    [Senate Hearing 119-11]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 119-11

                        NOMINATION OF ERIC SCOTT TURNER

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                       BANKING,HOUSING,AND URBAN AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       ON

                                 NOMINATION OF:

       ERIC SCOTT TURNER, OF TEXAS, TO BE SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING
                           AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

                                   __________

                                JANUARY 16, 2025

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                               Available at:  https://www.govinfo.gov/

                                   __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    58-913 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS

                      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina, Chairman

                ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts, Ranking Member

    MIKE CRAPO, Idaho                    JACK REED, Rhode Island
    MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            MARK R. WARNER, Virginia
    THOM TILLIS, North Carolina          CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
    JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana              CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee              TINA SMITH, Minnesota
    CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           RAPHAEL G. WARNOCK, Georgia
    KATIE BOYD BRITT, Alabama            ANDY KIM, New Jersey
    PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska              RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona
    JIM BANKS, Indiana                   LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
    KEVIN CRAMER, North Dakota           ANGELA D. ALSOBROOKS, Maryland
    BERNIE MORENO, Ohio
    DAVID MCCORMICK, Pennsylvania

                        Lila Nieves-Lee, Staff Director

                     Jon Donenberg, Minority Staff Director

                          Cameron Ricker, Chief Clerk

                          Shelvin Simmons, IT Director

                           Pat Lally, Assistant Clerk

                        Sheryl L. Arrington, GPO Detail

                          Jason T. Parker, GPO Detail

                                      (ii)

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 16, 2025

                                                                       Page

    Opening statement of Chairman Scott..............................     1
            Prepared statement.......................................    50

    Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of:
        Ranking Member Warren........................................     5
            Prepared statement.......................................    51
        John Cornyn, U.S. Senator from the State of Texas............     2

                                    NOMINEE

    Eric Scott Turner, of Texas, to be Secretary, Department of
      Housing and Urban Development..................................     7
        Prepared statement...........................................    52
        Biographical sketch of nominee...............................    54
        Responses to written questions of:
            Senator Britt............................................    64
            Senator Cramer...........................................    67
            Senator Warren...........................................    68
            Senator Reed.............................................    87
            Senator Warnock..........................................    92
            Senator Cortez Masto.....................................   100
            Senator Blunt Rochester..................................   106
            Senator Alsobrooks.......................................   113

                                     (iii)

                        NOMINATION OF ERIC SCOTT TURNER

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 16, 2025

                                           U.S. Senate,
              Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., via
    Webex and in room 538, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Tim
    Scott, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

        Present: Senators Scott, Warren, Crapo, Rounds, Tillis,
    Kennedy, Hagerty, Lummis, Britt, Ricketts, Banks, Cramer,
    Moreno, McCormick, Reed, Warner, Van Hollen, Cortez Masto,
    Smith, Warnock, Kim, Gallego, Blunt Rochester, and Alsobrooks.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN TIM SCOTT

        Chairman Scott. I call this Committee to order.
        First, I'd like to take the time to say I'm very grateful
    to my Republican colleagues for allowing me to serve as the
    Chairman for this 119th Congress.
        I'd also like to welcome our new Members to the United
    States Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.
        Let me suggest that this is not simply the Banking
    Committee. Without any question, urban affairs and housing are
    critical to meeting the needs and the objectives of the
    American people.
        Our new Members include Senator Pete Ricketts, Senator Jim
    Banks, Senator Bernie Moreno, Senator Dave McCormick, Senator
    Andy Kim, Senator Gallego, Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester, and
    Senator Angela Alsobrooks.
        And I look forward to working with our Ranking Member,
    Elizabeth Warren, on addressing some of the issues that our
    Nation will face, without any question. My hope is that in many
    ways we'll have an opportunity to have a bipartisan
    conversation looking for bipartisan solutions to many of the
    issues. That will probably not likely be the case all the time,
    but it can be the case some of the times, and when it is, we
    should look for ways to achieve that objective for the American
    people.
        At this time, I would like to ask unanimous consent to
    enter into the record four letters from 25 organizations that
    have been submitted to support Mr. Turner's nomination. Without
    objection, so ordered.
        We are honored today as well to have our colleague from
    Texas, Senator John Cornyn, who will introduce Mr. Turner.
        Senator Cornyn, the floor is yours.

     STATEMENT OF JOHN CORNYN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

        Senator Cornyn. Well, thank you. Mr. Chairman and Ranking
    Member Warren, and Members of the Committee, it's a pleasure to
    be here today to introduce my friend and fellow Texan, Scott
    Turner, to be the next Secretary of the U.S. Housing Department
    of Housing and Urban Development. And thank you for allowing me
    the honor of just saying a few words.
        Scott is a fourth-generation Texan. That's a big deal in
    Texas. People brag about how many generations they've lived
    there.
        And he's from Richardson, Texas, which is, for those of you
    who are not acquainted with the Texas geography I know Senator
    Warren is it's in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex, one of the
    fastest-growing parts of the country.
        If any of you here in this room are NFL fans, Mr. Chairman,
    for example, you may remember that Scott played in the NFL for
    9 years for the Washington Redskins, now known as the
    Washington Commanders, which, by the way, are doing pretty well
    these days; the San Diego Chargers, and the Denver Broncos.
    Unfortunately, Mr. Chairman, he didn't play for the Dallas
    Cowboys. I know that's a source of disappointment to you
        Chairman Scott. And it is, indeed, a source of
    disappointment, you are correct.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Cornyn. But Scott is much more than an outstanding
    football player. He's an accomplished leader and dedicated
    public servant. He was elected to the State House in Texas in
    2012 and he went on to serve at the White House under President
    Trump as Executive Director of the Opportunity and
    Revitalization Council.
        The Council was established by President Trump in 2018 to
    carry out the implementation of the Bipartisan Opportunity
    Zones, which were passed as part of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act
    to promote investment in areas that need revitalization. Lest
    we forget, the Committee Chairman, the other Scott in the room,
    was a driving force behind the Opportunity Zones portion of the
    Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
        This was a perfect position for Scott Turner, who was an
    accomplished businessman. He has served in the C suite in
    advisory roles in multiple positions and he and his wife own
    their own company, Statesman Clothiers.
        He's also an active member in his community. Scott founded
    a nonprofit called the Community Engagement and Opportunity
    Council to support impoverished children.
        He served as a coach for the NFL's Legends Community
    Transition Program, which helps players move into more
    meaningful employment when they leave professional sports. And
    I'm looking at Senator Britt, who happens to be married to
    somebody who did exactly that. And he also served as an
    Associate Pastor at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas.
        Scott currently serves as Chair of the Center for Education
    Opportunity for the America First Policy Institute.
        His business acumen, his experience in Government,
    especially with the first Trump administration, and his
    demonstrated ability to use housing and development to create
    brighter prospects for his fellow Americans makes him eminently
    qualified to lead the Department of Housing and Urban
    Development. I have no doubt about his ability to do an
    outstanding job there. So, it is my honor to support his
    nomination.
        Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Warren,
    for the privilege of introducing my friend Scott Turner, and I
    hope you will vote his nomination out of the Committee
    promptly, so we can get him confirmed and put him to work.
        Thank you so much.
        Chairman Scott. Thanks, Senator Cornyn.
        Next, I'll have my opening statement. Then, we'll hear from
    the Ranking Member, and then I'll swear you in, Scott.
        Chairman Scott. The American people have seen their
    economic fortunes turn to dust. The devastation of the Biden
    administration's policies led to mortgage rates going from 2.65
    percent in January 2021 to 7.79 percent by October 2023
    crushing dreams of millions of Americans wanting to be
    homeowners, draining savings of so many people, devastating
    hope around the greatest country on the planet.
        Reckless spending was literally stealing the spending power
    of so many Americans. I remember these similar days when I was
    growing up as a poor kid in a single parent household. Home
    ownership was just so far away for me and my mom. It just
    wasn't an option.
        Housing isn't just about shelter. Housing is about
    opportunity and it is about stability. Housing creates the
    foundation for achieving the American Dream. It's about
    creating strong communities where families can thrive and build
    a better, brighter future.
        Under the Biden administration and progressive leadership,
    HUD's spending at the same time soared to record levels. And
    yet, the latest homelessness survey found an 18 percent
    increase in just the last 12 months; 33 percent increase since
    2020.
        Since President Biden took office, mortgage rates have
    ballooned by 150 percent and rents by 20 percent. Despite all
    the subsidies and all the trillions of dollars they spent, not
    much good has happened.
        I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you look at
    the big picture African American home ownership, the levels
    have not changed substantially since 1968, when the Fair
    Housing Act was passed. The data is clear; the American dream
    of home ownership is slipping further and further away.
        But today, it is a new day in America, and new leadership
    brings hope and opportunity and enthusiasm back to the American
    people.
        Scott Turner is a native Texan who has had an exceptional
    journey from professional athlete to public servant. He
    understands firsthand the importance of hard work and what it
    means, as he was a dishwasher when he was in high school. He
    also understands the challenges that families face because of
    drug addiction within the family.
        He worked his butt off and had a very successful NFL
    career. He played cornerback for nine seasons. He played for
    the Denver Broncos, the San Diego Chargers it's going to be
    OK--and the Washington Redskins.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. You know, for a guy who now spends too much
    time in Washington, DC, I always thought DC meant Dallas
    Cowboys. I apologize, I apologize.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. I know that's going to cause a lot of bad
    emails coming my way.
        But, Mr. Turner, I will not hold that against you, that you
    played for the Redskins, because I know you're here to serve
    the American people. And sometimes two different sides have to
    come together to make something positive and powerful happen
    for other people.
        One thing I have found to be completely clear about who you
    are and I met you many years ago you never give up. I don't
    think giving up is in your vocabulary. And we need a visionary
    leader just like that at HUD.
        After hanging up your cleats, Mr. Turner, you spent two
    terms in the State Legislature in Texas.
        You recently were the Executive Director, as Senator Cornyn
    said, of the White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council
    under President Trump. In this role, you helped the Opportunity
    Zones that I wrote become a very successful program with over
    $50 billion in private investment going into Opportunity Zones;
    devastated communities, typically majority minority, seeing
    revitalization and rehabilitation become a reality without
    gentrifying those communities.
        As the former Chairman of the County Council in Charleston,
    South Carolina, I can tell you that the vast majority the vast
    majority of housing issues must be solved at the local level,
    but there are things that we can do here in Congress to address
    the affordability crisis and that role is getting Government
    out of the way as often as possible.
        This is why I introduced my ROAD to Housing Act in
    Congress. And I am so thankful for so many supporters in this
    room of that bill.
        I've seen firsthand the negative impact of renting your
    house, only to give it back, and that is, in a few short words,
    the 2008 crisis.
        Let's not relive the mistakes of the past, but, instead,
    forge a new path for everyday Americans. This commonsense bill
    takes a comprehensive view of Federal housing policy and it
    recenters support around families, helping those who are
    homeless, those who are renting, and those who will be
    homeowners.
        I look forward to marking up this bill in the weeks ahead
    and working with my colleagues on a bipartisan framework, so
    that we can make sure that all segments of the housing market
    get the necessary attention to move forward.
        As we start this new chapter, we need new leadership. Scott
    Turner is the solution we are looking for, and I look forward
    to his leadership at the Department of Housing and Urban
    Development.
        Senator Warren, the floor is yours.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER ELIZABETH WARREN

        Senator Warren. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        So, today is our first time to come together as Committee
    Chairman and Ranking Member. And I want to offer my
    congratulations to you, Mr. Chairman. While I don't want to
    paper over our differences, I want to assure you and every
    Member who is here that I will work with you to advance our
    shared interests.
        I also want to say welcome to eight new Members on this
    Committee.
        Have you checked, is that a record?
        Chairman Scott. It should be.
        Senator Warren. It should be. It should be.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. I don't know if it is, but it should be.
        Senator Warren. I think this is exciting. You know, we can
    find common ground. As Ranking Member, my focus will be the
    same as that of all Democrats. We will work to unrig the
    economy and make life affordable for working families.
        There are three critical areas where I think we should
    focus.
        First, we need to make sure that the financial system works
    for all Americans: preventing too-big-to-fail banks from
    loading on risk and getting bigger, protecting community banks,
    and making our financial regulations simpler and stronger.
        I support action here, but not all action is good action. I
    will fight tooth and nail against attempts to make it easier
    for Wall Street to rip off consumers or to crash our economic
    system.
        We all remember what happened under the first Trump
    administration. Congress and the President weakened the
    financial rules on big banks. The Nation's financial regulators
    took the hint and went to sleep. Executives got greedy and, no
    surprise, a few years later in 2023, we had the second, third,
    and fourth largest bank failures in our Nation's history. Those
    mistakes cannot be repeated.
        Second, we must advance the Nation's economic and national
    security. We must use export controls, trade policies,
    sanctions, and other levers to support economic security at
    home and to promote our values abroad. We must protect our
    financial system from being exploited by criminals, rogue
    States, and terrorists, and we must grow American industry,
    invest in critical infrastructure, and build resilient supply
    chains here at home.
        And third, we must focus on lowering costs for working
    families. The Committee must hold giant corporations
    accountable when they gouge families. We should partner with
    the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and other law
    enforcement agencies to continue the fight against junk fees
    and anticompetitive pricing.
        We must also work to fix our housing system. All across
    this country, housing costs too much. This is Econ 101, supply
    and demand. We are not building enough housing. We need more
    housing everywhere for everyone big cities, small towns, first-
    time homebuyers, renters, seniors, veterans, students, people
    with disabilities, everyone everywhere.
        To do that, we need to make some big changes and really
    move the needle. The Federal Government needs to be a good
    partner, investing in affordable housing and spurring local
    innovation to cut red tape.
        And we can and should do even more. It is time to crack
    down on corporate landlords that engage in illegal price-fixing
    to drive up rents. It's time to stop private equity firms from
    squeezing families and buying huge swaths of our housing
    market, which they then turn around and turn into overpriced
    rentals.
        Solving the housing crisis will be an all-hands-on-deck
    effort, and that brings us to today's hearing on the nomination
    of Scott Turner to be Secretary of Housing and Urban
    Development.
        Welcome, Mr. Turner. It's good to have you here.
    Congratulations on your nomination. If you are confirmed, you
    will lead our Nation's response to the housing crisis. Now,
    I've appreciated our conversations so far, and if you are
    confirmed, I will work with you however I can.
        But we face an enormous task to reduce the cost of housing.
    Our work is urgently important for tens of millions of American
    families.
        You have a limited public record and the American people
    need a chance to hear from you and to hear the details about
    how you are going to help make housing more affordable. They
    need to hear your plans for building the millions of homes that
    America needs. They need to hear how you will support renters
    and make sure that seniors and families that can't afford rent
    will get the assistance that they need. They need to hear your
    plans to help the 800,000 Americans experiencing homelessness.
    They need to hear your plans to enforce the Nation's fair
    housing laws, and they need to hear how you will crack down on
    greedy corporate landlords and manage an agency that provides
    critical support for homeowners, renters, and communities all
    across this country.
        This hearing is an opportunity for you to lay out your
    plans. I also sent you a 13-page letter, 75 questions, earlier
    this week. As you know, I take this seriously and I trust that
    you will give me answers to those detailed questions before we
    vote on your nomination.
        General principles are not enough. We're all in the same
    place on general principles. It's going to be the nuts and
    bolts and telling the American people how we're really going to
    make change happen.
        Mr. Turner, I'm looking forward to your testimony today and
    I hope you will give the American people a clear sense of your
    plans to run HUD.
        Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. I will now swear in the nominee.
        Mr. Turner, will you please rise and raise your right hand?
        Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are
    about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
    the truth, so help you God?
        Mr. Turner. I do.
        Chairman Scott. Do you agree to appear and testify before
    any duly constituted Committee of the Senate?
        Mr. Turner. I do.
        Chairman Scott. You may sit down.
        Your written statement will be made a part of the record in
    its entirety.
        Mr. Turner, please proceed.

      STATEMENT OF ERIC SCOTT TURNER, OF TEXAS, TO BE SECRETARY,
              DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

        Mr. Turner. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking
    Member Warren, and the Committee. I'm so happy and honored to
    be here with you all today.
        I thank all the Members of the Committee. Thank you for
    your thoughtfulness. Thank you for your engagement and for your
    ideas on rebuilding the American dream for our Nation's
    forgotten communities. It was a pleasure to visit with each and
    every one of you, all but one, and that was just because of a
    scheduling conflict. I'm so grateful to have that time to meet
    with you. Thank you for making that effort. And I hope that our
    conversations will not be the end, but only the beginning of a
    great and true partnership to meet the mission of HUD and serve
    the American people.
        I would also like to take a moment to thank my wife Robin,
    who is here with us, for her unwavering support over nearly
    three decades of us being together. From college at the
    University of Illinois to the NFL, to the Texas House, the
    White House, business, ministry, and our family foundation,
    Robin has been a true partner in building God's Kingdom and
    doing the work He's called us to do together.
        So, Robin, I thank you for your support, and all the
    friends and family that are here.
        I also want to thank President Trump for his confidence and
    his support in nominating me for this, such a crucial position,
    and even more so, purpose. So, I want to thank President-elect
    Trump.
        I sit before you today as the nominee to lead the
    Department of Housing and Urban Development, but deep down,
    Committee Members, this opportunity is also personal to me. I
    grew up as a kid, as it was mentioned before, in Richardson,
    Texas, and before that, in Plano, Texas, with my parents. I
    worked as a dishwasher at Spring Creek Barbeque, which is one
    of my claims to fame.
        Early on in my childhood, my family was broken due to
    divorce, and later, moving into a blended family. I love my
    mother; I love my father, and all of my brothers and sisters.
    But when you go through a divorce, many would say the odds are
    now stacked against you.
        I've overcame extreme adversity, going against the status
    quo in attending and graduating college. In spite of being
    drafted in the seventh round of the NFL which is the last
    round, for those that don't know--I was blessed to go on to
    have a successful career in the National Football League.
        I went on to serve in the Texas Legislature, which was a
    great honor for me, and work in the White House to advance the
    Opportunity Zone Initiative.
        And I sit before you today, Committee Members, humbled by
    the call to serve my country as a member of President Trump's
    Cabinet. And I know my upbringing and my background is not
    totally unique to me. There are many in this country, even
    those that sit in this room today, who at one point or another
    have had to overcome adversity in your own lives. We've all
    been there at one time or another, and I recognize this, and I
    hope that we all can work together, as you, Ranking Member
    Warren, have said, to work together to better the American
    dream for the American people.
        And I share my story because I think it's important for you
    to know my heart of who I am, and also, because the challenges
    that HUD faces are vital to our Nation, as well as personal to
    me. These are not just things that I heard about or read about.
    These are things that my family and I have experienced through
    the years, and I believe that that perspective will be very
    beneficial to HUD, as I become the leader, if confirmed by this
    Committee.
        HUD's mission is to create strong and sustainable
    communities and support quality affordable housing, serving the
    most vulnerable of our Nation. Yet, as we sit here, we have a
    housing crisis in our country. We have the American people and
    families that are struggling every day. We have a homelessness
    crisis in our country. HUD, if you will, is failing at its most
    basic mission and that has to come to an end.
        The Point-in-Time report that was sent out by HUD on
    December the 27th said there was 770,000 Americans homeless on
    one night in January of 2024 770,000-plus people, many of which
    are families who are homeless. This cannot continue.
        As a country, we are not building enough housing. We need
    millions of homes, all kinds of homes. Multifamily, single
    family, duplex, condo, manufactured housing, you name it, we
    need housing in our country for individuals and families to
    have a roof over their head and to call home.
        Then, the HUD workforce, the reports that I've read,
    Committee, says that HUD is at the bottom when it comes to
    employees returning to work. I've been on many teams in my
    career and I believe that we need to bring HUD's staff back to
    work, back to the office, to do the job and empower them to
    serve the American people.
        In this moment, we're not just talking about fixing what's
    broken, but about continuing and expanding the policies from
    the first Trump administration. I'm talking about policies that
    worked for the American people.
        I was fortunate enough, as you said, Chairman, to lead the
    Opportunity Zone Initiative, which I'm so grateful for your
    leadership on that, and I saw firsthand the impact of this
    initiative as it gave Americans living in underserved
    communities an opportunity, a foundation, to start businesses,
    to live in better homes, to be self-sustaining, to be self-
    confident, and to unleash that promise and potential that the
    Lord has given each of us in our country.
        When I played in the NFL, we used to have game film. We
    watched film after every game. You could tell your coach one
    thing on the sideline, but when you turned on the film, it told
    the story. It wasn't about the chatter. It wasn't about the
    noise. It was what? About what the film said. The film showed
    us our weaknesses. It showed us our mistakes, and then, it
    helped us to get better.
        This is the same type of leadership, if confirmed by this
    distinguished Committee, that I want to bring as the leader of
    HUD. Because every day we will have an opportunity to get
    better. Every day we will have an opportunity to take inventory
    and make HUD the best place.
        So, Mr. Chairman, my heart is ready. I'm ready. I thank God
    for this opportunity and thank you and the Committee Members
    for this chance.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you very much for your testimony, Mr.
    Turner.
        I'll just remind our new Members, or tell our new Members
    and remind those of us who have been on this Committee for a
    little while, we do have a 5-minute clock, and I'm going to
    hold us pretty tightly to that 5-minute clock, including
    myself. That's my goal.
        And so, let's get started right now. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Turner, one of the things I hope that you will realize
    is that this is a bipartisan Committee. We represent different
    communities around the country. And I think Government should
    never serve the party that is in power. Government should serve
    all Americans, no matter whether we vote for you or not. Your
    job is to stay out of the political lane and serve the American
    people.
        So, for me, one of the most effective ways to serve people
    is to go where they are, not ask them to come into the bubble
    of this building. But we have to get out of our offices, so to
    speak, and go into the community.
        So, one of my questions for you and frankly, my first
    question for you is, will you commit to visiting communities as
    diverse as North Charleston and as different as Detroit in your
    first several months on the job? I think you need to see
    firsthand that--Mr. Tillis has music he wants to play.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. Play that funky music.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. Anyways, I won't finish that.
        Anyways, I'll just say this, that I hope that you will go
    to Detroit, Michigan, and see the devastation and the sense of
    hopelessness that can be turned very quickly into hope. I want
    you to come to my hometown of North Charleston and take a tour
    of some of the impoverished areas and look at mixed development
    and remind people that we care about everybody.
        What do you say?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, I'm in agreement. I remember when I
    was appointed to do the Opportunity Zone job as the Executive
    Director, after I thanked the President for the appointment, I
    said, Mr. President, I'm not going to be here because I'm going
    to the streets where the people are. I went to over 70 cities
    in our country, visiting places like Tamaqua, Pennsylvania;
    visiting places like Birmingham, Alabama; Dallas, Texas;
    Liberty City in Miami.
        And so, yes, sir, that is a commitment from you, from me to
    you and this Committee, that I will go to the people of
    America, visit the neighborhoods, visit the leaders, the
    servant-leaders, in our country to see, you know, what is the
    problem that you are having and how can we work together to
    come up with sustainable solutions?
        Chairman Scott. Thank you.
        Mr. Turner. And I think that's very important.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you. One of the challenges I think
    that we have is meeting the housing needs of our citizens,
    frankly, as I think Elizabeth and I both agree, is over 7
    million needed units.
        I think a part of my ROAD to Housing Act suggests that the
    definition that we use for manufacturing needs to be updated.
    If we're going to meet the needs of the average person, I think
    improving the definition of manufactured home in the HUD Code
    to remove the permanent chassis requirement is incredibly
    important.
        Do you support updating the HUD Code to change the
    definition in manufacturing homes?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I know how
    important manufactured homes are when it comes to housing
    availability and housing affordability. And so, to look at
    those codes and all the codes at HUD and take inventory in how
    we can reduce the burden and make it less cumbersome to build
    these houses, including manufactured housing, is a commitment I
    do give to you, sir.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you. You know, I said during my
    opening statement that the homelessness has increased by 30
    percent since 2020.
        Mr. Turner. Yeah.
        Chairman Scott. Devastating. Do you have specific thoughts,
    in 30 seconds or so, on how you would address the homelessness
    issue and start bringing it down some?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. So, homelessness, I think that we
    need to engage local communities, local communities and
    organizations, faith-based organizations, institutions that
    have real results as it comes to combating homelessness. I
    think the Federal Government can be a great partner, but we do
    need to engage those that are on the local level that have
    great results as it pertains to homelessness and work with
    them.
        Chairman Scott. I think the fifty laboratories of democracy
    gives us an opportunity to see what's working and what's not
    working, and we should direct our attention toward those issues
    that are working.
        I had an opportunity to meet with some of my Democrat
    mayors in South Carolina, and one of the things that they were
    celebrating was the success of Opportunity Zones for the first
    time bringing affordable housing back into their communities.
        And I've seen that in South Carolina. I've heard it in
    Maryland and I've heard it across our country, that this is one
    of the programs where my favorite mayors around the country,
    many of whom are Democrats, celebrate Opportunity Zones. And my
    favorite Governors around the country are oftentimes
    Republicans who celebrate Opportunity Zones.
        Mr. Turner. Right.
        Chairman Scott. And I'm not suggesting that we should
    celebrate Opportunity Zones, but I'm glad that they do.
        Can you speak to the benefit of Opportunity Zones
    alleviating poverty and creating opportunities for everyday
    Americans?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Scott. In about 20 seconds.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Turner. Yes, I'll do my very best. Opportunity Zones
    were very impactful. And if you look at the reports that we did
    while running the Opportunity Zone Council, you'll see a
    million people were lifted out of poverty. Housing went up for
    minority families. Salaries went up for minority families.
        And so, to give people an opportunity to invest in places
    that had not seen investment in many decades is great for our
    Nation as it pertains to housing, affordable housing, and
    operating businesses.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you very much.
        Senator Warren.
        Senator Warren. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        So, Mr. Turner, I want to ask you about why housing costs
    are so high. You recently said there is ``an ever-growing need
    for high-quality, affordable housing in our Nation.'' Experts
    have said, as the Chairman said, we need about 7 million new
    housing units in America.
        Now, there are a lot of explanations for our housing
    shortage. Local zoning and land use restrictions can make it
    harder to build homes. The cost of capital, which has been made
    worse by the Fed's decision to keep interest rates high, makes
    it even more difficult both to build and to buy housing.
        And there are places where the Federal Government can help.
    Take the HOME program. HUD gives grants to States and
    localities to help build and preserve affordable housing, and
    it works. In its history, HOME has supported the development of
    more than a million affordable units nationwide, including more
    than 100,000 homes in your home State of Texas.
        Mr. Turner, in 2023, you said that, ``It is more expensive
    than ever to build and developers need access to more
    capital.''
        Do you support additional Federal investment in programs,
    so that we can lower the cost of building affordable housing?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Warren. I appreciate our
    visit together and thank you for your time in this.
        As you said, there are many factors to why housing is so
    expensive now. And I believe, first, we have to get our fiscal
    house in order in our country. Interest rates are at an all-
    time high. Inflation is at an all-time high.
        Senator Warren. Fair enough, Mr. Turner.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Warren. But I'd just like to focus because it is a
    big problem.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Warren. And I'm sorry to interrupt, but----
        Mr. Turner. Sure.
        Senator Warren. ----the Chairman is going to be tough on
    time.
        And that is, I just want to make sure I understand. Do you
    support additional Federal investment in programs, so that we
    can lower the cost of building affordable housing?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Warren.
        What I do support is maximizing the budget that we do have
    and making sure that the money----
        Senator Warren. So, is that a no to additional investments?
        Mr. Turner. It's a yes to maximizing the investment that we
    have and making sure that the programs that we do have are
    meeting the intended need and serving those that are intended
    to serve.
        Senator Warren. Well, I have to say that gives me real
    pause. You know, we just established that we have a terrible
    gap of affordable housing and we have a program here that has
    helped close that gap. State and local governments, I
    understand, bless them, they're doing what they can, but they
    don't have enough money to match the scale of the problem
    nationwide.
        And what I'm looking for is a commitment that we're at
    least going to look, try to get some more help to the State and
    local communities that are trying to build affordable housing.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
        And I do look forward to looking at the HOME program and
    other programs, but my point, there's record funding from HUD.
    HUD's budget is nearly $70 billion at this point and we're
    still not meeting the need that we're supposed to be meeting.
        Senator Warren. Which might mean that we need more money
    there.
        Mr. Turner. And so, I think we need to take inventory----
        Senator Warren. Let me----
        Mr. Turner. ----and maximize the budget.
        Senator Warren. ----if I can, turn to another topic.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Warren. You know, unfortunately, there are some
    people who are trying to take advantage of our housing shortage
    instead of trying to fix it. Private equity firms and corporate
    landlords have moved into local housing markets and they have
    driven up costs even higher for families.
        In 2011, no single investor anywhere in America owned more
    than a thousand single family homes. By 2022, just five
    investors, collectively, owned nearly 300,000 homes. In fact,
    in your home State of Texas, in 2021, big investors moved in
    and they bought a whopping 28 percent of all homes that went on
    the market.
        So, Mr. Turner, the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott,
    recently said, ``Corporate large-scale buying of residential
    homes seems to be distorting the market and making it harder
    for the average Texan to purchase a home.''
        Do you agree that it is a problem if big corporate
    investors are beating out families to try to buy homes?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. And I haven't seen that
    statement from Governor Abbott, but I do look forward to
    looking at this issue, and even working with you and your staff
    on this issue.
        I believe that we do have a housing affordability crisis in
    our country. The more capital we get into the market, the
    better. And obviously, we want the right people, qualified
    people, to invest.
        And the stats that I saw, Senator, said about 2 percent of
    institutional investors own these single family homes.
        And so, if I'm confirmed by this Committee, I look forward
    to digging into this more with you, so that we can look at this
    issue together.
        Senator Warren. Well, I appreciate that. You know, we've
    got to be laser-focused on lowering the cost of housing for
    families.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
        Senator Warren. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Rounds.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And
    congratulations to both of you in your new positions.
        Mr. Turner, first of all, thanks for the opportunity to
    visit with you in my office. I really appreciated that.
        And I think we have the same focus, which is, when the
    traditional market is available, when interest rates are low,
    and individuals can afford to literally get a mortgage, and
    when the opportunities are available, so that the entryway to
    getting that mortgage is simplified and brought down, more
    people can, through the traditional markets, actually have that
    home ownership.
        And I personally believe that equity that is in that home
    should be with that homeowner and not with the Federal
    Government. So, I really do like the idea of having the
    individual have that home ownership opportunity.
        And I'd just like your thoughts for just a minute. And I
    don't need to push it too far, but isn't it really, isn't that
    really what this is all about, is allowing individuals the
    ability to gain equity in their home and for them to have that
    value, rather than simply paying rent through a Federal
    program? Wouldn't it be much better to have the private sector
    loaning the money and an individual actually getting equity in
    that home?
        Mr. Turner. Senator, thank you. Senator Rounds, it was good
    to meet and visit with you.
        And, you know, for most Americans, their home is the
    largest investment that they have and that's how they begin to
    build generational wealth. I know that was, like, for me and my
    family growing up and even now.
        And so, yes, I believe that having that equity in their
    home should be available to that homeowner because that's how
    most families begin to grow wealth and achieve the American
    dream.
        Senator Rounds. So, I think that's one of the reasons why
    President Trump was elected, was to bring down that cost of
    interest on a home, so that more people can get into that. And
    I think that's a really important part, is that, once you get
    that equity in that home, now you have other opportunities and
    it's a whole lot easier if that individual has that opportunity
    in the first place. And so, I think it's a step in the right
    direction.
        At the same time, we have areas, such as on our Native
    American reservations in South Dakota, where the challenge is
    that it's Tribal trust land.
        Mr. Turner. Right.
        Senator Rounds. You know, we've got about 15 percent of our
    population is Native American. And for them to be able to have
    a home, it means in a rural area that we've got to have access
    to people that understand how you put a mortgage on a home
    which is located on Tribal trust. And I would just ask for your
    commitment to working with us to make that as simple as
    possible in those rural areas.
        Mr. Turner. Absolutely, and I really appreciate your care
    for your constituents, and particularly, those in Tribal lands.
    And I do commit to working with you and, also, visiting, so
    that we can go visit those leaders at the Tribal lands and see
    how we can make it the most efficient and affordable for them
    and their families.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you. And I really appreciate that and
    I'm going to hold you to that.
        Mr. Turner. All right.
        Senator Rounds. I think that would be really good. And if
    you really want to take poverty out, and some of them are rural
    areas, start with providing an opportunity for home ownership
    on our reservations and it will make a huge difference.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Rounds. And in our office we talked about a number
    of items, but one of those items that we talked about was
    trying to cut the red tape and making Federal programs work
    more effectively and efficiently. As a former State legislator,
    you, undoubtedly, understand the challenges and the costs
    associated with excessive Federal overreach. At a time when
    there is a growing demand for additional housing units there's
    no question about that Federal regulations like Davis-Bacon
    environmental review, Build America Buy America, and new energy
    standards are slowing the construction process and increasing
    costs nationwide, including on Tribal lands. Breaking down some
    of this bureaucracy should be a part of the discussion, as we
    try to incentivize housing development.
        My question for you is, under your leadership, will the
    Department make it a priority to review and adjust program
    regulations to match the level of risk, based on the type of
    activity, the location, or the amount of Federal funds
    involved?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. And the goal, if confirmed by this
    Committee, is to look at all the programs at HUD and take an
    account and take inventory, and ask, you know, is this helping
    the mission of HUD or is it not? Is it helping to build more
    affordable housing or is it not? Is it combating the
    homelessness crisis or is it not? And so, yes, sir, I do make
    that commitment.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you. And one last question is, during
    our meeting, we also discussed the challenges with HUD's
    Section 202 program in South Dakota. And I think this will
    eventually be a problem nationwide. And so, the need for
    greater flexibility to adapt to changes in housing markets,
    service industries, and tenant populations, particularly in
    rural communities where we may have to make some modifications
    to existing 202 programs. I would just ask for your commitment
    to work with us to be able to resolve some of these issues
    which are front and center today.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank
    you.
        Chairman Scott. Mr. Warner.
        Senator Warner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Turner, it's great to see you again. Thank you for our
    meeting.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Warner. I do want to just add quickly to what
    Senator Warren said. You know, in a bipartisan way, we put
    about $5 trillion out under both President Trump and Biden
    under COVID. One area we did nothing for was housing. And while
    I'm all into public-private, I do think there needs to be
    additional resources, if we're going to spur this issue. And I
    appreciate the conversation we had.
        I want to hit quickly two or three items that I hope we can
    work together on.
        As Members of the Committee know, I've been a big advocate
    for Community Development Financial Institutions, CDFIs, that
    serve the underserved community. It was actually where I worked
    very closely with the first Trump administration. Working with
    my friend Mike Crapo and many on the other side, we got $12
    billion for CDFIs. We started the CDFI Caucus, which is, I'm
    proud to say, bipartisan, 24 members, 12 Ds, 12 Rs.
        I appreciated when we had the meeting you talked about a
    CDFI in Dallas that had helped work to acquire a building,
    working with a church, a school building. Can you speak for a
    moment or two about the value of CDFIs and how we can further
    expand the vital role they play?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, and thank you. Senator Warner, it was
    great to visit with you and learn more about CDFIs, how you're
    doing, and your vision on that.
        And we do see the value in that. And I will say that I look
    forward to working with you further in your home State and
    other areas around the country to see how we can utilize these
    CDFIs to help when it comes to housing and investments inside
    our local communities.
        Senator Warner. Well, thank you. I mean, one of the things,
    also, I appreciated in one of your earlier answers as well
    said, you know, we all know home ownership is the path to
    wealth creation in this country. It's one of the reasons we've
    got a 10-to-1 ratio wealth gap Black-to-White, because it's
    fair to have home ownership fully representative across all
    communities.
        And again, a program I've worked on, and got some interest
    from both sides of the aisle, called the LIFT program, that
    would target first-generation, first-time homebuyers, which, by
    definition, ends up being about two-thirds of folks of color.
    That would say, if you qualify for a 30-year mortgage, what we
    would give you would be: you make those payments. You get a 20-
    year mortgage. You double the amount of equity that you obtain
    in that first 10 years. That is that wealth creation notion.
        Again, we talked briefly about it, but I'd like to get you
    on the record. This would be something, how we can increase
    home ownership, which is really for disadvantaged communities,
    using the market. I'd love to get you saying some nice things
    about that.
        Mr. Turner. Oh, yes, sir. Thank you.
        And, you know, this program that we talked about briefly in
    your office, I do look to further going into that and learning
    more about it. As you say, you know, we do have a housing
    crisis in our country. And I heard one leader say, you know,
    all ideas need to come to the table and we'll pick the best
    one, you know, that impacts the people that we serve. And so, I
    look forward to getting further----
        Senator Warner. I've got two more I want to get in very
    quickly.
        Mr. Turner. OK.
        Senator Warner. One is, again, another topic we talked
    about in my office. And this is a challenge in every State in
    the country. And Virginia may be a little more on the cutting
    edge, as States look at both the challenges, upside and
    downside, of bringing data centers to their community. Generate
    a lot of revenue. Also, got some challenges.
        I've talked about Henrico County, which is outside of
    Richmond, a 400,000-person community. It crosses the economic
    strata. This community has done something very creative where
    they've taken the tax revenue from the data centers, dedicated
    that to a housing trust fund, where that housing trust fund
    helps acquire the land. And if you build some affordable
    housing there, you get waived a lot of the regulations. You
    don't have to pay your sewer permit fees, your regulatory fees.
        This may be one tool in the toolkit that takes something
    that, otherwise, is a bit controversial. It still has
    controversy, but it might generate toward the kind of public-
    private initiative.
        Again, I invited you to my office. I want to invite you to
    Henrico County to visit and take a look at this program, should
    you be confirmed.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, I look forward to coming.
        Senator Warner. OK. Great.
        The last one--and I'm going to get all my points in in less
    than 5 minutes; I'm down to 44 seconds, Tim, and I'm going to
    get it done in time--and that is, you know, Opportunity Zones I
    think had a lot of potential. Again, Senator Scott, I was one
    of his wingmen on this.
        I still think they do need to be renewed, but they need to
    be updated as well. I think Opportunity Zones, particularly in
    terms of affordable housing, ought to be an area where we could
    put more focus, as well as small business development.
        In your last 15 seconds, I know we've talked about
    Opportunity Zones, but I hope you'll work with the Chairman and
    many of us on how we could reform that program and make it more
    targeted toward this housing shortage?
        Mr. Turner. Absolutely. I look forward to that.
        Senator Warner. Thank you, sir.
        Three seconds left.
        Chairman Scott. Everyone should follow your lead on that
    one, Senator Warner.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Tillis.
        Senator Tillis. Mr. Chair, I have muted my phone.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. That was good music, though.
        Senator Tillis. Yes, that was a text from my wife, by the
    way.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Tillis. But, Mr. Turner, thank you for being here.
    I think probably one of your standout games was December 1994
    when you got two interceptions against the Arizona Cardinals.
    Is that right?
        Mr. Turner. I think that was a good game.
        Senator Tillis. Yeah. Well, you'd better be ready to
    intercept a lot of bad ideas in your new role.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tillis. One bad idea is just throwing money after
    something without trying to figure out how to fix the plumbing
    in HUD.
        Thank you for the time that you spent in the office. I'm
    going to support your confirmation because, in the 30-40
    minutes that we spent in my office--much more than I could do
    in the remaining 4 minutes and 20 seconds--but I say this to--
    I've said this to anyone who's come before this Committee in
    your role.
        That trailer park that I grew up in in Nashville still
    stands. Those people are hurting.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tillis. They don't have affordable housing, and one
    of the reasons they don't is because Government tries to keep
    on regulating themselves out of any path to ownership.
        Mr. Turner. Right.
        Senator Tillis. We keep on talking about throwing more
    money at it and we repeatedly discount the money that we're
    providing because we're rewarding State and local governments
    that are high-tax and low-value.
        So, can I get your commitment to do right by those people
    who are struggling to make ends meet, and want to order an
    affordable home and do the hard work, to do a program/portfolio
    inventory in HUD? Find the ones that are working; continue
    them. Stop the ones that aren't and start ones that give more
    people more opportunities to afford a home, like those people
    that are living in that trailer park today.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, I commit.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you. Now I want to talk about western
    North Carolina. It was, I think, without question, it
    experienced something that's never been experienced in an
    inland storm. You know, people talk about Asheville. There are
    almost two dozen Ashevilles in western North Carolina in an
    area that covers a land mass roughly the size of Massachusetts.
        We have CDBG-R disaster recover funds that have been
    allocated. And quite honestly, Governor Cooper has now
    transitioned from office, but his administration was abysmal in
    remitting funds and getting it out the door. I have complained
    about this for about as long as he was in office for nearly
    three different major storms that have come into North
    Carolina, and we're about to hit the same speed bump in western
    North Carolina and we can't afford to.
        Can I get your commitment to come down to North Carolina
    with me, so that you can see firsthand what we need to do to
    make sure that we help those people?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, and I'll commit to coming. Thank you.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you. Now, with the time that you've
    spent, you made a reference--there are some people on this
    Committee--you made a comment that's very important. We need to
    flood the zone and get more capital in, if we're going to
    address the affordable housing problem.
        Do you think private investment, even private equity
    investment, is a bad thing to get capital into market to fix
    this problem?
        Mr. Turner. You know, Senator, thank you for your question.
        I believe the more capital, the better. And there are
    companies out there that are investing in the market. And
    obviously, they have to be qualified. They have to have a great
    track record. We don't want the wrong people investing.
        Senator Tillis. Do you agree that there should be
    transparency and that we should know what they're doing, and we
    should make sure that being a part of the portfolio is
    producing more value for the people who need affordable
    housing?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, I think transparency and
    accountability is key.
        Senator Tillis. And in the remaining time, tell me why you
    believe your life experience best qualifies you for this role?
        Mr. Turner. Because, as I said in my opening statement,
    Senator, you know, these aren't just things that I've heard
    about. These are things that my family and I have experienced
    through the years.
        I had an uncle who was found homeless and he was a veteran.
    When they found him, my family and I were able to come around
    him, to love him, to take him in, to give him the wraparound
    services that he needed. Not only was he homeless, but he was
    beaten and battered and he had a life-debilitating disease,
    which ultimately took his life. He's with the Lord now. But the
    latter days of his life were the best days of his life. But he
    was homeless. But we were able to come around him and provide
    for him what he needed.
        I've had other members of my family that have been on
    Government assistance, including my wife grew up on Government
    assistance and did very well, and God graced her to go to
    college, graduate with a master's, and has been married to me
    for almost 29 years.
        Senator Tillis. Mr. Turner, I know you said that in your
    opening statement. We talked about it in the meeting. It bears
    repeating.
        Having a life like you, I'm convinced that we can get good
    things done. Thank you for being here.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. I will say that, between Senator Warner and
    Senator Tillis, giving time back was a blessing.
        Senator Van Hollen.
        Senator Van Hollen. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And Scott----
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Van Hollen. Mr. Turner, Mr. Turner, good to see you
    and it was great to sit down with you yesterday. I appreciate
    the opportunity.
        And let me just say that, to me, it shows excellent
    judgment that a man from Texas would come to play for what was
    then the Washington Redskins, now the Washington Commanders.
        And I will point out to my colleagues--and I know Senator
    Cornyn had to leave--but in the last game that we played, the
    Commanders played against the Cowboys.
        Mr. Turner. Mm-hmm.
        Senator Van Hollen. The Commanders won and they're in the
    playoffs. And all of us in Maryland are hoping for a Ravens-
    Commanders Super Bowl. All right? That's what we're all rooting
    for.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Van Hollen. OK. So, let me just address some of the
    issues we discussed yesterday.
        And I mentioned in our meeting that Senator Todd Young and
    I have introduced a bipartisan legislation entitled, ``The
    Family Stability and Opportunity Vouchers Act'', which would
    create housing vouchers targeted on families with young kids
    and enable them to move to areas of higher opportunity. There's
    lots of research that shows that that helps break the cycle of
    poverty and create more generational wealth and income.
        The legislation we've introduced is based on a pilot
    program that we launched in legislation that was signed by
    President Trump the last time he was in the Oval Office. And
    the early signs from the pilot program have been so
    encouraging, we went ahead and introduced a full piece of
    legislation. So, I'd like to move forward on that, and just
    ask, if you are confirmed, whether you will work with us to
    advance that legislation?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, Senator, and it was great to visit
    with you. And, yes, I do look forward to working with you.
        Senator Van Hollen. So, let me address another area that we
    talked about, which is the cost of housing. I think all of us
    recognize we have an affordable housing crisis in the United of
    America. You agree with that, right?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Van Hollen. And obviously, some of the inputs to
    housing are the materials. We talked about how you have a
    multifamily housing business. And when I asked you what were
    the primary drivers of increased costs, one of the first things
    you said was the cost of actually building the home and the
    materials, right?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Van Hollen. Right. So, I want to talk to you about
    those inputs, because, obviously, lumber is a huge cost for
    housing. And the previous Trump administration increased the
    tariffs on lumber. The current Biden administration kept them
    on and raised them a little further. I think they're now about
    15 percent.
        Would you agree that it would make housing more
    unaffordable if we further increased tariffs on lumber?
        Mr. Turner. Well, you know, that's the President's job and
    I know he's going to do everything he can to bring costs down,
    the cost of----
        Senator Van Hollen. No, I mean, this is math. I'm just
    asking you--there are lots of factors here--but would you agree
    that, if you increase the tariffs on lumber, which is a major
    input to the cost of housing, that increases the cost of
    housing?
        Mr. Turner. Well, I think there's a lot of increase to the
    cost of housing. I don't want to get into the tariffs
    conversation because, obviously, that is not my job; that's the
    President and your job as Congress.
        But what I want to do is combat anything that raises the
    cost of housing, be it the cost of construction; be it fees; be
    it regulatory burdens. That's what I'm focused on, Senator, to
    bring those things down.
        Senator Van Hollen. Right. No, look, I appreciate that. You
    know, if you're confirmed, you're going to be Secretary of
    Housing and affordable housing will be part of your portfolio,
    a major part of it. And obviously, you'll be at the Cabinet
    meetings, if confirmed.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Van Hollen. And so, I hope you will pass on to the
    President, as he considers these things, the impact that will
    have.
        Look, I support targeted tariffs to protect strategic U.S.
    industries. I mean, that's a very important thing.
        Mr. Turner. Right.
        Senator Van Hollen. But a broad-based set of tariffs across
    all sorts of goods that we're importing, obviously, drives up
    costs to Americans, just like it drives it up for housing.
        And there's another area of housing that includes gypsum.
    By the way, we produce some gypsum in the United States, but we
    also import a lot of gypsum, including through the Port of
    Baltimore.
        That's another area, if President Trump is talking about
    increasing tariffs across the board for Americans by 10 to 20
    percent, won't those tariffs on gypsum and other things also
    raise the cost of housing and make it less affordable?
        Mr. Turner. Senator, I do commit to you to having these
    conversations, if confirmed by this Committee, with the
    President, because, obviously, affordable housing, if I'm the
    Secretary of HUD, will be my responsibility. So, I do commit to
    having these and more conversations on how we can bring costs
    down in our country, so that we can build, build, build
    affordable housing. So, I do commit that to you, sir.
        Senator Van Hollen. I appreciate that. And again, just this
    is a simple mathematical proposition, and if we're serious
    about affordable housing, we can't have across-the-board
    tariffs in an unstrategic way.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Scott. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. Senator Hagerty, you are next, sir.
        Senator Hagerty. Welcome, Mr. Turner.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Senator Hagerty. Very good to see you here today. Let me
    get this on here.
        Again, welcome. Glad to see you here.
        First, I would like to talk with you a bit about what is
    happening with our Nation's housing, our demand and supply
    perspective on that. I think it is well documented that we have
    a serious supply shorting housing--about 4 million homes short,
    as I understand it.
        At the same time, the current Administration is championing
    these de facto subsidies like tax credits, down payment
    assistance, and looser lending policies which, obviously, will
    stimulate demand but at the same time have they pursued various
    regulatory policies that have had the effect of constraining
    supply.
        And we all know what happens when you constrain supply and
    you stimulate demand. Prices go up. So we have seen massive
    inflation not only in the cost of homes but in rent, and I
    think that has been a big driver of the inflation that we have
    suffered.
        So I really want to understand how you are thinking about
    affordability of housing and supply of housing in the context
    of this supply and demand dynamic.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Hagerty. It is great to see
    you again. And, yes, you know, obviously, we do have an
    affordability crisis. Regulatory reform both from the Federal
    Government and the State government is much needed.
        We want to make it more flexible and easier for developers
    to build affordable workforce attainable housing across our
    country, and so if confirmed by this Committee one thing that I
    want to do which is top priority is look at all the regulatory
    burdens from the Federal side and also to work with localities
    and States to see how we can ease those burdens so developers
    can build and so the supply goes up as the demand goes up
    because right now we are not meeting that demand.
        Senator Hagerty. Yeah. I want to come to the State and
    local component in just a minute. But on the Federal side if
    you think about the Federal interventions that have taken place
    to I think the intention has been to stimulate affordable
    housing have they had the desired effect, in your mind?
        Mr. Turner. Well, right now it does not seem as if they
    have because we have a crisis in our country. We have had
    record funding from HUD as it pertains to affordable housing
    but yet we are still not meeting the need of those that need.
    We have waiting lists when it comes to affordable housing.
        So I think we need to take a deep dive and fresh look at
    the programs in HUD and also working with the local governments
    to see how we can ease this burden because we have families
    that are hurting that need affordable housing.
        Senator Hagerty. I think we all share the same concern and
    I look forward to working with you on that regard particularly
    at the Federal to go the State and local level for a moment I
    would like to just share one of my experiences.
        Before I went into the previous Trump administration as
    Ambassador to Japan I served as in effect the Commerce
    Secretary of Tennessee. I ran the Department of Economic and
    Community Development.
        One of the areas that I was responsible for in that
    department was administering community development block grants
    and this is just an example of an opportunity I see at HUD
    because I went through a major streamlining process.
        Tennessee had a budget deficit of about $1.6 billion so I
    went through my department and did a streamlining process that
    eliminated a very large number of positions in the department.
    That streamlining yielded much more efficient operations and
    Tennessee began to thrive after we went through that
    reorganization.
        But one aspect of that was the elimination and streamlining
    of the division that administered the CDBG grants and we were
    later forced by HUD to reinstate those positions. So rather
    than look at Tennessee and say, look, this is an opportunity to
    congratulate greater efficiency in streamlining maybe use that
    as what we call the best observed practice across other States
    and bring more efficiency to bear.
        Something is wrong at HUD whether it is regulatory or
    whether it is just, you know, a governance demeanor there that
    does not aim at these sorts of opportunities. You have had
    experience certainly in the State legislative level and at the
    White House I would love to hear your thoughts on how we might
    get at greater efficiency there and I know we would all like to
    work with you here in this Committee to support that.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator.
        And, you know, efficiency is key. Efficiency, transparency,
    accountability, and if confirmed you and your colleagues on the
    Committee I do commit to going into HUD and taking an
    inventory, taking an assessment of all the processes, all of
    the programs to see what is duplicative, what is working, what
    is not working and streamlining those things so that we can be
    more efficient because our number one job is to serve the
    American people that are the most vulnerable--low income,
    moderate income, people in our country as it pertains to
    housing, homelessness, disaster recovery and those three areas
    are of utmost important to the mission. So efficiency is the
    key so that we can better do that. I commit to you to do that.
        Senator Hagerty. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Turner.
        Mr. Chair.
        Senator Rounds [presiding]. On behalf of the Chairman,
    Senator Smith.
        Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member, and
    it is great to be back in the Committee and welcome, Mr.
    Turner, to the Committee.
        Yesterday you and I had an opportunity to talk about some
    of the issues that I want to raise again with you here today in
    the Committee, particularly what we can do to lower cost--lower
    housing costs for Americans and I wonder if you could just talk
    a bit about what you see--what are your top one or two things
    that you are going to get after when you get into HUD to help
    lower costs for housing for Americans?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Smith. It is good to see you
    again.
        And as we have said before with your colleagues, you know,
    regulatory reform is a big deal and to bring down the costs by
    getting our fiscal house in order, bringing interest rates
    down, bringing inflation down, bringing the cost of materials
    down is something that will help developers and builders across
    our country to bring affordability down and build more houses.
        And so things will have immediate impact and I look forward
    if confirmed by the Committee to working toward that.
        Senator Smith. So, Mr. Turner, I appreciate that and, you
    know, I am looking for some detail and some specifics about how
    you would get after this and how you want to accomplish this. I
    think HUD is a big and complicated agency and I am interested
    in hearing what your--sort of your vision and your plan is.
        So let us dive in on something specific that I know many of
    my colleagues have done a lot of thinking about which is what
    we need to do to increase housing supply. I think you and I
    agree that the United States needs to add many more homes
    across the whole spectrum and we need to increase the supply.
    That is going to help lower rent. As Elizabeth says, it is
    basic supply and demand.
        So I want to ask you based on your work as a developer can
    you describe some of the local regulations that you see
    hindering the development in construction of housing?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am.
        Thank you for that. Permitting fees, inspection fees,
    zoning difficulties on a local level. Every locality is unique
    in their needs. But these are some of the things that we see as
    developers and builders that are hindering developers from
    building affordable and workforce housing and regulatory
    reform, Senator, just in multifamily alone, you look at the
    regulations that it is it is almost 40 percent of the cost to
    build multifamily and I believe it is 20 or 25 percent of the
    cost in single family.
        And so these and for instance there is a new regulation for
    HVAC refrigerant from the EPA.
        Senator Smith. So let me ask--I am sorry to interrupt you.
        Mr. Turner. That is OK.
        Senator Smith. So I am short on time here. I heard you
    referring specifically to local zoning laws and how local
    zoning laws, for example, require parking minimums and height
    restrictions and setback rules and lot minimum--you know, lot
    size requirements can be an issue.
        Do you think that the Federal Government has a role in
    encouraging States and local governments to reduce some of
    these kinds of unnecessary regulations and barriers that can
    make it harder to build construction either multifamily or
    single family housing?
        Mr. Turner. Yeah, and I believe, you know, the localities
    know their areas better than the Federal Government does. As I
    said, every locality has unique needs when it comes to density,
    when it comes to height restrictions.
        And so, yes, I do encourage localities to look at their
    zoning laws to make it easier and more flexible to build. As we
    know, we have an affordable housing crisis across our country
    and so localities, obviously, are in the lead of that. We can
    encourage them to look at those zoning laws.
        Senator Smith. But you--so you could encourage that. There
    is a way that you----
        Mr. Turner. Yeah, we encourage that but I do not believe
    that we need to force or mandate it but, yes, encourage them to
    look at what they have so that we can build more affordable
    housing.
        Senator Smith. So having some--like, for example, we talked
    yesterday about the PRO housing program which provides
    incentives to local governments to make these kinds of reforms
    to make it easier for companies like the one that you once
    worked for, for example, to get after some of those zoning
    restrictions.
        This is a matter that is near and dear to my heart because
    my hometown of Minneapolis has done excellent work here and it
    has helped to by reforming zoning laws it has helped to boost
    the supply of housing.
        In just the couple of minutes that I have left I know--I
    want to just get at one other thing. Many of us here care a lot
    about the tragedy of veterans' homelessness. I know that this
    is an issue that is of importance to you as well and I want to
    ask you about a bill that I have worked on, the Housing for All
    Veterans Act, which would essentially guarantee that if you are
    eligible for a housing voucher as a veteran that you shouldn't
    have to be forced to wait in line, that you should be able to
    move right ahead and have that voucher and be able to get into
    housing. This is a highly successful program. We just do not
    have enough vouchers for all the veterans that need it.
        Mr. Turner, would you commit to working with me on this
    piece of legislation which would do a lot to end veterans'
    homelessness?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Smith.
        I commit to working with you to help our veterans, to help
    all homelessness in our country, and thank you for bringing it
    up. Thank you for your passion as I saw that when we were
    meeting and even here in the meeting. So yes, I look forward to
    working with you on this issue so we can help our Nation's
    veterans.
        Senator Smith. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you,
    Madam--Ranking Member.
        Senator Rounds. And on behalf of the Chairman, Senator
    Britt?
        Senator Britt. Thank you, and congratulations to the Chair
    and Ranking Member. Certainly look forward to the opportunity
    to work with you both on our shared goals and be able to
    advance this for the American people.
        Mr. Turner, thank you for your willingness to serve at the
    highest level. To your family, welcome. I know that you all
    have got to be so proud. This is a special day not only for all
    of you but for Americans, Americans who want that hope again of
    the American Dream and believe that you leadership will help
    lead them back to that. So thank you.
        There is, obviously, been a lot of talk about football this
    morning so on behalf of my family I need to say go Pats.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Britt. But would like to just say, obviously, your
    time in NFL having seen what that takes firsthand with my
    husband in that job it is a grind. You know how to set goals.
    You know how to push through adversity. You know how to
    literally grind it out.
        You also know as the Chairman said to never give up and
    that anything is possible. You also know what it means to be a
    part of a team which is exactly what we need.
        We cannot keep doing the same thing or highlighting what is
    supposed to be a star. It is got to be who is the best to put
    on the field to achieve the goal and achieve an win and I look
    forward to seeing you do that at HUD.
        So I have enjoyed our conversation in my office learning
    about your experience in housing, learning more about what you
    did in the last Administration bringing Opportunity Zones to
    life. I thank you for your commitment to visit the State of
    Alabama. We look forward to having you and certainly are proud
    of your past trips there and the work that you have done
    alongside so many tremendous Alabamians.
        Look, we all know that we are facing a serious problem when
    it comes to affordable housing in this country. Whether it is
    inflation, whether it is high construction costs, whether it is
    interest rates, whether--I mean, you name it. Low inventory. We
    got a lot of things that we have got to tackle in order to be
    able to fix this.
        And unfortunately, over the last 4 years of the Biden-
    Harris administration these things have not gotten better. They
    have gotten worse. And so you are going to inherit a tremendous
    problem but one that is critically important for people to be
    able to have their piece of the American dream and for so many
    to be able to have hope.
        I am thrilled about the Trump administration coming in. You
    being at the helm getting focus back on solutions and getting
    real results rather than prioritizing over burdensome
    regulations or mandates or harmful price controls that
    ultimately only add fuel to the fire.
        Mr. Turner, I was encouraged to hear you say earlier that
    two of your top priorities are deregulation and also
    streamlining HUD programs and streamlining them for efficiency.
    We want them to work better and faster for the American people.
    I share these goals.
        I mean, when you look--it is been highlighted today but
    when you look over the last year homelessness jumping 18
    percent in the last 12 months, 33 percent since 2020 it is
    absolutely unacceptable. You look at the fact that a new cost
    of a home has now risen 30 percent since 2020, the cost of it,
    and 24 percent of that is directly attributed to regulation.
        I know that you agree that that is unacceptable and it is
    clear that over burdensome regulation is part of this. Look, I
    want to just talk to you a little bit about your intention here
    to assess and measure the effectiveness of current HUD
    programs.
        Tell me what approach you are going to take there and how
    you are going to see what is working for the American people,
    what is not, and what is your plan in executing that?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Britt. It is great to see
    you, and please tell your husband I said hello.
        Senator Britt. Will do.
        Mr. Turner. So glad to see you all doing well.
        So number one, and I have used this word before. You know,
    inventory is and taking an assessment is key. You have to know
    what is working and what is not working. My father used to work
    at a grocery store called Safeway in Dallas and they used to
    take all the stuff off the shelves late at night or early in
    the morning.
        I said, Dad, what are you all doing. He said, well, we are
    taking inventory to see what is causing us to gain and what is
    causing us to lose, and I think that same principle in my own
    life, my business, foundation, ministry, taking inventory of
    the programs at HUD is one of the first priorities we will
    take.
        What is working for the American people, what is not. Is it
    building more affordable housing or is it not? Is it helping
    the homelessness in our country or is it not? Is it meeting the
    needs of the Americans that we serve or is it not and I think
    if we go from there to come back to you, this Committee and
    Congress, and say hey, this is what we have found. This is what
    works and this is what is not working, and this is what is
    efficient and this is what is duplicative.
        And so I think those simple principles would do very well,
    going forward, at HUD.
        Senator Britt. Excellent, and I look forward to working
    with you on that and your commitment to making sure that we get
    this right.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Senator Rounds. On behalf of the Chairman, Senator Reed?
        Senator Reed. Thank you, Senator Rounds.
        Welcome, Mr. Turner, very much. I want to welcome your
    family, too.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Reed. No one serves alone and you are going to be
    supported by these wonderful people.
        We have a severe supply problem in housing and that is why
    I am a little bit surprised that in the President-elect's last
    budget he wanted to zero out the HOME program and the housing
    trust fund. These are programs whose sole purpose is to
    construct housing and so what will we get by elimination these
    programs if our need is to invest more in construction?
        Mr. Turner. Well, thank you, Senator Reed. So good to see
    you and thank you for your time yesterday.
        As I have said before, Senator Reed, to your colleagues it
    is my goal to look at the housing trust fund and all the
    programs at HUD and to see how they are helping us to better do
    the job and carry out the mission at HUD as a whole.
        Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much.
        Let me also talk about another program and that is the
    family self-sufficiency program, one that I am working closely
    with Senator Britt to try to expand. I actually talked about
    this is a very good program. It allows families in subsidized
    housing to put money aside to eventually move on and we hope to
    buy their own homes.
        Will you help us expand FSS as you are in the position as
    the HUD secretary?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator.
        And if confirmed by your Committee any program that is
    helping people on the road to self-sufficiency and climb the
    economic ladder and become--to thrive economically I am willing
    to look at work with you and this Committee on and thank you
    for your passion for that and your diligence in that because my
    goal, too, is to help people to get off of Government
    assistance and to be self-sustainable and achieve the American
    dream.
        Senator Reed. Thank you.
        Let me follow on a point that Senator Tina Smith made, that
    is, you know, we have problems with veterans' housing and we
    have to do much more. But remarkably we have made more progress
    with veterans' housing than any other population.
        From 2007 to 2024 veterans' homelessness has dropped 50
    percent and that is because it is not just HUD, it is also VA
    with vouchers. It is also building.
        So can you look at the model that is been successful and
    see how you can incorporate more to affect other populations
    besides veterans?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. We said earlier, you know, when you
    bring out this to the table and you have data-driven results-
    driven programs I am willing to look at all of those to see how
    we could better serve not only our veterans but the whole
    entire mission of HUD.
        And so I look forward to working with you and your team and
    Members on that.
        Senator Reed. And I know you have talked about and we had a
    good chance to talk about it in the office about streamlining
    regulations, zoning. That is a responsibility primarily of
    States and localities but HUD I think can play a critical role
    and I hope you will follow up aggressively to--in that critical
    role.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. Thank you.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
        Now, I do not know if you can say anything but are you
    thinking Go Commanders?
        Mr. Turner. Anything Commanders or Redskins I am for it.
        Senator Reed. All right. We can agree on that.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, we can.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Turner. And thank you for that great quote you gave me
    in the office. It is not about the best ideas or who asked the
    best questions. I remember that. Thank you.
        Senator Reed. Thank you.
        The other one is be kind and no surprises.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
        Senator Rounds. On behalf of the Chairman Senator Banks,
    and welcome to the Committee.
        Senator Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And thank you, Mr. Turner, for agreeing to serve your
    country in a big way. Excited to work with you.
        Each year HUD distributes tens of billions of dollars of
    housing assistance to families in poverty through programs like
    the housing choice voucher program in Section 8.
        Unfortunately these programs punish people for working and
    for getting married, and I wonder what can you do about that
    when you are in charge? What can we do to change those rules?
        Mr. Turner. Well, thank you, Senator Banks, and it was good
    to meet with you as well.
        You know, these programs when you do get married when you
    do get a better job, when your wages do rise, you know, you are
    disadvantaged and you are penalized for it.
        And so, you know, the whole goal here is to get people into
    self-sustainability and on track to achieve and American dream
    to thrive and not just surviving, to be not a lifetime on
    subsidies but to get off subsidies and be able to take care of
    your family.
        And so we will commit to taking a deep dive and looking,
    you know, into these and how it disadvantages people that are
    on assistance. So thank you for bringing that to the forefront
    and I look forward to further discussion on that.
        Senator Banks. The Biden administration's so-called fair
    housing rule requires States and local governments that receive
    community development block grants to submit detailed reports
    to HUD on how they will advance equity--so-called equity--
    across all of their activities.
        Do you think HUD should be holding grant applicants hostage
    to a DEI agenda?
        Mr. Turner. You know, I do not think we should be holding
    grant applicants hostage to anything and particularly something
    that is devastating to not only the individuals but also the
    families. And so you know, I believe that when we give or grant
    assistance that obviously there is accountability, there is
    transparency. But to hold anyone hostage because of a
    politicization of an agency or a process I think is wrong
    across the board.
        Senator Banks. So you agree to look into how we interpret
    that rule and perhaps apply it differently?
        Mr. Turner. Absolutely.
        Senator Banks. Very good. In 2016, the Obama administration
    declared that it is ``unlawful discrimination for realtors and
    landlords to discuss a neighborhood's crime rate with
    prospective renters and buyers.'' And I wonder--I mean, it
    seems ridiculous to me--I do not know if you agree--to try to
    hide crime from a renter or a home buyer when they sign a lease
    or buy a home.
        How do you plan to interpret that rule?
        Mr. Turner. Well, I think when--if I am buying a home or if
    I am renting a home I want to know about the crime rate. I want
    to know if my wife and my family are going to be safe.
        I think full transparency and accountability is key and
    then you make the decision whether you want to live here or
    not. But to hide crime, to hide anything from a potential buyer
    or a potential renter is wrong.
        So yes, I look forward to learning more. Thank you for
    bringing it to my attention. But I do not believe--that is
    wrong. And so we will look into that because I think you have
    to be fully transparent to all renters and all buyers.
        Senator Banks. Totally agree. The Federal Government has
    been relying on religious organizations for years to deliver
    services through grants but under the current far left rules at
    HUD a faith-based soup kitchen or a homeless shelter would
    jeopardize its eligibility for Federal grants if an employee
    offered to pray before a meal.
        Would you remove those types of barriers that are
    preventing faith-based organizations from helping people?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. You know, as a Christian
    myself and as a believer, you know, I like to pray before my
    meals. I like to pray for people. I like to pray as a group,
    pray individually, and I think it is something we need to
    embrace. You know, people of all faiths in our country.
        And so any barriers that keep people from faith--of
    exercising that, yes we need to take a deep look at that
    because, you know, this is a country where we have religious
    freedom. We need to uphold that the best we can.
        Senator Banks. The Biden administration finalized a rule
    last year that imposes extreme climate standards on any
    property that HUD finances. These standards will drive up
    construction costs by as much as $30,000 and they apply even if
    HUD only contributes a tiny amount of the funding. I wonder
    what your point of view is on that and is there anything we can
    do to fix that.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. You know, I do want to look
    further into that. You know, anything that is burdensome to
    build affordable housing we need to take a strong look at that
    and remove be it climate, whatever it is--regulatory reform--
    because we have a crisis.
        And as I sit here before you I am focused on how do we
    build affordable housing in our country and whatever is keeping
    us from doing that obviously in appropriate legal manner we
    need to look at those across the board because we have people
    that are on the streets that we need to help them in housing.
        Senator Banks. Thank you. My time has expired.
        Chair Scott [presiding]. Good use of your time, however.
        Senator Kim.
        Senator Kim. Yeah. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
    Member. I am glad to be a part of this.
        Mr. Turner, I appreciated the conversation that you and I
    had before and I am glad we have a chance to be able to chat
    again.
        After our last conversation I went back to some folks--some
    constituents in New Jersey, asked them what are the top issues.
    You know, what are the things that they want to raise and just
    overwhelmingly not just for this hearing but just writ large is
    about housing, high cost.
        So I guess I just want to ask a little bit more. You know,
    I look at your testimony here as a country we are not building
    enough housing. We need more, millions more homes of all kinds.
    I think everyone agrees with that. But I would like a little
    bit more specificity from you. In particular, I heard from a
    young man says--you know, graduated college. He says he does
    not think he will ever be able to afford a house.
        Like, the level of pessimism especially among youth right
    now is so high. and so I guess I just wanted to have something
    tangible to bring back to him. You know, like, what would you
    say to that young man? What plan, what specifics can you bring
    beyond, you know, these statements that we all agree upon but I
    would like to just have a sense of something more granular.
        Mr. Turner. Absolutely, and I also have heard that from my
    own son. He is 24. How we are going to be able to afford a
    house? Kids that we mentor in Dallas have the same sentiments.
    So I understand.
        First, as I have said before, Senator Kim, and it was great
    to meet with you--we have to get our fiscal house in this
    country in order bringing down inflation, bringing down
    interest rates, because that will then bring down the cost to
    build affordable housing. And, obviously, working with you,
    this Committee, and Congress we can look at how we get our
    fiscal house in order.
        Deregulation--we have talked about that a lot here both at
    the Federal and the local State level will help us to build
    more affordable housing and those things I think that when we
    do that and prices do come down and housing is built that those
    that are in this younger generation will begin to have hope
    again because right now there is a lot of hopelessness in the
    younger generation about how they will afford a home.
        So it is my goal because it is personal to me.
        Senator Kim. Well, I guess--let me just expand a little bit
    more here. You know, you said we need millions more homes of
    all kinds--single family, apartments, condos. I guess I want to
    just ask how do we encourage the building of entry level homes?
    You know, we see, you know, in New Jersey a lot of development
    of luxury condos, large homes, but, you know, it is hard
    sometimes with the market, you know, to try to figure out how
    they are going to be able to go off of that.
        So I am wondering what are your thoughts there. Are there
    ways in which incentives to be able to build that type of
    housing has a place in this--in the toolbox.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. And I think the expansion of
    Opportunity Zones will play a great role in that, because we
    saw a lot of affordable housing, first-time housing built,
    multifamily, duplex, single family, manufactured homes built in
    Opportunity Zones. And so I think the expansion and the
    continuation of that initiative and program will give us a
    great advantage to meet that need.
        Senator Kim. I mean, I think that is right but I think we
    also saw sort of, you know, and over emphasis upon commercial
    building when it came to Opportunity Zones. I think there was
    some challenge in terms of being able to direct that toward
    affordable housing. So that is something that, you know, I
    think we should look at as we go forward.
        Another thing that I wanted to raise here, the community
    development block grant for disaster recovery, this is
    something where, you know, you and I had a conversation about,
    you know, different disaster issues that we have struggled with
    in New Jersey. It is not formally authorized, and as a result
    it oftentimes gets bogged down and be a very slow process.
        So I want to just ask, you know, is that something you have
    looked at in terms of whether or not you would support
    permanent authorization of that program?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator.
        Yes, that is something I began to study. You know, every
    time a disaster happens--and after a disaster happens it is
    almost like HUD has to reinvent the wheel so statutory
    authority will be very helpful to get these resources and funds
    out the door in an efficient manner to serve the people that
    are in need.
        Senator Kim. OK. Well, please, that is something I would
    like to work with you on. We have seen in the past, especially
    when it came to response in Puerto Rico after the Hurricane
    Maria, you know, huge delays and a lot of structural problems
    here where the intent of Congress was not followed through on
    and that is something I would like to be able to work with you
    on.
        The last thing I will just say and this will be quick, you
    know, I really hope that we can be the generation that finally
    rids our homes of lead in all forms once and for all--lead
    pipes, lead paint. A lot there that we can do when it comes to
    these work? Is that something that you can agree upon? Is that
    something we can try to set out as a joint goal?
        Mr. Turner. Absolutely.
        Senator Kim. Thank you. I yield back.
        Chairman Scott. Excellent.
        Senator Kennedy.
        Senator Kennedy. I think it is Senator Moreno.
        Chairman Scott. Yes, it is. I was really seeing if you were
    paying attention and you passed my test.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. Good job, youngster.
        Senator Kennedy. I am watching you like a hawk.
        Senator Moreno. Well, first, thanks to my colleague,
    Senator Kennedy.
        Mr. Scott, thank you for being here. Thank you for your
    willingness to serve this country. Your background in
    incredibly impressive. I think we add you to the long line of
    incredibly qualified nominees for President Trump and I am
    hoping we get all of you confirmed quickly, efficiently so you
    can get to work and there is a lot of work to be done.
        I will say as a newbie here in Washington, DC, this place
    actually fascinates me. It is really unbelievable. Five years
    ago if you made $60,000-plus thousand in this country you could
    afford a home. Today it is more than twice that.
        And you look at--if you had supply and demand for dummies
    you would open up to page 1 it said well, if you have 12
    million illegals into a country in a period of time that
    require housing perhaps housing prices will go up and yet there
    is incredible denial about that fact.
        How do you think illegal migration which has been
    completely insane over the last 4 years has played into housing
    affordability?
        Mr. Turner. Well, thank you, Senator Moreno, and
    congratulations to you. It was great to spend time with you.
        In the HUD report that came out on December 27th it noted
    that illegal migration or illegal immigration has caused a lot
    of the homelessness in our country. When you have 12 to 20
    million people coming across illegally to our country it is
    going to be a great burden on the economy, on housing, on
    homelessness, on health in our country.
        And so as the report said it is a huge burden and that is
    something that I think that we as a country, as you, Congress,
    as the White House have to work to eliminate so that we can
    take care of the American people.
        Senator Moreno. Yeah. So basically the Government allowed
    12 million people to come into the country illegally over the
    last 4 years. They have unleashed fiscal stimulus unlike at any
    point in our history, trillions of dollars of fiscal stimulus
    that led to higher interest rates.
        Then you look at the regulations that led to higher housing
    costs and yet we convene to figure out how to lower housing
    costs. It is pretty remarkable process to watch as somebody who
    is from the outside. Is there anything else that you have seen
    that you would like to do that are priorities to lower the cost
    of housing? Because like Senator Kim said, this is the issue I
    hear over and over again, whether it is that 20-something that
    wants to not live in their parents' basement or the parent that
    does not want to have that 20-something living in their
    basement.
        They both agree. But the reality is it is really expensive
    to own a home in this country. Very differently than when
    President Trump was back in the White House. Is there anything
    else that you think we could be doing in that regard?
        Mr. Turner. Well, you know, so far we talk about regulatory
    reform. We talk about bringing down the cost of materials, the
    cost of construction, the expansion of Opportunity Zones, and I
    think engaging the private sector and bringing the private
    sector in because, you know, the people that do this on a daily
    basis Government can be a great partner.
        Obviously, the Government is not the only solution. So to
    bring the private sector in to help with these solutions that
    is something that I want to do if confirmed by this Committee
    is listen--you know, listen to those that are in the
    localities. Listen to those that are in the private sector that
    have done--been successful in building affordable housing and
    workforce housing. I think that would be a great advantage for
    us.
        Senator Moreno. Well, thank you. I have one request for
    you. As you know, we need a lot of help in Cleveland. We have
    affordable housing, quote/unquote, HUD subsidized housing. I
    was just in a homeland security meeting talking about illegal
    migration and the need for on the other side they think the
    solution is to provide better housing to illegals at our
    border.
        There are housing projects in Cleveland that if we put
    illegals in those projects we would be sanctioned by the United
    Nations for human rights violations. I would like you to see
    those first hand. These are conditions that no human let alone
    an American citizen should ever be allowed to live in and yet
    it is gone on and, quite frankly, as you know a lot of people
    make a lot of money as a result of those kinds of conditions. I
    would love to have you come to Cleveland to see that first
    hand.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir. Thank you.
        Senator Moreno. Thank you. I yield the rest of my time to
    my colleague from Louisiana.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you. Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Actually, can I--I will
    take a pass.
        Chairman Scott. Certainly. OK. We will come back to you.
        Senator Cortez Masto. I am running between three committee
    hearings right now. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. Senator Gallego.
        Senator Gallego. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        And Mr. Turner, it was great meeting you in your office. As
    you know, Arizona is at the forefront of housing scarcity on
    all fronts, whether it is apartments, whether it is housing,
    whether it is new, old, and it is not just the metro. It is
    even our rural areas.
        So, you know, I am always looking out for the comprehensive
    solution as well, of course, dealing with the rising
    homelessness which are all kind of attached to this.
        So we talked about a couple of areas in my office and I
    just want to reiterate, you know, for--especially for number
    one our families right now that cannot afford housing.
        Last year I introduced the Housing Vouchers Fairness Act to
    address the increased demand for affordable housing choice
    vouchers in our fastest growing cities and for my colleagues
    here what that basically means is there are some areas of this
    country that are not using their housing vouchers largely
    because of bad administrative process or the fact that you guys
    are losing population.
        Places like Arizona, Nevada, Texas, and Florida have a
    demand for these housing vouchers. And, you know, as I said
    before it is the HUD--HUD has the right to actually reallocate
    those vouchers if they are not being used.
        So I just want to have a commitment that you are going to
    look at that because that would actually help a lot of people
    off the streets and into housing and especially, again, if they
    are not being used by anywhere else they should be effectively
    used somewhere.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, Senator, and it was great to visit
    with you and hear your care and your passion for your State and
    constituents.
        Yes, I do commit to working with you and looking further
    into that as we said in our meeting.
        Senator Gallego. Thank you. And, you know, one of the
    things that we see in Arizona and all over the country is that
    we have a lot of families in different situations, but we do
    see mixed status families.
        And I agree with a lot of my colleagues here. If you are an
    illegal immigrant, you shouldn't be receiving any subsidized
    housing. If you are two illegal immigrants living together, you
    should not receive any Federal subsidized housing.
        But I am concerned about mixed status families and that
    happens a lot in our world where you have one parent who is an
    American and who--or who is illegally here or has a child that
    is an American.
        In the past under HUD director--HUD Secretary Carson there
    is been some rulemaking that would have potentially put those
    types of families on the streets, and when we already have a
    housing shortage that we are hearing and the other thing to
    remember in terms of these mixed status families a lot of times
    that parent, the secondary parent, may actually at one point
    become a legal citizen I would like to make sure that you at
    least understand and do not rush to kick more people out of
    their homes because you are likely kicking out a couple
    Americans in the process.
        And, again, overall agree with the sentiment we should not
    be using our Federal dollars or in general tax dollars to house
    illegal immigrants but when it comes to our potential, you
    know, making some of our American families homeless we have to
    be very careful about how we execute that. I want to make sure
    you understand that and work through that in the process also.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Gallego. And then so, you know, when it comes to
    that, you know, if you understand the mixed status family
    situation American kid, American parent, undocumented, would
    you say that that is something that would be a reason to evict
    these families from Federal housing?
        Mr. Turner. Well, Senator, one thing, if confirmed by this
    Committee as the Secretary of HUD, you know, we have to take
    care of American citizens and American families. It is not only
    the right thing to do, it is not just what we are called to do
    but it is the law, even right now we are not serving the amount
    of American people and American families that we have been
    called to serve.
        And so as the HUD secretary if confirmed by you and this
    Committee my job will be to uphold the laws on the books, and I
    know oftentimes you have to make hard decisions because we do
    not like to tear up families but we have an obligation to serve
    the American people and uphold the laws on the books.
        Senator Gallego. And recognizing these are American people.
    They are just in a situation where they are married to someone
    who is undocumented and so this is why I am asking specifically
    to make sure that you understand that there is a nuance and all
    we are going to do is create more Americans actually that are
    going to be homeless if we rush to just evictions.
        Other areas I would definitely like to talk to you about is
    in regards to the Native American housing block grants. You
    know, the President and his previous Administration had a lot
    of--had tried to demand some cuts to that and it provides
    grants to Tribes and Tribal housing entities to support housing
    and community development.
        And so Arizona has got 22 federally recognized Tribes. It
    is a massive portion of our population. But they actually have
    a housing crisis. So whenever there is cuts that are made or
    proposed cuts that are made it is going to significantly impact
    these communities because a lot of these communities also do
    not have access to other private funds in order for them to
    buildup their housing.
        So I really want to know do you support the President's
    proposals to cut funding for HUD assistant housing for Native
    Americans, going forward? In the past we cannot really do much
    going there.
        Mr. Turner. You know, I would have to look into that
    program and that proposal. Thank you for bringing that to my
    attention.
        As we talked about before, you know, Native American Tribes
    have the same difficulty in affordable housing because of the
    Tribal Trust and other factors.
        As we talked before also Opportunity Zones are a great
    vehicle to affordable housing including on our Tribes and so I
    am committed to seeing how we can continue to build more
    affordable housing for our Tribes and across the country and I
    look forward to working with you on that particular issue. And
    as far as the proposal I have to go and look, take a deeper
    dive into that.
        Senator Moreno. I yield back.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you.
        Senator Kennedy.
        Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Turner, you have a very impressive resume and career.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you sir.
        Senator Kennedy. And I have enjoyed your testimony today.
        You will find that we in Washington we never make the same
    mistake twice. We make it three or four times to make sure that
    we get it right.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Kennedy. Now, I have been here 8 years. I have
    watched us on a bipartisan basis spend tens and tens and tens
    and tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars on affordable
    housing. And the result is that 10 years ago the average age of
    a first-time homebuyer in America was 28. Today it is 38. We
    are going backwards here.
        A house that cost 4 years ago $304,000--a lot of money--
    cost $423,000 today. Washington thinks it can command the tides
    of the housing market and we cannot. State and local government
    have a lot more influence than we do, much more, and I have
    watched us give State and local government billions and they
    gladly take the money and nothing changes, because a lot of
    folks, their home is the biggest investment and they do not
    want an affordable housing nearby and some of them do not want
    any new housing nearby because of the pressure it puts on
    infrastructure.
        If we are serious about increasing housing starts in
    America, and I doubt this will happen because I do not think we
    in Washington have the will to do it, but we would turn to
    every State and say, look, we expect you to increase housing
    starts every year by 3 percent. Could be two, could be four.
    Three percent. How you do it is your business. If you do not do
    it we are going to cut by 1.5 percent all Federal aid that we
    give to you across the board. If you exceed the 3 percent we
    will give you an extra 1.5 percent. Canada is in the process of
    looking at this.
        Now you will see many in State and local governments have
    an epiphany and they will get started looking at their zoning
    standards, looking at the set asides and the setbacks and have
    an honest conversation with their people. What do you think?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Kennedy. Sir, I appreciate
    our time together and thank you for your thoughtfulness and
    your ingenuity and thought.
        You know, incentives do a lot. I know playing in the NFL
    you always wanted to get incentives in your contract.
        Senator Kennedy. So does a stick.
        Mr. Turner. Yes.
        Senator Kennedy. A stick does a lot.
        Mr. Turner. It does. You know, the incentives we had back
    in the day were a lot less than incentives I see these players
    getting now.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Turner. But, anyway, I think that returning that
    control back and encouraging innovativeness and encouraging
    that accountability back to the States I think is a great idea,
    and I want to hear more about that with you.
        But I do believe that when we incentivize growth we
    incentivize building, we incentivize, you know, certain aspects
    when it comes to affordability, you know, competition always
    brings out the best. And so I look forward to hearing more and
    working with you on that.
        Senator Kennedy. This isn't a question. Let me just give
    you an observation. You undoubtedly know this. One of the
    headwinds you are going to face now is the cost of insurance. I
    am not talking just about flood. It is bad enough. I am talking
    about extended coverage. Under our Chairman's leadership,
    Senator Rounds and I are working on a bill not just dealing
    with flood, but dealing with all casualties.
        We are going to have to face it. It is coming. We have all
    seen what is happening in California, but it is not just
    California. It is Appalachia. It is Florida. It is Louisiana.
    And we are going to have to address this.
        I am not talking about Government subsidies. I am talking
    about setting up some sort of a national program that invites
    as many people as possible to join so you can spread the risk.
    Strict underwriting, so that the premiums are not subsidized.
    And I hate to see the Federal Government get in the insurance
    business, but my God, it is looks like we are going to have to.
    And I am way over but I used that extra time that Bernie gave
    me.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. Thank you, Senator. And 17 additional
    seconds. You are right at your time. Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Turner, it is good to see you again. Thanks for meeting
    with me.
        Mr. Turner. Great to see you, ma'am.
        Senator Cortez Masto. And welcome to your family.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Let me--I know some of this
    conversation you already had with my colleagues but I am going
    to rehash some of it because particularly around housing and
    affordable housing it is a number one issue in my State as it
    is happening an issue for across the country but in Nevada this
    is something that we have been dealing with.
        We are a little bit unique in the sense that over 80
    percent of our land is owned by the Federal Government so we
    need support and work with the Federal Government to identify
    land where housing can be built, right, and that is where not
    only the department of interior but that is where HUD comes in,
    BLM and HUD working together.
        So I will be looking at you to work with us there on those
    issues. but let me ask you this. I appreciate my colleague
    Senator Kennedy's comments about Federal funding, and if he
    wants to transfer Federal funding to places where there has
    been effective use of it he can send it to Nevada. There is
    more that needs to be done but the Federal financing is a key
    part of financing housing and affordable housing in Nevada.
        Let me just give you an example. We have the Patriot Place
    Apartments in Las Vegas. It is home to 50 formerly homeless
    veterans, and these homes were built thanks to HUD's home
    investment partnerships program and vouchers among other
    programs.
        We have similar housing that is being built for our
    veterans, for our seniors, along with our working class, the
    men and women who are working in part of our key industries in
    Nevada.
        And so unfortunately for us we have done all this great
    work. We need to continue it. But in the last Trump
    administration Trump wanted to delay, cut, and eliminate HUD
    programs that build affordable housing.
        So my question to you is would you support that position
    even though we know the benefits it can provide for people in
    need?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto. It was great
    to meet with you and visit with you about your beloved State of
    Nevada.
        As we said before with your other colleagues here, you
    know, my goal as I said before is to look at all the programs
    within HUD and see what is successful and what is not
    successful and also I will commit to you to having those
    conversations if I am allowed in due time with the President
    and his team and also you and Congress to say hey, these
    programs are really working and they are bringing results as it
    pertains to building affordable housing. I think as a leader
    that is my job to have those conversations and to take
    inventory and see, hey, these programs are successful, they are
    meeting the needs of the mission of HUD.
        And so I can--I will work with you if you will and look
    further into that program and see how we can help our veterans
    and the homelessness need and the housing affordability need in
    your State.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        And do you have a position on just housing vouchers in
    general?
        Mr. Turner. You know, I have been learning a lot about
    housing vouchers and one thing I do know is that we need to
    make it less cumbersome and more efficient in the process and
    make it easier for land owners and landlords to work with us
    instead of putting a lot of bureaucracy and red tape and burden
    on them and I am continuing to look at that to see how we can
    ease it and streamline that program at HUD.
        Senator Cortez Masto. I appreciate that.
        Just and you wouldn't know this but under the previous
    Trump administration they wanted to try to cut the number of
    vouchers and so that does not benefit us.
        So I am hopeful as you are looking at things and you are
    looking at efficient use of these dollars and vouchers this is
    part of it and you are going to be talking to the
    Administration about it as well.
        Let me ask you this. This came up as well I think in our
    conversation about disaster relief. Starting in 2018 President
    Trump's Department of Housing and Urban Development withheld
    for 2 years congressionally approved disaster recovery and
    mitigation funds for Puerto Rico and now he is suggesting doing
    the same thing for California.
        In 2021 the inspector general found that HUD intentionally
    delayed sending Puerto Rico funds from the CDBG disaster
    recovery and mitigation program's fund.
        And so my question to you is if you are confirmed will you
    promise not to stop or delay the disbursement of
    congressionally approved disaster recovery funds?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator.
        And we all know the devastation that is going on in
    California right now and how it is devastating to families and
    communities. Also, Senator Tillis was talking about in North
    Carolina how CDBG-DR funds have not gotten out of the door.
        And so what I do commit to is when we look at this fund if
    confirmed by the Committee how do we get the resources out of
    the door to the families and communities that are in need so
    that they can rebuild because that is very important. That will
    be a top priority for me when it comes to disaster recovery
    funds that have been appropriated by Congress.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Scott. Yes, you are welcome.
        Senator Lummis, are you prepared now or let me come back to
    you?
        Senator Lummis. I am, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
        Senator Lummis. Congratulations to you and to the Ranking
    Member. Look forward to working with you these next couple of
    years.
        Thank you, Mr. Turner, for your willingness to serve this
    Nation as HUD secretary. I want to welcome--warmly welcome your
    family and appreciate the sacrifice you all make to serve our
    Nation in this way.
        And I want to thank you for meeting with me in my office
    recently. My first question is about Indian Country. I know for
    a lot of States' Tribal issues are really hard to attack
    because they are culturally challenging for those of us who are
    non-Indians.
        I am of the opinion that native CDFIs are important to
    fixing the housing crisis in Indian Country. They are a way for
    Tribes to attract capital that leave Tribal members in control
    and in Indian Country it is very important that Tribal members
    be in control.
        So last Congress we had a hearing in the Housing
    Subcommittee that I was involved with Senator Smith on about
    CDFIs and we heard from our witnesses that it is important that
    these institutions have flexibility in the products they can
    offer developers and home buyers, things like balloon loans and
    interest only loans when offered to borrowers that understand
    the risks and can make monthly payments more affordable.
        CDFIs need permission from the CDFI fund at Treasury to
    offer these products and keep their CDFI status. So will you
    work with Treasury, and I am happy to go hand in hand with you
    to Treasury, to ensure the flexibility Tribes and native CDFIs
    can offer so we can have solutions to the housing crisis in
    Indian Country?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Senator. It was great to
    visit with you.
        But yes, I will commit to working with you and I believe
    also Senator Warner was talking about CDFIs in his State. I do
    look forward to working with you and Treasury to make sure we
    are meeting the needs of the Tribal Nations.
        Senator Lummis. Thank you.
        I want to call your attention to a bill that I am
    sponsoring with Senator Fetterman. He used to be on this
    Committee and is no longer. Today we are reintroducing the
    Whole Home Repair Act and it will create a program that
    supports low income homeowners and small landlords trying to
    cut through red tape and apply for grants to repair dilapidated
    and unsafe housing.
        So the focus of a lot of the hearings that Senator Smith,
    when she chaired the Housing Subcommittee, and I worked on were
    rural housing needs and I assume you have seen that in your
    home State as well.
        Mr. Turner. You know, we do have a big need in rural areas
    around the country and I am from Texas so we do have a lot of
    rural areas. You know, oftentimes when people are thinking
    about home affordability and they think about poverty stricken
    areas it is urban. But our rural neighbors and rural friends
    have the same if not more need when it comes to home
    affordability.
        And so I do look forward, if confirmed by the Committee, to
    look at more on how we can serve our families and communities
    in the rural areas around the country.
        Senator Lummis. Will you help Senator Fetterman and I by
    providing technical assistance in this matter as it moves
    forward?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. I look forward to working with you
    both.
        Senator Lummis. Thank you, Mr. Turner.
        There is a program called Housing First and it is been the
    law of the land for two decades now and, yet, homelessness is a
    bigger problem than ever.
        So, clearly, Housing First does not work for everyone. Do
    you have some ideas that you can bring to us about how to
    tackle the homelessness question?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. And, you know, homelessness is
    something that is near and dear to me. Obviously, I gave the
    testimony about one of my family members who was found homeless
    and we were able to get him help, obviously.
        But housing is one part of it but I like to look at the
    person as holistic as I can. You know, you talk about housing,
    health care, fitness, education. And so I think the wraparound
    services are vital and key when it comes to eradicating and
    attacking homeless.
        And also involved in the local organizations that are doing
    this on a day to day basis like what I was involved in back at
    home who every day are meeting the needs of our homeless
    neighbors not only from a housing standpoint but from a mental
    health standpoint, from and education and health care
    standpoint.
        And so I look forwards to doing this if confirmed by the
    Committee.
        Senator Lummis. Boots on the ground, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you so much. My home State of Wyoming does not have
    any professional football teams but we do have our University
    of Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen quarterbacking the Buffalo
    Bills so, obviously, I am a Bills fan and looking forward to
    his progress this month.
        Thank you, Mr. Turner.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you.
        Senator Blunt Rochester.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank
    you to you and the Ranking Member for the warm welcome. I am
    looking forward to working with the Members on this Committee.
        Mr. Turner, I appreciate the opportunity to meet with you
    earlier this week and look forward to getting more clarity on
    some of your positions and plans.
        I want to start with housing supply, an issue that you have
    heard over and over again in this Committee, because we hear it
    over and over again in our States, whether it is rural areas
    like in Delaware, or in Delaware we have coastal areas. Whether
    it is our nurses or our teachers or unhoused, you know,
    neighbors who are trying to find housing. Or just young people,
    as Senator Kim mentioned, who are trying to get their first
    home.
        This is a crisis that is touching all of us. And you have
    publicly indicated that you recognize the growing need for high
    quality affordable housing in our country.
        The good news is, as you have heard, there is a lot of
    comment around here in terms of understanding that we have the
    challenge, bipartisan consensus, that reducing barriers at the
    local level will increase the supply of affordable housing,
    namely addressing zoning, land use issues, and cutting red
    tape.
        And this is something that I have worked on in the House
    from my bipartisan Housing Supply and Affordability Act, to my
    Housing Supply and Innovation Frameworks Act. And these polices
    have been endorsed by groups like across the spectrum, from Up
    for Growth to the National Low Income Housing Coalition.
        And in our meeting, you agreed that the Federal Government
    should share best practices in reducing barriers with
    localities. For the record, do you support legislation that
    would develop frameworks and best practices on zoning and land
    use policies to be used by local municipalities.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. It was great to meet with
    you, and thank you for your thoughtfulness and your service to
    our country.
        I am always, as a former legislator, I am always open to
    looking at the best possible legislation to meet the needs that
    we have, not only in our States, but in our country. And so as
    that legislation comes out, I definitely commit to looking and
    exploring that with you and your team to see if it will best
    benefit the mission of HUD.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. Thank you. You also have told us
    that you believe that a happy, healthy, and productive
    citizenry all starts with housing, and I completely agree. You
    have said--but there are a number of critical programs that
    will make our citizens safe, health, and affordable, get
    affordable housing.
        But the Trump administration in the first Administration
    made massive cuts to many of these. To start, will you commit
    to maintaining funding for the Housing Choice Voucher Program,
    which ensures millions of families have safe, healthy, and
    affordable housing?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. So what I do, and I have
    said before to you and your colleagues, I do commit to looking
    at all the programs that we have at HUD, and to make----
        Senator Blunt Rochester. That is a yes.
        Mr. Turner. I look forward to----
        Senator Blunt Rochester. To looking at it.
        Mr. Turner. To looking into them, yes, ma'am.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. OK.
        Mr. Turner. And maximizing the budget we have to make those
    programs better.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. One of the other areas that we
    talked about, I think I shared with you in our meeting that I
    served as the Secretary of Labor in the State of Delaware. I
    tell people if I had another middle name, it would be Lisa
    Blunt Jobs Rochester.
        So I am very much focused on jobs and the economy, but I
    ask you specifically your position on work requirements tied to
    people having housing opportunities in programs like Section 8.
    Could you share your position there?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am. You know, I heard a great quote,
    and it says that, you know, our social safety net programs----
        Senator Blunt Rochester. In the interest of time, can I
    just ask, do you support work requirements for a housing
    program?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am, I was getting to that.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. I only have a little bit of time.
        Mr. Turner. And so I think that, you know, it is good for
    people to work. And I think a great precedent was set----
        Senator Blunt Rochester. I do too. But do you support work
    requirements tied to housing opportunities for public----
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am, I think it is good. I think we
    should encourage people to work as they are on assistance.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. Your answer is yes. I just needed
    to get a answer.
        And then, last, I do agree with Senator Kennedy as well
    about the challenge of extreme weather, what we are seeing. And
    that it is making harder for people to even secure a mortgage
    for in most vulnerable areas. What role do you think HUD should
    play in addressing the insurance crisis?
        Mr. Turner. You know, when Senator Kennedy brought that up,
    you know, it came to my attention that this is getting ready to
    be a huge issue. And I look forward to working with you and
    your team and other experts in the interest, like our Chairman,
    to see what we can do when these insurance crisis come up to
    learn as much as I can.
        Senator Blunt Rochester. I look forward to working with you
    on that, and also further discussion on the work requirements
    piece, because the one thing we don't want to see money shifted
    to--that kicks people off, and then it is used for other
    things. We want to make sure that those who are most
    vulnerable--because it just exacerbates the problem, and we
    don't want to exacerbate the problem.
        And I will end with go Eagles.
        Mr. Turner. Boo. You had to get that in. I thought her time
    was up.
        [Laughter.]
        Chairman Scott. I thought so too, to be honest with you. I
    will concede that this at least is an NFC conversation we are
    having here. That is wonderful.
        Senator McCormick.
        Senator McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Turner, good to see you.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator McCormick. It was a pleasure to meet with you in my
    office. I am excited to welcome you to Pennsylvania to see
    firsthand the housing affordability problems we have there, and
    maybe you can come to Philadelphia and Pittsburgh on your way
    to Cleveland to see Senator Moreno.
        Especially in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, we have been hit
    hard. And these metro areas rank near the bottom nationally in
    new housing unit construction. And as such, you can--not
    surprisingly the rent is up significantly, home prices are up,
    and interest rates have more than doubled. So we have got a
    real problem here in our two biggest metropolitan areas.
        You and I talked about this when we sat down about how to
    make housing more affordable, and we both agreed, I think, that
    regulations at the Federal, State, and local level have
    significantly increased the time it takes for builders to get
    the approvals they need to get new projects built.
        And so if confirmed, how do you imagine that you will be
    able to help fix, change, evolve the regulatory agenda to break
    down some of these Federal barriers in particular, and to make
    it easier to build houses and get more supply in those areas?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator McCormick, and it was great
    to meet with you.
        Again, you know, I think that bringing in the localities,
    bringing in the private sector, listening, you know, to what
    the burdens are, listening to, you know, what the barriers are,
    and being a good partner and seeing how we can decrease
    regulation. Because on my mind and my heart in here today, we
    have a crisis in our country.
        And so whatever we must do together from a Federal
    standpoint, from a State standpoint, from a local standpoint to
    reduce those barriers I am willing to listen to and bring the
    best ideas to the table to build affordable housing for our
    country.
        Senator McCormick. Well, the crisis is across all of our
    populations, particularly problematic with our veterans.
        Mr. Turner. Yes.
        Senator McCormick. As you and I discussed. As a veteran
    with a commonwealth, a State that has the fourth largest
    veterans' population, it is just shameful that we have so many
    veterans that have both honorably served our country and they
    are homeless. So HUD's supportive housing program, in
    partnership with the VA is a great initiative.
        But in essence, not enough veterans are getting the housing
    benefits they need, or that they are even eligible for. So the
    question for you is how can HUD improve its collaboration with
    the VA--and I just met with the nominee for the VA Secretary
    yesterday--to ensure that the 720,000 veterans we have in
    Pennsylvania have access to this program?
        Mr. Turner. That is a great question. And I, too, had a
    great conversation with the nominee coming into the VA. And we
    have committed to each other to working together to meet the
    need of our Nation's veterans, from HUD and from the VA.
        So if confirmed by the Committee, and also if he is
    confirmed by the Committee, we have committed to that being a
    top priority that the two agencies work together to meet the
    needs of our veterans. I said before, I have veterans in my
    family, and so this is something that is very important to me
    as well that we take care of our patriots.
        Senator McCormick. You know, I understand before I arrived
    that you had answered several questions on Opportunity Zones.
    But it was such a signature part of the first Trump
    administration and because they were so effective, what lessons
    did you learn?
        What are the kinds of things you are going to be focused on
    in the Opportunity Zones, and in particularly new learnings,
    new things from the experience you had in the first Trump
    administration?
        Mr. Turner. Great, thank you for that question. I think
    that we can capitalize and improve on the successes we had. But
    also this time getting the rules out quicker so that we know
    exactly, you know, what we are working with to give us an
    opportunity to build more affordable housing.
        I think it will be a great vehicle for us to meet the need
    of the affordable housing crisis that we have in our country.
        Also to increase the operating businesses. We saw last time
    in Opportunity Zones, when we created more operating
    businesses, more jobs were created, families were blessed,
    salaries went up. And so to create more and more of those, and
    also workforce training inside of Opportunity Zones I think
    will be a key, key, vital part of Opportunity Zones going
    forward.
        Senator McCormick. Thank you.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Scott. Thanks, Senator. And next will be Senator
    Alsobrooks.
        Senator Alsobrooks. First I would like to say thank you to
    Chair Scott and Ranking Member Warren for your leadership on
    this Committee, for today's hearing, and for the privilege to
    serve on this Committee.
        The Banking Committee has jurisdiction over many important
    issues for Marylanders, including housing, transit, and access
    to capital. I look forward to working with both of you and all
    of our colleagues on this Committee to address the economic
    challenges facing our Nation.
        To Mr. Turner, congratulations to you and to your family on
    your nomination. And thank you for your willingness to serve as
    our Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. I know the
    moment is short, I have been warned already, and so I would
    just request if possible a simple yes or no some of the
    following questions.
        First of all, your role will be important as we seek to
    bring down prices and expand economic opportunity for every
    American. And I want to highlight two very important programs.
    We recognize an economic opportunity is directly tied to
    housing affordability for people of all income levels.
        First, two programs you have heard about already, the HUD
    programs in particular, community development block grant, as
    well as the HOME Investment Partnerships Program. In 2024,
    Maryland received $52 million through CDBG funding, as well as
    $18 million through the HOME Investment Partnership Program in
    2024.
        The HOME Investment Partnership Program in particular is
    the Department's flagship program and the only Federal block
    grant that is dedicated exclusively to the production of
    affordable housing for low income households.
        As you know, the housing shortage has been one of the most
    persistent contributions to inflation, and like the rest of the
    country, Maryland faces an affordability crisis and is short
    nearly 100,000 housing units.
        The previous Trump administration has repeatedly proposed
    cuts to HUD's budget. Will you oppose funding cuts to CDBG and
    HOME programs?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. And I am sorry that we
    didn't get the opportunity to meet, albeit, you know, it was a
    scheduling conflict, but I am happy to meet you today.
        What I will commit to is looking at these programs and to
    maximize the budget. As you know, Congress holds the purse
    strings to the budget. My job, if confirmed as Secretary, is to
    maximize that budget to meet the needs of our country, to serve
    those we have been called to serve. And so I do commit to that.
        Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you. Well, you will have an
    opportunity, if you are confirmed as Secretary, to oppose cuts
    to these important programs, and so my question is would you
    oppose cuts to these two important programs?
        Mr. Turner. What I will do is I will work with the
    President, I will work with Congress, and I will work with this
    team to make sure that the budget that we do have meets the
    needs of those that we are commissioned to serve.
        Senator Alsobrooks. The affordable housing crisis affects
    Americans of all demographics in red States and blue States,
    and so will you commit to working with and consulting Congress
    on a bipartisan basis?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, I believe working with Congress is very
    important, and to be transparent with Congress is very
    important. So yes, I do commit to working with you all if
    confirmed by the Committee.
        Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you. Now, former Trump
    administration HUD Secretary Ben Carson, who you have called a
    mentor, has called for placing political appointees, rather
    than career, experienced officials, in many apolitical senior
    HUD leadership roles. Do you agree with this approach?
        Mr. Turner. What I do agree with, as being a leader, you
    have to look at your team holistically. And if confirmed by
    this Committee, I do plan on looking at the team at HUD to see
    who and what we have and making sure that we have the best team
    in place to carry out the mission of HUD.
        I have been on a lot of teams in my life, and you know, I
    have also been cut from teams, so I understand what that means.
    But at the end of the day----
        Senator Alsobrooks. If I can, and I am sorry, because the
    hour is short, you don't want me, in other words, on your
    football team if I don't have experience on the basis of my
    political affiliation. So the question is just would you
    prioritize political affiliation over experience?
        Mr. Turner. What I will do is get the best qualified people
    for the job.
        Senator Alsobrooks. OK. And, finally, on a Federal
    workforce question, Maryland is home to more than 135,000
    Federal workers who work hard every day, and the official
    Department of Government Efficiency led by Elon Musk and Vivek
    Ramaswamy has proposed laying off 75 percent of Government
    workers. Do you support firing 75 percent of HUD employees?
        Mr. Turner. What I do support is encouraging people to do
    the job that they have been called to do. But also, I don't
    want to encourage people to do something I am not willing to
    do. I will take the lead in that. And again, having the best
    people at the right time to do the job is my goal.
        Senator Alsobrooks. Thank you.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you, ma'am.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, ma'am.
        Chairman Scott. Senator Ricketts.
        Senator Ricketts. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
    congratulations on the new role, and Ranking Member Warren,
    thank you very much.
        I look forward to working with both of you on this
    important Committee to address the issues with regard to our
    economic national security, the wellbeing of our economy and
    the financial security of Americans, and looking forward to how
    we can work to cut the Federal red tape around our Federal
    housing programs and make them effective and efficient.
        And Mr. Turner, thank you very much for your past service
    to our country and interest in--and your interest in continuing
    to serve our country here, and thank you to your family for
    being willing to sacrifice along with you as you do this.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Ricketts. As you are aware, we have talked about it
    a lot, affordable housing is just a critical national issue
    right now. And each State's particular housing needs are going
    to be different, right. It is going to be different between
    Nebraska and New York.
        And in my home State of Nebraska, a lot of our shortage has
    to do with available housing, not just affordable housing. So
    it is across the economic spectrum. And it is both urban and
    rural. And you have mentioned the rural part, and I appreciate
    that.
        You know, Nebraskans have been hard at work to make sure
    that, you know, all Americans can achieve the American dream of
    owning that household. When I was Governor, one of the things
    we did is we passed a bill, our Rural Workforce Housing Fund,
    which we set aside $7 million that then communities,
    nonprofits, developers could apply for grants to be able to use
    that.
        One of the most effective ways we saw this is that they
    would turn it into low interest loans to be able to help the
    developers and the cities work together to be able to create
    either single family homes or multifamily dwellings. And then
    once that was accomplished, would pay the money back and then
    it could be used for another project.
        And in fact that was so successful, 3 years later we added
    another $10 million to that program. And then we also then re-
    upped that, a similar type of program with our Middle Income
    Workforce Housing Fund that was more focused on urban areas.
        And then we also, I also gave priority to Opportunity
    Zones. You have talked a lot about that. We put State funds and
    dedicated from our State affordable housing trust fund to be
    able to help expand Opportunity Zones. I think that is a great
    opportunity that you mentioned.
        And then I also signed into law expanded low income housing
    tax credits to be able to incentivize private developers to
    build affordable housing. So all these are things that, you
    know, we did in Nebraska to be able to try and address some of
    these issues.
        And I point those out because, again, every State is going
    to be different. What I would like to have you address is how
    do you plan on working with States and local governments to
    leverage what the Federal programs are and Federal resources?
        But how can you work with States like Nebraska, and how
    might that be different from other States to be able to
    develop, you know, affordable housing? And how can you make
    sure that that States retain as much autonomy as possible to be
    able to address these needs while working with them?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator Ricketts. It was great
    visiting with you.
        I think that is simple. As the Chairman mentioned before,
    you know, going to the people, going to the States and
    listening to see, you know, what has been successful in
    Nebraska, and taking note to say to if this has been
    successful, then being supportive of that and getting the
    Government out of the way. Getting the Federal Government out
    of the way and allow you and your State and other States around
    the country to do those things that have brought them great
    success as it pertains to affordable housing.
        Senator Ricketts. I obviously wasn't here for a lot of the
    previous testimony, so I apologize if I am repeating a question
    here, but you know, you led President Trump's White House
    Opportunity Revitalization Council. You worked to promote the
    Opportunity Zones. You have mentioned them a couple times here.
        Is this a policy you want to carry forward with you as HUD
    Secretary if you are confirmed? And are there changes to the
    program you would make based on upon your previous experience?
        Mr. Turner. It absolutely is a policy we want to carry
    forward because the impact of it was tremendous. And obviously
    you know, in every policy, every piece of legislation, every
    program that has been successful, there is always things you
    can tweak.
        And we talked about watching film earlier. You know, we
    have the first round of Opportunity Zones, so we got a lot of
    film on it and the improvements that we could make.
        You know, take the successes of it and do them better.
    Hopefully we can get the rules out quicker, you know, we can
    increase operating businesses. But also, use it as a platform
    to build more affordable housing and create jobs in our
    country.
        Senator Ricketts. So how do you propose to incentivize
    States like Nebraska to be able to work with you on your
    priorities and get them willing to put in State funds in tandem
    with the Federal policies?
        Mr. Turner. I think, you know, when you ask people to work
    with you, you have to show some success. You have to show that
    you are transparent, that you are willing to do what it takes
    to be efficient. And I think when people see your successes and
    what you are putting forward, they are more apt to work with
    you.
        And so to go to States like Nebraska and lay out a plan of
    what we want to do from a HUD standpoint and work with you and
    other States I think will create a great partnership going
    forward to meet the mission of HUD.
        Senator Ricketts. OK. Well, one of the things we talked
    about was Americans experiencing homelessness and helping them
    find a safe and stable home. So obviously the heart of HUD's
    mission is to be able to do that. And it has been a bipartisan
    priority.
        HUD's 2024 Point-in-Time count identified 771,480 people
    experiencing homelessness, an 18 percent increase from the
    previous year and the highest number ever recorded. I know I am
    just running out of time here, but just, can you give me just a
    high level how will you use your office and your platform here
    to be able to reduce homelessness?
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, thank you, and I am very familiar
    with that report. To take inventory of the homelessness in our
    country and the programs that we provide at HUD, what is
    working and what is not. And also to engage, you know, the
    localities and organizations, including faith-based and others
    that are successful around the country and partner with them.
        Senator Ricketts. OK, thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Warnock.
        Senator Warnock. Thank you, Chairman Scott, and
    congratulations.
        Chairman Scott. Appreciate it.
        Senator Warnock. And I congratulate not only you but
    Ranking Member Warren on your selections to lead this important
    Committee. I look forward to working with you on the important
    housing needs of Georgians.
        Mr. Turner, welcome back.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Warnock. And welcome not only to you but also to
    your family. I enjoyed our conversation earlier this week.
        I often tell people that I am a product of good public
    policy. I think about that often. I have worked hard, but I
    wouldn't be sitting where I am, where I am sitting, without
    some help, some ladders. Good public policy. I grew up in
    public housing, and I understand the security and dignity that
    housing provides children and families.
        Mr. Turner, do you believe home ownership provides dignity,
    security, and access to generational wealth?
        Mr. Turner. I do.
        Senator Warnock. Thank you so much, I agree. And
    unfortunately, during the first Trump administration,
    President-elect Trump repeatedly proposed to slash HUD's
    budget, including cuts and the full elimination of key HUD
    programs that help people afford rent and realize the dream of
    home ownership, which you and I agree is so important.
        If enacted, these cuts would have raised housing costs for
    millions of American families. Last time, Congress stepped in
    year after year to save many of these programs. This time I am
    not so sure that we will be able to do it.
        Mr. Turner, if confirmed, will you commit to being a voice,
    a voice in the Administration against severe cuts to HUD's
    budget at a challenging time, including programs that help
    people afford rent and home ownership?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator. What I do commit to, you
    know, you and your colleagues in Congress, you hold the purse
    strings. Obviously the President presents his budget
    appropriations. You know, they present the budget and you all
    vote on it and the President signs it into law.
        My job and my goal if confirmed by the Committee,
    obviously, is to maximize that budget to meet the needs of the
    American people and to carry forth the programs at HUD.
        Senator Warnock. But will----
        Mr. Turner. So I do commit that to you.
        Senator Warnock. Will you be a voice to hold the line to
    protect programs that provide the dignity of home ownership and
    make rent affordable for working-class people, for poor people?
        Mr. Turner. I do commit to having those conversations with
    the President and with Congress as it pertains to being
    Ambassador and a voice for HUD and to maximize the budget that
    we are given to make sure those programs are efficient and
    meeting the needs of the American people. I do commit that to
    you.
        Senator Warnock. All right. I know you can be a voice. You
    are a preacher, they didn't mention that. Everybody is talking
    about the football player.
        Mr. Turner. Yeah, and we only have 2 minutes, you got to
    your second point.
        Senator Warnock. And you are a preacher and elected
    official, both of us, so, loquacious of speech.
        Mr. Turner. Yes.
        Senator Warnock. But this is a serious issue.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Senator Warnock. Because the racial home ownership gap has
    been widening over the last few years. Yesterday we celebrated
    Dr. King's actual birthday, Monday is the holiday. And folks
    often talk about those two key civil rights bills, the
    accommodations law in '64, civil rights laws, Voting Rights law
    in '65. We don't talk enough about Fair Housing.
        That is a victory of Dr. King's. That law was signed into--
    it was signed into law just a few days after his assassination.
    But that is a result of his work.
        The first Trump administration sought to weaken and even
    rescind landmark fair housing laws, laws pushed through by Dr.
    King. If confirmed, you would be responsible for enforcing
    these fair housing laws.
        If confirmed, will you commit to vigorous enforcement of
    the Nation's fair housing laws, yes or no?
        Mr. Turner. Yes.
        Senator Warnock. And would you be a strong voice in the
    Administration in favor of protecting existing fair housing
    laws from efforts to weaken them or roll them back?
        Mr. Turner. I do commit to upholding the fair housing laws,
    yes, sir.
        Senator Warnock. So one of the overlooked drivers of racial
    wealth inequity within our housing system is the very well-
    documented pattern of lenders and the appraisal market
    persistently assessing the value of Black and Brown homes lower
    than White homeowners. You and I discussed this a little bit
    the other day in my office.
        And my staff sent you some background information and data
    on appraisal bias. This is real money, hurting real people. In
    part at my urging, the Biden administration took steps to crack
    down on appraisal bias, with HUD leading an interagency effort.
        If confirmed, will you commit to continue to use HUD's
    tools and authorities to crack down on appraisal bias,
    including by continuing to provide consumers with data to push
    back on suspected bias?
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, Senator, thank you for the
    information that you sent. I have begun to read and I look
    forward to exploring that more with you. And as I said before,
    I do commit to upholding the law as it is on the book against
    all illegal discrimination.
        Senator Warnock. Including appraisal bias?
        Mr. Turner. We will continue to look into that, and I look
    forward to working with you on that and become more well-
    studied. Thank you.
        Senator Warnock. Thank you very much, and I hope you will
    continue HUD's important work on this matter, even as we go
    into this weekend of celebrating Dr. King's birthday.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Scott. Thank you, Senator Warnock. That concludes
    the question-and-answer portion of today's hearing. Prior to
    adjourning, I have some final housekeeping announcements.
        Before I do that, though, thank you for being with us
    today, Mr. Turner.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Scott. For Senators, we allow on questions for the
    record, you must submit them by noon tomorrow, January 17. Let
    me repeat that, that is 12 p.m. tomorrow.
        And for our witnesses--for our witness, please respond by
    Sunday, January 19th at 5 p.m. to the written questions you
    receive in order to facilitate this Committee promptly
    processing this nomination. Your ability to adhere to that is
    really important.
        Mr. Turner. Yes, sir, thank you.
        Chairman Scott. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:27 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
        [Prepared statements, biographical sketch of nominee, and
    responses to written questions supplied for the record follow:]
                    PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN TIM SCOTT
        First, I'd like to take the time to say I'm very grateful to my
    Republican colleagues for allowing me to serve as the Chairman for this
    119th Congress.
        I'd like to welcome our new Members to the United States Committee
    on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs. Let me suggest that this is not
    simply the Banking Committee. Without any question, urban affairs and
    housing are critical to meeting the needs and the objectives of the
    American people. Our new Members include Senator Pete Ricketts, Senator
    Jim Banks, Senator Bernie Moreno, Senator Dave McCormick, Senator Andy
    Kim, Senator Gallego, Senator Lisa Blunt Rochester, and Senator Angela
    Alsobrooks.
        I look forward to working with our Ranking Member, Elizabeth
    Warren, on addressing some of the issues that our Nation will face.
    Without any question, my hope is that in many ways, we'll have an
    opportunity to have a bipartisan conversation, looking for bipartisan
    solutions to many of the issues. That will probably not likely be the
    case all the time, but it can't be the case some of the time.
        And when it is, we should look for ways to achieve that objective
    for the American people.
        The American people seen their economic fortunes turned to dust.
    The devastation of the Biden administration's policies led to mortgage
    rates going from 2.65 percent in January 2021 to 7.79 percent by
    October 2023, crushing dreams of millions of Americans wanting to be
    homeowners. Draining savings of so many people. Devastating hope around
    the greatest country on the planet.
        Reckless spending was literally stealing the spending power of so
    many Americans. I remember these similar days when I was growing up as
    a poor kid in a single parent household. Home ownership was just so far
    away for me and my mom--it just wasn't an option. Housing isn't just
    about shelter--housing is about opportunity, and it is about stability.
    Housing creates the foundation for achieving the American Dream.
        It's about creating strong communities where families can thrive
    and build a better, brighter future. Under the Biden administration and
    progressive leadership, HUD spending at the same time soared to record
    levels. And yet the latest homelessness survey found an 18 percent
    increase in just the last 12 months, 33 percent increase since 2020.
    Since President Biden took office, mortgage rates have ballooned by 150
    percent and rents by 20 percent.
        Despite all the subsidies and all the trillions of dollars they
    spent, not much good has happened. I've said it before, and I'll say it
    again, if you look at the big picture--African American home ownership
    and the levels have not changed substantially since 1968, when the Fair
    Housing Act was passed. The data is clear--the American Dream of home
    ownership is slipping further and further away.
        But today, it is a new day in America, and new leadership brings
    hope and opportunity and enthusiasm back to the American people. Scott
    Turner is a native Texan who has had an exceptional journey from
    professional athlete to public servant. He understands firsthand the
    importance of hard work and what it means, as he was a dishwasher when
    he was in high school.
        He also understands the challenge that families face because of
    drug addiction within the family. He worked his butt off and had a very
    successful NFL career. He played cornerback for nine seasons. He played
    for the Denver Broncos, the San Diego Chargers and the Washington
    Redskins.
        You know, for a guy who now spends too much time in Washington, DC,
    I always thought DC met Dallas Cowboys. I apologize, I apologize. I
    know that's going because a lot of bad e-mails coming my way. But, Mr.
    Turner, I will not hold that against you that you play for the
    Redskins.
        I know you're here to serve the American people, and sometimes two
    different sides have to come together to make something positive and
    powerful happen for other people. One thing I have found to be
    completely clear about who you are, and I met you many years ago. You
    never give up--I don't think giving up is in your vocabulary. And we
    need a visionary leader just like that at HUD.
        After hanging up your cleats, Mr. Turner, you spent two terms in
    the State legislature in Texas. You recently were the executive
    director, as Senator Cornyn said, of the White House Opportunity and
    Revitalization Council under President Trump. In this role, you helped
    the Opportunity Zones that I wrote become a very successful program,
    with over $50 billion in private investment going into Opportunity
    Zones--devastated communities, typically majority minority--seeing
    revitalization and rehabilitation become a reality without gentrifying
    those communities.
        As a former Chairman of the county council in Charleston, South
    Carolina, I can tell you that the vast majority, the vast majority of
    housing issues must be solved at the local level. But there are things
    that we can do here in Congress to address the affordability crisis.
    And that role is getting Government out of the way as often as
    possible.
        This is why I introduced my ROAD to Housing Act in Congress. And I
    am so thankful for so many supporters in this room of that bill. I've
    seen firsthand the negative impact of renting your house only to give
    it back, and that is, in a few short words, the 2008 crisis. Let's not
    relive the mistakes of the past, but instead forge a new path for
    everyday Americans.
        This commonsense bill takes a comprehensive view of Federal housing
    policy and recenters support around families, helping those who are
    homeless, those who are renting, and those who will be homeowners. I
    look forward to marking up this bill in the weeks ahead and working
    with my colleagues on a bipartisan framework so that we can make sure
    that all segments of the housing market get the necessary attention to
    move forward.
        As we start this new chapter, we need new leadership. Scott Turner
    is the solution we are looking for and I look forward to his leadership
    at the Department of Housing and Urban Development.
                                     ______

             PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER ELIZABETH WARREN
        Today is our first hearing together as Committee Chair and Ranking
    Member. I want to offer my congratulations to you, Mr. Chairman. While
    I don't want to paper over our differences, I want to assure you--and
    every Member here--that I will work with you to advance our shared
    policy priorities.
        We can find some common ground. As Ranking Member, my focus will be
    the same as all Democrats: We will work to unrig the economy and make
    life affordable for working families.
        There are three critical areas where we should focus. First, we
    must make sure the financial system works for all Americans. Preventing
    ``too-big-to-fail'' banks from loading up on risks and growing even
    bigger. Protecting community banks. And making our financial
    regulations simpler and stronger.
        I support action here. But not all action is good action. I will
    fight tooth and nail against attempts to make it easier for Wall Street
    to rip off consumers or crash the financial system.
        We all remember what happened under the first Trump administration.
    Congress and the President weakened rules on big banks. The Nation's
    financial regulators took the hint and went to sleep. Executives got
    greedy, and--no surprise--a few years later, in 2023, we had the
    second, third, and fourth largest bank failures in our Nation's
    history. Those mistakes cannot be repeated.
        Second, we must advance the Nation's economic and national
    security. We must use export controls, trade policy, sanctions, and
    other levers to support economic security at home and promote our
    values abroad. We must protect our financial system from being
    exploited by criminals, rogue States, and terrorists. And we must grow
    American industry, invest in critical infrastructure, and build
    resilient supply chains at home.
        Third, we must focus on lowering costs for working families. The
    Committee must hold giant corporations accountable when they gouge
    families. We should partner with the Consumer Financial Protection
    Bureau and other law enforcement agencies to continue the fight against
    junk fees and anticompetitive pricing.
        We also must work to fix our housing system. All across this
    country, housing costs too much. This is Econ 101: supply and demand.
    We are not building enough housing. We need more housing everywhere,
    for everyone: big cities, small towns, first-time homebuyers, renters,
    seniors, veterans, students, people with disabilities. Everyone,
    everywhere.
        We need to make some big changes. To really move the needle, the
    Federal Government needs to be a good partner, investing in affordable
    housing and spurring local innovation to cut red tape.
        And we can--and should--do even more. It's time to crack down on
    corporate landlords that engage in illegal price fixing to drive up
    rents. To stop private equity firms from squeezing families and buying
    huge swaths of housing they turn into overpriced rentals.
        Solving the housing crisis will require an all-hands-on-deck
    effort. And that brings us to today's hearing, on the nomination of
    Scott Turner to be Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.
        Mr. Turner, if you are confirmed, you will lead the response to our
    Nation's housing crisis.
        I have appreciated our conversations so far. And if you are
    confirmed, I will work with you however I can. But we face an enormous
    task to reduce the cost of housing. Our work is urgently important for
    tens of millions of American families.
        You have a limited public record. The American people need to hear
    details about your plans to make housing affordable.

        They need to hear your plans for building the millions of
            homes that America needs.

        They need to hear how you will support renters and make
            sure that seniors and families that can't afford rent will
            receive the assistance they need.

        They need to hear your plans to help the 800,000 Americans
            experiencing homelessness.

        They need to hear your plans to enforce the Nation's fair
            housing laws.

        They need to hear how you will crack down on greedy
            corporate landlords and manage an agency that provides critical
            support for homeowners, renters, and communities across the
            country.

        This hearing is an opportunity for you to lay out your plans. I
    also sent you a 13-page letter with 75 questions earlier this week. I
    trust that you will give me answers to those detailed questions before
    we vote on your nomination. General principles are not enough--the nuts
    and bolts of how to make real change matter.
        Mr. Turner, I'm looking forward to your testimony today--and I hope
    you will give the American people a clear sense of your plans to run
    HUD.
                                     ______

                    PREPARED STATEMENT OF ERIC SCOTT TURNER
          To Be Secretary, Department of Housing and Urban Development
                                January 16, 2025
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all the Members of the
    Committee for your thoughts, your engagement, and your ideas on
    rebuilding the American dream for our Nation's forgotten communities.
    It was a pleasure to visit with nearly all of the Committee Members. I
    hope the conversations we had are just the beginning of what I trust
    will be a true partnership.
        I would also like to take a moment to thank my wife, Robin, for her
    unwavering support over the last nearly three decades that we have been
    together.
        And I want to thank President Trump for his confidence and for
    nominating me for this pivotal position.
        I sit before you today as the nominee to lead the Department of
    Housing and Urban Development. But deep down, this opportunity is very
    personal to me.
        You see, I grew up a kid in Plano and Richardson, Texas.
        Who worked as a dishwasher at Spring Creek Barbeque.
        Early on in childhood, whose family was broken due to divorce, with
    the odds stacked against him.
        Who overcame adversity and bucked the status quo to attend and
    graduate from college.
        Who, in spite of being drafted in the 7th round, went on to have a
    successful career in the National Football League.
        Who went on to serve in the Texas State Legislature, which was a
    great honor.
        And work in the White House to advance the Opportunity Zone
    initiative.
        As I sit before you today, I am humbled by the call to serve my
    country as a member of President Trump's cabinet.
        I know my upbringing and background are not completely unique.
    There are many in this country--some sitting in this room today--who at
    one point or another had to overcome adversity of all kinds. We have
    all been there. And recognizing this, I hope we can work together for
    the betterment of all Americans and the American Dream.
        I share my story with you because the challenges that HUD faces are
    vital to our Nation as well as personal to me. They're not just things
    I hear about and read about. These are experiences that members of my
    family and I have seen and lived. And that perspective is something I
    can bring to the table.
        HUD's mission is to create strong and sustainable communities and
    support quality affordable homes--serving the most vulnerable of our
    Nation.
        Yet, as we sit here, we have a housing crisis in our country, where
    American people and families are struggling every day. HUD is failing
    at its most basic mission.
        Take the Point-in-Time homelessness figures HUD released several
    weeks ago. On one single night, there were 770,000 Americans
    experiencing homelessness. Let that sink in: 770,000 homeless
    Americans. That's not only an all-time high, it's an increase of 32
    percent from just 2 years ago. That's a national embarrassment and
    something that cannot continue.
        As a country, we're not building enough housing. We need millions
    more homes of all kinds, single family, apartments, condos, duplexes,
    manufactured housing, you name it, so individuals and families can have
    a roof over their heads and a place to call home.
        Then there's the HUD workforce. Every report I've seen shows HUD at
    the bottom when it comes to employees returning to work. We need to
    bring the HUD staff back to the office so that they are empowered to
    serve the American people.
        But this moment is not just about fixing what's broken, it's about
    continuing and expanding the policies from the first Trump
    administration--policies that worked. I was fortunate to help lead the
    White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council. There, I saw
    firsthand the impact of Opportunity Zones, policies that give Americans
    in distressed communities an opportunity. A foundation. A chance to
    start a business. To build new homes. To be self-sustaining. To be
    self-confident and to unleash that promise and potential that I know
    the Lord blesses us all with.
        When I played in the NFL, we relied on game films to identify our
    mistakes and areas for improvement. I spent hours poring over the tapes
    to identify the smallest weaknesses in my game and determine what I
    could do to improve. The film told the story of my performance--cutting
    through the noise and focusing on results.
        If I am confirmed as Secretary, I want to bring this same approach
    to the work we do at HUD because each day we have an opportunity to
    improve and better serve the American people.
        Senators, this is a clarion call. Poverty has no party.
    Homelessness has no party. It doesn't see red or blue. My call is to be
    a steward, a champion, an ambassador. I want to lift up the stories of
    all the forgotten Americans. And I want to work with you to do it.
        My heart is ready to serve. I thank God for allowing me this
    opportunity. And I want to thank all of you on the Committee for your
    kindness and consideration.
        Thank you.

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