[Senate Hearing 119-93]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-93
NOMINATIONS HEARING
=======================================================================
HEARING
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION,
LABOR, AND PENSIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
EXAMINING THE NOMINATIONS OF PENNY SCHWINN, OF TENNESSEE,
TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY, AND KIMBERLY RICHEY, OF TEXAS, TO
BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CIVIL RIGHTS, BOTH OF THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, AND DANIEL ARONOWITZ, OF VIRGINIA,
AND DAVID KEELING, OF KENTUCKY, BOTH TO BE AN ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF LABOR
__________
JUNE 5, 2025
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-604 PDF WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, LABOR, AND PENSIONS
BILL CASSIDY, M.D., Louisiana, Chairman
RAND PAUL, M.D., Kentucky BERNIE SANDERS (I), Vermont,
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine Ranking Member
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska PATTY MURRAY, Washington
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin
ROGER MARSHALL, M.D., Kansas CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina TIM KAINE, Virginia
JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire
TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama JOHN HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
JIM BANKS, Indiana ED MARKEY, Massachusetts
JON HUSTED, Ohio ANDY KIM, New Jersey
ASHLEY MOODY, Florida LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
ANGELA ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
Matthew Gallivan, Majority Staff Director
Danielle Janowski, Majority Deputy Staff Director
Warren Gunnels, Minority Staff Director
Zain Rizvi, Minority Deputy Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
STATEMENTS
THURSDAY, JUNE 5, 2025
Page
Committee Members
Cassidy, Hon. Bill, Chairman, Committee on Health, Education,
Labor, and Pensions, Opening statement......................... 1
Baldwin, Hon. Tammy, U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin,
Opening statement.............................................. 2
Witnesses
Schwinn, Penny, Nashville, TN.................................... 4
Prepared statement........................................... 5
Richey, Kimberly, Tallahassee, FL................................ 7
Prepared statement........................................... 8
Aronowitz, Daniel, Vienna, VA.................................... 10
Prepared statement........................................... 11
Keeling, David, Louisville, KY................................... 13
Prepared statement........................................... 15
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Response by Daniel Aronowitz, to questions of:
Sen. Hawley.................................................. 45
Response by David Keeling, to questions of:
Sen. Hawley.................................................. 45
Response by Kimberly Richey, to questions of:
Sen. Hawley.................................................. 46
Sen. Sanders................................................. 49
Sen. Baldwin................................................. 51
Sen. Markey.................................................. 56
Response by Penny Schwinn, to questions of:
Sen. Hawley.................................................. 46
Sen. Sanders................................................. 47
Sen. Baldwin................................................. 50
Sen. Hassan.................................................. 51
Sen. Hickenlooper............................................ 52
Sen. Markey.................................................. 52
Sen. Alsobrooks.............................................. 56
NOMINATIONS HEARING
----------
Thursday, June 5, 2025
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
430, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Bill Cassidy,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Cassidy [presiding], Murkowski, Marshall,
Hawley, Tuberville, Banks, Husted, Moody, Baldwin, Murray,
Kaine, Hassan, Hickenlooper, Markey, Kim, Blunt Rochester, and
Alsobrooks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CASSIDY
The Chairman. The Senate Committee on Health, Education,
Labor, and Pensions will please come to order. Thanks to our
nominees for being here. If confirmed, you will be crucial in
advancing President Trump's agenda, improving the lives of all
Americans, and I appreciate your willingness to serve.
If confirmed as Deputy Secretary of Education, Dr. Schwinn
will play an integral role in reforming a department that has
lost its purpose. Its bureaucracy and red tape have stood in
the way of student success.
Dr. Schwinn has a strong record of improving education
systems, including as Tennessee Commissioner of Education and
Chief Deputy Commissioner of Education in Texas. She tells me
that she personally met with President Trump to discuss these
issues. This experience will be vital as the Trump
administration looks to return power over education to states
and ensure that all students have the opportunity to succeed.
The Committee will also hear from Ms. Richey, nominated for
Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the Department of
Education. Ms. Richey brings extensive experience from previous
Administrations and state agencies, addressing discriminatory
practices in K through 12 schools and universities nationwide.
This experience is especially important as the
Administration works to address troubling Antisemitism on
college campuses. Next, the Committee is considering Mr.
Aronowitz, nominated to lead the Employee Benefits Security
Administration at the Department of Labor.
If confirmed, Mr. Aronowitz is committed to improving
health and retirement benefits for workers, including
independent contractors. His decades of legal experience and
knowledge of ERISA will be an asset to this mission. Last, the
Committee will hear from Mr. Keeling, nominated to head the
Occupational Safety and Health Administration, better known as
OSHA.
Mr. Keeling spent 30 years advocating for worker safety in
the private sector and has strong support from businesses and
from labor unions. If confirmed, he committed to ensuring OSHA
regulations reflect what is best for workers, not biased toward
one party over the other.
Thank you again to all our witnesses for appearing before
the Committee. And with that, I recognize Senator Baldwin for
her opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BALDWIN
Senator Baldwin. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Cassidy.
And thank you to our nominees for being here today. Mr.
Chairman, we are holding this hearing today as the Trump
administration makes daily attacks on public education, worker
safety, and retirement security.
The nominees before us today will undoubtedly be tasked
with carrying out the Administration's dangerous agenda to
remove worker safety protections, rescind rules that protect
retirees and those who are nearing retirement, dismantle the
entire Department of Education, and undercut Civil Rights
protections for historically marginalized groups.
The nominees themselves may have different goals, if they
are confirmed, but the actions taken by the Trump
administration so far and the budget requests for the
Department of Education and Labor submitted to Congress make
clear exactly what they will be instructed to do in their
roles.
I am deeply concerned by the Administration's approach at
the Department of Labor. This Administration claims to be pro-
worker, but their actions demonstrate the opposite. They are
paying lip service to hardworking Americans while enacting an
agenda to decimate their rights, protections, and hard-earned
benefits.
The Occupational Safety and Health Administration, or OSHA,
is predicting it will inspect almost 10,000 fewer workplaces
next year than it inspected in 2024 if the Administration's
budget cuts were fully enacted. Reducing the number of
inspections leads to more unsafe environments, more injuries,
and more families facing the uncertainty that comes from losing
hours at a job or dealing with a work injury.
Mr. Keeling is being nominated to be at the helm of OSHA as
this happens. The Employee Benefit Security Administration, or
EBSA, has already lost roughly 30 percent of its staff since
the beginning of 2025, 30 percent, with those losses
concentrated in the Enforcement Division, the office that
protects consumers as they navigate health and retirement
plans.
EBSA overseas private retirement plans, health plans, and
other benefits, which collectively hold about $14 trillion in
assets. These plans cover 156 million workers, retirees, and
their dependents. Slashing the staff who ensure these plans are
following the law and are working in consumers' best interests
helps no one except the corporations who can more easily cut
corners, harming workers and retirees.
Mr. Aronowitz has been nominated to lead a much diminished
EBSA. The Trump administration's attacks on the Department of
Education began during his first week in office. The Trump
administration has laid off nearly half of the staff at the
Department of Education, leading to more delays and
inefficiencies that are directly harming students and schools.
The Administration has also terminated funding that
Congress appropriated for programs intended to benefit
students' resources that were already in use in communities in
Wisconsin and elsewhere, pulling the rug out from plans to use
that money for summer learning, after school tutoring, and
teacher training.
Earlier this week, I pushed Secretary McMahon on her
decision to discontinue grants to expand access to mental
health care for students, which Congress authorized and funded
on a bipartisan basis. Ms. Schwinn, the nominee to be Deputy
Secretary of Education, will be tasked with overseeing the
Department of Education's implementation of Federal education
laws, and I expect these laws to be implemented as intended.
Ms. Richey, the nominee to be Assistant Secretary of
Education for Civil Rights, is nominated to lead an office that
is currently engaged in a troubling trend of halting cases of
discrimination based on race, gender, and disability, while
opening a slew of what appear to be politically motivated
investigations into schools, districts, and universities.
Just as the Office of Civil Rights received its highest
ever volume of complaints last year, the department closed 7 of
its 12 regional offices and fired nearly 300 Office of Civil
Rights staff this year.
Investigators have seen their caseloads skyrocket from 42
cases per investigator to 115, making it difficult for those
investigators to meaningfully investigate discrimination and to
protect students' rights.
Mr. Chairman, I am glad we have the opportunity to hear
from these nominees, but I think we should all be concerned
that the Administration's actions and budgets demonstrate how
little they care--little care they have for doing right by
these students, teachers, and workers, and retirees.
The Chairman. Thank you. I will introduce each nominee just
prior to he or she speaking. So I will begin with Ms. Schwinn.
We are joined today by Ms. Penny--Dr. Penny Schwinn, President
Trump's nominee for Deputy Secretary of Education.
If confirmed, Dr. Schwinn will help to lead the department
as it works to deliver results for children and families and
return authority over education back to the states. She
previously served as Commissioner of Education in Texas, where
she served as Chief Deputy Commissioner.
She holds a Ph.D. from Claremont Graduate School. I look
forward to hearing from her today and thank you for joining us,
Dr. Schwinn.
STATEMENT OF PENNY SCHWINN, NASHVILLE, TN
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you, Chairman--thank you Chairman
Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and Members of the Committee.
It is an honor to appear before you as a nominee for Deputy
Secretary of Education.
I am grateful for the support of my family, friends, and
former colleagues. Want to take the opportunity to especially
thank my three children, Ellie, Abby, and Jack, who couldn't be
here today.
My daughter is in the National Soccer Championship in St.
Louis, so they are on their way there. She is a goalie. I am a
goalie mom. Toughest job.
The Chairman. You are not there. I am just saying, mom,
feel guilty.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for the mom guilt, yes. I am not
there, but I will be flying there as soon as possible. I also
want to thank my family, the Hemian Gang back in Gilroy,
California, and most importantly DC and my mom who is behind me
right now and has been for 42 years, a classroom teacher, and
the reason that I am here today.
From the moment I got to speak with each of them for our
in-person interviews, I have been continually grateful to
Donald J. Trump and Secretary McMahon for the confidence they
have placed in me and for the ambitious vision they are casting
for the future of America's education system.
Education is foundational to our Nation's success,
economically, socially, and strategically. It is also deeply
personal. I come from a family of teachers, and for us,
education isn't just a profession, it is a calling.
I began as a High School Teacher, and have served as a
Charter School Founder, an Assistant Superintendent, elected
School Board Member, and State Chief across five very different
states. But I am also a mom, and it is through that lens that I
feel the most urgency and responsibility to deliver better
outcomes for every child in this country.
After 20 plus years in education, I have learned that the
most significant difference between policies that work and
policies that don't is that those that work elevate the needs
of students over the needs of systems. We are in a moment of
crisis.
According to the Nation's report card, just 31 percent of
fourth graders and 30 percent of eighth graders are proficient
in reading. In math, only 40 percent of fourth graders and 28
percent of eight graders are proficient.
Reading scores have dropped five points since 2019, and
math remains below pre-pandemic levels. These numbers are not
just statistics. They represent millions of students who are
falling behind and a global economy that can't afford it.
The U.S. already faces a shortage of 1.7 million workers.
Education is not a side issue. It is a national imperative. And
we know what works is what delivers results. When states are
empowered, we see progress.
In Tennessee, we achieved real outcomes because we had the
flexibility to tailor solutions. Rather than being bound by
rigid funding categories, we prioritized what mattered most for
our students, and it worked. Tennessee became one of only two
states to rank in the top 25 on all 16 NAEP indicators.
Our statewide literacy gains, fueled by training 30,000
teachers, supporting 178,000 families, and aligning teacher
prep with the science of reading, led to the highest growth in
English language arts standards since the adoption of new
standards. We didn't stop there. 100,000 students gained access
to industry credentials, dual credit programs, and
apprenticeships.
Dual enrollment in technical colleges rose by 71 percent.
We tripled STEM school designations and mandated K-12 computer
science, closed gaps in AP courses. We also made smart use of
our ESSER funds. Georgetown University's Economics Lab found
that Tennessee was--one of just six states with measurable
returns on investment based on NAEP. And that didn't happen by
accident.
It was the result of prioritizing students, trusting local
leadership, and focusing relentlessly on results. None of that
would have been possible without Tennessee's incredible
parents, teachers, school leaders, elected officials, and
community partners. That legacy belongs to them.
I was honored to serve, but the results came from local
action, shared responsibility, and accountability. They made
the work real. And that spirit of shared ownership and local
excellence is the path forward. The President and Secretary
have been clear. We must empower states, expand choice, and
raise reading outcomes.
I am honored to support that mission, not just as a
policymaker, but as a mom, as a teacher, and a lifelong
believer in what is possible for our children. I will never
forget the students in my mom's classroom, still learning to
read in the fourth and fifth grades. That was nearly 35 years
ago. Too little has changed.
We owe it to them to finally keep our promise. I pledge to
tirelessly work for them and for every other one of the 50
million students in this country. Thank you for your
consideration, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Schwinn follows.]
prepared statement of penny schwinn
Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and Members of
the Committee. It's an honor to appear before you as a nominee for
Deputy Secretary of Education. I am grateful for the support of my
family, friends and former colleagues. And I am grateful to President
Donald J. Trump and Secretary McMahon for the confidence they've placed
in me and for the ambitious vision they are casting for the future of
America's education system.
Education is foundational to our Nation's success--economically,
socially, and strategically. It is also deeply personal. I come from a
family of teachers, and for us, education isn't just a profession--it's
a calling. I began as a high school teacher and have served as a
charter school founder, assistant superintendent, elected board member,
and state chief across five very different states--and I'm also a mom.
And it's through that lens that I feel the most urgency and
responsibility to deliver better outcomes for every child in this
country.
After 20 plus years in education, I've learned that the most
significant difference between policies that work and policies that do
not work is that those that work elevate the needs of students over the
needs of systems.
We are in a moment of crisis. According to the Nation's Report
Card, just 31 percent of fourth graders and 30 percent of eighth
graders are proficient in reading. In math, only 40 percent of fourth
graders and 28 percent of eighth graders are proficient. Reading scores
have dropped five points since 2019, and math remains below pre-
pandemic levels. These numbers are not just statistics--they represent
millions of students who are falling behind in a global economy that
can't afford it. The U.S. already faces a shortage of 1.7 million
workers. Education is not a side issue--it's a national imperative.
What works is what delivers results. When states are empowered, we
see progress. In Tennessee, we achieved real outcomes because we had
the flexibility to tailor solutions. Rather than being bound by rigid
funding categories, we prioritized what mattered most for our students.
It worked. Tennessee became one of only two states to rank in the
top 25 on all 16 NAEP indicators. Our statewide literacy gains--fueled
by training 30,000 educators, supporting 178,000 families, and aligning
teacher prep with the science of reading--led to the highest growth in
English Language Arts since the adoption of new standards. We didn't
stop there: 100,000 students gained access to industry credentials,
dual credit, and apprenticeships. Dual enrollment in technical colleges
rose 71 percent. We tripled STEM school designations, mandated K-12
computer science, and closed key gaps in AP outcomes.
We also made smart use of ESSER funds. Georgetown University's
Edunomics Lab found Tennessee was one of just four states with a
measurable return on investment. That didn't happen by accident. It was
the result of prioritizing students, trusting local leadership, and
focusing relentlessly on results.
If we want to change these numbers, we must be willing to measure
them. That starts with strong assessments and honest accountability. We
must continue to raise the bar and give families clear, accurate
information about how their children are doing--where they are
excelling and where we, as adults, must do better. If we're serious
about outcomes, we must be serious about measuring them. Assessment is
not about bureaucracy--it's about truth. And families deserve the
truth.
None of that would have been possible without Tennessee's
incredible parents, teachers, school leaders, elected officials, and
community partners. This legacy belongs to them. I was honored to
serve, but the results came from local action, shared responsibility,
and accountability. They made the work real. And that spirit of shared
ownership and local excellence is the path forward.
The President and Secretary have made clear: we must empower
states, expand choice, and raise reading outcomes. I am honored to
support that mission--not just as a policymaker, but as a mom, a
teacher, and a lifelong believer in what's possible for our children.
I will never forget the students I met in my mother's classroom--
still learning to read in the fourth and fifth grades. That was nearly
35 years ago. Too little has changed. We owe it to them to finally keep
our promise.
I pledge to work tirelessly--for them, and for every student in
this country.
Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your questions.
______
The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Schwinn. We are also joined
today by Kimberly Richey, President Trump's nominee for the
Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights at the Department of
Education.
If confirmed, Ms. Richey will lead the office that is
responsible for addressing civil rights complaints from
students in classrooms and on college campuses, including the
backlog of Title VI complaints left unaddressed by the Biden
administration.
She has experience in the Office of Civil Rights, having
also served there during the George W. Bush and first Trump
administrations. She earned her law degree at the University of
Oklahoma. I look forward to hearing from you today, and thank
you for joining us, Ms. Richey.
STATEMENT OF KIMBERLY RICHEY, TALLAHASSEE, FL
Ms. Richey. Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and
honorable Members of this Committee, I am grateful and honored
to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee to lead
the Office for Civil Rights.
I want to thank President Trump and Secretary McMahon for
their support and the opportunity to continue OCR's critically
important work. I want to thank my family. Their love, prayers,
and support have strengthened and sustained me. My husband, Dr.
Larry Birney, who is here with me today.
My parents, David and Arlene Richey, who are also here. My
sister and brother-in-law, Dr. Jeffrey and Kelley Lind. And my
greatest gifts of all, Pearce, Anna, and Ella May. While I am a
teacher and an attorney, I am first and foremost the daughter
of a retired 34-year public school teacher who taught me the
innate obligation and the importance of speaking up for those
who have no voice and seeking justice for those to whom it has
been denied.
I know from my nearly 7 years in OCR the vital role it
plays for so many students and families across our great
nation. Students cannot gain the knowledge and skills they need
to be successful in life if they can't access educational
programs and activities.
Secretary McMahon highlighted in her confirmation hearing
the significant challenges that we are facing and reiterated a
commitment to addressing these challenges. She stated, we must
protect all students from discrimination and harassment.
If I am confirmed, the department will not stand idly by
while Jewish students are attacked and discriminated against.
We will stop forcing schools to let boys and men into female
sports and spaces.
My commitment to these priorities is unwavering. Should I
be confirmed, I will proudly be joining an Administration that
will not allow students to be intimidated, harassed, assaulted,
or excluded from their institutions. I will work every day to
uphold Title VI, including vigorously fighting Antisemitism,
and require schools to address these great evils.
I will also fight to preserve the rights of women and girls
as they try to access education programs and activities, and
facilities free from discrimination. Throughout my 21 year
career, I have worked to increase outcomes and advance civil
right protections for students, whether it be securing services
for students in day treatment programs, providing
accommodations to students in state assessment systems, or
setting up a charter school for students in the juvenile
justice system, or creating a way for Native American students
to receive world language credit for learning their native
language.
During my tenure as Acting Assistant Secretary in the
Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services, OSER
issued guidance clarifying the obligations of school districts
in light of the Supreme Court's groundbreaking decision in
Andrew F. We also concluded what was at the time the largest
investigation involving a state under IDEA.
Under my leadership as Acting Assistant Secretary of Civil
Rights, OCR investigated and pursued enforcement action to
protect and preserve the rights of women and girls in athletic
cases involving biological males. We launched multiple directed
investigations examining the special education services that
were provided to students in the COVID-19 pandemic.
We provided technical assistance to schools implementing
the 2020 Title IX regulations. We issued guidance on racial
discrimination, single sex programs, and on OCR's enforcement
and use of Title VI to protect Jewish students from
discrimination.
As impactful as I view these and other accomplishments, it
is my personal story as a student with a disability and now an
individual with disabilities that most impacts my work. As a
young adult, I was diagnosed with a brain tumor that changed
nearly every aspect of my life.
Within a matter of months, I was a student who needed the
protections of 504 to access my own programs and activities in
school. I know firsthand the significance and the importance of
our civil rights laws, and there is no greater work than
leading an agency responsible for ensuring that students get
the services they need.
I am committed to upholding the laws enforced by OCR,
prioritizing the mission of OCR, and conducting thorough
investigations consistent with the law and the authority that
Congress has granted to OCR.
Sitting in this seat today, I feel blessed that exactly 20
years since I had my brain tumor removed, I now have the
opportunity to lead the very office responsible for enforcing
the laws that protected me. If I am fortunate enough to be
confirmed, that appreciation and that mindset will guide me
every day in this job, just as it has for the last 20 years.
Thank you for considering my nomination and for the
opportunity to be here today. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Richey follows.]
prepared statement of kimberly richey
Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and Members of this
Committee.
I am grateful and honored to appear before you today as President
Trump's nominee to lead the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) at the U.S.
Department of Education. I want to thank President Trump and Secretary
McMahon for their support and the opportunity to continue OCR's
critically important work.
I want to thank my loving family, for whom I'm very grateful. Their
love, prayers, and support have strengthened and sustained me: my
husband, Dr. Larry Birney; my parents, David and Arlene Richey; my
sister and brother-in-law, Dr. Jeffrey and Kelley Lind; and, finally,
my greatest gifts, Pearce, Anna, and Ella Mae.
I'm also appreciative of the role so many others have played in my
life; my extended and church-family, friends, teachers, and current and
former colleagues who have emboldened and challenged me throughout the
years.
While I am a teacher and an attorney, I am first and foremost the
daughter of a retired thirty-four-year public school teacher who taught
me the innate obligation and importance of speaking up for those who
have no voice and seeking justice for those to whom it has been denied
(Proverbs 31:8-9). I know from my nearly 7 years of service in OCR the
vital role it plays for so many students and families across our great
nation. Students cannot gain the knowledge or skills they need to be
successful in life if they are unable to access educational programs
and activities.
Secretary McMahon highlighted, in her confirmation hearing, the
significant challenges we are facing and reiterated a commitment to
addressing these challenges. She stated:
``We must protect all students from discrimination and
harassment. If I am confirmed, the Department will not stand
idly by while Jewish students are attacked and discriminated
against. We will stop forcing schools to let boys and men into
female sports and spaces.''
My commitment to these priorities is unwavering. Should I be
confirmed as Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights, I will proudly be
joining an administration that will not allow students to be
intimidated, harassed, assaulted or excluded from their institutions. I
will work every day to uphold Title VI, including vigorously fighting
anti-Semitism, and require schools to address these great evils. I will
also fight to preserve the rights of women and girls to access
education programs and facilities free from discrimination.
I bring over twenty-one years of experience in Federal and state
government, and working with local school districts, colleges, and
education non-profits. Throughout my career, I've worked to increase
student outcomes and advance civil rights protections, whether it be
securing services for students enrolled in day treatment programs,
providing accommodations to students in state assessments, setting up a
charter school for students in the juvenile justice system, or creating
a way for Native American students to receive world language credit for
learning their native language.
During my tenure as Acting Assistant Secretary in the U.S.
Department of Education's Office of Special Education and
Rehabilitative Services (OSERS), OSERS issued guidance clarifying the
obligations of school districts in light of the Supreme Court's ground-
breaking decision in the Endrew F. case, which held, in short, that
IEP's must be reasonably calculated to ensure a child makes meaningful
progress. We also concluded what was, at the time, the largest
investigation involving a state conducted under the Individuals with
Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).
Under my leadership as Acting Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights,
OCR investigated cases and pursued enforcement action to protect and
preserve the rights of women and girls in athletic cases involving
transgender students. We launched multiple directed investigations
examining the provision of special education and related services to
students with disabilities during the COVID-19 pandemic, provided
technical assistance and issued guidance to assist schools in
implementing President Trump's 2020 Title IX regulations, and issued
guidance on racial discrimination, single-sex programs in post-
secondary, and guidance on OCR's enforcement of Title VI to protect
Jewish students from discrimination.
As impactful as I view these and so many other accomplishments,
especially in OCR, it is my personal experience as a student with a
disability--and now an individual with disabilities--that most impacts
my work. As a young adult, I was diagnosed with a brain tumor that
changed nearly every aspect of my life. Within a matter of months, I
was a student who needed the protections and guarantees of Section 504
to fully access my own educational programs and activities. I know
first-hand the significance and importance of our civil rights laws and
there is no greater work than leading the agency responsible for
ensuring that students get the services and support they need.
I am committed to upholding the laws OCR enforces and prioritizing
the important mission of OCR to enforce civil rights laws and conduct
thorough investigations, consistent with the law and the authority
Congress has conferred upon the agency. Sitting in this seat today, I
feel blessed that exactly twenty-years since I had my brain tumor
removed, I now have the opportunity to lead the very office responsible
for enforcing the laws that protected me. If I am fortunate enough to
be confirmed, that appreciation and mindset will continue to guide my
work, every day, as it has for so many years.
Thank you for considering my nomination and for the opportunity to
be here today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have.
______
The Chairman. Thank you. We are also joined today by Daniel
Aronowitz, President Trump's nominee for Assistant Secretary of
the Employee Benefits Security Administration of the Department
of Labor.
If confirmed, Mr. Aronowitz will lead the agency that is
responsible for overseeing more than 801,000 private retirement
plans, 2.6 million health plans, and 514,000 other welfare
benefit plans, which collectively hold about $14 trillion in
assets.
He is an attorney with decades of private sector experience
as a coverage lawyer and underwriter and deep knowledge of
ERISA. He is a graduate of, I always hate to say this, but the
Ohio State University and the Vanderbilt University School of
Law.
I look forward to hearing from him today. Thank you for
joining us, Mr. Aronowitz.
STATEMENT OF DANIEL ARONOWITZ, VIENNA, VA
Mr. Aronowitz. Thank you, Chairman Cassidy and the Members
of the HELP Committee. Thank you for considering my nomination
to lead the Employee Benefits Security Administration. I also
thank President Trump, Secretary Chavez DeRemer, and Deputy
Secretary Sonderling for nominating me.
My name is Daniel Aronowitz, and I am supported today by my
wife Jeanine, my 17 year old daughter Amanda, and my 15-year
old son Isaiah. My former Euclid business partner and mentor,
John Colas, is also supporting me today. I have been a champion
of employee benefit plans my entire career.
After graduating from Ohio State and Vanderbilt School of
Law, I started my career as a management liability insurance
lawyer. I then led a turnaround at the union-owned Ulico
Casualty Company, where we helped grow the union movement by
protecting multi-employer and Governmental plans and union
workers and helped to launch training and apprenticeship
programs with innovative group workers' compensation captives.
In 2011, I then founded Euclid Fiduciary. Now called Encore
Fiduciary, my former team built a premier fiduciary insurance
underwriting company that is known for unique fiduciaries
thought leadership, including the FID Guru blog, which is read
by thousands of planned professionals.
Encore ensures the most sophisticated and complex benefit
plans in America, ranging from leading Fortune 500 companies to
innovative new pooled employer plans, and association health
plans.
In these roles, I witnessed the most important fiduciary
events in the last three decades, including the Enron and
WorldCom scandals, the capital consultants and Madoff Ponzi
schemes, the city of Detroit bankruptcy, and the 2008 financial
crisis. I have participated in hundreds of Department of Labor,
PBGC, and Internal Revenue Service audits.
My job, my mission was to protect planned fiduciaries and
planned assets to ensure and safeguard the accounts of every
planned participant and worker insured by my company's
fiduciary crime and cyber insurance policies.
I have participated in settlements and payouts that have
restored well over $1 billion to protect the retirement
security of America's workers. From these experiences, I have
learned how to improve America's voluntary employee benefit
system. I was a lawyer. I led a corporate turnaround, and then
I led a successful startup.
If I am confirmed by the Senate, I will work hard to
unleash and unlock the creativity and full potential of
America's employee benefit system. But none of this will happen
until we improve EBSA's enforcement and provide regulatory
clarity on key fiduciary issues. EBSA needs a major turnaround,
and I am an experienced turnaround manager with unique
fiduciaries expertise and experience.
First, we will end the practice of open-ended
investigations that go on for years. We will end bias against
ESOPs and other legitimate ways to expand retirement benefits
and ownership to America's workers. EBSA's enforcement will be
fair, even-handed, and efficient. Second, we will strive to
provide regulatory clarity so that plan sponsors have the
proper incentive to expand employee benefits.
Many issues, like mental health parity, private equity,
cryptocurrency, and ESG considerations in plan investments
require more clarity and consistency with less burden to plan
sponsors. We will end the era of regulation by litigation by
providing clear and effective fiduciary guidance.
We will restore discretion to plan fiduciaries as Congress
intended in the ERISA statute, so that fiduciaries, not the
Government or plaintiff lawyers, decide what is best for
America's participants. Third and finally, I will champion the
cause of encouraging plan sponsors, once we give them even-
handed enforcement and regulatory clarity, to expand retirement
and healthcare benefits to America's workers.
With the regulatory burden and litigation risk reduced, we
will unlock the full potential of the voluntary employee
benefit system. Thank you for considering my nomination. I want
to get to work into what I consider the best job in the Federal
Government. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Aronowitz follows.]
prepared statement of daniel aronowitz
Thank you Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and Members of
the HELP Committee. Thank you for considering my nomination to lead the
Employee Benefit Security Administration. I also thank President Trump,
Secretary Chavez-DeRemer, and Deputy Secretary Sonderling for
nominating me.
My name is Daniel Aronowitz, and I am supported today by my wife
Jeanine Aronowitz; my 17-year-old daughter Amanda, who is a student at
The New School in Fairfax, Virginia; and my 15-year-old son Isaiah, who
attends New Focus Academy in Heber City, Utah.
I have been a champion of employee benefit plans my entire career.
I have lived the American dream of starting, leading, and building
great businesses in the fiduciary arena. I am now ready to give back to
my country, drawing on my unique private industry experience, to
protect and enhance the retirement and health security of America's
workers.
After graduating from Ohio State University on a Rotary scholarship
and from Vanderbilt School of Law, I spent the first part of my career
representing management liability insurance companies as a lawyer,
including as a partner at Shaw Pittman, one of DC's leading law firms.
I then had the privilege to lead a turn-around of the union-owned
Ullico Casualty Company. At Ullico, my team built the Nation's leading
fiduciary insurance market to protect multiemployer and governmental
trustees and benefit plans. We developed insurance products to help
grow the labor movement, with innovative workers' compensation captives
to support union apprenticeship programs and training centers, and
surety bonds to grow unionized construction projects.
I next founded Euclid Fiduciary in 2011, which our team grew from a
startup to become a premier fiduciary liability underwriting company.
Now called Encore Fiduciary, my former company protects the most
sophisticated and complex employee benefit plans in the country,
including Fortune 500 companies, leading union and governmental plans,
and innovative MEWAs and association health plans that are expanding
employee benefit access to a new generation of the independent
workforce. We built our underwriting company on superior fiduciary
expertise and thought leadership, with our Fid Guru Blog read by
thousands of benefit plan professionals. We then sold our underwriting
company to the largest private equity insurance firm in the country. We
lived the American dream of building a company from scratch and
monetizing our efforts. And every Euclid employee participated in the
financial reward of our successful exit.
I have participated in the most important fiduciary events in the
last three decades, including the Enron and WorldCom scandals, the
Capital Consultants and Madoff Ponzi schemes, the city of Detroit
bankruptcy, and the 2008 financial crisis. I have participated in
hundreds of Department of Labor, PBGC, and Internal Revenue Service
audits. My job--my mission--was to protect plan fiduciaries and plan
assets to ensure and safeguard the accounts of every plan participant
and worker insured by my company's fiduciary, crime and cyber insurance
policies. I have participated in settlements and payouts that have
restored well over one billion dollars to protect the retirement
security of American workers.
I have learned from all of these experiences: I was a lawyer; I led
a corporate turn-around; and then I led a successful startup. It has
given me unique insights into how to better protect and expand the
retirement and health security of American workers. I have learned how
to improve the enforcement capabilities of EBSA. Most importantly, I
have learned the key issues that have stifled the potential of the
employee benefit system, including limitations in the Employee
Retirement Income Security Act.
If I am confirmed by the Senate and am given the privilege and
opportunity to lead EBSA, I will work hard every day to unleash and
unlock the creativity and full potential of America's employee benefit
system. EBSA needs a major turn-around, and I am an experienced turn-
around manager with unique fiduciary expertise and experience. I have
three goals if given the opportunity to lead EBSA:
First, I will improve EBSA's enforcement of fiduciary law. We will
end the practice of open-ended investigations that go on for years. We
will end the bias against ESOPs and other legitimate ways to expand
retirement benefits and ownership to America's workers. And we will end
the regulatory abuse of common-interest agreements with plaintiff
lawyers. EBSA's enforcement will be fair, even-handed, and efficient.
Second, I will strive to provide regulatory clarity so that plan
sponsors have the proper incentive to expand employee benefits. There
are many issues that require regulatory clarity and stability so that
the system can function properly, including (1) modernizing defined
contributions plans to include alternative investments, such as private
equity and cryptocurrency; (2) the consideration of ESG-factors; (3)
the fiduciary rule as applied to IRA rollovers; (4) mental health
parity; (5) plan forfeitures; (6) pension risk transfers; (7) tobacco
and vaccine surcharges and wellness programs; (8) managing pharmacy
benefit managers and health-care costs; and (9) cybersecurity to
protect participants assets--just to name a few key issues. We will end
the era of regulation by litigation by providing clear and effective
rules for America's employee benefit system. We will restore discretion
to plan fiduciaries as Congress intended in the ERISA statute, so that
fiduciaries, not the government or plaintiff lawyers, decide what is
best for plan participants.
Third, I will champion the cause of encouraging plan sponsors--once
we give them even-handed enforcement and regulatory clarity--to expand
retirement and health care benefits to America's workers. I will
champion expanding retirement and health plan access to America's
independent contractor workforce, which includes association health
plans. I will also champion the cause of better mental health benefits
to America's workers. But none of this will happen until we provide
regulatory clarity and eliminate the ERISA litigation abuse that is
turning benefit plans into liability traps. I also look forward to
working with Congress for legislative changes needed to end litigation
abuse, and to meet the challenges of the modern economy and workforce,
including the coming wave of artificial intelligence and its impact on
American workers.
Thank you for considering my nomination and how I can use my unique
management and fiduciary experience to improve the employee benefit
system. I want to get to work in what I consider the best job in the
Federal Government.
______
The Chairman. Thank you, sir. Last, we are joined today by
David Keeling, President Trump's nominee for Assistant
Secretary of Occupational Health and Health--Occupational
Safety and Health Administration, or OSHA, of the Department of
Labor.
If confirmed, Mr. Keeling will lead the agency that is
responsible for ensuring safe workplaces for American workers.
He started his career as a part-time package handler and worked
his way up to leading workplace safety efforts for significant
employers.
He is a graduate of the University of Louisville. We look
forward to hearing from you today, sir, and thank you for
joining us.
STATEMENT OF DAVID KEELING, LOUISVILLE, KY
Mr. Keeling. Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member
Sanders, and esteemed Members of this Committee. I am honored
to appear before you today as a nominee for Assistant Secretary
of Labor, overseeing the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration. I want to express my deepest gratitude to
President Donald J. Trump and Secretary Lori Chavez DeRemer for
entrusting me with this significant responsibility.
It is a privilege to be considered for the role that plays
such a crucial part in serving our Nation, our workers, and our
citizens. On a personal note, I would like to thank my family,
friends, and colleagues for their support.
My amazing wife, best friend and rock, Jamie Walker
Keeling, my son Charles, and daughter Bethany. Everyone has a
why. Why they get up in the morning, why we try harder each
day, and why we care about making the world a better place.
These three are my why. I would also like to thank my
parents, James David Keeling, Charlotte Crouch Keeling, and
sister Becky Meade, as well as members of the Keeling Crouch
Walker and Meade families who are here with us today or are
sending prayers my way. God blessed me with a remarkable
family.
My outlook on life is in no small way a result of those two
sets of loving parents and grandparents, James Hurdleen and
Geneva Jenkins Keeling, Stanley and Evelyn Wilkerson Crouch,
four angels who will ever be on my shoulder. Throughout my
nearly 40 years in occupational safety and health, I have
dedicated myself to ensuring that every worker goes home to the
loved ones, healthy and whole at the end of each day.
This passion was influenced by the death of my uncle,
Lonnie Crouch, who died in a farming accident at the age of 17.
I never had the opportunity to know my uncle, but the pain of
his death caused--because of the pain his death, his name
wasn't used every day. However, his loss is always there at my
grandparents' house, an empty chair always present at the
dinner table.
In my time as a safety professional at UPSer for 37 years
and a Teamster, I came to understand that nothing is more
beneficial than collaboration between employees and employers.
I have had the opportunity and responsibility to walk on far
more concrete than carpet in my career. I have learned that the
best source of safety improvement originates with the people
who perform the job every day.
These experiences have equipped me with a deep
understanding of the challenges we face and importance of
collaboration, transparency, and integrity. I want to take a
moment to commend the dedicated career employees at OSHA, both
past and present. I want to assure them that their passion is
recognized and that they are greatly respected by their
industry peers.
I also want to reassure them that great opportunity lies in
front of us. I believe that we have reached a crossroads in
terms of OSHA's future in direction. My fear is that OSHA is at
risk of losing its position as leadership in global health and
safety space, not because of any failure on part of OSHA's
people, but because of outdated systems and processes that have
resisted past Administrations' efforts at common sense
improvement. If confirmed, my goals are straightforward and
simple.
First, I hope not only to continue, but greatly accelerate
the pace of modernization in the area of regulatory oversight
and rulemaking, bringing to bear technologies and predictive
analytics, which move beyond simple regulatory compliance and
post-injury response to injury prevention through informed
design.
We must take advantage of existing global industry
consensus standards, which have gone through much more rigorous
review, regular updating, and continuous improvement than have
many of OSHA's existing rules. It will not come as a surprise
to this Committee that many of OSHA's existing standards have
become antiquated or unusable in the face of modernization or
technological advancements within the workplace.
Second, expanding OSHA's leadership in the areas of
cooperation and collaboration between professional groups,
companies, and unions. We all want the same thing, although we
differ sometimes on what the best road is to get there. We must
move beyond existing silos and self-imposed barriers to achieve
real improvement. Further, we must modernize and update
existing voluntary protection programs.
The current VPP programs provide a basic platform, but it
is only a start. Critical work needs to be done in this area to
achieve successful outcomes. I truly believe that greatness in
employee and health and safety is worth pursuing. My third and
final goal relates to OSHA enforcement transformation.
Technology exists today which wasn't available to OSHA when
it was really put into place in the 1970's. We now have the
ability to use existing data to greatly enhance onsite safety
efforts through predictive analytics.
We must engage at-risk employers and employees through
proactive risk mitigation and reduction programs before a work
site tragedy has taken place or a fatality has occurred. We
should never get to the work site after it is too late. If
confirmed, I am committed to working with each of you so that
no family sits down at the dinner table with an empty chair.
I believe that by working with this Committee and the
stakeholders across the ideological spectrum, we can achieve
real and meaningful progress, and I hope to achieve these goals
with your help. I welcome the opportunity to address your
questions and discuss how my vision aligns with priorities of
this Committee and constituent workforces we serve.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to the
discussion.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Keeling follows.]
prepared statement of david keeling
Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and esteemed
Members of the Committee. I am honored to appear before you today as
the nominee for Assistant Secretary of Labor overseeing the
Occupational Safety and Health Administration. I want to express my
deepest gratitude to President Donald J. Trump and Secretary of Labor
Lori Chavez DeRemer for entrusting me with this significant
responsibility. It is a privilege to be considered for a role that
plays such a crucial part in serving our Nation, our workers and our
citizens.
On a personal note, I would like to thank my family, friends and
colleagues for their support. My amazing wife, best friend and rock,
Jamie Walker Keeling, my son Charles and daughter Bethany. Everyone has
a ``why'. Why we get up in the morning, why we try harder each day and
why we care about making the world around us a better place. These
three are my ``Why''.
I would also like to thank my parents James David Keeling,
Charlotte Crouch Keeling and sister Becky Meade as well as members of
the Keeling, Crouch, Walker and Meade families who are here with us
today or are sending prayers my way. God has blessed me with a
remarkable family. My outlook on life was in no small way a result of
two sets of loving grandparents; James Hertlein and Geneva Jenkins
Keeling; Stanley and Evelyn Wilkerson Crouch. Four angels who will
forever be on my shoulder.
Throughout my nearly 40 years in occupational safety and health, I
have dedicated myself to ensuring that every worker goes home to their
loved ones healthy and whole at the end of each day. This passion was
influenced by the death of my uncle; Lonny Crouch, who died in a
farming accident at the age of 17. I never had the opportunity to know
my uncle. Because of the pain his death caused, his name wasn't used
every day. However, his loss was always there in my grandparents'
house, an empty chair always present at their dinner table.
In my time as a safety professional, UPSer for 37 years, and
Teamster, I came to understand that nothing is more beneficial than
collaboration between employers and employees. I have had both the
opportunity and the responsibility to walk on far more concrete than
carpet in my career. I have learned that the best source of safety
improvements originates with the people who perform the job every day.
These experiences have equipped me with a deep understanding of the
challenges we face and the importance of collaboration, transparency,
and integrity.
I want to take a moment to commend the dedicated career employees
of OSHA both past and present. I want to assure them that their passion
is recognized and that they are greatly respected by their industry
peers. I also want to reassure them that great opportunity lies in
front of us.
I believe that we have reached a crossroad in terms of OSHA's
future and direction. My fear is that OSHA is at risk of losing its
position of leadership in the global health and safety space. Not
because of any failure on the part of OSHA's people, but because of
outdated systems and processes that have resisted past Administrators'
efforts at common sense improvement. If confirmed, my goals are
straightforward and simple.
First, I hope to not only continue, but greatly accelerate, the
pace of modernization in the area of ``Regulatory Oversight and
Rulemaking'', bringing to bare technology and predictive analytics,
which move beyond simple regulatory compliance and post-injury
response, to injury prevention through informed design. We must take
advantage of existing global industry consensus standards which have
gone through much more rigorous review, regular updating, and
continuous improvement than have many of OSHA's existing rules. It will
not come as a surprise to this Committee that many of OSHA's existing
standards have become antiquated or unusable in the face of job
modernization or technological advancements within the workplace.
Second, expanding OSHA's leadership in the areas of industry
``Cooperation and Collaboration'' between professional groups,
companies, and unions. We all want the same thing, although we sometime
differ on the best road to get there. We must move beyond existing
silos and self-imposed barriers to achieve real improvement. Further,
we must modernize and update existing Voluntary Protection Program's.
The current VPP programs provide a basic platform, but it is only a
start. Critical work needs to be done in this area to achieve
successful outcomes. I truly believe that greatness in employee safety
is worth pursuing.
My third and final goal relates to OSHA ``Enforcement
Transformation''. Technology exists today that wasn't available to us
when OSHA processes were originally put into place in the 1970's. We
now have the ability to use existing data to greatly enhance onsite
safety efforts through predictive analytics. We must engage at-risk
employers and employees through proactive risk mitigation and reduction
programs before a worksite tragedy has taken place or fatality as
occurred. We should never get to a worksite after it is too late.
If confirmed, I am committed to working with each of you so that no
family sits down to dinner at a table with an empty chair. I believe
that by working with this Committee and stakeholders across the
ideological spectrum, we can achieve real and meaningful progress, and
hopefully achieve these goals.
I welcome the opportunity to address your questions and to discuss
how my vision aligns with the priorities of this Committee and the
constituent workforces we serve.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to our discussion.
______
The Chairman. Thank you. I will begin. Dr. Schwinn, when
President Trump nominated you, he said that ``you have a strong
record of delivering results for children and families and are
committed to delivering the American dream to the next
generation by returning education back to the states.''
Very quickly, because I have limited time, the President
trusts your leadership and judgment. Tell me why you think he
selected you to be the Deputy Secretary of Education and be
concise.
Ms. Schwinn. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I
met with the President, he said he wanted a strong outcomes
oriented conservative education leader who shared his vision to
make the United States the No. 1 country in the world related
to student outcomes.
We talked about school choice, we talked about literacy,
and we talked about how to make America the highest performing.
And he looked at my track record on all of those issues, saw
that we had done incredible work in Tennessee, and what I could
do to take my management experience and make that real for 50
million children in this country.
The Chairman. Under this Administration, the department has
been very clear about efforts to make sure that Federal funding
does not support violations of Federal civil rights
protections, including the use of divisive race-based ideology,
the promotion of leftist ideology, and undermining parental
rights around abortion, sex education, and transgender issues.
If confirmed, can you commit that you are aligned with
President Trump's policy agenda on these issues? And please
elaborate on your record at the state and local level on these
issues.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
These were also issues that I discussed with the President and
also with Secretary McMahon. In Tennessee, to give specific
examples, under my tenure there, a number of laws and policies
were passed both by the Governor and the General Assembly.
We passed laws within that state looking at divisive
materials and ideologies in the classroom related to
instructional materials, as well as the implementation of those
laws. My responsibility was to implement the laws as passed,
something that I am very, very committed to in alignment--and
those laws were in alignment with President Trump's agenda and
the Executive Orders that have been put out.
My responsibility in my role as commissioner was to ensure
that, one, there was strong local authority so that local
communities, families, students had an opportunity to weigh in
on what was appropriate for their local communities. Two, they
had the opportunity to ensure that they had an appellate
process so that the state was there to ensure that the law was
being enforced as intended.
But three, the consequences for not following the law. In
Tennessee, those consequences, if you did not follow the law,
were pretty severe. If you refused to do that, it was a $1
million fine on the first infraction, up to $5 million and 10
percent of your state funds on the fifth infraction.
We took it very, very seriously in the state. That
continues to be the policy. And that is because we believe
very, very clearly that we need to teach the standards. We need
to make sure students are reading on grade level, able to do
math on grade-level, and empowered to do what they want to do
when they graduate from high school.
The Chairman. Okay. Then I will--this next and then we go
to you and doctor--and Ms. Richey, I am sorry. According to NIH
sponsored research, almost 20 percent of the population is
dyslexic, meaning they learn to read differently. And despite
it being the most prevalent specific learning disability,
students are rarely tested.
Now, studies have shown that children who suffer from
undiagnosed dyslexia have lifelong harm with lower career
ranges, reduced graduation rates, and increased rates of
incarceration. As the Department of Education streamlines
educational funding, how can we ensure that resources are there
to identify and address an issue, specifically speaking of
dyslexia?
Ms. Schwinn. If you don't mind, I will go ahead and speak
specifically to that. I couldn't agree more. Addressing
dyslexia at the earliest ages, especially characteristics of
dyslexia, is one of the most important things we can do to
ensure that our students are reading on grade level by that
critical third grade measure.
One of the things that we did in Tennessee was we included
characteristics of dyslexia in our education formula so that it
was funded as part of the special education disability
categories. We increased funding for special education
specifically to address that issue using existing state
funding.
No. 2 is we increased assessment to have that early
indication and warning. And I think one of the things that we
can do at the Federal level is to support all of our states and
territories with guidance on how they can empower themselves
from the laws and policies that work best within their local
communities.
Being able to share Mississippi, Louisiana, some of the
great work that has happened in Florida and Indiana, Tennessee.
Sharing those best practices to see how we actually grow at a
faster rate on areas like characteristics of dyslexia will be
incredibly important.
The Chairman. I am out of time, but I may come back, Ms.
Richey, at the end of--after. I don't want to hold other people
up.
Senator Baldwin.
Senator Baldwin. Thank you. Mr. Keeling, the Nation's
nurses face challenging working conditions that are too
frequently exacerbated by instances of workplace violence. It
is a financial issue for our healthcare system as well.
The American Hospital Association released a report just
this week that states hospitals spent more than $18 billion in
2023 on costs associated with managing workplace violence. We
had a chance to talk about workplace violence when we met
earlier this year, and I appreciated hearing that you take this
issue very seriously.
My Workplace Violence Prevention for Health Care and Social
Services Workers Act would address this issue through
Congressional action. And the Department of Labor currently
plans to issue a notice of proposed rulemaking in June, now
this month of this year, for the workplace violence in
healthcare rulemaking.
Do you commit to getting this proposed rule issued and
finalized as soon as you are confirmed?
Mr. Keeling. Senator Baldwin, thank you for that. And I do
appreciate the time we were able to spend in your office. Thank
you very much for that.
As I mentioned earlier, I actually have two family members
here today who are involved in home health care or health care
at facilities right now. So, absolutely. I see it as being an
opportunity for--massive opportunity for improvement, and I
look forward to working with your office on it.
Senator Baldwin. Thank you. Ms. Richey, in 2020, the
Supreme Court ruled in the Bostock v. Clayton County case that
the word sex in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act encompasses
protections based on sexual orientation and gender identity.
Justice Gorsuch wrote the opinion which ruled that it is
illegal to discriminate against someone in the workplace for
being gay or transgender.
The Department of Education released guidance in 2021 in
response to this opinion while you were serving as Acting
Assistant Secretary. In fact, I have a letter here that you
sent regarding a student's complaint where you stated, and I
quote, ``Title IX does not mention discrimination on the basis
of a student's sexual orientation.'' Both Title VII and Title
IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, yes?
Ms. Richey. That is correct, Senator. I think the language
is different.
Senator Baldwin. Do you still stand behind the Department
of Education's interpretation of Title IX while you were there
previously?
Ms. Richey. Senator, in order to answer that question, I
really need to provide the full answer and the full scope of
how the department implemented the Bostock opinion. It is a
little more complicated than that. May I have a moment to do
that?
Senator Baldwin. Well, I think your letter speaks for
itself. It says, Title IX does not mention discrimination on
the basis of a student's sexual orientation. This was a
complaint filed by a child based on discrimination in school
based on sexual orientation.
Ms. Richey. Senator, there are also two letters of
complaints that I did open following the Bostock opinion in
response to complaints that had been filed with OCR alleging
sexual orientation and gender identity.
We did take the Bostock analysis. We did identify a path
forward for applying Bostock to OCR cases in certain situations
and in certain circumstances. The only area where--under the
first term where we said that it did not apply consistent with
Bostock was in regards to athletics, to locker rooms, and to
restrooms. There was a path forward to apply Bostock in all
other cases.
Senator Baldwin. Is it accurate to say that you believe
that LGBTQ students do or do not have protections against
discrimination in schools? What is your position?
Ms. Richey. Senator, my position is that students who file
complaints with OCR alleging discrimination on the basis of
sexual orientation and gender identity, those cases would be
investigated by OCR consistent with Title IX, with the Bostock
case, and with OCR's regulations.
Senator Baldwin. Well, I want to just put for the record,
especially given your written comments on this earlier, that in
2021, the National School Climate Survey found that--I am
sorry, 58.9 percent of LGBTQ students experience discriminatory
policies or practices at school. And we know that LGBTQ kids
are four times more likely to attempt suicide than their peers.
These kids are in dire need of protection against
discrimination. If confirmed, I hope you will act in the best
interests of all children.
The Chairman. Coach Tuberville.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for all
of you willing to serve. It is a privilege to have you all
here. Dr. Schwinn, I wonder if people can give the definition
of national emergency. That is what we have in our education
system. It is pitiful. I have been in it 35 years, and it is
getting worse.
The last 4 years, we just brushed over the problems. Didn't
try to correct any. I would hope that you would be really
involved in this. Our kids can't read and write--the majority
of them. It is a disaster. It is a shame. It is criminal, to be
honest with you.
Would you please get that out of the classroom, because
kids can learn when they are looking at a text? I am sick of
hearing about we need those in the classroom. Let's take our
schools back.
We have given it over to the people that actually don't
want to educate our kids. So, thanks for your background in
educational agencies. And if confirmed, I hope you would assist
Secretary McMahon in executing at the more local level. Can you
address that?
Ms. Schwinn. Absolutely and thank you for that. I couldn't
agree more as the parent of a 13-year-old. So, absolutely, one
of the things that we did in Tennessee that I think was the
secret sauce and has been over a long period of time is that
locals know what is best for their communities and their
students.
Memphis, Tennessee, and Lake County, Tennessee are three to
4 hours apart and could not be more different. My home State of
California and my adopted home State of Tennessee could not be
more different. We need to make sure that locals are empowered
to make the best decisions for their students.
When the money is closest to the child, when the decisions
are closest to the child, we can best serve the child. And I am
completely aligned with Secretary McMahon to ensure that we can
help our states and our local communities to make the best
decisions for their students in their communities.
Senator Tuberville. School choice should be an option. I
have been in many inner city schools, and for some reason, a
lot of my colleagues do not want to educate kids in the inner
city. School choice is a--should be mandatory in a lot of our
inner cities, because they can't read and write. And if you
can't read and write, you cant take advantage of the greatest
country ever.
Ms. Richey, Title IX, Protection of Women and Girls in the
Sports Act is what I have been trying to get passed for years.
It makes no sense to me what is going on. I mean, we got a huge
problem if we can't define the difference of men playing in
women's sports. It is dangerous.
We all know that. I mean, it is something that we better
get it straight, because little girls aren't going to get into
sports, and we are not going to have women's sports 10, 15
years from now.
We have got entire high school teams that are made now of
transgender boys that can't figure out that they are not
supposed being that. That it is for women. What is your
thoughts on that?
Ms. Richey. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
I grew up playing basketball. I played into college. I could
not have competed against biological men. It just was not
something that I would have been able to do.
One of the things I am really proud of under the first term
is that OCR investigated and took to enforcement one of the
very first cases initiated by the Federal Government, which
actually determined that policies that allow students to
participate based on sexual orientation or gender identity
actually violated Title IX because they deprived women and
girls of the opportunity to participate in athletics.
I am very proud of that. I am proud of the way that the
Secretary and the President have prioritized this issue, and I
am certainly committed to vigorously enforcing it and
continuing to pursue these cases.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you. We have got the Olympics
here in a couple of years, a few years, in L.A. We are going to
be a joke if we allow that to happen. We are on the world
stage, so hopefully we come to our senses by that time and show
the little girls that, yes, you do have an opportunity.
Freedom, Financial Freedom Act. I think you are, Mr. Aronowitz,
are familiar with that.
The Biden administration pretty much prohibited being able
to put your finances where they want to at the end of the day,
and I have been trying to get that passed. Would you commit to
supporting legislation that would provide Americans the freedom
to invest their own money to how they see fit?
Mr. Aronowitz. Yes. [Technical problems]--decide what is in
retirement plans, not Government bureaucrats, not plaintiff
lawyers, no one. Fiduciaries know what is best, and I am
committed to that.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, coach. And coach always brings his
experience as a coach to the playing field, and I appreciate
that.
Senator Murray.
Senator Murray. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome
to all of you. For nearly 160 years, the Federal Government has
published the Condition of Education Report, which is really
critical to help us understand how students in schools are
doing. But this year, for the first time ever, the National
Center for Education Statistics missed its June 1st deadline to
publish the report, which is actually required by law.
This happened after the department fired almost all of the
National Center for Education's statistics staff and canceled
contracts that were needed to complete that work. Now, all we
have is a bare bones highlight document with no explanation to
Congress or to the public, and that is really unacceptable.
Students, families, teachers all deserve to see a full
report. And this is not just about one report. NCES is also
responsible for administering the National Assessment of
Educational Progress, NAPE, which you referred to, Dr. Schwinn,
also required by law, as you know. I have written the Secretary
on this issue and not yet received an adequate response, and
the department has not yet provided a promised briefing to me
on NAPEs.
Dr. Schwinn, I wanted to ask you, if you are confirmed,
will you ensure that NCES finally and fully and promptly
produces a complete Condition of Education Report and has the
staff that it needs to carry out all of its statutory required
duties including NAEP?
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for the question. If confirmed, I
will absolutely ensure that we follow all of the laws that you
all have passed, and certainly want to reinforce our commitment
to NAEP and its full execution.
Senator Murray. I appreciate that. Well, clearly the
decimation of NCES has compromised its ability to provide the
data that we in Congress and the public rely on. So I hope that
you will work to see that those cuts are reversed because we
can't afford to fly blind when it comes to knowing how our
students, schools and--students and our schools are doing. So,
I look forward to working with you on that.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Murray. Dr. Schwinn, the bipartisan Every Student
Succeeds Act, which we wrote on this Committee under Senator
Alexander--I helped write that as well with him. It requires
states to identify and support their most struggling schools.
But according to the GAO now, less than half of the schools
that were identified for additional support have compliant
improvement plans. The department has only reviewed three out
of five states total so far this year, with no plans for
further oversight.
It is really hard to imagine that the rate of review
improves because of the massive cuts we have seen across the
department. So I wanted to ask you, what is your proposal to
improve the department's rate of view and therefore help our
Nation's struggling schools and students?
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for the question. I think the most
important thing in your question is to say that there must be a
commitment to ensuring that our most struggling schools improve
because our students deserve that.
If confirmed, one of my top priorities is going to be
looking at any of the departments within the Department of
Education and ensuring that we know our statutory obligations,
certainly to Congress, that we have the most efficient
practices in place, and that we meet our obligations. And I
look forward to working with you on any of those.
Senator Murray. Would you commit to publicly reporting the
department's monitoring findings and state responses so
Congress and educators and students and families can see where
the struggling schools are?
Ms. Schwinn. I would certainly want to discuss that with
Secretary McMahon, but I would absolutely want to work with
your office on that project. Thank you for that suggestion.
Senator Murray. Okay, thank you. Ms. Richey, do you believe
that the staff at OCR are important to protect students' civil
rights?
Ms. Richey. I do, Senator.
Senator Murray. Do you believe that every complaint must be
investigated in a timely way?
Ms. Richey. I do.
Senator Murray. Well, earlier this week, Secretary McMahon,
appearing before another committee, told me that the current
backlog is 2,500 cases. The department later clarified to me
that it is actually a 25,000 backlog.
This Administration has fired more than half of the staff
at OCR, and President Trump is now asking his budget to slash
that by $49 million next year. So explain to me how those
firings and that funding cut will help reduce that backlog. I
want to be--I want to understand how you are going to square
that circle.
Ms. Richey. Yes. Thank you so much for that question,
Senator, and the opportunity to weigh in. As you can imagine,
as a nominee, I do not have access to information with regard
to the decisions that are being made at the department. I am
not in communication with OCR leadership or the Secretary.
One of the reasons why this role is so important to me is
because I am always going to advocate for OCR to have the
resources that it needs to do its job. So, I think that what it
means is that I am going to have to be really strategic if I am
confirmed stepping into this role, helping come up with a plan
where we can address these challenges.
Senator Murray. Okay. Well I think it is pretty clear, if
you have a 25,000 case backlog and you fire half the staff, cut
the budget by 36 percent, it is going to be pretty hard to get
those cases through. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Moody.
Senator Moody. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope you are
feeling better.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Moody. Thank you to all of you for being here
today. Certainly this is hard on not only you to prepare and go
through, but I know your families. And thank you for your
families for being here and your supporters for standing strong
with you as you face some really challenging questions, but the
roles will be no less challenging.
This is a good testament to how you will perform in your
roles, so welcome to the Senate. You were called all of you to
lead important offices and it is no surprise that you all are
well qualified. I have been amazed at the talent that this
Administration has attracted, and I thank you.
To answer the call of public service is not only a
sacrifice for you, but also for those that are at home when you
go home at night. So, thank you to your families. I am excited
to see another Floridian taking on a leadership role here in
DC. Ms. Richey not only served previously in the U.S.
Department of Education, but also in the Florida Department of
Education.
They have brought so much of the Florida leadership here to
DC, I think it snowed the third week in January in Florida,
historically. So, it is good to see you. Too much sunshine up
here. It is never a bad thing. Unlike previous years, President
Trump has come in immediately and is shining a light on
Antisemitic chaos and crime on our campuses. For that, we are
all grateful.
Whether it is by withholding Federal funding or by moving
to revoke the accreditation of failing institutions, the
message is clear that institutions must ensure the safety of
their students on campus and not allow Antisemitism or
violation of civil rights to go unchecked. This is something
that I think all of us sat in horror as we watched on our
campuses, as it played out on TV, and then as we heard the
calls for help coming in.
Certainly in Florida, we took a very strong approach to
make sure that not only our law enforcement understood crimes
that were being committed and took appropriate action. That our
prosecutors understood we couldn't let those that were
committing crimes right back out, right back on campus.
That is very important. But also a follow-up to make sure
that leadership is not continuing to either promote or allow
for a violation of civil rights. That is so important. And I
think it is probably no surprise that I want to talk to you,
Ms. Richey.
This morning, I filed a proposed bill called the Reclaim
Act, and it is a way to give the Administration another tool to
go after those universities that are allowing the violation of
Civil Rights by taking back taxpayer dollars to ensure
Americans are not funding institutions that continue to foster
Antisemitic crime or behavior--really I believe anti-American
behavior. And I believe that each of you in your roles can help
play a part of this.
But Ms. Richey, I would like to ask you in your capacity as
Assistant Secretary for the Office of Civil Rights, you will be
tasked with continuing to hold those institutions of higher
education accountable for failures in light of some of these
violations of civil rights. I know this is a priority for this
Administration. Have you contemplated, or how do you expect on
day one in your official capacity of addressing?
Ms. Richey. Yes. Thank you so much, Senator, for the
question and for your leadership on this issue. I should say
first, right, that with the recent tragedies that we have seen
in Colorado and even with the shootings here in DC, that those
incidents are emblematic of the horrific acts that the Jewish
students are facing across the country.
I am so appreciative of the forcefulness that the
Administration is using. It is merited. In this environment, it
is merited, and it is necessary. This will continue, fighting
Antisemitism will continue to be a priority for me. I think
there is a lot of tools in OCR's toolbox that we can use to
fight Antisemitism.
You are already seeing directed investigations and
compliance reviews to target certain schools, certain
universities. To put this issue at the forefront I think we
need to look at issuing guidance in a post-October 7th world,
right. The climate is very different than what it was 5 years
ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago.
I think we could look at amending the Title VI regulations
to specifically address Antisemitism. One of the things that I
feel like is my strength is the opportunity to partner across
the department.
I have done it with restraint and seclusion. I have done it
with sexual assault in K-12. This is an area where I would want
to partner with the post-secondary education office to see in
what ways we can use their tools and OCR's tools to really
vigorously enforce Title VI.
Senator Moody. I think that completes my time, Mr.
Chairman. Under time.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Moody.
Next is Senator Blunt Rochester.
Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Chairman Cassidy. And
thank you to all of the nominees and your families. I would
like to follow-up on some questions from Senator Baldwin and
Senator Murray. Starting with you, Ms. Richey.
In March of this year, the Department of Education closed 7
of its 12 civil rights enforcement offices, including the
Philadelphia office, which serves my State of Delaware. And at
the time, it was reported that there were more than 6,500 open
cases across this region, and 811 open cases in the
Philadelphia office alone.
I guess I want to start off by recognizing that if we are
closing offices, if we are firing staff, and we already knew
there was a backlog, first I would love to have a commitment
from you that you inform Congress shortly after you are
nominated, as well as those impacted individuals and families
who are waiting and don't know where their cases are, what
offices they are now going to?
Would first like a commitment that will be a priority for
you, should you be confirmed, to make sure you alert us, but
also those impacted families on where did their cases go.
Ms. Richey. Yes, thank you so much for the question,
Senator. As I mentioned to Senator Murray, I am always going to
advocate that OCR have the resources and the tools that it
needs to do its job.
Part of OCR's job is to openly and directly communicate
with parents and families so that they know the status of their
complaints. I am certainly committed to transparency with this
body, and certainly to communicating with parents across the
country.
Senator Blunt Rochester. I understand that you are not in
the position now, but I know you were acting in the position.
You served as Acting Secretary. And I guess one of the
questions I also have is, when you were there before, did you
have the resources you needed before?
I mean, does it make sense now to, if there was already a
backlog, to then cut people and shutter offices? Do you have in
your--first of all, that is the first question. Did you have
what you needed before as a department?
Ms. Richey. Yes, thank you. I am very proud of what we were
able to accomplish under President Trump's first term. Holding
Penn State accountable for Jerry Sandusky's sexual misconduct.
Holding Michigan State responsible----
Senator Blunt Rochester. I was just curious about like the
ratio and the staffing. Did you have what you needed before?
Ms. Richey. I don't recall the specific ratio to staff when
it comes to complaints versus how they were dispersed across
the staff. We effectively enforced civil rights laws, and that
is what OCR should always do.
Senator Blunt Rochester. Well, I appreciate your commitment
to transparency and would love for you to also report back to
Congress any information about caseload ratios of the remaining
staff so that we can get a better understanding of how things
are now compared to how things were before.
We all know that the world has shifted online, meaning web
accessibility is more important than ever, including for
students with disabilities. And a recent survey found that only
10 percent of college faculty believe their college provides
adequate tools to support students with disability, including
online materials.
In 2024, the Department of Justice issued new regulations
under the ADA, requiring public schools, colleges, and
universities to make their Web sites and apps accessible by
2027. And last month, this Committee even voted unanimously in
favor of an amendment. I proposed to reaffirm that commitment
to web accessibility for all students.
Yet OCR cut half the staff focused on resolving digital
accessibility complaints earlier this year. So it is hard for
me, again, to think if we didn't have the resources before,
cutting staff, shuttering offices, doing away with folks that
are going to help provide accessibility will make things
better.
If you are confirmed, would you commit to having web
accessibility be a priority, particularly in light of your own
personal story that you shared? Will you devote resources and
time to this issue?
Ms. Richey. Thank you, Senator. I am very proud that under
our previous--under the previous Administration, all the way
dating back to the Bush administration, that we always
prioritized web accessibility. We formed a specific team----
Senator Blunt Rochester. This doesn't feel like a priority
when we cut the people who make it possible.
Ms. Richey. I think what is important is that even without,
right, even without a specific law addressing web
accessibility, Web sites have to be accessible currently under
504, right. That is an existing legal requirement. So I am
always going to enforce these laws.
Senator Blunt Rochester. Exactly--exactly. So the answer is
yes?
Ms. Richey. Yes.
Senator Blunt Rochester. The answer is yes. And last, if I
could, just want to make sure, for Mr. Keeling, just a quick
question. Do you commit to supporting OSHA's protection of
whistle blowers, particularly from retaliation? Just a yes or
no.
Mr. Keeling. Absolutely.
Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, and I yield back.
The Chairman. Good job sneaking a question in, Senator
Blunt Rochester.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. I was asleep at the wheel.
Senator Husted.
Senator Husted. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Aronowitz, I
know that you are from a working class part of Ohio, so
congratulations on your job. Very appropriate. I just--you
mentioned something in your testimony about ESOPs. That is a
great way to help businesses involve their employees, keep the
legacy of those businesses in those communities.
I encourage you to do all you can to help support those in
your role. And I just wanted to say that to you. Don't need you
to answer anything. I just want you to know that. Dr. Schwinn,
you are going to get the rest of my time, Okay.
Here is the thing. Everybody in education has a tough job.
Because why? Because we love our kids. We want the best for our
children. And I have been astonished over my time working on
education my whole life, how policymakers want to stand in way
of the judgment of parents over what the best path is for their
children. Because all children learn differently.
All children have different interests. I have visited
hundreds and hundreds of schools over my time. They are STEM
schools, art schools, charter schools, religious schools, tech
cred, you name it. All of these different things that help
prepare children for different pathways.
I want to talk with you about the idea of freedom. We say
we love freedom in this country. Educational freedom should be
one that we embrace wholeheartedly. And when I was speaker of
the house in Ohio, I created a program in 2005 called the Ed
Choice Scholarship. It is a statewide voucher program now. It
has over 160,000 children enrolled in it at some level.
The Urban Institute recently conducted a study that showed
that children who have a voucher in the Ed Choice Scholarship
are 32 percent more likely to enroll in college than those who
remained in the same public schools. So, it works. It doesn't
mean that enrolling in college is the most important measure.
The most important measure is getting a child prepared to do
whatever they want to do.
But it is a valuable measure, and it shows that male
students, Black students, below median test score students, and
families from low incomes benefit the most from those
opportunities.
I want to just ask you, what do you believe that you can
do? First of all, do you believe in the philosophy that I just
articulated? And two, how can you help advance that if you do
indeed agree with it?
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for that question. And most
importantly, as a parent and educator, thank you for your work
and advocacy on behalf of students and families. So one, yes, I
believe that certainly as the parent of three very, very
different children, every child needs something different, and
I believe school choice is a way to do that. There are a lot of
different school models.
Certainly there are traditional public schools, magnet
schools, public charter schools, private schools, parochial
schools, etcetera. And it is really up to local communities and
states to figure out the policies that can be put into place to
give parents as many options as possible so they can choose the
best fit for their child.
I think that is incredibly important with an outcomes
orientation in mind because we have to do the best for 50
million kids. In my capacity, if confirmed as Deputy
Commissioner, I think there are two or three things that I can
do specifically to make that outcome more real for more
families.
No. 1, is states need to have a better sense of guidance
about what is and is not possible with the use of dollars and
current Federal policy. No. 2, is there are a lot of states
doing an incredibly innovative and interesting work.
That is everything from Miami Dade in Florida, who is
building a classical model within their traditional public
schools, to the State of Arkansas who is just on a universal
school choice and voucher program. We can provide different
states with models that fit their particular local communities.
Then No. 3, I think one of the best things that we can do
is we can provide more information, transparency, and action
oriented information for families. Families need to make those
decisions, not policymakers. The Government is not the parent.
We need to empower parents to make the decisions and give them
those choices.
Senator Husted. Great. And I love that you have the
Department of Labor and Department of Education here because
you need to be connected, right. Because particularly with
career tech.
We have set a record for the number of children enrolled in
career tech. Every job is going to require some type of
technical training. It doesn't mean you have to go to college,
though. There are so many ways to do it. I encourage you to
lean in on career tech.
But two final points I want to raise of some things that I
have noticed over time is that one of the things that we have
been doing in Ohio, and I know other states are doing it as
well, get the smartphones out of the schools. I know we don't
want to tell people how to do these things.
There are policies to do it. But when you talk to
principals who say, yes, as soon as I got the smartphone out,
the lunchroom got noisy again because children are actually
talking to one another. Discipline problems are down. Learning
is up. Bullying is down. All of the things have dramatically
improved.
Then you mentioned the science of reading. It is abundantly
clear. The facts are clear that it is the way to teach reading.
What thoughts do you have on those two topics?
Ms. Schwinn. No. 1, I would love to see cell phones be more
restricted in schools, and frankly, I would love to have those
companies provide the pouches and pockets for students to store
them in.
Second is, I believe that the science of reading should be
in every single state, and more importantly, we should be
focused on implementation. Your state has done an incredible
job on that, as so many of the others have.
We need to go further and faster and push harder on quality
implementation and return on investment.
Senator Husted. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you Senator Husted.
Senator Alsobrooks.
Senator Alsobrooks. Thanks so much, Mr. Chairman. I have
two questions. First of all, to all of our nominees, thank you.
Congratulations, and thank you for being here today. I have
questions for two of our witnesses.
One is Mr. Keeling. I will begin with you. I just want to
talk to you about the emergency response standard. Baltimore
City Fire Department was left recently in mourning in recent
weeks following the deaths of two of the bravest in the line of
duty.
In an interview with my staff, I know that you pushed back
against the immediate need for an updated emergency response
standard. And the proposed rule from OSHA would update what is
now a nearly 50-year-old fire grade standard and improve safety
and health protections for emergency responders.
We know that the rule would require access to behavioral
health resources and improve minimum standards for staffing,
apparatus readiness, and protective clothing. So I wonder
whether you believe that there is a need to increase workplace
protections for firefighters.
Mr. Keeling. All workers, including our emergency response
service members, need to be able to return home healthy at the
end of the day. So there is no disagreement at all there. I
think when you look at the standard itself, there is a path
through. So I didn't--if I came across as pushing back, that
wasn't my intention. I think there is a path-through on that
issue.
But there are some concerns, I think, from volunteer fire
departments and others coming in about how they make that work
from a voluntary firefighter and a limited budget perspective.
So I think there is a path through.
I just don't know that, and I haven't been in contact with
the career folks at OSHA yet, just being a nominee. I think
that there is path forward. I just know if it is exactly as
written right now.
Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. Well, that is good to hear. And
then, would you commit then to work toward really an immediate
adoption of at least a slightly revised standard that minimizes
detrimental effects on volunteer fire departments?
Mr. Keeling. I will commit, Senator, that will be one of
the first conversations I have with the career team, if I am
confirmed.
Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. And then just last, the concern,
we have 350,000 members of the International Association of
Firefighters who endorse Secretary Chavez DeRemer, but we are
really concerned about mental health for our firefighters, and
I wonder whether you believe that mental health issues are an
occupational hazard for certain professions.
We know that our fire department, for example, had to
really take matters into its own hands, start its own center,
the National Center of Excellence Treatment for PTSD. I wonder
whether you believe this is an occupational hazard.
Mr. Keeling. Absolutely, I do. I feel that it is something
that, depending on the work that is done, the potential trauma
or the situations that workers are put in, whether it is a
fireman or a policeman--there is a number of health care
workers we mentioned earlier. There is a number of workplaces
out there where the stress needs to be considered.
Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you. And finally and I know you
weren't a part of this decision, but this Administration paused
the firefighter cancer registry at the National Institute for
Occupational Safety and Health. And we know that 70 percent of
our line of duty deaths are due to occupational cancer.
Just concerned about that. I want to just put that on your
radar as well. I think it was the wrong decision. Ms. Richey, I
just want to quickly also ask you a question. The
Administration, as you have heard this morning, has slashed the
Office for Civil Rights staff, but they have also signaled that
there will be a reprioritization of case adjudication at the
Office of Civil Rights, placing some forms of discrimination
over others.
First of all, do you agree that it is important for OCR to
treat all forms of discriminations equally to ensure that we
are sending the message that all forms of discrimination, all
violations of the Civil Rights Act are unacceptable?
Ms. Richey. Thank you, Senator, for the question. I do
believe that all forms of discrimination, all complaints that
are filed with OCR, that it is important to vigorously enforce
all of the Federal laws that OCR is responsible for enforcing.
Senator Alsobrooks. Okay. And so in that same vein, in your
opinion then, is discrimination based on religion any worse
than discrimination, for example, based on race?
Ms. Richey. It is somewhat of a difficult question to
answer, Senator, since the Office for Civil Rights does not
have specific jurisdiction over religion. It is--for purposes
of this office, it is almost like comparing apples and oranges.
I think I would have to go back to my original statement,
which is that any claim of discrimination is wrong. One student
that is harmed for being discriminated against, that is enough,
right. It is all wrong, and it should all be addressed.
Senator Alsobrooks. Exactly. So then you would agree that
discrimination based on race, religion, disability, ancestry,
they are all equally important. There is no distinction in
terms of their importance. All forms of discrimination are
wrong.
Ms. Richey. I don't disagree with that Senator, and I think
that the Office for Civil Rights, is focusing on all
complaints.
Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome,
ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your willingness to serve.
I want to start with you, Dr. Schwinn. As you know, Alaska has
the greatest number of Indian tribes in any state. And a lot of
focus now on what more we can be doing on the education front.
Alaska Native leaders and parents are really interested in
doing more when it comes to self-determination over their
children's education. In the last reauthorization of ESSA, I
included language to require states and school districts to
engage in meaningful consultation with tribal representatives.
Unfortunately, we haven't seen a lot of engagement as we
had hoped since 2017. We just--and it has been across multiple
Administrations here. And so, I would just like to put this to
your attention, recognizing that it is important to meet the
requirements of meaningful consultation, whether it is in the
Department of Education or whether it is in Interior. It is
across our Government.
I put that in front of you here today. And another issue
that I would like to bring to your attention. The State of
Alaska is moving forward with a pilot program to create what we
call STEC, State Tribal Education Compact Schools. Secretary
McMahon has met with some of the STEC schools' representatives.
This would effectively, with this compact, education
compact with the tribes, would be public schools that are open
to all students to offer culturally relevant educational
models.
I don't know if you have been brought up to speed, if you
had any conversations on these, but we are hoping that you
would be able to effectively advocate for additional support as
we move forward with these initiatives in Alaska.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you. I will go ahead and say that your
staff gave me a little bit of information and gave me some
information to follow-up on, if I am so confirmed. But really
look forward to working with your office on that. And want to
just congratulate you on what I think is a really innovative
program and look forward to seeing more about it.
Senator Murkowski. Well, we feel like we need to be
innovative because the status quo has not helped our native
students. And when our native students do not do well, Alaskan
students writ large do not do.
We want to be doing more in this area. Let me turn to you,
Mr. Aronowitz. You are probably very familiar with the angst
that has been expressed by some about the need. For a single,
clear regulatory definition of good faith effort for valuing
ESOP stock.
The concern is that instead of having a clear definition
that is spelled out in regulation, ESOPs have been operating
under this kind of a patchwork of litigation and investigation.
There is also some concern that the department has taken
excessive enforcement actions against ESOP's. Can you speak
very briefly to your views on these?
Mr. Aronowitz. I believe that Congress wants ESOPs. And
everybody is for ESOP except the Department of Labor the last
20 years. And I will end the war on ESOPs. I think it is the
best way for employees to get an additional benefit and
ownership in an American company. The valuation companies have
all been sued by the Department Labor.
It can't be right that every single one of them are doing
it wrong. What the department is doing is nitpicking the
professional judgment of the valuation professionals. I am
going to put an end to that because I think unless there is a
clear conflict of interest, then the valuation is appropriate
when done by an independent valuation firm.
Senator Murkowski. Well, there are so many in my state
where the ESOP is really looked at and valued as that
commitment to not only that business, but employer security as
well--employee security as well. So, thank you for that. Mr.
Keeling, OSHA has traditionally relied on NIOSH data and
recommendations for any of the workplace safety standards.
I come from a state where we unfortunately have a high
incidence of accidents on the workforce. The commercial fishing
industry has been tagged as one of the most dangerous
occupations in the country. We have significant and severe
wildfires every year, so we worry about health and safety risks
to our firefighters.
We have seen the Administration moving forward with some
pretty significant cuts to NIOSH, and I am concerned that this
is going to hamper some of the vital research that is out
there. So I don't know if you can speak to whether we have a
plan on how we fill the data and information gap if NIOSH is
unable to produce what we need in terms of timely data and
recommendations as you work to inform rulemaking.
Mr. Keeling. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question.
There is a gap, if you will, if NIOSH doesn't exist. But there
are ways through that I think. Use of private entities to fill
some of those gaps. I have not been--obviously I am not in
place. I have not spoken to anyone in the career side from OSHA
on that point, and NIOSH does not directly report to the
Department of Labor.
There is a little bit of a difference there, a separation
there as well. I have got--I will have questions as well when--
if I am lucky enough to be confirmed, about how we do that. But
I think there are paths through. I think through using the
professional groups that are out there and by using some
private resources there are ways to fill the gap. Not
necessarily easily, but there are ways.
Senator Murkowski. Right. We don't want to see those gaps.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. [Technical problems]--the time to
Senator Kim.
Senator Kim. Thank you, Chairman. Ms. Richey, I want to
just start with you. A lot of conversation about the scourge of
Antisemitism that we are facing right now. I guess I just want
to ask you, is Antisemitism getting better or worse in America?
Ms. Richey. I think--thank you, Senator, for the question.
I think one of the benefits of having sat in the various roles
in which I have served is that I started working on these
issues back in 2004. And so, I do have the full scope of seeing
the picture for 20 years.
Senator Kim. What does it look like to you from your view--
--
Ms. Richey. I do think it is getting worse. I think when we
were dealing with these issues 20 years ago, we were looking at
classic harassment, classic intimidation. I think what it has
evolved into is threats, violence, exclusion, a much more
severe and a much more persistent----
Senator Kim. If it is getting worse, doesn't it make sense
then that we would invest more in countering Antisemitism and
invest more into the Office of Civil Rights?
Ms. Richey. Well, I certainly think that the Administration
is prioritizing investigations involving Antisemitism. I think
they are aggressively and forcefully identifying----
Senator Kim. How does that mesh with just the facts that we
are seeing reductions in the staff at the Office of Civil
Rights?
Ms. Richey. Yes, I appreciate the question, Senator. As I
mentioned before, I can't explain or provide information on
decisions that I wasn't involved in or decisions that I didn't
make. I am not in a position right now to be in communication
with department leadership.
Senator Kim. Well, just to get a sense of your thinking
here on this front, though. I supported, and I have called for
a doubling of the Office Civil Rights' budget. Is that
something you would be open to?
Ms. Richey. Yes, I think that this body will determine in
coordination with the President and the Secretary what an
appropriate budget is. And my job is to focus on the needs of
OCR, how to take its resources, its staff.
Senator Kim. I hope that you are--I just guess I would ask
you will you commit to this Committee that if you go through--
if you get confirmed and you see your resources, and if there
are needs, that you will come back to us and have an honest
conversation with us about those needs.
Ms. Richey. Senator, I am always--as I mentioned before, I
am always going to advocate that OCR have the staff and the
resources it needs to do its job.
Senator Kim. Now, when it comes to--I had a conversation
with members of the disability community, the disability
advocates, so I appreciate some of what you said there earlier.
I will be honest with you.
They are concerned about some of the discussion out there
about moving the OCR over to the Department of Justice. They
are worried about the fact that Health and Human Services
Secretary told me that she thinks IDEA should be over at HHS.
I would like your reaction to that, because I promised them
I would ask you this. So do you support keeping OCR at the
Department of Ed?
Ms. Richey. Yes. Senator, one of the things that I
appreciate the most about the President's directive to the
Secretary about examining where education lies and the Federal
role in education is that he is the first President to turn the
focus on students. To stop and say what is best for students?
What is best for families?
Senator Kim. But if it's about best for students, why is it
moving it out of the Department Ed an idea to be considered?
Ms. Richey. The current structure is not serving students.
The current is not meeting the needs of students. We would have
higher NAEP scores. We would see better outcomes if what we
were doing right now was working. So what I appreciate and what
I agree with is the conversation for us to stop and look at how
can we better meet the needs of students, how can we better
serve families. I think that is an important discussion and I
appreciate----
Senator Kim. I don't disagree with you that there are
things we can improve when it comes to education, but what we
have seen is a dramatic increase in support and--to students
with disabilities.
We are not perfect on that, but I think there is a lot of
concern that the rug is going to be pulled out from under them
and that a system that they have been trying to work on to
improve--and again, we should be investing more in.
I just wanted to raise that with you, because I know you
raised this as an importance for you, and I think it is
something that we owe the disability community, we owe students
with disabilities and their families a clear answer on what is
to come. Ms. Schwinn, I just wanted to ask you, do you see
value in having foreign students study at U.S. colleges and
universities?
Ms. Schwinn. I appreciate the question. I would say that I
think there is value for students to receive an excellent
higher education. And so, that would be my answer.
Senator Kim. Yes, I guess I would just say, it is not just
for them. This is something that I read, a very interesting Op-
ed from you when you talked about the importance of R&D. And
you talked mRNA, you talked about AI.
Those are advancements that immigrants and foreign students
helped our Country push forward. So it is not just about the
benefit to foreign students. It is a benefit to the United
States, to our global competitiveness. Is that something you
would agree to?
Ms. Schwinn. Yes.
Senator Kim. Okay. Thank you. And with that, I will yield
back.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Hawley.
Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Congratulations to the nominees. Thank you for being here.
Ms. Richey, if I can just start with you. I just want to
clarify something that you said to Senator Baldwin a moment or
two ago. She asked you about OCR investigations into alleged
cases of discrimination on the basis of gender identity under
Title IX. And you said, I think--I am looking at our quick
transcript of your remarks. I was sitting here. I want to make
sure I heard it correctly. You said that the OCR, the
Department of that OCR would investigate alleged cases of
gender identity discrimination. Why is that?
Ms. Richey. Thank you for the question, Senator, and for
the opportunity to have a detailed discussion about it. So in
2017, OCR clarified that transgender students, that students
who bring allegations forth based on sexual orientation and
gender identity, were protected from harassment under Title IX.
Sex stereotyping, a very narrow set of cases applied to
protect students on the basis of sexual orientation and gender
identity. That was back in 2017. Following the Bostock case,
OCR had to step back and determine how Bostock applied to Title
IX cases. There are a lot of reasons it didn't apply, and I can
walk through those because they are significant.
But what OCR finally determined is that because of the
holding in Bostock, that Bostock could inform OCR's evaluation
of complaints that allege discrimination on the basis of sexual
orientation identity to determine if they involve biological
sex, which is consistent with the Bostock opinion.
What we held is that Bostock could inform some, a limited
sect of OCR cases pertaining to different treatment, pertaining
to harassment, pertaining to bullying, but we drew a hard line
at universally accepting Bostock to apply to all Title IX
cases.
What we said is that because the Supreme Court said that
biological sex was not relevant in the termination of those
employees in Bostock, that we would also look at the relevance
of sex in our cases.
What we determined is that sex is relevant in certain
instances. Sex is relevant with regard to restrooms. Sex is
relative with regard the locker rooms. And sex is relative to
athletic teams. So it was a very nuanced approach.
Senator Hawley. But sex is not gender identity, and the
Bostock decision is Title VII. The Supreme Court specifically
reserved the question of whether or not it applied to Title IX.
Justice Gorsuch is very clear on this. Now, the Biden
administration didn't heed that warning at all, as you know.
They subsequently issued guidance that attempted to rewrite
Title IX completely. That guidance has been enjoined nationally
by courts because it is utterly inconsistent with the text of
Title IX. Indeed it complete--as you know, it completely
upends. It reads Title IX to say that women sports cease to
exist.
That a biological man, if he wants to be in a women's
sport, go for it. In a women's locker room, fine. It is so
outrageous that I think almost every court that has considered
it has enjoined it.
Ms. Richey. I agree.
Senator Hawley. Okay. I just want to be sure that you are
not going to follow the Biden administration's interpretation
of Title IX, surely?
Ms. Richey. No, sir. The Biden administration universally
accepted Bostock and arguably exceeded, right. Went even
further, I think, than the Bostock opinion.
Senator Hawley. Not arguably----
Ms. Richey. That is not what we did under President Trump's
first term, and that is not what we will do under President's
Trump's second term.
Senator Hawley. Good. Okay. I want to be crystal clear on
this. I think it is a very dangerous thing to start allowing
this into Title IX, which as you know, is a landmark statute,
it is vitally important, and it has been under attack for four
very long years, where we have seen women sports, women's
leadership opportunities, women safety eliminated in many
cases.
Now of course, one of the challenges you are going to face
is you have got a host of colleges and universities who are
openly defying not just this Administration, they are defying
court orders. I hear a lot of talk from my friends over here on
this side of the dais about the need to follow court orders.
We have got a whole bunch of colleges and Administrations
that are defying court orders and saying, well we don't care.
We are going to have biological men and women sports no matter.
We are going to have biological man in women's locker rooms no
matter what. Surely you are going to go after that, are you
not, and protect the women on campus?
Ms. Richey. Yes, sir. The current leadership within OCR and
Secretary McMahon, as you know, is prioritizing these cases,
and that will not stop under my leadership if I am fortunate
enough to assume this role.
Senator Hawley. Good. And I want to be on the record. So,
back to your regulations both in 2017 and 2020, I think you
might want to rethink those. I mean, in light of subsequent
jurisprudence and in light, frankly, of subsequent experience,
I think, you want to take a really hard look at how you are
interpreting gender identity and the interface.
There is some water under the bridge now and the interphase
with biological sex and just how that is being used to
undermine the rights of--it is never the rights men. It is
always the rights of women 100 percent of the time, and I think
we have got to be very careful about that.
My time has expired. And the Chairman, I am such a good
citizen. I never go over, so I will just submit some questions
for the record for you, Dr. Schwinn and others. Congratulations
to all of you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hawley.
Senator Kaine.
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
our witnesses. I think I am going to focus questions to Dr.
Schwinn and Ms. Richey about higher education. And Ms. Richey,
I decided to do this.
My staff hates it when they give me questions, and I end up
going in a different direction. But you had a wonderful
statement in your prepared testimony that I read, ``students
cannot gain the knowledge or skills they need to be successful
in life if they are unable to access educational programs and
activities.''
I completely agree with that. I would ask each of you on
that point, helping students gain access to education and
educational activities, do you agree that the Pell Grant
program has been a pretty important program?
Ms. Richey. Yes, Senator. I will start. I don't know if I
am, I certainly, in my current capacity at the Florida
Department of Education, I certainly see the benefits. You
know, OCR's involvement in those programs is fairly limited.
Senator Kaine. Right.
Ms. Richey. But I certainly am committed to working with
the Secretary.
Senator Kaine. Thank you. Dr. Schwinn, how about Pell
Grant--important?
Ms. Schwinn. As a former high school teacher, and certainly
at every level of education, I think it is important that
students, especially low income students, have access to
educational opportunities. At the same time, it is also
important that we start to put some restrictions on the
skyrocketing cost of higher education.
Senator Kaine. How about Federal work study? That is a way
that low-income kids can afford colleges. Federal work study's
long-standing program, is that generally a good thing?
Ms. Schwinn. I will go ahead and go first on this one. So I
believe that it is important that students have opportunities
to earn money as they are enrolled in universities, colleges,
trade schools, etcetera.
I also think that I agree with an earlier statement that I
heard Secretary McMahon make, which is that it is important for
universities and education institutions to also have a piece of
that pie and to have a strong stake in that.
I think the most important thing is that students has
access to resources so that they can make their way through.
Senator Kaine. Including Federal work study. They can work
on campus and make some money and help afford college better
that way.
Ms. Schwinn. I think it is a great model for students to be
able to work on campus.
Senator Kaine. Ms. Richey, Federal work study, a good way
to help students gain access to higher-ed?
Ms. Richey. Sorry, Senator. Again, in my current role, I
have certainly seen it be a value add. I am not sure that it
directly relates to my role within OCR.
Senator Kaine. Right. How about student loan programs like
the Undergrad PLUS or the--I am sorry, Subsidized Undergrad and
Grad PLUS loans. Are those one way that we can help students
gain access to education programs?
Ms. Richey. I feel like my answer is the same on this,
Senator. Sorry, I will pass it to Dr. Schwinn.
Senator Kaine. Great. I won't make you repeat it. Yes, Dr.
Schwinn.
Ms. Schwinn. I am going to have to say the same thing. I
would certainly look to the Under Secretary for advice on that.
Senator Kaine. Yes. And then how about in public service
loan forgiveness? That is not at the front end, but people who
have loans in these loan programs that you have generally said
are generally positive. If they have the ability to have loans
forgiven for public service pursuant to Congressional laws, is
that generally a good thing in terms of helping people have
access?
Ms. Richey. I think again, sir, it falls outside of my
scope within OCR. It is something that I would have to work
directly with the Secretary on.
Senator Kaine. Are you aware of public service loan
forgiveness as a concept?
Ms. Richey. I am.
Senator Kaine. Not opposed to it?
Ms. Richey. It just falls outside of my scope--outside of
knowledge.
Senator Kaine. Dr. Schwinn.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you for the question. I am also aware of
the programs. There are a variety of them. I think it is--I
appreciate the intent around those going into public service. I
am having support. I also think that I would want to review
each and every one individually.
Senator Kaine. Let me do this, if the audience will indulge
me on this. If you or members of your family have been
benefited by Pell Grant, work study, student loan programs, or
public service loan forgiveness, just raise your hand if you
have been benefited by programs like that. Okay, got a good
number of hands raised in the audience.
President Trump's latest budget slashes the Pell Grant
award by $1,685. It also says that you don't get the full-time
Pell Grant award if you are 12 hours a semester. You have to go
up to 15 hours, which impacts a whole lot of people who work
and go to school.
The House Republican proposal that is in front of us
eliminates Pell Grant eligibility for students who are less
than halftime, impacting working people who are going to
school. Work study, it is $1.2 billion. President Trump has
almost zeroed it out. He has eliminated $990 million.
That is gutting Federal work study programs. President
Trump's budget is eliminating the Grad PLUS and subsidized
student loan programs. And in the first Trump administration,
there was an essential gutting of public service loan
forgiveness, not by changing the statute, but just refusing to
grant public service loan forgiveness.
Ms. Richey, you testified that this is an Administration
that is the first to focus on the needs of the students. I
think that is a hubristic statement. I think other
Administrations have focused on the need of the student.
But as I conclude, I hardly see how slashing Pell Grant,
Federal work study, loan programs, public service loan
forgiveness is focusing upon the needs of students and giving
them the access to educational programs that I think we all
want to achieve. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Hassan.
Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome to the
nominees. Congratulations on your nominations. And
congratulations to your families too, because I know this is a
team effort. To all of you, before turning to education issues,
I want to ask you all a simple question related to recent
events.
We will just go down the line here. If directed by the
President to take an action that would break the law, would you
follow the law or follow the President's directive? Dr. Schwinn
will start with you.
Ms. Schwinn. The President would not ask me to do that, and
I will always follow the law.
Senator Hassan. Thank you.
Ms. Richey. The same. The President would not ask me to do
that, but I will follow the law, Senator.
Mr. Aronowitz. The President wouldn't ask me to do anything
illegal, but I would always follow the law.
Senator Hassan. Sir?
Mr. Keeling. Same.
Senator Hassan. Well, I thank you for your commitment to
following the law. I am disappointed in your--I don't know, it
seems to me you are pretty out of touch with recent events
about the President's behavior.
Dr. Schwinn, you are nominated to be the second in charge
at the Department of Education. Unfortunately, the
Administration is abdicating its responsibility to ensure that
all American children can receive a high quality public
education that prepares them for citizenship, work, and life.
We should be focused on how to improve public education,
how to build a system that is the envy of the world, but
instead the President has moved to close the Department of
Education. Do you support the President's goal of shuttering
the Department Of Education?
Ms. Schwinn. I support I think the shared goal that we all
have to your--the first part of your question, that we want an
education system that is the envy of the world. 90 percent of
our students attend public schools. We need to make decisions
that are in the best interest of them.
Senator Hassan. That is not my question. Do you support
shuttering the Department of Education?
Ms. Schwinn. I support the President's EO, which is to
explore all the opportunities and options around what is in the
best interest of students, including shuttering the Department
of Education.
Senator Hassan. Well, I will just given some of your
testimony, some of Ms. Richey's testimony, I will remind you
all that the reason the Department of Education was established
was because the needs of students weren't being met through the
Department of Health Education and Welfare, particularly the
need to make sure that we were focusing on all students in the
wake of the passage of IDEA that we wanted a department that
prioritized kids.
In fact, when adults stop being pushed to prioritize
children and students, they generally lose because other
agencies will put adult needs first. So I have real concerns
about this. I will also note that the Department of Education
does not make decisions about teacher recruitment, teacher pay,
class size, curriculum. Those are all state and local
decisions.
The department is there to provide technical assistance and
support, which it does, and it has very effectively done so in
New Hampshire, where some of our public schools. Are really
doing remarkable and good work.
Now, I am particularly concerned that this Administration
abruptly and irresponsibly cutoff critical funding for school
districts and states that Congress directed through the
bipartisan Safer Communities Act to train and place mental
health professionals in schools.
As someone who has worked at the state and district levels,
Dr. Schwinn, do you think that what the department did helps or
hurts the communities that were counting on the funding that
they were promised? If confirmed, do you commit to reining in
the chaos and operational failures that we are seeing at the
department?
Ms. Schwinn. I believe that mental health is incredibly
important for students in this country. Three quick points.
One, the grants were discontinued and will be rebid. Two, if I
am confirmed as Deputy Commissioner, I will ensure that I am
working to have an efficient, effective, and outcomes oriented
department. And No. 3, I commit to work closely, certainly with
the Secretary and with Congress, to ensure that what you have
passed is what is actually implemented.
Senator Hassan. Let me just tell you that in New Hampshire,
we had a 5-year program through grants that has been training
up mental health workers for schools in concert with the
University of New Hampshire. So, that we are training
specifically. That just got pulled.
After 2 years of investment in this program, students in
our Manchester public schools do really important work for our
kids, helping them get to a place where they can begin to
improve their achievement, and this Administration has just
recklessly pulled the rug out from under without any indication
that there is any difficulty with the actual operation of this
program.
It has disrupted schools. It is disrupting critical
services that support mental health in our biggest school
district. And it is really unfortunate. As I have said before,
unlike a good carpenter who measures twice before cutting, this
Administration just cuts, and it is doing real, real harm. I
will submit for the record a question that follows up on
Senator Murray's really about assessment and accountability.
I will note that since this Administration took office, the
department no longer posts the backlog of cases in the Office
of Civil Rights. New Hampshire has a backlog of about 51 cases.
That was as of January 14th. This Administration has gone dark.
We don't know how many there are right now.
But most of those cases are cases of discrimination against
students with disabilities, or alleged cases, and I hope very
much that we can get back to posting information and adequately
staffing OCR. Thank you.
The Chairman. I thought I saw Senator Banks come in, but I
don't see him now. What is that? Jim, do you want to ask?
Senator Banks.
Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Schwinn, you
have been nominated to help eliminate the very department that
you are going to work for, or at least to help dismantle a huge
bureaucracy. And I want to ask you, I mean, technically, how do
we do it?
How do we dismantle a huge bureaucracy and send important
decisions about education back to the states? Do you have an
expertise, a background on the role of the states versus the
onerous, bureaucratic role of the Federal Government? Give us a
technical take on how do we get there.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate that and
certainly appreciate the work that Indiana has done in this
space. So first and foremost, I think it is important--and I
would certainly work, if confirmed, with the Secretary and with
Congress on any actions related to the role of the department.
No. 1, we have to start with students and not focus on
systems. When you read the laws and policies, it is all about
systems. When we think about what is best for the student in
every single state, and states are completely different, we
need to build a plan around that first.
No. 2 is we have 54 states and territories that are doing
really good work for their students. Being able to create an
infrastructure that determines where that should be housed
within the Federal Government, knowing that one, the department
is a building with people in it.
What people actually care about is the laws that you all
pass and the funding you all appropriate. We need to make sure
that those two things are rock solid, that our states
understand exactly how much money they are getting, and what
the laws say their responsibilities are. And then allow states
to figure out the best way to implement that to achieve
outcomes for their kids.
Senator Banks. You certainly agree that the states can do
this a lot better than the Federal Government.
Ms. Schwinn. I believe that my experience, yes----
Senator Banks. Effectively put kids, students first, and
the states can--all 50 states can accomplish this better than
what the Federal Government does.
Ms. Schwinn. The best outcomes that we got in Tennessee
were with dollars that were completely flexible and allowed us
to make the best decisions for our students without any kind of
categorical restrictions because we could figure out what our
students need and make decisions aligned to those needs.
Senator Banks. The statistics, the metrics all point to the
decades of having a Federal Department of Education as a total
failure, right. I mean, it has failed at its objective, which
is to educate our kids and support our kids, and teachers, and
schools, and administrators, and families in the states. And
there is no doubt about it that the State of Indiana can run
these programs better than the Federal Government.
Ms. Schwinn. Well, as a personal privilege, I will say you
also have a pretty exceptional commissioner in the State of
Indiana in Dr. Katie Jenner. But I would say most importantly
is that a department or an agency in the Federal Government is
not going to change the outcomes of students.
The teacher in the classroom is going to teach the
standards that are approved by that state. The parent is the
parent of that child. What we need to do is ensure that we have
created a system that is going to drive outcomes. That is not
going to happen from the Federal Government, whether there is a
Department of Education or not.
We need to build structures and systems for students that
support local communities to do just that. Where the Federal
role of that is housed is a much broader question, but it is
missing the point that we are not doing what is necessary for
students, and the education of students happens at the local
level.
We need to do a much better job of implementing the laws,
policies, and spending the dollars that you all appropriate to
us.
Senator Banks. It drives me--it drives me crazy. I mean, it
makes me sick when I see that the average--on average, a
bureaucrat at the Federal Department of Education makes twice
as much money than a teacher in Indiana on average. Who does
the Department of Education work for, the employees or the
students and teachers and schools back in the states? What can
we do to unwind that?
Ms. Schwinn. I appreciate that. I certainly can't comment
on the Federal salary schedule, but I can--but what I will say
is the daughter of a single mom who is a teacher and starting
my role as commissioner in Tennessee where the starting teacher
salary was $37,000 per year, and that was in 2019, teachers are
not compensated at a competitive level for what we are
expecting of them and the outcomes we want for our students,
period.
I do believe that when we have looked at compensation at
the Federal level, there is some opportunity costs. We spend a
lot of money, and we have to figure out how we use those
resources. If we just look at, for example, every $10 million
that we spend on, whether that is compensation, operations,
etcetera. What that translates to in Tennessee is $5 million
gave AP access for all.
That is 14 AP classes free for every single one of the high
school students in our state. The other $5 millions is 20
percent of my third graders get high dose of tutoring. And so,
it is a little bit of a tradeoff. For every $10 million we
spend and wasted bureaucracy, that is what my kids could get.
Those are taxpayer dollars off kitchen tables.
Senator Banks. Teachers should be paid a lot more,
bureaucrats in Washington should be paid a little less. I just
want to draw your attention. Senator Rounds from South Dakota
has a bill, Returning Education To Our State's Act. And if you
are not familiar with it, I hope that you will be before you
head over to the department, and we can work together to pass
it. Thank you. I yield back.
Ms. Schwinn. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Banks.
Now, Senator Markey.
Senator Markey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Keeling, I am
working with Senator Padilla to protect workers from excessive
heat. And I hope you are going to commit to working with us to
ensure that OSHA issues a final workplace heat stress
prevention rule that includes the well-researched, effective
requirements of the proposed heat rule.
I hope you are going to work with us, Mr. Keeling, to make
sure that gets done for the workers of our Country. Ms. Richey,
last night, President Trump issued a proclamation barring
Harvard international students from entering the United States.
The proclamation, not even an Executive Order, is toothless.
Any attempt to implement it would be illegal and
unconstitutional.
This is yet another page from Trump's authoritarian
playbook. Over the last 5 months, Trump has demanded Harvard to
bow to ideological demands and retaliated when Harvard refused
to comply. The Administration has terminated over $3.7 billion
in grants and contracts to Harvard and its research partners.
The Administration disqualified Harvard from future Federal
grants, threatened the school's tax-exempt status, and revoked
its ability to issue student visas. The Civil Rights Act
requires a clear process before ripping funding away from
students, faculty, and staff.
In fact, the office that you have been nominated to lead,
the Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights actually
has a 32-page manual detailing the process that must be
exhausted before any actions are taken. And this process is
meant to protect people and institutions from abuses of power
by the Federal Government.
It is meant to protect people from losing the education
they have dreamed of just because they are an international
student and from having funding for their life's work ripped
from them all because of a President's vendetta against an
individual school.
Ms. Richey, if confirmed, do you commit to reversing any
funding cuts or other sanctions imposed upon universities that
were not afforded due process that they are entitled to under
the Constitution and under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act?
Ms. Richey. Senator, thank you for the question. As I have
mentioned previously in this hearing, I cannot speak to current
actions that have been taken by the department, specifically by
OCR leadership.
In my role as a nominee, I simply just don't have
information to the basis for the decisions or the reasoning
behind the decisions, the case files, the investigatory record.
I don't have access to information.
Senator Markey. I am not asking you--I am asking you the
larger question. Will you object to anything that does not
afford due process entitled under the Constitution or Title VI
of the Civil Rights Act?
Ms. Richey. Yes, I reference that only, Senator, to say
that I don't have enough information to commit to that at this
time.
Senator Markey. I appreciate that. I am looking for your
broader commitment to just upholding the Constitution of the
United States. That answer should be a clear and unequivocal
yes, that you will uphold the Constitution. That you will
uphold Title VI of the Civil Rights Act. That is all we want to
hear from you. That is your job.
Ms. Richey. Senator, thank you. What I can commit to is
compliance with the Case Processing Manual, which I have
written several times, and compliance with OCR's regulations
under Title VI.
Senator Markey. Let me continue then. Ms. Richey, yes or
no, do you endorse ripping funding from researchers and
students stealing educational opportunity from international
students, abducting students from campuses for asserting their
First Amendment rights, and continuing to threaten colleges and
universities that refuse to comply with lawless demands?
Ms. Richey. Senator, I will commit to following OCR's
regulations and OCRs case processing manual.
Senator Markey. Yes, I am still not getting the answer that
I want, because again, this Administration is treating American
freedom and dissent as the enemy, and students and faculty and
staff are collateral damage to be unwilling and unable to stand
against this means that you are silent in the face of
authoritarianism.
It unfortunately makes you unqualified for this position of
high responsibility. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
Senator Hickenlooper. Yes. And I know we are going to miss
our votes, so I am going to ask one question.
The Chairman. We are not going to miss our vote if we get
there by 12.01 p.m.
Senator Hickenlooper. Okay. Well then I am going to just do
one--or two questions then. On Sunday, 12 Coloradans were badly
injured after a suspect threw incendiary devices and Molotov
cocktails into a crowd in a targeted Antisemitic attack. It was
not random. A deliberate hate crime.
Attacks like this are clearly unacceptable anywhere,
whether in Boulder, or outside a Jewish museum in Washington,
or a college campus, anywhere in this country. The Department
of Education's Office for Civil Rights is tasked with
investigating civil rights complaints, like those that so many
Jewish students across the country are experiencing.
Despite the intense surge in Antisemitic attacks, the
Administration has terminated nearly half of the staff in this
office. So Ms. Richey, I just wanted to ask you, you have said
that you are committed to thoroughly reviewing all complaints
submitted to OCR in a timely matter. With this great rise in
cases, how on earth do you plan to achieve this?
Ms. Richey. Thank you for the question, Senator. I think
what is going to require of me, if I am fortunate enough to be
confirmed and serve in this role, is to be very strategic when
I enter OCR, evaluate the current caseload, evaluate where we
are in the life of the complaints, look at the staff
distribution, look at organizational structure, and help the
Secretary come up with a very strategic plan for how we ensure
that OCR is able to meet its mission and its statutory purpose
to prioritize all complaints.
Senator Hickenlooper. I spent a lot of time when I was in
the private sector as an entrepreneur and a businessperson.
Usually when you lay out a plan and you see that you have half
the resources that you used to have and you had a hard time
keeping up in the old days, it is not good.
Let me just go to Retirement Savings for Americans Act and
Mr. Aronowitz. More than 50 million workers, including gig
economy, small business workers, don't have access to employer-
sponsored retirement plans, and I think no worker should be
left behind in this.
That is why we have introduced a bipartisan Retirement
Savings for Americans Act with Senator Tillis to allow all
workers to contribute savings to a Federal retirement account.
The bill also allows the Federal Government to make matching
contributions for lower-income workers.
Mr. Aronowitz, if confirmed, would you commit to working
with us to pass the Retirement Savings for Americans Act?
Mr. Aronowitz. I commit.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. You even know it. I love that.
Appreciate that. And if confirmed, how do you plan to use your
time at EBSA to help retirement become more accessible for more
workers, for all workers?
Mr. Aronowitz. I want to unlock the potential of the
employee benefit system, including innovative type of plans
like association health plans, ICRAs, and pooled employer
plans. I want to work with Congress on anything that will allow
independent contractors to have the dignity of retirement
savings and health security.
Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate that. And I won't
ask this question, but Chairman Cassidy and I both--I am
dyslexic. He knows more about dyslexia than I do, but I do
think that early literacy is something that we can all agree
that is something we can make huge progress on.
The Administration is trying to cut funding and have
terminated I think 60, almost two-thirds of the people at the
Institute of Educational Sciences, which administers this
assessment.
I just want to urge you, not to answer a question, but make
sure that we get those resources where they can do good,
because this is something we know how to fix. We know how to--
we have made so many advances. So, anyway, thank you. Yield
back.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you
all. Thank you for being here today. For any Senator wishing to
ask additional questions, questions for the record will be due
at 5.00 p.m. tomorrow, June 6. The Committee stands adjourned.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Response by Daniel Aronowitz to questions of Sen. Hawley
Question 1. The Biden administration attempted to weaken
protections for workers through its rule authorizing plan fiduciaries
to consider environmental, social, and governance (ESG) factors.
Thankfully, the Department of Labor announced it would not defend this
policy.
Question 1(a). If confirmed, what steps would you take at EBSA
to ensure workers are protected from woke and inefficient ESG
investing?
Answer 1(a). I am committed to EBSA's mission in ensuring the
retirement security of American workers and their families. EBSA will
uphold the highest standards of fiduciary responsibility to ensure that
all plan fiduciaries meet ERISA's stringent fiduciary duty of loyalty
and act solely in the best interests of plan participants and their
beneficiaries. To meet the fiduciary duty of loyalty, plan fiduciaries
must operate with no ulterior motive, including without any non-
financial ESG motive, in choosing any plan investment.
Response by David Keeling to questions of Sen. Hawley
Question 1. How did your time at Amazon and UPS inform your
understanding of safety standards for warehouse workers?
Answer 1. I retired from UPS as the Vice President of Global EHS,
after a 37-year career. After retiring from UPS, I was asked to assist
at Amazon with some vehicle and on-road safety improvements. This
included building out a team to evaluate and improve vehicle technology
and crash prevention programs. In my approximately 22 months at Amazon,
I had very limited exposure to Amazon's warehousing operations. I was
not asked to engage in these areas of the business and did not oversee
these business units. However, during my time at UPS, I was responsible
for all safety operations including all on-road and warehousing
operations. I am very familiar with the opportunities surrounding risk
and injury reduction in these operations including recent advancements
in processes and technologies that reduce ergonomic and repetitive
motion exposures.
Question 2. If confirmed, what policies will you implement at OSHA
to ensure that workers at warehouses across the country are protected?
Answer 2. I am very familiar with the opportunities surrounding
risk and injury reduction in these operations including recent
advancements in processes and technologies that reduce ergonomic and
repetitive motion exposures. As discussed with your staff, if
confirmed, I very much look forward to working with you to advance the
safety of warehouse workers and toward the President's and Secretary of
Labor's goal of ensuring the safety of all American workers.
Question 3. If confirmed, do you commit to working with this
Committee to advance common-sense reforms that ensure warehouse workers
have reasonable protections in the workplace?
Answer 3. If confirmed, I look forward and commit to working with
you and your team to realize the best path forward in warehouse worker
safety.
Question 4. If confirmed, what policies will you implement at OSHA
to ensure small businesses are treated fairly and do not face undue
burdens?
Answer 4. As mentioned during my Committee testimony, cooperation
and collaboration with industry partners, companies with advanced
safety cultures, and key union programs. are essential to ensuring that
OSHA meets its obligation and mission.
Using AI and predictive analytics to better understand risk
reduction opportunities and enable proactive enforcement action may be
an option for OSHA to better meet its stated purpose.
Through partnerships with industry organizations, we can better
reach those companies that have been reticent to engage with OSHA in
the past. If confirmed, I intend to bring all stakeholders to the table
to reach employers of all sizes and engage their workers in fostering
real and lasting improvement.
Response by Kimberly Richey to questions of Sen. Hawley
Question 1. The Biden administration actively worked to undermine
religious freedom protections in K-12 schools and at institutions of
higher education. If confirmed, will you issue regulations and guidance
to protect the religious liberty of students at public institutions?
Answer 1. I am proud that in 2020, the Department finalized the
Religious Liberty and Free Inquiry regulation to help ensure that
institutions uphold fundamental rights guaranteed by the First
Amendment, including protections for freedom of speech, association,
press, religion, assembly, petition, and academic freedom. Should I be
confirmed, I commit to engaging with Department leadership, including
OCR leadership and staff, to identify ways OCR can strengthen and
promote religious liberty and hold institutions accountable for
violating the religious liberty of students and staff, consistent with
OCR's statutory authority; I will examine the feasibility of rule
promulgation, consistent with OCR's authority. I also commit to
partnering with the Department of Justice to support enforcement
actions focused exclusively on protecting the rights of individuals to
fully and freely engage in religious activity in schools and
institutions.
Question 2. As you may remember, the Biden DOJ targeted parents
protesting critical race theory at school board meetings. If confirmed,
do you commit to supporting the free speech rights and other
fundamental rights of parents when it comes to their children's
education?
Answer 2. I am fully committed to safeguarding and protecting the
fundamental rights of parents, guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, to
direct their children's upbringing, including the right to make
decisions regarding their child's education without government
interference or obstruction. I am proud of my previous work,
specifically in response to the DOJ's efforts, to educate, support, and
empower parents with tools they need to access information, engage with
school districts, and exercise their constitutionally protected rights.
Response by Penny Schwinn to questions of Sen. Hawley
Question 1. The Education Recovery Scorecard recently released a
report demonstrating significant learning losses, particularly in
reading and math scores, and indicating a slow recovery in nearly every
state.
As we expected, draconian school closures during COVID contributed
to these immense learning losses, and many districts have yet to
rebound. If confirmed, what will your strategy be to help these
students?
Answer 1. The learning loss our Country is facing is both real and
urgent--and it was worsened by prolonged school closures that ignored
both the data and the needs of children. In Tennessee, we made the
decision to reopen schools early, with our first in-person program
beginning in July 2020, a commitment to putting students first. By
reopening schools early and investing in targeted interventions,
Tennessee was one of six states to see a positive return on investment
on COVID funding related student outcomes.
If confirmed, my priorities will center on using my experience and
expertise to effectively design and implement the vision of the
President and the Secretary--focused on empowering families, improving
outcomes, and restoring local leadership in education. Specifically,
raising literacy and academic achievement, especially in early grades
where gaps form quickly and persist; expanding real school choice so
every family can access high-quality options that fit their needs; and
streamlining Federal programs to reduce bureaucracy, eliminate
inefficiencies, prioritize strong data and accountability, and ensure
dollars reach students--not systems. Each of these priorities is about
putting students first and delivering results that matter.
Question 2. You served in a statewide role during the height of the
COVID pandemic. What did that experience teach you about the importance
of leading with moral clarity during a time of crisis, and how will
that affect your service at the Department of Education?
Answer 2. Leading during COVID taught me that effective crisis
leadership requires more than decisiveness--it demands alignment,
humility, and constant communication. You can't assume everyone is on
the same page, even with the best of intentions. Strong systems are
essential to ensure alignment with leadership priorities, reinforce
mission clarity for the team, and surface both operational risks and
non-negotiable principles. If confirmed, I'll bring those lessons with
me--leading with clarity, integrity, and a steady focus on what's best
for students and families.
______
Response by Penny Schwinn to questions of Sen. Sanders
Question 1. On March 28th, the Department illegally terminated
previously approved late liquidation agreements for nearly $4 billion
of K-12 funding under the Elementary and Secondary School Emergency
Relief Fund, forcing states to re-apply. The Vermont Agency of
Education has submitted 80 applications from 19 school districts. Would
you commit to reviewing these applications and approving them if they
are consistent with all Federal statutory requirements?
Answer 1. I do not believe it appropriate for me to commit to a
specific course of action without first having an opportunity to
consult with staff at the Department. Should I be confirmed, I will
seek that consultation.
Question 2. One month after President Trump nominated you to be
Deputy Secretary of Education, you registered an educational consulting
business, called New Horizon BluePrint Group (``New Horizon''), in the
state of Florida. However, you did not include New Horizon in your
initial disclosures to the Office of Government Ethics or the HELP
Committee. Please answer the questions below.
Why did you register New Horizon after your nomination?
Answer 2. New Horizon was registered in Florida by Mr. Fennoy as
part of a project that had been under discussion for several months
prior to my nomination. Once nominated, I began stepping away from the
effort. Although my name initially appeared on the registration, I was
removed within days. The entity had no income, clients, contracts, or
business activity, and it remained inactive. Based on that, I believed
it did not meet the threshold for disclosure. As soon as the issue was
identified, I worked with the Office of Government Ethics to ensure my
filings were accurate and complete.
Question 2(a). Did you intend to run New Horizon while holding
government office?
Answer 2(a). No. I had no intention of being involved in New
Horizon after my nomination.
Question 2(b). When did you inform the Trump administration about
New Horizon? What was the Administration's response?
Answer 2(b). As soon as the issue was brought to my attention, I
worked with the Office of Government Ethics to update my disclosure.
The Administration was supportive of ensuring all filings were accurate
and transparent.
Question 2(c). Why did you fail to include New Horizon in your
initial disclosures to the Office of Government Ethics and the and HELP
Committee?
Answer 2(c). The omission was unintentional. I believed the entity
did not meet the disclosure threshold because it had no income,
clients, contracts, or operations, and I was removed from its paperwork
shortly after it was filed. Once I became aware that it should be
included, I took immediate steps to disclose it and worked closely with
the Office of Government Ethics to ensure my filings were complete and
compliant.
Question 3. In your testimony, you mentioned your concerns about
the average teacher salary in comparison to bureaucrats in Washington.
Would you commit to working with me to increase teacher pay and provide
other necessary supports to attract and retain teachers in the
profession?
Answer 3. President Trump and Secretary McMahon have emphasized the
importance of supporting our Nation's teachers, and I share that
commitment. This is personal to me. I come from a family of educators--
my mother, siblings and cousins are teachers--and I began my own career
as a high school teacher. I understand firsthand the dedication it
takes: staying late to grade papers, spending weekends preparing for
lessons, and often covering classroom expenses out of pocket. As I have
often said, the most important factor inside school walls for student
success is the teacher in front of the classroom. If confirmed, I look
forward to conversations with you on these important issues.
Question 4. In 2024, you wrote an op-ed with Carrie Wright
advocating for increasing Federal education research. What are the
consequences to educators if the Federal Government stops funding
education research and statistical work, as observed by the
Department's cancellation of Federal education statistics contracts and
cancellation of all education research peer review processes?
Answer 4. Teachers and school leaders rely on clear, reliable data
to understand what's working and where improvement is needed. For
instance, the Department has and will continue to support the Nation's
Report Card. However, the research commissioned at the Department did
not always put students, families, and educators at the center.
I believe we can empower educators by making research more
relevant, accessible, and actionable. When I co-authored the op-ed with
Dr. Wright, we emphasized the importance of faster, more practical,
state-driven research that directly supports educators. The goal is not
to eliminate research--but to reform it. That means streamlining
processes, reducing bureaucracy, and prioritizing projects that
generate timely, actionable insights to drive student outcomes.
Question 5. By what date will States receive fiscal year 2025
preliminary allocations under Title I-C, Title II-A, Title III, and
Title IV-B?
Answer 5. As a former State Commissioner of Education, I understand
it is important for States to receive preliminary allocations in a
timely manner. However, I believe it would be premature for me to offer
a date without having had the benefit of consultation with the
Secretary and staff at the Department. If confirmed, I look forward to
working with you and Department officials on this issue.
Question 6. Are all States and public schools legally responsible
for serving students of any immigration status?
Answer 6. Yes.
Question 7. Under your leadership in Tennessee, how would you
administer 21st Century Learning programs to improve academic
achievement for students during summer and afterschool periods? What
are the consequences of not funding this program in fiscal year 2025 in
Tennessee?
Answer 7. During my time in Tennessee, we focused on ensuring every
dollar spent--especially on extended learning--delivered measurable
results for students. When used strategically, 21st Century programs
supported literacy gains and academic acceleration beyond the school
day. That said, all programs must demonstrate outcomes. If funding is
reduced, states should prioritize what works: high-dosage tutoring,
targeted enrichment, and partnerships with proven community providers.
The goal isn't simply to add more time, but to make better use of time.
If confirmed, I'm committed to helping states design outcome-based
models that maximize impact, even under tighter budgets.
Question 8. Do migrant students and families face specific
challenges in accessing a quality education? What responsibilities do
the Federal Government, State agencies, and local school districts have
to serve these students?
Answer 8. The Federal Government has a clear responsibility to set
expectations through programs like Title I, Part C, and to ensure
transparency and accountability in outcomes. State and local agencies
are best positioned to respond to the specific needs of their
communities. The role of the Federal Government should be to support
them--with flexibility, streamlined funding, and the tools to deliver
real results for migrant students.
Question 9. Do you commit to upholding the integrity of programs as
authorized under ESEA, including administering such programs as
intended by Congress?
Question 9(a). Do you commit to consulting Congress before
approving any major ESEA waivers?
Question 9(b). Do you commit to not issuing guidance documents that
do not align with a plain reading of ESEA, as you advocated in your
letter to the Trump administration?
Question 9(c). Do you commit to sharing with Congress a list of any
OESE-related grants that have been canceled or pulled at the same time
those cancellations are sent to grantees?
Answer 9(a)--9(c). If confirmed, I look forward to working with
leadership and staff at the Department to continuing to ensure that the
statutory obligations of ESEA as authorized by Congress are met in
accordance with the law. I further commit to following all requirements
for congressional engagement, consultation, and notification.
Question 10. Do you commit to making yourself and your staff
available to provide briefings to my staff on a reasonable basis
regarding any major announcements or changes out of OESE?
Answer 10. If confirmed, I commit to being responsive to the
requests of Members of Congress.
Response by Kimberly Richey to questions of Sen. Sanders
Question 1. What was the average caseload per Office for Civil
Rights (OCR) investigator during each fiscal year you served as Acting
Assistant Secretary?
Answer 1. I do not have access to OCR records and, as such, am
unable to provide historical data or information relating to average
caseloads during a specific time period. However, if confirmed, I
commit to keeping your office informed on Departmental efforts to
prioritize case resolution. As I stated at my confirmation hearing, I
am committed to ensuring that OCR has the resources it needs to
vigorously enforce Federal civil rights laws.
Question 2. The Department shared with the Committee recently that
investigators' caseloads have increased from 40 cases to over 120
cases. You said in your hearing you would ``strategically prioritize''
cases. What standards would you propose to prioritize which cases are
worth prioritizing?
Answer 2. I stated at my confirmation hearing that I would be
strategic in developing a plan to address the challenges facing OCR; I
also stated that I would equally prioritize complaints filed with OCR.
If confirmed, I will work closely with OCR leadership and staff to
fully understand how the office is currently managing resources and
find ways to optimize OCR's resources to ensure that all cases are
thoroughly investigated. Developing a strategic plan to address
complaint resolution may include evaluating OCR's current
organizational structure, how cases are currently distributed, and the
age of pending complaints, including case processing timeframes.
Question 3. How will you find and prioritize time-sensitive
complaints--such as a student with a disability who cannot access a
school facility--as compared to directed investigations that your
office initiates?
Answer 3. If confirmed, I will equally prioritize complaints filed
with OCR. While it is true that some complaints can be resolved more
expeditiously, OCR's goal must be to achieve compliance as quickly as
possible in all cases. OCR can utilize its various enforcement tools,
such as forms of early complaint resolution for example, to promptly
remedy noncompliance. I will work closely with OCR leadership and staff
to ensure that all complaints are resolved in a timely manner.
Question 4. Do you commit to following the processes outlined in
the OCR Case Processing Manual and all Federal and regulatory
requirements in carrying out Federal civil rights enforcement?
Answer 4. If confirmed, I commit to following the law in carrying
out my responsibilities as Assistant Secretary for Civil Rights. This
includes following the Constitution, the laws under OCR's authority,
and applicable regulations.
Question 5. How will you proceed with investigations that began
prior to your return to OCR that did not follow processes outlined in
the OCR Case Processing Manual? Do you commit to restarting
investigations that did not follow the appropriate processes?
Answer 5. It is not appropriate for me to commit to any specific
course of action without first reviewing ongoing cases and consulting
with Department leadership, including OCR leadership and staff. As a
nominee, I do not have the benefit of knowing the full scope of any
ongoing investigation or evaluation of evidence that led to specific
course of action in a particular case.
Question 6. Will you commit to treating all cases with the same
level of importance, regardless of directives to reprioritize case
processing by allegation type?
Answer 6. As I stated in my confirmation hearing, all cases are
important, and I am committed to vigorously enforcing all Federal civil
rights laws that OCR enforces and prioritizing all of OCR's complaints
with this goal in mind. I take my responsibilities to students and
families seriously and if confirmed, I commit to working tirelessly to
ensure all students have access to an education free from
discrimination and harassment.
Question 7. Do you commit to increasing transparency about the
number of open cases investigated by OCR by regularly posting and
updating a list of pending cases?
Answer 7. If confirmed, I commit to being responsive to the
requests of Members of Congress; I believe transparency is important.
As such, I commit to consulting with OCR leadership and staff regarding
this issue. I also commit to objectively weighing the benefits and risk
of posting this information, considering both the value of transparency
and the need to ensure OCR can access information and conduct thorough
investigations.
Question 8. Do you believe investigators should have local and
regional relationships with the educational institutions they
investigate or may investigate?
Answer 8. I believe it is most important for investigators to be
highly skilled attorneys who are capable of conducting thorough
investigations, resolving complex legal issues, and who understand the
role of OCR as a neutral and objective fact-finding law enforcement
agency. Possessing these skills, including the ability to objectively
apply the law, is far more important than geographic knowledge of a
particular region or having established relationships with recipients.
Question 9. Have you ever encouraged employees at the Department to
attend DEI trainings? Do you believe it was appropriate to put
employees on administrative leave for taking a DEI training that you,
or other senior Department staff in the first Trump administration,
suggested they take?
Answer 9. I have never encouraged anyone to participate in illegal
DEI activities. While I cannot comment on personnel actions for which I
have had no involvement or administrative actions taken by the
Department, I remain committed to prohibiting discrimination on the
basis of race, color, and national origin--including within OCR.
______
Response by Penny Schwinn to questions of Sen. Baldwin
Question 1. Last year, the Wisconsin Department of Public
Instruction issued a report which stated that over 80 percent of
Wisconsin elementary schools surveyed had at least one vacancy between
2022-2023, with a quarter of responding schools saying they were unable
to meet their hiring needs. If confirmed, what steps would you take to
address the nationwide teacher shortage?
Answer 1. Research has shown that the teacher shortages across the
country are hyper-local and content-area specific. A solution to such a
problem requires empowering local leaders to address the unique
barriers they have to teacher recruitment and retention. As
commissioner in Tennessee, I oversaw the first Federal teacher
apprenticeship in the U.S., and the largest set of Grow Your Own
programs in the country. These solutions work because they are based on
local contexts and are adaptable to each community's characteristics.
If confirmed, I will empower states to spend less time reporting up to
the Department of Education and more time working with districts to
support them in identifying solutions for their schools.
Question 2. What benefits did you see in Tennessee from
implementing a Grow Your Own teacher program?
Answer 2. At the state level, Grow Your Own programs were an
effective tool in Tennessee to address teacher shortages and build a
locally rooted educator workforce. They helped districts recruit from
within their own communities--paraprofessionals, career changers, and
high school graduates. This built stability, reduced turnover, and
ensured new teachers were better prepared and more invested. It's also
one of the few strategies with strong return on investment: states saw
cost savings, stronger retention, and improved outcomes for students.
That is why states may choose to invest in these programs.
Question 3. If confirmed, do you commit to following appropriations
laws and the Impoundment Control Act?
Answer 3. If confirmed, I will follow the law.
Response by Kimberly Richey to questions of Sen. Baldwin
Question 1. During your hearing, I raised concerns regarding the
Department of Education's interpretation for the Bostock decision while
you were serving as Acting Assistant Secretary. In your response, you
indicated that you believe Bostock should be applied to certain aspects
of a student's school experience but not others. Why do you feel the
word ``sex'' should have a different interpretation in Title IX of the
Civil Rights Act than it does in Title VII?
Answer 1. There are several reasons why the referenced opinion does
not control OCR's enforcement of Title IX. Aside from the fact that
Title IX and VII are different statutes with different anti-
discrimination language, the work and school environments are very
different. But, most significantly, the Court specifically rejected the
universal application of the decision. The Court stated that the
opinion did not apply to other Federal civil rights laws or legal
issues not before the Court. If confirmed, I am committed to vigorously
enforcing Title IX to protect all students, consistent with the
statutory language, OCR's regulations, and applicable Supreme Court
precedent.
Question 2. Since January 20, the Trump administration has
terminated at least 243 employees in the Department's Office of Civil
Rights and closed more than half of OCR regional offices. Caseloads per
investigator are estimated to have increased from 42 cases at a time to
approximately 86 cases per investigative staff. In the President's
budget request, the Office for Civil Rights budget will be cut by $49
million. What factors will you use to determine if additional staff
will be needed to ensure cases are given adequate attention and
resolved in a timely manner?
Answer 2. If confirmed, I will work with OCR leadership to
understand the current state of OCR's caseload, including evaluating
the types of pending cases, OCR's current organizational structure, how
cases are currently distributed, the age of pending complaints, and
case processing timeframes. I will work to develop a strategic plan and
consult with the Secretary and OCR leadership to ensure that OCR is
meeting its statutory mission and purpose. I remain committed to
ensuring that OCR has the resources it needs to do its job.
Question 3. During her confirmation hearing Secretary McMahon and I
had an exchange regarding her opinions on Title IX's protection against
sexual harassment and assault. Ms. McMahon stated she believes sexual
harassment that is severe or pervasive should be prohibited under Title
IX. Do you agree that sexual harassment that is severe or pervasive
should be prohibited under Title IX?
Answer 3. Based on Supreme Court precedent, school liability for
sexual harassment under Title IX uses, in relevant part, a ``severe and
pervasive'' standard.
Question 4. If confirmed, do you commit to following appropriations
laws and the Impoundment Control Act?
Answer 3. If confirmed, I will follow the law.
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Response by Penny Scwinn to questions of Sen. Hassan
Question 1. President Trump seems to be afraid of research,
transparency, and accountability as he directs agencies to slash
research budgets, reduce funding for data collection, and gut agency
expertise.
For example, the Administration has decimated the division at the
Education Department devoted to the National Assessment of Educational
Progress, which is mandated by Congress and is a valuable tool for
tracking academic outcomes.
Without the National Assessment of Educational Progress and
Department of Education research, parents and policymakers will have
less information about how our Nation's children are performing and how
best to direct resources.
Dr. Schwinn, if confirmed, do you commit to reversing the
significant cuts at the Department that have undermined its mission?
Answer 1. I am aware there is significant interest in the Institute
of Education Sciences and the National Assessment of Educational
Progress (NAEP). I believe assessment and accountability are critical
components of improving outcomes. The NAEP for 2026 is already
underway. The Secretary has been clear about her commitment to ensuring
the NAEP assessment continues to provide invaluable data on learning
across the U.S. noting it is the ``benchmark by which we evaluate the
state of the American education system.'' If confirmed, I look forward
to working with the Secretary to support the NAEP and improving
outcomes for all students.
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Responses by Penny Scwinn to questions of Sen. Hickenlooper
Question 1. As you know, the achievement levels in reading for 4th
graders have been trending downward since 2019. One of the only ways we
actually know about that achievement gap is from the National
Assessment of Educational Progress. The Administration is trying to cut
funding and have terminated 64 percent of staff at the Institute of
Educational Sciences which administers this assessment. With so much of
this team fired, how will we know if kids are struggling to read? And
how will we be able to fix what we are not able to measure? If
confirmed, will you commit to making early literacy a priority,
including continuing to track and measure student achievement?
Answer 1. I believe assessment and accountability are critical
components of improving outcomes. The NAEP for 2026 is already
underway. The Secretary has been clear about her commitment to ensuring
the NAEP assessment continues to provide invaluable data on learning
across the U.S. noting it is the ``benchmark by which we evaluate the
state of the American education system.'' If confirmed, I look forward
to working with the Secretary to support the NAEP and improving
outcomes for all students.
Question 2. Academic advisors at high schools often make the
difference in providing students with the help they need to choose the
right career path. One of the major barriers we hear about when it
comes to advancing apprenticeship, is that academic advisors are often
so trained to focus on the 4-year college track, they may not even
realize what other apprenticeship or workforce training options are
available to students. If confirmed, what will you do to ensure best
practices are shared with high schools across the country so that
academic advisors are able to counsel students on all of the
opportunities available to them?
Answer 2. Advisors play a critical role, and too often they're
equipped with a narrow playbook that defaults to a 4-year college path.
We must elevate career pathways--including registered apprenticeships,
industry-recognized credentials, and dual-enrollment programs--as high-
quality options, not second-tier alternatives. Every student should
graduate with a clear plan and access to real opportunities. That means
equipping advisors with the tools, data, and flexibility they need to
guide students toward success--whether that's through college, career
training, or both. That starts with giving advisors the tools, data,
and flexibility to guide students toward success on their own terms.
Question 3. The Native American and Alaska Native Children in
School (NAM) grant program provides support for teaching English
language and the teaching and learning of Native American languages in
schools. Projects that receive these grants include teacher training,
curriculum development, evaluation to support student instruction, and
parent-community participation. If confirmed, will you commit to
supporting this program and ensuring that grantees continue to receive
the funding that they deserve?
Answer 3. I deeply respect the unique cultures, languages, and
histories of Native American and Alaska Native communities. If
confirmed, I'll work to ensure programs demonstrate strong outcomes and
that funding is used effectively to support students. When local
communities lead, and when we measure results, we see real impact. I'm
committed to honoring tribal sovereignty, supporting high-quality
instruction, and ensuring programs like this deliver value for students
and families.
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Responses by Penny Schwinn to questions of Sen. Markey
Question 1. Do you support President Trump's position that the
Department of Education be dismantled?
Answer 1. Yes, I support the President's vision of returning more
authority over education to states and local communities, ensuring that
decisions are made as close to students as possible.
Question 1(a). Do you believe there should be a Deputy Secretary of
Education?
Answer 1(a). Yes. Unless Congress deems otherwise, there should be
a Deputy Secretary of Education.
Question 2. Do you believe that the Federal Government adequately
funds public schools in this country?
Answer 2. The United States spends more on education per pupil, at
both the K-12 and post-secondary levels, than almost any country in the
world. I believe education is fundamentally a state and local
responsibility, but the Federal Government plays an essential role in
supporting students, particularly through its enforcement of Federal
civil rights laws. While total Federal education funding is limited--
about 8-10 percent of overall K-12 spending--it is vital that those
dollars are used strategically and reach students directly. Rather than
expanding bureaucracy, we should simplify funding streams, reduce
administrative burdens, and expand parents' ability to direct how those
dollars are spent. States and local districts are best positioned to
determine how to allocate resources effectively, and the Federal
Government should focus on empowering them to do so and transparently
reporting those outcomes.
Question 3. During Secretary McMahon's confirmation hearing, the
Secretary stated, ``The President is not saying that we should cut
funding to public education.'' Yet since then, Secretary McMahon and
President Trump clawed back $106 million of Federal funds from
Massachusetts public schools and $2 billion nationwide. They then
submitted a Presidential Budget Request that would slash K-12 funding
by $4.5 billion in fiscal year 2026.
Question 3(a). Do you support cutting funding by $4.5 billion for
public schools?
Question 3(b). How do you suggest local school districts make up
for the loss of $4.5 billion in Federal funding?
Question 3(c). How do you suggest local school districts in
Massachusetts accommodate for disruption caused by the claw back of
$106 million?
Question 3(d). How would you respond to a student who asked why
their local school district lost funding?
Question 3(e). How would you respond to an educator or member of
school staff who asked why their school district lost funding?
Question 3(f). How would you respond to a parent who asked why
their school district lost funding?
Answer 3(a)--3(f). I support the President's vision to reduce
bureaucracy, increase transparency, and give states and local school
districts more flexibility to use funds in ways that best serve their
communities. The goal is not simply to spend more--it's to spend
smarter by situating dollars and decision-making closest to the
students these programs affect, with a clear return on investment and
better outcomes for kids. I have not been a part of actions taken with
respect to Fiscal Year (FY) 2025 funding, so I cannot comment on those
decisions. I have also not been involved in the development of the
fiscal year 26 budget. Ultimately, it is up to Congress to appropriate
funds and decide on funding levels. If confirmed, I look forward to
being a part of the conversations related to the best use of Federal
dollars.
Question 4. In the President's Fiscal Year 2026 Budget Request, the
President has requested eliminating the following sources of funding to
K-12 schools: money for states and local communities to teach migrant
children, for full-service community schools, and for teacher and
school leader incentive grants.
Question 4(a). Do you support eliminating funding for each of these
programs?
Question 4(b). How do you suggest school districts make up for the
loss in this funding?
Answer 4(a)--4(b). As I was not involved in the development of the
fiscal year 26 budget, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on
decisions that were made. Ultimately, it is up to Congress to
appropriate funds and decide on funding levels. If confirmed, I look
forward to being a part of the conversations related to the best use of
Federal dollars.
Question 5. In the President's Fiscal Year 2026 Budget Request,
sometimes referred to as the ``skinny budget,'' the President has
requested eliminating funding for Ready to Learn educational media
programming. Do you support eliminating funding for this program?
Answer 5. As I was not involved in the development of the fiscal
year 26 budget, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on
decisions that were made. Ultimately, it is up to Congress to
appropriate funds and decide on funding levels. If confirmed, I look
forward to being a part of the conversations related to the best use of
Federal dollars.
Question 6. In the President's Fiscal Year 2026 Budget Request,
sometimes referred to as the ``skinny budget,'' the President has
requested eliminating funding for adult basic education and literacy
programs. Do you support eliminating funding for this program?
Answer 6. As I was not involved in the development of the fiscal
year 26 budget, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on
decisions that were made. Ultimately, it is up to Congress to
appropriate funds and decide on funding levels. If confirmed, I look
forward to being a part of the conversations related to the best use of
Federal dollars.
Question 7. The Inflation Reduction Act established tax incentives
and grant programs that can lower energy costs through installation of
clean energy technologies, providing energy efficiency improvements,
and purchasing clean school buses. Do you support these tax credits and
programs, or do you think schools should be forced to pay for these
necessary upgrades on their own?
Answer 7. I do not have enough information to provide an opinion on
this issue with respect to the role of the Department of Education.
Should I be confirmed, I look forward to discussing this issue with
staff at the Department.
Question 8. According to a report from the Private Equity
Stakeholder Project, since 2007, the education sector has seen
increases each year in deals made by private equity firms and
investors.
Question 8(a). What is your position on the role of private equity
firms and investors in education?
Question 8(b). What types of guardrails should be placed on private
equity investment in education?
Question 8(c). What is your response to the possibility that
reduced public funding in public education will translate to an
increase in private equity investment in public education?
Question 8(d). In your confirmation hearing, you stated that
education should be directed by those closest to students including
parents, school districts, and states. Do you believe that private
equity firms should be developing curriculum, hiring teachers, or
otherwise investing in K-12 education?
Answer 8(a)--8(d). Innovation and efficiency can come from the
private sector--but strong guardrails are essential. Any entity
operating in public education, including private equity firms, must be
held to the highest standards of transparency, accountability, and
student outcomes.
Curriculum, staffing, and student support decisions should rest
with those closest to students: states, districts, and families. The
Federal Government has a responsibility to set clear expectations,
protect student data, and ensure that all partners deliver real
educational value.
Question 9. The Supreme Court has ruled that the Fourteenth
Amendment of the U.S. Constitution forbids states from denying
undocumented children the right to attend a public school due to their
immigration status. Do you commit to ensuring that Federal law is
followed as it pertains to school enrollment?
Answer 9. I commit to following the law.
Question 10. On his first day in office, the Trump administration
issued a directive rescinding the Department of Homeland Security's
guidelines titled ``Guidelines for Enforcement Actions in or Near
Protected Areas.''
Question 10(a). Do you support President Trump's directive to grant
the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (``ICE'') the authority to
take immigration enforcement actions at or near schools, including pre-
schools, primary and secondary schools, and vocational or trade
schools?
Answer 10(a). The Department of Education does not have
jurisdictional responsibility over U.S Immigration and Customs
Enforcement. As an education leader, my focus is ensuring that every
student receives access to a high-quality education.
Question 10(b). Do you support President Trump's directive to grant
the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (``ICE'') the authority to
take immigration enforcement actions at places where children gather,
such as before-and after-school care centers, school bus stops, and
recreation centers?
Answer 10(b). The Department of Education does not have
jurisdictional responsibility over U.S Immigration and Customs
Enforcement. As an education leader, my focus is ensuring that every
student receives access to a high-quality education.
Question 11. The Borrower Defense program provides student debt
relief to borrowers who were defrauded by predatory institutions.
Question 11(a). If confirmed, do you commit to allocating adequate
resources to effectively carry out reviews and processing for borrower
defense claims?
Answer 11(a). As I have not had the benefit of consultation with
the Secretary or experts at the Department, I am unable to commit to
any specific course of action. I will however commit to following the
law and looking into this matter, should I be confirmed.
Question 11(b). Do you commit to discharging any outstanding debt
already approved for discharge under the borrower defense program?
Answer 11(b). As I have not had the benefit of consultation with
the Secretary or experts at the Department, I am unable to commit to
any specific course of action. I will however commit to following the
law and looking into this matter, should I be confirmed.
Question 11(c). The budget reconciliation bill that recently passed
the House of Representatives removes protections for student borrowers
that attended for-profit colleges. Do you believe the Department of
Education should maintain the authority to investigate for-profit
schools and cancel the loans of students at these colleges who are
saddled with unaffordable debt?
Answer 11(c). If confirmed, I can commit to following the law and
continuing to carry out the statutory responsibilities of the
Department of Education. What those responsibilities are is the
responsibility of Congress to decide.
Question 12. Three million educational support professionals
including paraeducators, classroom assistants, bus drivers, custodial
workers, and others provide crucial services to students and schools.
One third of education support professionals who work full-time earn
less than $25,000 per year.
Question 12(a). If confirmed, do you commit to supporting efforts
to raise the wages of educational support professionals?
Question 12(b). If confirmed, do you commit to supporting increased
Federal funding for school districts to support professional
development and credentialing programs for education support
professionals?
Question 12(c). If confirmed, do you commit to supporting efforts
to improve benefits for education support professionals, including
access to affordable and high-quality health care?
Answer 12(a)--12(c). I believe that school personnel matters,
including pay, benefits, training, and development are best left to
each state and locality to decide. Further, I support the President's
vision of returning more authority over education to states and local
communities, ensuring that decisions are made as close to students as
possible. Important personnel decisions, including those pertaining to
salary and benefits, rest with the states, not Washington.
Question 13. Do you believe that workers in public schools should
have the right to unionize and collectively bargain?
Answer 13. I believe that school personnel matters are best left to
states to decide.
Question 14. Your ethics paperwork and recent reporting raises
concerns about your spending of public dollars as Vice President for
PK-12 and Pre-Bachelors Programs at University of Florida. Please
comment on whether you believe your spending on travel and other
expenses reflected good stewardship of public dollars.
Answer 14. I take the stewardship of public dollars seriously and
have always worked to ensure that spending aligns with policy, purpose,
and public trust. All expenses at the University of Florida were
approved through standard processes, and I followed institutional
guidelines at every step. My travel was limited to essential in-person
needs to reduce costs, and my role operated without a dedicated budget
or team, which kept overall expenses low. I cannot speak to the
practices of other departments, but I am confident in the integrity of
my own actions and remain committed to transparency and accountability.
Question 15. In your written testimony, you mentioned your support
for ``honest accountability.'' If confirmed, do you commit to
responding to inquiries and document requests from Members of Congress
in an accurate and timely manner?
Answer 15. If confirmed, I will work with the Office of Legislation
and congressional Affairs, as appropriate, to be as responsive as
possible to all congressional inquiries and requests for information in
a timely and thoughtful way.
Question 16. If confirmed, do you commit to cooperating with any
investigations conducted by the Department of Education Office of the
Inspector General?
Answer 16. If confirmed, I commit to following all laws,
regulations, and Department policies and procedures regarding
engagement with the Department's Office of the Inspector General in my
capacity as Deputy Secretary.
Responses of Kimberly Richey to questions of Sen. Markey
Question 1. If confirmed, do you commit to reversing any funding
cuts or other sanctions imposed upon universities that were not
afforded due process they are entitled to under the constitution and
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act?
Answer 1. It would not be appropriate for me to commit to any
specific course of action without first reviewing ongoing cases and
consulting with Department leadership, including OCR leadership and
staff. As a nominee, I do not have the benefit of knowing the full
scope of any ongoing investigation or evaluation of evidence that led
to specific course of action in a particular case. Should I be
confirmed, I commit to following the law.
Question 2. If confirmed, do you commit to ensuring all actions
taken by the Office of Civil Rights under your leadership comply with
Title VI of the Civil Rights Act?
Answer 2. If confirmed, I commit to following the law.
Question 3. If confirmed, do you commit to ensuring all actions
taken by the Office of Civil Rights under your leadership comply with
the Constitution of the United States?
Answer 3. If confirmed, I commit to following the law.
______
Responses of Penny Schwinn to questions of Sen. Alsobrooks
Cutting Education Research at IES
Question 1. You've advocated for a DARPA-style investment in
education research, calling for a National Center for Advanced
Development at the Institute of Education Sciences (IES) to pursue
``outside-the-box R and D'' for students. Yet, one of the first actions
taken by this Administration was to cut $900 million in IES contracts
and lay off nearly 90 percent of its staff. Do you still believe, as
you wrote, that ``investments in education research can't wait''?
Question 1(a). If confirmed, will you push for the resumption of
canceled IES contracts?
Answer 1--1(a). I am aware there is significant interest in the
Institute of Education Sciences. However, I cannot comment on any
actions taken by the Department as I do not have the knowledge or
benefit of all the information and discussions that went into them. I
believe accountability is a critical component of improving outcomes.
If confirmed, I look forward to being a part of the conversation with
the Secretary and Department leadership around the best use of Federal
dollars and how to most effectively support students.
State and Federal Collaboration
Question 2. Maryland has invested significantly in closing
achievement gaps through the Blueprint for Maryland's Future. How would
you support state-led efforts like ours to promote educational equity,
and what role should the Federal Government play in complementing these
initiatives?
Answer 2. Maryland's efforts to improve student outcomes through
state-led initiatives like the Blueprint highlight the important state
role in advancing education outcomes. The Federal Government should aim
to support these efforts by reducing administrative barriers, promoting
the exchange of effective practices, and ensuring transparency--while
respecting state decision-making. If confirmed, I'd work to make sure
Federal programs complement, not complicate, bold state reforms.
Question 3. The Maryland delegation sent a letter requesting the
reinstatement of $98 million in Elementary and Secondary School
Emergency Relief (ESSER) funds that were clawed back by the Department
of Education. To date, we have not received a formal response or update
from the Department. Will you commit to providing the Maryland
delegation with a written update on the status of this request within
30 days of your confirmation?
Question 3(a). Will you commit to expediting this request within 30
days of your confirmation so that Maryland's state education agencies
and local education authorities can proceed with clarity for planning
the Fiscal Year 26 budget?
Answer 3--3(a). I understand these issues are currently the subject
of litigation. I do not believe it appropriate for me to commit to a
specific course of action, especially on matters subject to litigation,
without first having an opportunity to consult with staff at the
Department and, as appropriate, at the Department of Justice. Should I
be confirmed, I will seek that consultation.
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[Whereupon, at 11:56 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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