[Senate Hearing 119-101]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-101
THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY'S
BUDGET REQUEST FOR FISCAL YEAR 2026
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
MAY 20, 2025
__________
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-722 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
RAND PAUL, Kentucky, Chairman
RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma MARGARET WOOD HASSAN, New
RICK SCOTT, Florida Hampshire
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
BERNIE MORENO, Ohio JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
JONI ERNST, Iowa ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan
William E. Henderson III, Staff Director
Christina N. Salazar, Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Andrew J. Hopkins, Counsel
Megan M. Krynen, Professional Staff Member
David M. Weinberg, Minority Staff Director
Christopher J. Mulkins, Minority Director of Homeland Security
Benjamin J. Schubert, Minority Professional Staff Member
Julian C. Trevino, Minority Research Assistant
Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
Ashley A. Gonzalez, Hearing Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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Opening statements:
Page
Senator Paul................................................. 1
Senator Peters............................................... 3
Senator Johnson.............................................. 12
Senator Hassan............................................... 14
Senator Lankford............................................. 16
Senator Blumenthal........................................... 18
Senator Moody................................................ 20
Senator Kim.................................................. 22
Senator Scott................................................ 24
Senator Slotkin.............................................. 26
Senator Hawley............................................... 28
Senator Fetterman............................................ 31
Senator Moreno............................................... 32
Senator Gallego.............................................. 34
Senator Ernst................................................ 36
Prepared statements:
Senator Paul................................................. 49
Senator Peters............................................... 52
WITNESSES
TUESDAY, MAY 20, 2025
Hon. Kristi Noem, Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Testimony.................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 55
APPENDIX
Senator Hawley's picture......................................... 63
Wall Street Journal Article...................................... 64
Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record:
Ms. Noem..................................................... 67
THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR
FISCAL YEAR 2026
----------
TUESDAY, MAY 20, 2025
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Rand Paul,
Chair of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Paul [presiding], Johnson, Lankford, Rick
Scott, Hawley, Moreno, Ernst, Moody, Peters, Hassan,
Blumenthal, Fetterman, Kim, Gallego, and Slotkin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL\1\
Chairman Paul. The Committee will come to order. I would
like to welcome back Secretary Noem to the Committee.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Senator Paul appears in the Appendix
on page 49.
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The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is a $100 billion
agency encompassing 16 different components, from the
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). It has grown into an
unwieldy bureaucracy rife with unaccountable power and wasteful
spending, characteristics all too common in large Federal
institutions.
Before your tenure, DHS had quietly expanded its scope,
using taxpayer dollars to surveil American citizens, censor
speech, and even fund high-risk virus research, all with little
to no oversight.
I commend you and the Trump administration for ending all
government-sponsored censorship using DHS personnel.
Just last night, I received the first set of records from
the Department regarding Tulsi Gabbard's placement on the TSA
Quiet Skies watch list. These documents confirm our suspicions.
Federal air marshals surveilled the now Director of National
Intelligence (DNI) during domestic flights in 2024, reporting
back information related to her appearance and even how many
electronics she was observed using.
Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case. TSA is not the
only DHS component running secretive programs behind closed
doors. Most Americans would be shocked to learn that DHS funds
both classified and unclassified biological research right here
on U.S. soil.
Under your leadership, the Department has begun producing
subpoenaed records revealing deeply concerning experiments with
biological threat agents. In one case, researchers proposed
combining elements of two weakened anthrax strains to re-
engineer a version capable of causing disease again. These are
experiments that we cannot countenance. You heard that right.
DHS was using taxpayer dollars to try to recreate a fully
virulent anthrax strain by engineering it from less dangerous
components. That sure sounds like gain of function (GoF) to me.
At the National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures
Center (NBACC), scientists have conducted repeated experiments,
aerosolizing some of the world's deadliest pathogens the
plague, Ebola, and more, exploring how to increase their
lethality and transmissibility. We have documents indicating
these experiments have continued during the Biden
administration.
NBACC's lab sits adjacent to National Institute of Health
(NIH's) Integrated Research Facility at Fort Detrick, the very
same facility where just recently Secretary Kennedy and
Director Bhattacharya halted research following a disturbing
biosafety instance in which a researcher intentionally slashed
another's biosafety suit while handling Ebola. Inexcusable.
Afterwards, DHS personnel were reportedly seen padlocking
freezers inside the NIH lab. So naturally, I want to know what
exactly is the relationship between DHS and NIH at Fort
Detrick. What overlap exists between their work?
It should not take a personal altercation and a compromised
biosafety suit to initiate oversight. But here we are.
Why is the Department of Homeland Security, an agency meant
to defend the homeland, conducting experiments with pathogens
capable of killing millions in the first place? These are
questions, and the taxpayers deserve answers.
Some might say it is about preparedness, but when does
preparedness cross in the line into recklessness? At what point
does an attempt to prevent catastrophe actually increase the
likelihood of one?
This is only the tip of the iceberg of the reckless
research quietly being funded out of the Department of Homeland
Security, some of it conducted on behalf of other Federal
agencies under the agency's ``Work for Others'' program,
obscuring the ability of Congress and the public to follow the
money.
This is not just a domestic safety concern. It is a
diplomatic one. DHS conducts internal Arms Control Compliance
Assessments to evaluate whether its projects could violate--or
appear to violate--the Biological Weapons Convention. If DHS is
engaging in high-risk virus research that could lead to a
catastrophic leak or could be perceived as U.S. violating the
Biological Weapons Convention, then the Department is not
securing the homeland. It is endangering it.
That is why Congress must pass my bipartisan Risky Research
Review Act, to establish independent oversight of federally
funded gain-of-function research and other potentially
dangerous studies.
We do not even have a universally accepted definition of
gain-of-function, allowing researchers to pick and choose the
standards that suit them. That is not real oversight.
Secretary Noem, I appreciate your demonstrated commitment
to reversing the obstruction of your predecessor and pushing
back on efforts by entrenched bureaucrats within the Department
to delay, redact, and resist oversight. You have inherited a
difficult task, restoring accountability to a department that
has strayed from its founding mission.
This is a pivotal moment. I look forward to continuing to
work with you to bring about long overdue transparency to the
American people.
Thank you, and I recognize the Ranking Member.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\
Senator Peters. Thank you, Chair Paul. Secretary Noem,
thank you for joining us today.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the
Appendix on page 52.
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The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for a
number of critical missions that safeguard our Nation, from
preventing terrorism and cyberattacks, to securing our northern
as well as southern borders, and, of course, responding to
natural disasters.
In a disappointing departure from prior administrations,
including President Trump's first administration, we are
holding today's hearing to discuss the Department's budget
needs without having received a detailed budget request from
the President, or briefings from the Department's components
about their budget needs.
However, we have seen in just a few short months under the
Trump administration, how the Department has undergone
tremendous changes. I have serious concerns that some of those
changes are harming, rather than helping, the Department in its
mission to protect the safety and the security of all
Americans.
For example, as we head into hurricane season and the
wildfire season, the Administration has halted critical FEMA
programs that support flood mitigation and slashed staff who
focus on disaster relief. These are critical resources for
States in the aftermath of a natural disaster, and the
Administration has provided little or no justification for
these changes. FEMA has even internally acknowledged that it is
not ready for hurricane season, which starts in just 11 days.
Despite that, the Administration is still planning on
shifting the burden for disaster response to State and local
governments, which will put Americans at grave risk the next
time disaster strikes, which is inevitable.
Similarly, at a time when we are facing increasing threats
from cyberattacks, the Administration plans to drastically cut
our nation's primary cybersecurity agency, Cybersecurity and
Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA). CISA is supposed to be
finalizing a rule required by law that this Committee passed to
improve cyber incident reporting to better protect our critical
infrastructure from cyberattacks, yet reporting indicates that
700 CISA employees have taken deferred resignation under
pressure from this Administration.
CISA's work on election security has stopped and the
agency's advisory committees have been shuttered. These actions
make us less prepared to address cybersecurity attacks.
The Administration also proposes cutting $247 million from
the Transportation Security Administration's budget to reduce
the number of frontline TSA agents. At a time when air travel
is at an all-time high and we are entering the busy summer
travel season, these cuts only threaten to make our skies and
flying travelers less secure.
At the same time, the Administration has also cut
congressionally mandated oversight offices that protect the
civil rights and civil liberties of individuals who interact
with DHS components. These offices were put in place to ensure
DHS personnel can conduct their important national security
missions effectively, while safeguarding the rights of the
people in this country. Shutting these offices down not only
puts Americans at risk, it also is a violation of the Homeland
Security Act itself.
Despite several inquiries to your office for more
information, I have yet to receive a sufficient explanation for
these actions.
I also have serious concerns about this Administration's
inappropriate use of the U.S. military for domestic immigration
enforcement and the outrageous use of taxpayer dollars, which I
will be asking questions about, for detention at Guantanamo
Bay. Certainly anyone concerned about prudent use of taxpayer
money should be outraged by what is happening down there.
Our nation faces a multitude of homeland security
challenges, and this Committee has always been willing to work
to address them on a bipartisan basis.
Secretary Noem, when we first met prior to your
confirmation, you gave me a commitment that you would work with
me to address the many threats facing our Nation. I hope
today's hearing will be an honest discussion about the
resources the Department needs to do just that, and I welcome
having that kind of discussion.
I would hope that we would be able to have that discussion
in a way that we have done in this Committee, in a bipartisan
way, for as long as I can remember, where our first round would
be seven minutes and then a second round would be five minutes.
Certainly, Chair Paul, I would hope you would continue the
precedent that I have always known. When Senator Johnson was
Chair of the Committee. He always made sure that everybody had
seven minutes. Certainly homeland security is a primary concern
for you, Madam Secretary, and for all of us, and I am sure why
the Chair is insisting on five minutes. I know you are fully
capable of answering for seven minutes, and should not be
concerned about it, but apparently the Chair is concerned about
that extra time.
Mr. Chair, I hope we would get seven minutes on the first
round and then five, as we always have, as long as this
Committee has been in existence.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I look forward to seven-minute
rounds.
Chairman Paul. It is the practice of the Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC) to swear in
witnesses. Secretary Noem, please stand and raise your right
hand.
Do you swear the testimony you will give before this
Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you, God?
Secretary Noem. I do.
Chairman Paul. Secretary Noem, thank you for appearing
today. As you know, I have been concerned for a long time about
gain-of-function research. I commend the President and the
Administration for having an Executive Order (EO) to stop it.
Some of the problems are in the definitions of it. Anthony
Fauci said if it is an animal virus it cannot be gain-of-
function, and yet animal viruses can be trained to infect
humans. We think that is what happened, ultimately, with
Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19).
We think some of the dangerous research is going on at the
lab controlled by DHS. Have you begun to look into this? I know
Secretary Kennedy said that you and he will be going out, and I
have requested permission to attend that, as you go out to look
at these labs. Have you looked at these labs yet to get a
feeling for what gain-of-function?
Senator Peters. Mr. Chair, are we going to have opening
comments from the Secretary, or are we skipping that, as well?
Chairman Paul. Oh, I neglected that. I went right into
questions without doing that.
Secretary Noem. It is all right. It is your Committee, Mr.
Chair.
Chairman Paul. Let's start again. Secretary Noem, you are
recognized for your remarks.
TESTIMONY OF HON. KRISTI NOEM,\1\ SECRETARY, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Secretary Noem. OK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
Ranking Member Peters for the honor of allowing me to be here
today. Thank you to all the Senators for your participation and
oversight into the Department of Homeland Security. I am
looking forward to visiting with you about all of the
accomplishments that we have been able to tackle these first
several months of this Trump administration.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Noem appears in the Appendix on
page 55.
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I am also blessed to have my husband with me today, so I
thank him for his support, and my family's support, as well, as
I fill this role for our country.
Having previously served eight years as a Member of
Congress, it is my distinct honor to be on this side of the
dais today as the Secretary of the Department of Homeland
Security. Today I am proud to discuss all of our
accomplishments since President Trump took office. High on the
list is the mandate, and was the mandate on the very first day,
to secure our Southern border and to start deporting illegal
criminal aliens.
The border crisis is the biggest problem that was facing
our country, and it was one that was imperative to fixing for
our nation's future. We are solving this crisis at a record
pace, and we have delivered the most secure border in American
history. We have obtained near-complete operational control of
the border, with daily encounters down 93 percent since
President Trump took office. Because we are fixing this biggest
challenge so quickly, President Trump can focus on other
priorities, as well, and problems that are facing the American
people.
Let's just look at the last 10 days. Last week, he signed a
historic prescription drug reduction in pricing Executive Order
that will slash prices for the American people. After that, he
went on a trip to completely rewrite America's relationship
with the Middle East. During this trip, he secured trillions of
dollars of new investments in the United States with several
Middle Eastern countries. He is also taking steps toward
rebuilding our relationship with Syria.
The last living American hostage held by Hamas, Edan
Alexander, was finally released and returned home to his
family. He announced major new trade deals with both China and
the United Kingdom (UK). Just yesterday, President Trump jump-
started cease-fire talks between Russia and Ukraine. With only
the kind of leadership that President Trump could provide, we
prevented the breakout of an all-out war between India and
Pakistan.
These historic accomplishments were possible because
President Trump confronted right away the chaos at the Southern
border. President Trump can continue to not only make America
safe, but he can also continue to work to make the entire world
safer.
Now at the Department of Homeland Security under President
Trump, we have already delivered a drastic turnaround in
homeland security, from the Southern border to our U.S. Coast
Guard (USCG) to cyberspace, and we are just getting started.
The secure border has allowed our men and women of law
enforcement at DHS to zero in on fighting cartels and their
illicit activities.
Under President Trump, we have designated six cartels and
four dangerous criminal gangs as foreign terrorist
organizations. This has allowed us to take a whole-of-
government approach to going after these murderers and these
drug traffickers. In March, fentanyl traffic at the border fell
54 percent compared to the previous year. Once again, the
United States is enforcing immigration laws to arrest,
identify, detain, and remove dangerous illegal alien criminals.
We are prioritizing those that are a public safety threat to
people, especially those who are affiliated with the terrorist
organizations MS-13 and Tren de Aragua.
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) has worked to enforce
President Trump's America First trade agenda, and the Biden
administration's trade policies that hollowed out America's
industrial base have been changed. We are no longer shipping
our jobs overseas. Instead, we are using tariffs as an
effective negotiating tool.
The Department of Homeland Security is reforming emergency
management in this country. We have the FEMA Review Council,
which will be doing the work to make recommendations and also
work with this body to change the department into something
that actually gives more local and State control, and that
first council meeting is today.
We are also taking steps to defend the nation's
transportation systems, which are vulnerable targets for
attack. The Transportation Security Administration is
responsible for ensuring all of the safety of individuals who
travel. In a single day there are 45,000 flights and nearly 2.9
million Americans and passengers in the United States.
We are also fulfilling our obligation, and did do so, to
implement Real ID, which was enacted and put in law over 20
years ago. Validated IDs secure travel, safeguard our
elections, and help make sure that we never experience another
tragedy like September 11, 2001 (9/11) again.
As technology advances, so do the threats to our Nation.
That is why cybersecurity is so crucial to our future.
Countries like Communist China have the capability and the
intent to infiltrate and to potentially disrupt our critical
infrastructure systems. Despite these threats, the Biden
administration instead used CISA to promote politics and police
speech. Under President Trump, we have been working to get CISA
back on its intended cybersecurity mission.
The Coast Guard is the only branch of the U.S. Armed Forces
(USAF) that is under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland
Security. It has many missions with specialized needs. As we
secure our Southern border, the cartels have shifted their
activities out into our maritime borders. The Coast Guard has
already surpassed fiscal year (FY) 2024's drug interdiction
numbers just since President Trump took office, and they have
also excelled at search and rescue while interdiction of
illicit substances, as well.
Still, the Coast Guard is facing our greatest readiness
crisis since World War II. We have a plan to reinvigorate this
critical component, make sure they are ready for the future.
With Force Design 2028, we will transform the Coast Guard into
a more agile, capable, and responsive force. We are making sure
that they have the resources and that they have the vision to
lead and to be the point of the spear in the future.
Now since I took office, one of the responsibilities that I
have is in reforming the U.S. Secret Service (USSS). We have
reassessed the Secret Service's needs. We have gotten
recruitment away from diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)
recruitment that the Biden administration was doing, and we are
making sure that they are equipped and ready to take on the
task of protecting our future leaders and the leaders of today.
Mr. Chair, I want to thank you and thank this Committee for
your time today in allowing me to get the facts out into these
important issues and topics that we will be discussing today
and to visit with this Committee.
I am so grateful to the men and women of the Department of
Homeland Security for all the good work they are doing to serve
the American public, their examples of bravery and patriotism
and dedication. It is our responsibility to continue to provide
for them the resources that they need to continue doing the
important work that they do.
With that, Mr. Chair, I look forward to answering your
questions, and I yield back.
Chairman Paul. Great. You got a preview of my question----
Secretary Noem. I did. That is good. That is all right.
Chairman Paul [continuing]. Since I went out of order. But
NBACC, out there by Fort Detrick, we are concerned that they
are still doing some dangerous research out there, and it needs
more oversight. Do you have any update for us on that?
Secretary Noem. I do, and I want to thank the Chair for
bringing a lot of history to my knowledge of this lab in and
the work that it was doing, and I appreciate Secretary
Kennedy's input, as well.
Yes, we do have a visit planned in the future here in the
next 10 days to 2 weeks, with Secretary Kennedy, to look into
the work that this lab is doing and if it is appropriate for
the Department of Homeland Security to be engaged in that.
I think your concerns have created some oversight that is
very helpful, and will be helpful in making sure that they are
doing correct research that actually is beneficial and not
research that has been abused in the past.
Chairman Paul. The President has banned gain-of-function,
and as you and I have discussed, it is important that someone
can simply come forward who disagrees and says, ``Well, this
doesn't meet the definition of gain-of-function.'' This is
essentially what Anthony Fauci did when everybody said the
research in Wuhan was gain-of-function. They were taking an
animal virus. They were running it through an animal model with
human lungs, over and over again, and adapting it to be
infectious in humans. That is gain-of-function.
The people and personnel make a difference. So what I would
ask is as you ask the career people out there, who have been
doing the experiments, you realize that their natural tendency
is to want to keep doing what they have been doing. I think it
is going to take scrutiny, new people, new scientists,
consultants, to look at each one of these say, ``Don't just
tell me you are not doing it. Give me a list of 20 or 30
experiments. What are you doing?''
As an example of that we have been sending records requests
for three years and we got nothing until you came into office.
I hope that you will be looking at our records requests. They
are all dated and timed, some of them by five Republicans, some
of them by Republicans and Democrats, and they were just
routinely ignored.
Have you had a chance to look at the chain of questioning
here to see if there is anybody that was actually purposely
obstructing us?
Secretary Noem. Yes. I thank you for asking those questions
and talking about the follow-up to Members of Congress,
Senators and Representatives. My predecessor did not respond to
anybody. It did not matter if you were a Republican or a
Democrat, he did not respond to your letters and your
oversight. I have tasked all of my people with changing that
about our Department of Homeland Security, that we will be
responsive to Congress.
We have given you about 50,000 pages, I think, so far of
information. We continue to get and gather more data and facts
that we can return to you, so you can conduct oversight.
What I would say is between NIH and the Department of
Homeland Security there are no research projects ongoing right
now today or that we have been able to find as far as projects
they were doing together. We did have a couple of employees
that were contracted for their specialty backgrounds that have
done work over at NIH before. But that kind of oversight needs
to happen, and I think it is important that we have an
independent, outside source that also is reviewing the work
that they do.
Chairman Paul. As you are collecting the records, I would
just ask that you ask the people why wasn't it given before and
see if you can find where the chain of command ended. Were
there people purposely not giving us the records, because they
really should not be employed by government.
Secretary Mayorkas told us repeatedly that there was no
censorship going on, CISA was not doing anything, they were not
involved with speech. We know from the Twitter files they were.
Have you uncovered any internal communications or activities
that contradict their technology with regard to the government
being involved in censorship?
Secretary Noem. Yes, sir, we have literally found thousands
of documents that have proven that they were involved in
censorship and policing speech. We will be unveiling these to
this Committee and making sure we are exposing what CISA was
doing with a vast majority of its time of certain employees.
Some of the discussion I think we will have here today is about
getting CISA back on mission and some of the reductions in
staff that have been over there, and that is reflective in the
fact that many of them were doing work that they should not
have been doing.
Chairman Paul. I hope you will look at our bill, the Risky
Research Review Act. Administrations do a lot of things, and a
lot of good things, and then they go away when the next
administration comes in. The good thing about this legislation,
it would be a Presidential commission of scientists to define,
on a continual basis, what is or is not gain-of-function, to
rule on that. It has been voted in a bipartisan way. It was a
unanimous vote out of this Committee. It is one of the few
things in Congress we actually, I think, have bipartisan
support for.
So we hope the Administration will look at that and
considering making a public endorsement of that. That way we
can make permanent the things you are trying to do to constrain
gain-of-function.
Thank you for your testimony, and with that I recognize
Senator Peters.
Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Secretary Noem, thank
you for being here again before the Committee today. I also
appreciated the time we spent yesterday morning on the phone
discussing a variety of issues, and I look forward to those
kinds of discussions continuing in the future.
As you know the protections for sharing information under
the Community Information Sharing Act of 2015, confusingly
referred to as CISA of 2015, but it deals with the information
sharing, expires at the end of September. This is a critical
authority that applies to information sharing across the
Federal Government, not only to CISA, the agency, but it also
allows the agency the ability to have robust and timely cyber
threat information shared between public and private sectors as
well as among private sector companies, so folks have an
understanding of the threat landscape that is out there and
have full awareness of what is coming at them by nefarious
actors.
Does the Administration support the extension of this
incredibly important authority that I have been hearing about
from a number of stakeholders that they are very concerned it
is going to expire. Does the Administration support the
extension?
Secretary Noem. Yes, we do. Thank you, Senator Peters. It
is very important piece of legislation, that does entend it for
10 more years, which I think is a long enough timeframe for us
to really make sure that we have the stability we need in this
area to create those kinds of partnerships you were talking
about with private industry.
We need their expertise and their knowledge and their
interaction with those across the world that hate the United
States of America (USA) to come in and cooperate with us, to
make sure we are prepared to secure our systems and our
critical infrastructure.
Senator Peters. Great. I look forward to your support and
the Administration's support so we can pass this extension, the
10-year extension, before it expires. You are absolutely right
how critical it is.
Secretary Noem, I am also concerned about the increasing
number of security threats that we are seeing from drone
incursions to public spaces, to airports, critical
infrastructure sites all across our country, as we spoke about
yesterday morning. Just last week, a man in Michigan was
arrested after he allegedly tried to attack the U.S. Army's
Tank Automotive and Armaments Command Facility at the Detroit
Arsenal in Warren. According to prosecutors, the man flew a
drone over the facility to conduct operational reconnaissance,
further highlighting the need to ensure that law enforcement is
properly resourced to deal with this growing threat.
While I understand that there are safety concerns with the
technology, that need to be addressed by the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA), I would like for all of us to work
together to reauthorized DHS and Department of Justice (DOJ's)
counter-drone authorities that also expire at the end of
September, because this threat, as you know, is not going away.
Last Congress, Senator Johnson and I introduced a bill, S. 1631
Safeguarding the Homeland from the Threats Posted by Unmanned
Aircraft Systems Act of 2023 that I think is a good starting
point.
My question for you, Secretary Noem, is can I get your
commitment that we can work together to not only reauthorize
these authorities on a long-term basis but actually strengthen
those authorities to make sure we deal with this persistent
threat?
Secretary Noem. Yes, Senator Peters. I will take a look at
your legislation specifically. But we do need to reauthorize
the authorities that we do have in order to address not just
our homeland security day-to-day activities, but we are hosting
some very large events in this country that will, I think,
challenge our ability to secure that many large events at one
time. So having those kinds of authorities and addressing what
we can do to cooperate with States and local governments and
cities in locations where big events happen would be very
important to do that.
So you are right. The expansion of those authorities needs
to be looked at, to make sure it is appropriate, but also gives
us the tools we need to keep people safe. We have the Club Cup
coming this summer, the World Cup next summer, which will be 10
million ticketed people, 22 million people that will be
involved in the activities surrounding it, the Olympics coming.
It is important we address this now so we can be proactive.
Senator Peters. Yes, absolutely. I appreciate that. Senator
Johnson and I would appreciate it. Our biggest supporter for
our bill is actually the National Football League (NFL), who
have real concerns about their games. We have already had games
interrupted, and it could be more serious at some point.
Secretary Noem, two weeks ago, during a Senate
Appropriations hearing, you told me, very clearly, to question
that I had, that CISA was, quote, ``back on mission,'' end of
mission. If this is accurate, my question is why is the
Administration proposing to cut $500 million from an agency's
budget, an agency that is ``on mission'' right now, when those
activities you previously described as off-mission,
specifically election security work, cost about $20 million.
Those folks have been let go. They are no longer there. I can
understand a cut of $20 million, but this is a cut of $500
million.
If you could tell this Committee, what specific activities
or departments at CISA does the Department plan to cut as a
result of these very large, proposed cuts, and if you could
please give some specific examples of offices and programs. As
you know, the CISA statutory requirements are extensive. You
have a lot on your plate. You have a lot to cover. You need to
have resources to do that. But this is a pretty significant cut
in funding, and we need to know exactly what protection will
not be offered after these cuts go into effect.
Secretary Noem. Yes, we will continue to fulfill all the
statutory requirements that the Department of Homeland Security
has and has given to CISA in the work that it does. Putting it
back on mission means that it fulfills the responsibility of
why it was created, and that is to be the cybersecurity agency
of the Nation, to go out and secure our critical
infrastructure, work with small and medium-sized businesses and
States and localities to give them the insight and wisdom they
need to make sure that they are not vulnerable to hackers or
nefarious activity.
Getting rid of censorship, getting rid of the Ministry of
Truth at CISA, the employees that were duplicative, that were
fulfilling roles that were not related to cybersecurity was
something that we addressed. I would say under the President's
budget, cybersecurity has only strengthened, and we are
doubling down on the need to build private and partner with
those individual industries that have the expertise and
knowledge that we lacked for so long.
They are looking for some more abilities to do new things
for this country as far as giving us insight into nefarious
activities. But they do ask that we give them some level of
protection from liabilities. I think you are very familiar with
some of their concerns. I want to work with you to see what we
can do to address those needs so that we can have the
information we need to really, truly secure the country.
One of the biggest, alarming things--and I think I visited
with you about this before--was that we still do not
necessarily know how to stop the next Salt Typhoon, Volt
Typhoon. Private industry can help us with that with their
knowledge. They see things that we don't, and that partnership
could be strong and make sure that we are not just spending
more dollars with no means to an end, that we actually have an
end that ends with a more secure United States of America.
Senator Peters. I look forward to working with you. Thank
you.
Chairman Paul. Senator Johnson.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON
Senator Johnson Madam Secretary welcome. Thank you for your
service. I think you have probably seen this chart. For the
first time I have brought this chart and it is showing good
news. For the previous four years, it described a disaster, a
catastrophe, a clear and present danger to this country. One of
the reasons I want to put it up here is to point out how we
were lied to, during that entire four-year period, by the
administration, reinforced by our colleagues on the other side
of the aisle, saying we had to have Congress act. You know, we
needed legislation. The fact of the matter is, no, we just
needed a new President. We needed President Trump.
Now, I would have been happy to pass a bill to reinforce
President Biden's authorities to secure the border, but he did
not want to.
I think what is clear about this chart, you can see when
President Biden was considering reelection, he realized the
catastrophe at hand was becoming politically unpopular. So he
used the executive authority that President Trump had used to
secure the border in his first term, and he started actually
making progress on that.
Again, it is just important that the American people
understand that for four years the Biden administration,
reinforced by the folks on the other side of the aisle, lied,
bold-faced, that President Biden did not have the authority to
secure the border. He wanted an open border. That is exactly
what he got.
Now, the question I have for you off this chart is, in his
first term, it took President Trump about 12 months to go from
his peak of almost 5,000 encounters per day to a little over
500. You know, Remain in Mexico, the agreements he had with the
third countries, that type of thing.
How could he do it so swiftly this time? This is literally
a matter of months. In February there were 418 encounters per
day, on average. In March it was 355. This is stunning success.
I just kind of want to get your reaction in terms of how he
accomplished it and how you guys accomplished this.
Secretary Noem. I would say, Senator, that the President
used not only the laws that were already on the books and
started enforcing them. He also made sure that he talked about
it and messaged it. Throughout the campaign he talked about the
need for a secure border.
What we need to remember, constantly, in this country is
that the world listens to everything that we say and what our
leaders say. He told me specifically when he nominated me for
this position, ``I don't want you just to go and run the
Department of Homeland Security, secure the border, and make
sure that our agencies are back on mission. I want you to tell
the world what we are doing.'' Because the only way they are
going to stop coming to this country is if they know never to
leave their home country. If they know that we are enforcing
laws they will stop coming.
And that is exactly what is happening. Because of our
messaging, because of of the fact that we have actively talked,
in Guatemala, in Honduras, in Mexico, about, ``Don't come to
the United States anymore illegally. There will be
consequences,'' they have stayed there. In fact, we are showing
now in the Darien Gap that it is reverse migration, that people
that got to Mexico, never even made it to the border, now they
are turning around and going back home.
When I was in Mexico visiting with the President there and
with government leaders, she said, specifically, they think
there could be 500,000 to 600,000 people that just stopped in
Mexico, that turned around, that were never even countered that
reached our border.
I think that is why in March you saw less than 200
encounters a day, and it was a historic low for this country in
encounters, and it was because not only did he enforce the law
and show there would be consequences if you broke our laws,
which is what our country was built on.
He also made sure that we talked to the American people
about why we were doing it, that it was for our safety and for
our future, and that also, to these other countries, that it
was no longer going to be the status quo of Joe Biden.
Senator Johnson. Of course, that is a sea change. The Biden
administration welcomed, I mean, they encouraged incentivized
people to come here.
Secretary Noem. Correct.
Senator Johnson. So this is a budget hearing. I do want to
ask, in the first Trump administration I have best information
we built something like 458 miles of walls, cost about $6.6
billion, about $14 million per mile. Your budgetary request
right now is for $46.5 billion, a lot more. That would, at the
same price, building something more than 3,000 miles. So can
you kind of square that circle, or circle that square,
whatever? Can you explain exactly what are you asking for in
that $46.5 billion? Why is the request so high when we were
able to build so many miles in the first term for a lot less?
Secretary Noem. Today the estimates are that building steel
bollard wall will be over $12 million a mile, is what they are
estimating. We have built about 70 miles of wall since the
President has been in office, but that has been a mixture of
permanent steel versus temporary versus a little bit of buoy
barrier, where it is appropriate, that are waterborne.
Senator Johnson. Again, the $12 million is less than the
$14 million I had calculated. That would be way more than 3,000
miles. Are you really planning on building 3,000 miles?
Secretary Noem. The problem that we have at the border
right now is that we have CBP cameras and towers that do not
work. We have some authorities there with the FAA on
infrastructure that helps us do surveillance of areas where
there is not a wall, that is not even operational. I would say
one out of three actually are functioning today, which makes
the individuals that are there work even harder.
We talk about gotaways and what happens today. The truth is
that there are portions of this border that we still do not
necessarily know what happens there 24/7.
Senator Johnson. We are $37 trillion in debt. I am just
going to ask that you and the Department sharpen your pencil on
that wall request. I think it is more than you need. Again, I
am happy to provide the support you need to secure the border,
do the deportations, but we need to be very concerned about how
much we are spending, and it needs to all be justified.
Secretary Noem. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Senator Hassan.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HASSAN
Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Madam
Secretary. Secretary Noem, the White House Deputy Chief of
Staff recently said that the Trump administration is actively
looking at suspending habeas corpus. Last week you were asked
about this, and I want to clarify your position because it is
obviously really important to get this right.
So Secretary Noem, what is habeas corpus?
Secretary Noem. Habeas corpus is a constitutional right
that the President has to be able to remove people from this
country----
Senator Hassan. No----
Secretary Noem [continuing]. to suspend their right to----
Senator Hassan. No, let me stop you, ma'am. Excuse me. That
is incorrect.
Secretary Noem. President Lincoln used it.
Senator Hassan. Excuse me. Habeas corpus is the legal
principle that requires that the government provide a public
reason for detaining and imprisoning people. If not for that
protection, the government could simply arrest people,
including American citizens, and hold them indefinitely for no
reason.
Habeas corpus is the foundational right that separates free
societies like America from police States like North Korea. As
a Senator from the Live Free or Die State, this matters a lot
to me and my constituents, and to all Americans.
Secretary Noem, do you support the core protection that
habeas corpus provides, that the government must provide a
public reason in order to detain and imprison someone?
Secretary Noem. I support habeas corpus. I also recognize
that the President of the United States has the authority under
the Constitution to decide if it should be suspended or not.
Senator Hassan. It has never been done without approval of
Congress. Even Abraham Lincoln got retroactive approval from
Congress.
Let us be clear. I have been asking Executive Branch
nominees a simple question over the past few months. If the
President orders them to break the law, I have been asking will
you follow the law or follow the order? I want to ask you a
more specific question here. If the President tries to suspend
habeas corpus and a Federal court reverses the President's
order, will you comply with the court order and uphold habeas
corpus or will you follow the President's direction?
Secretary Noem. We are following all Federal court orders
and are complying with that, as is the President and every
decision I make, as well.
Senator Hassan. Well, that is obviously not true for
anybody who reads the news. There are Federal court orders
right now, including returning somebody who was deported
mistakenly.
But to be clear, this is about a fundamental legal right
that ensures that we live in a free society instead of a police
State that would have a sham legal system like Russia or North
Korea.
I am glad that you have now committed to following court
orders. I am glad you believe in the basic freedom for
Americans if ordered to do so by a court. Again, I want just to
make clear that it is critically important that even if the
President tries to suspend the right of people to know why they
have been detained or imprisoned, if a Federal court reverses
that order that you will follow that order, and I hope all the
members of the Administration will. Because it is obviously
critical that some of the people, for instance, who have been
deported by mistake, who did not get due process, be returned
in compliance with court orders.
So now let's move on to another issue. International
criminal organizations target Americans with sophisticated
cybercrime, including elaborate scams that robbed Americans of
billions of dollars, with seniors in the United States losing
$5 billion to scammers in 2024 alone. As artificial
intelligence (AI) improves so does the ability of criminals to
deceive and defraud Americans. With this new technology,
criminals can impersonate loved ones, develop advanced malware,
or make more convincing phishing messages.
How is DHS working to identify trends in illegal activity
and ensure that new AI systems have safeguards in place to
prevent their use in criminal activity?
Secretary Noem. Yes. We are working extensively through
CISA but in all of our agencies to make sure that we are going
after these criminal nefarious active. I would say partnering
with private industry is critically important so that we have
the insight that we need to really understand the tactics that
they use and the advancements in software.
The AI ability that they have to adjust and to supersede
some of our systems is incredible. So investing in those
systems is important, but also having the knowledge of bringing
everybody to the table and breaking down the silos between our
agencies and our intelligence agencies is important, so we all
have the information that we need together.
Senator Hassan. That gets me to one final point and
question here, because Senator Peters began to ask about it.
There has been recent reporting that indicates that the Chinese
government installed remote access to Chinese-made power
inverters in the United States, raising concerns that the
Chinese government could try to disable parts of our power
grid. And you made a comment following up on Senator Peters'
question about the importance of not only working with private
industry on this issue, as you would also want to work on AI,
but also on working with State and local governments on
cybersecurity.
Can you just talk to me a little bit about how DHS is
partnering with State and local governments right now on cyber?
Secretary Noem. Well, that is one of the core critical
missions of CISA is to help those State and local governments
harden their systems. We are extremely vulnerable by our
weakest link. When you have a small State that does not have
the resources it needs to invest in these security operations,
then they are vulnerable to attacks and hacking attempts, and
they can access our systems if they have a contract or a system
that interfaces with the Federal system, it makes us
vulnerable, as well.
So we are responsible for 10 of the 16 critical
infrastructures under the Department of Homeland Security and
making sure that China cannot come in and shut down our
electrical grid, our water systems, things that people rely on
every day for their day-to-day lives is very important. So that
is why we need these kinds of partnerships is to make sure that
we are secure all the way down to our smallest actor that
participates.
Senator Hassan. I appreciate that and I appreciate working
more with you on that. Thank you.
Secretary Noem. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Senator Lankford.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD
Senator Lankford. Secretary Noem, good to see you again.
Thanks for your leadership and the work that you have already
done, and there is a lot more still to do, but you all had a
pretty remarkable start in the process, and I am very grateful.
For four years, every single hearing we ever had with any DHS
official was dominated by border--close it, close it, close it,
close it--and excuses why they could't, couldn't, couldn't,
couldn't. It is kind of fun for me, actually, to be able to sit
here and hear conversations about FEMA, about Coast Guard,
about all the other aspects of DHS that are out there, Secret
Service, when all we had time to talk about was about border in
the previous time.
I had my team pull together just the March numbers for the
last four years of border crossings and what happened. If we go
back to March 2022, 222,000; 2023, 193,000; 2024, 189,000; and
then this last March, 11,000. And to be able to see the
dramatic difference that has happened in a very short period of
time, and the enforcement that has actually happened, it has
given a deep breath to the Nation. It has also given an
opportunity for the folks at the border to catch up.
I was in San Diego a couple of weeks ago, meeting with the
Border Patrol folks, CBP, and Coast Guard there in San Diego
and their enforcement around the Tijuana border, and to be able
to see what is happening, and the morale there is just
dramatically different, from the times that I have been there
in the past.
You had mentioned Coast Guard, as well, and I want to be
able to just highlight that, and then I have a whole bunch of
other questions I want to go through. But I just wanted to say
thank you to you and your team for the work that has been done.
Coast Guard folks are getting an additional pressure point
there. Folks are getting on jet skis and panga boats and coming
around. Coast Guard is not only saving lives, as we have seen
in the past couple of weeks even, about some of these panga
boats that are coming in, that are capsizing out there. Coast
Guard is rescuing and actually removing folks at the same time,
in the process.
They have to have additional cameras. The different radar
systems. They need additional people that are there. I saw some
of the Department of Defense (DOD) personnel that are working
alongside the Coast Guard folks to be able to assist them, from
other agencies of DOD. They need additional folks there.
One of the questions I wanted to ask you was about Coast
Guard. In the plan you mentioned that, about additional assets.
But there are radars, cameras, other things, including
personnel, that they are going to need help on.
Secretary Noem. Yes. I would say the Coast Guard, its
mission set is pretty expansive, and most of the time they are
not only just doing search and rescue. They are out there doing
interdiction on the water. They are also participating with the
Navy in securing projects and missions worldwide. Their cutters
move faster and help work securing our warships and our
aircraft carriers, and it is incredibly important the work that
they do.
We are grateful for that, but we also recognize that they
have been neglected for years. They have got cutters that have
been delayed. We are outmanned by Russia and China every day in
the Arctic region, in the Indo-Pacific region, as well. We need
more assets. But down on the border, specifically, you talked
about the fact that these cartels are using faster boats with
faster engines and jet skis to outmaneuver the Coast Guard, and
that is how they are penetrating into the country and
proliferating their drug use and human trafficking.
We are going to continue to get them the assets they need.
They need airframe. They have several that have been grounded
because they cannot even be maintained anymore. They need
cutters, but they also need Counter-Unmanned Aircraft Systems
(C-UAS) technology. Every cutter could use that. They see
drones every day out there on the waters, and in the work that
they do they do that they cannot find out why they are hovering
over their mission set, what they are doing, if they are
weaponized, and then use that to protect our country.
They also need satellite technology. The need new software
systems, and to be able to interact with law enforcement. Their
communications, I talked to one Coastie when I was out spending
time with them on the front line, and thank you for spending
time with them, by the way, because that does not just mean the
world to them. I think you learn in a different way truly what
their needs are.
One was carrying around two radios that probably weighed
five to seven pounds each. I said, ``Why are you carrying two
radios?'' He said, ``Well, this one is an old one that does not
really work, but this one is even older than that, that does
not have some of the channels this one has. But I have to carry
two of them to cover all my basis. I wish we could get the
newer one. Then I could put both of these down, and it weighs
half as much.''
So this guy is walking around with his belt filled with not
only all of his other equipment but also these radios, and it
is that we cannot afford to buy him a new radio, that was
already released 5 to 10 years ago, but we have not upgraded
for these individuals.
Some of that stuff could be addressed and is very important
for us to do so.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. Thanks for paying attention to
that, as well. That is going to be vital for us in the days
ahead.
Just a quick comment on a couple of things. Our team has
reached out to your team. There were a lot of things that the
previous administration would never turn over to us. We are
doing some investigations to try to get data, for instance, on
the Parole Plus programs that were done. We could never get any
data on that. We are trying to figure out where are those
people, what actually happened to all of them. So we would like
to be able to get some of that information.
We have several pending requests with your team, just to be
able to get those things. The other thing is, on the FEMA
grants, based on the tornadoes and the storms that have come
through much of the Midwest, including States like Kentucky and
Oklahoma of late, some of the building resilience
infrastructure in communities, some of those grants there is a
hold on, and we are just trying to be able to figure out the
future of that. So just some additional information would help
our communities to be able to prepare, as well.
Mr. Chair, thank you.
Secretary Noem. Absolutely.
Chairman Paul. Senator Blumenthal.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BLUMENTHAL
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for
being here, Madam Secretary. I am sure you have seen the recent
reports that your agency is going to sponsor a reality show, a
TV show, in which immigrants would compete for U.S.
citizenship. Is DHS seriously vetting a reality show for
immigrants to obtain U.S. citizenship? Your spokesperson is
quoted in The Wall Street Journal, and I am going to ask that
article be in the record,\1\ Mr. Chair, if there no objection.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The article referenced by Senator Blumenthal appears in the
Appendix on page 64.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chairman Paul. Without objection.
Senator Blumenthal Ssaying that, quote, ``It is in the very
beginning stages of that vetting process. Each proposal
undergoes a thorough vetting process prior to denial or
approval.''
Secretary Noem. Sir, we have no knowledge of a reality
show. There may have been something submitted to the
Department, but I did not know anything about this reality
show----
Senator Blumenthal. So you confirm that you are not
considering it.
Secretary Noem [continuing]. Until the reporter reached
out. We told him we have no knowledge of it. We do not know
what he is talking about, and they still printed wrong
information.
Senator Blumenthal. Your spokesperson said----
Secretary Noem. So that article, in fact they had to change
it later because they lied so bad and they had us on the record
saying I had no knowledge of a reality show, the Department did
not. There may have been something submitted somewhere along
the line, because there are proposals pitched to the
Department. But me and my executive team have no knowledge of a
reality show and it is not under consideration.
Senator Blumenthal. I hope that your response is to confirm
that you will not do a reality show.
Secretary Noem. There are no plans whatsoever to do a
reality show.
Senator Blumenthal. And that your spokesperson was
completely misquoted as saying that it was being vetted at the
time.
Secretary Noem. That article was completely inaccurate and
false. The fact that they printed it when they knew it was
false it was a dereliction of their work.
Senator Blumenthal. Let me go to some of the expenditures
that your Department is making, $200 million for an ad campaign
fawning over President Trump's supposed accomplishments; $21
million between January and April for transporting around 400
immigrants to Guantanamo Bay--about half of them were flown
back to the United States; $6 million to El Salvador to
imprison 300 individuals in a prison known for grave human
rights violations; and many more, including $1,000 to
immigrants wishing to self-deport. I understand one of the
planes left within the last 24 hours.
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal. None of these expenditures are in your
present budget. Aren't you going to run out of money before the
end of this fiscal year? The continuing resolution (CR) does
not cover any of them.
Secretary Noem. No, all the dollars being spent are being
utilized as authorized, and appropriately for the situation.
Senator Blumenthal. Well, none of them have been
authorized----
Secretary Noem. And that flight that left yesterday----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. So under the continuing
resolution, or any other way that we normally authorize monies,
you are just spending recklessly, and it would seem wastefully,
without authorization. That is against the law.
Secretary Noem. Senator, I completely disagree with you. I
am doing the job that the Secretary of Homeland Security is
supposed to be doing, the one that the last Secretary refused
to do, that endangered the future of our country.
Senator Blumenthal. You may think you are doing the job----
Secretary Noem. What I am doing is making sure we are
enforcing our laws----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. But you operate under----
Secretary Noem [continuing]. And that people who are here
that are criminal, illegal aliens----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. Authorization that this
Committee provides.
Secretary Noem [continuing]. Are returned home.
Senator Blumenthal. You think you are doing your job, but
you also have a responsibility----
Secretary Noem. The American people told us to do this job.
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. To follow the law.
Secretary Noem. The American people overwhelmingly, in the
last election, said, ``We want a secure border. We want to make
sure that no longer----
Senator Blumenthal. They did not tell you----
Secretary Noem [continuing]. ``Are the scales of justice
tipped in the favor of criminals.''
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. To act outside your legal
authority and spend money that is not in your budget,
authorized by this Congress----
Secretary Noem. The money is being spent according to how
it is authorized appropriately.
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. Or any other Congress. Let
me ask you about the money that is being used to supposedly
repatriate Afghan allies, refugees to this country from the
Taliban, Ukrainians who have fled here from Russian aggression.
Can you confirm that money is being taken from the foreign aid
allocation?
Secretary Noem. Are you talking about the Temporary
Protective Status (TPS) Program?
Senator Blumenthal. Correct.
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal. The repatriation supposedly of those
individuals here under the Temporary Protective Status Program.
Secretary Noem. Yes. So we do have thousands of individuals
that are here that have been participating in the TPS Program.
That has been reevaluated to see if that program is still being
utilized the way that it is supposed to be, as intended by
Congress when it was laid out.
Senator Blumenthal. But there are documents that have been
publicly reported that say the Administration is going to use
money from the Foreign Aid Program, AID, to send those people
back to countries where they will be persecuted, tortured and
perhaps killed.
Secretary Noem. We are encouraging----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. That the Afghan allies
would be--let me finish my question, ma'am.
Secretary Noem. Sure.
Senator Blumenthal. Where they will be potentially killed,
tortured, Afghan allies who served us during our wars there,
saved lives of American soldiers and diplomats, are going to be
sent back to the Taliban using foreign aid money. Can you
confirm that is the plan that has been reported in The
Washington Post this morning?
Secretary Noem. No, I will not confirm that because that is
not true. Those individuals have an opportunity to apply for
asylum and other programs where they will be protected if their
lives are in danger from the government that is in their
country.
Senator Blumenthal. There is a plan to send back anyone who
can't----
Chairman Paul. The time has expired. Senator Moody.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MOODY
Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome. Thank you
for being here.
Secretary Noem. Thank you.
Senator Moody. I think I can speak for everyone in this
room and everyone in this country that you are a welcome
addition as the head of DHS. In fact, you heard time and time
again, from everybody that has been questioning you, they
sought repeatedly documents from that agency. I litigated, as
Florida's Attorney General (AG), against DHS and Secretary
Mayorkas, and sought documents. As part of that--and I hate
that it took litigation to uncover what I believe was the most
destructive cover-up in our nation's history.
But I uncovered plans by DHS when the border was overrun to
just step back and let everybody come in and facilitate that,
plans to push quotas into the interior daily, plans to build
illegal programs to bring more and more people directly here
from out of our country here, plans to illegally release people
into the United States that had been brought here for
prosecution, solely for prosecution for drug crimes from
outside our country, and when they finished their decades-long
prison sentence as drug traffickers, instead of historically as
they would have been deported they put them back into the
community in which they were prosecuted and released them.
The premeditated calculation that went into destroying our
borders and pushing barely vetted, oftentimes dangerous people
into this Nation, I believe was something that we will look
back on as a nation and say that was the moment, as a country,
we stopped taking seriously protecting the sovereignty of our
Nation, our security, and making sure, first and foremost, we
were keeping an eye on the plans of our enemies and the
weaknesses that we had as a country.
I cannot thank you enough for stepping up and coming back
to work, coming to D.C., having been home in your State, coming
back to the swamp to try and reverse the damage that was done.
In fact, we have been talking a lot about cover-ups and things
that were kept from the American people in the last
administration. Your predecessor sat here and testified to
Congress, time and time again, while I was busy litigating as
an AG, uncovering the real plans, ``The border is secure. The
border is secure. The border is secure.'' Time and time again
he lied.
In terms of someone that needs to be held accountable for
perjuring themselves, it is not just about not providing
information. It is about lying to the American people, as he
systematically made our country weaker and put their lives and
their families in danger. I think that is abhorrent. I cannot
believe a person was allowed to be trusted with the
responsibility he was given, and I am so glad that you are
willing to be here and take questions and provide documents
about that.
The Coast Guard is one of the things I think you said in
your testimony, it has been neglected for years. Our service is
out-manned. We need cutters. I can tell you, in Florida, under
the last administration, we kept seeing people, many times
criminals, coming to our shores. We are a maritime border,
obviously. We had to surge resources. Thankfully, President
Trump came in on day one and asked that we do that so we were
able to surge resources there.
But I just wanted to give you some sort of example. In the
last year we saw 13,500 illegal aliens stopped from entering
Florida, almost 700 vessels that we kept from coming onto
shore. It is so important that we get the Coast Guard cutters,
get those ships built, ramp up assets. Thank you for that
commitment. I am concerned that we might, and trying to do
that.
Quickly, much needed, that we give foreign nations or
companies outside the United States contracts. Do I have your
word you will look at how we can readily increase our Coast
Guard assets, like our Coast Guard cutters, but using American
businesses?
Secretary Noem. Absolutely. That is one of the things that
Force Design 2028 focuses on, is making sure that we are
building those kinds of partnership to meet the needs that the
Coast Guard has. I would say our greatest asset is our people.
I am so thrilled with the fact that Coast Guard recruitment is
at 108 percent of its recruitment goal, just because of the
excitement to serve in a fleet that gets to do its mission
again, and recognizes that it has been neglected for too long.
But there is a focus and a recognition of the important work
that they do.
Senator Moody. And certainly Florida has participated a lot
with partnering not only with Texas, at our Southern border--we
sent assets there--but we are ramping up our own assets to
complement what was not provided to us in the last
administration. Thank you for your dedication to making sure
that is provided to us so we can secure our own maritime
border. I appreciate that.
Secretary Noem. Absolutely. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Perfect five minutes. Thank you. Senator
Kim.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR KIM
Senator Kim. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Madam Secretary. A press
release came out from the Department of Homeland Security a
couple of days ago. It said that Members of Congress in New
Jersey that went to the Delaney Hall U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement (ICE) Detention Facility, quote, ``could
have just scheduled a tour.'' I guess I would just like to hear
from you, if you can confirm that you understand that Members
of Congress, by law, are allowed to show up unannounced to
conduct oversight visits of ICE detention facilities.
Secretary Noem. Yes. They can conduct oversight, but
Senator, what I would ask is that they understand that that
does not mean they can show up with a mob, with the intention
to break in and assault law enforcement officers. That is what
happened at Delaney Hall last week.
Senator Kim. You are familiar with----
Secretary Noem. Those individuals and those Members of
Congress were surrounded by criminals, creating criminal and
perpetuating criminal acts.
Senator Kim. You understand that they were already within
the facility.
Secretary Noem. When you show up and ask for a tour we
facilitated every single tour that every Member of Congress has
wanted. We have always done that. And we have to, when we have
a tour, also make sure that we have addressed security concerns
and have enough staff and all of that, and we were
accommodating that when those individuals showed up, and they
decided instead to break in.
Senator Kim. You know that they were already on the ICE
premise, already facilitating into having the tour, when they
arrested the mayor. They were not breaking into----
Secretary Noem. They had broken through the outer fence,
and they were in the interior, on Federal property, when a
crime was committed.
Senator Kim. They were invited in by ICE, as ICE was
preparing to give them a tour.
Secretary Noem. That does not give them an excuse to start
punching law enforcement officers.
Senator Kim. But you understand that they were not storming
the fence.
Secretary Noem. Well, I do not understand. Are you making
excuses for their behavior that day?
Senator Kim. I am just trying to clarify what exactly
happened.
Secretary Noem. Oversight is an important part of what
Congress does and what you provide to our Department, and we
welcome it. We give tours when Members of Congress ask for it.
We just ask that they not be politicized, that they actually
are there to provide the oversight that is needed to ensure
that we are doing due diligence in our job.
Senator Kim. If I were to show up at an ICE detention
facility unannounced, I would be let in.
Secretary Noem. Yes. I would ask that you would allow us to
secure the officers that we need to give you an appropriate
tour, that we would be able to cover the other bases and posts
that they would have to leave to come and facilitate that. We
may have to call other people in to help cover, because of the
extra responsibilities, but we can do that.
Senator Kim. I have done this before. I just wanted to make
sure I heard that from you.
I wanted to just go back to something that was raised
earlier about habeas corpus. Can you confirm to us that you
understand that any suspension of habeas corpus requires an act
of Congress?
Secretary Noem. President Lincoln executed habeas corpus in
the past, with retroactive action by Congress. I believe that
any President that was able to do that in the past, it should
be afforded to our current-day President. This President has
never said he is going to do this. He has never communicated to
me or his Administration that they are going to consider
suspending habeas corpus. But I do think the Constitution
allows them the right to consider it.
Senator Kim. How many times has habeas corpus been
suspended in our country?
Secretary Noem. Once that I know of.
Senator Kim. Four times.
Secretary Noem. I am not certain if those----
Senator Kim. The instance that you are referring to is one
where the court subsequently showed that Congress is the one
that has the ability. Do you know what section of the
Constitution the suspension clause of habeas corpus is in?
Secretary Noem. I do not, no.
Senator Kim. Do you know which article it is in?
Secretary Noem. No, I do not, sir.
Senator Kim. Article I. Do you know which branch of
government Article I outlines the tasks and the
responsibilities for?
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Senator Kim. Which one?
Secretary Noem. Congress.
Senator Kim. Yes. Stephen Miller has said that he is
actively considering that there is active consideration of
habeas corpus. Have you had a conversation with Stephen Miller
about suspending habeas corpus?
Secretary Noem. I have not.
Senator Kim. When it comes to FEMA, this is something that
I am concerned about, being from New Jersey. We have had
challenges with Superstorm Sandy and others in the past. I was
alarmed when I saw some reports that the acting head,
Richardson, said last Thursday that he is about 80 to 85
percent done with the hurricane season plan, given that we are
just days away from hurricane season beginning.
I just wanted to ask you, is he done with his hurricane
preparedness plan?
Secretary Noem. He is working diligently with the employees
at FEMA and are prepared for hurricane season. What you
referenced----
Senator Kim. Have you seen this plan?
Secretary Noem. Yes. I have been actively engaged in the
hurricane response and preparation. We are prestaging people,
prestaging equipment, and we are making sure that we have
tabletop exercises. We are running through with all of our
regions on what their response will be. It has been very
extensive how we have laid out this plan.
Senator Kim. Will you be able to share that plan with this
Committee?
Secretary Noem. I will check and make sure that I can.
Senator Kim. Yes, if you could check on that.
Secretary Noem I would think that we would be able to do
that. I cannot see any reason that that would be.
Senator Kim. Just one last thing. A couple of weeks ago you
said that you were considering restarting in-person training at
the National Fire Academy. I just wanted to ask if you are
prepared to tell this Committee that you are moving forward
with restarting in-person trainings.
Secretary Noem. Yes. The plan is to do that again.
Senator Kim. That has been approved to restart it?
Secretary Noem. Yes, it has been.
Senator Kim. OK, thank you, and with that I yield back.
Chairman Paul. Senator Scott.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SCOTT
Senator Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, thanks,
Secretary Noem, for being here today. I want to take this
opportunity to thank you and President Trump for returning the
Department of Homeland Security to its core mission of securing
the homeland and making communities safe again.
We had an increase in threats under Biden and a completely
open border. You have prioritized our border. Daily border
encounters have plunged 95 percent since President Trump took
office. Is that correct?
Secretary Noem. That is correct.
Senator Scott. You are finishing the border wall, and in
100 days DHS already has 85 miles of new construction either
planned or under construction. Does that sound right?
Secretary Noem. That is correct, yes.
Senator Scott. The Trump administration has reunited nearly
5,000 unaccompanied children with a safe relative or guardian
after the Biden administration completely lost track of over
300,000 of these vulnerable minors. Does that sound right?
Secretary Noem. That is correct.
Senator Scott. The United States Customs and Border
Protection and the U.S. Coast Guard have seized nearly 232,000
pounds of fentanyl and other illicit drugs, stopping them from
ever reaching American communities or Florida shores. Sound
right?
Secretary Noem. That is correct.
Senator Scott. And you are bringing accountability to the
agency. It is incredible what we can do with a willing partner
like you and President Trump, who actually want a secure border
and enforce our laws.
Secretary Mayorkas testified repeatedly before this
Committee and lied to my face saying that our border was
secure. Clearly it was not. Worst, the Biden administration
dismantled every process and system we had in place to secure
the border and allowed millions of illegal aliens, including
hundreds of known terrorists, to come into our country
unchecked and unvetted, wreaking havoc and bringing drugs. They
were welcomed into our country by Mayorkas and the Biden
administration.
Secretary Noem, you have been working for months to fix the
mess your predecessor left behind. Is the border secure?
Secretary Noem. Yes, it is.
Senator Scott. Besides additional resources, what would you
clearly need, what legislation fixes do you need from Congress
to maintain a secure border?
Secretary Noem. Senator, thank you for the question. This
border is the most secure border that we have ever had in the
history of the United States of America. But what we need to do
is address that are still vulnerable, and those areas require
technology, wall infrastructure, more individuals, at time, we
need surveillance equipment, camera equipment to be fixed. Only
one out of three CBP cameras are really functional right now.
So the reconciliation package is incredibly important for
us to have the resources we need at the border but also to make
sure that CBP can continue to do their work that they at our
ports of entry (POEs), assessing tariffs and collecting duties,
all of that. But beyond that, reconciliation has needed assets
for other areas of our national security portfolio.
The fact of the matter is that the Department of Homeland
Security is one of the largest agencies with one of the
smallest budgets, and the task that we have taken on has gotten
more and more complicated all the time. As things move online,
cybersecurity bad actors get more sophisticated. Now we have
let these dangerous terrorists and cartel members into our
country, in the interior of our country, that threaten the
American public. They need to be removed and taken out, and we
are fighting a court system, at times, as well.
So that reconciliation package makes sure that we are able
to do due diligence in the work that we do and really assure
the American people that we are on watch for them.
Beyond that, Remain in Mexico policy to be codified would
be incredibly important, to make sure we have stability in that
policy going forward. Some clarity and credible fear would be
wonderful to have if this body would choose to tackle that.
That would help us not have to deal consistently with court
challenges and tie us up fighting that battle when we really
should be addressing security concerns.
Senator Scott. Miami is one the 11 U.S. cities hosting
matches for the upcoming World Cup. Can you discuss how DHS is
preparing for that, how DHS is working with the State and
locals to make sure they have everything they need for a
successful and secure event?
Secretary Noem. Yes. We are working diligently with FIFA
and other entities to ensure that cities and States have the
assets that they need. This will be an unprecedented world
event. It will take place in three different countries and many
cities across our country but also Mexico and Canada. It will
take place over a month. It is the equivalent to 10 different
Super Bowls, and we will, at times, have 11 different matches
going on in the country on the same day. And making sure we are
supporting security operations in all of these cities is
imperative.
So having conversations now. There are meetings happening
almost every single day between our Department, the White
House, the Federal Government, and FIFA, and these cities to
ensure that we have the protocols in place, the guidelines in
place, universal approach to how they are going to be applied,
and then what we can do to secure not just the ground and
territory and access to these events but also the airspace
above it. We need counter-drone technology. We need to have
jurisdiction to be able to make sure that we are dealing with
those threats as they present themselves, but also make sure
that we have the men and women that are trained and prepared to
secure them going forward.
It will be safe, and it will be secure. It is a lot of work
because we have never done anything like this before, though.
Senator Scott. Thank you for all your hard work and your
team.
Secretary Noem. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Chairman Paul. Senator Slotkin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR SLOTKIN
Senator Slotkin. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for being
here. You know, Michigan is a border State so we need each
other. We have a very big bridge that is being inaugurated,
ribbon cut, in September. We need that to be fully staffed. We
have a lot going on in Michigan as a Northern border State, so
we need each other.
But what I am concerned about is that you have taken the
mandate to close off the border beyond going after, as you say,
the, ``most dangerous illegal immigrants.'' I am a Central
Intelligence Administration (CIA) officer. I worked my entire
life to protect the homeland. If someone is here illegally,
they need to not be here. They have committed a crime by being
here, they need to go back to wherever they are from.
But my concern is that either through sloppiness or intent,
you have gone far beyond going after the, ``most dangerous
illegal immigrants'' and gone into legal immigrants who were
given the ability to be here, and even American citizens. When
I think about that, there are lots of people in this country,
including me, who have families who fled this kind of
environment where they have no rights, where they have no due
process, where they do not have habeas corpus.
While I will be the first to say, coming from a State that
was won by Trump, that there is a mandate to do something about
the border, I think it is absolutely dangerous overreach to go
beyond that and start picking up American citizens and people
who have the legal right to be here, lawful immigrants who have
done everything right.
So first and foremost, do you acknowledge that your
Department has made some mistakes, any mistakes, in going after
either American citizens or legal immigrants here, in the time
that you have been in office?
Secretary Noem. We have not deported any U.S. citizens.
Senator Slotkin. Detained?
Secretary Noem. People get interviewed. If they get
interviewed and they go through that process and we find that
they are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants, they stay in the
United States. We have to go through a vetting process.
Senator Slotkin. Have any American citizens, including
children, been deported during your time in office?
Secretary Noem. We have children that mothers have chosen
to keep with them, so those----
Senator Slotkin. By my count you have 10 American citizens,
including children with cancer, who have been deported out of
the country. I understand you are saying it is their choice.
Secretary Noem. But the mother----
Senator Slotkin. It is hard to imagine a small child having
a choice. But have you gone after legal immigrants? Again, your
standard, in your opening statement, was the most dangerous
illegal immigrants. Does that include Ph.D. students and
master's students at colleges across the country, unarmed? Are
they the most dangerous illegal when they have status and no
weapons?
Secretary Noem. I do not decide who gets status through a
student program. The Department of State decides that and we
enforce it.
Senator Slotkin. Oh, come on.
Secretary Noem. That is what our Department of Homeland
Security does.
Senator Slotkin. I just would offer this.
Secretary Noem. Those student programs----
Senator Slotkin. Again, I have no qualms with going after
folks who are here illegally. That is not my concern. That was
part of my job was to prevent people from coming here
illegally, in a former life. My concern is you are sending a
chill down the spine of America by going after people who
either have legal status or American citizens. When my
colleagues asked you about habeas corpus, and you said,
literally--we can review the tape--that you believe it is right
the President has, you sat here in front of all of us and swore
an oath to the Constitution, and that is not at all what habeas
corpus is. It is a right that we all get, that American
citizens get, that people who are in the United States legally
have.
My concern is it is complete overreach. I do not think
American citizens, even those who voted for Trump, believe that
you should be able to just grab someone off the street, sloppy,
who has the legal right to be here and certainly an American
citizen. I just am concerned that while you say you are going
after the most dangerous folks, what you are actually doing is
going after folks for political reasons, right? A Ph.D. student
is not----
Secretary Noem. We are absolutely not doing that. We are
not deporting U.S. citizens, and we are not deporting people
who have legal status here.
Senator Slotkin. Well, 10 American citizens have been
deported.
Secretary Noem. If children have gone with their parents it
is because their parents wanted them with them.
Senator Slotkin. Let me ask you another question about
cybersecurity. You have cut $500 million from the budget. What
specific programs are you cutting? Because there are programs
that really aid States and locals, that we depend on for
cybersecurity. We know that right now, while we may have good
security in the Federal Government, if you are a local State
official, you are depending on the Federal Government. So have
you cut the ISAC program, the program to States and locals on
cybersecurity?
Secretary Noem. The President's recommended budget has a
reduction in $491 million.
Senator Slotkin. Does it cut that program? I have heard the
talking point.
Secretary Noem. What it is doing is putting CISA back on
mission. And it is ensuring that----
Senator Slotkin. You cannot say that----
Secretary Noem [continuing]. Cybersecurity is going to be
strengthened.
Senator Slotkin. You cannot say it is the most cyber secure
administration if you are cutting the program to my State, and
to your State. If you look on record, that is what you have
cut. I yield back.
Chairman Paul. The time has expired. Senator Hawley.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY
Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Secretary
Noem, good to see you. Welcome. Congratulations on securing the
border in a record amount of time. The last administration came
and sat where you are sitting for four years and told us it
could not be done, the border was just an intractable problem,
it would take years to do it. You did it in the space of,
really, 30 days, and now the United States' Southern border is
secure. So thank you for your tremendous work on that.
I want to begin, however, with the situation in St. Louis,
which I am sure you are aware of. On Friday afternoon and
evening, major storms ripped through the St. Louis area, as
well as southeast Missouri. I am going to put a picture\1\ up
over my shoulder here. An F-3 tornado cut right through North
St. Louis. What you are seeing here is pretty typical, I am sad
to say, of the damage. We lost five people in St. Louis. We
lost another two in Scott County, which is down in southeast
Missouri, there to the south, a couple of hours south of the
city.
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\1\ The picture referenced by Senator Hawley appears in the
Appendix on page 63.
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I spent much of the day yesterday just walking these
neighborhoods and talking to residents, and this, what you are
seeing over my shoulder, is what these neighborhoods all look
like. These are areas that families have lived here--in some
cases, I talked to one individual, one gentleman, and he said
that his family had been there since his great-grandmother came
to that neighborhood in 1919. So it is that kind of a
community, and they are totally devastated.
Yesterday afternoon, my Governor requested an emergency
disaster declaration to expedite FEMA funds to help the State
just cleanup, I mean, just cleanup the kind of rubble now that
you are seeing behind me.
You have been a Governor, until very recently. You know how
important this is. Can we get your help to expedite the
consideration of that request? Again, it was just made
yesterday. We need it as quickly as possible. Will you help us
expedite that?
Secretary Noem. Yes, absolutely. I have spoken with your
Governor and did the day that this devastation happened. We
have promised and pledged to get that expedited as soon as
possible for him, so he can have the resources that he needs to
respond to his people. That is one of the failures that FEMA
has had in the past, is that people that incur this kind of
damage and lose everything, then they sit there for months,
sometimes years, and never get the promised critical response
that they believe they should be getting from the Federal
Government. That is why President Trump believes that this
agency needs to be dramatically reformed.
Senator Hawley. I am glad to hear you say that, and you are
exactly right. We have had this situation in Missouri in years
past, where we have had individuals who have qualified for FEMA
aid, including individual assistance. In some cases they have
been awarded the assistance, and then FEMA has come in and
clawed it back, or never paid it out, or never sent teams to
help.
So to have your commitment to expedite this is tremendous.
That will be welcome news to the residents of St. Louis. We
also have, the State has, pending three requests for major
disaster declarations from earlier storms. We have lost over a
dozen people. Actually, if you count the folks we lost just on
Friday, we have lost almost 20 people now in major storms, just
in the last two months in Missouri. It has been a terrible
spring for us.
Here again, can I ask for your help? Will you commit to
helping, for those three major disaster declaration requests
that are pending, will you help expedite those, Secretary Noem,
and get those in front of the President, get those approved? We
are desperate for the assistance in Missouri.
Secretary Noem. Yes, absolutely.
Senator Hawley. Thank you.
Secretary Noem. I will make sure that application gets to
the White House as soon as possible.
Senator Hawley. Fantastic. Thank you. Can I also have your
commitment that if and when the President approves a major
disaster declaration for this storm that just happened on
Friday in St. Louis, will you expedite, as much as possible,
FEMA individual assistance for those who qualify for it in the
St. Louis area?
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Senator Hawley. I want to tell you just how important that
is, because as I toured these streets and walked and talked to
the residents, what I heard over and over is many of these
folks do not have insurance. Many of these folks, they either
got their homes from a family member or they bought them from a
family member so they do not have a mortgage on the property
and therefore they do not have homeowner insurance.
So as you know, having been a Governor, in many instances
FEMA assistance is going to be the only assistance that they
are going to get. I just had a hearing in this Committee and
our Subcommittee, Senator Kim and I last week, where we talked
to major insurance companies who routinely scam people by
refusing to pay out the full policy awards that they are due. I
know we are going to be fighting that in Missouri. We have got
to have the Federal Government, where there is individual
assistance that people qualify for, we have to have people be
able to get that. Otherwise, we are never going to be able to
rebuild these neighborhoods.
So you just committed, I think, to expediting that. I
appreciate that. Thank you for your help in all of this.
Secretary Noem. Thank you.
Senator Hawley. Then the last thing I will say is, can you
commit, also, to making sure that the FEMA communication, with
the State and with individuals, is open, is clear, is
transparent? You referenced the fact that FEMA is notorious for
giving bad information, for slow-walking residents, for
confusing intake forms that nobody knows how to fill out, for
not getting back to people.
Can you commit to, as we deal with this disaster in St.
Louis and others around the State, that under your leadership
FEMA is going to act with expedition, they are going to be
clear in their communications, and they are going to follow up
and give people the awards that they need if they qualify for
it.
Secretary Noem. Yes. That has been the biggest challenge of
FEMA in the past, is just the delayed response. People are
counting on the assistance and it never comes through. The
paperwork is too complicated for an individual many times to
complete on their own. They need help and assistance. So that
is part of the reforms that the FEMA Review Council will be
undertaking, and we have people that are our frontline
responders across the country that are serving on that council.
We will take your insight, as well. But we will continue to
expedite what we can with the framework we have in front of us,
but do better diligence than the last administration on how we
take care of people.
Senator Hawley. Fantastic. Everything you said today is
going to be very welcome news in St. Louis and the rest of
Missouri this morning. Thank you for being here. Thank you for
your service.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chairman Paul. Senator Fetterman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR FETTERMAN
Senator Fetterman. Thank you. Secretary, hi. Hello. As you
may know, I am from Pennsylvania. I occupy perhaps a unique
position. I have been very pro-immigration, but I early
identified the serious problem about the border, the security.
I have said this publicly, and I will say it now, that my party
failed to secure our border, and we deserve to pay a political
price for that. I have been trying to move forward on those
things.
I voted for you, not because you and I agree on a lot of
political things and we are in different parties, but you are
the Secretary and I am a Member of this Committee, so I believe
we have to find a way to work forward together. I am not here
for fireworks or to try to create like something to be clipped
on TV. I am honestly coming and asking for your help about a
situation here.
So now, I have a constituent. His name is Ramin. He is an
Afghani who served alongside our servicemembers there in the
war. He is a resident of Philadelphia. Now he is a surgeon, and
he saved American lives, and now he is waiting to be approved,
like a green card. He helped evacuate our forces through an
airlift. And his two brothers, of course, we cannot name them
due to their concerns, but they are trapped in Pakistan, and
the risk for removal for Afghanistan, they face torture and
death because of their commitment for a free and democratic
Afghanistan. They have saved American lives, and they have
defended our forces.
And now, here, that is part of my concern right now, and I
am looking for help, honestly, and that is one of the reasons
why I voted for you, because we want to try and find a way,
because not all immigration is just about securing our border.
We know. But it is about helping people that deserve to come to
our nation after serving in such an amazing, great risk.
So there is the President's Executive Order suspending
refugee resettlement, but again, they kind of got caught up in
the middle of that. Honestly, I am not here looking for the
theater. I am just here to come because I think I believe they
deserve to be here for the sacrifices and what they have put at
risk. I am asking if we are able to get some kind of working
with my office, please, to find a way to bring these Afghani
heroes, that saved American lives during that war, because
things maybe got caught up in these Executive Orders. So that
is really all I am asking today.
Secretary Noem. Yes, Senator, we will certainly work with
your office on those specific cases. We have 8,000 individuals
that have been granted asylum since President Trump has been in
office, looking at cases much like you have. These individuals
that are here, that may have been on a different program like
TPS that is no longer going to be in place in a couple of
months, we have the opportunity to work with them to get them
qualified.
Many of the concerns with some of these countries, when you
are talking about interacting with them and giving them status
and green cards here in the United States, is the ability to
vet them. It sounds like the individuals that you know have
been thoroughly vetted and in partnership with the United
States. So that is something that we will look at and we will
certainly work with you on, recognizing their service to our
country.
Senator Fetterman. Yes. I would be profoundly grateful if
my office can work with your team and perhaps even with State,
as well, too. So that is all this is about, too. It is a
political truth that we have to find a way to work together,
because there are truths and it is not owned by one side or the
other.
I look forward to finding a solution here. Thank you. I
yield.
Secretary Noem. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Paul. Senator Moreno.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MORENO
Senator Moreno. Secretary Noem, thank you for being here.
Thank you for your work. I just want to reiterate for the
record, 93 percent drop in border encounters. Is that accurate?
Secretary Noem. That is correct.
Senator Moreno. Are you aware that during the Biden-Harris
administration we had 4,000 aliens that died along the journey
to come to America?
Secretary Noem. I was not aware of that specific number,
but it does not surprise me. It is a dangerous trip.
Senator Moreno. It is a dangerous trip. The Darien Gap,
which is right near where I was born, in Colombia, went from
being a supposedly uncrossable border to hundreds of thousands
of people making that journey. Who benefited from our open
borders policy under Biden?
Secretary Noem. Oh, I would say Joe Biden certainly did.
Senator Moreno. And the drug cartels that made tens of
billions of dollars.
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Senator Moreno. And who was the victim? Certainly American
citizens.
Secretary Noem. American citizens, but those who chose to
come to our country at that time, believing that they could
come without any consequences.
Senator Moreno. Obviously the drug cartels are drug
cartels, that became human traffickers, at scale, and used that
human trafficking as a disguise to allow illegal fentanyl to
come into our country. What has been the ramifications of that?
What have you seen firsthand when you go to the border? What do
the agents tell you about the fentanyl that is coming across
the border?
Secretary Noem. It is devastating. Luckily, we have the
ability now to enforce our laws with this President, and
fentanyl traffic has been down 54 percent since he has been in
office, because of that.
Unfortunately, what is happening is these cartels, foreign
terrorist organizations, are now moving to our maritime
borders. They are moving and getting much more sophisticated.
So we need to adapt and have the resources to be able to
interdict them before they come in and kill off our next
generation of Americans.
Senator Moreno. Yes. It is not hyperbole to say that tens
of thousands of Americans have not been killed with fentanyl
because of the drop.
Secretary Noem. Correct. Absolutely.
Senator Moreno. It is important to just reflect, not for
political reasons but just for moral reasons, to say that what
happened over the last four years is just despicable. We should
never have allowed that to happen. There was no outcry about
the situation, and yet it was allowed to happen.
Now, it is a lot easier to enter America than it is to be
deported from America. Can you talk about that for a minute?
Secretary Noem. That is true. When you have a President in
the White House that is openly saying our laws will not be
enforced and is facilitating this invasion that happened over
our Southern border, we had millions of people come, and not
just people looking for new opportunities and the American
Dream. You had people coming that were criminals, murderers,
rapists, traffickers, terrorists. Now to remove them is much
more complicated, difficult, and expensive. For us to deport
someone, that we have to go out and find that individual,
arrest and detain them and remove them from the country, it
costs upwards to $17,000, if there aren't more delays than the
normal process.
That is why we are encouraging people to self-deport. If
you are here illegally, we recognize that you may have been
here for a period of time. But if you want to leave and have
the chance to come back someday, leave on your own. We will
facilitate that. We will buy you a plane ticket. When you land
we will give you $1,000 that you can get started with and
provide for your family. That cost of self-deportation is
$4,500. So much cheaper for the American taxpayer in how we
make sure that we really are following our laws, and that the
people here in this country, the American citizens, are treated
with respect that they are due, by coming here through the
legal process and being a part of our future.
Senator Moreno. Yes, I think it is just important, and I
hope my colleagues, especially on the other side of the aisle--
I look at Senator Gallego whose family came here from another
country, his mom from Colombia, his dad from Mexico--that we
honor and respect those of us like myself, my five brothers, my
sister, my mom and dad, that followed the legal process, which,
by the way, is hard. It is a privilege to come to America. It
is not easy. You have to go through a process.
But over the last four years, what we did is we made it so
that if you hired a drug cartel, brought you to the border, and
then raised your hand when you got to the Border Patrol and
said, ``Asylum,'' or ``Asilo, asilo,'' that that got you a free
ticket into the country, free housing, free health care, free
education, to the detriment of Americans. I think that should
be something we unite about. Senator Fetterman talked about
asylum seekers. Those are not asylum seekers. They are people
who want a better life. They are economic migrants, and we
empathize for them. But we have to have a process that we honor
the people who are following the rules.
For example, the Afghanis that he is talking about, well,
they have to wait in line behind millions of fake asylum
claims, and I think we have to, once and for all, acknowledge
that this the case.
I was proud to introduce something called the Refugees
Using Legal Entry Safety Act (RULES Act). Unfortunately, the
Democrats blocked that very commonsense bill, which would have
said, hey, if you come across our border illegally and claim
asylum you cannot claim asylum at an undesignated port of
entry, and you are immediately returned. That is something that
is commonsense.
I want to ask you just a few other just technical
questions.
Chairman Paul. Time. We are going to do another round in
just a few minutes.
Senator Moreno. OK. Do you mind if I just ask one quick
question?
Chairman Paul. One quick question.
Senator Moreno. OK. I want to just encourage you to
continue to do what you are doing, which is to enforce the law,
which is that the agencies within DHS purchase products in the
United States of America. I applaud you for doing that.
Secretary Noem. Yes, thank you for that.
Chairman Paul. Senator Gallego.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR GALLEGO
Senator Gallego. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Secretary
Noem, for attending today. Let me start by also agreeing with
Senator Moreno on some things, and I think it is positive that
the Trump administration has provided stronger border security
to keep illegal border crossings as close to zero as possible.
We definitely have seen that in Arizona.
My concern is it is not sustainable. It is expensive. That
is why I recently released a commonsense border security that
would make it sustainable and would actually do it over long-
term solutions.
But let me get to my first question. Your Department is
overspending right now. It is on track to run out of money
again by mid-July to support a mass deportation campaign that
cannot be afforded. At the same time, though, you recently
requested a $50 million allotment for a private Gulfstream jet.
That is $50 million of taxpayer money to subsidize some of your
national tours that you have been going on.
Meanwhile Republicans are about to kick another 13 million
people off Medicaid to fund taxes for the rich on the backs of
working class Americans. How can you justify spending $50
million on a jet while your Department is definitely
overspending and Republicans in Congress are about to strip off
healthcare from millions of Americans?
Secretary Noem. Senator, thank you for the question. We are
spending our dollars appropriately and will be on budget. With
reference to the airframe, that was the requested dollars were
put in for, that is for the Coast Guard. It is to replace an
existing jet that is over 20 years old and is beyond its usable
hours. The Coast Guard for many years has been neglected and
has many airframes that have been grounded because they cannot
even be maintained anymore. The suppliers, that give us parts
and repairs and maintenance for them, have said that they will
no longer support that kind of a mission.
We have cutters that have not been completed, that have not
been deployed out across the world, and then we also beyond
that are asking for a request to build out the number of Coast
Guard members that we need in place. We are asking for 1,500
more to complete the mission.
Senator Gallego. Are you going to have access to that $50
million Gulfstream jet that the Coast Guard is going to supply?
Secretary Noem. The Coast Guard will use that jet exactly
how it uses the jets that it has today, exactly in the same
manner that it uses the ones it has in place today.
Senator Gallego. Would you consistently be using it to
travel?
Secretary Noem. I do not know if I would use that one or if
I would use the other one. I have no idea. But I do spend time
out there with our components, making sure that they are, know
that they have a Secretary that is engaged with them that is
visiting with them, seeing what their needs are. No sir, they
are not photos. They have meant the world to the individuals at
the Department of Homeland Security.
Senator Gallego. We have seen the Instagram photos. I have
seen some of them especially some really bad weapons handling.
Secretary Noem. They have meant the world to our ICE
agents, our border agents, who ask me to be out there with them
so we know what their lives are like.
Senator Gallego. Speaking of that, talking to some law
enforcement besides those under DHS, we have also seen some law
enforcements that have been pulled away from investigations,
such as child porn, sex trafficking. We have had some agents
pulled in that were doing investigations on bank fraud that are
now provisional ICE agents. I think creating and making them do
this type of work is also making us more and more dangerous
because they are not actually doing these long-term
investigations.
On the other hand, I have talked to some border chiefs and
sheriffs repeatedly, and they have been highlighting the danger
associated with cartels targeting teenagers in border
communities through social media apps, and recruiting them to
participate in smuggling operations. One of the bills I
introduced with several colleagues here, actually, is the
Combating Cartels on Social Media Act, which will help DHS
counter this threat.
Arizona communities cannot wait for the legislative process
to play out on this. What is DHS doing to solve this problem
and help keep American children and communities safe from
cartel criminal activity, and recruitment too.
Secretary Noem. That is the problem that we have. The
longer that they are here the more established they become and
the more they recruit individuals who may live in this country,
U.S. citizens or even our kids, to be a part of their
operations.
Senator Gallego. Some of them are actually on the other
side, too, so it is both sides.
Secretary Noem. What do you mean, on the other side?
Senator Gallego. Some of the cartels are using social media
on, let's say, Mexico Web.
Secretary Noem. Yes, definitely they are.
Senator Gallego. So it is back and forth.
Secretary Noem. Yes. They definitely are. But they also are
infiltrating our country still by recruiting our children to be
a part of their network.
Senator Gallego. That is the problem, yes.
Secretary Noem. We are working with not just the experts
that we have withing CBP and ICE but also using our other
components to address some of the sophistication that we have
seen in these apps, as far as CISA and partnerships that they
may have with private industry that can give us insight in what
we can do to deploy our own counterterrorist activities and
applications to those systems, what we can do to make sure that
we are stopping their ability to communicate with our children,
and bringing awareness.
The Department of Homeland Security has programs in
different areas, such as the Know2Protect and the other
programs you may be familiar with.
Senator Gallego. Have you been able to work directly with
the social media companies, though, not just through the
legislative process?
Secretary Noem. We have had conversations with the social
media companies.
Senator Gallego. By the time we get around to doing it we
are losing more and more people. So like having a very direct
conversation and a concentrated effort to actually have
outcomes is going to be quicker, because they have the option
to do it. We do not have to come in and do it. They just choose
not to because they would rather make more money than anything
else.
Secretary Noem. That may be, but I found them very willing
to come to the table. I have had, myself, spent dozens of hours
with them, and my team has spent hundreds of hours visiting
with them on what we can do to be much more proactive. They
have some solutions that we can pursue. We will be coming to
you with some of those ideas. But I think it is important that
we use their knowledge of this way of communication and
recruitment to help protect our children.
Senator Gallego. I yield back.
Chairman Paul. Senator Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Secretary Noem, thank
you very much for being here today. I really appreciate it.
During your confirmation process I had shared a story with
you, and it was a heartbreaking story about one of my
constituents, Sarah Root. Sarah was killed by an illegal
immigrant that was drunk driving with three times the blood
alcohol content of the legal limit, three times over the limit.
Using a loophole in the Federal law, that killer, he fled
the country and he vanished for years. But thanks to your
leadership and the work of many of the brave men and women of
DHS and the State Department, Sarah's killer was arrested in
Honduras in a matter of days--after our conversation, and was
extradited back to the United States. He is in Omaha, Nebraska,
now, and he is going through the court system there. Believe
you and me, Sarah's mother, Michelle Root, her father, Scott
Root, and her brother, Scottie Root, thank you, day in and day
out, and President Trump for having the wherewithal to follow
through to bring her killer to justice. So thank you. Thank you
for that.
Secretary Noem. Thank you for telling Sarah's story. I know
you had to for many years. That was the first time Honduras
actually extradited someone for homicide. I think it is very
important, the precedent we set, the relationship that we built
there, so that we are able to get some justice for Sarah's
family. Thank you for being passionate about her, and that just
proves that telling your story and telling her story does not
fall on deaf ears with this Administration.
Senator Ernst. It certainly does not. I want to take this
time just to point out the difference in the administrations.
After this killer fled from prosecution in the United States,
he was on ICE's Most Wanted List. That was in the Trump
administration. When President Biden came into office he
actually took this killer, Edwin Mejia, off of the Most Wanted
List. They were not actively trying to find him. They did not
care about Sarah's plight nor that of her parents.
President Trump came back into office, and again, within
that first month of President Trump being in office, and you
being sworn in, we had located him in Honduras, and was able to
negotiate for the extradition of this killer back to the United
States. This family deserves justice, and I am glad that they
are getting it. So thank you, Secretary Noem.
Just a few moments ago you said that you have provided the
Committee, with ``50,000 pages from COVID and the origins.'' I
haven't seen any of those pages yet. Will you commit to
ensuring that I am able to see those 50,000 pages?
Secretary Noem. Yes, certainly. They were given to the
Chair at his request, and I will certainly forward those to
you, as well.
Chairman Paul. Yes, and those documents are up, and your
staff does have access to them.
Senator Ernst. OK, great. Thank you. I appreciate that. I
know that the Biden administration had blocked us from seeing
that information, so I think it is really important that those
of us on the Committee that have pursued the origins of COVID
have the opportunity to review those documents. So thank you.
Just in the remaining time that I have I want to talk a
little bit about the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)
work that we have going on, and you have been a very good
partner with DOGE. I want to commend your recent efficiency.
You have enhanced election integrity and you have saved
taxpayer dollars. In October 2024, my home State of Iowa
uncovered over 2,000 cases of non-citizens registering to vote,
or voting, after self-identifying as non-citizens at the
Department of Motor Vehicle (DMV). This happens every day,
folks.
The previous administration, again, Joe Biden's
administration, obstructed Iowa's request for immigrant
verification records in the days before our Federal election.
This is unacceptable, and I am grateful that you tackled this
issue immediately.
Some people may say, ``Two thousand people? No big deal.''
But I will remind you that in one of our congressional
districts, in the case of Mariannette Miller-Meeks, who is now
a Congresswoman, she won her race by six votes. It matters.
Thank you, Secretary Noem, for doing the right thing, and I
yield. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Thank you. We are going to try to do a quick
round of five minutes, one more time. I am going to gavel at
five minutes so the Secretary knows, everybody knows that is
the end and we are going to try to move on to the next person
to get you out of here.
We talked a little bit about the wall earlier. The
Administration has asked for $46.5 billion for the wall. The
border on the Mexican border is about 1,950 miles. We have
fenced or walled about 700 of it. That leaves about $1,200
miles. There are 200 or 300 miles of it that probably are never
going to have a fence on it. It is mountainous or just
impossible to fence or wall.
I would say, realistically, you have under 1,000. But let's
say just there are 1,000. You really want a wall on 1,000. CBP
says it is $6.5 million per mile. Your response today was $12
million per mile. That means $12 billion for 1,000. We are off
here by a factor of three or four, with $46 billion. Where is
the rest of the $46 billion? The Administration says they want
$46 billion for a wall. You could pave all of it and still have
$34 billion left over. What is the $34 billion going for?
Secretary Noem. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question.
We do have 702 miles of wall today, and 598 of that are steel.
The rest of that is temporary that is in place. Since the
President has been in office, over 70 miles has been erected.
We have 11 contracts that have gone out and allocated. We also
have five more that are pending.
Based on the dollars that have been requested it is not
just the infrastructure that would be built. It would be the
actual wall construction. It would be also surveillance
equipment----
Chairman Paul. The number is way off. You can do 1,000
miles for $12 billion. You are asking for $46 billion. I am one
who is not impressed and would have to see more detail as to
where the rest of the money is going. We cannot just throw $30
billion out there and say things cost a lot.
Secretary Noem. I agree. We will get you the specifics on
that.
Chairman Paul. With regard to the drones and all the
preparatory work that DHS does and the government does for the
NFL and for FIFA, does NFL play DHS for the work you do?
Secretary Noem. Boy, not to my knowledge.
Chairman Paul. I mean, here is my point. The NFL makes
billions of dollars. We are $2 trillion in the hole. I do not
care if government shares their technology and government helps
out the World Cup. But they ought to pay.
Secretary Noem. Yes.
Chairman Paul. People are paying hundreds of dollars for
tickets, I mean thousands of dollars for the NFL for Super Bowl
and things. They are also paying for FIFA. These people ought
to pay. I am the one holding up these authorizations, and I
will let them go forward, but I want people to pay. I mean, it
is ridiculous that the average taxpayer, who could never afford
to go to an NFL Super Bowl, has got to pay for their security.
Should the government help, if we have technology and they do
not? Perhaps. But they ought to pay.
The NFL, FIFA, I think they all ought to pay, and we will
be insisting on trying to put language in that. If you are a
for-profit entity and the government is helping you, you ought
to pay for it.
With regard to TSA Quiet Skies and Tulsi Gabbard's
situation, I suspect there are going to be other people that
were caught up in this thing, as well. I am horrified by the
idea that we took a former Congresswoman and we are surveilling
her and riding on jets with her. There was another story of an
air marshal was following another air marshal or his wife. I
want to hear the story of what happened. I want to hear that
people have been let go, that they are no longer doing this. If
there were abuses of Tulsi Gabbard's liberties I want to hear
from that.
I want repercussions to come from this. I think you said
something is coming. Please let us know, and let us know how
the program, the destruction of civil liberties, can be
minimized. I, frankly, probably have trouble with the whole
program, but let's see if there is some way. We need
significant reform. If it needs legislation, please come to us
with that.
Thank you for your testimony today.
Secretary Noem. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Senator Peters.
Senator Peters. Thank you again, Secretary Noem, for being
here. I just want to follow up briefly with Chair Paul's
questions about the cost of the wall, the billions of dollars
that are going to be put forward. We do have to have accurate
numbers so that we can look at that for funding it. But I hope
you would also take a look at all of the costs of the wall,
because there are a lot of other secondary kinds of defenses
you have to put forward.
I was at the wall. I have been with security folks. They
tell me that a lot of the cartels have designed very
sophisticated technologies to get over the wall. They are
called ladders and they are called ropes. So a wall does not
really do the job if there are not a lot of other background
technologies there. You just cannot put on a cost for the wall.
That is money that is not going to be as effective without
everything else. Let's have a discussion about that.
For the first time in U.S. history, the Federal Government,
at the direction of President Trump, is moving immigrants
apprehended and detained in the United States on civil
immigration charges to Naval Station at Guantanamo Bay, which I
know you are very familiar with. In March, I traveled to
Guantanamo Bay with several colleagues to have a firsthand
examination of the detention operations underway, and I
certainly have serious concerns about the costs involved there.
Today, can you tell us the total cost for detaining individuals
at Guantanamo Bay?
Secretary Noem. You want the cost per individual?
Senator Peters. Do you have that?
Secretary Noem. I do not have that with me today, sir. I
can get that for you.
Senator Peters. I do have a number. Do you know how much it
costs to hold an immigration in ICE detention facility in the
United States? Do you have that number?
Secretary Noem. Are you talking per day? I believe the last
estimate that I got was $142 a day, around in that
approximately, per day.
Senator Peters. Yes, but it is close to, what I am
understanding, I understand it is $165 per day, so it is in the
range.
I am still waiting for detailed financial information from
this Administration from my time at Guantanamo Bay. In fact, we
wrote a letter with Chair Paul and the Ranking Member together.
We wanted more information on the cost there.
When I was there, the 2-month cost estimate for operations
was $43 million, when we were down there talking to the
officials there, and that does not include transportation to
and from the island. We find that people are sent to the island
and then they are sent back to the United States again before
they are sent out. I am not sure why we have all those costs.
We have plenty of ICE facilities to keep them here, why you
have to send them there and back.
On the day that I visited there were 87 people in custody,
and my understanding is that is a pretty normal number, at that
time, at least. So my back-of-the-napkin calculation--we are
waiting for your numbers--is that it is costing about $100,000
a day to keep someone at Guantanamo Bay. Man, this is like ripe
for DOGE. Why is DOGE not down there, that we are spending
$100,000 a day to keep someone at Guantanamo? And we fly them
down there, we keep them there a while, then we fly them back
to the United States. Or we could keep them here for $165 a
day. I think that is kind of outrageous.
I am concerned by the staggering cost of this, and I would
hope, Secretary, you could commit to providing this Committee a
detailed breakdown of the total cost of that operation there.
There was just a sea of empty beds. There were all sorts of
security folks, and nobody in those beds, which is why it is so
expensive.
Chair Paul will probably use this on his Festivus Report
later, I am sure, of outrageous government spending, and I will
look forward to seeing that.
Secretary Noem, are you familiar with Section 872 of the
Homeland Security Act of 2002?
Secretary Noem. It sounds familiar, sir. You will have to
remind me the topic, yes.
Senator Peters. Section 872 requires you, as Secretary, to
provide a 60-day notice to Congress of any creation, deletion,
consolidation, or alteration of organizations within the
Department that are not required, in statute, which must
include an explanation for the rationale behind any charges. It
also prohibits you from making any changes to offices in the
status.
My question for you is why have you not provided notice to
Congress of the changes you are making at the Department, and
will you be doing so in the near future, and will you include
intended reduction in forces in that. For example, you have
already terminated virtually the whole Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties Office staff without any communication to Congress
about your intent, and the only letter yesterday claiming all
of the statutory responsibilities would be met, you sent a
letter but it conflicts certainly with the whistleblower
discloser that I received last week.
So please explain to the Committee why you are not
following this law.
Secretary Noem. Senator, we are following that law. Those
offices that you referenced are still open and functioning and
providing their duties as required, but they have been
rightsized. Many times the Office of Civil Rights and Civil
Liberties, or the Ombudsman Office, which you and I visited
about before, had grown quite expansive. They were used as a
political tool, suing and attacking each other and censoring
individuals and not doing the job for which they were created.
So we have rightsized them, put them back on mission. If there
would be an instance to where notification is required, I
certainly will follow that.
Chairman Paul. Time has expired. Senator Moreno.
Senator Moreno. Thank you again, Secretary. Following up on
the themes that were just brought up, it seems to me that the
most commonsense answer and the least expensive way to house
criminal aliens in the country is to not allow them to come
here in the first place. Right? So whether it is $160 a day,
$100,000 a day, it should be zero per day. I hope that my
Democratic colleagues, let's just codify what President Trump
has done and prevent criminal aliens, or anybody, from entering
this country illegally. That seems like the most fiscally
conservative thing.
I hope when you are talking about these questions with the
Secretary that we just say let's just stop allowing people to
come into the country illegally. By the way, that does not mean
we do not want people to come here legally. That is the
hypocrisy I just do not understand, when you are decrying the
cost of housing criminal aliens. But you turned a blind eye
when we had 10 million people coming into this country
illegally.
Shifting gears real quick, you were a Governor. Would it
surprise you to learn that you are rated one of the top five
most fiscally conservative, frugal Governors in America last
year?
Secretary Noem. No, it would not surprise me. I worked hard
at making sure we were accountable to our taxpayers.
Senator Moreno. So you are going to commit, and I think it
would be obvious, that when you are appropriated money through
the reconciliation process to help you do what you need to do,
that you are going to be as fiscally prudent with that money.
Correct?
Secretary Noem. That is correct.
Senator Moreno. All right. Let's talk about what they need.
Certainly there is a wall, but a wall by itself, to Senator
Peters' point, does not accomplish the mission. There are all
kinds of advanced technology. I was visiting Anduril. They have
some incredible technology for detection that makes the Border
Patrol agents [unclear]. You are looking at technology like
that, right?
Secretary Noem. Oh, absolutely. That is one of the
discussions that we have had quite often with Members of
Congress and in these Committee hearings, is just the wall will
look very different based on where it is, plus the wall was
never finished even where you have a steel bollard wall. Many
times they erected the steel bollard wall but did not build out
the technology to support it and to keep individuals from
throwing ladders and ropes over them. There is a whole system
that was designed to operate together, and even when the wall
was built President Trump was never given the opportunity to
complete the system that would actually secure it much better
than just simple infrastructure.
Senator Moreno. Sure. So physical barriers, title
detections- some of these technologies can determine the
difference between an animal and a human, can direct Border
Patrol agents safely, let them know what to expect when they
are there. So those are all the technologies.
Let's talk about another part of what I would call the
wall, which is the human element. How was the moral of the
Border Patrol agents when you got there, when you took over,
day one, when you visited them. Kind of describe briefly what
that was like.
Secretary Noem. They were very discouraged. If you
remember, many of us----
Senator Moreno. I think you are being kind with
``discouraged.''
Secretary Noem. They were not allowed to do their jobs.
They hired on to Border Patrol, and ICE, I would say, it is the
same story, to do a job and they were not allowed to do that by
the last administration.
Senator Moreno. So there were recruitment challenges.
Secretary Noem. Oh, there was, but not anymore.
Senator Moreno. We have to make sure we pay them properly,
so that is part of the money, right, that we have raises for
them.
Near and dear to my heart is the automobiles that they use
there. Describe the insanity of the kinds of vehicles that
Biden and Mayorkas were giving. These are the most rugged
terrains in America, boulders and rocks and hills. They were
sending F-150's out there with 17-inch wheels. How many of the
fleet was down just because of total and complete inability to
accomplish the mission?
Secretary Noem. At times it was upwards to 30 to 40 percent
of the fleet was just unusable, not able to be maintained.
There were times the percentage would increase, based on the
conditions to which they were deployed, as well.
Senator Moreno. I know you and I have talked about this,
but I just want to reinforce it on the record. We have a great
company that builds cars in Ohio called Jeep. They make a
Gladiator that would put giant tires and wheels on a car, and
they would be an amazing Border Patrol agent. I think even the
Chair would love to see new automobiles so that the Border
Patrol agents can do their job, and that is certainly part of
the funding. Would that be something that you would look at?
Secretary Noem. Yes. It is something that we need to
address. We have to. In order for them to do their jobs they
have to have the right equipment.
Senator Moreno. Last question. Is there anything else that
we might not have asked you that you think is important for
this Committee to know?
Secretary Noem. I think that you have covered a lot of the
components. We have not discussed the Secret Service, and I
know that has been a big topic for this Committee in the past.
I have the ability and the responsibility to oversee the Secret
Service, and I just want you to know that we have gone away
from the DEI recruitment directive that the Biden
administration has utilized to recruit agents and what their
purposes are, and we have made sure that they have the ability
to do their job and protect the most powerful.
One of the statistics I think you would find to be helpful
is we have an over 200 percent increase in applications to work
for the Secret Service, because of the work that Sean Curran
and his team have done to really tell the mission and story of
what they do every day and how important it is.
Senator Moreno. Thank you.
Chairman Paul. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Secretary Noem, on May 5th
the Customs and Border Protection, quietly rescinded--I am not
sure it has even been reported--their, ``Processing of Pregnant
and Postpartum Non-Citizens and Infants,'' policy, which was
issued on January 28, 2022, citing it as, ``obsolete or
misaligned with current agency guidance and immigration
enforcement policy.''
That January 28th policy memorandum followed years of
inadequate care, documented by a report from the Inspector
General of the Department of Homeland Security, showing that
the treatment of pregnant, postpartum, and nursing women, and
infants, was just horrendously and horrifically inadequate. A
recent site visit by Senate Judiciary Committee staff confirmed
that this problem is continuing, that pregnant women being
detained do not have access to adequate health care.
Do you agree or disagree that babies and pregnant women
within CBP and ICE custody should receive care that are
tailored to their specific needs, and why, in God's name, would
that policy be rescinded providing that care?
Secretary Noem. Well, Senator, I will look at the specifics
of that policy and what was changed as of May 5th. I would say
that everybody that is incarcerated or is brought into custody
and is in a detention center is receiving appropriate care, and
that we are making accommodations for individuals that have
different physical situations or pregnancy.
Senator Blumenthal. But as a matter of fact, it is not
happening.
Secretary Noem. I will look at the specific policies as to
why one of the requirements may have been changed or adapted.
If you have a specific to point out that would be fantastic.
Senator Blumenthal. You do not know about this policy
change?
Secretary Noem. I do know about the policy change, but I
have looked at the guidelines of how we handle individuals----
Senator Blumenthal. But you know about the policy change.
How could you allow it to happen?
Secretary Noem. Sir, what are you finding wrong with what
we do with individuals who are pregnant that are in our
detention centers? Are there concerns I should be addressing?
Senator Blumenthal. Women who are pregnant or who have just
had a child and their infant babies are not receiving adequate
medical care.
Secretary Noem. Everybody receives medical care.
Senator Blumenthal. Aren't you concerned?
Secretary Noem. Everybody receives medical care that is in
our custody, and even if they are going to be returned----
Senator Blumenthal. Why was the policy rescinded then?
Secretary Noem [continuing]. Even if they are going to be
returned back to their home country, we are making sure that
they have medical care in their home country before they are
sent there. So that is something that we do very diligently, is
to make sure that anybody who has a medical issue, a concern,
something that needs to be addressed is taken care of in those
detention centers.
Senator Blumenthal. What you are telling me right now is
factually untrue.
Secretary Noem. No, it is actually followed through with
every single day.
Senator Blumenthal. But more important, you permitted a
policy to be rescinded that provides for adequate care, because
it was, ``obsolete or misaligned'' with your agency's guidance
and immigration enforcement priorities. How can you sit here
and tell us that caring for pregnant women or infants or women
postpartum is misaligned with your priorities? It boggles my
mind.
Secretary Noem. Yes, everyone who is in our care and in our
detention centers receives medical care that is appropriate----
Senator Blumenthal. But is your policy not to care for
them.
Secretary Noem [continuing]. To them and their specific
condition. Absolutely, that is happening.
Senator Blumenthal. You are about to lose a fifth of your
workforce in FEMA. Correct?
Secretary Noem. Yes. There are individuals in FEMA that are
no longer working with us. They may have taken early retirement
or deferred retirement.
Senator Blumenthal. How are you going to meet the needs of
our constituents, in Missouri or Connecticut, which suffered
floods recently. I saw FEMA in action then as I have seen them
over the years. They are dedicated, vigorous public servants.
They appear and spend hours and days and weeks caring for
people. You are losing a fifth of them, including most of the
leadership. What is your plan to replace them?
Secretary Noem. We have many people in FEMA that do very
good work every day, taking care of people that are in a crisis
situation, that are experiencing the worst day of their lives.
The problem is that over the years, and under the Biden
administration, they failed the American people.
Senator Blumenthal. You are not answering my question,
Madam Secretary.
Secretary Noem. Oh, I absolutely am.
Senator Blumenthal. How are you going to replace a
workforce that is absolutely essential----
Secretary Noem. You cannot convince me that any Federal
Government agency does a better job----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. To helping the
constituents in Missouri----
Secretary Noem [continuing]. Just because it has more
people.
Senator Blumenthal. You just committed to help them.
Secretary Noem. More people does not equal a better job.
Senator Blumenthal. You are not going to be able to help
people in Connecticut----
Secretary Noem. A better job is accountability to people
and making sure we are taking care of them.
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. In Missouri, or anywhere
in the country if you do not have the dedicated public servants
in FEMA, and you are losing them.
Chairman Paul. Time has expired. Senator Kim.
Senator Kim. Thank you, Chair. Madam Secretary, I saw the
proposed budget, and it showed a decrease for FEMA non-disaster
grants. It was a proposed cut of about $646 million. But it did
not clarify what programs you thought that needed to be cut. I
guess I just wanted to ask, is the Nonprofit Security Grant
Program (NSGP) one that you are considering cutting?
Secretary Noem. We are having discussions with the White
House on grants that will be continued in the future. The
President firmly believes that FEMA needs to be eliminated as
the way it stands today, that it needs to be reformed, and that
States and local governments should do emergency response with
the support of the Federal Government.
He believes it should not be in the long-term recovery, 20
years later still waiting to make claims to go out, and many of
the grant programs within FEMA were moved over into climate
change priorities. They were moved over into building bike
paths and shade infrastructure and planting trees, when really
if it is a disaster and if we need to mitigate something
happening in the future we should be building better roads and
bridges and putting in bigger culverts in areas that need to be
addressed, not necessarily planting shade trees in parks with
disaster recovery dollars. That is what people need to remember
is all of these dollars that come from these grants, many times
they are pulling out of that disaster recovery fund.
I think this evaluation of every single grant is
appropriate. Many of them, after they are evaluated or found to
be appropriate they are deployed. But that examination is
something I take very seriously, that I need to do to make sure
it is on task for why that grant was established.
Senator Kim. Look, I will just say point blank, I think the
answer should have been a clear no, and I think that there is
very strong bipartisanship here in Congress, especially in the
Senate, to protect the Nonprofit Security Grant Program. It is
literally the best tool that people in New Jersey are telling
me is needed to be able to counter antisemitism. I cannot tell
you the number of synagogues and temples that are lined up to
try to get this type of funding. In fact, given the rise of
antisemitism that we have in our country right now, we should
be surging resources, not cutting.
I would hope that you would have a more declarative no in
that vein, because, I will be honest with you, I have been
trying to see if we can dramatically increase funding to the
Nonprofit Security Grant Program, to try to fight this scourge
of antisemitism.
I guess I just want to ask you, would you be open to
supporting an increase in funding to the Nonprofit Security
Grant Program if I am able to work with some of my colleagues
to be able to do that?
Secretary Noem. We definitely have seen the value in that
program and are willing to discuss this with you. What I would
say is that we have to do an evaluation to make sure those
dollars are going to the appropriate entities that they were
intended. So they have been important for many different people
in different communities, and I recognize that. This
evaluation, and working with you on how that program can be
improved will be very important.
Senator Kim. I want to engage with you on this further,
because when we are hearing this language about abolishing FEMA
and whatnot, one of the elements that people have raised most
concerns about is what does that mean for the Nonprofit
Security Grant Program? I really do urge you to work with me
and this Committee to have a declarative stance on that, so
people, especially those concerned about antisemitism, can have
clarity on what comes next.
You did raise the FEMA Review Council, which you said is
going to be meeting for the first time today. I just wanted to
see, because we have talked about this before, about what comes
next, I wanted to see if you would commit to working with this
Committee and hearing our perspectives as part of the council's
work and giving us an opportunity to engage before the
Committee concludes their work and finalizes recommendations.
Is that something you can commit to?
Secretary Noem. Yes, absolutely. There are several things
that FEMA does that need your input, statutory requirements.
This is a reform process that most certainly will include you
and this Committee.
Senator Kim. Yes, that is something I know we talked about
before you were confirmed, and I hope we can follow upon that
because I think it is incredibly important. Everyone here
recognizes that reforms are needed----
Secretary Noem. Right.
Senator Kim [continuing]. But now the question is just how
is that situated. I certainly have some thoughts I want to
reflect from the folks in New Jersey.
As mentioned earlier, hurricane season is upon us. Do you
have a sense of when the White House is going to announce a
full nominee for FEMA Administrator?
Secretary Noem. It should be soon, but I am not going to
put a timeframe on President Trump.
Senator Kim. Again, we want to have confidence that we have
the leadership in place to be able to do this.
Secretary Noem. We do have a leader in place, and I can
connect you with him, as well. Dave Richardson is the Acting
Administrator.
Senator Kim. I will make sure we follow up, but it would be
good to have that formal nomination.
The last thing, and maybe we will just do this in a
question for the record (QFR), but there has been a cut,
reports of cuts to the national database tracking domestic
terrorism. DHS cut the funding. I just wanted to ask you, is
that correct, and is there any way that you could reconsider
that and see if we can make sure we are tracking domestic
terrorism rise in the country?
Secretary Noem. Yes, I can follow up with you on that and
get you that information.
Senator Kim. OK. Thank you, Secretary.
Chairman Paul. You are almost done. You have outlasted
everyone but me. You do not necessarily have to answer this.
You can comment if you want. But I think one of the problems I
have always had with discussion of the border is that people
who often are conservative and talk about fiscal conservatism,
once we start talking about the border then it is all out the
window.
So the estimates on the wall I think are important. I do
not think it is a very conservative estimate. It is more like
$30 million a mile as opposed to, CBP says six, you said 12 for
current. It is somewhere in there.
I also would say that you are controlling 95 percent of the
border without a wall right now, so that is an argument that
maybe you do not need a wall. You need willpower. I give
President Trump great compliments for what he has done and what
you have done. I mean, 95 percent under control. No new bill,
no new money.
I am not saying no new money is needed. I think you need
more Border Patrol and you are going to need more money for
that, but I think it should be within reason.
Now, if I were in charge of the border, though, and I
wanted immediate control and I was not quite there yet, I would
put 100 helipads down, concrete, about 50 yards by 50 yards,
and I would put 100 helicopters on the border every 10 miles,
and I would simply use technology to patrol the border, and I
would pick anybody and everybody up who crosses the border
illegally with the helicopters. I think you could do that, and
you could probably do it for $500 million versus $46 billion.
I know the wall has great symbolic value, but I think we
should reassess both the cost, what we want to do and how much
it costs, since we are controlling 95 percent of the border. I
think part of it is you have moved some money forward that
needs to be replaced. I am not against, or calling for no
money, but I do think that the $46 billion is not justified
unless we see something else from the Administration.
Secretary Noem. OK.
Chairman Paul. Thank you for your time today and your
commitment to work with the Committee. The hearing record will
remain open until 5 p.m., May 21, 2025, for the submission of
statements and questions for the record.
The hearing is adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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