    [Senate Hearing 119-48]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 119-48

                          GRIFFITH AND GIL NOMINATIONS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       to

      CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF PRESTON WELLS GRIFFITH III TO BE UNDER
     SECRETARY OF ENERGY AND DR. DARIO GIL TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY
                                  FOR SCIENCE

                                   __________

                                 APRIL 10, 2025

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                    __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    60-024                     WASHINGTON : 2026

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                            MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine
    JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California
    LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                      Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director
                Patrick J. McCormick III, Majority Chief Counsel
                     Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director
                     Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     1
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from New
      Mexico.........................................................     2

                                   WITNESSES

    Griffith III, Preston Wells, nominated to be Under Secretary of
      Energy.........................................................     3
    Gil, Dr. Dario, nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy for
      Science........................................................     8

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Alivisatos, A. Paul:
        Letter for the Record........................................    52
    American Conservation Coalition:
        Letter for the Record........................................    57
    Aoun, Joseph E.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    53
    Association for the Advancement of Artificial Intelligence:
        Letter for the Record........................................    55
    Becker, Mark:
        Letter for the Record........................................    58
    Chandrakasan, Anantha P.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    59
    Chiang, Mung:
        Letter for the Record........................................    61
    Cordova, France A.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    62
    Dabbar, Paul M. et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    63
    Dirks, Nicholas B.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    65
    Ferrini-Mundy, Joan:
        Letter for the Record........................................    67
    Garimella, Suresh:
        Letter for the Record........................................    69
    Gil, Dr. Dario:
        Opening Statement............................................     8
        Written Testimony............................................    10
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    44
    Griffith III, Preston Wells:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
        Written Testimony............................................     6
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    33
    Hamre, John J.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    71
    Hardy, Randy and Steve Wright:
        Newsdata.com article entitled ``Guest: Letter to BPA
          Customers and Northwest Consumers'' published on February
          14, 2025...................................................    27
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
        Opening Statement............................................     2
    Information Technology Industry Council:
        Letter for the Record........................................    73
    Lane, Neal:
        Letter for the Record........................................    74
    Lee, Hon. Mike:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Liu, Tsu-Jae King:
        Letter for the Record........................................    75
    Martin, William Flynn:
        Letter for the Record........................................    77
    Merzbacher, Celia:
        Letter for the Record........................................    78
    Mihaljevic, Tomislav:
        Letter for the Record........................................    79
    Novelli, Bill et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    80
    Paglia, Vincenzo:
        Letter for the Record........................................    82
    Parikh, Sudip S.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    84
    Schmidt, Martin A.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    85
    Snyder, Barbara R.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    87
    Spergel, David:
        Letter for the Record........................................    88
    Wilson, Heather:
        Letter for the Record........................................    90

                          GRIFFITH AND GIL NOMINATIONS

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, APRIL 10, 2025

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,
                         U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

        The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
        Welcome to the Committee's fourth nomination hearing in the
    119th Congress. Today, we will receive testimony from two
    distinguished Americans who have been nominated by President
    Trump for senior offices within our Committee's jurisdiction,
    and we have a lot to cover in today's discussions. So first
    will be Preston Wells Griffith III, nominated to be Under
    Secretary of Energy, and second will be Dr. Dario Gil,
    nominated to be Under Secretary of the Department of Energy for
    Science. And finally, I have been informed this morning that
    Ms. Kathleen Sgamma has withdrawn her consideration to be the
    Director of the Bureau of Land Management at the Department of
    the Interior. These nominees deserve to be confirmed, and each
    has my strong support. I thank President Trump for nominating
    them and giving us the chance to review them.
        As I mentioned a moment ago, I was informed by the White
    House earlier today that one of the nominees scheduled for
    consideration at today's hearing, Kathleen Sgamma, nominated to
    serve as the Director of the Bureau of Land Management, is
    withdrawn from consideration. That leaves us with two nominees
    before the Committee, Preston Wells Griffith III, again,
    nominated to be Under Secretary of Energy, and Dr. Dario Gil,
    nominated to serve as Under Secretary of Energy for Science.
    Each of these positions carries significant responsibility and
    each nominee will, if confirmed, help shape the future of
    American energy policy and scientific innovation.
        Mr. Griffith is well known to many of us. He served at the
    Department of Energy, at the Office of Management and Budget,
    and at the White House during the first Trump Administration.
    If confirmed, he will be tasked with overseeing some of the
    Department of Energy's most consequential applied energy
    programs at a time when our nation's electric power grid is
    being stressed by a combination of reckless regulatory
    mandates, rapid retirements of baseload capacity, and
    overreliance on intermittent sources of power. I look forward
    to hearing how Mr. Griffith plans to course correct and ensure
    that DOE policies serve energy affordability, reliability, and
    national security interests.
        Dr. Gil would lead the Department of Energy's sprawling
    science portfolio, which includes the 17 critical national
    laboratories. These labs are home to some of the most advanced
    research on earth, but they have also become vulnerable to
    infiltration by hostile foreign interests. I look forward to
    hearing about how Dr. Gil will defend the labs from espionage,
    protect taxpayer investment, and refocus the Department of
    Energy's science mission on basic energy research that
    strengthens the U.S. economy.
        These nominees bring unique perspective and valuable
    experience to their respective positions, and I look forward to
    hearing how they intend to fulfill the responsibilities of
    their respective roles and how they will bring accountability,
    transparency, and balance to the agencies that they have been
    asked to head.
        With that, I now recognize our Ranking Member, Senator
    Heinrich.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Lee, and welcome Mr.
    Griffith and Dr. Gil.
        The Committee meets this morning to consider the
    nominations of Mr. Griffith to be Under Secretary of Energy and
    Dr. Gil to be Under Secretary of Science. I understand that Ms.
    Sgamma will not be appearing before this Committee today.
        The Office of Under Secretary of Energy was established in
    1977 to perform functions and duties assigned by the Secretary,
    and the Office of Under Secretary for Science was added in 2005
    to serve as the Secretary's science and technology advisor, to
    oversee the Department's research and development programs, and
    to carry out additional duties assigned by the Secretary. The
    flexibility built into these two offices has enabled different
    Secretaries to shift functions and programs between the two
    Under Secretaries. Most recently, Secretary Granholm combined
    both the Science and Energy offices under the Under Secretary
    for Science, and she consolidated the Department's Loan and
    Infrastructure programs under the Under Secretary of Energy,
    renaming the office as the Under Secretary for Infrastructure.
    I am told that Secretary Wright has kept Secretary Granholm's
    organizational structure, at least for now, but I am most
    interested to hear from Dr. Gil and Mr. Griffith what issues
    they believe will be in their portfolios, whether there are any
    plans or if there have been discussions about reorganizing
    these offices.
        Overhanging our hearing this morning are, of course, the
    reductions in the Department's workforce, the grant and loan
    funding freezes, the contract uncertainties, and the so-called
    hit list of programs targeted for termination, all of which
    threaten the important work of the Department.
        I will be particularly interested to hear from the two
    Under Secretary nominees how they will balance their competing
    obligations to the President who has nominated them and the
    statutory requirements enacted by Congress governing the
    Department's programs.
        Thank you, Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        The rules of the Committee require that all nominees
    appearing before this Committee be sworn in in connection with
    their testimony. So, if you would both please stand and raise
    your right hands, I will administer the oath.
        Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
    provide to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
    will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
        [Witness panel sworn.]
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Now, you may be seated. I will have each of you begin your
    opening statements in a moment, but there are just three
    questions that are typically posed by the Committee before we
    begin this process for nominees.
        First, will you be available to appear before the Committee
    and other Congressional Committees to represent departmental
    positions and respond to issues of concern to Congress, should
    you be confirmed?
        Mr. Griffith.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir.
        The Chairman. Mr. Gil.
        Dr. Gil. Yes, sir.
        The Chairman. Second, are you aware of any personal
    holdings, investments, or interests that could constitute a
    conflict of interest or create the appearance of such a
    conflict, should you be confirmed and assume the office to
    which you have been nominated by the President?
        Mr. Griffith. No, Chairman.
        Dr. Gil. No.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        And third, are you involved in or do you have any assets in
    a blind trust?
        Mr. Griffith. No.
        Dr. Gil. I do not.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        With that, we will have you give your opening introductory
    remarks.
        Mr. Griffith, we'll start with you, and please feel free to
    introduce any family you may have brought with you. Thank you.

               STATEMENT OF PRESTON WELLS GRIFFITH III,
               NOMINATED TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY

        Mr. Griffith. Thank you.
        Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and distinguished
    members of this Committee, it is a true honor to appear before
    this Committee today as President Trump's nominee to serve as
    Under Secretary of Energy at the U.S. Department of Energy. I
    want to thank President Trump for nominating me to this
    important position. I am grateful for the confidence that he
    and Energy Secretary Wright have placed in me.
        Before I begin my formal remarks, I would like to introduce
    the most important part of my life--my family. Joining me today
    is my wife, Catherine. In fact, today marks our 10th wedding
    anniversary, and she is thrilled to be celebrating here in the
    Senate hearing room.
        [Laughter.]
        The Chairman. You are under oath, sir.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Griffith. I am also proud to have our eight-year-old
    son, Wells, here with us as well. Their unwavering love,
    support, and patience have made this moment possible. I would
    also like to recognize my mother, Donata, and my father,
    Preston, who is courageously battling ALS, also known as Lou
    Gehrig's disease, a horrible and progressive neurodegenerative
    disease. Since I was a boy, his strength has inspired me every
    day and does even more so today. Lastly, I am joined by many
    dear friends in the audience, and I want to acknowledge my
    brother and three sisters and their families. They are all
    watching from home down in Alabama, probably texting me trying
    to figure out how to get the link to work.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Griffith. But I wouldn't be here without their support.
        Like President Trump and Secretary Wright, I have a deep
    passion for public service and an appreciation for the role
    that energy plays in our daily lives. My first impressions
    about energy came as a young boy at our family-owned full-
    service gas station in Mobile, Alabama. My grandfather started
    working there after returning from the Korean War and
    eventually bought it. My father began working there when he was
    13, and worked there until around 2020, when he was officially
    diagnosed with ALS and retired. Growing up, I spent my summers
    and holidays working alongside him pumping gas, changing tires,
    and washing windows in the Alabama heat. It was there that I
    first understood the real-world impact of energy--not in
    theory, but in practice. I remember helping my dad change the
    gas price sign and learning about OPEC before I knew what the
    letters stood for. And when gas prices were high, I saw,
    firsthand, customers having to choose between putting five or
    ten dollars in the tank or buying groceries. When energy costs
    were high, Americans felt it immediately. Energy wasn't just a
    commodity, it was a lifeline.
        Above the three-bay garage doors at the station was a sign
    that read: ``Service Is Our Business.'' That motto stuck with
    me, and in many ways, it shaped my life's path. It's what
    brought me to public service. Since leaving our family gas
    station, I had the privilege of serving the American people in
    multiple roles in the Federal Government. In President Trump's
    first administration, I had the opportunity to work at the
    Department of Energy in the Secretary's office and later as the
    Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for International Affairs.
    I then served at the White House as a Special Assistant to the
    President and Senior Director for Energy and Environment at the
    National Security Council, and later at the U.S. Development
    Finance Corporation. In each of these roles, I worked alongside
    many career public servants, scientists, engineers, and
    professionals who are among the best in government. If I am
    fortunate enough to be confirmed, I look forward to returning
    to work with them and to serve with the same spirit of
    excellence and humility.
        I have seen firsthand the role that the Department of
    Energy and its 17 National Labs play in securing America's
    energy future--through research and innovation to unlocking our
    vast natural resources and technologies to scientific
    advancement. From fueling our economy to powering AI data
    centers to securing our national defense, energy is
    foundational to America's future. America must lead, not
    follow, in this next era of energy transformation. If
    confirmed, I will work every day to advance the Department's
    mission efficiently and effectively and deliver on the
    President's priorities, winning the AI arms race, lowering
    energy costs for Americans, advancing U.S. leadership in
    innovation, and ensuring Americans have access to affordable,
    reliable, and secure energy.
        Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and members of the
    Committee, thank you again for the opportunity to appear before
    you. I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Griffith follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Dr. Gil.

              STATEMENT OF DR. DARIO GIL, NOMINATED TO BE
                 UNDER SECRETARY OF ENERGY FOR SCIENCE

        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich,
    and Members of the Committee. It is an honor to be here, and I
    want to thank President Trump and Secretary Wright for the
    trust that they have placed in me with this nomination to serve
    as the Under Secretary for Science at the Department of Energy.
    If I have the honor of being confirmed, I look forward to
    working with all the members of this Committee and to seek your
    guidance.
        I would like to recognize the members of my family who have
    joined me today. My lovely wife of 25 years, Amanda; my
    daughters, Sofia and Elena; my parents-in-law, Steve and Heidi
    Godsoe, who have traveled from Maine; my brother Roman, who has
    done so from Spain, and many extended friends and colleagues.
        As you may tell from my accent, I am an immigrant. It is an
    experience and an identity that has greatly shaped me, and it
    will be the honor of my life to have the opportunity to serve
    the United States, which has given me more than I could have
    dreamed. I have been passionate about science and engineering
    since I was a teenager, when I first came to the U.S. as an
    exchange student from Spain. I became fascinated and ultimately
    became an expert in nanotechnology, a world measured in
    distances that are 100,000 times smaller than the width of a
    human hair. As Feynman stated, it is a world that has ``plenty
    of room at the bottom.'' And plenty indeed, as by the end of
    this decade, we will be fabricating chips that will have one
    trillion transistors, each engineered with atomic precision.
        During my grad-school years at MIT, I was captivated by the
    beauty of quantum mechanics. It was a necessity to understand
    the nanoworld, and it was then that I was first exposed to the
    idea of quantum information. A little over a decade later, I
    had the great privilege to work with my IBM Research team to
    create, in May 2016, the world's first cloud-accessible quantum
    computer. That seminal event, along with the 80 quantum
    computers we have built since, were instrumental in creating
    the nascent, yet vibrant, quantum computing industry. This
    industry of the future is one that the U.S. must dominate, as
    it has profound scientific, economic, and national security
    implications. It is time to mobilize the nation's best teams to
    achieve the final frontier of building an error-corrected
    quantum supercomputer before the end of this decade.
        If confirmed, I look forward to working with this Committee
    to ensure that America wins this great race. Which brings me to
    the core of our current revolution in computing--AI. The field
    is going through a renaissance, with a pace of progress unlike
    anything I have witnessed in my 25-plus year career. Dario
    Amodei, CEO of Anthropic, has evocatively referred to the
    potential of AI as having ``a country of geniuses in a
    datacenter.'' Discoveries that would have taken us decades will
    become possible in years.
        The combination of inspiring missions, broad and deep
    scientific expertise, singular infrastructure, and nation-scale
    resources make the U.S. National Labs the world's greatest
    platform of scientific discovery in the physical sciences. The
    powerful aspect of this new era of accelerated discovery_
    powered by what I like to summarize as the world of ``bits +
    neurons + qubits''_has the potential to help the entire
    science, national security, and energy portfolio of the
    National Lab complex, much like secure, reliable, and
    affordable energy can improve the lives of all our citizens and
    accelerate the growth of the entire American economy. Imagine a
    future in which fusion, the grand goal of building a star on
    earth, becomes the first technology fully driven by the AI
    revolution. Using the combined power of AI and supercomputers
    to develop a system model to steer fusion innovation, we can
    shave decades off development timelines. Imagine a portfolio of
    similar grand challenges, from novel catalysts to new
    fertilizers, and beyond. We can usher a new era of sustainable
    abundance and American dynamism.
        If confirmed, I will bring to this role 22 years of private
    industry experience, having served as director of one of the
    world's largest and most influential corporate research
    laboratories. I will bring my commitment to work across
    sectors, having served on the President's Council of Advisors
    on Science and Technology, as a member of the National Academy
    of Engineering, and for the last five years, as a member of the
    National Science Board, of which I am currently the Chairman.
    And I hope that in your consideration of this nomination that I
    will have the privilege to learn from and to work with all of
    you.
        Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Heinrich, and members of the
    Committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the
    Committee today, and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Gil follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you so much.
        We will now begin five-minute rounds, alternating between
    Republicans and Democrats in order of seniority, as modified by
    the earlybird rule. By the way, I really am glad that Catherine
    is here on your tenth anniversary, and so grateful that she is
    able to put on a happy face because still, a lot of people
    wouldn't want to necessarily celebrate their tenth anniversary
    this way. So Catherine, we will try to make it as pleasant as
    possible. And we look forward to one day holding a nomination
    hearing for Preston Wells Griffith IV, when he is nominated to
    a position like this.
        Mr. Griffith, we will start with you. If you are confirmed
    as Under Secretary of Energy, you will oversee the R&D that
    goes into funding a lot of innovation related to our electric
    power generation sector. Nuclear, coal, oil, natural gas,
    geothermal, all these will play a critical role in meeting the
    demand challenge that we are facing due to growth in AI,
    looking specifically at dispatchable and baseload sources of
    power. If confirmed, what role do you think the offices that
    will be under your purview in that position should play in
    meeting that challenge, and how important do you think
    innovations, particularly in the field of nuclear and natural
    gas might be to meeting demand growth?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question, and
    thank you for spending time with us in your office. I really
    enjoyed our visit. That's the exciting thing about this
    opportunity, if I am confirmed. You know, I have mentioned
    growing up in a gas station as a boy_it almost tracks with the
    history of the Department of Energy, where we went from energy-
    scarce to energy-abundant. In the 70s, or even in the Manhattan
    Project, we faced a lot of energy challenges, and now I think
    we are hitting that next energy challenge with powering AI,
    keeping energy affordable, reliable, and secure for all
    Americans, and ensuring that we remain competitive.
        For me, I think, in this role, should I be confirmed, it
    will be to leverage all the resources, the expertise, and the
    funding across the program offices to deliver on the
    President's agenda to accomplish the shared goals and ensure
    that America remains at the top of the global energy systems
    and unleashes that abundance here at home and also abroad.
    Especially with nuclear and natural gas, we have seen the
    benefits of that since the shale revolution. A lot of that
    technology came out of the Department, but to continue to
    double down, using the expertise of the great Department of
    Energy engineers and scientists to leverage these energy
    technologies and sources for America, and again, for our
    partners and allies, especially with nuclear, and making sure
    the Generation IV reactors and the next generation of reactors
    come to market and we ensure that our supply chains are
    abundant and secure, from uranium production, enrichment, and
    fuel.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Dr. Gil, throughout your career in the private sector,
    including and especially during your tenure at IBM, you have
    undoubtedly become aware of the lengths to which China has gone
    to steal intellectual property and technological advances in
    one way or another. Given the cutting-edge research that is
    conducted at U.S. national labs, which will be under your
    supervision in this position, if you are confirmed, how do you
    plan to ensure that these sensitive innovations are protected
    from foreign espionage and from theft, especially from China?
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question, and
    again, I greatly appreciated the time that you spent with us
    prior to the hearing. This topic is, I know, one that you are
    very passionate about, as are many members of the Committee. It
    is of the utmost importance. There is no doubt that these
    technologies in AI, quantum, and fusion, and so on, are some of
    the most consequential technologies in the world, and we have
    to do everything in our power to protect it. I am keenly aware
    that theft of intellectual property--China has been a very bad
    actor in this space. And I am very much committed to working
    with you and all the members of the Committee to implement ways
    and improvements with which we can protect our most sensitive
    technology that we develop in the nation.
        The Chairman. Have you perceived there being lapses from
    outside the Department? Are there things you have been able to
    observe that cause you concern about China's ability to
    infiltrate, spy, and steal some of that intellectual property?
        Dr. Gil. Mr. Chairman, yes, I have been aware, and
    unfortunately, been not only sensitized but have had to deal
    with consequences of, you know, dealing with theft from China
    in the area of semiconductors, in the area of quantum, and so
    on. Through my career, you know, we have been enormously aware
    of the need to protect technology. I have done so in my role at
    IBM, and if confirmed, I look forward to doing so, to learn
    from all the good actions that are happening in the Department,
    but I know in this area there is a lot more to be done, and I
    look forward to working with you to achieve it.
        The Chairman. Great.
        My time is expired. So we will follow up more on that
    later. We will turn it over to Senator Heinrich.
        In just a moment, I have to run to cast a vote in another
    committee. Don't be alarmed, I will be right back.
        Senator Heinrich [presiding]. Thank you, Chairman.
        The strength of our national labs lies in the diversity of
    their science and engineering programs. And even at nuclear
    weapons facilities, like Los Alamos and Sandia, a key factor in
    attracting and retaining top talent is the opportunity for
    scientists to collaborate with leading experts across a wide
    range of fields. I want to know if I have your commitments that
    you will not use your positions to reduce the research
    capabilities and staffing for open science at our DOE national
    labs?
        We will start with you, Mr. Griffith and then go to Dr.
    Gil.
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for your
    time. I enjoyed visiting with you before this hearing.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
        Mr. Griffith. You know, you nailed it. The Department and
    the labs have some of the most talented scientists, engineers,
    and employees in the entire Federal Government. Obviously, we
    are not in the Department yet, but should we be confirmed, I am
    committed to working with the Secretary and you and this
    Committee to make sure that we deliver the efficient use of
    government resources and maintain American leadership in
    research innovation, largely driven by the employees or the
    civil servants at the Department.
        Senator Heinrich. Dr. Gil.
        Dr. Gil. Senator, again, thank you. I really enjoyed the
    conversation we had. And on this topic, I could not agree with
    you more on the importance of the open science component in the
    laboratory complex. So I will say two comments around that.
    One, I was sensitized to the importance of this topic while
    discussing with the Director of Sandia National Laboratory the
    observation that while the open science element that is funded
    under the Office of Science may be a small fraction of the
    budget of Sandia National Lab, in his words, it was almost the
    most important part. And the reason for that was because it
    allows us to attract and retain the talent necessary to fulfill
    the mission, even in the context of the nuclear weapons
    laboratories. And that is something that I have keenly been
    aware of throughout my career, that you have to allow
    scientists an element of that flexibility to keep their
    intellectual curiosity, to keep growing, to think of out-of-
    the-box ideas.
        So you have my total commitment of the appreciation and the
    importance of open science through the entire national
    laboratory complex.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Dr. Gil.
        Mr. Griffith, not an easy one for you, I suspect, but I
    will be curious what your answer is. You have sworn under oath
    today that you will make yourself available to testify to
    Congress, but when the House of Representatives subpoenaed you
    to testify six years ago, you didn't comply with their
    subpoena. You didn't appear before the House. So to be clear,
    when you swore to appear, was your commitment to testify
    unconditionally?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, thank you for that question. As
    you know, that subpoena was related to the President's
    impeachment. The subpoena did not allow for White House counsel
    to be present, and thus the Department of Justice Office of
    Legal Counsel deemed it invalid and instructed us not to appear
    because it did not protect executive privilege for the
    President. So I am committed to following the law, showing up
    before this Committee without subpoena, voluntarily, and
    working with you and the members of this Committee to execute
    the mission of the Department of Energy.
        Senator Heinrich. For both of you--the power to rescind
    obligated funds rests with Congress. It doesn't rest with the
    executive, the Department, or the Department of Government
    Efficiency, whatever that is. Do you both agree that the power
    to rescind obligated funds rests with the legislative branch?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.
        Obviously, Congress has the power of the purse. Should I be
    confirmed, I will, first and foremost, follow the law on
    executing the laws of this body in disbursing government funds,
    making decisions around disbursement in the most efficient and
    effective way possible while being a good steward of American
    taxpayer dollars.
        Senator Heinrich. Dr. Gil.
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
        I am absolutely committed to follow the law and follow
    Congressional direction on appropriated funds.
        Senator Heinrich. Great.
        Mr. Griffith, would you agree that in order to keep energy
    prices affordable for consumers, that we need an energy
    strategy right now focused on rapidly expanding production from
    basically all available sources, including from things like
    renewables and storage?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.
        Absolutely, we need all electrons and we need them in a
    fast rate to meet the growing demand from AI, to meet the
    reshoring of American manufacturing, and to keep prices low for
    American consumers, and I think it's imperative that we, as the
    Department's history has shown, bring all those resources to
    bear for all energy sources that are secure, reliable, and
    affordable.
        Senator Heinrich. My time is expired.
        Senator Hyde-Smith.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much, and I just want to
    congratulate all of you for being here today. These families
    are so proud of you and it's so obvious. And I want to tell you
    how much I appreciate your character and your trust and the
    confidence we can certainly have in you to do everything you
    are supposed to be doing, legally and binding, to this
    Congress. I appreciate that.
        Dr. Gil, the United States has the opportunity to be a
    leader in integrating new technologies, whether it's
    traditional drilling, nuclear reactors, or hydrogen. These
    innovations could help meet growing demands for high-tech
    tools, such as artificial intelligence, that you have talked
    about, that can be applied in virtually every sector of our
    society, from energy production, to agriculture, to
    manufacturing. During our meeting, you discussed that the
    United States has the opportunity to be bolder and inspire new
    generations. It is no secret that we are falling behind China
    in nuclear and hydrogen technologies.
        So what do you see as the Department's biggest challenges
    to fostering bolder innovations, and what steps need to be
    taken for the United States to become more of a world leader in
    energy and technology development?
        Dr. Gil. Well, thank you, Senator. Meeting with you was
    such a great pleasure, and I really valued the conversation.
    And you ask such an important question because we are, indeed,
    in a great race in leading the energies of the future and the
    science and technology portfolio of the future. So the stakes
    could not be higher. The positive message that I want to send
    is that we also have, within our nation, the capability to do
    what it takes to succeed. But to do that, we have to be very
    clear in our ambitions in energy, on making sure that we
    unleash all forms of American energy, and to make sure that we
    have a secure and reliable and affordable portfolio of energy
    sources, including the ones that you listed.
        I think the science and technology domain, simply put--we
    just have to succeed in winning the AI race, quantum, in
    biotechnology, fusion technology. But I will leave you with
    this thought--what we are going to witness in the next four or
    five years are some of the most consequential advancements in
    technology, not just in the last 100 years, but probably that
    have ever been achieved. And you have my commitment to make
    sure that we, if confirmed, that we are going to marshal every
    resource that we have on working collaboratively with Wells and
    Secretary Wright and the entire team to make sure we succeed in
    this great race.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you so much.
        And Mr. Griffith, I am actually going to ask you the same
    question on the challenges, but I want you to know how much I
    appreciate our Mississippi connections, and the service that
    you did our state that we are still benefiting from, and we are
    very proud that we had the opportunity to have you then and we
    are very proud of where you are now.
        So what are the challenges, do you think, that you are
    facing based on that same line of questioning?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, thank you for the question. It
    was great visiting with you, and thanks for all you do for the
    State of Mississippi. I enjoyed my time there, early in my
    career, and for law school.
        I think, you know, we have a big energy gap to fill in the
    future. Electricity demand is skyrocketing. We have to bring a
    lot more electrons to the grid. We have to feed the rising
    demand for AI, for the reshoring of manufacturing in the United
    States, and keeping our prices low, as well as sharing that
    abundance with our partners and allies. So I see this as, you
    know, just like the Manhattan Project or when the Department of
    Energy started with the Arab oil embargo. This is a pivotal
    time for us to meet the challenges of energy--in the present
    and the future. And with all the technologies and science that
    have come out of the Department over the last 30 to 40 years,
    we look forward to taking those to market and deploying them
    commercially to fuel America's future and keep prices low and
    execute the President's agenda.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much, and I certainly
    enjoyed your stories about the gas station, because Mississippi
    is a rural state, and especially with so much timber industry--
    when you are filling up a 200-gallon tank because you are a log
    truck about to go to harvest in the woods, that is such--it
    makes such a difference, and the future is so bright with
    people like you, and I certainly appreciate that.
        Both of you discussed with me that you viewed these roles
    together as a team, and that is very evident today, the way you
    are answering things. Should the Department continue partnering
    with universities and private companies that are willing to
    make investments in research and our energy and high-tech
    future, and how do you see the continued partnerships
    benefiting our country?
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for that question.
        It's an indispensable strategy to succeed. The United
    States spends about $850 billion a year in R&D--$600 billion of
    that is in the private sector doing R&D. So we have to do
    everything in our power to team, as you correctly pointed out,
    and work collaboratively in ways that achieve the national
    mission, and the university ecosystem has an indispensable role
    for that, as does the private sector that conducts R&D.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Did you want to address that at all,
    Mr. Griffith?
        Mr. Griffith. So Mr. Gil and I, I think, hopefully will be
    a good team, should we be confirmed. We look forward to working
    together and executing our mission.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. So the team speaks as one.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Hyde-Smith. We will go to Senator King.
        Senator Heinrich. So, what he said.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Heinrich. Senator King.
        Senator King. Thank you very much, and thanks to our
    witnesses. You are both going into critical jobs, and as you
    mentioned, Dr. Gil, the next few years could be incredibly
    important in terms of to the development of technology.
        One of the technologies I am most interested in is storage.
    We are talking about development of the grid and stabilization
    of the grid, and I hope that both of you will remain committed
    to research and deployment of storage capacity on the grid,
    because I think that is part of the solution. Do you agree, Dr.
    Gil?
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for the question.
        Let me also just say that, you know, since you are
    representing Maine, that I have had a long connection with
    Maine. My wife and Steve and Heidi Godsoe are here from Maine.
    So I have been going for many decades.
        Senator King. Wonderful.
        Dr. Gil. So it's a pleasure.
        Senator King. Tell her to tell her in-laws they saw me
    working.
        [Laughter.]
        Dr. Gil. Will do so.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Dr. Gil. Will do so.
        And yes, I completely agree on the importance of storage
    technology. It's an essential part, not only already, you know,
    in present electricity systems, but also in the future. I will
    also point out that within the science portfolio of the
    Department, we also have a lot of opportunity to accelerate the
    opportunity for discovery of novel and more safe and efficient
    storage technologies. So the commitment is two-fold--both on
    the recognition of the importance that storage plays in our
    energy system, but also that we have to do a lot of discovery
    to make sure that we can take, you know, a very significant
    leap forward, which we can do by harnessing these capabilities
    on AI and in the future of quantum computing as well.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Mr. Griffith, I presume you believe that storage is part of
    all of the above?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, absolutely. Thank you for your
    question. It's the holy grail. We need all energy sources,
    technology, and we need to bring them all to bear to meet this
    growing demand.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Mr. Griffith, I want to talk about three offices in the
    Department of Energy. The elephant in the room here is staffing
    cuts, and I just worry about these particular offices because
    of the important role they play. First is the Grid Deployment
    Office. As you have already pointed out, we are headed into a
    time of dramatically increased electricity demand, but you can
    have all the production in the world, but if you don't have the
    grid capacity, it isn't going get to where it needs to go. So I
    hope that you look on the Grid Deployment Office as an
    important function of the Department of Energy in terms of the
    research necessary, but also just the support of the technology
    throughout the country.
        Is that a fair statement?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, Senator, I worked in the Department in
    President Trump's first Administration, and the work that the
    Department does on grid reliability and deployment is very
    important, and especially will be in the years ahead. And
    obviously, I am not in the building presently, I haven't been
    confirmed, but should I be confirmed, I look forward to
    learning more about all the activity in bringing that to bear.
        Senator King. And part of that activity and part of that
    research is what we call GETs--grid enhancement technologies. I
    hope that is part of the research, because we don't have to
    build all new towers. We can reconductor and use that
    technology.
        Office of Cybersecurity, Energy Security, and Emergency
    Response--I have been working for four or five years on cyber,
    and our grid is a critical infrastructure and is also under
    attack. I have a friend in the utility industry who tells me
    that his company--his electric company--is attacked three
    million times a day in cyber. So tell me about your thoughts
    about what they call CESER.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator. CESER is a very
    important tool for the Department and for industry and its
    stakeholders to prevent against the threat from state and non-
    state actors, but also weather events and other vulnerabilities
    to the grid. I think the mission is important, and should I be
    confirmed, I look forward to working with that and prioritizing
    the mission of CESER to make sure that America's grids are
    protected, secure, and reliable.
        Senator King. I think that is an absolutely critical
    mission. Thank you.
        And then, the final office is the Office of Clean Energy
    Demonstrations, and this is required by law--Section 41201 of
    the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law--and I think you have
    testified that your intention is to follow the law. So I hope
    that includes maintaining the vital programs under this Office
    of Clean Energy Demonstration.
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.
        I am absolutely committed to following the law, first and
    foremost. Again, I am not in the building, not working at the
    Department yet, but I look forward to--I have read the reports
    about OCED and the work that it's doing, but I look forward to
    learning more and making sure we are effectively and
    efficiently deploying those resources.
        Senator King. Well, I get a weekly report on energy costs,
    which include electricity costs, from a variety of sources. I
    would point out that the cheapest forms of energy today are
    solar and onshore wind, and they can also be deployed the
    fastest. If you wanted to build a gas turbine plant, a gas
    generation plant today, it would be five years before you could
    even get a turbine because of the backlog. So I hope that, as I
    say, all of the above includes renewables. Does it?
        Mr. Griffith. Senator, yes. For me, it includes all energy
    sources and technologies that are secure, reliable, and
    affordable. And we need them all because we need more
    electrons. Electrons don't know how they are generated. So----
        Senator King. Thank you. Thank you very much.
    Congratulations on your nomination, gentlemen.
        The Chairman [presiding]. Senator Justice.
        Senator Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Let me just say just this, you know, to all of you, and
    especially to this little fellow, you know, and he is just as
    beautiful as ever, as anybody could ever be, but we have got a
    lot at stake, and at the end of the day, we have got him at
    stake. We have got all of you at stake, but I think your roles
    are going to be so unbelievable and so challenging and so
    wonderful going forward, it will be off the chart. It is
    important beyond belief.
        Now, if I could just tell you just this--I am from West
    Virginia, and we, forevermore, have been an energy state. And
    we know energy, you know, like Bo Jackson, you know, would have
    said--Bo knows. Well, I know, as far as energy, and I love the
    fact that both of you seem to be stuck on ``on.'' I love that
    too, because enthusiasm is contagious. And so, I congratulate
    you on lots and lots and lots of different levels.
        We all know just one thing that is so simple, and that is
    just this_we are going to spin around in a year and a half from
    today, maybe as far as three years from today, and we are going
    to have a demand for electricity that is double--double what it
    is today. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? At
    that point in time are we going to decide? Are we really going
    to decide between homes and industry? Are we going to combat
    one against the other, because we can't do them both.
        Oh, my gosh.
        [The Senator's bulldog arrives. Laughter ensues.]
        Senator Justice. Babydog is here. Okay, well, I will hold
    Babydog in just one second. Let me halfway finish now. That
    just threw me way off base. Baby, calm down. Okay, all right,
    forget that.
        No, let me just say just this--I embraced all the energy
    forms and I would continue to do exactly just that. Now, just
    stay with me just one second. If it is a level playing field
    for all energy forms, we cannot subsidize certain things and
    disadvantage other things, because we are going to awaken to a
    bad day. I hope to goodness that you will always do just this,
    you will always know how hard our coal miners have worked, and
    coal should play a really important role. So with all that
    being said, let me just ask a couple of questions real quick.
        The first question is just this_please tell me your
    thoughts, because the President did something the other day
    that was off the chart. You see, what he did the other day that
    I think was off the chart was just this: My mom and dad loved
    the coal business and loved all the people. That's what they
    loved--the people that worked every single day. Now, just
    imagine this, if you are a coal miner and you got up early in
    the morning every day, you went to work, you took a lot of risk
    by going to work. In many seams in West Virginia, you were in
    coal all day long that you couldn't possibly stand up in, you
    could only sit up in. With that you provided so much either
    power or metallurgical coal, which goes to make steel that
    absolutely fueled us in our world wars, and on, and on, and on.
    And every day people kicked you. Every single day people said,
    ``We don't like coal. We don't like what you are doing,''
    absolutely over, and over, and over. My mom and dad would have
    had big tears running down their face the other day when
    President Trump stood up for them_for those people_because
    honest-to-goodness, they have given us so much, it's off the
    chart.
        So tell me this: where does coal play that role?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question.
        I think all energy sources and technologies are vitally
    important for our energy present and future, and coal,
    especially, in our past and future as well. But a lot of the
    gains we have had that got us to the moment here to have all
    this--to unleash the abundance of all energy sources and
    technologies was through coal. And I think it's got an
    important future, just like all the other resources that we
    have in the United States, and technologies that have been
    developed here as well.
        Senator Justice. Well, thank you so much.
        And before we go any further, I am going to hold Babydog
    here.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Justice. And Baby, you can't be drinking, and then
    let me--all right. Now, let me just say, just this--this little
    rascal has done something that I think is really important to
    all of us, all of us on this Committee_all of you, all of us in
    these wonderful, wonderful buildings that are all across this
    wonderful city. She humanizes us. She makes us absolutely get
    off our pedestals. Absolutely, she makes us know that just
    this--here is her message: She makes you smile. I can see it
    all over the place right now. But you know what else she does?
    She loves everybody. She truly does. I found this in COVID. I
    didn't intend in any way to be hauling a bulldog around. No way
    on earth. We had never owned a bulldog before. She is not
    supposed to like everybody, but she does.
        And with that being said, how can a message be any better?
    It really and truly_if we have made others smile and we loved
    everybody, it would be one hell of a lot better world. That's
    all there is to it.
        So she would say just this--if you are rich or poor, or a
    kid or an adult, or God forbid, a Republican or a Democrat, she
    still loves you. And so, let's just celebrate just this little
    thing as she humanizes all of us, and Chairman, thank you so
    much and Ranking Member, thank you for letting her come. Okay,
    now, we are out of here because she is heavy.
        [Laughter.]
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Justice. Babydog's
    testimony will be admitted into the record without objection.
        [Laughter.]
        The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, I did notice Babydog got five
    minutes as well. I appreciate that.
        Senator Justice. There you go.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Let me say congratulations on your
    nominations. Welcome to your families. What an incredible day.
    I appreciate your willingness to serve. Thank you for that.
        Mr. Griffith, let me start with you. Four years ago, this
    body_and specifically, this Committee, came together in a
    bipartisan way to pass legislation that helps create jobs to
    solidify our energy sector and strengthen our states, tribes,
    and local communities. I have seen_and I think my colleagues
    have all seen_the value of these investments in critical
    sectors for national securities. I know in my state I have seen
    it in the battery manufacturing and in critical mineral
    extraction that we are focused on in Nevada. But now, there are
    concerns that I see in public, hearing about Elon Musk and
    DOGE, the new leadership at Energy, what is happening. I am
    hearing from my state, some of the funding that we fought for
    in a bipartisan way is not getting to where it needs to go for
    these energy projects.
        So, if confirmed, what is your plan to implement the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure and Energy programs that were
    actually enacted by Congress as part of the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.
        If confirmed--I am obviously not in the building_so I don't
    know, I have just read the same reports, I guess, in the press.
    I think, you know, the President's rein on being efficient_
    running government more efficiently and being a good steward of
    taxpayer dollars--I think, should I be confirmed, I would
    prioritize being briefed on this. This is, obviously, and other
    program offices on the spending, the situation there, and
    making sure that we deploy those resources in a way that is in
    the best stewardship of American taxpayer dollars while also
    executing at the same time, which I believe we can do the
    Department's mission in bringing these new projects online and
    bringing this electricity and power and energy back to unleash
    American energy dominance and fulfill the President's
    priorities.
        Senator Cortez Masto. So do you commit to upholding the
    implementation of awards that were funded or contractually
    obligated in recent years under the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator. I am fully committed,
    first and foremost, to following the law. So should I be
    confirmed, I would prioritize understanding the different
    projects, and the details, and the specifics, and working with
    you and this Committee to alleviate any concerns or address any
    questions that you may have.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Dr. Gil, your written testimony noted that the U.S. must
    dominate in quantum computing--I agree with you--in order to
    uncover profound scientific, economic, and national security
    implications. In your professional opinion, how can the U.S.
    further solidify itself in both the discovery and
    commercialization of new technologies?
        Dr. Gil. Senator, thank you so much for the question.
        We have to succeed on that effort, so let me touch on the
    quantum computing effort, for example. This is a most
    extraordinary time and the most exciting time in computing,
    probably since the 1940s. You know, during that decade the
    transistor was invented. The first programmable computers were
    invented. Seminal advances in the theory of information
    processing were developed. And we witnessed the implication of
    that decade for decades to come.
        We are in a similar moment right now. And what it requires
    is that not only we support the basic science and research in
    all of those fields, but that we seek and we demand of
    ourselves the objective of building and leading a capability
    for the nation that we did not have before. And that is what I
    was alluding to in my testimony, that it is time to build a
    quantum-centric supercomputer. It is time to elevate the
    capability of AI to advance scientific discovery and do problem
    solving in ways we couldn't do. It is time now, in fusion, to
    shave off decades of development time cycles. And if we do all
    of that together, as a team, if we achieve that objective, I
    think we will have a portfolio of technologies in the nation
    that would serve us for decades to come, and frankly, even the
    whole world, our allies, and our partners on that.
        On the downside, if we do not succeed on those, and we have
    rival nations like China get ahead of us on that, the
    consequences will be terrible. So we have no choice but to
    succeed, and you have my full commitment to work with all of
    you to make sure we do.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        I will submit the rest of my questions for the record.
    Again, congratulations on your nominations.
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator.
        The Chairman. Senator Murkowski.
        Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning. I
    appreciated our conversations last week. And Mr. Chairman, I
    just want to note for the record, I am disappointed that we are
    not going to have the opportunity to advance Kathleen Sgamma
    for the Congress. Looking at her background and working with
    her over the years on the Committee, she is, I think, very well
    qualified, and we were really counting on her to be able to
    unlock some of the things that had been stalled out in the
    previous Administration, but we are not going to have that
    opportunity, but we do with the two of you to advance to the
    Department of Energy.
        I mentioned in our discussion the situation with Cook Inlet
    gas and the looming shortage that we are facing and the desire
    to move forward, as the President has expressed as well, to
    figure out a way to move Alaska's gas. So I just want you to
    nod your head accordingly and let the record reflect that we
    are all on board in helping to advance Alaska's opportunities
    there, pursuant to that executive order.
        I do want to reinforce what Senator Cortez Masto just asked
    you, Mr. Griffith, with regards to the funding awarded through
    grants and programs that has already been obligated. Know that
    this is a bipartisan request to make sure that we follow
    through with those priorities. Again, we passed the law--the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Act is law, and I think about the
    many, many benefits that we have seen through energy innovation
    and the projects that have really made a difference on the
    ground. So you have indicated that you intend to follow that
    law, but I would hope that you could look expeditiously at how
    we might be able to release those funds that have already been
    obligated.
        I also raised an issue with you in my meeting, and this
    relates to the Office of Indian Energy. As you know, I am
    Chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, and we had
    really looked to the Office of Indian Energy as an area where
    we could make some significant advancements in places where we
    just have met all kinds of barriers that were unnecessary.
    Unfortunately, that program didn't do as much as we had hoped
    in the last Administration, as the focus was almost entirely on
    solar projects, but as much as solar might help us in Alaska,
    there are also so many other pressing needs. Right now, most of
    my communities in the rural areas are powered by diesel
    generation. They don't necessarily want to be, but that's our
    reality, but we have bulk fuel storage issues that are
    heartbreaking in understanding how we can address some of the
    infrastructure vulnerabilities. The Tribal Energy Financing
    Program closed its first tribal loan guarantee this past
    September--the first one. It took them as many years as they
    have. So I would just ask both of you, again, to confirm here
    before the Committee that you will work to identify some
    opportunities to better leverage the resources that are within
    the office to make real progress, not just to stand up an
    office and say it exists and then tell the tribes go out and
    take a look at this, but have no deliverable. So we just ask
    for your support on that.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, thank you, Senator. It was very nice
    spending time with you prior to the hearing last week. I can
    commit, if confirmed, I will work--will prioritize both getting
    up to speed on the OCED and the spending and being responsive
    to this Committee and yourself, Senator, but also working with
    the office, obviously, prioritizing the Office of Indian
    Energy, which has played a pivotal role for the--or can play a
    pivotal role for 574 tribes and Native American tribes in
    America and the Alaska Natives, to make sure that we are
    executing on the mission and delivering results to support the
    Alaska Natives.
        Senator Murkowski. Great.
        And our American Indians around the country.
        Mr. Griffith. Absolutely, absolutely, thank you, Senator.
        Senator Murkowski. Yes, thank you for that.
        Dr. Gil.
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator. Yes, following the same lines,
    one of the things that was very vivid in the meetings that we
    had with you is just the unique opportunities that Alaska
    brings, like the unique environment and how that can be also a
    testbed to not only solve problems in the context of Alaska,
    but also to inspire us to solve problems for the rest of the
    nation and beyond. So that was very clear, and yes, you have my
    commitment to work with you and your staff to make sure we
    prioritize those areas.
        Senator Murkowski. Good. Well, know that we are working
    already on developing an itinerary for the two of you when you
    come to Alaska.
        Dr. Gil. That's right.
        Senator Murkowski. I was just reading a great article on my
    walk in this morning about our little fishing community of
    Cordova that is an energy innovator with hydro and battery
    storage, and the national labs already have it on its map. And
    so, an opportunity for you to see that as well as our
    extraordinary geothermal potential, in addition to all the
    other things that you know. So look forward to that. And I am
    excited about your confirmation here.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both
    for your public service so far and your intention to continue
    that.
        Mr. Griffith, talk a little bit about our grid, because I
    look at AI and the projected growth of the need for
    electricity--almost exponential. And we have looked at the Grid
    Deployment Office, the Loan Programs Office, and Transmission
    Facilitation Program as helping us meet that demand. What are
    your thoughts on probably the most important priorities we can
    take to really make sure we have the grid that we need in time
    for when we need it?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator.
        You know, with this growing demand, that skyrocketing
    demand as a result of the AI demand coming on and reshoring of
    manufacturing, we have to bring up our energy generation and
    production, but it's not going to do us any good if we don't
    have a secure, modern, and strong grid. And I think there are a
    lot of tools at the Department that we need to, in tandem with
    increasing production and generation, use that this Committee
    has and this Congress has passed into law to do just that--
    strengthen, modernize, and secure our grid for our energy
    future.
        Senator Hickenlooper. I appreciate that, and I think it's
    going to have to be all-hands-on-deck to make sure we pull that
    out.
        Obviously, there is a large office of the National
    Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado that we are, I think,
    justifiably proud of, but with all the budget cuts, do you
    think we'll be able to protect, you know, the lion's share of
    the budget, the work that is being done out there, because so
    much of it is in midstream? We are getting there, but we are
    not quite there yet.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir, and a lot to be proud of with NREL.
    It's an important lab that is doing cutting-edge research, and
    I think that we can be responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars
    and run government effectively and efficiently, and if
    confirmed, to continue to execute on the mission that NREL has
    delivered on all these years.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I appreciate that.
        And Dr. Gil, I could ask you the same thing, except I am
    more familiar with your answers. I did want to ask you a little
    bit--in 2024, at a National Science Board meeting, you talked
    about the need to get more young people engaged in STEM. I have
    a son who is just graduating with an electrical engineering
    degree and a minor in computer science, but there are not very
    many of his friends coming along for that ride. What are some
    of your ideas that you could put in place or begin to
    prioritize to get more young people at an earlier age engaged
    in STEM?
        Dr. Gil. Thank you, Senator, for that question.
        I will start also by highlighting my oldest daughter,
    Sofia, who is here, just graduating in computer science this
    spring from Cornell. So like, you know, we are trying to do it
    in the family to keep that going.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Ted is out at Stanford. They are a
    long way apart, but I am sure there is a place to meet in the
    middle.
        Dr. Gil. Yes. Let me address that point. Actually, if you
    were to ask me what are the areas that you are most concerned
    with in the competitiveness of the nation, I would say it's
    this area. And you know, in some ways, the National Science
    Board, we have been discussing a lot as a board the need for an
    NDEA 2.0, like a National Defense Education Act 2.0, and you
    know, there was a seminal moment in the 1950s where there was a
    need to mobilize all the resources of the country to educate
    teachers, to support teachers, to foment Americans entering
    into STEM, and at the time, foreign languages and so on. And we
    really believe that the moment has come to do something
    equivalent right now. And if you look at scores in math, for
    example, for eighth grade, what little progress we have made as
    a nation, we have reversed 20 years of progress after the
    pandemic.
        When you look at STEM graduation rates in China, as an
    example, compared to what we do, we have a lot to be concerned
    about. So I just want to highlight that, you know, if you were
    to ask me what is the single most important thing that we
    should focus on is to do exactly that. And I would love to work
    with you and with Members of Congress to really take serious
    action, that requires local, state, and federal coordination to
    achieve.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great. I assume, Mr. Griffith, you
    agree with that as well? I mean, that's the need and that is
    pretty clear.
        Mr. Griffith. Absolutely. I am just a history major with a
    law degree but my son is a big math--99th percentile in math.
    So hopefully, he will be following in the STEM, in the
    mechanical engineering, like your son.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Well, it's hard work, but I think the
    reward is out there, and actually, my son is looking at
    getting_as he begins working_getting a master's in history as
    well. So they do go well together.
        Let me ask you also about geothermal energy, which I share
    with Secretary Wright, the importance and the potential of
    geothermal. How do you think DOE can support this next
    generation, you know, these geothermal technologies that are
    really just rolling out so rapidly?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, sir, thank you, Senator.
        Yes, I share your enthusiasm and Secretary Wright's
    enthusiasm around geothermal. It's at a pivotal moment. I think
    a lot of the techniques and research that came out of the
    Department of Energy in support of the oil and gas industry can
    also be applied. And I think it has a promising future, and I
    look forward to, if confirmed, getting in the building and
    working to unleash all the tools and expertise at the
    Department to bring that to bear.
        Senator Hickenlooper. Great, I appreciate that.
        I think I am out of time--way out of time--but thank you
    both, again. I yield back to the Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Senator Cantwell.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
        Dr. Gil, I represent Bill Nye, the Science Guy, but I am
    more than happy to say ``Dr. Gil, the DOE Science Guy,'' and
    make sure that we keep our investments. One of those
    investments is in the area of AI and quantum. Both the Pacific
    Northwest Lab and Microsoft are using quantum computing and AI
    high-performance for all sorts of different issues already--
    battery research, computer approaches, simulating turbulence,
    superconductors. So do you support the National Quantum
    Initiative Reauthorization, and if confirmed, would you work
    with my staff and members of this Committee to advance it?
        Dr. Gil. Senator, thank you for your question and for your
    support on this topic for so many years. I really appreciate
    your leadership on that. You are not going to find a more
    enthusiastic person on supporting the National Quantum
    Initiative, and my challenge would be how do we become even
    bolder on what we achieve on that. And the way I frame that
    thinking is not only do we need to support the centers that the
    National Quantum Initiative created and the fundamental
    science, but we must now combine that aspiration with
    delivering a capability for the nation.
        So just like in the past, we built CPU-centric
    supercomputers, like recently, we built GPU-centric
    supercomputers. We have to build a quantum-centric
    supercomputer. And that will mobilize and activate the National
    Quantum Initiative Centers toward a goal, and we have to
    deliver on that goal. So I am a huge supporter of that effort.
        Senator Cantwell. So that's about testbedding?
        Dr. Gil. Testbedding is an element, but it's also to use
    all of those things, the scientific research, the testbeds, but
    to give it a goal is--build a capability with this performance
    at this cost, just like when we would build in the past, El
    Capitan, or any other supercomputers. There is a definitive
    timeline and definitive set of dollars to deliver a capability
    that leads the world. I think we need to do the same thing in
    quantum.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that
    answer.
        Mr. Griffith, obviously, I am a big supporter of BPA and
    what it delivers in cost-based power. I think we need to get
    BPA more support, not less. They have committed to $5 billion
    in grid upgrades using borrowing authority this Committee
    approved as part of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act. I want
    to submit an article for the record written by two former BPA
    leaders, Randy Hardy and Steve Wright, and I want to quote_they
    say, ``we can say with confidence that the level of risk now
    with the existing workforce reductions is unacceptable, and at
    some point, further reductions would make outages practically
    inevitable.''
        [The article referred to follows:]
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Cantwell. So that concerns me when two former BPA
    administrators make those kinds of statements. I appreciate
    that DOGE has already allowed the BPA to rehire some of those
    probationary employees, but I want to ask you, do you believe
    BPA's workforce should be exempt from the current hiring freeze
    and future forced reductions?
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you, Senator, for your question.
        I obviously have not been confirmed and don't know--I have
    read similar reports and I don't think I saw that one that you
    submitted for the record, but should I be confirmed, I look
    forward to getting up to speed, prioritizing it. I worked in
    the last Trump Administration, the first one, and understand
    the important role that BPA and the Power Marketing
    Administrations_other PMAs_have in delivering affordable,
    reliable energy from our hydroelectric resources, and I am
    committed to working with you and your office and this
    Committee to do that, should I be confirmed.
        Senator Cantwell. Do you commit to articulate BPA's safety
    and reliability role when considering any RIF proposals?
        Mr. Griffith. Senator, again, I don't know exactly what is
    happening in the Department, or any discussions, but I will
    prioritize working with the Secretary, Deputy Secretary, and
    the rest of the team on this issue, if confirmed, to----
        Senator Cantwell. I am just asking you whether you will
    erase safety and reliability roles. That is a pretty easy----
        Mr. Griffith. Oh, safety and reliability are obviously very
    important to the grid at BPA and all of the utilities and PMAs,
    and I think we will continue to prioritize the reliability, the
    security, and the resilience of our grid, including at the
    PMAs.
        Senator Cantwell. Do you commit to oppose any proposal to
    auction off PMA assets, including those owned by BPA?
        Mr. Griffith. Sorry, could you repeat the question?
        Senator Cantwell. Yes.
        Do you commit to oppose any proposals to auction off PMA
    assets, including those owned by BPA?
        Mr. Griffith. Senator, I think BPA is a very important
    piece of the Department and plays an important role. I am not
    aware of any discussions or conversations about selling it off,
    but I think we--so, I really can't commit.
        Senator Cantwell. I think if Senator Risch were here, he
    would be backing me up at this moment, and he'd be encouraging
    you to say that you don't believe in selling off BPA, but----
        Mr. Griffith. I don't know what--if there is--not being
    confirmed, I don't know any conversations that are happening in
    the building. I wouldn't see--it's not something that I would
    be a proponent of.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
        I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. We
    sometimes have a chance for a second round. We don't have that
    today. We have votes being called. So any additional questions
    will be submitted in writing for the record.
        Questions for the record for the hearing are due by 6:00
    p.m. today. The record of the hearing will remain open for
    statements until 6:00 p.m. on Thursday, April 17.
        The meeting is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:12 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                          APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

                                  ----------

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                     [all]