    [Senate Hearing 119-5]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 119-5

                          NOMINATION OF BROOKE ROLLINS
                         TO BE SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                           COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
                            NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   ----------

                                January 23, 2025

                                   ----------

                           Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry

     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                      Available on http://www.govinfo.gov/

                                  __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    58-427 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY

                        JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas, Chairman

    MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky            AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado
    JONI ERNST, Iowa                     TINA SMITH, Minnesota
    CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi        RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
    ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas               CORY BOOKER, New Jersey
    TOMMY TUBERVILLE, Alabama            BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico
    JAMES C. JUSTICE, West Virginia      RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia
    CHARLES GRASSLEY, Iowa               PETER WELCH, Vermont
    JOHN THUNE, South Dakota             JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania
    DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                ADAM SCHIFF, California
    JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  ELISSA SLOTKIN, Michigan

                   Fitzhugh Elder IV, Majority Staff Director
                    Caleb Crosswhite, Majority Chief Counsel
                        Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
                    Lauren Santabar, Minority Staff Director
                     Chu-Yuan Hwang, Minority Chief Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                           Thursday, January 23, 2025

                                                                       Page

    Hearing:

    Nomination Meeting for Brooke Rollins to be Secretary of
      Agriculture....................................................     1

                                  ----------

                        STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS

    Boozman, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Arkansas......     1
    Klobuchar, Hon. Amy, U.S. Senator from the State of Minnesota....     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Rollins, Brooke, of Texas, To Be Secretary of Agriculture........    38
                                  ----------

                                    APPENDIX

    Prepared Statements:
        Rollins, Brooke..............................................    72

    Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
    Boozman, Hon. John:
        American Farm Bureau Federation, letter of support...........    78
        American Forest and Paper Association, letter of support.....    90
        Association of Equipment Manufacturers, letter of support....    92
        Beef Alliance, letter of support.............................    93
        Combs, Susan, Texas Commissioner of AG, letter of support....    94
        Fertilizer Institute, letter of support......................    96
        International Fresh Produce Association, letter of support...    98
        Independent Women, letter of support.........................   103
        Leaders of State Departments of Agriculture, letter of
          support....................................................   104
        Lower Yellowstone Irrigation Project, letter of support......   108
        Mule Deer Foundation, letter of support......................   109
        National Mining Associate, letter of support.................   110
        National Cattlemen's Beef Association, letter of support.....   112
        Parents Defending Education, letter of support...............   114
        U.S. Seafood Policy Council, letter of support...............   116
        USDA Forestry Sector, letter of support......................   117
    Warnock, Hon. Raphael:
        USDA Equity Commission Final Report..........................   119

    Rollins, Brooke:
        Committee questionnaire, Office of Government Ethics
          Executive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure
          Report and 5-day letter filed by Rollins, Brooke...........   210

    Question and Answer:
    Rollins, Brooke:
        Written response to questions from Hon. John Boozman.........   246
        Written response to questions from Hon. Amy Klobuchar........   248
        Written response to questions from Hon. Joni Ernst...........   267
        Written response to questions from Hon. Cindy Hyde-Smith.....   269
        Written response to questions from Hon. Jerry Moran..........   276
        Written response to questions from Hon. Michael F. Bennet....   276
        Written response to questions from Hon. Tina Smith...........   282
        Written response to questions from Hon. Richard J. Durbin....   285
        Written response to questions from Hon. Cory Booker..........   290
        Written response to questions from Hon. Ben Ray Lujan........   294
        Written response to questions from Hon. Raphael Warnock......   295
        Written response to questions from Hon. Peter Welch..........   307
        Written response to questions from Hon. John Fetterman.......   312
        Written response to questions from Hon. Adam B. Schiff.......   317

          NOMINATION OF BROOKE ROLLINS TO BE SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE

                                  ----------

                           THURSDAY, JANUARY 23, 2025

                                            U.S. Senate
              Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
    SD-106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Boozman,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Boozman [presiding], McConnell, Hoeven,
    Ernst, Hyde-Smith, Marshall, Tuberville, Justice, Grassley,
    Thune, Fischer, Moran, Klobuchar, Bennet, Smith, Durbin,
    Booker, Lujan, Warnock, Welch, Schiff, and Slotkin.

       STATEMENT OF HON. BOOZMAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
     ARKANSAS, CHAIRMAN, U.S. COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION,
                              AND FORESTRY

        Chairman Boozman. Good morning. I am delighted to call
    today's hearing U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture,
    Nutrition, and Forestry to order.
        First, I would like to congratulate two Members of this
    Committee who were instrumental in organizing the inaugural
    ceremonies that took place at the Capitol earlier this week,
    Senator Klobuchar and Senator Fischer, respectively the
    Chairwoman and Ranking Member of the Senate Rules Committee in
    the last Congress. For more than a year, the Joint
    Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, led by Senator
    Klobuchar, put tremendous effort into the planning, organizing
    a traditional ceremony on the west front of the Capitol. As you
    know, those plans had to be set aside at the very last minute
    because of the bitter cold, for the more intimate gathering
    inside the Rotunda, that we witnessed on Monday.
        Thanks to her efforts, and without missing a beat, our
    Nation's tradition of peacefully transferring power continued,
    and the President was sworn in on the 20th of January, as
    required by the Constitution. Many thanks to Senator Klobuchar,
    Senator Fischer, and the staff for successfully organizing and
    hosting one of our Nation's most important civic traditions.
        I would also like to congratulate Senator Klobuchar on
    becoming the Ranking Member of our Committee. I have worked
    closely with her over the years and look forward to continuing
    our partnership. I visited Minnesota with Senator Klobuchar in
    the spring of 2023, and met with farmers with the Gopher State,
    and similarly, cold weather, that we are experiencing today,
    only it was in May. I greatly enjoyed the opportunity to hear
    those farm families, and I look forward to hosting her in
    Arkansas in the not too distant future.
        I would like to welcome the Committee's Members. For those
    returning, thank you for your continuing service. For our four
    new Members--Senators, Slotkin, Schiff, Moran, and Justice--
    thank you for choosing to serve on the Committee. I look
    forward to working with you and learning more about what is
    important to you and your states.
        Our Committee, established in 1825, is one of the oldest in
    the Senate. Our hearing room, which we will use in the future,
    is unique in that we do not have a dais but a table. We sit
    across from each other, not away from each other, symbolic and
    practical. I look forward to convening many meetings in Russell
    328 in the coming years, for us to work together and address
    the concerns of our farmers and ranchers and rural communities
    and those needing assistance.
        As the Chairman, my door is open to every Member of this
    Committee. The fundamental purpose of our Committee is to solve
    problems and help our citizens. I welcome you to share your
    ideas, concerns, and your solutions. Agriculture is not
    partisan. We all care about our Nation's farmers and ranchers.
    The state of rural America concerns us all. We all believe that
    no American should be hungry. I intend for this Committee to be
    highly productive in the 119th Congress. Working together this
    year, we will pass a farm bill that will meet the needs of our
    farmers, for today and for the future.
        This morning we meet to consider the nomination of Brooke
    Leslie Rollins of Texas to be the Secretary of Agriculture. Ms.
    Rollins, congratulations to you on your nomination. You are
    being nominated at a very challenging time for America's
    farmers. The costs for fuel, seed, and fertilizer remain high.
    Interest rates are also very high, and continue to be high.
    Farm gate prices are low. Farmers everywhere are losing money
    on every acre they cultivate while farmers in certain parts of
    the country are losing hundreds of dollars per acre.
        Thankfully, Congress responded at the end of last year and
    provided a bridge to help ensure producers could plant again
    this year. Delivering this economic assistance to our farmers
    will be one of the major tasks you will be faced as Secretary,
    but as I mentioned, this was only a bridge. It was necessary
    because the safety net our producers have counted on in the
    past no longer works. I look forward to working with my
    colleagues in this room, across the Senate, and with you to
    help create a farm bill that meets the realities of modern-day
    agriculture.
        Beyond the economic strains our farmers and ranchers feel,
    I believe our producers want an improved relationship with
    USDA. They want to know USDA has their back and is helping them
    with the tools and support needed to successfully and
    profitably farm and ranch, rather than coercing them into
    production practices that do not work for their operations.
    They want new markets and new opportunities to sell what they
    produce. They want conservation programs to help with the
    issues they are facing on their farms. They want rural
    communities to have the infrastructure and the resources for a
    high quality of life. USDA, with the right leadership, can do
    all of these things.
        Beyond agriculture production, USDA is a land manager,
    research institution, food regulator, protector of animal
    health, and rural lender. There is very little USDA does not
    touch or have an impact on. All of these resources and
    abilities can be used to improve the quality of life not only
    in rural America but all of America.
        As I met and talked with Ms. Rollins, it is clear the needs
    of American farmers, ranchers, and rural communities will be
    her focus. It is also clear that she has the relationships
    across the new Administration and an understanding of the
    processes in which decisions are made in the executive branch
    to best position our producers for success. I look forward to
    seeing her bring her considerable skills and her abilities to
    bear at USDA for the benefit of our farmers, ranchers, and
    rural communities.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Klobuchar for her opening
    statement.

      STATEMENT OF HON. KLOBUCHAR, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
                               MINNESOTTA

        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
    we welcome you, Ms. Rollins, thank you, your entire family,
    that seems to take up like ten rows, as well as the FFA, your
    FFA officers--it is kind of an incredible group there--and your
    ag teacher.
        I want to thank Chairman Boozman for holding this important
    nomination hearing. Thank you to our colleagues from Texas who
    are here. Senator Boozman and I have been friends and
    colleagues for years, and as you noted, you came to visit my
    state. We did not consider that cold that day in May. We
    considered it a beach day with a touch of snow. I want to thank
    you for visiting with our farmers and our ranchers and our
    conservation and nutrition leaders in our state.
        I also look forward to working with you to be a voice for
    rural America. All of our colleagues on this Committee are
    incredible voices for rural America. I am really excited. I
    have told our Democratic leaders on this Committee how excited
    I am about the people that are on this Committee, and I believe
    we are going to work really well together.
        I want to mention our friend and colleague, Senator
    Stabenow, for her 14 years of leadership of this Committee. She
    is now retired from this Committee. Whether it was passing farm
    bills, standing up for conservation programs, or making sure
    there was food on the table, she was always at the forefront of
    the fight.
        I would like to thank all of our returning Members as well
    as the new Senators on the Committee, that Senator Boozman
    mentioned--Senator Schiff and Senator Slotkin. They have been
    already really strong participants in all of these discussions
    we have been having. Senator Moran as well as Senator Justice,
    thank you. We are looking forward to continuing the strong
    tradition of bipartisanship.
        Ms. Rollins, again thank you for being here. I enjoyed our
    previous discussions, and I look forward to the hearing today
    and hearing from you about your plans for the future. I know
    you and your family--I just talked to your mom about it--have
    had a farm in Minnesota for years, and I hope you will be
    visiting our state again soon.
        As you know, the Secretary of Agriculture is a voice for
    rural America within the President's Cabinet. If rural America
    is going to prosper it will be important to have a Secretary
    who will address the challenges facing farmers and rural
    families, who sees the importance of nutrition and
    conservation, and who will work with us on a strong bipartisan
    farm bill.
        We, on this Committee, have made progress on so many
    fronts, from strengthening crop insurance to improving
    voluntary conservation programs to the good work we have done
    on biofuels across the aisle. There are still numerous
    challenges facing America--avian flu, struggling dairy
    producers, flooding, droughts, wildfire, as Senator Schiff well
    knows, scarcity at food shelves, and the lack of housing,
    childcare, and health care facilities in rural America.
        As we discussed, I have concerns about some of the proposed
    policies from the Administration, and while I have always
    supported targeted tariffs, I am concerned that major across-
    the-board tariff increases could hurt rural America. I hope
    that, if confirmed, that Ms. Rollins will make the case for
    sensible trade policy that will work for our farmers and rural
    America.
        We also need leaders of the USDA that believe in science
    and research, which is so critical right now. I know many of
    our Members will be asking on that front.
        As the Ranking Member of this Committee, I am committed to
    doing what is right for rural America, which means finding
    common ground when we can, but standing our ground where we
    must. In Minnesota, our prosperity depends on the strength and
    vitality of our rural communities. Farmers and livestock
    producers need access to safety net programs with weather
    conditions threatening all the time, input costs, and the like.
    Rural businesses cannot spur innovation and create jobs without
    an available workforce, which I think is going to be an issue
    we will be confronting this year, as well as childcare, health
    care, housing, and broadband. I know this is true not just for
    me but for all Members of this Committee.
        I look forward to the hearing today and learning more
    about, Ms. Rollins, your plans for the Department of
    Agriculture. Thank you very much, and thank you to our
    colleagues.
        Chairman Boozman. Today we are being joined by our
    colleagues from Texas to introduce our nominee. Thank you all
    for being here. Senator Cornyn, will you please proceed.
        Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Chairman Boozman and Ranking
    Member Klobuchar, Members of the Agriculture Committee. I am
    delighted to be here, along with my colleague, Senator Cruz, to
    introduce our friend, Brooke Rollins, to be the next Secretary
    of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
        This one is a no-brainer. Everybody who knows Brooke
    Rollins loves Brooke Rollins, and you will too, once you get to
    know her. I first met Brooke years ago, when serving in State
    Government in Texas, but it was when she was the Policy
    Director for then-Governor Rick Perry that I began to see what
    a truly dedicated public servant she was, and still is.
        Since this time, as you know, from reading her resume, you
    know she has had quite an impressive career, and so I am
    delighted to be here today to help introduce her.
        She was born and raised, as was pointed out, in Glen Rose,
    Texas. For those of you who have not pulled out your map to see
    where that is, it is about an hour southwest of Fort Worth. She
    brings firsthand experience to the often difficult realities of
    farm life into the Department of Agriculture.
        She graduated from Texas A&M School of Agricultural
    Leadership, Education, and Communications. I thought I heard a
    whoop somewhere.
        [Audience whooping.]
        Senator Cornyn. Texas is home to nearly 230,000 farms and
    ranches, more than any other state in the country, and one in
    every seven Texans works in an agriculture-related job. This is
    critical to our state and to the Nation, as has been pointed
    out. Brooke's agricultural roots will serve her well as
    Secretary of Agriculture, to give farmers and producers from
    the Lone Star State and across the country a clarion voice when
    it comes to President Trump's Cabinet.
        Ms. Rollins' credentials go way beyond the day-to-day
    intricacies of farming. She is also a University of Texas Law
    School graduate, and a policy wonk. She will confess to that
    during this hearing today. That is demonstrated by her years of
    service as general counsel to Governor Perry and her 15 years
    leading one of Texas' premier policy institutes, the Texas
    Public Policy Foundation. It was during President Trump's first
    administration she served as Director of the Domestic Policy
    Council. Many of us worked with her closely there, where she
    assisted Jared Kushner in that job.
        You know that position is responsible for coordinating the
    domestic policymaking of the White House and ensuring that
    decisions and programs are consistent with the President's
    goals, and overseeing the implementation of the President's
    domestic policy agenda. Since her time in the first Trump
    administration, Brooke has served as President and CEO of
    America First Public Policy Institute, where she helped craft
    the agenda for President Trump's second term.
        I have worked with Brooke in a number of roles and seen her
    as she has helped advance bipartisan legislation, both in
    Austin and here in the Nation's capital, and I know she will
    bring that experience and that temperament to her job at USDA.
    It is a good thing because she has her job cut out for her.
    First, Congress has failed to pass a 5-year farm bill, and I
    know that is priority number one for this Committee. She will
    have an opportunity to work with each of you to shape this
    critical legislation that farmers and ranchers across the
    country depend on.
        As has been alluded, I think by Senator Klobuchar, the
    disasters that we have experienced throughout the country have
    hit farm country particularly hard, and I know she will work
    hard with you and all of us to make sure we provide an
    essential lifeline to our farmers and ranchers.
        As Coach Tuberville knows, the Texas A&M football team, of
    which Brooke is a devoted fan, says their student body is the
    12th man, who propels them to victory. I know Brooke is honored
    to step up now and become the 12th woman for the farmers and
    ranchers of America.
        I am looking forward to working with her and with all of
    you to pass a farm bill and put farmers back where they deserve
    to be, and that is first and foremost in our policy
    deliberations. I have no doubt that Brooke is exactly the
    person for the job to implement President Trump's agenda at
    USDA.
        It is my honor to be here with all of you, and her family,
    and a multitude of friends. Even her high school ag teacher is
    here. Everybody who knows Brooke, loves Brooke, and I know you
    will too as you get to know her.
        Thank you for allowing me to be here and say a few words by
    way of introduction.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Senator Cruz.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Boozman. Thank
    you Ranking Member Klobuchar, Members of the Committee. Let me
    start by saying what Senator Cornyn said a minute ago is
    absolutely right. This is a no-brainer. Brooke Rollins is the
    nominee to be Secretary of Agriculture is an extraordinary
    choice, and I have absolute confidence that every Member of
    this Committee is going to be very, very happy working with her
    in that role in the next four years.
        I have been friends with Brooke for over two decades, from
    when she was Policy Director for then-Governor Rick Perry to
    when she led the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which became
    the preeminent free market state foundation in the country, to
    when she came to Washington to join President Trump to lead the
    Domestic Policy Council, to her more recent years leading the
    America First Policy Institute.
        At every stage, she has proven herself to be a leader, she
    has proven herself to be an innovative policy thinker, and she
    has proven herself able to bring people together to accomplish
    major objectives. All of those skills will serve her and the
    farmers and ranchers of America exceptionally well.
        To know Brooke is to know she is an Aggie, and all Aggies
    are members of a cult----
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Cruz [continuing]. which I say from a place of deep
    love. I am convinced if you were to cut Brooke's hand right
    here it would not bleed red, but it would bleed maroon onto
    this table. She brings that ferocity to everything she does.
    She brings creativity. She brings joy. Brooke is always
    smiling, and she is smiling because she has a vision of where
    to take us.
        She grew up in a small agricultural community, Glen Rose,
    Texas. Her summers were spent at her family's Minnesota farm,
    helping with the corn, potato, and soybean crops. I have to
    say, Brooke, the level of foresight to kiss up to the Ranking
    Member as a young child is impressive.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Cruz. Her experiences in barrel racing--and by the
    way, for everyone who knows barrel racers, yes, they are
    crazy--and raising livestock for 4-H and Future Farmers of
    America, instilled in her a profound appreciation for the
    challenges and rewards of life in agriculture.
        Farmers and ranchers in America right now are facing
    extraordinary challenges, challenges that are putting their
    livelihood at risk, putting their families at risk, putting the
    ability to provide food and fiber and clothing for the American
    people at genuine risk. Farmers and ranchers of this Nation,
    the farmers and ranchers in the great State of Texas, are
    looking to this Committee for leadership, and they are looking
    to the next Secretary of Agriculture for leadership.
        In Texas, in South Texas, we face historic droughts, and
    yet our neighbor, the Nation of Mexico, is in brazen violation
    of the 1944 Water Treaty that obligates it to provide water
    each year to the people of South Texas. I have no doubt that
    soon-to-be Secretary Rollins will be a ferocious advocate for
    those South Texas farmers, just as she is a ferocious advocate
    for farmers and ranchers in every one of your states and all
    across the country.
        She is going to be an extraordinary and even an historic
    Secretary of Agriculture. I am proud to join John Cornyn in
    supporting my friend, Brooke Rollins, and I encourage you to do
    the same.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you, Senator Cruz. Again, thank
    you, Senator Cornyn, for being here.
        I would now like to recognize our nominee, Brooke Rollins,
    to introduce some of her guests, before I administer the oath
    and she gives her opening statement.
        Ms. Rollins. Good morning, everyone. What a joy to be here,
    and wow, a little surreal and slightly overwhelming, the two
    gentlemen that were sitting up here, whom I have known, as they
    mentioned, for a long time. I want to thank them.
        A few guests, and I appreciate, Senator Boozman, the
    opportunity to introduce them. My awesome mom right here, whose
    new issue that all of you know, the oldest freshman legislator
    in Texas history, Helen Kerwin, raised my sisters and me by
    herself in that small town, and PFAS is her big issue. I know a
    lot of you are certainly concerned with that.
        My incredible husband, Mark Rollins. We met the first week
    of our freshman year at Texas A&M, Senator Tuberville, in 1990,
    35 years ago, and our four incredible children, Luke, Jake,
    Anna, and Lily are here with me. Luke is the oldest--Luke,
    raise your hand. Listen to your mother. Very good. He is a
    sophomore at Texas A&M University in the Corps of Cadets, and
    in fact, left College Station at 1:30 last night, 1:30 a.m., to
    drive all night, catch a flight in Dallas, and be here this
    morning. I am especially grateful to him and my other
    incredible children. Even though they are all teenagers--Luke
    is 20--it has been the joy and most important part of my life,
    being their mom, so what a joy to have them.
        My sister, Ann Bluntzer, my sister, Helen Hubert, Eliza, my
    niece, they are all here, my sister-in-law and brother-in-law,
    Tim and Elizabeth Yaggi. My incredible ag teacher, who I would
    like to stand up. This is Mr. Gary Rosenbush, who put up with a
    lot from this FFA'er.
        [Applause.]
        Ms. Rollins. I have often said that the Future Farmers of
    America changed my life and put me on a course that, frankly,
    leads me to today. Mr. Rosenbush was a big part of that.
        I also want to recognize, a lot of people know that I take
    great pride in my short but I think very successful life as a
    Little League softball coach. My daughter, Lily, was the
    catcher on the team, but most of the rest of the team also flew
    in last night. The Hot Tamales, everyone, from Texas, are here.
    Thank you guys for being here.
        [Applause.]
        Ms. Rollins. My 1990-1991 State FFA officer team from all
    parts of Texas. There were 10 of us. The other 9 all came--ag
    teachers, insurance agents, workers of the land, they are all
    here. What a joy to have my State FFA officer team here, as
    well. If you all want to stand. What an incredible inspiration.
        [Applause.]
        Ms. Rollins. I know, Senator, I could go on and on. I
    promise I am going to cut this short. One other thing, one
    other person, Pastor Jentezen Franklin of Georgia, who has been
    such an inspiration to me, flew all the way in from Free Chapel
    in Georgia to pray with my family and I this morning. Pastor
    Franklin, I want to thank you, as well. One of the great
    pastors of our time. Pastor, thank you.
        I have so many Texas friends, other family that are here,
    but I will wrap it there and just say what an incredible honor
    to have all of them behind me today.
        Chairman Boozman. That is great. That is wonderful.
        Please stand and raise your right hand.
        Do you swear or affirm that the statement that you are
    about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
    the truth, so help you God?
        Ms. Rollins. I do.
        Chairman Boozman. Do you agree that if confirmed you will
    respond to requests to appear and testify before any duly
    constituted committee of the Senate?
        Ms. Rollins. I do.
        Chairman Boozman. Again, congratulations on your
    nomination. You can have a seat. You are recognized for five
    minutes to give your opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF BROOKE ROLLINS, OF TEXAS, TO BE SECRETARY OF
                              AGRICULTURE

        Ms. Rollins. Thank you. Chairman Boozman, Ranking Member
    Klobuchar, and distinguished Members of this Committee, first
    my thanks to President Donald Trump for his faith in me to lead
    the United States Department of Agriculture. His confidence
    fuels my determination to deliver.
        I also want to thank my dear friends and fellow Texans,
    Senator John Cornyn and Senator Ted Cruz for so graciously
    introducing me to this Committee.
        I also, obviously, want to extend my sincere thanks to all
    of you, the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition,
    and Forestry, for your careful consideration of my nomination,
    and understand, and perhaps most importantly, I want to thank
    and am so overwhelmed at the honor to potentially serve the men
    and women who daily, without pause or complaint, provide our
    great nation and the world with the best food, fiber, and fuel.
        Throughout the past several weeks I have met or spoken with
    every Republican and Democrat Senator on this Committee, and I
    appreciate your insights, your concerns, and your very wise
    counsel. It is clear we all agree that farmers and ranchers are
    the cornerstone of our Nation's communities, and I commit to
    you today that if confirmed I will do everything in my ability
    to make sure our farmers, ranchers, and rural communities
    thrive.
        I also want to thank the many Senators and Representatives
    on Capitol Hill with whom I have had the incredible opportunity
    to work with these last two decades, during my career in public
    policy, in my time first with Governor Rick Perry, then leading
    the Texas Public Policy Foundation, in my various roles in the
    Trump administration, the first one, and since 2021, in my role
    founding and leading the America First Policy Institute. Each
    of you cares deeply about the American people whom we all
    serve, and I promise my work will reflect that commitment.
        Growing up in the small ag town of Glen Rose, Texas--you
    all have heard this--population then 1,200 people, is where my
    story begins. Then my world revolved around the Future Farmers
    of America, 4-H, and the endless cycle of baling hay, livestock
    shows, and rodeos. That still, today, constitute the calendar
    of our small corner of Texas.
        That experience sent me to Texas A&M on an agriculture
    scholarship, where I studied and majored in ag leadership and
    development, then on to the University of Texas Law School,
    where I graduated with honors and performed a federal judicial
    clerkship. Then, of course, to helm the policy shop of Texas
    Governor Rick Perry. It was there that I had my first direct
    leadership role in big state ag policy.
        I had been in office serving Governor Rick Perry for 2-plus
    years when I received a call, a small think tank of two or
    three staffers in San Antonio, who asked if I would be
    interested in being their new leader, and I answered that call,
    as well, thinking that as my husband and I built our family
    that that would be helpful and a good potential opportunity to
    be a great mom but also continue to fight for Texas.
        At TPPF over the next years we fundamentally redefined the
    mission of a think tank from just having ideas or writing about
    them in white papers to actually effectually changing policy
    for the people of our state. We engaged strongly during those
    15 years the Texas rural and small town communities, giving
    them a voice in government that was too often denied. In short,
    we changed the game in Texas.
        Changing the game is exactly why I accepted the invitation
    to join President Trump's first administration at the beginning
    of 2018. Everything that we had sought to do in Texas those
    last decades, to make policy for real change, for real Texans,
    was being done in the first Trump administration, and I was so
    honored and excited to be part of it. I joined first to the
    White House Office of American Innovation as its leader. I then
    soon became the Assistant to the President, in addition, on
    Strategic Initiatives, and eventually added the role of the
    Director of the Domestic Policy Council.
        In January 2021, exactly four years ago, we understood that
    President Trump's second-term agenda would be delayed, so I had
    the privilege and the idea of establishing yet another
    institution of policy leadership, and the America First Policy
    Institute was born. I currently serve as the President and CEO
    there.
        Thanks to President Trump and to all of you, I hope to have
    the opportunity to bring that level of passion and commitment
    to the USDA. I need not tell you, of all people, that this is
    surpassingly important, because agriculture is surpassingly
    important to us as a Nation. All Americans are important, but
    the farmer, the worker of the land, who feeds all the others,
    is amongst the most notable. Thomas Jefferson wrote that
    ``Agriculture is our wisest pursuit because it will--excuse me,
    I do not want to get Thomas Jefferson's quote wrong; cannot
    misquote Thomas Jefferson--because it will, in the end,
    contribute most to real wealth, good morals, and happiness'',
    and his wisdom holds true today.
        I fully recognize that if I am confirmed I am stepping into
    the role during one of the most economically challenging times
    in American agriculture history. With that in mind, I want to
    share with you, as I close, my top priorities for day one, and
    then perhaps a longer-term priority.
        First, we must ensure that the disaster and economic
    assistance authorized by Congress is deployed as quickly and as
    efficiently as possible.
        Second, we must work with the great men and women of USDA,
    the stakeholder communities, and state leaders--my deep
    background in state policy--to immediately and comprehensively
    get a handle on the state of animal disease outbreaks.
        Third, we must immediately begin to modernize, realign,
    rethink the United States Department of Agriculture, responding
    to the clear needs and the desires of the American people, as
    set forth so well by the President of the United States over
    this last historic week.
        Finally, and longer term, we understand that serving all
    American agriculture and all the American people means ensuring
    that our rural communities are equipped and supported to
    prosper not just today but tomorrow and the day after that and
    the many tomorrows to come. This includes exploring
    improvements to our rural development programs, demanding
    strong and steady domestic and export markets for our beautiful
    agriculture bounty, eliminating burdensome and costly
    regulations that hamper innovation, ensuring our nutrition
    programs are effective and efficient, and putting in the work
    to make sure we have a healthy and prepared next generation of
    farmers, ranchers, entrepreneurs, innovators, and indeed, all
    Americans. This is what we need for the next century of
    American greatness.
        These are just four of my top priorities. Beyond these, I
    am dedicated and committed to providing all of you with the
    timely technical assistance that we will need to ensure that we
    have a farm bill that moves forward.
        My aim, after all, is the same as yours, the same that
    brought you to the Senate, the same that brought Donald J.
    Trump to the presidency again, and that is to serve the people
    and this great country.
        Thank you, Senator, and thank you, Ranking Member
    Klobuchar.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Rollins can be found on page
    71 in the appendix.]
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you for your opening statement.
        As is customary, my colleagues and I would like to ask you
    some questions. Each Senator will have 7 minutes to ask
    questions during this first round. If we need an additional
    round that will be 5 minutes.
        Before I ask my questions I would like to add a number of
    letters in support of Ms. Rollins' nomination into the record.
    In particular, I would like to highlight one letter signed by
    the Farm Bureau, the Farmers Union, the National Council of
    Farmers Cooperatives, and more than 400 other agricultural
    organizations supporting Ms. Rollins' nomination. Without
    objection, so ordered.
        [The letters can be found on pages 78-118 in the appendix.]
        Chairman Boozman. In your written statement, again, you
    alluded to, and the testimony that you just provided, you
    talked about your focus, you know, some of the things you want
    to do. Can you expand on that a little bit more? The first 100
    days, what can we expect?
        Ms. Rollins. I think the first 100 days, sir, if I am so
    fortunate to be confirmed, will be a fast and furious effort to
    ensure that we move that economic aid out. In fact, when I got
    the call from the President about this particular position it
    was the honor of a lifetime to accept that call and to accept
    the nomination. Then about 5 minutes later I started thinking
    about, okay, what do I do to make this successful and perhaps
    the best, most effective, efficient, United States Department
    of Agriculture in history, since President Lincoln first
    launched this Department.
        The aid to the farmers, top priority, animal disease, top
    priority, ensuring that we begin to move toward President
    Trump's vision. I work for him. I am his Cabinet Member. Also
    working alongside all of you. In so many of the conversations
    that we all had over the last 4 to 6 weeks, from both sides of
    the aisle, from both Republicans and Democrats, were very
    encouraging to me. I believe that there is an opportunity,
    while there will be moments of disagreement. I have no doubt
    that there will also be many, many moments of agreement.
        Chairman Boozman, my thought is that we get in there, and
    anyone that knows me and that has worked with me over the
    course of all these years knows that excellence is not only the
    goal but the expectation, that we move with rapid speed to
    ensure it gets done, that we work 24 hours a day, 7 days a
    week, for our constituents, which is American agriculture, and
    that at the end of the day this country and that community is
    thriving in a way perhaps they never have before, because of
    the work and the foresight and the goals and the vision that I
    think is so important.
        Chairman Boozman. Good. I appreciate you, you know, on
    several occasions, bringing up the disaster assistance. This
    Committee worked in a very bipartisan way to get that done. It
    was a big effort, and it took a lot of work, and again, we were
    able to get that done in a very bipartisan way.
        That is what we have heard about from our farmers now, is
    thank you for doing it but we desperately need it so that we
    can talk to our bankers and try and figure things out from this
    last year, where most farmers lost a lot of money, their path
    forward. Again, that, I think, is music to all of our ears.
        Trade is vitally important to American agriculture. Our
    abundant yields and high-quality crops help feed the world. Can
    you please describe how the President's trade agenda will
    prioritize the needs of American farmers and ranchers. If our
    trading partners unfairly target U.S. agriculture producers,
    how will the Administration minimize the impact to our
    producers?
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator, and I am actually glad
    this is at the top of the next few hours, because I think it is
    on the mind of every Member of this Committee and perhaps every
    member of the ag community across this great nation.
        The first, I think, that is important to note is that the
    last few years we have almost a $45 billion trade deficit for
    our ag products. A key priority will be expanding access to
    these markets across the country. We have already been sort of
    vision-boarding--not to get ahead of the process, but I want to
    make sure I am able to hit the ground running--how it is we
    begin to immediately effectuate bringing down that $45 billion
    trade deficit, and it is just up 42 percent in the last year.
    There is a deep recognition that corn prices are down 35
    percent just in the last year, as well--the past two years, I
    am sorry--and that, in fact, our farmers are hurting.
        Regarding the President's tariff agenda, I think it
    probably comes as no surprise to anyone sitting in this room
    that he believes it is a very important tool in his toolkit to
    continue or bring America back to the forefront of the world
    and to ensure that we have a thriving economy. Just as he did,
    and we did, in the first administration, he also understands
    the potential devastating impact to our farmers and our
    ranchers.
        During that time I have spoken with Secretary Perdue a few
    times on how that was managed, and to that team, so I fully
    understand, and that we are prepared to execute something
    similar, if approved, if confirmed, but also working with the
    White House to ensure that we can close those holes for our
    farmers and ranchers, moving forward, under any sort of tariff
    execution in the next coming days, in the next few years. That
    will be a top priority of mine.
        Chairman Boozman. Very good. Hunger is an issue that we
    continue to face. My home State of Arkansas has the highest
    rate of food insecurity in the Nation. At USDA you will be
    responsible for leading 16 nutrition programs that assist 1 in
    4 Americans. These programs make up the vast majority of the
    spending at the Department.
        In spite of these programs, which have grown substantially
    over the last 20 years, the national food insecurity rate has
    hovered around 12 percent since 2001, even during times of
    economic prosperity. The goal of these programs is to provide
    temporary assistance to those in need, but the focus on moving
    families to a place of economic independence has been lost.
        Will you commit to reviewing these programs to ensure they
    help incentivize Americans to secure steady employment while
    still being able to trust that their federal supplemental
    assistance can be relied on in times of need?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I so appreciate your concern and
    focus on this incredibly important program. I think sometimes
    people on our side of the aisle are framed as those that do not
    care as much about the kids or those who are hurting or those
    from disadvantaged communities. I know I have spent my career
    working to ensure that every corner of America, that everyone
    has a shot at the American dream, first with Rick Perry, then
    with my think tank, then with President Trump, then with the
    AFPI, the America First Policy Institute.
        I too have a real heart for this work, and I have talked to
    many of you about that in your offices. That is perhaps driven
    by being raised in a small town, by a single mom, and we did
    not have much. Now, we never participated in the nutrition
    program, but I am fully aware and have a heart for this work
    and for this community, that it is easy to make the commitment
    to ensure that we are doing everything we can, that this
    supplemental program continues on a course of being effective
    and efficient.
        Having said that, it is also imperative to us that every
    taxpayer dollar that is spent in support of these programs we
    fully understand that it is reaching its intended recipient,
    that that recipient is able to use it effectively and
    efficiently, for true nutrition reason, that we have a real
    health issue in this country. You all know this. I think 4 out
    of 5 children are facing obesity or close to it, that level of
    diabetes and chronic diseases continue to rise.
        We, together, and myself, if so fortunate to be confirmed,
    will have a major role in all of the above, ensuring that these
    programs are serving those who need them, and doing it
    effectively, but also ensuring that the taxpayers are being
    well served, that the dollar that we take from, you know, my
    electrician in Fort Worth, who has his own small business, and
    then sending it to a family in need, that that dollar is being
    used in the best and most effective way. That is certainly my
    commitment to you, Chairman.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Klobuchar.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Again, welcome, Ms. Rollins. As we both noted, the Chairman and
    I, this Committee has worked together, and all the Members know
    this, on a bipartisan way to pass farm bills in the past,
    improve the farm safety net, stand up for conservation,
    nutrition, food security.
        Will you be a force for working with both sides of the
    aisle?
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you so much, Senator Klobuchar, for that
    question, and it is exceedingly important to me that we deliver
    for American farmers and ranchers, exceedingly. I have already
    begun to lose some sleep over how to make that happen in a way
    that is productive and supporting your work.
        I have a long history of working in a bipartisan manner. It
    may not be at the forefront of my bio or my resume, but I
    worked with many of you in the last administration on the First
    Step Act, which I believe was perhaps the hallmark of President
    Trump 1.0 and bipartisan work together. I sat in an office for
    many hours with Senator Durbin, Senator Grassley, Senator
    Booker, Senator Scott, and many others from both sides, as we
    hammered out how to solve the criminal justice challenges that
    our Bureau of Prisons is facing. I hope to bring that same
    skill set and perhaps knowledge base in relationships to this
    effort, as well.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. I appreciate you mentioned
    animal disease as one of your lead priorities, as well as the
    disaster economic assistance. As you know, and you and I
    discussed this, since 2022, the most recent outbreak of avian
    flu has devastated poultry producers, spread to dairy cattle,
    resulting in at least one death. We are starting to see
    increases in certain prices attributed to that.
        If confirmed, how will you ensure that farmers have the
    resources they need to combat the spread of this virus? What is
    your plan?
        Ms. Rollins. There is no doubt that what the community, and
    whom we all work for, that community, not just America but the
    entire world relies on for an abundant, safe, and secure food
    supply. Just learning of the devastation in Georgia, just over
    the last few weeks, with the poultry outbreak and the
    depopulation there of our poultry, of course, to your point
    about dairy, it has been affecting some of the dairy herds, I
    believe, across 16 states. There is a lot that I have to learn
    on this, and if confirmed, this will be, as I mentioned in my
    opening statement, one of the very top priorities. We are
    hyper-focused on finding the team right now--I am assured they
    are already working. I have obviously respected the process and
    not gotten too involved--but I know that the current team and
    the future team will be working hand-in-hand to do everything
    we can on animal disease.
        Senator, if I may add one more thing. My deep background
    working in state policy included working very closely with
    Governors' offices and ag commissioners across this great
    country. In fact, in the last White House I sort of took it
    upon myself, which is where I met a few of our Governors, who
    are now here, to work closely and in concert and aligned with
    both Republican and Democrat leaders from the states.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. I really appreciate that. We
    have 7 minutes, so I am going to go a little quicker here.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Klobuchar. I will note that just yesterday the
    Administration announced they will halt external public health
    communications from the CDC on these avian flu, animal
    diseases, and these important announcements have helped keep
    producers up-to-date with the latest information on disease
    spread, health of workers. While I know that was not under the
    USDA, I just urge you to talk to them about that. We are
    concerned.
        Biofuels--and I appreciated our discussion on that--while
    you served as the CEO of the Texas Public Policy Foundation,
    your organization was often critical on biofuels, including
    ethanol. As you know, we have worked really hard to make this
    so we do not just have one fuel, that we have options here,
    including with Senator Ernst and Senator Fischer and Senator
    Grassley, Senator Thune, many others.
        What role do you believe biofuels play in our domestic
    energy production? How will you continue to promote the
    production of these fuels as Secretary?
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, and I appreciate you bringing that
    up. It is my understanding that those reports were written over
    a decade ago. I have not seen anything more recent. Texas
    Public Policy Foundation puts out almost 900 to 1,000 pieces of
    content a year. I did not author that specific piece.
        To be clear, there is no doubt, coming from Texas, I was a
    massive defender of fossil fuels and the importance of fossil
    fuels in the energy independence and energy dominance
    narrative. Clearly I have spoken with so many of you on both
    sides of the aisle on this issue.
        I will be a Secretary for all agriculture. It is really
    important to me that we continue to defend and elevate and
    honor all sources of fuel. My former boss and current boss, in
    his current Energy Dominance Plan, included biofuels as an
    important piece of his agenda. I really look forward to
    continuing that.
        Senator Klobuchar. I know your family, based on the forms--
    I appreciate you getting us those forms--that your family has
    significant financial interests in the oil industry. Will these
    interests motivate decisions you make at the Department,
    especially when they impact your family's financial holdings?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I can promise you this, and you and I
    have met a few times through the years, and have more in-depth
    discussions, but not as many as I would like. Hopefully a lot
    more in the future. I can promise you this. Anyone that has
    ever worked with me will tell you, even to the detriment of
    organizations I have run, detriment financially, to my
    potential family, that I have never, not ever, made a decision
    based on financial interest, ever. That certainly will not
    begin now.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. You discussed briefly with
    Senator Boozman the export markets. I also appreciated you
    mentioned that in your long-term focus on exports. As you know,
    during the first Trump administration we heard resounding calls
    from farmers that they want trade, not aid--those were exact
    words, I am remembering. They want to grow their market and not
    just get government payment.
        We worked hard on this Committee to help farmers build
    markets here and abroad. Senator Hoeven and I have set up a
    Rural Export Center, in fact. Ms. Rollins, how would you work
    with President Trump, the Office of the U.S. Trade Rep, and
    others within the Administration to ensure that they understand
    the effects of potential retaliatory tariffs on American
    farmers, and how will you help them manage this risk, beyond
    just getting extra payments to make up for it. Will you be a
    voice to make sure people understand the importance of exports
    for rural America? It is not just farming. It is also
    manufacturing and the like.
        Ms. Rollins. No, that is correct. The, I believe,
    extraordinary value that I potentially bring to this table is
    having served in the last White House for three years, right
    alongside President Trump. I believe I may be the most well-
    versed in how the interagency process works, of all the
    Cabinet, of how the interagency process works, of how the
    discussions are handled, of what the Oval Office meetings look
    like, and how to ensure that at every corner that my team, that
    our community, that what we all represent together, is at the
    table, fighting for what we believe is necessary for these
    communities.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. I have some important
    questions for the second round here on conservation and
    nutrition, and I know my colleagues will be asking them, as
    well. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator McConnell.
        Senator McConnell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Congratulations
    on your nomination, and I appreciate you coming by the office.
    I had a chance to tell you then that Kentucky agriculture is a
    little different. We have 75,000 farms, but most of them are
    small. We are also the number one beef cattle state east of the
    Mississippi. People do not generally associate Kentucky with
    that.
        I want to echo what others here have said about trade. I
    went over to the trade representative on the floor of the
    House--we were there for the big speech--and introduced myself,
    and I said, ``Do you have anything to do?'' She basically did
    not have an answer.
        It seems to me that trade has sort of become a word, for a
    lot of Americans, that implies exportation of jobs. In
    Kentucky, we think of trade as exportation of products. It is
    an extremely important part of what we do.
        I think both of the candidates in the last election sort of
    shied away from this issue. As others have said, give us some
    hope that maybe we could get back in the trade business. We
    would need trade promotion authority, which we currently do not
    have. I would be interested in your thoughts further about
    this.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, thank you, Senator McConnell, and it was
    an honor to be in your office to talk a little bit about
    Kentucky bourbon and a few other important things. It is the
    first time I have ever heard, I think, anyone say that
    President Trump has shied away from anything. I do not
    specifically have a recall of anything specific about him not
    talking about trade, other than perhaps to your point that our
    country, and especially our ag community, is in a tough spot
    right now with regards to exports and moving our products out.
    I know that the USMCA is back up for negotiation, along with
    other trade agreements.
        Here is what I am very encouraged about, Senator, and I
    hope it perhaps gives you some encouragement, as well. In my
    now almost nine years, maybe eight years, with President Trump,
    at the end of the day we all know him to be the consummate deal
    maker. I believe that that skill and that intense focus on
    making deals, for his people, not only for America but for the
    ag community that supported him at 90 percent, since really the
    very, very beginning, I think 338 counties out of 344
    agriculture counties voted for him. He knows that these are the
    people that had been with him the longest.
        I sincerely believe that if I do my job, and in working
    with all of you to ensure that the White House and that our
    partners across the agencies have all of the data that they
    need, while at the same time we are working across the world to
    bring in new trade partners, to expand access for new trade
    products and for all, whether it is the specialty crops or the
    row crops or the livestock industry, I believe, as the
    President mentioned in his inaugural address, that we are
    embarking on a Golden Age, and I also believe this is going to
    be a very, very big part of that.
        Senator McConnell. Okay. I want to shift to something
    Kentucky-specific that we discussed in the office. I wanted to
    bring it up again. Back in 2020, through the appropriations
    process, I managed to allocate $65 million for an agricultural
    research service lab at the Kentucky College of Agriculture.
    That was four or five years ago. Nothing has happened yet.
        What did happen? Well, there were a number of different
    regulatory trip wires that got injected into the process. In
    trying to meet those regulatory trip wires slowed everything
    down, everything down, everything down. I want to see
    construction begin. The money is there. What can you tell me,
    to give me hope?
        Ms. Rollins. We did discuss this, and again, another
    passion of mine, that has been mentioned, is my love for Texas
    A&M and the Ag School and the research facilities. I am really
    excited to get knee-deep, waist-deep, neck-deep in these
    facilities across the country. I know we also had discussions
    with some of the others Senators on this Committee that they
    have some similar concerns with some different facilities that
    they would like to see move a lot more quickly.
        Senator McConnell, I commit to you that we will immediately
    begin digging in on what is happening. A big part of my
    portfolio in the last administration was the President's
    deregulation agenda and understanding how certain regulations
    and rules hampered important projects for moving forward and
    opening up markets, et cetera.
        I actually believe that with the right team in place, and
    with your quick confirmation of some of those under
    secretaries, that we will be able to dig in, figure out what is
    happening, work with you and others from Kentucky to figure out
    what is going on and figure out how to move this forward.
        Senator McConnell. As you say, the previous administration
    was big on regulations, across the board. I think they all
    ought to be looked at in terms of the impact on the economy,
    and I think that is what the new administration intends to do.
    Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator. I agree with that and look
    forward to working with you and others on that.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Bennet.
        Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to
    thank you and the Ranking Member for your opening statements.
    Both of you together, I think, captured the spirit of what this
    Committee is supposed to be about in a Congress where we have
    not worked well together. I just want to say how much I
    appreciate your leadership today, the two of you. Thanks also
    for mentioning Chairwoman Stabenow, who did a great job here
    for a long period of time.
        Ms. Rollins, congratulations to you. You mentioned in your
    answer just now to Senator McConnell--this is actually not a
    question that I was going to ask, but since you mentioned it to
    him, you said we all recognize agriculture is in a tough place
    when it comes to exports. We do all recognize that. Could you
    elaborate more on that? We would love to hear your perspective
    on the hole that many of us feel that we are in right now, as
    we get ready to think about what the trade policies are going
    to be of this Administration and of the country.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator Bennet, of course, and
    loved our conversation about your beautiful Colorado.
        Senator Bennet. Thank you. Come any time.
        Ms. Rollins. I would welcome that. We do spend some time
    there in the summers, as good Texans do, getting out of the
    heat. I will look forward to seeing you next time.
        In the last handful of years we have gone from not having a
    trade deficit in our agricultural communities to having a $45
    billion trade deficit. Of course, that has led to many
    challenges, including food inflation. I know when I have heard
    President Trump talk about his priorities, the first is the
    border, which I am guessing we will get into at some point, but
    second was food inflation.
        There are many tools in our toolkit, both through USDA and
    expanding markets, which are all intertwined, to begin
    immediately to work to bring that deficit down, and hopefully
    soon get it to zero. My commitment is to----
        Senator Bennet. I would say, though----
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Bennet [continuing]. that deficit, we know, is
    being caused by a strong dollar. It is being caused by
    competition from Brazil. It is being caused by limitations on
    our beef supply. It is being caused by prices that are going
    up. I mean, I do not think these particularly are failures in
    trade policy. It is making it harder for us to export, which is
    what Senator McConnell's concern was, which I share.
        I think that all of us understand it. Actually, I will say
    there are many ways in which I am sympathetic to some of the
    trade policies that President Trump is trying to advocate for.
    Agriculture is already in a tough spot for those reasons, I
    think, largely, and we do not want it to be in a tougher spot
    as a result of what happens here. I think when you were in my
    office you talked a little bit--and this is going to be the
    easiest question that you get, and I hope you only take 15
    seconds to answer so I can go on to the next----
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Bennet [continuing]. which is, you know, what is
    your responsibility as the Secretary of Agriculture to go into
    the Oval Office and say, ``You have not thought through the
    unintended consequences that are going to flow to American
    agriculture if you pursue these trade policies?''
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, in 15 seconds my role is to defend,
    to honor, to elevate our entire agriculture community, in the
    Oval Office, around the table, through the interagency process,
    and to ensure that every decision that is made in the coming
    four years has that front of mind as those decisions are being
    made.
        Senator Bennet. I agree also with what Senator Klobuchar
    said, as we have heard from our farmers and ranchers over and
    over again, is they want to be able to do the work. They want
    to be able to export. They do not want to solve this problem by
    getting aid to make up for what they should have been able to
    send to Asia and other kinds of places. The only growth that my
    farmers and ranchers can see in the foreseeable future, which
    is to say their lifetimes, is by growing our exports of
    agriculture.
        I appreciate your understanding that----
        Ms. Rollins. I agree.
        Senator Bennet [continuing]. and we are counting on you, if
    you are in this job, to be that advocate.
        We also had the chance, when you were in my office, to talk
    a little bit about something that I have focused on here the
    entire time I have been on this Committee, which is the state
    of our national forests throughout the American West. As you
    know, and I know you know this, they are incredibly important
    to us because every single community that we have, no matter
    how big or no matter how small, every single farm and ranch
    that we have is downstream from these snowpacks and downstream
    from these national forests. The condition of these national
    forests--and they are national forests for a reason, you know,
    they are national forests--the condition is just untenable and
    dangerous.
        I told Chuck Schumer, he does not necessarily agree with
    me, but I have told him over and over again that these forests
    are more important infrastructure from our perspective than the
    Lincoln Tunnel is to New York. If the Lincoln Tunnel is closed,
    there are other things you can do. He may not agree with that.
        If we lose our water, we lose everything in the West.
    Coloradans are watching what is going on now in California,
    Senator Schiff, with broken hearts because of what is happening
    there. We have seen it happen at a much smaller scale, but
    still universal in our state with things like the Marshall
    Fire.
        I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the
    importance of these national forests, how you think about the
    stewardship, whether or not we should be considering the fact
    that if we wait to fight these fires, it costs $50,000 an acre
    to fight them, whereas if we do the work on the front end,
    putting people to work in our national forests, it can cost
    $1,400 an acre to do it. I would love to hear your perspective
    on this.
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I am so glad you brought this up, and
    I believe--and Senator Schiff and I spoke about this,
    obviously, in his office a week or two ago, as they were facing
    an unimaginable experience in California. I am really excited
    to tackle this problem. I do not pretend to even know the
    beginnings of it. I have just started studying it. It seems to
    me, and after speaking with you and others on the Committee and
    beginning to learn, first of all, I think we have a great Under
    Secretary identified and announced, the quicker we can get him
    confirmed, the quicker we can really begin this hard work
    ahead.
        My husband's family owns a little cabin right on the edge
    of a national forest in Gunnison, Colorado, so I, too, have
    spent about the last 25 years enjoying the national forests and
    the extraordinary beauty that they bring to our people.
        The water is a massive issue, and you and I talked about
    that. Forty million people depend on the water that is under
    your land in Colorado. I do believe, and people call me a
    pathological optimist, but maybe the pathological optimist in
    me sincerely believes that we can fix this, and we can fix it
    fairly quickly, with the right team in place, and working with
    all of you who have watched it, been frustrated by it, and want
    an answer.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to
    thank, or express to both you and to the Ranking Member that I
    think we are fortunate to have both of you in the role of
    Chairman and Ranking Member. We have worked on many things in
    the past together, and I very much look forward to working with
    you in the future. Again, I feel this Committee is fortunate to
    have both of you in these roles. Welcome.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Hoeven. Ms. Rollins, good to see you again. Thanks
    for coming to visit at the office. You have an awesome family.
        Ms. Rollins. The best. The best.
        Senator Hoeven. Yes, so thanks, of course, for your husband
    being here, and your kids. Of course, no one will ever love you
    the way your mom does.
        Ms. Rollins. That is true.
        Senator Hoeven. Pretty awesome having Mom.
        Ms. Rollins. She is missing an important vote in Texas
    today to be here to sit behind me, so I am really grateful,
    really grateful.
        Senator Hoeven. It is great. You have a fantastic family.
    We mentioned all this talk about A&M. Did I tell you, when we
    talked, that my wife went to UT? I do not know if I did or not.
        Ms. Rollins. We did, and I had my sincerest condolences.
        Senator Hoeven. Yes, yes. That is kind of fun. I am wearing
    my North Dakota State University tie today, home of the Mighty
    Bison. I know we talked about them. We do have an incredible
    School of Agriculture at North Dakota State University.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, you do.
        Senator Hoeven. We are doing some awesome things. We have a
    project called Grand Farm. Sonny Perdue came out and actually
    cut the ribbon on it. We have a partnership between ARS, NDSU,
    and Grand Farm on precision agriculture that is incredible. I
    am going to invite you to come out to our state right away and
    see what we are doing. Would you commit to coming out and
    seeing what we have and meeting our folks?
        Ms. Rollins. I would love to come visit. I have said, I
    think it has actually been reported in the press that if you
    can get me on a horse, I would love to ride a horse, as we are
    all working on all of these issues across the states, and I
    really look forward to that--only if you ride with me, though.
        Senator Hoeven. Oh, absolutely. We will absolutely ride.
    One of my sisters raced barrels. My job was just to get the
    horses in the trailer, which, as you know, is sometimes----
        Ms. Rollins. Harder than racing barrels, yes.
        Senator Hoeven [continuing]. sometimes easy and sometimes
    not, depending on the horse. We will do it.
        Ms. Rollins. That sounds great.
        Senator Hoeven. I am so glad to hear that. Of course, I
    love your background in ranching. My grandfather was a cattle
    rancher, back in the good old days when he raised Hereford
    instead of all the Angus.
        Ms. Rollins. Love Herefords.
        Senator Hoeven. Farm bill. Will you commit to work with us
    to get a farm bill? It is so incredibly important, in
    agriculture, as you know, we have a system of family based
    farmers and ranchers across this country. Sixteen million
    people involved in agriculture in some way, shape, or form.
    Versus look at all these other industries that are
    concentrated.
        We have this system of family based farmers and ranchers,
    businesses, small businesses. What they produce for every
    single American, every single day, is the highest quality,
    lowest cost food supply in the world. Americans have better
    choices, better quality, and spend less of their budget on food
    than almost any other developed country. That is what we have
    because we have good farm policy. That means affordable crop
    insurance, and that means a countercyclical safety net that
    works, keeping the farm in the farm bill.
        Will you commit to help us get that--we are past due. We
    need to get it done. Will you commit to help us get it done,
    and get it done in the way I described?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir, and again, it may be the
    pathological optimist in me, but I have talked to both sides of
    the aisle, the complexity, the challenges in the last year or
    so of reauthorizing it. I hope that I can be a force
    multiplier, and I hope what I bring to the table is the
    opportunity to work alongside both sides to get us where we
    need to be for our farmers and ranchers, and some security,
    some understanding that the net is there, and that the loans
    are there, and that the insurance is there, and that they can
    continue to be the best producers in the world for the world
    food supply.
        I really look forward to that, obviously providing you the
    technical assistance that you need to be able to do your job,
    but also, if asked or if called, to help in any other way I can
    to get this done.
        Senator Hoeven. I think your relationship with President
    Trump is going to be incredibly important in that effort. We
    already saw it as we worked on the disaster piece that we
    included with the extension of the farm bill. Will you commit
    to work closely not only with this Committee but with our Ag
    Approps Committee, as we administer that emergency assistance?
        Ms. Rollins. One hundred percent yes. Whether that is at
    two in the morning, four in the morning, midnight, I am always
    available and will work harder than anyone to ensure that you
    all have everything you need across the Capital.
        Senator Hoeven. The President's help there was important,
    and I want----
        Ms. Rollins. Indeed.
        Senator Hoeven [continuing]. that acknowledged on the
    record. Also, tariffs. We went through this, you know, in
    President Trump's first term. I worked with Sonny Perdue when
    China targeted our farmers and ranchers. We want markets. Talk
    for a minute about--I mean, we look at tariffs as a way to get
    markets for our farmers and ranchers, so that they can compete
    on a level playing field. We did have to do the MFP. We worked
    with Sonny to do that last time. Give me your thoughts on how
    we are going to approach this.
        Ms. Rollins. As I mentioned, when I got the call about this
    particular position from the President, we were driving our
    motor home across Mississippi, on our way to Auburn for the
    Texas A&M-Auburn Alabama game. I clearly was not expecting a
    call from the President at that moment. When it came, and when
    we talked about this job, I celebrated, prayed with my family,
    and then immediately began understanding what happened last
    time, and ensuring that we have the right team on the field
    that can immediately execute to ensure that we are solving for
    these major challenges.
        The Under Secretary that will be coming before you,
    hopefully very quickly, Mr. Chairman, helped run that program
    under Sonny Perdue. The staff that he is building out, if
    confirmed, is the same team that did it before, with the idea
    that we cannot reinvent the wheel. We have got to be able to
    move quickly.
        Senator Hoeven. That is good to hear because we did have to
    do some things legislatively to get it rocking and rolling, and
    we did work with Fortis and the other guys. We look forward to
    working with them again, so that whether it is China or anybody
    else knows we are going to defend our guys, and we are going to
    make them play fair. Because on a level playing field, our
    farmers and ranchers outcompete anybody in the world.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
        Senator Hoeven. On just a couple of others, one is the
    sugar industry is huge in my state. That involves trade very
    direct, as you know. Will you commit to work with me on that
    industry? Senator Klobuchar also shares that same concern, I
    think.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. In fact, Senator Smith and I
    discussed it, as well, when I met with her.
        Senator Hoeven. Absolutely, Senator Smith.
        Ms. Rollins. I know. Do not leave out Senator Smith, my
    Minnesota Senators.
        Senator Hoeven. I want to emphasize Senator Smith shares
    that concern.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, yes. Thank you, Senator. Yes, 100
    percent. Any of these industries, I am here and will always be
    available.
        Senator Hoeven. We have also worked with your potential
    Deputy Secretary, as well. I want your commitment, both on
    behalf of yourself and him, that you will work with us on
    access on the forest lands, which as you know, we have ag and
    many other interests out there, on these forests, on the
    national grasslands. Access is an issue. We need your help.
    Will you commit to help us on that?
        Ms. Rollins. One hundred percent.
        Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Klobuchar. [Presiding]. Thank you very much, Ms.
    Rollins. Senator Boozman had to go vote. You noted, which I
    appreciate, we have not one but two Minnesota Senators. We are
    blessed to have Senator Smith with us. Senator Smith.
        Senator Smith. Thank you so much, Ranking Member. I want to
    just say I share my congratulations to you and to Chair Boozman
    for leading this Committee. I love serving on this Committee. I
    love the bipartisan spirit that we have, and I even love
    Senator Hoeven, who always forgets that I care about sugar in
    Minnesota.
        Ms. Rollins. She even loves you, Senator Hoeven.
        Senator Smith. Welcome to you and your family. I can see
    how proud your family is of you, and I appreciated very much
    our conversation in my office. I also appreciate your Minnesota
    roots and connection in Clear Lake, Minnesota, so thanks for
    that.
        We have lots to talk about, and I am going to get right to
    it. I wanted to start out by just raising the issue of ethanol
    and sugar, and I am so glad that Senator Klobuchar and Senator
    Hoeven have touched on those two issues, both of which are
    vitally important to Minnesota agriculture.
        You know, ethanol is home-grown energy. It is a major
    economic driver in Minnesota, $7 billion to our economy.
    Similarly, the national sugar program supports more than
    151,000 jobs in our country, and contributes $23 billion a year
    to the U.S. economy, and it is run with zero cost to U.S.
    taxpayers. I appreciate your commitment to work with us on
    those two important programs.
        Let's turn to rural development. You come from a small
    town, and I represent a state filled with small towns and rural
    places, places that are full of energy and creativity and
    innovation and talent. I think we also know that small towns
    and rural communities face unique challenges. I sometimes think
    that people forget that the rural development side of the USDA
    is really important. That portfolio is very important.
        I will be honest. I am fearful that the work done there,
    those efforts, not being well understood, could become the
    target for budget cutting. I also know that American farmers
    and ranchers really trust the USDA on those issues. They do not
    want to see those programs farmed out to other agencies, where
    we are all worried that they would just get less attention. We
    talked about this when you were in my office, and I appreciate
    that.
        Let's dive in on a couple of issues, two big rural
    development issues: housing and childcare.
        We know we have a serious shortage of affordable housing in
    rural communities. These are places where our elders and folks
    that live on fixed incomes, people who make our food system
    work, it is where they live. For decades, the Rural Housing
    Service at the USDA has helped in those communities, and
    everyone agrees it needs to be modernized and updated.
        Last Congress, Senator Rounds and I introduced the Rural
    Housing Service Reform Act to do that. We had 14 bipartisan co-
    sponsors.
        I want to ask you first, Ms. Rollins, can you talk a bit
    about your vision for how the USDA can engage on rural housing,
    and will you work with me on rural housing service reform, as
    we are describing in our bill?
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator Smith, and I think of all
    of the portfolios, if confirmed, that I am taking on, the one
    that excites me the most is the opportunity to put forward a
    vision and build a program around revivifying, restoring, and
    bringing back rural America. Clearly, the Federal Government
    itself cannot do that, or there are going to be many, many
    factors. The idea that we, at USDA, can lead that effort, that
    it is not just about elevating our farmers and ensuring our
    ranchers are protected, and that USDA is doing everything they
    can to defend them. It is an all approach. It is housing. It is
    childcare. It is education. It is all of the above.
        One of the things I think I bring to the table, and I,
    Senator Smith, you and I, and even Senator Klobuchar, discussed
    this, in the last White House I led the effort called the White
    House Opportunity and Revitalization Council. I say I led it.
    We hired Scott Turner to lead it, who is now President Trump's
    housing nominee. You all, if you have not met him, will love
    meeting him, former NFL player, and just a pastor and a
    visionary.
        In that effort we were really focused on urban communities
    and the disadvantaged communities within those urban
    communities. Over the course of many months, across the
    agencies, across the government under President Trump, we
    focused on the myriad of programs that were duplicative, that
    tried to serve the same constituency, that sometimes were fine
    but other times was not a great use of dollars.
        Having an all-of-government approach like that, where we
    can really understand what role HHS plays, what role housing
    plays, and doing it quickly, so we can begin to roll it out.
        A final thing I will say, and I know, Senator, you have got
    one more question. America at 250, which America turns 250 next
    year, is going to be an incredible opportunity for us to take
    this message to every corner of rural America, and to really
    get people focused on it.
        Senator Smith. I appreciate that very much, and I think we
    do need to bring that message. We also need to make sure that
    we are supporting, and improving wherever we can, those rural
    development programs at USDA, and not throwing them under the
    bus, because I can tell you that they are counted on by folks
    in rural communities. I hope that we will be able to work
    together on that.
        Ms. Rollins. I look forward to it.
        Senator Smith. Ms. Rollins, I want to just touch, in the
    time that I have left, on the nutrition programs at USDA. You
    know, nutrition programs are foundational for healthy
    Americans. Two-thirds of SNAP recipients are families with
    children, one-third are families with older adults or people
    with disabilities. SNAP is a rural development tool.
        In Minnesota, rural communities have the highest food
    insecurity in the whole state, and in this country, nine out of
    ten countries with the highest food insecurity rates are rural.
        Ms. Rollins, can you talk to me about how you see the rules
    around SNAP? Let's start with what you think about work
    requirements for SNAP.
        Ms. Rollins. Well, first, I understand this is an
    incredibly important issue to everyone on the Committee. My
    commitment is to ensure that we have the data, the research,
    and the understanding of this program, to make sure that we are
    serving those that need it. As I mentioned earlier, raised by a
    single mom in a rural community with two little sisters, she
    worked at the library, she made $5 an hour. I understand it.
        Senator Smith. Is it your view that we need to adjust or
    change the work requirements for SNAP?
        Ms. Rollins. It probably will be no surprise to everyone on
    this Committee, both Republican and Democrat, and through a
    course of 20 years of being a policy leader, that I do believe
    in work requirements. I do think they are important. I do
    think--and I do not fully understand, but plan to get more in
    the weeds on this, if confirmed--and working with all of you to
    make sure that your concerns are part of that education process
    for me.
        Senator Smith. My view, and, in fact, I think this is the
    official view of the USDA, is that SNAP should ensure that no
    one fears going hungry in this country, but also that it
    reflects the importance of work and responsibility in this
    country. That is why SNAP has extensive work requirements in
    place. Folks that are not required to work under SNAP, a very
    small number, it is because they are taking care of a child or
    an incapacitated person, because they are participating in an
    alcohol or a drug treatment program, because they are already
    working under some other program.
        I ask you to consider this as you look at this, because
    again, I do not think that this is a good place to be looking
    for extra dollars when we have so many people that are
    struggling with food insecurity, even though they are working
    one or maybe two or three jobs.
        Thank you. I know I am out of time.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator. I commit to working with
    you, and I look forward to it.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Smith. Next
    up, Senator Ernst, our neighbor to the south.
        Senator Ernst. Yes, thank you to our Ranking Member, Amy
    Klobuchar, and a great neighbor, as has been mentioned many
    times over, between Minnesota and Iowa. Amy has worked with me
    on so many different agriculture-and biofuel-related issues. I
    am excited to work with you, Senator Klobuchar, you and
    Chairman Boozman, as we work on a 5-year farm bill. It is very
    important that we get that done, and it is something that I
    hear continuously from Iowans as I travel all 99 counties in my
    great state.
        Of course, to you, Mrs. Brooke Rollins, thank you so much
    for being here today, and thank you for bringing your friends
    and family. I know how important that support is, and I am
    excited to see you as our nominee for Secretary of Agriculture.
    I know you are an ag girl at heart. We have talked about it at
    length. I truly am too, and I do have full confidence in your
    ability to lead this Department, full faith and confidence in
    this role.
        Ms. Rollins, something that you and I talked about, I will
    start with this one, we talked about it at length, is telework.
    I know that we must address some of the work policies for
    federal employees at the Department of Agriculture. As you
    know, the GAO reported USDA's headquarters has a space
    utilization rate at just 11 percent--11 percent. I have even
    received whistleblower letters from employees describing the
    building as a ghost town.
        Last year I addressed this exact issue with then-Secretary
    Tom Vilsack, and was met with very strong opposition. Rather
    than provide any evidence to dispute the GAO's numbers, and
    even after repeatedly following up with his staff, he refused
    to give me specific in-office numbers or building utilization
    data. In stark contrast, President Trump acted immediately to
    get our federal workforce back to actually working for the
    American people.
        Ms. Rollins, in line with these efforts, what is your plan
    to achieve the 60 percent utilization goal for your
    headquarters buildings, which has been set by Congress? Second,
    will you commit to requiring each USDA employee to show up to
    the office?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator Ernst, thank you, and I really loved
    our time. We first started talking about this way before even
    the election.
        Senator Ernst. Way back.
        Ms. Rollins. I love your intense focus on ensuring that
    those who are hired and paid by taxpayer dollars are fully
    committed to serve in the most effective way, wherever and for
    whomever they work. That is, I believe, being in an office
    almost every single time. It is not my belief alone. Obviously,
    President Trump has been talking about this. I believe there
    was even an executive order in the last day or two, calling for
    the same.
        I do look forward to getting into the office, hopefully
    very soon, and really working to effectuate the most effective
    workforce that the United States Department of Agriculture has
    ever had in the history of this country, and so doing ensuring
    that they are all in the office to make that happen.
        Senator Ernst. Wonderful. Thank you for that commitment.
        Another area that has been brought up quite frequently here
    on the dais, and one that will not be a surprise to you, but
    another area that is critically important for my Iowa farmers
    is biofuels. It is a key source of demand for our corn and our
    soybeans.
        During the Biden administration, this industry really did
    suffer from deflated renewable, or the RVOs. The last-minute
    announcements on sales of E-15 and the lack of clear tax policy
    guidance on the 45Z Clean Fuel Production Credit, which is
    something that Roger Marshall, Senator Marshall of Kansas, and
    I were just discussing. Many of these moves have forced plants
    to idle or stop production completely. This is a huge issue for
    us. This is threatening hundreds of rural jobs and squeezing
    grain prices in the process.
        I do applaud President Trump for making E15 a priority. He
    did have an executive order on that. I do look forward to
    securing a permanent fix in law.
        We will need an all-hands-on-deck approach for crafting
    future RVOs that reflect production capacity and guidance on
    the 45Z that will support American farmers.
        Ms. Rollins, the USDA has a very big role to play when
    crafting these policies. As Secretary, will you commit to
    supporting biofuels and working with me to provide certainty
    for our farmers and the entire renewable fuel industry?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, Senator, and I really look forward to
    that. I think there is no question where President Trump stands
    on this. I believe, if memory serves me correct, there was even
    an executive order on this in the last administration. It did
    not come out of Domestic Policy. It came out of Larry Kudlow's
    NEC, so I did not work on that directly. I know the courts, I
    believe, overturned it and correctly stated that the Congress
    should take that up.
        I really look forward to working with you, but also with my
    friend, Lee Zeldin, if confirmed, over at EPA, on a piece of
    this, on the 45Z, with my friend, Scott Bessent over at
    Treasury. I think that you all will find, and hopefully be
    encouraged, that the Cabinet, if confirmed, we all know each
    other, are friends, many of us are like family, and we really,
    really are looking forward to working together on these cross-
    agency issues, like the ones that you have just outlined.
        Senator Ernst. That is wonderful. I really appreciate that
    because in the last administration I have to say that in
    conversations with the leaders at all of those agencies we were
    really blown off and left swinging in the breeze. I anticipate
    that President Trump will want to do right by our farmers and
    those that are producing renewable fuels.
        Another issue, just very quickly, Ms. Rollins, top of mind
    for Iowa's ag community is Proposition 12. We are the number
    one hog producer in the United States, number one hog producing
    state. California's ballot initiative has been very devastating
    for our family farms and is only fueling market consolidation
    of pork producers.
        Just ultimately what we would like to do is move on
    legislation to craft a way forward so that we do not have
    states telling our producers how they can raise their
    livestock. Very important to us.
        Ms. Rollins, in line with President Trump's priority to
    lower food costs for American families, will you commit to
    working with this Committee to reverse Proposition 12?
        Ms. Rollins. Proposition 12--and I have just, in the last
    few months, become very acquainted with it--you know, the idea
    that one state--and listen, I am a federalism believer. I
    believe in the founders' vision of the Tenth Amendment and the
    Government closest to the people is the Government that should
    be most active under that Tenth Amendment.
        This particular issue, I believe from even a bipartisan
    perspective, there is no doubt that it is not just affecting
    California. It is affecting multitudes of other states,
    multitudes of other parts of the ag community, including our
    hog family farms. Iowa, but many other states, have been really
    affected by this, as well. I know that you guys, if you already
    have a bill filed, you are soon to file one, legislation has
    been drafted.
        Yes, I commit to working with you on that and look forward
    to it.
        Senator Ernst. Excellent. Thank you, Ms. Rollins, and I
    look forward to hosting you in Iowa on an ag and biofuels tour,
    and I would welcome your family, as well. Thank you very much,
    and I yield back.
        Chairman Boozman. [Presiding]. Senator Durbin.
        Senator Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mrs.
    Rollins, I took your advice. When we met yesterday you told me
    about your mother's agenda as a Texas State Representative on
    the issue of PFAS, and I should make a point of meeting her.
    She was the first person I met in the room today.
        Ms. Rollins. She is special, isn't she, Senator?
        Senator Durbin. Sure is, and it looks like we are going to
    have a possibility of a real bipartisan state-federal alliance
    on an issue important to everybody. I am glad she came, and I
    am glad I had a chance to meet her.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Durbin. We talked about a lot of things yesterday,
    and I want to talk about one that is in the headlines this
    morning and will be for a long time, the mass deportation of
    undocumented people from the United States. I mentioned to you
    that I had been surprised by the response I received among
    farmers and ranchers and people involved in agriculture when it
    comes to the immigration issue. I told you about the dairy
    farmer who said, ``Senator Durbin, we're going to close down
    our dairy operation after three generations in our family
    because we need immigrant workers for dairy operations in
    Illinois.''
        Another young lady with the Farm Bureau raised her hand and
    said, ``While you're at it, include the orchards. Who's going
    to pick this crop? It isn't the local kids at the high school.
    They won't even man the fruit stand out by the highway, and I
    put an air conditioner in there. I can't get them to come to
    work for me. I need immigrant workers.''
        It turns out that 40 percent of the farm workers in this
    country are undocumented, and you know what that means--they
    are vulnerable to being deported. If they are deported, what
    are the farmers going to do? For a lot of them, and for a lot
    of different industries, immigration is critical.
        Now your organization has said some things, pretty strong
    things, your America First Policy Institute. They have called
    for deportation at a scale that actually matters and massive
    deportation efforts.
        I just need to ask you, what is your policy on immigration?
    We have got to get down to the real world, not the criminals.
    We do not want them, they should not come here, and they should
    not stay. Those who work every single darn day to pick a crop
    that American people are not going to pick themselves, and most
    of them--I should not say most--40 percent are undocumented.
        Can we expect this Administration to be raiding farms and
    going after the immigrant farm workers?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, thank you, and I really was grateful
    for our time yesterday and our time working together in the
    last administration, and I appreciate your kindness. I was a
    little late yesterday. There was some confusion, and you gave
    me a little grace, so I really appreciate that. Yes, Senator
    Lujan, you, as well.
        Listen, the President's vision of a secure border and a
    mass deportation at a scale that matters is something I
    support. I was his Domestic Policy Director in the last White
    House. I have built and led an organization, alongside Chad
    Wolfe, our former Secretary of Homeland Security, at the
    America First Policy Institute.
        I want to be extremely transparent, and I think that you
    deserve that. That is my commitment is to help President Trump
    deploy his agenda in an effective way, while, at the same time,
    defending, as if confirmed Secretary of Agriculture, our
    farmers and ranchers across this country. Having both of those,
    which you may argue is in conflict, but having both of those is
    key priorities.
        My job is to work with, if confirmed, the Secretary of
    Labor, Lori Chavez-DeRemer, from Oregon, but she herself has
    family farms in California and Oregon, to work with her on the
    H-2A program, to also work with all of you, to reform and
    perhaps modernize that H-2A program. I will also say that the
    President has been very clear that this first round will be
    aimed at, as you mentioned, those who have committed crimes and
    are criminals while inside our borders over the last fouryears.
        We will follow the data. We will follow and listen to our
    farmers and ranchers as this is moving. My commitment is to
    work with all of you to work to solve and do everything we can
    to make sure that none of these farms or dairy producers are
    put out of business.
        Senator Durbin. I support your answer. Dangerous people
    should not be here, and if they are here they should be gone,
    period. When we are talking massive deportation we are going
    beyond dangerous criminals. I just wonder if we ought to give
    fair warning to farmers and ranchers across America that if you
    have immigrant labor you can expect federal agents to come and
    search your property. Is that in the future for farmers and
    ranchers under the mass deportation plan?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, I have not been involved in that, the
    President's current plan. I cannot answer that one way or the
    other. I do know that my job is to ensure that as those
    conversations are ongoing, if confirmed, that I am part of that
    data collection and understanding, and that the President
    understands what this means to our agriculture community. I
    believe, sincerely, that he will execute his agenda that he has
    promised the American people, but that we will never forget our
    ag community in so doing.
        Senator Durbin. Well, I certainly hope so, because these
    men and women in immigrant labor on our farms are doing back-
    breaking work every single damn day, and they have done it for
    years, and many of them, 40 percent of them, are undocumented.
    If they are going to be deported then we are going to see a lot
    fewer fruits and vegetables that we take for granted every time
    we go into the store. I think that is part of the reality.
        When it comes to the SNAP program, the work requirement and
    the asset requirements, do you think we ought to apply work and
    asset requirements to other agricultural programs?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator Durbin, I look forward to learning
    more about those. I have actually spent most of my time on SNAP
    in preparing for this hearing. I am obviously aware there are
    16 other nutrition programs across the United States Department
    of Agriculture. I look forward to learning more about all of
    those, meeting with those that are running them, even looking
    across the agencies to see whom else is working on these
    projects, and ensuring that they are the most effective for
    those who need them but also the most efficient for the
    taxpayer.
        Senator Durbin. I am going to ask one last question.
    Project 2025, you are familiar with, calls for capping crop
    insurance payouts to $40,000 per farmer and terminating
    longtime USDA export promotion programs. What is your position
    on this Project 2025 proposal?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, the America First Policy Institute was
    not involved at all in Project 2025. We were in no meetings. We
    were not part of any policy process and had nothing to do with
    it. I am sorry, I do not know that I can answer that
    specifically.
        I will say that my role is to defend farmers and ranchers
    in our ag communities, in our rural communities, with
    everything I have. As I am looking at all of these programs,
    aside from anything that other think tanks put together, my
    commitment is to ensure that we follow the data and protect our
    ag community.
        Senator Durbin. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Hyde-Smith.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
    congratulations to our nominee. I am so proud of you and so
    excited to get to work with you. I think it is really neat that
    you got the call from President Trump, and I believe you were
    in Newton, Mississippi.
        Ms. Rollins. Newton, Mississippi, in the Walmart parking
    lot. That is when the call came.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. When you got the call on your way to
    the Auburn game, and I believe that went into three overtimes,
    if I remember correctly.
        Ms. Rollins. It did, and the Aggies once again ran out of
    time, which is our November sort of game plan these days.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Well, that was a super exciting day----
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Hyde-Smith [continuing]. for sure, no doubt. It was
    so nice to get to meet Mark out at the National Finals Rodeo.
    Thank you for accepting the invitation to come there.
        I want to highlight two important things before diving into
    the questions, and that is the supplemental that was passed
    before Christmas. I just want to thank Senator Boozman, and I
    want to thank Senator Collins on how incredibly important that
    was, to get that into that bill, that $10 billion that will
    make a total difference in the survival of so many producers
    throughout the nation. Thank you for that. That certainly did
    not go unnoticed by the ag world.
        I wanted to talk to you about catfish. Mississippi is the
    top producing state of catfish, our farm-raised catfish, and it
    is a huge contributor to our rural economy throughout the
    state. Our neighbors in Arkansas and Alabama are right there
    with us. Unfortunately the foreign catfish imports, primarily
    Vietnam and China, have really hurt the industry. My greatest
    concern--now that imports are being inspected by USDA's Food
    Safety and Inspection Service, which is charged with inspecting
    all those imported catfish--I have been very concerned about
    how that has been implemented. FSIS is far more rigorous than
    the Food and Drug Administration inspection, but the inspection
    has not been at the top of the priority list for the last
    administration. That made a big, huge difference because there
    could be dangerous carcinogens in those imports, many elements
    that are harmful to human consumption that were getting by and
    not inspected.
        If confirmed, will you work to ensure that FSIS tightens
    its imported catfish inspection responsibilities?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, ma'am. I really look forward to all
    aspects of the United States Department of Agriculture, but
    have heard from several of you that the inspection part of it
    could be significantly improved. My commitment is to do
    everything I can to do just that.
        We are close to announcing an Under Secretary--I should say
    the President is close to announcing an Under Secretary--in
    that role, and I think everyone will be very pleased when that
    announcement is made, and look forward to hopefully his quick
    confirmation and letting us get to work, Senator.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. Wonderful. I have fought for that for
    years, as we are the top producing state there, and as Ag
    Commissioner in Mississippi.
        I also share your commitment, as you mentioned in your
    testimony, to addressing the H5N1 and the New World screwworm
    outbreaks as high consequence diseases threatening animal
    agriculture. I have gotten several calls lately from producers
    who are very concerned about that. I can remember the avian
    influenza threat getting to Mississippi flocks. That kept me up
    at night. I had plenty of foam, plenty of water on standby,
    that if we had the outbreak we were ready.
        I was also involved in reopening beef export markets after
    BSE, or the mad cow infection. Those markets took over a decade
    to recover. We had countries that did not buy our beef because
    of that for 13 years, until we got that under control.
        While much attention is given to the problem of animal
    disease outbreaks, I want to focus on the key solution that is
    often overlooked, and that is the importance of USDA
    veterinarians. Those are so critical, and despite the hiring
    freeze, those professionals are essential in protecting animal
    and public health and ensuring food security because of these
    outbreaks. The vets are currently managing the H5N1 outbreak by
    testing meat and milk and helping producers with biosecurity
    practices. Unfortunately, USDA has struggled for years with
    inadequate veterinarian staffing, and with the Animal and Plant
    Health Inspection Service, and with APHIS, a problem was made
    worse by a compensation system that the previous Secretary
    described as just uncompetitive in a hearing in last Congress.
        I tried to work with the previous administration to begin
    correcting these serious recruitment and retention problems
    there, but those efforts were pretty much ignored, as well. It
    is just extremely frustrating to know how critical it is to
    make sure we have the safest, cheapest food in the entire
    world, and it takes inspections to do that.
        Hopefully that will be better, and I am going to ask for
    your commitment on that, as it just jeopardizes American
    agriculture competitiveness by putting us at further risk for
    spreading disease. The shortage affects public health and the
    situations we find ourselves in, because we just sit there and
    hope and pray that we do not get a call that there is an
    outbreak of anything.
        The USDA and Office of Personnel Management must address
    these veterinary personnel challenges. My question is, will you
    commit to working with me toward timely and meaningful
    solutions, solutions, of course, that would be in line with the
    President's agenda, regarding these veterinarians we need at
    USDA?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I so look forward to doing that. I am
    not sure if you have heard but Texas A&M has a heck of a good
    veterinary school that I am very familiar with. I especially,
    on this, look forward to that with you. I do think that the
    recruiting piece of this, and you and I working together, and I
    believe Senator Klobuchar may be a co-chair with you on the
    Veterinary Committee here in the Senate, but across the board,
    ensuring that your leadership and my supporting you, if
    confirmed, continues to be a priority, and I really look
    forward to that.
        Senator Hyde-Smith. One quick issue I want to get in, that
    I look forward to working with you on, as well, once confirmed
    We need to address the USDA Packers and Stockyards rules
    concerning poultry. It has really caused some significant cost
    increases to our poultry growers, and it really does not have
    any quantifiable profits. That is another thing that I would
    like to meet with you on is Packers and Stockyards, the law
    that we all live by.
        Thank you so much, and I so look forward to supporting you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator, so much.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Booker.
        Senator Booker. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I am
    excited to be here and excited to have a few moments with you.
    Thank you for coming by my office yesterday. I know I was the
    favorite office you visited, much more than----
        Ms. Rollins. You were the favorite--there were three
    favorites, and you were one of the three.
        Senator Booker. I am glad to hear that. I know you liked my
    visit better than Tommy Tuberville.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Booker. I am going to jump on the moving mom
    bandwagon here, when you told me about the work she did, the
    work on PFAS, God, I hope it foreshadows some of the work we
    can do together. It is a real problem for American farmers, and
    it is something that is really important to me.
        I mentioned to you, when you were with me, that one of the
    biggest problems we have in America is that the biggest
    producers in our country have done well. That is not a problem.
    I love and celebrate American success. We are having a problem
    with the big, big producers, often controlled by multi-national
    corporations, who are doing great, but most of our small
    farmers in America really continue to struggle.
        Since 2017, we have lost over 140,000 farms in our country,
    and since the 1970's, over half a million farms have been lost
    in this country. This loss of family farms has led to awful
    things happening in our rural communities, an exodus of
    residents, jobs, really the hollowing out of rural communities.
    For the farmers who have managed to hang on, times are really
    tough for American farmers. Eighty-eight percent of family
    farmers have second jobs off the farms, and a majority of that
    income utilized by those families is generated from off-farm
    income. Right now the USDA programs are structured in ways that
    serve well the biggest producers but often do not work for
    small and mid-sized family farms.
        I am pushing in the upcoming farm bill to create an Office
    of Small Farms within the USDA that would be charged with
    looking at USDA programs and policies and finding ways to make
    them work for our small farmers. This is a crisis. We are
    losing our heritage. Families that have had farms for five, six
    generations in America are really struggling.
        This is just a yes-or-no question, which I got in private
    and I am hoping to get in public. As Secretary, will you make
    it a priority for the USDA to do a lot more to help small
    farmers?
        Ms. Rollins. One zillion percent yes, which is Aggie math,
    because you can only get to 100 percent yes. One hundred
    percent yes. Senator, we discussed yesterday, for me,
    personally, that is where my heart is and my passion, in
    restoring rural America and working together in all parts of
    our country.
        Senator Booker. I am grateful. I am going to say
    hallelujah, amen to your answer, and remind you that your
    mother is watching.
        [Laughter.]
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Booker. All right. As you know, we are also facing
    a global hunger crisis. Millions of people are in desperate
    need of food. For the past several years, Senator Boozman and I
    have worked closely with USDA to increase and expedite the
    USDA's purchase of commodities such as rice and wheat from U.S.
    farmers for shipment to countries where people are really
    suffering, near famine-like conditions. It is a win-win for us.
    The USDA purchases really help our farmers, and at the same
    time we are able to provide lifesaving food to children and
    families around the globe.
        I know that you and I share a deep faith. It is the
    motivation behind what we do in our work. You believe that the
    gospel calls on us to help people in need. It is also a
    national security issue for America, in helping to stabilize
    other nations that are facing crises.
        My office is getting a lot of concerning reports from
    farmers that humanitarian programs like Food for Peace may be
    paused by one of the recent executive orders. I really am
    hoping that is not true. Again, a yes-or-no question. Once you
    are confirmed, will you check on the status of that, and will
    you make food purchases from our farmers a priority?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir, of course.
        Senator Booker. Fantastic.
        Meatpackers--most Americans do not know this--they work in
    really horrifically dangerous conditions, one of the most
    dangerous jobs in America. They are being forced to make
    repetitive motions every day, forceful ones. The USDA published
    recently a report showing that a current line speeds, 81
    percent of chicken processing plant workers are at an elevated
    risk, significantly so, of developing debilitating upper body
    disorders and things like carpal tunnel syndrome.
        These workers also face a risk of serious injuries. On
    average, two worker amputations per week occur on slaughter
    lines in the United States of America. Just imagine if that was
    your family member. Even worse, meatpacking giants like JBS
    have admitted, and been fined, for child labor violations in
    their processing plants. The USDA currently is one of the
    largest buyers from these big meatpackers.
        I have a bill with Senator Josh Hawley. It is a bipartisan
    bill to stop federal contracting with companies with child
    labor violations.
        As Secretary, yes or no, will you commit to using the
    agency's purchasing power to force these companies to end these
    horrific abuses, child labor practices, and bad treatment of
    workers?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator Booker, I look forward to working with
    you on that. I have not spent enough time to fully understand
    to commit one way or the other. I absolutely look forward to
    working with you and learning more about this issue.
        Senator Booker. Senator Hawley and I will definitely talk
    to you more. I am grateful for that, yes, and I am going to
    speed to my last question.
        Ultra-processed foods in school meals, we are facing a
    crisis--you talked about it earlier--with our children. Thirty-
    eight percent of teenagers in America have pre-diabetes, among
    other often chronic diseases. We have a sickness epidemic in
    American children. We know that if kids reach adulthood obese,
    they are on a trajectory of a lifetime of sickness and
    suffering that will cost our health care system inordinate
    amounts and cost them, as well.
        We know that 60 percent of children's calories--60
    percent--currently come from ultra-processed foods. Many of
    them have unhealthy levels of salt and added sugar. With our
    school meal program we have an opportunity to make sure that
    kids get healthy, nutritious meals that empower them in school
    that day and for their life. Right now, kids are still getting
    too many of their calories in schools from ultra-processed
    meals.
        Yes or no, if confirmed, will you commit to dealing with
    this crisis and really focusing on improving children's
    nutrition by reducing the amount of ultra-processed foods in
    our school meal program?
        Ms. Rollins. The answer is yes, but I want to add to that,
    if you do not mind. As I mentioned with Chairman Boozman, I do
    think this is a crisis, and I do agree with you. I think before
    my friend, RFK Jr., Bobby Kennedy, came on the scene--I believe
    that was in August, and became part of the America First
    movement--that this particular issue, while really important,
    was not necessarily at the top of the America First agenda. At
    AFPI, America First, we had some people working on it but did
    not expect it to be a priority in the Administration.
        I am encouraged that it is now a priority, and I look
    forward to working with everyone.
        Senator Booker. I am so grateful for that. This is not a
    question because my time has expired. Prop 12 coming out of
    California, Packers and Stockyards Act, I know you will be open
    to us bringing you small family farmers, independent family
    farmers, who show that Prop 12 has opened up new opportunities
    for them, and the Packers and Stockyards Act is protecting
    them, and they actually want to see better enforcement. I know
    you are open to us having that conversation.
        Ms. Rollins. I will look forward to that. Thank you,
    Senator.
        Senator Booker. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Marshall.
        Senator Marshall. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member. Ms.
    Rollins, welcome.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Marshall. I just want to know if you agree with me
    that whole milk is the most nutritious drink known to humankind
    and belongs in our school lunches.
        [Senator Marshall drinks milk.]
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I do not know that you have met my
    mom yet, but this is all we had in our refrigerator growing up,
    not anything else, just whole milk. She is absolutely never
    going to let us forget this, the fact that this is coming up.
    Yes, this hits home to me very quickly. It brings back a lot of
    memories.
        Senator Marshall. Ms. Rollins, like many of us on this
    Committee, you have a love, a passion, for rural America, for
    agriculture. Tell us where that comes from and why this job is
    important to American agriculture and rural America. Just from
    your heart.
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, thank you. The fact that I am sitting
    here today, that I am in the United States Capitol, that I am
    sitting in front of this Committee, that I am serving at the
    appointment of the President of the United States as one of his
    potential Cabinet Members, but yet I grew up in a town of
    1,200, with a single mom, with two little sisters, went to
    Texas A&M on an agriculture scholarship because it was my love
    but also we needed the money, that Future Farmers of America is
    the organization that set my path so many years ago, I am
    fighting for the next Brooke who is growing up in a little
    bitty town with a single mom, that her weekends are spent on
    horses and raising cattle and barrel racing and Friday night
    football, at least in the South, and making sure that those
    communities continue to raise and provide thriving and
    incredible opportunities for the next generation of leaders so
    that this country can continue, in the next 250 years, to do
    what we have done in the last 250, and that is to create and
    govern, under our founders' vision, of the greatest country in
    the history of the world. This work and this Committee and this
    moment in time is the backbone to all of that.
        Senator Marshall. Yes, Ms. Rollins, it reminds me of the
    song, that growing up a Kansas farm boy is mostly having fun. I
    think that is what you are describing.
        Ms. Rollins. That is right.
        Senator Marshall. It was mostly having, it was a simpler
    time.
        You pointed out earlier, 90 percent of rural America
    supported President Trump in the election, over 90 percent. Now
    every time I see the President, the first thing he asks me is,
    ``Roger, how are your farmers and ranchers doing in Kansas?''
    Can you just share with this Committee President Trump's
    passion, compassion, for farmers and ranchers. Do you have
    similar conversations with him, as well?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes. Senator, one of the illuminating moments
    of my time with him in the last administration, and it was, as
    you can imagine, an adventure, beyond any imagination, to be
    next to President Trump for three years and then to continue to
    work with him after he left the White House, to build the
    America First Policy Institute, and continue the policies for
    the next 100 years, not just for this moment in time.
        In the last West Wing, I believe I am speaking correctly, I
    was the only person with an agriculture background. That was
    not widely known, because I was managing the entire portfolio.
    Any time, in any senior staff meetings, or any time we were in
    the Oval Office and these issues would come up, he would always
    point to me and say, ``Where are we on that?'' It was so clear
    to me that that is where his heart is.
        I will never forget a Cabinet meeting where we were having
    a discussion about some big corporate entity who had asked for
    a very large sum, in the multis of billions of dollars, for a
    project. That same week he had been asked for that project he
    had also visited some farmers in Georgia. I will never forget.
    I was sitting behind him, because I was not part of the
    Cabinet. I was part of the senior staff.
        I will never forget. I do not think the media was in there,
    but he looked at the entire Cabinet, and then turned over his
    shoulder and looked at us, who were sitting behind him as his
    senior team, and he said, ``I'm not here for those guys who are
    asking for billions of dollars for their new project and their
    market value is many, many billions and billions more. I'm here
    for those farmers. I am here for those men and women that I met
    in Georgia yesterday, who are hurting, but never complained,
    never miss a beat, never stop doing what they're called to do,
    which is to produce for the families across America and across
    the world. That is who I am here, and we all''--pointing to the
    Cabinet and the staff--``are here to serve.''
        I think that in maybe year two of the four, and I have
    never forgotten it. When he called me about this job, we talked
    about that again.
        Senator Marshall. Yes, thanks, Ms. Rollins. Obviously
    agriculture and rural America is important to you. It is
    important to the President. Would you just speak for a moment
    how important biofuels are to the farmers, to ranchers who
    benefit from some of the substrates coming out of that process,
    and to rural America, as well, and specifically how 45Z might
    impact rural America.
        Ms. Rollins. I think that everyone knows where the
    President is on this, and he often jokes that there were a lot
    of meetings, I think a lot of you were in. Senator Grassley, I
    know you were in many of those in the last White House, making
    sure that the President fully understood the importance of
    exactly what you are talking about, Senator, on biofuels, and
    especially to our farmers.
        I believe that in the last 48 hours one of his executive
    orders on energy actually included a mention of biofuels. Also
    my role, if confirmed, is to defend all of American
    agriculture.
        I believe, Senator, that you and others who hail from these
    states where this is a driver for your farmers and your
    ranchers and your economy, should feel very confident that you
    have a friend and a defender in this current Administration to
    make sure this continues. 45Z, obviously, my friend, Scott
    Bessent, if confirmed, over at Treasury, will be working on
    that. That is in his purview. I will ensure that he has the
    data and the voices and the opinions around him to make the
    right decision.
        Senator Marshall. Yes. Just one more quick call on the 45Z.
    Certainly what we do not want is China to benefit from it----
        Ms. Rollins. Correct.
        Senator Marshall [continuing]. which is happening right
    now. We can go into that in more detail later, as well.
        By the way, I was just sitting here thinking, I remember
    President Trump, the first primary back in 2016, in Iowa, I
    believe he came out, was the candidate that came out in favor
    of biofuels, as well, as I recall.
        Ms. Rollins. He did. That is right.
        Senator Marshall. Let's finish up on the regulatory
    environment. I am not sure if anything is a bigger concern to
    the American farmer right now than the regulatory environment.
    The two hot-button issues have been WOTUS, Waters of the U.S.,
    and the Endangered Species Act. Can you tell us what your
    involvement was in rolling back that WOTUS regulation with the
    previous administration, and that, I think, is a good example,
    going forward, of what will be happening.
        Ms. Rollins. I will, and I appreciate that so much because
    I do have extensive experience in many of these regulatory
    programs that in the last administration we worked to make,
    roll back, but also align better for the needs of our ag
    communities and ensure that the Waters of the United States
    rule did not put more farmers out of business. Same with the
    Endangered Species Act. I know that is also a big issue in our
    forestry lane, as well.
        I really encourage and look forward, and my policy heart is
    very happy at the opportunity to make those better, to
    understand the harm and follow the data on it, and really work
    with all of you to try to solve for that in the next four
    years.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Schiff.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and at the outset
    I want to tell you how very grateful I am to serve on this
    Committee. California has not had a Senator on the Agriculture
    Committee for over 30 years, and as a leading agricultural
    state I am really proud of the industry and all the people who
    work in it, and grateful to have a chance to represent them on
    this Committee.
        Senator Marshall, I wanted to tell you that a California
    legislator once made a name for himself by drinking a beaker a
    malathion to demonstrate his view that he thought it was that
    safe. I will not be doing that today.
        Ms. Rollins, thank you for being here today. When we met
    earlier this month to discuss your nomination, firefighters in
    Southern California had just begun efforts to contain two
    blazes. As we know now, this was only the beginning of what
    would ultimately amount to one of the most devastating wildfire
    disasters in the state's history, if not the Nation's history.
    Over the last 2\1/2\ weeks, in L.A., it has been difficult for
    me to put into words how truly catastrophic these fires have
    been. Just the scope of them is beyond anything I would have
    ever imagined, whole neighborhoods and communities just wiped
    out.
        The Forest Service has been playing an amazing role in the
    emergency response efforts, working hand-in-hand with state and
    local partners to secure resources and personnel. To aid
    California's wildfire response, this month the Forest Service
    deployed 2,300 federal firefighters, 12 large air tankers, 20
    helicopters, 6 scoopers, and 8 modular airborne firefighting
    aircraft. Without these federal resources the devastation in
    L.A. would have been far worse--and we are not done with it
    yet. We had the outbreak of another fire just yesterday.
        If confirmed as Secretary, are you committed to deploying
    the same emergency resources to fight wildfires in blue states
    that would be deployed to fight wildfires in red states? Can we
    count on you not to discriminate among states in the vigor of
    the federal response?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, thank you, and obviously it bears
    saying, since you asked, 100 percent yes. To watch the
    devastation in your beautiful state has been heartbreaking for
    all of us, no matter if we are from red states or blue states.
        I think that hopefully, if there is any good that comes
    from this, if I am confirmed, we can figure out how to be even
    a better, more impactful resource the next time this happens,
    and hopefully be able to work more closely, more quickly with
    those on the ground, across blue states and red states.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you. I very much appreciate that.
    Wildland firefighters have been putting their lives on the line
    to protect my communities back home, and we need to make sure
    that we continue to encourage people to become wildland
    firefighters and that their compensation is commensurate with
    the critical and dangerous work that they do.
        I was speaking with one firefighter who was, I think, an
    L.A. Fire Department firefighter, not a wildland firefighter,
    but nonetheless facing the same risks, who told me that he was
    not sure he was going to make it out alive, that there were
    fires in front of him and behind him, his communications
    equipment was in and out, water was running low. He said it was
    the closest thing to hell that he could imagine.
        The key, I think, to recruiting and retaining people to do
    that kind of vital and dangerous work is to make sure they are
    well compensated. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, signed by
    President Biden, included a long overdue pay raise for federal
    firefighters, but that raise is set to expire in March. This
    means our federal firefighters could once again be paid as low
    as $15 an hour to risk their lives to keep our communities
    safe.
        If confirmed as Secretary, are you committed to fighting to
    extend the pay increase so that we can continue to recruit and
    retain these wildland firefighters?
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator Schiff, and the tens of
    thousands of firefighters at the Forest Service, at USDA, in
    our peak seasons, and even now I think we have close to 1,000
    on the ground in your home state. I am 100 percent behind
    ensuring that we have the best firefighters, the best workforce
    that we can possibly have to fight these fires. I need to learn
    more about exactly what it is you are speaking about before a
    full commitment.
        I will commit to this, that in all of my time with
    President Trump, in the 8-plus years I have been beside him, in
    serving in his administration and answering the call for this
    position, if confirmed, that he, too, believes that those who
    are putting their lives on the line every single day deserve
    the honor and the respect and the pay that goes along with
    those jobs. I look forward to working with you to ensure, as we
    move forward, that that is happening, in the most appropriate
    way.
        Senator Schiff. I appreciate that. Let me turn to a
    different topic. During the President's first term, USDA had to
    allocate tens of billions of dollars to offset the financial
    impact of the terrorists and the reciprocal terrorists that
    other countries imposed on our agriculture and on our farmers.
    That financial assistance offered to farmers impacted by the
    trade war was not equally distributed.
        Despite California's leading role in U.S. agriculture and
    the heavy tariffs imposed on specialty crop exports, California
    growers received far less than their fair share in tariff
    assistance under the 2019 Market Facilitation Program. Out of
    hundreds of specialty crops grown in the U.S., only eight crops
    received direct assistance, and in the end approximately 1
    percent of the nearly $15 billion in USDA allocated resources
    went to California specialty crop growers. About 1 percent. As
    you know, we are the leading state when it comes to specialty
    crops.
        If confirmed, are you committed to distributing all
    economic assistance, including trade relief, to states without
    regard for their political leanings?
        Ms. Rollins. I am committed to that. I think, Senator
    Slotkin, even you and I discussed the specialty crops in
    Michigan when we met. I look forward to--I am not familiar with
    the data that you laid out, but I look forward to learning more
    about that and being committed to ensuring, to the very, very
    best of our ability, that this is appropriately adjudicated.
        Senator Schiff. I appreciate that. I look forward to
    working together to make sure that that relief, if it should be
    necessary, is distributed equitably.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Tuberville.
        Senator Tuberville. Coach.
        Chairman Boozman. Coach.
        Senator Tuberville. Thank you very much. Ms. Rollins, who
    would have ever known, 30 years ago, I am a young coach at
    Texas A&M and you are student body president, the first time we
    met.
        Ms. Rollins. That is true. We sat next to each other in
    lots of meetings. That is exactly right.
        Senator Tuberville. Look where we are at now.
        Ms. Rollins. I know. I know. It is an amazing world.
        Senator Tuberville. Congratulations.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Tuberville. You are going to be awesome.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Tuberville. I do not want to sugarcoat this because
    my farmers back home are hurting.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tuberville. We are in trouble. Our farmers are in
    trouble. Small farms are selling right and left. I have got a
    bill on the floor--actually, I dropped it yesterday--about
    keeping foreign adversaries from buying our farmland. We are
    selling it right and left. I do not blame them, because they
    cannot make a profit. Row croppers in my State of Alabama are
    really getting killed. Cotton farmers last year, the input cost
    was about $400 an acre. They might have gotten $100 an acre out
    of their crop last year. That is the reason we had to do a
    supplemental right before Christmas. My phone was ringing off
    the wall. We have got to help our farmers.
        They hate handouts. I will tell you that right now. They
    hate it, because they want to do their own work. You understand
    that. Being from Texas you understand it.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tuberville. Again, it is a dire problem, and it not
    going to get fixed overnight. I am looking forward to seeing
    who your team is going to be around you.
        I will tell you this. It is discouraging to know that you
    walk into the office building where you are going to have three
    or four thousand employees, and you can shoot a gun and not hit
    anybody. There is nobody there. Nobody has been working in the
    office for four years. I mean, it is embarrassing. It is
    absolutely embarrassing. Our farmers need help, and we have got
    nobody working at the office.
        We have to get input costs down. That is not your job. Six,
    seven years ago, a cotton picker cost $750,000 in Alabama.
    Today it is $1.5 million.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Tuberville. Fertilizer has gone sky high after the
    Ukraine war. I mean, it is embarrassing, to where we have
    gotten.
        There is a $45 billion trade deficit in ag--$45 billion--
    and the only way that we can get commodity prices back up is
    handle that trade deficit. That being said, we need dialog. If
    confirmed, will you commit on doing dialog with President Trump
    and the people around ag to get our farmers an opportunity to
    have a better price for their crop?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, I will, Senator, and I so look forward to
    that. I think one of the things I read recently, that only 43
    percent of our ag producers are net positive, net income
    positive. That is unsustainable. We have to find a better way,
    and it cannot come always through government subsidies. We have
    got to expand the market. We have got to figure out input
    costs. One of President Trump's top priorities was food
    inflation. Well, this comes before food inflation because this,
    itself, will drive the cost of food down if we do our jobs and
    if we are able to produce for our ag community the way that,
    Coach, I believe that we can, working together.
        Senator Tuberville. Yes. What we do not want to happen is
    what has happened to our drug industry. You know, we found in
    COVID, we look around going, you know, how do we keep people,
    you know, get people healthy, and all the drugs are made in
    China. We are going to end up in the same situation if we do
    not wake up and smell the roses. It is going to happen. Again,
    people are selling right and left, and you cannot blame them.
    Our small farms are going to end up being corporations like the
    packing houses. We have got, what, three companies now that are
    meatpackers, and one of them is owned by China. We are headed
    in a direction of unknown, and it is going to take leadership
    from your office to get that back on the right track.
        Our forest industry, in my state, $36 billion a year. Now,
    with the USDA Forest Service under your purview, what
    priorities do you have for the health of our forests across the
    country, not just in Alabama, but we have to continue that to
    make sure that we have healthy wood, because it is something
    that we are very proud of.
        Ms. Rollins. I know that is really important to Alabama and
    many of the other states that are represented here and across
    the U.S. Senate. My commitment is to hire an A++ team. We have
    already announced our Under Secretary, Mike Boren, for this
    position. I have great faith in his leadership. He is a
    businessman. I think bringing to the table, hopefully with a
    quick confirmation process from all of you, he will bring to
    the table a team that will take our great firefighters in the
    Forest Service and hopefully realign and reorganize in a way
    that makes the Forest Service, including forest management,
    more productive, more efficient, more effective, so that we do
    not have the issues that we have had in these last number of
    years, and especially for our great producers in your state and
    other states.
        Senator Tuberville. Key word--forest management. Key two
    words. We have got to manage our forests and do it the right
    way. The American people across the country that are not in
    this business, they should not have to pay for everything, the
    mistakes that we make. You know, we are broke. We are $36
    trillion in debt, and it is getting worse----
        Ms. Rollins. That is right.
        Senator Tuberville [continuing]. every day, and we are
    printing $80,000 a second, by the way, and we cannot sustain
    that. The government is way too big.
        Ms. Rollins. Agree.
        Senator Tuberville. Disaster relief. If we have had
    problems with tornadoes or floods or whatever in my state, it
    takes at least three years, at times, to get any kind of
    disaster relief, three years. You know as well as I do, farmers
    borrow money from banks, for a crop, and those bankers are
    looking around going, ``Where is our money?'' Well, we are
    waiting for disaster relief. The bankers should not have to
    deal with that, nor should the farmers.
        I think there has to be a better plan for that, at the end
    of the day. Again, I am throwing all your problems out to you,
    and you probably do not want to hear that. We have got a lot of
    problems that need to be fixed.
        Ms. Rollins. Well, Senator, Coach, I believe that you and I
    have been in conversation with our commander in chief, and the
    fact that it is taking three years to get relief will be
    unacceptable to him. It is unacceptable to me. I look forward
    to working with you to ensure that we do better, much, much
    better than that.
        Senator Tuberville. Thank you. Good luck.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Welch.
        Senator Welch. Thank you very much. I do not want the coach
    to be upset, but when he asked the question, how did you both
    get here, I kind of get it how you got here. I am still trying
    to figure out about the coach.
        Ms. Rollins. How Coach got here?
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Welch. You did another thing that is really
    astonishing. Senator Cruz gave you a very nice introduction.
    You know, I did not know something that he has kept on the down
    low. He actually has a sense of humor.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Welch. This is a pretty astonishing hearing.
        Ms. Rollins. It is a new day.
        Senator Welch. It is. Thank you for your visit to my office
    and your enthusiasm about rural America. I am so delighted to
    be working with our new Ranking Member and our new Chair to try
    to strengthen rural America. I share the point of view strongly
    held by Members of this Committee, that rural America really is
    about the great values and strength of America--hard work,
    family, community. Rural America has been under brutal
    pressure, and I think every single one of us wants to do
    everything we can to strengthen it, because a strong rural
    America is a strong America.
        A couple of things. We have been really blessed, in
    Vermont, with a very responsive Department of Agriculture. The
    Rural Development organization in Vermont has helped us through
    the floods of July `23 and July `24. It has used opportunities
    to strengthen the economy for farmers. I just want to make
    certain that some of the things that have really been helpful
    to us, we can have some confidence will continue should you be
    the new Secretary of Agriculture.
        Number one, under the previous administration, Vermont
    received $40 million through the Rural Energy for America
    Program to help farmers and rural businesses invest in
    renewable energy projects or energy efficiency improvements. We
    do not have to have a debate about climate change and whether
    it is real or not, but my view is this--our farmers can help
    our farmers can help us deal with extreme weather events with
    the weather events, by doing things where they get income to
    sequester carbon.
        Without having the climate change discussion, I want to
    make certain that I can have some confidence that our farmers,
    who are adopting regenerative agricultural practices, organic
    agriculture, are doing things that, by all estimations, make
    for good, healthy crops, but also reduce carbon emissions, that
    we will continue to make that possible, and they will get paid
    to do it, not just be asked through regulations to bear the
    burden.
        Ms. Rollins. Senator Welch, thank you, and I loved visiting
    with you, and excited to come to Vermont, if invited. I loved
    our conversation, and we actually talked about the workforce at
    USDA, at least those that you have interacted with and worked
    with. Hearing from you how excellent the service was and the
    good job that they did meant a lot to me, and I look forward to
    learning more and meeting them, if confirmed.
        I think it is important to recognize, Senator, I will
    always have an open dialog with all of you. I think I gave all
    of you my cellphone.
        Senator Welch. Yes, you did.
        Ms. Rollins. I did.
        Senator Welch. Let me go on to the next one, because I just
    want to go through a few things. You know, another issue is
    labor on the farm. We cannot milk our cows without immigrant
    labor. I am for a secure border. I am also for legal
    immigration. That is a real challenge for our dairy farmers,
    and I want to make sure that whatever we do to secure the
    border does not deprive our hardworking dairy farms and farmers
    access to the labor that they absolutely depend on. Can you
    comment on that?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, yes, thank you, and I appreciate
    everyone's commitment to a secure border. You are not the only
    one on this side of the room that has made the point that that
    is really important. I know there is great concern amongst our
    ag community on what immigration under President Trump will
    look like.
        My commitment to you is this, that understanding the data
    and understanding the impact of those in the ag community--
    dairy farms, I think, especially, are concerned, but everybody
    is--ensuring that we are working with the nominee over at
    Labor, Lori Chavez-DeRemer, who is from Oregon.
        Senator Welch. We will work together on that.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Welch. And, do you appreciate the importance of
    having access to that labor for our dairy farms and others, as
    well?
        Ms. Rollins. I know that these cows need to be milked 24
    hours a day, 7 days a week. It does not go away. If there is no
    one to milk them, that is big trouble.
        Senator Welch. I shared with you that a lot of the
    incredible challenges farmers have are because they do not
    control the weather. A lot of our small farmers are vegetable
    farmers. They do not have an insurance program that works for
    them. The insurance program for some of our vegetable folks,
    they only get paid wholesale, or reimbursed wholesale, when
    they sell at farmers markets at retail. They have to go through
    an incredible documentation process, where they have to report
    how many tomatoes they lost, how many beets they lost.
        I have introduced the WEATHER Act as an effort to try to
    streamline the reporting requirements. We have to have crop
    insurance programs that help not just the big commodities,
    which is a challenge and an obligation we have, but these
    smaller farmers that are the future. Can I count on working
    with you on that?
        Ms. Rollins. Well, streamline, the word ``streamline'' is
    my love line. Yes, you and I will absolutely work together on
    that. We have spent a lot of time this morning talking to
    everyone about restoring rural America and how important that
    is to the next 250 years of our country. That will happen
    because of our small family farms and our rural ranchers.
        Senator Welch. You know, another issue is it is so hard for
    young farmers to get into farming----
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Welch [continuing]. largely because they cannot get
    the farmland. There is a lot of concern expressed here, and I
    share it, about Chinese possibly buying up. You know who is
    buying it up? It is private equity. I want farmers to be able
    to buy up farmland. I mean, is that of concern to you? I know
    having access to farmland for young farmers is, and China may
    be a threat, but private equity is a threat too. Care to
    comment?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, thank you. The average farmer today, the
    average age is 58 years old. If we really think we are going to
    have a sustainable, thriving ag community in 20 or 30 or 50
    years, after you and I have probably gone to meet our maker,
    then we have to reverse that trend.
        Senator Welch. Okay. The last topic in this round, rural
    broadband has made such a difference for rural Vermont and for
    our farm communities, and your Department has played a major
    role in facilitating that. We have to continue that and get
    that last barn, on the longest dirt road, wired so they have
    the advantages that come with access to the internet. Care to
    comment?
        Ms. Rollins. I 100 percent agree.
        Senator Welch. Okay. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Justice.
        Senator Justice. Well, first and foremost, to all of those
    on this Committee, you know, I thank you for allowing me to be
    on the Committee. I thank leader Thune, and I thank anyone that
    was responsible for me being here.
        You know, I am a plain-spoken individual. I am hung up all
    the time on the truth. I will promise you, with all in me, that
    I know a tremendous amount about agriculture. You know, I think
    about--and, Brooke, I cannot call you Mrs. Rollins.
        Ms. Rollins. You can call me Brooke.
        Senator Justice. I could call you Secretary. I have asked
    you over and over to call me Jim.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Justice. I would just tell you just this. All that
    is going to fall in your empire is astronomical. That is all
    there is to it. You know, I am amazed with President Trump's
    nominees, and that is all there is to it. They are qualified.
    They are absolutely experienced. They absolutely have what
    Brooke has. She is stuck on ``on.'' Anybody that cannot see
    that is absolutely not looking. She approaches it with
    positiveness, and a big smile.
        All of you that came, especially all of her family, you
    know, I am not amazed in any way. I know she is infectious
    around every last one of you, and absolutely you will be a
    tremendous Secretary.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Justice. That is all there is to it.
        Now let me just say, let me deviate just a little bit, and
    let me just tell you just this, and this is my view. The
    American family farm has got to be protected like none other.
    Right today, right now, you know, what we have is the average
    size of the American family farm is 450, plus or minus, acres.
    You just think about it. What are they doing right now? What
    are they doing right now? You know, maybe in Wyoming it may
    very well be 30 below zero, and they are out on a snowmobile or
    a horse, trying to feed their cattle. Maybe, if they were a
    dairyman, you know, or lady, wherever it may be, there is never
    a day off, never a day off. The cows have to be milked. There
    is never a day off. Whether it be maybe just that little farm,
    that is sitting, trying to figure out how in the world, with
    fertilizer prices or whatever it may be, how in the world can
    we make ends come out, or ends work.
        Just think about this. They are probably driving a 12-year-
    old pickup truck. They are trying every way they possibly can,
    and every year they are in a Texas Hold 'Em game where they
    shove everything all in, every single year.
        Ms. Rollins. That is right.
        Senator Justice. Now, with all that being said, just think
    about it. What happens if we lose our American small farm?
    Where do we go? You know, corporate interests, and on and on
    and on. They are a productive engine like you cannot imagine on
    the planet. You can never imagine their productivity. They are
    a treasure to every single last one of us, and we best better
    protect them and keep them on that farm.
        You know, they can cash out today with their land, most
    all, and have a lifestyle that is so much better than their
    earnings every single year. Why do they do it? They do it
    because of one thing--they love what they do. They are the best
    of the best, and they love what they do, and we have got to
    keep them there, and we have got to protect them, in every
    single way.
        I know it, in my heart, and I believe it, with all my soul.
    You know, if you will just step back and look, the grocery
    stores, a mile long, food beyond belief. Now I know we have had
    an increase in food prices and we need to do something about
    that if we possibly can. We enjoy a luxury that is off the
    chart. What we throw away, many, many around the world would
    beg to have what we throw away. It is a luxury beyond belief,
    and that small farm that I am talking about provides us that
    luxury.
        Brooke, I have really only got one question for you, and it
    is just this. I do not have enough time to go into all the
    specifics. From a value-added standpoint, you know, if I could
    deviate just a second to forestry, and I look forward to
    telling you about this because I have got a plan that really
    could very well help bring our furniture manufacturing, our
    cabinetry, you know, our flooring manufacturing back from it
    being in China, Vietnam, and Mexico, where we have lost it all,
    for all practical purposes, back to us. We will talk about
    that.
        I want to hear that you are really supportive of value-
    added products, because it is so important to getting our
    manufacturing at home, and what President Trump absolutely
    believes and wants more than anything. Again, I am all in with
    your nomination, 1000 percent. You will do an amazing job.
    There is no question about it. Please comment in the value-
    added, please.
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, there is no excuse why everything in
    American agriculture, and America in general, but we are here
    to talk about ag, is not the best of the world, that everything
    that we work on is of the most excellent approach, and that we
    continue to build and feed and thrive and preserve the American
    heritage of the greatest farmers in the world.
        Senator Justice. I am telling you, and everybody should pay
    close attention, she is a superstar.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Justice. We need her. We need her.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir. I am humbled.
        Senator Justice. It is premature, but congratulations.
        Ms. Rollins. As long as I have Babydog's support, that is--
    --
        Senator Justice. Oh, you have got Babydog with you every
    single day.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir. I so appreciate that. Thank
    you.
        Senator Justice. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Babydog was the difference in you getting
    on the Committee or not.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Justice. Babydog trumps me every single day.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Warnock.
        Senator Warnock. I do not know how to follow that. Welcome
    to the Committee.
        Senator Justice. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Warnock. Thank you, Chairman Boozman. I want to
    take a moment to congratulate you and Ranking Member Klobuchar
    on your appointments to lead this Committee. I look forward to
    working with both of you. I have met with each of you, and I
    have enjoyed our relationship and the work that we have tried
    to do and the work we have done.
        Ms. Rollins, good morning----
        Ms. Rollins. Good morning.
        Senator Warnock [continuing]. and welcome to you and also
    to your family and all those who are here to support you, and
    congratulations on your nomination.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Warnock. I enjoyed also meeting with you last month
    to discuss your nomination and plans for USDA. This morning I
    would just like to follow-up on some of the issues, many of
    which we have already discussed.
        First, it has come to my attention that a recent executive
    order has led to the potential termination of USDA's liaisons
    to our 1890 Land Grant Institutions, institutions like Fort
    Valley State University in Fort Valley, Georgia. There is
    strong bipartisan support for these institutions. They have
    done an incredible job, often doing so much for so many, with
    so very little, for such a long time, that people--it is lost
    on people that work at these institutions every day. I am
    deeply concerned about this and the actions to shut out their
    voices at USDA.
        Ms. Rollins, if you are confirmed, will you commit to
    supporting our 1890 Institutions?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, I believe Prairieview A&M is one of those
    1890 Institutions, which I am very familiar with, and partnered
    as a student at Texas A&M and in the last administration worked
    with.
        I am not familiar with exactly what you are speaking of,
    but my commitment to you is to find out and to continue a
    really important discussion and to learn more about the issue.
        Senator Warnock. Well, the executive order could lead to
    the potential termination of USDA's liaisons to these 1890
    Institutions, which help them to navigate their relationship
    with the USDA. Can I have your commitment to protect those who
    serve these institutions at the USDA?
        Ms. Rollins. Again, sir, I would want to know more and
    understand more before I can make that commitment, but clearly
    those institutions are important, they are bipartisan
    supported, and you have my commitment to have a very robust
    dialog at any moment, any time of day or night, to ensure that
    we have all the data as we are making any decisions.
        Senator Warnock. I appreciate that. I have good
    relationships and good work, bipartisan work, supporting these
    institutions, and I hope you will----
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Warnock [continuing]. keep your eye on that issue.
        Ms. Rollins. I will.
        Senator Warnock. Last year I worked hard with my colleagues
    in a bipartisan manner to provide $21 billion to help farmers
    recover from natural disasters like Hurricane Helene. Farmers,
    as you know, do incredible work. It is a tough business. There
    is so much you do not control. The margins are narrow. I do
    everything I can to protect my growers in Georgia.
        I cannot overstate how critical it is for USDA to
    distribute this assistance, this disaster assistance, to
    Georgia farmers as quickly as possible, but also as equitably
    as possible. If confirmed, briefly because I want to get
    through these questions, how will you work to ensure disaster
    assistance is distributed both swiftly and equitably?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir, thank you, and I will try to answer
    quickly so we can go on. The day I got the call from President
    Trump, it was Saturday, November 23d. We were in our motor
    home, traveling across the country to an Aggie football game.
    Within a few hours of accepting the nomination I began to
    immediately pivot to how do we distribute this disaster, and so
    important, economic aid, working with a few of the Senators on
    this Committee.
        Clearly I am not confirmed yet so this is going to await my
    arrival. In the meantime, sir, we have already announced the
    Under Secretary who worked on this in the last Trump
    administration, who is already building the team who
    distributed these funds, so they know what they are doing. We
    are not reinventing the wheel.
        Senator Warnock. Well, will you work with our state
    agriculture commissioner to ensure Georgia producers, including
    our foresters, have the support they need from USDA to get that
    assistance without having to jump through a bunch of
    bureaucratic hoops?
        Ms. Rollins. Of course.
        Senator Warnock. Will you also commit to equitably getting
    that assistance to all eligible farmers, all eligible farmers,
    including those who have been historically left out of USDA
    assistance, often due to discrimination?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, we will follow the law and ensure that
    that is the case.
        Senator Warnock. Is that a yes or a no?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes.
        Senator Warnock. Let me move on to the next subject. Thanks
    so much.
        Fighting hunger has long been a part of my life's work,
    long before I was elected to the Senate. As you know, I am a
    pastor, and the one miracle story that is in all the Gospels,
    all four, is the feeding of the 5,000.
        Ms. Rollins. That is right.
        Senator Warnock. I constantly hear from Georgia families
    about how their dollar just does not go as far at the grocery
    store as it used to. The average Georgian participating in
    SNAP, a food assistance program that provides critical
    nutrition aid to our most vulnerable families, has about $6.15
    a day to spend on food. In your view, is $6.15 a day adequate
    to avoid hunger for Georgia families?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, this is a supplemental program. I am just
    getting my arms around it. There is few that will be in my
    role, if confirmed, that have a passion for this more than I
    do. Serving those who are most in need, as you and I discussed
    in your office, is a driving force of my entire life. It almost
    sent me to seminary, but I ended up in public policy instead.
        You have my wholehearted commitment to look and ensure that
    the people who need this most are receiving it in the best way
    possible, but at the same time, ensuring that all of the tax
    dollars that are spent on it are also spent in the best way
    possible.
        Senator Warnock. One of the things, as these families
    struggle, one of the things that I am concerned about are
    proposals to slash this critical assistance and create
    additional work verification red tape for families
    participating in these programs. Do you think creating more
    bureaucratic red tape for families will help them purchase
    nutritious food?
        Ms. Rollins. I think it is extremely important that we take
    a wholesale look at every one of these programs and ensure that
    they are serving the people that are needing the programs and
    that they are the safety net they are truly set out to be.
    Obviously, I do not like the words ``bureaucracy'' or ``red
    tape,'' but ensuring that we have set up the appropriate
    lifelines and the appropriate structure so that we can get
    these resources to the families that need them the most.
        Senator Warnock. As we talk about work requirements, and I
    support work. I was raised by a father and a mother,
    commitment, we had a serious work ethic. We want to help these
    families have a basic safety net. Most poor people are
    children. I think it is important to remember that. Most poor
    people are children. SNAP lifts children, seniors, veterans,
    and folks with disabilities out of poverty, and it is proven to
    reduce health care costs and stimulate our local economies.
        If you are confirmed I hope we can find ways to work
    together to ensure our most vulnerable families and our
    neighbors can afford groceries. I think, as someone again who
    preaches the miracle of the feeding of the 5,000, I think it is
    the right thing to do, but I also think it is the smart thing
    to do.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. You have my commitment, and my
    friend, Dr. Alveda King, is here, and we have spoken of that
    multiples of times. Looking forward to working with everyone on
    that.
        Senator Warnock. I am her family's pastor.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. I am very well aware. Thank you.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Grassley.
        Senator Grassley. Congratulations. Like other Senators I
    think you will do a good job.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Grassley. I want to start out by thanking you, like
    Senator Durbin did, for, during the Trump administration
    working with us on the First Step Act. You were actively
    involved in a lot of those negotiations between Democrats and
    Republicans on the Hill here, as well as between us and the
    first Trump administration. You worked hard.
        I noticed after you took the oath the first question you
    got was, ``Are you going to answer our letters?'' Remember what
    I told you in my office?
        Ms. Rollins. Oh yes, sir.
        Senator Grassley. As I tell every confirmed person coming
    to my office, that you ought to say maybe. Because I pointed
    out to you how I had 158 letters to the Justice Department that
    are still unanswered.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Grassley. They said yes, but they turned out to be
    liars, and that is true of Republican and Democrat
    administration, generally. I hope since you said ``I do,'' you
    will tell all your colleagues in the Cabinet the same darn
    thing, or they are going to be liars.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. I hear you loud and clear, and I
    have to believe with 100,000 employees at USDA we will be able
    to answer your letters, to the best of my ability, sir. Yes.
        Senator Grassley. Okay. Now, at least one other person, my
    colleague, Senator Ernst, has brought up the importance of
    whistleblowers and information she got from them. I am not sure
    that I want to ask you a question. I just want to tell you what
    is on my mind, and that is you have got tens of thousands of
    people working under you. You cannot know what they do. You
    ought to listen to whistleblowers. It is not you, yourself,
    listening to whistleblowers. It is you establishing a culture
    within your agency that middle management is going to listen to
    whistleblowers, because then they do not have to come and
    bother me. I have got 38 different investigations going. Most
    of it has come from whistleblower information about fraud or
    about the law not being followed or misspending of money, and
    all that.
        Listen to whistleblowers, will you?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. You have my 100 percent commitment.
    We talked about it in your office, and I really look forward to
    that.
        Senator Grassley. The next thing is the legal term,
    ``actively engaged'' in farming is not enforced. We have got
    too many people on Wall Street getting farm payments, that
    should not be getting them. I want to make sure that all of
    this manipulation that has gone on in the Department of
    Agriculture under both Republicans and Democrats to dilute the
    term ``actively engaged''--and I am being a little facetious
    when I say this, but you ought to at least have dirt under your
    fingernails if you are going to get payments from the taxpayers
    for your farming operation. I expect ``actively engaged'' to be
    fully enforced by you, and whatever, however it has been
    diluted you ought to take a look at it and make sure that it is
    stiffer than what it otherwise was.
        Then when we get into this negotiations on a 5-year farm
    bill--I do not expect you to answer this now, but just let me
    tell you, there can be tremendous savings to the taxpayers, and
    you can even discuss this with Mr. Musk of DOGE, and you can
    discuss it with people at OMB. If you can put a cap on what one
    farmer can get from the farm program, so we are not subsidizing
    big farmers. They get bigger, and I have got nothing wrong with
    the marketplace working for people to get as big as they want
    to get. We should be subsidizing.
        The whole point of an agricultural 5-year farm bill safety
    net is to protect people that are medium-and small-sized
    farmers that cannot control what happens to them, whether it is
    a natural disaster or a Carter grain embargo, or some war in
    Kyiv. Big farmers can handle that, but small farmers cannot.
    That seems to me, for the same reason we put out disaster
    relief for farmers in the bill that just passed before
    Christmas, and you are going to administer, there is the same
    reason that we have a safety net for farmers on prices
    generally and things beyond their control.
        I try every farm bill to get this done, and the most
    successful farm bill I had, and I hope I am successful in this
    farm bill, was 2015, when I got a cap put on in both the House
    and Senate in exactly the same language, and it should not have
    been diluted at all, or changed at all, when it goes to
    conference, because those are the rules of the conference. The
    Congressman from Texas--I do not know his name--that was
    Chairman of the Ag Committee at that time--and you probably
    know who he was--he did not like it and he diluted it until it
    was practically meaningless at this point.
        If you want to save some taxpayers money, look at that
    issue when I bring it up again.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Grassley. Another thing is we had the first Trump
    administration, we had a couple of times in the Biden
    administration used money from the Commodity Credit Corporation
    that I do not think should have been used. The power of the
    purse, as you know, rests with Congress, under Article I of the
    Constitution, and money cannot be spent without authority of
    Congress. Billions have been wasted that way, and I hope you do
    not get involved in wasting those dollars again.
        I will end with the Packers and Stockyards Act. I think it
    is stronger than anything that the Justice Department can do
    under antitrust laws to protect the welfare of the farmer to
    make sure that the marketplace is working. Thank God, Vilsack,
    just before he left office, put out some regulations that will
    help enforce powers of Packers and Stockyards Act, particularly
    to protect livestock producers and highly concentrated areas of
    agriculture or the Poultry Grower Payment System, the Capital
    Improvement Payment System.
        The American Farm Bureau Federation has spoken positively
    about these issues. I think there were some more that are on
    the book that maybe you can take a look at that he did not get
    around to putting out, because maybe they are a little more
    controversial. The Packers and Stockyards Act is the most
    effective tool to make sure that the marketplace works for the
    American farmer. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator, and I am really looking
    forward to working with you and continuing to move forward, and
    especially focusing on our small family farms and rural
    America.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Slotkin.
        Senator Slotkin. Thank you. Congratulations, Mr. Chairman
    and Madam Ranking Chairwoman. I am honored to be here as the
    successor of Debbie Stabenow, our esteemed former Chairwoman,
    the queen of Michigan agriculture. We miss her, and I have
    really, really big shoes to fill there.
        Thank you for our conversation in my office. I appreciate
    your positive approach to meeting with everybody.
        I have the honor to live on my family farm, which used to
    be beef cattle, is now soy and corn, alternatively. I am also a
    former CIA officer, Pentagon official. I really come to the Ag
    Committee with a sense that food security is national security,
    and the United States should always be able to feed itself by
    itself, and everything flows from there. If people agree then
    there are a lot of policies that become pretty clear, of the
    sale of our land to foreign governments or to private equity,
    all of those things. I think that is the approach that I tend
    to take.
        I am also from Michigan. We are not Kansas. We are not
    Iowa. We are specialty crops, right. We have the second most
    diverse agricultural sector in the country, after California,
    and we take pride in not doing monocropping and doing a lot of
    fruits and vegetables and a lot of other things.
        This is why I am particularly concerned about the tariffs.
    Everyone is talking about tariffs. Mr. Trump is throwing them
    around, and I just want to review the bidding to make sure,
    particularly with your agency, that we are all on the same page
    on what happened the last time President Trump put on tariffs,
    what happened specifically to our farmers.
        Just to review the bidding, President Trump announced 25
    percent tariffs on Chinese products--batteries, TVs, medical
    devices. Again, I certainly understand the instinct, as a CIA
    officer, right. I want to push back on China. China retaliated
    and put 25 percent tariffs on soybeans, fruits, pork, and some
    other items.
        Then we got into a trade war. We started adding more things
    to the list. They started adding more things to the list. It
    went on and on and on, and back and forth. Suddenly, our
    farmers across the country are screaming bloody murder because
    the markets that they used to have access to, no one wanted to
    buy our stuff because it had that 25 percent tariff. We felt
    that very acutely.
        What did we do? Because we felt, under the Trump
    administration, people rightfully felt like our farmers were
    getting the shaft here, they raided the CCC account, the
    emergency rainy day account that you will have control over,
    for $23 billion, to give subsidies to our farmers. We put on
    the tariff, got into a trade war, ended up our farmers were in
    trouble, we paid them off. Everyone here has said no farmer
    wants a subsidy. They want to work, right. They want to get
    paid a fair rate for their crop.
        That emergency fund is the same fund that helps us with
    things like avian flu, that we are now dealing with all over
    the country.
        You can imagine, as a Michigander, the throwing around of
    tariffs, particularly with Canada, Mexico, a bunch of other
    places. I am trepidatious that this is going to come back to
    our farmers. When you get confirmed, and it looks like you
    will, you will swear an oath to the Constitution of the United
    States, not to President Trump.
        Can you say--I know you have said it--but for the
    Michiganders watching, that you will throw your body in front
    of the bus to make sure that any political talking point on
    tariffs that may sound good is actually truly tested against
    how it will impact our farmers, like it was not last time
    around?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I appreciate your passion, I share
    it, and I think we are similar in a lot of ways. Yes, my
    commitment is that there will be no sleeping, that we will work
    around the clock to ensure that our ag communities across this
    country are represented in those discussions and at the table.
    I will do everything in my power to elevate, preserve, honor,
    conserve that backbone of America.
        Senator Slotkin. Yes. I just want to know that you have a
    good relationship with President Trump, and that is a value
    add. Use it to help our farmers, not just a political talking
    point. We all want to punch back on China, most of us, but it
    has got to fit reality here and not end up boomeranging on us
    like it did last time.
        Next is avian flu. We talked about this, as well, in my
    office. Michigan has been dealing with this. Lots of states
    around the country are dealing with it. We have had human
    beings, a few, getting ill. One passed away. We now see it in
    cats, household pets that are eating birds that have it, that
    kind of thing.
        What we have seen, you know, I think Michigan has gotten
    decently high marks for handling it well because we have
    cooperated with the Federal Government. There are a lot of
    folks around the country that are not so friendly with the
    Federal Government.
        You are going to be the Federal Government, having to put
    some muscle behind some of our rules so that we do not see this
    spread. I mean, again, right now you cannot get a dozen eggs
    around Holly, Michigan, where I live, for less than $4.69 a
    dozen. It used to be two bucks.
        Please tell me what you are going to do in the Federal
    Government role that you are about to take to make sure that we
    stem the spread of avian flu, even the states and farmers who
    are not so friendly with the Federal Government.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator, and I do remember our
    conversation, and it is certainly a top priority. I know in my
    opening remarks it is one of my top four priorities on day one,
    putting the right team in place to ensure that what you
    discussed and outlined is happening.
        I do believe that with my depth of experience with working
    at all levels of government, specifically at the state level, I
    have been working closely--I believe probably mostly
    Republican, maybe all Republican, but all the ag commissioners,
    I am already in contact with, and if confirmed will continue to
    work closely with them.
        I think there is no doubt that the all-of-government
    approach, working with the stakeholder community but also the
    state and local officials, is going to be extremely important.
        To your point about food security at the top of your
    remarks, that remains paramount, I think, for all of us.
        Senator Slotkin. Yes. Then, last, I will just echo some of
    Senator Warnock's comments. We have seen, in versions of the
    farm bill that were created in the past year, both in the House
    and the Senate, that SNAP is usually the bill payer for at
    least part of it, and cuts to SNAP, and then additional
    subsidies to some of our farmers, frankly particularly farmers
    down South.
        I understand that that is popular. I would just ask you
    again to look into your heart. If the majority of poor people
    are children, that is not a work requirement that they can
    meet. Please just remember the children and be thoughtful about
    our approach on SNAP, not just, again, a political talking
    point.
        Ms. Rollins. I will, Senator. Thank you.
        Senator Slotkin. Thank you. I yield back.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Fischer.
        Senator Fischer. Thank you, Senator Boozman, and
    congratulations on your gavel. I look forward to working with
    you and with the Ranking Member. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins, so good to see you. I really, really
    appreciated you coming to the office last month and the great
    discussion that we had.
        As you know, the agricultural industry is the economic
    engine of Nebraska. We grow a lot of corn and beans and wheat
    and sugar beets and livestock. We span the necessity of having
    that strong economy for our state, that food security, how
    important it is for our country, and I look forward to working
    with you in the future on that.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you.
        Senator Fischer. You noted in your testimony that we must
    demand strong and steady markets for our agricultural bounty,
    and this is a statement that I hear consistently from our
    producers, as well. One of those really important markets for
    Nebraska's agriculture is biofuels. In his day one actions,
    President Trump emphasized the need for our country to be
    energy dominant. The President has long recognized that ag
    producers have a role to play in producing abundant, home-grown
    energy, and he took steps in his executive order declaring a
    national energy emergency so that we can continue to allow for
    the sale of E15 year-round.
        I have long led an effort to make this policy permanent,
    and I look forward to working with my colleagues to deliver on
    that part of the President's agenda. We know that there is
    going to be a number of other biofuel decisions that will be
    made in the coming months that will have significant impacts on
    the biofuel market.
        I know you have heard from a number of my colleagues on
    this Committee about the importance of that. Can you just speak
    briefly about how you view the importance of biofuel markets
    for our farmers?
        Ms. Rollins. I will, and Senator, thank you. I loved being
    in your office and meeting Fred Fischer, and really look
    forward to hopefully having more conversations in your office
    and in your home State of Nebraska, which is one of the shining
    stars of our country.
        In the last few months, since the announcement was made
    that I was going to be hopefully, if confirmed, joining this
    Administration and the Cabinet as the head of USDA, I have had
    multiples of conversations with many of you on the Committee
    and outside the Committee. Your Governor flew to Texas to give
    me a couple of hours of his time, to make sure I understood,
    specifically within your state, but frankly, how this affects
    so much of the Midwest and our corn states.
        My commitment is to defend and protect and fight for all of
    American agriculture. Clearly, in the last administration, this
    issue was under the National Economic Council, Larry Kudlow, so
    I did not manage it under the Domestic Policy Council, but I
    was certainly in a lot of the meetings, which there were a lot
    of meetings, President Trump would tell you, in the Oval
    Office, about this. His executive order in the last few days
    mentioning biofuels as part of his all-of-the-above strategy to
    reclaim energy dominance across the world is important.
        Senator Fischer. Right. President Trump was very generous
    with his time in his previous time in the Oval Office, and he
    is correct. We had a lot of meetings in the Oval Office.
        Ms. Rollins. I think he said 27.
        Senator Fischer. Truly. He would like to get this issue
    settled, as well. I thought maybe in the CR, but we will
    continue to push for that.
        What we have seen over the last four years, and what I have
    heard, has been a lot of disappointment from Nebraskans about
    the lack of any kind of trade agenda from the Biden
    administration. In fact, for the first time in decades we have
    an agricultural trade deficit, and as you said earlier, it is
    projected to hit a record-breaking $45 billion. I understand
    there can be a variety of factors that impact a trade deficit,
    but I am concerned that part of this stems from there being
    really any kind of clear agricultural trade agenda from the
    last administration.
        We cannot see that happen again. Can you talk about how you
    would both hold our current trading partners accountable and
    the role that you will, or that you would want to see USDA play
    in developing these new export markets?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, Senator, and that $45 billion, what is
    remarkable about that is 42 percent of that is just in the last
    year.
        Senator Fischer. Yes.
        Ms. Rollins. The wheels are falling off, and it is very,
    very important that the wheels get put back on as soon as
    possible. I think for those that know me for a long time, but
    even, Senator, you and I have just gotten to know each other in
    the recent months, know that I am a relentless cheerleader for
    whatever it is that I have been called to do. For this moment
    in my life, and to meet this moment, as scripture says, I am
    called to take agriculture to preserve our rural communities,
    and take our products to the world, and work around the clock
    to ensure that that sort of trade deficit begins to peel back,
    and hopefully by the end of our time here, in the next four
    years, is completely gone, and, in fact, we are back in the
    positive.
        I believe we can do that. I mentioned earlier I think
    President Trump is the consummate deal maker. His heart for
    rural America and for our farmers and ranchers I think will
    hopefully lead the way. I certainly will be right next to him,
    whispering in his ear as we move forward on this. I think and
    hope and pray that we can begin to solve for this immediately.
        Senator Fischer. Great. Another area that I focused on is
    how precision ag technology can help our farmers and ranchers
    to achieve better yields and reduce environmental impact,
    improve economic returns. I have had a number of bills on that
    that I am going to be reintroducing and including, hopefully,
    in the farm bill that we work on.
        Additionally, myself and really the entire Nebraska
    delegation, along with the University of Nebraska at Lincoln,
    have been working in a very close partnership with the Ag
    Research Service on the National Center for Resilience and
    Regenerative Precision Ag at the University Innovation Campus.
    Last May we broke ground on that facility, and I hope that I
    can continue to work with you to make sure that we get that
    facility completed.
        Can I get your commitment to continue working with me on
    this facility? Can I get your commitment to come to Nebraska?
    We had Sonny Perdue out at the ranch and had a great barbecue,
    with neighbors. We can do that, and on another trip we can get
    you to Lincoln and see the ARS facility, what we are doing
    there.
        Ms. Rollins. That would be my great honor.
        Senator Fischer. Great. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Lujan.
        Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative,
    welcome to the Committee, Representative Kerwin. I know that
    most folks have been recognizing you, but we just want to say
    welcome. I look forward to working with you in whatever
    capacity we can. My late father also served in the New Mexico
    legislature, and very much appreciated some of those good
    projects that he had with some of the new family, if you will,
    the extended family of members from Texas. I got to know the
    young person. Welcome to the Committee.
        Mrs. Rollins, thank you for being here. I very much
    appreciated the conversation that we had in the office, as
    well. One of the areas I shared in our conversation is
    something that I hold deeply, as I expressed to you, which is
    that every American should be able to have food on their table.
    No one should go hungry in America, no matter what zip code or
    area code they live in, or no matter how much money they make.
        I appreciated my colleagues raising issues in some of these
    areas with nutritional programs. Given the important role that
    the Secretary of Agriculture plays in administering federal
    nutritional programs, I would like to better understand your
    vision for that.
        Now, I did my due diligence to go through the America First
    Policy Institute's documents, but I was not able to find
    anything that I could digest--which is probably the wrong word
    to use----
        Ms. Rollins. No pun intended.
        Senator Lujan [continuing]. when it comes to addressing
    hunger in America. Do you agree that in America that--let me
    ask it this way. Do you believe that in an America that is
    truly great that our children do not go hungry?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes.
        Senator Lujan. Updates to the Thrifty Food Plan in 2021, a
    program that you would have a lot of say over, lifted about 2.4
    million SNAP participants, including 1 million children, out of
    poverty. That is good. It is not great yet because we have not
    done it all, but it is a good start.
        Ms. Rollins, yes or no, will you commit to opposing any
    cuts to SNAP that would prevent Americans, including millions
    of children, from putting food on their table?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, probably not surprising to you, I
    cannot commit to that. Obviously, it is of utmost importance to
    me, and you and I discussed that, that we solve this, that it
    is not just hunger, it is nutrition, as well, for so many of
    our children that do not have access to those programs.
        I also know that I have a duty to the taxpayer who is
    funding, in significant numbers, those programs. I sincerely
    believe, Senator, that working together and working with other
    Members of this Committee, it is important to Chairman Boozman,
    as well, that we can find a solution that may or may not end up
    in cuts. I do not know. That is something I need to spend more
    time on, research the data, meet with more people. I cannot
    make that commitment to you today but I can make the commitment
    to you for a lot of time, a lot of thought, a lot of
    conversation as we move down that road.
        Senator Lujan. I appreciate that. You know, I am always
    reminded that budgets are a reflection of values, depending on
    how those budgets are put forth, as well. I certainly hope that
    in America, while we all have a responsibility, a fiscal
    responsibility, that our priorities would say children should
    not go hungry in America. I hope that is something that we can
    find some commonality on down the road.
        I want to drill into something more specific, which is a
    program called WIC. It is a program for women, infants, and
    children, also a food program. It is one of those acronym
    programs you talked about that are over at the Department of
    Agriculture.
        For decades, Republicans and Democrats have supported full
    funding for this program, meaning that no eligible mother or
    child who applies for the program is turned away. In your
    capacity as Secretary, is this a program that we can count on
    your support with?
        Ms. Rollins. I look forward--I believe that is one of the
    16 nutrition programs across the United States Department of
    Agriculture purview. I have not spent as much time as I hope to
    in the coming days and weeks, once confirmed, to really dig
    into that. Clearly my heart, this Administration, I believe
    speaking for the full Administration, clearly America is the
    place where everyone should have the opportunity to be in part
    of a safety net when needed, and WIC, I realize, is an
    important part of that safety net.
        Senator Lujan. I appreciate that response very much.
        Now in the area of specialty crops, everyone here brags on
    whose is best. We have it.
        Ms. Rollins. It is New Mexico.
        Senator Lujan. I am going to address that right away. I
    share the concern that many have shared up here today around
    small farms. Fifty-three percent of New Mexico farms are 50
    acres or less. The one that I am on is under five. I am
    concerned, as well, with what has been happening with small
    farms across America, whether it is water rights that are being
    gobbled up and taken off for something else, away from
    agricultural water rights, or who is buying them, or what they
    are turning into.
        It is one of the reasons I introduced a piece of
    legislation with Senator Moran, that is the Farmer to Farmer
    Education Act. I will never forget a conversation I had with a
    grower back home, where I was asking him about USDA programs
    years back, and he said, ``Well, we don't do so well qualifying
    for those programs and all the rest.'' I said, ``Well, you are
    doing okay. You are doing better than most. Tell me how.'' He
    said, ``I had to learn now to farm USDA.'' Maybe that works for
    some but not for all.
        I agree with everyone that has talked about the red tape
    that exists for some of these programs. We have got to find a
    better way. These are people that are spending time producing
    food, growing food. They should not be stuck behind a desk
    trying to figure out what document needs to go here or what
    document needs to go there. We have got to find a better way. I
    appreciate your commitment already in that particular area, and
    your commitment to work with small farms.
        The other area I raised in our meeting, and I actually just
    got off the phone with someone, so I apologize for excusing
    myself, but the Hermit's Peak/Calf Canyon fire. This is a fire
    that started a few years ago that became the largest fire in
    the State of New Mexico's history. What surprises a lot of
    folks, and I appreciate my Republican and Democratic colleagues
    for supporting me and helping me create a fund specifically for
    this fire, is that this fire started as a prescribed burn.
        My brother actually called in to try to burn our ditches
    and some things around our house, and you have to call the
    local fire department, is the way our permit works. You call
    them up and you say, ``Can I burn today?'' They will tell you,
    ``Nope. No burning today.'' He got a no burn the day that they
    started this prescribed burn. It got out of control. Then I got
    told by folks around USDA, ``Well, very few percentage of our
    fires, prescribed fires, turn into big burns.''
        About two months later, guess what happened in New Mexico?
    We had another one. There was an investigation, and then that
    investigation showed that rather than using the infrared
    technology that we have all helped fund, some folks put their
    hands on the deal, and it did not feel warm, and they walked
    away, and the winds kicked up. We know what happens when a
    little coal gets a little bit of a breeze. Sometimes we do it
    ourselves, give it a little breath.
        There has got to be a better way about ensuring that the
    technology we can secure, that firefighters get paid properly,
    but that we follow this so this does not happen anywhere in
    America again.
        I will close with this, Mr. Chairman. I very much
    appreciate, Mrs. Rollins, your commitment to working with
    Governor Noem or with FEMA, and making sure that when these
    programs exist, that money gets out the door to the families
    that need it most. Just thank you for that. Good luck with
    everything.
        Again, Representative, I am honored to have you here today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Moran.
        Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, I would defer to the Senator
    from South Dakota as the Majority Leader. Otherwise, I will
    feel too much pressure to be brief.
        Chairman Boozman. Well, they told me that the Majority
    Leader was here, and it is customary that he goes. He was
    trying to show his servant leadership and let you go.
        Senator Moran. Well, I was trying to do the same thing, and
    I defer and yield to the Senator from South Dakota.
        Chairman Boozman. Okay. Senator Thune. Again, I think it is
    a real tribute. Senator Thune right now is a busy person,
    trying to get the railroad going here and doing a lot of
    different things. It just shows how important agriculture is,
    not only to him but to his state.
        Senator Thune. Moran is just trying to get one up on me.
    You know. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ms. Rollins,
    for your willingness to serve. This issue is incredibly
    important, as you already know, to folks on this Committee. It
    is the number one industry in our State of South Dakota. We
    know you are going to be great in this job, and we look forward
    to moving you along and getting you confirmed and off to work.
        There are several things that need to be worked on. We have
    a record trade deficit in agriculture, which we have never seen
    that before. It has been one area of our economy that we have
    always had trade surpluses. The Emergency Relief Program has
    not worked well. There have been a lot of glitches that need to
    be smoothed out. We want you to jump on that one, as well.
        I would say among the issues that I want to touch on
    quickly, and you have been here forever, and I will try and
    keep this brief, although my colleague from Kansas can ask
    questions. I want to touch on a couple of things that are
    really in my home state.
        As you know, I have been a long-time supporter of mandatory
    country of origin labeling for beef products. I would just say
    that South Dakota cattle producers work really, really hard,
    and tirelessly, to produce some of the highest quality beef in
    the world.
        The system in which producers operate needs to be fair and
    transparent, which I think is critical that we take the steps
    to pass legislation tasking USDA and USTR to find a path
    forward on mandatory country of origin labeling. If confirmed,
    will you commit to working closely with my office, as well as
    with the U.S. trade rep to ensure a WTO-compliant path forward
    for mandatory country of origin labeling?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. I look forward to that, and
    hopefully I can be a value-add and a consensus-driven approach
    to that. I really appreciate your leadership and passion for
    this.
        Senator Thune. Thank you. I appreciate that very much. We
    will look forward to that.
        As you know, the Black Hills is an important timber
    producer, and timber processors and communities depend upon the
    Forest Service for nearly 80 percent of their raw material, and
    in turn, the Forest Service depends on the capacity of the
    processors to care for and manage the forests. I know this has
    been touched on already, but I want to talk specifically about
    the Black Hills.
        Since 2019, the Timber Sale Program in the Black Hills
    Forest has been cut drastically. In fact, sales announced for
    this fiscal year are approximately 25 percent of what is
    allowed for in the current forest plan. In 2021, one of the
    three primary sawmills in the Black Hills closed, citing a lack
    of U.S. Forest Service timber sales as the primary factor, and
    today the remaining sawmills are operating at 50 percent,
    incurring financial losses, and trucking in material from other
    states.
        This is not sustainable. The Biden administration policies
    have decimated the timber industry, forest products industry in
    the Black Hills of South Dakota. It is not sustainable for
    companies, communities, or, frankly, for that matter, for the
    national forests. We have got to manage our forests in a way
    that reduces the wildfire risk that exists out there. We are
    starting to see evidence of another pine beetle epidemic in the
    Black Hills.
        I guess my question is, if confirmed, will you commit to
    work with us quickly, and the entire delegation of the Black
    Hills National Forest footprint, and the forest products
    industry to understand the issues at hand and to get much
    needed attention and priority, and hopefully relief, to what is
    a very dire situation in the Black Hills National Forest?
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir, I have become acutely aware that not
    just in your home state but in multiples of home states this
    industry is just being decimated by current policies. I believe
    I speak for the larger administration and President Trump that
    that is unacceptable. Whatever we need to do, within reason and
    within the law, to turn the ship on that, you have my full
    commitment and as much time as I can possibly give, building
    the best team, getting our Under Secretary in this arena
    confirmed as soon as possible.
        We have already begun the path forward on that, and I
    really look forward to working with you ongoing and hopefully
    moving very quickly.
        Senator Thune. Thank you. We will work quickly to get you
    confirmed and hopefully the people who will have direct
    responsibility for this. It is that urgent. I mean, this is an
    emergency. I cannot tell you. People in the Black Hills and the
    jobs that go with it are really desperate.
        All right. Finally, on just the beginning farmers, it is
    challenging, I think as you know, because of some of the
    barriers to entry to get into agriculture. Making that easier,
    not harder, and less expensive, not more expensive, is
    something that we have really focused on.
        I have got a bill with Senator Klobuchar, which we can talk
    to you later about. Crop insurance has always been the
    foundation, the cornerstone of the safety net, and we have got
    other programs that we try to refine each time we do a farm
    bill. This farm bill, which the Chairman will lead us through,
    will be my fifth. As we do that, I would encourage you to work
    with us to find ways to strengthen and fortify the existing
    safety net programs and look at ways that we can provide
    incentives and encourage beginning farmers and young people who
    desire and aspire to become involved in production agriculture,
    to be able to do so.
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, thank you for that. The average age of
    the farmer in America is 58 years old. That is not sustainable.
    If we hope to revivify and restore our rural communities and go
    back to our family farms, we have to address this immediately.
    Whatever that looks like, whatever all of the wholesale
    approach could be or should be, I will be the biggest advocate,
    the biggest cheerleader. I will be in the White House all the
    time talking about it, all across America, working with all of
    you to fix that. I think it is of dire importance for the
    future of our country.
        Senator Thune. Great. Thank you, Ms. Rollins, and thank you
    again for your willingness to serve. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you so much, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Well, we are still on the first round.
    Senator Schiff has already gone, so Senator Moran.
        Senator Moran. Chairman, thank you, and Senator Thune,
    thank you. I am pleased to be a new Member of the Senate
    Agriculture Committee, and it took a waiver that probably
    involved the Majority Leader's approval, so I am pleased to now
    have that debt clear.
        Ms. Rollins. You are all free.
        Senator Moran. I am all free. Ms. Rollins, thank you very
    much for the conversation we had in the office. Thank you for
    your interest in serving. I want to run through, I hope, maybe
    five things that I want to talk about briefly, some of which we
    did talk in person.
        First of all, it has been described here the dangerous and
    dramatic circumstances that farmers and ranchers find
    themselves in across the country. It is certainly true in
    Kansas. We have the same difficulties that everybody else has
    across the country with high input costs and low commodity
    prices. I would add that almost 80 percent of the counties in
    Kansas are in a drought circumstance. You add to the problems
    that we cannot grow a crop is dramatic. This is the least
    amount of wheat harvested in Kansas since 1961. There are
    significant challenges. It highlights what Senator Thune said
    about the importance of a risk management program, crop
    insurance, and it is, perhaps, as important as anything else
    that we will do.
        Our failure to pass a farm bill, and one of the reasons
    that I am excited to be on the Senate Agriculture Committee is
    this really does have to be our shot at getting the farm bill
    done. I cannot imagine there can be another excuse, and we will
    have an administration that is cheering us on. Senator Boozman
    and Senator Klobuchar are two people, I think, that we will see
    work together, and I pledge to do my part to accomplish that.
        As a result of no farm bill and all these other problems,
    we passed disaster assistance, economic and natural disaster, I
    just want to again remind you the timeliness. Our farmers are
    going to their bankers, have been to their bankers. There is
    not time for a farmer to have to wait to see what the
    consequences were. If we could predict, if USDA could tell
    farmers how the program is going to be administered, even
    before the checks are determined, that would be very valuable
    if they put it into their planning process, helpful to them and
    helpful to their banker.
        I would remind you that in my view, and I think my
    colleagues, certainly my farmers at home, the way that disaster
    assistance was implemented in 2022, did not help the farmers
    who suffered the greatest losses. The way that your predecessor
    implemented the disaster payments was very damaging, very
    discouraging, very disappointing. We would ask you to do so, to
    implement as the payments were determined in the 2018-2019 crop
    years, USDA disbursed the way--and in addition to asking that
    question, you would also be complying with congressional law
    and intent. We worked hard to make clear that whoever the
    Secretary of Agriculture was, in whatever administration, they
    could not go back and do it the way that provided almost, very
    little disaster assistance. That is number one, and if you
    happen to tell me yes----
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, and since we have Senator Thune still
    here, the quicker we can get our Under Secretary approved in
    that lane, the quicker we will be able to move. Obviously, my
    confirmation, as well, if approved, and I will be honored. We
    have already begun putting the team together that did this work
    under President Trump's first administration. Hopefully, my
    thought was that we will not have to reinvent the wheel. We can
    immediately begin moving. That is my commitment, and again, I
    will work all hours to ensure that that happens.
        Senator Moran. Thank you for that answer.
        I also want to, again, highlight a few words that I
    mentioned in our conversation in the office. The National Bio
    and Agro-Defense Facility.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Senator Moran. In Manhattan, Kansas, near Kansas State
    University is this national center, created as a result of the
    fear of an introduction of some entity, something into our food
    supply system that would be a terrorist act, and do we have the
    capability scientifically to respond. That facility is a $1.5
    billion facility. It employs 400 people. It has greater
    potential than what has been developed between the Department
    of Homeland Security and the Department of Agriculture. It has
    been transferred to USDA. It is your responsibility. If could
    give me a point person, now or a few days from now, which could
    become my point person on the National Bio Agroscience
    Facility.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir. I cannot do it right at this moment,
    but I will absolutely get that to you as soon as I have the
    ability to do that. I do not know if I have to wait to be
    confirmed. If I do not, you will get that right away. If I do,
    hopefully that will come upon confirmation very soon.
        Senator Moran. It seems to me that we should be working for
    your fast confirmation.
        Ms. Rollins. That seems like a really good idea.
        Senator Moran. Let me highlight NIFA and ERS. The Trump
    administration, in the past, decided that they wanted to help
    put departments, agencies, federal employees across the
    country, not totally centered here in Washington, DC, the
    Nation's capital. NIFA and ERS agencies were moved to Kansas
    City. I think what happened is in the circumstances here in
    Washington, DC, there were 650 or 700 employees. I am told that
    there are 400 employees now in Kansas City, but I am also, at
    least by press reports, only 20 percent of the people are
    actually working in the office.
        If we want to have the kind of consequence in reviving
    rural America other places in the country, this is certainly a
    Kansas issue but it is a Kansas-Missouri-Nebraska-Iowa, where
    sometimes our farm kids cannot get a job back on the farm,
    cannot return to the family farm, but they want to work in
    agriculture. Or it is a spouse of somebody who is on the farm.
    Having those agencies and their employees in places like Kansas
    and Missouri and Iowa and Nebraska creates opportunities that
    would not otherwise exist.
        In my view, the purpose of the move was defeated in the
    reality of telling people, ``Well, you stay in D.C. and work
    from home.'' That fits in with a conversation a number of us
    have had about actually getting USDA and other federal
    employees back in the office.
        Ms. Rollins. I 100 percent agree with you. I am extremely
    excited to get our workforce back into the office, whether it
    is here in Washington or out across the country. I think that
    in the business that we are in at USDA, a customer business,
    and being available for our customers, whether that is up in
    Senator Welch's Vermont or my Texas, wherever it is, your
    Kansas, that we have people in the office. That will be a very
    big priority of mine.
        Senator Moran. Thank you. I am involved in SAF, renewable
    aviation fuel. We have introduced legislation, Farm to Fly. It
    has been made a part of the draft of both the House and Senate
    farm bills. I would just ask for your awareness that there is
    an opportunity for agriculture across the country as we begin
    to fuel the aviation industry. In Kansas, the air capital of
    the world, along with an agricultural center, has a great
    potential, but this is a potential for all farmers, as we talk
    about how to make sure if we have lost a market due to a tariff
    or as they struggle. We need every market we can get. It also
    requires a good definition from 45Z and the Treasury
    Department, which you have said you will advocate for.
        Finally, we have an ARS Research Center in Manhattan,
    Kansas. Kansas State University has a tremendous amount of
    agricultural research. We would like to see cooperation between
    the two, including potentially the colocation of their work.
    The facilities for ARS are nothing that they should be. There
    is a lot of work that needs to be done, and there are a number
    of us, including the Chairman of the Committee, who are Members
    of the Appropriations Committee for the Department of
    Agriculture. We want to help you get better facilities, and I
    would just like to highlight the need for cooperation. If we
    are going to build better or expand a facility, can we do it in
    conjunction with the local university and get the bigger bang
    for the buck.
        Ms. Rollins. I encourage that discussion. Obviously, it is
    a proud agriculture degree from Texas A&M, and I am still very
    close to the leadership there. In fact, our vice chancellor was
    hoping to be here today, but ended up having to give a speech
    to some livestock producers.
        I really look forward. My heart is with a lot of these
    universities, with all of our land grants across the country.
        Senator Moran. That was a very fine answer. I like the
    response. Except there was something you should have said about
    the importance of other land grant universities, for example,
    Kansas State University.
        Ms. Rollins. For example, Kansas State, Senator, yes. I
    appreciate that, and I am excited to continue that work with
    you.
        Senator Moran. Let me tell Mrs. Kerwin, thank you for
    raising a great daughter.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Schiff, 5 minutes. We are going
    to do 5-minute rounds now.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Rollins, right
    now farm workers in Ventura County are picking strawberries in
    a brown haze, smoke from the fires. It is a surreal scene to
    look at images of working in those conditions. These are just
    some of the difficult conditions that farm workers are often
    in. They are working in 100-degree heat. They are working in
    the cold. They are some of the hardest-working people I have
    ever met. I want to raise the issue of the impact that mass
    deportations would have on them.
        First and foremost, on people who are working so hard to
    put food on our table and just the, to me, grave injustice of
    deporting people who are doing such vital work to feed us,
    there is also the impact on their families. Many of them have
    children who are U.S. citizens, and will be U.S. citizens. It
    would have the effect of splitting up their families. Even if
    we set that aside, which we should not, it is estimated that
    perhaps half of California's farm workforce is undocumented.
        My question is, how are you supposed to farm? How are
    farmers in California supposed to survive if there are truly
    mass deportations in which half of the workforce is sent out of
    the country? Americans do not want to do that work. It is,
    frankly, just too back-breaking. Who is going to work the
    farms?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, I know we talked about this in your
    office and had a productive, perhaps agreed to disagree, but
    still productive conversation, and I so appreciate that. We
    have talked about this within this Committee in the last three
    or four hours, as well.
        President Trump ran and was overwhelmingly elected on the
    priority of border security and mass deportation. He and his
    team are, I am assuming, currently putting in place the plans
    to begin that process, of course first with those who have
    committed criminal offenses once they have been here.
        The American people have asked for a secure border and a
    system where they do not have to be concerned with the millions
    and millions that crossed here illegally and brought a lot of
    strife and unsafe communities to America. I know this is not
    the committee where we discuss this, and I know probably the
    last thing you want to do is get into a debate right now over
    it, because I sure do not want to.
        Let me answer your question. I will work around the clock
    with our new Labor Secretary, if she is confirmed, Lori Chavez-
    DeRemer. There is obviously, I think everyone would agree, H-
    2A, important changes that need to be made to recognize, within
    the agriculture community, the importance of a strong labor
    force.
        Senator Schiff. Well, I still want to get back to my
    question, though. If they are gone, who is going to do that
    work?
        Ms. Rollins. Well, sir, we do not know, first of all, who
    ``they'' are, right. I mean, we all throw numbers around, like
    40 percent, 50 percent, 60 percent. The answer is we just do
    not know. As these processes and programs are being implemented
    under this new Administration, with the full support of the
    majority of Americans, I think that we, as the leaders in
    agriculture, myself as the leader at USDA, you on this
    Committee, along with others on the Committee, that we will
    work together to understand and hopefully solve for some of
    these problems, that the dairy cattle have to be milked.
        If we have got a mass deportation program underway, then
    there is a lot of work that we need to do, through the Labor
    Department, with Lori Chavez-DeRemer, who is also an ag person,
    and working with Congress to solve for a lot of this through
    our current programs, our current labor programs that are
    already on the books.
        Senator Schiff. Let me ask one other related question on
    this topic, and that is, if we deport a large percentage of our
    farm workforce, farm labor is going to be scarce. Isn't that
    inevitably going to push up food prices? If so, isn't that in
    sharp contrast with what the President said he wanted to do, to
    bring down egg prices and food prices and everything else?
        Ms. Rollins. Well, first of all, we are speaking in
    hypotheticals, but certainly these are hypotheticals we do need
    to be thinking through, and I think it is a very fair point.
    The President has made food inflation and the cost of food one
    of his top priorities. I have worked alongside him. I have been
    part of his team for many years now. I believe in his vision
    and his commitment to America and to his promises, and in so
    doing I believe that we will be able to find, in our toolkit,
    what we need to do to solve for any hypothetical issues that
    end up turning out to be real, moving forward, over the coming
    months and years.
        Senator Schiff. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I would just say
    that I hope they are hypothetical.
        Ms. Rollins. I do too.
        Senator Schiff. I fear they may be all too real.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, sir.
        Senator Schiff. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you. Senator Klobuchar is
    supposedly on the way, so I am going to ask one question.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Boozman. You are welcome to answer it. Then any
    thoughts that you have as you close. If she is here then, we
    are in great shape. If not, then we are out of here.
        Ms. Rollins. I am available all the time.
        Chairman Boozman. You are doing a wonderful job.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Boozman. Thank you. This hearing has been really
    good. We have had great participation, and because of that it
    just takes a while.
        Ms. Rollins. Yes, no. I am honored.
        Chairman Boozman. As you have heard, there are lots of
    questions, lots of concerns, lots of concerns in farm country.
    Not only that but people forget how broad the portfolio that
    you are taking on. We could be talking about crypto. We could
    be talking about a lot of stuff.
        Ms. Rollins. That is true.
        Chairman Boozman. We are not. Let me just ask you one thing
    that I do not think has come up is the fact that America's
    producers depend on USDA's voluntary, locally led conservation
    programs and conservation technical assistance to implement the
    most effective conservation practices that meet their
    operations' unique resource concerns.
        Unfortunately, in recent years, the focus has identified a
    lot of other things that maybe a top-down approach of pushing,
    prioritizing carbon sequestration, related activities on water
    quality, erosion control, and drought mitigation. Those things
    are important. Yet again, what I want you to talk about is the
    fact that you would be committed to voluntary, locally led,
    incentive-based conservation model that has served our farmers
    and ranchers for so many years, very effectively.
        Ms. Rollins. I would, Senator, and I know we all know that
    the best conservationists are our farmers and ranchers,
    certainly from the beginning of our country. One thing I do not
    think I have talked about with anyone on the Committee is that
    my family, on our farm in Minnesota, a piece of the land
    actually participated in one of those voluntary conservation
    programs. We actually have firsthand knowledge of what that
    looked like and how to do it, and believe certainly in how
    important and valuable it can be.
        Yes, sir, I look forward to it. Other than my personal
    experience--my sister, Ann, really led it, so I cannot pretend
    to know much, but I was very grateful for her and our family,
    that I do not know as much about it as I need to, and I look
    forward to learning more. Yes, you have my commitment that
    clearly that is an important piece of all of the work.
        Chairman Boozman. Have you got any closing comments?
        Ms. Rollins. I do have closing comments, but I am guessing
    that Senator Warnock might have another question or two.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Warnock.
        Senator Warnock. Thank you so very much, Chair Boozman.
    Just a couple more questions, and thank you so very much for
    your presentation this morning.
        Farmers in Georgia are already talking to me. They are
    already concerned about potential retaliatory actions following
    President Trump's promises to levy heavy tariffs. They are
    already dealing with slim margins, as I said in my first round
    of questions. It is a tough business. Much you do not control,
    and it is not difficult to find yourselves in trouble there.
    They are dealing with slim margins due to high input costs, and
    the last thing they need is to be caught up in the middle of a
    trade war that could drive up food prices for all of us.
        If confirmed, what will you do from your position at USDA
    to ensure that Georgia's farmers and families are not caught up
    in a trade war? Again, it is something I have worked on, by the
    way, with Republicans, helping to get our farmers' goods to
    market, so it is something we think about a lot.
        Ms. Rollins. Senator Warnock, when I was in your office, I
    believe last month, we talked about your commitment to your
    farmers and what a priority this was to you. Georgia is a very
    important agriculture state. You are obviously pastoring a
    church and in the U.S. Senate. I was impressed at your
    commitment to your ag community in your state, and look forward
    to continuing to work with you.
        It is very clear that the coming tariffs--and I think that
    there is no doubt that President Trump has been very
    transparent, that he believes this is an extremely important
    tool in his toolkit, to put America first, to revive the
    economy, to get us back to a place where he believes we need to
    be. I agree with him and hope to help him execute that vision.
        It also should not be surprising that his heart and his
    commitment to our farmers and our agriculture community was
    certainly clear in the last administration. The number one
    answer from my perspective is working around the clock to
    expand market access and working on new trade deals and getting
    new partners from around the world. I have an Under Secretary
    already named, hopefully get him committed--confirmed; maybe
    committed and confirmed, Chairman Boozman--but to get him
    confirmed very, very quickly so we can begin to build those
    teams. The President is a consummate deal maker, and I feel
    very confident we will be able to expand those markets, begin
    to peel back the trade deficit, and get back to trade
    surpluses, which I know we are used to.
        Immediately moving into the distribution of disaster
    relief, economic relief, the new farm bill that is coming out.
    I have already announced the Under Secretary and put the team
    in place to be able to deploy that.
        Senator Warnock. Let me press on, just because I have so
    little time. I agree with you that access to farm markets is
    critical, and in Georgia we have got a lot of sectors that are
    relying on strong export markets--timber, poultry, pecans. Are
    you concerned that isolationist trade practices may harm our
    farmers' ability to access these foreign markets?
        Ms. Rollins. I have full confidence in President Trump's
    ability to lead us on this, and hopefully he and many of you
    have confidence in my ability to help from the ag perspective.
        Senator Warnock. All right. I look forward to continuing to
    engage you on this, if you are confirmed.
        Ms. Rollins. Absolutely.
        Senator Warnock. USDA has a long documented and unfortunate
    history of racial discrimination, even in recent history. I was
    proud to have secured funding in the Inflation Reduction Act to
    provide financial assistance to farmers who had previously
    experienced discrimination at the hands of their USDA farm
    lending programs. This was a meaningful step in rebuilding
    trust.
        However, USDA still has a lot of work to do, and this will
    only be more difficult--more difficult--following the new
    Administration's executive order aimed at rolling back all of
    this progress. I was proud Congress passed my legislation in
    2021 to require USDA to create an Equity Commission, and the
    commission's final report provides an excellent roadmap for
    continuing this work.
        Chair Boozman, without objection, I would like to enter the
    USDA's 2024 Equity Report into the record.
        Chairman Boozman. Without objection.
        [The document can be found on pages 119-209 in the
    appendix.]
        Senator Warnock. Thank you so much. When we met last month
    you promised to read the equity report. Have you gotten a
    chance to read it yet?
        Ms. Rollins. Ninety pages and 66 recommendations. Yes, sir.
    Now, that has been about a little over a month ago, so please
    do not ask me to quote page 66. Yes.
        Senator Warnock. I am glad you got a chance to read it. I
    understand it has been removed from the website, or there is
    not access to it. I am glad you got a chance to read it.
        Will you seriously consider the recommendations of the
    Equity Commission's report if you are confirmed?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, let me answer this way. I was really
    appreciative of the conversation. For me, more knowledge is
    always best, understanding where everyone comes from, whether I
    agree or disagree, recognizing what is in the past is important
    but also realizing the path ahead----
        Senator Warnock. Will you----
        Ms. Rollins [continuing]. and how we forge the path.
        Senator Warnock. Will you consider the recommendations?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, I will consider anything that is on the
    table. I think that is only fair. I also--President Trump won
    on the concept of removing the diversity, equity, and
    inclusion, making sure that we are basing our decisions on
    merit, and I obviously support that 100 percent, as well. I
    look forward, Senator, to continuing to talk about this. My
    friend, Alveda, has long talked to me about the plight of Black
    farmers in Georgia and other places around the country. I am
    always open to discussions. Always.
        May I say, there is no room for racism at the United States
    Department of Agriculture, or any----
        Senator Warnock. In that regard, will you commit to
    recruiting more diverse employees who understand these
    communities, have relationships with these communities, so that
    we build trust between these communities and the lending
    offices?
        Ms. Rollins. Sir, my commit is to recruit the best
    workforce in the history of the United States Department of
    Agriculture, period, full stop. I believe that will include
    many members of all different corners of our country.
        Senator Warnock. Do you think a diverse workforce, high
    quality workforce are somehow oppositional objectives?
        Ms. Rollins. I think always hiring based on who is the best
    person for the job, who is going to do the most excellent
    service, who is best equipped to execute on all of the promises
    is the promise of America. Also believe, to your point, and
    have long held that ensuring that we give all people a chance
    to succeed and to thrive and for equal opportunity is a bedrock
    foundational principle of America.
        Senator Warnock. On that you and I agree. Thank you so very
    much.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. Senator Klobuchar.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Senator Boozman,
    and I am hoping these will be your last three questions. Your
    family looks like they might want to break for lunch, but they
    have been very good back there. I just want you to know that.
        Ms. Rollins. How have the teenagers been?
        Senator Klobuchar. Yes, good.
        Ms. Rollins. I have not been able to look at them, so they
    have not gotten any looks from me. Hopefully----
        Senator Klobuchar. According to recent reports, House
    Republicans are already eyeing nearly $300 billion in cuts to
    the SNAP program, roughly 30 percent cut. Now that is just
    reports. I think you have heard from some of my colleagues
    about how this is such an issue in rural America. In my state,
    as Senator Smith pointed out, our actual hunger rate is higher
    in rural than it is in the metropolitan areas.
        What kind of an impact do you think a $300 billion cut
    would have to SNAP, and if confirmed, will you commit to
    supporting robust funding for USDA's nutrition programs?
        Ms. Rollins. Senator, thank you. My commitment will always
    be to ensuring that these programs are effective and efficient,
    and I think I spoke from the heart, and I mean this sincerely,
    the importance of our leadership as a bipartisan body to ensure
    that those with the least among us are ably supported and do
    not go hungry. This is the United States of America.
        I do not yet know what the numbers look like. I need to
    really dig down. My commitment to you is that we will talk
    about this until the very last minute. I will always be open to
    you, and I look forward to ensuring that we are able to do what
    the original core tenets of that program are called to do.
        Senator Klobuchar. I will follow-up on this in a written
    question, but I do want to know if you believe SNAP benefits
    should be calculated based on current food costs.
        Ms. Rollins. Well, I will say that obviously current food
    costs, you know, the importance of the inputs into the program
    and understanding where the market is will always be a
    priority.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Congress made significant
    investments in climate-smart agriculture through the Inflation
    Reduction Act, giving more farmers access to popular
    conservation programs. We had a situation where a bunch of the
    farm groups actually were supportive of this part of the IRA.
        I have always led bipartisan legislation on conservation,
    working with our hunting and fishing groups. One of the bills I
    have has been with Senator Thune, based on voluntary
    conservation program participation.
        A recent executive order, issued just, of course, in the
    last two days, to pause disbursements from the Inflation
    Reduction Act would put some of these plans that I mentioned--
    CRP plans and the like--in jeopardy. What is your understanding
    of the impact of these executive orders, and will these orders
    to slow IRA disbursements impact farmers looking to use
    voluntary conservation programs?
        Ms. Rollins. My commitment is to obviously understand
    exactly what the target and the goal of that executive order
    is--I have not been read in on that yet, but I will be--and
    then ensuring that that aligns with what is stated in that
    executive order. Again, President Trump and our
    Administration's heart is with the rural communities and the
    agriculture communities and ensuring that there is full
    understanding and data to support what this will do.
        Of course, not surprisingly, Senator Klobuchar, I think the
    President has been very clear on his priorities on climate
    programs and whether taxpayer dollars should be supporting
    those.
        You know, the robust conversation I think that we will have
    is to follow, and I look forward to that, and you have my
    commitment that I am always available to discuss that and to
    represent ag interests, where appropriate, in those discussions
    with the White House.
        Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Thank you. I also just wanted to
    thank you for your commitment to the next generation of farmers
    and ranchers. As you know, the average age is, well, not quite
    as old as the U.S. Senate, but it has been creeping up, and we
    need new people to go into agriculture. I hope just with your
    background and your FFA involvement and the like, I think that
    would be among your many priorities would be a really smart
    thing to go around and talk about. I know there are plenty of
    people on our side of the aisle that would join you in that
    focus. Thank you.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Boozman. I want to thank Mrs. Rollins for
    appearing before the Committee today, and also I would like to
    thank Ranking Member Klobuchar and all the Members of the
    Committee for the great participation that we had today. The
    Ranking Member and I have agreed that questions for the record
    are due by 6 p.m. tomorrow. This concludes today's hearing.
        Ms. Rollins. Thank you so much. Thank you. What an honor to
    be here. Thank you.
        Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.
        [Whereupon, at 1:46 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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                                A P P E N D I X

                                January 23, 2025

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                       DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

                                January 23, 2025

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                             QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

                                January 23, 2025

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