[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
BOUNCE HOUSES, DRONES, AND
MASSAGE CHAIRS: A REVIEW OF VA'S
PURCHASE HISTORY IN THE VETERAN
READINESS AND EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 2026
__________
Serial No. 119-55
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-817 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire,
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona Ranking Member
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
Mariana Islands DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
TOM BARRETT, Michigan TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 2026
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................ 1
The Honorable Chris Pappas, Ranking Member....................... 2
WITNESSES
Panel I
Ms. Margarita Devlin, Principal Deputy Undersecretary for
Benefits, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of
Veterans Affairs............................................... 4
Accompanied by:
Ms. Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive Director, Veterans
Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits
Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Ms. Julie Howell, Associate Legislative Director, Paralyzed
Veterans of America............................................ 5
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Ms. Margarita Devlin Prepared Statement.......................... 19
Ms. Julie Howell Prepared Statement.............................. 20
Statements For The Record
Veterans Education Success Prepared Statement.................... 25
The Honorable Abe Hamadeh, U.S. House of Representatives, (AZ-08)
Prepared Statement............................................. 27
BOUNCE HOUSES, DRONES, AND
MASSAGE CHAIRS: A REVIEW OF VA'S
PURCHASE HISTORY IN THE VETERAN
READINESS AND EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM
----------
THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 2026
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:33 p.m., in
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden,
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Van Orden, Pappas, McGarvey,
Ramirez, and Kennedy.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Van Orden. Good afternoon. The second meeting will come
to order. I want to thank everyone for being here today to
discuss the Veterans Readiness and Employment programs, VR&E.
The purpose of this program is to assist veterans who have
service-connected disabilities with the training and skills
they need in order to obtain meaningful employment or live
fully independent lives.
I know that this sounds so funny. I know that the doors of
this program can open for veterans and their families that they
otherwise may not have access to, so this program allows other
programs--or veterans to have access to them. It is a fantastic
benefit. That does not mean that we can give or are going to
give you guys a blank check for VR&E.
Today we are going to examine the potential waste, fraud,
and abuse that continues to occur with this multibillion-dollar
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) program. This is
directly in line with the Trump administration appointing Vice
President J.D. Vance to take care of other things in the
executive branch and we look forward to working hand-in-hand
with you guys.
Here are a couple examples. The VA has approved a purchase,
$31,000 for three custom-raised flower beds for a veteran to
learn how to live independently. Having lived independently for
a very long period of time, I never saw the necessity for a
raised flower bed. The average market price for a flower bed is
between $1,100 to $3,175. $917,000 for initial evaluation and
case management. That is what we got to talk about. What does
this evaluation and case management mean and how can we be
spending just under a million dollars for that for an
individual veteran?
The Federal Government is having to pay over market prices
on many items that are meant to help veterans find and maintain
gainful employment. This is not a fiscally responsible--this is
not fiscally responsible and shows that more guardrails and
justifications are needed to approve these purchases. The issue
here is that these purchases were made without employment
metrics or outcomes, and this is due to the VR&E program
sliding under the radar. If VA were to provide information that
shows how these purchases resulted in veteran employment, then
I am all for it as student veterans should be provided with all
the necessary items they need for self-employment, economic
opportunity and for their academic betterment.
However, we have to ensure that the taxpayers are also
protected as the costs for this program continue to skyrocket.
One individual, this is crazy, one individual has spent over
$800,000 in less than 3 years and over $300,000 in 1 year. That
is one veteran. This is an absurd amount of money that goes
against the intent of the VR&E program and my legislation would
help cap the amount of money that can be spent annually on
supplies for VR&E enrollees.
This issue here is that we do not know the outcomes and
more oversight is needed. VA projects the program to cost
double over the next 2 fiscal years. We need to make sure that
this program works for the veteran and it is not a blank check
to continuously stay in a program and not reach the ultimate
goal of program--of the meaning of the program, sorry, which is
employment.
Under current law, there is no cap on the number of times
you can enter the program. We have seen several individuals who
have been in this program for over two decades. We have several
individuals who have been involved in VR&E for over two
decades. If disabled veterans are truly in need, they can and
should--we can and should help them. I think we also agree that
a training program that continues for 20 years is not meeting
the needs of the veteran or the taxpayer. We must examine VA's
path forward with VR&E to ensure that there are checks and
balances in the program to safeguard the integrity of this
benefit, and I look forward to hearing from you guys from the
VA.
I also will mention that Ranking Member Pappas, my friend,
and I have discussed this and I think that we are of common
accord and both of us really want this program to work. We also
understand that there is--we have to have measurable outcomes
to make sure that we help the most amount of veterans as
possible.
With that, I do yield to my good friend, Ranking Member
Pappas.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHRIS PAPPAS, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When veterans finish their service to our country, too many
have difficulty figuring out what to pursue next., securing
steady employment, or experience a variety of other issues.
Adapting to civilian life. That is why the VR&E program was
established. To provide veterans with the resources and
guidance to help navigate these obstacles and secure employment
or even establish their own small business.
Indeed, VR&E is one of the most effective services that VA
provides during the critical transition period to help veterans
land on their feet, which is why I feel it is necessary to
emphasize how disingenuous I feel that the messaging and
rationale behind this hearing is. From what I understand, this
hearing was prompted by cherry-picking some of the highest cost
items from various VA regional offices. My staff requested
copies of these documents multiple times so we could understand
what was going on and scrutinize the expenditures. The majority
refused to provide a copy. I think this is extremely
frustrating since the entire discussion today was prompted and
informed by these very documents.
Nonetheless, we were able to track them down ourselves.
These documents primarily show that VR&E is doing what it is
supposed to do for veterans. Of course, like all government
programs, it needs oversight and could be improved. The items
purchased for veterans were in support of successful
businesses. That means veterans created business plans, had
them approved by a counselor, and then launched those small
businesses.
From the documents from VA, we have learned of additional
examples of veterans receiving resources from VA to start a
fishery business and a commercial printing business. In both
cases, VA's support actually exceeded any of the examples
raised by the majority in the title, but were not included in
the provocative hearing title itself. Encouraging veterans to
believe in themselves, become entrepreneurs, and build a life
where their service is complete is exactly what this program is
designed to do.
By the way, the businesses the majority has focused on,
they are still successful today, providing jobs and
contributing to local economies across the country. To point to
these purchases through some sort of Department of Government
Efficiency (DOGE) lens is completely out of context and does a
disservice to the constructive ways that we should be examining
and improving VR&E.
I am interested in helping--in hearing more from VA about
their process and controls to ensure the integrity of this
program. We should not be targeting a successful program
because it is doing what it is supposed to do: supporting
veterans who develop a successful business model approved by
both VA and Small Business Administration (SBA) and need
support to buildupon their success. The highest spending item,
in fact, was contracting out for VR&E services. That is what we
should be discussing if we want to talk about ways that we can
reduce spending, improve oversight, and improve VR&E
effectiveness for veterans.
VA is still feeling the effects of President Trump and Elon
Musk's staff cuts and now is being forced to contract out to
provide veterans with their earned benefits. That means our
veterans are receiving inferior services that are costing
Americans more. When doctors prescribe a major purchase for a
veteran, VR&E counselors are asked to approve or deny whether
or not that purchase is appropriate. In the past, that meant a
careful review of the recommendation from a doctor, a review of
the veteran's situation, and an assessment of the
appropriateness of such a purchase. With the caseloads now at
about 200 cases per counselor and staffing in the agency
reeling from DOGE cuts, counselors are simply making the best
decisions they can given limited time and resources.
We should take a serious look at what can be done to
improve this program, how we can better support VR&E staff and
its mission. This includes properly staffing the agency so it
has the staff necessary to properly conduct oversight and
reviews of spending and that we do not have to spend millions
of dollars on overpriced contractors. That is the hearing that
I believe we should be having.
This committee claims to be looking for answers as to why
VR&E is experiencing delays and I think it is simple: the
program is not staffed appropriately. With the counselors
overworked and aging out of the workforce, we are facing a
major staffing cliff at VR&E if we do not act fast. I look
forward to hearing from VA and our witnesses and our witness
from Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA) today because
oversight of VR&E is important, it is needed, and it is up to
this Congress to provide the agency with the resources it needs
to do its job.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back on.
I will introduce our witness panel. Our first witness is
Ms. Margarita Devon--Devlin, sorry, Margarita, principal deputy
undersecretary for benefits, Veterans Benefits Administration
at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Accompanying Ms. Devlin
is Ms. Chantile Stovall, acting executive director, Veterans
Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefit
Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs. Our third
witness is Ms. Julie Howell, associate legislative director at
Paralyzed Veterans of America. Thank you very much for coming.
Please stand and raise your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the
witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
Ms. Devlin, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
STATEMENT OF MARGARITA DEVLIN
Ms. Devlin. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking
Member Pappas. It is good to see you both again and
distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to testify at this hearing titled ``Bounce Houses,
Drones, and Massage Chairs: A Review of VA's Purchase History
in the Veterans Readiness and Employment Program.'' Joining me
today from the Veterans Benefits Administration is Ms. Chantile
Stovall, acting executive director of VR&E Service.
The VR&E program plays a vital role in helping veterans
overcome service-connected disabilities so they can achieve
meaningful career goals or, when employment is not feasible,
attain greater independence in their daily lives. The purchases
that may appear unconventional at first glance represent real
veterans who, through tailored rehabilitation plans, have built
successful businesses, secured long-term employment, or
achieved essential independence in their homes and in their
communities.
Congress establishes the statutory authorities under which
the VR&E program operates and VA implements those authorities
as written. The purchases referenced in the title of this
hearing were made within that framework in direct support of
approved rehabilitation plans designed to meet the
individualized needs of the veterans we serve. Each decision
reflects a balance between responsible stewardship of taxpayer
dollars and providing veterans the best opportunity for their
success.
VA remains fully committed to strengthening the VR&E
program through rigorous financial oversight, robust internal
controls, and modernization efforts that enhance service to
veterans and accountability to taxpayers and Congress. If
Congress chooses to amend these authorities or redefine the
program's parameters, VA will fully and faithfully implement
those changes. We stand ready to provide technical assistance
as you consider any potential updates to ensure the program
remains strong, accountable, and aligned with your intent.
Ms. Stovall and I are prepared to answer your questions.
Thank you very much for inviting us.
[The Prepared Statement Of Margarita Devlin Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Devlin.
The written statement of Ms. Devlin will be entered into
the hearing record.
Ms. Howell, you are now recognized for 5 minutes--for 2-1/2
minutes--just kidding, 5 minutes to deliver your testimony on
behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
STATEMENT OF JULIE HOWELL
Ms. Howell. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
members of the subcommittee, PVA appreciates the opportunity to
share our views on the Veteran Readiness and Employment
program, or VR&E.
VR&E assists disabled veterans in finding meaningful and
lasting employment despite incurring disabilities or illnesses
due to their military service. The services and supports
available to veterans with catastrophic disabilities through
VR&E are critical to ensuring their successful employment
outcomes and/or their independence. Although today's hearing is
focused on purchase history within VR&E, our written testimony
mainly highlights our broader concerns with the program. We
chose this focus because PVA believes that strong management
and oversight of the VR&E program are essential for the
program's fiscal integrity and accuracy.
I will focus my oral remarks on three topics: a brief
reminder of the mission of VR&E, some ongoing concerns that we
have, and I will close with a few suggestions that may help to
improve delivery of this critical benefit.
First, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of
what the VR&E program is supposed to do for veterans. All you
have to do is look up VR&E on any social media platform to see
that confusion abounds and answers are hard to find. At its
core, VR&E is an employment program for disabled veterans. Most
veterans believe that VR&E exists to help them return to school
or address needs related to starting their own business, but
many veterans do not understand the role of a vocational
rehabilitation counselor, or a VRC. A VRC is trained to help
veterans find suitable, sustainable, and financially sufficient
employment that will sustain them through their lives, not just
for a few years after they have completed the program. It is
imperative for stakeholders to understand that the expertise
that comes with a master's in vocational rehabilitation
directly relates to a veteran's viability and long-term
employment outcomes.
However, in this current environment, VRCs are expected to
do the administrative work of authorizations, reimbursements,
uploads, letters, dashboards, and tracking performance metrics.
These are important functions, but they are not employment
counseling. If these functions are a priority for VA, then VA
should hire staff with business, accounting, or similar
backgrounds to accomplish that work. Doing so would free up the
time, allowing a VRC to focus on the work of employment
counseling, particularly for veterans with complex
disabilities.
While PVA is grateful for the opportunities we have been
given to provide feedback on this essential program, there
seems to be a disconnect between the VA, Congress, and the
veteran community about the best ways to guarantee the
sustainability of this important program, which brings me to my
second point. For years, PVA and other Veterans Service
Organizations (VSO) have requested additional appropriations
from Congress to meet the demands of the program that is facing
exponentially increasing enrollment numbers. These requests
have mostly gone unheard. Veterans still experience long wait
times, struggle to contact their counselors, and VRCs are
overburdened by administrative tasks.
We fear that the VR&E program is experiencing a perfect
storm of high case volume, understaffing, and an enormous
amount of administrative burden. Morale is low, demand is high,
and VRCs are close to burning out. If something is not done to
address these issues, veterans will likely wait even longer to
get into the program, enrolled veterans may experience delayed
payments and other negative effects that could impact their
long-term well being.
Finally, I would like to offer a couple suggestions that we
think could help in the delivery of benefits for VR&E
participants. First, VR&E needs to hire additional staff.
Recently, on a stakeholder engagement call, VR&E shared that
they were undergoing a hiring blitz to help fill vacancies
across the country. However, it is unclear from that
conversation which positions VA is prioritizing. The VR&E
program, again, should consider hiring additional support staff
to help reduce the administrative burden that is falling heavy
on the shoulders of counselors.
Next, VR&E should create national specialty teams for
complex service tracks, such as retroactive inductions, self-
employment, and independent living.
Additionally, VR&E should end mandatory overtime. VRCs are
not a finite resource, and PVA has concerns about the
sustainability of this cadre in the face of increasing demand.
Without sufficient staffing across the country, veterans will
continue to face barriers that impact their financial
independence as well as their participation in the labor
market.
In closing, VR&E is an earned benefit intended to get
veterans into suitable employment, and the longstanding issues
that have been voiced over the years continue. It is essential
that we do everything we can to ensure the sustainability of
the VR&E program.
Thank you again for the invitation to testify, and I
welcome any questions you have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Julie Howell Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Howell.
The written statement of Ms. Howell will be entered into
the hearing record.
We are now going to proceed to questionings. They are going
to call votes here in a little bit, so we are going to do 3
minutes per member and then if we have time, we will go into a
second round of questions. I just do not want to stop there and
restart it again.
With that said, I now recognize Ranking Member Pappas for 3
minutes.
Mr. Pappas. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
The President's budget was just released and it targets
hiring 300 counselors next year to support the growing, growing
caseloads within VR&E. Ms. Devlin, I wonder if I could ask you
a few questions about this, if you could address the current
caseload within VR&E.
Ms. Devlin. Yes, thank you for the question. Our current
ratio is 1-to-199, which is why we really need to get these
counselors hired.
Mr. Pappas. If the 300 are hired, does that get us closer
to the 1-to-125? Does it get us all the way there?
Ms. Devlin. It will get us closer, not all the way.
Mr. Pappas. Can you address what Ms. Howell brought up in
her testimony about the need for more support staff and how
that could, you know, help balance the workload of VRCs?
Ms. Devlin. Thank you for the question. I agree that VRCs
should be spending more time counseling veterans and less time
on administrative tasks. When we look at what lends itself to
satisfaction with the program, what veterans will typically
tell you is their relationship with their counselor is the most
important part of their satisfaction, that connection, the
ability to have the counselor fully invest in that veteran's
success. The Readiness and Employment System (RES) system that
we are in the process of deploying will take a lot of that
administrative burden off of the counselors while also
administering more internal controls for fiscal accountability.
Mr. Pappas. How confident are you that this 300 target can
be hit? Do we have enough qualified applicants that will be out
there for us to hire? Do you feel like the pay scale is
competitive enough with the private sector?
Ms. Devlin. It is a great question. Yes. We are all--we are
about halfway there on our goal to hire these individuals. We
went out with a very aggressive recruitment strategy. We did
not just put, you know, job announcements on USAJobs. We
recruited through the Commission on Rehabilitation Counselor
Certification, through LinkedIn, through the colleges and
universities that offer these training programs. We got more
applicants than ever and we are in the process of filling all
those vacancies.
Mr. Pappas. I am wondering if you can address some of the
expenditures that we were taking a look at: 49,000 for fishing
supplies, 46,000 on a Ultraviolet (UV) printer for a commercial
printing company. I understand that you cannot get into the
specifics of these, you know, veterans' cases. I am wondering
if you can answer this, are the veterans who received those
resources currently running small businesses with these
supplies and have they been successful?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, I will let Ms. Stovall address those
specific cases. We were--we did look into the cases that are
the subject of the letter. I will tell you that it was really
heartwarming to hear the stories as told by these veterans of
their self-employment success and the challenges that they had
trying to find employment before they got to a VR&E counselor,
who helped them achieve their dream of having their own
business.
I will let Ms. Stovall address those specific cases.
Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. With regard to the
fish hatchery supplies that was purchased, the 49,000 for that
purchase, that is for a veteran that is participating in self-
employment and they are successfully operating their business.
In fact, they reported earnings of 237,000 for 2024. The
veteran is still in the program right now. We do have a
requirement to follow them for up to a year before we close the
case to make sure that the program or the business is still
viable and sustainable.
Mr. Pappas. Okay. I am over my time, so I yield back.
Thanks.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
The chair now recognizes my friend from the great State of
Kentucky, Mr. McGarvey.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
being here.
This program is so important because our veterans are so
important. The Veterans Readiness and Employment program, or
VR&E as we are calling it, this is something that veterans turn
to when they are trying to rebuild their futures. They are
looking for a path back to work, back to stability, back to
independence. That is why every delay, every unclear message
from VA, it has real-world, real-life consequences for these
veterans and their families.
Participation in VR&E has grown a lot in recent years
because of the Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our
Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act. I think
this is a good thing. This is a positive development. Too many
veterans are walking into a system right now that is
overwhelmed. We got to make sure that these veterans--sometimes
are waiting months to talk to a counselor for the first time.
In the most extreme cases, the wait is stretched past 5 months,
that is not a small inconvenience. That is a veteran sitting at
home. That is a veteran who is unable to start school. That is
a veteran who is not back to work, who is not beginning
training, who is not moving forward.
What the veteran tells us and the data shows is that the
real challenge here is access and communication. Veterans
cannot reach their counselors. Appointments are rushed. Some
are told to complete forms on their own that are meant to be
filled out with the help of a super--a trained professional.
When the process becomes really confusing, then the veterans,
they lose time, they lose their benefits, they sometimes just
give up altogether.
I want to point out that is not the veteran's failure. That
is a failure of the system that is supposed to be helping our
veterans.
At the end of the day, this program, we know it works when
the veterans can actually use it, when they can get an
appointment, when they can understand the process, when they
can trust that the VA is focused on them and their success.
That is what today should be about. Are the veterans getting
what they need to build their future? Are we letting political
theater getting in the way?
Ms. Devlin, I will start with you. You heard me mention
that we have seen VR&E wait times stretch from a couple of
weeks to more than 5 months in some areas. What is VA doing
right now, not in 2027, not after another Information
Technology (IT) rollout, but right now to shorten those wait
times for veterans who are stuck in limbo?
Ms. Devlin. Thank you for the question. You are right, we
were well on our way to reducing those wait times before the
government shut down. Unfortunately, during those 43 days, we
were unable to process any applications or conduct counseling
appointments. We are working through it. We want our veterans
to get into programs as quickly as possible.
We are doing many different things. One of the things we
are doing in the process of hiring is while those vacancies
exist in certain stations, we are making sure to sort of
equalize the work by distributing it more equitably across
where we have staffing capacity. Many of our veterans prefer
the telecounseling appointments anyway. It really does not
matter if your counselor is in Milwaukee or in San Diego.
Right? As long as you can get your appointment, get into a
rehab plan, and get started on your way. That is helped us to
control time and we are bringing that timeliness back down
again.
Mr. McGarvey. Thanks. It has to be brought down. Also, it
is not just the timeless, in the few seconds I have got left,
it is communicating to the veteran what that is and then
holding up your-all's end of the bargain.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. McGarvey. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
I now recognize myself for 3 minutes.
What is the educational requirement, Ms. Devlin, for a VA
counselor?
Ms. Devlin. Master's level training and rehabilitation
counseling. We have recently expanded it to allow many other
master's level degrees to count toward that requirement.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got something through the House, a
bill that lowers that to a bachelor's degree requirement, which
I went to VR&E myself personally. You do not need a master's
degree to be a counselor. Right after we got that passed, it
was a couple weeks after, they announced they are hiring these
things and the President's--about 300 new counselors. I would
like 3,000 new counselors.
The education requirement is silly. That is an
administrative restraint that the VA has put on itself.
What is the average full employment rate from the last
cycle for a veteran that goes through VR&E?
Ms. Devlin. I am sorry. I do not understand the question.
Mr. Van Orden. Of the veterans that go through the VR&E
program, what is the full employment rate from this last cycle?
Ms. Devlin. Of the veterans that went through. Last year,
we had 10,527 actually be declared as a successful outcome,
55,301 entered a new rehabilitation plan during that year and
83,188 continued pursuing a previously developed plan.
Mr. Van Orden. Where does the percentage 37 come into this?
Ms. Devlin. I am not sure where that is coming from.
Mr. Van Orden. That is if you look at the full employment
rate.
How many jobs have graduates? I know this is not the
intended purpose of this. Specifically, how many jobs have
graduates of VRE created? Like, for instance, the fish
hatchery, which, by the way, that is not a lot of money for a
fish hatchery. I will be honest. We have got one in our
district. I do not know how small that joint is, but--so how
many people does that person employ? Do we know?
Ms. Stovall. I am not sure of that, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. These are the sorts of things that we
need to start tracking because if we want to invest, you know,
Mr. Pappas brings up this amount of money for this commercial
printing thing. If we are going to invest a million dollars
into a veteran and they are hiring 50 people, that is a heck of
a lot different than investing a million dollars into a veteran
who is self-employed and not employing anybody else.
If we look at this program more holistically and understand
that we want our veterans to be radically successful, I want
this to be very available to everybody, but when we are looking
at these numbers, we need to have more metrics of, like, what
is actually happening. Like what is the average length of
employment for a veteran following their case closing at VR&E?
Ms. Devlin. If you look at our longitudinal study, which
has been following veterans for about 20 years, their
percentage of employment rate is 74 percent.
Mr. Van Orden. For how long?
Ms. Devlin. Well, the oldest category that we are following
is from 2010----
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Ms. Devlin [continuing]. so 16 years.
Mr. Van Orden. For the average amount of years a person
is----
Ms. Devlin. Veterans who went through the program in 2010,
who are still----
Mr. Van Orden. I am going to respect my own rule. My time
has expired. We are going to go into a second round of
questioning.
I now recognize the ranking member for, you know, you want
to just do 5 minutes?
Mr. Pappas. Whatever you think.
Mr. Van Orden. I now recognize the ranking member for 5
minutes. I think they are holding votes here.
Mr. Pappas. All right. Thanks for your generosity, Mr.
Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Oh, sheesh, knock it off.
Mr. Pappas. Ms. Devlin, I understand the requests for VR&E
resources are reviewed, they require approval. Could you talk a
little bit more about the oversight and controls that are in
place for these expenditures? Are there instances in which VA
may decline a veteran's initial business model? Even if the
business model is approved, are there declines in terms of
request for resources?
Ms. Devlin. Thank you for the question. Yes, we do have an
approval process, which I can let Ms. Stovall talk about. We
would potentially deny a program. We collaborate with the Small
Business Administration, also, in helping to evaluate the
feasibility of the program. Ms. Stovall can speak to----
Mr. Pappas. Okay.
Ms. Devlin [continuing]. the internal controls we have.
Ms. Stovall. Yes, thank you. We do have internal controls
which start at the regional office. There are the plans that
cost over $50,000 would come to me for review. During my time
that I have been in this seat for the past 8 months, I have had
the opportunity to review three of those plans--excuse me, five
plans, and one has been approved, one has been denied, and
there are three others that are going through the process right
now.
When we look at those plans, we are looking for viability.
We are looking to determine if it is a feasible vocational goal
for the veteran or not and if they have considered all the
criteria, like can this veteran complete traditional employment
or not, before we jump to self-employment. On those bases are--
those are kind of what we look at.
Also, if the business is already an existing business, that
is not something that we would support under self-employment.
Mr. Pappas. Okay. I appreciate that.
Regarding the $15,000 that was spent on the massage chair,
I wonder if you have some additional context for that one. Does
VA stand by the purchase and agree that it was needed?
Ms. Stovall. Yes. The massage chair was purchased for 100
percent service-connected disabled veteran that suffered from
some vascular as well as mental health conditions, Post-
Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) or phobia. We did consult with
Veterans Health Administration (VHA) medical--well,
professional occupational therapist who approved the
recommendation for that particular chair.
I would just like to say when we are--it is an independent
living case and so when we are looking at what is appropriate
for the veteran, I think we need to look at the whole person.
This is one of those psychosocial, you know, areas where we
need to consider what is necessary for this veteran to be able
to live independently in their community. By being able to
relieve the stress and anxiety, we were able to successfully
rehab her where she could start to integrate into her
community.
Mr. Pappas. Thank you for that.
The documents provided on VR&E spending from VA also show
incredibly high spending on contracting. In fact, the
contracting dollars dwarf the actual spending on supplies for
veterans. I am wondering if you can just tell us more about why
VA is contracting to this degree, spending millions of dollars
on contracting within VR&E.
Ms. Devlin. Yes, thank you for that question. I have been
in the VA for a long time, and when I started as a counselor,
we had contracting back then.
Contracting does not replace the need for a counselor.
Contractors help support, but they cannot make decisions. They
can do the part of the process, for example, of assessing
interests, aptitudes, abilities, helping the veteran explore
career opportunities, developing some proposed avenues for the
veteran to achieve those goals. Then they turn that work into a
counselor, who meets with the veteran and makes the final
decisions and then approves any purchases that might be
required for that. We can also have contractors support case
management to help make sure we are getting grades and, you
know, supporting the veteran through their training.
The contracts used to be done at the regional office level
when I started almost 31 years ago. For many years now, they
have been centralized in Central Office. It is sort of one
giant contract vehicle and then the regional offices issue task
orders against them. That creates greater control, greater
accountability, and better sort of fiscal responsibility
because we can get better pricing that way.
Mr. Pappas. Ms. Howell, I am wondering if you can answer
the question about whether you do--whether VA was spending this
amount of money on contracting and how you view that.
Ms. Howell. Thank you for the question, sir. I believe Ms.
Devlin spoke about contracting in her last testimony on VR&E.
We did not really know what that looked like or what it meant
to be people in the field. I think if VR&E, if they are so
overburdened by people coming into the program or existing
cases that they need to spend this kind of money for
contracting, it begs the question, like, can we not just spend
that money hiring additional staff with the understanding that
there is going to be onboarding? Like you have--just because
you have that master's in rehabilitative counseling, you still
need to learn the VA systems. You still need--everyone knows
what it is like to be new at a job. You got to learn the way
this stuff goes.
Sorry, I do not know if I should keep talking or if he is
going to get----
Mr. Pappas. I do not think he noticed, but now he has.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Pappas. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Well, no, because I am looking. I am looking
at this.
The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State
of Kentucky.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am going to go back with you. PVA has warned that VR&E is
at a dangerous tipping point, and that is a quote. You say this
is because there are high caseloads because of the
administrative burden that is going on there. From your
perspective, what is the single biggest barrier preventing
veterans, especially those with catastrophic disabilities, from
getting timely, meaningful VR&E support?
Ms. Howell. Thank you for the question, sir. I think the
thing that is most in the way for one of my members being able
to successfully engage with the program is that thoughtful
employment counseling, which is what a VRC's job is. I think
there is a fundamental misunderstanding between the education
level required for a VRC to do that employment counseling long
term for a veteran with catastrophic disabilities. If we have a
case, like I was a VR&E participant, the chairman was a VR&E
participant, we are able-bodied veterans that do not have the
same level of complexities as someone who is a member of my
organization.
If VRCs are spending their time doing all these
administrative tasks and they are being pulled away from
offering true employment counseling, that does a disservice to
our members. We have spoken to many VRCs over the years and we
are hearing that, you know, we are trying to rate VRC's
performance metrics by the same metrics that they are applying
to claims raters. These are fundamentally different services
and their delivery is completely different. If a VRC is
spending time being thoughtful about the employment counseling
they are delivering to veterans that is showing up in their
metrics and they are getting pressure from their management to
improve the metrics for leadership.
I do think it is a fine line between allowing them to do
their job, which, again, is rehabilitative counseling for
complex disabilities and complex cases. A traditional education
path may be someone without a bachelor's degree, that is fine.
They can handle those cases that were like the chairman's or
mine's that do not have those complexities. VRCs need to be
allowed to offer thoughtful employment counseling for the
veterans that need it.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Ms. Howell. I appreciate that.
I will just say for the veterans in the independent living
track, the delays do not just slow down a career. They affect
the daily life of a veteran. What changes would make the
biggest difference for those veterans right now? You talked
about some of the problems. What changes would you make right
now to make the biggest difference right now?
Ms. Howell. Thank you for the question, sir. I do not know
that fixing independent living has--there is an immediate
solution to this, but I do think that experienced VRCs who have
been at this game a long time, they can create a sort of tiger
team to handle these more complex cases, so that as we are
onboarding these new VRCs that, again, are learning systems,
the experienced, folks--because independent living is, from
what I have been told, a very complex system thing to manage as
a VRC. If we allow a tiger team of some sort of experts who are
well trained in processing all the paperwork needed for this,
understand the tracking mechanisms, the consultations with VHA
and occupational therapists, if we can create a team that
understands that system and have them work on these cases, I
think that would have an impact.
Yes. Thank you.
Mr. McGarvey. Cool.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
I was just listening and we are having great parallel
discussions here because we are trying to process what is going
through, and it is great.
The RES system--or let us clear some--clear the air a
little bit here. We have two different things here. You are
asking for more counselors, which is why we lowered the
educational threshold, because I fundamentally disagree that
you need a master's degree so we can get--where the pool of
potential applicants will be greater. That is great. Then you
are asking for support staff. Well, the contractors are filling
the position of the support staff now.
I think it is--I want these things to go through quickly, I
want them to be efficient, and I want them to be very
effective. The ability to hire all these other people into the
VA system, you know, in a timely manner so that backlogs and
everything for the VR&E program, we are going to have to deal
with, what did Dick Cheney say? You do not go to war with the
Army you want, you go to the war with the Army you have. This
is what we have right now. We are trying to get this right.
When is this RES going to be on the readiness employment
system? When is that going to be FOC, or fully operational
capable?
Ms. Devlin. That is a great question. It is in Initial
Operational Capability (IOC) right now in all 56 regional
offices. It will be fully enabled with all cases by Veterans'
Day.
Mr. Van Orden. Oh, that is a pretty good day.
Ms. Devlin. Mm-hmm, it is.
Mr. Van Orden. Then how many of these contracting positions
are going to be eliminated once that is FOC?
Ms. Devlin. Contract support is basically surge support. it
is not that we have positions. We have contracts that enable us
to surge when we need to. For example, we have a higher volume
of applicants that hit the San Diego area all at once. We can
leverage contractors to help support those counselors.
These are people with the same credentials. Those
credentials are important to be able to understand the physical
and emotional aspects of disability and how that relates to the
labor market. There is a relevance to this education
requirement.
Mr. Van Orden. I get it. Ms. Howell, then how does that
jive with what you said, that we should have more permanent
positions if the contractors that we are hiring in surge
capacity have the same qualifications as the people that you
are saying you want to be employed by the VA? Did I hear that
right? It sounds like you want two pieces of pie or something.
If Ms. Devlin is saying that the contractors that are being
hired and are working at the VA have the same accreditation and
qualifications as a permanent party person in the VA, why are
you asking for more VA employees if it is already being met by
the contracting entity?
Ms. Howell. Well, I am not--I do not have the numbers. The
data was not shared with me on the expenditures on what is
spent on these contracts. I did not have access to that
information.
What I can say is that we are in a surge moment right now.
Since I have been doing this work, we have been over the
threshold with or without contracting. The caseload has never
been below 1-to-125 in the 4 years I have been at PVA. They
still need a full-time staff, like, to do these things. It
stands to reason that it might be cheaper to offer this stuff
in-house rather than contracting.
Additionally, when it comes to the contracting, we have
been told from veterans that they are joining their intake call
that is supposed to be a one-on-one with a counselor, and them
and 400 of their closest battle buddies are on a Zoom with one
person trying to do the, like, the intro sort of orientation
course for this.
Mr. Van Orden. I hear you. I am just one thing that I am
going to push back on you here. I do not--cheaper is not a word
I am going to use when it comes to veterans. So efficiency,
that sort of stuff, but never cheaper. Less expensive maybe,
more efficient, 100 percent. We are not--and I know that we
have not discussed this, but I know Chris and I are 6 and 7. We
do not talk about--we are not going to cheap our veterans
anywhere. Maybe that is not what you intended to say.
Ms. Devlin, who certifies these contractors?
Ms. Devlin. The contracting officer puts the requirements
in the contract and the person who oversees the contract would
review the resumes and confirm that they meet the requirements.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. A permanent Veterans Affairs
Administration employee and this contractor, the same person is
making sure they have this proper certification. Correct?
Ms. Devlin. It is not a certification, it is an educational
requirement. Yes, essentially when an employee is hired, a
Federal Government employee is hired, it is part of the hiring
process. Right?
Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
Ms. Devlin. We verify for a contractor, we review the
contract, the resumes that get submitted for the contract as
they get submitted. It is surge capacity, so these are not----
Mr. Van Orden. Hold on 1 second. I only have 15 seconds.
Ms. Howell, we have a--it is a volume issue, not a quality
issue. Is that right?
Ms. Howell. Yes, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Well, we are working on that. We
really are.
Good. Okay. Well, with that, my time has expired.
I would like to thank you all for coming today. I thank you
for your work, I really do. As I said, I am a--I attended--it
is so funny. I went to VR&E and now I am a Member of Congress,
so maybe we should cancel the entire program. Just kidding.
We are working diligently and it is going to--it is just
going to take time. Just like it takes time to educate
somebody. Takes time to hire somebody. Takes time to get into a
place. Takes some time to learn your job. I think that we can
all agree that we want to be in the same place, that is every
veteran that has earned this--earned, it is not a gift--that
has earned this benefit, has timely access to the programs that
they are suited for.
I will throw out these two different anecdotes.
Interestingly enough, I wanted to go to culinary school and
they would not approve it because I had been diagnosed with
PTSD and they have to provide you with knives. The other one
was, it was a running joke in the office that I went through my
stuff is they actually approved clown school for somebody. That
is real.
What we want to do is make sure that every one of these
dollars is applied most bang for the buck. I would like to see
some more metrics. You said you did a longitudinal study for
over 16 years. I would like to see how many people they are
employing and all these things so that we can maximize, Ms.
Howell, every single thing that we can do for these veterans
because it is critically important and I think it is great.
To be able to have dignity as a disabled veteran is
crucial, and that is earned. It is up to us to fulfill that
promise that we have made to our veterans.
With that, I would like to yield to my ranking member for
any closing comments.
Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you very much and thanks for our
witnesses for their testimony here today.
Look, I have gotten to know veterans in New Hampshire that
have successfully navigated VR&E and are benefiting in real
time from the resources that are provided. I think to Ms.
Howell's point, during your, you know, years at PVA, the
caseload issue continues to be a problem. We have an
overburdened program, and we need more people that are working
as counselors or supporting counselors to be able to ensure
that veterans are ultimately getting what they need and deserve
out of the program.
I am glad we could drill down beyond the headline of this
hearing today and actually talk a little bit about the
substance of what is going on. I think we all need to make sure
that we are continuing to work on process improvements,
ensuring that there is the right scrutiny and oversight
provided. I think you gave us good answers on that front today.
I come back to that core issue. You know, we have got to
work on those ratios. We, we got to make sure that veterans are
not waiting and that they are getting the good service that VA
I know intends to put out.
Let us continue to work on that, and yield back my time.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Thank you, Ranking
Member Pappas, and thank you very much for coming today. We--
you guys are becoming frequent flyers over there.
I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
any extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered.
The hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:16 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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A P P E N D I X
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Prepared Statements of Witnesses
----------
Prepared Statement of Margarita Devlin
Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
distinguished members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to
discuss the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Veteran Readiness and
Employment (VR&E) program. I am accompanied by Ms. Chantile Stovall,
Acting VR&E Service Director.
Program Overview
The purpose of the VR&E program is to provide temporary, targeted
intervention for Service members and Veterans with service-connected
disabilities affecting their ability to obtain or maintain suitable
employment or live independently. It provides individualized counseling
and rehabilitation services through five service tracks - rapid access
to employment, re-employment, employment through long-term services,
self-employment and independent living. Once entitlement is
established, program participants receive tailored support directed
specifically toward their vocational or independent living goals and
limited solely to those essential services pertinent to their approved
rehabilitation plans. Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors (VRCs) work
with participants to set goals, develop tailored rehabilitation plans
and guide progress through structured case management.
VR&E provides services nationwide through 56 regional offices, the
National Capital Region Benefits Office, approximately 142 out-based
locations, 70 military installations supporting the Integrated
Disability Evaluation System, and 104 VetSuccess on Campus sites. In
Fiscal Year 2025, more than 1,500 employees delivered over $2.8B in
services to more than 199,600 Veterans.
VRCs and Vocational Rehabilitation Specialists (VRS) operate within
defined VR&E policies, established cost thresholds, and approval
protocols. While rehabilitation plans are developed collaboratively
with Veterans, every requested service, supply, or piece of equipment
must directly support the approved goal and be fully documented.
Staff follow standardized procedures to verify need, justify each
item, and obtain supervisory or higher-level approval for requests that
exceed delegated authority. These controls ensure VR&E provides only
resources essential for training, employment preparation, self-
employment, or Independent Living while upholding responsible
stewardship of program funds.
Program Oversight
Before a rehabilitation plan is finalized, all services and
equipment must be approved according to statutory, regulatory and VR&E
policy thresholds. VR&E enforces internal controls that include
supervisory review, fiscal oversight, and required justification when a
plan exceeds a counselor's authority. The Invoice Payment Processing
System (IPPS) further safeguards approvals by routing requests to the
correct official and preventing actions beyond delegated authority.
Higher cost or complex procurements may require approval from
regional or national VR&E leadership. These controls ensure all
procurements are justified, compliant, and aligned with program goals.
VR&E maintains a robust oversight structure across its regional
operations. VR&E Officers conduct local quality reviews to ensure
compliance with policy, documentation standards, and fiscal controls,
while Support Services Divisions audit purchase card transactions for
adherence to financial and acquisition regulations.
Nationally, VR&E Service reinforces consistency through targeted
quality reviews, onsite visits, and assessments conducted via the
Systematic Oversight and Analysis Review (SOAR). Together, these
strengthen internal controls, mitigate risk, and support disciplined
fiscal stewardship. As a result, VR&E maintains a 97 percent fiscal
accuracy score, which is a measure of the accuracy of fiscal activity
in Chapter 31 cases, including subsistence allowance, and payments such
as tuition, fees, books, and supplies.
Modernization Efforts
VA is strengthening VR&E oversight through the new Readiness &
Employment System (RES), designed to consolidate case management and
financial controls into one modern platform. RES has been deployed
across all 56 regional offices and will replace the legacy Corporate
WINRS\1\ system. RES standardizes workflows, automates manual
processes, and ensures entitlement decisions, plans and authorizations
are consistently documented and auditable. Role based workflows and
electronic audit trails enhance accountability. Advanced capabilities--
such as expanded automation and near-real time financial monitoring--
are currently under development and are expected to be completed by the
end of Q2 Fiscal Year 2027.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Corporate Winston-Salem, Indianapolis, Newark, Roanoke, and
Seattle System. The name is derived from the first letter of the names
of the five pilot test stations that tested the original program. It is
an automated case management system supporting the VR&E program
(legacy).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These transformation efforts embed internal controls into daily
operations, strengthen compliance with VA and Federal standards, and
improves the quality, timeliness of information available for
management, reporting and oversight. Collectively, RES will enhance
VR&Es ability to deliver efficient, transparent, and accountable
services to Veterans.
Program Metrics
Program participation has grown significantly since passage of the
PACT Act, which expanded eligibility for VR&E services. Since August
2022, participation has increased 74 percent--from 120,000 to 210,000
as of March 2026, demonstrating sustained demand for rehabilitation and
employment support.
In Fiscal Year 2025, VR&E delivered record-setting performance
across every major measure. The program completed 126,960 entitlement
determinations, 55,301 Veterans began new rehabilitation programs, and
83,188 Veterans continued in their previously established programs.
During the same period, VR&E supported 21,773 Veterans in becoming job-
ready; and achieved 19,372 successful program completions--the highest
in program history. This included a record 10,527 Veterans who secured
employment. These outcomes reflect significant progress in preparing
Veterans for long-term career success, stability, and economic
independence.
Conclusion
In closing, VA remains deeply committed to advancing and
strengthening the VR&E program, particularly in its financial
oversight, internal controls and transformation efforts. To optimally
serve Veterans, I am committed to regularly evaluating and refining
program parameters in alignment with evolving demands and best
practices. Implementing explicit expectations and comprehensive
accountability frameworks for participating Veterans is essential. By
establishing transparent evaluation metrics and systematically tracking
progress, the program can enhance its effectiveness in facilitating
meaningful and sustainable outcomes for Veterans. Chairman Van Orden
and Ranking Member Pappas, this concludes my statement. My colleague
and I welcome any questions you or other Members of the Subcommittee
may have.
Prepared Statement of Julie Howell
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and members of the
subcommittee, Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA), appreciates the
opportunity to share our views on the Veteran Readiness and Employment
(VR&E) Program. VR&E assists disabled veterans in finding meaningful
and lasting employment despite incurring disabilities and illnesses due
to their military service. The services and supports available to
veterans with catastrophic disabilities through VR&E are critical to
ensuring their successful employment outcomes and independence.
Prior to the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
in 1990, there were no widespread Federal protections against
disability-based employment discrimination. PVA was a leader in
advocating for the passage of this seminal civil rights law that
provides opportunities and access for people with disabilities,
including disabled veterans. While the ADA guaranteed equal opportunity
in public accommodations, employment, and State and local government
services, many disabled veterans still encounter challenges when
attempting to participate in the labor market.
PVA has been fortunate to share our views on the VR&E program over
the years and has testified several times before this subcommittee. We
appreciate each of these opportunities but there still seems to be a
disconnect between the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA), Congress,
and the veteran community about the best ways to ensure the
sustainability of this important program. So, PVA would like to take
this opportunity to discuss the basics of the VR&E program, highlight
the importance of the Independent Living (IL) track for disabled
veterans, and offer solutions for the program's future. Also, we will
recommend ways to improve the experience for veterans attempting to
access the program, as well as those enrolled, and discuss the
relationship between PVA and the VR&E program.
VR&E Tracks and Purpose
For more than a century, the VR&E program has provided vocational
rehabilitation counseling and other resources that contribute to the
long-term well-being of our Nation's disabled veterans. The program is
comprised of five tracks that offer specialized services and supports,
providing veterans with the expertise of Vocational Rehabilitation
Counselors (VRCs) who help them determine suitable employment
opportunities based on their long-term abilities. The five tracks are
reemployment, rapid access to employment, self-employment, employment
through long-term services, and independent living.
The reemployment track can assist those who have recently separated
from the military and who would like to return to their old employer,
when suitable. This track makes the most sense for servicemembers
returning to a civilian job from an activation who need workplace
accommodations due to injury or illness sustained during service, and
for those under the protection of the Uniformed Services Employment and
Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA).
The rapid access to employment track helps veterans who wish to use
their existing skills in their next job. Veterans enrolled in this
track may be eligible for employment counseling, short-term training,
job-search and job-placement support from VRCs or other program staff,
such as a Vocational Rehabilitation Specialist (VRS).
The employment through long-term services track is designed to
support veterans who are struggling to find meaningful employment due
to the severity of their service-connected injury or illness. This
track allows veterans to pursue education or training to obtain
employment beyond their current skill set and experience. Employment
through long-term services is often one of the most misunderstood
tracks. Too many veterans assume that when they are eligible for VR&E,
they are automatically eligible for this track and that the VA will pay
for whatever education path they are interested in. However, that is
not the case. VR&E is not the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
The self-employment track is intended for veterans with an
employment barrier who have the desire, skills, and drive to run a
successful business. While in this track, veterans may receive
coordination services and assistance with a business plan, an analysis
of the business concept, training in small-business operations,
marketing, and finance, as well as guidance on obtaining the resources
needed to carry out the business plan. This track is coordinated with
the Small Business Administration, which approves business plans on
behalf of the VRCs. Historically, the self-employment track has been
marred with confusion, barriers to entry, and a lack of transparency.
Last, the IL track is designed to help disabled veterans achieve
maximum independence in their daily lives. If a veteran has difficulty
with activities of daily living, such as bathing, dressing, entering or
exiting their home, or if a veteran is so disabled that they cannot
work, they may qualify for IL services. Through the IL track, a veteran
may be eligible for various home adaptation grants intended to improve
the accessibility of a veteran's home and enhance a veteran's overall
quality of life.
Independent Living and Catastrophically Disabled Veterans
The IL track was established by Congress in 1980 as a pilot program
with an initial enrollment cap of 500 veterans per fiscal year. Over
time, the cap has increased, most recently to 2,700 in 2010.
The IL track focuses on providing services to veterans with severe
disabilities; so, they may improve functioning with their disabling
condition, allowing them to consider employment or volunteer work.
Through IL, the VA can guide these veterans in developing goals and
provide information, referrals to support resources, and case
management, if necessary, to support their success. Several creative
alternatives to employment preparation can be recommended, purchased,
or approved by a veteran's counselor to enhance a veteran's quality of
life.
The IL track must be able to accept any veteran who could benefit,
free from concerns about exceeding the arbitrary enrollment cap. In
addition, VR&E counselors must be well-versed in the IL track to ensure
that eligible individuals who would benefit most from enrollment are
given the opportunity to participate. Once a veteran is in the program,
VRCs must also closely track referrals to VA services and benefits to
ensure they are addressed. Otherwise, the program will fail the
veterans it serves, and their independence will be at risk.
Improving Understanding of the VR&E Program
There is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the VR&E Program is
supposed to do for veterans. You need only look up VR&E on any social
media platform to see that veterans across the country do not fully
understand its purpose. At its core, VR&E is an employment program for
disabled veterans. The differences between tracks may seem frivolous to
many people, but within each track are specific guidelines and
regulations that authorize or limit what can be approved.
Most veterans believe VR&E exists to help them return to school or
address needs related to starting their own business, but they often
fail to understand the role of a VRC in the process. There have been
many debates about the education level required for a VRC, along with
proposals to reduce the education requirement for the position. It is
imperative for stakeholders to understand that the expertise that comes
with a master's in vocational rehabilitation directly relates to a
veteran's viability and long-term employment outcomes.
It makes little sense for a veteran who is service-connected for
bad knees and a bad back to be approved by a VR&E counselor for work in
a labor-intensive field. The service-connected disabilities the veteran
possesses will inevitably be exacerbated by this type of work, and the
veteran will likely need to find another career path in the future. But
what happens to those veterans when they've exhausted their education
benefits and VR&E eligibility, and then find themselves needing
assistance at a critical juncture in their lives? A VRC is trained to
find that veteran suitable, sustainable, and financially sufficient
employment that will sustain them through their lives, not just for a
handful of years after leaving the program.
Improve and Enhance VR&E
For years, PVA, and other veterans service organizations (VSOs)
have requested that the VR&E program receive additional appropriations
from Congress to meet veterans' demand for the program. Over the past
few years, VR&E program enrollment has grown exponentially with little
increase in staff or resources. Now, we find ourselves in a crisis.
Veterans are experiencing the longest wait times of the program's
history, counselors are drowning in administrative burden, and still,
we have hearings asking VSOs and the VA, ``How can we fix this?'' The
answer is simple: there needs to be a hiring blitz for VR&E counselors
and program support staff.
Another potential barrier within the program is that the decision
to hire an additional counselor is determined at the Regional Office
(RO) level. With limited available funds, the RO may need additional
raters or other staff who they believe are more important than a VRC or
other VR&E staff. Ironically, in past hearings, Congress demanded that
the program's director fill positions in ROs across the country, but
the director lacks that authority. After discovering significant wait
times in the San Diego area, VR&E activated a Tiger Team to help get
the situation under control. The team successfully got the RO back on
track, proving that additional staff can subdue this crisis. The VA
should prioritize hiring VRCs, VRSs, and other administrative staff
that can help where the need is the greatest, working to reduce the
backlog of applications, streamline approvals, and delegate
administrative tasks to support staff to increase a VRC's ability to
offer direct employment counseling to the most complex cases.
VR&E is intended to provide rehabilitation counseling to disabled
veterans with complex disabilities and serious barriers to employment.
Providing professional, intensive, and supportive counseling is now
something that VRCs get penalized for. Instead, they are being asked to
prioritize authorizations, reimbursements, uploads, letters,
dashboards, and performance metrics. While these are important
functions, they are not counseling. If these functions are now the
priority of the VA, then they should hire individuals with business,
accounting, or similar backgrounds to accomplish that work. VRCs must
be able to focus on what they are trained to do: care for veterans and
their employment situations.
The current trajectory of the VR&E program is unsustainable. The
program is experiencing a perfect storm of high case volume,
understaffing, and an enormous amount of administrative burden. We have
heard that morale is impossibly low. The demands of management are
crushing counselors. Meanwhile, the metrics they are expected to
perform are created for claims raters, not VRCs and employment
outcomes. All VRCs are forced to work mandatory overtime, while also
receiving emails about the importance of work-life balance.
Changes are needed to place counseling back at the center of VR&E
delivery to ensure severely disabled veterans receive access to the
benefits they have earned. Some recommendations to improve the program
are to:
Hire additional VRSs to handle basic case management
tasks such as collecting grades, submitting authorizations to schools,
reviewing bills, contacting veterans for missing paperwork, conducting
outreach on inactive cases, and other work that doesn't require the
skills of a VRCs.
Let master's-level VRCs determine program eligibility;
administer vocational assessments and career exploration; manage plan
development and redevelopment; research appropriate training programs;
conduct labor market analysis; coordinate services with other
departments; assess the need for accommodations; assist with job
placement; and, overall, have more contact with higher-need veterans.
Create specialty or tiger teams, composed of master's-
level VRCs for more complex service tracks, such as IL and self-
employment. These services differ significantly from the other tracks
and require substantial manpower.
Create a national specialty team for retroactive
inductions, which typically require 10-20 hours of work per case.
End mandatory overtime for VRCs and instead, offer it on
a volunteer basis.
Ensure the new case management system, the Readiness and
Employment System (RES), is ready for full deployment. Several IT
projects totaling millions of dollars have already failed to improve
VR&E delivery. Thus, the VA must be more careful about this latest
effort. Years of thoughtful development went into the new RES, and we
must do everything we can to ensure the national rollout is a success.
The bottom line is VR&E can be improved, but it will take
innovative and intentional actions to move the needle on veteran
outcomes.
PVA and the VR&E Program
At a subcommittee oversight hearing in 2018, our Chief Policy
Officer, Heather Ansley, testified on VR&E and stressed the importance
of continued collaboration with public and private partners for the
program. PVA's Veteran Career Program (VCP), formerly known as PAVE, is
staffed by VRCs who provide one-on-one career counseling to all
veterans, transitioning service members, spouses, and caregivers. Our
VCP team has long worked alongside the VR&E program; however, in recent
months, something has changed within VR&E, and our VCP staff are seeing
it firsthand.
For a veteran to begin the VR&E program, they must complete VA Form
20-1902w, which is used to determine eligibility and the specific
employment and training needs of veterans. At the top of the form, it
states that it is intended to be completed during the comprehensive
initial evaluation conducted by a VRC. However, our career program
staff have helped several veterans fill out this form, which is now
expected to be completed by the veteran before a VRC can even schedule
the initial intake call. An effective intake appointment is usually
scheduled for an hour; yet, we hear from veterans that some VRCs are
only offering a 20-minute phone call for these critical appointments.
That is unacceptable. A veteran's service-connected disabilities might
make it difficult or impossible for them to complete this form to even
receive an evaluation.
Our career program staff are even helping VRCs do their jobs,
especially new counselors who have not received the appropriate
training. Because of the experience of many of our VCP staff, newer
VRCs know they are a reliable resource to help them navigate unfamiliar
systems. This becomes especially true when discussing the complexities
of the IL track, which could take several hours of administrative work
just for the initial intake and approval.
We are concerned that the VR&E program is at a dangerous tipping
point. We fear that counselors will choose to leave the VA, leaving the
program in an even worse situation. Our career program staff feel that
VA counselors are being placed in an untenable situation, resulting in
veterans being denied enrollment in VR&E. Veterans may even choose to
give up on a program they are eligible for because of the significant
barriers to entry. The current situation cannot continue.
Congress's refusal to fund the VR&E program at an appropriate level
and VA's inability to know what the needs of the program are
nationally, result in veterans not receiving proper assistance. The VA
must make every reasonable effort to help veterans access their
benefits. The growing trend of VA relying on veterans to provide
additional information to access their earned benefits is becoming
alarming, when, historically, this was done in partnership with VA
staff. This is especially true in the case of PVA members who are some
of the most catastrophically disabled veterans the VA cares for. VRCs
must be able to spend the appropriate amount of time and attention on
complex cases.
During the 2018 hearing mentioned earlier, Chief Policy Officer,
Heather Ansley, wrote in her testimony: ``With the reality of
continuing budgetary constraints, it is unclear when, if ever, VR&E may
have the counselors and other resources necessary to adequately assist
the increasing number of veterans who are seeking VR&E services each
year.'' Here we are again, discussing caseloads being too high and the
administrative burden being too great, yet there seems to be no
measurable progress in ensuring that veterans are served by a properly
resourced system.
It is our hope to continue working with this subcommittee,
Congress, the VA, and other stakeholders to ensure the sustainability
of the VR&E program. Thank you again for the opportunity to share our
views on the VR&E program, and I welcome any questions you may have.
Information Required by Rule XI 2(g) of the House of Representatives
Pursuant to Rule XI 2(g) of the House of Representatives, the
following information is provided regarding Federal grants and
contracts.
Fiscal Year 2026
Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of National Veterans Sports
Programs & Special Events--Grant to support rehabilitation sports
activities--$368,500.
Fiscal Year 2025
Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of National Veterans Sports
Programs & Special Events--Grant to support rehabilitation sports
activities--$502,000.
Fiscal Year 2023
Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of National Veterans Sports
Programs & Special Events--Grant to support rehabilitation sports
activities--$479,000.
Disclosure of Foreign Payments
Paralyzed Veterans of America is largely supported by donations
from the general public. However, in some very rare cases we receive
direct donations from foreign nationals. In addition, we receive
funding from corporations and foundations which in some cases are U.S.
subsidiaries of non-U.S. companies.
Statements for the Record
----------
Prepared Statement of Veterans Education Success
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
Subcommittee:
We thank you for the opportunity to present this statement for
consideration for this hearing. Veterans Education Success is a
nonprofit organization with the mission of advancing higher education
success for veterans, service members, and military families, and
protecting the integrity and promise of the GI Bill and other Federal
education programs.
In this statement, we address this timely and important hearing
topic, ``Bounce Houses, Drones, and Massage Chairs: A Review of VA's
Purchase History in the Veteran Readiness and Employment Program.''
As outlined in our previous statements to Congress, we have
continued to receive complaints from veterans about Veteran Readiness
and Employment (VR&E).\1\, \2\, \3\ Recent
complaints continue to tell the story, including these core issues:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Veterans Education Success, ``VES Written Statement on
Evaluating the Effectiveness of VA Vocational Rehabilitation and
Employment Programs Before the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity'' (Jun. 4, 2019), https://
vetsedsuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/VES_SFR_VRE_06032019-
1.pdf.
\2\ Veterans Education Success, ``Our Statement for the Record on
the Topic of `Veteran Readiness and Employment: Is VA Succeeding?' ''
(Sept. 15, 2022), https://vetsedsuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/
VES-SFR-VRE-Hearing-HVAC-EO-September-15-2022.pdf.
\3\ Veterans Education Success, ``Our Statement for the Record on
the Topic of `Examining the Effectiveness of the Veterans Readiness and
Employment (VR&E) Program' '' (Dec. 11, 2024), https://
vetsedsuccess.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/Statement-For-the-Record-
VRE-HVAC-EO-Dec-2 024.pdf.
A. Veterans feel VR&E and its counselors steer them away from high-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
quality programs or push them to enroll in low-quality programs.
Many veterans have told us that VR&E counselors steer them away
from top colleges and toward low-quality online programs. One recent
veteran, a 100 percent disabled 12-year service member, was denied
approval for an Ivy League business school. The counselor dismissed it
as too expensive despite its clear career advantages and the likelihood
of higher earnings. Veterans find the approval process arbitrary, as
the same schools are approved for others.
B. Veterans complain that applying for and using VR&E benefits is too
difficult; counselors have denied their admission to the VR&E program,
denied their education program, or refused to cover certain
programmatic costs without a reasonable explanation, causing tremendous
stress.
One veteran was denied funding for essential coursework materials,
including a laptop, with no apparent reason beyond a vague claim of
insufficient funds. Others report difficulty using VR&E for graduate or
professional degrees, with counselors blocking doctoral programs and
instead approving degrees that do not align with their disabilities or
vocational goals. Some counselors improperly decide that advanced
degrees are unnecessary, even after veterans have already started their
programs. Many veterans believe counselors lack training to assess how
disabilities impact career options.
C. VR&E counselors are often challenging to reach and do not provide
timely information and responses to veterans.
Veterans frequently report unresponsive, incompetent, or even
antagonistic counselors who seem more focused on disqualifying them
than helping. Some are repeatedly reassigned counselors, receiving
conflicting guidance and decisions. Many worry about retaliation.
One veteran considered withdrawing from VR&E entirely after a year
without a response from his counselor. A medically retired Army veteran
struggled for over 6 months to even start the program.
Based on the issues addressed above, we make the following
recommendations for the Committees' consideration:
Staff Ratio. Reduce the maximum client-to-counselor ratio
from 125 to 85 to ensure veterans receive timely, individualized
support. While VA has worked to reduce this number, 125 remains too
high for counselors to address veterans' needs adequately, and veterans
continue to report unresponsive counselors.
Counseling Consistency. Require increased training for
VR&E counselors to ensure consistent, high-quality guidance. Too many
veterans are steered into low-quality schools while others are approved
for top-tier institutions. Counselors should be trained to avoid
recommending schools with Federal caution flags or law enforcement
actions. They should be empowered to approve graduate degrees when
needed to help veterans achieve their vocational goals. Additional
training and explicit guidance would improve program delivery and the
veteran experience.
System Modernization. Continue to improve and modernize
the VR&E case management system to prevent payment delays and reduce
administrative burdens. Given the financial hardships many veterans
face, timely payments are critical. We commend the e-VA Document
Repository and Automation Initiative, which significantly reduces the
burden on both veterans and counselors by streamlining required
documentation.
Housing Allowance Parity. Establish a Monthly Housing
Allowance (MHA) for VR&E students at rates comparable to the Post-9/11
GI Bill to keep pace with rising living costs.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ Veterans Education Success, ``Statement for the Record, House
Committee on Veterans' Affairs Economic Opportunity Subcommittee
Hearing, Getting Veterans to Work after COVID-19'' (Jul. 21, 2020),
https://vetsedsuccess.org/our-sfr-for-july-21-hvac-economic-
opportunity-subcommittee-hearing-getting-veterans-to-work-after-covid-
19/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We thank the Subcommittee for its attention to this critical issue
and consideration of these recommendations. We will continue to provide
feedback based on what we hear from the veterans we work with on an
ongoing basis.
Conclusion
Veterans Education Success sincerely appreciates the opportunity to
provide our input and expertise on this topic. The higher education
industry continues to evolve in these dynamic times, and we emphasize
the importance of maintaining high standards. Student veterans,
taxpayers, and Congress must expect the best outcomes from the use of
hard-earned GI Bill benefits.
We look forward to working with you on these solutions and are
grateful for the continued opportunities to collaborate further.
Information Required by Rule XI, Clause 2(g)(4) of the House of
Representatives and the Rules of the House Committee on Veterans'
Affairs
Pursuant to Rule XI, clause 2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives,
Veterans Education Success has not received any Federal grants in
Fiscal Year 2026, nor has it received any Federal grants in the two
previous Fiscal Years.
Information Required by the Rules of the House Committee on Veterans'
Affairs Regarding Foreign Government and Foreign Adversary Funding
Pursuant to the Rules of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs,
and consistent with the definitions set forth in P.L. 118-50, Division
H, Sec. 2(g)(1), Veterans Education Success has not received any
contracts, grants, or payments originating with a foreign government, a
foreign adversary-controlled entity, or an entity or country of
particular concern.
Prepared Statement of Abe Hamadeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Our government has a sacred obligation to be a faithful steward of
every dollar it takes from the American people. Taxpayers work hard for
that money, and they trust us not to squander it. When Washington
breaks that trust, it is the job of this Committee to stand up and say
so. Waste, fraud, and abuse are not abstractions. They are a betrayal.
And of all the ways the Federal Government can betray the public trust,
none is more offensive than wasting a single penny meant for the men
and women who wore the uniform. A penny diverted from a disabled
veteran is the worst kind of abuse there is.
That is why we are here today. The VR&E program exists for one
reason: to help disabled veterans return to work and reclaim their
independence. That is a promise America made, and it is a promise worth
keeping. But this Committee has uncovered purchases inside this program
that are flat-out indefensible. $15,500 for a single massage chair.
$50,000 in fish hatchery supplies... for ONE veteran. $23,827 on bounce
houses. A $266,000 laptop order. And here is the real kicker: 189
individual plans exceeding $100,000 apiece, with no meaningful
oversight of the contracts being written. A program on pace to hit $4.7
billion by Fiscal Year 2027 cannot be run like a slush fund, and a 45
percent re-entry rate after [QUOTE] ``successful'' completion is not
success--it is a revolving door. Arizona veterans and the taxpayers
footing the bill deserve better. It's time someone minds the store.
[all]