    [Senate Hearing 119-135]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 119-135

                      THE POISONING OF AMERICA: FENTANYL,
                          ITS ANALOGUES, AND THE NEED
                         FOR PERMANENT CLASS SCHEDULING

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION
                                   __________

                                FEBRUARY 4, 2025
                                   __________

                               Serial No. J-119-3
                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

                   [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            www.judiciary.senate.gov
                                www.govinfo.gov

                                   ______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    61-321                    WASHINGTON : 2026

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                      CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman
    LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina    RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois,
    JOHN CORNYN, Texas                       Ranking Member
    MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah                 SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
    TED CRUZ, Texas                      AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
    JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri                CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
    THOM TILLIS, North Carolina          RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
    JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee          CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
    ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               ALEX PADILLA, California
    KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama            PETER WELCH, Vermont
    ASHLEY MOODY, Florida                ADAM B. SCHIFF, California

                 Kolan Davis, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
             Joe Zogby, Democratic Chief Counsel and Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page

    Grassley, Hon. Charles E.........................................     1
    Durbin, Hon. Richard J...........................................     2
    Booker, Hon. Cory A.
        Prepared statement...........................................    51

                                   WITNESSES

    Barnes, Donald...................................................    11
        Prepared statement...........................................    53

    Farfan-Mendez, Cecilia...........................................    10
        Prepared statement...........................................    58

    Norring, Bridgette...............................................     6
        Prepared statement...........................................    63
        Responses to written questions...............................    71

    Puerta, Jaime....................................................     5
        Prepared statement...........................................    74
        Responses to written questions...............................    79

    Westlake, Timothy W..............................................     8
        Prepared statement...........................................    82

                                    APPENDIX

    Items submitted for the record...................................    95

                      THE POISONING OF AMERICA: FENTANYL,
                          ITS ANALOGUES, AND THE NEED
                         FOR PERMANENT CLASS SCHEDULING

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2025

                                  United States Senate,
                                    Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., in
    Room 226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Charles E.
    Grassley, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Grassley [presiding], Graham, Cornyn,
    Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Tillis, Kennedy, Blackburn, Schmitt, Britt,
    Moody, Durbin, Whitehouse, Klobuchar, Blumenthal, Hirono,
    Booker, Padilla, Welch, and Schiff.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES E. GRASSLEY,
                 A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF IOWA

        Chairman Grassley. Well, we welcome everybody for this very
    important hearing. Obviously, you know it's on fentanyl and
    fentanyl-related substances. Before I begin, I want to take a
    moment to welcome members in the audience. We have about 30
    guests, including parents of kids who have tragically died from
    fentanyl poisoning, as well as law enforcement officers who
    have a strong interest in this issue. We thank you all very
    much for your support of this hearing by being here.
        Fentanyl accounts for a vast majority of drug overdose
    deaths in the United States every year. In the last full year
    for which we have data--that'd be 2 years ago--around 75,000
    lives were lost to fentanyl alone, and that happens to work out
    to be about 200 people dying every day. We titled this hearing,
    quote, ``The Poisoning of America,'' end of quote, because most
    Americans don't know that they're taking fentanyl. Many are
    children who think they're taking something else that turns out
    to be laced with fentanyl. There are countless families with
    tragic stories.
        One family in Iowa, the Arwine family--Lisbon, Iowa--is one
    of them. Laurie Arwine sent us a letter that I'd like to
    introduce into the record, and I'll do that without objection.
        [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
        Chairman Grassley. Laurie's youngest son, Bailey, was taken
    on April the 5th, 2022. Twenty-two years old. He was not a drug
    addict. He did not think he was taking fentanyl, but the pill
    he took was laced with it.
        Laurie wrote, quote, ``Fentanyl stole our son's future and
    the joy of watching Bailey marry the love of his life, having a
    mother-son dance, watching him buy his first home, watching him
    become a loving father, and our joy of having more
    grandchildren. We will never know if any of his children, our
    grandchildren, would have Bailey's curly hair, his cute,
    smirking smile, or his twinkling blue eyes. There will always
    be an empty chair at our family gatherings, whether it's
    Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, birthdays, dinner parties. His
    voice and laughter will forever be silenced,'' end of quote.
        Maybe the saddest part of the fentanyl crisis is that so
    many parents can tell a similar story of loss. In fact, we have
    many of them with us here today, including two of our
    witnesses. I want to tell parents in the audience today, thank
    you for being here. Thank you for making your voices heard.
    Thank you for doing what you can do to keep other parents from
    going through what you've gone through.
        How long do we have to keep suffering through this attack
    on our children? This is not an easy problem to solve, but
    there are certain parts of the problem that are simple to
    address. For one thing, commonsense border control will help
    stem the flow of fentanyl. We have no idea how many pounds of
    fentanyl were carried in the got-aways that will never show up
    in any statistics. We also have no idea how many surges of
    illegal immigrants have been used by the cartels as
    distractions to push drugs through our understaffed ports of
    entry. Thankfully, the Trump administration is taking this
    threat seriously.
        Another simple thing to address is fentanyl knockoffs.
    Fentanyl is a substance easily changed by drug cartels to
    bypass the legal scheduling while becoming even more deadly.
    That's why, in 2018, the Drug Enforcement Administration
    scheduled fentanyl knockoffs as a class, using a formula
    created by an emergency room doctor. He's here today, and I
    thank you for coming. And he'll tell us more about that
    problem.
        Congress temporarily extended the scheduling, over and
    over. We've played this game for too long. It's time to make
    this temporary scheduling permanent, so that the drug cartels
    do not have the opportunity to flood our country with even
    deadlier versions of fentanyl. Last week, Senator Cassidy and I
    introduced a bipartisan bill to do just that. Seven Democratic
    Senators co-sponsored it. We should pass that bill quickly
    because of the temporary scheduling that we last passed expires
    again on March 31.
        We must get this done. We must also support President
    Trump's attempt to secure the Border and deal with the Mexican
    drug cartels. America's children need us to act. And I'm glad
    to have Senator Durbin speak now, but I'm also glad that he's
    sympathetic to what we're trying to do, because I know you know
    it's a problem.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
               A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

        Senator Durbin. I certainly do, Chairman Grassley, and I'm
    glad you've held this hearing. This is a bipartisan issue, as
    it should be, to discuss fentanyl and the devastating impact
    that opioid addiction has on America. In just a decade, this
    synthetic opioid has emerged as the deadliest drug in American
    history. All it takes is 2 milligrams--that's a fraction of the
    size of a penny--to cause an overdose. It is so cheap that
    dealers are lacing lethal amounts into street drugs like
    cocaine and heroin, and their buyers are none the wiser.
        There's an overdose crisis in America, but we've learned
    that evidence-based solutions reduce death. In fact, in 2023,
    overdose deaths actually decreased for the first time since
    2018, going down by more than 10 percent. We need to look at
    every factor that contributes to this reduction. Counseling and
    treatment, training for first responders, and naloxone to our
    hardest hit communities all make a difference.
        We must also address how this poison gets in the hands of
    the most vulnerable people in America, our kids. Too often,
    fentanyl is peddled in the open on some of the world's largest
    social media platforms. Last Congress, the Judiciary Committee
    advanced several bipartisan bills that would finally hold these
    companies accountable and demand safeguards be put in place to
    protect our children. One of the bills is the Cooper Davis Act.
    Cooper is a 16-year-old Kansas teen who tragically lost his
    life to a fentanyl-laced pill he bought through Snapchat. This
    bill would require Big Tech companies to take a more proactive
    role in stopping drug dealers from using their platforms.
        Sadly, Cooper is not the only teen who has lost his life to
    drugs peddled on social media. Bridgette Norring is here to
    testify today. Her son Devin tragically died after taking a
    fentanyl-laced pill he thought was Percocet that he purchased
    over Snapchat. There's a lawsuit that she'll tell us about,
    from the parents of those victims through Snapchat.
        In the coming days, I'll join Senators Marshall, Shaheen,
    and others to reintroduce what we call Cooper Davis and Devin
    Norring Act. I hope the Committee will again advance this
    critical legislation on a bipartisan basis, and I hope that
    Congress will finally, finally allow these companies to be sued
    by their victims' families so they can be held accountable in a
    court of law. Enough teens have died due to Big Tech's
    deliberate indifference.
        We must also acknowledge the role the U.S. has played in
    arming cartels to the teeth. We send hundreds of thousands of
    firearms south of our Border in an iron river, and the cartels
    cash them in. They facilitate the use of violence to traffic
    fentanyl into the United States.
        Both State and Federal law enforcement agencies are in the
    front lines of protecting our communities from fentanyl and
    other opioids, but detection is getting more difficult.
    Fentanyl is so potent and moved in quantities so small that
    high-value shipments can easily be hidden. As a result, law
    enforcement need access to technology and resources to quickly
    and efficiently detect these drugs. This includes expanding
    nonintrusive inspection capability, making lifesaving naloxone
    widely available, and adequately funding State and local law
    enforcement.
        The funding freeze which we're talking about--if it's going
    to stop the efforts of law enforcement to combat fentanyl--is a
    bad idea. The same is true of the recent order diverting
    Federal law enforcement agents, including from the DEA and ATF,
    away from combating fentanyl and firearms traffic by cartels
    and working instead on a mass deportation effort. As a
    reminder, the vast majority of fentanyl and other illegal drugs
    enter the U.S. and are smuggled by American citizens through
    legal ports of entry.
        I'm also gravely concerned about the negative impact of
    mass removals of senior career law enforcement at Department of
    Justice and FBI on our ability to hold traffickers accountable,
    to cut off the supply of fentanyl. The recent actions we've
    seen distract us from the need to take a comprehensive,
    bipartisan approach to tackling this crisis, including
    investing in addiction prevention and treatment; enforcing and
    strengthening our gun laws; giving Federal, State, and local
    law enforcement the resources they need to do their jobs
    effectively. Getting fentanyl off the streets is a herculean
    task that will require all of us to come together and work
    across the aisle to make this country healthier and safer.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Grassley. Thank you. I'm going to introduce the
    Majority witnesses, and Senator Durbin's going to introduce his
    witnesses. And then I wanted to announce that, at approximately
    7 or 8 minutes to 11, I'm going to leave the Committee meeting
    to open the Senate, and Senator Cornyn will act as Chairman
    while I'm gone.
        Our first witness, Jaime Puerta, is a U.S. Marine Corps
    veteran; president of an organization, Victims of Illicit
    Drugs--and that goes by the acronym VOID, for short--which is
    an organization he founded after he lost his 16-year-old son
    Daniel to fentanyl. VOID is a nonprofit dedicated to educating
    parents and children about the dangers of drug use and social
    media platforms. Mr. Puerta, I think I speak for everyone on
    this Committee when I say that we're deeply sorry for the loss
    of your son.
        Next, Mr. Tim Westlake is a driving force behind today's
    class scheduling policy and has fought against the drug
    epidemic for over 30 years. He's a full-time emergency room
    physician and a part-time medical regulator in Wisconsin. He
    also provides medical direction for a statewide peer-to-peer
    drug recovery program. In the past, Dr. Westlake has served as
    chairman of the Wisconsin Medical Examining Board and was
    formerly a member of Wisconsin's Controlled Substances Board.
        Finally, Sheriff Don Barnes--thank you, Sheriff--is
    sheriff-coroner of Orange County, California. He leads around
    4,000 employees, operates one of the Nation's largest county
    jail systems, and manages the Orange County Crime Lab. Sheriff
    Barnes also serves as the Major County Sheriffs of America's
    vice president for homeland security and as their chairman of
    the intelligence commander group. Thank you, all, for once
    again being here today. I'll turn it over to Ranking Member
    Durbin now to introduce.
        Senator Durbin. Thank you, Chairman Grassley. I want to
    welcome Dr. Cecilia Farfan-Mendez, an affiliated researcher
    with the Institute on Global Conflict and Cooperation at UC-San
    Diego, an expert on organized crime and U.S.-Mexico security.
    She co-founded the Mexico Violence Research Project, which
    provides information, analysis, research, and resources for
    understanding violence and organized crime in Mexico.
        I also welcome Bridgette Norring, who is a survivor parent
    to her son, Devin, and a social media reform advocate. Ms.
    Norring founded the Devin Norring Foundation to raise awareness
    and educate children, parents, caregivers, and communities
    about the dangers of illicit drugs. She's a member of Parents
    for Safe Online Spaces, which advocates for online safety for
    kids. Mrs. Norring, I read your testimony, and the loss of your
    son was so graphic and so touching. Thank you for sharing.
        Mr. Puerta, I read yours, as well. It's just heartbreaking,
    as you describe those five--or those six days in the hospital
    before you lost your son. Any of us who've lost a child know
    exactly what you went through. I'll never forget it. Thank you
    both for being--thank all the witnesses for being with us
    today.
        Senator Cornyn [presiding]. Mr.--Ranking Member Durbin, I
    believe you're up first. Well, let's go ahead and hear from the
    witnesses. Mr. Puerta, would you have an opening statement for
    the Committee, please?

    STATEMENT OF JAIME PUERTA, PRESIDENT AND CO-FOUNDER OF VICTIMS
      OF ILLICIT DRUGS, AND CO-CHAIR OF PROJECT FACING FENTANYL,
                       SANTA CLARITA, CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Puerta. Good morning, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member
    Durbin, and esteemed Members of this Committee. My name is
    Jaime Puerta, and I am the president and co-founder of Victims
    of Illicit Drugs, VOID, and co-chair of Project Facing Fentanyl
    Now. Joining me today are Mr. Steve Filson, a retired police
    officer and secretary-treasurer of VOID, as well as Ms. Andrea
    Thomas, chair of Project Facing Fentanyl, and Ms. Gretchen
    Peters, CEO of Alliance to Counter Crimes Online, and other
    family members who have endured the profound loss of a loved
    one due to illicit fentanyl. VOID, a California-based nonprofit
    organization, was established to educate, advocate, and raise
    public awareness about the devastating dangers of illicit
    fentanyl and other synthetic analogues.
        Today, I stand before you to give voice to the countless
    lives lost, including my own son, Daniel Puerta-Johnson. My son
    was not a habitual drug user by any sense of the word, nor had
    he been diagnosed with substance use disorder, but he was
    diagnosed with ADHD and depression. On April 1, 2020, at the
    very beginning of the pandemic, I walked into my son's room and
    found him practically lifeless in his bed. In a state of shock
    and panic, I called 911 first, then his mother. Emergency
    services arrived at our home and immediately began CPR, and
    naloxone was administered.
        He was then transported to Los Angeles Children's Hospital,
    where a team of specialty doctors did everything they could to
    bring our son back but unfortunately were unsuccessful in
    bringing him out of his catatonic state. His health had become
    much worse from the day that he had been admitted, and all they
    could do was to keep him comfortable until his mother, Denise,
    and I made the agonizing decision to discontinue all life
    support--all life support efforts. On April 6, 2020, at 3:45
    p.m., all life support was discontinued.
        His mother, Denise, got into his hospital bed and lay next
    to him, gently stroking his beautiful head of dark brown hair,
    and I was holding his right hand when he drew his last breath
    at exactly 5:08 p.m. of that April 6 when he quietly passed
    away. I kissed the bridge of his nose, like I did on most
    nights when saying goodnight, and left the hospital to go home
    without my son, utterly broken, devastated, angry, and
    confused.
        After my son's passing, I was contacted by the Los Angeles
    County Sheriff's Office, and I was told that my son had died
    due to an overdose. Half a blue pill, which I later came to
    find out looked exactly like a pharmaceutical-grade blue M30
    oxycodone pill, had been found on his dresser. It was sent to
    the laboratory for analysis and found that the pill, which had
    taken my son's life, was illicit fentanyl. My son had consumed
    what he thought was a blue M30 oxycodone pill, but in fact had
    unknowingly--I repeat, unknowingly--ingested an illicitly
    manufactured counterfeit opioid made of nothing more than
    filler, a binding agent, and illicit fentanyl. This was
    deceptively made to look exactly like a pharmaceutical grade
    oxycodone pill, and it killed him.
        I have shared Daniel's story countless times, yet the
    problem worsens. Illicit fentanyl remains an insidious threat.
    So, what can we do? Our organization believes that knowledge
    saves lives, but we also need legislative action. The HALT
    Fentanyl Act currently under consideration is a vital tool in
    this fight. Illicit fentanyl has no medical use and is highly
    addictive, warranting its classification as a Schedule I
    substance under the Controlled Substances Act.
        For too long, this legislation has stalled, despite clear
    evidence of its necessity. My son Daniel's death is just one of
    countless tragedies caused by this epidemic. His story is one
    of hope extinguished, of a family left broken, but it is also a
    call to action. No family--no family should have to endure the
    pain that we have suffered. We have the tools to address this
    crisis. What we need now is the will to act. I urge you, I beg
    you, to act decisively and combat this crisis. Thank you for
    inviting me and my fellow bereaved parents to this esteemed
    Committee. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Puerta appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Puerta. Ms. Norring?

     STATEMENT OF BRIDGETTE NORRING, SURVIVOR PARENT, AND FOUNDER,
            DEVIN J. NORRING FOUNDATION, HASTINGS, MINNESOTA

        Ms. Norring. Thank you, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member
    Durbin, and Members of the Committee. My name is Bridgette
    Norring. I am a wife, mother, grandmother, advocate, and
    founder of the Devin J. Norring Foundation, a foundation I wish
    didn't even have to be in existence. Today marks another month
    that my son, Devin Joseph Norring, was taken from my family at
    the age of 19, well before he ever got the chance to really
    begin life. You see, Senators, that is how parents like myself
    now measure time. It goes by the weeks, months, or years it has
    been since our children lost their lives.
        Devin was your average teenager. He had a passion for
    football, skateboarding, BMXing, and music. He was smart as a
    whip when it came to anything mathematical. He was his
    siblings', Hayley and Caden's, biggest protector. He had plans
    to go to California the summer of 2022 to look into schools to
    continue his music education and become the musician he wanted
    to be. Unfortunately, he never made it.
        He had been suffering from blackout migraines and dental
    pain that he'd been under doctors' care for, and at the height
    of the pandemic, those appointments were canceled. And we
    believe Devin was desperate by any means necessary to treat the
    pain. The morning after Devin and an acquaintance went onto
    Snapchat and connected with a drug dealer, he was found
    unresponsive in his bedroom by his then-14-year-old brother,
    Caden. His bedroom should've been the safest place in the
    world. And as I held him one last time, I promised my son I
    would do something.
        We later learned that Devin was poisoned by fentanyl: a
    single pill with enough fentanyl to kill multiple people. I now
    also know that social media platforms are one of the primary
    sources which unsuspecting teens buy all types of drugs, with
    the majority of them containing fentanyl. Senators, this crisis
    has many facets, and each should be addressed with care,
    empathy, and courage: education; supply and-demand issues; a
    lack of accessible, affordable mental health and recovery
    programs; and holding drug dealers and traffickers accountable
    for the devastating loss of life are all important issues to
    address. But we must do more. It is critical that we address
    social media platforms that facilitate drug peddling to
    children--platforms which make these connections as a matter of
    design and then profit from them. We cannot say we are
    protecting our children until we face this fact and pass
    legislation to stop it.
        In the spring of 2021, myself and several families were
    invited to meet with executives from Snapchat. Today, that
    meeting is what drives my fuel for social media reform.
    Snapchat's executives claim that they had no idea this was
    happening, even though Snapchat and other platforms have been
    used for drug sales for years and this has been widely reported
    by the media. They blamed us, as parents, and told us that, due
    to Section 230, we had no power to hold them accountable in
    court. Senators, if someone opened a brick-and-mortar store and
    sold these drugs to our children out of that store, we would be
    held accountable. We would be shut down so fast. So I ask, why
    do the same rules not apply to social media?
        Since losing Devin, my family has watched drug dealers
    continue operating on Snapchat, Instagram, Telegram. And while
    we got zero justice for Devin's death, I'm proud to say we
    aided in the indictments of individuals with ties to the
    Sinaloa Cartel in Minneapolis. I believe there were 19 members
    of that indictment. I'm grateful to the Hastings Police
    Department, Dakota County Drug Task Force, and U.S. Attorney
    Andrew Luger's work on this case.
        In speaking about Devin's story with middle and high school
    students, kids have shared the toll Snapchat takes on their
    mental health and how, on average, they are spending 26-plus
    hours a week on these platforms. That's why my family and so
    many others fight hard to support the Kids Online Safety Act. I
    thank Senators Blumenthal and Blackburn for spearheading this
    vital legislation on behalf of our children, because KOSA is
    the crucial foundation for social media reform.
        I am blessed to work with my congressional representative,
    Senator Amy Klobuchar, and Representative Angie Craig. I want
    to thank Congresswoman Craig for introducing the Cooper Davis
    and Devin Norring Act and Senator Klobuchar for acting on her
    commitment and promise to help parents achieve accountability
    for Big Tech. Parents like me, Mr. Puerta, Amy Neville, Andrew
    Thomas, Steve Filson, and thousands of others cannot do this
    alone. We look to you to pass KOSA and the Cooper Davis and
    Devin Norring Act. We need you to stand with us and enact these
    pieces of legislation so that our country's kids have a
    fighting chance and stop losing their lives. I thank you. I am
    honored to be here and look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Norring appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Ms. Norring. Dr. Westlake?

    STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY W. WESTLAKE, M.D., FFSMB, FACEP, EMERGENCY
    PHYSICIAN, PROHEALTH OCONOMOWOC MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, OCONOMOWOC,
                               WISCONSIN

        Mr. Westlake. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin,
    distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting
    me to testify and for your leadership. Before I talk science, I
    wanted to tell you the last time I used Narcan. It was just
    days ago. It was a quiet night shift in the emergency
    department, and I was mulling over my testimony for this very
    hearing when I had to rush out to a car that screeched into the
    ambulance bay.
        It was driven by the girlfriend of a patient who took what
    he thought was a Percocet. It was actually a lethal dose of
    fentanyl. He wasn't breathing and was about to go into cardiac
    arrest. We pulled him out and quickly resuscitated him with
    Narcan. Within a minute, he went from being blue and pulseless
    to being wide awake. He went home with his family that night.
    He was lucky this time.
        This is my reality and that of so many emergency physicians
    across America. We have a problem in this country, and it
    requires all of us to work together to solve it. First, I'd
    like to clarify what fentanyl-related substances, or FRSs, are
    and why permanently scheduling them as a class is a critical
    policy tool.
        FRSs are highly active opioids, almost identical to
    fentanyl except for a tiny difference in their chemical
    structure created by changing a single ingredient during
    synthesis. The result of this tweak is a new, potent opioid
    with the same deadly effects as fentanyl--and without class
    scheduling would be legal until it caused numerous deaths.
    Fentanyls are so toxic and lethal that they can be classified--
    and have actually been used--as chemical weapons. The lethal
    dose is merely 2 milligrams, equivalent to 5 grains of sand,
    meaning that 1 teaspoon can kill 2,000 people. That is what is
    in this packet of sugar. It could kill 2,000 people if this
    were fentanyl.
        Telling parents--tragically, on more than one occasion,
    even friends of mine--that their child will never come home is
    the worst part of my job. In fact, the inspiration for FRS
    class scheduling arose out of the tragedy of my friend Lauri
    Badura's son, Archie. Archie was an altar server with my
    daughters. He started with prescription opioids, then moved to
    heroin and, unknowingly, fentanyl. I resuscitated Archie on his
    second-to-last overdose. At that time, I pulled out a body bag,
    laid it down next to him, and warned him that that's where he'd
    end up if he didn't seek help. He stayed clean for 6 months,
    until illicit fentanyl entered his life. One of the last things
    my friend Lauri saw of her son Archie was him being zipped up
    into a body bag.
        Motivated to act by hundreds of such deaths, FRS scheduling
    legislation came together quickly and was enacted unanimously
    in the Wisconsin legislature in 2017. DEA adopted it as
    national policy shortly thereafter, but only Congress can make
    it permanent. Some who oppose point to deaths from illicit
    fentanyl as proof that it doesn't work, but this is a
    misunderstanding of the facts. FRS scheduling does not address
    illicit fentanyl. It was never designed to do so. It only
    removed the incentive for legal chemical companies to create
    new FRSs, thus stopping them from ever existing in the first
    place.
        There is no quick and easy solution to the scourge of
    illicit fentanyl, but the solution to FRSs is a simple
    legislative fix, one that you have before you right now. At its
    core, FRS scheduling is not an extension of the War on Drugs or
    a law enforcement strategy designed to incarcerate. There have
    been a total of eight Federal prosecutions under the language
    as of 2021, half of which had already been known to have ties
    to drug cartels. As well, there has never been a prosecution
    for a nonbioactive FRS, because there are none. All fentanyl-
    related substances encountered to date have been found to have
    potent opioid activity. One of them is 7,000 times more potent
    than morphine.
        However, if Schedule I penalties were removed for FRS
    trafficking, then it would reincentivize their creation and
    significantly weaken the law's most powerful, proactive, and
    preventative effects. There is a time and place for criminal
    justice reform, but FRS scheduling is not it. Some suggest FRS
    scheduling would have a negative impact on research. While
    theoretical, it has been addressed with stakeholder input and
    is supported by the very agencies and organizations
    representing academic scientific research, including the NIH,
    HHS, FDA, and the National Institute of Drug Abuse. The HALT
    Fentanyl Act would significantly loosen restrictions into
    studying all Schedule I substances, not just FRSs, and open up
    promising areas of substance abuse research.
        In conclusion, for the past 6 years, FRS scheduling has
    been Federal policy. As the primary architect of the Wisconsin
    law, I could not be more pleased. In a few short years, the
    creation and distribution of new FRSs has ground to a halt. In
    our battle against fentanyl, the elimination of related
    substances that had previously escaped our scheduling and
    devastated communities across the Nation are surely one bright
    spot, but Congress must take action and permanently close the
    spigot of FRSs. The fact is you can't die from ingesting
    something never created, nor can you be incarcerated for
    trafficking something that does not exist. That's the beauty
    and simplicity of FRS scheduling. Thanks again for this time,
    and I look forward to answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Westlake appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Senator Cornyn. Doctor, I'm going to introduce you, but I
    don't want to get your last name mispronounced. Is it Farfan?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Correct.
        Senator Cornyn. Okay, good. I guessed correctly. I'd be
    happy to hear your opening statement.

         STATEMENT OF CECILIA FARFAN-MENDEZ, PH.D., AFFILIATED
       RESEARCHER, INSTITUTE ON GLOBAL CONFLICT AND COOPERATION,
       UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SAN DIEGO, SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA

        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Thank you. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking
    Member Durbin, and Members of the Committee, thank you for
    conducting this hearing and the opportunity to explain why
    saving lives in North America requires productive engagement
    with Mexico. I appreciate the invitation to participate.
        I am an expert on organized crime and U.S.-Mexico security
    cooperation. As an alumna of the Fulbright program, I am
    convinced that transnational problems require transnational
    solutions. To the families who testified today, I acknowledge
    your grief. There are no actions that can reverse the tragedies
    you have experienced. My testimony today does not seek to
    invalidate yours. On the contrary, it is precisely because I
    have witnessed and collaborated with families on both sides of
    the Border that have lost loved ones to overdoses, homicides,
    and disappearances that I am here to offer what I believe is a
    more helpful and sustainable path forward.
        On January 22, Secretary Rubio stated that America's
    foreign policy must be justified by answering three simple
    questions. Does it make America safer? Does it make America
    stronger? Does it make America more prosperous? As a scholar
    who has dedicated her professional career to studying and
    working toward constructive U.S.-Mexico relations, it is my
    strong professional opinion that the United States can only be
    safer, stronger, and prosperous if its neighbors are afforded
    the same opportunity.
        Suffering on both sides of the Border is inextricably
    linked. The U.S. is facing one of its worst public health
    crises due to the availability of illicitly manufactured
    fentanyl, and Mexico faces its own lethal epidemic, with 70
    percent of homicides perpetrated with a firearm. More than 40
    percent of Americans know someone who has died from an opioid
    overdose. Equally important, homicide is a leading cause of
    death for men ages 25 to 44 and the second cause of death for
    women ages 15 to 24 in Mexico.
        Worryingly, the urgency to save lives is reviving the worst
    policy failures of the War on Drugs. With thousands of lives at
    risk on both sides of the Border, it is urgent that the U.S.
    and Mexico implement policies based on facts. Through their
    public sectors, civil society, and academia, both countries
    have developed robust evidence on how to acquire and maintain
    the health and safety of our communities. Fentanyl and firearms
    trafficking have changed dynamics in criminal markets. But
    these changes are not as simple as prevailing narratives of
    organized crime suggest.
        Even though places like Sinaloa, Mexico, have been
    portrayed as a Shangri-La for criminality, transnational drug
    trafficking in Mexico to the U.S. is not masterminded by three
    men hiding in the mountains. There is no special narco-highway
    connecting the highlands of Sinaloa to the streets of LA or
    Philadelphia. But actors in Mexico and the U.S. that take
    advantage of legal economies for the advancement of illicit
    activities. For example, the most recent data from the U.S.
    Sentencing Commission shows that for Fiscal Year 2023, 86.4
    percent of people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking were U.S.
    citizens.
        Serious policy conversations on addressing mortality caused
    by synthetic drugs cannot be separate from firearms
    trafficking. Low production costs are often cited as a key
    reason suppliers moved away from heroin and into synthetic
    opioids like fentanyl. Overlooked in this conversation is that
    the same has happened with firearms and ammunition. The ease of
    acquiring firearms from the U.S. has lowered the cost of
    perpetrating violence for criminal groups in Mexico.
        Even though there are significant variations as to the
    frequency and ways criminal groups use violence, they all must
    issue credible threats on their ability to perpetrate this
    violence. Their businesses depend on it. The newer and the more
    sophisticated the armament is, then the more credible these
    threats become. Why intimidate potential victims with a rifle
    left over from the Mexican Revolution, when your arsenal can
    include 50-caliber weapons?
        This strategy has paid off for organized crime, including
    those involved in fentanyl trafficking. According to data
    released by the ATF, of the firearms recovered in Mexico that
    were submitted for tracing, more than two-thirds were sourced
    from the U.S.
        Today, 74 percent of Mexicans believe criminal groups have
    more and better weapons than the armed forces. Access to
    illegally trafficked weapons from the U.S. has allowed Mexican
    criminal groups to amass both a tremendous capacity for
    violence and a troubling capacity to intimidate. Simply stated,
    by failing to address firearms trafficking to Mexico, the U.S.
    is subsidizing the operating costs of criminal groups. It is as
    if cartels receive an annual aid package with state-of-the-art
    technology to carry out the crimes this Congress wants to stop.
        Our shared tragedies are two sides of the same coin. The
    silver lining is that there is no secret solution awaiting to
    be discovered. Actions available to Congress like the Stop
    Arming Cartels Act can contribute to stemming the devastating
    effects of this public health crisis and must be implemented
    through U.S.-Mexico security cooperation. Thank you for your
    time, and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Farfan-Mendez appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Senator Cornyn. Sheriff Barnes?

    STATEMENT OF DONALD BARNES, SHERIFF; VICE PRESIDENT OF HOMELAND
    SECURITY, MAJOR COUNTY SHERIFFS OF AMERICA; AND SHERIFF-CORONER
        OF ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA

        Sheriff Barnes. Chairman Cornyn, Ranking Member Durbin,
    thank you for the opportunity to testify before you today. I'm
    here representing the Major County Sheriffs of America, a
    professional law enforcement association of the 100 largest
    sheriffs in the Nation, serving more than one-third of our
    Nation's population. As sheriff of Orange County, I lead an
    agency of more than 4,000 men and women serving 3.1 million
    residents. Orange County consistently ranks as one of the
    safest in the Nation. But like every community, we have felt
    the devastating impacts of the fentanyl crisis.
        The fentanyl epidemic is one of the most pressing public
    safety and public health crises to impact our Nation. In just a
    few short years, nationwide drug-related deaths have tripled, a
    direct correlation to the prevalence of fentanyl. While we saw
    a slight decrease in nationwide fatalities in 2023, the numbers
    remain alarmingly high, with annual deaths still approaching
    100,000 annually. In California, we saw fentanyl deaths
    increase from 239 in 2016 to nearly 7,000 in 2023. Mexico-based
    cartels taking advantage of the crisis at our Border have
    flooded our communities with deadly fentanyl.
        This is evidenced by the drug seizures made by my
    department's investigative teams. Over the past 4 years, these
    teams have seized a total of 1,551 pounds of fentanyl powder
    and over 3 million clandestine-produced fentanyl pills. What's
    even more alarming than the sheer volume is the dramatic
    increase in seizures during that same time period. Since 2021,
    my investigative teams seized 16,278 pills, whereas in 2024
    that number skyrocketed to over 2 million. And that's just my
    agency, alone.
        The fight against the fentanyl epidemic in California is
    incredibly challenging, given our close proximity to the
    Border, national drug trends, and our State's permissive drug
    laws. Proposition 47, passed in 2014, largely decriminalized
    most drug and property crimes. Our attempts to seek action by
    the State legislature largely fell on deaf ears. When we first
    saw the signs of fentanyl 2025, we proposed legislation that
    would enhance penalties for trafficking fentanyl similar to
    trafficking cocaine and heroin. This bill failed, year after
    year after year, while deaths continued to increase. Sadly, in
    some instances our proposal was met with ridicule by those far
    too devoted to extreme anti-incarceration policies. We also
    faced complications due to California sanctuary laws, which
    limits our communication with our Federal partners.
        Despite this grim picture, there is hope. In Orange County,
    we have seen fentanyl deaths fall from a high of 717 in 2021 to
    613 in 2023, while the State continues to rise. This progress
    is a result of our ongoing multi-faceted strategy that focuses
    on both supply and demand for illicit drugs. The strategy
    includes investing dollars in narcotics teams and resources;
    working with the U.S. attorney to prosecute individuals who
    sell drugs that result in the death of another; creating a new,
    innovative drug education program taught in our schools. Since
    2016, deputies who carry naloxone have resulted in over 600
    lives saved within our community. In our jails we have created
    SUD step-down units and have a Medication-Assisted Treatment
    program serving more than 1,300 people every day.
        Congress can help this progress by moving forward many of
    the initiatives authored and supported by Members of this
    Committee. First and foremost, we must firmly schedule fentanyl
    analogues as a Schedule I drug. The House is taking up the HALT
    Fentanyl Act this week. I want to thank Chairman Grassley and
    Members of the Committee for leading this effort in the Senate.
        HIDTA funding increases would be a significant help.
    Funding for HIDTA has remained static over the last 10 years.
    MCSA is grateful that Members of this Committee are
    prioritizing the reauthorization of HIDTA. I look forward to
    working with you to advance legislation like the HIDTA
    Enhancement Act, which would have reauthorized the HIDTA
    program at $333 million annually.
        We need to protect law enforcement tools. MCSA strongly
    opposes legislation that would restrict or eliminate law
    enforcement's access to data necessary to investigate fentanyl
    trafficking organizations. We also advocate for providing law
    enforcement lawful access to encrypted devices, which is
    crucial for identifying those responsible for distributing
    lethal fentanyl.
        Last, MCSA supports bipartisan legislation crucial for
    addressing SUD within the criminal justice system by focusing
    on continuous care, successful reintegration, and, most
    importantly, sustained sobriety post release from our jails.
    I'm honored to be here today, and I'm looking forward to
    answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Sheriff Barnes appears as a
    submission for the record.]
        Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Sheriff. I'll start my round of
    questions, and then we'll turn to Senator Durbin. Mr. Puerta
    and Ms. Norring, I think it's only appropriate that we should
    express our condolences for your loss. You know, when things
    like this happen, I usually try to figure out, well, is there
    any way we can take something terrible and tragic and hopefully
    learn some lessons and make things better and save lives in the
    future? And so thank you for being courageous and telling your
    story. I know it's not easy, but it's very important for people
    across this country to understand how this can happen to them
    and their family.
        And having visited with a number of families in Texas,
    various school districts, I've come to believe that this
    requires a layered approach, maybe starting at the kitchen
    table with awareness of our children to the threat, because
    none of them take these counterfeit drugs knowingly, at least
    knowing that they're able to take their lives--that it contains
    contaminated fentanyl. But I do believe it's going to require
    all of us, from parents, families, school districts, and local
    law enforcement, the State and Federal law enforcement, and
    border security.
        Sheriff Barnes, it's my understanding that most of the
    chemicals that go into fentanyl basically have been traced back
    to China. Is that your understanding, as well?
        Sheriff Barnes. Yes, Senator. There is an issue with
    precursor chemicals transiting from China through our U.S.
    ports and directly through China. Yes.
        Senator Cornyn. And as I understand some of the
    announcements relating to the tariffs that President Trump has
    announced, his administration has said this isn't so much a
    trade policy as it is an anti-fentanyl policy, to finally get
    the Chinese government's attention, to do something about the
    precursors that emanate from that country. But then, as you
    point out, they make their way to Mexico, where the cartels are
    putting them into pill presses and making them look like
    relatively innocuous drugs, only to turn out to be contaminated
    with fentanyl and take the lives of people, unbeknownst to
    them. Do you believe that, with improved border security, we
    can begin to stop some of the flow of the illicit drugs coming
    across the Border, including fentanyl?
        Sheriff Barnes. Yes, Senator. What you describe is a very
    complex system, almost a supply chain, that starts in China,
    using transit going to Mexico, the pill presses. It's not doing
    any one thing--it's doing 12 things simultaneously. So I do
    believe that addressing this issue is much more complicated
    than just any one thing. The HALT Act is a great start. You
    know, when you look at the pill presses pressing pills, that's
    one issue. The border obviously is going to be the most
    significant issue, as we shut down the Border and the pathway
    for those--for illicit fentanyl to make its way back into the
    United States. But it's that and many other things that have to
    take place.
        Senator Cornyn. So, I heard Senator Durbin's statement,
    which I disagree with, that says that the vast majority of the
    fentanyl comes across the ports of entry, transported by
    American citizens. Is there anybody on the panel who subscribes
    to that point of view?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. [Hand is raised.]
        Senator Cornyn. Dr. Farfan? Do you think any one of the 1.7
    million got-aways during the last 4 years have been
    transporting fentanyl?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. One point seven million of----
        Senator Cornyn. Well, during the Biden administration, out
    of the millions of people that were welcomed into the country
    and released, there were 1.7 million that appeared on various
    sensors, cameras and things like that, that evaded law
    enforcement and made their way into the interior of the United
    States. Do you think any one of those 1.7 million individuals
    that were evading law enforcement were transporting fentanyl?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I mean, to restate what I mentioned in
    my testimony, data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission shows
    that 86.4 people sentenced for fentanyl trafficking in Fiscal
    Year 2023 were U.S. citizens.
        Senator Cornyn. And that's not my question.
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I would also add----
        Senator Cornyn. My question is about the people who evaded
    law enforcement. Is it possible that some of them, or maybe
    even many of them, were transporting illicit drugs, including
    fentanyl?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. As someone who studies organized crime,
    that would be a really bad business decision. Drug traffickers
    deal with a lot of----
        Senator Cornyn. Sounds to me like a very profitable
    decision on the part of the cartels, to evade law enforcement
    and to be able to deliver your drugs, your load, into the
    United States, only to make a lot of money from it. Why is that
    a bad business decision?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Because from a business point of view,
    you would prefer to have smugglers who have a legal right to
    entry into the United States than an immigrant who is uncertain
    whether or not he or she is going to cross into the United
    States. So, if you're looking at it from the point of view of,
    will we turn a profit or not in this particular shipment,
    putting your shipment in the hands of an immigrant who does not
    have a legal right to entry into the U.S. is actually a bad
    business decision.
        Senator Cornyn. Sheriff Barnes, do you agree with that?
        Sheriff Barnes. I do not. There's two different facets
    here. You have the trafficking of the narcotic, which is
    oftentimes in large bulk. And our experience in intervention
    and interdiction is those are oftentimes residents of Mexico.
    The distribution of that or sales of it--I think, to Dr.
    Farfan's point, might oftentimes be carried out by U.S.
    citizens and the drug trafficking market. So, it's a
    combination of both. But the vast majority of the large
    quantities coming across, it has been my experience, are being
    conducted by Mexican nationals. The distribution and sales
    inside the continental United States oftentimes is being
    carried out by U.S. citizens.
        Chairman Grassley [presiding]. Thank you. Senator Durbin.
        Senator Durbin. Thank you all for being here. How many of
    you would this be your first time to see the Senate Judiciary
    Committee? Would you raise your hand?
        [Witnesses' hands are raised.]
        Senator Durbin. A few of our witnesses--and others, the
    first time. This is an interesting Committee. It represents the
    spectrum of politics in the United States Senate. We have the
    most Republican Republicans and the most Democratic Democrats
    sitting on this Committee. So, you won't be surprised that many
    times we disagree, and that disagreement sometimes leads to
    good speeches but very few laws. But there was an exception.
    Two years ago, we took up this issue and started talking about
    what we could do to stop the spread of fentanyl and the deadly
    impact it's having on America. And we actually voted, in this
    Committee, on a bipartisan basis, unanimously, for five
    measures that dealt with social media.
        Your point, Mrs. Norring--if Snapchat were a store on the
    corner selling fentanyl-laden Percocets, and it happened one
    time, and they could be sued, that would be the end of the
    story. But we learned through Section 230 that social media
    gets off the hook. Mrs. Norring, you're joining families, I
    understand, that are trying to hold them responsible for your
    son's death and other deaths, as well. I couldn't support you
    more.
        Now, let me tell you what happened. We passed bills in this
    Committee holding Big Tech and social media responsible.
    Unanimously. Now, there are four or five new Members of the
    Committee, but every Member of the Committee 2 years ago voted
    for it. Democrat and Republican, conservative and liberal, all
    voted for the measure. And what happened as a result of that
    combined bipartisan effort? Nothing. Nothing. Speeches. That's
    what happened. We failed, as Democrats in the Majority in the
    Senate, the Republicans failed, as the Majority in the House,
    to pass any measure. There, I said it. Democrats bear
    responsibility and Republicans, as well. We've got to be honest
    about this.
        Why? Why would something as popular and as obvious as that
    fail before the Congress? Well, because there were powerful
    forces that have a lot of money at stake and don't want
    liability, who will piously and publicly say they love this
    measure, it makes all the sense in the world. And then when the
    doors close and they get a chance to speak to Members
    individually, they flip and they take the opposite position,
    and nothing happens.
        Chuck Grassley's my friend. I've gotten in trouble for
    that. But I'm proud of it. We go back a long ways. I went to
    him yesterday and said, this time, you're the Chairman. I'm the
    Ranking Democrat. I'm here to help you pass legislation to do
    something. I'm sick and tired of excuses being made and people
    dying as a result of it. And I think it's time for us, on a
    bipartisan basis, to find things we agree with.
        Now, I don't know where the sources are. I think Dr. Farfan
    makes a valid argument. Sheriff Barnes, I respect very much
    your responsibility in law enforcement and have a different
    point of view. We may never resolve that basic question. But I
    think we can all resolve we don't care where the hell it's
    coming from--we want it to stop. We want to stop it in China,
    we want to stop it in Mexico, we want to stop it at our
    backyards, however it's getting into the United States. So, to
    those who are familiar with this Committee, this is where it
    has to start. We won't agree on every aspect, everything as a
    result of it, but we can agree on some basics that make a
    difference.
        Mrs. Norring, you've testified before about your son and
    the loss of his life. Senator Klobuchar told me that. And I'd
    like to ask you what the families are doing, that you've
    gathered with, to hold Snapchat and others liable?
        Ms. Norring. So, the families and I--Mr. Puerta, Amy
    Neville, sitting behind me--we filed suit against Snapchat. We
    are in the process of making it through the courts, as we
    speak. There's--oh, my God, how many? They have hundreds of
    cases behind ours. For a while, it was looking pretty grim. I
    mean, Snapchat has been immune for so long, and it's now making
    its way through. We just got word that we're going into
    discovery.
        Senator Durbin. Mr. Puerta?
        Mr. Puerta. Yes, sir. It passed on, to Judge Lawrence Riff,
    on January 4 of 2023, I believe----
        Ms. Norring. Yes.
        Mr. Puerta [continuing]. Accepted the lawsuit, and--I'm
    sorry, 2024--not on the basis of free speech but on the basis
    of product design. That went on to the appellate court in
    California, and the appellate court favored--ruled in our favor
    for the lawsuit to go forward. So, right now we are in
    discovery. No other lawsuit against any major social media
    company has gotten as far as ours, sir.
        Senator Durbin. I wish you well. I'll close by saying we're
    dealing with fentanyl and the deadly aspects of that drug, and
    we're also dealing with sexual exploitation, particularly of
    children. And a number of Members here have shown real
    leadership: Senator Blackburn on the Republican side, and
    Senator Blumenthal on the Democratic side, especially. We all
    have bills. We can do this. Hold us responsible. Don't just
    come and leave and think nothing's going to happen. It's our
    job to make sure it does happen and do the right thing for you
    and your families. Thank you very much.
        Chairman Grassley. Yes. And I thank Senator Durbin for
    bringing up our conversation that we had yesterday on the floor
    of the United States Senate, and I suggested to him then--but I
    want our staffs to know--that our staffs should sit down and
    see what can be worked out.
        Senator Durbin. That's good.
        Chairman Grassley. You bet. Now I'll ask questions, and
    then I'll call on Klobuchar.
        Leading up to this hearing, my office received 58 letters
    from grieving families who lost loved ones to fentanyl. I want
    to offer those letters into the record and thank the families
    for writing them. So, without objection, that will be done.
        [The information appears as submissions for the record.]
        Chairman Grassley. One mother wrote, quote, ``Families like
    mine have been sharing our stories of loss to this poison since
    before 2018, hoping to ignite action among our leaders.
    Tragically, despite hundreds of thousands of stories like mine,
    over countless years, we have yet to see a massive, unified
    effort necessary to stop this poisoning of our generations,''
    end of quote. Many of these letters urge Congress to pass the
    legislation that goes by the acronym HALT Fentanyl, which would
    make the class scheduling of fentanyl-related substances very
    permanent. Mr. Puerta, Dr. Westlake, Sheriff Barnes--in that
    order--could you each briefly explain why permanent class
    scheduling is important to tackling this crisis?
        Mr. Puerta. I believe that it'll increase penalties for
    trafficking and distribution. It also will streamline
    prosecution by removing the burden of proving whether a
    particular fentanyl analogue is harmful. It would be illegal by
    default. And it would give authorities greater flexibility, as
    well, to target emerging fentanyl analogues before they flood
    the market.
        Chairman Grassley. Dr. Westlake?
        Mr. Westlake. So, I think it goes back to the whole point
    of me coming up with this idea--was to stop the creation of
    these. So, what this does is it stops them from existing to
    begin with. We've looked at all the possible bioactive
    modifications to the fentanyl molecule and surgically scheduled
    those modifications. And so what it's done--and it's proven to
    be done--so, is it stopped them from existing in the first
    place.
        So, no one's going to jail for them, no one's dying from
    them--because they don't exist. It's the perfect form of
    prevention. There's a lot of disease--with a disease, the best
    place to hit a disease is at the beginning. If you can stop a
    diabetic from becoming diabetic, you know, they're not going to
    have the problems of having their leg amputated or being on
    dialysis later. That's what this does--is this stops the very
    existence. It's one spigot. Illicit fentanyl's a huge fire
    hydrant. This is one spigot, but Congress can turn it off, and
    that's what they should do.
        Chairman Grassley. Thank you. Sheriff Barnes?
        Sheriff Barnes. Chairman Grassley, I'll summarize the two
    previous speakers this way. First, with the Controlled
    Substances Act not including it as an analogue, we saw this
    happen with methamphetamines back in the 90s, where there were
    analogue knockoffs, and it made it very difficult for
    prosecution. Most of our States' laws are tied to the
    Controlled Substances Act, so preclusion of it would eliminate
    the probability of prosecuting somebody for it. And I'll agree
    with the doctor when he said if we include these now, it will
    disincentivize the knockoffs of the analogues, because they
    will be, by default, included, which will solve the previous
    problem of prosecutions at the State level.
        Chairman Grassley. Sheriff Barnes, the Center for Disease
    Control reported that 100,000 Americans died each year from
    drug overdoses. As I've said, 75,000 of those related to
    fentanyl. And that's been at least over the last 4 years. We've
    only recently seen a decline. Do you think that we've got a
    handle on the emergency drug threats? And if not, what do we
    need to do better?
        Sheriff Barnes. Chair Grassley, I don't believe we have a
    handle on it. I think we're finally responding to it. The CDC
    first reported back in 2014, just over 10 years ago, 4 percent
    of the Nation's drug-related deaths were attributed to
    fentanyl. Five years later, that increased tenfold to 40
    percent and almost doubled all over again in the 5 years since.
    We've seen this coming. We've been nonresponsive to it. So, I
    think that we have seen an emergent trend. We have been playing
    defense.
        As I shared earlier, with my response to Senator Cornyn, I
    believe it's not doing any one thing, it's doing a dozen things
    simultaneously that's going to put us in a better position. And
    first and foremost, as much as people don't want to recognize
    it, we have to deal with some--we have to deal with the demand
    side of this issue north of the Border, with our addiction
    crisis in this country, to get people in sobriety, which would
    then deal with the narcotics economy on the supply chain side
    of it by eliminating the need for the narcotics north of the
    Border. I think that's the most important thing that we can do,
    as a country.
        Chairman Grassley. My last question will have to be to Mr.
    Puerta. Thank you for sharing your son's story. I said that
    before, but we can't say it too often. Some folks have said
    that scheduling fentanyl-related substances as a class creates
    a system that over-criminalizes drug crimes. What's your
    response to that?
        Mr. Puerta. I'm Hispanic American. I'm Colombian American.
    And I believe that a lot, if not the grand majority, of the
    children who are dying today--The New England Journal of
    Medicine came out with a report in January of 2024, and it came
    to the conclusion that in 2020 we were losing 22 nonaddicted
    children in the United States of America, per week, between the
    ages of 14 and 18 years of age, mostly driven by illicit
    fentanyl pills that were deceptively sold to them. Are we to
    stand back and not do anything because we're going to over-
    criminalize this?
        Every time I get up in the morning, I look in the mirror. I
    see a brown man. But I see an American man, as well, and I see
    that the injustice--also, this crisis is decimating, decimating
    minorities, as well. This does not discriminate on your age. It
    doesn't discriminate your race. It doesn't discriminate your
    religion, your socioeconomic status. It doesn't discriminate.
    It's taking everyone by storm. And we, as a Nation, have to
    come together, and we have to do something to stop this.
        In 2020, with COVID-19, we all knew that we had to stand 6
    feet away from each other, that we had to wash our hands, and
    we had to wear a mask over our faces. Why does the American
    public not know about this crisis that is a national security
    crisis, as well, sir? We have a lot to do, but I'm telling you
    right now, this is taking everyone by storm, and something has
    to be done.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Norring, I
    think everyone was touched by your story and your bravery for
    coming forward. I've been honored to get to know you, and I
    want to thank you for everything that you've done. As you said,
    all the hopes and dreams we as parents had for Devin were
    erased in the blink of an eye, and no mom should have to bury
    their kid. Those were your words, and I know the words of all
    of your friends there, that stand there to support you and have
    had their own pain. All he did was buy a pill off Snapchat,
    thought it was a Percocet.
        You were there for that testimony with the Tech executives,
    and there's a bunch of us here that have had some, you know,
    battle wounds going after them, when we just want to put some
    sensible rules in place or get rid of those legal protections
    that they have, that other companies do not have, as you so
    well pointed out--but no wounds compared to what you have. You
    heard their testimony back then, in January 2024. Do you think
    the social media companies are doing enough to stop the sale of
    drugs to kids online?
        Ms. Norring. I do not think that they are doing enough. In
    fact, it's still continuing. I was introduced to two new
    families just last week, from Minnesota, both with ties to
    fentanyl, with their children's passing. So, no, they're not
    doing enough. They could be doing more. I was just informed
    that Evan Spiegel is in support of the Cooper Davis and Devin
    Norring Act, and I must ask, then, if you are in such support
    of it--all these companies are in support of the Kids Online
    Safety Act--why aren't they implementing those features and
    doing the job now? Why do we have to come before Congress and
    make--have you make them do that?
        Senator Klobuchar. Good point. Thank you. Mr. Puerta, do
    you think we should get rid of or reform Section 230 in some
    way, just to make this very clear?
        Mr. Puerta. Absolutely, Senator Klobuchar. In 1996, as we
    all know, this legislative body came up with the Section 230(c)
    of the Communications Decency Act. And what it was meant to do
    was to protect free speech. But what's happening right now
    cannot be free speech, when you have a drug dealer selling
    illicit fentanyl to unsuspecting children. That's not free
    speech. Or a grown man sending unwarranted pictures to young
    ladies, sexual exploitation. This is not free speech. This is
    criminal behavior, and like Ms. Norring said, if it's criminal,
    if it's a criminal act in the real world, then it should be, as
    well, in the social media world.
        Senator Klobuchar. So, you're looking for that reform,
    which also I appreciate you bringing up. Senator Cruz and I
    have this TAKE IT DOWN Act. There's a number of other bills
    involving pornography, as well. Sheriff Barnes, do you agree
    that we should--thank you for your testimony and being here.
    Funding, as we look into this next year--funding for law
    enforcement--do you think that that is important, to take on
    this fentanyl crisis, as well as the HIDTA program that helps
    your deputies get fentanyl off the streets?
        Sheriff Barnes. Senator, yes. Thank you for that question.
    The HIDTA funding has been stagnant, stale for the last 10
    years, hasn't grown. If you look at the time value of money,
    it's about a one-third reduction over the last 10 years. And
    our costs have gone up, so it's about 50 cents on the dollar.
    It's not a fully funded program. My HIDTA program is funded at
    about one-sixth of the costs that we put into it, and mostly
    it's subsidized through my investment of stabilizing that, as
    other municipal agencies have withdrawn personnel. So, yes, I
    think at this, the Nation's worst time in history, we have to
    reinvest those moneys. We have to look at the use of those
    moneys, and I think we have to look at what I call super-HIDTA.
    The original intent of the gateway HIDTA is to invest on the
    greatest offense, which is our border HIDTAs, and stop as much
    of the drugs as we can at the Border, before they make it into
    the continental United States.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. Dr. Westlake, why does class-
    wide scheduling reduce the incentives for drug cartels to
    create new fentanyl variants?
        Mr. Westlake. So, the incentives were there before, because
    when they initially created these without--under the normal
    Controlled Substances Act, they were legal, so they could
    modify it. Instead of putting an ethyl group in, you could put
    a methyl group in. It's a legal substance. I was on the
    Controlled Substances Board in Wisconsin in 2015. We had nine
    different fentanyl variants, fentanyl-related substances that
    were killing people. We could schedule them immediately, and
    then they were illegal.
        And when you schedule them and make them illegal, there's
    no incentive for them to be created anymore. And there's a
    cookbook of changes that you can do easily, look up the
    research to find what different chemicals to use. So it
    literally just stops the incentive. It doesn't stop illicit
    fentanyl incentive, but it closes the spigot of fentanyl-
    related substances.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. One last point, Ms. Norring,
    and we'll talk more in this Committee. I am so pleased that
    Senator Grassley and Durbin will lead this together on some of
    the social media issues that go way beyond the ones we've
    talked about now. But you've also embarked on an education
    campaign, along with a lot of our sheriffs in Minnesota, that I
    think has been pretty effective: going back in the schools with
    ``One Pill Can Kill.'' Ten seconds on that, and I'm out of
    time.
        Ms. Norring. We have to do it, because nobody else is doing
    it. It falls back on us. If we sit by and say nothing, children
    continue to die. So, we feel it's our obligation to get out
    there, educate our community and the children, because, as--
    mentioned, the conversation really begins at home. It really
    has to begin at home.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you.
        Ms. Norring. Thank you.
        Chairman Grassley. Senator Lee.
        Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all of you
    for being here and sharing your insights today. The fentanyl
    crisis has infiltrated our homes, our schools, our communities,
    our workplaces, taking lives and destroying lives at an
    unprecedented rate. In Utah, fentanyl-related deaths are
    rising, and they've become a devastating reality for far too
    many families. Seems everyone knows someone--and in Utah, in
    many cases, almost everyone is related to someone--who has been
    impacted adversely, if not lost their life, due to this crisis.
        From 2014 through 2023, deaths involving fentanyl surged by
    a staggering 116 percent. In 2023 alone, over 600 times, in
    Utah, someone returned home to find their son, their daughter,
    their sibling, their parent had lost their life due to a tragic
    opioid overdose. This marks a dramatic increase from just 23
    deaths in 2014. Now, in 2023, Utah set a record for the most
    fentanyl pills seized in a year. Then, by the very next year,
    just 6 months into the year, by July of 2024, the DEA's Rocky
    Mountain Field Division had already confiscated well in excess
    of that, close to 800,000 pills, surpassing the entire year,
    record-breaking year, of 2023, which recorded 664,200 pills in
    just 6 months.
        The sharp increase in fentanyl-related deaths has
    significantly outpaced the decline that we've seen in deaths
    from prescription opioids. So, we took all these steps as the
    crisis emerged as significant, you know, roughly a decade or
    so, and then all of a sudden we've seen the number of deaths
    from the nonprescription-related drugs exceeding those. The
    number of fentanyl-related deaths more than doubled between
    2019 and 2020 alone, and that trend has only gotten worse since
    then.
        The victims of this deadly scourge include our loved ones,
    our neighbors, our friends. Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring, thank
    you for being with us today, in particular, and for sharing
    your testimonies, and deeply sorry for your loss. No parent
    should ever have to face that heartbreak, and heartbroken for
    you, that you have.
        President Trump has prioritized securing our borders and
    prosecuting violent gang members who traffic fentanyl into our
    country and throughout our communities, and Congress--I hope we
    can stand with him in his effort to make America safe again.
    Sheriff Barnes, I'd like to start with you. From October 2023
    to October 2024, officials seized roughly 22,000 pounds of
    fentanyl at U.S. ports, U.S. ports of entry, equaling nearly
    1.1 million doses. Now, according to the DEA, ingesting just 2
    milligrams of fentanyl can be fatal. Federal officials estimate
    that, at most, 10 percent of fentanyl crossing from Mexico is
    actually caught. Do you believe the Biden administration's open
    border policies contributed to that rapid increase of fentanyl
    entering the United States illegally? And, if so, what can be
    done to reverse that now?
        Sheriff Barnes. Senator, unequivocally, the crisis at the
    Border that allowed the drug trafficking organizations, the
    cartels, opened a gateway, and they exposed our weaknesses and
    used it against us. So, yes, the open border policy undoubtedly
    resulted in harms to this country through the trafficking of
    not just fentanyl but human trafficking and other things that
    put us at risk, not to mention the 1.4 million got-aways that
    we have no idea who they are. There's so much greater risks
    beyond fentanyl that were created as a result of the open
    border policies.
        Senator Lee. Right. I appreciate what you've done in Orange
    County. It's sparked the creation of all kinds of memes that
    are, in fact, flattering of your county, of the efforts that
    you have undertaken there--memes suggesting, for example, that
    when people cross into your county, they're sometimes shocked
    to learn the extent to which you're willing to enforce the law.
    And yet California law, in some meaningful ways, has impeded
    your ability to enforce the law and make Californians safer.
    What can you tell us about that and how sanctuary jurisdictions
    are adversely affecting your work?
        Sheriff Barnes. Well, first, as far as laws, in 2014 we had
    Prop 47 passed. We just had Prop 36 pass, which reversed a lot
    of the Prop 47 impacts. We're already seeing incarceration
    rates go up, which is on repetitive crime, so we're seeing some
    positive results there with accountability being restored back
    into California. Regarding the issues--your second question was
    specific to immigration----
        Senator Lee. Sanctuary jurisdictions and California law,
    whether----
        Sheriff Barnes. We--I can speak for myself. I cooperate
    with our Federal partners to the extent allowable by law. I
    believe those are creating harms by restricting our ability to
    communicate. I have to release people back into our communities
    that reoffend, to come right back. I do not believe they should
    be allowed to do that. I would support changing that--challenge
    that law and give us the ability to cooperate with our Federal
    partners.
        Senator Lee. Thank you.
        Chairman Grassley. Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to
    thank you for having this hearing, and the Ranking Member, as
    well. This cause should unite us across the aisle, and I think
    today's hearing reflects that kind of bipartisan support for
    stronger measures to stop social media from spreading and
    selling and distributing fentanyl and other toxic chemicals.
    And I've been pleased to work across the aisle with Senator
    Blackburn on the Kids Online Safety bill, which would
    dramatically and significantly reduce the threat of these
    drugs.
        And we're going to be reintroducing that bill, I hope again
    with the kind of support that was reflected in the 91-to-3 vote
    in the United States Senate, supporting that bill. Been pleased
    to work with Senator Cruz and Senator Graham on measures that
    would reduce that threat of social media--and others on the
    Committee, the Ranking Member, and yourself.
        I want to raise an issue first that I think is tremendously
    relevant to this topic, because it indicates a diminution, an
    undercutting of law enforcement, which is the mass purges that
    are taking place among the ranks of our FBI. There's no denying
    that FBI agents have been fired, have been suspended, and
    otherwise disciplined for assignments that they took, on
    orders, in connection with certain criminal investigations.
    Those massive purges are directly contrary to the assurances we
    were given by Kash Patel.
        He said to us, when I asked him directly, pointedly, all
    FBI employees will be protected against political retribution.
    This retribution undermines enforcement by the FBI of drug
    cases and terrorism and other criminal cases. I ask, Mr.
    Chairman, that we call back Kash Patel to explain how he could
    deny that there would be political retribution when, the next
    day, in fact, these massive purges began.
        Likewise, Mr. Chairman, I'm asking questions about the
    reassignment, apparently, of AUSAs--assistant U.S. attorneys,
    from drug cases to immigration cases. We need them on the front
    lines, prosecuting drug cases. We need FBI agents on the front
    line. We can all agree, I think, on a bipartisan basis, that
    assistant U.S. attorneys and other Federal prosecutors ought to
    be at the tip of the spear and that this reassignment poses a
    threat to law enforcement of exactly the prohibitions and the
    dangers that bring us here today. And I hope that we can unite
    around that cause--bring back Kash Patel for a second hearing
    and jointly do our oversight, which we are mandated to do, on
    this topic.
        I want to thank our witnesses. Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, you
    have suffered losses that are unspeakable. And all of you who
    are so deeply engaged, hands on--the story about the body bag,
    Mr. Westlake, I think I will always remember. I would like to
    ask Ms. Norring and Mr. Puerta about the Kids Online Safety
    bill and whether you believe that our leadership here in the
    Senate and, most importantly, in the House--which was
    responsible for stopping it after the 91-to-3 vote here in the
    Senate--should support this legislation, Kids Online Safety
    Act, which had such strong bipartisan backing here in the
    United States Senate. Will it make a difference? Do you think
    the House leadership ought to support it?
        Ms. Norring. Thank you for that question, Senator
    Blumenthal. I firmly believe that the House should support it.
    Ninety-one to three, coming out of this Senate body, is
    something that is so unheard of, and it happened on my birthday
    last year. It was the first time in years I'd ever felt some
    sort of peace. I finally felt hopeful that something was going
    to be done to protect our children. And to see it fail in the
    House, not even get out of the Committee--it's absurd, because
    it's putting more children at harm. Not just from fentanyl but
    all the other harms that are out there. So, I thank you for
    your continued support on this bill.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Mr. Puerta?
        Mr. Puerta. A lot of the social media companies are driving
    these harmful algorithms to our children, and many nefarious
    actors are taking advantage of that. And the Act does exactly
    that. The Kids Online Safety Act is to try to protect them from
    all of this nefarious activity and these harmful algorithms
    that are reaching them on a daily basis. So, yes, I absolutely
    back that bill and back you in anything that we can do to try
    to get it over the finish line.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
        Chairman Grassley. Before I call on Senator Cruz--when Cruz
    is done, I'm going to leave for another meeting. Senator Britt
    is going to take over. So if you'd come over here and sit now,
    I'd appreciate it. Senator Cruz.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman--soon-to-be Madam
    Chairman, thank you for hosting this very important debate and
    this very important hearing. The American people in November
    issued a clear and unequivocal mandate: The open borders we've
    had for the last 4 years must be closed. We can no longer allow
    criminals and cartels and gang members and deadly drugs to
    stream across our Border. And President Trump has been working
    every day since he was sworn in to keep his promise to secure
    the Border. He declared a national emergency on the Southern
    Border. He reinstated the Remain in Mexico policy. And, just
    yesterday, President Trump negotiated that Mexico will station
    10,000 troops at the Southern Border, to help stop the flow of
    fentanyl into the United States. President Trump is doing his
    part to meet the mandate from the voters.
        We also, in Congress, must do our part to meet that
    mandate. That's why I hope that this Committee supports the
    HALT Fentanyl Act, an Act to permanently classify fentanyl-
    related substances as Schedule I under the Controlled
    Substances Act. Fentanyl and its analogues are extraordinarily
    powerful and extraordinarily destructive. Congress and the
    American people don't talk enough about fentanyl's
    dangerousness. So, I'm going to talk a little bit about that.
        Dr. Westlake, you are an emergency room physician. How much
    fentanyl does it take to kill an adult human being?
        Mr. Westlake. Well, this is 2,000--enough to kill 2,000
    people, so it's 4 to 5 grains of sand is a lethal dose for an
    opioid-naive patient.
        [Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
    record.]
        Senator Cruz. Two milligrams----
        Mr. Westlake. Yes.
        Senator Cruz. Is what it takes. You see on this photograph
    a penny. We all know the size of a penny. And those couple of
    flakes there are enough to kill an adult human being. Dr.
    Westlake, last year approximately how many people died due to
    fentanyl overdoses?
        Mr. Westlake. I believe it was around 70,000.
        [Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
    record.]
        Senator Cruz. This means, on average, 6,250 died every
    single month due to fentanyl. And it's a number that,
    tragically, has skyrocketed during the Biden-Harris years.
    Sheriff Barnes, as a law enforcement professional on the front
    lines of the battle with fentanyl, can I ask you how many
    pounds of fentanyl were seized by Customs and Border Patrol at
    the Border last year?
        Sheriff Barnes. Senator, unfortunately I can't answer that.
    I can answer my organization, but I know it was a lot and
    growing.
        Senator Cruz. It was 2,250 pounds of fentanyl. An
    astronomical figure.
        And let's actually--I want to put this into context. This
    packet of Sweet'N Low--this packet, if it were full of
    fentanyl, could kill 500 people. Now take a look at this
    container. It's a container we're all familiar with. If this
    were full of fentanyl, it could kill 368,500 people. That's
    more than the entire population of Corpus Christi, Texas, or
    Lubbock, Texas.
        Now let's look at another pack--something, again, all of us
    likely have in our kitchen. This single bag of sugar, if it
    were filled with fentanyl, could kill 905,000 people. Almost a
    million people. This single bag could take out the entire
    population of Austin, Texas, the capital of my home State. Now
    imagine 562 of these bags. That's how much fentanyl came into
    the United States of America in a single month. And how many
    lethal doses of fentanyl is in 562 bags, what came in, in a
    single month, last year? Five hundred and ten million lethal
    doses. In 1 month, more fentanyl came into America than would
    be needed to kill every single man, woman, and child in the
    United States. This is a crisis we have to solve.
        Mr. Puerta, Ms. Norring, thank you both for being here.
    Thank you for your courage. I will say, as the father of two
    teenage girls, you've lived a nightmare that every parent is
    terrified of. What I would ask is, what would you say to
    parents at home? What do parents at home need to know about
    this? What do teenagers and kids at home need to know about the
    dangers of fentanyl?
        Mr. Puerta. If you don't think this can happen to you, I'm
    sorry, but you're--I'm very sorry, but you're very sorely
    mistaken. This is taking everybody by storm. That's what I
    would tell every single parent. Due to the stigma of addiction
    and overdose, though, most people think that this could not
    affect their family because either they don't have somebody
    who's addicted to drugs in their family or somebody who's using
    drugs on a recreational basis.
        But children make mistakes. I do not condone my son Daniel
    wanting to self-medicate during the height of the pandemic for
    whatever was happening in his head. I do not condone it. He
    made a mistake, and the price that he paid was his life.
    Children are supposed to make mistakes but not die from them.
    Period. And that's what's happening every single day--22 times
    a week, in the United States of America. We have to stop this.
        Senator Cruz. Amen. Ms. Norring?
        Ms. Norring. I echo the same thing. You know, that old
    saying, ``Not my kid,'' take that out of your vocabulary,
    because it could very well be your kid. We had every
    conversation with our children about addiction, because
    unfortunately on both sides of our family we have members that
    suffer from SUD. But nobody, at the time, was talking about
    this crisis. So I feel robbed of a conversation I could've had
    with my son that could've saved his life. So, take that out of
    your vocabulary. This very well could happen, and it can very
    well happen.
        These dealers are on Snapchat--all platforms, every single
    one of them. And we've reported them. I know Mr. Puerta's
    reported them. And 90--I shouldn't put a number out there, but
    the majority of the time, it comes back as, this does not
    violate our standards. So, monitor your children's social media
    accounts. Have the conversation. It could save your child's
    life.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you for----
        Ms. Norring. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Cruz [continuing]. Your courage. Thank you.
        Senator Britt [presiding]. Mr. Schiff.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you all for being here, and I just
    want to express my heartbreak at hearing about the loss of your
    sons. I can't imagine what you've gone through. And like every
    parent of college-aged kids or high-school-aged kids, I've had
    those conversations with my kids, and I'm grateful that you're
    here and willing to share experience, which it's so important
    for us to hear.
        I have a couple questions. Doctor, I want to ask you--
    because one of the concerns I heard about the bill when it was
    in the House was a concern that it could inhibit research. You
    made a comment, but you made it too quickly for me to catch,
    about NIH's view or others. Is there a need to have language to
    make sure that the research can go on. Or do you feel that is a
    non-issue for some reason?
        Mr. Westlake. No, I--so, this is a compromise bill. The
    initial language that came out was just pure scheduling
    language. And then when there was concerns that it could impact
    research negatively, the scheduling--or the research component
    was added, and that was supported through the first Trump ONDCP
    and then through the Biden ONDCP. The research accommodations
    that were reached significantly open up all Schedule I
    research, not just into fentanyl-related substances but into
    all Schedule I, so--and that's why they support it: NIH, HHS,
    FDA----
        Senator Schiff. I see. So, that's been incorporated into a
    new version of the bill?
        Mr. Westlake. Correct, in the HALT Fentanyl--yes, in the--
    --
        Senator Schiff. Got you.
        Mr. Westlake. It is in the HALT Fentanyl bill.
        Senator Schiff. Okay. Thank you. That's----
        Mr. Westlake. Yes, sir.
        Senator Schiff [continuing]. Very helpful. And if I could
    ask you, Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring, what do you think is
    working, in terms of trying to educate families, young people?
    And what more do we need to do? And I fully agree with the need
    to make sure that the companies that are using their platforms
    or allowing their platforms to be used need to be held liable
    and accountable. But what do you think is working in terms of
    educating both families but also schools and others about how
    they should incorporate this into their teaching and have the
    supplies on hand necessary to deal with emergencies?
        Mr. Puerta. At Stop the VOID, our organization, along with
    Project Facing Fentanyl, we have a documentary called, ``Dead
    on Arrival.'' You can find it at stopthevoid.org. It's a 22-
    minute documentary that we use in junior high schools and in
    high schools across this Nation. In California, all of Orange
    County high schools have done it, with Amy Neville presenting
    the documentary.
        I think education awareness is key in abating these
    senseless drug deaths, because these kids just don't know. They
    don't know what they're ingesting. They're dying because
    they've been deceptively sold a counterfeit pill that they
    think is a pharmaceutical grade oxycodone, for example, and it
    turns out that it's a fake pill, and they end up dying, first
    time used. Education awareness is working, but we're just a
    small organization. We need to do this nationwide.
        Mr. Steve Filson says it all the time: With COVID-19, we
    all knew that we had to wash our hands and have a mask over our
    faces. Why, on the national or on the Federal level--why have
    we not had a PSA campaign of sorts, of warning all parents and
    children of the impending danger of illicit--or, should I say,
    recreational drug use? I think that's very key, because again,
    due to the stigma of addiction and overdose, most kids and most
    parents don't understand the problem of what it is.
        I also feel that interdiction is helping a lot, as well as
    naloxone. This is a three-pronged approach: education
    awareness, interdiction, and naloxone widely available.
    Naloxone on college campuses and high schools, I think, is
    really helping out the situation a little bit, but we need to
    do a lot more.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you. Ms. Norring?
        Ms. Norring. I agree. The education and awareness piece is
    huge, but we face roadblocks all the time with schools that
    don't want us to come into their schools because they feel that
    we may basically, in a sense, give kids the idea that it's okay
    to go do these drugs. And it's so ridiculous. We've shown
    ``Dead on Arrival.'' I'm a former member of VOID--so we do
    that, oftentime. We also show the ``Come Back Home'' film that
    the Alexander Neville Foundation produced, which is told from
    the youth preventative side of things. And I think when you
    hear from the youth directly on this crisis, that is so
    impactful.
        We also pride ourselves on going out into the community,
    doing community events, bringing the community together, doing
    naloxone trainings, getting that information out there, really
    reducing the stigma of this crisis, because I say
    ``poisoning''--while so many say overdose. You will never hear
    me say that my son overdosed, because my son was poisoned. I
    know that if my son knew that that pill was going to take his
    life, he would have never taken it. Like Senator Klobuchar
    said, all of my hopes and dreams for him and his future are
    gone. But not only that, his dreams erased in the blink of an
    eye.
        So--and I mirror your sentiment. Our Government really
    needs to step up and start taking the handle on this, because
    we're just parents, out there. We're spending a lot of money
    out of our pockets. Most of us don't qualify for public grants
    or anything like that. Why don't we have the campaign? Kids are
    dying. You would think that that would be a priority. And yet,
    it's us out there doing the work. And we will do it, because
    that means potentially a child's life is saved. Thank you.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you both, again, for your testimony,
    and to all the parents who are here representing their
    children, I want to thank you for your advocacy. Really
    important for us to see you and to hear you, and thank you for
    your testimony. I yield back.
        Senator Britt. Couldn't agree more. I'd like to enter into
    the record a letter of support from nine organizations that
    represent the medical community, led by the American Society of
    Neurosurgeons. Their letter commends our bipartisan leadership
    in addressing the fentanyl epidemic and notes that the
    temporary schedule classification is not sustainable. They note
    that, quote, ``continually revisiting its classification
    creates confusion about the dangers of these substances and
    hampers efforts to address the crisis comprehensively,'' end
    quote. I ask unanimous consent that the entirety of their
    letter be entered into the record. Thank you.
        [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
        Senator Britt. Thank you. Senator Hawley.
        Senator Hawley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks to all of
    the witnesses for being here. Ms. Norring and Mr. Puerta, I
    want to particularly thank you and thank other parents who I
    think are in the room today. You've highlighted the true crisis
    that we're facing. You know, in my home State of Missouri, in
    2022 alone, child fatalities from fentanyl doubled, just in
    2022. Deaths for children under the age of 5 increased by more
    than 500 percent in my State, and fentanyl is our leading cause
    of death now in the State of Missouri. So, the fates that your
    families have endured are being replicated all over my State,
    as well, and that's really a wake-up call, I think, for this
    body to do something.
        And we absolutely do need to seal the Border against those
    who would traffic illicit drugs into this country, and we need
    to prosecute those who are doing it. But I want to zero in on
    something that you both talked about, you in particular, Ms.
    Norring, where your own children or your child was exposed to
    these illegal drugs, namely Snapchat and social media
    platforms. You said a second ago that you have repeatedly
    reported drug dealers and other illicit posts on social media
    platforms, using the platforms' own reporting rules, and I
    think what you said is, is that most of the time--most of the
    time, the vast majority of the time, the answer you get back
    is, well, this is a valid account or they otherwise can't do
    anything. Did I hear that correctly, Ms. Norring?
        Ms. Norring. That is correct, Senator Hawley.
        Senator Hawley. So, here you're trying to follow the rules
    that these companies have set up. They say, oh, well, we'll
    deal with the problem if you just report it. You and other
    parents--and I see parents behind you who are nodding--you're
    out there reporting, reporting, reporting. They're not doing
    anything. And I noticed that you also--I've read your written
    testimony. You had a meeting with Snapchat executives--I think
    you were there for that, too, Mr. Puerta--in the spring of
    2021.
        Mr. Puerta. That's correct.
        Senator Hawley. And they told you--just walk us through
    that, Ms. Norring, if you would. You reported to them what was
    going on, on their own platform, and they told you what,
    exactly?
        Ms. Norring. The first three things out of their mouth was,
    we had no idea this was happening on our platform; you can't
    sue us, because we're protected under Section 230; and as
    parents you should've been monitoring your children better. My
    son was 19 when he died. Number one, how do you monitor an
    adult? Number two, how do you monitor a child on an app in
    which the whole allure to these kids is the fact that the
    messages disappear? And that was something that I brought up to
    their attention, and they really had no response. They don't
    care.
        Senator Hawley. They don't care, and I think it's
    interesting they pointed out to you that you can't sue them.
    What do you think one of the reasons is that they don't really
    change? I mean, here you are--you're meeting with them. You're
    reporting these incidents. You're reporting this illicit
    activity on their platform. They're not doing anything about
    it. I mean, do you have a guess as to why they don't really
    ever change their behavior?
        Ms. Norring. There's no incentive to. And even with the in-
    app reporting feature, that was something that they pointed out
    to us, like we should've known that this existed. We had no
    idea that existed, but I can tell you in the weeks and the
    months and the years after my son passed, multiple teens in our
    town reported the dealers that allegedly harmed my son, and all
    that would happen is, they would take down the account.
        These dealers would go and get a new burner phone, set up a
    new account. Snapchat told us they had IP blockers and Wi-Fi
    blockers to recognize the devices. These dealers are buying
    burner phones. They're going to--I don't know--your coffee
    shop, your school. They're going to the library and setting up
    a new account. Our dealers in the community laughed at
    Snapchat. They're like, ha ha, they tried to bamboozle us.
    We're back, baby. Seriously.
        Senator Hawley. I want to just highlight what you just
    said, because I want everybody who's watching this and I want
    every Member of this Committee and every Member of the Senate
    to understand what you just said, which is that the social
    media platforms don't change because they don't have any
    incentive. Which is a very polite way of saying there's no
    hammer on these people. They do whatever they want to do
    because they know nobody can effectively hold them accountable.
    And they really let the mask slip when you two walked into
    their offices and told them that they had participated in the
    killing of your children--because that's what happened.
        They made money off of it, effectively, because they're
    making billions of dollars on their social media platforms.
    They're killing our kids. They're exposing them to all kinds of
    ungodly material, and they won't do anything about it because
    we can't hold them accountable. And I just want to say to
    Members of this body, that has got to change. It is time to
    give parents the right to sue these platforms. No company in
    America has the liability shield that these companies have.
    They can do whatever they want to our kids, and we can't do
    anything about it.
        And I say that as the father of three young children. I'm
    terrified of what my kids might find on social media, for the
    reasons that you've given today. But as a parent, I can't do a
    thing about it, if these companies decide to exploit my
    children. And it is time for that to change. And we know how to
    change it. The way to change it is, give the parents in this
    country the right to get into court. Open the courthouse doors
    and allow them to sue these companies.
        [Hearing attendees applaud.]
        Senator Hawley. It's time. And until this body takes that
    action, I just have to say, almost nothing else we do is really
    serious. You can try to fine them, they don't care. You can
    change the rules on reporting, they'll evade it. You can slap
    them on the wrist, they won't do anything. Until plaintiffs can
    get into court, nothing will change. And so I will introduce
    legislation this Congress to allow parents--to allow you to go
    to court and sue these companies. And I call on every Member of
    this Committee and every Member of this body to support this
    effort to get justice for your children. Thank you for being
    here today. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Senator Britt. Senator Padilla.
        Senator Padilla. Thank you, Madam Chair. Colleagues, I so
    much appreciate the opportunity to focus on this crisis today,
    with one caveat. I think it's a little disappointing to
    continue to stick to an inaccurate narrative that the fentanyl
    crisis in America is primarily an immigration problem. The
    fentanyl crisis in America is a health crisis. It is a public
    safety crisis. And, as we've heard from testimonials today,
    it's a life-and-death crisis.
        But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of
    fentanyl that is smuggled into the United States is brought in
    through legal ports of entry, mind you, not between ports of
    entry but through legal ports of entry, by primarily United
    States citizens. Don't just take my word for it. Look at CBP
    data. Now, I know it's been called into question earlier--the
    accuracy of it. But even if it was off by half, we're looking
    at half and half.
        Now, don't mistake my words here--condoning that anybody
    attempting to come into the United States unlawfully that
    happens to be carrying fentanyl should be off the hook. I
    disagree. We should clamp down on them. But if data is
    important for driving policy decisions and informing strategic
    actions, let's look at the facts. Eighty percent plus of the
    fentanyl intercepted at the Border is being brought in through
    ports of entry by United States citizens. So, again, folks
    coming through unlawfully--I'm not saying ignore them, but
    let's not ignore where the concentration of the problem is.
        I won't ask the witnesses today what recommendations or
    strategies that we should be implementing through the
    Department of Justice, through the Department of Homeland
    Security. I think we're going to have opportunities for other
    DOJ officials in the coming days and weeks, to do that, and we
    should. But I will suggest, colleagues, that the recent changes
    by the administration at the Department of Justice that have
    resulted in the shifting of critical resources--including from
    the FBI, including from the DEA, including the ATF--towards
    immigration enforcement, which, be clear, be honest with
    ourselves and the public, is not exclusive to violent
    criminals. It's everybody. Minor offenses, people who haven't
    committed any offense other than--and as folks--well, if they
    came illegally, then they're criminals. Horrible, horrible way
    to think about it. It's doing a disservice to our efforts to
    crack down on the fentanyl crisis and other illicit drugs that
    are hurting and killing so many of our kids.
        My first question. Dr. Farfan-Mendez, can you explain how
    diverting law enforcement resources toward immigration
    enforcement could actually undermine fentanyl investigations
    and make it harder to disrupt trafficking networks?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. So, the U.S. has a mechanism called the
    Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force, and this task
    force is made up of several agencies--Department of Justice,
    Homeland Security, Department of Labor, the U.S. Postal
    Service, and a number of others--the State Department is also
    included there, putting together criminal investigations that
    take down trafficking networks. It is a long process. It takes
    time. It takes interagency coordination. In the best of cases,
    it also takes international cooperation, including with Mexico.
        And so when you distract those resources and allocate them
    in another task--in this case, for instance, immigration
    enforcement--effectively what you are doing is undermining
    long-term efforts to try to precisely bring criminal groups to
    justice. And so there is--in the world that we have, of limited
    resources, when you take away from one area, you will
    definitely impact another, and so there is definitely a concern
    of weakening this Organized Crime Enforcement Task Force.
        Senator Padilla. And it's okay if you don't know the answer
    to the following question, but in case you do, I understand
    that there's only one legal gun store in Mexico?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Correct. Mexico only has one legal gun
    store.
        Senator Padilla. Okay. So, for all of my colleagues who,
    for years and years, have talked about clamping down on the
    cartels, the criminal organizations that are arming themselves
    with weapons trafficked from the United States, folks,
    according to ATF data--again, I'm not sorry for relying on our
    own data--up to 500,000 U.S.-sourced firearms are trafficked
    into Mexico every year, with 70 percent of crime guns recovered
    in Mexico tracing back to the United States. Dr. Farfan-Mendez,
    Mexican President Sheinbaum has stated that President Trump
    agreed to work on reducing the flow of guns into Mexico as part
    of yesterday's deal to delay the tariffs for a month. What
    concrete steps should the U.S. take to uphold that commitment?
        Senator Britt. And ma'am, if you can keep your answer
    short? We're out of time. Thank you so much.
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Absolutely. I hear this Committee when
    you say that you want to save lives of American children, and
    Americans in general. And what I say to you is, the fentanyl
    market is not an isolated illicit market. It's very much linked
    to the firearms trafficking market. And so in that conversation
    that President Sheinbaum and President Trump had, I think for
    the U.S. to seriously address fentanyl, the conversation also
    has to be about how you prevent criminal groups to have the
    firepower that make addressing supply on the Mexican side
    incredibly difficult. As I say, these are shared tragedies both
    for Mexico and the U.S. And so, if the crime is transnational,
    shouldn't the solution also be transnational?
        Senator Padilla. Very well said. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. I do want to address, before we
    move to our next Senator, the argument that U.S. citizens bring
    the most fentanyl into the United States, not illegal
    immigrants. It has been pointed to today some incomplete
    seizure and arrest statistics that support that argument. So,
    with the wide open border policies of the Biden-Harris
    administration over the last 4 years, we do not know the full
    scale of drugs smuggled into this Nation. The prosecution's
    statistics only account for individuals that were actually
    caught, prosecuted, and sentenced--not criminals who managed to
    actually evade detection.
        The Washington Post says that Federal officials estimate
    that we're only catching about 5 to 10 percent of fentanyl that
    is coming in from Mexico. So, do that math. If that's true,
    then we are only catching--or we're not catching 90 to 95
    percent of the fentanyl that is actually coming across our
    Southern Border. We have to be honest about that. That should
    alarm every single one of us, and it also shows why border
    security is an important component to stopping the flow of
    fentanyl.
        Senator Kennedy.
        Senator Kennedy. Dr. Farfan, the president of Mexico, until
    2024, was President Lopez Obrador. Is that right? And he ran
    for president, with respect to the cartels, on the slogan,
    ``Hugs, Not Bullets.'' Is that right?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Well, no, he did not run his campaign--
    --
        Senator Kennedy. Yes, he did.
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez.--with that slogan.
        Senator Kennedy. Yes, he did. Now, his handpicked successor
    is President Steinbaum; is that correct?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Sheinbaum.
        Senator Kennedy. Is that correct?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Claudia Sheinbaum.
        Senator Kennedy. Right. Am I right?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Yes.
        Senator Kennedy. Okay. I love the people of Mexico, and the
    people of Mexico are good friends. But isn't a big part of the
    problem that President Lopez Obrador, and now President Shein-
    baum--thank you for correcting me, by the way--live in the
    right front pocket of the Mexican drug cartels?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I disagree with that statement.
        Senator Kennedy. I thought you might. You want more task
    forces.
        Dr. Westlake, this represents 400 grams of fentanyl--it'll
    kill every person in Providence, Rhode Island. If you're a
    dealer and you get caught with this, you get 10 years, minimum.
        This represents 40 grams of fentanyl--would kill every
    single man, woman, and child in Culpeper, Virginia. If you get
    caught with this amount, as a dealer, you get a 5-year minimum
    sentence. This is where it gets special.
        This represents 10 grams of PCP. If you get caught with it,
    as a dealer you get 5 years, minimum. Is fentanyl more
    dangerous than PCP?
        Mr. Westlake. Yes, absolutely, Senator. Fentanyl is
    classified--can be classified as a lethal weapon. I did a chart
    on it, and it actually----
        Senator Kennedy. This is 5 grams of meth. That's what this
    represents. If you're a dealer and you get caught with it, your
    minimum sentence is 5 years.
        Is fentanyl--you get caught with this much fentanyl, 5
    year--or 10 years.
        You get caught with this much fentanyl, 5 years.
        Get caught with this much meth--you can hardly see it--you
    get 5 years. Does that make any sense to you?
        Mr. Westlake. No, sir.
        Senator Kennedy. It's like cell-deep stupid. Isn't it? You
    don't need a task force to see the illogic of that. I've got a
    bill, it's called the Fairness in Fentanyl Sentencing, I've
    reintroduced.
        [Poster is displayed and appears as a submission for the
    record.]
        Senator Kennedy. This bill will lower the 5-year mandatory
    minimum for 40 grams of fentanyl to 2 grams of fentanyl. It'll
    lower the 10-year mandatory minimum from 400 grams of fentanyl
    to 20 grams of fentanyl. This bill won't punish addicts. It'll
    help. It's not going to help until President Lopez Obrador and
    President Scheinbaum get out of the pockets of the drug
    cartels. But it's a start. This bill will punish dealers. Thank
    you, Madam Chairman.
        [Hearing attendees applaud.]
        Senator Britt. Senator Whitehouse.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome, to all
    the witnesses. We have real problems in this country with
    opioid addiction. I was the lead Democrat author of the
    Comprehensive Addiction and Recovery Act, which both changed
    the nature of the response to this with a lot more emphasis on
    recovery and prevention and also opened up significant funding
    that has flowed through to States to help the groups that are
    helping people through their addiction and through their
    recovery.
        At this point, as best I can tell, the Trump funding freeze
    is blocking dollars that would otherwise be flowing to
    treatment and recovery groups around the country. In some
    cases, it's not so much that they are being told no, it's that
    they can't get a straight answer. And the confusion could well
    be just a deliberate fog to obscure the freeze. The lawsuits
    that are proceeding will help clarify that. But in the
    meantime, I think it's notable, when we're dealing here with
    this issue, to understand that the Trump administration has
    unilaterally frozen funds that flow through to this problem.
        Our community health centers in Rhode Island are seeing
    funds similarly either blocked or fogged so that they can't get
    an answer that the funds are cleared. And it's through
    community health centers that a lot of people get their
    treatment, as they deal with addiction and recovery issues. So,
    I hope that we can get this freeze issue resolved, now that two
    courts have found that it is illegal. In the same way that the
    Trump administration doesn't seem to respect the power of the
    purse in Congress, it is not clear that they respect the power
    of the courts to decide what the law is. So, we will have to
    see. But we are clearly outside of constitutional bounds at
    this point, and people who count on addiction and recovery
    services are in the target hairs of this.
        We agreed, I think, as a Committee--and we've done some
    pretty good work together as a Committee, Republicans and
    Democrats alike--to try to put pressure on drug sales that come
    via the internet and through social media. So, it's disturbing
    to me that President Trump pardoned an individual who ran a
    drug-selling dark website. He also had some murder-for-hire
    accusations, just to add a little bit of color to what a decent
    person he was.
        I think the place where we can make the most progress, as
    Ranking Member Durbin mentioned earlier, is with Section 230. I
    applaud the litigation that is going forward. I applaud the
    lawyers who've been able to negotiate the various hurdles that
    Congress has erected to the American system of justice having
    its role in dealing with these deaths and with these tragedies.
    I think there's bipartisan support for repealing Section 230. I
    am on for that, and I think the sooner we do that, the better
    we are.
        It is simply wrong for these enormously powerful social
    media entities to have rights to do harm to Americans without
    accountability that no other entity shares. So, they've blown
    any excuse to maintain that privileged position, with their
    behavior, in my view. So, let's go for 230. And with respect to
    enforcement, reassigning FBI, DOJ, and DEA agents off this task
    I don't think is a good idea. We'll find out more about how
    many were reassigned. Cutting FinCEN dollars, I think, is a big
    mistake.
        And I'll close with a question to Dr. Farfan. It's been my
    experience as a prosecutor for many years that we put a lot of
    attention into interdicting distribution networks for drugs. By
    comparison, we put a very small effort into interdicting the
    financial return of that money, the hiding of that money in
    international accounts and international dark money banking and
    covert other systems. What more should we be doing to get after
    the financing of these cartels? And is the gun traffic back to
    them part of the payment to them for the drugs that we try to
    interdict coming in?
        Senator Britt. And we are out of time, so if you can keep
    your response brief. Thank you.
        Senator Whitehouse. Well, customarily, as long as the
    question is asked before the clock runs out, the witness gets
    to answer it.
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Thank you. So, in terms of the illicit
    flows, certainly there's--because money laundering takes place
    across jurisdictions, it requires also cooperation. So, the
    best cases that we have seen between, for instance, Mexico and
    the United States of this money laundering operations had to do
    with working together between the two governments. Now, I
    understand this is not easily done, but these are the most
    effective cases of money laundering. Certainly, firearms
    trafficking is part of that.
        There's a clear notion that drugs normally come from the
    south, and firearms and money flow from the United States to
    Mexico. And again, there's a linkage between these criminal
    markets. And if we want to save lives by tackling the fentanyl
    supply, then there should also be paying attention to money and
    firearms.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate your
    courtesy.
        Senator Britt. With regards to social media, I appreciate
    the work that's been done on this Committee--and certainly
    Senator Blumenthal and Senator Blackburn and the work that they
    have done in a bipartisan way to address this. As a mom of a
    14- and a 15-year-old who knows that Snapchat is used to tell
    people which color uniform they're supposed to wear that day,
    or they use it to figure out where friends are going to meet,
    you'd think that this can happen--to your point, too--anyone,
    anywhere. And I am so grateful for you both using your voice to
    speak up and speak directly into this issue. So, thank you.
        I do want to address complaints about the brief pause on
    grant funding. It's important to know that this was temporary.
    It was a temporary pause, and to the extent permitted by law.
    Law enforcement grants aren't handed out during this time of
    year. Our constituent needs will continue to be taken care of
    while President Trump delivers on the job voters elected him to
    do. Voters asked him to grow our economy, protect our
    communities, and ensure that taxpayer dollars are used wisely.
    Examining spending is part of that. President Trump has always
    backed the Blue, just like Chairman Grassley, and just like
    myself.
        Additionally, one more thing before we move on. I'd like to
    enter into the record a letter of support from 11 law
    enforcement organizations for HALT Fentanyl, including the
    National Narcotic Officers' Association, which is in town for
    its annual conference.
        [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
        Senator Britt. I am pleased that we have several of their
    members here today as guests of Chairman Grassley. These
    organizations represent constituents from each of our States
    and a significant portion of our Nation's Federal, State, and
    local law enforcement communities. As their letter says, for
    the sake of public safety, we must pass HALT Fentanyl Act.
    Senator Blackburn.
        Senator Blackburn. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman. Mr.
    Puerta, I am so sorry for your loss. I noted that you said your
    son had an ADHD diagnosis. And I was looking at figures last
    week from our TennCare, which is our Medicaid program in
    Tennessee, and there are over 400,000 children in our State of
    7 million people that have an ADHD diagnosis. I know that we
    have so many times seen kids that, to deal with the pain, would
    try to get something, and my heart breaks for you. And I hope
    we take a deeper dive and that, if confirmed, that Robert F.
    Kennedy will take a deeper dive into how we medicate children
    and work on these issues. And thank you for the good work that
    you are doing.
        Ms. Norring, thank you for your support of KOSA. I
    appreciate that, and we share your heartbreak. I stepped out of
    Committee to go speak to a group of children that are here for
    Wired Human and are working on this issue. And the work that
    you and other parents have done has encouraged these children
    to stand up and be a resource to their peers and to help them
    through this issue. So, I thank you for that good work that you
    are doing.
        Sheriff Barnes, I want to talk with you about HIDTA. I know
    that, in 2022, we had 134 criminal organizations that were
    dismantled by HIDTA. We had over 8,700 kilograms of drugs that
    were removed nationally. And in Tennessee, our TBI director,
    Director Rausch--every time he sees me, he says, we have to
    reauthorize HIDTA, because it is effective. And the Appalachia
    HIDTA Task Force operating in Tennessee was responsible for
    moving $51 million street value of drugs off the market. So,
    talk for a minute about why it is crucial that HIDTA be
    reauthorized for law enforcement officers like you.
        Sheriff Barnes. Thank you, Senator Blackburn, and thank you
    for the reauthorization of HIDTA. It's very important. And
    Director Rausch is a good friend. It's----
        Senator Blackburn. He's a good man.
        Sheriff Barnes. I will summarize it this way. At this time
    in our Nation's war history--the worst time of our narcotics
    trafficking and deaths, this is not the time to disenfranchise
    or divest from the HIDTA program. HIDTA programs are national.
    They rely on local law enforcement task forces and
    contributions. The HIDTA funding doesn't really fully fund the
    HIDTA programs. It offsets those contributions from locals. And
    right now with our municipal agencies having hiring problems,
    they're stepping away from the HIDTA programs. Keeping them
    staffed is very difficult. So, that reauthorization's very
    critical, to keep the glue together to keep the HIDTA programs
    running.
        Senator Blackburn. I have talked to--and I want to stay
    with you, Sheriff--talked to some of our law enforcement
    agencies, and they have talked about sanctuary city policies.
    And I know that Senator Lee brought this up with you. But it
    seems that in a sanctuary city, to go after these traffickers,
    that it is more difficult, that sometimes you have to find
    workarounds. And I would love for you to talk for just a minute
    about what we can do that would help you all, as you try to
    deal with these sanctuary cities, to get these drugs off the
    streets.
        Sheriff Barnes. Senator, it's even worse for me in
    California because of Senate Bill 54, passed about 6 years ago,
    that prohibits my dialogue with Federal partners on immigration
    issues. I have the ability to turn over high-level offenders
    only to ICE. They don't always pick them up, which requires me
    to release them back in the communities, in which they
    reoffend, oftentimes with the communities that they preyed
    upon.
        I'm a supporter of abolishing that SB 54 movement. We have
    to be able to cooperate with our Federal partners. And I think
    if we hold these criminals accountable--this isn't about the
    general public. Those who are entrusted to my care, in my jail,
    in the safest environment, to transfer them over to ICE's
    custody will keep our community safe, especially the immigrant
    communities, from them returning to prey upon them.
        Senator Blackburn. And, you know, so many people will say,
    when they get back out, you know, when they evade law
    enforcement in these sanctuary cities, that they really return
    even more committed to abuse people in those communities where
    they have been trafficking those drugs-- to pick up the pace of
    selling the drugs. And I look at these sanctuary city policies,
    and I think how difficult it makes your job, when you're trying
    to keep our communities safe. And we thank you for the work
    that you're doing. We thank each of you for being here today.
    Senator Blumenthal and I are going to continue to push KOSA, to
    get, as you said, Ms. Norring, that foundational law that will
    allow--allow us to hold social media to account. Thank you all.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. Senator Schmitt.
        Senator Schmitt. Madam Chair, two hearings, and you're
    chairing the Committee. This is--wow, it's amazing.
        Senator Britt. Thank you.
        Senator Schmitt. Thank you for recognizing me.
        First of all, as a parent of three young children--or, no,
    they're not so young, now, teenage girls, and my son, Stephen,
    who's 20--thank you for being here and sharing your stories. I
    can't imagine how difficult it is to do this, and--but it is
    incredibly effective, I think, when you do show up and you
    share those stories. It humanizes something and an issue that
    can very often become about different things other than the
    actual human impact.
        And, you know, from my perspective, the job I had before
    this, I was an attorney general in the State of Missouri and
    actually served with Senator Moody, and we went down to the
    Border and learned a lot about the activity and how the
    cartels--and it's not just the drugs. And there are, obviously,
    the drugs. But the value of the human trafficking alone, and
    this was a few years ago, was $100 million a week. A week. That
    is not--we're not even talking about the value of the drugs
    that they're moving and the zones of influence that they have
    into the interior of the United States.
        This is a serious crisis, and obviously it's killing, you
    know, too many of our young men and women in this country and
    communities all across the country. Every--and, you know, it
    gets overused now, but every State truly is a border State when
    it comes to this. And, sort of, in that vein, about the
    cartels, I do want to ask you, Doctor, in your view, is Mexico
    doing enough from a law enforcement perspective, as it relates
    to the cartels?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think both countries need to do more--
    --
        Senator Schmitt. No, I--yes, Mexico. I'm asking about
    Mexico. Listen, there's a lot we need to do, but I want to ask
    specifically--I mean, part of the reason you're here is to
    speak to that relationship between the U.S. and Mexico, but
    from your view, are they doing enough?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think there is definitely more that
    can be done by Mexico.
        Senator Schmitt. And what would that be?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I think it's working closer with U.S.
    counterparts. I think it is also having this diagnosis of this
    connection between these criminal markets, arms trafficking,
    drug trafficking, to really benefit communities on both sides
    of the Border.
        Senator Schmitt. Do you feel like--and there's been
    testimony. This isn't just, you know, in some high-profile
    cases, including in the El Chapo case, there's been testimony
    from witnesses who were once members of the cartels that there
    is pretty widespread corruption at high levels of the Mexican
    government that are preventing them from actually doing what
    they should do to crack down on the cartels. Do you share those
    concerns?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I would not necessarily align myself
    with the testimony of potentially a criminal witness from a
    case like that. I understand there are concerns about
    corruption within Mexico, and I understand there's questions
    about needing to address that. Having said that, I think
    general accusations about corruption of the entire government,
    those are not necessarily productive for good U.S.-Mexico
    engagements----
        Senator Schmitt. Well, I guess what I'm getting at is that
    there are people--and I get the complexities of some testimony,
    but it's not just a one-off example. And I think the concern I
    have is that there's just very little being spent, quite
    honestly, on law enforcement, writ large, in Mexico. And I just
    don't know that this has been given the attention, over the
    last, at least, 4 years, that it should. And hopefully that
    dynamic is changing. I do think the cooperation between the
    U.S. and Mexico is really important on this. There's no doubt
    about that.
        But I want to, I guess, sort of turn my attention, Sheriff,
    to you, because--with my limited time. You do have sort of one
    arm tied behind your back, given, I guess, the laws in the
    State of California, the sanctuary status, which isn't--I don't
    pretend to understand it at all. It's a mess.
        But when I was AG in Missouri, we had some pretty unique
    partnerships where we would deputize some people in our office
    to work in the U.S. attorney's office, to go after some violent
    crime that maybe at a local level they weren't--they were
    choosing not to pursue. Is that kind of where, if you've sort
    of got your arm tied behind your back, maybe that's a way
    forward--is you actually have to have more Federal agents
    working with the U.S. attorneys to go after these folks,
    because at a local level that's harder to do?
        Sheriff Barnes. So, there's two parts to that question.
    Under California law, I'm prohibited from cooperating with ICE
    in any manner, including housing of individuals within my
    jails. I cannot hold ICE detainees in my jails. Regarding
    Federal task force or designating task force officers or those
    who are attorneys to prosecute on behalf of the U.S. attorney's
    office--that is being done in California, but not specific to
    immigration, specific to the issues of fentanyl directly.
        Senator Schmitt. Okay. All right. Well, thank you. And
    again, to the witnesses, thank you for being here today. Thank
    you.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. Before we move on, I'd like to
    enter into the record a letter of support from CADCA, the
    premier prevention association representing over 7,000
    coalition members across the country, in strong support of the
    HALT Fentanyl.
        [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
        Senator Britt. CADCA coalitions support millions of high
    school and middle school students across this Nation and have
    proven effective in reducing youth substance abuse and use. We
    thank them for their support of HALT Fentanyl. Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you
    for coming and testifying, and, of course, my sympathies to Mr.
    Puerta and Ms. Norring. Obviously, this is a complicated
    question in the sense that we have disagreements on who is
    bringing in fentanyl--into our country. But we all know that it
    is creating, basically, havoc. And I particularly was
    interested in noting how we can prevent young people from
    getting access to fentanyl. At the same time--and their
    analogues.
        At the same time, we need a Justice Department that is
    stable. Right now, there is chaos as this administration tries
    to eliminate anybody who can stand up to them. And, in
    addition, when they want the names of everyone who had anything
    to do with the January 6 investigations and prosecutions, we
    are talking about potentially thousands of FBI agents, so you
    can imagine the chaos that is going on in that Department.
        For Mr. Puerta, I know you mentioned the ``Dead on
    Arrival'' as a documentary that is shown. I mean, what age do
    you think that the children should be when they are alerted to,
    for example, not buying anything on the internet? And this goes
    for Ms. Norring, too, in terms of prevention. What----
        Mr. Puerta. They----
        Senator Hirono [continuing]. Is an age? And then----
        Mr. Puerta. Thank you for the question.
        Senator Hirono [continuing]. Does a documentary like the
    one you mentioned--does it really impact the young people? If
    not, what does, in terms of education?
        Mr. Puerta. ``Dead on Arrival,'' again, is a 22-minute
    documentary that we use in junior high schools and high schools
    across the Nation. We just started, also, with fifth and sixth
    graders, as well. We started that in Lake County, California,
    where Mr. Filson, who's behind me here, went up there and saw
    more than 5,000 students. Ms. Hirono, I have a stack of letters
    from high school students, junior high school students,
    elementary school students who have seen this documentary, that
    had absolutely no idea of the impending danger and had no idea
    that buying illicit fentanyl was as easy as ordering a pizza--
    --
        Senator Hirono. Mm-hmm.
        Mr. Puerta [continuing]. Through Snapchat. That's how easy
    it is.
        Senator Hirono. And the danger of this drug is, though,
    they can die on first use.
        Mr. Puerta. According to the New England Journal of
    Medicine, 22 children per week died in the year 2022, between
    the ages--nonaddicted children between the ages of 14 and 18
    years of age, due--mostly driven by illicit fentanyl pills.
    Twenty-two a week.
        Senator Hirono. So easy to obtain on the internet, and
    that's why there are a number of us on this Committee who have
    raised the issue of very dramatically limiting the Section 230
    immunity for the social platforms, because of what parents,
    particularly, have to go through just to hold these entities
    accountable. It shouldn't be that way. And so there are a
    number of us who are on that page.
        Ms. Norring, I believe you mentioned that there are some
    schools that do not want to provide this kind of education for
    fear of something. I mean, could you go over a little bit more
    why that is? And also, for both of you, what can we do at the
    Federal level to really support the kind of prevention efforts
    that you both, I believe, are engaged in?
        Ms. Norring. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I feel
    that this education needs to be taught as early as elementary
    school.
        Senator Hirono. Elementary.
        Ms. Norring. I believe, you know, just from my own
    experience back home and studies done back home and surveys
    done back home with our students, 12-year-olds are the start of
    where they're beginning with the vapes and the THC vapes. So,
    the earlier we can reach them, definitely the better. Back
    home, the schools that--it's just--it's multiple roadblocks.
    They don't want it in their schools; there's not enough time in
    the school years; there's a stigma that it could create more
    kids going out there and being exposed to these. We've seen a
    decline in the D.A.R.E. programs, for that reason.
        Senator Hirono. Short of requiring this kind of education
    to be available, what can we do at the Federal level to promote
    and to support your efforts?
        Ms. Norring. Well, I know that was a big thing with
    families like mine, pushing to get our schools to carry
    naloxone. And as part of our legalizing marijuana bill, in the
    year 2025, schools now have to require--they are required now
    to provide fentanyl poisoning education. It's kind of--and with
    the legalization of that, it's kind of hypocritical, you know,
    to have that education piece tucked into that bill, in my
    opinion, because now we're saying it's okay to do one drug, but
    these drugs--stay away from these ones.
        Mr. Puerta. Most of these nonprofits are all made up of
    bereaved families that would come together and--because they
    failed--like, the Government wasn't doing enough, and we felt
    that we just couldn't sit idly by and watch these children die
    on a daily basis. So, I think one of the things that could
    really be helpful from the Federal Government is granting--
    giving us grants----
        Senator Hirono. Mm-hmm.
        Mr. Puerta [continuing]. To community organizations like
    ourselves, because we don't really fall into a certain category
    where we can get grants to do this. We're self-funded,
    actually, and it's really difficult to do that, especially when
    we're traveling across the Nation and doing the work that we
    do.
        But we don't charge any money for what we do. We charge
    zero dollars to go to a school. We take time out of our days,
    out of our weeks. And like I said, Mr. Filson was up in Lake
    County, California, up there for a full week, educating 5,000
    students on the dangers of illicit fentanyl. But community
    grants for our specific, I guess, niche, for a lack of better
    words, would be really great.
        Senator Hirono. I think that is something that we can do,
    provided that we had an administration that isn't going to put
    a blanket hold on all grants to entities such as yours. Thank
    you very much for your testimony and your suggestion.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. As been discussed here today, in
    2024, CBP seized approximately 22,000 pounds of fentanyl at
    U.S. ports of entry on our Southern Border and our Northern
    Border, as well as coastal and interior ports. That's nearly
    1.1 billion lethal doses. That averages out to approximately 3
    doses for every person residing in the United States. And
    perhaps of even greater concern, it's been estimated, as I
    mentioned earlier, that only 5 to 10 percent of the fentanyl
    crossing the Border is actually being interdicted.
        The flow of drugs across our borders is ravaging
    communities around our country, including in my home State of
    Alabama. In 2023, the Annual Report of the Alabama Opioid
    Overdose and Addiction Council discussed the alarming increase
    in fentanyl-related overdose deaths and poisonings in Alabama
    between 2018 and 2022. In 2022, Alabama's SBI seized a total of
    8,300 grams of fentanyl, which is equivalent to 8.3 million
    lethal doses--enough to kill everyone in the State of Alabama
    plus 3 million more. In FY 2024, that number was up to 12,400
    grams of fentanyl.
        So, let's be clear. These numbers increasing actually
    represent more devastated families and more deaths. I have sat
    across from far too many parents--in my short time in the
    United States Senate--that are grieving, just as you two are.
    And I just want to say, again, thank you for sharing your
    story. I'm going to have our team clip your testimony, put it
    together, so that we can help begin that PSA.
        You are changing lives. You're here today not only to see
    change in law but to make sure that we save lives and that no
    one else has to go through what you did. So, thank you for
    sharing your story, and I can promise you with every ounce of
    me, we're going to do everything possible to elevate it, to ask
    parents to watch your testimony today, to ask parents to listen
    to what you're saying so that they do not have to go through
    the unthinkable that you have. And we are just so grateful for
    your willingness to be here.
        What I'd like to know, Sheriff Barnes--you have testified
    regarding this issue before. But can you tell us, from your
    perspective of a local law enforcement officer, why you think
    the Federal Government needs a more effective strategy in place
    than we've seen over the last 4 years, at our Southern Border
    in particular? And what elements of the strategy should look
    like? And how Congress can work with the President to actually
    implement these types of things, moving forward?
        Sheriff Barnes. Yes. Thank you, Senator. I have testified
    to this before. And I think if you look just from post-9/11,
    where we are today, the threat horizon's much broader than it
    was back 24 years ago, and it's encompassing all these other
    categorical crimes: cyber, fentanyl, human trafficking. They're
    all on the same platform.
        So, specific to fentanyl, we have to work laterally and
    vertically. And that means with our vertical, with our Federal
    partners, our State partners, and our local partners; laterally
    with all the different efforts being put forth on the
    trafficking entities that are disparately addressing this
    issue, but we're not synergizing those efforts very well. I
    believe that we have a problem with communications.
        Senator Britt. Okay.
        Sheriff Barnes. If we're going to do a great offense, we
    have to communicate with our Federal partners to the Border,
    find where their efforts are, how we can pivot around those to
    get the end around from the cartels, and, most importantly
    right now, be aware of probably the maritime issues we'll
    undoubtedly face going forward. Because of the closure at the
    Border, they will pivot around on the waterways.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. Dr. Westlake, first I want to
    thank you for the incredible work that you've done as a medical
    professional and as an advocate working to protect Americans
    from the dangers of illicit drugs, like fentanyl. In my view,
    we need to be as bold as possible when it comes to taking steps
    to protecting American children and families from the scourge
    of fentanyl. That's one of the reasons I am a Co-Sponsor of the
    HALT Fentanyl Act. Given your work on the issue, can you
    comment on the impact that FRS class scheduling has had on the
    enforcement landscape over the last several years and if there
    are any myths about class scheduling that you would like to
    dispel?
        Mr. Westlake. Thanks for the question, Senator Britt. Yes,
    so the myths that were there were initially that there would be
    people that were incarcerated from it, unduly incarcerated.
    It's already proven, through the DEA report and since then,
    that people aren't being incarcerated for it, for the same
    reason that people aren't dying from it--is because it doesn't
    exist. And that's what it does. This is--I don't envy the job
    that you have up here on the dais of addressing, you know, one
    of the things you address is the illicit fentanyl scourge. But
    one thing that's the lowest hanging fruit you can address is
    just permanently scheduling fentanyl-related substances.
        There's, you know, there's no impact on criminal justice
    that's negative. It saves people's lives. It's a proven
    strategy. It's a win. It's bipartisan, 70 votes in the House,
    last session--probably more this session. So, I encourage that
    to happen.
        Senator Britt. Thank you. And thank you all for your time
    today. I am going to recognize Senator Moody, and also--this is
    the fastest rise to the top ever--you will be chairing this
    Committee as I go to vote.
        Senator Moody [presiding]. And it is appropriate, because
    this has been one of my priorities as attorney general, and I
    am honored to be here today among all of you. If you are a
    family member who has lost a loved one or a law enforcement
    official who has stood by that family and worked with someone
    who has lost a loved one, will you stand up?
        [Some of the hearing attendees stand.]
        Senator Moody. I just wanted this hearing to reflect the
    power of Americans coming together under such tragic loss, to
    get something done. Thank you so much. This was one of----
        [Hearing attendees applaud.]
        Senator Moody. Thank you, Katie Britt. This was one of my
    priorities as attorney general, but not because I was the
    attorney general. It was because I worked alongside so many
    people who had lost loved ones, law enforcement. I am a mother
    of a teenager. I am the wife of a law enforcement officer. This
    is the number one killer of working- and fighting-age
    Americans. Period.
        So we have a lot to deal with, a lot on our plates, as
    leaders in this Nation. This is the number one killer of
    working- and fighting-age Americans right now. It has been. And
    if I sound upset about the fact that we have not moved faster
    on this, that is justified. I want to commend Chairman
    Grassley, who called this hearing. The last 4 years, this
    Committee has not held one hearing on fentanyl. And again, I
    will repeat, this is the leading killer of working- and
    fighting-age Americans. And whether you are a lab in China,
    whether you are a cartel in Mexico, whether you are an
    organization that is sitting by while your company or your
    platform is being used to facilitate the trafficking of
    fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances, this is happening on
    purpose.
        This is intentional. No one can say that it is not. Because
    things can be done, like, I don't know, start with a hearing to
    talk about fentanyl. Bring family members that have lost loved
    ones, law enforcement that is working on the front lines. Thank
    you for taking the time to be here. I'm glad this is one of my
    first hearings. So, I want to thank Chairman Grassley for doing
    this, because the last 4 years, we should've had a hearing on
    this in this Committee, and we have not. I'm the newest Member
    here. I sit at a kids' table, if you can see. I'm not even
    attached to the real bench.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Moody. But we're going to talk about it, moving
    forward. I can assure you that. I just spoke with Joni Ernst.
    She said when she got here, she pledged to be a squealer on
    budget issues. I'm going to be a squealer on the loss of life.
    Because this weakens us as a Nation. Weakens us. And I know all
    of you know that. I also want to thank a great President who
    has done a lot in the first 2 weeks in office.
        [Hearing attendees applaud.]
        Senator Moody. You know, in the last 4 years, I said
    repeatedly, as AG, we need to declare the cartels as foreign
    terrorist organizations. He got that done. I said, we need to
    do that so we can send military to the Border to secure it. He
    got that done. Oh, and by the way, when I pointed out, as Ms.--
    I should say Dr. Farfan said, transnational problems require
    transnational solutions--when I pointed out that the Mexican
    president at the time said, ``Fentanyl's not our problem. I'm a
    Mexico-first president. Fentanyl's an American problem''--soon
    thereafter, our Commander-in-Chief said that Mexico was a great
    partner.
        I am so glad that we have a President now that, within the
    first 2 weeks, leveraged terrorists, that now Mexico and Canada
    have both pledged resources and bodies to help shut those
    borders and stop the flow of fentanyl. That's how you get stuff
    done. It can happen, if you have people committed to it.
    Transnational problems do require transnational effort, and I'm
    glad we have a Commander-in-Chief holding feet to the fire and
    getting it done.
        There's been a 350 percent increase in fentanyl deaths
    among our teens in the last 3 years, 4 years. I want to just
    say, as a mother, I could barely hold it together when I was
    listening to your testimony. I have a teenager right now.
        I cannot imagine the indescribable, overwhelming, traumatic
    pain that you have suffered. But I want to thank you for being
    here, for sharing your stories--most importantly, for sharing
    your children's stories, so that we could not only honor Daniel
    and Devin, remember them, but bring meaning to what you have
    gone through, so that other parents--I want to say I and you
    and other parents right now of teenagers--we're about the first
    generation of parents having to deal with this mess. We're
    learning as we go. You are on the front lines in this fight,
    helping us, leading the way, shining the light. We've got your
    back, but we need you showing us where to go, and I want to
    thank you for that.
        I want to start with you, Ms. Norring. What platform did
    your son obtain a counterfeit pill that contained a lethal dose
    of fentanyl?
        Ms. Norring. Snapchat.
        Senator Moody. And I'd like to move to you, Mr. Puerta.
    What platform did your son find a counterfeit pill that
    contained a lethal dose of fentanyl?
        Mr. Puerta. Snapchat.
        Senator Moody. Snapchat has become a vast online drug
    market. There is no doubt that it facilitates drug sales to
    vulnerable children, many who think they're buying Xanax or
    Percocet or Adderall, when in reality it is a pill that has a
    lethal dose of fentanyl. Seven out of ten counterfeit pills now
    have a lethal dose of fentanyl. Many of these one-pills can
    kill four adults. That is what is out there lurking for our
    children. The National Crime Prevention Council estimates 80
    percent of teen and young adult fentanyl poisoning deaths can
    be traced to social media.
        And I know we're talking about Snapchat because that is
    what brought tragedy upon your lives. But there are other
    social media platforms where children, vulnerable populations,
    are obtaining access to drugs. Teens can now get drugs so
    easily, the cartels think of these social media platforms as
    their Uber Eats, for quick delivery right into the hands of our
    children. I agree with you, Mr. Puerta and Ms. Norring. The
    bedroom is where we always thought our children could go
    upstairs, shut their door, and they would be safe. And that is
    no longer the case, which presents challenges to parents like
    we have never seen before.
        The DEA has warned Congress that cartels are now targeting
    young Americans through platforms fueling the fentanyl
    epidemic. Every week, the equivalent of a high school
    classroom's worth of students dies from fentanyl overdose
    deaths. This is an incredible statistic. If we saw this with
    any other product, there would be Federal law shutting down
    these products, to make them safe before they could go back on
    market.
        And we saw this time and time again in the automobile
    industry, when we started losing people to faulty automobiles.
    There was a stop sale order. They had to become safe before
    they could be sold again. Why can't something similar be
    applied to social media platforms, especially when the death
    toll is so egregious? I mean, you can look at the deaths from
    some of these automobiles, and that was over years. The Pinto
    was 89 deaths, or 180 deaths. The too-fast Toyota was 89
    deaths. Oh, what did I say? Pinto, 180 deaths. Ford Broncos,
    823 deaths.
        We lose way more than that, just in kids overdosing from
    fentanyl, every single year. We have got to get going. We have
    got to get stuff done. And so I would just say this. This is
    what happens when you're the junior Senator and you're last. If
    you could tell us, Congress, after we pass the HALT Fentanyl
    Act, which deals with the--changing the chemical compound to
    get around the laws, right--after that, what is the most
    important thing we can do to stop the death toll on our
    children here in the United States?
        Ms. Norring. I would say, Senator, passing the Kids Online
    Safety Act, the Cooper Davis and Devin Norring Act. The social
    media reform really needs to take the front line. Section 230
    reform needs to be done, because you cannot continue having
    these platforms have that kind of power over the parents and be
    allowed to kill our children, in a sense.
        Senator Moody. Mr. Puerta?
        Mr. Puerta. Well, there's a lot that we can do. Definitely
    have to schedule the fentanyl and all of its analogues, illicit
    fentanyl, into the Schedule I drug. I would also say, though,
    that we have to target the supply chain. We have to strengthen
    border security. We have to crack down on the chemical supply.
    We have to destroy the cartel infrastructure. We have to
    increase intelligence sharing between both countries, support
    Mexico security forces, expand sanctions and designations.
        We have to cut off their finances. TD Bank was just fined
    $4 billion because they were caught laundering all of this
    money from the cartels. Why is nothing happening to the
    American banks, here in this country, who's laundering the
    money? There's so much that we can do. I, as a parent,
    shouldn't have all this information. I'm just a small business
    owner from Santa Clarita, California. Why do I have all this
    information? Because I had to study this. Because I don't want
    more kids to die.
        We have to go after these bank--we have to go after the
    launderers. We have to go after--to target corrupt officials on
    both sides of the aisle--not on the aisle but in Mexico and
    here in the United States. We have to seize assets. We have to
    also reduce the demand for drugs here in the United States.
    There're a lot of people who are addicted to drugs here in the
    United States, and we have nothing for them. Nothing. We have
    Medi-Cal, maybe, that gives them 30-day rehabilitation, and
    then you're out on your own. We've got to get them help, as
    well.
        We have to expand addiction treatment and recovery. We have
    to increase penalties for distributors. We have to hold Mexico
    accountable--pressure the Mexican government to do more,
    obviously. We have to leverage trade and diplomatic tools.
    Military intervention is a last resort. Mr. Trump, Donald
    Trump, our President, just designated them as a--all criminal
    cartels as FTOs, as a foreign terrorist organization. I think
    that's wonderful. I think that's needed. But we have the same
    problem here in the United States, as well. So, I think that it
    has to be bilateral, it has to be bipartisan, and there's a lot
    that needs to be done. If not, more kids are going to die. But
    definitely the first and most important aspect of this is
    getting this scheduled as a Schedule I. We have to do it,
    because if not, more kids are going to continue dying.
        Senator Moody. Thank you for being here.
        Mr. Puerta. Thank you.
        Senator Moody. Thank you for your advising us, and Devin
    and Daniel certainly will be remembered in this Committee, and
    you've made sure of that. Thank you so much. At this time, I
    get the honor of recognizing Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. Well, what a rise. You're already Chair.
        Senator Moody. So they tell me.
        Senator Tillis. I think that what we just heard is really
    the mood of Congress, in general. Ms. Farfan--first, to the--
    I've spoken with too many families who are suffering through
    what you've suffered through. We have to change things.
        Ms. Farfan, I was here for the opening testimony, and you
    wanted to focus on the southern migration of weapons. I believe
    that's a serious concern. But you said something that concerned
    me, and it had to do with the will of the Mexican government.
    See, and I want you to--first, I should say, I do believe that
    we have to hold the social media platforms accountable. But
    make no mistake about it, these thugs that run the cartels will
    find another way to get this poison here. If we don't dampen--
    if we don't do things that reduce the demand and if we don't
    disrupt the supply, it'll just be a different way for the
    snakes to get this poison into our country. So, we need to be
    smart and not high-five if we do something with 230 that gets
    it off social media platforms. These disgusting murderers and
    poisoners will find a way. So, we have to look at this like a
    multivariable equation and maybe come up with some solutions.
        But, see, I want your perspective on this. I feel like the
    cartels in Mexico are reaching an almost co-equal branch of
    government in Mexico. I don't--I can't reconcile your opening
    statement with the reality that today the plazas on the
    northern border of Mexico are run by the cartels. The people
    trying to cross the Border pay a fee. They are making more
    money off of human trafficking than they are drug smuggling.
    The Sinaloa Cartels have what they call the Sinaloa Air Force,
    who come and drop fentanyl in ultralights and go back home.
        The Mexican government does not have control over the
    situation. There are precursors coming into Mexican ports, and
    they are being transferred to cartels, who are manufacturing
    methamphetamine and fentanyl at scale and finding ways to get
    it into this country, not--in many cases with American citizens
    being the mules coming across the Border--I get that, certainly
    more American citizens responsible for the distribution to
    these children and adults of all ages who are dying.
        So, how--it's interesting to me that President Trump was
    criticized for putting a potential tariff on Mexico. Everybody
    said it was going to be horrible, it's going to kill the
    economy. The only thing that it did, over the course of a few
    days, is prompt the now-current president of Mexico to deploy
    10,000 troops to the Border. Well, if there's no problem, if
    there's no problem with them being an equal partner to the
    difficulties we have at the Border, why would they do that?
    Because they're just afraid of a tariff? Or are they
    recognizing that we're shedding light on a situation at the
    Southern Border that they have simply not made a priority? Why
    would they do that?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Well, I cannot speak on behalf of the
    Mexican government. I do not work----
        Senator Tillis. Well, let me just back up, then, because
    you're a smart person. I just absolutely reject out of hand
    that this is--we've got to deal with the illicit trade and guns
    going across the Border. I agree with that. In fact, I got in
    trouble with some gun--Second Amendment advocacy groups,
    because I agree that we've got to fix that problem. But--and
    maybe just for the record, you can suggest to me why you think
    Mexico has done everything they have to play their part in
    preventing this poison from being manufactured.
        China, in plain sight, is sending precursors. The Mexican--
    whoever's running the ports and who are allowing supply chains
    to occur are allowing it to occur at scale, and over 100,000
    people are dying every year in this country, many of them as a
    result of fentanyl or opioids. More people die in North
    Carolina as a result of overdoses for fentanyl or opioids than
    people die on our highways. Most of this--most reasonable
    people--unless, for the purposes of QFRs, you can send me
    evidence--that Mexico needs to wake up and be a partner and a
    friend to our south and address this as the problem that it is,
    and it's happening in plain sight among the Mexican authorities
    and among the cartels who have organized the plazas at the
    northern border, and they are running it.
        There is no way that Mexico sends 10,000 to their northern
    border if they don't think they've got a problem that President
    Trump has illuminated. Thank you, all, for being here today.
    But please understand that some of the things you've asked for
    are all just steps in the right direction. But this is far more
    complicated than any one thing we can do, and I look forward to
    continue and engage with you. Thank you.
        Senator Moody. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Graham.
        Senator Graham. Thank you very much. Sheriff Barnes, you've
    been involved in this space for quite a while, right? How would
    you describe the role of China in the fentanyl problem America
    faces?
        Sheriff Barnes. China is the first domino that tips in
    contributing to the fentanyl crisis. They're the contributor of
    the vast majority of the precursor chemicals, and if we deal
    with that, that would be the first--a great first step in
    dealing with----
        Senator Graham. When they say they're not, they're lying,
    right?
        Sheriff Barnes. I would say they're not being truthful.
    Yes.
        Senator Graham. Yes. I would say they're lying. So, there's
    a 10 percent tariff on China. One of the things that President
    Trump would like to accomplish is to protect our country from
    fentanyl poisoning. Sheriff Barnes, what you say, the DEA
    echoes. Without China, this couldn't happen. China is an
    essential ingredient in the poisoning of America by fentanyl.
        To the Chinese Communist Party: You either change, or there
    will be consequences coming from the Trump administration and
    the Congress. We're not going to sit by any longer and watch
    you enrich yourselves, different companies in China, at the
    expense of America. So, be on notice, you either change your
    practices regarding supporting drug cartels in Mexico, China,
    or you will pay a heavy price. And that's not too much to ask.
    Do you agree, Sheriff Barnes?
        Sheriff Barnes. I do, Senator.
        Senator Graham. Doctor, how do you say your last name,
    ma'am?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. Farfan.
        Senator Graham. Okay. Do you think the drug cartels should
    be foreign terrorist organizations under U.S. law?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I'm going to comment on the impact that
    this could have on U.S.-Mexico secured cooperation----
        Senator Graham. No, I didn't ask that. I just said, do you
    think they're deserving of the designation?
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez. I believe it would really hinder the
    notion of shared responsibility that is the cornerstone----
        Senator Graham. No, that's not the question. I mean----
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez [continuing]. Of U.S.-Mexico----
        Senator Graham [continuing]. I think----
        Dr. Farfan-Mendez [continuing]. Cooperation.
        Senator Graham [continuing]. I think they've earned it a
    thousand times over. And to our friends in Mexico, we want to
    work with you, but we're not going to sit on the sidelines any
    longer and watch drug labs right below the Southern Border
    manufacture out in the open fentanyl and other drugs to kill
    Americans. We want to work with you. Sheriff Barnes, do you
    believe that in many ways Mexico has lost sovereignty over this
    issue?
        Sheriff Barnes. I believe the Mexican laws have failed,
    domestically, and I believe that that has had down-range
    effects on U.S. lives.
        Senator Graham. So, to our friends in Mexico, we appreciate
    you sending the soldiers, but that's just a first step. As
    Senator Tillis said, we need to put the drug cartels on notice,
    you cannot thrive and survive the way you're doing today. Why
    are they in the drug business? Because the return on investment
    is large, and the risk is small. They'll get out of this
    business when some of them get killed or go to jail. Do you
    agree with that, Sheriff Barnes?
        Sheriff Barnes. I do agree with that. I think it's a
    complex issue. But they're one component of it, obviously, as
    the manufacturers. There's lack of accountability, and until we
    address the issues on both sides, the addiction issue north of
    the Border and the supply issue south of the Border and many
    other things that have to happen----
        Senator Graham. Well, I'm talking about the drug cartels.
    They're in this business because it seems to be a good
    business.
        Sheriff Barnes. They are the equivalent of Amazon, a
    Fortune 100 company. They operate in scale.
        Senator Graham. I can't say it any better. And they're
    making money at the expense of us. Two families, Ms. Norring
    and Mr. Puerta--how do you say your last name, sir?
        Mr. Puerta. Puerta. Puerta. It's okay, though. I
    understand.
        Senator Graham. Okay.
        Mr. Puerta [continuing]. If you can't roll the Rs, it's
    okay.
        Senator Graham. Yes, I have a lot of problems speaking, at
    times. But I don't have any problem understanding what you're
    telling me. Both of you are telling me that your loved ones
    paid the ultimate price because of failed policies. Do you both
    agree with that?
        Mr. Puerta. Yes, Senator.
        Ms. Norring. I agree, Senator.
        Senator Graham. Okay. If you want to deal with this, we
    need to repeal Section 230. You should be allowed to sue.
        Ms. Norring. I agree, Senator.
        Senator Graham. Snapchat should be sued.
        Mr. Puerta. Absolutely.
        Senator Graham. All these companies should be sued, because
    they're fostering an environment that is killing people. They
    are a dangerous product. It's the only companies I know of in
    America that there is no government agency really regulating
    their behavior--and you can't sue them. And there are really no
    laws on the books that control their behavior, empower
    consumers. So if you feel hopeless out there, as a parent, and
    helpless, there's a reason you feel that way, because there's
    not a damned thing you can do about it. That needs to change. I
    wish you well in your lawsuits, and I will, until my last
    breath, here, try to repeal Section 230. Thank you all very
    much.
        Senator Moody. Thank you, Senator Graham--senior to me,
    Senator Graham. You know, a lot can be done besides just
    allowing people to sue. I mean, we, as the Federal Government,
    can enact laws to stop this from happening in our country. It's
    abhorrent that more has not been done to stop this. And I
    wanted to just touch on a few things I was confused by and hope
    that we can get some enlightenment on that. You know, I'm the
    wife of a law enforcement officer. I was a Federal prosecutor,
    myself, going after transnational criminal organizations and
    drug traffickers. And it was not uncommon that those wishing to
    push poison into our United States were not U.S. citizens.
        In fact, many actions taken against cartel members, or
    otherwise, were against foreign nationals. In fact, it was
    confusing to me that I heard a question about DEA participating
    in trying to help and assist with removing those here illegally
    committing crimes, especially those committing drug trafficking
    crimes while we're in the middle of a drug crisis--why that
    would be confusing or even suggested that that might be a waste
    of resource when, in my experience, and certainly in my
    husband's experience, many of his cases, especially involving
    drug trafficking, dealt with foreign nationals. It's not
    surprising to me that they would enlist the Drug Enforcement
    Administration to assist. So, I would like to ask Sheriff
    Barnes, could you speak to the claim that most prosecutions for
    fentanyl trafficking is being done against U.S. citizens?
        Sheriff Barnes. Yes. I think that data that was said--first
    you have to look at this in the population that we're dealing
    with. You have the trafficking component, which is a large-
    scale, en masse bringing across the Border narcotics, and then
    you have the distribution and sales part of that. And that
    oftentimes includes Americans on both sides. But those American
    citizens participating have a direct nexus to or are acting on
    behalf of the cartels. They have been compensated by the
    cartels for their actions and their trafficking. They're not
    operating independent of that.
        Senator Moody. Generally speaking, Sheriff Barnes, once you
    have the upper echelons of cartels start pushing distribution
    down into the United States and others in the United States,
    that takes multiple people. Correct? Thousands, in fact?
        Sheriff Barnes. Yes. It's a very organized marketing,
    distribution network, but the profits, proceeds, and actors are
    all tied to the cartels. The drugs coming across have a nexus
    to cartels, regardless of citizenry. The distribution is on
    behalf and behest of the cartels, and the profits are either
    laundered domestically, to hide that in the continental United
    States, or are transited back across the Border to the profit
    of the cartels.
        Senator Moody. Recognizing the extent of the damage
    inflicted on our Nation and our vulnerable populations from
    this crisis, and recognizing that so little has been done in
    the last 4 years, does it surprise you that a cross-agency
    effort to reel back some of the damage is being put into place?
        Sheriff Barnes. No, I do not think that's surprising. I
    think it's necessary to collaborate across not just different
    agencies but different layers of government, down to the local
    level. I think it's also necessary to synergize those efforts
    in a very coordinated fashion, or else we're just playing
    whack-a-mole with the cartels. It's not any one thing. It's
    doing 12 things simultaneously in a very coordinated fashion
    that's going to, I think, hinder the cartels and start making a
    difference.
        Senator Moody. And in your opinion, the cooperation and
    partnership of State and local law enforcement is necessary to
    start having an effect, to reel back in some of what's happened
    over the last 4 years?
        Sheriff Barnes. I think that even before 4 years ago, and
    even more now, it's necessary to collaborate, develop
    partnerships--in a vertical fashion, with our Federal, State,
    and locals, and horizontally across those same planes, Federal
    agency to Federal agency, State to State, local to local--and
    have the more intentional conversation and, quite honestly, a
    collaborative, coordinated effort to be on the offense rather
    than playing the defense. We've been on the defense too long in
    responding to the cartels. They're going to pivot around us. We
    need to be ahead of their next move, to outmaneuver them and
    anticipate what they're going to do next.
        Senator Moody. A devastating crisis certainly requires
    strong actions to solve it. When we first started using the
    term, ``Just Say No''--I say we, although I was very young at
    the time. I don't know about you all, I was very young. When
    Nancy Reagan first just said, ``Just Say No,'' we were in a
    crisis of overdose deaths in our Nation. We lost a little over
    3,000 nationwide a year. We now lose 110,000 Americans every
    year. And I think it's important, when we use the word,
    ``crisis,'' over and over so that we don't become immune to
    that, and that we recognize the magnitude of what we are
    dealing with, that we remember what we used to frame as a
    crisis is now a national travesty. And if anyone says that this
    hasn't kneecapped the strength of our Nation, they do not know
    what they are talking about.
        And so I want to thank, again, Chairman Grassley for
    calling this hearing. Again, just to put it in perspective,
    we're in the 119th Congress. This is our first non-nomination
    hearing in this Committee, and it was on fentanyl, the number
    one killer of working- and fighting-age Americans. You were a
    part of this. This is a big deal, moving forward. And hopefully
    the energy that not just our witnesses today brought but the
    energy of everyone in this room, especially those that stood up
    and have felt this for so long and have directed that passion
    and that emotion toward change and progress, the 119th Congress
    hears you. We see you.
        And I'm going to be a squealer, to make sure that they take
    action and move forward. So, we appreciate you being here
    today. We appreciate all the witnesses for being here today. I
    used to be a judge before I went into this crazy, chaotic world
    of politics. I'm feeling back at home. The meeting is
    adjourned. Thank you so much.
        [Whereupon, at 1:24 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
        [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

       Responses of Jaime Puerta to Questions Submitted by Senator Hirono

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                A P P E N D I X

    The following submissions are available at:

      https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-119shrg61321/pdf/CHRG-
        119shrg
        61321-add1.pdf

    Submitted by Chairman Grassley:

     Alcantara, D.C., January 29, 2025, letter........................     4

     Alcantara, Sandy, January 29, 2025, letter.......................     5

     American Academy of Pain Medicine, et al., February 3, 2025,
        letter........................................................     6

     Arwine, Laurie, statement........................................     9

     Association of State Criminal Investigative Agencies, et al.,
        January 31, 2025, letter......................................    12

     Ayala, Vanessa, letter--Redacted.................................    14

     Badura, August, September 6, 2023, letter........................    16

     Badura, Lauri, February 3, 2025, letter..........................    17

     Barron, April, letter............................................    19

     Baumgard, Julie, statement.......................................    22

     Bothell, Jeanine, statement......................................    23

     Chandler, Shelley, letter........................................    24

     Chvala, Susan, January 23, 2025, letter--Redacted................    25

     DeShazo, Sharon, and Family, letter..............................    28

     Didier, Chris, January 31, 2025, letter--Redacted................    29

     Dillenbeck, Laurie, Jared, and Family, January 24, 2025, letter--
        Redacted......................................................    31

     Eastwood, Karen, January 31, 2025, letter--Redacted..............    33

     Ellington, Dave and Cheryl, January 22, 2025, letter--Redacted...    34

     Family of Daulton Ian Finlayson, statement--Redacted.............    35

     Family of Heath, statement.......................................    42

     Family of Jessica Anne May, statement............................    43

     Family of Lauren Renee Cole, statement...........................    44

     Family of Romello, statement.....................................    47

     Father of Nicholas Jordan Di Marco, ``I Can't Wait Until
        Tomorrow,'' poem..............................................    48

     Federation for American Immigration Reform, statement............    49

     Figueredo, Kristie, January 22, 2025, letter--Redacted...........    52

     Filson, Steve and Cheri, January 30, 2025, letter................    53

     Fraternal Order of Police, January 30, 2025, letter..............    54

     Fritz, Arnie, January 24, 2025, letter--Redacted.................    56

     Globe, Alden and Susan, statement................................    57

     Hornsby, Antoinette, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted..........    58

     Howland, Deborah, letter.........................................    59

     Illinois Drug Enforcement Officers Association, February 2, 2025,
        letter........................................................    61

     Iowa Narcotics Officers Association, letter......................    63

     Jones, Karen, letter, September 2023.............................    64

     Kitts, Sharon, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted................    65

     Knight, Julie, January 30, 2025, letter--Redacted................    66

    Submitted by Chairman Grassley (continued):

     LaDue, Megan, letter.............................................    67

     Leonardi, Mona, February 1, 2025, letter--Redacted...............    68

     Loberg, Michelle, letter--Redacted...............................    70

     McLeod-Fritz, Eileen, September 2023, letter.....................    72

     Mertz, N. Dawn, February 3, 2025, letter.........................    73

     Minten, Kim, letter--Redacted....................................    75

     Mother of Calvin, letter.........................................    76

     Mother of Luca Manuel, letter....................................    77

     Mullins, Sheila, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted..............    78

     National Association of Police Organizations, January 29, 2025,
        letter........................................................    80

     National District Attorneys Association, February 2, 2025, letter    81

     Peace Officers Research Association of California, February 6,
        2025, letter..................................................    83

     Price, Barrye L., Ph.D., CADCA, January 31, 2025, letter.........    84

     Riebl Family, letter.............................................    85

     Sautter, Adrienne, statement--Redacted...........................    87

     Sedivy, Miki, statement--Redacted................................    88

     Shamash, Juli, January 25, 2025, letter..........................    92

     Sibling of Sylvia, July 18, 2023, letter.........................    95

     Silvano, Andrea Jo, letter.......................................    96

     Stadick, Michelle, January 28, 2025, letter--Redacted............   100

     Swan, Greg, July 14, 2023, letter................................   101

     Swan, Jack, July 14, 2023, letter................................   103

     Swan, Tamara, July 14, 2023, letter..............................   104

     Theriault, Tricia, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted............   105

     Thomas, Andrea, letter--Redacted.................................   109

     Urban, Diane, January 29, 2025, letter--Redacted.................   111

     Vasquez, Geralyn, statement......................................   113

     Venditto, Carol, January 26, 2025, letter--Redacted..............   116

     Webster, Kim, letter, September 2023.............................   118

     Wilkie, Caryn, January 29, 2025, letter..........................   119

     Wilson, Cheryl, January 27, 2025, letter--Redacted...............   121

     Wintheiser, Jody, letter, September 2023.........................   123

     Worman, Dave and Sharon, January 23, 2025, letter--Redacted......   124

     Zingler, Becky, letter, September 2023...........................   125

    Submitted by Ranking Member Durbin:

     American Academy of Pain Medicine, et al., February 3, 2025,
        letter........................................................   126

     Arnold, Julianna, February 3, 2025, letter--Redacted.............   129

     Badura, Lauri, February 3, 2025, letter..........................   131

     Bolesta, Richard and Sangeeta, statement.........................   133

     Chapman, Samuel P., January 30, 2025, letter.....................   134

     Elisha S., resident, Euclid, Ohio, statement.....................   136

     Family of Daulton Ian Finlayson, statement--Redacted.............   137

     Flores, Carol, statement.........................................   144

     Fox, Malia, statement............................................   145

     Fraternal Order of Police, January 30, 2025, letter..............   148

     Gray, Lynn, statement............................................   150

     Hornsby, Antoinette, statement...................................   151

     Iowa Narcotics Officers' Association, letter.....................   152

     Jessica C., resident, Cleveland, Ohio, statement.................   153

     LaDue, Megan, statement--Redacted................................   155

     Mecchia, Heather, statement--Redacted............................   157

     Park, Ju Nyeong, Ph.D., M.H.S., statement........................   159
    Submitted by Ranking Member Durbin (continued):

     Rierson, Sheri, February 1, 2025, letter.........................   168

     Roebuck, Bethany, February 5, 2025, letter.......................   169

     Shambaugh, Erika, statement......................................   171

     Taylor-Bouchard, Julie, resident, Palmer, Alaska, statement......   173

    Submitted by Senator Cruz:

     ``2 Milligrams of Fentanyl: A Lethal Dose,'' poster displayed
        during hearing................................................   175

     ``Fentanyl Carnage Skyrockets Under Biden's Open Borders,''
        poster displayed during hearing...............................   176

    Submitted by Senator Kennedy:

     ``Federal Mandatory Minimum Drug Sentencing,'' poster displayed
        during hearing................................................   177

    Submitted by Senator Booker:

     ACLU of Nevada, et al., 190 advocacy groups, February 3, 2025,
        letter........................................................   178

     American Society of Addiction Medicine, February 3, 2025, letter.   186

     Booker, Hon. Cory A., et al., letter to Attorney General Merrick
        Garland and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
        Department of Justice, and Secretary Xavier Becerra, U.S.
        Department of Health & Human Services, June 27, 2022..........   192

     Booker, Hon. Cory A., letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland
        and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
        Department of Justice, January 10, 2024.......................   198

        attachment....................................................   201

     Booker, Hon. Cory A., et al., letter to Attorney General Merrick
        Garland and Drug Enforcement Administrator Anne Milgram, U.S.
        Department of Justice, July 2, 2024...........................   204

        attachment 1..................................................   209

        attachment 2..................................................   212

     Booker, Hon. Cory A., letter to Attorney General Pam Bondi and
        Acting Drug Enforcement Administrator Derek S. Maltz, U.S.
        Department of Justice, February 5, 2025.......................   213

        attachment 1..................................................   217

        attachment 2..................................................   220

        attachment 3..................................................   225

        attachment 4..................................................   230

     Ousterman, Susan, February 3, 2025, letter.......................   233

     R Street Explainer, "How a Drug's Schedule I Status Restricts
        Research," factsheet..........................................   236

     Singer, Jeffrey A., M.D., FACS, February 4, 2025, letter.........   238

     Uriarte, Carlos Felipe, U.S. Department of Justice Office of
        Legislative Affairs, December 9, 2022, letter to Hon. Cory A.
        Booker........................................................   241

                                     [all]