[Senate Hearing 119-271]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-271
ANOTHER BIDEN BLUNDER:
MISSING UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN CHILDREN
AND CRIMINAL SPONSORS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON BORDER SECURITY
AND IMMIGRATION
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
__________
Serial No. J-119-40
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.judiciary.senate.gov
www.govinfo.gov
_______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-654 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois,
JOHN CORNYN, Texas Ranking Member
MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
TED CRUZ, Texas AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri ALEX PADILLA, California
KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama PETER WELCH, Vermont
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
Kolan Davis, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Joe Zogby, Democratic Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration
JOHN CORNYN, Texas, Chair
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina ALEX PADILLA, California,
TED CRUZ, Texas Ranking Member
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
Franci Rooney Becker, Republican Chief Counsel
Ursela Ojeda, Democratic Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
----------
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Cornyn, Hon. John................................................ 1
Durbin, Hon. Richard J........................................... 7
Padilla, Hon. Alex............................................... 5
WITNESSES
Clem, Chris...................................................... 9
Prepared statement........................................... 34
Responses to written questions............................... 55
Giovagnoli, Mary E............................................... 13
Prepared statement........................................... 38
Responses to written questions............................... 57
Hopper, Ali...................................................... 15
Prepared statement........................................... 49
Responses to written questions............................... 62
APPENDIX
Items submitted for the record................................... 69
ANOTHER BIDEN BLUNDER:
MISSING UNACCOMPANIED ALIEN
CHILDREN AND CRIMINAL SPONSORS
----------
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
United States Senate,
Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice at 2 p.m., in Room
226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Cornyn, Chair of
the Subcommittee, presiding.
Present: Senators Cornyn [presiding], Britt, Moody,
Padilla, Klobuchar, Hirono and Booker.
Also present: Senator Durbin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS
Chair Cornyn. I call to order this hearing of the Senate
Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on Border Security and
Immigration. Senator Padilla and I are, of course, Chair and
Ranking Member, and we are actually anticipating the presence
of Senator Grassley, the Chairman of the full Committee, and
Senator Durbin, perhaps as well.
So, when they come, we'll be happy to accommodate them and
listen to their statement. The purpose of today's hearing is to
determine what the consequences have been of the failure that
occurred on President Biden's watch, the tragic and
irresponsible treatment of hundreds of thousands of migrant
children.
President Biden literally lost track of more than 320,000
unaccompanied children, sometimes called UACs, unaccompanied
children, who are somewhere we hope still in the United States.
Some of them may no longer be living, we don't know and they
don't know what happened to them, and obviously they do not
appear to have care.
The Biden Administration released many of these children
into the custody of unvetted, even criminal sponsors. Now,
while it may seem repetitive to have yet another hearing on the
issue, the fact of the matter is that our work here is not yet
done. As a result of the open border policies of the Biden
Administration, letting in roughly 11,000,000 illegal aliens
and more than 500,000 unaccompanied children, many of these
children of course, had to travel from dangerous cartel control
routes through South America. And many suffered horrific harm
and now they're saddled with a lifetime of trauma that could
have been avoided if they hadn't been enticed to leave their
home country.
Parents and other relatives played a role in the sad saga
by making the credible decision to place their child into the
hands of a criminal organization, potentially putting them in
harm's way in the first place. They were often the ones to
initiate the process, paying smugglers thousands of dollars to
bring their children into the United States illegally.
And you have to ask yourself, why in the world would they
do something like that? Well, because they realize that under
the Biden policies these children were likely to be deposited
here in the United States in place with a sponsor and be able
to stay in the United States. Some of these children thought
they were going to be united with a relative or parent, but
they ended up being trafficked or forced to work to pay for
their smuggling debts.
And let's not forget the other side of the problem. Among
the 500,000 unaccompanied minor children that President Biden
led into the country, some were members of the Tren de Aragua
and MS-13 gangs. Many of these so-called children were 17-year-
olds or virtually for all practical purposes, adults. Some of
them had already committed crimes in their home country and
continued their criminal conduct here in the United States.
And of course, no one can forget the many victims of crimes
committed by juvenile illegal aliens, crimes like the death of
Kayla Hamilton, who was raped and murdered or Maria Gonzalez,
who was raped and strangled to death. As horrific as these
stories are, they are nothing new. I can cite volumes of news
reports and articles detailing such horrors, as I'm sure
Chairman Grassley, who's been following this issue for years
now, can as well, since he's spearheaded many of the
investigations into the problems with the unaccompanied minor
program for years.
But what is truly shocking is the level of irresponsibility
and the callousness of the Biden Administration and ultimately
allowing these children to be released to sponsors who weren't
their relatives based on fake addresses and fraudulent
documentation. The Biden Administration prioritized the release
of thousands of migrant children without doing background
checks or waiting to receive the results of background checks,
or without conducting mandatory home studies, even when staff
raised concern indicating that such studies were warranted.
When the Trump Administration came in, new leadership at HHS
discovered a backlog of more than 65,000 case reports, which
the Biden Office of Refugee Resettlement known as ORR, either
dismissed or simply chose to do nothing about.
I must commend the men and women of the Trump
Administration for the work they've done to try to right these
wrongs in this far as our treatment of these migrant children.
Under AG Bondi, Secretary Noem, and Secretary Kennedy's
leadership, we've witnessed progress in the last 8 months,
although much remains to be done. Working with State and local
law enforcement authorities, the Trump Administration is
located more than 22,000 missing illegal migrant children and
arrested more than 400 criminal sponsors.
As of March, HHSORR, has now made DNA testing mandatory for
all sponsors. It really is, again, I just, my threshold for
being shocked has gotten so high because of the outrageous
conduct that we're talking about here. But for many years, the
Biden Administration resisted doing DNA testing to make sure
that these children were actually biologically related to the
people who claim them as their children, which in many cases
they were not.
HHS has created additional factors that caseworkers need to
consider when assessing whether a home study is mandatory,
that's a followup after the child is placed or should be
conducted for the protection of the child. Finally, HHS has
reviewed all of the 65,000 case reports that were left behind
by the Biden Administration and elevated cases that are
indicative of fraud and other significant activity to law
enforcement for further review investigation.
These measures will protect young children from further
harm or trafficking based on false claimed family relationships
and other harms. But unfortunately, for many of these children,
help has come too late. DHS reported that 27 migrant children
were found dead either by murder, suicide, or drug overdose.
And that's just the ones they found. All these reports of harm
to these young people are shocking, and the blame for the
failures in the unaccompanied minor process during the fiscal
year 2021-2024 lays squarely at President Biden's feet.
But I want to take a moment to refocus Members' attention
on what I believe is really the issue here. You'll hear plenty
of stories today of about enforcement actions of the Trump
Administration and its impact on migrant communities but no one
seems to want to discuss why we continue to incentivize parents
and other relatives to pay criminal organizations large sums of
money to smuggle their children into the United States.
We have laws in the books now that encourage children to
make that treacherous journey through South America to enter
the country illegally. The problem, it seems to me, is one of
the Government's own making, and it's not a problem that began
with President Trump or President Biden, but dates back to 1985
with a legal decision called the Flores case.
The Flores case was a lawsuit between a liberal advocacy
group and the former Immigration Naturalization Service, or
INS. INS chose to exercise its discretion to allow deportable
children to be released from government custody under very
specific circumstances. First, INS would only release the child
to his or her parents or legal guardian.
Second, INS would only release the child if the parent or
legal guardian appeared in person at an INS office or before an
INS officer. Unfortunately, the liberal advocates who were
concerned that this process might result in some parents who
were illegally present in the United States from being detained
and deported as part of this process.
So rather than risk the deportation of people who illegally
entered into the United States, they basically sacrificed the
welfare of these unaccompanied minor children. It really is
shameful and their efforts to ensure that no alien is deported
under any conditions at any time.
These advocates press for INS to change its policies to
ensure the Government released deportable children from
detention as quickly as possible. That became the goal of the
Government, release these children as soon as possible. The
tragic result of the Flores settlement is that it created an
incentive for unaccompanied children to continue to come to the
United States because it virtually guaranteed the expedited
release of that child into the interior of our country.
And tragically, the speed at which the Biden Administration
released these children seemed to take precedence over ensuring
that they were safe, and that their sponsors were properly
vetted. Additionally, the passage of the Trafficking Victims
Protection Reauthorization Act created a similar perverse
incentive. This law created a process for the Government to
send unaccompanied children from Mexico or Canada back to their
home countries after screening them for trafficking or credible
fear.
But there was a loophole, unaccompanied children from any
other country other than Canada and Mexico, who crossed the
border illegally got to stay in the United States and placed in
proceedings and ultimately released from custody into the
custody of sponsors. Once illegal aliens in the United States
and cartels and gangs in South America learned of this legal
loophole, border crossings by unaccompanied minors surged, in
FY 2021-2023, hundreds of thousands of these unaccompanied
children made their way to the border.
And I would say that while these children may have
presented themselves as unaccompanied, they definitely were
accompanied during that treacherous trip from their home in
South America or Mexico, because they were given to the custody
of coyotes or human smugglers who cared nothing for the welfare
of these children and then released at the border into the
custody of the Border Patrol because these parents knew and the
smugglers knew that the children would be cared for once they
made their way to the United States--if they made their way to
the United States.
The lesson here is clear, President Obama agreed with
Republicans back in the day that these incentives could and
should be fixed legislatively. And I'm talking about the Flores
case now, but the Democratic base would not hear of it. They
would prefer to have migrant children endangered than even
raise the possibility that some illegal immigrants might be
deported.
For all of the talk about due process during the Trump
Administration, this issue highlights the way that our
Democratic colleagues have pushed to skirt the formal process
for releasing unaccompanied minors in order to minimize the
chances of any person who's come to the country illegally being
deported. And there is a heavy, heavy price to pay. And I would
submit, we won't know what the full price ultimately is for
years, maybe decades, yet to come.
As these children, of a variety of different ages, grow up
under perhaps horrific circumstances. We don't know whether
they are going to school. We don't know whether they're being
given access to healthcare. We don't know whether they're being
trafficked or held for forced servitude. So, I'm hopeful after
after this hearing and perhaps after some deliberation, we can
find a way to put aside partisan politics and to have the moral
conviction to take one step toward addressing the root of this
problem.
If we really care about protecting children, we would
never, ever tolerate putting them in harm's way in the first
place. Ranking Member.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ALEX PADILLA,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon,
everybody. And I too want to thank everybody for being here.
And I'm actually very, very glad that we have the opportunity
to talk today about the welfare of unaccompanied children in
our immigration system. Mr. Chairman, it's been good to try to
do as much bipartisan common sense of work together as we've
had over the last 4\1/2\ years, because we know that when it
comes to all issues and conversations about immigration, which
is very complex, it gets very passionate real quick.
See, too often their stories of unaccompanied children go
unheard until a horrific story about their mistreatment shocks
the conscience of our country. And it's not just a matter of
past tense. It's not just a matter of what happened during the
Biden Administration or in prior years. One of these stories
broke out just a few weeks ago on Sunday, August 31, at about 1
or 2 o'clock in the morning, 76 children in Texas shelters were
jolted awake in the middle of the night with no warning.
They were instructed to pack their bags and immigration
officials led them to an airport to be deported without a
hearing, without due process and without proper vetting to see
if they would actually be safe back in Guatemala. These kids,
as you can imagine, were terrified. And as you can see from the
declarations filed in court, there's a chart here with some of
the quotes from those declarations here behind me.
These children waited for hours on buses and on airplanes,
wondering what their fate would be. Some feared returning home
to abusive families, violence or forced marriage. Many prayed.
One little girl was so scared that she vomited. Without an 11th
hour intervention by a judge these children could have been
back in Guatemala fighting many for their lives. That's how
children are being treated in the system but it gets worse.
Following a concerning whistleblower disclosure made to the
Chair of this Subcommittee and myself, we're now learning that
allegedly at least 30 of the children, who the Government was--
who the Government had cleared for imminent removal, had been
previously flagged as having signs of being victims of
trafficking or abuse and who would face harm if returned to
Guatemala.
Yet before these whistleblowers went public, the acting
director of ORR had sworn under oath in a court of law that
these children had been screened and were cleared for
repatriation. These whistleblowers came forward at great
personal cost. And Mr. Chairman, I ask consent to enter the
whistleblower disclosure into the record.
Chair Cornyn. Without objection.
[Poster displayed.]
Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. And copies will be
shared to, with Members of the Subcommittee if you haven't
received it already. So, knowing all this, now, it's on us to
do the right thing and bring ORR officials before this
Committee to demand the truth. Now, Mr. Chairman, we are the
Committee of Jurisdiction with an obligation to conduct
oversight over ORR.
So, I don't just ask you, I urge you, let's work together
to schedule an oversight hearing with ORR to get to the truth.
Every single one of us here has a responsibility to stand up
for the children in our immigration system, whether it's
because of trafficking, physical or sexual abuse, child labor,
or violations of their due process. And this is a
responsibility that I don't take lightly. None of us should
take lightly, but already, it's occurred to me what is
happening at this hearing and it's something different.
It seems to be an effort to make this an ongoing political
issue, blaming a former President for a current problem. For
some, it may be about pleasing the Trump Administration or not
wanting to hold them accountable, because the reality is, if
the focus is what is the State of affairs of unaccompanied
children, the conditions in which they're being detained, or
how they're being treated, or how their due process is or is
not being fulfilled, then we should be having a holistic
conversation, not just looking at the past, but looking at the
present and trying to create the rightful future by our rule of
law.
Because the reality is the Trump Administration officials
should be the ones in the seats in front of us to field our
questions and to answer our questions about their, in many
ways, ``Cruel and unlawful policies'' especially after this
whistleblower disclosure. And for a moment, Mr. Chair, let me
shed light on two items that you raised in your opening
statement, the Flores settlement, which you referenced.
The Flores settlement sets minimum standards of care for
children who are being detained for months at a time with
unrelated adults. That's what the Flores settlement is about.
The Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act is a
bipartisan law that was signed into law by George H.W. Bush to
protect children from exploitation and abuse. So, if we truly
want to improve our immigration system and protect
unaccompanied children, we'd be exercising our oversight
authority to ask about the real harm currently happening to
children because of the indiscriminate mass deportation
policies that this Administration is carrying out.
There has to be real oversight of this Administration and
their dangerous treatment of minors. So don't lecture me about
kids and then at the same time, grab defenseless children in
the middle of the night to haul them off to a country when we
know they will be in danger. Don't lecture me about kids but
then refuse to call out this Administration when they deprive
them of representation.
And don't lecture me about kids and then refuse to speak
out when we hear parents are being forced to decide whether to
be deported with their children or let them be sent to ORR
shelters as we learned just this morning. And don't just take
my word for it, just read the heartbreaking reporting in this
morning's Washington Post. And Mr. Chairman, I ask consent to
enter that article into the record for today's hearing as well.
Chair Cornyn. Without objection.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Senator Padilla. Thank you very much. And not a single
child benefits from political theater. So today, it's my hope
that this hearing doesn't devolve into just a competition of
who can praise Trump the most or who can bash Biden the best.
Because regardless of which party is in the White House or
which party is in the majority in Congress, keeping children
safe should be a bipartisan concern.
In fact, alongside Senator Durbin, I co-chaired a hearing
of the Senate Judiciary Committee in June 2023, one of two
oversight hearings that we had that year alone on protecting
unaccompanied children and fighting child labor exploitation.
That's right.
Everybody in this hearing room and everybody watching at
home, Democrats demanded accountability from the Biden
Administration on what happened to children under their watch.
And I invite our Republican colleagues to join us in demanding
the same accountability from the Trump Administration about
what's happening to children under theirs. So, let's speak up
for the children's whose lives are on the line, no matter who
is in the White House. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Cornyn. I know Senator Grassley has a conflict and is
unable to make it. So, I'll turn next to the Ranking Member of
the full Committee. Before I do that, I'd ask unanimous consent
to make part of the record two stories by The New York Times
dated April the 17, 2023. And actually, the first one is
February 25, 2023. These were investigative stories done by the
New York Times, the title of which is, ``Alone and exploited
migrant children work brutal jobs across the U.S.''
And the second installment of that investigative story is
entitled as, ``Migrant children were put to work, U.S. ignored
warnings.''
[Holds up documents].
[The information appears as submissions for the record.]
Chair Cornyn. With that I'll turn to the Ranking Member.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
Senator Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I'd
like to say that I joined with the Chairman of the Subcommittee
or the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee in saying that what
happened in the past is important, we should learn from it. But
what's happening today is what counts. Where are these kids
today? What decisions are being made today? How are they doing?
Let me give you one example.
A few months ago, I joined all my Democratic colleagues on
this Committee in a letter to Chairman Grassley requesting a
hearing on the Trump Administration's decision to voluntarily
drop a lawsuit against Southwest Key, the largest private
provider of sheltering care for unaccompanied children.
Southwest Key has been accused of repeatedly subjecting
children to sexual abuse and harassment between 2015 and 2023,
which is why the Biden Administration filed a lawsuit against
them.
I hope that we can get a response from the Chairman and a
hearing on that issue, maybe in the Subcommittee about why that
lawsuit was dropped by the Trump Administration. That is a
timely response to what's happening to these kids. And I'll
just close by saying that I've joined with Senator Padilla
because we have whistleblower allegations that the Trump
Administration misled the courts to justify deporting
unaccompanied children at risk of trafficking and abuse.
Protecting children should be bipartisan, not partisan. When I
was Chair, we held a hearing holding the Biden officials
accountable for the unaccompanied children.
I call on Chairs, Grassley and Cornyn to do the same, have
the courage to hold this Administration responsible as well.
Let's get to the bottom of this for the good of these children,
I yield.
Chair Cornyn. Just in a brief response, I would say what's
happening today is important, no doubt about it, but failing to
examine the reasons for the disaster that we're experiencing
today by inviting millions of people to come to the country,
basically un vetted, including a half a million children, and
then suggesting that, well, really, we need to ignore all that
and the consequences of that fail to provide the accountability
that I think the American people deserve.
And the work is not yet done because many of these children
are simply unaccounted for. And we don't know, again, what's
happened to them. We don't know that they're currently alive or
dead. We don't know whether they are trafficked for sex or into
forced labor, whether they're going to school, whether they're
getting healthcare they need. And the position the Biden
Administration is they don't really have any responsibility or
they didn't once they placed these children with sponsors, but
placing them with unvetted sponsors and then saying, ``Our
job's done, it's not our job anymore. Somebody else has to deal
with that.'' It is just plainly irresponsible. And the
consequences of this are, like I said, will not fully be known,
I think, for years or maybe decades to come.
So, what I'd like to do is now welcome today's witnesses to
the hearing and I appreciate each of you being here and
providing your expertise and testimony on such an important
topic. The first witness is the former Chief Patrol agent,
Chris Clem, who's retired from the U.S. Border Patrol. He
worked for the former Immigration and Naturalization Service in
the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Customs and Border
Protection.
He served with the Government with honor and distinction
for more than 27\1/2\ years, including the senior executive
service level from 2018 until his retirement, he's known for,
as matter of fact, no nonsense approach. Chris Clem served in
multiple locations throughout his career and in key leadership
positions across the Southern Border and in Washington D.C.
Chris Clem has been on the front line through many border
crises, including El Paso and Yuma, Arizona. He worked with the
current Administration during the first 100 days as a senior
advisor to HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. His role
involved directing operations relating to immigration
especially as it pertains to HHS and specifically on the issues
affecting unaccompanied children.
Ali Hopper is a nationally recognized expert in human
trafficking and the President of Guard Against Trafficking, a
nonprofit she co-founded to combat exploitation through
innovative research, education, and advocacy. Ms. Hopper
authored Florida's landmark Anti Grooming Bill, she now uses a
model in multiple States. She's also testified before Congress
on child trafficking issues and delivered numerous
congressional Senate briefings on human trafficking.
Ms. Hopper conducts on the ground research in the United
States, Mexico, Central and South America, including interviews
with human traffickers who've been incarcerated in the United
States and abroad. She's trained Interpol in South America,
U.S. law enforcement and policymakers across multiple States
and countries. Ali is a member of the Florida's Circuit 12
Human Trafficking Task Force, and I'm sure well known to our,
perhaps our newest Senator from Florida, Senator Moody.
Our frequent voice and national medium is Hopper continues
to shape public awareness and drive forward policies to protect
children and combat trafficking nationwide. Mary Giovagnoli,
did I get that right?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Yes.
Chair Cornyn. With a name like mine, you have to--I'm
always very sensitive to that. So, I won't try it again. But
Mary served as the first ever ombudsman for unaccompanied
children at HHS. She served in this non-political role from
October, 2024 to March, 2025. Ms. Giovagnoli is an immigration
lawyer with policy expertise and more than 25 years of Federal
Government and non-profit experience. She's also served as
Deputy Assistant Secretary for immigration policy at DHS from
February, 2015 to January, 2017.
So, if I can get you to please rise and if you'll raise
your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
[Witnesses are sworn in.]
Chair Cornyn. Thank you. Please have a seat. Chief Clem,
we'll turn to you--for each of you for 5 minutes of opening
statements, and then we will have some questions for you.
STATEMENT OF CHRIS CLEM, RETIRED CHIEF PATROL AGENT AND FORMER
SENIOR ADVISOR AT HHS, RED ROCK, ARIZONA
Mr. Clem. Well, good afternoon, Chairman and Members of the
Committee. My name is Chris Clem. I'm a retired Chief Patrol
Agent in the U.S. Border Patrol. I began my career in 1995 in
Lordsburg, New Mexico as a Border Patrol agent trainee, and
retired on December 31, 2022 as the Chief Patrol Agent in Yuma,
Arizona. In January this year, I was appointed to the position
of senior advisor at Health and Human Services to be part of
the transition to the Trump Administration for the first 100
days.
My responses to your questions will be based on my
recollection of my experiences and observations over the last
30 plus years. I spent most of my career along the southwest
border. As a Border Patrol agent, I was a career government
employee who served under five Presidential Administrations,
starting under President Clinton and ending under President
Biden. As a Border Patrol agent and chief, I was not a
political appointee.
I promoted through the ranks through competitive process
and commanded five Border Patrol stations across Arizona, New
Mexico, and Texas. I served as the Deputy Chief Patrol agent in
the New Orleans Sector, El Paso sector, acting chief in Big
Bend, Texas, and retired as the Chief Patrol Agent in Yuma,
Arizona.
Each location is different with its own set of unique
circumstances from terrain to infrastructure, to communities
and to threats. However, the one thing that is consistent
across the spectrum is without border security, our agents, our
community, the migrants, and our country are vulnerable.
Without collaborative efforts of the community and other
agencies, the mission is compromised. While immigration and
border security are closely related, they're not mutually
exclusive.
However, without proper border security in the form of
physical security, Border Patrol agents' strong policies and
consequences, the integrity of the immigration system is
compromised, and the founding principles surrounding the rule
of law suffer. This is exceptionally prominent when it comes to
dealing with unaccompanied alien children. And during my time
at HHS, my direct assignment was overseeing the refugee
resettlement and focusing on finding the missing children and
directing changes to prevent this from happening again.
I was laser focused on this narrow scope and it was my
opinion that the country expected nothing less of me. My
testimony and response today will be focused on the issues
impacting UACs while at HHS and my experience with this issue
throughout my professional career. During the Biden
Administration, we know they set a record number of
approximately 479,000 UACs entered the United States illegally.
The children that entered the U.S. illegally ranged from months
old to 17 years old. The reality is many of these children were
adolescents and aware of what they were doing. Unfortunately,
many of the younger and tender aged children did not.
This is the ugly truth regarding our border and immigration
policies and that encourage and exploit these vulnerable
populations. While serving at HHS, I must say I was not
surprised by the findings and the horror stories I was made
aware of. Some were shocking, but again, not surprised. Bottom
line, the system at ORR prioritized placement speed over
protection of children.
This complicates the entire system. For example, the Biden
Administration delayed the notice of a peer filings for 120
days, which impeded the ability of the Federal Government to
track and monitor the UACs after release from ORR custody.
Additionally, field guidance in 2021, relaxed sponsor vetting
by removing biometric background checks requirements for
category one or close relative sponsors, not requiring
background checks of adult household members in those same
categories, and eliminating coordination between case managers
and co case coordinators to expedite the release to keep up
with the surge of arrivals.
Any organization involving children should be prioritizing
their safety above all, especially knowing that many were
exposed to violence and in horrible conditions throughout their
journey to our border. I'm confident in stating that oftentimes
the safest a child has been in that journey is with the Border
Patrol. And a Border Patrol station is no place for a child,
given the circumstances they were taken care of and prioritized
until placed.
I also observed that if a sponsor application met the
minimum requirements or appeared to make the effort, it was
generally acceptable. The followup and verification and vetting
process sponsors was abysmal. I recall one case where a home
site visit was conducted to assess the environment of a
placement of a teen. The location was in Illinois and the site
visit concluded with a do not place based on the alleged
mother's gang affiliation, numerous unrelated adults and the
general unsafe environment, the decision was overruled.
The child who was 17 was found dead a few months later with
his pants down with an adult male who was unconscious in the
backseat of a car. The question remains, ``Why did we place
this child? Additionally, there was a case involving a
fraudulent sponsor claimed to be an adult brother of a 14-year-
old female. The documents used were fraudulent, no family
verification such as biometrics, fingerprints. However, the 14-
year-old was placed with a 30-year-old male. The child was
raped multiple times and became pregnant. The Department of
Justice under Biden refused to prosecute the case, but
fortunately, the State of Ohio detained this individual. The
current Department of Justice filed federal charges and
received an indictment by the grand jury.
There are countless heinous crimes involving these UACs
that have resulted from practices at ORR. It was my opportunity
and my opportunity to fix that. Information sharing across the
departments and agencies as best interest of the U.S.
Government. All the UAC information received by ORR comes from
encounters by DHS, the majority from Customs and Border
Protection. In fact, referrals to ORR from CBP have increased
recently.
It begs the question, are these continuing lawsuits and
injunctions and are presenting a false sense of security? And
are the traffickers exploiting this and creating a pull factor?
Only time will tell. During my time from January to May, I
immediately stood up an internal task force from the ORR
Integrity and Accountability Team to go through all the cases
that were suspected of fraud.
I also created what was referred to as the war room, where
Federal law enforcement agents at DHS and others work side by
side to review these cases and to find the missing children as
well as target the fraudulent sponsors. Additionally, because
of my background relationships with Federal law enforcement,
specifically CBP, collectively, we were able to ensure every
unaccompanied alien child encounter at the border, whether at
the border between the border or at the ports, is met with by
an HSI, Homeland Security Investigation special agent that
would respond and conduct an interview at the encounter.
In other words, an immediate action was taking place to
address the smuggled or trafficked child to include responses
to alleged sponsors or family members location that the child
or the smuggler claims to be in coordination with. This helps
ensure the criminal activity is addressed early on in the event
rather than responding days, weeks, or months later.
Recent reports indicated over 22,000 kids have been found
and over 400 sponsors have had charges filed against them. This
is only the tip of the iceberg as more unaccompanied children
will be found and more criminal charges will be filed. I know
I'm pressed for time, but one of the more dumbfounding
discoveries revealed immediately to me upon arriving in January
was an internal review by the Office of General Counsel at HHS.
The review was conducted in 2023 based on a Florida grand
jury investigation on the pharaohs and fraud at ORR and the
impact of the State of Florida. The General Counsel National
Complex litigation team was directed to conduct an internal
audit to validate or invalidate the Florida case. The
information found by OGC was not only verified and corroborated
the Florida case, it found more evidence of fraud with
placement of sponsorships of the UACs.
The findings were briefed to politically appointed leaders
at HHS, however, no known meaningful actions were put in place.
That said, I authorized an additional OGC review to determine
the status of ORR and the earlier findings. Once again, the
results revealed that the previous findings were accurate and
more evidence of suspected fraud was found.
In fact, a sampling of a thousand suspected fraud cases
confirmed evidence over 70 percent of those files were fraud.
The timeline, the case reviewed for August 23 to January 25.
Throughout my tenure at HHS, we were continuously looking for
information, leads to find more about the missing kids, the
practices, and solutions above all. During that time, we found
several caches of unanswered notices of concerns.
These notices were instruments used to communicate with ORR
after a child had been placed outside of ORR. Anyone associated
with the child, the child themselves, a sponsor, a family
neighbor, an anonymous could report that via the notice of
concern. We found an initial tranche of over 50,000, and then
additional caches totaling 65,000 notices of concerns that went
unanswered.
These notices could range from complaints about food to
inappropriate conduct. The fact is that those were 65,000
opportunities to make a difference in a child's life that went
unanswered. While I was there, we made huge strides in
addressing these notices, and it's my understanding they're
down to just a few hundred or a few thousand.
Chair Cornyn. Chief if you'd wrap up your opening
statement.
Mr. Clem. Yes, I just want to say it's my hope in attending
this and providing this information that we can learn from the
failures of the past and move forward to prevent this from
happening again. The reason why they come to this country is
not the issue but it's how we handle it and how we keep them
safe. So, my full statement has been submitted for the record,
and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Clem appears as a submission
for the record.]
Chair Cornyn. Yes, all of your statements will be made part
of the record. Thank you. And Senator Padilla would like to say
a few words of introduction to Ms. Giovagnoli.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Just to add
a little bit to your final introduction to Ms. Giovagnoli, just
to call out some of the experience that she brings to this
conversation, which I think is not only relevant, but usually
helpful. She served with the Attorney General Honors Program as
a trial attorney for Immigration Naturalization Service once
upon a time INS in Chicago before joining the INS Office of
General Counsel, important positions, quality experience.
She then joined what's now USCIS Services office of the
Principal Legal Advisor continuing to focus on asylum and
refugee issues until she became USCIS Senior Advisor for
Congressional Relations. Ms. Giovagnoli is also an alum of this
very Subcommittee, having served as counsel for then Senator
Edward Kennedy. So, I think relevant and constructive
experience and I look forward to her testimony and our
questions.
Chair Cornyn. Thank you. Ms. Giovagnoli, we will turn to
you for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF MARY E. GIOVAGNOLI, FORMER OMBUDS FOR
UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES, WASHINGTON, DC
Ms. Giovagnoli. Thank you, Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member
Padilla, and Members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to
speak to you about the grave harms facing unaccompanied
children. My name is Mary Giovagnoli. After a long career as a
Government immigration attorney and a nonprofit immigration
policy advocate, I returned to the Government in October, 2024
to become the first ombuds for unaccompanied children at the
Department of Health and Human Services.
I was a civil servant whose office provided an independent,
impartial, and confidential resource to identify issues and
concerns about the Government's treatment of unaccompanied
children. I'd been in my position a few months when President
Trump took office. Little did I know I would have only a month
left before I was caught up in the mass firing of probationary
workers.
In that time, however, I witnessed firsthand how the Trump
Administration transformed the Office of Refugee Resettlement,
from a Child Protection Agency into an immigration enforcement
tool, violating Federal law and endangering children.
All of these actions were supposedly taken in the name of
protecting children, including children that the Trump
Administration claimed went missing under the prior
administration. But that claim repeated here today is based on
misinterpretation of reports about children's safety and is
being used to wage a campaign of terror against children and
their families.
The greatest threat to unaccompanied children's safety
today comes from the policies of the Trump Administration,
whose reckless actions are making children more vulnerable to
trafficking and other harms by isolating them from loved ones,
denying them access to services and destroying their ability to
trust Government officials.
The gravity of the situation is exemplified by the Trump
Administration's plans to remove 600 Guatemalan children
without warning or due process. In the wee hours of the morning
on the Sunday before Labor Day, roughly 76 unaccompanied
children in shelter or foster care were shaken from their beds
and told that they would be removed to Guatemala in a few
hours' time.
But for a temporary restraining order issued at 4:30 in the
morning, these children would've been whisked away without due
process to a country that many had fled for fear of their
lives. Nothing about this incident enhances the safety of
children. Everything about this incident demonstrates the
Administration's disregard for children, regardless of sound
bites to the contrary. This disregard takes many forms. ORR is
now administered by former ICE officials who are needlessly
separating parents and children, imposing higher barriers for
sponsorship and allowing ICE to participate in the sponsorship
decisionmaking process, and to arrest sponsors at those
interviews.
Children are now averaging 6 months in custody with
potentially devastating impact on their health and mental well-
being. ORR also abruptly terminated Federal funding for legal
representation that is vital to protecting the safety of over
26,000 unaccompanied children. Although the funding was
temporarily restored by court order, the future of legal
protection for children is deeply in doubt.
These protections are critical. Without the network of
legal and social service providers, the Government would've
succeeded in removing the Guatemalan children under the cover
of darkness, ignoring their legal claims and the responsibility
to follow the law. In court, the Government asserted then later
retracted an inaccurate claim that the children's parents had
requested their return to Guatemala, they had not.
In doing so, the Government attorney acknowledged it is
unfortunate that the children were frightened and pulled out in
the middle of the night. It was more than unfortunate. It is an
indictment of the lack of sensitivity to children encouraged by
this Administration. I think we can all agree that we're
required to protect unaccompanied children under law but also
as a matter of conscience and duty.
Extreme responses to tragedy ultimately do not serve
children's best interests. Crafting a program that maximizes
protection and minimizes the risk of harm is difficult and
requires constant assessment, significant resources, and
multiple levels of oversight. Balancing competing risks and
harms will always be difficult but the well-being of children
should guide us.
I've worked for decades with people across the political
spectrum to improve the immigration system for children. In
fact, on the fateful day of September 11, 2001, I was an INS
attorney drafting testimony for Commissioner James Ziegler, a
Republican appointee to announce significant changes at INS to
improve the care for unaccompanied children.
That announcement was never made, but ultimately, in the
aftermath of the great tragedy, when Congress created the
Department of Homeland Security, it also transferred the care
and custody of children to HHS. Even in our fear and sorrow,
there was bipartisan consensus that children's best interests
could not be protected if they were cared for by the same
agency seeking to deport them.
Rather than prove the judgment of Congress wrong, the Trump
Administration has demonstrated that blurring the lines leads
to lasting harm. I look forward to discussing more balanced
solutions to protecting unaccompanied children during the day's
hearing. I can assure you that none of those recommendations
include shaking children from their beds in the middle of the
night. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Giovagnoli appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Cornyn. Ms. Hopper.
STATEMENT OF ALI HOPPER, PRESIDENT & CO-FOUNDER, GUARD AGAINST
TRAFFICKING, VENICE, FLORIDA
Ms. Hopper. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Padilla and the
distinguished Committee Members, thank you for the opportunity
to testify. Charlie Kirk once said, ``We are called to fight
evil and proclaim truth, that as Christians, we are called to
enter the public arena to correct error with truth.'' He
believed that if you believe in something, you must have the
courage to fight for it.
We honor him today as I testify, standing to fight evil and
proclaim truth in defense of children. I am Ali Hopper,
president and co-founder of Guard Against Trafficking. I
testified before Congress in November, 2024 and July, 2025 on
child exploitation at the border, an NGO negligence. As a
Hispanic mother, I cannot imagine the trauma these children
have endured.
Today, I'm here to address this ongoing crisis and outline
what must be done to ensure accountability and justice. Through
extensive field work and interviews with human traffickers,
cartel members, whistleblowers and unaccompanied alien
children, my research partner, Dr. Jared Sadowsky, and I were
exposed to an assembly line of exploitation.
Children moved through cartel-controlled routes, carrying
slips of paper, naming the sponsors they were instructed to
request. We saw those slips ourselves. Border Patrol processed
them. HHS released them. NGO's received them. Government
contractors transported them. Step-by-step, children were
handed off with virtually no oversight, sometimes ending up
with cartel-controlled sponsors and all of it was funded on the
backs of American taxpayers.
A whistleblower who served as a director of Cherokee
Federal's Pomona Fairplex described to us alarming misconduct.
Delayed background checks allowed a registered sex offender to
access children. A gang member using a false identity was
assigned to place children with sponsors. Children were sent to
empty fields, overcrowded apartments and at least, were sent to
addresses later discovered to be strip clubs.
Hundreds were routinely miscounted. Several 13-to 17-year-
old girls were taken offsite to an abortion clinic without his
knowledge or authorization. Some after months of being in
custody, suggesting pregnancies occurred during their journey
or while in facility care. Any staff who raised concerns were
silenced or terminated. Failures extended to NGO's and
contractors transporting the children.
The Association for the Recovery of Children documented
multiple ORR violations while observing a chartered flight of
migrant children that arrived in Tennessee. Joey, a former MVM
site supervisor, reported staff raising concerns about children
crying and not knowing their sponsors.
When he questioned the screening process, he was told to
stay in his lane while upper management reportedly said, ``We
are going to have to start flying some of these kids overseas,
there aren't enough sponsors and we need to get them out of
here.'' But transportation was only part of the problem. Once
children were placed, oversight disappeared.
Post placement welfare frequently failed, leaving over
300,000 children unaccounted for. Recently, we discovered
roughly 117 children were trafficked to a Midwest farm. Some
arriving at schools with STDs or pregnant. Our intervention has
triggered a criminal investigation. The risks to children are
reflected in the increasingly sophisticated methods cartels use
to operate undetected.
A former trafficker we interviewed explained that while
smuggling fees have doubled, operations have largely shifted
underground waiting until this Administration's term ends.
Cartels now rely on elaborate tunnels, some running beneath the
Rio Grande River, designed and built by migrants with
specialized engineering skills who were coerced into cartel
ranks.
Cartels are also expanding beyond sexual exploitation,
forced labor and organ harvesting into the trafficking of
newborns. NGO's in Mexico have facilitated transfers providing
false papers and concealing the circumstances of the adoption.
Journalist, Katerina Schulz told us of a horrific trend in
Juarez, Mexico, where pregnant women are kidnapped, their
babies are forcibly extracted, the mothers are left to die and
the babies are sold for illegal adoption in El Paso.
It is essential to back current efforts to secure the
border, locate missing children and investigate criminal
networks while simultaneously enacting immediate corrective
measures to fix systemic failures and ensure accountability.
Therefore, I respectfully urge the Senate to audit ORR
contracts over a $100,000,000 to start and claw back unspent
funds, drastically shake up the ORRUAC program for failed
sponsor vetting and post-release monitoring and strengthen law
enforcement Federal agency collaboration to share data, track
sponsors, locate missing children and dismantle trafficking
networks.
We have a responsibility and opportunity to act with
courage and moral clarity, to restore integrity to the system
and protect the innocent lives depending on us. Thank you for
your time and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hopper appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chair Cornyn. Thank you, Ms. Hopper. We'll start with 5-
minute rounds and I will begin. Chief Clem, what is the main
driving force for this smuggling of minor children from their
homes in Central or South America, or Mexico into the United
States? What's the incentive that's driving that?
Mr. Clem. Well first of all, it is profit. The cartels and
the smuggling organizations are commodity neutral, whether it's
people, kids, or product. It's about overall money, but also
some of the existing loopholes that in our system that we've
all mentioned today that they can get these kids here in the
United States and continue to do that to make profit. And
again, it's loopholes in the laws.
Chair Cornyn. So, in your experience after 27\1/2\ years, I
think is Government service your view is that that these
criminal organizations that frequently called transnational
criminal organizations have simply become expert at how to
exploit the U.S. laws or U.S. law enforcement?
Mr. Clem. 100 percent. I mean, they are excellent at
information and intelligence gathering on what we're doing here
in the United States, from monitoring operations to monitoring
what we're doing here on a House floor or a Senate floor.
They're listening to what we're doing and they're going to
adjust their business model based on what U.S. policies are.
Chair Cornyn. And we've heard some concerns expressed which
I share about the treatment of any minor child while in U.S.
custody. Not a lot of discussion about the incentives that
drive parents or family members to turn their kids over to
cartels to transmit them to the to the border. But in your
experience, are many of the children that are turned over to
the coyotes or the smugglers or abused along the way?
Mr. Clem. I think just the general process that goes on to
be smuggled through Mexico into our U.S. border is horrific
because of the stash houses, the unrelated adults, the things
that are going on. Are many of them abused? Yes. Not all of
them but we have seen plenty of them that are pretty
traumatized. They don't say much to us and when they're in our
custody but we do have avenues to get them the support they
need while they're in our custody.
At the end of the day, when the volumes are so high, we
don't always see that while they're with Border Patrol. And it
comes out later when they're placed in ORR.
Chair Cornyn. Well, speaking of the volumes, if the policy
of the Biden Administration was essentially to wave anybody who
shows up at the border in, particularly those who utter the
magic words that they're coached to say in order to qualify for
a preliminary screening for asylum, that overwhelmed the
capacity of the Border Patrol to deal with them, did they not?
We saw crowded detention facilities. We saw Border Patrol
rather than protecting the border feeding children, changing
diapers, transporting them, did it overwhelm our capacity to
deal with it? But the policies of the previous administration?
Mr. Clem. Well, I was firsthand on the ground there in Yuma
especially where we would sometimes hold 5,000-6,000 people in
the parking lot in the soft side of facilities that were in
constructed to maintain this flow. There were times where in my
126 miles of border, we had four agents out there because we
were too busy processing. Now, I will say for the record, Yuma
did not have a large unaccompanied alien child crossing, my
neighbors in Tucson did.
My neighbors in San Diego did. We just had people from 116
different countries overwhelming all of our resources. So, we
could not put the effort, the law enforcement, the criminal
investigation piece on any of the trafficking and smuggling
operations that were going on because we were outnumbered
sometimes 10-to-1, 50-to--1 on illegal aliens and Border Patrol
agents.
Chair Cornyn. So, Ms. Hopper I have it in my hand an
article from the Atlantic Journal-Constitution entitled, ``For
migrant girls, new lives in the U.S. brings a risk of sexual
abuse.'' And we are, without objection, going to make that part
of the record, is that the future that many of these young
girls face coming into the United States and being placed with
unvetted sponsors.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Ms. Hopper. It is unfortunately and when it doesn't include
the sexual exploitation that they encounter along the journey,
only to be further sexually exploited once they come into the
country that article clearly outlines that, yes.
Chair Cornyn. And do we know whether those young girls who
are traumatized by that whether they receive the mental and
physical healthcare that they may need in the United States or
are they just--is that something we just don't know the answer
to?
Ms. Hopper. We are unclear of the answer to that.
Chair Cornyn. Okay. Thank you. Senator Padilla.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of
things in response to Mr. Clem's remarks and yours, Mr. Chair,
I do believe we have engaged unfruitfully but an ongoing
conversation for years now about part of the solution here to
modernize out immigration system is to address root causes.
What is it that drives people, children, adults, women, and
men, to want to come to United States for a variety of reasons.
And there's been periods of time over administrations where our
engagement with not just the Government leaders in Mexico but
throughout the hemisphere being effective in stemming the flow.
And so, I'm glad you're putting that on the table and look
forward to working with you on that. The other thing I would
recognize from Mr. Clem is a recognition that the number of
countries represented in migrants coming to United States.
They're not all from Mexico, they're coming through Mexico. And
that's an important distinction, so I appreciate that.
But I do want to turn my attention to the children who are
in custody today because despite significantly lower numbers at
the border, including the arrivals of unaccompanied children
being weighed down, children are spending dramatically more
time in ORR custody under this Administration.
[Poster is displayed.]
As the chart behind me shows when there were 6,000 children
in custody on any typical day in October, 2024, they were in
custody for about 49 days. That was consistent for a long time.
Currently, there's roughly 2000 children in custody on any
given day but they're spending roughly 6 months in custody.
That's fewer children spending a lot more time in ORR
facilities, not because ORR is overwhelmed from this reduced
workload but because of the changes this Administration has
made to impose what seemed to be new barriers to family
reunification. This Administration has created new restrictions
that have kept even biological parents from quickly being
reunited with children, creating hurdles that have nothing to
do with the child's safety.
And I agree that is paramount but we have to strike the
right balance. What difference does the legal status of a
loving, caring parent or family member make when determining
whether a child can be well cared for and safe? The truth is,
it doesn't. All it does is make children feel like they're
being treated as bait while languishing in custody, while
mental health deteriorates over time. Six months is a long,
long time.
Ms. Giovagnoli, can you tell us how these policies run
counter to the law that protects children in our Government's
care and custody and speak to the impact on children when their
sponsors are too afraid to come forward and claim them?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I think that it's
important to sort of ground this in the idea that ORR's
responsibility to care for the children starts with, under the
law, identifying appropriate sponsor once the child is coming
to their care and then going through a very elaborate and
rigorous process for vetting those sponsors. And I think what
people often don't realize is that this also involves trying to
reach the parents in the home country if the child has a parent
remaining in the home country to determine both what the
dynamic is between the child and the parent but also to
determine what the parent's interests are in terms of placing
their children with sponsors.
And so I think every effort is made to try to find, if not
the parent, then some other loving family member to take the
responsibility for the child. When that's not possible, there
are various other levels of care that they try to release a
child into because ultimately, congregate care for children can
have a really detrimental impact on their health and their
well-being.
And it is everything from the fact that these shelters are
not really designed to have the services, I should say, to care
for children long term. So there comes a point in time where
educational needs really begin to suffer. Other opportunities
that the children may have if they were outside the congregate
care setting that they aren't able to enjoy.
So, their development can really be hampered by longtime
custody. Sometimes that's the only option. But the goal of both
the TVPRA of the current regulations governing care and
placement of children and basic child welfare principles is
that you should try to reunite children with their parents
whenever you can, safely.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know 5 minutes
goes back quickly. I have additional questions. I'll wait for
the second round.
Chair Cornyn. Senator Moody.
Senator Moody. Thank you so much and thank you for holding
this hearing. I think it's incredibly important as we move
forward. I was very concerned--I'm not planning on heading down
this road, but it shocked me to my core to hear the testimony
Ms. Giovagnoli that Trump claimed kids went missing.
As attorney general in the State of Florida and working
with law enforcement around our State, and litigating
constantly against the Biden Administration as they broke down
the border and put kids in jeopardy and began to legally
traffic children, well, let me rephrase that. Under the
auspices of legality, traffic children around the United
States, we were afraid that that would be a claim, because
sometimes when things get into a partisan world of discussion,
people think it's made up.
And that's why I was so fascinated with the results of a
grand jury investigation that we conducted in Florida. And I
was the attorney general. And that is a grand jury. For those
that don't know is not Republicans or Democrats. It's just lay
people that give up their time to come and listen to testimony
and witnesses and produce a report.
And the report was shocking. And this was in the middle of
the Biden Administration. The State wide grand jury on this
particular issue found that the Biden Administration over the
course of the Administration, but even in a short period of
time, over a 10-month period, they lost thousands of children.
When they investigated, they found that they were put into
situations where they were abused.
Children were running away from sponsors, sold for sex,
sent to empty lots, a strip club in one instance, one teenage
girl was placed with a house of an unknown man. She had no idea
who the person was. And so merely they found that the Biden
Administration was facilitating the forced trafficking of
children. I mean, you can't put it any other way.
I'm not saying that, a grand jury found that. And what was
shocking to is the first time I've heard it until today, was to
hear from you, Mr. Clem, and that was even before I heard of
the allegation that Trump is claiming the Biden Administration
lost thousands of children, which I can't believe you can sit
there and say that with a straight face, but that you, when you
got into office, you said, ``This report cannot be ignored.
What happened to it? Did they even get it?'' And indeed, you
found they did get it and it was a sign for someone to review
to determine if it was in fact happening. Is that right?
Mr. Clem. That's correct.
Senator Moody. And as a result of your allegations, or your
direction, they found that not only was it happening, it had
continued throughout the administration?
Mr. Clem. Just for clarification, when the initial report
came from your Florida, the Becerra led HHS, reviewed it, some
of the political leaders there were briefed on this but nothing
was done. It just sat there. There was no meaningful action
that we could determine that happened after that.
So, when I was briefed on that in late January and early
February this year, I said, ``Wait a second. We need to update
this and verify this.'' So, we conducted a second review and we
corroborate everything that the initial HHS review corroborated
and then some. So two strikes on this one. In a good way for us
on this because we're finding the mistakes and we're finding
ways to solve them.
Senator Moody. And I want to commend the hard work that
you've been doing. In fact, we've already made some progress in
recognizing that this is a child welfare issue and that these
children need some sort of a structure. In fact, when we were
doing recent legislation here federally, we tied some of that
funding to active cooperation with State child welfare agencies
because the States are the ones that deal with child welfare
and stability within their States.
I know some States and even lawmakers wanted to turn a
blind eye to what's going on and now they just want to focus on
the last 8 months. And just forget about the fact that all of
those administration officials knew what was going on, not only
looked into it, verified it, but then buried it. And was that
at the same time when you had administration officials coming
to testify to lawmakers here and saying, ``Nothing to see,
everything is fine?''
Mr. Clem. I don't know the answer to that but I know that
report and that study was done in late 2023. So that I couldn't
answer in the affirmative or negative on that timeline.
Senator Moody. Well, we had some progress. We've tied
funding now to making sure that if funding goes to these States
that they've got to cooperate with child welfare, that's
important. I was proud to get that done over the summer. But
I've also introduced a Stop GAPS Act, which would require ORR
to work with States and local authorities to guarantee that
anyone granted custody of an unaccompanied minor is properly
vetted. I want to add to making sure we're coordinating with
State authorities but now make sure there's vetting in place as
well. Hopefully the State authorities are already doing that.
So, I would invite, if truly we want to engage in a
bipartisan way, I would invite anyone to sign on to this
bipartisan legislation to make sure that children are going to
properly vetted homes and that those that are trained to deal
with child welfare are given the responsibility and knowledge.
In fact, the real challenge for States like Florida that
wanted to do this and wanted to ensure that these children were
looked after and not sold, we know they ended up many times in
forced labor as well. They wouldn't give us any information. We
pleaded, we held grand juries, we asked Biden to send or we
asked the Government to send people to testify. Just send us
documents. They stonewalled us--they stonewalled us.
And so, the only way the States are going to be able to
protect children is if they have the information, not if people
are flown in and by the cover of darkness, not if they're snuck
into nonprofits and then let to go whoever shows up to pick
them up. There has to be accountability.
So again, I would ask my colleagues, Stop GAPS Act. I think
it'll go a long way to ensuring the safety of children.
Chair Cornyn. Senator Durbin.
Senator Durbin. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for your
holding this hearing. A few weeks ago, I went to the
immigration court in downtown Chicago. I recommend that to my
colleagues, to spend the morning in the immigration court and
watch what happens. People come in with appointed times, some
with attorneys, some without, carrying beaten up old envelopes
with Federal documents in it.
This is their day for their appearance. It's a big day in
their lives. For some of them, they're going to find out
whether they can stay in the United States or whether they have
a chance to achieve some sort of status that gives them a
future. I was greeted at the door when I went to the
immigration court by the chief judge.
She had been with the court for 9 years and she walked me
up to the courtroom and escorted me in and I sat down and she
left. I watched as the proceedings continued and someone came
to me and said, ``There are no ICE agents in the courthouse
today, which is unusual, they heard you were coming.'' The ICE
agents were showing up at the hearings that the people were
told they have to attend and detaining them in the hallways.
So, you can imagine the dilemma that these individuals are
facing. Do I get into the system and hope that it works? Or do
I get into the building and hope that I don't get detained? Two
weeks after I visited that immigration court, they fired the
judge who had been there for 9 years and escorted me into the
building, and sent a memo out to all of the other judges and
personnel not to have any conversations with Members of
Congress. Is that how this is supposed to work?
In my mind, it tells you what's going on in the real world
out there. People who are trying to find out if they have a
legal path in this system. For many of them, even if they
believe they have one, it may not work. We're seeing people now
who are being detained, who are citizens of the United States,
snatched off the street corners and other places and they have
no history of committing any crimes.
Some of them are here legally, some of them in status, some
not in status. The other thing that I came to do over the years
was to visit these ORR facilities for children. There's one
called Heartland in Chicago. You may have heard of it, Ms.
Giovagnoli. I believe they're good people and I believe they're
honestly trying to treat these children well. I can't
understand.
I cannot understand how desperate a mother must be to turn
her child over to a coyote or a transporter to take that little
child into the United States in the hopes that they'll link up
with somebody in the family. I can't imagine that, particularly
when you consider the hardships they go through. I can remember
scenes where two little girls walked into a room. They wanted
me to see them.
They were holding hands about 5 years old each. And I said,
``Who are these little girls?'' And they said, ``They've
decided they're sisters but one of them is from Guatemala and
the other is from Mexico.'' They're just being kicked around
the system. They're looking for anything that looks like family
or security.
So, in those situations, we have this problem as well. If
they're placed with someone who the agency believes is a
responsible person, some people have criticized the fact that
they can't get followup phone calls to these same people. Why
can't we find these kids? Some of the situations are such that
the families they're with don't want to link up with this
Government.
There may be somebody in the household who's undocumented,
they're frightened to be part of the legal system. That's a
dilemma. If we're going to keep the kids safe, we have to know
these people are and that they're doing the right thing. But
the system is militating against that at this very moment.
People are scared to death of the Trump Administration
deporting them and so they're not cooperating. Ms. Giovagnoli,
is anyone taking your place as ombudsman?
Ms. Giovagnoli. No one's been hired for my position, no.
There's an acting ombuds but that person is actually also the
acting Commissioner of the Children's Bureau, I believe so.
They're not doing my job really.
Senator Durbin. Ms. Hopper, I understand the Administration
is removed more than 70 percent of the workforce monitoring and
combating trafficking in persons and delayed the release of its
annual report documenting human trafficking. Does this rollback
of investigative and oversight resources help in the cause of
making sure children are not trafficked?
Ms. Hopper. I think when you inherit a burning building,
you need to focus on putting out the fire in the house and then
focus on recovery of the house. And so right now, focusing on
closing the borders, getting out the worst in our country and
finding these children is a priority, so.
Senator Durbin. If the building's on fire, the first call
is for firefighters to come and help, right?
Ms. Hopper. Yes.
Senator Durbin. In this case, the building's on fire. And
the first thing we're doing is calling the fire department
saying, ``Don't report, we don't need any additional people on
the scene.'' Don't we need both?
Ms. Hopper. We need Border Patrol agents to protect our
borders and to get out the worst of the worst.
Senator Durbin. Yes. And do we also need people to work
with unaccompanied children and others who are trying to find a
safe way through our system?
Ms. Hopper. Absolutely.
Senator Durbin. Thank you.
Chair Cornyn. I know we have other folks on this side of
the aisle that plan on coming but in the meantime, we'll go
ahead with Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Border security is
important and a part of border security is what happens to
unaccompanied minor children. I introduced a Fair Day In Court
For Kids Act, which would ensure unaccompanied children with
legal representation in immigration court. And like Senator
Durbin, I have visited the immigration court in Maryland and
unaccompanied children who have to contend with immigration
court.
And children as young as--I know that Senator Durbin had
noted that he has seen children as young as under 5 years old
having to stand before the judge. You have to help the child
get on a seat. How is that child supposed to contend with this
kind of system? So having representation, legal representation
is important and there's no way that, as I said, a child can
navigate our complex immigration system on his or her own. And
immigration judges are a hundred times less likely to provide
relief to unaccompanied children without Counsel, as compared
to children who have Counsel.
But I also mentioned this because legal representation is a
powerful weapon against these children being trafficked. I have
a number of questions for Ms. Giovagnoli. So, do you agree that
having children have legal Counsel is an important way for us
to contend with the dilemmas faced by unaccompanied minors in
our country?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Legal Counsel is essential Senator. And I
think the whole community is grateful to you for reintroducing
the Fair Day and Court Act precisely because it recognizes that
every unaccompanied child should have legal representation.
Senator Hirono. The thing is that earlier this year, this
Administration attempted to cut funding for legal
representation. We don't even provide legal representation for
all the children but that there was some funding for that and
there was an attempt to cut this funding for these vulnerable
children. It is incredible that this destructive move is
actually going to help traffickers because I think that it
provides a fertile ground for children who do not have this
kind of support for the traffickers to move in.
And the Trump Administration recently detained roughly 600
military lawyers, JAG lawyers to serve as temporary immigration
judges. And these military officers will serve as--I mean, they
do have other jobs that they're supposed to be doing as JAG
officers but then these military officers will serve as judges
for who knows how long, typically an immigration judge receives
months of classroom-based training and on the job training,
including a mentorship program that lasts more than a year.
So, it is a specialized thing to be an immigration judge. I
mention all of this because one of the most important jobs that
an immigration judge has is to look for signs of trafficking,
especially considering the Administration's attempted reduction
of funding for lawyers for unaccompanied minors. It will be
that much more important for these judges to guard against
trafficking.
So training is important. You can't just move 600 JAG
people to become immigration judges and you know frankly, a lot
of that is being done simply to move things along, not
necessary to protect the minors. So Mr. Chairman, I'm glad that
you're holding this hearing but I note that we do not have
anybody from the current Administration to provide us with an
opportunity to question what is actually going on today,
especially since mere weeks ago this Administration tried to
send scores of vulnerable children back to Guatemala as noted
with no due process in the middle of the night against their
wishes and their parents' wishes.
So, somebody had to seek a TRO, which was granted. So, in
the court the Administration tried to argue that this
particular move to deport all these children was done at the
request of the children's parents, not so. The Administration
withdrew that claim when it became clear that that was not the
truth. When an administration withdraws a major claim like that
in court, Congress must get to the bottom of what is going on.
So, again, it would be helpful, Mr. Chairman, if we
actually have somebody from this Administration to respond to
our questions. Back to Ms. Giovagnoli, I'm running out of time.
Are you con confident that these temporary JAG judges will be
able to do the job as they're just sort of moved over to do
immigration?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Well, with respect to the judges who are
being put in this position, I think that without the proper
training--particularly if they're going to be seeing children's
cases--it can be really--it will be really a disaster for the
children who appear before a judge who isn't trained in the
immigration law and in the special needs of a child.
Senator Hirono. And we note that your position has not been
filled. So, there is no ombudsman for these unaccompanied
children. And I do want to know Mr. Chairman, that this
Administration is using so called wellness checks to check up
on children. And while they're added, they scoop up people who
may be have been vetted but who may not be documented.
And so, they are scooped up because the Administration has
a goal of arresting at least 3000 people a day. Some of them
for deportation purposes, some of them may be U.S. citizens.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chair Cornyn. Well, it strikes me that the argument that
you're making is that the welfare of these children should be
sacrificed because somebody in the household might be illegally
present in the United States and subject to deportation.
Senator Britt.
Senator Britt. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, I appreciate
the opportunity to have this hearing today and want to thank
all of the witnesses for your time and ability to come and
speak to us on this important issue. Chief Clem, I'm going to
start with you. You served in Border Patrol for over 27 years
and so I know you've had a front row seat to witness the crisis
at our Southern Border and including the spike in arrivals of
UACs.
I know that you've talked a little bit about this today.
But specifically, I believe we need to amend Section 235 of the
Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008,
which is primary, the loophole that is used in our laws to
incentivize the illegal immigration of UACs to our Southern
Border. I've been proud to co-sponsor a number of bills that
will actually do just that but it's also worth noting that
historically that has been a bipartisan position.
June 2014, President Obama sent a letter to congressional
leadership asking Congress to amend this act. And even the
Washington Post editorial board followed suit in August 2014.
Can you explain to everyone how Section 235 of the TVPRA has
incentivized illegal migration of UACs to the Southern Border,
particularly UACs from non-contiguous countries?
Mr. Clem. I'm going to do my best to recall that specific
section but what I understand, the TVPRA and especially having
worked up in Washington, DC as the CBP head for President
Obama's executive actions during that timeframe, when we saw
that initial push of UACs in South Texas. TVPRA allows for
immediate repatriation to contiguous countries, Mexico and
Canada.
Senator Britt. Right.
Mr. Clem. What we need and when you get to the incentivize,
is why are we separating Canada and Mexico from all the other
countries, especially those in our hemisphere, central America,
who are generally allies. Why would we not treat the UACs with
a rapid repatriation once we've done an initial screening to
ensure that they're not trafficked or not victims of any kind
of abuse but once that's cleared, we should treat them and get
them back to their home country as quickly as possible.
Just like we would do with the Canadian national or a
Mexican national. I think that would close a loophole and keep
the family. Because that's oftentimes what happens. The
families are separated before they even get to our border. Come
up with a more clear and direct process for someone to lawfully
immigrate United States versus sending their child in here and
then hoping they can reconnect later.
Senator Britt. Right. And look, I believe that this creates
a safety issue, not only in many times for the lives of the
UACs but also for the American people in many ways. And in
June, 2024, a report from the House Judiciary Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security and Enforcement discussed the
fact that at the time more than 400,000 UACs were released to
sponsors by the Biden, Harris Administration, which is a 100
percent increase compared to that of the first Trump
Administration.
Most of them were teenage boys. And if you look at it,
nearly 70 percent of UACs referred to HHS were 15 years of age
or older. And in fact, only 19 percent were actually under the
age of 12. And the report also found that HHS did not have a
policy to refer known gang members to the Justice Department.
Additionally, it went on HHS did not ask UACs' home country and
consulates or embassies for their criminal record, despite
having the actual ability to do that.
And HHS admitted that it did not currently have any secure
facilities designed for the secure placement of UACs who posed
a danger to themselves or those who had been determined to have
a criminal record. So, it's worth noting and remembering the
Biden, Harris Administration released a 17-year-old MS-13 gang
member who had entered the country as a UAC and then went on to
sexually assault and murder 20-year-old Kyla Hamilton.
For the record, Kyla was an actual legal resident of
Maryland, unlike others who we've heard a lot about in the last
couple of months. Chief Clem in my remaining minute here, what
reforms do you think are needed within the UAC program to
prevent future release of UACs who actually pose a threat to
the safety of Americans?
Mr. Clem. Yes. We cannot dismiss the fact that many of
these kids, as you mentioned, are 15 or older. They're much
more, in my opinion, mature than some of the 15-year-olds here
in the United States. They've had a hardened life but they've
been exposed to these gangs and they're willing to do the work
of the gangs and for the safety of other children and for
safety of the United States. We have to look at this from a law
enforcement perspective, first to protect everybody.
So, I would make sure that we have separate funding and
facilities for those that are believed to be criminal, illegal,
alien children associated with gangs. So we can make sure that
they are not put into settings or released to other gang
members.
Senator Britt. Right.
Mr. Clem. This is what it's all about. In order to find
this bipartisan solution, we have to recognize that there is a
criminal element associated with illegally--in the United
States, whether you're an adult or a child, let's focus on that
piece to protect everyone involved, most importantly, the
American citizens, but the migrants themselves and then start
taking small chunks at the immigration system overall.
But we cannot sit there and broad brush and say every child
over here and every sponsor is doing this for the right reason
because we've got proof, the otherwise. So we have to put law
enforcement as a priority first to protect Americans and these
children. After that, you got an uphill battle on solving the
immigration piece but it should be a quick solution to target
the criminal element involved in all of this.
Senator Britt. Thank you so much, Chief Clem, and I'll
submit the rest of my questions for the record. Thank you.
Chair Cornyn. So Chief, with 500,000 unaccompanied children
during the Biden Administration, 4 years, we know those numbers
have dropped precipitously since that time in terms of the
number of unaccompanied minors coming into the country. And I
think the total for 2025 is roughly 28,000. So that's 500,000,
28,000 now. So it's dropped dramatically. What would you
attribute that drop in the number of unaccompanied children
showing up at the border to?
Mr. Clem. Well, most importantly, it's the enforcement
action at the border. It's the consequences for anybody that
crosses the border. And exactly what some of the concerns are
that have been spoke about today is that we are going after the
sponsors. We are making sure that we are putting the child's
best interest first.
So, when length of the care goes up from 60 days to 6
months, that's a good thing because we're making sure we're not
putting them back into a potential criminal environment. And
yes, if somebody in that family is undocumented, they should be
arrested and detained, and the family can stay together. So,
when you see that drop, that's because enforcement is taking
place that had been virtually not used or should I rephrase
that, that it wasn't done at the level that it could have been
done over the previous administrations.
Senator Cornyn. So, Ms. Giovagnoli, do you agree with Chief
Clem that if in fact a member of the household where these
children are placed with a sponsor, if they in fact are
illegally present in the United States, that they should be
deported?
Ms. Giovagnoli. I think it depends on the situation but
they shouldn't be--you know what, let me say it a different
way.
Chair Cornyn. Well, I'd like you to answer my question.
Ms. Giovagnoli. Well, I'm trying to. I'm just trying to
think about the best way to do it. The mere fact that someone
is here unlawfully without authorization doesn't necessarily
mean that they should be deported.
Chair Cornyn. It's a crime.
Ms. Giovagnoli. Is it?
Chair Cornyn. Yes.
Ms. Giovagnoli. I don't think so. It's a civil matter.
Chair Cornyn. No, it's a crime.
Ms. Giovagnoli. It's a civil matter.
Chair Cornyn. So, you don't think that people illegally
present should be deported?
Ms. Giovagnoli. It depends on the situation.
Chair Cornyn. Okay. Well, is that why you--while you worked
for the Department of Health and Human Services and that you
did not seek to vet the other members of the household where
these children were placed?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Well, Senator, first of all, many of the
allegations about improper vetting and things like that
actually occurred before I got to HHS. Second, my job----
Chair Cornyn. I'm talking about on your watch. Did you see
children placed with sponsors in households where the other
members of the household were unvetted?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Sir, my job was to receive reports from all
stakeholders and investigate those reports. I did not get
reports of that kind. So, I don't have an answer for you
because I wasn't involved in that part of the process.
Chair Cornyn. Well, don't you think it would be a good idea
to vet the other members of the household to see if maybe,
let's say, one of them is not a sex offender?
Ms. Giovagnoli. I think that the vetting standards that are
in place now and those standards have increased significantly
allow or are to do that in many situations. But also, the
important thing is that if you have enough information that you
can determine that the child is going to be placed safely, you
continue to check on that child.
And under the Biden Administration, the post release
services went from only 20 percent of children to a 100 percent
of children in terms of having other followups and other points
of contact. You also have attorneys to make sure that the
children are safe.
Chair Cornyn. Well, I thought the New York Times when they
went through an investigation, they tried to followup on these
unaccompanied children placed with sponsors and I believe the
number is 85,000 cases and there was no answer. Does that
concern you?
Ms. Giovagnoli. If that was the only piece of information
that identified whether or not a child was missing or not,
maybe. But that's not the case. Calling a family and them not
answering doesn't mean anything if they have eventually caught
back up with the family in another way----
Chair Cornyn. It means they don't know--you don't know
about the welfare of that child.
Ms. Giovagnoli. No, it doesn't, not at all. It's one data
point in a much more elaborate set of contact.
Chair Cornyn. So you call the house to check on the welfare
of the child and nobody answers and that's not a concern of
yours?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Let's say you call the house to check on
the child and nobody answers. If you do it again, and you do it
again, and you do it again as they would in the child welfare
system. The first call, which is all that we're talking about,
is not the only way that they are in contact with.
Chair Cornyn. So you think losing each is okay? You don't.
Ms. Giovagnoli. I don't think they're lost--I don't think
they're lost. No. Senator.
Chair Cornyn. How do you know--how do you know what's
happened to them? Nobody is answering the phone. Let me turn to
you, Chief Clem. And Ms. Hopper, do you think it's a problem to
place these children with sponsors in a home where you don't
know who else is living in the household, Ms. Hopper?
Ms. Hopper. It absolutely is. And when Ms. Giovagnoli
mentioned the phone calls, there were two phone calls. And when
Senator Moody mentioned that State agencies were trying to do
welfare checks on the children sent to Florida, DCF Director,
Shevaun Harris, came here, sat at this table last year in a
Senate round table and said that State agencies were being
stonewalled from receiving the information of these sponsors
and where they were sent. So State agencies could not conduct
welfare checks.
Why would Federal agencies stonewall State agencies from
conducting welfare checks to ensure the welfare and the well-
being of a child in their State?
Chair Cornyn. Chief Clem, do you agree with Ms. Hopper?
Mr. Clem. I agree, putting my law enforcement hat on, that
is always my concern, knowing what is happening at the border,
the fact that there is so much trafficking and transnational
criminal organizations have their hands in everything to put
the well-being of this child as a priority, we have to
followup. We have to know who is in that household.
We need to know the background checks of all those. So yes,
the first call needs to be followed up with a knock on the door
and if necessary, a kick in the door to find out if these kids
are there and if they're taken care of.
Chair Cornyn. Well, my friend and colleague, Senator
Padilla mentioned root causes. So the Border Patrol, I've
learned everything I know about the border from the Border
Patrol in my State and elsewhere. And what they've told me is
that there are things called push factors and pull factors. In
other words, the push factors are things you would expect,
poverty, violence, maybe a desire for a better life, something
we can all identify with. But the pull factor is what is the
reward being given to somebody who comes to the country outside
of legal channels?
And do you believe the pull factors during the last 4
years, during the preceding administration were significant
influence on the number and the volume of unaccompanied
children that made their way to the border? And as we know,
there were half a million of them?
Mr. Clem. Yes, that's exactly my experience from day one in
the Border Patrol to the time I retired. When we have policies
that incentivize, a catch and release or a quick release into
the country, that is a pull factor. It's what I mentioned
earlier, that the transnational criminal organizations are
watching and listening to everything we say. So, they're
changing their business model on what we're doing here.
So, when we stand strong and enforce the law and hold
people accountable and give consequences, we see that reduction
at the border and the numbers show that. When we don't, when we
overcrowd facilities, when we catch and release, when we do not
do what's best in the child's interest, at least outwardly
facing that incentivized, that becomes a pull factor.
And we've seen that play time and time again throughout my
career.
Chair Cornyn. So, if you're truly concerned about the
welfare of these children, it strikes me as one of the most
important things you can do is enforce the law, secure the
border, and discourage people from coming in the first place.
Mr. Clem. I agree. And that's what we're doing right now as
I mentioned in my opening statement, how we have special agents
responding to the field where these encounters are happening to
make sure that we can mitigate any criminal activity right then
and there. So we can start right off the bat that we are
reducing the likelihood of this child being trafficked and
placed them in harm's way when they're ultimately released from
ORR or if we are able to repatriate them back to their country.
That's what law enforcement does.
Chair Cornyn. Thank you. Senator Padilla.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple of followup
questions for Ms. Giovagnoli before I ask about post release
services. So, let's put a pin in that. I'll come back to that
in a minute here but I want to afford you an opportunity to
further respond to a couple of issues that have come up
previously by some of my colleagues.
Number one, the value and importance of access to Counsel
for unaccompanied children. Number two, anything further to add
on this as we recognize, unwillingness or reluctance sometimes
on the part of a parent or a sponsor to engage in this process.
Generally, but also what that means for the accuracy and value
of underlying data as a result.
I mean, the one example you kept pointing to, just because
the first call doesn't get answered, it doesn't mean that a
second or third call may not. There's a lot more to it than
that. And third, just from a governance and oversight
standpoint, the distinction between an ombuds person and an
inspector general--pluses and minuses in the value of an ombuds
office as no longer exists.
I know those are three big ones before I get to my post
release services question, those are in any particular order.
Ms. Giovagnoli. Those are three big ones. Let me work
backward. The Ombuds office still has staff. We have a deputy
but it has been seriously curtailed by the HHS administration.
And it is not allowed to do the kind of oversight, the kind of
visits, the kind of investigations that we had envisioned. I
think that's critical. Anyone that is calling on more
investigation into when things go wrong should recognize that
accountability starts at that basic level of an Ombuds Office
that can pick up the questions when they first come up,
whatever they are. And in fact, even though I was in the Trump
Administration for the first month, at least not once was I
ever invited or asked to participate in any of the meetings
that were taking place about the new vetting or any of these
other programs. So, I have no idea what was actually going on
in that room, but it wasn't transparent.
Senator Padilla. And pardon the interruption here but does
the apparent change in mission or priority combined with the
reduction in resource help or hurt the cause of addressing the
concern of unaccompanied children?
Ms. Giovagnoli. It hurts it, of course. You asked me
several questions and I got so riled up on that last one that
I've now forgotten.
Senator Padilla. Access to Counsel, importance value, of
course, access to Counsel or reduce access to Counsel for
unaccompanied children.
Ms. Giovagnoli. Well, I think that one of the unfortunate
things about the discussion so far today has been that we have
focused so much on the very tragic situations and which should
never happen. No child should be subject to this kind of harm
and abuse ever. But we neglect to mention that there are
thousands and thousands and thousands of children who have
become thriving, successful young adults because they were
given the opportunity to be protected in the United States. I
used to work at Kids in Need of Defense and legal services
organization that represented thousands of children over the
years who are now contributing to the United States in
wonderful ways. And that in and of itself should identify the
importance of having representation. As Senator Hirono says,
there is a higher likelihood that a child will receive some
type of protection in the United States because there is an
attorney.
And that's because immigration law is so incredibly
complicated and asylum, and trafficking protections and all the
different kinds of things that a child might be eligible for
are extremely complex, difficult things to do that a child on
their own simply can't. They don't know the legal standard, let
alone have probably the developmental ability to be able to
articulate everything that's happened to them without guidance.
Senator Padilla. Thank you. And the third was, any further
comment on the willingness versus reluctance of a parent to a
sponsor to field the phone call or otherwise?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Yes. Absolutely, there's no question that
the more that ICE becomes the face of child protection in the
United States, the more it is that parents and sponsors are
going to be reluctant to participate. And I should note that
the Inspector General's report that listed the 291,000 NTAs
that ICE did not issue. It was not a report that was talking
about HHS, it was talking about ICE failures to communicate
with HHS. It was talking about ICE failures to not followup,
even though the Biden Administration's legal advisor for ICE
had set up a protocol for looking for children, say, who had
not appeared in court.
So, there are many, many--as I always used to tell my
staff, there's never two sides to a story. There's five or six
or seven and I'm afraid that we've really only seen maybe one
and a half sides today.
Senator Padilla. Okay. Thank you for that. And now finally,
my post release services question. I have additional ones. I'm
mindful of the time of day. I can submit some for questions for
the record. But on this point, which I think is important to
cover today, before an unaccompanied child is placed with a
sponsor, the Office of Refugees Resettlement, ORR must, at a
minimum determine that the sponsor is ``Capable of providing
for the child's physical and mental well-being?''
Ms. Giovagnoli. Yes.
Senator Padilla. ``Once placed, ORR's post-release services
can be crucial in ensuring the well-being of an unaccompanied
children as they integrate into communities.'' So my question,
in an ideal world should all children receive post release
services and how do these services work in conjunction with the
vetting that happened prior to the placement to protect
children from exploitation or trafficking?
Ms. Giovagnoli. Yes, in an ideal world, they should receive
those kinds of services. Post release services provide
opportunities to help with adjustment to the community. So,
enrolling in school, identifying mental or physical health
issues that may not have been apparent or develop after the
fact. Many of these children, as everyone has said, have
suffered some serious trauma. Some of them are victims of
trafficking. Some of those things do not emerge in the time
that they're in custody. It's only when they meet with someone
that they trust that they start to tell their real stories.
Senator Padilla. Thank you.
Chair Cornyn. The grand jury report that Senator Moody was
referring to dated March 30, 2023 will be made part of the
record without objection. So the record will stay open for 1
week for Members to submit additional questions. So, you may be
hearing from Members of the Committee and we'd appreciate your
attention to those and prompt response if you do get those. And
with that thank you for being here.
Senator Padilla. Mr. Chair, if I may for----
Chair Cornyn. Sure.
Senator Padilla. In closing, just a few thoughts and
remarks. First, I would move to enter into a number of
statements into the record including the statement from Kids in
Need of Defense, the statement from the Acacia Center for
Justice, the statement from the American Pediatric Association,
and the statement from the American Psychological Association
of Services.
And I just want to thank the witnesses for your time and
your participation today. I think we should all agree that we
want to ensure the safety and well-being of unaccompanied
children just as a human concern while we struggle to modernize
our immigration system as a whole. It saddens me that we have
not made the progress in the last 8 months, the last 4 years,
et cetera, that we should have.
But we have an obligation to put aside some political
theater and conduct true oversight of the disturbing
allegations sent to us by whistleblowers, not just to look back
to the prior administration. Let's look at what's happening as
we speak. We have an obligation, therefore, to also ask the
Trump Administration tough questions and demand transparency.
We need to do more to ensure that children are not
needlessly separated from their parents. We need to do better
to account for parents or sponsors sometimes reluctant or fear
of participating in the process in a dynamic that Senator
Durbin has articulated. I do believe it is possible, in fact,
it's imperative that we balance being protective without
keeping kids in custody for overly extended periods of time,
which does tend to cause them harm as well.
It's a delicate balance but a necessary balance. And at the
very least, we need to make sure that these children have
access to the services and the support that they need,
including access to Counsel as Senator Hirono has championed,
along with the post release services that we just discussed.
All in an effort to keep them safe able when they're released
to vetted sponsors. After all, these are children, they're
minors.
In some cases, preschoolers, not unlike those being
portrayed in the chart behind me, that the Administration is
currently forcing to go into immigration court alone. So, Mr.
Chair, I again ask that you join me in calling for that
accountability. We are the Committee of Jurisdiction, so let's
hold an oversight hearing. Let's go to one of these shelters
and see what's really happening to children currently and what
conditions are being held on today.
[Poster is displayed.]
And last, a comment or a response to a comment that I heard
earlier about the worst among us. As you've heard me say
repeatedly, Mr. Chairman, all year long, if this Administration
was truly only targeting the `` Worst among us,'' the
dangerous, violent criminals that they like to talk about so
very often, there would be no debate, there would be no
discussion. But ICE's data, the Department of Homeland
Securities data, has shown what we have believed all along. The
vast majority of people being detained, being arrested, many
being deported even without due process, are not the dangerous
violent criminals, the convicted criminals that they speak of.
There are people who happen to be undocumented for a number
of reasons. Maybe they were here initially lawfully because of
TPS and that has been taken away from them by this President.
Maybe they came initially lawfully on a VISA of some sort and
have overstayed that VISA. That doesn't mean that they came
here unlawfully but they now find themselves in that category.
And yes, some that did come unlawfully but have no criminal
convictions on their record. But many work in industries that
our Federal Government deems is essential. Whether it's in
construction, whether it's in agriculture, whether it's in
hospitality or healthcare or otherwise, they deserve better
than to live in fear of deportation.
They are not the dangerous, violent criminals that this
Administration likes to talk about. That is the reality of the
times that we're living in. We can and must do better. And this
is the Committee of Jurisdiction. I look forward to working
with you, Mr. Chairman, to tackle these problems with serious
constructive engagement. And I thank you for the hearing today.
Chair Cornyn. One final unanimous consent request. We have
examples of bills or amendments containing text designed to fix
the loophole in the TVPRA UAC loophole, which will be made part
of the record, without objection.
Chair Cornyn. Thank you all for being here. The hearing is
now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:56 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows.]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
A P P E N D I X
The following submissions are available at:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-119shrg62654/pdf/CHRG-
119shrg
62654-add1.pdf
Submitted by Chair Cornyn:
Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the
U.S.-The New York Times, article.............................. 2
As Migrant Children Were Put to Work, U.S. Ignored Warnings-The
New York Times, article....................................... 24
For migrant girls, new lives in U.S. bring risk of sexual abuse,
The Atlanta Journal Constitution, article..................... 43
UAC Hearing-Examples of Bills.................................... 57
Submitted by Ranking Member Padilla:
Acacia Center for Justice, statement............................. 59
Academic Pediatric Association, American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Pediatric Society, Association of Medical School
Pediatric Department Chairs, National Association of Pediatric
Nurse Practitioners, Pediatric Policy Council, Society for
Adolescent Health and Medicine, Society for Pediatric
Research, letter.............................................. 69
American Psychological Association Services (APAS), letter....... 74
Government Accountability Project, Protected Whistleblower
Disclosure, statement......................................... 76
Kids in Need of Defense (KIND), statement........................ 78
Padilla and Durbin, Call for Oversight Hearings, After
Whistleblower Report Alleges Trump Admin Lied About Safety of
Unaccompanied Guatemalan Children to Deport Them, The
Washington Post, article...................................... 86
Psychiatry Online, article....................................... 88
Trump's mass deportations bring a new wave of family separations,
article....................................................... 99
Whistleblower Account Contradicts Government's Claims on
Guatemalan Children, The New York Times, article.............. 106
[all]