[Senate Hearing 119-267]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-267
BUSINESS MEETING
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MEETING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 5, 2025
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-637 WASHINGTON : 2026
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COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia, Chairman
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island, Ranking Member
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina MARK KELLY, Arizona
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska ALEX PADILLA, California
PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
JON HUSTED, Ohio
Adam Tomlinson, Republican Staff Director
Dan Dudis, Democratic Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
FEBRUARY 5, 2025
OPENING STATEMENTS
Capito, Hon. Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from the State of West
Virginia....................................................... 1
Whitehouse, Hon. Sheldon, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode
Island......................................................... 3
LEGISLATION
S. 347, to amend the Comprehensive Environmental Response,
Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 to reauthorize
brownfields revitalization funding and for other purposes...... 6
S. 351, to establish a pilot program to improve recycling
accessibility, to require the Administrator of the
Environmental Protection Agency to carry out certain activities
to collect and disseminate certain data on recycling and
composting programs in the United States, and for other
purposes....................................................... 15
S. Res. __, an amendment in the nature of the substitute intended
to be proposed by Senator Capito............................... 41
S. Res. __, authorizing expenditures by the Committee on
Environment and Public Works................................... 46
EPW Committee Rules of Procedure................................. 52
ADDITIONAL MATERIAL
Letter to Senator Capito and Senator Rochester from the
International Council of Shopping Centers (ICSC)............... 58
BUSINESS MEETING
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WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2025
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Environment and Public Works,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:34 a.m. in
room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Shelley Moore
Capito (chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Capito, Whitehouse, Cramer, Lummis,
Curtis, Graham, Sullivan, Ricketts, Wicker, Husted, Merkley,
Kelly, Padilla, Blunt Rochester, Alsobrooks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO,
U.S. STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA
Senator Capito. Good morning to everybody. Committee
members, thank you for being here. I know there is a lot going
on this morning, so I thought it would be best to go ahead and
call this business meeting to order as quickly as we can, now
that we have critical mass here.
I want to thank Ranking Member Whitehouse and his staff for
working with me and my staff to bring two bipartisan bills
before the committee today. I would also like to thank Senator
Boozman for his leadership on the bipartisan recycling
legislation we will consider.
The agenda for this meeting is to hold three votes, after
Ranking Member Whitehouse and I give our opening remarks. The
first vote will be to approve the committee rules and budget
resolution. The next two votes will be to approve bills that
previously passed this committee with unanimous support.
Today we will consider S. 347, the Brownfield
Reauthorization Act of 2025. This bill, which passed
unanimously out of the committee last Congress, will continue
the critical work of the Environmental Protection Agency's
Brownfields program, which I am sure is active in everyone's
State.
Since first being authorized in 2002, the Brownfield
program has been a resounding success story for our economy and
for the environment. Cleaning up abandoned and polluted
brownfields is a powerful economic development tool and
revitalizes rural and economically challenged communities where
it is needed most.
Despite the program's many achievements, the rigorous and
complex grant application process remains a key challenge.
Rural and underserved communities lack the resources needed to
compete with larger entities, putting them in an unfair
position.
Our bill streamlines the application process to level that
playing field. The legislation also modernizes the program's
grant amounts to match current construction costs and project
sizes, aligning them with the reality of doing business today.
I look forward to advancing the Brownfields Reauthorization
Act of 2025 and urge my colleagues to join me in supporting
this passage.
Next, we will consider S. 351, the Strategies to Eliminate
Waste and Accelerate Recycling Development Act, called the
STEWARD Act now. This legislation combines two separate
recycling bills that we had last Congress that were passed
unanimously, not just by this committee, but also unanimously
out of the U.S. Senate.
The STEWARD Act reflects years of collaboration and input
from members of both chambers on both sides of the aisle.
These efforts result in a bipartisan agreement that nearly
became law at the end of last Congress. The STEWARD Act that we
will vote on today preserves that bipartisan language. For too
many Americans, recycling remains out of reach, either because
facilities do not exist in their communities or because the
infrastructure to make recycling economically feasible is not
in place. The STEWARD Act aims to close those gaps by ensuring
that recycling services are available to all communities.
The bill also recognizes that to solve a problem, you need
to measure and understand it first. The data provisions in the
STEWARD Act will empower decisionmakers to track progress,
identifies areas needed for improvement, and make informed
decisions that will drive real change in our Nation's recycling
system.
With these two bills, the committee can begin this Congress
passing legislation through the well-established bipartisan
tradition that has characterized so much of this committee's
success. I urge my colleagues to support both of these
bipartisan bills.
Also on the agenda, as I mentioned, is the necessary
housekeeping items to run the committee, our rules and our
budget. My staff reviewed the previous rules of the committee,
and in coordination with Ranking Member Whitehouse's staff, we
have proposed some updates and streamlining edited for the
rules.
The three main changes to the rules are providing for
receiving sworn testimony from witnesses, having transcripts
kept for business meetings, and setting a clear process for
issuing subpoenas, either by agreement of the Chairman and the
Ranking Member, or by a majority vote of the committee.
Passage of our committee funding resolution is necessary to
ensure that we are funded to continue the good work of this
committee into the 119th Congress. Our new budget will ensure
that the committee has the resources to develop a Surface
Transportation Reauthorization bill, work toward bipartisan
solutions to fix our environmental review and permitting
processes, reauthorize the Toxic Substances Control Act, and
continue our vital work on oversight and implementation of the
laws within the jurisdiction of the committee.
I urge my colleagues to support our committee rules and
budget resolution for the 119th. I would like to join my
Ranking M ember with welcoming our new member from Ohio,
Senator Husted. Welcome. We are happy to have you here.
With that, I will turn to the Ranking Member.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SHELDON WHITEHOUSE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND
Senator Whitehouse. We should also add our gratitude to
Senator Moran for his 2 weeks of diligent service to the
committee.
[Laughter.]
Senator Capito. Yes, he worked darned hard while he was
here.
Senator Whitehouse. During his time, he made a real
contribution.
First, I will thank Chair Capito for this business meeting
and for moving two bipartisan bills quickly out of committee. I
am particularly pleased to join the Chair in the STEWARD Act
which should help address our recycling needs. We are living
through a plastic pollution crisis. Every minute, a garbage
truck worth of plastic gets dumped into our oceans.
In my home State of Rhode Island, there are more than 16
trillion pieces of microplastic in just the top two inches of
the floor of Narraganset Bay. That is nearly 1,000 tons of
plastic. Microplastics and nano plastics have been turning up
in a lot of unwelcome places, like human blood, human hearts,
human brains, human lungs, breast milk, and the placentas of
pregnant women.
We are still learning how plastics affect human health. The
effects potentially include cancer, diabetes, heart disease,
reproductive disorders, and neurological impairment. Our
Country is handling disposal of plastic waste abysmally. A
National Academy study required by Save Our Seas 2.0, a bill
that Senator Sullivan and I led, found that the U.S. is the
world's biggest producer of plastic waste, yet the recycling
rate for plastics in the U.S. lies somewhere between 5 percent
and 9 percent. That blue bin is basically a fake.
In light of the vast scale of the plastic pollution crisis,
I want to stress that the STEWARD Act is just one step toward
solving a huge and complicated problem. There is a lot more we
need to do to improve recycling rates and reduce the amount of
plastic seeping into our bodies and fouling the environment.
I look forward to working with Chair Capito and other
members of the committee, particularly including Senator
Merkley and my long-time plastics counterpart, Senator
Sullivan, to continue work on this bill once it gets out of
committee before it gets to a vote on the floor.
I would be remiss not to make clear, given the moment that
we are in, that our ability to work together on future
legislation will be highly dependent on whether President Trump
and the executive branch respect the constitutional order and
statutory law, and end their illegal funding freeze and the
impoundment threats. The Appropriations Clause of the
Constitution is clear that Congress determines how much money
the government will spend, and for what purposes.
With respect to already-obligated funds, Federal law and
regulations require that those moneys be disbursed absent a
real showing of wrongdoing on the part of the recipient. As if
it weren't bad enough that this lawless administration is
usurping congressional authority, it now appears it is ignoring
the Judicial Branch as well. Not one, but two Federal courts
have ordered the administration to end this illegal freeze.
Yet, we are hearing across the Country of projects and programs
that remain frozen.
In Rhode Island, our State government reports that moneys
awarded to it under EPA's solar for All program remain frozen.
Our transit agencies have zero clarity about whether moneys
awarded under various grant programs will come through. It
appears that the administration has retreated behind a fog bank
of non-communication and non-response so that there is no
individual saying no who can be targeted with a court order
while the funding remains frozen. That is not a fair way to
treat courts and it is not the right way constitutionally to
behave.
In Massachusetts, grant money awarded under an EPA
Brownfields program, of all things, remains frozen. In New
Mexico, moneys awarded under EPA tribal grants to install
heating and air conditioning and prevent flooding at a school
are still frozen. These are but a few of many examples. I am
sure you have all heard examples from your States as well.
This is wrong and it is harming our constituents. Roads and
bridges will not be fixed, endangering public safety. Programs
to remove lead from drinking water and cleanup heavily polluted
communities will not move forward, endangering public health
and economic development. Renewable energy will not be
deployed, preventing improvements in air quality and ensuring
that our constituents remain vulnerable to price shocks from
volatile oil and gas markets.
This is also wrong because it represents a true breakdown
of our constitutional system of government. I have worked with
many of my Republican colleagues here on legislation. I have
worked with the Chair on nuclear and carbon capture bills. I
have worked with Senator Cramer on legislation to measure our
carbon advantage in manufacturing. I have worked with Senator
Wicker on anti-doping legislation. I have worked with Senator
Graham on legislation targeting corrupt oligarchs. As I
mentioned, I have worked with Senator Sullivan on plastics
legislation.
I am someone who wants to get things done, and I started
this Congress excited about the bipartisan legislative
possibilities for permitting, highways and transit, water
infrastructure, nuclear, carbon capture, geothermal and carbon
tariffs, to name just a few.
I do not say this lightly, and I believe I speak for my
side of the dais and indeed the whole Democratic Caucus when I
say that our appetite to move bipartisan legislation will
disappear if this funding freeze does not end and the
impoundment threats cease.
I appreciate very much that the Chair has publicly defended
Congress' power of the purse, and stated that obligated funds
should be disbursed. I further appreciate that she and her
staff have worked with me and my staff to find a path forward
on matters affecting my constituents.
I hope that all of us can agree that EPA and the other
agencies we oversee must provide us answers. That was the
opening question for Lee Zeldin as a matter of form in this
committee. Well, on Friday, all the members of the committee
wrote to Administrator Zeldin asking for answers about the
funding freeze. My staff has since followed up twice with no
response. We are waiting for answers; so are our constituents.
We and they deserve better.
We are also writing to try to get more information about
the effort to induce EPA employees to quit with an offer that
has neither statutory authority nor appropriated funds to back
it up. I think that is called fraud in the inducement.
There are Potemkin parliaments in autocratic regimes around
the world. The Russian Duma comes to mind as a classic example.
I think we can all agree that is an example to avoid.
This issue is bigger than Democrats versus Republicans. It
goes to the core operations of our constitutional republic. Let
us work together to end this illegal funding freeze and
preserve our constitutional order.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you, thanks to the Ranking Member.
I know that Senator Blunt Rochester wants to speak on the
Brownfields bill, but if she would hold while we go ahead and
take the votes, while we have critical mass here, that would be
appreciated.
We have a quorum now present. We are going to proceed to
the voting portion of the business meeting. I thank you for
that.
I will recognize any member who would like to speak after
the voting is complete.
The Ranking Member and I have agreed to consider the
committee rules package and the committee funding resolution en
bloc. We have also agreed to consider the Capito Substitute
Amendment to the committee funding resolution as adopted. The
substitute was just a minor typo change.
I move to approve the committee funding resolution as
amended by the substitute amendment, and the committee rules en
bloc. Is there a second?
Senator Whitehouse. Second.
Senator Capito. All those in favor, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator Capito. All those opposed, no.
[No audible response.]
Senator Capito. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have
it. The committee rules are approved and the committee funding
resolution will be favorably reported.
I note for the record that a quorum of the committee is
present at the time of this vote.
I will now call up S. 347, the Brownfields Reauthorization
Act of 2025.
[The text of S. 347 follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Capito. Does any Senator wish to be recognized to
offer an amendment?
Senator Markey. Madam Chair?
Senator Capito. Senator Markey.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Chair,
and I appreciate your efforts to move forward these bills.
Looking at the chaos in the executive branch caused by Elon
Musk and his unelected and unqualified minions who are running
amok in every one of the agencies tasked with executing the
laws passed by Congress and delivering services to our
constituents, I have to ask, what are we doing here?
Brownfields money was shut off unilaterally by the Trump
Administration last week. The hard-working men and women who
serve their communities by cleaning up toxic waste weren't sure
if they would get a paycheck. The communities counting on the
economic revival weren't sure if they would get stuck with
toxic legacies for more decades to come, and all because the
Trump Administration as managed under the thumb of the
unelected billionaire Elon Musk illegally stopped programs to
clean up our environment that were authorized and appropriated
by Congress on a bipartisan basis.
Yet, we are here, working diligently on behalf of all those
who elected us to office, to reauthorize and improve that
Brownfields program, knowing that this administration might
just decide to ignore the law again tomorrow.
It is more than just Brownfields. The Environmental
Protection Agency was forced to stop providing funding to
programs authorized and appropriated by Congress to get toxic
pollution like PFAS out of our drinking water, to fight air
pollution, to help schools buy newer, healthier school buses,
and to lower energy bills and make people's homes safer and
more comfortable places to live.
Judges across the Country have stepped in against the Trump
Administration's illegal funding cutoff, but the chaos
continues, the uncertainty continues. Frankly, our
constitutional crisis continues. Why are we working together,
collaboratively, across the aisle, for people in all 50 States,
to pass new laws if the Trump Administration is going to pick
and choose which laws it will follow? What is the point of
Congress which holds the power of the purse and all legislative
powers under Article One of the Constitution if our laws can be
ripped up on the whims of one single unelected billionaire?
I know my colleagues may not always agree with every law on
the books, and I know that you have voted against some of those
programs. I do not like all the laws we have on the books,
either. I do not think that means the Constitution does not
apply to the laws I do not like or you do not like.
That is why I offered Markey Number 1 as the amendment to
this bipartisan Brownfields Reauthorization. It simply states a
Sense of Congress that the President has to fully follow the
law and that funding can not be withheld once authorized and
appropriated by Congress. If we pass laws on behalf of the
American people, these laws should work on behalf of the
American people.
I appreciate that Chair Capito and Ranking Member
Whitehouse want the Environmental Protection Agency to
function. I do believe you do. We were able to get answers for
our Brownfields program in Massachusetts so they can now keep
operating, and thanks to our efforts, the court orders appear
to be now working in unlocking funding for other programs that
we passed in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the
Inflation Reduction Act. These are laws that came out of our
committee, to clean up the air, the water, the land, in our
communities.
We should not need a Sense of Congress in order for laws
passed by Congress to be executed by the President. I am not
calling this amendment up for a vote today, because the law
itself should be enough. If the Trump Administration continues
to illegally seize funding and unconstitutionally stop
operating programs to clean up our communities and stop
pollution, I simply do not see how we can let the committee
work as if we are in business usual going forward. I cannot
commit to that.
This is our first test: are we a nation of laws or not?
Will the administration accept the fact that this committee has
the ability to pass laws if they are signed by a President, any
President, that they are the law of the land, and that an
unelected billionaire cannot go in and arbitrarily select the
parts of that law that are going to be enforced?
This is our first test. We are a nation of laws. We must
pass that test before we can pass these bills. That is the
sense that I have of where we are historically, because this is
just one small subset of all of the laws that are on the books
to protect all of the people.
It is not for one unelected billionaire to say, we are
throwing entire agencies or entire sections of the law into a
woodchipper because he does not like it. If he has individual
objections, he should come. You have the majority; we should
have the hearings. Then we can vote on whether we want to wipe
out the Brownfields program or if we want to wipe out agency
after agency.
That is fraudulent. They should identify the fraud and then
bring it to us, and we will vote on it. Much of that fraud I
will vote with you to root out. Not if it is going to be futile
for us to act and then to wonder whether or not it will be
implemented.
That is the moment in history which we are at, this
committee is a part of that. My Sense of Congress resolution is
that these laws should be upheld is absolutely central to our
own common understanding of who we are and what we represent in
the system.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Markey. I understand you
have withdrawn your amendment; you are going to offer the
amendment as stated.
Senator Markey. That is correct.
Senator Capito. I appreciate that, and I think that is why
we are here, because the Brownfields program is important to
all of us, as it was unanimously last year. There is very
strong support.
My understanding, I think you alluded to this in your
remarks, is that EPA as of Tuesday evening, the Brownfields
program is not subject to the funding pause. I understand the
concerns going forward. Our staffs have spoken about this
issue. We have been working with you, I think for your
particular project, to make sure it can move forward
expeditiously.
I would also say in response to one of the comments the
Ranking Member made, I too heard Administrator Zeldin say, as a
former Member of Congress, repeatedly, that he would respond to
our letters, to our inquests, and to our requests for
information. We had a lot of frustration over the last 4 years
of all the unanswered inquiries that we had from our side of
the aisle to the previous Administrator.
I will be, in my next conversation with the Administrator,
he hasn't been sworn in yet, to make sure that he is much more
responsive in a timely fashion. I appreciate that.
With that, I am going to call up the Brownfields bill. I
move that the committee report the bill--oh, if there are any
other amendments? I do not think so.
Is there a second on the Brownfields bill?
Senator Whitehouse. Second.
Senator Capito. Wait a minute. Senator Sullivan, did you
have something?
Senator Sullivan. Madam Chair, I just wanted to----
Senator Capito. Sorry about that.
Senator Wicker. Madam Chair, the Chair deferred on hearing
Senator Blunt Rochester because there are other committees that
need members present. The sense of the Chair was that we would
vote and then hear debate.
Now, if we are going to have extended debate, we are going
to have to notify other committees that members will----
Senator Capito. Okay, understanding that----
Senator Wicker. I propose that we go ahead and hear your
motion.
Senator Capito. Okay, well, I called for amendments.
Senator Markey had an amendment that he was going to put up and
withdraw.
Senator Sullivan. Madam Chair, I will yield to my colleague
from Mississippi and I will talk about my amendments that I was
going to put forward but I will withdraw and talk about them
after the vote.
Senator Capito. Much appreciated.
We will move forward with it, thank you, Senator Wicker,
for bringing that forward. We will move forward with the
committee report. Is there a second?
Senator Whitehouse. Second.
Senator Capito. All those in favor, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator Capito. All those opposed, no.
[No audible response.]
Senator Capito. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have
it. The legislation is favorably reported.
I note for the record that a quorum of the committee is
present at the time of the vote.
Finally, I will call up S. 351, the Strategies to Eliminate
Waste and Accelerate Recycling Deployment Act of 2025.
[The text of S. 351 follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Capito. I am going to hold--I do not believe we
have any amendments, so I am going to----
Senator Merkley. I am going to offer an amendment and
withdraw it. This amendment deals with the topic and
specifically about reuse and refill.
Senator Capito. Could I just ask, interrupt just for a
second? We are under a time constraint here, obviously, from, I
think it is the Senator's committee, would you mind
withdrawing?
Senator Merkley. I am offering to withdraw it right now,
with the understanding that our teams have talked and that you
will work with me to pursue this piece of the puzzle.
Senator Capito. I will work with you to pursue this, yes.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
I move that the committee report the bill favorably. Is
there a second?
Senator Whitehouse. Second.
Senator Capito. All those in favor, say aye.
[Chorus of ayes.]
Senator Capito. All opposed, say no.
[No audible response.]
Senator Capito. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have
it. The legislation is favorably reported. I note for the
record that a quorum of the committee is present at the time of
the vote.
That concludes the voting portion of today's business
meeting. Would any Senator like to be recognized? I will
recognize Senator Blunt Rochester first.
Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to
thank my colleagues for working with us to pass this
legislation to reauthorize the EPA program that helps breathe
new life into communities across our Country.
As everyone here knows, the EPA Brownfields program
empowers States, communities, and stakeholders to work together
to address environmental contamination and repurpose land. When
a brownfield is cleaned up, the redevelopment of that property
brings new jobs and increased tax revenue.
A 2017 study concluded that cleaning up brownfields can
generate up to $97 million in additional tax revenue for local
governments. These are great benefits that help improve our
environment, our economy, our health and job opportunities. I
am proud to co-lead this bill with you, Senator Capito, as I
take on the work of our former Chairman, Senator Tom Carper. I
want to thank him for his leadership as well.
Today moves us a step closer to providing the needed
funding to communities to help them repurpose, reimagine, and
redevelop their neighborhoods. I would just say in closing that
it was important for me to be on this committee because my
State is the lowest mean elevation State in the Country. We
have challenges like others, we are urban, suburban, rural and
coastal.
One of the reasons why I really wanted to be on this
committee, having worked with you on WRDA, is because of the
bipartisan nature. I hope that this moment, which is an
inflection point for all of us, that the historic nature of
this committee continues to operate that way, in a bipartisan
fashion.
I am concerned about usurping the power of congress, and I
hope that we can stay unified in our efforts to make sure that
these programs that we fund, that we appropriate, that we
legislate, are actually implemented so that we can see the
benefits that I refer to in my statement.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Senator Capito. Thank you very much.
I now recognize Senator Sullivan.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to
briefly touch on the two amendments that I had, it was Sullivan
1 and Sullivan 2. I am hopeful we can move these in a
bipartisan way.
This, Madam Chair, relates to Alaska Native lands in
Alaska. The background is in 1971, Congress passed the biggest
land claim settlement probably in the history of the world for
Native people, 44 million acres of State and Federal land, that
is I think bigger than California, went to the Native people of
Alaska. They set up Alaska Native Corporations, they set up
regional corporations. They own this land in fee simple. It is
a very innovative program.
Unfortunately, a lot of the land that the Feds gave to the
Native people of Alaska was polluted. Very, very polluted. We
have legislated in this committee before, Senator Carper was a
co-sponsor of some of my legislation, it has been very
bipartisan. I am hoping that colleagues like Senator Whitehouse
can join me in my amendments because the amendments just
essentially make no sense.
The first amendment addresses a challenge, it is
complicated, but in terms of brownfield programs to have
cleanup on Alaska Native lands, Alaska Native Corporation lands
that the Federal Government gave to the Native people polluted,
it says, it does not include petroleum that pollutes those
lands. Why wouldn't it include petroleum? Remember, this is the
Federal Government that polluted the lands, nobody else.
We want an amendment that says, well, you can apply for
brownfield funds that would of course include cleaning up
petroleum sites that the Federal Government gave to the Native
people of Alaska polluted with petroleum. That is just, it
seems crazy that that is not in the law now. I would like to
try to fix that. I think it would get bipartisan support.
That was Sullivan 1. Sullivan 2 is even crazier, which
requires right now, fixing something crazy, which requires
right now in the law, before you can start a cleanup of these
contaminated lands in Alaska on Alaska Native lands, again,
polluted by the Federal Government, you have to start with a
NEPA process, a NEPA process to get permission to then go
cleanup contaminated lands.
I just think that is nuts, because it takes time, takes
money. Everybody knows these are contaminated lands because of
the Feds. We need a categorical exclusion saying, you do not
need to do a NEPA process to start the cleanup of polluted
lands for the Native people of my State.
Those are the two amendments. Very common sense. Senator
Carper and I have worked together previously. CERCLA, believe
it or not was going to under the law say to the Native people,
Defense gave you polluted lands, now you have to clean them up
under CERCLA and you have to pay for it. What? We fixed that in
this committee in a bipartisan way.
These are more common sense amendments that I am hoping we
can get passed that bring fairness to just what we are all
trying to do, is cleanup these polluted Native lands in my
State that were polluted by the Federal Government when they
gave the lands to the Native people of Alaska in the first
place. That is what we are trying to get done.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that and look forward
to working with both you and Senator Whitehorse on this.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. I, from my
standpoint, want to work with you to try to work through these
issues. It does sound very much common sense in my opinion. I
will say, serving on this committee with you as I have for
several years, I have learned so much about your history and
your State's history and the unique challenges, we all have
unique challenges in our States, but I would say you may have
the most unique challenges.
If we can keep working, thank you for being willing to keep
this last bill on track. We will help to address this
petroleum-contaminated site.
Senator Whitehouse. I look forward to working with my
friend, Senator Sullivan, as well on this. I think the concern
on our side is going to be make sure that if there is actual
liability for that pollution on the part of the fossil fuel
industry that they are paying an appropriate share to remedy
what they did.
If it is only the Federal Government that has caused this,
that is one thing. If the Federal Government had fee, was
polluted by the fossil industry, and then transferred it
without settling up with the fossil fuel industry for that
harm, they should not be able to walk away from any
accountability. I think that is the issue we will have to
address.
Senator Sullivan. Thank you both.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
With no further business, the committee stands adjourned. I
want to thank everyone. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:04 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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