[Senate Hearing 119-75, Part 5]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]







                                                 S. Hrg. 119-75, Pt. 5

                  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION 
 REQUEST FOR APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 AND THE FUTURE YEARS 
                            DEFENSE PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   ON

                                S. 2296

     TO AUTHORIZE APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 FOR MILITARY 
ACTIVITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, FOR MILITARY CONSTRUCTION, AND 
   FOR DEFENSE ACTIVITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, TO PRESCRIBE 
   MILITARY PERSONNEL STRENGTHS FOR SUCH FISCAL YEAR, AND FOR OTHER 
                                PURPOSES

                               ----------                              

                                 PART 5

                   EMERGING THREATS AND CAPABILITIES

                               ----------                              

                             APRIL 8, 2025




    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]




         Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services











































                                                  S. Hrg. 119-75, Pt. 5

                  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION 
 REQUEST FOR APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 AND THE FUTURE YEARS 
                            DEFENSE PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   ON

                                S. 2296

     TO AUTHORIZE APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 FOR MILITARY 
ACTIVITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, FOR MILITARY CONSTRUCTION, AND 
   FOR DEFENSE ACTIVITIES OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, TO PRESCRIBE 
   MILITARY PERSONNEL STRENGTHS FOR SUCH FISCAL YEAR, AND FOR OTHER 
                                PURPOSES

                               __________

                                 PART 5

                   EMERGING THREATS AND CAPABILITIES

                               __________

                             APRIL 8, 2025

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services






    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]






                 Available via: http://www.govinfo.gov

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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
                 
61-983 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2025  


















                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi, Chairman
                
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                JACK REED, Rhode Island
TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York             
JONI K. ERNST, Iowa                  RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut     
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii    
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           TIM KAINE, Virginia         
RICK SCOTT, Florida                  ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine   
TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts          
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma           GARY C. PETERS, Michigan       
TED BUDD, North Carolina             TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois      
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               JACKY ROSEN, Nevada   
JIM BANKS, Indiana                   MARK KELLY, Arizona    
TIM SHEEHY, Montana                  ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan                      
                                      
                        John P. Keast, Staff Director 
                     Elizabeth L. King, Minority Staff Director

                                   _______

           Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities

                       JONI K. ERNST, Iowa, Chairman
TOM COTTON, Arkansas                   ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan
MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota              JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire           
KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota             KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York          
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma             TIM KAINE, Virginia          
TED BUDD, North Carolina               GARY C. PETERS, Michigan       
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri                 JACKY ROSEN, Nevada      
TIM SHEEHY, Montana                    MARK KELLY, Arizona            
                                     
                                     

                                  (ii)






















                            C O N T E N T S

                                 _______ 
                                 
                             April 8, 2025

                                                                   Page

United States Special Operations Command.........................     1

                           Members Statements

Statement of Senator Joni K. Ernst...............................     1

Statement of Senator Elissa Slotkin..............................     2

                           Witness Statements

Jenkins, Colby C., Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense,             3
  Performing the Duties of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for 
  Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict.

Fenton, General Bryan P., USA Commander, United States Special        4
  Operations Command.

Questions for the Record.........................................    38

                                 (iii)

 
                  DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION 
 REQUEST FOR APPROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026 AND THE FUTURE YEARS 
                            DEFENSE PROGRAM

                              ----------                              


                         TUESDAY, APRIL 8, 2025

                          United States Senate,    
                   Subcommittee on Emerging
                          Threats and Capabilities,
                               Committee on Armed Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

                UNITED STATES SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:36 p.m. in room 
SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Joni Ernst 
(Chairwoman of the Committee) presiding.
    Committee Members present: Senators Ernst, Wicker, Budd, 
Sheehy, Reed, Slotkin, Shaheen, Rosen, and Kelly.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JONI K. ERNST

    Senator Ernst. The Emerging Threats and Capabilities 
Subcommittee meets today to review the posture of our Special 
Operations Enterprise. Thank you to our witnesses for appearing 
before the subcommittee today. I want to take a moment to 
welcome Senator Slotkin as the Subcommittee's new Ranking 
Member. I look forward to working closely together.
    For the Members' information, today's hearing will begin in 
open session, and then transition to a closed session in SVC-
217 in the Office of Senate Security, no later than 3:45 p.m. 
For years, I have worked closely with our Special Operations 
Forces (SOF) community to ensure they have the resources to 
counter evolving threats. SOF is more than a counter-terrorism 
force. They are indispensable in countering the malign 
activities of the Chinese Communist Party, Russia, and their 
authoritarian allies.
    Special Operations Command (SOCOM) is operated under 
stagnant budgets. The limitation of SOF and strength was a very 
shortsighted decision at a time when SOF capabilities are 
needed, more than ever. We must change course now. That is why 
I intend to work with the Department of Defense (DOD) to 
rebuild SOCOMs budget. Given SOF's critical role in national 
security, this is a wise and cost-effective investment.
    Additionally, we must update DOD policies and authorities 
to leverage SOF capabilities fully. Irregular warfare has been 
a core SOF mission since World War II, yet unnecessary 
restrictions have hampered their flexibility. We need to 
empower our combatant commanders to unleash SOF's full 
potential. President Trump, Secretary Hegseth, and our 
witnesses today recognize the urgency of these threats and the 
vital role SOF plays.
    As Chair of this Subcommittee, I will prioritize these key 
forces, which are essential for this era of great power 
competition and for ensuring the security of the American 
people. This is not just about defense and deterrence. It's 
about ensuring the U.S. remains the preeminent global force. We 
have no time to waste.
    Now, I would like to recognize Senator Slotkin for her 
opening comments.

              STATEMENT OF SENATOR ELISSA SLOTKIN

    Senator Slotkin. Thank you, Chairwoman Ernst. Important 
hearing on readiness, but importantly, happy to be here with 
you in our first official hearing on Emerging Threats and 
Capabilities Subcommittee of the 119th, my first time Ranking 
Member in the Senate, so, I'm happy to be here and I look 
forward to maintaining a really strong, robust bipartisan 
approach.
    I think we want the same things, which is to make sure that 
our Special Operations Forces have the resources, the 
potential, the acquisition, everything you need to deal with a 
world of really changing fast changing threats and challenges. 
Welcome to our guests. We're happy to have you here. I think we 
want to express our appreciation for everything you do every 
day particularly in guiding the Special Operations Forces, 
given that, as you were describing to us earlier, the 
precipitous increase in the missions you are being asked to do. 
I think that we are keenly aware of that.
    Obviously, the gray zone challenges in places like China, 
Russia, Iran, North Korea, and enabling the joint force, but I 
think in particular, I think it's hard to have this 
conversation without thinking about Taiwan and sort of the 
scenarios we have going forward with Taiwan and the important 
role you all will play. Space, cyber, information operations, 
you all are at the forefront of a very changing world on 
conflict. Conflict is just going to look different and continue 
to look different than it was when many of us were starting 
out.
    We want you to have those resources and therefore I will 
just flag, I'm very interested in what's going on right now and 
the cuts that are potentially on the table at the Defense 
Department. We've heard rumors of 80,000, 90,000 forces, for 
instance, from the Army being cut. I don't think anyone is 
against cutting actual fat on the bone, but being surgical and 
smart about it and not cutting the very operators that we need 
to perform this ever-expanding group of missions, you're being 
asked to do.
    So, with that Madam Chairman, I yield back.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you. I'd like to thank Senate Armed 
Services Committee (SASC) Ranking Member, Senator Reed for 
being here today. Senator Reed, do you have any opening 
comments or thoughts?
    Senator Reed. I just want to commend you Madam Chairman and 
the Ranking Member. I have great confidence.
    Senator Ernst. Okay. Thank you. We will go ahead and 
proceed to your opening statements, and Mr. Jenkins, we will 
start with you and then we will proceed to General Fenton. So, 
gentlemen, you each have 5 minutes for your opening statements.

 STATEMENT OF COLBY C. JENKINS, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
 DEFENSE, PERFORMING THE DUTIES OF THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
   DEFENSE FOR SPECIAL OPERATIONS AND LOW-INTENSITY CONFLICT

    Mr. Jenkins. Thank you. Madam Chair Ernst, Ranking Member 
Slotkin, Chairman Wicker when he comes, Ranking Member Reed, 
and other distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you 
for the opportunity to testify on the global posture of our 
Nation's Special Operations Forces, or SOF. I'm honored to 
testify alongside General Fenton. We are joined here today by 
two extraordinary Americans, who I would like to take a moment 
to recognize.
    Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense (SECDEF) 
and Director of the Special Operations Secretariat, Dr. Sandra 
Hobson, seated behind me, as well as Secretary of Defense for 
Special Operations and Low-Intense Conflict (SO/LIC) Senior 
Enlisted Advisor, Command Master Chief Brad Rhinelander, also 
seated behind me. These dedicated servant leaders bring 
expertise and insights that have been invaluable as we advocate 
within the Department of Defense, on behalf of our SOF 
servicemembers and their families. As a combat veteran Green 
Beret myself, the opportunity to work with these incredible 
teammates and represent our SOF enterprise is profoundly 
humbling and special.
    Today's global security environment has become increasingly 
complex, as artificial intelligence (AI) and other 
technological advancements rapidly transform the character of 
warfare, threats from State and non-State actors continue to 
converge. Our global competitors actively seek to undermine the 
United States and our allies. Terrorists and transnational 
criminal networks continue to pose a serious threat to the 
Homeland.
    In these turbulent times, my office, the Office of Special 
Operations, Low Intensity Conflict or SO/LIC, and the U.S. 
Special Operations Command remain at the forefront of our 
Nation's strategic priorities, representing less than 2 percent 
of the defense budget. Our Special Operations Forces provide 
unique and outsized effects, adding exceptional value to the 
Nation. Tasked with the most challenging and dangerous 
missions, SOF remain the world's most lethal, adaptable, and 
capable force.
    Our priorities for the SOF enterprise are squarely nested 
within Secretary Hegseth's priorities for the joint force, 
defend the Homeland, strengthen deterrence, and increase burden 
sharing with U.S. allies and partners. Our elite warriors deter 
our adversaries by creating strategic asymmetric advantages and 
maintaining irregular warfare superiority.
    Leveraging our close relationships with our foreign 
partners in critical regions, SOF are uniquely positioned to 
identify and counter our adversary's malign and coercive 
activities. Whether in the Indo-Pacific, Europe, the Middle 
East, Africa, Western Hemisphere, or near our own southern 
border, these low-cost, small-footprint efforts promote 
stability, empower partners and allies, and lead efforts 
against China, terrorists, drug traffickers, and other threats.
    Even with the global increase in demand, our Special 
Operations Forces face personnel cuts and resource constraints. 
In fact, armed conflict and regional instability have driven a 
200 percent increase in our crisis response mission over the 
past 3 years. While at the same time, operational and logistics 
costs for crisis response have increased 260 percent.
    We must ensure SOFs readiness while balancing operational 
demands and optimizing available resources. We must also 
promote accountability through rigorous analytics and data-
driven decisionmaking. Congress wisely established civilian 
oversight of Special Operations to ensure that SOF remains 
strategically aligned, ethically grounded, and accountable. My 
office provides policy direction, resource advocacy, and 
oversight needed to ensure that SOFs initiatives and efforts 
stay focused on war fighter needs and national objectives, 
without mission creep or undue strain on the force.
    This oversight is not bureaucratic. In fact, it is 
essential to effective war fighting. Our Nation's security 
depends on a strong, agile, modernized, and accountable SOF 
enterprise. With your support, we will continue ensuring that 
SOF is ready to deter, fight, and win anytime, anywhere. Thank 
you again for the opportunity to testify. I invite you to visit 
our SOF community around the globe, to meet our servicemembers 
and their families, and to see firsthand the capabilities that 
we bring in defense of the Nation. Your continued support is 
critical. I look forward to answering your questions.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Jenkins. General Fenton, you 
are now recognized for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENT OF GENERAL BRYAN P. FENTON, USA COMMANDER, UNITED 
               STATES SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND

    General Fenton. Madam Chair Ernst, Ranking Member Slotkin, 
distinguished Members of this Subcommittee, Chairman Wicker 
when he comes, Ranking Member Reed, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before you today.
    This month marks 38 years since the creation of Special 
Operations Command. We are thankful for Congress's incredible 
foresight in creating us and steadfast support ever since. I'm 
joined today by Command Sergeant Major Shane Shorter. Shane 
exemplifies the unmatched caliber of our non-commissioned 
officer corps. If you look at the hardest problems facing our 
Nation in the darkest corners of this earth, you will find our 
Special Operations non-commissioned officers solving them.
    Our Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs) exemplify the 
precision, lethality of your Special Operations teams and 
demonstrate our competitive and comparative advantage. They are 
the reason we are envied by militaries around the globe. It's 
the honor of a lifetime for Shane and me to represent the 
uniform and civilian members of your Special Operations 
Command, as well as our U.S. Interagency Partners and the 
Global SOF Warriors from 28 nations who are stationed at our 
SOCOM headquarters in Tampa.
    I'm also honored today to testify alongside Secretary 
Jenkins from Assistant Secretary of Defense (ASD) SO/LIC. We 
rely on SO/LIC 's partnership, support, and advocacy to ensure 
your Special Operations warriors and their families who serve 
alongside them continue to thrive and win. We are in an era of 
serious national security challenges. The border, communist 
China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and terrorist organizations 
all pose significant threats in isolation.
    However, we're increasingly seeing these threats converge 
across the globe. Meanwhile, the changing character of war is 
changing at a rate faster than we've ever seen. The innovation 
cycle now turns in days and weeks, not months and years. Our 
adversaries use $10,000 one-way drones that we shoot down with 
$2 million missiles. That cost benefit curve is upside down.
    To summarize, this is the most complex, asymmetric, and 
hybrid threat security environment I've seen in 38 years of 
service. Contending with these challenges demands more from 
your Special Operations Forces that requires tough choices, 
forcing tradeoffs as we strike to balance an increase in 
operations readiness and the need for modernization.
    Your elite SOCOM team provides an outsized return on any 
investment. However, with only 3 percent of DODs forces and 
less than 2 percent of DODs budget, we are now playing a zero-
sum game. Yet I'd submit your Special Operations Forces were 
tailor made for this era, rapidly responding to crisis, 
disrupting terrorist organizations, and asymmetrically 
deterring our adversaries.
    Employed expressly at the direction of the President and 
Secretary of Defense, SOCOM's Crisis Response Mission is the 
Nation's most lethal and surgical tool to eliminate threats to 
the Homeland, rescue American citizens, protect our diplomats, 
all at a moment's notice. In the past 3\1/2\ years, the 
frequency of these Presidentially directed missions 
significantly increased by 200 percent. Yet for this sacred 
obligation, we'll accept no risk in today's crisis response 
mission.
    Some may think we're done fighting terror. I'd submit 
terror is not done with us. SOCOM's mission to degrade 
terrorist groups starts at our border, spans the globe. In 
recent months, your Special Operations team eliminated over 500 
terrorists who had the intent and capability to strike the 
Homeland. Alongside our global Special Operations partners, 
we've captured over 600. Aligned with the Department's 
priorities, deterrence has long been a part of SOCOM's DNA.
    We are America's irregular warfare experts. We deter war by 
altering our adversaries' decision below the threshold of 
conflict in the gray zone. We stand ready to prevail if 
deterrence fails, as combatant commands seek to strengthen, 
deterrence requests for SOCOM capabilities have increased by 
more than 35 percent in the last 2 years alone. Against that 
backdrop, we continue to grapple with years of flat budgets, a 
14 percent decrease in buying power, significant personnel 
reductions, and the requirement to evolve our technology and 
authorities.
    All this forces tradeoffs, tough choices that challenge 
current missions and puts modernization at risk. Yet SOCOM 
remains the world's premier Special Operations Force. I pledge 
to always provide the Nation with the best Special Operations 
capability for the fiscal and personnel resources we receive. 
We will never compromise on standards and lethality. We are 
grateful for this Subcommittee's work on novel approaches to 
SOF funding and authorities.
    I look forward to taking your questions. Thank you.
    [The joint prepared statement Mr. Colby C. Jenkins and 
General Bryan P. Fenton follows:]
      
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    
      
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, General Fenton, and we will start 
now with the senators' questions. I'll start with 5 minutes of 
questions and go on to the Ranking Member. If we have other 
Members join, we will have them ask questions as well. If we 
don't have other Members join, we will recess briefly and move 
to the closed hearing. So, this may be a very speedy round but 
I will go ahead and start.
    General Fenton, so you mentioned the personnel reductions 
in force, and since the announcement of SOF personnel cuts 
under the previous Administration, I have been very firmly and 
vocally opposed to that. The return on investment our Nation 
gets from our Special Operations Forces is not only measurable, 
it is absolutely unmatched. Despite those reductions, SOF 
continues to do what it does best, it's adapting, innovating, 
and overcoming.
    General Fenton, can you speak to how SOF is adapting its 
training pipelines to enable future operators to integrate high 
tech capabilities like AI, cyber, and electronic warfare more 
effectively?
    General Fenton. Senator, I can. I would start by saying I 
think you know you're your SOF very well, in terms of that we 
innovate and I like to think we innovate for today and we 
modernize for tomorrow. As we think about tomorrow, that's 
certainly through the lens of the lessons learned that we're 
watching vis-a-vis the events in Ukraine. I think it's more 
important to not just observe those lessons, but as you laid 
out, institutionalize them.
    I think in the instance of institutionalization of those 
lessons I would offer U.S. Army Special Operations, ARSOF, has 
undergone two, what I think are pretty significant efforts 
against this change of character of war. First, is they've 
created a brand-new course, the remote Uncrewed Systems 
Integration Course down at Fort Bragg, a course that is about a 
6-week program of instruction, bringing together everything 
from learning how to build the drone, fly drones, and then 
certainly adapt them as we have seen on the battlefield.
    The second thing they've done, I would characterize in 
terms of institutionalizing, is they've created a brand-new 
Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) or job title. That job 
title is remote systems integrator, and they've created that 
around the backdrop of a Special Forces warrant officer, a 
Green Beret warrant officer, and after their training is 
complete a multi-month program of instruction, they'll go back 
to the Special Forces groups and start to really take that as a 
master trainer and weave it into all group training.
    You would see that across many of our components. But I 
think, Senator, those are a couple of examples I'd want to give 
you.
    Senator Ernst. No, that's great, and I think many of us 
recognize there's nothing more dangerous than a warrant 
officer. So, appreciate that new MOS. So, let's talk a little 
bit more about those cuts. A critical strength of SOF is their 
ability to lead on emerging technologies and developing those 
capabilities that kind of ripple across the broader force, and 
it speaks directly to the indispensable role that they play in 
today's complex threat environment.
    So, any additional reductions that we might see in SOF 
wouldn't just impact our SOF, they would degrade our ability to 
project power around the globe. So, General Fenton, from an 
operational perspective, how would further force reductions 
impact SOF's ability to respond to emerging threats in regions 
like Indo-Pacific Command (INDOPACOM), Europe, and of course 
the Middle East?
    General Fenton. Well, Senator, I would offer right out the 
gate that that would absolutely hurt. It would hurt fairly 
significantly, especially against the backdrop of, I think over 
the last 3, 3\1/2\ years, we've seen a 5,000-person teammate 
reduction inside of SOCOM already. That's against the backdrop 
of communications, logistics, intelligence, civil affairs, and 
sci-ops, and of course operators. I think all those are the 
type of capabilities that you see combatant commanders, as I 
mentioned in my opening statement, asking for more and more to 
the tune of about 35 percent. I think that would absolutely 
impact that. We're already forced to make tough choices and 
tradeoffs. Those would certainly make those would amplify those 
tough choices and tradeoffs and really put us in a place where 
I've mentioned earlier in the statement, we're already at a 
zero-sum game.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, and just in the time that I have 
remaining, can you please characterize the situation that 
unfolds when we have SOF teams that are out on the ground as 
force multipliers? One example that I'm thinking about this is 
many years ago in Africa when we had Special Forces Operational 
Detachment Alphas (ODAs) there, we were able to bring together 
many different nations. Those nations had teams on the ground 
as well, but they could not get along with the populations that 
exist in some of those regions.
    It took Americans and the leadership that these teams 
brought into Africa to bring all of these nationalities 
together into a collaborative force. Can you speak to how SOF 
really can provide that leadership in small teams, small 
numbers without a huge footprint and be able to bring different 
nations together?
    General Fenton. I can, Senator. Small teams, small 
footprints, big impact, is the way I like to think about it. I 
think that starts with the fact that in our DNA is partnering, 
and SOF is known as a premier partner force. That's what we do 
across the globe and maybe even today to the tune of about 
7,000 folks in about 80 different countries. It's all about 
beginning partnerships, and those partnerships then evolve into 
trust.
    Once you get trust, then we're able to do everything, build 
partner capacity, develop some level of competency and 
capability. I think it just goes on from there, and even do 
exactly as you just described, bring folks together who 
otherwise may not be together. I think at the end of the day, 
amplify capability and capacity for any combatant commander or 
for the Secretary of Defense.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, General Fenton. Ranking Member 
Slotkin.
    Senator Slotkin. Thank you. The Senator had very similar 
questions to the ones I had about what are the tradeoffs of 
these cuts, right? For me, it's hard to miss that Space Force 
got excluded from having to take cuts. I'm happy for them, 
that's a mission that's extremely important, but just would 
hope that if there's someone who's picking and choosing 
missions that are going to be cut versus protected, that I know 
you're advocating, but that sort of, we realize that the units 
that are in highest demand should not be taking the same 
haircut as everybody else across the force. So, hope that 
that's happening. Thank you for illustrating some of those 
tradeoffs that you would have.
    I do want to, you know, understand what missions you have 
been tasked to do in recent months. I am, as someone who was a 
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer and a Middle East 
specialist and did three tours in Iraq, I am 100 percent with 
you that just because you don't hear about threats in the news 
every day doesn't mean that they're not still out there 
plotting to kill Americans, attack the Homeland and do really 
devastating things. We of course have nation states that are 
causing all kinds of problems.
    But I did see that the President designated Mexican 
cartels, a number of named cartels, as foreign terrorist 
organizations restricting in a positive way American citizens 
from providing support, materiel, leadership in any way to 
those organizations. Can you describe what, if any, guidance 
you've been getting and giving on lethal force against cartels 
on the southern border, given the buildup of about 10,000 U.S. 
Forces down there?
    General Fenton. Thank you. I can begin with that and then 
we can talk the details. The designation of foreign terrorist 
organization does not grant us any new authorities as a DOD 
entity is. What it really does is it helps us unlock the doors 
to whole-of-government approach. Our threat finance analysts 
can now better provide their target packets to our counterparts 
in the whole-of-government approach. But what we are doing now 
is making sure that we provide options that we can be ready, 
lethal, and prepared should the President need us to continue 
to seal and protect the border.
    To answer your question directly, it does not grant us any 
new authorities to take direct action or so forth.
    Senator Slotkin. So, you would need commander-in-chief 
authority to go, for instance, and pursue drone attacks inside 
Mexico against cartels? I'm just asking, Mr. Musk said publicly 
that that foreign terrorist designation authorizes drone 
strikes against Mexican cartels inside Mexico. I'm just trying 
to understand fact from fiction here.
    Do you believe you have that authority today? Understanding 
the designation alone may not give it to you, do you believe 
you have the authority today to cross over the Mexican border 
and use drone strikes to go after cartels?
    General Fenton. No, ma'am. The designation of Foreign 
Terrorist Organizations (FTO) does not grant us any new 
authorities.
    Senator Slotkin. But separate from the FTO designation, do 
you, as the service secretary believe you have that? I'm just 
trying to understand. I'm not----
    General Fenton. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Slotkin. I have no problem with them being 
designated. I have no problem going against them and their 
financing, right, their materiel. But I think certainly as part 
of this Committee, we want to understand use of lethal force in 
a neighboring State.
    So, is there in any way separate from FTO designation, do 
you currently have the authority to shoot down, shoot at 
Mexican cartels over the border right now?
    General Fenton. No, ma'am. I do not.
    Senator Slotkin. Okay. Thank you for clarifying, and then 
you know, I think a lot of us on the Committee are very worried 
about Taiwan and a potential problem with China over the next 
few years. I'm the co-chair of the Taiwan caucus, so we think 
about this a lot.
    Can you give me your best assessment of, you know, what our 
security assistance activities there, our training, maybe we 
have to go into classified session, but would appreciate you 
know, your role and deterrence understanding the role you're 
playing in that issue.
    General Fenton. Senator, we'll absolutely have to go into a 
closed session to provide details. What I would offer is that, 
in support of INDOPACOM, you would see your Special Operations 
Forces doing many of the missions you described earlier. 
Certainly, always being prepared for crisis response inside 
that area of responsibility (AOR) through our theater, Special 
Operations Command, Special Ops Command Pacific, that is a 
sacred obligation.
    I think you would also see us in a counter-terrorism way 
making sure that any counter-terrorism (CT) threats, in this 
case, ISIS East Asia, we're doing in a partnered way with 
teammates in that region. Then I think you would see us 
certainly in deterrence. The way we present ourselves is 
placement and access. It builds relationships and partnerships 
and capability and all that I think is very valuable to Sam 
Paparo, and any Combatant Command (COCOM) commander because it 
provides options and opportunities they wouldn't otherwise 
have, and dilemmas and challenges to the adversary.
    Senator Slotkin. Thank you. I yield back.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, and next we will go to Senator 
Budd. Thank you.
    Senator Budd. Thank you, Chairman. Again, thank you all for 
being here. General Fenton and Mr. Jenkins, thank you both for 
testifying before the committee on SOF. I was grateful for the 
opportunity to travel with Chairman Wicker last year to Joint 
Special Operations Command (JSOC) at Fort Bragg and to talk 
about the important work that SOF is doing not only in North 
Carolina, but around the world.
    General Fenton, how would you characterize the demand and 
requirements for Special Operations Forces particularly in 
crisis response, General Fenton?
    General Fenton. Senator first, thanks for visiting our 
forces and thanks for allowing us to be in the great State of 
North Carolina.
    Senator Budd. Our honor.
    General Fenton. Appreciate all the hospitality there. I 
know all our forces do. I would offer in my opening statement; 
I laid out a couple.
    I think in terms of crisis response, we have seen a pace 
and a scale and duration that I frankly have not seen in my 20 
to 30 years in the Special Operations community. It is called 
on more. So, there's a requirement that's gone up by 200 
percent in the last 3\1/2\ years. That's on or about 15 
missions where we've been asked to get out very quickly and do 
the type of missions that I mentioned, either recover 
diplomats, protect an embassy at some point, maybe even recover 
a U.S. citizen. I think I don't anticipate the world to get any 
less volatile, and that looks like a pattern to me, and so, I 
think that demand has certainly gone up.
    In deterrence, the combatant commanders have asked for 
Special Operations in the last 2 years at an increase of about 
35 percent to do the type of missions that they're looking for 
us to do. That could involve anything from partner-based 
training to unilateral operations that would give them 
additional opportunities and advantages, maybe an unfair 
outsize advantage and give the adversaries a bunch of dilemmas 
and challenges. So, I think I anticipate that going up.
    Then I just mentioned earlier, terrorism is not done with 
us, and I think we absolutely have to stay focused on the 
threat that ISIS, al Qaeda, and Al-Shabaab pose and all three 
of those missions are absolutely in SOF wheelhouse.
    Senator Budd. General, talk a little bit about, you gave 
some numbers, 35 percent increase in area, 200 percent in 
another area. When you're called upon, how often do you have to 
say no because of that increased demand and perhaps the lack of 
readiness or rest or requirements that are needed?
    General Fenton. Senator, I think that that question is at 
the heart of something the Command Sergeant Major and I think 
about every day, that's risk. I think in this case that risk is 
a combination of operational risk: do we have the capability 
and the capacity? Then for the first time, certainly in my 
memory, fiscal constraint risk: can we actually do it?
    I think that drives to the heart of I've had to say no in 
some instances in deterrence, where I feel like I am taking 
risk almost 41 times in the last year, to combatant commanders 
that would want Special Forces operational detachments, so 12 
Green Berets, folks who may want command and control nodes. I 
could go on and on.
    I can give you additional examples in closed session, but I 
think it's certainly way too often, and my sense is that, 
first, that is risk. We're not meeting the combatant command, 
DURs demands in a special ops peculiar way. I'm also taking 
risk in modernization, and in a sense, I feel like I'm saying 
no to the SOCOM enterprise when we don't have the top line 
increase and the budget needed to modernize not only 
technology, but certainly our humans.
    So, we think about education for an uncertain world, that's 
modernization, and on top of that, certainly even our 
authorities. So, I think I say no way too much. Then those two 
categories to combatant commanders in deterrence, and frankly, 
to where we need to be as a SOCOM enterprise to win tomorrow, 
just like we've been winning today and in the past years.
    Senator Budd. Thank you for that, and lots of other 
questions, either for the record or the closed session.
    Senator Budd. Mr. Jenkins, again, thank you for being here. 
See if you're tracking this provision in the Senate Fiscal Year 
2026 NDAA includes a provision requiring the Assistant 
Secretary of Defense for SO/LIC and the Commander of Special 
Operations to ensure the annual defense planning guidance 
includes specific guidance for requirements and employments 
Special Operation Forces across the spectrum of conflict. Are 
you tracking that, sir, and care to elaborate?
    Mr. Jenkins. Yes, sir. Yes, and thank you for that very 
much. So, with our Interim National Defense Strategic Guidance, 
we have three lines of effort, defend the Homeland, deter 
China, and increased burden sharing. The only force that can 
fill in or blend across all three lines of effort there is the 
Special Operations Force.
    In my service like capacity, I've been able to advocate and 
make sure that as the defense planning guidance goes forward 
and now gets underway in earnest, that my peers, my 
counterparts, ensure that SOF is adequately and thoroughly 
accounted for in all three lines of effort there, and not just 
as an asterisk, that we play a major part.
    Senator Budd. [Presiding.] Thank you both again. It appears 
I'm out of time. Chairman Reed, you're recognized.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Senator Budd. Gentlemen, 
thank you for your service and your sacrifice and that of your 
family. I endorse your tribute to the non-commissioned 
officers, General Fenton.
    General Fenton. Yes.
    Senator Reed. I would be in Fort Leavenworth not the 
military side, the other side without my NCO, so thank you.
    General Fenton. I think we all would, Senator.
    Senator Reed. Yes, sir. Mr. Jenkins, SO/LIC is a work in 
progress, and I think we're making great progress. We want, as 
we envision a service secretary like civilian overlooking those 
Special Operations. I would note in the prepared partial 
statement for today, it says, ``SO/LIC requires the requisite 
tools, workforce, and resources to accelerate the 
implementation of these priorities and enable Special 
Operations to be the most effective disciplined and 
strategically relevant force it can be.''
    Could you tell us what additional tool, workforce, and 
resources you need?
    Mr. Jenkins. First, thank you and thank you to Congress for 
having the vision and foresight to make sure that SO/LIC 
exists, that we do have the tools that we do have right now. 
I'd just like to point out, thanks to section 922 and 
Congress's vision, you can see the physical manifestation back 
here with Dr. Sandra Hobson, who's the first to sit in that 
position, that 922 facilitated. So, we are underway in 
establishing the service secretary side of Special Operations, 
and that's thanks to Congress. So, we welcome your continued 
engagement and reinforcement.
    In terms of additional authorities or funding that we would 
need, we certainly welcome that, your continued engagement. One 
area that comes to mind, is in the realm of talent management. 
We want to make sure that SOF officers and enlisted leaders, 
that we have the ability as SOF enterprise leaders to advocate 
for their advancement, just like our service counterparts would 
for theirs as well. As a Green Beret, I come from the Army, but 
I'm also a SOF officer, and so, we want to make sure that we 
have that.
    Then in terms of acquisition authorities we welcome 
additional discussion on how we can have more agile, more 
abundant acquisition authorities so that we can answer the need 
of those quick problems that we encounter out on the 
battlefield and be able to innovate and modernize and fund 
those accordingly.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much. General Fenton, from 
your perspective, have you seen the benefits of this empowered 
senior civilian like secretary?
    General Fenton. Senator, absolutely. I think this will be 
my third time at this table saying how critical it is, how much 
we appreciate the work this Congress has done in that arena. I 
think the first thing I offered you before, and maybe even 
yesterday, and thank you for the office call, was that having 
Secretary Jenkins at the Service Secretary table, along with 
the Secretary of Defense representing Special Operations and 
SOCOM issues, is critical.
    I think about that on the service side of the SOCOM 
organization. Also advocating for issues that support our 
servicemembers, our civilians, and our family members, and 
those run the gamut. Certainly, the human performance program, 
preservation of the force and family, and many other items that 
we have inside of our enterprise. I would also offer in terms 
of thinking through modernization and certainly transformation. 
So, I think there's a great deal that we've been able to 
achieve together as a team of teams in the SOF enterprise.
    Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, and after some 
notable civilian casualty several years ago, the Department of 
Defense set up the Civilian Harm Center of Excellence. In the 
last year's prepared statement submitted, it pointed out that 
these policies and procedures outlined by the Department 
through the center assist with counter violent extremist 
organizations efforts as they prevent the underlying dynamics 
from creating more extremism.
    I think in layman terms, it means if you're out there and 
you're hurting a lot of civilians, the reaction is the enemy 
gets more recruits, essentially. But I've heard public 
indications that the Department is considering to rescind the 
policy guidance and to eliminate the center of excellence. Mr. 
Jenkins, what's your understanding of that?
    Mr. Jenkins. Well, first, Senator, thank you for pointing 
that out. We agree that the ability and requirement to mitigate 
and limit civilian harm on the battlefield is paramount 
responsibility for us. Second, it's the law. It's the law, and 
so, we have to be respondent to that.
    I can also say there have been no decisions made on what 
the program may be called or the form that it will take. But 
the requirement and the need to report back and make sure that 
we are always mitigating civilian harm will always be present 
no matter what it's called or how it looks, Senator.
    Senator Reed. Again, let me add to the point. It's not only 
the law and the sense of humanity, it's also a very practical 
situation because by antagonizing the population, you'll lose 
ground.
    Mr. Jenkins. Yes, sir.
    Senator Reed. Once you lose it, you don't gain it. Just 
General, final question. Can you say if SOCOM has received 
adequate support from the center and that it's been an asset to 
your operations?
    General Fenton. Senator, I'm not--from the center?
    Senator Reed. From the center.
    General Fenton. Senator, I think certainly. As we've 
thought through it, I go back to Secretary Jenkins piece, we 
absolutely, as your SOCOM team always aim to do the mission, 
especially in the kinetic ops that you're referring to, and 
then protect non-combatants and civilians as part of who we are 
and what we stand for. I think to your point, that sends a very 
powerful message across the globe that we're there to eliminate 
or disrupt a bad actor, yet at the same time protect innocence 
and vulnerable and non-combatants. That's a very different 
signal from a nation. That's what your SOCOM team works to do 
everyday.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much. Madam Chairman, thank 
you.
    Senator Ernst. [Presiding.] Thank you, Ranking Member. 
We'll recognize now Senator Kelly for 5 minutes of questions.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair. General Fenton, in 
your opening statement, you highlighted your flat budget since 
2019, which appears to be a 14 percent decrease in purchasing 
power, and SOCOM has also faced some significant personnel cuts 
over the past years. Is it fair to say right now that the 
demand for Special Operations Forces continues to increase? Is 
that a fair observation?
    General Fenton. Senator, that's absolutely a fair 
characterization, as I've laid out in the opening statement.
    Senator Kelly. With this flat budget then, where have you 
assumed any additional risk because of budgetary and personnel 
constraints?
    General Fenton. Senator, I'd actually offer two places. In 
the operational arena, we've assumed risk in deterrence, as I 
mentioned in the opening statement, I'll assume no risk in 
crisis response today. That is a sacred obligation, and as we 
go across the spectrum in deterrence, as I've laid out, there 
have been instances where I've had to say no to combatant 
commander requirements because of operational risk and fiscal 
constraints in a way I haven't seen before.
    So, first in operations deterrence. Second is in 
modernization. Working to have the SOCOM team and at times 
tying it to the joint force, for sure. Be able to win in the 
future environment like we have won for years and years and 
years in an increasingly contested and congested environment. 
We're taking risks there. The inability to get after the things 
I think that are asymmetric, that are part of the changing 
character of war, do it at speed.
    You could add anything, uncrewed artificial intelligence, 
additive manufacturing, autonomy, all that. I think we're 
accruing high risk because we at SOCOM are not able to get 
after that based on a flat top line on 5 years, $1 billion in 
lost buying power that is reflective of that 14 percent lost 
buying power.
    Senator Kelly. Would it be fair for me to say then that a 
risk in deterrence because if you're not deterring our 
adversaries, there's a higher chance you're going to have to 
put some of your troops in harm's way that the risk to your 
forces, personally risk to them being injured or killed in 
combat, that that has gone up.
    I think it's probably fair to say the same thing on the 
modernization side of this. If you don't have the equipment you 
need and you're facing a more challenging adversary, that 
that's possibly putting folks at risk as well?
    General Fenton. Senator, I'll take it from the 
modernization piece first. I think first and foremost, the risk 
is not winning, not being able to complete the mission in the 
future environment. Again, against the backdrop of what we're 
seeing in Ukraine with the changing character of war that has, 
I call it a version of symmetry and asymmetry.
    Symmetry, being all the things--and certainly the Russian 
Federation had, that any nation needs to go to war tanks, and 
missiles, and airplanes, and helicopters. Then asymmetry, where 
Ukraine did not have that, and has imposed costs on the Russian 
Federation through all things that we're observing, 
institutionalizing, and operationalizing. I think we're taking 
risks there and that risk is about winning.
    It certainly has a force protection component to it, 
because if you're unable to get through the contested and 
congested battle space of integrated air missile defense, radio 
frequency spectrums, knocking your things down, electronic 
warfare, there is a force protection component for sure to 
that. I look at both, but I think it's both of those and 
modernization.
    In deterrence, I think it's more about aggregated risk, us 
not being able to fulfill the parts of a campaign plan or a no 
plan that the combatant commanders absolutely would rely on. 
That probably at some point has aggregated risk for his end 
states and certainly their operations.
    Senator Kelly. Right. Thank you, General, and Mr. Jenkins, 
on China Gray Zone operations, they execute this all the time 
as an instrument of national power and in their effort to 
supplant us as the world's preeminent superpower. So, what 
adjustments, just quickly in statute or fiscal authorities, 
would you need to better compete and deter the People's 
Republic of China (PRC)?
    Mr. Jenkins. In terms of authorities, we are working 
sufficiently and efficiently with what we have right now. It 
comes down to what, what the general outlined in terms of 
resources. We clearly recognize that deterring China is not 
just in the South China Sea of the first island chain. It's 
everywhere, and in the closed session, we'll be able to give 
you some good vignettes on where we are going head-to-head to 
deter in the irregular warfare arena to make sure that we not 
only meet China where they are, but where they want to be, 
where they, where they're trying to be.
    So, in terms of authorities, we're moving out and executing 
on what we have, but we're always looking to evolve with them 
as well.
    Senator Kelly. If you identify something----
    Mr. Jenkins. We will.
    Senator Kelly.--please, come to us with that. Thank you.
    Mr. Jenkins. Yes, sir.
    Senator Kelly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Senator Kelly, and now I 
recognize SASC Chairman, Senator Wicker.
    Chairman Wicker. Well, thank you Madam Chair, and thank you 
Senator Kelly as you leave because I'm going to followup on the 
very important lines of questioning that you pursued. I was 
planning on asking about what extra things your command has 
been required to do for less buying power.
    But let's talk about the gray zone and followup if we can 
on that. Do you find that there's not enough coordination in 
the irregular warfare field and would you recommend any changes 
in the way our defense department is organized with regard to 
no one having a particular domain over that particular issue 
and coordinating it across the various commands?
    Mr. Jenkins. Well, thank you for pointing that out. 
Certainly, over the last 20 years plus, we've seen our counter-
terrorism muscle be exercised tremendously and our irregular 
warfare muscle, not so much. But nowadays, we are certainly 
exercising that muscle and meeting and deterring, as the 
Senator alluded, China, where they are and where they're trying 
to be. SO/LIC itself----
    Chairman Wicker. Tell us and those listening what sort of 
things, specifically some examples of what the Chinese are 
doing?
    Mr. Jenkins. Well, Senator, certainly we can get into more 
details in the closed session, but it's safe to say, areas 
where you would not think China is, they are. They're trying to 
be there, not only in the South China Sea, the first Island 
chain, but in the Southern Hemisphere.
    We have specific examples that we can point to, to show 
where we have met, deterred, and even ejected their influence 
from certain areas, and so, it's incumbent upon us to not only 
just be counter-terrorist experts, but also irregular warfare 
specialists.
    Chairman Wicker. You can talk about the economic warfare in 
this hearing, can you not?
    Mr. Jenkins. For sure, yes, sir, and that's as you alluded 
to. In China, it's a whole-of-government approach when it comes 
to economic warfare. General Fenton's actually starting a new 
program to bring that together to harness not only attention 
amongst our economic machines here in the United States, but to 
show them where they could draw their power to help our Nation 
as well.
    Chairman Wicker. So, are we organized sufficiently in this 
area, or should one office, one person be in charge of 
coordinating this for either of you?
    Mr. Jenkins. In the irregular warfare arena?
    Chairman Wicker. Yes.
    Mr. Jenkins. We are sufficiently organized within SO/LIC. 
We have a department, we have a team, an actual DASD (Deputy 
Assistant Secretary of Defense), that has irregular warfare 
within, its charter that it's responsible for and leads through 
the Department in terms of helping combatant commands draw 
campaign plans that involve irregular warfare and educating 
throughout the joint force in terms of its irregular warfare is 
not just a SOF opportunity. It's a whole of Department of 
Defense opportunity.
    General Fenton. Senator, I would add.
    Chairman Wicker. Sure, General Fenton.
    General Fenton. I think for now, sufficiently organized, 
you know, as we talk and work through this, it's through 
Secretary Jenkins on their policy side. I think for SOCOM, it's 
unequivocal that we do irregular warfare and our components in 
our operational elements know it. They go back to the SOCOM 
headquarters or geographic combatant commanders.
    What I would offer is, I think it's always worth relooking 
because of the pace of the world and the way the world's 
changing and all type of levels. I talk about modernizing 
authorities, and I think it's always good to keep an eye on 
things so we're not complacent, or even as we think about 
technology, how fast it's moved. My sense is there's certainly 
a need to re-look authorities to make sure that they have not 
stayed stagnant or they have moved as fast as we need them.
    Chairman Wicker. Okay, well, I might want to have a 
conversation, an ongoing conversation with you General and for 
as long as I can, Mr. Jenkins, about how we could perhaps make 
the coordination better in this area. We're intruding on the 
time, Madam Chair, but let me just say.
    There's been a 35 percent increase from the COCOMs for your 
capabilities in the last 3 years. Is that right, General?
    General Fenton. That's correct, Senator.
    Chairman Wicker. One hundred and seventy percent increase 
in SOCOM crisis response missions. Including, but not limited 
to hostage rescues?
    General Fenton. Yes, sir. In fact, we just updated the 
numbers after we got chance to see you. I think today I 
reported 200 percent in 3\1/2\ years.
    Chairman Wicker. So, instead of 170 percent. Then manpower 
cuts of nearly 5,000 personnel in recent years. How did those 
come about?
    General Fenton. Well, Senator a couple things. I think 
through the lens of the defense planning scenario and the work 
that the service has to do along with the Department, against 
any potential scenario, and I'll leave at that because we could 
talk more in a classified session. My sense is that services 
took a look at the lens that they were given through those 
scenarios and came away with, we don't need X number of SOF.
    Over time, my sense is that that continued surely to gain 
traction in the Department. As a result, I think you're very 
aware of a point last year where Secretary of Defense Austin 
made a decision to reduce SOF by 3,000 people.
    Chairman Wicker. Well, have these crisis response requests 
gone unanswered?
    General Fenton. Senator, that----
    Chairman Wicker. With everything you're facing with the 
lack of funding and the lack of purchasing power and cuts of 
5,000?
    General Fenton. As I said in my opening statement, crisis 
response is the one place that I'm taking no risk. So, we put 
everything we have against the crisis response today because 
our sense is that is a sacred obligation. Presidentially 
directed, SECDEF directed, we cannot fail.
    Chairman Wicker. So, the other things that you might put 
behind those crisis response things might be, for example?
    General Fenton. Senator, I feel like we're absolutely 
taking risks in two places, modernization, and deterrence. 
Deterrence would be that mission that we are taking risk in and 
we're taking risk because in my sense, we are unable to answer 
the combatant commander's requirements to the level that they 
have requested and certainly need. When I look at that, that is 
risk to them and certainly risk to your SOF forces and that 
we're bringing the value that we could be bringing to the 
combatant commands, in preventing great power conflict and 
certainly preparing for it.
    Chairman Wicker. One other thing, Madam Chair. I just hope 
the General understands the Committee's position on both sides 
of the dais, that we need to hear fully from you on your 
unfunded requirements. Tell us what you need, be honest about 
it, and we'll try to get it for you. But we have found that 
some places within our defense establishment, they're reluctant 
to actually be honest with us about all the requirements that 
remain unfunded.
    Thank you for your indulgence, Madam Chair.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Chairman.
    General Fenton. You got my commitment to that Senator.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, General Fenton. Next, I will 
recognize Senator Shaheen 5 minutes. Thank you.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, Mr. Jenkins, 
you talked about feeling confident about our irregular warfare 
capacity. Where do you put information operations that 
irregular warfare?
    Mr. Jenkins. Thank you for pointing that out, because 
irregular warfare is just like, when you think about a kinetic 
strike, there are regular warfare strikes that are just as 
potent or valuable or important and need to be timed 
accordingly. So, the coordination for information operations 
actually resides within SO/LIC, within my organization.
    So, we have the unique opportunity to coordinate across the 
combatant commands, not only within DOD, but also with our 
sister agencies, with the Agency, with Department of State, and 
so those information operation plans are coordinated. So, that 
messages are comprehensive and complimentary was the word I was 
trying to think of instead of getting each other off track and 
timed accordingly. So, it's very important.
    Senator Shaheen. Well, I understand that you have the 
ability to coordinate. I'm concerned. General Fenton, you 
talked about the 3000 person cuts to SOF, and my understanding 
is that many of those were enablers for the military 
information support operations (MISO). Is that correct?
    General Fenton. That's correct, Senator.
    Senator Shaheen. I am concerned about our ability to 
compete in those information operations. We had a hearing in 
the Foreign Relations Committee at the beginning of the year 
where our China experts said that China is spending $1.1 
billion a year on information operations, disinformation 
misinformation. Right now, we've completely dismantled our 
humanitarian and foreign aid presence in the regions where 
China has a foothold. We don't have anybody in charge of 
information operations across as far as I can tell--now, maybe 
we do, and I just don't know about it--across defense, State, 
and the Administration and the President just fired General 
Haugh, the head of Cyber Command.
    So, help me understand how we're able to compete in the 
information arena when we don't have anybody in charge, and 
when we've lost a lot of our people who are doing that work.
    General Fenton. Yes, ma'am. In terms of that, who's 
actually in charge and in coordination for the Department of 
Defense, that would fall by default to my organization, because 
I support the Under Secretary of Defense for policy, who is the 
principal information operation advisor to the SECDEF.
    So, we do have a coordination body and ability to do that. 
I have a full-time team that that's organizing and actively 
engaging with the combatant commands in terms of funding, also 
in messaging. Then they work outwardly with our State and 
agency partners so that if one agency is going to employ a 
message or an information operation, it's adequately 
coordinated with the other so that we don't have fracture side.
    Senator Shaheen. So, if China's spending over a billion 
dollars a year on their messaging strategy, how much are we 
spending in the Department of Defense on our messaging 
strategy?
    General Fenton. Ma'am, I'd have to get back to you with 
that specific number. But what we are doing is we're trying to 
make sure that we are good stewards----
    Senator Shaheen. Is it fair to say we're not spending a 
billion dollars a year?
    General Fenton. Correct. Yes, ma'am. That is fair.
    Senator Shaheen. Significantly less?
    General Fenton. Significantly less. We are trying to be 
smart with every penny for sure, ma'am.
    Senator Shaheen. But it's not likely that we're able to 
match the operations that China's doing, despite our intention 
and the fact that we think we can do it better, because we 
don't have the infrastructure to do that. We've dismantled our 
global engagement center at the Department of State. We're 
dismantling Voice of America, Radio Free Asia, all of the media 
that we've relied on really since the cold war to get messaging 
across to accurately reflect the position of the United States 
against our adversaries.
    So, again, I would ask you, General Fenton, do you think 
you have--should we be doing more to resource those information 
operations?
    General Fenton. Well, Senator, you and I have talked about 
this for----
    Senator Shaheen. We have.
    General Fenton.--quite some time. My sense, I'll start with 
information operations are absolutely critical. You know, 
there's a sense of you may not win a war with information 
operations like you could with artillery. You can certainly 
lose it if you're not a key part of that and putting out the 
messages. I would offer, I think as a United States of America, 
we've got a great message to tell. My sense is that there is a 
void. You mentioned misinformation, disinformation by any 
adversary. There's a void out there that's not being filled by 
our message.
    I think we take it certainly in Special Operations Command 
with our information officer professionals to really work at 
that in concert with our more often not our country teams, our 
embassy country teams, to put those messages out that assure 
populations or reassure and also at points in time, deter 
adversaries. That is also part of the information operations 
space. So, thank you for the opportunity to comment.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you, Senator Shaheen. We'll move 
to Senator Rosen.
    Senator Rosen. Well, thank you, Chairwoman Ernst, Ranking 
Member Slotkin for holding this hearing. It's very important. 
I'd also like to thank General Fenton and Mr. Jenkins for 
testifying today and for your service--excuse me, I'm going to 
scoot in a little bit here--service to our Nation.
    I want to talk about Special Operations Forces in Syria 
because the United States and Syrian Democratic Forces, the 
SDF, they share an interest in preventing an Islamic State of 
Iraq and Syria (ISIS) resurgence in northeastern Syria. Any 
escalation in the region, which is Turkish backed Syrian 
National Army and the central government in Damascus engaged 
military with the SDF would lead to instability that we know 
ISIS could exploit.
    That is extremely concerning, as is the possibility that 
such instability combined with destabilizing efforts from Iran 
and its proxies could cause SDF personnel guarding ISIS prisons 
and displaced persons camps to leave their posts in order to 
defend their territory. This would open the door to the 
possible escape of captured ISIS fighters and their families, 
as we saw that just play out in 2019.
    So, General Fenton, given our SOF partnership with the SDF 
and the Defeat ISIS campaign, including security training and 
assistance, what are SOF and the SDF doing to prevent breakouts 
from SDF run prisons and displaced persons camps to ensure that 
captured ISIS fighters and their families do not return to the 
battle space?
    I know this is a question that geographically pertains to 
CENTCOM, but our troops performing these counter-terrorism 
mission missions are Special Operation Forces.
    General Fenton. Senator, I think the very first thing we do 
is partner with our SDF partners, it's almost a decade now. I 
can get back and certainly provide written on the record how 
long we've done it, but I think it's about a decade, is 
disrupt, degrade and work to defeat ISIS in Syria. It's a 
threat certainly in the United States as we've laid out before. 
Many of the committees have come before you have talked about 
it.
    But I think the first thing we do is disrupt and degrade 
ISIS along with SDF counterparts, that certainly vectors into 
protecting the prisons and the camps. I think that, you know, 
if you look at it that's keeping improvised explosive ISIS 
bombers from attacking those, creating a level of or 
opportunities for breakout, that is taking action in places 
that may not be close to the camps, but we know have planning 
going on in the camp.
    So, I think there's many things your ARSOF team is doing 
along with our SDF partners to first and foremost, and that is 
the mission, disrupt and degrade and diminish ISIS, spur the 
CENTCOM and SECDEF direction, and also protect those camps from 
a breakout and a prison as well.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I'm going to direct this question 
to both of you staying on the same topic, because how does a 
continued elimination of ISIS leadership and which SOF you have 
accomplished time and time again, impact ISIS's ability to plan 
and carry out attacks on United States Forces and SDF front 
prisons and displaced persons camps? What are we doing more 
specifically to degrade Iranian aligned militias from attacking 
or attempting to attack United States and coalition forces?
    Mr. Jenkins, we can start with you and go on to the General 
please.
    Mr. Jenkins. Thank you, ma'am. We see all those problems 
clear-eyed for sure, and thank you for sharing that concern 
with us. As General Fenton alluded to, looking at what SOF can 
control what we can do in this space. We take that very 
seriously. We are at the leading edge to make sure that our SDF 
partners can maintain control of those prisons, that they can 
repatriate where appropriate and when possible, so that we can 
decrease the population of potential breakout and under 
difficult situations.
    Then in terms of decreasing malign influence, we have to 
make sure that, similar to China, that we are deterring 
wherever possible, whether it's at the level of armed conflict 
or below with irregular warfare. We have the ability and lots 
of tools across the spectrum to make sure that we are deterring 
them from being in the battle space where they want to be, and 
where they're trying to be.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. General Fenton, anything to add?
    General Fenton. Senator, I would offer on the ISIS piece I 
think is very important, as you've alluded to, to keep the 
pressure on ISIS by degrading their leadership the operational 
experience, personnel, the communicators, financiers, all of 
these things come together for attacks, not only in the Middle 
East against our forces, and that is force protection as we 
take it, but also in Europe and against our Homeland.
    ISIS is an ex-op's threat. So, I think that is the multiple 
responsibility for your Special Operations teammates, not only 
ISIS, Al-Shabaab, and al Qaeda, but getting after these layers 
is really important to keep any of those terrorist groups from 
being able to plan and execute an attack on the Homeland.
    Senator Rosen. Thank you. I'll yield back, but I'm going to 
actually ask a question for the record about the Houthis 
relations with Al-Shabaab. So, I'm glad you brought that up 
because it's critically important we discuss that as well. 
Thank you.
    Senator Ernst. Thank you, Senator Rosen, and at this time, 
we will recess for about 7 minutes, which will give us time to 
move over to the SVC-217, and we will go into a closed hearing 
at that point. So, I call a recess.
    [Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m., the Committee adjourned.]

    [Questions for the record with answers supplied follow:]

               Questions Submitted by Senator Tom Cotton
               special operations command and supplements
    1. Senator Cotton. General Fenton, it also surprised me that the 
Special Operations Community does not currently provide supplements 
that average Americans are allowed to utilize for optimal athletic 
performance such as creatine. Do you support special operators having 
access to these supplements, not on their own dime, to optimize 
performance?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM supports the use of appropriated funds for 
the provision of third-party certified dietary supplements, in 
accordance with Department of Defense Instruction (DODI) 6130.06, Use 
of Dietary Supplements in the DOD, such as creatine to enhance optimal 
performance and operational readiness of special operators, while also 
ensuring the safe use of any dietary supplement. We look forward to 
Congress' support in this effort.

    2. Senator Cotton. General Fenton, can you commit to working with 
Congress to address this issue and get our special operators the 
supplements and hormone therapies they deserve after sending them into 
some of the most demanding and dangerous environments in the world?
    General Fenton. Yes, USSOCOM is committed to collaborating with 
Congress, the Department of Defense, academia, and industry to address 
the need for evidence-based dietary supplementation and FDA-approved 
hormone therapy solutions that support the unique physical and 
psychological demands placed on our special operators.

                           operator syndrome
    3. Senator Cotton. General Fenton, there are widespread impacts of 
``operator syndrome''--the syndrome associated with low testosterone 
and other imbalances resulting from years of operating under chronic 
stress. Do you believe the Special Operations community should call for 
regular blood testing to identify hormonal imbalances associated with 
``operator syndrome''?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM medical providers adhere to current 
clinical guidelines on hormonal imbalances and ensure that Special 
Operators who are experiencing symptoms, which may be related to low 
testosterone or other hormonal imbalances, receive a comprehensive 
work-up, including blood testing of hormone levels and appropriate 
treatment. USSOCOM partners with medical specialists at military 
medical treatment facilities and within the provider networks, 
including endocrinologists, urologists, and sports medicine physicians 
to ensure optimal care.
    USSOCOM would support a longitudinal study of hormone levels in 
Special Operators, which could inform future guidelines on testing and 
supplementation. Normal testosterone levels vary widely, and current 
medical literature provides a broad reference range. Research that 
specifically targets the SOF population would be extremely helpful to 
determine if and how their ``normal'' hormone levels differ from the 
general population, and how those differences correlate with 
performance optimization and health improvement.

    4. Senator Cotton. General Fenton, do you believe our policies 
should reflect a desire to get as many operators access to hormone 
treatment as possible--acknowledging that their needs may be more 
aggressive than the average citizen?
    General Fenton. Our policies are currently designed to ensure that 
every operator who is experiencing symptoms due to hormonal imbalances 
receives a comprehensive evaluation with the appropriate specialists, 
and when indicated, treatment to correct irregularities. USSOCOM's 
medical and Preservation of the Force and Family (POTFF) human 
performance teams--which include medical providers and SOF medics, 
licensed nutritionists, physical therapists, strength and conditioning 
specialists, athletic trainers, mental health providers, and cognitive 
performance specialists--are trained to recognize potential symptoms of 
hormone imbalance and communicate their concerns to SOF patients and 
clients.
    While Special Operations personnel face unique operational demands 
and potentially higher stress levels contributing to hormonal 
imbalances, treatment decisions prioritize individual medical needs and 
established clinical guidelines for hormone replacement therapy. In 
addition to hormone replacement therapy when appropriate, our medical 
providers rely on non-pharmacological interventions including stress 
management, sleep optimization, exercise, and nutritional counseling.

                  preservation of the force and family
    5. Senator Cotton. General Fenton, SOCOM [U.S. Special Operations 
Command] has a program called Preservation of the Force and Family 
[POTFF] that is specifically designed to enhance human performance. Yet 
out of the approximately $80 million allocated for that program, none 
is allocated to address these hormone or supplement performance and 
optimization issues. Will you commit to seeing if any of that money can 
be re-allocated to address this appropriately?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM lacks the statutory authority to procure 
quality dietary supplements and sports foods using Major Force Program 
11 funding. If granted new authorities to procure dietary supplements 
and sports food items for SOF servicemembers, USSOCOM will work with 
ASD SO/LIC and DHA on policy and budgetary requirements associated with 
any changes to authorities to ensure the health and mission 
effectiveness of SOF, without degrading the other key POTFF services 
for SOF warfighters. Currently, the POTFF program budget does include 
contracted service support of Performance Dietitians to advise SOF 
Commands on hormone and supplements issues.

                               __________
                           Senator Joni Ernst
                   ubiquitous technical surveillance
    6. Senator Ernst. General Fenton, as you are aware of the threat of 
Ubiquitous Technical Surveillance [UTS], from your standpoint, are we 
executing a coordinated strategy to deal with such a threat? In your 
opinion, who owns or should own that strategy? What measures will you 
implement to conduct thorough digital risk assessments aimed at 
identifying and mitigating vulnerabilities exploited through UTS?
    General Fenton. Yes. In the 2024 National Counterintelligence 
Strategy, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence through 
the National Counterintelligence and Security Center (NCSC) identified 
the growing threat of cutting-edge technologies, such as technical 
surveillance equipment being employed by foreign intelligence entities, 
and goals for the intelligence community to mitigate.
    The NCSC's charter as the Nation's premier source for 
counterintelligence and security expertise leads the development of a 
whole of government strategy to address the challenges of UTS.
    The USSOCOM Director of Intelligence (J2), in accordance with the 
2024 National Counterintelligence Strategy guidance, as the office of 
primary responsibility for the UTS problem set in close collaboration 
with the Director of Operations (J3), and intelligence community 
partners to effectuate the NCSC strategy, has developed procedures to 
assess the counterintelligence risks to include UTS of on-going 
operational activities, specifically leveraging sensitive intelligence 
reporting to identify adversary capabilities to exploit UTS threat 
vectors, and develop mitigation techniques to secure those operations, 
activities, and investments. USSOCOM has identified an enterprise gap 
in countering the long-term threats posed by UTS and the J2 is 
sponsoring a capability development requirement to centralize and 
synchronize counter UTS efforts across the enterprise to gain 
efficiencies within the current fiscal constraints.

    7. Senator Ernst. General Fenton, the recently published SOF 
[Special Operations Forces] Imperatives 2025 document highlighted the 
threat the digital surveillance economy or UTS poses to SOF. The 
digital surveillance economy collects, resells, and resolves our 
commercial transactions and digital habits is an unavoidable part of 
today's operating environment. The digital signatures and patterns of 
life of our SOF operators, their communities, and partners risk being 
exploited by our adversaries. What requirements, policies and programs 
does SOCOM and its subordinate commands have in place to manage this 
UTS risk?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM established an Identity Management Program 
of Record in 2014 with the Director of Operations, J3, as the Office of 
Primary Responsibility. This program provides identity assessment and 
threat mitigation capabilities by incorporating people, technology, and 
tools to: assist with the protection of SOF members, their families, 
and our organizations; coordinate identity management standards and 
procedures; and provide training to enable and empower USSOCOM 
personnel to protect their identities. In doing so, USSOCOM strengthens 
its resilience against UTS threat vectors and ensures viable options--
especially in the case of sensitive activities. The USSOCOM Identity 
Management Program adheres to three key tenets: (1) Train: Train and 
Educate the force to protect identity data; (2) Govern: Provide policy 
and governance to the SOF Enterprise, and (3) Employ: Deliberate and 
judicious application of capability to execute the program's vision. 
USSOCOM incorporates these key tenets of Identity Management into a 
larger strategy that supports, enables, and protects SOF before, 
during, and after the conduct of global special operations and 
activities. Additionally, USSOCOM disaggregates its Identity Management 
Program by providing trained Identity Management Technicians to 
subordinate Commands. Identity Management Technicians are then able to 
conduct tailored identity management activities for individual 
personnel, organizations, and assets that are unique to assigned 
missions and acceptable risk. Furthermore, the J3 coordinates closely 
with the J2, Director of Intelligence to deconflict and share training 
opportunities on protecting identities against the threat of UTS. 
Looking to the future, USSOCOM is seeking opportunities to partner 
closer with the Services. Identity management programs at the Service 
level will be mutually beneficial to educate and protect the General 
Purpose Force and potentially mitigate digital dust prior to a 
servicemembers ascension into the SOF community.

                               __________
                        Senator Elizabeth Warren
                             civilian harm
    8. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, do you agree 
that one difference between the United States and its potential 
adversaries is the greater value that the U.S. Government puts on 
protecting human life and liberty at home and abroad?
    Mr. Jenkins. The Department of Defense has a strong history of 
compliance with the law of armed conflict, and our commanders strive to 
minimize harm to civilians
    General Fenton. USSOCOM, like the Department of Defense, values all 
human life, be it a combatant or non-combatant, and is committed to 
mitigating and responding to civilian harm for legal, moral, 
operational, and strategic reasons, including to improve the 
capabilities and effectiveness of our SOF, while recognizing the 
protection of civilians during military operations. This is not only a 
top priority for USSOCOM, but a moral obligation for all our SOF 
members currently operating around the globe.

    9. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, what is your 
understanding of title 10 U.S.C. 184, which established the Civilian 
Protection Center of Excellence?
    Mr. Jenkins. I am aware of the statute, which requires DOD to 
operate the Civilian Protection Center of Excellence as a focal point 
for matters relating to civilian harm, spells out its purpose and use, 
and requires the issuance of an annual report.
    General Fenton. Title 10 U.S.C. Sec.  184 mandated the Secretary of 
Defense to operate the Civilian Protection Center of Excellence (CP 
CoE) with the purpose of institutionalizing and advancing knowledge, 
practices, and tools for preventing, mitigating, and responding to 
civilian harm. Department of Defense Instruction 3000.17 designated the 
Army as the joint proponent for Civilian Harm Mitigation Response 
(CHMR) and directs the Army to establish the CP CoE.

    10. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, the U.S. 
military has spent many years working to improve its ability to prevent 
and mitigate civilian harm without sacrificing lethality--including 
through the development of the DOD [Department of Defense] Instruction 
on Civilian Harm under the first Trump administration. These efforts 
received bipartisan support from Congress and grew out of a recognition 
from the U.S. military itself that, after over 2 decades of U.S. wars, 
warfighters needed better tools and trustworthy systems to prevent 
civilian harm, uphold U.S. values, and prevent the moral injury and 
psychological trauma that too often comes with deadly mistakes. What do 
you understand to be the importance of preventing and responding to 
civilian harm for successful special operations, including in areas 
outside of active hostilities or in support of allies and partners?
    Mr. Jenkins. I believe it is both morally right and in the U.S. 
national interest to reduce civilian harm caused by military 
operations. The Department will continue to address the challenges of 
civilian presence on the battlefield in a way that enhances our 
effectiveness and does not constrain our commanders or diminish our 
lethality.
    General Fenton. USSOCOM values demand the safeguarding of non-
combatants during SOF operations. Failure to prioritize this undermines 
our legitimacy, erodes public trust, and fuels adversary propaganda. 
Civilian Harm Mitigation is vital for maintaining local support, 
strengthening partnerships, and denying adversaries opportunities to 
exploit civilian casualties. Mitigating and appropriately responding to 
civilian harm underscores both our values and the precision of our 
capabilities. Furthermore, it sets a critical example for our partners 
and allies to emulate.

    11. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, what value can 
advisors with expertise in civilian harm mitigation and response 
provide to commanders?
    Mr. Jenkins. Advisors with expertise in civilian harm mitigation 
and response support our commanders by analyzing planned operations, 
identifying potential risks to civilians, and recommend adjustments to 
tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) to minimize harm.
    General Fenton. In the past, CHMR advisors assisted Commanders and 
their staffs in mitigating civilian harm without compromising 
lethality. Their expertise enhanced precision, preserving legitimacy 
and enabling mission success. They proactively shaped strategies, 
providing foresight into the civilian environment and potential second 
and third-order effects of operations. This strengthens partnerships, 
safeguards our forces, and informs decisionmaking. Early staff 
integration during Shape and Deter planning is key to mitigating harm 
and preparing appropriate responses to potential incidents.

    12. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, how has Special 
Operations benefited from the Civilian Protection Center of Excellence?
    Mr. Jenkins. The Civilian Protection Center of Excellence has 
provided support to Special Operations in preparation for, during, and 
following military operations by enhancing operational effectiveness, 
increasing battlefield awareness, and minimizing harm caused to 
civilians.
    General Fenton. The CP CoE served as hub and facilitator of 
Department-wide analysis and expertise related to civilian harm 
mitigation and response, aiding the operationalization of CHMR concepts 
through guidance, force development, training and education.

    13. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, how has Special 
Operations supported and implemented the Civilian Harm Mitigation 
Response and Action Plan (CHMR-AP)?
    Mr. Jenkins. SO/LIC and numerous other DOD components, including 
the Combatant Commands, contributed to the design of the CHMR-AP and 
worked with others across the force to implement it. We continue to 
support CHMR efforts being applied in a way that enhances our military 
effectiveness and does not constrain commanders or diminish our 
lethality.
    General Fenton. USSOCOM has made significant progress on its 
assigned CHMR actions, reaching an estimated 52 percent completion 
rate. However, further progress is contingent upon the CP CoE and 
higher echelons completing their tasks. USSOCOM and its Subordinate 
Components are actively working with supported Geographic Combatant 
Commands to ensure the effective integration of SOF capabilities and 
protection of civilians and non-combatants during operations and 
exercises involving SOF.

    14. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, what have been 
the benefits for Special Operations in supporting and implementing the 
Civilian Harm Mitigation Response and Action Plan?
    Mr. Jenkins. Advisors with expertise in civilian harm mitigation 
and response support our commanders by analyzing planned operations, 
identifying potential risks to civilians, and recommend adjustments to 
tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) to minimize harm.
    General Fenton. This increased transparency fosters trust with 
local populations and strengthens the legitimacy of our operations. 
Proactive mitigation is enhanced through a collaborative effort across 
the DOD, Combat Supported Agencies (CSA), and NGO's to accurately 
depict the civilian environment through rigorous data analysis, and 
adherence to policies that mitigate civilian harm.

    15. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, do you believe 
that our troops are at higher risk for retribution as the number of 
civilian deaths from U.S. military operations or U.S.-led military 
operations increases?
    Mr. Jenkins. American security rests on the ability and will to use 
lawful and appropriate military power. This is a simple fact in a 
dangerous world. At the same time the Department of Defense has a 
strong history of compliance with the law of armed conflict, and our 
commanders strive to minimize harm to civilians
    General Fenton. Civilian harm can fuel resentment and potentially 
motivate retaliatory actions against U.S. forces, impacting both their 
physical security and the overall operational environment. SOF 
recognizes that minimizing civilian harm is crucial for maintaining 
local support, strengthening partnerships, and denying adversaries 
exploitable propaganda.

    16. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, how does 
preventing and mitigating civilian harm help to promote U.S. national 
security?
    Mr. Jenkins. Actions taken to mitigate civilian harm--such as 
increasing our battlefield awareness and our precision--also enhance 
our military effectiveness. In addition, mitigating civilian harm 
supports U.S. strategic goals and limits strategic advantages for our 
adversaries.
    General Fenton. Preventing and mitigating civilian harm 
significantly contributes to U.S. national security. Respect for 
civilian lives and property enhances U.S. legitimacy on the global 
stage, bolstering international partnerships and facilitating foreign 
policy objectives. Conversely, causing civilian harm undermines U.S. 
credibility, alienating allies, and empowering adversaries. Protecting 
civilians improves stability and security in conflict zones, reducing 
the likelihood of protracted conflicts, terrorism, and the need for 
costly U.S. military interventions. Furthermore, it protects U.S. 
servicemembers by mitigating the risk of retaliatory violence and 
hostility. Finally, protecting civilians upholds core American values 
of human life and dignity, reinforcing the Nation's moral standing and 
maintaining public support for military operations both domestically 
and internationally.

    17. Senator Warren. Mr. Jenkins and General Fenton, does having 
civilian-harm prevention personnel build trust and relationships with 
local civil society groups help commanders to collect useful 
intelligence information?
    Mr. Jenkins. Yes. By demonstrating a commitment to mitigating 
civilian harm, commanders can build trust and cooperation with local 
communities. This improves intelligence gathering, facilitates access 
to key areas, and reduces resistance to military operations.
    General Fenton. USSOCOM recognizes the importance of building trust 
and relationships, critical actions to develop a robust civilian 
environment picture and gather critical intelligence to inform 
Commanders and their staffs.

    18. Senator Warren. General Fenton, in what ways do you see 
civilian harm mitigation and response efforts furthering SOCOM's 
mission and the effectiveness of its operations?
    General Fenton. Protecting civilians and non-combatants 
significantly enhances USSOCOM's mission effectiveness. Minimizing 
civilian harm reduces blowback, fostering a permissive operating 
environment for SOF and improving mission success. This effort 
strengthens operational legitimacy, increasing cooperation with 
partners and bolstering information operations by countering negative 
narratives. It also builds trust with partner forces, improving 
interoperability; furthermore, it fosters greater access and freedom of 
movement by building rapport with local populations. Finally, it 
mitigates legal and political risks, while contributing to long-term 
stability and security, reducing the need for future interventions.
                           blast overpressure
    19. Senator Warren. General Fenton, how have Special Operators 
benefited from working with community partners, such as Home Base, to 
treat servicemembers who have been exposed to blast overpressure or 
have suffered brain injuries?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM has benefited greatly from Community 
partners who address traumatic brain injury (TBI) or blast overpressure 
injuries. Our Special Operators deserve to have the best care that they 
can possibly get from the military healthcare system and in our 
communities. Our partnership with Home Base and other institutions 
remains strong as we have a commitment to taking care of our 
servicemembers. Community organizations have become an integral part of 
ensuring that we take care of Special Operators while in uniform and 
afterwards.

    20. Senator Warren. General Fenton, how have Special Operators 
benefited from the Comprehensive Brain Health and Trauma [ComBHaT] 
Program at Home Base?
    General Fenton. Over 1,150 USSOCOM servicemembers have attended 
ComBHaT since the 2019 pilot program and 93 percent have returned to 
duty after attending. This high return-to-duty rate demonstrates the 
effectiveness of ComBHaT, and the value of partnership with community 
organizations like Home Base in supporting the health and readiness of 
our operators.

    21. Senator Warren. General Fenton, why is it important to mitigate 
the risks of blast overpressure for Special Operators?
    General Fenton. It is important for us to understand and mitigate 
the risk of blast overpressure because of our inherent commitment to 
our people. People are our No. 1 priority. We have an obligation to 
protect the brain health and cognitive functioning of our USSOCOM 
servicemembers, while preserving the required lethality. USSOCOM is 
leveraging next-generation technologies to mitigate blast overpressure 
risks, while effectively monitoring and tracking operator exposures.

    22. Senator Warren. General Fenton, why is it important to ensure 
Special Operators have access to quality care after exposure to blast 
overpressure?
    General Fenton. While much remains unknown about the long-term 
effects of blast overpressure on the brain, USSOCOM is taking decisive 
action to protect our personnel today. USSOCOM is committed to early 
identification of operators with brain injuries and symptoms from blast 
overpressure to treat and mitigate possible long-term consequences. We 
invest heavily in our people, and we want them to operate at their 
best.

    23. Senator Warren. General Fenton, how do you work with the 
Department of Veterans Affairs to make sure that servicemembers, 
veterans, and their families are aware of the risks of blast 
overpressure and traumatic brain injury?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM has a strong partnership with the 
Department of Veterans Affairs. USSOCOM utilizes the VA's Polytrauma 
System of Care and network of specialized rehabilitation programs to 
treat SOF servicemembers with TBI and polytrauma. An integral part of 
these rehabilitation program is interdisciplinary evaluation and 
treatment, case management and family education and training. USSOCOM 
families provide a source of strength for our servicemembers, and it is 
critical that they remain involved in medical treatment and 
rehabilitation.

    24. Senator Warren. General Fenton, how would Special Operators 
benefit from logs detailing their exposure to blast overpressure and 
traumatic brain injury, including the number, date, and intensity of 
exposures?
    General Fenton. Special Operators would benefit from being able to 
objectively measure their individual blast overpressure exposure. This 
would allow individuals, Commanders, medical personnel, and researchers 
to integrate risk management, correlate blast overpressure exposure to 
blast related injuries. USSOCOM is at the forefront of developing tools 
to help SOF operators monitor their exposure, to include coordinating 
with Program Managers for the Individual Longitudinal Exposure Record 
and Electronic Health Record to capture and present exposure data to 
our Healthcare Providers. A key focus is the investment in and 
deployment of advanced blast sensors that provide the most accurate 
measurement capabilities available. These sensors are being developed 
and fielded to deliver precise data on blast exposure in real-time, 
empowering operators and medical teams to better assess risks and take 
timely action.

    25. Senator Warren. General Fenton, how would Special Operators 
benefit from annual neurocognitive assessments, including one before 
they begin training to establish a baseline, and one before they leave 
the military to determine changes in cognitive health over time?
    General Fenton. In 2019, USSOCOM instituted requirements for more 
frequent neurocognitive assessments than the Department of Defense 
required at the time as we needed closer monitoring of our operators' 
cognitive functioning throughout their careers. The benefit of more 
frequent assessments is that it allows for earlier identification and 
treatment of cognitive changes over the course of a servicemember's 
career. USSOCOM is attempting to validate and leverage tools like rapid 
cognitive and balance assessment apps to establish baselines before 
training events, and to enhance our medical screening processes. The 
August 2024 Deputy Secretary of Defense memorandum on DOD Requirements 
for Management of Brain Health Risks from Blast Overpressure directed 
baseline cognitive testing for all new Active and Reserve members 
during initial military training. This baseline data will greatly 
benefit all servicemembers to include those who become Special 
Operators for monitoring and documentation.

    26. Senator Warren. General Fenton, what steps are you taking to 
address concerns about increased risks of suicide after exposure to 
blast overpressure?
    General Fenton. To address concerns about increased risks of 
suicide after exposure to blast overpressure, the USSOCOM POTFF program 
continues to take a multipronged approach. In the prevention space, we 
have modernized suicide prevention training, integrating virtual 
reality (VR) training to assist with these efforts. The training 
modules highlight the symptoms often seen in those who have experienced 
repeated blast exposure, such as headaches, fatigue, and memory 
difficulties. In addition to highlighting these various concerns, the 
goal of the VR training is to encourage early identification of 
teammates in distress, have uncomfortable yet necessary conversations, 
and have the servicemember connected to care. Leveraging interactive, 
innovative training technology, we hope to decrease stigma in 
addressing these concerns, and getting necessary assistance before 
turning into a crisis.
    Additionally, the Command Senior Enlisted Leaders and I host 
quarterly ``1st SOF Truth Events'' with the leaders of our O-5 and 
above Command teams to discuss key people topics, such as suicide 
prevention, brain health, and mental health to ensure that Command 
leadership teams across the SOCOM enterprise are adopting best 
practices and are taking proactive actions. Our next event will focus 
exclusively on Blast Overpressure education and mitigation strategies.

    27. Senator Warren. General Fenton, what steps are you taking to 
ensure that servicemembers and their families are aware of potential 
increased risks of suicide after exposure to blast overpressure?
    General Fenton. As mentioned earlier, USSOCOM has modernized 
suicide prevention training, integrating VR suicide prevention training 
that also includes a module specifically designed for spouses. The 
training module highlights the symptoms often seen in those who have 
experienced repeated blast exposure, such as headaches, fatigue, and 
memory difficulties. It is our hope that the VR suicide prevention 
training module for spouses will provide them the opportunity to 
practice addressing concern, asking hard questions, and ultimately 
getting their SOF members help if necessary. Following each VR suicide 
prevention training experience is a guided discussion that allows 
participants to conduct a targeted discussion on elevated suicide risks 
after a blast overpressure exposure.
    Our quarterly 1st SOF Truth Events, focused on suicide prevention, 
brain health, and mental health enable Command leadership teams to 
implement proactive actions and promulgate best practices throughout 
their units and down to the servicemembers themselves.

    28. Senator Warren. General Fenton, what resources and support do 
you provide for the families of Special Operators so that they can 
understand the risks of blast overpressure and recognize if their loved 
one may be experiencing symptoms as a result of this exposure?
    General Fenton. USSOCOM wants to increase awareness, identify the 
need for further evaluation, and foster a culture of early reporting 
and intervention. We know that spouses are often the first to recognize 
any change in their partner's well-being.
    It is our hope the VR suicide prevention training module for 
spouses will provide them a tool to help identify the symptoms of blast 
overpressure and the opportunity to support their loved ones in getting 
help they need.
    Additionally, there is an optional survey for spouses as part of 
the USSOCOM's brain health monitoring program. USSOCOM requires every 
SOF Warfighter to complete a Comprehensive Assessment and Symptom 
History (CASH) within 12 months of completing initial SOF training and 
every 5 years afterward. Spouses can take an optional CASH survey 
designed for them. The CASH documents SOF Warfighters' experiences in 
combat and training that may not have been reported previously. Our 
CASH assessors spend a significant amount of time educating Operators 
on TBI and blast overpressure symptoms to enhance treatment.
    In alignment with DOD BOP Implementation Guidance, ASD SO/LIC and 
USSOCOM are committed to educating our servicemembers potentially 
exposed to BOP hazards on the potential adverse health and performance 
effects and actions they can take to protect themselves. We have 
broadened the audience of our quarterly 1st SOF Truth events to include 
the spouses of our O5 and above Command teams. By educating informing 
the spouses of our SOF leaders, they will in turn, help mentor and 
support the spouses of our servicemembers.

    29. Senator Warren. General Fenton, do you support addressing the 
risks of blast overpressure to servicemembers through the swift 
implementation of Sections 721 through Section 725 of the fiscal year 
2025 NDAA [Fiscal Year 2025 National Defense Authorization Act]?
    General Fenton. Yes, I support these DOD-wide efforts to address 
the risk of BOP on servicemembers' brain health.
                               __________
                          Senator Jackie Rosen
    30. Senator Rosen. General Fenton, the Iranian-backed Houthis are 
diversifying their military capabilities and leveraging regional 
conflicts to expand their influence. In recent months, there have been 
reports that the Houthis are working to provide weapons to the Somali 
terrorist group, al-Shabab. This development is incredibly concerning, 
as al-Shabab could utilize more sophisticated Houthi weapons--including 
drones--to target U.S. equities and personnel in the Horn of Africa, 
such as our base in Djibouti. To the extent that you are able in this 
open setting, can you share more about the growing partnership between 
the Houthis and al-Shabab and the risk this poses not only to US 
equities in CENTCOM [U.S. Central Command] and AFRICOM [U.S. Africa 
Command], but also to global shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden?
    General Fenton. Since at least June 2024, the Houthis have provided 
small weapons, ammunition, explosives, and training to al-Shabaab, one 
of al-Qa'ida's wealthiest affiliates. A pragmatic strategic interest 
drives the relationship between the Houthis and al-Shabaab, with 
reported heightened tactical collaboration in transporting equipment 
and weapons, training, and intelligence sharing. The Houthis may be 
facilitating the transfer of advanced weaponry, such as UAVs and 
surface-to-air missiles in exchange for access to al-Shabaab networks 
and new locations from which to attack commercial ships, further 
disrupting freedom of navigation in the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea. 
Iranian encouragement may also drive some of the willingness of the 
Houthis to engage with an ideological adversary, such as al-Shabaab. 
While a formal alliance remains unconfirmed, the growing evidence of 
tactical cooperation, particularly in maritime activities, arms 
trafficking, and potential training exchanges suggests a growing and 
more diverse threat to U.S. equities and global shipping in the region. 
Al-Shabaab has used Houthi-supplied weapons in attacks on the African 
Union presence in Somalia and the group could use Houthi-supplied 
weapons in the current offensive in Lower and Middle Shabelle, Somalia.

    31. Senator Rosen. General Fenton, since our withdrawal from our 
two air bases in Niger last year--at the behest of the host nation--our 
ability to conduct ISR within the Sahel and throughout the African 
continent has been severely degraded. Can you share more about the 
challenges this poses to countering violent extremism in the region?
    General Fenton. The withdrawal of U.S. Intelligence, Surveillance, 
and Reconnaissance (ISR) assets and U.S. SOF from Niger impacted 
USAFRICOM's ability to maintain indications and warnings of terrorist 
activity, and support and enable African partner-led counterterrorism 
in the Sahel, respectively. Terrorist groups in the Sahel, including 
ISIS and al Qaeda affiliates, present a regional threat as they expand 
their activities and attacks from the Sahel into northern Cote 
d'Ivoire, Benin, Ghana, and Togo. Continued and increasing control over 
territory and resources may enable these groups to fund, plan, and 
execute attacks on the U.S. Homeland, and U.S. persons and interests 
abroad. To mitigate this impact, the Department of Defense works with 
and through our West African partners to disrupt, degrade, and deny the 
terrorist activities by strengthening their northern borders with 
Sahelian states, bolstering their military capabilities, and improving 
their own intelligence capabilities. The Department also is working 
with non-African allies and partners to maintain situational awareness 
of terrorist groups in the Sahel.

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