[Senate Hearing 119-15]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                         S. Hrg. 119-15

                LEGISLATIVE PRESENTATION OF THE AMERICAN 
                 LEGION AND MULTI VSOs: JEWISH WAR VET-
                 ERANS OF THE USA, MINORITY VETERANS 
                 OF AMERICA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF 
                 COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS, MILI-
                 TARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, 
                 NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE DIRECTORS 
                 OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE 
                 FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES, AND 
                 WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT
=======================================================================

                             JOINT HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                                 OF THE

                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                                AND THE

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 26, 2025

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE INTIFF FORMAT]      


        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
59-385 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
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                 SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut, 
Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New 
Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                     Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                     Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                     David Shearman, Staff Director
                Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director

                              ----------                              

        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     Mike Bost, Illinois, Chairman

Aumua Amata Coleman Radewagen,       Mark Takano, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa                       Member
Jack Bergman, Michigan               Julia Brownley, California
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Chris Pappas, New Hampshire
Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Iowa       Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, 
Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina        Florida
Derrick Van Orden, Wisconsin         Morgan McGarvey, Kentucky
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Juan Ciscomani, Arizona              Nikki Budzinski, Illinois
Keith Self, Texas                    Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Jennifer A. Kiggans, Virginia        Maxine Dexter, Oregon
Abe Hamadeh, Arizona                 Herb Conaway, New Jersey
Kimberlyn King-Hinds, Northern       Kelly Morrison, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
Tom Barrett, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           February 26, 2025

                                                                   Page

                            REPRESENTATIVES

Hon. Mike Bost, Chairman, U.S. Representative from Illinois......     1
Hon. Mark Takano, Ranking Member, U.S. Representative from 
  California.....................................................     4
Hon. Aumua Amata Coleman Radewagen, U.S. Representative from 
  American Samoa.................................................    17
Hon. Herb Conaway, U.S. Representative from New Jersey...........    19
Hon. Abe Hamadeh, U.S. Representative from Arizona...............    21
Hon. Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, U.S. Representative from Florida    23
Hon. Mariannette Miller-Meeks, U.S. Representative from Iowa.....    26
Hon. Maxine Dexter, U.S. Representative from Oregon..............    27
Hon. Morgan McGarvey, U.S. Representative from Kentucky..........    30
Hon. Kelly Morrison, U.S. Representative from Minnesota..........    31
Hon. Timothy M. Kennedy, U.S. Representative from New York.......    50

                                SENATORS

Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     4
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from 
  Connecticut....................................................     6
Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............    18
Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    20
Hon. Jim Banks, U.S. Senator from Indiana........................    22
Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    25
Hon. Tammy Duckworth, U.S. Senator from Illinois.................    28

                               INTRODUCER

Hon. Joe Courtney, U.S. Representative from Connecticut..........     9

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

James LaCoursiere, Jr., National Commander, The American Legion..    10

  accompanied by

  Joe Sharpe, Director, Veterans Employment and Education 
    Division

  Matthew Jabaut, Chairman, Veterans Employment and Education
    Commission

  Matthew Shuman, Chairman, Legislative Commission

  Julia Mathis, Director, Legislative Division

  John ``Jay'' Bowen, Chairman, Veterans Affairs and 
    Rehabilitation
    Commission

  Cole Lyle, Director, Veterans Affairs and Rehabilitation 
    Division

                                Panel II

Gary Ginsburg, (USA-Ret.), National Commander, Jewish War 
  Veterans of the USA............................................    37

Lindsay Church, Executive Director and Co-Founder, Minority 
  Veterans of America............................................    39

Michael McLaughlin, Legislative Director, National Association of 
  County Veterans Service Officers...............................    40

CDR Rene A. Campos, (USN-Ret.), Senior Director, Government 
  Relations, Military Officers Association of America............    42

Timothy Sheppard, President, National Association of State 
  Directors of Veterans Affairs..................................    44

Raymond Toenniessen, Deputy Executive Director and Vice President 
  for Strategic Initiatives and Innovation, D'Aniello Institute 
  for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......    45

Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt (Ret.), Chief Executive Officer, Wounded 
  Warrior Project................................................    47

                                APPENDIX
                          Prepared Statements

James LaCoursiere, Jr., National Commander, The American Legion..    57

Gary Ginsburg, (USA-Ret.), National Commander, Jewish War 
  Veterans of the USA............................................    82

  Appendix A: Special Focus on Antisemitism......................    92

  Appendix B: Research Briefs from Rand Corporation and D'Aniello 
    Institute for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse 
    University...................................................    93

Lindsay Church, Executive Director and Co-Founder, Minority 
  Veterans of America............................................    98

Michael McLaughlin, Legislative Director, National Association of 
  County Veterans Service Officers...............................   119

  NACVSO Priorities for the 119th Congress.......................   123

CDR Rene A. Campos, (USN-Ret.), Senior Director, Government 
  Relations, Military Officers Association of America............   126

Timothy Sheppard, President, National Association of State 
  Directors of Veterans Affairs..................................   148

Raymond Toenniessen, Deputy Executive Director and Vice President 
  for Strategic Initiatives and Innovation, D'Aniello Institute 
  for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......   166

Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt (Ret.), Chief Executive Officer, Wounded 
  Warrior Project................................................   176

                       Submission for the Record

Partial list of U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs direct 
  service contracts..............................................   205

                        Questions for the Record

The American Legion response to questions submitted by:

  Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan......................................   211

 
LEGISLATIVE PRESENTATION OF THE AMERICAN LEGION AND MULTI VSOs: JEWISH 
    WAR VETERANS OF THE USA, MINORITY VETERANS OF AMERICA, NATIONAL 
  ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS, MILITARY OFFICERS 
  ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE DIRECTORS OF 
    VETERANS AFFAIRS, D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY 
                 FAMILIES, AND WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                   and U.S. Senate,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room 
390, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Bost, Chairman of 
the Veterans' Affairs Committee, presiding.

    Present:

    Representatives Bost, Radewagen, Miller-Meeks, Hamadeh, 
Takano, Pappas, Cherfilus-McCormick, McGarvey, Kennedy, Dexter, 
Conaway, and Morrison.

    Senators Moran, Tillis, Banks, Sheehy, Blumenthal, Hassan, 
King, and Duckworth.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE BOST,
          CHAIRMAN, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS

    Chairman Bost. Good morning. The hearing will come to 
order. And good morning to everyone, thank you all for being 
here, and I would like to welcome my Senate colleagues, 
Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal.
    Before we get started, I would like to acknowledge our 
visitors present from the greatest state, the State of 
Illinois. Anyone out there? Yes? All right. Well, just so you 
know, when I said this yesterday, I am from Southern Illinois, 
which is a little different as far as Illinois is concerned. If 
you are really from Southern Illinois, you capitalize the 
``S.'' And it is not a separate state, but sometimes we feel 
that way. But I want to thank you all for traveling here from 
Illinois. I know that is not an easy travel. I do that on a 
regular basis. But if you would, could you just please stand? 
Those of you that can. Thanks for being here.
    [Applause.]
    And it is an honor to be here with all of you, my fellow 
Legionnaires. I am a Marine veteran.
    Voices. Hooah.
    Notice we Marines say that ``Oorah,'' right? The Army 
people, they say that different. But I am a proud member of 
Murphysboro Post 127. And though we are busy, I want to tell 
you little neat things about Murphysboro Post 127. It is the 
Paul Stout Post and Paul Stout was actually fought as a Marine. 
I know this. He fought in Belleau Wood, then he fought in the 
Battle of Bella, and then he was killed in the next, and he was 
a private. But on his 100th anniversary of his death, we 
actually at the Paul Stout Post--because we have a local craft 
brewery, we actually--they made a Paul Stout [laughter]. And so 
it was wonderful to do that. So I am very happy to talk to you 
about my post.
    Now, before you check, I want you to know I have got my 
dues paid up. So, just, Commander, know my dues are paid. All 
right.
    You know, the American Legion has a dutiful work on behalf 
of those who have served our country for more than 100 years, 
and it is a privilege to be part of that organization. With 
that being said, I also want to welcome Mr. James LaCourseiere, 
the National Commander of the American Legion, and his spouse, 
Lisa. Thank you for being here.
    [Applause.]
    I am looking forward to continuing our partnership to 
better serve veterans across the U.S. The American Legion does 
an outstanding job of sharing their perspective and concerns of 
their members with our Committee. Our work here on the 
Committee is greatly assisted by their dedication to the 
mission. It is our honor. It is an honor for me to be here 
today serving as a House Committee, Veterans' Affairs in the 
Chair. It is my second term as Chair and I never thought this 
corporal would ever have an opportunity to do that.
    This mission of the VA Committee has always been personal 
to me. If you were around yesterday when we had the other 
panels before us, you know that--so my father and his brothers 
were all Army, Korean War. Had a grandfather who was Navy, 
Second World War. Had a grandfather who was Marine, Korean War. 
Had an uncle that was Marine, Vietnam, victim of the ultimate 
oxymoron, friendly fire. He did survive and he is doing very 
well today thanks to a lot of help from the VA. So then me, 
noncombat Marine, and my son who is a Lieutenant Colonel today, 
is actually a reservist, but was active for many years. He is a 
JAG in the Corps. My grandson who just got out of the Corps, 
who was an F-18 mechanic. So as you can see, it is really, 
really personal to me when it comes to our veterans.
    Now, every time I sit at the dais and we are getting into 
debate whether it is with the VA or the other side of the 
aisle, I am always thinking of the veterans. And I told this 
story yesterday and I will tell it again to you. If you have 
ever been around here in DC and seen me walking up down the 
halls or seen me on the floor or seen me here, I wear this 
bracelet. This bracelet has the colors of my Corps, and it was 
given to me by a Vietnam veteran. Honest to goodness, he just 
went by Lieutenant Dan. And Lieutenant Dan gave it to me 11 
years ago whenever he found out that I was going to be on the 
VA Committee. And he said, Mike, I want to give you this and I 
am going to give you a couple of them because if you wear them 
all the time, you will get them dirty, you will wear them out. 
But he said, I want you to wear it because I want you to look 
down and remember who you were there serving, and that way I 
don't forget. I don't think I would forget anyway, but this 
helps.
    For me, it is about the veteran. It is not about protecting 
government bureaucracy. And I know the sacrifices each of you 
have made. Each of you has fought to protect our Constitutional 
rights. We had many important accomplishments last Congress, 
but many issues still remain. And I am grateful for this 
opportunity to learn more about what we as Congress can help 
our Nation's veterans do.
    Veterans should have the freedom to use the benefits of VA 
offered in exchange for their service to meet their individual 
needs. And they shouldn't be spending hours driving in their 
cars to get them or combing through wonky paperwork for months 
on end or needlessly waiting for a phone call to get a simple 
answer. You know where the VA is falling short, as do I. And 
you know where we need to push the agency to bring it out of 
the Stone Age and into the New Age. You have my commitment that 
as long as I am in charge, we will continue to fight for you 
and the voices you represent, the hundreds of thousands of 
veterans outside this DC beltway who just want their health 
care on time and their benefits when they need them.
    This old corporal takes this mission seriously and I know 
my friend and our new Secretary of the VA, Doug Collins, does 
too. Under President Trump's leadership, I know we are going to 
put you, the veteran, and the VA services back at the center of 
the VA mission. And when the bureaucrats try to get in the way, 
I will continue to be the first to hold them accountable and 
get answers for you.
    We made great progress with the passage of the Dole Act, 
and I am incredibly grateful to the American Legion for their 
support in getting this bill across the finish line. And I am 
committed to improving VA's ability to hold their employees 
accountable so that the veterans have access to world class 
care.
    I am grateful to the American Legion for their support of 
the Restore Accountability Act of 2025, which would do just 
that. We must deliver for our veterans to protect their health 
care choice, expand economic and education opportunities and 
streamline benefits and get it--and get it done. I promise to 
keep up the fight we are all in together. Now, it is time to 
take--it is not time to take our foot off the gas. I look 
forward to completing our mission alongside of you.
    Once again, thank you for being here today and I want to 
now recognize Chairman Moran for his opening statement.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
               CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

    Chairman Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you. As I said 
yesterday, I am pleased to be with you and my colleagues from 
the House and the Senate as we examine the desires of a number 
of VSOs for their agenda for this new Congress. And I thank you 
for the Commander. Commander, I thank you for your presence 
here this morning and all the American Legion accompanying 
witnesses. I recognize the role that the American Legion plays 
at home in Kansas and here in Washington, DC as we advocate for 
the well-being of veterans today and in the future. And I 
welcome any Kansans in the audience and welcome Kansans at home 
who are paying attention to this hearing today.
    I want to thank the American Legion for their--and many of 
the of the folks on the second panel for their support for The 
Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and Benefits 
Improvement Act. We must make certain that we don't just pass 
legislation, but it is implemented in a way that actually 
serves veterans, and we are continuing to make certain that we 
take every step to see that is the case in this legislation.
    The American Legion and others testifying here today have 
also extended their support for the ACCESS Act, the Precision 
Brain Health Research Act, the Veterans 2nd Amendment 
Protection Act, and my National Guard and Reserve GI Bill 
Parity Act, all of which have been introduced in this Congress.
    As I said yesterday, the policies and programs that we will 
discuss today depend upon a strong and effective workforce at 
the VA to deliver the care and benefits veterans deserve. I am 
committed to working with the VSOs, with the American Legion 
and others and my colleagues on this panel to make certain that 
the necessary VA workforce is preserved as the VA implements 
new federal workforce guidance.
    The VA must be forthcoming and transparent with Congress, 
with the VSOs, and the public about how it is implementing 
workforce changes and work to avoid or correct actions that 
could undermine veteran access to care and benefits. Thank you 
again, Commander LaCourseiere, for being here. I look forward 
to your testimony, and I yield back.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Senator. I now recognize Ranking 
Member Takano for his opening statement.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK TAKANO,
      RANKING MEMBER, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today we 
continue our annual series of joint hearings. I am pleased to 
welcome our first panel, the National Commander and 
representatives of the American Legion, as well as our second 
panel, representatives from Minority Veterans of America, 
Jewish War Veterans, the National Association of County 
Veterans Service Officers, the Military Officers Association of 
America, National Association of State Directors of Veterans 
Affairs, the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at 
Syracuse University, and the Wounded Warrior Project. I would 
like to extend this very special welcome to the American 
Legion's National Commander, James LaCourseiere, a junior from 
Connecticut, and the National Auxiliary President, Trish Ward 
from Kansas.
    Now, before I begin my remarks, I have to ask, are there 
any Californians in the room this morning? Right on, thank you.
    [Hand clap.]
    You can do better--well, let's move on. These hearings are 
important because they are a great opportunity for us to hear 
from the VSOs about issues impacting veterans in their daily 
lives. It was at these hearings in 2022 when the VSO stood in 
solidarity calling on Congress to pass the Honoring our PACT 
Act. Without you, we would never have passed the largest 
expansion of veterans healthcare and benefits since the Vietnam 
War. Without you, millions of veterans would still be 
struggling to access healthcare for the toxic exposures they 
experienced in service to our country. I will always be 
grateful to the VSOs for helping us get it done.
    Now, as I have said all along, the PACT Act was never meant 
to be a one and done. There is still so much more work to be 
done because the PACT was not only about toxic exposure, it was 
also about our promise to ensure that veterans have access to 
their care and benefits, and that we do everything we can to 
end veteran homelessness and veteran suicide, address new 
categories of illness and injury associated with military 
service, for example blast injury and military traumatic brain 
injury. Finally, achieve Guard and Reserve parity, ensure that 
VA is welcoming to all veterans who have earned the right to be 
there. Ensure that VA's infrastructure can support its mission 
and so much more.
    Unfortunately, I am not optimistic under this 
administration. I have grave concerns about how President 
Trump's Executive orders are being carried out across the 
Federal Government, most especially at the Department of 
Veterans Affairs, and how they are going to impact veterans. We 
learned on Monday that VA indiscriminately fired an additional 
1,400 employees. That means we have lost more than 2,400 VA 
employees just in the last two weeks, many of them veterans. 
And this doesn't even account for the folks who took the 
questionable fork in the road buyout offer. I question how 
purging the workforce, firing the watchdogs, and making VA 
hostile to certain veterans is helping VA serve veterans 
better.
    I think serving veterans is why we are all here. It is 
certainly why I am here and why I serve on this Committee, 
because I think there is no higher calling or honor than to 
serve those who have served.
    Now since he was sworn in, I have requested information 
from Secretary Collins about his implementation of the 
Executive orders and his employment actions against VA 
employees, none of which he has responded to. This is very 
troubling. I am also concerned about the administration's 
attacks on inclusion and accessibility and its focus on 
intentional exclusion. President Trump's remarks are making VA 
a less welcoming place for millions of veterans. In fact, one 
of his first actions was to close the VBA Office of Equity 
Assurance, the office tasked with eliminating disparities in 
the award of disability benefits as a product of 
discrimination. It is absolutely necessary having a negative 
impact on access to care and benefits for our Nation's most 
underserved veterans.
    This administration has turned the DEI into a bogeyman to 
distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to the 
issues that Americans are struggling with. Whether it is eggs 
and gas are getting more expensive and not cheaper, Medicare 
and Social Security are greater at risk than ever before, and 
this administration is too focused on tax breaks for Elon Musk 
and his billionaire friends to care.
    Now, the Chairman is quick to claim that we want to choose 
bureaucracy over veterans, and I dispute that claim. What about 
the veterans who lost their jobs to the Trump administration's 
indiscriminate firings of federal employees? What about the 
black veterans who were unable to access VA home loans due to 
redlining? What about women veterans whose service is still, 
still not valued as much as their male peers and are now 
worried about the loss of gender specific care at VA? What 
about the LGBTQ+ veterans whose health is in jeopardy because 
of the administration's denial of their very existence?
    Ensuring the institution is there to serve veterans is 
putting veterans first. It is our job to ensure access to world 
class health care and benefits to all veterans who have earned 
that right, and I take that responsibility very seriously. It 
is my hope that I can count on the VSO community to help us 
hold VA accountable to all veterans and that you will also hold 
Congress accountable by making sure we walk the talk, that we 
are carrying out our Constitutional oversight responsibilities 
by asking tough questions, demanding answers, and taking 
legislative action when needed. We cannot waver in this because 
we know that veterans are depending on us.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Ranking Member. We now yield to 
the Ranking Member of the Senate, Mr. Blumenthal, for his 
opening statement. Thanks for being here again.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
         RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am honored 
to be here with fellow Legionnaires. Thank you all for coming 
today, and the record will reflect that we are standing room 
only today and some of the folks who attended had to be 
siphoned to a different room. Your being here sends a powerful 
message about how much you care and how you will be a voice for 
veterans. We can make the speeches from this platform, but you 
are the ones who get it done. And I am proud to be a member of 
the American Legion in Connecticut. Very proud to welcome my 
fellow Legionnaire, Jim LaCourseiere and your wife, Lisa, and 
thanks to all of your family. We know that in the military and 
in the VSOs, families serve. Spouses and children serve as well 
as we do.
    And of course, to my colleague, Joe Courtney, thank you for 
being here to do the introductions.
    We know that service in the military these day is very much 
a matter of family. Less than 1 percent of our entire 
population these days have anything to do with service in the 
military. My two sons who have served, of my four children, my 
son Matthew, whom some of you know, a Marine Corps Veteran 
served as an infantry officer in Afghanistan. My other son, 
Michael, a Navy SEAL. But they come by it because they have 
looked to you as role models, and I am very proud to have been 
in the Marine Corps Reserve myself.
    Service in the VSOs and advocacy for veterans is a 
bipartisan task. Let me just stress, it always has been, and it 
must continue to be. I am proud to serve with Senator Moran and 
to introduce with him just recently the National Guard and 
Reserve GI Bill Parity Act, which would expand the GI Bill's 
eligibility to Guard and Reserve members every day in uniform 
on account for those kinds of well-earned benefits. And with 
Senator Boozman, the Caring for Survivors Act, which would 
increase the dependency and indemnity compensation payments to 
surviving spouses. We have to continue that bipartisan 
tradition.
    And I want to thank the veterans service organizations for 
blowing the whistle on what is happening these days, literally 
every day. You heard some of them from Representative Takano, 
and I quoted yesterday from the Veterans of Foreign Wars 
Commander Lipphardt, who said, ``That the administration is 
engaged in indiscriminate firing,'' I am quoting him, ``of 
veterans in the government workforce.'' I am also calling on 
VFW members to march forth and join me on March 4th when he 
will be testifying. And I am quoting him, ``I want to see hats 
in the hallways of our Capitol as our legislative committee 
members engage with lawmakers in demanding that they `Honor the 
Contract' the government made with those who have already 
served and sacrificed so much for America and their fellow 
Americans. It is time to apply pressure and stop the 
bleeding.''
    That is on us, all of us, to be there for our veterans, to 
be their voice and face in protesting the 2,400 firings that 
have already occurred at the VA. Across the government, 6,000 
veterans have been fired from their jobs in government 
agencies. Just last night, the secretary of the VA announced 
cancellation of 875 contracts worth $2 billion. He began his 
message, ``I got some big news for you.'' And then he had a 
happy talk video which assured us that no problem, nothing to 
see here. They are all just consulting contracts. Well, in 
fact, I have a spreadsheet. I am going to ask, if there is no 
objection, Mr. Chairman, that it be made a part of our record.
    Chairman Bost. Without objection.
    Senator Blumenthal. This is a partial list, partial list of 
those 875 contracts that provide direct service to veterans for 
cancer care, for recruiting of doctors, for decontamination of 
facilities that are polluted. This list was provided to my 
office by officials within the VA. It doesn't contain 
procurement sensitive information. It is a description of some 
of those contracts and input from VA officials on why they are 
needed to help serve veterans and taxpayers. And I am asking 
the Secretary to provide us with a clean copy, a full copy, 
full disclosure and transparency. And I will ask that it be 
made part of the record when it is furnished. I have asked a 
bunch of questions.
    Chairman Bost. Without objection.

    [The information referred to appear on pages 205-208 of the 
Appendix.]

    Senator Blumenthal. Representative Takano has--I have yet 
to receive answers.
    Let me just conclude by saying, and I am going to quote the 
VA Secretary in his video, ``Don't let nameless sources, even 
Senators and House members who want to scare you and media who 
want to perpetuate the line. We are taking care of the 
veterans.'' That is belied by those cuts, by the hiring 
freezes, by the firings that are occurring in real time right 
now. And they are having a real impact in Connecticut where 
veterans are coming to me and saying, for example, the Veterans 
Crisis Line has been impacted, making a difference in people's 
lives, saving veterans from potential suicide.
    I want to thank all of you for being here today and 
providing that kind of face and voice which is so essential to 
making sure that our veterans are represented, that their 
interests are protected, and that we stop the bleeding. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Ranking Member. Now, once again, 
my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are choosing to 
put fear over facts. Last night they erroneously announced that 
the VA is canceling 875 contracts, hoping to create panic and 
score political points. Contracts should be reviewed if they 
are outdated, redundant or ineffective. That is good 
government. You want good government. This is about responsible 
stewardship to each one of you as a veteran who have fought to 
make sure that the facilities and the VA is providing for your 
needs at the best possible dollar because not only are you 
veterans, you are taxpayers. Not only are you taxpayers, but 
you are also this country. You have fought to make sure our 
country remains free. And if we don't sensibly handle our 
budget in this Nation and China owns our debt, you will all 
have fought for naught. Now think about that.
    Last night, Secretary Collins announced termination of 
contracts valuing $2 billion. While we do not know the final 
number of terminated contracts, it is not 875. And reviewing 
the contract is a best practice that we all should support. You 
would do it in your household. Why in the world wouldn't we do 
it at the VA? One, because it usually makes something work 
better, and two, because it usually makes room for something 
better to take its place. It is about ensuring every dollar 
spent by the VA directly supports veterans, not wasteful 
bureaucracy.
    And on a couple other issues. When those who have received 
the slips of being laid off receive those slips--in their slip, 
it says that if you think your job is essential, you can appeal 
to your supervisor and immediately have a review. And there is 
due process in place to make that no one is lost through that 
process.
    And when it comes to the hotline for our veterans 
experiencing the fear of possibly committing suicide, there 
were a few backroom employees that unfortunately were included 
in that list and they have already been put back on the job. We 
are doing the thing that we need to do for you as veterans and 
for you as taxpayers.
    And with that, we need to move on with the Committee. And 
with that, I want to now yield to our friend and colleague, 
Representative Courtney, to introduce the American Legion 
Commander.

              INTRODUCTION BY HON. JOE COURTNEY, 
              U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CONNECTICUT

    Mr. Courtney. Great. Well, good morning and thank you, 
Chairman Bost, Chairman, Senator Moran, Ranking Member 
Blumenthal, my friend and colleague from Connecticut, and 
Ranking Member Takano.
    And again, it is a great privilege and honor to be here 
today to introduce the new National Commander of the American 
Legion, Jim LaCourseiere, who is a constituent from Plainfield, 
Connecticut in the 2nd Congressional District and also a good 
friend. We have known each other for many years. It has an 
exciting moment for Connecticut. It has been 71 years since a 
Legionnaire from Connecticut has held the position as National 
Commander, and he is somebody who has gotten there the old-
fashioned way. He has really earned it. He is an Air Force 
veteran, served in the 1980s, served overseas in Grenada and 
Lebanon, honorably discharged, and is again, after he left the 
Service, began a 27-year journey to get to where he is today as 
National Commander.
    His post, Post 91 in Plainfield, Connecticut, is a very 
activist post, very healthy post in terms of membership. Put on 
a lot of veterans events in the district. Actually, Connecticut 
and Eastern Connecticut has the highest concentration of 
veterans in New England. We, again, are a district that has the 
oldest submarine base in America, the Groton Submarine Base. 
9,000 sailors and officers. And sometimes people don't think of 
New England necessarily as a high concentration veteran area, 
but the opposite is true.
    And as I said, Jim, you know, both as a local commander and 
also working in the state department of American Legion in 
Connecticut, again, has just been a really passionate advocate 
for advancing the goals both at the state level in Hartford and 
here in Washington, DC. But even more importantly, we have 
worked together on individual casework with veterans who have 
been struggling in terms of getting the help that they need. 
And again, I just cannot think of a better person to really 
take on the tough job of leading this great organization, the 
American Legion.
    A lot of people are very cynical these days. Obviously 
about Washington, DC, they think the only way you can ever get 
anything done down here is by hiring lobbyists or having super 
PACs. The American Legion is actually the true rebuttal of that 
in terms of just the grassroots advocacy with individual 
members coming to Members of Congress office to advocate year 
in and year out. And again, as we have heard from many of the 
speeches earlier this morning, I mean, there have been some 
really tremendous success that kind of defy the conventional 
wisdom that you can never change anything here in Washington.
    So again, it is my honor to again introduce and yield to 
Jim and wish him all the best in terms of his service in the 
next year as National Commander. And again, I think he is going 
to do great things for our country. And with that, I yield 
back. Thank you.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Congressman Courtney.
    [Applause.]
    And I would--I would now like to recognize Commander 
LaCourseiere to introduce the individuals on the panel.
    Mr. Courtney. So Jim is joined today by Julia Mathis from 
the Legislative Department of the American Legion. Director 
Cole Lyle from the VA&R. Chairman Jay Bowen also from the VA&R. 
Chairman Matt Jabaut from the great State of Maine as the VE&E. 
And Director Joseph Sharp, VE&E. And Chairman Matt Shuman of 
Legislative. And welcome to all of them for being here this 
morning.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you all for being here.
    [Applause.]
    And Commander, you are now recognized for 10 minutes for 
your opening statement.

                            PANEL I

                              ----------                              


 STATEMENT OF JAMES LACOURSIERE, JR., NATIONAL COMMANDER, THE 
 AMERICAN LEGION ACCOMPANIED BY JOE SHARPE, DIRECTOR, VETERANS 
 EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION DIVISION; MATTHEW JABAUT, CHAIRMAN, 
 VETERANS EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION COMMISSION; MATTHEW SHUMAN, 
   CHAIRMAN, LEGISLATIVE COMMISSION; JULIA MATHIS, DIRECTOR, 
 LEGISLATIVE DIVISION; JOHN ``JAY'' BOWEN, CHAIRMAN, VETERANS 
AFFAIRS AND REHABILITATION COMMISSION; AND COLE LYLE, DIRECTOR, 
          VETERANS AFFAIRS AND REHABILITATION DIVISION

    Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you, Chairman Bost, and thank you 
for the very kind introduction Congressman Courtney. I would 
also like to give a special shout-out to Senator Richard 
Blumenthal, also from Connecticut.
    Chairman Bost, before I begin, with your permission, I 
would like to introduce a few very important people to me. Sons 
of the American Legion, National Commander Joseph Navarrete of 
New Mexico, American Legion Auxiliary National President Trish 
Ward of Kansas, American Legion National Officers serving with 
me this year, and past National Commanders of the American 
Legion. And last, my incredible wife, Lisa.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, Chairman Moran, 
Ranking Member Blumenthal, on behalf of nearly 3 million 
members of the American Legion family who proudly serve 
communities, states and our Nation every day, we deeply 
appreciate the opportunity to discuss our legislative 
priorities for the 119th Congress. Your distinguished 
Committees focus almost exclusively on our Nation's sacred 
obligation to ensure that veterans of the United States Armed 
Forces receive the best health care, disability benefits and 
respect they deserve after their service.
    But I want to put that obligation into a slightly different 
context.
    It begins with military service. We are all aware of the 
recruiting challenges our branches of service have faced in 
recent years. One frequently stated reason directly points to 
our work in support for veterans. A propensity to serve. 
Military service is an important commitment. A major part of 
the American Legion's purpose is to make sure that commitment 
provides worthwhile during and after time spent in uniform.
    Over the decades, the American Legion has fought to 
establish and provide continuous oversight for the Department 
of Veterans Affairs to ensure care for all who have borne the 
battle. We drafted and fought to pass the GI Bill and to 
improve it regularly over the years, so it stays relevant for 
new generations.
    To empower those who served with opportunities to succeed. 
We created a network of trained accredited service officers to 
represent veterans in matters with the VA to ensure that 
veterans understand the laws that have been passed to help them 
with health care and disability benefits they earned and 
deserve. The American Legion demanded accountability for those 
who were sickened or died due to toxic exposure, and we worked 
to reduce any stigma associated with seeking mental health 
care. The American Legion believes that each one of us can and 
must Be The One to help just one other veteran overcome suicide 
risk.
    Peer-to-peer support. Put simply, it is what we do. If we 
fail to live up to these important covenants, the thanks of a 
grateful Nation to those who have sacrificed so much simply 
falls flat. Young people have been told that military service 
will leave them broken or unsupported in the end, will think 
twice about their propensity to serve at all. And that is a 
matter of National Security.
    We need to change the narrative. We can change the 
narrative. Service in the United States Armed Forces is hard 
enough that service should not create unnecessary hardships. We 
stand by federal efforts to create a more efficient, cost 
effective VA. We must also look closely at connections that can 
be made better before discharge because they weigh heavily on 
life afterward.
    Among our legislative priorities, and has been the case for 
many years, is completion and implementation of an electronic 
health records management system that documents deployment and 
medical history from the day of enlistment throughout a 
veteran's life. As Chairman Bost has stated, veterans are also 
taxpayers, and billions of our taxpayer dollars have been spent 
on this. The result has been delays, unsuccessful pilot 
programs, flawed infrastructure, and the continued inability of 
the Department of Defense and VA to make a transition seamless 
as possible for those leaving service and entering their lives 
as veterans.
    Another concern we hear continuously from the newest 
generation is the ineffectiveness of an outdated Transition 
Assistance Program, also known as TAP. Members of the Armed 
Forces deserve the chance to convert their military training 
and skills into meaningful post-service careers, and that takes 
an effective, outcome-driven TAP program. A program that takes 
into account all the challenges of transition from financial 
knowledge to career opportunity to mental health services. 
Otherwise, all that training and all those skills in the United 
States invested in these service members are left behind when 
they could be helping drive the United States economy forward.
    Veterans left to confront difficult transitions without 
proper preparation are at risk for a number of bad outcomes, 
not the least of which is suicide. According to the VA's own 
research, veterans are the most at risk for suicide in the 
first 12 months after discharge. Additional research has shown 
that financial strain accounts for 20 percent of the top 20 
risk factors for suicide. A hard look at TAP, which needs to 
begin earlier for those nearing separation, can lead to a 
stronger model that will ease transition and advance the 
propensity to serve.
    Military service becomes a more worthwhile pursuit when the 
rewards in that service are valuable.
    Chairman Bost, there may be no greater incentive to serve 
in the United States Armed Forces than the GI Bill. There were 
10 planks in the original GI Bill, not just free college 
tuition. Also included were health care, the ability to 
affordably purchase a home, business opportunities, and 
occupational training for the severely disabled so they could 
reenter civilian life empowered with purpose. Many said the GI 
Bill would break the Treasury. In fact it returns $7 for every 
taxpayer dollar invested. It built the American middle class, 
which our Nation has enjoyed for over half a century and still 
enjoys today.
    And now, as we continue to seek congressional action to 
provide GI Bill Parity for National Guard and Reserve veterans, 
we must ask, why wouldn't we? All we have is proof that it 
works. We can change the narrative about the outcomes of 
military service. We can change it with tangible steps such as 
highly efficient VA health care and benefits systems that are 
easier to access and navigate. Regardless of whether you live 
in a big city or in rural Kansas or Illinois, using telehealth, 
community providers, or traditional VA facilities, mental 
health support without stigmatization and advance what we call 
Post Traumatic Growth (PTG) to empower those so effective to 
not only recover but to thrive. A TAP program and GI Bill that 
truly live up to the promises our Nation has made to those who 
have chosen the path of military service.
    A propensity to serve simply means understanding the value 
of the commitment I and my fellow Legionnaires in this room 
have made. It is a lifelong commitment, and we are all proud of 
our service because we know America is worth it. We are duty 
bound as veterans who believe in a strong America to do all we 
can to show that worth.
    In the American Legion, we don't just talk about these 
issues, we live them. So far, our academic partner, Columbia 
University, the American Legion have trained more than 12,000 
people nationwide to identify risk for veteran suicide and take 
the right steps to prevent it through our Be The One mission. 
Last year, American Legion service officers helped more than 
1.2 million veterans free of charge with their VA disability 
claims and resulted in $21 billion in awarded claims to 
veterans. Each year the American Legion at the local, state and 
National levels is involved with more than 1,100 career events 
to help veterans and families in transition.
    The American Legion family also spends millions of 
volunteer hours and donates billions of dollars annually to 
support VA facilities nationwide. We also mentor thousands of 
young people each year and award millions of dollars in 
scholarships to help them become productive, responsible 
citizens.
    And when natural disasters strike, from hurricanes in the 
Carolinas to wildfires in Los Angeles, our members leaned into 
harm's way and provide relief. American Legion family post 
squadrons and units have been vital partners in recovery from 
disaster for over a century.
    Like you, we all took an oath to support and defend the 
Constitution, the United States of America. We work with our 
government of this great Nation that pledged our lives to 
defend because we want to see America continue to prosper.
    On behalf of the Nation's largest veterans service 
organization, I thank you for the opportunity to share these 
thoughts with you and look forward to working with this new 
Congress, especially as we draw near to the 250th anniversary 
of our great Nation's independence.
    Chairman Bost, Chairman Moran, I thank you for the 
opportunity to address your critical Committees and I look 
forward to answering your questions you or other Members may 
have. Thank you.
    [Standing ovation.]

    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCoursiere appears on page 
57 of the Appendix.]

    Senator Moran [presiding]. Commander LaCourseiere, thank 
you for your very forceful testimony. Thank you for your 
presence, and your colleagues here today.
    We were going to have a round of 3 minute questions, and I 
would ask my colleagues because of the length of the day, that 
we work hard to stay within that 3 minutes.
    And I now recognize myself for that first 3 minutes.
    Commander, are you hearing concerns from veterans whose 
conditions are not covered by presumption of service-connection 
or whose locations or years of service are not included in 
existing presumptions? If so, are you voicing these concerns to 
the VA and what are you being told by the Department of 
Veterans Affairs?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Moran, the American Legion cares 
deeply about this and how it impacts our veterans. At this 
time, to give you a more clear response, I would like to turn 
it over to Director Cole Lyle of VA&R.
    Chairman Moran. Director.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. The American Legion obviously lobbied very hard for 
the passage of the PACT Act. I think the greatest mechanism 
that the PACT Act created was the ability for the VA to 
consider new presumptive conditions in a faster, timelier 
manner so we don't get into another Agent Orange situation 
where veterans have to wait years and decades to receive the 
benefits and healthcare that they deserve from specific 
conditions. I am not aware of any specific conditions not 
currently covered by the list of presumptives under the PACT 
Act, but I am happy to take that for the record.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAL Response: The American Legion recently met with veterans who were
 active duty at inactive nuclear test sites (recognized by the EPA as
 containing actively radioactive soil) suffering from a variety of
 cancers (lymphomas I believe were the most common). They also reported
 reproductive concerns; one veteran had three live born children die
 before the age of 10.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAL Response (cont.): Families stationed at Atsugi base in Japan have
 reported several cancers and respiratory conditions common in the
 population.
 
Pearl Harbor Joint Base had a water contamination crisis in 2021, which
 affected families and service members stationed there. It took a week
 for the families to be told the water was contaminated and \1/3\ of
 them sought medical care. They reported rashes and persistent
 migraines, but we are unaware of any specific cancers or other chronic
 physiological issues. It's too soon to know long term issues.
 
These issues have been relayed to VA officials, and we have not yet
 received feedback.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Chairman Moran. Let me--thank you for your answer. Let me 
follow up with a reminder that Title II of the PACT Act 
established a new framework to make decisions regarding new 
presumptions of service-connection, which hopefully intended to 
make it easier for non-toxic exposed veterans to file for, 
receive, and receive disability compensation. Over two years 
after the enactment of the PACT Act, I would ask if the VA is 
utilizing that process in consultation with you and other VSOs 
to give you the opportunity to provide that information.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the VA is supposed to 
have quarterly briefings and updates in collaboration with the 
veterans service organizations. They have not been occurring on 
a regular basis, and we have expressed concerns to VA officials 
about those meetings to continue to have a collaborative 
discussion on new presumptive conditions.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, I will do the same thing.
    Commander, could you speak to the important role that State 
Veterans Homes play in caring for our Nation's veterans. And 
why, in at least in my view, it is critically important to 
increase resources for the creation of new homes as well as 
well as renovate and expand existing home?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Moran, again, thank you very much 
for that question. Because the American Legion cares about this 
with our veterans and how they are impacted by it, for more 
clarity, I would like to turn that back over to Director Cole 
once again.
    Chairman Moran. Director.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. State Veterans Homes obviously play a critical role 
in the long term care and health services of our Nation's 
veterans. You know, the American Legion will continue to 
advocate for funding and for the creation of State Veterans 
Homes in support of our Nation's veterans.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you. I now recognize the Ranking 
Member of the House, Representative Takano.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairman Moran. Commander 
LaCourseiere, have you seen the VFW statement related to VA's 
indiscriminate firing of veterans?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano, no, I have not read 
that yet, but I did hear about that and after this conference I 
will look into it and then I will discuss it with our D.C. 
staff.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. Do you agree with some of the 
sentiments in that statement that the loss of thousands of VA 
employees, many of them veterans, is troubling?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano, because the 
American Legion fights to protect and oversee the care and 
well-being of our veterans on a daily basis, once again, I 
would like to turn this back over to Director Cole.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. Director, Mr. Cole.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Mr. Commander, and thank you for the 
question, Ranking Member Takano. Obviously there is a lot of 
anxiety about this in the--in the veteran community. We two 
days ago spoke, we held a leadership panel with senior career 
officials of the VA who actually did express happiness with the 
liberal exemption policy, as they put it. The firings 
themselves, we spoke with the Secretary of Veterans Affairs 
yesterday. Today, our testimony is our statement that we did 
have a conversation with him and concerns about the clarity in 
which these firings were occurring and that we would like to 
have a productive conversation with him and with your 
Committees going forward about how it would impact veterans.
    But the career officials that we spoke with, I asked this 
direct question and said, ``do you anticipate any impacts of 
these firings on veteran direct healthcare and benefits?'' And 
they did not express any concern that they would, but we will 
continue to have productive conversations with them.
    Mr. Takano. What about the veterans themselves who have had 
stellar performance records, but whose memo which stated that 
they were fired because of their performance is one of the 
reasons? Do you have any concerns about actual veterans who 
were dismissed with such memos?
    Mr. Lyle. Sir, I--I am not aware of any specific cases. I 
am happy to take that for the record and work with your office 
on those specific cases. But I will say the American Legion, 
whether it be government employees or private sector employees, 
stands ready to assist veterans dealing with unemployment, 
financial challenges, and other things.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TAL Response: In the time passed since this question was posed, there
 have been court rulings to reinstate those who were fired by VA.
 Although we are aware of veterans with good performance as a federal
 employee taking the Delayed Retirement Program, we have not encountered
 specific cases of a veteran being fired due to alleged performance
 issues with a track record of good performance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Mr.--Commander LaCourseiere, I 
see in your written testimony the American Legion recognizes 
the importance of balancing the use of community care with VA 
direct care and that VA's agent infrastructure is a contributor 
to the misbalance we are seeing. How do you think we should 
address this to ensure that there is always a VA for veterans 
to go to?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano in all respect and 
to save on time, I am going to turn that over to Director Cole 
again, please.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. Community care and the 
codification of access standards, I think is or the American 
Legion thinks is the right way to go to ensure veterans can get 
the care they need when they need it. I think to a large 
extent, infrastructure obviously plays a huge role in the VA's 
internal capacity to be able to care for them. And we have 
expressed a desire for increased appropriations for major and 
minor construction, an increase in flexibility of leasing so 
that the VA is able to handle--preferably get the care at the 
VA rather than sending them out into the community. But 
ultimately the veteran must come first, and that decision must 
be between a veteran and their provider based on their best 
medical interest.
    Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I quoted earlier 
Secretary Collins who said that you should disregard Senators 
and House members who want to scare you. We are telling you the 
truth and it is scary, and I urge you to ask for the facts 
about those VA employees who have been fired. Employees with 
years of service who have good performance reviews and more 
important than even their fate, they serve veterans. They are 
the ones who process those benefits under the PACT Act.
    One of the most common constituent complaints I receive and 
you as Legionnaires, probably with your fellow veterans here, 
is the delay in processing benefits. These are not gifts. They 
are not charitable handouts. You have earned them under the 
PACT Act, under all of the government programs that keep 
promises to you. The VA is breaking those promises. And it 
isn't even the VA. It is Elon Musk who is using algorithms and 
AI formulas. His tech bros are applying them to decide well, so 
and so is dispensable, this benefits processor, these doctors. 
We need to reestablish the kind of oversight and supervision 
that they are eliminating through abolishing and firing the 
inspectors general.
    I want to thank you Commander for your testimony. ``The 
hiring freeze has the potential to impact millions of veterans, 
particularly those waiting on adjudication of claims post-PACT 
Act,'' that indicates to me that you share this concern. Do you 
know of veterans, Commander, who have been delayed in terms of 
benefits received?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Blumenthal, thank you very 
much for that question and everything. That is a topic that we 
are very concerned about because we do care about the well-
being of our veterans and their families. But at this time, 
once again, I would like to defer it over to Director Cole.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Ranking 
Member Blumenthal. We, again, spoke with those VA officials and 
raised similar concerns. I know the last year VA officials said 
that they were aiming at VBA and the Board of Veterans' Appeals 
to get back to pre-Pandemic lump luck levels by the end of 
2025. I asked them in consideration with all the personnel 
changes, the hiring freeze, return to work, all of them, if 
they anticipated any negative effect on veteran benefits, and 
they indicated that it would not affect their ability. They 
said that that goal to get back to pre-Pandemic levels by the 
end of this year was still the target.
    Senator Blumenthal. Well, let me suggest that you apply a 
high degree of skepticism.
    Mr. Lyle. Yes, sir.
    Senator Blumenthal. To the happy talk and smiley faces of 
the VA who obviously have a party line to espouse, and talk to 
your members, talk to veterans, talk to real people who are 
suffering real impacts, not just on the processing of benefits 
in a timely way, but also Veterans Crisis Line that save people 
from suicide. Recruiting of doctors. There are shortages.
    I am willing to bet in most of your VA facilities, doctors 
and nurses, they need to be recruited and retained. Go down the 
kinds of services that are essential to health care and 
benefits. You can't fire 2,400 people without there being an 
impact. I yield back.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator. Representative 
Radewagen of American Samoa is recognized.

              HON. AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,
            U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM AMERICAN SAMOA

    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Members. 
Talofa lava. I want to thank you for holding this important 
hearing today, as well as thanking the panel for being here. 
Thank you for your sacrifice and service to our Nation.
    My home district is almost 10,000 miles from Washington, 
DC, so I am just wondering if we have a veteran or two who has 
traveled all the way in from the Pacific Islands. Probably not, 
but I thought I would ask.
    Mr. Takano. Ah.
    [Applause.]
    Mrs. Radewagen. All right, thank you so much.
    I wanted to say that just a few weeks ago, I traveled by 
car down South and visited eight military installations, and I 
also invited the American Legion to come along. And so we were 
able to visit nine American Legion posts, and I was honored to 
spend time and have little town hall meetings along the way 
with hundreds of veterans. And so I want to thank your 
leadership for helping to put this together. And my special 
thanks to American Legion's Ariel De Jesus for accompanying my 
husband and me on this rather lengthy trip.
    [Applause.]
    Commander LaCourseiere, the American Legion supports the 
Restore VA Accountability Act of 2025. Why is it important to 
provide additional tools to address poor performance and ensure 
that VA is serving all veterans with the highest standards, 
Commander?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you for that question, Ms. 
Radewagen. American Legion, once again, we do care about the 
care and well-being of our veterans. I would like to turn this 
back over to Director Cole again.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, 
Congresswoman. I know that Ariel very much enjoyed his trip 
with you through those states, eight military bases.
    The American Legion has several resolutions in support of 
accountability and efficiency at the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. We believe that the VA should be an agency that is 
accountable for to the veterans that it serves. We know that 
last year the Office of Inspector General produced 100 and some 
odd reports to the tune of about $9.2 billion in monetary 
impact. So we know that it exists. There is efficiencies to be 
made, and we have supported the Accountability Act in the past.
    Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Representative. Senator Tillis 
is recognized.

                       HON. THOM TILLIS,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to all of 
you and thank you for your service and continuing to serve. I 
think it was Senator Blumenthal that said that real people are 
suffering with real impacts. Did that just start three weeks 
ago in the VA, real people suffering real impacts, or do we 
have unacceptable wait times and fewer options for members who 
are in stress? So, in other words, is this a new phenomenon or 
do we have work to do that predated the transition, Commander?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Tillis, thank you very much for 
that question and everything. And I would like to start by just 
saying that any wait time is----
    Senator Tillis. Unacceptable.
    Mr. LaCoursiere [continuing]. Unacceptable.
    Senator Tillis. That was an unfair question because----
    Mr. LaCoursiere. No, no, no. But we would like to respond 
to that----
    Senator Tillis. Yes.
    Mr. LaCoursiere [continuing]. A professional manner from 
the American Legion.
    Senator Tillis. Well, good. Let me just revise what I am 
particularly interested in. I don't know, and like I said 
yesterday in the DAV hearing, that I am a very boring 
management consultant that is driven by facts. So what I want 
to know is of the terminations that we have seen or the 
separations today, have they been stratified in a way to where 
I know if they are physicians, physical therapists, nurses, 
people on the front line, critical positions, if they are in 
the customer facing organization, I just simply--I am asking 
for that information and if we found some bad separations, I 
will make it known. I am just wondering whether or not you all 
have access to that information yet. And Ms. Mathis, I will 
leave it to you.
    Ms. Mathis. Thank you, Senator Tillis and thank you 
Commander. We do not have that information in hand right now. 
We have intention to be in close dialogue with the VA, but also 
with the veterans to find out exactly what the issues are and 
to monitor what will be the impacts. It does matter to us.
    Senator Tillis. I want that as quick, I mean, you have got 
the eyes on the ground, and if there is a personnel separation 
that has had an appreciable impact on serving veterans, then 
call me. I will be the first one to go to the Senate floor and 
say this has to stop. But what I think is unhelpful is when we 
just have this incoming going in every direction, people are 
only talking about the top line political comments that get you 
on TV. They are not talking about trying to measure whether or 
not there are real impacts that we need to worry about, whether 
or not we need to communicate that if there are any further 
reductions in force or realignments, we need to be advised on 
it very, very quickly.
    So I would really--you all are extraordinary organization. 
I see some familiar faces and friends here at the dais that I 
wish I had more time to speak with. But as we go through this 
transformation, I am holding out the hope that this is all 
about getting the most critical people, the most important 
service levels for veterans improved. There is a thesis here 
that this is somehow, it just seems odd for me to accept just 
on its face that this is all with an intent to degrade 
opportunities for veterans to get a receipt, get another 
payment on a debt we can never repay. Why does anybody think 
that that is politically or operationally sustainable?
    So to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that 
want to focus on the top line, that is fine. We are in a 
Committee hearing, there are TVs on and cameras on. But behind 
the scenes, why don't we look and really determine to what 
extent, if any, these reductions are having an appreciable 
impact on the service levels that I believe that every veteran 
deserves. They should be top quartile.
    And I thank you all. As you get information, make sure you 
report back to me. God bless you all and anybody in and around 
North Carolina out there?
    Voice. Arff.
    There you go. Thank you.
    Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator. Congressman Conaway, 
you are recognized for 3 minutes.

                       HON. HERB CONAWAY,
              U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW JERSEY

    Dr. Conaway. I think I just realized how to recognize 
someone from North Carolina.
    Thank you Chairman Bost and thank you certainly to the 
American Legion. As a fellow Legionnaire, I am certainly very 
pleased to be with you today.
    As a doctor, I am troubled and greatly disappointed by the 
actions taken by the VA to terminate nursing assistants, supply 
technicians, schedulers who support doctors in their work and 
their shared work to provide life saving treatment to veterans. 
Without adequate support staff, physicians will be overwhelmed 
with scheduling, paperwork, and other administrative tasks, 
leaving them with less time to care for veterans. And we have 
heard that we have lost a contractor that had great success in 
recruiting much needed physicians into the VA workforce. And of 
course, these terminations go to the very heart of the wait 
times that all of us find so unacceptable.
    My staff met just yesterday with employees who worked as 
trainers for the many persons who were discharged, terminated 
from the Veterans Crisis Line. Now we know and we have heard 
testimony, written testimony from Commander LaCourseiere that 
we are seeing marked increases in the use of the Veterans 
Crisis Line. Many calls are coming in today and I heard in my 
office just yesterday from local American Legionnaires about 
the 22 men that we are losing, and women, that we are losing 
every day to suicide. So it is particularly concerning to hear 
about and understand that these cuts have taken place.
    So could you elaborate, Commander, on the implications of 
understaffing the crisis line and what impact do you think 
these cuts are going to have on veterans and family, not only 
in the crisis line, but in these critical service areas that 
support the work that the VA does to provide life saving care?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Congressman Conaway, thank you very much 
for that question. As we stated earlier, the American Legion, 
we do care about all of our veterans, but we also care that 
they get the proper care in a timely manner that they deserve, 
and we need to continue the peer-to-peer support and making 
sure that they have the right tools that they need with VA 
health care.
    We are aimed and focused on reducing veteran suicide. Every 
suicide matters. We care about that. That is why we have our Be 
The One mission. But to give more definition to your question, 
I am going to turn it over to Director Cole. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you Commander, and thank you Congressman 
for the question. As the Commander stated, suicide is one of 
the American Legion's top priorities with the Be The One 
mission. We at local posts don't hear--we hear often from 
veterans who have been personally affected by this. So it is 
something we are very passionate about.
    I would say in terms of the Veterans Crisis Line, you know, 
we did hear about the two employees that were fired and then 
reinstated two days later. There have been some concerns about 
how some of the Executive orders work in concert with each 
other. For instance, the hiring freeze, VCL crisis responders 
were exempted, but return to work was not exempted, which will 
make it harder for the VA to hire those folks, and they will 
have to potentially take silent monitors, what are called 
silent monitors, and place them as crisis responders.
    So there could be a capacity issue. We have not seen 
anything currently and we are working collaboratively, and we 
will communicate with the department and with your Committees 
about this issue going forward.
    Dr. Conaway. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Bost [presiding]. Thank you. Senator Hassan, you 
are recognized for 3 minutes.

                   HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

    Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to our Chairs and 
Ranking Members, I am grateful for this hearing. And Commander 
and all of your colleagues and all of the veterans in the room, 
welcome. I honor my Dad's World War II service and his memory 
by being a member of the Auxiliary. So thank you for welcoming 
me to that as well.
    [Applause.]
    And any Granite Staters out there? Anybody from New 
Hampshire? Excellent. Thank you and welcome.
    And look, I don't have a question about the recent events 
at the VA. I will just say this: First, the administration 
fired the inspector general at the VA. Then they laid off 2,400 
people. Now we are seeing all of these contract cuts that may, 
in fact, impact essential services to veterans. My job is to 
ask why. And my job as a former Governor is to say you don't 
make indiscriminate cuts. You don't churn employees. You don't 
just do categories of cuts willy-nilly. You study. You look at 
ways you can coordinate and streamline services. And you look 
at the impact before you make this kind of layoff and take 
these kinds of actions. And the inspector general, of course, 
is the person who is charged with going after waste, fraud, and 
abuse, and to fire that person right away is really troubling 
to me. So I hope we will have some more transparency, I hope 
the Secretary will come, and I hope he will explain what they 
have done and why he thinks it is good for the VA and, more 
importantly, good for our veterans.
    Commander, I did want to ask about improving VA facilities. 
I want to start by thanking the American Legion for your 
continued advocacy on behalf of all veterans. In your written 
testimony, you discussed the fact that the VA medical 
facilities are, on average, roughly 60 years old and in need of 
significant repairs. That is something we are very familiar 
with in New Hampshire. The Manchester VA Medical Center is 
almost 75 years old. And twice in the past eight years, pipes 
have burst in the medical center, causing significant damage 
and delay of care for veterans, cancellation of entire 
procedures. I have worked with the VA to help address this 
issue, and I am going to keep doing that. But we all know 
veterans in New Hampshire, veterans around the country deserve 
the best care at the best facilities. They have earned that.
    So, Commander, can you please discuss the need for robust 
commitment to improving VA's infrastructure and how that will 
benefit veterans?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ms. Hassan, thank you very much for the 
question and the statement as well. The American Legion, we do 
truly care about the conditions of our facilities because that 
affects the well and care being for our veterans as patients 
and everything. And that is the reason the American Legion, we 
have the system we are saving. But to give a more defined 
answer, I would like to turn it back over to Director Cole 
again.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you Commander, and thank you Senator for 
the question. Obviously, the infrastructure problem in recent 
years has been exacerbated by community care in the sense that 
more veterans are eligible to receive care in the community 
because the VA can't provide the care in a certain reasonable 
time or distance.
    Preferably, you know, the VA is a one-stop shop for 
veterans, and VA facilities that are in need of modernization 
should be modernized. I think historically the recent 
administrations have submitted budgets to Congress in the 
neighborhood of $2-3 billion dollars for major and minor 
construction infrastructure projects.
    Senator Hassan. Yes.
    Mr. Lyle. And obviously in a budget constrained 
environment, the VA has to make some choices about where that 
occurs. So I think there is definitely room for improvement in 
terms of Congress's commitment to VA infrastructure, 
particularly with codification of access standards.
    Senator Hassan. Thank you very much. And Mr. Chair, I will 
follow up with the witnesses about some issues with C&P exams 
that I know we are all concerned about. Thank you.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Representative Hamadeh.

                       HON. ABE HAMADEH,
                U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARIZONA

    Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And as a member of 
the American Legion Post 107 in Phoenix, Arizona, it is an 
honor to be with all of you here today. And I know you are 
continuing your service by being a voice for so many veterans. 
So thank you all for coming and thank you for all the 
volunteers.
    Now, Commander, President Trump in his last administration 
championed veterans choice in health care and I know it is a 
top priority in his administration right now. But we continue 
to hear stories about veterans facing long wait times and 
denials for community care. How can the VA ensure bureaucrats 
can't arbitrarily deny veterans their right to seek community 
care?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you, Mr. Hamadeh, for that question 
and everything because we do care about the care and well-being 
of our veterans and everything. That is a priority topic for us 
and everything. But for more clarity, I would like to turn it 
over to Director Cole.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you. And I am actually going to defer to my 
chairman, Chairman Jay Bowen.
    Mr. Bowen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Cole, and thank 
you, sir, for the question. We certainly do care about ensuring 
our veterans get the care that they need, when they need it and 
where they need it. That is priority one for the American 
Legion. If that is through community care, that is good as long 
as we have the VA providing the oversight necessary to ensure 
that the standards are kept.
    Mr. Hamadeh. And what are you hearing from veterans about 
their ability to access mental health care in their communities 
under the VA's current approval process?
    Mr. Bowen. We are hearing very good and not so good. It 
just depends on the region of the country and the VA Medical 
Center and the community care area. It is probably like any 
other place and civilian care, too, you can hear very good and 
you can hear very bad. When we hear anything that is not up to 
standards, we certainly investigate, and we work toward getting 
that fixed, working with the VA to get that done.
    Mr. Hamadeh. Right, but it is, you know, veterans should be 
treated well, no matter if they are from the inner cities or 
from the suburban areas or from rural areas. And I think we 
need to make sure that we have a common standard across the 
country. I know that is a top priority for you all. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Now, I recognize a person that 
formerly was in the House and served on our committee in the 
House but now is in the Senate, and he looks really good in the 
Senate, and my neighbor, Representative Banks or Senator Banks, 
I am sorry.

                        HON. JIM BANKS,
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA

    Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to 
be back, and it is an honor to be the first Hoosier to serve on 
the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee in a long time. So I 
spent six years serving with Chairman Bost. Thank you. And I 
want to thank all the Hoosier Legionnaires who are in the room. 
Thank you for coming all the way from Indiana to be a part of 
this hearing. And to all of you, when you come and educate us 
on your priorities, it helps us fight hard to make sure that 
our Nation's heroes get the service that they have earned from 
this country, and your work here today helps us in a big way to 
do that.
    Mr. Commander LaCourseiere, as you know, Indianapolis is 
going to be hosting the National Veterans Creative Arts 
Festival in May. [Applause.] Presented by the American Legion 
and the VA.
    This festival is a great opportunity for veterans to 
showcase their work, and these creative projects are an 
important part of many of our veterans rehabilitation. Can you 
tell us more about the event and the value that it provides?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Banks, thank you very much for 
that question. The Creative Arts Festival is actually a very 
huge highlight. You know, it brings out the best of the best of 
our veterans. They sit back and they use their creativity in 
various facets, whether artistic painting, playing a piano, 
whatever the case may be. It is another form for them of their 
therapy, their therapy that they must need to decompress and 
deal with mental health in various aspects.
    Mental health, as we all know, is a very large scope, and 
if they can sit back and find a way to tunnel it in, in their 
way without using drugs or anything along that scope, because 
we sat back. And years back, we sat back, and we medicated our 
veterans. They came home, they seek mental health assistance, 
they would go to the VA, receive a bottle of pills, and be sent 
home. That is not cutting it. We want our veterans to be able 
to think clearly, but we also want them to survive. They can 
help us grow the economy by being on this side of the earth.
    So, yes, the American Legion's Creative Arts program, to me 
is a very high profile and great program because it is for all 
veterans.
    Senator Banks. Very well put. Indiana is very proud to host 
this event in May, and we thank the American Legion for 
providing that opportunity for our Nation's veterans. I look 
forward to highlighting it. Thank you for choosing Indianapolis 
as the destination for that event in May.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Senator. We now recognize 
Congresswoman Cherfilus-McCormick for 3 minutes.

                HON. SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
                U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA

    Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am 
going to start by echoing the comments that I made yesterday. 
Any cut that has the potential to hurt just one veteran must be 
taken off the table immediately. Our veterans deserve better 
than to be collateral damage from hasty cost-cutting measures 
such as misguided efforts that not only burden American 
taxpayers with greater expenses but also deprive our brave men 
and women of the services that they rightfully deserve. Let's 
prioritize our veterans and ensure that they receive the 
pride--the support, and the help that they have earned.
    For example, to take the Veterans Crisis Line, last week it 
was reported that DOGE fired employees who worked the Veterans 
Crisis Line and then subsequently scrambled to rehire them. In 
fact, a large majority of our Veterans Crisis Line workers are 
in fact veterans themselves who have lost their jobs. This, to 
me, is appalling and ridiculous.
    Mr. LaCourseiere, is firing workers for the Veterans Crisis 
Line in line with your recommendation under the B1 campaign to 
train 100,000 people in suicide prevention?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Ms. McCormick, thank you very much for 
that question. Because we do care about our veterans and 
everything, but I also want to not waste your time, to give you 
a clear answer, I am going to turn that over to Director Cole, 
please.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, 
Congresswoman. There has been a lot of changes very quickly in 
the last month. We are encouraged that all critical essential 
personnel have been exempted. And the VA's four agencies have 
assured us that the exemption policy is very liberal. If a 
supervisor at the VA sees one of their personnel in a mission-
critical position, that they have the ability to go to 
leadership and that position to be exempted.
    I think VHA is 300,000 so far. VCA has 15 occupations 
dealing with families and maintaining cemeteries. Particularly, 
with the Veterans Crisis Line, it is a critically important 
tool for crisis intervention to attack the veteran suicide 
issue. And we have not heard of any direct impacts to veterans 
based on the personnel actions by the administration. But as we 
mentioned earlier, we are closely monitoring those and we will 
work with this Committee and with the VA to ensure that there 
is no direct harm to veterans.
    Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Now, do you believe we should be 
investing more in growing the actual staff to deal with the 
veterans suicide prevention line and to deal with veterans 
health, mental health?
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Congresswoman. Yes, I think the 
Veterans Crisis Line is an important tool in crisis 
intervention. But I think the broader problem of suicide 
prevention, the point of Be The One is to get non-traditional 
approaches, upstream problems solved before the veteran even 
gets to that crisis point. So I think our efforts are focused 
in Be The One and, more broadly, in government policy to ensure 
that the VA is starting to attack those upstream problems like 
financial stress, relationship stress, housing, transportation, 
things like that, before it gets to the point where they need 
to call the veterans crisis line, or they need to go to the 
emergency room for an emergency mental health appointment.
    Ms. Mathis. If I may add to that?
    Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Yes.
    Ms. Mathis. We are also very engaged in growing peer-to-
peer support. And we are also, the American Legion very much 
supports the Fox Grant Program for these alternative methods, 
community based methods to get veterans who are in crisis or 
perhaps maybe just floundering a little bit get connected with 
other veterans who can help put an arm around them and maybe 
bring them back to a little bit safer ground. We are a big fan 
of the veteran-to-veteran and peer-to-peer support. So whatever 
programs that these Committees can support to do that, we will 
do our best on this side to push that out to the greatest reach 
we can get. Thank you.
    Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. Well, thank you 
everyone for your service and for being here. And we are 
committed to make sure we are investing in those programs that 
would help all of our veterans. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Bost. Senator King, you are now recognized for 3 
minutes.

                    HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

    Senator King. Thank you. The first thing I want to do is 
thank everyone for being here. The Legion has never had a more 
important moment than this one to defend our veterans, to 
defend the Veterans Administration, to defend the service that 
is being provided to veterans. We need your voice. Yes, it is 
early in this process. We don't know where it is going. We 
don't know how many more firings there will be. You have got to 
let us know what is going on on the ground. That is a very 
important role that you have.
    And Matthew, I am delighted to see Maine at the table. 
Thank you for being here, sir.
    Let me put this into a little bit of perspective. We know 
we have had 2,400 firings in the last two weeks, but don't 
forget we had a hiring freeze, and with normal attrition, we 
probably lost another 2,000 people. So we are really talking 
about almost 5,000 people out of the VA service. And it bothers 
me when people talk about bureaucrats. They say we are going to 
protect the doctors, and we are going to protect the direct 
service workers. If nobody is there to answer the phone when a 
veteran calls for an appointment, that is a denial of benefits. 
And so, this idea that bureaucrats aren't important really 
galls me.
    And the Secretary the other day said, after all these cuts, 
in fact, veterans are going to notice a change for the better. 
It reminds me of the old country song, ``who are you going to 
believe, me or your own lying eyes?'' I want you to tell us 
what is actually happening. The PACT Act backlog is not going 
to be helped by removing people who are in the service of other 
veterans.
    Now, I do want to talk about transition for a minute. Be 
The One is one of the most important initiatives going on in 
the country right now. Thank you for staffing that, for setting 
it up and for making it actually happen. I have thought----
    [Applause.]
    I have a simple formula for transition. I think the Defense 
Department should spend as much money on transition as they do 
on recruitment.
    [Applause.]
    And one of the things that we are working on here is 
something called the TAP Promotion Act, which would bring VSOs 
into the process of the transition. We have got to have a warm 
handoff. I think you quoted a number, the bulk, not the bulk, 
but a very large percentage of the suicides are in the first 
year or two after transition. That is a place where we really 
need to give some effort.
    Commander, tell me about how important you think transition 
is.
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Mr. King, thank you very much for that 
question. The TAP program is very critical. It is very 
important element in that they get their full 365 days to 
transition and educate themselves on it.
    As we all know, the more knowledge you have, and it gives a 
much better sense of direction on where to go for what you 
need, but it also serves you in the right direction for gainful 
future employment. You know, as we all know, employment, you 
know, also steers you in the right direction for stability with 
your family and it also helps drive the economy forward.
    Too often we sit back, and they don't know where to go for 
assistance when they get out of the military. I am not just 
saying that the second you get out of the military, you need 
assistance, but down the road you may need that assistance. 
They need to be forwarded all the tools and resources where 
they go. You know, they will even get a start in their next 
career, you know, as they take off uniform.
    Senator King. Well, my vision is someone meets you at the 
airport when you come home and says, welcome home. Here is what 
the VA can do for you. Here are the programs. Give me a call if 
you need any help. That is where things like the Be The One 
program can make such a difference.
    Thank you again for what you are doing. Be our eyes and 
ears. Let us know what is happening out there so we can protect 
and defend the most sacred obligation this government has, 
which is to its veterans. Thank you, Commander.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Miller-Meeks.

                 HON. MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS,
                 U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM IOWA

    Dr. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Chairman Bost, for 
holding this meeting. Thank you to all of our witnesses. As a 
24-year military veteran married to a 30-year military veteran 
whose father was Air Force, five of her siblings were either in 
the Army, the Air Force, or the Marines, I thank you all for 
your service and the ability for you all to be here, defend our 
democracy, and allow us to actually have this hearing today on 
what we are doing for our veterans and the debt of gratitude 
that we owe them.
    Let me just ask a question. Are you all glad the kiosks are 
coming back? It is one of the times when people in Washington, 
DC don't listen to their veterans, plan a program, and then 
find out that it backfires on them because what they thought 
was a good idea really wasn't a good idea for the population 
that we serve. I too, I have heard a lot about them. So we are 
glad that the VA has reconsidered.
    Ms. Mathis, let me also thank you for mentioning the Fox 
Grant Program. It is a program that the bill that I am 
sponsoring as chair of the Health Subcommittee. One of those 
things that it is very important and your mentioning of the 
peer-to-peer support, and I say this, we have a quad city 
veterans outreach program in Davenport, Iowa. So these are 
veterans serving veterans or, you know, family members of 
veterans serving veterans, who has done a great job in, you 
know, allowing a platform for veterans to come and just talk to 
other veterans. And I thank you for underscoring the importance 
of that.
    And then Mr. LaCourseiere, you mentioned on suicide 
prevention and how challenging it is. And can you ask or tell 
us, you know, what other things do we need to do in Congress to 
help you all. And did you think it was appropriate? We had a 
Health Subcommittee hearing here and found out that the VA did 
not consider residential mental health care or residential 
substance abuse disorder treatment to fall within the 30-day 
window or 40-mile window of the Mission Act, and so these 
patients were refused. Did you think that is something that 
helps us to deter, you know, suicide and also treat PTSD or 
substance use disorder?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Doctor, thank you very much for that 
question. As we did mention earlier, the American Legion, we 
truly do care about every life of a veteran and the care and 
well-being. Suicide is something that we truly take to heart, 
and we are trying to monitor that. But to give a direct answer 
to you, I would like to turn it over to Director Cole.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. I think in our testimony 
and the American Legion's efforts in Be The One, you know, 
there are several changes. I think the Fox Grant Program is a 
great example of a program that gives resources to local and 
state-level organizations that may not be suicide prevention 
per se, but they help attack those upstream problems, that 
financial assistance that I mentioned earlier. I think programs 
like that. But I also think that, or the American Legion 
thinks, that we should look at suicide prevention just 
differently. Right now the Office of Suicide Prevention is 
housed within the VHA and Mental Health, and the VA says it is 
their number one clinical priority when we know that there are 
a lot of things that the Veterans Benefits Administration that 
directly touch on a veteran's spiral to a crisis point. So 
there are several recommendations that we have. We are happy to 
follow up and work with your office to address this problem.
    Dr. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. I know my time has 
expired, but let me just say I thank all of the VSOs and all of 
you here for being our eyes and ears on the ground, and the 
number of lives you have saved from suicide among our veterans 
is uncounted and unknown. So thank you very much. I yield back.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Dexter.

                      HON. MAXINE DEXTER,
                U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM OREGON

    Dr. Dexter. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, 
and to the Ranking Members for convening this important 
hearing. Thank you to our witnesses for being here and for 
continuing to advocate for our veterans. I echo my colleagues 
words of how important it is right now in this moment that we 
hear from you. And just as a physician who served in the VA and 
took care of patients in the VA for years, I am deeply grateful 
for the work that you are continuing to do.
    Last Congress, thanks to your tireless advocacy, The 
Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and 
Benefits Improvement Act was passed. A major step forward on 
many fronts, including in tackling veteran homelessness. Over 
the past 15 years, federal investments have cut veteran 
homelessness in half, but our work clearly isn't done. Last 
year, nearly 34,000 veterans in the U.S., including more than 
1,400 in my home State of Oregon, were still without a home. 
Just last week, I held a roundtable with veterans, VA 
leadership, and advocates in Oregon, and effectively addressing 
houselessness, and mental health are their two top priorities. 
The Dole Act increased per diem rates for transitional housing 
and ensured the VA could provide basic necessities like food, 
transportation, and hygiene products for our unhoused veterans. 
These are essential life-saving provisions, yet Congress has 
failed to fund them.
    Commander LaCourseiere, can you speak to how impactful it 
would be to fully fund the Dole Act programs for veterans 
experiencing homelessness?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Doctor, thank you very much for that 
question and everything. And yes, the American Legion, we are 
ecstatic to see the Dole Act get across the hurdle and 
everything.
    When it comes to veteran homelessness, we care about 
veteran homelessness as much as we do about veteran suicide. 
But veteran and homelessness are two words that should never 
ever be used in the same sentence. [Applause.] You are talking 
about the troops that protected and served for this country. 
And almost every veteran that ever served this country will 
continue serving the country even after they take the uniform 
off. So, we are trying to do everything we can to help reduce--
well, let me take that word back, to eliminate veteran 
homelessness.
    Dr. Dexter. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. LaCoursiere. And yes, we will do anything we can to 
work with your Committees and work with Congress. And like I 
said in my testimony remarks, we are here to work with 
Congress. Thank you.
    Dr. Dexter. Thank you so much, Commander. And I couldn't 
agree more. And that is exactly the sentiment I heard back in 
Oregon, that we must end veteran homelessness. So, we have a 
bipartisan majority who are in agreement that these programs 
are necessary. We passed the bill. But we still haven't found 
the impetus and the prioritization successfully to actually 
fund it. And that is unacceptable. We must agree that housing 
is a fundamental right. As you said, no veteran who has served 
this country should ever be at threat of being houseless. So, I 
hope that my colleagues can stand with us to make sure that we 
end this and prioritize our veterans over, potentially, 
taxpayer or tax breaks for millionaires. We have the resources, 
we just need the political will.
    Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. We now recognize the Senator from 
Illinois, Senator Duckworth.

                     HON. TAMMY DUCKWORTH, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS

    Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When my 
colleagues and I passed a PACT Act in 2022, we helped create 
the largest expansion of veterans' benefits in decades. I 
remember when I was State Director of Veterans Affairs and I 
had just been appointed in that position and I had one of the 
pilots that was a Vietnam pilot, Vietnam veteran who was dying 
from Agent Orange related exposure. And I did everything I can 
to try to get him his benefits. This was a man who used to give 
me checkrides and terrified me because the pilots, the Huey 
pilots that got back from Vietnam, they knew what they were 
doing. And they didn't take guff from those young bucks. And he 
used to terrify me, annually, when he would give me my 
checkrides.
    But I remember trying so hard to get him his benefits and 
he ended up dying before he received his benefits. We were able 
to get benefits to his spouse. But it were not for you, if it 
were not for VSOs fighting for Vietnam veterans, we would never 
have passed the presumptive conditions that then set the stage 
for the PACT Act. So I just want to tell you how critically 
that fight was for over 40 years. And the key to that is that 
with the PACT Act we think we are adding benefits now. We think 
we know what those conditions are now. But I am going to tell 
you that some of these conditions are going to take 20, 30, 40 
years to manifest themselves, like they did with Agent Orange 
exposure. It is going to take a while for neurological 
conditions. It is going to take a while for some of this. It 
may be 20, 30 years after exposure before the veterans are 
showing signs of their toxic exposure. So, that is why it is so 
critically important and we get veterans enrolled and get them 
into the system.
    I remember flying into Baghdad and we two pilots would take 
turns holding our breath because that scuzz layer of polluted 
air above Baghdad was so toxic it would burn my lungs, and we 
would actually, our eyes would water coming in for a landing. I 
remember thinking, man, those poor suckers down there, what are 
they living under. But then I lived in Balad, downwind from the 
burn pits.
    And so, I am here because you have always been at the 
forefront, forcing this Nation to live up to our promises to 
veterans. But I will tell you that right now, President Trump 
and Elon Musk firing all of these Veterans Affairs employees is 
not helping the case. And I know the Secretary of Veterans 
Affairs came out and said that no vital employees were fired. I 
personally took care of two Veterans Crisis Hotline employees 
who were fired and worked hard to get them reinstated. They 
were fired on Valentine's Day. These are people who were 
answering the phones.
    And now I just heard another case yesterday of another 
crisis line employee who was fired. This was a supervisor, 
somebody who did a good job and was promoted to help train 
other crisis hotline employees. And because of that, they are 
probationary in that new position. So they were just fired. We 
cannot let that happen.
    Mr. LaCourseiere. Did I say that correctly? Commander. That 
is way better [laughter]. Commander, in your assessment how 
would the firing of so many employees from the VA affect your 
members?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Duckworth, thank you very much for 
that question and the details you just laid out before us. I 
would like to turn this over to our Director, Cole.
    Senator Duckworth. Sure. Of course.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. And thank you, Senator, 
good to see you again.
    Senator Duckworth. Yes.
    Mr. Lyle. I think there has been a lot happening recently. 
I think every few days we are learning about something new and 
trying to determine how it will potentially impact veterans and 
have any negative impact, so that we can assist this Committee 
and the VA in mitigating those impacts to veterans, 
specifically with the Veterans Crisis Line or other critical 
mission essential to make sure the veterans are getting the 
care they need when they need it.
    We were encouraged about the number of exemptions that the 
VA announced for the VHA, the VBA, and the Board of Veteran 
Appeals. We have also been told by career officials at the VA, 
not politicals, that they were happy with what they called a 
liberal exemption policy. And we will continue to work with you 
and Legionnaires on the ground to identify those potential 
impacts and bring them to you and the VA as soon as possible.
    Senator Duckworth. I would appreciate that. And I would ask 
all of your members, if you know of cases, to bring them to me. 
Because as I said, I have personally been involved in at least 
three, and I have the receipts, because I have the letters that 
they received, and these are people answering the phones when a 
veteran calls. That Crisis Hotline has a 9 second response rate 
and that is critically important.
    And Commander LaCourseiere, what I actually say about 
homeless veterans is anytime a veteran has laid down his head 
on the streets that he has defended, we are all dishonored. 
Thank you for your assignment.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Bost. Congressman McGarvey, you are recognized for 
3 minutes.

                     HON. MORGAN MCGARVEY,
               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM KENTUCKY

    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you 
all for being here today. We are seeing drastic massive cuts 
right now at the VA. 1400 people fired this week. The VFW has 
spoken out against. Policymakers have spoken out against it. 
Our veterans are speaking out against it. Because of the feared 
impact that it is having on services we must be providing the 
men and women who served us.
    Just last night I had a telephone town hall. A gentleman 
named Alan called in, served in the Army. He was at the VA 
getting health care. And one of the things he told me about, he 
said the people here are scared. Morale is down. They don't 
know if they are going to have their jobs. We made a promise to 
take care of our veterans. We have to fulfill that promise. I 
want to make sure we do. We will not back down on this 
Committee.
    I want to ask you guys a few questions related to the 
workforce of the VA. Commander, do you have numbers on how many 
veterans work in the VA?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Mr. McGarvey, thank you very much for that 
question. I want to turn--I believe it is approximately 400,000 
but I want to turn that over--I want you to have the honest 
answer. I will turn it over to Director Cole.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander and thank you, sir. I don't 
have a specific exact number that I can give you right now, but 
I believe it is in the neighborhood of 360,000.
    Mr. McGarvey. Amazing. And do you know what percentage that 
is of VA's workforce?
    Mr. Lyle. VA's total workforce is 469,000 employees. That 
has increased from, I believe, about 49,000 in FY01, so a 
significant increase.
    Mr. McGarvey. So, a huge percentage of veterans working at 
the VA?
    Mr. Lyle. Yep.
    Mr. McGarvey. We have not been able to track down a solid 
number for how many veterans have lost their jobs in these mass 
firings. Do you guys have that number?
    Mr. Lyle. We do not, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. Okay. How many military spouses have lost 
their jobs in these firings? We haven't been able to track that 
down either.
    Mr. Lyle. No, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. Right. And part of the reason we don't know 
this is because of how this was done. There was no impact 
analysis done before they laid off all these people. No impact 
of how impact our service members currently, with their 
military spouses, our veterans and the people we are supposed 
to serve.
    We have got 30 seconds left. I told you about what I am 
hearing from our veterans in Louisville, Kentucky. What are you 
all hearing from your members about the impact this is going to 
have?
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, sir. I will just go ahead and follow 
up. I think the lack of clarity, which we did discuss with the 
Secretary in our meeting yesterday, and with VA officials on 
Monday, from all four administrations, that we would, we need 
more clarity on who specifically is being impacted, and we 
encourage them to proactively message with us, the Committees, 
and veterans in the country, about those impacts. But as of 
now, we don't have that information.
    Mr. McGarvey. That was a very nice way to say that we are 
afraid this might be screwing our veterans. Let us know, we are 
going to keep that from happening. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Senator King. Congressman, we had five--seven people fired 
at our Veterans Hospital in Maine yesterday. Five of the seven 
were veterans. So, be clear. When you hear a thousand people 
laid off, three or four hundred of those are veterans.
    Chairman Bost. Representative Morrison.

                      HON. KELLY MORRISON,
               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM MINNESOTA

    Dr. Morrison. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I began my remarks 
yesterday by expressing my grave concern about the ongoing 
assault on the civil service of VA employees. Shortly after 
yesterday's hearing I learned that these mass firings hit 
Minneapolis VA, which serves over 100,000 veterans in the Twin 
Cities and surrounding areas. We are talking about public 
servants with records of strong job performance, many of whom 
are vets themselves, who now find themselves out of a job, all 
without notice or cause. Many of the VA employees who were just 
laid off in Minneapolis are veterans themselves, men and women 
who made the honorable decision to serve their fellow vets even 
after they completed their own military service. I find it hard 
to believe that these mass firings won't affect the care and 
services that our veterans have earned.
    Commander, I am grateful to you and your fellow 
Legionnaires for being here today. I was honored to meet with a 
strong delegation from Minnesota yesterday. I am grateful to 
them for traveling on this way to the Halls of Congress. I want 
to thank you for sharing your stories and your advocacy on 
behalf of your fellow veterans. Last year, Hennepin County, 
which is Minnesota's largest county by population, achieved 
functional zero status for veterans' homelessness. I am 
incredibly proud of my home community for making such 
significant strides. [Applause.] Thank you. That does deserve a 
round of applause. I am really proud of my home community for 
making such significant strides and caring for our veterans. 
And it gives me hope that Minnesota can be a model for the 
whole country in the fight to end veteran homelessness.
    Commander, I am wondering how federal investments in 
housing and other wraparound services will help to fight the 
veteran homelessness crisis?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Dr. Morrison, thank you very much for that 
question. Increasing the number of HUD-VASH vouchers that are 
made available and working with the SSVF, that alone can impact 
and reduce our veteran homelessness, and also give them the 
peace of mind that the government is actually working with 
them. What I found, I myself, I am going to share a personal, 
very quick, and I will make it quick. Outside of the American 
Legion, I am currently on years leave of absence, but when I 
return back to Connecticut after my year, I go back to working 
for the Soldiers', Sailors', and Marines' Fund, which is a fund 
that the American Legion handles for the State of Connecticut, 
which is temporary financial assistance.
    And what we find out, traditionally, toward the latter part 
of the year in the fall time, which is a critical time of the 
year, now we are starting to fall short on the availability of 
the HUD-VASH vouchers and everything.
    So, in my opinion, to answer your questions directly, if 
there is a way we can increase, maybe based on veteran 
population, you know, on the states and everything.
    Dr. Morrison. Thank you, that is helpful. Just really 
quickly, I was excited to see in your testimony you made 
reference to the outstanding work happening at VA Vets Centers. 
As you know, they provide a variety of counseling and 
transitional services, but in a more relaxed, less clinical 
environment. There is a Vet Center in my district in Anoka, 
Minnesota and I hope that we can expand these services across 
our entire state. Can you share, just briefly, your perspective 
about why Vet Centers' community-based approach to support 
services is so successful?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Again, Dr. Morrison, thank you very much 
for that question. Right away, I am going to turn that over to 
our Chairman of Veterans Department of Education, Matt Jabaut.
    Mr. Jabaut. Sorry, could you repeat the question?
    Dr. Morrison. Of course. Just how the importance of Vet 
Centers and why their community-based approach to support 
services is so successful?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. I am sorry about that, Dr. Morrison, my 
mistake. I was looking at the wrong chairman. I am going to 
turn that over to our Chairman, Jay Bowen.
    Mr. Bowen. Thank you, Commander. And thank you, ma'am, for 
the question. We do appreciate it. As you stated, the Vet 
Centers are critical to veterans' care because they do operate 
in a more relaxed environment. And once you put the veteran in 
a relaxed environment, they are more apt and more likely to 
then open up and talk about the issues that they have. And once 
they talk about the issues and it gets out on the table, then 
we can identify a fix.
    Dr. Morrison. Thank you so much. Before I finish, I just 
want to say, as the wife of an Army combat veteran and a proud 
American, I want to thank every one of you in this room for 
your service.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman Bost. So, I will apologize that I had to leave at 
the beginning. I normally ask questions first. But we didn't 
save the best for last, but I am going to be the one to ask the 
last questions, if that is all right.
    [Laughter.]
    Commander, look, you know, I am very grateful for the 
American Legion's past support of my bill, H.R. 1041. Now, that 
is the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. Is the 
legislation something that the American Legion will continue to 
support?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Bost, thank you very much for 
that question. The American Legion, we have and we always will 
stand by the Constitution of the United States of America.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman Bost. Thank you for that. So, one other bill I 
have got out there is H.R. 740, the Veterans' ACCESS Act of 
2025, which expands access to community care. Can you explain 
why the veterans need access to community care?
    Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Bost, I am going to turn that 
question over to Director Cole.
    Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander and thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
I think over the years since the Phoenix wait list scandal in 
2014, and then the passage of the Veterans Choice Act, and the 
passage of the MISSION Act, community care has expanded because 
more veterans have become eligible under the regulatory 
guidance to be able to get an appointment within a certain time 
or distance. In a lot of areas, the VA is unable to provide 
that care in-house. We have seen credible evidence of VA 
administrators at the VISN and the VAMC level basically 
disregard some of those access standards, and canceling 
appointments or canceling existing referrals, shortening the 
timeline of authorization. So the ACCESS Act, the codification 
of access standards, would take the VA's ability to do that 
out, if the veteran and their provider decide it is in their 
best medical interest to go seek care in the community. So 
that, number one. But number two, the very important provision 
is oftentimes we hear from veterans across the country that, 
you know, they are happy with the care that they get at VA, 
they are happy with the quality, they are happy with the care 
they get at their community provider. They are frustrated with 
the referral process, and the scheduling process, and the 
hurdles they have to overcome, and the communication between 
those community providers. So, the second important provision 
in that bill would seek to streamline the scheduling process, 
which is why we reviewed it and supported it.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Thank you. Real quickly, 
Commander, before my time runs out here and we do go to our 
closing, I just want to let you know that I know you brought up 
the TAP programs. Remember, I am a veteran that left the Marine 
Corps in 1983. Back then, we did get a TAP. It was a tap from 
the colonel saying, hey, nice to see you, thank you for your 
service [laughter]. But we are on our Committee wanting to work 
very closely with HASC, with the--because it is under DoD's 
control, the scheduling, but we need to get that coordinated. 
And the sad thing is, is that like a VA, if you have seen one 
TAP program, you have seen one TAP program. They need to be 
uniform. We need to be able to get the information to our 
veterans so as they separate that they know what is available 
to them for every issue, but mostly so that they know what 
mental health issues are available to them so that we don't 
lose them in being part of that. Whether it is 17 or 21 or 
whatever that number is, one is too many with veteran suicide. 
So we make that commitment. We will be working on that with 
you.
    [Applause.]
    So with that, I now want to recognize the Ranking Member, 
Mr. Takano, for his closing statement.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the ACCESS 
Act, I just want to say that it does nothing to enhance the 
shortage and understaffing at the community care coordination 
offices among the many, many VMACs across the country. And part 
of the bottleneck with the referral process is the 
understaffing of those offices. And I don't know that they were 
exempt from the firing or the freeze that your organization 
inquired about with senior career officials. What I am troubled 
by is the acceptance from these career officials, these career 
officials, about the whole policy. Was the question asked, was 
there an analysis performed not only about the impact about the 
necessity for these firings? What was the purpose of these 
firings? Waste, fraud, and abuse is bandied about as a 
justification, but where is the justification prior to these 
firings? It seems to me they occurred willy-nilly and 
indiscriminately. And the evidence is in the many, many people, 
many veterans that have answered our survey about, and VA 
employees generally who have replied to our survey. And I would 
urge that a similar survey be done by your own organization 
about the veterans who have been fired. I would assert that 
there is no credible justification. Waste, fraud, and abuse is 
just an excuse that has been put out there. In fact, the very 
people who are responsible for waste, fraud, and abuse 
investigations were the first people fired by this 
administration. They fired the Inspector General who has held 
tough investigations against both Republican and Democratic 
inspector generals. I have just reviewed some reports from the 
inspector general on President Biden that were not--President 
Biden's VA Secretary that were not very flattering. So, it is 
not credible to me that waste, fraud, and abuse motivated these 
mass firings at VA.
    Now, Mr. Chairman, before we just--before I end, I wanted 
to say I would like to share something. Yesterday and today you 
have accused my Democratic colleagues and me of fear mongering 
and you say that we are not aware--that you are not aware of 
any direct effects on patient care due to VA's reckless firing 
of 2400 employees and counting. Well, you have repeatedly 
invited folks to share examples with you, so I would like to 
share one with you now.
    On Monday, two clinicians who performed mental health 
intake at the Cleveland VA Medical Center were dismissed. This 
is already wreaking havoc on patient care and patient safety at 
that facility. Additionally, prosthetics and supply chain staff 
have been fired. This directly affects patient care because 
these employees play a critical role in procuring the medical 
devices veterans need and equipping surgical suites with 
necessary supplies. I met with this particular employee, fired 
employee yesterday. They were in attendance at the hearing. And 
they also indicated that it could mean that veterans who need 
prosthetics could be--the supply for them could be delayed.
    Now, this is a very urgent matter and I don't think we can 
sit around and pretend to believe senior officials who are 
under duress by the senior leadership who tell you, oh, they 
are comfortable with the exemptions and that should be accepted 
at face value. There is prima facie evidence I am presenting to 
you now that you should face that with skepticism.
    I will not stop talking about these mass firings until I 
get answers. Until I get answers. And so far, there are no 
answers. And everything that Senator Tillis brought up, the 
information is not forthcoming. It is not forthcoming.
    Mr. Chairman, will you commit to us that we get from VA the 
details of these firings to ensure, as you have repeatedly 
claimed, that these firings will not affect patient care? 
Because my staff and I are already hearing about such 
instances. And I hope that we will have a hearing about these 
firings, specifically.
    Chairman Bost. We will take it under advisement. Let me----
    Mr. Takano. I don't hear a commitment.
    Chairman Bost. I will take it under advisement. I have 
actually been meeting with the Secretary. Know what the 
conversations have been. Also know that each person has been 
let go, in their letter, it says that they can appeal to their 
supervisor immediately to find out if that there are--and then 
I would ask those who have come before you. I mean, you have 
all stuck on your talking points very, very, very well, and I 
appreciate that. But that being said, to say there is not 
waste, fraud, and abuse in the Agency----
    Senator King. I don't do talking points Mr. Chairman. That 
is an insult. Finish saying what I said.
    Chairman Bost. Well, I apologize if you feel it is an 
insult, Senator, because I am going to tell you something. I 
have listened to it over and over again. We are 20 days into--
we are one month into this administration that sent a clear 
message to try to cure the problems that exist in government 
today. Even the former administration admitted that they over-
hired after COVID. Now, we need to make sure that we are 
streamlining, doing the job that is necessary. And we do have 
the commitment from the Secretary that no one's services are 
going to be lost. You as VSOs, please come forward to me and 
tell me if those are done. You obviously mentioned that you met 
with the Secretary yesterday. As this goes on, we are one month 
into this. I appreciate that you have an opportunity to argue 
the political point. I am telling you that I will stand for 
veterans like I always have. I will continue to stand for 
veterans. I have always stood for veterans.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, I do not hear you. I do not hear 
you saying you will commit to----
    Chairman Bost. And I have just told you we will take it 
under advisement, Mr. Ranking Member.
    Mr. Takano. You will take it under advisement. Will we not 
hold a hearing on 14,000, 2400 people who were fired?
    Chairman Bost. We are one month into this and I don't know 
which things to admit to because as of yet, we are still 
studying it ourselves. And so, with that, I will tell you that 
I will take it under advisement and my position as Chair, I 
will do that. You don't need to tell me how to take my position 
as Chair. I didn't do that when you were Chair. And I don't 
appreciate it in front of this group, you doing it now.
    So, let me explain this to you. It is amazing to me that 
during this time you are bringing up this, but when we had 
sexual situations occurring in our VA where they were running a 
sex room, you said nothing about firing those. When we had 
superintendent----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Bost.--When we had----
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Bost. No. Now, I am going now, thank you.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, you held a hearing. I advised you 
to allow the internal investigations to proceed with the 
internal, with the internal----
    Chairman Bost. We----
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. With the Inspector General.
    Chairman Bost. We have one other that we did a hearing on.
    Mr. Takano. I did not subpoena----
    Chairman Bost. And you did not bring up.
    Mr. Takano. I did not subpoena one single official when I 
was Chairman, when, when President Trump was a President, you 
issued several subpoenas.
    Chairman Bost. You are doggone right I did, because the 
people need to know.
    Mr. Takano. Well, I think the people need to understand why 
2400----
    Chairman Bost. And its administration----
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. Individuals who were fired, 24,000 
people were fired.
    Chairman Bost.--And this administration has been answering 
those questions----
    Mr. Takano. They have----
    Chairman Bost.--Not only----
    Mr. Takano. They have not provided a single bit of 
information about why----
    Chairman Bost. There has been.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. They were fired. Why the 
justification----
    Chairman Bost. And when you put up the, when you put up the 
letter yesterday, you put half the letter up. You did not put 
the response, where the opportunity for the employee to do the 
appeals process. So I understand that you are concerned. I am 
glad that you have got the platform. You are doing a great job 
of grabbing hold of that platform. My job is to make sure our 
veterans are taken care of, as it is yours. And we are going to 
do that.
    Mr. Takano. Well, please hold a hearing. That is all I am 
asking you to do.
    Chairman Bost. I understand that. With that, welcome to the 
VA Committee that is so bipartisan [laughter]. Look, I want to 
thank the American Legion and all the witnesses for being here 
today. We share your values. And I want to thank the audience 
members for coming in from every corner of this United States 
to be here today. Let me tell you for purposes when this panel 
is excused, if you would, because we know this room so well, 
all right. If you could go out that door while we are bringing 
the new panel in because it just kind of helps the flow.
    Commander, I do want to say thank you. I do want to say to 
thank you to each one of you and all my other, all thank you 
legionnaires, and I thank you that I am part of your 
organization. It has been a pleasure to serve you and will be 
continued to serve you, and we will work through any of the 
issues as they come forward. Thank you so much. You are 
excused.
    [Applause.]
    [Recess.]
    Chairman Bost. Take your seats. We would like to welcome 
the second panel and thank you for being here. We have a lot of 
important organizations to hear from on this panel, so let us 
get right to it. Today we are joined by Major Gary Ginsburg of 
the Jewish War Veterans, Lindsay Church of the Minority 
Veterans of America, Mr. Michael McLaughlin of the National 
Association of County Veterans Service Officers, Commander Rene 
Campos of the Military Officers Association of America, Mr. 
Timothy Sheppard of the National Association of the State 
Directors of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Raymond Toenniessen of 
D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families, 
Syracuse University, and Lieutenant General Walter Piatt of 
Wounded Warrior Project. Again, welcome to all of you and also 
to the members of the audience.
    So let us get started. Sergeant Major Ginsburg, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

                            PANEL II

                              ----------                              


            STATEMENT OF GARY GINSBURG, (USA-RET.),
       NATIONAL COMMANDER, JEWISH WAR VETERANS OF THE USA

    Mr. Ginsburg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Moran, 
Chairman Bost, Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, Members 
of the House and Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, and my 
fellow veterans, ladies and gentlemen, I am Gary Ginsberg, 
United States Army Reserve Command Sergeant Major. In the 93rd 
National Commander of the Jewish War Veterans of the United 
States, our mission is clear, to support America's 17 million 
veterans and family members, regardless of race, religion, or 
gender. We have a Jewish War Veterans organization because 
quite frankly, we might be the only veterans' organization 
whose loyalty to this country is sometimes questioned. We 
remain opposed to hatred, bigotry, and antisemitism, wherever 
the source, whomever the target.
    Our leadership was pleased to meet with the Chairman last 
year and some issues are still being addressed. We urge the 
Committee to help slay the dragon of hatred, bigotry, and 
antisemitism with executive branch oversight, with a little bit 
of education, training and prevention.
    Recently, I have become aware of another issue affecting 
veterans. The JWV is concerned about food insecurity amongst 
American veterans. Research shows that about 8 percent of our 
veterans right now, over 1 million persons, are food insecure. 
We urge Congress to look at this and exercise appropriate 
oversight. We also recognize that right now veterans are facing 
challenges with employment this year. Veterans are an asset to 
our Nation and serve in many capacities, often inspiring the 
next generation of young men and women to step forward and wear 
the cloth of our Nation.
    We are concerned about some of the cutbacks in staffing, 
although we know it is still early in the administration. We 
think that some of this is very hasty. We think that cutbacks 
should be more precise and quite frankly, maybe the train needs 
to slow down just a little bit. We encourage, again, 
congressional oversight with respect to this situation because 
veterans are about 30 percent of the VA and some of the 
veterans are being affected with the staffing cutbacks. The 
JWV, the Jewish War Veterans, we have long supported the Major 
Richard Star Act and we urge swift passage because now is the 
time. Now is the time to address the unfair pay offset facing 
almost 45,000 combat-injured veterans to receive their 
appropriate DoD retirement pay and VA disability compensation.
    We also are concerned about veteran suicide in the current 
trends. We know about 20 or 22 veterans a day commit suicide, 
but in fact veterans are roughly 6 percent of our Nation. They 
comprise approximately 15 percent of the suicide cases in 
recent years.
    Recently we have learned about a new bill introduced into 
the current session of the House, H.R. 439. While we are still 
reviewing the details, it is entitled the Veterans Foreign 
Medical Coverage Equality and Modernization Act of 2025. The 
JWV, the Jewish War Veterans, urges the Committee to review 
this legislation quickly and take appropriate action concerning 
our service-connected disability veterans who reside overseas. 
We probably have American citizens who reside in virtually 24 
time zones around the world, and I know we have many veterans 
that reside overseas. We have some of our own members, for 
example, that reside in Israel, and we want to see them receive 
the appropriate support as they served honorably in defense of 
this Nation.
    The JWB is also concerned about women veterans and some of 
the unique situations there. They are the fastest growing group 
of veterans in the VA system. We support addressing some of the 
specialized health care with respect to our women veterans, 
whether it has increasing cancer screenings, improving mental 
health, accessing infertility assistance, and of course, 
reducing intimate partner violence. We urge the VA to fully 
implement all portions of the Deborah Sampson Act.
    As I get to my concluding remarks, I am reminded, in 1945, 
following the battle of Iwo Jima, a Navy chaplain, Roland 
Gittelsohn, offered a statement during the memorial service for 
the Marines that fell at Iwo Jima. That bipartisan spirit is 
necessary today.
    I also urge the Committee going forward, every decision you 
make, please consider it as if it was your own son or daughter, 
family member, or best friend. At this time, I thank you for 
the opportunity to testify before the Joint Committee of the 
House and the Senate. I thank you very much. And that concludes 
my comments. I look forward to any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ginsburg appears on page 82 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Sergeant Major. I would now like 
to recognize Lindsay Church for her 5 minutes for opening 
statement.
    [Microphone off.]
    Ms. Church [turns microphone on]. Sorry.
    Chairman Bost. Microphone. There you go.

STATEMENT OF LINDSAY CHURCH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER, 
                  MINORITY VETERANS OF AMERICA

    Ms. Church. I am still learning. Chairman Moran and Bost, 
Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, and Members of the 
Committees. I sit before you today as the voice of millions. 
Millions of veterans who have served this country with honor, 
only to be met with indifference, discrimination, and systemic 
barriers when they hung up their uniforms. Veterans who, 
despite their sacrifice, find themselves battling for the most 
basic of rights, health care that meets their needs, a roof 
over their heads, and the dignity to live free from political 
attacks on their very existence. I also sit before you as a 
third generation Navy veteran and a proud transgender American. 
My family has dedicated their lives to service in and out of 
uniform. I brought them with me today in the form of dog tags. 
We have fought across generations for an America that is barely 
recognizable. The state of veterans' services in this country 
is imperiled. We are watching the gutting of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs, an institution that is supposed to be the 
backbone of veteran care. Thousands of VA employees, many of 
them veterans themselves, have been indiscriminately fired 
overnight, jeopardizing the quality and accessibility of care 
for millions. Veterans are being turned into collateral damage 
in a war of political posturing. This is not governance. This 
is negligence at best, willful cruelty at worst. Our community 
is under attack. Minority veterans, those who are Black, 
indigenous, veterans of color, women, LGBTQIA, religious 
minorities, immigrants, disabled, are being told through policy 
and practice that our service, our sacrifices, and our lives do 
not matter.
    Executive orders and legislation are being wielded as 
weapons to strip away our rights. Critical health care is being 
gutted. Gender affirming care, reproductive health services, 
and mental health support are being dismantled under the guise 
of government efficiency. And let us not pretend this is about 
efficiency. This is about erasure. We refuse to be erased.
    [Applause.]
    Minority veterans have fought and sacrificed for this 
country, often serving in times when we were denied full rights 
and recognition. It is our Nation's duty to uphold their rights 
and ensure we have access to health care, benefits, housing, 
employment opportunities, and protections against 
discrimination. Gutting the very institutions designed to 
support veterans will only widen existing disparities and push 
more people into crisis.
    So, today I asked the Committee, will you continue to allow 
veterans to be used as pawns in a game we never signed up to 
play? Or will you fight for us the way we fought for this 
country? We are not here to beg. We are here because the stakes 
are life and death. We are calling on Congress to act boldly 
and decisively. Reinstate VA staff and protect its workforce. 
Stop the rollback of critical health care services. Ensure that 
every veteran, regardless of their identity, has a safe place 
to call home. Fund programs that actually prevent suicide 
rather than just offering lip service while cutting the very 
services that save our lives.
    All veterans swore an oath to the Constitution of this 
great Nation. And in return, this Nation made a promise to its 
veterans. That promise doesn't come with an asterisk. It does 
not come with conditions, and it does not disappear when it 
becomes inconvenient. We are here to make sure you keep it. 
Thank you.
    [Applause.]

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Church appears on page 98 of 
the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Thank you. We would now like to 
recognize Mr. McLaughlin for 5 minutes for your opening 
statement.

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL MCLAUGHLIN, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL 
        ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS

    Mr. McLaughlin. Thank you. Chairman Bost, Moran, Ranking 
Members Takano and Blumenthal, and distinguished Members of the 
Committee. On behalf of the National Association of County 
Veterans Service Officers, or NACVSO, I extend our deepest 
gratitude for the opportunity to address this session. As you 
are aware, NACVSO is a unique organization in that all of our 
leadership work as accredited VA representatives, advocating 
for veterans and their dependents in their local communities. 
We comprise the VA's biggest local partner resource as 
Governmental Veteran Service Officers, or GVSOs, that helps 
ensure as a Nation we continue to care for those who have 
served. We understand the veterans experience as well as how to 
better support the VA. Furthermore, our members are often the 
first point of contact for your very own congressional offices 
as you assist your veteran constituents. It is through this 
lens that I offer this testimony in hopes that together we may 
better support our Nation's veterans.
    NACVSO wishes to express our gratitude for the passage of 
The Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and 
Benefits Improvement Act. This legislation includes several 
provisions aimed at improving services for veterans and their 
families. Notably, Section 302, the Commitment to Veteran 
Support and Outreach Act, or CVSO Act marks a historic first 
step in providing funding for local GVSOs. This acknowledges 
what NACVSO has long known, that delivering veteran services is 
most effective when it collaborates with experts at the local 
community level.
    While we appreciate this progress, funding alone isn't 
enough. Stronger partnerships between the VA and local 
advocates remains essential. One immediate step would be to 
ensure that the Veterans Benefits Improvement Act of 2024, 
Section 4, is completed expeditiously. This report can serve as 
a roadmap for transforming veteran services into a combined 
arms effort by mobilizing all levels of government to meet the 
needs of veterans efficiently and effectively.
    As VA accredited representatives, our members work 
tirelessly to help veterans submit the best claims possible. 
However, there have been growing concerns about the over 
development of disability claims, an issue that delays 
decisions and wastes taxpayer dollars through the unnecessary 
scheduling of disability exams. We appreciate that VA 
leadership has engaged with stakeholders on this. We recognize 
that these challenges stem from many complex issues and is not 
intentionally done by VA. We encourage this body to amend how 
VA is required to implement Toxic Exposure Risk Activities or 
TERA exams. For example, by ensuring that when a veteran has a 
confirmed TERA, it does not automatically trigger an 
unnecessary TERA examination while other forms of service-
connection are obvious. VA can reduce expenses while also 
streamlining a favorable outcome for the veteran.
    Similarly, we urge greater adherence to the Fully Developed 
Claim or FDC process which is designed to improve efficiency 
and reduce the number of exams. NACVSO stands ready to work 
with VA and this body to improve TERA and restore the FDC 
process to ensure that claims and decisions are timely, 
accurate, and fiscally responsible.
    While it is not immediately an issue before this body, 
NACVSO would like to publicly oppose any future policy or 
legislation that would seek to means test a VA disability. A 
veteran service-connected is not tied exclusively to economic 
impediments, but also considers social and familial 
impairments. I am a veteran and the proud son of a Vietnam 
veteran who was severely wounded during the Tet Offensive. 
Those wounds led to the amputation of his leg. With prosthetics 
provided by the VA, my father was able to find and secure 
employment, all while waging daily battles to prepare himself 
physically and mentally for work each day. An economic means 
test would have penalized him for his decision to seek 
employment. My father and many other veterans paid the price 
for their country every day, and this price continues. What 
cost can we assign to my father's inability to teach his 
daughter how to swim or ride a bike? Can we name the price for 
his 6-year-old son knowing what phantom pains are for a leg 
that no longer exists?
    In addition to incentivizing veterans to seek vocational 
rehabilitation, any policy intending to means test these 
disabilities disregards the true price that veterans and their 
families have paid, a price they will pay for the rest of their 
lives. Such means testing would break our country's sacred 
promise and shatter President Lincoln's commitment to care for 
him who shall have borne the battle, his widow, or his orphan, 
which is why NACVSO stands firmly against any such future 
proposals.
    Lastly, NACVSO asks this body to continue working alongside 
VA to prevent and hold accountable claims consultants who 
continue for-profit representation of initial VA claims. We 
believe that no person who has taken the oath of service to 
this country should ever have to leverage their earned benefits 
to simply gain access to those benefits. As such, we humbly 
implore this body to look at every means possible to provide 
agency reform and increased support for pro bono access to 
these services.
    Chairman, Ranking Members, and Members of the Committees on 
behalf of NACVSO, thank you for your attention to these 
matters. I look forward to our continued work together to 
better serve our Nation's veterans and their families.
    [Applause.]

    [The prepared statement of Mr. McLaughlin appears on page 
119 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Mr. McLaughlin. Now, I would like 
to recognize Commander Campos for 5 minutes for her opening 
statement.

 STATEMENT OF CDR RENE A. CAMPOS, (USN-RET.), SENIOR DIRECTOR, 
 GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, MILITARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA

    Ms. Campos. Chairman Bost, House and Senate Veterans' 
Affairs Committees, I invite MOAA members here and our staff 
today to stand. They represent over 350,000 members whose 
voices strengthen our advocacy. We thank you for the 
opportunity to share our veteran priorities.
    [Applause.]
    Let me begin by commending your work last year in the Dole 
Act. It is a testament to the power of collaboration and 
bipartisan support in achieving meaningful reforms. Yet much 
remains to strengthen support to veterans. Here is a short list 
of MOAA's priorities. For veterans' health care it is 
supporting veteran caregivers by passing the Veteran Caregiver 
Reeducation, Reemployment, and Retirement Act. Just as veterans 
answered the call to serve their Nation, their caregivers also 
answered the call to step up and serve them. These caregivers 
sacrificed their own futures, giving up financial security, 
career advancement, and personal well-being to care for our 
Nation's heroes. Yet when caregiving ends, whether it is due to 
ineligibility to veterans' services or the passing of their 
loved one, many are left struggling to rebuild their lives. For 
example, one son cared for his Vietnam father for a decade. 
When the role ended, he faced difficulty re-entering the 
workforce due to outdated skills and employment gaps. A 
returnship program, as proposed in this bill, would provide 
crucial reemployment opportunities. This act fulfills our 
Nation's promise to those who sacrifice so much. It empowers 
caregivers financially while potentially reducing long-term 
reliance on federal assistance. We urge Congress to pass this 
legislation.
    We also seek action to strengthen support for women and 
other underserved veterans by eliminating barriers to health 
care. These veterans face limited provider availability, lack 
awareness of benefits, they experience longer wait times and 
disparities in health care outcomes, and they face challenges 
due to income, education, and other systemic barriers that 
create inequities in accessing vital services. MOAA urges 
Congress to pass the Improving Menopause Care for Veterans Act 
to advance research and to enhance care for women veterans and 
to reintroduce the SAVES Act to expand care and benefits for 
survivors of MST.
    For veterans benefits, we ask your support in ending the 
wait for the toxic-exposed veterans by codifying framework for 
the presumptive process. The PACT Act was certainly historic, 
but veterans still wait decades for recognition of toxic 
exposures. Since World War I, only 30 exposures have been 
recognized, taking an average of 34 years to establish 
presumption. MOAA and DAV's ``Ending the Wait'' report 
highlights the urgent need to improve the presumptive process. 
We urge Congress to codify a framework that acknowledges 
exposure and its risk, concedes exposure when justified, and 
commits to ongoing research linking exposures to healthcare 
outcomes. This framework is an essential first step to 
delivering the healthcare and benefits earned.
    Additionally, we encourage Congress to focus on improving 
the transition services for service members by including VSOs 
in the TAP process. We all know financial stability is crucial 
to a smooth transition to civilian life. The Benefits Delivery 
at Discharge program helps expedite claims process, but 
excluding VSOs from TAPs increases unnecessary risk as both a 
VSO and an MSO, MOAA leverages its expertise to bridge the gap 
between the military and civilian communities. Including VSOs 
in TAP would provide transitioning service members with the 
essential guidance they need. We ask Congress to reintroduce 
and pass the TAP Promotion Act.
    Finally, we urge Congress to immediately pass this year's 
VA funding and secure FY 2026 appropriations by October 1st. 
Predictable sufficient funding is vital to sustaining VA's 
health and benefit systems, meeting the growing needs of 
veterans and their families, and fulfilling congressional 
mandates without disruption.
    MOAA thanks you for your leadership and commitment to those 
who have served, and we stand ready to work with Congress to 
hold our Nation's promises and ensure every veteran receives 
the care and benefits they earned. Thank you and I welcome your 
questions.
    [Applause.]

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Campos appears on page 126 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. Thank you, Commander. I now recognize Mr. 
Sheppard for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY SHEPPARD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION 
             OF STATE DIRECTORS OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

    Mr. Sheppard. Thank you, Chairman Bost. I am Tim Sheppard, 
President of the National Association of State Directors of 
Veterans Affairs, or NASDVA for short. Please accept our 
submitted written testimony for the record.
    NASDVA was founded in 1946 following World War II to unite 
VA leaders from all 50 states, five U.S. territories, and the 
District of Columbia. NASDVA is tasked and held accountable by 
our respective Governors, state boards, or commissions to 
address the needs of our veterans. Although each state or 
territory is unique in its organizational structure, programs, 
and resources, we are frontline advocates for our Nation's 18 
million veterans, with the common goal of conducting outreach 
and serving them.
    Importantly, we partner with the federal VA, VSOs, and 
community partners, though the relationship between federal VA 
and NASDAQ is formalized by a Standing Memorandum of 
Understanding which we will have signed later this summer with 
Secretary Collins.
    The two most important VA grant programs with VA are the 
State Veterans Home Construction Grant Program and the Veterans 
Cemetery Grants Program. The State Veterans Homes provide more 
than 50 percent of the total VA long-term care in 171 
operational homes with over 30,000 beds of care. There are 81 
Priority Group 1 projects which requires roughly $1.3 billion 
for the federal 65 percent match. Both our association and the 
National Association of State Veterans Homes recommends 
increased funding from the proposed budget of only $147 million 
to at least $650 million to address the increasing need for 
nursing care and fund at least a half of the pending grant 
request.
    Additionally, the operational costs warrant an increase in 
per diem rates to enhance the quality of care in the face of 
chronic shortages of health care professionals, rising cost of 
medications, and the increase in the complexity of care for the 
aging veterans' population.
    For Memorial Affairs, the Veterans Cemetery Grants Program 
provided roughly 43,000 internments in 2024, which is roughly 
24 percent of the total number of burials by NCA and grant 
cemeteries. There are 122 state, tribal, and three territory 
grant funded cemeteries that support VA's goal that 95 percent 
of veterans have a burial option within a 75-mile radius of 
their home county.
    The FY 2025 budget proposal is only $60 million. Priority 
Group 1 projects are for expansion and improvement of existing 
cemeteries and totals more than $100 million. The funding is 
insufficient to award grants for new state or tribal 
cemeteries. The program needs an increase to at least $120 
million to address Priority Group 2 establishments.
    For the 9 million veterans receiving VA health care. We 
recommend continued emphasis by VA to ensure veterans are 
provided timely access. We recommend the external provider 
scheduling program be expanded nationally to include direct 
care availability which gives the veterans a comparison between 
VA and community providers. The focus should be on the 
veteran's medical needs, whether in-house, VA, or by community 
care, which in essence is VA care. The scheduling of 
appointments needs improvement and reimbursements to providers 
should be prompt. The coordination of available care is the 
key.
    We support Congress's oversight to hold VA accountable for 
the rollout of the Electronic Health Record Modernization. It 
is a complex software, but it is taking too long to deploy. VA 
needs to address both current system challenges highlighted by 
users and future IT issues. VA should continue to conduct 
operational assessments and have a strategic roadmap for 
completion.
    In conclusion, I want to re-emphasize again that we are 
government-to-government partners with the federal VA and we 
are second only to them in the direct delivery of services. 
Distinguished Committee Members, we sincerely respect and 
appreciate your work to improve the well-being of our Nation's 
veterans. It is our honor for us to be part of the mission. 
Thank you and Hooah.
    Voices. Hooah.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sheppard appears on page 148 
of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. You Army guys. Marines we just do it Oorah, 
different. Mr. Toenniessen, you are recognized for 5 minutes 
for your opening statement.

STATEMENT OF RAYMOND TOENNIESSEN, DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND 
   VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AND INNOVATION, 
   D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES AT 
                      SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Toenniessen. Thank you. Chairman Moran and Bost, 
Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, and Members of the 
Committees, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to 
present the 2025 policy priorities of the D'Aniello Institute 
for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University.
    Our Nation's all-volunteer force relies on our shared 
commitment to ensure that veterans and their families not only 
survive but truly thrive after service. To achieve this, we 
must address the complex challenges they face with proactive 
interventions, strong public-private partnerships and rigorous 
evaluation. Most critical, the VA's recent National Veterans 
Suicide Prevention Annual Report confirms that the rate of 
death by suicide remains unacceptably high. We know that 
health, economic, and housing challenges rarely occur in 
isolation. Instead, each additional stressor compounds the risk 
of suicidal ideation.
    Over the past decade, initiatives like our America Serves 
program have been vital. Data shows that nearly 70 percent of 
veterans supported through America Serves are also enrolled in 
VA healthcare, a clear sign that when communities and the VA 
work in tandem, they can address stressors more effectively and 
reach veterans who might otherwise be overlooked.
    Equally important is the role of programs like the Staff 
Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant. As this 
program comes up for reauthorization, we value your commitment 
to enhancing it with improvements drawn from both grantee and 
advocate feedback. Such enhancements will empower communities 
to act decisively before it is too late.
    Additionally, these comprehensive mental health 
interventions demand stronger accountability, and we urge 
Congress to establish enhanced standards for data collection 
and evaluation across the VA and its community partnerships. By 
setting clear, outcome driven benchmarks, we can ensure that 
every dollar is spent where it will have the greatest impact.
    Transitioning from military service presents its own unique 
set of challenges. Data shows us that although most veterans 
pursue employment after service, including those furthering 
their education, 62 percent remain underemployed six and a half 
years after leaving the military. Meanwhile, the Federal 
Government spends over $13 billion annually on transition 
programs, primarily focused on education, spread across 46 
federal programs managed by 11 different agencies. A recent 
RAND report found that few of these programs have undergone 
rigorous independent evaluation, with 27 of the programs 
releasing no performance data at all.
    In contrast, nonprofit initiatives can deliver and show 
significant results. Our Onward to Opportunity program provides 
skills training and credentialing to over 10,000 transitioning 
service members, veterans and military spouses each year. As 
the only program evaluated by a third party, O2O stands as 
evidence that community led efforts can often operate more 
efficiently than their government counterparts. We encourage 
Congress to allocate additional resources to nonprofits that 
demonstrate measurable, positive outcomes and to require 
evaluation of federal programs.
    Data from the Veterans Metrics Initiative, a comprehensive 
longitudinal study of Post-9/11 veterans by Penn State 
University, could be an instrumental guide in these much-needed 
reforms.
    Navigation of services remains a critical challenge. 
Findings from our latest Blue Star Families Lifestyle survey 
reveals that 36 percent of veteran spouses access transition 
resources through TAP. This underscores the need for formal 
channels to complement informal networks, especially for 
spouses who often manage household finances and family goals. 
Legislative measures should simplify resource navigation, 
shifting our focus from reactionary fixes to long-term economic 
and career preparation that prevents crises and secures lasting 
stability.
    Our veterans bring tremendous value to industries central 
to America's prosperity. For instance, memory chip giant Micron 
Technology is investing in a military talent pipeline through 
our O2O program to help staff what will be one of the largest 
semiconductor manufacturing facilities in the country. All of 
this shows that targeted initiatives can bridge the gap to high 
tech careers and bolster our Nation's energy and technology 
infrastructure.
    In closing, ensuring that our veterans and their families 
thrive is essential to the strength of our all-volunteer force. 
This mission demands a coordinated whole-of-nation approach, 
one that cuts through bureaucratic hurdles, forges robust 
partnerships and is driven by clear data-backed results. The 
D'Aniello Institute remains steadfast in its commitment to 
rigorous research and proven programs so that every veteran 
receives the support they deserve.
    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Toenniessen appears on page 
166 of the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. Thank you very much. General Piatt, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF LT. GEN. WALTER E. PIATT (RET.), CHIEF EXECUTIVE 
                OFFICER, WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

    Mr. Piatt. Chairman Bost and Moran, Ranking Members Takano 
and Blumenthal, and distinguished Committee Members. Thank you 
for today's hearing and for the honor to join you on behalf of 
Wounded Warrior Project and the warriors in families we serve. 
Over 20 years ago, when the first wounded service members 
returned from the battlefields, our organization made a promise 
to be there for these warriors no matter what. That promise is 
our why. It is the reason Wounded Warrior Project exists, to 
bring every warrior fully home, mind, body and soul and connect 
them back to a path in life of hope and purpose.
    Today, our promise endures. But the future of service will 
require more. Warriors will continue to defend our country. 
Warriors will struggle. More will be asked of our grateful 
Nation. More will be asked from all of us. No matter what is 
required, we must keep this promise. It is an extraordinary 
commitment in return for extraordinary sacrifice.
    As we look to the future, Wounded Warrior Project remains 
committed to working with you. Your invaluable support will 
make all the difference in helping our Nation's wounded 
veterans thrive in life following military service. Next week, 
100 warriors from Wounded Warrior Project will be coming to 
Washington, DC to visit all of you. These warriors will bring 
with them the experiences of struggle and uncertainty, but they 
will also bring with them the power of hope and healing. They 
are the voices for their communities and will help deliver the 
message of how we can best support them.
    They will specifically address three issues: mental health, 
financial wellness and traumatic brain injury. Our warriors 
will share how you can support their mental health needs. They 
will ask for your help in passing a Veterans' ACCESS Act which 
will set access standards for VAs mental health residential 
rehabilitation treatment programs. These intensive care 
programs provided changing--life changing mental health care, 
over 30,000 veterans in 2023 and we appreciate all who have 
made this critical issue a priority.
    Our warriors will also tell you how you can best support 
their financial wellness. They will once again ask Congress to 
pass the Major Richard Star Act which will expand concurrent 
receipt policy to more than 54,000 military retirees whose 
careers were cut short due to combat related injuries, allowing 
them to collect their full compensation through the VA and DoD 
that they earned and deserve.
    Our warriors will also tell you how you can support 
veterans living with traumatic brain injury. They will ask for 
continued investment in research that explores the course of 
neurological and cognitive functioning after TBI and builds 
evidence to expand access to effective treatments and 
community-based support. TBI is a complex injury with a 
spectrum of short- and long-term conditions. We must continue 
to support the study of impacts on repetitive low level blast 
injuries on veterans' mental health as we have with efforts 
like the Precision Brain Health Research Act of 2024.
    I am grateful that so many of you on this Committee have 
made time to meet with these warriors next week where they can 
share their experience with these issues and the lasting impact 
your support has had on their lives, their families, and their 
communities. I sincerely thank you for the honor to testify and 
for all you do and your part in helping us keep the promise. 
Thank you again for all you do. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [Applause.]

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Piatt appears on page 176 of 
the Appendix.]

    Chairman Bost. General, thank you and thank you. General 
thank you and thank each one of you for your testimony. We are 
now going to go to questions. I recognize myself for 3 minutes. 
Commander Campos, why is it so critical to hold VA accountable 
in its efforts to improve access to residential treatment 
options?
    Ms. Campos. Chairman, thank you for that question. Well, it 
is really important that VA expands its services to our RTP 
programs. Most of VA can't and is unable to deliver those 
services completely through its own system. So we need that 
care in the community. So, those services are vital, and that 
is where the veterans are. And it is especially important in 
rural areas where VA does not have a footprint. So those 
programs are very, very important. And we would also like to 
see some other expansions, even in terms of mental health with 
the Vet Center. So, it is more in the community. It is very 
well received by veterans. They feel comfortable going to those 
centers, and we would like to see that continued expansion.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Mr. Sheppard. There is currently 
a major focus on providing adequate care for our veterans, both 
within the VA system and throughout the community care 
providers. How has legislation such as MISSION Act been 
beneficial to strengthen ties between VA and community care 
providers?
    Mr. Sheppard. Thank you for that question, Chairman Bost. I 
will speak of my own situation. I find that community care is 
incredibly important and available. If there is one thing I 
have seen between care at the VA versus community care, the 
process for scheduling is a little clunky, but I think the VA 
has gotten better at that. But more importantly, the quality of 
the community care has been outstanding. And I see it across 
the Nation, that we continue to grow and improve in our ability 
to work those two together. And with the idea that, hey, it has 
the best interest of the veteran, get them to the right care 
and get them there as quickly as you can.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. General, in the past, Veteran 
Readiness and Employment in VR&E has been called the crown 
jewel of the VA by Members of this Committee. Recently, 
however, the VR&E has had some serious issues relating to 
staffing and modernization. What steps should Congress take to 
bring VR&E back to the level that the veterans deserve?
    Mr. Piatt. Thank you for the question and thank you for all 
you have done with this issue. I think just continued support 
there and I think leverage on the VSOs as well. I think we all 
have a role to play in here on employment for our veterans to 
get access to this care. I think it has a lot to ask for the VA 
to do it all on their own, but we believe continued pushing of 
that act will continue to bring the services our veterans need 
and deserve.
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Dexter, you are recognized 
for 3 minutes for questioning.
    Dr. Dexter. Thank you so much, Chairman Bost, and thank you 
for holding this important hearing, once again. Thank you to 
our witnesses for being here. Your advocacy is invaluable, as 
hopefully each of you know. I thank you all for what you do 
each and every day. Being advocates is a work of passion. It is 
a work of commitment. And I think right now it is also critical 
to acknowledge the extraordinary courage it takes for some to 
be in this space.
    Lindsay, I just want to be clear that I am grateful to you 
for your dedication. I am clear your courage is extraordinary 
at this moment in time, and it has a beacon of hope for many 
veterans across this country. Each and every veteran deserves 
equal respect [cheering]. And I hope all advocates will agree 
that every veteran earns that respect and will stand with you 
at this time.
    When I speak with veterans, veteran service providers, and 
VSOs in my district, one priority comes up time again and 
again, preventing veteran suicide. And the reality is stark. 
Lindsay, the system has consistently failed those you 
represent, and it has led to devastating health outcomes, 
including unacceptably high suicide rates. Lindsay, can you 
share how the Trump administration's recent Executive orders 
and mass firings have impacted the mental health resources 
available to your members?
    Ms. Church. Thank you. You are going to make me cry. Thank 
you for your remarks and for the question. Providers who serve 
trans patients are deeply uncertain about what they can do, how 
they are expected to treat us, and how they are going to be 
forced to discuss our care. My providers are unclear if they 
can even use the appropriate pronouns to address me.
    Non-consensually, transgender veterans have had their birth 
sex returned to their records, meaning that my birth sex has 
been revealed to everybody, including a dental scheduler. My 
gender identity is a deeply personal part of my identity, and 
it is a part of my health profile. Transgender veterans are 
making impossible decisions about whether or not to continue to 
use care at VA. My own provider can't even guarantee that I can 
be safe to continue to use care. I have to seek care outside of 
VA because I don't trust that I am going to be safe from DOGE 
data collection. I had my gender identity removed from my 
records because the libs of TikTok flagged it for DOGE and the 
Secretary of VA, and the next day, it was gone.
    It is unacceptable. We already had a transgender veteran 
die by suicide on January 27th in Syracuse, New York, in a 
parking lot. Like most of our veteran suicide, draped in a 
Trans Pride flag. We are dying and we are going to keep dying 
because the government is trying to erase us. We won't be 
erased, but we will suffer unnecessarily. And our providers 
have no idea what is going to be inbound.
    It is not only unethical, it has also a First Amendment 
violation. Telling people that they have to misgender us is 
unethical. It is against their code. As a doctor, you know 
this. It is unacceptable and it is inhumane. We are people 
trying to get access to care. We deserve it. We shouldn't have 
to beg and grovel to be treated as a regular person. We die by 
suicide at a higher rate than anybody at this table. Why are we 
being eradicated?
    Thank you.
    Dr. Dexter. Thank you.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman Bost. Thank you. Congressman Kennedy, you are 
recognized for 3 minutes.

                     HON. TIMOTHY KENNEDY, 
               U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW YORK

    Mr. Kennedy. First of all, Lindsay, thank you for that very 
powerful message. To all of our veterans, thank you so much for 
being here. Thank you for your service to our country. Thank 
you today, folks, for your testimony.
    In Buffalo, New York, we are dealing with a very specific 
issue as it pertains to veteran care at the VA Medical Center. 
And following a chaotic and disturbing administrative issue, 
there were two leaders of that hospital that were pulled by the 
VA, removed, because not just of a lackluster performance, but 
of abhorrent administration of the work that they were sworn to 
do to help our veterans get the health care that they have 
earned and deserve. And so, in this moment, I am heartbroken to 
see what is happening with the cuts in the administrative jobs 
at the VA across this country, 1400 of which happened in the 
last few weeks. When by the VA's own account, there was already 
a shortage of 40,000 staff members. It is unconscionable. This 
should not be happening. But it is. Under this administration, 
in the efforts of unelected billionaire Elon Musk, who is 
running roughshod over our Constitution and our veterans, both 
those that served our country and then decided to go into 
public service, including service-disabled veterans. A third of 
the workforce in this country is made up of our veterans. Half 
of them are service disabled. We owe it to our veterans to 
prioritize their well-being, their livelihood, their place in 
the workforce of America, and treat them like the heroes that 
they are, not the way they are being treated.
    And so, to hear what I am hearing today and to know that 
these services are going to be cut, it is painful, it is 
unacceptable. And we as a country are better than this.
    I yield back.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman Bost. Ranking Member, you are now recognized for 3 
minutes. Ranking Member, you are recognized for 3 minutes. 
Everybody else has asked.
    Mr. Takano. So, my first question is for Mr. McLaughlin of 
the NACVSO. Mr. McLaughlin, I want to thank you for, thank you 
and your colleagues for the important work you do in connecting 
veterans with VA, and their earned health care and benefits is 
crucial work. I read in your testimony about the importance of 
strengthening partnerships between VA and advocates such as 
yourself. What is needed to achieve these strong relationships 
and how can Congress help you?
    Mr. McLaughlin. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member 
Takano. One of the big things that we are asking for is 
increased collaboration and communication between all levels of 
government. Right now, we appreciate the relationships that we 
have with our state partners, that we have with our federal 
partners, but it is very much siloed. And so, looking at that 
report as part of the VBIA Act that is directing VA to report 
back to you all with recommendations on how we can increase 
community frontline resources for veterans, not at a regional 
office, not at a medical center, where the veterans live. 
Counties, states, and municipalities are where our veterans 
live. They don't live at the medical center; they don't live at 
the regional office. So increasing that collaboration and 
formalizing the relationship similar like our Department of 
Justice has with our county attorneys, and our sheriffs, and 
our local law enforcement. If we can get together on board as 
united front, federal, state, and local, on that front, I think 
our veterans are owed for us to coordinate all efforts on their 
behalf.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Lindsay, you and I have 
discussed many times VA's issues with gender-based harassment 
and your concerns. How can our Committees best impact the 
prevalence of harassment at VA?
    Ms. Church. Thank you for the question. The greatest thing 
that this Committee can do is oversight. Deborah Sampson Act 
added 5303, which is the preventing gender-based harassment. 
First and foremost, not removing gender is a really important 
part about being able to report on gender-based harassment. 
Second, of all gender-based harassment and discrimination 
claims are up 106 percent last year. That is a travesty that 
this Committee has focused heavily on.
    So, continuing that oversight, making sure that we 
strengthen provisions of Deborah Sampson, focusing on 
strengthening the reporting mechanism, and how do we report in 
a system where we don't trust the environment that we are going 
into. Discrimination cases are going to continue to go up. So 
are harassment cases in a culture that is permissive of it.
    Continuing to do oversight, making sure that the reports 
from Deborah Sampson are actually independent of the complaint. 
There are two reports that they tried to consolidate. Making 
sure that the reporting on Deborah Sampson is pure. Making sure 
that we can see the data and we can see the facilities that are 
in trouble. We continue to see an obscured amount of data if 
you have fewer than 10 instances at a VA facility, which you 
should be in remediation, we can't see that. So, making sure 
that we have proper oversight over the entire mechanism is 
deeply important to addressing the issue of harassment. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you. I am done. I am done. Yes.
    Chairman Bost. I want to thank all of you for being here 
today. You know, that concludes today's VSO hearing. And I want 
to thank--I think it is clear that the Committee is 
collaborating with VA and has more work to do in services to 
our veterans and their families and we will continue to carry 
out that work. I ask unanimous consent that all Members shall 
have five legislative days in which revise and extend their 
remarks and include any extraneous material. Hearing no 
objections, so ordered. This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the Joint Committees were 
adjourned.]

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