[Senate Hearing 119-172]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 119-172

                  STRENGTHENING SERVICES FOR VETERANS
                  WITH SPINAL CORD INJURY AND DISORDER

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 17, 2025
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs 
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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                 SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut, 
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                Ranking Member
Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New 
Tommy Tuberville, Alabama              Hampshire
Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                     Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                     Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                     David Shearman, Staff Director
                Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director 
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           September 17, 2025

                                SENATORS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     1
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from 
  Connecticut....................................................     2
Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............    13
Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    14
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    17
Hon. Tammy Duckworth, U.S. Senator from Illinois.................    18

                               WITNESSES 
                               
                                Panel I

Shelly Hoover, EdD, Navy Veteran.................................     3

Mandi Bailey, Veteran ALS Action Committee.......................     5

Mary Ward, Veteran Spouse/Caregiver and Fellow, Elizabeth Dole 
  Foundation.....................................................     6

Robert L. Thomas Jr., National President and Chairman of the 
  Board, Paralyzed Veterans of America...........................     9

                                Panel II

Erica Scavella, MD, FACP, FACHE, Assistant Under Secretary for 
  Health for Clinical Services, U.S. Department of Veterans 
  Affairs accompanied by Manosha Wickremasinghe, MD, Executive 
  Director, VA's Spinal Cord Injuries and Disorders (SCI/D) 
  System of Care.................................................    22

                                APPENDIX 
                                
                          Prepared Statements

Shelly Hoover, EdD, Navy Veteran.................................    37

Mandi Bailey, Veteran ALS Action Committee.......................    39

Mary Ward, Veteran Spouse/Caregiver and Fellow, Elizabeth Dole 
  Foundation.....................................................    41

Robert L. Thomas Jr., National President and Chairman of the 
  Board, Paralyzed Veterans of America...........................    48

Erica Scavella, MD, FACP, FACHE, Assistant Under Secretary for 
  Health for Clinical Services, U.S. Department of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................    58

                        Questions for the Record

Department of Veterans Affairs response to questions submitted 
  by:

  Hon. Richard Blumenthal........................................    65
  Hon. Angus S. King, Jr.........................................    66
  Hon. Marsha Blackburn..........................................    67

                    Questions for the Record (cont.)

Shelly Hoover response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Richard Blumenthal........................................    69

Paralyzed Veterans of America response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan......................................    70

    Attachments for response to questions:

      SCI/D Long-Term Care Centers Priorities....................    72

      SCI/D Project Delays.......................................    75

                        Statement for the Record

Veterans Multiple Sclerosis Alliance (VMSA)......................    81

 
    STRENGTHENING SERVICES FOR VETERANS WITH SPINAL CORD INJURY AND 
                                DISORDER

                              ----------                              

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 2025

                                       U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4 p.m., in Room 
SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

    Present: Senators Moran, Cassidy, Tillis, Blumenthal, 
Hassan, King, and Duckworth.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
               CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Chairman Moran. Good afternoon. I need to end the silence 
in this room. We should be warm and welcoming, and we are glad 
you are here. I want to extend a particular welcome to all of 
our witnesses. Your presence and testimony are valuable as we 
work to fulfill our Nation's promise to care for those who 
served.
    Veterans, particularly those with spinal cord injuries and 
disorders, are a testament to courage and resilience. The 
challenges they face are immense and often lifelong. For many, 
a new and different journey begins the moment they return home 
or receive their life-changing diagnosis, one marked by 
physical and emotional hurdles that require specialized care, 
innovative technology, and a dedicated support system. The VA's 
Spinal Cord Injury and Disorder System of Care is a critical 
lifeline for these veterans, making certain they receive 
quality care when needed.
    During this hearing, we will examine the current state of 
the VA's SCI/D System of Care, identify where the VA is 
succeeding, and pinpoint areas where the VA should do better. 
We must make certain that the access to care and benefits is 
timely and efficient, that the VA is at the forefront of 
medical research and technology, and that veterans and their 
caregivers have the necessary resources and support they 
deserve.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses this morning--
I guess it is this afternoon--which include Shelly Hoover, a 
Navy veteran who has been living with ALS since 2013, and who 
will testify today using a speech generation device with eye-
gaze technology.
    Mandi Bailey, an ALS advocate who lost her Army veteran 
stepfather to ALS, and has since dedicated her efforts to 
supporting veterans with ALS and their caregivers.
    Mary Ward, a spouse and caregiver to her Marine Corps 
veteran husband, who has been living with ALS for 15 years.
    And Robert Thomas, an Army veteran and the National 
President of Paralyzed Veterans of America, which is the only 
veteran service organization dedicated to the veteran SCI/D 
community.
    These witnesses will provide firsthand accounts of the 
needs and challenges of living with spinal cord injuries and 
disorders and how the VA and this Committee can best support 
these veterans and their families. I thank you all for being 
here, for your service to our country, and for their continued 
advocacy on behalf of others.
    With that, I yield to the Ranking Member, Senator 
Blumenthal, for his opening remarks.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
         RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal. I join Senator Moran in thanking you 
for being here. I know that as caregivers and veterans of very 
deep and immediate experience with spinal cord injuries and 
disorders, the challenge of being here is probably even more 
difficult than for many of our other witnesses. And so, your 
being here has special meaning.
    I am glad we are focusing on a part of the veteran 
population that relies, probably more than any other group, on 
the VA. And that is a testament to the quality of the care that 
the VA provides. The employees who provide this kind of care 
are unmatched in the private sector, making these services 
extremely valuable but also vulnerable to the type of cuts and 
cancellations that we are seeing throughout the VA.
    And, as VA continues to bleed employees due to this 
Secretary's harmful policies, the services provided to people 
who are directly involved in SCI/D are particularly at risk. 
So, I think today's hearing is very, very timely and important. 
Veterans who receive these services from VA cannot easily 
transfer their care to community providers, where facilities 
are often inaccessible and providers rarely receive specialized 
SCI/D training. And the training is not a luxury; it is 
essential. It is dealing with severe, life-threatening 
complications that can arise from seeing a provider who is not 
sufficiently trained. And I am very disturbed at how Secretary 
Collins has failed to provide any credible assurances that he 
will fight to preserve access to SCI/D care at the VA, which, 
even before these cuts, needed bolstering and expanding.
    The Administration has left many veterans with SCI/D and 
their loved ones in limbo by failing to publish a rule to 
extend eligibility for participants in the Caregivers Program. 
And I think that is an immediate need that needs to be 
addressed. He has been slow-rolling implementation of the 
Elizabeth Dole Act, which would improve access to long-term 
care services for veterans with SCI/D. He is delaying 
implementation of critical funding increases for organizations 
that serve veterans experiencing homelessness. Congress 
intended these funds to help providers to keep their doors open 
and continue supporting veterans.
    On both of these provisions, we have been given a lot of 
assurances that immediate implementation was not only possible, 
but also a priority for the VA. We are here, months later, with 
no concrete implementation timeline for either authority. I 
wish we could be using today's hearing to discuss expanding 
SCI/D care at the Department of Veterans Affairs rather than 
just fighting to keep the status quo and asking the VA to 
implement laws Congress has already passed. We approved those 
laws. We worked hard on them. And the VA is failing to 
implement them because of the leadership, not because the 
dedicated, hardworking VA workforce has any reluctance to do 
so. They want to serve.
    So, I thank the Chairman for having this hearing and I look 
forward to hearing from you.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. Ms. Hoover, 
you are now recognized for your testimony. Thank you. Thank you 
for joining us, and thank you for communicating with us.

                            PANEL I

                          ----------                              

         STATEMENT OF SHELLY HOOVER, EDD, NAVY VETERAN

    Ms. Hoover. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and 
distinguished Members of the Senate Committee, thank you for 
the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Dr. 
Shelly Hoover, and I am a veteran of the United States Navy. 
For 12 years, I have been part of the Spinal Cord Injury and 
Disorder System of Care, and I stand here today as a testament 
to the lifesaving care provided by the Veterans Health 
Administration. This testimony is the culmination of a decade 
spent advocating for the more than 4,000 veterans currently 
living with ALS.
    My journey with ALS began in 2013. Initially, the VA's 
support felt focused on end-of-life care, a system designed to 
manage my death rather than empower my life. But I had a 
different plan. I proactively sought out an ALS multi-
disciplinary clinic and worked to redefine my path. That 
experience drove me to seek a seat at the table with the VA ALS 
Executive Committee, ALSEC.
    Working alongside a team of fellow advocates, we built a 
relationship of trust with the ALSEC. We urged them to make the 
ALS System of Care more user-friendly for veterans and their 
caregivers, and they listened. Under the visionary leadership 
of Drs. Ileana Howard and Sharyl Martini, the committee 
achieved significant improvements without any additional 
compensation for their work.
    Their dedication led to the creation of a network of ALS 
Coordinators, including nearly all of the 170 VA medical 
centers; a comprehensive website to help veterans and 
caregivers navigate their care; and an internal training 
program for new coordinators and other departments.
    This model, which integrates feedback from those with 
``boots on the ground'' experience, demonstrates the power of 
collaboration and mutual trust. It is a gold standard for 
enhancing the veteran experience and improving morale for VA 
employees who care so deeply for those they serve.
    Based on my lived experience, I offer two recommendations 
for continued improvement and future success:
    Recommendation 1: Empower Stakeholders. All departments and 
workgroups within the Spinal Cord Injury and Disorder system 
must develop trusting relationships with both internal and 
external stakeholders. As the ALSEC has demonstrated, this 
approach enhances employee morale, empowers stakeholders, and, 
most importantly, improves the quality of care and the overall 
experience for veterans.
    Recommendation 2: Ensure Full Funding. Congress must ensure 
the Veterans Health Administration is fully funded. In addition 
to budget cuts, congressionally allocated funds for special 
diagnoses, like ALS, cannot be spent due to VA-imposed hiring 
freezes and caps. Can that be corrected?
    These funding shortfalls have had a direct and devastating 
impact on my health and safety. I recently experienced severe 
complications after a VA pharmacy, due to budget cuts, was 
unable to provide the liquid form of a prescribed chemotherapy 
drug. I suffered severe burns across my chest and pelvic 
region, an extreme and avoidable outcome. Delays are now a 
constant risk. For example, my replacement mic-key button, used 
for feeding and medications, is over a month late. How long 
before my current one breaks down and my stoma becomes 
infected?
    Life-sustaining breathing and nutrition supplies that were 
once readily available now face delays of weeks or even months. 
For a person with my condition, this is not just an 
inconvenience, it is a grave threat. I will not die from ALS. I 
will likely die from infection, a risk dramatically increased 
by these supply delays.
    Some may suggest that private Community Care is the 
solution, noting its budget was recently doubled. However, with 
one exception, my personal experience has been a disaster. I 
have endured 6-month delays and lost referrals, forcing my 
husband to spend countless hours on the phone. In one instance, 
a private medical office initially refused to treat me due to 
my tracheostomy, a clear violation of my rights.
    By contrast, I have never experienced a delay or faced 
discrimination from the Durham VA Medical Center. It is clear 
to me that the VA is the best choice for veterans.
    My family's legacy is deeply tied to military service, with 
eight of my immediate family members having served in the Army, 
Navy, and Marines. I am profoundly grateful for the exceptional 
care the VA provides, and my grandchildren are thankful that I 
am still here because of it.
    To continue this gold standard of care, the Spinal Cord 
Injury and Disorder system must actively seek input from 
external stakeholders. And, above all, Congress must fully fund 
the VA to protect the health and lives of current and future 
veterans. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Hoover appears on pages 37-
38 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Thank you very much for your 
testimony and your service.
    I now recognize Ms. Bailey.

                   STATEMENT OF MANDI BAILEY,
                  VETERAN ALS ACTION COMMITTEE

    Ms. Bailey. Hello and thank you for the opportunity to 
speak before you today. My name is Mandi Bailey, and I am the 
team lead of the ALS Hope Foundation's Veteran ALS Action 
Committee, a volunteer group of veterans and caregivers that 
have been impacted by ALS.
    ALS is a 100 percent fatal disease with no known cure. And 
for reasons not yet fully understood, our veterans are at a 
significantly higher risk of developing ALS. My family got a 
crash course in ALS and VA care when my stepdad, a proud 
veteran, was diagnosed in 2017. Our local VA in Pensacola, 
Florida, is under-resourced and understaffed, but they did 
everything they could to ensure my stepdad was able to live his 
life with dignity until his passing on February 2, 2018.
    Because of the lack of services and resources at our VA, we 
had to use community care in addition to the services we 
received at the VA. In our opinion, the care we received inside 
the walls of our local VA Medical Center was far superior to 
the community care we received.
    I soon learned that we are not alone in that opinion. In 
2024, a survey was conducted by the VA's Veteran Experience 
Office, and that revealed the highest trust levels in years. 
Our veterans know that by receiving care at the VA, they will 
be treated with the dignity and the respect they deserve as 
U.S. veterans.
    But it was not always this way. The VA has worked very hard 
to improve the care that they provide, and the ALS System of 
Care, much of the progress has come from allowing the 
stakeholders, like myself, to give feedback and being open to 
the input and ideas from the community. Dr. Ileana Howard, 
Director of Neurology for ALS, has done a tremendous job of 
listening, and has made considerable improvements by doing so. 
She has brought the voice of the veteran to the table, and it 
has made an immeasurable difference.
    While it is important to recognize how far the VA has come 
in its care for veterans, we know that there is still room for 
growth. In 2021, the VA issued a VHA Directive, 1101.07, 
Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis System of Care, and recently a 
comprehensive ALS Handbook. The problem is that, one VA is one 
VA. The services and resources at one VA are not the same as 
the services and resources at another.
    For example, my team co-lead, Jill Brattain's husband, 
Dave, received top-notch care at the Richard Roudebush VA in 
Indianapolis during his ALS journey. Their team was proactive, 
knowledgeable, and responsive to their needs. The care that 
Jill and Dave experienced is why the VA was called the ``Gold 
Standard'' in a recent report from the National Academies of 
Science, Engineering, and Medicine.
    In contrast, our care was held up by red tape, lack of 
knowledge, and scarce resources. Our team did what they could, 
and we are grateful, but there was so much we missed out on 
because of our ZIP Code. Consistency of care cannot happen 
without proper funding and support. Veterans and their families 
deserve uniformly high care throughout the VA.
    Additionally, that same National Academies report that 
praised the care provided by the VA should also serve as a 
wake-up call. We need to fund research that will give us 
answers as to what is causing our military veterans to be 
diagnosed at higher rates, and what we can do to prevent and 
possibly cure this disease.
    When you are diagnosed with ALS you quickly learn that the 
treatment options are few, and the options that are there might 
only buy you a few months. Many times the focus shifts to 
finding ways to remain engaged in life. Veterans are fortunate 
that the VA provides many of the tools they need to do this. 
Eye gaze computers, home modifications, and wheelchairs are 
just a few of the ways that the VA helps our veterans continue 
to have the best quality of life.
    VA providers go above and beyond to help our veterans 
living with ALS find ways to do things they love, and are a 
critical part of caring for our veterans, not just for their 
physical health, but for their mental and emotional well-being. 
Veterans already carry a higher risk of suicidal ideation, but 
a veteran that was diagnosed with ALS, their risk goes up 
almost four times.
    Staying engaged in the world has a big impact on the mental 
health of a veteran. I have seen the impact firsthand. My dear 
friend and veteran living with ALS, Dr. Mary Porter, was 
feeling the weight of her diagnosis. Life was difficult, and 
she was bracing for the inevitable until she was encouraged to 
try her hand at art. That lifted her spirits, and she decided 
to see what else she could do. Fast forward to February of this 
year when she not only participated in the Invictus games, but 
she earned a gold medal. Now she is still active, finding new 
adaptive sports to try, and encouraging other veterans to do 
the same.
    Protecting the services provided to our veterans can and 
will save lives. We strongly suggest exemptions from hiring 
caps for these positions funded by congressionally mandated 
programs.
    I would like to leave you with the words of Brigadier 
General Thomas Mikolajcik from his congressional testimony on 
ALS in 2007. ``If these soldiers were dying on the field rather 
than at home as a result of their service, we would leave no 
stone unturned. We would use the best existing resources and 
programs to make sure they had whatever they needed to survive, 
to ensure that no man or woman is left behind.'' Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bailey appears on pages 39-
40 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Ms. Bailey.
    And now, Ms. Ward, you are recognized for your testimony.

 STATEMENT OF MARY WARD, VETERAN SPOUSE/CAREGIVER AND FELLOW, 
                   ELIZABETH DOLE FOUNDATION

    Ms. Ward. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. My 
name is Mary Ward, and I am the wife and full-time caregiver 
for my husband, Tom----
    Chairman Moran. Pull the microphone closer to you. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Ward. I am the wife and full-time caregiver for my 
husband, Tom, a Marine Corps veteran diagnosed with service-
connected ALS over 15 years ago. I am also a 2016 Elizabeth 
Dole Foundation Fellow.
    I would like you to pause and think of a simple pleasure 
you enjoy. For me, it has long been a Starbucks Vanilla Bean 
Frappuccino--three pumps of vanilla, fat-free milk, and whipped 
cream. For years, I thought the joy was in the ritual. But this 
past July, I realized I had redefined what it means to me. Now, 
it comes when I drink that Frappuccino, knowing there is a 
nurse at home with my veteran husband, ensuring he is safe and 
supported. In that moment, I am not a caregiver. I am me, doing 
something normal. That is the gift of respite. And it only took 
us eight years to get there.
    To understand the importance of long-term care support, it 
helps to know our journey. In 2010, Tom was diagnosed with ALS, 
and in 2013, with Type 2 diabetes. He is rated 100 percent 
permanently and totally disabled. A typical day includes 
helping him from his bed to his wheelchair, checking his blood 
glucose frequently, responding to alarms, getting him showered 
and dressed, administering medications, assisting him with 
eating, and doing cough assist to help him clear mucus from his 
lungs.
    Over the years we have experienced numerous struggles and 
small victories. For example, shortly after his diagnosis, the 
VA denied the Specially Adaptive Housing (SAH) grant and 
adaptive vehicle grant because Tom was not yet rated 100 
percent. Despite having been diagnosed with a progressive 
terminal disease, it took two years before a policy change 
shifted that rated him to 100 percent.
    During that same period, the VA did give him a power 
wheelchair, but it stayed in the garage because we didn't have 
a handicap accessible home or vehicle that could accommodate 
it. Finally, after the wheelchair was delivered, the VA 
approved this vehicle grant.
    Knowing the destructive nature of ALS, we got busy 
developing a plan for my future as a widow. In 2010, we moved 
from Durham to Wilmington to downsize and save money, and I 
accepted a virtual teaching position. And when I did that I 
left my State retirement behind. Finally, in 2013, the VA 
approved Tom for the SAH grant, but that didn't mean our wait 
was over. From start to finish, it took 27 months to make the 
house accessible. It is not a process I would want to repeat.
    In 2016, we enrolled in the VA's Home-Based Primary Care 
Program (HBPC). However, because we no longer lived in the 
catchment area for Durham services, we would only have access 
through the Wilmington CBOC. If we chose Wilmington, we could 
no longer directly access the superior ALS care available at 
the Durham VA. We had to choose. After a series of mishaps due 
to the situation, including the inability to address a 
malfunction with Tom's non-invasive ventilator, we made the 
difficult choice to give up HBPC and move all care to Durham.
    After learning about Veteran-Directed Care (VDC), I decided 
to apply for Tom. VDC is an innovative program that offers the 
veteran a budget for personal care services and allows more 
flexibility and control for his or her care. And even though I 
knew another veteran enrolled in the VDC through the Durham VA, 
I was repeatedly told by a social worker that it simply did not 
exist there, and I let it go. I didn't have the energy to take 
on another battle while caring for Tom and dealing with his 
increasing health complications.
    I eventually tried again, but my attempts to access VDC 
were foiled until last year, when we were enrolled. 
Unfortunately, this still does not mean we received any 
services. When I asked for a timeline regarding funding, the 
response was, ``30 days, 60 days, 90 days, I just don't know.'' 
With that lack of certainty and seemingly zero sense of 
urgency, we reluctantly withdrew from the program.
    Recently, I realized I couldn't do it alone anymore. His 
ALS progression was more pronounced, his diabetes grew more 
complex, and I didn't realize how exhausted I was from the last 
few years of 24/7 caregiving. Together with the Elizabeth Dole 
Foundation, we pursued skilled nursing care as a possible 
alternative. At first I doubted Tom would qualify. He has 
multiple complex diagnoses, but he is not ventilator-dependent, 
which seems to be the criteria.
    Finally, after the intervention of leadership, the VA 
approved skilled nursing care. A long time ago, someone asked 
Tom about me as his caregiver, and he said, ``She is my wife 
first and caregiver second.'' That had insidiously changed over 
the last few years. The benefit of respite for me is clear. 
Because of it, the care I provide Tom is exponentially better. 
My sense of humor and joy has returned. At the end of the 
nurse's shift, I look forward to seeing him.
    Just last week, one of our nurses discovered Tom's blood 
pressure was running high, despite medication. This finding 
likely prevented a crisis.
    I share our story because while we have finally found the 
proper support, it should not have taken eight years, 
relentless advocacy, and national-level intervention to get 
here. Too many caregivers give up before they reach this point. 
They go unseen, unsupported, and burned out. Simply put, 
veterans suffer when their caregivers suffer.
    I hope you will note the recommendations I outlined in my 
written testimony, especially the need to promote effective, 
proactive, and comprehensive care coordination.
    For those with devastating injuries and illnesses, long-
term care support, especially respite, is not a luxury. It is 
essential--for caregivers, for families, and for the veterans 
who depend on us.
    I am grateful for the nurses who now come into our home, 
for the Elizabeth Dole Foundation's relentless advocacy, and 
for the VA staff who have stood by us. But the care we now 
receive should not be the exception reached only after years of 
struggle. It should be the standard. For every Frappuccino 
moment I now enjoy, there are thousands of caregivers still 
waiting for that moment to take a breath. Please make it 
possible for them to find joy again, and to see and feel that 
they matter, too. Their veterans' care, and sometimes their 
lives, depend on it. Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Ward appears on pages 41-47 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Ms. Ward.
    And now, Mr. Thomas. Thank you.

   STATEMENT OF ROBERT L. THOMAS JR., NATIONAL PRESIDENT AND 
      CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, PARALYZED VETERANS OF AMERICA

    Mr. Thomas. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and 
Members of the Committee, I appreciate the opportunity to speak 
to you today on behalf of Paralyzed Veterans of America about 
the strengths and weaknesses of the VA care for veterans with 
Spinal Cord Injuries or Disorders, or SCI/D.
    When I testified before the Committee in March, I expressed 
our frustration with the existing state of the SCI/D system and 
concerns about its future. We have relayed some of our biggest 
concerns to Secretary Collins, and he has signaled to us that 
the VA's specialized services and the care of catastrophically 
disabled veterans are a priority in this Administration. But 
they can't do it alone. Your leadership and support are needed 
to preserve and strengthen the SCI/D System of Care, and all VA 
care for catastrophically disabled veterans.
    PVA firmly believes VA is the best health care provider for 
disabled veterans, particularly those with catastrophic 
disabilities. More importantly, our members consistently choose 
VA.
    Recently, a PVA member expressed this sentiment when he 
relayed that while has had surgery in the community, the VA 
doctors he sees at the Dwight D. Eisenhower VA Medical Center 
in Leavenworth, Kansas, understand the full nature of his 
trauma, and they provide the tailored support with post-surgery 
rehab and long-term support that increase his quality of life. 
Another PVA member in Colorado shared his contrasting 
experience between VA and community emergency room visits 
following a severe flare-up of MS. VA published his story, and 
I strongly encourage you to read it.
    PVA has three primary concerns about the ability of VA's 
SCI/D System of Care to continue serving veterans both now and 
in the future. These concerns are ongoing staffing vacancies, 
delayed infrastructure improvements, and the continued shortage 
of specialty, long-term care beds.
    Staffing levels for the SCI/D System of Care are detailed 
in VHA Directive 1176. The requirements outlined in this 
directive are based on the level of care needed to maintain the 
health and well-being of veterans with SCI/D. Unfortunately, VA 
leaders have long treated these as optional rather than 
directives based on best care standards. As a result, VA can 
only staff a nominal number of beds in some locations.
    The impact of such practice is profound, causing severe 
delays in critically needed routine care, including annual 
exams and respite, as well as acute care needs. Such delays 
have real consequences for veterans who need care now. The VA 
must be able to staff to the level needed to serve veterans 
with SCI/D.
    We also need new approaches to recruiting medical 
professionals in hard-to-recruit locations. Furthermore, the 
bureaucratic hiring process must be streamlined to allow 
professionals to be identified and onboarded as quickly as 
possible.
    Secondly, we are concerned about delayed infrastructure 
improvements. VA's SCI/D System of Care is comprised of 25 
acute care centers and 6 long-term care centers, with an 
average age of nearly 40 years old. Many of the older centers 
have only had minor cosmetic renovations. More than a dozen 
SCI/D-related construction projects on the SCIP list continue 
to go unfunded year after year.
    In reviewing VA infrastructure, decision-makers must 
remember that VA's SCI/D System of Care is unique, and not 
replicated outside the VA. We believe VA should return to the 
practice of placing greater emphasis on funding facilities that 
support the types of services like SCI/D care, which the 
Department uniquely provides. Investment in these areas would 
greatly strengthen VA's specialty care services and ensure 
their future availability.
    Finally, our Nation's lack of adequate long-term care 
options is an enormous problem for people with catastrophic 
disabilities. There are very few long-term care facilities that 
are capable of appropriately serving veterans with SCI/D. With 
less than 180 beds, VA's six existing SCI/D long-term care 
facilities are not enough for the tens of thousands of veterans 
with SCI/D. Expanding projects, provide additional beds would 
be a good first step to ensuring quality care.
    Many PVA members also depend on VA home and community-based 
services throughout their lives. We are very appreciative of 
Congress' passage last year of the Senator Elizabeth Dole Act. 
We need you to exercise your oversight authority to ensure the 
measure is implemented as Congress intended.
    Thank you for the opportunity to present our views this 
afternoon. I will be happy to answer any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Thomas appears on pages 48-
57 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Let me ask you, just 
that last sentence you indicated. Is the implementation far 
enough along, of the Elizabeth Dole Act, that you know of 
instances where we need to be exercising our oversight 
authority to get something on the right track that seems to be 
on the wrong track?
    Mr. Thomas. Thank you. That is a great question. So there 
are some limitations to the Veteran-Directed Care that come up 
through the Elizabeth Dole Act that we hear it is implemented 
all throughout the VA but individual members and all, that try 
and get on the program, are not able to get on the program 
because it is not at their VA facility.
    Chairman Moran. That is really important for us to know. 
The Elizabeth Dole Act, I think, is, again, one of the more and 
most significant pieces of legislation this Committee has 
enacted, but implementation is hugely important, and we will 
continue to work with you and PVA to make certain that that, 
and other instances, are brought to the VA's attention for 
correction. Make sense?
    Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir.
    Chairman Moran. Let me ask you, Ms. Ward, caregivers, 
especially for those with spinal cord injuries or disorders, as 
you indicated face major physical, emotional, and financial 
strain. You talked about respite care programs and they fall 
short. What reforms, changes would you suggest need to be 
pursued to make certain that caregivers receive adequate 
support without compromising their own health and well-being?
    Ms. Ward. Well, I think that is where I think about the 
coordination of care. Personally, I am in the PCAFC program, 
and I access my caregiver support coordinator for respite care, 
to come here today, to get approval for that. And I only know 
that I have approval for that, that I could get approval for 
that, because the Elizabeth Dole Foundation worked with me to 
get the nursing care that my husband needed.
    But I did not know who to ask to get that done, and that is 
a problem. And I should know. We are 15 years into this 
disease. I should know. And believe me, I know a lot about the 
VA and the bureaucracy and the challenges. But there is a point 
at which I am busy being a caregiver. I am busy trying to keep 
this guy alive, and I can't do all that.
    So I need somebody at the VA who I can say, hey, I need 
this help. Do you understand what this program is? Can you get 
Veteran-Directed Care? Can you get long-term care for us? What 
can we do? How can you help me do the job that I need to do?
    Chairman Moran. You are actively engaged in the Elizabeth 
Dole Foundation. Tell me what services are offered that others 
ought to know about, someone in the same position you have been 
in. Where should they turn for help?
    Ms. Ward. Well, if they are not in PCAFC, I do not have an 
answer for that. I do not know who they would go to. If you are 
in the Veteran ALS lane--let's call it that--in the VA, there 
is an ALS Coordinator at many of the VAs, and think Mandi 
Bailey probably can speak about that a little bit better than 
me. I do not access the ALS Coordinator because I actually knew 
more than our ALS Coordinator at first. So I could do her job 
or still be Tom's caregiver.
    Chairman Moran. Well, let me ask Ms. Bailey that question. 
I recognize--I think we recognize that the VA--let me just put 
it this way, many veterans do not know what services they are 
entitled to, do not know what is available. Obviously, 
communication is important, but particularly for caregivers. 
Tell me how you think we can help provide the information 
necessary to get people to the resources that they need?
    Ms. Bailey. In my opinion, a lot of it is going to come 
down to funding and support. In our area, we are a very 
underserved, under-resourced area. So everything that we did 
pretty much felt like it was sent out to the community care. 
The ALS Coordinator position is a fairly new thing that has 
been brought about. I believe that came in with the VHA 
Directive 1101.07. It was not around when my stepdad was going 
through ALS. For us it was calling our caseworker. And because 
of the understaffed nature of the VA where we live, sometimes 
it was hard to get a call back because she was busy herself, 
taking care of the many, many, many other families and veterans 
that she had to contend with.
    So honestly, I think a lot of that is going to come down to 
funding and support. Our VA, last I heard, was 140 percent of 
capacity. They are wildly, wildly understaffed for what they 
are dealing with. They do not have the resources and time 
available while they are in those walls, doing their job, to be 
able to answer all those phone calls and get people connected 
with the resources that they need, and do the research to find 
out where they need to be sent.
    So again, funding and support. Our VAs desperately need 
that funding and support to do their jobs the way that our 
veterans deserve.
    Chairman Moran. With that, let me call on the Ranking 
Member.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Again, thank you all for 
being here and for your excellent testimony. We have heard 
about community care providers outside the VA presenting 
accessibility challenges when SCI/D veterans or others who are 
non-ambulatory, disabled, or have complex health needs, try to 
get access to those private, non-VA facilities. I wonder if you 
could talk a little bit, from your experience, what you have 
seen or heard, Ms. Bailey, and others on the panel.
    Ms. Bailey. We were sent to the community to get our care, 
first to see a neurologist. At that point, there was not an on-
staff neurologist at our local VA. Thank goodness there are 
now. We have a fantastic neurologist at our local VA. 
Unfortunately, they were not there for us.
    It did take some time to get put into the schedule to see 
the neurologist, and we were his first people that he had dealt 
with ALS. When you are dealing with ALS, you want somebody who 
has knowledge, not somebody who says, ``You know, this is the 
first time I've dealt with that.'' That was really, really 
difficult for us. It is scary. It is so scary.
    We are grateful that he was willing to learn, but the care 
that was in the community was nothing like the care that we 
received at the VA. They at least knew what ALS was, and 
although it was held up by red tape and all of the limitations 
that they had, it was still far superior to the care that we 
received. We even had to go out of our VA when he needed his 
feeding tube done. We had to go to Biloxi, which is several 
hours away. That is a really difficult drive when you are 
taking care of somebody living with ALS who cannot move their 
arms and legs. You are the only person who is able to do that 
for them. And then you have to turn around and drive home the 
same day.
    I cannot say that the community care in our area would have 
been much better. Again, lack of knowledge is a huge, huge 
problem. They do not understand the complex needs of ALS like 
the VA providers would.
    Senator Blumenthal. Others?
    Mr. Thomas. Yes. In addition to what Ms. Bailey just said, 
a lot of the community facilities do not have the adequate 
amount of wheelchair space when you go in there, or the proper 
equipment to move an individual in a wheelchair over to the 
exam tables or even give them a good X-ray. So we run into that 
issue all the time.
    Senator Blumenthal. I want to ask about mental health. I 
have a bill that is called the BRAVE Act, which includes a 
provision requiring the VA to establish a pilot program to 
ensure VA residential rehabilitation treatment programs. These 
are, in effect, inpatient, residential treatment, including for 
mental health. Maybe you can comment on the need for both 
inpatient and other kinds of mental health treatment programs.
    Ms. Bailey. As I mentioned in my testimony, when you are 
diagnosed with ALS, as a veteran, your suicidal ideation risk 
goes up tremendously. Mental health, while it is addressed--
typically there is a questionnaire or they are asking several 
questions to kind of assess how you are doing--I think there is 
a bigger need to address the mental health needs of veterans 
with spinal cord injury and disorder, especially in ALS. When 
you are given a terminal diagnosis it changes your entire 
outlook on the world.
    My stepdad wanted to take his life because it became too 
much for him, and he did not, and I am thankful for that. But I 
wish that there had been more of a focus on mental health. I 
wish that he had had somebody like my friend, Dr. Mary Porter 
had, that would have encouraged him to try new things and to 
see that he could live with ALS, and you are not dying of ALS. 
I think that is a really important thing that needs to be 
addressed in the mental health area for ALS.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Any others? Thank you. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Tillis.

                       HON. THOM TILLIS,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Ward, welcome 
to the Committee. You may not know that I am actually sitting 
in the seat that was occupied by Senator Dole back in the day, 
and I am very proud of the work that she continues to do in 
this and so many other areas. So welcome to the Committee.
    Before I ask a few questions, first, Dr. Hoover, we are 
going to be submitting for the record some questions that I 
would like to get from you, in terms of, sort of the fabric 
that has to come together to provide a network and supporting 
people suffering from this horrible disease.
    And before I start there though, a couple of weeks ago I 
was walking down the hallway--I grew up in a family of six kids 
so I know how to like hear a lot of voices at once. I heard a 
Capitol Police officer say he was going to have to file an 
appeal or try to figure out a way to get care himself, not in 
this space. But I went up to him and asked him, I said, ``Have 
you contacted your Congressman?'' He is not from North 
Carolina. I said, ``But look, I want to help you out. But make 
sure that you are using every available resource before you 
start spending money.'' Which is why in the last Congress, I 
proposed the Patriot Bill of Rights, which is to make 
absolutely certain that any veteran knows that before you spend 
a dime on an attorney or even other support organizations, you 
put a call in to your U.S. Senator, put a call in to your 
Congressman.
    What I wanted to do, and I have run into a little bit of 
pushback, mainly from people who benefit from patriots not 
knowing this, is to make sure before you sign an agreement with 
somebody who is going to act on your behalf and charge you for 
that fee, that you know what options are available that are not 
subject to a charge, like a U.S. Senator who is hell-bent on 
trying to clear cases, before you have to go anywhere else. 
That is what I do in North Carolina.
    So we are going to reintroduce the Patriot Bill of Rights. 
It is pretty straightforward. If you are going after Camp 
Lejeune toxics, or you are trying to help somebody, I want a 
piece of paper down there that says these options were 
available to you. If you have not used them, you may want to, 
before some of the benefits that you have worked hard for and 
deserve go to somebody else representing on your behalf.
    We cannot close all cases. Some of them have to be 
adjudicated, and there is an appropriate place. But I do think 
that there are some organizations out there that hope they get 
a good outcome for the veteran they are representing, but 
frankly, they also want a good outcome for their pocketbook.
    So in the remaining time I have here, Ms. Ward, spread the 
word in North Carolina. I have 473 days before I retire, and I 
am not counting those days because I am counting the days to 
get out of here, that is how much more time I have to help.
    Ms. Bailey, and to everyone, I have a personal story on 
caregiving. I know how hard it can be. Even that coffee break, 
your testimony was very compelling. I believe everybody in the 
VA wants to do the right thing, but we are doing things 
inconsistently, and we are doing things on an uninformed basis. 
We do not need somebody providing care to a very specific 
disease that has very specific protocols for trying to provide 
the best care. We do not want somebody doing on-the-job 
training, to your point, Ms. Bailey.
    There are good stories to be told, even in North Carolina. 
But the variation between just facilities within our State, and 
the variation across the country is unacceptable. I worked in 
management consulting for my entire career before I got into 
public service. There is such a thing as best practices. And 
what I would like you all to think about, from your respective 
organizations, let's shine some light on best practices that 
are going on in the VA, and then put pressure, that is 
oftentimes a resource issue.
    But let's put pressure on everybody measuring up to what 
that best practice looks like, and let's make sure that the 
Secretary, who I have great confidence in, and everybody in the 
VA--I mean, people are working hard, but it is all about 
resource, connections, and setting high expectations and 
measuring the results.
    So I am not going to ask you any questions here in the 
Committee, but we will be submitting some questions for the 
record to say how do we do it? How do we find one in every 
State, if there is a best practice, to say that every VISN 
should have a best practice model, and if they do not, we need 
to have one, in this case, and several others.
    And count me in, in my remaining time to do everything I 
can to help. And in the meantime, count me in to make sure that 
every veteran knows, if they cannot even get a good response 
from a Congressman or a Senator from their State, we will work 
with those Senators first. We will do the casework in North 
Carolina for anybody. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Tillis, thank you. You took me by 
surprise claiming the Dole seat because I thought, no, that is 
me.
    [Laughter.]
    Chairman Moran. Wrong Dole. Senator Hassan.

                   HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I 
appreciate you and the Ranking Member having this hearing 
today. To our witnesses, thank you so much for testifying 
before us today and for your service to our country and to our 
veterans.
    Ms. Bailey, I want to start with a question for you. First, 
my condolences for your family's loss. I did not know your 
stepfather but I am confident that he would be proud of your 
advocacy for veterans.
    Your testimony touched upon an issue that I think is really 
important which is, access to high-quality care when you need 
it and where you need it. And in response to questions from 
Senator Blumenthal, you mentioned that after your stepfather's 
ALS diagnosis he had to use community care in addition to the 
care he received at the VA because of the lack of resources 
available. And you talked about the impact, you know, the lack 
of experience of that community care provider.
    But this is beyond an individual profile of a particular 
condition or disease. My concern, because I am from New 
Hampshire, which does not have a full-service VA hospital, and 
also has a very high rural population of veterans who live far 
away from the nearest VA facility. Can you just expand on how 
veterans are affected when they cannot get all of the care that 
they need through a VA that is practically accessible to them?
    Ms. Bailey. There are a lot of things that can happen. 
First and foremost, I think there is kind of a mental aspect to 
it. At the VA, it is a culture. Our veterans like being at the 
VA. They prefer it, because those people understand them. Many 
of the VA providers and employees are veterans themselves, and 
there is a unique bond that veterans have and that trust that 
they have. So I think that is a big thing right there to look 
at.
    You know, the lack of knowledge in these conditions like 
ALS, that is very, very important to address. And I think that 
having that in our family, and being sent to the community to 
get the care, it was frustrating. Our family questioned, should 
we even go back to this doctor? And that is dangerous when you 
are dealing with ALS. There are a lot of things that you need 
to consider--feeding tubes, breathing options, PT, OT, 
respiratory care. You need to make sure you are taking all of 
those things into account. And if you are sent to a community 
care physician or provider that does not really understand your 
condition, you are not as likely to go back and continue that 
care. And you have a problem with, well, is this going to go 
downhill a lot faster? What is this going to do?
    So I think that making sure, even at those VAs that are not 
a full service, they are knowledgeable enough in the community 
to know--where should I send these people that know about ALS, 
that are going to treat my veterans the way they deserve to be 
treated; that are going to treat them like I would? So that is 
something to really kind of think about when we are using the 
community care.
    It is an option, and I do think that it should stay an 
option. But I do not think it should be our go-to option for 
our veterans.
    Senator Hassan. I appreciate that very much. And a quick 
personal aside, my son has a feeding tube, and it was a 
neurologist who treats a whole lot of children with feeding 
tubes who figured out how we could get capsulated medication 
into the feeding tube without clogging it. She also happened to 
be a mother, and I happened to think that that played something 
into it. But it really does make a huge difference.
    Mrs. Ward, in your written testimony you discussed the need 
to fully implement provisions of the Dole Act, which President 
Biden signed into law at the start of this year. And I share 
your concern about the delayed implementation of the bill.
    Senator Moran asked you about oversight, but as someone who 
has such personal knowledge about the challenges that veterans 
and caregivers face, can you please tell us a little more about 
how full implementation of the Dole Act would support 
caregivers and how its continued delay might affect you, your 
family, and our other veterans?
    Ms. Ward. Yes. Thank you for the question. I think that the 
full implementation of the Dole Act would eliminate the sense 
that all these beautiful programs that we have at the VA, they 
are so siloed----
    Senator Hassan. Right.
    Ms. Ward [continuing]. Is what it feels like. Like, how can 
I get home-based primary care, because I live in an area where 
I am too far from the main Durham VA. But why can't 
Fayetteville, which is where the Wilmington CBOC falls under, 
why can't they communicate well with Durham? Why can't I have 
that? Why is it so hard to get Veteran-Directed Care? I 
remember we did get it. We finally got it. But then we got 
skilled care, and we are not going to use services we do not 
actually need right now, just because we can get them. So 
nursing care really fits for our situation.
    But then what about palliative care? How do we get that? 
Does my PCAFC Coordinator know about how to get palliative 
care? What about hospice, and how can we set it up so that this 
man, that I love so much, can stay at home for the rest of his 
life? And it should not take so much work.
    And my sense of working with some of the people at the VA, 
they want to do the right thing. We have had pretty much a good 
experience with everybody that we have worked with the VA. But 
they do not know this program from that program. And my 
understanding of the Dole bill is that that is not there 
anymore. Those barriers are not there. There are so many 
barriers, that somebody like me, who is well educated and 
experienced with the VA, I sometimes cannot get access to these 
programs. And it is so tiring to fight them. I just want to go 
drink a Frappuccino somewhere.
    Senator Hassan. Yes, yes, yes. I hear you.
    Ms. Ward. I am not even asking for a lot. I am not asking 
to go to Hawaii or Italy or something. I just want to have a 
little bit of peace, and I want to be able to take care of him 
at home. And whether my veteran has ALS or another spinal cord 
injury or traumatic brain injury, it does not matter. We all 
should be able to access this care so that we can keep doing 
what we do. It should not be siloed like it feels like.
    Senator Hassan. I appreciate that. I appreciate your 
indulgence, Mr. Chair, with the time. Mr. Thomas, I will submit 
a question for the record for you. Again, I appreciate all of 
you very much being here. We really value your care, your 
service, and your expertise. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Senator King.

                    HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I ask my 
questions I have to acknowledge that in the last five years I 
have lost two of my best friends to ALS. One was one of my 
oldest friends from high school football, and one was one of my 
very best friends in Maine, George Smith, who battled this 
disease, this awful disease, with such courage. And I can't not 
acknowledge these two guys that played such an important role 
in my life.
    Ms. Bailey, you said something, you just touched on it 
briefly, that I find very potentially important, and that is 
that veterans seem to contract ALS at something like twice the 
level of the population at large. And I will ask this of our 
second panel. Are there any theories on that? Because I have 
always viewed ALS as almost like being struck by lightning. But 
that suggests that there may be environmental causes that 
contribute to the contraction of this disease. Are there 
theories on this?
    Ms. Bailey. There are theories, anything from traumatic 
head injury, environmental exposures when they are overseas. 
There are a lot of different theories, but there is nothing 
concrete, which is why we need to support research that is 
going to dig into this a little bit deeper. There have been 
even studies that show some specific occupations inside the 
military are up to 10 times as likely to be diagnosed, and that 
is terrifying.
    My husband served in the Army. My nephew just joined the 
Army. I want to make sure that, God forbid, if something 
happens to them that they are able to get the best care 
possible. And the research that can come from learning more 
about the veteran impact, it can go a long way in the civilian 
population, too.
    Senator King. I agree. Mr. Chairman, I think that is some 
research that we should really encourage. The VA is the likely 
place to conduct that research.
    Ms. Bailey. Absolutely.
    Senator King. Mr. Thomas, accessibility to long-term care. 
You touched on this in your testimony. My understanding is that 
this is one of the greatest problems facing our veteran 
community. Is that true?
    Mr. Thomas. Yes, it is.
    Senator King. And you mentioned a number. You said 
thousands. Do you have any idea how many SCI/D patients, 
veterans there are, in round numbers?
    Mr. Thomas. Well, Senator, I will have to get back to you 
with the exact number. But I would say it is more around 
60,000.
    Senator King. But it is safe to say that it grossly exceeds 
the availability of resources, particularly for long-term care. 
Is that correct?
    Mr. Thomas. Yes.
    Senator King. We have talked a bit about the Elizabeth Dole 
Act, and I think I will join my colleagues and ask for you to 
give us your thoughts, perhaps in writing after this hearing, 
on how it is being implemented and not being implemented, and 
where the gaps are. Because one of our roles here--often in our 
business we pass the law and it is sort of, okay, we have done 
our thing. But I do not believe that. I think part of our 
responsibility is to oversee the implementation and execution 
of these laws.
    So it would be very helpful to us to sort of survey your 
colleagues, your contacts, your circle of friends in the 
community to tell us how this law is working and how we can 
improve it, and what we must do to improve it.
    The other thing that bothers me, Mr. Thomas, you mentioned 
onboarding, and unfortunately at the VA now there is a hiring 
freeze. And there is hiring going on in certain areas, but the 
VA, as of the end of this month, I think, is going to be 30,000 
people less than it was at the beginning of this year.
    Do any of you see the staffing reductions as affecting the 
level of care and the responsiveness of the various VA 
facilities with which you engage? Mr. Thomas?
    Mr. Thomas. There has been a lot of lack of staffing on the 
SCI/D centers, you know, for a while, but we do see that the 
quality of care is still trying to be maintained. But we do 
need those nurses. We do need that team effect to make sure 
that our members get the quality care that they need.
    Senator King. And I think one of you mentioned burnout. I 
mean, we have got to maintain the good quality people that we 
have and not burn them out because of understaffing. Would you 
agree?
    Mr. Thomas. I would agree.
    Senator King. And finally, Dr. Hoover, I want to commend 
you for being here and providing your very compelling 
testimony. And we will look forward to your response to some of 
the questions after the hearing.
    Thank you all. This has been very powerful testimony. And 
again, we cannot fix problems we do not know about. So the 
invitation is for you to tell us what needs fixing, whether it 
is administrative or whether it is a matter of the law. Take 
advantage of the fact that you have a group of U.S. Senators 
here who are totally committed to this issue and its 
amelioration and mitigation.
    So thank you all for your testimony. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator King, thanks for that summary. And 
I recognize now Senator Duckworth.

                     HON. TAMMY DUCKWORTH,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS

    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
to all the witnesses who are here today. As you know, Mr. 
Chairman, this Committee has earned a longstanding reputation 
for prioritizing pragmatic bipartisanship. In my view, it is a 
commitment that all committees should strive to achieve.
    Preserving the bipartisan nature of our work is especially 
critical amid this Administration's attacks on America's 
cities, and while Immigration and Customs Enforcement is 
actively stealing U.S. Department of Defense and U.S. 
Department of Veterans Affairs resources away from their core 
mission to support its invasion of Chicago.
    Specifically, at Hines VA Hospital, my VA home where I get 
my care, it already suffers from limited parking that is 
inadequate for the level of patient demand. I think any veteran 
that goes to a VA hospital shares the frustration across the 
country of the inadequate parking.
    ICE has taken over 12 parking spots for operations at Hines 
VA, that have nothing to do with providing veterans with care, 
and this is causing anxiety and confusion among staff and 
patients. Diverting VA resources for ICE's reckless 
paramilitary immigration enforcement operations, not only does 
nothing to enhance veteran care, but it likely will harm care 
delivery.
    Veterans should be able to safely access their health care 
services without fear of intimidation, harassment, or even 
detainment, and it is absurd to believe that allowing ICE to 
operate in any capacity on any VA campus will not adversely 
impact delivery of care for their patients. This is especially 
true at Hines.
    The VA must establish a clear, strong policy against 
capitulation to ICE. Veterans and their family members that 
receive care at VA medical facilities across the country need 
to be protected. Otherwise, I am deeply concerned that patients 
will delay or cancel their appointments due to well-documented 
risks that they will be aggressively accosted by an out-of-
control, secretive paramilitary force, and whisked away in 
unmarked vans, solely because of the color of their skin, what 
they look like, race, or the language that they speak.
    If VA fails to stop ICE's theft of its resources, the 
Department will validate the veteran community's worst 
suspicions about the Trump administration, namely that 
President Trump is sabotaging VA's ability to carry out its 
mission and actively working to manufacture crisis that would 
justify privatization of the VA.
    Earlier this year, VA cut 80,000 jobs, including doctors 
and nurses. A recent ProPublica article reported on the 
consequences of this massive disruption, noting, and I quote, 
``the VA this year is down more than 600 doctors and about 
1,900 nurses. The number of doctors on staff has declined each 
month since President Donald Trump took office. The agency also 
lost twice as many nurses as it hired, between January and 
June.''
    The VA said it is working to address this, including by 
referring veterans to private providers and telehealth 
appointments. Meanwhile, waiting times for new patients seeking 
primary and specialized care are increasing, and I am gravely 
concerned that the Trump administration's dismantling of VA's 
capabilities and capacity is intended to create chaos that will 
achieve two of their main goals. First, they want to accelerate 
VA dependence on private sector providers, and second, they 
want to degrade VA's quality of care to justify privatizing our 
Nation's largest integrated health care system.
    Dating back to President Trump's first term, we know he is 
surrounded by wealthy donors who would love nothing more than 
to dismantle VA and force all veterans, particularly veterans 
who need specialized care, into the often more expensive, yet 
less effective private sector health care system. After all, VA 
providers are trained so they can address the unique needs of 
veterans, and this is just not true for most non-VA providers. 
A non-VA provider may look at a veteran and see that they have 
prostate cancer, but not check them for ischemic heart disease 
or Leukemia B, two other conditions that are tied to Agent 
Orange exposure, for example.
    Instead of siphoning resources away from the VA to a 
civilian health system that is already under duress, due to the 
Republicans' biggest Medicaid cut in history, we should be 
investing in VA civil servants while upgrading facilities and 
technologies to strengthen VA delivery of care.
    To all of the panelists, what specific steps should the VA 
take to ensure there are enough providers and accessible 
facilities for treating veterans with SCI/D in a timely manner 
and with the dignity and respect that they deserve? Would any 
of you like to answer that? Do you have any steps that you 
think the VA should be taking to support spinal cord injury 
patients, also through providing providers as well as access to 
facilities?
    Ms. Bailey. Shelly and I mentioned in our testimonies stop 
any hiring freezes or hiring caps, support and fund additional 
positions. Those, I think, are going to be the biggest steps 
you can make. It is hard to serve our veterans with their hands 
tied behind their backs right now, and it feels like that is 
what a lot of them are doing.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Duckworth, thank you. I do not 
anticipate having a second round, but having said that I would 
like to ask a couple of questions myself, unless there is 
concern about being left out, anybody else? I just want to 
capitalize on just a couple of things.
    First of all, community care. Is there ALS and these 
circumstances in which it makes sense, in your minds, to refer 
to a program, a hospital, a set of physicians that have 
expertise in this area, and it makes sense for the VA to allow 
for referral to that community care? Ms. Ward?
    Ms. Ward. Yes, I would like to speak to that. We have an 
excellent ALS Center at the Duke, the Duke Center for ALS Care 
Clinic, a clinic experience for somebody with ALS. They 
fortunately do have clinic rooms that are large enough to 
support not just somebody who is in a wheelchair but family 
members that come along with them. And they stay in that room 
for hours. Every specialty comes to see them--respiratory care, 
pulmonary, social workers come through, the ALS Association 
will come through, your neurologist comes through. It is an 
exhausting experience. It is a great experience, though, 
because you get soup to nuts there.
    But to try to get a community care referral, you have to 
get one for each specialty that is there, right. That is hard 
work, to get a community care specialty, for all to come 
together, so that you have a referral for every specialty care 
health care provider that comes to that room.
    For us personally, we use Medicare, because it is easier. I 
mean, you know, is it the right thing to do? Probably not. We 
probably really should go through the VA to make that happen. 
But it is hard to do, though, too. I mean, I personally do not 
want to go through all that.
    Chairman Moran. I appreciate knowing that, and it seems to 
me that that is not a damning thing about referral to community 
care. It is a damning thing about the way we refer it to 
community care.
    Ms. Ward. Yes.
    Chairman Moran. If we could get the referral fixed, that 
would be an improvement, and you would have, in this instance, 
the level of expertise, a combination of all the services in 
one location, that might make sense for a particular veteran or 
a veteran's family member. Because the standard in community 
care is what is in the best interest of the veteran, to be 
determined by the veteran and his or her provider. And in some 
instances there may be a program, as I say, a facility, a set 
of doctors, a continuum of care, that might make sense. And I 
want to make sure that is the case, in the best interest, that 
that is a possibility.
    Mr. Thomas, let me conclude my questions with just a 
follow-up to something that has been said in response to my 
colleagues' questions. The issue of the ACCESS Act, one of the 
things that occurred, and the PVA supports the ACCESS Act, but 
one of the reasons that is true is because we addressed the 
concerns regarding the VA's referrals to community providers 
who are ill-equipped. We heard testimony today about maybe--not 
maybe--we heard testimony about this being a new thing, to a 
neurologist not treating an ALS patient. And the PVA advocated 
for provisions in the ACCESS Act to address this issue of 
referral to people who are ill-equipped to handle a referral. 
Is that true, and do you have anything to say about that?
    Mr. Thomas. So I would say that is true. And, you know, it 
is hard, when you get a referral and brought there into the 
community, as was stated, that individuals need to be able to 
choose who they want to choose, and we understand that and we 
are on board and agree with that.
    But we need to be referred to doctors that truly understand 
the aspect of what SCI/D entails on the body. And a lot of 
times when we are referred out there to the community, they do 
not understand that. So that is why most of our members choose 
the VA.
    Chairman Moran. That makes sense to me, but I do want to 
highlight, at least it is my understanding the ACCESS Act 
includes language that veteran organizations, and I think 
including the PVA, encouraged be included in the ACCESS Act 
that deals with the concerns about referrals to someone who 
should not be referred to because it is a new experience for 
them, it is a new field for them--same field, I guess, a 
different kind of patient and a different kind of circumstance. 
And we want to make sure that the referral is actually to a 
provider that provides the expertise and experience that is 
actually helpful to the veteran. So we will continue to work on 
that, but I think that is part of our efforts in this ACCESS 
Act, to improve that circumstance.
    Thank you all very much. Senator King summed it up very 
well. Thank you for being such advocates. Thank you, I 
recognize that in instances here it is very difficult for you 
to be away, difficult to be here, and we are grateful that you 
take the time. It demonstrates that you care about your loved 
ones, you care about people you do not even know because you 
want the system to work, you want the VA to work, and the 
process to care for those who served our country, and we are 
all grateful for that, and I thank you for your presence.
    We are going to call up the second panel in just a moment. 
Thank you all for being here.

    [Recess.]

    Chairman Moran. Let me call to the table the second panel. 
Testifying today, this afternoon, and almost this evening, on 
the second panel is Dr. Erica Scavella, and she is the 
Assistant Under Secretary for Health for Clinical Services at 
the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. I am going to use my 
prerogative and ask you to introduce who you are accompanied 
by.
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you----
    Chairman Moran. ----If you would do that. Thank you, 
Doctor.
    Dr. Scavella. Yes, sir. Thank you so much.

                            PANEL II

                           ----------                              

 STATEMENT OF ERICA SCAVELLA, MD, FACP, FACHE, ASSISTANT UNDER 
 SECRETARY FOR HEALTH FOR CLINICAL SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 
  VETERANS AFFAIRS ACCOMPANIED BY MANOSHA WICKREMASINGHE, MD, 
  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, VA'S SPINAL CORD INJURIES AND DISORDERS 
                     (SCI/D) SYSTEM OF CARE

    Dr. Scavella. Good afternoon, Chairman Moran, Ranking 
Member Blumenthal, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today. Joining me today is Dr. 
Manosha Wickremasinghe. She is the Executive Director of VA's 
Spinal Cord Injuries and Disorders System of Care. Together, 
our mission is to address, not just the immediate needs, but 
also the long-term challenges and opportunities facing the 
veteran community affected by spinal cord injuries and 
disorders, also known as SCI/D.
    As we recognize the unique and evolving needs of veterans 
living with SCI/D, our response continues to center on 
specialized comprehensive care. These complex conditions 
require individualized approaches, and our commitment is to 
leverage the full depth of VA resources and compassionate 
expertise to optimize the quality of life for all veterans.
    VA's SCI/D System of Care is the Nation's largest, most 
comprehensive integrated health care system dedicated to 
treating individuals with spinal cord injuries and disorders. 
Our Hub and Spoke System enhances health, well-being, 
functionality, and quality of life for over 24,000 veterans.
    The veteran is central to all that we do and we strive to 
provide care that considers the whole person. We work as 
interdisciplinary teams to provide acute rehabilitation, 
specialized medical management, primary and preventive care, 
respite care, and long-term support. Annual comprehensive 
evaluations focus on health promotion, complication prevention, 
and early intervention, addressing the evolving needs related 
to SCI/D at any age.
    To support veterans in their communities, our SCI/D System 
of Care includes the SCI/D Home Care Program. Members of 
interdisciplinary teams are available to support the transition 
and health care needs of veterans with SCI/D in the home or 
community. In addition to the SCI/D Home Care Program, the VA 
SCI/D System of Care leverages home- and community-based 
services such as Skilled Home Health Care, Homemaker/Home 
Health Aide, and/or Veteran-Directed Care to ensure eligible 
veterans receive care comfortably within their home or the 
community.
    Recent legislative progress has enabled VA to expand 
support for veterans facing complex medical conditions. For 
example, Section 120 of the Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st Century 
Veterans Healthcare and Benefits Improvement Act, raises the 
maximum per-veteran expenditure cap for home- and community-
based services from 65 percent to 100 percent of Community 
Living Center costs, while allowing exception for diagnoses 
such as SCI/D. These changes directly translate into expanded 
options for home-based care and greater financial flexibility.
    As the Vietnam-era veteran cohort continues to age, the 
complexity of their needs increases. In response, VA is working 
to expand SCI/D long-term care capacity with two funded 
construction projects in North Texas, which is Dallas, and the 
VA San Diego Healthcare System. Both have had existing SCI/D 
acute and sustaining centers. Once completed, this will bring 
the total number of VA SCI/D long-term care centers to eight. 
Ensuring the availability of high-quality, long-term care for 
veterans with SCI/D is a prominent challenge and one that 
remains central to our resolution, our resource allocation, and 
planning.
    Removing barriers for veterans with SCI/D requires ongoing 
investments in adaptive equipment and technology. In fiscal 
year 2024, VA processed more than 5,000 claims for vehicle 
conversions, hand controls, and entry/exit ramps, empowering 
safe and independent mobility for eligible veterans with 
service-connected disabilities.
    Additionally, VA's SCI/D System of Care and Office of 
Advanced Manufacturing have partnered to ensure veterans have 
access to cutting-edge manufacturing technologies such as 3D 
printing, in health care. These technologies allow for the 
faster innovation and improved access to personalized health 
care solutions for veterans.
    VA's SCI/D System of Care maintains a strong tradition of 
continuous quality improvement and performance measurement. 
Recent initiatives have modernized outcome measurement and 
reporting. For example, VA has developed standardized 
documentation for the Functional Mobility Assessment. This 
measure allows VA to evaluate veteran satisfaction with wheeled 
mobility access.
    Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal, this concludes 
my testimony. VA's SCI/D System of Care is committed to 
delivering high-quality care, ensuring veterans receive the 
care and support they deserve. My colleague and I are prepared 
to answer your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Scavella appears on pages 
58-61 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Moran. Thank you very much. I am going to call on 
Senator King to begin the questioning.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 
courtesy. I want to thank both of you for being here. I hope 
you listened. There was a lot of praise for the VA in the last 
panel. There were some questions, but I think the consensus was 
that the veterans that have these SCI/D afflictions prefer the 
VA treatment system, and I hope you will take that back to your 
colleagues.
    I do want to follow up on the comment that Ms. Bailey made 
about ALS affecting veterans in a greater proportion than in 
the general population. I hope that is something that will 
provoke some serious research. It strikes me that could be a 
very promising area of research and also, if something is 
dangerous for our veterans, we should know it. Dr. Scavella, is 
that something you are planning to pursue?
    Dr. Scavella. Yes, thank you for that question. We are 
aware of the increased propensity of veterans to develop ALS, 
and that is included in our ongoing research, to determine both 
presumed and causative agents. We have some suspicions and some 
thoughts on that, and there is ongoing research into that. But 
we do know that there is a correlation between having served 
and developing ALS. That is something that is in the 
literature, something that our Office of Research and 
Development is looking at.
    Senator King. I hope that is pursued on an urgent basis. 
That could have enormous benefits. If we can nail down a 
possible cause, that would be a huge breakthrough for thousands 
and thousands of people.
    Second question, and I apologize having to leave. I have 
got an appointment in my office that has already been waiting 
for me. Last fall, the VA indicated an interest in fall 
prevention, which, of course, contributes to these kinds of 
spinal cords injuries as well as traumatic brain injuries. You 
were going to establish, I heard, a Fall Prevention Program. I 
have not heard much lately. Is that still in the works? I 
certainly hope it is.
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you for that question, Senator King. 
Fall Prevention, I have been a clinician with VA since 1999. 
Fall Prevention has been an ongoing effort. There may be some 
renewed attention to that. We want to make sure that veterans 
are not falling both in our facilities and in their homes, so 
that is something that is ongoing. I would be happy to take 
that back for the record to get you details on anything that is 
new.
    Senator King. I would appreciate that. One out of 4 people 
over 65 suffer a serious fall. It costs the economy $80 billion 
a year, two-thirds of which comes from Medicare. So this 
strikes me as low-hanging fruit in terms of health care costs, 
let alone the trauma to families and individuals that are 
afflicted by, as I say, traumatic brain injuries, spinal 
injuries, and others. So I hope you will take that back, and 
let's up the emphasis. Thank you.
    And Ms. Wickremasinghe--how did I do?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Very well.
    Senator King. Very well.
    Chairman Moran. You are more courageous than I was.
    Senator King. I noticed, Mr. Chairman. I did not want to 
call attention to that. But you heard the testimony, and please 
describe the strategy for dealing with these serious injuries, 
SCI/D afflictions.
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you for that question, Senator. 
As mentioned before, the VA SCI/D System of Care has 25 
dedicated SCI/D centers and over 120 spoke sites. These are 
located within facilities which do not have our SCI/D centers. 
These spoke sites provide local primary care and SCI/D informed 
care.
    Within our centers, we have large interdisciplinary teams 
that manage the complex care needs of our veterans, ranging 
from acute rehabilitation to ongoing care of secondary medical 
complications. We provide respite care. We have outpatient 
clinics. We have dedicated SCI/D home care programs, and we 
have dedicated SCI/D long-term care centers unique to VA.
    Senator King. Thank you very much. And I appreciate the 
outline and appreciate the work that you are doing, and I hope 
you were taking notes during the prior testimony. There are 
places where we can shore up the system.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the 
courtesy.
    Chairman Moran. You are welcome, Senator King. Dr. 
Scavella, you heard, to follow up on Senator King's closing 
comment, you heard the testimony that occurred just moments 
ago. What is your takeaway? We heard correctly that there is 
lots of praise and appreciation for the VA and its capabilities 
of dealing with veterans and their caregivers. But what did you 
learn that you and the VA should be doing differently or 
better, and was there something that you want to highlight for 
this Committee that we ought to be doing to help you accomplish 
that?
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you for that question, Chairman Moran. 
I will say that we are very proud that we are partnering with 
each of the folks on your first panel. We worked extensively 
with Dr. Hoover to improve the care that is being provided for 
patients with ALS, based upon her direct input. She, in her 
testimony, did name one of the two physicians that we were able 
to assign to assist with ensuring that her voice and other 
voices are known. Mrs. Ward, Ms. Bailey, and Mr. Thomas also 
talked about the extensive partnership that we have had.
    So I am very pleased to hear their testimony today, and we 
look forward to continuing to work with them to learn about 
what is not working, what we can improve upon, and anything new 
that comes up, as health care evolves and innovates and 
improves.
    Chairman Moran. Well, let me raise a couple of topics then. 
The Congress, Dr. Scavella, has allocated the full amount of 
funding that the VA has requested for medical services. Has 
there been any hindrance in making certain that SCI/D System of 
Care receives the necessary funding to provide the complex 
level care needed for these veterans? In other words, the VA 
asked Congress, in their budget, for this amount of money. We 
have appropriated this amount of money. The VA has that. Is it 
getting to the care and treatment programs, the care programs 
for these veterans that were described today?
    Dr. Scavella. Yes, thank you for that question. We are not 
aware of any challenges. I know that there was a focus in the 
previous panel about staffing. It has been made clear. We have 
communicated it that we have an exemption for the caregivers 
that are providing direct patient care in our system. That 
includes our clinicians, our nurses, our physicians. That 
includes our social workers, but it also includes those folks 
that make sure that the space is clean and safe for veterans to 
receive care. So in my understanding, we have adequate funding 
and are able to use those funds appropriately.
    When looking at our staffing from September 2025 and 
comparing it to a year ago, it appears as if we have the same 
exact number of staff assigned to spinal cord injuries and 
disorders. Where there may be some differences perhaps with the 
differences in the categories, and we would be happy to take 
that back to make sure that we are still meeting the intent.
    Chairman Moran. It has been brought to our attention that, 
at least in commentary, I would say, is the way that I would 
describe this, that the VA's Spinal Cord Injury and Disorder 
system is understaffed, and it is the challenge of hiring and 
retaining highly skilled providers, particularly in rural 
areas. I think you just testified that the same amount of staff 
in this arena within the VA, it is the same as it was a year 
ago. Are there different challenges depending upon where those 
programs are located or where the veteran resides and needs 
care?
    Dr. Scavella. Yes, so I will highlight that a bit. We know 
that there can be some challenges, but with health care in 
general, not just within VA, for both attracting, recruiting, 
and retaining the talent that we need to provide this skilled 
care. We do have a number of modalities, I will let Dr. 
Wickremasinghe outline, related to how we can address those 
care needs in a rural setting.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you very much. Doctor?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you very much for the question, 
Mr. Chairman. You know, we recognize that providing care to our 
veterans located in rural areas is critical. We rely on 
transportation and telehealth, in addition to our spoke 
clinics, which really enhance our outreach. Our spoke clinics 
are located in areas closest to where our veterans live, many 
times, and that, in combination with telehealth and 
transportation, really, you know, are where, for us, the money 
is, you know, when trying to reach our rural veterans.
    So for example, with telehealth, we have the VA Eastern 
Colorado Health Care System. That has expanded rural health 
care to VA Black Hills Health Care System. So we have SCI/D 
specialists who can participate in appointments with veterans 
who are served at Fort Meade in South Dakota. So this is 
occurring in many VAs.
    In addition, we have telemental health. We have dedicated 
mental health providers within our interdisciplinary teams 
within our centers. So we have psychologists specialized in the 
care of veterans with SCI/D participating through telemental 
health, to reach our veterans.
    A third example would be our tele-wound programs. Our 
veterans with spinal cord injuries many times have skin 
conditions resulting in pressure injuries. And instead of 
having our veterans drive in for follow-up appointments, we are 
able to use 3D imaging and cameras to see the wounds in real 
time and have our clinicians monitor progress. Sometimes, it 
also allows us to bring our veterans into our centers, sooner 
than later, when we see any changes in wounds.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. I am going to ask another 
question and then turn to Senator Blumenthal, and I will 
continue with you, Doctor. We heard the circumstance described 
by our first panel about lack of knowledge of programs, where 
to go, and then the silos within the VA that make continuum of 
care a challenge, or the length for the necessary components of 
care to be coordinated. What would you tell me about that, 
whether it is a problem, a challenge? How is it being 
addressed? What would you tell the first panel about that 
circumstance?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you for that question. I am not 
able to speak for the ALS System of Care. Within the SCI/D 
System of Care, however, we provide an interdisciplinary, 
comprehensive, lifelong continuum, that I mentioned earlier, 
with our Senator. And I can take that back for the record and 
get that information to you, through the subject matter 
experts.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. What does the VA do to educate 
and help connect veterans with opportunities to participate in 
clinical research trials?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. VA is a nation's leader in health care 
research, Senator, and we currently have about 27 VA-funded 
trials and projects focused on veterans with spinal cord 
injuries and disorders. We have, for example, the 
Rehabilitation Research and Development Gordon Mansfield Spinal 
Cord Consortium, located in California, works with many VAs in 
the UCLA branches to focus on stem cell research.
    We also, for example, in West Haven, Connecticut, we have a 
Rehabilitation Research and Development Center focused on 
addressing neuropathic or nerve pain, the chronic pain that 
affects many veterans with SCI/D, and so on and so forth. I 
could provide you much more detailed information for the 
record, as well.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. Let me turn to Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you both for your 
service. Let me ask you, how have the cuts in numbers of 
workforce affected the work that you do? What number have you 
lost?
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member 
Blumenthal. I do not actually have the current data on our 
attrition rates. I can tell you and reassure you that within 
our direct patient care that there are exemptions in place to 
make sure that we are not affecting the ability to provide care 
in our facilities.
    Senator Blumenthal. So you have been affected, or not? I am 
not sure I understand your answer.
    Dr. Scavella. I am not aware of any effects related to 
staffing and the----
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, have you lost staff?
    Dr. Scavella. I am sure that we have lost staff and gained 
staff.
    Senator Blumenthal. You have lost staff, but you do not 
know how many?
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have that data in front of me to 
provide you with an accurate number, but we would be happy to 
take it back for the record.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, do you have an estimate?
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have an estimate, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. You have no idea.
    Dr. Scavella. I have heard numbers bandied about, but I 
would rather not give a number that is inaccurate in front of 
this Committee.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, I have to say, you know, I am 
disappointed that you do not have at least an estimate, given 
that you are responsible for this whole department. Do you have 
an estimate, Dr. Wickremasinghe?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you for the question. I would 
have to take that back for the record. I do not have the data 
on hand.
    Senator Blumenthal. How many nurse vacancies in SCI/D are 
there right now? How many nurse vacancies?
    Dr. Scavella. We do not have that data, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. I am stunned. You do not have an 
answer, how many vacancies there are?
    Dr. Scavella. We would be happy to take that back for the 
record. I do not have that data in front of me. I do not want 
to give you an inaccurate number.
    Senator Blumenthal. How many recreational therapist 
vacancies are there?
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have that data in front of me, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. How many doctor vacancies?
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have any data related to whether we 
are actually above or below the recommended staffing for any of 
the specialties.
    Senator Blumenthal. Are there more vacancies now for 
nurses----
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have----
    Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. Than there were in January 
of this year?
    Dr. Scavella. I do not have that data in front of me, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Let me posit, let me assume that staff 
are necessary to deliver services. Correct?
    Dr. Scavella. Correct.
    Senator Blumenthal. So the number of staff would seem to be 
related to the quality of your service. Correct?
    Dr. Scavella. So perhaps I can explain a bit. We have over 
400,000 employees in Veterans Administration, the Department of 
Veterans Affairs. I do not have data on those fluctuations----
    Senator Blumenthal. I am talking about dealing with SCI/D. 
I am not talking about the whole Veterans Administration.
    Dr. Scavella. Okay.
    Senator Blumenthal. I am talking about dealing with those 
issues.
    Dr. Scavella. So as I testified a few minutes ago, it 
appears as if our staffing within SCI/D remains flat compared 
between September 2025 and September 2024. I do not have 
information about potential fluctuations in the types of staff 
that may have composed that number.
    Senator Blumenthal. You do not kind of monthly or quarterly 
assessment of what the recommended numbers are and how close 
you are to those numbers? You do not do a monthly report or any 
regular reporting?
    Dr. Scavella. We do monitor our staffing. I do not have 
that data in front of me today. I just had the flat number in 
that SCI/D----
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, what I am going to ask you to do 
is to provide me those numbers, vacancies for SCI/D nurses, 
recreational therapists, doctors, and other staff, month by 
month, to the present, over the past year.
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you for that. We will do that, sir. 
Thank you.
    Senator Blumenthal. When do you think you can have it?
    Dr. Scavella. I think we need to confer to make sure we 
have got the data available and how soon that will be. I am not 
sure what the normal turnaround will be, but we will commit to 
getting that information back to you.
    Senator Blumenthal. Did you discuss with anyone at the VA 
the possibility that you would be asked about these numbers?
    Dr. Scavella. Again, I had focused on the total numbers 
within the system. I did not focus on the breakdown.
    Senator Blumenthal. But did you talk to anybody at the VA 
in preparing to come here today about questions relating to 
staffing?
    Dr. Scavella. Correct, and that is why I had that number of 
being the same as September 2024 and September 2025.
    Senator Blumenthal. So you did talk to people. Did anyone 
say that you should not have the most current numbers on 
vacancies?
    Dr. Scavella. Nobody gave me that instruction, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Are people still leaving the VA, in 
your department?
    Dr. Scavella. So again, I speak for thousands of employees 
that do not just include SCI/D, so there is attrition and there 
is recruitment. So there is fluctuation every day in our 
staffing.
    Senator Blumenthal. Are you hiring?
    Dr. Scavella. We are hiring.
    Senator Blumenthal. Are you hiring more than you are 
losing?
    Dr. Scavella. Again, I do not have those gains and losses 
data in front of me, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. Okay. How about cancellation of 
contracts? Do you have contracts with companies outside the VA?
    Dr. Scavella. I am going to defer to Dr. Wickremasinghe 
about any contracts related to SCI/D.
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you for the question. At the 
national level we do not have contracts affecting our SCI/D 
System of Care, but I cannot speak for each of our facilities, 
so I would need to take that back for the record, please.
    Senator Blumenthal. How about the Hubs and Centers? They 
have contracts, right?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. I do not want to misspeak, so I would 
need to take that back for the record to find out more.
    Senator Blumenthal. You do not know whether the Hubs--do 
the Hubs and Centers report to you?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. At the national level I oversee policy, 
and the more detailed operational involvement, including 
contracts, many times is at the local level, at the facility 
level. And some of those contracts are national contracts, as 
well, but I do not have that information. I would need to take 
that back for the record, to make sure that we are providing 
the most accurate information.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, my understanding is that you 
provide services through Hubs around the country. Correct? 
There are about 25 of them, or centers around the country, Hubs 
and Spokes?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Yes. That is correct. We have 25 
dedicated SCI/D centers, which are in our VA medical centers.
    Senator Blumenthal. And did they have contracts with 
private entities?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. I am not able to answer that question 
because that is not something that I am directly tracking or 
involved with. So I would need to take that back for the 
record.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, I am perplexed. You are in charge 
of policy, which means meeting basic needs of individuals 
served by those 25 SCI/D centers, and you are saying you do not 
know whether they have contracts with service providers outside 
of their entities, and you do not know whether at the national 
level there are contracts?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. That is correct. Senator, because 
contracts do not fall directly under my office, we have----
    Senator Blumenthal. But you would know--you got a center. 
What is the nearest one to Connecticut? Boston?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Yes.
    Senator Blumenthal. Okay. So you would know, in Boston, we 
have a certain kind of rehabilitation service that is provided 
by a contractor.
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. For example, in Boston we have an SCI/D 
center, and that center operates under the national guidelines 
and standards set forward by VA. We have Directive 1176(2), 
which provides the standards for care of veterans with spinal 
cord injuries and disorders.
    Senator Blumenthal. Alright. Well, I hope maybe you can 
provide some more information.
    I have been unhappy with the delays in implementing the 
Dole Act, as I expressed. Earlier, I have repeated those 
concerns. The VA touts its implementation of the Dole Act as a 
success. Do you regard it as a success?
    Dr. Scavella. Thank you for that question. We are happy to 
have the provisions set forth in the Dole Act, which will 
address several concerns that were raised here during this 
particular hearing. We are grateful for Section 120, which will 
help us with some very challenging situations that our patients 
have been facing. So we are happy for the provision.
    Senator Blumenthal. Don't you need more people to implement 
it properly and successfully, more staff?
    Dr. Scavella. I cannot comment on needing more staff if I 
do not know what the current staffing is capable of providing. 
So again, I would like to get back to you with accuracy of what 
has been implemented, how it has been implemented, as well as 
whether or not we do have any staffing challenges within the 
fact that we appear to have a flat staffing.
    Senator Blumenthal. Forgive me, but what I am hearing you 
say to me is you do not know whether you have enough staff to 
implement it successfully.
    Dr. Scavella. That is not what I meant to say, sir. What I 
am saying is----
    Senator Blumenthal. I am sorry. I apologize.
    Dr. Scavella [continuing]. I would like to make sure that 
as I am answering a question about a new provision and 
legislation that we are currently implementing----
    Senator Blumenthal. So you are not prepared to answer.
    Dr. Scavella. Correct. I want to make sure that I am 
providing accurate information pertaining to the new 
legislation.
    Senator Blumenthal. What is your opinion, Doctor?
    Dr. Wickremasinghe. Thank you for the question, Senator. 
What I know is that VA is pursuing value-based care to address 
the Elizabeth Dole Act.
    Senator Blumenthal. I am going to finish my questions at 
this point. You know, it is not a failing to say, ``We would 
like to have more staff.'' The reason I am asking these 
questions is, the VA has lost thousands of dedicated, 
hardworking members of its workforce. And my educated guess is 
that that has happened in your departments, and that it has 
affected performance. And it is not your fault. It is not your 
fault. It is the result of decisions made by Elon Musk, DOGE, 
tech bros, Secretary Collins, and the Trump administration, 
that has taken a chainsaw. It is the chainsaw that Elon Musk 
touted as he paraded on that stage, and it has affected your 
workers, but even more so, the brave veterans who are 
struggling with ALS and other spinal cord injuries. And that is 
a tragedy for our country.
    So I hope maybe you can provide more information to me, 
because it will enable us to do better oversight. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. There are no 
other questions, and therefore I want to again thank our 
witnesses, from the first panel and now from the second, for 
their testimony, and our Committee members and the audience for 
being here this afternoon.
    The hearing record will remain open for five legislative 
days, should any Committee members want to submit additional 
statements for the record. And I ask our witnesses to respond 
to any questions that are provided for the record, once they 
are received that they are answered in a timely manner. I think 
we are done. We will adjourn the meeting, and thank you very 
much.
    [Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]


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