    [Senate Hearing 119-15]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 119-15

                    LEGISLATIVE PRESENTATION OF THE AMERICAN
                     LEGION AND MULTI VSOs: JEWISH WAR VET-
                     ERANS OF THE USA, MINORITY VETERANS
                     OF AMERICA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
                     COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS, MILI-
                     TARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA,
                     NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE DIRECTORS
                     OF VETERANS AFFAIRS, D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE
                     FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES, AND
                     WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT
    =======================================================================

                                 JOINT HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                                     OF THE

                                 UNITED STATES
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                                    AND THE

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 26, 2025

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE INTIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    59-385 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                     SENATE COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         Jerry Moran, Kansas, Chairman
    John Boozman, Arkansas               Richard Blumenthal, Connecticut,
    Bill Cassidy, Louisiana                  Ranking Member
    Thom Tillis, North Carolina          Patty Murray, Washington
    Dan Sullivan, Alaska                 Bernard Sanders, Vermont
    Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee          Mazie K. Hirono, Hawaii
    Kevin Cramer, North Dakota           Margaret Wood Hassan, New
    Tommy Tuberville, Alabama                Hampshire
    Jim Banks, Indiana                   Angus S. King, Jr., Maine
    Tim Sheehy, Montana                  Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
                                         Ruben Gallego, Arizona
                                         Elissa Slotkin, Michigan

                         David Shearman, Staff Director
                    Tony McClain, Democratic Staff Director

                                  ----------

            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         Mike Bost, Illinois, Chairman

    Aumua Amata Coleman Radewagen,       Mark Takano, California, Ranking
        American Samoa                       Member
    Jack Bergman, Michigan               Julia Brownley, California
    Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Chris Pappas, New Hampshire
    Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Iowa       Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick,
    Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina        Florida
    Derrick Van Orden, Wisconsin         Morgan McGarvey, Kentucky
    Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
    Juan Ciscomani, Arizona              Nikki Budzinski, Illinois
    Keith Self, Texas                    Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
    Jennifer A. Kiggans, Virginia        Maxine Dexter, Oregon
    Abe Hamadeh, Arizona                 Herb Conaway, New Jersey
    Kimberlyn King-Hinds, Northern       Kelly Morrison, Minnesota
        Mariana Islands
    Tom Barrett, Michigan

                           Jon Clark, Staff Director
                      Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               February 26, 2025

                                                                       Page

                                REPRESENTATIVES

    Hon. Mike Bost, Chairman, U.S. Representative from Illinois......     1
    Hon. Mark Takano, Ranking Member, U.S. Representative from
      California.....................................................     4
    Hon. Aumua Amata Coleman Radewagen, U.S. Representative from
      American Samoa.................................................    17
    Hon. Herb Conaway, U.S. Representative from New Jersey...........    19
    Hon. Abe Hamadeh, U.S. Representative from Arizona...............    21
    Hon. Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, U.S. Representative from Florida    23
    Hon. Mariannette Miller-Meeks, U.S. Representative from Iowa.....    26
    Hon. Maxine Dexter, U.S. Representative from Oregon..............    27
    Hon. Morgan McGarvey, U.S. Representative from Kentucky..........    30
    Hon. Kelly Morrison, U.S. Representative from Minnesota..........    31
    Hon. Timothy M. Kennedy, U.S. Representative from New York.......    50

                                    SENATORS

    Hon. Jerry Moran, Chairman, U.S. Senator from Kansas.............     4
    Hon. Richard Blumenthal, Ranking Member, U.S. Senator from
      Connecticut....................................................     6
    Hon. Thom Tillis, U.S. Senator from North Carolina...............    18
    Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan, U.S. Senator from New Hampshire.......    20
    Hon. Jim Banks, U.S. Senator from Indiana........................    22
    Hon. Angus S. King, Jr., U.S. Senator from Maine.................    25
    Hon. Tammy Duckworth, U.S. Senator from Illinois.................    28

                                   INTRODUCER

    Hon. Joe Courtney, U.S. Representative from Connecticut..........     9

                                   WITNESSES
                                    Panel I

    James LaCoursiere, Jr., National Commander, The American Legion..    10

      accompanied by

      Joe Sharpe, Director, Veterans Employment and Education
        Division

      Matthew Jabaut, Chairman, Veterans Employment and Education
        Commission

      Matthew Shuman, Chairman, Legislative Commission

      Julia Mathis, Director, Legislative Division

      John ``Jay'' Bowen, Chairman, Veterans Affairs and
        Rehabilitation
        Commission

      Cole Lyle, Director, Veterans Affairs and Rehabilitation
        Division

                                    Panel II

    Gary Ginsburg, (USA-Ret.), National Commander, Jewish War
      Veterans of the USA............................................    37

    Lindsay Church, Executive Director and Co-Founder, Minority
      Veterans of America............................................    39

    Michael McLaughlin, Legislative Director, National Association of
      County Veterans Service Officers...............................    40

    CDR Rene A. Campos, (USN-Ret.), Senior Director, Government
      Relations, Military Officers Association of America............    42

    Timothy Sheppard, President, National Association of State
      Directors of Veterans Affairs..................................    44

    Raymond Toenniessen, Deputy Executive Director and Vice President
      for Strategic Initiatives and Innovation, D'Aniello Institute
      for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......    45

    Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt (Ret.), Chief Executive Officer, Wounded
      Warrior Project................................................    47

                                    APPENDIX
                              Prepared Statements

    James LaCoursiere, Jr., National Commander, The American Legion..    57

    Gary Ginsburg, (USA-Ret.), National Commander, Jewish War
      Veterans of the USA............................................    82

      Appendix A: Special Focus on Antisemitism......................    92

      Appendix B: Research Briefs from Rand Corporation and D'Aniello
        Institute for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse
        University...................................................    93

    Lindsay Church, Executive Director and Co-Founder, Minority
      Veterans of America............................................    98

    Michael McLaughlin, Legislative Director, National Association of
      County Veterans Service Officers...............................   119

      NACVSO Priorities for the 119th Congress.......................   123

    CDR Rene A. Campos, (USN-Ret.), Senior Director, Government
      Relations, Military Officers Association of America............   126

    Timothy Sheppard, President, National Association of State
      Directors of Veterans Affairs..................................   148

    Raymond Toenniessen, Deputy Executive Director and Vice President
      for Strategic Initiatives and Innovation, D'Aniello Institute
      for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University......   166

    Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt (Ret.), Chief Executive Officer, Wounded
      Warrior Project................................................   176

                           Submission for the Record

    Partial list of U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs direct
      service contracts..............................................   205

                            Questions for the Record

    The American Legion response to questions submitted by:

      Hon. Margaret Wood Hassan......................................   211

    LEGISLATIVE PRESENTATION OF THE AMERICAN LEGION AND MULTI VSOs: JEWISH
        WAR VETERANS OF THE USA, MINORITY VETERANS OF AMERICA, NATIONAL
      ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS, MILITARY OFFICERS
      ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE DIRECTORS OF
        VETERANS AFFAIRS, D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY
                     FAMILIES, AND WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2025

                 U.S. House of Representatives,
                                       and U.S. Senate,
                                Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in Room
    390, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Bost, Chairman of
    the Veterans' Affairs Committee, presiding.

        Present:

        Representatives Bost, Radewagen, Miller-Meeks, Hamadeh,
    Takano, Pappas, Cherfilus-McCormick, McGarvey, Kennedy, Dexter,
    Conaway, and Morrison.

        Senators Moran, Tillis, Banks, Sheehy, Blumenthal, Hassan,
    King, and Duckworth.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE BOST,
              CHAIRMAN, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS

        Chairman Bost. Good morning. The hearing will come to
    order. And good morning to everyone, thank you all for being
    here, and I would like to welcome my Senate colleagues,
    Chairman Moran, Ranking Member Blumenthal.
        Before we get started, I would like to acknowledge our
    visitors present from the greatest state, the State of
    Illinois. Anyone out there? Yes? All right. Well, just so you
    know, when I said this yesterday, I am from Southern Illinois,
    which is a little different as far as Illinois is concerned. If
    you are really from Southern Illinois, you capitalize the
    ``S.'' And it is not a separate state, but sometimes we feel
    that way. But I want to thank you all for traveling here from
    Illinois. I know that is not an easy travel. I do that on a
    regular basis. But if you would, could you just please stand?
    Those of you that can. Thanks for being here.
        [Applause.]
        And it is an honor to be here with all of you, my fellow
    Legionnaires. I am a Marine veteran.
        Voices. Hooah.
        Notice we Marines say that ``Oorah,'' right? The Army
    people, they say that different. But I am a proud member of
    Murphysboro Post 127. And though we are busy, I want to tell
    you little neat things about Murphysboro Post 127. It is the
    Paul Stout Post and Paul Stout was actually fought as a Marine.
    I know this. He fought in Belleau Wood, then he fought in the
    Battle of Bella, and then he was killed in the next, and he was
    a private. But on his 100th anniversary of his death, we
    actually at the Paul Stout Post--because we have a local craft
    brewery, we actually--they made a Paul Stout [laughter]. And so
    it was wonderful to do that. So I am very happy to talk to you
    about my post.
        Now, before you check, I want you to know I have got my
    dues paid up. So, just, Commander, know my dues are paid. All
    right.
        You know, the American Legion has a dutiful work on behalf
    of those who have served our country for more than 100 years,
    and it is a privilege to be part of that organization. With
    that being said, I also want to welcome Mr. James LaCourseiere,
    the National Commander of the American Legion, and his spouse,
    Lisa. Thank you for being here.
        [Applause.]
        I am looking forward to continuing our partnership to
    better serve veterans across the U.S. The American Legion does
    an outstanding job of sharing their perspective and concerns of
    their members with our Committee. Our work here on the
    Committee is greatly assisted by their dedication to the
    mission. It is our honor. It is an honor for me to be here
    today serving as a House Committee, Veterans' Affairs in the
    Chair. It is my second term as Chair and I never thought this
    corporal would ever have an opportunity to do that.
        This mission of the VA Committee has always been personal
    to me. If you were around yesterday when we had the other
    panels before us, you know that--so my father and his brothers
    were all Army, Korean War. Had a grandfather who was Navy,
    Second World War. Had a grandfather who was Marine, Korean War.
    Had an uncle that was Marine, Vietnam, victim of the ultimate
    oxymoron, friendly fire. He did survive and he is doing very
    well today thanks to a lot of help from the VA. So then me,
    noncombat Marine, and my son who is a Lieutenant Colonel today,
    is actually a reservist, but was active for many years. He is a
    JAG in the Corps. My grandson who just got out of the Corps,
    who was an F-18 mechanic. So as you can see, it is really,
    really personal to me when it comes to our veterans.
        Now, every time I sit at the dais and we are getting into
    debate whether it is with the VA or the other side of the
    aisle, I am always thinking of the veterans. And I told this
    story yesterday and I will tell it again to you. If you have
    ever been around here in DC and seen me walking up down the
    halls or seen me on the floor or seen me here, I wear this
    bracelet. This bracelet has the colors of my Corps, and it was
    given to me by a Vietnam veteran. Honest to goodness, he just
    went by Lieutenant Dan. And Lieutenant Dan gave it to me 11
    years ago whenever he found out that I was going to be on the
    VA Committee. And he said, Mike, I want to give you this and I
    am going to give you a couple of them because if you wear them
    all the time, you will get them dirty, you will wear them out.
    But he said, I want you to wear it because I want you to look
    down and remember who you were there serving, and that way I
    don't forget. I don't think I would forget anyway, but this
    helps.
        For me, it is about the veteran. It is not about protecting
    government bureaucracy. And I know the sacrifices each of you
    have made. Each of you has fought to protect our Constitutional
    rights. We had many important accomplishments last Congress,
    but many issues still remain. And I am grateful for this
    opportunity to learn more about what we as Congress can help
    our Nation's veterans do.
        Veterans should have the freedom to use the benefits of VA
    offered in exchange for their service to meet their individual
    needs. And they shouldn't be spending hours driving in their
    cars to get them or combing through wonky paperwork for months
    on end or needlessly waiting for a phone call to get a simple
    answer. You know where the VA is falling short, as do I. And
    you know where we need to push the agency to bring it out of
    the Stone Age and into the New Age. You have my commitment that
    as long as I am in charge, we will continue to fight for you
    and the voices you represent, the hundreds of thousands of
    veterans outside this DC beltway who just want their health
    care on time and their benefits when they need them.
        This old corporal takes this mission seriously and I know
    my friend and our new Secretary of the VA, Doug Collins, does
    too. Under President Trump's leadership, I know we are going to
    put you, the veteran, and the VA services back at the center of
    the VA mission. And when the bureaucrats try to get in the way,
    I will continue to be the first to hold them accountable and
    get answers for you.
        We made great progress with the passage of the Dole Act,
    and I am incredibly grateful to the American Legion for their
    support in getting this bill across the finish line. And I am
    committed to improving VA's ability to hold their employees
    accountable so that the veterans have access to world class
    care.
        I am grateful to the American Legion for their support of
    the Restore Accountability Act of 2025, which would do just
    that. We must deliver for our veterans to protect their health
    care choice, expand economic and education opportunities and
    streamline benefits and get it--and get it done. I promise to
    keep up the fight we are all in together. Now, it is time to
    take--it is not time to take our foot off the gas. I look
    forward to completing our mission alongside of you.
        Once again, thank you for being here today and I want to
    now recognize Chairman Moran for his opening statement.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JERRY MORAN,
                   CHAIRMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM KANSAS

        Chairman Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you. As I said
    yesterday, I am pleased to be with you and my colleagues from
    the House and the Senate as we examine the desires of a number
    of VSOs for their agenda for this new Congress. And I thank you
    for the Commander. Commander, I thank you for your presence
    here this morning and all the American Legion accompanying
    witnesses. I recognize the role that the American Legion plays
    at home in Kansas and here in Washington, DC as we advocate for
    the well-being of veterans today and in the future. And I
    welcome any Kansans in the audience and welcome Kansans at home
    who are paying attention to this hearing today.
        I want to thank the American Legion for their--and many of
    the of the folks on the second panel for their support for The
    Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and Benefits
    Improvement Act. We must make certain that we don't just pass
    legislation, but it is implemented in a way that actually
    serves veterans, and we are continuing to make certain that we
    take every step to see that is the case in this legislation.
        The American Legion and others testifying here today have
    also extended their support for the ACCESS Act, the Precision
    Brain Health Research Act, the Veterans 2nd Amendment
    Protection Act, and my National Guard and Reserve GI Bill
    Parity Act, all of which have been introduced in this Congress.
        As I said yesterday, the policies and programs that we will
    discuss today depend upon a strong and effective workforce at
    the VA to deliver the care and benefits veterans deserve. I am
    committed to working with the VSOs, with the American Legion
    and others and my colleagues on this panel to make certain that
    the necessary VA workforce is preserved as the VA implements
    new federal workforce guidance.
        The VA must be forthcoming and transparent with Congress,
    with the VSOs, and the public about how it is implementing
    workforce changes and work to avoid or correct actions that
    could undermine veteran access to care and benefits. Thank you
    again, Commander LaCourseiere, for being here. I look forward
    to your testimony, and I yield back.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Senator. I now recognize Ranking
    Member Takano for his opening statement.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MARK TAKANO,
          RANKING MEMBER, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today we
    continue our annual series of joint hearings. I am pleased to
    welcome our first panel, the National Commander and
    representatives of the American Legion, as well as our second
    panel, representatives from Minority Veterans of America,
    Jewish War Veterans, the National Association of County
    Veterans Service Officers, the Military Officers Association of
    America, National Association of State Directors of Veterans
    Affairs, the Institute for Veterans and Military Families at
    Syracuse University, and the Wounded Warrior Project. I would
    like to extend this very special welcome to the American
    Legion's National Commander, James LaCourseiere, a junior from
    Connecticut, and the National Auxiliary President, Trish Ward
    from Kansas.
        Now, before I begin my remarks, I have to ask, are there
    any Californians in the room this morning? Right on, thank you.
        [Hand clap.]
        You can do better--well, let's move on. These hearings are
    important because they are a great opportunity for us to hear
    from the VSOs about issues impacting veterans in their daily
    lives. It was at these hearings in 2022 when the VSO stood in
    solidarity calling on Congress to pass the Honoring our PACT
    Act. Without you, we would never have passed the largest
    expansion of veterans healthcare and benefits since the Vietnam
    War. Without you, millions of veterans would still be
    struggling to access healthcare for the toxic exposures they
    experienced in service to our country. I will always be
    grateful to the VSOs for helping us get it done.
        Now, as I have said all along, the PACT Act was never meant
    to be a one and done. There is still so much more work to be
    done because the PACT was not only about toxic exposure, it was
    also about our promise to ensure that veterans have access to
    their care and benefits, and that we do everything we can to
    end veteran homelessness and veteran suicide, address new
    categories of illness and injury associated with military
    service, for example blast injury and military traumatic brain
    injury. Finally, achieve Guard and Reserve parity, ensure that
    VA is welcoming to all veterans who have earned the right to be
    there. Ensure that VA's infrastructure can support its mission
    and so much more.
        Unfortunately, I am not optimistic under this
    administration. I have grave concerns about how President
    Trump's Executive orders are being carried out across the
    Federal Government, most especially at the Department of
    Veterans Affairs, and how they are going to impact veterans. We
    learned on Monday that VA indiscriminately fired an additional
    1,400 employees. That means we have lost more than 2,400 VA
    employees just in the last two weeks, many of them veterans.
    And this doesn't even account for the folks who took the
    questionable fork in the road buyout offer. I question how
    purging the workforce, firing the watchdogs, and making VA
    hostile to certain veterans is helping VA serve veterans
    better.
        I think serving veterans is why we are all here. It is
    certainly why I am here and why I serve on this Committee,
    because I think there is no higher calling or honor than to
    serve those who have served.
        Now since he was sworn in, I have requested information
    from Secretary Collins about his implementation of the
    Executive orders and his employment actions against VA
    employees, none of which he has responded to. This is very
    troubling. I am also concerned about the administration's
    attacks on inclusion and accessibility and its focus on
    intentional exclusion. President Trump's remarks are making VA
    a less welcoming place for millions of veterans. In fact, one
    of his first actions was to close the VBA Office of Equity
    Assurance, the office tasked with eliminating disparities in
    the award of disability benefits as a product of
    discrimination. It is absolutely necessary having a negative
    impact on access to care and benefits for our Nation's most
    underserved veterans.
        This administration has turned the DEI into a bogeyman to
    distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to the
    issues that Americans are struggling with. Whether it is eggs
    and gas are getting more expensive and not cheaper, Medicare
    and Social Security are greater at risk than ever before, and
    this administration is too focused on tax breaks for Elon Musk
    and his billionaire friends to care.
        Now, the Chairman is quick to claim that we want to choose
    bureaucracy over veterans, and I dispute that claim. What about
    the veterans who lost their jobs to the Trump administration's
    indiscriminate firings of federal employees? What about the
    black veterans who were unable to access VA home loans due to
    redlining? What about women veterans whose service is still,
    still not valued as much as their male peers and are now
    worried about the loss of gender specific care at VA? What
    about the LGBTQ+ veterans whose health is in jeopardy because
    of the administration's denial of their very existence?
        Ensuring the institution is there to serve veterans is
    putting veterans first. It is our job to ensure access to world
    class health care and benefits to all veterans who have earned
    that right, and I take that responsibility very seriously. It
    is my hope that I can count on the VSO community to help us
    hold VA accountable to all veterans and that you will also hold
    Congress accountable by making sure we walk the talk, that we
    are carrying out our Constitutional oversight responsibilities
    by asking tough questions, demanding answers, and taking
    legislative action when needed. We cannot waver in this because
    we know that veterans are depending on us.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Ranking Member. We now yield to
    the Ranking Member of the Senate, Mr. Blumenthal, for his
    opening statement. Thanks for being here again.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL,
             RANKING MEMBER, U.S. SENATOR FROM CONNECTICUT

        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am honored
    to be here with fellow Legionnaires. Thank you all for coming
    today, and the record will reflect that we are standing room
    only today and some of the folks who attended had to be
    siphoned to a different room. Your being here sends a powerful
    message about how much you care and how you will be a voice for
    veterans. We can make the speeches from this platform, but you
    are the ones who get it done. And I am proud to be a member of
    the American Legion in Connecticut. Very proud to welcome my
    fellow Legionnaire, Jim LaCourseiere and your wife, Lisa, and
    thanks to all of your family. We know that in the military and
    in the VSOs, families serve. Spouses and children serve as well
    as we do.
        And of course, to my colleague, Joe Courtney, thank you for
    being here to do the introductions.
        We know that service in the military these day is very much
    a matter of family. Less than 1 percent of our entire
    population these days have anything to do with service in the
    military. My two sons who have served, of my four children, my
    son Matthew, whom some of you know, a Marine Corps Veteran
    served as an infantry officer in Afghanistan. My other son,
    Michael, a Navy SEAL. But they come by it because they have
    looked to you as role models, and I am very proud to have been
    in the Marine Corps Reserve myself.
        Service in the VSOs and advocacy for veterans is a
    bipartisan task. Let me just stress, it always has been, and it
    must continue to be. I am proud to serve with Senator Moran and
    to introduce with him just recently the National Guard and
    Reserve GI Bill Parity Act, which would expand the GI Bill's
    eligibility to Guard and Reserve members every day in uniform
    on account for those kinds of well-earned benefits. And with
    Senator Boozman, the Caring for Survivors Act, which would
    increase the dependency and indemnity compensation payments to
    surviving spouses. We have to continue that bipartisan
    tradition.
        And I want to thank the veterans service organizations for
    blowing the whistle on what is happening these days, literally
    every day. You heard some of them from Representative Takano,
    and I quoted yesterday from the Veterans of Foreign Wars
    Commander Lipphardt, who said, ``That the administration is
    engaged in indiscriminate firing,'' I am quoting him, ``of
    veterans in the government workforce.'' I am also calling on
    VFW members to march forth and join me on March 4th when he
    will be testifying. And I am quoting him, ``I want to see hats
    in the hallways of our Capitol as our legislative committee
    members engage with lawmakers in demanding that they `Honor the
    Contract' the government made with those who have already
    served and sacrificed so much for America and their fellow
    Americans. It is time to apply pressure and stop the
    bleeding.''
        That is on us, all of us, to be there for our veterans, to
    be their voice and face in protesting the 2,400 firings that
    have already occurred at the VA. Across the government, 6,000
    veterans have been fired from their jobs in government
    agencies. Just last night, the secretary of the VA announced
    cancellation of 875 contracts worth $2 billion. He began his
    message, ``I got some big news for you.'' And then he had a
    happy talk video which assured us that no problem, nothing to
    see here. They are all just consulting contracts. Well, in
    fact, I have a spreadsheet. I am going to ask, if there is no
    objection, Mr. Chairman, that it be made a part of our record.
        Chairman Bost. Without objection.
        Senator Blumenthal. This is a partial list, partial list of
    those 875 contracts that provide direct service to veterans for
    cancer care, for recruiting of doctors, for decontamination of
    facilities that are polluted. This list was provided to my
    office by officials within the VA. It doesn't contain
    procurement sensitive information. It is a description of some
    of those contracts and input from VA officials on why they are
    needed to help serve veterans and taxpayers. And I am asking
    the Secretary to provide us with a clean copy, a full copy,
    full disclosure and transparency. And I will ask that it be
    made part of the record when it is furnished. I have asked a
    bunch of questions.
        Chairman Bost. Without objection.

        [The information referred to appear on pages 205-208 of the
    Appendix.]

        Senator Blumenthal. Representative Takano has--I have yet
    to receive answers.
        Let me just conclude by saying, and I am going to quote the
    VA Secretary in his video, ``Don't let nameless sources, even
    Senators and House members who want to scare you and media who
    want to perpetuate the line. We are taking care of the
    veterans.'' That is belied by those cuts, by the hiring
    freezes, by the firings that are occurring in real time right
    now. And they are having a real impact in Connecticut where
    veterans are coming to me and saying, for example, the Veterans
    Crisis Line has been impacted, making a difference in people's
    lives, saving veterans from potential suicide.
        I want to thank all of you for being here today and
    providing that kind of face and voice which is so essential to
    making sure that our veterans are represented, that their
    interests are protected, and that we stop the bleeding. Thank
    you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Ranking Member. Now, once again,
    my colleagues on the other side of the aisle are choosing to
    put fear over facts. Last night they erroneously announced that
    the VA is canceling 875 contracts, hoping to create panic and
    score political points. Contracts should be reviewed if they
    are outdated, redundant or ineffective. That is good
    government. You want good government. This is about responsible
    stewardship to each one of you as a veteran who have fought to
    make sure that the facilities and the VA is providing for your
    needs at the best possible dollar because not only are you
    veterans, you are taxpayers. Not only are you taxpayers, but
    you are also this country. You have fought to make sure our
    country remains free. And if we don't sensibly handle our
    budget in this Nation and China owns our debt, you will all
    have fought for naught. Now think about that.
        Last night, Secretary Collins announced termination of
    contracts valuing $2 billion. While we do not know the final
    number of terminated contracts, it is not 875. And reviewing
    the contract is a best practice that we all should support. You
    would do it in your household. Why in the world wouldn't we do
    it at the VA? One, because it usually makes something work
    better, and two, because it usually makes room for something
    better to take its place. It is about ensuring every dollar
    spent by the VA directly supports veterans, not wasteful
    bureaucracy.
        And on a couple other issues. When those who have received
    the slips of being laid off receive those slips--in their slip,
    it says that if you think your job is essential, you can appeal
    to your supervisor and immediately have a review. And there is
    due process in place to make that no one is lost through that
    process.
        And when it comes to the hotline for our veterans
    experiencing the fear of possibly committing suicide, there
    were a few backroom employees that unfortunately were included
    in that list and they have already been put back on the job. We
    are doing the thing that we need to do for you as veterans and
    for you as taxpayers.
        And with that, we need to move on with the Committee. And
    with that, I want to now yield to our friend and colleague,
    Representative Courtney, to introduce the American Legion
    Commander.

                  INTRODUCTION BY HON. JOE COURTNEY,
                  U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CONNECTICUT

        Mr. Courtney. Great. Well, good morning and thank you,
    Chairman Bost, Chairman, Senator Moran, Ranking Member
    Blumenthal, my friend and colleague from Connecticut, and
    Ranking Member Takano.
        And again, it is a great privilege and honor to be here
    today to introduce the new National Commander of the American
    Legion, Jim LaCourseiere, who is a constituent from Plainfield,
    Connecticut in the 2nd Congressional District and also a good
    friend. We have known each other for many years. It has an
    exciting moment for Connecticut. It has been 71 years since a
    Legionnaire from Connecticut has held the position as National
    Commander, and he is somebody who has gotten there the old-
    fashioned way. He has really earned it. He is an Air Force
    veteran, served in the 1980s, served overseas in Grenada and
    Lebanon, honorably discharged, and is again, after he left the
    Service, began a 27-year journey to get to where he is today as
    National Commander.
        His post, Post 91 in Plainfield, Connecticut, is a very
    activist post, very healthy post in terms of membership. Put on
    a lot of veterans events in the district. Actually, Connecticut
    and Eastern Connecticut has the highest concentration of
    veterans in New England. We, again, are a district that has the
    oldest submarine base in America, the Groton Submarine Base.
    9,000 sailors and officers. And sometimes people don't think of
    New England necessarily as a high concentration veteran area,
    but the opposite is true.
        And as I said, Jim, you know, both as a local commander and
    also working in the state department of American Legion in
    Connecticut, again, has just been a really passionate advocate
    for advancing the goals both at the state level in Hartford and
    here in Washington, DC. But even more importantly, we have
    worked together on individual casework with veterans who have
    been struggling in terms of getting the help that they need.
    And again, I just cannot think of a better person to really
    take on the tough job of leading this great organization, the
    American Legion.
        A lot of people are very cynical these days. Obviously
    about Washington, DC, they think the only way you can ever get
    anything done down here is by hiring lobbyists or having super
    PACs. The American Legion is actually the true rebuttal of that
    in terms of just the grassroots advocacy with individual
    members coming to Members of Congress office to advocate year
    in and year out. And again, as we have heard from many of the
    speeches earlier this morning, I mean, there have been some
    really tremendous success that kind of defy the conventional
    wisdom that you can never change anything here in Washington.
        So again, it is my honor to again introduce and yield to
    Jim and wish him all the best in terms of his service in the
    next year as National Commander. And again, I think he is going
    to do great things for our country. And with that, I yield
    back. Thank you.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Congressman Courtney.
        [Applause.]
        And I would--I would now like to recognize Commander
    LaCourseiere to introduce the individuals on the panel.
        Mr. Courtney. So Jim is joined today by Julia Mathis from
    the Legislative Department of the American Legion. Director
    Cole Lyle from the VA&R. Chairman Jay Bowen also from the VA&R.
    Chairman Matt Jabaut from the great State of Maine as the VE&E.
    And Director Joseph Sharp, VE&E. And Chairman Matt Shuman of
    Legislative. And welcome to all of them for being here this
    morning.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you all for being here.
        [Applause.]
        And Commander, you are now recognized for 10 minutes for
    your opening statement.

                                PANEL I

                                  ----------

     STATEMENT OF JAMES LACOURSIERE, JR., NATIONAL COMMANDER, THE
     AMERICAN LEGION ACCOMPANIED BY JOE SHARPE, DIRECTOR, VETERANS
     EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION DIVISION; MATTHEW JABAUT, CHAIRMAN,
     VETERANS EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION COMMISSION; MATTHEW SHUMAN,
       CHAIRMAN, LEGISLATIVE COMMISSION; JULIA MATHIS, DIRECTOR,
     LEGISLATIVE DIVISION; JOHN ``JAY'' BOWEN, CHAIRMAN, VETERANS
    AFFAIRS AND REHABILITATION COMMISSION; AND COLE LYLE, DIRECTOR,
              VETERANS AFFAIRS AND REHABILITATION DIVISION

        Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you, Chairman Bost, and thank you
    for the very kind introduction Congressman Courtney. I would
    also like to give a special shout-out to Senator Richard
    Blumenthal, also from Connecticut.
        Chairman Bost, before I begin, with your permission, I
    would like to introduce a few very important people to me. Sons
    of the American Legion, National Commander Joseph Navarrete of
    New Mexico, American Legion Auxiliary National President Trish
    Ward of Kansas, American Legion National Officers serving with
    me this year, and past National Commanders of the American
    Legion. And last, my incredible wife, Lisa.
        [Applause.]
        Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, Chairman Moran,
    Ranking Member Blumenthal, on behalf of nearly 3 million
    members of the American Legion family who proudly serve
    communities, states and our Nation every day, we deeply
    appreciate the opportunity to discuss our legislative
    priorities for the 119th Congress. Your distinguished
    Committees focus almost exclusively on our Nation's sacred
    obligation to ensure that veterans of the United States Armed
    Forces receive the best health care, disability benefits and
    respect they deserve after their service.
        But I want to put that obligation into a slightly different
    context.
        It begins with military service. We are all aware of the
    recruiting challenges our branches of service have faced in
    recent years. One frequently stated reason directly points to
    our work in support for veterans. A propensity to serve.
    Military service is an important commitment. A major part of
    the American Legion's purpose is to make sure that commitment
    provides worthwhile during and after time spent in uniform.
        Over the decades, the American Legion has fought to
    establish and provide continuous oversight for the Department
    of Veterans Affairs to ensure care for all who have borne the
    battle. We drafted and fought to pass the GI Bill and to
    improve it regularly over the years, so it stays relevant for
    new generations.
        To empower those who served with opportunities to succeed.
    We created a network of trained accredited service officers to
    represent veterans in matters with the VA to ensure that
    veterans understand the laws that have been passed to help them
    with health care and disability benefits they earned and
    deserve. The American Legion demanded accountability for those
    who were sickened or died due to toxic exposure, and we worked
    to reduce any stigma associated with seeking mental health
    care. The American Legion believes that each one of us can and
    must Be The One to help just one other veteran overcome suicide
    risk.
        Peer-to-peer support. Put simply, it is what we do. If we
    fail to live up to these important covenants, the thanks of a
    grateful Nation to those who have sacrificed so much simply
    falls flat. Young people have been told that military service
    will leave them broken or unsupported in the end, will think
    twice about their propensity to serve at all. And that is a
    matter of National Security.
        We need to change the narrative. We can change the
    narrative. Service in the United States Armed Forces is hard
    enough that service should not create unnecessary hardships. We
    stand by federal efforts to create a more efficient, cost
    effective VA. We must also look closely at connections that can
    be made better before discharge because they weigh heavily on
    life afterward.
        Among our legislative priorities, and has been the case for
    many years, is completion and implementation of an electronic
    health records management system that documents deployment and
    medical history from the day of enlistment throughout a
    veteran's life. As Chairman Bost has stated, veterans are also
    taxpayers, and billions of our taxpayer dollars have been spent
    on this. The result has been delays, unsuccessful pilot
    programs, flawed infrastructure, and the continued inability of
    the Department of Defense and VA to make a transition seamless
    as possible for those leaving service and entering their lives
    as veterans.
        Another concern we hear continuously from the newest
    generation is the ineffectiveness of an outdated Transition
    Assistance Program, also known as TAP. Members of the Armed
    Forces deserve the chance to convert their military training
    and skills into meaningful post-service careers, and that takes
    an effective, outcome-driven TAP program. A program that takes
    into account all the challenges of transition from financial
    knowledge to career opportunity to mental health services.
    Otherwise, all that training and all those skills in the United
    States invested in these service members are left behind when
    they could be helping drive the United States economy forward.
        Veterans left to confront difficult transitions without
    proper preparation are at risk for a number of bad outcomes,
    not the least of which is suicide. According to the VA's own
    research, veterans are the most at risk for suicide in the
    first 12 months after discharge. Additional research has shown
    that financial strain accounts for 20 percent of the top 20
    risk factors for suicide. A hard look at TAP, which needs to
    begin earlier for those nearing separation, can lead to a
    stronger model that will ease transition and advance the
    propensity to serve.
        Military service becomes a more worthwhile pursuit when the
    rewards in that service are valuable.
        Chairman Bost, there may be no greater incentive to serve
    in the United States Armed Forces than the GI Bill. There were
    10 planks in the original GI Bill, not just free college
    tuition. Also included were health care, the ability to
    affordably purchase a home, business opportunities, and
    occupational training for the severely disabled so they could
    reenter civilian life empowered with purpose. Many said the GI
    Bill would break the Treasury. In fact it returns $7 for every
    taxpayer dollar invested. It built the American middle class,
    which our Nation has enjoyed for over half a century and still
    enjoys today.
        And now, as we continue to seek congressional action to
    provide GI Bill Parity for National Guard and Reserve veterans,
    we must ask, why wouldn't we? All we have is proof that it
    works. We can change the narrative about the outcomes of
    military service. We can change it with tangible steps such as
    highly efficient VA health care and benefits systems that are
    easier to access and navigate. Regardless of whether you live
    in a big city or in rural Kansas or Illinois, using telehealth,
    community providers, or traditional VA facilities, mental
    health support without stigmatization and advance what we call
    Post Traumatic Growth (PTG) to empower those so effective to
    not only recover but to thrive. A TAP program and GI Bill that
    truly live up to the promises our Nation has made to those who
    have chosen the path of military service.
        A propensity to serve simply means understanding the value
    of the commitment I and my fellow Legionnaires in this room
    have made. It is a lifelong commitment, and we are all proud of
    our service because we know America is worth it. We are duty
    bound as veterans who believe in a strong America to do all we
    can to show that worth.
        In the American Legion, we don't just talk about these
    issues, we live them. So far, our academic partner, Columbia
    University, the American Legion have trained more than 12,000
    people nationwide to identify risk for veteran suicide and take
    the right steps to prevent it through our Be The One mission.
    Last year, American Legion service officers helped more than
    1.2 million veterans free of charge with their VA disability
    claims and resulted in $21 billion in awarded claims to
    veterans. Each year the American Legion at the local, state and
    National levels is involved with more than 1,100 career events
    to help veterans and families in transition.
        The American Legion family also spends millions of
    volunteer hours and donates billions of dollars annually to
    support VA facilities nationwide. We also mentor thousands of
    young people each year and award millions of dollars in
    scholarships to help them become productive, responsible
    citizens.
        And when natural disasters strike, from hurricanes in the
    Carolinas to wildfires in Los Angeles, our members leaned into
    harm's way and provide relief. American Legion family post
    squadrons and units have been vital partners in recovery from
    disaster for over a century.
        Like you, we all took an oath to support and defend the
    Constitution, the United States of America. We work with our
    government of this great Nation that pledged our lives to
    defend because we want to see America continue to prosper.
        On behalf of the Nation's largest veterans service
    organization, I thank you for the opportunity to share these
    thoughts with you and look forward to working with this new
    Congress, especially as we draw near to the 250th anniversary
    of our great Nation's independence.
        Chairman Bost, Chairman Moran, I thank you for the
    opportunity to address your critical Committees and I look
    forward to answering your questions you or other Members may
    have. Thank you.
        [Standing ovation.]

        [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCoursiere appears on page
    57 of the Appendix.]

        Senator Moran [presiding]. Commander LaCourseiere, thank
    you for your very forceful testimony. Thank you for your
    presence, and your colleagues here today.
        We were going to have a round of 3 minute questions, and I
    would ask my colleagues because of the length of the day, that
    we work hard to stay within that 3 minutes.
        And I now recognize myself for that first 3 minutes.
        Commander, are you hearing concerns from veterans whose
    conditions are not covered by presumption of service-connection
    or whose locations or years of service are not included in
    existing presumptions? If so, are you voicing these concerns to
    the VA and what are you being told by the Department of
    Veterans Affairs?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Moran, the American Legion cares
    deeply about this and how it impacts our veterans. At this
    time, to give you a more clear response, I would like to turn
    it over to Director Cole Lyle of VA&R.
        Chairman Moran. Director.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Mr.
    Chairman. The American Legion obviously lobbied very hard for
    the passage of the PACT Act. I think the greatest mechanism
    that the PACT Act created was the ability for the VA to
    consider new presumptive conditions in a faster, timelier
    manner so we don't get into another Agent Orange situation
    where veterans have to wait years and decades to receive the
    benefits and healthcare that they deserve from specific
    conditions. I am not aware of any specific conditions not
    currently covered by the list of presumptives under the PACT
    Act, but I am happy to take that for the record.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAL Response: The American Legion recently met with veterans who were
     active duty at inactive nuclear test sites (recognized by the EPA as
     containing actively radioactive soil) suffering from a variety of
     cancers (lymphomas I believe were the most common). They also reported
     reproductive concerns; one veteran had three live born children die
     before the age of 10.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAL Response (cont.): Families stationed at Atsugi base in Japan have
     reported several cancers and respiratory conditions common in the
     population.

    Pearl Harbor Joint Base had a water contamination crisis in 2021, which
     affected families and service members stationed there. It took a week
     for the families to be told the water was contaminated and \1/3\ of
     them sought medical care. They reported rashes and persistent
     migraines, but we are unaware of any specific cancers or other chronic
     physiological issues. It's too soon to know long term issues.

    These issues have been relayed to VA officials, and we have not yet
     received feedback.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Chairman Moran. Let me--thank you for your answer. Let me
    follow up with a reminder that Title II of the PACT Act
    established a new framework to make decisions regarding new
    presumptions of service-connection, which hopefully intended to
    make it easier for non-toxic exposed veterans to file for,
    receive, and receive disability compensation. Over two years
    after the enactment of the PACT Act, I would ask if the VA is
    utilizing that process in consultation with you and other VSOs
    to give you the opportunity to provide that information.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the VA is supposed to
    have quarterly briefings and updates in collaboration with the
    veterans service organizations. They have not been occurring on
    a regular basis, and we have expressed concerns to VA officials
    about those meetings to continue to have a collaborative
    discussion on new presumptive conditions.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, I will do the same thing.
        Commander, could you speak to the important role that State
    Veterans Homes play in caring for our Nation's veterans. And
    why, in at least in my view, it is critically important to
    increase resources for the creation of new homes as well as
    well as renovate and expand existing home?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Moran, again, thank you very much
    for that question. Because the American Legion cares about this
    with our veterans and how they are impacted by it, for more
    clarity, I would like to turn that back over to Director Cole
    once again.
        Chairman Moran. Director.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Mr.
    Chairman. State Veterans Homes obviously play a critical role
    in the long term care and health services of our Nation's
    veterans. You know, the American Legion will continue to
    advocate for funding and for the creation of State Veterans
    Homes in support of our Nation's veterans.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you. I now recognize the Ranking
    Member of the House, Representative Takano.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairman Moran. Commander
    LaCourseiere, have you seen the VFW statement related to VA's
    indiscriminate firing of veterans?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano, no, I have not read
    that yet, but I did hear about that and after this conference I
    will look into it and then I will discuss it with our D.C.
    staff.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you. Do you agree with some of the
    sentiments in that statement that the loss of thousands of VA
    employees, many of them veterans, is troubling?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano, because the
    American Legion fights to protect and oversee the care and
    well-being of our veterans on a daily basis, once again, I
    would like to turn this back over to Director Cole.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you. Director, Mr. Cole.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Mr. Commander, and thank you for the
    question, Ranking Member Takano. Obviously there is a lot of
    anxiety about this in the--in the veteran community. We two
    days ago spoke, we held a leadership panel with senior career
    officials of the VA who actually did express happiness with the
    liberal exemption policy, as they put it. The firings
    themselves, we spoke with the Secretary of Veterans Affairs
    yesterday. Today, our testimony is our statement that we did
    have a conversation with him and concerns about the clarity in
    which these firings were occurring and that we would like to
    have a productive conversation with him and with your
    Committees going forward about how it would impact veterans.
        But the career officials that we spoke with, I asked this
    direct question and said, ``do you anticipate any impacts of
    these firings on veteran direct healthcare and benefits?'' And
    they did not express any concern that they would, but we will
    continue to have productive conversations with them.
        Mr. Takano. What about the veterans themselves who have had
    stellar performance records, but whose memo which stated that
    they were fired because of their performance is one of the
    reasons? Do you have any concerns about actual veterans who
    were dismissed with such memos?
        Mr. Lyle. Sir, I--I am not aware of any specific cases. I
    am happy to take that for the record and work with your office
    on those specific cases. But I will say the American Legion,
    whether it be government employees or private sector employees,
    stands ready to assist veterans dealing with unemployment,
    financial challenges, and other things.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TAL Response: In the time passed since this question was posed, there
     have been court rulings to reinstate those who were fired by VA.
     Although we are aware of veterans with good performance as a federal
     employee taking the Delayed Retirement Program, we have not encountered
     specific cases of a veteran being fired due to alleged performance
     issues with a track record of good performance.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Mr.--Commander LaCourseiere, I
    see in your written testimony the American Legion recognizes
    the importance of balancing the use of community care with VA
    direct care and that VA's agent infrastructure is a contributor
    to the misbalance we are seeing. How do you think we should
    address this to ensure that there is always a VA for veterans
    to go to?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Takano in all respect and
    to save on time, I am going to turn that over to Director Cole
    again, please.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. Community care and the
    codification of access standards, I think is or the American
    Legion thinks is the right way to go to ensure veterans can get
    the care they need when they need it. I think to a large
    extent, infrastructure obviously plays a huge role in the VA's
    internal capacity to be able to care for them. And we have
    expressed a desire for increased appropriations for major and
    minor construction, an increase in flexibility of leasing so
    that the VA is able to handle--preferably get the care at the
    VA rather than sending them out into the community. But
    ultimately the veteran must come first, and that decision must
    be between a veteran and their provider based on their best
    medical interest.
        Chairman Moran. Senator Blumenthal.
        Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I quoted earlier
    Secretary Collins who said that you should disregard Senators
    and House members who want to scare you. We are telling you the
    truth and it is scary, and I urge you to ask for the facts
    about those VA employees who have been fired. Employees with
    years of service who have good performance reviews and more
    important than even their fate, they serve veterans. They are
    the ones who process those benefits under the PACT Act.
        One of the most common constituent complaints I receive and
    you as Legionnaires, probably with your fellow veterans here,
    is the delay in processing benefits. These are not gifts. They
    are not charitable handouts. You have earned them under the
    PACT Act, under all of the government programs that keep
    promises to you. The VA is breaking those promises. And it
    isn't even the VA. It is Elon Musk who is using algorithms and
    AI formulas. His tech bros are applying them to decide well, so
    and so is dispensable, this benefits processor, these doctors.
    We need to reestablish the kind of oversight and supervision
    that they are eliminating through abolishing and firing the
    inspectors general.
        I want to thank you Commander for your testimony. ``The
    hiring freeze has the potential to impact millions of veterans,
    particularly those waiting on adjudication of claims post-PACT
    Act,'' that indicates to me that you share this concern. Do you
    know of veterans, Commander, who have been delayed in terms of
    benefits received?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ranking Member Blumenthal, thank you very
    much for that question and everything. That is a topic that we
    are very concerned about because we do care about the well-
    being of our veterans and their families. But at this time,
    once again, I would like to defer it over to Director Cole.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you, Ranking
    Member Blumenthal. We, again, spoke with those VA officials and
    raised similar concerns. I know the last year VA officials said
    that they were aiming at VBA and the Board of Veterans' Appeals
    to get back to pre-Pandemic lump luck levels by the end of
    2025. I asked them in consideration with all the personnel
    changes, the hiring freeze, return to work, all of them, if
    they anticipated any negative effect on veteran benefits, and
    they indicated that it would not affect their ability. They
    said that that goal to get back to pre-Pandemic levels by the
    end of this year was still the target.
        Senator Blumenthal. Well, let me suggest that you apply a
    high degree of skepticism.
        Mr. Lyle. Yes, sir.
        Senator Blumenthal. To the happy talk and smiley faces of
    the VA who obviously have a party line to espouse, and talk to
    your members, talk to veterans, talk to real people who are
    suffering real impacts, not just on the processing of benefits
    in a timely way, but also Veterans Crisis Line that save people
    from suicide. Recruiting of doctors. There are shortages.
        I am willing to bet in most of your VA facilities, doctors
    and nurses, they need to be recruited and retained. Go down the
    kinds of services that are essential to health care and
    benefits. You can't fire 2,400 people without there being an
    impact. I yield back.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator. Representative
    Radewagen of American Samoa is recognized.

                  HON. AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,
                U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM AMERICAN SAMOA

        Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Members.
    Talofa lava. I want to thank you for holding this important
    hearing today, as well as thanking the panel for being here.
    Thank you for your sacrifice and service to our Nation.
        My home district is almost 10,000 miles from Washington,
    DC, so I am just wondering if we have a veteran or two who has
    traveled all the way in from the Pacific Islands. Probably not,
    but I thought I would ask.
        Mr. Takano. Ah.
        [Applause.]
        Mrs. Radewagen. All right, thank you so much.
        I wanted to say that just a few weeks ago, I traveled by
    car down South and visited eight military installations, and I
    also invited the American Legion to come along. And so we were
    able to visit nine American Legion posts, and I was honored to
    spend time and have little town hall meetings along the way
    with hundreds of veterans. And so I want to thank your
    leadership for helping to put this together. And my special
    thanks to American Legion's Ariel De Jesus for accompanying my
    husband and me on this rather lengthy trip.
        [Applause.]
        Commander LaCourseiere, the American Legion supports the
    Restore VA Accountability Act of 2025. Why is it important to
    provide additional tools to address poor performance and ensure
    that VA is serving all veterans with the highest standards,
    Commander?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you for that question, Ms.
    Radewagen. American Legion, once again, we do care about the
    care and well-being of our veterans. I would like to turn this
    back over to Director Cole again.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you,
    Congresswoman. I know that Ariel very much enjoyed his trip
    with you through those states, eight military bases.
        The American Legion has several resolutions in support of
    accountability and efficiency at the Department of Veterans
    Affairs. We believe that the VA should be an agency that is
    accountable for to the veterans that it serves. We know that
    last year the Office of Inspector General produced 100 and some
    odd reports to the tune of about $9.2 billion in monetary
    impact. So we know that it exists. There is efficiencies to be
    made, and we have supported the Accountability Act in the past.
        Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the
    balance of my time.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Representative. Senator Tillis
    is recognized.

                           HON. THOM TILLIS,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH CAROLINA

        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome to all of
    you and thank you for your service and continuing to serve. I
    think it was Senator Blumenthal that said that real people are
    suffering with real impacts. Did that just start three weeks
    ago in the VA, real people suffering real impacts, or do we
    have unacceptable wait times and fewer options for members who
    are in stress? So, in other words, is this a new phenomenon or
    do we have work to do that predated the transition, Commander?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Tillis, thank you very much for
    that question and everything. And I would like to start by just
    saying that any wait time is----
        Senator Tillis. Unacceptable.
        Mr. LaCoursiere [continuing]. Unacceptable.
        Senator Tillis. That was an unfair question because----
        Mr. LaCoursiere. No, no, no. But we would like to respond
    to that----
        Senator Tillis. Yes.
        Mr. LaCoursiere [continuing]. A professional manner from
    the American Legion.
        Senator Tillis. Well, good. Let me just revise what I am
    particularly interested in. I don't know, and like I said
    yesterday in the DAV hearing, that I am a very boring
    management consultant that is driven by facts. So what I want
    to know is of the terminations that we have seen or the
    separations today, have they been stratified in a way to where
    I know if they are physicians, physical therapists, nurses,
    people on the front line, critical positions, if they are in
    the customer facing organization, I just simply--I am asking
    for that information and if we found some bad separations, I
    will make it known. I am just wondering whether or not you all
    have access to that information yet. And Ms. Mathis, I will
    leave it to you.
        Ms. Mathis. Thank you, Senator Tillis and thank you
    Commander. We do not have that information in hand right now.
    We have intention to be in close dialogue with the VA, but also
    with the veterans to find out exactly what the issues are and
    to monitor what will be the impacts. It does matter to us.
        Senator Tillis. I want that as quick, I mean, you have got
    the eyes on the ground, and if there is a personnel separation
    that has had an appreciable impact on serving veterans, then
    call me. I will be the first one to go to the Senate floor and
    say this has to stop. But what I think is unhelpful is when we
    just have this incoming going in every direction, people are
    only talking about the top line political comments that get you
    on TV. They are not talking about trying to measure whether or
    not there are real impacts that we need to worry about, whether
    or not we need to communicate that if there are any further
    reductions in force or realignments, we need to be advised on
    it very, very quickly.
        So I would really--you all are extraordinary organization.
    I see some familiar faces and friends here at the dais that I
    wish I had more time to speak with. But as we go through this
    transformation, I am holding out the hope that this is all
    about getting the most critical people, the most important
    service levels for veterans improved. There is a thesis here
    that this is somehow, it just seems odd for me to accept just
    on its face that this is all with an intent to degrade
    opportunities for veterans to get a receipt, get another
    payment on a debt we can never repay. Why does anybody think
    that that is politically or operationally sustainable?
        So to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that
    want to focus on the top line, that is fine. We are in a
    Committee hearing, there are TVs on and cameras on. But behind
    the scenes, why don't we look and really determine to what
    extent, if any, these reductions are having an appreciable
    impact on the service levels that I believe that every veteran
    deserves. They should be top quartile.
        And I thank you all. As you get information, make sure you
    report back to me. God bless you all and anybody in and around
    North Carolina out there?
        Voice. Arff.
        There you go. Thank you.
        Chairman Moran. Thank you, Senator. Congressman Conaway,
    you are recognized for 3 minutes.

                           HON. HERB CONAWAY,
                  U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW JERSEY

        Dr. Conaway. I think I just realized how to recognize
    someone from North Carolina.
        Thank you Chairman Bost and thank you certainly to the
    American Legion. As a fellow Legionnaire, I am certainly very
    pleased to be with you today.
        As a doctor, I am troubled and greatly disappointed by the
    actions taken by the VA to terminate nursing assistants, supply
    technicians, schedulers who support doctors in their work and
    their shared work to provide life saving treatment to veterans.
    Without adequate support staff, physicians will be overwhelmed
    with scheduling, paperwork, and other administrative tasks,
    leaving them with less time to care for veterans. And we have
    heard that we have lost a contractor that had great success in
    recruiting much needed physicians into the VA workforce. And of
    course, these terminations go to the very heart of the wait
    times that all of us find so unacceptable.
        My staff met just yesterday with employees who worked as
    trainers for the many persons who were discharged, terminated
    from the Veterans Crisis Line. Now we know and we have heard
    testimony, written testimony from Commander LaCourseiere that
    we are seeing marked increases in the use of the Veterans
    Crisis Line. Many calls are coming in today and I heard in my
    office just yesterday from local American Legionnaires about
    the 22 men that we are losing, and women, that we are losing
    every day to suicide. So it is particularly concerning to hear
    about and understand that these cuts have taken place.
        So could you elaborate, Commander, on the implications of
    understaffing the crisis line and what impact do you think
    these cuts are going to have on veterans and family, not only
    in the crisis line, but in these critical service areas that
    support the work that the VA does to provide life saving care?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Congressman Conaway, thank you very much
    for that question. As we stated earlier, the American Legion,
    we do care about all of our veterans, but we also care that
    they get the proper care in a timely manner that they deserve,
    and we need to continue the peer-to-peer support and making
    sure that they have the right tools that they need with VA
    health care.
        We are aimed and focused on reducing veteran suicide. Every
    suicide matters. We care about that. That is why we have our Be
    The One mission. But to give more definition to your question,
    I am going to turn it over to Director Cole. Thank you, sir.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you Commander, and thank you Congressman
    for the question. As the Commander stated, suicide is one of
    the American Legion's top priorities with the Be The One
    mission. We at local posts don't hear--we hear often from
    veterans who have been personally affected by this. So it is
    something we are very passionate about.
        I would say in terms of the Veterans Crisis Line, you know,
    we did hear about the two employees that were fired and then
    reinstated two days later. There have been some concerns about
    how some of the Executive orders work in concert with each
    other. For instance, the hiring freeze, VCL crisis responders
    were exempted, but return to work was not exempted, which will
    make it harder for the VA to hire those folks, and they will
    have to potentially take silent monitors, what are called
    silent monitors, and place them as crisis responders.
        So there could be a capacity issue. We have not seen
    anything currently and we are working collaboratively, and we
    will communicate with the department and with your Committees
    about this issue going forward.
        Dr. Conaway. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bost [presiding]. Thank you. Senator Hassan, you
    are recognized for 3 minutes.

                       HON. MARGARET WOOD HASSAN,
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

        Senator Hassan. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to our Chairs and
    Ranking Members, I am grateful for this hearing. And Commander
    and all of your colleagues and all of the veterans in the room,
    welcome. I honor my Dad's World War II service and his memory
    by being a member of the Auxiliary. So thank you for welcoming
    me to that as well.
        [Applause.]
        And any Granite Staters out there? Anybody from New
    Hampshire? Excellent. Thank you and welcome.
        And look, I don't have a question about the recent events
    at the VA. I will just say this: First, the administration
    fired the inspector general at the VA. Then they laid off 2,400
    people. Now we are seeing all of these contract cuts that may,
    in fact, impact essential services to veterans. My job is to
    ask why. And my job as a former Governor is to say you don't
    make indiscriminate cuts. You don't churn employees. You don't
    just do categories of cuts willy-nilly. You study. You look at
    ways you can coordinate and streamline services. And you look
    at the impact before you make this kind of layoff and take
    these kinds of actions. And the inspector general, of course,
    is the person who is charged with going after waste, fraud, and
    abuse, and to fire that person right away is really troubling
    to me. So I hope we will have some more transparency, I hope
    the Secretary will come, and I hope he will explain what they
    have done and why he thinks it is good for the VA and, more
    importantly, good for our veterans.
        Commander, I did want to ask about improving VA facilities.
    I want to start by thanking the American Legion for your
    continued advocacy on behalf of all veterans. In your written
    testimony, you discussed the fact that the VA medical
    facilities are, on average, roughly 60 years old and in need of
    significant repairs. That is something we are very familiar
    with in New Hampshire. The Manchester VA Medical Center is
    almost 75 years old. And twice in the past eight years, pipes
    have burst in the medical center, causing significant damage
    and delay of care for veterans, cancellation of entire
    procedures. I have worked with the VA to help address this
    issue, and I am going to keep doing that. But we all know
    veterans in New Hampshire, veterans around the country deserve
    the best care at the best facilities. They have earned that.
        So, Commander, can you please discuss the need for robust
    commitment to improving VA's infrastructure and how that will
    benefit veterans?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ms. Hassan, thank you very much for the
    question and the statement as well. The American Legion, we do
    truly care about the conditions of our facilities because that
    affects the well and care being for our veterans as patients
    and everything. And that is the reason the American Legion, we
    have the system we are saving. But to give a more defined
    answer, I would like to turn it back over to Director Cole
    again.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you Commander, and thank you Senator for
    the question. Obviously, the infrastructure problem in recent
    years has been exacerbated by community care in the sense that
    more veterans are eligible to receive care in the community
    because the VA can't provide the care in a certain reasonable
    time or distance.
        Preferably, you know, the VA is a one-stop shop for
    veterans, and VA facilities that are in need of modernization
    should be modernized. I think historically the recent
    administrations have submitted budgets to Congress in the
    neighborhood of $2-3 billion dollars for major and minor
    construction infrastructure projects.
        Senator Hassan. Yes.
        Mr. Lyle. And obviously in a budget constrained
    environment, the VA has to make some choices about where that
    occurs. So I think there is definitely room for improvement in
    terms of Congress's commitment to VA infrastructure,
    particularly with codification of access standards.
        Senator Hassan. Thank you very much. And Mr. Chair, I will
    follow up with the witnesses about some issues with C&P exams
    that I know we are all concerned about. Thank you.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Representative Hamadeh.

                           HON. ABE HAMADEH,
                    U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARIZONA

        Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And as a member of
    the American Legion Post 107 in Phoenix, Arizona, it is an
    honor to be with all of you here today. And I know you are
    continuing your service by being a voice for so many veterans.
    So thank you all for coming and thank you for all the
    volunteers.
        Now, Commander, President Trump in his last administration
    championed veterans choice in health care and I know it is a
    top priority in his administration right now. But we continue
    to hear stories about veterans facing long wait times and
    denials for community care. How can the VA ensure bureaucrats
    can't arbitrarily deny veterans their right to seek community
    care?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Thank you, Mr. Hamadeh, for that question
    and everything because we do care about the care and well-being
    of our veterans and everything. That is a priority topic for us
    and everything. But for more clarity, I would like to turn it
    over to Director Cole.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you. And I am actually going to defer to my
    chairman, Chairman Jay Bowen.
        Mr. Bowen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Cole, and thank
    you, sir, for the question. We certainly do care about ensuring
    our veterans get the care that they need, when they need it and
    where they need it. That is priority one for the American
    Legion. If that is through community care, that is good as long
    as we have the VA providing the oversight necessary to ensure
    that the standards are kept.
        Mr. Hamadeh. And what are you hearing from veterans about
    their ability to access mental health care in their communities
    under the VA's current approval process?
        Mr. Bowen. We are hearing very good and not so good. It
    just depends on the region of the country and the VA Medical
    Center and the community care area. It is probably like any
    other place and civilian care, too, you can hear very good and
    you can hear very bad. When we hear anything that is not up to
    standards, we certainly investigate, and we work toward getting
    that fixed, working with the VA to get that done.
        Mr. Hamadeh. Right, but it is, you know, veterans should be
    treated well, no matter if they are from the inner cities or
    from the suburban areas or from rural areas. And I think we
    need to make sure that we have a common standard across the
    country. I know that is a top priority for you all. Thank you,
    Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Now, I recognize a person that
    formerly was in the House and served on our committee in the
    House but now is in the Senate, and he looks really good in the
    Senate, and my neighbor, Representative Banks or Senator Banks,
    I am sorry.

                            HON. JIM BANKS,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM INDIANA

        Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is an honor to
    be back, and it is an honor to be the first Hoosier to serve on
    the Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee in a long time. So I
    spent six years serving with Chairman Bost. Thank you. And I
    want to thank all the Hoosier Legionnaires who are in the room.
    Thank you for coming all the way from Indiana to be a part of
    this hearing. And to all of you, when you come and educate us
    on your priorities, it helps us fight hard to make sure that
    our Nation's heroes get the service that they have earned from
    this country, and your work here today helps us in a big way to
    do that.
        Mr. Commander LaCourseiere, as you know, Indianapolis is
    going to be hosting the National Veterans Creative Arts
    Festival in May. [Applause.] Presented by the American Legion
    and the VA.
        This festival is a great opportunity for veterans to
    showcase their work, and these creative projects are an
    important part of many of our veterans rehabilitation. Can you
    tell us more about the event and the value that it provides?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Banks, thank you very much for
    that question. The Creative Arts Festival is actually a very
    huge highlight. You know, it brings out the best of the best of
    our veterans. They sit back and they use their creativity in
    various facets, whether artistic painting, playing a piano,
    whatever the case may be. It is another form for them of their
    therapy, their therapy that they must need to decompress and
    deal with mental health in various aspects.
        Mental health, as we all know, is a very large scope, and
    if they can sit back and find a way to tunnel it in, in their
    way without using drugs or anything along that scope, because
    we sat back. And years back, we sat back, and we medicated our
    veterans. They came home, they seek mental health assistance,
    they would go to the VA, receive a bottle of pills, and be sent
    home. That is not cutting it. We want our veterans to be able
    to think clearly, but we also want them to survive. They can
    help us grow the economy by being on this side of the earth.
        So, yes, the American Legion's Creative Arts program, to me
    is a very high profile and great program because it is for all
    veterans.
        Senator Banks. Very well put. Indiana is very proud to host
    this event in May, and we thank the American Legion for
    providing that opportunity for our Nation's veterans. I look
    forward to highlighting it. Thank you for choosing Indianapolis
    as the destination for that event in May.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Senator. We now recognize
    Congresswoman Cherfilus-McCormick for 3 minutes.

                    HON. SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
                    U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA

        Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am
    going to start by echoing the comments that I made yesterday.
    Any cut that has the potential to hurt just one veteran must be
    taken off the table immediately. Our veterans deserve better
    than to be collateral damage from hasty cost-cutting measures
    such as misguided efforts that not only burden American
    taxpayers with greater expenses but also deprive our brave men
    and women of the services that they rightfully deserve. Let's
    prioritize our veterans and ensure that they receive the
    pride--the support, and the help that they have earned.
        For example, to take the Veterans Crisis Line, last week it
    was reported that DOGE fired employees who worked the Veterans
    Crisis Line and then subsequently scrambled to rehire them. In
    fact, a large majority of our Veterans Crisis Line workers are
    in fact veterans themselves who have lost their jobs. This, to
    me, is appalling and ridiculous.
        Mr. LaCourseiere, is firing workers for the Veterans Crisis
    Line in line with your recommendation under the B1 campaign to
    train 100,000 people in suicide prevention?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Ms. McCormick, thank you very much for
    that question. Because we do care about our veterans and
    everything, but I also want to not waste your time, to give you
    a clear answer, I am going to turn that over to Director Cole,
    please.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander, and thank you,
    Congresswoman. There has been a lot of changes very quickly in
    the last month. We are encouraged that all critical essential
    personnel have been exempted. And the VA's four agencies have
    assured us that the exemption policy is very liberal. If a
    supervisor at the VA sees one of their personnel in a mission-
    critical position, that they have the ability to go to
    leadership and that position to be exempted.
        I think VHA is 300,000 so far. VCA has 15 occupations
    dealing with families and maintaining cemeteries. Particularly,
    with the Veterans Crisis Line, it is a critically important
    tool for crisis intervention to attack the veteran suicide
    issue. And we have not heard of any direct impacts to veterans
    based on the personnel actions by the administration. But as we
    mentioned earlier, we are closely monitoring those and we will
    work with this Committee and with the VA to ensure that there
    is no direct harm to veterans.
        Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Now, do you believe we should be
    investing more in growing the actual staff to deal with the
    veterans suicide prevention line and to deal with veterans
    health, mental health?
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Congresswoman. Yes, I think the
    Veterans Crisis Line is an important tool in crisis
    intervention. But I think the broader problem of suicide
    prevention, the point of Be The One is to get non-traditional
    approaches, upstream problems solved before the veteran even
    gets to that crisis point. So I think our efforts are focused
    in Be The One and, more broadly, in government policy to ensure
    that the VA is starting to attack those upstream problems like
    financial stress, relationship stress, housing, transportation,
    things like that, before it gets to the point where they need
    to call the veterans crisis line, or they need to go to the
    emergency room for an emergency mental health appointment.
        Ms. Mathis. If I may add to that?
        Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Yes.
        Ms. Mathis. We are also very engaged in growing peer-to-
    peer support. And we are also, the American Legion very much
    supports the Fox Grant Program for these alternative methods,
    community based methods to get veterans who are in crisis or
    perhaps maybe just floundering a little bit get connected with
    other veterans who can help put an arm around them and maybe
    bring them back to a little bit safer ground. We are a big fan
    of the veteran-to-veteran and peer-to-peer support. So whatever
    programs that these Committees can support to do that, we will
    do our best on this side to push that out to the greatest reach
    we can get. Thank you.
        Mrs. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. Well, thank you
    everyone for your service and for being here. And we are
    committed to make sure we are investing in those programs that
    would help all of our veterans. Thank you very much.
        Chairman Bost. Senator King, you are now recognized for 3
    minutes.

                        HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

        Senator King. Thank you. The first thing I want to do is
    thank everyone for being here. The Legion has never had a more
    important moment than this one to defend our veterans, to
    defend the Veterans Administration, to defend the service that
    is being provided to veterans. We need your voice. Yes, it is
    early in this process. We don't know where it is going. We
    don't know how many more firings there will be. You have got to
    let us know what is going on on the ground. That is a very
    important role that you have.
        And Matthew, I am delighted to see Maine at the table.
    Thank you for being here, sir.
        Let me put this into a little bit of perspective. We know
    we have had 2,400 firings in the last two weeks, but don't
    forget we had a hiring freeze, and with normal attrition, we
    probably lost another 2,000 people. So we are really talking
    about almost 5,000 people out of the VA service. And it bothers
    me when people talk about bureaucrats. They say we are going to
    protect the doctors, and we are going to protect the direct
    service workers. If nobody is there to answer the phone when a
    veteran calls for an appointment, that is a denial of benefits.
    And so, this idea that bureaucrats aren't important really
    galls me.
        And the Secretary the other day said, after all these cuts,
    in fact, veterans are going to notice a change for the better.
    It reminds me of the old country song, ``who are you going to
    believe, me or your own lying eyes?'' I want you to tell us
    what is actually happening. The PACT Act backlog is not going
    to be helped by removing people who are in the service of other
    veterans.
        Now, I do want to talk about transition for a minute. Be
    The One is one of the most important initiatives going on in
    the country right now. Thank you for staffing that, for setting
    it up and for making it actually happen. I have thought----
        [Applause.]
        I have a simple formula for transition. I think the Defense
    Department should spend as much money on transition as they do
    on recruitment.
        [Applause.]
        And one of the things that we are working on here is
    something called the TAP Promotion Act, which would bring VSOs
    into the process of the transition. We have got to have a warm
    handoff. I think you quoted a number, the bulk, not the bulk,
    but a very large percentage of the suicides are in the first
    year or two after transition. That is a place where we really
    need to give some effort.
        Commander, tell me about how important you think transition
    is.
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Mr. King, thank you very much for that
    question. The TAP program is very critical. It is very
    important element in that they get their full 365 days to
    transition and educate themselves on it.
        As we all know, the more knowledge you have, and it gives a
    much better sense of direction on where to go for what you
    need, but it also serves you in the right direction for gainful
    future employment. You know, as we all know, employment, you
    know, also steers you in the right direction for stability with
    your family and it also helps drive the economy forward.
        Too often we sit back, and they don't know where to go for
    assistance when they get out of the military. I am not just
    saying that the second you get out of the military, you need
    assistance, but down the road you may need that assistance.
    They need to be forwarded all the tools and resources where
    they go. You know, they will even get a start in their next
    career, you know, as they take off uniform.
        Senator King. Well, my vision is someone meets you at the
    airport when you come home and says, welcome home. Here is what
    the VA can do for you. Here are the programs. Give me a call if
    you need any help. That is where things like the Be The One
    program can make such a difference.
        Thank you again for what you are doing. Be our eyes and
    ears. Let us know what is happening out there so we can protect
    and defend the most sacred obligation this government has,
    which is to its veterans. Thank you, Commander.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Miller-Meeks.

                     HON. MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS,
                     U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM IOWA

        Dr. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Chairman Bost, for
    holding this meeting. Thank you to all of our witnesses. As a
    24-year military veteran married to a 30-year military veteran
    whose father was Air Force, five of her siblings were either in
    the Army, the Air Force, or the Marines, I thank you all for
    your service and the ability for you all to be here, defend our
    democracy, and allow us to actually have this hearing today on
    what we are doing for our veterans and the debt of gratitude
    that we owe them.
        Let me just ask a question. Are you all glad the kiosks are
    coming back? It is one of the times when people in Washington,
    DC don't listen to their veterans, plan a program, and then
    find out that it backfires on them because what they thought
    was a good idea really wasn't a good idea for the population
    that we serve. I too, I have heard a lot about them. So we are
    glad that the VA has reconsidered.
        Ms. Mathis, let me also thank you for mentioning the Fox
    Grant Program. It is a program that the bill that I am
    sponsoring as chair of the Health Subcommittee. One of those
    things that it is very important and your mentioning of the
    peer-to-peer support, and I say this, we have a quad city
    veterans outreach program in Davenport, Iowa. So these are
    veterans serving veterans or, you know, family members of
    veterans serving veterans, who has done a great job in, you
    know, allowing a platform for veterans to come and just talk to
    other veterans. And I thank you for underscoring the importance
    of that.
        And then Mr. LaCourseiere, you mentioned on suicide
    prevention and how challenging it is. And can you ask or tell
    us, you know, what other things do we need to do in Congress to
    help you all. And did you think it was appropriate? We had a
    Health Subcommittee hearing here and found out that the VA did
    not consider residential mental health care or residential
    substance abuse disorder treatment to fall within the 30-day
    window or 40-mile window of the Mission Act, and so these
    patients were refused. Did you think that is something that
    helps us to deter, you know, suicide and also treat PTSD or
    substance use disorder?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Doctor, thank you very much for that
    question. As we did mention earlier, the American Legion, we
    truly do care about every life of a veteran and the care and
    well-being. Suicide is something that we truly take to heart,
    and we are trying to monitor that. But to give a direct answer
    to you, I would like to turn it over to Director Cole.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. I think in our testimony
    and the American Legion's efforts in Be The One, you know,
    there are several changes. I think the Fox Grant Program is a
    great example of a program that gives resources to local and
    state-level organizations that may not be suicide prevention
    per se, but they help attack those upstream problems, that
    financial assistance that I mentioned earlier. I think programs
    like that. But I also think that, or the American Legion
    thinks, that we should look at suicide prevention just
    differently. Right now the Office of Suicide Prevention is
    housed within the VHA and Mental Health, and the VA says it is
    their number one clinical priority when we know that there are
    a lot of things that the Veterans Benefits Administration that
    directly touch on a veteran's spiral to a crisis point. So
    there are several recommendations that we have. We are happy to
    follow up and work with your office to address this problem.
        Dr. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. I know my time has
    expired, but let me just say I thank all of the VSOs and all of
    you here for being our eyes and ears on the ground, and the
    number of lives you have saved from suicide among our veterans
    is uncounted and unknown. So thank you very much. I yield back.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Dexter.

                          HON. MAXINE DEXTER,
                    U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM OREGON

        Dr. Dexter. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
    and to the Ranking Members for convening this important
    hearing. Thank you to our witnesses for being here and for
    continuing to advocate for our veterans. I echo my colleagues
    words of how important it is right now in this moment that we
    hear from you. And just as a physician who served in the VA and
    took care of patients in the VA for years, I am deeply grateful
    for the work that you are continuing to do.
        Last Congress, thanks to your tireless advocacy, The
    Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and
    Benefits Improvement Act was passed. A major step forward on
    many fronts, including in tackling veteran homelessness. Over
    the past 15 years, federal investments have cut veteran
    homelessness in half, but our work clearly isn't done. Last
    year, nearly 34,000 veterans in the U.S., including more than
    1,400 in my home State of Oregon, were still without a home.
    Just last week, I held a roundtable with veterans, VA
    leadership, and advocates in Oregon, and effectively addressing
    houselessness, and mental health are their two top priorities.
    The Dole Act increased per diem rates for transitional housing
    and ensured the VA could provide basic necessities like food,
    transportation, and hygiene products for our unhoused veterans.
    These are essential life-saving provisions, yet Congress has
    failed to fund them.
        Commander LaCourseiere, can you speak to how impactful it
    would be to fully fund the Dole Act programs for veterans
    experiencing homelessness?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Doctor, thank you very much for that
    question and everything. And yes, the American Legion, we are
    ecstatic to see the Dole Act get across the hurdle and
    everything.
        When it comes to veteran homelessness, we care about
    veteran homelessness as much as we do about veteran suicide.
    But veteran and homelessness are two words that should never
    ever be used in the same sentence. [Applause.] You are talking
    about the troops that protected and served for this country.
    And almost every veteran that ever served this country will
    continue serving the country even after they take the uniform
    off. So, we are trying to do everything we can to help reduce--
    well, let me take that word back, to eliminate veteran
    homelessness.
        Dr. Dexter. Thank you, sir.
        Mr. LaCoursiere. And yes, we will do anything we can to
    work with your Committees and work with Congress. And like I
    said in my testimony remarks, we are here to work with
    Congress. Thank you.
        Dr. Dexter. Thank you so much, Commander. And I couldn't
    agree more. And that is exactly the sentiment I heard back in
    Oregon, that we must end veteran homelessness. So, we have a
    bipartisan majority who are in agreement that these programs
    are necessary. We passed the bill. But we still haven't found
    the impetus and the prioritization successfully to actually
    fund it. And that is unacceptable. We must agree that housing
    is a fundamental right. As you said, no veteran who has served
    this country should ever be at threat of being houseless. So, I
    hope that my colleagues can stand with us to make sure that we
    end this and prioritize our veterans over, potentially,
    taxpayer or tax breaks for millionaires. We have the resources,
    we just need the political will.
        Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. We now recognize the Senator from
    Illinois, Senator Duckworth.

                         HON. TAMMY DUCKWORTH,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM ILLINOIS

        Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When my
    colleagues and I passed a PACT Act in 2022, we helped create
    the largest expansion of veterans' benefits in decades. I
    remember when I was State Director of Veterans Affairs and I
    had just been appointed in that position and I had one of the
    pilots that was a Vietnam pilot, Vietnam veteran who was dying
    from Agent Orange related exposure. And I did everything I can
    to try to get him his benefits. This was a man who used to give
    me checkrides and terrified me because the pilots, the Huey
    pilots that got back from Vietnam, they knew what they were
    doing. And they didn't take guff from those young bucks. And he
    used to terrify me, annually, when he would give me my
    checkrides.
        But I remember trying so hard to get him his benefits and
    he ended up dying before he received his benefits. We were able
    to get benefits to his spouse. But it were not for you, if it
    were not for VSOs fighting for Vietnam veterans, we would never
    have passed the presumptive conditions that then set the stage
    for the PACT Act. So I just want to tell you how critically
    that fight was for over 40 years. And the key to that is that
    with the PACT Act we think we are adding benefits now. We think
    we know what those conditions are now. But I am going to tell
    you that some of these conditions are going to take 20, 30, 40
    years to manifest themselves, like they did with Agent Orange
    exposure. It is going to take a while for neurological
    conditions. It is going to take a while for some of this. It
    may be 20, 30 years after exposure before the veterans are
    showing signs of their toxic exposure. So, that is why it is so
    critically important and we get veterans enrolled and get them
    into the system.
        I remember flying into Baghdad and we two pilots would take
    turns holding our breath because that scuzz layer of polluted
    air above Baghdad was so toxic it would burn my lungs, and we
    would actually, our eyes would water coming in for a landing. I
    remember thinking, man, those poor suckers down there, what are
    they living under. But then I lived in Balad, downwind from the
    burn pits.
        And so, I am here because you have always been at the
    forefront, forcing this Nation to live up to our promises to
    veterans. But I will tell you that right now, President Trump
    and Elon Musk firing all of these Veterans Affairs employees is
    not helping the case. And I know the Secretary of Veterans
    Affairs came out and said that no vital employees were fired. I
    personally took care of two Veterans Crisis Hotline employees
    who were fired and worked hard to get them reinstated. They
    were fired on Valentine's Day. These are people who were
    answering the phones.
        And now I just heard another case yesterday of another
    crisis line employee who was fired. This was a supervisor,
    somebody who did a good job and was promoted to help train
    other crisis hotline employees. And because of that, they are
    probationary in that new position. So they were just fired. We
    cannot let that happen.
        Mr. LaCourseiere. Did I say that correctly? Commander. That
    is way better [laughter]. Commander, in your assessment how
    would the firing of so many employees from the VA affect your
    members?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Senator Duckworth, thank you very much for
    that question and the details you just laid out before us. I
    would like to turn this over to our Director, Cole.
        Senator Duckworth. Sure. Of course.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander. And thank you, Senator,
    good to see you again.
        Senator Duckworth. Yes.
        Mr. Lyle. I think there has been a lot happening recently.
    I think every few days we are learning about something new and
    trying to determine how it will potentially impact veterans and
    have any negative impact, so that we can assist this Committee
    and the VA in mitigating those impacts to veterans,
    specifically with the Veterans Crisis Line or other critical
    mission essential to make sure the veterans are getting the
    care they need when they need it.
        We were encouraged about the number of exemptions that the
    VA announced for the VHA, the VBA, and the Board of Veteran
    Appeals. We have also been told by career officials at the VA,
    not politicals, that they were happy with what they called a
    liberal exemption policy. And we will continue to work with you
    and Legionnaires on the ground to identify those potential
    impacts and bring them to you and the VA as soon as possible.
        Senator Duckworth. I would appreciate that. And I would ask
    all of your members, if you know of cases, to bring them to me.
    Because as I said, I have personally been involved in at least
    three, and I have the receipts, because I have the letters that
    they received, and these are people answering the phones when a
    veteran calls. That Crisis Hotline has a 9 second response rate
    and that is critically important.
        And Commander LaCourseiere, what I actually say about
    homeless veterans is anytime a veteran has laid down his head
    on the streets that he has defended, we are all dishonored.
    Thank you for your assignment.
        I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bost. Congressman McGarvey, you are recognized for
    3 minutes.

                         HON. MORGAN MCGARVEY,
                   U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM KENTUCKY

        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you
    all for being here today. We are seeing drastic massive cuts
    right now at the VA. 1400 people fired this week. The VFW has
    spoken out against. Policymakers have spoken out against it.
    Our veterans are speaking out against it. Because of the feared
    impact that it is having on services we must be providing the
    men and women who served us.
        Just last night I had a telephone town hall. A gentleman
    named Alan called in, served in the Army. He was at the VA
    getting health care. And one of the things he told me about, he
    said the people here are scared. Morale is down. They don't
    know if they are going to have their jobs. We made a promise to
    take care of our veterans. We have to fulfill that promise. I
    want to make sure we do. We will not back down on this
    Committee.
        I want to ask you guys a few questions related to the
    workforce of the VA. Commander, do you have numbers on how many
    veterans work in the VA?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Mr. McGarvey, thank you very much for that
    question. I want to turn--I believe it is approximately 400,000
    but I want to turn that over--I want you to have the honest
    answer. I will turn it over to Director Cole.
        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander and thank you, sir. I don't
    have a specific exact number that I can give you right now, but
    I believe it is in the neighborhood of 360,000.
        Mr. McGarvey. Amazing. And do you know what percentage that
    is of VA's workforce?
        Mr. Lyle. VA's total workforce is 469,000 employees. That
    has increased from, I believe, about 49,000 in FY01, so a
    significant increase.
        Mr. McGarvey. So, a huge percentage of veterans working at
    the VA?
        Mr. Lyle. Yep.
        Mr. McGarvey. We have not been able to track down a solid
    number for how many veterans have lost their jobs in these mass
    firings. Do you guys have that number?
        Mr. Lyle. We do not, sir.
        Mr. McGarvey. Okay. How many military spouses have lost
    their jobs in these firings? We haven't been able to track that
    down either.
        Mr. Lyle. No, sir.
        Mr. McGarvey. Right. And part of the reason we don't know
    this is because of how this was done. There was no impact
    analysis done before they laid off all these people. No impact
    of how impact our service members currently, with their
    military spouses, our veterans and the people we are supposed
    to serve.
        We have got 30 seconds left. I told you about what I am
    hearing from our veterans in Louisville, Kentucky. What are you
    all hearing from your members about the impact this is going to
    have?
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, sir. I will just go ahead and follow
    up. I think the lack of clarity, which we did discuss with the
    Secretary in our meeting yesterday, and with VA officials on
    Monday, from all four administrations, that we would, we need
    more clarity on who specifically is being impacted, and we
    encourage them to proactively message with us, the Committees,
    and veterans in the country, about those impacts. But as of
    now, we don't have that information.
        Mr. McGarvey. That was a very nice way to say that we are
    afraid this might be screwing our veterans. Let us know, we are
    going to keep that from happening. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Senator King. Congressman, we had five--seven people fired
    at our Veterans Hospital in Maine yesterday. Five of the seven
    were veterans. So, be clear. When you hear a thousand people
    laid off, three or four hundred of those are veterans.
        Chairman Bost. Representative Morrison.

                          HON. KELLY MORRISON,
                   U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM MINNESOTA

        Dr. Morrison. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I began my remarks
    yesterday by expressing my grave concern about the ongoing
    assault on the civil service of VA employees. Shortly after
    yesterday's hearing I learned that these mass firings hit
    Minneapolis VA, which serves over 100,000 veterans in the Twin
    Cities and surrounding areas. We are talking about public
    servants with records of strong job performance, many of whom
    are vets themselves, who now find themselves out of a job, all
    without notice or cause. Many of the VA employees who were just
    laid off in Minneapolis are veterans themselves, men and women
    who made the honorable decision to serve their fellow vets even
    after they completed their own military service. I find it hard
    to believe that these mass firings won't affect the care and
    services that our veterans have earned.
        Commander, I am grateful to you and your fellow
    Legionnaires for being here today. I was honored to meet with a
    strong delegation from Minnesota yesterday. I am grateful to
    them for traveling on this way to the Halls of Congress. I want
    to thank you for sharing your stories and your advocacy on
    behalf of your fellow veterans. Last year, Hennepin County,
    which is Minnesota's largest county by population, achieved
    functional zero status for veterans' homelessness. I am
    incredibly proud of my home community for making such
    significant strides. [Applause.] Thank you. That does deserve a
    round of applause. I am really proud of my home community for
    making such significant strides and caring for our veterans.
    And it gives me hope that Minnesota can be a model for the
    whole country in the fight to end veteran homelessness.
        Commander, I am wondering how federal investments in
    housing and other wraparound services will help to fight the
    veteran homelessness crisis?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Dr. Morrison, thank you very much for that
    question. Increasing the number of HUD-VASH vouchers that are
    made available and working with the SSVF, that alone can impact
    and reduce our veteran homelessness, and also give them the
    peace of mind that the government is actually working with
    them. What I found, I myself, I am going to share a personal,
    very quick, and I will make it quick. Outside of the American
    Legion, I am currently on years leave of absence, but when I
    return back to Connecticut after my year, I go back to working
    for the Soldiers', Sailors', and Marines' Fund, which is a fund
    that the American Legion handles for the State of Connecticut,
    which is temporary financial assistance.
        And what we find out, traditionally, toward the latter part
    of the year in the fall time, which is a critical time of the
    year, now we are starting to fall short on the availability of
    the HUD-VASH vouchers and everything.
        So, in my opinion, to answer your questions directly, if
    there is a way we can increase, maybe based on veteran
    population, you know, on the states and everything.
        Dr. Morrison. Thank you, that is helpful. Just really
    quickly, I was excited to see in your testimony you made
    reference to the outstanding work happening at VA Vets Centers.
    As you know, they provide a variety of counseling and
    transitional services, but in a more relaxed, less clinical
    environment. There is a Vet Center in my district in Anoka,
    Minnesota and I hope that we can expand these services across
    our entire state. Can you share, just briefly, your perspective
    about why Vet Centers' community-based approach to support
    services is so successful?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Again, Dr. Morrison, thank you very much
    for that question. Right away, I am going to turn that over to
    our Chairman of Veterans Department of Education, Matt Jabaut.
        Mr. Jabaut. Sorry, could you repeat the question?
        Dr. Morrison. Of course. Just how the importance of Vet
    Centers and why their community-based approach to support
    services is so successful?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. I am sorry about that, Dr. Morrison, my
    mistake. I was looking at the wrong chairman. I am going to
    turn that over to our Chairman, Jay Bowen.
        Mr. Bowen. Thank you, Commander. And thank you, ma'am, for
    the question. We do appreciate it. As you stated, the Vet
    Centers are critical to veterans' care because they do operate
    in a more relaxed environment. And once you put the veteran in
    a relaxed environment, they are more apt and more likely to
    then open up and talk about the issues that they have. And once
    they talk about the issues and it gets out on the table, then
    we can identify a fix.
        Dr. Morrison. Thank you so much. Before I finish, I just
    want to say, as the wife of an Army combat veteran and a proud
    American, I want to thank every one of you in this room for
    your service.
        [Applause.]
        Chairman Bost. So, I will apologize that I had to leave at
    the beginning. I normally ask questions first. But we didn't
    save the best for last, but I am going to be the one to ask the
    last questions, if that is all right.
        [Laughter.]
        Commander, look, you know, I am very grateful for the
    American Legion's past support of my bill, H.R. 1041. Now, that
    is the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. Is the
    legislation something that the American Legion will continue to
    support?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Bost, thank you very much for
    that question. The American Legion, we have and we always will
    stand by the Constitution of the United States of America.
        [Applause.]
        Chairman Bost. Thank you for that. So, one other bill I
    have got out there is H.R. 740, the Veterans' ACCESS Act of
    2025, which expands access to community care. Can you explain
    why the veterans need access to community care?
        Mr. LaCoursiere. Chairman Bost, I am going to turn that
    question over to Director Cole.
        Mr. Lyle. Thank you, Commander and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I think over the years since the Phoenix wait list scandal in
    2014, and then the passage of the Veterans Choice Act, and the
    passage of the MISSION Act, community care has expanded because
    more veterans have become eligible under the regulatory
    guidance to be able to get an appointment within a certain time
    or distance. In a lot of areas, the VA is unable to provide
    that care in-house. We have seen credible evidence of VA
    administrators at the VISN and the VAMC level basically
    disregard some of those access standards, and canceling
    appointments or canceling existing referrals, shortening the
    timeline of authorization. So the ACCESS Act, the codification
    of access standards, would take the VA's ability to do that
    out, if the veteran and their provider decide it is in their
    best medical interest to go seek care in the community. So
    that, number one. But number two, the very important provision
    is oftentimes we hear from veterans across the country that,
    you know, they are happy with the care that they get at VA,
    they are happy with the quality, they are happy with the care
    they get at their community provider. They are frustrated with
    the referral process, and the scheduling process, and the
    hurdles they have to overcome, and the communication between
    those community providers. So, the second important provision
    in that bill would seek to streamline the scheduling process,
    which is why we reviewed it and supported it.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Thank you. Real quickly,
    Commander, before my time runs out here and we do go to our
    closing, I just want to let you know that I know you brought up
    the TAP programs. Remember, I am a veteran that left the Marine
    Corps in 1983. Back then, we did get a TAP. It was a tap from
    the colonel saying, hey, nice to see you, thank you for your
    service [laughter]. But we are on our Committee wanting to work
    very closely with HASC, with the--because it is under DoD's
    control, the scheduling, but we need to get that coordinated.
    And the sad thing is, is that like a VA, if you have seen one
    TAP program, you have seen one TAP program. They need to be
    uniform. We need to be able to get the information to our
    veterans so as they separate that they know what is available
    to them for every issue, but mostly so that they know what
    mental health issues are available to them so that we don't
    lose them in being part of that. Whether it is 17 or 21 or
    whatever that number is, one is too many with veteran suicide.
    So we make that commitment. We will be working on that with
    you.
        [Applause.]
        So with that, I now want to recognize the Ranking Member,
    Mr. Takano, for his closing statement.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Regarding the ACCESS
    Act, I just want to say that it does nothing to enhance the
    shortage and understaffing at the community care coordination
    offices among the many, many VMACs across the country. And part
    of the bottleneck with the referral process is the
    understaffing of those offices. And I don't know that they were
    exempt from the firing or the freeze that your organization
    inquired about with senior career officials. What I am troubled
    by is the acceptance from these career officials, these career
    officials, about the whole policy. Was the question asked, was
    there an analysis performed not only about the impact about the
    necessity for these firings? What was the purpose of these
    firings? Waste, fraud, and abuse is bandied about as a
    justification, but where is the justification prior to these
    firings? It seems to me they occurred willy-nilly and
    indiscriminately. And the evidence is in the many, many people,
    many veterans that have answered our survey about, and VA
    employees generally who have replied to our survey. And I would
    urge that a similar survey be done by your own organization
    about the veterans who have been fired. I would assert that
    there is no credible justification. Waste, fraud, and abuse is
    just an excuse that has been put out there. In fact, the very
    people who are responsible for waste, fraud, and abuse
    investigations were the first people fired by this
    administration. They fired the Inspector General who has held
    tough investigations against both Republican and Democratic
    inspector generals. I have just reviewed some reports from the
    inspector general on President Biden that were not--President
    Biden's VA Secretary that were not very flattering. So, it is
    not credible to me that waste, fraud, and abuse motivated these
    mass firings at VA.
        Now, Mr. Chairman, before we just--before I end, I wanted
    to say I would like to share something. Yesterday and today you
    have accused my Democratic colleagues and me of fear mongering
    and you say that we are not aware--that you are not aware of
    any direct effects on patient care due to VA's reckless firing
    of 2400 employees and counting. Well, you have repeatedly
    invited folks to share examples with you, so I would like to
    share one with you now.
        On Monday, two clinicians who performed mental health
    intake at the Cleveland VA Medical Center were dismissed. This
    is already wreaking havoc on patient care and patient safety at
    that facility. Additionally, prosthetics and supply chain staff
    have been fired. This directly affects patient care because
    these employees play a critical role in procuring the medical
    devices veterans need and equipping surgical suites with
    necessary supplies. I met with this particular employee, fired
    employee yesterday. They were in attendance at the hearing. And
    they also indicated that it could mean that veterans who need
    prosthetics could be--the supply for them could be delayed.
        Now, this is a very urgent matter and I don't think we can
    sit around and pretend to believe senior officials who are
    under duress by the senior leadership who tell you, oh, they
    are comfortable with the exemptions and that should be accepted
    at face value. There is prima facie evidence I am presenting to
    you now that you should face that with skepticism.
        I will not stop talking about these mass firings until I
    get answers. Until I get answers. And so far, there are no
    answers. And everything that Senator Tillis brought up, the
    information is not forthcoming. It is not forthcoming.
        Mr. Chairman, will you commit to us that we get from VA the
    details of these firings to ensure, as you have repeatedly
    claimed, that these firings will not affect patient care?
    Because my staff and I are already hearing about such
    instances. And I hope that we will have a hearing about these
    firings, specifically.
        Chairman Bost. We will take it under advisement. Let me----
        Mr. Takano. I don't hear a commitment.
        Chairman Bost. I will take it under advisement. I have
    actually been meeting with the Secretary. Know what the
    conversations have been. Also know that each person has been
    let go, in their letter, it says that they can appeal to their
    supervisor immediately to find out if that there are--and then
    I would ask those who have come before you. I mean, you have
    all stuck on your talking points very, very, very well, and I
    appreciate that. But that being said, to say there is not
    waste, fraud, and abuse in the Agency----
        Senator King. I don't do talking points Mr. Chairman. That
    is an insult. Finish saying what I said.
        Chairman Bost. Well, I apologize if you feel it is an
    insult, Senator, because I am going to tell you something. I
    have listened to it over and over again. We are 20 days into--
    we are one month into this administration that sent a clear
    message to try to cure the problems that exist in government
    today. Even the former administration admitted that they over-
    hired after COVID. Now, we need to make sure that we are
    streamlining, doing the job that is necessary. And we do have
    the commitment from the Secretary that no one's services are
    going to be lost. You as VSOs, please come forward to me and
    tell me if those are done. You obviously mentioned that you met
    with the Secretary yesterday. As this goes on, we are one month
    into this. I appreciate that you have an opportunity to argue
    the political point. I am telling you that I will stand for
    veterans like I always have. I will continue to stand for
    veterans. I have always stood for veterans.
        Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, I do not hear you. I do not hear
    you saying you will commit to----
        Chairman Bost. And I have just told you we will take it
    under advisement, Mr. Ranking Member.
        Mr. Takano. You will take it under advisement. Will we not
    hold a hearing on 14,000, 2400 people who were fired?
        Chairman Bost. We are one month into this and I don't know
    which things to admit to because as of yet, we are still
    studying it ourselves. And so, with that, I will tell you that
    I will take it under advisement and my position as Chair, I
    will do that. You don't need to tell me how to take my position
    as Chair. I didn't do that when you were Chair. And I don't
    appreciate it in front of this group, you doing it now.
        So, let me explain this to you. It is amazing to me that
    during this time you are bringing up this, but when we had
    sexual situations occurring in our VA where they were running a
    sex room, you said nothing about firing those. When we had
    superintendent----
        Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bost.--When we had----
        Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bost. No. Now, I am going now, thank you.
        Mr. Takano. Mr. Chairman, you held a hearing. I advised you
    to allow the internal investigations to proceed with the
    internal, with the internal----
        Chairman Bost. We----
        Mr. Takano [continuing]. With the Inspector General.
        Chairman Bost. We have one other that we did a hearing on.
        Mr. Takano. I did not subpoena----
        Chairman Bost. And you did not bring up.
        Mr. Takano. I did not subpoena one single official when I
    was Chairman, when, when President Trump was a President, you
    issued several subpoenas.
        Chairman Bost. You are doggone right I did, because the
    people need to know.
        Mr. Takano. Well, I think the people need to understand why
    2400----
        Chairman Bost. And its administration----
        Mr. Takano [continuing]. Individuals who were fired, 24,000
    people were fired.
        Chairman Bost.--And this administration has been answering
    those questions----
        Mr. Takano. They have----
        Chairman Bost.--Not only----
        Mr. Takano. They have not provided a single bit of
    information about why----
        Chairman Bost. There has been.
        Mr. Takano [continuing]. They were fired. Why the
    justification----
        Chairman Bost. And when you put up the, when you put up the
    letter yesterday, you put half the letter up. You did not put
    the response, where the opportunity for the employee to do the
    appeals process. So I understand that you are concerned. I am
    glad that you have got the platform. You are doing a great job
    of grabbing hold of that platform. My job is to make sure our
    veterans are taken care of, as it is yours. And we are going to
    do that.
        Mr. Takano. Well, please hold a hearing. That is all I am
    asking you to do.
        Chairman Bost. I understand that. With that, welcome to the
    VA Committee that is so bipartisan [laughter]. Look, I want to
    thank the American Legion and all the witnesses for being here
    today. We share your values. And I want to thank the audience
    members for coming in from every corner of this United States
    to be here today. Let me tell you for purposes when this panel
    is excused, if you would, because we know this room so well,
    all right. If you could go out that door while we are bringing
    the new panel in because it just kind of helps the flow.
        Commander, I do want to say thank you. I do want to say to
    thank you to each one of you and all my other, all thank you
    legionnaires, and I thank you that I am part of your
    organization. It has been a pleasure to serve you and will be
    continued to serve you, and we will work through any of the
    issues as they come forward. Thank you so much. You are
    excused.
        [Applause.]
        [Recess.]
        Chairman Bost. Take your seats. We would like to welcome
    the second panel and thank you for being here. We have a lot of
    important organizations to hear from on this panel, so let us
    get right to it. Today we are joined by Major Gary Ginsburg of
    the Jewish War Veterans, Lindsay Church of the Minority
    Veterans of America, Mr. Michael McLaughlin of the National
    Association of County Veterans Service Officers, Commander Rene
    Campos of the Military Officers Association of America, Mr.
    Timothy Sheppard of the National Association of the State
    Directors of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Raymond Toenniessen of
    D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families,
    Syracuse University, and Lieutenant General Walter Piatt of
    Wounded Warrior Project. Again, welcome to all of you and also
    to the members of the audience.
        So let us get started. Sergeant Major Ginsburg, you are now
    recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

                                PANEL II

                                  ----------

                STATEMENT OF GARY GINSBURG, (USA-RET.),
           NATIONAL COMMANDER, JEWISH WAR VETERANS OF THE USA

        Mr. Ginsburg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Moran,
    Chairman Bost, Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, Members
    of the House and Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, and my
    fellow veterans, ladies and gentlemen, I am Gary Ginsberg,
    United States Army Reserve Command Sergeant Major. In the 93rd
    National Commander of the Jewish War Veterans of the United
    States, our mission is clear, to support America's 17 million
    veterans and family members, regardless of race, religion, or
    gender. We have a Jewish War Veterans organization because
    quite frankly, we might be the only veterans' organization
    whose loyalty to this country is sometimes questioned. We
    remain opposed to hatred, bigotry, and antisemitism, wherever
    the source, whomever the target.
        Our leadership was pleased to meet with the Chairman last
    year and some issues are still being addressed. We urge the
    Committee to help slay the dragon of hatred, bigotry, and
    antisemitism with executive branch oversight, with a little bit
    of education, training and prevention.
        Recently, I have become aware of another issue affecting
    veterans. The JWV is concerned about food insecurity amongst
    American veterans. Research shows that about 8 percent of our
    veterans right now, over 1 million persons, are food insecure.
    We urge Congress to look at this and exercise appropriate
    oversight. We also recognize that right now veterans are facing
    challenges with employment this year. Veterans are an asset to
    our Nation and serve in many capacities, often inspiring the
    next generation of young men and women to step forward and wear
    the cloth of our Nation.
        We are concerned about some of the cutbacks in staffing,
    although we know it is still early in the administration. We
    think that some of this is very hasty. We think that cutbacks
    should be more precise and quite frankly, maybe the train needs
    to slow down just a little bit. We encourage, again,
    congressional oversight with respect to this situation because
    veterans are about 30 percent of the VA and some of the
    veterans are being affected with the staffing cutbacks. The
    JWV, the Jewish War Veterans, we have long supported the Major
    Richard Star Act and we urge swift passage because now is the
    time. Now is the time to address the unfair pay offset facing
    almost 45,000 combat-injured veterans to receive their
    appropriate DoD retirement pay and VA disability compensation.
        We also are concerned about veteran suicide in the current
    trends. We know about 20 or 22 veterans a day commit suicide,
    but in fact veterans are roughly 6 percent of our Nation. They
    comprise approximately 15 percent of the suicide cases in
    recent years.
        Recently we have learned about a new bill introduced into
    the current session of the House, H.R. 439. While we are still
    reviewing the details, it is entitled the Veterans Foreign
    Medical Coverage Equality and Modernization Act of 2025. The
    JWV, the Jewish War Veterans, urges the Committee to review
    this legislation quickly and take appropriate action concerning
    our service-connected disability veterans who reside overseas.
    We probably have American citizens who reside in virtually 24
    time zones around the world, and I know we have many veterans
    that reside overseas. We have some of our own members, for
    example, that reside in Israel, and we want to see them receive
    the appropriate support as they served honorably in defense of
    this Nation.
        The JWB is also concerned about women veterans and some of
    the unique situations there. They are the fastest growing group
    of veterans in the VA system. We support addressing some of the
    specialized health care with respect to our women veterans,
    whether it has increasing cancer screenings, improving mental
    health, accessing infertility assistance, and of course,
    reducing intimate partner violence. We urge the VA to fully
    implement all portions of the Deborah Sampson Act.
        As I get to my concluding remarks, I am reminded, in 1945,
    following the battle of Iwo Jima, a Navy chaplain, Roland
    Gittelsohn, offered a statement during the memorial service for
    the Marines that fell at Iwo Jima. That bipartisan spirit is
    necessary today.
        I also urge the Committee going forward, every decision you
    make, please consider it as if it was your own son or daughter,
    family member, or best friend. At this time, I thank you for
    the opportunity to testify before the Joint Committee of the
    House and the Senate. I thank you very much. And that concludes
    my comments. I look forward to any questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Ginsburg appears on page 82
    of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Sergeant Major. I would now like
    to recognize Lindsay Church for her 5 minutes for opening
    statement.
        [Microphone off.]
        Ms. Church [turns microphone on]. Sorry.
        Chairman Bost. Microphone. There you go.

    STATEMENT OF LINDSAY CHURCH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER,
                      MINORITY VETERANS OF AMERICA

        Ms. Church. I am still learning. Chairman Moran and Bost,
    Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, and Members of the
    Committees. I sit before you today as the voice of millions.
    Millions of veterans who have served this country with honor,
    only to be met with indifference, discrimination, and systemic
    barriers when they hung up their uniforms. Veterans who,
    despite their sacrifice, find themselves battling for the most
    basic of rights, health care that meets their needs, a roof
    over their heads, and the dignity to live free from political
    attacks on their very existence. I also sit before you as a
    third generation Navy veteran and a proud transgender American.
    My family has dedicated their lives to service in and out of
    uniform. I brought them with me today in the form of dog tags.
    We have fought across generations for an America that is barely
    recognizable. The state of veterans' services in this country
    is imperiled. We are watching the gutting of the Department of
    Veterans Affairs, an institution that is supposed to be the
    backbone of veteran care. Thousands of VA employees, many of
    them veterans themselves, have been indiscriminately fired
    overnight, jeopardizing the quality and accessibility of care
    for millions. Veterans are being turned into collateral damage
    in a war of political posturing. This is not governance. This
    is negligence at best, willful cruelty at worst. Our community
    is under attack. Minority veterans, those who are Black,
    indigenous, veterans of color, women, LGBTQIA, religious
    minorities, immigrants, disabled, are being told through policy
    and practice that our service, our sacrifices, and our lives do
    not matter.
        Executive orders and legislation are being wielded as
    weapons to strip away our rights. Critical health care is being
    gutted. Gender affirming care, reproductive health services,
    and mental health support are being dismantled under the guise
    of government efficiency. And let us not pretend this is about
    efficiency. This is about erasure. We refuse to be erased.
        [Applause.]
        Minority veterans have fought and sacrificed for this
    country, often serving in times when we were denied full rights
    and recognition. It is our Nation's duty to uphold their rights
    and ensure we have access to health care, benefits, housing,
    employment opportunities, and protections against
    discrimination. Gutting the very institutions designed to
    support veterans will only widen existing disparities and push
    more people into crisis.
        So, today I asked the Committee, will you continue to allow
    veterans to be used as pawns in a game we never signed up to
    play? Or will you fight for us the way we fought for this
    country? We are not here to beg. We are here because the stakes
    are life and death. We are calling on Congress to act boldly
    and decisively. Reinstate VA staff and protect its workforce.
    Stop the rollback of critical health care services. Ensure that
    every veteran, regardless of their identity, has a safe place
    to call home. Fund programs that actually prevent suicide
    rather than just offering lip service while cutting the very
    services that save our lives.
        All veterans swore an oath to the Constitution of this
    great Nation. And in return, this Nation made a promise to its
    veterans. That promise doesn't come with an asterisk. It does
    not come with conditions, and it does not disappear when it
    becomes inconvenient. We are here to make sure you keep it.
    Thank you.
        [Applause.]

        [The prepared statement of Ms. Church appears on page 98 of
    the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Thank you. We would now like to
    recognize Mr. McLaughlin for 5 minutes for your opening
    statement.

    STATEMENT OF MICHAEL MCLAUGHLIN, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL
            ASSOCIATION OF COUNTY VETERANS SERVICE OFFICERS

        Mr. McLaughlin. Thank you. Chairman Bost, Moran, Ranking
    Members Takano and Blumenthal, and distinguished Members of the
    Committee. On behalf of the National Association of County
    Veterans Service Officers, or NACVSO, I extend our deepest
    gratitude for the opportunity to address this session. As you
    are aware, NACVSO is a unique organization in that all of our
    leadership work as accredited VA representatives, advocating
    for veterans and their dependents in their local communities.
    We comprise the VA's biggest local partner resource as
    Governmental Veteran Service Officers, or GVSOs, that helps
    ensure as a Nation we continue to care for those who have
    served. We understand the veterans experience as well as how to
    better support the VA. Furthermore, our members are often the
    first point of contact for your very own congressional offices
    as you assist your veteran constituents. It is through this
    lens that I offer this testimony in hopes that together we may
    better support our Nation's veterans.
        NACVSO wishes to express our gratitude for the passage of
    The Senator Elizabeth Dole 21st Century Veterans Healthcare and
    Benefits Improvement Act. This legislation includes several
    provisions aimed at improving services for veterans and their
    families. Notably, Section 302, the Commitment to Veteran
    Support and Outreach Act, or CVSO Act marks a historic first
    step in providing funding for local GVSOs. This acknowledges
    what NACVSO has long known, that delivering veteran services is
    most effective when it collaborates with experts at the local
    community level.
        While we appreciate this progress, funding alone isn't
    enough. Stronger partnerships between the VA and local
    advocates remains essential. One immediate step would be to
    ensure that the Veterans Benefits Improvement Act of 2024,
    Section 4, is completed expeditiously. This report can serve as
    a roadmap for transforming veteran services into a combined
    arms effort by mobilizing all levels of government to meet the
    needs of veterans efficiently and effectively.
        As VA accredited representatives, our members work
    tirelessly to help veterans submit the best claims possible.
    However, there have been growing concerns about the over
    development of disability claims, an issue that delays
    decisions and wastes taxpayer dollars through the unnecessary
    scheduling of disability exams. We appreciate that VA
    leadership has engaged with stakeholders on this. We recognize
    that these challenges stem from many complex issues and is not
    intentionally done by VA. We encourage this body to amend how
    VA is required to implement Toxic Exposure Risk Activities or
    TERA exams. For example, by ensuring that when a veteran has a
    confirmed TERA, it does not automatically trigger an
    unnecessary TERA examination while other forms of service-
    connection are obvious. VA can reduce expenses while also
    streamlining a favorable outcome for the veteran.
        Similarly, we urge greater adherence to the Fully Developed
    Claim or FDC process which is designed to improve efficiency
    and reduce the number of exams. NACVSO stands ready to work
    with VA and this body to improve TERA and restore the FDC
    process to ensure that claims and decisions are timely,
    accurate, and fiscally responsible.
        While it is not immediately an issue before this body,
    NACVSO would like to publicly oppose any future policy or
    legislation that would seek to means test a VA disability. A
    veteran service-connected is not tied exclusively to economic
    impediments, but also considers social and familial
    impairments. I am a veteran and the proud son of a Vietnam
    veteran who was severely wounded during the Tet Offensive.
    Those wounds led to the amputation of his leg. With prosthetics
    provided by the VA, my father was able to find and secure
    employment, all while waging daily battles to prepare himself
    physically and mentally for work each day. An economic means
    test would have penalized him for his decision to seek
    employment. My father and many other veterans paid the price
    for their country every day, and this price continues. What
    cost can we assign to my father's inability to teach his
    daughter how to swim or ride a bike? Can we name the price for
    his 6-year-old son knowing what phantom pains are for a leg
    that no longer exists?
        In addition to incentivizing veterans to seek vocational
    rehabilitation, any policy intending to means test these
    disabilities disregards the true price that veterans and their
    families have paid, a price they will pay for the rest of their
    lives. Such means testing would break our country's sacred
    promise and shatter President Lincoln's commitment to care for
    him who shall have borne the battle, his widow, or his orphan,
    which is why NACVSO stands firmly against any such future
    proposals.
        Lastly, NACVSO asks this body to continue working alongside
    VA to prevent and hold accountable claims consultants who
    continue for-profit representation of initial VA claims. We
    believe that no person who has taken the oath of service to
    this country should ever have to leverage their earned benefits
    to simply gain access to those benefits. As such, we humbly
    implore this body to look at every means possible to provide
    agency reform and increased support for pro bono access to
    these services.
        Chairman, Ranking Members, and Members of the Committees on
    behalf of NACVSO, thank you for your attention to these
    matters. I look forward to our continued work together to
    better serve our Nation's veterans and their families.
        [Applause.]

        [The prepared statement of Mr. McLaughlin appears on page
    119 of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Mr. McLaughlin. Now, I would like
    to recognize Commander Campos for 5 minutes for her opening
    statement.

     STATEMENT OF CDR RENE A. CAMPOS, (USN-RET.), SENIOR DIRECTOR,
     GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, MILITARY OFFICERS ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA

        Ms. Campos. Chairman Bost, House and Senate Veterans'
    Affairs Committees, I invite MOAA members here and our staff
    today to stand. They represent over 350,000 members whose
    voices strengthen our advocacy. We thank you for the
    opportunity to share our veteran priorities.
        [Applause.]
        Let me begin by commending your work last year in the Dole
    Act. It is a testament to the power of collaboration and
    bipartisan support in achieving meaningful reforms. Yet much
    remains to strengthen support to veterans. Here is a short list
    of MOAA's priorities. For veterans' health care it is
    supporting veteran caregivers by passing the Veteran Caregiver
    Reeducation, Reemployment, and Retirement Act. Just as veterans
    answered the call to serve their Nation, their caregivers also
    answered the call to step up and serve them. These caregivers
    sacrificed their own futures, giving up financial security,
    career advancement, and personal well-being to care for our
    Nation's heroes. Yet when caregiving ends, whether it is due to
    ineligibility to veterans' services or the passing of their
    loved one, many are left struggling to rebuild their lives. For
    example, one son cared for his Vietnam father for a decade.
    When the role ended, he faced difficulty re-entering the
    workforce due to outdated skills and employment gaps. A
    returnship program, as proposed in this bill, would provide
    crucial reemployment opportunities. This act fulfills our
    Nation's promise to those who sacrifice so much. It empowers
    caregivers financially while potentially reducing long-term
    reliance on federal assistance. We urge Congress to pass this
    legislation.
        We also seek action to strengthen support for women and
    other underserved veterans by eliminating barriers to health
    care. These veterans face limited provider availability, lack
    awareness of benefits, they experience longer wait times and
    disparities in health care outcomes, and they face challenges
    due to income, education, and other systemic barriers that
    create inequities in accessing vital services. MOAA urges
    Congress to pass the Improving Menopause Care for Veterans Act
    to advance research and to enhance care for women veterans and
    to reintroduce the SAVES Act to expand care and benefits for
    survivors of MST.
        For veterans benefits, we ask your support in ending the
    wait for the toxic-exposed veterans by codifying framework for
    the presumptive process. The PACT Act was certainly historic,
    but veterans still wait decades for recognition of toxic
    exposures. Since World War I, only 30 exposures have been
    recognized, taking an average of 34 years to establish
    presumption. MOAA and DAV's ``Ending the Wait'' report
    highlights the urgent need to improve the presumptive process.
    We urge Congress to codify a framework that acknowledges
    exposure and its risk, concedes exposure when justified, and
    commits to ongoing research linking exposures to healthcare
    outcomes. This framework is an essential first step to
    delivering the healthcare and benefits earned.
        Additionally, we encourage Congress to focus on improving
    the transition services for service members by including VSOs
    in the TAP process. We all know financial stability is crucial
    to a smooth transition to civilian life. The Benefits Delivery
    at Discharge program helps expedite claims process, but
    excluding VSOs from TAPs increases unnecessary risk as both a
    VSO and an MSO, MOAA leverages its expertise to bridge the gap
    between the military and civilian communities. Including VSOs
    in TAP would provide transitioning service members with the
    essential guidance they need. We ask Congress to reintroduce
    and pass the TAP Promotion Act.
        Finally, we urge Congress to immediately pass this year's
    VA funding and secure FY 2026 appropriations by October 1st.
    Predictable sufficient funding is vital to sustaining VA's
    health and benefit systems, meeting the growing needs of
    veterans and their families, and fulfilling congressional
    mandates without disruption.
        MOAA thanks you for your leadership and commitment to those
    who have served, and we stand ready to work with Congress to
    hold our Nation's promises and ensure every veteran receives
    the care and benefits they earned. Thank you and I welcome your
    questions.
        [Applause.]

        [The prepared statement of Ms. Campos appears on page 126
    of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. Thank you, Commander. I now recognize Mr.
    Sheppard for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

    STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY SHEPPARD, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION
                 OF STATE DIRECTORS OF VETERANS AFFAIRS

        Mr. Sheppard. Thank you, Chairman Bost. I am Tim Sheppard,
    President of the National Association of State Directors of
    Veterans Affairs, or NASDVA for short. Please accept our
    submitted written testimony for the record.
        NASDVA was founded in 1946 following World War II to unite
    VA leaders from all 50 states, five U.S. territories, and the
    District of Columbia. NASDVA is tasked and held accountable by
    our respective Governors, state boards, or commissions to
    address the needs of our veterans. Although each state or
    territory is unique in its organizational structure, programs,
    and resources, we are frontline advocates for our Nation's 18
    million veterans, with the common goal of conducting outreach
    and serving them.
        Importantly, we partner with the federal VA, VSOs, and
    community partners, though the relationship between federal VA
    and NASDAQ is formalized by a Standing Memorandum of
    Understanding which we will have signed later this summer with
    Secretary Collins.
        The two most important VA grant programs with VA are the
    State Veterans Home Construction Grant Program and the Veterans
    Cemetery Grants Program. The State Veterans Homes provide more
    than 50 percent of the total VA long-term care in 171
    operational homes with over 30,000 beds of care. There are 81
    Priority Group 1 projects which requires roughly $1.3 billion
    for the federal 65 percent match. Both our association and the
    National Association of State Veterans Homes recommends
    increased funding from the proposed budget of only $147 million
    to at least $650 million to address the increasing need for
    nursing care and fund at least a half of the pending grant
    request.
        Additionally, the operational costs warrant an increase in
    per diem rates to enhance the quality of care in the face of
    chronic shortages of health care professionals, rising cost of
    medications, and the increase in the complexity of care for the
    aging veterans' population.
        For Memorial Affairs, the Veterans Cemetery Grants Program
    provided roughly 43,000 internments in 2024, which is roughly
    24 percent of the total number of burials by NCA and grant
    cemeteries. There are 122 state, tribal, and three territory
    grant funded cemeteries that support VA's goal that 95 percent
    of veterans have a burial option within a 75-mile radius of
    their home county.
        The FY 2025 budget proposal is only $60 million. Priority
    Group 1 projects are for expansion and improvement of existing
    cemeteries and totals more than $100 million. The funding is
    insufficient to award grants for new state or tribal
    cemeteries. The program needs an increase to at least $120
    million to address Priority Group 2 establishments.
        For the 9 million veterans receiving VA health care. We
    recommend continued emphasis by VA to ensure veterans are
    provided timely access. We recommend the external provider
    scheduling program be expanded nationally to include direct
    care availability which gives the veterans a comparison between
    VA and community providers. The focus should be on the
    veteran's medical needs, whether in-house, VA, or by community
    care, which in essence is VA care. The scheduling of
    appointments needs improvement and reimbursements to providers
    should be prompt. The coordination of available care is the
    key.
        We support Congress's oversight to hold VA accountable for
    the rollout of the Electronic Health Record Modernization. It
    is a complex software, but it is taking too long to deploy. VA
    needs to address both current system challenges highlighted by
    users and future IT issues. VA should continue to conduct
    operational assessments and have a strategic roadmap for
    completion.
        In conclusion, I want to re-emphasize again that we are
    government-to-government partners with the federal VA and we
    are second only to them in the direct delivery of services.
    Distinguished Committee Members, we sincerely respect and
    appreciate your work to improve the well-being of our Nation's
    veterans. It is our honor for us to be part of the mission.
    Thank you and Hooah.
        Voices. Hooah.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Sheppard appears on page 148
    of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. You Army guys. Marines we just do it Oorah,
    different. Mr. Toenniessen, you are recognized for 5 minutes
    for your opening statement.

    STATEMENT OF RAYMOND TOENNIESSEN, DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND
       VICE PRESIDENT FOR STRATEGIC INITIATIVES AND INNOVATION,
       D'ANIELLO INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY FAMILIES AT
                          SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY

        Mr. Toenniessen. Thank you. Chairman Moran and Bost,
    Ranking Members Blumenthal and Takano, and Members of the
    Committees, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to
    present the 2025 policy priorities of the D'Aniello Institute
    for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University.
        Our Nation's all-volunteer force relies on our shared
    commitment to ensure that veterans and their families not only
    survive but truly thrive after service. To achieve this, we
    must address the complex challenges they face with proactive
    interventions, strong public-private partnerships and rigorous
    evaluation. Most critical, the VA's recent National Veterans
    Suicide Prevention Annual Report confirms that the rate of
    death by suicide remains unacceptably high. We know that
    health, economic, and housing challenges rarely occur in
    isolation. Instead, each additional stressor compounds the risk
    of suicidal ideation.
        Over the past decade, initiatives like our America Serves
    program have been vital. Data shows that nearly 70 percent of
    veterans supported through America Serves are also enrolled in
    VA healthcare, a clear sign that when communities and the VA
    work in tandem, they can address stressors more effectively and
    reach veterans who might otherwise be overlooked.
        Equally important is the role of programs like the Staff
    Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant. As this
    program comes up for reauthorization, we value your commitment
    to enhancing it with improvements drawn from both grantee and
    advocate feedback. Such enhancements will empower communities
    to act decisively before it is too late.
        Additionally, these comprehensive mental health
    interventions demand stronger accountability, and we urge
    Congress to establish enhanced standards for data collection
    and evaluation across the VA and its community partnerships. By
    setting clear, outcome driven benchmarks, we can ensure that
    every dollar is spent where it will have the greatest impact.
        Transitioning from military service presents its own unique
    set of challenges. Data shows us that although most veterans
    pursue employment after service, including those furthering
    their education, 62 percent remain underemployed six and a half
    years after leaving the military. Meanwhile, the Federal
    Government spends over $13 billion annually on transition
    programs, primarily focused on education, spread across 46
    federal programs managed by 11 different agencies. A recent
    RAND report found that few of these programs have undergone
    rigorous independent evaluation, with 27 of the programs
    releasing no performance data at all.
        In contrast, nonprofit initiatives can deliver and show
    significant results. Our Onward to Opportunity program provides
    skills training and credentialing to over 10,000 transitioning
    service members, veterans and military spouses each year. As
    the only program evaluated by a third party, O2O stands as
    evidence that community led efforts can often operate more
    efficiently than their government counterparts. We encourage
    Congress to allocate additional resources to nonprofits that
    demonstrate measurable, positive outcomes and to require
    evaluation of federal programs.
        Data from the Veterans Metrics Initiative, a comprehensive
    longitudinal study of Post-9/11 veterans by Penn State
    University, could be an instrumental guide in these much-needed
    reforms.
        Navigation of services remains a critical challenge.
    Findings from our latest Blue Star Families Lifestyle survey
    reveals that 36 percent of veteran spouses access transition
    resources through TAP. This underscores the need for formal
    channels to complement informal networks, especially for
    spouses who often manage household finances and family goals.
    Legislative measures should simplify resource navigation,
    shifting our focus from reactionary fixes to long-term economic
    and career preparation that prevents crises and secures lasting
    stability.
        Our veterans bring tremendous value to industries central
    to America's prosperity. For instance, memory chip giant Micron
    Technology is investing in a military talent pipeline through
    our O2O program to help staff what will be one of the largest
    semiconductor manufacturing facilities in the country. All of
    this shows that targeted initiatives can bridge the gap to high
    tech careers and bolster our Nation's energy and technology
    infrastructure.
        In closing, ensuring that our veterans and their families
    thrive is essential to the strength of our all-volunteer force.
    This mission demands a coordinated whole-of-nation approach,
    one that cuts through bureaucratic hurdles, forges robust
    partnerships and is driven by clear data-backed results. The
    D'Aniello Institute remains steadfast in its commitment to
    rigorous research and proven programs so that every veteran
    receives the support they deserve.
        Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Toenniessen appears on page
    166 of the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. Thank you very much. General Piatt, you are
    recognized for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF LT. GEN. WALTER E. PIATT (RET.), CHIEF EXECUTIVE
                    OFFICER, WOUNDED WARRIOR PROJECT

        Mr. Piatt. Chairman Bost and Moran, Ranking Members Takano
    and Blumenthal, and distinguished Committee Members. Thank you
    for today's hearing and for the honor to join you on behalf of
    Wounded Warrior Project and the warriors in families we serve.
    Over 20 years ago, when the first wounded service members
    returned from the battlefields, our organization made a promise
    to be there for these warriors no matter what. That promise is
    our why. It is the reason Wounded Warrior Project exists, to
    bring every warrior fully home, mind, body and soul and connect
    them back to a path in life of hope and purpose.
        Today, our promise endures. But the future of service will
    require more. Warriors will continue to defend our country.
    Warriors will struggle. More will be asked of our grateful
    Nation. More will be asked from all of us. No matter what is
    required, we must keep this promise. It is an extraordinary
    commitment in return for extraordinary sacrifice.
        As we look to the future, Wounded Warrior Project remains
    committed to working with you. Your invaluable support will
    make all the difference in helping our Nation's wounded
    veterans thrive in life following military service. Next week,
    100 warriors from Wounded Warrior Project will be coming to
    Washington, DC to visit all of you. These warriors will bring
    with them the experiences of struggle and uncertainty, but they
    will also bring with them the power of hope and healing. They
    are the voices for their communities and will help deliver the
    message of how we can best support them.
        They will specifically address three issues: mental health,
    financial wellness and traumatic brain injury. Our warriors
    will share how you can support their mental health needs. They
    will ask for your help in passing a Veterans' ACCESS Act which
    will set access standards for VAs mental health residential
    rehabilitation treatment programs. These intensive care
    programs provided changing--life changing mental health care,
    over 30,000 veterans in 2023 and we appreciate all who have
    made this critical issue a priority.
        Our warriors will also tell you how you can best support
    their financial wellness. They will once again ask Congress to
    pass the Major Richard Star Act which will expand concurrent
    receipt policy to more than 54,000 military retirees whose
    careers were cut short due to combat related injuries, allowing
    them to collect their full compensation through the VA and DoD
    that they earned and deserve.
        Our warriors will also tell you how you can support
    veterans living with traumatic brain injury. They will ask for
    continued investment in research that explores the course of
    neurological and cognitive functioning after TBI and builds
    evidence to expand access to effective treatments and
    community-based support. TBI is a complex injury with a
    spectrum of short- and long-term conditions. We must continue
    to support the study of impacts on repetitive low level blast
    injuries on veterans' mental health as we have with efforts
    like the Precision Brain Health Research Act of 2024.
        I am grateful that so many of you on this Committee have
    made time to meet with these warriors next week where they can
    share their experience with these issues and the lasting impact
    your support has had on their lives, their families, and their
    communities. I sincerely thank you for the honor to testify and
    for all you do and your part in helping us keep the promise.
    Thank you again for all you do. I look forward to your
    questions.
        [Applause.]

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Piatt appears on page 176 of
    the Appendix.]

        Chairman Bost. General, thank you and thank you. General
    thank you and thank each one of you for your testimony. We are
    now going to go to questions. I recognize myself for 3 minutes.
    Commander Campos, why is it so critical to hold VA accountable
    in its efforts to improve access to residential treatment
    options?
        Ms. Campos. Chairman, thank you for that question. Well, it
    is really important that VA expands its services to our RTP
    programs. Most of VA can't and is unable to deliver those
    services completely through its own system. So we need that
    care in the community. So, those services are vital, and that
    is where the veterans are. And it is especially important in
    rural areas where VA does not have a footprint. So those
    programs are very, very important. And we would also like to
    see some other expansions, even in terms of mental health with
    the Vet Center. So, it is more in the community. It is very
    well received by veterans. They feel comfortable going to those
    centers, and we would like to see that continued expansion.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Mr. Sheppard. There is currently
    a major focus on providing adequate care for our veterans, both
    within the VA system and throughout the community care
    providers. How has legislation such as MISSION Act been
    beneficial to strengthen ties between VA and community care
    providers?
        Mr. Sheppard. Thank you for that question, Chairman Bost. I
    will speak of my own situation. I find that community care is
    incredibly important and available. If there is one thing I
    have seen between care at the VA versus community care, the
    process for scheduling is a little clunky, but I think the VA
    has gotten better at that. But more importantly, the quality of
    the community care has been outstanding. And I see it across
    the Nation, that we continue to grow and improve in our ability
    to work those two together. And with the idea that, hey, it has
    the best interest of the veteran, get them to the right care
    and get them there as quickly as you can.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. General, in the past, Veteran
    Readiness and Employment in VR&E has been called the crown
    jewel of the VA by Members of this Committee. Recently,
    however, the VR&E has had some serious issues relating to
    staffing and modernization. What steps should Congress take to
    bring VR&E back to the level that the veterans deserve?
        Mr. Piatt. Thank you for the question and thank you for all
    you have done with this issue. I think just continued support
    there and I think leverage on the VSOs as well. I think we all
    have a role to play in here on employment for our veterans to
    get access to this care. I think it has a lot to ask for the VA
    to do it all on their own, but we believe continued pushing of
    that act will continue to bring the services our veterans need
    and deserve.
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Dr. Dexter, you are recognized
    for 3 minutes for questioning.
        Dr. Dexter. Thank you so much, Chairman Bost, and thank you
    for holding this important hearing, once again. Thank you to
    our witnesses for being here. Your advocacy is invaluable, as
    hopefully each of you know. I thank you all for what you do
    each and every day. Being advocates is a work of passion. It is
    a work of commitment. And I think right now it is also critical
    to acknowledge the extraordinary courage it takes for some to
    be in this space.
        Lindsay, I just want to be clear that I am grateful to you
    for your dedication. I am clear your courage is extraordinary
    at this moment in time, and it has a beacon of hope for many
    veterans across this country. Each and every veteran deserves
    equal respect [cheering]. And I hope all advocates will agree
    that every veteran earns that respect and will stand with you
    at this time.
        When I speak with veterans, veteran service providers, and
    VSOs in my district, one priority comes up time again and
    again, preventing veteran suicide. And the reality is stark.
    Lindsay, the system has consistently failed those you
    represent, and it has led to devastating health outcomes,
    including unacceptably high suicide rates. Lindsay, can you
    share how the Trump administration's recent Executive orders
    and mass firings have impacted the mental health resources
    available to your members?
        Ms. Church. Thank you. You are going to make me cry. Thank
    you for your remarks and for the question. Providers who serve
    trans patients are deeply uncertain about what they can do, how
    they are expected to treat us, and how they are going to be
    forced to discuss our care. My providers are unclear if they
    can even use the appropriate pronouns to address me.
        Non-consensually, transgender veterans have had their birth
    sex returned to their records, meaning that my birth sex has
    been revealed to everybody, including a dental scheduler. My
    gender identity is a deeply personal part of my identity, and
    it is a part of my health profile. Transgender veterans are
    making impossible decisions about whether or not to continue to
    use care at VA. My own provider can't even guarantee that I can
    be safe to continue to use care. I have to seek care outside of
    VA because I don't trust that I am going to be safe from DOGE
    data collection. I had my gender identity removed from my
    records because the libs of TikTok flagged it for DOGE and the
    Secretary of VA, and the next day, it was gone.
        It is unacceptable. We already had a transgender veteran
    die by suicide on January 27th in Syracuse, New York, in a
    parking lot. Like most of our veteran suicide, draped in a
    Trans Pride flag. We are dying and we are going to keep dying
    because the government is trying to erase us. We won't be
    erased, but we will suffer unnecessarily. And our providers
    have no idea what is going to be inbound.
        It is not only unethical, it has also a First Amendment
    violation. Telling people that they have to misgender us is
    unethical. It is against their code. As a doctor, you know
    this. It is unacceptable and it is inhumane. We are people
    trying to get access to care. We deserve it. We shouldn't have
    to beg and grovel to be treated as a regular person. We die by
    suicide at a higher rate than anybody at this table. Why are we
    being eradicated?
        Thank you.
        Dr. Dexter. Thank you.
        [Applause.]
        Chairman Bost. Thank you. Congressman Kennedy, you are
    recognized for 3 minutes.

                         HON. TIMOTHY KENNEDY,
                   U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEW YORK

        Mr. Kennedy. First of all, Lindsay, thank you for that very
    powerful message. To all of our veterans, thank you so much for
    being here. Thank you for your service to our country. Thank
    you today, folks, for your testimony.
        In Buffalo, New York, we are dealing with a very specific
    issue as it pertains to veteran care at the VA Medical Center.
    And following a chaotic and disturbing administrative issue,
    there were two leaders of that hospital that were pulled by the
    VA, removed, because not just of a lackluster performance, but
    of abhorrent administration of the work that they were sworn to
    do to help our veterans get the health care that they have
    earned and deserve. And so, in this moment, I am heartbroken to
    see what is happening with the cuts in the administrative jobs
    at the VA across this country, 1400 of which happened in the
    last few weeks. When by the VA's own account, there was already
    a shortage of 40,000 staff members. It is unconscionable. This
    should not be happening. But it is. Under this administration,
    in the efforts of unelected billionaire Elon Musk, who is
    running roughshod over our Constitution and our veterans, both
    those that served our country and then decided to go into
    public service, including service-disabled veterans. A third of
    the workforce in this country is made up of our veterans. Half
    of them are service disabled. We owe it to our veterans to
    prioritize their well-being, their livelihood, their place in
    the workforce of America, and treat them like the heroes that
    they are, not the way they are being treated.
        And so, to hear what I am hearing today and to know that
    these services are going to be cut, it is painful, it is
    unacceptable. And we as a country are better than this.
        I yield back.
        [Applause.]
        Chairman Bost. Ranking Member, you are now recognized for 3
    minutes. Ranking Member, you are recognized for 3 minutes.
    Everybody else has asked.
        Mr. Takano. So, my first question is for Mr. McLaughlin of
    the NACVSO. Mr. McLaughlin, I want to thank you for, thank you
    and your colleagues for the important work you do in connecting
    veterans with VA, and their earned health care and benefits is
    crucial work. I read in your testimony about the importance of
    strengthening partnerships between VA and advocates such as
    yourself. What is needed to achieve these strong relationships
    and how can Congress help you?
        Mr. McLaughlin. Thank you for that question, Ranking Member
    Takano. One of the big things that we are asking for is
    increased collaboration and communication between all levels of
    government. Right now, we appreciate the relationships that we
    have with our state partners, that we have with our federal
    partners, but it is very much siloed. And so, looking at that
    report as part of the VBIA Act that is directing VA to report
    back to you all with recommendations on how we can increase
    community frontline resources for veterans, not at a regional
    office, not at a medical center, where the veterans live.
    Counties, states, and municipalities are where our veterans
    live. They don't live at the medical center; they don't live at
    the regional office. So increasing that collaboration and
    formalizing the relationship similar like our Department of
    Justice has with our county attorneys, and our sheriffs, and
    our local law enforcement. If we can get together on board as
    united front, federal, state, and local, on that front, I think
    our veterans are owed for us to coordinate all efforts on their
    behalf.
        Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Lindsay, you and I have
    discussed many times VA's issues with gender-based harassment
    and your concerns. How can our Committees best impact the
    prevalence of harassment at VA?
        Ms. Church. Thank you for the question. The greatest thing
    that this Committee can do is oversight. Deborah Sampson Act
    added 5303, which is the preventing gender-based harassment.
    First and foremost, not removing gender is a really important
    part about being able to report on gender-based harassment.
    Second, of all gender-based harassment and discrimination
    claims are up 106 percent last year. That is a travesty that
    this Committee has focused heavily on.
        So, continuing that oversight, making sure that we
    strengthen provisions of Deborah Sampson, focusing on
    strengthening the reporting mechanism, and how do we report in
    a system where we don't trust the environment that we are going
    into. Discrimination cases are going to continue to go up. So
    are harassment cases in a culture that is permissive of it.
        Continuing to do oversight, making sure that the reports
    from Deborah Sampson are actually independent of the complaint.
    There are two reports that they tried to consolidate. Making
    sure that the reporting on Deborah Sampson is pure. Making sure
    that we can see the data and we can see the facilities that are
    in trouble. We continue to see an obscured amount of data if
    you have fewer than 10 instances at a VA facility, which you
    should be in remediation, we can't see that. So, making sure
    that we have proper oversight over the entire mechanism is
    deeply important to addressing the issue of harassment. Thank
    you.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you. I am done. I am done. Yes.
        Chairman Bost. I want to thank all of you for being here
    today. You know, that concludes today's VSO hearing. And I want
    to thank--I think it is clear that the Committee is
    collaborating with VA and has more work to do in services to
    our veterans and their families and we will continue to carry
    out that work. I ask unanimous consent that all Members shall
    have five legislative days in which revise and extend their
    remarks and include any extraneous material. Hearing no
    objections, so ordered. This hearing is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the Joint Committees were
    adjourned.]

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