    [Senate Hearing 119-53]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 119-53

                    HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING NOMINATIONS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 APRIL 1, 2025

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                    __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    60-056 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
    John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,
    Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
    Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
    Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
    Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
    Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New
    Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
    Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
    Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                         Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                         Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                         David Shearman, Staff Director
                    Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director

                               C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                                 April 1, 2025

                                    SENATORS

                                                                       Page
    Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     1
    Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from
      Connecticut....................................................     2
    Hon. Bill Cassidy, U.S. Senator from Louisiana...................    15
    Hon. Patty Murray, U.S. Senator from Washington..................    17
    Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............    19
    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    21
    Hon. Dan Sullivan, U.S. Senator from Alaska......................    23
    Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    25
    Hon. Mazie K. Hirono, U.S. Senator from Hawaii...................    26
    Hon. Ruben Gallego, U.S. Senator from Arizona....................    29
    Hon. Jim Banks, U.S. Senator from Indiana........................    33
    Hon. Elissa Slotkin, U.S. Senator from Michigan..................    35
    Hon. John Boozman, U.S. Senator from Arkansas....................    36

                                  INTRODUCERS

    Hon. Dan Sullivan, U.S. Senator from Alaska......................     4

    Hon. Bill Cassidy, U.S. Senator from Louisiana...................     5

    Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............     6

                                    NOMINEES

    Captain Samuel Brown, U.S. Army (Ret.), Nominee To Be Under
      Secretary for Memorial Affairs, U.S. Department of Veterans
      Affairs........................................................     7

    James Baehr, Nominee To Be General Counsel, U.S. Department of
      Veterans Affairs...............................................     9

    Richard Topping, Nominee To Be Chief Financial Officer, U.S.
      Department of Veterans Affairs.................................    11

                                    APPENDIX
                              Nomination Material

    Captain Samuel Brown, Nominee

      Prepared statement.............................................    43

      Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    46
        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    49

      Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Question submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    51

      Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    52
        Hon. Kevin Cramer............................................    53
        Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................    54
        Hon. Mazie K. Hirono.........................................    55

      Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    56

                          Nomination Material (cont.)

    James Baehr, Nominee

      Prepared statement.............................................    73

      Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................    75
        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    78

      Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Questions submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    90

      Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................    91
        Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................    92
        Hon. Mazie K. Hirono.........................................    93
        Hon. Dan Sullivan............................................    94

      Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................    95

      Addendum Questionnaire for Presidential Nominee................   117

    Richard Topping, Nominee

      Prepared statement.............................................   123

      Response to Pre-Hearing Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Jerry Moran.............................................   125
        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................   128

      Response to Additional Pre-Hearing Questions submitted by:

        Hon. Richard Blumenthal......................................   132

      Response to Questions for the Record submitted by:

        Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan....................................   134

      Questionnaire for Presidential Nominees........................   135

                          HEARING TO CONSIDER PENDING
                                  NOMINATIONS

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, APRIL 1, 2025

                                           U.S. Senate,
                                Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:33 a.m., in
    Room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Jerry Moran,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

        Present: Senators Moran, Boozman, Cassidy, Tillis,
    Sullivan, Blackburn, Tuberville, Banks, Sheehy, Blumenthal,
    Murray, Hirono, Hassan, King, Gallego, and Slotkin.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
                   CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

        Chairman Moran. Thank you all very much for making me feel
    important by the use of the gavel. It did get quiet and it was
    kind of a good feeling. Mostly, when I saw my colleagues get
    quiet. I felt powerful. So thank you all [laughter].
        The hearing will come to order and I thank all of you for
    being here. This morning, we will consider three pending
    nominations. Samuel Brown, nominee to be the VA Under Secretary
    for Memorial Affairs; James Baehr, nominee to be the VA General
    Counsel; and Richard Topping, nominee to be the VA Chief
    Financial Officer.
        Each of these roles are critically important to fulfilling
    the VA's mission of improving the care, benefits, and services
    of millions of veterans, caregivers, survivors, and
    beneficiaries across the country. The Under Secretary of
    Memorial Affairs is responsible for making certain veterans and
    their loved ones have a dignified final resting place and are
    appropriately memorialized for future generations.
        The VA's General Counsel is responsible for making certain
    the department and its employees, faithfully follow the laws
    that Congress writes in providing legal counsel and expertise
    on a range of issues that impact services veterans and
    beneficiaries receive.
        And finally, the VA's Chief Financial Officer is
    responsible for making certain that the VA is a good steward of
    taxpayer dollars and well-funded for carrying out the
    department's sacred mission.
        Captain Brown, Lieutenant Colonel Baehr, Captain Topping
    have all served in the military themselves, and as they will
    explain in their testimony today, each of them have personal
    experience with the VA in their civilian lives. I look forward
    to hearing this morning their goals if confirmed, and working
    alongside Secretary Collins and Deputy Secretary Lawrence in
    their respective roles to raise the bar across the VA to better
    serve fellow veterans. I thank you all for being here and with
    that I yield to the Ranking Member.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
             RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to
    each of the nominees for your willingness to serve and to your
    families for their support. As we say about our veterans,
    families serve as much as our men and women in uniform and the
    same is true of all who serve in our Veterans Affairs
    Department.
        Right at the outset, let me just say that I will join in
    insisting that there be no unanimous consent to any of these
    nominations. My colleague, Senator Gallego of Arizona, has
    stated that he will ``block the nominations'', which means he
    will object to unanimous consent. I certainly intended to do
    the same, and I think the Senate is entitled to a full debate
    on each of these nominations.
        This Committee will delve into your background, but let me
    just say about this process, I voted for the Secretary, Doug
    Collins, after his assurances about being transparent, about
    preserving the workforce of the VA, about putting veterans
    first. I have been disappointed. I think that is a vast
    understatement, because he has failed to respond to our
    inquiries and questions. He has targeted 80,000 in addition to
    the 2,400 already fired among the VA workforce.
        The impacts of the roll back and the heartless,
    heartbreaking cuts in veteran services, are already evident to
    many of us who were home just this past weekend. Tomorrow at a
    shadow hearing, as we have called it, beginning at three
    o'clock, we are going to explore some of the real-life impact
    of the cuts, freezes, and firings that have occurred already.
    Cuts and funding, freezes in hiring, and firing of thousands of
    VA employees.
        The fact that the nominee for Secretary could in this way,
    in my view, so mislead us, indicates to me that we need an
    especially exacting and demanding process, and I am intent that
    we will explore as fully and completely as possible the
    backgrounds of every nominee, for every position.
        Each of you will have an extraordinarily important role in
    the VA. Mr. Brown, if confirmed as Under Secretary for Memorial
    Affairs, you will lead a department with one of VA's most
    sacred missions, honoring our veteran service members and their
    families with a dignified burial and lasting memorial. I hope
    that you will continue the excellent leadership of your
    predecessor, our last Under Secretary General Matt Quinn,
    particularly to ensure that the National Cemetery
    Administration is adequately staffed and able to accomplish its
    mission.
        We have heard about the Musk/Trump assault on the VA
    workforce that has already apparently discouraged and driven
    off a number of our senior NCA officials in the field, and as a
    result, there may be delays in multiple months in burial and
    interments. You need to be fully transparent with us, with
    families, and others in pushing back on Secretary Collins, Elon
    Musk and Donald Trump if they continue to fire or fail to hire,
    sufficient numbers to provide the kind of service that our
    veterans need and deserve.
        Mr. Baehr, if confirmed as VA's General Counsel, you will
    be the top lawyer in the department. You are going to be
    advising VA leadership on litigation policy and ethics. You are
    going to be working for the President who said he doesn't need
    to obey court orders. You have expressed to me that you believe
    that court orders need to be obeyed. The executive branch
    overreach cannot be permitted to stand if there is a
    disobedience of court orders. And I will be asking you very
    direct questions about your adherence to the rule of law.
        Mr. Topping, if confirmed as Chief Financial Officer, you
    are going to oversee a budget that is approaching 400 billion
    and it directly impacts the care and services provided for all
    of our Nation's veterans. As we have seen, Elon Musk is pushing
    indiscriminate cost cutting across all Federal agencies,
    regardless of the consequences. This effort is not only
    upending lives and harming veterans, but it is incredibly
    shortsighted and will cost taxpayers more in the long run.
        The failure to prevent illness, just as an example, cost a
    lot more than providing the kind of care veterans need to avoid
    the additional expense of treatment if they become sicker.
    Today, we need to know whether each of you will put veterans
    first.
        I have offered legislation called Putting Veterans First,
    that would require all of the fired veterans, in all of the
    agencies of the Federal Government to be hired back, and all of
    the fired employees in the VA to be hired back. And to prevent
    anything like the blanket across-the-board firings that have
    occurred by requiring individual, personalized assessment of
    the performance of any individual who is considered for
    termination and giving them appeal rights--due process,
    essentially.
        Also, this legislation would prevent the mining and
    collecting of data from veterans by anyone including the Musk
    operation, which has been going forward.
        Let me just conclude by saying, we are going to have this
    shadow hearing tomorrow, with veterans who are our eyes and
    ears by what is actually happening. We are doing this shadow
    hearing because Secretary Collins has so far refused to appear
    before this Committee. I know he has agreed at some point in
    the future to do so, perhaps in connection to the budget
    hearing. I am looking forward to that appearance, but we need
    answers right away to the questions we have been asking in
    letters that we have written, and we need them in public so
    veterans can see and have some transparency and visibility into
    what is actually happening.
        The anger among our veteran's community is mounting and to
    quote the commander of the VFW when he appeared in the hearing
    before us, ``we need to stop the bleeding''.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now recognize
    Senator Sullivan to introduce Captain Brown.

                   INTRODUCTION BY HON. DAN SULLIVAN,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

        Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking
    Member, Blumenthal. It is my honor this morning to introduce
    Captain Samuel Brown for the position of Under Secretary of the
    VA for Memorial Affairs.
        In this Committee, we often hear from American veterans who
    have served the United States honorably, that make countless
    sacrifices to protect our great Nation. We hear stories of
    great success that make us proud. We also hear stories of
    heartbreak and sacrifice and tragedies, patriotic Americans
    sacrificing their lives for our freedoms.
        The Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs has the important,
    I would say, critical responsibility of overseeing the
    Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery
    Administration.
        The National Cemetery Administration plays a central role
    in honoring the contributions of our service members, ensuring
    they receive a dignified burial, with recognition of their
    service, providing gravesites alongside their fellow veterans.
    Headstones and markers that tell the story of these American
    heroes, and the continued maintenance of these very important
    sites, is important for all Americans.
        The honor we pay to our veterans in the United States is a
    source of great pride and an important part of our national
    heritage. The memorial of a veteran is a symbol of our enduring
    gratitude for their service and a commitment to their
    sacrifices that it will not be forgotten.
        I am very honored today to be introducing a friend, a
    loving husband, and father of three and proud American Army
    veteran who understands in the most severe way the honor and
    service, and yes, sacrifice of serving in our Armed Forces. Mr.
    Sam Brown is a perfect example of the selfless service and
    sacrifice that we admire so much in those who have served in
    our military.
        Colleagues, we have all been to the funerals of fallen
    service members. These are somber and moving affairs that are
    seared in the collective memory we have as Americans, for life.
    Many of these places in which these moving and important
    ceremonies take place will be under Sam Brown's leadership, if
    he is confirmed.
        I can think of no one more capable and qualified to carry
    out the solemn responsibilities of supporting our veterans and
    their families, at the end of their lives, with compassion and
    dignity than Mr. Brown. Captain Brown will make an excellent
    Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, managing and caring for
    over 4 million Americans interned at our 156 national
    cemeteries across the country.
        Captain Brown is a decorated soldier who comes from a
    family with a strong ethic of military service, including his
    very accomplished and brilliant wife, also a United States Army
    veteran. Like so many veterans, Mr. Brown answered the call to
    service after our country was attacked by terrorists--after 9/
    11. After graduating from the United States Military Academy of
    West Point in 2006, Captain Brown was commissioned as an
    infantry officer in the United States Army in 2008, and was
    deployed to Afghanistan.
        On this deployment, Captain Brown was severely injured in
    an IED attack, leaving severe burns over much of his body. His
    painful recovery involved over 30 surgeries. His wife Amy,
    heroically nourished him back to health. In recognition of Mr.
    Brown's bravery and sacrifice, he was awarded the Purple Heart
    and Bronze Star.
        After being medically retired from the United States Army,
    Mr. Brown went on to start an innovative healthcare company,
    which works with the VA to support the delivery of critical
    medications to our Nation's veterans, serving a network of over
    68,000 pharmacies across the country.
        Captain Brown's work on this venture is a great testament
    to his impressive leadership abilities, solutions-oriented
    mindset that will be of great benefit to the National Cemetery
    Administration, and the veterans we all honor and serve.
        Mr. Brown's confirmation will send a clear message to our
    veterans and their families, that their sacrifices will be
    respected, remembered, and honored. Captain Brown has the
    experience in understanding to care for our service members, to
    get them the dignified burial that they have earned through
    their service, and ensure that friends and families can
    continue to visit their loved ones who lie in dignified and
    beautiful national cemeteries across our Nation.
        I urge all of my colleagues to support the confirmation of
    this patriotic American, who has sacrificed enormously for our
    Nation, to be the Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs. Thank
    you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Sullivan. Thank you very much.
        I now recognize Senator Cassidy to introduce Lieutenant
    Colonel Baehr.

                   INTRODUCTION BY HON. BILL CASSIDY,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA

        Senator Cassidy. Thank you, Chairman Moran and Ranking
    Member Blumenthal. I have the privilege to introduce Lieutenant
    Colonel James Baehr for his nomination as General Counsel of
    the Department of Veterans Affairs. I also welcome his wife
    Jasmine, his father Ted, and his son, whose 4-month birthday is
    today. So, if he gives a real shout-out in a second, we won't
    be surprised.
        Currently, James serves as a military judge in the U.S.
    Marine Corps Reserve and on the Louisiana Veterans Affairs
    Commission, where he has been a great advocate for Louisiana
    veterans. But this just scratches the surface of an impressive
    career.
        James has served in the Marine Corps for nearly 20 years as
    a defense counsel, a civil affairs officer. He was deployed
    during Operation Inherent Resolve in Iraq as a staff officer
    for Lieutenant General Paul Funk. It was during his time under
    General Funk that James earned the Defense Meritorious Service
    Medal and Joint Service Achievement Medal. These accolades can
    speak for themselves, but having a statement of support from a
    General does not hurt.
        In the statement submitted to this Committee, General Funk
    states that ``James' personal leadership contributed to the
    superb success of our mission. This great Marine officer did
    what Marines do. He added clarity to chaos and confidence where
    calamity once prevailed. In a complex operational environment,
    Lieutenant Colonel Baehr played a key role in shaping how our
    mission was seen by the outside world. His work reflected not
    just logistical excellence, that sound judgment and strategic
    insight''.
        Off the battlefield, James prosecuted violent crime and
    civil corruption as a Federal prosecutor in the Eastern
    District of Louisiana. He also clerked on the Fifth Circuit,
    and advised President Trump on veteran's issues, as a special
    assistant to the President during the President's first term.
    While advising the White House, he worked to expand access to
    healthcare, improve suicide prevention measures, and better the
    lives of our veterans.
        And these are issues James knows firsthand as a veteran. He
    has received care at the New Orleans VA Medical Center. He is a
    husband who used a VA home loan to buy his home, and he is a
    father who transferred his GI Bill benefits to his son. We all
    know that our VA can do more for our veterans, that starts with
    having strong leadership.
        I am confident that James will bring legal excellence,
    integrity, and a mission first mindset to the role of General
    Counsel. Most of all, I know that he will put our veterans at
    the forefront of every decision he makes. He has my full
    support. Thank you Lieutenant Colonel for offering yourself for
    service. With that I yield.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Cassidy, thank you. And Senator
    Tillis, I now recognize you to introduce Captain Topping.

                   INTRODUCTION BY HON. THOM TILLIS,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member
    Blumenthal, and colleagues on the Committee. It is my privilege
    to introduce Richard Topping, an outstanding nominee, uniquely
    qualified for Chief Financial Officer of the VA.
        The VA is a lifeline for 9 million veterans, operating the
    largest integrated health system in the country. With a $370
    billion budget, a budget that must be managed with precision
    and accountability. Yet last year, the multi-billion-dollar
    budget shortfall exposed serious failures in financial
    oversight. The department's inability to properly forecast its
    needs created uncertainty for veterans, policymakers and
    taxpayers alike. These kinds of missteps are inexcusable when
    veterans are at stake.
        With 25 years in healthcare, law and finance, Richard has
    worked across TRICARE, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA's
    Community Care system. As an Army JAG officer, he was a pioneer
    in military healthcare financing. In North Carolina, he
    restructured the state's failing Medicaid program, turning it
    into a model of fiscal responsibility and improved care for 2.7
    million people in North Carolina.
        But beyond his resume, Richard understands this system
    firsthand. As a VA enrolled veteran himself, from the early
    days of the Choice program, he has fought to ensure veterans
    can access high quality care, whether in VA facility or in our
    community. I know Richard Topping and I know he is the right
    man for the job.
        I met him 17 years ago; I had more hair and he had black
    hair. Fresh out of the Department of Justice, Richard had moved
    to Charlotte. He was the same then as he is now, eager to serve
    the public and qualified to make a difference. We need a
    decisive financial leader who will bring transparency,
    discipline, and reform to the VA.
        Richard Topping is ready to take on this challenge and I am
    proud to endorse him for the CFO role, and I urge my colleagues
    to support him in his nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Tillis. I now would ask
    all three witnesses to stand and take the oath. Would you
    please raise your right hand. Thank you. Do you solemnly swear
    or affirm that the testimony you are about to give before the
    United States Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs will be the
    truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
    God?
        Captain Brown. I do.
        Mr. Baehr. I do
        Mr. Topping. I do.
        Let the record show all three witnesses answered in the
    affirmative. Please be seated.
        Captain Brown, we begin with you. Thank you for your
    presence here today and your interest in service. And feel free
    to introduce your family as part of your testimony and you are
    recognized now for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF CAPTAIN SAMUEL BROWN, U.S. ARMY (RET.), NOMINEE TO
      BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR MEMORIAL AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
                            VETERANS AFFAIRS

        Captain Brown. Thank you, Chairman Moran, Ranking Member
    Blumenthal. And thank you for inviting me to testify before
    this Committee today. Senator Sullivan, thank you for your
    service in uniform and for your gracious introduction.
        I also want to acknowledge and thank my wife Amy Brown, who
    is not here this morning because she actually has a VA
    appointment and told me she won't be able to watch the hearing
    as she is having labs drawn. She is a combat veteran, the
    mother of our three children, and the woman who loved me when I
    didn't believe it was possible for anyone to see beyond my
    horrific scars in the months after being wounded.
        She is more than a spouse. Amy is my best friend and is a
    hero to me.
        I must also thank President Trump for nominating me to lead
    the National Cemetery Administration. As I hope you will hear
    and understand to my testimony today, this is a sacred duty and
    a commitment our Nation must uphold to our service members and
    veterans who gave a portion or in some cases, all of their life
    in service to the rest of us.
        It is humbling to be before you, a Committee that leads the
    United States Senate and bipartisan work, that delivers life
    changing legislation like the VA Accountability and
    Whistleblower Protection Act, the MISSION Act, and the PACT
    Act. It is equally humbling to be considered as someone who
    will lead the National Cemetery Administration, which has a
    legacy of honoring our veterans and the families it serves with
    distinction, and boasts an impeccable record of customer
    service.
        I am the son and grandson of veterans. I was raised in a
    family where we were expected to join the military after high
    school. My journey down that path began just months after our
    Nation was attacked on September 11, 2001. I was accepted to
    the United States Military Academy at West Point and reported
    for training and my education in less than a year after those
    attacks.
        My family members walked that path alongside me. My father,
    two younger brothers and my wife all deployed to Afghanistan or
    Iraq. I lost a soldier as a result of the roadside bomb; at the
    same time, I received my wounds that still scar me to this day.
    I lost friends in Afghanistan and Iraq and I even lost my
    closest brother to suicide as a result of the unseen wounds
    from traumatic brain injuries sustained in combat operations
    over the course of his three deployments to Helmand,
    Afghanistan.
        I have devoted my life to this country and its veterans,
    both in uniform and after I was medically retired. I have
    worked for and with veterans service organizations. I have run
    a company that provides the Department of Veterans Affairs with
    emergency or urgent care pharmaceutical services for our
    veterans. And the VA has been my primary healthcare provider
    for 13 years since I retired from the Army. As a result, I
    commit to you that if confirmed, I will always put veterans and
    their families at the center of everything I lead.
        The greatest lesson I learned in uniform came to me on that
    fateful day in the desert of Afghanistan on September 2008. As
    I lay face down in the dirt and dust, covered in flames from
    the top of my head to midway down my legs, I reached a
    significant point in my life. I finally faced my own humanity
    and realized that I could not save my own life.
        Isolated and alone in my own living nightmare, I cried out
    to my Creator, Jesus Christ and my mother. I had three thoughts
    in this moment. I wondered how long it will take to burn to
    death. I pondered the transition from this life to the next and
    what it was going to be like. And then I made the conscious
    decision to give up the will to live. A version of me died in
    that moment.
        I was reborn when I heard the voice of my gunner scream out
    ``Sir, I've got you''. After smothering the flames that burned
    my body, his words gave me the miracle of hope. That hope
    rescued me and it was the start of a journey that brings me
    here before you today.
        The message of hope that I received on the battlefield, is
    one that the National Cemetery Administration delivers every
    day to the families and loved ones who are left wondering if
    they can go on with their lives after losing a cherished person
    who served this country. When that day arrives, the National
    Cemetery Administration is there to tell those family members
    and loved ones ``We've got you''.
        I understand this responsibility and sacred duty to fulfill
    President Lincoln's promise, ``Take care of those who have
    served in our Nation's military and for their families,
    caregivers and survivors''. That is why I sit before you today
    to ask you to support my nomination to become the next Under
    Secretary for Memorial Affairs.
        Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Captain Brown appears on page 43
    of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Moran. Mr. Brown, thank you for your very
    meaningful testimony. Lieutenant Colonel Baehr.

     STATEMENT OF JAMES BAEHR, NOMINEE TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, U.S.
                     DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

        Mr. Baehr. Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal,
    honorable Members of this Committee.
        It is the honor of my life to appear before you today as
    the nominee for General Counsel of the Department of Veterans
    Affairs and to tell you about my commitment to my fellow
    veterans.
        I am profoundly grateful to President Trump for this
    nomination and to Secretary Collins for his confidence in my
    ability to fulfill this role. If confirmed, I pledge to
    continue to uphold my lifelong commitment to the Constitution
    and devote myself fully to the department's sacred mission, to
    care for our veterans, their families, caregivers, and
    survivors.
        I am blessed to have some of my family in attendance. My
    father is here, who has always taught me to pursue service over
    self. My mother is here too in spirit, though she passed away
    several years ago, she taught me to never give up on your
    impossible dreams. My brother is here with his family. He has
    taught me what it means to be loyal to a comrade and to a
    brother, and many friends are here as well.
        And most importantly, my wife Jasmine is here and our
    newborn son James, who is 4 months old today. I cannot thank my
    wife enough for the sacrifices she has made to support my many
    endeavors and that she will continue to make, should I be
    confirmed. And it is my hope that my son would want to choose
    the path of military service, that has been the most important
    and noble decision I have made in my life. And someday that he
    would be blessed to call himself an American veteran.
        I was an incoming freshman when terrorists attacked the
    World Trade Center. I was 19 years old when I ran into an
    Officer Selection Officer in the dining hall of Dartmouth
    College, who changed my life. He asked me if I wanted to go to
    Officer Candidate School that summer. I had no business going
    to Quantico. I had no family service tradition. I was a nerd,
    but I could not shake the conviction that I should go, I should
    serve. And I said yes to that Officer Selection Officer. I went
    to Quantico and when I graduated, I was blessed to become a
    Marine.
        After law school at UVA, I was blessed to serve as a judge
    advocate, defending my fellow Marines at Camp Pendleton,
    California. After active duty, I took a clerkship in New
    Orleans on the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. I was then hired
    as Federal prosecutor and served in the Department of Justice
    for years under presidents of different parties. I remained in
    the Marine Corps Reserve, serving as a civil affairs team
    leader and then deploying to Iraq in 2018 during the fight
    against ISIS.
        When I returned from Iraq, I experienced firsthand that
    sense of dislocation that so many veterans feel after coming
    home from the intensity of deployment to the civilian world.
    And that is an experience I will take with me to the role of
    General Counsel, if confirmed.
        It was around this time that the opportunity arose to enter
    a different mission: to become a key policy advisor to
    President Trump on veterans' issues in his first
    administration. I have worked closely with VA, and many of the
    dedicated staffers in this room to improve veteran access to
    healthcare, increase accountability at VA, and address veteran
    mental health and suicide.
        I am proud of the bipartisan accomplishments that we
    achieved with the support and help of this Committee and
    President Trump. After the administration, I returned to
    litigation to fight public-impact constitutional cases--
    representing litigants challenging government overreach and
    service member families impacted by government negligence. I
    continue to serve in the military reserve, upholding the law,
    as a military trial judge.
        I would take all of these experiences with me in my service
    to veterans at the Department of Veterans Affairs. I am not
    just a nominee, my life is entwined with the VA. As Senator
    Cassidy said, I received care at our beautiful New Orleans VA
    Medical Center. My family purchased our home from a VA home
    loan guarantee, and I transferred my GI Bill, that the VA
    administers, to my son. I serve as an appointed commissioner at
    our state's Veterans Affairs Commission.
        I have a deep appreciation for the challenges that
    department faces, and the urgent need to ensure that veterans
    receive the highest level of service that they have earned. And
    you have my wholehearted commitment to uphold the oath to the
    Constitution that I swore as a Marine and as a prosecutor, and
    to place the veteran at the center of all that I do.
        The decisions that General Counsel makes are not just books
    in the law. They are decisions that impact the lives of the
    veterans every day, and I will never forget that. If confirmed,
    I will work tirelessly to advance principles of accountability,
    integrity, and mission accomplishment in the Office of General
    Counsel.
        First, the accountability. The first lesson of Marine Corps
    leadership is that ``You are responsible for everything that
    happens or fails to happen under your command''. I will take
    responsibility for my actions and those of my office. Second,
    integrity. I will fully commit to faithfully interpret the law,
    and provide the Secretary the best legal counsel so that the
    office operates with trust and credibility.
        And third, mission accomplishment--making certain that my
    office is never the obstacle to impede the VA from delivering
    the care, benefits, and services that veterans have earned in a
    timely fashion.
        I am humbled by this opportunity to continue serving my
    fellow veterans. If confirmed, I will work tirelessly to
    support the Secretary and this Committee in delivering on the
    promise made to every veteran, and to secure that promise for
    the veterans who will come after us.
        Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today,
    and I look forward to answering your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Baehr appears on page 73 of
    the Appendix.]

        Chairman Moran. Thank you for your testimony. I recognize
    Captain Topping.

      STATEMENT OF RICHARD TOPPING, NOMINEE TO BE CHIEF FINANCIAL
              OFFICER, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

        Mr. Topping. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member
    Blumenthal. Thank you, Senator Tillis and distinguished Members
    of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear
    before you today.
        It is a profound honor to be nominated for this role. I am
    deeply committed to the mission of the VA and if confirmed, I
    will work to ensure that our veterans, families, caregivers,
    and survivors receive the care and benefits they have earned.
        I am deeply grateful to President Trump and Secretary
    Collins for their confidence in me. I am grateful to the
    Members of this Committee for considering me to serve our great
    Nation alongside the men and women who are dedicated to
    delivering on one of America's most sacred promises.
        Over the last few weeks, I have had the opportunity to meet
    with several Members of the Committee and your staffs. I have
    appreciated the direct candid input and guidance about your
    priorities and opportunities for how we can fulfill our shared
    commitment to veterans. Our meetings were an affirmation of the
    singular importance of the mission, and the critical role to
    which I will be entrusted, if confirmed.
        I am an Army veteran. And for the past 20 years, which is
    all of my adult life after completing my military service, I
    have been a beneficiary of VA. I have grown up with the VA as a
    constant support and resource. VA has provided for me and my
    family in ways both small and large. From simple primary care
    checkups, to the VA loan that allowed me to purchase my family
    home, to the programs that will be there for me as I age and my
    needs become more complex. Just about the only thing in my life
    that has not changed over the past 20 years has been the VA.
        But it is not just me. My grandfathers, the first in their
    families who received college educations, did so through the GI
    Bill. Both World War II Veterans, one Navy, the other Army. So
    just about the only thing they agreed on was the importance of
    the VA and giving them their first chance to succeed.
        My younger sister, who became life threateningly ill in
    Iraq, received almost all of her post-military care support
    from VA. And while she ultimately passed from her illness, my
    family and I personally experienced the life sustaining care VA
    provided her. Finally, the newest VA enrollment in my family is
    not my son. He is too young and with his early aptitude for
    engineering, I am quite worried that he is headed to the Navy.
        No, my family's newest VA enrollee is my father. A Vietnam-
    era veteran, he has both Medicare and private coverage through
    my mother's retirement as a public school teacher. But even
    with that coverage, he still struggled to find specialized
    hearing care related to his military service with jet engines.
    So we turned to the VA. He applied, was rated, enrolled and
    received incredible specialty care in a matter of months. It
    was care that only the VA could provide. A commitment that our
    Nation made to my father decades ago was there when he needed
    it.
        While VA has cared for me and my family, I have been lucky
    in my career to be able to care for others. More than two
    decades, I have had the opportunity to work in government and
    private sector, with the Nation's largest healthcare programs,
    TRICARE, Medicare, Medicaid, Marketplace, and VA's own
    Community Care.
        All of these programs are complex, funding can be
    difficult, capabilities often lag requirements and programs
    must constantly evolve to meet the needs of individuals they
    are intended to serve. That work can often be financially,
    operationally, and politically challenging. But through these
    experiences, I have developed a strong understanding of the
    complexities and responsibilities involved in leading large
    organizations and managing complex financial systems.
        The more critical an organization's mission, the more
    critical its accountability. As CFO, I will use my experience,
    skills and leadership to coordinate and enhance VA's financial
    systems, ensure taxpayer dollars are used effectively and
    transparently, and maximize financial operations across the
    agency. My focus will be on enhanced financial reporting,
    improved budget forecasting and management, and ensuring the
    continued modernization of VA's financial infrastructure and
    technology. If confirmed, I will work with the Secretary, this
    Committee, VA's incredible career staff, my fellow appointees,
    and the many other stakeholders who embrace the responsibility
    to care for veterans.
        I am honored to be nominated to serve an organization that
    has done so much for me and for my family. May God bless all
    those who have fought and sacrificed for this great Nation. I
    am forever grateful.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am prepared to respond to any
    questions you and the Committee may have.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Topping appears on page 123
    of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Moran. Mr. Topping, I thank you and the other two
    witnesses. I thank you for your service. And we will now begin
    an opportunity for Members of this Committee to ask you
    questions.
        Mr. Baehr, I would like to start with you. First of all, I
    ask you to give General Funk my regards. He served at Fort
    Riley and First Infantry Division and at Fort Leavenworth in
    Training and Doctrine Command, and I hold him in the highest
    regard.
        First of all, we often--this Committee--often find our
    request for information waiting for the Office of the OGC to
    provide us with that answer. Can you commit to me that you will
    do everything you can to see that this Committee gets the
    information that we request in a timely fashion?
        Mr. Baehr. Yes Sir. I think the oversight function of this
    Committee is absolutely essential in our constitutional
    structure. I never want the Office of General Counsel to be the
    impediment to you receiving information that you require to do
    that job.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you. You have mentioned the
    Constitution in your statement several times and just now, and
    my question to you is, are there any circumstances you would
    recommend to the Secretary to disobey an order of the court or
    disregard any court decision or ruling?
        Mr. Baehr. Absolutely, absolutely not, sir. As a military
    judge myself, I understand the importance of our courts in our
    constitutional system, and the importance of following the
    Constitution and the court's orders.
        Chairman Moran. I thank you for that answer. And now let me
    turn to you, Mr. Topping. In 2017, a North Carolina state
    auditor found that while you served as the Chief Executive
    Officer of Cardinal Innovations, a mental healthcare
    organization, you overspent on administration and contracting
    to include your salary as well as excessive expenditures on
    cars, credit cards, social gatherings, travel bonuses for
    employees, and explored business opportunities outside the
    company's core mission.
        The audit was followed by your departure. Would you please
    explain these circumstances, from your point of view, where the
    ongoing litigation currently stands and why the Senate and the
    American people should put their faith in you with financial
    management at the Department of Veterans Affairs in light of
    these allegations?
        Mr. Topping. Sir, thank you so much for the question. In my
    25 years in this business, every single independent financial
    audit that I have ever been a participant in or accountable for
    has resulted in a clean audit opinion attesting to the accuracy
    of the financial statements of my company. What you are
    referring to is the North Carolina program audit. That was a
    political audit by an elected Democrat who was opposed to the
    work that my company and I were doing to implement Governor
    McCrory's Medicaid reform.
        The allegations she made were false, they were misleading.
    I said so at the time. I corrected the record. You can read my
    response in the report. And the allegations that then led to
    frivolous litigation, has since been dismissed. The litigation
    that I filed to defend myself resulted in a $500,000 defamation
    judgment in my favor. And after the audit, our auditor made
    these false misleading, and according to the court, defamatory
    statements. She was indicted for misuse of public funds, pled
    guilty and was removed from office. I am confident that my
    business record and her criminal record speak for themselves.
        Chairman Moran. I thank you for that answer. I recognize
    Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Brown, as
    you know, the NCA consistently ranks high, in fact, perhaps
    highest among all government agencies in terms of customer
    satisfaction. It is a sacred mission that the NCA performs. I
    am deeply concerned about the projected firing of 80,000
    members of the VA workforce, including potentially NCA
    employees. Will you commit to this Committee that you will
    stand up against firing any of the NCA employees who are
    important to fulfilling its mission?
        Captain Brown. Thank you Senator. What I can commit to you
    is that the mission will always be first. When I was in the
    Army, we had a motto that ``No mission too difficult, no
    sacrifice too great, Duty First!'' In this case, the veteran is
    the mission, and everything that the Secretary has spoken about
    publicly, he has stated as much.
        So, to the extent that the mission of NCA, which is to
    honor the lives of our veterans, their family members, to
    ensure that they are properly memorialized, that is my focus,
    and I will do everything I can to make sure that that mission
    is never impeded.
        Senator Blumenthal. So, you will stand up to any cuts that
    are made, for hiring freezes?
        Captain Brown. Senator, I don't yet know exactly how the
    field operations are conducted. And so, what I can tell you is
    the mission will never suffer, if confirmed, under my
    leadership.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Baehr, let me ask you, currently
    there is a policy we have heard that requires VBA employees to
    first contact their superiors for permission, that is political
    leadership before they talk to the Office of General Counsel.
    In other words, they have to get permission from the political
    leadership before talking to the Office of General Counsel.
    Would you oppose that kind of policy?
        Mr. Baehr. Thank you, Senator. My goals would be
    accountability and communication, making sure that the Office
    of General Counsel provides consistent advice. I am not there
    now and I don't know all the details of the policy, but my goal
    would be to efficiently provide responses across the
    enterprise, across the entire client base, which is the
    Department of Medical Affairs and the veterans that we serve.
        Senator Blumenthal. Wouldn't you agree that VA employees
    should be free to talk to the Office of General Counsel without
    first seeking permission from the political leadership?
        Mr. Baehr. Sir, in general, I think communication is vital.
    I do think it is important that it occurs in an organized
    fashion so that employees are not providing one piece of advice
    to one person and one piece of advice to another that is
    distinct or different.
        So, my goal would be to achieve communication in an
    organized fashion. In terms of other concerns such as, for
    example, whistleblower issues or retaliation, you know, we have
    a special structure at the VA that permits those folks to go to
    the Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection and
    other places to pursue those.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, I think that is a complicated
    answer to a question that could be answered very simply, that
    employees should be free to seek legal advice on issues before
    they take action that might violate the law. Wouldn't you agree
    with that as a very simple proposition?
        Mr. Baehr. Yes, sir. It is a general proposition. I would
    agree with that.
        Senator Blumenthal. I know that I and a number of my
    colleagues on both sides of the aisle have been frustrated in
    the past with how long the VA takes to promulgate rules and
    implement policy. Will you commit to try to speed the timelines
    for that purpose?
        Mr. Baehr. Absolutely, sir. I think that is one of the most
    important missions that the office does in terms of its role in
    regulatory guidance, in rulemaking. I will set rigorous metrics
    to increase our efficiencies and ensure that our team rapidly
    accomplishes the mission for the service of our veterans. I
    know there are a lot of important rules that you and others
    have proposed, and I would look forward to the opportunity to
    help the office increase efficiency in that role.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Topping, you said that, in
    connection with the audit that the Chairman mentioned, that it
    was done by a--I am not going to use your words exactly--by
    political appointee or was politically motivated. What is the
    basis for that statement?
        Mr. Topping. She is an elected Democratic official.
        Senator Blumenthal. But I am a Democratic elected official
    and I am asking you questions. That is not necessarily a
    political exercise.
        Mr. Topping. Yes, sorry about that.
        Senator Blumenthal. The mere fact that she was an elected
    Democratic official does not make it a political inquiry or
    witch hunt. What is the basis for your statement that it was
    politically motivated?
        Mr. Topping. Thanks for the question. And again, as elected
    Democrat, she was opposed to the work that we were doing to
    implement the Republican Governor's Medicaid reform. And all
    this was related to the same issue in North Carolina, which was
    the fight over Medicaid managed care. And there were two sides
    to that. There were those of us that felt the system was
    broken, that it was not serving patients and that it needed to
    be fixed. There were those that felt we didn't need to fix
    anything; we could simply flood the system with billions of
    dollars of new Medicaid expansion money and provide support to
    political supporters in the process.
        The choice is very clear, patience or politics? I picked
    patience. And if confirmed in this position, and I find myself
    in a situation where I need to choose between veterans and
    politics, I will choose veterans.
        Senator Blumenthal. My time has expired. I have some
    additional questions, maybe my colleagues will cover them on
    this issue. Thanks for your response.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Cassidy.

                           HON. BILL CASSIDY,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA

        Senator Cassidy. Lieutenant Colonel Baehr, in your pre-
    hearing responses, you stated that you have prioritized timely
    access to benefits for veterans and updating electronic systems
    for a more efficient VA.
        There was somebody sitting there at a previous hearing and
    I asked about using artificial intelligence, and he said,
    ``well, we're getting there'', and I said, how you getting
    there? He goes, ``we're using optical character resolution to
    convert printed documents to something that could be a PDF and
    reviewed by people at home.'' And I remember doing that 20
    years ago when I was way back, when before I was in politics.
    And so, I don't really consider that modernization, I consider
    that kind of almost stone age application of technology.
        And I lead into that because one thing that would be
    modern, if you will, is to use artificial intelligence to
    significantly speed up the processing of veteran benefits
    claims. Backlogs would be gone very quickly, if we had a large
    language model with a human in the loop, making sure the
    decision was right and just. And it would also lower cost. I
    mean, it's just like better for the veterans, lowers cost, I
    could go on.
        So, I have been told that currently the VA does not have a
    roadmap on how to incorporate AI into its modernization, and
    has not yet developed formal policy guidance to support the use
    of AI technologies in the Veterans Benefits Administration. So,
    a long introduction, asking you to commit to working with this
    Committee to make such a roadmap including appropriate
    timelines, to incorporate AI capabilities to modernize benefit
    application and claims review, and to speed up and improve how
    veterans are served.
        And by the way, to also look to make sure that if there is
    any fraud or any inappropriate applications to also be rooted
    out. I am kind of begging the answer, but I am hoping to get
    the answer.
        Mr. Baehr. Thank you, Senator Cassidy. In terms of AI, I
    think I would turn to what the Deputy Secretary said in terms
    of its ability to assist with claims development. Senator King
    obviously asked about that and raised some concerns about the
    ultimate decision-maker being a human being.
        So, I would certainly defer to the Deputy Secretary and the
    Secretary's vision. I do see a tremendous opportunity for
    technology and to the extent that my legal counsel can help us
    move more efficiently in any component of the department. I
    would certainly be eager to look into that.
        Senator Cassidy. There has to be a human in the loop, but
    when you look at months and years delay, and sometimes people
    dying before decision is made, there has got to be some
    improvement. And to put our head in the sand and say that this
    is not a technology which could serve the veterans better, is
    putting our head in the sand.
        I accept that you will defer to your superior, but I would
    urge that once that superior decides to do this, boom, you just
    come back and talk to us. Mr. Topping, you have mentioned
    several ways that Veterans Administration is struggling to
    provide quality healthcare to veterans. Administrative
    complexities and insufficient capabilities leading to long wait
    times. My bipartisan VetPAC Act with Senator Hirono would
    create an Independent Policy Advisory Commission of Medical
    Experts and veterans to review critical areas of the VHA to
    improve patient care. And the VA has said that they support
    this legislation.
        So again, I am begging the answer because I am giving my
    hand, but I guess, what is your attitude toward an expert
    driven third party review of the VHA, including budget
    management operations, and would that go to help improving the
    concerns you outlined?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, as I think even Secretary said at his
    confirmation hearing, that part of putting veterans at the
    center of everything we do, is improving the opportunity that
    they have to receive care. One of the things that we can
    certainly do at VHA that has been done in the rest of
    healthcare is bring in the program, bring the process, bring
    the expertise that exists elsewhere, not just inside VHA.
        There are tremendous opportunities to learn from these
    other healthcare programs, not the least which is TRICARE
    sitting over at DOD, and bring some of those in and get the
    advice and implement those programs at VA. That is certainly
    something, pending the Secretary's engagement, I would be
    interested in following up on.
        Senator Cassidy. You know, utilization review and prior
    authorization has a little bit of a bad name, but when done
    appropriately, it keeps inappropriate care from being
    performed. And right now, at least last time I had asked, VA
    does not have that, meaning that if the patient goes to an
    outside setting, she or he may end up with inappropriate care.
    And I am a doctor, so if you do too many procedures, inevitably
    you get the complication. So, in our desire to make sure that
    the veteran has what she or he needs but not more than what he
    or she needs, I would ask you to also look at that.
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I will and I am going to plus one you
    on that. It is the med management--utilization management, but
    also the care coordinator that really drives that as well too,
    as you know.
        Senator Cassidy. Amen, brother. Totally. I yield.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Murray.

                           HON. PATTY MURRAY,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

        Senator Murray. First of all, thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank
    you all for being here today. I think you all agree that we as
    a country make a sacred oath to our veterans to take care of
    them when they return home. And you are asking to be part of
    that system.
        Mr. Baehr, I remember when we met a few weeks ago, you
    talked about you just transferred your VA education benefits to
    your son. I was really glad to hear that because you as a
    veteran earned that benefit through your service. And in fact,
    all our veterans deserve access to the benefits they earned
    through their service. So, you can imagine why I, and many of
    us are very concerned about Trump's plan now to fire over
    80,000 VA employees and how that would seriously disrupt
    veterans being able to access, not just their obviously
    education benefits, but their disability benefits, healthcare,
    home loan benefits, all of that they have earned. So, Mr.
    Baehr, I wanted to ask you, do you support those widespread
    cuts across the VA?
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, and as you know, I am not at the VA and
    had no role in any of those choices or decisions. As an
    individual who uses VA myself, of course, I want to ensure that
    we have the best services and benefits. I also, as a veteran,
    want to see the VA improve, and I think this entire Committee
    does as well.
        So, I would review the law and I would advise the Secretary
    on following a legal path and pursuing his vision for putting
    the veteran at the center of all we do, if confirmed.
        Senator Murray. Do you think that firing 80,000 people will
    make it more or less difficult for veterans to get access?
        Mr. Baehr. I have not looked at the situation myself,
    Senator, and I don't know what the--I just read the public
    reporting on it. I understand there's some exempt positions.
    The Secretary said that he is focused on care for veterans and
    making sure veterans don't lose care or benefits. So, I don't
    know where those opportunities for efficiency or not exist in
    the system. My role, if confirmed, will be to ensure that
    everything we do is lawful and compliant with Title V, Title
    38, and other rules and regulations and provide----
        Senator Murray. This Committee over the years has often
    discussed wait times, people not getting access. That has
    really increased in the last month or so from our veteran
    community. And it takes people to process. It takes somebody
    there to talk to. So, I would just remind all of us that this
    is a people organization, and if we fire 80,000 people it's
    going to be really challenging and difficult, if not impossible
    for our veterans to get the care and benefits that they have
    earned.
        I kind of just reference that this Committee has worked to
    pass a lot of really important pieces of legislation that
    require vital changes at the VA. That include the Caregivers
    Program that I passed when I was Chair of this Committee. The
    Deborah Sampson Act and of course the PACT Act, which just
    passed recently.
        During Secretary Collin's nomination hearing, he testified
    that he agreed with providing vital health care and benefits to
    veterans, and we have to get it right. However, I just have to
    say, I have really serious concerns that this administration
    now is picking and choosing which laws to follow, which means
    not living up to the promises we have made to our veterans and
    really ignoring the intent of Congress.
        For example, we know that VA is doing a review to determine
    whether it is fully compliant with the MISSION Act, but not
    reviewing the compliance with any other piece of legislation.
    Mr. Topping, let me just start with you. Is the PACT Act less
    important than the MISSION Act?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I think all the legislation passed by
    this Congress is important.
        Senator Murray. Do you think VA should pick and choose
    which laws to follow?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I think like any organization with
    limited resources, time, capabilities, there is always a
    prioritization, none is more or less important but I think what
    the Secretary said he is doing is, he is focused on maximizing
    efficiency, redeploying those resources so they are front
    facing and mission-essential to veterans, and ensuring that the
    veterans remain at the center of everything we do.
        I am not there, I am not exactly sure how the
    prioritization works, but I understand what the Secretary has
    articulated his goals to be.
        Senator Murray. Mr. Baehr, do you think that the VA should
    pick and choose which laws to follow?
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, I believe that the VA should follow all
    the laws and if confirmed, I would advise the Secretary on how
    he can fulfill his role in the best course of action with all
    the laws and regulations that are passed by Congress.
        Senator Murray. I just have a few seconds and I just wanted
    to ask you, Mr. Baehr, do you believe it is legal for DOGE to
    have access to veterans' personal information?
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, again, I am not at VA and I am not
    familiar with what is going on. I am just operating on what I
    have read in the public news. And as the Deputy Secretary said
    in his hearing, there are significant protections for veterans'
    information. All three veterans before you, our information is
    at the VA. So, we are certainly sympathetic. I don't want
    anyone looking at my podiatry records or other embarrassing
    items----
        Senator Murray. Personal, financial, health, all of that.
    So, if the department is given directives by DOGE or by the
    White House that you believe are illegal, will you follow those
    directives?
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, as I said before to Senator Moran, I
    will always pursue the Constitution and follow the law. I don't
    believe I will be given illegal directives, but I will always
    follow the law.
        Senator Murray. Thank you.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Tillis.

                           HON. THOM TILLIS,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

        Senator Tillis. We have known each other for 10 years.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations to
    all of you for your nomination. I intend to support your
    confirmation. Mr. Topping, about three years ago, we had VA
    administrators in this very room to talk about the PACT Act
    implementation. I voted against the PACT Act. I was one of
    about eight or nine people that did because I didn't think it
    was the ``plumbing'' for getting it right had been done by
    Congress.
        The problem is we had a President who was pressing the
    Congress to move forward and we had a Democratic Chair who
    decided to move forward in spite of the promise to get the
    plumbing right. Now, and I said that at that time, I said, we
    are probably, I think my exact quote was ``about 18 or 24
    months from now, you could have a real crisis in terms of
    people, technology, infrastructure, to actually support the
    will of Congress''. That is where we are now.
        The shortfall that we had announced last year, the
    shortfall is ahead of us. The headwinds that you had to have
    ahead of us that are driven purely by the PACT Act
    implementation not being thought out. It's got to be a big task
    for you.
        How are you going to go about making sure that we address
    the fiscal crisis that Congress imposed on you all, and assure
    we get the budget right, and we do not have a continued impact
    on VA care, which I do believe we are right now as a result of
    the PACT Act that, not against the policy, against the
    employer, but concerned with the implementation.
        Mr. Topping. Senator, you have been remarkably consistent
    on this issue for as long as I have known, and I know as a
    consultant, I have known you long enough to know too that you
    are tough on this because you know what the right answer is. If
    confirmed, my priority as a CFO will be financial reporting
    analytics, budget forecasting and management, financial
    infrastructure and technology. And that is going to require
    getting the right teams and expertise, the organization
    structure that drives controls and accountability and having
    the right process and tools in place.
        Having said that, I will follow the appropriation as they
    are made by Congress, but the idea would be to have maximum
    efficiency, maximum capability, and maximum flexibility, so
    that we move the dollars accountable for every single one, but
    move them around to best meet the mission and ensure we are
    following the Secretary's guidance to put the veteran at the
    center of everything that we do.
        Senator Tillis. Now on its face, Mr. Topping, do you think
    an electronic health record--I get the size and the scope of
    the VA and I get the complexity of the VISNs and I get the
    complexity of an application portfolio that's exploded and
    everybody's using Excel spreadsheets, Access database, whatever
    they are to make ends meet, and there is a lot of variation
    out. There is a complex legacy environment that they were going
    into.
        But can you imagine what we have done to spend over $10
    billion on electronic health record implementation in the VA,
    crossing Republican and Democrat administrations. What on earth
    could we possibly do to get that under control? And in your
    role, the fiscal implications of a multi-billion-dollar
    electronic health record system that hasn't yet been fully
    implemented over, what is it now, five or six years? That seems
    like it should be an indicator of your first day in office, one
    of the failures of implementation. Again, I am not criticizing
    the Biden administration any more than I am when it started in
    the Trump administration. In some way this project went
    sideways.
        When you are confirmed, can you commit to me that you will
    look at this through the lens, through your responsibilities as
    CFO and come up with a start, stop, continue, on a program that
    should have been finished by now?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I absolutely can commit to that. And
    I understand that enterprise IT implementations are difficult
    everywhere. It is tough in the private sector, it is tough in
    the public sector. VA is big, but this has been done before and
    everywhere else.
        Senator Tillis. My guess is it was a failed implementation
    where we said yes, too many times, and we did not document all
    the changes that were used to accommodate what was largely a
    customizable off-the-shelf system that should have had maximum
    compatibility with the Department of Defense. It is the same
    platform. We are whiffing on it, and that is preventing us from
    having that seamless transition of data across the whole of VA,
    to make sure that we have every piece of information we need on
    veterans to give them the best care possible.
        So once you are confirmed, I would like you to get that on
    your radar, because it is bleeding and we have got to fix it.
    Mr. Baehr, I want to tell you, I noticed little baby James
    cried a minute ago and it reminds me of what I have told a lot
    of people, having two kids and these sort of formal settings,
    and having to take them out really quickly. There is nothing
    more beautiful than the sound of someone else's baby crying.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator Tillis. Senator Hassan.

                       HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

        Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Senator Tillis.
    That is what my mother used to say to me at five o'clock in the
    morning when it was my baby who was crying and she could roll
    over and go back to sleep.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Hassan. Good morning and thank you all for your
    service. Congratulations on your nominations, and
    congratulations to your family as well, because this is a
    family affair, both your service to your country, and these
    nominations in your future service.
        Lieutenant Colonel Baehr has already answered this question
    but to you Mr. Brown and to you Mr. Topping, I just want to get
    a straightforward, simple question answered. If directed by the
    President to take action that would break the law, would you
    follow the law or follow the President's directives?
        Captain Brown. Senator, thanks for the question. I cannot
    imagine a scenario where the President would ask me to do
    anything unlawful, but my oath is to the Constitution.
        Senator Hassan. Captain Topping.
        Mr. Topping. Similar answer. I can't imagine the President
    would ask me to break the law, but I will follow the law.
        Senator Hassan. Both of you, I will just say the fact that
    you say you can't imagine it, is disappointing. It is a lack of
    imagination given the President's record and what he has done
    in his first three months in office. But let me go on now.
    Captain Topping, I wanted to follow up on a question. Let me
    also--Captain Brown and Captain Topping--if the court issues an
    order requiring the Department of Veteran Affairs to take or
    refrain from taking specific actions, will you follow the
    court's order? Captain?
        Captain Brown. Senator, I will always follow the law,
    including court orders.
        Senator Hassan. Captain Topping.
        Mr. Topping. Absolutely the same.
        Senator Hassan. Now, I want to follow up on a question
    Senator Blumenthal was talking to you about Captain Topping.
    You talked about what you referred to as a politically
    motivated audit. And that you were exonerated and the person
    who charged you with misconduct or wrongdoing was found guilty
    of defamation. And those are compelling facts.
        But in Senator Blumenthal's, follow up to you, you talked
    about what constituted political motivation, and the way you
    talked about it really concerned me. So, I am about to ask all
    three of you a question about the VA's plan to fire 80,000
    employees, even as we are enrolling more and more veterans.
        And just for context, I am a former Governor. I have
    overseen reorganizations and layoffs. I understand what it is
    to balance a budget. I understand difficult decisions sometimes
    have to be made. But do you think my concern about the firing
    of 80,000 employees at the VA, as we are expanding services, is
    a good faith policy concern? Or is my growing concern about
    these firings going to be just dismissed by you as political
    because I am in a different political party?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I will go first on that. Again, I am
    not at VA and have not been part of the conversations----
        Senator Hassan. No, this is about whether people of
    different political parties in the United States can have
    legitimate good faith differences of opinion, and whether we
    are going to engage each other in believing in our good faith,
    or whether you are going to dismiss anybody who is a Democrat
    as just being politically motivated?
        So what is it? Are you going to be able to engage with us
    in good faith policy questions, or are you just going to
    dismiss everybody on the side of the dais or any other
    Democrat, because we are Democrats?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I absolutely welcome the political
    debate, the discourse, the difference of opinion.
        Senator Hassan. These can be policy debates, not even
    political ones. This is the VA. This is a bipartisan Committee.
        Mr. Topping. Yes, ma'am. And let me give you what my
    approach to this issue would be. Again, bringing a corporate
    perspective on this, it is what I know publicly. What I know
    publicly is what the Secretary has done is to say, we are on a
    GAO high-risk list since 2015, the VA needs reform, and that is
    a bipartisan----
        Senator Hassan. I am going to stop you here because my time
    is limited, and I want to get to the question of these layoffs.
    But I would like you to reflect on the fact that, when people
    have good faith policy debates in the United States of America,
    it does not mean that all we care about is politics, especially
    when we are talking about veterans. We have veterans on both
    sides of the aisle here. I am the daughter of a World War II
    Veteran, and the last thing on my mind right now is politics.
    And I hope you can take that to heart.
        Now, I do want to ask you about the plans to layoff or fire
    80,000 folks at the VA. The administration has recklessly fired
    VA employees, pausing hiring of the VA, and undermined
    established contracts--all actions that I believe will harm
    veterans care and benefits. Going forward, the Trump
    administration plans to fire 80,000 employees, something that
    the Secretary has publicly acknowledged.
        In 2022, more veterans became eligible for healthcare and
    benefits under the PACT Act, and I am going to differ a little
    bit with Senator Tillis, we didn't do it because the President
    wanted it, we did it because veterans in this country rightly
    demanded it. It was well past due.
        So, the VA subsequently hired more employees to support
    these veterans, now President Trump and Elon Musk want to fire
    those employees. So just in a recent hearing, I asked VA
    Assistant Secretary, Engelbaum, if he could guarantee that
    veterans would not be negatively affected by President Trump's
    plan to fire these VA employees. He could not provide me a
    satisfactory answer.
        So now I will ask the three of you, and I am running a
    little bit over time, so just yes or no answers. Do you support
    the administration's plan to fire nearly one fifth of VA's
    workforce, including many employees who are themselves
    veterans? Captain Brown.
        Captain Brown. Senator, thank you for that question. And I
    just would like to say that in the spirit of good faith policy
    concerns, that I think that we owe it to the Secretary in good
    faith to hear his full plan, which none of us have heard yet
    and he is putting veterans first, so----
        Senator Hassan. So, I will take that as you can't guarantee
    it. Lieutenant Colonel.
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, I think some of these issues are under
    active litigation and going to the Supreme Court now, so it
    would be improper, I believe, for me to comment personally.
        Senator Hassan. Again, you can't guarantee that it is not
    going to impact veterans' care. Captain Topping.
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I understand the policy concern and
    the debate and I would approach this by looking at what is the
    process, how is it being done, why, and then what is the
    outcome?
        Senator Hassan. And I thank you Chair for your indulgence,
    and I will submit the rest of this portion of my question for
    the record. I am just going to say this, that if you want buy-
    in from everybody on this, the Department needs to have
    transparency and needs to indicate how they are going to
    guarantee that veterans care will not be delayed, that
    appointments will not be delayed, and that the processing of
    claims will not be delayed. Thank you Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Sullivan.

                           HON. DAN SULLIVAN,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

        Senator Sullivan. Thanks Mr. Chairman. Mr. Baehr--I want to
    congratulate all the nominees again. I appreciate your service
    both in the military and wanting to do this. Mr. Baehr, I need
    your commitment to work on this issue that I am sure will anger
    you as much as it has angered me. This is the Camp Lejeune Act,
    where we passed compensation for Marines who served--the Camp
    Lejeune, because of contaminated water for them and their
    families.
        And I tried really hard and the Biden administration wanted
    us to--that was their advice--to put caps on contingency fees
    so most of the money would go to the Marines, not to trial
    lawyers. And we couldn't get that done. I am not going to
    accuse anybody here, but there is a lot of politics. We talk
    about politics. So, you saw these, all these ads, and we have
    all seen them, by the way, it is in the billions of dollars of
    ads, okay?
        These law firms saying, hey, sick Marine, you need help, we
    will help you. My team investigates this. Some of these law
    firms, I won't name them, I have been naming a lot publicly.
    They charge these Marines and their families, 60 percent, 65
    percent, 70 percent contingency fees. It is disgusting.
    Everybody knows about this; I raise this all the damn time.
        I couldn't get my amendments through, people blocked them.
    I won't go into the politics, but let's just say there is a lot
    of politics here, okay? Disgusting. I have never seen an issue,
    10 years in the United States Senate that called out for more
    justice. You are either enriching trial lawyers and screwing
    the Marines and their families, or you are helping the Marines
    and their families.
        So, I went to the Attorney General of the United States,
    Merrick Garland. To his credit, he worked with me because I
    made a suggestion; hey, at least we can cap these fees at the
    Federal Torts Claims Act limits--he said, came back to me two
    weeks later--I really appreciate the Attorney General--Senator,
    you are right, we agree with you, 25 percent, which is way too
    high for litigation, 20 percent for filing.
        He made an announcement saying, law firms in America, if
    you charge more than that, you will be subject to civil or
    criminal penalties. This is Biden's Attorney General. So, here
    is the commitment I need. These law firms are still doing these
    ads, they are still ripping off. I mean, think about it. It is
    like a zero-sum game. We are either getting these--a lot of
    these firms are really, really, really rich, enriching these
    guys more or sick Marines and their families. Which one do you
    think should be getting the money?
        Mr. Baehr. Thank you, sir. I think the issue of
    representation, making sure that folks have aggressive
    representation, helping them and helping them to get the money
    is important. And the VA has----
        Senator Sullivan. You are getting ready to lose my vote
    here. That is the wrong answer. The Marines are the ones who
    need money.
        Mr. Baehr. Absolutely sir. I was going to say that.
        Senator Sullivan. You and I need to talk because you just,
    boy oh boy, that is the wrong answer----
        Mr. Baehr. I am sorry sir.
        Senator Sullivan. Here is what I need, a commitment from
    you on, Attorney General Bondi has already said she is going to
    do this. Secretary of the Navy already--all we want is an
    implementation of what Merrick Garland said he was going to do.
    Can I get your commitment to do that?
        Mr. Baehr. You have my commitment to look at any
    legislation you support----
        Senator Sullivan. No, I am talking about what the Attorney
    General of the United States already said is the law. Right?
    This comes under the Federal Tort Claims Act. Okay. Will you
    work with the Attorney General of the United States, the
    current one--not Merrick Garland--the U.S. Secretary of the
    Navy, to make sure that the limits that Merrick Garland put on
    these awards, 25 percent and 20 percent for filing, is going to
    happen?
        Mr. Baehr. I am happy----
        Senator Sullivan. The answer to my question is yes.
        Mr. Baehr. I am happy to look at it, sir. Yes, sir.
        Senator Sullivan. Well, I just might be a no on that. You
    and I need to meet, seriously Lieutenant Colonel.
        Mr. Baehr. I will be eager to meet, sir.
        Senator Sullivan. Mr. Brown. Captain Brown, I have an
    innovative idea I want to work with you on. The VA recently did
    a grant program for Veterans Cemetery Program in Alaska. We
    have more veterans per capita in each state of the country, and
    this was one of the first that we have gotten ever. So, it was
    in the Fairbanks and the interior part of our state, which is
    great. So, I really appreciate that happening.
        We have a whole bunch of small Alaska Native communities
    throughout the state. Over 230 villages in Alaska are not even
    connected by roads. So, these are small little villages,
    hundreds and hundreds of them in Alaska. Alaska Natives serve
    at higher rates in the military than any other ethnic group in
    the country.
        So you go to these villages, there is so many veterans,
    they are so patriotic. Can you work with me in this Committee
    on, maybe, I am sure it matters in other rural communities like
    Maine or you know, Arizona, to work with this Committee on
    maybe an idea of like, they don't have to be giant VA
    cemeteries, but maybe just smaller plots of land that can honor
    the service of these native Americans, who serve at very high
    rates in the military, in small villages that usually don't
    have any kind of cemetery at all, honoring the veterans.
        Captain Brown. Senator, I would love to follow up with you
    to learn more about Alaska's Native needs specifically and
    happy to have that discussion.
        Senator Sullivan. Great, thank you. Thank you Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. You are welcome Senator Sullivan, Senator
    King.

                        HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is not a normal
    confirmation hearing. We are talking about these three
    nominees, but the context is that the VA is going through a
    tremendous amount of what I consider damage. While we are
    playing ``Nearer My God to Thee'' on the deck of the Titanic,
    we have had firings, we have had 2,400 firings so far. One of
    the most offensive things about these firings Mr. Chairman, is
    that apparently most of the letters that the folks got cited
    performance issues, with no basis whatsoever. That is not good
    management. It is not fair to those individuals. And I know it
    has been enormously problematic for those individuals.
        And then we received the idea that we are going to fire
    83,000 people over the next six or eight months. But this
    Committee has had no plan whatsoever. Your testimony, Mr.
    Baehr, I don't know about the plan. Neither do we, and we
    should. We have had no communication that I know of, defining
    what the plan is going to be, how those people are going to be
    chosen, what the impacts will be. And by the way, it is an
    arbitrary number. They said we are going to return the VA to
    the staff that it had in 2019.
        That is just out of the blue. Why not 2020? Why not 2015?
    It is an arbitrary number. It is not based upon performance or
    need or analysis whatsoever. And in fact, seven laws have been
    passed since 2019. One of which is the PACT Act, which requires
    enormous additional staff in order to administer it properly,
    as Senator Tillis indicated.
        And then we have the Secretary telling us that this is
    going to produce better service. I don't think that passes the
    straight face test. So, my problem with these nominees is
    nothing to do with their qualifications or their history. In
    fact, Mr. Baehr has impeccable educational qualifications--went
    to same college and law school that I did. But a call not
    answered, is denial of benefits. A veteran who has to wait
    months for an appointment, is a denial of benefits and it can
    be a death sentence.
        And then there is the issue of the canceled contracts. We
    have had--the Secretary issued a little video proudly saying,
    we have canceled 600 contracts and saved so much money. That
    was about a month ago and we still don't know what the
    contracts are. The Committee doesn't know what the contracts
    are. What are they for? Are they for toilet paper or are they
    for counseling? Are they for the kinds of services that
    veterans need? We don't know that.
        And so, my belief here is today, and again, it doesn't have
    to do with the qualifications of these three nominees, but we
    ought to stop talking about nominees at this Department until
    the Department start telling us what they are going to do and
    justify its terms of service to the veterans.
        It is easy to say, we won't disturb the service to the
    veterans. I was at a--we were all at a large hearing with the
    DAV a couple of two or three weeks ago. We had 2 or 300 people
    in the audience, and I read the quote from the Secretary saying
    this won't affect veterans or service to veterans whatsoever.
    And there was a groan throughout the room, they know damn well
    it is going to affect. You cannot fire a fifth of a workforce
    of a major Agency and expect to not have some effect on the
    delivery of services. It just, as I said, it doesn't pass the
    straight face.
        I understand Mr. Chairman, that our role is to talk about
    our nominees and all those kinds of things, but I think we are
    doing a disservice to the VA to be even talking about nominees.
        And my final problem, these poor two fellows came to my
    office and I told them when they walked in that I was not going
    to vote for them. And the reason is, I voted for Secretary
    Collins and he made a lot of representations about the VA and
    he was going to be open to the Committee and responsive and
    everything else. And I feel burned by that vote, because the
    first thing I got was 2,400 firings, ostensibly for
    performance, which everybody knows was not true.
        And then 83,000--by the way, it is 83,000, not 80,000 if
    you go back to 2019--and the lack of communication with this
    Committee about these plans. I am sorry Mr. Chairman; I just
    can't support these nominees. Thank you for your time and I do
    appreciate the service each of you has rendered to the country.
    I completely understand that. And I want to reiterate that my
    comments are not directed at you, but directed at what I think
    is a diminution of service to our veterans they absolutely do
    not deserve. I guess I should mention that, of those 83,000,
    undoubtedly 30,000 would be veterans themselves. Thank you for
    your service. You are fired. That is no way to run the Veterans
    Administration. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

                         HON. MAZIE K. HIRONO,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII

        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Chairman. Welcome to each of
    you. And yes, these are not normal times. You all are being
    dropped into a situation that has to do with not only the
    Veterans Administration, but just about every other
    administration agency in government. So what is happening to
    every department is mass firings not based on performance or
    anything else for that matter.
        Let me just start with the two questions I ask of every
    nominee for any of the committees on which I sit in, and these
    questions have to do with some level of ascertaining the
    fitness of all of you to serve. And I will start with Captain
    Brown and we will go right down the line. Since you became a
    legal adult, have you ever made unwanted requests for sexual
    favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or
    assault of a sexual nature?
        Captain Brown. No, Senator.
        Mr. Baehr. No, Senator.
        Mr. Topping. No, Senator.
        Senator Hirono. Have you ever faced discipline or entered
    into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct?
        Captain Brown. No, Senator.
        Mr. Baehr. No, Senator.
        Captain Topping [No response.]
        Senator Hirono. You have been asked a lot about the impact
    of these staffing cuts and it is astounding to know that not
    only have 2,400 employees of VA, including how many veterans,
    but another 80,000 to come. Do any of you know what the plans
    are on firing 83,000 more people at the VA? Have any of you
    been apprised on any plans? And I would say probably Mr.
    Topping, you should know about what you are going to be facing.
    Would you like to make a comment? Do you know anything about
    how the VA is going to fire 83,000 more people?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, again, I am not at VA and I have not
    been part of these conversations.
        Senator Hirono. Is your mic on?
        Mr. Topping. Yes, ma'am. I will come closer. I have not
    been at VA, I have not been part of these conversations. What I
    know is from what I know that is publicly available, is that
    the Secretary has started with a baseline and it is the 2015
    398,000 employees is a baseline. He wants to pull the data, he
    wants to look at what the requirements are, he wants leadership
    input, and then he is going to make determinations about how to
    most efficiently and effectively structure VA, such that it
    does not negatively impact and perhaps enhances the care and
    benefits available to veterans.
        Senator Hirono. First of all, there is a way that you are
    supposed to go about riffing and firing and I suppose this is a
    question for Mr. Baehr?
        Mr. Baehr. Yes, ma'am. Yes.
        Senator Hirono. So, you are going to be the General Counsel
    for the VA. And would you think that firing 1400 people to
    start--2,400 without any legal basis just to say, oh, they are
    being let go because of performance, which is not, there is no
    evidence of that, and then another 80,000. As the person that
    would be the general counsel, how would you advise the VA to go
    about firing 83,000 people?
        Mr. Baehr. If I am confirmed, I would advise the Secretary
    under the requirements of Title V and Title 38, advise them of
    the best legal counsel I can. Those particular issues are
    before the courts presently and headed to the Supreme Court.
    And I can't personally----
        Senator Hirono. Well, you are supposed to have a plan,
    write a riff plan before you just start firing people
    wholesale. Is that what you would--in fact, that is what the
    courts are demanding. Not only have the courts told all of the
    administration agencies, you have to rehire everybody, many of
    them are being rehired and placed on administrative leave. So,
    it's a mess. It's chaos.
        And what is happening is tremendous fear, not just in VA.
    And I don't know how you could fire close to 90,000 or so
    people and at a time when there are even more veterans needing
    VA services. How all of that is even supposed to measure, make
    sense? It does not. So, for Mr. Topping, you are going to be
    the CFO, Chief Financial Officer. Does it make a lot of sense
    that, first of all, you fire all these people and then you are
    told by the courts you have to rehire them. And then they are
    rehired and put on admin leave. Does it make sense that we are
    having to pay people to not be doing their jobs?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I am not at the VA. We will comply
    with the law and always----
        Senator Hirono. You know what, all of you say that--comply
    with the law, which is the law as interpreted by President
    Trump, because he thought it was okay to fire thousands of
    Federal employees leading to court lawsuits, leading to
    restraining orders, leading to courts telling you all you have
    to rehire everybody.
        One more question for you, Mr. Topping, think about it.
    There was a letter that went to a lot of people, the ``fork in
    the road'' letter, and I am told that that letter led to a
    number of people from the VA who are taking that early
    retirement, whatever you want to call it. And then the council
    at the VA said in following up on the people who took this
    offer, which I question the legality of, now the council has
    sent a letter to all people on the VA who signed onto this,
    that the VA is going to be responsible for paying them to not
    work until September. Does that make a lot of sense to you?
    Like who told the council to obligate the VA to pay people for
    not doing anything until September? Does that make sense to
    you?
        Mr. Topping. If confirmed to CFO, I will ensure that VA
    meets its financial commitments, including other court orders
    and you have got my commitment to that.
        Senator Hirono. So, you think it is okay that the VA has
    obligated itself to pay all these people, who I don't even know
    how many people in the VA took the ``fork in the road'' so
    called offer--it is okay to pay them to sit there doing nothing
    until September? That is what you are saying meaning VA's
    obligation?
        Mr. Topping. As the CFO, I will ensure that the VA is
    adequately funded and financed to meet its mission and if that
    is a requirement, we will meet it.
        Senator Hirono. Mr. Baehr. Just if I can--do you think that
    that was okay for the legal counsel at VA to send all these
    letters to the people who took the fork in the road offer that
    obligates the VA to pay up?
        Mr. Baehr. I can't comment on anything that is in active
    litigation Senator.
        Senator Hirono. Makes little sense to me. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Before we move on, Mr. Topping, do you want
    to answer verbally the questions that Senator Hirono asked you,
    that I think the other two witnesses answered but you did not
    because you didn't have the moment to do it?
        Mr. Topping. And Senator, no.
        Chairman Moran. The answer to your question about any
    proceedings in regard to sexual assault, et cetera. He was
    ready to answer you but it didn't come out of his mouth.
        Mr. Topping. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Moran. I want Senator Hirono and the rest of us to
    know that, but I also wouldn't want a record in your file that
    left that question unanswered.
        Mr. Topping. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Gallego.

                          HON. RUBEN GALLEGO,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM ARIZONA

        Senator Gallego. Mr. Chairman, it bears repeating we are
    not dealing in normal times. And you know, to the chagrin of
    many of my people in my party, I have been very supportive of a
    lot of the President's nominees. I think only one other Senator
    has actually voted for more Republican nominees. And I did it
    because in the spirit of bipartisanship, with the idea that,
    you know, we have to make sure that we are working together,
    trying to send a message to the American public.
        And I even thought the same thing when I voted for
    Administrator Collins and we served together in the House of
    Representatives. And I still even held out hope when I first
    heard the rumors of the cuts of 83,000. Even talking to some of
    the guys that I served with, you know, when they were talking
    to me about this, I told them, well, that is just insane, no
    one would ever do that.
        Because, I have been here in Congress and even using the VA
    starting when I got back from Iraq 2006. And the only thing I
    remember is that we always needed more people. And the Phoenix
    VA in particular where I belong has always needed more people.
    We have had horrible stories at that VA of people dying without
    treatment, of house administrators, you know, faking lists to
    make sure it looks like they are actually moving through and
    you know, on and on, stories and stories.
        And then, this weekend I was told, and it was proven to be
    true, that the Phoenix VA has to get rid of 15 percent of its
    staff by June. And I am not asking you guys any questions. It
    is not fair to put this on you. I am not going to ask you
    questions and I don't think it is fair for me to make you
    comment on something you are not responsible for. This is not
    at all directed at you, it is more to the general public here.
        But the idea that you are going to be able to cut 15
    percent from the Phoenix VA by June, and it is not going to
    affect services, it is, not just laughable, its sinful. We have
    so many men and women right now that are returning to this
    country and are now seeking services. Some of them, as soon as
    they get here, some of them later in life.
        I finally got back in, you know, in 2016. We have men and
    women that we encouraged to go and sign up for the Burn Pit
    Registry, that, you know, to take advantage of the PACT Act,
    that we told them, come to the VA. And now they are going to
    come, they are going to find that someone is not going to be
    answering their phone calls. They are going to have later
    meetings, are not going to be able to have some of the claims
    that they need disputed fast enough.
        I have heard of veterans now that have to do their PTSD
    therapy in open air cubicles. For us that have PTSD, we know
    how sensitive it is to be talking about what you went through,
    what you are going through, and when you have to expose your
    vulnerabilities. And now we have to do this open air because
    again, we are having these cuts, these arbitrary cuts. And, you
    know, I am faced as a new Senator, you know, what can I do?
    Well, the first thing I try to do is, I try to vote for a guy
    that I thought was going to be logical and protect veterans,
    and he did not.
        And so now, you know, the only thing I have power do is to
    hold all the nominations for any veterans moving forward. Any
    VA appointees moving forward, because 83,000 VA employees
    getting cut means 83,000 opportunities that we are going to
    miss probably helping some of these veterans.
        And I can't live with that on my conscience, knowing that
    there are men and women that are probably not going to get
    their phone calls answered when they are at a Veteran Crisis
    Hotline. Or they are going to have to wait a little longer to
    get that surgery, or they are not going to be able to feel
    comfortable going to the VA.
        And, you know, what is the message that we are sending to
    all the future employees? Before this year, we had been telling
    everybody we need to keep expanding and hiring more people to
    meet the demand. And now we are firing a lot of these men and
    women. And we are not even being gentle about it. We are
    saying, you are out, here is your last paycheck, good luck,
    here is your health insurance, you are off your health
    insurance, you are done.
        And when we go to recruit new men and women to come and
    work for the VA, when they could have competitive salaries
    somewhere else, how are we going to get them back? How can we
    tell that therapist that could probably go into private
    practice and make a lot more money, come and work for us, but
    at any point, we could arbitrarily kick you out. And by the
    way, to get around our laws, our employment laws, we are going
    to say that you actually performed poorly and well, good luck
    with that and who knows if that is going to affect you
    financially in the future.
        How are we going to recruit the doctors, you know, the
    specialists to come work for us if at any point they are not
    even going to have support staff to do this? So, I can't vote
    for any nominee, and not only can I not vote for any more
    nominees, I need to do everything I can to hold as many
    nominees as possible until we stop this. Until I can prove to
    the veterans that I served with, the veterans that I represent
    now in Arizona, all over the country, that this is not going to
    hurt them. This is not going to affect them because I can't
    prove that. And its whatever power I have to protect veterans;
    I am going to do that.
        And I hope in the end we can all find ourselves in a better
    situation where we can firmly say that our veterans are being
    taken care of. We vote you all in to help them out. But at that
    point, that one doesn't exist.
        So, Mr. Chairman, my Ranking Member and the nominees, I
    apologize, but I am still going to stick with my hold on all
    the nominees until I know for a fact that our veterans are
    going to be at least held harmless through these cuts. Thank
    you, Mr. Chair, I yield.
        Chairman Moran. We probably--my anticipation is the
    Committee will have a markup executive session in the next week
    before the end of the April recess to consider these three
    nominees. But knowing, assuming that they are a passed or if
    they are approved by the Committee, we understand there is a
    hold until that is lifted.
        I am not intending to have a second round of questions.
    Senator Blumenthal has something he wants to ask or cleanup or
    clear up.
        Senator Blumenthal. Yes, first of all, as I mentioned
    earlier, I have joined Senator Gallego's hold and I appreciate
    the Chairman adopting the procedure that he has outlined. Let
    me ask just a couple more questions of the nominees.
        First of all, Mr. Brown, as you may know, the VA Secretary
    has canceled apparently 875 VA contracts, many of them dealing
    with service-disabled veteran-owned small businesses. There are
    243 that would be affected and an additional 254 veteran-owned
    small business vendors. You led a service-disabled veteran-
    owned small business yourself that worked with the VA. I wonder
    if you give us your views on these cancellations of contracts
    and how they will impact those small businesses?
        Captain Brown. Thank you. Senator, as a former owner of
    SDVOSB, I was proud to be able to provide those critical
    services to the VA. What I can tell you sitting here before you
    today is, I don't know what those companies and what those
    services or goods that they deliver are. And so without that
    knowledge, I can't tell you exactly what impact it would have
    on those businesses.
        Senator Blumenthal. Will you commit to reviewing them?
        Captain Brown. Senator, I am happy to review them.
        Senator Blumenthal. And will you report back to the
    Committee on what you find?
        Captain Brown. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Blumenthal. Let me ask you also, a number of
    veterans cemeteries across the country, including the State
    Veteran Cemetery in Middletown, Connecticut, essentially are
    running out of space in the coming years. I understand that the
    State of Connecticut has not been able to secure additional
    property that would be needed for a VA grant award.
        I would like your commitment that you will work with me and
    my staff to ensure that the Connecticut State Veterans Cemetery
    in Middletown has options to expand.
        Captain Brown. Senator, I am happy to have those
    discussions with you. But I know that there will probably be
    some local jurisdiction issues that are outside of my control.
    But again, the mission of the NCA is to ensure that all
    veterans have access to these honors, and where we have a need
    for expansion, that is part of what, if I am confirmed, I will
    have oversight on, and I look forward to working with you on
    that.
        Senator Blumenthal. In Connecticut and elsewhere, local
    issues of land use, maybe beyond your direct control, but you
    could have a substantial influence insofar as grants and other
    action by the VA are involved. So, I would like your commitment
    that in Connecticut and elsewhere, you will use your authority
    and influence to provide the necessary land for expansion.
        Captain Brown. Senator, look, again, the mission is very
    important to me as someone who lost soldiers, my own brother.
    And so, I will be committed to this mission. My first request
    of use of influence, if confirmed, is to ask this body to
    ensure that NCA is properly funded for expansion of these
    cemeteries.
        From previous testimony from General Quinn, I understand
    that there is quite a backlog beyond Connecticut where there is
    a lot of necessity for expansion or at least request for
    expansion. And I hope that the Congress will recognize the
    importance of the sacred mission and will appropriate that
    accordingly.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Baehr, as you know, last week,
    President Trump issued an Executive order ending collective
    bargaining at the VA, which would strip 80 percent of all VA
    employees, over 300,000 workers of important labor protection
    and due process rights. The Executive order appears likely to
    violate statutes and the Constitution. Have you an opinion on
    the legality of that Executive order?
        Mr. Baehr. Senator, as I understand that Executive order is
    before the court in Texas, as to whether that can occur or not.
    And just to clarify, you know, obviously I didn't get a chance
    to finish with Senator Sullivan. My focus is always on the
    veteran, it is always on the Marines, and certainly I focus on
    them first and then that was the answer I sought to give, which
    is that veterans will always be first. And so, our efforts at
    VA will always be toward that. I would never choose lawyers or
    any other group of people over our veterans.
        Senator Blumenthal. I would like you to give me a written
    response on that question of the legality of that Executive
    order. Will you do it?
        Mr. Baehr. Well, respectfully sir. I don't think it is
    proper for me to opine on the legality of an order that is
    before the court right now.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, you could articulate a position
    either justifying or challenging the legality of that Executive
    order. You are going to be representing the VA. You should have
    a view on it.
        Mr. Baehr. It confirmed, if blessed to be confirmed,
    because I will be representing the Department, I think it would
    be improper for me to provide a personal opinion on active
    litigation matters.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Topping, is there anything more
    that you would like to add to the responses that you have
    provided so far on your tenure as CEO of Cardinal Innovations
    Health Care Solutions?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I think my record speaks for itself
    and I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
        Senator Blumenthal. Did you mention that there is
    litigation?
        Mr. Topping. There was substantial litigation.
        Senator Blumenthal. Has it been concluded?
        Mr. Topping. All the litigation filed against my company
    and I has been dismissed.
        Senator Blumenthal. Is there any other litigation that is
    still pending?
        Mr. Topping. I have a defense litigation that I filed that
    is still pending.
        Senator Blumenthal. And what is the status of that
    litigation?
        Mr. Topping. I wanted the trial court. I wanted the Court
    of Appeals; it was remanded by the Supreme Court. I wanted the
    trial court last fall, and it is currently back in the Court of
    Appeals and I am confident I will prevail.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you. Thanks Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. No good deed goes unpunished. Senator
    Banks.

                            HON. JIM BANKS,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA

        Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Brown,
    congratulations on your nomination to lead the National
    Cemetery Administration. You are an American hero and an
    inspiration to millions of veterans like myself and non-
    veterans alike. The NCA does great work, is a model of an
    efficient Federal agency.
        The NCA staff also have an excellent relationship with the
    Indiana Department of Veterans Affairs and I look forward to
    carrying on that relationship with you at the helm. I
    wholeheartedly support your nomination. I know you will uphold
    NCA's exemplary reputation.
        Mr. Brown, there are four national cemeteries in my State
    in Indiana. The Woodlawn Cemetery in Terre Haute has been full
    for years. The columbarium at the Crown Hill Cemetery in
    Indianapolis and the New Albany National Cemetery accept
    cremations, but only the Marion National Cemetery is still open
    for burials. If confirmed, will you work with me to explore
    another burial option in Indiana?
        Captain Brown. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Banks. That is a great answer. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Brown, the New Albany National Cemetery and the two
    national cemeteries in Louisville, Kentucky are all closed to
    new burials. Do you think it could make sense to develop a new
    location serving southern Indiana and the Louisville area?
        Captain Brown. Senator with respect, I don't know the exact
    geography of Indiana, but I can tell you that there are many
    requests as I can tell from public testimony in the past, for
    expansion, as I believe from approximately a year ago,
    testimony by Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs, Quinn, that
    there is a backlog of roughly 60 requests for expansion across
    the country.
        And the role of NCA is to try and prioritize where there
    are the funds to do that. I would love to see a situation where
    all of that backlog can be can be worked through. That we don't
    have veterans or representatives concerned about whether or not
    they are going to have honorable and proper burials within a
    close radius of their home. But that is something I need to
    work with Congress on.
        Senator Banks. I look forward to working with you on that.
    I have said many times before that we inspire the next
    generation to serve when we show respect for the previous
    generation. So, I look forward to working with you to clear
    that backlog.
        Mr. Brown, I introduced the Ensuring Veterans' Final
    Resting Place Act to make sure that veterans retain the right
    to be buried in VA's National Cemeteries, even if they receive
    a memorial urn or a plaque. Veterans are losing this right as
    the unintended consequence of an earlier law. If confirmed,
    will you work with me on that legislation to solve this problem
    before more veterans are impacted?
        Captain Brown. Senator, I would love to learn more about
    that legislation and happy to have that discussion.
        Senator Banks. The VA testified already in support of
    Representative Rudy Yakym's--also from Indiana--House version
    of the bill last week, with the condition that if it passes,
    should be subject to the availability of appropriations. It
    would cost about $20 million annually. That is a significant
    amount of money, but I think it is a worthy priority, again
    that we make sure that we honor our Nation's heroes.
        Will you work with me to redirect some of the savings for
    eliminating waste and inefficiency through the VA to pay for
    that important priority?
        Captain Brown. Senator, I don't know the details of this
    legislation. On the top view of it, it sounds like it is a
    noble mission, but I would like to learn more about it.
        Senator Banks. Got it. And we look forward to educating you
    more on the bill and why that is an important priority. Mr.
    Brown, you have seen many of the inner workings of the VA as a
    contractor supporting emergency preparedness. What did you
    observe about the Department's operational problems? And how
    will you approach solving them?
        Captain Brown. That is a good question, Senator. You know,
    as someone who was on the contract side of that, I didn't have
    a view into the VA's decision-making. But I can tell you that I
    am excited for the leadership with Secretary Collins. His
    commitment to the veteran first, veteran care. And as a veteran
    who receives care and has for the last 13 years, my wife also
    receives care, in fact, this morning, she is at the VA for an
    appointment. We are very interested as recipients of VA care as
    well that the VA has this leadership that is focused on the
    mission.
        Senator Banks. Again, I have already praised the NCA, it is
    a well-run organization within the VA. From what you have
    learned so far, what have we learned from the best practices at
    the NCA that we can implement in other VA offices?
        Captain Brown. NCA does a fantastic job of customer
    service. So, a focus on the veteran customer, ensuring that
    last honor is received well. Again, this is something I hear
    from the Secretary that is a focus of his more broadly across
    the entire department. And I look forward to, if confirmed,
    working with NCA to continue that legacy and expect to see that
    legacy spread over to the rest of the VA.
        Senator Banks. Thank you. My time has expired.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Slotkin.

                          HON. ELISSA SLOTKIN,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM MICHIGAN

        Senator Slotkin. Apologies for being late, just got off a
    plane. Congratulations on all your respective nominations and
    for some of the conversations we have had in my office. Mr.
    Brown, as the Under Secretary of Memorial Affairs, you oversee
    really important places. In Michigan, in particular, we have a
    big and growing veteran cemetery.
        In Holly, Michigan, where I live in my farm town, we just
    got an extension and it is just becoming quickly one of the
    biggest cemeteries in the entire country, which we are very
    proud of how we allow people to be buried with respect in the
    final phase of their life for them and their family. What I am
    concerned about is, there is the Veteran Cemetery Grants
    Program. So, a big way that our cemeteries get money to do the
    development and the work that they need.
        And Michigan is one of the few states that doesn't have a
    VA grant funded state veteran cemetery. We are trying to change
    that. We basically--I just was hoping that we can work together
    on expanding that program to all of the states, is number one.
    But number two, I am concerned that these are the types of
    programs that are being looked at right now for cuts, right?
    They are kind of below the radar. It is not veteran care,
    hospital care, directly in a medical setting, and I am
    concerned that programs for cemeteries are going to be cut.
        So how are you going to address this? Since it seems like
    DOGE is coming for every agency, every department, they are
    looking through every couch cushion, how do you respond to cuts
    to programs that you would oversee?
        Captain Brown. Thank you Senator for the question. And I
    agree. This is a duty that we owe to our veterans, and NCA
    fortunately, has a terrific history of fulfilling this duty
    with honor and distinction. And if confirmed, I look forward to
    joining such an illustrious organization.
        With that being said, I think that, you know, the work that
    I would do within VA, but also with Congress, to ensure that
    there are the funds available for this. I have mentioned before
    that in looking at previous testimony, just over a year ago,
    General Quinn sat here and said that there is approximately 60
    requests for expansions across the country at any given time,
    with many of those being five years old and waiting. And so,
    one of the ways that we can ensure that these sorts of
    expansion projects are able to be fulfilled, is that Congress
    appropriate for money.
        Senator Slotkin. Well, first to be clear, just
    constitutionally the President has to ask for it. So, we will
    look forward to seeing those line items in your budget, in
    President Trump's budget that he is about to present. He will
    have every opportunity, as every President does, to present a
    budget, and I will be looking to see if he is actually fully
    funding the veterans' programs.
        What we are seeing right now, while we just had Secretary
    Collins in my state this week, was, you know, kind of tap
    dancing on threats to cut 70 to 80,000 people from the VA. We
    have seen cuts already to the VA that are affecting things like
    answering phones and processing claims.
        I had a veteran's roundtable two weeks ago when we were
    home, and these are not Democrats, just to be clear. Like this
    was a nonpartisan event. And they are like, look I understand
    that we are not cutting the hospitals, but if you are cutting
    the person who does the approval of their claim and they have
    to wait two years before they can schedule an appointment for
    something, it is cutting access to care. It isn't just the
    hospitals.
        So, I am looking forward to the President's budget. We are
    going to go into the details and so should every VSO and every
    veteran organization. The President has the opportunity to ask
    for that money. It can't be that Congress just decides. We have
    to see where the President lies on this. So, we will see.
        Mr. Topping on general counsel matters, do you believe an
    impoundment; do you believe that if this body appropriates
    money, Congress appropriates money as Mr. Brown is saying, that
    lawyers and people at OMB can decide simply not to spend it on
    the things that this Committee and this Chairman chooses?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, I am aware that that is both a
    political and legal issue. I am aware that there is litigation
    around that. If confirmed as the CFO, I will appropriate the
    funding as directed by the Congress to ensure the agency
    manages it efficiently.
        Senator Slotkin. I hope so. I mean, I hope on veterans'
    issues that should be a no brainer, that if we appropriate it
    under this Chairman and it is his stamp of approval that it
    gets spent on the things that we appropriated it for.
    Otherwise, what are we doing here? I mean, in Congress, what
    are we doing? So, in any case, looking forward to seeing all of
    you guys in office and thank you for your work.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Slotkin, thank you. I want to ask
    one more question. Let me make sure--Senator Boozman.

                           HON. JOHN BOOZMAN,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM ARKANSAS

        Senator Boozman. I also apologize for being late. I had to
    be in another hearing, helping with this. So, I don't have any
    questions. I had the opportunity to visit with the panel at
    length in my office and we had a great discussion.
        And I just want to thank all of you for your willingness to
    serve, you are outstanding individuals. You are in a situation
    where you could do very well in the private sector, you have
    chosen to be willing to serve at the VA and I think it is an
    act of service. So, we appreciate that and look forward to
    helping in way we can to take care of our veterans, that is
    what it is all about, and that is what this Committee is all
    about. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Boozman chairs the MILCON VA
    Appropriation Subcommittee. So, you need to pay special
    attention to him and develop a close working relationship.
        Let me ask one final question and then we will conclude the
    hearing. Last week, the VA Inspector General issued a report
    detailing the circumstances surrounding a multiple billion-
    dollar shortfall at Veterans Health Administration's fiscal
    year 2025 budget.
        The IG found that the VA knew well before the fiscal year
    of 2025 request was complete, that the VHA needed more money,
    yet the OMB and VA leaders chose not to seek a funding increase
    until after Congressional Appropriations Committee had done
    their work, and set the fiscal year 25 funding levels across
    the government. We expected that, turned out to be true,
    according to the Inspector General and its a poor way of doing
    business.
        And I want you, Mr. Topping to make any comments that you
    will, about how that wouldn't happen under the administration.
    In other words, the VA determined they needed more money,
    failed to tell Congress, let us reach our agreement on funding
    levels across 12 appropriation bills, knowing that they had a
    shortfall.
        And only after we completed our appropriations top line
    numbers, were we then informed of the problem. We responded,
    incidentally, provided more money, only to be told by the VA
    that they asked for too much money and they didn't need that
    much. Mr. Topping, how would you avoid that?
        Mr. Topping. Senator, thank you for the easiest question of
    the day. I read the OIG reports. I spent the last six years in
    the private sector working for former VA Secretary Tony
    Principi, and I can only imagine if I had said to Secretary
    Principi that, you know, my numbers are 12-6-3-0. The Secretary
    would have told me the numbers need to be right; the numbers
    need to be right, and we will get them right.
        There are different cost drivers between VBA and VHA, it is
    eligibility and claims volume. VBA, it is tougher on VHA. You
    have med management utilization, community care claims lag.
    Having said that, I think the priorities that I would bring as
    CFO, in financial reporting, forecasting capabilities and the
    right tools plus the right structure that drives
    accountability. Senator, if confirmed as CFO, we are going to
    get the numbers right.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you. That would be an improvement. I
    am going to conclude the hearing, although this gives me the
    opportunity to once again, suggest that having an Inspector
    General back at the Department of Veterans Affairs would be
    very valuable and useful.
        It is the Inspector General who provided us with this
    information and other valuable information, and as we, as a
    Committee try to weed out any inefficiencies and fraud or
    waste, it is the Inspector General who is one of our greatest
    allies. So, it would be great for an Inspector General to be
    back in his or her position at the Department of Veteran
    Affairs.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Moran. Yes, Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that I
    strongly join in that view and my hope is that Inspector
    General Mike Missal, who was my guest, state of the union as a
    matter of fact, and is well known to Members of this Committee
    for his excellent work as Inspector General, would be an
    appropriate person to return to that role. Thank you.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal, thank you. There are no
    other questions. I want to thank our Committee members for
    their presence and interest in visiting with our witnesses
    today. I thank our witnesses for their testimony, for their
    past service, and for their willingness to serve other veterans
    in the capacity for which they have been nominated.
        Any Member of this Committee would like to send questions
    for the record to one of the nominees should do so as soon as
    possible, and no later than noon tomorrow. We appreciate the
    timely response that you then can provide as we the Committee
    intends to take up these nominations in Committee before the
    beginning of the April recess. With that, the hearing is
    adjourned. Thank you very much.
        [Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

                            Nomination Material for

                              CAPTAIN SAMUEL BROWN

       [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            Nomination Material for

                                  JAMES BAEHR

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                            Nomination Material for

                                RICHARD TOPPING

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                      [all]