[Senate Hearing 119-308]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 119-308

               HAUSTVEIT, LACERTE, AND PEARCE NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   TO

  CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF KYLE HAUSTVEIT TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF 
 ENERGY, DAVID LACERTE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY 
  COMMISSION (REAPPOINTMENT), AND STEVAN PEARCE TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 
                       BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 25, 2026

                               __________
                               
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                               


                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________
                               
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-945                     WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
       
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director
    Chris Prandoni, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director
                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Barrasso, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from Wyoming.................     1
Lummis, Hon. Cynthia M., a U.S. Senator from Wyoming.............     1
Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota..............     3
Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     4
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from New 
  Mexico.........................................................     5

                               WITNESSES

Haustveit, Hon. Kyle, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy..     8
LaCerte, Hon. David, nominated to be a Member of the Federal 
  Energy Regulatory Commission (Reappointment)...................    13
Pearce, Hon. Stevan, nominated to be Director of the Bureau of 
  Land Management................................................    18

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

American Exploration and Mining Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................    52
American Exploration and Production Council et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    54
Arevia Power:
    Letter for the Record........................................    57
Barrasso, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Bearden, Thomas E.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   104
Bowen, Bo:
    Letter for the Record........................................   106
Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation:
    Letter for the Record........................................    59
Dairy Farmers of America:
    Letter for the Record........................................    61
Family Farm Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................    62
Fernandez, Daniel:
    Letter for the Record........................................   107
Fuller, Eric:
    Letter for the Record........................................   110
Fuller, Kathy:
    Letter for the Record........................................   111
Greater Yellowstone Coalition:
    Letter for the Record........................................   155
Harvey, E.P.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   112
Haustveit, Hon. Kyle:
    Opening Statement............................................     8
    Written Testimony............................................    10
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    83
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
    Opening Statement............................................     5
Hoeven, Hon. John:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
Huff, Fred D.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   113
Huff, Lynda M.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   114
Independent Petroleum Association of New Mexico:
    Letter for the Record........................................   138
Jalapeno Corporation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   115
Koerper, Joe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   109
LaCerte, Hon. David:
    Opening Statement............................................    13
    Written Testimony............................................    15
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    90
Lee, Hon. Mike:
    Opening Statement............................................     4
Leyva, Miriam:
    Letter for the Record........................................   117
Lira, Christian:
    Letter for the Record........................................   118
Lummis, Hon. Cynthia M.:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Lunsford, Douglas L.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   119
McClure, Cassie et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   143
Merrion Oil and Gas:
    Letter for the Record........................................    64
Mesilla Valley Transportation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   116
Morgan, Robin:
    Letter for the Record........................................   121
Moutray, Gil:
    Letter for the Record........................................   135
National Mining Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................    66
National Parks Conservation Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   146
National Stone, Sand, and Gravel Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   125
New Mexico Association of Conservation Districts:
    Letter for the Record........................................    69
New Mexico Cattle Growers' Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................    70
New Mexico Federal Lands Council:
    Letter for the Record dated January 26, 2026.................    72
    Letter for the Record dated March 3, 2026....................   122
New Mexico Oil and Gas Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................    73
Noble, Jim:
    Letter for the Record........................................   123
Nygren, Buu:
    Letter for the Record........................................    68
Pearce, Hon. Stevan:
    Opening Statement............................................    18
    Written Testimony............................................    20
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    97
Pueblo de San Ildefonso:
    Letter for the Record........................................    74
Rio Grande Foundation:
    Letter for the Record........................................    75
Salinas, Daniel:
    Letter for the Record........................................   127
Sanborn Map Company:
    Letter for the Record........................................   129
Scherer, Joan:
    Letter for the Record........................................   130
Sharer, William et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   132
Specialty Equipment Market Association and Off-Road Business 
  Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   140
Terrazas, Luis M.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    77
350 PDX et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   148
Thurston, Ken:
    Letter for the Record........................................   108
Townsend, Ross:
    Letter for the Record........................................   134
Western Energy Alliance et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    78
Western Peanut Growers Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................    80
White, Jan:
    Letter for the Record........................................   136
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
    Letter from Congressmen Rob Bishop and Stevan Pearce 
      addressed to House Speaker John Boehner, dated November 26, 
      2012.......................................................    29

 
                        HAUSTVEIT, LACERTE, AND
                           PEARCE NOMINATIONS

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 2026

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:39 a.m. in Room 
SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso, 
presiding.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Barrasso. The Committee will come to order. Senator 
Lee will be here momentarily. Good morning. Welcome to all of 
you.
    Today, we will hear from three exceptional Americans 
nominated for senior positions in the administration, one for 
each of the three agencies under this Committee's jurisdiction. 
The nominees are the Assistant Secretary of Energy, Kyle 
Haustveit, to be the Under Secretary of Energy for the 
Department of Energy; Commissioner David LaCerte, renominated 
to another term as Commissioner for the Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission; and Congressman Steve Pearce, to be the 
Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of 
the Interior. I want to thank President Trump for sending all 
of these qualified nominees.
    We do have Senator Lummis here, who is going to make an 
introductory statement for former Congressman Steve Pearce, and 
we are so delighted to have you. I know you are on a tight 
schedule, so we will, in the interest of time, turn directly to 
you, Senator Lummis.
    Senator King. Will we have a chance for questions, Mr. 
Chairman?
    Senator Barrasso. Out of order.
    [Laughter.]

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM WYOMING

    Senator Lummis. Well, thank you kindly to my dear colleague 
from Wyoming, Senator John Barrasso, and thank you Committee 
for allowing me to introduce to you my friend and former 
colleague, Steve Pearce, as nominee for Director of the Bureau 
of Land Management. And I will tell you, absolutely, without a 
doubt, there is just no better person for this job than Steve 
Pearce.
    Steve and I served together in the U.S. House of 
Representatives. We worked side by side on natural resource 
issues that are vital to our western states. And I got to see 
firsthand how he operates. He fights for his constituents. He 
listens to his constituents. He is one of those rare 
Republicans who served in a bright blue state, and the way he 
got elected was by constantly going and listening to his 
constituents, not just showing up during election years, but 
showing up every weekend for family events in the communities 
that he represented. And it was such a unique way that he had 
secret sauce in his district that it was even featured in the 
Wall Street Journal, how he got elected. He is very attuned to 
the people he represents. He fights for his constituents. When 
New Mexicans needed people in their corner, he showed up every 
time.
    So, after decades of serving the people of New Mexico, 
Steve came away from this town with an understanding that a lot 
of people lack, and that's how the decisions that are made here 
work on the ground, how they land in ranching communities, 
energy producing counties, tribal nations, and rural economies. 
He doesn't see the Bureau of Land Management as a line item in 
the federal budget, he sees it as boots on the ground in 
communities that depend on how their land is managed. You know, 
over time, it's getting to be that fewer and fewer people even 
know what BLM stands for. One night, I was watching TV, and 
they said, okay, our next guest is the head of the BLM. And I 
thought, oh my gosh, we are making news. Little did I know that 
the next person to be on the screen was the head of Black Lives 
Matter. And I never thought about them as acronyms that 
represented such different things to such a different audience. 
And that's why it's so important to have someone at the helm at 
the BLM who really understands the boots on the ground, the 
difference between BLM land and National Park Service land and 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service land. Very different purposes 
for our wilderness areas than our BLM lands, very different 
applications of things like FLPMA, that passed in the mid-70s. 
And right now, you are facing a nominee who understands those 
differences and is truly capable of implementing the law the 
way it was designed.
    And while Steve Pearce is a fighter, I can also tell you he 
is genuinely kind and thoughtful. We used to sit next to each 
other on the floor of the House. We both have a love of the 
Taos Society of Artists. And one day, I looked over and he was 
flipping through the artist that he and I both love and share 
and collect, and it became one of those wonderful relationships 
you have with another member, who has an interest outside of 
the immediacy of what we deal with. It was such fun because so 
many of the things depicted by those artists are the land, the 
scenery, the sky, the water, the air that is subsumed on our 
BLM lands. So, we have shared many memories in our time in the 
House.
    I love his dry sense of humor. It gives a lighter air to 
the contention of our jobs. And when things got tough, he'd 
keep showing up. He doesn't turn away from those uncomfortable 
dialogues. He keeps listening. And he found ways to work across 
the aisle to get things done. That is exactly the kind of 
leadership BLM needs. Steve holds a core belief that I share--
the people who live and work on our western lands know better 
than the people here in Washington what they need and how we 
can be stewards of those lands.
    He believes strongly in respecting states and listening to 
local expertise. He knows that Washington should partner with--
not dictate to--western communities. He knows responsible 
economic development can transform communities and lift 
families while preserving these magnificent landscapes that we 
represent. You know, there is just no one better to head the 
Bureau of Land Management. Steve Pearce has the experience, the 
vision, the tenacity, and the heart. This is a man with the 
heart to do this job well. So, I strongly support his 
nomination and I urge my colleagues to confirm him.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you so much.
    The Chairman [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Lummis.
    We are now going to turn to Senator Hoeven, and after that 
Senator Heinrich and I will give our respective opening 
statements, and we will proceed from there.
    Senator Hoeven.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN, 
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA

    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to both 
you and Ranking Member Heinrich, I appreciate you holding the 
hearing today, and I appreciate this opportunity to welcome 
Kyle Haustveit back in front of this Committee. And it wasn't 
that long ago you were here, and you are back, for very good 
reasons, with, I think, just a great decision by President 
Trump to nominate you for this new role at the Department of 
Energy.
    Kyle has served at the DOE with distinction. He was the 
Assistant Secretary for Hydrocarbons and Geothermal Energy and 
doing a great job in that role. And we have worked closely with 
him, so I know that firsthand. His background in energy is 
diverse, whether it's fossil fuels, but all types of energy, it 
really is impressive. And now, he is nominated for the Under 
Secretary for Energy slot, the third-ranking position in the 
Department of Energy, and does a great job in that role, along 
with Chris Wright, who also, I know personally and has done a 
fantastic job and James Danly, who we all know from his time at 
the FERC. So, just an outstanding team leading the Department 
of Energy.
    Also, welcome and congratulations to Brea, his wife, and 
their four children, I think--I see three. I am missing one, 
but oh, yes, my gosh, she is a young lady. I missed that. Are 
you Nevaeh? Am I saying that right?
    Nevaeh: Nevaeh.
    Senator Hoeven. Nevaeh. Well, welcome to you. I bet you're 
a good babysitter for the other three. I'm just guessing. Yeah. 
Harper, Noah, and Hudson. So, welcome to all you guys.
    Hudson, what happened to your wrist? Huh? You playing some 
sports? Oh, okay. I know how that goes.
    Brea is from Kenmare, so that's not too far from where I 
grew up northwest of Minot there. So, you have a beautiful 
family. And I guess you better--Kyle, you've got to be on your 
game, man, because it sounds like the parents are watching 
remotely--your parents, Tom and Donna, and grandparents, Dewey 
and Phyllis. So, you are going to really have to be on your 
game today, man. But again, congratulations to them as well. 
Born in Fargo--we love that. And raised in Tioga. So, again, 
another person from Northwest North Dakota, like myself and 
your wife, and grew up living the energy economy in the 
Williston Basin. So, I mean, it's in his blood. A third-
generation energy worker, petroleum engineer by training, but 
innovator and a problem solver. Co-invented a patent in 
hydraulic fracturing, a technique that's now used across 
multiple shale basins, and technology that, as both the 
Chairman and Ranking Member know, of that incredible unlocking 
of energy from shale across the nation, both oil and natural 
gas.
    And we have been working on what we call in North Dakota 
``Crack the Code 2.0.'' So Crack the Code 1.0 was when we 
figured out how to produce oil and gas out of shale 
economically. Obviously, we knew we could do it from a 
technological standpoint for years, but the key was making it 
commercially viable. And we worked on that, actually back 
during my days as Governor in that 2000-timeframe. And of 
course, with directional drilling and hydraulic fracturing now, 
you know, we have unlocked the shale plays, not only in the 
Bakken, but in Texas, the Permian Basin, and the Eagle Ford and 
in New Mexico in a big way, and of course, the Marcellus up in 
this part of the country. So, it has absolutely been a 
revolution in terms of energy for the country. Now, Crack the 
Code 2.0 is using enhanced oil recovery to double that 
production. And we are going to do it, even, Cynthia, in places 
like Wyoming, if you can imagine that. It's a big deal.
    Senator Lummis. It's a big deal.
    Senator Hoeven. And Kyle understands this at the level that 
is going to enable us to crack that code a second time, and it 
has huge ramifications for our country. And that's why it's so 
important he has been nominated for this position of leadership 
at the Department of Energy. So, with that, again, thank you, 
Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member for the opportunity to 
introduce Kyle Haustveit.
    The Chairman. Thanks so much, Senator Hoeven, and thank you 
Senator Lummis, for joining us. We will go ahead and have the 
witnesses make their way to the table now, but before we start 
with you, go ahead and have a seat now. Senator Heinrich and I 
will now give our respective opening statements.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, 
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

    The Chairman. Today's nominees have been nominated to 
positions that have a lot of challenges before them, and they 
will face monumental tasks and stakes that go beyond the 
responsibilities and the duties of just any one agency. They go 
to a basic question: Can the United States govern its resources 
in a way that is capable of meeting the moment? Electricity 
demand is rising at a pace that we haven't seen in decades. 
Data centers, advanced computing, and the return of domestic 
manufacturing are pushing our grid to its limits. Wide 
stretches of the American West are under federal management, 
and decisions made in Washington can make or break the 
communities that surround those lands.
    Our foreign adversaries recognize the implications that are 
at play. They are expanding their production and strengthening 
their control over mineral supply chains. In past years, we 
watched the Biden regime partner with the progressive 
environmental lobby to willfully ignore some of those realities 
and instead layer 
on rules holding American-made energy hostage for unrealistic, 
unachievable environmental objectives. Domestic energy 
production was blocked at every turn. We became dangerously 
reliant on foreign supply chains from adversarial countries 
that are not, to say the least, all that interested in seeing 
America succeed. Rather than treating American energy and 
mineral resources as strategic assets, they instead treated 
them as liabilities to be phased out and to be kept in the 
ground in perpetuity. We saw a governing philosophy that 
ignored the people most directly affected by their decisions. 
Local officials, county commissioners, tribal leaders, and 
small businesses showed up, offered their expertise, and then 
watched painfully as the final outcome bore little resemblance 
to what they put on the record. That approach deepened distrust 
and deeply damaged the relationship between Washington and 
communities throughout America that were forced to live with 
consequences made hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away.
    Each of you, if confirmed for the position for which you 
have been nominated, each of you will have tasks before you 
that involve reversing that course. At the Bureau of Land 
Management, that means administering some 245 million acres of 
public land and 700 million acres of mineral estate under 
multiple-use and sustained-yield mandates that have been 
outlined over the years by law, by Congress. And at the 
Department of Energy, that means overseeing the office's 
responsibility for electricity, nuclear energy, hydrocarbons, 
geothermal, cybersecurity, the strategic petroleum reserve, and 
the emergency grid authorities Congress has provided under the 
Federal Power Act. And at FERC, it means exercising regulatory 
judgment over interstate transmission, wholesale markets, 
natural gas infrastructure, and the orders that shape 
investment across our entire economy.
    What matters now is how that authority will be exercised. 
Will America's resources be developed here at home or will we 
be forced to rely on foreign competitors? Will communities have 
a genuine seat at the table or will they simply be notified 
after the fact that their concerns have been disregarded? I 
look forward to hearing from each of you on how you will intend 
to carry out the duties and the responsibilities of the 
respective offices to which you have been nominated. Thank you.
    And the Chair now recognizes Senator Heinrich, the Ranking 
Member of this Committee.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    The Committee has previously considered nominations for two 
of the nominees before us this morning. The Senate confirmed 
Mr. Haustveit's nomination to be the Assistant Secretary of 
Energy for Fossil Energy last September and Mr. LaCerte's 
nomination to serve the final year remaining on a vacant seat 
on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. But the Committee 
still has an obligation to examine Mr. Haustveit's 
qualifications for the broader responsibilities that he will 
have, if confirmed, to be the Under Secretary of Energy, and we 
must consider whether Mr. LaCerte has earned an additional 
five-year term on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
    Our third nominee poses a somewhat greater challenge for 
us. Congressman Pearce, who I have long-known and often worked 
with, has been nominated to be the Director of the Bureau of 
Land Management. If confirmed, he will become the steward of 
more than 244 million surface acres of public land and another 
700 million acres of subsurface minerals. The Federal Land 
Policy and Management Act, the law that established the Bureau 
of Land Management, prescribes how the Director is to perform 
his important duties. It says that he is to manage the lands 
and resources under his jurisdiction as public lands. They 
belong to the public, not to any special interest, but to the 
American people as a whole, and not to our generation alone, 
but to future generations as well. The Public Lands Charter 
calls for them to be managed for fish and wildlife as well as 
for energy and mineral production, for recreation as well as 
resource development. Their value is to be measured not in 
economic returns or unit output alone, but also in the 
intangibles of scenic, scientific, historic, and archeological 
values.
    A friend of mine likes to describe public lands as the 
anvil on which our collective western identity was forged. I 
think that kind of sums it up. The Federal Land Policy and 
Management Act says that our public lands are to be retained in 
federal ownership and managed to best meet the present and 
future needs of the American people, and where appropriate, 
preserved and protected in their natural condition without 
permanent impairment. The Act tells us that the Director must 
be someone who will carry out these functions and perform these 
duties in accordance with these principles. Congressman Pearce 
has had a long career in public life, and he is well-known to 
many of us. He has served seven terms in the House of 
Representatives and three terms as the head of the Republican 
Party in my home State of New Mexico. As a public official, he 
has cast many votes and made many public statements. In some of 
the positions that he has taken, he called for the selling off 
of public lands. That makes it challenging for me to view his 
tenure--his potential tenure at the BLM--as one of stewardship.
    And so, my questions today will largely reflect not just 
those reservations, but the conversations that we had in my 
office yesterday, Congressman. And it is, of course, the 
President's prerogative to nominate who he wants, but it is 
also the responsibility of those of us on this Committee to 
assess Mr. Pearce's nomination and to recommend whether or not 
the Senate should confirm him. For much of our nation's 
history, our predecessor committee proudly bore the title ``The 
Public Lands Committee.'' Oversight of the public lands was our 
original purpose, and it remains one of our foremost 
responsibilities. To discharge this trust, we depend heavily on 
the dedicated public servants at the Bureau of Land Management, 
who devote their careers and their lives to the care of our 
public lands, and we depend on the Director of the Bureau to 
carry out the functions of his office in accordance with our 
laws and with FLPMA. Our hearing today is Congressman Pearce's 
opportunity to make his case for his nomination and to share 
his vision of how he would manage the public lands, if 
confirmed, and to allay our concerns. I look forward to hearing 
from him.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Heinrich.
    Okay, our first witness today will be the honorable Kyle 
Haustveit of North Dakota, nominated to be the Under Secretary 
of Energy. That's the third highest ranking officer in the 
Department of Energy, with broad jurisdiction over many offices 
and programs at the Department of Energy. He currently serves 
as the Assistant Secretary of Energy for Hydrocarbons and 
Geothermal Energy, a position to which the Senate confirmed him 
last year. And in that position, he currently already plays a 
leading role in investing in resource development and 
implementation of fossil-fuel-derived projects and 
strengthening American energy dominance in critical mineral 
supply. Prior to his current service, Mr. Haustveit worked on 
energy issues in the private sector, and he's a graduate of 
Montana Technical University and the University of Oklahoma.
    Our second witness today is the honorable David LaCerte of 
Louisiana, renominated to his current position as Commissioner 
of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. FERC, of course, 
is charged with developing electricity and natural gas at 
reasonable prices and has jurisdiction over interstate 
electricity transmission and wholesale electricity sales, as 
well as interstate transportation and sales of natural gas, in 
addition to regulating hydroelectric facilities. Mr. LaCerte is 
also no stranger to this Committee, as he, too, was confirmed 
to his current post by this Committee and by the Senate just a 
few months ago. He's got a distinguished career at both the 
federal and state levels in government in addition to his 
deployment as a United States Marine in Afghanistan. Mr. 
LaCerte is a lawyer. He served as a lawyer, among other things, 
at Baker Botts and graduated from Nicholls State University and 
Louisiana State University.
    Our final witness today is, of course, the honorable Stevan 
Pearce of New Mexico, nominated to be the Director of the U.S. 
Bureau of Land Management (BLM) within the Department of the 
Interior. Congressman Pearce has a long record of public 
service, representing New Mexico's Second Congressional 
District in the House of Representatives for 14 years. Prior to 
that, he served in the New Mexico State Legislature. He also 
served as a pilot in the Air Force during Vietnam, where he was 
decorated for his actions during combat missions. He is a 
graduate of New Mexico State University and Eastern New Mexico 
University. His service as an elected official from a western 
state provides him with the necessary experience and expertise 
to run BLM.
    Before the witnesses begin their testimony, I will swear 
them in. So, if each of you will please stand and raise your 
right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are 
about to give to the Committee will be the truth, the whole 
truth, and nothing but the truth?
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    The Chairman. Let the record reflect that each witness 
responded in the affirmative.
    You may be seated.
    Also, it is the Committee's practice to ask the following 
three questions of all nominees who appear before us for 
confirmation.
    First, will you be available to appear before this 
committee and other congressional committees to represent the 
positions of your agency and respond to issues of concern to 
Congress?
    Mr. Haustveit. Yes.
    Mr. LaCerte. Yes.
    Mr. Pearce. Yes.
    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the 
affirmative.
    Second, are you aware of any personal holdings, 
investments, or interests that could constitute a conflict of 
interest, or create the appearance of such a conflict of 
interest, should you be confirmed and assume the office to 
which you have been nominated?
    Mr. Haustveit. No.
    Mr. LaCerte. No.
    Mr. Pearce. No.
    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the 
negative.
    And third, are you involved in or do you have any assets in 
a blind trust?
    Mr. Haustveit. No.
    Mr. LaCerte. No.
    Mr. Pearce. No.
    The Chairman. All three witnesses responded in the 
negative.
    With that, I will now invite each of the nominees to offer 
their opening statements and to introduce their guests with 
them, if they choose to do so. We will begin with Secretary 
Haustveit.

                 STATEMENT OF KYLE HAUSTVEIT, 
           NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY

    Mr. Haustveit. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to appear before you today. I am deeply honored to 
be considered for the role of Under Secretary of Energy at the 
U.S. Department of Energy. I want to express my sincere 
gratitude to President Trump for my nomination and to Energy 
Secretary Wright for his support. Thank you to Senator Hoeven 
for the kind introduction. Thank you to my family and friends 
here with me today and those watching online. Here with me is 
my high school sweetheart, best friend, and wife, Brea, our 
four children, Nevaeh, Harper, Noah, and Hudson, along with 
several close friends. Thank you all for your love and support. 
I want to give thanks to my lord and savior Jesus Christ for 
his grace and guidance in this journey.
    I was born and raised in North Dakota, just a few miles 
from the historic Williston Basin discovery well. My family's 
roots run deep in both energy and agriculture. One grandfather 
managed drilling operations while the other farmed our family 
homestead, where he and my grandma still live today. Growing 
up, I developed a profound appreciation for both industries, 
and the critical role energy plays in modern agriculture, from 
fueling tractors to providing the fertilizers that nourish our 
crops. I am proud to say that I am a third-generation energy 
worker. My family's connection to energy spans decades, and 
their hard work instilled in me a deep respect for the industry 
and its importance to our nation.
    With a small nudge from my late grandfather, I pursued a 
degree in petroleum engineering at Montana Tech, followed by an 
MBA in energy from the University of Oklahoma. This combination 
of engineering and economic study has been instrumental in 
shaping my career and preparing me to address the challenges 
and opportunities in the energy sector. Early in my career, I 
was fortunate to lead a team that invented and commercialized a 
diagnostic technique now used globally to optimize hydraulic 
fracturing and resource development. This experience sparked a 
growing passion for energy and technology, which led me to 
leading an Energy Ventures team. In this role, our team had the 
privilege of investing in early-stage technologies rooted in 
fundamental science, including a leading next-generation 
geothermal company with operations in Nevada, and a 500-
megawatt development underway in Utah. Our team also conducted 
technical evaluations for innovative projects, such as a direct 
lithium extraction from brine in Arkansas and California, 
carbon capture utilization and sequestration in Wyoming, and 
produced water treatment and beneficial reuse in New Mexico. 
These experiences have given me a front-row seat to the 
incredible innovation happening in our energy industry across 
our resource-rich nation.
    I have been blessed to build my career during one of the 
most transformative periods in energy history--the shale 
revolution. The shale revolution was brought about by industry 
and enabled in part from fundamental research from our 
tremendous national laboratories. This technological 
breakthrough moved the U.S. from the world's largest importer 
of LNG to the world's largest exporter, positioning us as the 
global leader in oil and natural gas production, transforming 
us from energy dependent to energy dominant. The energy 
industry has not only powered our nation, but it has also 
fueled economic growth, strengthened national security, and 
improved the quality of life for millions of Americans and our 
allies around the world. U.S. natural gas has delivered 
affordable, reliable, and secure energy, and at the same time, 
reduced the emissions from electricity generation by more than 
40 percent.
    It has been a privilege to contribute to this progress, and 
I am passionately aligned with President Trump's common-sense 
energy agenda, an agenda that will ensure that future 
generations have access to affordable, reliable, secure, and 
abundant energy made in America. If confirmed, I will honor the 
fundamentals of science and economics to serve our country. I 
am committed to advancing policies that unleash U.S. energy 
dominance, foster innovation, and ensure that America remains a 
global leader in energy production and technology. If 
confirmed, I will work to leverage the incredible talents 
within DOE and our national laboratories to drive forward 
cutting-edge research and development. It's an honor of a 
lifetime to contribute to the mission of the President and the 
Secretary to fuel peace and prosperity through energy. Thank 
you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Haustveit follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    The Chairman. Thank you, Assistant Secretary Haustveit.
    Commissioner LaCerte.

  STATEMENT OF DAVID LACERTE, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE 
      FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION (REAPPOINTMENT)

    Mr. LaCerte. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and 
distinguished members of the Committee, good morning. I am 
grateful for the opportunity to appear before you again today. 
Thank you to President Trump for renominating me to serve a 
full term on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, and 
thank you to this Committee for your time. Thank you to my 
family, who are at home today in Louisiana. Public service can 
be a tremendous burden, and this burden disproportionately 
falls not only on the appointee, but on their loved ones. Thank 
you for the grace you continue to give me while I serve the 
American people.
    I would like to briefly speak to our accomplishments since 
I have been seated at FERC, my commitments made to you in the 
fall, and address what you can expect to see from me if I am 
given the honor of serving a full term as Commissioner. At my 
first open meeting, we proposed rulemakings to expand the 
successful pipeline certification program for both 
hydroelectric and liquefied natural gas facilities. We 
prioritized cutting red tape, advancing stalled projects, and 
ensuring that permits are issued in a timely and legally 
defensible manner. I want to pause on LNG for a moment. 
Utilizing our vast natural resources is not just an economic 
advantage, it's a geopolitical necessity that ensures our 
allies are fueled by reliable American energy rather than the 
coercion of our adversaries. Critical to this goal was 
maintaining and developing a robust export infrastructure here 
in the U.S., a mission-critical task that I am focused on 
achieving. I have also been very vocal about the need to 
declutter the Commission's dockets. Proceedings that linger for 
years serve no one. They create uncertainty for investors, 
delay critical infrastructure, and erode confidence in the 
regulatory process.
    Since my first month, I have supported action to remove 
outdated regulations and issue timely orders, and I will 
continue striving for more efficient and disciplined processes 
at FERC. In our second month, we demonstrated our commitment to 
powering America's leadership in artificial intelligence and 
advanced technologies while protecting ratepayers. This may be 
the defining competitive challenge of our generation. If we are 
not the world's leader in AI, our adversaries surely will be. 
We need to meet this moment, and we will do so without 
sacrificing affordability. In December, we issued an order 
addressing service to large load--including data centers--co-
located with generating facilities, through revisions to PJM's 
Tariff. I recognize this represents a first step in a very long 
road, but I am proud of the decisive action the Commission 
took.
    At a time when energy demand is rising and reliability 
challenges are mounting, the Commission has acted with focus, 
efficiency, and disciplined urgency. Year-to-date, we have 
already issued 18 percent more orders over the same time period 
in 2025. Since I have joined the Commission, we have voted in 
nearly 300 proceedings and authorized the addition of 4.14 
million dekatherms of natural gas transportation capacity, 
enough to support the electricity needs of 13 to 18 million 
American households. That pace will accelerate as we remove 
distractions and focus on what matters within our statutory 
jurisdiction. By narrowly focusing on that jurisdiction, we are 
building, we are advancing, and we are strengthening energy 
security for our nation.
    I made commitments to these Senators across the aisle about 
how I would approach this work, and I welcome accountability 
for those commitments. From my first open meeting, I stated 
plainly, my duty is to the ratepayer. There are always people 
looking to curry favor for one project or one industry. And I 
meant what I said: none of those people represent the 
ratepayer. I do. My commitment to the ratepayer has not 
wavered, and this commitment will not relent for as long as I 
have the privilege to serve.
    On affordability and reliability, I am fully all-in. Growth 
must not come at the expense of ordinary Americans already 
concerned about their energy bills. It is our duty as 
Commissioners to fully protect ratepayers from undue costs, and 
to power American industry for load growth and re-
industrialization. We can do both and we must do both. In the 
fall, this body asked me to commit to resource neutrality as 
required by the law. I have demonstrated that commitment and I 
will continue to do so. This body also asked me to commit to 
upholding FERC's independence. I will always uphold that 
commitment. The value of this Commission to markets, to 
investors, and to the American public depends on its 
credibility as an independent decision-making and rate-setting 
body. FERC's decisions are subject to judicial review by the 
courts, and I will ensure those decisions are respected and 
carried out in the interest of the people and in accordance 
with the law.
    Will I continue to seek input from all stakeholders? 
Absolutely. Sound decisions require broad engagement, but 
consultation does not compromise independence. My duty is to 
the law and to the statutory responsibilities entrusted to the 
Commission. We have several monumental challenges facing our 
grid, any of which would be generational in nature. I am 
confident that we can empower American innovation to see us 
through these challenges to the more efficient, more powerful, 
and more affordable grid of tomorrow.
    Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCerte follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thanks, Commissioner.
    We will hear now from Congressman Pearce.

  STATEMENT OF STEVAN PEARCE, NOMINATED TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 
                   BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT

    Mr. Pearce. Good morning and thank you, Chairman Lee and 
Ranking Member Heinrich for your leadership on this Committee. 
I am deeply grateful for the support of my family and friends 
who are with us today or watching on C-Span. I especially want 
to recognize my strong and amazing wife, Cynthia, our daughter 
Lori, our grandson Preston, his wife Erin, our granddaughter 
Olivia, and my brother, Greg. I am honored to be nominated by 
President Trump to serve as the Director of the Bureau of Land 
Management. Growing up in a large family on a small five-acre 
farm--a New Mexico farm--the concept of preserving and 
conserving the land and water was instilled in me through 
necessity and it was refined by the training I received in 4-H.
    During my years at New Mexico State University, I worked 
every holiday and summer in the oil fields to pay for college. 
In my junior year, I won the draft lottery and got free flying 
lessons and an all-expense paid trip to Vietnam. After 
graduation, I went straight to USAF pilot training, then my 
first assignment was flying combat missions in Vietnam in 1971, 
1972, and 1973, where I earned the Distinguished Flying Cross 
and multiple Air Medals and developed a love for veterans and 
aviation that exists today still. In 2016, while still a Member 
of Congress, I flew my single-engine, 4-seat Mooney aircraft, 
solo, circumnavigating the globe in 15 days, dedicating the 
effort to the warriors who never made it home. I continue to 
fly and work for veterans today.
    When I got back from Vietnam, I experienced the healing 
serenity of backpacking in wilderness areas across the country. 
In 1981, I married my wife, Cynthia, and together we bought a 
small, struggling oil field service business, and for 14 years, 
I learned the art of repairing problem oil wells. We were 
basically plumbers working 5,000 feet deep. Running a small 
business fit well with the values with which I was raised--work 
hard, treat others fairly, provide good customer service. We 
sold the business in 2003. I served seven terms representing 
the 2nd District of New Mexico, a majority-minority district, 
which was 34 percent registered Republicans. The district was 
70,000 square miles--larger than the State of Florida--with 
about one-third of the state being federal land. The 2nd 
district provided many examples of what multiple use means. 
Hunting and access and outdoor sports are drivers of one local 
economy. In another area, oil and gas provide the jobs, and yet 
another has national parks and monuments. The district had 
mining, grazing, forests, wildfires, wilderness areas, and was 
home to Native American pueblos, tribes and chapter houses.
    Much of my life is a life of service, and I am proud of 
that. During my 14 years as a Congressman, I traveled the 
district extensively, seeing firsthand the problems faced by my 
constituents, who, like my parents, work hard every day trying 
to provide for their families. I also saw what the Founding 
Fathers feared--a Federal Government acting as an absentee 
landlord, which, instead of partnering with states and local 
communities, rules over them. After a devastating wildfire, the 
Forest Service assigned local ranchers in my district to 
grazing lands as far away as Wyoming. The cost of trucking 
cattle that distance would have led to the extinction of small 
ranchers and collapse of the local economy. My staff identified 
nearby allotments that had not been grazed for years and 
lobbied the Forest Service to open those. The agency initially 
stood its ground but ultimately could not dispute the facts. 
The ranchers and the local economy survived. I was gratified to 
include funding in an early appropriations process to clean out 
the sediment threatening the health of the Blue Hole of Santa 
Rosa, a popular recreational spring in the New Mexico desert. 
We got word shortly after that the agency had repurposed these 
funds. I am proud of my efforts to claw the funds back to clean 
out the spring for future generations.
    These examples show my distinct dedication to working with 
local stakeholders and the Federal Government to ensure our 
land managers are making decisions based on local input and in 
accordance with the law. If confirmed, I fully intend to uphold 
these same principles as BLM Director and ensure local input is 
a key factor in my decision-making. I have also seen firsthand 
the importance of our public lands and support those missions 
completely. I met many of the dedicated public servants who 
make the federal agencies work, and together we accomplished 
amazing things. When the lesser prairie chicken was at risk of 
being listed as endangered, my office worked with all the 
stakeholders to establish a voluntary process to increase 
habitat and prevent a listing. I believe that we can duplicate 
those efforts to solve not only endangered species, but 
orphaned wells, abandoned mines, and many issues, including 
providing clean and plentiful water.
    President Trump has proven we can achieve his vision of 
energy dominance while providing clean air, water, and soil. We 
must preserve the natural spaces so that all people have access 
to the spiritual beauty of the outdoors, where hunting and 
fishing can be passed down from one generation to the next, 
where critical minerals can be developed, freeing us from 
dependence on China, and Native American lands and resources 
can be protected. The security and economic health of the 
country, especially the western states, rests squarely on the 
shoulders of the BLM. We can and must balance the different 
uses of public lands. Local economies and future generations 
depend on us doing our job right. Thank you, and I look forward 
to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pearce follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    We will now begin our five-minute rounds of questions, 
alternating between Republicans and Democrats in order of 
seniority, subject to the early-bird rule, and we will begin 
that now.
    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, let's start with you. My 
state, the State of Utah, has enormous geothermal potential, 
and the office that you currently lead at the Department of 
Energy funds geothermal research and development. Can you talk 
about some of the exciting work that has been going on in that 
office, the one that you currently lead, when it comes to 
developing and commercializing geothermal power at scale?
    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.
    To start with, we share oftentimes that the problem 
statement for geothermal today is identical to that of the 
shale revolution 25 years ago. We have a vast resource in place 
that lacks the natural permeability to produce at commercial 
rates. That was the same problem statement for oil and gas 25 
years ago. We solved that with horizontal wells and multi-stage 
stimulation. It's the same problem statement for geothermal 
today. And one of the methods to extract that resource is with 
horizontal wells and multi-stage hydraulic fracturing. A 
project in your home state, FORGE, funded by the Department of 
Energy, was groundbreaking. It provided critical drilling 
information, which led to commercial leasing and now active 
development of a 500-megawatt resource in Southwest Utah. Along 
with that, just this morning, we announced the Department's 
largest-ever funding opportunity for geothermal, $171.5 
million, focused on reservoir characterization and pilot-scale 
demonstrations.
    On the resource characterization, what's important about 
that is, the western part of the country is not as well 
explored as many of the shale basins. The shale basins had a 
benefit because most conventional basins exist on top of an 
unconventional shale. So, we have drilled through these 
resources for over 100 years, and with that, we have logged it 
and we can map it. We lack that information in the subsurface 
in the West. And that's part of the reason that one of our 
topic areas is to do exactly that--help support the industry 
and de-risk in the resource of finding more hot rock that we 
develop commercially. Our goal is to take geothermal out of the 
other bucket. When you look at the energy stack, you see this 
sliver of energy that sits on top of all the other primary 
energy sources. Our goal is to provide cost-competitive, 
gigawatt-scale power generation from the vast amounts of 
geothermal resource in the United States.
    The Chairman. So, your hope is that on those western lands 
that are not as well known, that haven't been as thoroughly 
explored, to help replicate some of that so as to create the 
information necessary that would lead to more lease sales and 
more utilization for geothermal.
    Mr. Haustveit. Yes, Senator, that's correct.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Commissioner LaCerte, natural gas is the backbone of the 
modern electrical grid in America. Without access to natural 
gas, without access to, you know, very plentiful supplies of 
natural gas at reasonable prices, there would have been 
widespread outages across the East Coast just during the most 
recent winter storm. We don't even have to go back more than a 
few days to cover that. Looking back at your first few months 
as a member of FERC, how has FERC moved the needle on clearing 
the backlog for natural gas pipelines and LNG facilities?
    Mr. LaCerte. That's a great question, Senator, thank you 
very much and thank you for acknowledging the work that natural 
gas has done to keep the lights on, keep homes warm, and quite 
frankly, save people's lives over the past several weeks as 
most of the country had gone into deep freeze, a really 
unprecedented deep freeze where gas has really done all of the 
heavy lifting. And at FERC, I think, you could see--I mentioned 
in my opening that we have approved more gas in the first four 
months during my tenure here than we have in quite a while. We 
are going to continue to keep that work and we are going to 
continue to right-size NEPA under Seven County. We are going to 
continue to hold our states to the fire and then make sure they 
are making smart, right decisions for a lot of generation 
siting, and quite frankly, we need to focus more on natural gas 
as the reliable, clean energy source that it is.
    And you're right, you can see moving up and down the East 
Coast, the areas that have an abundant supply of natural gas 
through our pipelines faired much better than the areas that 
did not. So, we think that we are very blessed geologically in 
our country to employ these molecules, to put them to work, and 
we need to do a better job of that across the board.
    The Chairman. With those pipelines, I completely agree, the 
pipeline infrastructure is essential to that. What do you see 
as the biggest obstacles slowing that and threatening the 
progress on that front?
    Mr. LaCerte. Well, I think you see that here. I think we 
have struggled with the Clean Water Act certifications for 
quite a while. I personally do not believe that one state 
should be able to hold hostage a whole region of the country to 
accessing clean natural gas. That is an issue before you, and I 
look forward to Congress addressing that.
    The Chairman. Great. Thank you.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman. Welcome to all of 
you.
    Congressman, I am going to start with you, and when I 
looked at the constituent communication with respect to your 
nomination, there were two issues that dominated 90-plus 
percent of it. We discussed these yesterday. The first is the 
issue of the potential broad-scale divestment of public lands, 
and this is something that came up with Secretary Burgum in his 
nomination as well. And I think he did a good job of talking 
about how, while it may be completely appropriate to divest of 
certain isolated parcels of public land for affordable housing 
and other public purposes, that there wouldn't be a broad-scale 
selling off of the public lands. And because of some of your 
previous writings and statements, there is a concern among New 
Mexicans that a sale of public lands on a broader scale might 
be part of the new BLM agenda.
    Can you speak to that, and maybe allay some of those 
concerns?
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, and I appreciate the chance 
to talk about this. The Secretary has been very straightforward 
that he does not visualize any large-scale sales of land. FLPMA 
does not allow BLM to go in and the Director of BLM to have 
these large-scale sales. That's something that, frankly, the 
isolated parcels, I would look to members of this Committee to 
identify those. I think that, from my time in office, I know 
that I would have understood better than any Director of the 
BLM the sensitivity of this piece of land or that piece of 
land. And so, that's the reason I say I will look to you all on 
that. There is a monumental amount of work to be done. And 
again, I would say, gladly, I would use the help that you all 
could provide in identifying those parcels.
    But just to put it into context, when I first got to the 
state legislature, Los Alamos, or the home of the Los Alamos 
Labs, was trying to get five acres. And they've been trying, 
they said, for years. I don't know if that has even occurred 
today, but when it didn't occur then, the community was forced 
to move 20 miles down a mountain and form a community there 
where people could afford to live. And then, in the wintertime, 
we would lose two or three people who work at the labs every 
year off those snow covered passes. And it's that kind of 
restrictive holding that I think we are meant to address, but 
again.
    Senator Heinrich. That's where the focus should be.
    Mr. Pearce. I look to you all to provide that focus for the 
agency.
    Senator Heinrich. The other issue--and I have 
correspondence from a number of Las Cruces City Councilors, the 
Mayor of Mesilla, Dona Ana County Commissioners, and state 
representatives and senators in southern New Mexico, as well as 
soil and water conservation district members--is the issue of 
the future of the Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National 
Monument. I know there is a lot of water under the bridge on 
that issue between both of us, but what would you say to those 
elected officials in Dona Ana County about your approach with 
respect to the monument?
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, again, thanks for the opportunity to 
clarify that because that issue was very hotly contested in the 
county for about 15 years, and eventually it was designated by 
executive order. I very rarely look in the rear-view mirror, 
especially looking at this job and the amount of work ahead of 
us. I don't anticipate going back and reviewing that. At the 
end of the day, it's a presidential decision anyway, but I 
don't view myself as going and making a recommendation. There 
is too much ahead of us to get done to focus on things that 
have happened in the past. It has been recognized and 
operating.
    Senator Heinrich. I appreciate that very much.
    I also want to say how much I appreciate your interest in 
orphaned wells and abandoned mines. That's a place where I 
think we can really build some bipartisan support for that kind 
of work, and I look forward to continuing that conversation 
with you.
    I am going to switch now to Mr. Haustveit, and I am going 
to ask the same question that I asked your predecessor during 
his hearing about a year ago, and that is, would you agree that 
in this environment of increased demand, probably the most 
increased demand we have seen since the invention of the air 
conditioner, that we need an energy strategy that is focused on 
rapidly expanding production from all available sources, 
including things like renewables and storage?
    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.
    As we have seen in the last month or so, it's critical that 
we prioritize reliability. We have seen with the winter storm 
that when people need lights, they need heat, we need to make 
sure we have got the energy forms available to deploy on the 
grid. So, I believe in the best of the above. Not all energy is 
created equally, and not all energy types should be deployed 
across every different region of the U.S. and of the world. So, 
best of the above, prioritize reliability and affordability to 
make sure that we take care of American citizens.
    Senator Heinrich. Yes, and I would agree with you that 
reliability is non-negotiable. I will also point out that we 
have been able to develop a grid in New Mexico that is 
incredibly clean and more reliable than most in the country and 
yet also produces that energy at a price per kilowatt-hour that 
is a lot lower than many places around the country. And I hope 
that we can continue to see that kind of progress.
    Mr. Haustveit. I look forward to working together. Thank 
you.
    The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
    Senator Barrasso. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    And Congressman, great to see you again. I sure enjoyed 
working with you when you chaired the Congressional Western 
Caucus. Congratulations to all three of you. I would like to 
start with you though, because we worked together and we spoke 
yesterday in my office specifically about the BLM and the 
critical role it plays in the lifeblood of the economy of the 
State of Wyoming. When we had the nomination hearing in this 
room for Secretary Burgum, I asked him a series of questions 
about the BLM and things and decisions related to Wyoming, and 
I am going to ask you similar questions today about my home 
state.
    Specifically, we talked yesterday about the Rock Springs 
Resource Management Plan (RMP). We spoke in detail about it, 
and it was something that the last administration came out 
with, rejected any input from the State of Wyoming, accepted 
comments from around the world, including, apparently, some 
from bots from China and something that, clearly, the last 
administration was promoting, that locked up millions of acres 
of land that local communities in the entire state rely upon. 
The governor, the state legislature, the county commissioners, 
and the local communities all strongly opposed the plan. Will 
you commit to working with my office and to the State of 
Wyoming to amend what I believe was a disastrous plan?
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. I think that one of the 
more important elements of any plan is local input. Custom and 
culture is known by the people who live in an area, and very 
seldom known by the people in Washington, and that is a strong 
commitment I make.
    Senator Barrasso. Since you are talking about the people 
that live locally, I think we are very fortunate in Wyoming to 
have field offices for the Bureau of Land Management throughout 
our state. This allows the federal agency to better serve our 
rural communities, and many of these offices are located near 
the natural resources all across the state where they have 
oversight. The field offices are located in our more rural 
areas, directly near our agriculture and our energy interests 
and industries--Buffalo, Cody, Newcastle, Pinedale. I am 
hearing from local leaders who would like to make sure that 
there is certainty for the next few years, in terms of whether 
the field offices will stay in these communities. Would you be 
willing to commit to working with my office to ensure longevity 
for our Wyoming field offices?
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. And again, my county is 
now the highest oil producing county in the nation, and we 
recognize the importance of having a close-by office to where 
you can take questions to them and get answers. And so, I 
absolutely commit to work with you on that.
    Senator Barrasso. Great.
     Mr. LaCerte, earlier this month, you appeared at the House 
Energy and Commerce Committee hearing. In your testimony, you 
stated that a big part of permitting delay results from 
permitting decisions that take too long and the leveraging of 
judicial review to create uncertainty around project 
development. I mean, fear, uncertainty, and doubt are the 
things that stop things. Delay is no longer the currency it 
once was, and we frankly can't afford these types of delays. In 
your view, what are the biggest obstacles to a more stable and 
timely permitting process?
    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question. I think the 
Supreme Court went a long way in that with the unanimous 
decision in Seven County last year. I think the unanimous 
nature of their decision speaks to the bipartisan nature that 
NEPA has been running amok and had been used to block projects 
rather than to review projects. I think that's step one. I 
think step two is, we need to identify that the time is now to 
take action. I think that we have been sitting on a lot of 
projects for too long, whether that be in permitting, whether 
that be in interconnection, whether that be in siting. I think 
that we need to do a better job collaborating with our states 
to permit, site, and build more generation and do a better job 
of building and progressing interstate pipelines and doing all 
of the above. I think that we need to do everything better. So, 
narrowing it down to one issue, one fact pattern, I think, 
would be foolish.
    Senator Barrasso. Okay. Are there steps you have already 
taken since you have been on the FERC?
    Mr. LaCerte. Yes. So, we have right-sized our own NEPA 
process, which is ongoing and continuous. This work is not a 
magic bullet. We are going to continue to get more efficient, 
more effective. We are going to continue to move projects 
faster out of our queue. I know that a lot of things have 
languished over time. So, taking a look at what is on our 
docket, taking a look at what is within our jurisdiction, what 
is not. I think all these things are going to enable us to more 
narrowly focus, use staff more wisely, and get projects built.
    Senator Barrasso. Good.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Congressman, we don't know each other and didn't have a 
chance to visit, so I tend to look at documents, public 
documents, and what I have seen with respect to your views on 
selling off public lands doesn't really square with what I 
heard you say to my colleague here. So, I want to ask you about 
some of these comments. Not long ago, you said with respect to 
public land located in western states--and I am a westerner--
you said, and I quote, ``most of it we do not even need.'' Now, 
my question to you then is--is there too much public land in 
the West now, in your view? Because that is a direct quote, a 
quote that you made in connection with some leadership matters 
previously.
    So, tell me how we square those two views because that is a 
very blunt statement with respect to public land in my state 
and in the west--``most of it we do not even need.'' So, is 
that something you said some time ago and you no longer 
believe, or perhaps you could just make----
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator and I appreciate the 
question.
    Senator Wyden. Pardon me, one second.
    Mr. Chairman, I would just ask that we put into the record 
at this point in the questions some of these specifics that I 
am asking about.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    [2012 letter co-written by then-Congressman Pearce 
follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.010

[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.011

[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T2945.012

    Mr. Pearce. So, again, Senator, thanks for the question and 
I look forward to visiting with you in your office and getting 
to know you and your state more personally. But the statement 
made there was when I represented, as a legislative person, a 
district that was, I think, at odds with federal agencies many 
times because the management of those lands is sometimes not as 
well done as it should be, and local people pay the price. It 
cost them jobs. It cost them their careers. It cost them their 
land. And so, I spoke of those frustrations, but I don't, as I 
expressed to Senator Heinrich, I don't visualize selling large 
swaths of land.
    Senator Wyden. Let's be clear on this. You no longer agree 
with the statement you made years ago that I quoted you on 
because people can change their mind. I get that. But do you 
continue to hold that view, or have you changed your mind about 
something that--we are westerners, and we care about these 
kinds of things, so, what's your----
    Mr. Pearce. Again, Senator, I'm not so sure that I have 
changed. I'm not sure that I was not speaking out of sheer 
frustration with an agency on behalf of the people who were 
being overwhelmed. So, I do not believe that we are going to go 
out and wholesale land from the Federal Government. That, 
again, had been stated by the Secretary, and federal law says 
that we can't do that from the BLM itself.
    Senator Wyden. Well, with respect to that, it's pretty hard 
for us to be able, in the West, to trust someone who 
fundamentally doesn't believe that these public lands are 
important. I know you answered my colleague to the effect, 
well, we may not be able to do all the things that some people 
care about, but you are going to be in a position of great 
influence, and I followed that. I was Chairman of this 
Committee for some time before I went to Finance, and I want to 
know--somebody says, ``you know, that really was extreme, I 
don't believe that anymore,'' and what you said to me just now 
is, well, I was kind of frustrated about it back then and we 
will try to work something out now and I will tell you----
    Mr. Pearce. No, it's----
    Senator Wyden. [continuing]. I think we have got to do 
better.
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator. And I absolutely believe in 
the public lands and the public lands missions. I think that 
one of the most important things, just in my personal life, was 
the hikes that we would go on. Our family would go to Tucson, 
and my granddaughter sitting behind me was about five or six. 
She was the only one in the family who would get up early. I 
would say I am going to go walk at five, if you want to be out 
there, if you want to go with me, and she would. And that was 
really a special time. So, I recognize the importance of the 
federal lands and support the missions completely. I do not 
believe that we have too much federal land sitting in public 
hands. I know that it creates great stress in the West to have 
these lands managed from Washington. That, I do know.
    Senator Wyden. That last statement indicates your change in 
your views. So, I want to have some more conversation. If you 
are, that's a different story because these are treasures, and 
I look at your career and these documents because we didn't, 
you know, know each other. And you have made something of a 
career out of supporting the selling off of public lands, and I 
want to know if you are changing your position, and my door 
will be open to talk further.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
    It's important for us to remember that current federal law 
does not allow this. It does not allow the mass sale of federal 
public lands. And so, you know, absent an act of Congress 
authorizing such a thing, the question is moot, and Congressman 
Pearce has noted this point repeatedly, and has acknowledged 
that he will follow the law.
    Senator Wyden. Mr. Chairman, just very briefly.
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Senator Wyden. I had about ten more seconds.
    The Chairman. Go ahead.
    Senator Wyden. I think my concern is that when we have 
these smaller parcels and the like, which can be sold, that's 
what concerns me, and I look forward to continuing the 
conversation.
    The Chairman. Great. Thank you.
    Senator Risch.
    Senator Risch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Haustveit, first of all, thank you for agreeing to meet 
with me. We are going to meet a little bit later today. We have 
the advantage of you having performed, and I hear nothing but 
good things. Looking forward to talking with you.
    And Mr. LaCerte, same thing with you. You've had a year 
over there and I hear nothing but good things about your 
service there. So, it's always good to have this when we are 
voting on a confirmation to see, to have a background, where 
people have served in that position.
    So, to both of you, thank you for your service.
    Mr. Pearce, thank you for meeting with me. And you know, I 
am a one-issue guy on your appointment, and I want to stress, 
for people watching this today, that we are talking about a job 
that you are appointed to, to manage the BLM, and I stress, 
manage the BLM. The policy regarding the BLM, you understand, 
is the purview of this body and the body you formerly served 
in. Do you agree with me on that?
    Mr. Pearce. I do, Senator.
    Senator Risch. And we had a good discussion along the lines 
that Senator Lee just underscored, and that is that there is no 
authority for you, or for that matter, for the President, to 
sell off public lands. You agree with that?
    Mr. Pearce. I agree with that, Senator.
    Senator Risch. And as I explained to you, this is a 98 
percent issue in Idaho. In all my decades of serving the state, 
I have never received such passionate and unified messages as I 
have on this particular topic. Idahoans do not want their 
public lands sold, period, full stop. Public lands are really 
part of us. They are really sacred to us. So, any hint that 
that could happen really raises the ire of Idaho people. And 
look, it's more than that, it's personal to me. My 
undergraduate degree was in forestry, with studies in range 
management and wildlife management. And I did that because I 
loved the public lands. So, it is very personal to me.
    And let me tell you something, the experience we have had 
in Idaho, and it's, although not widespread, the examples were 
very concerning to us. For years and years--two-thirds of the 
State of Idaho is owned by the Federal Government and managed 
either by the Forest Service or by BLM--and for years and years 
there were some blocks that were owned by some of the timber 
companies, most notably was Potlatch and Boise Cascade. They 
were such great neighbors that you didn't know whether you were 
on a piece of Forest Service land or whether you were on a 
piece of their land. But, as you know, they went through the 
REIT reorganizations, and as a result, those blocks of land 
changed hands and went into private sector from people outside 
the state. What we wound up with was gates, fences, no 
trespassing signs, and I will tell you, this is incredibly 
upsetting to people who used a piece of land for opening day of 
elk season, for generations they have set up camp, and now they 
couldn't.
    Now, again, that was not widespread, but it gave us a 
glimpse as to what could happen, and very possibly would 
happen, if these lands were sold off. So we're out. We don't 
want that. We don't want anything to do with that. And I 
appreciate your stating to me, and I hope you will state it 
again, publicly, that you understand that the job you are being 
appointed to regards the management of these public lands, 
which I think you are very qualified to do. But as far as a 
wholesale sell-off of that, you have nothing to do about it, no 
matter what you thought about it, there would be no way you 
could get this done without the concurrence of the U.S. 
Congress, which I can tell you, is extremely unlikely at this 
point.
    Your thoughts?
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator. Again, I appreciate the 
time that we were able to spend in your office and came away 
with a very clear understanding of your position. It's one of 
the points that I made to Senator Heinrich, that when it comes 
to distribution of land, I look to you all to provide the 
ground work. You all will know your state. You will know the 
parcels of land much better than people in Washington. And so 
that's my commitment to you, that we will work with you, and 
follow the law completely.
    Senator Risch. Well, we appreciate that. And I would say 
this, so there is a clear understanding here--isolated parcels 
that are very small parcels that are sometimes needed for 
hospitals or for schools or what have you, this Committee, 
while I have been on it, has approved I think thousands of 
those sales over the years, but they are very, very small 
pieces. And I have never seen a wholesale sell-off of a large 
tract of land. And I know of no suggestions right now that that 
should happen. So, I appreciate your understanding that you are 
sent there to manage the land, and this other issue, which is a 
huge issue, is not one that we are going to have to be worried 
about at this time. So, with that, thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator King.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Congressman Pearce, I am sure it feels weird to be on that 
side of the dais, but so far, you're holding up.
    Mr. Pearce. It's a little bit strange, but we're holding up 
here. Thank you.
    Senator King. You are holding up quite well. Thank you.
    I want to change the subject to energy. The public lands, 
of course, have enormous energy potential in a whole host of 
areas. My concern is that the administration seems to have made 
a decision that fossil fuel extraction on public lands is okay, 
renewables, not so much. In fact, there is now a rule that 
every renewable project, whether it's wind or solar, has to go 
directly to the Secretary for his approval. This doesn't apply 
to fossil plants. The Chairman has made the point in prior 
hearings, we are facing a two-percent a year increase in 
demand, which is unprecedented. Compounded in 10 years, that's 
a 30 percent increase in demand.
    How are we going to get there by eliminating a significant 
source of energy from consideration? And the other side of this 
question is, how will people feel on your side of the fence in 
two, four, six, eight years, when it's reversed and all fossil 
fuel plants have to go through some kind of special extra 
review that never results in any permits? Do you see what I am 
saying? I mean, I would be fine if we were talking, okay, we 
are going to review all projects on public land, but to say we 
are going to only review renewable plants and not fossil fuels 
plants strikes me as (a) not in the public interest because we 
need that electricity, and (b) it establishes a terrible 
precedent for the federal even-handed regulation, if you will, 
of energy sources.
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I appreciate the question. The answer 
comes down to the fact that I will be working for the President 
and for the Secretary. That doesn't mean that I won't visit 
with you, figure out what your issues are and take those and 
represent them.
    Senator King. Yeah, but you are going to be a policy 
advisor. You are going to be the head of public lands. And we 
are talking about development on public lands. I presume 
somebody is going to ask you your opinion. Do you think it's a 
good idea to basically say we can do one kind of development on 
public lands and not another? And by the way, do you know if 
there is any legal authority for that kind of distinction?
    Mr. Pearce. Well, I am not yet in the position. I don't 
have access to all the information that's there. It's a 
conversation I am more than willing to have with you and with 
the administration, but I don't know the rationale, don't know 
the law regarding it--be happy to investigate that to its 
fullest.
    Senator King. Well, one of the problems with this--and you 
know, the prior administration had different policies--is what 
I am calling the whiplash effect, where the law and procedure 
and rules and regulations change dramatically from one 
administration to the other. And the result of that is, 
business doesn't have the confidence to invest because when you 
are talking about a multi-million dollar, perhaps billion-
dollar investment in an energy facility, you need to know that 
the rules will be the same when you get to the end of that 
process. So, I hope you will take this into consideration. And 
also, I am going to be pursuing the question of what is the 
legal authority that the Secretary has to--unto himself this--
essentially, a new permitting review for certain kinds of 
energy projects and not for some others.
    Mr. LaCerte, first I want to thank you because you have 
kept your promise. You have worked on the FERC in the prior 
months in a bipartisan way. The FERC is working, I think, very 
effectively. And I think you have met the representations that 
you made when you were here before.
    This energy demand that I mentioned is not only on the 
capacity side, but it's on the grid side. We are going to need 
huge investments in the expansion of the capacity of the grid. 
We need to use the grid more efficiently. The grid is like a 
church that is built only for Christmas and Easter. There are a 
lot of empty pews in February and June.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator King. And we've got to figure out how to use this 
thing more efficiently rather than dump in billions of dollars, 
which are going to go right to the ratepayers. And what I am 
getting at is, GETs--technologies that will enable us to 
increase the throughput of the grid without new poles, without 
new rights-of-way, perhaps reconductoring, but also dynamic 
line rating. I hope this is a priority for FERC because you 
said a few minutes ago, and I loved it when you said it, ``I 
represent the ratepayers.'' And, as you know, transmission and 
distribution is now 50 percent of most electric bills. I can 
remember when it was 25 or 30 percent. And it's getting higher.
    So, tell me how you feel about GETs?
    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, thank you.
    First, I sit in the----
    Senator King. That's grid-enhancing technologies. That's 
what 
G-E-T-S stands for. Go ahead.
    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.
    You know, I sit in the church pews of FERC every day, much 
more so than my home pews of my home parish back home, sad to 
say, but I think you are right. I think we need to squeeze 
every megawatt of the existing grid that we can, whether that's 
dynamic line ratings, whether that's grid-enhancing 
technologies of any type, but I can't endorse one over another. 
I think we need to do a much better job of being efficient with 
the grid that we have, in addition to building new 
transmission. So, you are going to see more from me in those 
coming months in that regard.
    Senator King. I appreciate that. And I am out of time, but 
Mr. Haustveit, what I am particularly concerned about is, and 
you don't have to answer this, we can do it for the record, is 
cyber. CESER is part of your jurisdiction, and I am very 
worried. We talked about the gas pipeline. The work I have done 
in cyber indicates to me the gas pipeline system is quite 
vulnerable. I can tell you, almost to a certainty, that China, 
right now, is trying to penetrate those SCADA systems on our 
gas pipelines. I hope this will be a point of emphasis for you, 
and you will restore whatever cuts have been made to staff at 
CESER because you are on the front lines of our country being 
under attack.
    Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
    Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning, your 
willingness to serve, appreciate each of you.
    Congressman Pearce, I appreciated our meeting several weeks 
back. It was good to reconnect with you. As I mentioned in my 
office, when you are confirmed to this position, you are going 
to be spending a lot of time focusing on Alaska issues, not 
just because we are special, but because we just have more BLM 
land than anybody else out there. So, all of my friends talk 
about what it means in their state--very, very important--but 
you will find that this is a significant part of your 
portfolio. So, we are going to be counting on you to help us to 
restore this balance that we talk about within our land 
management plans. We had some good news this past week, 
finally, with the lifting of Public Land Orders 5150 and 5180. 
So, those are good, but we have got a lot more work to be 
doing.
    For Assistant Secretary Haustveit, I appreciate your 
willingness to step into this Under Secretary role at DOE. I am 
sure that you have this aperture, this view of the Department, 
but I want to reinforce it. It really is about working to 
commercialize new resources and technologies so that we are 
always pushing to build out our new supplies. I think we 
recognize that not everything is going to be perfect, not 
everything is commercially viable right now, but that's the 
point, that's why we have the DOE, to help get them there. And 
so, it doesn't help us when the administration decides that 
they are going to say, okay, these resources are good, these 
are bad, they pull their permits, they pull their funding. So, 
again, it's just, it's pushing on the innovation side.
    And then, to you, Commissioner LaCerte, you were just here 
last fall. You know how strongly I feel about having a full 
complement at FERC. You guys have a tough job, and you need all 
of you there. So, we are in a little bit of a different place 
in Alaska because we don't have the interstate grid, but we 
have a whole range of FERC issues that we are going to be 
asking the FERC to weigh in on, and I am hoping to be able to 
ask a question in that regard.
    Let me first turn to you, Congressman Pearce. And there has 
been a lot of discussion about what's going on with our public 
lands, but we have been fighting mightily for years now to 
deliver on promises made to our Alaska Native veterans. At the 
time of land selections, those who were serving in Vietnam were 
not able to get their selections. This is going to require not 
only the opportunity for expanded land availability, but also 
timely processing along the way, and timely processing requires 
people. There is so much in the BLM space that just requires 
you to be able to move permits and do reviews, and when you 
don't have the men and women that are doing that, it makes it 
really, really hard to do the job. So, I just, I am going to 
ask you to commit to prioritizing adequate staffing within the 
BLM offices. I am looking particularly at the Alaska state 
offices. You know, we have got a big mandate under the 
President's day-one Alaska order. But you can't do that as head 
of BLM unless you have the folks. So, just asking for your 
commitment on that.
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I will be happy to commit to work with 
you. I will be happy to come and visit personally those field 
offices and to look specifically at the issue of Native 
American veterans. Like I said in my statement, in 2016 I flew 
my single-engine small airplane around the world committing it 
to those who didn't make it back from Vietnam. I was fortunate 
enough to come back, but there is still a hole in my heart for 
those who didn't make it. And I will pay special attention to 
that issue. I look forward to working with you.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I 
invite all of you, each of you, to join us in Alaska. You 
always learn a lot when you make the trip.
    Assistant Secretary, I want to ask you, because there are a 
couple of offices within the Department of Energy that we pay 
particular attention to. I have always felt that the Office of 
Indian Energy can do more in terms of financing tools, 
leveraging to support rural and Alaska Native communities. 
Equally important is the Arctic Energy Office. That has been 
elevated from the Office of Science to now sitting under the 
purview of S3, which will be you. So, can you share with me, 
really quickly, your views on the Office of Indian Energy, and 
what do you think of the Arctic Energy Office? Do you think 
it's a valuable part of DOE?
    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, thank you for the question.
    Absolutely, both offices are critical. We went through a 
realignment in November and specifically emphasized those 
offices. So, I am proud to have the opportunity to work with 
those individuals, if confirmed, to partner with Alaskans, to 
partner with our Native Americans across the country. There is 
tremendous opportunity in your state and across the Lower 48 as 
well.
    Senator Murkowski. Good, I look forward to working with you 
on that.
    And then, Mr. Chairman, I do have one quick follow-up for 
Commissioner LaCerte, and this relates the Alaska Natural Gas 
Pipeline proposal. FERC has already done the work there, but 
there is a great deal of conversation about the potential for a 
spur line to the second largest community in the state--that 
would be Fairbanks--and how FERC can ensure that there is the 
potential for that. I recognize that I am out of time, and so, 
I would like to have that conversation with you later, perhaps 
offline.
    Mr. LaCerte. I would love that.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    To the nominees, congratulations, welcome. Welcome to all 
your family members here.
    Mr. Haustveit, thank you for meeting with me in my office. 
I appreciate the conversation.
    Congressman Pearce, I am probably going to talk mostly to 
you, and this is why. In Nevada, over 80 percent of the land is 
managed by the Federal Government, and 63 percent is the BLM. 
The economic vibrancy of our state relies on a good 
relationship with the Federal Government, and really clear, 
immediate answers on management, decisions, working with our 
state. One of the areas I want to talk to you about is, in 
Nevada, years ago, we passed the Southern Nevada Public Lands 
Management Act--an act and piece of legislation that Secretary 
Burgum has praised as well. This is a model for land disposal, 
like states in the West, where there is a lot of federal land. 
And what it does is, it prioritizes disposal through a process 
that targets parcels based on local need and utilizes land sale 
revenue for conservation, for infrastructure, for recreation, 
for education in the state in which the land sales took place. 
I have introduced legislation to expand that disposal boundary 
to the benefit of my state for economic development, for 
conservation, for housing, for a number of things.
    My question to you is, will you support community-driven 
legislation like the Southern Nevada Lands bill that 
facilitates very specific disposal of land identified by local 
officials for housing and economic development?
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, thanks for the question, but also 
thanks for the time that you spent in your office. I thought it 
was very instructive, and it helped me understand a state 
that's even more federally owned than ours. But yes, I have 
read the comments coming from you and from the previous Senator 
about the economic boom that is occurring on land that had very 
little value in the hands of the Federal Government. And I am 
not familiar with the expansion that you were talking about, 
but generally, I would say that I will fall very closely on the 
issue to where you stand. I just haven't looked at it, I am not 
familiar. I would be happy to work with you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Based on your experience, though, in 
New Mexico, in dealing with land from your private--it is 
important that locals are part of this conversation and that 
the Federal Government pays attention to local needs and 
stakeholders, correct?
    Mr. Pearce. It is correct and, in Las Cruces, we are 
building houses on some of the most fertile Rio Grande Valley 
land, taking it out of farming use when less than a half mile 
away, there is just rangeland that is currently unused by the 
Federal Government. And again, we never got that transition 
done. We attempted it, but that was just, I think, 40 acres, 
and we could never get it done. So, I have said multiple times 
that I will work with every member of the Committee and their 
state to figure out what makes sense in their state. I don't 
visualize the Federal Government having the best insight on 
that.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, thank you.
    One of the things I didn't get a chance to talk to you 
about when we were meeting, and the question is pretty simple. 
We have seen this issue in the State of Nevada, but if a 
rancher is grazing cattle illegally on federal land, how would 
you handle that?
    Mr. Pearce. If they are grazing illegally? Oh, I think that 
the laws will be upheld, and we should dig into that, and 
again, there are pieces of the agency which deal with that, but 
I absolutely believe that permission has to be given when a 
landholder, be it personal or federal, the permission has to be 
sacred.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    And then, let me just touch on something Senator King 
talked about, and think we talked about this as well. In 
Nevada, we currently produce 41 percent of power through 
renewable resources, most of that solar. The solar industry in 
my state is roughly about 30,000 jobs, which is more per-capita 
than any other industry. It's about $13.3 billion in 
investment. The problem we have right now is that Secretary 
Burgum issued a memo on July 15, 2025 that requires every 
single permitting decision point from wind or solar projects to 
be elevated and decided by him. That has essentially frozen all 
of our projects and stopped solar in the State of Nevada.
    Wouldn't you agree that the administration should be 
evaluating potential public land uses objectively for its 
highest yield of resources, rather than making a determination 
on energy preferences?
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, that's a very similar issue to what 
Senator King brought up, and I am unfamiliar with the order and 
frankly, have had very little discussion with the Secretary up 
to this point on any issue, and even less with the President, 
but I suspect that it's a conversation that we will have. I 
will seek understanding and be working with you to get your 
questions specifically on that.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    And I know I am running out of time, but let me just do one 
final thing here--resource management plan, statewide. I have 
been asking the Department for this, for this very reason, 
because the Federal Government owns so much land, there has to 
be a partnership and a resource management plan taking into 
consideration our state, our local stakeholders, our tribes, 
and working together. I would hope that when you get in this 
position, you are willing to work with us on updating our 
resource management plan statewide for the State of Nevada. 
That is to the best interest of both people in the State of 
Nevada, but also the Federal Government.
    Mr. Pearce. I think it was Senator Heinrich that mentioned 
that we had tremendous outreach into every community in the 2nd 
District of New Mexico, and I would visualize the same effort 
going into the states. So, you would find me a willing partner 
on looking at that and working with the local communities 
because that's the voice that we have got to protect. It's 
their economy, it's their life, it's their homes, it's their 
culture, it's their customs, and those are things that I am 
deeply sensitive to, whether it be Native American land or just 
your average mountain community or whatever. Yes, I would 
commit strongly to that.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Chairman Lee, thank you.
    First of all, I want to give a heartfelt thanks to each of 
you for your willingness to serve in these very important 
roles, and I truly look forward to working with each of you, 
once you are confirmed.
    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, it's great to have a Butte 
grad here. As we say back home in Montana, it's not Butte, 
Montana, it's Butte, America. But you are a graduate of Montana 
Tech. It's a great institution, and I am really pleased to have 
a little of that DNA here in Washington.
    Congressman Pearce, we served together in the House of 
Representatives when I first came in as a freshman in 2013. And 
we served on behalf of two great western states--New Mexico and 
Montana. During those years that you served in the House, you 
sponsored a number of natural resources bills, including ones 
that sought to serve the interests of tribes, of ranchers, of 
recreationists. In fact, one of those bills was the Making 
Public Lands Public Act, which directed a portion of the Land 
and Water Conservation Fund for increasing public access for 
hunting, fishing, and recreational shooting. In fact, in 
Montana, where we are famous for a lot of things, but the 
movie, ``A River Runs Through It,'' where Brad Pitt suddenly 
discovered fly fishing and ruined it for the rest of us.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Daines. Seventy-five percent of our fishing 
access--and I have had a fly rod in my hand since I was 11 
years old from my Grandpa Daines, as a kid growing up in 
Montana--seventy-five percent of our fishing access sites were 
funded by LWCF. We have access to these amazing rivers and 
streams because of the Land and Water Conservation Fund, and it 
has been successfully used to unlock access to public lands 
that prior were inaccessible due to checkerboard land 
ownership. Under President Trump, in fact, we permanently 
authorized and funded LWCF in that very bipartisan Great 
American Outdoors Act, that many said was the greatest 
conservation win in 50 years.
    My question, Congressman Pearce, if confirmed, will you 
continue to support expanding hunting, fishing, and recreation 
access on BLM lands through the LWCF program?
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator.
    Senator Daines. Congressman Pearce, we also had a great 
conversation about the need for forest management when you 
stopped by my office and the need for reforms as it relates to 
forest management. BLM manages 1.3 million acres of forest land 
in Montana and the Dakotas. Yet, simple projects get bogged 
down in red tape, and sadly, endless litigation. However, we 
are making progress in helping to remedy that. I have a bill 
that will fix that Ninth Circuit Court Cottonwood decision. It 
has passed this Committee now by voice, so, we have really 
strong bipartisan support, and it's included in the Fix our 
Forests Act.
    Congressman Pearce, do you agree that we need to increase 
the pace and the scale of forest management on BLM lands and 
pass reforms like the Cottonwood fix, the Root and Stem Act, as 
well as the Fix our Forests Act?
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator. And in New Mexico, we had 
a forest in my district. It was about a million acres, and they 
were cleaning up and taking out the fuels for like 500 acres a 
year. With a million acres, you would never get to the end. And 
I visited with members of both sides of the aisle about the 
need to go in and aggressively begin to remove the fuels. If we 
do that, then we are going to increase the water supply in the 
West, which is always a problem. Every tree uses a certain 
amount of water that should be percolating down into the 
aquifers, recharging the streams and rivers and springs. And 
so, those large-scale thinning projects of tens of thousands of 
acres instead of hundreds of acres is something that I 
visualize. But I would also say that it's going to take the 
backing of this Committee to do those large projects because 
it's a very sensitive political issue. I understand that. 
People say we are going to go clear-cut. I never think we are 
going to do that, but we do need to aggressively thin.
    Senator Daines. We have watched the remarkable outcomes 
from proper thinning in our forests--you know, these trees are 
a bunch of straws in the ground. They are pulling water out. 
And you thin them out and then the trees remaining grow a lot 
faster. Suddenly, you see springs that you never knew existed 
are refurbished. It's quite remarkable what happens to the 
ecosystem when we do proper forest management--wildlife 
habitat, not to mention reducing the risk of catastrophic 
wildfire, and by the way, jobs for loggers in our sawmills as 
well, which is also an endangered species now in Montana. When 
I was a kid growing up, we had 30 active sawmills. We are down 
to just a handful because of the loss of access in many ways to 
our forests.
    Mr. Pearce. We have experienced the same thing in southern 
New Mexico. And again, a raging fire was on the Lincoln 
National Forest up near Ruidoso. The Mescalero Indians have a 
forest that butts right up against it and that raging fire 
dropped down and became a grass fire because the Mescaleros had 
cleaned theirs. They had to go through the same rules, same 
laws, and they were able to do it. And so, these are the things 
that cause local communities to say there is hope when they see 
members of the Senate on both sides saying let's get after it 
and let's start cleaning up our environment.
    Senator Daines. Yes. I am out of time here, but it is 
encouraging. This is becoming increasingly a very bipartisan 
issue----
    Mr. Pearce. It's very bipartisan.
    Senator Daines [continuing]. To address this because fire 
knows no boundaries, as we know.
    I have a few more questions, but I will submit those for 
the record.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
    Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank both you 
and Ranking Member Heinrich for organizing this hearing.
    Mr. Pearce, I appreciate the time we were able to spend in 
my office just yesterday. I am going to echo some of the 
concerns and sentiments that some of my colleagues have raised 
about public lands. And it is bipartisan. I know Senator Risch, 
especially, was passionate earlier in the hearing today. From a 
California perspective, the Bureau of Land Management manages 
nearly 15 percent of California's landmass. So, it's critical 
for us that BLM and the BLM Director maintain these lands for 
future generations to enjoy and not just knee-jerk sell them to 
the highest bidder.
    These BLM lands in California include Chuckwalla National 
Monument. For years, I worked with numerous tribal leaders who 
led the effort to protect the natural resources in that area 
and to promote access to what is now Chuckwalla. It was a 
thoughtfully crafted proposal, as you and I discussed in my 
office, that took into account the input from stakeholders, 
conservationists, energy developers, utilities, tribal leaders, 
hunters, recreation groups, and others, and we ended up with 
universal local support from the state and bipartisan support 
here in the Senate and from Congress. As a result, as one of 
the outcomes of that, five tribes have even formed an inter-
tribal commission to solidify their enduring commitment to 
protecting sacred lands in Chuckwalla.
    My question is clear and simple, Mr. Pearce: if confirmed, 
are you committed to honoring these monument designations, yes 
or no?
    Mr. Pearce. Yes.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. That's a great answer. Short, 
clear, concise, and on the record. And I appreciate your 
support for maintaining these protections, and please know that 
I also want to work with you to arrange a meeting with you and 
the members of the inter-tribal commission so you can learn 
more about Chuckwalla. I don't expect you to be an expert on 
day one. Is that a meeting that you are willing to commit to, 
should you be confirmed?
    Mr. Pearce. Say that again, Senator?
    Senator Padilla. The meeting with the inter-tribal 
commission that has been formed now that the monument 
designation has been finalized.
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, as a Representative of southern New 
Mexico, we had multiple pueblos. We had Apache Tribes and we 
had Navajos. We worked extremely closely with all of those to 
accomplish objectives they were looking for on their lands. I 
would visualize a very similar--the Native Americans sometimes 
are overlooked from Washington and----
    Senator Padilla. Not just sometimes, far too often.
    Mr. Pearce. We became a voice for them and would continue 
to do that.
    Senator Padilla. Right. And we talked about meaningful, 
substantive consultation, not just the checking of a box that 
has happened so much over the course of history.
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely.
    Senator Padilla. My next question is for Mr. LaCerte. FERC 
has taken action to speed up large-load interconnections to the 
existing grid. While load flexibility and co-location can be 
valuable tools for maximizing the use of our existing grid, 
there are no substitutes for smart transmission investment to 
ensure future reliability. Tell me if you disagree. The way I 
see it, to be smart, you need a plan. So, as electricity demand 
continues to rise, do you believe that FERC should continue to 
support long-term, regional transmission planning?
    Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely. Far too often in the past, I 
think, we probably could have tightened some screws with some 
of the plannings that have been done, both interregionally and 
at the state level themselves. I think that it's important that 
we squeeze every possible watt out of the existing grid that we 
have. And that means more diligence, more proper planning, and 
taking a harder look at all the decisions before us.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you for that. I know I have less 
than a minute left here. Let me just say, I will be submitting 
a couple of additional questions for the record to each of you, 
and I want to register that one of those questions and concerns 
will be staffing cuts. You know, serving under an 
administration, whether it's through the budget process or 
through the DOGE process last year, there have been funding 
cuts in a whole lot of places of the Federal Government and 
staffing cuts in a whole lot of places of the Federal 
Government, with increasing demand on the services and guidance 
that these departments and agencies are meant to provide. How 
are we supposed to achieve that going forward with limited 
resources? So, I look forward to an ongoing conversation with 
you.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Cassidy.
    Senator Cassidy. Thank you.
    Mr. Haustveit, Louisiana has a big Meta AI center in 
Northeast Louisiana, but there is one just announced with 
Amazon in Northwest Louisiana. In both cases, both companies 
have committed to building the sufficient power generation so 
as to not raise rates. The President, in his State of the 
Union, said again, we should not be raising rates and said that 
these data centers should. How do you ensure that? Number one, 
how do you make sure that they actually are carrying their 
weight, if you will? Number two, there is going to be a lot of 
transmission line upgrade required for this. And so, the second 
part of this is, how do we get that permitting through so that, 
as they do carry their weight in terms of generation, we have 
the transmission capability to make it happen?
    Mr. Haustveit. Thank you for the question, Senator.
    On the first one, we have a President who is an incredible 
dealmaker, so he has already negotiated the deals with the 
largest hyperscalers. The deals that he highlighted in the 
State of the Union last night focused on not only bringing 
their own power to provide what they need for their 
hyperscalers, but more than enough, so that we can have a 
downward price pressure for residential consumers. So, working 
with the developers is key. We need to win the AI race. These 
AI data centers and power generation builds provide incredible 
jobs.
    Senator Cassidy. No, I accept that, so, if it's behind the 
meter, then you are going to have sufficient generation, but 
sometimes they are going to have to transmit electrons from, 
say, the Panhandle of Oklahoma to Northwest Louisiana. And 
that's going to require transmission lines. Transmission has 
been very difficult to get done. Any thoughts on that?
    Mr. Haustveit. Yes, Senator, I appreciate the question. It 
depends on where we are at. There are different solutions for 
different regions, but the same dealmaking that the President 
has done for power generation will be done for transmission as 
well. The President is committed to avoiding putting any upward 
pressure on rates to consumers due to data centers. We want to 
support the buildout without----
    Senator Cassidy. I accept that, but I will go back to the 
practical nature. It has been very difficult to get large 
transmission lines done. I mean, it can take a decade or more, 
I am told.
    Mr. LaCerte, any thoughts on that?
    Mr. LaCerte. Yes, absolutely. I think we could probably 
talk for weeks on end about this issue.
    Senator Cassidy. I have two minutes left.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. LaCerte. First and foremost, I think we have to give 
flexibilities to the entities that have earned the trust and 
respect to have those flexibilities. We need to build 
procedural safeguards in place to make sure the consumers are 
protected. And that's why, within my first two months on the 
job, we committed to an order within PJM which allows for new 
transmission, the first transmission services over the past 20 
years, called ``firm and non-firm co-located demand''. So, I 
think it only makes sense that if we have a load that is in 
proximity to the generator, that's going to reduce the amount 
of transmission that is required to serve that load. So, it's a 
partnership with the states.
    Senator Cassidy. I get that, but if you have load which is 
distant from the user, then we are going to need that 
transmission line, and that has been really hard to do.
    Mr. LaCerte. It has been really hard to do, but it has been 
thrown out of whack many times because of the early retirement 
of baseload power and the overreliance of renewables. That's 
why we have many areas in the country which transmit load over 
a large square mileage. I think that increases the cost because 
you have to build that high-capacity transmission from one area 
to another. I think it is vitally important for seams, as we 
are going, especially in the West and into California within 
SPP, but co-locating load makes practical sense.
    Senator Cassidy. I accept that.
    Mr. LaCerte. And I understand it's on a re-hearing, I can't 
get too much into the order, but that's a vital step in the 
right direction.
    Senator Cassidy. Mr. Haustveit, on a different topic, the 
Supreme Court seems to have closed the door on EPA tariffs, but 
clearly the President wants to continue to use tariffs to 
protect American businesses and American workers. And if you 
look, countries like China arbitrage or ignore environmental 
laws to lower the cost of manufacturing, as much as by 20 
percent. Our manufacturers move there, we lose the jobs, but 
the pollution blows over on our country. So, I proposed the 
Foreign Pollution Fee that would be roughly equal to the 
avoided cost of complying with environmental regulations to be 
tacked on to any good which is polluting coming from a place 
like China. Any thoughts on that?
    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, first, the President's tariff plan 
has been wildly successful. We have met with countless 
companies who have told us----
    Senator Cassidy. I accept that. I've got a minute left. I 
have 30 seconds.
    Mr. Haustveit. They've told us that they are building here 
because of that. So, I think the President is solving the 
solution by reindustrializing in the United States. So, I hope 
that your plan is a moot point and we industrialize in the 
United States, we build what we need----
    Senator Cassidy. But it seems like those tariffs have been 
part of what has incentivized them to build here, but now the 
tariffs are gone. Again, I am promoting a congressional tool to 
give to the President that would stand up in court but give 
business the kind of certainty as to what the tariffs would be.
    I am out of time. I will just say, Steve Pearce, good to 
see you, man, and you have got my vote.
    Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Gallego.
    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman Lee and Ranking Member 
Heinrich, and thank you to our witnesses for being here.
    Thank you, Congressman Pearce, for coming by my office 
yesterday. I had a little hiccup with day care, and you were 
very accommodating, considering my daughter was running around 
like crazy, as usual, but, you know, you have heard it from 
some of our western states today, and I will give the stat that 
everyone else has, you know, we have 12.1 million acres of BLM 
land. We are very, very lucky to have such a beautiful state--
the most beautiful in the country. And within this land, we 
have national monuments that highlight, you know, the beauty 
and the culture of the state, too. Of course, one of the ones 
that we always talk about is the Grand Canyon and the ancestral 
footprints of such. And so, because it has already been asked, 
but I have to do it as a home-stater, because this has been 
somewhat controversial, which, when it comes to the Grand 
Canyon monument, that has been ping-ponging back and forth, I 
would love to make sure that, you know, there is still going to 
be support for that and would like to know if you have any 
plans to roll back protections for the Grand Canyon?
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, for the question. And I did 
enjoy the visit yesterday, and the day care thing rings heavy, 
and is nice.
    Senator Gallego. Yes.
    Mr. Pearce. So the monuments are something I do support 
deeply and I understand the Grand Canyon, it's one of the most 
magnificent things, frankly, in the world. So, we will do 
whatever we can to work with you any way that is necessary on 
that.
    Senator Gallego. Great. Thanks.
    And this administration has announced an initiative to 
build housing on federal lands, with very little detail, and I 
think, done smartly, especially for rural Arizona, it can be 
done in a way that could be very good to help with the costs, 
but after the announcement, I actually asked the President and 
his administration for details on that because I want to make 
sure what doesn't happen is that the best lands get given away 
to the richest men and women and they end up being, you know, 
estates for them and then we stop, you know, our communities 
from being able to access land that is important for fishing, 
hunting, and camping, because that's usually the land that is 
the closest to the cities, but then it's also land that's most 
likely to be valuable. So, I want to make sure that, you know, 
anything going forward, I want it to be thoughtful. I want to 
make sure that it actually is, you know, accessible to working-
class people.
    So, I just want to make sure, once you--should you get in 
there, will you commit to providing the answers for these types 
of questions or inquiries, especially from U.S. Senators?
    Mr. Pearce. Absolutely, Senator, and I mentioned a couple 
times today that, on those issues of use of public lands in 
your state, I really look forward to working with each 
individual Senator, that each state is going to be different. 
Then, as far as access and working-class people--my dad was 
kind of at the lowest level of the oil field. We had a five-
acre farm, and with six kids, we literally sold vegetables on 
the highway to make things meet. The only thing we had to do 
for vacation was the drive up to Cloudcroft and go through that 
national forest. That was our vacation----
    Senator Gallego. That is very true for a lot of people in 
Arizona, too. So, you know, for me, it's important that BLM 
lands, especially the ones closest to the cities, are not sold 
off, you know, potentially as trophy homes to billionaires. So, 
what I am trying to communicate to you is that I want to make 
sure that doesn't happen, and that you will do everything in 
your power to make sure that doesn't happen.
    Lastly, you know, as a veteran, many of us use our public 
lands as, basically, public therapy, if you want to call it 
that, right? It's a great way to de-stress. It's a great way to 
think about what's going on in our lives. A lot of us will go 
camping together. BLM land is often the front yard for rural 
veteran communities. So, how will you measure BLM's success in 
recreation and community benefit, not just production, such as 
metrics like leases, whether it's mineral leases or grazing 
leases?
    Mr. Pearce. Again, I experienced the same thing you are 
talking about when I got back from Vietnam--backpacking in 
California, some of the wilderness areas in the Gila, exactly 
what you are talking about. And I think that access is the key, 
and some public lands don't have very good access. My brother 
is in a wheelchair. President Bush put him on the Commission 
for Handicapped Access, especially to our parks. I was co-chair 
of the National Park Subcommittee. We dealt with that issue a 
lot, and so access is extremely important to me, for everyone, 
and especially talking about aging populations--they just, they 
have to be able to get there if they are going to enjoy it.
    Senator Gallego. Thank you. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Assistant Secretary Haustveit, in 2000, North Dakota 
produced about 100,000 barrels of oil a day, and it was going 
down. We went to work. We cracked the code on the shale play. 
We drove it up to 1.5 million barrels a day. And now, we are 
back down. Now, it's starting to decline down. We are at about 
1.1 million barrels of oil a day. So, we need to crack the code 
again, this time with enhanced oil recovery, and if we can do 
it by taking CO2 from our coal-fired electric 
plants, we also double the life of those coal plants and give 
them a new revenue source. We passed 45Q, a tax credit, to help 
do that and use that CO2 for enhanced oil recovery. 
We have pulled about 5.7 billion barrels out of the ground, out 
of the shale now, the Bakken shale. We think we can easily 
double that. We are only getting about 10 percent of the oil.
    So, there is incredible potential here. If we can do it in 
the Bakken, then they can do it in the other shale plays around 
the country. Tell me now, what can DOE do to make that happen--
Crack the Code 2.0?
    Mr. Haustveit. Senator, as we have spent hours talking 
about this, it's something I am passionate about. It's the top 
priority in our oil and gas office, absolutely. Leaving these 
resources behind with only 10 percent of the resource extracted 
is irresponsible. It's not being a good steward of these 
resources we have been blessed with. So, the way that we can 
help, it's multi-pronged. Some of it is through applied 
research at our national labs to make sure we understand what 
we deploy, how we deploy, from the chemistry that we blend 
with, the CO2, or surfactants, or rich gas, to the 
metallurgy that those gases are coming in contact with, and 
through our funding mechanisms. It's extremely important that 
we pilot these technologies at scale, in the field, as soon as 
we possibly can to give them the best chance of success. We 
need to be thoughtful in transitioning these ideas from 
laboratory, to field development, to full scale, like we did in 
the Bakken--commercial development. So, industry takes it and 
scales it, as we know they can.
    Senator Hoeven. Right, and we know we can do it 
technologically. The key is getting it to commercial viability, 
right? And that's right in DOE's wheelhouse, isn't it? So, this 
is an incredibly big deal. I know Secretary Wright understands 
it, I know Secretary Danly understands it, and I know you 
understand it. So that's why I am very excited about your 
leadership at DOE.
    Now, somewhat related, but I think in an interesting way, 
we are also looking at using a lot of that oil and gas 
infrastructure to see if we can't do some exciting new things 
with geothermal. And so, talk to me about what you see as the 
potential--also, I mean, again, we are using existing resources 
and we are using them in new and creative ways, better 
environmental stewardship and a lot more energy and we need 
electricity and we need, you know, transportation fuels. We 
need all of it. So, what about geothermal? What can we do 
there?
    Mr. Haustveit. So, the Williston Basin has one of the 
higher thermal gradients for an oil and gas reservoir. It's not 
as high as our friends out in the West where they've cooked 
off----
    Senator Hoeven. You mean like places like New Mexico or 
Utah, those kinds of places?
    Mr. Haustveit. It's a little hotter.
    Senator Hoeven. It's exciting for them, you know, just if 
anybody were----
    Mr. Haustveit. But also, what we have going for us in North 
Dakota is, geothermal is all about a ``delta T''--a 
differential in temperature. And as you know, it's not always 
warm in North Dakota. So, the produced fluid doesn't have to be 
as hot to get the same benefit in terms of the differential 
between the produced fluid and the ambient temperature. That's 
where we extract the energy from the fluid and convert it to 
electrons.
    Senator Hoeven. And what kind of initiatives? What are you 
all looking at to help do that?
    Mr. Haustveit. Just this morning we announced the largest 
ever funding opportunity for geothermal, with two topic areas. 
One is what I talked about earlier, with CO2, but 
now for geothermal--field pilots. We need people that drill 
real wells to go to the field and demonstrate these projects at 
scale. And the other one is to characterize. North Dakota does 
not have to do a whole lot of characterization work. With tens 
of thousands of wells, you know your subsurface better than 
almost anywhere in the world. Areas in the West, where there 
are very few vertical penetrations because there is no existing 
production, we need to go collect that subsurface information 
so we know where the highest quality resource exists.
    Senator Hoeven. Yeah, and our Energy and Environmental 
Research Center at the University of North Dakota can be very 
helpful with that. And I would also think, as you mentioned, 
the national labs have a really great role to play here, too. 
So, this is about American innovation and ingenuity that can 
create incredible new energy opportunities. Would you agree?
    Mr. Haustveit. Absolutely.
    Senator Hoeven. And you are certainly committed to working 
on those things with the members of this Committee?
    Mr. Haustveit. Absolutely, Senator, yes.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Mr. Haustveit. Thank you.
    Senator Hoeven. Mr. LaCerte, thank you for your good work 
on FERC. I support it. I support you, and I appreciate it. You 
play an important role and you are knowledgeable, thoughtful, 
and good about communicating with us. So, I want to thank you 
for that.
    Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Hoeven. Mr. Pearce, I don't know how somebody can 
bring a better background to the job than you, not to mention 
your incredible service to this nation in Vietnam. So, if there 
is anything you want to put on the record, go ahead, but I am 
just thrilled that people like you will step up and serve.
    Mr. Pearce. Thank you, Senator, appreciate that.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Hoeven, there will be a 
thermodynamics test for members at the end of the hearing, if 
you want to stick around.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, all 
three of you, for being here.
    Colorado is deeply invested, emotionally, in our public 
lands. It's not just the $17 billion in our outdoor recreation 
industry, but it's a sense of connection to our history, to our 
identity, what it means to be a Coloradan.
    I have a couple questions. You know, Mr. Pearce, and we 
talked a little bit on the phone about this--when there was 
talk of selling off large amounts of public lands recently, we 
had over 80,000 Coloradans reach out to say that they were 
against any large-scale selling of public lands. And we know 
that there are existing ways, and towns across the West are 
getting little bits of BLM lands here or there for buildings. 
But there has been a huge outwelling of people concerned about 
your nomination over many of the things that you have said 
around selling public lands. I know Senator Wyden, I watched 
his questions as well, and you said you would follow the 
direction of Congress. But I think, oftentimes, someone in your 
position influences Congress. And I guess the question is, are 
you free of those past comments? And I can read back several 
where you supported the widespread sale of public lands, either 
to pay down the deficit or to get money for education or 
whichever reason. Is that something you really can renounce and 
feel that if you were being asked by Congress to provide input, 
what would you say?
    Mr. Pearce. I appreciate, number one, the conversation, the 
time that you took a couple of days ago. That was very 
instructive, and I appreciate that. As far as the large-scale 
sale of land, I think the Secretary has been very clear. FLPMA 
prohibits any large-scale sale by the Director. And so, it 
would be at the Secretary level, and he said, and I would 
intend to follow his lead on that, that there won't be any 
large-scale sale of lands.
    Senator Hickenlooper. But if you were asked by Congress 
your opinion, do you still feel that would be your own personal 
opinion that it would be an efficient and useful process to be 
able to sell-off more of that land? If Congress was asking, 
they might change such a statute.
    Mr. Pearce. Well, that, Senator, is kind of a multi-
dimensional question. Sometimes the eastern states don't 
understand the role of PILT, and they begin to suggest that 
PILT should be taken away, that it's welfare to the West, and 
those conversations then take a whole different tack on the 
issue.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, but if you were asked to sell--
say, to pay PILT--to sell public lands, again, I don't think 
there would be any question. The people that are calling us and 
are so concerned about your nomination, that would not be a 
reason to suddenly begin selling lands?
    Mr. Pearce. That's not a position that I will take, but 
also, it's a position that's not even allowed by the Director. 
And I have indicated multiple times today that I will work with 
the members of the Committee on the land in their state--that I 
think that's where the best insight is going to come from on 
what to do with public lands.
    Senator Hickenlooper. You know, one of our people calling 
into my office reminded me of something I had said--I have said 
it multiple times--when someone reveals themself, do you 
believe them? And I think there's a lot of distrust and you are 
going to have to work very hard to dispel that.
    I also wanted to ask a question about methane. You know, 
the BLM's methane waste prevention rule back in 2017 allowed us 
to conserve gas that otherwise would have been vented or 
flared. It's common sense, but when I was Governor of Colorado, 
we actually sat down with the oil and gas industry and the 
environmental community and we spent a year and a half creating 
concise, efficient regulations that did everything possible to 
make sure that we did not put those harmful pollutants into the 
air and that we were able to get maximum benefit from them. And 
yet, now we see that the administration is trying to roll back 
the current rule that prevents methane waste on public lands. 
And I think we have already proven that the energy sector can 
get behind dealing with this. Why are we trying to, you know, 
pull that back?
    Mr. Pearce. Senator, I am not familiar with the discussions 
that are going on right now. I have had very limited contact--
--
    Senator Hickenlooper. Well, let's say, would you support 
high standards, you know, in terms of methane waste prevention? 
Would you support that kind of, you know, public operation on 
public lands?
    Mr. Pearce. One of the things that I am just remotely 
familiar with since getting nominated is that there is a very 
large attempt to gather methane in particular fields and use it 
to generate data centers. In other words, using that methane in 
a productive fashion, that's something I would be very 
supportive of.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Of course, but I am talking about 
rolling back the existing regulations that are in place.
    Mr. Pearce. Again, I am not familiar with the reasons that 
the administration would be suggesting. I would be happy to 
look at it. I am happy to investigate it, but I don't know that 
I could comment on it right now.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Okay, thank you, appreciate it. I 
yield back to the Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Senator Hickenlooper.
    All right, I want to thank the witnesses for being here 
today, for answering our questions.
    A couple of housekeeping items before the end of the 
hearing. I want to ask consent to enter into the record 18 
letters of support for Congressman Pearce, signed by 30 
different groups. They range from the Navajo Nation to the New 
Mexico Association of Conservation Districts.
    Hearing no objection, those will be admitted into the 
record.
    [Letters of support for Mr. Pearce follow:]
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    The Chairman. Questions for the record of the hearing are 
due by 6:00 p.m. tomorrow evening, Thursday, February 26th.
    The record of the hearing will remain open for statements 
until 6:00 p.m. this coming Wednesday, a week from today, 
Wednesday, March 4th.
    Thank you to Ranking Member Heinrich and his staff and to 
members of the Committee.
    On behalf of the Committee, I am pleased to congratulate 
each of you on your nominations and look forward to working 
closely with each of you as we approach the moment where your 
nominations can move forward and proceed to the floor.
    I hope every Senator on the Committee will continue to work 
with me to encourage leadership on both sides of the aisle to 
bring these nominations to the floor as soon as possible.
    The Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:37 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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