[Senate Hearing 119-190]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 119-190

                           A GRATEFUL NATION:
               MAXIMIZING VETERANS' SUCCESS AFTER SERVICE

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            NOVEMBER 5, 2025

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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                 SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
                     
John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut, 
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New 
Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                     Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                     Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                     David Shearman, Staff Director
                Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                            November 5, 2025

                                SENATORS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     1
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from 
  Connecticut....................................................     2
Hon. Tim Sheehy, U.S. Senator from Montana.......................    18
Hon. Patty Murray, U.S. Senator from Washington..................    20
Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    22
Hon. Bill Cassidy, U.S. Senator from Louisiana...................    24
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    26
Hon. Elissa Slotkin, U.S. Senator from Michigan..................    28
Hon. Jim Banks, U.S. Senator from Indiana........................    30

                               WITNESSES

Jason Galui, Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Army (Ret.), Director, 
  Veterans and Military Families, George W. Bush Institute.......     4

Mike Hutchings, Chief Executive Officer, Combined Arms...........     5

Barbara E. Carson, Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Air Force Reserve, 
  Managing Director of Programs and Services, D'Aniello Institute 
  for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......     7

Jared Lyon, National President and Chief Executive Officer, 
  Student Veterans of America....................................     9

Elizabeth O'Brien, Senior Vice President, Hiring Our Heroes, U.S. 
  Chamber of Commerce Foundation.................................    11

Holly Hermes, Liaison for Veteran and Military Affairs, Yale 
  University.....................................................    12

                                APPENDIX
                          Prepared Statements

Jason Galui, Lieutenant Colonel, U.S. Army (Ret.), Director, 
  Veterans and Military Families, George W. Bush Institute.......    45

Mike Hutchings, Chief Executive Officer, Combined Arms...........    52

Barbara E. Carson, Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Air Force Reserve, 
  Managing Director of Programs and Services, D'Aniello Institute 
  for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......    56

Jared Lyon, National President and Chief Executive Officer, 
  Student Veterans of America....................................    64

Elizabeth O'Brien, Senior Vice President, Hiring Our Heroes, U.S. 
  Chamber of Commerce Foundation.................................    72

Holly Hermes, Liaison for Veteran and Military Affairs, Yale 
  University.....................................................    84

                        Questions for the Record

George W. Bush Institute response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Bill Cassidy..............................................    91
  Hon. Mazie K. Hirono...........................................    96

Combined Arms response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Mazie K. Hirono...........................................   102

D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families response 
  to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Mazie K. Hirono...........................................   105

Student Veterans of America response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Marsha Blackburn..........................................   110

                       Statements for the Record

50strong, Kandi Tillman, Co-Founder..............................   115

American Corporate Partners (ACP), Sidney E. Goodfriend, Founder 
  and Chairman...................................................   131

American Veterans (AMVETS), Paul Shipley, National Commander.....   138

Pew Research Center..............................................   146

RAND, Carrie M. Farmer, Ph.D., Co-Director, RAND Epstein Family 
  Veterans Policy Research Institute.............................   192

Western Governors' Association, Jack Waldorf, Executive Director.   205

                       Submissions for the Record

Senator Jerry Moran

  ``2025 Veterans Civic Health Index''...........................   213

  ``The Military and Veterans Community Index 2025: Measuring 
    Giving to Military- and Veteran-Serving Organizations''......   249

  ``Thriving Beyond Service
  Strategic Philanthropy for the Military-To-Civilian 
    Transition''.................................................   285

Senator Richard Blumenthal

  Stars and Stripes article ``More than 75,000 students affected 
    by VA payment delays for education benefits''................   352

  Military Times article ``VA tech glitch halts GI Bill payments 
    to thousands, advocates say''................................   355
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

 
                           A GRATEFUL NATION:
               MAXIMIZING VETERANS' SUCCESS AFTER SERVICE

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2025

                                       U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:03 p.m., in 
Room SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

    Present: Senators Moran, Boozman, Cassidy, Blackburn, 
Banks, Sheehy, Blumenthal, Murray, Hassan, King, and Slotkin.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
               CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Chairman Moran. Good afternoon. The Committee will come to 
order. I was looking at my opening statement with the intention 
of shortening it, but I was discovering that the length of time 
it was taking me to shorten the statement was utilizing up the 
time that I would've saved.
    But I'm delighted that you're here. This is a bit of a 
different hearing than this Committee has conducted in recent 
past, and I'm very interested in what each of our witnesses 
have to say and what conversations it may generate.
    The organizations that support veterans are broad, often 
led by other veterans and their families. We often hear from 
the Department of Veterans Affairs and the programs and 
opportunities they provide to serve our Nation's veterans. And 
today the focus is on the non-veteran administration side of 
how we care for those that served our Nation.
    Each veteran is a significant asset for our country, hugely 
important to their families and to their community in which 
they live, and ultimately to the Nation. They demonstrated that 
in their service. And every veteran is unique and different and 
their needs are different, one from another.
    And so, what has arisen over a period of time in our 
country is often other veterans, but certainly other citizens 
who rise to the occasion to try to make sure that veterans 
needs are being met. And I want to thank those who do that 
every day. Individuals in Kansas and organizations in Kansas, 
but across the country who see the needs of those who served 
are cared for.
    Today's hearing recognizes that veterans are civic assets 
and that their success after service is in our national 
interest. Much of the support available to veterans comes from 
non-governmental community resources, and today we're 
discussing how those resources support veterans' success and 
can better integrate with veteran programs such as what the 
Department of Veterans Affairs provides.
    I'll introduce the witnesses after. I now turn to the 
Ranking Member for his opening statement.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
         RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
holding this hearing and thank you to all of our witnesses, an 
unusually large panel, but we appreciate every one of you.
    I want to thank particularly Holly Hermes, who is Yale 
University's Liaison for Military Families and Veterans. This 
office has enabled two of my sons who have attended Yale Law 
School to go there with more aid and service and companionship 
than they would've otherwise won. Marine Corps veteran who 
served in Afghanistan, the other, a Navy SEAL veteran who 
actually is there right now. I hope he's in class.
    I am really honored to serve as Ranking Member on this 
Committee along with very distinguished colleagues. And let me 
come right to the point. We're here because we need to assure 
veterans that they have the information and services they need 
when they go from military service to civilian life, often 
continuing to serve our country.
    And I know about this transition because of my two sons, 
and countless others whom I have watched and seen and sought to 
mentor as they go through this sometimes very, very difficult 
transition period when they need help from a VSO in filing a 
disability claim or how best to use their earned education 
benefits, connect with local employers or access assistance 
when they need it most.
    And unfortunately, this Administration has increased the 
difficulty of our veterans, not only in transitioning, but in 
living through civilian life after they leave the military.
    All Americans are struggling with the increased costs of 
rent, food, electricity, and yes, healthcare, most especially 
healthcare insurance, which is why we as Democrats are standing 
firm, that there has to be an extension of healthcare insurance 
tax credits or subsidies, past the end of the year.
    And the Administration, rather than curbing costs for the 
average American worker, including veterans, is prioritizing 
historic cuts, and I mean unprecedented cuts in SNAP, Medicaid 
and healthcare coverage.
    Americans often don't appreciate that veterans use these 
programs and depend on them. More than 1.2 million veteran 
households use SNAP. Yet this Administration refuses to fully 
fund the program despite orders from courts that they do so. 
There's no equivalent service like SNAP through the VA or any 
other federal program to serve as a safety net. Meaning these 
cuts have devastating impacts on veterans and their families.
    And at the same time, reductions in access to private 
health insurance, Medicaid, and funding for community health 
services, we all know about the clinics that exist in 
communities with federal support, they will result in veterans 
relying more on the VA for their healthcare and benefits. 
Here's the startling number, up to 1.75 million veterans and 
active-duty service member households rely on Medicaid. Let me 
just give you that again, 1.75 million veterans and their 
households rely on Medicaid, and that's nearly one in 10 
veterans under the age of 65.
    Forty percent of them rely on Medicaid as their sole 
coverage, often due to ineligibility for Medicare or VA 
healthcare. Of the 10.3 million individuals who are likely to 
lose Medicaid coverage because of the ``Great Big Beautiful 
Bill'' which I call the ``Great Big Blatant Betrayal'', 267,000 
are veterans. And meanwhile, many veterans who escape the 
impacts of Medicaid cuts will instead lose their healthcare 
access when ACA premium tax credits expire, making their 
healthcare coverage unaffordable.
    Our veterans are suffering just as Americans are from 
looking at the exchanges and the premium on open enrollment, as 
we speak right now, at their kitchen tables, trying to figure 
out how they're going to afford health insurance. And they 
can't do it because premiums are doubling and tripling.
    Where are these veterans going to go? If eligible, they'll 
go to the VA and we'll see a dramatically increased reliance on 
VA healthcare, stretching the capacities of our docs, our 
nurses, our VA facilities generally, which are already 
suffering from cuts and furloughs unnecessarily imposed by this 
Administration.
    Their increased reliance will come on the heels of 
catastrophic and unnecessary cuts to VA's workforce and 
resources by Secretary Collins. Cuts that have already eroded 
the department's ability to support the needs of veterans and 
according to the department's actuarial firm, for every 1 
percent of increased reliance on VA healthcare, VA can expect 
its cost to increase by 2.6 billion, 1 percent, 2.6 billion. 
They don't have the money. Those costs have not been accounted 
for in the department's funding requests or factored into 
Secretary Collins plans for further cuts in VA resources.
    If veterans are not eligible for VA care, there's a real 
fear that they will simply lose access to healthcare 
completely. Our veterans losing access to healthcare seems 
unacceptable to me, but it's going to happen. Given the 
healthcare and cost of living crises in this country, the 
services provided by the groups here today are more critical 
than ever before, so I want to just thank you, every one of you 
and your organizations for what you do.
    I look forward to hearing your insights and recommendations 
on how we can make sure that veterans get what they need, what 
they deserve, what we have promised them. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. I now want 
to introduce to the Committee those who are testifying today, 
the first panels--the first witness panel is Colonel Jason 
Galui, the Director of Veteran and Military Families of the 
George W. Bush Institute; Mr. Mike Hutchings, Chief Executive 
Officer, Combined Arms; Colonel Barbara Carson, Managing 
Director of Programs and Services at D'Aniello Institute for 
Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University; Mr. 
Jared Lyon, the National President and Chief Executive Officer 
of Student Veterans of America; Ms. Elizabeth O'Brien, Senior 
Vice President of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Foundations for 
Hiring Our Heroes; and Ms. Holly Hermes, Yale University 
Liaison for Veterans and Military Affairs.
    Again, thank you all for being here, and Colonel, I now 
recognize you for your testimony.

STATEMENT OF JASON GALUI, LIEUTENANT COLONEL, U.S. ARMY (RET.), 
   DIRECTOR, VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES, GEORGE W. BUSH 
                           INSTITUTE

    Colonel Galui. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Moran, 
Ranking Member Blumenthal, and Members of the Committee, thank 
you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the 
George W. Bush Institute. I'm Jason Galui, the Director of the 
Bush Institute's Veterans and Military Families team.
    At the Bush Institute, we believe that the Nation has a 
duty to empower veterans and their families to thrive beyond 
the uniform, so that we can, in the words of President George 
W. Bush, ``Unleash the potential of a generation of 
resourceful, determined, and experienced leaders.''
    Veterans can be strong civic assets who inspire others to 
achieve common goals for a shared purpose. Veterans tend to 
have good character, competence, and commitment, and thus can 
earn the trust of--and lead--their fellow Americans. General 
Dwight D. Eisenhower, as he approached his own retirement from 
the U.S. Army, wrote that he ``faced a monumental career choice 
with absolutely no experience in making career choices.''
    If soon-to-be President Eisenhower was concerned about his 
transition, then we must expect that many transitioning service 
members will be anxious about theirs. Veterans and their 
families, like everyone else in society, thrive when they are 
mentally and physically healthy, are well-informed and prepared 
for navigating civilian life, and can make meaningful 
contributions to their new communities.
    Therefore, at the Bush Institute, we focus on veteran 
health and well-being, education, and employment. Thanks to 
dedicated public and private efforts, there are tremendous 
resources available for veterans and their families. However, 
bureaucratic fragmentation and complex navigation can cloud the 
learning about and accessing these resources.
    Fortunately, the unique entrepreneurial spirit of the 
American people complements federal efforts to reintegrate 
veterans and their families back into American civilian 
society. The Veteran Wellness Alliance (VWA) is one example of 
how public and private partners can achieve the best outcomes 
for veterans and their families.
    Led by the Bush Institute, the VWA is a collaborative 
network of mental and brain healthcare clinical providers, 
including the VA, and veteran peer networks that together 
tackle the effects of the invisible wounds of war.
    In 2021, the VWA launched Check-In, an innovative solution 
that connects veterans, service members, and their families, 
caregivers, and survivors to high quality mental and brain 
healthcare regardless of service era and regardless of 
characterization of service discharge. Check-In's novelty was 
its creation of a trusted online ``easy button'' that peer 
networks could provide to their members.
    Leveraging the power of innovation and technology, Check-In 
solved the navigational and bureaucratic challenges associated 
with searching for and connecting with the right type of care. 
Given the many resources available, it can be paralyzing to 
learn which resource is most appropriate to address the 
challenge at hand. Check-In eliminates or at least reduces the 
possibility of such paralysis with respect to mental and brain 
healthcare.
    The VWA is a strong model for how public and private actors 
can partner to achieve sustained success after service for 
veterans and their families. Serving beyond the uniform, 
forming genuine connections, and making meaningful 
contributions are necessary components for sustained success.
    Discovering such opportunities is less clear in civilian 
life than it is while in service, which can make the military-
to-civilian transition challenging. The sooner a veteran can 
rediscover their purpose, their connections, and their 
contributions, the more likely they and their family will 
thrive in civilian life.
    It is not unreasonable to ask a transitioning service 
member, ``what do you want to do when you get out of the 
military? '' But that's an incomplete question. What a veteran 
wants to do might not match what the civilian world needs from 
that veteran. A more complete question a veteran could ask 
themselves is, ``what do I have that the market needs? '' That 
is, what does the veteran have in their talent set--their 
skills, knowledge, attributes, experiences, and education--that 
the labor market wants?
    Embedded in that framing is the fundamental labor supply-
labor demand match. The sustained success post-transition of 
our veterans and military families directly affects military 
readiness. When a service member's final experience in uniform, 
their transition from it, is positive and enduring, then a new 
veteran and their family will be great ambassadors for military 
service and will be more likely to encourage others to serve.
    General George Washington was clear when he said, ``The 
willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in 
any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly 
proportional to how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars 
were treated and appreciated by their nation.''
    Maximizing sustained success for veterans and their 
families post-military transition is, simply put, an enduring 
vital U.S. national interest. Thank you again for this 
opportunity to talk with you today about this all-important 
national subject.
    I look forward to your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Colonel Galui appears on pages 
45-51 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you very much. Mr. Hutchings.

                  STATEMENT OF MIKE HUTCHINGS,
             CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, COMBINED ARMS

    Mr. Hutchings. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, 
and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
speak here today. I'm Mike Hutchings, and I serve as the Chief 
Executive Officer of Combined Arms, a veteran-founded and 
veteran-led nonprofit, dedicated to transforming how America 
supports those who have served.
    Each year, about 200,000 service members transition from 
military to civilian life. Behind that number are families. 
There are parents, spouses, children who often find themselves 
navigating a maze of agencies and organizations that were never 
efficiently designed to work together.
    Veterans may face longer wait times, repetitive paperwork, 
and a lack of coordination that too often may leave them 
vulnerable. Ten years ago, almost to this day, Combined Arms 
was created to change that. We have built a technology platform 
that acts as a GPS for Veteran Services, connecting veterans, 
service members and their families to the right local resources 
in hours instead of months.
    We do not replace government systems. We complement them by 
integrating federal, state, and community partners to close 
what we call the delivery divide. Today, our network includes 
more than 300 vetted partner organizations operating in all 50 
states. Together we have connected over a 100,000 veterans and 
families to critical support, and coordinated more than 175,000 
referrals for things such as housing, employment, mental 
healthcare, and financial assistance.
    These connections have generated over an estimated $603 
million in taxpayer savings and economic impact, while reducing 
the average wait time for help to just 26 hours across the 
Nation. Our work has been recognized by the Milken Institute 
and the American Enterprise Institute, as a national program of 
record for veteran transition and reintegration. A bipartisan 
acknowledgement that coordinated data-driven solutions can and 
should be scaled nationwide.
    But we also recognize the challenge and oversaturated and 
hyper fragmented landscape with nearly 45,000 nonprofits in the 
veteran services space. Thousands of organizations want to help 
but duplication slows progress. Combined Arms cuts through the 
noise, veterans complete one intake. They tell their story once 
and they receive access to multiple services quickly. Our 
partners are held accountable for timely responses and outcome 
reporting, ensuring closed loop results instead of open-ended 
referrals.
    Across Texas and beyond, Combined Arms has become a vital 
conduit connecting veterans and their families to life-changing 
regional, state and federal resources, a proven model with more 
than a hundred thousand success stories. So let me share a few.
    A U.S. Army Sergeant who was referred to NextOp and found 
civilian employment in just 15 days. A mother of three, new to 
Houston, found stability through our network, receiving housing 
support, food and financial education through Family Houston 
and other partners. And a Vietnam War veteran, once homeless, 
found dignity and belonging after being placed in a Texas State 
Veteran's Home through coordinated action with our state 
partners.
    Even small moments show the power of collaboration. Like 
the day a VA psychologist reached out to us for help, and a 
veteran in crisis was connected to the Baker Ripley for housing 
within hours, while that federal provider discovered new local 
resources to help others.
    These stories aren't exceptions. They represent a 
nationally replicable model of coordinated care when local, 
state, and federal partners share information and act together, 
veterans are met with dignity, stability, and hope, not 
barriers and delay.
    Our veterans are not liabilities. They're leaders and 
they're civic assets who vote, volunteer and build communities 
at higher rates than the general public. When we invest in 
their successful transition, we strengthen our workforce, we 
strengthen our neighborhoods, and we strengthen our Nation.
    The covenant between our government and veterans is sacred, 
but it cannot stand alone. Federal systems are vital, but they 
cannot meet every need. Civil society must play a role. Take 
for example the Bush Institute, our partners at this table who 
alongside IVMF, Combined Arms, Wounded Warrior Project and a 
mixture of best-in-class nonprofits healthcare institutions and 
federal agencies, have built a connective tissue network for 
veterans and their families to seek care. No one organization 
can do this alone.
    Combined Arms shows that when innovation, data and 
compassion come together, we can deliver real results faster, 
smarter, and more human. Our organization stands ready to work 
with this Committee, the VA and partners at every level of 
government on bipartisan data-driven solutions that strengthen 
the continuum of care for all those who have served.
    Thank you for the privilege to speak here today. It has 
been an absolute honor and privilege. I look forward to your 
questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hutchings appears on pages 
52-55 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you very much. Colonel Carson.

STATEMENT OF BARBARA E. CARSON, COLONEL (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE 
RESERVE, MANAGING DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMS AND SERVICES, D'ANIELLO 
   INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES AT SYRACUSE 
                           UNIVERSITY

    Colonel Carson. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal 
and Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today. I'm Barbara Carson, the daughter, 
sister, mother of veterans, and a 30-year veteran myself.
    On behalf of the D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and 
Military Families at Syracuse University, I'm honored to 
discuss how we can ensure that every veteran, and family member 
can thrive after service. The IVMF was founded in 2011 and has 
served more than 230,000 people through programs in career 
preparation, entrepreneurship, and community connection. Our 
core belief is simple: When we get transition right, our 
country is stronger.
    Each year, about 200,000 people leave active duty and data 
from our collective and collaborative research with Blue Star 
Families consistently shows that roughly half of veteran 
respondents described their overall transition as difficult or 
very difficult. Broader evidence repeatedly finds that 
navigating the maze of programs and benefits can be 
overwhelming.
    And while transitioning to civilian employment, veterans 
and their families often must start over instead of building on 
the skills and leadership experience that they gained during 
service. That is why IVMF worked alongside communities to 
launch the AmericaServes network back in 2015.
    AmericaServes is a coordinated referral network that helps 
veterans and families connect to the right resources at the 
right time. We grew this model across the country and today 
many of those original AmericaServes communities are operating 
independently while continuing to collaborate through IVMF's 
community of practice.
    Through the community of practice, we regularly bring 
together these local networks as well as nonprofit and state 
leaders, many of whom are VA grantees of critical efforts like 
the Staff Sergeant Fox Suicide Prevention Program. Together, 
they share insights, exchange best practices, and strengthen 
the depth and breadth of the resource networks that serve 
veterans nationwide.
    In short, along with many others on this panel, we are 
cultivating what RAND and others have called for; coordinated, 
transparent and an accountable system. We can all commit to 
doing the same for transition. How we design and manage these 
systems matters. Evidence shows that success rates are far 
higher when a veteran is guided by a trained navigator rather 
than given simply a curated list of phone numbers.
    Looking at just the federal transition landscape, it's easy 
to understand why the support of a trusted navigator is so 
instrumental and why the need to monitor the process and 
results is crucial. RAND and GAO identified 46 programs spread 
across 12 agencies with the most funding concentrated in 
education, beyond the GI Bill, and very little coordination or 
oversight.
    The Veteran Metrics Initiative or TVMI, a comprehensive 
longitudinal study led by Penn State University, found that two 
thirds of post-9/11 veterans used at least one program after 
leaving service, and those who used multiple programs had 
better outcomes. Our research with VA has shown similar 
outcomes for patients who seek non-VA services through formal 
collaboration. In other words, connection and coordination 
drive success. At IVMF, we've taken those lessons to heart.
    Earlier today, IVMF and Hiring Our Heroes, along with five 
proven VSOs in the employment opportunity ecosystem, formally 
committed to improving our collaboration. Together we'll 
strengthen referrals and data sharing to better serve a 
military-connected population and measure our collective 
impact.
    We believe it is time to align our Nation's effort through 
a national veteran strategy, a whole of nation framework that 
includes federal, local, and state government, nonprofits, 
philanthropy, and the private sector. Such a strategy would 
establish shared outcome measures, better fund the evaluation 
efforts, and support cross sector initiatives that improve 
navigation and coordination.
    As part of this strategy, we reinforce RAND's 
recommendation for more oversight and evaluation of transition 
programs and encourage data transparency across agencies and 
sectors. Oversight is not criticism, it is critical 
stewardship.
    Veterans are assets to our economy, who bring talent, 
discipline, and leadership to every industry. They're civic 
leaders who strengthen the communities where they live. When we 
measure results, share data, and work together, these assets 
grow.
    We thank the Committee for your leadership, for your 
continued commitment to those who serve. The D'Aniello IVMF 
stands ready to partner with you, with federal agencies, and 
with our colleagues across civil society to turn these 
recommendations into meaningful outcomes. Together, we can 
assure that every veteran and every family who served receives 
the support that they earned and that a grateful nation truly 
does maximize their success after service. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Colonel Carson appears on pages 
56-63 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Mr. Lyon.

STATEMENT OF JARED LYON, NATIONAL PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE 
              OFFICER, STUDENT VETERANS OF AMERICA

    Mr. Lyon. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, 
Members of the Committee, thank you so much for this 
opportunity to testify. As a Navy veteran and a student veteran 
who has used earned benefits for an associate's, a bachelor's 
and a master's degree, while also now in pursuit of a Ph.D., 
after my benefits have expired, I'm getting----
    Chairman Moran. Next time you testify Dr. Lyon, we will 
look forward to that.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Lyon. As is everyone at Syracuse where I'm pursuing my 
Ph.D. So, I now have the pleasure to lead Student Veterans of 
America and we represent over 1600 campus chapters serving over 
600,000 student veterans and military-connected students.
    SVA is where federal policy meets lived experience. VA and 
DoD set the standard and we and our partners make it stick on 
campuses, in classrooms and at the hiring threshold. We don't 
replace the VA, we extend it through public-private 
partnerships and philanthropy. We bring additional capacity at 
no cost to taxpayers, to convert benefits into degrees, 
careers, and community leadership.
    We see what aligned systems can deliver. At SVAs National 
Conference this past January, alongside the Department of 
Veterans Affairs and partners, including the Veterans of 
Foreign Wars, Disabled American Veterans, American Legion, and 
the Vietnam Veterans of America, we offered a full-service 
claims clinic that assisted over 400 veterans and family 
members, and conducted nearly 200 onsite exams in a single 
weekend. That's the public and private flywheel working. 
Federal authority plus nonprofit and employer capacity 
producing fast verifiable results.
    Today's hearing asks how a grateful nation maximizes 
success after service. Give us the right tools and the public-
private flywheel will spin faster. We offer three low-cost 
steps that this Committee can advance now.
    First, forecast the transition. Each year roughly 150,000 
Americans leave active-duty military service. Most of them are 
under the age of 35, many with or starting families. Yet, 
campuses, employers, and veteran serving organizations plan 
against imprecise estimates.
    You could direct DoD with the VA to publish annual 
transition forecasts each summer by component, geography and 
broad demographics. The data exists, organize and share them. 
With a reliable forecast, the VA, nonprofits and employers can 
pre-position advising, childcare, internships, and hiring 
pipelines where they'll be needed most, turning taxpayers' 
education investment into timely local action.
    Better forecasting data could also shorten the time for 
filing critical shortage in the fields like nursing with 
veteran talent. Through research funded by Google.org, we're 
working with state and university leaders to reduce barriers to 
education and enhance economic opportunity for veterans. Work 
that better data coordination would strengthen even further.
    Second, connect that data. The DoD tracks separations and 
training. VA tracks education benefits. The Department of 
Education tracks enrollment. The Department of Labor tracks 
earnings. These systems don't talk in real time. That leaves 
Congress and VA flying partially blind on the outcomes.
    We recommend that VA lead an interagency transition data 
taskforce with DoD, Ed, and Labor, to deliver within 12 months 
a pilot that links one cohort separation data, GI Bill 
enrollment, and early employment outcomes with a report back to 
this Committee. Build it privacy first, consent-driven, so that 
data follow the veteran. Connected dataset Congress oversee 
impact. It lets VA tune programs and it lets nonprofits and 
employers, like ours, target resources precisely so that every 
public dollar works even harder.
    Third is to modernize the VA work study program. About 
three quarters of student veterans work while they're enrolled 
in college. Too often in jobs that are unrelated to their field 
of study, slowing career momentum and weakening return on the 
GI Bill.
    Update VA work study to, number one, align placements to a 
veteran's degree field; two, allow at least halftime students 
to participate and supporting veterans who are parents and 
caregivers; three, digitized timekeeping; and four, pilot 
targeted placements in shortage fields like healthcare, 
education, cybersecurity and STEM, and related data skills.
    Veterans already bring advanced technical and analytical 
training from their military service. With the right academic 
pathways and paid work experiences, they can meet the national 
demand for AI-literate talent and at every major industry as 
well as the VA actually needs now.
    SVA is already working to meet these workforce shortages 
with partners like the Independence Blue Cross Foundation, 
expanding pipelines into nursing and Allied Health through 
their service scholar's model. With better transition 
forecasting, we can shorten the time to hire in critical fields 
like nursing by advising critical placements and employer 
demand ahead of military separation.
    And when VA enables career relevant paid work, SVAs career 
center, made possible by the generous support by the Walt 
Disney Company, and our employer partners can plug in 
immediately, opening thousands of aligned roles so that 
education translates into earnings faster, no nude entitlement, 
just modernizing what taxpayers already fund for.
    Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to 
your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lyon appears on pages 64-71 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Ms. O'Brien.

 STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH O'BRIEN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, HIRING 
        OUR HEROES, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE FOUNDATION

    Ms. O'Brien. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify. My name is Elizabeth O'Brien, I am Senior Vice 
President of Hiring Our Heroes, an initiative of the U.S. 
Chamber of Commerce Foundation. I am also an active-duty spouse 
for more than 20 years, during our Nation's longest conflict, 
and the proud mom of a midshipman at the United States Naval 
Academy.
    I have seen firsthand how critical it is that our Nation's 
gratitude for service is translated into action. For more than 
a decade, Hiring Our Heroes has helped transform how the 
military community connects to meaningful careers. Working 
directly on installations and through a national employer 
network, we now serve more than 80,000 veterans, service 
members and spouses each year, and over 1 million to date.
    A grateful nation maximizing veteran success after service 
embodies the purpose behind our work, standing shoulder to 
shoulder with the VA, to build innovative pathways that empower 
veterans to thrive long after they hang up the uniform.
    That is why today we are sharing, we're so proud to be a 
part of the newly formed Veteran Employment Collective, a bold 
national coalition designed to transform how veterans and 
military spouses navigate their career journey. The Collective 
brings together the Nation's leading veteran and spouse serving 
nonprofits, employers, and government partners around one 
mission: ensuring every member of the military community has 
access to meaningful career opportunities.
    It tackles a longstanding challenge, too many programs, too 
little coordination, through a seamless referral and data 
sharing system, a coordinated approach that removes duplication 
and shared outcome-based metrics that demonstrate real impact. 
Last year alone, Hiring Our Heroes made over 44,000 referrals 
to partner organizations. The volume proves that structured 
collaboration is not just beneficial, it's essential.
    The Collective founding partners are creating a ``no wrong 
door'' network where veterans and spouses can access trusted, 
high-quality support when they enter the system.
    For more than a decade, Hiring Our Heroes has operated one 
of the Nation's largest and longest running SkillBridge 
programs, the HOH Fellows Program. The 12-week internship 
places transitioning service members directly into civilian 
companies. Over the past five years, we have connected over 
10,000 service members with 2,500 employers nationwide. Eighty-
eight percent of them receive job offers within three months of 
completion.
    While we strengthen the ecosystem, we're also innovating at 
the program level. This summer, in partnership with the Lowes 
Foundation, we launched the HOH Skilled Trades Academy in 
Jacksonville, North Carolina, at no cost to participants.
    The pilot is a six-week, hands-on training program for 
transitioning service members, veterans and spouses. The first 
class, eight veterans graduate next week. The pilot is the 
foundation of a national model, and in 2026, we will add three 
more Skilled Trades Academy, including one in the National 
capital region, one near Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington 
State, one in Phoenix, Arizona.
    These efforts align with federal policy under Public Law 
119-21, and with more than 400,000 open manufacturing jobs as 
well nationwide. Each program's desire to improve veterans' 
financial wellness, while easing pressure on the VA to address 
underemployment and homelessness.
    Finally, we must recognize a veteran's success is often 
tied to the military spouse's opportunity. The Military Spouse 
Career Accelerator Pilot (MSCAP), which Hiring Our Heroes 
facilitated in partnership with the Department of War in 
Deloitte, has become one of the most effective tools to closing 
that gap.
    Since 2022 in December, more than 1,200 military spouses 
have completed 12-week fellowships through MSCAP with an 86 
percent job offer rate and more than half of the positions 
remote or hybrid. This summer, the department announced a 
strategic pause in placements as it transitions from pilot to 
permanent program in 2026. We respect the process, but the 
timing is difficult. In an environment of furloughs and 
economic uncertainty, spouses who already faced unemployment at 
six times higher than their civilian peers, need access today 
to those opportunities, now more than ever.
    Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, Members of the 
Committee, the Veteran Employment Collective, the HOH Skilled 
Trades Academy and the MSCAP represent a whole of nation 
approach to veteran and family success and lead to American 
prosperity. We remain committed to leading this work with our 
partners across every sector and building systems worthy of 
those who serve.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I look forward 
to your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. O'Brien appears on pages 72-
83 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you for your testimony. Ms. Hermes.

  STATEMENT OF HOLLY HERMES, LIAISON FOR VETERAN AND MILITARY 
                    AFFAIRS, YALE UNIVERSITY

    Ms. Hermes. Thank you to Chairman Moran and Ranking Member 
Blumenthal, and Members of the Committee for having me here 
today. As an Air Force veteran and actively serving Reservist, 
I'm deeply appreciative of the opportunities provided to me by 
the Air Force Reserve, but I'm here today testifying solely in 
my civilian capacity, as Yale University's Liaison for Veteran 
and Military Affairs.
    I'm here to discuss veterans transitioning out of the 
military and into higher education and to share Yale's 
commitment to veterans and their families as well as our 
partnerships with veterans service organizations. This overview 
is not exhaustive, but it highlights common services that our 
veterans frequently use.
    Student veterans at Yale College come from the enlisted 
ranks. They may enroll as first year students, transfer 
students, or in our Eli Whitney Students Program for non-
traditional students. Eli Whitney students take the same in-
person classes as other undergraduates and have access to the 
same majors, faculty, instructors and advisors, extracurricular 
activities, research opportunities, and international 
experiences.
    The program's flexibility allows students to enroll in 
courses full- or part-time, and its advisors have experienced 
guiding adult students. In 2017, Yale College had 17 veterans. 
Today we have 58 student veterans from every branch of service, 
including our first Space Force veteran. This almost fourfold 
increase in eight years is due to Yale's partnership with 
organizations that support veterans preparing for and applying 
to college, and Yale's deep commitment for making education 
accessible and affordable for all veterans.
    Yale College continues to meet 100 percent of financial 
need for all students. As a result, 100 percent of our 
undergraduate student veterans attend Yale at little or no 
cost. Veterans are not required to use VA benefits before 
accessing Yale's financial aid, and many students choose to 
utilize Yale's financial aid, so they may preserve their VA 
benefits for future studies or transfer them to eligible 
dependents.
    All 14 of Yale schools participate in the Yellow Ribbon 
Program. The following services support veterans to and through 
Yale. The Warrior-Scholar Project was started by a Yale Eli 
Whitney student 15 years ago, and in partnerships with colleges 
nationwide, provides intensive one-week academic bootcamps for 
enlisted transitioning service members.
    Having taught at this program at Yale, I can tell you from 
personal experience, that this program gives enlisted veterans 
the confidence to know they have the skills to succeed at a 
school like Yale. Once students have the desire to attend a 
highly competitive institution, they turn to Service to School, 
a nonprofit organization that provides free college application 
counseling to military veterans and service members.
    Students also come to Yale through the research experience 
for veteran undergraduates, a nine-week summer program where 
enlisted veterans conduct STEM research and build skills to 
become research scientists. Yale Veteran and Military Affairs, 
serves as an umbrella program to support students, faculty, 
staff, and alumni, and to assist veterans in accessing services 
and resources both internal and external to Yale.
    We have permanent space, co-located with our Office of 
Student Accessibility Services, to offer events, programs and 
disability accommodations that support our students. Our 
student veterans have access to VA medical facility in 
neighboring West Haven, as well as the Yale Health Plan. Yale 
Mental Health and Counseling is an additional benefit that 
offers students a wide range of urgent and long-term services.
    One of the toughest parts of leaving the service is leaving 
a closed team of colleagues who are intent on working toward a 
collective mission. We are committed to bringing together the 
broader Yale veteran and military community, to support each 
other and build camaraderie. Yale has an active veteran alumni 
group, an employee group, and offers multiple options to earn a 
commission.
    Currently, we have over a hundred students working toward 
the commission into five branches of the U.S. military. Yale 
has been teaching and preparing leaders for service in the 
military and civilian sectors for over 300 years and fully 
recognizes the important role that veterans play in our 
society.
    Personally, I'm thankful for Yale's support of my own 
continuing military service, and I'm proud to support my 
brothers and sisters and ours, as they work toward their future 
education and career goals. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify and I look forward to your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Hermes appears on pages 84-
88 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you very much, all of you. Let me 
begin with a couple of questions. There's a significant number 
of veterans who don't access either healthcare benefits or 
disability benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs. I 
think those numbers are about 51 percent do access healthcare, 
and 42 percent do access disability.
    And it may be, you can tell me this is not true, there may 
be veterans who don't need those services or services from the 
department and there may be those who don't know about the 
services that are available. In fact, I know that is true. And 
there may be some veterans who know but don't want those 
services.
    What role does any of your organizations or all of your 
organizations play in meeting the needs of someone who is not 
enrolled in the VA? And is there a special opportunity or 
responsibility to meet the needs of those not accessing care in 
the formal governmental services kind of way? How do you see 
your role in that and why is that necessary for meeting the 
needs of those who serve?
    Mr. Lyon. Mr. Chairman, I'll start. I really appreciate the 
question because when we look at these benefits that are 
available to veterans, there's often the--do I need it? Does 
someone else need it? But they're earned, right? And so, if you 
earn them, they're available to you.
    When you look at those accessing care or the benefits that 
they've earned, be it disability and compensation, education 
and training benefits, the VA home loan, all of these things, 
we see utilization and the VA's own data supports it.
    The VA struggles to reach out to one age demographic above 
all others, veterans under the age of 45. And veterans under 
the age of 45 that have made a transition most recently are 
more likely than not to be what we call non-retirees. So those 
individuals that served eight years or less of active duty, 
guard, or reserve. And that population tends to be like myself, 
former enlisted, making their way through education and 
training as they move forward.
    So, what Student Veterans of America works with is one, to 
try to educate the population on what they've earned so that if 
they should decide they need it, it's available to them.
    Chairman Moran. Mr. Lyon, let me ask you, do most of the 
veterans who you provide assistance to, are they enrolled in 
the VA or they come to you without that experience?
    Mr. Lyon. They come to us without it, overwhelmingly, sir. 
Over 80 percent don't access the benefits that they've earned 
beyond that of the GI Bill. That's why we're working with the 
Department of Veterans Affairs to try to provide better 
awareness for veterans under the age of 45, who were prior 
enlisted and non-retirees. When you look at the data, it's 
retirees, most likely that access disability and compensation 
at far higher rates than non-retirees.
    Chairman Moran. Others want to comment on that topic? Yes. 
Mr. Hutchings.
    Mr. Hutchings. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The veterans that 
we see coming into Combined Arms' front door, on average, 41 
percent are actually already using VA healthcare benefits, 39 
percent are not enrolled, and around 18 to 20 percent are in 
the current application or planning to apply. So, one of the 
first things that the Combined Arms technology does is, it 
says, are you interested in being connected to VA healthcare 
and VA benefits? If so, that's one of the first referrals that 
gets automated in the system.
    So, one of the beginning steps is inform and educate. You 
know, it's a broad assumption, but what I've heard anecdotally 
is either unaware of the support services that were out there, 
or as even some of the Combined Arms employees that are 
veterans have a great career, great benefits, not interested in 
it.
    My personal vignette is, you know, I had a great transition 
story on paper and where I was hired and offered full-time 
employment with General Electric a year before I transitioned 
out of the military. I didn't do anything with the VA 
originally. Right. I'm fine, I'm all set. Great healthcare, 
great benefits with the company. And it actually took my dad, 
who was a career Army officer, served 23 years Army, kind of 
bumped me on the head and said, ``What are you doing? You 
should be connecting with the VA.'' And it's one of the best 
decisions I've ever made. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Let me follow up and there may be others 
who wanted to comment, but let me follow up. So, how are those 
who serve these veterans who have not accessed care at the VA, 
any kind of assistance, why are they able to find you but not 
the VA? Or why do they want to find you and not the VA?
    Mr. Hutchings. I can say how they find us, which is funny 
and also frustrating Mr. Chairman. You know, we spend a 
considerable amount of money in marketing dollars to try and 
reach veterans as far upstream as possible. Get the word out 
about Combined Arms and our partner network. And it always 
comes back to us. How did you hear about Combined Arms? We joke 
in the military, the E-4 Mafia, the Lance Corporal Underground, 
it is word of mouth and is how our community thrives.
    It's trust, delivery of services, and people recommending 
what's worked for them. After the hundreds of thousands, 
millions over the years and 10 years that we spent on 
marketing, it always comes back to, how did you hear about 
this? ``Oh, a buddy I served with, someone I started with told 
me about this.''
    Chairman Moran. Mr. Galui, you seem to want to answer that 
question.
    Colonel Galui. Yes, Mr. Chairman. This was one of the 
reasons why Check-In was created. President Bush inspired this 
in 2016, and he wanted those who served to get the necessary 
help, whether it was through VA or not. And Mr. Hutchings 
mentioned a keyword, that word being trust. And so, at the Bush 
Institute, we don't necessarily work directly with veterans and 
their families. We work with the institutions and 
organizations, the leading ones that do.
    So, the way folks find their way to Check-In is through the 
Veteran Wellness Alliance that I mentioned during my testimony. 
Organizations like Student Veterans of America are part of the 
VWA, as is Combined Arms. And so, when veterans decide whenever 
in their transition timeline, whenever that might be, to join a 
veteran peer network, it is through that network where someone 
who they trust on their side will suggest to them that they 
should check out, Check-In. And that's how they find their way 
to our program called Check-In.
    Chairman Moran. Trust matters. Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Ms. Hermes, I remember well, 
my own transition, such as it was when I was in the Marine 
Corps Reserves. I finished the full-time part of my obligation 
five weeks into the Yale semester. Other law schools that I've 
been admitted to said, there's no way you can start law school 
five weeks late. But I showed up at Yale and frankly it all 
sounded like Greek to me.
    In fact, it was Latin stare decisis, collateral estoppel, 
but Yale, even before its present program, embraced veterans 
and provided the help that was needed for that transition. And 
since then, universities and colleges and schools have followed 
the model of really welcoming veterans as Yale does. So, I want 
to commend all the schools that have the kinds of programs that 
you've described that Yale has pioneered.
    But I'm frustrated that the VA has failed to do its part. 
There have been widespread and egregious delays in the GI Bill 
payments that are causing real harm to our veterans and 
survivors and their families. They're still left to cover rent 
and tuition, and schools may be flexible about tuition, but 
landlords may not get it, because they've got bills to pay too. 
And the VA's failure to pay these veterans, the Article 35 
benefits on time, has real life consequences.
    I'd like to enter an article from Stars and Stripes into 
the record, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Without objection.

    [The article referred to appears on pages 352-354 of the 
Appendix.]

    Senator Blumenthal. And it says, ``More than 75,000 
students affected by VA payment delays for education 
benefits.'' I also have an article from Military Times, if 
there's no objection, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. No objection.

    [The article referred to appears on pages 355-360 of the 
Appendix.]

    Senator Blumenthal. ``VA tech glitch halts GI Bill payments 
to thousands, advocates say.'' And just so there's no doubt, 
this article quotes one of the veterans' advocates, Ashlynne 
Haycock-Lohmann, Director of Government and Legislative Affairs 
for the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors as saying, 
``The shutdown is not the cause of this, and it needs to be 
very clear that the reason that this happened is because VA's 
infrastructure failed, and they chose not to tell us until 
after the shutdown started.'' ``VA could have told us in 
August.''
    These delays began in August well before the shutdown. They 
are not due to the shutdown, but they've been aggravated by the 
furloughs and firings and cuts that the Secretary has 
unnecessarily imposed before and after the shutdown. For 
example, Secretary Collins' choice to furlough IT technicians 
and shut down the GI Bill hotline.
    I wrote a letter to the VA, October 9th, demanding answers. 
And so far, VA has provided none. It has not even responded to 
my letter. Answers about what can be done as well as what the 
causes are. Perhaps you can speak to how student veterans are 
affected when VA fails to deliver GI Bill payments promptly.
    Ms. Hermes. Thank you, Senator. We are facing the same 
challenges described in the media for student veterans across 
the country. We are able to provide some safety net type 
funding depending on the situation. But many of these benefits, 
particularly the Chapter 35 that you mentioned, are paid 
directly to families, where we have less flexibility.
    Though we acknowledge that the delay happened before the 
government shutdown, we have been facing significant customer 
service delays and interruptions due to the layoffs that also 
have occurred during the past year. That administrative piece 
has definitely been felt by our students when they're looking 
to solve a problem or correct a situation.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Mr. Hutchings, Combined Arms 
connects hundreds of thousands of veterans to high quality 
resources including food banks, housing, and emergency 
financial assistance. Your organization has reported, I 
believe, an increased reliance by veterans' families on food 
banks and financial and housing assistance.
    The Trump administration, as you well know, has refused to 
distribute SNAP benefits. It's a disaster for many of those 
recipients, if not all of them, but particularly for 1.2 
million veterans who rely on SNAP.
    Are there certain populations of veterans who are most at 
risk for homelessness and hunger? And how do you target them 
for services?
    Mr. Hutchings. Thank you for your question, Senator. It is 
a very serious concern, and thank you for bringing attention to 
it. What we have seen, data drives everything that we do at 
Combined Arms. And so, we look at the data on a daily basis. 
And we have right now over 70 different data visualization 
dashboards on the pulse, the health, the demand of veterans and 
military families across the Nation, based on real-time 
transactions that occur in the system.
    And so here recently, we have seen a surge in food 
insecurity and housing assistance requests. For food 
insecurity, within the past 30 days, about a 46 percent month 
over month increase in food security assistance. And then 
around 35-36 percent in housing support, financial assistance, 
rent, mortgage, utility payments.
    And I think that's the beauty of this collective network 
and organizations like Combined Arms, that if there are gaps 
and if there are pauses in the government, organizations can 
stand ready to help fill these gaps from a short-term capacity. 
Not long term, but short-term capacity.
    And I think with continued opportunity for integration with 
federal agencies, we can be more prepared in the future, and 
more resilient and ensure that veterans and military families 
get the support that they need. Thank you.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. You know, I don't know quite 
how to say it, but for me, any veteran household going hungry 
is an abomination. Any veteran going homeless is absolutely 
abhorrent. And I want to thank all of you because I know you're 
seeking, and in many instances, succeeding in providing for 
veterans in the face of these gaps in federal support. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Sheehy.

                        HON. TIM SHEEHY,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MONTANA

    Senator Sheehy. Hello everyone. Thanks for being here 
today. As a combat veteran myself, married to a combat vet who 
got out and had to go through the transition experience, this 
is a topic particularly poignant to me, and my wife and our 
family.
    So, you know, and anybody can answer, but do you feel that 
the VA is a partner in the transition process or an idle 
bystander or an opponent? How do you feel the VA exists in your 
transition ecosystem?
    Colonel Galui. I'm happy to address this both from the Bush 
Institute perspective and my own personal perspective, I too am 
a combat veteran, and my wife is also a combat veteran sitting 
behind me as part of my support staff today, along with my 
daughter.
    As an individual, VA's been certainly a partner in my 
transition. I have not personally experienced any delays with 
VA on both my payments from VA personally, and then also my son 
who attends Quinnipiac University in Connecticut. And their 
wonderful veteran coordinator there has been very helpful.
    From the Bush Institute perspective, VA, as I mentioned in 
my testimony, is a member of the Veteran Wellness Alliance. And 
since its inception, the VA has partnered with us closely 
across multiple administrations. And it's through that 
collaboration and cooperation and forecasting that we're able 
to have a strong partnership with VA, and we can have an open 
dialogue. Again, this has been true both in this Administration 
and in previous administrations.
    Ms. O'Brien. Liz O'Brien, Hiring Our Heroes. We focus 
solely on economic opportunity. In terms of how the VA partners 
with us through multiple administrations, they have come 
alongside of us. To include their CHCO, Tracey Therit, who has 
worked very closely with us to ensure that we are creating 
opportunities for military spouses to go to work within the VA 
structure across the country. And as you know, that's 
unbelievably important, that if we can get a military spouse a 
job, it increases the likelihood of a service member remaining 
in service.
    The VA has also continued to partner with us on local 
installations. You know, from 2011 to 13, we were hosting 
hundreds and hundreds of hiring fairs for veterans as they 
return to their communities. And about halfway through 2013, we 
said, well, why are we waiting until they return as unemployed 
veterans? We need to be on the installations, multiple 
locations, across the globe to make sure that we're meeting 
them and sharing about transition long before they transition.
    And so, the ability to meet service members while they're 
in service and create educational opportunities around what 
transition looks like, and the VA has been a part of that 
through multiple administrations for us. So, we feel like 
they're investing in economic opportunity for when service 
members are preparing to transition, and also being supportive 
of how we put military spouses to work.
    Mr. Lyon. Senator, I love the question. Thank you for your 
service and service of your wife. The VA in spirit is a 100 
percent collaborative partner in everything that we're doing. 
And I think all of my colleagues would agree.
    In function, some days they are adversarial, right? In 
particular when it comes to allocating the funds that this body 
puts forward specifically for like technology improvements.
    It's one of the frustrating things about the GI Bill and 
other VA administered benefits that can be a challenge, in 
that, by the time the law gets passed, allocations get done 
from this body, and then get all the way down to the person 
that's executing them. Sometimes it can be a bit frustrating to 
see old outdated systems that funds have been put toward that 
are still old, outdated, frustrated systems. But in spirit, 
they are partners.
    Senator Sheehy. Yes. And I think you know, there can be 
great people buried in a bad bureaucracy. And that's true of 
anywhere. It's not the VA. That's just bureaucracy at writ 
large. But I think you know, it was a bit of a leading question 
in that, you know, what you just mentioned is, for example, we 
are looking at agricultural in America and the slow, it's 
actually not that slow, pretty rapid death of multi-generation 
Ag in this country, as we're seeing farms close, we're seeing 
families recognize that the dirt that the farm sits on is worth 
a hell of a lot more than the crops that the farm creates.
    And they make the decision, which you can't blame them for 
making that decision. Hey, you know, I'm going to set up my 
kids for a future and I'm going to sell this farm or ranch and 
we're going to get out of the business and they can go invest 
it in the NASDAQ and do a hell of a lot better than soybeans 
and cattle.
    But we also have a system of incentives that doesn't 
support that, you know. When I was getting out, you can get a 
VA home loan for Frederick--four-bedroom condo in Miami, but 
you can't use that same loan to purchase producing agriculture 
land, which feeds America.
    And I think whether you're an entrepreneur, I got out and 
started a business with an all-veteran founding team. The 
incentives haven't historically been there to start a business. 
And sometimes that's good. A lot of veterans shouldn't start a 
business. They should get a job. But where I'm going with this 
is, I think as you said, Jared, the spirit is there to support 
transition. But transition shouldn't be the goal. That's a step 
in the goal. The goal is to have America take advantage of the 
tremendous talent that we've invested in and created in our 
veteran population.
    Our veterans are not charity. They don't need handouts. 
They don't want handouts. And the goal shouldn't be to build a 
box of freebies for every veteran. It should be let America 
take advantage of the amazing training and development we've 
given these individuals, so they come back and they serve our 
country again in another way, whether it's as nonprofit 
leaders, whether it's at a top university, whether it's 
starting a business or feeding America as a farmer, or going to 
work for a tech company.
    And I think our transition process should be less focused 
on the transaction of transitioning and on the creation of the 
veterans' benefits, the loans. The programs aren't there to 
serve themselves, they're there to create a return on 
investment with that veteran who gives back to America, and 
finds an empowering career going forward.
    And I think we're grappling with this in the wake of 
America's longest war, as we've had a very tiny percentage of 
our veterans, very tiny percentage of Americans has served the 
whole country. We never had this small amount of people do 
multiple deployments back over and over and over and over 
again. Now they come home and we have to find how they find the 
next chapter.
    So, thank you for the work you're doing, and I would 
encourage you to continue to engage with us on how we can help 
the VA be a really meaningful partner. And also, the branches, 
the active-duty branches, you know, let's make sure they're 
alongside in that journey. So, thanks for everything you're 
doing.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Sheehy, thank you. Senator Murray.

                       HON. PATTY MURRAY,
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

    Senator Murray. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And let 
me echo something Senator Blumenthal talked about, and really 
point out something that I think has not gotten enough 
attention. And that is that 1.2 million of our veterans rely on 
SNAP, that is about a third of them are over the age of 65 and 
40 percent are disabled.
    We know right now that President Trump is blocking them 
from getting the SNAP benefits they need, so they don't go 
hungry. The money to fund SNAP exists. Trump has chosen not to 
use that funding and his Administration said they were going to 
do partial benefits. They'd be late. And then he posted 
yesterday on to socially, he is going to block it all together.
    So now we are of course hearing reports of veterans 
flocking to food banks. They're not sure where their next meal 
is going to come from. Mr. Chairman, my family was one of those 
families. My dad was a veteran. He got multiple sclerosis, and 
we had to rely on food stamps for a while. So, this is not 
something we should tolerate. The money exists, it is supposed 
to go out, and I hope every Member of this Committee lets the 
Administration know that they need that money to get out.
    So, Mr. Lyon, let me just ask you about that. What are you 
hearing from your members who do rely on SNAP, and tell me why 
it's so important to student veterans in particular.
    Mr. Lyon. Senator Murray, thank you so much for the 
question and your ongoing support for our community. At Student 
Veterans of America, we leverage a lot of research. Basic needs 
have been something that we've been looking into for the better 
part of the last five years. Food and housing insecurity are 
remaining challenges for veterans in higher education.
    To leverage a Yale example, there was a young naval aviator 
who got out of the military after World War II, attended Yale 
as an undergraduate, was a baseball player, got married and had 
two kids while he was at Yale, all having the GI Bill fund, all 
of that, that was George H. W. Bush.
    That notwithstanding, the GI Bill is not like that anymore. 
The GI Bill is designed for a single person that heads back to 
school. And when you look at the modern student veteran, over 
half are married or in a committed relationship with children 
when they head back to school. Another 20 percent of us are 
single parents while we're back in school, and over 75 percent 
of us are working full-time while we're in school, just trying 
to make ends meet.
    It is very difficult to transition without a military 
pension, without healthcare for life. And that is what the 
average veteran is doing when they head back to school. So, 
it's no surprise to see benefits like SNAP and other things 
being relied on while you're back in school and trying to make 
ends meet. When those benefits go away, veterans are impacted, 
and more than that, their family members that rely on these 
benefits are impacted as well.
    Senator Murray. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing that. And 
again, I urge all of our Committee members to let the 
Administration know that money is there. They're legally 
required to obligate it, get it out. We have people who need 
that.
    Let me ask Colonel Hermes's about women veterans. They are 
the fastest growing demographic of veterans. And I personally 
have heard from many women veterans that when they return home 
to civilian life, people don't respect their service or assume 
that they are a military spouse, not the actual veteran. And it 
is disturbing that we now have a Secretary of Defense who takes 
every opportunity to insult women who've been in the military. 
And that really, I believe, adds to the barriers that women 
face now when they return to civilian life.
    So, talk to us a little bit about some of the barriers that 
women veterans in particular face when they come home and seek 
civilian employment.
    Ms. Hermes. Yes, Senator. Thank you. That is a very 
important question for our society to wrestle with. And as I'm 
here for Yale today, I'm going to frame it in terms of higher 
education.
    In our group of enlisted student veterans, which my 
testimony focused on, because that's our most vulnerable group, 
we have a very small number of women, and I'm going to even say 
parents or families. Because it is very difficult, just like 
Mr. Lyon mentioned, to support a family while you're going to 
college. The GI Bill benefits, the federal benefits that we're 
able to give even institutionally, can't support some families 
as they leave the military.
    So that's a huge challenge, and I think that's something 
that our society needs to keep wrestling with. And we could 
talk to the VA about programs that could support that in the 
future nationwide, not just at one school or another.
    Senator Murray. Thank you very much. I have run out of 
time, but this is something I'm very concerned about when we 
hear discussions about DEI and then it impacts women who we 
need in our military. And not just then, but when they come 
home and they're a veteran. They actually don't want to 
identify as a veteran or don't see themselves as a veteran, and 
they then don't get the services and benefits that they've 
earned. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Murray. Senator Hassan.

                   HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

    Senator Hassan. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and Ranking 
Member Blumenthal for this hearing today. And thank you to our 
witnesses, not only for being here today and sharing your 
expertise and time with us, and your advocacy for veterans, but 
to each and every one of you who has served. Thank you so much 
for your service.
    Lieutenant Colonel Galui, I want to start with a question 
to you. I'd like to discuss the importance of making sure that 
veterans get connected to resources and how facilitating that 
connection can often require trust and understanding with a 
veteran.
    In your testimony, you discussed the Check-In program and 
you detailed how veterans who reach out for help through the 
program are first connected with one of two social workers who 
have an understanding of where the veteran's coming from. One 
social worker is a veteran and the other is married to a 
veteran.
    I think this hits on something really important. Veterans 
need to trust that when they need help, the person they connect 
with can understand where that veteran is coming from. And 
that's something that Senator Ernst and I worked on with the VA 
and the American Legion through the Buddy Check Week, where 
veterans are encouraged to check in with each other because we 
know that peer-to-peer relationships can be critically 
important.
    As a veteran yourself, can you please discuss the benefits 
for veterans who are seeking resources when they're connected 
with somebody who understands them and their experiences?
    Colonel Galui. Senator, thank you for that question. I 
think Senator Moran said this a little while ago, that trust is 
everything. I mean, it truly is. This entire American 
experiment that we're all persevering is built on trust, right? 
And likewise in the veteran transition when seeking care, 
specifically through the Bush Institute's Check-In program and 
mental and brain healthcare, it's critically important that the 
veteran trusts the initial contact that they have.
    And as I wrote in the testimony, one of two women who are 
part of Wounded Warrior Project, again, they're part of the 
Veteran Wellness Alliance. Those two women personally respond 
to the person reaching out for care. And within a short 
conversation, the veteran on the other side of the phone will 
recognize that Susan or Kristen truly understands them.
    And when we referenced Check-In, it connects people to high 
quality care. Part of that high quality definition that we 
partnered with RAND to define, was ``veteran-centered.''
    Senator Hassan. Sure. And I'm going to follow up Ms. Hermes 
on the line that Sarah Murray was pursuing, because one of the 
things I hear in New Hampshire from women veterans, is how 
lonely they feel in trying to find other women veterans in our 
small state, especially in our rural areas. So, can you speak 
to the need of women to be able to connect with other women 
veterans?
    Ms. Hermes. Thank you, Senator. That's definitely true. I 
think it's true for all veterans. We want the students to 
integrate into our community and share their diverse 
perspectives. But we have had great luck with having mentoring 
groups, social groups, even casual meetups among our grad 
student, women veterans and undergrad women veterans and cadets 
and midshipmen, as they prepare to serve.
    So, it's a great point that you make, that that connection 
helps women veterans learn about these resources and take 
advantage of them and helps them feel supported.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much for that and for your 
work. Colonel Carson, in your testimony you discussed how 
veterans face what could be a complicated and confusing process 
to get help during their transition from military service to 
civilian life. You also mentioned the importance of making sure 
that these veterans are able to find the right resources at the 
right time, specific to their individual needs.
    Senator Cramer and I worked on this with our bipartisan 
Solid Start Act that requires the VA to reach out to veterans 
at least three times within their first year of leaving the 
military, with a focus on trying to meet each veteran's 
individual needs. From your perspective, what are some 
additional things that we can do to help make sure that 
tailored, useful, timely information is provided to 
transitioning veterans?
    Colonel Carson. Thank you for the question, Senator. I'll 
build on what Mr. Lyon said as well, that we want forecasts 
that can help. And encouraging service members and making it 
easier for them to be enrolled in VA. They, of course, have 
agency, but that would be a great assistance.
    Each service member does complete an individual assessment. 
We want the members to have privacy, their concerns considered. 
But if we can know what they need as they come out through 
trusted partnerships, which we do have with the VA, we can all 
better serve them.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you. I'm running out of time. I did 
want to just touch on with Colonel Carson and Ms. O'Brien, the 
issue of military spouse employment. I will follow up with a 
longer question but just really appreciate your work on this 
because I think one of the things we really need to focus on, 
Mr. Chair, around this issue is how the problem of military 
spouses not being fully employed or employed to their 
qualifications can really build over years. And it poses kind 
of this mounting cumulative impact.
    So, I'll follow up with a question to the record on that, 
but thank you both for your attention to that as well as so 
many other things. And thanks to the whole panel, it's really 
an important panel for us.
    And as the Chairman and Ranking Member said at the 
beginning, we don't usually get this cross section of 
nonprofits who are so critical to the network that we need to 
have, to really make sure we're not only saying how much we 
appreciate veterans, but showing them with real action that we 
do. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Hassan, thank you. Senator Cassidy 
you are recognized.

                       HON. BILL CASSIDY,
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA

    Senator Cassidy. I'm going to pick up kind of where Senator 
Hassan left off, and you'll see why quite obviously. Colonel 
Carson, Senator Hassan and I have introduced, and she may have 
mentioned it, bipartisan legislation to extend and enhance the 
Work Opportunity Tax Credit. Now, the Work Opportunity Tax 
Credit gives the employer a credit on the amount of money that 
he or she would spend to hire somebody for like a two-year 
period. And the idea is to help those who might have an issue 
with transitioning.
    So, think of the one eligibility or the people leaving the 
service. I like that, as a physician, we've learned that the 
first six months after someone leaves service is one of the key 
times in which they may commit suicide. That loss of structure. 
And sir, I saw your testimony speaking about General 
Eisenhower, like didn't have a clue how to do a career change.
    As Senator Hassan pointed out that we are extending this we 
hope, to the spouse of someone who is a veteran, knowing that 
their constant movement may have made it difficult for her to 
have long-term employment. So, any thoughts about that Bill, 
the importance thereof, and why not all my colleagues shouldn't 
be co-sponsors?
    Colonel Carson. Thank you, Senator Cassidy for the 
question. I appreciate very much, that incentivizes the private 
sector to be involved in solving this problem with us. And that 
yes, it's crucial that military spouses are included in that 
number. I believe the Department of Labor also has looked at 
including spouses as displaced workers. So, the benefits are 
there. We help navigate military spouses that we see to these 
opportunities, and prepare them. The same is crucial for 
veterans as you said.
    That first year is incredibly difficult. Liz O'Brien and I 
have stacked programs together to build bridges. For example, 
our program offers credentials. She has pathways for fellowship 
with employers. And if the employers are looking for our talent 
that we can help prepare for that opportunity, all the better. 
So, we're supportive.
    Senator Cassidy. And I'll toss this out, because I can 
speak from intuition that a spouse who's been a trailing spouse 
during the career of someone who's in the service, would not 
have a work record that looks like they've been able to stay at 
a job for a long period of time.
    But can anybody put numbers on that? And put succinctly, 
how we can help people understand the importance of giving that 
spouse opportunity for the Work Opportunity Tax Credit. Ms. 
Hermes, anyone?
    Ms. O'Brien. I thank you for the question. I appreciate the 
nod that military spouses are included in this. For over a 
decade, I was a college basketball coach and then married my 
husband. And we went through a process where we moved seven 
times in nine years. And so, as we moved, you can see where I 
was coaching at Hofstra University, I was coaching at West 
Point, I was coaching at University of Hawaii, and then I was 
coaching at Division II schools as we continued to move across 
the country and eventually ended up in Germany, where options 
were slightly limited, as you can imagine.
    And so, when we moved back to the States, I had to make a 
decision. I love to work. It's meaningful, it's purposeful and 
it contributes income to my family. And so now, can you imagine 
when I show up at the age of 40 at Hiring Our Heroes, looking 
for them to help me find a different pathway, and instead they 
offer me a job as a coordinator, right?
    And so, who is offering, who else, but somebody that's in 
this space is going to understand that there is tremendous 
value in my work history. And so, one of the pieces that we 
work on and work alongside the IVMF is one, the research that 
is out there, how do we translate it for the employers? How do 
we work alongside hiring managers, not just the recruiters, to 
make sure they're educated to understand what a non-linear 
resume looks like, and how to figure out what are the skills 
underlying in each of those positions?
    And so, as we work with our employers, we're also 
encouraging them to embrace skills-based opportunities. And so, 
as you look at the Work Opportunity Credit, we're grateful that 
you're including military spouses. We believe they belong there 
and encourage employers potentially to provide feedback, in 
what the administrative burden of being able to include 
military spouses.
    It's very difficult for employers who are highly regulated 
to ask the status, a marital status of a potential employee. 
And so, as you work on that, that would be one piece I would 
flag.
    Senator Cassidy. Wait, so if they would say, I like your 
term non-linear resume. Oh, you've got a non-linear resume. 
Well, it's because I've been married to a guy that's been 
transferred nine times in seven years. But unless you volunteer 
it, they can't say, hmm, it looks like you've moved a lot. Can 
you tell me why?
    Ms. O'Brien. Yes. Well, savvy hiring managers often do, 
which causes military spouses to be eliminated very quickly. 
But when Jared applies for a job, or Colonel Carson, you know, 
you can identify as a veteran, it's very difficult for an 
employer or a company to put on their military spouse, right? 
Because that is asking me what my marital status is.
    And so, it requires an effort by employers working with 
their legal teams to be able to put, you know, under the 
identifying status when you're applying to have military spouse 
on there. In theory, the companies we've worked with who have 
been able to navigate it, then puts the military spouse to the 
hiring manager who is familiar with what a military spouse 
resume looks like, or a veteran resume.
    Senator Cassidy. Very helpful. Thank you all very much. 
Yes.
    Chairman Moran. Ms. O'Brien, let me clarify for at least 
me. So, there is also a downside to indicating that you're a 
military spouse because it suggests lack of consistent 
presence. So, it's a double-edged sword, if you're not one of 
the companies that are interested in hiring the spouses of 
veterans, you may decide not to hire somebody because of the 
instability of the circumstance. Is that true?
    Ms. O'Brien. 100 percent true.
    Chairman Moran. Okay. Senator King.

                    HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

    Senator King. Thank you very, very much, Mr. Chairman. Two 
points initially. First, I want to thank you for calling this 
important hearing and assembling this very impressive group of 
witnesses. Following on that, I want to emphasize something 
Senator Sheehy said. You know more than we do, and don't let 
your contributions to our work end today. In other words, keep 
in touch.
    And as thoughts come out of, based on the hearing, let us 
know and make, give suggestions where we can help with 
authorities, with programs in the VA, with coordination 
efforts, all of those things. You are a tremendous resource, 
and I want to thank you.
    And Ms. Hermes, I also want to hope that you'll convey my 
thanks to Yale, because Yale is the reason for everything I've 
achieved in my life. The reason for that is that when they 
rejected me at the law school, I dedicated my life to making 
them regret the decision. And it served me very well.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator King. Really what we're talking about is 
transition. I believe that the Department of Defense and the VA 
combined should spend as much time, money, and effort on 
transition as they do on recruiting. And I think there's a lot 
of activity, and I think it's improved recently, but it really 
still is not where it wants to be.
    There are two or three issues that I've been involved with, 
and I'd like your quick thoughts. One is pre-enrolling in VA 
healthcare before you leave active duty. You're nodding. Is 
that a good idea?
    Colonel Carson. Yes, Senator. Absolutely.
    Senator King. So that there's not that gap of where do I go 
and how do I move? Secondly, Form 2648 has a box on it that 
says, if you opt in, if you want to have your contact 
information shared with the state veterans agency, we'd like to 
change that to an opt out. Because people often just don't 
check boxes and reverse the presumption so that people, unless 
they object to it, they can have their contact.
    My idea is if you get a state veterans organization, that 
state veterans structure that's in connection with VSOs, I 
would like somebody to meet the new veteran when they're coming 
to the airport. And that won't happen unless you have this 
reverse, this presumption. Is that something Mr. Lyons, for 
example, that you think is a good idea?
    Mr. Lyon. You could envision the honor flights that we 
bring to DC to see the Nation's monuments, to take that same 
concept to a newly returning veteran to a community. All 
politics is local. All transition is local. To the extent that 
we could meet them at the airport, that would be phenomenal, 
sir. Yes, sir.
    Senator King. But we can't do it unless we know that 
they're coming. And the only way to know that is if their 
contact information is conveyed. So, you would support that 
change?
    Mr. Lyon. We would support that change, the opt out.
    Senator King. Finally TAP promotion, that is having VSOs 
involved in the TAP process before the active-duty member 
leaves. That strikes me as just common sense. Is that--you're 
nodding. I hope that doesn't go in the record. This guy can't 
record nods.
    Ms. Hermes. Yes, Senator, we agree. Having VSOs involved 
would be a great idea.
    Senator King. Thank you. And finally, Mr. Hutchings, I'm 
fascinated by your website and in fact, coming into this 
hearing, not being fully aware of what Combined Arms did, my 
suggestion was that the VA should create such a website, but it 
sounds like you've pretty well done it.
    The question is how do we make veterans aware of this 
really rich resource that you've created? And again, maybe it 
should be on a form somewhere, that you know, check here if you 
want to hear from a website provider that can give you access 
to literally 40,000 resources across the country. How can we 
help get this resource that you've created into more veterans' 
hands?
    Mr. Hutchings. Thank you for your question, Senator. And to 
your earlier point, I will keep in touch. Three very 
commonsensical recommendations you made that I think we all 
agree with. So that is you know, a question that we're 
constantly struggling and iterating with as an organization, I 
think all of the respective organizations here as well, is how 
can we make people more aware of our partnerships, our 
collaborations, our collectives, like the one that was just 
announced here recently? And I think it's continued discussion 
and continued integration in the form of pilots with federal 
agencies, with state agencies.
    Senator King. But one thing that might help is if, as a 
veterans walking out the door, they're handed a card with the 
website, or with a series of websites saying, you know, if you 
are planning to go to school, here's student veterans. And, 
it's a matter of making connections. And again, I'm trying to 
think of how this can be done through the official process 
where everybody is passing through, rather than people who hear 
it by word of mouth. So, make----
    Mr. Lyon. Senator, if I could, you said it at the beginning 
of your remarks. If the DoD and the VA were working together to 
spend as much on transition as we do on recruitment, it's 
bringing the Department of Defense to the table as well, to 
hold an equal part and an accountable part to that transition.
    Senator King. Yes, and we're spending most of the time here 
talking about the VA, but the Department of Defense is a big, 
big part of this. That's where it starts. So again, share your 
ideas, but I think this is a very important hearing. Thank you 
again, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. You're welcome, Senator King. Senator 
Slotkin.

                      HON. ELISSA SLOTKIN,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM MICHIGAN

    Senator Slotkin. Thank you, Chairman. Thanks to all of you. 
If you're coming to me, you're almost at the end. I'm at the 
end of the line here. Thank you for what all of you do. I think 
you know, I'm a former CIA officer and Pentagon official. I did 
three tours alongside the military in Iraq, and I was a 
military spouse. So, thank you for working on this very 
important issue.
    A couple years ago, in 2020 when I was in the House, I had 
a bunch of veterans come up to me actually at a veteran event 
in Howell, Michigan and say, you know, they just had no idea 
what they were eligible for. Right? Typical, like, I heard 
there's programs, but I don't know. And we wrote, along with 
Senators on this Committee, something called the Solid Start 
Act, that was signed into law in 2022, which required the VA to 
reach out three times in the first year of separation, to 
ensure that we're showing all the services that the VA has.
    Again, many of these would be solved by opting out instead 
of opting in, if we had just kind of signed people up for VA 
healthcare originally. But this was my attempt at least having 
some outreach. And it's good, but I think the thing that I'm 
struggling with is, with all the programs that you all 
wonderfully do, how do we make sure that people even have any 
idea? And while a signing up for something and checking a card 
and all that might have worked with veterans of my age, right, 
the 9/11 era, the newest veterans are going to be coming out of 
service with like, no even history of reading their snail mail, 
of even reading email. It's all digital, right? It's all how do 
we get to them?
    So how do we, I guess this is a question I'm going to maybe 
ask Mr. Lyon if you could answer. How do you amalgamate all the 
services so that our newest veterans will have a one stop shop? 
And then how do you make it available in a form that they want 
to consume it in, not what their parents' generation wanted to 
consume it in?
    Mr. Lyon. So first off, thank you for your service as well 
Senator, and I appreciate the question. I wish there were an 
easier answer and I'm not sure that there is. It starts with 
organizations like ours here that have been invited to testify 
today. And we're grateful for those invites. We collaborate 
outside of rooms like this too, which is important.
    But I think that something that should be known as the 
majority of us that are going to get out, are going to be 
enlisted like I was. And the majority of those that get out as 
enlisted are not going to retire. And when we think about the 
localized aspect of transition and returning back home to a 
small town in Michigan, or anywhere in the country, it starts 
with those units.
    I mean, people don't get out of the Army, they get out of 
their unit, they don't get out of the Navy, they get out of the 
Navy from a ship. They're getting out at the smallest level of 
service. And if we tied officer promotion evals, for instance, 
to the transition success of their troops, you would see a 
shocking improvement in the transition process. So that's one 
radical idea for you, Senator.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Slotkin. Yes, I like that one. That's good. I just 
think we need to be thinking about how the next generation is 
going to be consuming their information. And I was pushing for, 
you know, hey, let's move from snail mail because people don't 
know their addresses, where they're going to end up when they 
separate.
    So, let's at least go to email like, I was pushing for the 
big development of taking their email address when they 
separated, their civilian email address. But I think we need to 
think differently. Particularly since our private sector 
companies certainly know how to target different communities 
and pump them the algorithms. Like I want to pump the veteran, 
the algorithm of like, Hey, there's a new program. You can get 
discounted Disney tickets. Hey, there's a whatever.
    Mr. Lyon. It's at a unit level; that's the first sergeant 
or the chief. Right? Like, have them there meeting their 
troops, kneecap to kneecap where they are.
    Senator Slotkin. Yes. That's very interesting. So how do we 
make sure, given that so many of your organizations they're not 
affiliated with the government in any way, it's just like, 
really good people wanting to do good things for our veterans.
    How do we make sure that there's some strategic use of 
resources? And we don't have repetitive organizations. You 
don't have what we call silos of excellence over here that 
don't talk to each other. I don't know if Mike, you want to 
take that or who wants to take that, but I'm worried that we 
have all this great effort, but, it's sometimes redundant in 
the effort.
    Mr. Hutchings. Thank you, Senator. And you are a hundred 
percent correct. There is incredible repetition within the 
support space and duplication of effort. I think there was a 
great component called out from a cohesive and collaboration 
perspective, a national veteran strategy to better identify the 
guidelines and principles.
    And then a national veteran data commons, like Mr. Lyon 
said, about integrating disparate datasets together, pulsed in 
with state agency data, with community-based organization data, 
data mapped pars standardized to basically have real time needs 
and demand signals of what veterans and military families need 
at the national level. So, a strategy and a data informed 
strategies is what I would recommend.
    Senator Slotkin. Yes. I feel like if you gave this to a 
bunch of really smart 24-year-old programmers, like, okay, we 
have all this data, how are we going to--maybe it's you. Yes. 
How are we going to make this easy and accessible and we could 
get at this problem. But my time is over. Thank you, Chairman. 
Appreciate your work everyone.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Slotkin, thank you. Thank you for 
your questions. Senator Banks, it's not true that Senator 
Slotkin is the last to ask questions. It's now Senator Banks' 
turn.

                        HON. JIM BANKS,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA

    Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We've seen a lot of 
progress in reducing veteran unemployment. The rate right now 
is 3.1 percent, is even lower than the general unemployment 
rate, which is really good. But I know that underemployment is 
still a problem, and I appreciate all the work that your 
organizations are doing to help match veteran skills to great 
jobs to help them find meaningful careers.
    In Indiana, we have a very successful organization called 
INvets, that has been recognized by the Labor Department for 
the important work that they do. And INvets partners with more 
than 500 employers in our state. And they have placed over 800 
Hoosier veterans in jobs. We're very proud of the work that 
they do.
    Colonel Galui, with the veteran unemployment rate near 3 
percent, sometimes we forget what a serious problem that rate 
was in the past. In your testimony, you referenced that 
unemployment among young veterans was 29 percent in 2011. Can 
you give us a bit of a history lesson, like walk us through 
that history and how did we solve that? What were the good 
things that happened along the way to bring those, that that 
rate down?
    Colonel Galui. Well, thank you Senator for your question. 
And a quick version of history is that about 10 or 15 years ago 
the conversation here would've been about getting veterans 
jobs. And the response from corporate America was robust. And 
we saw many companies committing to hiring veterans at high 
levels, getting them jobs.
    Fast forward to today, and we have, as you noted an 
unemployment rate among veterans, generally speaking, that is 
lower than their non-veteran counterpart. That's a great news 
story that veterans are getting jobs. The question now that 
we're asking at the Bush Institute through our policy work is 
that, are veterans getting the right jobs? And our claim going 
into this policy process is that the U.S. economy can employ 
veterans better.
    And so, in my testimony, I referenced reframing of that 
transition question. Instead of asking service members what 
they want to do when they get out of service, that's only one 
half of the equation. The other half is what is it that the 
labor market wants or needs from them? So perhaps a veteran 
should be thinking about what it is that the veteran has in 
their talent set, their skills, knowledge, experiences, 
education that has evolved during their career.
    And I would say that transition begins at accession. And 
understanding how your skills are evolving is critically 
important. And that requires leadership at your unit level, 
such that when the time comes for you to separate and begin to 
thrive, you have a better way to address your own employment 
question and try to understand that that labor supply labor 
demand match.
    Senator Banks. Talk about that more, unpack the labor 
supply demand mismatch, and how do we solve it?
    Colonel Galui. Sure. I mean, that is a large economic 
question, you know, broader than just veterans. The better we 
can employ our human capital and our labor force as a Nation, 
the stronger our economy will be, the stronger position we'll 
be in with respect veterans in their transition.
    And this might be a role for the Department of Defense. 
We've talked a little bit about--Senator King brought up, you 
know, we've talked a lot about VA. Well, there is a DoD role 
here to some degree, and that is helping active service members 
understand how their skills are evolving, such that they, the 
veterans themselves or the service members that become 
veterans, can translate not just their military occupational 
specialty into a job, but really articulate their tangible 
skills and their intangible skills to employers.
    Senator Banks. I'm a big fan of what the Institute does and 
I've visited with you all there, visited with you in my office. 
Has the Institute done any research at all on the impact of 
artificial intelligence on veteran skills and potential job 
opportunities in the future? For better or worse?
    Colonel Galui. We were in that process. In fact, the 
gentleman sitting behind me, D'Juan Wilcher leads our 
Employment Policy Working Group, which is a collaborative 
effort across academia, former government officials, and 
industry leaders that are coming together in an entrepreneurial 
way to better address these questions. And we will, from the 
Bush Institute, have policy recommendations next year.
    Senator Banks. Are we optimistic or are we concerned about 
how veterans specifically will be impacted?
    Colonel Galui. We're optimistic.
    Senator Banks. Good.
    Mr. Lyon. Senator, if I could add from the artificial 
intelligence perspective, public private partnerships are a lot 
of the answer. For us, we work alongside Google. We've done an 
11-state deep dive in policy analyses. And the beautiful thing 
is that by leveraging AI, we have the sort of economies of 
scale to find what the market trends are for the labor force, 
and matching those with the skills that veterans and their 
family members bring to the table.
    It's through things like AI literacy, which is a big issue 
in society today, but veterans based on what they did in the 
military, are bringing a certain level of AI literacy to the 
table. So, in addition to Mr. Galui's great work at the Bush 
Institute you're having this population that already is 
bringing the baseline to bear.
    If we can combine that with the data for where the trends 
are going, that data lives in Labor, Department of Education, 
Department of Veterans Affairs, and Department of Defense. We 
bring that all together, we can match it immediately, skills-
based manner to where if you're going to school or not, you 
have the ability to leverage these things for a future that is 
already here. And that veterans are very well prepared to 
support strongly the American economy through.
    Senator Banks. Very good. My time has expired.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Banks. We're going to 
conclude this hearing in a little bit, but not quite yet. And I 
have a couple of questions I want to still ask and that, 
therefore equity requires that I ask Senator King if he has 
anything he would like to ask. I appreciate that. And Senator 
Blumenthal, I know has a couple of questions. Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Just a couple of questions. 
We've talked a little bit about mental health, but not enough 
in my view. I recently introduced the BRAVE Act, which 
reauthorizes the Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide 
Prevention Grant Program to increase funding to combat veteran 
suicide. Just one example of the kind of program that I think 
is important to reach veterans.
    We all know that often they're reluctant to seek mental 
health help in the military, and even when they transition out 
for many of the reasons associated with the condition itself, 
but also what they feel is the stigma of asking for help. I 
think it's absolutely necessary to increase funding for the 
VA's mental health program and to enable more veterans to seek 
help outside the veterans community, whether it is the mental 
health services offered on campuses or through employers or 
others.
    Colonel Carson, you work closely with community partners 
who provide mental health care under the Fox Grant Program. 
Maybe you can speak to why it's so important to fund this 
program, supporting the mental health of transitioning 
veterans.
    Colonel Carson. It has been incredibly helpful already, 
although there are many measures yet to have an available 
outcome. But the reduction in stressors already from the Fox 
grantees delivery is outstanding. The proposal to continue and 
perhaps expand the funding for the Fox grants, along with 
performance expectations and oversight, seems like a smart way 
forward.
    And I'd also say that there are other contributors from 
each of the organizations who are here, who are doing the 
difference. There are many ways to prevent suicide. Economic 
opportunity, being part of a community, getting an education 
that takes you to a career that you desire, are also 
contributing. But this is an important grant, and we are 
already seeing the performance.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Lieutenant Colonel Galui, I 
know the Bush Institute does a lot of work in this area. Maybe 
you could talk to that point as well.
    Colonel Galui. Yes. Thank you, Ranking Member Blumenthal. 
Check-In, as I've mentioned, is led by the Bush Institute, but 
powered by the Veteran Wellness Alliance. And half of the 
members of that alliance are clinical providers, the best in 
the Nation that can deliver high quality mental and brain 
healthcare for post-traumatic stress, anxiety, depression, 
substance abuse, military sexual trauma, and mild traumatic 
brain injury.
    The other half of the alliance are peer networks that 
engage with veterans every day, whether it's through physical 
activity, whether it's Student Veterans of America, as Mr. Lyon 
is sitting here with us, whether that is serving in disaster 
relief, these veterans that are together get connected to 
Check-In, and get connected to mental healthcare.
    The two constraints on Check-In preventing us from 
realizing the vision, which is that Check-In becomes a front 
door to mental and brain healthcare access, is clinical 
capacity and awareness. And we have to balance increased 
awareness with ensuring that we have clinical capacity funding. 
And all of our clinical providers have their own pursuits for 
fundraising and the Bush Institute helps them along that path.
    Senator Blumenthal. If we're creating demand for mental 
health services, you got to provide supply. I want to give a 
thanks and a shout-out to the VSOs--Veterans Service 
Organizations, all of them, whether it's Veterans of Foreign 
Wars, American Legion, Disabled American Veterans, Vietnam 
Veterans of America, Afghanistan and Iraq Veterans. I'm sure 
I'm failing to cover some of them.
    Chairman Moran. You're making a mistake Ranking Member you 
need to----
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Blumenthal. Not the first mistake I've made, but 
let the record reflect that the Chairman has interrupted me 
before I could complete the full list and I could go on. But 
let me just say we've heard concerns from them and from 
advocates like yourself, that the VA is not effectively 
carrying out their referral process to private groups.
    By referring veterans from the VA to community partners, 
trusted partners like the VSOs and yourselves, the VA can 
ensure that veterans have access to the full range of resources 
and support available, at least more access, maybe not full, 
but the VA often fails to follow through to make sure veterans 
actually connect and receive that support.
    They're just handing veterans a business card or an email 
address or a phone number, rather than directly ensuring that 
veterans are physically and effectively connecting with the 
community partners. And I wonder if any of you would wish to 
comment on how the VA can improve its referral process to 
better track the outcomes for veterans?
    Mr. Hutchings. Thank you, Senator. I would love to comment 
on this. And I think, organically and hopefully this could be a 
future iteration of the Fox grant, of where you're investing in 
community-based organizations to help fill gaps and to help 
supplement support across VA modalities.
    But that there also could be a digital infrastructure for 
these referrals to occur, to have data standards tracking and 
accountability. That's the big gap currently, is we can refer 
veterans into the VA, the VA will receive those referrals, but 
then we have no visibility on outputs or outcomes or service 
delivery. We have trust in the VA, but we can't see that.
    And in the same vein, the VA has no digital infrastructure 
tool to refer to community-based organizations. And so very 
much the solution is a business card written on a piece of 
paper. And we would advocate and recommend for at least 
piloting interoperability for bilateral interagency referrals 
with great vetted validated community-based organizations out 
there, sir.
    Colonel Carson. Senator Blumenthal?
    Senator Blumenthal. Colonel Carson.
    Colonel Carson. If I may, we have research that proves that 
when these things do happen in a coordinated way, the data 
sharing that Mr. Hutchings recommended, it is more successful 
outcome for the veteran, nonclinical as well as clinical 
outcomes. And we'd be happy to provide that research so that we 
can see less variability in how VA units around the country 
interact with community service partners. We'd like to see some 
standardization. Thanks.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. I want to offer my thanks 
before we conclude, and I know the Chairman has a couple more 
questions, but thank you very much for spending this time with 
us. Much more important, thank you for all the great work that 
you do.
    I just want to make the point that the VA needs more 
resources and so do your groups. Your groups deserve and need 
support so you can better help our veterans. The furloughs and 
firings and contract cancellations that we've seen at the VA 
began before the shutdown. The shutdown should not be blamed. 
It may have exacerbated problems, but we need to resolve, as a 
nation, that we're not going to inflict pain or cause 
unnecessary sacrifice from our veterans through the furloughs 
and cuts and cancellations of contracts that we've seen 
beginning before the shutdown.
    And so, I know we live in a very challenging world. You are 
coping with those challenges in a very courageous and strong 
way. And I want to thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Sir Blumenthal, thank you. I actually think 
this has been a really good hearing. So, thank you for your 
presentation. Thanks for your time.
    Senator Blumenthal. I agree with that, Mr. Chairman. Thank 
you.
    Chairman Moran. No, you're welcome. And I don't know 
exactly what I expected to come from this, but I am really 
pleased with the amount of information that I've garnered and 
the suggestions that at least come to my mind and some that 
you've made directly about things that we could do to assist 
the private organizations as they care for those who serve.
    A couple of things that I'd highlight, Senator King did 
this, but I would make this same point again, and you 
highlighted for us the importance of the Department of Defense. 
And while that's not our Committee's jurisdiction, so many 
things that we try to accomplish on behalf of veterans is 
determinative by whether or not the Department of Defense 
fulfills its mission, its task, things that they're legally 
required to do upon transition.
    And too often failure to see that happen has a significant 
consequence in so many ways. And so maybe we can figure out how 
we work harder to get DoD to do more, while we also work to 
make sure the Department of Veterans Affairs is doing its job.
    I'm also appreciative of the highlighting of a topic that I 
hadn't thought about coming up in this hearing, and that's the 
consequences to military spouses. Again, that highlights for me 
an issue that we ought to pay more attention to and figure out 
how we solve some of those problems. I suppose we stereotype 
too often, but I mean, a spouse is a male or a female, a man or 
a woman, and both can suffer the consequences of the careers of 
their service member and their family.
    And the idea of how we recruit people to find employment, I 
think we probably underemphasize finding ways to find 
employment for the accompanying spouse. So, I appreciate that 
being highlighted. It seems to me, and I may be wrong, but I 
mean, in part, is that in the position that I occupy, that 
Members of this Committee occupy, we meet people who have an 
organization that's interested in caring for veterans and cares 
for veterans across our states, across the country.
    I don't know that a week goes by, but what somebody doesn't 
tell me, this is my veterans' organization, this is what we're 
doing, and I'm in a community in Kansas and somebody says this, 
you need to come see what we've just started. Tell me if that's 
true? Is there a proliferation of these organizations like 
yours, I suppose, particularly on the local level? And is there 
something significant about that happening that says that the 
needs of veterans are not being fulfilled?
    The alternative to that, I think, could be that there's 
just people who really care about veterans and are looking for 
ways to find their role in fulfilling that mission. Is there 
something that we should know about the seemingly growth? Is 
there a growth in organizations that you deal with and that you 
see serve a veteran that has a meaning for me?
    Colonel Galui. Chairman Moran, I thank you for that 
question. And I mean, I attribute it to the entrepreneurial 
spirit of Americans in wanting to do right by veterans, 
regardless of what the Federal Government or state or local 
government are doing. At the Bush Institute, we see a wide 
variety of different veterans service organizations from the 
large ones represented at this table, and have been at these 
tables before, to neighborhood ones that are just trying to 
find a way to make a difference.
    I think of one just north of Dallas, that's a neighborhood 
veterans' group that within their homeowners association found 
a way to provide resources to veterans in their community. And 
in Essex County, Massachusetts, I know that they're just 
launching a fund for veterans in Essex County. So, these are 
popping up, and I just think it's a good-natured Americans 
doing the right thing and doing what they can.
    Chairman Moran. So, we should feel good about this?
    Colonel Galui. I think so. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Great. You know, I think of one that even 
in my own family's life, that was significant. And you know, as 
I understand, the story started with a realtor in Georgia who 
decided that World War II veterans in his community should be 
able to see the memorial built in their honor. And look what's 
transpired from an idea and one person in one community, to the 
honor flights that we have today that are so meaningful for so 
many veterans.
    I'm interested in, maybe this is for you, Ms. O'Brien. I 
think one, I want you to start Hiring Our Heroes in Kansas. You 
listed some communities, cities, that this is growing, and I 
want to be a participant in trying to accomplish at least the 
mission of what Hiring Our Heroes is doing in my home state.
    And I mentioned this in another hearing. I read an article 
in--I still read newspapers. I read an article in a newspaper 
at home about veterans from Fort Riley, actually service 
members from Fort Riley soon to become veterans. The community 
of Wichita and the aerospace aviation defense businesses that 
are there, brought those soon to be veterans from Fort Riley to 
Wichita to see what the opportunities were for employment. I 
know for a fact the opportunities for those veterans are 
significant.
    Those opportunities exist, but we got to figure out how to 
make the connection. And it's my understanding that that is 
what Hiring Our Heroes do. And so, I would welcome any 
suggestions of how we, as Members of Congress in our own 
states, can be helpful to the process that the Chamber has 
started. Anything I should know?
    Ms. O'Brien. Thank you, Senator Moran for the question. I 
am happy to tell you that we have a presence at Fort Riley. We 
have a presence at Fort Leavenworth. We come through multiple 
times a year. We have also--we also hosted an AI round table 
for small businesses that are in construction and manufacturing 
just several weeks ago. I believe Caroline, who used to be on 
your staff, was unbelievably helpful to us in that as well.
    I think what's important for anybody who wants to invest in 
their states, there are several models that work extremely 
well. The Senator referenced earlier INvets, right? INvets 
travels with us. We go to over 50 installations around the 
globe. We're in Germany, we're in UK, we're in the Hawaii, 
we're in Asia. And so, they bring the jobs of the states with 
them to service members who would not know otherwise that these 
opportunities exist. So that's one unbelievably successful 
model that we have seen work at the state level.
    We work very hard to bring SkillBridge opportunities to 
states, especially for service members that want to return home 
to that state that they're from. And we are working diligently 
in Kansas to provide those opportunities.
    And then how we create opportunities for military spouses 
at the community level. You know, we can't do what we do from a 
national level without those community-based nonprofits that 
allow us to meet people where they are. And so, they become 
unbelievably important and we find them for us through our 
local chambers of commerce.
    Chairman Moran. Is there a way this goes back to lack of 
information that I think that Senator Slotkin was talking 
about? Is there a way to know veterans from a state, I mean, 
that are--how does an organization in either Hiring Our Heroes 
and what they do, how do you find the veterans to connect them 
with their home states? Is that possible?
    Ms. O'Brien. It is for us, because we get to them before 
they transition. So, if they attend our events that are on 
installations, or they opt into SkillBridge through us, we are 
collecting their ZIP Code from their original home of record, 
that is something that they share with us. And so, then we're 
able to discern, you know, we know about a third stay, a third 
return home to their states, and a third return.
    Chairman Moran. Once they disperse, that opportunity is 
gone?
    Ms. O'Brien. Yep. And so, we can pull data and share data 
and make educated decisions on where we think people may go, 
based on their original home of record. And so, for us, the 
best piece of what we do is that we're able to connect with 
them before they transition.
    I would also encourage people to really think about, and 
I'm far removed now, how do we meet young service members and 
military spouses where they are? And it's certainly not even on 
email anymore. What are the digital platforms that they are 
using to gather information? And it's not the digital platform 
that I'm using, right? They are not on Facebook, right? They 
have evolved and it's changing almost yearly.
    And so, we have to figure out, we get great results if 
we're texting folks, nobody's looking at their email. There are 
wonderful ways in different platforms digitally that exist 
through social media. I am not our social media manager, for 
good reason. But it has been an evolution that we've had to 
learn to embrace, or we're going to miss out on the opportunity 
to connect.
    Chairman Moran. You've caused me to rephrase the question I 
was going to ask the panel, which comes a bit from Senator 
Slotkin. So, what should I be putting on my website that would 
be able to be helpful to educating those about the 
opportunities? And the answer, I should change my question now. 
What in my social media platforms would be effective, what I 
should say and what mediums I should use to connect with those 
who are leaving military service and connecting with an 
organization to help meet their needs?
    Ms. O'Brien. Yes. we're doing a deep dive now to determine 
which platform we should be moving our messaging to, based on 
the fact that we are sharing economic opportunity, right. 
LinkedIn has been a wonderful platform for us, but I think it's 
dependent upon the message that you're trying to share. If you 
are just trying to connect at scale with veterans, it's 
probably going to be a different platform than LinkedIn for 
what we're doing.
    Mr. Lyon. Mr. Chairman, could I just add to--sorry, back 
over here. So, one of the things that's beautiful about folks 
that enlist our commission into the Armed Forces is, they come 
from states. And so, what we know from our data is for non-
retiring transitioning service members, 80 percent of them are 
returning home to where they came from or where their spouse is 
from.
    And so, one of the things you could put on your website, or 
perhaps even better, is, you know, just literally working with 
the young Kansans who are leaving Kansas for active-duty 
service because they're boomerangs. They're coming right back 
to Kansas within six years. And so, if you have the----
    Chairman Moran. Oh, so you're telling me I'm late, like 
you're there's an opportunity to do something much earlier?
    Mr. Lyon. Yes, but you absolutely can. I mean, the big time 
for enlistments will tend to be toward the summer times, but 
not exclusively. Boot camps don't discriminate as to what time 
of year you're there. Harder in the warmer months just from 
speaking from personal experience. But when you look at the 
young folks that are coming into uniform service from Kansas, 
the instinct is to go to the bases there and talk to folks, and 
that works. It's good. That's happening.
    What I see happening less in states across the country is 
actually working with those that are going into the Armed 
Forces, making sure that they're aware of what's in Kansas for 
them when they come back home. Because we make the assumption 
that if they're leaving Kansas, they're never coming back. 
They're coming back. And when they do, you can be there to 
better meet them and support them.
    Chairman Moran. Mr. Lyon, let me take that one step 
further. So, what should I know about Student Veterans of 
America and how do we connect with those who are already 
students in our states?
    Mr. Lyon. Yes, I mean, you know, if you want to figure out 
where basketball was invented for the coach over here, there 
are some good places in Kansas to go and do that. But when you 
look at transitioning service members, and I'm going to define 
the non-retiree population, just to segment the population 
enough to have your niche. That portion of the population, 74 
percent of them are going to be in a college classroom within 
18 months of taking the uniform off.
    IVMF's data tells us that since 2011, the most common 
reason for an enlistment in the Armed Forces is the opportunity 
for an education, post-military service. And so, one of the 
things that we can look at in Kansas or otherwise, is that the 
majority of that transitioning force that is going to pursue 
education will do so through community college. But the 
majority of those that attend community college won't access 
their GI Bill.
    They'll be there for on average three semesters, preserving 
their GI Bill to where college is more expensive. That's their 
undergraduate experience and graduate experience.
    And so, by finding a way to have better identifiers, this 
is again, data. I'm a one trick pony. But having that ability 
at the community college level in Kansas to have an identifier 
beyond, is this student using GI Bill? Are they a veteran? Or 
asking the question more broadly, did you ever serve in the 
Armed Forces? That way you'll know where they are at community 
college and you can better help them as they look to 
matriculate into four-year programs and graduate programs.
    Chairman Moran. I assume there is statistical evidence that 
hiring a veteran has great benefit. Is that true?
    Mr. Lyon. Massive, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Anything you want to put statistically in 
front of me that we ought to brag about?
    Mr. Lyon. So, LinkedIn's data is phenomenal in this, 
veterans without any access to education training or anything. 
When they separate from the Armed Forces, they already possess 
nine out of the 10 most desirable skills. I didn't say 
credentials, skills that today's employers are looking for.
    Chairman Moran. Okay. We talked about, Senator Blumenthal, 
I'm about done. I go last mostly so that no one has to stay if 
they don't want to. We were talking about the Fox grants. I'd 
compliment Senator Boozman, at least as I recall, that was a 
legislation that he introduced that was then included in the 
Scott Hannon Act that I think this Committee is very proud of.
    I've introduced legislation, the Hope for Heroes Act, that 
would reauthorize the program for five years, and the bill 
would increase the grant amounts to $1 million. This bill 
passed this Committee unanimously in July. And so, we have a 
legislative item that would be of interest to you and we'd 
welcome your support among our colleagues.
    And that program is not currently active as I think we were 
talking about because of the shutdown. But that it's the first 
time, as I understood, back in the day in which we did this, 
that the VA became a grantor agency. In my view, they were slow 
to implement, but it was one of those things that I thought we 
were doing that had great potential. And I hope to see the 
continued use and fruition and benefit that comes from that.
    Senator Blumenthal, did I take up more time that you want 
to respond or Senator King, you're good. Oh, no, I shouldn't 
have said that.
    [Laughter.]
    Chairman Moran. I thought they'd both say no.
    Senator King. You all now know what the filibuster is?
    [Laughter.]
    Chairman Moran. I'm supportive of the filibuster.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Blumenthal. That's good to hear.
    Senator King. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Blumenthal. I'm all set. My thanks to the 
witnesses.
    Chairman Moran. Alright. Let me do one thing that may 
prolong the meeting. It did the last time, it doesn't need to, 
but is there anyone who wants to make certain that something 
that needed to be said that wasn't said, wants to say it? Oh, 
Mr. Hutchings.
    Mr. Hutchings. Yes, Mr. Chairman, just one point that you 
were asking the panel of, what should I be informing veterans 
returning to my home state? What should I put on social media 
or my website? I think one of the things to look at, especially 
to Mr. Lyon's point, about 80 percent returning back to the 
state that they come from or where their spouse is from.
    It's looking at the state agency level from a secretary and 
commissioner of your either department of Veteran Affairs, 
department of Veteran Services, what systems in place. That's 
what we very typically see in states, is people returning their 
communities and very quickly connecting with those state 
agencies for local support.
    We've done an analysis of all 50 states and over 95 percent 
have no digital infrastructure or service delivery mechanism. 
It's a website with signposting and a directory which becomes 
outdated. There is no continuum of care, no closed loop 
process.
    So, looking internally at that state system of support, 
whether you could recommend that, or provide a little nudge to 
get the state moving forward would be something I would 
recommend sir.
    Chairman Moran. That's a really good suggestion, thank you. 
Mr. Galui.
    Colonel Galui. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Not to prolong too much 
longer or complicate our challenges before us, I have two 
comments. One, as we think about taking care of today's 
veterans and improving the transition experience for currently 
serving members, I just also encourage us to think about the 
12- and 14-year-old kids, who today don't know that maybe in 15 
or 20 years, they themselves will be veterans of whatever is 
ahead. So, our work is doubly or triply important on that 
front.
    The second comment I'll make in terms of how do we reach 
veterans, specifically what social media platforms we might 
think about today and into the future. We've learned at the 
Bush Institute that our foreign adversaries are deeply embedded 
in some of our social media and are deliberately targeting 
veterans to undermine trust in the delivery of care.
    And so, as we kind of progress through this evolution of 
our own transition and how we reach people in the digital 
space, just recognizing that there are those out there who want 
to undermine our own way of life, that will make transition 
that much more difficult.
    Colonel Carson. Chairman Moran?
    Chairman Moran. Yes, ma'am.
    Colonel Carson. I would love to share a bit, as Members of 
your Committee have said, technology is important, but 
technology is not the solution. It does enable many of the 
solutions that we proposed here. And I believe it was Senator 
Slotkin who said that she wants a one stop shop. I'd recommend 
instead, no wrong door. And that's what we can provide.
    If you picture the different networks that Mr. Hutchings 
has developed, and we are working with our communities of 
practice and intend to do even more with the Veteran Employment 
Collective. I'd say those might be patches of networks, but 
they can be a quilt that are interconnected, so that there is 
no wrong door.
    And one of the things that the Committee can do with us is 
build on what Mr. Lyon suggested. The data sharing among the 
agencies and sharing where possible with VSOs so that we cannot 
be reactive, we can be proactive in our solutions and have them 
to be evidence-based and held accountable. We want that from 
our services and we expect that from our agencies as well.
    Chairman Moran. It's a very nice summary. Mr. Galui, I 
would say that I always look in the audience when I'm speaking 
to try to find someone who smiles and nods while I speak. You 
brought two of yours with you. I've been able to see them both. 
You have not. They were very supportive of your testimony and 
answers.
    Colonel Galui. I'm grateful for their support. Let the 
record show that. Thanks.
    Chairman Moran. We're going to bring this hearing to a 
conclusion. A couple of magic words I need to say. Each Member 
of the Committee has five legislative days in which to submit 
statements or questions for the record. I ask any Senator who 
would like to submit a question for the record to today's 
witnesses to do so in a timely manner.
    In other words, the Members of the Committee have an 
opportunity to ask you in writing questions that we would want 
you to respond to. And we want you to respond to those 
questions for the record received in a timely manner as well. 
And with that the Committee hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 6:11 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]




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