[Senate Hearing 119-296]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 119-296

             BUILDING ON THE IIJA'S SUCCESSES: IDENTIFYING
                   OPPORTUNITIES TO STRENGTHEN WATER
                        INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAMS

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                             April 30, 2025
                               __________
                               

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works




                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                
                
                

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                               ______
                                 
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

62-895                    WASHINGTON : 2026        

        
        
        
        
        


               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

             SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman
            SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member

KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    MARK KELLY, Arizona
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 ALEX PADILLA, California
PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska              ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi         LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
JON HUSTED, Ohio


               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                  Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                             APRIL 30, 2025
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     1
Schiff, Hon. Adam, U.S. Senator from the State of California.....     3

                               WITNESSES

Dreyfuss-Wells, Kyle, Chief Executive Officer, Northeast Ohio 
  Regional Sewer District, on behalf of The National Association 
  of Clean Water Agencies........................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     8
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Markey...........................................    10
        Senator Blunt Rochester..................................    13
Goulette, Tom, City Administrator/Utility Superintendent, West 
  Point, Nebraska, on behalf of The National Rural Water 
  Association....................................................    16
    Prepared statement...........................................    18
    Responses to additional questions from Senator Blunt 
      Rochester..................................................    30
Oswald, Eric J., President, Association of State Drinking Water 
  Administrators.................................................    33
    Prepared statement...........................................    36
    Responses to additional questions from:
        Senator Markey...........................................    41
        Senator Blunt Rochester..................................    46

                          ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

Letter to Senator Capito and Senator Whitehouse from:
    Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies...................    63
    California Association of Sanitation Agencies................    72
Letter to the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works 
  from the Community Water Center................................    73








 
             BUILDING ON THE IIJA'S SUCCESSES: IDENTIFYING
                   OPPORTUNITIES TO STRENGTHEN WATER
                        INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAMS

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, APRIL 30, 2025

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:02 a.m. in 
room 562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore 
Capito (chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Capito, Sullivan, Ricketts, Boozman, 
Husted, Padilla, Schiff, Blunt Rochester, Alsobrooks.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Good morning, everybody. We are in our new 
temporary hearing room for several months, maybe as much as a 
year, while they remodel our hearing room. I think most of us 
would admit who have to walk behind the dais of our regular 
hearing room, it needs some readjustments. We are trying to get 
back to the way it was historically. We will be meeting here, 
and actually, this is a little bit larger than ours, so it is 
quite nice.
    I want to thank everybody for being here. I think Senator 
Whitehouse is unable to come today. I know he is very 
interested in this topic, but he is not going to be here. 
Senator Schiff is going to kind of run the show for his side, 
and we will be in and out. I do not want the witnesses to take 
any offense that people are in and out. There is lots going on 
today in various committees.
    I will give my opening statement, then Senator Boozman is 
going to take the gavel while I run out and over to Commerce. I 
am sure you have other meetings as well, too; everybody does.
    Welcome to the witnesses. Welcome to today's hearing to 
examine the policies to strengthen our Nation's water 
infrastructure. Again, I want to thank the witnesses for 
joining us, and the important work that you do every single day 
to deliver safe, reliable water and sanitation services in your 
various communities.
    This is our first hearing to discuss how we can build on 
the successes of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act 
(IIJA), the IIJA, the water infrastructure provisions, as we 
prepare bipartisan legislation to reauthorize those programs. 
In November 2021, Congress passed the IIJA, which included the 
Drinking Water and Wastewater Infrastructure Act, a bipartisan 
bill that was developed, negotiated, and championed by this 
committee. It is one of the bases of the IIJA.
    That legislation represented the largest Federal investment 
in water infrastructure in our Nation's history, delivering 
more than $50 billion for drinking water, wastewater, and 
stormwater programs. Since then, thousands of projects have 
started, including projects to upgrade treatment plants, 
replace aging systems and support the needs of our small 
communities. In short, this law is moving our Nation's water 
infrastructure systems forward.
    Despite this progress, the historic investment of the IIJA 
expires next year. We must get to work now to build on that 
progress, while addressing any concerns with its 
implementation.
    As we work together to reauthorize the IIJA water programs, 
I will prioritize policies that strengthen underserved 
communities' abilities to deliver water projects, reinforce the 
cooperative federalism principle embedded in our laws, and 
focus our outcomes on outcomes that prioritize safe water and 
sound infrastructure.
    I can say anecdotally in my small State of West Virginia 
there are still pockets of our communities that do not have the 
access to clean water or drinking water that they should, and 
deserve to have. Achieving those goals requires us to take a 
clear-eyed look at the challenges communities face and ensure 
the tools we are provided are as effective and as accessible as 
possible.
    First, we must seek to simplify the delivery mechanisms for 
water infrastructure funding. This is a repeating theme in just 
about everything that we have been looking at. Many small and 
underserved communities continue to face barriers to access to 
Federal money.
    Communities may struggle with capacity, technical 
complexities and long Federal timelines of dispersing the 
funding. This can lead to communities giving up before they 
even get a shovel in the ground.
    We can fix these issues by providing targeted technical 
resources and assistance to help utilities and local 
governments navigate complex funding applications and 
simplifying the Environmental Protection Agency's processes.
    Second, our reauthorization should reinforce what works, 
including honoring the foundational principle of cooperative 
federalism. For decades, the Clean Water Act and Safe Drinking 
Water Act have recognized that States, not Washington, are best 
positioned to understand the infrastructure needs of our 
communities. Federal funding and oversight are important, but 
implementation must be led by the States.
    The Biden Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, shifted 
away from that balance that Congress intended between Federal 
support and State leadership by pushing one-size-fits-all 
mandates and layering on new criteria that go far beyond what 
Congress has authorized.
    We have also seen the increased emphasis on environmental 
justice initiatives. While the goal of supporting all 
underserved communities regardless of background is broadly 
supported, implementation of these environmental justice 
initiatives has at times departed from the statute's original 
direction and strayed from that broader goal.
    Directing resources to underserved communities was a shared 
goal when we wrote the IIJA and the commitment remains. We did 
not write a law that allows agencies to introduce new 
eligibility standards or funding formulas that may 
unintentionally overlook real infrastructure needs or second 
guess shared priorities and State priorities. That approach is 
not only counterproductive; it risks leaving behind the very 
communities that these programs were designed to help.
    Across the Country, many low-income and underserved 
communities continue to grapple with major water infrastructure 
needs, yet rigid eligibility requirements in recent funding 
programs have left some of them behind. That runs counter to 
the bipartisan goals that we set when this law was written, to 
ensure all communities have a fair opportunity to benefit from 
these important programs. That is why we dedicated funds for 
systems of different sizes, and why we provided State Revolving 
Funds the flexibility for each State to meet their individual 
needs.
    This committee worked in a bipartisan way to craft these 
programs, and going forward, implementation must remain true to 
the intent, not drift into interpretations that complicate 
access or confuse applicants.
    My third guiding principle is that a successful bill and 
implementation of EPA water programs must be focused on 
outcomes. Enacting policies that are not consistently driven by 
successful outcomes will help ensure that every American, no 
matter where they live, can count on the basic services that 
they deserve. That is what the committee has always focused on 
and it is what I will continue to prioritize as the Chair.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and to kick 
up our work to reauthorize and improve our Nation's water 
infrastructure programs.
    I will now recognize Senator Schiff, the Ranking Member of 
the Fisheries, Water, and Wildlife Subcommittee, and as I have 
said earlier, he will give an opening statement in lieu of 
Ranking Member Whitehouse's absence.
    Senator Schiff, you are recognized. Thank you.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ADAM SCHIFF, 
           U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Senator Schiff. Thank you, Chair Capito, for your focus on 
improving community water infrastructure and for your hard work 
on the water provisions in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law 
that we are talking about today.
    I want to thank the witnesses for being here to discuss 
this important topic. As the Chair mentioned, Senator 
Whitehouse could not be here today, and I am happy to step in 
for him in my role as Ranking Member on the Fisheries, Water, 
and Wildlife Subcommittee.
    Reliable access to safe drinking water is a right, not a 
privilege. We all understand that we cannot survive without a 
safe and reliable supply of water. Yet there are far too many 
communities in my home State of California and across the 
Country that struggle with old, dilapidated water 
infrastructure and lead pipes. These systems need to be brought 
into the 21st century.
    We do not use lead in our water service lines any more, 
because we know that there is no safe level of lead in our 
water. Lead can cause fertility problems for men and women, 
high blood pressure, nervous system disorders, memory issues, 
and decreased kidney function. Lead exposure is especially 
dangerous for children. It can cause children to suffer from 
lowered IQ, behavioral problems, slowed growth, and hearing 
issues.
    We have known all this for a while now. It is why the U.S. 
Government has invested so much on a bipartisan basis on lead 
abatement. Yet more than nine million lead service lines run 
through communities across America. These pipes are not cheap 
to find, remove, and replace. I can tell you this: it remains 
absolutely necessary that we do so.
    This is not optional; it is not something that we can 
minimize or defund.
    Water systems across America are also grappling with the 
pervasive challenge of Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl substances 
(PFAS), contamination. Yorba Linda, California, is home to the 
largest PFAS water treatment plant in the Country, and 
California's water utilities have been ahead of the curve when 
it comes to investing in PFAS filtration.
    Our utilities, especially the ones in California's rural 
areas, desperately need Federal support to address PFAS and 
other contaminants. Aging water infrastructure not only 
threatens our public health, it also threatens our national and 
economic security.
    According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), 
there are more than 150,000 public drinking water systems in 
America. The U.S. Government Accountability Office has warned 
us they are all facing increasing cybersecurity related risks. 
These water systems tell Congress all the time that they are 
having to defend against consistent cybersecurity threats, and 
attacks from nation states like China and Iran, as well as from 
rogue cybercriminals. A successful large scale attack could 
have tragic and catastrophic results.
    Californians know that the United States is currently the 
global leader in Artificial Intelligence (AI), innovation and 
development. We want to keep it that way. It takes hundreds of 
billions of gallons of clean water, not to mention a lot of 
energy, to run data centers and manufacture microchips in the 
U.S. each year. If we do not provide the necessary support to 
ensure America has a water infrastructure system, a modern one, 
we risk ceding our economic and technological dominance to 
China.
    Much of the Nation's drinking water infrastructure is in 
need of repair or replacement. The EPA estimates that we will 
need to address at least $625 billion over the next 20 years to 
bring it up to par. Wastewater and stormwater systems will need 
another $630 billion.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law invested over $50 billion 
in our water. Thanks to this committee's work, communities are 
able to access financial support for water infrastructure that 
was previously out of reach through mechanisms like principal 
forgiveness or grants.
    Finally, I would be remiss if I did not emphasize that this 
is why we need a high functioning EPA. The current 
Administration has fired hundreds of EPA employees without 
cause, and is reportedly trying to fire potentially thousands 
more. The administrator has also clearly stated his intent to 
submit a huge budget cut to Congress.
    We need experts at EPA to implement funding for water 
infrastructure, to write reasonable science-based protective 
standards that keep contaminants out of our water, and to work 
with States and communities to ensure our water systems are 
ready to face modern challenges, especially as the changing 
climate puts added stress on water systems across the Nation.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law was a great start in 
providing needed investments to our community water systems. It 
must be just that: the start. To support healthy, thriving 
communities and global economic leadership, we must come 
together as we have before to deliver on this fundamental need.
    With that, I yield to the Chairman.
    Senator Boozman. [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Schiff.
    We will now turn our attention to the witnesses for their 
opening remarks. Our first witness is Kyle Dreyfuss-Wells, 
Chief Executive Officer of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer 
District. In this role, Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells works to provide 
regional sanitary and stormwater management services to more 
than one million residents in 63 communities across the Lake 
Erie Watershed.
    This morning, Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells is testifying on behalf of 
the National Association of Clean Water Agencies.
    I will now recognize Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells for five minutes 
for her opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF KYLE DREYFUSS-WELLS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 
   NORTHEAST OHIO REGIONAL SEWER DISTRICT, ON BEHALF OF THE 
          NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CLEAN WATER AGENCIES

    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman 
Boozman, Senator Schiff, and members of the Committee on 
Environment and Public Works. I am Kyle Dreyfuss-Wells, Chief 
Executive Officer of the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer 
District, a public utility serving Cleveland, Ohio and 62 
surrounding communities.
    We are also members of the National Association of Clean 
Water Agencies (NACWA), and I am NACWA's Treasurer.
    Thank you for inviting me to testify this morning about the 
importance of the Clean Water State Revolving Fund and the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The Northeast Ohio 
Regional Sewer District is one of the largest wastewater 
treatment and stormwater management utilities in Ohio, serving 
one million customers across 363 square miles of the Lake Erie 
watershed. We do this in 2025 with a $191 million annual 
operating budget and a $276 million capital program.
    The Clean Water State Revolving Funds (SRF), is an 
essential financing tool that helps us, and our member 
communities, to maintain the clean water infrastructure 
necessary to protect public health and the water quality on 
which the economic vitality of Northeast Ohio depends. Through 
my work with NACWA, I know that Northeast Ohio is not alone: 
the Clean Water State Revolving Fund (CWSRF), is critical for 
utilities and communities across the Country.
    IIJA's increases accelerated clean water investment, and 
NACWA strongly supports the Clean Water SRF reauthorization 
with IIJA funding levels as the baseline. As one of the largest 
users of the Clean Water SRF in Ohio, Northeast Ohio Regional 
Sewer District (NEORSD), has financed 111 wastewater projects 
to date. Our decision, beginning in the 1990's, to use the 
Clean Water SRF over other funding sources has resulted in 
significant savings.
    For example, our Shoreline Storage Tunnel is a $220 million 
project under our $3 billion federally mandated program to 
reduce combined sewer overflow. It is one of seven deep tunnels 
we are constructing, is 14,500 feet long, 23 feet in diameter 
and will eliminate 350 million gallons of Lake Erie pollution 
each year.
    It took us 5 years to construct, and we financed it through 
the Clean Water SRF at very favorable terms, 40 years at 1.57 
percent interest, while also deferring principal payments for 
20 years. If we compare this to realistic financing through 
bonds with less advantageous terms, 40 years at 3 percent 
interest over the length of this one loan alone, we estimate 
that this equates to $50 million in savings.
    Beyond these savings, we have found that the flexibility 
provided under the Clean Water SRF program brings great value 
to our ratepayers and customers as part of our overall effort 
for long-term rate control and stability. These flexibilities 
include below-market interest rates, deferred principal, 
extended terms, no need for offering documents or official 
statements, and no bond rating and bond counsel costs.
    It is these features of the Clean Water SRF program that 
set it apart and are particularly helpful for smaller, less 
sophisticated borrowers with limited exposure to debt 
financing.
    We are also grateful for the IIJA's inclusion of 
supplemental grant funding through principal forgiveness. This 
brought the Clean Water SRF to the attention of many of our 
member communities as they work to address the $3.4 billion in 
local clean water infrastructure needs impacting the quality of 
life of their residents.
    However, over the last 2 years working with our member 
communities, we have found that it is still difficult for them 
to access the fund. This is largely due to local governments' 
hesitancy to absorb additional debt, staffing capacity, and 
competing community priorities.
    To mitigate these barriers, in 2023 we began assisting our 
member communities. Maple Heights, Ohio is one example of a 
community that has received more than $875,000 in principal 
forgiveness since 2023 to address basement flooding and failing 
local infrastructure. They addressed 50 flooded basements and 
replaced 56,000 linear feet of sewers.
    As I close, I would also like to emphasize that our work in 
Northeast Ohio would not be possible without the commitment and 
innovation of Ohio EPA and the Ohio Water Development 
Authority. Together, these agencies implement the Ohio Clean 
Water SRF, and are continually working to make the program more 
accessible and usable for Ohio communities.
    The Clean Water SRF is an important and highly successful 
Federal, State, and local partnership that we can see is 
accelerating critical clean water investment.
    I appreciate the opportunity to testify and I look forward 
to the discussion.
    Thank you, Senator.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Boozman. Thank you.
    Our next witness is Tom Goulette. Mr. Goulette is the City 
Administrator and Utility Superintendent for the city of West 
Point, Nebraska. He has more than 40 years of experience in the 
utility industry and has served as Nebraska Rural Water's 
National Director since 2005.
    This morning, Mr. Goulette is testifying on behalf of the 
National Rural Water Association.
    Mr. Goulette.

   STATEMENT OF TOM GOULETTE, CITY ADMINISTRATOR AND UTILITY 
SUPERINTENDENT, CITY OF WEST POINT, NEBRASKA, ON BEHALF OF THE 
                NATIONAL RURAL WATER ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Goulette. Good morning, Chairman Boozman, Senator 
Ricketts, Senator Schiff, and members of the committee. My name 
is Tom Goulette, I am the President of the Nebraska Rural Water 
Association, which represents 467 rural water utilities, about 
92 percent of all systems serving under 10,000 people in 
Nebraska.
    I am here today on behalf of the National Rural Water 
Association, where I serve on the executive committee as 
treasurer. National Rural Water Association (NRWA), is the 
Country's largest utility association with over 31,000 members 
dedicated to drinking water, environmental protection, and 
public health in all 50 States.
    I come from the city of West Point, Nebraska, a rural 
community of about 3,500, roughly 30 miles north of Omaha, 
where there are more cattle than there are people. I serve our 
community as City Administrator and Utility Superintendent 
responsible for our water, wastewater, and electric utilities. 
We operate about 1,600 water meters, 1,900 electric meters, and 
employ 32 full-time staff. Four employees work in the water 
department.
    I started municipal work in the early 1980's as a 
maintenance laborer at a wastewater plant and worked my way up, 
gaining experience operating and evaluating facilities across 
the Country. Since then, I have spent the last 30 years helping 
small communities like mine address infrastructure challenges.
    In rural America, we do not have the luxury of passing the 
buck. During my time in West Point, we completely reconstructed 
our wastewater treatment plant with State Revolving Fund 
assistance, a loan we are close to paying off. Today, we are 
preparing to update that facility once again, using SRF 
financing.
    Most recently, we faced a serious problem with our water 
system. Our aging filters failed to remove iron and manganese, 
leading to discolored water across the community. Restaurants, 
schools, and our hospital had to install additional filtration 
or switch to bottled water. High levels of manganese can pose 
real public health risks, especially to the nervous system.
    Thanks to a low-interest drinking water SRF loan, 1.5 
percent interest plus a small administrative fee, and $553,000 
in principal forgiveness, we secured $2.76 million to replace 
our filters, piping, valves, controls, and install a backup 
generator. Without that assistance, our residents would be 
facing bills they simply could not afford.
    It is an honor to small, rural community perspective on the 
water provisions contained in the Infrastructure Investment and 
Jobs Act. For towns like West Point, the IIJA will make 
historic investments possible with funding that respects local 
leadership and helps us to be better public servants.
    Without meaningful grant assistance, the price of water and 
wastewater services would become unaffordable for working 
families. This assistance is imperative to prevent rural 
depopulation and a shrinking customer base, which in turn 
drives up the cost per household, especially as repairing and 
replacing aging infrastructure is getting harder every year, 
and the regulatory compliance landscape continues to grow more 
complex.
    That is why the technical assistance provisions you 
included in the IIJA are so important. Many small communities 
simply do not have the financial, managerial or technical 
capacity to access Federal programs on their own. Rural water 
has built a trusted network of local experts who help small, 
rural, disadvantaged and tribal communities meet EPA compliance 
standards, avoid penalties, and access SRF infrastructure 
funding.
    Without this technical assistance offered by each State 
rural water association, many communities would be left behind.
    Another major concern is PFAS regulation. Water systems 
across rural America support the removal of these harmful 
substances from the water supply. However, we did not put PFAS 
into the environment, and we should not be penalized for it. 
That is why we strongly support the Water Systems PFAS 
Liability Protection Act. This legislation upholds the polluter 
pays principle of the Superfund law while protecting water 
systems and their customers from devastating fees and cleanup 
costs.
    Last, the water sector work force crisis is growing. Over 
half of our skilled operators are expected to retire within the 
next decade. Thanks to the committee's leadership and Chairman 
Capito's longstanding support, rural water launched the first 
federally approved apprenticeship program for water and 
wastewater operators.
    Today, 34 State rural water associations have earned 
Federal approval of their apprenticeship programs. We have 
enrolled or graduated over 900 apprentices nationwide, and so 
far are actively training the next generation of operators who 
will be on the front lines of the public health protection in 
small and rural communities across the Country.
    Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Goulette follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Boozman. Thank you.
    Our final witness this morning is Eric Oswald, the Director 
of Drinking Water and Environmental Health Division of the 
Michigan Department of Environment Great Lakes and Energy. In 
2017, Mr. Oswald retired as a Colonel from the U.S. Air Force 
with 28 years of experience in construction, repair and 
maintenance of critical infrastructure. Mr. Oswald also serves 
as the President of the Association of State Drinking Water 
Administrators, and is testifying on their behalf today.
    Mr. Oswald.

STATEMENT OF ERIC OSWALD, PRESIDENT OF THE ASSOCIATION OF STATE 
                 DRINKING WATER ADMINISTRATORS

    Mr. Oswald. Thank you, members of the Environment and 
Public Works Committee, my name is Eric Oswald. I am the 
President of the Association of State Drinking Water 
Administrators (ASDWA), whose 57 members include the 50 State 
drinking water programs, five territorial programs, the Navajo 
Nation, and the District of Columbia, referred to in the 
remainder of this testimony as States.
    ASDWA's members work on the front lines every day to 
protect public health and ensure safe drinking water through 
the implementation of the Safe Drinking Water Act.
    I am also the Drinking Water Administrator for the State of 
Michigan; however, I would like to make it clear that my 
testimony today is on behalf of ASDWA, and that I am not 
testifying on behalf of the State of Michigan.
    Thank you for this opportunity to provide the perspective 
of ASDWA on this historic investment in drinking water 
infrastructure provided through the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law, or BIL. The provision of safe drinking water and 
investment in our Nation's drinking water infrastructure is 
paramount to economic development and public health protection. 
This testimony will highlight the nationwide State Drinking 
Water Program successes of the BIL investment and will provide 
recommendations that can streamline future infrastructure 
project implementation.
    BIL provides an unprecedented and much-needed investment in 
our Nation's drinking water infrastructure. This funding is 
stimulating long-overdue infrastructure projects that would not 
have otherwise been possible. These projects address a wide 
range of needed improvements and range in size from $43,000 to 
$65 million. Projects include basic upgrades to address 
longstanding needs to full-scale infrastructure overhauls, lead 
service line inventories and replacements, improvement of 
distribution systems and installation of treatment for PFAS and 
other emerging contaminants.
    In addition to the infrastructure projects, several States 
use portions of the funding for staff for both implementation 
of BIL projects and to address regulatory requirements that 
have been unfunded through a stagnant Public Water System 
Supervision (PWSS) grant and a decreasing Base, Drinking Water 
State Revolving Fund (DWSRF), capitalization grant. 
Importantly, Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), creates 
visibility and momentum around water infrastructure needs, and 
reinforces the role of DWSRF programs as trusted partners in 
long-term infrastructure resilience.
    The PWSS grant program is a critical funding source for 
State programs, but has not kept up with inflation and the 
costs associated with maintaining a State drinking water 
program. PWSS grants are used to support staff salaries, 
including inspectors, support staff, and engineers. With the 
expected end of bill in Fiscal Year 2026, States will 
experience major funding cuts, and without full restoration of 
State Revolving Fund based capital grants, States will have to 
begin cutting important programs and services.
    While the BIL funding is a historic investment in drinking 
water infrastructure, the needs dwarf the available funding. 
According to EPA's most recent needs survey, $625 billion is 
needed over the next 20 years to maintain and upgrade drinking 
water systems, underscoring the importance of continued Federal 
investment.
    Our recommendations, waivers. While BIL funding has been 
immensely beneficial, State programs have faced several 
challenges. Flexibility with future funding will be critical to 
achieving the goal of helping citizens and communities that 
need the funding the most. States and EPA must continue to work 
together to make funding applications streamlined, efficient, 
and simple.
    ASDWA recommends the development of waivers in limited 
circumstances for the requirements of the Buy America, Build 
America, and Davis-Bacon Acts to make these funds simpler to 
obtain for those most in need.
    Greater flexibility in how States meet subsidy requirements 
is essential. Current funding requires exact percentages for 
principal forgiveness, which creates administrative challenges. 
For example, 49 percent of funding for lead service line 
replacement must be provided as additional subsidy through 
principal forgiveness or grants. Allowing a range of up to a 
percentage rather than a fixed threshold would ease 
implementation.
    Future investments should allow States more discretion over 
project eligibility and priority. While dedicated funding for 
lead service line replacement and emerging contaminants is 
critical, the prescriptive nature of some bill funding limits 
the ability of States to fund projects that address more urgent 
local needs.
    An extended timeframe, ideally longer than 5 years, would 
also be beneficial for the States. A 5-year timeframe is not 
feasible for complex projects and the detailed funding 
requirements.
    The current funding approach results in a resource strain 
on States to administer and separately track multiple grants, 
each with unique requirements. To improve long-term success, 
future funding should be accompanied by streamlined Federal 
guidance and simplified reporting.
    Sustainability is critical for Federal and State funding 
programs as well. While the additional subsidy provided through 
BIL is essential, there may be unintended consequences of an 
over-reliance on grant funding. While BIL funding is 
substantial, we need to ensure the public water systems 
successfully operate and maintain their infrastructure. Systems 
using BIL funds should not view DWSRFs as a long-term financial 
strategy.
    The BIL funding should be viewed only as a first step in 
addressing the current and future needs of our drinking water 
infrastructure.
    Cybersecurity, again, is an important and challenging 
issue, due to limited resources and the lack of detailed 
knowledge across the sector. Federal oversight and leadership 
is needed to make the most efficient and impactful steps 
forward.
    Cybersecurity accountability must be approached 
holistically, recognizing that responsibility does not rest 
solely with the water sector.
    In closing, ASDWA and its members remain deeply committed 
to safeguarding our Nation's drinking water. We greatly 
appreciate BIL funding and have suggestions to maximize its 
impact nationwide, and look forward to working together to 
continue to protect the public health of all Americans.
    On behalf of ASDWA's members, I want to sincerely thank you 
for your continued investment in America's public water 
systems, and the people they serve. I would be happy to answer 
any questions you may have, and again, thank you for inviting 
me to speak today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Oswald follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Senator Boozman. Let's begin the questioning phase of the 
committee.
    Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I very much 
appreciate the opportunity to chime in on the subject at hand.
    In 2021, one of the first things we did in this committee, 
and you may recall, was pass the Drinking Water and Wastewater 
Infrastructure Act, which became the foundation for the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. I am especially proud that the 
BIL included provisions and it championed both water re-use and 
stormwater management, replaced lead service lines, and to 
prioritize technical assistance, which, Mr. Goulette, you spoke 
to this a minute ago, technical assistance for small systems 
that oftentimes struggle to be able to provide that for 
themselves.
    I am proud that the committee's bipartisan efforts became 
the largest single Federal investment in water infrastructure 
in history.
    Thanks to the IIJA, small water systems in Tulare County, 
for example, Senator Schiff and I both represent Tulare County, 
California, they can now treat pervasive contaminants in 
drinking water. Farmworker communities like those in Pajaro who 
can now rebuild their water systems after historic storms left 
the town completely underwater. The community of Colusa was 
able to install water meters and fire hydrants to prepare for 
inevitable western drought conditions.
    Whether they face fire, floods or droughts, or aging 
infrastructure and emerging contaminants, water systems and the 
customers they serve are now facing more than $1.2 trillion in 
infrastructure needs over the next two decades. As the 
witnesses today know better than most, ratepayers will bear the 
brunt of those costs, especially in small communities, rural 
communities, and tribal communities. By nature, they have much 
smaller rate bases.
    For many rural communities, including the tribal 
communities, farmworker communities that have spoken up and 
communities near sites of legacy industrial contaminants end up 
paying twice, in reality: once for the contaminated water that 
is flowing through their pipes, and once again for the much 
costlier bottled water that they are forced to rely on.
    It is hard to believe that in Fresno County, a typical 
family has to pay $280 a month for water that fails to comply 
with our Clean Drinking Water standards. It is one of the 
reasons I have been pushing for years for a permanent national 
water assistance program, just like we do for energy bills.
    My question, frankly, is for all of you, starting with Ms. 
Dreyfuss-Wells. As we examine the different ways to improve 
administration of the SRFs, bolster technical assistance, how 
could a permanent water assistance program help cushion the 
impact of infrastructure upgrades for water systems and the 
people that they serve?
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Thank you, Senator. Yes, very important 
to make sure that we bring all of our customers along with us. 
As you point out, low-income water assistance is very important 
to make sure that those folks who do have difficulty paying 
their bills have the support to be able to pay their bills.
    I will say that that at the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer 
District, our leadership has taken this seriously since 2009. 
We have had our own affordability programs. We work very hard 
to make sure that we connect eligible customers with those 
programs, which is another significant barrier.
    Low-income household water assistance is important to make 
sure that you bring all of your customers along with you and 
can keep the cost low for your utility across all of your 
ratepayers.
    Senator Padilla. I would like to hear from each of you.
    Mr. Goulette. To go along with that, many small communities 
already stretch their dollars. They are being forced to shelve 
projects just to make ends meet. We do not want them to become 
more disadvantaged because they feed us, they feed us into 
other systems, other programs.
    You know, keeping the rates competitive while making them 
reasonably desirable and affordable, I think that is the key.
    Mr. Oswald. Yes, I think those types of programs are 
incredibly important. I know they lessen the burden of 
regulatory authorities by providing technical and financial 
assistance to these smaller communities. We have many regional 
systems that do these programs on their own that try to give 
back and make water more affordable. It is a very big challenge 
for them.
    I know the Federal funding has made a huge impact for our 
systems.
    Senator Padilla. Just a followup question for you, Mr. 
Oswald. Correct me if I am wrong, but Federal investment in 
water infrastructure has declined, if my numbers are correct, 
by 77 percent since their peak in the 1970's. The Federal 
Governments' share in new infrastructure upgrades, let alone 
operations and maintenance, that is another whole conversation.
    How critical is Federal investment in water infrastructure 
for supporting water affordability?
    Mr. Oswald. It is incredibly important. It offsets 
ratepayer expenses; it can make more efficient investment 
across the board in drinking water. It has to be followed up. 
We have this incredible investment in infrastructure, we need 
to make sure we maintain that investment as well, and not 
ignore it as we go into the future, or we are going to be 
facing this problem again in 20, 30 years.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Boozman. I apologize; I woke up this morning with 
some sort of allergy thing. Hopefully my voice will hold up for 
a little bit.
    In Arkansas, we are finding ourselves in a position where 
IIJA lead service line funding is simply not being spent, and 
leftover funds will end up going to other States under current 
law. This is not because there is not a need for water 
infrastructure upgrades, but it is largely due to the 
requirement of the 50 percent match to grant funds and many 
small and disadvantaged communities simply can not come up with 
the funding.
    In a recent survey, the Arkansas Natural Resources 
Commission received over $5 billion in requests for water and 
wastewater projects. In other words, we have this tremendous 
need and could use any leftover lead service line replacement 
funding for traditional water infrastructure projects. Simply 
put, our needs are just different.
    Let's start with Mr. Goulette. You mentioned in your 
testimony small communities in Nebraska are having a similar 
program. Can you speak to your experience navigating the 
matching requirement and how increased flexibility, whether in 
eligible uses or match waivers, could help your community and 
others like it better meet their water infrastructure needs?
    Mr. Goulette. Sure. One of the struggles was the matching 
funds, as you mentioned, coming together for that purpose. 
Those communities will be taking those funds from somewhere 
else to bring that match to that water system.
    For us in West Point, we were fortunate enough where we did 
some planning, we did some set-asides and we were able to 
retire some debt early on, expecting the water project that we 
just completed. That was one of the big I guess proactive 
aspect of it. That is one of the things that we do on the rural 
water side, is we try to remain proactive, plan in advance of 
what the upcoming needs of the communities are as we did in 
West Point.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Yes, I think, Senator, to your point, 
the way that communities are able to get projects done is 
through long-term planning. Understanding the need in their 
community and then to your point, being able to actually build 
a project funding portfolio around any given project.
    What we have seen in Northeast Ohio is that our under-
resourced communities have actually been able to have the 
funding to be able to put together a plan. We have supported 
that at the sewer district. Then they can rely on IIJA 
principal forgiveness as well as State funding, as well as some 
funding from the sewer district, to put that together and meet 
those match requirements.
    Any reduction in those match requirements would help 
communities take advantage of this funding and get projects 
done.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Mr. Oswald.
    Mr. Oswald. Yes, I would agree with that. We need 
flexibility. The prescriptive 49 percent or 50 percent subsidy 
creates problems when actual construction costs come in and 
they differ from what the estimates were. We have found that to 
be an issue.
    It also prevents communities from doing a dig once, if they 
have to defer those lead service line, or execute those lead 
service line replacements apart from water main replacements, 
and creates an unnecessary burden on the community to dig up 
roads more than one time.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    For all of you, can you give us one or two examples from 
your community where recent Federal or State investments made a 
measurable difference in water or wastewater infrastructure? 
Based on those experiences, what improvements could help ensure 
funding reaches the communities that need it most and is used 
as effectively as possible?
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Senator, I will give two examples. I 
talked about Maple Heights, Ohio, which is a very typical 
Cleveland first-ring suburb, under-resourced community that has 
taken a very deliberate approach to deal with its financial 
issues. They were able, through the Infrastructure Investment 
and Jobs Act principal forgiveness, as I said, to address 
basement flooding and failing sewers in their streets.
    When we are talking about basement flooding, we are talking 
about sewage in people's basements, which is really the first 
line of a public health issue that needs to be addressed. Maple 
Heights, Ohio, has had significant success, Richmond Heights as 
well, addressing flooded streets, basement flooding, through 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. It has been a 
wonderful resource for those communities.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Mr. Goulette. Senator, I do not have a good answer for you 
on that at this time. I would have to defer back to our State 
primacy agency and get that information back to you.
    Mr. Oswald. I am going to use the example of Benton Harbor, 
Michigan, where a cooperative effort between the local 
citizens, the State of Michigan, and the Federal EPA resulted 
in the elimination of all lead service lines in the community 
over a year timeframe. That would not have been possible 
without this infrastructure funding. That was a great example 
of how cooperative federalism and everybody working in 
partnership can make a huge impact on a community.
    Senator Boozman. Very good.
    Senator Schiff.
    Senator Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Oswald, during the last Administration, EPA issued the 
first-ever legally enforceable drinking water standard for 
PFAS, forever chemicals. In California, many of our water 
systems were already working on this issue and started 
investing in PFAS filtration years before the regulation.
    Nevertheless, both in California and around the Country, 
the need to continue focusing on getting PFAS out of our water 
is overwhelming and it is expensive. How would you prioritize 
the need to remove PFAS, that is given that the cost of removal 
is extraordinary, the cost of not removing it is far greater?
    Nevertheless, how do we triage that problem? How do we 
identify where we make those investments first?
    Similarly, the cost of getting all the lead out is 
extraordinary. It is well beyond anything we put in the 
Infrastructure Bill. How do we triage that problem as well?
    Mr. Oswald. For PFAS, we have been testing for PFAS for 
over 5 years now. The first step is to know where it is at. We 
take a balanced approach to systems that exceed Per- and 
Polyfluoroalkyl substances Maximum Containment Levels, PFAS 
MCLs. We first look at their source water to see if they can 
change source water.
    We then look to see if there is a community near them that 
they could hook up to that maybe does not have the PFAS issue 
and foster a regional approach to PFAS.
    Then obviously, to treatment, which can be extremely 
expensive. Then you have to deal with the waste product of that 
treatment as well.
    Lead service lines, again, is a huge balancing act. It is 
incredibly expensive. When we started in Michigan, I think the 
average cost was $5,000 to remove a lead service line. It is 
upwards of $8,000 to $10,000 now. You have to balance that 
investment against investments in distribution systems and 
water treatment plant upgrades.
    I think a balanced approach and a given timeline is the 
best way to address that so we do not bankrupt the checkbook 
with removing all these lead service lines at once, with 
upgrading water treatment plants and doing things on that end 
of the scale.
    Again, it is a balanced approach, and like you said, it is 
triage. It is looking at what we can do in a reasonable manner 
and a reasonable timeframe, not on the backs of ratepayers in 
totality, but to use a balanced approach of funding.
    Senator Schiff. Opening up the question to the other 
witnesses, what is the State of the treatment to remove PFAS? 
Are we able to remove all PFAS chemicals or only certain PFAS 
chemicals? How do we deal with the waste that is created as a 
result? Can you shed some light on that?
    Mr. Goulette. For Nebraska and rural water systems, it 
becomes an economy of scale as to what that financial impact 
would be to the users. For example, we have a small community 
just south of us, about 240 residents, that have a significant 
PFAS showing up in their drinking water system. They have two 
wells. Both of those wells were equal in showing up PFAS.
    It would be more economical for them to hook onto another 
water system, or to find another water source, rather than go 
through a treatment process and require the disposal and 
everything else that goes along with the PFAS.
    Senator Schiff. If that water that is PFAS contaminated, 
let's say they do not use it for drinking water, can that water 
be used for anything else? If it is used for irrigation, does 
that simply move the PFAS into the food that they eat?
    Mr. Goulette. Well, I think it moves it back into the food 
chain. We are a farming community, there is a lot of 
agriculture around there. I think that would absorb the PFAS 
and we would have other issues.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Senator, I would add two things. From 
the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District's perspective, PFAS 
has not emerged as a significant issue in our watersheds. We 
are preparing for it as an emerging contaminant, and have been 
able to access through the IIJA's Emerging Contaminants funding 
some dollars to look at landfill leachate, as a treatment 
process for landfill leachate, which can be a potential source 
of PFAS.
    Then also some additional laboratory equipment to make sure 
we can analyze the products coming to us.
    I will say from NACWA's perspective, we are very focused on 
dealing with PFAS a is source, which are those companies that 
are producing PFAS, as opposed to having that burden come to 
public wastewater treatment facilities, where we are really the 
end of the conversation, not the beginning.
    Senator Schiff. Do any of you have a sense of the State of 
the technology? Is it capable of removing all the different 
forms of PFAS? Or are we still not there yet?
    Mr. Oswald. We are there. I think we can remove all the 
PFAS. You have reverse osmosis; you have activated carbon. It 
is how you deal with that waste stream that you generate as 
well, do you send it to a landfill, how do you deal with that 
waste stream so you are not reintroducing it into the 
environment and creating more problems?
    We can treat it, we can get it down. It is expensive and 
you have to deal with the waste.
    Senator Schiff. Where is the research being done? Is that 
something that Congress can further augment to determine what 
is the most cost effective way, protective way to handle the 
waste that results from that filtration process?
    Mr. Oswald. We rely heavily on EPA's Office of Research and 
Development for that type of expertise to do that research and 
inform us on what the best methodologies are and what the 
impacts are.
    Senator Schiff. One last question on lead. In terms of 
triaging the lead problem, I assume that the severity of the 
problem in a particular venue depends on the degradation of the 
pipe but also the acidity of the water. What should that tell 
us if anything about how we triage that problem? Is it just a 
matter of testing the water to see where the combination of 
those factors produces the worst result? Or are there other 
ways to do an analysis of the sort of the State of different 
pipes, so that we can identify which to replace first?
    Mr. Oswald. We can study pipes, and we do that through pipe 
loop studies. There is a lot of research on that.
    The bottom line is we have to get the lead out of the 
system. We can treat the water and make it non-corrosive, but 
you are just one instance away or one accident away from 
creating an issue where the water gets very acidic for a 
certain period of time and leaches or takes that protective 
coating off the lead pipes.
    We can do a lot of treatment on the positive side for 
corrosion control treatment. Again, it is a band-aid on the 
problem. We have to get the lead out of the system, and we have 
to deal, to a certain extent, with premise plumbing, too, 
because you have a lot of lead inside houses in the form of 
solder or fixtures that can also create a problem. We have had 
systems that have absolutely no lead service lines and they 
still have lead action level exceedances because of this 
premise plumbing.
    Senator Schiff. Got you. Thank you very much, Chairman.
    Senator Boozman.
    Senator Alsobrooks.
    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank 
you so much to our witnesses for being here today.
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law has been really 
transformative for our water infrastructure across the Country, 
most especially in a place like Maryland. The funding Congress 
provided supports a range of key programs which finance 
critical upgrades to wastewater and drinking water systems, 
also enhances stormwater and flood resilience infrastructure 
and invests as well in lead pipe replacement and water system 
sustainability.
    These programs have been absolutely transformative in 
Maryland. It has really helped Maryland to modernize its 
infrastructure, to reduce pollution and deliver clean, safe 
water to communities, especially those who have historically 
faced economic barriers.
    I look forward to working with this committee to build on 
the success of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law. The few 
questions that I have, the first one will be for Mr. Oswald and 
Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. The Bipartisan Law provided funding to 
solve longstanding water infrastructure problems and address 
some of the most pressing public health challenges in our 
communities. In Maryland, State Revolving Fund supports 
projects that improve drinking water, removed lead service 
lines in Baltimore and stopped sewer backups in basements to 
keep wastewater out of the Chesapeake Bay.
    Now, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, as we know, was a 
critical down payment on upgrading our Nation's water 
infrastructure. What we know is that it was just that; it was a 
down payment. The question for you all is, let me just say 
first of all that if we do not reauthorize the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law programs that continue to provide funding, 
the gap in Maryland between resources and necessary investments 
would be about $125 million per year.
    The question is, Mr. Oswald and Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells, would 
you both speak to what it would mean for your organizations and 
for drinking water and clean water systems across the Country 
if the Federal Government ceases to partner in this effort?
    Mr. Oswald. I will tell you we have a tremendous backlog of 
deferred repair and maintenance and replacement in our drinking 
water infrastructure, similar to our highways. The tougher 
problem with drinking water is it is out of sight; it is out of 
mind.
    We tend to let that infrastructure go until the point that 
it fails. We have systems that are over 80 to 100 years old in 
our distribution systems. Those need to be replaced. The 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is a mechanism to downgrade or 
down pay, get a down payment on that backlog and get that 
backlog reduced or eliminated, in most cases.
    Personally, as a State and as State drinking water 
administrators, we have to do a better job with asset 
management. Once we get that backlog taken care of, and it is a 
huge backlog, we have to do a better job of making sure that 
our systems use proper asset management to make sure that 
investment does not go to waste, that we do not ignore it for 
the next 50 years, that we continue to maintain and operate it 
as needed so we can protect that investment.
    Again, it is like your car. You can change the oil like you 
need to and it will last a long time. You run that car for 
20,000 miles and then change the oil, change the engine, it 
gets a lot more costly. It is a combination of things. We need 
the Bipartisan Infrastructure funding to get rid of the 
backlog, and then we need to do a better job of maintaining 
that system.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Senator, what I would add to that, yes, 
obviously there is a huge backlog. You talked about Maryland's 
backlog. Communities have this across the Country. We need to 
have the funding to address those issues and to address the 
issues going forward.
    I also want to highlight that the Clean Water SRF is a 
financing tool, that communities need that consistency, they 
need to know it is there, so that they can do their long-term 
financial planning, they can build a package of financing 
around a particular project. That is how we deliver projects 
efficiently.
    I know it is a bit of a snooze, but project management is 
the silver bullet. The Clean Water SRF is essential to that 
project management, because it is the lowest cost of borrowing 
for utilities across the Country. That is essential.
    Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. I see the time is gone. I will 
just ask quickly about the Chesapeake Bay. This is for Mr. 
Oswald.
    As the largest estuary in the United States, the Chesapeake 
Bay is a critical source of drinking water. However, the Bay 
has been under stress for decades due to pollution and climate 
change significantly impacting water quality and affordability 
in the Bay. For this reason and many others, there are ongoing 
efforts to restore and protect the Bay.
    Just quickly, would you discuss how protecting the 
Chesapeake Bay lowers the cost and increases the availability 
of drinking water in communities?
    Mr. Oswald. Obviously, source water protection is 
foundational in the drinking water business. We try to be very 
protective of our water sources, be they surface water or 
groundwater. Protecting those surface waters lowers the bill 
for everybody, because you do not have to treat as much. You 
eliminate things like harmful algal blooms that can sicken a 
lot of people very quickly.
    Investing in that with our Clean Water partners is huge to 
reduce nutrient loads on bodies of water like that, and reduce 
the pollution going into that from PFAS, microplastics or 
whatever other emerging contaminant you want to talk to.
    Yes, source water protection is huge.
    Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.
    Senator Capito. [Presiding.] Thank you. I am back, and 
ready to ask a couple of questions. Thank you all for your 
patience.
    I mentioned, Mr. Goulette, this is for you, I mentioned in 
my opening statement several times the challenges of rural 
communities in facing these infrastructure challenges. Many of 
the systems, if there are existing systems, are so old. The one 
thing that has always bothered me about our systems in West 
Virginia is the leakage. I am sure that is from ancient and 
old, or not ancient, but very old technologies.
    Anyway, based on your experience, what are the greatest 
challenges that rural communities face? What policies should we 
prioritize to provide additional support or technical tools to 
help people address these issues?
    Mr. Goulette. The greatest thing we see in Nebraska 
specifically, and pretty much across the Nation, is the 
geographic isolation of those small systems. Being able to, for 
example, I have Nebraska rural water circuit riders go out and 
assist those programs, those systems, especially when there is 
that lack of economy of scale and untrained operators. We see 
so much turnover in that field also right now.
    The other thing we are spending a lot of time with is 
educating the local governments in those small communities. 
There is such a significant turnover, and that ever changing 
regulatory environment also plays a part in that.
    Senator Capito. Right. With your circuit riders, do you 
feel like they are stretched too thin? Or do they have enough, 
I mean, obviously everybody always wants more. Let's just say 
in a practical sense, are they able to cover the State of 
Nebraska sufficiently?
    Mr. Goulette. Yes, I think we do an excellent job. We have 
three drinking water circuit riders that run around the State 
of Nebraska, they average about 30,000, 35,000 miles a year, 35 
contacts a month. They are there, basically on an on-call basis 
also to assist those systems when they are in need of some type 
of help or environmental issues that impact their systems.
    Senator Capito. Okay, good. Thank you.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells, I want to talk about the cooperative 
federalism principles that I outlined in my opening statement. 
From your experience, administering projects funded by State 
Revolving Funds, could you discuss that importance for the 
States to maintain their flexibility to prioritize what best 
meets their needs?
    The other issue, and I do not know if you can address this, 
is the issue of financing large projects, a State Revolving 
Fund in many cases is only one portion of this. You could have 
other State sources or Federal sources or county resources, but 
also the ratepayer is always gone back to for rate increases. 
That is really difficult for communities as they try to face 
this.
    First of all, talk about the importance of maintaining 
flexibility, and then any other kind of creative ideas that you 
have run into on the financing aspect.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Thank you, Senator. I think Ohio is 
such a great example of this flexibility. As I said, the Ohio 
EPA and the Ohio Water Development Authority run our clean 
water SRF. They have for years taken a very innovative approach 
to make sure that they understand the needs of communities, and 
that they are structuring financing packages to meet those 
needs.
    As I said, we have worked with them since the 1990's and 
they have evolved every year, looking at our capital plan, 
looking at the capital plan of other communities like Columbus, 
what can they do to be flexible. This idea of structured loans 
with deferred principal payments, this is something that they 
came up with.
    Your point is spot on in terms of States need to have that 
flexibility to implement their programs, to meet the needs of 
the communities.
    Senator Capito. Right. Well, I'm certain that certain 
portions of Ohio are a lot like our more rural areas down in 
the southern part of Ohio, southeastern Ohio, it is probably 
very similar to West Virginia.
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Absolutely. I will just say that is 
where the technical assistance is so important because as you 
know, we are talking about a township trustee. Maybe they have 
a township administrator. They probably have a consulting 
engineer if they are lucky.
    That consulting engineer is going to have to put that 
funding package together and they need to have the technical 
support to write a project application that is going to get 
funded.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    I am not really sure who this question would be best 
addressed by, so I will throw it up to all three of you. In the 
water portion of the bill, there was some remediations for lead 
and lead pipes. Part of the issue, I believe, that we have run 
into is how far does that money go.
    Does it go to the edge of the yard and then the homeowner 
is in charge of it? Does it go into the house? What have you 
found in that, and how can we--I think we acknowledge that we 
are not going to get to where we want it to go with the 
ambitious program that was put forward.
    Does anybody have any experience with that that they would 
want to talk about?
    Mr. Oswald. Yes, I can address that a little bit. There is 
a private side for lead service lines. Obviously usually at the 
curb stop, you have a valve you can shut off. In most cases, 
from the valve to the home is privately owned. The rest of it, 
up to the water main, is publicly owned.
    To coordinate those two can be extremely difficult.
    Senator Capito. Yes, because the homeowner could own the 
lead part of it.
    Mr. Oswald. They could. They could refuse permission to the 
water system to come in and replace that. Most States have 
outlawed partial service line replacements, because it can 
create issues. If the homeowner declines, then you are stuck, 
you can not replace anything.
    It is very, very problematic. That private and public 
ownership, that we do not run into, say, in the electricity or 
natural gas, it is just an oddity. In Michigan, we require the 
systems to replace the whole service line at their expense to 
eliminate environmental justice issues where a homeowner that 
could pay for their side gets the whole thing replaced, whereas 
a homeowner that can not afford that, they do not get any lead 
service line replacement. That is a huge challenge.
    The States differ on what laws govern that, whether you can 
pay ratepayer funds to replace that private side.
    Senator Capito. Right. Does anybody have another comment on 
that?
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. I am sorry, Senator, I am bouncing in 
my seat to comment on that. Very much an issue on the lead 
service line, not my area of expertise, but it is also an issue 
on the sewer side. Much of the infiltration, the inflow and 
infiltration that we have of leaking of sanitary and storm 
sewers, there is a big component on the private side.
    The only thing I will add is that this is where trust comes 
in between utilities and their customers, making sure that 
folks know who you are before you come to their homes to ask to 
be able to do work on the private side. That is something that 
we very much focused on in Northeast Ohio.
    Senator Capito. All right, thank you.
    Senator Ricketts.
    Senator Ricketts. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
    Welcome, everybody, to all of our witnesses today. I 
appreciate your taking the time. Tom, great to have you here, 
to be able to represent Nebraska.
    Tom brings just a wealth of information to this committee. 
If there is a job involving water in the State of Nebraska over 
the last 40 year, Tom has done that job. He has been obviously 
currently in West Point, a great community there in Cumming 
County. Just the depth of expertise is amazing.
    I am actually going to read off some of this stuff because 
it is pretty impressive. He served as chairman of the 
Governor's Advisory Council for Drinking Water, chairman of the 
Municipal Energy Agency of Nebraska, chairman of the League of 
Nebraska Utilities Section, and president of the Nebraska Rural 
Water, just to name a few. You are currently chairman of the 
League of Municipalities Small Cities Legislative Committee. 
Say hi to Lynn for me when you get back.
    Mr. Goulette. I will do that.
    Senator Ricketts. If you are not busy enough, you are 
engaged in very civic engagements, where you have served as the 
utility superintendent for the city of West Point sine 1993, 
and added City Administrator to your business card in 2001. You 
still have both those titles today, right?
    Mr. Goulette. Yes.
    Senator Ricketts. Yes, so it just shows, again, in small 
towns, people wear a lot of hats.
    Before the committee today, your post is to Nebraska Rural 
Water Association. You have been on the board there since 2005 
and are currently serving on the executive committee. Thank you 
again, Tom, for being here. We really, really appreciate your 
experience that you bring to this committee.
    Mr. Goulette. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Ricketts. Welcome. What I would like to talk a 
little bit about is many small and rural communities face 
significant challenges in accessing and managing the Federal 
infrastructure dollars due to limited staffing and technical 
expertise. We saw this in other areas as well, like the 
Department of Transportation and so forth.
    When we met in February, the Nebraska Rural Water 
Association shared some of these barriers. What types of 
resources or policy changes could Congress consider making to 
Federal programs to make them more efficient for small and 
rural communities?
    Mr. Goulette. A lot of it comes down to simplifying the 
application requirements for those small communities. Typically 
they know best what their needs are going to be when it comes 
to upgrading their systems or changing the equipment and that 
type of thing, along with the assistance from the Nebraska 
Rural Water Association, our circuit riders are there lending 
assistance and quantifying that.
    Then once they get to that point, once they can get to some 
type of formulation of what that community needs, that is when 
an application needs to go in. Then that should allow for some 
additional engineering, then, at that stage, once that product 
is identified and the community can have some buy-in, for lack 
of a better term.
    The other thing is that reducing those match requirements, 
a lot of the small, rural communities, they stretch every 
dollar they have. When they are looking at this and they are 
looking at the match requirements to comply with that, it 
becomes difficult. Then they have to balance out where their 
priorities lie within the financial capabilities of that 
community.
    Some of those projects get put on the shelf, then, at that 
point.
    Senator Ricketts. [Presiding.] Yes, and that is not 
necessarily true for West Point, because West Point is really 
doing well, but what we see, is it fair to say in a lot of our 
rural communities we see that it as the younger people move 
away and you are left with declining population of older folks, 
that just adds to the complication of being able to get these 
water projects done?
    Mr. Goulette. It does, and along with that is our aging 
work force. We see a lot of operators aging out, those are one 
and two-man operations. Once that legacy leaves that community, 
they are difficult to replace. That makes the challenge even 
more difficult to help sustain that community.
    Senator Ricketts. Again, is there something we can do in 
Congress to be able to help with some of those work force 
challenges?
    Mr. Goulette. One of the things is the apprenticeship 
program that Senator Capito put in place a few years ago. We 
need to get hat moving in Nebraska. We need to get that funding 
moving in Nebraska, we need to get an apprenticeship program 
and start that process to engage those communities and show 
them options, bring trained operators to the facilities.
    Senator Ricketts. Yes. Can you just give us briefly just 
how some of these Federal funding programs have made otherwise 
cost-prohibitive projects in small towns and rural communities 
possible?
    Mr. Goulette. Yes, basically when you are looking at the 
projects themselves, you are looking at the market base on 
interest rates and that type of thing and the longevity, it 
makes it more economically feasible for those small 
communities. There is the grant basis that they also can 
qualify for, which also helps them.
    Senator Ricketts. Can you give me an example of a specific 
project off the top of your head?
    Mr. Goulette. The easiest example right now is the city of 
West Point. We did the water project here a few years ago where 
we had a $2.7 million water treatment plant. Of that $2.7 
million, $553,000 of that was loan forgiveness. Then in 
addition to that was the 1.5 percent interest rate plus the 
administrative fee for the State.
    It makes it very economically feasible to get those 
programs in place, rather than going out to the open market.
    Senator Ricketts. All right, great. Well, oh, we lost our 
Chair. I guess I am in charge on the Republican side now.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Ricketts. I am going to take a moment just to talk 
a little bit as well about an important project, not 
specifically related to drinking water, but access to water in 
general in our State is obviously important. We are the largest 
irrigating State in the Country.
    I was just in Scotts Bluff last week, and the Gering-Fort 
Laramie Canal collapsed while I was Governor, and we worked to 
get some temporary repairs in place there. It is owned by the 
Bureau of Reclamation, but through a program they built the 
canal there 100 years ago, and when it collapsed, it cutoff 
about 55,000 acres of Nebraska farm land from getting 
irrigation water. That obviously is just huge for a State like 
Nebraska, where irrigation is big, but also agriculture is our 
biggest industry in the State.
    We are going to be looking for opportunities to be able to 
have the Federal Government partner to be able to get the 
permanent repairs on that done, because right now it is 
operating at about 80 percent capacity. I was just talking to 
folks about it, again, just getting to this idea of like how 
expensive it is for these projects and how, with the drinking 
water and make it possible in West Point, but the cost it would 
be for those farmers to be able to pay the extra fees to be 
able to get those total repairs done would be really, really 
challenging.
    That is another project, another example of how the Federal 
Government can help partner with States and local communities 
to be able to get these water projects done.
    With that, Senator Schiff, you have already asked your 
questions, is that accurate or no?
    Senator Schiff. I did, yes.
    Senator Ricketts. I see we have now Senator Blunt 
Rochester. We will turn it over to you.
    Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you 
to the witnesses. Sorry I am in between hearings. I think a lot 
of people are running around, so hopefully none of my questions 
have been asked.
    I really do believe this is such a critical hearing, 
particularly building on the successes of IIJA and I am 
grateful that we are also focusing specifically on water 
infrastructure. Many people might not know that Delaware, even 
though we are a small State, we are actually urban, suburban, 
rural and coastal. Our water issues are very much a microcosm 
of the Country.
    In Delaware, we were really pleased, particularly for our 
rural communities to have places like Seaford, Delaware, where 
they were awarded a $2.1 million loan from IIJA to replace a 
70-year old drinking water main line containing lead 
components. It has been critical to our communities, because of 
the removal of lead, the reduction of PFAS in drinking water, 
and also helping make water more affordable for families.
    My first question is for Mr. Goulette. I understand that 
many water systems in your association serve fewer than 10,000 
people. Can you speak to how critical IIJA's infusion of 
Federal funding is to small systems?
    Mr. Goulette. Yes, thank you for that. Basically it helps 
with the geographic isolation of the communities. That is one 
of the keys with the small, rural systems. We have people 
physically going out and providing help and technical 
assistance.
    Once we get out there, we can expose them to the IIJA 
capabilities and what they can do for the communities. They 
have somebody that they can lean on to followup and put those 
programs into place for those small systems. That is the key.
    Senator Blunt Rochester. I heard you mention work force. I 
think that is key as well, and the idea of apprenticeships and 
would love to followup with you after the hearing specifically 
on that issue.
    Now I would like to switch to lead service lines. As some 
of my colleagues have noted, the replacement of lead service 
lines are major projects that the public may not be aware of. I 
think a lot of times people just hear lead in pipes, and they 
think of the pipes in their home.
    These are pipes that are often deep under the property of a 
person's home or a roadway, and it requires excavation of 
streets and land to replace. These are expensive projects.
    Mr. Oswald, based on your experience with the State of 
Michigan, how has IIJA funding helped accelerate the pace of 
lead service line replacement projects compared to pre-IIJA 
funding levels?
    Mr. Oswald. IIJA BIL funding has been instrumental. We 
would not have a ghost of a chance at getting lead service 
lines out of the inventory without it, if we were just relying 
on State funds and ratepayer funds.
    Again, the cost of lead service line replacement is not 
cheap. You are talking about $10,000 per lead service line. It 
is incredibly expensive. Without the Federal funds to get 
through this, and it is a one-time cost, that is the nice thing 
about it. Once we get rid of those, they are out of the system. 
We just have to buckle down and get them out of the system, and 
then move to other things.
    Yes, the BIL funding, we are not going to get to our goal. 
In Michigan, we want to be lead-free by 2037. We are not going 
to get there without cooperative federalism and cooperation 
between the State, the locals, and the Federal Government. Just 
will not happen.
    Senator Blunt Rochester. Yes, and I think that cooperation 
also makes me think of the ultimate goal of healthy families as 
well.
    I am going to turn now to Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. The National 
Association of Clean Water Agencies are strong advocates for 
water infrastructure dollars that support households struggling 
to make ends meet and avoid disconnection. I was able to get a 
program to address water affordability authorized in the IIJA. 
The study that I pushed for EPA to complete found that nearly 
19 million households have trouble affording clean water. For 
families experiencing poverty, being able to afford the 
nationwide average of $42 a month for water utilities can be a 
struggle.
    Can you discuss how the inability for customers to pay for 
water bills actually hurts the ability of utilities to serve 
the communities they are in?
    Ms. Dreyfuss-Wells. Thank you, Senator. That is exactly 
right. The goal of any utility provider on water, wastewater, 
stormwater side is to make sure that you are bringing all of 
your customers along with you. Having the Low-Income Households 
Water Assistance program there to help folks pay some of those 
bills is very important.
    Then also making sure that your own utility has a focus on 
that customer service, bringing your customers so that they can 
apply for and receive that assistance that is available. It is 
something that we are very focused on at the National 
Association and very focused on at the Sewer District.
    Senator Blunt Rochester. Great. Thank you so much.
    I have other questions I will submit for the record, but 
thank you, and I yield back.
    Senator Capito. [Presiding.] Thank you. Senator Ricketts, 
did you have another question, or are you good?
    Okay. I think we are all good. As I said, if is very busy 
here on Capitol Hill. Some folks had intended to come, I am 
sure you will hear from them.
    With no further questions, I want to thank the witnesses 
and all my colleagues for their participation in todays 
hearing. I really look forward to writing the Drinking Water 
and Wastewater Infrastructure Act (DWWIA), bill coming up. I 
think we are starting early.
    I think that is the smart way to do it. We could not do it 
without you all helping us. I really appreciate this.
    Senators who wish to submit written questions for the 
record have until 5 p.m. on Wednesday, May 14th to do so. The 
witnesses' responses to those questions are due back to the 
committee no later than 5 p.m. on Wednesday, May 28th. They 
will be submitted for the record.
    With that, this hearing is adjourned, and thank you all 
very much.
    [Whereupon, at 11:17 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
                               [all]