[Senate Hearing 119-46]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                                                         S. Hrg. 119-46

                          PENDING LEGISLATION

=======================================================================


                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                                   on

                                 S. 362
                                 S. 544
                                 S. 596
                                 S. 714
                                 S. 789
                                 S. 859
                               __________

                             MARCH 12, 2025
                               __________



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               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

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                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        MIKE LEE, Utah, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
STEVE DAINES, Montana                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
TOM COTTON, Arkansas                 MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
DAVID McCORMICK, Pennsylvania        ANGUS S. KING, Jr., Maine
JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOHN W. HICKENLOOPER, Colorado
CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        ALEX PADILLA, California
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska               RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota

                  Wendy Baig, Majority Staff Director
            Patrick J. McCormick III, Majority Chief Counsel
                Jeanne Kuehl, Professional Staff Member
                 Jasmine Hunt, Minority Staff Director
                 Sam E. Fowler, Minority Chief Counsel
            Maya Hermann, Natural Resources Policy Director 

































            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Lee, Hon. Mike, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Utah............     1
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from New 
  Mexico.........................................................     3

                               WITNESSES

Haddock, Rich, Senior Advisor, Barrick Gold Corporation..........     5
Somers, Brian, President, Utah Mining Association................   106
Wood, Chris, President and CEO, Trout Unlimited..................   111

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

American Exploration and Mining Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   141
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   172
Baratta, Tom:
    Letter for the Record........................................   174
Bull Mountain Land Alliance and Northern Plains Resource Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   175
Citizens for Responsible Energy Solutions:
    Letter for the Record on S. 714..............................   153
    Letter for the Record on S. 544..............................   154
Haddock, Rich:
    Opening Statement............................................     5
    Written Testimony with attached supplemental material........     7
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   157
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
Lee, Hon. Mike:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
National Mining Association:
    Letter for the Record on S. 714..............................   138
    Letter for the Record on S. 544..............................   139
Outdoor Alliance:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   180
Pfister, Ellen:
    Letter for the Record........................................   186
Somers, Brian:
    Opening Statement............................................   106
    Written Testimony............................................   108
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   168
Wood, Chris:
    Opening Statement............................................   111
    Written Testimony............................................   113
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................   171

----------
The text for each of the bills addressed in this hearing can be found 
on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/hearings/
2025/3/full-committee-hearing-to-receive-testimony-on-pending-bills

 
                          PENDING LEGISLATION

                              ----------                              

                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 12, 2025

                                       U.S. Senate,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

    The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
    Welcome to the Committee's first legislative hearing of the 
119th Congress. Today, we will receive testimony on six bills 
listed in the notice for today's hearing. All of these bills 
address domestic mining and mineral processing, related 
reporting, and public information. Four of these measures have 
bipartisan co-sponsors, and a fifth has received some 
bipartisan support. Having served on this Committee since 2011, 
I am keenly aware that the United States has fallen behind 
China and other nations when it comes to mining and mineral 
processing. Today's hearing represents a first step in 
developing a legislative record on measures to address this 
very problem.
    Of course, not all of us will support each measure on which 
the Committee will hear testimony today. I don't support all of 
the bills listed on the notice for today's hearing. For 
example, although I agree that America needs to process more 
non-fuel minerals here at home, and I appreciate that Senator 
Hickenlooper's bill, S. 596, has Republican co-sponsors, I have 
strong reservations about the pilot program that this 
legislation would establish.
    Also, I included Senator Lujan's bill, S. 859, in today's 
hearing as a courtesy. Senators Henrich, Wyden, and Padilla are 
co-sponsors, along with a number of Democratic colleagues.
    Today's hearing is reflective of my intent to sharpen the 
Committee's focus on legislation without diminishing our other 
responsibilities to consider presidential nominations or to 
conduct oversight within our Committee's jurisdiction. We will 
begin by moving pending nominations through the Committee as 
soon as we have the requisite paperwork on these additional 
nominations.
    I want to thank Ranking Member Heinrich and all the members 
of the Committee for helping identify the six bills that we 
will receive testimony on this morning. After I conclude my 
opening statement, we will hear from Senator Heinrich for his 
opening statement, and thereafter, I will introduce our 
distinguished panel of witnesses. We will hear the witness 
testimony, and then move to a round of questions from members. 
Members will have five minutes for their questions and we will 
alternate between senators on one side of the dais and then the 
other.
    If you are here today, it's because you understand that 
America's economic strength and national security hinge 
ultimately on securing a reliable supply of key materials. 
Currently, a majority of the world's mineral extraction and 
refinement are controlled by adversarial countries. We have 
seen what happens when we rely on these nations for essential 
resources--supply chain disruptions, economic vulnerabilities, 
and ultimately, tragically, national security risks. It's time 
to fix that. The resources are here--right here in the United 
States, and we just need the right policies in order for us to 
be able to unleash them. My home State of Utah, for example, 
has 40 of the 50 minerals deemed essential by the U.S. 
Geological Survey. Yet, bureaucratic delays and inconsistent 
regulations create often insurmountable barriers to domestic 
production.
    A 2024 S&P global survey found that U.S.-based mineral 
projects take an average--an average--of 29 years to move from 
discovery to production. That is the second longest timeline in 
the world. To put that in perspective, if a mine were needed 
for defense applications during World War I, using today's 
permitting timelines, it wouldn't be operational until after 
World War II had come to an end. That is unacceptable. It's one 
of the reasons why I have introduced the Critical Mineral 
Consistency Act with my colleague from Arizona, Senator Mark 
Kelly. Right now, the Department of Energy and the Department 
of the Interior have separate, parallel, inconsistent lists of 
what counts as critical and what does not. That does not make 
any sense.
    In 2023, the Energy Department added copper to its list of 
critical materials, recognizing the metal as integral in energy 
technologies, but also at risk for supply disruptions by 2035. 
But the U.S. Geological Survey left copper off its own list, 
even though it is vital for power grids, wind turbines, and 
electric vehicles. My bill would require these lists to match. 
These designations send a powerful message to investors. The 
U.S. Government is backing these supply chains on national 
security grounds. If we want private investment in domestic 
production, we need clarity and we need consistency. That is 
exactly why we need to pass Senators Cortez Masto and Risch's 
Mining Regulatory Clarity Act to enable mining on federal land.
    But streamlining regulations is only part of the equation. 
This doesn't get to the whole thing we need to get to, 
streamlining regulations. We need to go beyond that, and to 
truly strengthen our supply chains we must also reject policies 
that create additional burdens on domestic production. Imposing 
additional federal royalties would only add cost and 
uncertainty, potentially shutting down existing projects, and 
driving investment overseas--overseas specifically to nations 
with far worse, far inferior environmental and humanitarian 
standards than what we have here. It would create redundant 
fees, as domestic mining projects are already subject to state 
and local royalties and taxes. Simply put, these proposals 
would make our mineral supply chains less competitive and it 
would make them more vulnerable, impacting everything from 
economic growth to national security. We cannot afford to drag 
our feet any longer. China is racing ahead in mineral 
processing and refining. We need to move faster, smarter, and 
more strategically. The United States has the resources, the 
talent, and the technology. We just need the right policies to 
lead this charge. That starts here with hearings like this one 
that we are having today, and with legislation like what we 
will be discussing at this hearing.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure that 
we have the ability to unlock our full potential and secure 
America's mineral future. Thank you.
    I now recognize Senator Heinrich for his opening statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, 
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    I am glad that we are holding this hearing today on a set 
of issues that are critically important to people and 
communities across the country, but particularly in the West. 
However, before turning to the topic of today's hearing, I 
think it's impossible to talk about any natural resource issue 
today without talking about the incredible damage being done to 
the workforce that manages those lands and resources for the 
American people.
    The illegal firings of probationary staff, rumored to be 
just the beginning of staffing reductions, is already reducing 
access to public lands, with locked gates and closed visitor 
centers at parks across the country. What's more, as we are 
considering legislation intended to increase mineral production 
on public lands, this Administration is cutting staff at land 
agencies that process those same permits. With a voluntary 
resignation offer that encouraged some of the most experienced, 
highest-performing staff at these agencies to leave public 
service, along with illegal firings of staff who were recently 
promoted because of their high performance, this Administration 
is crippling the very public land agencies that evaluate plans 
for new mines. Anyone who is hoping for ``government 
efficiency'' out of this Administration can see that what we 
are actually getting is government dysfunction.
    Now, to today's hearing, in particular. Modern technologies 
involve a lot of raw materials, and as our scientists and 
engineers find new and cheaper ways to generate and store 
energy, the types and quantities of minerals used in energy 
technologies will only continue to grow. Responsible domestic 
mining and processing can be part of the solution, but we can't 
get there with outdated laws that don't reflect the nation's 
needs and priorities today. The law that governs metal mining 
on most public lands in the West was written in 1872--more than 
150 years ago. Yellowstone had been a national park for barely 
two months when the mining law was signed, and New Mexico would 
still be a territory for another 40 years. We have actually 
learned quite a bit since 1872--how to manage public land for 
public benefit, how to conserve habitat for sustainable fish 
and wildlife populations, how to protect our drinking and 
irrigation water from heavy metals pollution, and how to ensure 
a fair return for the commercial development of resources that, 
after all, belong to the American people. And yet, our hardrock 
mining law remains stuck in the 19th century, right when we 
need to build the energy infrastructure of the 21st century. 
Updating the 1872 Mining Law could bring public land mining 
into the 21st century and provide the minerals that we need for 
the energy technologies of today.
    But we are here today to talk about more than just mining, 
because mining alone won't solve our supply chain dependence on 
adversaries unless we also invest in the entire life cycle of 
minerals. This includes increasing our domestic mineral 
processing capacity, continuing the onshoring of manufacturing 
through the CHIPS and Science Act, and investing in recycling 
technologies so that we can reuse the minerals that we already 
have. The fact that we export copper and rare earth materials, 
as well as things like batteries, to China in the form of 
electronic waste is one of the more infuriating realities of 
our current system. We should be capturing and reusing the 
minerals present within our borders in devices, vehicles, 
batteries, and machinery, rather than paying to ship them 
overseas.
    I firmly believe we can find ways to secure the minerals we 
need for new energy technologies while also protecting our 
water, air, and public lands. I believe it's possible to open 
new mines while giving local communities a say in whether a 
particular location on public land is an appropriate place for 
a new mine, just like we do for oil and gas and other uses. And 
I am confident that we can find a way to finally fund the 
cleanup of legacy mine pollution that contaminates streams and 
rivers across the West. I hope that today's hearing will be a 
step toward all of those goals.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
    Now, I will be pleased to introduce each of our witnesses.
    It is my pleasure, first, to introduce and welcome Brian 
Somers, the President of the Utah Mining Association. Mr. 
Somers joined the Association as its President back in 2019. He 
previously led the Utah Science, Technology, and Research 
Initiative as its Managing Director. Earlier in his career, Mr. 
Somers served in leadership and senior staff positions in the 
Utah state government and also in private industry.
    Our next witness is Mr. Rich Haddock. Mr. Haddock is an 
attorney who has worked in the mining industry for more than 30 
years. He spent the last 25 years of that time at Barrick Gold 
Corporation in both legal and operational roles and retired as 
general counsel in 2022. Mr. Haddock is currently a senior 
advisor to Barrick. He is also a member of the Board of the 
Directors of Perpetua Resources Corporation. I am pleased to 
relate that Mr. Haddock holds a degree in geology from Brigham 
Young University and a law degree from the University of Utah 
School of Law.
    Finally, we will hear from Mr. Chris Wood, the President 
and CEO of Trout Unlimited since 2001. Before joining Trout 
Unlimited, Mr. Wood served as the Senior Policy and 
Communications Advisor to the Chief of the U.S. Forest Service, 
capping a career in government. He is the author and co-author 
of numerous papers and articles and three books.
    Okay, so we will now hear from each of the witnesses. Mr. 
Haddock, we will start with you, then move to Mr. Somers, and 
then Mr. Wood.

          STATEMENT OF RICH HADDOCK, SENIOR ADVISOR, 
                  BARRICK GOLD CORPORATION

    Mr. Haddock. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, Senator 
Cortez Masto, and members of the Committee, thank you for 
inviting me to testify today. I believe it is critical to 
competitiveness and national security for the United States to 
develop a secure mineral supply chain. One only needs to look 
at China's export ban of certain strategic minerals to 
understand this. I believe we can do much of what is necessary 
here at home with a domestic mining industry.
    Over the last 40 years, production of many critical 
minerals has become concentrated in just a few mines in 
unfriendly jurisdictions where global demands are met by a race 
to the bottom--a price of human rights standards, of labor 
standards, and of environmental standards. Often, critical 
minerals are produced only as byproducts or are found in very 
small quantities along with gold, copper, lead, zinc, iron, and 
other economically viable minerals. The key to domestic 
production of as many of these minerals as possible is a 
healthy ecosystem for the U.S. mining industry, policy, 
expertise, and investment. The first step in creating a healthy 
mining ecosystem is before you today as S. 544, the Mining 
Regulatory Clarity Act. This is a bipartisan bill. I testified 
in support of it at the request of chairs from both parties. 
This bill addresses the confusion, delay, and continuing 
litigation created by the Ninth Circuit Rosemont decision, 
which upended decades of mining law interpretation and agency 
practice. Rosemont, if not addressed, would make it nearly 
impossible to site mine support facilities like mills, shafts, 
crushers, tailings facilities, and roads. In BLM regulatory 
parlance, these are called ancillary facilities, but I think 
``necessary'' is really a better adjective because you can't 
have a mine without one, and I am grateful the Committee 
recognizes that.
    The version of the MRCA before you today responds to 
criticisms of the original bill, S. 1281, introduced by Senator 
Cortez Masto in the 118th Congress. Initially, industry and 
environmental groups worked together to develop a detailed 
savings clause to defuse the criticism. When it persisted under 
Senator Cortez Masto's leadership, Committee staff worked with 
industry representatives and environmental group 
representatives to produce this version of the bill. It is the 
same language this Committee advanced last fall as part of the 
Energy Permitting Reform Act of 2024.
    The MRCA is narrowly tailored. Over the last 50 years, less 
than one-third of one percent of the land in Nevada has been 
included in a plan of operations. This, the state with the most 
mining and 85 percent federal land. Only a portion of the 
ground inside a plan of operations is disturbed and only a part 
of that disturbed ground contains ancillary facilities. These 
subsection (c) mill sites created by the bill can only be 
located inside a proposed plan of operation, which only happens 
when you have a real mine. Real mines are few and far between, 
and honestly, I wish we had a few more, and perhaps our 
critical mineral concerns might not be as acute as they are 
today.
    So with that, I applaud that the Congress recognizes the 
strategic importance of minerals as represented by the three 
critical mineral bills before the Committee. I thank the 
sponsors for their work on these bills. The Chairman's Critical 
Mineral Consistency Act is common sense--one list, that is 
dynamic, to guide policy.
    I applaud the goals of the Critical Minerals Future Act, S. 
596, because it recognizes there are market forces that inhibit 
the domestic production of these minerals and proposes ways to 
begin to address those forces. I thank Senator Hickenlooper and 
his staff for their extensive outreach to industry and effort 
on the bill. I also appreciate that S. 789 recognizes that the 
U.S. needs to be as resource-savvy as our global competitors. 
Importantly, I think these bills underscore the need to focus 
on and improve our knowledge of potential domestic resources 
for these minerals, which I believe should be our long-term 
primary goal.
    And finally, while not today's topics, I would be remiss if 
I didn't, number one, thank the Committee on Environment and 
Public Works for recognizing that permitting and associated 
judicial review needs to be improved, and for your ongoing work 
on these issues. And number two, acknowledge, thank, and 
congratulate Senator Heinrich for his tireless effort on the 
Good Samaritan bill last year, which was a great step in the 
right direction, and we were delighted to see signed into law.
    Thank you, and I look forward to any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Haddock follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Haddock.
    We will hear from Mr. Somers next.

             STATEMENT OF BRIAN SOMERS, PRESIDENT, 
                    UTAH MINING ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Somers. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and 
other members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation to 
testify.
    Mining is a critical industry in Utah, contributing $7.7 
billion to the state's GDP, supporting nearly 57,000 direct and 
indirect jobs, and powering Utah's broader economy by producing 
the coal which provides 62 percent of Utah's low-priced 
electricity. Mining jobs in Utah are family- and community-
sustaining jobs, with mining salaries averaging 46 percent more 
than the average Utah wage. The recent actions of China to ban 
or restrict the export of critical minerals or mineral 
processing technologies, which they control, should highlight 
the need to strengthen our domestic mining and mineral 
processing capabilities and reshore critical mineral supply 
chains. Of the ten minerals or mineral groups currently subject 
to Chinese export bans or restrictions--rare earth elements, 
antimony, germanium, gallium, graphite, tungsten, tellurium, 
bismuth, molybdenum, and indium--Utah has the capacity to 
produce nine. Utah is currently producing the rare earth 
elements tellurium and molybdenum. Utah has proven and very 
rare primary resources of germanium, gallium, and indium and 
significant historical production of antimony, tungsten, and 
bismuth.
    As the Chairman mentioned, Utah hosts 40 of the 50 critical 
minerals on the Department of the Interior's current critical 
minerals list--40 of the 50 critical minerals in just one 
state, admittedly one with an unusually rich and diverse 
mineral endowment. Add occurrences of critical minerals in 
other states, and there is little reason the U.S. should be as 
dependent as it is on foreign critical mineral supply chains, 
again, with our geopolitical adversary, China, as the dominant 
global producer. Our current situation is the result of a lack 
of investment in and support of our domestic mining and mineral 
processing industries as well as outright market manipulation 
by China and other foreign mineral producers. The U.S. mining 
industry is committed to responsibly developing our mineral 
resources, and it is appropriate that the U.S. has stringent 
labor, safety, financial, and environmental regulations. 
However, these regulations must also be rational, stable, 
economically feasible, and not misaligned with the regulatory 
environments of other free and developed nations with major 
mining industries--nations like Canada and Australia.
    The Chairman also mentioned the report from S&P Global that 
found that the U.S. has the second longest timeline in the 
world for developing a new mine--29 years--the worst record of 
any country in the world, except for Zambia. That report 
states, ``The development of a mine in the U.S. is not only 
long and costly, it is unusually uncertain. While developing a 
mine in Canada or Australia can also take a long time . . . 
those mines do reliably enter production. In the U.S., even if 
mines receive all required permits, they are subject to higher 
litigation risk. Uncertainty and litigation risk may explain 
why exploration budgets committed by investors to Canada and 
Australia over the last 15 years have been 81 percent and 57 
percent higher than to the U.S.''
    If the U.S. is to have any chance of becoming self-
sufficient in supplying its own critical mineral needs, 
Congress and the Federal Government must commit to real 
permitting reform, litigation reform, ending federal land and 
mineral withdrawals, renewing the diminishment of state primacy 
for the enforcement of federal labor and environmental laws, 
reversing the decline of mining engineering programs at U.S. 
universities, providing grants for research and to do mineral 
extraction and processing technologies, and providing incentive 
to attract more mineral exploration and other mining investment 
to the U.S. A positive first step is the recent introduction of 
the Critical Mineral Consistency Act of 2025 by Chairman Lee 
and Senator Kelly. This act will end the misalignment between 
the Department of the Interior's critical minerals list and the 
Department of Energy's critical materials list.
    If the act is passed, it will have a positive effect on 
Utah, as we are a major copper producing state. In fact, Utah 
is home to one of the largest and most productive copper mines 
in the world, the Rio Tinto Kennecott Bingham Canyon Mine. Rio 
Tinto Kennecott is not only a world-class copper operation that 
has one of only two working copper smelters in the U.S., it is 
also Utah's largest producer of critical minerals, currently 
producing tellurium, platinum, and palladium, and with the 
potential to produce rare earth elements, indium, germanium, 
gallium, and many other critical minerals through secondary 
recovery. The example of Rio Tinto Kennecott highlights the 
fact that many critical minerals are co-mingled with base 
metals, precious metals, and other mineral commodities, and why 
we must not only support and invest in new mines, but also 
expand production in secondary recovery at existing mines and 
mineral processing facilities.
    I know the Utah success story on this front is the Energy 
Fuels White Mesa Mill in Blanding, Utah. The White Mesa Mill is 
the last functioning conventional uranium mill in the U.S., and 
which is now also processing monazite, a mineral byproduct 
which contains uranium, but also high concentrations of rare 
earth elements. Using an existing and already-permitted 
facility--and a high dose of rural Utah ingenuity--the White 
Mesa Mill has created the most advanced rare earth element 
processing operation outside of China, a great step toward 
ending that nation's stranglehold on the rare earth supply 
chain.
    Again, I appreciate the opportunity to highlight some of 
Utah's success stories and to discuss how the Federal 
Government can better support state efforts to lead on the 
critical minerals front. I look forward to any questions from 
the Committee.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Somers follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thanks, Mr. Somers.
    Mr. Wood, you are next.

                    STATEMENT OF CHRIS WOOD, 
               PRESIDENT AND CEO, TROUT UNLIMITED

    Mr. Wood. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Heinrich, and other 
Committee members, thank you very much for inviting me to 
testify today.
    Trout Unlimited has been involved in mining issues for a 
long time, from protecting special places, such as Bristol Bay 
in Alaska, to working with the mining industry and other 
partners to clean up legacy pollution from abandoned mines. 
Domestic mineral production helped to build our nation. It won 
two world wars. It fueled westward expansion and provides the 
raw materials for modern society. At the same time, historic 
mining left hundreds of thousands of abandoned mines that dot 
the landscape, leeching their toxic brew of lead, zinc, 
cadmium, arsenic, and other pollutants into our rivers and 
streams. To be certain, there is no constituency for acid mine 
waste and orange rivers. There is, however, a bipartisan 
commitment to clean up abandoned mines, to encourage 
responsible mining, and to propel the needs of a clean energy 
future while making our rivers and streams cleaner and our 
communities healthier. Working together, we have an opportunity 
to craft a path forward that is collaborative, innovative, and 
responsible.
    In 1872, the General Mining Law helped to spur settlement 
of the West. Today, it is an anachronism in need of 
modernization. The EPA estimates that 40 percent of western 
headwater streams are negatively affected by abandoned hardrock 
mines. These are, by and large, not contemporary mines. They 
were built many decades or even a century ago. An analysis 
conducted by Trout Unlimited scientists found that 
approximately 110,000 miles of streams, enough to encircle the 
earth four times, are listed as impaired, and abandoned mines 
are a major source of these impairments. Thanks last year to 
the leadership of Senator Heinrich, Senator Risch, and many 
other members of this Committee, Congress passed the Good 
Samaritan Remediation of Abandoned Hardrock Mines Act of 2024. 
The new law is proof that the mining industry and conservation 
interests can find common ground and pass common-sense mining 
legislation.
    Tens of thousands of abandoned mines negatively affect our 
nation's waters. The reality is that this is a completely 
solvable problem. Just about every commodity produced from our 
public lands has an associated royalty or fee that helps to 
address remediation from legacy development. I appreciate that 
mining companies must make years and often millions of dollars 
in investments before they can mine, but there should be a 
common-sense royalty once new mines are up and running to help 
pay for the cleanup of legacy mines. The coal industry alone 
has paid more than $12 billion in royalties since 1977 to help 
clean up abandoned coal mines across Appalachia and parts of 
the West. If we can do it with coal, we can do it with hardrock 
minerals, especially given the immense need.
    Finally, professional land managers should be able to deny 
a mine if it is proposed in a community drinking water supply, 
a sacred site, or an exceptional fish and wildlife habitat. But 
that denial should happen early in the process, before a mining 
company has invested tens of millions of dollars in exploration 
or development. Between the industry's desire for certainty, 
the confusion caused by the Rosemont decision, the obvious need 
for a royalty, and the equally obvious need for some measure of 
discretion as to where mining can and should occur, there is an 
agreement to be had. We have fought and bickered and disagreed 
over mining on public lands for over 100 years. Certainly, 
there is a common-sense compromise within our reach that would 
provide sufficient, dedicated funding for abandoned mine 
cleanups, allow that certain landscapes are inappropriate for 
mining, and at the same time, address the legal and regulatory 
certainty needed for investment by the mining industry. You 
have Trout Unlimited's commitment to continue working in good 
faith to strike that balance.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Wood follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]  
    
    
    The Chairman. Thanks so much for your opening testimony. We 
will now proceed to questions. We will be alternating between 
Republicans and Democrats in five-minute rounds.
    Mr. Somers, I would like to start with you.
    Last month, I introduced a bill called the Critical Mineral 
Consistency Act, and I did this in order to try to align the 
Department of the Interior's critical minerals list with the 
Department of Energy's critical materials list. Can you explain 
for us, Mr. Somers, why both critical minerals and critical 
materials are essential to the United States, particularly with 
regard to our economic, energy, and national security?
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I applaud you 
for introducing this particular piece of legislation because 
the disparities between the lists that the Federal Government 
has maintained, especially between the DOI list and the DOE 
list, have been perplexing to the mining industry for a number 
of years now, and in many cases, again, when you are talking 
about critical minerals specifically, a lot of these critical 
minerals, as I mentioned in my testimony, are co-located with 
base metals and precious metals and other things that may not 
appear on either of these lists. But in particular, in the case 
of Utah, again, our most productive copper mine is also our 
most productive critical mineral mine. And so, making sure that 
you have equal consideration from the Federal Government for 
both the critical minerals and minerals like copper is really 
essential.
    The other issue that comes to the fore here is that, you 
know, regardless of what national defense technology or energy 
transmission technology you are talking about, I mean, they are 
going to rely both on things like copper, and on some of the 
more boutique minerals, you know, that are on the critical 
minerals list. And so, you know, while you have a large number 
of rare earths, for example, that will go into an F-35, which 
we have a lot of in Utah, you also need a lot of copper to make 
an F-35. You also need vanadium for the alloys that go into 
those airframes. And so, again, having some consistency from 
the federal perspective when it comes to any potential fast-
track permitting or grants and research and other things is 
essential in order for us----
    The Chairman. Why does it matter for us to try to produce 
those in the United States rather than importing them?
    Mr. Somers. Right, absolutely. I mean, again, as you have 
seen from the recent actions of China, I mean, if you have 
something like antimony, for example, that is banned, that 
prevents us from manufacturing munitions in the United States 
because those are critical to go into, again, munitions, the 
national defense systems, and other things. And so, it does 
become a national security risk if we are relying on foreign 
producers and especially adversarial foreign producers for 
those minerals.
    The Chairman. Makes sense.
    Mr. Haddock, in your testimony, you noted that Nevada, 
where Barrick operates, is a state with a lot of federal land, 
and Utah faces, of course, a similar challenge with 67 percent 
of our land being owned by the Federal Government. When it 
comes to mineral development, what additional hurdles do 
companies face when trying to develop these things when they 
are operating on federal land as compared to either state land 
or private land?
    Mr. Haddock. The additional hurdle is permitting--that is, 
the timeline for permitting. The permitting timelines on state 
or private land would be much quicker, and then, of course, the 
litigation risk on the tail-end, where almost every project is 
litigated. It makes it very difficult to spend a lot of money, 
like for some projects you would spend half a billion dollars 
before you get to the point of permitting it. That's a lot of 
money to sit there for a long time.
    The Chairman. But when you are going in to operate on 
either state land or private land, there is still permitting 
required. There is still a potential litigation risk. Tell me 
how that risk and the corresponding delays compare between the 
two.
    Mr. Haddock. There is kind of a broader range of litigation 
risk because of, number one, NEPA. The federal agencies that 
administer the public lands do an absolutely great job of 
bringing together mountains of data, analyzing all the range of 
issues that that they have to consider under the various laws. 
But what tends to happen in those cases is that the courts tend 
to flyspeck the EISs and nitpick until they find one issue that 
they don't think has been adequately addressed and then you are 
back to supplemental EIS.
    The Chairman. Okay, so does that suggest that the 
additional time consumed in the federal process doesn't 
necessarily produce a cleaner, safer outcome-- it's more 
flyspecking and time consuming, but not necessarily with a 
corresponding benefit to environmental quality? And if this is 
the case, how does this impact--how does that situation, 
compounded by recent court decisions, how does that impact 
investment in project development?
    Mr. Haddock. Well, it makes it harder to invest, but you 
are absolutely right. NEPA was enacted before many of the 
detailed federal environmental laws that have performance 
standards. And what commonly happens is, whether you are 
working on state land or private land or federal land, you have 
to comply with all those laws. What typically happens to an EIS 
process is, additional mitigation measures are imposed, 
additional performance standards are imposed, and then they are 
litigated over. So that's kind of the additional burden from 
that.
    The Chairman. Thank you. My time is expired.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Wood, according to the GAO, there are at least 140,000 
abandoned hardrock mine features just on federal land--and GAO 
actually points out itself that that information, where those 
sites are, is so lacking that the true number may actually be 
closer to half a million features on public land alone. That 
leads into the dynamic that you described of something like 40 
percent of headwater streams being impaired--places that should 
run clear and be home to trout--running orange and acidic, 
which certainly impacts both irrigation and municipal water 
supplies. Walk us through what the primary impediments are to 
being able to clean up those sites and how much of it is purely 
a resource constraint.
    Mr. Wood. Well, thanks to your good work, sir, on the Good 
Samaritan Remediation of Abandoned Hardrock Mines Act, one of 
the primary problems--liability issues--is at least being 
addressed in a pilot program over the next seven years. But the 
single largest and most fundamental challenge that we face on 
cleaning up abandoned mines is that there is no dedicated 
funding source for it. So TU has managed to do about 50 
abandoned mine cleanups around the country. And the way we are 
able to do that, in spite of the liability, is we get federal 
agencies to agree to hold the liability for us, and it's only 
on public land that we can do that.
    But we have to cobble--we have to beg, borrow, and steal to 
get that money. It's membership dollars. The mining industry, 
frankly, has been generous in supporting a lot of abandoned 
mine cleanups--foundations, private citizens. Unlike with coal, 
unlike with oil, unlike with gas, there is no dedicated funding 
source that we can rely on.
    Senator Heinrich. Mr. Haddock, is it reasonable to expect 
mining companies to make some contribution toward that effort?
    Mr. Haddock. Senator, let me answer that one this way: we 
have said over the years that we would support a reasonable net 
royalty. Now, there are, as you have heard me say before, there 
are issues about that, including that we should look at total 
government take. And when you look at total government take, in 
the form of taxes and royalties to state and local governments, 
that the amount that you pay to operate in Nevada is really 
commensurate with what we would pay to operate in Australia or 
Canada. That said, we support a reasonable net royalty. Net 
royalty is preferable because in the hardrock mineral context, 
the ore bodies are extremely complex and different, and net 
represents--net actually recognizes the difference between ore 
bodies. You don't have to go about determining what kind of 
royalty rate for which ore body.
    The other thing I would note is the way--we have to 
remember the state and local taxes, because the way the mining 
law was set up to begin with was, it really left taxation and 
royalties to state governments. It is interesting because when 
they pulled oil and gas out of the mining law in 1920, they 
made the royalty a federal royalty, but then the Federal 
Government collects it and then distributes it back to the 
states. And so, with that, I would say that we support it. We 
would support actually a reasonable net royalty that is 
earmarked first for abandoned mine land reclamation.
    Senator Heinrich. Good. That's very helpful. So it sounds 
like the main issues here are creating some sort of regulatory 
certainty and permitting certainty so that the capital does not 
have to be ridiculously patient. There is the issue of actually 
being able to have some sort of revenue source that is 
reasonable to be able to clean up the existing mine lands 
problem, and then the issue that Mr. Wood brought up, of some 
level of discretion within the public land management agencies 
so that you don't get into the sort of intractable arguments 
that oftentimes lead to litigation.
    Do you foresee, Mr. Haddock, a potential sort of global 
solution here where you could have a lot more certainty at the 
front end, and then come up with a reasonable number that does 
take into account those variations and then be able to have a 
more predictable way to clean up all of the legacy issues?
    Mr. Haddock. I think all of those things can happen without 
wholesale revision of the mining law. Those are discrete issues 
that I think can be addressed discretely. My view on certainty 
up front is, that's what the BLM's land resource planning 
process is about, and I think that's where the certainty needs 
to come. That's where the resources that need to be protected 
need to be identified because once you start exploring, you 
need to be able to continue.
    Senator Heinrich. So you basically need a map of like where 
this is going to be embraced and it's permissive, and where the 
places where maybe there is enough of a conflict that it's not 
appropriate.
    Mr. Haddock. And that process exists and is in place today 
in the BLM districts.
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Chairman, thank you.
    I want to talk about the Bull Mountains coal mine. This is 
a mine near Roundup, Montana. It plays a crucial role in 
Montana's energy economy. The mine employs 250 people. Now, 
these are high-paying jobs with good benefits. It generates 
over $90 million a year in state, local, and federal taxes and 
revenues. It is the lifeblood of Musselshell County. 
Unfortunately, these jobs are now at risk and the life of the 
mine and the community it serves are in limbo. It's because of 
the checkerboard federal ownership in Montana, as well as this 
longwall mining process, that this mine is running out of 
permitted coal and might be forced to close. And this is why I 
introduced Senate bill 362. It's a targeted, short-term fix 
that allows the mining of very specific federal minerals to 
ensure that we have enough time to find a longer-term solution 
for the mine. This bill simply allows the mine to continue 
mining the same materials it has for decades under the same 
permit it has had for years.
    Last Congress, this Committee passed this identical bill 
with a bipartisan vote. I want to thank my colleagues on this 
Committee for working with me to make that happen, and I hope 
we can again pass this short-term fix so these workers in 
Montana can continue to provide for their families. Mining jobs 
saw a major hit in Montana over the last couple of years. The 
Bull Mountains Mine recently had to lay off dozens of 
hardworking Montanans because they have run out of permitted 
coal. And recently, the Stillwater Mine, the United States only 
platinum and palladium mine, which is used in catalytic 
converters to keep our air clean, it recently laid off 700 
Montanans. We can't afford the loss of any more jobs for these 
Montana miners. That's why we must pass this bill and get it on 
the President's desk.
    Mr. Somers, as the President of the Utah Mining 
Association, you understand how vital the mining industry is to 
building jobs, local communities, national security, and tax 
revenues. In Montana, coal-fired plants provide the largest 
share of Montana's electricity generation, accounting for 45 
percent of Montana's in-state generation. The coal industry not 
only supplies Americans with a low-cost, reliable, and secure 
source of energy--it's called baseload power--but it also 
generates millions of dollars of federal, state, and local 
revenue per year, and creates hundreds of very good-paying jobs 
in Montana.
    Mr. Somers, can you speak to the importance of supporting 
our coal jobs and ensuring that coal mines, like the Bull 
Mountains Mine in Montana, continue to provide revenue for our 
states as well as our counties?
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely, thank you, Senator.
    Utah is very similar to Montana with regard to its coal 
industry. We also deal with checkerboard ownership. We deal 
with, you know, underground mines, and the planning that has to 
go into that. And like Montana, the vast majority of our 
electricity is provided by coal-fired generation. I mentioned 
in my testimony that, you know, mining jobs, on average in 
Utah, pay about 46 percent more than the Utah average wage, but 
when you go into our coal-producing counties, the number can go 
over 100 percent. So in many of our coal-producing counties, 
especially in central Utah, mining companies--coal mining 
companies--are by far the largest private employer, and provide 
very essential revenue, and not just for the direct mining 
jobs, but for all of the service jobs that go into those 
particular industries. And Utah in particular, like Montana, 
has made a very concerted effort to ensure that our coal mines 
stay healthy, and also that our coal-fired generation plants 
are preserved and we are able to provide that essential 
baseload power so that we can continue to have the type of 
economic growth that we have become used to in Utah over the 
last number of years.
    Senator Daines. You know, it's fascinating when you have 
conversations with technology leaders today. You are chatting 
with--whether it's Google or AWS or Microsoft and others--
before you start talking about the technology, perhaps AI, the 
first conversation right now is the shortage of baseload power. 
It is the constraint for innovation here for our country long-
term, and grateful that we have baseload power in these coal-
fired plants.
    Chairman Lee, I want to close by saying thanks for holding 
this hearing. I can't stress enough the importance of passing 
this bill, Senate bill 362. It has been passed before in this 
Committee, ensuring that the Roundup and the Musselshell 
community isn't left behind because of federal inaction. The 
Federal Government has been slow-rolling this. This is a short-
term fix to allow the process to finally become completed for a 
long-term solution. This will allow enough time for the Trump 
Administration to finalize a new permit, for Congress to pass 
legislation like my Crow Revenue Act, to bring long-term 
economic certainty for the workers, Musselshell County, as well 
as the Crow Reservation and the Crow Nation.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Daines.
    We will turn next to Senator King.
    Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    This discussion reminds me of a little-known biblical 
provision where God came to Moses and said, ``I have good news 
and bad news.'' Moses said, ``What's the good news?'' God said, 
``I am going to allow you to part the waters of the Red Sea. My 
people will escape. The waters will then come back and engulf 
Pharaoh's army.'' Moses said, ``God, that's wonderful. What's 
the bad news?'' God said, ``You prepare the environmental 
impact statement.''
    [Laughter.]
    Senator King. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator King. Mr. Haddock, why does the permitting take so 
long? And I used to work on permitting of energy projects. We 
thought four or five years was a long time. Why does it take 29 
years? What are the bottlenecks?
    Mr. Haddock. The permitting itself doesn't take 29 years, 
but the average EIS is about four years for a mining project 
now. There is a massive amount of baseline data and work that 
has to go in--back, you know, in an iterative process with the 
agency, and there are just detailed studies, and then at the 
tail-end there are massive numbers of comments that then have 
to be responded to that require additional work. It is just a 
very long process that is, at this point, managed by very 
dedicated, very capable federal employees that are stretched 
very thin.
    Senator King. We hope that those federal employees will 
still be here after the next several months, but that's another 
subject.
    What about--how do we look on cooperation with our 
international neighbors? For example, Canada, Australia, 
allies--do we need to have more cooperative relationships in 
that situation, Mr. Somers? Talk about mining as an 
international factor.
    Mr. Somers. Sure. And I think that we do have to 
distinguish between countries that are allies and countries 
that have similar environmental and labor standards like Canada 
and Australia, as you mentioned. You know, a good example of 
cooperation that we see in Utah is the production of tellurium. 
So tellurium is mined at the Bingham Canyon Mine--the Rio Tinto 
Kennecott Mine, and then it's actually sent to Montreal for 
processing and then sent back to Utah and to Arizona for 
manufacturing into----
    Senator King. I don't want to calculate the tariff of that 
going back.
    Mr. Somers. Sure. But I do think that, again, finding ways 
to utilize allied supply chains, and also utilizing existing 
facilities is very important because in many cases you are 
going to be able to get to actual production much quicker if 
you are utilizing existing facilities than if you are trying to 
build them from greenfield operations.
    Senator King. Absolutely. So one word that hasn't been 
mentioned much this morning is processing. My understanding, 
for example, is that a great deal of lithium comes from 
Australia, but something like 85 percent of the processing is 
done in China. Should we also be talking about processing when 
we are talking about mining? Aren't they interrelated in a way, 
because, ultimately, we need that product, the result of the 
processing?
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely. If you are producing extracted 
minerals here in the U.S. but you are having to send them to 
China or another unfriendly nation for processing, then you 
haven't really solved the problem at all. So processing needs 
to be part of this conversation at every level.
    Senator King. So that should be part of what we are 
discussing here in terms of bottlenecks and that process. And I 
think you touched on this, but my notes were, who pays for 
abandoned mine cleanup? And it sounds like it's sort of catch-
as-catch-can, Mr. Wood. There is no steady source of available 
funds.
    Mr. Wood. That's right, and I would be remiss not to 
mention again that the mining industry has been very supportive 
of helping to clean up abandoned mines so long as they don't 
have to hold the liability. But that's the big problem, we 
don't have a dedicated funding source to get ahead of these 
abandoned mines that dot the landscape.
    Senator King. One sort of parenthetical question. Mr. 
Somers, you mentioned a mine that was producing a lot of 
important minerals, and there were other minerals there that 
could be produced at that mine. If you are going after lithium, 
and you have discovered tellurium, do you have to go through 
another permitting process, or can that mine expand its 
production of additional materials without additional delay?
    Mr. Somers. To be honest, that depends on that operation, 
and it depends on the regulatory environment within the state 
where that operation is taking place, but in most cases, it is 
easier to go and to produce new minerals from an existing 
permitted facility, because in many cases it's a matter of 
finding ways, you know, through secondary recovery processes to 
pull other minerals out of a waste stream in many cases. And 
so, again, it depends on the type of operation, but generally 
you are better off, and can get to actual production quicker if 
you are using existing permitted facilities.
    Senator King. Thank you. I am out of time.
    Mr. Haddock, I want to continue our discussion of net 
versus gross royalties, and if you would give us some written 
material on why mining should be treated different than oil and 
gas or coal in terms of the way the royalty is calculated. So 
we are out of time here, but I look forward to having some--
maybe a page or two on that subject.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Haddock. I can point you to materials we submitted to 
the Committee before, and I will do that.
    Senator King. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you to the 
panelists. Rich and Chris, great to see you again. Mr. Somers, 
thank you for joining us as well. I am going to do this on 
behalf of my mining companies in Nevada, but I know they would 
invite any Senator on this panel to come and see hardrock 
mining in the State of Nevada. I think it is important to see 
it and understand what is going on to recognize the challenges 
that they are facing and why they are talking about net 
royalties. So I appreciate that.
    Thank you also for the hard work that I know you have done 
on the Mining Clarity Act, and the work that we have done 
together to really focus on some of the challenges that we 
heard at the last Committee. Now, this is based on those 
challenges. We amended it. It passed out of Committee in a 
bipartisan way last Congress, but I want to put to bed some of 
the stuff that we are still hearing out there with respect to 
this act. So Mr. Haddock, if you would, when we came together 
to address some of the concerns that we heard last time, there 
were concerns that the Mining Clarity Act would allow mining in 
national parks, monuments, and other withdrawn areas. Can you 
address that? Can you talk a little bit about whether that's 
true or not?
    Mr. Haddock. The savings clause in the act makes clear, and 
we worked extensively with Trout Unlimited and others on that, 
that it does not affect any of the laws that govern mining in 
the parks, and it does not change anything that's been 
withdrawn. If it has been withdrawn, it's gone. And I think 
it's crystal clear in the act.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Mr. Wood, you would agree?
    Mr. Wood. I would.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    And then, Mr. Haddock, can you also confirm that the 
savings clause and the restructuring of the language, which 
includes adding the provision to deposit the mill site annual 
maintenance fees into an abandoned mine reclamation cleanup 
fund exists? And that was part of this discussion as we try to 
address some of the concerns. We recognize there is not a 
dedicated funding source, but this was an attempt to try to 
start that process. Is that right?
    Mr. Haddock. It was, and it was a really convenient way to 
do it because this is a new kind of mining claim, and it was 
great to just tie it to abandoned mine reclamation.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Yes, and if you would address the new 
kind of mining claim, because this new language limits where 
these new mill site claims can be located. And there is an 
accusation that somehow this is also a land giveaway or that 
new claims would blanket all of our public lands. Would you 
address that?
    Mr. Haddock. Yes, new claims wouldn't blanket all of our 
public lands. As I have said, it's only a very, very small 
percentage of Nevada's lands that is even inside a plan of 
operations compared to the 22 percent that has already been 
withdrawn and the nine percent that's proposed to be withdrawn. 
We are talking about a tiny percentage of one percent of the 
state that is in plans of operations. And only part of that is 
the ancillary facilities. And so, in order to locate one of 
these new subsection (c) mill sites, you have to have a plan of 
operations. You have to have a real mine. You just can't go out 
and put them anywhere on federal land. You have to have been 
working there. You have to have been drilling. You have 
prepared a plan of operations. You are going into an EIS. You 
have spent tens of millions of dollars at a minimum.
    Senator Cortez Masto. For that plan of operation.
    And then, Mr. Haddock, finally, this bill does not overturn 
or reverse the Rosemont decision. The bill leaves Rosemont in 
place. It just creates a new path that miners can choose to 
take. Can you discuss under what circumstances a mining company 
may choose to take this new path?
    Mr. Haddock. Well, from my perspective, it's an easy choice 
because it's clear, and I don't have to fight in permitting 
over whether or not a given lode claim is valid in the sense 
that it has an economically minable mineral deposit on it 
before I put my crusher on top of that. I don't have to argue 
about whether or not that claim is still valid when I mine 
through it in the underground and I still have a crusher 
sitting on top of it. It eliminates those issues.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Right, but a mining company can 
choose if they want to go under the Rosemont decision as a way 
to exist, they can move through that path or they can move 
through this path setting forth an operational plan with a mill 
site and contributing to abandoned mine cleanup. Is that right?
    Mr. Haddock. They can.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Okay, so there is still a choice 
for----
    Mr. Haddock. There is still a choice.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Okay, I appreciate that.
    And then, finally, let me just say thank you to all of you. 
You have heard the hurdles. There is no doubt the permitting 
process is the hurdle. We absolutely need to, in the West, make 
sure that our federal agencies that are crucial to us 
continuing this mining in Nevada--it is the BLM and DOI--that 
they are adequately funded and staffed. But we also have to 
make sure, and I am going to put a fine point on this, that 
those people in those positions can't use their positions to 
delay permitting by putting it off just because they don't like 
the permitting or the mining that is going on. That is not 
their choice to do. And so, we have to address both ends of it 
when we are looking at moving forward to address the permitting 
process of this as well.
    So thank you again to the Chairman and Ranking Member for 
this hearing.
    The Chairman. Let's see--Senator Gallego is next.
    Senator Gallego. Thank you, Chairman Lee and Ranking Member 
Heinrich, and thank you to our witnesses for your attendance 
today.
    I have been outspoken about the need to shore up our 
critical mineral supply chains for years, especially for our 
national security, and just our energy future, and Arizona 
certainly can be a leader in this space. Over 70 percent of the 
nation's copper comes from Arizona, along with gold, silver, 
zinc, and many others. As we produce--these minerals and metals 
and advanced technology contribute to our economy and build 
infrastructure. We can do this in a way that protects our 
natural resources too. So I am glad to see multiple bipartisan 
bills on critical minerals in this hearing, and I look forward 
to continuing to work on these issues.
    So my first question is for Mr. Wood. You mentioned in your 
testimony that, historically, mining has threatened drinking 
water supply and quality. In states like mine, water is a very 
scarce resource that must be conserved and clean. What other 
actions can the Federal Government take to protect and 
remediate our water in the context of mining and critical 
mineral supply chains?
    Mr. Wood. Thank you, sir, for your question.
    An important step was taken last year with the passage of 
the Good Samaritan legislation, which will allow for 12 pilot 
projects over the next seven years, and then we have every 
intent of coming back and trying to authorize that legislation 
to remove the liability hurdles that organizations like mine or 
mining companies would face by trying to clean up those 
abandoned mines.
    The second, again, I mentioned this earlier, but the second 
point is paramount today--it's funding. There is just no 
funding for it. There is no dedicated funding source. So even 
if you didn't have concerns about liability, you still have to 
go out and cobble together hundreds of thousands--occasionally 
millions--of dollars to do these cleanup projects.
    Senator Gallego. My next question is for Mr. Haddock.
    Please expand on how the Critical Minerals Consistency Act 
would decrease uncertainty about research and tax credits, 
especially those passed by Congress in the last few years.
    Mr. Haddock. Senator, I'm sorry, that last part about how 
the consistency would affect research?
    Senator Gallego. Would decrease uncertainty about research 
and tax credits, especially those passed by Congress in the 
last few years.
    Mr. Haddock. Well, I think the Act simply decreases the 
uncertainty in mine permitting, and I don't think it really 
affects the research and that end of things.
    Senator Gallego. Okay.
    Mr. Wood, back to my question from earlier. You said that 
some of these cleanups can be hundreds of thousands to millions 
of dollars. Is there any national estimate of how much cleanup 
on an annual basis budget we need to actually be effectively 
cleaning up some of these sites?
    Mr. Wood. On an annual basis?
    Senator Gallego. Yes.
    Mr. Wood. It would be nice if we had a billion dollars a 
year, but I am just pulling that out of the air.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Gallego. It would be nice if a lot of us had a 
billion dollars.
    Mr. Wood. Yes, you know, a lot of these projects, to be 
clear, they are minor construction sites, and my engineers get 
mad at me whenever I say this, but in many cases you are 
dealing with tailings, you dig a ditch, you line with an 
impermeable barrier, you bulldoze the tailings in there, put in 
another impermeable barrier, maybe you dig a French drain 
around it, and then you walk away. So a lot of these are not--
these are not Superfund sites that we are talking about. These 
are often low-tech construction projects. They get more 
expensive. The reason I used the millions word was, if you have 
to do something like build a wastewater treatment plant, that, 
obviously, would be more expensive than just doing a small 
construction project.
    Senator Gallego. Okay, thank you. I yield back.
    Senator Heinrich. So with respect to Senator Gallego's 
question, the EPA estimates that the total liability for these 
sites is about $54 billion. So if we had a billion dollars a 
year, it would still take 54 years to get these sites cleaned 
up.
    The Chairman. Senator Hickenlooper.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks for 
having--both you and the Ranking Member--having this hearing, 
and Mr. Haddock, good to see you, and Mr. Somers and Mr. Wood, 
nice to see you again.
    Obviously, I got a master's in geology back in 1979. Spent 
a fair amount of time looking at the difference between geology 
and resources and what the difference is between a lode that 
could be a mine and a lode that couldn't be a mine. I think if 
you go back and look on a broader scale, we are facing 
challenges now that are going to require a much higher level of 
precision when we make those decisions. And Mr. Haddock, 
obviously you have been clear, you and Mr. Somers both, in 
terms of we have that capability now to a large extent.
    We have introduced three bills on critical minerals that 
were part of a number of other bills, and they are mostly 
smaller bills, but they are demanding to--we are trying to 
drive innovation, strengthen coordination, make sure we have 
the appropriate alliances. But I thought that this does seem 
like a moment of alignment where we could actually address--
have a more comprehensive bill that looked at that alignment of 
self interest in terms of really, I think, many people, and my 
first question will be toward you, Mr. Wood, whether you agree 
with this, that many people in the environmental community 
recognize that we are going to need a lot more critical 
minerals if we are going to deal with the challenges of climate 
change--more electric vehicles, wind, solar, you know, all of 
these things demand, not just, you know, rare earth minerals, 
but nickel and copper, I mean, things like this.
    And so, Mr. Wood, just to start that, do you think it's 
possible that we could--can you imagine some sort of a 
consensus from the environmental side of things that we could 
help establish what would be the criteria, the framework, by 
which mining could take place and processing could take place, 
and by so setting standards, we would then export them once we 
have worked our way through that? And I am not saying this 
happens easily. Is that something you can imagine?
    Mr. Wood. I can absolutely imagine that. I don't think we 
are that far apart. I mean, coming up with a reasonable--I am 
not an expert in royalties, but coming up with a reasonable 
royalty, I think, is achievable, it sounds like. Building some 
discretion, whether it's the land use plan or upon enactment of 
a bill to make clear that some areas are suitable for 
development, some are not, that sounds achievable. And I would 
be remiss if I didn't say that rare earth minerals, and 
minerals, generally, are absolutely vital for the future of 
this country. And so, I would rather we mine them here and give 
the industry the certainty it needs while providing the 
protections that conservation demands.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great, and I agree. I think this is 
obviously a unique time, where we have what is too often rare 
in government, which is the alignment of self interest, and 
that's whether you are working in non-profits, or in 
businesses, or in government, the alignment of self interest is 
the secret to progress.
    Mr. Haddock, we introduced the Critical Materials Future 
Act to really expand domestic processing of critical minerals 
and directly reduce our reliance on China. It has been already 
said several times that China does so much of the processing 
for so many of these minerals. Can you elaborate a little bit 
on the need for investments both in domestic mining and also 
domestic processing?
    Mr. Haddock. Well, it's obviously important to have 
processing onshore if you can have it. The materials that we 
would mine and concentrate for processing are still bulk 
materials, and they are expensive to ship.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right.
    Mr. Haddock. So if you have, all things being equal, if you 
have domestic processing, that promotes a domestic industry. 
The other thing I would add is, just to kind of put it in 
context, over the last two decades, China has invested $57 
billion in critical mineral supply chain, onshore and offshore. 
They have recognized the need for that and they have been very 
aggressive. And so that's why so much mineral processing is in 
China.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I agree. Thank you.
    Mr. Somers, just really quickly, expanding domestic mining 
and processing is going to require a skilled workforce. We have 
only 600 students in the United States right now that are 
enrolled in mining-related programs. Many of them are at the 
Colorado School of Mines, I am proud to say. China has 1.4 
million students in mining. How are we going to address this?
    Mr. Somers. Yes, thank you, Senator. I think that that's a 
huge problem, and not just for the technical degrees--the 
mining engineering, chemical engineering, and other degrees--
but also for, you know, skilled trades and other things.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right.
    Mr. Somers. You know, I think that the Mining Schools Act 
that was considered in the last Congress is a good first step 
in that to provide some opportunities for our currently 
certified mining schools to go out and recruit more students 
and have more resources available to them. But, you know, 
solving that workforce problem is critical if we are going to 
be able to reshore these supply chains.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. Thank you, all. And I yield 
back only because I have to. I could spend the afternoon 
talking to you. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thanks, Senator Hickenlooper.
    We will now start the second round.
    Mr. Haddock, I would like to start with you. A few minutes 
ago, you mentioned you would be okay with a new net royalty, 
but that's not, of course, what is being proposed in S. 859. 
How do you think a gross royalty, as proposed in S. 859, would 
affect the industry and would affect essential mining 
investment and development?
    Mr. Haddock. Well, it would be devastating, as the 
testimonies we submitted on the predecessor to this bill showed 
that that kind of royalty would take 67 percent of the value of 
the operation. It would take it up from about 30, where we 
spend today for total government take, to two-thirds of the 
operation, and that just would make the United States 
impossible to do business in.
    The Chairman. So you add that on top of the other burdens 
and it would make it an impossibility.
    Now, Mr. Somers, if there were a net royalty, there might 
be some businesses, some companies, I suspect, that could 
absorb that and deal with it, but what would that do to the 
state of competition in the industry, particularly as it 
relates to smaller companies, those that are less established? 
How would they fare in that environment when they had a net 
royalty added on top of the pre-existing burdens that we have 
been discussing today?
    Mr. Somers. I think it would be very damaging, and 
especially, again, when the resources, obviously, don't move, 
but the capital can move. And so, companies are going to invest 
where they are going to get the best return. And I think 
especially in the mining industry, where we rely very much on 
small exploration companies and on junior mining companies to 
develop many of these mineral deposits, in many cases, they 
will be sold off to larger companies. I think that, you know, 
having anything that hampers investment, especially in those 
smaller companies, and that front-end of the mining, those 
front-end mining operations, would be very damaging in the long 
term.
    The Chairman. So we have to look at this, I suppose, as one 
of many market signals. If we were to do that, like I say, even 
though some larger companies could absorb it, a lot of the 
newer exploration, or at least a significant amount of the new 
development, the new exploration, is undertaken by startups, by 
smaller companies. We have to respond to all kinds of market 
signals--market signals that have to take into account whether 
there is federal land involved, whether to what extent there is 
federal permitting involved, and whether to what extent there 
is a federal litigation risk associated with that permitting. 
You add more things on top of that, including a royalty, a new 
royalty, whether that's gross or even net, doesn't that, in 
many circumstances, chill investment in the United States and 
effectively drive it elsewhere?
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely, and I think it also goes in 
opposition to what many of the states are trying to do to bring 
investment to their state. So in Utah, for example, over the 
past few years we have passed two different tax credits that 
incentivize mineral exploration and also high-cost 
infrastructure associated with mining operations and other 
extractive operations. And so, if you have the states moving in 
a direction where they are trying to incentivize production and 
exploration in order to attract that investment, but on the 
federal side, you are moving in the other direction, then you 
are really canceling those efforts out.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Mr. Somers, how would you compare interacting with federal 
authorities on permitting and other matters to state 
regulators? For example, the Utah Division of Oil, Gas, and 
Mining, sometimes referred to as DOGM. What are those two 
experiences like?
    Mr. Somers. I think, in many cases, you know, as I 
mentioned in my testimony, it's very important that we protect 
primacy for states so that we can manage as many of these 
federal laws and regulations as possible. But in general, I 
mean, the state agencies tend to be more responsive because, 
frankly, we can call their bosses. I mean, we can call, you 
know, the head of the Department of Natural Resources, where 
DOGM is. We can, you know, call the Governor, legislators, and 
get responses there. Whereas, you know, trying to fix problems 
on a federal level becomes much more difficult, you know, and 
not to say that we don't have opportunities to influence those 
agencies through working with our federal delegation and other 
things, but you know, as a general principle, I think, you 
know, the government closest to the people functions the best, 
and we find that in regulatory agencies as well.
    The Chairman. Do you find--is there any kind of inferior 
environmental outcome or greater risk of environmental harm as 
a result of a decision where jurisdiction is vested in a state 
agency, for example, the Utah Division of Oil, Gas, and Mining, 
as compared to federal authorities?
    Mr. Somers. We have not witnessed that in Utah.
    The Chairman. So the biggest significant difference, if I 
am understanding you correctly, is the amount of time, the 
amount of delay, and the uncertainty--shorter, greater 
certainty with the states without a diminished environmental 
outcome?
    Mr. Somers. Correct.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Actually, Senator Murkowski hasn't had a 
chance to even have her first round, so I would defer to her.
    The Chairman. My peripheral vision was off.
    Senator Murkowski. I know, I am so far down the dais here, 
but that's okay. I show up, and that's so much of what matters.
    The Chairman. My wife would call that male refrigerator 
blindness, and it claims many victims.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Murkowski. I am going to have to remember that one.
    I want to thank you for having this hearing. As one that's 
been focused on the issue of critical minerals and the 
vulnerability that we have in this country when it comes to 
being able to access our own, and the increasing reliance on 
countries like China, this is a key issue, and I am glad that 
the Committee is taking it up so early.
    Mr. Somers, I wanted to start with you. There was an 
interesting article in the Wall Street Journal just a bit ago 
entitled, ``Why the U.S. Keeps Losing to China in the Battle 
Over Critical Minerals.'' You may have seen it. But it tells 
the story of Syrah. This is an Australian company that--I have 
cited this story a fair amount in the Biden Administration 
because what we saw was hundreds of millions of U.S. taxpayer 
dollars that went to support that, even though they were 
planning on sourcing the graphite from a very unstable part of 
Mozambique. It's one of those sources of frustration. You watch 
this whole project. Syrah goes into force majeure last year, 
and so, everything that the U.S. taxpayer has put out there is 
at risk, at jeopardy, and you have continued unrest in 
Mozambique. To me, this was a situation where you had just no 
common sense when it came to the federal investment decisions.
    And then, I will submit to you that we have some 
opportunities in our own country to be smart about our 
investments, lower risk investments here at home. My colleagues 
have heard about the potential for Graphite One, the largest 
natural graphite deposit in North America. We pushed, we 
pleaded, we did everything that we could to raise the profile 
on this. We did get support from the Defense Production Act. 
That was helpful. But when it came to Department of Energy, it 
was really pretty tough to get any attention here. So I am 
looking at this, and at least with the previous Administration, 
seeing this unwillingness for the Federal Government to invest 
in projects here at home.
    And so, my question to you is whether or not you think it 
would be wise, advisable, to have some kind of a requirement 
for any federal investments in mineral processing to be tied to 
the extent practical to domestically sourced minerals, because 
we know we are not doing the processing. We want to bring 
processing here. But also, it doesn't make sense if we are 
getting the raw materials from other countries. Speak to this 
if you would, please.
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely, I think that would be a very wise 
requirement. And again, in my testimony, I mentioned that just 
in Utah we have 40 of the 50 critical minerals on the DOI list, 
you know, and you add the graphite that you mentioned in your 
home state, and mineral occurrences in other U.S. states, there 
is really very little reason that we need to go outside of the 
U.S. to source these minerals. And again, if we have both the 
extraction and the processing happening here domestically, then 
that really does shore up our supply chain and ensure that we 
don't have those economic and national security risks.
    I would also say that in many cases, not only are there 
natural deposits, but in the case of graphite, for example----
    Senator Murkowski. Synthetic.
    Mr. Somers [continuing]. There are opportunities, you know, 
there are projects right now, currently, in Pennsylvania and 
West Virginia that are getting graphite from coal, you know, 
with off-gassing of hydrogen, which can be used for electricity 
generation. And so, there are many opportunities for us to be 
innovative as well and not rely on unstable countries in order 
to extract the raw resources.
    Senator Murkowski. Well, thank you for that.
    Let me ask a question of you, Mr. Haddock. In your written 
testimony you briefly mentioned the Bureau of Mines. This was 
abolished back in the '90s. You didn't specifically call for 
its resurrection, but given the importance of what we are 
talking about here today, it's something that I have certainly 
thought about. We have a Department of Energy. Maybe we want a 
Bureau of Mines to look at our mineral security and our 
competitiveness. So what do you think about the idea? What 
would a modern Bureau of Mines look like? What functions would 
they be responsible for?
    Mr. Haddock. Thank you, Senator. That's a great question.
    In my mind, as I was looking at these critical minerals 
bills, and everybody was talking about all the coordination 
between all these various agencies, and this agency could do 
this and that, it just felt like there is a need for 
centralization here. And also, one of the things that I have 
talked about before and I have advocated is that there needs to 
be a knowledge base of, you know, as private explorers are out 
working, we need to find a way to be able to share the 
information that's critical to knowing where these byproduct 
minerals are, and in small concentrations. And so, I don't know 
exactly what it would look like, but I certainly know, in a 
business world, you would create a focus on that with a small 
group of people with the right expertise and focus on those 
very narrow questions.
    Senator Murkowski. Good, well, thank you for that. That 
might be something that the Committee would want to explore, 
Mr. Chairman. You know, where we are trying to eliminate a lot 
of bureaucracy nowadays, but when you are focusing in an area 
as significant as this for our entire economy, it seems to me 
that we might want to give a little more definition. And so, 
certainly something that I would love to work with you all on.
    Thank you, and I appreciate all of you being here today, 
and Senator Heinrich, thank you for the courtesy of the 
refrigerator look over here.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Thanks so much, excellent suggestion.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. I am going to defer to Senator 
Hickenlooper. I know he has a second round.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Great. Let me get back to my question 
there. I got distracted for just that moment. It's always the 
case.
    You guys have been talking a lot about supply chain, and I 
think that's at the essence of all of these things. Again, I 
want to go back to Mr. Somers.
    The National Critical Minerals Council Act, to ensure that 
we are, you know, coordinating minerals policy at the highest 
level of government. Can you elaborate on why it's essential to 
elevate critical minerals to the highest levels of the White 
House, obviously, but also to the agency, and how a national 
council or a minerals advisor could enhance that?
    Mr. Somers. Absolutely, and I would like to echo what Mr. 
Haddock said. I think that, you know, more centralization in 
the Federal Government would be very beneficial in whatever 
form that takes, a Bureau of Mines or a National Critical 
Minerals Council or Minerals Czar. I am not sure exactly, you 
know, what that should look like specifically, but I think that 
ensuring that the Federal Government is working together, and 
you have the Department of Energy, the Department of the 
Interior, the Department of Defense, and the Trade 
Representative, and others, I mean, all the different parts of 
government that need to be involved in these discussions so 
that, you know, we are, again, maximizing our opportunities to 
be self-sufficient with our critical minerals supply chain and 
also dealing with trade issues and other issues that can affect 
investment here in the U.S. is absolutely essential.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I appreciate that more than you can 
imagine. I think collaboration and coordination is going to be 
in high demand.
    Mr. Wood, and this is just, again, someone who also loves 
trout, and like many of your members, I enjoy taking the trout 
out of the water, but also putting them back.
    Mr. Wood. Yes, that's good. That's good.
    Senator Hickenlooper. I think we have some of the largest 
trout, I think, in the country, if you don't recognize that 
yet.
    Mr. Wood. Yes, you do.
    Senator Hickenlooper. What actions can Congress take to 
reduce the impacts of some of these new mining projects? What 
have we not talked about yet where we could get better value?
    Mr. Wood. You know, I think we have talked about several 
topics already that would reduce impact. I will say that modern 
mining is a lot different than historic mining practices. These 
are well-regulated industries. Most of them are well-
capitalized. I do think that the two biggest problems with the 
mining law, I don't think are that unfixable. One is, as I 
mentioned earlier, creating a dedicated funding source or 
royalty, and the second issue would be making clear that there 
is discretion for denying a mine permit early in the process.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Right. I agree. Perfect. Thank you, I 
appreciate that. Obviously, that's a discussion that could go 
on for some hours.
    Mr. Wood. Yes.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Mr. Haddock, we talked about a better 
path forward for mining in this country by simpler permitting 
processes, you know, faster responses, but making sure that we 
have the highest environmental standards. And I guess I could 
say, actually to all witnesses, we have already covered a 
number of the permitting bottlenecks that mining companies face 
on projects. But as we resume on this Committee bipartisan 
discussions and solutions, what would you think--each can 
suggest one--what should be our highest priority?
    Mr. Haddock. I will start. Pass the Mineral Regulatory 
Clarity Act.
    Senator Hickenlooper. Okay, that's fair.
    Mr. Somers.
    Mr. Somers. Again, I think that there has been a lot of 
discussion about permitting reform, and that is absolutely 
critical, and also litigation reform.
    Senator Hickenlooper. There you go.
    Mr. Wood. And I would say, again, funding to clean up 
abandoned mines and allowing some more discretion in the 
process for areas where you shouldn't mine.
    Senator Hickenlooper. All right, absolutely. Well, the 
Ranking Member described, what was it, the $54 billion backlog, 
and yet, the billion dollars a year that you mentioned really, 
it's almost just taking care of what is happening, you know, 
day to day with existing mining, as small as it is. But anyway, 
somehow that has got to come together as well, as we get 
ultimate solutions.
    Anyway, thank you all, I appreciate your work, and look 
forward to working with you going forward.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Okay, I really appreciate all three of our 
witnesses for coming here today. You have offered some very 
valuable testimony that we have all benefited from. As you can 
tell, these are issues on which there is a lot of bipartisan 
consensus--not always on the discrete policy proposals at hand, 
but in many areas there is. At a minimum, there is a lot of 
bipartisan consensus over the importance of these issues, and 
that leads often to legislative consensus, or very nearly such.
    We have some brief housekeeping before we wrap up.
    I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record some 
letters of support for S. 714, the Critical Mineral Consistency 
Act, and S. 544, from the following organizations: the National 
Mining Association, the American Exploration and Mining 
Association, and Citizens for Responsible Energy Solutions also 
submitted one.
    And without objection, so ordered.
    [Letters for the record follow:]
    
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    The Chairman. The record for this hearing will remain open 
for two weeks.
    We thank the witnesses, and we stand adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:25 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]


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