[Senate Hearing 119-135]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-135
THE POISONING OF AMERICA: FENTANYL,
ITS ANALOGUES, AND THE NEED
FOR PERMANENT CLASS SCHEDULING
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 4, 2025
__________
Serial No. J-119-3
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.judiciary.senate.gov
www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
61-321 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois,
JOHN CORNYN, Texas Ranking Member
MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
TED CRUZ, Texas AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri ALEX PADILLA, California
KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama PETER WELCH, Vermont
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida ADAM B. SCHIFF, California
Kolan Davis, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Joe Zogby, Democratic Chief Counsel and Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Grassley, Hon. Charles E......................................... 1
Durbin, Hon. Richard J........................................... 2
Booker, Hon. Cory A.
Prepared statement........................................... 51
WITNESSES
Barnes, Donald................................................... 11
Prepared statement........................................... 53
Farfan-Mendez, Cecilia........................................... 10
Prepared statement........................................... 58
Norring, Bridgette............................................... 6
Prepared statement........................................... 63
Responses to written questions............................... 71
Puerta, Jaime.................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 74
Responses to written questions............................... 79
Westlake, Timothy W.............................................. 8
Prepared statement........................................... 82
APPENDIX
Items submitted for the record................................... 95
THE POISONING OF AMERICA: FENTANYL,
ITS ANALOGUES, AND THE NEED
FOR PERMANENT CLASS SCHEDULING
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TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2025
United States Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., in
Room 226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Charles E.
Grassley, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Grassley [presiding], Graham, Cornyn,
Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Tillis, Kennedy, Blackburn, Schmitt, Britt,
Moody, Durbin, Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Blumenthal, Hirono,
Booker, Padilla, Welch, and Schiff.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA
Chairman Grassley. Well, we welcome everybody for this very
important hearing. Obviously, you know it's on fentanyl and
fentanyl-related substances. Before I begin, I want to take a
moment to welcome members in the audience. We have about 30
guests, including parents of kids who have tragically died from
fentanyl poisoning, as well as law enforcement officers who
have a strong interest in this issue. We thank you all very
much for your support of this hearing by being here.
Fentanyl accounts for a vast majority of drug overdose
deaths in the United States every year. In the last full year
for which we have data--that'd be 2 years ago--around 75,000
lives were lost to fentanyl alone, and that happens to work out
to be about 200 people dying every day. We titled this hearing,
quote, ``The Poisoning of America,'' end of quote, because most
Americans don't know that they're taking fentanyl. Many are
children who think they're taking something else that turns out
to be laced with fentanyl. There are countless families with
tragic stories.
One family in Iowa, the Arwine family--Lisbon, Iowa--is one
of them. Laurie Arwine sent us a letter that I'd like to
introduce into the record, and I'll do that without objection.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Chairman Grassley. Laurie's youngest son, Bailey, was taken
on April the 5th, 2022. Twenty-two years old. He was not a drug
addict. He did not think he was taking fentanyl, but the pill
he took was laced with it.
Laurie wrote, quote, ``Fentanyl stole our son's future and
the joy of watching Bailey marry the love of his life, having a
mother-son dance, watching him buy his first home, watching him
become a loving father, and our joy of having more
grandchildren. We will never know if any of his children, our
grandchildren, would have Bailey's curly hair, his cute,
smirking smile, or his twinkling blue eyes. There will always
be an empty chair at our family gatherings, whether it's
Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, birthdays, dinner parties. His
voice and laughter will forever be silenced,'' end of quote.
Maybe the saddest part of the fentanyl crisis is that so
many parents can tell a similar story of loss. In fact, we have
many of them with us here today, including two of our
witnesses. I want to tell parents in the audience today, thank
you for being here. Thank you for making your voices heard.
Thank you for doing what you can do to keep other parents from
going through what you've gone through.
How long do we have to keep suffering through this attack
on our children? This is not an easy problem to solve, but
there are certain parts of the problem that are simple to
address. For one thing, commonsense border control will help
stem the flow of fentanyl. We have no idea how many pounds of
fentanyl were carried in the got-aways that will never show up
in any statistics. We also have no idea how many surges of
illegal immigrants have been used by the cartels as
distractions to push drugs through our understaffed ports of
entry. Thankfully, the Trump administration is taking this
threat seriously.
Another simple thing to address is fentanyl knockoffs.
Fentanyl is a substance easily changed by drug cartels to
bypass the legal scheduling while becoming even more deadly.
That's why, in 2018, the Drug Enforcement Administration
scheduled fentanyl knockoffs as a class, using a formula
created by an emergency room doctor. He's here today, and I
thank you for coming. And he'll tell us more about that
problem.
Congress temporarily extended the scheduling, over and
over. We've played this game for too long. It's time to make
this temporary scheduling permanent, so that the drug cartels
do not have the opportunity to flood our country with even
deadlier versions of fentanyl. Last week, Senator Cassidy and I
introduced a bipartisan bill to do just that. Seven Democratic
Senators co-sponsored it. We should pass that bill quickly
because of the temporary scheduling that we last passed expires
again on March 31.
We must get this done. We must also support President
Trump's attempt to secure the Border and deal with the Mexican
drug cartels. America's children need us to act. And I'm glad
to have Senator Durbin speak now, but I'm also glad that he's
sympathetic to what we're trying to do, because I know you know
it's a problem.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
Senator Durbin. I certainly do, Chairman Grassley, and I'm
glad you've held this hearing. This is a bipartisan issue, as
it should be, to discuss fentanyl and the devastating impact
that opioid addiction has on America. In just a decade, this
synthetic opioid has emerged as the deadliest drug in American
history. All it takes is 2 milligrams--that's a fraction of the
size of a penny--to cause an overdose. It is so cheap that
dealers are lacing lethal amounts into street drugs like
cocaine and heroin, and their buyers are none the wiser.
There's an overdose crisis in America, but we've learned
that evidence-based solutions reduce death. In fact, in 2023,
overdose deaths actually decreased for the first time since
2018, going down by more than 10 percent. We need to look at
every factor that contributes to this reduction. Counseling and
treatment, training for first responders, and naloxone to our
hardest hit communities all make a difference.
We must also address how this poison gets in the hands of
the most vulnerable people in America, our kids. Too often,
fentanyl is peddled in the open on some of the world's largest
social media platforms. Last Congress, the Judiciary Committee
advanced several bipartisan bills that would finally hold these
companies accountable and demand safeguards be put in place to
protect our children. One of the bills is the Cooper Davis Act.
Cooper is a 16-year-old Kansas teen who tragically lost his
life to a fentanyl-laced pill he bought through Snapchat. This
bill would require Big Tech companies to take a more proactive
role in stopping drug dealers from using their platforms.
Sadly, Cooper is not the only teen who has lost his life to
drugs peddled on social media. Bridgette Norring is here to
testify today. Her son Devin tragically died after taking a
fentanyl-laced pill he thought was Percocet that he purchased
over Snapchat. There's a lawsuit that she'll tell us about,
from the parents of those victims through Snapchat.
In the coming days, I'll join Senators Marshall, Shaheen,
and others to reintroduce what we call Cooper Davis and Devin
Norring Act. I hope the Committee will again advance this
critical legislation on a bipartisan basis, and I hope that
Congress will finally, finally allow these companies to be sued
by their victims' families so they can be held accountable in a
court of law. Enough teens have died due to Big Tech's
deliberate indifference.
We must also acknowledge the role the U.S. has played in
arming cartels to the teeth. We send hundreds of thousands of
firearms south of our Border in an iron river, and the cartels
cash them in. They facilitate the use of violence to traffic
fentanyl into the United States.
Both State and Federal law enforcement agencies are in the
front lines of protecting our communities from fentanyl and
other opioids, but detection is getting more difficult.
Fentanyl is so potent and moved in quantities so small that
high-value shipments can easily be hidden. As a result, law
enforcement need access to technology and resources to quickly
and efficiently detect these drugs. This includes expanding
nonintrusive inspection capability, making lifesaving naloxone
widely available, and adequately funding State and local law
enforcement.
The funding freeze which we're talking about--if it's going
to stop the efforts of law enforcement to combat fentanyl--is a
bad idea. The same is true of the recent order diverting
Federal law enforcement agents, including from the DEA and ATF,
away from combating fentanyl and firearms traffic by cartels
and working instead on a mass deportation effort. As a
reminder, the vast majority of fentanyl and other illegal drugs
enter the U.S. and are smuggled by American citizens through
legal ports of entry.
I'm also gravely concerned about the negative impact of
mass removals of senior career law enforcement at Department of
Justice and FBI on our ability to hold traffickers accountable,
to cut off the supply of fentanyl. The recent actions we've
seen distract us from the need to take a comprehensive,
bipartisan approach to tackling this crisis, including
investing in addiction prevention and treatment; enforcing and
strengthening our gun laws; giving Federal, State, and local
law enforcement the resources they need to do their jobs
effectively. Getting fentanyl off the streets is a herculean
task that will require all of us to come together and work
across the aisle to make this country healthier and safer.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Grassley. Thank you. I'm going to introduce the
Majority witnesses, and Senator Durbin's going to introduce his
witnesses. And then I wanted to announce that, at approximately
7 or 8 minutes to 11, I'm going to leave the Committee meeting
to open the Senate, and Senator Cornyn will act as Chairman
while I'm gone.
Our first witness, Jaime Puerta, is a U.S. Marine Corps
veteran; president of an organization, Victims of Illicit
Drugs--and that goes by the acronym VOID, for short--which is
an organization he founded after he lost his 16-year-old son
Daniel to fentanyl. VOID is a nonprofit dedicated to educating
parents and children about the dangers of drug use and social
media platforms. Mr. Puerta, I think I speak for everyone on
this Committee when I say that we're deeply sorry for the loss
of your son.
Next, Mr. Tim Westlake is a driving force behind today's
class scheduling policy and has fought against the drug
epidemic for over 30 years. He's a full-time emergency room
physician and a part-time medical regulator in Wisconsin. He
also provides medical direction for a statewide peer-to-peer
drug recovery program. In the past, Dr. Westlake has served as
chairman of the Wisconsin Medical Examining Board and was
formerly a member of Wisconsin's Controlled Substances Board.
Finally, Sheriff Don Barnes--thank you, Sheriff--is
sheriff-coroner of Orange County, California. He leads around
4,000 employees, operates one of the Nation's largest county
jail systems, and manages the Orange County Crime Lab. Sheriff
Barnes also serves as the Major County Sheriffs of America's
vice president for homeland security and as their chairman of
the intelligence commander group. Thank you, all, for once
again being here today. I'll turn it over to Ranking Member
Durbin now to introduce.
Senator Durbin. Thank you, Chairman Grassley. I want to
welcome Dr. Cecilia Farfan-Mendez, an affiliated researcher
with the Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation at UC-San
Diego, an expert on organized crime and U.S.-Mexico security.
She co-founded the Mexico Violence Research Project, which
provides information, analysis, research, and resources for
understanding violence and organized crime in Mexico.
I also welcome Bridgette Norring, who is a survivor parent
to her son, Devin, and a social media reform advocate. Ms.
Norring founded the Devin Norring Foundation to raise awareness
and educate children, parents, caregivers, and communities
about the dangers of illicit drugs. She's a member of Parents
for Safe Online Spaces, which advocates for online safety for
kids. Mrs. Norring, I read your testimony, and the loss of your
son was so graphic and so touching. Thank you for sharing.
Mr. Puerta, I read yours, as well. It's just heartbreaking,
as you describe those five--or those six days in the hospital
before you lost your son. Any of us who've lost a child know
exactly what you went through. I'll never forget it. Thank you
both for being--thank all the witnesses for being with us
today.
Senator Cornyn [presiding]. Mr.--Ranking Member Durbin, I
believe you're up first. Well, let's go ahead and hear from the
witnesses. Mr. Puerta, would you have an opening statement for
the Committee, please?
STATEMENT OF JAIME PUERTA, PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF VICTIMS
OF ILLICIT DRUGS, AND CO-CHAIR OF PROJECT FACING FENTANYL,
SANTA CLARITA, CALIFORNIA
Mr. Puerta. Good morning, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member
Durbin, and esteemed Members of this Committee. My name is
Jaime Puerta, and I am the president and co-founder of Victims
of Illicit Drugs, VOID, and co-chair of Project Facing Fentanyl
Now. Joining me today are Mr. Steve Filson, a retired police
officer and secretary-treasurer of VOID, as well as Ms. Andrea
Thomas, chair of Project Facing Fentanyl, and Ms. Gretchen
Peters, CEO of Alliance to Counter Crimes Online, and other
family members who have endured the profound loss of a loved
one due to illicit fentanyl. VOID, a California-based nonprofit
organization, was established to educate, advocate, and raise
public awareness about the devastating dangers of illicit
fentanyl and other synthetic analogues.
Today, I stand before you to give voice to the countless
lives lost, including my own son, Daniel Puerta-Johnson. My son
was not a habitual drug user by any sense of the word, nor had
he been diagnosed with substance use disorder, but he was
diagnosed with ADHD and depression. On April 1, 2020, at the
very beginning of the pandemic, I walked into my son's room and
found him practically lifeless in his bed. In a state of shock
and panic, I called 911 first, then his mother. Emergency
services arrived at our home and immediately began CPR, and
naloxone was administered.
He was then transported to Los Angeles Children's Hospital,
where a team of specialty doctors did everything they could to
bring our son back but unfortunately were unsuccessful in
bringing him out of his catatonic state. His health had become
much worse from the day that he had been admitted, and all they
could do was to keep him comfortable until his mother, Denise,
and I made the agonizing decision to discontinue all life
support--all life support efforts. On April 6, 2020, at 3:45
p.m., all life support was discontinued.
His mother, Denise, got into his hospital bed and lay next
to him, gently stroking his beautiful head of dark brown hair,
and I was holding his right hand when he drew his last breath
at exactly 5:08 p.m. of that April 6 when he quietly passed
away. I kissed the bridge of his nose, like I did on most
nights when saying goodnight, and left the hospital to go home
without my son, utterly broken, devastated, angry, and
confused.
After my son's passing, I was contacted by the Los Angeles
County Sheriff's Office, and I was told that my son had died
due to an overdose. Half a blue pill, which I later came to
find out looked exactly like a pharmaceutical-grade blue M30
oxycodone pill, had been found on his dresser. It was sent to
the laboratory for analysis and found that the pill, which had
taken my son's life, was illicit fentanyl. My son had consumed
what he thought was a blue M30 oxycodone pill, but in fact had
unknowingly--I repeat, unknowingly--ingested an illicitly
manufactured counterfeit opioid made of nothing more than
filler, a binding agent, and illicit fentanyl. This was
deceptively made to look exactly like a pharmaceutical grade
oxycodone pill, and it killed him.
I have shared Daniel's story countless times, yet the
problem worsens. Illicit fentanyl remains an insidious threat.
So, what can we do? Our organization believes that knowledge
saves lives, but we also need legislative action. The HALT
Fentanyl Act currently under consideration is a vital tool in
this fight. Illicit fentanyl has no medical use and is highly
addictive, warranting its classification as a Schedule I
substance under the Controlled Substances Act.
For too long, this legislation has stalled, despite clear
evidence of its necessity. My son Daniel's death is just one of
countless tragedies caused by this epidemic. His story is one
of hope extinguished, of a family left broken, but it is also a
call to action. No family--no family should have to endure the
pain that we have suffered. We have the tools to address this
crisis. What we need now is the will to act. I urge you, I beg
you, to act decisively and combat this crisis. Thank you for
inviting me and my fellow bereaved parents to this esteemed
Committee. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Puerta appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Puerta. Ms. Norring?
STATEMENT OF BRIDGETTE NORRING, SURVIVOR PARENT, AND FOUNDER,
DEVIN J. NORRING FOUNDATION, HASTINGS, MINNESOTA
Ms. Norring. Thank you, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member
Durbin, and Members of the Committee. My name is Bridgette
Norring. I am a wife, mother, grandmother, advocate, and
founder of the Devin J. Norring Foundation, a foundation I wish
didn't even have to be in existence. Today marks another month
that my son, Devin Joseph Norring, was taken from my family at
the age of 19, well before he ever got the chance to really
begin life. You see, Senators, that is how parents like myself
now measure time. It goes by the weeks, months, or years it has
been since our children lost their lives.
Devin was your average teenager. He had a passion for
football, skateboarding, BMXing, and music. He was smart as a
whip when it came to anything mathematical. He was his
siblings', Hayley and Caden's, biggest protector. He had plans
to go to California the summer of 2022 to look into schools to
continue his music education and become the musician he wanted
to be. Unfortunately, he never made it.
He had been suffering from blackout migraines and dental
pain that he'd been under doctors' care for, and at the height
of the pandemic, those appointments were canceled. And we
believe Devin was desperate by any means necessary to treat the
pain. The morning after Devin and an acquaintance went onto
Snapchat and connected with a drug dealer, he was found
unresponsive in his bedroom by his then-14-year-old brother,
Caden. His bedroom should've been the safest place in the
world. And as I held him one last time, I promised my son I
would do something.
We later learned that Devin was poisoned by fentanyl: a
single pill with enough fentanyl to kill multiple people. I now
also know that social media platforms are one of the primary
sources which unsuspecting teens buy all types of drugs, with
the majority of them containing fentanyl. Senators, this crisis
has many facets, and each should be addressed with care,
empathy, and courage: education; supply and-demand issues; a
lack of accessible, affordable mental health and recovery
programs; and holding drug dealers and traffickers accountable
for the devastating loss of life are all important issues to
address. But we must do more. It is critical that we address
social media platforms that facilitate drug peddling to
children--platforms which make these connections as a matter of
design and then profit from them. We cannot say we are
protecting our children until we face this fact and pass
legislation to stop it.
In the spring of 2021, myself and several families were
invited to meet with executives from Snapchat. Today, that
meeting is what drives my fuel for social media reform.
Snapchat's executives claim that they had no idea this was
happening, even though Snapchat and other platforms have been
used for drug sales for years and this has been widely reported
by the media. They blamed us, as parents, and told us that, due
to Section 230, we had no power to hold them accountable in
court. Senators, if someone opened a brick-and-mortar store and
sold these drugs to our children out of that store, we would be
held accountable. We would be shut down so fast. So I ask, why
do the same rules not apply to social media?
Since losing Devin, my family has watched drug dealers
continue operating on Snapchat, Instagram, Telegram. And while
we got zero justice for Devin's death, I'm proud to say we
aided in the indictments of individuals with ties to the
Sinaloa Cartel in Minneapolis. I believe there were 19 members
of that indictment. I'm grateful to the Hastings Police
Department, Dakota County Drug Task Force, and U.S. Attorney
Andrew Luger's work on this case.
In speaking about Devin's story with middle and high school
students, kids have shared the toll Snapchat takes on their
mental health and how, on average, they are spending 26-plus
hours a week on these platforms. That's why my family and so
many others fight hard to support the Kids Online Safety Act. I
thank Senators Blumenthal and Blackburn for spearheading this
vital legislation on behalf of our children, because KOSA is
the crucial foundation for social media reform.
I am blessed to work with my congressional representative,
Senator Amy Klobuchar, and Representative Angie Craig. I want
to thank Congresswoman Craig for introducing the Cooper Davis
and Devin Norring Act and Senator Klobuchar for acting on her
commitment and promise to help parents achieve accountability
for Big Tech. Parents like me, Mr. Puerta, Amy Neville, Andrew
Thomas, Steve Filson, and thousands of others cannot do this
alone. We look to you to pass KOSA and the Cooper Davis and
Devin Norring Act. We need you to stand with us and enact these
pieces of legislation so that our country's kids have a
fighting chance and stop losing their lives. I thank you. I am
honored to be here and look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Norring appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Ms. Norring. Dr. Westlake?
STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY W. WESTLAKE, M.D., FFSMB, FACEP, EMERGENCY
PHYSICIAN, PROHEALTH OCONOMOWOC MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, OCONOMOWOC,
WISCONSIN
Mr. Westlake. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin,
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting
me to testify and for your leadership. Before I talk science, I
wanted to tell you the last time I used Narcan. It was just
days ago. It was a quiet night shift in the emergency
department, and I was mulling over my testimony for this very
hearing when I had to rush out to a car that screeched into the
ambulance bay.
It was driven by the girlfriend of a patient who took what
he thought was a Percocet. It was actually a lethal dose of
fentanyl. He wasn't breathing and was about to go into cardiac
arrest. We pulled him out and quickly resuscitated him with
Narcan. Within a minute, he went from being blue and pulseless
to being wide awake. He went home with his family that night.
He was lucky this time.
This is my reality and that of so many emergency physicians
across America. We have a problem in this country, and it
requires all of us to work together to solve it. First, I'd
like to clarify what fentanyl-related substances, or FRSs, are
and why permanently scheduling them as a class is a critical
policy tool.
FRSs are highly active opioids, almost identical to
fentanyl except for a tiny difference in their chemical
structure created by changing a single ingredient during
synthesis. The result of this tweak is a new, potent opioid
with the same deadly effects as fentanyl--and without class
scheduling would be legal until it caused numerous deaths.
Fentanyls are so toxic and lethal that they can be classified--
and have actually been used--as chemical weapons. The lethal
dose is merely 2 milligrams, equivalent to 5 grains of sand,
meaning that 1 teaspoon can kill 2,000 people. That is what is
in this packet of sugar. It could kill 2,000 people if this
were fentanyl.
Telling parents--tragically, on more than one occasion,
even friends of mine--that their child will never come home is
the worst part of my job. In fact, the inspiration for FRS
class scheduling arose out of the tragedy of my friend Lauri
Badura's son, Archie. Archie was an altar server with my
daughters. He started with prescription opioids, then moved to
heroin and, unknowingly, fentanyl. I resuscitated Archie on his
second-to-last overdose. At that time, I pulled out a body bag,
laid it down next to him, and warned him that that's where he'd
end up if he didn't seek help. He stayed clean for 6 months,
until illicit fentanyl entered his life. One of the last things
my friend Lauri saw of her son Archie was him being zipped up
into a body bag.
Motivated to act by hundreds of such deaths, FRS scheduling
legislation came together quickly and was enacted unanimously
in the Wisconsin legislature in 2017. DEA adopted it as
national policy shortly thereafter, but only Congress can make
it permanent. Some who oppose point to deaths from illicit
fentanyl as proof that it doesn't work, but this is a
misunderstanding of the facts. FRS scheduling does not address
illicit fentanyl. It was never designed to do so. It only
removed the incentive for legal chemical companies to create
new FRSs, thus stopping them from ever existing in the first
place.
There is no quick and easy solution to the scourge of
illicit fentanyl, but the solution to FRSs is a simple
legislative fix, one that you have before you right now. At its
core, FRS scheduling is not an extension of the War on Drugs or
a law enforcement strategy designed to incarcerate. There have
been a total of eight Federal prosecutions under the language
as of 2021, half of which had already been known to have ties
to drug cartels. As well, there has never been a prosecution
for a nonbioactive FRS, because there are none. All fentanyl-
related substances encountered to date have been found to have
potent opioid activity. One of them is 7,000 times more potent
than morphine.
However, if Schedule I penalties were removed for FRS
trafficking, then it would reincentivize their creation and
significantly weaken the law's most powerful, proactive, and
preventative effects. There is a time and place for criminal
justice reform, but FRS scheduling is not it. Some suggest FRS
scheduling would have a negative impact on research. While
theoretical, it has been addressed with stakeholder input and
is supported by the very agencies and organizations
representing academic scientific research, including the NIH,
HHS, FDA, and the National Institute of Drug Abuse. The HALT
Fentanyl Act would significantly loosen restrictions into
studying all Schedule I substances, not just FRSs, and open up
promising areas of substance abuse research.
In conclusion, for the past 6 years, FRS scheduling has
been Federal policy. As the primary architect of the Wisconsin
law, I could not be more pleased. In a few short years, the
creation and distribution of new FRSs has ground to a halt. In
our battle against fentanyl, the elimination of related
substances that had previously escaped our scheduling and
devastated communities across the Nation are surely one bright
spot, but Congress must take action and permanently close the
spigot of FRSs. The fact is you can't die from ingesting
something never created, nor can you be incarcerated for
trafficking something that does not exist. That's the beauty
and simplicity of FRS scheduling. Thanks again for this time,
and I look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Westlake appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Cornyn. Doctor, I'm going to introduce you, but I
don't want to get your last name mispronounced. Is it Farfan?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Correct.
Senator Cornyn. Okay, good. I guessed correctly. I'd be
happy to hear your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF CECILIA FARFAN-MENDEZ, PH.D., AFFILIATED
RESEARCHER, INSTITUTE ON GLOBAL CONFLICT AND COOPERATION,
UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Thank you. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking
Member Durbin, and Members of the Committee, thank you for
conducting this hearing and the opportunity to explain why
saving lives in North America requires productive engagement
with Mexico. I appreciate the invitation to participate.
I am an expert on organized crime and U.S.-Mexico security
cooperation. As an alumna of the Fulbright program, I am
convinced that transnational problems require transnational
solutions. To the families who testified today, I acknowledge
your grief. There are no actions that can reverse the tragedies
you have experienced. My testimony today does not seek to
invalidate yours. On the contrary, it is precisely because I
have witnessed and collaborated with families on both sides of
the Border that have lost loved ones to overdoses, homicides,
and disappearances that I am here to offer what I believe is a
more helpful and sustainable path forward.
On January 22, Secretary Rubio stated that America's
foreign policy must be justified by answering three simple
questions. Does it make America safer? Does it make America
stronger? Does it make America more prosperous? As a scholar
who has dedicated her professional career to studying and
working toward constructive U.S.-Mexico relations, it is my
strong professional opinion that the United States can only be
safer, stronger, and prosperous if its neighbors are afforded
the same opportunity.
Suffering on both sides of the Border is inextricably
linked. The U.S. is facing one of its worst public health
crises due to the availability of illicitly manufactured
fentanyl, and Mexico faces its own lethal epidemic, with 70
percent of homicides perpetrated with a firearm. More than 40
percent of Americans know someone who has died from an opioid
overdose. Equally important, homicide is a leading cause of
death for men ages 25 to 44 and the second cause of death for
women ages 15 to 24 in Mexico.
Worryingly, the urgency to save lives is reviving the worst
policy failures of the War on Drugs. With thousands of lives at
risk on both sides of the Border, it is urgent that the U.S.
and Mexico implement policies based on facts. Through their
public sectors, civil society, and academia, both countries
have developed robust evidence on how to acquire and maintain
the health and safety of our communities. Fentanyl and firearms
trafficking have changed dynamics in criminal markets. But
these changes are not as simple as prevailing narratives of
organized crime suggest.
Even though places like Sinaloa, Mexico, have been
portrayed as a Shangri-La for criminality, transnational drug
trafficking in Mexico to the U.S. is not masterminded by three
men hiding in the mountains. There is no special narco-highway
connecting the highlands of Sinaloa to the streets of LA or
Philadelphia. But actors in Mexico and the U.S. that take
advantage of legal economies for the advancement of illicit
activities. For example, the most recent data from the U.S.
Sentencing Commission shows that for Fiscal Year 2023, 86.4
percent of people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking were U.S.
citizens.
Serious policy conversations on addressing mortality caused
by synthetic drugs cannot be separate from firearms
trafficking. Low production costs are often cited as a key
reason suppliers moved away from heroin and into synthetic
opioids like fentanyl. Overlooked in this conversation is that
the same has happened with firearms and ammunition. The ease of
acquiring firearms from the U.S. has lowered the cost of
perpetrating violence for criminal groups in Mexico.
Even though there are significant variations as to the
frequency and ways criminal groups use violence, they all must
issue credible threats on their ability to perpetrate this
violence. Their businesses depend on it. The newer and the more
sophisticated the armament is, then the more credible these
threats become. Why intimidate potential victims with a rifle
left over from the Mexican Revolution, when your arsenal can
include 50-caliber weapons?
This strategy has paid off for organized crime, including
those involved in fentanyl trafficking. According to data
released by the ATF, of the firearms recovered in Mexico that
were submitted for tracing, more than two-thirds were sourced
from the U.S.
Today, 74 percent of Mexicans believe criminal groups have
more and better weapons than the armed forces. Access to
illegally trafficked weapons from the U.S. has allowed Mexican
criminal groups to amass both a tremendous capacity for
violence and a troubling capacity to intimidate. Simply stated,
by failing to address firearms trafficking to Mexico, the U.S.
is subsidizing the operating costs of criminal groups. It is as
if cartels receive an annual aid package with state-of-the-art
technology to carry out the crimes this Congress wants to stop.
Our shared tragedies are two sides of the same coin. The
silver lining is that there is no secret solution awaiting to
be discovered. Actions available to Congress like the Stop
Arming Cartels Act can contribute to stemming the devastating
effects of this public health crisis and must be implemented
through U.S.-Mexico security cooperation. Thank you for your
time, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Farfan-Mendez appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Cornyn. Sheriff Barnes?
STATEMENT OF DONALD BARNES, SHERIFF; VICE PRESIDENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY, MAJOR COUNTY SHERIFFS OF AMERICA; AND SHERIFF-CORONER
OF ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA
Sheriff Barnes. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin,
thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I'm
here representing the Major County Sheriffs of America, a
professional law enforcement association of the 100 largest
sheriffs in the Nation, serving more than one-third of our
Nation's population. As sheriff of Orange County, I lead an
agency of more than 4,000 men and women serving 3.1 million
residents. Orange County consistently ranks as one of the
safest in the Nation. But like every community, we have felt
the devastating impacts of the fentanyl crisis.
The fentanyl epidemic is one of the most pressing public
safety and public health crises to impact our Nation. In just a
few short years, nationwide drug-related deaths have tripled, a
direct correlation to the prevalence of fentanyl. While we saw
a slight decrease in nationwide fatalities in 2023, the numbers
remain alarmingly high, with annual deaths still approaching
100,000 annually. In California, we saw fentanyl deaths
increase from 239 in 2016 to nearly 7,000 in 2023. Mexico-based
cartels taking advantage of the crisis at our Border have
flooded our communities with deadly fentanyl.
This is evidenced by the drug seizures made by my
department's investigative teams. Over the past 4 years, these
teams have seized a total of 1,551 pounds of fentanyl powder
and over 3 million clandestine-produced fentanyl pills. What's
even more alarming than the sheer volume is the dramatic
increase in seizures during that same time period. Since 2021,
my investigative teams seized 16,278 pills, whereas in 2024
that number skyrocketed to over 2 million. And that's just my
agency, alone.
The fight against the fentanyl epidemic in California is
incredibly challenging, given our close proximity to the
Border, national drug trends, and our State's permissive drug
laws. Proposition 47, passed in 2014, largely decriminalized
most drug and property crimes. Our attempts to seek action by
the State legislature largely fell on deaf ears. When we first
saw the signs of fentanyl 2025, we proposed legislation that
would enhance penalties for trafficking fentanyl similar to
trafficking cocaine and heroin. This bill failed, year after
year after year, while deaths continued to increase. Sadly, in
some instances our proposal was met with ridicule by those far
too devoted to extreme anti-incarceration policies. We also
faced complications due to California sanctuary laws, which
limits our communication with our Federal partners.
Despite this grim picture, there is hope. In Orange County,
we have seen fentanyl deaths fall from a high of 717 in 2021 to
613 in 2023, while the State continues to rise. This progress
is a result of our ongoing multi-faceted strategy that focuses
on both supply and demand for illicit drugs. The strategy
includes investing dollars in narcotics teams and resources;
working with the U.S. attorney to prosecute individuals who
sell drugs that result in the death of another; creating a new,
innovative drug education program taught in our schools. Since
2016, deputies who carry naloxone have resulted in over 600
lives saved within our community. In our jails we have created
SUD step-down units and have a Medication-Assisted Treatment
program serving more than 1,300 people every day.
Congress can help this progress by moving forward many of
the initiatives authored and supported by Members of this
Committee. First and foremost, we must firmly schedule fentanyl
analogues as a Schedule I drug. The House is taking up the HALT
Fentanyl Act this week. I want to thank Chairman Grassley and
Members of the Committee for leading this effort in the Senate.
HIDTA funding increases would be a significant help.
Funding for HIDTA has remained static over the last 10 years.
MCSA is grateful that Members of this Committee are
prioritizing the reauthorization of HIDTA. I look forward to
working with you to advance legislation like the HIDTA
Enhancement Act, which would have reauthorized the HIDTA
program at $333 million annually.
We need to protect law enforcement tools. MCSA strongly
opposes legislation that would restrict or eliminate law
enforcement's access to data necessary to investigate fentanyl
trafficking organizations. We also advocate for providing law
enforcement lawful access to encrypted devices, which is
crucial for identifying those responsible for distributing
lethal fentanyl.
Last, MCSA supports bipartisan legislation crucial for
addressing SUD within the criminal justice system by focusing
on continuous care, successful reintegration, and, most
importantly, sustained sobriety post release from our jails.
I'm honored to be here today, and I'm looking forward to
answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Sheriff Barnes appears as a
submission for the record.]
Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Sheriff. I'll start my round of
questions, and then we'll turn to Senator Durbin. Mr. Puerta
and Ms. Norring, I think it's only appropriate that we should
express our condolences for your loss. You know, when things
like this happen, I usually try to figure out, well, is there
any way we can take something terrible and tragic and hopefully
learn some lessons and make things better and save lives in the
future? And so thank you for being courageous and telling your
story. I know it's not easy, but it's very important for people
across this country to understand how this can happen to them
and their family.
And having visited with a number of families in Texas,
various school districts, I've come to believe that this
requires a layered approach, maybe starting at the kitchen
table with awareness of our children to the threat, because
none of them take these counterfeit drugs knowingly, at least
knowing that they're able to take their lives--that it contains
contaminated fentanyl. But I do believe it's going to require
all of us, from parents, families, school districts, and local
law enforcement, the State and Federal law enforcement, and
border security.
Sheriff Barnes, it's my understanding that most of the
chemicals that go into fentanyl basically have been traced back
to China. Is that your understanding, as well?
Sheriff Barnes. Yes, Senator. There is an issue with
precursor chemicals transiting from China through our U.S.
ports and directly through China. Yes.
Senator Cornyn. And as I understand some of the
announcements relating to the tariffs that President Trump has
announced, his administration has said this isn't so much a
trade policy as it is an anti-fentanyl policy, to finally get
the Chinese government's attention, to do something about the
precursors that emanate from that country. But then, as you
point out, they make their way to Mexico, where the cartels are
putting them into pill presses and making them look like
relatively innocuous drugs, only to turn out to be contaminated
with fentanyl and take the lives of people, unbeknownst to
them. Do you believe that, with improved border security, we
can begin to stop some of the flow of the illicit drugs coming
across the Border, including fentanyl?
Sheriff Barnes. Yes, Senator. What you describe is a very
complex system, almost a supply chain, that starts in China,
using transit going to Mexico, the pill presses. It's not doing
any one thing--it's doing 12 things simultaneously. So I do
believe that addressing this issue is much more complicated
than just any one thing. The HALT Act is a great start. You
know, when you look at the pill presses pressing pills, that's
one issue. The border obviously is going to be the most
significant issue, as we shut down the Border and the pathway
for those--for illicit fentanyl to make its way back into the
United States. But it's that and many other things that have to
take place.
Senator Cornyn. So, I heard Senator Durbin's statement,
which I disagree with, that says that the vast majority of the
fentanyl comes across the ports of entry, transported by
American citizens. Is there anybody on the panel who subscribes
to that point of view?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. [Hand is raised.]
Senator Cornyn. Dr. Farfan? Do you think any one of the 1.7
million got-aways during the last 4 years have been
transporting fentanyl?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. One point seven million of----
Senator Cornyn. Well, during the Biden administration, out
of the millions of people that were welcomed into the country
and released, there were 1.7 million that appeared on various
sensors, cameras and things like that, that evaded law
enforcement and made their way into the interior of the United
States. Do you think any one of those 1.7 million individuals
that were evading law enforcement were transporting fentanyl?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I mean, to restate what I mentioned in
my testimony, data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission shows
that 86.4 people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking in Fiscal
Year 2023 were U.S. citizens.
Senator Cornyn. And that's not my question.
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I would also add----
Senator Cornyn. My question is about the people who evaded
law enforcement. Is it possible that some of them, or maybe
even many of them, were transporting illicit drugs, including
fentanyl?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. As someone who studies organized crime,
that would be a really bad business decision. Drug traffickers
deal with a lot of----
Senator Cornyn. Sounds to me like a very profitable
decision on the part of the cartels, to evade law enforcement
and to be able to deliver your drugs, your load, into the
United States, only to make a lot of money from it. Why is that
a bad business decision?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Because from a business point of view,
you would prefer to have smugglers who have a legal right to
entry into the United States than an immigrant who is uncertain
whether or not he or she is going to cross into the United
States. So, if you're looking at it from the point of view of,
will we turn a profit or not in this particular shipment,
putting your shipment in the hands of an immigrant who does not
have a legal right to entry into the U.S. is actually a bad
business decision.
Senator Cornyn. Sheriff Barnes, do you agree with that?
Sheriff Barnes. I do not. There's two different facets
here. You have the trafficking of the narcotic, which is
oftentimes in large bulk. And our experience in intervention
and interdiction is those are oftentimes residents of Mexico.
The distribution of that or sales of it--I think, to Dr.
Farfan's point, might oftentimes be carried out by U.S.
citizens and the drug trafficking market. So, it's a
combination of both. But the vast majority of the large
quantities coming across, it has been my experience, are being
conducted by Mexican nationals. The distribution and sales
inside the continental United States oftentimes is being
carried out by U.S. citizens.
Chairman Grassley [presiding]. Thank you. Senator Durbin.
Senator Durbin. Thank you all for being here. How many of
you would this be your first time to see the Senate Judiciary
Committee? Would you raise your hand?
[Witnesses' hands are raised.]
Senator Durbin. A few of our witnesses--and others, the
first time. This is an interesting Committee. It represents the
spectrum of politics in the United States Senate. We have the
most Republican Republicans and the most Democratic Democrats
sitting on this Committee. So, you won't be surprised that many
times we disagree, and that disagreement sometimes leads to
good speeches but very few laws. But there was an exception.
Two years ago, we took up this issue and started talking about
what we could do to stop the spread of fentanyl and the deadly
impact it's having on America. And we actually voted, in this
Committee, on a bipartisan basis, unanimously, for five
measures that dealt with social media.
Your point, Mrs. Norring--if Snapchat were a store on the
corner selling fentanyl-laden Percocets, and it happened one
time, and they could be sued, that would be the end of the
story. But we learned through Section 230 that social media
gets off the hook. Mrs. Norring, you're joining families, I
understand, that are trying to hold them responsible for your
son's death and other deaths, as well. I couldn't support you
more.
Now, let me tell you what happened. We passed bills in this
Committee holding Big Tech and social media responsible.
Unanimously. Now, there are four or five new Members of the
Committee, but every Member of the Committee 2 years ago voted
for it. Democrat and Republican, conservative and liberal, all
voted for the measure. And what happened as a result of that
combined bipartisan effort? Nothing. Nothing. Speeches. That's
what happened. We failed, as Democrats in the Majority in the
Senate, the Republicans failed, as the Majority in the House,
to pass any measure. There, I said it. Democrats bear
responsibility and Republicans, as well. We've got to be honest
about this.
Why? Why would something as popular and as obvious as that
fail before the Congress? Well, because there were powerful
forces that have a lot of money at stake and don't want
liability, who will piously and publicly say they love this
measure, it makes all the sense in the world. And then when the
doors close and they get a chance to speak to Members
individually, they flip and they take the opposite position,
and nothing happens.
Chuck Grassley's my friend. I've gotten in trouble for
that. But I'm proud of it. We go back a long ways. I went to
him yesterday and said, this time, you're the Chairman. I'm the
Ranking Democrat. I'm here to help you pass legislation to do
something. I'm sick and tired of excuses being made and people
dying as a result of it. And I think it's time for us, on a
bipartisan basis, to find things we agree with.
Now, I don't know where the sources are. I think Dr. Farfan
makes a valid argument. Sheriff Barnes, I respect very much
your responsibility in law enforcement and have a different
point of view. We may never resolve that basic question. But I
think we can all resolve we don't care where the hell it's
coming from--we want it to stop. We want to stop it in China,
we want to stop it in Mexico, we want to stop it at our
backyards, however it's getting into the United States. So, to
those who are familiar with this Committee, this is where it
has to start. We won't agree on every aspect, everything as a
result of it, but we can agree on some basics that make a
difference.
Mrs. Norring, you've testified before about your son and
the loss of his life. Senator Klobuchar told me that. And I'd
like to ask you what the families are doing, that you've
gathered with, to hold Snapchat and others liable?
Ms. Norring. So, the families and I--Mr. Puerta, Amy
Neville, sitting behind me--we filed suit against Snapchat. We
are in the process of making it through the courts, as we
speak. There's--oh, my God, how many? They have hundreds of
cases behind ours. For a while, it was looking pretty grim. I
mean, Snapchat has been immune for so long, and it's now making
its way through. We just got word that we're going into
discovery.
Senator Durbin. Mr. Puerta?
Mr. Puerta. Yes, sir. It passed on, to Judge Lawrence Riff,
on January 4 of 2023, I believe----
Ms. Norring. Yes.
Mr. Puerta [continuing]. Accepted the lawsuit, and--I'm
sorry, 2024--not on the basis of free speech but on the basis
of product design. That went on to the appellate court in
California, and the appellate court favored--ruled in our favor
for the lawsuit to go forward. So, right now we are in
discovery. No other lawsuit against any major social media
company has gotten as far as ours, sir.
Senator Durbin. I wish you well. I'll close by saying we're
dealing with fentanyl and the deadly aspects of that drug, and
we're also dealing with sexual exploitation, particularly of
children. And a number of Members here have shown real
leadership: Senator Blackburn on the Republican side, and
Senator Blumenthal on the Democratic side, especially. We all
have bills. We can do this. Hold us responsible. Don't just
come and leave and think nothing's going to happen. It's our
job to make sure it does happen and do the right thing for you
and your families. Thank you very much.
Chairman Grassley. Yes. And I thank Senator Durbin for
bringing up our conversation that we had yesterday on the floor
of the United States Senate, and I suggested to him then--but I
want our staffs to know--that our staffs should sit down and
see what can be worked out.
Senator Durbin. That's good.
Chairman Grassley. You bet. Now I'll ask questions, and
then I'll call on Klobuchar.
Leading up to this hearing, my office received 58 letters
from grieving families who lost loved ones to fentanyl. I want
to offer those letters into the record and thank the families
for writing them. So, without objection, that will be done.
[The information appears as submissions for the record.]
Chairman Grassley. One mother wrote, quote, ``Families like
mine have been sharing our stories of loss to this poison since
before 2018, hoping to ignite action among our leaders.
Tragically, despite hundreds of thousands of stories like mine,
over countless years, we have yet to see a massive, unified
effort necessary to stop this poisoning of our generations,''
end of quote. Many of these letters urge Congress to pass the
legislation that goes by the acronym HALT Fentanyl, which would
make the class scheduling of fentanyl-related substances very
permanent. Mr. Puerta, Dr. Westlake, Sheriff Barnes--in that
order--could you each briefly explain why permanent class
scheduling is important to tackling this crisis?
Mr. Puerta. I believe that it'll increase penalties for
trafficking and distribution. It also will streamline
prosecution by removing the burden of proving whether a
particular fentanyl analogue is harmful. It would be illegal by
default. And it would give authorities greater flexibility, as
well, to target emerging fentanyl analogues before they flood
the market.
Chairman Grassley. Dr. Westlake?
Mr. Westlake. So, I think it goes back to the whole point
of me coming up with this idea--was to stop the creation of
these. So, what this does is it stops them from existing to
begin with. We've looked at all the possible bioactive
modifications to the fentanyl molecule and surgically scheduled
those modifications. And so what it's done--and it's proven to
be done--so, is it stopped them from existing in the first
place.
So, no one's going to jail for them, no one's dying from
them--because they don't exist. It's the perfect form of
prevention. There's a lot of disease--with a disease, the best
place to hit a disease is at the beginning. If you can stop a
diabetic from becoming diabetic, you know, they're not going to
have the problems of having their leg amputated or being on
dialysis later. That's what this does--is this stops the very
existence. It's one spigot. Illicit fentanyl's a huge fire
hydrant. This is one spigot, but Congress can turn it off, and
that's what they should do.
Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Sheriff Barnes?
Sheriff Barnes. Chairman Grassley, I'll summarize the two
previous speakers this way. First, with the Controlled
Substances Act not including it as an analogue, we saw this
happen with methamphetamines back in the 90s, where there were
analogue knockoffs, and it made it very difficult for
prosecution. Most of our States' laws are tied to the
Controlled Substances Act, so preclusion of it would eliminate
the probability of prosecuting somebody for it. And I'll agree
with the doctor when he said if we include these now, it will
disincentivize the knockoffs of the analogues, because they
will be, by default, included, which will solve the previous
problem of prosecutions at the State level.
Chairman Grassley. Sheriff Barnes, the Center for Disease
Control reported that 100,000 Americans died each year from
drug overdoses. As I've said, 75,000 of those related to
fentanyl. And that's been at least over the last 4 years. We've
only recently seen a decline. Do you think that we've got a
handle on the emergency drug threats? And if not, what do we
need to do better?
Sheriff Barnes. Chair Grassley, I don't believe we have a
handle on it. I think we're finally responding to it. The CDC
first reported back in 2014, just over 10 years ago, 4 percent
of the Nation's drug-related deaths were attributed to
fentanyl. Five years later, that increased tenfold to 40
percent and almost doubled all over again in the 5 years since.
We've seen this coming. We've been nonresponsive to it. So, I
think that we have seen an emergent trend. We have been playing
defense.
As I shared earlier, with my response to Senator Cornyn, I
believe it's not doing any one thing, it's doing a dozen things
simultaneously that's going to put us in a better position. And
first and foremost, as much as people don't want to recognize
it, we have to deal with some--we have to deal with the demand
side of this issue north of the Border, with our addiction
crisis in this country, to get people in sobriety, which would
then deal with the narcotics economy on the supply chain side
of it by eliminating the need for the narcotics north of the
Border. I think that's the most important thing that we can do,
as a country.
Chairman Grassley. My last question will have to be to Mr.
Puerta. Thank you for sharing your son's story. I said that
before, but we can't say it too often. Some folks have said
that scheduling fentanyl-related substances as a class creates
a system that over-criminalizes drug crimes. What's your
response to that?
Mr. Puerta. I'm Hispanic American. I'm Colombian American.
And I believe that a lot, if not the grand majority, of the
children who are dying today--The New England Journal of
Medicine came out with a report in January of 2024, and it came
to the conclusion that in 2020 we were losing 22 nonaddicted
children in the United States of America, per week, between the
ages of 14 and 18 years of age, mostly driven by illicit
fentanyl pills that were deceptively sold to them. Are we to
stand back and not do anything because we're going to over-
criminalize this?
Every time I get up in the morning, I look in the mirror. I
see a brown man. But I see an American man, as well, and I see
that the injustice--also, this crisis is decimating, decimating
minorities, as well. This does not discriminate on your age. It
doesn't discriminate your race. It doesn't discriminate your
religion, your socioeconomic status. It doesn't discriminate.
It's taking everyone by storm. And we, as a Nation, have to
come together, and we have to do something to stop this.
In 2020, with COVID-19, we all knew that we had to stand 6
feet away from each other, that we had to wash our hands, and
we had to wear a mask over our faces. Why does the American
public not know about this crisis that is a national security
crisis, as well, sir? We have a lot to do, but I'm telling you
right now, this is taking everyone by storm, and something has
to be done.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Norring, I
think everyone was touched by your story and your bravery for
coming forward. I've been honored to get to know you, and I
want to thank you for everything that you've done. As you said,
all the hopes and dreams we as parents had for Devin were
erased in the blink of an eye, and no mom should have to bury
their kid. Those were your words, and I know the words of all
of your friends there, that stand there to support you and have
had their own pain. All he did was buy a pill off Snapchat,
thought it was a Percocet.
You were there for that testimony with the Tech executives,
and there's a bunch of us here that have had some, you know,
battle wounds going after them, when we just want to put some
sensible rules in place or get rid of those legal protections
that they have, that other companies do not have, as you so
well pointed out--but no wounds compared to what you have. You
heard their testimony back then, in January 2024. Do you think
the social media companies are doing enough to stop the sale of
drugs to kids online?
Ms. Norring. I do not think that they are doing enough. In
fact, it's still continuing. I was introduced to two new
families just last week, from Minnesota, both with ties to
fentanyl, with their children's passing. So, no, they're not
doing enough. They could be doing more. I was just informed
that Evan Spiegel is in support of the Cooper Davis and Devin
Norring Act, and I must ask, then, if you are in such support
of it--all these companies are in support of the Kids Online
Safety Act--why aren't they implementing those features and
doing the job now? Why do we have to come before Congress and
make--have you make them do that?
Senator Klobuchar. Good point. Thank you. Mr. Puerta, do
you think we should get rid of or reform Section 230 in some
way, just to make this very clear?
Mr. Puerta. Absolutely, Senator Klobuchar. In 1996, as we
all know, this legislative body came up with the Section 230(c)
of the Communications Decency Act. And what it was meant to do
was to protect free speech. But what's happening right now
cannot be free speech, when you have a drug dealer selling
illicit fentanyl to unsuspecting children. That's not free
speech. Or a grown man sending unwarranted pictures to young
ladies, sexual exploitation. This is not free speech. This is
criminal behavior, and like Ms. Norring said, if it's criminal,
if it's a criminal act in the real world, then it should be, as
well, in the social media world.
Senator Klobuchar. So, you're looking for that reform,
which also I appreciate you bringing up. Senator Cruz and I
have this TAKE IT DOWN Act. There's a number of other bills
involving pornography, as well. Sheriff Barnes, do you agree
that we should--thank you for your testimony and being here.
Funding, as we look into this next year--funding for law
enforcement--do you think that that is important, to take on
this fentanyl crisis, as well as the HIDTA program that helps
your deputies get fentanyl off the streets?
Sheriff Barnes. Senator, yes. Thank you for that question.
The HIDTA funding has been stagnant, stale for the last 10
years, hasn't grown. If you look at the time value of money,
it's about a one-third reduction over the last 10 years. And
our costs have gone up, so it's about 50 cents on the dollar.
It's not a fully funded program. My HIDTA program is funded at
about one-sixth of the costs that we put into it, and mostly
it's subsidized through my investment of stabilizing that, as
other municipal agencies have withdrawn personnel. So, yes, I
think at this, the Nation's worst time in history, we have to
reinvest those moneys. We have to look at the use of those
moneys, and I think we have to look at what I call super-HIDTA.
The original intent of the gateway HIDTA is to invest on the
greatest offense, which is our border HIDTAs, and stop as much
of the drugs as we can at the Border, before they make it into
the continental United States.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Dr. Westlake, why does class-
wide scheduling reduce the incentives for drug cartels to
create new fentanyl variants?
Mr. Westlake. So, the incentives were there before, because
when they initially created these without--under the normal
Controlled Substances Act, they were legal, so they could
modify it. Instead of putting an ethyl group in, you could put
a methyl group in. It's a legal substance. I was on the
Controlled Substances Board in Wisconsin in 2015. We had nine
different fentanyl variants, fentanyl-related substances that
were killing people. We could schedule them immediately, and
then they were illegal.
And when you schedule them and make them illegal, there's
no incentive for them to be created anymore. And there's a
cookbook of changes that you can do easily, look up the
research to find what different chemicals to use. So it
literally just stops the incentive. It doesn't stop illicit
fentanyl incentive, but it closes the spigot of fentanyl-
related substances.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. One last point, Ms. Norring,
and we'll talk more in this Committee. I am so pleased that
Senator Grassley and Durbin will lead this together on some of
the social media issues that go way beyond the ones we've
talked about now. But you've also embarked on an education
campaign, along with a lot of our sheriffs in Minnesota, that I
think has been pretty effective: going back in the schools with
``One Pill Can Kill.'' Ten seconds on that, and I'm out of
time.
Ms. Norring. We have to do it, because nobody else is doing
it. It falls back on us. If we sit by and say nothing, children
continue to die. So, we feel it's our obligation to get out
there, educate our community and the children, because, as--
mentioned, the conversation really begins at home. It really
has to begin at home.
Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Norring. Thank you.
Chairman Grassley. Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all of you
for being here and sharing your insights today. The fentanyl
crisis has infiltrated our homes, our schools, our communities,
our workplaces, taking lives and destroying lives at an
unprecedented rate. In Utah, fentanyl-related deaths are
rising, and they've become a devastating reality for far too
many families. Seems everyone knows someone--and in Utah, in
many cases, almost everyone is related to someone--who has been
impacted adversely, if not lost their life, due to this crisis.
From 2014 through 2023, deaths involving fentanyl surged by
a staggering 116 percent. In 2023 alone, over 600 times, in
Utah, someone returned home to find their son, their daughter,
their sibling, their parent had lost their life due to a tragic
opioid overdose. This marks a dramatic increase from just 23
deaths in 2014. Now, in 2023, Utah set a record for the most
fentanyl pills seized in a year. Then, by the very next year,
just 6 months into the year, by July of 2024, the DEA's Rocky
Mountain Field Division had already confiscated well in excess
of that, close to 800,000 pills, surpassing the entire year,
record-breaking year, of 2023, which recorded 664,200 pills in
just 6 months.
The sharp increase in fentanyl-related deaths has
significantly outpaced the decline that we've seen in deaths
from prescription opioids. So, we took all these steps as the
crisis emerged as significant, you know, roughly a decade or
so, and then all of a sudden we've seen the number of deaths
from the nonprescription-related drugs exceeding those. The
number of fentanyl-related deaths more than doubled between
2019 and 2020 alone, and that trend has only gotten worse since
then.
The victims of this deadly scourge include our loved ones,
our neighbors, our friends. Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring, thank
you for being with us today, in particular, and for sharing
your testimonies, and deeply sorry for your loss. No parent
should ever have to face that heartbreak, and heartbroken for
you, that you have.
President Trump has prioritized securing our borders and
prosecuting violent gang members who traffic fentanyl into our
country and throughout our communities, and Congress--I hope we
can stand with him in his effort to make America safe again.
Sheriff Barnes, I'd like to start with you. From October 2023
to October 2024, officials seized roughly 22,000 pounds of
fentanyl at U.S. ports, U.S. ports of entry, equaling nearly
1.1 million doses. Now, according to the DEA, ingesting just 2
milligrams of fentanyl can be fatal. Federal officials estimate
that, at most, 10 percent of fentanyl crossing from Mexico is
actually caught. Do you believe the Biden administration's open
border policies contributed to that rapid increase of fentanyl
entering the United States illegally? And, if so, what can be
done to reverse that now?
Sheriff Barnes. Senator, unequivocally, the crisis at the
Border that allowed the drug trafficking organizations, the
cartels, opened a gateway, and they exposed our weaknesses and
used it against us. So, yes, the open border policy undoubtedly
resulted in harms to this country through the trafficking of
not just fentanyl but human trafficking and other things that
put us at risk, not to mention the 1.4 million got-aways that
we have no idea who they are. There's so much greater risks
beyond fentanyl that were created as a result of the open
border policies.
Senator Lee. Right. I appreciate what you've done in Orange
County. It's sparked the creation of all kinds of memes that
are, in fact, flattering of your county, of the efforts that
you have undertaken there--memes suggesting, for example, that
when people cross into your county, they're sometimes shocked
to learn the extent to which you're willing to enforce the law.
And yet California law, in some meaningful ways, has impeded
your ability to enforce the law and make Californians safer.
What can you tell us about that and how sanctuary jurisdictions
are adversely affecting your work?
Sheriff Barnes. Well, first, as far as laws, in 2014 we had
Prop 47 passed. We just had Prop 36 pass, which reversed a lot
of the Prop 47 impacts. We're already seeing incarceration
rates go up, which is on repetitive crime, so we're seeing some
positive results there with accountability being restored back
into California. Regarding the issues--your second question was
specific to immigration----
Senator Lee. Sanctuary jurisdictions and California law,
whether----
Sheriff Barnes. We--I can speak for myself. I cooperate
with our Federal partners to the extent allowable by law. I
believe those are creating harms by restricting our ability to
communicate. I have to release people back into our communities
that reoffend, to come right back. I do not believe they should
be allowed to do that. I would support changing that--challenge
that law and give us the ability to cooperate with our Federal
partners.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
Chairman Grassley. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to
thank you for having this hearing, and the Ranking Member, as
well. This cause should unite us across the aisle, and I think
today's hearing reflects that kind of bipartisan support for
stronger measures to stop social media from spreading and
selling and distributing fentanyl and other toxic chemicals.
And I've been pleased to work across the aisle with Senator
Blackburn on the Kids Online Safety bill, which would
dramatically and significantly reduce the threat of these
drugs.
And we're going to be reintroducing that bill, I hope again
with the kind of support that was reflected in the 91-to-3 vote
in the United States Senate, supporting that bill. Been pleased
to work with Senator Cruz and Senator Graham on measures that
would reduce that threat of social media--and others on the
Committee, the Ranking Member, and yourself.
I want to raise an issue first that I think is tremendously
relevant to this topic, because it indicates a diminution, an
undercutting of law enforcement, which is the mass purges that
are taking place among the ranks of our FBI. There's no denying
that FBI agents have been fired, have been suspended, and
otherwise disciplined for assignments that they took, on
orders, in connection with certain criminal investigations.
Those massive purges are directly contrary to the assurances we
were given by Kash Patel.
He said to us, when I asked him directly, pointedly, all
FBI employees will be protected against political retribution.
This retribution undermines enforcement by the FBI of drug
cases and terrorism and other criminal cases. I ask, Mr.
Chairman, that we call back Kash Patel to explain how he could
deny that there would be political retribution when, the next
day, in fact, these massive purges began.
Likewise, Mr. Chairman, I'm asking questions about the
reassignment, apparently, of AUSAs--assistant U.S. attorneys,
from drug cases to immigration cases. We need them on the front
lines, prosecuting drug cases. We need FBI agents on the front
line. We can all agree, I think, on a bipartisan basis, that
assistant U.S. attorneys and other Federal prosecutors ought to
be at the tip of the spear and that this reassignment poses a
threat to law enforcement of exactly the prohibitions and the
dangers that bring us here today. And I hope that we can unite
around that cause--bring back Kash Patel for a second hearing
and jointly do our oversight, which we are mandated to do, on
this topic.
I want to thank our witnesses. Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, you
have suffered losses that are unspeakable. And all of you who
are so deeply engaged, hands on--the story about the body bag,
Mr. Westlake, I think I will always remember. I would like to
ask Ms. Norring and Mr. Puerta about the Kids Online Safety
bill and whether you believe that our leadership here in the
Senate and, most importantly, in the House--which was
responsible for stopping it after the 91-to-3 vote here in the
Senate--should support this legislation, Kids Online Safety
Act, which had such strong bipartisan backing here in the
United States Senate. Will it make a difference? Do you think
the House leadership ought to support it?
Ms. Norring. Thank you for that question, Senator
Blumenthal. I firmly believe that the House should support it.
Ninety-one to three, coming out of this Senate body, is
something that is so unheard of, and it happened on my birthday
last year. It was the first time in years I'd ever felt some
sort of peace. I finally felt hopeful that something was going
to be done to protect our children. And to see it fail in the
House, not even get out of the Committee--it's absurd, because
it's putting more children at harm. Not just from fentanyl but
all the other harms that are out there. So, I thank you for
your continued support on this bill.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Mr. Puerta?
Mr. Puerta. A lot of the social media companies are driving
these harmful algorithms to our children, and many nefarious
actors are taking advantage of that. And the Act does exactly
that. The Kids Online Safety Act is to try to protect them from
all of this nefarious activity and these harmful algorithms
that are reaching them on a daily basis. So, yes, I absolutely
back that bill and back you in anything that we can do to try
to get it over the finish line.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
Chairman Grassley. Before I call on Senator Cruz--when Cruz
is done, I'm going to leave for another meeting. Senator Britt
is going to take over. So if you'd come over here and sit now,
I'd appreciate it. Senator Cruz.
Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman--soon-to-be Madam
Chairman, thank you for hosting this very important debate and
this very important hearing. The American people in November
issued a clear and unequivocal mandate: The open borders we've
had for the last 4 years must be closed. We can no longer allow
criminals and cartels and gang members and deadly drugs to
stream across our Border. And President Trump has been working
every day since he was sworn in to keep his promise to secure
the Border. He declared a national emergency on the Southern
Border. He reinstated the Remain in Mexico policy. And, just
yesterday, President Trump negotiated that Mexico will station
10,000 troops at the Southern Border, to help stop the flow of
fentanyl into the United States. President Trump is doing his
part to meet the mandate from the voters.
We also, in Congress, must do our part to meet that
mandate. That's why I hope that this Committee supports the
HALT Fentanyl Act, an Act to permanently classify fentanyl-
related substances as Schedule I under the Controlled
Substances Act. Fentanyl and its analogues are extraordinarily
powerful and extraordinarily destructive. Congress and the
American people don't talk enough about fentanyl's
dangerousness. So, I'm going to talk a little bit about that.
Dr. Westlake, you are an emergency room physician. How much
fentanyl does it take to kill an adult human being?
Mr. Westlake. Well, this is 2,000--enough to kill 2,000
people, so it's 4 to 5 grains of sand is a lethal dose for an
opioid-naive patient.
[Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
record.]
Senator Cruz. Two milligrams----
Mr. Westlake. Yes.
Senator Cruz. Is what it takes. You see on this photograph
a penny. We all know the size of a penny. And those couple of
flakes there are enough to kill an adult human being. Dr.
Westlake, last year approximately how many people died due to
fentanyl overdoses?
Mr. Westlake. I believe it was around 70,000.
[Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
record.]
Senator Cruz. This means, on average, 6,250 died every
single month due to fentanyl. And it's a number that,
tragically, has skyrocketed during the Biden-Harris years.
Sheriff Barnes, as a law enforcement professional on the front
lines of the battle with fentanyl, can I ask you how many
pounds of fentanyl were seized by Customs and Border Patrol at
the Border last year?
Sheriff Barnes. Senator, unfortunately I can't answer that.
I can answer my organization, but I know it was a lot and
growing.
Senator Cruz. It was 2,250 pounds of fentanyl. An
astronomical figure.
And let's actually--I want to put this into context. This
packet of Sweet'N Low--this packet, if it were full of
fentanyl, could kill 500 people. Now take a look at this
container. It's a container we're all familiar with. If this
were full of fentanyl, it could kill 368,500 people. That's
more than the entire population of Corpus Christi, Texas, or
Lubbock, Texas.
Now let's look at another pack--something, again, all of us
likely have in our kitchen. This single bag of sugar, if it
were filled with fentanyl, could kill 905,000 people. Almost a
million people. This single bag could take out the entire
population of Austin, Texas, the capital of my home State. Now
imagine 562 of these bags. That's how much fentanyl came into
the United States of America in a single month. And how many
lethal doses of fentanyl is in 562 bags, what came in, in a
single month, last year? Five hundred and ten million lethal
doses. In 1 month, more fentanyl came into America than would
be needed to kill every single man, woman, and child in the
United States. This is a crisis we have to solve.
Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, thank you both for being here.
Thank you for your courage. I will say, as the father of two
teenage girls, you've lived a nightmare that every parent is
terrified of. What I would ask is, what would you say to
parents at home? What do parents at home need to know about
this? What do teenagers and kids at home need to know about the
dangers of fentanyl?
Mr. Puerta. If you don't think this can happen to you, I'm
sorry, but you're--I'm very sorry, but you're very sorely
mistaken. This is taking everybody by storm. That's what I
would tell every single parent. Due to the stigma of addiction
and overdose, though, most people think that this could not
affect their family because either they don't have somebody
who's addicted to drugs in their family or somebody who's using
drugs on a recreational basis.
But children make mistakes. I do not condone my son Daniel
wanting to self-medicate during the height of the pandemic for
whatever was happening in his head. I do not condone it. He
made a mistake, and the price that he paid was his life.
Children are supposed to make mistakes but not die from them.
Period. And that's what's happening every single day--22 times
a week, in the United States of America. We have to stop this.
Senator Cruz. Amen. Ms. Norring?
Ms. Norring. I echo the same thing. You know, that old
saying, ``Not my kid,'' take that out of your vocabulary,
because it could very well be your kid. We had every
conversation with our children about addiction, because
unfortunately on both sides of our family we have members that
suffer from SUD. But nobody, at the time, was talking about
this crisis. So I feel robbed of a conversation I could've had
with my son that could've saved his life. So, take that out of
your vocabulary. This very well could happen, and it can very
well happen.
These dealers are on Snapchat--all platforms, every single
one of them. And we've reported them. I know Mr. Puerta's
reported them. And 90--I shouldn't put a number out there, but
the majority of the time, it comes back as, this does not
violate our standards. So, monitor your children's social media
accounts. Have the conversation. It could save your child's
life.
Senator Cruz. Thank you for----
Ms. Norring. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cruz [continuing]. Your courage. Thank you.
Senator Britt [presiding]. Mr. Schiff.
Senator Schiff. Thank you all for being here, and I just
want to express my heartbreak at hearing about the loss of your
sons. I can't imagine what you've gone through. And like every
parent of college-aged kids or high-school-aged kids, I've had
those conversations with my kids, and I'm grateful that you're
here and willing to share experience, which it's so important
for us to hear.
I have a couple questions. Doctor, I want to ask you--
because one of the concerns I heard about the bill when it was
in the House was a concern that it could inhibit research. You
made a comment, but you made it too quickly for me to catch,
about NIH's view or others. Is there a need to have language to
make sure that the research can go on. Or do you feel that is a
non-issue for some reason?
Mr. Westlake. No, I--so, this is a compromise bill. The
initial language that came out was just pure scheduling
language. And then when there was concerns that it could impact
research negatively, the scheduling--or the research component
was added, and that was supported through the first Trump ONDCP
and then through the Biden ONDCP. The research accommodations
that were reached significantly open up all Schedule I
research, not just into fentanyl-related substances but into
all Schedule I, so--and that's why they support it: NIH, HHS,
FDA----
Senator Schiff. I see. So, that's been incorporated into a
new version of the bill?
Mr. Westlake. Correct, in the HALT Fentanyl--yes, in the--
--
Senator Schiff. Got you.
Mr. Westlake. It is in the HALT Fentanyl bill.
Senator Schiff. Okay. Thank you. That's----
Mr. Westlake. Yes, sir.
Senator Schiff [continuing]. Very helpful. And if I could
ask you, Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring, what do you think is
working, in terms of trying to educate families, young people?
And what more do we need to do? And I fully agree with the need
to make sure that the companies that are using their platforms
or allowing their platforms to be used need to be held liable
and accountable. But what do you think is working in terms of
educating both families but also schools and others about how
they should incorporate this into their teaching and have the
supplies on hand necessary to deal with emergencies?
Mr. Puerta. At Stop the VOID, our organization, along with
Project Facing Fentanyl, we have a documentary called, ``Dead
on Arrival.'' You can find it at stopthevoid.org. It's a 22-
minute documentary that we use in junior high schools and in
high schools across this Nation. In California, all of Orange
County high schools have done it, with Amy Neville presenting
the documentary.
I think education awareness is key in abating these
senseless drug deaths, because these kids just don't know. They
don't know what they're ingesting. They're dying because
they've been deceptively sold a counterfeit pill that they
think is a pharmaceutical grade oxycodone, for example, and it
turns out that it's a fake pill, and they end up dying, first
time used. Education awareness is working, but we're just a
small organization. We need to do this nationwide.
Mr. Steve Filson says it all the time: With COVID-19, we
all knew that we had to wash our hands and have a mask over our
faces. Why, on the national or on the Federal level--why have
we not had a PSA campaign of sorts, of warning all parents and
children of the impending danger of illicit--or, should I say,
recreational drug use? I think that's very key, because again,
due to the stigma of addiction and overdose, most kids and most
parents don't understand the problem of what it is.
I also feel that interdiction is helping a lot, as well as
naloxone. This is a three-pronged approach: education
awareness, interdiction, and naloxone widely available.
Naloxone on college campuses and high schools, I think, is
really helping out the situation a little bit, but we need to
do a lot more.
Senator Schiff. Thank you. Ms. Norring?
Ms. Norring. I agree. The education and awareness piece is
huge, but we face roadblocks all the time with schools that
don't want us to come into their schools because they feel that
we may basically, in a sense, give kids the idea that it's okay
to go do these drugs. And it's so ridiculous. We've shown
``Dead on Arrival.'' I'm a former member of VOID--so we do
that, oftentime. We also show the ``Come Back Home'' film that
the Alexander Neville Foundation produced, which is told from
the youth preventative side of things. And I think when you
hear from the youth directly on this crisis, that is so
impactful.
We also pride ourselves on going out into the community,
doing community events, bringing the community together, doing
naloxone trainings, getting that information out there, really
reducing the stigma of this crisis, because I say
``poisoning''--while so many say overdose. You will never hear
me say that my son overdosed, because my son was poisoned. I
know that if my son knew that that pill was going to take his
life, he would have never taken it. Like Senator Klobuchar
said, all of my hopes and dreams for him and his future are
gone. But not only that, his dreams erased in the blink of an
eye.
So--and I mirror your sentiment. Our Government really
needs to step up and start taking the handle on this, because
we're just parents, out there. We're spending a lot of money
out of our pockets. Most of us don't qualify for public grants
or anything like that. Why don't we have the campaign? Kids are
dying. You would think that that would be a priority. And yet,
it's us out there doing the work. And we will do it, because
that means potentially a child's life is saved. Thank you.
Senator Schiff. Thank you both, again, for your testimony,
and to all the parents who are here representing their
children, I want to thank you for your advocacy. Really
important for us to see you and to hear you, and thank you for
your testimony. I yield back.
Senator Britt. Couldn't agree more. I'd like to enter into
the record a letter of support from nine organizations that
represent the medical community, led by the American Society of
Neurosurgeons. Their letter commends our bipartisan leadership
in addressing the fentanyl epidemic and notes that the
temporary schedule classification is not sustainable. They note
that, quote, ``continually revisiting its classification
creates confusion about the dangers of these substances and
hampers efforts to address the crisis comprehensively,'' end
quote. I ask unanimous consent that the entirety of their
letter be entered into the record. Thank you.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Senator Britt. Thank you. Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks to all of
the witnesses for being here. Ms. Norring and Mr. Puerta, I
want to particularly thank you and thank other parents who I
think are in the room today. You've highlighted the true crisis
that we're facing. You know, in my home State of Missouri, in
2022 alone, child fatalities from fentanyl doubled, just in
2022. Deaths for children under the age of 5 increased by more
than 500 percent in my State, and fentanyl is our leading cause
of death now in the State of Missouri. So, the fates that your
families have endured are being replicated all over my State,
as well, and that's really a wake-up call, I think, for this
body to do something.
And we absolutely do need to seal the Border against those
who would traffic illicit drugs into this country, and we need
to prosecute those who are doing it. But I want to zero in on
something that you both talked about, you in particular, Ms.
Norring, where your own children or your child was exposed to
these illegal drugs, namely Snapchat and social media
platforms. You said a second ago that you have repeatedly
reported drug dealers and other illicit posts on social media
platforms, using the platforms' own reporting rules, and I
think what you said is, is that most of the time--most of the
time, the vast majority of the time, the answer you get back
is, well, this is a valid account or they otherwise can't do
anything. Did I hear that correctly, Ms. Norring?
Ms. Norring. That is correct, Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. So, here you're trying to follow the rules
that these companies have set up. They say, oh, well, we'll
deal with the problem if you just report it. You and other
parents--and I see parents behind you who are nodding--you're
out there reporting, reporting, reporting. They're not doing
anything. And I noticed that you also--I've read your written
testimony. You had a meeting with Snapchat executives--I think
you were there for that, too, Mr. Puerta--in the spring of
2021.
Mr. Puerta. That's correct.
Senator Hawley. And they told you--just walk us through
that, Ms. Norring, if you would. You reported to them what was
going on, on their own platform, and they told you what,
exactly?
Ms. Norring. The first three things out of their mouth was,
we had no idea this was happening on our platform; you can't
sue us, because we're protected under Section 230; and as
parents you should've been monitoring your children better. My
son was 19 when he died. Number one, how do you monitor an
adult? Number two, how do you monitor a child on an app in
which the whole allure to these kids is the fact that the
messages disappear? And that was something that I brought up to
their attention, and they really had no response. They don't
care.
Senator Hawley. They don't care, and I think it's
interesting they pointed out to you that you can't sue them.
What do you think one of the reasons is that they don't really
change? I mean, here you are--you're meeting with them. You're
reporting these incidents. You're reporting this illicit
activity on their platform. They're not doing anything about
it. I mean, do you have a guess as to why they don't really
ever change their behavior?
Ms. Norring. There's no incentive to. And even with the in-
app reporting feature, that was something that they pointed out
to us, like we should've known that this existed. We had no
idea that existed, but I can tell you in the weeks and the
months and the years after my son passed, multiple teens in our
town reported the dealers that allegedly harmed my son, and all
that would happen is, they would take down the account.
These dealers would go and get a new burner phone, set up a
new account. Snapchat told us they had IP blockers and Wi-Fi
blockers to recognize the devices. These dealers are buying
burner phones. They're going to--I don't know--your coffee
shop, your school. They're going to the library and setting up
a new account. Our dealers in the community laughed at
Snapchat. They're like, ha ha, they tried to bamboozle us.
We're back, baby. Seriously.
Senator Hawley. I want to just highlight what you just
said, because I want everybody who's watching this and I want
every Member of this Committee and every Member of the Senate
to understand what you just said, which is that the social
media platforms don't change because they don't have any
incentive. Which is a very polite way of saying there's no
hammer on these people. They do whatever they want to do
because they know nobody can effectively hold them accountable.
And they really let the mask slip when you two walked into
their offices and told them that they had participated in the
killing of your children--because that's what happened.
They made money off of it, effectively, because they're
making billions of dollars on their social media platforms.
They're killing our kids. They're exposing them to all kinds of
ungodly material, and they won't do anything about it because
we can't hold them accountable. And I just want to say to
Members of this body, that has got to change. It is time to
give parents the right to sue these platforms. No company in
America has the liability shield that these companies have.
They can do whatever they want to our kids, and we can't do
anything about it.
And I say that as the father of three young children. I'm
terrified of what my kids might find on social media, for the
reasons that you've given today. But as a parent, I can't do a
thing about it, if these companies decide to exploit my
children. And it is time for that to change. And we know how to
change it. The way to change it is, give the parents in this
country the right to get into court. Open the courthouse doors
and allow them to sue these companies.
[Hearing attendees applaud.]
Senator Hawley. It's time. And until this body takes that
action, I just have to say, almost nothing else we do is really
serious. You can try to fine them, they don't care. You can
change the rules on reporting, they'll evade it. You can slap
them on the wrist, they won't do anything. Until plaintiffs can
get into court, nothing will change. And so I will introduce
legislation this Congress to allow parents--to allow you to go
to court and sue these companies. And I call on every Member of
this Committee and every Member of this body to support this
effort to get justice for your children. Thank you for being
here today. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Britt. Senator Padilla.
Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chair. Colleagues, I so
much appreciate the opportunity to focus on this crisis today,
with one caveat. I think it's a little disappointing to
continue to stick to an inaccurate narrative that the fentanyl
crisis in America is primarily an immigration problem. The
fentanyl crisis in America is a health crisis. It is a public
safety crisis. And, as we've heard from testimonials today,
it's a life-and-death crisis.
But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of
fentanyl that is smuggled into the United States is brought in
through legal ports of entry, mind you, not between ports of
entry but through legal ports of entry, by primarily United
States citizens. Don't just take my word for it. Look at CBP
data. Now, I know it's been called into question earlier--the
accuracy of it. But even if it was off by half, we're looking
at half and half.
Now, don't mistake my words here--condoning that anybody
attempting to come into the United States unlawfully that
happens to be carrying fentanyl should be off the hook. I
disagree. We should clamp down on them. But if data is
important for driving policy decisions and informing strategic
actions, let's look at the facts. Eighty percent plus of the
fentanyl intercepted at the Border is being brought in through
ports of entry by United States citizens. So, again, folks
coming through unlawfully--I'm not saying ignore them, but
let's not ignore where the concentration of the problem is.
I won't ask the witnesses today what recommendations or
strategies that we should be implementing through the
Department of Justice, through the Department of Homeland
Security. I think we're going to have opportunities for other
DOJ officials in the coming days and weeks, to do that, and we
should. But I will suggest, colleagues, that the recent changes
by the administration at the Department of Justice that have
resulted in the shifting of critical resources--including from
the FBI, including from the DEA, including the ATF--towards
immigration enforcement, which, be clear, be honest with
ourselves and the public, is not exclusive to violent
criminals. It's everybody. Minor offenses, people who haven't
committed any offense other than--and as folks--well, if they
came illegally, then they're criminals. Horrible, horrible way
to think about it. It's doing a disservice to our efforts to
crack down on the fentanyl crisis and other illicit drugs that
are hurting and killing so many of our kids.
My first question. Dr. Farfan-Mendez, can you explain how
diverting law enforcement resources toward immigration
enforcement could actually undermine fentanyl investigations
and make it harder to disrupt trafficking networks?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. So, the U.S. has a mechanism called the
Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, and this task
force is made up of several agencies--Department of Justice,
Homeland Security, Department of Labor, the U.S. Postal
Service, and a number of others--the State Department is also
included there, putting together criminal investigations that
take down trafficking networks. It is a long process. It takes
time. It takes interagency coordination. In the best of cases,
it also takes international cooperation, including with Mexico.
And so when you distract those resources and allocate them
in another task--in this case, for instance, immigration
enforcement--effectively what you are doing is undermining
long-term efforts to try to precisely bring criminal groups to
justice. And so there is--in the world that we have, of limited
resources, when you take away from one area, you will
definitely impact another, and so there is definitely a concern
of weakening this Organized Crime Enforcement Task Force.
Senator Padilla. And it's okay if you don't know the answer
to the following question, but in case you do, I understand
that there's only one legal gun store in Mexico?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Correct. Mexico only has one legal gun
store.
Senator Padilla. Okay. So, for all of my colleagues who,
for years and years, have talked about clamping down on the
cartels, the criminal organizations that are arming themselves
with weapons trafficked from the United States, folks,
according to ATF data--again, I'm not sorry for relying on our
own data--up to 500,000 U.S.-sourced firearms are trafficked
into Mexico every year, with 70 percent of crime guns recovered
in Mexico tracing back to the United States. Dr. Farfan-Mendez,
Mexican President Sheinbaum has stated that President Trump
agreed to work on reducing the flow of guns into Mexico as part
of yesterday's deal to delay the tariffs for a month. What
concrete steps should the U.S. take to uphold that commitment?
Senator Britt. And ma'am, if you can keep your answer
short? We're out of time. Thank you so much.
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Absolutely. I hear this Committee when
you say that you want to save lives of American children, and
Americans in general. And what I say to you is, the fentanyl
market is not an isolated illicit market. It's very much linked
to the firearms trafficking market. And so in that conversation
that President Sheinbaum and President Trump had, I think for
the U.S. to seriously address fentanyl, the conversation also
has to be about how you prevent criminal groups to have the
firepower that make addressing supply on the Mexican side
incredibly difficult. As I say, these are shared tragedies both
for Mexico and the U.S. And so, if the crime is transnational,
shouldn't the solution also be transnational?
Senator Padilla. Very well said. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Senator Britt. Thank you. I do want to address, before we
move to our next Senator, the argument that U.S. citizens bring
the most fentanyl into the United States, not illegal
immigrants. It has been pointed to today some incomplete
seizure and arrest statistics that support that argument. So,
with the wide open border policies of the Biden-Harris
administration over the last 4 years, we do not know the full
scale of drugs smuggled into this Nation. The prosecution's
statistics only account for individuals that were actually
caught, prosecuted, and sentenced--not criminals who managed to
actually evade detection.
The Washington Post says that Federal officials estimate
that we're only catching about 5 to 10 percent of fentanyl that
is coming in from Mexico. So, do that math. If that's true,
then we are only catching--or we're not catching 90 to 95
percent of the fentanyl that is actually coming across our
Southern Border. We have to be honest about that. That should
alarm every single one of us, and it also shows why border
security is an important component to stopping the flow of
fentanyl.
Senator Kennedy.
Senator Kennedy. Dr. Farfan, the president of Mexico, until
2024, was President Lopez Obrador. Is that right? And he ran
for president, with respect to the cartels, on the slogan,
``Hugs, Not Bullets.'' Is that right?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Well, no, he did not run his campaign--
--
Senator Kennedy. Yes, he did.
Dr. Farfan-Mendez.--with that slogan.
Senator Kennedy. Yes, he did. Now, his handpicked successor
is President Steinbaum; is that correct?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Sheinbaum.
Senator Kennedy. Is that correct?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Claudia Sheinbaum.
Senator Kennedy. Right. Am I right?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Yes.
Senator Kennedy. Okay. I love the people of Mexico, and the
people of Mexico are good friends. But isn't a big part of the
problem that President Lopez Obrador, and now President Shein-
baum--thank you for correcting me, by the way--live in the
right front pocket of the Mexican drug cartels?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I disagree with that statement.
Senator Kennedy. I thought you might. You want more task
forces.
Dr. Westlake, this represents 400 grams of fentanyl--it'll
kill every person in Providence, Rhode Island. If you're a
dealer and you get caught with this, you get 10 years, minimum.
This represents 40 grams of fentanyl--would kill every
single man, woman, and child in Culpeper, Virginia. If you get
caught with this amount, as a dealer, you get a 5-year minimum
sentence. This is where it gets special.
This represents 10 grams of PCP. If you get caught with it,
as a dealer you get 5 years, minimum. Is fentanyl more
dangerous than PCP?
Mr. Westlake. Yes, absolutely, Senator. Fentanyl is
classified--can be classified as a lethal weapon. I did a chart
on it, and it actually----
Senator Kennedy. This is 5 grams of meth. That's what this
represents. If you're a dealer and you get caught with it, your
minimum sentence is 5 years.
Is fentanyl--you get caught with this much fentanyl, 5
year--or 10 years.
You get caught with this much fentanyl, 5 years.
Get caught with this much meth--you can hardly see it--you
get 5 years. Does that make any sense to you?
Mr. Westlake. No, sir.
Senator Kennedy. It's like cell-deep stupid. Isn't it? You
don't need a task force to see the illogic of that. I've got a
bill, it's called the Fairness in Fentanyl Sentencing, I've
reintroduced.
[Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
record.]
Senator Kennedy. This bill will lower the 5-year mandatory
minimum for 40 grams of fentanyl to 2 grams of fentanyl. It'll
lower the 10-year mandatory minimum from 400 grams of fentanyl
to 20 grams of fentanyl. This bill won't punish addicts. It'll
help. It's not going to help until President Lopez Obrador and
President Scheinbaum get out of the pockets of the drug
cartels. But it's a start. This bill will punish dealers. Thank
you, Madam Chairman.
[Hearing attendees applaud.]
Senator Britt. Senator Whitehouse.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome, to all
the witnesses. We have real problems in this country with
opioid addiction. I was the lead Democrat author of the
Comprehensive Addiction and Recovery Act, which both changed
the nature of the response to this with a lot more emphasis on
recovery and prevention and also opened up significant funding
that has flowed through to States to help the groups that are
helping people through their addiction and through their
recovery.
At this point, as best I can tell, the Trump funding freeze
is blocking dollars that would otherwise be flowing to
treatment and recovery groups around the country. In some
cases, it's not so much that they are being told no, it's that
they can't get a straight answer. And the confusion could well
be just a deliberate fog to obscure the freeze. The lawsuits
that are proceeding will help clarify that. But in the
meantime, I think it's notable, when we're dealing here with
this issue, to understand that the Trump administration has
unilaterally frozen funds that flow through to this problem.
Our community health centers in Rhode Island are seeing
funds similarly either blocked or fogged so that they can't get
an answer that the funds are cleared. And it's through
community health centers that a lot of people get their
treatment, as they deal with addiction and recovery issues. So,
I hope that we can get this freeze issue resolved, now that two
courts have found that it is illegal. In the same way that the
Trump administration doesn't seem to respect the power of the
purse in Congress, it is not clear that they respect the power
of the courts to decide what the law is. So, we will have to
see. But we are clearly outside of constitutional bounds at
this point, and people who count on addiction and recovery
services are in the target hairs of this.
We agreed, I think, as a Committee--and we've done some
pretty good work together as a Committee, Republicans and
Democrats alike--to try to put pressure on drug sales that come
via the internet and through social media. So, it's disturbing
to me that President Trump pardoned an individual who ran a
drug-selling dark website. He also had some murder-for-hire
accusations, just to add a little bit of color to what a decent
person he was.
I think the place where we can make the most progress, as
Ranking Member Durbin mentioned earlier, is with Section 230. I
applaud the litigation that is going forward. I applaud the
lawyers who've been able to negotiate the various hurdles that
Congress has erected to the American system of justice having
its role in dealing with these deaths and with these tragedies.
I think there's bipartisan support for repealing Section 230. I
am on for that, and I think the sooner we do that, the better
we are.
It is simply wrong for these enormously powerful social
media entities to have rights to do harm to Americans without
accountability that no other entity shares. So, they've blown
any excuse to maintain that privileged position, with their
behavior, in my view. So, let's go for 230. And with respect to
enforcement, reassigning FBI, DOJ, and DEA agents off this task
I don't think is a good idea. We'll find out more about how
many were reassigned. Cutting FinCEN dollars, I think, is a big
mistake.
And I'll close with a question to Dr. Farfan. It's been my
experience as a prosecutor for many years that we put a lot of
attention into interdicting distribution networks for drugs. By
comparison, we put a very small effort into interdicting the
financial return of that money, the hiding of that money in
international accounts and international dark money banking and
covert other systems. What more should we be doing to get after
the financing of these cartels? And is the gun traffic back to
them part of the payment to them for the drugs that we try to
interdict coming in?
Senator Britt. And we are out of time, so if you can keep
your response brief. Thank you.
Senator Whitehouse. Well, customarily, as long as the
question is asked before the clock runs out, the witness gets
to answer it.
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Thank you. So, in terms of the illicit
flows, certainly there's--because money laundering takes place
across jurisdictions, it requires also cooperation. So, the
best cases that we have seen between, for instance, Mexico and
the United States of this money laundering operations had to do
with working together between the two governments. Now, I
understand this is not easily done, but these are the most
effective cases of money laundering. Certainly, firearms
trafficking is part of that.
There's a clear notion that drugs normally come from the
south, and firearms and money flow from the United States to
Mexico. And again, there's a linkage between these criminal
markets. And if we want to save lives by tackling the fentanyl
supply, then there should also be paying attention to money and
firearms.
Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate your
courtesy.
Senator Britt. With regards to social media, I appreciate
the work that's been done on this Committee--and certainly
Senator Blumenthal and Senator Blackburn and the work that they
have done in a bipartisan way to address this. As a mom of a
14- and a 15-year-old who knows that Snapchat is used to tell
people which color uniform they're supposed to wear that day,
or they use it to figure out where friends are going to meet,
you'd think that this can happen--to your point, too--anyone,
anywhere. And I am so grateful for you both using your voice to
speak up and speak directly into this issue. So, thank you.
I do want to address complaints about the brief pause on
grant funding. It's important to know that this was temporary.
It was a temporary pause, and to the extent permitted by law.
Law enforcement grants aren't handed out during this time of
year. Our constituent needs will continue to be taken care of
while President Trump delivers on the job voters elected him to
do. Voters asked him to grow our economy, protect our
communities, and ensure that taxpayer dollars are used wisely.
Examining spending is part of that. President Trump has always
backed the Blue, just like Chairman Grassley, and just like
myself.
Additionally, one more thing before we move on. I'd like to
enter into the record a letter of support from 11 law
enforcement organizations for HALT Fentanyl, including the
National Narcotic Officers' Association, which is in town for
its annual conference.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Senator Britt. I am pleased that we have several of their
members here today as guests of Chairman Grassley. These
organizations represent constituents from each of our States
and a significant portion of our Nation's Federal, State, and
local law enforcement communities. As their letter says, for
the sake of public safety, we must pass HALT Fentanyl Act.
Senator Blackburn.
Senator Blackburn. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman. Mr.
Puerta, I am so sorry for your loss. I noted that you said your
son had an ADHD diagnosis. And I was looking at figures last
week from our TennCare, which is our Medicaid program in
Tennessee, and there are over 400,000 children in our State of
7 million people that have an ADHD diagnosis. I know that we
have so many times seen kids that, to deal with the pain, would
try to get something, and my heart breaks for you. And I hope
we take a deeper dive and that, if confirmed, that Robert F.
Kennedy will take a deeper dive into how we medicate children
and work on these issues. And thank you for the good work that
you are doing.
Ms. Norring, thank you for your support of KOSA. I
appreciate that, and we share your heartbreak. I stepped out of
Committee to go speak to a group of children that are here for
Wired Human and are working on this issue. And the work that
you and other parents have done has encouraged these children
to stand up and be a resource to their peers and to help them
through this issue. So, I thank you for that good work that you
are doing.
Sheriff Barnes, I want to talk with you about HIDTA. I know
that, in 2022, we had 134 criminal organizations that were
dismantled by HIDTA. We had over 8,700 kilograms of drugs that
were removed nationally. And in Tennessee, our TBI director,
Director Rausch--every time he sees me, he says, we have to
reauthorize HIDTA, because it is effective. And the Appalachia
HIDTA Task Force operating in Tennessee was responsible for
moving $51 million street value of drugs off the market. So,
talk for a minute about why it is crucial that HIDTA be
reauthorized for law enforcement officers like you.
Sheriff Barnes. Thank you, Senator Blackburn, and thank you
for the reauthorization of HIDTA. It's very important. And
Director Rausch is a good friend. It's----
Senator Blackburn. He's a good man.
Sheriff Barnes. I will summarize it this way. At this time
in our Nation's war history--the worst time of our narcotics
trafficking and deaths, this is not the time to disenfranchise
or divest from the HIDTA program. HIDTA programs are national.
They rely on local law enforcement task forces and
contributions. The HIDTA funding doesn't really fully fund the
HIDTA programs. It offsets those contributions from locals. And
right now with our municipal agencies having hiring problems,
they're stepping away from the HIDTA programs. Keeping them
staffed is very difficult. So, that reauthorization's very
critical, to keep the glue together to keep the HIDTA programs
running.
Senator Blackburn. I have talked to--and I want to stay
with you, Sheriff--talked to some of our law enforcement
agencies, and they have talked about sanctuary city policies.
And I know that Senator Lee brought this up with you. But it
seems that in a sanctuary city, to go after these traffickers,
that it is more difficult, that sometimes you have to find
workarounds. And I would love for you to talk for just a minute
about what we can do that would help you all, as you try to
deal with these sanctuary cities, to get these drugs off the
streets.
Sheriff Barnes. Senator, it's even worse for me in
California because of Senate Bill 54, passed about 6 years ago,
that prohibits my dialogue with Federal partners on immigration
issues. I have the ability to turn over high-level offenders
only to ICE. They don't always pick them up, which requires me
to release them back in the communities, in which they
reoffend, oftentimes with the communities that they preyed
upon.
I'm a supporter of abolishing that SB 54 movement. We have
to be able to cooperate with our Federal partners. And I think
if we hold these criminals accountable--this isn't about the
general public. Those who are entrusted to my care, in my jail,
in the safest environment, to transfer them over to ICE's
custody will keep our community safe, especially the immigrant
communities, from them returning to prey upon them.
Senator Blackburn. And, you know, so many people will say,
when they get back out, you know, when they evade law
enforcement in these sanctuary cities, that they really return
even more committed to abuse people in those communities where
they have been trafficking those drugs-- to pick up the pace of
selling the drugs. And I look at these sanctuary city policies,
and I think how difficult it makes your job, when you're trying
to keep our communities safe. And we thank you for the work
that you're doing. We thank each of you for being here today.
Senator Blumenthal and I are going to continue to push KOSA, to
get, as you said, Ms. Norring, that foundational law that will
allow--allow us to hold social media to account. Thank you all.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Britt. Thank you. Senator Schmitt.
Senator Schmitt. Madam Chair, two hearings, and you're
chairing the Committee. This is--wow, it's amazing.
Senator Britt. Thank you.
Senator Schmitt. Thank you for recognizing me.
First of all, as a parent of three young children--or, no,
they're not so young, now, teenage girls, and my son, Stephen,
who's 20--thank you for being here and sharing your stories. I
can't imagine how difficult it is to do this, and--but it is
incredibly effective, I think, when you do show up and you
share those stories. It humanizes something and an issue that
can very often become about different things other than the
actual human impact.
And, you know, from my perspective, the job I had before
this, I was an attorney general in the State of Missouri and
actually served with Senator Moody, and we went down to the
Border and learned a lot about the activity and how the
cartels--and it's not just the drugs. And there are, obviously,
the drugs. But the value of the human trafficking alone, and
this was a few years ago, was $100 million a week. A week. That
is not--we're not even talking about the value of the drugs
that they're moving and the zones of influence that they have
into the interior of the United States.
This is a serious crisis, and obviously it's killing, you
know, too many of our young men and women in this country and
communities all across the country. Every--and, you know, it
gets overused now, but every State truly is a border State when
it comes to this. And, sort of, in that vein, about the
cartels, I do want to ask you, Doctor, in your view, is Mexico
doing enough from a law enforcement perspective, as it relates
to the cartels?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think both countries need to do more--
--
Senator Schmitt. No, I--yes, Mexico. I'm asking about
Mexico. Listen, there's a lot we need to do, but I want to ask
specifically--I mean, part of the reason you're here is to
speak to that relationship between the U.S. and Mexico, but
from your view, are they doing enough?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think there is definitely more that
can be done by Mexico.
Senator Schmitt. And what would that be?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think it's working closer with U.S.
counterparts. I think it is also having this diagnosis of this
connection between these criminal markets, arms trafficking,
drug trafficking, to really benefit communities on both sides
of the Border.
Senator Schmitt. Do you feel like--and there's been
testimony. This isn't just, you know, in some high-profile
cases, including in the El Chapo case, there's been testimony
from witnesses who were once members of the cartels that there
is pretty widespread corruption at high levels of the Mexican
government that are preventing them from actually doing what
they should do to crack down on the cartels. Do you share those
concerns?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I would not necessarily align myself
with the testimony of potentially a criminal witness from a
case like that. I understand there are concerns about
corruption within Mexico, and I understand there's questions
about needing to address that. Having said that, I think
general accusations about corruption of the entire government,
those are not necessarily productive for good U.S.-Mexico
engagements----
Senator Schmitt. Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that
there are people--and I get the complexities of some testimony,
but it's not just a one-off example. And I think the concern I
have is that there's just very little being spent, quite
honestly, on law enforcement, writ large, in Mexico. And I just
don't know that this has been given the attention, over the
last, at least, 4 years, that it should. And hopefully that
dynamic is changing. I do think the cooperation between the
U.S. and Mexico is really important on this. There's no doubt
about that.
But I want to, I guess, sort of turn my attention, Sheriff,
to you, because--with my limited time. You do have sort of one
arm tied behind your back, given, I guess, the laws in the
State of California, the sanctuary status, which isn't--I don't
pretend to understand it at all. It's a mess.
But when I was AG in Missouri, we had some pretty unique
partnerships where we would deputize some people in our office
to work in the U.S. attorney's office, to go after some violent
crime that maybe at a local level they weren't--they were
choosing not to pursue. Is that kind of where, if you've sort
of got your arm tied behind your back, maybe that's a way
forward--is you actually have to have more Federal agents
working with the U.S. attorneys to go after these folks,
because at a local level that's harder to do?
Sheriff Barnes. So, there's two parts to that question.
Under California law, I'm prohibited from cooperating with ICE
in any manner, including housing of individuals within my
jails. I cannot hold ICE detainees in my jails. Regarding
Federal task force or designating task force officers or those
who are attorneys to prosecute on behalf of the U.S. attorney's
office--that is being done in California, but not specific to
immigration, specific to the issues of fentanyl directly.
Senator Schmitt. Okay. All right. Well, thank you. And
again, to the witnesses, thank you for being here today. Thank
you.
Senator Britt. Thank you. Before we move on, I'd like to
enter into the record a letter of support from CADCA, the
premier prevention association representing over 7,000
coalition members across the country, in strong support of the
HALT Fentanyl.
[The information appears as a submission for the record.]
Senator Britt. CADCA coalitions support millions of high
school and middle school students across this Nation and have
proven effective in reducing youth substance abuse and use. We
thank them for their support of HALT Fentanyl. Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you
for coming and testifying, and, of course, my sympathies to Mr.
Puerta and Ms. Norring. Obviously, this is a complicated
question in the sense that we have disagreements on who is
bringing in fentanyl--into our country. But we all know that it
is creating, basically, havoc. And I particularly was
interested in noting how we can prevent young people from
getting access to fentanyl. At the same time--and their
analogues.
At the same time, we need a Justice Department that is
stable. Right now, there is chaos as this administration tries
to eliminate anybody who can stand up to them. And, in
addition, when they want the names of everyone who had anything
to do with the January 6 investigations and prosecutions, we
are talking about potentially thousands of FBI agents, so you
can imagine the chaos that is going on in that Department.
For Mr. Puerta, I know you mentioned the ``Dead on
Arrival'' as a documentary that is shown. I mean, what age do
you think that the children should be when they are alerted to,
for example, not buying anything on the internet? And this goes
for Ms. Norring, too, in terms of prevention. What----
Mr. Puerta. They----
Senator Hirono [continuing]. Is an age? And then----
Mr. Puerta. Thank you for the question.
Senator Hirono [continuing]. Does a documentary like the
one you mentioned--does it really impact the young people? If
not, what does, in terms of education?
Mr. Puerta. ``Dead on Arrival,'' again, is a 22-minute
documentary that we use in junior high schools and high schools
across the Nation. We just started, also, with fifth and sixth
graders, as well. We started that in Lake County, California,
where Mr. Filson, who's behind me here, went up there and saw
more than 5,000 students. Ms. Hirono, I have a stack of letters
from high school students, junior high school students,
elementary school students who have seen this documentary, that
had absolutely no idea of the impending danger and had no idea
that buying illicit fentanyl was as easy as ordering a pizza--
--
Senator Hirono. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Puerta [continuing]. Through Snapchat. That's how easy
it is.
Senator Hirono. And the danger of this drug is, though,
they can die on first use.
Mr. Puerta. According to the New England Journal of
Medicine, 22 children per week died in the year 2022, between
the ages--nonaddicted children between the ages of 14 and 18
years of age, due--mostly driven by illicit fentanyl pills.
Twenty-two a week.
Senator Hirono. So easy to obtain on the internet, and
that's why there are a number of us on this Committee who have
raised the issue of very dramatically limiting the Section 230
immunity for the social platforms, because of what parents,
particularly, have to go through just to hold these entities
accountable. It shouldn't be that way. And so there are a
number of us who are on that page.
Ms. Norring, I believe you mentioned that there are some
schools that do not want to provide this kind of education for
fear of something. I mean, could you go over a little bit more
why that is? And also, for both of you, what can we do at the
Federal level to really support the kind of prevention efforts
that you both, I believe, are engaged in?
Ms. Norring. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I feel
that this education needs to be taught as early as elementary
school.
Senator Hirono. Elementary.
Ms. Norring. I believe, you know, just from my own
experience back home and studies done back home and surveys
done back home with our students, 12-year-olds are the start of
where they're beginning with the vapes and the THC vapes. So,
the earlier we can reach them, definitely the better. Back
home, the schools that--it's just--it's multiple roadblocks.
They don't want it in their schools; there's not enough time in
the school years; there's a stigma that it could create more
kids going out there and being exposed to these. We've seen a
decline in the D.A.R.E. programs, for that reason.
Senator Hirono. Short of requiring this kind of education
to be available, what can we do at the Federal level to promote
and to support your efforts?
Ms. Norring. Well, I know that was a big thing with
families like mine, pushing to get our schools to carry
naloxone. And as part of our legalizing marijuana bill, in the
year 2025, schools now have to require--they are required now
to provide fentanyl poisoning education. It's kind of--and with
the legalization of that, it's kind of hypocritical, you know,
to have that education piece tucked into that bill, in my
opinion, because now we're saying it's okay to do one drug, but
these drugs--stay away from these ones.
Mr. Puerta. Most of these nonprofits are all made up of
bereaved families that would come together and--because they
failed--like, the Government wasn't doing enough, and we felt
that we just couldn't sit idly by and watch these children die
on a daily basis. So, I think one of the things that could
really be helpful from the Federal Government is granting--
giving us grants----
Senator Hirono. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Puerta [continuing]. To community organizations like
ourselves, because we don't really fall into a certain category
where we can get grants to do this. We're self-funded,
actually, and it's really difficult to do that, especially when
we're traveling across the Nation and doing the work that we
do.
But we don't charge any money for what we do. We charge
zero dollars to go to a school. We take time out of our days,
out of our weeks. And like I said, Mr. Filson was up in Lake
County, California, up there for a full week, educating 5,000
students on the dangers of illicit fentanyl. But community
grants for our specific, I guess, niche, for a lack of better
words, would be really great.
Senator Hirono. I think that is something that we can do,
provided that we had an administration that isn't going to put
a blanket hold on all grants to entities such as yours. Thank
you very much for your testimony and your suggestion.
Senator Britt. Thank you. As been discussed here today, in
2024, CBP seized approximately 22,000 pounds of fentanyl at
U.S. ports of entry on our Southern Border and our Northern
Border, as well as coastal and interior ports. That's nearly
1.1 billion lethal doses. That averages out to approximately 3
doses for every person residing in the United States. And
perhaps of even greater concern, it's been estimated, as I
mentioned earlier, that only 5 to 10 percent of the fentanyl
crossing the Border is actually being interdicted.
The flow of drugs across our borders is ravaging
communities around our country, including in my home State of
Alabama. In 2023, the Annual Report of the Alabama Opioid
Overdose and Addiction Council discussed the alarming increase
in fentanyl-related overdose deaths and poisonings in Alabama
between 2018 and 2022. In 2022, Alabama's SBI seized a total of
8,300 grams of fentanyl, which is equivalent to 8.3 million
lethal doses--enough to kill everyone in the State of Alabama
plus 3 million more. In FY 2024, that number was up to 12,400
grams of fentanyl.
So, let's be clear. These numbers increasing actually
represent more devastated families and more deaths. I have sat
across from far too many parents--in my short time in the
United States Senate--that are grieving, just as you two are.
And I just want to say, again, thank you for sharing your
story. I'm going to have our team clip your testimony, put it
together, so that we can help begin that PSA.
You are changing lives. You're here today not only to see
change in law but to make sure that we save lives and that no
one else has to go through what you did. So, thank you for
sharing your story, and I can promise you with every ounce of
me, we're going to do everything possible to elevate it, to ask
parents to watch your testimony today, to ask parents to listen
to what you're saying so that they do not have to go through
the unthinkable that you have. And we are just so grateful for
your willingness to be here.
What I'd like to know, Sheriff Barnes--you have testified
regarding this issue before. But can you tell us, from your
perspective of a local law enforcement officer, why you think
the Federal Government needs a more effective strategy in place
than we've seen over the last 4 years, at our Southern Border
in particular? And what elements of the strategy should look
like? And how Congress can work with the President to actually
implement these types of things, moving forward?
Sheriff Barnes. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I have testified
to this before. And I think if you look just from post-9/11,
where we are today, the threat horizon's much broader than it
was back 24 years ago, and it's encompassing all these other
categorical crimes: cyber, fentanyl, human trafficking. They're
all on the same platform.
So, specific to fentanyl, we have to work laterally and
vertically. And that means with our vertical, with our Federal
partners, our State partners, and our local partners; laterally
with all the different efforts being put forth on the
trafficking entities that are disparately addressing this
issue, but we're not synergizing those efforts very well. I
believe that we have a problem with communications.
Senator Britt. Okay.
Sheriff Barnes. If we're going to do a great offense, we
have to communicate with our Federal partners to the Border,
find where their efforts are, how we can pivot around those to
get the end around from the cartels, and, most importantly
right now, be aware of probably the maritime issues we'll
undoubtedly face going forward. Because of the closure at the
Border, they will pivot around on the waterways.
Senator Britt. Thank you. Dr. Westlake, first I want to
thank you for the incredible work that you've done as a medical
professional and as an advocate working to protect Americans
from the dangers of illicit drugs, like fentanyl. In my view,
we need to be as bold as possible when it comes to taking steps
to protecting American children and families from the scourge
of fentanyl. That's one of the reasons I am a Co-Sponsor of the
HALT Fentanyl Act. Given your work on the issue, can you
comment on the impact that FRS class scheduling has had on the
enforcement landscape over the last several years and if there
are any myths about class scheduling that you would like to
dispel?
Mr. Westlake. Thanks for the question, Senator Britt. Yes,
so the myths that were there were initially that there would be
people that were incarcerated from it, unduly incarcerated.
It's already proven, through the DEA report and since then,
that people aren't being incarcerated for it, for the same
reason that people aren't dying from it--is because it doesn't
exist. And that's what it does. This is--I don't envy the job
that you have up here on the dais of addressing, you know, one
of the things you address is the illicit fentanyl scourge. But
one thing that's the lowest hanging fruit you can address is
just permanently scheduling fentanyl-related substances.
There's, you know, there's no impact on criminal justice
that's negative. It saves people's lives. It's a proven
strategy. It's a win. It's bipartisan, 70 votes in the House,
last session--probably more this session. So, I encourage that
to happen.
Senator Britt. Thank you. And thank you all for your time
today. I am going to recognize Senator Moody, and also--this is
the fastest rise to the top ever--you will be chairing this
Committee as I go to vote.
Senator Moody [presiding]. And it is appropriate, because
this has been one of my priorities as attorney general, and I
am honored to be here today among all of you. If you are a
family member who has lost a loved one or a law enforcement
official who has stood by that family and worked with someone
who has lost a loved one, will you stand up?
[Some of the hearing attendees stand.]
Senator Moody. I just wanted this hearing to reflect the
power of Americans coming together under such tragic loss, to
get something done. Thank you so much. This was one of----
[Hearing attendees applaud.]
Senator Moody. Thank you, Katie Britt. This was one of my
priorities as attorney general, but not because I was the
attorney general. It was because I worked alongside so many
people who had lost loved ones, law enforcement. I am a mother
of a teenager. I am the wife of a law enforcement officer. This
is the number one killer of working- and fighting-age
Americans. Period.
So we have a lot to deal with, a lot on our plates, as
leaders in this Nation. This is the number one killer of
working- and fighting-age Americans right now. It has been. And
if I sound upset about the fact that we have not moved faster
on this, that is justified. I want to commend Chairman
Grassley, who called this hearing. The last 4 years, this
Committee has not held one hearing on fentanyl. And again, I
will repeat, this is the leading killer of working- and
fighting-age Americans. And whether you are a lab in China,
whether you are a cartel in Mexico, whether you are an
organization that is sitting by while your company or your
platform is being used to facilitate the trafficking of
fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances, this is happening on
purpose.
This is intentional. No one can say that it is not. Because
things can be done, like, I don't know, start with a hearing to
talk about fentanyl. Bring family members that have lost loved
ones, law enforcement that is working on the front lines. Thank
you for taking the time to be here. I'm glad this is one of my
first hearings. So, I want to thank Chairman Grassley for doing
this, because the last 4 years, we should've had a hearing on
this in this Committee, and we have not. I'm the newest Member
here. I sit at a kids' table, if you can see. I'm not even
attached to the real bench.
[Laughter.]
Senator Moody. But we're going to talk about it, moving
forward. I can assure you that. I just spoke with Joni Ernst.
She said when she got here, she pledged to be a squealer on
budget issues. I'm going to be a squealer on the loss of life.
Because this weakens us as a Nation. Weakens us. And I know all
of you know that. I also want to thank a great President who
has done a lot in the first 2 weeks in office.
[Hearing attendees applaud.]
Senator Moody. You know, in the last 4 years, I said
repeatedly, as AG, we need to declare the cartels as foreign
terrorist organizations. He got that done. I said, we need to
do that so we can send military to the Border to secure it. He
got that done. Oh, and by the way, when I pointed out, as Ms.--
I should say Dr. Farfan said, transnational problems require
transnational solutions--when I pointed out that the Mexican
president at the time said, ``Fentanyl's not our problem. I'm a
Mexico-first president. Fentanyl's an American problem''--soon
thereafter, our Commander-in-Chief said that Mexico was a great
partner.
I am so glad that we have a President now that, within the
first 2 weeks, leveraged terrorists, that now Mexico and Canada
have both pledged resources and bodies to help shut those
borders and stop the flow of fentanyl. That's how you get stuff
done. It can happen, if you have people committed to it.
Transnational problems do require transnational effort, and I'm
glad we have a Commander-in-Chief holding feet to the fire and
getting it done.
There's been a 350 percent increase in fentanyl deaths
among our teens in the last 3 years, 4 years. I want to just
say, as a mother, I could barely hold it together when I was
listening to your testimony. I have a teenager right now.
I cannot imagine the indescribable, overwhelming, traumatic
pain that you have suffered. But I want to thank you for being
here, for sharing your stories--most importantly, for sharing
your children's stories, so that we could not only honor Daniel
and Devin, remember them, but bring meaning to what you have
gone through, so that other parents--I want to say I and you
and other parents right now of teenagers--we're about the first
generation of parents having to deal with this mess. We're
learning as we go. You are on the front lines in this fight,
helping us, leading the way, shining the light. We've got your
back, but we need you showing us where to go, and I want to
thank you for that.
I want to start with you, Ms. Norring. What platform did
your son obtain a counterfeit pill that contained a lethal dose
of fentanyl?
Ms. Norring. Snapchat.
Senator Moody. And I'd like to move to you, Mr. Puerta.
What platform did your son find a counterfeit pill that
contained a lethal dose of fentanyl?
Mr. Puerta. Snapchat.
Senator Moody. Snapchat has become a vast online drug
market. There is no doubt that it facilitates drug sales to
vulnerable children, many who think they're buying Xanax or
Percocet or Adderall, when in reality it is a pill that has a
lethal dose of fentanyl. Seven out of ten counterfeit pills now
have a lethal dose of fentanyl. Many of these one-pills can
kill four adults. That is what is out there lurking for our
children. The National Crime Prevention Council estimates 80
percent of teen and young adult fentanyl poisoning deaths can
be traced to social media.
And I know we're talking about Snapchat because that is
what brought tragedy upon your lives. But there are other
social media platforms where children, vulnerable populations,
are obtaining access to drugs. Teens can now get drugs so
easily, the cartels think of these social media platforms as
their Uber Eats, for quick delivery right into the hands of our
children. I agree with you, Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring. The
bedroom is where we always thought our children could go
upstairs, shut their door, and they would be safe. And that is
no longer the case, which presents challenges to parents like
we have never seen before.
The DEA has warned Congress that cartels are now targeting
young Americans through platforms fueling the fentanyl
epidemic. Every week, the equivalent of a high school
classroom's worth of students dies from fentanyl overdose
deaths. This is an incredible statistic. If we saw this with
any other product, there would be Federal law shutting down
these products, to make them safe before they could go back on
market.
And we saw this time and time again in the automobile
industry, when we started losing people to faulty automobiles.
There was a stop sale order. They had to become safe before
they could be sold again. Why can't something similar be
applied to social media platforms, especially when the death
toll is so egregious? I mean, you can look at the deaths from
some of these automobiles, and that was over years. The Pinto
was 89 deaths, or 180 deaths. The too-fast Toyota was 89
deaths. Oh, what did I say? Pinto, 180 deaths. Ford Broncos,
823 deaths.
We lose way more than that, just in kids overdosing from
fentanyl, every single year. We have got to get going. We have
got to get stuff done. And so I would just say this. This is
what happens when you're the junior Senator and you're last. If
you could tell us, Congress, after we pass the HALT Fentanyl
Act, which deals with the--changing the chemical compound to
get around the laws, right--after that, what is the most
important thing we can do to stop the death toll on our
children here in the United States?
Ms. Norring. I would say, Senator, passing the Kids Online
Safety Act, the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act. The social
media reform really needs to take the front line. Section 230
reform needs to be done, because you cannot continue having
these platforms have that kind of power over the parents and be
allowed to kill our children, in a sense.
Senator Moody. Mr. Puerta?
Mr. Puerta. Well, there's a lot that we can do. Definitely
have to schedule the fentanyl and all of its analogues, illicit
fentanyl, into the Schedule I drug. I would also say, though,
that we have to target the supply chain. We have to strengthen
border security. We have to crack down on the chemical supply.
We have to destroy the cartel infrastructure. We have to
increase intelligence sharing between both countries, support
Mexico security forces, expand sanctions and designations.
We have to cut off their finances. TD Bank was just fined
$4 billion because they were caught laundering all of this
money from the cartels. Why is nothing happening to the
American banks, here in this country, who's laundering the
money? There's so much that we can do. I, as a parent,
shouldn't have all this information. I'm just a small business
owner from Santa Clarita, California. Why do I have all this
information? Because I had to study this. Because I don't want
more kids to die.
We have to go after these bank--we have to go after the
launderers. We have to go after--to target corrupt officials on
both sides of the aisle--not on the aisle but in Mexico and
here in the United States. We have to seize assets. We have to
also reduce the demand for drugs here in the United States.
There're a lot of people who are addicted to drugs here in the
United States, and we have nothing for them. Nothing. We have
Medi-Cal, maybe, that gives them 30-day rehabilitation, and
then you're out on your own. We've got to get them help, as
well.
We have to expand addiction treatment and recovery. We have
to increase penalties for distributors. We have to hold Mexico
accountable--pressure the Mexican government to do more,
obviously. We have to leverage trade and diplomatic tools.
Military intervention is a last resort. Mr. Trump, Donald
Trump, our President, just designated them as a--all criminal
cartels as FTOs, as a foreign terrorist organization. I think
that's wonderful. I think that's needed. But we have the same
problem here in the United States, as well. So, I think that it
has to be bilateral, it has to be bipartisan, and there's a lot
that needs to be done. If not, more kids are going to die. But
definitely the first and most important aspect of this is
getting this scheduled as a Schedule I. We have to do it,
because if not, more kids are going to continue dying.
Senator Moody. Thank you for being here.
Mr. Puerta. Thank you.
Senator Moody. Thank you for your advising us, and Devin
and Daniel certainly will be remembered in this Committee, and
you've made sure of that. Thank you so much. At this time, I
get the honor of recognizing Senator Tillis.
Senator Tillis. Well, what a rise. You're already Chair.
Senator Moody. So they tell me.
Senator Tillis. I think that what we just heard is really
the mood of Congress, in general. Ms. Farfan--first, to the--
I've spoken with too many families who are suffering through
what you've suffered through. We have to change things.
Ms. Farfan, I was here for the opening testimony, and you
wanted to focus on the southern migration of weapons. I believe
that's a serious concern. But you said something that concerned
me, and it had to do with the will of the Mexican government.
See, and I want you to--first, I should say, I do believe that
we have to hold the social media platforms accountable. But
make no mistake about it, these thugs that run the cartels will
find another way to get this poison here. If we don't dampen--
if we don't do things that reduce the demand and if we don't
disrupt the supply, it'll just be a different way for the
snakes to get this poison into our country. So, we need to be
smart and not high-five if we do something with 230 that gets
it off social media platforms. These disgusting murderers and
poisoners will find a way. So, we have to look at this like a
multivariable equation and maybe come up with some solutions.
But, see, I want your perspective on this. I feel like the
cartels in Mexico are reaching an almost co-equal branch of
government in Mexico. I don't--I can't reconcile your opening
statement with the reality that today the plazas on the
northern border of Mexico are run by the cartels. The people
trying to cross the Border pay a fee. They are making more
money off of human trafficking than they are drug smuggling.
The Sinaloa Cartels have what they call the Sinaloa Air Force,
who come and drop fentanyl in ultralights and go back home.
The Mexican government does not have control over the
situation. There are precursors coming into Mexican ports, and
they are being transferred to cartels, who are manufacturing
methamphetamine and fentanyl at scale and finding ways to get
it into this country, not--in many cases with American citizens
being the mules coming across the Border--I get that, certainly
more American citizens responsible for the distribution to
these children and adults of all ages who are dying.
So, how--it's interesting to me that President Trump was
criticized for putting a potential tariff on Mexico. Everybody
said it was going to be horrible, it's going to kill the
economy. The only thing that it did, over the course of a few
days, is prompt the now-current president of Mexico to deploy
10,000 troops to the Border. Well, if there's no problem, if
there's no problem with them being an equal partner to the
difficulties we have at the Border, why would they do that?
Because they're just afraid of a tariff? Or are they
recognizing that we're shedding light on a situation at the
Southern Border that they have simply not made a priority? Why
would they do that?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Well, I cannot speak on behalf of the
Mexican government. I do not work----
Senator Tillis. Well, let me just back up, then, because
you're a smart person. I just absolutely reject out of hand
that this is--we've got to deal with the illicit trade and guns
going across the Border. I agree with that. In fact, I got in
trouble with some gun--Second Amendment advocacy groups,
because I agree that we've got to fix that problem. But--and
maybe just for the record, you can suggest to me why you think
Mexico has done everything they have to play their part in
preventing this poison from being manufactured.
China, in plain sight, is sending precursors. The Mexican--
whoever's running the ports and who are allowing supply chains
to occur are allowing it to occur at scale, and over 100,000
people are dying every year in this country, many of them as a
result of fentanyl or opioids. More people die in North
Carolina as a result of overdoses for fentanyl or opioids than
people die on our highways. Most of this--most reasonable
people--unless, for the purposes of QFRs, you can send me
evidence--that Mexico needs to wake up and be a partner and a
friend to our south and address this as the problem that it is,
and it's happening in plain sight among the Mexican authorities
and among the cartels who have organized the plazas at the
northern border, and they are running it.
There is no way that Mexico sends 10,000 to their northern
border if they don't think they've got a problem that President
Trump has illuminated. Thank you, all, for being here today.
But please understand that some of the things you've asked for
are all just steps in the right direction. But this is far more
complicated than any one thing we can do, and I look forward to
continue and engage with you. Thank you.
Senator Moody. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Graham.
Senator Graham. Thank you very much. Sheriff Barnes, you've
been involved in this space for quite a while, right? How would
you describe the role of China in the fentanyl problem America
faces?
Sheriff Barnes. China is the first domino that tips in
contributing to the fentanyl crisis. They're the contributor of
the vast majority of the precursor chemicals, and if we deal
with that, that would be the first--a great first step in
dealing with----
Senator Graham. When they say they're not, they're lying,
right?
Sheriff Barnes. I would say they're not being truthful.
Yes.
Senator Graham. Yes. I would say they're lying. So, there's
a 10 percent tariff on China. One of the things that President
Trump would like to accomplish is to protect our country from
fentanyl poisoning. Sheriff Barnes, what you say, the DEA
echoes. Without China, this couldn't happen. China is an
essential ingredient in the poisoning of America by fentanyl.
To the Chinese Communist Party: You either change, or there
will be consequences coming from the Trump administration and
the Congress. We're not going to sit by any longer and watch
you enrich yourselves, different companies in China, at the
expense of America. So, be on notice, you either change your
practices regarding supporting drug cartels in Mexico, China,
or you will pay a heavy price. And that's not too much to ask.
Do you agree, Sheriff Barnes?
Sheriff Barnes. I do, Senator.
Senator Graham. Doctor, how do you say your last name,
ma'am?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Farfan.
Senator Graham. Okay. Do you think the drug cartels should
be foreign terrorist organizations under U.S. law?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I'm going to comment on the impact that
this could have on U.S.-Mexico secured cooperation----
Senator Graham. No, I didn't ask that. I just said, do you
think they're deserving of the designation?
Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I believe it would really hinder the
notion of shared responsibility that is the cornerstone----
Senator Graham. No, that's not the question. I mean----
Dr. Farfan-Mendez [continuing]. Of U.S.-Mexico----
Senator Graham [continuing]. I think----
Dr. Farfan-Mendez [continuing]. Cooperation.
Senator Graham [continuing]. I think they've earned it a
thousand times over. And to our friends in Mexico, we want to
work with you, but we're not going to sit on the sidelines any
longer and watch drug labs right below the Southern Border
manufacture out in the open fentanyl and other drugs to kill
Americans. We want to work with you. Sheriff Barnes, do you
believe that in many ways Mexico has lost sovereignty over this
issue?
Sheriff Barnes. I believe the Mexican laws have failed,
domestically, and I believe that that has had down-range
effects on U.S. lives.
Senator Graham. So, to our friends in Mexico, we appreciate
you sending the soldiers, but that's just a first step. As
Senator Tillis said, we need to put the drug cartels on notice,
you cannot thrive and survive the way you're doing today. Why
are they in the drug business? Because the return on investment
is large, and the risk is small. They'll get out of this
business when some of them get killed or go to jail. Do you
agree with that, Sheriff Barnes?
Sheriff Barnes. I do agree with that. I think it's a
complex issue. But they're one component of it, obviously, as
the manufacturers. There's lack of accountability, and until we
address the issues on both sides, the addiction issue north of
the Border and the supply issue south of the Border and many
other things that have to happen----
Senator Graham. Well, I'm talking about the drug cartels.
They're in this business because it seems to be a good
business.
Sheriff Barnes. They are the equivalent of Amazon, a
Fortune 100 company. They operate in scale.
Senator Graham. I can't say it any better. And they're
making money at the expense of us. Two families, Ms. Norring
and Mr. Puerta--how do you say your last name, sir?
Mr. Puerta. Puerta. Puerta. It's okay, though. I
understand.
Senator Graham. Okay.
Mr. Puerta [continuing]. If you can't roll the Rs, it's
okay.
Senator Graham. Yes, I have a lot of problems speaking, at
times. But I don't have any problem understanding what you're
telling me. Both of you are telling me that your loved ones
paid the ultimate price because of failed policies. Do you both
agree with that?
Mr. Puerta. Yes, Senator.
Ms. Norring. I agree, Senator.
Senator Graham. Okay. If you want to deal with this, we
need to repeal Section 230. You should be allowed to sue.
Ms. Norring. I agree, Senator.
Senator Graham. Snapchat should be sued.
Mr. Puerta. Absolutely.
Senator Graham. All these companies should be sued, because
they're fostering an environment that is killing people. They
are a dangerous product. It's the only companies I know of in
America that there is no government agency really regulating
their behavior--and you can't sue them. And there are really no
laws on the books that control their behavior, empower
consumers. So if you feel hopeless out there, as a parent, and
helpless, there's a reason you feel that way, because there's
not a damned thing you can do about it. That needs to change. I
wish you well in your lawsuits, and I will, until my last
breath, here, try to repeal Section 230. Thank you all very
much.
Senator Moody. Thank you, Senator Graham--senior to me,
Senator Graham. You know, a lot can be done besides just
allowing people to sue. I mean, we, as the Federal Government,
can enact laws to stop this from happening in our country. It's
abhorrent that more has not been done to stop this. And I
wanted to just touch on a few things I was confused by and hope
that we can get some enlightenment on that. You know, I'm the
wife of a law enforcement officer. I was a Federal prosecutor,
myself, going after transnational criminal organizations and
drug traffickers. And it was not uncommon that those wishing to
push poison into our United States were not U.S. citizens.
In fact, many actions taken against cartel members, or
otherwise, were against foreign nationals. In fact, it was
confusing to me that I heard a question about DEA participating
in trying to help and assist with removing those here illegally
committing crimes, especially those committing drug trafficking
crimes while we're in the middle of a drug crisis--why that
would be confusing or even suggested that that might be a waste
of resource when, in my experience, and certainly in my
husband's experience, many of his cases, especially involving
drug trafficking, dealt with foreign nationals. It's not
surprising to me that they would enlist the Drug Enforcement
Administration to assist. So, I would like to ask Sheriff
Barnes, could you speak to the claim that most prosecutions for
fentanyl trafficking is being done against U.S. citizens?
Sheriff Barnes. Yes. I think that data that was said--first
you have to look at this in the population that we're dealing
with. You have the trafficking component, which is a large-
scale, en masse bringing across the Border narcotics, and then
you have the distribution and sales part of that. And that
oftentimes includes Americans on both sides. But those American
citizens participating have a direct nexus to or are acting on
behalf of the cartels. They have been compensated by the
cartels for their actions and their trafficking. They're not
operating independent of that.
Senator Moody. Generally speaking, Sheriff Barnes, once you
have the upper echelons of cartels start pushing distribution
down into the United States and others in the United States,
that takes multiple people. Correct? Thousands, in fact?
Sheriff Barnes. Yes. It's a very organized marketing,
distribution network, but the profits, proceeds, and actors are
all tied to the cartels. The drugs coming across have a nexus
to cartels, regardless of citizenry. The distribution is on
behalf and behest of the cartels, and the profits are either
laundered domestically, to hide that in the continental United
States, or are transited back across the Border to the profit
of the cartels.
Senator Moody. Recognizing the extent of the damage
inflicted on our Nation and our vulnerable populations from
this crisis, and recognizing that so little has been done in
the last 4 years, does it surprise you that a cross-agency
effort to reel back some of the damage is being put into place?
Sheriff Barnes. No, I do not think that's surprising. I
think it's necessary to collaborate across not just different
agencies but different layers of government, down to the local
level. I think it's also necessary to synergize those efforts
in a very coordinated fashion, or else we're just playing
whack-a-mole with the cartels. It's not any one thing. It's
doing 12 things simultaneously in a very coordinated fashion
that's going to, I think, hinder the cartels and start making a
difference.
Senator Moody. And in your opinion, the cooperation and
partnership of State and local law enforcement is necessary to
start having an effect, to reel back in some of what's happened
over the last 4 years?
Sheriff Barnes. I think that even before 4 years ago, and
even more now, it's necessary to collaborate, develop
partnerships--in a vertical fashion, with our Federal, State,
and locals, and horizontally across those same planes, Federal
agency to Federal agency, State to State, local to local--and
have the more intentional conversation and, quite honestly, a
collaborative, coordinated effort to be on the offense rather
than playing the defense. We've been on the defense too long in
responding to the cartels. They're going to pivot around us. We
need to be ahead of their next move, to outmaneuver them and
anticipate what they're going to do next.
Senator Moody. A devastating crisis certainly requires
strong actions to solve it. When we first started using the
term, ``Just Say No''--I say we, although I was very young at
the time. I don't know about you all, I was very young. When
Nancy Reagan first just said, ``Just Say No,'' we were in a
crisis of overdose deaths in our Nation. We lost a little over
3,000 nationwide a year. We now lose 110,000 Americans every
year. And I think it's important, when we use the word,
``crisis,'' over and over so that we don't become immune to
that, and that we recognize the magnitude of what we are
dealing with, that we remember what we used to frame as a
crisis is now a national travesty. And if anyone says that this
hasn't kneecapped the strength of our Nation, they do not know
what they are talking about.
And so I want to thank, again, Chairman Grassley for
calling this hearing. Again, just to put it in perspective,
we're in the 119th Congress. This is our first non-nomination
hearing in this Committee, and it was on fentanyl, the number
one killer of working- and fighting-age Americans. You were a
part of this. This is a big deal, moving forward. And hopefully
the energy that not just our witnesses today brought but the
energy of everyone in this room, especially those that stood up
and have felt this for so long and have directed that passion
and that emotion toward change and progress, the 119th Congress
hears you. We see you.
And I'm going to be a squealer, to make sure that they take
action and move forward. So, we appreciate you being here
today. We appreciate all the witnesses for being here today. I
used to be a judge before I went into this crazy, chaotic world
of politics. I'm feeling back at home. The meeting is
adjourned. Thank you so much.
[Whereupon, at 1:24 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
[Additional material submitted for the record follows.]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses of Jaime Puerta to Questions Submitted by Senator Hirono
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
A P P E N D I X
The following submissions are available at:
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-119shrg61321/pdf/CHRG-
119shrg
61321-add1.pdf
Submitted by Chairman Grassley:
Alcantara, D.C., January 29, 2025, letter........................ 4
Alcantara, Sandy, January 29, 2025, letter....................... 5
American Academy of Pain Medicine, et al., February 3, 2025,
letter........................................................ 6
Arwine, Laurie, statement........................................ 9
Association of State Criminal Investigative Agencies, et al.,
January 31, 2025, letter...................................... 12
Ayala, Vanessa, letter--Redacted................................. 14
Badura, August, September 6, 2023, letter........................ 16
Badura, Lauri, February 3, 2025, letter.......................... 17
Barron, April, letter............................................ 19
Baumgard, Julie, statement....................................... 22
Bothell, Jeanine, statement...................................... 23
Chandler, Shelley, letter........................................ 24
Chvala, Susan, January 23, 2025, letter--Redacted................ 25
DeShazo, Sharon, and Family, letter.............................. 28
Didier, Chris, January 31, 2025, letter--Redacted................ 29
Dillenbeck, Laurie, Jared, and Family, January 24, 2025, letter--
Redacted...................................................... 31
Eastwood, Karen, January 31, 2025, letter--Redacted.............. 33
Ellington, Dave and Cheryl, January 22, 2025, letter--Redacted... 34
Family of Daulton Ian Finlayson, statement--Redacted............. 35
Family of Heath, statement....................................... 42
Family of Jessica Anne May, statement............................ 43
Family of Lauren Renee Cole, statement........................... 44
Family of Romello, statement..................................... 47
Father of Nicholas Jordan Di Marco, ``I Can't Wait Until
Tomorrow,'' poem.............................................. 48
Federation for American Immigration Reform, statement............ 49
Figueredo, Kristie, January 22, 2025, letter--Redacted........... 52
Filson, Steve and Cheri, January 30, 2025, letter................ 53
Fraternal Order of Police, January 30, 2025, letter.............. 54
Fritz, Arnie, January 24, 2025, letter--Redacted................. 56
Globe, Alden and Susan, statement................................ 57
Hornsby, Antoinette, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted.......... 58
Howland, Deborah, letter......................................... 59
Illinois Drug Enforcement Officers Association, February 2, 2025,
letter........................................................ 61
Iowa Narcotics Officers Association, letter...................... 63
Jones, Karen, letter, September 2023............................. 64
Kitts, Sharon, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted................ 65
Knight, Julie, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted................ 66
Submitted by Chairman Grassley (continued):
LaDue, Megan, letter............................................. 67
Leonardi, Mona, February 1, 2025, letter--Redacted............... 68
Loberg, Michelle, letter--Redacted............................... 70
McLeod-Fritz, Eileen, September 2023, letter..................... 72
Mertz, N. Dawn, February 3, 2025, letter......................... 73
Minten, Kim, letter--Redacted.................................... 75
Mother of Calvin, letter......................................... 76
Mother of Luca Manuel, letter.................................... 77
Mullins, Sheila, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted.............. 78
National Association of Police Organizations, January 29, 2025,
letter........................................................ 80
National District Attorneys Association, February 2, 2025, letter 81
Peace Officers Research Association of California, February 6,
2025, letter.................................................. 83
Price, Barrye L., Ph.D., CADCA, January 31, 2025, letter......... 84
Riebl Family, letter............................................. 85
Sautter, Adrienne, statement--Redacted........................... 87
Sedivy, Miki, statement--Redacted................................ 88
Shamash, Juli, January 25, 2025, letter.......................... 92
Sibling of Sylvia, July 18, 2023, letter......................... 95
Silvano, Andrea Jo, letter....................................... 96
Stadick, Michelle, January 28, 2025, letter--Redacted............ 100
Swan, Greg, July 14, 2023, letter................................ 101
Swan, Jack, July 14, 2023, letter................................ 103
Swan, Tamara, July 14, 2023, letter.............................. 104
Theriault, Tricia, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted............ 105
Thomas, Andrea, letter--Redacted................................. 109
Urban, Diane, January 29, 2025, letter--Redacted................. 111
Vasquez, Geralyn, statement...................................... 113
Venditto, Carol, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted.............. 116
Webster, Kim, letter, September 2023............................. 118
Wilkie, Caryn, January 29, 2025, letter.......................... 119
Wilson, Cheryl, January 27, 2025, letter--Redacted............... 121
Wintheiser, Jody, letter, September 2023......................... 123
Worman, Dave and Sharon, January 23, 2025, letter--Redacted...... 124
Zingler, Becky, letter, September 2023........................... 125
Submitted by Ranking Member Durbin:
American Academy of Pain Medicine, et al., February 3, 2025,
letter........................................................ 126
Arnold, Julianna, February 3, 2025, letter--Redacted............. 129
Badura, Lauri, February 3, 2025, letter.......................... 131
Bolesta, Richard and Sangeeta, statement......................... 133
Chapman, Samuel P., January 30, 2025, letter..................... 134
Elisha S., resident, Euclid, Ohio, statement..................... 136
Family of Daulton Ian Finlayson, statement--Redacted............. 137
Flores, Carol, statement......................................... 144
Fox, Malia, statement............................................ 145
Fraternal Order of Police, January 30, 2025, letter.............. 148
Gray, Lynn, statement............................................ 150
Hornsby, Antoinette, statement................................... 151
Iowa Narcotics Officers' Association, letter..................... 152
Jessica C., resident, Cleveland, Ohio, statement................. 153
LaDue, Megan, statement--Redacted................................ 155
Mecchia, Heather, statement--Redacted............................ 157
Park, Ju Nyeong, Ph.D., M.H.S., statement........................ 159
Submitted by Ranking Member Durbin (continued):
Rierson, Sheri, February 1, 2025, letter......................... 168
Roebuck, Bethany, February 5, 2025, letter....................... 169
Shambaugh, Erika, statement...................................... 171
Taylor-Bouchard, Julie, resident, Palmer, Alaska, statement...... 173
Submitted by Senator Cruz:
``2 Milligrams of Fentanyl: A Lethal Dose,'' poster displayed
during hearing................................................ 175
``Fentanyl Carnage Skyrockets Under Biden's Open Borders,''
poster displayed during hearing............................... 176
Submitted by Senator Kennedy:
``Federal Mandatory Minimum Drug Sentencing,'' poster displayed
during hearing................................................ 177
Submitted by Senator Booker:
ACLU of Nevada, et al., 190 advocacy groups, February 3, 2025,
letter........................................................ 178
American Society of Addiction Medicine, February 3, 2025, letter. 186
Booker, Hon. Cory A., et al., letter to Attorney General Merrick
Garland and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
Department of Justice, and Secretary Xavier Becerra, U.S.
Department of Health & Human Services, June 27, 2022.......... 192
Booker, Hon. Cory A., letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland
and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
Department of Justice, January 10, 2024....................... 198
attachment.................................................... 201
Booker, Hon. Cory A., et al., letter to Attorney General Merrick
Garland and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
Department of Justice, July 2, 2024........................... 204
attachment 1.................................................. 209
attachment 2.................................................. 212
Booker, Hon. Cory A., letter to Attorney General Pam Bondi and
Acting Drug Enforcement Administrator Derek S. Maltz, U.S.
Department of Justice, February 5, 2025....................... 213
attachment 1.................................................. 217
attachment 2.................................................. 220
attachment 3.................................................. 225
attachment 4.................................................. 230
Ousterman, Susan, February 3, 2025, letter....................... 233
R Street Explainer, "How a Drug's Schedule I Status Restricts
Research," factsheet.......................................... 236
Singer, Jeffrey A., M.D., FACS, February 4, 2025, letter......... 238
Uriarte, Carlos Felipe, U.S. Department of Justice Office of
Legislative Affairs, December 9, 2022, letter to Hon. Cory A.
Booker........................................................ 241
[all]