    [Senate Hearing 119-208]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 119-208

                         SWETT AND LACERTE NOMINATIONS
    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                  BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       to

     CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF LAURA SWETT TO BE A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL
     ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION AND DAVID LACERTE TO BE A MEMBER OF THE
                      FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION

                                   __________

                               SEPTEMBER 4, 2025

                                   __________

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                    __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    61-930                      WASHINGTON : 2026
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                            MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine
    JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California
    LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                      Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director
                Patrick J. McCormick III, Majority Chief Counsel
                     Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director
                     Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     1
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
      New Mexico.....................................................     3
    Cassidy, Hon. Bill, a U.S. Senator from Louisiana................     4

                                   WITNESSES

    Swett, Laura, nominated to be a member of the Federal Energy
      Regulatory Commission..........................................     8
    LaCerte, David, nominated to be a member of the Federal Energy
      Regulatory Commission..........................................    13

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    American Cement Association et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    65
    Cassidy, Hon Bill:
        Opening Statement............................................     4
    Earthjustice:
        Questions for consideration for nominees to the Federal
          Energy Regulatory Commission...............................    70
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
    LaCerte, David:
        Opening Statement............................................    13
        Written Testimony............................................    15
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    53
    Landry, Hon. Jeff, Governor of the State of Louisiana:
        Letter for the Record........................................     5
    Lee, Hon. Mike:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Natural Gas Council:
        Letter for the Record........................................    67
    Swett, Laura:
        Opening Statement............................................     8
        Written Testimony............................................    11
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    39

                         SWETT AND LACERTE NOMINATIONS

                                  ----------

                          THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 4, 2025

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,
                         U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

        The Chairman. The Committee will come to order. Good
    morning and welcome to everyone.
        Before I begin my opening statement, I want to let my
    colleagues know basically how we are going to proceed today. I
    also want to thank Senator Heinrich and his staff for working
    with us on today's hearing, getting it scheduled and set up,
    and thanks to all the Senators for your participation.
        Today is the Committee's ninth hearing on nominations for
    the current administration. We are going to hear from two
    nominees, two people who have been nominated to serve on the
    Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, known as FERC--Laura
    Swett and David LaCerte.
        I thank President Trump for sending both nominees over. The
    Commission is what is known as an independent agency, one that
    plays a critical role in America's energy dominance. As the
    Supreme Court explains, FERC's mission is ``to encourage the
    orderly development of plentiful supplies of electricity and
    natural gas at reasonable prices.'' FERC accomplishes this
    mission by overseeing the reliable interstate transmission of
    electricity and transportation of natural gas and of oil. FERC
    regulates wholesale power prices and reviews proposals for
    major energy products, such as natural gas pipelines, LNG
    terminals, and hydroelectric dams. FERC also protects the
    reliability and security of the bulk power system. It enables
    those it regulates to provide affordable, reliable energy to
    millions, and must adopt policies that keep pace with today's
    economy.
        We will meet those nominees and invite each one of them to
    give an opening statement and introduce family and friends here
    in a moment. Our first nominee today is Laura Swett. Ms. Swett
    currently works as an energy and litigation counsel at the law
    firm of Vinson and Elkins, where her principal area of practice
    is federal energy regulatory litigation. She represents
    pipelines and other regulated entities before the Commission.
    She previously served as senior legal and policy advisor to
    then FERC Chairman Kevin McIntyre and Commissioner Bernard
    McNamee. Before that, she was a lawyer in the FERC Office of
    Enforcement, where she led and supported investigations.
        Second, we will hear from David LaCerte. Mr. LaCerte
    recently returned to his position as special counsel with the
    law firm of Baker Botts, where he focused on energy litigation
    and environmental safety and incident response. Earlier this
    year, he served as principal advisor to the Director of the
    U.S. Office of Personnel Management, where he also served in
    the Trump administration in the first go-around. He continues
    to serve there as an unpaid special government employee. Mr.
    LaCerte previously served as Executive Counsel to the Chairman
    of the U.S. Chemical Safety Board, overseeing the Agency's
    response to major chemical incidents nationwide. Mr. LaCerte
    also held several key leadership roles within the Louisiana
    state government, including Secretary of the Louisiana
    Department of Veterans' Affairs. A combat veteran of the United
    States Marine Corps, Mr. LaCerte served as an infantryman with
    the First Battalion, First Marine Division.
        So welcome to both of our nominees. Let's begin. I will now
    turn to my opening remarks.
        The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission holds enormous
    influence over America's ability to power its homes and to fuel
    its industries, and thereby indirectly strengthening American
    national security. When it functions well, families see
    affordable bills, communities see investment, and businesses
    are more able to grow. When it fails, the consequences are felt
    in every corner of the country, in every economic way
    imaginable. Under the Biden administration, FERC was too often
    steered in a direction that was harmful, and that harmed
    hardworking Americans. Costs rose----
        [Protester interrupts.]
        The Chairman [continuing]. Infrastructure projects
    languished in regulatory limbo. Vital pipelines and terminals
    were delayed or denied, while demand for reliable power only
    continued steadily to increase. The record left the nation more
    vulnerable to energy scarcity and more dependent on foreign
    suppliers. The task before today's nominees is to help reverse
    that course. If confirmed, Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte will be
    charged with ensuring FERC applies the law as written, not as
    reimagined by regulators. They will need to evaluate the
    policies that have been put in place by the previous
    administration and roll back those that drove up costs, stifled
    innovation, or weakened the resilience of our grid. Both
    nominees will bring with them valuable experience that can
    serve FERC well. Ms. Swett spent years working directly with
    FERC--at FERC--giving her an inside understanding of how the
    agency operates. And Mr. LaCerte has held leadership roles at
    both the state and federal levels, bringing the perspective of
    a combat veteran who has led under great pressure. These are
    qualities that, if applied, can help ensure FERC has the proper
    focus, providing affordable and reliable energy for the
    American people.
        The stakes in this really couldn't be higher. Americans
    deserve a Commission that takes seriously and sticks to this
    focus on a mission to encourage the orderly development of
    plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas at reasonable
    prices. That mission determines whether families can afford
    their homes, to heat their homes in the winter weather, or
    military bases will have the power that they need to operate,
    and whether our economy will have a foundation for sustained
    growth. This hearing brings an opportunity for both nominees to
    make clear how they will approach these responsibilities. We
    need to know how they view the ongoing legal debate about the
    status of so-called independent agencies and what that means
    for accountability to the law and to the American people, what
    they see as FERC's most important statutory responsibility in
    today's rapidly changing energy landscape, and what their top
    priorities might be in overseeing the natural gas and energy
    sectors, given those sectors' central importance to the U.S.
    economy, especially now. This Committee has a responsibility to
    hold nominees to that standard, and FERC is too important to
    American life to be paralyzed by delay or distracted from its
    core mission. It must focus squarely on the law, on
    reliability, and on the needs of the American people.
        I thank both witnesses--both nominees--for being here
    today, and for their willingness to serve. I look forward to a
    candid conversation about how they would take on this
    responsibility at such a critical moment for our nation's
    energy future.
        I will now turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Heinrich,
    for his opening statement.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

        Senator Heinrich. Thank you Chairman, and welcome to Ms.
    Swett and Mr. LaCerte.
        Most of the offices under our Committee's jurisdiction do
    not have statutorily required qualifications. The Federal
    Energy Regulatory Commission is, however, an exception. The DOE
    Organization Act requires that members of the Commission be
    ``individuals who, by demonstrated ability, background,
    training, or experience, are specially qualified to assess
    fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected by
    federal energy policy.'' The reason for this distinction is
    simple: much of the Commission's work is quasi-judicial. Like
    our courts, FERC must be impartial and non-partisan. Office and
    bureau heads, deputy secretaries, assistant secretaries in both
    the Interior and Energy Departments may take their lead from
    their secretaries, and their secretaries from their president.
    Commission members do not.
        The Commission was established as an independent regulatory
    commission whose members serve fixed terms, not at the pleasure
    of the president. And their performance of the Commission's
    functions is not subject to the supervision or direction of the
    administration. The Commission was designed to serve no
    president, no political party, and no political agenda. Its job
    is to serve the public interest fairly and impartially, guided
    by our laws and the Constitution, not by political whims from
    the White House. The independence of our independent public
    institutions, from the Federal Reserve to the Smithsonian
    Institution is under attack by this administration, and
    destroying the independence of the Federal Energy Regulatory
    Commission would do irreparable damage to public confidence in
    the Commission's decision-making, to regulatory stability, and
    to our energy security. Consequently, our job this morning is
    not only to understand Ms. Swett's and Mr. LaCerte's ability to
    assess fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected
    by federal energy policy, but also to assess their commitment
    to FERC's independence.
        The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator Heinrich.
        We will now turn to our colleague from Louisiana, Senator
    Cassidy, to introduce David LaCerte.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BILL CASSIDY,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA

        Senator Cassidy. It is my privilege to do so, and before I
    begin, I will introduce a letter from my Governor, who is
    supporting Mr. LaCerte's nomination.
        The Chairman. That will be admitted into the record,
    without objection.
        [The letter referred to follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cassidy. Thank you all.
        Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and
    fellow Committee members. I have the privilege of introducing
    David as a nominee for Commissioner of the Federal Energy
    Regulatory Commission. He is a lot of things--a combat veteran
    of the Marine Corps, an attorney, a true conservative, Emily's
    husband, and father to four kids, who are truant today--not
    going to school--but they are all behind him. He attended law
    school at LSU before going on to become a highly successful
    attorney working in energy litigation, practiced privately at
    Sternberg, Naccari and White in New Orleans before serving as
    Special Counsel at Baker Botts, advising clients in the energy
    sector on some of the most complex challenges facing the energy
    industry today.
        After rising through the ranks with the Louisiana
    Department of Veterans Affairs, he was appointed to serve in
    various federal positions, including most recently as White
    House Liaison and Senior Advisor to the Director of the U.S.
    Office for Personnel Management, where he continues to offer
    counsel. Prior to that, he served a term appointment at the
    U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, where he
    oversaw the agency's response to major chemical incidents
    nationwide. That gave him hands-on experience with energy
    infrastructure and safety at the national level, invaluable for
    a FERC Commissioner.
        David's firsthand exposure to Louisiana's energy economy,
    which is based firmly upon petrochemicals, combined with his
    legal and regulatory experience, gives him an intuitive
    understanding of the challenges and opportunities facing the
    LNG industry. David knows liquefied natural gas. Louisiana
    knows liquefied natural gas. And he understands how to move
    projects forward while protecting workers, communities,
    taxpayers, and the environment. He knows what's at stake, and
    how to get results. President Trump is unleashing American
    energy. David LaCerte is a FERC Commissioner who can help him
    do so.
        Thank you for once more answering the call to the American
    people and thank you to your family for supporting you as they
    do.
        Thank you. With that, I yield.
        The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator Cassidy.
        Okay, the rules of the Committee require that all nominees
    be sworn in connection with their testimony. If you would, both
    please stand and raise your right hand.
        Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about
    to give before the Committee will be the truth, the whole
    truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        The Chairman. Thank you. The record will reflect that both
    nominees answered in the affirmative.
        You may be seated.
        Before you begin your opening statements, I am going to ask
    the nominees three questions that we pose to all of the
    nominees that come before this Committee. You can just signify
    by saying yes or no. You don't have to stand for this part.
        First, will you be available to appear before this
    Committee and other congressional committees to represent the
    Commission's positions and respond to issues of concern to
    Congress?
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes.
        Ms. Swett. Yes.
        The Chairman. Second, are you aware of any personal
    holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a
    conflict of interest, or create the appearance of such
    conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to
    which you have been nominated by the President of the United
    States?
        Mr. LaCerte. No.
        Ms. Swett. No.
        The Chairman. And third, are you involved in or do you have
    any assets in a blind trust?
        Ms. Swett. No.
        Mr. LaCerte. No.
        The Chairman. Okay. The record will reflect that both
    witnesses answered in the affirmative to the first question,
    and in the negative to the second and third questions. And
    incidentally, those are the correct answers. You both scored
    100 percent there.
        As I turn to the two witnesses, I will invite each, as he
    or she may prefer, to introduce any friends or family members
    who are here with you today.
        Ms. Swett, we will start with you and then we will proceed
    to Mr. LaCerte after that. Go ahead, Ms. Swett.

       STATEMENT OF LAURA SWETT, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE
                  FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION

        Good morning, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and
    distinguished members of the Committee. I am grateful to appear
    before you today and for your considering my nomination to be a
    Commissioner at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. I am
    deeply honored that the President nominated me for this role
    and I am grateful to the members of the Committee who
    graciously met with me before today.
        I would not be here without the support of many incredible
    people, including those who are behind me. My mother and
    father, Jackie and Charles Swett; My husband, John, who has
    steadfastly supported my goals, and who fathered our two
    beautiful children--a conscientious kindergartener and a fiery
    baby girl; my sister, who happens to be one of the many
    talented, dedicated civil servants who works at FERC; and
    incredible mentors who have given me both great opportunity and
    unwavering guidance are also here today.
        My grandmother lived destitute in the Mekong River Delta of
    Vietnam. My mother escaped the violent oppression of communism
    and fled to the safety of our great country. Her family arrived
    here in 1974 with nothing. My father grew up in a low-income
    New York City housing project in the 1950s. He dedicated over
    40 years to serving the people of this country as a civilian at
    the Pentagon, but not before he was a TSA agent at JFK airport
    in the 70s, if you can imagine. His dedication to the United
    States inspired me to enter civil service myself. I served two
    stints at FERC, first during law school as an unpaid extern,
    and second as a young lawyer in the Office of Enforcement and
    as an advisor to a former Chairman and Commissioner.
        My parents both clawed tooth and nail for every opportunity
    they ever had. They raised me and my sister with the hope of a
    better life and with a profound love of America. That I am
    before you today is the realization of the American dream--for
    them, for the generations of ancestors behind them, and the
    sacrifices that all of them made to get me here today. Given
    this background, I am so eternally grateful for your time and
    consideration.
        My passion for energy began when I was about five years
    old. Shortly after my parents bought a standalone house, they
    generously began to shelter other Vietnamese refugees who
    sought the promise of a better life in America. At that point,
    all I had known of Vietnam was pictures of a war-torn country
    and villagers in rice paddies. On those refugees' first
    evenings on U.S. soil, in my parents' basement, at dusk, I
    turned on all the lights, the TV, and brought all of my
    whirring electric toys. At their great delight, I wholly
    believed in my five-year-old heart that I performed magic for
    them at my command of power. I treasured electricity from that
    point on. From that tender age, and reinforced by my mother
    throughout adulthood, I have appreciated deep in my bones how
    lucky we are in this country to have reliable energy and
    everything that enables. How lucky we are to power our
    hospitals and schools, to air condition our houses, and even to
    have hot showers. I actually think about that every day. This
    is why FERC's mission, as created and empowered by Congress,
    has been my work for the past 15 years, and will continue to be
    for the rest of my life in whatever form that comes.
        Sitting before you is the pinnacle of my career,
    particularly after working for years myself as a FERC civil
    servant. In my mind, the role of each FERC Commissioner is not
    only to vote on specific orders, but it is as a steward of this
    country's economic present and future and an advocate for the
    hundreds of millions of Americans who are impacted by FERC
    jurisdiction. If I have the honor of being confirmed, I will do
    everything in my power to honor the law and the facts of every
    single matter before me, squarely within the confines of the
    laws that you, Congress, granted FERC. And within these
    confines, I would prioritize three core goals for our country,
    based on my independent experience. Our country is also at a
    historic crossroads, and these goals are more important than
    ever:
        One, we must keep the lights on and the pipelines that are
    the pillars of our economy flowing at just and reasonable
    rates.
        Two, we must preserve national and economic security by
    doing everything within FERC's power to buttress the AI
    revolution and facilitate the connection of large load and data
    centers, so that data centers are not forced to build in other
    countries, making every American vulnerable to foreign
    adversaries.
        Three, we must maximize FERC's ability to encourage and
    facilitate infrastructure development. This development has
    faced crippling regulatory uncertainty over the recent past,
    the well functioning and increase of which is critical to
    reliability, safety, and our economy.
        After working alongside the mission-driven, hardworking men
    and women of FERC, and representing electric utilities and oil
    and gas pipelines, I now know that energy is not the magic I
    believed it to be when I was young. Now I know that energy, the
    backbone of our great nation, flows day in and day out from the
    dedication and toiling of thousands of men and women across
    America and in FERC itself. Those men and women keep the lights
    on, enable us to heat and cool our homes, and are the reasons
    that our planes fly, our trains run, and that we enjoy many
    modern comforts. I truly appreciate the honor bestowed upon me
    of being in front of you here today, and thank you so much for
    your time and consideration.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Swett follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you so much, Ms. Swett.
        Mr. LaCerte, you may begin.

      STATEMENT OF DAVID LACERTE, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE
                  FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION

        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member
    Heinrich, and members of the Committee. I am especially
    thankful for the kind words from Senator Cassidy, and I would
    like to thank him for his distinguished service as a champion
    for the people of Louisiana.
        It is an honor to appear before you today. I humbly come
    before you as President Trump's nominee for Commissioner of the
    Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. I would first like to
    recognize some of the core figures in my life. Without their
    support, this nomination would have never been possible. First,
    I would like to acknowledge my wife, Emily. She is uniquely
    special in so many ways. She forever inspires me with her
    kindness, her wisdom, and most of all her passion for life. She
    encourages me to continue my public service, and I would most
    certainly not be here today without her positive influence. I
    want to thank my children and my stepchildren who are with me
    today, Ava, Margaret, Louisiana, and Robert. Special
    recognition goes to their schools in Baton Rouge--St. Jude the
    Apostle and our Lady of Mercy--who have prepared my children
    with just the right amount of Catholic Mass to prepare them for
    today. Every day over the past eight months I have fought to
    make America a better place to live, to work, to raise a
    family, and to prosper. We do this not only for my children but
    for everyone's children, and for their generations to come. I
    want to directly acknowledge the burden carried by the families
    of our public servants. These burdens are profound, and the
    patience and grace given to me by my children carries me
    through the demanding days of life as an appointee.
        Thank you to my parents, Steve and Carol, who are watching
    at home, and raised me up until the day they handed me off to
    Uncle Sam. Thank you to those present and watching at home who
    have fought alongside me in the United States Marine Corps. The
    Marine Corps and our shared ethos have made me into the man
    that stands before you today. Thank you to those currently
    serving, and especially those who gave their last full measure
    of devotion to their country and never made it home. You are a
    guiding light in my life and it's my honor to carry your
    legacy.
        I have been a public servant for most of my career and I
    have sworn an oath to the Constitution on many occasions. I
    have led infantry Marines in the invasion and occupation of
    Afghanistan. I have led state and federal agencies, including
    an independent agency under both the Trump and Biden
    administrations. I have practiced law at one of the oldest and
    most respected energy law firms in the country. These unique
    experiences have afforded me an understanding of the
    intersections of government and industry that has left me well-
    prepared for the role in which I am considered today before
    this honorable Committee.
        Today, FERC is at a historic crossroads. The demand for
    energy is growing, and the infrastructure which has allowed
    this country to thrive for so many decades needs continued
    improvement and investment. The challenge of increasing the
    reliability and resiliency of our grid while simultaneously
    protecting our ratepayers has never been a more important
    balance. It's a foundation that is built brick by brick, and
    decision by decision. Artificial Intelligence, data centers,
    and reindustrialization present a compounding of these issues,
    which will require diligent planning, forecasting, and
    regulatory oversight from both the states as well as FERC. This
    is a challenge that must be met and cannot be delayed. The
    administrative burden placed upon those who seek to invest in
    our infrastructure is staggering. Delays in federal reviews and
    decision-making make energy less reliable and more expensive.
    Reducing processing time and the associated administrative
    burden will speed projects along, allowing those cost savings
    to be passed to ratepayers.
        I believe my background as a government executive and my
    experience as an environmental attorney provide strong
    qualifications and a fresh perspective on these issues
    challenging FERC. The outstanding career staff at FERC cannot
    do this alone. As the Committee has noted, FERC is most
    functional with a fully seated board of complementary
    Commissioners, prepared to work together, along with
    stakeholders, to develop solutions for the problems of today
    and tomorrow. Once again, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member
    Heinrich, and members of the Committee, I appreciate the
    opportunity to appear before you, and I look forward to your
    questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCerte follows:]
       [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thanks so much to both of you.
        We will now start five-minute rounds of questions,
    alternating between Republicans and Democrats. I will go first,
    then Senator Heinrich, and then alternating between Republicans
    and Democrats in order of seniority, subject to the early
    arrival rule.
        Mr. LaCerte, let's start with you. One might observe that
    you haven't had direct experience at the Federal Energy
    Regulatory Commission, but you do bring to the table a wealth
    of personal and professional experience to the role. Tell me
    and the Committee how your background has prepared you well to
    serve as a FERC Commissioner, and how your perspective is
    something that can benefit the Commission's work on behalf of
    the American people?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you for that question. I
    appreciate the opportunity to answer it.
        I know you have all heard my paper resume. I have worked at
    an independent agency before that is bipartisan in nature with
    both Republicans and Democrats. I have practiced as an attorney
    at an energy law firm. I think that the most important
    qualification I have is that I can bring a common-sense
    approach to get problems solved and get things done, and I have
    proven that to the President of the United States. I have an
    outstanding set of experiences in safety, in cyber, and in a
    multitude of issues that help FERC. At the end of the day, I
    think that we can bring a common-sense approach to FERC, to
    work together with the fellow commissioners to kind of have a
    return to the baseline statutes and make energy more affordable
    and more reliable.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        I am going to ask both of you this next question. There is
    currently litigation moving through the federal courts
    challenging the result in a case called Humphrey's Executor.
    That case, of course, addressed the question of the President's
    authority to remove a member of a so-called independent agency,
    to remove somebody in one of those positions from an office
    before the end of a statutorily defined term. We will start
    with you, Mr. LaCerte, and then go to Ms. Swett.
        Mr. LaCerte, what is your view on the issue, and how might
    that impact your performance or your perspective as a
    commissioner, should you be confirmed?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I am aware of the trend in
    cases from Humphrey's Executor. First, I would like to say, we
    are always going to follow the law, if I am confirmed as a FERC
    Commissioner, but I personally would welcome a modification on
    Humphrey's Executor. If the Supreme Court rules in that
    direction, we will follow the law. Every day that I get to
    serve the American people and the American public is a gift. I
    appreciate that every day. I go to work every day and I give my
    best effort, 100 percent, until my service is no longer needed,
    or until the good Lord calls me home, and I am going to
    continue to do that, if confirmed.
        The Chairman. Semper Fi.
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I share my potential colleague's views that it would be a
    true honor to be confirmed to serve on the Federal Energy
    Regulatory Commission. And of course, I will follow the law and
    honor the law in everything that I do and consider the merits
    of every single issue, the law, and the facts before me,
    irrespective of where the litigation comes out in the length of
    my term. Thank you.
        The Chairman. And Ms. Swett, what would be your top
    priority as a commissioner while regulating the natural gas and
    energy sectors? You know, the energy commodities that are
    subject to FERC's jurisdiction represent between three and six
    percent of U.S. GDP, and core inputs of that energy--those
    inputs end up having a multiplier effect on the economy. So,
    with that in mind, what would be your top priority, if
    confirmed as a FERC Commissioner, when regulating natural gas
    and electricity?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I agree with you. FERC's mission is more important than
    ever, given its impact on the economy and the unprecedented,
    historic load growth and demand and also resource adequacy
    issues facing our country. If I have the honor of being
    confirmed, I will always go back to the statute that Congress
    has authorized, and that is encouraging the orderly development
    of plentiful supplies of electricity and natural gas at
    reasonable prices for American consumers. And hand-in-hand with
    that is FERC's mission of ensuring that the lights are on. We
    have to ensure that our grid is stable and that all Americans
    have access to electricity that is reliable.
        The Chairman. Sound objectives and very consistent with
    FERC's statutory mandate. What do you see as some of the most
    significant impediments to achieving those outcomes?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. The
    increasing load that we are facing today, particularly given
    the AI revolution in our country, which is integral to national
    security and our economic stability, makes reliability more
    important than ever. And FERC has dealt with those issues, and
    so have the states, and it's squarely within the crosshairs of
    jurisdiction of federalism. And so, that is something that we
    must navigate very thoughtfully, very carefully, and very
    specific to each instance in which it arises in front of FERC.
        The Chairman. Great.
        Thank you very much. My time has expired. I will turn the
    time over to Senator Martin Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
        Earlier this year, President Trump signed an executive
    order asserting to give the White House greater control over
    independent agencies. As both of you know, FERC is a
    statutorily independent agency with a very clearly defined
    mandate. Ms. Swett, let me start with you. Can you tell me why
    maintaining FERC's independence is so critical?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        Maintaining FERC's independence is critical because that is
    exactly how Congress created the agency. In the DOE
    Organization Act of 1977, Congress carved FERC out of DOE's
    jurisdiction and explicitly provides that no FERC action is
    under review by anyone at DOE. And thus, as a lawyer who has
    been practicing FERC law for 15 years, I will always go back to
    the statute, and that is exactly what Congress directed, and I
    will not exceed the jurisdiction that Congress has given the
    agency, if I am confirmed.
        Senator Heinrich. Mr. LaCerte, same question.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
        First, I want to say, I certainly am no stranger to the
    value of the assertion of independence at independent agencies,
    having spent time at the CSB as the acting managing director,
    acting general counsel, the executive council, and the senior
    advisor to the chairman. I am very familiar with navigating
    independent agencies. And I think the independence of FERC is
    derived from its individual structure via the commissioners.
    Those five individuals have independent voice, and it's
    important that we nominate people and confirm people that honor
    that independence and follow the law and apply the facts.
        Senator Heinrich. According to EIA data, despite all that
    we have heard about affordability today, household electric
    bills are up 10 percent nationally since the beginning of this
    administration--in less than a year, actually, a double-digit
    increase in electric bills. Former Republican FERC Chairman
    Chatterjee has said that we need every single available
    electron on the grid. Both of you have referenced the increased
    demand as a result of data centers and artificial intelligence.
    Would you agree that in the face of incredible rising demand,
    probably the greatest demand increase we have seen since the
    onset of air conditioning, that the grid right now requires
    more, not less affordable and reliable energy?
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I
    absolutely agree with you that the grid needs more generation,
    and more reliable generation, and that we should do whatever we
    can to ensure that the lights are on. That said, under the
    Federal Power Act, Congress has explicitly stated that FERC's
    mission is to ensure that there is no undue discrimination in
    the rates that are charged pursuant to its jurisdiction, and I
    agree with that, of course, per Congress's wisdom. And if I
    have the honor of being confirmed, I will honor that in every
    matter that I examine.
        Senator Heinrich. Let's take that one step deeper down.
    Right now, and for the next several years, actually, probably
    for at least the next four, 95 percent of the projects slated
    to come onto the grid to serve that demand are represented by
    wind, solar, and battery storage. We don't have--when you look
    at other generation sources, if they aren't already in the
    queue, things like combined-cycle natural gas has a five-year
    waiting period for combined-cycle natural gas turbines.
    Nuclear, obviously, has permitting challenges that, oftentimes,
    it takes ten years to get nuclear generation built.
        What would the impact be if we, without replacement
    generation, took that 95 percent out of the pipeline of
    oncoming generation?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        As a humble lawyer who is not an economist or a scientist,
    I am not going to try to guess what the impact of taking that
    huge amount out of the queue would be. However, it is
    incredibly important that we thoughtfully ensure that as much
    generation is available as is necessary to meet the
    unprecedented demand that our country is facing that will rise
    with every passing year. So I commit to you that if I have the
    honor of being confirmed, I will take a hard look at the
    matters before me, including interconnection, which I
    understand is under challenge in several federal courts at this
    time. So I don't want to prejudge anything, but if it comes
    before me and I am confirmed, then I will do everything I can
    to work with my colleagues to come to a solution.
        Senator Heinrich. I am not an economist, but as the son of
    a lineman, I can tell you that if we took that generation off,
    out of the pipeline, we would see incredible increasing costs.
    And that's why I think everyone at this dais is incredibly
    concerned about that.
        Mr. LaCerte, can you commit to maintaining FERC's
    independence and commit that a generator's technology, which
    traditionally has not been considered when making
    interconnection decisions and permitting decisions, that FERC
    will maintain its agnostic approach to generation?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        As my potential colleague Laura has noted, under the law we
    must remain neutral as it relates to such decisions, and we
    will always follow the law.
        Senator Heinrich. Mr. LaCerte, the baseline statute--I
    think that was the word you used--the baseline statute for FERC
    requires that ``the Chairman and members of the Commission
    shall be individuals who, by demonstrated ability, background,
    training, or experience, are specially qualified to assess
    fairly the needs and concerns of all interests affected by
    federal energy policy.'' Do I understand it that you have not
    represented clients before the FERC?
        Mr. LaCerte. Correct, I have not represented clients before
    FERC, Senator, and I believe that that is a strength of mine
    and not a negative. As former Chairman Christie has noted in
    his swan song departing this Commission, there is a real fear
    of regulatory capture of FERC. So, I think a fresh perspective
    and a common-sense approach amongst one of the five members
    would be a welcome addition.
        Senator Heinrich. So you have never signed any pleading on
    a client's behalf with FERC on any matter?
        Mr. LaCerte. Correct.
        Senator Heinrich. Describe to me the energy work that you
    have done at your firm.
        Mr. LaCerte. Sure. Most of my work is done under the Clean
    Air Act, predominantly from a focus of safety and environment.
    I was housed within the energy litigation section of Baker
    Botts, which is one of the preeminent law firms in Texas that
    practice energy law. Within the energy litigation group there
    is an environmental safety and incident response section, and
    that would run the gamut all the way up and down the stream of
    energy, all the way from well heads to refineries,
    transportation and pipelines, which is a crossover from my time
    and jurisdiction on the Chemical Safety Board, all the way to
    specialty chemical refining.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
        The Chairman. Senator Barrasso.
        Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman.
        For both of you, congratulations, welcome to the Committee.
    And now, this is a Committee that gets work done. Last year, we
    passed permitting legislation 15 to 4--bipartisan, because for
    a long, long time, we all agreed that environmental permitting
    requirements have delayed and halted needed infrastructure
    projects for our country to make sure that we have the energy
    and the ability to transmit that energy. Part of this is
    pipelines.
        So, Ms. Swett, even the courts have realized that this is
    out of control. The Supreme Court, as we have discussed, this
    year issued an 8 to 0 ruling that determined that reviews have
    become unreasonably burdensome. In the Seven County decision,
    Justice Kavanaugh wrote that the National Environmental Policy
    Act (NEPA) ``is a procedural cross-check, not a substantive
    roadblock.'' But it has turned into a roadblock, and so the
    Supreme Court agreed eight to nothing. He continued, ``the goal
    of the law is to inform agency decision-making, not to paralyze
    it.''
        So, how do you believe this decision is going to impact how
    FERC reviews projects?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        As someone who has been part of the NEPA process for many
    applications in front of FERC, I share your sentiments that the
    regulatory process can be difficult to navigate and also
    creates quite a bit of uncertainty for infrastructure
    developers who invest billions of dollars into securing our
    nation's energy future. I see Seven County as significantly
    narrowing the scope of environmental review required under
    NEPA, and now it's more clear what FERC is required to do in
    examining the projects before it under the procedural statutes
    of NEPA. I am confident that we, if I have the honor of being
    confirmed, that with my colleagues, we should be able to take a
    hard look at FERC's processes to see what efficiencies are
    available to see what we can make more transparent for the
    industry and to the benefit of the American people.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Mr. LaCerte, we talked about FERC being not really widely
    known about outside Washington, DC, but the Commission's
    actions have a really big impact on the lives of Americans all
    across the country. The decisions that the Commission makes
    determine whether the lights reliably go on when people flip
    the switch. So please provide us your views of FERC's role in
    ensuring reliability and affordability of energy.
        Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely, Senator. I welcome that question
    and thank you for discussing it with me.
        Reliability and affordability are the bedrock of FERC's
    work. So, if confirmed, I will be certain to follow the law,
    but I would ask two questions of every single action in which
    we undertake at FERC as Commissioner: does this make our grid
    and energy structure more reliable, and the second question we
    would ask is, does this make our grid and infrastructure more
    affordable? And if the answer to those questions is no, then
    ask why we are doing it and why we are undertaking those
    things. So, it is a fundamental balance of we need
    affordability and reliability that impacts every aspect of our
    entire industry within our country. As Senator Lee said, you
    know, it's such a large percentage of our GDP. It's important
    that outside of FERC those impacts are recognized, and those
    perspectives are welcome.
        Senator Barrasso. And Ms. Swett, you know, we have had
    years of stagnant electric demand, but that has really changed
    because we are expecting a rapid growth with AI, with data
    centers, electrification. As I pointed out to this Committee in
    the past, that peak demand in the summer is expected, five
    years from now, because of all these things, to actually
    increase as if adding an entire new California to the grid,
    even to the point that the New York Times had that as a front-
    page story. The demand is growing. Clearly, FERC is going to
    play a vital part in managing and helping with this growth. Can
    you share your views on the importance of meeting the demand
    growth and FERC's role in supporting that effort?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I actually have lost sleep a few nights worrying about how
    our country will meet the demand that it faces, and if I had
    the honor of being confirmed, I would do everything I can,
    within the powers clearly drawn by Congress for the agency, and
    that is to ensure that there is a plentiful supply of energy at
    just and reasonable rates and taking a hard look at the merits
    of every single matter before me, including the specific
    geographic market characteristics of each matter, which are
    extremely different depending on what market they are, the type
    of company that's in front of the Commission, and also how it
    interconnects to the grid. I would weigh all of those to ensure
    that FERC is mindfully encouraging connection and development
    of whatever it can.
        Senator Barrasso. Okay.
        Mr. Chairman, my time is expired. Thank you very much.
    Congratulations.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
        Senator King, you are up next.
        Senator King. Thank you very much.
        Mr. LaCerte, I am a little confused. Senator Lee asked you
    the question about the Humphrey's Executor decision, and you
    seemed to indicate that you felt that the President would--and
    should--have the power to fire a FERC Commissioner. Is that
    your position?
        Mr. LaCerte. No. Senator, thank you for the question. My
    position is that we will follow the law, and if the Supreme
    Court of the highest court in the land changes that law, then
    we will follow that, too.
        Senator King. Well, it's hard for me to imagine how the
    President having the power to fire Commissioners could--how you
    could still call the Commission independent. That, to me, is an
    ultimate compromise.
        Let's talk about the central reality that we're facing
    today, which has been mentioned several times, and that is the
    incredible increase of demand of electricity. The Chairman, in
    the last hearing that we had, indicated some data that we are
    looking at a two percent per-year increase in demand. Over ten
    years compounded, that's 30 percent. That's a staggering
    increase. The question is--there are two issues--one is the
    power availability, and the second is time--how soon can it
    come?
        Ms. Swett, what is the cheapest form of electricity
    generation today in the country?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I have not looked into that issue, but I am happy to look
    into it and answer any questions.
        Senator King. Well, I'll help you--it's wind and solar, by
    a mile, by a factor of two. The fellow who left here under
    difficult circumstances actually was correct. The cheapest
    forms of energy today are wind and solar by a longshot.
        Do you know--let's take a case study--Iowa. Any idea how
    much wind power supplies to the economy of the electricity
    supply of Iowa?
        Ms. Swett. No, sir, I don't know the specific number.
        Senator King. Sixty percent. Iowa has the 15th lowest
    electricity cost in the country, and in the past year, as we
    have already learned, average electricity prices across the
    county have gone up between six and ten percent. In Iowa, it
    has actually gone down a half a percent. The point is, you both
    have talked about being agnostic. I hope you will hold to that
    because we can't ignore the reality around us that this
    administration is extremely hostile--and that's a mild term--to
    renewable energy. And yet, and the second point, as I talked
    about price, is speed. There is no question that wind and solar
    are the quickest to deploy. Senator Heinrich mentioned if you
    wanted a new gas turbine plant today, it would be about seven
    years between permitting and the fact that there is a five-year
    wait time for a turbine. A major solar project can go online in
    a year/year-and-a-half. So, I just hope that you all will be
    true to your word today and not follow what amounts to an
    ideology that says we can't have wind and solar.
        Mr. LaCerte, will you commit to being agnostic as to energy
    sources and focus entirely on reliability, cost, and
    availability?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, the Federal Power Act requires that a
    Commissioner be neutral in those decisions, and I commit to
    following the law.
        Senator King. And I want to emphasize, again, speed is an
    issue here. This demand growth that we are seeing is going to
    be taking place in the next two, three, four, five, six years.
    We don't have two, three, four, five, six years to somehow
    conjure electrons out of the sky. Actually, we can conjure them
    out of the sky if we are talking about solar power.
        So, the second issue--we were talking about supply--is the
    grid. The grid is not prepared for this increase in demand. And
    one of the concerns I have is that the cost of expanding the
    grid to meet this demand is going to be gigantic. And we have
    to be sure that the expansion of the grid is done in a cost-
    effective way, and that's where FERC comes in, and that's where
    what I call GETs--grid-enhancing technologies--come in.
        Ms. Swett, talk to me about utilizing grid-enhancing
    technologies as opposed to simply building in the old way and
    adding this cost to the consumers.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I fully share your sentiment that we should be maximizing
    the resources that we already have, including the existing
    grid. And as someone who has represented transmission owners in
    the past, I understand the technology behind that and the
    potential benefits that can be realized from GETs, so----
        Senator King. But you also understand, if you have done
    that kind of representation, that the incentive to the
    transmission owner is to build, not do the low-cost, no-cost
    improvements. And therefore, I think FERC has to think about
    how do we incentivize the adoption of these technologies,
    because letting the market play as it normally would, the
    transmission owner has the incentive to actually build rather
    than make the grid more efficient. So I hope you will bear that
    in mind.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you, Senator. Yes, I understand that
    transmission incentives have been heavily litigated at FERC,
    and FERC has been facing those very difficult issues for many
    years. And I commit to you that I will take a hard look at any
    of those related matters if they come before me, if I am
    confirmed.
        Senator King. My time is expired, but very quickly, just, I
    hope you both, assuming you are confirmed, and that's up to the
    Committee and the Senate, take a serious look at the
    interconnection queues at the RTOs. That--remember we talked
    about time. The average wait in many RTOs around the country is
    five years. And that is unacceptable. And some of the RTOs are
    now talking about using AI in the analysis, the engineering
    analysis for interconnection. I think that has got to be part
    of the solution. Again, time is our enemy here. If we don't
    meet this demand, we are going to see some very negative
    consequences.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator King.
        Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Ms. Swett, Mr. LaCerte, congratulations on your nomination.
    Thank you for meeting with me. Welcome to your families. I
    appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions.
    I want to do some follow-up today on those questions for the
    record as well.
        We have been talking about a lot of the independence, and
    the importance of the independence of FERC, and you both
    admitted to that when we were talking--the importance of that
    independence. But I want to just confirm my understanding of
    the law and your understanding of it as well. Currently, the
    law allows FERC to promulgate significant regulations, correct?
    The law allows you to do that?
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes.
        Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Cortez Masto. And there is a process for doing
    that, correct?
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes.
        Ms. Swett. Yes.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Does the current law require review
    of those regulations by the President of the United States
    before you go through your process?
        Yes or no?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, I have to defer to the Administrative
    Procedure Act on that, and I haven't reviewed that in
    preparation for the hearing for that particular question.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Well, I can tell you that APA doesn't
    allow that. So, you know that.
        Ms. Swett, as an attorney, does the law currently in the
    APA and the rules that you follow for FERC, for regulatory
    agencies, when you are promulgating rules, there is process to
    follow, and in that legal process, does it require review of
    the President prior to moving forward?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I am unaware of any law passed by Congress that states
    that.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Because that's the crux of this issue, and that's what I
    want, somebody just to be honest with me in the law. I am an
    attorney. I read it. I know. I know there is no requirement by
    the President to review anything that we have set in law for a
    regulatory agency to do, but that's what he has put in his
    executive order, and that's my concern. There should be none of
    that oversight. Under the law, it doesn't exist. You are right,
    it's going to be before a court, and the court will make a
    determination, and that may change what we have really codified
    here in federal statute.
        So let me move on. As we have discussed today,
    manufacturing and data centers are two industries causing a
    massive surge in electricity demand across the country. In my
    home State of Nevada, it's experiencing this through new
    battery manufacturing facilities and data operation centers
    across the Silver State. We talked about that. In anticipation
    of this boom, NV Energy has taken innovative steps to utilize
    grid-enhancing technologies to reconductor lines and bolster
    the capacity and reliability of existing power lines. From each
    of your perspectives, do you think the existing grid can be
    improved and maximized by new technologies to help mitigate
    some of those costs?
        Mr. LaCerte, let me start with you.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
        I fully support maximizing technology as it relates to the
    grid. And as we continue to innovate, those grid-enhancing
    technologies will only get more efficient and more effective,
    so it has to be a continuous process. I do know that FERC, to
    date, has required an analysis on grid-enhancing technologies
    through one of their orders, and I fully support a continued
    analysis and a continued encouragement of their usage as we
    continue to evolve in these areas and we continue to find new
    and innovative ways to deliver electricity.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you, Senator. I fully share my potential
    colleague's views on this matter.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Let me just also say, and despite recent FERC orders,
    generation interconnection queues across the country are
    notoriously backlogged, and this is preventing the connection
    of new energy resources needed to meet growing power demands on
    regional grids. In fact, there was a recent report by Lawrence
    Berkeley National Lab that determined that nearly 2,300
    gigawatts of generation and storage capacity was held up in
    interconnection queues at the end of 2024. So, if confirmed,
    how do you believe FERC can best fix this backlog and address
    the growing demand?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that
    question. And quite frankly, there is too long of a line for
    almost everything, the interconnection queue being one of them.
    I know this is a multi-faceted issue, and I do know that it's a
    discussion that will have to be had with RTOs. So I welcome
    their perspective on this issue, if I am confirmed. We will
    have to work together as partners amongst the states, the RTOs,
    and the ISOs to come up with solutions to that issue and a
    number of other issues which, quite frankly, take too long, sap
    the work of the FERC career staff, and make it too hard for
    those that want to invest in our infrastructure to do so.
        So it's important. It's a bipartisan issue, I believe. And
    we need to come forward to find solutions for not only the
    interconnection queue, but the long list and long wait times to
    do business across the board.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Yes. Ms. Swett, anything else to add?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        The interconnection queue, I personally know, has been
    something that FERC has been wrangling with for many years, and
    many staff were devoted to issuing FERC's recent rulemakings
    related to that. And given that it is under appeal in several
    federal courts, I don't want to prejudge where it would come
    out. However, if I had the honor of being confirmed, I would
    certainly work very hard with my colleagues to see what FERC
    can do to solve that problem.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        My time is up. Thank you, both.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you.
        The Chairman. We will turn now to Senator Daines, who just
    paid me a profound compliment noting my uncanny resemblance to
    Mr. LaCerte, which is a huge compliment to me and a put down to
    Mr. LaCerte. You know, 20 years ago you had a lot of the women
    in the country getting their Rachel haircut, and now, we are
    all getting the LaCerte.
        Senator Daines.
        Senator Daines. If the Chairman would put away his razor
    for about a month, I think we would have a real uncanny
    resemblance there. So thank you, Chairman Lee, as well as
    Ranking Member Heinrich.
        I want to first congratulate the nominees today, and I want
    to invite you both to come out to Montana to see the issues
    that we are talking about here today. We are rich in energy
    resources in Montana, which we are very grateful for.
        FERC's mission, as stated on their website, is, and I
    quote, ``to assist consumers in obtaining reliable, safe,
    secure, and economically efficient energy.'' FERC is not and
    should not be a climate regulator. FERC is and should remain an
    independent body that focuses on safety and economics and stays
    true to the mission.
        My first question is for both Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte,
    and it has been the same for many of the FERC nominees that
    have come before this Committee over the past several years.
    It's a yes or no question. Do you agree that FERC's primary
    mission is to be an economic and safety regulator?
        I will start with Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        Yes, I absolutely agree that FERC is an economic regulator,
    primarily.
        Senator Daines. Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Daines. Will you commit to review each decision
    that comes before you at the Commission fairly, impartially,
    and through the lens of providing affordable, reliable, and
    safe energy?
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, I make that commitment
    wholeheartedly.
        Senator Daines. Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator, absolutely.
        Senator Daines. Thank you.
        I want to pivot and talk a bit about hydropower permitting
    reform. Hydropower provides the second largest share of
    electricity generation in Montana. It's a wonderful source of
    renewable energy and baseload power and very affordable and
    reliable power. Many of the existing dams are currently
    undergoing relicensing. Unfortunately, the existing process is
    broken, and it can take nearly a decade--a decade--to relicense
    a hydropower dam that has been operating for four decades. I
    have worked long and hard in a very bipartisan way in this
    Committee to make changes to that process. This includes modest
    changes to speed up the process, and focus it on the actual
    effects of the project moving forward instead of a wish list of
    mandatory conditions from agencies and outside stakeholders.
        A question for Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte. Do you agree that
    we need to speed up licensing and relicensing for hydropower in
    order to continue to grow and maintain renewable baseload
    sources?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        Given the unprecedented demand that we are facing, getting
    every single molecule of electricity on the grid is of
    paramount importance, and that includes hydro, and the
    wonderful resource it is, particularly for your state. And I
    understand that these hydro license owners are facing
    diminishing resources and it is very difficult for them, in
    general, to operate in many cases. And I am committed to doing
    whatever I can, if I have the honor of being confirmed, to
    taking a hard look at FERC's piece of the relicensing process,
    although I understand there are many players there, as you
    mentioned--states and several federal agencies. So, within the
    powers that Congress grants the agency, I commit to you that I
    will take a hard look at it, if I am confirmed, with my
    colleagues to see what we can do to be more efficient for your
    license owners.
        Senator Daines. Thank you.
        Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you.
        I first want to acknowledge that hydro is an important
    component of our energy mix, and we need to do a better job of
    not only reforming the licensing for hydro, but across the
    board. It takes too long to do business with our government. It
    takes too long to invest in our infrastructure. And we need to
    do a better job everywhere, and first, and also I want to
    confirm for the record here that I accept your invitation to
    come to Montana.
        Senator Daines. All right, thank you. It could involve a
    fly rod, speaking of hydropower.
        Mr. LaCerte. I will do whatever it takes, Senator.
        Senator Daines. All right, thank you.
        Well, thank you. And let me just close with this brief
    statement. And Ms. Swett, you just mentioned the demands and
    needs that we have going forward here in terms of energy in our
    country. If we are going to meet demand, we simply need more of
    virtually every energy source. We simply need to be building
    more, which includes permitting more and trying to accelerate
    getting, as you said, more of these electrons on the grid--more
    natural gas, more coal, more hydropower, more nuclear, more
    geothermal, more wind, more solar. We need more electrons.
        I encourage the nominees to keep that in the back--and I
    might argue the front--of your minds when you are making
    decisions on the future of U.S. energy policy. So thank you for
    being before this Committee today and for your willingness to
    serve in these very important roles for our great country.
        The Chairman. Thanks, Senator Daines.
        Senator Padilla.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and again, welcome
    to both of the nominees. I appreciate the opportunity to raise
    some questions and issues with you.
        First, as we all know, FERC is critically important. It
    serves as a central regulator for America's interstate energy
    system, shaping everything from grid reliability to our monthly
    bills, as well as the pace of project deployment. And all this
    work is made possible not just by the Commissioners but by the
    professional staff. So my first question for both of you is a
    yes or no question. Do you agree that the FERC staff is
    critical to the operations and success of FERC?
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question. I
    absolutely agree with that premise.
        Senator Padilla. Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes, Senator, FERC will not be successful
    without the outstanding career staff that are there.
        Senator Padilla. I very much appreciate your answers, and
    the reason I lead with that is because, as I imagine you are
    aware, in February of this year, President Trump issued an
    executive order requiring that agency heads undertake
    preparations to initiate large-scale reductions in force at
    their respective agencies. So, given your acknowledgement that
    the staff at FERC is critical to its mission success, will you
    commit to protecting FERC staff from directed reductions in
    force, whether they come from the President, whether they come
    from DOGE, or anybody else at the White House?
        Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for the question. I don't foresee a
    large-scale reduction in force at FERC. The mission of FERC is
    directly in line with the President's management agenda, and I
    don't foresee anyone asking that of FERC.
        Senator Padilla. Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. As someone
    who worked alongside FERC staff myself, I know how hard they
    work, how mission-driven they are, how technically strong and
    legally strong they are, and the value of each employee there.
        Senator Padilla. Okay, I'm not getting a clear ``yes, I'm
    going to go to bat for the professional staff,'' and you may
    not foresee a directed reduction in staff, but we have seen it
    across the administration for months and months and months now,
    so yes or no, are you going to go to bat for maintaining
    staffing levels?
        Mr. LaCerte. Yes.
        Senator Padilla. Yes or no, Ms. Swett?
        Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.
        The second area--I wanted to just echo a concern that
    Senator Heinrich has raised a couple of times, and Senator
    King, for that matter, respecting the independence of FERC and
    how critical that independence is for the job that it does.
        Ms. Swett, I am satisfied with the answer you have given
    earlier, but Mr. LaCerte, you kind of gave a little bit of a
    caveat, referencing the Supreme Court and whether they would
    change anything in terms of the President's ability to hire or
    fire commissioners. What is your commitment to maintaining the
    independence of FERC regardless of the outcome of any case
    against the Supreme Court?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, I will do the utmost of my ability
    under the law to maintain the independence of FERC, 100
    percent.
        Senator Padilla. Okay, because I just can't imagine, and
    again, this is not hypothetical--we have seen the President
    threaten it and actually follow up on those threats in agency
    after agency, both those directly under his jurisdiction and
    authorities, and many of those that are not. So that is a
    significant concern.
        The last area I do want to bring up is transmission and
    generation. Obviously, it's critical for fulfilling our growing
    needs as a country and as an economy. What we have seen since
    last Congress is continued delays and consistent projections of
    load growth as well as increasing energy cost. That's the data
    before us at this moment. So, what specific steps should FERC
    take to accelerate the interconnection queue processing,
    particularly for transmission-level projects. I know Senator
    Cortez Masto raised this, but I want to be more specific and
    precise here. Specific proposals or ideas?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.
        First, I would like to acknowledge that we need more
    transmission. That's beyond debate. I think that to meet the
    coming needs, I have seen some of the growth projections and I
    have seen some of the need projections, and I certainly
    understand where you are coming from on that. So transmission
    is going to be part and parcel to maintaining that growth and
    sustaining that growth over the long term, but it's important
    to note also that we need to do so while protecting the
    ratepayers. It needs to be an important balance. As I noted in
    my opening, that needs to be done decision by decision and
    brick by brick. That's the way policy is implemented at FERC,
    and that is my commitment to you, if I am confirmed.
        Senator Padilla. So one follow-up comment and one follow-up
    question to that, and then, of course, Ms. Swett, I will ask
    you to chime in.
        One, there are proposals being kicked around, particularly
    as we have gone through our permitting reform negotiations here
    at this Committee level--standardized timelines and penalties
    for transmission owners who fail to meet those deadlines is
    certainly one balanced carrot-and-stick approach to move the
    ball forward, but the follow-up question, and my final question
    at this moment is, do you commit to doing that job and meeting
    those objectives regardless of resource type if we are in such
    need of additional energy on the grid? I know this
    administration is a big fan of fossil fuels, but electrons are
    electrons, whether they are natural gas plants that are
    generating that electricity or whether it is geothermal
    generating the electricity. We have talked about hydro in this
    hearing. I want an equal commitment to solar projects, to wind
    projects, whether it's onshore or offshore.
        Yes or no, Mr. LaCerte and Ms. Swett?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator.
        The Federal Power Act requires that a FERC Commissioner be
    neutral in such a thing, so I am going to follow the law and I
    am going to maintain that neutrality.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you.
        Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I echo my
    colleague's sentiments here that FERC cannot unduly
    discriminate against any type of generation.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you very much.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. We will now turn to the former Governor of
    North Dakota and North Dakota's current Senior Senator, Senator
    John Hoeven.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to both of
    you for being here, I appreciate it very much.
        The first question I have for both of you is that coal
    provides an incredible amount of the baseload power generation
    in the country. Certainly, in our area, for example, North
    Dakota, two of our regional grid operators, MISO and SPP both
    get a lot of their baseload from coal-fired electric plants we
    have in our state. And we have got to have more baseload for
    the stability of the grid writ large. So, if confirmed--and I
    will start with you, Ms. Swett and then Mr. LaCerte--if
    confirmed, how would you approach the challenge of new demand
    growth, recognizing that we need baseload for the stability of
    the grid to have that available 24/7?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for your question, Senator, and I
    really appreciated the time to meet with you yesterday.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
        Ms. Swett. If I have the honor of being confirmed, then I
    believe that ensuring that the FERC jurisdictional markets are
    sending accurate price signals will value all types of
    generation, including the value of baseload. If we can do
    whatever FERC can in its jurisdiction to ensure that those
    markets are well functioning, then I am committed to that goal,
    if I am confirmed.
        Senator Hoeven. Well, I agree with that, and you have to
    send the right market signals. Do you have thoughts on how you
    do that? In other words, if you take two projects, and one is
    just continuing to add intermittent energy to the grid, which
    is creating less stability versus adding more baseload and you
    give them the exact same pricing signal, then you're not
    getting the more baseload that we need. So, do you have some
    thoughts on how to do that?
        Ms. Swett. Yes, Senator, I do have thoughts after working
    on this for the Chairman, who I served under during my time at
    FERC. Every market is struggling with different resource
    adequacy issues and also trying to integrate the states'
    decisions that are in those markets on their generation mix and
    their portfolios, which is fully within their jurisdiction
    under the law. And so, the best thing that FERC can do is take
    all of the inputs that it gets from those states and their
    generation choices and every generator before it and the rates
    that it is considering to ensure that just and reasonable rates
    are achieved for the American people under the Federal Power
    Act.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay, thank you.
        Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I enjoyed our conversation
    in your office this week.
        Senator Hoeven. Appreciate it.
        Mr. LaCerte. You know, it's important that we note that
    coal is a vital component of our energy mix and the value that
    it gives to baseload power. And I have seen the studies. I have
    seen the supply and demand coming out of some of the RTOs, and
    we are going to need more reliable baseload power moving
    forward, and coal certainly plays an important component in
    that mix, absolutely.
        Senator Hoeven. Yeah, and in fact, as far as developing
    more--and in our state, we have it all. I mean, we have
    biofuels, we have wind, we have solar, we have a lot of oil and
    gas, we have coal. We have it all. We do it all. I mean, we
    don't just say all-of-the-above, we actually do it, okay, and
    you know, the different forms of power have their role. But
    even to put more intermittent on, we are going to have to have
    more baseload or it doesn't work, right? Would you agree with
    that?
        Mr. LaCerte. Absolutely.
        Senator Hoeven. Yeah.
        Talk, each of you, a little bit, and again, to follow up
    our conversation, the other challenge we have is, as we are
    moving energy to market--and we see that because we are in
    North Dakota--we move a lot of energy to, like, a 12-state
    region. So, transmission lines, pipelines, all those kinds of
    things, how do we build those projects, but at the same time,
    make sure that we protect states' rights and property rights?
    How do we, you know, what are your ideas in that regard?
        And Ms. Swett, we will start with you again.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I agree that building big transmission projects is
    essential to our reliability as a nation, and I am committed to
    doing whatever FERC can to ensure that its part encourages
    infrastructure development. That said, also, if I am confirmed,
    I will faithfully execute the laws as passed by Congress, and
    FERC does not have siting authority over transmission. It only
    has a very small portion of the law for eminent domain within a
    DOE-designated corridor. And so, whatever the guidance of
    Congress is on that matter, I will faithfully execute, if the
    law is changed as well.
        Senator Hoeven. But certainly, sensitive to protecting
    private property rights?
        Ms. Swett. Yes, absolutely, Senator. I am very aware that
    landowner rights are--they are very important, very personal,
    and I would take a hard look at them in any matter before me,
    if I am confirmed.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
        Mr. LaCerte.
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you, I appreciate that
    question. You know, as a former state cabinet secretary, I
    certainly appreciate the value of states' rights, and you know,
    the lack of federal encroachment upon those rights. It's
    important to me. I know we discussed that in your office the
    other day. You know, it's important also to note, as a South
    Louisianan, you know, it's important that we take into account
    landowners' rights when we are permitting and we are planning
    our pipelines and our transmission. And I think, you know, it's
    definitely an important factor within those particular realms.
        Senator Hoeven. Yes. Again, thanks to both of you,
    appreciate it very much.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
        We will turn next to Senator Gallego.
        Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman Lee and Ranking Member
    Heinrich, and thank you to our witnesses for your attendance
    today.
        Energy affordability and reliability is extremely important
    in Arizona, particularly, of course, to stay cool. Arizonans
    have to shell out an extra $100 compared to their winter
    electric bills per month, which is the highest additional cost
    anywhere in this country. In addition, we do have growth of
    data warehouses, as well as great chip manufacturing. So, as
    the load growth demand rises, Arizonans deserve federal leaders
    that will ensure that their energy cost does not get more
    expensive, and of course, dangerously less reliable.
        I first want to echo some of the concerns of my colleagues
    around FERC's independence--some of that, I think, we have been
    wary to see, not just with FERC, but other independent
    committees that have slowly, slowly, I think, been crept into
    by this administration, so I want to make sure that you
    continue to do that.
        Mr. LaCerte, especially in Arizona summers, our energy grid
    faces very, very high demand. In 2023, a study was actually
    done that a multi-day blackout, which has happened in other
    states, could cause nearly half the city to require emergency
    department care and could potentially kill thousands of
    Arizonans and Phoenicians. And we are certainly not the only
    state that is dealing with extreme heat and other weather
    disasters. How will you partner with public utility regulators
    to identify and respond to emerging reliability challenges
    across the country?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I first want to note,
    thank you for your service. You know, my grandfather is buried
    in the Veterans' Cemetery in Chandler, Arizona.
        Senator Gallego. Oh, excellent.
        Mr. LaCerte. I wanted to note that and thank you for that,
    but you are absolutely correct, the impact of reliability on
    our systems is one of public health. It's important to note,
    especially in your home State of Arizona, air conditioning
    isn't just a nicety, it's a necessity. I certainly understand
    that. And it just goes back to one of my earlier comments,
    which is that we need to return FERC's decision-making to where
    every question we need to ask is, will this decision make our
    grid more reliable and more resilient and will it make the grid
    more affordable? And if the answer to that is no, then we
    should question why we are doing it. I think we need to pare
    back down to the baseline statute within the Federal Power Act.
    We need to have that be our guiding light, our home base, in
    everything that we do within FERC.
        Senator Gallego. Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I, given my time at FERC, understand that the Western
    Interconnection is both geographically and scientifically
    different, has different components. Your load centers in the
    West are further apart. The bulk power grid also has issues
    that the Eastern Interconnection doesn't have. And all of those
    factors would be components that are required by a sitting FERC
    Commissioner's analysis of what would be a just and reasonable
    rate in the matters before them. So, if I am confirmed, then I
    will honor the law and look at every single fact as it pertains
    to your state and of course every other state.
        Senator Gallego. One of the areas that is very important in
    Arizona--we have 22 federally recognized tribes, some of the
    largest representation in the country. They are fairly far
    displaced--hard to get to, in terms of energy and connection
    for those tribes, which creates problems when it comes to
    economic growth and when it comes to even any type of general
    welfare. And so, one of the things that FERC's website talks
    about is the agency's commitment to engaging with tribes and
    upholding the trust responsibility in the decision-making
    process. And you will see that some of these tribal governments
    want to work with FERC or with other government agencies, but
    sometimes they're not treated with the respect that they are
    due through the trust responsibility. And so, as the agency
    regulates--intermission and transmission and gas projects,
    first decisions to impact tribal energy and affordability and
    reliability will certainly matter to them.
        So, will you commit to maintaining FERC's tribal liaison
    and gas tribal coordinator roles? And why that matters for
    Arizonans is because if you see some of the routes where we can
    bring in new pipelines, and new lines in general, it's going to
    have to cross through a lot of tribal lands. And it's easier if
    you are working with them ahead of time and through tribal
    consultation in a more of a dedicated manner than not.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you for your question, Senator.
        I agree that we could do a better job of working with our
    partners. That includes state public service commissions. That
    includes RTOs. That includes Indian tribes. The Native American
    tribes are an important component of our partnerships. And you
    made mention, you know, you need to work with these leaders in
    order to develop strategies and solutions that work, and you
    need to do that over a longer term. You know, I, myself, am
    from South Louisiana. I grew up adjacent to the Pointe-au-Chien
    Indian tribe. I dealt with the Houma tribe, the Choctaws, and I
    am very familiar from my background in Louisiana working with
    tribal leaders.
        I think that importance is known across the Federal
    Government, but especially within FERC itself.
        Senator Gallego. And more specifically, I am asking, are
    you maintaining the tribal liaison positions for both of you?
    It's just a yes or no.
        Mr. LaCerte. I am not seated yet. I am not familiar with
    the tribal liaison seating, but I certainly support the
    mission.
        Senator Gallego. Ms. Swett.
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator. I agree
    with the premise that every voice must be heard, and FERC's
    statutory role under NEPA is to consider everything on the
    record, and that includes tribal voices if they are filed in a
    project record that is before FERC. So, I commit to you that I
    would take a hard look at all of that information, and given
    that, like my colleague, I am not seated at FERC right now, I
    am not familiar with what the program is regarding tribal
    liaisons, but I will absolutely take a hard look at that, if I
    am confirmed.
        Senator Gallego. Thank you. I yield back.
        Senator King. Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Yes, go ahead, Senator King.
        Senator King. Just one quick follow-up on the technology we
    haven't talked about, which is batteries. And there is a
    discussion about baseload power, and, of course, renewables
    plus batteries is baseload, but batteries can also have an
    important role to play in transmission.
        Ms. Swett, can you discuss that, in stabilizing the grid?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        I have not looked into the battery engineering components
    as they relate to the grid, but I would absolutely be open to
    any type of technology that would stabilize or enhance our
    existing grid, if I had the honor of being confirmed.
        Senator King. Mr. LaCerte, thoughts on batteries?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, Senator. I agree in premise that
    batteries could be an important component of increasing the
    reliability of baseload. I think as our technologies evolve,
    those batteries will become more and more efficient and
    effective, and I think it definitely warrants continued
    monitoring and usage, and is something that should be reviewed
    by FERC.
        Senator King. Yeah, the development is occurring very
    rapidly in terms of the technology, the cost, and the
    availability that batteries can provide in order to buffer,
    whether it's renewables or any other problems that may be
    encountered on the grid. So, I hope that's something you will
    have in the back of your mind in terms of your regulatory
    authority. Batteries, I believe, are going to become a much
    bigger part of the grid than they are today, and that's going
    to be happening fast. Thank you very much.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Senator Hickenlooper.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to both
    of you for being willing to subject yourselves to the questions
    and for your public service.
        Ms. Swett, let me start with you. And as we discussed
    yesterday, thank you both for spending some time and being
    willing to answer any question, which I appreciate. As we
    discussed, Ms. Swett, your experience focuses really on oil and
    gas. And as you know, FERC's authority goes well beyond oil and
    gas, as we discussed to a certain extent. As I'm sure you could
    feel from the direction of my questions yesterday, regional
    transmission planning and cost allocation electricity markets
    are essential to some of its most fundamental statutory
    responsibility. And as we talked about--the reliability and the
    affordability, I think, are the two bulwarks.
        Actually, I can ask both of you this question. Unlike most
    other places in the world, our grid is regionalized, and it
    doesn't operate under a unified policy. Therefore, the
    oversight of FERC is essential. So I guess the question would
    be, how can you work to ensure the electric reliability and
    affordability through the regional transmission planning and
    the--let's just call it the market oversight--the electricity
    market oversight?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator, and I
    really enjoyed the time speaking with you yesterday. I actually
    spent over half my career working for electric utilities and
    transmission owners. And given my experience with them, I am
    very aware of the competing interests that go into regional
    transmission planning, the decisions on the physical grid, also
    cost allocation planning, taking into account congestion points
    and all the science that goes behind it. And FERC has a very
    difficult role as the federal agency tasked with ensuring that
    all of that is combined into a just and reasonable rate.
        I am confident that if we really put our heads to it, we
    can figure out a solution that will ensure that American
    consumers pay a just and reasonable rate, given all of the
    factors in front of FERC.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great.
        Mr. LaCerte, do you want to add anything to that?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, thank you. And I would like to note,
    that's the trillion-dollar question.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. LaCerte. It's one which is not going to be solved here
    in two minutes, but I can tell you that it's something that
    requires very intensive discussion with all the stakeholders at
    the table, and it's a multi-faceted issue, and it's definitely
    a challenge facing FERC, today and tomorrow.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate that.
        And Mr. LaCerte, I will stick with you with this question,
    which we discussed a little bit yesterday, but I thought about
    it more. You know, interregional transmission helps deliver the
    lowest-cost energy sources from where they are generated to
    where electricity is needed, and oftentimes that's reflected in
    the cost, you know, where it's more valuable. This Committee
    recently had a whole hearing looking at how do we meet demand
    in an efficient way, and we heard that transmission is going to
    be clearly needed to address the AI boom--what's called, for
    lack of a better term, an AI boom.
        So, do you agree that transmission across state lines
    increases the reliability of the grid? In other words, as we
    cross state lines, is that one of the basic methods to increase
    reliability?
        Mr. LaCerte. Yeah, I would agree, Senator, that interstate
    transmission, when properly planned and executed, will increase
    the reliability.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great.
        And then, are there reforms, in terms of how do we do that?
    Again, we touched on this a little bit yesterday. What are the
    reforms we need to make sure that we do that build-out in the
    appropriate way?
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you, and I know we spent some time
    talking about this yesterday in your office. I think we need to
    make it easier to do business with the Federal Government, and
    by reducing some of the barriers to entry, by reducing some of
    the exclusion of the mid and smaller companies that can do
    business with the company, we are going to invite more
    investors to the table to invest in our grid, invest in our
    infrastructure. And that's going to pay dividends in both the
    reliability and the affordability of our energy systems.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Right. And is it your sense that we
    are going to need to expand our transmission capacity in order
    to address the load growth, given AI and all the other things
    that are coming?
        Mr. LaCerte. Senator, it only makes sense that increased
    load growth will require increased transmission, yes.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Yeah, I think that's basic.
        Ms. Swett, do you want to add anything to that, either of
    those?
        Ms. Swett. Thank you for the question, Senator.
        As a general premise--and this matter is under litigation
    in various stages--however, as a general premise, increasing
    the amount of transmission available increases the geographic
    availability of new generation to join the grid. As you know,
    high-population load centers are not good places to build
    increased generation that we need. And if we have more
    accessibility across state lines, like you are proposing, then
    that means that there is more flexibility for generators to use
    the specific characteristics of the land around them, wherever
    that may make sense for it to be per the state's decisions.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Exactly. I could not ask for--we
    agree.
        Anyway, I am out of time, as always. Thank you both, again,
    for your willingness to serve the country.
        Mr. LaCerte. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Okay, as we are wrapping up, I just want to
    hit a couple things.
        First of all, once you are confirmed, assuming you are
    confirmed, I look forward to working with both of you on
    prioritizing permitting reform. Senator Barrasso and others
    have referred to that effort today, and it's a priority. I look
    forward to working with both of you on that, as FERC has an
    important role in the permitting process for the areas we have
    discussed.
        I also wanted to clarify, since we have had some discussion
    surrounding the APA, I want to clarify that while the APA
    doesn't require presidential reviews on draft rules, there is
    also nothing in there prohibiting it.
        In any event, I want to thank both witnesses, both
    nominees, Ms. Swett and Mr. LaCerte, for being here, for your
    families, for the members who have participated and their
    cooperation this morning in this hearing.
        Questions for the record for the hearing are due by 6:00
    p.m. this evening, September 4th.
        And on behalf of the Committee, I congratulate both
    nominees and look forward to working with each of you.
        The hearing stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:58 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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