[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                  INNOVATION AT THE SPEED OF MARKETS: HOW 
                   REGULATORS KEEP PACE WITH TECHNOLOGY
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIGITAL ASSETS, FINANCIAL 
                MTECHNOLOGY, AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 26, 2026

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-67

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       

                            www.govinfo.gov
              
                              __________
                              
                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
64-152 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
                           
                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                    FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Chairman

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan, Vice        MAXINE WATERS, California, Ranking 
    Chairman                             Member
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas, Vice 
PETE SESSIONS, Texas                     Ranking Member
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota                 DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                AL GREEN, Texas
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin               JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    Carolina                         JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             JUAN VARGAS, California
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
YOUNG KIM, California                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          RITCHIE TORRES, New York
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska                 NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas             CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
ANDREW OGLES, Tennessee              JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   SAM LICCARDO, California
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TROY DOWNING, Montana
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina

                      Ben Johnson, Staff Director

                                 ------                                

 SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIGITAL ASSETS, FINANCIAL TECHNOLOGY, AND ARTIFICIAL 
                              INTELLIGENCE

                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman

TOM EMMER, Minnesota, Vice Chairman  STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts, 
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan                  Ranking Member
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                BRAD SHERMAN, California
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              BILL FOSTER, Illinois
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
    Carolina                         AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             RITCHIE TORRES, New York
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
TROY DOWNING, Montana                SAM LICCARDO, California
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        Thursday, March 26, 2026
                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Bryan Steil, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Digital Assets, 
  Financial Technology, and Artificial Intelligence, a U.S. 
  Representative from Wisconsin..................................     1
Hon. Stephen Lynch, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Digital 
  Assets, Financial Technology, and Artificial Intelligence, a 
  U.S. Representative from Massachusetts.........................     2

                               STATEMENTS

Hon. Maxine Waters, Ranking Member of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from California................     3
Hon. French Hill, Chairman of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from Arkansas..................     3

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Randall Guynn, Director, Division of Supervision and 
  Regulation, Federal Reserve Board..............................     4
    Prepared Statement...........................................     6
Mr. Jay Gallagher, Senior Deputy Comptroller and Chief of 
  National Bank Examiner, Office of the Comptroller of the 
  Currency.......................................................    14
    Prepared Statement...........................................    16
Mr. Ryan Billingsley, Director, Division of Risk Management 
  Supervision, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.............    20
    Prepared Statement...........................................    22
Ms. Amanda Parkhill, Acting Director, Office of Examinations and 
  Insurance, National Credit Union Administration................    30
    Prepared Statement...........................................    32

                                APPENDIX

                   MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Hon. Sylvia R. Garcia:
    Workshop reviews risks to the economy, financial system from 
      third parties..............................................    64
Hon. Maxine Waters:
    Center for AI and Digital Policy (CAIDP).....................    68
    America's Credit Union.......................................    78

                 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Bryan Steil
    Mr. Ryan Billingsley.........................................    80
Written responses to questions for the record from Representative 
  Frank D. Lucas
    Mr. Randall Guynn............................................    82
    Mr. Jay Gallagher............................................    84

                              LEGISLATION

H.R. ----, the Financial Services Innovation Act of 2026.........    86

 
   INNOVATION AT THE SPEED OF MARKETS: HOW REGULATORS KEEP PACE WITH 
                               TECHNOLOGY

                              ----------                              


                        Thursday, March 26, 2026

             U.S. House of Representatives,
         Subcommittee on Digital Assets, Financial 
                                        Technology,
                       and Artificial Intelligence,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., 2128 
Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil, [chairman of 
the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Steil, Hill, Davidson, Rose, 
Timmons, Stutzman, Nunn, Downing, Lynch, Waters, Sherman, 
Foster, Garcia, Pettersen, and Liccardo.
    Chairman Steil. The Subcommittee on Digital Assets, 
Financial Technology, and Artificial Intelligence will come to 
order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess at any time.
    Today's hearing is titled ``Innovation at the Speed of 
Markets: How Regulators Keep Pace with Technology.''
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
within which to submit additional material to the chair for 
inclusion in the record.
    I now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
   SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIGITAL ASSETS, FINANCIAL TECHNOLOGY, AND 
 ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM WISCONSIN

    We meet at a moment when the pace of technological change 
is not just accelerating, it is redefining the very foundations 
of our financial systems. Innovation in areas like artificial 
intelligence, digital assets, and real-time payments is 
reshaping how Americans save, how they invest, and how they 
transact.
    The question before us is not whether this transformation 
will occur: It will. The real question is whether our 
regulatory framework is prepared to meet the moment. Regulators 
must evolve as quickly as the technologies that they oversee. A 
static approach to supervision in a dynamic environment is a 
recipe for failure.
    Agencies need the tools, expertise, and flexibility to 
understand the emerging risks without stifling innovation and 
the innovation that drives our economic growth. That means 
embracing new supervisory technologies, investing in talent, 
and engaging directly with innovators, not as adversaries, but 
as partners in building a safer and more resilient system.
    At the same time, we must be clear that fostering 
innovation is not optional. It is essential to maintaining the 
United States' global leadership. If we fail to create an 
environment where financial institutions and entrepreneurs can 
reasonably innovate, that innovation will simply move 
elsewhere. With it will go jobs, investment, and influence over 
the standards that will govern the future of financial markets. 
We should want the next generation of financial technologies to 
be developed here in the United States, grounded in 
transparency, accountability, and the rule of law.
    Regulators cannot and should not navigate this moment 
alone. Congress has an absolutely important role to play. We 
must provide clear direction to ensure that agencies approach 
innovation in a consistent, accountable, and transparent 
manner. Fragmentation and uncertainty serves absolutely no one. 
Through thoughtful oversight and, where necessary, legislative 
action, we can establish guardrails that both encourage 
innovation and protect consumers. Our responsibility is to 
strike that balance. If we get this right, we will not only 
keep pace with change, but we will also secure America's 
leadership in the financial system.
    I want to thank our witnesses for being here today, and I 
look forward to today's discussion.
    Chairman Steil. I will now recognize the ranking member of 
the subcommittee, Mr. Lynch, for 4 minutes for his opening 
statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHEN LYNCH, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
   SUBCOMMITTEE ON DIGITAL ASSETS, FINANCIAL TECHNOLOGY, AND 
      ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                         MASSACHUSETTS

    Mr. Lynch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 
holding this hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for your 
willingness to testify. We are grateful for your expertise and 
your perspective.
    Mr. Chairman, also as ranking member of the subcommittee, I 
have had the opportunity to participate in multiple hearings on 
financial technology (fintech) innovation and new products and 
new technologies. I want to be clear that I wholly embrace the 
idea that innovation in financial services can be a tremendous 
good. New tools and new products can actually expand access to 
credit and capital, lower cost to consumers, and help families 
build financial security but that promise, I believe, depends 
on whether new products serve those goals and whether adequate 
consumer protections are in place to ensure that they do.
    I am concerned that recent regulatory developments suggest 
where we might be moving in the opposite direction, at the 
direction of this White House. Under the Trump Administration, 
agencies are doing the opposite. The Securities and Exchange 
Commission (SEC) has dismantled several of the teams that are 
responsible for managing the incidents of scams and frauds. The 
White House has dismantled the Strategic Hub for Innovation and 
Financial Technology (FinHub), which is the dedicated office 
that built the agency's technical expertise on digital assets 
and fintech and related to crypto, there is no cop on the beat. 
The SEC has dropped most of the cases that they have had 
against firms that had been charged with misconduct.
    At the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, whose very 
mission is to ensure industry compliance with Federal consumer 
protections, the Trump Administration has gutted the agency by 
sending layoff notices to over 1,500 employees.
    Even at this hearing--and I appreciate you can only have a 
panel of a certain size because of the length of the hearing. 
We do not have the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) 
here. We do not have the SEC here, which are the two agencies 
that would bring enforcement actions to protect those consumers 
and investors.
    Mr. Lynch. With that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your 
willingness to bring--this is an important issue. I am grateful 
that we are bringing this up.
    I will yield my remaining time to the full committee 
ranking member, Ms. Waters of California.

STATMENT OF HON. MAXINE WATERS, RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE 
  ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Chair, I am deeply disappointed in the Committee 
Republicans' decision to exclude the Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau's testimony at today's hearing and how the 
Federal financial regulators are approaching innovative 
technologies. While the chairman has said he would invite 
Acting Director Vought to testify, we are still waiting for his 
long overdue testimony and the chance to hold them accountable.
    Last Congress, we heard from agencies on how they are 
engaging with newer technologies. Yet, today, Republicans did 
not even bother inviting the one agency dedicated to consumer 
protection.
    Now, while I am disappointed, I am not surprised. The Trump 
Administration and House Republicans have done everything they 
can to silence the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, our 
consumers' biggest advocate. While these are dark days for the 
CFPB and the American consumer, I am hopeful change is coming 
this November and if you like, you have the chair. Why do you 
not tell us why you did not invite them?
    I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back. The gentleman 
yields back. I now recognize the chairman of the full 
committee, Mr. Hill, for 1 minute for an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF HON. FRENCH HILL, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON 
    FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARKANSAS

    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Chairman Steil.
    Today's hearing focuses on a critical challenge for our 
financial system. Financial innovation is accelerating rapidly. 
Federal agencies have to keep pace with these new technologies, 
and that is a challenge inside a big Federal compliance and 
supervisory bureaucracy.
    This raises important questions about whether the agencies 
have the structure and the expertise to respond effectively, 
and we must ensure that our regulators evolve alongside the 
markets, the very markets that they oversee. That means 
examining how agencies organize their innovation efforts and 
ensure strong coordination with industry and technical leaders, 
whether through dedicated offices, embedded capabilities, or 
designated leadership.
    It also requires that agencies have the technical capacity 
to fulfill their mandates while enabling emerging technologies 
to flourish here in the U.S. I look forward to today's 
discussion on how we can make that regulatory approach stronger 
and more agile and promote innovation to ensure that America 
leads the world in financial technology.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    Today, we welcome the testimony of four witnesses. First, 
we have Mr. Randall Guynn, the director of the Division of 
Supervision and Regulation at the Federal Reserve Board. We 
have Mr. Jay Gallagher, the senior deputy comptroller and chief 
national bank examiner at the Office of the Comptroller of the 
Currency. We have Mr. Ryan Billingsley, the director of the 
Division of Risk Management Supervision at the Federal Deposit 
Insurance Corporation. We have Ms. Amanda Parkhill, the acting 
director of the Office of Examinations and Insurance at the 
National Credit Union Administration.
    We thank each of you for taking your time to be here. Each 
of you will be recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral 
presentation of your testimony. Without objection, your written 
statements will be made part of the record.
    I will now start with you, Mr. Guynn. You are recognized 
for 5 minutes for your opening remarks.

 STATEMENT OF RANDALL GUYNN, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SUPERVISION 
             AND REGULATION, FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD

    Mr. Guynn. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Lynch, and other members of 
the subcommittee, thank you for allowing me to testify today on 
behalf of the Federal Reserve Board.
    The Board recently announced that it intends to facilitate 
innovation in a manner consistent with safety and soundness and 
preserving U.S. financial stability. Innovation can improve the 
customer experience; expand product offerings; lower costs; 
increase credit availability; enhance efficiencies for banks, 
businesses, and customers; and support economic growth. 
Innovation is not without risk, however, and the Federal 
Reserve is committed to its mission of identifying and 
encouraging firms to mitigate any risks that threaten their 
safety and soundness or that threaten U.S. financial stability.
    Banks are generally free to choose their own business 
models and risk profiles, but when their activities threaten 
safety and soundness or financial stability, examiners act like 
referees in a soccer match who raise yellow or red cards in the 
form of supervisory observations, matters requiring attention, 
enforcement actions, or other supervisory measures.
    One way to strike the right balance between facilitating 
innovation and protecting the safety and soundness of the 
banking system is to be more transparent and encourage feedback 
from the public. We do this when we propose new rules because 
the Administrative Procedure Act requires us to provide public 
notice and comment, but most of our supervision is hidden from 
public view. To receive public feedback on our supervision, we 
need to voluntarily lift the curtain so that more of our 
supervision is visible to the public.
    The vice chair for supervision and I are deeply committed 
to making our supervision more transparent and publicly 
accountable. We demonstrated that commitment by releasing to 
the public in November our Statement of Supervisory Operating 
Principles. We demonstrated it again in January when we 
published the operating manuals for supervising the largest and 
most complex banking organizations. We will continue to 
demonstrate this commitment by releasing to the public many 
other procedure manuals and instructions to staff that have 
previously been kept confidential.
    My written testimony focuses on three areas, artificial 
intelligence, digital assets, and bank fintech partnerships. 
Artificial intelligence (AI) can improve operational 
efficiencies and enhance risk management capabilities. To 
facilitate the deployment of AI tools, Federal Reserve staff 
are working to better understand the available and emerging 
technologies. We are also exploring potential use cases to 
improve our own assessment and supervision of banking risk.
    Digital assets can offer many benefits to both banks and 
their customers. For example, payment stablecoins and tokenized 
deposits hold the potential to enable faster and cheaper 
payments. The Federal Reserve has taken a number of steps to 
better enable banks to engage with digital asset technologies. 
Looking ahead, we are considering how to provide additional 
clarity for banks that want to engage in digital asset 
activities.
    Bank fintech partnerships can provide a channel for banks 
of all sizes to access new technologies. They can promote a 
level playing field by allowing community banks to compete with 
larger banks that have more resources to invest in their own 
technologies.
    Thank you again. I look forward to any questions you may 
have.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guynn follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Gallagher, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for 
your opening remarks.

STATEMENT OF JAY GALLAGHER, SENIOR DEPUTY COMPTROLLER AND CHIEF 
  OF NATIONAL BANK EXAMINER, OFFICE OF THE COMPTROLLER OF THE 
                            CURRENCY

    Mr. Gallagher. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Lynch, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you. It is an honor to discuss the Office of the 
Comptroller of the Currency's work implementing one of 
Comptroller Gould's strategic priorities, which is supporting 
and keeping pace with responsible innovation within the Federal 
banking system.
    The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) was 
founded more than 160 years ago to ensure a safe, sound, and 
fair national banking system. Today, the OCC supervises more 
than 1,000 institutions that hold $17.9 trillion in assets, 2/3 
of all U.S. commercial banking assets, and have more than $90 
trillion in assets under administration.
    Since joining the OCC in 1992, I have had the opportunity 
to supervise banks of all sizes and complexities. Today, I 
serve as the senior deputy comptroller and chief national bank 
examiner. In this role, I lead the chief's office in efforts to 
develop risk analysis, policy, and data and systems management 
that support bank supervision. I also oversee the Office of 
Financial Technology, which supports innovation by facilitating 
industry engagement on bank fintech partnerships, artificial 
intelligence, digital assets, tokenization, and other emerging 
technologies.
    The OCC plays a central role in facilitating and defining 
responsible innovation across the Federal banking system. 
Accordingly, the OCC is improving how it evaluates new products 
and services, identifies potential risks, and serves as a 
resource to banks as they support a healthy U.S. economy. 
Specifically, the OCC champions safe and sound innovation 
through its chartering process, through its approach to digital 
assets and artificial intelligence, and by facilitating bank 
and technology firm relationships and partnerships.
    The OCC is uniquely responsible for chartering national 
banks. Renewed interest in chartering is a welcome return to 
the norm and a sign of a healthy banking system. As a 
technology-neutral regulator, the OCC evaluates all applicants 
in an even-handed fashion based on their proposed activities 
and consistent with applicable law and regulations.
    The technology that an applicant employs to deliver 
financial services and products should not determine whether an 
application for a charter is approved or denied. A decision 
should be made based on whether an applicant meets the 
applicable standards and can comply with the OCC's high 
supervisory expectations.
    With respect to digital assets, the OCC fosters safe and 
responsible innovation by first providing a supervisory 
environment for digital asset-focused businesses to grow 
safely; next, clarifying banks' ability to engage in permitted 
digital asset activities, including through a first-of-its-kind 
payment stablecoin regime under the Guiding and Establishing 
National Innovation for U.S. Stablecoins (GENIUS) Act. Digital 
assets and distributed ledger technology offer banks new 
opportunities to remain dynamic and competitive.
    As adoption rates increase at OCC-supervised banks, our 
goal is to ensure banks understand, manage, and mitigate their 
risks appropriately. Consistent with that goal, the OCC aims to 
foster an environment that provides new and existing banks of 
all sizes and opportunities to engage with payment stablecoins 
in a safe, sound manner.
    Last month, the OCC issued a notice of proposed rulemaking 
to implement the GENIUS Act. We look forward to stakeholders' 
comments as we implement the law's requirements.
    In addition to implementing a Federal framework for 
permitted payment stablecoin issuers, the OCC is facilitating 
the adoption of artificial intelligence by interested banks to 
improve business functions. The use of AI among banks is not 
new. However, recent developments, particularly generative and 
agentic AI, offer banks opportunities to automate and improve 
core operational, customer service, and other activities in 
novel ways. As these technologies evolve, the OCC aims to 
ensure adoption proceeds in a manner consistent with safety, 
soundness, and applicable law.
    Many banks utilize third-party technology providers to gain 
a competitive edge in a rapidly evolving marketplace. As the 
market continues to evolve, the OCC is actively developing 
regulatory approaches that right-size supervisory expectations, 
emphasize institution-specific risk management, and position 
the OCC to support community banks that utilize these 
relationships.
    The Federal banking system must remain dynamic, 
competitive, and fair. By providing banks with a path to safely 
embrace new technologies and modernizing supervision, the OCC 
is ensuring the long-term relevance of the Federal banking 
system. The OCC remains committed to engaging with Congress, 
the public, and other stakeholders on the policies and 
priorities outlined in my testimony.
    I look forward to answering your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Gallagher follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Mr. Gallagher.
    Mr. Billingsley, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF RYAN BILLINGSLEY, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF RISK 
 MANAGEMENT SUPERVISION, FEDERAL DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION

    Mr. Billingsley. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Lynch, 
members of the subcommittee, I am pleased to appear before you 
at today's hearing to examine how Federal bank regulators are 
keeping pace with technology and innovation.
    Fostering innovation in the banking system and embracing 
technology in our internal operations are critical to 
fulfilling the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation's (FDIC's) 
mission. As technologies like artificial intelligence and 
distributed ledger technology are being developed and deployed 
across the economy, it is essential that we enable banks to 
adopt these and other technologies while maintaining our 
expectations that they conduct their activities in a safe and 
sound manner and in compliance with consumer protection laws.
    The FDIC takes a technology-neutral, open-minded approach 
to innovation that strikes the right balance between prudent 
risk management and evolving with the times. Supervision reform 
has been a significant area of focus for the FDIC over the past 
year, and as part of that effort, we are taking steps to 
support bank adoption of new technologies that remove 
unnecessary involvement from supervisory staff.
    We are seeing banks adopt a range of technologies to 
improve operational efficiencies, expand product offerings to 
meet customer needs, and enhance customer interactions. Banks 
are increasingly using AI and machine learning in several 
areas, including fraud detection, anti-money laundering (AML) 
processes, and credit underwriting. Banks are testing and 
implementing new technologies to help bank staff respond to 
customer questions, summarize customer service calls, and 
summarize loan applicant financial information. Banks are 
providing banking services to cryptoasset entities, and we 
expect additional use cases to continue to emerge in all of 
these areas.
    A critical component of banks' adoption of technology 
pertains to their ability to engage and partner with third 
parties. We are evaluating a number of options to reduce 
regulatory barriers to banks' relationships with third parties, 
including working to update examination guidelines and refocus 
our priorities on material financial risks.
    Under Chairman Hill's leadership, the FDIC has taken a more 
open-minded approach to banks seeking to engage in digital 
asset activities while maintaining our supervisory expectation 
that these activities, just like any other activity, be 
conducted in a safe and sound manner.
    Last year, the FDIC rescinded a prior notification 
requirement for banks removing a barrier to responsibly 
participating in permissible cryptoasset activity. The FDIC 
recently issued a proposed rule to implement elements of the 
GENIUS Act that would establish a framework for FDIC-supervised 
banks to issue payment stablecoins. Consistent with the act, we 
expect to propose prudential requirements for FDIC-supervised 
payment stablecoin issuers soon, and we look forward to 
receiving comments on that proposal.
    Just as the FDIC must allow banks to adopt new technologies 
that enhance the efficiency of their operations, it is critical 
that the FDIC's own technology adoption keeps pace. The FDIC 
continues to advance a multiyear information technology (IT) 
modernization initiative designed to enhance the agency's 
technology environment. We are also piloting AI for internal 
staff use and expect to roll tools out to the workforce later 
this year. We are investing in workforce training to support 
the adoption of AI and other technologies.
    In closing, I would like to thank and acknowledge the team 
at the FDIC for their dedication, professionalism, and ongoing 
ability to deliver on the FDIC's mission. It is an honor to be 
associated with them and serve alongside them.
    Again, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you 
today and am happy to answer any questions.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Billingsley follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Mr. Billingsley.
    Ms. Parkhill, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF AMANDA PARKHILL, ACTING DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF 
       EXAMINATIONS AND INSURANCE, NATIONAL CREDIT UNION 
                         ADMINISTRATION

    Ms. Parkhill. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Lynch, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to 
discuss the efforts of the National Credit Union Administration 
(NCUA) to encourage innovation in financial technology.
    NCUA's mission is to enable access to financial services by 
facilitating safe, sound, and resilient credit unions. In 
meeting this mission, NCUA is aware that overregulation can 
stifle innovation and growth.
    Last December, NCUA launched the NCUA Deregulation Project, 
a long-term initiative aimed at methodically reviewing all 
regulations and revising them as needed, with the initial focus 
on any that are obsolete, duplicative of statute, intended to 
serve as guidance, or unduly burdensome. Currently, there are 
15 notices of proposed rulemaking available for public comment 
in the Federal Register.
    NCUA is unique among regulators, serving as both a 
regulator and insurer. There are approximately 4,300 federally 
insured credit unions that serve 145 million members. This 
includes over 2,600 federally chartered credit unions and 
nearly 1,600 state-chartered credit unions.
    As cooperatives, credit unions are well positioned to 
embrace the spirit of innovation, finding new ways to maximize 
efficiencies, pool resources, and meet member needs. Credit 
unions understand the connection between financial technology 
and inclusion. They have a long history of embracing 
technologies that enhance member service, including AI-powered 
tools for loan underwriting, virtual assistance, and fraud 
detection.
    The financial services industry is rapidly evolving with 
advances in AI, blockchain, and digital assets. NCUA is 
committed to supporting credit unions as they evaluate and 
implement these technologies. To that end, the agency added an 
AI resources page to our website in August 2025, and it 
includes use cases, AI implementation, risk management, data 
security, and cybersecurity risks.
    NCUA actively seeks stakeholder feedback on challenges 
related to technology adoption, which include regulatory 
interpretation, due diligence burdens on smaller firms, 
restrictive long-term contracts with service providers, and 
limited application programming interface (API) access that can 
make integration difficult for smaller institutions. These 
insights inform NCUA's ongoing work to ensure our regulatory 
framework supports responsible innovation.
    In December 2024, the NCUA Board voted to integrate 
financial technology expertise into the agency's Examination 
and Supervision Program, a key component of safeguarding the 
Share Insurance Fund. This realignment ensures our supervisory 
staff can effectively assess new technologies and their 
associated risks and opportunities.
    Beyond supervising how credit unions adopt technology, NCUA 
is also exploring how technology can enhance our own 
operations. NCUA is using AI for content generation to flag 
anomalies in call report data submissions, forecast loan 
performance to support risk analysis, identify credit unions 
with elevated risk, and enhance cybersecurity operations. NCUA 
is also evaluating opportunities through the General Services 
Administration's USAi Shared Services, which provides Federal 
agencies with access to multiple AI models in a federally 
secure environment. An internal working group is assessing the 
various tools, including estimated costs, use cases, and 
security and privacy considerations. These collaborative 
efforts will inform our strategy and decisions about deploying 
additional AI capabilities.
    The GENIUS Act establishes a comprehensive framework for 
payment stablecoins. Under the framework, federally insured 
credit unions may issue payment stablecoins through a 
subsidiary subject to NCUA licensing, governance standards, 
reserve requirements, and anti-money laundering controls. NCUA 
has moved promptly alongside our fellow regulators to implement 
this law. On February 11, we published a notice of proposed 
rulemaking establishing the application requirements for credit 
unions and their subsidiaries seeking approval to become 
permitted payment stablecoin issuers. The public comment period 
closes on April 13, and stakeholder input is welcome as we 
develop this framework.
    A forthcoming rulemaking will address issuer standards, 
including reserves, capital, liquidity, and risk management 
requirements, and we are working toward meeting Congress' 
deadline, ensuring that credit unions are not disadvantaged 
compared to other financial institutions.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to the committee's 
questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Parkhill follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Ms. Parkhill. I will 
now turn to member questions. I will recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    This subcommittee has been exploring new developments, 
technology in our financial system from digital assets and 
tokenization to AI. New capabilities bring great opportunities 
for our markets but also present new risk profiles which the 
regulatory frameworks must contend.
    I want to go right down the line, two questions, 30 seconds 
or less, from each of you, just to stage set if I can. We will 
start with you, Mr. Guynn, and work our way down. Can you give 
one concrete example of an action your agency has taken to keep 
pace with the technological change?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes. Late last year, the Federal Reserve Board 
issued a new policy statement on innovation where it stated 
that it would facilitate innovation as opposed to inhibiting 
it, provided that it is consistent with safety and soundness, 
and that animates what we are doing.
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Chair. At the OCC, we created an 
Office of Innovation in 2016 that is now the Office of 
Financial Technology, and that is a unit that continues to 
serve in that role on advancing in modern technologies and 
ensuring that information flows to our field staff as timely 
and readily as they can.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you.
    Mr. Billingsley. I will just add to what my colleague said. 
We recently, together with them early this month issued FAQs on 
tokenized securities, which I think is informative to capital 
requirements for those types of instruments. Basically, they 
amount to saying that the capital rules are generally 
technology neutral, which I think is useful in this context.
    Ms. Parkhill. In addition to guidance, we have issued over 
the last several years, earlier this month, our chairman held 
multiple roundtables on AI and digital assets to get 
information both from credit unions and industry about 
challenges and information and resources that would be helpful, 
and we are taking that information back and including it in any 
future guidance.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much. I think it is all 
about making sure that we are leveraging this technology and 
staying a step ahead of it. The human capital is absolutely 
essential.
    The second question that I want to bring to the table, I 
want to dive in a little bit more on AI. Obviously, we know AI 
can be used by bad actors, but AI can also be used to prevent 
bad actors from being successful in their endeavors to, in 
particular, scam consumers across the country.
    Same pattern here, we will start with you, Mr. Guynn. What 
is the most effective way your respective agency is using 
technology like AI to fight fraud?
    Mr. Guynn. It is interesting. We have actually put together 
a group that focuses on AI. We have actually started using it. 
For instance, one of the things we want to do is to look at the 
500 or Supervision and Regulation (SR) letters that have been 
issued, and AI has been incredibly helpful to identify those 
that might need to be repealed that go back to the 1990s, to 
summarize them, to provide something that really it would have 
taken staff a couple of months to put together, and AI put it 
together in a few hours.
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The OCC has a similar 
project internally where we are testing and utilizing new 
technologies, including AI, as it relates to evaluating where 
we can improve our guidance to the industry. We are not 
currently using artificial intelligence directly in 
supervision, but we are exploring use cases as a way to enhance 
and inform us as we go forward.
    Mr. Billingsley. The FDIC is piloting AI right now. I think 
the issue you raised, Mr. Chairman, around fraud is a good one. 
I think there is some promise there with things like alert 
monitoring, transaction testing, those types of things, so 
there is some promise there for sure.
    Ms. Parkhill. We are using it internally in our cyber 
operations, finding it particularly useful in helping to block 
threats related to phishing and malicious attachments.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much. I think, like any new 
technology, there is risk and opportunity, and it is about 
leveraging the opportunity and working to downsize risk.
    I think we have seen a real change from where we are today 
from where we were in the Biden Administration where it was 
hindering innovation, development, and growth in the private 
sector through punitive regulations for emerging technologies. 
I think now, under the Trump Administration, the area of 
stifling innovation is over. I think we have a real opportunity 
to embrace technology to the benefit of consumers and maintain 
the United States as the dominant financial markets.
    I want to come to you, Mr. Gallagher. You are nonpolitical, 
but have you seen a shift in tone at the OCC as it relates to 
embracing technology for the benefits that it can bring?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As Comptroller Gould 
has stated before and continues to reiterate, a failure to 
innovate is in itself a significant risk to the banking system. 
Consistent with that view, the comptroller has publicly noted 
the last administration focused heavily on preventing downside 
risk, particularly in areas like digital assets, often at the 
expense of innovation. Under the comptroller's leadership, our 
agency is focused on partnering with banks to ensure legally 
permissible banking activities, including digital asset-related 
activities, have a place in the financial system if they are 
conducted in a safe and sound manner.
    Chairman Steil. Suffice it to say, you have seen a shift in 
tone?
    Mr. Gallagher. We are clearly embracing the opportunity to 
see that the industry can do what they can.
    Chairman Steil. Thank you very much. I yield back.
    I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, the 
gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Guynn and Mr. Billingsley, you are both responsible for 
supervision. Let me ask you, prediction markets here in the 
U.S. have grown from a niche financial product into a major 
player in our financial system. Just back in August, there was 
a market of about $2 billion. Now it is $18 billion in the 
prediction markets and that is just Kalshi and Polymarket.
    The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) currently 
treats prediction markets contracts as financial derivatives 
and not gambling, which I believe it should be, but recent 
reversals by the agency now allow prediction market services to 
offer contracts on items like congressional elections and 
different geopolitical events, leading to tens of millions of 
dollars being placed on events such as whether there will be a 
cease-fire in Iran by June 30. Just that specific question has 
about $48 million in total bets right now as we sit here.
    This, to me, allows for these platforms to open the door to 
insider trading at a scale where key individuals can make a 
lifetime of earnings on a single bet using material, nonpublic, 
classified, or top-secret information. As the United States and 
Israel prepared for and later launched strikes against Iran, 
there were traders in these prediction markets online, and they 
wagered over $1 billion on every single aspect of that 
conflict.
    There was a single trader who made nearly $1 million from 
dozens of well-timed bets correctly predicting U.S. and Israeli 
military operations against Iran, winning about 93 percent of 
their five-figure wages on unannounced, classified military 
operations. Many of these bets were placed just hours before 
the strikes occurred.
    Six newly created accounts made approximately $1 million by 
correctly betting that the U.S. would strike Iran before 
February 28. They bought up cheap contracts just days before 
the attack, and investigators in Israel have already indicted 
two individuals, including a military reservist, for allegedly 
using classified materials to place bets on these platforms.
    The danger here is it is not just insider trading. If 
insider traders can front-run our military decisions, so can 
our adversaries using AI, eventually putting our sons and 
daughters in uniform at grave risk. This is not simply a 
consumer protection problem, it is a national security problem. 
When financial incentives can be created around the timing of 
classified military operations, the existence of these markets 
may itself create a pressure to leak or, worse, to shape the 
decisions of war and peace around trading positions.
    Mr. Guynn, the Federal Reserve has a mandate to identify 
and address risks to financial stability. In your view, does 
this rapid escalation of scaling of prediction markets and the 
documented pattern of what appears to be insider trading rise 
to the level of systemic risk that is a concern for the Federal 
Reserve?
    Mr. Guynn. Thank you very much. I am not sure that it does 
now. Certainly, we monitor anything that could be a serious 
risk to financial stability. As far as I am aware, banks, at 
least the institutions that we regulate, are not allowed to 
trade in these contracts. I think perhaps they lend to 
institutions that are involved in this business so----
    Mr. Lynch. Do you think it should be perhaps regulated as 
gambling if this is the way it is going to be used?
    Mr. Guynn. I do not know if the Federal Reserve would have 
a view on that, but----
    Mr. Lynch. Okay.
    Mr. Guynn [continuing]. that is----
    Mr. Lynch. Mr. Billingsley?
    Mr. Billingsley. I think I would agree with my colleague. I 
do not know if the FDIC has a role to play here, but I would 
agree with my colleague as well that I am not aware of any 
FDIC----
    Mr. Lynch. Mr. Gallagher or Ms. Parkhill, any thoughts on 
this?
    Mr. Gallagher. Nothing additional.
    Mr. Lynch. Okay.
    Ms. Parkhill. Nothing.
    Mr. Lynch. Mr. Guynn, are the existing legal and regulatory 
frameworks sufficient to address the risk? Would you suggest 
what Congress might do next to just address this risk of 
insider trading?
    Mr. Guynn. Well, certainly, I think looking at the SEC, the 
SEC I think is the organization that generally regulates 
insider trading, so I think----
    Mr. Lynch. Yes.
    Mr. Guynn [continuing]. you know that is probably the place 
for Congress to look----
    Mr. Lynch. Yes.
    Mr. Guynn [continuing]. or maybe the CFTC.
    Mr. Lynch. Ideally, that would be a great question for the 
SEC off of CFPB. Maybe we will do that at a future hearing.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    The chairman of the full committee, the gentleman from 
Arkansas who has got a big basketball game to watch tonight, 
Mr. Hill, is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Chairman Hill. I thank the sensitivity of the chair. I 
appreciate that. Go Hogs.
    This is a great panel. Thank you for being here. Thanks for 
bringing your expertise. Thanks for your decades of service to 
a safe and sound banking and credit union system, big deal. You 
have devoted your careers to it, so thank you.
    When I think back about my service at the Treasury, I spent 
a lot of hours in the Federal Financial Institutions 
Examination Council (FFIEC) persuading them to do things in a 
harmonious way and to try to streamline the compliance process. 
As a bank CEO, certainly watch technology flow through both try 
to bank expertise and in-the-field examiner expertise, and I 
want to thank all your agencies for the dollars you spend on 
training and collaboration in that space because it is rapidly 
changing, and you do have to teach your examiner force new 
tricks and bring them along.
    Over the decades, I have seen that transition from the 
people who survived the 1980s in Texas and the 1990s in the S&L 
crisis and resolution to today's modern post-global financial 
crisis examining force, so thank you for the work you have 
done.
    When it comes to this technology arena, I am interested 
particularly in the FDIC and the Federal Reserve (Fed), your 
point of view of working with State bank supervisors since you 
have got Fed member banks and Fed non-member banks.
    If I could start with you, Mr. Guynn, tell me a little bit 
about how you work with State bank commissioners on this 
technology adaptation issue.
    Mr. Guynn. Sure, yes. We just had a conference with the 
Conference of State Bank Supervisors (CSBS) where we talked 
about a variety of things, including regulating banks. I think 
that we have a good relationship. I think we are trying to work 
together constructively with them in terms of promoting 
innovation in a safe and sound manner and making sure that we 
address the financial stability issues that they may raise as 
well.
    Chairman Hill. Do you sense that when you meet with your 
examiner force that they are in a capacity where they really--I 
do not want to say they are on the leading edge of it, but I 
remember when we went to the cloud and we tried to do internal 
and external penetration testing, in some instances the State 
examiners were better trained than some of the Federal ones and 
vice versa. That is a long time ago now, obviously. Do you 
sense that we really have a parallel training level of 
expertise in both forces, State and Federal?
    Mr. Guynn. I know that we sort of share resources on 
training.
    Chairman Hill. Yes.
    Mr. Guynn. At the Federal Reserve, we do training through 
the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis. I know that in the 
meetings in the last couple of days this week, there was 
discussion about sharing training resources to help train 
people on all the emerging technologies.
    Chairman Hill. Good. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Billingsley, do you want to comment on that?
    Mr. Billingsley. Certainly. I do have very regular, 
recurring conversations with both CSBS and a number of the 
commissioners. Their partnership is not only on innovation but 
just more broadly about supervision is incredibly important, so 
I value that very much.
    On the topic of skill sets across the State regulatory 
environment, it is my sense that we do work together, we do 
train together, we learn from one another, so that partnership 
is very, very important.
    Chairman Hill. Good. Well, I hope that also takes it 
through the FFIEC process to coordinate it, leading with the 
OCC as well and NCUA on the exam standards in this process. I 
hope you guys and ladies all can stay on the same page. We do 
not have a lot of differences there.
    In the last minute, I want to talk about one of the most 
interesting emerging technologies, which is converting certain 
financial services functions to the use of a blockchain, as 
opposed to a traditional computer system. I view something like 
a dollar-backed stablecoin as a transitional product that is--I 
say transitional on purpose because I think the future is going 
to be financial institutions actually tokenizing their 
deposits.
    Could I ask each of you to say, are you working on the 
oversight necessary to allow a bank to actually debit cash and 
tokenize a deposit on a blockchain? I will start with you, Mr. 
Guynn.
    Mr. Guynn. In my prior life, I wrote various opinions on 
whether it was permissible to tokenize deposits, and mostly 
they were positive. What is interesting is that the--and maybe 
Mr. Billingsley can talk about this more, but the FDIC chair 
gave a speech a week or two ago suggesting that the FDIC is 
going to clarify that tokenized deposits can be FDIC insured 
just like any non-tokenized deposit.
    Chairman Hill. I will stop there. If each of you would 
respond to that question in writing, it would be helpful to me.
    Thank you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from California, the ranking member of the 
full committee, Ms. Waters, is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Gallagher, following the Trump Administration's 
military strike in Venezuela this year, Trump disclosed that he 
had held conversations with all the oil companies before and 
after the raid. This raises an extremely serious and familiar 
pattern of insiders appearing to profit ahead of market-moving 
Trump Administration decisions. We already saw this before when 
public officials with close ties to the administration made 
trades prior to major tariff announcements.
    I am also worried that by weakening enforcement, there is 
no true oversight of potential wrongdoings and regulators 
potentially profiting from the use of material, nonpublic 
information. Mr. Gallagher, what agency policies are violated 
if OCC employees engage in any prediction markets?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. As a Federal agency, 
all of our staff are subject to the Office of Government Ethics 
rules as well as our internal policies, so we will follow them 
accordingly. Anybody that needs assistance with them, we have 
legal support to go through that.
    Ms. Waters. I think Mr. Lynch asked you a question that you 
had no answer to. Do you recall what he asked you?
    Mr. Gallagher. Which question was that?
    Ms. Waters. I will yield to you, Mr. Lynch, for that 
question. Yes, you asked Mr. Gallagher a question that he had 
no answer to.
    Mr. Lynch. Sorry for the crossfire. It was a question 
regarding the prediction markets, and probably a better 
question for the SEC or CFPB, who are not here today.
    Ms. Waters. Mr. Gallagher, are you at all concerned that 
agency policies are being violated? Are you really concerned? 
What are you going to do about it?
    Mr. Gallagher. Congresswoman, I assume you are talking 
about Congressman Lynch's questions on prediction markets. 
Again, the OCC does not have rules on those, and it is not our 
place to make rules. To the extent exposures or risks would 
come into the banking system, we certainly would, as we would 
with any safety and soundness issue, take appropriate efforts 
to ensure we understand it and make sure the banks are 
complying with applicable law.
    Ms. Waters. Continuing, since the explosion of prediction 
markets in the fall of 2024, especially betting on political 
events, how is the agency responding?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congresswoman. The agency is not 
responding. That is not our--unless it is in the banking system 
or within the context of your question, our staff, again, would 
come under the rules and expectations of our ethics officials 
and our legal department.
    Ms. Waters. Are you telling us your agency is not 
increasing its oversight of agency employees, profiting from 
the use of material, nonpublic information?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. I am not 
particularly aware, but I believe that is probably best 
directed at our chief counsel's office, and I would be happy to 
get you a response.
    Ms. Waters. Mr. Guynn, yes or no answer, please. Is your 
agency increasing its oversight of agency employees, profiting 
from the use of material, nonpublic information?
    Mr. Guynn. I think we have always and continue to oversee 
and have rules so that they do not engage in insider trading 
and trade on material, nonpublic information.
    Ms. Waters. Mr. Billingsy, what about you?
    Mr. Billingsley. Likewise, I agree with my colleague from 
the Fed.
    Ms. Waters. Ms. Parkhill, what about you?
    Ms. Parkhill. I think this would be a question for our 
ethics office of any training that would be provided on top of 
current expectations.
    Ms. Waters. Mr. Guynn, on October 21, 2025, Fed Governor 
Christopher Waller announced that the Fed is looking at 
providing so-called ``skinny'' Fed master account to 
potentially allow eligible firms to have direct access to Fed 
payment rails, though without the full suite of services that 
banks typically get. This has resulted in opposition from bank 
and trade groups, including the Bank Policy Institute, American 
Bankers Association, and Independent Community Bankers of 
America, who argue that standards should be consistently 
applied across reserve banks. Additionally, the Federal Reserve 
Bank of Kansas City recently approved Kraken, a crypto company, 
for access to a Fed master account.
    Mr. Guynn, how are you responding to these concerns?
    Mr. Guynn. Well, we have a request for information out on 
the proposed skinny master account, so everyone will have an 
opportunity and be very visible to see what the public comments 
are on that. And----
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman's time has expired. The 
gentleman can----
    Ms. Waters. Thank you. I yield back. I wish we had more 
time. You guys are not----
    Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Rose, is recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member 
Lynch, for holding this important hearing, and thanks to our 
witnesses for your time today.
    Mr. Billingsley, you noted that small banks in particular 
rely on third-party relationships to access innovative 
technologies, and that the FDIC is reevaluating guidance and 
updating examination practices around those relationships. How 
do you see reducing unnecessary regulatory friction in bank 
third-party partnerships helping small banks adopt new tools 
and what is the FDIC doing to ensure that this kind of 
innovation can flourish in the U.S.?
    Mr. Billingsley. Thank you. Two things come to mind. First, 
we are considering updating outstanding guidance on third-party 
risk management standards more generally to see if we can 
better tailor that, particularly for our community banks. I 
think, second, we have taken a more open-minded approach over 
the last 12 to 18 months with respect to banks' engagement with 
third parties, which I believe has helped to remove any barrier 
that might have been there for banks that wanted to adopt that 
sort of partnership or that sort of engagement with a third 
party.
    Mr. Rose. When you say considering updating guidance, do 
you mean you are in the process of updating guidance, or are 
you evaluating whether or not you should update guidance?
    Mr. Billingsley. We are in the process.
    Mr. Rose. Okay. Very good. Ms. Parkhill, I recently read a 
McKinsey article about how emerging agentic AI tools could help 
financial institutions better detect and prevent financial 
crimes. I believe these kinds of technologies have tremendous 
potential to strengthen the safety and soundness of our banking 
and credit union system. What is NCUA doing to ensure that the 
adoption of promising anti-fraud and financial crime-fighting 
AI tools is not slowed down by unnecessary regulatory red tape?
    Ms. Parkhill. The first thing is we have a consistent 
message that we encourage credit unions to use innovative 
technologies in a safe and sound manner to be more efficient 
and effective in their operations and we are looking at all of 
our regulations right now through our Deregulation Project to 
ensure that there are not any prohibitions or requirements that 
would prohibit credit unions from using technology in that way.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. Is it your sense that in reviews or 
audits that your examiners, are they encouraged to kind of have 
an open mindset about what the institutions are doing?
    Ms. Parkhill. That is the message that we are giving to 
both credit unions and our examiners and specific to anti-money 
laundering and fraud, that has been a use case that has been in 
place for quite some time, and I think it is pretty mature. So, 
we have seen it and examiners are aware of it.
    Mr. Rose. Good.
    Mr. Gallagher, I would like to ask you a similar question. 
How is the OCC supporting the adoption of promising artificial 
intelligence tools that can help banks detect and prevent 
financial crime while still maintaining strong supervisory 
standards?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. The OCC regularly 
meets with banks, firms, and other stakeholders to understand 
how the industry is approaching these. We have for years 
expressed a willingness and an appetite to encourage the banks 
to look for ways to improve their systems using technologies 
that can help them do so. We also went out last year with a 
request for information for feedback on banks' challenges with 
significant third parties. We are evaluating that. We are also 
evaluating and in the process of determining if we need to 
update our guidance on third-party risk management as well.
    Mr. Rose. Again, as a follow up, do you feel like your 
examiners in the field have the proper leeway or encouragement 
to have an open mindset when they see things that are new?
    Mr. Gallagher. I certainly do. We have seen--I mean, the 
current pace of innovation is obviously much faster, but this 
is nothing new. We have seen banks innovate throughout our 
history as an organization and certainly throughout my career.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. Mr. Guynn, your testimony highlights 
how AI can enhance examiner training and help process the vast 
amount of data regulators rely on. Can you speak more about how 
these kinds of tools could modernize supervision and help 
regulators keep pace with rapid technological change?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes, so just yesterday I saw some new technology 
to get a lot of data gathered from reports otherwise hard to 
get. The team actually used artificial intelligence to enhance 
it in a way where they said it would have taken months to 
actually have the team do it, and the AI was able to do it in a 
matter of days. The difference between the old table of 
information and the new was quite extraordinary. I was asking 
them, can you add this, can you add that? They were quite 
positive that we would be able to get more and more useful data 
to supervise with.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Stutzman [presiding]. Thank you. The gentleman yields 
back.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Sherman, the ranking 
member of the Subcommittee on Capital Markets, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sherman. We see often that people, particularly in the 
tech world, want to do something that we are already doing, but 
they put a high-tech name on it, and then they say, therefore, 
there should not be any regulation. I know that there is a bill 
before us to create a special technology unit in the bank 
regulators. I sure hope that is not a system for saying, well, 
you just claim to be technological, you go to the special unit, 
and they liberate you from all the consumer protection and 
prudential protection laws that we need so much.
    I heard the chairman of the full committee talk about 
tokenization of bank deposits. We kind of have that now. There 
is money in my account. I can automated clearinghouse payments 
(ACH) it to your account, calling that tokenization rather than 
the 20th century term of a wire transfer. I am sure we can do 
it better, but we should not be liberating it from all of the 
oversight just because we are doing it in a slightly different 
manner.
    I am particularly concerned about non-banks getting into 
this area and escaping all the regulations that are necessary. 
Banks are highly regulated. They are supervised for compliance 
with consumer protection as well as safety and soundness 
requirements. However, many non-banks and technology companies 
offer financial products and services, and they say they are 
innovative, and therefore are not subject to the same degree of 
oversight.
    Mr. Guynn, should financial activities that are basically 
the same be subject to the same regulation, whether they are 
done by a bank or a non-bank?
    Mr. Guynn. That is certainly a principle that the board 
adheres to, which is same risk, same activity, same regulation. 
Part of the problem, though, is we do not have jurisdiction 
over some of the non-bank institutions that are engaged in this 
activity, so our ability to look at that or oversee it is 
limited.
    Mr. Sherman. Thank you. We have seen a study by Meta saying 
that 10 percent of its annual revenue, approximately $16 
billion, is derived from advertisements for scams and banned 
goods. Internal documents suggest that there may be as many as 
15 billion high-risk scam ads every day. Many of our telecom 
carriers continue to facilitate pig butchering and spoofing 
schemes. Ms. Parkhill, have you been in contact with your 
counterparts at other agencies as the best way to tackle this 
kind of fraud, particularly as it relates to our financial 
institutions?
    Ms. Parkhill. We are also concerned about fraud and 
financial crimes, and we work closely through either FFIEC or 
other avenues. In the last few years, we have issued joint 
releases, statements on elder abuse fraud. It is definitely 
something that we will work together on when appropriate.
    Mr. Sherman. AI is pattern recognition and predicting the 
future by looking at the patterns of the past but often, the 
past and the patterns you recognize there are just reflections 
of the racism of our country. You might do pattern recognition 
and say people born in certain ZIP codes, people who went to 
high schools with certain percentages of non-White students are 
more likely to be unsuccessful financially, and I am sure last 
century that was true. I hope this century it is not. I know a 
study that was done as to success in financing, you are more 
likely to be successful if your name is Jared rather than 
Jesus.
    What are we doing--and I will ask this of Mr. Gallagher. 
What are we doing to regulate banks so that they are not just 
using AI to look at the patterns of financial success of the 
past that are in effect tokens for racism and applying those to 
particularly the lending decisions of the future?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. I will start with my 
observation that the financial institutions we regulate are 
also very sensitive to making sure the tools they implement are 
also compliant with the law, but in their business model, they 
are in an effort to book compliance.
    Mr. Sherman. Is there a system to say, okay, you found a 
pattern, you want to use it in decisions, is that just a 
reflection of racism?
    Mr. Gallagher. Yes, there are systems, and we evaluate not 
only the safety and soundness but the compliance with law as 
they go through that and expect they have that embedded in 
their risk management program----
    Mr. Stutzman. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Gallagher [continuing]. before they release those.
    Mr. Stutzman. All right. The gentlemen's time has expired. 
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    As the subcommittee has explored new technologies such as 
artificial intelligence, we have heard about the benefits that 
the private sector and consumers will see from adoption. We 
must ensure that the same technology revolutionizing our 
financial sector can also bring benefits to regulation and 
supervision itself.
    So I would like to ask all of you, if you could in about 30 
seconds to 45 seconds, how are your agencies thinking about the 
adoption of AI and what benefits can AI bring to supervising 
the entities under your jurisdiction? I will start with you, 
ma'am.
    Ms. Parkhill. We see the benefit AI has in reviewing large 
sets of data, both structured and unstructured, and also 
quickly analyzing that data. So, there are a lot of use cases 
we are looking at for efficiencies in risk oversight, 
examination scoping, and building models for identifying risk.
    Mr. Stutzman. Thank you.
    Mr. Billingsley. I would agree with everything my colleague 
just said. I would only add to that there is some promise 
there, too, with respect to ongoing offsite analytics. Large 
sets of data that we could analyze more quickly offsite would 
be super helpful.
    Mr. Stutzman. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Gallagher. Similarly, I would characterize AI as it has 
been around a long time, so we are very focused on not only how 
we leverage machine learning, et cetera, data scientists to 
study the risks in the system but now looking at use cases with 
respect to generative AI or agentic AI and how we can improve 
our risk management or oversight of the system.
    Mr. Stutzman. Very good. Sir?
    Mr. Guynn. All the same, except an additional thing is that 
we are trying to take the technology we have developed in 
stress testing, combine it with AI, to try to identify material 
risks to financial institutions in the system much earlier than 
we can now and to try to have AI help us decide what sort of 
action to take as early as possible so it can be more 
proportionate and less reactive.
    Mr. Stutzman. Great. Thank you. During the Biden 
Administration, the Fed established the Novel Activities 
Supervision Program through Supervision and Regulation Letter 
23-7. This program was a part of the Biden Administration's 
Operation Choke Point 2.0 and stifled digital asset innovation 
through burdensome requirements imposed on financial 
institutions. This committee has helped President Trump reverse 
the Biden Administration's anti-innovation agenda, including 
Operation Choke Point 2.0, through stablecoin and digital asset 
market structure legislation. In addition, in August, the Fed 
rescinded SR 23-7, stating that the board had integrated these 
activities into its standard supervisory process.
    Mr. Guynn, how has the Federal Reserve integrated 
supervision of fintech and crypto activities by member banks 
into the supervisory process? What has gone into making sure 
supervisors and examiners understand these innovations and how 
has the process improved?
    Mr. Guynn. Okay. First of all, I think our experience with 
the novel banking program was that it was not consistent with 
the policy that we announced a few months ago of facilitating 
innovation consistent with safety and soundness. So, we decided 
after watching it in practice for a while, that we would change 
that practice.
    Now, innovation is encouraged or facilitated like any other 
activity. In many ways, we let the banks drive what it is they 
want to innovate to do, and our job is to, as I said in my 
opening testimony, if we see something that is unsafe or 
unsound, then we will raise a yellow card or a red card, but 
otherwise, we let the banks choose what they think is in their 
interest and the interest of their customers.
    Mr. Stutzman. Following up on that, how will the 
integration of digital asset and fintech activities into the 
supervisory process improve U.S. competitiveness and enhance 
innovation?
    Mr. Guynn. Well, I think the more we integrate into our 
supervisory process, the more we will understand it, and we 
will be able to facilitate it safely. I think if we can do 
that, then the U.S. will be a leader in innovation in a way 
that the public feels comfortable with and will actually be 
viewed as beneficial, and so it does make us more competitive 
relative to other countries.
    Mr. Stutzman. Right. Just really quick, I want to talk 
about credit unions. Ms. Parkhill, could you speak about what 
you have done since its establishment and what your office 
hopes to accomplish going forward?
    Ms. Parkhill. We have instituted a number of outreach 
efforts, including office hours and structured meetings with 
both credit unions and vendors over the last several years. We 
have also issued guidance and resources around AI, digital 
assets, and fintech. Going forward, our large focus will be on 
stablecoins, and digital assets and the new authorities granted 
to credit unions under the GENIUS Act.
    Mr. Stutzman. Great. Thank you. Great timing, too.
    The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Foster, who is the ranking 
member of the Subcommittee on Financial Institutions, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you Mr. Chair, and to our witnesses.
    This committee has had multiple hearings on ways to counter 
financial scams and fraud. I hear from community bankers in my 
district regularly about the increase in everything from online 
identity fraud to check fraud to more complicated AI, deepfake 
scams. Almost all of these involve, at their heart, identity 
fraud.
    In the GENIUS Act, Treasury was mandated to provide 
recommendations to Congress on ways to reduce illicit 
transactions in digital finance. In the report that they issued 
this month, Treasury stated that it would issue new guidance to 
firms on how they can utilize mobile driver's license, digital 
ID that lives on your cell phone, and other verifiable digital 
credentials in the know your customer (KYC) process for 
customer identification.
    As you all know, setting up KYC is one of the biggest 
barriers to entry for fintechs and de novo banks, as well as an 
ongoing cost for small community banks and large banks as well. 
Being able to use a real ID-compliant digital driver's license, 
so you smile at your cell phone, do your biometric login, 
present your government-issued real ID credential, and then 
being able to use that in conjunction with some API check to 
FinCEN to satisfy KYC requirements would really be a 
gamechanger, especially for online enrollment of new customers.
    Are any of your agencies working with Treasury now to issue 
that guidance or otherwise taking steps to make it clear to 
financial institutions that they can and should be looking into 
making use of mobile driver's licenses for that purpose? I 
guess we will just go down the line.
    Mr. Guynn. I do not know the answer to that question, but I 
am going to find out, and I will get back to you, Congressman.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you.
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. We are not yet, but 
we will certainly engage as the Treasury Department moves 
forward on that initiative.
    Mr. Billingsley. I am not aware of an engagement, but I 
would be happy to follow up.
    Mr. Foster. Okay.
    Ms. Parkhill. I am also not aware but know that we do 
coordinate closely with Treasury and FinCEN and we will do so 
if asked.
    Mr. Foster. Yes, that is an area where the United States 
may be falling behind because I think by the end of this year, 
every EU citizen is going to have the ability to present a 
citizenship app and validate their existence as a legally 
traceable EU citizen, the U.K. as well also on a similar 
timescale. So that will be a huge competitive advantage for 
those countries that adopt these, and so I urge you to take 
that Treasury recommendation seriously and move as fast as you 
can.
    Now, I am also very concerned that in the emerging world of 
24/7 payments and hygienic finance that bank runs are going to 
become faster and more frequent. The Silicon Valley Bank saw 
more than $40 billion flee the institution in about 2 days, 
driven pretty much at the speed of internet gossip. Soon, we 
are going to be facing bank runs at the speed of agentic AI 
where everyone is going to tell their personal AI advisor and 
agent to keep an eye on the bank, and if you even hear a rumor 
that the bank is in trouble, just get my money out. In a 
situation like that, situations like Silicon Valley Bank could 
then take place in a matter of minutes and I am not sure we are 
ready for that.
    To manage it, it seems that, first of all, that the 
regulators are going to need real-time insight into the 
financial conditions of institutes of all sizes so that they 
are ready to step in on a moment's notice on Sunday in the 
middle of the night. This is a big change in the way you 
operate right now.
    I think you may also need to have the equivalent of pre-
pledged collateral and so on understood. If the regulator has 
to step in to save a bank that is under threat from either a 
real financial disclosure or simply a rumor, that it has got to 
know in real time what the solvency situation of that 
institution is.
    I was wondering first off, are we ready for it today? Are 
we preparing for it? I guess we will go down the line starting 
on the right.
    Ms. Parkhill. We are definitely aware of that concern and 
have several liquidity options to provide credit unions if 
needed, either through our Share Insurance Fund, borrowing 
through Treasury, or the Central Liquidity Facility (CLF). We 
have options and playbooks ready in case of liquidity stress in 
the system or runs either in the credit union industry or with 
banks. So, we are looking at this closely and prepared.
    Mr. Foster. You think you are prepared so that if this 
Sunday night at 2 in the morning, everyone's AI personal agent 
says, oh, I have just learned on a Moltbook of a rumor that 
this bank is in trouble, that you think you are ready for it?
    Ms. Parkhill. I think as soon as the credit union 
recognizes that they are in need, we have the resources to help 
them.
    Mr. Foster. Are they monitoring this so that they will know 
in 20 minutes in the middle of the night? I mean, the thing I 
am getting to is to do that properly, you are going to need 
very involved software.
    Ms. Parkhill. Right.
    Mr. Foster. I think that one of the things that this 
committee can do is make it more affordable for small 
institutions to have access to that high quality software.
    Ms. Parkhill. Absolutely.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you. My time is up and yield back.
    Mr. Timmons [presiding]. Thank you. I now recognize myself 
for 5 minutes.
    I want to begin by thanking the witnesses for joining us 
today.
    I often emphasize the need to bring stability and 
consistency to the agencies under this committee's 
jurisdiction. Sharp swings in policy between administrations 
can create uncertainty, discourage investment, and make it 
harder for American firms to plan and grow. Providing clear 
direction oversight is one of Congress' most important 
responsibilities, especially in fast-moving sectors. Nowhere is 
that more important than in digital assets and emerging 
technologies.
    Rather than offering clear rules, the Biden Administration 
often relied on regulation by enforcement, leaving firms to 
navigate policy through enforcement actions instead of 
guidance, coupled with concerns about so-called Operation Choke 
Point 2.0. This approach has made it harder for fintech and 
blockchain innovators to operate in the U.S., risking that 
innovation and investment more overseas.
    I want to start with how your agencies are approaching 
innovation more broadly. Mr. Guynn, unlike some of the other 
regulators here today, the Federal Reserve has not established 
a formal Office of Innovation. Could you walk us through how 
the Division of Supervision and Regulation is working to foster 
an environment where banks can responsibly pursue financial 
innovation, including digital assets?
    Mr. Guynn. I think the way we do that is we let the banks 
drive that. So, in some ways, we wait for the banks to say, 
this is the direction we would like to go. We try to be 
responsive. For instance, if banks said, we have limits in our 
power, we would like to have more authority to be able to 
engage, for instance, as agent or principal with respect to 
digital assets, we would consider that and try to facilitate 
that consistent with safety and soundness.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that.
    Along those same lines, as these activities are integrated 
into the supervisory process, how have examinations evolved, 
and what steps has the Fed taken to ensure examiners have the 
expertise needed to evaluate these emerging risks without 
discouraging innovation?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes, we are enhancing our training of 
technology. We also are trying to change the cultural sort of 
view of this to be facilitating. The job of an examiner is not 
to sort of micromanage the bank but rather to let the bank 
choose its business model and its risk profile and then only 
raise yellow or red cards when there is a safety and soundness 
issue and not just artificially discourage innovation because 
of a fear of the new.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that.
    When I am back in my district, I regularly hear from small 
community banks and credit unions about the real-world 
challenges of integrating new and rapidly advancing 
technologies into their operations, particularly as they work 
to serve very small, often rural communities. These 
institutions are not only managing the cost and complexity of 
adopting new systems, but they are also on the frontlines of 
helping their customers understand and trust these tools. In 
many cases, that education and onboarding burden falls directly 
on them, which can slow adoption and create additional strain 
on already limited resources.
    Now, Ms. Parkhill, credit unions in particular face unique 
hurdles in this space. Could you speak to how the NCUA, 
especially through the Office of Financial Technology and 
Access, is working to support responsible innovation while also 
ensuring that examiners are properly equipped to oversee these 
developments?
    Ms. Parkhill. Sure. Part of that is through guidance we 
provide both to credit unions and to our examiners. While our 
examiners are well-experienced in identifying and assessing 
risk, as we are training examiners, as new technologies are 
being used by credit unions, we are incorporating that into the 
training. We are providing specific information on those 
technologies as they become used in the industry more and more.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. As you work with credit 
unions, can you give an example of how smaller institutions are 
thinking about partnerships with fintech firms and what 
barriers, either regulatory or operational, that they are 
encountering today?
    Ms. Parkhill. Yes. We are seeing a lot of interest in 
lending use cases, either underwriting or appraisals. The 
biggest challenge we hear are legacy systems that may not be 
compatible with fintechs or long-term inflexible contracts with 
core service providers that prevent working with certain 
vendors.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. Thank you to all our 
witnesses.
    Clear, consistent, and transparent supervision will be 
critical to ensuring that innovation happens here in the United 
States within the regulated system rather than being pushed 
overseas. I look forward to continuing this conversation.
    With that, I yield back.
    The gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. Garcia, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Garcia. I am sorry, did you say the gentleman?
    Mr. Timmons. Gentlewoman.
    Ms. Garcia. Oh, thank you. Just wanted to be clear.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all the witnesses for 
being here.
    There is no debating that, as an industry, the financial 
system should continue to innovate and leverage new technology. 
However, we need to always keep strong consumer protections in 
mind.
    I see that we have four regulators, and while I am happy to 
hear from you all, I want to take a moment to say how 
unfortunate it is that there is no witness here from the 
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, CFPB, with us today. The 
very agency that is tasked with protecting consumers has been 
defunded and forced to terminate its employees and contractors 
with more than $100 million in contracts canceled. They need to 
be a part of this conversation, and we need to reinvest in the 
CFPB immediately to protect consumers in this constantly 
changing environment. Whether it is seniors or young people or 
a small business owner, consumers must be protected.
    Rapid and constant technology innovation leading to new 
risks and threats are leaving regulators and Congress 
scrambling to write rules to better protect investors and 
consumers.
    Mr. Billingsley, what is the FDIC doing right now to ensure 
that the agency is using the most up-to-date technology for 
internal operations, especially for supervision and 
enforcement?
    Mr. Billingsley. Thank you. As I mentioned in my testimony, 
we are in the middle of a multiyear IT modernization project to 
convert legacy systems to more cloud-based systems to help us 
be more effective, be more efficient, ensure that our 
institutions are doing things in the safest way.
    Ms. Garcia. What have you accomplished so far? You are 
saying it is multiyear. What have you gotten done this year?
    Mr. Billingsley. What we are implementing is an agile 
system, so we have accomplished a lot of things with respect to 
how banks can apply to the FDIC. We have accomplished a lot of 
things with respect to audit filings, things of that nature but 
we are bolting on additional use cases by the month, so it is 
an ongoing project.
    Ms. Garcia. When you say multiyear, when will you complete 
this review?
    Mr. Billingsley. I believe we will have most of it 
completed in a couple of years. Some of it will linger past 
that, but a lot of the bulk will be completed.
    Ms. Garcia. Because things are moving rather rapidly, so I 
would urge you to expedite and fast-track what you can.
    Mr. Guynn, similarly, how is the Federal Reserve keeping up 
with new risks as technology continues to innovate? More 
specifically, what is the Fed doing to address model risks as 
banks expand their use of AI?
    Mr. Guynn. We are actually reviewing all of our guidance, 
including model risk management guidance, and are trying to 
make sure that it is updated. I think the last time we did 
model risk guidance it was about 15 or 18 years ago, so we are 
looking at it actively, and we are working with the other 
agencies so that we do it on a coordinated basis.
    Ms. Garcia. How are you coordinating that with all the 
system, with all the different Federal Reserve banks around the 
country?
    Mr. Guynn. You mean the Federal Reserve banks or--I am not 
sure I understand.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, you are the main player here, but you 
have got Federal Reserve systems. Like are you working together 
with the Dallas Reserve, with the Denver Reserve, with the New 
York Reserve?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes, absolutely. The guidance that we have will 
actually apply system-wide. When I say we are working with the 
other agencies, we are also working with the OCC and the FDIC 
so that it works across all the different banks and bank 
holding companies and other banking organizations.
    Ms. Garcia. Beyond AI, we also have seen a growing adoption 
of banking as a service and third-party providers. In February, 
the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas published a research paper 
titled ``Workshop Reviews Risks to the Economy, Financial 
Systems from Third Parties.'' In it, the authors argue that the 
involvement of outside providers who many follow differing 
standards and regulations can lead to unique risk management 
challenges.
    Ms. Parkhill, when it comes to third-party service 
providers, do the credit unions have a regulatory gap that 
prevents the agency from overseeing third-party vendors?
    Ms. Parkhill. We think we are best able to minimize risk to 
the industry and the shared insurance fund by focusing on our 
core function, which is examining credit unions.
    Ms. Garcia. So, you are not looking at reviewing what the 
third-party vendors are doing as it relates to your credit 
unions?
    Ms. Parkhill. We work through the credit unions to review 
the due diligence that they are doing on the providers that 
they are using.
    Ms. Garcia. You are not providing guidance or best 
practices?
    Ms. Parkhill. We do have third-party risk management best 
practices guidance, and we do have resources specific to the 
use of AI that link to authoritative sources from the National 
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and Cybersecurity 
and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) to make sure that 
they are going to the most current information and we do not 
have a middleman----
    Mr. Timmons. The gentlewoman's----
    Ms. Parkhill. We are not the middleman----
    Mr. Timmons [continuing]. time has expired.
    Ms. Parkhill [continuing]. updating guidance.
    Mr. Timmons. The gentlewoman's time has expired.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I ask for unanimous 
consent to introduce for the record the article I quoted, 
``Workshop Reviews Risks to the Economy, Financial Systems from 
Third Parties.''
    Mr. Timmons. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix 
on page 64.]

    Ms. Garcia. Thank you.
    Mr. Timmons. The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Davidson, who is 
the chair of the National Security Illicit Finance and 
International Financial Institutions Subcommittee, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Davidson. Thank you, Chairman.
    Witnesses, thank you for your preparation for this hearing 
and for your presence here today and frankly for the work you 
do to make sure the safety and soundness of our financial 
system stays strong and frankly gets stronger.
    Mr. Guynn, the Federal Reserve is now exploring so-called 
skinny master accounts to provide payment innovators more 
direct access to the Fed's infrastructure. That raises a 
question that has been broached for a while. You had guidance 
on when master accounts would be issued. Custodia Bank in 
particular complied with the ``shall issue'' definitions, but 
they were not issued a master account. Things have evolved 
since then. So how do we make sure that there is a clear 
``shall''? If you do this, then it shall happen versus somebody 
selectively picking winners and losers?
    Mr. Guynn. So, right now, the process for deciding whether 
to grant someone a master account is made by the Federal 
Reserve Bank, so it is discretionary. There are guidelines that 
are subject to system-wide, but there is a fair amount of 
discretion. As you know, the Kansas City Fed recently decided 
that they would grant a master account, although it looks a lot 
like a skinny master account, to Kraken, but have not yet 
granted it to Custodia.
    Mr. Davidson. Yes, so how do we make sure that is 
repeatable and reproducible and not just at the whims of 
whoever happens to be making the decision or whoever happens to 
be asking? I mean, even if you say somebody who does not yet 
comply with what the Federal Reserve would like to see, if I do 
X, Y, Z, then the answer is yes, how do we get to that so that 
you have an objective rule of law versus the friends and family 
network?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes, so we have not yet started, but we will be 
reviewing later this year the guidance for granting master 
accounts. It may well be that Congress may want to think about 
something, they want it to be more mandatory as opposed to 
discretionary, but for right now, it is mostly discretionary.
    Mr. Davidson. Well, thank you for that. One of the things 
that we think is not discretionary is whether the components of 
the executive branch comply with executive orders. Of course, 
those change from time to time but anything about digital 
assets--back home in Ohio, there is a select of people that are 
very passionate about that. For a lot of people, the number one 
thing they think about is central bank digital currency. 
President Trump issued an executive order saying that there 
should be no central bank digital currency, no work on a 
central bank digital currency. Prior to President Trump taking 
office this term, there was a lot of work at the Federal 
Reserve on developing a central bank digital currency. Has that 
work ceased, or is it ongoing?
    Mr. Guynn. Yes, I think Chair Powell has spoken to that, 
and he said that it is not ongoing and that the chair does not 
believe that we have the legal authority to issue central bank 
digital currency without some action by Congress.
    Mr. Davidson. Well, unfortunately, he always has this 
qualifier, a retail central bank digital currency. For a lot of 
people, what they see being built is like Hydra. There will be 
many heads, sometimes in the form of stablecoins, sometimes in 
the form of other payment instruments, but they will all come 
together on the back end with the body of the beast, and it 
will be a ``wholesale central bank digital currency (CBDC).'' 
So is the work on the wholesale CBDC ongoing, or did that, too, 
cease?
    Mr. Guynn. To my knowledge, it is not ongoing.
    Mr. Davidson. All right. Thank you. Mr. Gallagher one of 
the--well, maybe I will go to--Gallagher, Billingsley, you guys 
both oversee banks, and one of the things with bank fintech 
partnerships that we try to get right was the open banking 1033 
provision. CFTC has an active process to try to define a strike 
zone there and what is and is not the bank customer's property. 
You may have, of course, access to your own data, but that does 
not mean that you have access to the bank's payment rails. To 
what point is compensation there? How do you guys see that 
playing out? What is the role of existing bank regulators in 
helping provide clarity to that market?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. We are well aware of 
the privacy issues and challenges, the operational issues and 
challenges, and we will support the law as it is implemented 
and continue to go through that.
    Mr. Billingsley. Likewise, I do not think I have anything 
to add to what my colleague said.
    Mr. Davidson. So you guys are just waiting for CFTC to 
finish their final rulemaking, and then they will just apply 
it?
    Mr. Billingsley. I think it is CFPB. I am not----
    Mr. Davidson. Oh, CFPB, sorry, not CFTC. Consumer Financial 
Protection Bureau, my apologies. I knew what I meant.
    Mr. Billingsley. No, I am not super familiar with how the 
process is going, but we would certainly follow our 
responsibility, absolutely.
    Mr. Gallagher. Same, Congressman.
    Mr. Davidson. Yes, so the idea there is clarity around 
1033. I hope we get there.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Liccardo, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Guynn, I appreciate that the Fed has been evaluating 
whether and under what circumstances a skinny charter might 
enable a fintech to get access to the Federal rails for 
payments. I know Governor Waller and others have been quite 
public about their interest. As you can imagine, there is a lot 
of interest in Silicon Valley, which I represent in Congress, 
along with other parts of the region. We are hearing some 
concerns about initial drafts of the proposal, and particularly 
the exclusion of automated clearinghouse payments, ACH.
    As you can imagine my concern is that excluding the very 
payment modality that consumers and small businesses use most 
frequently would sort of defeat the purpose. Last year, 35 
billion ACH payments amounting to $93 trillion, 94 percent of 
W-2 employees are getting their paychecks via ACH, including 
me. Thank you. We know that FedNow is very promising, but many 
of the 1,400 banks that have access to FedNow in fact only 
provide receive-only capabilities. It is limited, obviously, 
and it is a fraction of what the transaction volume is 
currently through ACH.
    I am concerned that providing fintechs with payments access 
via skinny charter that excludes ACH is a little bit like 
having a global naval strategy that excludes the Pacific Ocean. 
I want to understand where the Fed might be about including ACH 
and whether there is some consideration for doing so.
    Mr. Guynn. I do not know for sure whether that is actually 
one of the questions in the Request for Information (RFI) that 
is outstanding now, but I think it is a legitimate question to 
raise, and I have heard it many times from other people at the 
Fed who are more involved in this, Governor Waller, who is 
directing it. I think there are some technological limitations 
with ACH compared to, say, Fedwire that might need to be 
addressed. I do not think there is any sort of desire to 
exclude otherwise eligible institutions from ACH. It is just a 
question of whether it would work subject to the conditions 
that are in the skinny master account proposal.
    Mr. Liccardo. I appreciate that. What we have seen, at 
least publicly in print, is that their concern is focused on 
the fact that ACH does not currently have an automated solution 
that can reject transactions that would cause daylight 
overdrafts. We certainly appreciate the importance of 
mitigating risk. That is a big role, obviously, for the Fed but 
many very established, respected financial companies in the 
technology space, ranging from Intuit to Visa, have both 
expressed objections to this exclusion as well as offered some, 
I think, very promising alternatives, for example, requiring 
pre-funding of ACH transactions.
    We heard that from Intuit and from Ripple, the idea of 
imposing daily or per-transaction limits on ACH activity or 
requiring collateralization or performance bonds or 
implementing enhanced monitoring or early warning systems. Visa 
suggested that the Fed consider allowing payment account 
holders to solely access the Fed ACH credit because that would 
naturally control and mitigate overdraft risk but would at 
least facilitate the objectives of payment.
    Do you believe the Fed will be open to, I think, these very 
promising ideas that the industry has offered for mitigating 
risk but enabling this critical access?
    Mr. Guynn. I have not read the pool of comment letters that 
have been submitted, but I am taking it from your comment that 
they have submitted these ideas in comment letters.
    Mr. Liccardo. Eagerly.
    Mr. Guynn. I know that my colleagues at the board--this is 
handled by a different division, but they will be looking at 
those comment letters. I think if there are ideas that will 
actually solve the problem, I am sure they will be open to 
considering it.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you. I look forward to working with 
your team to make that happen.
    Mr. Timmons. The gentleman from Montana, Mr. Downing, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all to 
the witnesses for being here.
    One of the primary reasons that I wanted to serve on this 
committee was to help champion the need for the United States 
to lead in innovation. This hearing today is a great 
opportunity to hear directly from regulators on how the 
administration is going about fostering innovation.
    My questions--I am going to be going down the line, so if 
you could please respond briefly, it would be very helpful so 
we can get through some of these. I am going to start with the 
first one on whether you believe that your agency has the 
necessary expertise in its staffing to adapt to rapidly 
evolving technologies. If not, what is your agency doing to 
address that?
    I will start with Mr. Guynn.
    Mr. Guynn. I think we have the resources and personnel now 
that we need, but we are always reviewing that and we will 
implement--we have been thinking about what else do we need to 
know as these things evolve and make sure that we stay fresh 
and that we increase the knowledge that we have, that our 
workforce has.
    Mr. Downing. Mr. Gallagher.
    Mr. Gallagher. Yes, I believe we have the expertise, and we 
will complement that with additional expertise or training as 
warranted and as we have done throughout our history.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Mr. Billingsley.
    Mr. Billingsley. I do think we have the resources we need. 
I do think it is important that we continue to grow and learn 
in this area. It is going to be very important that we continue 
to do that.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Ms. Parkhill.
    Ms. Parkhill. We do have the expertise. We have been 
training examiners on innovations for decades. It is just 
moving at a faster pace now, but we have processes in place to 
incorporate it into our development.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. Something that we explored when I 
was the commissioner--I was the commissioner of securities and 
insurance for the State of Montana, but one of the things that 
we explored were regulatory sandboxes and had some success 
there trying to find a way to try innovative projects that did 
not quite fit within the regulatory framework and give them 
some runway to figure that out. I would just love to hear your 
thoughts on whether regulatory sandboxes allow time for 
incremental adaptation necessary to enabling long-term 
frameworks for innovation.
    On that one, I will start with Mr. Gallagher.
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. Like any other 
legally permissible banking activity, activities that promote 
innovation have a place in the Federal banking system if 
conducted in a safe and sound manner. We are committed to 
supporting responsible innovation and long-term successes 
within the banking system, working collaboratively with the 
banks, fintech firms, and other stakeholders to understand 
their goal and identify a path forward----
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Mr. Gallagher [continuing]. regardless of whether that is a 
sandbox.
    Mr. Downing. Appreciate it.
    Mr. Billingsley.
    Mr. Billingsley. I certainly agree with the spirit of your 
question. We see our institutions very frequently and very 
successfully pilot or test new technology before they roll it 
out more broadly, and that does work quite well.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Ms. Parkhill.
    Ms. Parkhill. We have definitely seen successful programs. 
As with any program, success depends on the details and 
implementation, but that is a tool that we have heard from the 
industry that there is interest in.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Finally, Mr. Guynn.
    Mr. Guynn. I think the most important thing you can do in 
legislation of that sort is to make it clear that things that 
are a bit uncertain in terms of powers can be done on a limited 
basis, like engaging with digital assets, developing AI, 
developing general-purpose technology that could be used for 
delivering financial services.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. Another way Congress has bolstered 
the United States' standing as a leader in innovation is by 
passing comprehensive payment stablecoin legislation, the 
GENIUS Act, which was signed into law July of last year. Going 
down the line, I would love to hear where your agency stands on 
the implementation of the GENIUS Act. We will start with Mr. 
Billingsley.
    Mr. Billingsley. Thank you. We published a notice of 
proposed rulemaking on part of our responsibilities under 
GENIUS last year. We have another one forthcoming very soon, 
and we are working very hard to meet the deadline.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Ms. Parkhill.
    Ms. Parkhill. We are in the same. We have an application 
aspect of the rulemaking that is up for comment now. Comments 
close April 13, and we are working toward the issuer standards 
piece of it.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Mr. Guynn.
    Mr. Guynn. We are still working out. We are working close. 
We think we will have something out very soon, and we think it 
will be very good.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Finally, Mr. Gallagher.
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. Our rule was 
published for comment, and we are eagerly awaiting the 
feedback, and we will take that into consideration as we work 
to finalize the rules consistent with Congress' intention.
    Mr. Downing. Outstanding. Well, I appreciate all of your 
participation here. Obviously I have been very vocal on the 
need for innovation to be happening here in the United States 
and the tools that we have to continue innovating, and the work 
that you are doing in your agencies is much appreciated.
    On that, Mr. Chair, I yield.
    Mr. Nunn [presiding]. The gentleman yields.
    The gentlewoman from Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I am going to date myself a little bit here. When I was 
growing up, may she rest in peace, my mother used to sing a 
song that went like this, ``Ain't nothing going on but the 
rent.'' Bills do not stop. People work hard on their jobs, they 
earn a paycheck, and they deserve to be able to access it 
quickly.
    We know that workers are struggling to make ends meet, 
especially now, and especially until a payday, those checks 
hit. Consequently, many end up using fintech apps like Klarna 
or Affirm to pay for their gas, their groceries, and utility 
bills. It is no doubt that everyday workers and families want 
services that work for them, technology that helps them get 
paid faster instead of waiting until payday. Businesses want it 
too. It is how you can retain your workforce.
    There is an affordability crisis, and there is also a 
payroll timing issue that can actually be fixed right now and 
that is exactly why the FedNow payment service is so important. 
FedNow is an instant payment service offered by the Federal 
Reserve, and I have really enjoyed working closely with 
Chairman Hill and Senator Van Hollen in the Senate to get that 
service created years ago. FedNow can help households get their 
money in real time. FedNow can also help small community banks 
that have fewer resources and technological infrastructure 
compete with these fintech platforms to offer households their 
money when they need it while still complying with regulations.
    Ms. Parkhill, how does something like FedNow help smaller 
community banks and credit unions compete while still serving 
their customers safely?
    Ms. Parkhill. It allows them to offer more products and 
services to their members that meet the needs of exactly what 
you had mentioned, the payments and moving money quickly.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay, and making customers aware of the fraud 
risk compliance services that FedNow provides, that is one way 
that we can be helpful but what else can Congress and 
regulators be doing to support small community banks and credit 
unions as they access the benefits from FedNow?
    Ms. Parkhill. I think providing opportunities for them to--
I guess resources so that they know what tools are available 
and really listening to their members to be able to provide the 
services that they are asking for.
    Ms. Pressley. All right. Thank you.
    Mr. Guynn, as a director at the Federal Reserve and someone 
who does have experience in the private sector before coming to 
the Fed, what steps is the Federal Reserve taking to increase 
the number of financial institutions that are signing up for 
the FedNow service?
    Mr. Guynn. I think there is a process to sign up for it 
that I do not think that is the roadblock at all. I am not sure 
there is anything to improve it other than to continue inviting 
institutions to sign up for it.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay. Well, I think the bottom line is that 
we need to be able to meet the urgent needs of families while 
also supporting our smaller community banks and credit unions, 
customers that deserve and need those financial systems that 
work for them. We should be leveraging the tools that are 
available to us like FedNow to responsibly leverage technology, 
meet customers where they are, and again, it can help these 
smaller banks and credit unions comply with regulations and 
still compete with those new financial platforms in order to 
retain their customers.
    So I look forward to continuing to work together with you, 
my colleagues across the aisle, to do this essential work and 
to make sure folks are aware of this tool that is available and 
leverage it accordingly.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Nunn. The gentlelady yields back.
    The chair will now recognize himself for 5 minutes.
    I want to thank the panel for being here and the ranking 
member for your leadership on this.
    Look, artificial intelligence is already driving real 
benefits by expanding our financial sector, lowering costs, and 
helping institutions serve our customers better. We all agree 
this is a good thing. As adoption accelerates, so do the risks, 
including fraud, misinformation, and adversaries using these 
very tools against us. We have seen clearly a direction from 
Congress that is working.
    The administration's artificial intelligence framework 
points in the same direction, and this is why I have introduced 
the Artificial Intelligence Practices, Logistics, Actions, and 
Necessities (AI PLAN) Act. It takes a balanced approach to 
directing key agencies to build on coordinated national 
strategies against malicious AI use and not creating 
duplicative government regulations or, worse, guidance that 
conflicts with each other. We all have to make sure that we are 
keeping America first in this technology space and not creating 
artificial government-enforced barriers.
    Right now, I believe that agencies are not fully aligned, 
and that creates gaps. We need to stay ahead of the threat 
while keeping innovation right here in the United States.
    To all witnesses, I will start with a simple yes or no 
question for each of you. My AI plan would establish a whole-
of-government strategy on AI threats to our financial systems. 
I would like you to let me know, do you think this is something 
the U.S. Government is capable of doing? Mr. Guynn?
    Mr. Guynn. I think it clearly is capable, and it seems like 
your act, your bill, is focused on defending against economic 
and national security risks, and it is hard to say that would 
not be helpful.
    Mr. Nunn. Mr. Gallagher.
    Mr. Gallagher. Yes, I do think we are capable.
    Mr. Nunn. Thank you.
    Mr. Billingsley.
    Mr. Billingsley. I agree, I think we are capable.
    Ms. Parkhill. I agree----
    Mr. Nunn. Ms. Parkhill.
    Mr. Gallagher [continuing]. yes.
    Mr. Nunn. Very good. Mr. Gallagher, I would like to speak 
to you directly here. Look, my home State of Iowa alone has 
more than 270 community banks. What is one concrete tool that 
the OCC is deploying today to help banks under that $500 
million threshold detect AI-generated fraud, the banks that 
would be the most vulnerable in this case?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. As far as what we 
are doing is we are seeking feedback from the industry on what 
the greatest challenges are to help provide information and 
guidance on how to combat it, and we will continue to support 
through reduction of regulation that is not statutorily 
required--not regulations, policies that are not statutorily 
required to enable them the room to explore and test.
    Mr. Nunn. I know that our banks appreciate that and your 
leadership in this space.
    I am going to get a little bit more technical here with 
you. The AI model risk guidance has not been updated for nearly 
a decade, specifically SR 11-7, and that circular was written 
years before most large language models existed, including what 
we have seen just in the last 12 months alone. Is the OCC 
actively updating AI-specific model risk guidance and would 
direction from Congress help you in your effort?
    Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Congressman. So yes, SR is the 
Feds. We have a corresponding version as well, and we are 
reviewing that in coordination with the Federal Reserve and the 
FDIC. I do not know if additional direction is necessary. We 
are well aware of the risks and concerns from the industry.
    Mr. Nunn. With a great panel up here, I think this is all 
the more reason for Congress to make sure that we are doing our 
job of providing congressional intent here, making sure that 
not only are you working together but that we are not 
inadvertently creating gaps or, again, conflicting guidance to 
places like my hometown banks. I hope the AI plan can help you 
start with that, and I appreciate your feedback on this.
    Mr. Billingsley, I would like to approach you next here. We 
have seen risks from foreign AI models. Think of China's 
DeepSeek on this. If a bank deployed a compromised model today, 
would we be able to detect it? If so, how long would something 
like that take if it was compromised?
    Mr. Billingsley. As a general matter, we approach all bank 
activities sort of the same. We would hope to detect that in 
real time. Sometimes it takes a little time. We do conduct 
exams very frequently. We do offsite monitoring and such. 
Sometimes it can take a little bit of time.
    Mr. Nunn. What do you think the most important step is that 
Congress could take in the short term to help you with your 
timeline for real-time detection of foreign adversary advanced 
AI large-language model learning?
    Mr. Billingsley. It is a fantastic question. The first 
thing that comes to mind, and I think you alluded to this in 
your opening remarks, is the more whole-of-government approach. 
The more we can coordinate, I think, the better, and share 
information. I think that would be useful.
    Mr. Nunn. I would agree. I think this is an opportunity for 
us all to be able to work hand-in-glove on this, as well as 
with our private sector partners as we move forward.
    Very quickly, Mr. Guynn, would clear direction from 
Congress, such as an AI PLAN Act, help close some of the gaps 
that we have highlighted here today?
    Mr. Guynn. I think what it would do is it would just 
further encourage interagency coordination to identify the 
problems and solve them.
    Mr. Nunn. I think we have seen risks from foreign AI models 
like DeepSeek already start to have an impact, and if a bank 
deployed its ability to protect itself, we would be moving 
forward.
    With that, I thank the panel for their time today. I would 
like to also highlight that we appreciate all of your witness' 
testimony.
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the 
chair. The questions will be forwarded to the witnesses for 
their response. Witnesses will please respond no later than 
April 30, 2026.

    The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]

    With that, Mr. Lynch, this hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 11:42 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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