[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                     EVALUATING FIRSTNET: PERFORMANCE,
                   ACCOUNTABILITY, AND REAUTHORIZATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

             SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________


                            FEBRUARY 4, 2026

                               __________


                           Serial No. 119-59





                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





     Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce

                   govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
                        energycommerce.house.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

63-895 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026










                    COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE

                        BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
                                 Chairman

ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia           Ranking Member
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina       JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    DORIS O. MATSUI, California
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama              KATHY CASTOR, Florida
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida, Vice          PAUL TONKO, New York
    Chairman                         YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York
DAN CRENSHAW, Texas                  RAUL RUIZ, California
JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania             SCOTT H. PETERS, California
RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas           DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
TROY BALDERSON, Ohio                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California
AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                DARREN SOTO, Florida
DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee         KIM SCHRIER, Washington
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, New York
JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, Massachusetts
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana
ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          KEVIN MULLIN, California
LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
NICHOLAS A. LANGWORTHY, New York     JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia
THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey
MICHAEL A. RULLI, Ohio
GABE EVANS, Colorado
CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas
JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota

                                 ------                                

                           Professional Staff

                     MEGAN JACKSON, Staff Director
                SOPHIE KHANAHMADI, Deputy Staff Director
               TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Minority Staff Director









             Subcommittee on Communications and Technology

                     RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina
                                 Chairman

RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia, Vice         DORIS O. MATSUI, California
    Chairman                           Ranking Member
ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio                DARREN SOTO, Florida
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida            RAUL RUIZ, California
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia    SCOTT H. PETERS, California
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida                DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan
RUSS FULCHER, Idaho                  ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas                NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California
KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 TROY A. CARTER, Louisiana
JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey
ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana                GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JENNIFER L. McCLELLAN, Virginia
THOMAS H. KEAN, Jr., New Jersey      KATHY CASTOR, Florida
CRAIG A. GOLDMAN, Texas              FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex 
JULIE FEDORCHAK, North Dakota            officio)
BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky (ex 
    officio)








                             C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hon. Richard Hudson, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of North Carolina, opening statement...........................     2
    Prepared statement...........................................     4
Hon. Doris O. Matsui, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of California, opening statement...............................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    11
Hon. Brett Guthrie, a Representative in Congress from the 
  Commonwealth of Kentucky, opening statement....................    13
    Prepared statement...........................................    14
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of New Jersey, opening statement.........................    17
    Prepared statement...........................................    19
Hon. Jennifer L. McClellan, a Representative in Congress from the 
  Commonwealth of Virginia, opening statement....................    22

                               Witnesses

Michael A. Adkinson, Jr., Acting Board Chair, First Responder 
  Network Authority, and Sheriff, Walton County, Florida.........    23
    Prepared statement...........................................    26
    Answers to submitted questions...............................   140
Michael E. Dame, Associate Administrator for Public Safety 
  Communications, National Telecommunications and Information 
  Administration.................................................    32
    Prepared statement...........................................    34
Scott Agnew, President, FirstNet and Public Sector Mobility, 
  AT&T, Inc......................................................    38
    Prepared statement...........................................    40

                              Legislation

H.R. ___, the First Responder Network Authority Reauthorization 
  Act of 2026....................................................   100

                           Submitted Material

Inclusion of the following was approved by unanimous consent.
List of documents submitted for the record.......................   114
Letter of January 21, 2026, from Jeff Norman, President, Major 
  Cities Chiefs Association, and Sheriff Chris West, President, 
  National Sheriffs' Association. to Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Pallone.   115
Letter of January 28, 2026, from Anthony J. Constantini, Policy 
  Analyst, Bull Moose Project, to Mr. Hudson.....................   117
Statement of Thomas A. Schatz, President, Council for Citizens 
  Against Government Waste, February 4, 2026.....................   119
Letter of February 2, 2026, from Andrew Knapp, Director, Hamilton 
  County Emergency Communications, to Subcommittee on 
  Communications And Technology..................................   121
Letter of January 21, 2026, from Christine E. Hamp, President, 
  National Grange................................................   122
Letter of February 2, 2026, from Fire Chief Steven Locke, First 
  Vice President, International Association of Fire Chiefs, to 
  Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Pallone....................................   125
Letter of February 3, 2026, from Patrick Yoes, National 
  President, National Fraternal Order of Police, to Mr. Guthrie 
  and Mr. Pallone................................................   126
Letter of January 16, 2026, from Frank J. Walters, President, New 
  Jersey State Fire Chiefs Association, to Mr. Guthrie and Mr. 
  Hudson.........................................................   129
Statement of APCO International, et al., ``Recommendations for 
  Preserving the Federal FirstNet Network''......................   131
Letter of February 3, 2026, from David Williams, President, 
  Taxpayers Protection Alliance, to Mr. Hudson and Ms. Matsui....   135
Letter of February 3, 2026, from John Paul Jones, Executive 
  Director,, Public Safety Broadband Technology Association, to 
  Mr. Guthrie and Mr. Hudson.....................................   137
Statement by Lee H. Davidson, Chief Deputy, Ripley County 
  Sheriff's Office...............................................   139









 
                     EVALUATING FIRSTNET: PERFORMANCE,
                   ACCOUNTABILITY, AND REAUTHORIZATION

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2026

                  House of Representatives,
     Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,
                          Committee on Energy and Commerce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:16 a.m., in 
the John D. Dingell Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building, 
Hon. Richard Hudson (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Members present: Hudson, Allen, Latta, Griffith, Bilirakis, 
Carter of Georgia, Dunn, Pfluger, Cammack, Obernolte, Houchin, 
Fry, Kean, Goldman, Fedorchak, Guthrie (ex officio), Matsui 
(subcommittee ranking member), Soto, Clarke, Ruiz, Peters, 
Dingell, Barragan, Carter of Louisiana, Menendez, Landsman, 
McClellan, Castor, and Pallone (ex officio).
    Also present: Representative Joyce.
    Staff present: Jessica Donlon, General Counsel; Michael 
Essington, Chief Counsel, Communications and Technology; Sydney 
Greene, Director of Finance andLogistics; Megan Jackson, Staff 
Director; Noah Jackson, Clerk, Communications and Technology; 
Sophie Khanahmadi, Deputy Staff Director; John Lin, Senior 
Counsel, Communications and Technology; Sarah Meier, Counsel 
and Parliamentarian; Elaina Murphy, Professional Staff Member, 
Communications and Technology; Brice Ogle, Special Assistant; 
Seth Ricketts, Clerk, Energy and Environment; Dylan Rogers, 
Professional Staff Member, Communications and Technology; Chris 
Sarley, Member Services/Stakeholder Director; Matt VanHyfte, 
Communications Director; Jane Vickers, Press Assistant; Hannah 
Anton, Minority Policy Analyst; Keegan Cardman, Minority Staff 
Assistant; Parul Desai, Minority Chief Counsel, Communications 
and Technology; Ava Digre, Minority Intern; Waverly Gordon, 
Minority Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel; Tiffany 
Guarascio, Minority Staff Director; Jackson Hall, Minority 
Intern; Dan Miller, Minority Professional Staff Member; Andrew 
Souvall, Minority Director of Communications, Outreach, and 
Member Services; Johanna Thomas, Minority Counsel; and Hannah 
Treger, Minority Staff Assistant.
    Mr. Hudson. The subcommittee will come to order.
    The Chair recognizes himself for an opening statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD HUDSON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
           CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

    Good morning. Welcome to today's legislative hearing on the 
First Responder Network Authority, or FirstNet.
    FirstNet's authorization expires at the beginning of next 
year, and it is this committee's duty to reauthorize the 
program before it expires. In the process, we should examine 
FirstNet's activity since its creation 15 years ago and make 
any changes necessary to improve its performance.
    The future of public safety relies on safe resources like 
FirstNet, so thank you all for joining us to ensure that our 
country is taken care of in times of need.
    During the horrific terrorist attacks on September 11, 
2001, first responders from different agencies found they could 
not communicate with each other because they used different 
radio systems and overloaded networks prevented communications 
from going through.
    In the aftermath of these attacks, Congress stood up the 9/
11 Commission, which made recommendations to prepare for and 
guard against future attacks. One of those recommendations led 
to Congress establishing FirstNet, a nationwide broadband 
network specifically built for public safety.
    FirstNet was allocated 20 megahertz of spectrum and $7 
billion to build out the network in all 50 States and the 
Territories. In 2017, AT&T was selected to deploy the network. 
Shortly after, FirstNet began providing priority and 
preemption. During a crisis, when there is increased network 
traffic, non-FirstNet AT&T subscribers will be removed from the 
priority list to ensure first responders can always make the 
call. On December 20, 2023, the FirstNet Authority verified the 
initial nationwide build-out of the network.
    However, the successful build-out of this network does not 
mean it has not faced challenges. Since 2014, the Department of 
Commerce Office of Inspector General has issued 21 reports 
regarding significant concerns about FirstNet and the 
deployment of the nationwide public safety broadband network, 
its operational response, and other administrative matters.
    Several of these reports highlight contract oversight 
shortcomings, resulting in modified build-out objectives that 
jeopardize first responders' ability to do their job. Other 
reports indicate a failure of the network to adequately respond 
to a natural disaster, and that a senior official at FirstNet 
interfered with the OIG's investigation and even retaliated 
against whistleblowers who cooperated with the OIG.
    This committee's work over the last several months has also 
identified a consistent and troubling finding: The ambiguous 
language regarding FirstNet's independence while simultaneously 
placing it directly within an executive branch agency has 
created confusion and strife for all parties involved when 
trying to manage this program. To ensure the long-term success 
of FirstNet, it is imperative there is clear and consistent 
leadership. This leadership must be able to work hand in hand 
with the FirstNet Board, not against it.
    I would like to emphasize that this draft legislation does 
not in any way remove the statutory requirement to have a board 
or their responsibilities to the First Responder Network 
Authority. The board is an incredibly valuable component of 
FirstNet and crucial for ensuring the experience and needs of 
first responders as well as the general public, not government 
bureaucrats, are reflected in the direction of the network.
    Additionally, we must ensure this network can evolve along 
with the technological landscape. Networks of 15 years ago are 
different than those of today and could be even more different 
15 years from now. For the benefit of first responders, 
FirstNet should have the statutory flexibility to incorporate 
new network technologies to provide the most advanced service 
that public safety requires.
    I want to be clear, FirstNet has succeeded despite the 
challenges it has faced, and I would like to commend AT&T for 
building a nationwide safety communications network, making it 
a success and continuing to build it out and improve for the 
safety of others, and for being the only one to take it on in 
the first place.
    Congress is here to evaluate this program to ensure its 
long-term success for our first responders. Today is the first 
step in the reauthorization of this program.
    With FirstNet's statutory authority set to expire in 2027, 
it is time for Congress to assess FirstNet's progress and 
ensure that we provide a governing structure that sets up 
FirstNet to succeed into the future.
    Today, we will hear from our witnesses who are directly 
involved with FirstNet about the current state of the network 
and how the legislation before us will strengthen the First 
Responder Network Authority.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hudson follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. I now recognize the ranking member, the 
gentlelady from California, for her opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DORIS O. MATSUI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Keeping the public safe is one of our most fundamental 
responsibilities as lawmakers. In moments of crisis, people 
expect help to arrive quickly, but our public safety 
professionals can't do their jobs if they don't receive the 
call for help or if the lines of communication fail. That is 
why Congress created the FirstNet Authority, a nationwide 
broadband network specifically for first responders.
    Disasters don't wait for perfect conditions. Wildfires, 
floods, severe storms, and large-scale emergencies can 
overwhelm local systems in seconds. In those moments, our first 
responders need priority service, strong coverage, and a 
network that holds up under pressure.
    Back home in California, we are hearing that FirstNet is 
making a difference on the ground. Cal OES, our State emergency 
management office, has highlighted the tremendous value they 
have seen from FirstNet, but they also emphasize the job is not 
finished.
    Even with the progress so far, too many communities in 
rural California still can't count on reliable coverage. That 
matters because one of the core goals of FirstNet was to extend 
reliable service to the places the market too often leaves 
behind.
    As we consider reauthorization, we should be asking how we 
strengthen incentives and accountability so that build-out 
reaches the hard places, not just the easy ones. At the same 
time, it is important to recognize what this program has 
accomplished.
    FirstNet is a strong example of what can happen when 
Congress identifies a real need and builds a durable framework 
to meet it. At first, some questioned whether a nationwide 
public safety network was feasible. Some questioned whether it 
was good business. But Congress took on that challenge because 
public safety is too important for us just to stand by.
    Since then, FirstNet has spurred modern public safety 
connectivity. It showed that serving first responders can be 
both a public good and a sustainable business model.
    Our job today is to take the lessons of nearly 15 years and 
make FirstNet even better. That starts with fixing its 
shortcomings, especially in transparency and accountability. 
Congress and the public need clear visibility into FirstNet's 
performance, spending, and whether commitments are being met.
    We also have a responsibility to help the system evolve. 
Public safety needs are not one size fits all. Some public 
safety agencies in my district rely on FirstNet, some use other 
providers, and some use a mix because they can't afford a 
single point of failure. But no matter what network a responder 
is on, they should be able to connect instantly with partners 
on the ground, even when conditions are at their worst. We 
should look for ways to enable innovation, spur competition, 
and meet local needs while maintaining interoperability and 
reliability nationwide.
    At the end of the day, this reauthorization is about 
listening to our first responders and making sure they have the 
tools they need and do their job safely and effectively. If we 
get this right, we can build on what is already working, fix 
what isn't, and ensure FirstNet keeps delivering for 
communities big and small, urban and rural for decades to come.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how this 
draft bill balances these priorities and what changes are 
needed.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Matsui follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, the 
gentleman from Kentucky, for 5 minutes for his opening 
statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRETT GUTHRIE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
           CONGRESS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY

    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman Hudson. Thanks 
for bringing us all together on this important work, and thanks 
for the Ranking Member Matsui for working on this as well. I 
look forward to hearing more about FirstNet Responder Network 
Authority and the impact the legislation before us will have.
    It has been almost 15 years since Congress created the 
First Responder Network Authority. Born in the wake of the 9/11 
terrorist attacks, this network is critical for first 
responders to have a communications network that works and when 
they need it most.
    It is important that this committee evaluates the progress 
FirstNet has made since its inception and make necessary 
changes to improve it. The committee's oversight work on this 
issue has indicated ongoing challenges with the FirstNet 
structure, and the Department of Commerce Office of Inspector 
General has indicated problems with transparency and 
accountability.
    The legislation before us today makes those reforms to 
improve transparency, accountability, and leadership but also 
to ensure longevity and continued development and success of 
this network as technology evolves. This bill keeps important 
aspects of FirstNet, such as the board, which provides valuable 
expertise of this network to ensure continued success of the 
program.
    Last year, I had the opportunity to meet with the Fern 
Creek fire chief and other local first responders in my 
district to talk about FirstNet operations and disaster 
preparedness. We talked about reliable access to communications 
for our first responders in our communities, especially during 
emergencies like the devastating tornados and floods that 
struck the Commonwealth in recent years.
    The creation of the First Responder Network Authority led 
the way in innovation for a dedicated communication service for 
first responders where today there are now competing services 
for first responder communications. This healthy competition 
will drive further market innovation to provide the best 
services dedicated to public safety.
    However, we must ensure the different users of these 
services can communicate and are interoperable with each other. 
Regardless of which service provider our first responders use, 
it is critical that their communication tools work reliably in 
the moments of the greatest need.
    Thank you again for having this, Chairman Hudson. Thanks 
for all our witnesses for being here. We look forward to 
hearing from you. Your participation is important.
    And I will yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Guthrie follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, the ranking 
member, for 5 minutes for his opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE 
            IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY

    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Hudson.
    The subcommittee has worked hard in recent months to 
advance bipartisan efforts to improve public safety 
communications, and I am glad to see that we are continuing 
today as we discuss legislation to reauthorize the First 
Responder Network Authority.
    Since its creation following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, 
FirstNet has delivered unprecedented connectivity to law 
enforcement, fire services, emergency medical services, and 
many other public safety personnel who serve our communities 
every day. And prior to those attacks, the market for priority 
and preemptive services for first responders did not really 
exist.
    The Government Emergency Telecommunication Service, or 
GETS, has been around for some time, and more recently the 
nationwide Wireless Priority Service, or WPS. Yet nothing comes 
close to the mobile capabilities and exclusivity that are 
available to first responders today and offered by three 
different nationwide providers who compete fiercely for public 
safety's business.
    Now, some of my colleagues might not want to believe it, 
but government intervention and investment by Congress in 2012 
actually opened the door to more competition while raising the 
bar for public safety communication services. And as we look to 
reauthorize First Responder Network Authority, it is important 
that we recognize that many of the conditions that existed when 
it was created in 2012 have changed significantly in 14 years.
    We also have the benefit of examination and analysis from 
the Commerce Department's Office of Inspector General and the 
Government Accountability Office. They both identified issues 
that have led FirstNet to fall short of its mission at times to 
serve first responders, and some of those problems are 
structural while others have been addressed on an ongoing basis 
by the FirstNet Authority as they have arisen.
    In any case, the text in the discussion draft before us 
today represents a good-faith effort to address concerns that 
have been raised with the committee over the years.
    It is also clear that the FirstNet service remains 
overwhelmingly popular with the vast majority of public safety 
organizations. Ultimately, the user experience and 
functionality from the perspective of first responders and 
public safety subscribers is the most important metric for us 
to consider, and I am committed to ensuring that we do no harm 
to this service in the course of this effort.
    I am aware of the passion and interest this issue has 
across a broad range of stakeholders. I have appreciated 
hearing the perspectives of our friends in public safety, 
representatives of Federal, State, and local governments, and 
wireless industry stakeholders who offer these services, and I 
look forward to continuing those conversations this year as we 
work through the regular order process to achieve consensus 
that can pass both the House and Senate and be signed into law 
by the year's end.
    So let me thank Representatives McClellan and Dunn for 
their leadership in this effort that is absolutely critical to 
keeping first responders connected when it matters most.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    Mr. Pallone. And I yield back the remainder--well, 
actually, I want to yield the remainder of my time to 
Representative McClellan.
    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Ranking Member Pallone and 
Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member Matsui, for holding this 
critically important hearing.
    This past week, most of the country was inundated by Winter 
Storm Fern, which canceled nearly 2,000 flights, left hundreds 
of thousands without power, and resulted in more than 50 
deaths, three of them in Virginia.
    I would like to thank the witnesses and our first 
responders for their work and continued investments in FirstNet 
that have been made throughout the Nation, the Commonwealth, 
and the Fourth District.
    Born out of the tragic events of September 11, FirstNet is 
essential to ensuring our public safety community has the 
reliable, interoperable tools and resources necessary to 
respond to our most severe emergencies. This is critically 
important as we see more and more severe natural disasters like 
Winter Storm Fern and the mega hurricanes that we have seen.
    However, as FirstNet approaches the end of its current 
authorization, it is clear that the program is operating 
without sufficient, up-to-date oversight and accountability 
measures in place. Reauthorization is not simply about 
extending the program, it is about strengthening governance, 
reinforcing transparency, and ensuring that Congress retains 
appropriate visibility into how the nationwide public safety 
broadband network operates.
    I am glad to work with my colleague from Florida, Mr. Dunn, 
on this legislation, and I look forward to continuing our 
bipartisan efforts to strengthen FirstNet so it can continue to 
serve first responders and the communities that depend on them.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. McClellan follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    
    Mr. Pallone. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Hudson. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
yields back. Thank you.
    We have now concluded with Member opening statements. The 
Chair reminds Members that, pursuant to the committee rules, 
all Members' opening statements will be made part of the 
record.
    I would like to thank our witnesses for being here today to 
testify before this subcommittee. Our witnesses will have 5 
minutes to provide an opening statement, which will be followed 
by a round of questions from the Members.
    The witnesses here before us today are Sheriff Michael 
Adkinson, acting board chair of the First Responder Network 
Authority and sheriff of Walton County, Florida; Michael Dame, 
Associate Administrator, Office of Public Safety Communications 
at NTIA; and Scott Agnew, president of FirstNet and Public 
Safety Mobility at AT&T.
    Thank you all for being here.
    Sheriff Adkinson, you are recognized for 5 minutes for an 
opening statement.

  STATEMENTS OF MICHAEL A. ADKINSON, Jr., ACTING BOARD CHAIR, 
FIRST RESPONDER NETWORK AUTHORITY, AND SHERIFF, WALTON COUNTY, 
 FLORIDA; MICHAEL E. DAME, ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR FOR PUBLIC 
    SAFETY COMMUNICATIONS, NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND 
    INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION; AND SCOTT AGNEW, PRESIDENT, 
        FIRSTNET AND PUBLIC SAFETY MOBILITY, AT&T, INC.

         STATEMENT OF SHERIFF MICHAEL A. ADKINSON, Jr.

    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you, Chair Hudson, Chair Guthrie, 
Ranking Member Matsui, Ranking Member Pallone.
    As previously stated, my name is Mike Adkinson. I am the 
acting board chair of the FirstNet Authority. By way of my day 
job, I am a sheriff in Walton County, Florida. Uniquely, I 
represent professional fire rescue emergency services and air 
medical as well as 9-1-1 communication center.
    Twenty-five years ago--you have heard it--this Nation faced 
challenges. I remember getting up that morning, putting on a 
police officer uniform for the Tallahassee Police Department, 
and saying, ``What is going on? What is happening?''
    The reality of it is that this Congress, along with public 
safety's input, made a decision that I think fundamentally 
improved the well-being of the citizens of the United States 
and the first responders they serve, which is you built a 
purpose-built network to ensure that first responders could 
communicate during times of emergency. I will tell you that I 
think it is a generational infrastructure success.
    I have been on the board about a year and a half along with 
six new board members, and we have marveled at what has been 
accomplished. And I will tell you that I am proud of the work 
that the Congress has done and the First Responder Network has 
done.
    But my job is to be honest and to be a good steward of the 
public's trust and the responsibility that you have given us. I 
am well aware of the inspector general reports. We became aware 
of them right after we came into office, the new board members. 
It was our first thought and responsibility is to lean into 
this. You are not going to hear me make excuses for that. I am 
not in the business of excuses.
    As I told the executive director, and as the board said to 
the executive director and staff members, we are in the 
business of getting things done. And so what that means is 
there will be accountability. There will be transparency. You 
will work with the Office of the Inspector General, and we will 
resolve these issues. Period, full stop. Then, whoever should 
be held accountable should be held accountable.
    That is the reality of where we are at, and I am not going 
to belabor that point because I think it speaks for itself.
    I think that there is an opportunity now to do some things 
that make a difference. If FirstNet has been successful, I 
believe it will continue to be successful. There are some 
things I think we can do to make it better. Let me give you an 
example.
    As I briefly mentioned, six of us came on board at one 
time. That is an incredibly difficult way to maintain 
continuity of government when you have six new people who have 
no previous history on that board itself. We would ask that you 
consider staggering these terms to 3 years.
    By the way, that was in the original legislation. It just 
did not contemplate reoccurring, that you grant the Secretary 
of the Department of Commerce the ability to continue to 
stagger these terms. That is just good governance.
    We would also say this, that this should be a public safety 
mindset on this board, and to that end we would ask that you 
make a minimum five seats designated for public safety 
disciplines. We think that is important. That is actually, I 
believe, the intent. We are asking that you codify it into law, 
and that is important.
    And lastly, I will say this: There are too many captains on 
the ship. The reality of this is, if you are going to--if you 
are going to hold me accountable, please give me the authority 
to make decisions, and I think that is crucial.
    We have a good working relationship with NTIA. We are going 
to continue to do that. But it is not about individuals. It is 
about systems, and any time that you have a single solution 
optimization, you have system fragility. You have to make sure 
this thing is written down, that it is done correctly, that it 
is clear to everyone involved about how we are going to do some 
things. I think that is crucially important.
    I am going to go back and say this again: Nothing about 
what I just said takes away from what I think is a phenomenal 
generational improvement.
    I liken it to the Eisenhower interstate system. Everybody 
can drive on it. It is the service of the people. Some people, 
some local government, some private industry may build private 
roads. That is fine, that is good. Our job is to make sure it 
works, that we are good stewards of the public's money, and we 
do what we do in the light of the sunshine, as we say in 
Florida, Representative Castor, as you well know. This is the 
way we should be doing business.
    I will hold myself fully accountable. As I said to the 
chair the other day, you can have my resignation if you do not 
believe that I am doing this appropriately.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Sheriff Adkinson follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    Mr. Dame, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your opening 
statement.

                  STATEMENT OF MICHAEL E. DAME

    Mr. Dame. Good morning, Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member 
Matsui, Chairman Guthrie, Ranking Member Pallone, and members 
of the subcommittee. My name is Mike Dame, and I am the 
Associate Administrator for Public Safety Communications with 
the National Telecommunications and Information Administration.
    I have served at NTIA for 13 years, with a total of 29 
years of Federal service. My portfolio includes NTIA's 
statutory and delegated responsibilities related to the 
FirstNet Authority and Next Generation 9-1-1 activities. I am 
honored to appear today to provide testimony regarding the 
reauthorization of FirstNet.
    Fourteen years ago, this committee pioneered and Congress 
passed landmark legislation with the Middle Class Tax Relief 
and Job Creation Act of 2012, which established the First 
Responder Network Authority and provided first responders with 
a much-needed nationwide interoperable public safety broadband 
network.
    For decades prior to FirstNet, there were far too many 
instances of major communications failures that cost lives or 
impeded emergency response. Before Congress created FirstNet, 
first responders lacked dedicated access to spectrum and the 
ability to connect regardless of congestion. Public safety 
users instead relied on commercial telecommunications networks 
that treated them no differently than everyday consumer 
traffic.
    FirstNet has achieved incredible milestones in 14 short 
years to serve the needs of public safety by awarding a 
contract to a nationwide telecommunications carrier, completing 
its initial build-out of the Band 14 network comprised of over 
60,000 cell sites, and now serving tens of thousands of public 
safety agencies as subscribers and millions of device 
connections.
    Despite these major accomplishments, rigorous oversight of 
the FirstNet Authority and the multibillion-dollar contract is 
critical to protect first responders and taxpayer dollars. The 
Department of Commerce Office of Inspector General has 
performed significant review and evaluation of the FirstNet 
Authority. The overarching theme across all of these inspector 
general audits is a need for stronger and more systemic 
contract oversight.
    As Congress looks to reauthorize FirstNet, NTIA stands 
ready to support the committee with key reforms to the law 
based on lessons learned from the past 14 years. For example, I 
have witnessed how the FirstNet Authority's statutorily created 
dotted line of independence has been a source of confusion and 
misunderstanding since 2012.
    Recent OIG reviews and my own experience illustrate how 
FirstNet's unclear lines of authority blur responsibility and 
create friction between FirstNet management, the board, and 
NTIA. Legislation should reform the structure of the FirstNet 
Authority by making an NTIA line office similar to NTIA's other 
existing line offices.
    To be clear, I know that some public safety groups and 
stakeholders have expressed concerns with this proposed change, 
but this reform would strengthen FirstNet's mission by enabling 
clear oversight and more efficient stewardship of resources in 
service to first responders. All of these savings will be 
redirected into the network to benefit public safety.
    That said, I recognize that during a time of crisis, public 
safety must act quickly. Stakeholders have expressed fears 
about bureaucrats second-guessing decisions or delaying action. 
That, of course, would be unacceptable. And NTIA appreciates 
the draft text call to clarify what activities would need prior 
approval from NTIA.
    However, other arguments against the removal of FirstNet 
Authority independence appear to either misunderstand or 
misstate the current lines of authority and blur the roles of 
FirstNet Authority staff and the FirstNet Board. Importantly, 
placing the authority clearly into NTIA would have no impact 
whatsoever on the roles and responsibilities of the FirstNet 
Board. In fact, NTIA believes that the forms being contemplated 
by this committee would further strength the board by 
staggering the board terms, driving continuity, and statutorily 
adding additional public safety seats.
    It is often said that FirstNet is a public safety network 
built for and by public safety. That is because of the 
expertise imbedded in both the FirstNet Board and the Public 
Safety Advisory Committee. NTIA has no interest in supplanting 
that expertise. Instead, we rely on it every day.
    I strongly believe that we all share the same goal: 
enhancing the public safety network for the benefit of public 
safety. And I am confident that, working together in good 
faith, we can get to a place where we can achieve that goal and 
set public safety up for success for the next 10 years.
    I appreciate the thoughtful draft the committee has shared 
with the public. I look forward to discussing these ideas 
today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Dame follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    Mr. Agnew, you are recognized for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.

                    STATEMENT OF SCOTT AGNEW

    Mr. Agnew. Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member Matsui, Chairman 
Guthrie, Ranking Member Pallone, and members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before 
you today.
    My name is Scott Agnew, and I serve as president of 
FirstNet and Public Sector Mobility at AT&T. I am responsible 
for ensuring AT&T fulfills its Federal obligation to deploy, 
operate, and continuously evolve the FirstNet network for 
America's first responders. AT&T strongly supports 
reauthorization of FirstNet, and we support doing so well in 
advance of early 2027.
    Thank you for your leadership and commitment to public 
safety and for taking the crucial first steps of releasing 
draft bipartisan legislation. We look forward to working with 
you to ensure FirstNet continues to deliver for the vital first 
responder community.
    FirstNet represents one of the most successful public-
private partnerships in modern infrastructure policy. In 2017, 
AT&T was the only major carrier to answer Congress' call and 
enter the competitive bidding process. Ultimately, AT&T was 
selected over other bidders to build and operate this 
nationwide public safety network. The network was completed on 
time and on budget in March of 2023, and it continues to expand 
and provide new lifesaving services.
    Since 2017, we have built out an interoperable network that 
covers nearly 3 million square miles, making it hundreds of 
thousands of square miles larger on average than commercial 
networks. This is a critical advantage for rural, Tribal, and 
remote communities. Today, despite other marketplace options, 
more first responders choose FirstNet than any other network.
    This historic build was initially funded by the enacting 
statute's allocation of $6.5 billion from auction proceeds, an 
auction in which AT&T spent more than $18 billion. Going 
forward, the statute requires permanent self-funding for 
operations and expansion, which is achieved solely by AT&T 
sustainability payments and additional capital contributions 
from AT&T.
    Indeed, AT&T has demonstrated unparalleled commitment by 
investing more than $14 billion of its own capital since the 
beginning of the FirstNet partnership and expects to invest 
approximately $40 billion of its own capital to build and 
operate FirstNet over the life of the contract.
    The hallmark features of FirstNet are its dedicated network 
core and its always-on priority preemption across Band 14 and 
all of AT&T's 5G and LT commercial spectrum. That means public 
safety can communicate when other networks are congested, like 
during planned events, such as the Super Bowl in Louisiana or 
natural disasters like hurricanes in North Carolina, Georgia, 
and Florida as well as floodings in Texas or wildland fires in 
California.
    As designed by Congress, the network will evolve based on 
direct feedback from public safety. Because of self-sustaining 
funding, the program has plans to invest more than $8 billion 
over the next decade to evolve the network using public safety 
feedback. This includes delivering a physically separated 5G 
core, providing public safety grade direct-to-device satellite 
connectivity, and FirstNet Fusion, the first mission critical 
communications platform that will enable unprecedented 
interoperability across agencies, carriers, and technologies.
    The true measure of FirstNet is performance during crisis. 
During hurricanes Helene and Milton, FirstNet supported more 
than 260 emergency requests across multiple States, restoring 
coverage and sustaining public safety communications when 
commercial networks are strained or unavailable.
    And during the assassination attempt of the President in 
Butler, Pennsylvania, FirstNet performed exactly as designed. 
While commercial networks experienced congestion, FirstNet 
delivered uninterrupted service.
    During these and other mutual aid events, FirstNet is the 
trusted partner that ensures reliable and interoperable 
communications. These are not isolated examples. They are a 
result of a network built specifically for and by public 
safety.
    Congress made a bold and necessary decision when it created 
FirstNet. The vision is now a reality, and it is working.
    AT&T appreciates the committee's bipartisan attention to 
reauthorizing FirstNet. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Agnew follows:]

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    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    We will now begin questioning, and I recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    Sheriff Adkinson, in your opening statement, you mentioned 
there is a lack of clarity about defined roles throughout this 
program and that, quote, ``When everyone is responsible, no one 
is accountable,'' end quote.
    Can you speak a little more about what you mean by that, 
and can you give an example of some of the problems you have 
encountered?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me 
give you some very specific examples.
    The legislation did not contemplate an executive director. 
It left that open to interpretation. As such, we as the board 
of special governmental employees, whereas the executive 
director in this case is a senior manager--frankly, it could 
have been a private employee, it could have contracted, it 
could have been a political appointee. There are multiple 
iterations of that, but the reality is those folks are hired--
vetted, hired, rated, disciplined by NTIA, right, and it should 
be in consultation with the board.
    But I have personally witnessed when the board has given a 
directive that was not followed by the executive director. That 
is beyond problematic. Again, I am sitting up here answering 
for the accountability of someone else and I lack--so am I 
telling you, or am I asking you? And those are two 
fundamentally different--in my business, we say know your 
authority. The first thing you do is you know your authority. 
Those are two fundamentally different things.
    It is my belief that that causes a situation where there 
is--unsure whether or not I will go to NTIA or I don't report 
to NTIA. No, no, I don't report to the board. We need to 
eliminate that.
    It needs to be--from my standpoint, it needs to be clear 
that the board has the ability to hold someone accountable, at 
least the executive director, from a standpoint that--again, if 
the board says don't do this and it is a unanimous decision of 
this board, I am not familiar with any other board in this kind 
of situation that does not have that level of oversight.
    Keep in mind--I will say again--you have three Cabinet-
level officials that are represented on the FirstNet Authority 
Board. So there is direct oversight on the board, as well as we 
serve at the will and pleasure of the Secretary of Commerce. 
That is--and the inspector general is on top of that. So that 
is pretty direct oversight of the board.
    It is in the authority and the mechanism itself, but I 
think we need to address that part of it.
    Mr. Hudson. That is very helpful. Thank you.
    Mr. Dame, this draft legislation moves FirstNet directly 
under the leadership of NTIA. Some critics have claimed this 
will increase bureaucratic delays and diminish effectiveness of 
the network for public safety.
    Are these claims accurate? And if not, can you explain how 
clarifying leadership roles will benefit this program?
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. NTIA has no interest in 
getting involved in the day-to-day operations of FirstNet 
Authority or its contractor, AT&T. In fact, we will always rely 
on the expertise and public safety input of the board and the 
Public Safety Advisory Committee. Those strategic decisions 
made by the board need to be implemented by the staff of the 
FirstNet Authority.
    Where NTIA and the Department of Commerce can excel is to 
support the implementation of those strategic decisions and 
provide performance accountability as it is being implemented 
and after the fact.
    Mr. Hudson. That makes sense.
    Mr. Agnew, Hurricane Helene hit my home State of North 
Carolina, destroying a significant amount of telecommunications 
infrastructure, as you noted in your testimony.
    Can you talk about the first 48 hours after an event like 
this, and what first actions does FirstNet take to restore 
service?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. First, we were significantly prepared and 
engaged with the State in the planning event because we knew 
the hurricane was coming and staged all across the State and 
the surrounding States to be prepared.
    As I mentioned, we responded to 260 requests from public 
safety--specific to your State, 125 requests--partnering, 
imbedding with public safety, prioritizing where those 
deployables or mobile sites need to go. And then post-event, 
evaluating with public safety our response times and what 
incremental investments we need to make. And we fundamentally, 
post-Helene and Milton, made significant investments in our 
network disaster recovery capabilities for public safety so we 
can be prepared for the next event.
    Mr. Hudson. I appreciate that.
    As my time seems to be expiring, as I have said before, if 
I don't hold myself accountable, Sheriff, I can't hold the rest 
of the committee accountable. So I will ask unanimous consent 
to insert in the record the documents, including the staff 
hearing documents list.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mr. Hudson. And will now recognize the ranking member of 
the committee, the gentlelady from California, Ms. Matsui, for 
5 minutes to ask your questions.
    Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    FirstNet now connects more than 1,800 agencies and 
organizations across California, helping first responders 
communicate when every second counts. But too many communities 
still face cellular dead zones, especially in rural areas like 
the California Delta. And the FirstNet coverage maps don't 
always match what responders see on the ground. As we work to 
reauthorize FirstNet, we must make sure rural communities are 
fully covered and not left behind.
    Mr. Agnew, what is AT&T committing to build next to help 
first responders reach the hardest-to-serve areas, and how much 
of that plan is new ground infrastructure like towers versus 
satellite-enabled coverage? And how will you prove that 
coverage exists where first responders actually work?
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congresswoman. We have an excellent 
relationship with CAL FIRE, Cal OES, as you mentioned, and 
California Highway Patrol, and other jurisdictions in the State 
of California, and we continuously receive feedback. We build 
our network based off of public safety feedback.
    But here is the advantage of this public-private 
partnership: AT&T builds out its corporate network as we 
determine, but because of all band priority and our investment, 
public safety benefits from that. And then, of course, there is 
the incremental FirstNet investment that has. And as I 
mentioned, there is $8 billion happening, investing over the 
next 10 years. That $8 billion is going to build approximately 
3 to 4 thousand new towers, purpose-built towers based off the 
feedback of public safety.
    There's been two workshops in your State, and they will 
continue to be in Sacramento and San Diego, where public safety 
can tell the FirstNet Authority exactly where those sites get 
built. And so we are building those sites for public safety, 
not because of profit or return on investment, and this is what 
is special and unique about the program.
    Ms. Matsui. OK. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Dame, as Congress looks at reauthorizing FirstNet, how 
should we strengthen incentives and accountability for 
expanding coverage into rural and hard-to-serve areas? What 
specific metrics and reporting should Congress require to 
verify progress year to year?
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Ranking Member. I think NTIA believes 
strongly and the FirstNet Authority has been investing in only 
those areas where it is not--for additional coverage where it 
is not commercially profitable. That makes no sense. The market 
is going to solve the problems where it is commercially 
profitable. But public safety needs connectivity in those areas 
where there is not currently coverage. So FirstNet has been 
very good in its enhanced coverage to add in rural, Tribal 
lands, remote areas. It has been very focused on that.
    In terms of the metrics, I believe the availability of the 
network and also the performance of the network will be the 
metrics that Congress should be looking at. We have all been at 
the edge of a cell site, and you have difficulty with 
throughput. We need to make sure that first responders don't 
encounter that same problem, because they do lifesaving work. 
It is not the same as when you and I are on a call or pushing 
data up or down.
    Ms. Matsui. Sure. Thank you.
    FirstNet reauthorization is our chance to do two things at 
the same time: keep FirstNet nimble and build around public 
safety input while also strengthening oversight and 
accountability.
    Sheriff Adkinson, you call for Congress to clarify the 
chain of command amongst NTIA FirstNet Board and FirstNet 
Authority.
    Which decisions must remain fast and internal, and which 
are appropriate for NTIA approval because of longstanding 
challenges with contract oversight and performance?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you, Ranking Member. I think there 
are a couple of things to consider. One, when it comes to the 
indication of where sites, towers, or technology, I think that 
is a public-safety-driven metric. That should be decided by 
public safety, where towers should go, what advances in 
technology.
    And by way of example, I don't think any of us in here were 
talking about the Internet of Things 10 years ago. I think one 
of my firefighters would tell you now or one of my deputy 
sheriffs would say there is a body camera, there is a Taser 
Cam, there is an in-car, there is a rocket, you know, or there 
are fire trucks. All of these are things we didn't even 
contemplate, you know, a decade ago.
    Ms. Matsui. Sure.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Those are the kind of decisions that 
should solely be indicated and driven forward by the board 
because that is your public safety expertise. And I don't 
think--I can say I don't think Mr. Dame would want to make a 
decision on where--what body camera, you know, data throughput 
we would be using.
    So I think those are uniquely, with the advice of public 
safety, the input from the PSAC committee, where the board 
should stand out and make these decisions. What we say is there 
has to be an accountability factor to make sure that what is 
the actual will, again, of this board, is actually carried out.
    Ms. Matsui. OK.
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think that is critical.
    Ms. Matsui. Well, thank you very much. And I need to follow 
my chairman's lead and not overrun here.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    I now recognize the chairman of the full committee, Mr. 
Guthrie, for 5 minutes for your questions.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you, Chair. Thanks for yielding, Mr. 
Hudson.
    So first with Sheriff Adkinson, to kind of follow along 
what you were just saying. So the statute of limitations of the 
FirstNet network consists of network core and radio access 
network. So we are talking about how we didn't even discuss 
Internet of Things a decade ago.
    How would you appropriately--how would appropriately 
expanding the definition of the network allow it to evolve with 
technological advancements?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question, Chair 
Guthrie.
    I should have added by way of just full disclosure, if I 
could have been qualified as a network engineer, I wouldn't 
have been a cop.
    So the reality of it is that a lot of this stuff is 
emerging. We know that Moore's Law gives us about 18 months 
prior to obsolescence, and in that we need the flexibility to 
engage what emerging technology is coming. Artificial 
intelligence is going to change the way we mandate and the way 
we deliver these services, and I think the board needs to be 
able to drive that, you know, where we can leverage technology 
to make these things better.
    But crucially, if nothing else comes across, let me say 
this: Coverage is king, because before--we need to do one thing 
well before we try to do 10 other things. And so I think that 
is also--nothing about what I say should take away from the 
desire to continue expanding that. And we are not abandoning 
LMR, land mobile radio. That is a redundancy that is absolutely 
critical to what we do.
    But specific to your question, we need the ability to 
engage new technology and invest in things that support 
coverage enhancement of the quality of the service we are 
delivering.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you.
    And so getting the coverage is so important. So, Mr. Agnew, 
I know in 2024 we had the AT&T outage. FirstNet customers were 
notified of the outage 3 hours after it occurred, and the draft 
discussion is mandating 30 minutes to confirm.
    Is that a reasonable timeline that you believe your company 
could comply with, and what other tools does AT&T provide 
FirstNet users to better understand outages?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question, and thank you 
for your support of this public safety priority, Congressman.
    Yes, we do think it is reasonable. We provide our first 
responders with what we call a network status tool that 
provides updates so they can know exactly what is going on. It 
was the world's first, where they can view on a map the 
performance of their network and if there are any impacts so 
that they can plan accordingly, as well as when it is going to 
be repaired. It is truly unprecedented transparency in public 
safety's network.
    So, in short, Congressman, we do support a 30-minute 
notification.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK. That is good.
    And so, Mr. Dame, I will give you kind of a blanket 
question, but--so what will happen if this first responder 
network is not reauthorized?
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Chairman Guthrie. So I think we would 
run into a significant problem with, first, that there is--we 
need the certainty that the network would be reauthorized to 
make the network continue. But if it were not reauthorized by 
February 22, 2027, I believe you will not have an entity called 
the FirstNet Authority any longer, and the FCC would have to 
pull back the Band 14 license, which is the foundation of the 
contract with AT&T.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK. So, Mr. Agnew, how would that affect you?
    Mr. Agnew. Well, we have a 25-year contract with the 
Government. We would continue to operate that contract and make 
a commitment. But to Mr. Dame's point, the spectrum would be in 
question, and so that is the importance of really reauthorizing 
FirstNet, which is to protect public safety spectrum so it can 
be on the network.
    Mr. Guthrie. OK. Thanks.
    And, Sheriff, would you just kind of, just for us, since 
this is 15 years ago, can you have just like your highlight 
incident of, wow, if we didn't have FirstNet in this instance--
I know you have had hurricanes, you have had other things. My 
good friend from Florida tells me that.
    Could you just kind of highlight a specific instance of, if 
we hadn't had FirstNet, this would have been a bigger disaster 
and we wouldn't have been able to communicate?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I could give you several, but I am going 
to stick with one, which was Hurricane Michael in 2019, as 
Representative Dunn knows very well. The ability to put 
deployable assets to bring cellular service back online was 
critical. It was something I personally witnessed. Previous to 
this, I was at Hurricane Katrina in 2005. I saw what happened 
when there is a fundamental collapse of communication.
    So, yes, the short version is this is critical to the way 
we do business. My own agency went down and had to rely on 
FirstNet to dispatch calls.
    Mr. Guthrie. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
    And my time has expired. I have 5 seconds, but I will 
yields those back. Thank you.
    Mr. Hudson. I appreciate that, Chairman.
    I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, 
Mr. Pallone, for 5 minutes to ask your questions.
    Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Obviously, FirstNet is essential for first responders, and 
we have to ensure that continues to be the case. Having said 
that, there is no shortage of evidence indicating a pattern of 
questionable decision making by the First Responder Network 
Authority leadership.
    For instance, decisions to weaken contract requirements to 
allow milestone payments to be disbursed to the Authority's 
contractor raised serious questions about the value of the 
Authority's independence, especially if that independence does 
not produce the best outcomes for public safety end users.
    So let me ask a couple of questions of the sheriff.
    Do you believe, as I do, that a more direct line of 
authority between NTIA and the FirstNet Authority would help 
increase accountability in some of the instances covered across 
the inspector general reports?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think that there are a couple of things 
here that I want to address, and I am going to bifurcate this.
    First, when a decision by the board is not carried out by 
the executive director, you need to fire the executive 
director, right? And if the board is not carrying that out, you 
need to fire the board members. And so that is where I come 
down first.
    Second part of that, it is in everyone's best interest for 
us to work well and closely with NTIA. I believe that is 
important for any level, any branch of government. But I start 
with accountability on this issue, and I think that is where 
there is a fundamental breakdown.
    If you are going to have accountability, you have to have 
authority to make decisions, and if they didn't do it, then 
that is who should be held accountable. But I do believe in the 
cooperation and relationship with NTIA.
    Mr. Pallone. All right. Now, you know, I believe Congress 
can maintain the important role to the FirstNet Board and still 
preserve the FirstNet Authority's autonomy, if you will, which 
is important to act with speed and precision, but then also 
tighten up some loose ends to ensure investments are put to the 
best possible use.
    So, again, Sheriff, do you agree that we can achieve all 
these goals in this legislation, and what should the committee 
keep in mind as they think about these roles and 
responsibilities working well together towards a shared goal?
    And, again, that is, you know, the role of the FirstNet 
Board, the operational autonomy, and tightening up some of 
these loose ends that keep coming up.
    Sheriff Adkinson. So I told him I would give him authorship 
credit, but Mr. Dame said something the other day that I really 
liked, which is this idea of an elegant solution. The reality 
of it is that public safety has to drive where these 
investments go. I don't see it functioning otherwise. I see it 
being problematic.
    I think there should be a close working relationship with 
NTIA. I think there are opportunities for this Congress to 
address lack of continuity in the way we have come on board, in 
the way we are doing business. So for sure I think that is 
something that matters.
    I don't think any of these things should work in a vacuum, 
but when it comes to making decisions on the financial--and I 
don't think NTIA has ever suggested that they should determine 
where a tower goes or anything of that nature. So I think that 
is a good place for us to come down, is that the decisions on 
the financial placement of towers and things like that resides 
with the board and should maintain that in a public safety 
mindset. And it is my belief that when it comes to at least 
someone that the board can have some direct say and control 
over should be the executive director.
    Mr. Pallone. OK. Now, much of the conversation about 
reauthorizing the FirstNet has rightly focused on the goal of 
interoperability--interoperability for first responders coming 
from different departments or agencies at various levels of 
government.
    So I was going to ask, Mr. Agnew, if you could talk about 
the work being done on the Fusion application, how it could 
address some cross-network barriers that exist from push to 
talk and other mission critical capabilities. You have about a 
minute.
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman Pallone, and thank you 
for your support of the FirstNet program since inception.
    The network is inherently interoperable today. That is the 
foundation, as you laid out, in the initial act.
    From integration and interoperability with legacy, land 
mobile radio, or walkie-talkie solutions, FirstNet Fusion is 
going to make that even easier. Cross-carrier, cross-
technology, cross-network. It puts it in the cloud. It makes it 
more affordable. It makes it more scalable. It makes it easier 
to implement. It just makes it easier for public safety to use 
the technology. It is coming in the next few months, and we are 
going to continue to advance Next Generation interoperability.
    Mr. Pallone. And you are talking about the Fusion 
application?
    Mr. Agnew. The Fusion. That is right.
    Mr. Pallone. All right. All right, thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Allen [presiding]. I thank the ranking member for 
yielding.
    And now that I have the chair, I am going to call on myself 
for my line of questioning.
    I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.
    I learned 2 years ago just how important the ability to 
communicate during an emergency or natural disaster can be when 
Hurricane Helene tore through my district. I will never forget 
the first press conference with the Governor and the State 
director, and the first question the State director got was, 
``Where can people find out where we have shelter, food, and 
water?'' And he said, ``Go to our website.'' We had no 
internet. I realized then Congress has got to do something.
    Since its inception, FirstNet has been an important 
resource for law enforcement and first responders in times like 
this, and considering its reauthorization gives us an 
opportunity to examine its effectiveness and transparency.
    Mr. Agnew, I know FirstNet works as quickly as possible to 
restore connectivity, but can you walk me through how we are 
going to prevent these interruptions in the future and maybe 
use satellites and other redundancies so emergency responders 
can communicate effectively following a major disaster?
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman, for that question. So 
first, you start with the foundationally strong, hardened, 
network-dedicated core to have the highest reliability network 
you can, but then you have to add layers on top of that.
    FirstNet, as you mentioned, with the Response Operations 
Group, have dedicated deployables or mobile cell sites that 
public safety can call out at any moment's notice. So if there 
is a challenge, it can be rectified quickly.
    We also provide equipment, first of its kind, first in this 
world, High Power User Equipment, also known as MegaRange. Six 
times more powerful than a cell phone. So it can extend farther 
coverage using that technology.
    And you mentioned satellite. It is going to be important. 
That is the next layer of being able to provide coverage either 
in white space or particularly if coverage has been 
compromised. We partner with many satellite companies: 
Inmarsat, AST, and Starlink. We have partnered specifically on 
direct-to-cellular capability with AST to deliver FirstNet 
service, like they say in the sky, and so to provide that 
hardened redundancy. So think of FirstNet network as a layered 
network.
    Mr. Allen. Good. Thank you.
    Mr. Dame, can you describe the current government structure 
of the FirstNet Authority and how NTIA ensures its board's 
actions align with statutory requirements and public safety 
promises and priorities?
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Vice Chairman. Under the current law, 
unfortunately, it is confusing as to different reporting lines, 
as it has been discussed in our various statements, but we 
defer very closely to the board in making strategic decisions 
about technology roadmaps, budget decisions, reinvestments. And 
they receive that input themselves from the Public Safety 
Advisory Committee and across all the public safety groups and 
the stakeholders.
    And we are going to continue, as the draft bill suggests, 
to ensure that the strategic decisions continue to occur if 
Congress decides to reauthorize FirstNet and include the draft 
bill provisions.
    Mr. Allen. Thank you.
    Mr. Agnew, most of us are familiar with how government 
contracts work. As I understand it, AT&T's contract with 
FirstNet Authority is somewhat unique.
    Can you walk us through and explain how you support the 
provision in this bill to submit the contract to Congress upon 
request?
    Mr. Agnew. NTIA has made that available to the House E&C, 
and we will make it available. So we fully support the 
transparency. We fully support the oversight and will continue 
to do so.
    Mr. Allen. Good. Thank you.
    Well, Sheriff, I don't want to leave you out.
    Do you have everything you need to deal with disasters? And 
what does Congress need to do to fix that?
    Sheriff Adkinson. You know, I want to say this in a manner 
that somewhat makes sense. It is not the perfection. We don't 
have perfection there, right, but there is a beauty in the 
effort of perfection. And what I mean by that is we are getting 
there.
    I think Congress has been incredibly supportive. I think 
the fee-based system has worked well from that. We continue to 
grow, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done for this 
to be done correctly, and ongoing work. But I appreciate the 
congressional support.
    Mr. Allen. Yes, sir. Well, thank you. And I thank the 
witnesses again.
    And now I yield my time, and I call on Representative Soto 
for his line of questioning.
    Mr. Soto. Thank you so much, Chairman.
    During hurricanes, flooding, fires, even recent freezes--if 
you can believe it, in Central Florida--reliable communication 
is critical for our brave first responders to save lives.
    Congress stepped up, creating FirstNet with the spectrum 
sale proceeds, and we had an audacious goal, which is ensuring 
every community, no matter how rural, urban, or otherwise, has 
access to dependable communications. Every American deserves 
that protection.
    I contacted some of our local Central Florida agencies and 
see that both the Osceola Emergency Management Department, city 
of Kissimmee, city of St. Cloud, Osceola Sheriff's Office, 
several cities in Polk County, as well as Polk County Sheriff 
utilize these services.
    And hearing from my local emergency management director in 
Osceola, Bill Litton, he said, yes, emergency management uses 
FirstNet for our cell phone providers. We have had good 
experience with the service and the resources from FirstNet, 
that they can provide our county pre- and postdisaster. And he 
noted that last year FirstNet has added two additional towers 
in the area to improve reliability in service areas.
    We also heard from Polk County that the overall feedback 
has been positive. Biggest improvement noted has been in areas 
where LT boosters have been installed, with better coverage and 
performance reported in those locations.
    We also got a great feedback from Hurricane Milton as well 
with more than 30 FirstNet emergency support requests from 
public safety in Florida.
    Sheriff Adkinson, thanks for being here. I know you talked 
a little bit about Hurricane Michael already. You know, a day 
after Hurricane Michael, I had texted Dr. Dunn to see how he 
was doing, and he got that text 4 months later and was like, 
``Why are you texting me now?''
    You said your own internal network had gone down. Why do 
you think FirstNet held up during Hurricane Michael while a lot 
of the civilian and local law enforcement networks went down?
    Knowing that categ--Hurricane Michael went from a Cat 1 to 
a Cat 5 in one day, why did FirstNet, you think, hold up?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think it was a question of volume of 
resources, right, the ability to put resources onsite, so even 
when they went down or any--listen, any system can fail. The 
ability to respond immediately and to have the assets, I think, 
was critical in being successful there. I think that is why.
    You know, I think, as we were, as you said, looking for 
members of our local government as well as every other citizen 
at Hurricane Michael to try to assist, we were able to get 
these deployables in to make a difference and to boost that 
cell signal.
    So at the end of the day, I think it is just an economy of 
scale that makes the most system--it is the redundancy. It is 
the resiliency of the system. The analogy for me, again, is 
still the Eisenhower interstate system. There may be better 
roads, but you can count on the interstate being there.
    Mr. Soto. Mr. Agnew, you know, you mentioned some pretty 
big investment goals: $14 billion invested so far, $40 billion 
in total. Can you walk me through a little more on what that 
entails?
    New towers, I know, was a key part, satellite redundancy. 
Can you give us a more clear picture of some of those 
investments?
    Mr. Agnew. I think you are exactly right; it is going to be 
investment-significant in coverage--rural areas, underserved 
areas, Tribal areas.
    Just alone in your district, 35 sites have been invested 
in. You had one site last year, you have more coming. You have 
three more coming this year----
    Mr. Soto. Keep them coming.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Based off of the feedback----
    Mr. Soto. We have hurricanes in central Florida.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. from your first responders.
    Hardening of the network; generators; continuing to expand, 
as the sheriff mentioned, deployables and mobile cell sites 
that need to respond quickly.
    We have to be prepared for every disaster. We have signed 
up for this oversight. No provider has this oversight. We have 
to answer the call, and we have to continuously improve.
    So that investment is going to go--as well as the core. So 
it is significant technical investment to make sure public 
safety can communicate in the worst possible times.
    Mr. Soto. And that is why that reauthorization before 
expiration is so critical, right? So you all can continue these 
investments----
    Mr. Agnew. Right.
    Mr. Soto [continuing]. Uninterrupted, in areas like ours, 
where we get natural disasters on occasion.
    Mr. Agnew. Absolutely.
    Mr. Soto. Thanks.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    And now I call on Mr. Bilirakis from Florida----
    Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Allen [continuing]. For his line of questioning.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Appreciate it very much. Thank you.
    As a former member of the Homeland Security Committee, 
ensuring first responders have the necessary tools and 
resources they need to respond to emergencies has been a high 
priority of mine since coming to Congress.
    In fact, I chaired a hearing on this very topic in 2012 on 
the Subcommittee on Emergency Preparedness, Response, and 
Communications. I know well how fragmented and clumsy public 
safety communications were 14 years ago. From that hearing, 
FirstNet was ultimately born, and I think it has been very 
successful.
    Sheriff Adkinson, can you talk about the relationship that 
the FirstNet Authority Board has with the FirstNet executive 
director? And what is the process if there is a disagreement 
between the two of them? I think that is very important.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Just a point of clarification. 
Relationship between what two entities? I missed that.
    Mr. Bilirakis. Oh, OK. All right. So, again, the process--
can you talk about the relationship that the FirstNet Authority 
Board has with the FirstNet executive director, and what is the 
process if there is a disagreement between them?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Sure.
    Just as a point of clarification again, the executive 
director is vetted, hired, rated by the NTIA. Now, that should 
be in consultation with the Board, and so we always encourage 
that to happen as well.
    And no reflection on the current executive director, but I 
think when you will go back and look at it, that has been at 
the heart of what some of these issues are, if you look at 
these OIG reports, is the relationship between or the inability 
to hold accountable.
    So I just think it is critical for us to have that 
authority to do that. They are technically an NTIA employee, as 
I understand it, under the law. They are a select senior 
management employee. They are not an employee of the Board--or, 
the executive director is not an employee of the FirstNet 
Board.
    Mr. Bilirakis. OK. So, if there is a disagreement, who 
prevails?
    Sheriff Adkinson. NTIA. I mean, they are ultimately who 
would--I mean, we would have to reach out to NTIA and say that 
we had an issue or a disagreement with them--which would put 
them, by the way, in a very unique position, because they don't 
supervise him, per se, every day.
    So, if he decided, for instance--again, if he said, ``I 
won't carry out this order, executive order, or vote of the 
Board,'' you know, the situation would be I would have to call 
and ask for NTIA's assistance to make him comply with the 
request of the Board.
    So I am asking, not telling, at that point.
    Mr. Bilirakis. OK. Thank you.
    Mr. Agnew, can you walk me through the AT&T decided--again, 
why they decided to take the risk to create this network, 
especially in light of the fact that previous State-run systems 
didn't work out so well?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. AT&T has a history of working with public 
safety. We helped develop 9-1-1 in the late 1960s. We invest 
and we are the market leader in public safety answering points. 
It was natural. It was natural because when you invest in 
public safety, they invest in you back.
    Now, we had a tremendous amount of risk. We did not know if 
States would all opt in. There is no mandate to adopt this 
network, so we didn't know public safety would come. And we are 
signing up for a huge contract with a tremendous amount of 
oversight that is unprecedented, where we have to meet 36 
requirements, thousands of reports that can continue to evolve.
    So there was a tremendous amount of risk. But we thought, 
if we invest and partner with public safety, that we can run a 
good business. And while I was nervous when we launched the 
network in September of 2017--we got our first subscriber from 
Fairfax County, Virginia, second subscriber from Casper, 
Wyoming--we realized it would work. And now we are here with a 
very successful network that public safety relies on every day.
    Mr. Bilirakis. We appreciate that.
    OK. Again, a followup question for Mr. Agnew.
    Can you briefly explain the current public safety 
communications marketplace and how it has changed in the past 
14 years?
    And what problem has FirstNet solved, and what are areas 
that still need to be addressed?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. I will just----
    Mr. Bilirakis. I know that is a lot, and we only have a few 
seconds.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Be brief.
    FirstNet was the catalyst. Public safety was an underserved 
community that was ignored. It was just offered best-effort 
service. FirstNet puts public safety at the top.
    FirstNet is needed to continue on, because you need that 
catalyst for the next decades to come to make sure public 
safety is paid attention to.
    Mr. Bilirakis. All right. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    And now I call on Representative Clarke for her line of 
questioning.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Good morning. Let me thank Chairman Guthrie, Ranking Member 
Pallone, Ranking Member Matsui for holding this hearing.
    And thank you to our panel of witnesses for joining us 
today.
    Let me also extend my gratitude to Congresswoman McClellan 
and Congressman Dunn for their work in putting together a good-
faith, bipartisan bill to reauthorize this critical public 
safety program.
    As a New Yorker and a former member of the New York City 
Council who took office in January of 2002, mere months after 
the devastating attacks of September 11th, this issue is truly 
personal for me. I know all too well the importance of strong 
public safety communications networks.
    Our first responders are on the front lines in responding 
to terrorist attacks, hurricanes, wildfires, earthquakes, and 
other natural disasters. We owe it to them to provide a 
reliable communications network free from interference in times 
of crisis when they are putting their lives on the line to save 
others.
    The firefighters, police, and other first responders to the 
9/11 attacks dealt with communications failures that undermined 
their ability to coordinate rescue/recovery efforts in a way 
that must never happen again.
    From that great tragedy and the recommendations of the 9/11 
Commission, the First Responder Network Authority was born. 
Since its launch in 2017, FirstNet has been adopted in all 50 
States, the District of Columbia, and 6 territories. Billions 
have been spent building out the network to cover nearly 3 
million square miles, and first responders across the country 
now use the network to enhance communications and leverage data 
capabilities.
    The success of FirstNet has also sparked competition in the 
market, inspiring other carriers, such as T-Mobile and Verizon, 
to create their own products that are now successfully serving 
public safety subscribers. This has been a win-win for the 
industry and the public safety community at large.
    While no government program is perfect, it is clear that 
FirstNet has been wildly successful, and it is critical that we 
move forward with legislation that preserves FirstNet's 
authority to operate beyond the upcoming sunset date.
    As with any program, proper oversight is critical to 
ensuring accountability. And I am confident that this committee 
can find a path forward that allows us in Congress to move with 
haste towards the reauthorization necessary to provide 
certainty to the public safety community while also ensuring 
that any concerns raised by the Office of the Inspector General 
and Government Accountability Office are also addressed 
adequately.
    My question is to you, Sheriff Adkinson. In your view, does 
FirstNet Authority currently have sufficient personnel 
resources to implement the corrective actions or improvements 
identified in recent inspector general reports?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think we would be well-served to 
increase our field operations in regard to outreach at the 
local agencies, right? Because we ultimately have to rely on 
our public safety professionals to say, ``Is this working? 
Where are there shortcomings?''
    So I think there is opportunity to increase there. I like 
the idea of adding things like a strategic office to be looking 
forward to the future to understand what we need to be doing.
    So there are a couple of areas where I think it is 
appropriate to expand, but there may be appropriate areas to 
contract, as well, too. One does not necessarily mean adding 
others.
    But I do believe, from an area of accountability, we are 
not served well if we are not out meeting with the men and 
women of public safety all across the country.
    And I would point out, when we make decisions on--let's 
just say we were going to expand to a Tribal area. That is not 
commercially viable for AT&T in some times. But I am not in the 
business of worrying what is commercially viable for them. I am 
in the business of making sure this gets done and serves the 
citizen. That is what the Board is about. So I think----
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. We are working that way.
    Ms. Clarke. Very well.
    Can you explain why it is so important for the Board of 
FirstNet to have a role free from outside interference? And 
what does that mean specifically for reinvestment and public 
safety representation? Do you believe the Board can continue to 
do its work while also working collaboratively with the NTIA 
for the benefit of first responders?
    Sheriff Adkinson. First of all, I fundamentally believe 
that there is no reason that anyone can't work collaboratively 
inside. We all have the same bosses, right? At the end of the 
day, that is the citizens we serve. And we are stewards of the 
citizens' trust and money. And I realize these are fee-based, 
but let me be clear: It is the public's money, in my opinion, 
and we have that responsibility.
    I think we can work collaboratively toward that. I think 
what is crucial is that no interference be made in the way 
funds are expended to enhance public safety. That would be 
problematic. I haven't actually heard that suggested, so I want 
to be clear. But that would be problematic for me. I think it 
would be problematic for public safety at large and--but that 
hasn't happened, and I don't believe that that will happen.
    If it did, I think that would be something the Board would 
have an absolute moral responsibility to stand up and say so.
    Ms. Clarke. Thank you.
    I have run out of time. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentlelady for yielding.
    And now I call on Dr. Dunn for your questions, 5 minutes.
    Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And, Sheriff Adkinson, thank you for being here today. I 
know it is hard to leave Florida, it is so beautiful.
    I urge my colleagues to support this bipartisan bill, the 
First Responder Network Reauthorization Act. And I thank 
Representative Jennifer McClellan for her colead on this.
    Jennifer, thank you. This is a great bill.
    When Congress created the First Responder Network 
Authority, there was a clear mandate to have a public safety 
preempted network that would be used exclusively for first 
responders on the ground. Interestingly, this also includes 
Members of Congress and even the Senate.
    Our Nation's heroes and public servants who are the first 
to respond and the first people to put their lives on the line 
to protect Americans need robust communications. It was a very 
clear mandate to give our local communities the resources they 
need to respond to tragedies.
    And what we have seen since 2017 when the contract was 
awarded has been a tremendous success story. We have also 
learned some lessons, that our job in Congress as enforcers and 
oversight of the program is critical. And that includes 
contract transparency and maintaining accountability at all 
levels, so I thank Chairman Sheriff Adkinson for emphasizing 
that.
    FirstNet is imperative to the Florida Panhandle before, 
during, and after disasters. Our district knows all too well 
the effects of hurricanes and tropical storms in our 
communities. We have been hit by 4 major hurricanes in the last 
8 years. We are still rebuilding and recovering from Hurricane 
Michael.
    Mr. Agnew, first question: FirstNet was directed to provide 
nationwide interoperability. Briefly, what steps have you taken 
to solve the interoperability issue to ensure agencies using 
other carriers can still communicate during emergencies?
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you, Congressman, and thank you for your 
support of this legislation.
    FirstNet is interoperable, let me be clear. It was designed 
to be interoperable from the ground up. Data, voice, text 
message--you can work amongst commercial carriers.
    The next phase of interoperability is ensuring that land 
mobile radios or walkie-talkies--those legacy radio systems--
are interoperable. And so that is--when I had mentioned 
earlier, FirstNet Fusion is going to allow for that to be more 
seamless and easier to use.
    Mr. Dunn. So I like to think that we have solved the 
confusion of interoperability here. I mean, interoperability 
means everybody can operate on it, right?
    Mr. Agnew. That--interoperability means we can----
    Mr. Dunn. I didn't think we needed a dictionary on that.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Talk amongst each other, right?
    Mr. Dunn. Sheriff Adkinson--Chairman Adkinson, thank you 
for your service.
    You stated, as Board chair, the roles and responsibilities 
of NTIA, the Board, and the Authority are not well-defined in 
statute. When everybody is held responsible, nobody is 
responsible, all right?
    And, Mr. Dame, you had a similar statement as well.
    Sheriff, in your opinion, how should Congress clarify this 
statute?
    And, Mr. Dame, I want you to answer afterwards.
    Sheriff Adkinson. So, you know, that is tyranny of the 
commons, right? It becomes everybody's responsibility when it 
is no one's.
    You know, when we first came on the Board, there was some 
reticence to give the Board members access to information that 
we believed was fundamentally necessary to do that. Now, we 
were able to ultimately achieve that, but there should be no 
hesitation. When it comes to an executive director, when a 
Board asks for information--i.e., the contract, i.e., 
discussions about what agencies are on the--the only answer, 
acceptable answer, is yes. And so, when it is not, we have got 
a problem.
    And so I believe fundamentally that, again, if I am going 
to sit at this table and answer for the conduct of that, then I 
should have the authority to make decisions on who that person 
is and whether or not they are performing their job.
    Mr. Dunn. Thank you for that.
    Mr. Dame, briefly. We are running out of time.
    Mr. Dame. Yep.
    NTIA agrees with what Sheriff Adkinson is describing, in 
that the Board is of paramount importance, along with the 
Public Safety Advisory Committee. They should still be making 
strategic decisions about reinvestments and strategic roadmaps, 
and NTIA can help with the implementation and performance 
accountability.
    Mr. Dunn. Well, I would like to think this bill will help 
you with that.
    And in the last few seconds we have, are there local, 
Federal, or permitting requirements that have inhibited 
FirstNet's tower deployment in rural areas?
    Mr. Dame?
    Mr. Dame. I think you might want to get Mr. Agnew's input, 
sir.
    Mr. Dunn. Mr. Agnew?
    Mr. Agnew. Allowing--changing permitting to make public 
safety towers to be built more quickly would help the public 
safety network.
    Mr. Dunn. All right. Well, please keep us informed.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired, and 
I yield back.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    And now I would call on Representative Ruiz for your line 
of questioning.
    Mr. Ruiz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I represent California's 25th District, which includes 
desert, rural communities, Tribal lands, agricultural regions, 
and some of the country's most extreme weather, extreme heat 
conditions, in the southeast corner of California. In the 
Coachella and Imperial Valley, summer temperatures routinely 
exceed 110 degrees Fahrenheit for days, even weeks, and at 
times reaches up to 130, straining power and communication 
systems. Frequent dust storms, sometimes multiple times a 
month, reduce visibility and damage critical equipment with 
little warning.
    First responders operate far from major infrastructure 
during wildfires, dust storms, power shutoffs, and prolonged 
extreme heat that pushes both people and systems to their 
limits. For these communities, reliable emergency 
communications are not a convenience, they are lifesaving.
    That is why reauthorizing the First Responder Network 
Authority, or FirstNet, is so important. FirstNet ensures that, 
when everything else fails, first responders can still 
communicate.
    This bill recognizes that FirstNet is no longer an 
experiment but critical national infrastructure that must be 
governed, monitored, and strengthened. I appreciate that it 
reauthorizes FirstNet through 2037, providing long-term 
stability while focusing on reliability, transparency, and 
equity.
    And reliability is my first concern. Extreme heat and 
frequent dust storms place constant stress on communication 
systems, power outages last longer, equipment fails more often, 
and response times stretch.
    So, Mr. Agnew, in areas like mine facing extreme heat, dust 
storms, and wildfires, how does FirstNet keep service running 
during extended power outages and equipment strain?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question.
    We continue to harden the site generators using our 
deployable program when there is a problem that comes out. We--
--
    Mr. Ruiz. How long does it take to send--you said 
``deployable.'' How long does it take to send generators, and 
how close are those generators to the southeast corner of 
California?
    Mr. Agnew. We can get the specific locations to your 
district of how far. But we stage our generators, stage our 
deployables within access to get to first responders quickly. 
We have requirements to execute that per the contract to meet 
delivery of those.
    Mr. Ruiz. OK.
    This bill takes important steps by requiring regular 
business continuity and disaster recovery plans subject to 
Federal approval. This matters because failures during 
wildfires, dust storms, or outages put lives at risk. And we 
need to know how quickly FirstNet recovers and whether service 
is available for rural and Tribal communities, not just big 
cities.
    So transparency is my next concern. Responders need real-
time, accurate information. This bill's outage notification and 
status tool requirements are a meaningful improvement, but 
transparency only works if the information is timely and 
accessible during an active emergency.
    Mr. Agnew, again, when an outage occurs, how quickly does 
that information reach first responders in the field, not just 
agency leadership?
    Mr. Agnew. Right. So we are working, continuing to evolve 
that communication step. As we mentioned, the network status 
tool provides information in near-realtime so leadership and 
individuals in public safety can make decisions quickly.
    Ensuring that communication gets down to the working level, 
we are continuing to work with public safety. There is an 
opportunity for users to actually sign up on notifications via 
text and via email. And so it is a continual educational 
process that we have to do.
    But we acknowledge, more communication. The tools are 
there, though. It has already been built.
    Mr. Ruiz. OK.
    Sheriff Adkinson, are outage notifications reaching first 
responders quickly enough?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I don't think it is ever quick enough 
unless it is instantaneous, right? We seek--again, we go back--
we seek for the perfection. But I think it is getting there 
very, very quickly.
    Is there room for improvement? I think there is always room 
for improvement. Instantaneous would be the only acceptable 
answer. Everything else requires improvement.
    Mr. Ruiz. And so what accountability measures exist if 
outage notifications are delayed or incomplete?
    Sheriff Adkinson. So a couple of things.
    One, we are typically able to notify fairly quickly. When I 
say ``fairly quickly,'' I mean in a matter of 10 to 15 minutes 
based on, you know, what the availability and what the area of 
outage is.
    But I would add to that that we as a board are starting to 
develop key performance indexes that we wanted to put in place 
as measurables so that AT&T can give us direct response into 
things that we think are important past what has been done in 
the past.
    So this is part of this idea of we need more 
accountability, more metrics to show. That is something the 
Board is going to do. We are already looking at that. And I 
think that is critically important to make sure we are getting 
our money's worth out of it.
    Mr. Ruiz. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    And now I call on Representative Pfluger from the great 
State of Texas for your questions.
    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Appreciate the witnesses for being here, and a very 
important conversation that we are having. It is obviously 
important to Texas after the flooding of last July, and that 
is, you know, one of the many examples I think we can point to 
of why FirstNet is so critically important.
    And my perspective will come, kind of, from the--not just 
the Energy and Commerce lane but also from the Homeland 
Security perspective as well.
    So I will start with Mr. Agnew.
    And thank you for being here.
    I want to talk about just assessing who is on the network, 
assessing which local and State partners have access.
    And, you know, if we wanted to know which folks in our area 
were currently accessed, how does that work? And if we don't 
have all the information, then what do we need to do, either 
via statute or some other means, to know that information?
    Mr. Agnew. We appreciate that question. And we continue to 
work with first responders to allow us to communicate who is on 
the network. We understand it is so important from a mutual-aid 
perspective, defining ``mutual aid'' as when one county goes to 
another county to support.
    And we are working with the Authority for a process to more 
seamlessly get the approvals from each of the public safety 
agencies to say, ``Yes, you can use my name.'' Right now, there 
are restrictions for our ability to do that through the FCC 
proprietary network information, but we are working 
collaboratively with the Authority to make sure that will 
happen.
    It is so important for public safety to know that they are 
on the network, so we see the value in it.
    Mr. Pfluger. Do you think that is something in the 
reauthorization that we need to add to the statute provisions, 
which is kind of a transparency piece of who is on?
    Mr. Agnew. Because I think--because both AT&T and the 
FirstNet Authority are in agreement that this needs to be done, 
I don't think it is necessary to add it in, but it is something 
that we are working on.
    Mr. Pfluger. OK. Yeah, we will continue to look at that, 
because I think that is key. And, you know, just knowing who is 
on the net----
    Mr. Agnew. Right.
    Mr. Pfluger [continuing]. Who is, you know--as a fighter 
pilot, it is like, who is on?
    Mr. Agnew. That is right.
    Mr. Pfluger. And who are we talking to?
    Mr. Agnew. That is right.
    Mr. Pfluger. And who is not on, more importantly.
    Mr. Agnew. Right.
    Mr. Pfluger. So thank you for that.
    I represent AST in Midland, Texas, and proud of the work 
that they are doing to deliver, you know, another domain of 
connectivity. And I think that that layer helps in remote 
areas, especially like we experienced during the flooding.
    I think the Senate held a hearing, and the relationship 
with AT&T and AST was raised last week. So I would love to 
hear, you know, any details that you are willing to talk to us 
about with that relationship and how it relates to FirstNet 
and, you know, another layer of connectivity.
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question, Congressman.
    The beauty of this public-private partnership is, when AT&T 
makes an investment, a FirstNet user takes advantage of it. And 
so the investment that actually is being made in AST is AT&T.
    Now, my group works back with AT&T, and we ensure that 
anything that is deployed from AT&T meets the needs of first 
responders. So when AST goes up, when it fully launches, it 
will be for first responders, a version. It will have priority, 
preemption. We talk about push-to-talk, mission critical. It 
will go well beyond texting.
    And we are excited. We are going to open--at the end of 
this month, we are going to open up customers signing up for 
trials specific to public safety, and it is going to launch 
first with public safety customers, specifically FirstNet 
customers.
    And we are more than happy to talk to any Member in detail 
about specifically what the service will offer.
    Mr. Pfluger. That is fantastic. It is another domain, 
especially in rural America, that will help provide that 
connectivity.
    Sheriff, thank you for your service. I was stationed at 
Tyndall Air Force Base, just to the east of you, for many 
years, and want to talk about a couple of things.
    The relationship between the FirstNet CEO, the Board, and 
NTIA--my understanding is that the Board and the chair provide 
recommendations and strategic guidance to the CEO, but those 
are not necessarily binding. And, in practice, this could mean 
that the CEO doesn't necessarily have to, you know, follow some 
of the recommendations.
    A, is that accurate? And, then, in your time as Board 
chair, have there been instances where recommendations maybe 
didn't necessarily get to the goal line?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think because the position of chief 
executive--or, the position of executive director wasn't 
originally contemplated and it left that ambiguity, that the 
executive director can--and, quite frankly, in the past has--
again, directly went against what was the will of the Board.
    I will be specific. There was a multimillion-dollar task 
order, which we said--now, I want to be clear, not the current 
executive director--but that we said--we, as the Board--based 
on an executive order from the President of the United States 
that we considered to be binding to FirstNet, should not have 
been signed. That was against the will of the Board. Whatever 
rationale, whatever reason that was, it just didn't--it didn't 
work for us.
    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you.
    My time has expired.
    AT&T, thank you for taking the initiative on this and 
fielding something that is super-important.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Allen. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
    And now I call on Representative Peters for your questions.
    Mr. Peters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    In Congress we have the responsibility to enable our first 
responders to make the best decisions to keep our communities 
safe through natural disasters and other emergency events. The 
First Responder Network Authority was created in 2012 to 
oversee Nationwide Public Safety Broadband Network in support 
of this goal.
    First responders like San Diego Police Department and San 
Diego Fire and Rescue in my district use the FirstNet network, 
which provides them with coverage throughout the region as well 
as a guarantee of priority and preemption services in the case 
of heavy congestion and use.
    In addition to using FirstNet services in case of 
disasters, San Diego's first responders also use FirstNet 
deployable assets for planned events that strain our local 
network.
    Last summer, first responders in San Diego had the 
opportunity to meet with FirstNet representatives to discuss 
ongoing concerns and opportunities for improvement, like dead 
zones in areas with poor connections.
    Sheriff Adkinson, I want to just say first to you and to 
everyone, thank you for that engagement.
    How do you engage with and respond to coverage concerns 
from the first responder on the ground?
    And, Sheriff, are there any particular themes you hear out 
of those meetings?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question. It is 
actually a very relevant question because the Authority has 
carried out coverage and enhancement workshops across the 
country--we are just wrapping some of those up now--where we 
meet with the members of that community and say, ``Where are 
our shortcomings?''
    And then we get a priority list from them that says, ``This 
is where we believe we need assistance, where things need to be 
improved.'' It is a big list. It is a big country--
    Mr. Peters. Have you seen particular major themes come 
across that, or----
    Sheriff Adkinson. For sure. I think there are two things 
that come almost immediately.
    Obviously, your rural areas are underserved, and that is 
part of our emphasis.
    The other thing is, when we are talking about inside of 
buildings and things of that nature where we have 
infrastructure problems, that we need to straighten it----
    Mr. Peters. OK.
    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. That we need to strengthen 
that.
    So those two things are pretty unanimous, that, you know, 
where we have these difficult terrains----
    Mr. Peters. All right.
    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. Or the buildings themselves 
sometimes become problematic.
    But that is how we identify. We have to meet with these 
people to identify it.
    Mr. Peters. Great. Thank you.
    So my district is not rural. It is mostly urban and 
suburban. We have fewer issues with coverage. We have more 
struggles with capacity. There are communities that lack 
coverage, leaving the public safety community without the tools 
to coordinate and communicate with others in times of 
emergency.
    So it might be difficult to balance those needs, but I 
wonder, what insight can you give me on how you make your 
reinvestment decisions? How do you balance capacity, the 
ability to serve--the quantity, versus coverage?
    Sheriff Adkinson. We rely very heavily on our Public Safety 
Advocacy Committee and what the locals there in those 
communities say.
    So, again, the issue is always going to be, we are looking 
at what New Hampshire needs, we look at what California needs, 
we look at what Michigan needs, and then try to make the best 
educated decision to say, ``This is the priority list.''
    But that almost is fundamentally based on where the most 
immediate needs are at, and there are a lot of competing needs. 
To your point, in a city--you know, I have spent a lot of time 
in Florida's capital, in Tallahassee, and there were times that 
we were struggling inside the Department of Law Enforcement's 
building. Well, Department of Law Enforcement needs to be able 
to speak on FirstNet, right? They are on it. So we got in there 
and we got this resolved.
    Mr. Peters. Right.
    Sheriff Adkinson. But it is a modern building in a modern 
city.
    So it is very difficult. We just try to prioritize based on 
what is the most pressing need.
    Mr. Peters. Those decisions are made regionally?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Pardon?
    Mr. Peters. Region by region?
    Sheriff Adkinson. They are made by State, and then the 
Board, at the advice of the--with the PSAC, the Public Safety 
Advocacy Committee----
    Mr. Peters. OK.
    Sheriff Adkinson [continuing]. Kind of forms the teams and 
say, ``OK, this is the way we are going to do it.'' But it 
doesn't necessarily--it could all be in one particular area if 
that was the most pressing need.
    Mr. Peters. I have a sense of how we would respond to the 
coverage issues in the rural areas, but maybe I could follow up 
with you on, what about buildings? What are the kinds of things 
we should look forward to hearing about in terms of trying to 
solve coverage and accessibility within buildings?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely critical. As I said, we were 
struggling with coverage inside the Department of Law 
Enforcement building. We recently resolved the Louisiana State 
Police's problem at their training ground. And we have to be 
aware, we have to know that is going on and then try to 
prioritize that.
    But buildings, we just did one in Tarrant County, Texas--
the same thing. In a skyscraper we had this problem.
    So these are things that's really of equal footing. We 
think traditional towers and satellites and things like that. 
Sometimes it is bidirectional antenna. Sometimes it is 
strengthening. A lot of different avenues to get there.
    Mr. Peters. Mr. Agnew, I will give you an opportunity to 
respond to that as well.
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for the question.
    In urban areas, the sheriff is right, in-building. But we 
have developed what we call Cell Booster Pros, FirstNet Band 
14-capable devices. We have instituted it in thousands of 
buildings. So, during the coverage workshop, that process 
occurs.
    So it is not just your macro----
    Mr. Peters. Right.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. It is your in-buildings. So we are 
deploying technologies to help that in-building area.
    Mr. Peters. OK. Thank you.
    It is an important program. Thank you all for your work.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson [presiding]. Thank you.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. 
Griffith, for 5 minutes for your questions.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much.
    I had similar questions to my colleague from California, on 
the other side of that coin. I represent a large, mountainous, 
rural district.
    So, Sheriff Adkinson, I am coming to you. And you touched 
on some of it in your opening and in your comments to 
Representative Peters.
    But, I mean, my district is larger than nine States by 
landmass, even though I am in Virginia. Most people don't 
realize that Virginia is as big as it is. And I represent a big 
chunk of the mountains in Virginia, and we don't even have cell 
coverage in all those areas. Depending on which way the 
mountain leans or where you happen to be on the road, you can 
have some significant holes in areas that people wouldn't 
realize.
    I mean, it hasn't happened lately, but even a few miles 
outside of Blacksburg, in Virginia Tech, there were times not 
that long ago where people were like,``Yeah, we don't have a 
signal,'' even though it is one of the most wired communities 
in Virginia.
    So, when you are looking at all this--and you have gone 
into it a little bit, but--what is the criteria that you all 
use to select sites for FirstNet equipment?
    I know there are a lot of problems and you have a lot of 
different issues, whether it is buildings or mountains. In 
Representative Peters' district it is the buildings, in mine it 
is the mountains.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Amen. Yes, sir.
    You know, forgive me if I quote Rousseau on this, but don't 
let perfect be the enemy of better.
    Mr. Griffith. There you go.
    Sheriff Adkinson. What we are trying to do is say, where 
can we solve the most impact as quickly as possible until we 
can get back and make it perfect, right, to continue to make it 
better?
    We just did some in the mountains recently, and I--you 
might find this hard to believe, but Florida is a very flat 
State. And I think we are at, you know--
    Mr. Griffith. I have noticed that when visiting your 
beaches, sir.
    Sheriff Adkinson. I am actually at the tallest point, and 
it is about 160 feet, just so you know.
    But the reality--all joking aside, the reality of it is, we 
try to prioritize on where can we have the most impact and what 
modality is the best, right? So it may be the satellite, it may 
be the tower, it may be the booster, whichever that is.
    But there is an emphasis given on those places that do not 
have coverage first. So the problem is, I give you coverage, 
and you go, ``Well, maybe it is not as good as it needs to be 
yet.''
    But nobody from this Authority or certainly this board 
should ever tell you to switch to FirstNet if it does not work 
sustainably for you. You will never hear a board member say 
that. That is not our job to do that. It is to support the 
American people.
    Mr. Griffith. Yeah.
    And I know you mentioned earlier, in your county, one of 
the hurricanes. When we got hit with Helene a year and a piece 
ago, a big section of my district was--I mean, law enforcement 
and everybody was out of touch with anybody else because we 
lost--for various reasons, we lost cell coverage across a big 
swath of my district.
    So let's talk about these planned--you mentioned, and 
several others have as well--you mentioned the planned Coverage 
Enhancement Workshops, and I would like to know what that 
entails.
    And, as a part of that, I would like to know if you have 
any planned for south side or southwest Virginia. Because, you 
know, all politics is local. What are you doing in my district?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I am actually intimately familiar with 
that, Representative.
    No, the short version is yes. We listen to the 
representatives from your State to tell us where you think is 
the priority, where do you believe that it should be first, and 
what can most correct your problems fastest.
    So you have had that Coverage--I know for a--you have had a 
Coverage Enhancement Workshop in your State. And we took those 
recommendations--I apologize, I will have to get back with you 
on the specifics of that. That has been done.
    Mr. Griffith. And I appreciate that. And here is the 
concern that happens--
    Mr. Agnew. Congressman?
    Mr. Griffith. And I appreciate--I will get to you in just a 
second.
    I appreciate that you have had something in the State. Here 
is the problem: I have counties in my district that are closer 
to seven other State capitals than they are to Richmond. So, if 
you are not actually on my end of the State, you might not be 
getting the same picture, because they sometimes--and they try 
their hardest, I am not fussing--but sometimes they don't 
understand what is happening out in the mountainous areas, 
because, I mean, from Richmond to the end of my district is 
about 10, 10\1/2\ hours. So they are a lot closer to the 
capital of, as I said, seven or nine other States.
    Get back to me on that.
    And then you wanted to say something, Mr. Agnew.
    Mr. Agnew. Yes, Congressman. I just----
    Mr. Griffith. You have about 45 seconds.
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. And I will be fast.
    Your district has been a major focus. You have----
    Mr. Griffith. Great.
    Mr. Agnew [continuing]. Thirty sites that have been built.
    Mr. Griffith. How many?
    Mr. Agnew. Thirty have been built.
    Mr. Griffith. That is fabulous. Thanks.
    Mr. Agnew. And 7 of them--or, 14 of them were part of the 
opt-in process, where public safety you have to build here or 
Virginia is not opting in.
    In the coverage workshops, there are seven identified areas 
in your network. There is a partnership with your local telecom 
and electric provider. That is how Lee County is getting 
service. So this network is designed for your first responders.
    Mr. Griffith. All right. I am going to go over a minute or 
two, and I apologize, Mr. Chairman.
    When you talk about Lee County, is that when we went down 
there for the tower that they put up in Lee County? I think you 
put a couple of them up there.
    Mr. Agnew. That is correct.
    Mr. Griffith. That was fabulous. It not only gave us the 
first responders, but it gave us the first time in that part of 
the county we had any cell coverage.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Dingell for 5 
minutes to ask your questions.
    Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And thank you to the witnesses for being here.
    I want to take a moment to underscore just how essential 
FirstNet is for public safety in Michigan. It is a lifeline for 
first responders.
    In my district, the Ann Arbor Fire and the University of 
Michigan Health System rely on it every day. At the University 
of Michigan, nurses use iPads connected to FirstNet to ensure 
they remain prioritized above commercial networks during 
emergencies so they can communicate when it matters most.
    More than 950 public safety agencies and organizations in 
Michigan use FirstNet, supported by over 1,850 Band 14 sites. 
In my district alone, there are more than 10,000 FirstNet 
subscribers. And, nationwide, the network now supports more 
than 7 million connections and covers nearly 3 million square 
miles.
    Across Michigan, police, fire, EMS, and other first 
responders turn to FirstNet not just for connectivity but for 
operational reliability. They use it to restore communication 
during severe weather, coordinate rescues using push-to-talk 
and real-time data, and improve indoor coverage.
    And, as our emergency response needs grow, we have to 
ensure that FirstNet stays secure, resilient, and 
interconnected with other emergency communications. And that is 
why this reauthorization matters and why it is so important we 
get it right.
    So FirstNet's value is clearest when everything else fails. 
In Michigan, we saw FirstNet play a critical role during severe 
weather and search-and-rescue operations in the Upper 
Peninsula, where a FirstNet satellite cell on a light truck 
helped coordinate the response that led to the safe recovery of 
a missing 8-year-old after nearly 50 hours.
    Sheriff Adkinson, can you speak to why it is critical for 
Congress to reauthorize FirstNet to ensure first responders 
have reliable, resilient communications?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.
    Absolutely fundamentally necessary.
    I will use my own organization again. We are on what was 
called the State Law Enforcement Radio System. That system 
temporarily went down. It is not supposed to go down. It went 
down. But because we made the decision when Florida opted in 
under Governor Scott, I think in 2018--we made that decision 
that any infrastructure we built was going to have a FirstNet 
backup--we were able to go from the failure of our land mobile 
radio to dispatching calls. And, again, I am medical--I am air 
medical as well as law enforcement, and we were able to do that 
over our FirstNet phones.
    Seamless service and redundancy and resiliency--it is 
critical because lives matter.
    Mrs. Dingell. So I am going to--the draft bill would extend 
FirstNet's authority through 2037, but it also makes governance 
changes to the program by removing the FirstNet Authority 
status as an independent entity and subjecting its actions to a 
vote by the NTIA.
    I understand that first responders and public safety 
officials have concerns about this shift, particularly the 
requirement that most FirstNet actions must receive prior NTIA 
approval. On the other hand, the Office of Inspector General 
has detailed several concerns, including network reliability 
issues and deficiencies in contract administration.
    Sheriff Adkinson, how do you assess the potential impacts 
of making the FirstNet's actions subject to NTIA approval? And 
what safeguards are necessary to ensure that first responders 
continue to have an independent voice in how the network is 
governed and operated?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.
    I think there are a couple things.
    Pragmatically, the way it functions now is NTIA hires 
essentially every employee. Now, they can have consultation and 
may choose to do that. They are not--to my knowledge not 
required by law to consult before even hiring the executive 
director. We certainly think that that is something the Board 
needs direct oversight on, as I have said numerous times today.
    The second part of that is, where there cannot be a 
breakdown--where there absolutely cannot be a breakdown--is in 
the building-out strategic planning and growth of this system. 
That cannot in any way, shape, or form be impaired, because 
otherwise you are going to deal with--let's just say this: It 
should be done by the experts and that meet the needs of the 
people we serve.
    So that, to me, is a non sequitur--a nonnegotiable in that 
regard.
    Mrs. Dingell. I am going to be out of time, so I want to 
thank you. I am going to have more--I had more questions for 
the other two witnesses, so you are going to get them on the 
record.
    This is critical for my State and our getting it right.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Latta for 5 minutes to ask 
your questions.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    And thanks to our panel for being with us today. This is 
really important.
    I was on the committee when we had our first hearings for 
FirstNet, and as I mentioned in a prior hearing, you could say 
that things didn't go quite well. It was kind of a top-down 
approach that was coming from pretty much Washington to the 
local governments, and it just wasn't working.
    And I can remember the hearing that we had, that there was 
someone from Ohio who testified on behalf--and also from 
Maryland. I can't believe I can still remember this. But what 
we did see over time was a vast improvement.
    And so, you know, Sheriff, if I could just start with you. 
And I think it is important, because, again, when I am out with 
all of my first responders across my district--and I have a 
pretty big district that spans across northern Ohio--we have to 
make sure, you know, that the coverage is there and that it is 
working.
    And I know that--I have been out for--one was more of a 
demonstration for FirstNet, but a second one--the first time I 
was out to see it was actually when the solar eclipse was 
occurring, and it actually went across my district, all the 
way. And so, I mean, they knew they were going to have some 
serious issues out there. And it worked.
    But, in your experience and when you are talking to people 
from around the country, what is your experience in how not 
only law enforcement but all first responders are finding 
FirstNet?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think it is a very positive response. 
And I have to tell you, one of the things that I hear is, to 
your point, when this was originally done, I don't think people 
thought it could get done, and I think that is what has 
changed.
    I think there are a lot of people that deserve credit. 
Certainly not me. I wasn't here for this. But if you go across 
the country, people are relying on FirstNet to make life-and-
death decisions, and they are impressed with the fact that this 
thing is getting done.
    Again, we are not saying perfection, but we are saying that 
this has been an overwhelming success. And it is going to 
continue to grow and build out. So I am extremely proud for the 
men and women that actually built this system.
    Mr. Latta. Good. Well, thank you.
    Mr. Agnew, if I could ask you a question here. You know, 
telehealth services are a crucial asset in our healthcare 
system. And with the spectrum that has been allocated by 
Congress, first responders using FirstNet connectivity can 
provide emergency telehealth services, which can be lifesaving. 
If there is an accident in a remote area that is far from a 
hospital, first responders can connect a patient to a doctor 
using FirstNet and provide critical care until the patient is 
delivered to that hospital.
    And before I ask the actual question, I will give you an 
example. I was at one of my hospitals in our region, and they 
had a stroke unit. And they were showing what the stroke unit 
could do. It was amazing. It was absolutely amazing.
    But I am always--having served on this committee for so 
long, I didn't want to bust anybody's bubble, but I did ask a 
question. I said, ``How far can you go out?'' And so they 
showed where that circumference was. But then it was pretty 
much like, if you were on the other side of it, they couldn't 
get to you.
    So that is that life-saving right there, is that we want to 
make sure it is expanded all the way out there so it can serve 
everyone and not, you know, in a particular area, what they 
were doing.
    So how important is it that FirstNet continues to expand 
connectivity across the country so all these types of programs 
can be utilized?
    Mr. Agnew. It is very important, Congressman. I mean, the 
mission is to ensure public safety receives the technology and 
they never get left behind like they were. They get 5G and 6G 
technology.
    But then it is about the coverage, building out in the 
rural, the underserved areas, the Tribal areas, even in some of 
the areas, as we mentioned, the sheriff mentioned, in-building 
and maybe some of the dense places. Public safety deserves the 
coverage. This program is going to allow it to happen.
    And to your point about extending e-health out--and so that 
is what FirstNet is going to do, is just continue to grow, 
based on public safety's feedback.
    Mr. Latta. Well, thank you.
    I will just close on this. Because, on 9/11, I was 
driving--I was in the General Assembly in Ohio at the time. 
And, of course, everything just collapsed. You know, you were 
trying to use your cell phone to find out what was going on, 
and, literally, in front of the statehouse in Columbus--it took 
almost an hour just to drive that one block, but--there was no 
communication. Everything was down--everything.
    And so, also, you know, for our first responders out there, 
you know, you are worried about that.
    But, finally, someone--you know, other members of the 
General Assembly were coming out and saying--if they saw you in 
your car, they yelled, ``You have to go home.''
    But that is how things collapsed on 9/11. We all saw it. 
But, you know, what we all really saw was what happened in--
especially in New York.
    And that is why, with FirstNet, we want to make sure that 
that never, ever occurs again. Because we want to make sure, 
for the people that FirstNet--or the first responders out there 
trying to protect, but also just protect those first 
responders, that they can always be in connection with one 
another.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Barragan for 5 
minutes to ask her questions.
    Ms. Barragan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today, for 
your testimony, and for the work that you do day in and day 
out.
    I think I have heard a repeating theme, some questions 
which I already had, about how to make sure that the network 
works, that it is available when there is a disaster, when 
there is an emergency; and many questions about what is being 
done to make sure there is coverage in places where there is 
not coverage now, and efforts being done by AT&T, of course, to 
harden the system. So I am going to focus my questions on a 
different area.
    Sheriff Adkinson, under the current law, the FirstNet 
Authority must reinvest any revenue generated into the FirstNet 
network, which AT&T owns and operates.
    The bill we are considering today would enable the FirstNet 
Authority to invest in new and emerging broadband technologies 
like satellite internet.
    If this bill becomes law, will the funding flow only 
through AT&T, or could the FirstNet Authority pay other 
providers, subcontractors, or technology vendors directly?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question, 
Representative.
    I think the Authority and the Board specifically says that 
we should always look at what is the best service for the 
American people and the delivery of that service, in whatever 
capacity that is. So, if that--as long as everything we do 
enhances the coverage and what we are doing, then it makes 
sense. If it doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
    In regard to using other folks, that is something 
contractually that would have to be worked out. But, yes, I 
think there should be the ability to take whatever is the best 
application or service, that that is what we should be looking 
at.
    Ms. Barragan. So you think that payments could be made 
directly to those others, not through AT&T?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I am going to have to defer on that 
question.
    Ms. Barragan. OK. Do you think that needs to be spelled out 
more in the legislation?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think so. I think so.
    Ms. Barragan. You think so. OK.
    I am also now going to follow up on this--I am looking at 
``Oversight of First Responder Network Authority,'' an OIG 
report. The inspector general has identified $1.13 billion that 
the FirstNet Authority could have used more efficiently, 
according to the report.
    Mr. Dame, can you explain if section 3 of this new bill 
will bring the FirstNet Authority more clearly under NTIA's 
authority?
    Rather, the bill, we know, under the section 3, more 
clearly brings the FirstNet Authority under NTIA's authority. 
Do you think that is going to help prevent further use of funds 
so that they are efficiently used?
    Mr. Dame. I do.
    And, as we have seen across many inspector general reports, 
there is this overarching theme of the need for greater 
performance accountability and contract oversight, and I 
believe that that is an area where NTIA can support.
    We never want to get in the middle of strategic decisions 
that first responders should be making on the Board and with 
the Public Safety Advisory Committee, but I believe, in terms 
of performance accountability, that is an area where NTIA and 
the Department of Commerce can support the Authority to a 
greater degree.
    Ms. Barragan. Great.
    And, Sheriff, I want to follow up on the same report. There 
is another result in this report that says that the OIG made 50 
recommendations. Twenty-four of the recommendations remain 
unimplemented.
    Who should be implementing those remaining 24, and what is 
the status?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question.
    As I said in my initial statement, that is our 
responsibility. The Board is entirely responsible for making 
sure that gets done, through their executive director and 
staff.
    And I will tell you, all those are in the process of being 
cleared or closed in close cooperation with the OIG. We have 
met with them, the executive director has met with them, and we 
are moving toward resolving them.
    But, more importantly, we have now established a 
relationship where there is a close line of communication, 
because I need to ensure this doesn't happen again. And that is 
really the short version of that.
    Ms. Barragan. Yeah.
    Well, I have to say and just reiterate what my colleagues 
have all reiterated, that this is so critically important for 
all our communities. And I think it sounds like, when we all 
spoke to our local elected officials in counties and cities, 
the pattern was: We want it to be reliable, we want there to be 
transparency, we need it to work. And so I think whatever we 
can do to make sure that that happens is something that 
Congress and us, as lawmakers, are focused on.
    So I will end with a very brief question. Does anybody on 
the panel think there is anything that is missing from the 
draft legislation that needs to be added?
    We will start with you, Mr. Agnew, since you are the one we 
haven't gotten to.
    Mr. Agnew. I don't think there is anything that needs to be 
added.
    Ms. Barragan. OK.
    Mr. Dame?
    Mr. Dame. No. NTIA supports the bill. Thank you.
    Ms. Barragan. Sheriff?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Just in--consistent with my previous 
statement, that there should be some direct oversight from the 
Board of the executive director so that we have some say in who 
that is and what their performance metrics would be.
    Ms. Barragan. Great. Thank you.
    Thank you all.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fry for 5 minutes to ask your 
questions.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    FirstNet was created to address a clear failure exposed on 
September 11th: Our first responders could not reliably 
communicate across systems when it mattered most. Congress 
responded, obviously. And, today, FirstNet is widely used by 
first responders across the country, including rural and 
coastal communities like those I represent in South Carolina.
    In fact, I think there has been a recent expansion of 
FirstNet in Marion County. The sheriff is thrilled, because his 
officers can now communicate when they need it the most.
    As we approach the sunset, though, Congress, I think, has a 
unique role and a responsibility to ensure continuity of 
service while also examining governance, oversight, and 
performance. Reauthorization should focus on reliability, 
interoperability, and accountability--a lot of "-abilities, if 
you will--so first responders can depend on that network 
without disruption.
    So I appreciate all of you being here today.
    Sheriff Adkinson, when first responders--in fact, in Marion 
County, South Carolina, Adkinsons are like Smiths, so you might 
have some family in the district.
    But when first responders identify coverage gaps or 
performance issues in the field, how does that information flow 
from local agencies to the Board and into investment decisions?
    Sheriff Adkinson. It flows in a couple of different ways.
    First and foremost, we have individuals who represent those 
specific areas to maintain contact with them, ``How is this 
going?'' Field reps, for putting it another way.
    We also have the Public Safety Advocacy Committee, who are 
from multiple disciplines and advise the Board where they see 
shortcomings.
    And, third--and I think this is critical--there is a direct 
relationship out from those organizations to the FirstNet 
Authority. In other words, they can pick up the phone and call 
us, as well. They are not afraid to do that. You might find 
that hard to believe, but the first responders are perfectly 
willing to pick up the phone and call.
    So I think the field reps are crucial to what we do. I 
think the PSAC is crucial to what we do. And from that, we try 
to make the best decisions on the most--again, where do you get 
the most impact, what is the most critical need, and try to 
stagger that.
    Mr. Fry. I appreciate that.
    And I think Congressman Griffith raised the issue about 
rural Virginia and that you have meetings in Virginia--you have 
had a meeting in Virginia, I think you testified to.
    But I was curious, just to kind of follow up on that, how 
often those meetings take place. Do they take place in 
different parts of the State? Are they ongoing meetings, where 
the situations evolve and maybe in a year or so you go back to 
that State to see if the terrain has changed? What does that 
look like?
    Just curious on how you, you know, listen actively on the 
ground to what the States are needing most.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. We actually just finished up the 
majority of our coverage workshop for the entire country, 
right? The field reps or the representatives are out all the 
time. They are assigned to specific States or areas.
    And, depending on the State, we don't--in other words, say, 
for instance, we have one in Florida and it is in one district. 
We may hold two there. We may hold three ultimately. It depends 
what is necessary.
    So there is kind of an ongoing path of reaching back and 
saying it is time to go back there, we have heard issues or 
concern there, the PSAC has reported there is an issue there, 
we have a fire chief who says there is an issue there. So we 
are trying to do that on an ongoing basis.
    But I will tell you, I think that is part of our ongoing 
strategic plan, too, is to set a pattern. Listen, if you say 
you are going to do something, you have to do it. And so, when 
you start saying you are coming back, that--we don't want to 
promise and underdeliver.
    Mr. Fry. So you are coming back?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. We will be back.
    Mr. Fry. All right.
    Sheriff Adkinson. I know the chair. He says it will happen.
    Mr. Fry. There you go.
    Mr. Agnew, outages, I think, are a big concern, just 
generally, and whether or not first responders can access this, 
use it.
    What changes have been made since the 2024 outage to reduce 
the risk of future disruptions and improve notifications for 
first responder usage?
    Mr. Agnew. Yeah. Thank you for that question.
    And just as a recap, in 2024 the FirstNet Core experienced 
a 2-hour outage, but AT&T prioritized, per the contract, the 
FirstNet program, and we got that network up and running and 
that core up and running within a couple hours.
    We have subsequently done a root-cause analysis, an after-
action report, and identified specifically what went wrong and 
what specific implementations need to occur. FirstNet put forth 
a task force. We were held accountable and basically delivered 
to ensure that situation wouldn't happen.
    So this is oversight in action. It is accountability in 
action happening. So we have now--and we funded the investments 
necessary to enhance the network.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you for that.
    I have other questions, but I think the chairman runs a 
tight ship. So with that, I will yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Appreciate that.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Menendez for 5 minutes to ask 
your questions.
    Mr. Menendez. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for being here.
    The horrific terrorist attacks on September 11 exposed 
critical weaknesses in our public safety communications when 
overloaded radio, landline, and mobile networks left police 
officers, firefighters, and paramedics unable to communicate 
effectively. First responders answered the call on 9/11 from 
across the river in New Jersey, including many from my 
district.
    The First Responder Network Authority was created out of 
the 9/11 Commission Report out of a recognition that we needed 
nationwide network for public safety communications to keep 
Americans safe during emergencies.
    Today's hearing is also critical to the communities I 
represent, because every year we experience a growing number of 
natural disasters, such as Superstorm Sandy and Hurricane Ida, 
which knocked out power for many local 9-1-1 centers and 
disrupted communications networks down the entire northeastern 
seaboard.
    Our district also includes a vast amount of critical 
infrastructure that has led Homeland Security experts to call 
the area between Newark Airport and the Port of Elizabeth the 
most dangerous 2 miles in America. This makes strengthening 
FirstNet security and resiliency essential for families in our 
district so that first responders know their communication 
tools will work when they need them most.
    I would like to ask each witness--just yes or no--would you 
agree that oversight of the resilience and security of the 
FirstNet network is especially vital for communities with 
increased exposure to natural disasters and substantial 
critical infrastructure assets?
    We will start with you, Sheriff.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely. And I would say, remember 
that the representative of Homeland Security as well as DOJ is 
on there, and as the third member, which is a technical 
expertise that is provided by several of the board members, one 
in particular, and this is the issue of cybersecurity. The 
ability to stay up against a cyber attack, that is absolutely 
key in my mind.
    Mr. Menendez. We will come back to cybersecurity, don't you 
worry.
    Mr. Dame. Yes.
    Mr. Agnew. Yes, and we are currently held accountable to 
3,600 requirements in the thousand reports to do exactly what 
you are saying, Congressman.
    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that.
    That is why I am pleased that we are moving forward with 
the bipartisan discussion draft to reauthorize FirstNet with 
increased oversight of the resiliency and security of the 
network.
    Mr. Agnew, in light of the numerous natural disasters that 
have impacted public safety communications in New Jersey, how 
is AT&T working to improve the resilience of FirstNet 
statewide?
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you for that question. And Superstorm 
Sandy is what created the Response Operation Group program. It 
started in New Jersey from that experience, and in fact New 
Jersey was one of the broadband technology opportunity programs 
that actually set one of the seven that basically built or 
formulated FirstNet, and it was New Jersey Net. Actually, New 
Jersey Net has been incorporated within the FirstNet program.
    But that Response Operation Group is dedicated individuals, 
former public safety officials. Over 190 assets, plus the 750 
assets AT&T brings to the table, coordinates with public 
safety, as what is going on with the FIFA event. ``Where are 
you going to be? Where do you need the equipment? Where are we 
staging?'' It is constant collaboration, training, and 
practicing so an event like Superstorm Sandy, the team is 
prepared. The team is prepared to stage and know exactly where 
to go.
    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that. I appreciate New Jersey 
leading the way with AT&T.
    Sheriff Adkinson, in your opinion, does the FirstNet 
reauthorization discussion draft provide for better 
dissemination of outage information so that public safety 
agencies have situational awareness of FirstNet's operational 
status?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes.
    Mr. Menendez. OK. And it is critical that FirstNet remains 
operational even in the toughest circumstances.
    Sheriff Adkinson, in your testimony you touched on the 
importance of cybersecurity enhancements to FirstNet network. 
In what ways would this discussion draft strengthen oversight 
over the cybersecurity of FirstNet?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I can't speak specifically to how that 
legislation will increase cybersecurity impact other than to 
say this: The board is specifically addressing that and making 
that part of key performance indexes to be rolled out. We 
haven't finished that yet because I think it still needs more 
work.
    Mr. Menendez. But you would say it is one of the sort of 
upmost important issues that you are working on on the board, 
given sort of what we are seeing with increased cyberattacks, 
especially from foreign adversaries?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Absolutely a priority.
    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate that.
    I want to go back, Mr. Agnew. You mentioned this, but how 
is AT&T investing in preparations for the upcoming FIFA World 
Cup finals in and around MetLife Stadium in New Jersey through 
collaboration with local law enforcement?
    Mr. Agnew. We are meeting with all 12 of the cities. Of 
course, MetLife Stadium, again, planning, coordinating, where 
first responders are, where we need to be, making incremental 
investments in in-building coverage. Public safety is--you 
know, what is unique about FIFA is, unlike a Jets or Giants 
game where you can park around----
    Mr. Menendez. People are actually going to be there.
    Mr. Agnew. That is a good point.
    Mr. Menendez. I am a Giants fan, so----
    Mr. Agnew. FIFA has different rules than NFL. And you can't 
park around the stadium, so we have to move all our assets, 
coordinate with public safety. That is going on. I feel very 
good about the performance of what you are about to see.
    Mr. Menendez. I appreciate it. I look forward to continuing 
to work with you as well as the entire committee on moving this 
forward.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Carter for 5 minutes to ask 
your questions.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Thank you, gentlemen, for being 
here. And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this meeting.
    And we all have established the fact that FirstNet was 
created so that our first responders would never again have to 
face the communications failures that we saw on 9/11, and I 
remain strongly supportive of reauthorizing this critical 
public safety network.
    I had the pleasure of visiting the AT&T facility, the 
disaster recovery facility in Covington, Georgia, and very 
impressed with the equipment there, very impressed with the 
infrastructure. It supports the infrastructure and operations 
that keep first responders connected across the State.
    Congress, as I understand it, entered into a 25-year 
partnership with AT&T to build and operate and maintain this 
nationwide network for public safety. And as AT&T continues to 
operate FirstNet and expand its infrastructure, I want to 
better understand the implications of having a single 
commercial provider owning and running the underlying network.
    Mr. Agnew, does AT&T own the network that is being built 
for FirstNet?
    Mr. Agnew. That is correct. Basically, the contract, just 
to understand it, it is a services-based contract that AT&T 
implements at the direction of the Authority, all the FirstNet-
specific elements that are required to deliver the service. And 
it is the FirstNet Authority, actually, holds license to this 
spectrum.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. So if the contract is not renewed 
when it ends, what will happen to the infrastructure that has 
been built?
    Mr. Agnew. The infrastructure remains with AT&T, but just 
to level set expectations, wireless networks upgrade--you are 
upgrading your entire network every 5 years. So it has a very 
limited lifespan on network equipment. AT&T spends about $145 
billion every 5 years upgrading a network.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK. Thank you for that.
    As I understand it, Sheriff Adkinson, FirstNet is governed 
by a 15-person board that includes permanent Federal members 
and 12 Commerce-appointed experts, and they have the 
responsibility of ensuring that the network stays focused on 
public safety needs.
    First of all, thank you for your service, Sheriff, and for 
your leadership on the FirstNet Board.
    What enforcement tools does the board actually have to 
ensure compliance with build-out and performance requirements 
under this agreement?
    Sheriff Adkinson. They can withhold payment. I mean, 
ultimately that is where this is at. If appropriate, you can 
set up indices, again, for measures for them to meet, but 
withholding of funds is the major----
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. Have you had to do that?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah, there have been delays.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. There have been delays?
    Sheriff Adkinson. There have been times that we have had to 
double-check and go back and do things, but all of those were 
rectified and met in a manner that was sufficient.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. So you are pretty satisfied?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I am satisfied.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK.
    Do you believe that Congress should enhance the board's 
oversight authority or transparency requirements as part of the 
reauthorization to better protect first responders?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. You do?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I do. I think the board should take more 
ownership and more responsibility in making sure this is done 
appropriately.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. But should Congress be the one to do 
that, to give you that enhanced oversight?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I believe so.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. OK. Fair enough.
    That is really all I have. Thank all of you all for being 
here. This is very important.
    And as I said, I had the opportunity to visit Covington, 
very impressed with the infrastructure. And, Ms. Ferguson, 
thank you for setting that up and helping us with that, because 
it is--when you see it, you are impressed. It is a big 
investment. There is no question about that. So thank you all.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair recognizes Representative McClellan for 5 minutes 
for your questions.
    Ms. McClellan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And I want to reiterate how excited I am to be working with 
Mr. Dunn of Florida on this very important legislation.
    Let me first ask--so in the bill, we turn what is the 
executive director into an Associate Administrator position who 
is a senior-service-level official appointed by the Assistant 
Secretary. Now, they are subject to performance reviews in 
consultation with the chair of the board and any committee 
members that deal with governance and risk.
    But, Sheriff Adkinson, several times you have raised 
reasonable concerns about the relationship between the board 
and what will now be this Associate Administrator.
    And, Mr. Dame, I would like to hear your thoughts on how 
the legislation can work to address that relationship to 
further improve FirstNet Authority's accountability.
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, and thank you for your leadership on 
this bill, Congresswoman.
    NTIA believes that moving the FirstNet Authority over to be 
a line office within NTIA will be important to improve 
performance accountability, but I want to be clear that the 
strategic decisions for public safety on their network is to 
come from the board, the Public Safety Advisory Committee.
    I think where NTIA and the Department can support to a much 
greater degree is to provide performance accountability as the 
Authority is implementing the decisions the board has provided 
and for performance accountability after the fact, after 
implementation.
    I understand Sheriff Adkinson's point, and I think 
ultimately a solution can be found as Congress considers this 
bill.
    Ms. McClellan. Thank you.
    And, Sheriff Adkinson, I mean, your concerns are heard loud 
and clear. That is why I didn't ask you, but I wanted to make 
sure that we gave Mr. Dame a chance to respond, and I think 
this is an area where we will definitely look.
    So, Mr. Agnew and Sheriff Adkinson, can you describe how 
AT&T has met its reinvestment obligations in the nationwide 
public safety broadband network and how the FirstNet Authority 
ensures those reinvestments align with public safety priorities 
rather than broader commercial objectives?
    Mr. Agnew. I think it is pretty straightforward from a 
reinvestment standpoint. The framework was established in 
February of 2024 of what FirstNet would invest in, a new core, 
new coverage, new technologies inclusive of satellite. It is 
now incumbent on the voice of public safety and the FirstNet 
Authority to determine what those investments are.
    AT&T is the contractor. We can share our expertise and the 
technology, but we don't dictate where coverage goes or the 
technology to implement it. We are just responsible for meeting 
the requirements of implementation.
    Ms. McClellan. OK. And, Sheriff Adkinson, did you want to 
add anything to that?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, ma'am. I mean, that is the short 
version of it. We are going to tell them where we believe these 
towers need to be, based on the input from public safety, and 
that is where the funds should be spent.
    Ms. McClellan. OK. Also for Sheriff and Mr. Dame, the IG 
reports have found that FirstNet's Authority has not followed 
standard Federal contracting and procurement procedures.
    Is there any reason why the Authority should not be subject 
to the same Federal acquisition standards as other Federal 
entities? And if so, what is that?
    Sheriff Adkinson. [Inaudible] structured in regard to the 
public-private partnership of it. The reality is any 
procurement we make should ultimately be transparent, 
accountable, and have something that can be reviewed. There is 
no way around that. Now, whether that meets that standard or 
there are a separate set of rules for a P3, I don't think 
anybody here should argue against that.
    Ms. McClellan. OK. Mr. Dame?
    Mr. Dame. And I would just add that the FirstNet Authority 
decided to use the Federal acquisition regulations, which I 
think was the right decision, and that the Department has 
provided delegations of authority to FirstNet officials to 
perform those procurement activities.
    Ms. McClellan. OK. I probably don't have enough time for 
the remaining, but thank you. This has been very helpful. As we 
said earlier, this is a discussion draft, not the final. And so 
I, for one, have found your testimony very helpful as we move 
forward.
    And I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair recognizes Representative Cammack for 5 minutes 
to ask your questions.
    Mrs. Cammack. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today.
    I am very proud to have one of our own from the great free 
State of Florida here testifying before our committee. So thank 
you, Sheriff. I would be remiss if I didn't say ``Go Gators.'' 
I know those are fighting words.
    But as everyone in this room knows, FirstNet was created 
after 9/11 to fix a deadly failure. First responders can't do 
their jobs if they can't communicate. Congress has responded by 
helping build a nationwide public safety network with priority 
and preemption when lives are on the line.
    By many measures, FirstNet has delivered. It serves tens of 
thousands of agencies, spans millions of square miles, and has 
proven its value during disasters, and that success is exactly 
why Congress must reauthorize it before its authority expires 
in 2027.
    But reauthorization shouldn't be on autopilot. Outages, 
coverage gaps, especially in rural areas, and inspector general 
findings show that performance must come with accountability 
and action. So this bill, this discussion draft, it strengthens 
oversight, improves outage reporting, clarifies responsibility, 
and ensures that FirstNet keeps evolving. When accountability 
is clear, public safety is stronger.
    So I am going to start with you, Sheriff. You have 
emphasized that FirstNet works best when investments are driven 
by real operational needs. You and I have discussed, for 
example, in my district that the overwhelming majority of my 
sheriffs are not on FirstNet. My husband, who is a first 
responder and a user of FirstNet, was unable to utilize his 
service during the last three major hurricanes.
    Now,I know that there have been challenges in deployment, 
but can you briefly detail how, through our conversations and 
conversations you have had with others, that we can make 
FirstNet work for all of our rural sheriffs in disaster-prone 
areas? Specifically, what reinvestment needs to happen?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question, 
Representative, and thank you for your work on this, because I 
know your personal interest and that it matters.
    And I will use your district specifically. You know, we 
went back and held a coverage workshop there in, I think, 
August of this last year, and said, you know, listening to our 
firefighters, our first responders, where can we increase the 
coverage? What needs to be done? I think something like 15 
sites have been added in the last year and a half in that 
district, but that doesn't mean it is going to be perfect. And 
it certainly doesn't mean the districts farther down south--so 
if I am in Lafayette County or Gilchrist County, which are 
extremely rural counties, they may need more than that one site 
or two sites. We are going to have to continue to do that.
    So I think it is incumbent upon us at the Authority to 
ensure that we keep these workshops going, we keep the field 
reps going, and we prioritize based on the immediacy of need 
and where we identify these problems.
    Mrs. Cammack. Well, and that is a great way to dovetail 
into the next question about interoperability. So there is some 
discussion within this language today that there needs to be a 
concerted effort towards interoperability for different 
services, particularly in disaster situations. Can you speak to 
that?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yeah. I think, clearly, you know, 
obviously, right now I could call you on--you know, I could use 
my FirstNet phone and call you on a Verizon or T-Mobile. So you 
have that level of interoperability. Also, they have developed 
the ability to talk over land mobile radio as well too, the 
push to talk if you do that.
    I think some of the new product that is coming forth, the 
technology is clearly working toward that. That is the final 
singularity of goal, is that we have one ring to rule them all. 
And from a standpoint of a unified command--you knew I would 
work in ``Lord of the Rings'' here at some point--there has to 
be a unified command. There shouldn't be any question about 
this work and the ability to work during that.
    Mrs. Cammack. Excellent. Thank you.
    I am going to shift to you. Is it ``Dom`'' or ``Dame''?
    Mr. Dame. ``Dame.''
    Mrs. Cammack. ``Dame.''
    Mr. Dame. Yeah.
    Mrs. Cammack. Like hot dame. OK. Just kidding. It is a 
joke.
    Mr. Dame. Notre Dame.
    Mrs. Cammack. OK. All right. We are going to talk about 
that later.
    So you have talked about today quite a bit about the 
blurred lines of authority. Under the current structure, who is 
currently responsible for enforcing contract performance, and 
why hasn't that always worked in practice--that is the first 
part--but then, how would making--this is the critical part--
how would making FirstNet a clear line office within NTIA 
improve the day-to-day oversight and accountability?
    Mr. Dame. And thank you, Congresswoman, for your leadership 
on public safety communications.
    It is the murkiness and the ambiguity of the independent 
authority within NTIA that has caused the issue, and there are 
dedicated, mission-driven staff at the FirstNet Authority who 
are working on these issues, who care very much about making 
sure the first responders have the network they need.
    But we think that with the proposed changes and the draft 
discussion text, that having the FirstNet Authority move over 
as a line office of NTIA, there would be greater enhancements.
    Mrs. Cammack. Well, and because my time is running short, I 
just want to highlight H.R. 1519, the Public Safety 
Communications Act, which would formally establish the Office 
of Public Safety within NTIA. It would cut the red tape, create 
a single point of oversight for FirstNet.
    Do you agree that that would be helpful in establishing 
greater ability to be flexible for FirstNet but oversight at 
the same time?
    Mr. Dame. I do. I think there need to be some 
reconciliations between the two bills, but, yes, ma'am.
    Mrs. Cammack. And, Sheriff, would you agree?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I believe there would be delineated lines 
of authority so there is no question about the ambiguity of who 
is doing what.
    Mrs. Cammack. Excellent. I appreciate you all's feedback 
today.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    And keeping it in Florida, I will recognize Representative 
Castor for 5 minutes to ask her questions.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member 
Matsui. Yes, we are rich in Floridians on the committee.
    And thank you to our witnesses. You have had some very 
constructive recommendations for us.
    I think there is a lot of interest from Floridians because 
we are so susceptible to disasters. You talked about Hurricane 
Michael up in your neck of the woods, but really in the Tampa 
Bay area, we are still reeling from hurricanes Helene and 
Milton in the fall of 2024, the devastating one-two punch where 
folks lost powers for weeks. Three million Floridians lost 
power after that, and it was long and sustained. I know Rep. 
Cammack knows this all too well.
    Damage to critical infrastructure. There is no--people 
don't anticipate that they are going to lose internet and cell 
service, but they do, and it is just the worst-case scenario to 
think that our first responders, when towers go down, 
communication networks go down, that that won't hamper rescue 
and recovery.
    So I, after the storms, checked in on the operation of 
FirstNet with Pinellas County Emergency Management. They said 
AT&T has done well building out towers and infrastructure in 
Florida with hurricanes in mind, but the portable sites, 
especially the compact rapid deployables, were particularly 
helpful to provide reliable service.
    The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said that FirstNet 
has been very successful for the county, connecting up all 
phones, cameras, patrol cars, laptops. They said that the 
service has disaster-grade reliability and that there have been 
little to no issues with the product or provider.
    But both emphasized to me that if the Congress is going to 
act, that they were concerned that there would be more 
bureaucratic red tape. They both highlighted that if we are 
going to make changes, to ensure that there are no obstacles 
created to action.
    Is there anything you see in the draft legislation or in 
responding to the OIG's report that would create unnecessary 
barriers or obstacles?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Thank you for that question. I am 
assuming you are pointing at me, so I want to make sure that I 
am answering appropriately.
    Ms. Castor. Yes, sir.
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think when you look at that 
specifically, those OIGs largely deal with individuals not 
following directions or doing what they are told or being held 
accountable. And I sound like a broken record on this issue, 
but I think it is fundamentally the crux of the issue.
    You can switch responsibility to multiple different people, 
but if you are not going to hold them accountable, I am not 
sure what we are going to accomplish. So we have got to do 
that.
    Again, that individuals--those individual positions, they 
currently are hired, selected, supervised by NTIA today, full 
stop. And so I just think we just need to be clear so that we 
can say this is how it needs to be handled and to do it as 
effectively as possible.
    Ms. Castor. And you are going to keep an eye to make sure 
that our local emergency managers and first responders, and as 
we develop this modernization for FirstNet reauthorization, 
that there are no barriers to them being able--
    Sheriff Adkinson. Yes, ma'am. And, quite frankly, I worry 
all the time about these kind of things, whether or not the 
system is going down, is it working like it needs to. This is 
what keeps me up at night.
    Ms. Castor. OK. Mr. Agnew, Florida now is expanding the 
number of deployables--the compact rapid deployables and more 
towers, but I hear Rep. Cammack say there are parts of our 
State that are still struggling.
    What is the latest?
    Mr. Agnew. There is still more to be done. As you 
mentioned, the State of Florida invested in 60 of those compact 
rapid deployables. So we have actually developed technology 
where first responders can own their own mobile towers, and so 
that is how it is happening, so they can self-sustain. There is 
more coverage coming.
    There were 15 sites built. There are three more sites being 
built in your district in the Tampa area. I believe there are 
four more coming, Representative Cammack, in your area. There 
is a lot more work to be done. That is why we need this network 
to continue, because that investment is going to deliver 
exactly what you are asking for: more coverage and more 
deployables for resiliency in hurricanes and other disasters.
    Ms. Castor. So one of the challenges--and I don't know if 
this impacts directly on the compact rapid deployables--is just 
the widespread loss of power afterwards.
    Is AT&T developing the battery backups to go with systems?
    I mean, there were so many--they kind of go hand in hand. 
Many hospitals and wastewater infrastructure for local 
communities, when they lost power for the long term, they 
couldn't operate.
    Is there the same challenge for communications networks?
    Mr. Agnew. Absolutely. Power in hurricanes and in high 
winds--power becomes an issue, continuing to harden the network 
and invest in----
    Ms. Castor. But do you have partnerships on battery----
    Mr. Agnew. Yes.
    Ms. Castor [continuing]. Kind of the new wave of batteries?
    Mr. Agnew. Yes, we do.
    Ms. Castor. OK. Could you provide a little more information 
on that?
    Mr. Agnew. Sure.
    Ms. Castor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Goldman for 5 minutes for your 
questions.
    Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much 
for this hearing, and thank you to the panelists for being here 
today.
    Sheriff, thank you very much for your service. Thank you 
for your frankness and directness and your testimony today.
    Can you just take us through anecdotally what it was like 
before FirstNet was created, any stories you may have, and then 
the improvements of FirstNet and where we are today?
    Sheriff Adkinson. You know, we talk about--I mean, 
obviously, 9/11 is the impetus of this, correct, but I can tell 
you I have been through--it was Hurricane Katrina when there 
was no ability to talk or where there was so much volume. The 
Marjory Stoneman Douglas murders that took place in South 
Florida. You have everybody trying to call at one time, 
everybody trying to use that.
    What happens now with priority and preemption is that those 
first responders now have access to this network. The Super 
Bowl, you know, is a great example of that where you have a lot 
of folks there. You had the shooting in New Orleans around that 
same timeframe.
    If you look at the number of times that that system was 
bounced off--and AT&T can provide that. We have seen those 
numbers--we can see who is actually hitting this system and 
when they are doing it. But the fact it is not an overlay that 
is built for them, assuring that we are going to be able to get 
out is critical, absolutely critical.
    Because while we talk about natural disaster, which is a 
huge thing we worry about, don't forget when you are talking 
about the inauguration of the President of the United States, 
when you are talking about a Super Bowl and some incident 
happens. There might not be a natural disaster, but there is 
certainly such a surge in usage right then. This ensures that 
our first responders can get out when nobody else can.
    Mr. Goldman. Thank you.
    Mr. Agnew, I know you spoke about this a little bit earlier 
with Mr. Pfluger, my colleague from Texas, but I want to go 
back to the central Texas flooding. Can you talk about--and 
again, I apologize if you already did that. I was out of the 
room for a bit.
    But can you talk about--some hurricanes you can plan for. 
You know they are coming, and you can be prepared. No one knew 
the flooding was going to happen to the level it did in central 
Texas.
    Can you talk about how you all responded to that and how 
you prepare for something like that or then plan for the 
future?
    Mr. Agnew. Thank you for that question, Congressman. It is 
a great question, because you have unplanned events--you have 
planned events, like a hurricane, where you can plan a couple 
days, and then unplanned events, which just becomes emergent, 
and that is exactly what happened with the Texas Hill Country 
flooding.
    You and your staffer have been to our network disaster 
recovery warehouse. You see the arsenal, but there is 
intelligence around that where we stage them across the 
country. We have an AT&T weather operation center that 
nationally monitors so we know when impacts are occurring so we 
can respond.
    And that is exactly what we did. We responded in force. We 
sent the cavalry to the whole country. I had folks on my team 
on the ground with first responders directing search and rescue 
efforts, ensuring that public safety got the communication they 
needed.
    There was also a cell tower, a full-blown cell tower built 
in 48 hours. It is magic when public safety and 
telecommunications gets together what can happen, because there 
is no more red tape. It is just execution, and that is what the 
Response Operation Group does with public safety.
    We recently recognized at an event with our CEO the 
employees that actually went down and supported, and they were 
tired. They were with public safety multiple days. We had to 
swap some out because of just the emotional demand, of course, 
of what was going on and what individuals were seeing.
    But we learned from those events. We get feedback from 
those events. One of the things that we learned from the Texas 
Hill Country is the smaller mobile deployables are so important 
because it is hard to get in some of those areas. You can't 
have a huge truck. So we are actually increasing the amount of 
assets we have of smaller deployables.
    Mr. Goldman. That was going to be my followup question, 
what you learned, so you already answered it.
    So with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Thank you all very much for being here.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    I now recognize Representative Carter for 5 minutes for 
your questions.
    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you, Ranking Member, for holding this important hearing. Thank 
you all for being here.
    As you know, I represent Louisiana's Second Congressional 
District, New Orleans. Being the hub of entertainment, 
festivals, sporting events, and concerts, the walkability of 
our city, the nature of millions of people literally coming in 
every year for conventions and sporting events and Mardi Gras, 
which we are celebrating as we speak, the importance of 
recognizing Mother Nature, who always plays a big role in our 
community, of hurricane, floods, considering security of mass 
gathering events, that is why public safety technologies and 
communications systems like FirstNet are so critical to 
protecting the lives and ensuring effective emergency responses 
to districts like mine. And I strongly, strongly support 
reauthorizing of this program.
    Just a few questions.
    Mr. Agnew, for those who may not know, can you share with 
us why the priority and preemption are critical to protecting 
public safety during network congestions at large crowd events 
like Mardi Gras, festivals, sporting events, and concerts?
    Mr. Agnew. Public safety has to get through. They have to 
communicate. If they can't do that, there could be lives at 
risk. They could not be responding to the incident that they 
need, and that is why we built a dedicated core. It is no 
users--consumer users are on that core.
    That is why public safety on Band 14 and all of AT&T's 
other couple hundred megahertz of spectrum, they get priority 
so they can communicate. And that is why we have the largest 
network for public safety built by public safety.
    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. What are some of the things that 
AT&T has learned since you have been doing this, and what can 
we do to make it better? What have you learned that made it 
good? What are the things that you think it hasn't done?
    Mr. Agnew. I think that is a great question. As far as what 
we have learned, I mentioned to Congressman Goldman, building 
smaller deployables, building form factors for in-building 
solutions, building the location capabilities to show where 
somebody is in the building. We learned that feedback from 
public safety is so important, because when we take that 
feedback and deploy a product, it makes it better.
    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. Great.
    Sheriff, first of all, thank you. I have appreciated your 
commentary and the ease with which you have demonstrated your 
adroitness in this subject matter.
    As a first responder, can you talk about how FirstNet works 
in a city like New Orleans in response to emergencies, natural 
disasters strike our communities, and equally as important, 
share with me, are we big enough?
    We know that natural disasters come faster. They stay 
longer. They come in places that historically have not--
mudslides and tornados and all of the natural disasters that we 
see coming.
    Are we big enough? And what do we have to do to maintain 
the level of clear channel, as Mr. Agnew mentioned, going 
forward?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I will speak to New Orleans specifically. 
You know, the shooting, the incident with the vehicle about a 
year and a half ago, that is a great example where, as first 
responders, the usage there was really significant for a burst. 
The short period of time as everybody is trying to coordinate 
what is going on, the ability for that not to be bogged down in 
commercial traffic is absolutely crucial.
    And then the reality of what you just said about natural 
disasters. There are some things--and I am not going to lie to 
you, there are some things that we just sometimes miss or are 
unprepared for. Maui, the Maui fires, you know, a volcano. That 
was unprecedented. Should we have had more accesses ready to 
the outlining island? Yes, full stop. And we are going to have 
to continue to try and work and do these--
    Mr. Carter of Louisiana. But the very nature of natural 
disasters is they don't give you warning, right? So as hard as 
you guys work and as much as we appreciate it, natural 
disasters don't give a warning, but we can contemplate that 
this is going to be around for a long time.
    What can we do now in advance of the storm to strengthen 
our systems?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think what we are doing, what we can 
do, and what we should do is we should continue expanding that. 
This is fundamentally the heart of what I think government is 
about. I mean, this is providing for the public safety, both of 
the citizens and the people--you know, the people that are 
providing the service. This is literally a central function of 
government, in my eyes.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. And with 31 seconds left, each of 
you, real quickly, rapid fire: Sitting before us, tell us what 
can we do as Members of Congress to assist you with the 
incredible work that you have to do with this reauthorization 
and beyond.
    Sheriff Adkinson. Reauthorization, first and foremost.
    Mr. Dame. Reauthorization.
    Mr. Agnew. Reauthorization.
    Mr. Carter of Georgia. You made it too easy.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair recognizes Representative Fedorchak for 5 minutes 
for her questions.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Representative Goldman and I were just talking about how 
much we appreciate the effort you all put in to being here. We 
were noticing the sheriff's really sharp uniform. Maybe it is 
brand new. But we know you have taken a lot of your precious 
time and resources to get here and share your expertise, so I 
want to share my appreciation for that.
    I am from the State of North Dakota. I am the only 
Representative there, so I represent the whole State. It is a 
big, rural State, and I would say--let's say we have a lot of 
weather challenges. We have blizzards. We have fires, grassland 
fires. We have tornados, floods, you name it. It is tough for 
our first responders because they have to cover a big, huge 
area with few resources.
    So the communications technology is really, really vital. 
So thank you for the work you are putting in to ensure that 
those communication networks are as vibrant as possible.
    I have a few questions for both the sheriff and Mr. Agnew. 
We will start with you, Sheriff. You emphasized that FirstNet 
is built by and for public safety and point to the Public 
Safety Advisory Committee as a key safeguard.
    Can you help me understand, in practice, how does the board 
independently validate the public safety needs, and how is 
information from the network contractor a part of that, or how 
do you find information separate from what they are providing 
to you?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Sure. It is a little bit of a bifurcated 
system in that regard. So you have the Public Safety Advocacy 
Committee, right, which is made up of experts all across the 
public safety field that meet and represent their individual 
disciplines. The Authority board and the Authority members meet 
with that Public Safety Advocacy Committee. In fact, it was 
supposed to be in Dallas this last week, but weather 
notwithstanding caused some problems there. This is something 
we do routinely, to meet with them to get this insight and 
input.
    Additionally, there are field reps from the FirstNet 
Authority who reach out based on discipline--maybe it is fire, 
maybe it is EMS, maybe it is law enforcement--to meet with 
local agencies and entities to understand are we meeting your 
objectives.
    That is separate from the other part, which is the indices 
that we get from AT&T. Are you performing? How much outage do 
you have, where it is at? And as I said earlier, we are 
developing what we consider, the board, key index performance 
measures that are additional that we are trying to say, ``We 
need some more information here. We want some more 
information.''
    Nobody has pushed back on that, but we are working through 
a very thoughtful process of things that we think is important 
for the public to know. So it is kind of bifurcated.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it. And as the advisory, do you have 
authority to make your advice--to have them act on it?
    Sheriff Adkinson. The board has the authority to act on the 
recommendations of the Public Safety Advocacy Committee, yes, 
ma'am.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. OK. Very good.
    Then second, you stressed that reinvestment must remain 
disciplined and aligned with mission needs.
    How do you ensure that the reinvestment dollars are serving 
the first responders' operational needs and not subsidize the 
improvements to the underlying commercial network?
    Sheriff Adkinson. Well, I think that is at the fundamental 
heart of it, right? We are asking where these dollars should be 
spent and whether or not they are a good return on investment. 
Now, that is fundamentally the responsibility of the board, 
quite frankly, and if we find out that it is not doing that, 
then we should take appropriate actions. And if you find out 
the board isn't doing that, you should remove board members.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it.
    Mr. Agnew, do you want to speak to that a little bit?
    Mr. Agnew. Yes. We provide--and thank you for the question. 
We provide the Authority full transparency on our build plans, 
where the commercial network is going. So the Authority does 
not have to build there. Where the Authority builds is based 
off of those feedback from the workshops, based off of the 
feedback from public safety in those areas that weren't 
identified.
    So it brings this powerful public-private partnership 
together. We have got this area covered; AT&T is going to do 
these areas; FirstNet, you cover these incremental areas. And 
that is how we have 200,000 more square miles covered, because 
of that partnership.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. Got it. All right. And one more followup 
question. I have a few seconds. You highlight, Mr. Agnew, that 
public safety agencies may choose among FirstNet, Verizon 
Frontline, or T-Mobile's T-Priority offerings.
    Given that reality, what is the rationale for reinvestment 
funding being tied to an infrastructure that only works for 
users on one network?
    Mr. Agnew. Right. It is important that single network, that 
it is secure, that it is interoperable, and it is held 
accountable for first responders. And that reinvestment dollars 
is going to go into the rural coverage. So we don't recommend 
diverting any of those funds that would take away from rural 
sites.
    For example, 60 new sites were built in your area. You have 
got more coming based off of the response. We don't want to see 
that impacted. North Dakota needs the coverage.
    Mrs. Fedorchak. Very good.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair recognizes Mr. Landsman for 5 minutes for your 
questions.
    Mr. Landsman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, all 
of you for being here, everything that you have done.
    And I want to start with you, Mr. Agnew. The work that you 
all have done to expand coverage, particularly as it relates to 
these dead zones, the investments that you have made, that 
won't result in any additional cost to first responders, 
correct?
    Mr. Agnew. That is correct.
    Mr. Landsman. OK. Thank you.
    And this is a question for all of you. Part of, obviously, 
what happens here is that when there is an emergency, civilians 
get kicked off of Band 14. There is a 20 megahertz threshold on 
Band 14 for you all and first responders.
    Is that enough? Is there any concern that as we go to 
reauthorize, that that number needs to be reevaluated?
    I will start with you, Sheriff.
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think the main thing is that we 
contemplate what is the actual spectrum used as we increase. 
Again, through this Internet of Things, data was not 
something--video data, for instance, was not something that we 
considered a number of years ago. We haven't tapped this 
spectrum out, but the reality is whatever is necessary to 
maintain the mission critical, that is what it needs to be.
    I just don't know that I have a projection on what that is 
going to look like 5 to 10 years----
    Mr. Landsman. I just think as you guys--as we work through 
the reauthorization, to make sure that the language is such 
that allows you to do that testing, because as I understand it 
the language would limit you to 20 megahertz. And you are 
right, things have changed in 20 years and you may use more.
    Have you ever come close to using 20 megahertz?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I would have to defer. I have not seen 
that since I have been onboard.
    Mr. Agnew. As far as that question is concerned, so AT&T, 
as part of the contract and the commitment to the FirstNet 
Authority, Band 14 is utilized, but also all band priority is 
provided on the hundreds of megahertz of spectrum for first 
responders. So to say it has come close, there is more than 
enough spectrum as it stands.
    However, needs evolve, right? Sheriff mentioned video and 
other technologies that are going to require looking to the 
future from a spectrum standpoint, and we can see that 
occurring now.
    Mr. Landsman. Do we need to adjust the language in the 
statute?
    Mr. Agnew. I will have to take that back.
    Mr. Landsman. Yeah, great. It wasn't a leading question. I 
just was curious.
    Mr. Dame. If I could add, Congressman. I think under 
section 6 of the draft bill, it does address that particular 
problem by expanding the definition of the network beyond just 
the core and the RAM and includes spectrum bands, and it 
reflects reality. As Mr. Agnew mentioned----
    Mr. Landsman. Oh, I didn't put two and two--yeah, I do 
remember that, but I didn't put that together.
    Mr. Dame. Right. And I think that particularly as 5G is 
predominant and we move into 6G, FirstNet Authority is going to 
need access to other bands that AT&T has available.
    Mr. Landsman. So you feel like that covers you?
    Mr. Dame. I think having the authority to get access to 
those AT&T bands is important----
    Mr. Landsman. Yeah, that makes sense.
    Mr. Dame [continuing]. And I think this definition does 
that, sir.
    Mr. Landsman. Last question. Sheriff, 2042, contract is up. 
We have made a $15 billion investment as taxpayers. What do we 
own?
    Sheriff Adkinson. The infrastructure itself, as previously 
stated, belongs with AT&T. What we own is essentially a 
currency of trust, which says we have built a network that is 
what law enforcement officers trust or public safety, first 
responders trust. We don't own an infrastructure past that. We 
own a concept. We own, again, a situation where this has become 
the name, if you will.
    I actually am afraid of a day that we look at not having 
one provider, because I think there is a risk. I am going to be 
honest with you. From my standpoint, I know that we--our job is 
to hold AT&T responsible, right? What I never want to happen--
what I never, never want to happen is multiple companies going, 
``No, no, it is their fault that this didn't work. They didn't 
meet the standard.''
    Mr. Landsman. Yeah. No, I agree with that piece. I think, 
on behalf of taxpayers, owning more than just the concept and 
trust is something that should be discussed, and I suspect AT&T 
would be, you know, eager to have that conversation just 
because--well, I ran out of time. Sorry. I didn't mean to put 
you on the spot, but I think it is important as we work to 
reauthorize.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thanks.
    I will allow Mr. Agnew to respond if you want to.
    Mr. Agnew. No, we can get back. We can get back.
    Mr. Hudson. OK. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Representative Houchin for 5 
minutes for her questions.
    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you, Chairman Hudson, Ranking Member 
Matsui, and the witnesses for your testimony.
    FirstNet exists because on September 11, first responders 
ran toward danger with communications that were fragmented, 
incompatible, and overwhelmed. Congress created FirstNet to 
make sure that never happens again. And since then, FirstNet 
has come a long way with the nationwide build-out adoptions 
broad, including in my State in Indiana, and the network is 
evolving and working on more modernization efforts.
    But today's hearing isn't about just patting ourselves on 
the back for the good work that we have done to get this far. 
It is about ensuring that public safety communications are not 
just proven on their best days but their worst days and that 
governance and accountability behind the system have to be 
equally reliable.
    Over the summer, I met with first responders in Ripley 
County, Indiana, who spoke directly about why FirstNet matters. 
When communications are reliable and interoperable, they can 
share information faster, coordinate resources more 
effectively, and keep both first responders and the public 
safer.
    The Ripley County Sheriff's Department has since sent a 
letter of support, supporting FirstNet reauthorizations and 
emphasizing that FirstNet has been a vital and reliable partner 
that improves officer safety and operational effectiveness 
during emergencies.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to request unanimous consent to 
submit that letter for the record.
    Mr. Hudson. Without objection, so ruled.
    [The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
    Mrs. Houchin. I want to applaud Representatives Dunn and 
McClellan for this reauthorization effort as we work to 
strengthen the governance, increase public safety, and maybe 
hope to futureproof our emergency communications technology.
    There have been, I think, some concerns over the future of 
FirstNet that I just wanted to particularly ask Mr. Agnew. As 
we are working toward this interoperability, FirstNet has done 
a great job of this rollout, making sure it is deployed and it 
is also widely accepted.
    Do you feel--where do you feel we are going in terms of the 
next reauthorization? What would put that interoperability at 
most risk?
    Mr. Agnew. So today, to clarify, the network is 
interoperable between other commercial providers. So that has 
been established. Where the network is and where it needs to go 
is to solve that land mobile radio/walkie-talkie integration, 
the legacy public safety networks that were so challenged 
during 9/11, which are still in use.
    So we have technology. We have certified, validated, 
affordable technology in place today. That has got to be taken 
to the future. It is time for the next generation, highly 
affordable, highly scalable. It should not be hours, it should 
not be days for public safety to interoperate when Bloomington 
is supporting Indianapolis. It should just happen within 
seconds.
    So that is the technology that we are deploying. We are 
held accountable for that. We signed a commitment to do it. So 
you have got this powerful public-private partnership of this 
willing technology company that has the skill set and the 
authority and oversight of the Government to ensure this 
happens, and that is what we signed up for.
    We can't fail. We have to do it, and we are going to keep 
working until we get it right.
    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you.
    Sheriff Adkinson, the same kind of question to you: What do 
you see are the challenges that we should be paying attention 
to in terms of interoperability, making sure that everybody can 
communicate with one another moving forward in the next 
generation of FirstNet?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think the rate at which things are 
changing, the advancements in--what the expectations of the 
public is in regard to things like video, in regards to all the 
different devices that are required, we need to make sure that 
we set standards of what is acceptable and what is the 
performance measures that we are trying to get.
    You know, we are talking about G. A G is about every 10 
years, I think, before they replace them. So we are talking 5, 
but really we are starting to think 6, right? And what I don't 
want to do is for public safety to fall to the lowest common 
denominator. And so I want us to be constantly striving toward 
what is the best level of service that we can get provided.
    Mrs. Houchin. Thank you.
    As I conclude here, I just want to note that FirstNet has 
made real progress. The trust in the network does depend on how 
things perform under stress, how it is governed when problems 
arise. So with the sunset approaching, I look forward to 
continuing to work together for ensuring that this network is 
resilient and ready for the next generation.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Joyce for 5 minutes for your 
questions.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chairman Hudson and Ranking Member 
Matsui, for allowing me to enjoin this important hearing.
    From the Gettysburg battlefields in Adams County to close 
to the Flight 93 Memorial in Somerset County, I am honored to 
represent a district that includes expansive rural territories. 
Unfortunately, geographic barriers create challenges for law 
enforcement and first responders. We saw that during 9/11.
    FirstNet's important work to improve public safety across 
the entire United States gives law enforcement and first 
responders a necessary tool to operate seamlessly during these 
times of crisis, and it is essential that the FirstNet network 
is built out in a way that prioritizes rural areas that are 
underserved and so often overlooked.
    More than 2,100 agencies in Pennsylvania representing 
thousands of FirstNet connections--this is a district that I 
represent, and a new cell tower was unveiled by FirstNet and 
AT&T in Huntington County in 2022. I was proud to be there for 
that event. This marked an important development in expanding 
access to rural broadband infrastructure.
    However, over the years it has become difficult and 
increasingly clear that FirstNet's ability to share the 
tracking of FirstNet's build-out and the progress has been not 
very transparent to many of those of us who are concerned about 
that. And as we know, the contract between AT&T and the Federal 
Government that determines the milestones for rural build-out 
is a private one. The build-out date itself is also private.
    Congress must exercise oversight of FirstNet to ensure that 
complete and timely build-out is taking place, especially in 
rural areas that need coverage desperately.
    Mr. Agnew, can you describe the rural build-out milestones 
that FirstNet adheres to?
    Mr. Agnew. We are required to build out a 15 percent 
increase in rural build-out. We built out--we partnered with 
dozens of rural providers and built over 2,000 sites. We 
continue to partner with those rural providers to continue to 
expand.
    Just to kind of take you through a journey. When the 
network was launched in 2017, the network coverage was 2.5 
million square miles. As in my testimony, I said it is nearly 3 
million square miles. That is a half million square miles, two 
sizes of Texas. Majority of that deployment has been in the 
rural areas.
    Now, there is still more to go, and with the investment----
    Mr. Joyce. How can we track where that build-out in rural 
areas has----
    Mr. Agnew. Great question. That is a great question. So 
during the coverage workshops, it exposes where the network has 
gone and where the network is going. We also worked 
individually with each agency to expose that and see exactly 
where the build plan is, as well as they have their network 
status tool that they can look realtime at any moment to see 
where their network is going.
    Mr. Joyce. Mr. Dame, earlier in this hearing it was stated 
that NTIA has made the FirstNet contract available to this 
subcommittee. The contract has, unfortunately, been difficult 
to retrieve.
    Can you commit to sending the FirstNet contract to this 
subcommittee by the end of next week, Friday, February 13?
    Mr. Dame. Yes.
    Mr. Joyce. Thank you.
    It is essential that Congress reauthorizes FirstNet's 
authority prior to its expiration. The future of public safety 
depends on it. The rural communities that I represent depend on 
it.
    As we evaluate how to move forward, we must do so with 
transparency. We must do so with accountability and oversight 
at the forefront. We must be able to see the data to make sure 
that our rural communities are being prioritized in FirstNet's 
build-out and that the real milestones in the contract are both 
adequate and being adhered to.
    Again, I thank you, Chairman Hudson, for allowing me to 
participate in this hearing, and I yield the remainder of my 
time.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    And the Chair now recognizes Mr. Kean for 5 minutes for 
your questions.
    Mr. Kean. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today. And thanks as well to those who 
are here in uniform for your extraordinary public service.
    This hearing is an important opportunity to examine the 
FirstNet framework and build on a successful industry standard 
model to ensure dynamic, reliable, and forward-looking public 
safety communications over the course of the next decade.
    I agree with many of the statements that have already been 
made about the importance of clarity, precision, and robust 
oversight in FirstNet. Nothing less will suffice for our first 
responders and the challenges that they face daily.
    I am committed to continue to work to ensure that first 
responders have a seat at the table by ensuring access to 
cutting-edge preempted communication, by reauthorizing 
FirstNet, or by ensuring that their existing systems remain 
accessible, interoperable, and reliable for as long as they are 
needed.
    Reauthorizing FirstNet is an important step in continuing 
to fully implement lessons learned from the past so the 
tragedies of 9/11 that impacted so many families in New Jersey, 
impacted so many families across this country, will never, ever 
happen again.
    Sheriff Adkinson, what do you think is the right metric for 
determining whether FirstNet is fulfilling its statutory 
mandate, and, if needed, how can Congress improve 
accountability to fulfilling this mandate in a reauthorization?
    Sheriff Adkinson. I think my take on this is there needs to 
be these indices that show a continued level of build-out and 
coverage enhancement each year. I think that should be provided 
in a manner that is readily available to Congress in a manner 
that you can see what has been built, where they are at, and I 
think it should be provided by the Authority on that basis.
    Those are things that we have. Those are things that we can 
do. I think we need to set what are realistic expectations 
about when and how rural build-out should happen so that you 
know in advance. I think that is part of the problem, from my 
standpoint, is you have heard various Members today say, ``Hey, 
my constituents, my district, where are we at?''
    I don't always know 2 and 3 years in the future, but we 
certainly have some idea what is coming next. Let's be open 
about that. Let's be realistic about that and set expectations 
that the public can understand. Let's be transparent about it.
    Mr. Kean. Mr. Agnew, how well would you say that FirstNet 
has done in making sure decisions are driven by first 
responders themselves, and is there room for improvement?
    Mr. Agnew. There is always room for improvement. It is 
public safety's network. It has to continue to improve over the 
next 18, 17 years. It has to improve in coverage. It has to 
improve the amount of deployables. It has to improve the 
response times. It has to improve the technology.
    That is not to say it hasn't been successful. It just has 
to keep getting better for public safety. It has to operate 
like public safety. Every event they go to, they get better. 
This network will get better.
    Mr. Kean. Thank you.
    Mr. Dame, I will pose a similar question to you as I did to 
the sheriff: What lessons have we learned since FirstNet's 
inception, and what can we best use to improve organization, 
accountability so that FirstNet is providing the best service 
possible?
    Mr. Dame. Thank you, Congressman. I think, at a minimum, 
Congress needs to seriously reauthorize FirstNet. As we have 
all learned, the market did not serve public safety responders 
before FirstNet. There is now a very competitive market. 
Reauthorization would resolve that.
    I think in terms of the metrics that you asked the sheriff 
for the network, I think the availability of the network and 
the performance of the network are two areas that really should 
be monitored closely.
    Mr. Kean. And as a followup, how can we best integrate the 
newest communications technology into the FirstNet program, and 
what are some examples of technologies that can be integrated 
in the future?
    Mr. Dame. I mean, I think with future generations of 
technology, artificial intelligence, we are going to see 
unbelievable capabilities for first responders.
    Mr. Kean. Thank you.
    And then the final question with Mr. Agnew: When we talk 
about interoperability, what options are available to first 
responders for interoperability with their existing hardware, 
including land mobile radios?
    Mr. Agnew. So, currently, commercial networks are 
interoperable with FirstNet. We have technology that allows for 
land mobile radio. We can provide you a much more in-depth 
discussion of exactly what the hardware is, but with Fusion and 
Fusion Link, it is going to take that hardware-based 
technology, put it in the cloud, make it so much easier to 
implement.
    Mr. Kean. OK. Thank you all for being here and as well for 
your public service and dedication to all of our fellow 
Americans.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Hudson. Thank you.
    Seeing there are no further Members wishing to be 
recognized, I would like to thank our witnesses for your 
excellent testimony today. I think it will be extremely helpful 
to the committee moving forward.
    I remind Members they have 10 business days to submit 
questions for the record, and I ask the witnesses to respond to 
those questions promptly. Members should submit their questions 
by the close of business on February 18, 2026.
    Without objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:14 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
    [Material submitted for inclusion in the record follows:]

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