    [House Hearing, 119 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                    THE HUMAN TOLL OF SANCTUARY POLICIES:
                      STORIES FROM VICTIMS AND FAMILIES
    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                           SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

                                     OF THE

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                            THURSDAY, APRIL 16, 2026

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 119-63

                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov

                                    __________

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    63-454                   WASHINGTON : 2026
    =======================================================================

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                            JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

    DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking
    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member
    TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York
    THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
    CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
    SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia
    BEN CLINE, Virginia                  TED LIEU, California
    LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
    JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       J. LUIS CORREA, California
    TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
    HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia
    LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
    WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont
    RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
    KEVIN KILEY, California              SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
    GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
    BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York
    MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
    ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       Vacancy
    DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
    BRANDON GILL, Texas
    MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington

                                     ------

                           SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT

                     JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey, Chair

    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas, Ranking
    ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri           Member
    DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
    BRANDON GILL, Texas                  HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
                                             Georgia

                   CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
                    ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director

                               C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                            Thursday, April 16, 2026
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page

    The Honorable Jefferson Van Drew, Chair of the Subcommittee on
      Oversight from the State of New Jersey.........................     1
    The Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking Member of the
      Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas..............     3
    The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary
      from the State of Ohio.........................................     6
    The Honorable Jamie Raskin, Ranking Member of the Committee on
      the Judiciary from the State of Maryland.......................     6

                                   WITNESSES

    Patricia Fox, Mother of Carissa Aspnes
      Oral Testimony.................................................    10
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    12
    Jennifer Heiling, Mother of Brady Heiling
      Oral Testimony.................................................    17
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    19
    Antonio Romanucci, Founding Partner, Romanucci & Blandin
      Oral Testimony.................................................    24
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    26
    Laura Wilkerson, Mother of Joshua Wilkerson
      Oral Testimony.................................................    30
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    33

              LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

    All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the
      Judiciary are listed below.....................................    44

    Materials submitted by the Honorable Derek Schmidt, a Member of
      the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Kansas, for the
      record
        A press release entitled, ``ICE Asks Governor Pritzker and
            Chicago Sanctuary Politicians to Not Release Criminal
            Illegal Alien Accused of Killing 18-Year-Old Loyola
            College Student,'' Mar. 22, 2026, U.S. Department of
            Homeland Security
        A press release entitled, ``Mayor Frey's Sanctuary Policies
            Release Criminal Illegal Aliens From Jails Back onto
            Minneapolis Streets to Terrorize More Innocent
            Americans,'' Jan. 14, 2026, U.S. Department of Homeland
            Security
        An article entitled, ``Illinois father says Pritzker shows
            `indifference' to his daughter being killed by illegal
            immigrant,'' Jan. 15, 2026, Fox News
        Testimony from Zoey Heiling, sister of Brady Heiling, Apr.
            16, 2026
        Testimony from Korri Heiling, sister of Brady Heiling, Apr.
            16, 2026
        Testimony from John and Debra Hosek, grandparents of Brady
            Heiling, Apr. 16, 2026
        Testimony from Agnes Gibboney, mother of Ronald da Silva,
            Apr. 16, 2026
        Testimony from Joe Abraham, father of Katie Abraham, Apr. 16,
            2026
    Materials submitted by the Honorable Jasmine Crockett, Ranking
      Member of the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of
      Texas, for the record
        An article entitled, ``TribBlog: Houston No Sanctuary, Annise
            Parker, Says,'' Mar. 29, 2010, The Texas Tribune
        An article entitled, ``Is Houston a sanctuary for illegal
            immigrants?'' Dec. 23, 2007, Houston Chronicle
    Materials submitted by the Honorable Brandon Gill, a Member of
      the Subcommittee on Oversight from the State of Texas, for the
      record
        An article entitled, ``ICE agent struck by Renee Good's
            vehicle suffered internal bleeding to torso, DHS says,''
            Jan. 14, 2026, Fox News
        A press release rntitled, ``DHS Reaches More than 4,000
            Arrests of Illegal Aliens Including Murderers, Sex
            Offenders, Gang Members, and Terrorists in Minnesota
            Since Operation Metro Surge Began,'' Feb. 4, 2026, U.S.
            Department of Homeland Security
        A press release entitled, ``UPDATE: DHS Deploys Special
            Operations After Multiple Violent Attacks on Federal Law
            Enforcement by Domestic Terrorists in Chicago,'' Oct. 4,
            2025, U.S. Department of Homeland Security

    THE HUMAN TOLL OF SANCTUARY POLICIES: STORIES FROM VICTIMS AND FAMILIES

                                  ----------

                            Thursday, April 16, 2026

                            House of Representatives

                           Subcommittee on Oversight

                           Committee on the Judiciary

                                 Washington, DC

        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., in Room
    2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Jefferson Van
    Drew [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
        Members present: Representatives Van Drew, Jordan, Onder,
    Schmidt, Gill, Crockett, Raskin, and Johnson.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you all for being here today. This is a
    regular meeting of the Subcommittee on Oversight. The women
    sitting in front of us today, you shouldn't have to be here.
    You shouldn't have to have a hearing on this topic. What you
    should have, and we can't do, is to have your children back.
    The systems of governing across this country have failed you,
    so you are here and, damn it, we are going to listen to you.
        Folks have said on the other side sometimes a lot of things
    in defense of sanctuary city policies. I say tell that to Laura
    Wilkerson, whose 18-year-old son Joshua was murdered by an
    illegal alien from Belize. He was beaten with a wooden rod. His
    hands and feet were bound. His body was set on fire and I'm
    sorry I even have to say this, and he was left in a field.
    Joshua gave his killer a ride home from school that day. That
    was Joshua's crime. That is the kind of kid that he was.
        Tell it to Patricia Fox, whose daughter, Carissa, was
    riding on the back of a motorcycle when an illegal alien with
    no license and no insurance cut across three lanes of traffic
    and hit her, and then he fled the scene and left her for dead.
        Tell that to Jen Heiling, whose son, Brady, 19 years old, a
    football and track athlete, who would turn down college
    scholarships just to stay close to his family and his
    girlfriend, was killed, was murdered when a drunk illegal alien
    drove the wrong way on an interstate at a blood alcohol level
    just about three times the legal limit.
        Go ahead, tell them sanctuary policies make communities
    safer. Look them in the eye and say that. Tell them that
    blindly letting in millions of unknown people into this country
    makes us safer. It doesn't. We know it. It doesn't. I know all
    of you know it; yet here we are. This is a direct, documented,
    undeniable line between the policy choices that have directly
    led to the deaths of innocent Americans.
        In New York, failure to honor ICE detainers resulted in the
    release of 6,947 criminal illegal aliens, criminal illegal
    aliens, almost 7,000, with crimes ranging from 29 homicides,
    2,500 assaults, 200 burglaries, 300 robberies, 400 dangerous
    drug offenses, 300 weapons offenses, and 200 sexual predatory
    offenses. In Illinois, they had the man who shot and killed
    Sheridan Gorman, an 18-year-old freshman, walk in a park with
    her friends in custody, but they let him go. We know because
    this Committee obtained the Border Patrol documents, when Jose
    Medina crossed into this country, he made no asylum claim, and
    agents determined he was unlikely to run away, and look what he
    did. The Biden Administration released him anyway, into our
    communities, onto our streets, and into the park where Sheridan
    Gorman was walking with her friends.
        These same sanctuary policies protected the man who killed
    Katie Abraham, an Ohio University student, who was sitting at a
    car, stopped at a red light, when a drunk illegal alien who had
    already been deported once before slammed into her at 78 miles
    an hour and left the scene. He was driving on a fake identity
    with fake documents under a fake name. He had gone to three
    different bars that night.
        Sanctuary policies protected the man who killed Richard
    Williams he is a senior, too an 83-year-old veteran, an Air
    Force veteran, who was standing on a subway platform, not
    bothering anybody, who served his country, when Mr. Hernandez,
    a Honduran national who had been deported from this country
    four times with 15 prior criminal charges--15, how many times
    does it take for us to learn? He came up behind him, and he
    shoved them on the tracks.
        They call these policies sanctuary to make them sound nice.
    Well, I will let you know what I call it. I call it negligence.
    I call it a dereliction of our duty to protect the American
    people that we serve. When your policies repeatedly release
    dangerous criminals who go on to kill innocent Americans over
    and over again, and you do it knowingly, and I don't mean to be
    harsh but the only thing, the only word I can think of is
    murder.
        An ICE detainer doesn't ask for much: Hold a person who has
    committed a crime for 48 hours so Federal agents can take them
    into custody. Two days. That's all they asked. These Governors
    and these mayors and these officials were all sitting in our
    comfortable offices and our ivory towers, continuing to ignore
    the duty and ignore the safety of their constituents. It
    continues to lead to one tragedy after another.
        We have had too many different types of hearings on this,
    and yet it continues. That is why I applaud all of you when we
    talked in the back, that you have the guts, that you have the
    strength, that you have the love in your heart for those that
    you lost, and the love in your heart to try to help other
    Americans, and to try to change the system.
        You asked me back there do the good guys win? Not all the
    time; but damn it, it is worth the effort and you have got to
    try to win. This is worth the effort that you all are making. I
    mean it. I thank you.
        That's why I called this hearing. Not for shrewd arguments,
    not for talking points, not for technicalities, and not for all
    the legal words and the legalese. It is just a hearing for
    people. I wanted to hear from real people. I didn't want to
    hear from, and we put plenty of attorneys up there, too; I'm
    not being critical, Mr. Romanucci, but I wanted to hear from
    the American people who have been hurt and want to make a
    difference. I called this hearing. I called it for Joshua. I
    called this hearing for Carissa. I called this hearing for
    Brady. I called this hearing for Hallie, Sheridan and Katie,
    and Richard and Stephanie. Do you want me to read all the
    names? I don't think you do because it hurts.
        These are real people and they are real tragedies, real
    pain and real hurt. You know what? Condolences don't do it.
    Feeling sorry doesn't do it. The words don't do it. Speeches
    like the speech I am giving now, it can't suffice. It can't do
    it. I don't want anybody to sit here. I have heard people say,
    and I say this as a father and now the grandfather of two
    little ones, don't say you know how you feel because we don't
    know how you feel. We will never, pray to God, know how you
    feel. Nobody can unless you go through it. Nobody knows how you
    feel.
        I am going to ask all of us today that sits up here on this
    dais, and more will be coming in, to look you all in the eyes,
    to look at you directly, and to listen to you. I want all of us
    to hear for ourselves about the failure of sanctuary policies.
    I thank you.
        Now I'm going to recognize the Ranking Member, Ms.
    Crockett, for an opening statement.
        Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Let me echo the
    condolences that he said not to give. Regardless, as someone
    who I don't think will ever get comfortable with trying to
    explain the unexplainable, specifically to parents, there is a
    due order that we all believe will exist, especially when you
    bring your beautiful child into this world. The one thing that
    no parent ever anticipates is for that order to be disrupted.
        Prior to coming to Congress, I was frustrated. I did a lot
    of the same work that Mr. Romanucci does. I had to face so many
    parents that lost their children and shouldn't have, whether it
    was doing the civil rights work or whether it was sometimes
    being the criminal defense attorney that would have to walk
    into court and represent people and make sure that their due
    process rights were preserved because they had been accused of
    killing somebody else.
        I will say that I agree with the Chair when he says that
    speeches cannot suffice. They never have; they never will. I
    must say that our actions have to speak louder than any words,
    and one of the reasons that I got into politics is because I
    felt like politicians are very good at lip service. Frankly,
    this hearing is a hearing that we have had over and over and
    over, where we have talked about sanctuary cities. It
    frustrates me, if I am being perfectly honest, because it
    doesn't lead to solutions. It feels like political
    gamesmanship, and the Chair is my friend, but I always keep it
    as real as I can.
        I want to say thank you to each and every one of you for
    being here today. Let me be clear about something.
        Anyone who commits a crime, especially a violent crime,
    should be fully held accountable. No matter their citizenship
    status, race, sex, how much money they do or don't have,
    whether they went to school or not, or even if they are a
    government official, no one should be above the law.
        I have listened to similar witnesses give their accounts
    and their stories. Specifically, as it relates to the witnesses
    that sit before us today, I have read your written testimony
    and I agree with some of the specific things that have been
    said in your written testimony, for example, Ms. Fox, that
    policies have consequences and that public policy should not
    require a threshold of victims before it is taken seriously.
    The only people in disagreement with this statement are the
    Republicans on this Committee. They have held multiple hearings
    on this topic but still haven't invited the families of anyone
    killed by ICE or who have died while in ICE's custody. More
    people died in ICE's custody last year than any time in the
    21st century, and Republicans still haven't invited any of
    their families to testify before this Committee. ICE and CBP
    have either shot or shot at least 24 people, including American
    citizens. Some have died. Others have been severely injured. A
    college student even had to have their eye removed after being
    shot in the face. Republicans have not invited any of their
    families to testify before this Committee. As far as I know,
    Republicans have not even contacted the families of those
    killed or harmed.
        What our witnesses went through is tragic and devastating,
    and their loved ones, you deserve justice. I have to be clear
    and say that their lives are not worth more, nor less, than,
    say, the life of Renee Good or the life of Alex Pretti or the
    life of Ruben Martinez, a 23-year-old U.S. citizen who was shot
    and killed by ICE in March 2025, or the life of Marimar
    Martinez, a 30-year-old U.S. citizen who was shot five times by
    Federal agents. Now, Ms. Martinez miraculously survived; but,
    to Ms. Fox's point, it, quote, ``should not require a threshold
    of victims before it is taken seriously.''
        Just six months after Federal agents murdered Ruben
    Martinez, they tried to murder Marimar Martinez but failed.
    Just 2\1/2\ months later, Federal agents killed Renee Good.
    Just 17 days after that, Federal agents killed Alex Pretti.
    Each time, Republicans on this Committee have blamed the
    victims. If they had only been exercising their First Amendment
    rights, they would be alive today, or if Ms. Martinez hadn't
    panicked after Federal agents ran up behind her, put an AR-15
    to her head, and said, quote, ``do something, bitch,'' if she
    had just stayed calm, maybe she wouldn't have been shot five
    times. This is what failed policy looks like, and these
    families deserve to have a voice when they are discussing
    immigration enforcement policies in the United States.
        Republicans would rather parade families experiencing
    tragedy around the halls of Congress for political purposes
    than to actually fix our broken immigration system. In fact, I
    don't know how many people remember, but, prior to the
    Presidential election, the House and the Senate had worked on
    legislation, and there was a candidate that did not want us to
    take up the legislation because they wanted to campaign on a
    broken system. The bad part about campaigning on broken systems
    is that they continue to allow for harm to be permeated
    throughout the entirety of our country, and that is exactly
    what happened and that is what is happening right now.
        In fact, Republicans are ignoring all crime across the
    United States. They refuse to enforce congressional subpoenas
    to advance the investigation into the Epstein pedophile ring.
    They have been completely silent on the fact that Donald Trump
    issued unconditional pardons for January 6th insurrectionists,
    many of whom were convicted on separate charges of rape,
    stalking, child abuse, domestic violence, drug trafficking, and
    possession of child porn. For months, they have ignored Trump's
    and Hegseth's war crimes when they ordered the killings of
    noncombatant civilians, many of whom were just fishermen; and
    now they're ignoring the President's illegal war and genocidal
    threats against the Iranian people.
        Republicans have completely abandoned the American people.
    The ATF case referrals are down. The DEA case referrals are
    down. The number of weapons seized by DHS dropped by almost 80
    percent. Drug arrests are down. In just the first six months of
    his administration, Trump's DOJ ended 23,000 criminal cases,
    including investigations into terrorism, tax evasion, drug
    trafficking, and other violent crimes. The Republicans on this
    Committee haven't held a single hearing, started any
    investigations, or done anything about it. Drug traffickers,
    men who prey on children, murderers, and potential terrorists
    are all roaming the streets of America because they would
    rather use these families' tragedy for political gain.
        I am going to be real honest about this. Your children
    should be here today. Believe me when I tell you that. While I
    sit in this imperfect government, and we all know that
    government is run by imperfect people because we are all human,
    there are policies that can be changed. It would be my hope and
    prayer that we start to bring about policy changes that can
    prevent loss of life all around.
        Right now, as federally elected officials, the one thing
    that we could do to start to save at least some folk is to
    focus on the fact that we have what seems to be government-
    sanctioned violence that is leading to people dying. We are the
    ones that oversee these government officials, and I would
    encourage the Chair to hold a hearing so that we can do that
    part because we are not elected to run any city. We are elected
    on the Federal level, and we are the ones that are supposed to
    have oversight over DHS and others.
        With that, I will yield.
        Mr. Van Drew. I thank the Ranking Member. When I make a
    mistake, I make a mistake. It is important to me to start each
    meeting, and I forgot to do it, with the pledge, so we're going
    to stand up and do the pledge and then a moment of silence,
    just thinking about all that is transpiring. Please stand.
        All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States
    of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one
    Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for
    all.
        Mr. Van Drew. Remain silent for a moment of silence.
        (Moment of silence observed.)
        Mr. Van Drew. I am now going to recognize the Chair of the
    Committee of the whole, Mr. Jordan.
        Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for that moment
    of silence. Thank you for doing this hearing. I thank our
    witnesses, particularly Ms. Heiling, Ms. Fox, and Ms.
    Wilkinson, for being here and for your loss.
        I just said this on the House floor, but it is worth saying
    again. Think about what has happened in our country. First, for
    four years, the Democrats allowed 10 million illegal migrants
    to enter our Nation. Second, they set up sanctuary
    jurisdictions all over the country to make it more difficult to
    remove illegal migrants who commit crime. Third, they don't
    want to fund the people who actually remove those illegal
    migrants who commit crime. They don't want to fund ICE. That is
    their plan, and they are executing it. Of course, what is the
    end result? Tragedies like all your families have had to
    endure. That is what happens. That is what happens when you
    adopt the plan that they are putting in action. That is exactly
    what happens.
        This is not political, as the Ranking Member just said.
    This is the facts. You have lived it in the worst way possible,
    the worst way, the most personal to your entire family. What
    has happened is tragic, and you know that, but you're willing
    to come here and testify because you want that plan to be
    stopped. Let in 10 million, create sanctuary jurisdictions
    where illegal migrants commit crimes, almost a third of the
    country is in that kind of jurisdiction: 18 cities, 11 States,
    three counties, and the District of Columbia, that kind of
    jurisdiction. Then, oh, the guys who go out and stop those bad
    guys, illegal migrants who did crime, they defunded them. Wow.
    That is the Democrats' plan? That is scary.
        This is not political. This is for you to come tell your
    story, so, hopefully, we can stop what they've started to the
    tune of 10 million. Oh, by the way, it just got worse, it just
    got worse because on the House floor they said anyone who came
    here under temporary protected status is now going to be
    permanent. Three-hundred thousand Haitians who entered the
    country during the Biden Administration, we are going to make
    that permanent. They're making it even worse.
        This is not a political hearing. This is to get the facts
    and the truth about the tragedy you have had to endure because
    of Democrat policies, plain and simple. I want to thank the
    Chair for his work, for this hearing, and for your courage and
    your willingness to come here today and tell the story.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Van Drew. I thank the Chair. I recognize the Ranking
    Member from the State of Maryland.
        Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to thank
    the family members who came to Washington today to tell us the
    stories of how they lost their children. Please forgive my
    black and bloody eye. I am nursing a medical injury, but I did
    not want to miss this important hearing. If the light gets too
    intense, forgive me if I put the sunglasses back on.
        There is no pain, Mr. Chair, no anguish, no trauma, and no
    catastrophe worse for any parent than having to bury your
    child. My heart and my sympathy go to all of you who lost a
    child, as I did, and to your children who lost a brother or a
    sister. Nothing hurts more than losing a child, a family
    member, in the prime of their life or having them suffer a
    catastrophic injury or assault because someone else decided
    that their life didn't matter. You are all here today, bravely,
    to tell us how much the lives of your children did matter and
    do matter and to ensure that their legacies here on Earth,
    while senselessly cut short or dramatically altered, still live
    on in your work and in your families.
        In telling your loved ones' stories, you are advancing the
    righteous goal of ensuring that no other person suffers the
    pain of what you have gone through. You will not find a single
    member in this body who disagrees with your goal or your
    mission. This is a House, this is a Congress, filled on both
    sides with mothers and fathers, uncles and aunts, grandparents,
    brothers and sisters, and sons and daughters. We all want to
    protect our families and to keep them safe from harm.
        The terrible crimes that your families have suffered must
    be universally condemned. Victims of violent crimes, all
    violent crimes, victims of vehicular homicides, victims of
    reckless driving, all of them must be listened to, must be
    heard, and must be respected. Victims must receive justice for
    the dreadful crimes that took their loved ones away.
    Perpetrators must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our
    laws. Those who attack police officers or those who attack
    civilians must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our laws.
    No one should be granted a blanket pardon without proof of
    remorse, rehabilitation, or restitution to their victims. Once
    perpetrators have served their sentence here, if they are in
    our country illegally, they should be removed from our country.
        This is not a partisan problem, and nobody should try to
    turn it into a partisan problem. Tragically, the stories that
    we hear today can be told of any President. President Bush,
    President Obama, President Trump, and President Biden, each of
    their administrations released undocumented immigrants who went
    on to commit violent crimes. We could fill the room with people
    speaking of their lost family members at the hands of people
    who came into the country illegally under Democratic and
    Republican Administrations alike.
        It is not a partisan problem. Everyone knows our
    immigration system has been broken for decades. Administration
    after administration, we have lacked the political will to do
    the hard work of putting together a bipartisan solution. We
    need an immigration system that makes it a lot harder to come
    here illegally or impossible to come here illegally and a lot
    easier to come here legally to participate in the American
    dream. We need an immigration system that gives dreamers and
    others who have built a productive and law-abiding life in our
    country a pathway to legal status.
        Alas, this administration is focused on mass arrests, mass
    detention, and mass deportation that are dividing our country
    in unprecedented ways. To achieve this goal, the DHS is not
    focused on going after the worst of the worst. The category of
    violent criminals quickly exhausted, with Stephen Miller
    demanding 3,000 draconian immigration arrests every single day,
    Federal agents simply started indiscriminately rounding up
    immigrants and American citizens who looked like immigrants,
    according to the agents. ICE has arrested kindergartners,
    daycare teachers, and parents dropping off their kids at
    school. They dragged U.S. citizen grandparents out of their
    homes in their underwear in subzero temperatures and ripped
    children from their beds in the middle of the night, using them
    as bait to arrest their parents.
        When ICE does manage to arrest people with criminal records
    or charges, those are often people who are currently in
    custody. In many cases, ICE is effectively giving criminals get
    out of jail free cards by deporting them in the middle of their
    criminal sentences or, even worse, deporting them before their
    trials can even begin, depriving their victims of justice. All
    so the agency can simply jack up the President's deportation
    numbers. This makes it vital to hear from families like yours
    who have suffered from terrible crimes to hear about the
    importance of accountability for those crimes.
        Your testimony is an important and powerful reminder that
    the fundamental responsibility of our Federal law enforcement
    and justice system is to keep the people safe and to ensure
    that no one is ever above the law and no one is ever beneath
    it. The government must stand on the side of victims of crimes,
    not their perpetrators. I tried to remind Attorney General
    Bondi of that principle when she appeared here before our
    Committee. That is why we have been so focused on insisting
    that we hear from the victims of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine
    Maxwell and their elite pedophile network, the women survivors
    who our government has failed at every turn. We failed to
    protect them from the appalling human trafficking and rape ring
    in the first place. Then, our government failed them again by
    not holding any of Epstein's powerful friends accountable,
    exposing victims' names while censoring the names of
    perpetrators and playing outrageous political games with the
    files and DOJ's possession that they are legally compelled to
    turn over to Congress and make public.
        I was happy to hear that the First Lady of the United
    States agrees with that. We hope that our Committee will heed
    her call to hold hearings, as Ms. Trump said, ``with the
    survivors of Jeffrey Epstein's billion-dollar global sex
    trafficking ring.''
        This is also why we speak up for all the people victimized
    and harmed by the people who stormed the Capitol on January 6,
    2021. Not only the over 150 police officers who were
    bludgeoned, beaten, crushed, and even died because of what
    happened that day, but also for all those who have been harmed
    by the January 6th perpetrators after they got their pardons
    from President Trump. These pardon recipients have gone on to
    abuse women and children, plot murders, and commit sexual
    assault and kidnapping.
        After January 6th rioter Andrew Paul Johnson got his pardon
    from President Trump, he repeatedly sexually abused two 12-
    year-old children and tried to keep them quiet by promising to
    share with them some of the millions of dollars in restitution
    that he plans to receive from the Trump Administration. If not
    for President Trump's pardon, these children never would have
    been molested. Their innocence would not have been shattered by
    this monster.
        It is essential to hear from people harmed also by the
    aggressive police State style immigration enforcement tactics
    that have terrified the country. They don't target the worst of
    the worst; they are the worst of the worst. This includes
    hearing from the families of the three American citizens ICE
    agents have gunned down point-blank in our streets, like Renee
    Good, the 36-year-old mother and poet who was shot three times
    in the head and body by an ICE officer while she was driving
    her car.
        This includes the American citizens who have been profiled,
    beaten, detained, and even deported by ICE. It includes the
    police officers who are finding it more difficult to do their
    jobs because immigrant communities no longer trust them and
    prosecutors whose cases are stymied because ICE deports their
    defendants, witnesses, and victims before their trials can even
    begin, and it includes the family members of people who have
    died at the hands of their abusers because they were too afraid
    to report them to the police for fear they would be deported.
        Failing to arrest and deport the worst of the worst makes
    all of us less safe, but so, too, does allowing Federal agents
    to trample the rights and freedoms of the American people.
        I want to thank you all again for appearing before us today
    and hope that we will continue to listen to the voices of
    everyone whose lives have been so immeasurably altered by the
    failure of our government to act and enact meaningful policy
    changes to keep all our streets and all our people safe. I look
    forward to hearing your testimony today, and I yield back, Mr.
    Chair.
        Mr. Van Drew. I thank the Ranking Member. Without
    objection, all other opening statements will be included in the
    record.
        We now will introduce today's witnesses.
        Ms. Patricia Fox. Ms. Fox lives in Denver metro area and is
    the full-time caregiver to her daughter, Carissa. Carissa was
    hit by an unlicensed and uninsured driver who entered the
    United States illegally. She sustained a traumatic brain injury
    and now requires full-time care.
        Jen Heiling. Ms. Heiling is the mother of Brady Heiling, a
    young man who, along with his girlfriend, were hit by an
    illegal alien. Brady died from his injuries five days later,
    while his girlfriend was killed instantly. The alien was a
    Honduran national and was intoxicated and driving the wrong way
    on the highway.
        Mr. Antonio Romanucci. Mr. Romanucci is the founding
    partner of Romanucci Blandin, a Chicago-based law firm. He
    represents the family of Renee Good.
        Ms. Laura Wilkerson. Ms. Wilkerson is the mother of Joshua
    Wilkerson, a young man who was beaten to death, set on fire by
    an illegal alien who was his high school classmate. Joshua was
    giving this individual a ride home from school when he attacked
    him.
        We are going to begin by swearing you all in. Would you
    please rise? Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm
    under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to
    give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge,
    information, and belief, so help you God.
        Thank you. You may sit down. Let the record reflect the
    witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Please know that
    your written testimony will be entered into the record in its
    entirety. We ask that you summarize your testimony to no longer
    than five minutes.
        Ms. Fox, you may begin.

                       STATEMENT OF PATRICIA FOX

        Ms. Fox. Thank you for reminding us where we were. I
    thought for a second that I wandered into an Epstein file
    hearing. ``Now, that I have been holding my arms open to what
    life has to offer me, I couldn't be happier.'' That was the
    last text from my daughter roughly two hours before an
    unlicensed, uninsured, illegal alien would run a stop sign,
    cross three lanes of traffic without looking, and collide with
    Carissa, slamming her head first into a concrete barrier. The
    driver then fled the scene with her boyfriend and aunt, not
    knowing if my daughter was alive or dead.
        My daughter was ambitious. She was enrolled in esthetician
    school. She quickly rose to the top of her class, landed jobs
    with high-end salons. She would smile with confidence as she
    talked about her dreams of opening a skincare line based on
    beauty secrets around the world. She was very specific that her
    goal was to make quality skincare affordable for everyone
    because everyone deserved to feel beautiful. I was so proud of
    the young woman that Carissa was blossoming into before my
    eyes. She would have done it, too, because when my daughter put
    her mind to something, she achieved it.
        Now, she's minimally conscious, nonverbal, is wheel chair
    bound, and eats through a feeding tube. She has very little
    cognitive control over her body. She communicates discomfort
    through grunts and moans and, at night, she often calls out to
    me. I think she is afraid of the dark, or being alone, or both.
    I don't know for sure because she can't tell me.
        I know the pulse ox that monitors her vitals while she is
    sleeping says her heart rate is high when I walk in. Then, I
    touch her arm and sing to her in those wee hours, and her heart
    rate goes back down and she goes to sleep. To think, we're the
    lucky ones. My little girl survived. I still get to kiss her. I
    still get to hold her hand. Many Angel Families don't get that.
        That blessing is not lost on me. For us, there is hope,
    regardless of what the doctors say, because my God is big and
    he happens to be in the business of miracles. Hope for the
    future does not erase today's reality. That reality is my
    daughter's care is now my full-time responsibility. Her medical
    needs are extensive. Her medical bills well into seven figures
    and growing. The person responsible for this has contributed
    nothing.
        I am not here out of anger, but out of responsibility,
    responsibility to my daughter and responsibility to ensure that
    what happened to Carissa is not simply dismissed as an
    unfortunate exception but recognized as an all-too-common
    pattern. This is not just about my family. Destructive
    sanctuary policies carry real-world consequences. Angel
    Families live with these consequences every day. Each Angel
    Family that comes before all of you is risking more pain and
    trauma. We receive death threats. We have lost friends. We have
    to relive our trauma over and over again, every time we tell
    our stories.
        Who is going to tell our stories if we don't? You will
    never hear Carissa's story from Colorado Democrats, like John
    Hickenlooper, Jason Crow, Brittany Petersen, or Joe Neguse.
    Here we are telling our stories until not one more American
    daughter, American son, or American family loses a loved one to
    these fully preventable tragedies.
        We are often told that illegal aliens commit crimes at
    lower rates than American citizens. They say studies show, but
    when you start digging into those studies they don't hold up
    under scrutiny. Let's talk about some statistics that we do
    know. Unlicensed drivers are estimated to have five times
    higher risk of being involved in a fatal crash. They are often
    involved in reckless behaviors, such as speeding and impaired
    driving, leading to higher rates of serious injury and
    fatalities. Colorado has one of the highest rates of uninsured
    drivers in the United States, with estimates between 17-20
    percent. Of all uninsured Colorado drivers, about 25 percent
    are estimated to be unlicensed illegal aliens. Do you think
    that a driver is magically protected from these statistics
    simply because they are undocumented?
        Here's another factual statistic: Entering the United
    States illegally is considered a criminal offense under Federal
    law. One-hundred percent of illegal aliens are criminals.
        We often hear that enforcement should only focus on the
    worst of the worst. My daughter was not harmed by someone that
    was labeled as the worst of the worst. She was harmed by
    someone who shouldn't have been in a position to hurt her in
    the first place.
        I reject the idea that families must wait for tragedy
    before action is taken. There should not have to be a Carissa,
    a Brady, a Hallie, or a Joshua. Public policy should not
    require a threshold of victims on either side. Our children are
    not your collateral damage. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Fox follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. Fox. No words, no words. Ms.
    Heiling, you are next. Thank you.

                     STATEMENT OF JENNIFER HEILING

        Ms. Heiling. Thank you. My name is Jennifer Heiling. I am
    an Angel Mom, and I am from a small town in Minnesota. My son,
    Brady Heiling, and his girlfriend, Hallie Helgeson, were
    tragically killed while celebrating their three-year
    anniversary at a concert in Wisconsin. We got a text that they
    had made it to their car and were headed home. This would be
    the last thing that we had ever heard from them. On July 20,
    2025, our lives came to a screeching halt. Brady and Hallie
    were innocently driving home while an illegal immigrant that
    was driving the wrong way while intoxicated crashed into them.
    She was a multiple offender two times over her legal limit and
    had failed to install her interlock device that would have
    prevented this whole incident from happening. Above all else,
    she has never had a driver's license to be on the road in the
    first place.
        This woman was not a hardened criminal. She was just a mom
    that was allowed to live in this country completely exempt from
    consequences for breaking our laws. Time after time, she was
    allowed to keep living here above the law without any attempt
    to change her behavior and bad decisions. The ability to seek
    protection and be shielded by living in a sanctuary city will
    continue to allow illegal immigrants to continue to take the
    innocent lives of Americans.
        If you want to seek refuge in our country and make a better
    life for yourself, I am in total support but expect you to
    follow our laws. Our safety depends on it. Why are we allowing
    people to live among us that want to cause us harm? Why are we
    expected to allow them to keep offending and not be deported?
    Do you think this is really helping anyone seek a better life?
    It is not. This is called being an enabler. If you are unable
    to live by the laws of this country, you should be removed at
    the very first offense. Why are we waiting for our children to
    be murdered? If the woman responsible for murdering our
    children was deported after the first time she was drinking and
    driving, we wouldn't be forced to be living this nightmare.
        To allow someone to continue to be on the road with
    multiple traffic violations, a history of drinking and driving,
    not to mention never legally obtaining a driver's license or
    citizenship, is absolutely recklessness. This entire tragedy
    was completely preventable, and not just for us but for her
    too. If you think allowing anyone to live their lives here
    without consequence is helping them in any way become a better
    person, you are mistaken. This woman will have to live the rest
    of her life knowing she not only murdered two innocent
    teenagers full of hopes, dreams, just ready to start their
    lives together, but she also destroyed her life, our life, our
    community, and our community's lives. Generations of kids and
    classmates left to figure out why was this allowed to happen.
    It should have never happened.
        Try to explain to Brady's 11-year-old sister that he will
    never attend another one of her events to cheer her on. He will
    never get to see her grow up. Explain to his 16-year-old sister
    he won't get to be here to protect her from the guys with bad
    intentions or meeting her newest farm animal addition. Tell
    Hallie's brother that he is now an only child, all because an
    illegal immigrant that was allowed to live in a sanctuary city
    while breaking our laws repeatedly until she finally murdered
    someone with her reckless selfish ways. Please, I beg you to
    explain to me that I will not get to watch my son grow into the
    man I was so diligently raising him to be. I will not get to
    see him succeed at all his goals he has worked so hard to make
    come true. Then, you explain to Hallie's mom why she will never
    get to see her little girl become a mother herself, and you
    explain to her dad why he will never get to walk his little
    girl down the aisle and give her away.
        Please, I ask that you tell my husband that the company he
    spent his whole life building was for nothing. Brady will never
    get to work alongside of him just so that a group of people
    that feel it is more important to protect those illegal
    immigrants let them keep offending until they completely
    destroy the lives of innocent children and families is more
    important than our rights and safety of American citizens.
        It is really easy to say that we need to protect these
    groups when you are unaffected. It is really easy for people I
    don't even know to sit there and say my kids deserve better
    than to be part of a political agenda. If you believe this to
    be true, you are sadly mistaken. I don't want to be here. We
    don't want to be here, but we weren't given a choice. Our
    children were murdered. Here we are trying to prevent this
    nightmare from happening to anyone else.
        It is to protect the loved ones of the very people
    attacking us. Some of my own family find it necessary to tell
    me this is an issue of drinking and driving, not immigration.
    If this particular woman would have been responsibly dealt with
    and deported after the first time drinking and driving, then we
    would not be in this position right now. My entire future has
    been literally stolen from me in a way that will never make
    sense, and it still doesn't seem real.
        I should be listening to Brady and Hallie tell me about
    college and about how they can't wait to come home for the
    summer. Because we continue to protect people like this and
    give them free reign in our communities, the innocent lives
    will continue to be taken. Angel Families will continue to
    multiply. Whose kid has to die before these people will see
    where we are coming from? Whose family has to be destroyed
    before they are willing to admit, hey, we have a problem? What
    tragedy has to rip their lives apart before they realize that,
    when they tell me I need to look at my situation differently,
    it is selfish, heartless, and cruel? If my reasoning is wrong,
    then I pray that you will never know how it feels to live a day
    in my life.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Heiling follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. Heiling. Mr. Romanucci.

                     STATEMENT OF ANTONIO ROMANUCCI

        Mr. Romanucci. Chair Van Drew, Chair Jordan, Ranking Member
    Crockett, and Ranking Member Raskin, my name is Antonio
    Romanucci. I am a national civil rights attorney, and I have
    the deep honor of representing the family of Renee Good. It was
    her tragic death in Minnesota by Federal immigration agents in
    Minneapolis that I took on that representation. I also
    represent U.S. citizens whose constitutional rights were
    violated by Federal agents in Chicago.
        First, please let me express my deepest respect to my
    copanelists and mothers who have suffered unthinkable loss,
    tragedy, and trauma. Your families' tragedies are inexcusable,
    and we respect your courage. As someone who represents victims
    of violent crime, that too often the second tragedy is that
    victims struggle to get the justice that they deserve.
        We share your concern that America needs commonsense
    immigration reform. I have heard all you say the same thing.
    Marching thousands of masked agents into communities, rounding
    up Black and Brown people, including children, terrorizing
    them, while creating collateral damage of death and
    catastrophic harm to American citizens, that's not the answer.
    All Americans should feel safe in their own cities where
    citizens are free from unlawful harm from anyone, including
    agents of their own government. Harm of Americans, by
    Americans, in American cities is devastating to our Republic.
    Those who have committed these violations of rights must be
    held accountable, just as all people who commit violent acts
    must be held accountable.
        Allow me to give insight into an American mother of three,
    Renee Good, who was killed while she was squarely being
    protected by the First Amendment. Here are words that her
    brother spoke to fellow Members of Congress not long ago,
    quote:

            The deep distress our family feels because of Renee's loss in
            such a violent and unnecessary way is complicated by feelings
            of disbelief and desperation for change. Our family took some
            consolation thinking that perhaps Renee's death would bring
            change in our country. It has not. These encounters with
            Federal agents are changing many lives, including ours,
            forever. The most important thing we can do is help our country
            understand what a beautiful American we have lost. A sister, a
            daughter, a mother, a partner, and friend.

        The distress is also felt by Alex Pretti's family. It is
    felt by Marimar Martinez in Chicago, shot five times by a
    Federal agent while bringing a donation to church. It is felt
    by elected official Juan Munoz, violently detained and used as
    a prop for a DHS video. It is felt by children separated from
    their parents and shipped to detention centers in another
    State.
        Family after family in city after city, the harms by our
    own Federal Government in American cities are staggering:
    Needless injury and death by masked agents undermining trust in
    all law enforcement, violations of freedom of speech, Fourth
    Amendment freedom from unlawful search and seizure, false
    statements of absolute immunity for agents and false narratives
    about victims, and failure to properly investigate claims of
    police misconduct.
        What is not understood is that Renee Good's family cannot
    pursue justice against a Federal officer the same way as if a
    State or local officer had fired those gunshots. This anomaly
    must end. Federal officers should not receive a special pass on
    accountability, and there should be a bridge to justice for all
    victims.
        Current law requires that you ask for permission from this
    Federal Government to file a lawsuit against it and only allows
    for a trial by judge and not a jury in defiance of the 7th
    Amendment. Reasonable updates to Section 1983 of the Civil
    Rights Act or the Federal Tort Claims Act are needed to ensure
    access to justice and accountability for wrongdoers. I urge
    Congress to ensure all people have the right to a jury trial,
    including those hurt or killed by Federal officers.
        In conclusion, I deeply respect the mothers who spoke their
    truths today. Their pain and anger are something no parent
    should ever experience, and it is palpable in this room. The
    family of Renee Good and so many other families impacted by the
    acts of Federal agents have, likewise, suffered immeasurable
    pain and anger, and all victims are worthy of the right to seek
    accountability.
        We all want safety and peace. Criminal acts of all kinds
    must be addressed. Please create commonsense immigration
    policies. Pursue accountability for the harm done by ICE with
    the same level of commitment that you pursue accountability for
    all people who commit crimes in this country and demand full
    compliance to our United States Constitution. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Romanucci follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                      STATEMENT OF LAURA WILKERSON

        Ms. Wilkerson. Thank you for having me here today to tell
    you the story of my son, Joshua. My husband and I raised three
    children, and Josh was the baby of our family. He was 18 years
    old and a senior in high school. A classmate of his asked him
    for a ride home and, unbeknownst to him, that classmate wanted
    to murder Josh so that he could scrap his truck for some money.
        Instead of getting Josh home that day, we got an autopsy
    report that explained just exactly how Josh died. There were
    three manners of death: Abdomen trauma, head trauma, and
    strangulation. I guess I feel lucky that he was dead before he
    was set on fire.
        This creates a hole in a family like you can never imagine.
    It will never be repaired here. Our lives will be different. It
    is like a bomb was dropped in our family. Even if we could pick
    up the pieces, you can't put them back together, right?
        I am OK with where Josh is at today. What I am not OK with
    are the lies that I am hearing as I sit here sometimes.
        Josh deserved to live. His brother was defending this
    country in the Air Force. He got to come home for two weeks to
    bury his little brother and then go back to defending this
    country and put his grief on the shelf. Now, that he is out, he
    deals with things later and it affects our family in every
    single way.
        The lies I want to talk about today are what I am hearing
    from Ms. Crockett and Mr. Raskin about I think you said there's
    potential terrorists roaming the streets. Those are due to
    sanctuary city policies. You invited the criminal element to,
    hey, come to our city and we are going to give you a sanctuary.
    What are you giving them a sanctuary from? The law? Who else
    gets sanctuary from the law? Do I get it? You feel sympathy for
    me? I am never going to be the same. Can I go do what I want to
    do and get sanctuary from the law?
        I can't even understand how you can say you are inviting
    the criminal element to come to your city and what you are
    doing is putting them over the citizens, the ones that are
    supposed to be voting for you, although we know illegals vote
    in the elections. Failed policies are under Obama inviting,
    opening the U.S. border to any and everybody, allowing them
    without vetting them, and shipping them off to other parts of
    the country so that they can vote in that area, giving them
    driver's licenses, giving them social security cards, allowing
    them to be citizens without being citizens and vote for a
    certain party.
        The lies about what you are saying are just that--they're
    lies. They can protest and, as far as Ms. Good's family, walk
    down the street all day long with a protest sign, walk down it
    all day long. You can fix it by telling them you can't get in
    the middle of a law enforcement investigation. I don't care how
    bad you think the policy is wrong. Don't get in the middle of
    an investigation of law enforcement. That would be the first
    way not to die if you want a simple protest.
        Antifa is not peaceful protesting. Those are the lies. It
    is lie after lie after lie after lie. None of you care about
    these people. You don't care about my kid. You don't care about
    theirs. You don't care about Ms. Good. It just suits you. It is
    frustrating to hear the lies after lies after lies, and it is
    over and over and over.
        I had hoped at my testimony 10 years ago, I wouldn't have
    to meet new families like this. Boy, I was so naive. We are
    still talking about giving sanctuary to people that broke the
    law. What about the people that stood in line and did it the
    hard way? Wrote letters home to their home country and said,
    ''look, we made it to America.'' They didn't know how to speak
    the language. They didn't have a car. They didn't have a lot of
    money. They did it the right way, and they were granted the
    American dream. Many of them accomplished that. What about
    those people you are letting in; in front of those people? How
    does that make sense in your eyes? How do you sleep at night
    saying you are gonna give sanctuary to people who broke into
    this country?
        I don't know how you sleep at night, but what I do know is
    you don't care about our kids. They are collateral damage in
    the things that you want to happen. That is all they are. They
    are collateral damage. You can tell me about the sympathy, and
    I believe your sympathy. You don't want anybody to die. I
    understand that. Think about if it is your kid. You got any
    grandkids? You got kids? Think about your baby, a baby in your
    family, and think about in an hour you may have to go home
    watch or listen to your wife tell you that your son didn't come
    home from school today because he was beaten and tortured and
    set on fire by somebody that didn't need to be in this country.
        His parents had overstayed a visa. His father was given a
    Social Security card and a driver's license so that he could
    work, and he overstayed that visa. Then, he brought his whole
    family here without a visa to come in illegally. That is what I
    am mad about. If you really cared about this, you would stand
    up and quit calling for sanctuary cities. It makes no sense.
        All you're doing is trying to put people that have come
    into the country illegally before American citizens, especially
    even about the Renee Good. I feel for their family. They have
    lost a family member through no fault of their own, but she
    chose to go there that day. She chose to aim her car at a
    policeman. If she chose those actions, that got her killed. ICE
    isn't just deciding who to pick up. They are going after
    criminals in this country, and, if you're in the middle of that
    and you get in the middle of it and you want to go out there
    and tell them they shouldn't be doing it and you are an
    illegal, pick you up, too. Sorry. That's just the way it has to
    be.
        President Trump and Tom Homan and the Border Patrol have
    stopped the leak of illegal immigration in this country. It is
    ICE's job to clean up the dang mess. It is going to be hard.
    There are going to be casualties. There are going to be unhappy
    people and families that are hurting. I say if you are not
    putting your kids six feet under the dirt and turning around
    and walking away from the cemetery, you will be all right.
        Stop the nonsense. Stop it. It is time to clean up the mess
    of what happened under the last few administrations. I really
    don't care if they are unhappy. I am so grateful they could go
    home and see their kid, or they can FaceTime their kid in
    another country or the kid here can FaceTime. Their parents put
    them in that situation. Their parents brought him over or
    brought them over there when they were young. I understand it
    is no fault of the kids, but their parents put him that
    situation. You have parents in other countries that come here
    illegally and then they call for some yahoo to transport their
    kid across the border to join them. They don't care if they get
    raped all along the way because that's what happens. We know
    it, I know it, and you know it.
        Mr. Van Drew. Ms. Wilkerson, I could listen to you all day,
    and I mean it. I could. Your time has expired. I have been very
    lenient. You are about 1\1/2\ minutes over.
        Ms. Wilkerson. Sorry.
        Mr. Van Drew. No, don't be sorry. I am sorry I have to say
    this, but if you could wrap it up. Your entire testimony,
    anything else you have to say, will be put in the permanent
    record.
        Ms. Wilkerson. Thank you. Thank you for listening to me. I
    just want you to know that the leak has been stopped. Continue
    to fight to clean up the mess. Stop the nonsense of sanctuary
    cities.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Wilkerson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Ms. Wilkerson. We are going to now
    proceed under the five-minute rule with questions for those on
    the panel, and we are going to start with Mr. Schmidt from the
    State of Kansas.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank all our
    witnesses for being here and for not just taking your time but
    for giving your hearts. We are grateful for sharing your
    stories because it makes it real for people who are watching
    and who will read this record and who understand that this is
    more than a policy debate. Thank you for your time.
        Let me start with this direction. Ms. Wilkerson, let me
    start with you. I am sorry, I didn't catch, where is your home
    State?
        Ms. Wilkerson. It was Houston, Texas.
        Mr. Schmidt. In Texas.
        Ms. Wilkerson. I live just outside of Houston, yes.
        Mr. Schmidt. What happened to the person who killed your
    child?
        Ms. Wilkerson. I got justice in a court of law, probably
    because it was in Texas. He could have gotten between 5-99
    years. He received 99 years, and that means he has to serve 30
    years before he comes up for parole. We have about another 15
    years before I have to start fighting not to let him out--him
    getting out of jail.
        I am grateful that he got some justice. I know so many
    parents don't get that.
        Mr. Schmidt. Ms. Heiling, may I ask you the same question?
    What happened to the person who killed your child?
        Ms. Heiling. Brady and Hallie had their crash happen this
    past July. We have been pushed off and pushed off. Things take
    time, we're told. This is just how it works. Be patient. Try to
    raise your family, try to go about your life, but be patient.
    We are still living this justice you speak of.
        Mr. Schmidt. How old was Brady?
        Ms. Heiling. He was 19, and Hallie was 18.
        Mr. Schmidt. Brady looked like quite an athlete from the
    photos.
        Ms. Heiling. Brady and Hallie were both amazing athletes.
    Brady turned down scholarships to stay home and support Hallie
    in her athletics. They were going to start college together in
    about two weeks. All their college belongings are still in
    their rooms in our basements, just like they're going to come
    back and we're going to send them off someday.
        You are right. He looked like an amazing athlete because he
    was. He is a very special boy to a lot of people that know him
    and that don't know him. He has made a huge impact.
        Mr. Schmidt. I saw what looked like football photos. Was he
    a multisport athlete?
        Ms. Heiling. Brady played football mainly. He was a State
    track athlete. He ran relays and threw the shot put. He went
    two years in a row to the State competition, and he weight
    trained in between times. As you can see by the size of his
    biceps, he never missed a workout session. He was very self-
    disciplined. He was very much a rule follower. To die in the
    way he did, innocently, trying to get home, the rule follower
    in him was screaming at the top of his lungs this woman is
    drunk, she's driving the wrong way, I don't have time to react.
    Why wasn't she home with her own family taking care of them,
    sparing my child?
        Mr. Schmidt. Where were they going to go to college?
        Ms. Heiling. They were going to go over to South Dakota to
    Lake Area Tech. He was planning on opening a diesel mechanic
    shop at our house. We just finished building. Him and his dad
    had spent the whole summer. They own semis and excavating
    equipment. They do a lot of dirt work and truck hauling, and he
    was going to open that shop to be able to service all those
    trucks.
        Like I said, he was very independently driven, had lots of
    goals. He had a plan for him and Hallie. It was a little
    different than what he was anticipating.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, ma'am.
        Ms. Heiling. You are welcome.
        Mr. Schmidt. Ms. Fox, what happened to the person who hit
    your daughter?
        Ms. Fox. I contacted the VOICE, Victims of Immigration
    Crime Engagement, back in January. After our seventh
    arraignment, she took the plea, pleading guilty to Class 5
    felony, conspiracy to flee the scene of an accident with severe
    bodily injury. I filed a report with VOICE, and we received
    news that she has since been deported. February 28th, it was
    confirmed that she is back in Venezuela.
        Mr. Schmidt. Each of the three of you had interaction with
    the criminal justice system after the crimes that injured or
    killed your children. Since this all happened, to each of the
    three mothers just quickly, has anybody who engaged in the
    policies that let those people stay in this country illegally
    beforehand, has anybody contacted you and expressed sympathy or
    apologized to you?
        Ms. Heiling. No. We have heard from one politician from our
    local area expressing his sincere condolences, but we have
    heard nothing about anything that was done wrong in justice, as
    much as Ms. Renee Good has received.
        Ms. Wilkerson. I had several Republicans express their
    sympathy, but most of the others just wanted to look away and
    they are not emotionally strong enough to look at it, let alone
    live through it, but they are not going to change a policy.
    That is why I fully believe that our kids are just collateral
    damage.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you. My time is expired, Mr. Chair. I
    just want to say we are very sorry that our country let this
    happen to you.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Schmidt. I recognize the
    gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Hank Johnson.
        Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am so sorry for what
    has happened to your children. I cannot imagine what you have
    gone through, and no parent should have to go through what you
    have gone through. All victims of violent crime deserve
    justice, but this hearing is not about justice.
        It is entitled, ``The Human Toll of Sanctuary Policies:
    Stories From Victims and Families.'' We could very well have
    done a hearing on the human toll of the Trump-MAGA tax cuts on
    17 million Americans who got their healthcare access and food
    security ripped out from under them so that the wealthiest
    billionaires in this country could get another tax cut, or we
    could have entitled this hearing or had a hearing on the human
    toll of Trump's stupid war with Iran and how it is making life
    increasingly unaffordable for people here in America except for
    the wealthiest Americans--they can pay whatever the price is.
    We could have had a hearing on the human toll of Trump's
    desperate cover-up of the Epstein files, the toll that has
    played on the victims of that international child sex-abuse
    ring. No, we are here today, and not to cast any aspersions on
    any of you for testifying, but this is a Steve Miller-approved
    hearing whose sole aim is to stir up passion and bias and
    prejudice against immigrants who are people of color.
        Now, we have had mass murder after mass murder in this
    country perpetrated by all kinds of people, but I just want to
    talk about those that have been perpetrated by White males.
    Robert Card opened fire at a bowling alley in Lewiston, Maine,
    killing 18 people and wounding 13. Payton Gendron, a White
    supremacist, killed 10 people in a racist attack at a
    supermarket in Buffalo, New York. Randy Stair, a 32-year-old,
    suspected of killing a family of four in Romeoville, Illinois.
    Richard Dale Crum, a 52-year-old man in Arkabutla, Mississippi,
    who shot and killed six people, including his ex-wife and
    stepfather. The 38-year-old Courtney Gordon who stabbed four
    relatives, including two children, to death in New York City. I
    could go on and on in terms of tragedies and victims of tragedy
    who could be brought here to talk about this MAGA Republican
    failure to do anything about gun control.
        Even the fact that, Mr. Romanucci, you are seated No. 3
    instead of No. 4, normally the three Republican witnesses would
    be seated together, not sandwiching the Democratic witness, in
    between you. You got sandwiched today for the dramatic effect
    of it. It is all politics, and it is unfortunate what my
    friends here on the other side of the aisle are perpetrating.
        Mr. Romanucci, the killing of Ms. Good was by rogue ICE
    officers, Federal agents, who can't even be sued for the damage
    that they have done to your client's loved ones. That is wrong.
    That is why I've introduced the Bivens Act, which would allow
    people to bring Federal officials into court and sue them
    against these egregious actions. There are many. Certainly,
    they equate. I am not minimizing the tragedy that is before us
    today with you three women, but these other tragedies at the
    hands of nonimmigrants is just as important.
        My Bivens Act would ensure that all victims and their loved
    ones can get justice, even if the perpetrator is a government
    official. That is why I've also introduced the Constitutional
    Accountability Act, which would establish that Federal, State,
    and local governments have the same respondent superior
    liability that private employers have for their employees.
        There is much we can do to bring justice to those who have
    been aggrieved by tragedy. This MAGA Republican Congress is
    incapable and unwilling to do anything in that regard, and that
    is unfortunate.
        I am going to be the one who yields back after going only
    11 minutes over. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Yes, that was 11
    seconds over. In 11 minutes, I would have been tapping the
    gavel. With that, Mr. Schmidt.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have some unanimous
    consent requests.
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.
        Mr. Schmidt. I would ask unanimous consent to include in
    the record an article titled, ``ICE Asks Governor Pritzker and
    Chicago Sanctuary Politicians to Not Release Criminal Illegal
    Alien Accused of Killing 18-year-old Loyola College Student.''
        Also, an article titled, ``Mayor Frey's Sanctuary Policies
    Release Criminal Illegal Aliens from Jails Back into
    Minneapolis Streets to Terrorize More Innocent Americans.''
        Also, unanimous consent to include in the record an article
    titled, ``Illinois Father Says Pritzker Shows `Indifference' to
    His Daughter Being Killed by Illegal Immigrant.''
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Ms. Crockett. Mr. Chair, I have a UC.
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.
        Ms. Crockett. This is from the Texas Tribune. It is from
    March 29th, actually my birthday, 2010. ``Houston, no
    sanctuary, Annise Parker, Says,'' who was the mayor at the
    time.
        Ms. Wilkerson. Can I respond to that?
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. You know what? Mr. Gill is going
    to speak next, and he is going to yield some of his time to
    you. Is that OK?
        Ms. Wilkerson. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Van Drew. With that, I recognize Mr. Gill.
        Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for holding this hearing.
    Thank you to the witnesses for coming here and telling us your
    stories and your families' stories. Before we get into that, it
    is worth saying that was one of the most disgusting testimoneys
    I have ever heard. To have Hank come in here and lecture Angel
    Families about how they shouldn't be here, how we shouldn't be
    holding this hearing. What the hell is wrong with you guys? The
    reason they are here is because of open borders that you guys
    perpetrated for four years. To come in here and to turn this
    into a MAGA Republican idiotic low IQ lecture is sickening. To
    whine about which seats they are in, it is disgusting.
        That said, I'd like to give you guys a chance to respond to
    some of the things that you have heard. I will start with you,
    Ms. Wilkerson.
        Ms. Wilkerson. Thank you. I just wanted to say that it was
    a spoken policy of Houston to be a sanctuary. It wasn't written
    at that point. The suburbs around Houston followed that same
    policy. Annise Parker is kind of laughable to me.
        This hearing could also be about why we are not or people
    aren't voting. There is a slush fund for people up here in
    these places that have committed crimes or people have said,
    oh, you've raped and stuff. This hearing could have been about
    that, too, but it is not. It is about our kids that we lost and
    about the very fact that sanctuary city policies is creating a
    haven for people that came to this country illegally. Thank
    you.
        Ms. Heiling. You can put me in whatever order, in whatever
    seat. My tragedy is never going to be OK. I will be last. I
    will be first. I will be 42nd seat, if that is what you want.
    We are so used to hearing everyone tell us, but we are sorry,
    please hear our condolences, but this hearing should be about
    this, this hearing should be about me. It is not. Today is our
    day. Hear us. Leave your buts in your seat. I don't wanna hear
    your buts. Our tragedies are disgusting.
        I still wait for my children to come home. It is not real
    to me. My 11-year-old, my 16-year-old, they are waiting for
    their car to come home with Brady and Hallie in it because
    guess what? It is evidence. We can't have that back yet. My
    garage door is empty. The girls say, mom, we still think they
    are gonna come home and tell us all about the concert and
    celebrating their anniversary because the car is not here. They
    will come home, won't they?
        We can't pick a headstone because that makes it too real,
    but you can sit here and tell us about what kind of hearing
    this should be. Renee Good is not the same as Angel Families.
    She made a choice. She left her home that day, made the choice.
    Brady and Hallie didn't get a choice. Carissa didn't get a
    choice. Joshua didn't get a choice. They are living American
    laws, the American dream. They were trying to make this place
    better, and they were stolen by somebody who doesn't care. Give
    me all your buts, I am used to it.
        Ms. Fox. I don't know if anybody has noticed, but I am not
    White. I wake up Brown every day. I am not sure what race has
    to do with any of this. Four. There are four kids that we
    talked about today, and you all can't seem to stay on topic for
    what, an hour of your time. You got to bring up what about,
    what about, what about.
        No. We are talking about these four kids. We are talking
    about Angel Families. Stay on topic. I don't want to talk about
    Epstein right now. That is another hearing. I don't want to
    talk about ICE detainees. That is another hearing. Right now,
    today, we are talking about sanctuary policies and how they
    have wrecked our families.
        You all come and you all feed Carissa. You get her up from
    her bed using a crane, and then you tell me and lecture me what
    this hearing should be about.
        Mr. Gill. Ms. Wilkerson, we have a little bit more time.
    Would you like to have the floor to respond to anything else
    you've heard today?
        Ms. Wilkerson. I just have to agree with them both. This
    hearing could be about anything, and I appreciate that they
    want to get some things on record, but it is not what it is
    about today. It is about American citizens whose parents try to
    do the right thing.
        I stayed at-home mom because I wanted to give Josh my
    values, my kids my values and teach them right from wrong and
    take them to church. You get almost through to that point, and
    then somebody that shouldn't even have been here just steals
    their life right out from under you. You will never understand
    the pain. I pray that you don't understand the pain.
        It is about giving a group of people sanctuary from the
    law. Nobody gets sanctuary from the law. It is absolutely
    ridiculous. It is hard to believe we are sitting here begging
    you to obey the laws that you all made. There are laws in the
    books. If we just start with that, we would be better off if we
    just start enforcing those. Nobody gets sanctuary from the law.
    How to stay, how to not get killed by the police, don't get
    involved in something they are doing. It is pretty much
    commonsense.
        I want it to remain about the kids, American citizens that
    have been lost. I think this gentleman over here, Mr. Johnson,
    said that you could fill this room. You could fill stadiums.
    They don't keep statistics. They don't want statistics. They
    don't want you to know how many people--
        Mr. Van Drew. Ms. Wilkerson, I'm sorry. I get to be the bad
    guy today. I don't mean to be. I really could listen to all of
    you all day. I am trying, as Chair, to get it under control. We
    have let everybody on both sides--
        Ms. Wilkerson. Thank you. No problem. I can talk for--
        Mr. Van Drew. I know, I know. I thank you for that. Does
    the gentleman yield back?
        Mr. Gill. Yes, I yield back.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. I thank the gentleman. With that,
    I recognize the Ranking Member, Jasmine Crockett.
        Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much. I hear your rage. I don't
    have children and literally have never lost a child, nor have
    one injured, to actually really be in your shoes. One thing
    that I can tell you about the redirection is because so often
    what we see happen is politicians play games. The reality is
    that if you are talking about a sanctuary city, then we are
    talking about city government. We are talking about local
    control, something that the Republicans used to espouse that
    they believed in. They used to believe in whoever lives in that
    city, you elect who is going to run that city. That city,
    whether it is the police department, which it is the police
    department and law enforcement that make the decisions about
    what they do. We don't pick the police chief for any given
    city, not on the Federal level. That comes from the city level.
    That comes from whoever the people of that city actually elect
    to represent them. I believe in local control.
        Same thing. I live in Texas, too; and, baby, I wish I
    didn't have to deal with Governor Greg Abbott. Local control
    dictates that he is the Governor of our State; and, therefore,
    we have State reps, we have State Senators, and we have a
    Governor, and we have county elected officials and city elected
    officials. We are sitting in Washington, DC, right now. We are
    on the Federal level.
        What I believe in is something that the Republicans used to
    scream, which is local control. When we're having a
    conversation and a hearing about the human toll, the title
    specifically is the ``Human Toll of Sanctuary Policies: Stories
    from Victims and Families,'' my deal is we aren't the ones that
    decide what cities do.
        What they have decided to do is they have decided to play
    on your pain, and that is why I am frustrated. Because hear me
    when I say this: I have seen people, whether it was an American
    citizen or not that killed your child or harmed your child, I
    believe it is wrong. To me, it wouldn't have made it any less
    painful, and I could be wrong again because I don't have any
    kids, but if, for some reason, it had been a U.S. citizen that
    ended up harming or killing your child, the pain would still be
    there. It would still hurt. The reality is that what we need to
    do is make sure we are protecting everybody in this country.
        I don't wake up and somehow people look and see that
    there's a ``D'' somewhere around my head or something; and so,
    therefore, I am going to somehow be precluded from harm
    becoming me. When I go out to do policy work--and I have worked
    on the State level, too. The policies that I was writing when I
    was on the State level are different from the Federal level
    because we have different levels of control.
        The one thing that we do have control of you may have
    recognized that the DHS secretary, as we're talking about
    immigration, had to come before this Committee. I want to say
    maybe a day or two after she came before our Committee--because
    we have jurisdiction over her. We don't have jurisdiction over
    your mayors. We have jurisdiction over her. She lost her job.
    The DHS secretary is gone. Now, to be clear about this, the
    Republican President is the one that put her out of her job
    because she was failing.
        The reason that my colleagues have brought these things
    up--and this isn't to say that the harm and the hurt that you
    are feeling, that you should not be feeling that. It is wrong.
    Again, even as a criminal defense attorney, I can't tell you
    how many times I was begging clients to enter pleas.
        In fact, it literally made me remember a case that I had
    with a guy who was a veteran. He had served this country. He
    ended up being put on some new medication, and he also ended up
    drinking with that medication. Now, the medication had a
    warning on the bottle, but he went out, he drove, and he killed
    someone's mother. That client told me he had no criminal
    history. He told me over and over and over, he said, ``just
    give me whatever they are going to give me.'' They offered him
    the max, which was 20 years, and I could not, in good
    conscience, knowing that a jury would not give him the max.
        The only reason we went to trial is because the prosecutor
    wanted to be so greedy. That jury did not give him 20 years. He
    was willing to take 15 years.
        I am here to tell you that it is never right to break any
    of our laws. The reason that we have gone down the line and the
    reason that we brought Mr. Romanucci is because we actually
    have control over CBP, DHS, and ICE. It's just that these guys
    don't want to exacerbate, use that control. They sit there and
    they allow U.S. citizens and non-U.S. citizens to have their
    rights violated, and that is something within our purview.
        If I lived in one of your cities--in fact, I am in Dallas.
    Dallas has a Republican mayor. To be a sanctuary city doesn't
    necessarily mean that you provide sanctuary. It means that you
    are not going to do the Federal Government's job. That is what
    it means. They are local law enforcement. What it means is that
    they are not going to sit there and do the job of Federal
    agents. That is what a sanctuary city means.
        To be clear again, and I have more articles, the city of
    Houston was not--when you talk about someone being a sanctuary
    city, it is an official policy that they are following. It
    can't be that it is one person. It is the official policy of
    the city. Otherwise, it doesn't work if it is just one person.
        I will yield. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your indulgence.
        Mr. Van Drew. Sure. Yes, the gentleman is recognized.
        Mr. Gill. Thank God she won't be back next Congress, but I
    would like to ask for unanimous consent to enter into the
    record a few different things. First, ``ICE agent struck by
    Renee Good's vehicle suffered internal bleeding to torso, DHS
    says.''
        Next, ``DHS reaches more than 4,000 arrests of illegal
    aliens, including murderers, sex offenders, gang members, and
    terrorists in Minnesota since Operation Metro Search began.''
        Another, ``UPDATE, DHS deploys special operations after
    multiple violent attacks on Federal law enforcement by domestic
    terrorists in Chicago.''
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection. I recognize myself for
    five minutes. I want to thank you all for being here, even you,
    Mr. Romanucci. Thank you.
        Mr. Romanucci. Thank you.
        Mr. Van Drew. I know it is hard to believe--I don't have
    the words. I don't have the words. It is hard to believe that
    there are people in politics who give a damn. I swear to God
    there are. I am not going to comment on the other side; I am
    not going to talk about Republicans and Democrats. I am not
    going to talk about Epstein. I am not going to talk about all
    the politics that is swirling around.
        Because so much of it, a lot of times, is BS. You know that
    because you have lived it. You have had to sit in hearings,
    talk to reporters, talk to politicians, and hear all this crap.
    I can speak for me, and I know there is other Members sitting
    up here, if you could feel our hearts, I swear to God. I know I
    said in the beginning it is not enough. I only can say I am
    sorry.
        You guys did a good job. You did a good job. This isn't
    alligator tears or any BS. I admire you for what you have done.
    It is a big deal. It is as hard on you because you have
    somebody that is so incapacitated, and you are there every day.
    Thank you for what you do because your love is so great.
        The three of you have so much faith. That is the one thing
    I got out of this. Thank you for that, as well.
        We talked today about, and I respect the Ranking Member,
    about local government. Yes, it is local governments that are
    doing this. It is States and it is cities, but they are
    breaking the law. They are breaking Federal law. You all said
    it; frankly, we have had legislation that has come before us
    that we have voted for, but it is not going to make it all the
    way through. Not enough people voted for it, that those cities,
    those towns, those counties, those States don't get their
    funding. You want to see politicians run? Man, you take away
    the money that they get, they are going to run.
        Yes, there are States' rights. I believe in the
    individuality of the States' rights and how our constitution
    was set up. First, it doesn't allow you to break Federal law.
    Second, we had wide open borders, man; we just did. This isn't
    a political debate. Nobody is going to vote for or against me
    on anything in this room today, but we did. We let really bad
    people in. Somebody, one of our Members, said, well,
    ``tragedies happen and it could have been an American citizen
    who did that.'' Yes, we couldn't help that because they are an
    American citizen. How do we know? You don't know when you wake
    up in the morning what somebody's going to do to you or to your
    family, your children, whatever.
        This was preventable. That is the word here. You broke the
    law. They broke the law, and it was preventable. It didn't have
    to be that way. We have talked about it for years.
        I love immigrants. I love legal immigrants. Many of us, our
    parents, our grandparents, and our great grandparents came
    here. They busted their ass to make a living and to do the
    right thing and to be responsible. They were good people. That
    is not what we are talking about here.
        An aspect of all this that we have didn't even mention is
    how much this cost us. Who cares about the money when you think
    a human life. Even beyond that, some of these people we have to
    transport, we have to feed them, we have to house them, and we
    have to educate them. It is nothing against immigrants, and it
    is not trying to hurt anybody. They broke the law and some of
    them are Godawful. Those statistics that everybody has read
    today, they are real. It is not three or four. It is thousands
    and millions were let in our country. No country has ever
    prevailed in all world history when it just bleeds open like
    that.
        This hearing, more importantly than the politics, liberal,
    conservative, Republican, and Democrat, I just wanted people to
    hear. I wish every American, I swear to God, so they didn't
    have to hear us, but I wish they could just hear you. It's why
    your job is so hard because you know what? Let me tell, truth
    be told, yes, we will do some news hits maybe. Mr. Schmidt will
    get interviewed or I will get interviewed or Jasmine will get
    interviewed. A lot of people aren't going to know what happened
    here today. They're not. You have to keep pushing, and you have
    to keep working. I want you to know, and I mean this, forget
    the BS politics. A lot of people love you for what you have
    done and the courage you have shown. You didn't have to do it.
    This is a pain coming here, and you really live that pain every
    single time you do it and you don't know who is telling you the
    truth and who is BS'ing you. There are people who care, and I
    pray to God that someday this works out and we don't keep doing
    this.
        I thank you for that. I had a bunch of questions. I don't
    even have the time.
        Mr. Romanucci. Mr. Chair, may I be recognized for 30
    seconds?
        Mr. Van Drew. Yes, you may.
        Mr. Romanucci. Thank you so much. First, whether it was by
    intentional or by happenstance, I embrace the position where I
    am sitting. I hug Moms like you all the time, and I do feel
    your pain. I am fine with where I sit in my position.
        Chair, you are powerful. When you asked us to stand and say
    the Pledge of Allegiance, we all followed you, and the last
    words that we said were liberty and justice for all. I am an
    advocate, and that is what I believe in, and I am asking this
    Congress, this Committee, to find a commonsense approach to
    immigration so that we don't have to do this again. You don't
    have to come back here in a year or 10 years. Ever. Thank you.
        Ms. Heiling. Thirty seconds for me. Just to answer--
        Mr. Van Drew. I probably broke--by the way, they are not
    laws. I probably broke all kinds of rules today, just so you
    know, and I don't care.
        Ms. Heiling. When Ms. Crockett said she doesn't have
    children, so she doesn't know, we are not wired to process the
    type of tragedy that we are living. We are not. There are no
    words. I will tell you it does feel different when an illegal
    immigrant kills your children than it does an American because
    it was preventable. It feels different, not that I know that
    because I have had an American kill a child. When something is
    preventable and your life is ruined from something that is
    preventable, it does hit a little different than what I would
    imagine it would feel like just a regular casualty.
        Loss, in itself, is so difficult, there is no words. Loss
    is loss. It is very tragic. What we are dealing with, when it
    is preventable, when these people have done something and they
    weren't asked to leave, if I were to go to Honduras where the
    woman who killed our children is from and I would kill two
    teenagers there, I am not getting any rights from the
    Hondurans. They are not giving me rights. It is different. This
    is preventable.
        I say it does hit a little differently when our tragedy is
    preventable.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Schmidt.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. In addition to our
    witnesses today, we have others who wish to be sure the
    Committee of the record know their stories. They were unable to
    testify, so I have some unanimous consent requests--
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.
        Mr. Schmidt. I would like to enter into the record a
    statement from Zoey Heiling, the sister of Brady Heiling. I
    would like to enter into the record a statement from Korri
    Heiling, the sister of Brady Heiling; a statement from John and
    Deborah Hosek, I believe, the grandparents; a statement from
    Agnes Gibboney, an Angel Mom; a statement from Joe Abraham, an
    Angel Parent.
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection.
        Mr. Schmidt. Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Schmidt. That concludes--oh,
    I'm sorry.
        Ms. Crockett. Sorry. One more UC. This is from the Houston
    Chronicle, ``Houston is not a city by the definition.'' This is
    from June 30, 2006. More specifically, just if you will indulge
    me for two seconds to actually read something that is actually
    a part of the article, it says that, ``Houston police are
    required to check the warrant status of everyone who is
    ticketed, arrested, or jailed . . . ''--
        Mr. Gill. I don't think it is in order for you to be
    reading articles here.
        Mr. Van Drew. We are going to give her leeway. Don't argue.
    Just finish.
        Ms. Crockett. Because you know I'm ready to--OK. ``ICE
    officials are given full access to city jails . . . ''
        Mr. Van Drew. Without objection, without objection.
        Ms. Crockett. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Van Drew. OK. That concludes today's hearing. We thank
    our witnesses for appearing before the Committee today. Without
    objection, all Members do have five legislative days to submit
    additional written questions for the witnesses or additional
    materials for the record.
        Without objection, this hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record
    at 4:24 p.m.]

        All materials submitted for the record by Members of the
    Subcommittee on Oversight can be found at: https://
    docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=119166.

                                [all]