    [Senate Hearing 119-176]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 119-176

                      NOMINATION OF GLEN SMITH TO BE UNDER
                        SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE FOR RURAL
                        DEVELOPMENT

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                            NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION
                                   __________

                                November 5, 2025
                                   __________

                           Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

                    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                      Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/

                                    ------

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    61-815 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025

               COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                        JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas, Chairman
    MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado
    JONI ERNST, Iowa                     TINA SMITH, Minnesota
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
    ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas               CORY BOOKER, New Jersey
    TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico
    JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia
    CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa               PETER WELCH, Vermont
    JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
    DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                ADAM SCHIFF, California
    JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan

                   Fitzhugh Elder IV, Majority Staff Director
                      Corey Weber, Majority Chief Counsel
                        Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
                    Lauren Santabar, Minority Staff Director
                     Chu-Yuan Hwang, Minority Chief Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                          Wednesday, November 5, 2025

                                                                       Page

    Hearing:

    Nomination of Glen Smith to be Under Secretary of Agriculture for
      Rural Development..............................................     1

                                  ----------

                        STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

    Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas......     1

                                    WITNESS

    Smith, Glen, of Iowa, to be Under Secretary of Agriculture for
      Rural Development..............................................     3

                                   ----------

                                    APPENDIX

    Prepared Statements:
        Smith, Glen..................................................    24

    Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
    Boozman, Hon. John:
        Ag Bioeconomy Coalition in support of Glen Smith, letter of
          support....................................................    26

    Smith, Glen:
        Committee questionnaire, Office of Government Ethics
          Executive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure
          Report.....................................................    27
        Addendum to Committee Ethics Agreement, dated November 3,
          2025, filed by Glen Smith..................................    60
        Addendum to Committee Financial Disclosure, dated November 3,
          2025, filed by Glen Smith..................................    61
        Addendum to Committee Senate Letter, dated November 14, 2025,
          filed by Glen Smith........................................    62
        Second Addendum to Committee Ethics Agreement, dated November
          13, 2025, filed by Glen Smith..............................    63
        Agency Letter to the Office of Government Ethics, dated
          November 13, 2025, filed by Glen Smith.....................    64
        Second Addendum to Committee Financial Disclosure, dated
          November 13, 2025, filed by Glen Smith.....................    66
        Five-day letter filed by Glen Smith..........................    68

    Question and Answer:
    Smith, Glen:
        Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........    70
        Written response to questions from Hon. Tommy Tuberville.....    72
        Written response to questions from Hon. Michael Bennet.......    73
        Written response to questions from Hon. Cory Booker..........    75
        Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......    75
        Written response to questions from Hon. Peter Welch..........    78
        Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......    79
        Written response to questions from Hon. Adam Schiff..........    81

                      NOMINATION OF GLEN SMITH TO BE UNDER
                        SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE FOR RURAL
                        DEVELOPMENT

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2025

                                            U.S. Senate
              Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:02 p.m., in
    Room 328A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. John Boozman,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Boozman [presiding], Hoeven, Ernst, Hyde-
    Smith, Marshall, Grassley, Fischer, Klobuchar, Bennet, Smith,
    Lujan, Welch, and Fetterman.

       STATEMENT OF HON. BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
     ARKANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION,
                              AND FORESTRY

        Chairman Boozman. It is my privilege to call this hearing
    to order. I thank my colleagues for joining us today. Today, we
    will consider the nomination of Mr. Glen Smith of Iowa to be
    Under Secretary for Rural Development at USDA.
        Mr. Smith, congratulations on your nomination, and thank
    you for your willingness to serve. Then, also thank you to your
    family. These are all family affairs to allow you to serve, so
    we want to extend a warm welcome to your wife, Fauzan, and
    lovely family joining you here today.
        Mr. Smith, when speaking with you, it is clear you
    understand the challenges facing rural America. Your
    experiences as a young farmer in the 1980s operating a family
    farm and serving on the board of the Farm Credit
    Administration, among other roles, will be critical for you to
    draw on as you make decisions that will have bearing on rural
    communities and an extremely challenging farm economy. Your
    nomination comes at a crucial time for American agriculture and
    the broader rural economy.
        Members on this panel are all too familiar with the grave
    challenges facing the agriculture sector. While rural
    communities vary widely, many of them share the serious issues
    that rural development is uniquely equipped to tackle. Within
    the past 15 years, nearly 200 rural hospitals have closed or
    ended inpatient services. Home ownership has become more
    difficult to attain due to low housing stock and rising prices.
    Millions of Americans living in rural areas still do not have
    access to high-speed broadband or even clean drinking water and
    adequate sanitation.
        If confirmed, you will be charged with the critical mission
    of improving the economy and quality of life in rural America
    through three agencies: the Rural Utility Service, the Rural
    Housing Service, and the Rural Business Cooperative Service.
        In my own home State of Arkansas, I have seen firsthand the
    success of USDA's core Rural Development programs that improved
    access to infrastructure necessary to provide clean drinking
    water, reliable and affordable electricity, high-speed
    broadband, quality healthcare, and safe, affordable housing. It
    is not an exaggeration to say that many of RD's programs are
    lifesaving and generate tremendous results for the investment.
        I am looking forward to the conversation today and hearing
    your thoughts on not only how Rural Development will continue
    to be a resource for Americans living in rural communities, but
    also ways we can work together to streamline programs, ensuring
    they reach the communities and individuals who need them most.
    Again, congratulations on your nomination.
        Senator Klobuchar is going to join us in just a little bit,
    so I think what we will do is go ahead and ask you to start
    with your opening statement.
        Oh, I am sorry. Go ahead.
        Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Boozman. I got ahead of myself. I was so excited.
    I was doing everything right----
        Senator Ernst. We were so excited to hear from Mr. Smith.
        Well, thank you, Chairman Boozman, and to the Ranking
    Member Klobuchar when she arrives. It is a privilege to
    introduce a fellow Iowan, Mr. Glen Smith, to this Committee. I
    also want to warmly welcome his wife, Fauzan, and their family.
    Special shout-out to Emma, who is entering into--you are in the
    seventh grade, correct, Emma? Well, thank you for being here
    today. It is always a family affair, and Glen, you have such a
    wonderful family. Welcome, everyone, to Washington, DC.
        I am sorry? Oh, the Honorable Senator from Kansas said you
    married up.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Ernst. I have had the very personal pleasure of
    knowing Glen and his family for many, many, many years. His
    hometown of Atlantic is just down the road from my home in Red
    Oak, and today feels full circle for me because in this very
    same Committee room eight years ago, I had the pleasure of
    introducing Glen during his nomination to the Farm Credit
    Administration. Since then, he has spent almost a decade
    helping strengthen the backbone of American agriculture,
    ensuring farmers and rural businesses have the credit and
    financial tools they need to succeed.
        Now, President Trump has chosen him to serve as the Under
    Secretary of Agriculture for Rural Development, a role that
    impacts communities in every state. As a fellow Iowa State
    graduate with a degree in Agricultural Business, Glen built a
    career in agricultural real estate and appraisal, serving
    farmers and landowners all across southwest Iowa. Glen, Fauzan,
    and their family also operate Smith Generation Farms, working
    approximately 2,000 acres of row crops.
        With his experience, Glen is exceptionally well-positioned
    to lead USDA's Rural Development mission. I could not be more
    excited about his nomination and look forward to seeing the
    revitalization of our rural communities under his leadership.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you and thank you for getting me
    back on track. It is appreciated.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Boozman. Again, thank you for being here, Mr.
    Smith. I will now administer the oath and then you may begin
    with your testimony. You will have five minutes.
        Please stand and raise your right hand.
        Do you swear or affirm that the statement you are about to
    provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
    truth, so help you God?
        Mr. Smith. I do.
        Chairman Boozman. Do you agree that, if confirmed, you will
    respond to requests to appear and testify before any duly
    constituted Committee of the Senate?
        Mr. Smith. I do.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you. You are now recognized for
    your statement.

      STATEMENT OF GLEN SMITH, OF IOWA, TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF
                   AGRICULTURE FOR RURAL DEVELOPMENT

        Mr. Smith. Well, thank you for those introductions. Senator
    Ernst, Senator Grassley, you are a friend to our family for
    many years and a friend to all in agriculture.
        Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member Klobuchar when she
    arrives, distinguished Members of the Ag Committee, it is an
    honor to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee
    to be the Under Secretary for Rural Development in the United
    States Department of Agriculture.
        I am a fifth-generation farmer from the gently rolling
    hills of western Iowa. All our children behind me would
    represent the sixth generation, and as mentioned before, she
    would probably squirm a little bit for the attention, my
    special guest is our oldest granddaughter, Emma, which
    represent the seventh generation of agriculturalists, and that
    is if she continues her impressive career in the cattle
    business. She is quite a showman.
        Like most farm kids, the important virtues of hard work and
    determination were instilled in me at a very early age. I
    witnessed for years my parents struggling to keep a small farm
    going. I watched my folks fight back after a disabling
    accident, working off-farm jobs, doing farm work--sorry--in the
    evenings, weekends, and holidays. Our rural community was
    always there, supportive, talking about our neighbors, our
    friends, family, church, pastor, emergency response, healthcare
    system, doctors, nurses, schools, teachers, coaches, local
    businesses offering jobs. The list is long, and the lessons
    learned from living in a rural community never leave you.
        In order for rural communities to survive and prosper, we
    must have robust rural economies. As a lifelong farmer, I can
    tell you, when a farmer has a dollar in his pocket, chances are
    80 to 90 cents of that dollar will be spent in town. It is that
    multiplier effect we all read about. The key to that prosperity
    has and will continue to be adding value to our raw, bulk
    agricultural products. I have noted, I think it has been great
    to see the proliferation of consumer--directly to consumer from
    producer products that we have seen in the last decade, maybe
    since COVID. Locally raised beef from North Dakota and Kansas
    ranches, pork from Minnesota farms, locally raised dairy,
    vegetable, and fruit in Michigan and Vermont directed to our
    schools, hospitals, and farmers' markets.
        I have witnessed this value added in our own backyard, as
    one of our Iowa farms actually borders one of the most
    efficient ethanol plants in the world. I have seen how it has
    boosted our local economy. It is not just the 80 jobs at that
    plant. It has all the support services and businesses it
    engages and the wealth it pumps into the trade area from the
    premium price paid for corn for the ethanol that is distributed
    all over our country and all over the world.
        Now you capitalize those premiums by long-term investment
    rates. You are talking hundreds of millions, maybe billions of
    dollars over time that is pumped into that rural economy. Rural
    development could and should play a key role in that value-
    added investment and entrepreneurship encouragement.
        The second area I would like to touch on is rural
    connectivity. During COVID, many of you saw, and I saw--
    actually saw a reversal of the historic rural-to-urban
    population migration. We actually saw rural populations grow,
    largely in areas that could support remote internet work. I
    firmly believe that many urban residents desire and would seek
    the amenities of rural living. However, they also need the
    tools to work remotely in meaningful occupations. Those same
    tools of connectivity allow schools, hospitals, and businesses
    in rural areas to compete with the rest of the world.
        Let's take a history lesson. In 1936, under the New Deal,
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Rural Development was charged with
    the challenge of bringing electricity to our country's rural
    regions, a mission that was admirably achieved. Given the right
    resources, Rural Development should strive to achieve that same
    level of success in rural connectivity, and again, given the
    right resources.
        The last area I would like to touch on is the cost and
    availability of homes in rural America. While this is a
    challenging area, if confirmed, I pledge to ensure USDA
    programs on housing operate with transparency and efficiency. I
    will look at all options specific to different regions and make
    intelligent long-term investments in meeting housing demand.
    Intelligent investments, not just pushing money out the door.
    That is not fair to the recipients, and that is not being
    accountable to the public dollar.
        These are a few of my ideas as I ponder a new role as
    advisor to Secretary Brooke Rollins in carrying out the goals
    of the Trump Administration in serving rural America. As
    Members of this Committee, I am sure you have many of your own
    ideas, some of which you shared last week. If confirmed, I
    pledge to you I will listen to those ideas. Together, we will
    work in improving the viability and prosperity of rural
    America.
        I look forward to your conversations and questions.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Smith can be found on pages
    24-25 in the appendix.]
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you very much.
        Without objection, I would like to add letters of support
    for Mr. Smith's nomination into the record. So ordered.
        [The letter can be found on page 26 in the appendix.]
        Chairman Boozman. I will go ahead and get started. Arkansas
    is one of the largest shares of rural population in the country
    with almost 45 percent of the state's population residing in
    rural areas. While USDA data does show modest population gains
    in some rural communities following the COVID pandemic, many
    rural communities still continue to see declines. I guess the
    question is--and to me, that is really the major problem facing
    rural America. I think 53 percent of our counties lost
    population last census. It does not matter if you are the
    fastest growing state in the country or where you are at, even
    those states are losing rural population.
        I guess the question is, what ideas do you have, how can
    you work with Congress to implement things that will help stem
    the flow of outmigration and generate sustained economic growth
    in rural areas?
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Boozman. In my opening
    comments in addressing the three areas of Rural Development, I
    think to look at solving some of the decline in rural American
    population, you look at it two-fold. Number one, we need to
    have good, vibrant rural economies, and successful agriculture
    contributes to that tremendously, again, the multiplier effect
    we speak of. Rural Development has so many programs, 88
    programs I have learned, and many of those are support for
    businesses, for cooperatives, entrepreneurship endeavors in
    rural America, and all these contribute to that prosperity and
    moving ahead as far as that rural economy, but you also have to
    have quality of life.
        Rural Development also plays a huge role in that with the
    community facilities, everything from water treatment to waste
    treatment to hospitals to fire stations, infrastructure--
    hospitals--infrastructure that contributes to the quality of
    life because you are not going to keep residents or attract
    residents, which would be even more positive, if you do not
    have that quality of life. Rural Development contributes hugely
    to that quality of life.
        Chairman Boozman. Very much, thank you. Mr. Smith, we have
    all seen news reports that hostile actors like China have
    targeted U.S. utility infrastructure such as water systems.
    What are your thoughts on the importance of cybersecurity to
    the core infrastructure programs at Rural Development? Will you
    commit to working with this Committee to better understand what
    new policy tools may be needed for USDA to ensure our rural
    water systems and other critical infrastructure are protected
    from those who wish to do us harm?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Senator, that scares the bejesus out of
    me, and it should be every American, the vulnerability of our
    grid, particularly in rural areas that may not have the
    security measures that is needed to protect that distribution
    grid. I think any programs that Rural Development is involved
    in should make sure we have adequate cybersecurity measures,
    because a lot of this can be done by bad characters simply from
    cybersecurity. They are not going to show up at a site and
    plant a bomb at a substation. They are going to do it on their
    computer. The cybersecurity issue is very huge, and it is
    something I think we should make sure we have those protections
    in place for new loans, for guarantees, and grants whatever--
    wherever Rural Development is contributing.
        Chairman Boozman. One thing that government struggles with
    is IT. How important do you think improving USDA's RD IT
    capabilities are to the success of the programs? How do you
    view technology improving the customer experience?
        Mr. Smith. Senator, I have not delved into it yet, but I
    can pull on my experience at Farm Credit Administration. In
    fact, my fellow board member, Jeff Hall, is here in the
    audience, and Jeff and I worked together for eight years.
    Cybersecurity is at the top of the issue, and a key to that is
    a very, very on-top-of-it IT program. We found with our
    employees, particularly during COVID, we really had to tap into
    those IT resources in order to continue with our mission.
        My goal will be to find out, first of all, if our field
    offices, hundreds of field offices throughout the country, are
    equipped with the right equipment, the audio and the visual
    equipment that allow them to communicate between offices, and
    also communicate, obviously, with the hub offices and with us
    here in D.C. It is something I will look into and something
    that I think is a great deal of importance, and if there is
    improvement needed, you can believe that we will try to execute
    those changes.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you.
        Senator Smith.
        Senator Smith. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to
    the Committee, Mr. Smith. Maybe you are related to my husband's
    family. I cannot say for sure.
        Mr. Smith. You never know.
        Senator Smith. That is right. Mr. Chair, in preparation for
    this hearing, I asked my staff to check in with Minnesotans on
    this very important issue of rural economic issues, and the one
    question that we kept hearing over and over again was, what is
    this administration's plan for spurring rural economies? This
    question is being asked in the context of a lot of talk about
    moving things around within Rural Development, for example,
    moving the Rural Housing Service to HUD, or rural business
    financing programs to SBA, or rural broadband programs to
    Commerce. I do not know what this would look like yet. We do
    not have a concrete plan, but I can tell you that in Minnesota,
    this is giving people a lot of concern because they trust the
    USDA on these issues. They know where to go. They know how to
    find the help that they need, and they know that rural
    challenges are unique, and they believe that the USDA
    understands that.
        I wanted to just raise this, Mr. Chair, because I think
    that as we are looking at a farm economy that is deeply
    challenging for so many folks right now, big credit crunch, a
    lot of challenges, it is really important that folks know that
    USDA Rural Development is going to be there for them.
        I want to go to a piece of this right away. I appreciate
    that you mentioned rural housing in your opening statement. I
    am sure everybody around this Committee table knows that we
    have a serious shortage of housing, affordable housing in
    particular, in rural communities. These are places where our
    elders, folks living on fixed incomes, people who are working
    two or three jobs but in low-wage jobs, this is where they
    live. Everyone agrees, I think, that the Rural Housing Service
    at USDA needs to be reformed and modernized.
        This has been a special project of mine. I have worked with
    Senator Rounds on this for several years, strong bipartisan
    support. In fact, it passed out of the Senate.
        I wanted to ask you about this, Mr. Smith. I think that the
    Rural Housing Service should stay at USDA. They know the
    program. They understand how it works. They can work with rural
    communities. Could you comment on that? Do you think that it
    should stay at USDA? Will you work with me on this piece of
    legislation? It is yet to pass the House. It is part of the
    NDAA right now bill that has passed out of the Senate. Could
    you just comment on this and let me know that you would be able
    to work with me on this?
        Mr. Smith. Certainly, Senator. I could not agree with you
    more. My firsthand experience with USDA is--as a farmer is the
    NRCS and FSA offices. They have very similar footprints out in
    rural America as Rural Development. We have got the mechanism
    for these programs, and I could not imagine it being in another
    area other than USDA.
        One of my primary responsibilities is to be the advisor to
    Secretary Rollins, and that certainly would be my advice to
    her. As far as working with you, I would be more than happy to
    work with you on those ideas and that bill to make sure that
    comes about.
        Senator Smith. Thank you. I believe that this bill is one
    of those classic, common sense, bipartisan, does not cost very
    much, but let's just figure out how to make these programs that
    have been around for a long-time work better----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Smith [continuing]. for farmers and for homeowners.
    It could preserve up to 400,000 affordable units across the
    country, so it is a big deal.
        Let me just ask you about one other thing in the minute I
    have left. I also hear all the time in rural communities about
    how important it is to find childcare. You know, if you do not
    have childcare, then, you know, you have got a lot of families
    that are working off-farm as well as on the farm, and there is
    a real shortage. It is a big issue. This is another bipartisan
    thing. I have worked with Senator Ernst and Senator Marshall on
    this legislation that would help the USDA, help local, often
    family-owned childcare providers in their communities. Would
    you just talk a little bit about this and kind of how you see
    this challenge?
        Mr. Smith. Well, actually, I probably should bring my wife
    up here in the chair because she can attest to the challenges
    we had raising four children, not having a lot of money, and
    basically her working a full-time job as a nurse at the
    hospital, me starting to try to get a business off the ground
    in town, and operating a farm besides. Yes, it was a constant
    challenge and juggling contest to see who would pick up who,
    who would take who to school, who would drop off here.
    Childcare has become a critical need in rural America, as the
    next generation can attest to with our grandchildren.
        I know in our hometown community of Atlantic right now,
    there is an initiative to bring in new housing, and compatible
    with that and right with that is expanding on a childcare
    center, which we have contributed to.
        Absolutely, you have hit right on the point. The fact of
    life is many rural families are two-income families.
        Senator Smith. That is right.
        Mr. Smith. Back when I was growing up, you had your
    grandparents, you had your uncles, aunts and uncles and
    cousins. It was right there, and a lot of times, you all traded
    that off; you got on the school bus at the same time. Well, we
    are in a different era now with those two-income families. A
    lot of times, two-income families means a spouse works just to
    provide insurance----
        Senator Smith. Healthcare.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. for that family. I have got a young
    friend down the road that has got four young children. They are
    all healthy, thank God, and his insurance is like $36,000 a
    year.
        Senator Smith. Yes.
        Mr. Smith. That does not even include----
        Senator Smith. You have got an idea to fix that, too.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. Well, okay. As far as----
        Senator Smith. I am being polite because this is the Ag
    Committee.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. Okay. As far as childcare, Senator, I could not
    be more supportive----
        Senator Smith. Thank you.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. of that, and that would fall under
    the community facilities area.
        Senator Smith. That is right.
        Mr. Smith. Rural Development, as I understand it, is active
    in it right now.
        Senator Smith. Well, I am well over my time. Thank you, Mr.
    Chair.
        Thank you very much.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you.
        Senator Ernst.
        Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you,
    Mr. Smith. It is great to have you here before us today. I know
    that I am biased, but I always say we need more Iowans serving
    in our Federal Government, and truly those folks who understand
    what it is to be a rural American, so thank you so much for
    being willing to take this on.
        Mr. Smith, as you know, the ag economy continues to
    struggle. We have got high input prices and low commodity
    prices. Just yesterday, CNH announced it will be closing its
    facility in Burlington, Iowa, and with that closure, it
    eliminates about 200 jobs. The plant produced heavy machinery
    and ag equipment, and its closure shows how low farm income
    ripples across our entire state.
        I do thank the President and his team for delivering new
    trade deals and advancing strong policies to support the
    biofuel industry, which will help us build new markets. With
    that being said, there is still more work ahead to increase
    demand.
        At USDA, the BioPreferred program plays a key role in
    promoting bio-based products. Many are made from Iowa-grown
    crops like soy-based asphalt for roads and corn-based carbon
    fiber used in military munitions. Unfortunately, the program is
    not currently operating because it has run out of resources.
    With renewed backing from Congress and strong USDA leadership,
    BioPreferred can expand markets, create jobs, and strengthen
    rural communities.
        Senator Slotkin and I introduced the Biomanufacturing and
    Jobs Act to modernize the program by increasing purchases of
    bio-based products, improving labeling and transparency, and
    better coordinating USDA's efforts to grow the bio-based
    economy here at home. Mr. Smith, if confirmed, will you commit
    to prioritizing improvements to the BioPreferred program and
    working with Congress to expand bio-based markets and Federal
    Government procurement?
        Mr. Smith. Senator Ernst, thank you for that question, and
    thank you for first introducing me to the idea of coming to
    Washington, DC, although the first couple months and getting
    used to the traffic and the standard of living here, I wondered
    about it a few times.
        The question on the biofuel plant or any bioproduct is
    using our raw bulk commodities. I mentioned in my opening
    comments, any business that we can use--that we can utilize in
    the United States that uses that raw agricultural product, we
    are not relying on that bushel corn, bushel soybeans, whatever,
    to have to be exported to keep prices up. We are developing our
    own markets. It has that exponential effect not only of that
    industry being in Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, whatever
    rural state it happens to be in, but it has that multiplier
    effect of creating the domestic demand.
        Absolutely, I would support you in that. I know there is a
    lot of exciting products and technology out there that can
    utilize our raw bulk products. Anything we can invest in at
    Rural Development in the way of grants, loans, or guarantees I
    believe, will pay exponentially. Yes, ma'am, I would support
    that.
        Senator Ernst. Thank you so much. Just switching gears very
    quickly in the time we have left, connectivity, as you
    mentioned, in rural America is very, very important, whether it
    is our hospitals, our schools, home businesses, small
    businesses. We need to make sure that we are able to compete
    and thrive with that connectivity.
        Right now, there are more than 133 broadband programs
    across the government, including six under USDA Rural
    Development. Many of the programs are very duplicative and
    could be better coordinated. I have introduced the Streamlining
    Rural Broadband Act to consolidate the USDA's Community Connect
    grant program into the ReConnect program. Mr. Smith, if
    confirmed, will you commit to reviewing USDA's broadband
    programs to reduce that duplication and ensure that taxpayer
    dollars are targeted to truly connecting our unserved areas and
    underserved areas?
        Mr. Smith. [Off mic] resources and whether the resources we
    need are directed to USDA, but yes, a commitment to it. That is
    why I mentioned it in my opening comments. It would be a
    priority.
        Senator Ernst. Thank you. I look forward to voting on your
    confirmation.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Welch.
        Senator Welch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        You know, I had a very nice visit with you and really
    appreciated the time you took in my office. I share the concern
    about markets that Senator Ernst just spoke about. I think I
    also explained to you that in Vermont, we are really proud of
    the services that we have received from your agency. It has
    really made a difference for farmers. We are really worried
    about the staffing. I mean, this is something I brought up with
    you. In Vermont, we apparently have had the highest cuts of any
    regional office, and that is really worrisome to our farmers
    because they really think these guys do an excellent job. I do
    not know what you can do about that. I think they went way
    overboard on it.
        You know, we have the lowest staffing rate of any regional
    office in the country. It is operating, Mr. Smith, at 61
    percent of capacity, and that was last year before the office
    lost 12 more employees. Obviously, that was not anything you
    were involved in, but it is something you are going to have to
    deal with. What kind of assurance can you give to me on behalf
    of our Vermont farmers who really depend on that service that
    they are going to get the staffing that is absolutely essential
    to doing the job?
        Mr. Smith. Well, we absolutely need to be committed to that
    critical mission, Senator. As I told you, I have toured Vermont
    with young, beginning, and small program with the Farm Credit
    Administration----
        Senator Welch. You know, I get that. Here is the dilemma
    because, look, you are coming in. You are not in charge yet.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. You have got a lot of experience running a
    major organization, so----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch [continuing]. you have got the skills. The
    administration made a decision for other reasons, I think
    related to their view about spending.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. You seem sympathetic to my concern that
    there be adequate staffing.
        Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
        Senator Welch. You are going to be in a situation where you
    may want to do something, but you will have to get authority
    from other places in order to do it.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. I guess I am asking you how you navigate
    that. I do not have a reservation about your commitment to
    doing everything you can, but it is a real practical problem
    for anybody who is taking your job. We have not seen any sign
    that the administration is particularly concerned about re-
    upping adequate staffing in Vermont.
        Mr. Smith. Well, the first thing, and I learned this at
    Farm Credit Administration, is get the data. Get the objective
    data. Find out just what your staffing issues are because I do
    not know right now, Senator.
        Senator Welch. I will work with you on that.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. Maybe I am just putting you on notice that
    that is a concern.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. It comes from a place where we really
    value----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch [continuing]. what you do.
        A second thing is, last year, Congress had allocated $362
    million to the Disaster Assistance Fund, and Vermont is
    expecting to receive $31 million. We had floods in July of
    2024, July of 2023, and actually some floods in July of 2025.
    My understanding is that OMB released this funding to USDA in
    August, but where is the money? We do not have it in Vermont
    yet. Is that something you can help us out with?
        Mr. Smith. Senator, I promise I--if confirmed, I would
    check into that and be in----
        Senator Welch. Okay.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. direct contact with you----
        Senator Welch. Well, I would appreciate that, yes.
        Mr. Smith. Yes, a disaster, you need it----
        Senator Welch. Yes.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. now.
        Senator Welch. We really do. The Governor, you know, has
    been making efforts to get it, and so we are working together
    in that effort.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch. Also, I am working with my colleague,
    Senator Marshall, on the ReConnect program. I know you are
    really concerned about rural broadband and know----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Welch [continuing]. its importance, and my
    colleagues here in the Committee do as well. One of the things
    in that rural broadband program is that it would codify over
    100 megabit. Basically, the proposition that we have in that
    bill is that you should not get second-rate internet service
    just because you are in rural America. What are your thoughts
    about that?
        Mr. Smith. I could not agree with you more, Senator. You
    know I was the Chairman of the Board, CEO of the Farm Credit
    Administration, the regulator for a $600 billion farm credit
    system during COVID. There was times--there was some trying
    times, but I had to be in contact, in regular contact, and I
    had to have the speed necessary to do the video conferences----
        Senator Welch. Well, good.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. to do everything so----
        Senator Welch. That is what is important.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. I----
        Senator Welch. I am sorry.
        Mr. Smith. I understand the critical need for good rural
    broadband in rural America.
        Senator Welch. Yes, and not second-rate to----
        Mr. Smith. That is correct.
        Senator Welch [continuing]. the fancy cities that, you
    know, guys like Grassley prefer, you know.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. Okay.
        Senator Welch. Thank you.
        Mr. Smith. You are welcome.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Grassley.
        Senator Grassley. I am glad your roots are deep in rural
    America because you have been in this town long enough to know
    that this city is an island surrounded by reality, and I am
    glad to have some of your common sense. Been here for a few
    years.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Grassley. You have spoken a little bit about your
    work on the farm credit system. I know you know the importance
    of federal loan programs, and I think of rural hospitals as an
    example in this area, but I am not asking you just about rural
    hospitals. How will you use your experience at the Farm Credit
    Administration to improve loan functions at the USDA?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Senator, that question is something that
    was posed to us early on, to myself and fellow Board Member
    Hall, years ago, six, seven, eight years ago. How can we--as we
    are regulating these sophisticated financial organizations, we
    need to have to--we need to understand it. What we have done in
    IT to advance that, as I get to USDA, certainly, that will be
    one of the first questions I ask is where are we in FinTech, in
    financial technology? Are we able to deliver those programs as
    efficiently as possible today in today's world? Hopefully, that
    look at the IT, if there is improvement, will help solve, in
    part--cannot completely--but in part, the question on
    personnel, but it is something we will look at real closely
    when I get there, if confirmed.
        Senator Grassley. You have an ethanol plant in your
    backyard. I do as well. Iowa is home to 40 of these plants. We
    are a national leader in biofuels. Ethanol demand increases
    corn demand, supporting farmers. Do you agree that supporting
    ethanol--now, I know you cannot make decisions in this area, it
    is mostly in EPA, but----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Grassley [continuing]. you can sure be an advocate.
    Do you agree that supporting ethanol and other biofuels in turn
    support rural communities and that we should expand domestic
    production, use, and export markets for ethanol?
        Mr. Smith. I am an advocate, Senator, and I would actively
    support that and will continue to support that. Critical,
    critical to rural America that we continue to utilize our
    biofuels, critical to use our agricultural products and add
    value to them. Ethanol is probably the shining example and the
    shining success, I might add, in America today.
        Senator Grassley. Yes. Like you are not a policymaker in
    this area, but speaking up for Rural Development is very
    important. Do not wait for opportunities to come to you. Seek
    them out. This town is kind of ignorant about biofuels and
    ethanol. Maybe people in this room are not, because this is an
    Agriculture Committee room. Just remember that when you hear
    people pronounce ethanol, ee-thanol, you are talking to
    somebody that does not know much about the program.
        In Rural Economic Development Loan and Grant Program, you
    know that is a REDL&G program?
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Grassley. You know what I am talking about?
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Grassley. It is a critical tool for Iowa rural
    electric cooperatives. These loans and grants drive economic
    growth in rural communities that would otherwise not have
    access to financing for improvement and new projects. Will you
    work with my office and appropriators to ensure that the RECs
    are supported through the REDL&G program, REAP, and similar
    programs?
        Mr. Smith. I will, Senator. I will commit to that.
        Senator Grassley. Yes. I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Grassley.
        Ranking Member Klobuchar.
        Senator Klobuchar. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I
    apologize, Mr. Smith, for being late, and I thank our other
    Members for being here. I have had kind of a messed-up day. I
    went to the tariff argument at the Supreme Court, which was
    very interesting and good, and it went a lot longer than anyone
    thought. You cannot exactly jump up in the middle of the
    Supreme Court argument and put off the rest of the schedule.
        I do want to welcome you and your wife--there she is--and
    your children, your son-in-law, your granddaughter. I also
    wanted to recognize Farm Credit Administration Board Chairman
    Jeffery Hall. I thank Senator Ernst for introducing you. We had
    such a good meeting a while back.
        I just want to point out the importance of Rural
    Development right now. If we do come upon a moment where we can
    pass some kind of a farm bill, I think that is going to be one
    of the big reasons why we should do it.
        I know Senator Welch asked about staff losses in Vermont
    that we have seen all over the country. That is something
    really important to me. We talked about this, about you working
    to try to build up the staff again.
        We also have some issues, as I know you have heard of, with
    some of the broadband, electric co-ops, some of the projects
    that are going on that we want to make sure happen. Co-ops in
    Minnesota supply nearly 1/4 of our electricity. We are one of
    the biggest states, as we have talked about, for electric co-
    ops, which I love. They serve almost two million Minnesotans. I
    will hope that you will work with me on those projects.
        As we discussed last week, we also care a lot about high-
    speed internet, both out of the Commerce Committee flow of
    money and then also out of USDA, discussed rural healthcare,
    childcare, markets, and the like.
        I just have a few questions here. The first is we have
    very--most of us on this Committee have worked across the aisle
    to improve broadband access. The ReConnect Loan and Grant
    Program has delivered high-quality internet to rural areas,
    often partnering with electric and telephone co-ops. As Under
    Secretary, you will have a great deal of discretion over
    broadband funds at the USDA. Do you believe this program should
    prioritize speeds like those available in urban areas? How do
    you plan to ensure these programs are accessible to rural
    electric co-ops and other small rural providers?
        Mr. Smith. Thanks for the question, Senator. Yes, I do
    think it should have the same priority as urban broadband. We
    should have the same access to connectivity. It is the key for
    rural America to stay connected with the rest of the country,
    with the world. We have had success with ReConnect. The main
    thing we are going to look at is do we have the resources for
    ReConnect, and that is entirely up to you in Congress whether--
    where those resources are allocated. I can tell you that in
    Rural Development, we have that footprint in rural America that
    I think we can deliver.
        Senator Klobuchar. There are a lot of projects out there,
    already-awarded energy projects that have been frozen, and I
    hope that you will work with us to look at those projects. Some
    of them, interestingly enough, in Minnesota involve neighboring
    States of North Dakota and South Dakota, I think Iowa. Some of
    these projects, if you would be willing to look with us at
    them, they involve the electric grid, they involve all kinds of
    things that both Democrat and Republican Senators are
    interested in. When I looked at the list, I am like, whoa, for
    the ones that were frozen in Minnesota. I hope you will be
    willing to look at those with us.
        Mr. Smith. We should all work together for that, yes.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Very good. High blend biofuel
    infrastructure, Senator Ernst and I have worked on this at
    length and been successful in passing some things into law. Do
    you commit to reopening funding opportunities for high blend
    biofuel infrastructure and making sure the funds are spent on
    that?
        Mr. Smith. Yes, I do.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. That is wonderful. The housing,
    what are your affordable housing preservation strategies to
    keep existing properties in USDA programs?
        Mr. Smith. One thing, I think, Senator, that has become
    obvious to me, I had no idea the breadth and scope of Rural
    Development before I started looking into it. I did not realize
    how much they are involved in housing. Now, we probably cannot
    cure the problems of the high cost of building a new home or
    the high cost of major repairs, but we do offer grants, we do
    offer loans and loan guarantees to those parties that qualify
    at subsidized interest rates, so it is one step closer to
    affordability of rural housing.
        One thing I do hear from some states is the whole
    regulatory process, the permitting and the licensing of the
    contractors and all that becomes almost prohibitive and does
    add to the cost--can add to the cost of that house, maybe in a
    town of 1,200, which does not make sense in fitting in with
    possibly the federal regs. I would strongly encourage looking
    at somewhat of a deregulative structure to make sure that those
    homes can be built in the most efficient manner possible.
        The other thing, though, Senator, I would like to talk
    about is that 88 programs. I have lived in a rural community
    almost my whole life, not realizing the depth and scope of
    those programs. I think our visibility needs to be improved in
    rural America. I have talked to my Deputy Under Secretary, Neal
    Robbins, about that. He comes from the publication business and
    has some ideas on where we can get that word out, that there
    are programs in Rural Development--subsidized programs that
    allow low- and moderate-income people to invest in their dream
    of living in their own home.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Well, thank you very much. I see
    my colleagues are here to ask questions. I will save some time
    on the clock here. Thank you.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you.
        Senator Hyde-Smith.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
    Mr. Smith, for being here. Good to see you again. We had a nice
    visit before, and I appreciate all that you are willing to do
    for us.
        There are three things that I want to talk about today, and
    the first one is expanding some markets and opportunities for
    U.S. forestry timber products and improving rural water and
    wastewater infrastructure, and ensuring proper access to
    healthcare in rural America.
        In Mississippi, we have over 19 million acres of forest
    land, and we have 130,000 forest landowners, very important in
    Mississippi. The activity generates 84,000 jobs and $4.4
    billion in income annually. We are often referred to as the
    wood basket, but right now, the basket is full, and the bottom
    line is we need to expand existing markets and create new ones
    for our timber and our wood residuals.
        My colleagues and I are exploring ways to utilize existing
    USDA programs to support renewable energy systems that will
    strengthen rural communities through timber, through biomass,
    and there is really a significant opportunity there for us to
    encourage sustainable forest management practices and keeping
    our forests working to support local economics because it is a
    driving engine there, build markets that will ultimately serve
    our landowners and our rural businesses. Obviously, there will
    be challenges and costs to all of that.
        My question for you is, will you work with me going forward
    to strengthen these programs within USDA and Rural
    Development's mission area to support the forestry sector as we
    seek to create new and expanded markets for American timber and
    biomass?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Senator, thank you for that question.
    Regardless whether it is corn, cattle, soybeans, or timber,
    whatever business that Rural Development can support that adds
    value to that and adds a new market, Rural Development should
    be involved, should and could. Certainly, in the timber
    industry, I confess, I know it was part of our--part of the
    loan portfolio at Farm Credit, but I do not know a lot about
    it, so I would look forward to hearing more about it and
    looking forward to hearing about the industries that you think
    need support. I would say to your staff, make sure you are in
    contact with our staff and programs that would fit, because we
    need anything that adds markets for our domestic products, we
    need to support.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Well, thank you very much for that, and
    I do have some ideas that I want to get with you on.
        Mr. Smith. Very good.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. In our water systems across
    Mississippi, we have more than 1,000 water systems. Our towns
    and rural water associations are often understaffed, and they
    are working hard to keep the taps running and the wastewater
    safely disposed of. Many towns have infrastructure needs that
    far exceed their financial capabilities, which often requires
    rate increases that are insufficient or not feasible to comply
    with federal environmental regulations.
        The communities that need assistance most often do not have
    the financial resources to hire an experienced grant writer or
    provide technical expertise needed to apply for the various
    federal water and wastewater assistance programs. If confirmed,
    will you be mindful of the unique water-related challenges
    faced by many of our rural communities? Will you commit to
    working with me to eliminate as much unnecessary red tape as
    possible?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Rural Development has always played a key
    role in delivering clean, safe water to rural America, and
    anything I could do to influence and encourage that, I will.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Great. Thank you. Maybe get to my third
    one, ensuring proper access to healthcare in rural America. We
    farm and we have farming accidents and we use a lot of rural
    healthcare, but nearly half of all rural hospitals operate at a
    loss, and many have had to close their doors or discontinue
    certain services to stay afloat. Mississippi is a rural state,
    and it is critical that we maintain access to care,
    particularly those living in our rural communities.
        Rural Development administers the USDA Technical Assistance
    Program for rural hospitals, which has been a lifeline to
    helping hospitals manage their finances, and to prevent
    defaults on USDA loans, and to just simply keep their doors
    open. Through this program, Jasper General Hospital in Bay
    Springs, Mississippi, received technical assistance that really
    helped. It improved its financial performance, and it enhanced
    access to healthcare services in rural underserved areas.
        Since 2018, almost 120 rural hospitals across the country
    have participated in the program, with each project identifying
    significant ways to reduce costs and establish a more
    financially stable path forward. Would you please speak to the
    importance of this program for rural hospitals and how you plan
    to maintain and grow the program, which has proven effective in
    helping rural hospitals?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Senator, thank you for that question.
    Obviously, I stated earlier I recognize the importance of the
    rural hospital, and that is what kept groceries on the table
    and paid our electric bill for early years of our marriage, as
    my wife is an RN and retired now, proudly, but now she supports
    me.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. The Rural Development makes loans, grants, and
    guaranteed loans to build facilities. We--we are not involved
    in the operational lending. It is a whole different area,
    different from investing in facilities. You mentioned something
    that I thought was important to some of those rural hospitals
    is that they got technical assistance. I think that is where RD
    can help. Again, getting back--and I hate to be repetitive, but
    for something you feel strongly about and that connectivity of
    rural areas, that is so important.
        In order for those hospitals--let's say it is just an
    emergent care facility out 200 miles from a major hospital, a
    farmer comes in with a major accident, major injury, that he
    can get on the internet to one of the finest hospitals in the
    country and understand what to do until that patient can be
    transferred. That, to me, is things we need to investigate in
    rural America, and that is how Rural Development can help in
    that technology and that assistance in giving you the tools for
    that.
        Does that answer your question, Senator?
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Absolutely. Very, very critical. Again,
    I appreciate what you are willing to do for us, and I look
    forward to supporting you.
        Mr. Smith. You know, Senator, do you recall our
    conversation last week that I thought was--I mean, we talked
    about attracting doctors and professionals to rural areas,
    which is important and difficult. Number one, you have to have
    that quality of life to attract them in the first place. I know
    that Rural Development had a grant down in your state, and they
    were not medical doctors, they were veterinarians, which is
    very important to you and I's business, right? A grant to
    veterinarian college at Mississippi State to pay back tuition
    for students that stayed in the state and practiced large
    animal practice in the state, and that was a Rural Development
    grant. That is another way that we can encourage the type of
    services that we need so much in rural America.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Yes, you are so right because there is
    a shortage.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. No doubt.
        Mr. Smith. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you.
        Mr. Smith. Yes, ma'am.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you.
        Senator Lujan.
        Senator Lujan. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman.
        Mr. Smith, do you commit to follow the law?
        Mr. Smith. I am sorry, the question?
        Senator Lujan. Do you commit to follow the law?
        Mr. Smith. Yes, sir, of course.
        Senator Lujan. Do you commit to follow court orders?
        Mr. Smith. Of course.
        Senator Lujan. Are you a man that keeps your word?
        Mr. Smith. Am I what, sir?
        Senator Lujan. A man that keeps your word?
        Mr. Smith. I believe so sir.
        Senator Lujan. I appreciate that, sir.
        Mr. Smith. I would not be here if I was not.
        Senator Lujan. I appreciate that. I grew up on a small farm
    myself. I think there is a lot that you learn growing up in a
    small community.
        Mr. Smith. Sure.
        Senator Lujan. My colleagues get sick and tired of me
    talking about how my father would leave my rubber boots and my
    shovel outside the door when I would come home to visit, and
    that meant it was time to clean the barns.
        Mr. Smith. Okay.
        Senator Lujan. Now, people that giggle at this are the ones
    that have done it because----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan.--you know it is not the top layer that
    builds character, it is the second layer----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan.--that gets really ripe.
        Mr. Smith. Yes. I have wielded that shovel many times.
        Senator Lujan. I wish more of us did it, sir.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Lujan. Now, with that being said, Mr. Smith, you
    know, there is a difference of opinion, I think, with my
    colleagues and I on different sides of the aisle right now, and
    all that is going on with the President. The reason I asked
    about the court order is, as you know, at the end of last week,
    the courts had to say that the President had to roll out the
    SNAP funding because the President said he did not want to do
    it. I mean, heck, even Monday, after he said he would, he said
    he would not. Then his staff then correctly said, no, no, no,
    we are going to roll it out, but there is still a question
    about it.
        Now, the reason I bring that up, even though that is not
    your responsibility, sir, is one of the programs the Trump
    Administration canceled was a program to support local farmers
    and ranchers with food banks. It was called the Local Food
    Purchase Assistance Cooperative Agreement and the Local Food
    for School Cooperative Agreement, about a billion bucks. As you
    know, these agreements get entered into with local farmers and
    ranchers, and then they change how they are going to grow for
    the next year, what they are going to raise for the next year.
    They do not look for other customers because they know that
    they have one, and it got cut.
        I certainly hope that when you are at the table, Mr. Smith,
    that you stand up for the farmers and ranchers where we grew
    up, where you grew up, and just make sure that programs that
    help them, that we find a way to do it. Now, if there needs to
    be changes or adjustments based on leanings one way or the
    other, I am fine with that. My Republican colleagues in the
    majority, they are in charge. I get that. The program swings
    that way. In the end, farmers and ranchers should not get hurt
    arbitrarily because someone just had a whim about something, so
    I hope that is something we can agree on.
        One of the questions that I also have is, you know, in the
    healthcare space, I appreciate these questions being asked. One
    of the concerns that I have is in these rural health clinics, I
    do not know, 15 to 35 percent of the revenue comes from
    Medicaid beneficiaries. Earlier this year, my Republican
    colleagues passed a piece of legislation the President signed
    into law that takes almost a trillion bucks out of the program.
    That does not just hurt people. That is going to close rural
    clinics.
        Three years ago, I survived a stroke. Now, I always joke,
    this is what a stroke survivor looks like. If you have access
    to healthcare, if you get good doctors, if you have faith----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan.--if you have good family, people that help
    you understand, you have to have a positive way of getting
    better. I am very concerned with the way that things have been
    going with OMB and Mr. Vought, that a lot of these grants and
    things, they have just been getting stalled. Again, you know,
    not necessarily a question, sir. I just hope that is another
    area when, at the table because you will be in the room, you
    will be at the table with the Secretary and everyone else, that
    we say, hey, we have got to find a way to keep these rural
    clinics open so that when a farmer or someone gets cut by an
    implement or they are pulling out the bandsaw, man, and
    something happens and you have got to get in quick to be able
    to reconnect, that we get that done. I hope that we can find
    some time there.
        Now, in the last minute, I want to talk about electricity
    prices.
        Mr. Smith. Okay.
        Senator Lujan. You are aware of what rural electric co-ops
    are, Mr. Smith?
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan. You are aware of what G&Ts are, the
    generation and transmission components are?
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan. For everyone that does not, the G&Ts are the
    entities that actually generate the power, and they move the
    transmission to the smaller electric co-ops, and those are the
    ones that are called the distribution co-ops. Sorry for talking
    about it. I served on the Public Utility Commission before I
    came here, and I grew up as a member of a co-op. That is where
    my electricity comes from today.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan. One of the questions that was asked earlier,
    I think by Senator Klobuchar, she asked about some of these
    grants that were canceled to our G&Ts across the country. There
    is one that was canceled to a G&T that matters to us in New
    Mexico that resides in Colorado called Tri-State.
        What are your thoughts about the cancellation of these
    contracts that supported generation at these electric co-ops,
    which would arguably lower power for rural families that
    benefit from being a member of an electric co-op?
        Mr. Smith. Well, Senator, obviously, I am not there, so I
    am not familiar with that particular case. I----
        Senator Lujan. Let me ask the question this way, Mr. Smith.
    Is that something that you will commit to look into?
    Understanding that it is a Republican administration, they may
    have preferences over one generation or another----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan.--but if a local generation, G&T, which is
    made up of trustees from electric co-opinions----
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan.--it is not us. It is not partisan. As a
    matter of fact, these are real conservative folks for the most
    part.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Lujan. That if they choose that they want to do
    some generation in a certain area, that is something I would
    hope that we would all respect as well. Is this something that
    you will commit just to look into and see if there is a better
    way that we can go forward in looking at G&Ts across the
    country to support electric rural co-ops?
        Mr. Smith. I think that is part of the job, Senator.
        Senator Lujan. I appreciate that, sir.
        I appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all so much.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Smith, thanks for coming in and visiting with me
    earlier, and I appreciate you being here today. Of course,
    Rural Development is vital in rural America in so many ways, so
    this is a really important position.
        One of the things that we are working on in North Dakota is
    what we call Crack the Code 2.0. Crack the Code 1.0 was where
    we worked on developing directional drilling and hydraulic
    fracturing to produce oil from shale. Traditionally, that was
    not economically viable. Back during the time I was Governor,
    actually, we worked with a lot of innovative companies that
    came in and figured out how to do that.
        Now we are working on Crack the Code 2.0, which is actually
    trying to connect our coal-fired electric plants with the oil
    field, wherein we will take the CO2 off the coal
    plants, and then we will put it downhole for enhanced oil
    recovery. We think we can double the life of those coal plants
    at a time when we badly need electricity, and we can double the
    production out of the shale. Just in our state, that is over
    five billion barrels of oil that we have gotten so far. It has
    huge implications for energy not only for our state, but, you
    know, for the country, because if we can do it successfully in
    North Dakota, they will do it in the Permian Basin, in the
    shale play, in the Marcellus, in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and so
    on and so forth.
        The cooperatives are an important part of this effort, and
    Rural Development is an important part of this effort because
    of your credit programs. Talk to me about your commitment to
    make sure that with companies like Minn Kota, which is a
    cooperative in Minnesota and North Dakota, their project,
    Tundra, is heavily involved in this, and your credit programs
    play a big role, and I want to know if you support and how you
    will support that effort.
        Mr. Smith. Well, thank you, Senator, for that question. It
    would appear that the technology you are describing enhances
    more efficient oil production, cheaper oil that I think we all
    agree is good for the American consumer, and it benefits rural
    America, which is what we are all about at Rural Development. I
    think anything that reduces the dependency on foreign oil,
    encourages domestic production is something that we should look
    at strongly.
        Senator Hoeven. As you know, in rural America, I mean,
    cooperatives have been incredibly important, and your credit
    programs are incredibly important.
        Another area is hospitals. In the One Big Beautiful Bill,
    we included $50 billion to help our rural hospitals. One of the
    programs that we have used in North Dakota for our rural
    hospitals is the Rural Development Program for them to build
    new facilities, and combining that with the critical access
    reimbursement has enabled us to put first-class critical access
    hospitals out there in rural North Dakota, and they are doing
    well. They are serving their customers. Their customers tell me
    they would rather go to their hospital in their small community
    than go into the larger communities. It really works.
        Talk to me about the credit programs, and then also for our
    farmers, the credit programs are really important as well. One
    of the things we have really got to do more on is helping with
    rural housing. It is a big need out there. Talk to me about the
    healthcare, the hospitals, you know, some of the ventures for
    rural businesses, and then also, you know, for our farmers.
    Those programs, how are you going to, you know, use and
    expand--and for our livestock guys, for example, for creating
    more opportunities with small processing and that kind of plans
    for options, talk to me about what you can do there because
    that is a powerful range of tools that you have for all those
    uses.
        Mr. Smith. Let me take a breath here, Senator, and focus on
    which question I want to answer first.
        Senator Hoeven. Yes, exactly. Joni has been bragging you up
    now, so we have to get----
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. Let me talk, first of all, on your comments on
    healthcare and the success you have had in North Dakota. The--
    that is great to hear that critical-access hospitals are having
    a great deal of success and acceptance among their residents,
    and I would guess part of that is the personalized care.
        Senator Hoeven. Yes.
        Mr. Smith. They are not waiting in line for days or weeks
    or months. I know that--we had a close relative that was having
    some health issues, heart issues, and she could not get an
    appointment to get in and see a doctor for evaluation for two
    months in the city, and yet she clearly had some issues. At
    least at that critical care facility, you had somebody to look
    at her, number one, evaluate, and then, if need be, receive
    technical assistance from a larger facility, maybe a long ways
    away, but at least you are getting some--that patient is
    getting care right away. It does not have to be a huge
    facility. It does not have to be a $100 million facility to do
    that.
        I think what you are landing on is maybe a model that maybe
    we could take to other areas of the country. I know I had a
    long conversation with Senator Marshall in Kansas that had much
    the same type of model, and that is something that I think
    Rural Development should be fluent in, be able to discuss, and
    be able to encourage to the different state directors.
        Senator Hoeven. That model works.
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Senator Hoeven. You could have a real impact out there.
        Mr. Smith. Well, sharing best practices is something that
    we encouraged all the time on my position on the board with the
    Farm Credit Administration. That would be exactly what we would
    be looking at.
        As far as businesses, any business that supports the rural
    economy, obviously, we have got to be involved in. I mentioned
    earlier livestock, and how we have seen just a real explosion
    of branded farm- or ranch-to-consumer products in the next 10
    years. You cannot turn on the television without seeing a nice
    model of cattle, maybe in North Dakota, and then a nice steak
    sitting there----
        Senator Hoeven. Probably in Arkansas.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Hoeven. Don't you think? Probably in Arkansas.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Smith. I am sure Chairman Boozman would agree with
    that.
        Senator Hoeven. No, we have them in North Dakota too.
        Mr. Smith. Part of that is you cannot go to our huge
    packing plants and get the kind of service you need for that
    specialized consumer care, and that is where--and I think we
    have had a great--a good success, maybe just a start, but a
    good success in Rural Development in supporting those
    livestock--that livestock industry and those endeavors. Again,
    it is value-added----
        Senator Hoeven. Right on.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. because those producers, I am
    hoping--and I think get a good premium for their hard work, but
    it takes marketing and specialized plants to be able to turn
    out that product.
        Senator Hoeven. Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate the
    answers, and I think it is exciting opportunities that you can
    be part of out there, and I think you nailed it in how you
    talked about it.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for the questions.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you again, Mr. Smith, for appearing
    before the Committee. I think from the questions you could tell
    that there is a lot of interest in this particular position,
    how important it is for rural America, and for our Nation.
        I also want to thank Members for their participation today
    in this important hearing, and, as always, our staffs do a
    tremendous job in making it happen. The record will remain open
    for two business days.
        Today's hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:11 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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                                A P P E N D I X

                                November 5, 2025

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                             QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

                                November 5, 2025

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