[Senate Hearing 119-87]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 119-87
HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 4, 2025
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
60-596 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
John Boozman, Arkansas Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana Ranking Member
Thom Tillis, North Carolina Patty Murray, Washington
Dan Sullivan, Alaska Bernard Sanders, Vermont
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Kevin Cramer, North Dakota Margaret Wood Hassan, New
Tommy Tuberville, Alabama Hampshire
Jim Banks, Indiana Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
Tim Sheehy, Montana Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
Ruben Gallego, Arizona
Elissa Slotkin, Michigan
David Shearman, Staff Director
Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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June 4, 2025
SENATORS
Page
Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas............. 1
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from
Connecticut.................................................... 4
Hon. Tommy Tuberville, U.S. Senator from Alabama................. 8
Hon. Patty Murray, U.S. Senator from Washington.................. 9
Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire....... 11
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine................. 12
Hon. Mazie K. Hirono, U.S. Senator from Hawaii................... 14
Hon. Tammy Duckworth, U.S. Senator from Illinois................. 16
NOMINEES
Panel I
Hon. Cheryl Mason, Nominee To Be Inspector General, U.S.
Department of Veterans Affairs................................. 2
Panel II
Don Bergin, Nominee To Be Assistant Secretary for Congressional
and Legislative Affairs, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs... 20
APPENDIX
Opening Statement
Hon. Richard Blumenthal.......................................... 35
Introducers
Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina............... 41
Hon. John Cornyn, U.S. Senator from Texas........................ 45
Nomination Material
Hon. Cheryl Mason, Nominee
Prepared statement............................................. 49
Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:
Hon. Jerry Moran............................................. 52
Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 58
Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:
Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 66
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr....................................... 78
Hon. Marsha Blackburn........................................ 82
Hon. Bill Cassidy............................................ 84
Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................ 85
Nomination Material (cont.)
Don Bergin, Nominee
Prepared statement............................................. 115
Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:
Hon. Jerry Moran............................................. 119
Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 125
Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:
Hon. Richard Blumenthal...................................... 132
Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................ 133
Submissions for the Record
Excerpt provided by Senator Duckworth of Public Law 110-409,
Section 3(b), ``Inspector General Act of 1978''................ 147
Government Executive article ``VA forces staff in workforce
reduction discussions to sign non-disclosure agreements''...... 148
The New York Times article ``8 Inspectors General Fired by Trump
File Lawsuit Seeking Reinstatement''........................... 150
The New York Times article ``Fired Inspectors General Raise
Alarms as Trump Administration Moves to Finalize Purge''....... 153
Senator Blumenthal letter dated May 22, 2025 to The Honorable
Tammy Hull, Acting Chair, Council of the Inspectors General on
Integrity and Efficiency (CIGIE)............................... 159
Council of the Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency
(CIGIE) response to Senator Blumenthal letter dated May 22,
2025........................................................... 161
Government Executive article ``NDAs for VA employees working on
staff reduction plans prompts House Dems probe''............... 165
Government Executive article ``Trump's picks for oversight roles
will jeopardize independent scrutiny of government operations,
watchdog group says''.......................................... 167
Government Executive article ``VA blocks its benefits employees
from speaking freely to the department's lawyers''............. 170
HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING
NOMINATIONS
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WEDNESDAY, JUNE 4, 2025
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:06 p.m., in
Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Moran, Tuberville, Blumenthal, Murray,
Hirono, Hassan, King, and Duckworth.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS
Chairman Moran. Good afternoon, everyone. This hearing will
come to order. Good afternoon and thank you for your presence
here today. We're going to consider the nominees for the VA
Inspector General and the Assistant Secretary for Congressional
and Legislative Affairs. We'll do so respectively, two
different panels. These are two really important and I think
difficult positions, and I'm pleased to have two candidates
that are committed to--for our consideration, to pursue and
perform these duties of these positions.
I've spoken many times here in this hearing and elsewhere
about the importance of having a Senate-confirmed Inspector
General. The IGs work is essential to identifying areas where
the VA is falling short, and this Committee's job would be much
harder without the help of an Inspector General.
Before us today is a lawyer, a military spouse, a leader
who has been appointed to high level positions within the VA by
both President Biden and President Trump, and I look forward to
hearing this afternoon how Cheryl Mason, the nominee for VA
Inspector General, would continue the IGs independent
oversight, if she's confirmed.
Similarly, I look forward to hearing how Don Bergin, the
nominee to be Assistant Secretary of Congressional and
Legislative Affairs would improve transparency, timeliness, and
substance of the VA's communications with this Committee and
Congress as a whole, if he is confirmed.
Regardless of which party is in the White House, or which
party has control of Congress, the Department of Veterans
Affairs has never been as open and as forthcoming as they
should be. I'm hopeful that Don, a veteran lawyer and former
congressional liaison for the Marine Corps, and a former Senate
staffer, will be able to detail his plans for helping the VA
quickly improve on that front in his testimony today.
I appreciate both nominees and their family members for
being here today, and for their interest in taking on these
roles. In the absence of Senator Blumenthal, Senator Murray,
anything you want to say?
Senator Murray. I will just ask to put his statement in the
record, and welcome Ms. Mason to the Committee.
Chairman Moran. Without objection.
[The opening statement of Senator Blumenthal appears on
page 35 of the Appendix.]
Senator Tillis and Senator Cornyn had planned on being here
today to introduce Ms. Mason and Mr. Bergin, but due to their
scheduling circumstances are unable to join us. And I ask
unanimous consent that their statements be submitted for the
record. Without objection.
[Introduction statements from Senator Tillis and Senator
Cornyn appear on pages 41 and 45 of the Appendix.]
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, before being recognized for your
opening statement, please stand and raise your right hand. Do
you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to
give before the United States Senate Committee on Veterans
Affairs will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Ms. Mason. I do.
Chairman Moran. Thank you. Thank you very much. And Cheryl
Mason, you are now recognized for your statement.
PANEL I
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STATEMENT OF HON. CHERYL MASON, NOMINEE TO BE INSPECTOR
GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator. Chairman Moran,
distinguished Members of this Committee, I'm honored to sit
before you today as the President's nominee to be Inspector
General of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
I'm joined today by my husband of 39 years, Brett Mason,
Lieutenant Colonel U.S. Air Force, retired, our youngest son,
Trevor, and my brother's widow and his adult children. Our
oldest son, Bryan, sends his regrets as he was unable to
attend.
Since 1865, when President Lincoln proclaimed our Nation's
duty was to care for those who had borne the battle, their
widows, and orphans, our country has made care for our veterans
a tenet. This is the core mission of VA. If confirmed, I pledge
to uphold my lifelong commitment to the Constitution and to our
veterans, their families, survivors, and caregivers.
My commitment to those who serve this country is deep and
personal. As an Air Force veteran's spouse, daughter of a Navy
veteran, sister of an Army Guardsman, and proud American, I am
one of those survivors and a dependent such as those VA serves.
My father served in the U.S. Navy during World War II, but he
lost his battle with mental health and died by suicide when I
was 4 years old.
My family lived in Appalachia, and we didn't know about the
benefits and care he could have received from VA. And as I sit
here today, decades later, there are still veterans in this
country who do not know about the veteran services they can
receive. While others wait much too long for their benefits and
care. This is not acceptable.
I also lost my only brother, that Army National Guardsman,
to suicide when he was 34 years old. My brother's widow and
children received no benefits following his death, and they had
to fight to get him recognized as a veteran. This is not
acceptable.
It was my mother, a Rosie the Riveter, during World War II
and a public servant, government teacher for more than 30
years, who steered our family through these challenging times.
She instilled in me the value of public service, the importance
of the Constitution and the U.S. Government, and the impact of
making a difference to others and to our Nation.
My experiences as a military spouse amplified my
understanding of the tremendous sacrifice made by the men and
women who commit themselves to the defense of this Nation. When
I became a lawyer, I made it my lifelong commitment to serve
veterans and military families.
With more than 30 years as a government employee, to
include 28 at Department of Veterans Affairs, I have countless
hours of service to veterans and their families as a veterans
law judge and as a VA attorney. It was an honor to be nominated
by President Trump in 2017 and advanced by this Committee under
the leadership of Senators Isakson and Tester, and confirmed by
the Senate to serve as the first woman and military spouse,
chairman of the Board of Veterans Appeals.
And as chairman, I worked with Members of Congress and
Senators and staff of this Committee with its long history of
bipartisan accomplishments and commitment on behalf of American
veterans, to address mental health and suicide, increase
accountability, and improve access to benefits and care and
services with the Appeals Modernization Act, the MISSION Act,
the Blue Water Navy Act, and the VA Telehealth Modernization
Act. I was humbled by Senator Tester's tribute to me in the
January 2023rd Congressional Record regarding my advocacy and
commitment to veterans through my many years of service in the
government.
It's an honor to be nominated by President Trump and
considered by this Committee to be the VA Inspector General. I
remain dedicated to ensuring veterans receive VA benefits,
care, and services they earned. And I strongly believe that the
VA has to be held accountable to deliver such. Our veterans and
their families are counting on it.
My leadership and lifelong experience demonstrate my
impartiality, my expertise, my skills, and judgment to be a
highly effective Inspector General. My professional legal
career provided me with valuable expertise and experience in
investigations, audits, and inspections, focusing on the facts
and the evidence, and applying the law.
The VA Inspector General plays a crucial and independent
role in ensuring the VA meets its mission by promoting
efficiency and eliminating fraud, waste, and abuse. Recent
reports from this body, OIG, GAO, and others, highlight the
need for improvements of VA's services to veterans. If
confirmed, I will use the authority provided by law to
implement strong oversight, and strengthen programs, and
policy, and culture at VA.
As chairman and veterans law judge, I acted independently,
issuing decisions to be followed by VA, guarding the
impartiality and independence of the board, and I will do the
same as if confirmed as IG. This is indeed a great
responsibility, and I can assure you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
Member Blumenthal, Members of this Committee, that if
confirmed, I will uphold that trust on behalf of all men and
women who serve, all those who have served, and the American
public.
Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Mason appears on page 49 of
the Appendix.]
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, thank you very much. Senator
Blumenthal, the Ranking Member, is recognized.
HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thank you to Senator Murray
for putting my opening statement in the record.
I will just add two quick points. First of all, the Office
of Inspector General is one that has to be completely
nonpartisan and independent. We have never, I am told,
confirmed someone for that position who was a political
appointee already serving in any department. You would be
unique in that regard, which gives me tremendous pause. And it
has to be seen in the context of the firing of most of our
inspectors general by the President of the United States,
illegally done in a way that seems really regrettable.
So, what we need now, more than any time in our history, is
a person in that position who is nonpolitical, completely
nonpartisan, and independent. The alternative is for the
credibility of the office to be diminished. And so, I think you
have the burden of proof at this point before this Committee to
show that you will in fact pursue the kind of waste, fraud, and
abuse--to use the classic phraseology that has come to be so
commonly used that it has lost a lot of its meaning and in
reality has been ignored by this administration.
So, that is as much as I think I need to say right now, my
full statement is in the record. And thank you for your
willingness to serve, to you, and Mr. Bergin. We look forward
to your testimony further.
Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. Ms. Mason,
along the lines, you indicated during your opening statement
about some of the things that Senator Blumenthal is talking
about. But I share, my number one question on my list is to ask
you how your experience as a senior advisor to Secretary
Collins will inform your work and priorities as the VA
Inspector General, and how would you maintain objectivity, and
independence, and avoid even the appearance of impropriety
given that you have been serving as a senior political leader
at the department when you're now undertaking a new task with
different responsibilities?
Ms. Mason. Well, thank you, Senator Moran, and I appreciate
the question. And, Senator Blumenthal, I acknowledge your
remarks.
So, let me start with facts and evidence. As a lawyer, and
as a previous investigator, facts are extremely important. So,
let's look at the facts of who Cheryl Mason is and my track
record. I noted that I had worked at the department for 28
years as part of my 30 years of service. Those 28 years were
spent at the Board of Veterans Appeals, an independent,
impartial organization that holds the vet, holds the department
accountable to follow the law and implement veterans' benefits
and services that under the decisions made. I spent 20 years of
my time, including my time as chairman, as a judge at the
board.
So, when the President asked me to return as senior
advisor, the role is not as many assume, the senior advisor
role may be--at least not my role as senior advisor--my role
was to use that knowledge I had at VA, and that experience I
had as an impartial, independent fact-finder and advisor to the
Secretary on things I understood and knew about VA as a
subject-matter expert in veterans law and in leadership.
So, the senior advisor role was to convey, gather
information much like a fact-finder does, and convey that
information to the Secretary and to other senior leaders. So,
it's very--it correlates well to Inspector General. The
difference is Inspector General has teeth, and that is very
much what is needed.
In the department, I saw it from my 28 years in the
department as an attorney, and judge, and chairman. I had to
protect the independence of the board on a number occasions
against interference. And, you know, those are things that I
would do again, as Inspector General, if confirmed
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, under the Inspector General Act,
the IG serves under the VA Secretary, but has a dual and
independent reporting relationship with the United States
Congress. Explain how, if confirmed, would you balance those
dual responsibilities owed to separate branches of the
government whose interests may at times conflict?
Ms. Mason. Well, thank you for that question, Chairman
Moran. And, you know, as the daughter of a government teacher,
I cut my teeth on the Watergate hearings, I well understand the
differences and the responsibilities of all three branches of
government; the executive branch, and the judicial branch, and
the legislative branch.
And indeed, as you note, an Inspector General is unique as
much as I am in serving both reporting to the Secretary and
reporting to this Committee. And I acknowledge the oversight of
this Committee just as I did as chairman. It's extremely
important that you have that relationship with the IG so that
you can bring those issues and you can also report those same
issues to the Secretary to ensure there's awareness of issues
and concerns that--so the Secretary needs to know what's going
on in his world, and you need to know what's going on at VA.
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, why do you think the VA has yet
to implement so many recommendations made by the Inspector
General? And, if confirmed, how would you anticipate working
with the VA to close out as many of those recommendations as
possible and make certain that future recommendations by the IG
are acted on in a much more timely manner?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question, Chairman. If
confirmed, that is one of the areas that does concern me. There
are over 500 pending open, unimplemented recommendations from
the IG. Some going back as long as seven years. I believe there
needs to be an inventory and accountability on those follow-ups
with all of those recommendations.
Even the ones that the department has taken, it's the
responsibility of the IG to follow up and monitor to ensure
that those are properly being followed. And that's something
that I would be setting up as IG, working with the staff as I
assess how they work and how they do their work. Because I
think following up with those important recommendations to
ensure that we're providing the best services, care, and
benefits to veterans is extremely important.
Chairman Moran. Thank you for your answers to my questions,
Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thanks. Let me ask you, if confirmed,
will you launch an investigation into Secretary Collins's mass
termination of employees, which have been found illegal by the
courts?
Ms. Mason. Senator Blumenthal, thank you for that question.
If confirmed, the responsibility of the IG is to look at all
concerns and issues that it brings up itself, whereas the
Committee brings up or others. And so----
Senator Blumenthal. Well, I'm asking you about the
terminations in particular----
Ms. Mason. If there are----
Senator Blumenthal. Would you want investigation into those
terminations?
Ms. Mason. If there are terminations that impact the
benefits, and care, and service to veterans that are improper,
IG will look into them. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal. It's been found to be illegal. Won't
you investigate?
Ms. Mason. Well, I would investigate if--but some of those
issues are currently in litigation with the courts, and so it
wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on them at this time.
Senator Blumenthal. Will you investigate the Secretary's
proposed reorganization?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question, Senator Blumenthal.
I can't investigate anything until the action occurs. So, OIG
would definitely look at that with the team and assess whether
there needs to be an investigation into that.
Senator Blumenthal. Well, you can investigate actions that
are taken preliminarily to a final plan or action. Let me ask
you, have you had any role in either the firings of VA
employees to date?
Ms. Mason. No, I have not, Senator.
Senator Blumenthal. And what about the plans to fire as
many as 83,000 more?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question. I have not had a
role in any of those activities. Those activities were handled
by the HRA team and general counsel.
Senator Blumenthal. Have you participated in the
realignment of senior executive service staff across the board,
VBA, and Office of General Counsel?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question, Senator. The
situation there was the acting secretary decided to direct some
changes across the administrations and staff offices under the
President's Executive order to restore accountability to the
career SESs and follow the 1979 SES Act. And he felt that it
was important to reassign some of these people to ensure
collaboration.
Senator Blumenthal. I don't understand. Have you played a
role in that realignment?
Ms. Mason. My role was to convey the reassignments to the
staff offices that were in my portfolio.
Senator Blumenthal. So, you have participated in those
actions?
Ms. Mason. I did not participate. I conveyed the acting
secretary's direction to reassign those people.
Senator Blumenthal. Okay. We can argue about words here,
but I think you get my point, which is you're unwilling to
review mass firings which have been found to be illegal. You
are unwilling to be forthright in your responses to these
questions. You served the Secretary of the VA, correct?
Ms. Mason. I served as a senior advisor to the Secretary of
VA for a period of time, but again, as I explained, my role
was----
Senator Blumenthal. And to his team?
Ms. Mason. I'm sorry, to his team?
Senator Blumenthal. You served as an advisor to him, and
you've worked with his team, correct?
Ms. Mason. I served as advisor to the Secretary, and I
advised those within my portfolio as to the directions the
Secretary directed.
Senator Blumenthal. And you've considered yourself to be a
loyal aide, correct?
Ms. Mason. I consider myself to be an impartial,
independent aide to the department because that's my role.
Senator Blumenthal. You considered yourself to be a loyal
aide, correct?
Ms. Mason. I am loyal to the veterans. That's who I serve.
That's who I'm loyal to.
Senator Blumenthal. You work for him?
Ms. Mason. I work for the President and the Secretary, but
I also, if confirmed as IG, will work for this Committee.
Senator Blumenthal. Have you been involved in the request
of VA employees to sign non-disclosure agreements?
Ms. Mason. Senator, I have not.
Senator Blumenthal. You have had no involvement?
Ms. Mason. I have had no involvement in that activity.
Senator Blumenthal. What is your involvement in the
reorganization and the RIFs that Secretary Collins has planned?
Ms. Mason. Senator Blumenthal, I have had no involvement in
that activity.
Senator Blumenthal. What have you done?
Ms. Mason. Well, again, my information--my role as senior
advisor is to gather information. When you look at how----
Senator Blumenthal. Seems like you haven't been earning
your pay.
Ms. Mason. Well, I have because the department is quite
siloed, as you know, and VBA is very siloed and----
Senator Blumenthal. Well, what have you done?
Ms. Mason. So, I've been investigating and looking at VBA,
and providing advice to the VBA leadership as well as other
careerists at the board and at National Cemetery
Administration. So, I've been earning my pay 12-hour days
almost every day.
Senator Blumenthal. So, you have been earning your pay as a
loyal advisor, a member of the Collins' team, an employee at
his behest, a political appointee, not as a career civil
servant. You are a political appointee as Inspector General,
and that is why I will object to your nomination. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Moran. Senator Tuberville.
HON. TOMMY TUBERVILLE,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALABAMA
Senator Tuberville. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Mason,
thanks for being here. The Office of Inspector General recently
put out a report highlighting reports within the fiduciary
program such as failures with training protocol. Can you commit
to working with me and my staff to developing solutions to make
the program work better for our most vulnerable veterans?
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator Tuberville, and absolutely I
can commit to do that. I think that's extremely important.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you. The Inspector General has
put out several reports highlighting failures with the Suicide
Crisis Line. How would you work with Secretary Collins to
ensure these recommendations are implemented to support
veterans and reduce suicide?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question, Senator Tuberville.
As we discussed in your office, I'm very--suicide is very
personal to me. I've had two suicides in my family. Both were
veterans. And so, I take that very seriously. And I've looked
at the IG reports, and I've looked at the other things the
department is doing, and there are several activities going on
now.
Currently, as a senior advisor of VEO, I'm looking at some
of the suicide actions that are being taken to prevent--to do
prevention, and awareness, and our partnerships, and I would
continue to advise to do that. If confirmed as IG, I would
continue to look at those actions to include the grants on
mental health and suicide that the department has, make sure
there's appropriate oversight into that, as well as what the
crisis line is doing. Ensure that they are properly staffed,
and have the right support and resources they need to answer
those calls because those calls do save lives.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you. When confirmed, what will be
your first thing that you want to do as a new IG?
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I think,
the first thing I want to do is really get a good assessment of
the office. I want to make sure the accountability is extremely
important, and the integrity of that office is extremely
important.
And I have no reason to think that they don't operate that
way now, but IG has to operate that way as independent and
impartial. And so, I want to make sure that they, one, are
operating that way in everything they do, but they also have
the adequate resources. And then find out what their current
investigations are, see where they are in those investigations.
But right behind that, is follow-up on those open
unimplemented recommendations and figure out how we bring those
to close with the department and with this Committee.
Senator Tuberville. Thank you.
Ms. Mason. Thank you.
Senator Tuberville. I yield my time.
Chairman Moran. Senator Murray.
HON. PATTY MURRAY,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON
Senator Murray. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Ms.
Mason, you did say on your questionnaire that you continued to
be a senior advisor to Secretary Collins after you were
nominated to become the Inspector General, monitoring his
agency while you were senior advisor to Secretary Collins. What
discussions were you involved in related to abruptly canceling
contracts or ending DEI efforts or eliminating outreach to
LGBTQ+?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for the question, Senator Murray. And
to be clear, yes, at the time I answered the questionnaire, I
was senior advisor to the Secretary. That role ended very
quickly after I submitted that questionnaire. I'm now senior
advisor to the VEO and do not sit in the Secretary's suite.
Senator Murray. Well, what----
Ms. Mason. So, as for your question as to those roles, the
only roles I had with contracts were ensuring that the
organizations that were in my portfolio knew that they needed
to justify the contracts and ensure that they responded timely.
I did not review contracts. I was not involved in those.
As far as in the DEI situation, that was an Executive
order. And shortly after the senior advisors came in, they were
followed by more senior advisors, and that was not something
that was on my plate. That belonged to general counsel and the
senior advisor who was charged with EOs.
Senator Murray. What--oh, well, I mean, I'd ask Senator
Blumenthal's question again. What substantive work were you
doing if you weren't involved in any of that?
Ms. Mason. Well, again, my role as senior advisor was to
look into actions that were going on in the administrations----
Senator Murray. But a lot of the actions that were going on
in the administration that we know about were about ending DEI,
about firing employees, about canceling contracts. So, that was
most of the activity that was going on there, so.
Ms. Mason. That was not in my portfolio. There were
separate senior advisors assigned to that. My portfolio was
looking at the way those organizations operated and how they
served veterans, particularly VBA, because it's such a large
organization. There were challenges with the Digital GI Bill,
challenges with disability compensation backlogs and inventory
with both the board and VBA, challenges with loan guaranty.
There were a variety of challenges within VBA that I was
looking at.
Senator Murray. Well, let me ask you differently. What was
your engagement with DOGE and the White House outside of the
Presidential Personnel Office?
Ms. Mason. I have no engagement with DOGE and the White
House.
Senator Murray. None. Zero?
Ms. Mason. None. No contact. The only contact I had was a
swearing in I attended. A swearing in for a person who has
since, I guess, left the department in DOGE. That person I
attended the VA swearing in. That was it.
Senator Murray. Well, as you know, Congress has a
responsibility to conduct oversight over the Office of
Inspector General to make sure that they are properly
conducting their role. So, it's really crucial, as you well
know, that the OIG is transparent. If you are confirmed, will
you provide us with a list of every ongoing OIG investigation
within 30 days?
Ms. Mason. Yes, Senator. I will do so.
Senator Murray. Okay. The budget for VA proposed the
elimination of ``unnecessary outreach activities''. From a
congressional perspective, it is really critical to make sure
that any canceled outreach doesn't impact veterans' ability to
receive care that's necessary to provide.
If confirmed, will you hold the department responsible for
conducting all outreach that is in statute or policy, even if
the political leadership, meaning your former boss, Secretary
Collins, doesn't want to reach out to those groups.
Ms. Mason. So, Senator Murray, I will look into all those
situations, and I will see where there are statutorily
required, and they will be held accountable under my watch as
OIG, if confirmed.
Senator Murray. Okay. Well, let me just ask this. Congress
was very clear in 1978 when it passed the law governing
inspectors general. The law states, and I want to quote it,
``Each Inspector General shall be appointed without regard to
political affiliation and solely on the basis of integrity.''
Do you believe that an inspector general should be entirely
independent from the administration in which they serve?
Ms. Mason. Thank you for that question, Senator Murray. I
do.
Senator Murray. Well, you were a political appointee for
President Trump in his first term. And as we said on your
questionnaire, you said you continued to be an advisor to
Secretary Collins after you were nominated for this. Do you
believe that this demonstrates the kind of non-partisanship it
takes to successfully execute this job?
Ms. Mason. Well, Senator, I would refer to my years of
experience in the department. I served 12 secretaries, 6 now, 7
administrations. I am unique in that I was a careerist who
became a political appointee during the Trump administration,
but I served into the Biden administration, and President Biden
appointed me to a position to ensure that the department was
implementing the Executive orders from President Obama,
President Trump, and President Biden on hiring veterans and
military spouses.
So, yes, I do believe I have that as a lawyer, and as a
judge, and as chairman, which was an independent, impartial
position.
Senator Murray. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Senator Hassan.
HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE
Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And good
afternoon. Congratulations to you and your family on your
nomination. And just on a personal note, I'm really sorry for
the toll that suicide has taken on your family.
Ms. Mason. Thank you.
Senator Hassan. And I'm grateful that you have been open
about that. I think that openness helps a lot of people. I want
to start by asking you a straightforward question that I ask
all nominees. If directed by the President to take action that
would break the law, would you follow the law or follow the
President's directive?
Ms. Mason. Senator Hassan, I appreciate that question, and
I will follow the law as a lawyer.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. Earlier this year, President
Trump illegally fired the VA's Inspector General, along with
several other inspectors general. Do you support the firing of
inspectors general without the President first providing the
required statutory notice to Congress?
Ms. Mason. Well, thank you for that question. It would
really be inappropriate for me to comment on that as that issue
is currently being litigated in the courts.
Senator Hassan. I will just comment that as a lawyer, as
somebody who has prided herself in this testimony to us as on
understanding, and investigating facts, and applying the law, I
think you could venture to say that the President's firing of
the Inspector General at the VA and across government violated
the clear language of the statute. And I'm disappointed that
you're unwilling to say that.
Let me move on to another question, which really follows up
on issues that both Senator Moran and Blumenthal have raised.
You've served as a senior advisor to Secretary Collins since
January, and you've worked at the VA for decades. The Inspector
General is required to be, as you pointed out, nonpartisan and
independent from agency leadership.
However, your prior work advising Secretary Collins calls
into question your ability to be nonpartisan and independent.
If you become the IG, you would need to recuse yourself from
many investigations in order to preserve the independence of
the office. Will you recuse yourself from any investigations
relating to matters you worked on while previously employed by
the VA?
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator Hassan. And yes, as an
attorney, I would, as my duty and as a member of the bar, in
certain situations, I would absolutely have to recuse myself. I
did so as chairman, I did so as a veterans law judge in that
world, and I would do so, as appropriate, as IG.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. Will you commit to continuing
any open investigations that were initiated by the last
Inspector General?
Ms. Mason. Yes, Senator, I will.
Senator Hassan. Thank you. The VA is reportedly planning to
fire roughly 80,000 employees. And recent reporting suggests
that the VA is requiring all employees who are working on these
staffing cuts to sign non-disclosure agreements. However, one
key role of the Office of the Inspector General is to
independently receive reports of wrongdoing within the VA from
employees, and the Inspector General has this obligation,
regardless of whether the employee has signed an NDA.
Will you commit that your office will independently and
thoroughly investigate any reports of wrongdoing at the VA
regardless of any NDAs that employees have been forced to sign?
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator Hassan. And absolutely, yes,
I will.
Senator Hassan. Well, thank you. I'm glad to hear you're
committed to conducting thorough independent reviews of any
allegations of wrongdoing. And I yield the rest of my time.
Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Hassan. Senator King.
HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE
Senator King. I want to thank you for the time you took for
us to discuss your history. You were imminently qualified for
this position up to about January 2020. And I don't want to
just keep going over and over, but, well, I guess one thing we
learned yesterday that the Office of the Inspector General in
the VA is being cut by 100 people. Were you aware of that?
Ms. Mason. No, Senator, I was not.
Senator King. Well, check the budget. You're going to lose
100 people before you even walk through the door.
Ms. Mason. I will definitely look into that sir.
Senator King. To me, that doesn't indicate a great deal of
respect and confidence in the job of the Inspector General. And
the challenge that you have is having been a close advisor to
the Secretary and then turning around and being Inspector
General. That's what we've all been concerned about.
And I think that's--Senator Blumenthal at the beginning
said, basically, you have the burden of proof given this close
relationship to the Secretary as an advisor for the past four
months, through a pretty tumultuous time to convince us that
you can turn around and have an objective, independent view of
actions taken by the Secretary or by senior advisors.
Give me a reason to vote for you here. I like you. I think
you were very well qualified, but it's very unusual. The
research I've done, it's very unusual for IGs to be appointed
from within the agency that they're going to be an IG. The
conflict of interest just sort of jumps out at you. And given
your longtime association with the VA, you know the people, and
your close association with the Secretary, convince me that you
can be objective, and forthright, and tough, which is the job
of the Inspector General.
Ms. Mason. Well, Senator, I appreciate the opportunity and
thank you for the question. Again, as we spoke yesterday, and
as you know, I think it's very important to look at my
background and my history. Yes, I came in the department as a
senior advisor in January 2025. We are not disputing that. But
again, my role as senior advisor, I think there's been some
assumptions made. I was brought back at the request of the
President. He asked me to return because of my 28 years in the
department as an impartial, independent----
Senator King. And if you were before this Committee as a
deputy secretary or another role, I don't think we'd be asking
these questions. You're coming into a very unusual job in our
government and a very important job, and that's the difference.
Do you see that?
Ms. Mason. I understand----
Senator King. You're not coming in as a policymaker.
Ms. Mason. I understand that. And Senator, very little
about my background and my experience is typical. I'm known for
my unusualness. So, let me talk about that. I was brought back
because of that independence and that background. And when I
was asked to advise the Secretary on various things from that
independent, impartial review, the Secretary was not looking
for yes-people. The Secretary is looking for impartiality,
independence of someone that can challenge conventional wisdom,
do things differently. That's what I bring to it.
So, from my time as chairman of the board, previously as a
judge, I look at things independently and impartially, even
stepping out of the role as a careerist into a political role
during the Trump administration the first time, and walking
into the role as chairman. That provided--that also met with--
was fraught with concern, because again, I had to act
independently. And I held people in the department at bay when
they tried to infringe on actions of the board, and I will do
the same as Inspector General.
I'm known as a tough, honest broker. I put veterans first.
I am about the veterans and the families of this country.
That's who I serve, and that's who I've served for since I was
20-some-years old.
Senator King. Thank you. I appreciate that, and I
appreciate your forthrightness. I'd like to suggest, if you're
confirmed, the first investigation should be in these non-
disclosure agreements. Number one, they lack the legally
required language that's supposed to be in all government non-
disclosure agreements that it does not apply to whistleblowers
to the Inspector General. The one that has been circulated that
we've seen in the department does not have that language. It
requires that they report to Congress, but that's about it. In
other words, it's an illegal non-disclosure agreement.
The second question I hope you'll examine is why do you
need a non-disclosure agreement for talking about a
restructuring exercise? Non-disclosure agreements, in my
experience, usually involve sensitive procurement information
and national security. That's neither the case for how to
reorganize the Veterans Administration. I hope that that's
something that you might look at.
I think the non-disclosure agreement that's been signed is
illegal and unnecessary. And it certainly doesn't fill us with
confidence that this is going to be carried out in an open,
transparent, and thoughtful way with the engagement of this
Committee and interested parties across the country. So, that
is something I hope you'll take under advisement, as we say in
the legal field.
But I'm seriously concerned about it. There shouldn't be a
non-disclosure agreement on something like how we're going to
reorganize the department. And by the way, the department has
not been forthcoming at all to this Committee about their plans
and how this process of firing 80,000 people is going to be
carried out.
Ms. Mason. Thank you. I will take that under advisement.
And I do believe that the Whistleblower Act and Accountability
Act that was sponsored by Senator Blumenthal should be followed
under the law.
Senator King. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Mrs. Mason, Senator King used the phrase or
the two words, ``close relationship with the Secretary.'' What
is the relationship with the Secretary?
Ms. Mason. I see the Secretary periodically. I would not
call our relationship a close relationship. In fact, since the
beginning of May I think the day or so after my nomination, I
moved out of the Secretary's suite. I rarely see the Secretary.
I wouldn't call any relationship I have with him or any other
members of the political team a close relationship or a
friendly relationship.
Chairman Moran. And what does your word ``periodic'' mean?
Ms. Mason. It means I might run into him if we happen to be
in the building at the same time at breakfast, and he says hi,
and I say hi.
Senator King. Mr. Chairman, I wasn't going to bring this
up, but since you did, yesterday when you left my office and
you were walking with my staff member, you noted a Pepsi
machine and a Coke machine. You said, ``I like Pepsi, but the
Secretary's a Coke guy.''
Ms. Mason. He is.
Senator King. That sounds like a relationship to me.
Ms. Mason. No. It was a conversation that was very early. I
went into a meeting with diet Pepsi, and he had Coke, and he
said, ``You know Ms. Mason, I prefer Coke.'' And I said, ``I
prefer Pepsi. [Inaudible.] We're going to disagree to disagree.
Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Senator Hirono.
HON. MAZIE K. HIRONO,
U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms.
Mason. I start with two basic questions that I ask of all
nominees before any of the committees on which I sit that goes
to the fitness to serve. So, I will ask you the following two
questions. Since you became a legal adult, have you ever made
unwanted requests for sexual favors, or committed any verbal or
physical harassment, or assault of a sexual nature?
Ms. Mason. Senator Hirono, it's nice to see you again. I
appreciate the question. And no, I have not, but I have
certainly been the subject of them.
[Inaudible.]
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
Ms. Mason. No, I have not, Senator. Thank you.
Senator Hirono. It's very clear that our IGs have to be
very independent, and you noted that it is important that IGs
be impartial and independent. You said that in the beginning
part of your testimony. And there are serious concerns, and I
would say, legitimate concerns, about whether you will be able
to be independent and impartial because you are--after that you
were a senior advisor to Secretary Collins.
Now, you testified today that you had nothing to do with
the very controversial firings and the potential firing of
another 80,000-plus employees at the VA. But here you are, you
sit as a senior advisor and as an attorney, did you ever raise
the concern with the Secretary that maybe what he was doing was
illegal?
Ms. Mason. Well, Senator, I appreciate that question, and
as a senior advisor, what I can tell you about my client is
there's privilege. And so, anything I advise the Secretary----
Senator Hirono. Well, excuse me----
Ms. Mason [continuing]. Stays between me and the Secretary.
Senator Hirono [continuing]. You testified--you know, you
opened the door. You testified that you had nothing to do with
the firings and the potential firing of 83,000 more people. And
I'm just asking that as senior advisor, did you consider it
your responsibility to raise the potential that what he was
doing was illegal?
Ms. Mason. Senator----
Senator Hirono [continuing]. Just answer yes or no. I'm not
asking for any other kind of content.
Ms. Mason. Senator, I didn't----
Senator Hirono [continuing]. In your discussions.
Ms. Mason [continuing]. Know about them until after the
fact. So, no, I did not.
Senator Hirono. See, that is why you're being asked all
these questions because as senior advisor, one would think that
maybe something as big as the kind of controversial firings
that Secretary Collins engaged in would come to your attention
and you would say something about it. And so, I think that is
one of the reasons that The Washington Post, Wednesday, May
28th, they included you in an article, in a list of Trump
administration nominees who have, to quote The Washington Post,
``clearly partisan backgrounds.'' That is not what we need or
want in an IG.
It's bad enough that President Trump fired a whole group of
IGs illegally, but his modus operandi says why did he do that?
Because he doesn't want IGs that are independent. And so, you
step into a role where these kinds of questions are going to
come up. It is very clear that this President likes people that
he can count on, that he thinks will be loyal to him, that he
thinks will do his bidding. That is his modus operandi.
And here you come telling us that you're going to be
impartial and independent, and were it not for the fact that
you serve as senior advisor. And even when you are nominated to
this position, you did not see fit to resign give a little
space between your role as senior advisor to an to an agency
that you're going to--you're supposed to be investigating
independently. That would help, but you didn't do that. And
that is why, you know, I think that these questions that we
have about your independence in view of why President Trump
fires everybody and gets rid of everybody who can even stand up
to him, we have these concerns. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Senator, thank you. Senator Duckworth.
HON. TAMMY DUCKWORTH,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Ms.
Mason. I think we served in the building at the same time, at
one point.
Ms. Mason. Yes, we did, ma'am.
Senator Duckworth. So, I know exactly what the inner
sanctum of the Secretary's office looks like. And if you're
behind those doors, you're in the inner sanctum. You're not
just floating out there. So, you probably saw him a lot more
than you are trying to lead us to believe.
I just want to follow up on your answer to Senator Hirono.
Are you invoking attorney-client privilege and not responding
to her question?
Ms. Mason. No, I simply--thank you for the question,
Senator Duckworth, and it is a pleasure to see you again. No,
I'm not. I'm simply saying that there are situations that I may
have advised the Secretary and that wouldn't be appropriate for
me to talk about. This question she asked me was a question
that I could answer, that I was not engaged and involved with
and it was not my place to offer my opinion in that situation.
Senator Duckworth. Did you advise the Secretary on setting
the 80,000 goal for firing VA employees?
Ms. Mason. No, Senator Duckworth. Thank you. I was not
involved in that decision.
Senator Duckworth. Congress established offices of
Inspector General in 1978 to, ``create independent objective
units within agencies.'' So, I'm going to follow continuing on
the questioning line that my colleagues have already started.
But critics have questioned whether a Federal agency IG can
truly be ``independent'' if these officials can be fired by a
President who leads the administration and IG is tasked to
oversee.
Now, to be fair, Congress has recognized the weakness of
allowing a President to silence an IG who might uncover
problems that an administration would prefer to sweep under the
rug. In fact, 30 years after the passage of the original IG
Act, Congress amended the law to enhance transparency and
oversight over potential IG firings.
Ms. Mason, can you please remind our Committee of what
Congress did in passing Section 3 of the IG Reform Act of 2008?
Ms. Mason. Let me see if I remember that one.
Senator Duckworth. Would you like a copy of it? I can give
you a copy.
Ms. Mason. That would be wonderful, ma'am.
Senator Duckworth. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to
provide the witness with a copy of the Act.
Chairman Moran. Without objection.
[The information referred to appears on page 147 of the
Appendix.]
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator Duckworth. And I do remember
reading this now. Yes, I think it's really important to note
that 2008 was where the Congress put in some protections about
the 30-day notice and some other areas that asked the President
to do so before removing an IG.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Ms. Mason. So, I raised the
question issue of IG independence because the unfortunate
reality is this; your nomination is only possible because
President Trump fired without a cause or explanation, let alone
the 30-day advance notice as required by law, the Honorable
Michael Missal who had effectively served as VA IG since 2016.
Ms. Mason, did President Trump violate Federal law when he
indiscriminately fired IG Missal and failed to provide Congress
with a written notice at least 30 days in advance of the
removal of his and intent to fire the independent and
nonpartisan VA Inspector General?
Ms. Mason. Well, Senator Duckworth, I appreciate that
question. And again, that issue is currently before the courts,
and I would have to defer to the courts and the judge to make
that decision. And after they make that decision, I will be
happy to answer the question.
Senator Duckworth. Then I will come back to you.
Ms. Moran. Okay.
Senator Duckworth. It's a simple question. As we discussed,
the law is clear. It requires written notification to Congress,
and it mandates that such notice be delivered at least 30 days
in advance. Look, a key reason that Congress established the IG
Law was to help ensure any given Presidential administration
complies with the law, and I am deeply troubled that you are
unwilling to simply identify President Trump's textbook
violation of the law. And your nomination was literally made
possible because President Trump committed that textbook
violation of the law when he fired IG Missal so that he could
appoint his own hand-picked appointee, you.
IGs must be willing to speak truth to power. So, let's try
a far simpler yes or no question. Ms. Mason, did President Joe
Biden win the 2020 Presidential election?
Ms. Mason. The 2020 Presidential election? I believe he
did, yes.
Senator Duckworth. Okay. Thank you. And if given an illegal
and unconstitutional order by either the Secretary of Veterans
Affairs or President Trump what would your actions be?
Ms. Mason. I will always follow the law, Senator Duckworth,
just as I did as chairman with the same President in office, as
well as with President Biden in office.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Senator Duckworth, thank you. I don't
anticipate--I don't intend to have a second round of
questioning, but I want to give the leeway to the Ranking
Member who has a question to follow-up, and then I'll ask you,
Ms. Mason, if you have anything you want to conclude your--
anything you would like to try to correct, or I'm not
suggesting you need to correct anything, anything you'd wish to
have said before we ask Mr. Bergin to the table.
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to
put into the record two articles; one from Government Executive
entitled, ``VA forces staff and work workforce reduction
discussions to sign non-disclosure agreements.'' Another from
The New York Times, ``Fired Inspectors General Raise Alarms as
Trump Administration Moves to Finalize Purge,'' and then a
letter that I did to the Council of the Inspectors General on
Integrity and Efficiency.
Chairman Moran. Without objection.
[The information referred to begins on page 148 of the
Appendix.]
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Let me ask you. Have you
been involved in the termination or firing of any employee of
the Veterans Administration?
Ms. Mason. Since taking office in 2025, I have not. Prior
to that as Chairman, yes.
Senator Blumenthal. In other words, since taking your
present position, you have not been involved in any termination
or firing of any single or any employee whatsoever?
Ms. Mason. No, Senator Blumenthal, I have not.
Senator Blumenthal. How about in the cancellation of any
contract?
Ms. Mason. I have not been involved in any cancellations of
any contract, Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Prior to this role, you served on the
President's transition team?
Ms. Mason. I did, yes.
Senator Blumenthal. And what was the subject matter?
Ms. Mason. The subject matter was the Department of
Veterans Affairs.
Senator Blumenthal. Department of Veterans Affairs?
Ms. Mason. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal. So, your involvement in the Department
of Veterans Affairs predated your present position?
Ms. Mason. My involvement with the Department of Veterans
Affairs goes all the way back to 1990, Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Well, I mean as part of the Trump
administration.
Ms. Mason. Well, as part of----
Senator Blumenthal. When did you begin your service on the
transition team?
Ms. Mason. I believe it was the end of November 2024. I
would have to check that.
Senator Blumenthal. November 2024. So, for whatever number
of months it is, you've been involved in reviewing, and
advising, and proposing policies. You've been involved in the
workings of the Veterans Affairs Administration.
Ms. Mason. Senator Blumenthal, thank you for the question.
Let me clarify. As a member of the transition team, my role was
to speak with the careerists, who were currently in office,
including Secretary McDonough who were leaving office and find
out what they were doing. So, I was part of what they would
call the landing team. So, my role was simply to look at that--
and ask questions about how they were operating at the time, to
get that information so we would be ready to start out Day 1.
Senator Blumenthal. Could you give me three decisions or
actions by the Department of Veterans Affairs since the
inaugural that you've been involved in doing?
Ms. Mason. Well, Senator Blumenthal, as a senior advisor,
I'm not involved in any decisions. That's not my role.
Senator Blumenthal. No. I'm asking you whether you've been
involved in them as an advisor. Three decisions or actions
where you've served as an advisor?
Ms. Mason. I cannot. My role was to gather information and
convey that information back and forth.
Senator Blumenthal. I can't believe that you are telling us
that you haven't been involved in a single action or decision
as an advisor.
Ms. Mason. I don't have the authority to, sir. My only role
is to recommend, gather information, convey information, and
recommend to different parties.
Senator Blumenthal. I consider your answers just--well,
thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Mason. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal.
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, anything you'd like to add to
the record before we call up Mr. Bergin?
Ms. Mason. Yes, Chairman Moran, a couple of things. So,
Senator Hirono brought up the concern about me not stepping out
of my role. I did step out of my role as senior advisor to the
Secretary shortly after it was announced, and I also moved out
of the suite, the Secretary's suite as Senator Duckworth noted.
And I thought it was very important that I do so.
Again, you can't just look at me as my role since January
2025. And yes, again, I understand Senator Blumenthal's concern
about the perception and assumption of senior advisor. But my
role as senior advisor, my role, just me, Cheryl Mason, was to
come in and bring the knowledge that I have, my many years of
service as an independent, impartial player at the Board of
Veterans Appeals, 28 years in that role, and making decisions
for veterans, serving veterans, and to look at what the
department was doing, particularly within VBA, the Board of
Veterans Appeals, primarily, and to ensure that we were doing
our best to serve veterans on education, all lines of business
in BVA.
I understand that it might be incredulous that I wasn't
involved in decisions, but that wasn't my role. My role was to
advise and to recommend. Whether the Secretary or other leaders
followed my advice is up to them, much like as I did as a
consultant, sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.
So, I appreciate it. Thank you, and I am happy to meet with
anybody after the hearing, and I look forward to your post-
hearing questions. Thank you.
Chairman Moran. Ms. Mason, thank you very much. And thanks,
we welcome your family here with you today as well.
Ms. Mason. Thank you.
Chairman Moran. Mr. Bergin, would you please join us at the
table? Maybe before you sit down, Mr. Bergin, I'll have you
stand up.
Mr. Bergin, before being recognized for your opening
statement, please stand and raise your right hand and repeat
after me, if you will. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to give before the United States Senate
Committee on Veterans' Affairs will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Bergin. I do.
Chairman Moran. Thank you. Mr. Bergin, you are now
recognized for your statement. Welcome to the Committee, and if
you have family and others you want to introduce, please do so.
Mr. Bergin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
PANEL II
----------
STATEMENT OF DON BERGIN, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR
CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
VETERANS AFFAIRS
Mr. Bergin. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal,
distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today. I'm deeply honored by
the confidence President Trump and Secretary Collins have
placed in me to be considered for the position of Assistant
Secretary for Congressional and Legislative Affairs at the
Department of Veteran Affairs.
Although he had to step away to meet with the President, I
would like to thank Senator Cornyn for his kind introduction
for inclusion in the record. It was an honor to serve alongside
a living model of leadership and public service. Senator Cornyn
and Sandy are truly the best of Texas.
Finally, I want to express my deepest gratitude to my wife,
Grace, whose unwavering support has made it possible for me to
serve in this role. I also want to thank my mother, Nancy, who
served a quarter century as a military spouse, raising three
children with strength and resilience, instilling in me the
values that guide my public service today.
The veteran community is my community. I view veterans the
same way many of you view constituents in your respective
states. I was born into the Army, just up the street from here
at Walter Reed Hospital, the son of a West Point graduate. I
was raised among veterans from the Vietnam War. From an early
age, I witnessed firsthand the stigmas and challenges faced in
the community and in seeking care from the VA, struggling with
limited access to mental health support, archaic prosthetic
services, and a system that often failed to meet their needs.
Their resilience shaped my understanding of duty, sacrifice,
and the lasting impacts of war.
My family legacy of service runs deep. Both of my
grandfathers served in World War II, one in the Army, and the
other is a B-17 navigator, flying the infamous bombing mission,
missions over Germany. My father spent nearly 25 years in the
Army retiring as a colonel. He's buried at West Point. My
sister is a VA physician. My wife, Grace, is a Federal
employee.
As a military brat, I experienced the sacrifices service
members and their families make moving every few years, making
and losing friends, and constantly adapting. Profoundly
impacted by the September 11th attacks, I immediately walked
into the Marine Corps recruiting office. I was honored to join
the first class following 9/11 a diverse group of Americans
from Wall Street to Main Street, united by shared commitment to
our country.
As an infantry commander, I deployed with the 1st Marine
Division during the invasion of Iraq, where my unit helped tear
down the statue of Saddam Hussein. I later served two
consecutive combat deployments in Fallujah, and I was
privileged to stand with my fellow Marines whose courage and
sacrifice will always stay with me.
Again, the veteran community is my community. I began my
service in Congress nearly 20 years ago in the Marine Corps
Office of Legislative Affairs, gaining firsthand experience in
how critical congressional engagement is to advance the
interest of our service members and veterans. I went on to
serve in personal offices, on congressional committees, and
ultimately in Senate leadership as a National Security Council
to the Senate Majority Whip, Senator Cornyn.
Throughout these roles, I witnessed the undeniable truth
that when Congress and VA work together under a common purpose,
we can deliver real lasting results for the veteran community
and their families. Just reference the Post-9/11 GI Bill, the
MISSION Act, the PACT Act, and Elizabeth Dole Act to name a
few. That collaboration must be honest, bipartisan, and always
focused on the needs of those who have served.
This experience has prepared me to immediately strengthen
that partnership and ensure the voices of veterans remain at
the center of every policy and legislative decision. That
perspective is deeply personal for me. As a patient of the VA,
I've witnessed the agency's transformation firsthand from the
struggles of the Vietnam era to the advancements made for the
OIF and OEF generations. That progress in mental health care
and prosthetic technology has been remarkable, but there's
still more work to do.
In recognition of veterans' extraordinary service, Congress
has committed vast resources to honor the Nation's promise to
them. We have a shared duty to ensure those resources are used
efficiently, effectively, and directly to improve veterans care
and benefits. When the Secretary asked me to take on this role,
I did not hesitate. It offers a rare opportunity to unite my
experiences from the kitchen table to the battlefield, and to
Congress, to strengthen this critical partnership and ensure
the voices of veterans are at the heart of every legislative
conversation.
If confirmed, I'll be a tireless advocate for veterans
committed to working hand in hand with Congress in a spirit of
cooperation and shared purpose. Together, we can fulfill
President Lincoln's promise to care for those who have borne
the battle. I'll measure every action by a simple standard; am
I delivering meaningful results and real accountability for
members of my community who sacrifice so much for this country?
Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bergin appears on page 115
of the Appendix.]
Chairman Moran. Mr. Bergin, thank you for your statement.
Thank you for your service to our Nation, and we welcome your
family members who have joined you here today. I thank them for
their support of your service to the country.
Mr. Bergin, for nearly 30 years, I've been a member of
either the House or the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs.
I cannot recall a time in which I thought that the legislative
affairs of the Department of Veterans Affairs was as helpful to
me as a House member or as a Senator, but more importantly to
my constituents. I can't recall the time in which I thought,
``Wow, this is really a good job being done.''
We had a bit of this conversation in my office, and every--
as I became a leader of the Veterans' committees, I had more
opportunity to have conversations and hearings with those who
were assigned the task of improving service to Members of
Congress, service to the committees, but most importantly, our
efforts to make sure that veterans who are need our help are
getting our help.
So, if confirmed, what actions would you take early on?
What's the first steps you would take in your tenure to improve
the quality and timeliness of VA's communication with Congress,
instill greater accountability within the Office of
Congressional and Legislative Affairs, and set the stage for
better working relationship between the VA and this Committee?
How would you measure that success?
Mr. Bergin. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman.
First of all, I'd like to start with one of the central tenets
I learned in the Marine Corps was the qualities of leadership
aren't taking on roles and missions because they're easy, you
take them on because they're worthwhile. That's why I'm here.
As was pointed out, and I'm sure will not come up in future
questions, I have been working as a senior advisor to the
Secretary since April. And in that role, and the reason why the
Secretary brought me on is because he realized a lot of the
issues that had been raised here, a lot of the challenges, a
lot of the feedback, and he even experienced that as a
Congressman over in the House.
And I will say to that end as well, as a staffer who's
worked--I'm looking at the back row of there, but I've spent
some time over there, and Senator Blumenthal, I'd like to
compliment you for hiring a fellow Tar Heel. I've spent time
back there, and I know the frustrations of the challenges of
actually getting responses back from nearly every agency in
government.
I can't commit to you that it will be perfect, but I can
sincerely commit to you that I'll use the experience that I
have both in leadership and in working in Congress to get that
done. And to that effect, in my current role, I've spent time
making recommendations on the way the office should be
organized as far as actual personnel, personnel roles, and
then, also on processes.
I had the good fortune of working in the Marine Corps
Office of Legislative Affairs, and I sincerely appreciate the
leadership of the Marines that I served with over there. I
think they built a good model, and I'm trying to take away from
that model the experiences that I have that I thought were
valuable. And then add on top of that, the other experiences
that I've had while working in Congress.
So, to that end, first of all, what was most striking to me
when I started was the dearth of what we call Congressional
Relations Officers here, both in the Senate and in the House.
We're pretty short-staffed on that end, and I find it very
challenging to be able to accomplish this role without having
those assets out there; the people that are knowledgeable, both
of your offices and your issues, being able to provide that
candid feedback to the office of OCLA and to the Secretary.
So, I've made recommendations that we staff up in those
positions. And I've also made recommendations, internal, to
processes as far as trying to respond to the Committee in a
timely and useful manner, like providing you relevant
information that's actually substantive to your request.
Because my experience has been when you don't answer questions,
you tend to get more questions, you also tend to get more
hearings. And I don't know that that's what anyone wants here
on the Committee, and I certainly respect your time. So, if
confirmed, sir, I will continue to work on that and implement
some of the recommendations that I've already made.
Chairman Moran. Mr. Bergin, thank you for your answer. And
I appreciate that it's a difficult task getting timely answers
from any department or any agency almost without exception. And
I don't know what the exception is, but I want to give somebody
the benefit of the doubt in case there is one.
But I do want to highlight that this is not an ego kind of
thing because when the Department of Veterans Affairs fails to
respond to us, this Committee, the Members of this Committee,
the Members of the Senate, it further jeopardizes the life and
well-being of veterans across the country.
And I've said this so many times, mostly what I know about
what is veterans are encountering is because they'll stop me on
the street, they'll send me an email, they'll tell me the
story, and that begins the process by which we try to solve
problems, sometimes individually. And sometimes those
individual problems then lend itself to us figuring out how do
we solve problems for more than just a veteran, but veterans
across the country.
And so, your job, if confirmed, is hugely important. I
mean, you indicate, and I believe you, that you're doing this
for the--by motivation of wanting to care for your fellow
veterans. This is a task that needs the attention, not because
you want to make Members of this Committee happy, but because
if you provide the information, perhaps we, along with many
others, can serve those veterans and make their life longer,
healthier, and the benefits they need to care for themselves,
their education, their family.
It's different than just the usual complaint that I suppose
Members of Congress might have about an agency that doesn't
respond and doesn't function well. The functioning of what you
do can be a life-or-death circumstance for those we all serve
and all care about. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I will say
I agree with everything that you have articulated so well just
now, and I think it summarizes a lot of the role of our
Committee, and all of us as Members of the United States
Senate.
Let me just come right to the point. First of all, thank
you for your service. Thank you to your family, for their
service, and thank you for your willingness to serve in this
position. You've been senior advisor at the VA since April,
correct?
Mr. Bergin. Correct.
Senator Blumenthal. And during that time, the VA has
engaged in systematic denial of facts, stonewalling of this
Committee in an unprecedented way. And it's been, frankly,
bipartisan, both sides, inquiries in effect, either ignored or
blown off. The few answers we get are mostly boilerplate, non-
responsive repetitions of talking points that failed to address
basic questions.
It's been true of Secretary Collins testimony, but also the
responses that we've received, for example, about the VA's DOGE
team, what they do, who they are, what they're working on.
We've asked by email, and we've asked in hearings, Senator King
has sent a letter, and then more than a dozen colleagues join
me in sending subsequent letter requesting information
briefing.
We've asked about contracts, and the response has been
either to give us inaccurate information, which was
acknowledged to be inaccurate, or telling us that you, ``will
not be providing a briefing on this issue.'' How do you explain
this abject failure on the part of the VA?
Mr. Bergin. Senator, first, I want to make sure I clarify
that I personally did not say that I would not provide a
briefing and I want to make sure that that's not the case. And
I cannot speak to all the decisions that have been made, sir,
but what I can tell you is I also recognize the challenges that
the Secretary has taken on in his role. And I think as everyone
in this room can attest, the Department of Veterans Affairs is
not a flawless organization, but it is a very large
organization----
Senator Blumenthal. Well, let me just ask the question
again, and I apologize if I implied that you told us that you
would not be providing the briefing, the department told us you
have been an advisor in the office that was supposed to be
responding. Have you been involved in any of the answers to any
individuals on this Committee or the Committee itself?
Mr. Bergin. No, sir.
Senator Blumenthal. You've had no involvement?
Mr. Bergin. I have not.
Senator Blumenthal. What have you been doing?
Mr. Bergin. I've been working on organizing the Office of
Congressional Legislative Affairs in a way that if I'm
confirmed, sir, it will be ready to be more responsive. And I
would say, I think if you go back and you look at least at the
timeliness of responses that we have been working to some
degree to be able to provide those, I've not been involved in
the substance or----
Senator Blumenthal. Part of the answer that you've just
given me, and I apologize for interrupting, because my time is
going to expire shortly, you just said you've been working in
restructuring the office so it would be ``more responsive.''
Mr. Bergin. Correct, sir.
Senator Blumenthal. I'm going to view that in the most
positive light and say, my conclusion is that you would join me
in feeling that the office has been unresponsive so far. But
you don't have to agree with me or not. The record shows it has
been abjectly unresponsive. And to the extent you've been
involved as an advisor, and you've known of our
dissatisfaction, and you're going to be taking over, I am
troubled that you haven't said to the Secretary, ``Secretary
Collins, we got to do something here because we're not
answering these valid requests for information.'' Did you ever
go to him and say that?
Mr. Bergin. Senator, I'm very sensitive to the concerns
that you've expressed and appreciate them very much. I have had
conversations with the Secretary about our ability to respond
promptly and substantively. That is his intent, is to be able
to get there. The challenges are that the size of the
organization takes some time to be able to get there.
And I think everyone would agree that the policy positions
of the previous administration and the current administration
are fairly vast. So, turning around on a dime for those
policies is a challenge that we are working on addressing. So,
getting the voice and the vernacular correct in the way we
respond is something that's a work in progress.
Senator Blumenthal. My time has expired. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Moran. Senator King.
Senator King. First, I should say that you're having been
an advisor before now I consider a qualification as opposed to
the last witness. The fact that you've been involved in the
inner workings, you know what the problems are. Your record is
really impressive, and I want to acknowledge that, going back
to your enlistment, and anyone that was at Fallujah deserves
our respect and thanks.
Senator King. I intend to----
Chairman Moran. Senator King, would you pull the microphone
closer----
Senator King. I'm sorry----
Chairman Moran. I can't hear and I want to hear more.
[Laughter.)
Senator King. That's a first. I hope that gets in the
record.
I'm going to support your nomination because you strike me
as a straightforward guy who's going to do his best. And I
think you have your work cut out for you. The department thus
far has not been forthcoming, has not been responsive, and
Senator Blumenthal sort of went down the list.
And I hope that the way you're going to approach this is,
``Hey, this is our board of directors up there. We better
listen to them, and we better give them the facts,'' and that
is that your approach; that you view your job as conveying to
us the factual information about the conduct of the department,
and the positions of the department, and the intentions of the
department. Is that a fair description of your job description?
Mr. Bergin. It's a fair description, and it's unfortunate
that the chairman just stepped out. But to the same point,
Senator, I am very conscious of the fact that I will not make
everyone in this room happy. But the necessary part of this
role in particular is that we have the discussions, we convey
the information, and where we disagree, we have that
disagreement and it's an open discussion.
Senator King. Well, I have no problem with being unhappy
with the content. What makes me unhappy is when I'm not--my
questions aren't answered and I don't get the information. We
can differ over the policies, but the important thing is that
we have the information.
A perfect example is this reorganization. I don't
understand why this has to be treated as a national security
matter with non-disclosure agreements and not informing the
Committee--a major reorganization that involves the firing of
80,000 people is of concern to this Committee. And I think we
ought to have an open dialogue with the department about how
it's being approached. What's the plan? Who's going to be
making the decisions, what's the timeline? To me, it undermines
our confidence when we don't get the information.
Another example is the contracts. We started looking for
those contracts when the Secretary announced 585 contracts
canceled, I think it was on March 4th. We've been asking, and
asking, and asking, and the fact that we haven't gotten a
straight answer to that question means we're suspicious. What
are we not being told? What's in those contracts that the
Secretary doesn't want us to know about?
And so, you can go a long way, and I hope you'll really be
strong and say, ``Look, this is in the interest of you, Mr.
Secretary, and the department, to rebuild the confidence of the
Committee.'' This is a generally bipartisan Committee, all
committed to veterans. And I think you're in an excellent
position. You have a great record to be a really valuable
interface between us and the department, but you have your work
cut out for you.
Mr. Bergin. Well, Senator, thank you. First of all, thank
you for your personal comments. I appreciate those. I can tell
you for your questions, in particular on contracts, Senator,
that the Secretary did come back to me, and he expressed
frustration about the fact that we haven't provided you that
information, and he wanted to be able to have that open
discussion.
Because at the heart of it, and I do believe this, Senator,
and I wouldn't be here if I didn't, the Secretary does want to
get resources directly to veterans and the effort that he is
leading, which is a humongous challenge, I think everyone here
would acknowledge, is a large undertaking with many challenges.
And part of those challenges, particularly when it comes to
personnel and when it comes to contracts are there's very
extensive deliberations involved in that, that make it very
challenging when you're in the middle of those deliberations,
to include court involvement as well, sir. So, the challenge
has been getting organized in a way where we can provide you
that information, it be deliberative, and it actually represent
the policies of both the Secretary and the administration.
Senator King. Well, there's a tension between preliminary,
and predecisional, and final, and you don't get any input. And
there's some space in between there where we should be engaged.
And it doesn't have to be the earliest part of the discussion,
but it may be before the final decisions are made and we're
presented with a fait accompli.
My problem is that there's a wise old man once said, ``What
you do speaks so loudly, I can't hear what you say.'' And the
Secretary comes before this Committee and repeats over and over
how he's all for veterans. But what's being done, both in terms
of the proposed firing of 80,000 people, and the lack of
transparency to us about that program, and about the contracts,
speaks louder than that language about, ``We're all in this for
the veterans.''
We all are in for the veterans, but I'm interested in what
you're going to do, not what you're going to say. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Bergin. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Moran. Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Mr.
Bergin. I will start with the fitness to serve initial
questions that I asked Ms. Mason. Since you became a legal
adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual favors
or committed any verbal, or physical harassment, or assault of
a sexual nature?
Mr. Bergin. No.
Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
into a settlement related to this kind of conduct?
Mr. Bergin. No.
Senator Hirono. So, Mr. Bergin, having served in several
congressional offices, being a veteran, if your office is
anything like mine, a lot of the constituent services requests
come from veterans. Did you find that to be the case in your
service for the congressional offices?
Mr. Bergin. Absolutely. I mean, it's my observation that
it's actually the primary outlet. And one of the reasons why
this relationship is so valuable is that you represent the
veterans in your state. So, you're a tremendous resource for us
to work together.
Senator Hirono. So, I would think that you would consider
our ability to respond to veterans to call our offices for
help, that that would be a priority for you to make sure that
the VA responds and provides the kind of information that the
veteran is looking for. And a lot of times, it's things like,
you know, with the ratings and all of that. And I think you
understand the need to get back to them with these kinds of
answers.
Mr. Bergin. Absolutely. And just anecdotally, when I was
first nominated for this position, I think I officially became
a congressional office because I received at least 20 calls
from veterans asking me about things that were going on in
their requests as well.
Senator Hirono. So, I hope that you can make a commitment
to us that it will be a high priority for you to respond to
congressional offices' inquiries on behalf of veterans.
Mr. Bergin. Absolutely.
Senator Hirono. And the reality is, though, that things are
pretty chaotic within the VA. You know, that the word chaos
comes to mind. You have firings, you have canceling of
contracts, et cetera, et cetera. And in order to respond to our
inquiries on behalf of veterans, you need people to respond to
them. And so, I would hope that you're going to do whatever
you're going to do to get the workers back, because when you
start talking about another 80,000 or so more people being
fired, that is not reassuring regarding a commitment to making
sure that constituent services for veterans will be a high
priority. It's a problem. Don't you think it's a challenge?
Mr. Bergin. It's a big challenge. I agree.
Senator Hirono. And you acknowledge that the VA is a huge
agency. And in fact, it is the largest healthcare system in the
entire country. You have to deal with homelessness, suicides,
all the things that your--a prior Secretary says, ``put at the
top of the list.'' But from where I sit--and in fact I have
been told by my staff as they try to help veterans with their
questions, that they don't even get an acknowledgement that the
VA has received their inquiry.
I hope that that is something that you will fix. Because if
we don't even know whether the VA has gotten our inquiry, it's
like we're just sitting there going, ``What the hell?'' So,
will you at least implement, ``Yes, we got your inquiry. We're
working on it.'' That would help.
Mr. Bergin. I think that's a fair standard operating
procedure. And to that point, and just real quickly, we have
two to three staff that do constituent services across all of
Congress. That's not enough, and we're working on filling those
positions so that we can be more responsive.
Senator Hirono. And already we are seeing delays. And not
only do we not get an acknowledgement that VA got our inquiry,
but there is a delay now in getting answers. You know, and
really with the veterans, I don't need to lecture you on the
importance of making sure that the veterans who served our
country, that they get responses. It's very frustrating. We
hear from so many of them who've said, ``I've been waiting
months,'' and you sound like the kind of person who will give a
rip about those kinds of instances and you would want to fix
it.
Mr. Bergin. I will.
Senator Hirono. Okay. Well, a positive kind of an attitude.
I like that, and frankly should you get confirmed. I look
forward to the kind of changes that will be happening so that
we can get responses, we can help our veterans, they can get
answers, they can get delayed payments, et cetera, et cetera,
because you've been there.
Mr. Bergin. If confirmed.
Senator King. Maybe he can get some of those 100 people cut
from the OIG's office.
Senator Blumenthal. Maybe when you add to your staff, you
can hire back some of the veterans who've been fired.
Mr. Bergin. We have several veterans on our staff. And
while we're here, sir, I'd like to recognize, although we've
been saying that we are understaffed, and there have been
challenges in the office, what I have found since I've been
there since April is, the team that is there is almost entirely
veteran, is extremely diverse and highly qualified, and have
been working their tails off many over and through the weekend
to get this done. And I know that that doesn't look
satisfactory on your end, but I want to make sure that I
recognize the hard work that people are doing in this
environment.
Senator Blumenthal. And I want to be clear----
Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I
want to be clear that nothing I have said now or at any time in
the past is to impugn in any way the work ethic of the VA
workforce. And I am pleased to hear that you think that your
office should be more responsive. The responsibility for the
evasive and inadequate responses, I put squarely on Secretary
Collins.
Mr. Bergin. Senator, to that point, Secretary Collins is
also frustrated, and he's depending on people like myself, if
confirmed, and the other leaders in the organization who,
rightfully, this Committee is putting pressure on to fill those
leadership roles and to get the job done as the Senator from
Hawaii pointed out to serve those veterans.
Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Moran. Mr. Bergin, and I have just a follow-up and
then we'll conclude the hearing. While I've highlighted the
importance of communications, and timeliness, and response, I
also want to ask for your help, if confirmed, in one other
arena, although there'll be dozens more than the two I will
mention today.
We also need to make sure that the Department of Veterans
Affairs follows the letter of the law, follows congressional
intent. And I hope that you and your position, if confirmed,
would be the voice for making certain that the intentions of
this Committee and the legislation that is passed by Congress
is something that the Department of Veterans Affairs
implements, interprets, and proceeds in the manner in which the
law says. And in the absence of a clear understanding that of
what those words mean that you convey to those who are
implementing legislation passed the intent of Congress, does
your role include that and are you willing to do so?
Mr. Bergin. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. And I have to say, I
do not think that I will be put in that position, but as we
started off this panel, I've raised my right hand for an oath
to the Constitution many times in my career, and I intend to
die holding true to that commitment. So, I will follow the law.
Chairman Moran. Thank you. And I guess the additional part
of that response is that you will encourage and that the
Department of Veterans Affairs also does so.
Mr. Bergin. Yes, sir.
Chairman Moran. Anyone? Okay. Mr. Bergin, there appears to
be no other questions, and I thank you for your testimony and
your time spent with us. Again, I thank you for your service,
your family's commitment to your service, your family's
service.
If any Member of this Committee would like to send
questions for the record to either one of the nominees, they
should do so as soon as possible and no later than the close of
business tomorrow. And we would appreciate--here's the standard
line in my closing of a hearing--and we appreciate the timely
response to any such questions the nominee may receive.
With that, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:36 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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