[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                BUILDING CAPACITY: REDUCING GOVERNMENT 
                     ROADBLOCKS TO HOUSING SUPPLY
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               ----------                              

                            DECEMBER 3, 2025

                               ----------                              

                           Serial No. 119-47

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

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                           www.govinfo.gov
                           
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-575 PDF               WASHINGTON : 2026
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                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                    FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Chairman

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan, Vice        MAXINE WATERS, California, Ranking 
    Chairman                             Member
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas, Vice 
PETE SESSIONS, Texas                     Ranking Member
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota                 DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                AL GREEN, Texas
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin               JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    Carolina                         JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             JUAN VARGAS, California
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
YOUNG KIM, California                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          RITCHIE TORRES, New York
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska                 NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas             CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
ANDREW OGLES, Tennessee              JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   SAM LICCARDO, California
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TROY DOWNING, Montana
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina
                      Ben Johnson, Staff Director
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                      Wednesday, December 3, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Hon. French Hill, Chairman of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from Arkansas..................     1
Hon. Maxine Waters, Ranking Member of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from California................     3

                               STATEMENTS

Hon. Mike Flood, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Housing and 
  Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Nebraska.................     4
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Housing and Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Missouri.....     4

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Kevin Sears, Immediate Past President, National Association 
  of Realtors (NAR)..............................................     5
    Prepared Statement...........................................     8
Ms. Julie Smith, Chief Administrative Officer, Bozzuto, on Behalf 
  of The National Multifamily Housing Council, The National 
  Apartment Association, and The Real Estate Technology and 
  Transformation Center..........................................    19
    Prepared Statement...........................................    21
Mr. Tobias Peter, Senior Fellow and Co-Director, American 
  Enterprise Institute Housing Center............................    34
    Prepared Statement...........................................    36
Ms. Nikitra Bailey, Executive Vice President, National Fair 
  Housing Alliance...............................................   107
    Prepared Statement...........................................   109

                                APPENDIX

                   MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Hon. Barry Loudermilk:
    National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM)   228
Hon. John W. Rose:
    Manufactured Housing Institute (MHI).........................   230
Hon. Monica De La Cruz:
    Housing group in support of H.R. 6132........................   232
Hon. Mike Flood:
    International Code Council (ICC), dated December 2, 2025.....   233
    American Property Casualty Insurance Association (APCIA), 
      dated December 3, 2025.....................................   237
    Coalition statement from the National Taxpayers Union and 
      other Conservative advocacy organizations, dated December 
      2, 2025....................................................   241
    The American Institute of Architects (AIA)...................   243
Hon. Maxine Waters:
    Grounded Solutions Network...................................   245
    Habitat for Humanity.........................................   247
    The National Community Stabilization Trust (NCST)............   251
    The National Low Income Housing Coalition (NLIHC)............   259

                 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Written responses to question for the record from Mr. Kevin Sears
    Representative Bill Foster...................................   271
    Representative Brittany Pettersen............................   273
Written responses to question for the record from Ms. Julie Smith
    Representative Bill Foster...................................   275
    Representative Brittany Pettersen............................   276
Written responses to question for the record from Mr. Tobias 
  Peter
    Representative Bill Foster...................................   278
Written responses to question for the record from Ms. Nikitra 
  Bailey
    Representative Bill Foster...................................   280
    Representative Brittany Pettersen............................   283

                              LEGISLATION

H.R. 638, the Housing Temperature Safety Act of 2025.............   286
H.R. 1078, the Respect State Housing Laws Act....................   294
H.R. 2362, the VA Home Loan Awareness Act........................   296
H.R. 2840, the Housing Supply Frameworks Act.....................   298
H.R. 3774, the HUD Accountability Act of 2025....................   311
H.R. 4385, the Helping More Families Save Act....................   314
H.R. 4568, the Supporting Upgraded Property Projects and Lending 
  for Yards (SUPPLY) Act.........................................   324
H.R. 4646, the Whistleblower Protection Act of 2025..............   330
H.R. 4659, the Identifying Regulatory Barriers to Housing Supply 
  Act............................................................   332
H.R. 4660, the Unlocking Housing Supply Through Streamlined and 
  Modernized Reviews Act.........................................   339
H.R. 4810, the BUILD Housing Act.................................   347
H.R. 4989, the Streamlining Rural Housing Act of 2025............   350
H.R. 5077, the Strengthening Housing Supply Act of 2025..........   354
H.R. 5263, To require approval from the Secretary of Housing and 
  Urban Development for any Federal manufactured home and safety 
  standards, and for other purposes..............................   356
H.R. 5429, the HUD-USDA-VA Interagency Coordination Act..........   359
H.R. 5577, the NFIP Continuation Act of 2026.....................   362
H.R. 5878, the HOME Reform Act of 2025...........................   364
H.R. 5907, To authorize the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to award grants to eligible entities to select pre-
  reviewed designs of covered structures of mixed-income housing 
  for use in the jurisdiction of the eligible entity.............   378
H.R. 5913, the Community Investment and Prosperity Act...........   384
H.R. 6132, To modify the multifamily loan limits under title II 
  of the National Housing Act....................................   386
H.R. 6269, To require the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to conduct a review of Federal Housing 
  Administration construction financing programs to identify 
  barriers to the use of modular home methods, and for other 
  purposes.......................................................   394
H.R. 6293, the Expansion of Attainable Homeownership Through 
  Manufactured Housing Act of 2025...............................   398
H.R. --------, the Housing for America's Middle-Class Act of 2025   407
H.R. --------, To direct the Comptroller General of the United 
  States to conduct a study that identifies options to remove 
  barriers and improve housing for persons who are elderly or 
  disabled.......................................................   410
H.R. --------, To direct the Comptroller General of the United 
  States to conduct a study that identifies how many residential 
  dwelling units, and how many dwelling units in public housing, 
  are located within 1 mile of a superfund site..................   412
H.R. --------, the Accountability for NYCHA Act of 2025..........   414
H.R. --------, To amend the Housing Act of 1949 to make 
  modifications to loans and grants for minor improvements to 
  farm housing and buildings, and to make modifications to income 
  eligibility for such loans and grants..........................   420
H.R. --------, To amend the Housing Act of 1949 to require an 
  annual report on rural housing programs........................   422
H.R. --------, To require the Comptroller General of the United 
  States to submit to the Congress a report on the use of 
  technology by the Rural Housing Service........................   424
H.R. --------, To amend the Housing Act of 1949 to clarify that 
  accessory dwelling units which are leased qualify for certain 
  loan guarantees under section 502 of such Act, and for other 
  purposes.......................................................   426
H.R. --------, To require the Secretary of Agriculture to submit 
  to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the 
  Senate and the Committee on Financial Services of the House of 
  Representatives a report with respect to the application 
  process under section 502 and 504 of the Housing Act of 1949, 
  and for other purposes.........................................   429
H.R. --------, To require the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to require public housing agencies to disclose 
  contracts entered into, and for other purposes.................   432
H.R. --------, To require the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to establish Federal guidelines for point-access 
  block buildings, and for other purposes........................   434
H.R. --------, To require Federal monitors and receivers of 
  public housing agencies to testify before the Committee on 
  Financial Services of the House of Representatives and the 
  Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate.   438
H.R. --------, To exempt from the requirements of NEPA the 
  provision of certain assistance for the construction or 
  modification of residential housing on infill sites, and for 
  other purposes.................................................   440
H.R. --------, To amend the National Housing Act to require that 
  certain mortgagors be provided with a deed assurance document 
  (Waters).......................................................   444
H.R. --------, To require the Comptroller General of the United 
  States to conduct a study that examines the cost and benefits 
  of a Federal uniform residential building code.................   446
H.R. --------, To require the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to submit to the Committee on Banking, Housing, and 
  Urban Affairs of the Senate and the Committee on Financial 
  Services of the House of Representatives a report with respect 
  to incentivizing small dollar mortgages, and for other purposes   448
H.R. --------, To amend the Housing and Community Development Act 
  of 1976 to require grantees under such Act to maintain a 
  database of land...............................................   453
H.R. --------, To require the Secretary of Housing and Urban 
  Development to establish a grant program to assist in housing 
  planning activities, and for other purposes....................   455
H.R. --------, the Build Housing More Affordably Act.............   461

 
  BUILDING CAPACITY: REDUCING GOVERNMENT ROADBLOCKS TO HOUSING SUPPLY

                              ----------                              


                      Wednesday, December 3, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:11 a.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. J. French Hill 
[chairman of the committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Hill, Sessions, Huizenga, Wagner, 
Barr, Williams of Texas, Loudermilk, Davidson, Rose, Steil, 
Timmons, Stutzman, Meuser, Kim, Garbarino, Fitzgerald, Flood, 
Lawler, De La Cruz, Nunn, McClain, Salazar, Downing, 
Haridopolos, Moore, Waters, Velazquez, Sherman, Meeks, Scott, 
Lynch, Green, Cleaver, Himes, Foster, Beatty, Vargas, Gonzalez, 
Casten, Pressley, Tlaib, Torres, Garcia, Williams of Georgia, 
Bynum, and Liccardo.
    Chairman Hill. The Committee on Financial Services will 
come to order.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the committee at any time.
    Today's hearing is entitled ``Building Capacity: Reducing 
Government Roadblocks to Housing Supply.''
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
within which to submit extraneous material to the chair for 
inclusion in the record.
    I now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRENCH HILL, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
  COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                            ARKANSAS

    Today's hearing will explore the various factors 
contributing to the high cost of housing and examine the tools 
the Federal Government might wield in order to alleviate some 
of that burden.
    Over the last decade, housing affordability has rapidly 
become one of the main issues facing our American families, 
which have been primarily driven by a persistent lack of supply 
needed to meet a growing demand. The delta between supply and 
demand has resulted in an affordability challenge many 
Americans face in looking to purchase a home.
    This committee has held numerous hearings on critical 
aspects of this issue, including barriers to building middle-
class housing, better utilization of modular and manufactured 
housing to meet urgent needs, and the unique housing challenges 
that rural America faces.
    More recently, our Housing and Insurance Subcommittee held 
a hearing reviewing the urgent need to modernize the Federal 
housing construction program, the HOME Program, to make it the 
most effective and responsive to today's market demands.
    Each of these discussions has highlighted a severe, 
decades-long shortfall in housing inventory that has hindered 
many Americans' access to affordable homes. Our goal today is 
to chart a path toward greater development capacity and a more 
simplified regulatory framework.
    Regulatory complexity, particularly those locally designed 
and approved rules, remains a significant obstacle for property 
owners and builders, complicating the development process and 
often resulting in delays and increased expenses.
    Rather than helping development, overburdensome building 
regulations have made it nearly impossible for many housing 
providers to navigate a maze of Federal, State, and local 
rules, leading to less housing development across the Nation.
    Likewise, homebuilders and hopeful homebuyers are being 
crushed by the tailwinds of the 40-year high in inflation 
brought about by trillions in new spending from the Biden 
Administration and excessive laxity on the part of the Federal 
Reserve in late 2020 and 2021.
    This inflationary spike elevated the cost per square foot, 
pushed down real incomes, contributed to higher insurance 
premiums and, obviously, higher interest rates as the Federal 
Reserve (Fed), behind the curve, fought to overcome these 
errors. Inflation is down to 3 percent from its ugly peak of 9 
percent in 2022.
    In line with the committee's ``Make Community Banking Great 
Again'' agenda, committee Republicans have been working 
alongside the Trump Administration to ensure that community 
banks remain viable, competitive, and able to serve their local 
needs to combat rising housing costs. Greater capital, better 
deposit funding, and lower compliance costs mean greater credit 
availability by our banks for our construction industry.
    We are committed to finding new ways to foster a 
homebuilding and buying environment that is conducive to supply 
growth and prudent lending practices. Our focus today is not 
about expanding government control; it is about how our 
government can work through to cutting red tape that is 
stifling innovation and discouraging investment in housing 
projects.
    My Republican colleagues and I understand that the first 
step in creating a well-functioning housing market starts with 
streamlining regulatory processes and eliminating redundant 
layers of bureaucracy. By doing so, we can create a more 
predictable environment for builders, lenders, buyers, and 
renters.
    After we take feedback from today's hearing, we plan to 
hold a markup later this month on a package of housing and 
banking reform solutions for our Nation's housing challenges.
    I want to thank our witnesses, and I look forward to our 
discussion today.
    I now recognize the ranking member of the committee, Ms. 
Waters, for 4 minutes for an opening statement.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MAXINE WATERS, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
  COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    The cost of living is skyrocketing, and working-class 
families are struggling to pay their rent and mortgages and 
what is Donald Trump doing to solve this crisis? Raising 
housing costs.
    He is imposing tariffs on lumber and other building 
materials, gutting the key civil-rights protections meant to 
end housing discrimination, and unleashing masked Immigration 
and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents on American cities, 
wreaking havoc on families and communities and fueling labor 
shortages at places like home construction sites.
    Now Trump wants to gut permanent supportive housing 
funding, which would force 170,000 people back onto the 
streets--a move that will significantly harm people with 
disabilities, veterans, survivors of domestic violence, and 
women with children.
    Mr. Chairman, I do not have to tell you how severe the 
housing crisis has become. As it stands, nearly 800,000 people 
are experiencing homelessness, and most American families use 
the bulk of their paycheck for their rent or mortgage. This is 
a serious problem and requires serious solutions.
    Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) Director Bill Pulte, 
who spends more time launching baseless political witch hunts 
than solving the housing crisis, has proposed a 50-year 
mortgage. This is the most preposterous housing policy anyone 
has ever come up with. What is the next brilliant idea? A 100-
year mortgage? We should not expect any progress on the housing 
crisis when people in charge are unserious and out of their 
depth.
    Committee Democrats are serious about solving this crisis. 
Right after the administration proposed gutting funding for 
permanent supportive housing, I demanded the Housing and Urban 
Development (HUD) Secretary Scott Turner to reverse the 
decision in a letter that I led with 52 other House Democrats.
    At the same time, my Democratic colleagues and I in the 
House and Senate have worked in a bipartisan manner to get the 
Renewing Opportunity in the American Dream (ROAD) to Housing 
bill included in the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), 
a commonsense legislative package that would chip away at the 
crisis while we all work in good faith to reach a deal.
    I know there have been some concerns, and, Mr. Hill, I know 
that some of your concerns are my concerns and I know that you 
walked away from the negotiations. Well, while I am 
disappointed in that decision, I am encouraged that you want to 
work with me and committee Democrats to finally get something 
done on housing. What you just said this morning is very 
encouraging.
    So I am looking forward to working with you to solve the 
problem that we all know exists. We must move quickly, because, 
while Congress bickers, rents are still going up, home prices 
are still rising, and mortgage rates are still too high.
    I also encourage my friends on the opposite side of the 
aisle to not play around with the margins of housing policy. 
Let us go big.
    While the ROAD is an important and incremental step, we 
need serious and substantial government intervention to build 
the housing units needed to end this crisis. The private sector 
cannot do it alone and certainly will not build housing for our 
lowest-income families, so we have to be bold with this.
    My housing package is just that. It is the single-largest 
and most comprehensive investment in affordable housing in U.S. 
history and will finally tackle the affordable housing crisis, 
end homelessness, and eliminate the racial wealth and ownership 
gap.
    So I look forward to today's conversation and working with 
my colleagues to get a bipartisan housing bill passed into law. 
It is going to cost some money. Please do not start telling me 
we are going to do it without paying for it. We have to pay for 
it.
    I yield back.

 STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE FLOOD, CHAIRMAN OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
   HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEBRASKA

    Chairman Hill. The gentlewoman yields back.
    I now recognize the chair of the Subcommittee on Housing 
and Insurance, Mr. Flood, for 1 minute for an opening 
statement.
    Mr. Flood. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 
especially thank you for your leadership on housing.
    Housing costs, as we have noted today, have been rising for 
the last several years, and this problem is taking its toll. 
Housing affordability affects everyone. For example, the 
American Dream of buying a home is out of reach for many of our 
country's young people. Did you know the median age of a first-
time homebuyer today is, astoundingly, 40 years old?
    The reason for this affordability problem is simple: We are 
not building enough homes in this country to meet the demand. 
We have a 5-million-unit shortage. This committee and the 
Housing and Insurance Subcommittee have been working on 
solutions that will cut costs, remove government barriers, and 
unleash more building across the country. This hearing today is 
the latest step in our work this year.
    You will note that almost every hearing this subcommittee 
has had has been on housing this year. We have a wide range of 
bills that have been noticed today that will address different 
aspects of the problem.
    I am excited and honored to be a part of this process and 
have enjoyed working with my colleague, Mr. Cleaver, from the 
great State of Missouri. I look forward to our markup at the 
end of this month.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back.
    I recognize the ranking member of our Subcommittee on 
Housing and Insurance, Mr. Cleaver.
    You are recognized for a 1-minute opening statement.

   STATEMENT OF HON. EMANUEL CLEAVER, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE 
                         FROM MISSOURI

    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I have been on this committee for over 20 years, and there 
are at least two things I have found to be unquestionably true. 
One, housing affordability has worsened over the past two 
decades, and it creates an increased affordable housing supply 
need. Number two, there is always a reason for Congress not to 
work together to get something done.
    Congress now has perhaps a once-in-a-generation opportunity 
to advance housing legislation of consequence. This includes 
ROAD to Housing, which includes House legislation such as my 
own and dozens of other bills under discussion today.
    It is right to ask whether Congress can overcome harmful 
administrative action, but I have learned that the reasons not 
to work across the aisle will always be there, and so will the 
need.
    I thank all the members of this committee who are working 
in a bipartisan manner and look forward to open debate on the 
legislation before us today.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back.
    Today, we welcome the testimony of Mr. Kevin Sears, 
immediate past president of the National Association of 
Realtors; Ms. Julie Smith, chief administrative officer of 
Bozzuto, here on behalf of the National Multifamily Housing 
Council, the National Apartment Association, and the Real 
Estate Technology and Transformation Center; Mr. Tobias Peter, 
senior fellow and co-director at American Enterprise 
Institute's (AEI's) Housing Center; and Nikitra Bailey, 
executive vice president of the National Fair Housing Alliance.
    We thank all of you for being with us today.
    Each of you will be recognized for 5 minutes to give an 
oral presentation of your testimony.
    Without objection, your written statements will be made 
part of the record.
    Mr. Sears, we are going to start with you. You have 5 
minutes for your presentation.

 STATEMENT OF KEVIN SEARS, IMMEDIATE PAST PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
                    ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS

    Mr. Sears. Chairman Hill, Ranking Member Waters, members of 
the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify today.
    My name is Kevin Sears. I am the 2024-2025 president of the 
National Association of Realtors. I am also a practicing real 
estate broker in Springfield, Massachusetts, where I have 
worked for over 30 years helping families and individuals 
achieve the American dream of home ownership.
    Today, I am here on behalf of our nearly 1.5 million 
Realtor members representing nearly every ZIP code across this 
great Nation.
    Every day, Realtors watch families struggle to find homes 
that they can afford. These are families who have done 
everything right--they have saved for years, they have stable 
jobs, they have good credit--but buying a home is slipping out 
of reach because they cannot find one they can afford. We 
constantly see teachers, nurses, firefighters, police officers 
priced out of the very communities that they serve.
    This is not anecdotal. We surveyed real estate firms from 
across America, and nearly 60 percent of them told us that 
housing affordability is their single biggest challenge. The 
lack of affordability in the market is a systemic crisis 
locking entire generations out of home ownership.
    At the root of America's affordability crisis is an 
undeniable fact: Our Nation has a severe lack of housing 
supply.
    The numbers tell a stark story. There were more homes 
available for purchase in 1995 than there are today, although 
there are millions more Americans. After the Great Recession, 
we experienced 14 consecutive years of severe underproduction, 
creating a shortage, as Chairman Flood said, of nearly 5 
million homes nationwide.
    The impact on families is profound. First-time homebuyers 
have fallen to a record low of 21 percent of purchases. 
According to National Association of REALTORS's (NAR's) data, 
the median first-time homebuyer is now 40 years old.
    Let that sink in. An entire generation is waiting more than 
a decade longer than their parents did to buy homes. Many may 
never get there at all and this 10-year delay translates to 
more than $150,000 of lost wealth--equity that could help them 
educate their children or support them in their retirement.
    The housing shortage also drives rents to record highs, 
limiting ability for families to save for home ownership. 
According to NAR's 2025 analysis, the median net worth of a 
U.S. homeowner is approximately $430,000, while the median net 
worth of a renter is $10,000. So what that means is that a 
typical homeowner is 43 times wealthier than a typical renter.
    This shortage is a result of specific policy choices and 
market barriers that we can and must address.
    Homeowners are increasingly locked in place. The capital-
gains exclusion, set in 1997 at $250,000 for a single owner and 
$500,000 for married couples, has never been updated, even as 
home prices have surged.
    At the same time, rising interest rates mean that 
homeowners who secured a 3-to 4-percent mortgage rate just a 
few years ago may not be able to afford today's rates if they 
were to move.
    Millions of households with Federal Housing Administration 
(FHA), United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), and 
Veterans Affairs (VA) loans are also staying put rather than 
giving up their low mortgage rates.
    Improving buyers' ability to use existing assumable loans 
would allow them to take over a seller's lower mortgage rate, 
increase mobility, and unlock more homes on the market.
    Builders face barriers at every level of government--
restrictive zoning, unpredictable permitting and rent control 
at the local level, along with Federal red tape and high 
financing costs, all of which slow construction and limit 
supply of affordable and rental homes.
    Realtors have taken action. We are working to empower 
communities to remove barriers, expand supply, and help our 
clients achieve the American dream of home ownership but local 
action alone cannot close the housing shortage. Federal 
leadership is essential.
    We recommend the bipartisan leadership--we commend the 
bipartisan leadership of this committee, particularly 
Subcommittee Chair Flood and Ranking Member Cleaver, who have 
championed practical solutions.
    We must build on this momentum by unlocking existing homes 
through modernizing the capital-gains policy, boosting new 
construction, Federal and State local reforms, and expanding 
financing for affordable and innovative housing.
    My written testimony details the bipartisan legislation to 
do just that, including the More Homes on the Market Act, the 
Housing Supply Frameworks Act, and the HOME Reform Act, and 
other solutions this committee has championed.
    The housing supply crisis demands action at every level of 
the government. This crisis is not a red or blue issue; it is a 
red, white, and blue issue. NAR and our members stand ready to 
work with Congress and the administration to deliver real 
solutions.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sears follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back.
    Ms. Smith, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
presentation.

    STATEMENT OF JULIE SMITH, CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, 
BOZZUTO, ON BEHALF OF THE NATIONAL MULTIFAMILY HOUSING COUNCIL, 
    THE NATIONAL APARTMENT ASSOCIATION, AND THE REAL ESTATE 
              TECHNOLOGY AND TRANSFORMATION CENTER

    Ms. Smith. Chair Hill, Ranking Member Waters, and members 
of the committee, my name is Julie Smith. I am the chief 
administrative officer of the Bozzuto Group. Founded in 1988, 
Bozzuto develops, builds, and operates over 130,000 apartments 
nationwide.
    This morning, I am here on behalf of the 95,000 members of 
the National Multifamily Housing Council, the National 
Apartment Association, and the Real Estate Technology and 
Transformation Center.
    Today, policymakers, housers, and, most critically, the 
residents we serve agree on two things: One, we do not have 
enough housing; and two, now is the time to address our 
Nation's housing crisis.
    We are grateful for today's hearing, and we hope it will 
result in further consideration of legislation focused on 
stimulating housing supply.
    Our goal is to ensure that apartment providers can meet the 
long-term housing needs of the 40 million Americans who 
identify as renters. It is time to take meaningful steps to 
ensure that everyone can have a safe and decent place to call 
home at a price they can afford.
    Regrettably, the current economic and regulatory 
environment makes building incredibly difficult, and that is 
unlikely to change without action that makes production more 
economically viable. CoStar reports that multifamily starts 
were down 32 percent year over year in the third quarter of 
2025.
    On the economic front, continued instability poses a 
serious threat to our ability to leverage private capital 
markets necessary to finance new housing. Elevated interest 
rates have served to drive up the cost of building new housing 
and, additionally, operating expenses have risen by an average 
of 5.1 percent annually over the last 5 years.
    The regulatory burden is also inhibiting housing 
production. Many regulations go far beyond ensuring the health 
and well-being of the public, and regulations imposed by all 
levels of government account for an average of 40.6 percent of 
multifamily development costs.
    There is a clear path to solving this challenge. Rental 
housing providers stand ready to help and we ask Congress to 
prioritize and support pro-housing policies that will, in turn, 
ensure greater housing stability and affordability for renters 
of all income levels.
    Congress took a strong step earlier this year by 
substantially enhancing the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit, but 
there is more to do. Several bills within the committee's 
jurisdiction would be particularly impactful in boosting 
housing supply and affordability, and while a full list is 
included in my written statement, I would like to highlight 
three.
    Representatives Flood and Cleaver have introduced the HOME 
Reform Act of 2025 to make it easier and faster to build 
affordable housing. The bill would expand who qualifies for 
home assistance, allow funds to be used for infrastructure, and 
streamline the National Environmental Policy Act and ``Build 
America, Buy America'' requirements.
    The National Multifamily Housing Council (NMHC) is also 
advocating for the bill to let communities use HOME dollars for 
tax abatements and for studies that help remove local barriers 
to building and preserving housing.
    Representatives Flood and Pettersen have introduced 
bipartisan legislation through the Identifying Regulatory 
Barriers to Housing Supply Act, aimed at reducing 
discriminatory land-use rules that restrict housing production.
    The bill would require Community Development Block Grant 
(CDBG) recipients to regularly report how they are addressing 
these barriers and advancing inclusive affordable housing. This 
added transparency is intended to encourage better, more 
equitable local development practices.
    Three, legislation introduced by Representatives Loudermilk 
and Gonzalez through their Respect State Housing Laws Act would 
strike the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security 
(CARES) Act's 30-day-notice-to-vacate requirement and return 
eviction policies back to the State and local levels, where 
they are more effectively administered.
    I would also like to address three other areas where the 
committee has a role to play.
    One, while we have seen stabilization in the property 
insurance market this year, rates remain at historic highs 
after 27 consecutive quarters of rate hikes over the past 7 
years and while insurance is generally State-regulated, we 
encourage Congress to provide long-term reauthorization of the 
National Flood Insurance Program and the Terrorism Risk 
Insurance Act of 2002.
    Two, capital is the lifeblood of the multifamily industry. 
It is critical that policymakers continue to support Fannie Mae 
and Freddie Mac, which play a vital role in financial housing. 
Policymakers must maintain the liquidity they provide and 
retain at least an implicit guarantee; otherwise, there is 
significant risk that borrowing costs will increase.
    Finally, emerging technologies are helping providers 
improve affordability, enhance resident experiences, and 
modernize operations. These innovations are governed by robust 
existing laws and consumer protections ensuring responsible 
use.
    Thank you. I look forward to answering the committee's 
questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Smith follows:]
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    Chairman Hill. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Peter, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral presentation.

   STATEMENT OF TOBIAS PETER, SENIOR FELLOW AND CO-DIRECTOR, 
          AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE HOUSING CENTER

    Mr. Peter. Chair Hill, Ranking Member Waters, members of 
the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    Housing and affordability are real and worsening. Home 
prices have been rising faster than incomes for years. Low-
income households and today's first-time homebuyers now face 
record-high prices and much high interest rates, leaving many 
stuck renting instead of climbing the first rung of the housing 
ladder. This is stunting family formation and economic growth.
    The causes are straightforward. Zoning rules often mandate 
large lots, banning multiple homes on a parcel and putting more 
land off limits, while regulations at every level of government 
add cost and adds complexity. In short, buildable land has 
become scarce and homebuilding expensive. As a result, we now 
face a nationwide shortage of several million homes.
    The good news is that the problem is fixable with the right 
policies, but we must focus on solutions that truly move the 
needle, while avoiding costly unintended consequences.
    The answer is to build more homes on smaller lots because 
land costs are costly, smaller lots mean smaller and more 
attainable homes, reducing costs and increasing the supply of 
family size starter homes.
    Consider that, since 2000, the country has built about 12 
million single-family homes in subdivisions. Had we built them 
on slightly smaller lots instead, we could have roughly 9 
million more homes today, and those homes would be priced about 
15 to 20 percent lower.
    Smaller lots are essential to improving housing supply and 
affordability.
    Zoning and land use that determine these outcomes are 
fundamentally State and local responsibilities, but many States 
have already begun to address these issues by changing minimum 
lot sizes, legalizing townhomes, and allowing homes to be built 
where jobs are.
    I applaud Congress and the sponsors of the ROAD to Housing 
Act of 2025 for recognizing the urgency of housing 
affordability and for including some useful elements, such as 
that target at National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and 
manufactured housing reforms.
    However, ROAD is too Federal, too subsidy-driven, and too 
apartment-centric. Instead, we need a greater focus on family 
size starter homes. ROAD also risks pushing the Federal 
Government deeper into State and local zoning decisions. 
Washington should not override or micromanage these reforms 
that are already underway in many States.
    At the same time, the Federal Government does have powerful 
levers, several of which are squarely within this committee's 
jurisdiction, that can support, accelerate, and reward States 
and local reforms which have unintended consequences.
    First, to spur new home construction, HUD should offer a 
bounty for States when they plat smaller lots, paying for 
results when they achieve this plain and simple goal. This 
would give States a strong incentive to reform while allowing 
them flexibility in how to use these funds.
    HUD should also expand the supply of starter homes by 
adopting targeted FHA mortgage insurance pricing reductions 
tied to modestly sized new homes. These efforts should be 
funded from already-existing HUD grants and programs.
    This committee can also help by accelerating efforts to 
sell underutilized Federal land.
    Second, the committee can help unlock existing homes. HUD 
should phase out FHA's home retention options, partial claims 
in particular, which have ballooned to over 1 million borrowers 
today. Many of these borrowers could sell and walk away with an 
average of over $100,000 in cash while reducing risk to 
taxpayers and freeing up much-needed homes.
    Beyond this committee's direct jurisdiction, Congress can 
further unlock existing homes through targeted tax changes, and 
I highlight several of them in my written testimony.
    Third, Congress must avoid counterproductive approaches, so 
we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. Federal involvement 
in State and local zoning decisions, as proposed in several 
ROAD Act provisions, is counterproductive. It risks poisoning 
the bipartisan momentum underway in many States and pushing 
policy toward subsidy-driven, government-centric solutions that 
crowd out private and smaller builders.
    Also, before expanding Federal housing programs, HUD should 
conduct a full audit of existing subsidies, so we understand 
what we are getting for the more than $100 billion a year we 
spend across HUD, Treasury, and USDA.
    We should also resist demand-side gimmicks. We cannot fix a 
supply side problem by focusing on the demand side. We will 
only bid up the prices of the same limited number of homes.
    In conclusion, each level of government should focus on 
what is properly within its purview to expand supply. The 
``Strong Foundations'' playbook released by the AEI Housing 
Center and the U.S. Chamber of Congress provide practical, 
customized paths to affordability for over 6,000 jurisdictions. 
Across the Nation, by focusing on just four key plays, we could 
add more than 1.6 million additional homes a year without new 
subsidies or Federal micromanagement.
    Over 30 of our case studies show that builders can overcome 
labor shortages and high interest rates, but they cannot 
overcome restrictive government regulations. If we legalize 
homebuilding by allowing more smaller lots, builders will 
deliver the attainable homes American families need.
    Thank you.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Peter follows:]
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    Chairman Hill. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Bailey, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.

STATEMENT OF NIKITRA BAILEY, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL 
                     FAIR HOUSING ALLIANCE

    Ms. Bailey. Chair Hill, Ranking Member Waters, and other 
distinguished members of the United States Committee on 
Financial Services, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
during today's hearing.
    I am Nikitra Bailey, executive vice president of the 
National Fair Housing Alliance (NFHA). NFHA leads the fair-
housing movement by working to eliminate housing discrimination 
and ensure equitable housing opportunities for all people and 
communities. NFHA also represents over 200 community-based, 
nonprofit fair-housing agencies throughout the Nation.
    Our Nation is in the throes of a fair and affordable 
housing crisis, and it is impacting millions of people. The 
actions of the current administration have caused chaos, fear, 
insecurity, dysfunction, and rising prices around the country.
    Instead of providing everyday people with practical 
solutions to the housing crisis, the Trump Administration is 
removing rungs on the ladders of opportunity for essential 
workers, including police, teachers, firefighters, and others 
who dedicate their lives to serving their communities.
    The administration's haphazard executive actions are 
causing serious economic and personal injuries that will 
undermine our already-fragile housing market and, ultimately, 
our Nation.
    Housing is fundamental to the American Dream, and voters 
want elected leaders to quickly implement solutions to ensure 
they can fairly access opportunity and share in our Nation's 
prosperity.
    People are seeking solutions that will drive down the 
skyrocketing cost of housing and provide fair market rents, 
expand fair access to mortgage credit in underserved 
communities, reduce homeowners' insurance costs, and produce 
the development of millions of desperately needed affordable 
housing units.
    The Trump Administration's actions are leaving people 
seeking housing free of discrimination unprotected, including 
disabled veterans, seniors, people with disabilities, families 
with children, survivors of domestic violence, and more.
    Congress established fair housing as a national policy of 
the United States with the passage of the Fair Housing Act of 
1968 after the horrific assassination of Dr. Martin Luther 
King, Jr. Yet, the Trump Administration is dismantling our 
Nation's fair housing and fair lending infrastructure and 
making it costlier for everyday people to afford the American 
Dream despite demands for affordability.
    The administration has failed to live up to its pledge to 
make housing cheaper and increase access to home ownership.
    Prior to the start of the administration, home ownership 
was on an upward trajectory for all communities. The Black 
homeownership rate grew 14 percent. The Asian American and 
Pacific Islander homeownership rate grew nearly 9 percent. The 
Latino homeownership rate grew nearly 5 percent, and White home 
ownership was up by 1.57 percent and those are homeownership 
rates.
    This momentum is being reversed. The United States 
Department of Housing and Urban Development rolled back 
critical fair housing rules, eviscerated the Office of Fair 
Housing and Equal Opportunity, closed field offices, and fired 
whistleblowers. It is leaving renters everywhere vulnerable to 
discrimination, at a time when renters already face soaring 
rents and nowhere to go.
    The Federal Housing Finance Agency has abandoned special-
purpose credit programs that have provided $82 million in 
reduced costs to nearly 60,000 borrowers of all races and 
helped lenders circumvent systemic barriers that limit fair 
credit access for people of color.
    The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau issued a proposal 
to gut a 50-year-old fair lending rule that ensures that women 
can get a loan without needing a male cosponsor.
    The actions are injecting unnecessary risk, locking out the 
people that the health of the housing system depends on and 
over the next 10 years, all future net household growth will be 
from households of color. If they are locked out of the housing 
finance system, the system will fail.
    The Fair Housing Act provides the blueprint to increasing 
our Nation's supply of affordable housing. It is key to 
reforming exclusionary zoning that locks out renters, low-
income people, and people of color from certain neighborhoods. 
It can drive inclusionary practices that permit entry-level 
homeownership opportunities and missing middle housing, 
including condominiums and triplexes, quadplexes, and accessory 
dwelling units.
    Fair housing laws improve people's lives. They also improve 
neighborhoods block by block. These vital protections also 
strengthen our economy and make the Nation more prosperous.
    Now is the time for Congress to increase its oversight of 
the administration's actions so that more people in America do 
not end up homeless.
    Congress must also pass comprehensive legislation with 
supply side and demand-side solutions like the ranking member's 
Housing Crisis Response Act and other measures to ensure that 
the housing needs of people living in rural, urban, and 
suburban communities are met. Only an all-of-the-above strategy 
can truly tackle the crisis.
    Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Bailey follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Hill. Thank you so much.
    We appreciate our panel's contributions to our hearing 
today.
    We will now turn to member questions. I recognize myself 
for 5 minutes for questioning.
    Across our country, families, as we have both, the ranking 
member and I, have noted and you have noted, our families are 
facing housing costs that have really climbed out of reach.
    I outlined several of the macro reasons I believe that cost 
per square foot has gone up, and now they are confronted with 
higher financing costs as a result of the inflation I talked 
about but, also, government subsidies originally intended to 
support households have ended up helping prices rise faster 
than wages, while outdated and duplicative regulations, 
particularly at our State and local areas, have slowed 
development and created a bottleneck that actively prevents 
homes we need from getting built.
    We got to do better, and I believe we can do better and I 
am committed to working with my colleagues across the aisle to 
advance these kinds of meaningful reforms that result in 
increasing supply and responsibly restore more attainable 
housing results in our communities.
    Mr. Sears, you have your experience, your whole career in 
realty, so you know people at all price points in Springfield, 
and there is a supply gap in many communities. What does the 
data tell us about why this gap persists and how that is 
impacting existing inventories and home purchases?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Chairman Hill.
    You asked two parts to the question: The lack in existing 
inventory, I can boil it down to three very specific reasons.
    As I mentioned in my oral testimony, we have underbuilt 
significantly over the last decade and a half since coming out 
of the Great Recession. We also face significant regulatory and 
zoning barriers at the local and State level as well as a 
little bit at the Federal level but, also, higher interest 
rates, the construction costs, delays that can be impacting 
builders has also driven up costs, because there is a time 
value to money, and so when it takes longer, it is going to 
cost more.
    You also asked about home purchasing, and you said 
something very significant. I purchased my first home in 1996 
as a 24-year-old. I paid $83,000 for it. Yesterday, I received 
a text from my 25-year-old son, who is looking to buy a home in 
the Boston area, a starter home. The price? $850,000. Ten times 
as much, in 30 years.
    What has happened in 30 years? A lot has happened, but 
there has also been some stagnation.
    Over 30 years ago, I was a college athlete, a Division I 
athlete. I will not have you guess the sport, but I am going to 
tell you, I was a diver and what did I do with that skill set? 
In the summertime, I worked at a small amusement park, 
Riverside Park.
    Chairman Hill. Yes.
    Mr. Sears. So that was Six Flags New England. I worked in 
the stunt and high-dive show. I used to do high dives from 75 
feet, get lit on fire, and got paid for it.
    I do not do that anymore. A lot has changed in 30 years, 
but what has not changed in 30 years is the fact that the 
capital-gains exclusion has remained stagnant at $250,000 for a 
single person, $500,000 for a married couple. It was not 
indexed for inflation.
    We have significantly underbuilt, as we said.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you----
    Mr. Sears. You probably wonder why I talked about my diving 
career, because I used to get lit on fire and paid for it, as I 
said. What I can tell you is that taught me, getting lit on 
fire--you can never quite prepare yourself for the first time 
you get lit on fire, but what it taught me is not to panic. 
Athletics is a great training ground----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Sears [continuing]. for business, and I was able to 
help people solve these problems, but I have a great concern 
for my children, your children, my grandchildren, who might 
panic, and their inability to be able to purchase a home.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Sears. Appreciate that and 
your views.
    Mr. Peter, both in Ms. Smith's testimony--she talked about 
40-percent-plus cost per unit comes from, essentially, rules, 
regulations, local zoning, land-use restrictions and you talked 
about that Federal policies spending too much time focusing on 
subsidizing demand instead of focusing on these supply 
constraints. I agree, and we all understand that is kind of how 
the system is built here but you talked about accelerating 
local competition and local change.
    Can you name who you think is doing an outstanding job of, 
as you say, putting--if you have a traditional 50-foot lot 
maybe doing a fourplex instead of a single-family? Talk to me 
about who you think is doing a good job on that.
    Mr. Peter. Yes. So we have done over 30 case studies where 
we have studied these examples and Texas just recently passed a 
bill, SB 15, where they are allowing in new residential 
subdivisions smaller lot sizes of 3,000 square feet. So that is 
number one.
    Number two, another example is Seattle. So Seattle in 1994 
allowed single-family, detached homes to be torn down and 
replaced with townhomes on the same parcels. So, over the last 
20 and 30 years, they have torn down 5,000 single-family, 
detached homes and not replaced them with opulent McMansions, 
but they replaced them with four, five, six townhomes in the 
same parcel. As a result, because they have built more 
housing----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you.
    Mr. Peter [continuing]. the housing has been lower-priced.
    Chairman Hill. I hope all of you will respond in writing 
with good examples of how that is working around the country.
    Chairman Hill. With that, let me recognize the ranking 
member, Ms. Waters, for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you. I wish I had 5 days for questions. I 
tell you----
    Chairman Hill. Yes.
    Ms. Waters [continuing]. this is so exciting. You know, I 
am hearing testimony from witnesses brought here by 
Representatives on the opposite side of the aisle that I have 
never heard before.
    Ms. Bailey, if local governments--today's hearing will 
consider my draft bill that would require local governments to 
keep a public, searchable database of undeveloped land that 
they own.
    For far too long, communities have been left in the dark 
while public land sits unused. We should be putting that land 
to use. Without a clear accounting, local officials, 
developers, and the public are missing key opportunities to 
plan and build, and the housing advocates should not have to 
waste precious time trying to track down available housing 
locations that are right in front of them.
    Ms. Bailey, if local governments that receive CDBG funds 
maintained these land databases, what specific opportunities 
could be unlocked for affordable housing production and what do 
we lose when this information is scattered, outdated, or never 
collected at all?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much for the question.
    It provides the opportunity to provide workforce housing so 
that we can ensure that teachers and police and firefighters 
can actually live in the communities where they work.
    Oftentimes, local jurisdictions have a preference for 
single-family development, so we can see the development of 
quadplexes, we can see the development of triplexes, and we can 
see your legislation really solve the Nation's fair and 
affordable housing crisis and be a key solution as part of a 
broader package.
    Your tremendous leadership on the Housing Crisis Response 
Act--$150 billion to address the Nation's fair and affordable 
housing crisis--would be complemented by that legislation, and 
they should move forward together.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    Now to Mr. Sears, Ms. Smith, and Ms. Bailey.
    I appreciate our Senate colleagues who have introduced the 
bipartisan ROAD to Housing package to begin to address our 
Nation's affordable housing crisis. Of course, I urge my 
Republican colleagues to help us include it in NDAA and quickly 
pass it into law, but I believe Congress must do much, much 
more if we are serious about solving this crisis for the 
American people. For decades, HUD programs have chronically 
been underfunded and forced to make do with limited resources.
    When I was chair of this committee, I introduced the 
Housing Crisis Response Act, along with my Ending Homelessness 
Act and the Downpayment Toward Equity Act. This package 
represents the single-largest, most comprehensive investment in 
affordable housing in history.
    So let me ask you directly. In addition to the ROAD to 
Housing bill, can we address the affordable housing crisis 
comprehensively without substantial injection of Federal 
funding?
    Mr. Sears, you first.
    Mr. Sears. Ranking Member Waters, thank you very much for 
the question.
    We, the National Association of Realtors, support your 
bill. Obviously, what it would do is help to cut red tape and 
allow us to build more homes, which would open doors to home 
ownership for many more people.
    You know, affordability is a key issue, and the housing 
supply is part of that. So we support any innovation that could 
be--that comes through this bill in order to help Americans get 
into home ownership.
    Ms. Waters. Okay.
    I guess I am back to Ms. Bailey.
    According to the Bloom---well, did anyone else want to 
respond to that, about funding?
    Ms. Bailey. Sure, ma'am. If I could chime in here.
    Ms. Waters. Yes.
    Ms. Bailey. You are absolutely correct that we need a full 
and comprehensive package.
    If this Congress would follow your leadership--this 
committee already passed meaningful legislation, originally the 
Build Back Better Act, which is now the Housing Crisis Response 
Act. You have put together a very comprehensive package, $150 
billion, that will help prevent homelessness, that will provide 
the type of support to subsidized renders who need it today and 
increase the Housing Choice Voucher Program.
    You have done intentional things to really solve our 
Nation's fair and affordable housing crisis and everything that 
you have proposed today will really help us ensure that we do 
not see additional families end up in homelessness.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    I only have a few minutes left, and I just want to say how 
important it is for all of you to be here today. When we talk 
about what is going on in this country--and we are certainly 
talking about healthcare and Medicaid and all of that--housing 
is the number one crisis in the country, and we need to do 
something substantial about it. Thank you for being here.
    Chairman Hill. The ranking member yields back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Sessions, 
chair of our Oversight Committee. He is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
    I really appreciate you having this hearing today. I think 
both you and Ranking Member Waters agree we have a problem. So 
the question is, what does this committee do to help us focus 
on that problem?
    As a regular part of the National Association of Realtors, 
when they visit me, this is the conversation. When the 
homebuilders visit me, this is part of the conversation.
    I think it has gone away from the problems that we had with 
supply chain to actual rules and regulations, as Mr. Sears has 
talked about, is the problem. Certainly, if you look at 
industry data, it says that government regulations add nearly 
$94,000 to the price of a new single-family home.
    Being from Waco, Texas, I will remember, a few years ago, 
with cities that were struggling to add tax on top of what was 
required for them to prepare for new homes--roads, bridges, 
infrastructure, water pipes, and all these things.
    I think that this panel has brought a country viewpoint of 
this, as opposed to just my viewpoint in Texas, where we have a 
huge housing problem and one that has been talked about--
certainly, Mr. Peter talked about--it is across the country.
    I think we ought to focus on getting more investment money 
into the pot and I do not think that is Federal money. I think 
that is looking at streamlining--and I have talked to Secretary 
Turner about this--streamlining the housing authorities, 
instead of them holding the bulk of the money and them building 
buildings and them controlling the circumstances.
    I think HUD should look at the rules and regulations about 
rebuilding, and what the rules are related to replacing 
existing housing. I tried to do this with Secretary Fudge to no 
advantage 3 years ago, when we suffered taking away current 
housing to build new housing rather than adding to that 
availability.
    Mr. Sears, please tell us, what do you believe is the 
number one thing this committee should do on a bipartisan basis 
to stop the problems that we have with government regulations, 
whether they be Federal Government, State, or city government?
    Mr. Sears. Mr. Sessions, thank you. You nailed it on the 
head. When it costs $100,000, approximately, before the shovel 
gets in the dirt, that is a significant issue, and it leads to 
the affordability crisis.
    The way that I believe this committee and Congress can help 
is by helping incentivizing localities, States, to streamline 
the red tape, their zoning. If there is anything you can do 
with funding, help with infrastructure costs.
    One of the things--and you touched on this. Investors are a 
little reticent when there is a lot of red tape. They need 
certainty that projects are going to be approved and that the 
shovel is going to get in the ground to produce the housing.
    So anything we can do to help with those issues would be 
welcomed by the National Association of Realtors and my 1.5 
million Realtor members.
    Mr. Sessions. In Texas, Mr. Sears--and I am sure Ms. Smith 
knows this--in Texas, there is this huge pent-up demand for 
housing. When interest rates that President Trump is attempting 
to get the Fed to lower--when interest rates fall to a level 
that they need to be, not are but should be, it is going to 
create--I think could create an investment opportunity to 
where, if we do our job here to support Chairman Hill, then 
that means that the investment community will come in and spend 
that money with streamlined opportunity for them.
    I think it is off of a deal that you and the homebuilders 
understand better than I, but an opportunity to control that 
property, make it available today, streamline the red tape, and 
get people their housing today without the Federal Government 
or a housing authority getting in the way of that opportunity.
    Ms. Smith, please tell me more about what you think we 
ought to be doing.
    Ms. Smith. Thank you for the question.
    There are a lot of, sort of, proven strategies that have 
worked. I was talking with a developer who is working on a 
project in DC, right here where we are, last night, and DC has 
put together a lot of incentives to----
    Chairman Hill. Ms. Smith, I am going to ask you to respond 
in writing, if I might.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I think 
that the opportunity for us to see this in writing will enable 
us to approach this on a bipartisan basis.
    Mr. Chairman, I thank you for the time.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Sessions.
    Now the gentlewoman from New York, Ms. Velazquez, the 
ranking member of our House Small Business Committee, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Velazquez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    So I heard from the other side that the Biden-era interest 
rate is responsible for the--one of the roadblocks to housing 
supply. Then I heard $60 billion in regulations.
    I would like to add, $30 billion--and that is, the Trump 
tariffs. According to Brookings, is adding $30 billion to the 
cost of construction of residential homes, including 
multifamily. I did not hear any of the members of the panel 
mention or discuss the impact that tariffs are having on the 
construction of housing.
    Ms. Smith, one of the issues that multifamily property 
owners in my district are currently struggling with is the 
rising cost of insurance premiums, whether they be for general 
liability insurance or for a specific peril.
    For example, a HUD Section 236 property in my district was 
recently forced to increase rents by 6 percent in part because 
of these premium increases.
    As insurance premiums continue to rise, more and more 
property owners are questioning the financial feasibility of 
participating in HUD's programs.
    First, is this a problem HUD multifamily property operators 
have expressed to you? Second, what steps do you think this 
committee should take to reduce premiums and increase coverage 
specifically for HUD-backed property owners?
    Ms. Smith. We could spend a whole lot of time talking about 
insurance. You are absolutely right, insurance has become so, 
so expensive. Just to illustrate that, I can remember a time 
not too long ago when you might spend $300 on insurance per 
unit, and today it might be $1,300 per unit.
    So the availability of insurance and the cost of insurance 
have been extremely high. So anything that the government could 
do to ensure or even subsidize the insurance on properties 
would be very helpful, but it has become a very large part of 
the operating-expense calculation.
    Ms. Velazquez. Thank you.
    Mr. Sears, can you speak to the high cost of insurance, 
whether it be homeowners' insurance or insurance for a specific 
peril like fire or flood, acting as a barrier to home 
ownership?
    Mr. Sears. Certainly, Ms. Velazquez.
    We have seen over the last 5 years--me personally, I have 
seen my own insurance double in cost. On the rental properties 
I own, It has more than doubled. We cannot pass along those 
increases to the tenants. We just cannot. So mom-and-pop 
landlords are really feeling the pinch and when insurance costs 
for homeowners equals or exceeds the cost of their mortgage, we 
know there is a fundamental problem.
    Ms. Velazquez. So, given the constraints of McCarran-
Ferguson, what steps can we here on the Federal level take to 
reduce those premium costs in order to increase home ownership?
    Mr. Sears. Seeing as insurance is regulated at the State 
level, what I believe the Federal Government could do is offer 
incentives, grants, low-interest loans for homeowners to 
reinforce their homes, strengthen their homes, and harden their 
homes against natural disasters. With this being done, interest 
rates--I am sorry--insurance rates should decline.
    Ms. Velazquez. Okay.
    Well, Mr. Chairman, I have been a longtime supporter of our 
State-based system of insurance, but when it comes to HUD-
backed multifamily properties, I think we need to do more here 
at the Federal level to regulate the cost of insurance.
    The Federal Government has a vested financial interest in 
these properties and if the insurance premiums become too 
costly for landlords or, worse, if insurance becomes 
unavailable, we will lose our affordable housing stock. So I 
think that we need to look into that. Otherwise, we are going 
to be here again and again and again discussing this very same 
issue.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. I thank the gentlewoman. She yields back.
    I now recognize the gentlewoman from Missouri, Ann Wagner, 
the chair of our Capital Market Subcommittee.
    Ann, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Wagner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Welcome, witnesses.
    Earlier this year, the National Association of Realtors, or 
NAR, released its ``Housing Affordability and Supply'' report, 
which found that, while housing inventory is increasing, 
middle-income buyers are still having difficulty finding 
affordable homes.
    This difficulty was especially pronounced for prospective 
homebuyers making less than $75,000, who, according to this 
report, have seen little to no benefit from rising supply.
    In 2024, the St. Louis Federal Reserve reported that the 
median household income in Missouri was $78,390, just over the 
threshold where affordable housing becomes nearly inaccessible. 
In fact, in the St. Louis metro area, NAR found that over 2,500 
more affordable listings would be needed to meet demand for 
households making $75,000 or less.
    Mr. Sears, as former president of NAR, you are aware that 
our housing supply problem is not just about building more 
housing; it is about building the right kind of housing that 
would give millions of Americans the opportunity to own their 
own home, a slice of the American Dream.
    One issue that we have heard is that capital is 
increasingly flowing toward refurbishing existing housing stock 
rather than new construction. What incentives could redirect 
private investment toward the construction of new homes?
    Mr. Sears. In the last 5 years, construction costs have 
increased anywhere between 8 and 77 percent. So, what can we do 
to help with that?
    The other thing is what I talked about earlier: Before a 
shovel goes in the ground, the red tape and regulations--
approximately $100,000 in red tape costs, and for a single-
family resident--that is about 25 percent of the cost; for 
multifamily units, it is about 40 percent of the cost.
    What we need to be able to do is, with the median price of 
a home across country around $400,000, the typical buyer would 
need six figures, $100,000, to afford that. So, based on the 
statistics you are citing, that means it is not affordable.
    When builders' costs are increasing--red tape causes 
delays--they are going to focus more on high-end homes, where 
the profit margin is greater and they can absorb those costs. 
We need to incentivize them to build the starter homes and the 
missing middle--the townhomes, the duplexes.
    Mrs. Wagner. As I said to the extent that you can give us 
some ideas that either do legislatively or otherwise to somehow 
redirect private investment toward construction of new homes 
that are the right kind for that middle-income buyer, it would 
be great.
    Again, Mr. Peter, let me ask you this. Middle-income 
homebuyers often fall through the cracks, making too much to 
qualify for assistance but also not making enough to compete in 
a hypercompetitive housing market. What reforms could expand 
attainable home ownership for middle-income buyers?
    Mr. Peter. Excellent question. Small lots. The answer is 
very simple: smaller lot sizes.
    HUD could incentivize States by bribing them, by offering a 
bounty to plat smaller lots, below 5,000 square feet, or even 
lower, townhomes below 2,000 square feet.
    If you have smaller lots, you are going to be--the land is 
costly, but then also you are going to build commensurately 
smaller homes. If you are building smaller homes, the cost goes 
down.
    Typically--and we found this across the whole country--if 
you are building on smaller lots, the price points drop by 
about 20 percent or more.
    Mrs. Wagner. Thank you very, very much. I appreciate that. 
We need to take that under advisement here.
    For many families, home ownership remains the most reliable 
path toward wealth-building and long-term financial stability; 
let us just all be honest. Unfortunately, what has long been a 
core tenet of the American Dream has become harder for younger 
Americans to achieve, as recent data shows that the average 
first-time homebuyer is now 40 years old.
    Mr. Sears, what role can Federal credit and lending policy 
play in helping responsible builders deliver more entry-level 
homes, like we just spoke about with Mr. Peter, for first-time 
buyers?
    Mr. Sears. As I mentioned with my own son, this is an 
issue, when we have seen the average age of a median homebuyer 
up to 40.
    What can we do? Can we offer programs with downpayment 
assistance? Are there low-interest loans that we can give for 
these first-time homebuyers? Can we add incentives for mom-and-
pop landlords, who might have some units that they would like 
to sell but are afraid of paying the capital-gains tax, and 
incentivize them to sell them to first-time homebuyers?
    There are multiple different solutions, different ways to--
--
    Mrs. Wagner. My time is expired. Thank you, Mr. Sears. Any 
other ideas, please submit in writing.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. The gentlewoman yields back, and we 
recognize--the chair recognizes the gentleman from California, 
Mr. Sherman, ranking member of our Capital Market Subcommittee. 
You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sherman. Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this 
important hearing. In fact, I think housing is so important 
that perhaps the name of this committee should be financial 
services and housing. Housing today is built very similar to 
the way that it was built 50 and 100 years ago. There is 
nothing or very few things in our society for which that is 
true. We face Not In My Back Yardism (NIMBYism). We need to 
have higher density where there is transit, and we need to have 
transit where there is density. Density without transit is a 
parking--is a parking disaster, but it is especially a traffic 
jam, and transit without some density is a bunch of unused 
transit.
    I hope that I can find one or two members here to work with 
me on a bill to require insurance companies to identify what 
resiliency improvements will result in lower cost insurance. 
Right now, too many insurance companies, they just pick a ZIP 
code, they pick a rate. They should be looking at the 
individual property because it is their job not just to write a 
check but to be of assistance so that we do not--to make our 
properties more resilient. There are a host of small things we 
can do one at a time. The Appraisal Industry Improvement Act, 
the Yes in My Backyard Act, and the Supply Act so that you can 
finance additional auxiliary dwelling units, and I believe, Mr. 
Sears, you mentioned the importance of changing our tax laws. I 
used to be an estate planning attorney. I understand well how 
many of my former colleagues are telling people, ``Boomers, you 
got to stay in the big house until you die or at least until 
one of you dies,'' We adopted last century a $250,000 exclusion 
on the sale of property, and we have not changed it since last 
century. So it was either bad policy then or it is bad policy 
now, because it is very different policy.
    We--I want to build homes a built differently and focus on 
manufactured housing. The Manufactured Housing Standards Act 
would clarify that only HUD has the authority to establish 
energy efficiency standards, and the Housing Supply Expansion 
Act would eliminate the outdated permanent chassis requirement.
    Mr. Sears, is manufactured housing a way to go to be able 
to build these units more efficiently and at lower cost?
    Mr. Sears. Mr. Sherman, great seeing you again. Thank you 
for what you had to say because we, as the realtors, support a 
lot of the bills and acts that you mentioned. As I mentioned 
you talk about the modular housing. Nineteen Seventy-Four was a 
long time ago, and we have seen a lot of technological advances 
since then, and so I think reforming that act for these types 
of housing is more efficient to build; it can be done quicker; 
and it will cost less. So anything we can do to encourage that 
we are for.
    Mr. Sherman. Is there any purpose to requiring a fixed 
chassis?
    Mr. Sears. I am not an engineer. I am sorry.
    Mr. Sherman. I think it is just there to be there from, 
again, last century.
    Tariffs on building materials is something Ms. Velazquez 
brought up. I had the opportunity to confront the President 
face-to-face and in public on this. He promised he would at 
least consider exempting building materials, at least those 
that would be used in the Palisades where we have to rebuild a 
town, from tariffs on building materials. Labor is already 
subject to a 14 and a half percent tariff. Now Trump wants to 
add another 39 percent.
    Mr. Sears, what do tariffs on building materials do to 
housing availability and costs?
    Mr. Sears. Representative, tariffs are a 2025 issue. We 
have seen construction costs escalating almost unchecked and 
uncontrolled in the last 5 years, and so the lack of supply 
during the coronavirus disease (COVID) certainly has hurt and 
impacted the cost of construction.
    Mr. Sherman. Mr. Peter, studies indicate that 24 percent of 
the costs of a single-family home, 40 percent of multifamily 
home is the result of regulatory costs. What regulations are 
most burdensome and add most to the cost?
    Mr. Peter. I mean, for that I would have to--I would have 
to direct you to the national association of real--builders--
homebuilders, who have the--who have compiled----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Peter. I appreciate Mr. 
Sherman's good question, and I hope you will respond and share 
that index and the components of it with the full committee.
    The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. 
Barr, who chairs our Financial Institution Subcommittee. You 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is a good segue 
because my first question is for Mr. Sears, and it is about 
bank regulation.
    Banks and credit unions play a critical role in providing 
access to affordable home ownership. In the aftermath of the 
2008 financial crisis, regulatory burdens like Dodd-Frank 
disproportionately hammered these institutions, especially 
community banks and credit unions that are often the primary 
lenders for first-time homebuyers, low to middle income 
families, and local developers. You talk about the American 
Dream going away. We want the American Dream. We want that 
American Dream for home ownership, and we need lenders to 
create that American Dream.
    In testimony to this committee yesterday, Federal Reserve 
Vice Chair for Supervision Michelle Bowman noted that, quote, 
the capital treatment of mortgages and mortgage servicing 
assets has resulted in banks reducing their participation in 
this important lending activity, potentially curtailing access 
to mortgage credit.
    Mr. Sears, given your understanding of the mortgage market 
and local housing dynamics, I would like your perspective on 
whether reducing the regulatory burden on financial 
institutions would have a positive impact on competition in the 
mortgage lending market.
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Barr. Good to see you again.
    Mr. Barr. Good to see you.
    Mr. Sears. Anytime regulation can be streamlined, shrunk, 
or eliminated I think is a good thing for the capital markets. 
We have consumers right now that are struggling to find 
financing and opening it up to more credit unions, local banks, 
and the large national companies as well, gives a consumer 
choice, which is a good thing.
    Mr. Barr. Well, thank you, and this is especially important 
regarding the regulatory capital requirements and the 
finalization of Basel III endgame. We are going to be watching 
the regulators to make sure that they improve on the previous 
version of the proposal where we saw punitive treatment of 
certain mortgages that would have reduced lending and access to 
mortgage credit.
    Let me ask you all about, and, Mr. Peter, I will direct 
this at you, shared appreciation mortgages. This is an 
innovation that I think we ought to really consider. The median 
down payment for first-time buyers is 10 percent, the highest 
recorded level since 1989. Clearly, Americans need innovative 
solutions to finance a down payment, and one solution is a 
shared appreciation mortgage. Now, what is this? It is a type 
of home loan where the borrower agrees to give a lender or co-
investors a portion of the future appreciation of the home's 
value in lieu of a said interest rate. Using a no-payment 
shared appreciation mortgage as down payment assistance can 
bridge the affordability gap and empower low income or working 
class borrowers to qualify for and can afford a conforming 
first mortgage.
    I think we should incentivize private capital providers to 
invest in these shared appreciation mortgages to encourage this 
down payment assistance for new homebuyers. One way to do this 
is to make the returns attributed to pools of shared 
appreciation mortgages tax exempt. So this would be a tax 
change outside of our committee's jurisdiction, but do you 
agree that such a tax exemption that would encourage co-
investing and sharing in the appreciation of mortgages is that 
a solution for affordability?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, I think it is certainly a very innovative 
idea, and I do not--I know enough about it to be dangerous, but 
I do not know all the gory details, and to the extent that the 
shared--these mortgages can be used to go along with shorter 
loan terms, that would be very, very beneficial to borrowers, 
because then they buildup equity much faster, and they have to 
stay in power to stay in their homes even when home prices 
decline.
    Mr. Barr. There is an innovative startup called Homium that 
I have become aware of and acquainted with, and they would use 
blockchain technology to actually aggregate co-investment 
capital to help with this down payment assistance and also 
unlock home equity in ways that are less or more consumer 
friendly than, say, a reverse mortgage. So I think we ought to 
explore that.
    Let me finally get to the 10 year. Mortgages 30 or fixed, 
they are tied to the 10 year. It is not the Fed's fund rates. 
It is the 10 year. So, for my friends across the aisle who 
think we need to spend more money, more HUD money, more 
spending, the national debt is driving the 10 year up. If you 
want to--if you want to really achieve affordability on a 30-
year fixed rate mortgage, let us send a virtuous signal to the 
bond market and start living within our means. Reduce the 10 
year. That is going to improve housing affordability. Not 
blowing up the bureaucracy and spending more money but living 
within our means. Lower the 10 year. Can someone on the panel 
talk a little bit about this, and how does the Fed's interest 
rate policy and a rising 10-year treasury yield impact the 
availability and affordability of mortgages, especially for 
first time homebuyers?
    Mr. Peter. Yes. We have seen it during the pandemic when 
the Fed lowered interest rates and then slammed the brakes, and 
now we have higher home prices, and people are dealing with 
higher mortgages. It is unsustainable and people cannot afford 
housing, but ultimately, the implicit guarantee is also 
providing competition to the 10-year treasury----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you very much, Mr. Peter.
    Mr. Barr. I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back. I recognize the 
gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott. You are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Chairman.
    Ladies and gentlemen, I want you to hear from me this 
morning. For more than 50 years, our Fair Housing Act has stood 
as a civil rights cornerstone meant to guarantee that where you 
live is not determined by the color of your skin, your 
disability, your family status, or your ZIP code but, under 
this rule, under what President Trump and his HUD Secretary--we 
are witnessing today a disturbing shift away from enforcement, 
away from any real accountability, away from the core mission 
of our distinguished HUD Department.
    So, Ms. Bailey, let me come to you. One of the most 
troubling acts is this rollback of HUD's Affirmative Furthering 
Fair Housing rule. Please explain why this is the Achilles heel 
of this legislation.
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much for the question. The 
Affirmatively Further and Fair Housing Act provision of the 
Fair Housing Act simply requires that every dollar, Federal 
dollar, used for housing and community development is used to 
further fair housing, which is inclusive and thriving 
communities that all of us can live in. This is not spending 
money. This key piece of the Fair Housing Act can actually 
reform local exclusionary zoning laws. In fact, many of our 
home builder friends are using it in court to sue localities so 
that they can build more affordable units there, and I am so 
grateful for the question that we just had regarding the 
Federal Reserve. We knew for a long time that the Federal 
Reserve could not solve our Nation's housing crisis. During the 
pandemic, the Federal Reserve pumped in over $300 billion on a 
monthly basis into our housing market. Those funds were pumped 
in a way that was exclusionary, Black, Latino, Asian American, 
Pacific Islander, Native communities could not benefit from 
those funds, and as a result, we had people who could have at 
that time got in 2 percent interest rate mortgages, affordable 
housing and, stayed home. They were locked out. So many of the 
ways that our Fair Housing Act applies extend to the Federal 
Reserve and, if Congress provided oversight over those funds 
and made sure they were equitably distributed, part of the 
challenges that we see now today would not be the result. So it 
is very important that Congress continues to provide the 
oversight that it provides.
    Mr. Scott. Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, I represent 
Gwinnett County and Clayton County, two of the very many, very 
prosperous, very exciting counties in this Nation, but are 
highly diversified in their populations. HUD's attack on this 
fair housing rule will ensure that there is nothing to stop a 
local jurisdiction from banning new apartment buildings near 
our schools and near our parks.
    Now, this is very serious legislation, and we have to 
understand we are a Nation of many different types of people, 
and we need to be careful in Congress to stop this mongering 
but use our legislative abilities to pull our racial 
populations together. I am at the forefront of that. I 
represent, as I said, everybody in my district. I have even 
Republican minorities in my district. So I want us to use this 
legislation not to dismantle this vital civil rights measure. 
Let us use that. There is a time here, in the words of that 
great Apostle Paul, ``I say to you finally, put on the whole 
garment of God,'' because we have to fight now in a difficult 
time. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Scott.
    Another gentleman from Georgia, chair recognizes the 
gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Loudermilk, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks 
everyone on the panel. I have been looking forward to this 
discussion for quite some time, especially about how Congress 
can actively remove barriers to increase our housing supply. 
One of the areas I have been focused on is the cost of onerous 
government regulations and preventing the Federal Government 
from encroaching in the areas which the States have 
traditionally and constitutionally held that primary 
jurisdiction.
    Now, prior to the passage of the CARES Act in 2020, each 
State had different notices to vacate requirements for rental 
properties. While the Federal Government--Federal moratorium on 
evictions imposed in the CARES Act expired, as they were in 
intended to do, some activist attorneys have argued that 
section 4024C pertaining to the Federal 30-day eviction notice 
requirements remain in effect primarily due to an error in 
drafting.
    Despite the expiration of the public health emergency on 
May 11, 2023, the Biden Administration extended this temporary 
provision thusly nationalizing an eviction process historically 
and constitutionally governed by the State and local laws. 
Continuing the temporary CARES Act notice-to-vacate provision 
bypasses Congress and undermines the clear intent that 
provision be temporary.
    Now, I have a bill, entitled the Respect for State Housing 
Laws Act, that would strike this provision in the CARES Act 
that was never intended to be permanent and would return 
authority to--of notice to vacate back to the States where it 
had been prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to insert for the record a 
letter from the National Association of Residential Property 
Managers in strong support of my bill.
    Chairman Hill. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix 
on page XX.]

    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It is important that Congress provides clarification here. 
The inability to collect rent ultimately hurts the tens of 
millions of Americans who work in the industry, renters and 
communities across the country.
    Mr. Sears, the Iowa Supreme Court unanimously ruled earlier 
this year that the CARES Act's 30-day notice provision was 
temporary and expired in 2020 alongside the Federal eviction 
moratorium. From the National Association of Realtors' 
perspective, how has the continued uncertainty around this 
expired provision affected real estate markets and property 
owners?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Loudermilk. The National 
Association of Realtors supports your legislation, and my 
testimony is longer than what your actual bill is, but at the 
end of the day, anytime these mom-and-pop landlords, who are 
already, if they are taking someone to eviction, likely are 
owed money, but the Federal Government imposing an extra loss 
of rent for a month onto this, it can cause irreparable harm to 
these small property owners, and that is what we are seeing. I 
will just mention that, through the CARES Act the eviction 
moratorium was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court.
    Mr. Loudermilk. What impact do you expect H.R. 1078 would 
have on providing clarity on the housing market by formally 
repealing this expired penalty?
    Mr. Sears. It would give the States back the right to 
oversee the eviction process, which is currently the way that 
it should be.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you.
    Ms. Smith, you represent organizations that manage millions 
of multifamily rental units across the country. Can you explain 
how the continued existence of this expired CARES Act provision 
has created operational challenges for multifamily property 
managers, particularly given that local courts may still be 
interpreting the provision as active?
    Ms. Smith. Well, I would agree. First of all, the National 
Multifamily Housing Council and NAA are very supportive of your 
bill, and I agree with Mr. Sears it would remove some of the 
confusion. Eviction is always an act of last resort. It is the 
last thing we want to do is to move someone out of their home, 
and there are so many discussions that take place before that 
actually happens. So adding that additional confusion of local 
laws, which are very, very clear on evictions, would really 
help, would make a big difference.
    Mr. Loudermilk. So, based on your answer, this bill would 
help clarify.
    Ms. Smith. It would absolutely help clarify.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you. How would restoring these State 
and local governments' eviction procedures impact the supply of 
rental housing going forward?
    Ms. Smith. In our experience, we evict very few people. It 
might even be less than 1 percent a year. So I do not believe 
that would have a significant impact on supply of rental 
housing.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. Thank the gentleman for yielding back.
    The gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, who is the 
ranking member of our Subcommittee on Digital Assets, Financial 
Technology, and Artificial Intelligence, you are recognized for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. Lynch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    To the ranking member, this is a really important issue, 
and I think it is probably one of our best opportunities to be 
bipartisan. This is affecting every one of our States and 
districts, and I think that the housing issue could really be a 
golden opportunity for us to work together.
    I want to thank the panelists for all your testimony. I do 
believe that we need all-of-the-above sort of approach here in 
terms of what we support. I certainly support Mr. Sherman's 
idea on manufacturing housing. I have a bill on modular 
housing. I know Chairman Hill and Ranking Member Cleaver have 
bills as well that I support, but I do really think that there 
is a special amount of need here among first-time homebuyers.
    You know, I bought my first home in 1983 for $14,000, and 
my cousin Sharon told me I overpaid. To call it a fixer upper 
would be generous, but now that same house I still own it. The 
city just assessed it at about $900,000, and I bought it for 
$14,000. It is ridiculous. So my girls do not have a shot at 
trying to buy a home with that type of burden on them, and so I 
really think that we need to focus on that first-time homeowner 
demographic and especially with them--they have to compete now 
with private equity firms and some of these real estate 
investment trusts that are actually, you know, they have more 
leverage than they are able to--they pay more, and they are 
driving up the costs.
    You know, we had a situation in this country right after 
World War II where we had 16 million American servicemembers 
come home. There was not enough housing, and Congress and the 
White House leaned into that problem. They created the VA 
housing program. They created--well, they amped up the Federal 
Housing Administration. They created the GI bill. They created 
the National Housing Act of 1949, expanded it in 1954. They did 
a lot to make sure that people could--you know, these returning 
veterans could own homes, and they also leaned into the 
production of homes as well. I think that we need to do 
something like that.
    I know that President Trump got a lot of heat because he 
suggested a 50-year mortgage. That alone will not work, but I 
think he was on the right track. I think we have to look at 
that mortgage product. You know, back after World War II, they 
created the 30-year fixed, which worked great for a lot of 
people for a long time, but that is not happening right now. We 
need to try to reengineer--I wish we had a mortgage broker on 
the panel, Mr. Chairman, but I think we have really got to look 
at that and try to find a way to maximize the number of 
subsidies that we are putting out there to help the most people 
that we can.
    So, Mr. Sears, good to see you as a fellow Massachusetts 
resident. We will not need a translator, but could you possibly 
talk about areas where we might be able to reach more people 
and create a better opportunity for some of these young people, 
first-time homebuyers to get into the market.
    Mr. Sears. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Lynch. As you said, there is 
not one silver bullet to cure this. It has to be a 
comprehensive approach, and we need all of these different 
techniques and avenues to go down. You know, in the 
Commonwealth, we passed the Affordable Homes Act last year, 
which allows 80 accessory dwelling units (ADUs) by right. 
Accessory dwelling units, and this type of legislation will 
help with the housing inventory. We are seeing more 
multigenerational people looking to live multigenerational in 
their homes, and so this is just one example, but it is only 
one. We need a very comprehensive approach because it has taken 
us 20 to 30 years to get here and we are not going to get out 
of it overnight, but we need to start today.
    Mr. Lynch. Ms. Bailey, could you----
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, sir. We also need to pass the chairwoman's 
Down Payment Toward Equity Act that would provide $100 billion 
for first-generation homebuyers. This is money that would help 
people living in rural, suburban, and urban neighborhoods be 
able to beat out those all-cash investors who are coming in not 
only driving up costs for homeowners but for renters, too. So 
we need to do those innovative things together.
    Mr. Lynch. That is great.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
    Chairman Hill. Thank the gentleman.
    The chair recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. 
Williams, who is chair of the House Small Business Committee. 
You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you 
all for being here today.
    Over the past several years, builders and multifamily 
developers have faced a financing environment that is 
increasingly difficult to navigate, and high interest rates and 
layers of Federal requirements have made it more expensive for 
lenders to extend credit, and those costs ultimately get passed 
down to the builders and the consumers.
    Now, when bank capital standards are set too high, lenders 
are forced to pull away from housing projects that communities 
urgently need. At a time when the country is facing a serious 
housing supply shortage, we cannot afford policy to choke off 
private capital and stall new development. So, Ms. Smith, could 
you elaborate on how unnecessarily high bank capital standards 
prevent the flow of capital from lenders to builders for 
homebuyers?
    Ms. Smith. One of the challenges that we faced after the 
COVID pandemic was the reduction in lending that required so 
much more equity to go into projects, so getting loans back up 
to 65 percent, even 70 percent lowers actually the cost of the 
capital stack, which really makes a project that much more 
viable. So that would be one thing that I think is really 
important is to be able to provide just a greater amount of 
liquidity.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you.
    Mr. Peter, Federal energy mandates have introduced 
significant compliance costs to the home building process, 
especially for new single family builds. The cumulative effect 
of these standards can be substantial, often raising the price 
of homes by tens of thousands of dollars placing a steep burden 
on first-time homebuyers as we talked about today, and for many 
families, these added costs shut them out of the dream of home 
ownership. In addition to homebuyers, builders also report that 
the added complexity of these standards slows projects down, 
reducing the number of homes they can build. So, Mr. Peter, can 
you expand on how Federal energy efficiency mandates are 
affecting the production of affordable homes?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, excellent question, sir. So there are 
studies out there that show that these new energy rules add 
about $30,000 to the cost of building a new house, and if the 
average house cost is $400,000, that is a significant increase. 
On the margin, many more housing projects no longer penciled 
out. So the administration is already on the ball. They have 
paused the implementation of the new rules. They should just 
roll it back entirely and the same appliances rules where 
energy standards have increased the costs by $9,000 to build a 
new home, all these things, government just needs to get out of 
the way and let builders build more, and rolling back some of 
these regulations is certainly the right way.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you.
    Mr. Sears, small and midsized builders have historically 
delivered the majority of entry level homes. Yet they face 
disproportionate regulatory burdens and rising compliance costs 
that limit their participation in the market. So this 
contributes to fewer homes again being built and less 
competition. So how can Congress create an environment where 
small builders and private capital can reenter the entry level 
housing market?
    Mr. Sears. Anytime that the Federal Government can help the 
local and States in their zoning and permitting process would 
be beneficial. Eliminating red tape, as I mentioned earlier, we 
have the missing middle, and when the builders have the red 
tape and the delays often caused by burdensome permitting 
processes, they just avoid building the entry and the starter 
homes, that missing middle, the duplexes, and the townhomes 
that we so desperately need. So anything we can do to 
incentivize the local municipalities to streamline their 
permitting and zoning process I think would be beneficial.
    Mr. Williams of Texas. Thank you for that, and I yield my 
time back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back.
    The chair recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. 
Cleaver, who is the ranking member of our Housing and Insurance 
Subcommittee.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for this 
hearing. I think it is extremely important.
    For the first time in my political career, 8 years as mayor 
of Kansas City and my years here, there is no push by the 
government to assure that we practice in this country fair 
housing. Whistleblowers have accused HUD for halting major 
investigations, and HUD's Office of Fair Housing has reduced 
its staff by 70 percent, and in theology, there is a school of 
thought that deals with the human condition. What is the human 
condition? You know, we basically are good or basically evil. I 
may be--maybe I am a little polyarchy in my theology, but I 
believe that the overwhelming number of Americans are good and 
decent people and want to do the right thing. The other number 
20 or 25 percent--this issue of the human condition is embraced 
by the monotheistic religions, all three of them: Christianity, 
Judaism, and Islam all embrace this human condition. It is 
disappointing, then, for me to know that on the issue of 
Federal housing--of fair housing that we are just going to 
abandon it.
    Now, if there are those who may believe here that, well, 
that is something that happened in the 1950s or 1930s, or 
whatever, a couple of us were involved deeply in some issues in 
California where one of the largest credit unions in the world 
were practicing bold discrimination in housing loans, and but 
for the fact that CNN went undercover and put--there is film on 
it, audio and visual. It happens every day, and we are 
abandoning it. We seemingly are abandoning it. I hate to--I do 
not want to run around accusing folks. I am telling you what 
the facts are. I am just interested from all four of you--I do 
not have much time, but is not that a problem that we ought to 
face as a Nation and you as influential Americans in the whole 
housing issue?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much for your question, sir. Our 
Nation's fair housing laws are the bedrock to making sure that 
the promises of our Constitution reach everyone. By getting rid 
of housing discrimination, we ensure that children can live in 
communities with well-resourced and high-quality instruction. 
We ensure that people can have access to clean air and clean 
water. We ensure that people can live and get to work at wages 
that will help them sustain their families. We ensure that 
people of faith can actually practice their religion without 
being harmed. So our fair housing laws are fundamental to the 
promises of our Constitution, and they have allowed us to make 
substantial progress. It has always had strong bipartisan 
support.
    It is very difficult in this moment, and my faith is of the 
Christian faith, and one of our principles is that we are to 
love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and when the Secretary 
of Housing sat before his confirmation, he pledged he would 
ensure that Dr. King's legacy, which is the Fair Housing Act, 
would be fully enforced. He has since allowed HUD under his 
leadership to do everything other than, and because of that, we 
are seeing people who are mixed status families being kicked 
out of homes. We are seeing the permission of coordinating with 
ICE to have human beings removed----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Bailey.
    Gentleman's time is expired. I thank the gentleman.
    Our Conference chair on the majority side, the gentlewoman 
from Michigan, Ms. McClain, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
for being here today. Obviously, housing is extremely 
important. It seems to be a bipartisan issue, which is--can I 
say that out loud? Which is a good thing, right?
    I want to talk specifically, Mr. Sears, to you and talk 
about manufactured homes, modular homes--manufactured homes. 
For me, it seems like it has changed quite a bit in the past 
decade or so. Can you talk about the improvements on the 
manufactured home side and how those changes are really 
benefiting all of us?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Ms. McClain. Yes, in the last 50 
years, we have seen significant technological advances in 
manufactured homes, and we have statistics that show that they 
are quicker to build. They cost less to build. They make them 
more affordable, and really what we need to do is cut the red 
tape of the regulation so that we can build more of these homes 
as part of an overall solution to the housing crisis and 
housing supply and affordability issue we have.
    Mrs. McClain. It is amazing--we had an event on the mall, 
and I actually went and saw some of these manufactured homes, 
and I got to tell you they were not the manufactured homes, 
right, of when I was growing up. They are beautiful. So I 
applaud that industry. One, manufacturing homes have changed, 
right? Two, do we have a housing shortage? Would you all agree 
on that? Especially low-income housing shortage, affordable 
housing shortage, right? Anyone disagree with that concept?
    Panel.
    [Nonverbal response.]
    Mrs. McClain. Awesome. Look at us. Cats and dogs living 
together.
    Okay. So improvements on manufactured homes, housing 
shortage that we all agree, especially low-income housing 
shortage. Let us talk a little bit about the regulations and 
the red tape. Can you talk a little bit? Red tape and 
regulations are estimated to increase the cost of a new home by 
maybe 60, $70,000. Am I accurate on that assessment that before 
I even put a shovel in the ground, the red tape is going to 
cost me about 60 to $70,000. Am I accurate on that?
    Mr. Sears. You may be accurate for your district. 
Nationally, it is around $100,000, about 25 percent of the cost 
for a single-family home. There are some areas where it is 
more. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, it is more. So what 
can we do to streamline the process, cut the red tape, make 
permitting easier? I mean, I have had rehabilitation and new 
construction where we have dozens of inspectors that have to 
come in, and it just takes too long. We need to be quicker.
    Mrs. McClain. So the time issue as well as a cost issue. If 
you are telling me it is $100,000 and we want to make sure that 
we have affordable housing, those two concepts are kind of 
working against each other. Anybody disagree with that?
    Panel.
    [Nonverbal response.]
    Mrs. McClain. Okay. Great. So we are all on the same page. 
We got to figure out how to get the regulation down. We have 
got to speed up the permitting process, and we have to figure 
out a way to make sure that we have affordable housing, and 
manufactured housing may just be an answer to that.
    What would be the downside of my legislation, the Modular 
Housing Production Act? What that piece of legislation says is 
let us qualify manufactured homes; let us stop the personal 
property so it is not classified as personal property, and you 
can go and get the same type of loan on a manufactured home 
that you could get on a modular home. What is the downside in 
doing that? Mr. Sears?
    Mr. Sears. I am all in favor because, ultimately, in 
modular homes, the construction is overseen by local building 
inspectors, and so anything we can do to open up availability 
for financing products to the American consumer is a good 
thing.
    Mrs. McClain. I do not say that sarcastically. I am really 
truly trying to say, what is the down time? They are better. 
They are quicker. They are faster; They are cheaper, and they 
are beautiful. Sir?
    Mr. Peter. Yes. So we need to produce more of those 
manufactured houses, absolutely agree, but, if we do not 
produce more housing and we promote looser lending practices, 
we are going to drive up the price.
    Mrs. McClain. How is it looser? I mean, you are having a 
manufactured home versus a regular home that is cheaper, more 
affordable, because you just--how is that looser?
    Mr. Peter. Well, the loan terms are going to be extended. 
So, if you are extending the loan terms, you are bringing down 
the monthly payment, which often times gets capitalized at a 
higher price.
    Mrs. McClain. Which is a good thing to bring down monthly 
payments, right? Because that affordability is kind of 
important.
    Mr. Peter. We need to work in concert by increasing more 
supply.
    Mrs. McClain. Would this not increase the supply?
    Mr. Peter. If it ends up--if we end up reducing more like 
the chassis, removing the chassis requirement would be a good 
step in terms of getting----
    Mrs. McClain. What is the downside on the lending side?
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, gentlewoman.
    Mrs. McClain. Thank you, sir.
    Chairman Hill. The Gentlewoman's time is expired.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Dr. Foster, 
who is the ranking member on the Financial Institution 
Subcommittee, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Foster. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    To our witnesses. You know, on a typical night, there are 
800,000 homeless people in America. On the other hand, there 
are 22 million empty nesters with a lot more than 20 million 
spare bedrooms. So there is no shortage of bedrooms in this 
country. We are somehow not allocating all the resources we 
have. So what can we do to encourage empty nesters to rent out 
that spare bedroom, not necessarily to a homeless person, but 
just, say, a hard-working single mom who can be a trustworthy 
person that you would be happy to have in your home and thereby 
free up a low-cost rental property that might be appropriate 
for curing homelessness.
    I think one of you mentioned some sort of Federal tax 
benefit as a possible solution. You know, if you are willing to 
rent out that spare bedroom, you are doing something socially 
useful, and maybe you should get a tax break from the income 
from that. Was it you that you mentioned it, Mr. Peter?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, I mentioned it in my written testimony. 
There are about 32 million spare bedrooms in this country, and 
if we allow 10 percent of those, we would have created a lot of 
additional housing. I personally--I lived with an empty nester 
couple when I first moved to DC, and I can attest to this, this 
is a viable option.
    Mr. Foster. Yes. So just even a small preference in the 
Federal Tax Code for that kind of income might be enough. You 
do not need to get every empty nester to do their property. If 
we got 120th of them, that is enough to cure homelessness.
    Mr. Sears, you mentioned mortgage lock-in as a big problem. 
There is a proven solution to that. You know, in Denmark, for 
more than 200 years, the Danish mortgage origination system has 
prevented interest rate lock-in and mortgages, and it does that 
by transferring the interest rate risk from the homeowner to 
the bond market, and there was a serious consideration of that 
following the financial crisis as one of the only feasible 
proven ways that we could have actually have replaced Fannie 
and Freddie with some safer system for the taxpayer in terms of 
bailout. Is that something that has been looked at recently? I 
saw an article in Business Insider talking about the genius of 
the Danish system. Is that something that is getting a serious 
look these days?
    Mr. Sears. I am sorry, Mr. Foster, I cannot speak to that.
    Mr. Foster. If you could--all of you, actually, for the 
record, just go have a look. There is a Wikipedia article on 
it. I know there was a lot of effort put into that, a lot 
written, and it was one of the only feasible ways of replacing 
Fannie and Freddie in ways that did not get us right back to 
the same point where you had a taxpayer-funded bailout 
necessary.
    Ms. Bailey. If I may, sir, one of the things that we have 
seen is that our 30-year fixed rate mortgage has really 
expanded home ownership in our Nation. It is the hallmark of 
opportunity for millions of families. Now, we did not do it as 
well as we could have, and we left behind a lot of people. Now 
we need to be very intentional to make sure those consumers for 
whom the health of the housing system will depend on can have 
access to that very affordable product. It allows for people to 
know what their monthly payment will be without having any risk 
of unforeseen costs associated----
    Mr. Foster. I agree completely. I mean, the 30-year 
mortgage, and actually it was preserved under proposals to 
switch over to the Danish system. Have a look at it. It was a 
good idea 15 years ago when we looked at it, and it is still a 
good idea.
    Mr. Peter, you repeatedly mentioned smaller lot sizes as a 
key to progress on this. So, first off, how much of the 
additional $100,000, or whatever, is just lot size, minimum lot 
size requirements?
    Mr. Peter. Yes. I mean, it is, in Austin, for example, we 
have just studied this. In 2024 they put in place a new bill 
which allows you to put two or three homes in the same--on the 
same parcel. Now, it used to be that a home would cost a 
million dollars to build new, but anecdotally we are hearing 
now if they are putting two or three homes in the same parcel; 
they can sell each of those homes for $500,000.
    Mr. Foster. That is right, and one way to encourage this is 
with the land value tax, which I presume you are familiar with. 
You know, this is very successful in countries that have 
implemented this. You transfer a lot, most of the tax load to 
the unimproved value of the land the property is on. So, if you 
do what they did in Austin or Seattle, then you take what used 
to be occupied by a big mansion and put six townhouses on it, 
you do not pay more taxes, because the tax is on the unimproved 
value of the land and so there are things we can do in the 
Federal Tax Code to encourage that sort of behavior at the 
State and local level.
    If you looked at how States are changing their laws to 
evade the State and Local Taxes (SALT)--that whole issue there, 
we could structure the Federal Tax Code to encourage a land 
value based tax and do a whole lot of good to encourage but not 
mandate the smaller lot sizes that you have identified. I now 
have negative 2 seconds.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman's time is expired.
    The gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Davidson, who chairs our 
National Security Subcommittee, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Davidson. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thanks to our witnesses for being here today for your 
testimony and for a critical issue. When we talk about 
affordability, housing is top of mind for families everywhere 
in our country, and when you talk about confronting the 
affordability crisis, I think it is one of the things that 
everyone is serious about from the most basic local government 
to Federal Government to President of the United States. We are 
talking about affordability.
    When I hear some of my colleagues talk about, ``Well, the 
solution to affordability is more subsidies for more people,'' 
my mind just wants to break. I am, like, does not compute. Do 
you understand why we have inflation? Clearly people struggle 
with this cause-and-effect relationship. We have $7 trillion 
worth of Federal spending, roughly. We have $5 trillion that 
comes out with revenue, and we put back in $7 trillion. So, if 
you think about it as something like a 10 gallon jug and you 
take 5 gallons of fluid out and you dump 7 gallons in, you 
change the level. You inherently inflated it. So it is not the 
house that you have lived in for the past 15 years massively 
got more valuable if you did not do any improvements in it. 
Fundamentally, what happened is the unit of measure, the 
dollar, got worthless. Our money is worth far less, and it is 
worth far less if you measure it in most commodities. It is 
getting hurt.
    Where does the inflation hit the hardest? It hits the 
hardest in the things we subsidize the most. We have done the 
most subsidies for anything probably in healthcare. Look how 
unaffordable healthcare is. Maybe next would be education, and 
look at that. Federal Government took over lending, and now 
with no equity, no skin in the game, you get as much student 
debt as you can amass, regardless of what your degree is. 
Frankly, barely consideration what your GPA is. So we load 
these kids up with debt, and then say, ``Well, let us go help 
them set up to buy a house,'' and they cannot afford it. They 
do not have any equity. It is all going to student loans.
    So let us subsidize that and pretend that they have equity. 
Who is on the hook for it? The taxpayers. It was a terrible 
plan. You have to have equity in a loan. You have to do real 
underwriting, and you want the private sector to do that.
    I think that is one of the reasons I like Mike Lawler and 
Joyce Beatty working on H.R. 5913. This lets banks do more 
lending that is capped at 15 percent right now. The Office of 
the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) and the Federal Reserve 
can look at it and say, if you want to do more public welfare 
lending, community good, you could if you have a safe and sound 
bank, because you are taking some of the risk. You are not just 
transferring it on to taxpayers. This is why I think you have 
commonsense regulation like the no chassis bill that we have 
talked about a lot.
    What I do like, when I talk with my homebuilders, they--I 
ask them, ``Why do you build what you build,'' and it is not 
because we need to maximize the number of bedrooms utilized in 
America. They build houses that people want to buy. You know, 
there was a time when Ford just cranked out black model Ts, 
right? Because they could make them faster and that met the 
market for a point, but people wanted to buy other things. They 
wanted colors. They wanted features and they are choosing to 
buy much more robust homes and, for people that have means, 
there is not a shortage at the high-end luxury market, right? 
At the low end, it is, like, well, how are we going to address 
it? So I am concerned that we have colleagues that their 
solution is that the government is going to tell you what you 
are going to build and how you are going to do it.
    I was a little relieved when I hear some of my Democratic 
colleagues say, ``We do not want to enforce it; we just want to 
incentivize it.'' And so, while I do not like the income tax 
because it is a massive invasion of privacy and it is used for 
coercion and control, it does motivate behavior. I think one of 
the useful things we do with the Tax Code is exempt capital 
gains, particularly for single-family homes when it is your 
primary resident. That is a commonsense thing. We have to go to 
Ways and Means to fix that, but I hope they get it fixed soon. 
It should either eliminate it if it is your primary residence 
or massively increase it and index it to inflation.
    I think redevelopment of existing property is one of the 
biggest things. So historic and new market tax credits, I think 
that is a big win that we got this year. We made those 
permanent, and there are a lot of things that we do but I am 
concerned as we look at reprivatizing the Government-Sponsored 
Enterprises (GSEs) that we look at the administration, and I 
would just say, look, if the government is going to continue to 
own the risk, why would the government not own the cash-flow? 
But, if you are going to privatize the cash-flow and let the 
profit flow out, why are you going to socialize the risk? I do 
not think there is a massive demand for more risk in the 
market. So I would caution my decisionmakers there. I yield.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman yields back.
    Also from the great State of Ohio, the chair recognizes the 
gentlewoman from Ohio, Ms. Beatty, who is our ranking member on 
the National Security Subcommittee, for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Beatty. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you ranking 
member, and thank you to all the witnesses here today. 
Certainly, you have had a lot to digest, and you have heard a 
lot.
    I am going to repeat what my ranking member said, that we 
have certainly heard a lot about bipartisanship, all the great 
things that we could do and some things, Mr. Chairman, that 
were very inspiring from you that we can do. Words like ``new 
steps,'' ``new ways,'' the fundamental being ``housing 
fundamental to the American Dream,'' and all of that sounds 
great, but it is going to take us to do some of the things or 
undo some of the things, Ms. Bailey, that you said that this 
administration is doing. Let me thank you for being blatantly 
honest of painting the real picture for what so many of those 
Americans are seeing, and certainly Black Americans and Brown 
Americans and single women and rural Americans are seeing, 
because this administration has been blind to them. I say this 
with facts, not just words.
    If we look at the great State of Ohio from where I am from, 
and I agree with some of the things that my colleague who just 
spoke about what we have to do to increase housing. Will it 
take money? Absolutely. Will it take other partnerships? Yes. 
The latest Gap Report shows that Ohio faces a shortage of some 
264,083 affordable rental homes for extremely low income.
    Now, some of my colleagues want to go straight to home 
ownership. Well, some of our districts we can tell you the 
dream is to put a roof over your head, because they cannot 
afford the mortgage. They cannot walk into a bank. So let us 
get in the real world. If we are going to fix affordable 
housing, yes, it is great to talk about homebuilders and to 
talk about all of those corporate giants, but the last time I 
checked, there are people who are in public housing, and yet 
this administration is doing away with some parts of Section 8 
and public housing. This administration has fired HUD staffing 
at an unbelievable unprecedented rate of those folks who are 
actually doing the work to help us with no rhyme or reason.
    In order to afford a fair market rent, two bedroom 
apartments in the Midwest in Columbus, Ohio, the capital, a 
household must earn at least $27 dollars an hour. As a matter 
of fact, $27.79 an hour, and we know that is not in existence 
for those who are living in poverty above or below by a few 
percentages and the administration has done absolutely nothing 
to improve these statistics or house more American families.
    Now, let me just say this: While I know there is not a rule 
or law that allows--that mandates the HUD Secretary to come 
before us, we are almost at the end of the year, and we have 
not had Secretary Turner come to testify. I do applaud my 
Republican colleagues who have said we should change that and 
have them come as we beat the you know what out of Secretary 
Fudge, who had already sent us videos and a plan.
    Now, I have been on this committee with housing since the 
inception of my being in Congress. I spent 20 years with HUD as 
a housing consultant. Not one response. Not one call from this 
Secretary. So I am just saying we have all kinds of problems 
within this administration that we need to deal with.
    Let me now go to ask the question, Ms. Bailey. When I am 
back in my district, one of the primary concerns that I am 
hearing is directly from my constituents about the cost of 
housing, and so many of my colleagues on both sides of the 
aisle have addressed various legislative solutions today that 
would make minor technical changes to our housing policy 
framework without allocating any additional funds to tackling 
this nationwide crises. Can you tell me, in your opinion, as we 
look at solving the affordable housing crisis in America, can 
we do it without increasing resources? Can we do it with 
gutting the staff?
    Ms. Bailey. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In fact, we are 
going to push more families into homelessness. You said it. 
There is not a town in this Nation where a person making 
minimum wage can afford a two-bedroom apartment.
    Mrs. Beatty. Thank you. I know my time is up. Can I ask the 
other members to send in writing to me what they think about 
gutting the staff and not having enough money, because it is in 
alignment with their testimony that was very favorable.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you very much.
    Mrs. Beatty. Thank you.
    Chairman Hill. The gentlewoman's time has expired, and the 
gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Rose, is recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you, Chairman Hill, and thanks to Ranking 
Member Waters for holding the important hearing and thank you 
to our witnesses for taking time to be with us today.
    Last week, I was proud to introduce H.R. 6293, the Housing 
Supply Expansion Act of 2025, along with my colleagues Housing 
and Insurance Subcommittee Chair Mike Flood, Subcommittee 
Ranking Member Emanuel Cleaver, Subcommittee Vice Chair Monica 
DeLaCruz, and Congressman Lou Correa, and Congressman Scott 
Peters. My legislation will remove a Federal chassis 
requirement that has served to unnecessarily raise the price of 
manufactured housing.
    Since 1974, Federal law has required that manufactured 
homes include a permanently installed chassis. This has 
significantly reduced the ability of young and low-income 
families to buy their own homes. Removing the permanent chassis 
requirement from manufactured homes will lower construction 
costs, unlock modern design flexibility, and open far more 
locations for quality affordable housing. I want to thank the 
committee for attaching H.R. 6293 to today's hearing.
    Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a letter from the Manufactured Housing Institute 
supporting the Housing Supply Expansion Act.
    Chairman Hill. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix 
on page XX.]

    Mr. Rose. Mr. Sears, your written testimony states that 
H.R. 6293, the Housing Supply Expansion Act, would modernize 
the Federal definition of manufactured housing to include 
modular and prefabricated units not built on a permanent 
chassis opening financing opportunities for innovative 
construction methods. Could you expand on how H.R. 6293 would 
open new financing opportunities?
    Mr. Sears. Absolutely. Thank you very much, Mr. Rose. As I 
stated earlier, by updating old and outdated laws, we can 
certainly open up new housing opportunities for Americans, and 
by eliminating the chassis requirement of the permanent chassis 
requirement, as I stated earlier, prefab manufactured homes are 
cheaper; they are quicker to build, and so anything we can do 
to get more of these types of homes on the market would be 
better for American consumers.
    Mr. Rose. Could you elaborate, though, on financing in 
particular and how this might impact financing opportunities?
    Mr. Sears. Yes. So there is a prohibition on the financing 
of the modular homes, as Ms. McClain was talking about. So how 
can we modernize those rules and regulations to be able to 
allow for more financing products to be available for these 
types of homes, and that is what we need to do, change the 
existing rules.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you.
    Mr. Peter, your prepared testimony recommends adding and 
clarifying language on temporary chassis to the Housing Supply 
Expansion Act. However, the bill already expands the definition 
of a manufactured home to include those built with or without a 
permanent chassis, which I believe encompasses homes using a 
temporary chassis for transport since such a chassis would not 
qualify as permanent. While I remain open to technical 
refinements, I am really having a hard time seeing how the 
Housing Center's proposed language would enhance the bill given 
that its current text already permits manufactured homes with 
temporary chassis. Could you elaborate or explain, with respect 
to your testimony, explain why the Housing Center believes 
additional clarifying language might be necessary?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, a very simple answer, sir. We were 
referring to the bill in the Senate, not to your particular 
bill.
    Mr. Rose. Okay.
    Mr. Peter. So I have now--I have heard your bill. It 
already deals with a lot of these issues. Let me just say, from 
the studies that I have seen, or estimates that I have seen, 
removing the chassis requirement could save between $5,000 to 
$15,000. So that is a good chunk of money for a typical first-
time homebuyer.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. Thanks for clarifying.
    Mr. Peter, how can Federal policy better align with local 
initiatives to expand housing supply without imposing new 
mandates or a one-size-fits-all regulatory environment?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, that is also an excellent question.
    So I think, at the Federal level, the best levers we have 
is to pay States for outcomes directly. So, if they plat 
smaller lots and a home is being built on that smaller lot, 
then you receive a bounty from the Federal Government that the 
State can spend to their liking.
    What we have seen in our case studies that we have done: If 
the government gets out of the way, the private sector is going 
to build more housing. We have done 30 case studies. This would 
be a way of allowing builders--giving the builders greater 
access to smaller lots, where they can build housing at lower 
price points which are going to be attainable to first-time 
homebuyers.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. I completely agree with that.
    Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. I yield back.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Rose.
    I now recognize the gentleman from California, the ranking 
member on our Task Force on Monetary Policy.
    Mr. Vargas, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate 
the opportunity. I also want to thank the ranking member and 
all of the witnesses here today.
    Yesterday, we did have a hearing, actually, for the 
Monetary Task Force, and I got to listen to my colleagues talk 
about the debt, which is a big deal. Obviously, it is. I agree 
with that.
    But what they--and they preached about it, but what they 
did not say is they all voted for it last time. They all voted 
to raise it by $5 trillion in the ``Big Ugly Bill.'' After it 
passed, they applauded and now there is amnesia, and somehow 
they forgot that they are the ones that created all of that 
debt. It is pretty interesting.
    Today, we get to hear that $7 trillion is coming in and--we 
are spending $7 trillion, but only $5 trillion is coming in. 
Well, yes, you voted for that. You voted for that. Why are you 
telling us? You voted for that.
    Anyway, I hate to bring that up, but, boy, you keep hearing 
this, and there is some amnesia around here.
    Now, about the housing.
    Mr. Sears, I wanted to ask you more about diving; you were 
so excited about that but, instead, I do want to ask you about 
home sizes. Back in the 1920s, what was the average home size?
    Mr. Sears. That is a great question, Mr. Vargas. I do not 
have the answer.
    Mr. Vargas. About 1,048 square feet, according to AI. 
Today, the average house is 2,600 square feet. It has grown 
dramatically.
    Also, the lot size, I agree with you completely on that. I 
mean, in San Diego, they are looking at this finally. They have 
5,000-square-foot lot requirements, and you do not need that, 
especially near areas where you have transit. So I think that 
is a really good idea.
    Again, I think the smaller lot sizes and smaller homes, I 
think, are something that is important.
    However, in parts of San Diego, what they did before was 
this: They took a single-family home, they scraped it, and they 
put in what they called a ``Huffman Six-Pack,'' and that is the 
ugliest thing you could possibly build in the cheapest way. 
They scraped the front of it, they made parking where the front 
yard was, and it became six units.
    That is why everyone is afraid of density, because that is 
what they remember. They did this for a number of years until 
the city stopped it.
    What can we do so that does not happen, so you do have 
some--at least some beauty in these homes? Because that is what 
people did not like, how ugly these damn buildings were.
    Mr. Sears, what can you do?
    Mr. Sears. Yes, so we can talk about smart growth and 
density. You talk about housing near transit centers. That is 
very important for us, especially in the metropolitan areas. I 
am with Mr. Peter. Personally, I sold a lot of homes on 5,000-
square-foot lots.
    So density is important, but smart growth is as well. How 
do we do this so that it can maintain the fabric of the 
neighborhood without destroying it?
    Mr. Vargas. The other issue is this: We have all been 
talking about this red tape, $100,000. I was looking it up in 
AI. That also includes roads, sewers, parks in that--the 
infrastructure.
    In California, you have to pay for all that because, for 
those of us that have owned a home for a long time, we do not 
pay that much in taxes. I mean, I bought a home in 1993. I paid 
$176,000. I pay less than $3,000 a year in tax for that home.
    When a new home comes in, it has to pay for all the sewer, 
it has to pay for all the roads and the parks and everything 
else, and that really increases the cost dramatically.
    At least, AI is saying that what you guys are considering 
red tape is infrastructure.
    Mr. Peter, go ahead, sir.
    Mr. Peter. Yes, I mean, I agree with you, and--but, in 
California, the problem is that you have distorted the market 
through Prop 13. Of course, yes, new housing that gets built is 
going to be assessed at much higher rates and Prop 13 and 
other--in California, other impediments to building new housing 
has also led to a collapse in building.
    Mr. Vargas. But that is the case in many States where they 
are--I am sorry.
    Go ahead, Ms. Bailey. I will give you some time.
    Ms. Bailey. One other mechanism that is included is 
building for weather-related impacts, which are increasing. 
Those costs are also part of making sure we have structures 
that can sustain the hardship of the weather-related impacts.
    Mr. Vargas. No, absolutely. I was talking about the codes 
here. The code, of course, if you are in places like California 
or certainly in Florida or even in Kentucky or Kansas now 
because of hail, other things like that--so I agree.
    My time is about up, and I appreciate, again, the 
opportunity. I do think that the things that we are talking 
about are important, and we have to figure out how to do this 
together and quit talking about this spending when they are the 
ones doing it too.
    Thanks.
    Chairman Hill. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.
    Over the past decade, housing affordability has become one 
of the most urgent challenges facing American families. The 
Nation has not built enough homes to meet demand and rising 
costs, combined with a complex web of Federal, State, and local 
regulations, have made it increasingly difficult for both 
builders and families.
    As I continue to meet with Realtors, builders, and housing 
providers, I hear a consistent concern: a patchwork of zoning 
rules, permitting requirements, and development restrictions 
and they vary widely from one jurisdiction to another. This 
regulatory maze slows construction, increases costs, and limits 
the supply of attainable homes.
    Without a more consistent and predictable framework, we 
risk deepening an already-severe shortage and placing even more 
families out of reach of home ownership or affordable rental 
options.
    Mr. Sears, Realtors see these challenges on the ground 
every day. Regulations at every level of government now add an 
estimated $93,000, which is nearly one-quarter of the total 
price of a new single-family home.
    From your perspective, how does this patchwork of local and 
State regulations affect housing affordability and access for 
first-time buyers and for members of the workforce?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Timmons. There is a lot to unpack 
there but let us start with the patchwork of regulations.
    What we have seen is, there are builders who want to build 
and, because of the disparity in or continuity in these, they 
will walk away from projects, because they do not have the 
time, the money, the resources in order to go through the 
extensive permitting process that happens.
    So--but we are--you know, the National Association of 
Realtors, we support the HOME Reform Act, which would cut the 
red tape and strengthen the public-private partnerships and 
that is something I think is very important and vital for us.
    So anything we can do to streamline the process, to 
incentivize builders, especially the small and medium-size 
builders who can help us with entry-level and the missing 
middle homes, we need to do everything we can to help them and 
cutting red tape is certainly a good start.
    Mr. Timmons. In my time as a small business owner, it is 
actually worse than just the patchwork framework. I think some 
bureaucrats abuse their authority, and they try to find reasons 
to not do a project that they think might not be appropriate 
but is perfectly legal.
    Is that something you have experienced?
    Mr. Sears. One hundred percent.
    Mr. Timmons. That has been very frustrating in my time.
    One follow up question. If Federal incentives or standards 
are necessary, what specific actions would most effectively 
encourage States and localities to streamline their processes 
and expand the supply of housing?
    Mr. Sears. Well, I think part of it--and we were talking 
about it with Mr. Vargas--help with infrastructure costs, if 
the Federal Government were to be able to incentivize and help 
with that. Offering block grants in different communities, that 
could certainly help with buyers.
    When it comes to building, it is how do we incentivize the 
local communities to streamline things. I know there are some 
examples from around the country. We actually worked with the 
American Planning Association (APA) and the League of Cities. 
We have a ``Housing Accelerator'' guidebook with nearly four 
dozen different success stories from around the country on how 
we can incentivize and streamline the processes and so, happy 
to supply that to you in writing.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that.
    If good policies have the potential of positively impacting 
housing supply, I want to point out that bad policies do the 
opposite and in last 4 years, we saw trillions and trillions of 
dollars in spending that caused inflation to go up. They tried 
to run away from that, but we have unnecessary spending related 
to COVID, and that caused interest rates to go up.
    I recently moved. I was in a wonderful home that I grew out 
of; I needed to get a new house. I had a 2.3-percent interest 
rate. Selling my 2.3-percent interest rate was one of the most 
painful things ever. You know what my interest rate is now? 
6.8. You know what is even funnier? I have a 5-year adjustable-
rate mortgage (ARM), because the cost of me locking in a 30-
year note was going to be 8.5.
    Again, we can facilitate positive outcomes from Congress, 
but we can also cause negative outcomes.
    Ms. Smith, Bozzuto operates in many different regions, each 
with its own zoning codes, fee structures, and approval 
processes. What specific reforms in permitting, zoning, or 
Federal financing programs would most directly shorten 
timelines for producing new affordable housing?
    Ms. Smith. Thank you.
    Well, certainly anything you could do to fast-track the 
approval process of permitting--you know, actually getting 
projects shovel-ready and in the ground. It can take up to 2 
years to get a project in title today. So that adds a 
tremendous amount of cost just between the time you are 
planning it and the time you are building it. So cutting 
through some of that red tape would make a big difference.
    One of the things that we really believe is a great 
opportunity for building more multifamily housing is 
modernizing the 221(d)(4) program. That is an excellent 
program. We have used it at Bozzuto repeatedly over the years. 
The problem with the program today is it just takes too long; 
it is too administratively burdensome----
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you for that. I have run out of time.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Haridopolos [presiding]. He yields back.
    Mr. Green, you have a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Green. I do, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to ask that I, with unanimous consent, 
indicate in the record that I will be introducing a statement 
such that I am supporting H.R. 4069, the Downpayment Toward 
Equity Act of 2025; the Ending Homelessness Act of 2025--that 
would be H.R. 4872; and finally, H.R. 4223, the Housing Crisis 
Response Act of 2023, all of which have been introduced by Hon. 
Maxine Waters.
    I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Haridopolos. Without objection, that is adopted.
    Mr. Haridopolos. Next we go to the gentleman from Illinois, 
Mr. Casten.
    You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Casten. Thank you very much.
    I appreciate everybody being here today. It is an important 
issue.
    It strikes me that we are having basically two of the three 
necessary conversations. If we want to lower the cost of 
housing, we can either increase supply, we can reduce the input 
costs, or we can lower demand. I do not think any of us are 
advocating for policies that would lower demand, but at least 
in theory that is another way to cause housing costs to go 
down.
    On the supply side, I just make the observation that, if 
your goal was to destroy the labor force of the construction 
industry, you should adopt Trump's immigration policies--or if 
your goal was to destroy the labor force for agriculture or 
hospitality. It is going to take a long time to fix that.
    I want to focus for now on the--at least initially, on the 
input costs. Would any of you argue that raising the price of 
bathroom vanities lowers the cost of a house?
    Obviously, the President imposed tariffs on bathroom 
vanities and kitchen cabinets because--I do not know why.
    I guess I would like to start with you, Ms. Smith, because 
you are the one that has the most direct construction 
experience, with Bozzuto, if I am following.
    Ms. Smith. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Casten. I am wondering if you have been able to look--
all of these tariffs, what impact are those tariffs 
specifically having on your input costs for new construction?
    Ms. Smith. Well, it is an excellent question and one we 
have been trying to answer ourselves.
    The subs have, up until now, been sort of including their 
understanding of what the tariffs are going to be in their 
pricing, but it has been such a moving target that they are a 
little uncomfortable with those kinds of commitments.
    There have been very few starts, and so we have not really 
seen how it is going to be priced in. Once we see demand really 
pick up, we expect to see construction costs go up as a result 
of the tariffs, but no one really knows how it is going to 
shake out right now because----
    Mr. Casten. Okay.
    Ms. Smith [continuing]. it has been sort of moving around.
    Mr. Casten. Because the National Association of Home 
Builders--and this was back in April, so I do not know if this 
is still current. They had surveyed their members, and I think 
they said about a $10,000 price per home but that was April. I 
think there have been more tariffs since then.
    The Bureau of Labor Statistics' (BLS) data--which, of 
course, since BLS is not releasing data as much as they are 
supposed to anymore--in September, they were saying a 3.5-
percent increase just because of tariffs.
    I am curious if that feels right from your experience as a 
practitioner or if you just do not know.
    Ms. Smith. Well, costs are going up about 3 percent right 
now, but costs went up significantly over the past 5 years. 
Just by example, we would spend about $195,000 a unit on hard 
costs for a new apartment 5 years ago. Today, that is $240,000.
    Mr. Casten. Yes, and--yes, obviously. I do think there is 
a--you know, we had global inflation during COVID that hurt 
everybody. Tariffs, by definition, are only affecting domestic 
inflation----
    Ms. Smith. Absolutely.
    Mr. Casten [continuing]. right?
    Ms. Smith. We think----
    Mr. Casten. So that is a choice, to have tariff-driven 
domestic inflation.
    Ms. Smith [continuing]. we expect costs to go up.
    Mr. Casten. I do also just--I hope that all of us can--and 
this may sound dumb, but I hope all my colleagues will go home 
tonight and reread ``The Three Little Pigs.'' Because some of 
this conversation is we can lower costs if only we did not have 
so many building codes, if only we did not have to build 
climate-resilient homes, if only we did not put efficiency 
codes in so that people could save money on energy. It is true, 
if you build a house out of straw, it is cheaper than building 
a house out of brick but there are big, bad wolves out there 
that we have to protect against.
    My last question is for you, Mr. Peter, as our resident 
economist here. Oh, do not shake your head. Come on.
    Mr. Barr had, I think appropriately, raised the point that 
the 30-year mortgage tracks the 10-year Treasury. I think a 
number of us on this committee have been concerned about the 
growing spread between the overnight Fed funds rate and the 10-
year Treasury. It is one thing that the 10-year Treasury is 
high; it is something else that we have this increasingly 
inverting yield curve.
    Yes, we have long-term structural debt problems. Do you 
know when the yield curve started inverting?
    Mr. Peter. You would have to tell me.
    Mr. Casten. Well, it was essentially the start of the Trump 
Administration. That was not the start of the structural debt. 
Mike Konczal has famously described this as the ``moron risk 
premium,'' because when you have so many companies who are now 
being told that contract law does not apply in the United 
States the way it used to--``You had a permit, but I am going 
to pull it away because,'' I do not know, ``you had a minority 
CEO''--that is pulling investment. So we are seeing this 
premium that is in there.
    I am out of time, but I guess I would just ask all of you 
to continue to fight for the rule of law, because the U.S. has 
an advantage, as a country, so long as we attract the best and 
brightest to our shores----
    Mr. Haridopolos. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Casten [continuing]. and because they know that we are 
going to follow the law.
    Mr. Haridopolos. The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Steil, 
chairman of the Subcommittee on Digital Assets, Financial 
Technology, and AI, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Steil. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Not easy right now. Costs of housing are up. People are 
struggling. How do you pay for this? Where are we at, and where 
do we need to go?
    If we look back just at the median home, the median home 
has increased significantly for families and the cost structure 
for families is a huge challenge. So, if we look back a 
generation ago, in 1985, the share of households spending more 
than 30 percent of their income on housing was 28 percent. Now 
it is 37 percent, and we have an undersupply of housing of 
roughly 6 million homes.
    Mr. Sears, if I can start with you. There are a number of, 
kind of bullet shots that we can take at this to chip away at 
the challenge we face. There is no one silver bullet, there is 
no one thing we are going to do where housing prices are 
immediately going to become affordable but in your testimony, 
you have some great nuggets in there--and, in particular, lot 
sizes. Could you comment on what that would do and how local 
leaders could engage to bring down the cost of housing?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Steil.
    As Mr. Peter has talked about, lot sizes certainly have an 
impact and they allow for density and one of the things is, the 
denser we have for housing construction, the more units that 
come on the market. That does impact pricing and affordability.
    Mr. Steil. You also talk about the shot clock, where people 
go in, you want to get approval, and you find yourself gummed 
up in all sorts of red tape. How would that impact housing 
costs?
    Mr. Sears. Yes. By streamlining the red tape, the 
permitting process--you know, on average, we are looking at 
about $100,000 of costs before a shovel goes in the ground for 
a typical single-family home. So, if we can speed that up, 
there is a time value to money, which would allow for more 
affordable housing to be produced.
    Mr. Steil. Could you do some pre-approval--Ms. Bynum, and I 
have looked at pattern books, ways that cities could be 
proactive to do this even on the front end--to further 
accelerate the timeline?
    Mr. Sears. Yes, anything that could be done in advance 
would be beneficial for housing production.
    Mr. Steil. So why would you not do that then? Why would 
municipalities not be doing that in advance today?
    Mr. Sears. NIMBYism, not in my backyard. As one of your 
colleagues talked about, bureaucrats getting in the way of 
projects that they might not particularly agree with even 
though they are legal to do.
    Mr. Steil. Let me shift gears. One of the solutions that we 
have heard talked about by some of my colleagues on the left 
is, why do you not just come in and control the costs? Rent 
controls in particular. We saw this with the mayoral race in 
New York City. That, a-ha, you can just come in, set a price, 
the government can dictate the price, and things will solve 
themselves.
    Mr. Sears, you have examined and studied this. What happens 
when municipalities put in rent controls?
    Mr. Sears. In the early 2000s, I got my MBA at Western New 
England University, and, in fact, my economics professor was a 
tenant of mine at the time. He was a visiting professor. He 
took one session, one class, to talk about how rent controls 
flawed economics.
    I think, universally, economists agree that rent control is 
flawed. Instead, what it does is it makes people stay put. 
Housing inventory shrinks. You have investors that will flee 
from those localities that implement rent control because of--
--
    Mr. Steil. It dramatically reduces investment in those 
communities that have rent controls, right?
    Mr. Sears. Yes.
    Mr. Steil. What are the long-term ramifications of that?
    Mr. Sears. Higher prices.
    Mr. Steil. So, by putting in these rent controls, what we 
really see is higher prices and lower-quality housing. Is that 
right?
    Mr. Sears. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Steil. All right.
    Let me shift in the allotted time that I have left and come 
to you, Mr. Peter, if I can. Can you walk us through the 
Carpenter Index? I think this is a really helpful framework to 
understand the lay of the land and the challenges that we face 
in housing.
    Mr. Peter. Yes. So the Carpenter Index is one of the 
metrics that we track affordability at the national level, and 
particularly we do it for the largest 100 metros.
    The Carpenter Index asks a simple question: The carpenter, 
they build housing, but can they actually afford to live in an 
entry-level home?
    Back in 2012, they found that the affordability was there 
in 74 metros out of the largest 100 metros, it was affordable 
for an average carpenter household. Today, that number has 
shrunk to about 21, 22 metros. So it has been deteriorating 
massively.
    We lay the fault squarely at the foot of the Federal 
Reserve. By mid-2020, we were warning them that the housing 
market was overheating, and they ignored our calls. They 
maintained that the inflation was transitory. Of course, they 
had to slam the brakes in 2022, and at that point it was too 
late. The home prices were higher; now interest rates are 
higher.
    But, at the same time, the Carpenter Index also shows that 
if we can build smaller lot sizes, housing is going to be 
affordable for----
    Mr. Steil. I am going to cut you off, because we are going 
to run out of time, but I appreciate all of you being here and 
your testimony. A huge challenge.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Flood [presiding]. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, is 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you to our witnesses for joining us 
today.
    Two-point-five million--Two-point-five million children. 
That is how many children are currently being raised in grand 
families or kinship households in the United States. In my home 
State, that which I share with Mr. Sears, over 100,000 children 
are raised in grandfamily or kinship households.
    Now, these are the children of servicemembers and veterans 
that are living with a grandparent while their parent is 
deployed. These are the children whose parents have been 
impacted by the opioid epidemic and are struggling with 
substance use disorder. These are children who, were it not for 
their grandparents' intervention, perhaps they and their 
siblings would be separated or living in foster care. These are 
the children who are living with grandma while their parents 
are getting back on their feet after losing a job.
    That is exactly why Representative Jim McGovern and I have 
introduced the Grandfamily Housing Act to provide resources to 
those households to help with schoolwork, after-school care, 
and home repairs. This affords us a chance to support those 
grandfamilies, our elders that are living on fixed incomes, who 
are struggling to take care of a child after they have already 
raised their children.
    Ms. Bailey, some people are unaware of this family model, 
which has really quadrupled in the last decade. As the co-chair 
of the Task Force on Aging and Families, I am well aware, but 
do you mind just educating the public on why this is, in fact, 
an issue deserving of our attention? Can you discuss the unique 
types of challenges that elders face when trying to raise young 
children in senior residences?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much for the question. It is very 
important and thank you for your legislation.
    Grandparents living at home oftentimes need home 
modifications for safety so that they can remain there and 
maintain their families and help to keep their families whole. 
Without your legislation and full enforcement of our Fair 
Housing Act to make sure we are doing things to ensure that 
they are not being discriminated against, they are not able to 
stay in those homes. Then that means that we have family 
instability, which is not the outcome that we desire. We 
actually want to make sure we keep families together and that 
we empower them.
    They also, in many ways, support people that might not be 
biologically family and I think that is something that we 
really have to talk about. They are very generous, taking in 
neighbors. So they are having to hold whole communities----
    Ms. Pressley. Whole communities.
    Ms. Bailey [continuing]. together.
    Ms. Pressley. Excellent. Thank you for that.
    Ms. Bailey, across our country, more and more elderly 
people are becoming homeless. So we are talking about the role 
that they play in keeping families whole and providing 
stability to the community and to children, but it is also 
essential to their own stability. What we are seeing is a 
growing gray wave, where our elderly are representing the 
highest rising rate of homeless.
    Could you speak to these challenges and what are you seeing 
and getting in terms of keeping elderly folks in housing they 
can afford to live in?
    Ms. Bailey. I think the administration's most recent 
actions on Continuum of Care really, really should be alarming 
because, as you stated, many older Americans are increasingly 
becoming homeless. Many people are being left without any 
support and what we see is that the recent actions could add to 
those numbers.
    So we already have about 700,000-plus people in 
homelessness every day and the recent way that they have put 
out a proposal to redesign the program would only leave funding 
for about 30 percent.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay.
    Ms. Bailey. And the notice of funding opportunity literally 
cut the program's funding in half.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
    Ms. Bailey. So we can actually grow more homelessness by 
almost an additional 200,000 families just with those changes.
    Ms. Pressley. My goodness. Deeply consequential--and 
preventable.
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
    Recently, I joined Ranking Members Waters in urging the 
Department of Housing and Urban Development to avoid a gap in 
funding the Continuum of Care programs. In Boston, grantees 
rely on these funds to provide lifesaving housing assistance.
    I am calling on the administration to treat housing like 
the essential priority that it is. It is why I have worked with 
my colleagues to introduce bills like the Innovation Fund Act 
to improve housing supply, the Eviction Helpline Act to create 
a national support hotline, and the Appraisal Modernization 
Act, which would allow homeowners to seek a second appraisal 
when they suspect their home's value is underrepresented.
    These little-to no-cost bills help people remain housed and 
allow them to build wealth and maintain their homes, pass their 
homes down to their children, or move into new homes as their 
families expand.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr. Meuser, who is the 
chair of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you all for being here.
    So we are really trying to find solutions, not trying to 
come up with make-believe culpability.
    The fact is that the housing shortage began back in 2008 in 
the so-called Great Recession.
    Mr. Sears, you mentioned that there is a $100,000 cost 
before the shovel hits the dirt. Okay, that is not a tariff 
issue, right?
    Lumber, by the way, as you well know, 3 years ago, during a 
different administration, was at $1,500. Today, it is at $545. 
Last year, it was at $550. So it has come down, to an extent. 
So, yes, most homes are built with lumber.
    Inflation rose from 2021 to 2024 by 20 percent 
cumulatively. Cumulatively, over the last 10 months, with 
President Trump in office, inflation has gone up 2.4 percent. 
Okay?
    So let us just get all that straight.
    Interest rates were very, very high: went up quickly. That 
had a lot to do with people having a shock value of not buying 
homes and with the rapid inflation that took place, incomes did 
not keep up. So the idea of buying a home was very, very 
difficult.
    The fact is that we are short about 4.5 million homes and 
we are building about 1.4 million a year. So we need answers, 
not finger-pointing.
    So, Mr. Sears, from your perspective, here is just one 
thing I want to ask you, representing Realtors on the ground. 
When an American sells their home, $250,000 qualifies for 
capital gains, $500,000 for couples--in profit, that is. The 
rest is considered income. So 30 percent as opposed to, in 
capital gains, 33 percent.
    Should we work on that? Should that be corrected? Would 
that help?
    Mr. Sears. I would encourage this committee and all of 
Congress to support the More Homes on the Market Act. That 
would take a first stab at the antiquated capital-gains 
exclusion from 1997 and raise it to $500,000 and $1 million for 
a married couple.
    There is a proposal out there to eliminate taxes on home 
equity on your primary residence. We would support any of that 
but if we could get the More Homes on the Market Act approved, 
we would be very happy with that start.
    Mr. Meuser. Good. I agree, and I look forward to supporting 
that.
    Ms. Smith, rent control, I know that has been discussed 
plenty already, but housing--I heard housing quality. What 
lessons should we learn from what has occurred in New York, for 
instance?
    Ms. Smith. You could look right at Montgomery County, 
Maryland, right here in this area, that enacted rent control a 
year ago, and there is absolutely no investor interest at all 
in that community. That had been a very robust department, a 
market with very positive results, but the investor community 
has hopped across the bridge over to Virginia.
    Mr. Meuser. Okay. Thanks.
    Yes, while we were sitting here, I texted the Secretary, 
Scott Turner. When he was in his previous role, we worked on 
opportunity zones together. So I said, hey, why do we not try 
talking about some housing area, arena, opportunity zones? So 
creating that type of potential private-sector incentive.
    Mr. Sears, back to you. It is nearly impossible, 
homebuilders have told us, to deliver a home under $250,000. 
Permitting, financing rules have big impacts here on limiting 
affordable starter homes. Thoughts on that?
    Mr. Sears. Yes. Anytime there is red tape, delays in 
construction, difficult permitting that cause delays in this, 
there is a time value to money. So the builders are 
unfortunately fleeing away from starter homes and the missing 
middle homes, and they are going for the higher-end homes, 
where the profit margins are a little larger, but they can 
absorb these additional costs.
    I mean, listen, here is the thing: Housing represents 
nearly 20 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Every single 
transaction, residential transaction, that occurs generates 
approximately $90,000 of economic activity in every community 
across the country. So anything we can do to streamline it to 
get people into affordable homes will only be good for the 
economy.
    Mr. Meuser. Yes. I agree. I agree. Great multiplier effect, 
and very, very meaningful to quality of life and everything 
else.
    You look online, and there are right-leaning proposals--
well, we do not have to look online; we are Members of 
Congress. Everybody has different ideas and all, but this is 
important. It is something that we are really focusing on and 
we need to come up with. You have left-leaning proposals, you 
have centrist proposals--well, I am out of time.
    I just look forward to hearing more of your ideas on what 
we can do to help solve this contemporary problem.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Georgia, Ms. Williams, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank 
you, Ranking Member Waters, for holding this hearing today 
addressing the housing crisis that is impacting the entire 
country, y'all.
    Thank you to all of our witnesses today for coming to 
testify to provide your perspective on solutions because that 
is what the American people want when addressing this housing 
crisis.
    I know that we have had discussions in our Housing 
Subcommittee where we have had members mention their 
perspectives and their solutions to address housing 
affordability and the housing supply. While I am happy that 
most of my colleagues have talked about proposals to help build 
more housing, both for urban and rural communities, and 
creating more resources to make home ownership more 
affordable--I agree, as evidenced by legislation that I have 
introduced and co-led--I also think a crucial piece of the 
puzzle is ensuring that constituents have the tools to ensure 
that they can maintain and hold onto homes that are part of 
their family's legacy, which builds generational wealth.
    And that is why I have introduced bipartisan legislation, 
the Heirs Estate Inheritance Resolution and Succession (HEIRS) 
Act, to keep homes and families for generations to come and 
build that generational wealth.
    While I represent the Fighting Fifth District of Georgia, 
centered in Atlanta, which is a very urban area, y'all, I grew 
up in rural Alabama and so rural housing is important to me 
personally.
    The home that I grew up in the big city of Smiths Station, 
Alabama, did not have indoor plumbing or running water. I am 
hopeful that we will continue to have conversations around the 
Whole-Home Repairs Act that I am co-leading with Mr. Downing. I 
hope that legislation can be discussed and adopted.
    I also understand the need to tackle the housing crisis on 
multiple fronts.
    Ms. Bailey, what have you found are some of the best 
practices for designing mortgage programs that work for rural 
communities that also tackle the racial wealth gap and 
homeownership gap?
    Ms. Bailey. Thank you so much.
    I think your legislation, the HEIRS Act, is really critical 
for making sure we can preserve homeownership opportunities in 
rural communities.
    I think we need to make sure we are also utilizing special-
purpose credit programs. This is something that the Federal 
Housing Finance Agency removed liquidity for from the GSEs, and 
the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) just issued a 
proposal that would curb the use of special-purpose credit 
programs, despite them providing access to nearly 60,000 
borrowers with $82 million in savings, particularly for people 
who live in the South.
    What people do not realize is that people in the South have 
lower credit profiles than people across the Nation. What 
special-purpose credit programs allow lenders in those regions 
to do is to remove those unnecessary and arbitrary barriers and 
make sure they can create and design programs to well-serve 
those creditworthy consumers.
    So making sure we put forward the HEIRS Property Act that 
you have led and really is critical to helping preserve Black 
wealth, but also advancing special-purpose credit programs, it 
is extremely important. These programs have been adopted by 
lenders throughout the Nation. They have made a huge impact, 
trillions of dollars in impact.
    So we need to make sure we are providing the oversight over 
the CFPB and the Federal Housing Finance Agency to make sure 
these critical programs can continue.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Ms. Bailey.
    Mortgage lenders serving residents living in rural 
communities and majority-Black areas know that some homes are 
not even eligible for traditional mortgage financing, so these 
programs are extremely important.
    Many families in the Black community also face challenges 
with estate planning, leading to situations where property is 
inherited informally as heirs' property, as we have discussed. 
So that is why I am still hopeful, Mr. Chairman, that this 
legislation will be brought before the committee so that we can 
move it forward, because it is truly bipartisan.
    I also understand, Ms. Bailey, that transformation of 
heirs' property into formal ownership can contribute to long-
term wealth accumulation and financial security for 
marginalized communities and so I hope that we can continue to 
gain support from all of the people here, the experts here, 
because that is something that I have found that we all agree 
on.
    Mr. Sears, recently, I introduced the Whole-Home Repairs 
Act with my colleague Representative Troy Downing, which would 
establish a pilot program to empower homeowners to make 
critical repairs, ensuring that homes are safe, efficient, and 
remain livable.
    Can you explain why access to lower-cost financing for home 
repairs is essential for not only homeowner safety and 
stability but also to preserve affordable housing in our 
communities and prevent displacement?
    Mr. Sears. Ms. Williams, I am happy to say that the 
National Association of Realtors supports your legislation.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you.
    Mr. Sears. Here is the reality: If we do not assist these 
people to be able to maintain their home, we could lose another 
precious housing unit on the market.
    So anything we can do to incentivize them to rehabilitate, 
to fix up their home, to make it stronger and can handle storms 
and natural disasters, the better off the entire community will 
be, and the homeowner.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. I agree, Mr. Sears.
    My time is up. I have more questions for all of our 
witnesses that I will submit for the record.
    Thank you so much.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields.
    The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thanks to the panel. Thank you for being here today. I know 
it is a long morning and early afternoon, I guess, so--and I 
apologize if some of the questions have some redundancy, but 
one of the biggest barriers to improving affordability is the 
sheer lack of developmental lots. That is something I see in 
the district all the time.
    I have draft legislation to create a no-interest, 
revolving, mezzanine loan fund to help responsible developers 
overcome the up-front capital constraints that keep lot 
development out of reach, especially for projects with lot 
costs under $100,000.
    Mr. Sears, I know we have talked about this in the past, 
but can you just--how would increasing the supply of just 
buildable lots through this type of, like, targeted and 
repayable financing impact the entry-level home prices?
    Mr. Sears. Simple economics, supply and demand. The more 
supply we have, the more of an impact it will have on the 
affordability.
    So, if we can designate these lots and get them designated 
to be buildable and then get the builders in there, that will 
help with the missing homes that we are looking for, whether it 
is the entry-level or the missing middle.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. It is very evident that the underground 
portion of any new subdivision just adds astronomical costs to 
the overall development.
    Have you guys seen any strategies on municipalities working 
with developers or, kind of, any new ideas out there when it 
comes to just developing lots in general?
    Mr. Sears. Well, as I mentioned earlier, the coalition that 
we had for the ``Housing Accelerator'' playbook, where we have 
over four dozen examples of the way that municipalities have 
worked with builders and other governmental agencies in order 
to streamline the process.
    I do not know for sure if we have an example about the 
infrastructure issue in there, but anything that can be done to 
reduce the cost of infrastructure or to assist in that would be 
greatly appreciated and will help with construction of more 
units.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Oh, very good.
    I have been working on legislation to release GSE 
conservatorships, and the goal of a bill that I have right now 
is simply to protect taxpayers--codify the strong reforms that 
we have already had administratively, but take away the 
incentives to stray from their charter--by making Fannie and 
Freddie utilities and allow the GSEs to operate under the 
reforms.
    So your members work directly, I know, with families to 
become homeowners. This legislation aims to build on the 
reforms already in place by moving Fannie and Freddie into 
utility-style entities. It also is preserving the limited and 
paid-for government backstop through the Preferred Stock 
Purchase Agreements (PSPAs).
    How could this kind of utility model strengthen stability 
in the secondary mortgage market and ultimately help more 
families access affordable home ownership?
    Mr. Sears. Yes, I know that them coming out of 
conservatorship has been something we have talked about for a 
long time, but we would fully support the utility-type model.
    With that said, what we would want to make sure is that the 
30-year fixed-rate mortgage remains a bedrock of the financing 
that is available. We would also want to make sure that there 
is the government guarantee.
    Finally, if there is any revenue that is generated from 
this, we would ask that we make sure that money is geared 
toward housing and used for public-private partnerships 
because, from what I understand, anytime there are these types 
of partnerships, the private sector will put in 10 times the 
amount of money as the Federal Government. So we could be 
talking about trillions of dollars of influx into the housing 
economy.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Just one more, kind of, tail question would 
be: From your vantage point, what are the most burdensome 
regulatory barriers that are actively preventing builders from 
actually moving forward?
    I know they work with Realtors, kind of, in the marketing 
of some of these new developments but what still is, kind of, 
the hardcore thing that really needs to be repealed for this 
stuff to move forward?
    Mr. Sears. A universal one across the country that scares 
builders and investors is rent control.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Absolutely.
    Thank you so much.
    Mr. Sears. Thank you.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairman.
    We all have been talking about boosting our housing supply, 
but we know it is of little value to someone who cannot get a 
mortgage because of their skin color or cannot rent an 
apartment because they have a disability. I know people want to 
pretend it is not happening anymore, but it is.
    The administration is deliberately undermining the 
enforcement of our fair housing laws. You know, this is 
incredibly important because we know that settlements against 
banks have been done in closed doors, from folks giving higher 
interest rates to folks coming in if they have an accent.
    Was that not Wells Fargo, Ms. Bailey, that got sued for 
that, lost? They settled out of court because they did not want 
the public to know.
    In May, ProPublica reported that the administration was 
halting their fair housing investigations, allowing hotlines to 
go unmonitored, preventing staff travel to identify witnesses, 
and ending compliance reviews to ensure housing developers' 
practices and policies are illegal.
    In September, The New York Times reported that employees 
from the HUD's Office of Fair Housing, quote, said that ``Trump 
political appointees had made it nearly impossible for them to 
do their jobs.'' A week later, the administration fired two HUD 
whistleblowers who spoke out about the administration's gutting 
of fair housing enforcement capacity.
    We cannot sit here and act like this is not happening.
    Ms. Bailey, is the Fair Housing Act being enforced right 
now?
    Ms. Bailey. No, ma'am.
    Can I just say, it is not being enforced at a time when 
complaints of housing discrimination that are led by people 
with disabilities are up. So we are at near-record levels of 
complaints about housing discrimination, and complaints based 
on disability continue to lead. Complaints based on national 
origin are also on a significant rise.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes, I was going to ask you about trends right 
now, and I heard that was one of them.
    Now I want to talk about CFPB, because I think that is also 
really important. We know that the CFPB recent proposed rule on 
Regulation B of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act was important.
    Ms. Bailey, can you talk about some of the proposed changes 
and what did the proposed rule basically allow banks to redline 
again?
    Ms. Bailey. Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much for this 
question, because this is one where I think every woman in our 
country should be alarmed.
    The Equal Credit Opportunity Act made it possible for women 
to get access to credit without needing a male cosigner. It is 
baby, in terms of the years of enforcement.
    Ms. Tlaib. I just want people to know: We could not get 
loans without a man signing the loan with us. Just remember 
that.
    I know, Ms. Smith. I cringe too.
    Go ahead, Ms. Bailey.
    Ms. Bailey. So, for 50 years, we have had this legislation 
that has made credit more accessible, and it has allowed us to 
use fair lending practices that simply made lending fairer. It 
removed obstacles and made lenders help them to choose the 
less-discriminatory alternative and what they have since been 
able to do is design programs that are really profitable.
    Ms. Tlaib. That is literally my next question. I would----
    Mr. Sears. Ms. Tlaib----
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes?
    Mr. Sears [continuing]. could I just say for the record 
that what we are seeing statistically is that the largest 
growth sector for buyers here in the United States are single 
women. In fact, single women are three times more likely to buy 
a home than single men.
    So we are going in the right direction. I would just like 
to say that.
    Ms. Tlaib. Okay.
    Well, Ms. Bailey, because you noted the Black-White 
homeownership gap. I mean, Michigan lost more Black home 
ownership during the last recession than any State in our 
Union, but it is higher now, the lack of Black home ownership 
is higher now, than before the passage of the Fair Housing Act 
and that just makes--is so unsettling, to hear that.
    So simply reducing what they call ``roadblocks'' and 
supporting more of what they have been doing will not cut it. I 
wish my colleagues would understand that, even though they 
think everybody is alone--it is actually still happening 
through the banks and through these institutions and that is 
why we have to create laws to push back against it.
    Ms. Bailey. We were making tremendous progress.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes. Yes.
    Ms. Bailey. We increased Black home ownership for the first 
time since the Great Recession of 2008. It grew from 2019 
through 2024. The Black homeownership rate grew 14.29 percent. 
That was incredible work that a whole group of us came 
together--this committee's leadership, leadership at the 
Federal Housing Finance Agency under Director Thompson, 
leadership at HUD under Secretary Marcia Fudge.
    So we can do things that are going to give people fair 
opportunities, and they may ultimately benefit everyone. What 
we know for sure is that discrimination distorts and if we 
solve for discrimination targeted at Black communities alone, 
our entire economy will grow by $5 trillion over a 5-year 
period.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes. I know, for many of our families, it really 
does create a lot of economic stability to be able to own our 
own home.
    Thank you. I yield.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Huizenga, who is the vice 
chair of the entire full committee, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Huizenga. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and there is a lot to 
unpack.
    I actually have some personal involvement in the industry. 
When I graduated with my oh-so-employable political science 
degree--pause for chuckles from other political science 
majors--I went into real estate full-time. My family has been 
involved in construction for a very long time. I have done a 
number of single-family housing developments. Mostly recently, 
our family did a duplex/triplex/multifamily development--24 
units, small but I have a lot of personal stories surrounding 
some of those barriers that exist.
    Before I go into that, I do feel like I need to address a 
couple of the points that were made by my colleague from 
Michigan. Mr. Sears, you made one of those, and I believe Ms. 
Bailey actually buttressed that, which is heading in the right 
direction.
    I know when I got my Realtor's license in the early 1990s, 
I was taught something very important: You do not look at 
color. You do not look at national origin. There is one 
standard, and it is green. Either people can afford it or they 
cannot afford it.
    We have seen government policies both make it harder and, 
frankly, way too easy to get loans that people should not have 
gotten. I am not saying that they should not have gotten a 
loan, but that they got a loan that they could not afford and 
that has caused a significant part of that.
    When my colleague is talking about the dip in home 
ownership in Michigan, which was across all races, that was 
part of the reason we had people that had ARMs that could not 
afford them. We have had to step in to tighten that up and that 
pains me, as someone who literally sold houses for a living and 
still develops housing and still is involved in construction at 
a level.
    Ms. Smith, I am going to start with you. In your written 
testimony, you noted that regulatory burdens have been a major 
contributor to the slowdown in new housing production.
    I had that. I have had where a township came in and said, 
``Oh, I am sorry, we know that this is not legal, but we are 
going to double-assess your property because it is on a 
corner.''
    Ms. Smith. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Huizenga. ``Oh, and you want to fight us? Do you know 
how much that is going to cost in court? So, tell you what. Why 
do you not just give us some extra money, and we will go 
away.''
    You want to know where those additional costs went? Right 
into the cost of the lots.
    Ms. Smith. That is correct.
    Mr. Huizenga. Not to mention, ``Oh, we think the sight 
lines are not good. So we would like you to spend tens of 
thousands of dollars to take down a road, a hill, so it is not 
as steep, so we have better sight lines.'' When I 
inconveniently pointed out that maybe that was the county road 
commission, the answer was, ``Yes, but we think you ought to do 
it.''
    Ms. Smith. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Huizenga. All right?
    Not to the mention when we are talking our values of 
insulation and all of the other requirements that have been put 
in place. There are some structural issues that have caused 
decline in home ownership that have to be addressed.
    So I just wanted to point that out that I appreciated your 
take on this.
    I only have a minute and 30 left, and I have to go through 
this very quickly.
    I want to hit on one thing. When Secretary Fudge testified 
before our committee last Congress, I pressed her on a local 
housing project in Benton Harbor, Michigan, called Harbor 
Towers. Although it did get some immediate press and media 
attention, almost 2 years later, at the start of the 
multimillion-dollar project to rehab it, it continues to be 
stalled. We are working with this administration now to try to 
make that unstuck, but I can tell you firsthand that this 
housing complex is in dire need of immediate renovations.
    It should not take an act of Congress to have Federal or 
any housing projects move forward, but what can Congress do to 
tackle some of these barriers at the Federal level?
    Ms. Smith. I think one of the things it can do is to make 
sure that there are incentives at the local level because so 
many of the regulations that you are talking about are done at 
local permitting departments and that sort of thing, and it can 
really vary depending on where you are.
    So having, like, real incentives to be able to fast-track 
projects and be able to get them built quickly without a lot of 
onerous requirements would make a big difference.
    We have also found that tax abatements are incredibly 
impactful, particularly when we are looking at, like, 
conversions from office buildings to residential, et cetera.
    Mr. Huizenga. My time is expiring, and, Mr. Peter, I am 
going to have to go to you about the increase in private 
capital coming into this. I will take those as written.
    I appreciate what you are doing. We have to tackle this 
issue as a Nation.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Torres, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The single greatest challenge confronting our country is 
the affordability crisis, a crisis so severe that it has become 
the death sentence for the American Dream.
    If you were born in 1940, you had a 90-percent chance of 
out-earning your parents but for Americans born since 1980, 
that fighting chance at the American Dream has collapsed to 
less than 50 percent. The American Dream is dying of cost 
disease, and the leading cause of death is the cost of housing.
    For proof, look no further than America's largest city, New 
York, which has become dangerously unaffordable for working 
families. From 2005 to 2024, the population of New Yorkers ages 
5 and under fell by one-third. From 2010 to 2020, 20 percent of 
Black children and teenagers disappeared from the New York City 
census count.
    America is experiencing a reverse migration. In the early 
20th century, African Americans fled the South for the North in 
order to escape Jim Crow. Now, in the 21st century, African 
Americans are fleeing the North in order to escape the 
affordability crisis.
    The scale of the need for affordable housing in America, 
and especially in New York, cannot be overstated. When the New 
York City Housing Authority reopened the Section 8 waiting list 
in June 2024 for the first time in 15 years, a staggering 
600,000 people rushed to apply.
    In the Bronx, the East Clarke Place Senior Residence 
received a staggering 26,000 applications for just 84 units, a 
ratio of 300 to 1. When 300 families are left desperately 
chasing after a single unit, that is not a housing market; that 
is a humanitarian crisis, pure and simple.
    Mr. Sears, what is the National Association of Realtors' 
latest estimate of the gap between housing supply and housing 
demand?
    Mr. Sears. Mr. Torres, the last 3 years, the National 
Association of Realtors reports that on average of around 4 
million units have sold. The typical average year is 5.3 
million. So just in the last 3 years there have been almost 5 
million--I am sorry--almost 4 million units that have not been 
on the market for consumers to buy.
    Mr. Torres. So over 4 to 5 million units in the aggregate. 
Of course, when we speak about affordable housing, the question 
that my constituents often ask is, affordable for whom? Most of 
the affordable housing that we create is often unaffordable to 
the poorest families in America. The National Low-Income 
Housing Coalition estimates a housing gap of over 7 million 
units for the lowest-income families.
    So, even though the United States has a deficit of more 
than 7 million deeply affordable rental homes, Federal spending 
on expanding the housing supply amounts to a mere fraction of a 
percent of the Federal budget--a mere fraction.
    Ms. Bailey, do you think that housing should only receive a 
fraction of a percent of the Federal budget?
    Ms. Bailey. No, not at all. It is only getting less than 2 
percent. Housing is a fundamental right. As we heard, it is 
accounting for nearly 20 percent of our Nation's GDP. 
Instability in the housing market means instability in the 
economy.
    If you would permit me----
    Mr. Torres. Sure.
    Ms. Bailey [continuing]. there was a statement made earlier 
that people only see green. Our lending experiences and our 
housing experiences show that discrimination complaints are at 
record highs. People see people for who they are, how they show 
up, and they choose to treat them differently oftentimes based 
on their immutable characteristics but also, to your point, 
their source of income.
    Mr. Torres. I also think history flatly contradicts the 
notion that the free market was sufficient to abolish Jim Crow, 
but--you know. That is why we needed the Voting Rights Act and 
the Civil Rights Act.
    But given the----
    Ms. Bailey. The Fair Housing Act and the Equal Credit 
Opportunity Act----
    Mr. Torres. Exactly right.
    Ms. Bailey [continuing]. and the Home Disclosure Mortgage--
you know, we could go on.
    Mr. Torres. All of which are under assault.
    Given the decades of disinvestment from affordable housing, 
do you think Congress has been part of the solution or part of 
the problem?
    Ms. Bailey. So Congress did something brilliant during the 
CARES Act and the American Rescue Plan. Congress put in an 
infrastructure--this committee, under the leadership of then-
Chairwoman Waters and then when she was ranking member, put 
together an infrastructure that allowed us to maintain people 
at home.
    During the COVID crisis, that funding was so critical that 
we maintain renters. It is so important because, as we know, 
most renters have little savings. So, if we do things like go 
in today and take back those CARES Act provisions that limit 
the ability to evict families, we are putting more people at 
jeopardy of homelessness. We are ultimately going to pay for 
that.
    We did right by veterans, and now we need to take those 
same lessons and apply those to our lowest-income renters.
    Mr. Torres. I just want to end quickly. Look, I am all for 
regulatory reform, but we need regulatory reform in addition to 
reinvestment, not in the place of reinvestment. Let us not 
create a false choice where one needs not exist.
    Mr. Flood [presiding]. The gentleman's time is expired.
    Mr. Torres. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman from 
California, Mrs. Kim, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member, for 
hosting this hearing, and I want to thank all of you for 
joining us. We are almost done.
    California's housing market is one of the worst in the 
Nation, and as a Member who represents California, it saddens 
me to say that, just last month, California earned an F rating 
for housing affordability. You know, since I got here as a 
Member, I have fought relentlessly for housing affordability at 
the Federal level, but there is only so much that we can do 
when Sacramento and Gavin Newsom are driving so many failed 
policies.
    Earlier this year, as you know, when we were working on One 
Big Beautiful Bill, I secured four times increase in the SALT 
deductions to $40,000 to make home ownership in California more 
attainable.
    Mr. Sears, as you know, I represent Orange, San Bernadino, 
and Riverside Counties. In my area, a family needs to make 
$367,000 to afford a medium-priced single-family home, and I 
want you to please discuss what the effects of increasing the 
SALT deduction to $40,000 means for housing affordability for 
constituents like mine.
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Ms. Kim. Good to see you again.
    Mrs. Kim. Good to see you.
    Mr. Sears. Yes, the increase in SALT from $10,000 to 
$40,000 is very important, as well as securing the mortgage 
interest deduction in the bill passed this year. These are very 
real costs, and I always find it ironic that citizens would 
have to pay taxes on taxes they have already paid. So anything 
that can be done to increase that. In 2017, when the Tax Cut 
and Jobs Act was put into place and the $10,000 limit was 
there, there was no indexing for inflation. Again, 
unfortunately, I do not see an indexing for inflation now.
    We do know, based on historical numbers, the cost of 
housing and housing ownership is going to go up. I would 
encourage the Congress to look at any tax measures like this to 
bring up to date, to put indexing in along with the capital 
gains exclusion that was set in 1997. Thank you.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you very much. You know, as tax filing 
season begins, I hope that Californians remember to utilize 
this key deduction to attain their dreams of home ownership and 
keep more of their hard-earned dollars in their pockets.
    During the recent California fires, there are short-term 
rentals. They play critical role in providing emergency housing 
for displaced residents, fire responders, and relief workers. 
So a question to you, Ms. Smith, how can Congress better 
support and scale partnerships between State agencies, local 
governments, in short-term rental platforms to ensure that 
flexible housing options remain available during natural 
disasters?
    Ms. Smith. Yes, it is a very good question, Representative 
Kim. We, after the wildfires, we housed so many people in our 
Santa Monica communities, and Santa Monica had a 12-month lease 
requirement, and so we had to actually work around that to be 
able to have people sign leases and letting them know that they 
could break their lease so that they could have any lease term 
that they needed in addition to lowering any type of deposit or 
application fees or that sort of thing. One thing Congress 
could do would be to work with local jurisdictions, 
particularly on their lease length requirements, so, when there 
is a natural disaster or something like that, that would--that 
could be overridden so you could have shorter lease lengths and 
working with the short-term providers on streamlining access to 
housing so that they could get into housing very, very quickly. 
I think there are a lot of incentives that would be very, very 
impactful.
    Mrs. Kim. Another incentive that I co-led with my colleague 
Representative Lawler is the Community Investment and 
Prosperity Act. This bill would increase the public welfare 
investment cap on banks from 15 percent to 20 percent. That 
would enable further investments into the LITC, low-income tax 
credit.
    Mrs. Smith, again, to you, how would the passage of the 
Community Investment and Prosperity Act help address the 
shortage of affordable housing units that our country faces?
    Ms. Smith. I cannot speak directly to the act, but we have 
done a fair amount of low-income LITC work over the years, and 
one of the things that is very--it is a fantastic program. It 
has probably been one of the most effective programs in 
producing affordable housing, but one of the challenges is 
lining up all of the capital sources, because it all has----
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman's time has expired. The 
gentlewoman's time has expired.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The gentlewoman 
from Texas, Ms. Garcia, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all 
the witnesses today, and I apologize I had to step out for a 
few minutes. I hope that some of the areas that I am going to 
cover are not going to be redundant, but I know my first words 
will not be redundant. Mi casa, su casa, a simple phrase that 
is used in my community to simply be proud of their home and 
make it a welcoming home. It simply says ``my house is your 
house.'' In reality, we are currently facing a severe shortage 
of affordable homes, made worse by wages that have not kept up 
with skyrocketing rents.
    Mr. Sears, you put it another way. You said the American 
Dream is slipping away. Our job, of course, is to make sure 
that we ensure that dream for everyone. So I could not agree 
more. Earlier this year, the Housing Subcommittee heard 
directly from the National Association of Home Builders on the 
impact that this administration's mass deportations and the 
very fear of deportations have on housing construction. Mr. 
Sears, you and I both agree the construction workforce is 
stretched thin. The construction trades agree, especially when 
61 percent of plasterers and 61 percent of drywalling and 
ceiling installers in the workforce are immigrants. A recent 
survey found that 92 percent of construction firms cannot find 
enough workers.
    As a district that has the distinction of having the most 
construction workers in the country, I am very concerned about 
this. So, Mr. Sears, do you think that this fear of deportation 
is an obstacle and a barrier to the supply chain, and should we 
not in housing also consider that?
    Mr. Sears. Here is the reality, Ms. Garcia. The average age 
of an American tradesperson is--they are in their 50s. We have 
not done a good job of developing the young people to get into 
the trade. So we need to do that, and what the--what we are all 
for is making sure that the skilled tradespeople that we need--
--
    Ms. Garcia. I did not ask about the trades. I am asking you 
specifically about the fear of deportation, work sites that do 
not have--that the workers there because they are afraid of 
coming to work. I know about work training. I have done this 
work for a lot for a long time.
    Mr. Sears. I am not in a position to speak about 
deportation. I am sorry, Ms. Garcia.
    Ms. Garcia. So you have not read that people are being 
raided at work sites?
    Mr. Sears. What I would encourage the administration to do 
is to allow skilled workers to be able to legally work here in 
the country, whatever that takes. If the Congress can do 
something, I would encourage them to do that.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, I am intrigued, because all of you all 
have been talking all morning, and you all have not faced up to 
the worker shortage, and if 91 percent of the workers are 
immigrants, it seems to me that it is an obstacle and an issue 
that we also need to address at some level here in this 
committee. I am on the subcommittee, as you know, on Housing 
and Insurance and you--we really should not dance around it. 
The reality is, if you do not have the builders, then you are 
not going to have the homes.
    Mr. Sears. One hundred percent.
    Ms. Garcia. Well, you do agree with that. Good. Sir, do you 
think that we should be looking at that?
    Mr. Sears. In order to keep skilled workers in the country? 
Absolutely.
    Ms. Garcia. No. In order to make sure that we can build 
homes.
    Mr. Sears. We need to build more homes, yes. How do we do 
that? We need the workforce. So any workforce that we have or 
can encourage to be here, we need to do that.
    Ms. Garcia. All right. Well, let me move on to another one 
that you all seem to be dancing around is this whole tariff 
issue, because we also had--I specifically asked the 
homebuilders this question too. Tax Policy Center found that 
tariffs would add roughly $30 billion, $30 billion to the cost 
of investment in rent additional structures or about $8,000 to 
$10,000 per home because, as we know, the white lumber that is 
used for framing most homes comes from Canada, and Canada, I 
believe, had the 10 percent and then plus another 20, 25 
percent. I think Mr. Sherman went through a lot of this. Ms. 
Smith, since you represented multifamily housing, how are 
tariffs impacting your bottom line?
    Ms. Smith. Well, we are trying to figure that out. I did 
want to make a comment about the immigration because not only 
do we need people to build homes but we also need people to 
take care of homes. So, in the multifamily environment, we have 
teams of maintenance workers who are keeping up these 
communities and making sure that people's homes are well cared 
for, and it is very dependent particularly on legal immigrant 
labor.
    Ms. Garcia. All right. So let us get back to your bottom 
line. Tariffs have impacted the----
    Ms. Smith. We believe that they will have a significant 
impact, but like I said, the subs are having a hard time----
    Ms. Garcia. Do you agree that it is going to be between 
$8,000 and $10,000 per home?
    Ms. Smith. We do not know. We do not know because they 
move--they are moving around so much we do not really know.
    Ms. Garcia. Mr. Chairman, I would ask for more detail in 
that response from the witness.
    Mr. Flood. Without objection.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields back.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. We have heard a lot 
from our witnesses today about different policy ideas and 
regulatory barriers that hold back the development of more 
housing. I think at the core of many of these ideas is one 
basic fact: We need to build more housing. I mean, it is 
simple. There are many factors that have led to our current 
environment where housing supplies failed to keep up with 
demand. While some of those factors are beyond the remit of 
Congress, there is a universal--there is a universe of Federal 
barriers to housing supply that we are working on addressing in 
this committee. I want to spend my time today focusing 
specifically on one of those Federal barriers that I feel is 
worth some attention: Build America, Buy America, or BABA. 
These requirements were enacted as part of the Infrastructure 
Investment and Jobs Act signed by President Biden in 2021. The 
statute states that BABA applies to infrastructure, but a 
decision by the previous administration has applied Buy America 
requirements to Federal housing projects in addition to hard 
infrastructure projects. Sadly, that decision has had 
disastrous effects.
    While a hard and fast BABA requirement may make sense when 
building a bridge made of steel and concrete, it makes less 
sense when you think about all the different components that go 
into building a home. Fundamentally, this policy betrays a 
basic reality of Federal housing programs. If we are aiming to 
take finite Federal resources and use them to build housing, we 
need to be able to scale those dollars as efficiently as 
possible to make it work. In other words, in order to build 
more affordable housing, we must use Federal resources to build 
housing affordably.
    I recently asked affordable housing groups to bring my 
office anecdotes demonstrating the effects of BABA on projects, 
and I would like to take a moment to share some of those 
stories. One developer in the southwestern United States had 
this to say about BABA costs, and I quote, For a 60-unit 
affordable housing development, we estimate these soft costs 
could be in upwards of $250,000. For example, each project will 
now need to hire a BABA consultant to manage the waivers. That 
is 50 to $100,000 a project. General contractors will need to 
increase their administrative time on projects to manage 
compliance, another $100,000, and architects and designers will 
have additional administrative time, another $50,000.
    We heard the following about a project in Massachusetts 
related to BABA costs, and I quote: The BABA materials cost 
increase is estimated to be $193,000, a 17.7 percent increase 
or greater than one-fifth of the home HUD award that triggered 
the BABA requirement.
    We heard this about a project in Wisconsin: For a 45-unit 
project with a construction budget of around $8.5 million, the 
BABA impact was estimated at over $400,000. The home award that 
would trigger BABA requirements was around $700,000. So more 
than half of the Federal home partnership program money would 
be used to pay for BABA compliance.
    We heard this about a project in California. Quote: On one 
project in central California, 80 units, BABA requirements 
resulted in an increase of approximately $1.3 million, and we 
heard this about a project in Montana. Quote, A project to 
provide homes to families experiencing homelessness lost the 
opportunity to use $360,000 of a $1.3 million housing trust 
fund grant that expired on September 30, 2025. The contractor 
was unable to find products made in the U.S. to complete the 
utility work in time because U.S. products were on back order.
    I have more of these. I could go on and on and on, but the 
reality is that, however well-intentioned it may be, BABA is 
driving up the cost of projects, wasting Federal dollars that 
could be going to building more housing. In some cases, it is 
even killing projects entirely.
    With the little time I have, Mr. Sears, Ms. Smith, Mr. 
Peter, can you briefly please share with us your opinion on the 
costs associated with the Build American, Buy America 
requirements for affordable housing projects. Mr. Sears.
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Flood. While the BABA rules were 
well-intended and I think meant for a larger infrastructure, 
the reality is, is that, when builders get stuck waiting for 
waivers or searching for substitutes or having to pay higher 
prices, the impact goes right down to the end consumer.
    Mr. Flood. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Smith.
    Ms. Smith. Yes. We have been talking to our subs, and we 
think that the increased premium would be somewhere around 4 to 
5 percent.
    Mr. Flood. Thank you.
    Mr. Peter.
    Mr. Peter. Yes, I agree. I mean, all the levels of 
government just need to get out of the way, and you highlighted 
a great example there.
    Mr. Flood. Well, I appreciate everybody being here. I 
appreciate my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. While we 
may have disagreements on policy, this committee is functioning 
the way I had hoped Congress would work before I got here. So, 
with that, I yield back.
    The gentleman from California, Mr. Liccardo, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the 
chair, both the subcommittee chair as well as the full 
committee chair, for their collaboration. We do not hear that 
word very often in this Congress, and I think, in this 
committee, there is some collaboration, and I really want to 
thank them for their leadership as well as the Ranking Member 
Waters and Ranking Member Cleaver for their very strong 
leadership.
    In particular, we are taking this housing crisis like it is 
a crisis. Perhaps not all the ideas and solutions I would 
prefer are on the table. I understand that is how it works when 
you are not in the majority, but I appreciate the fact that we 
are actually seeing legislation that will be soon coming to 
markup. I am very eager to see that happen and hopefully very 
soon also to the floor, and I want to thank in particular Chair 
Flood for reaching out even to a rookie like me or very early 
on to say we are interested in all our committee's ideas. So, I 
appreciate that effort.
    Obviously, I come from--I know we all probably come from a 
place that is affected by the housing crisis. I am from Silicon 
Valley. We consider ourselves sort of the ground zero of it, 
and there are many fingers to be pointed in different 
directions. We can all talk about supply and the urgency of 
more supply, and I will agree with everything everybody says 
about more supply.
    I am still of the viewpoint that I have not seen an 
economist who thinks that, if we do everything right on supply, 
we are going to see rents fall by more than 10 or 15 percent 
over half a decade and we are still going to have 13 million 
households that are extremely low income that are never going 
to be able to afford market rate rents. So we have to do 
something about things like vouchers, which are badly 
underserving right now our country. I think only one out of 
every four families that actually qualifies gets a voucher. 
Yes, we do need some demand-side solutions as well, 
unfortunately, because the market is just not going to fix it 
all, and no matter how well we fix the market or allow the 
market to operate.
    I do really want to thank and appreciate the fact that and 
thank leadership for the fact that we have several bills that I 
have been leading or co-leading that are in consideration. 
There are other additional bills I am hoping we can discuss in 
the future, including the Unlock Act, H.R. 5150, that Chair 
Flood and I introduced to better utilize existing Federal 
resources for housing construction, which really resulted from 
local response to a request for information (RFI) that the 
chair and Ranking Member Cleaver issued, and a city in my own 
community, city of Mountain View, responded and identified some 
challenges they have, barriers to CDBG, and we are trying to 
fix those. I appreciate the process they started, and I want to 
make sure we finish it. That is responding to local needs.
    Coming soon, there is going to be a bill under draft now to 
incentivize conversions of office and commercial space to 
housing, and I look forward to working with my committee 
colleagues to make that happen, and I really want to 
appreciate, first, Ms. Smith, your company is my landlord. So I 
am hoping that you will let your colleagues and accounts 
receivable know that the check is in the mail.
    I want to appreciate, Mr. Sears, realtors have been very 
supportive of a couple bills that Chairman Flood and I have 
worked on, H.R. 4810 and 4660, both to streamline reviews for 
affordable projects, federally assisted affordable projects. We 
appreciate that. I wanted to ask if you could go back to your 
colleagues over at the realtors and take a look at H.R.--I am 
sorry--H.R. 4568, the Supply Act. You might have guessed I 
introduced it with Congressman Garbarino, another bipartisan 
bill, and this is to expand FHA mortgage insurance to finance 
second lien loans for accessory dwelling units--comes from my 
experience as a former mayor of a large city in San Jose with a 
million folks, and we have a housing crisis, and we thought one 
solution might be to try to make it easier for homeowners to be 
able to get permits and build ADUs or granny flats, as they are 
often known, and what we discovered when we went to the private 
sector, and lots of prefabricated companies came forward with 
20 different models. We put those models on our website, and we 
allowed homeowners to be able to get their permits in a day by 
going online because we streamlined in advance all the 
permitting and approvals so folks could get them. We saw a huge 
increase in permits that went from 15 a year to about 900 a 
year. We thought we are really on to something, and we were 
patting ourselves on the back, and then we discovered only 
about half of them got built because homeowners could not get 
financing, especially if they were modest income. They did not 
have enough equity.
    We know that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac get in this game, 
we could see a real opportunity and explosion that could enable 
many homeowners to become home providers, and I know that is 
something that the realtors might care about, and so I very 
much appreciate the realtors' engagement on this.
    Mr. Sears. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Lawler, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Lawler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Housing affordability is a serious crisis in our Nation 
right now and gets to the heart of the affordability concerns 
being felt by most Americans. For many, it is the most 
difficult time to purchase a home in a generation, and at the 
heart of this crisis is supply. We are probably over 8 million 
units underbuilt nationwide at the moment, and this is despite 
massive Federal spending to support housing. Over $1.2 trillion 
spent on programs run by HUD since 2000. It is going to take a 
serious reevaluation and reform of our Federal involvement in 
housing to actually focus on the substantive issue, which is 
supply. This has been a key priority of mine, and I am proud to 
have several bills that are attached to this hearing.
    In focusing on unleashing construction to meet our needs, 
we need to be ensuring that we are taking a comprehensive 
review of housing policy and spending, hearing from the 
Secretary and looking not just at the critical programs that 
support low-income housing, but at middle class housing and 
workforce housing as well, housing for the elderly, housing for 
the Intellectual and Developmental Disabilities (IDD) 
community, housing in all communities across our country which 
have unique needs.
    At this time of years--at a time in which we have seen 
raised rates, sustained affordability concerns in the ongoing 
battle to finish bringing down inflation, middle-income buyers 
face a unique challenge causing them to fall through the 
cracks: not poor enough for assistance, not wealthy enough to 
compete. I would echo Ms. Wagner's sentiment from earlier in 
the hearing that we need to pursue reforms that could expand 
attainable home ownership for middle-income buyers.
    Mr. Peter, expanding beyond your earlier answer on 
minimizing lot sizes, how can we ensure we are incentivizing 
the financing and construction of starter homes?
    Mr. Peter. Thank you for the question, sir. The short 
answer is, if we have smaller lots, the builders are going to 
build. That is what we are finding across the country, and we 
do not necessarily need Federal programs. In California, we 
just heard about it. ADUs came out of nowhere, and the people 
find the financing. The same in Seattle, where, back in the 
1990s, zoning law was changed, and the private sectors filled a 
vacuum by providing financing for the builders.
    Mr. Lawler. How can Federal reporting or data collection 
help identify where regulatory barriers exist without implying 
that Washington should dictate how towns and counties plan 
their neighborhoods? New York is a home rule State. I support 
home rule. I support local control of zoning, but how do we 
take the data and actually utilize it in a constructive way?
    Mr. Peter. Yes. So, from our case studies, we have 
distilled the lesson, what we call the housing abundance 
success sequence. It is very simple. You need to allow by right 
zoning; so take the discretion away. The second is you need to 
allow smaller lot sizes, and the third one is you need to allow 
faster permitting and keep it short and simple regulations. 
Once you make it complex and complicated, only the people--only 
the builders with large staff can navigate it. If you keep it 
short and simple, then small builders that may be lawn care 
professionals today might see the opportunity to get into the 
game and build housing. So we do not need a lot more research 
on this. We already know what works.
    Mr. Lawler. I appreciate that. One other measure that has 
had a disastrous impact in New York, for instance, that 
disincentivizes investment in housing and contributes to 
greater housing scarcity is rent control and the concept of 
freezing the rent, which seemingly is all the rage in New York 
City right now. We have seen, in New York City, for instance, 
50,000 vacant units as a result of New York's rent control laws 
that were passed in 2019.
    Mr. Sears, as we prepare for the Mamdani regime to take 
over New York City, can you speak to the impact rent control 
policies have on housing supply and affordability?
    Mr. Sears. It has a dramatic impact. Rent control units 
less frequently come on the market, which excludes people from 
moving into them. It also scares away potential investors and 
builders who would want to build in the community but not 
knowing if they will be able to get a return on investment, 
they will look elsewhere to build.
    Mr. Lawler. I appreciate that. Mr. Sears, in the 3-seconds 
I have left, did you appreciate the increase in SALT?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Lawler.
    Mr. Lawler. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gonzalez, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
the committee, for our witnesses to be here today on such an 
important topic. I know we are talking about a lot of 
interesting and important policies that impact the housing 
shortage in America, but there seems to be an apprehension 
about talking about a root issue, which is the labor shortage, 
which is impacting the construction of new housing in this 
country. I think we cannot fix a problem if we do not admit we 
have a problem. Thirty percent of construction workers in 
America are immigrant labor. In Texas, it is 40 percent. Just 
recently I met with homebuilders in my district that showed me 
videos of job sites that looked like ghost towns, and we cannot 
fix this problem if we do not address it. I know, Mr. Sears, 
you talked about workforce training, and certainly that is 
something that we need to address in this country. It is a 
long-term solution, right? It is not something we are going to 
fix today. What are we doing today to talk about the labor 
shortage? We cannot build homes without people, hard-working 
people, which are immigrants. They are building America. It is 
not American labor force born and raised in America that is 
building this country. It is labor that is coming from other 
countries that are doing the hardest work in this country and 
building homes, and affordable housing as part of it.
    Ms. Smith, are your members talking to you about this, and 
what are we doing?
    Ms. Smith. Yes, they certainly are, and I am experiencing 
it in my own company because it is not only just the immigrant 
labor that is used to build apartment communities, but, again, 
those that maintain them, our contractors that paint our 
apartments, that clean our buildings, that sort of thing. So it 
really does impact our ability to be able to provide the kind 
of experience that we want for our communities. So it is a very 
big challenge that we face right now.
    Mr. Gonzalez. Yes. Also on affordability, I was told, after 
these ICE raids recently in the country that the square footage 
for framing in my district almost doubled because of the labor 
shortage. So that is putting a real squeeze on housing. Mr. 
Sears, we should not be shy about it. We should be honest and 
forthcoming and just tell people we have a labor shortage, and 
I do not know if they are documented or undocumented, but they 
are doing the work, and they are building our country. We have 
to admit it. We cannot be hiding from the issue because we 
cannot resolve it if we do----
    Ms. Smith. It will also increase costs.
    Mr. Gonzalez [continuing]. and it is okay, right?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, because we do support immigration 
reform. We support having people come in to increase our 
workforce and including work visas. I mean, we need them.
    Mr. Gonzalez. We need more work visas, and we have been 
fighting for them for a long time but the ICE raids that are 
happening right now are having a direct economic impact on 
construction in this country, and we cannot hide from it. We 
have to admit we have this problem or we cannot solve it, 
right? Thank you.
    Mr. Sears, thank you for joining us today, by the way. In 
the Rio Grande Valley, the district that I represent, the 
average home price is $200,000, which on paper looks far more 
affordable than many places in the country, but in this part of 
the district, people's medium income is $55,000. That means 
most families may never have a savings to buy a home with cash 
and, because these mortgages tend to be smaller, many lenders 
will not offer them since they are less profitable under the 
current market conditions. So, even in areas where housing is 
relatively affordable, too many working families are 
effectively iced out of home ownership from every angle. Mr. 
Sears, what steps can Congress take to help financial 
institutions incentivize them to offer smaller dollar mortgages 
in communities like mine and to keep them from shutting out of 
this market?
    Mr. Sears. The affordability crisis is everywhere across 
the country, and in markets that might seem more affordable, 
there is still sticker shock for your constituents, for 
example. So what we can do is open it up for community banks, 
smaller local banks or regional banks, and to incentivize them 
to make these loans. I will just say I have not heard a 
mortgage officer say, no, they do not want to do a loan because 
it is too small, because the bank will still make money, but it 
is a matter of how do they get access to that credit?
    Ms. Bailey. If I may, sir, I need to share that the 
liquidity programs in the equitable housing finance programs of 
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac actually included support for small 
dollar mortgages. Unfortunately, the Federal Housing Finance 
Agency Director has taken away those equitable housing finance 
goals. So this is why your oversight is so critical because we 
actually had a mechanism for doing it and then the chairwoman 
has a bill where she is recommending that HUD actually conducts 
a study for how we can create more liquidity within the FHA 
program for small dollar mortgages, because there are 
affordable homes throughout our Nation. To your point, without 
having access to safe and responsible financing, people are not 
able to access----
    Mr. Gonzalez. Thank you, and for the record, I am 
sponsoring a bill called the Save the American Workforce Act. I 
encourage you all to look at it. It will--it addresses----
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Gonzalez [continuing]. undocumented workers who are 
here that have not had any legal trouble. Thank you.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Stutzman, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Stutzman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all 
for being here.
    I am happy to say that Indiana is one of the most 
affordable States for home ownership in the country, but the 
dream of owning a home is still far off for a lot of Hoosiers, 
especially today, because, during the Biden Administration, the 
median price of a home in Indiana increased by nearly $100,000.
    Ms. Smith, I would like to start with you. During the Biden 
Administration, inflation increased the cost of construction 
materials, labor, and now insurance. It is clear that a big 
reason for our housing problem is a lack of supply. How have 
increased costs impacted the ability of developers to build new 
housing?
    Ms. Smith. Well, I think we are seeing it in the fact that 
our starts are down 35 percent. Just to give you some context, 
you would need about a 6 percent return on costs to get a 
project financed today with a, say, a pension fund or an 
insurance company. With the costs where they are and the land 
and the regulations, the soft costs, we just cannot get there, 
and so it is really just--it is a return-on-cost issue today.
    Mr. Stutzman. Economics is playing a key role in this. To 
follow up on Mr. Lawler, while we are discussing new 
development, pointing out that the newly elected mayor of New 
York City and other far-left mayors in this country have 
endorsed things like rent control.
    Mr. Peter, I would like to ask you, do you think rent 
control or rent stabilization policies encourage development?
    Mr. Peter. No, they discourage development, and there is 
pretty robust economic literature, and that is one of the 
reasons where economists generally do not agree on anything 
except that, on rent control. They agree that it is uniformly 
bad, and there have been plenty of examples from 
internationally where rent control was implemented that shows 
that it had not the desired effect. In fact, in Argentina, The 
Wall Street Journal just wrote about this recently, once they 
repealed rent control, actually, more units came online because 
people were sitting on them not renting them because they could 
not make the costs work, and now they were returning them to 
the market.
    Mr. Stutzman. Sure. Thank you. In addition to increased 
costs, it seems that government roadblocks are exacerbating 
this issue. That is why, in August, I introduced my 
Streamlining Rural Housing Act alongside Senator Moran, and so 
I am pleased to have bipartisan support along with our 
conference chair Ms. McClain as well as Ms. Pettersen and Mr. 
Scott. My bill would require HUD and USDA to develop a joint 
environmental review and inspection process for rural housing 
projects, cutting red tape and making affordable rural housing 
easier to build. This is not only necessary--a necessary 
solution but an important step toward making it easier to build 
new homes.
    Mr. Sears, I would ask, I am honored to have the realtors 
supporting this bill and others like this, but can you discuss 
a little bit how the overlapping rules and regulations across 
Federal agencies make it more difficult to construct new 
housing?
    Mr. Sears. I am very happy to say we support the bill as 
well. Anytime there are duplicative efforts, it takes longer, 
and it costs more. Streamline it. Have one review, and that 
will make things quicker, more affordable.
    Mr. Stutzman. I know one thing coming from a business 
background, it is not that I am--would be frustrated with a 
regulation. It is often the speed of getting to a conclusion 
and getting that permit so you can move forward, and I think 
that is where this is really a key piece to letting the economy 
move quicker. Still having the same regulatory outcome, but 
just much quicker. I want to follow up to that. How do we 
target reforms like my bill, improve--how do these reforms 
improve the environmental review process while still 
maintaining the necessary environmental protections?
    Mr. Sears. Yes. I mean, as you said, we need to make sure 
that the protections stay in place, but having it streamline 
one inspection process, that is very important. That way, we 
make sure that we have the safety that is needed for the 
eventual occupants of the properties.
    Mr. Stutzman. Yes. Anybody else want to comment on the idea 
of streamlining the regulations?
    That is fine. I know that zoning laws are set at the State 
and local levels and the Federal Government has no business in 
micromanaging State and local officials, but I do think it is 
important to emphasize that housing affordability is not an 
issue that can be solely fixed at the Federal level and that we 
need buy in and smart policy from our State and local partners 
to help spur growth.
    Mr. Peter, I am pleased to see you mentioned zoning in your 
testimony today. What are some places that have overtly 
restrictive zoning laws? Can you mention anything quickly?
    Mr. Peter. I mean, in most of the country, that is the 
problem. If you ask me the other places that have less 
restrictive zoning laws, for example, Houston has done a great 
job. Back in the 1990s and the 2000s, they have rolled back 
minimum lot size requirements, and they had a big increase in 
home construction.
    Mr. Stutzman. Thank you.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Meeks, who is the ranking 
member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. I am thrilled that the chairman has 
convened this hearing giving us all an opportunity to discuss 
the housing affordability and supply issues as well as our--as 
well as share our proposals to address this crisis. This 
includes my bipartisan bill that I recently reintroduced with 
Congressman Sessions, known as the Mortgage Insurance Freedom 
Act. The Mortgage Insurance Freedom Act is a straightforward 
and commonsense fix that will make a real difference for 
families across the country. It would end the FHA's lifetime 
mortgage insurance requirement and return to the system that 
existed before the financial crisis.
    Under this bill, FHA loans would operate like those in the 
conventional market. Once a borrower has built enough equity, 
they would no longer be required to pay monthly mortgage 
insurance installments, immediately cutting their monthly 
expenses. So, also right now, the FHA borrowers who are often 
first-time homebuyers and young families, must continue paying 
mortgage insurance for the entire life of their loan, even 
after they have gained substantial equity. This policy has 
created or was created during the financial crises, when the 
mutual mortgage insurance fund was under significant strain. 
That is no longer the case.
    According to last year's FHA annual report to Congress, the 
Mutual Mortgage Insurance (MMI) Fund is now more than five 
times above its required capital ratio. Conventional borrowers 
are not subject to a lifetime insurance requirement. Once they 
build sufficient equity, their mortgage insurance ends. My bill 
ensures that the FHA borrowers receive the same fair and 
reasonable treatment and are not burdened by unnecessary 
monthly costs long after they have demonstrated financial 
strength. In today's economy, that relief matters. Ending 
lifetime mortgage insurance means more money for groceries, 
childcare, college savings, and everyday expenses. It helps 
families build equity faster and strengthens their long-term 
financial stability.
    This bill is endorsed by the Mortgage Bankers Association, 
the National Urban League, and the Broker Action Coalition, 
among others. These organizations understand the housing market 
and recognize that this reform will help families keep more of 
their hard-earned dollars. This legislation delivers greater 
fairness, boosts affordability, and accelerates wealth building 
for American families. By allowing mortgage insurance to end 
once borrowers build equity, we give FHA families the same 
pathway to financial stability that conventional homeowners 
already enjoy. So I look forward to talking to you and 
welcoming my colleagues to move this bill forward as we go 
forward.
    I want to switch gears. I am just looking at my time at 
another important issue that I would like to discuss, because, 
back in March of this year, FHA Director Bill Pulte released a 
directive eliminating the GSE's participation in special 
purpose credit programs. These programs provide the down 
payment help, closing costs assistance, and other support that 
many first-time buyers and families in underserved communities 
rely on to get their foot in the door of home ownership. I 
immediately led a letter along with my colleagues to the 
Director urging him to reverse that decision.
    For far too long, structural disparities in our housing and 
lending markets have kept too many low-income families like my 
parents and Rio residents and other historically marginalized 
communities, on the outside looking in. Every single day, it 
seems to me that the Trump Administration finds a way, a new 
way, to make life harder and more affordable for regular and 
average everyday Americans, from cutting off these credit 
programs to pulling back on the CDFI fund to attempting to shut 
down the CFPB. Their actions are making it harder for families 
to get ahead and pushing people further behind.
    Ms. Bailey, what are you hearing from lenders, housing 
counselors, and community groups on the matter of losing 
special purpose credit programs, and how does it impact 
families to get ahead and have the opportunity to home 
ownership?
    Ms. Bailey. Particularly for people who live in the South, 
where people have historically lower credit profiles than 
people in the rest of the Nation, there is deep concern that 
there will not be credit liquidity there. The GSEs have not 
always done a great job of ensuring for liquidity in every 
community at all times, including in the South. So special 
purpose credit programs in that region have really lifted 
credit opportunities for everyone and for people of color, who 
have a history of underservice, and it is important to note 
that these are the people that the health of the housing system 
depends on. So, if they are not able to get access to fairly 
priced loans, the system will fail.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. De La Cruz, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate you and 
you holding this meeting today and thank you to all of the 
witnesses for being here.
    Where I live, which is in deep South Texas, affordability, 
and specifically housing affordability, is at the top of their 
mind especially for young families and young adults that are 
getting to that age of beginning their life in a new family. 
Affordability is something that we must tackle and 
unfortunately, consumers looking to buy or rent are being hurt 
by all angles, and the primary driver to housing costs have 
been the decades of underdevelopment that has left us short 5 
million housing units.
    That being said, I am sure all of our witnesses would agree 
that the FHA multifamily insurance programs play a critical 
role in incentivizing housing construction nationwide. I have 
introduced the H.R. 6132, the Housing Affordability Act, to 
update FHA's multifamily insurance program for the first time 
in over 20 years. That is quite a bit of time. A lot has 
changed since then. And this is to ensure that they more 
accurately capture the true costs of construction.
    So, Mr. Sears and Ms. Smith, I am proud to say that the 
organizations that you represent are supporting this 
legislation, and I would like you to explain how changes like 
these can leverage and incentivize private investment to expand 
the housing supplies. Mr. Sears, I will start with you first.
    Mr. Sears. Ms. De La Cruz, thank you very much, and, yes, 
the National Association of Realtors does support this effort. 
We see--have talked about too many rules and laws that have 
gone unchanged, and so 22 years is a long time. What we see is 
these outdated limits block the potential of financing for 
these projects, and when financing is blocked, that is going to 
prohibit the construction that is so desperately needed. So 
updating this, unlocking the private investment, would be key 
to helping to solve the housing crisis.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Smith, would you agree with this?
    Ms. Smith. Absolutely. Like I mentioned earlier, the 221D4 
program is really an excellent one for multifamily because 
costs have gone up so much over the 20 years, as you 
represented, we need to extend the loan limits. So, today, 
there are so many projects that are just--that cost so much 
more to build than would fit into the program today. So we 
think that, in addition to really expediting the process and 
really shortening the waiting period, will make a big 
difference in the use of this program, but we are very 
supportive of it.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you.
    Mr. Peter, to change topics, many people might be surprised 
to learn that most government housing programs focus primarily 
on stimulating demand while ignoring the supply constraints 
that we have. What role can government programs play in better 
incentivizing supply of new housing construction rather than 
just focusing on demand?
    Mr. Peter. Yes. So government is very good at stimulating 
demand. It is very poor at bringing forth new supply and demand 
is relatively easy. All you have to do is lower underwriting 
standards, add down payment assistance, or lower interest 
rates, for example but if you do that against a limited supply, 
economics 101 tells you that you are going to end up driving 
prices higher, and that is bad for first-time homebuyers.
    The supply side, there are certain levers that the Federal 
Government has. For example, you could free up Federal land, 
especially out in the western third that could, over 10 years, 
create 1 million single-family starter homes, and that is 
certainly a very potent option, smaller lot sizes as talked 
about before. There is a whole slew of things that the Federal 
Government can do.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you so much.
    Very quickly, in my short period of time, Mr. Sears, I will 
come back to you, another important cost driver for consumers 
and developers is the ability to access affordable lending. 
From your perspective, what are the key drivers in today's 
market that are increasing the consumers cost to borrow?
    Mr. Sears. Right off the top of my head, interest rates. 
That is one of the most significant. Also, insurance costs. 
That is part of the cost to own, and part of the borrowing cost 
has been significant as well.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I ask, by unanimous consent, that 
this support letter for H.R. 6132, cosigned by over a dozen 
housing groups, be entered into the record. Thank you.
    Mr. Flood. Without objection.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix 
of page XX.]

    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The Gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentlewoman from Oregon, Ms. Bynum, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony, and 
thank you to, Chairman Hill and Ranking Member Waters, for 
convening this important hearing, and, to Mr. Flood, for 
presiding.
    In my home State of Oregon and across the country, we are 
struggling with a lack of housing supply, as has been 
mentioned, which of course has created a housing crisis. In a 
recent study of housing affordability and home building, led by 
the National Association of Realtors, Oregon earned an F 
ranking, ranking 45th out of the 50 States. I am really 
competitive, and I do not like that. It is estimated that 
Oregon will likely need to build over 140,000 single-family 
homes by 2030 in order to meet demand. Moreover, delays caused 
by complex and restrictive permitting processes and other 
regulatory burdens have resulted in a nationwide housing 
shortage of nearly 5 million homes.
    In communities across the country, local governments are 
investing in a process called pattern zoning, in which 
architects and local governments develop pattern books full of 
preapproved standardized plans and designs. So, recently, I 
introduced H.R. 5907, the Accelerating Home Building Act, with 
my colleague Congressman Steil. H.R. 5907 would establish a 
grant program within HUD to fund the creation of these pattern 
books, speeding up the permitting and home-building process and 
lowering the costs for homebuyers.
    It is clear that we need to be using every tool in our 
disposal to tackle the housing affordability crisis, and this 
bill is an example of how the Federal Government can cut red 
tape and provide local communities with the resources they need 
to get more housing built faster.
    So my question is for Mr. Sears. The housing market is 
facing historically low inventory, especially for starter 
homes. How would a significant increase in the predictable 
supply of missing middle housing facilitated by H.R. 5907, the 
Accelerating Home Building Act, impact our market dynamics and 
create new opportunities for first time homebuyers?
    Mr. Sears. Ms. Bynum, thank you, I could not agree with 
your statement more about what we need to do. As a 
practitioner, I have seen how long it takes for housing 
projects to get approved, to get the permits, and we need to 
take advantage of any lever that can be pulled to unleash some 
of the housing inventory that is needed, especially that 
missing middle that you are talking about. We do support your 
bill, yes.
    Ms. Bynum. Okay. Well, I just have to be honest and humble 
here for a moment. I have a 24-year-old daughter and a 21-year-
old son, and I am trying to get them off the payroll. Like, we 
are really working. You know, they are still in school, but 
when you think about it, what do our 21 and 24-year-olds have 
to look forward to? It used to be 38 was the average first time 
homebuyer age, and maybe it has pushed up to 41ish, something 
like that.
    Mr. Sears. Yes. The current median age is 40, and we have 
seen it increase. It had been between 27 and 30 for a very long 
time. So we are--an entire generation is missing this 
opportunity to work toward intergenerational wealth and home 
ownership.
    Ms. Bynum. So parents and grandparents out there are 
looking to us to make sure that we can get these kids off 
payroll and get them launched, right?
    I think the other question that I have is realtors are 
seeing the direct relationship between housing supply and 
median crisis. How important is the bill's goal of accelerating 
the time to market for new units? How important is that goal in 
stabilizing and lowering the housing costs for Americans?
    Mr. Sears. There is a time value to money. So the faster 
that units can get on the market, the less they will cost to 
build. The less they cost to build, the more affordable they 
will be. I hate to say it, but very simple economics.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you. All right. So thank you to all of the 
witnesses for your expertise and time, and I will leave the 
last 40 seconds if you want to share your story about getting 
them off payroll or any other interactions that you have had 
with young people or their parents in the community. Mr. Peter?
    Mr. Peter. Oh, I am just a proud parent of a 1-year-old.
    Ms. Bynum. Well, we better solve this problem now, right?
    Mr. Peter. I hope, by 20 years, we are going to have this 
problem under control, but it is probably going to take years 
until we get there.
    Ms. Bailey. I would say HUD's Affirmatively Furthering Fair 
Housing rule could really go a long way in making sure we are 
doing everything to create inclusionary zoning, so having 
oversight and community hearings, because jurisdictions are 
actually seeking the guidance. They want to give them the 
guidance.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentlewoman yields back.
    The gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Nunn, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Nunn. I want to begin by thanking both the panel and 
the chairman for holding what I think is a very important 
hearing on housing. It is one of the most vibrant things that 
we talk about in a rural community like Iowa, and it is 
something that impacts this entire Nation coast to coast.
    The challenge here is that everyone who has been doing this 
right, saving up, trying to buy that first home, or maybe 
transitioning from their last home to their final home, is 
having a harder and harder time doing this with interest rates 
up, with housing stock down. Currently, in the State of Iowa, 
nearly 40 percent of our renters are spending a third or more 
of their take-home salary just to be able to afford the rent 
while still trying to save on the side.
    Look, folks in Iowa and across the Midwest, they are not 
asking for a handout. They are asking for a fair opportunity to 
become homebuyers and buy into the American Dream. Today I want 
to discuss five proposals that we have come up with to help 
particularly in rural communities like Iowa.
    One, expanding access to inventory through accessory 
dwellings, this is the so-called mother-in-lawsuite, but giving 
people the opportunity to be able to stay on their own property 
and build a facility.
    Two, increasing loan amounts for critical home repair 
programs that keep inventory vibrant.
    Three, updating USDA's outdated technology process, which 
today still requires a mountain of paperwork just to be able to 
get in that first home.
    Four, auditing the rural housing program and five, ensuring 
better reporting.
    I think, in tandem, we are able to bring these together in 
a really meaningful way, because we have to face the reality 
that, candidly, there are just not enough homes on the market 
right now for a first-time homebuyer to be able to get into it.
    I fully support the efforts to increase the housing supply, 
but we must also effectively ensure that U.S. Department of 
Agriculture's rural housing tools are modern and effective. In 
Iowa, these commonsense reforms can help, and I think it 
becomes a model for the entire Nation.
    Now, Ms. Sears, I want to begin by saying we have several 
multigeneration farm families that need flexible housing 
options. One of the things we have highlighted here is what is 
called the ADU, or mother-in-lawsuite, and you can see it can 
be something that is an external building, or it can be for, as 
was noted earlier, a kid who just wants to live over the garage 
with a little bit of modification or providing another housing 
unit in an area that has already been platted for it.
    ADUs are cheaper. They are quicker to build, and they are 
solutions that can immediately provide a solution for our 
housing stock necessity. My legislation clarifies the accessory 
dwelling units qualify for USDA loan guarantees. I would like 
to ask, do you think this would help address Iowa's housing 
shortage and increase the housing supply?
    Mr. Sears. Yes, Mr. Nunn. Very good seeing you again, but I 
need to let you know it would increase the supply across the 
country, not just Iowa. My home State of Massachusetts last 
year passed the Affordable Cares Act, which made ADUs by right, 
so people could put that in, but the financing is an issue, as 
some of your colleagues have talked about. So we strongly 
support your legislation to expand the opportunity for your 
constituents but also everyone across America to take advantage 
of these loan products when it comes to ADUs.
    Mr. Nunn. Thank you, Mr. Sears, and thanks for what you are 
doing on this.
    I would like to just ask the panel, by a show of hands, has 
anyone worked with rural housing before or had the opportunity? 
I would not discredit you for this because the challenge is we 
do not talk about it enough. I think we talk about great things 
that HUD does, but I also like to talk about the important role 
that USDA plays in this. Rural housing really has not been 
discussed, and whether you are living in Ringgold County, Adams 
County in Iowa or across America, there is--every community 
that has an opportunity to succeed here. The current system, 
candidly, is broken and needs a fix.
    Ms. Smith, one of the things I would like to say thank you 
very much for our effort on our rural housing bill, the support 
that you have given to this, and the bipartisan effort that we 
have worked with Mr. Cleaver on. This is not only endorsed by 
the Iowa Habitat for Humanity; it also is something that a lot 
of Iowans can take advantage of and Americans. Critical repairs 
would be increased by 100 percent. So this means repairs that 
would go to a septic system, a roof, electrical, all in order 
to improve the housing stock, means that we get to identify a 
home that might be on the brink of dilapidation now is on the 
market for development. We are not destroying rural America by 
asking a new builder to come in. We can keep what is already 
there.
    To put all this in perspective, fixing a septic tank today 
in Iowa costs about $20,000 on a home that is worth $149,000. 
By being able to increase something we have not seen happen for 
over 20 years can start with this legislation. Do you think 
that these type of critical repairs are something that are in 
need of update, and would it improve the housing stock for 
America across the board? Ms. Smith.
    Ms. Smith. I would certainly hope so, yes.
    Mr. Nunn. Here is what I want to do going forward. Right 
now, I also want to address the issue of bureaucracy. Right 
now, in Iowa, it takes about 12 months to get through the USDA 
process. We can update the system to make it digital, cleaner, 
more efficient, and get families into homes faster. Together, 
Mr. Chair, this is important legislation that America needs. I 
look forward to working with this committee in a bipartisan way 
to make it happen. Thank you. I yield my time.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    At this time, I move for unanimous consent to enter the 
following statements into the record: a statement from the 
International Code Council, dated December 2, 2025; statement 
from the American Property Casualty Insurance Association, 
dated December 3, 2025; and a coalition statement from the 
National Taxpayers Union and other Conservative advocacy 
organizations, dated December 2, 2025.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix 
on pages XX]

    Mr. Flood. With that, the committee will stand at recess 
for 5 minutes, and we will reconvene at 2:14 p.m.
    [Recess.]
    Mr. Flood. The committee will come to order.
    I appreciate our witnesses staying with us and doing such a 
good job today.
    The gentleman from Montana, Mr. Downing, is now recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Downing. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to the witnesses.
    Montana has certainly not been immune from skyrocketing 
housing costs that are really pricing out more and more of my 
constituents. In fact, Montana, since 2018, has seen a 90-
percent increase in the median home value, which is--you know, 
``Congratulations, here is your new property tax bill.'' It has 
been a struggle.
    One of the things that I have heard from constituents of 
mine that are developing affordable housing is that a huge 
driver of costs is HUD's application of the Build America, Buy 
American, or BABA Act, on federally backed housing projects 
from the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
    I appreciate the comments that Chairman Flood made on this 
issue, but I am going to go a little deeper here.
    I am going to start with Ms. Smith.
    Can you please elaborate how BABA, while well-intentioned, 
makes housing less affordable?
    Ms. Smith. I mentioned earlier that we have not actually 
had to build a project using BABA, but we have been talking to 
a lot of our contractors about what they anticipate the 
additional costs will be, and they are saying anything from, 
like, 4 to 6 percent.
    So that is just going to add more cost to building 
affordable housing, which is already very expensive. I think it 
is important to note that it is more expensive to build an 
affordable housing unit today than it is to build a luxury 
market-rate unit today.
    Mr. Downing. Appreciate that.
    Do you believe that the BABA provision was intended to 
apply to housing projects or only to hard infrastructure?
    Ms. Smith. I am sorry, but I really cannot--I really do not 
know.
    Mr. Downing. Okay. Appreciate that.
    Should Congress rescind this provision for federally backed 
housing projects?
    Ms. Smith. I think that Congress should rescind anything 
that is adding cost to building more affordable housing.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Ms. Smith. Unnecessary cost.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Mr. Sears, part of solving the housing affordability crisis 
is ensuring that homeowners are able to stay in their current 
homes rather than move and compete with first-time homebuyers.
    According to the Montana Department of Commerce, over 
230,000 homes were built before 1980, and only 40 percent of 
existing homes are in good or better condition in Montana.
    Can you please discuss how repairing and renovating the 
existing stock of homes is also an important part of the 
equation?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you very much.
    It is very essential for us to maintain our existing 
housing stock. The last thing that we would like to see happen, 
as I said to Ms. Williams when she brought this legislation up, 
was that--we need to keep people in their homes. So, if there 
are any grants, low-interest loans that can be given so that 
necessary repairs are made, strengthen the property against 
natural disaster, we are in full support of that.
    Mr. Downing. Do you see any disparities between urban, 
suburban, and rural areas in terms of aging housing or homes in 
disrepair?
    Mr. Sears. No, sir. It is equal opportunity when it comes 
to older homes and especially as the population ages, they 
might not be in a position to be able to make the necessary 
repairs.
    Mr. Downing. What can Congress do to help with this issue?
    Mr. Sears. Well, this legislation, the Whole-Home Repair 
Act, is certainly a step in the right direction.
    I know in the past there have been block grants that have 
been made for local municipalities to be able to assist lower-
income folks with maintaining their property. So any of those 
types of grants or access to low-interest loans would be great.
    Mr. Downing. Well, thank you. Thank you for your comments.
    I want to end my remarks by talking about communities that 
are often left out of these discussions--namely, Tribes.
    Montana is home to seven federally recognized Indian 
reservations, and Indian Country faces many unique challenges 
that make housing affordability some of the worst in the 
Nation. In fact, Native Americans in Montana experience 12-
percent lower home ownership compared to the rest of the State.
    The primary law governing Federal support for Indian 
housing is the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-
Determination Act of 1996, and this authorizes the Indian 
Housing Block Grant, among other critical programs. 
Authorization for these programs expired over a decade ago, and 
the law has not been updated since 2008.
    This is simply unacceptable. I look forward to working with 
my colleagues to finally get these programs reauthorized and 
modernized.
    I just want to thank you all for being here today and 
participating in this. This is an incredibly important topic, 
not just to us on this committee but to our constituents, to 
this country. So I appreciate you being here.
    On that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Moore, is now 
recognized--when he walks in the door.
    Mr. Moore is the former longtime speaker of the North 
Carolina House of Representatives. He joins us today as a 
member of the House Financial Services Committee.
    Mr. Moore, you are recognized.
    Mr. Moore. Before my time starts, Mr. Chairman, I will say 
that down here at the bottom it is pretty tight quarters.
    Mr. Flood. Turn your microphone on, Mr. Moore.
    Mr. Moore. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I just want to, first of all, thank our witnesses for being 
here.
    I represent the 14th District of North Carolina. Our State 
is actually one of the fastest-growing States in the country, 
and the region that I represent is one of the fastest-growing 
regions in the State. Families are moving in, businesses are 
expanding, really because at the State level we have lowered 
taxes, we have cut red tape.
    What we have also seen is, a lot of the pain with growth 
and prosperity are the limits in terms of housing--I mean, a 
lot of problems that have been talked about today and the 
housing supply simply has not kept up. As a result, housing 
costs have just climbed far beyond anything that a lot of 
working families can reasonably afford.
    It is not regional. You all have testified already to how 
this is a national problem, probably because, I mean, the last 
4 years--I will try not to be too political here, but the last 
4 years were probably just out of control in terms of what 
happened with inflation but the problems that we have are 
longer and systemic and so forth. So I think my understanding 
is, right now, nationwide, there is a shortage of as many as, 
what, 5.5 million homes.
    I will start with Mr. Peter.
    You have written extensively about the constraints created 
by zoning restrictions and land-use policies. In a nutshell, 
what tools do you think could encourage localities to modernize 
the outdated zoning frameworks?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, that is an excellent question.
    So, at the local level, it boils down to just getting out 
of the way. There are certain jurisdictions that are always 
going to be against building more housing, but in those 
instances the State preemption can play a role in overcoming 
some of these concerns.
    We are seeing lots of movement from Washington, Oregon, 
California, Montana, Texas that have all moved in that 
direction.
    Mr. Moore. I will tell you, before I came here, I was a 
State legislator for 22 years. I was also an attorney and 
handled a lot of land-use and a lot of real estate work for 
folks. At one time, you used to have either commercial or 
residential, R4, R5 breakdowns.
    Now, it seems like I have noticed more and more folks want 
to do all these UDOs, unified development ordinance. They want 
to do a, kind of special variance for this development or that 
development. I cannot help but imagine that is passing along 
significant costs that end up being borne on the taxpayer. 
Anybody wants to--or, excuse me, on the homebuyer.
    Anybody want to comment on that?
    Mr. Peter. I can make another point about this. From a city 
perspective, if you allow a little bit greater density--we call 
it ``light-touch density''--you are going to be able to broaden 
your tax base.
    In the jurisdictions that we studied, in some of them, they 
were able--because they have a broader tax base, they have more 
taxable value, they were able to lower the tax rate for the 
citizens. So that has resulted in positive externalities.
    Mr. Moore. In addition to zoning, I think my understanding 
is a lot of, like, permitting delays, zoning issues, 
environmental reviews, and outdated Federal requirements add 
cost and also years to projects and, of course, adding time 
adds cost.
    Ms. Smith, I will ask you this question. Multifamily 
developers face multiple layers of environmental review at the 
Federal, the State, and at the local levels. How do these 
overlapping requirements impact the timing and the financial 
feasibility of large, multifamily projects?
    Ms. Smith. They obviously add tremendous cost. We had 
talked about that 40.6 percent of the cost of a multifamily 
dwelling unit is tied up in soft costs or regulations.
    It also moves--it sort of moves development around too. I 
was going to mention that your State of North Carolina is 
getting a lot of attention from developers from this region 
because it is easier, it is faster, it is just a better 
development process. As a result, North Carolina is getting a 
lot more housing--high-quality rental housing.
    Mr. Moore. Yes.
    Mr. Sears, a question for you. I hear Realtors often say 
that it is nearly impossible today to deliver a home for under 
$250,000, which blows my mind. What are the most common 
regulatory or permitting obstacles that prevent builders from 
meeting that price point?
    Mr. Sears. Regulatory. It is the patchwork of zoning across 
municipalities and localities. Not knowing that they are going 
to have a streamlined process. Sometimes inspectors get in the 
way. There is a myriad of reasons why it can be more difficult 
to build and there is a time value to money. So anything that 
can be cutoff from the length of time before the shovel gets in 
the ground and then the final occupant moves in will make 
things more affordable.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you.
    I had other questions. My time is nearly over. I do think 
it is important, and I appreciate these witnesses here today 
and my colleagues, frankly, on both sides of the aisle who 
acknowledge that affordability is a huge issue and that we need 
to find more ways to make home ownership the reality for more 
and more Americans. I appreciate the work.
    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate your work, because I know this 
is something you and your subcommittee are working on very 
hard. So thank you on that. Count me as an ally in this whole 
process.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New York, Mr. Garbarino, who is also the 
chairman of the full House Homeland Security Committee, is now 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you to all 
the witnesses for being here today.
    Access to housing is an increasing issue across the United 
States, especially in areas like where I am from on Long 
Island.
    I was excited to see the SUPPLY Act, the bill I co-lead 
with my colleague Rep. Liccardo, attached to this hearing. This 
bill expands Federal Housing Administration mortgage insurance 
to finance certain second-lien loans for accessory dwelling 
units, also known as backyard cottages, granny flats, or in-
lawsuites. This will provide government-backed, flexible 
financing options to help homeowners of modest means overcome 
what is often the last hurdle to breaking ground on an ADU.
    Mr. Peter, how would ensuring second liens for ADU 
construction help homeowners who want to add housing units but 
face financing barriers?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, for some homeowners, financing is certainly 
a hurdle but in other examples, in California, which has passed 
ADU laws, they were able to overcome--they were able to find 
financing without Federal guarantees or Federal lending 
programs.
    So my concern with ADU financing through a Federal program 
is that it may encourage lower-income homeowners to take on 
more than they can--to bite off more than they can chew. It is 
one thing to be a homeowner, but to be a homeowner and a 
landlord can be somewhat dangerous to make the payments. Your 
renter may not pay, but you are stuck with the cost. So there 
are certain cost concerns to be considered.
    Mr. Garbarino. Absolutely. I mean, I actually have an 
accessory dwelling unit, accessory apartment at my house and 
there were initial costs. You know, you have to separate, get 
the--there are permit fees, there are construction fees to get 
that done, to actually get the house built but I will tell you, 
having that extra--having that tenant there, as someone who is 
never home, is a nice--helps me have peace of mind. It also has 
income when they pay, and he always does pay but, again, it is 
something that definitely helps, especially with taxes keep 
going up.
    So I do understand there are concerns about initial costs, 
but I think the financing, definitely, here--and government-
backed financing--will help them with that initial cost. Yes, 
there are always bad actors. Tenants sometimes do not pay. I 
think in most of the cases, to address someone who cannot 
afford a full mortgage, having this access for someone who 
needs to live in an apartment is great for them but also for 
someone who is struggling to pay their mortgage, having an 
accessory apartment, that extra income could also be helpful.
    So I think that will address--that could address the 
challenging shortage in a way that does not require a lot of 
investment but from your perspective, does this legislation 
complement existing HUD and FHA programs?
    Yes, Mr. Peter?
    Mr. Peter. Yes, there is another option that HUD and FHA, 
in particular, could do that we have not talked about. So the 
mortgage insurance premium is another way where HUD could crowd 
in more starter homes.
    By rejiggering the mortgage insurance premium toward homes 
that are under, let us say, 1,800 square feet and lowering the 
premiums on these new constructions, HUD and FHA could play a 
role in getting more starter homes built.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you.
    I was also excited to see my bill, the National Flood 
Insurance Program (NFIP) Extension Act, included in this 
hearing. Flooding has long been the most significant cause of 
property damage from natural disasters in the United States, 
and homeowners rely on the National Flood Insurance Program to 
protect their homes.
    In districts like mine, many homeowners are required to 
purchase flood insurance to obtain a mortgage. However, since 
2017, Congress has only extended the NFIP on a short-term 
basis, leading to lapses in the program, including a recent 43-
day lapse during the government shutdown this year.
    Mr. Sears, what did the lapse mean for people trying to 
purchase a home during that time?
    Mr. Sears. Thank you, Mr. Garbarino.
    The lapse created uncertainty in the market, especially 
when the banks requiring the mortgagee to obtain flood 
insurance. Some of them were slow to realize that restriction 
had been lifted temporarily but even if the consumer closed, 
that would expose them to the potential liability without 
insurance coverage.
    So we support your effort to extend the NFIP until 
September 30, because since 2017, as you said, there have been 
34 short-term extensions, and that just causes too much 
uncertainty.
    Mr. Garbarino. Uncertainty and also extra cost to the 
homeowner if there is a lapse, with delay of closing and other 
things like that, which a lot of these homeowners--that extra 
cost they just cannot afford.
    I thank you for your answer.
    I thank you again, all, for being here.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Flood. The gentleman yields back.
    I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their 
testimony today.
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional written questions for the witnesses to the 
chair.
    The questions will then be forwarded to the witnesses for 
your response. Witnesses, please respond no later than January 
8, 2026.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]

    Mr. Flood. This hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 2:30 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

                                APPENDIX

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