[Senate Hearing 119-130]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                        S. Hrg. 119-130

                        NTSB PRELIMINARY REPORT: 
                        THE DCA MIDAIR COLLISION

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION, SPACE, AND
                               INNOVATION

                                 of the

                         COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
                      SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                             MARCH 27, 2025
                               __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and 
                             Transportation
               
               
               
               
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                Available online: http://www.govinfo.gov  
                                ______
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

61-288 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
       SENATE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                       TED CRUZ, Texas, Chairman
JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             MARIA CANTWELL, Washington, 
ROGER WICKER, Mississippi              Ranking
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii
DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 EDWARD MARKEY, Massachusetts
MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee          GARY PETERS, Michigan
TODD YOUNG, Indiana                  TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin
TED BUDD, North Carolina             TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
JOHN CURTIS, Utah                    BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico
BERNIE MORENO, Ohio                  JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
TIM SHEEHY, Montana                  JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  ANDY KIM, New Jersey
CYNTHIA LUMMIS, Wyoming              LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
                 Brad Grantz, Republican Staff Director
           Nicole Christus, Republican Deputy Staff Director
                     Liam McKenna, General Counsel
                   Lila Harper Helms, Staff Director
                 Melissa Porter, Deputy Staff Director
                     Jonathan Hale, General Counsel
                     
                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION, SPACE, AND INNOVATION

JERRY MORAN, Kansas, Chairman        TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois, Ranking
JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
TED BUDD, North Carolina             JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
ERIC SCHMITT, Missouri               JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
TIM SHEEHY, Montana                  ANDY KIM, New Jersey
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia


































                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on March 27, 2025...................................     1
Statement of Senator Moran.......................................     1
Statement of Senator Duckworth...................................     3
Statement of Senator Cruz........................................     5
Statement of Senator Cantwell....................................     7
    Letter dated July 10, 2023 to Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton from 
      Zephranie Buetow, Assistant Secretary for Legislative 
      Affairs, U.S. Department of Homeland Security..............   106
Statement of Senator Budd........................................   108
Statement of Senator Schmitt.....................................   113
Statement of Senator Hickenlooper................................   115
Statement of Senator Sullivan....................................   117
Statement of Senator Klobuchar...................................   119
Statement of Senator Markey......................................   123

                               Witnesses

Hon. Jennifer Homendy, Chairman, National Transportation Safety 
  Board (NTSB)...................................................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    10
Chris Rocheleau, Acting Administrator, Federal Aviation 
  Administration.................................................    92
    Prepared statement...........................................    93
Brigadier General Matthew Braman, Director of Army Aviation, 
  Department of the Army.........................................    94
    Prepared statement...........................................    96

                                Appendix

Response to written questions submitted to Hon. Jennifer Homendy 
  by:
    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................   133
    Hon. Shelley Moore Capito....................................   133
    Hon. Maria Cantwell..........................................   133
    Hon. Tammy Duckworth.........................................   134
    Hon. Jacky Rosen.............................................   136
Response to written questions submitted to Chris Rocheleau by:
    Hon. Ted Cruz................................................   137
    Hon. John Thune..............................................   138
    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................   139
    Hon. Shelley Moore Capito....................................   140
    Hon. Amy Klobuchar...........................................   143
    Hon. Tammy Duckworth.........................................   144
    Hon. Jacky Rosen.............................................   145
Response to written questions submitted to Brigadier General 
  Matthew Braman by:
    Hon. Ted Cruz................................................   146
    Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................   146
    Hon. Shelley Moore Capito....................................   148
    Hon. Maria Cantwell..........................................   148

 
                        NTSB PRELIMINARY REPORT: 
                        THE DCA MIDAIR COLLISION

                              ----------                              

                        THURSDAY, MARCH 27, 2025

                               U.S. Senate,
   Subcommittee on Aviation, Space, and Innovation,
        Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran, 
Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Moran [presiding], Cruz, Sullivan, Budd, 
Schmitt, Sheehy, Capito, Duckworth, Cantwell, Klobuchar, 
Markey, and Hickenlooper.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Senator Moran. The Committee will come to order. The 
Subcommittee on Aviation and Space of the United States 
Senate's Committee on Commerce convenes today for what I 
consider a very important hearing.
    Fifty-seven days ago, our Nation witnessed the first major 
U.S. commercial passenger flight crash in nearly 16 years. 
Families had their loved ones taken from them in an instant. 
Children lost their parents, husbands lost their wives, a 
Kansas couple lost their daughter, and a rural community in our 
state, called Kiowa, lost a husband and wife, a pillar of the 
community, who were traveling to visit their daughter in 
college.
    I have taken that American flight before. There were many 
Kansans on that flight and several of the members of this 
Committee lost constituents on the American Airlines Flight 
5342, and the Army's Black Hawk helicopter.
    In addition to the families who are grieving, our first 
responders made heroic efforts to find survivors and save 
lives, and the investigators have spent nearly 2 months 
searching the Potomac River and working to reconstruct wreckage 
to find answers.
    It has been a difficult 57 days.
    Sixty-seven lives that were lost on January 29 were taken 
prematurely in an accident that, by all indications, should 
have been avoided. Now the families of these victims, the 
Federal Aviation Administration, the National Transportation 
Safety Board, the U.S. Army, and Congress are tasked with how 
to best honor the memory and make certain accidents like this 
never happen again.
    I want to highlight NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy and NTSB 
Board for their diligence and transparency throughout the 
investigations. That job obviously is not an easy one, but it 
has been done with professionalism and care. It is their work 
that brings us here today to review.
    NTSB's preliminary report into the midair collision 
provides insight into the events of January 29, but many 
questions, certainly in my view, many questions still need to 
be answered, not only by the NTSB's investigation but by our 
Nation's aviation safety regulator and by the Army.
    The preliminary report provides alarming statistics in 
using existing FAA data on the risks at DCA to aviation safety. 
That data includes, and NTSB provides, these numbers. In a 13-
year period, not a single month went by without at least one, 
quote, ``close call'' between a helicopter and a commercial jet 
operating at DCA. Between October 21 and December 24, there 
were 85 incidents where the lateral separation between a 
commercial jet and a helicopter was less than 1,500 feet and 
the vertical separation was less than 200 feet. And during that 
same timeframe, there were more 15,000, quote, ``close 
proximity events'' between a helicopter and a commercial 
airplane, the NTSB findings that it is possible for a 
helicopter on Route 4 to have as little as 75 feet of vertical 
separation from airplanes on approach to Runway 33.
    I commend the NTSB for issuing urgent safety 
recommendations, and I commend the FAA in acting to implement 
them, particularly the permanent restriction of nonessential 
helicopter operations at DCA. However, I want to know how, with 
these statistics in the FAA files, why prior to January 29 the 
agency failed to improve safety protocols at Reagan National 
Airport?
    This Committee worked tirelessly to pass an FAA 
reauthorization bill last Congress that prioritized safety, 
enabling our industry to continue innovating and equipping the 
FAA with the resources necessary to keep our skies safe. We 
need a permanent, confirmed FAA administrator to implement this 
important framework for the future of the industry. President 
Trump recently nominated Bryan Bedford to lead the FAA, and I 
look forward to his testimony before this Committee in the near 
future.
    I commend Secretary Duffy for his push to modernize 
airspace, and I look forward to this Subcommittee working 
together to keep America's traveling public safe and improve 
public trust in our air travel system.
    Demand for commercial aviation is expected to grow 4 
percent each year over the next two decades, and along with new 
technology and commercial spacecraft entering our airspace. 
This will further place demands upon our airspace and require 
the tools and guidelines to ensure a safe airspace.
    American Airlines Flight 5342 and Priority Air Transport 25 
carried innocent civilians, selfless servicemembers, talented 
figure skaters, fathers and mothers, husbands and wives, sons 
and daughters. And while Congress' response to January 29 ought 
to be deliberate and not executed in a knee-jerk fashion, 
Congress must make certain that this loss of life occurs never 
again.
    In this early investigation, we have many unresolved 
questions. Among those for me is why was the ADS-B Out not 
transmitting on the Black Hawk? Was it turned off or was there 
equipment malfunction? Why had precautions not been taken to 
mitigate the risks of collisions between commercial aircraft 
and rotor wing near DCA, the statistics I just described? What 
is the severity of this issue at other airports where combined 
traffic is also high? What explains the discrepancy between the 
altitude readings of the crew of the Black Hawk? Why did the 
Black Hawk's invalid pressure altitude data influence other 
systems that utilized this source? How the use if night vision 
goggles may have impacted the Black Hawk helicopter pilots' 
line of vision? And finally, how should the FAA evaluate 
combining duties of air traffic controllers?
    I am appreciative for our witnesses being here today. I 
note they each take this circumstance seriously. I am anxious 
to hear the discussion that they have with this Committee, and 
the end result should be a better understanding as well as 
working to identify and prevent tragedies today and into the 
future.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of this Subcommittee, 
Senator Duckworth, the Senator from Illinois, for her opening 
remarks.

               STATEMENT OF HON. TAMMY DUCKWORTH, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS

    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Chairman Moran, and thank you 
for your continued partnership on aviation safety issues. I 
enjoy being your partner on this Subcommittee. And I want to 
thank both the Chairman of the Commerce Committee and the 
Ranking Member for your work with us, as well.
    I do want to extend, first and foremost, my condolences to 
the family members of the victims, some of whom are here with 
us today, both on the commercial airliner as well as the family 
members who lost the brave soldiers in the Black Hawk 
helicopter. These are folks who put on the colors of this great 
nation, committed themselves to defending this great nation, 
and were at their duty station, training to protect and defend, 
as they lost their lives.
    I also want to thank the first responders and everyone at 
NTSB for their tireless work to get us the answers that we all 
are looking for.
    There is a saying, and many of you have heard it, our 
aviation regulations are written in blood. So we have an 
obligation to the victims to learn what went wrong and prevent 
a collision like this from ever happening again. As a former 
Black Hawk pilot myself--and I have flown helicopters out of 
very congested airspace at Midway Airport. In fact, I commanded 
the Midway unit for a number of years--I know how challenging 
this type of mixed-use airspace can be. But a challenging 
airspace is no excuse. This should never have happened.
    This collision was horrendous, and it is heartbreaking, but 
it was not a surprise. Our alarm bells about potential 
collisions have been ringing for years. Coming out of the 
pandemic, we saw a frightening rise in close calls and an 
erosion of our aviation system's margin of safety. We have 
known for years that we need more air traffic controllers and 
more safety technology. The warnings have been clear, and in 
some cases right here within this Committee, and a bipartisan 
consensus on the need to upgrade the equipment and the need to 
train more air traffic controllers.
    In November 2023, we held a hearing on close calls. NTSB 
Chair Homendy testified, citing staffing shortages, fatigue, 
distraction, deviation from FAA regulations, and a lack of 
runway safety technology, and she warned, and I quote, ``The 
concerning uptick in such incidents is a clear warning sign 
that the U.S. aviation system is sharply strained. We cannot 
wait until a fatal accident forces action. We must act before 
there is a tragedy,'' end quote.
    Chairwoman just sadly predicted what was going to happen, 
and you said that in 2023.
    At the same hearing, the National Air Traffic Controllers 
Association's President told us that staffing shortages were so 
bad that many air traffic controllers were working mandatory 
overtime, 6-day work weeks, and 10-hour days. He warned, and I 
quote, ``Over the long term, this will continue to introduce 
unnecessary risks into the system,'' end quote.
    So we passed, in a bipartisan way, FAA reauthorization bill 
last year, to help rebuild our aviation workforce and make 
critical investments in safety. The FAA is still implementing 
that new law, but clearly Congress has more work to do to shore 
up aviation safety in this great nation.
    In December 2024, we held another hearing. The GAO told us 
that more than 75 percent of our aging air traffic controller 
systems are unsustainable, or potentially unsustainable.
    The deadly collision at DCA is not the only aviation safety 
incident so far this year. We have seen deadly crashes in 
Philadelphia and Alaska, a crash landing in Toronto that 
miraculously everyone survived, even after the aircraft flipped 
upside down. Earlier this month we saw passengers standing on 
the wing of a 737 aircraft in Denver to escape a fire. And near 
misses keep happening. In February, a Southwest flight came 
within 200 feet of colliding with a Flexjet plane at Midway 
Airport.
    At such a dangerous time for aviation safety, when we need 
to bolster our workforce and invest in technology, the last 
thing we should be doing is making cuts to the FAA. Yet two 
weeks after the DCA crash, the Trump administration began 
firing hundreds of FAA employees. I say all of this because it 
is important context we need to keep in mind during today's 
hearing. We need to understand what happened at DCA, but we 
also need to understand how this fits into a much larger threat 
to aviation safety.
    According to the NTSB, DCA had many close calls in recent 
years, between October 2021 and December 2024. As the Chairman 
has said, there were more than 15,000 incidences of commercial 
aircraft coming close to rotary-wing aircraft. Eighty-five of 
those had a vertical separation of less than 200 feet. And last 
year there were also two high-profile runway close calls at 
DCA.
    NTSB's preliminary report raises several questions, most 
notably, how did FAA allow a helicopter route to come within 75 
feet of a runway approach? FAA has deconflicted the airspace, 
but DCA is not the only airport in the country where airplanes 
and helicopters share congested airspace. Several of us raised 
this at an earlier briefing, and thankfully FAA is now 
evaluating eight cities where this may also be an issue, 
including in Chicago.
    We also need to know more about what helicopter pilots knew 
about their altitude. Was their equipment working properly? 
Voice recordings showed that the pilot and instructor pilot 
indicated different altitudes as they approach the Key Bridge, 
and NTSB determined that some of the altitude information on 
the helicopter's data recorder was invalid.
    There are also questions about ADS-B. Why was the 
helicopter not transmitting ADS-B Out? Do commercial aircraft 
need to be equipped with ADS-B In? How come so many helicopters 
are allowed exemptions from the ADS-B Out requirement at DCA?
    So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and I 
yield back, Chairman.
    Senator Moran. Ranking Member Duckworth, thank you very 
much for your opening statement. She almost called me the 
Ranking Member.
    Senator Duckworth. I did.
    Senator Moran. There is no reason to apologize. Senator 
Duckworth was the previous Chairman of this Subcommittee, and I 
had a great opportunity to work with her as the Ranking Member. 
And I would indicate, certainly to Senator Duckworth but to 
those in the audience, this is a Subcommittee that will set 
partisanship aside, and we will continue to work closely 
together to find the answers that we are looking for today, and 
beyond finding the answers, making certain that changes are 
made to prevent this tragedy.
    We are joined by the Chairman of the full Committee, 
Senator Cruz. I appreciate his presence here and his leadership 
on this issue from the very beginning. And I now recognize him 
for his opening statement.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. TED CRUZ, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS

    Chairman Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to 
the Ranking Member, as well. I want to thank each of our 
witnesses for being here today and I want to extend a 
particular welcome to the family members of the 67 crash 
victims who are here today for this hearing. I have met with 
many of you since the crash and each of you have my very 
deepest condolences for your unimaginable loss.
    This crash involving American Airlines Flight 5342 and the 
Army Black Hawk helicopter was preventable. It did not have to 
happen. And I want you to know I am committed to using the 
power of this Committee to determine if any policy failures led 
to this crash and making certain that Congress acts to correct 
them.
    This accident marks the first time a commercial crash in 
the U.S. has led to mass fatalities in over 15 years. While 
America's National Airspace System has kept Americans safe for 
decades, this critical juncture shows that more action must 
take place to enhance the safety of our system.
    The hearing today will examine the factors leading up to 
the midair collision 300 feet above the Potomac River, whether 
the Army's practice of disabling ADS-B Out is a glaring safety 
concern. Whether the FAA missed warning signs with thousands of 
instances where helicopters and commercial aircraft at DCA came 
too close to colliding. Whether the communications between the 
air traffic controller and both the pilots of the American 
Airlines flight and the Black Hawk helicopter was inadequate.
    The families of the American Airlines Flight 5342 victims 
deserve answers. Congress deserves answers. And the American 
flying public deserves answers to these important questions.
    The NTSB does terrific work. I am grateful to Chairman 
Jennifer Homendy and her team for their thorough investigation 
of this accident. The preliminary report being discussed today 
is factual--it does not include analysis nor does it include 
findings. It is just one step in what will be a lengthy and 
ongoing investigation. This Committee will closely follow how 
that investigation proceeds and look forward to the NTSB's full 
findings.
    Some actions, however, cannot wait.
    Aviation safety is dependent on what is called the Swiss 
cheese model. Each layer of cheese represents a defense against 
an identified risk, building redundancy into the system to plug 
holes and prevent accidents. After decades of advancements, the 
U.S. aviation system has been held up worldwide as the gold 
standard of safety. The FAA's Air Traffic Organization depends 
on thousands of talented air traffic controllers, hundreds of 
millions of dollars in annual investments to sustain 
technologies used to operate the air system, and billions more 
invested in technologies and facilities across the system.
    Even with these significant investments, the air traffic 
system is failing. Facilities, which are falling apart, are 
short-staffed, and projections show the shortages will last for 
years. Over the weekend, the NOTAM system broke down for a 
third time in just two years. Congress has provided tens of 
millions of dollars in the past two years to modernize the 
NOTAM system, and it has broken down already twice in this 
calendar year.
    President Trump and Secretary Duffy have pledged to take 
action to improve the air traffic control system. I plan to 
lead this Committee in passing legislation to do the same. We 
must provide resources for needed short-, medium-, and long-
term improvements that chart the path to success and 
sustainment for the air traffic system.
    Earlier this week, I issued a call to aviation stakeholders 
for specific ideas to improve the air traffic system. I asked 
for concrete proposals--taking nothing off the table 
prematurely to make sure that whatever resources and 
authorities Congress provides to the Administration will make a 
lasting difference. My proposal will complement the Trump 
administration's forthcoming plan.
    What the tragedy of Flight 5342 shows us is it is never too 
early to act to improve aviation safety. I want to thank the 
families of the victims for taking your enormous grief and 
channeling it into energy, channeling it into advocacy, 
channeling it into standing up and speaking out for other 
families, flying on other flights, fighting for them so they 
don't have to endure the grief and loss that each of you is 
enduring.
    It is my hope we can spend the coming months in the wake of 
this tragedy working seriously to plug safety gaps and to 
ensure that an accident of this magnitude never happens again. 
Thank you.
    Senator Moran. Chairman Cruz, thank you for your opening 
remarks, your leadership today, and your leadership into the 
future.
    We now recognize the Ranking Member of the full Committee, 
the Senator from Washington State, Senator Cantwell.

               STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL, 
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Chairman Moran. Thank you 
Ranking Member Duckworth. Thank you full Committee Chairman 
Cruz. We are here today to examine one of the most devastating 
accidents in U.S. history. With 67 lives lost on January 29, we 
have a responsibility to not only understand what happened, but 
to fix it, so that it never happens again.
    I want to recognize the families who are here with us today 
and express my condolences, but also my appreciation for the 
diligence that you now are demonstrating by being here today. 
Too much of aviation safety in the last several years has been 
left to the advocacies of families. We should not have to rely 
on you. You should be able to mourn your losses. But we need 
you to continue to advocate for these important policies.
    I welcome NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy, FAA Acting 
Administrator Chris Rocheleau, and Brigadier General Matt 
Braman, who is the Director of Army Aviation. You are here to 
provide us an update on this collision and why a Black Hawk 
helicopter on a training flight collided with this American 
Airlines flight.
    As we seek answers, the NTSB's preliminary report has 
alarming facts. First, in the 3-year period leading up to the 
collision, commercial airplane and helicopters got within 400 
feet of each other on 15,214 occasions, within 200 feet on 85 
occasions. FAA's air traffic managers approve helicopter route 
charts annually, so as the data raised questions about the 
safety of these routes, the ball clearly falls into the FAA's 
court as to whether to act on this data or make changes where 
the helicopters can fly in DCA.
    A helicopter at 200 feet would only have 75 vertical feet 
separation from an airplane approaching on Runway 33. These 
findings reveal a very systemic issue that demands answers from 
our witnesses today. Acting Administrator Rocheleau, I want to 
know: Why did the FAA not act on 15,000 reports of dangerous 
proximity? How were these helicopter routes allowed to remain 
when alarm bells were literally going off in the towers?
    This lack of oversight must change. The Army Black Hawk 
helicopter was not transmitting what is known as ADS-B Out 
signal, although we do not know why. What we do know is that 
the military told our colleague, House Delegate Eleanor Holmes 
Norton, in 2023, that the military operates 100 percent of its 
flights in the National Capital Region without this safety 
technology--100 percent of the time. On March 7, I wrote 
Secretary Hegseth about this issue, asking to respond by March 
21. I have still heard nothing back. I do not like this 
silence. It is deafening.
    General Braman, I have questions about these policies, 
especially given the FAA's 2019 rule stating that the 
deactivation of the ADS-B Out technology, pursuant to an 
exemption, was not to be routine. Well, the Holmes letter says 
that not only was it far from routine, 100 percent of the time 
they operated with this exemption.
    Acting Administrator Rocheleau, your agency gave government 
airspace users a loophole. What we want to know now is why this 
was allowed to continue if we had this data and information and 
are there any other agencies that are acting with ADS-B Out 
that we have not addressed yet?
    The FAA rule needs to change. Chair Homendy, I will be 
asking you about ADS-B requirements. In 2010, the FAA said that 
it was premature to require this kind of equipment on 
operators. Yet, at the same time the FAA made that decision, 
just two years earlier, you wrote a letter saying, disagreeing 
with them, but saying that, quote, ``the equipage of aircraft 
with ADS-B Out in capacity will provide for an immediate, 
substantial contribution to safety, especially during 
operations in and around airports.''
    Why did we not listen? Fifteen years later, commercial 
aircraft are still not operating with this. If the American 
Airlines regional jet had been equipped with this ADS-B In, it 
would have been able to receive the Black Hawk's transmission, 
giving it better intelligence on positioning.
    Tim Lilley, the father of the pilot from the commercial 
aircraft, who he himself is also a Black Hawk helicopter pilot, 
and his wife Sherri, spent many years working at Gulfstream. 
They know a thing or two about aviation. They gave me a list of 
actions they hope Congress can take to improve safety.
    Mr. Chairman, we all need to work together on this critical 
safety legislation, legislation to close the ADS-B Out 
loophole, require more commercial jets to have ADS-B In 
capacity when operating near our Nation's busiest airports, and 
have stronger information sharing between our military and 
civilian authorities.
    This is not just about policy. It is about saving lives. To 
my colleagues, I hope that we can work together in a bipartisan 
fashion. Since the FAA Reauthorization Act did require NextGen 
completion by 2025, we also directed the FAA to develop a plan 
for accelerating airline equipage with NextGen technologies and 
authorized $17 billion through 2028 to modernize and replace 
the FAA ATC systems and infrastructure.
    So, I do want to say, I do not believe in cutting the 
services, the benefits, or the training of our air traffic 
controllers. We need them, and we need them to do their job. I 
supported Senator Cruz's efforts to continue to advance more 
training centers to get more air traffic controllers trained. 
But now we need to learn this painful lesson. We need to make 
sure that we are preventing future accidents from happening. We 
must be unwavering in this effort.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Senator Moran. Ranking Member Cantwell, thank you for your 
opening statement. I will now introduce our panelists who are 
here to testify.
    Our first witness Jennifer--I am sorry. I should put a 
title before you.
    Our first witness is Chairman Jennifer Homendy of the 
National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB is an 
independent Federal agency that investigates every civil 
aviation accident in the United States and significant events 
in other modes of transportation such as rail, transit, 
roadway, and pipeline. She has served as the Chairwoman since 
2021, and is a member of the NTSB Board since 2018.
    Our second witness is Mr. Chris Rocheleau, Acting 
Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration. Mr. 
Rocheleau has served at the FAA for more than 20 years, in 
multiple roles, including as Deputy Associate Administrator for 
Aviation Safety.
    And our third witness is Brigadier General Matthew Braman, 
Director of Army Aviation for the Headquarters of the 
Department of the Army. Throughout his service, General Braman 
has deployed over 36 months, supporting overseas contingency 
operations. And I thank you, General, for your service.
    I now recognize Chairman Jennifer Homendy to deliver her 
opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF HON. JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIRMAN,
       NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD (NTSB)

    Ms. Homendy. Thank you, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member 
Duckworth, Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and members 
of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to provide you with an 
update on our investigation of the midair collision that 
occurred over the Potomac River near Reagan National Airport on 
January 29.
    The NTSB knows tragedy all too well. We experience it every 
day, which is why we fight so hard for safety. Yesterday, we 
remembered the six lives lost during the collapse of the Key 
Bridge in Baltimore a year ago. Today, we once again mourn the 
67 lives lost at DCA, the 7 in Philadelphia, 10 in Nome, 
Alaska.
    We often talk about safety in terms of numbers, did 
accidents, fatalities go up or down. It is important that we 
remember today that those who died at DCA and in other 
accidents we investigate are not numbers. As you said, these 
are mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, wives, husbands, 
cousins, best friends, who won't be there with their loved ones 
for Easter egg hunts, Passover seders, the end of Ramadan, 
Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduation, all of life's 
celebrations.
    Their families and friends, whether in person or online, 
are here today. I can only imagine what they are going through, 
and I want to take a moment to again express our deepest 
sympathies to each of them. Please know that we keep you in our 
hearts as we diligently work to determine how this tragedy 
happened so no one--no one--experiences the deeply significant 
loss you must feel today.
    NTSB was on scene that night within an hour of the 
collision, and we remained there for over a month. Work 
continues to this day, including diving operations to recover 
personal effects and any remaining portions of the wreckage.
    On March 11 we released our preliminary report, which 
contains only factual information that we have gathered in the 
first few weeks, all of which can change throughout the course 
of the investigation. It does not include analysis or findings, 
nor does it determine probable cause. Those will be in our 
final report.
    But we do not wait for a final report to take action if we 
uncover critical safety issues that require immediate 
attention, which is why, in conjunction with the release of our 
preliminary report we also issued two urgent safety 
recommendations to the FAA. In both reports, we cited FAA 
surveillance data that showed between October 2021 and December 
2024, there were over 15,000 close-proximity events between 
commercial aircraft and helicopters at DCA.
    In reviewing that and other data, including airport 
operations and established helicopter routes, we determined 
that the separation distances between helicopter traffic 
operating on Route 4 and aircraft using runways 15 and 33 are 
insufficient and pose an intolerable risk to aviation safety.
    As a result, we have recommended that the FAA prohibit 
operations on Helicopter Route 4 between Haines Point and 
Wilson Bridge when those runways are being used for departures 
and arrivals. We also recommended that the FAA designate an 
alternative helicopter route that can be used to facilitate 
travel between Haines Point and the Wilson Bridge when that 
segment of Route 4 is closed.
    I want to commend Secretary Duffy for his swift acceptance 
of our recommendations. The Secretary and the Acting 
Administrator and the General have been tremendous partners 
throughout the course of this investigation, and I want to 
thank them for their commitment to safety.
    I know we are all searching for answers, the right safety 
solutions. But the NTSB is the gold standard for accident 
investigations for a reason. We are thorough, and we are fact-
based. We leave no stone unturned, and we let the evidence 
guide us. Investigations take time. We have a lot of work to do 
in this investigation, from interviews to analyses of large 
volumes of documents and data to review. To air carrier 
operations that we have to review, helicopter operations, air 
traffic control, human performance, helicopter air worthiness, 
flight recorders, and more. In total, we have about 40 NTSB 
experts leading this investigation, in collaboration with the 
parties and others, and we are aiming to complete this 
investigation within one year, barring, of course, any 
unforeseen circumstances.
    I want to close by thanking you for your steadfast support 
of the NTSB, and I look forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Homendy follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Hon. Jennifer Homendy, Chairwoman, National 
                      Transportation Safety Board
                      
    Good morning, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Duckworth, and members 
of the subcommittee. My name is Jennifer Homendy, and I am honored to 
serve as Chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board 
(NTSB).\1\ Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to 
provide an update regarding the NTSB's investigation the midair 
collision involving a U.S. Army Sikorsky UH-60L (under the callsign 
PAT25) and PSA Airlines dba American Airlines flight 5342, a Mitsubishi 
Heavy Industries (MHI) RJ Aviation (formerly Bombardier) CL-600-2C10 
(CRJ700) that occurred over the Potomac River in southwest Washington, 
DC, about 2048 eastern standard time (EST) on January 29, 2025.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The NTSB is an independent Federal agency charged by Congress 
with investigating and establishing the facts, circumstances, and cause 
or probable cause of all civil aviation accidents and serious incidents 
in the United States and defined accidents in all other modes of 
transportation, including roadway accidents, grade crossing incidents, 
railroad accidents, pipeline accidents, major marine casualties 
occurring on or under the navigable waters, internal waters, or the 
territorial sea of the United States, and other accidents related to 
the transportation of individuals or property when the Board decides 
the accident is catastrophic, the accident involves problems of a 
recurring character, or the investigation of the accident would carry 
out our statutory requirements. In addition, the NTSB carries out 
special studies concerning transportation safety and coordinates the 
resources of the Federal government and other organizations to aid 
victims and their family members impacted by major transportation 
disasters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The 2 pilots, 2 flight attendants, and 60 passengers aboard the 
airplane and all 3 crewmembers aboard the helicopter were fatally 
injured. Both aircraft were destroyed as a result of the accident. 
Flight 5342 was operating under the provisions of Title 14 Code of 
Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 as a scheduled domestic passenger 
flight from Wichita Dwight D. Eisenhower National Airport (ICT), 
Wichita, Kansas, to DCA, departing ICT at 1839 EST. PAT25 originated 
from Davison Army Airfield (DAA), Fort Belvoir, Virginia, at 1845 EST 
on a visual flight rules (VFR) flight plan for the pilot's annual 
standardization evaluation with the use of night vision goggles. Night 
visual meteorological conditions prevailed in the area of DCA at the 
time of the accident.
    Attached to this testimony are the following: Investigation 
Preliminary Report and Urgent Recommendation Report.
    Before I begin, I want to take a moment and recognize the families 
and friends of those who lost loved ones in this tragedy. On behalf of 
the NTSB, I want to express my deepest condolences and our sympathies 
to each of you. Our mission is to determine what happened and why it 
happened so no one else experiences the loss you feel today. We keep 
you in mind every day, as we carry out our solemn mission to prevent 
future tragedy.
    NTSB launched to the accident site that night and investigators 
remained at DCA for approximately four weeks. Work still continues on 
site, including diving operations to recover personal effects and any 
remaining portions of the wreckage.
    As part of the investigative process, the NTSB invited qualified 
parties to participate in the investigation. These included Federal 
Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. Army, PSA Airlines, GE 
Aerospace, Sikorsky, National Air Traffic Controllers Association, Air 
Line Pilots Association, Association of Flight Attendants, 
International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, Collins 
Aerospace, and the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority.
    The parties were formed into specialized investigative groups led 
by NTSB group chairs in the areas of Air Carrier Operations and Human 
Performance, Airplane Structures, Airplane Systems, Powerplants, 
Helicopter Operations and Human Performance, Air Traffic Control and 
Human Performance, Helicopter Airworthiness, Survival Factors, and 
Flight Recorders. This week, we formed another investigative group 
focused on Data Analysis.
    There was a whole of government response to this major event, and I 
want to recognize some of the assistance we received in recovering the 
victims and wreckage: Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority, D.C. 
Fire and EMS Department, and other first responders from Virginia and 
Maryland, the U.S. Coast Guard, the Federal Bureau of Investigations, 
the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and U.S. Navy Supervisor of Salvage 
and Diving (SUPSALV).
    On March 11, the NTSB released the preliminary report for this 
investigation, attached in full. It should be emphasized that, as with 
all preliminary reports, this document contains only factual 
information pertinent to the investigation. This information is 
preliminary and subject to change and does not include analysis or a 
probable cause of the collision, all of which will be issued at a later 
date as we continue to thoroughly investigate wherever the evidence may 
lead. There is a lot of work left to be done.
    However, as is always the case with our investigations, NTSB does 
not need to wait until we determine a probable cause to take action if 
our investigation uncovers facts that demonstrate an intolerable risk 
to safety. In such cases, we do not hesitate to take urgent action, and 
in this case that is exactly what we have done.
    In conjunction with the release of our preliminary report, we also 
issued two urgent safety recommendations (also attached) to the Federal 
Aviation Administration (FAA) concerning the helicopter routes near 
DCA. NTSB urgent recommendations require immediate action to prevent 
similar accidents or incidents. When we issue them, we believe a 
critical safety issue must be addressed, with no delay.
    In the case of this investigation, while reviewing airport 
operations and prior incidents, including near mid-air collision 
events, and while reviewing the existing helicopter routes for 
helicopter traffic near DCA, NTSB determined that the existing 
separation distances between helicopter traffic operating on Route 4 
and aircraft landing on runway 33 (the route and runway, respectively, 
that were in use during the crash) are insufficient, and pose an 
intolerable risk to aviation safety by increasing the chances of a 
midair collision at DCA. We've therefore issued an urgent 
recommendation to the FAA to prohibit operations on Helicopter Route 4 
between Hains Point and the Wilson Bridge when runways 15 and 33 are 
being used for departures and arrivals at DCA.
    Recognizing that a total closure of this route when the stated 
runways are in use would restrict a vital aviation corridor used for 
law enforcement activity, Coast Guard patrols, and continuity of 
government operations, and recognizing the potential for increased risk 
by adding to air traffic controller workload, we also recommended that 
the FAA designate an alternative helicopter route that can be used to 
facilitate travel between Hains Point and the Wilson Bridge when that 
segment of Route 4 is closed.
    These recommendations were made because information gathered from 
voluntary safety reporting programs and the FAA regarding encounters 
between helicopters and commercial aircraft near DCA showed that, from 
2011 through 2024, a vast majority of reported events occurred on 
approach to landing. Initial analysis found that at least one traffic 
alert and collision avoidance system, or TCAS, resolution advisory (RA) 
was triggered per month at DCA due to proximity to a helicopter. The 
response to TCAS RAs, unlike traffic advisories, or TAs, are 
recommended escape maneuvers; for example, climb, descend, or level 
off. While a TA is issued when the intruding aircraft is about 20 
seconds from the closest point of approach, or 0.3 nautical miles, 
whichever occurs first, RA's indicate a collision threat and require 
immediate action.
    In over half of the encounters we reviewed, again from 2011 through 
2024, the helicopter may have been above the route altitude 
restriction. Two-thirds of these events occurred at night.
    We then reviewed commercial operations at DCA and found that, 
between October 2021 and December 2024, there were a total of 944,179 
commercial operations at DCA. These are instrument flight rules, or 
IFR, departures or arrivals. During that time, there were 15,214 
occurrences between commercial airplanes and helicopters in which there 
was a lateral separation distance of less than 1 nautical mile and 
vertical separation of less than 400 ft. There were 85 recorded events 
that involved a lateral separation of less than 1500 ft (or less than 
0.3 nautical miles) and vertical separation of less than 200 ft.
    The chart below is a cross-section of the airspace that extends 
from Runway 33's centerline, spanning from the runway to the east bank 
of the Potomac River. The figure shows the separation distance that 
would exist, according to FAA charts, with a helicopter on Route 4 and 
an airplane descending on the glideslope to runway 33. At the maximum 
altitude of just 200 ft, a helicopter operating over the eastern 
shoreline of the Potomac River would have just 75 feet of vertical 
separation from an airplane approaching runway 33, and that distance 
decreases if the helicopter is operated farther from the shoreline.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Figure 1. Cross section showing the notional separation between 
Route 4 and a PAPI-guided visual approach to runway 33, according to 
FAA charts and aerial photogrammetry analysis.

    As a result of the accident, the FAA, under the leadership of U.S. 
Department of Transportation Secretary Duffy took swift action to 
ensure safety and restrict helicopter traffic from operating over the 
Potomac River near DCA until March 31st, and we commend him for that. 
However, as that deadline nears, NTSB remains concerned about the 
significant potential for a future midair collision at DCA given the 
facts we have uncovered. I am pleased to share with you that the 
Secretary has taken our urgent recommendations very seriously, and I 
look forward to working with him, Acting Administrator Rocheleau, and 
Congress to see them implemented as we move forward with this 
investigation.
    Some investigations, understandably, get more public attention than 
others, but all of our investigations are critical for improving 
transportation safety. We know that we owe it to the families of those 
involved, to the communities where events occurred, and to the 
traveling public to find out what happened, why it happened, and to 
make recommendations to help ensure it never happens again. Our current 
investigative workload includes almost 1,250 active investigations in 
all 50 states and Puerto Rico, in addition to supporting more than 160 
foreign investigations in over 50 countries. Throughout a typical year, 
we work on about 2,200 domestic and 450 foreign cases, and we expect 
the number of cases annually to remain high and continue to increase in 
complexity. Some of our significant ongoing investigations of events 
that have occurred this year include:

   The in-flight structural failure of a Boeing 737-9 MAX

   The contact of a container ship with the Francis Scott Key 
        Bridge, and subsequent bridge collapse, in Baltimore, Maryland

   A multivehicle work zone collision on Interstate 35 in 
        Austin, Texas.

   A Boeing 737-800 engine fire in Denver, Colorado.

   A medical transport helicopter crash in Canton, Mississippi.

   A gas leak and pipeline explosion in Hutchinson, Kansas.

   A multivehicle crash and postcrash fire on I-80 in Green 
        River, Wyoming.

   A collision between two light rail trains with a derailment 
        in Somerville, Massachusetts.

   A train fire and passenger evacuation in Ridley Park, 
        Pennsylvania.

   A crash of a Bering Air Cessna 208B Grand Caravan in Nome, 
        Alaska.

   A Learjet 55 Medevac crash in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

    In addition, we continue to investigate other significant events, 
including:

   A multivehicle crash, including a motorcoach carrying 
        members of a high school band in Etna, Ohio.

   A multivehicle crash on the Ohio Turnpike in Swanton, Ohio.

   A multivehicle crash between a motorcoach and tractor-
        trailers parked along a rest area ramp in Highland, Illinois.

   A tanker truck rollover and rupture with anhydrous ammonia 
        release in Teutopolis, Illinois.

   A grade-crossing collision in Pecos, Texas.

   A collision involving a vehicle operating with partial 
        driving automation in San Antonio, Texas.

   A collision between two vehicles resulting in a postcrash 
        fire in Carrizo Springs, Texas.

   Rail employee fatalities and injuries in Illinois, New 
        Jersey, North Carolina, and Wisconsin.

   Natural gas-fueled explosions in Youngstown, Ohio, South 
        Jordan, Utah, and Jackson, Mississippi.

   A multivehicle work zone collision and postcrash fire on I-
        95 in Kenly, North Carolina.

   A train derailment and hazardous materials release in 
        Manuelito, New Mexico.

   A school bus roadway departure and overturn in Millstone, 
        West Virginia.

   A fire aboard a container ship at Port of Newark, New 
        Jersey.

   A vehicle collision with a stopped school bus, fatally 
        injuring a student pedestrian, in Excelsior, Wisconsin.

    We currently have over a thousand open safety recommendations 
across all modes as a result of our investigations. In 2024, we issued 
132 new safety recommendations and closed 86. Of those closed, 
excluding those that were classified reconsidered, no longer 
applicable, and superseded, 58 (77 percent) were closed acceptably, 
meaning that the recommendation recipient took action to implement the 
safety recommendation. This includes actions to enhance aviation safety 
by requiring operators to implement safety management systems, to 
increase focus on highway bridge maintenance, to help prevent damage to 
underwater pipelines, and to help prevent train derailments due to 
unexpected weather conditions. This success rate demonstrates the value 
of our recommendations. Our recommendations are meaningful, and we 
appreciate the efforts of recipients to address them.
    The NTSB is a small agency that plays a vital role in ensuring 
public safety and protection of life and property in all that we do. I 
appreciate the need to right-size the Federal workforce; in fact, I 
strongly agree with that goal. However, the NTSB runs lean; we always 
have. We have just 430 employees to carry out our mission and are 
authorized by Congress to go up to 450, though we would need 
significantly more than that to truly be fully staffed. We punch far 
above our weight. Everyone at the NTSB plays a role in achieving our 
mission to make transportation safer. Their hard work, professionalism, 
and dedication around the clock is the reason that the NTSB is regarded 
as the world's preeminent safety agency. To complete our investigations 
and develop recommendations that advance safety changes without delays, 
we must meet the challenges that come with increasing growth and 
innovation in transportation. Therefore, it is critical for the agency 
to have additional resources to respond to events without affecting our 
timeliness, the quality of our work, or our independence.
    I want to thank the committee for your support in last year's NTSB 
reauthorization bill to increase NTSB's funding for the next 4 years. 
As a result of Congress' support, we have been able to make much needed 
progress in hiring for the agency. The vast majority of that growth has 
been in our investigative offices (Aviation Safety, Highway Safety, 
Marine Safety, and Railroad, Pipeline, and Hazardous Materials 
Investigations). Still, despite those efforts, we continue to need 
additional investigative staff, as well as staff in the operational 
offices where increases have not occurred to the same extent. This 
includes staff in General Counsel to work through a backlog of 
petitions for reconsideration of investigations and airman, mechanic or 
mariner's certificate appeals, as well as party-related issues and 
external legal disputes; staff in the Office of the Managing Director 
to enhance the agency's overall use of data to improve the NTSB's 
effectiveness and innovation; staff in the Office of the Chief 
Information Officer to address mandated cybersecurity enhancements and 
the backlog of Freedom of Information Act requests; and staff in Human 
Capital and Training to support recruitment, hiring, and other actions 
critical to developing and retaining a highly-productive workforce.
    The fact is, our greatest asset is our workforce, which accounts 
for over 70 percent of our costs. We rely on a staff of highly skilled 
individuals with technical expertise in such areas as aerospace, 
electrical, and mechanical engineering; chemistry; metallurgy; human 
performance; and other specialized fields to conduct accident 
investigations and identify life-saving safety improvements. We must 
continue to attract and retain talent with expertise in emerging 
technologies and the transportation systems of tomorrow. And without 
our workforce, we will not be able to carry out our congressionally 
mandated mission to protect public safety. Our workforce is highly 
technical, and approximately 25 percent of the employees are retirement 
eligible within 1 year; this number increases to approximately 40 
percent over the next 5 years. We need to build a deeper bench now to 
prepare for upcoming attrition.
    For the NTSB to carry out its mission-critical work, we must have a 
fully trained workforce ready to respond to more than 1300 new 
accidents per year, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and deliver 
comprehensive, timely, and concise investigation outcomes and safety 
recommendations to protect life and property and prevent future 
transportation-related accidents and injuries from occurring.
    Before I close, I want to thank Senate and House leaders on both 
sides of the aisle, as well as President Trump, Vice President Vance, 
and Secretary Duffy for their tremendous support of the NTSB. As 
examples, we were granted exemptions from the deferred resignation 
program and the Federal hiring freeze, and we currently have 14 
critical positions, nearly all investigative roles, posted on USA Jobs. 
The Administration and each of you have been very supportive of our 
work to ensure public safety, and we thank you all for your efforts.
    I respectfully request that Congress continue to support our 
ability to carry out our critical safety mission now and into the 
future; to recruit, retain, and develop a highly qualified and 
specialized workforce; and to prepare the agency for investigations 
involving emerging transportation technologies and systems to improve 
transportation safety.
                                 ______
                                 
                              Attachments

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Senator Moran. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    We now recognize Acting Administrator Rocheleau of the FAA 
for 5 minutes.

            STATEMENT OF CHRIS ROCHELEAU, ACTING 
       ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION

    Mr. Rocheleau. Thank you, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member 
Duckworth, Chairman Cruz, and Ranking Member Cantwell, as well 
as members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity 
to be here today to discuss the NTSB's preliminary report on 
the midair collision of PSA Airlines Flight 5342 and a U.S. 
Army Black Hawk helicopter that occurred in January, near 
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, or DCA.
    I would like to begin by offering my sincerest sympathies 
to the families and loved ones of those who perished in recent 
accidents, particularly the accident near DCA.
    The FAA continues to support the ongoing NTSB 
investigations. Our work with the NTSB will help us understand 
the factors that contributed to these accidents, and we will 
use the data to inform future FAA actions.
    Aviation safety is the FAA's number one priority. Let me 
repeat that--aviation safety is the FAA's number one priority. 
While flying remains the safest mode of transportation, 
aviation safety is not static. There is always room for 
improvement. The professionals at the FAA take their jobs very 
seriously and strive to ensure safety every day. But the fact 
of the matter is that we have to do better. We have to identify 
trends, we have to get smarter about how we use data, and when 
we put corrective actions in place, we must implement them with 
diligence.
    I want to thank Chair Homendy and the entire NTSB team for 
their dedication in their ongoing investigation.
    Earlier this month, the NTSB issued an initial report and 
two urgent safety recommendations. The recommendations align 
with the actions the FAA took, under Secretary Duffy's 
leadership, immediately following the accident, to restrict 
helicopter operations around DCA, eliminating mixed helicopter 
and fixed-wing traffic and carefully developing alternative 
routes.
    Following the NTSB recommendations, the FAA took action to 
make these restrictions permanent. When essential helicopter 
operations, such as lifesaving medical, active law enforcement, 
active air defense, or Presidential transport, must operate in 
the flight-restricted airspace, fixed-wing aircraft are not 
allowed in that airspace.
    We are also continuing to analyze other airports that have 
both established helicopter routes and nearby airplane traffic. 
The FAA also is also carefully reviewing offshore helicopter 
operations. As part of this analysis, we are using machine 
learning and language modeling to scan incident reports and 
explore multiple data sources to find themes and areas of 
concern. We will take immediate action if needed to mitigate 
any identified safety risks. Additionally, I will establish a 
Safety Risk Management Panel and engage with aviation 
stakeholders to identify additional hazard areas involving 
helicopter and fixed-wing interactions, and all aircraft 
operating in DCA Class B airspace will be required to broadcast 
their position and identification using ADS-B Out, with very 
limited exceptions.
    We are bolstering aviation safety in other ways, too. Air 
traffic controller staffing is a top priority as air traffic 
controllers play a critical role in keeping the American people 
safe. Right now, we have over 10,750 controllers on the job, 
with over 3,000 in training. We intend to hire another 2,000 
controllers this year. We have streamlined the hiring process 
and incentivized hiring with a 30 percent increase in the 
salary of those who qualify to attend the FAA's Academy, and we 
are already seeing positive results from these improvements.
    During the hiring surge that closed last week, we received 
over 10,000 applications, and more than 8,000 of those were 
referred to testing.
    We also continue to maintain rigorous oversight of Boeing 
to ensure the safety and compliance of its aircraft designs and 
operations. This oversight extends to ongoing monitoring of 
Boeing's manufacturing practices, maintenance procedures, and 
software updates. We are working closely with Boeing to address 
any safety concerns and to ensure that all required 
modifications and improvements are made to meet the highest 
safety standards.
    We have a strong foundation at the FAA, and we are going to 
make our agency even stronger. We are refocusing our energy and 
directing all of our resources to safety. And we will continue 
to recruit, train, and retain the best and brightest for the 
FAA team.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I also 
thank President Trump and Secretary Duffy for putting their 
faith in me to lead the FAA during this time. The work we do at 
the FAA is not easy, but it is vitally important to the 
American people. And I am proud to once again be part of the 
FAA team.
    I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Rocheleau follows:]

     Prepared Statement of Chris Rocheleau, Acting Administrator, 
                    Federal Aviation Administration
                    
    Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Duckworth, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss 
the National Transportation Safety Board's (NTSB) preliminary report on 
the midair collision of PSA Airlines flight 5342 and a U.S. Army Black 
Hawk helicopter that occurred in January, near Ronald Reagan Washington 
National Airport, or DCA.
    I would like to begin by offering my sincerest sympathies to the 
families and loved ones of those who perished in recent accidents, 
including the accident near DCA. The Federal Aviation Administration 
(FAA) continues to support the ongoing NTSB investigations. Our work 
with the NTSB will help us understand the factors that contributed to 
these accidents, and we will use the data to inform future FAA actions.
    Aviation safety is the FAA's number one priority. While flying 
remains the safest mode of transportation, aviation safety is not 
static. There is always room for improvement. The professionals at the 
FAA take their jobs seriously and strive to ensure safety every day. 
But the fact of the matter is that we have to do better. We have to 
identify trends, we have to get smarter about how we use data, and when 
we put corrective actions in place, we must execute them.
    I want to thank Chairman Homendy and the entire NTSB team for their 
diligence in the ongoing investigation. Earlier this month, the NTSB 
issued a preliminary report and two urgent safety recommendations. The 
recommendations align with the actions the FAA took, under Secretary 
Duffy's leadership, to restrict helicopter operations around DCA 
immediately following the accident, eliminating mixed helicopter and 
fixed-wing traffic. Following the NTSB recommendations, the FAA took 
action to make these restrictions permanent. When essential helicopter 
operations, such as lifesaving medical, active law enforcement, active 
air defense, or presidential transport, must operate in the flight-
restricted airspace, fixed-wing aircraft are not allowed in that 
airspace.
    We are continuing to analyze other airports that have both charted 
helicopter routes and nearby airplane traffic. The FAA also is 
assessing the Gulf of America, including offshore helicopter 
operations. As part of this analysis, we are using machine learning and 
language modeling to scan incident reports and mine multiple data 
sources to find themes and areas of risk. We will take immediate action 
if needed to mitigate any identified safety risks. In addition, I will 
establish a Safety Risk Management Panel and engage with aviation 
stakeholders to identify additional hazard areas involving helicopter 
and fixed-wing interactions.
    We're bolstering aviation safety in other ways, too. Air traffic 
controller staffing is a top priority as air traffic controllers play a 
critical role in keeping the American people safe. Right now, we have 
more than 10,750 air traffic controllers on the job with more than 
3,000 in training. We intend to hire another 2,000 controller trainees 
this year. Consistent with Secretary Duffy's announcement on 
supercharged air traffic controller hiring, we have streamlined the 
hiring process to improve efficiency by changing the previous 8-step 
process to a 5-step process, which will accelerate the time-to-hire for 
these critical positions by five months or more, bringing new air 
traffic controllers on the job much faster. We've also incentivized 
hiring with a 30 percent increase in the salary of those who qualify to 
attend the FAA's Academy. And we are already seeing positive results 
from these improvements. During the hiring surge that closed last week, 
we received more than 10,000 applications. More than 8,300 of those 
were referred to testing.
    We also continue to maintain rigorous oversight of Boeing to ensure 
the safety and compliance of its aircraft designs and operations. This 
oversight extends to ongoing monitoring of Boeing's manufacturing 
practices, maintenance procedures, and software updates. We are working 
closely with Boeing to address any safety concerns and to ensure that 
all required modifications and improvements are made to meet the 
highest safety standards.
    We have a strong foundation at the FAA, and we're going to make our 
agency even stronger. We are refocusing our energy and directing all of 
our resources to safety. And we'll continue to recruit, train, and 
retain the best and brightest for our FAA team.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I also thank 
President Trump and Secretary Duffy for putting their faith in me to 
lead the FAA during this time. The work we do at the FAA isn't easy, 
but it's vitally important. And I'm proud to once again be part of the 
FAA team.

    Senator Moran. Thank you, sir.
    I recognize Brigadier General Matthew Braman for his 
testimony.

       STATEMENT OF BRIGADIER GENERAL MATTHEW BRAMAN,
     DIRECTOR OF ARMY AVIATION, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY

    General Braman. Thank you, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member 
Duckworth, Chairman Cruz, Ranking Member Cantwell, and 
distinguished members of the Committee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to come here before you today to speak about the 
midair collision that occurred between an Army Black Hawk 
helicopter, with the call sign PAT 25, and American Airlines 
Flight 5342.
    First and foremost, on behalf of Army senior leaders, and 
all of our soldiers, I want to pass my continued condolences to 
all those affected by this tragedy. I want to thank the 
professional work of the first responders and the Federal, 
state, and local agencies that responded within minutes to the 
crash site and aided in the recovery. I want to thank Chairman 
Homendy and the NTSB for conducting a thorough investigation 
and facilitating a close and transparent relationship with the 
Army as we conduct our parallel investigations.
    The NTSB remains lead in the investigation, so I can't 
offer facts and recommendations at this time, but I can offer 
the Army perspective on the preliminary report and provide 
clarifying information on Army helicopter operations, and 
certainly can do that here in the Washington, D.C., area.
    For context, the PAT 25's unit, the 12th Aviation 
Battalion, falls under the Army Aviation Brigade, or referred 
to as the TAAB, and that unit has the mission to provide 
continuous, responsive aviation support to senior military and 
government leaders to enable continuity of government 
operations and defense support to civil authorities.
    The TAAB is one of dozens of organizations, both civilian 
and military, that operates helicopters in the D.C. area. Our 
aircraft continue to meet all requirements to operate in the 
National Airspace, in Class B airspace, and in helicopter 
routes in Washington, D.C., and they operate under positive 
control of flight services when within 30 nautical miles of 
DCA.
    PAC 25 was operating out of Davidson Army Airfield, Fort 
Belvoir. The crew of three were fully qualified to fly in the 
local area. The Pilot-in-Command, CW2 Andrew Eaves, was an 
instructor pilot. The Co-Pilot, Captain Rebecca Lobach, was a 
qualified pilot-in-command, as well, and the Crew Chief, Staff 
Sergeant Ryan O'Hara, was a standardization flight instructor.
    The night of January 29, 2025, PAT 25 was conducting an 
Annual Proficiency and Readiness Test, or APART. As part of 
that flight was approved to operate at contingency locations 
associated with their directed mission. This has led to 
questions as to whether PAT 25 was transmitting Automatic 
Dependent Surveillance Broadcasts out, or ADS-B Out. The 
specific status of both its operation and functionality is 
something that is under the investigation of the NTSB. The 
crew, however, was approved to operate with that capability 
off, in accordance with Army policy.
    The aircraft transponder, however, was active, with Mode 3 
A/C and Mode S when within the Class B airspace, and was 
emitting all the required information to allow air traffic 
services and traffic collision avoidance systems to detect and 
track the aircraft. Army policy does not permit Transponder Off 
operations in the National Airspace. They do not permit 
Transponder Off operations.
    There is certainly no shortage of speculation on potential 
causes of the accident. I understand well the desire for 
answers. As the Director of Army Aviation and a senior Army 
aviator, there is nothing more important to me than the 
capability, proficiency, and safety of our air crews and those 
whom they transport and support in defense of this Nation. And 
I am also personally invested in the safety of our commercial 
aviation enterprise, as I live with an airline pilot, and her 
safety and the safety of her passengers is paramount to me, as 
well. Which is why it is essential that we see this 
investigation through to its fruition so we can have well-
informed, facts-based conclusions to make desired change, when 
needed.
    But where prudent, the Army is not waiting to take action. 
Immediately after the accident, the 12th Aviation Battalion 
paused all operations. They have only recently resumed flights, 
and only outside the 7 nautical mile radius of DCA, with the 
exception of flights directly supporting the Secretary of 
Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and that remains 
true today. The Army continues to fully comply with all FAA 
restrictions on helicopter traffic over the Potomac River near 
DCA.
    The Army is actively participating, along with other 
military services and agencies, with an FAA-led working group 
to redesign the Route 4 helicopter corridor, as recommended by 
the NTSB in its preliminary report.
    We have also issued interim guidance to elevate the 
approval authority to operate with ADS-B Off. The Army is fully 
committed to a transparent and collaborative review of the 
events of January 29 and of all operations in the vicinity of 
DCA. We support any and all efforts to ensure a tragedy such as 
this never occurs again.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this 
Committee, and I look forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of General Braman follows:]

       Prepared Statement of Brigadier General Matthew W. Braman
       
                              INTRODUCTION
                              
    Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Duckworth, distinguished members of 
the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
today to discuss the accident that occurred between an Army UH-60 Black 
Hawk helicopter, call sign Priority Air Transport (PAT) 25, and 
American Airlines Flight #5342, operated by PSA Airlines in the 
vicinity of Reagan National Airport.
    First and foremost, on behalf of Army leadership, and our fellow 
Soldiers, we send our continued condolences to all those affected by 
this tragedy. We thank the professional work of the first responders 
and the countless Federal, State, and local agencies that responded to 
the crash site and aided in the recovery effort. Specifically, I want 
to thank the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for continuing 
to conduct a thorough investigation and facilitating a close and 
transparent working relationship with the Army. I will defer to NTSB on 
questions specific to the ongoing investigation, but I can offer the 
Army perspective on the preliminary report and provide clarifying 
information on Army helicopter operations in the National Capital 
Region (NCR) in general.

                       TAAB HELICOPTER PROCEDURES
                       
    The Army Aviation Brigade (TAAB) operates at Fort Belvoir, 
Virginia, and includes the 12th Aviation Battalion, which provides 
continuous, responsive rotary wing aviation support to senior military 
and government leaders in the NCR to enable continuity of government 
operations and defense support of civil authorities. The unit has 
operated in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area since 1957, flying 
on average 5,800 hours annually, the bulk of which--80 percent--are 
mission rehearsals, exercises, and individual crew flights to build 
proficiency for their assigned mission.
    The term ``training flight'' has been frequently used to describe 
PAT 25's mission on January 29th and does appear to be a source of some 
confusion. For clarity, a ``training flight'' in military vernacular is 
a general term used to refer to any flight that is not performing 
directed mission support. For TAAB aircrews, ``training flights'' refer 
to unit-led mission practice, mission validation flights with external 
agencies, and flights to build readiness and proficiency to execute 
TAAB's mission. TAAB training flights may involve operating at 
sensitive locations. New Army pilots learn to fly at Fort Novosel, 
Alabama, where they complete an initial course in a trainer helicopter 
before advancing to graduate level courses in the advanced airframes 
they'll operate when they join their units. Pilots who join TAAB are 
already qualified pilots prior to their arrival to the unit.
    All TAAB aircrews receive unit-tailored academic and flight 
training to ensure an understanding of routing and zone structure to 
conduct flight duties within the NCR, as well as the Federal Aviation 
Administration (FAA)-required academic training to operate in the 
Washington, D.C. Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA). The regulatory 
requirements are routinely reviewed, and aircrews are tested annually 
to maintain proficiency and currency. It is a mandatory Army 
requirement for aircrews to conduct day, night, and night-vision goggle 
(NVG) flights in the local area to ensure readiness to support TAAB's 
24-hour mission. TAAB aircrews are also required to conduct an annual 
proficiency and readiness test (APART) all Army aircrews must complete 
in order to evaluate individual and crew proficiency.
    All TAAB aircraft meet the requirements to operate within the Class 
B airspace and helicopter routes in the Washington, D.C. SFRA and the 
Flight Restricted Zone (FRZ). When operating in the D.C. area, all TAAB 
operations are under positive control by designated FAA facilities 
within the SFRA and FRZ.
    The Army is one of dozens of organizations that fly helicopters in 
the NCR. A 2021 Government Accountability Office (GAO) Report on 
Helicopter Noise Concerns (GAO-21-200) found between 2017 and 2019 over 
50 helicopter operators conducted approximately 88,000 helicopter 
flights within 30 miles of DCA. Of those, 32,890 (37.4 percent) were 
conducted by the military.

                                 PAT 25
                                 
    PAT 25 was a UH-60L Black Hawk helicopter assigned to 12th 
Battalion, TAAB, operating at Davidson Army Airfield, Fort Belvoir, 
Virginia. The crew of three were fully qualified to fly in the local 
area. The Pilot-In-Command, Chief Warrant Officer 2 Andrew Eaves, was a 
unit Instructor Pilot. The Co-Pilot, Captain Rebecca Lobach, was also a 
qualified Pilot-In-Command, and the Crew Chief, Staff Sergeant Ryan 
O'Hara, was a Standardization Flight Instructor.
    The night of January 29, 2025, PAT 25 was conducting an APART on 
Captain Lobach. The flight included operations in and around the D.C. 
Metropolitan area and the aircraft was transiting south to Fort Belvoir 
via the FAA-established helicopter routes when the accident occurred.
    During an APART, the evaluated crew member could expect to fly 
under day, night unaided, and NVG modes of flight.

                           ARMY ADS-B POLICY
                           
    The use of Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B)-Out 
transponders is an FAA requirement for operating in Class B airspace 
and all TAAB aircraft are equipped with ADS-B-Out systems. However, due 
to the proliferation over the past decade of flight tracking software 
capable of collecting sensitive flight data available to the public, 
the FAA published an exception, removing its ADS-B transmission 
requirement for sensitive operations conducted by Federal, State, and 
local government entities in matters of national defense, homeland 
security, intelligence, and law enforcement when transmitting would 
compromise the operations security of the mission or pose a safety risk 
to the aircraft, crew, or people and property in the air or on the 
ground.
    At the time of the accident, Army policy was to restrict ADS-B Out-
Off operations to sensitive or classified missions and require 
Commanders with moderate risk approval authority--which at the time 
could be delegated to low-risk approval authority--to determine when 
and whether ADS-B Out-Off operations are required. Army policy does not 
authorize ADS-B Out-Off operations for routine, non-sensitive, or non-
classified missions and always requires aircrews conducting ADS-B Out-
Off operations to operate their transponder in Mode 3 A/C which emits 
information required by air traffic services but with less identifying 
information. Mode S transponders present similar operational security 
concerns as ADS-B and its use is subject to the same Army policy.
    Aircraft Operating with ADS-B Out-Off but with Mode 3 A/C On are 
visible to Air Traffic Control (ATC) and other aircraft in the vicinity 
that are equipped with Traffic Collision Awareness Systems (TCAS). NTSB 
is still investigating whether PAT 25's ADS-B-Out system was operating 
as designed, not programmed, or turned off at the time of the accident.

                         ARMY INTERIM RESPONSE
                         
    Immediately following the accident, the 12th Aviation Battalion 
paused all operations to allow Army and unit leaders the time required 
to adequately assess mission requirements. On February 10, the 12th 
Aviation Battalion returned to flight operations with Army-emplaced 
limitations on flights around the Pentagon and Reagan National Airport. 
The Army is reviewing NTSB's preliminary report and is currently 
reviewing all Army helicopter operations in the NCR, to include its 
Department of Defense mission requirements.
    The Army has also issued interim guidance to the force to elevate 
the level of risk approval authority to operate with ADS-B Out-Off and 
will formally update its policy as the NTSB-led investigation 
continues. The Army is also investigating the utilization of the Army's 
current policy by the TAAB to determine the frequency with which the 
unit operated with ADS-B Out-Off and whether the policy was applied 
correctly.

                                CLOSING
                                
    The Army is committed to a transparent and collaborative review of 
the events of January 29th and of helicopter operations in the vicinity 
of Reagan National Airport. I have reviewed NTSB's preliminary report, 
and I assess that implementing its findings and recommendations would 
not negatively affect Army helicopter operations. The Army along with 
other military Services and other agencies that operate helicopters in 
the NCR will participate in an FAA-led working group to develop a new 
helicopter route that supports national security, law enforcement, and 
medical helicopter flight operations. This new route will replace the 
legacy Route 4, enhancing efficiency for critical missions while 
maintaining the highest safety standards as recommended by NTSB in the 
preliminary report.
    We are working to ensure any actions we take in response to the 
accident are fully informed by fact-based conclusions that come out of 
the investigations which are ongoing. When the NTSB and Army 
investigations are complete, the Army is prepared to evaluate and 
comply where able with future recommendations to mitigate risk while 
operating in the NCR and other areas with congested airspace. We fully 
support all efforts to ensure a tragedy such as this is never repeated.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to appear before the committee 
and I look forward to answering your questions.

    Senator Moran. Thank you, General.
    Let me begin by asking witnesses questions, and then we 
will rotate, alternate, between Republicans and Democrats, 
based upon time of arrival after the leadership of the 
Committee has their opportunity to ask their questions.
    Chair Homendy, let me begin with you. First of all, I am 
interested in learning about the occurrences that have been 
described, I described in my opening statement, about near 
misses and occurrences, TCAS advisories that occurred on 
numerous occasions over a long period of time. And what I hope 
you--and I will ask the Administrator of the FAA these 
questions--but I would like to know what did people know, when 
did they know it, and why didn't someone do something about it?
    In asking you about this topic, is the information that is 
collected by the FAA, that is where these statistics that we 
have each mentioned, that is where they come from. Is that 
true?
    Ms. Homendy. There were different sources of information, 
some which was FAA, some of which are voluntary safety 
reporting programs.
    Senator Moran. And those voluntary safety reporting 
programs, it is voluntary reporting to the FAA?
    Ms. Homendy. Yes.
    Senator Moran. So I want to give you the chance.
    Ms. Homendy. Yes.
    Senator Moran. So the information that has been described 
here about those events over a long period of time, is utilized 
by you but housed at the FAA?
    Ms. Homendy. I believe through a contractor, but yes.
    Senator Moran. And do you know at this point whether that 
information was reviewed in a regular manner? Have you 
investigated why information that seems so important did not 
result in changes in policy, rules, or regulations?
    Ms. Homendy. I do not know why. What I will say is this was 
a data request, came from a data request from the NTSB. We made 
that with the FAA and received information from the Aviation 
Safety Action Program, ASAP, from ATSAP, which is Air Traffic 
Control, from Mandatory Occurrence Reports, and we also 
received information from FAA surveillance data, from radar.
    But this was a request from us, and that resulted in our 
evaluation of that data and our urgent safety recommendations. 
I do not know if the FAA pulled that data themselves at any 
point, and I would have to defer to the Acting Administrator on 
that.
    Senator Moran. That information was so valuable, so 
important, so critical, that that is the reason you asked for 
the immediate changes in safety regulations. True?
    Ms. Homendy. Yes. And, you know, there does seem to be an 
issue with identifying emerging trends. There is a lot of data 
going to FAA, and taking that data and looking at trends and 
not specific issues I think is something not only the IG has 
raised but others have raised, even the Acting Administrator 
has raised, about having to do a better job with analyzing 
those trends.
    But it is key, because if we can get it after an accident 
occurs, what is key is getting it before and preventing it.
    Senator Moran. This is the wake-up call that suggests 
whether changes need to be made. Correct?
    Ms. Homendy. Correct.
    Senator Moran. Administrator, I am interested in asking you 
the same series of questions. What did the FAA know prior to 
this accident, when did they know it, and why wasn't some 
action taken to encourage and, in fact, increase the safety, 
particularly at an airport like DCA, and maybe others, and the 
proximity between helicopter and commercial air service 
traffic.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. So I am very concerned about what 
we have learned in the subsequent investigation, both from the 
NTSB as well as our own reviews that we immediately took. 
Clearly, something was missed. I would say immediately after 
the event we took the action--again, I referenced earlier, 
under Secretary Duffy's leadership, to restrict air traffic in 
that area, to ensure there was no helicopter traffic as well as 
fixed-wing.
    Senator Moran. My question is what did not happen at the 
FAA that would have highlighted this problem earlier, at the 
time in which this information is acquired by the FAA, but 
apparently not looked at until the accident?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So there is an ongoing review all the time 
of the data that is available. As the Chair mentioned, there 
are millions of pieces of data that come in, and I would tell 
you that we have verified every single near-midair collision 
was investigated. But there are certainly those instances where 
the information itself was not identified. And that is why we 
put artificial intelligence and machine learning in place now, 
to ensure that we are able to go through tens of millions of 
pieces of data to identify those trends and act quickly to 
mitigate those risks.
    Senator Moran. There is no question but had this 
information been utilized by the FAA or others that steps could 
have been taken to make certain that flying, particularly 
again, in the circumstance of helicopters and commercial 
aviation, at a place like Reagan National Airport, there would 
have been an opportunity to do something had that information 
actually been known and acted on. True?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. That is correct.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Senator Duckworth.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Following up on 
the Chairman's questions, this is also my first question. Mr. 
Rocheleau, can you tell me if this new methodology, using the 
AI or whatever other methodology you are using to look at the 
aggregate data, is being applied to other airports where there 
is close helicopter traffic in proximity to commercial 
aircraft?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, Senator, it is. We have 10 locations 
around the United States, including Alaska, Anchorage, that we 
are looking through right now, what we are referring to as 
hotspots, to look at similar trends, similar activities, as it 
relates to fixed-wing and helicopter operations.
    Senator Duckworth. Is this methodology of reviewing 
aggregate data going to be applied nationwide, not just in this 
particular area, but to look at the overall trends of near 
misses at other airports, not just between fixed-wing and 
rotary-wing?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, ma'am. There are three activities going 
on right now. First, the hotspots I referred to. Second is kind 
of a nationwide use of this review and use of this new 
capability that we have just admitted. And then, of course, the 
ongoing analysis and how we are doing that with our industry 
partners as well as the military.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. According to NTSB, between, 
as you have said, between October 2021 and December 2024, there 
were more than 15,000 instances of commercial aircraft coming 
close to helicopters. Eighty-five of those had vertical 
separation of less than 200 feet.
    General Braman, do you know how many of those 85 close 
calls involved Army helicopters?
    General Braman. Ranking Member Duckworth, we do not.
    Senator Duckworth. Can you tell me why that is?
    General Braman. That data, in those databases, is currently 
not shared, but certainly the Army is interested in becoming 
part of an opportunity to share data, because that is relevant 
to our safety, as well.
    Senator Duckworth. Mr. Rocheleau, will the FAA commit to 
sharing that data with the Army?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, ma'am, we will.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
    Ms. Homendy. We have also asked for that information, and 
we are going to share it as part of our investigation with all 
the parties.
    Senator Duckworth. And I think this needs to be ongoing 
into the future, so that especially the military aircraft that 
are flying, rotary-wing, within close vicinity--these folks 
should be getting this data, and we can do that, moving 
forward.
    General Braman, can you explain the Army's rationale for 
its policy that gives commanders discretion to determine how 
many crew chiefs are needed for a particular mission? I think 
it is important. I do not think that the civilian population 
understands the extent to which the Army does risk assessment 
and risk mitigation and risk analysis and that process. I think 
it would be important. And how are you going to be implementing 
that process, moving forward?
    General Braman. Thank you, Ranking Member Duckworth. I 
realize that I have broad authority as the Army Aviation 
Regulation proponent to direct how every aircraft and every 
operator conducts their mission. And I am not afraid to take 
that authority and use it, when appropriate. The reality is the 
best individuals we have to assess the risk of every single 
flight are our unit commanders, because we hold them 
responsible. They have the authority, the responsibility, and 
we hold them responsible to take any mission that they 
authorize, look at the factors involved, understand the people 
assigned to their organization, and adapt that crew to meet 
those requirements. And certainly that is something that will 
be looked at in this investigation--do we do that? And we will 
hold commanders accountable if they fail to uphold that 
responsibility.
    Senator Duckworth. Can you speak to, if a risk assessment 
for a particular mission comes in at medium or high risk, how 
the approval authority of that changes? Because you mentioned 
approval authority for the DCA area has been raised higher for 
ADS-B Out. Correct?
    General Braman. Yes, Senator. All missions go through an 
initial approval process. So a commander has to authorize a 
reason for an aircraft to fly. At the completion of that 
authorization the crew then assesses all the known and expected 
risks associated with the mission they have been tasked to do. 
That discussion involves a third party, a senior officer, a 
senior aviator within the organization, and then assesses that 
risk and directs the crew to make any changes to mitigate 
anything that either that briefing officer understands, based 
on their experience. And then when those things are implemented 
it goes back to a commander, who must authorize every single 
flight.
    So in the occurrence of things like ADS-B Out operations, 
that authority resides with a medium-risk authority. So a 
battalion commander must approve that mission, in particular, 
and in this case the policy allowed that to be delegated down 
to a company commander, and they must approve that it meets the 
standards of the policy completely.
    We have not elevated that risk to high risk. That requires 
an O6 commander to approve any mission that has ADS-B Off.
    Senator Duckworth. Mr. Chairman, I am going to ask your 
indulgence for an extra 30 seconds, because my next question I 
think applies to everybody here, and I think people will be 
interested.
    Senator Moran. Please proceed.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. This is for the FAA. I am 
hearing that there is a backlog of air traffic controllers 
waiting to get their FAA medicals approved so that they can 
return to duty. And we have an air traffic controller shortage 
right now. I think in the Chicagoland area there is about a 
dozen air traffic controllers who are waiting for, you know, 
they got new medication, whatever it is. But they are waiting 
as long as 12 to 18 months to get an appointment or to get a 
ruling from the FAA medical office so that they can actually 
get back on the job. And they are just sitting there, not able 
to do their job.
    And I think this is problem at all of the major airports 
around the country. I am sure every one of us has air traffic 
controllers waiting to be put back onto duty, and they can't 
because of the backlog with the FAA medical system. Can you 
speak to that? And if I give you a list of my air traffic 
controllers who have been waiting, will you take a look at 
those folks and make sure that their medical issues are 
addressed, so we can get them back on the job?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, Senator, I commit to that.
    Senator Moran. Chairman Cruz.
    Chairman Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On March 1, 
multiple commercial aircraft landing at DCA reported receiving 
a Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System, TCAS Resolution 
Advisories, as they were preparing to land, advising pilots of 
an impending threat from above, and in some cases directing the 
crews to take evasive action by descending. I think we were all 
alarmed that just a few weeks after the tragedy, commercial 
pilots were being told they were at imminent risk of a deadly 
midair collision.
    It has now come to my attention that these warnings were 
caused by the Secret Service and the U.S. Navy improperly 
testing counter-drone technology at DCA. Apparently, the Navy 
was using the same spectrum band as TCAS, causing the 
interference and faulty resolution advisories, even though the 
FAA had previously warned the Navy and the Secret Service 
against using that specific spectrum band due to interference 
risks.
    Acting Administrator Rocheleau, is that correct?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir, that is correct.
    Chairman Cruz. Let me just say this is deeply disturbing 
that just a month after 67 people died while on approach to DCA 
that the Secret Service and Pentagon would inadvertently cause 
multiple flights to receive urgent cockpit alerts recommending 
evasive action. It is inappropriate for such testing to occur 
at DCA, given the facts of what occurred, and I expect this 
Committee to investigate why precisely that happened.
    General Braman, I want to turn to your testimony. On March 
11, Chairman Moran and I sent you a letter asking a series of 
very specific questions. This week, the Army responded with a 
one-page information paper. However, there were specific 
questions in the letter that were not answered. I want to turn 
to them now.
    We asked you specifically how frequently does the Army turn 
of ADS-B Out transmission?
    General Braman. Chairman Cruz, as I stated in the 
discussion about how we approve the missions, a mission would 
have to fall into the category, as defined in the Federal 
regulation and Army policy. It must have national security 
implications and be sensitive in nature to be able to do that 
mission.
    Chairman Cruz. General, you are not answering my question. 
My question is how frequently is ADS-B Out turned off? I wasn't 
asking what the standard is. I was asking the frequency.
    General Braman. I can take the number for record, Senator. 
But I can tell you the types of missions and the majority of 
the missions they fly are missions associated with that 
national security mission.
    Chairman Cruz. Is it accurate that ADS-B Out is turned off 
for 100 percent of missions flown by the Army Air Brigade at 
Fort Belvoir?
    General Braman. Senator, I think you are referring to the 
June 8th letter from the Joint Staff to Representative Norton. 
In the context of missions, meaning the operations that the 
12th Aviation supports in their mission requirements, I would 
say that is an accurate statement. I would not say that is an 
accurate statement of 100 percent of the flights being flown by 
that organization.
    Chairman Cruz. OK. So I want to understand what you mean by 
``missions.'' Does ``missions'' capture training flights?
    General Braman. Only training flights that would have been 
operating in a location that is sensitive, as part of their 
continuity of government operations.
    Chairman Cruz. Well, that would be all of them around DCA. 
Is that correct?
    General Braman. Only specific sites that are part of that 
continuity of government operation.
    Chairman Cruz. In your one-pager you said 75 percent of the 
flights are mission rehearsal readiness flights. Are those 
operated with ADS-B Out?
    General Braman. They are, Senator, yes.
    Chairman Cruz. So right now, today, the Army is flying 
helicopters in and around DCA airport with ADS-B Out turned 
off. Is that correct?
    General Braman. When conducting their NORTHCOM-directed 
mission, that is correct.
    Chairman Cruz. I have to say, I find that shocking and 
deeply unacceptable. And I want to encourage the Army right now 
to revisit that policy, and to revisit that policy today. And I 
can tell you, if the Army chooses not to, I have a high level 
of confidence that Congress will pass legislation mandating 
that you revisit the policy. If today another accident occurs 
over DCA, with another helicopter that has ADS-B Out turned 
off, the Army will have very direct responsibility for that. 
And I am at a loss to come up with any justification for 
risking the lives of the traveling public with that decision. 
You cannot change the decisions made yesterday, but you can 
change decisions made forward.
    It is my understanding the Army has a memo, August 9, 2024, 
entitled, ``ADS-B Out Off operations in the National 
Airspace.'' My staff requested that memo from you, and my 
understanding is your team declined to provide it. That is also 
unacceptable. I want to ask you at this hearing, will you 
commit to providing that memo to this Committee?
    General Braman. Senator, I will commit to reviewing the 
information and getting what we can to you, absolutely.
    Chairman Cruz. That answer needs to be a yes, that you will 
provide that memo to this Committee.
    General Braman. Senator, I will review that and we will 
look at the ability to give it to the Committee, absolutely.
    Chairman Cruz. If it is not provided to this Committee 
within 24 hours, I am confident that you will have a senior 
commanding officer give you a direct order to provide that memo 
to this Committee.
    And I just want to underscore there is no reason the Army 
has to wait for the conclusion of the NTSB report to revisit 
your policy on ADS-B Out. You can do so right now. And I have 
got to tell you, I spent this morning looking in the eyes of 
family members who lost family members. I do not know how I 
would do it tomorrow, to another room of family members who 
lost loved ones, because yet another helicopter was flying with 
ADS-B Out. And so I cannot urge you more strongly, change that 
policy right now.
    Senator Moran. Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I too have 
asked for the same memo, so I want to follow on in the same 
line as Senator Cruz. I also want to associate myself with the 
information you are requesting on spectrum interference. This 
is one of the reasons why I think spectrum and spectrum fights 
are so important is because I think the agencies with adjacency 
and issues, we cannot leave this up to the flying public.
    But I want to go back, because Brigadier General, you 
mentioned in your testimony we now have the additive dialogue 
that we just heard, but you said it is not allowed. You are 
saying it is not allowed. ADS-B Out was not allowed. That is 
what you said earlier. Is that in your testimony? In addition 
to the Holmes letter, you basically stated that using ADS-B 
Out, it was not allowed.
    General Braman. Army policy is ADS-B Out is not to be used 
for routine use.
    Senator Cantwell. OK. So Acting Administrator, did you know 
this? Did the FAA know this? Did the FAA know and understand 
and absorb this? Did you know that you were allowing a flight 
to go within 75 feet of each other and there was no signaling 
message that we have already identified as a safety measure, is 
something that we have had as a requirement?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So I understand the FAA was aware of this. 
We have an existing memorandum of agreement with the Department 
of Defense----
    Senator Cantwell. Did you know it was 100 percent, as the 
Eleanor Holmes Norton and as--the Brigadier General is pretty 
clear this morning, we don't allow it, even to the point of not 
answering Senator Cruz when they are going to change it. 
Because I am pretty sure their attitude is going to be, ``We 
don't allow it.'' He is going to say he would rather have a 
route somewhere where he can fly without it. That is what he is 
going to say. And so, you know, that is a separate issue over 
here.
    Our job, though, is the FAA oversight, and you cannot give 
exemptions to things that you do not understand. So he, in 
their application, kind of made it sound like, well, it is not 
going to be that routine. But he is very clear, they are never 
turning it on if they do not have to. They are never turning it 
on.
    So what I do not understand is why the FAA did not 
understand that? Why you would allow this design--this is the 
wrong design. Whoever said you could fly in this airspace this 
close together, without a safety feature that was already being 
required by the FAA, and then giving them an exemption makes no 
sense. So why did you allow it to happen?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So I cannot speak to why the previous 
administration may have allowed for that memorandum of 
agreement, which is why we, effective today, will require, in 
any DCA Class B airspace, ADS-B Out to be turned on, except in 
very limited circumstances.
    Senator Cantwell. What are those other limited 
circumstances? Other agencies? Is there any other agency that 
is doing this?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So we have 46 different helicopter operators 
within the National Capital Region, but again, DCA Class B 
airspace will now require ADS-B On to be out.
    Senator Cantwell. What other agencies are operating this 
way?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So we have certainly a number of military 
units. We have local law enforcement. We certainly have the 
Department of Justice and FBI. We have a number of different 
agencies that fly, the Park Police, and those are the entities 
that we are working with closely now, to make sure, first and 
foremost, they understand the new restrictions that we have in 
the airspace.
    Senator Cantwell. Do they have exemptions?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Some of them do.
    Senator Cantwell. Are you concerned about this?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Absolutely, which is why we immediately put 
in place the requirement to have ADS-B Out on.
    Senator Cantwell. And so you think they are operating that 
way?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Cantwell. You think that Homeland Security is 
operating that way?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Effective today, they will be operating with 
ADS-B On.
    Senator Cantwell. Effective today?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, ma'am.
    Senator Cantwell. So over the last month you have known, as 
I am going to submit for the record, a letter from the 
Department of Homeland Security, that basically says under the 
Federal Aviation waiver, all U.S. Customs and Border Protection 
air and marine operations in the Capital Region basically have 
this exemption, as well.
    [The information referred to follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Mr. Rocheleau. So they haven't had----
    Senator Cantwell. So I want to understand if people were 
still flying in this airspace, we all fly in and out of this 
airspace. Do we now have to worry about other operators in this 
airspace that may be doing the same thing as happened with the 
military? And now you are telling me you are going to take 
action today?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I should clarify. Immediately after the 
accident we put the restrictions in place so that no mixed 
traffic could occur--no helicopters and fixed-wing in the same 
airspace. Today, we are requiring the ADS-B Out to be on. So 
previous to this day, the fixed-wing as well as helicopters 
were not allowed in the airspace. So we cleared the complexity 
of that area.
    Senator Cantwell. Now today you are going to say to 
Homeland Security you have to have ADS-B, basically the 
Automatic Surveillance Broadcast System has to be on. You are 
going to make that today?
    Mr. Rocheleau. That is correct.
    Senator Cantwell. Well, I would----
    Mr. Rocheleau. Or any or the Class B airspace that you can 
see in the graphic, in that red airspace, that is required.
    Senator Cantwell. Acting Administrator, you are not 
building faith in this system of oversight of the FAA if you 
are telling me that we now have a bunch of other operators in 
this airspace that you now said after the accident were 
prohibited. But now you are going to turn it back on, and if 
they meet this requirement. And we have letters from them, 
thinking that they are exempted. I want to see this rule. This 
would have been a great debate with Mr. Bradbury before the 
Committee.
    Because the American people, these poor families have lost 
loved ones. This is not their day job. It is your day job. It 
is the day job of the FAA not to allow these exemptions to 
become prolific and everybody use them, and then us have to sit 
here and figure out how to do our oversight job of you, to make 
sure that these details are exposed, when we cannot even get a 
memo from some of these agencies.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I know my time has expired, but I will 
come for a second round with the witnesses, because I think it 
is clear. The NTSB has been very clear on the requirements for 
ADS-B In, and in this case if they would have listened to 
them--it is $40,000 to equip--I am sorry, it is $20,000 to 
equip one plane. You could probably equip the whole fleet of 
aviation for $100 million. I guarantee you their lives, the 
family lives are worth that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Moran. Before recognizing Senator Budd, does the 
FAA, Mr. Rocheleau, does it have the authority to supersede the 
operations of the Army and these other agencies in the airspace 
around airports? We have not gotten the Army to say they are 
going to do this with their own policy, but you say you are 
mandating it. Do we know that the Army and others have to 
follow your mandate?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir, they do.
    Senator Moran. OK. Senator Budd.

                   STATEMENT OF HON. TED BUDD, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Senator Budd. Thank you. First and foremost, I want to 
offer my condolences and prayers to all the families that are 
here today. I am saddened that so many North Carolinians were 
lost in this accident, including Captain Rebecca Lobach and the 
four members of 5342's Charlotte-based flight crew: Samuel 
Lilly, Jonathan Campos, Danasia Elder, and Ian Epstein. Senator 
Moran, I am sorry for the loss of so many Kansans, as well, in 
this incident, and I want to thank you for organizing this 
hearing.
    Chair Homendy, thanks for your work so far. On page 9 of 
the preliminary report it states that the MPFR, the 
multifunction flight recorder's reading for pressure altitude 
conflicted with other altitude's readings. Ultimately, this 
conflict led your team to invalidate the pressure altitude 
reading provided by the recorder.
    Can you provide any details on the differing altitude 
readings, and do you have any update on whether this 
conflicting data was limited to the MPFR or if that was 
provided to the flight crew and perhaps was a confusing factor?
    Ms. Homendy. We are still looking into that and doing some 
testing. What I will say is the pressure altitude was 
determined invalid on the Black Hawk because we would expect 
that to be somewhat similar to the CRJ. But it was much lower, 
so we determined that that was invalid, and it could not be 
used to calculate the barometric altitude. We would need two 
sets of data, which was pressure altitude and barometric 
pressure setting. We had the pressure setting. We do not have 
the pressure altitude data for that. So we were not able to 
determine from that what the barometric altitude was of the 
Black Hawk. However, we are looking at other data.
    Senator Budd. OK. Thank you. General Braman, PAT 25 was 
operating out of Davidson Army Airfield on a pilot annual 
standardization mission at the time of the collision. Given the 
concentration of senior military and civilian officials 
surrounding DCA, how vital are these missions to readiness for 
continuity of government operations?
    General Braman. Senator, they are extremely vital. To go 
back to Senator Cruz's question about how many flights, 75 
percent of the missions flown by the 12th Aviation Battalion 
are in direct support of the continuity of government 
rehearsals, exercises, and making sure crews are familiar with 
how to get that mission accomplished. And they stand ready 
every single day in a 15-minute alert stream to do that 
mission.
    Senator Budd. Thank you, General. Can the Army continue to 
fulfill its priority air transport missions without access to 
Route 1 and Route 4?
    General Braman. The Army, the fact that we are in the 
working groups will allow us to help influence routing, that 
will allow us to continue to do that mission, and I am 
confident we can do that.
    Senator Budd. Thank you. Chair Homendy again, in your view, 
is the permanent closure of Route 4 the only solution that 
allows for continued operations of both rotary and fixed-wing 
aircraft around DCA?
    Ms. Homendy. And it is permanent closure when Runway 15 and 
Runway 33 are in use. That was our recommendation to the FAA.
    Senator Budd. Thank you. Administrator Rocheleau, the 
aviation investigation report from the NTSB shows that the 
separation between aircraft on approach to Runway 33 would have 
a mere 75 feet of separation from a helicopter operating on 
Route 4 and hugging the shoreline of the east bank of the 
Potomac. Was the FAA aware of this conflict prior to January 
29, and given the insufficient vertical separation that we are 
talking about, was the FAA relying solely on controllers in the 
DCA tower to deconflict the approach to Runway 33?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So the FAA was aware of the design of that 
airspace in advance of December [sic] 29th. I would say that is 
one of the reasons why we immediately restricted that airspace 
after the incident, to review the circumstances around the 
airspace itself. In addition to that, it is one of the reasons 
why we are looking at hotspots or mixed traffic areas around 
the nation, whether that is Boston, Dallas, L.A., and 
Anchorage.
    Senator Budd. Thank you.
    Ms. Homendy. Senator, can I----
    Senator Budd. Please.
    Ms. Homendy. There is a D.C. Helicopter Working Group that 
we have been trying to figure out who is part of the working 
group and get minutes and get documents from that working group 
to see what information was shared and what was discussed over 
the years. We have not been able to attain that yet, and I hope 
we can, from FAA and others.
    Senator Budd. Are you a part of that working group?
    Ms. Homendy. We are not part of that working group.
    Senator Budd. But you have access to it, and they are 
willing to provide what they find.
    Ms. Homendy. We have requested information. We have not 
even been able to identify who is part of the working group 
firmly and get documents as part of that working group. We have 
requested all of that information because we do want to 
evaluate what was discussed. We are also going to interview the 
FAA cartographers on how this route was mapped, because that 75 
feet is max. That is the maximum. It goes down from there as 
commercial aircraft approach Runway 33.
    Senator Budd. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. So let me see if I can help Senator Homendy, 
Chairman Homendy.
    Ms. Homendy. That is a very hard job.
    Senator Moran. You are very good at public relations with 
Senators, but we recognize the challenges you face.
    So do either one of you belong to this working group? Does 
the Army or the FAA participate, and can you answer that so the 
NTSB can pursue information?
    Ms. Homendy. I mean, it is the FAA's working group.
    Senator Moran. It is the FAA's working group. All right. 
Mr. Rocheleau, what is the problem here?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I am happy to work with the Chair. We have 
been working extremely closely together on this investigation, 
and I am happy to work with the Chair and understand why she 
has not received that information, and make sure we follow up 
on that.
    Senator Moran. Can you think of any reason that the NTSB 
should not be a part of that information, Mr. Rocheleau?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Off the top of my head I cannot. I do not 
know why they would be restricted in that, and I certainly will 
talk to my folks when we get back.
    Senator Moran. Thank you.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir.
    Senator Moran. Should we ask, is the Army part of this 
working group, as well?
    General Braman. The Army is part of the working group. Yes, 
Senator.
    Ms. Homendy. There are apparently 17 entities that are part 
of the working group. We just have not been able to verify who 
all the entities are.
    Senator Moran. Surely the FAA is in charge and they can 
help you.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Surely I would have been happy to understand 
that before today.
    Senator Moran. General, do you know any reasons that the 
working group's efforts cannot be known by NTSB?
    General Braman. Absolutely not.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Let me follow up. Mr. Rocheleau 
indicated that the FAA does have the authority to require ADS-B 
Out. Do you agree with that assessment that the FAA can make 
this decision, and if you do not follow the FAA policies then 
you are precluded from the airspace?
    General Braman. Chairman, the Army operates 100 percent 
under FAA authority.
    Senator Moran. Very good. Let me turn to perhaps the next 
steps or new information, and to this I will go to Chair 
Homendy. Since the report that we are discussing here today is 
2 weeks old, what has transpired, if anything, in those 2 
weeks? Have you discovered any new and relevant information 
that you can share with us?
    Ms. Homendy. Where would you like me to begin? One thing I 
can say on ADS-B Out Off, that is policy of the Army. But we 
are still looking at installation programming and potential for 
equipment malfunction. And the reason I mention this is because 
the accident helicopter, for this accident helicopter, no ADS-B 
data had been received from an FAA ground station for 730 days 
prior to the accident. And that was abnormal.
    So we began looking at the fleet for the battalion. The 
battalion had 25 helicopters, that includes this particular 
helicopter. Nine of them were Mike models and all were 
transmitting ADS-B Out when they were turned on, because we 
have to verify that it is working.
    There were 16 Limas, including the accident helicopter, 
which we are still looking at. But 7 were transmitting when 
ADS-B Out was turned on, 8 were not, and stopped doing so 
sometime between May and November 2023. We do not know why. 
Five of those started transmitting since the NTSB identified 
the issue and began working with the Army to try to isolate the 
reason.
    So I just want to let you know that you can have ADS-B Out 
on, but you also have to make sure that it is working.
    Senator Moran. You indicated working with the Army, but 
there are other participants in this arena. Were you narrowing 
it to the Army as if something is necessarily wrong there, or 
more broadly there is a problem in receiving the information?
    Ms. Homendy. For this, for the ADS-B Out on, we wanted to 
look at the helicopter fleet for the battalion, to see whether 
ADS-B Out on, when turned on, was actually transmitting data. 
Because we did think it was abnormal that for the helicopter 
involved in the accident, it was not transmitting data for so 
long.
    Senator Moran. Any explanation, General?
    General Braman. Chairman, this exactly is what the value of 
the investigation is. There are things that you would not 
normally look at that are being determined here, and that is 
certainly going to help us drive policy and any changes that we 
need to do as a result of the investigation, and certainly the 
NTSB has the expertise to do that.
    Senator Moran. So what we are hearing from Chair Homendy is 
that it may be transmitting, it may be on, but there is no 
receipt, there are, I don't know, technical problems in the 
process by which it is--it is not providing the information it 
is supposed to provide, right?
    General Braman. Chairman, obviously the functionality of 
any Army equipment, and certainly Army aviation equipment, is 
important to me. So if we are discovering there is a challenge 
there, we will take direct action, absolutely.
    Senator Moran. This is not an inconsequential thing, right?
    Ms. Homendy. It is not, and I think for the public 
watching, because I think there are a lot of people watching, 
is ADS-B Out broadcast latitude, longitude, altitude, and 
velocity once per second. It updates once per second versus 4 
to 6 seconds for radar, which is significant when you have 
converging aircraft.
    Senator Moran. Mr. Rocheleau, you indicated as of today 
there is a change in policy at FAA. I would be interested in 
knowing if that change in policy is only related to DCA 
airspace, or you are putting those requirements in place for 
other airports?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Thank you, Senator. So the requirements that 
I announced today are effective for the D.C. Class B airspace 
immediately. Part of our ongoing work, as I related earlier, 
with respect to hotspots and the mixed traffic that we have 
seen that could be problematic are areas where we are looking 
at kind of adding that requirement in. It seems premature 
simply along the lines of the way airspace is structured in 
different locations that we need to focus before acting too 
quickly.
    So we want to make sure that as we are looking at the 
different airspaces and how they are constructed that we are 
taking kind of intentional, careful action.
    Senator Moran. And that intentional action is underway.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir.
    Senator Moran. You are doing that at other airports today.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Absolutely. And wherever we find a risk, we 
will mitigate that risk immediately.
    Senator Moran. Chairman Homendy, I asked you a question and 
I interrupted you, and it sounded like your answer would be 
lengthy, of the things you have learned in the last 2 weeks. I 
will come back to you after recognizing the two Senators to my 
left.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
follow up on what Chairwoman Homendy is talking about, testing 
the ADS-B Out, whether it is actually transmitting data because 
the data was not received. Will we be able to check that with 
all of the other rotary wing operators that are in this region 
as well? Is that something that FAA should be mandating, that 
they could do that? I mean, you are not looking at the other 
operators because they are not part of this accident. Correct? 
So then my question for Mr. Rocheleau is, will the FAA be 
directing all of the other helicopter operators, whether it is 
Homeland Security, local law enforcement, who have this 
exemption to ADS-B Out? Will you be directing that they 
actually test their equipment to make sure that it is actually 
transmitting the data that can be received?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, Senator. I think that is part of our 
ongoing work and the collaboration between those operators and 
how we make sure they first and foremost understand the 
requirement, and second, that their equipment is functional.
    Senator Duckworth. OK. Thank you. I wanted to also follow 
up on my earlier questioning about the FAA's air traffic 
controller workforce. You had committed to looking at the list 
of names I gave you, that I will be giving you, for the air 
traffic controllers who are waiting for medical review. I would 
like for you to commit to reporting back to me in writing about 
how many controllers around the country are waiting for medical 
clearances so that they can return to work, and what the FAA is 
doing to make sure these medical reviews are happening in a 
timely manner.
    Mr. Rocheleau. I will commit to that.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. In the race to hire more air 
traffic controllers--and the staffing was adequate on that 
evening but we could have used more air traffic controllers, 
obviously--and in the race to hire more air traffic 
controllers, I want to make sure the FAA does not lower your 
long-standing high standards for air traffic controllers. There 
could be a temptation to sacrifice effectiveness for 
efficiency, but the FAA must stick to its stringent standards 
to protect safety.
    Can you assure this Committee that as the administration 
works to hire more air traffic controllers you will not, in any 
way, lower the high standards that are currently required for 
individuals to become certified air traffic controllers? And 
there are plenty of places, a lot of them are in, actually, 
Kansas, that have the expertise to help us train air traffic 
controllers, as long as we keep those high standards.
    Mr. Rocheleau. One hundred percent. Part of our ongoing 
activity to surge in air traffic controller hiring is to look 
for the best and the brightest, and that is exactly what we are 
going to continue to do.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. To follow up on Senator Duckworth, you 
should look to Kansas, and we welcome you.
    I am going to turn to Senator Schmitt in just one second. 
General, the Senator from Illinois was asking about routine 
maintenance and determining whether equipment is working. Do 
you have a standard in place? What Chairwoman Homendy said does 
not make sense to me that you would not know there were 
problems with the transmission or the equipment. Do you have a 
protocol in place, and is that equipment inspected on a 
continuing basis?
    General Braman. Certainly, Chairman, generally the aviation 
operations we have protocols for the status of aircraft. I will 
have to get back to you, take it for the record, on what the 
protocol is to ensure that ADS-B Out transmissions outside of 
the aircraft are being received. It is something I will have to 
look at, on how do we do that.
    Senator Moran. And whether protocol is being followed?
    General Braman. Absolutely.
    Senator Moran. Thank you. Senator Schmitt.

                STATEMENT OF HON. ERIC SCHMITT, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM MISSOURI

    Senator Schmitt. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And my 
friend from Illinois would agree. I certainly do not want to 
see us reduce standards. I guess in following in that same 
spirit, with Mr. Rocheleau, can you commit that no hiring 
decisions will be made based on race?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. Again, we are looking for the best 
and the brightest, and we are prioritizing those who are best 
qualified.
    Senator Schmitt. Because as you know, there is a lawsuit by 
about a thousand folks who are claiming that they did not get a 
job because of their race, at the FAA.
    Mr. Rocheleau. We are all about making sure the best and 
the brightest are there, and we do that through a grading 
mechanism.
    Senator Schmitt. That is great to hear. I did want to ask, 
General--and again, I apologize if this has been asked before. 
They are running us in and out of here, different committee 
hearings, Armed Services. I did want to ask, this was a very 
strong crew in the Black Hawk. Is it typical, I guess, is it a 
problem--is it typical and is it a problem to have someone who 
is a lower rank as the--and this is my understanding, that the 
evaluator was a lower rank than the pilot. Is that a typical 
situation? Is that problematic? Is that not a problem? Do you 
think it contributed in any way? I just wanted to get your 
assessment.
    General Braman. Thank you, Senator, for the question. It is 
extremely typical in Army aviation because the preponderance of 
our force is our warrant officers, and they are our 
professional aviators. That is what they do for their entire 
career. So they are instructor pilots, they are maintenance 
test pilots, safety officers, and our commissioned officers 
fill roles of leadership within the organization. So it is very 
routine to have a senior member being evaluated by a junior 
member.
    Senator Schmitt. OK. And I am sure you have gone through 
this analysis. I just feel like in the spirit of making sure we 
are getting this right, moving forward, that you do not think 
there is a systemic problem associated with maybe somebody with 
a lower rank saying something to somebody of a higher rank in 
those kinds of situations. You have gone through that analysis, 
I am assuming?
    General Braman. Absolutely. And the personalities of crew 
members and capabilities is something that is considered in 
that risk brief process for every single flight. Is it the 
right crew? Is the crew mixed properly? Commanders would know 
if there are issues with, as simple as they do not get along, 
and commanders will take that into account before approving any 
fight.
    Senator Schmitt. And I guess for the FAA--and again, maybe 
you have been asked this before--clearly in the Chairman's 
opening statement and a number of the Committee members, just 
the report, the statistics of the number of near misses between 
helicopters and aircraft landing at DCA, that, you know, those 
operations now have been halted. Can you just explain to the 
American people why that did not happen before?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So, again, I will say that the reports that 
came in previously were certainly analyzed, but something was 
missed. And since that time, we have been using new tools 
available to us, artificial intelligence, machine learning, to 
be able to scan the tens of millions of data points, to be able 
to do that analysis in a more proactive and ideally at some 
point here, predictive way, to identify risks earlier and to 
mitigate that risk.
    Senator Schmitt. But this was not a new issue at DCA, 
right? This is an issue that had been a longstanding concern. 
Is that accurate?
    Mr. Rocheleau. It is accurate. There were a number of 
reports that came in, and I would say that we, as I mentioned 
earlier, we investigate every single near-midair collision, and 
even as we talk about spectrum issues, Chairman Cruz mentioned, 
we have teams that go out and assess the airspace itself, 
making sure that we are working with partners, whether it is on 
counter-UAS technology, to make sure that airspace is as clean 
as possible from interference.
    Senator Schmitt. And so moving forward, obviously as a 
response to the tragedy that happened--and I would be remiss 
not to express my condolences to the families who are here. I 
know everyone has, and it is devastating for each and every one 
of you, including some folks from back home. So your advocacy 
does matter, and it will carry beyond today. This is important.
    So I ask in the spirit of that. Moving forward then, is 
that how you see things, that the state of play as it is 
currently now will continue?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. We will continue to use the latest 
tools we have to be able to assess that data and work with the 
industry, with the aviation ecosystem, if you will, to identify 
that risk early and to mitigate that risk immediately.
    Senator Schmitt. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Senator Moran. Thank you, Senator Schmitt. Mr. Rocheleau, 
at the moment, whether it is on or off is irrelevant because 
there are no flights--you are announcing something that does 
not, at the moment matter because you have not lifted the ban 
on the flights. Is that true?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So it is helpful if I can just point to the 
graphic. In the graphic I can explain that in the yellow-
sectioned area, the graphic there, that is where there is no 
mixed traffic--no helicopters, no fixed-wing--except for those 
very few circumstances where we have emergency, national 
security type of traffic.
    In the red section, in that red airspace, is where ADS-B 
Out--so DCA Class B airspace is now required.
    You will also notice where, based on the NTSB 
recommendations, where we have eliminated Route 4, going north 
to south on the Potomac, as well as Route 6, that formerly, you 
can see on the left side of the graphic, was in effect from the 
west to the east, where Bolling Air Force Base is.
    Senator Moran. I will have to think about that. Yes, sir.
    Senator Cantwell. Mr. Chairman, if I could, just for the 
record, because I see we have several colleagues----
    Senator Moran. Senator Cantwell, you are recognized.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to clarify 
on your point, Acting Administrator, we still have a rule that 
says they have an exemption, all sensitive. So I know you are 
making a declaration today, but I do not think that supersedes 
the rule. Now, maybe President Trump is going to call all these 
agencies and tell them to stand down, but legally, whatever the 
FAA is doing today, does not take precedent over that rule. So 
when I come back for a second round----
    Senator Duckworth. I believe the FAA has control over that 
airspace and they can say----
    Senator Cantwell. They can definitely shut it down. But as 
it relates to the rule, his decision just to say that you now 
have this requirement, that a rule gave them an exemption to.
    Senator Duckworth. I think you can issue an emergency 
directive. Is that correct?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So the agreement we have in place with the 
helicopter operations that fly without ADS-B Out is an actual 
memorandum of agreement. It is not a formal rule. So it is an 
agreement we have with the Department of Defense and the other 
helicopter operators in the D.C. area.
    Senator Cantwell. And we can get a copy of that, the MOU?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
    Senator Moran. Senator Hickenlooper.

              STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HICKENLOOPER, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM COLORADO

    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Rocheleau, 
you earlier testified that you have looked at the airports with 
higher volumes of mixed traffic. I think you mentioned Boston, 
Dallas, Anchorage. Is that assessment--have you gone through 
all the airports? I mean, does that mean that other airports in 
other large cities, or where we have a fair amount of mixed 
traffic, are OK?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So we have 10 locations, a total of 21 
airports. So we are doing this hotspot review, this mixed 
traffic review across the nation, including in the Anchorage 
area. So we are reviewing all the airspace designs to see where 
we may have this indicator of risk with mixed traffic, so 
helicopter operations as well as fixed wing.
    Senator Hickenlooper. And so you mentioned Boston, Dallas, 
and Anchorage. That is not the full list, I assume.
    Mr. Rocheleau. That is correct, sir.
    Senator Hickenlooper. And so when will this be done?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So obviously 21 locations, I am receiving 
regular updates. I anticipate that activity being concluded in 
the next couple of weeks. I will tell you that our teams, they 
are being very intentional about how they go through that 
airspace, because it has been built over time as it relates to 
helicopter routes and other approaches and departure routes.
    So we are being very intentional, very careful. We do not 
want to move quickly, with inducing additional risk.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I understand that. But obviously time 
is of the essence in a situation like this, making sure that 
even a preliminary warning as part of that assessment would be 
pretty valuable.
    Mr. Rocheleau. And any indicator that there is an emerging 
risk, we would take immediate action.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Ms. Homendy, you have, in the past 
talked about workforce and making sure that you are fully 
staffed, and I think this is a direct follow up on that. Are we 
fully staffed? I mean, you are going to look at this entire 
incident, and it is going to take the typical year and a half 
or two years, which, again, drives a lot of my constituents 
crazy. Do you have a timeline for when you will finish the full 
incident report, or whatever the legal description is, when 
that will happen?
    Ms. Homendy. We have committed to 1 year, barring any 
unforeseen circumstances, but one year.
    Senator Hickenlooper. And you have enough staffing on that?
    Ms. Homendy. We have 40 experts at the NTSB that are 
currently leading this investigation. It is a high workload 
because it is not their only investigation that they are 
focused on. But they are very committed to this one. And then 
we have an entire agency that supports them.
    Senator Hickenlooper. All right. We had an array of past 
reports. It varies dramatically. But I appreciate the fact that 
you are trying to accelerate this. I think it frustrates a lot 
of people that it takes so long--I mean, how long does it take 
to gather the facts?
    Ms. Homendy. I mean, it is a complex investigation, and our 
investigations are very broad, and there is a lot of 
information that can change over time, and we are very fact-
based, following the evidence. So that is our credibility, so 
we want to be exact when we issue something.
    I will say I do have to congratulate our workforce because 
when I came on as Chair we had well over 400, close to 500 
reports that were 2, 3, 4 years old, and they are now below 2. 
So that is significant.
    But the complexity of investigations, and then the fact 
that some things we do not have control over, like if we cannot 
get access to evidence because a district attorney or law 
enforcement is prohibiting us in a certain situation, with a 
highway crash. That can extend the timeline.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Sure. No, no, I have seen that. But I 
think on something like this, where time is of the essence, I 
appreciate you guys making the effort, and glad to hear that 
you have the workforce.
    Mr. Rocheleau, in your testimony you highlighted some of 
the recent changes in hiring, and also especially in the 
training processes, to make sure we have more qualified air 
traffic controllers but full workforce. I know you are working 
with local colleges all over the country on that.
    Is that effective? Is that working? I mean, I think if we 
can accelerate that--Metro State in Denver is a place where 
they are turning out some of these members. Is that something 
you can ramp up?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I am very interested, and the Secretary has 
been very clear, with the public as well as with me, that we 
need to surge this hiring and do it well, again, back to the 
testing, the surge, bringing people in. As it relates to 
additional college initiatives, we have an Enhanced College 
Training Initiative, ECTIs, that we are using in I believe four 
universities right now. We are working with them, with respect 
to advanced simulators and the like, to make sure that we can 
get more what we will call throughput, but more controllers 
through those schools, and get them out to the local 
facilities, centers, towers, TRACONs.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I am out of time. I yield back 
to the Chair. Thank you all.
    Senator Moran. Senator Sullivan.

                STATEMENT OF HON. DAN SULLIVAN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me start 
by saying that my heart goes out to the families and loved ones 
of the victims lost in the American Airlines Flight 5342 
disaster at DCA, and not long after that, unfortunately, as 
well, the Bering Air crash near Unalakleet and Nome, Alaska, 
flying over the Norton Sound area. And I am thankful for the 
Chairman for holding this hearing and appreciate the NTSB, and 
FAA, and DoD focusing on the after actions, so this does not 
happen again, either here in D.C. or in my state.
    And I do want to focus a little bit on my state, the great 
state of Alaska, because as I think all three of you know, we 
have very high rates of airplane crashes, highest in the 
country, and airplane crash fatalities, which is why we 
launched, with the NTSB's good work in 2020, and the FAA's good 
work in 2020, the FAA Alaska Safety Initiative, called FAASI. 
And in last year's FAA reauthorization I was able to include a 
number of provisions with the goal of reducing the rate of 
fatal aircraft accidents by 90 percent--that is a very 
ambitious goal--and require the FAA to improve maintenance of 
weather equipment.
    So, Mr. Administrator, I want to get into that topic a 
little bit. I was just home. It came up a lot, how there might 
be cancellations of weather operations and infrastructure and 
reporting, which makes zero sense to me. I hope our Federal 
Government is not doing that. But one of the things in the FAA 
bill, I was able to include requirements for systematic 
improvements to the maintenance of our weather systems and 
advancing new technologies, and this includes a mandate for the 
FAA to take necessary actions to restore full connectivity of 
weather systems that are unable to disseminate information due 
to a telecommunications failure. We have telecommunications 
challenges in a state the size of mine.
    So you can you talk to that, Administrator Rocheleau? And 
then I would like to get an update from your perspective on 
where we are on the FAASI initiative. As you know, the 
Secretary of Transportation, in our press conference that we 
all did together--and again, I appreciate everybody 
participating in that--has made this a very top priority of 
his, and yet as we saw in Alaska we had a fatal crash that 
hopefully we are going to learn from.
    Can I ask you on the data link, telecoms, weather 
reporting, which is a big deal for my state?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. I appreciate that. And I 
appreciate the opportunity to talk a little bit more, based on 
our previous conversation, your leadership. As a result of that 
and your request I did travel recently to Alaska to go and 
understand more. I met with the NTSB lead investigator along 
with my investigators as it related to the Bering Air tragedy.
    Senator Sullivan. By the way, thank you both for coming up 
to Alaska. I know it is not the easiest, closest state to get 
to from Washington, D.C., but it is important that you are 
showing my constituents that it matters.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir, and I agree. It is very important, 
I understand having been there a number of times, the unique 
nature of Alaska, certainly its topography as well as the need 
for safe aviation operations.
    So related to, again, reauthorization and the commitment to 
work to have better communications throughout Alaska, one of 
the initiatives, one of the reasons I went to Anchorage was to 
understand more about how the maintenance issues, the 
connectivity issues, whether that is on the telco side or 
satellite. And one of the things we are doing right now, and I 
met with our own technical operations people in the area, to 
test Starlink, so satellite. Because of the unique nature of 
it, and the difficulty with telco, we needed another solution. 
And one of the ways we believe we can do that is using 
satellite-based technology. So that is what we are 
experimenting with right now.
    Senator Sullivan. Well, by the way, I really appreciate--
you know, the press here kind of went crazy, and oh, Starlink. 
I mean, that is actually really helpful for us. And we 
appreciated the Secretary called me and said, ``Hey, we are 
going to connect some of these terminals through Starlink, 
because that is the most effective way to do it.'' So I 
appreciated that you guys were working it.
    Can you give me an update, or Madam Chair, an update on the 
FAASI Initiative, and then any preliminary findings you are 
seeing from the NTSB preliminary report on the Bering Air 
crash?
    Senator Moran. Senator Sullivan, this needs to be your last 
question.
    Senator Sullivan. It is, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Homendy. We are still working on that investigation, of 
course. The preliminary report was issued and did find that the 
aircraft was over 1,000 pounds overweight. But we also are 
going to look at the center of gravity on that airplane and see 
how that factored in. And then we are really focused in on 
weather that day, as well. As you noted, weather infrastructure 
is critical for Alaska, and we have a number of recommendations 
on weather observing stations and also the importance of pilot 
reports and having air traffic control when a pilot reports 
weather conditions, to pass that information along to other 
pilots in the area. And that is something we are looking at as 
part of this investigation, in particular.
    Senator Sullivan. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Senator Moran. Senator Sullivan, thank you. I do not want 
to diminish the circumstances that Alaskans faced and the 
circumstance you, as their Senator, represent. We are trying to 
get everybody's questions in before the vote closes, and I 
recognize Senator Klobuchar.

               STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA

    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Chairman. Thank 
you. And to the families, such a tragedy, and I know there are 
those watching at home as well, including the family of Wendy 
Jo Schaffer, a Minnesotan, mom, two little kids, and husband, 
and we lost her.
    So, Chair, I want to thank you for your work. I know how 
complicated these investigations are. And could you just 
briefly talk about any open recommendations on communications 
that do not come out of this, that the NTSB--I know you have 
over 1,000 open safety recommendations. And while this 
investigation is ongoing, just open recommendations related to 
technology and anything that would improve communication?
    Ms. Homendy. Related to this investigation?
    Senator Klobuchar. Not related.
    Ms. Homendy. Oh, not related. We have a number of 
recommendations that remain open, including a number of 
recommendations issued to the FAA. On communications, in 
particular, I mean one thing I will mention, that we have not 
talked about, that we are looking at as part of this 
investigation, is our long-standing belief that ADS-B In also 
needs to be mandated by the FAA. We do not know what relevance 
that has to this investigation yet. However, it is a long-
standing position of the NTSB. It will provide key information 
to pilots. And in 2008, in our comments for Notice of Proposed 
Rulemaking to FAA, where they decided not to require it, we 
said equipage of aircraft with ADS-B In capability will provide 
an immediate and substantial contribution to safety.
    Just a couple of years ago, and we just talked about 
Alaska, we investigated a midair collision in Ketchikan, and we 
reiterated--and this is the statement--that NTSB remains 
concerned that without a requirement to install and use ADS-B 
supported airborne traffic advisory systems, midair collisions 
will continue to occur. And that was in 2019. So we will look 
at that as part of this investigation.
    Senator Klobuchar. OK. Thank you. We all know full funding 
of the FAA could not be more important. Last year, we passed 
the bipartisan FAA Bill to improve aviation, workforce 
training. And actually Senator Braun, then-Senator Braun, now 
Governor, and I had the bill to require the FAA to conduct 
maximum hiring of air traffic controllers at the FAA Academy. 
And I guess I would ask you, Acting Director Rocheleau, you 
discussed in your testimony the efforts that Secretary Duffy 
and the FAA have taken to bolster the air traffic workforce. I 
think 91 percent of the air traffic control facilities operate 
below recommended staffing levels. I think they are 3,000-some 
short. This I got from some of the people who do this work.
    Can you talk to the current state of staffing and how do 
you plan to maintain recruiting levels? We did have an 
increase, I believe, last year.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, Senator, and thank you for the 
question. This is a very important issue for the Secretary and 
myself, as we look at the safety of the national airspace 
system, in general, but certainly as we are looking to bring 
the best and brightest controllers into the airspace system, to 
make sure that we are providing that safety for Americans as 
they travel through the air.
    I would say that as a result of this surge we had over 
10,000 applications. Over 8,000 of those have now been referred 
to testing. We have streamlined the process, cut roughly 5 
months off that process. So going forward we intend to have no 
empty seat at any upcoming Academy classes.
    I would also say that we expect our partnerships with other 
schools, universities, to be able to bring more people into the 
career field itself. It is an exciting career. And even 
incentivizing students to come to Oklahoma City, with an 
additional 30 percent. We have kind of put all our focus on 
this effort in addition to the many other things we have got 
going on. But controller hiring is of paramount importance.
    Senator Klobuchar. Very good. As you know, we have very 
active airports in Minnesota, a major hub. I would ask you to 
look at the Duluth air traffic control tower, just because it 
is the third-oldest in the Nation. And Secretary Duffy is aware 
of it. It has had flooding, and it is a major air base up 
there, as well, for the Guard.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Klobuchar. Yes. And Representative Stauber and I 
have been working together on that.
    Anyway, last question is just the importance of fully 
funding the FAA. Quickly for both of you, or all three of you--
--
    Ms. Homendy. I can talk about fully funding the NTSB.
    Senator Klobuchar. Yes, please do.
    Ms. Homendy. I mean, you are important, but we did get an 
increase in funding that I do want to thank you for, to 145 in 
the CR. It was an anomaly. But for fully staffing the NTSB, 
right now we are at 427. We went down in the last couple of 
months because people left. We will be able to go up to 450. 
But fully staffing the NTSB to accomplish our mission would 
require hiring between 485 and 500 personnel, which requires 
resources. So as you consider Fiscal Year 2026, it would be 
helpful.
    Senator Klobuchar. That is very helpful.
    Mr. Rocheleau. And I certainly echo those sentiments. Fully 
funding the FAA is critical, not just for the workforce but for 
our facilities and equipment. The situation is quite concerning 
to me, as I review over 30 percent of our facilities being 
unsustainable going forward. We have to invest in that 
infrastructure going forward.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. I know that is no solace to 
the families, but knowing that you are stepping back and 
looking at all of this right now, so other tragedies can be 
avoided. It could not be more important. So thank you very 
much.
    Senator Moran. It gives me an opportunity to editorialize. 
We need to pass appropriation bills and not continue to utilize 
continuing resolutions. That is directed at not necessarily at 
my colleagues here, but my colleagues generally.
    Senator Duckworth.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I agree with 
your last statement. I just have two quick questions. General 
Braman, I have never had a warrant officer be afraid to tell me 
when I was doing something wrong in the aircraft, and I prefer 
to have them as a pilot-in-command to myself. Speak a little 
bit to crew resource management and how it works in an air 
crew, and speaking to Senator Schmitt's question, not just 
about between the two pilots but also the role of the crew 
chief, and do they have the ability to speak up, as well?
    General Braman. Thank you, Ranking Member Duckworth. There 
is nothing more important in the air crew than crew resource 
management, and that is taught from day one, and everyone has 
an equal voice. Obviously, the pilot-in-command is the one that 
is designated with the authority to command that aircraft, but 
I have never been in an aircraft that was ever in an 
environment where all members were not a valued member of the 
team, and we rely on all those members to accomplish the 
missions we are doing.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. I am just going to wrap up by 
saying how important it is to fund and resource the NTSB. You 
guys do amazing work. You, yourself, Chairwoman, oftentimes I 
will call you when something happens, whether it was a door 
plug incident or something, and you were already on the ground 
or in the air, on your way there. And you need the resources to 
do your work. And as we are seeing from this investigation, how 
critically important that is, not just to find out what 
happened, but to prevent future accidents. So I could not agree 
with you more that we should be funding you.
    Mr. Rocheleau, I think we also need to look at the 
facilities at FAA, and we need to talk to that. I would love to 
get your commitment to come out and tour the facilities in the 
Chicagoland area and see the condition of this repair that they 
are in.
    Mr. Rocheleau. I commit to that. Thank you, Senator.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. And with that I am going to 
turn it back over to the Chairman, who has been very generous.
    Senator Moran. Thank you, Senator Duckworth. I am going to 
ask just a couple of tidbits--I hope they are important 
questions more than tidbits--but I hope they will be short so I 
can go vote, and I think that Senator Duckworth will close out 
the hearing in my absence.
    First of all, the fact that ADS-B Out, there is evidence 
that transmissions were not received. And apparently the Army 
does not know that they were not received. Why doesn't the FAA 
know they are not received?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I am not aware of that. I know it is part of 
the ongoing investigation. I do not believe that we receive any 
helicopter information from the Army.
    Senator Moran. But somebody has to be reporting that they 
were sent but not received. Who do they report that to?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Again, I think that is part of the 
investigation. My assumption would be the Army.
    Senator Moran. OK.
    Senator Duckworth. Well, no. The Army could have it turned 
on but I think what the Chairwoman is saying is that the 
receiving stations got no data, so the Army has got it turned 
on and they do not know that it is not receiving. So this is, 
again, this communication issue between the different agencies.
    Senator Moran. Senator Duckworth was speaking on my behalf. 
She said it exactly right.
    Senator Duckworth. I said you were generous.
    Senator Moran. I think this is my concluding question, and 
then I recognize Senator Markey. This is to you, Mr. Rocheleau. 
What is the current state of operations at DCA? How are they 
different today than they were on January 29?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. Again, I appreciate the 
opportunity to explain. So immediately after January 29, we 
restricted the airspace in the yellow boxes I showed in the 
previous graphic for mixed traffic. So no helicopters or fixed-
wing will be in that box, if you will.
    Senator Moran. The yellow.
    Mr. Rocheleau. The yellow box, going forward. In the red 
section----
    Senator Moran. That is still true today.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir, and that is permanent. We have 
made that permanent. We have also eliminated Route 4 and Route 
6, the crossing that goes over to Bolling Air Force Base from 
DCA.
    Senator Moran. Any other changes? I would ask about number 
of flights. It appears to me, and my understanding is there are 
fewer flights utilizing Reagan National Airport?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir. Thank you. So in the aftermath we 
reduced the arrival rate. A lot of that was to support the NTSB 
ongoing investigation and the emergency response work. Today we 
are running at what we call a 30 rate, so 30 arrivals an hour. 
And we are doing that largely in partnership--I mean, we have 
received great information from the NTSB regarding some 
feedback they were receiving during their preliminary 
investigation, regarding the workload on the controllers 
themselves. Obviously, a tragic event has an effect. I mean, 
these people come to work every day. They care about what they 
do. And so we reduced the rate down to 26. Slowly we moved back 
to now we are at 30 rate.
    Senator Moran. And will stay constant or change in the 
future?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Right now that is constant. That is staying. 
We are continuing to monitor that.
    Senator Moran. For the foreseeable future, the 30--is it 
32?--30?
    Mr. Rocheleau. It can go to 32, but right now we are at 30, 
and we plan to maintain that until such time as we assess the 
safety and being able to go to a higher rate.
    Senator Moran. Senator Markey, are you OK if I continue 
just a moment? I often, almost without exception, when I am 
chairing a hearing, ask the witnesses at the end, at the 
conclusion of the hearing, is there anything that you want to 
correct that you did not say, as you wish to say it, something 
you want to make sure we hear. And then I will turn the 
conducting this hearing over to Senator Duckworth. Ms. Homendy?
    Ms. Homendy. That is when all my staff cringe when I chime 
in. On this one, I would say I know there is a lot of focus on 
the FAA right now. I do think they are very focused on safety. 
We have an excellent relationship and have been in 
communication constantly since this accident.
    I would say one area we are really looking at also is how 
the Army evaluates when there is reporting of close calls. Do 
they get those reports, the Army I am talking about, and how do 
they communicate? At the battalion level, how do they 
communicate and talk about safety? How do they evaluate safety? 
Are they getting reports? Are they monitoring their own 
helicopters that might exceed altitude levels?
    We have found so far that a lot of the conversation and 
safety discussion at the battalion level is really focused on 
OSHA's slips, trips, and falls. There is a disconnect on some 
of the discussion around safety and safety assurance from the 
Army as a whole versus the battalion level. So we are really 
looking at that.
    Senator Moran. Please answer this question, but just in my 
absence.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir, and I appreciate the opportunity. 
I just want to make it crystal clear that something was missed 
at the DCA crash. I take that seriously. I take that upon 
myself. I returned to the FAA just two months ago because I 
care about the National Airspace system and the safety and the 
workforce, and I am dedicated to continuing that work. And I 
will continue to review what I mentioned before with respect to 
the hotspots, working closely with NTSB, to learn what happened 
here, and to make sure it never happens again.
    Senator Duckworth [presiding]. General, I am going to ask 
you to suspend so Mr. Markey can ask his questions, because he 
is going to miss a roll call vote if he doesn't get to. I 
recognize Senator Markey.

               STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD MARKEY, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM MASSACHUSETTS

    Senator Markey. Thank you so much, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman, Ranking Member. I want to take a moment to express my 
deepest condolences to the families who lost loved ones in the 
tragic crash in January. Your pain is unimaginable, and your 
presence here today is a powerful reminder of the lives that 
were so suddenly and unfairly taken.
    I want to specifically note the individuals from the 
Skating Club of Boston who passed away in this crash: Spencer 
Lane, Christine Lane, Jinna Han, Jin Han, Evgenia Shishkova, 
Vadim Naumov.
    We had a similar plane crash in 1961 that devastated the 
Skating Club of Boston. The trauma for the City of Boston and 
for your families is great. So please know that we grieve with 
you, and we are committed to finding answers and accountability 
in honor of those who you have lost.
    Chair Homendy, thank you and the entire NTSB team for your 
work to investigate this crash. I want to discuss the altitude 
of the Black Hawk helicopter. NTSB's preliminary report notes 
that a few minutes before the crash the pilot indicated that 
the helicopter was flying at an altitude of 300 feet, while the 
instructor pilot said it was at 400 feet. The report also found 
that helicopters may have been above the altitude restriction 
in over half of near misses that triggered an advisory on the 
plane's traffic alert and collision avoidance system.
    In your experience, are altitude discrepancies like this 
common, and are you concerned that Black Hawk altimeters may 
have a systemic problem?
    Ms. Homendy. This barometric altimeter, we have done 
substantial examination on it. We do not think we are going to 
get much from this altimeter because there was such damage. We 
are going to have to look at other data.
    But I think it is too early to really say what the 
discrepancy was or whether it was a discrepancy. There was no 
information other than 1.1 nautical miles west of the Key 
Bridge when the pilot flying said, ``I'm at 300,'' and the 
pilot instructor said, ``I have you at 4.'' There was no 
further discussion of why. So there is a lot of work that still 
has to be done.
    Senator Markey. OK. Administrator Rocheleau, on a related 
issue, Elon Musk recently made alarmist claims about the FAA's 
air traffic control communications system. He said, ``The FAA 
assessment is single-digit months to catastrophic failure, 
putting air traffic safety at serious risk. The situation is 
extremely dire.'' Elon Musk is in charge of all the 
investigations into every single Federal agency. That is scary.
    This is at the same time that he may be pushing for 
Starlink, his own company, to take over the contract to upgrade 
the communication system. And one month ago, the FAA announced 
it was deploying multiple Starlink terminals across the 
country.
    Given these systems critical importance to our aviation 
system, these developments raise serious questions about 
aviation safety. So I would like you to set the record straight 
on this issue of he said basically we have single-digit months 
to catastrophic failure, putting air traffic safety at serious 
risk. Is that tweet accurate?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I would say that the circumstances around 
our air traffic system are in great need of renewal. We need to 
modernize----
    Senator Markey. I did not ask you that. The public needs to 
hear this. Are we within single-digit months to catastrophic 
failure, putting air traffic safety at serious risk?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I know we need new air traffic control 
facilities. I know we need that. I know----
    Senator Markey. So you are saying we are at risk. Is that 
what you are saying? Are you agreeing with him that we are?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I am saying our air traffic system needs 
modernization as soon as possible.
    Senator Markey. You understand, we cannot have people 
heading for airports all across the country right now with Elon 
Musk, the ear of the President, saying that we are within 
single-digit months of catastrophic failure. Can you assure 
people that that is not the case right now?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I can assure you, to the flying public, to 
fly is safe. We have the safest, most complex system in the 
world, and it is safe to fly. I would also say the air traffic 
system is in dire need of upgrade, and it is something the 
Secretary and I have been working on intensely.
    Senator Markey. Well, so you are saying that this is not 
right, we are not within months of a catastrophic failure. 
Because I do not think anyone wants to put a family member on a 
plane right now with this kind of assessment. Have you made the 
assessment that we are within single-digit months of 
catastrophic failure? Have you made that assessment?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I have reviewed assessments in the last two 
months and understand that our equipment needs to be upgraded.
    Senator Markey. I did not ask you that. Is the existing 
equipment safe?
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes.
    Senator Markey. Is the existing equipment putting traveler 
safety at serious risk? Yes or no.
    Mr. Rocheleau. The existing system is safe.
    Senator Markey. Is safe. All right. We need to know that. 
Are any SpaceX employees serving as special government 
employees at the FAA right now?
    Mr. Rocheleau. We had three special government employees 
from SpaceX. We are only in contact with one at this point. I 
would make it very clear they did not do any air traffic--they 
did not plug into any of the equipment. They came in to observe 
our operations and provided expertise along the lines of 
software and computer systems.
    Senator Markey. Did any employee have any involvement in 
the FAA's decision to deploy Starlink terminals in February?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I am sorry, if you could just repeat that 
question.
    Senator Markey. Did any of those DOGE employees have any 
involvement in the FAA's decision to deploy Starlink terminals 
in February?
    Mr. Rocheleau. There were no DOGE employees in that 
decision. Starlink is being tested at a number of our 
facilities, only tested and not plugged into any air traffic 
systems.
    Senator Markey. Are any of these employees involved in the 
decisionmaking process around the deployment of additional 
Starlink terminals?
    Mr. Rocheleau. No, sir.
    Senator Markey. OK. So I recognize that Starlink terminals 
may be an effective communications tool in remote areas, and I 
am sure Starlink engineers think highly of their potential. We 
just need to be extremely careful----
    Mr. Rocheleau. Yes, sir.
    Senator Markey.--in making these life-and-death decisions 
that they are not based on any pre-existing professional biases 
or financial conflicts. That is your job. You have got to make 
sure this is the way we operate, because we are going to have 
hearings on this as this year and next year unfold.
    So I thank you, and I thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. I want to return to General 
Braman so he can conclude his remarks.
    General Braman. Thank you, Senator. I do want to clarify 
two quick points, one on the memo requested by the Chairman, 
both Chairmen. It can be made available. However, it is part of 
the investigation. That is the unit's memo that discusses how 
they utilize ADS-B Out Off. It is their policy letter. It is in 
the purview of the investigation. That is why it is not 
currently releasable. But certainly when the NTSB and the other 
investigations have done their due diligence we can look to 
make that available to the Committee.
    Senator Duckworth. Ms. Homendy?
    Ms. Homendy. For the NTSB, if the policy existed prior to 
the collision, you can provide it. That can be provided.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. What is your second point, 
General?
    General Braman. And the second one, talking about whether 
we are willing to change the policy, the Army's policy. The 
Army is always willing to review its policy. Am I prepared to 
make a decision on ADS-B Out right now. No, Senator, but I want 
to do that informed by the facts that we have and this 
investigation, and those will drive policy changes. And that is 
not the Army policy. That is DOD policy, and the Army certainly 
has a vested interest in getting it right.
    At the end of the day, what I am most concerned about is 
the rigid application of that policy, that it is being done 
correctly, and not being abused. And that is part of this 
investigation, as well.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. Senator Cantwell.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to just 
go back to this process, how it is set up in the FAA, and how 
we rectify these issues in the future. But, Chairwoman Homendy, 
I think you are saying, in your earlier testimony, that even if 
the Black Hawk helicopter had hugged the shoreline as 
originally described, that even that route that is outlined is 
insufficient, your investigation showed that even that is 
insufficient.
    Ms. Homendy. Intolerable risk to aviation safety.
    Senator Cantwell. OK. Intolerable risk to aviation safety. 
So Acting Administrator, how did we get to a point where we 
have a route, that is allowed and mapped, that the military is 
flying, that is interfacing with commercial aviation, that as 
by the very definition the NTSB is saying, even if they flew 
the correct path, was an intolerable risk. I think you are 
saying that because the difference in separation was just too 
small. Too small.
    Ms. Homendy. There was virtually no margin of error.
    Senator Cantwell. No margin of error. How are you defining 
margin of error?
    Ms. Homendy. I mean, just looking at this--and I think you 
have the printout in front of you, hopefully, or staff has it, 
that we provided. This is not for the public. This is in our 
preliminary report and for those behind me. But the charts, 
when we mapped the glide slope and we looked at the helicopter 
route, which has no lateral boundaries, it is 75 feet max if 
you are hugging the shoreline.
    The collision actually occurred to the right and slightly 
above the dashed line, right here. And just so you know, pilots 
landing on Runway 33 do not have to be on this dashed line. 
They can be above or below. But it occurred about to the right.
    Senator Cantwell. You are saying----
    Ms. Homendy. They were not on this route. They were 
slightly over.
    Senator Cantwell. You are saying under this route. They 
could have been below or above this line. But you are now 
saying that 75 feet is not enough separation.
    Ms. Homendy. Seventy-five feet is the max. Because there 
are no lateral boundaries on this route it goes down as you 
come over. So helicopters are not always on that eastern 
shoreline, which is where the 75 feet is marked, and they were 
not in this situation. They were actually to the right of this 
gray-shaded area, which indicates the route that has no 
boundaries.
    Senator Cantwell. But I thought your analysis, even if they 
were on that route, it is still an intolerable risk----
    Ms. Homendy. Correct.
    Senator Cantwell.--because there is not enough separation.
    Ms. Homendy. Seventy-five feet is very small.
    Senator Cantwell. Right. So how did we get to this point, 
is my question? How did we get to this point? It is like it is 
a series of errors here, a series of errors. And so I am just 
trying to understand, Acting Administrator, what office is 
responsible for this? What office is responsible for the 
exemption to the rule, which just made it worse? But what 
office said this is a safe pathway, in agreement, when the NTSB 
is telling us today it never really was safe? It was not. It 
was an intolerable risk.
    Mr. Rocheleau. And certainly I understand today, and even 
after the preliminary report that was the assessment. I can 
tell you that--and I am sure we will learn more over time as to 
how the airspace was redesigned. I know that as a result of 
previous incidents that we have talked about earlier today 
there were changes over time with respect to that airspace. But 
it is one of the reasons why we immediately terminated those 
types of operations after the event. So Route 4, Route 6, no 
mixed traffic into the airspace. Those are the things that we 
put in place immediately.
    I think when you talk about how did we get there, I think 
we are going to learn more of that through the investigation. 
Again, I can confidently say, without knowing specifically what 
is in the investigation, that over time those routes, that 
airspace, was designed--it is one of the reasons why we have 
gone back to the hotspots now throughout the Nation to 
understand the circumstances by which we move traffic safely 
and efficiently.
    Senator Cantwell. What office of the FAA has oversight of 
this issue, as it relates to this area?
    Mr. Rocheleau. So the Air Traffic Organization builds out 
the airspace, and there is an Aviation Safety Office that 
reports directly to me, that oversees the Air Traffic 
Organization.
    Senator Cantwell. And did that office ever bring up any of 
this data or information or have input from anybody that said, 
``We don't like this scenario. There are too many close calls, 
too much interface, too complex, too hard to deal with''?
    Mr. Rocheleau. On this specific route I am not aware of 
that. I know that when we are presented with those, and we have 
been--that is how airspace changes--when we are presented with 
those circumstances, situations, near midair collisions, we 
investigate them and we put mitigations in place.
    Senator Cantwell. Well, I am questioning whether anybody 
was investigating? I mean, that is the issue. You had an alarm 
going off once a month. You had the data. You are saying maybe 
people were not looking at it. And while I get that AI is this 
very new and interesting technology, it is no substitute for 
the FAA having an oversight over this level of traffic.
    So as my colleague, the Chair of this hearing, mentioned, 
now we want to know, do we have other problems in other 
airspaces? I mean, we are very focused on DCA, but now we want 
to know, we have big military complexes, 10 military 
installations in the state of Washington. I am sure Chicago has 
a lot. We want to know, do we have to worry about this 
somewhere else because the FAA is not looking, and does not 
have an organization that is overseeing this information?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I agree 100 percent with you. This is of 
utmost concern to me, not just in the DCA area, which again, we 
have put measures in place to reduce the risk and to make the 
airspace less complex. This is one of the reasons why we have a 
task force working on what we are calling hotspots, to ensure 
that we are looking at airspace design wherever we have mixed 
traffic, in 10 locations, I believe it is a total of 20, 21 
airports specifically, to see where similar traffic like this 
needs mitigation.
    Senator Cantwell. So you say this office reports directly 
to you, and you say they oversee these areas and the interface.
    Mr. Rocheleau. Let me be clear about that. The office that 
oversees air traffic reports directly to me. The task force, 
the group of people that are looking at these hotspots 
specifically are multiple parts of the agency--air traffic, 
aviation safety, airports. So we have a number of people as 
part of that effort to make sure that we are looking at the 
airspace design, and if we find risk, we react.
    Senator Cantwell. Well, there was risk, for sure. There was 
risk. It was being sounded in an alarm, and it was not being 
addressed. So now we have to figure out why that was not being 
addressed. There is a lot of information here that says very 
high risk, very high risk. So why was that ignored, or was no 
one looking at it? So we need an answer.
    I think this Committee did very good work, in my opinion, 
after the Columbia accident, and set up more safety offices to 
make sure that we never miss something like that again. And I 
feel like that is the issue we are asking you today. So we need 
to understand what you think is in place, and why, if it was in 
place, did we miss this, because little pieces of the 
responsibility were delegated to various parts of the 
organization and nobody had a holistic approach, or data, lots 
of data, and it is being ignored.
    But this is clear--clear--that this was an unacceptable 
design. It is just unacceptable, and I do not know how we got 
there.
    I do want to ask you, are you now supportive of ADS-B In as 
a requirement, making sure that carriers, like this regional 
jet--again, I mentioned earlier it is $20,000 or so per plane--
why can't we just say we are going to do this?
    Mr. Rocheleau. I did understand from the Chair earlier that 
it has been an ongoing recommendation. I have not personally 
looked into that in the last two months as to what the 
expectations are on ADS-B In. I know that equipage on aircraft 
throughout the system can be challenging, but I certainly will 
take that back and look into it, to figure out what 
specifically ADS-B In, what would be required to mandate that. 
Certainly if Congress passes a law we would, as we did with----
    Senator Cantwell. Well, we already did, by the way. We 
already did. It was called the Reauthorization Bill. And as I 
said in my opening statement, we basically authorized spending 
for this through the equipage program. And you can discuss how 
this actually gets deployed, but I am pretty sure the consumer 
ends up paying for it, regardless, in some way.
    So the point is, NTSB has been recommending this. Is that 
right, Chairwoman?
    Ms. Homendy. That is correct.
    Senator Cantwell. You have recommended this since 2008?
    Ms. Homendy. And I have to look, but I think we actually 
have recommendations on ADS-B In that precedes that. Those were 
comments, and if I may, may I add our 2008 comments to the 
hearing record.
    Senator Duckworth. Without objection.
    [The information referred to follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Senator Cantwell. So I think, Acting Administrator, I think 
we need to hear from the Department of Transportation and the 
FAA that they understand that these recommendations have been 
on the table, and you need to respond to them.
    We do not want to keep doing this, which is having one 
organization, who has to investigate all the accidents, deal 
with all the families, deal with the grief and emotion, and 
then have an FAA that gets too cozy with industry and gives 
them exemptions. We do not want that.
    So what we want is you to listen to the NTSB. And I know 
this is historic. I am not blaming any administration. It is 
historic. It is historic. It has been there since the beginning 
of the big crashes that we have had, way before the Max, where 
the FAA makes safety recommendations, and then they are ignored 
for like, oh, I don't know, sometimes a decade, and then people 
finally say, ``Oh, OK.'' But we owe it to these families. We 
owe it to them now. It is not that hard to get this done.
    So I hope that you will take this back to the Secretary, 
have an internal discussion, and basically agree it is time to 
get this done.
    Ms. Homendy. And if I may add, and we are going to look at 
this as part of our investigation to see how it could have 
factored in, but the CRJ had ADS-B Out. It did not have ADS-B 
In. So we are going to look at what that information could have 
provided to that flight crew and how it could have made a 
difference. We have seen that in other investigations, which is 
why we have these recommendations.
    Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Senator Duckworth. Thank you. I do think that a nationwide 
look is important, and I am glad that FAA is looking at the 
hotspots. I understand that many of these routes, it is not 
just the military that is flying them. It is local law 
enforcement. It is Federal law enforcement. It is hospitals 
that are all flying them, as well. But I do think beyond a very 
local, hyper-local look, a national look is really important.
    Thank you all for coming. Again, my condolences to the 
family members. And I just want to say again, thank you again 
to Chairwoman Homendy, thank you, Mr. Rocheleau. I know you 
have only been the Acting for a couple of months. We have been 
without an FAA Administrator for three years prior to your 
immediate predecessor. And again, General Braman, thank you for 
being here.
    Thank you to all the witnesses for their important 
testimony today. Senators will have until the close of business 
on Thursday, April 3, to submit questions for the record. The 
witnesses will have until the close of business on Thursday, 
April 17, to respond to those questions.
    And this concludes today's hearing. The Committee stands 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:26 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

     Response to Written Question Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to 
                         Hon. Jennifer Homendy
                         
    Question. You described the findings of your investigation related 
to the ADS-B Out transmissions of the battalion, indicating that of the 
16 Lima model Blackhawks, seven were transmitting ADS-B Out when turned 
on, and eight were not. Five of those eight began transmitting since 
the NTSB identified the issue. Since you shared this with the 
Subcommittee, has your investigation been able to isolate the reason as 
to why those aircraft ADS-B Out equipment were not transmitting?
    Answer. Our initial review of the transponders' configuration on 
the helicopters that were not transmitting ADS-B Out revealed that a 
setting not normally manipulated by the crew was set incorrectly after 
the ADS-B equipment was installed.
                                 ______
                                 
Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Shelley Moore Capito to 
                         Hon. Jennifer Homendy
                         
    Question 1. Chair Homendy, I appreciate all of your and the NTSB's 
dedication to finding the answers. The aircraft pilot gets the T-CAS 
warning of ``traffic! Traffic! traffic!'' then hears the tower say go 
for visual separation and then the helicopter possibly mixes up the 
aircraft with one by the Wilson bridge and 19 seconds later the 
collision happens.
    Is visual separation typically requested at such a huge distance or 
would the chopper have known that that ATC request should mean a plane 
only a few hundred feet away?
    Answer. It is common at DCA for helicopters to request visual 
separation at varied distances when operating throughout the DCA class 
B airspace.
    The first time the helicopter crew reported having traffic in sight 
and asked to maintain visual separation occurred when the distance 
between the two aircraft was about 6.5 nautical miles.
    About a minute and a half later, the tower asked the helicopter 
crew if the CRJ was in sight. The crew indicated that traffic was 
visible and again requested visual separation. This is when the crew of 
flight 5342 received the TCAS advisory. At this time, the aircraft were 
about 0.95 nautical miles apart.

    Question 2. I know that the tower was able to communicate to both 
the helicopter and the plane and that they could both hear the message 
about visual separation after the ``Traffic! Traffic! Traffic!'' T-CAS 
warning went off in the plane. I know there are plenty of reasons why 
aircraft should not be able to communicate directly with one another 
such as talking over each other but in an instance where the 
``Traffic!'' warning is blaring in the flight deck would it make sense 
for there to be a communication channel between those two flights?
    Answer. It is certainly preferable for pilots to be on the same 
frequency as ATC and able to hear all transmissions from other aircraft 
as well as from ATC. However, aural alerts that are internal to the 
flight deck, such as a TCAS advisory, would not be audible to other 
aircraft or to ATC.
                                 ______
                                 
   Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Maria Cantwell to 
                         Hon. Jennifer Homendy
                         
    Question 1. Surface Awareness Initiative. As part of FAA's response 
to preventing close calls, the FAA took it upon itself to fast-track 
the deployment of certain technologies at airports to improve air and 
ground traffic visibility, such as the Surface Awareness Initiative 
(SAI) system at airports. Notably, FAA is deploying the cheaper SAI 
system at airports that do not have airport surface surveillance 
systems such as Airport Surface Detection Equipment Model X (ASDE-X) or 
a similar tool known as ADS-B Airport Surface Surveillance Capability 
(ASSC).
    What key capabilities does the Surface Awareness Initiative system 
lack compared to systems like ASDE-X or ASSC?
    Answer. SAI does not have an associated active ground radar, so it 
relies solely on ADS-B for its aircraft and vehicle tracking. In 
addition, unlike ASDE-X and ASSC, it does not currently alert 
controllers of potential conflicts and provide conflict resolution 
instructions.

    Does the deployment of the SAI system satisfy NTSB recommendations 
for installing airport surface surveillance systems at more airports 
across the U.S.? Why or why not?
    Answer. In our report for the February 4, 2023, Austin, Texas, 
runway incursion, we stated that we believe the SAI system could 
potentially satisfy the intent of Safety Recommendation A-24-10, but, 
because the system has not been deployed at any airports, we cannot 
accurately assess if it would address all elements of the 
recommendation.
    The FAA has not yet responded to this recommendation, which was 
issued on June 18, 2024; however, our recommendation was that the 
equipment should alert controllers of potential conflicts, which is not 
currently the case with SAI.

    Question 2. Is FAA's installation of the cheaper SAI system over 
more advanced systems like ASDE-X or ASSC enhancing visibility of 
airport surface environments for air traffic controllers?
    Answer. For those towers that previously did not have surface 
detection capability, SAI provides greater awareness of aircraft and 
vehicles operating on the airport surface.

    In NTSB's view, is FAA making the right choice by prioritizing the 
installation of the cheaper SAI system at airports that do not already 
have airport surface surveillance systems over installing ASDE-X or 
ASSC?
    Answer. With SAI's reduced cost of installation, the FAA can 
provide more airports with some level of surface detection capability. 
However, in its current state, we do not feel SAI is a direct 
replacement for aging ASDE-X or ASSC systems that are already 
installed, and it would actually reduce capabilities at those airports 
if it were used as a direct replacement for those systems.
                                 ______
                                 
  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Tammy Duckworth to 
                         Hon. Jennifer Homendy
                         
    Question 1. Close calls and runway incursions keep happening, 
including a particularly scary one in February at Chicago Midway where 
a landing Southwest flight came within 200 feet of striking a Flexjet 
that had mistakenly entered the runway that the Southwest flight was 
using to land. The Department of Transportation's Inspector General 
recently reviewed FAA's work to mitigate runway incursions and 
concluded that FAA's efforts to analyze runway incursion data and 
develop broader mitigation strategies was hindered by FAA not sharing 
data between organizations--and FAA's tendency to focus on issues at 
particular airports rather than looking for system-wide causes.
    What would NTSB like to see FAA do to better address runway 
incursions?
    Answer. In 2024, the NTSB issued 15 new recommendations to the FAA 
to address safety issues identified in our investigations of runway 
incursions in New York and Austin, Texas. They are provided below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Recommendation     Overall Status              Recommendation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-24-2            Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Encourage Title
                                       14 Code of Federal Regulations
                                       Part 91K, 135, and 121 operators
                                       to incorporate into their
                                       standard operating procedures a
                                       procedural crosscheck that
                                       requires flight crews to
                                       verbalize the number of a runway
                                       they are about to cross, as
                                       indicated by runway signs, unless
                                       an installed automated system
                                       already provides an aural
                                       advisory.
A-24-3            Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Encourage Title
                                       14 Code of Federal Regulations
                                       Part 121 operators to use their
                                       safety management system to
                                       identify flight crew surface
                                       navigation errors resulting from
                                       the performance of concurrent
                                       tasks during taxi and develop and
                                       implement effective risk
                                       mitigation strategies considering
                                       human factors principles.
A-24-4            Open--Unacceptable  TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response             ADMINISTRATION: Collaborate with
                                       aircraft and avionics
                                       manufacturers and software
                                       designers to develop the
                                       technology for a flight deck
                                       system that would provide visual
                                       and aural alerts to flight crews
                                       of traffic on a runway or taxiway
                                       and traffic on approach to land.
                                       (Supersedes A-00-66)
A-24-5            Open--Unacceptable  TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response             ADMINISTRATION: Require that the
                                       technology developed in response
                                       to Safety Recommendation A-24-4
                                       be installed in all newly
                                       certificated transport-category
                                       airplanes. (Supersedes A-00-66)
A-24-6            Open--Unacceptable  TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response             ADMINISTRATION: Require that
                                       existing transport-category
                                       airplanes be retrofitted with the
                                       technology developed in response
                                       to Safety Recommendation A-24-4.
                                       (Supersedes A-00-66)
A-24-7            Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Evaluate the
                                       effectiveness of the activation
                                       logic for the runway status light
                                       system considering the
                                       circumstances of this incident.
A-24-8            Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Using the
                                       findings of the evaluation
                                       conducted in response to Safety
                                       Recommendation A-24-7, update the
                                       runway status light system
                                       activation logic as necessary to
                                       improve system effectiveness.
A-24-9            Open--Unacceptable  TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response             ADMINISTRATION: Require retrofit
                                       of all cockpit voice recorders
                                       (CVR) on all airplanes required
                                       to carry both a CVR and a flight
                                       data recorder with a CVR capable
                                       of recording the last 25 hours of
                                       audio. (Supersedes A-18-31)
A-24-10           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: For airports that
                                       are certificated under Title 14
                                       Code of Federal Regulations Part
                                       139 and are currently not
                                       equipped with airport surface
                                       detection equipment, model X or
                                       airport surface surveillance
                                       capability, implement surface
                                       detection equipment that
                                       tracks the movement of
                                       arriving and departing aircraft,
                                       determines the proximity
                                       between those aircraft, and
                                       provides air traffic
                                       controllers with visual and aural
                                       cues of surface movements to aid
                                       in their decision making
                                       processes.
A-24-11           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Require air
                                       traffic controllers to
                                       advise pilots, through
                                       direct communication and
                                       automatic terminal information
                                       system broadcasts, when visual
                                       contact with aircraft operating
                                       on taxiways and runways cannot be
                                       established or maintained and
                                       instruct pilots to
                                       provide accurate position reports
                                       to aid the controller in
                                       determining an aircraft's
                                       location in such conditions.
A-24-12           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Brief all air
                                       traffic controllers about the
                                       circumstances of this incident,
                                       emphasizing the effect that
                                       certain conditions might have on
                                       a pilot's ability to begin a
                                       takeoff in a timely manner,
                                       including
                                       low-visibility weather
                                       conditions, such as fog;
                                       ambient conditions, such
                                       as temperature; and
                                       surface conditions, such
                                       as ice, snow, and other
                                       precipitation, as noted in Order
                                       7110.65, Air Traffic Control,
                                       paragraph 5-8-4, Departure and
                                       Arrival.
A-24-13           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Amend the
                                       Aeronautical Information Manual
                                       so that it instructs pilots to
                                       inform controllers, before
                                       entering an active runway with
                                       the intent to depart, when they
                                       need time on the runway for any
                                       reason before beginning the
                                       takeoff roll.
A-24-14           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Require all
                                       airports with a Surface Movement
                                       Guidance and Control System plan
                                       to ensure that their plans and
                                       the associated letters of
                                       agreement correspond with each
                                       other and the stakeholder duties
                                       and responsibilities described in
                                       Advisory Circular 120-57, Surface
                                       Movement Guidance and Control
                                       System.
A-24-15           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION: Direct training
                                       administrators at airports with a
                                       Surface Movement Guidance and
                                       Control System plan to require
                                       initial and annual refresher
                                       training for all stakeholders,
                                       including air traffic controllers
                                       and airport operations personnel,
                                       on the information in the
                                       airport's plan.
A-24-16           Open--Initial       TO THE FEDERAL AVIATION
                  Response Received    ADMINISTRATION:
                                      Require training administrators at
                                       all operating air traffic control
                                       towers to conduct annual
                                       refresher training on low-
                                       visibility operations.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Question 2. NTSB's preliminary report documented some inconsistent 
information about the helicopter's altitude readings and determined 
that some of the altitude information on the helicopter's data recorder 
was invalid.
    As NTSB continues its investigation, what will it do to learn what 
the helicopter pilots knew about their altitude and whether their 
equipment was working properly?
    Answer. Numerous components from the Black Hawk will be examined, 
including the barometric altimeters, air data/pitot static system, 
radio altimeters and their antennas, transponder, and electronic 
standby instrument system. The examinations will look for any anomalies 
with the instruments/components, witness marks, and nonvolatile memory. 
In addition, flight data recorder (FDR) information will continue to be 
reviewed and compared with any additional data obtained from follow-up 
examinations in an effort to better understand the invalid pressure 
altitude recorded on the FDR.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jacky Rosen to 
                         Hon. Jennifer Homendy
                         
    Question 1. Aviation professionals are only as effective as the 
infrastructure and technology they rely on. According to the FY24 
President's Budget, the average age of an FAA Air Traffic Control 
facility is 61 years old, and more than 50 percent of terminal 
facilities are more than 40 years old. These facilities regularly 
operate with degraded technology systems, resulting in a lack of 
accurate wind speed and direction calculations, the failure of radio 
frequencies within congested airspace, and the malfunctioning of runway 
lights, just to name a few. Many airports also lack functioning radar 
systems used to track airborne and taxiing planes, meaning that some 
controllers have no visual awareness of the aircraft they are 
directing, especially in poor weather conditions.
    In lieu of functioning radar systems in Air Traffic Control 
facilities, many controllers are resorting to using public flight-
tracking websites that aren't approved by the FAA to fill the gaps.
    Perhaps most alarming are the reports that the FAA lacks the 
funding to install runway warning systems to help prevent runway 
collisions. Only 43 of the Nation's more than 500 airports serving 
commercial flights have runway collision-avoidance systems. This is 
simply not good enough.
    Chair Homendy how can we improve the existing technology and 
infrastructure utilized by air traffic controllers and aviation 
professionals to reduce potential risk and manage congested airports 
and complicated airspace at our Nation's airports?
    Answer. In 2024, we recommended that, for major airports that do 
not have runway surveillance systems such as ASDE-X or ASSC, the FAA 
should implement surface detection equipment that:

   tracks the movement of arriving and departing aircraft,

   determines the proximity between those aircraft, and

   provides air traffic controllers with visual and aural cues 
        of surface movements to aid in their decision-making processes.

    The FAA's Surface Safety Portfolio, which includes SAI, Approach 
Runway Verification (ARV), and Runway Incursion Devices (RID), has the 
potential to improve safety--particularly the SAI, which is providing 
enhanced situational awareness for controllers at those airports that 
previously had no surface detection capability. However, efforts should 
be made to incorporate aural and visual alerting and conflict 
resolution to be more on par with what ASDE-X/ASSC systems deliver 
today.
    In addition, the NTSB has long believed in the safety benefits of 
ADS-B Out and In. ADS-B Out enables an aircraft to broadcast its three-
dimensional position (latitude, longitude, and altitude) to other ADS-
B-equipped aircraft and to ADS-B ground stations. ADS-B In enables an 
aircraft to receive traffic messages from ADS-B Out-equipped aircraft 
and from ADS-B ground stations. Although the FAA requires ADS-B Out for 
aircraft operating in certain classes of airspace, with certain 
exceptions for national security reasons, it does not require ADS-B In. 
The NTSB believes that equipping aircraft with ADS-B In capability 
would immediately and substantially contribute to safety, especially 
during operations in and around airports.
                                 ______
                                 
      Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Ted Cruz to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. On March 27, 2025, you sent letters to the Department 
of Defense, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the 
Department of Justice, and the Department of Homeland Security, 
clarifying the FAA's ADS-B Out requirements and the exceptions for 
missions critical to national security. Section 829 of the FAA 
Reauthorization Act of 2024 prohibits enforcement action based 
exclusively on ADS-B data. What authorities does the FAA have to 
enforce the ADS-B Out equipage and transmission requirements?
    Answer. The FAA has retained its authority to enforce ADS-B Out 
equipage and transmission requirements. However, the FAA's practical 
ability to enforce those requirements has been significantly impeded by 
the limitation in section 829 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2024. 
Pub. L. No. 118-63, Sec. 829 (2024). Section 829 prohibits the FAA from 
initiating an investigation (other than a criminal investigation) based 
exclusively on ADS-B data. Prior to the enactment of section 829, the 
FAA's primary method of identifying noncompliance with ADS-B Out 
equipage and transmission requirements was reviewing ADS-B data, which, 
when combined with radar data, can allow for the identification of 
aircraft operating without properly functioning ADS-B Out equipment. 
The FAA could then investigate those operations, communicating with 
aircraft owners to ensure that their ADS-B Out equipment was returned 
to a functional state or, less commonly, taking enforcement action 
where appropriate (e.g., where an investigation determined that an 
operator was intentionally operating without ADS-B Out equipment turned 
on). Under section 829, these investigations are no longer possible. 
Nor are the enforcement actions that could result from those 
investigations.
    Subject to the significant restrictions imposed by section 829, the 
FAA does retain the authority to enforce ADS-B Out requirements. For 
example, if a hotline complaint is submitted to the FAA about an 
illegal charter operation or an FAA inspector personally observes a low 
flight, ADS-B data may be consulted in the course of those 
investigations, which could reveal that the aircraft did not meet ADS-B 
Out equipage and transmission requirements. Or a report might be 
submitted to the FAA specifically about an ADS-B Out violation, which 
the FAA could then use ADS-B Out data to confirm. In these uncommon 
scenarios, the FAA would be able to take an enforcement action against 
an operator using its authority under 49 U.S.C. Sec. Sec. 44709 or 
46301.

    Question 2. During the hearing on March 27, 2025, questions were 
raised regarding the FAA's ability to override the exemption in the 
NDAA which allowed for exceptions to the FAA's ADS-B Out transmission 
requirements. Does the FAA have the authority to rescind any exemption 
from the ADS-B mandate for the U.S. military?
    Answer. The FAA has full authority ``to operate air traffic control 
services to ensure the safe minimum separation of aircraft in flight 
and the efficient use of airspace,'' to include terminating any 
authorization to deviate from regulatory requirements concerning ADS-B 
Out transmission and equipage or revising the Memorandum of Agreement 
(MOA) it has with DOD concerning the provision of air traffic services 
to DOD aircraft that are not transmitting or equipped with ADS-B. See 
Pub. L. No. 115-232, div. A, title X, Sec. 1046(c) (2018) (providing 
that nothing in section 1046 limits the FAA's authority to operate air 
traffic control services to ensure the safe minimum separation of 
aircraft in flight and the efficient use of airspace).
    Under section 1046(a) of division A, title X, of the John S. McCain 
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019, the Secretary 
of Transportation may not require DOD to equip certain aircraft with 
ADS-B, deny air traffic control services for such aircraft on the basis 
that they are not equipped, or restrict or limit access to airspace 
based upon equipage. Pub. L. No. 115-232, div. A, title X, Sec. 1046(a) 
(2018). FAA and DOD have an MOA, which sets out the process for 
accommodating aircraft that are not equipped with ADS-B and providing 
necessary air traffic control services to such aircraft to maintain 
safety in the NAS. Accordingly, the prohibitive language in section 
1046(a) is no longer effective, as provided in section 1046(b).
    Even if section 1046(a) were effective, the FAA retains full 
authority to revise the MOA as required to operate air traffic control 
services to ensure the safe minimum separation of aircraft in flight 
and the efficient use of airspace under section 1046(c), and the FAA is 
currently working with DOD to revise the MOA following the DCA 
accident.
    As for the ADS-B Out transmission requirement, 14 CFR 
Sec. 91.225(f)(1) allows the FAA to authorize a deviation from the 
transmission requirement for aircraft ``performing a sensitive 
government mission for national defense, homeland security, 
intelligence or law enforcement purposes and transmitting would 
compromise the operations security of the mission or pose a safety risk 
to the aircraft, crew, or people and property in the air or on the 
ground'' when authorized by the FAA. The FAA retains discretion to 
terminate an authorization to deviate from the ADS-B Out transmission 
requirement. Section 1046(a) of Pub. L. No. 115-232, div. A, title X 
only addressed the equipage requirement. As mentioned above, we are 
working with DOD to revise the MOA as it concerns authorization to 
deviate from the ADS-B transmission requirement.
                                 ______
                                 
     Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. John Thune to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. Consistent with the mandate in the 2024 FAA 
reauthorization, can you describe what steps the FAA is taking to 
address air traffic controller hiring shortfalls?
    Answer. The FAA is reviewing our hiring, training, and placement 
processes, as well as FAA Academy withdrawals and failures, to ensure 
our selection methods effectively identify candidates best suited for 
the Air Traffic Control Specialist profession. To ensure we meet or 
exceed our hiring goals, we have:

   Supercharged hiring--Streamlined the hiring process and 
        built in efficiencies that will reduce the time to complete the 
        process by as much as five months.

   Increased the starting salary rate of Track 1 entry-level 
        hires by 30 percent while attending the FAA Academy.

   Offered financial incentives to retain our most experienced 
        controllers who are eligible to retire. Certified professional 
        controllers in this group will receive a lump sum payment of 20 
        percent of their basic pay for each year they continue to work.

   Established the Enhanced Collegiate Training Initiative (E-
        CTI), which gives qualifying colleges the opportunity to teach 
        the same curriculum provided by the FAA Academy. Upon 
        graduation, with a successful result on the Air Traffic Skills 
        Assessment (ATSA), students who clear all pre-employment 
        requirements (medical, security) are placed directly at a field 
        tower facility.

   Increased the frequency of Track 1 entry-level (no aviation 
        experience required) job announcements. Typically, the FAA 
        publishes the Track 1 announcement once per year, and this year 
        we have advertised the position three times in the past 12 
        months. This effort has increased the pipeline by approximately 
        30 percent, placing us on track to meet the FY25 goal of hiring 
        2,000 ATCs.

   Authorized on-the-spot hiring (similar to direct hire 
        authority for most other government agencies) for Track 2 
        entry-level positions (ATC experience required) and utilized an 
        open continuous announcement to garner applicants year-round. 
        Previously, the FAA only announced these positions twice per 
        year--once in the Spring and once in the Fall.

   Implemented Pre-Employment Processing Centers (PEPC) to 
        expedite clearances, providing a ``one-stop-shop'' for pre-
        employment requirements. The FAA established PEPCs in New York, 
        Georgia, Texas, and California to reach the largest applicant 
        geographical locations across the Nation.

    Question 2. Can you describe what actions the FAA is taking to 
streamline the implementation of new technologies and improve safety of 
the Nation's ATC system?
    Answer. Recognizing the need for advanced technologies to keep pace 
with innovation and modernize the air traffic control system, the ATO 
has begun to replace or deploy new infrastructure to maintain the 
safety and efficiency of the national airspace system (NAS):

   Implementation of the Surface Safety Portfolio:
     Expands surface situational awareness for air traffic 
            controllers at airports without existing surface 
            surveillance capabilities.

   Improvement of telecommunications reliability--including 
        fiber, wireless, and satellite.

   Implementation of cloud services to transition the NAS to a 
        secure, scalable, and centrally managed enterprise cloud 
        environment.

   NOTAM modernization efforts to replace the U.S. NOTAM System 
        and Federal NOTAM System.

     Modernizing this system is crucial to enhance its 
            reliability, accessibility, and user-friendliness. The 
            system will be securely hosted in the cloud and have a 
            scalable and resilient architecture. We expect delivery by 
            July 2025 and are targeting operational deployment of the 
            modernized system by September 2025.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. According to the NTSB, between October 2021 and 
December 2024, there were more than 15,000 instances of commercial 
aircraft coming in close proximity to helicopters. Of those events, 85 
had vertical separation of less than 200 feet. How many of those 85 
events involved military helicopters? How many of those close call 
events involved U.S. Army helicopters?
    Answer. We understand the NTSB likely was referring to narrative 
reports that pilots may voluntarily submit. We do not have granular 
information on the dataset the NTSB was referring to, but we 
acknowledge that changes were necessary related to procedures and 
helicopter routes that would have allowed helicopters and fixed-wing 
aircraft to be in close proximity. To that end, the FAA has eliminated 
mixed traffic immediately around DCA, eliminated a portion of 
Helicopter Route 4, and eliminated the use of visual separation within 
5 miles of the airport.

    Question 1a. What factors contributed to the FAA's dilatory 
identification of these alarming data and lack of action to mitigate 
dangerous conditions in the airspace prior to the January 29th 
collision?
    Answer. Successful safety assurance and hazard identification 
require analyzing large amounts of data from various sources to 
understand the presence of risk within the system. We are making 
improvements both in data sharing across the agency and through the use 
of advanced technological tools, including advanced models for the 
analysis of safety reports, capabilities that enable the automated 
identification and ranking of high potential risk encounters, 
capabilities that fuse contextual datasets to translate information on 
potential risk to actual risk, and collision risk models that use 
simulations and artificial intelligence (AI) to identify specific 
operations that do not meet collision risk targets.

    Question 1b. Please describe the process by which the FAA shares 
information--including the data recalled above--with entities 
conducting aviation operations in the National Capital Region airspace. 
Is this information-sharing regime consistent across the NAS?
    Answer. Any agency may request data specific to its fleet from the 
FAA, and we process those requests as described in FAA Orders JO1030.3B 
and JO7200.20B. We also provide information to industry via the 
Aviation Safety Information Analysis and Sharing system (ASIAS).

    Question 2. Please describe the ``D.C. Helicopter Working Group''.
    Answer. The DC Helicopter Working Group is a mixture of FAA and 
users of the airspace around DCA who convened for the purpose of 
development of a new helicopter route or corridor that supports 
national security, law enforcement, and medical helicopter flight 
operations. This published route or corridor will replace the legacy 
Route 4 (on the Baltimore Washington Helicopter Route Chart), enhancing 
efficiency for critical missions while maintaining the highest safety 
standards.

    Question 2a. Who are the entities participating in this working 
group? Chairwoman Homendy described there to be 17 entities taking part 
in this working group.
    Answer. The following entities participated in the working group:

  1.  Prince George's County Police

  2.  Fairfax County Police

  3.  Metro Police

  4.  US Army

  5.  US Air Force

  6.  MD State Police

  7.  US Coast Guard

  8.  US Marine Corps

  9.  Medstar

    Question 2b. Describe the parameters for which this working group 
is studying.
    Answer. As noted in response to question 2 above, the parameters 
are the development of a new helicopter route or corridor that supports 
national security, law enforcement, and medical helicopter flight 
operations. This published route or corridor will replace the legacy 
Route 4 (on the Baltimore-Washington Helicopter Route Chart), enhancing 
efficiency for critical missions while maintaining the highest safety 
standards.

    Question 2c. Is this working group analyzing the other 46 
helicopter operators in the National Capital Region?
    Answer. The task the group is focused on is meant to support how 
national security, law enforcement, and medical helicopter flight 
operations occur within the National Capital Region.

    Question 3. Is a flyover of Arlington National Cemetery considered 
an essential operation?
    Answer. Flyovers are operations that we normally coordinate with 
the Department of Defense (DOD). We are refining our coordination 
procedures with DOD for military operations in the Washington, D.C. 
area.

    Question 4. Do you think the FAA's tolerance for risk was too high 
prior to January 29th?
    Answer. Aviation safety is the FAA's number one priority. While 
flying remains the safest mode of transportation, aviation safety is 
not static. There is always room for improvement. The professionals at 
the FAA take their jobs seriously and strive to maintain safety every 
day. But the fact of the matter is that we have to do better. We have 
to identify trends, we have to get smarter about how we use data, and 
when we put corrective actions in place, we must execute them.

    Question 5. Please describe the advanced technological tools the 
FAA is utilizing to aggregate data to better analyze the airspace 
operations at the high mixed-traffic airports.
    Answer. The FAA's ASIAS program is utilizing advanced technological 
tools, including advanced models for the analysis of safety reports, 
capabilities that enable the automated identification and ranking of 
high potential risk encounters, capabilities that fuse contextual 
datasets to translate information on potential risk to actual risk, and 
collision risk models that use simulations and AI to identify specific 
operations that do not meet collision risk targets.
    Predictive software, coupled with AI textual data large language 
modeling applications, will provide a clearer holistic picture of the 
collision risk by fusing both voluntarily submitted information with 
Flight Operational Quality Assurance data.
                                 ______
                                 
Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Shelley Moore Capito to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. Acting Administrator Rocheleau, there has been a focus 
on how many pilots voluntarily reported close calls to the FAA's safety 
reporting system--these calls averaged at least one per month for more 
than a decade. Were these reports by pilots investigated?
    Answer. The FAA thoroughly investigates all voluntary safety 
reports submitted by a pilot and shared with the FAA. If a potential 
safety risk is identified, whether to the operation or the national 
airspace system, the FAA implements corrective actions, as appropriate.

    Question 1a. What changes can be expected to be made when a 
considerable number of reports like these are made?
    Answer. If the FAA identifies an increase in the number of reports 
involving close calls, we conduct an analysis to determine whether the 
increase in reports equates to an identification of new or increased 
risk. If a risk is identified, appropriate mitigations will be 
developed and implemented, to include ensuring that the performance and 
effectiveness of the safety risk controls meet or exceed the safety 
objective of driving down the risk to an acceptable level in accordance 
with FAA's safety risk management processes.
    The FAA implements specific corrective actions based on the safety 
issue or event to mitigate the identified safety risk. In addition, 
when a significant event occurs or a substantial number of reports are 
received, the FAA conducts a thorough review of current controller 
training programs. This evaluation not only helps to derive insights 
from the reports but also ensures that future controller training 
initiatives are aligned with the goal of continuing to equip 
controllers with the skills necessary to prevent similar situations. 
The aim is to continually enhance training effectiveness.

    Question 1b. Have these pilot reports not only for DCA but for 
other airports been thoroughly reviewed?
    Answer. Yes, the FAA thoroughly investigates all voluntary safety 
reports submitted by a pilot and shared with the FAA. If a potential 
safety risk is identified, whether to the operation or the national 
airspace system, the FAA implements corrective actions, as appropriate.

    Question 1c. Can you provide the number for how many reports have 
been made relating to West Virginia airports in the last 5 years?
    Answer. The ASIAS database contains active reporting for the 
primary commercial service airports in West Virginia: Charleson-CRW, 
Clarksburg-CKB, Huntington-HTS, and Lewisburg-LWB. There are no Near 
Mid Air Collisions (NMAC) reports in the last 5 years at these 
airports.

    Question 2. Please tell us more about the voluntary safety 
reporting system. Does the system account for specific NTSB style data 
points or is it a pilot saying I came within approximately this many 
feet of a helicopter?
    Answer. The primary objective of voluntary safety programs is to 
identify hazards and unsafe conditions in the NAS so that corrective 
action can be taken to eliminate or reduce the hazards or unsafe 
conditions. The FAA reviews the data from these reports to identify 
causal or contributing factors, which support event categorization, 
risk analysis, and data trending. This information can provide context 
to understand a problem or emerging risk in the system.
    For example, the Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS) captures 
specific data points concerning the pilot, the aircraft, the airspace, 
location, and weather conditions, but also allows the pilot to provide 
a narrative to clarify and provide additional details about the event. 
ASRS reports are confidential. ASRS analyzes the safety data, de-
identifies it, and disseminates vital information to the aviation 
community.

    Question 3. In your testimony you mentioned the Safety Panel you 
have put together in response to the collision and how the FAA is using 
AI to see if other safety concerns have been overlooked. Does that 
extend only to fixed-wing and rotorcraft incidents or other types of 
safety incidents?
    Answer. The effort included a review of operations (not incidents) 
between fixed-wing to helicopters and fixed-wing to fixed-wing to 
determine if there were any safety concerns.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Question 4. In the preliminary report there is a map of all the 
helicopter routes in the area (see above). Route 6 goes across the 
airport and the runways East and West. Has that route had close calls 
reported to it as well or was Route 4 the only one?
    Answer. For Route 6, there were four (4) reported operations (1/1/
2021-1/31/2025) in which fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters had a 
closest proximity of less than the required 500' vertical separation. 
The portion of Route 6 in the vicinity of DCA has been closed and 
removed from the published helicopter charts to mitigate any potential 
risk.

    Question 5. We have heard that there are not specific lateral 
boundaries to any of these helicopter routes, but there are vertical 
boundaries. My fear is that with such loose designations for these 
routes it would be easy for a helicopter to easily go wide and deviate. 
DC has the most sensitive airspace in the country but what recourse or 
discipline is there if a chopper deviates and ends up in the ultra-
restricted air space above the National Mall or takes one of these 
routes wide or at too high of an altitude?
    Answer. Helicopters, like other aircraft, are required to comply 
with the FAA's safety regulations, including 14 C.F.R. Sec. 91.123, 
which requires compliance with ATC clearances and instructions. For a 
civilian aircraft, the FAA may address deviations from ATC clearances 
or instructions with compliance action, including remedial training, or 
enforcement action, including the suspension of an individual's pilot 
certificate, as authorized under 49 U.S.C. Sec. 44709(b)(1)(A). For any 
violation of the DC Special Flight Rules Area (SFRA) and DC Flight 
Restricted Zone (FRZ), as described in Part 93, subpart V, the FAA may 
similarly suspend or revoke a pilot's airman certificates or impose 
civil penalties. 14 CFR Sec. 93.333. For violations committed by 
members of the armed forces while performing official duties for the 
Department of Defense, the FAA refers the violation to the appropriate 
branch of the military pursuant to the military referral process 
required under 49 U.S.C. Sec. 46101(b).
    Additionally, if a pilot knowingly or willfully violates national 
defense airspace established pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 40103(b)(3), 
including the DC SFRA and DC FRZ, the pilot may be subject to criminal 
prosecution, including a fine under title 18, or imprisonment for not 
more than one year, or both. 49 U.S.C. Sec. 46307. The FAA refers such 
criminal conduct to the Office of Inspector General (OIG) or to the 
Department of Justice, if appropriate, for criminal investigation under 
5 U.S.C. app. 3.

    Question 6. In your testimony you mentioned that only some 
emergency and special helicopter traffic will continue in the vicinity 
of DCA and only when that air space is closed to planes. Can you 
quantify how many of these operations are still occurring? Is it twice 
a day or more frequently on average?
    Answer. For the period February 19, 2025 through April 30, 2025 (71 
days), there were 45 special helicopter operations, averaging a little 
more than half of 1 (0.63) special helicopter operation per day, within 
this airspace operating at or below 1500 feet.
    Regarding the number of operations that are still occurring, 
between May 1, 2025 and May 20, 2025 (20 days), there have been 23 
special helicopter operations, averaging a little more than 1 (1.15) 
special helicopter operation per day.

    Question 6a. How much of a boundary between that airspace is there 
and how long is the fixed-wing traffic halted?
    Answer. On average, presidential-related operations may pause 
traffic for 9 to 12 minutes, while lifesaving medical-related 
operations may cause a 5-to-7-minute pause to fixed-wing traffic. 
Active law enforcement and/or air defense missions are more fluid.
                                 ______
                                 
   Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Amy Klobuchar to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. On Friday, March 28, 2025, a U.S. Air Force jet flew 
within 500 feet of a Delta Airlines passenger jet departing Reagan 
National Airport to Minnesota. What is the status of investigations 
into this incident?
    Answer. The FAA has completed its preliminary investigation into 
the March 28 event at Reagan National Airport. Through our Safety 
Management System, we continue to identify hazards and implement safety 
measures at the airport and across the National Airspace System.

    Question 1a. How is the FAA and Department of Defense working to 
ensure similar incidents do not happen in the future?
    Answer. The FAA is working on refining coordination procedures 
between air traffic facilities, and internal to air traffic facilities, 
for military operations in the Washington D.C. area. This includes 
specific, clear communication for stopping arriving and departing 
traffic from Reagan Washington National (DCA) to accommodate those 
operations when necessary. The FAA is also taking steps to ensure 
controllers are briefed and have required, specific information prior 
to scheduled aerial flyovers, including routes of flight and timing. 
Collaboratively, the FAA and military partners are addressing pertinent 
Letters of Agreement (LOA) and communication surrounding aerial 
flyovers to ensure all entities have the same expectations and 
operations can be conducted safely in the area.

    Question 2. There has been an alarming number of close calls on 
runways in the past couple of years. Just last month, there were close 
calls involving landing aircraft at Chicago Midway Airport and DCA. I 
led a provision in the FAA reauthorization bill to ensure planes are 
equipped with technology that alerts pilots of nearby planes on the 
runway to help them avoid collisions.
    Can you provide an update on the implementation of this provision 
and adoption of this technology?
    Answer. Section 347 in the 2024 FAA Reauthorization required the 
FAA to establish the Runway Safety Council and identify both surface 
surveillance equipment and equipment on aircraft that ``may improve 
onboard situational awareness for flight crewmembers, including 
technologies for use in an aircraft.'' The section then directs 
deployment of surface surveillance technologies over 5 years.
    Regarding technologies on aircraft, while the section does not 
establish equipage requirements or direct the FAA to establish equipage 
requirements, it does note that the FAA should identify technologies 
and systems that would enhance safety and onboard situational
    awareness. Consistent with that direction, we have tasked the 
Investigative Technologies Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) to seek 
recommendations on cockpit alerting technologies designed to reduce 
runway safety events.
    That ARC, comprised of government and industry stakeholders, has 
been meeting, and we will review recommendations when that work is 
complete.

    Question 3. The primary NOTAM system experienced outages on 
February 1 and March 22 that each lasted multiple hours. Last year, I 
worked with Senators Moran and Capito to pass the NOTAM Improvement Act 
directing the FAA to immediately upgrade this system. While the backup 
system is now in place and was activated to respond to recent outages, 
more work must be done to make all necessary upgrades.
    Can you provide any information on this outage and where things 
stand with the NOTAM Task Force?
    Answer. The recent Notice to Airman (NOTAM) outages were caused by 
hardware failures on the motherboards of the United States NOTAM System 
(USNS) servers. The system's architecture is over 30 years old, with 
the current hardware having been in continuous operation for 
approximately 15 years. On February 1, 2025, the hardware failure 
rendered the USNS system unrecoverable. Within an hour, the technical 
team determined that equipment recovery was not possible and initiated 
failover procedures. Due to the age and design of the system, the 
failover process takes a minimum of four hours, and the full 
restoration of the system took approximately 12 hours. To mitigate 
future outages, the team took immediate steps following the February 1, 
2025, event by staging spare servers and developing a rapid hardware 
swap process. As a result, when a similar motherboard failure occurred 
on March 22, 2025, the team was able to return the system to full 
functionality in less than four hours, without needing to activate the 
Candidate NOTAM Contingency System (CNCS). USNS resumed processing 
NOTAMs within two hours.
    In August 2024, the FAA pivoted to complete NOTAM Modernization 
utilizing a Challenge-Based Acquisition strategy to develop an 
innovative solution that leverages advancements in technology, high-
availability architecture, and resilient infrastructure. The FAA 
selected the vendor to work on this modernization in April 2025, and 
the new NOTAM service is on track for delivery in July 2025 and 
deployment by September 2025. The FAA is also looking to accelerate 
user transition. This enables the FAA to implement our digitalization 
strategy by transitioning from the current legacy NOTAM system to an 
integrated NOTAM Management Service (NMS).
    The NOTAM Task Force submitted recommendations, now under review, 
in accordance with Pub. L. 118-4 (NOTAM Improvement Act) and NTSB 
Safety Recommendation A-18-024.
                                 ______
                                 
  Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Tammy Duckworth to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. There is no question that there is an air traffic 
controller shortage and that we need to do more to address it. As we 
discussed in the hearing, there may be certified air traffic 
controllers are ready and able to return to work--but are just waiting 
on medical clearances. How many controllers around the country are 
waiting for medical clearances to return to work?
    Answer. As of May 8, 103 air traffic controllers are awaiting 
medical clearance to return to work. Of those 103 controllers, 
approximately 80 percent have a medical condition that requires further 
evaluation from their own physician, which they must provide to us 
before we can make a determination concerning their medical clearance.

    Question 1a. What is FAA doing to make sure these medical reviews 
are happening in a timely manner?
    Answer. FAA Order 3930.3C requires the Office of Aerospace Medicine 
to complete a medical clearance within 20 days of receiving of all 
medical documents. Over the last year, the national average has been 
9.9 calendar days. We have identified efficiencies and engaged in 
effective management oversight to ensure our review is completed in a 
timely manner.

    Question 2. In October, the Department of Transportation Inspector 
General reported that shortly before the 737 MAX 9 door plug blowout, 
individuals within FAA wanted to delegate airplane airworthiness 
inspection authority back to Boeing without any criteria by which to 
assess whether Boeing could be trusted to properly carry out these 
inspections. When Boeing last had this authority for the 737 MAX, 
Boeing abused it. Boeing knowingly and repeatedly produced 737 MAX 
aircraft with nonfunctioning Angle of Attack Disagree alerts--in 
blatant violation of the plane's approved type design.
    Will FAA commit to NOT delegating airworthiness inspection 
authority back to Boeing until FAA has implemented all 16 Department of 
Transportation Inspector General Recommendations in its October 9, 2024 
report, ``FAA's Oversight Processes for Identifying and Resolving 
Boeing Production Issues Are Not Effective''?
    Answer. The FAA will utilize all relevant safety data when making a 
determination regarding airworthiness inspection authority. Safety has 
no timeline, and the FAA will continue to hold Boeing accountable.

    Question 3. Following the 737 MAX 9 door plug blowout, FAA imposed 
a cap of 38 airplanes per month on Boeing's 737 MAX production. Will 
FAA commit to NOT raising the monthly cap on 737 MAX aircraft 
production until FAA has implemented all 16 Department of 
Transportation Inspector General Recommendations in its October 9, 2024 
report, ``FAA's Oversight Processes for Identifying and Resolving 
Boeing Production Issues Are Not Effective''?
    Answer. The FAA will utilize all relevant safety data when making a 
determination regarding Boeing's production rates. Safety has no 
timeline, and the FAA will continue to hold Boeing accountable.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jacky Rosen to 
                            Chris Rocheleau
                            
    Question 1. In response to this crash, Secretary Duffy announced a 
plan to boost air traffic control hiring with 30 percent salary 
increases for newly hired controller trainees entering FAA's Air 
Traffic Control Academy.
    Mr. Rocheleau, my team has heard from our air traffic controllers 
that these increases are only temporary, and compensation resets to the 
lower level once training for new controllers is complete. Is this 
correct? And could you provide an update on the progress of this effort 
and any promising data you have seen on this front?
    Answer. Effective March 9, 2025, all current trainees enrolled in 
the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Academy's Air Traffic Control 
(ATC) entry-level training program, along with individuals enrolled on 
or after that date, received a 30 percent salary increase. This 
adjustment applies specifically to newly hired and existing ATC 
trainees during their time at the FAA Academy and raises their annual 
salary--including locality pay--to $47,763.
    Upon successful completion of academy training, these trainees--who 
are initially appointed under temporary status--are converted to 
permanent positions and assigned to an en-route or terminal facility. 
At that point, their base compensation is determined in accordance with 
the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) Collective 
Bargaining Agreement (CBA) under the Air Traffic Specialized Pay Plan 
(ATSPP).
    In all cases, upon graduation, these trainees become academy 
graduates and are paid in accordance with the CBA. The salary of an 
academy graduate is higher than what they are paid as students, though 
the exact amount varies according to locality.

    Question 2. Can you discuss the challenges in hiring process for 
air traffic controllers, any other recent changes that have been made 
to the process, and any ways you are planning to improve the process to 
hire more controllers?
    Answer. The FAA is reviewing our hiring, training, and placement 
processes, as well as academy withdrawals and failures, to ensure our 
selection methods effectively identify candidates best suited for the 
Air Traffic Control Specialist profession.
    We have identified certain challenges in the controller hiring 
process including:

   Identifying candidates who possess the necessary aptitude 
        for the position and can meet the medical requirements. In 
        recent years, over 50 percent of our ATC applicants have 
        encountered health issues, with conditions more commonly 
        associated with older adults than with the targeted age 
        demographic of 18-30 years.

   A growing number of applicants with issues that can affect 
        the processing of security clearances. For example, they may 
        not understand that Federal law is different from state law 
        regarding the use of marijuana or be unaware that financial 
        difficulties may hinder eligibility for employment or security 
        clearances.

    To enhance efficiency, we have streamlined hiring by automating 
qualification assessments, enabling applicants to progress at their own 
pace while medical and security evaluations are conducted concurrently. 
These improvements are designed to accelerate the hiring process while 
effectively identifying candidates best suited for the Air Traffic 
Control profession.
    Enhanced Air Traffic-Collegiate Training Initiative (Enhanced AT-
CTI): In April 2024, the FAA introduced Enhanced AT-CTI to create an 
additional pipeline for air traffic controllers by authorizing 
institutions to provide the same comprehensive curriculum offered at 
the FAA Academy.
                                 ______
                                 
      Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Ted Cruz to 
                    Brigadier General Matthew Braman
                    
    Question 1. Prior to our hearing where you testified, my staff was 
made aware of a memo which I understand outlines the policies and 
procedures for the Army's use of ADS-B in the National Capital Region. 
This memo was previously denied to my staff. On the day of the hearing, 
you promised to review the information and look at providing it to the 
Commerce Committee. Will you commit to immediately produce an 
unredacted copy of the memo ``ADS-B Out Off Operations in the National 
Airspace'' for the Commerce Committee staff?
    Answer. On April 2nd, 2025 the memo along with applicable 
background material was released to the HASC and SASC.

    Question 2. During the hearing, you were asked how frequently ADS-B 
Out is turned off. You committed to answering this in questions for the 
record. How frequently does the U.S. Army disable ADS-B Out during 
flights? Please specifically include data to justify your answer. If 
you choose to use a term of art to describe differing categories of 
missions or flights, please give data for those categories of flights 
as both a numerator and denominator.
    Answer. The Army's policy on utilization of Automatic Dependent 
Surveillance--Broadcast (ADS-B) Out is in accordance with the 
Memorandum of Agreement between the Department of Defense (DOD) and the 
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). The U.S. Army Aviation Brigade's 
(TAAB) previous adherence to Army policy regarding ADS-B is part of the 
Army's ongoing investigation of the January 29 accident near Reagan 
National Airport (DCA). At the conclusion of the investigation, 
releasable information will be made available to the Committee.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Jerry Moran to 
                    Brigadier General Matthew Braman
                    
    Question 1.According to the NTSB, between October 2021 and December 
2024, there were more than 15,000 instances of commercial aircraft 
coming in close proximity to helicopters. Of those events, 85 had 
vertical separation of less than 200 feet. How many of those 85 events 
involved military helicopters?
    Answer. The data used to inform the National Transportation Safety 
Board's (NTSB) preliminary report resides with the Federal Aviation 
Administration (FAA) and subsequently the NTSB. The Army has requested 
to examine the data.

    Question 1a. Please describe the process by which the Army shares 
information regarding aviation safety with the FAA. Is this 
information-sharing regime consistent across the NAS?
    Answer. The entry point for the Army is the OSD led Policy Board on 
Federal Aviation (PBFA) to address multi-Service aviation related 
issues with the FAA. Department of the Army Representatives (DAR) 
interact daily with FAA officials on a wide spectrum of aviation topics 
including: Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) airspace access; airspace 
proposals; environmental impacts; 5G impacts to aviation; and 
adjudicating pilot deviations among many other functions.
    The Army Safety Management Information System (ASMIS) database is 
the database of record for mishap, near miss, hazards, inspections, and 
safety and occupational health (SOH) management. The Army has no formal 
mechanism to share data from ASMIS with the FAA. DARs receive Mandatory 
Occurrence Reports (MOR) from the FAA's Air Traffic Organization. MORs 
record reportable events that occur in the national airspace. DARs 
process and ensure Army adjudications of any pilot deviation reported 
in the MOR. MORs are captured in FAA databases that the Army does not 
have access to. The Army is committed to supporting any effort to 
mitigate risk in the national airspace to include improving data 
sharing between the Department of Defense (DOD) and FAA.

    Question 2. The NTSB's report indicates that the PAT25 pilots 
reported discrepant altitude readings on repeated occasions in the 
leadup to the crash, but based on the NTSB's preliminary report, at no 
point were those discrepant readings reconciled. How do Army Aviation 
crews typically reconcile discrepant altitude readings? Are discrepant 
altitude readings internal to a crew standard for Army Aviation 
missions? What would typically account for discrepant altitude readings 
internal to an Army Aviation crew?
    Answer. Discrepant altitude readings internal to a crew are 
atypical for Army Aviation missions. Crews utilize the coordination 
elements, basic qualities, and objectives found in the Army Aircrew 
Coordination Training Program to effectively share tasks and 
information to resolve an unforeseen event such as diagnosing a 
potential discrepant altitude reading. The NTSB investigation has not 
yet determined the reason for the crewmembers of PAT25 stating 
different altitudes, their subsequent actions, or the actual instrument 
readings at that time.
    Discrepant altitude readings could potentially result from 
crewmembers looking at different altimeters (barometric versus radar), 
incorrect or different altimeter settings dialed into the Kollsman 
window on the two independent barometric altimeter systems in the UH-
60L, or actual maintenance faults. In addition, each barometric 
altimeter has an allowable margin of error of plus or minus 75 feet 
which is consistent with the FAA standard.

    Question 3. Do you have a standard in place for The Army Aviation 
Brigade to conduct routine maintenance and testing to determine whether 
equipment, i.e., ADS-B Out, is working?
    Answer. At the time of the hearing, there was no scheduled 
maintenance or formal inspection ADS-B Out operations. Since that time, 
the Army established testing and maintenance tracking procedures to 
ensure the functionality and use of ADS-B Out. The maintenance actions 
are codified in an Aviation Safety Action Memo (ASAM) and will be 
directed for use in a Department of the Army order.
    Monthly, the FAA sends the Program Executive Office Aviation (PEO 
AVN) a spreadsheet identifying Army aircraft with ADS-B Out 
transmission issues. PEO AVN alerts the unit of the aircraft issues for 
resolution. The process was not formalized and as a result of the 
information the NTSB and Army investigators have identified in their 
preliminary findings has driven the Army to formalize this process.

    Question 3a. Please describe that protocol.
    Answer. Scheduled maintenance takes place anytime an aircraft 
phase, preventive maintenance service, or scheduled component 
replacement is conducted.
    An unscheduled maintenance requirement occurs when an aircraft 
experiences an unexpected malfunction, premature component breakdown, 
or battle damage.
    Regarding the ASAM, units will be required to train personnel on 
the testing, functionality, and repair criteria. Units will document 
the testing and validate the serviceability of the equipment.

    Question 3b. How often does that routine maintenance testing occur?
    Answer. The ASAM release re-baselines the functionality of all ADS-
B systems. The Army is codifying a policy to validate use and function 
of the system before each flight to include internal test procedures 
and FAA ATC stations to validate transmissions.

    Question 3c. What occurs following the routine maintenance should a 
piece of equipment not be operating correctly? How is that documented 
and reported up the chain of command?
    Answer. If a piece of equipment is found to be inoperable, the 
flight crew or maintenance personnel will enter the fault into the 
Aircraft Inspection and Maintenance Record. Aircraft maintenance 
personnel will conduct troubleshooting procedures in accordance with 
the aircraft Electronic Technical Manual. Once the corrective 
maintenance is complete, the equipment will receive a Maintenance 
Operational Check or Maintenance Test Flight to confirm proper 
function.
    When aircraft equipment repair or malfunction is cause for an 
aircraft to be non-flyable, this is reported through the Daily Status 
Report to the command.

    Question 3d. Is that information reported to the Federal Aviation 
Administration?
    Answer. The Army does not report maintenance status of aircraft or 
systems to the FAA. However, Army aircraft must meet communications 
requirements to operate in the National Airspace. Army crews are not 
authorized to operate in FAA airspace if they are unable to meet the 
equipment requirements. Adherence to this requirement is within the 
scope of the concurrent NTSB and AR 15-6 investigations.
    Note: BG Braman indicated he would reply to this in the QFRs during 
the hearing.
                                 ______
                                 
Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Shelley Moore Capito to 
                    Brigadier General Matthew Braman
                    
    Question 1. Brigadier General Braman, in your testimony you 
mentioned that Night Vision goggle training is required for readiness 
in the area. By most accounts operating with these goggles in an urban 
environment means a limited sight range and washed out vision due to 
all the light.
    What are the benefits to training in a congested urban environment 
with night vision goggles?
    Answer. The Army Aviation Brigade's (TAAB) mission to provide 24-
hour responsive rotary wing support to senior government and military 
officials for continuity of government operations requires its aircrews 
to operate and train in the National Capital Region (NCR) during day 
and night hours. Flying at night at low altitudes under NVGs is the 
standard for Army Aircrews and has been validated as the principle 
method for flight operations in the National Airspace and in combat in 
urban, rural and overwater environments. All Army aviators are trained 
to operate utilizing night vision goggles for nighttime flying because 
of the exponential increase in situational awareness. Army aviators 
have the authority to remove their goggles if they deem it advantageous 
due to very high light levels or other factors when normal scanning 
techniques are not sufficient. However normal scanning techniques using 
peripheral vision with googles on is still the most effective means for 
optimal vision at night in all environments especially urban.

    Question 1a. Are night vision goggles still being used on the 
limited number of Army flights in the region?
    Answer. Yes, night vision goggles provide pilots with an unmatched 
capability to improve situational awareness for nighttime flying as 
stated above.
                                 ______
                                 
   Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Maria Cantwell to 
                    Brigadier General Matthew Braman
                    
    Question 1. Black Hawk crewmember requirements. Army Regulation 
(AR) 95-1 requires two-pilot operations as the standard for night 
vision goggle (NVG) flights, with at least one pilot being NVG-
qualified and current. In addition, a non-pilot crewmember, such as a 
crew chief, is required to be onboard to help with maintaining 
situational awareness.
    Would a requirement for a 4th crewmember have made a difference in 
promoting situational awareness for the Black Hawk's flight crew? Why 
or why not?
    Answer. Army Regulation 95-1 does not mandate minimum crewmember 
requirements specific to night vision goggle flights. The minimum 
aircrew requirement by the UH-60L Black Hawk operator manual is two 
pilots. In this instance there were three crewmembers.
    The specific circumstances that led to the accident will be 
determined by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) during 
its ongoing investigation. However, the Army has determined in the 
course of its safety investigation into the accident that PAT25's crew 
chief was seated on the left side of the aircraft, which was the same 
side American Airlines Flight 5342 approached from.

    Question 2. Should the Army consider revising its minimum crew 
requirements for Black Hawk helicopter operations like that performed 
by the 12th Army Aviation Brigade?
    Answer. The Army will review all regulations and policies and will 
take appropriate action based on the facts and recommendations of the 
ongoing investigations when complete. The minimum aircrew requirement 
by the UH-60L Black Hawk operator manual is two pilots. The unit 
commander and pilot in command determine the size of the crew based on 
factors associated with each mission, the environment, and an 
assessment of the crew. Should the NTSB determine the number of 
aircrews assigned to PAT25 to be a causal factor in the accident, the 
Army will review its minimum crew requirements for Black Hawk 
helicopter operations and take appropriate action.

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