[Senate Hearing 119-266]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                   S. Hrg. 119-266

                            BUSINESS MEETING

=======================================================================

                                MEETING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            JANUARY 23, 2025

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
  
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
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                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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               COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

             SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman
            SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member

KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    MARK KELLY, Arizona
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 ALEX PADILLA, California
PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska              ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi         LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
JON HUSTED, Ohio

               Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
                  Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

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                                                                   Page

                            JANUARY 23, 2025
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode 
  Island.........................................................     1
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West 
  Virginia.......................................................     3

                              LEGISLATION

PN547, Nomination Reference and Report, Lee M. Zeldin, of New 
  York, to be Administrator of the Environmental Protection 
  Agency.........................................................     6

 
                            BUSINESS MEETING

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                       THURSDAY, JANUARY 23, 2025

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:17 a.m. in room 
406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore Capito 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Senators Capito, Whitehouse, Cramer, Lummis, 
Curtis, Graham, Sullivan, Ricketts, Wicker, Boozman, Moran, 
Sanders, Merkley, Kelly, Padilla, Schiff, Blunt Rochester, 
Alsobrooks.
    Senator Capito. In the interest of time for everybody, very 
busy day with the hearings, I know Veterans Affairs has a 
hearing as well, I thought we would go ahead and begin the 
hearing, and then as soon as we have full attendance over here 
on my side, we will begin the vote. We will suspend any kind of 
talking while we do the vote, then we will resume after the 
vote.
    I am going to ask my Ranking Member, Senator Whitehouse, if 
he would like to make an opening statement about the nominee, 
or about anything, the weather, it is cold.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND

    Senator Whitehouse. Yes, those are not unrelated.
    Three days ago, President Trump took office and as 
Americans will recall, one of his oft-repeated pledges through 
the campaign was that he was going to lower costs for 
consumers. Yet, on the first night of his second term in 
office, he signed a raft of anti-environmental executive orders 
that, if implemented, will lead to higher prices for consumers. 
By the way, worse economic headwinds for our American economy.
    Let's do a quick review. He directed EPA to revisit rules 
that limit pollution from cars, trucks and power plants. If the 
Trump EPA rescinds these rules, consumers will pay thousands of 
dollars more for gasoline, hundreds of dollars a year more for 
their electric bill, and that is money out of the pocket of 
almost every American, transferred into the pocket of the oil 
and gas industry that funded Trump's campaign.
    He ordered a halt to offshore and onshore wind projects. 
Wind energy is key to reducing pollution and achieving 
affordable, stable energy prices. Less wind energy means more 
electricity demand met by combusting expensive and dirty fossil 
fuels, not to mention ceding our global competitive position in 
that industry to other countries.
    He ordered a reversal of energy efficiency standards for 
household appliances which would have saved the average 
American over $100 per year. He ordered a dramatic reduction in 
the social cost of carbon, the metric used to estimate the 
harms, the harms to public health, to agriculture, and to the 
economy of each ton of carbon pollution emitted.
    A free-to-pollute business model serves the fossil fuel 
industry and only the fossil fuel industry. It is morally, 
economically, and environmentally wrong. He ordered EPA to 
revisit whether greenhouse gases are pollutants under the Clean 
Air Act. Reverse that finding and there is no way for EPA to 
reduce the pollution driving climate-flation and insurance and 
groceries, rising sea levels and threatened homes along our 
coastlines, and of course, the wildfires we are seeing in Los 
Angeles and the flooding that we saw in North Carolina.
    All of this poses a systemic risk to our economy. The Trump 
agenda, after receiving immense funding from fossil fuel, is to 
break down climate change protections so that his big oil 
donors can sell more oil and gas and pollute for free, which 
brings us to Lee Zeldin.
    The question becomes, is this gentleman capable of standing 
against that big oil political juggernaut? Sadly, all signs 
point to no. His consulting for Trump-affiliated organizations, 
and his op-eds spouting big oil-approved talking points do not 
inspire confidence. He sits on the board of a Trump-affiliated 
dark money operation and will not disclose its donors, even to 
the ethics officials looking for conflicts of interest at EPA.
    I think the American people deserve to know who the donors 
are, and of course, so does EPA's ethics teams, so they can 
know whether decisions he makes at EPA are driven by those 
donor interests or by the public interest.
    He did not disavow moving EPA's headquarters, saying only 
that he hasn't been told of any plans. When asked if he 
supported traumatizing or firing most of EPA's staff, he 
equivocated: ``I look forward to working with the talented 
career staff at EPA,'' and ``I look forward to working with the 
very talented career staff at EPA'' is how he non-answered.
    He refused to acknowledge the price of oil is set by a 
cartel and driven by geopolitical events over which we have no 
control. When asked about wind power, he spouted fossil fuel-
funded talking points about harms to marine life that are 
offensive to anyone who knows anything about oceans and marine 
life.
    We are in a perilous moment, colleagues. We have moved from 
the time of climate lines, frustrating and infuriating as that 
period was, to the time of climate consequences. We see already 
the leading edge of economic danger in the present-term oil and 
property insurance markets. You may not like the Budget 
Committee report on non-renewals. Treasury just did its own 
report, coming to the same conclusions.
    The Financial Stability Board in this report just echoed my 
warnings of a cascading economic failure, from insurance 
markets to mortgages and real eState markets, and through that 
to a general shock to our economic system. It is not the first 
report to say that. Under Trump, a Commodities Futures Trading 
Commission report found, and I am quoting it, ``Climate change 
poses a major risk to the stability of the U.S. financial 
system and climate change could pose systemic risks to the U.S. 
financial system.'' If colleagues did not know what systemic 
risks are, have someone look it up. It is a frightening phrase.
    The Economist Magazine, not exactly the Green New Deal 
publication, put this warning on its cover: ``The Next Housing 
Disaster,'' that climate change is going to shake the 
foundations of the world's largest asset class.
    Guess what? Mother Nature does not care about politics. As 
Pope Francis said, ``Slap her, and she will slap you back.'' 
Insurance is already feeling her slap.
    There was a time when Republican Presidents picked serious, 
independent people to run the EPA. George W. Bush chose 
Christie Whitman. Ronald Reagan chose Bill Ruckelshaus. In this 
dangerous time, I do not see Mr. Zeldin having the independence 
to lead the agency in a manner that will protect us against 
these looming dangers. He does not even seem to see that they 
exist.
    For that reason, I will vote no, and urge a no vote.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, 
          U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA

    Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
    We are waiting for one more member on our side, so I will 
commence with my opening statement. You can imagine it is in 
stark disagreement with my Ranking Member. I did not think this 
bodes for the future of our bipartisanship here before the 
committee.
    I want to thank you again for the generous gift. I did not 
bring my new gavel, because--do you remember that gavel they 
had in the House and the Speaker hit it and the head flew off?
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Capito. Yes. I didn't want to damage it, so I 
didn't bring it.
    Senator Whitehouse. It is a West Virginia gavel.
    Senator Capito. Well, then it will stay strong. This is 
true. I should have more confidence.
    Last week we heard from Congressman Zeldin on his plans for 
the agency and his views of the EPA's role in protecting public 
health and the environment, and how the agency's actions 
intersect with our economy. Congressman Zeldin, I think, was an 
excellent witness. He described his intent to take a 
collaborative approach, both as Administrator, demonstrated 
also through his work with Congress and this committee and all 
of its members to address the pressing issues of environmental 
needs that our Nation faces in this moment.
    In particular, I deeply appreciated Congressman Zeldin's 
efforts to meet with all the members of the committee prior to 
his hearing, and his commitment to work with all of us to 
address the issues we have raised that impact our constituents, 
States, and our Country. If he said it once, he said it 
probably a dozen times that transparency is going to be one of 
the hallmarks of his service.
    I believe he is well qualified for the position of 
Administrator and will be an excellent addition to the 
President's Cabinet. His past experience as the Congressman 
representing New York's First congressional District gives him 
a unique understanding of how Congress makes laws, oversees the 
executive branch, and what is expected when it gives a mandate 
to Federal agencies.
    As a representative from a northeastern State, and a 
district with a diverse set of political views, he understands 
what it means to build consensus to achieve durable results. He 
also has the necessary experience and integrity as a veteran of 
the war on terrorism, a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve, 
an attorney and a former Congressman, to implement the 
President's agenda at the agency pursuant to congressionally 
provided authority.
    Finally, I was very pleased during his testimony to see how 
he intends to run the agency in line with the laws that the 
Congress has passed with the goal of prioritizing EPA's actions 
on the core responsibilities of the agency that are essential 
to protecting health and our land, air, and water.
    As we have seen over the past 25 years, the policies of the 
EPA can have a significant impact on not just the environment, 
but our economy. The EPA should support policies and set rules 
that improve the environment while allowing innovators to grow 
the economy and protecting the pocketbook of American families. 
I believe that is a win-win.
    Unfortunately, too often the EPA has strayed from its 
mission, instead smothered small businesses and communities, I 
can speak from experience, my State of West Virginia, with red 
tape, and forced higher costs on our constituents, a lose-lose. 
My home State of West Virginia, as I stated, has felt the 
negative impacts of EPA's regulatory over-reach in years, 
devastating portions of our State's economy and putting my 
constituents out of work.
    Congressman Zeldin has shown that he understands the 
importance of striking the right balance to improve the lives 
of Americans across the Country and to protect the environment 
while also uplifting communities and cities across the Nation.
    I urge our colleagues to support Congressman Zeldin's 
nomination, so we can get the EPA back to the basics of 
improving the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the land 
that we use.
    Senator Capito. I see my chair over there is still empty. I 
will say disappointedly so from my angle. Does anybody have any 
other comments?
    We will just hold here, we will pause for a moment. Thanks.
    Senator Whitehouse. Just to be clear, the Chair has invited 
further comments, if you want to make them. Also, we will be 
sticking around after the vote. If the vote suddenly starts up 
and you have to vote but you also want to make a statement, and 
you want to do it in person here in the committee, you will be 
afforded that opportunity, for those who came after we agreed 
to that.
    [Pause.]
    Senator Capito. All right, at this time I will ask Senators 
to hold their remarks. I will now call up the Presidential 
Nomination No. 11-23, Lee M. Zeldin of New York to be 
Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.
    I move to approve and report the nomination favorably. Is 
there a second?
    Senator Sanders. Second.
    Senator Capito. Thank you very much. The Clerk will call 
the roll.
    The Clerk. Ms. Alsobrooks?
    Senator Alsobrooks. I vote no.
    The Clerk. Ms. Blunt Rochester?
    Senator Blunt Rochester. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Boozman?
    Senator Boozman. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Cramer?
    Senator Cramer. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Curtis?
    Senator Curtis. Yes.
    The Clerk. Mr. Graham?
    Senator Graham. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Kelly?
    Senator Kelly. Aye.
    The Clerk. Ms. Lummis?
    Senator Lummis. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Markey?
    Senator Whitehouse. No by proxy.
    The Clerk. Mr. Merkley?
    Senator Merkley. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Moran?
    Senator Moran. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Padilla?
    Senator Padilla. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Ricketts?
    Senator Ricketts. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sanders?
    Senator Sanders. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Schiff?
    Senator Shiff. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Sullivan?
    Senator Sullivan. Aye.
    The Clerk. Mr. Whitehouse?
    Senator Whitehouse. No.
    The Clerk. Mr. Wicker?
    Senator Wicker. Aye.
    The Clerk. Madam Chairman?
    Senator Capito. Aye.
    The Clerk will report the yeas and nays.
    The Clerk. Madam Chairman, the yeas were 11, the nays were 
8.
    Senator Capito. With that, the nominee is favorably 
reported and the Chair notes for the record the presence of a 
quorum.
    If anybody has remarks, we can move forward. I thank you 
all for coming. We had great full attendance here. Thank you 
for being here.
    Does anybody have any remarks they would like to make? If 
there are no remarks, I would call this business meeting now 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 9:32 a.m., the business meeting was 
adjourned.]

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