[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                    REEVALUATING THE RATING SCHEDULE:
                   EXAMINING VA'S EFFORT TO MODERNIZE
                          DISABILITY BENEFITS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISABILITY ASSISTANCE AND MEMORIAL AFFAIRS

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 14, 2026

                               __________


                           Serial No. 119-43

                               __________


       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs





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                    Available via http://govinfo.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

63-301                    WASHINGTON : 2026











                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISABILITY ASSISTANCE AND MEMORIAL AFFAIRS

                    MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky, Ranking 
    American Samoa                       Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
KEITH SELF, Texas                    KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.










                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 14, 2026

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Morgan Luttrell, Chairman..........................     1
The Honorable Morgan McGarvey, Ranking Member....................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Ms. Nina Tann, Executive Director, Compensation Service, Veterans 
  Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs...     4

        Accompanied by:

    Dr. Ulia Sokol, Medical Officer, Compensation Service, 
        Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of 
        Veterans Affairs

                                Panel II

Ms. Elizabeth Curda, Director, Education, Workforce, and Income 
  Security, U.S. Government Accountability Office................    14

Mr. Philip Armour, Senior Economist, Director of Ph.D. Program, 
  Professor of Policy Analysis, RAND.............................    16

Dr. Kyleanne Hunter, Chief Executive Officer, Iraq and 
  Afghanistan Veterans of America................................    18

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Ms. Nina Tann Prepared Statement.................................    37
Ms. Elizabeth Curda Prepared Statement...........................    39
Mr. Philip Armour Prepared Statement.............................    53
Dr. Kyleanne Hunter Prepared Statement...........................    63

                       Statements For The Record

Disabled American Veterans Prepared Statement....................    71
Berry Law Prepared Statement.....................................    75
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States Prepared Statement.    95










 
                    REEVALUATING THE RATING SCHEDULE:
                   EXAMINING VA'S EFFORT TO MODERNIZE
                          DISABILITY BENEFITS

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 14, 2026

   Subcommittee on Disability Assistance & 
                          Memorial Affairs,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:16 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Morgan Luttrell 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Luttrell, Radewagen, Bergman, 
Self, McGarvey, Dexter, and Morrison.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF MORGAN LUTTRELL, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Luttrell. Right. Good afternoon. Thank you for coming 
today. Everyone in the audience thank you for attending the 
committee hearing today and Disability Assistance and Memorial 
Affairs. The chair may declare recess at any time. The 
subcommittee hearing will come to order. Good afternoon. Again, 
thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
    This afternoon the subcommittee is examining the U.S. 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Schedule for Rating 
Disabilities, otherwise known as the VASRD, and the Department 
efforts modernizing this system. The VASRD is the scale that 
determines how the veteran's service-connected conditions are 
evaluated, which then determine a veteran's eligibility for 
benefits, overall disability ratings, and, ultimately, the 
amount of tax-free money they receive each month.
    While the VASRD is incredibly is incredibly overly over 
complicated, it is important to step back and know that the 
schedule affects real lives. It allows VA to deliver 
compensation to veterans for their service-connected 
disabilities and ensure all veterans are evaluated at the same 
standard.
    Congress created the VASRD with a clear purpose to 
compensate veterans for the average impairment caused by their 
service-connected disabilities to their earnings capacity. The 
rating schedule was created in 1945. While parts of it have 
been updated over time, the overall framework remains 
unchanged.
    In 2007, VA Advisory Committee on Disability Compensation 
concluded that the rating schedule was outdated and recommended 
a full review of all 15 body systems. VA formally began the 
effort in 2009, with a plan to complete this work by 2016. Ten 
years later, VA has only completed a review of 11 body systems 
out of the total 15. According to the testimony provided in a 
Senate hearing last year, VA has now extended its timeline to 
2026. Again, this is more than 10 years beyond the original 
goal.
    VA has made progress, but it is inconsistent thus far. In 
my personal opinion, the veterans of today deserve a system 
that evaluates their disabilities based on the medical evidence 
of today's medical practices. The respiratory, endocrine, 
musculoskeletal, and digestive systems have been updated in the 
past 10 years, but several important systems remain unfinished. 
The neurological, cardiovascular, and hematologic systems are 
still in various stages of review despite many of these 
conditions being common and often complex.
    Mental health remains the most concerning. VA proposed 
updates to the mental health rating criteria in 2022, but those 
changes have not been finalized. As a result, one of the most 
heavily relied upon portions of the rating schedule continues 
to operate under criteria that many believe no longer reflects 
modern clinical understanding or the full scope of functional 
impairment that veterans experience.
    Just as important, VA has not undertaken a comprehensive 
review of the economic component of the rating schedule. That 
component is supposed to connect medical findings to loss of 
earning capacity. Without updating this, the system risks 
drifting further away from its statutory purpose of benefiting 
veterans.
    This uneven modernization has real consequences on the 
veterans community and their families. When rating criteria are 
outdated, inconsistent examiners and raters are left actually 
just to fill in the gaps. That increases the likelihood that 
similar claims are handled differently. Recent U.S. Government 
Accountability Office (GAO) reporting has highlighted 
inconsistent outcomes for similar conditions, outdated medical 
and occupational criteria, and quality review processes that 
are not strong enough to catch errors before they affect 
veterans.
    VA's current quality assurance approach relies on limited 
samplings that often fail to identify broader area of twins--
trends, excuse me, and too often problems are discovered only 
after decisions have already been issued, leading to rework 
appeals and additional delays. Systems matter, standards 
matter, and today oversight obviously matters.
    I will close with this. For veterans, the disability rating 
process is not an abstract policy exercise. It is often the 
moment when they sit across from the system and ask for help, 
sometimes years after they left the military. When the process 
feels outdated, inconsistent or confusing, veterans do not lose 
confidence in a form or regulation. They lose confidence when 
they ask for help. Where will it be? Modernizing the rating 
schedule is not just about updating language or revising 
criteria. It is about trust. It is about ensuring that when a 
veteran raises their right hand and serves, a system they 
return to is worthy of that commitment.
    With that, I will yield to the ranking member.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF MORGAN MCGARVEY, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Chairman Luttrell, and good 
afternoon, everyone. Appreciate you all being here today. Mr. 
Chairman, I am grateful for you holding this hearing.
    The VA Schedule for Rating Disabilities, or VASRD, is a 
massive program. It is big in size, it is big in impact, and it 
is absolutely central to how we support our veterans. 
Everything we do on this committee starts with one simple idea, 
that when a service member raises her right hand and serves 
this country, we owe her a system that works. If she is injured 
or becomes ill because of her service, she has earned care, 
benefits, and services, full stop. The process to get those 
benefits should not be so confusing or slow that she feels lost 
before the process even begins.
    This hearing should not be about cutting those services. It 
should be about cutting red tape. Veterans should not need a 
law degree or a medical degree and a decade of patience just to 
get what they have earned by serving our country.
    We also should not be afraid of change. I, for one, think 
the VA's Schedule for Rating Disabilities is outdated. Medicine 
has changed. Diagnostics have changed. The nature of military 
service itself has changed. The injuries and illnesses our 
servicemembers face today look very different to what they did 
80 years ago. Yes, the schedule needs to be updated, but the 
goal has to be clear, and that is to modernize the system 
without harming the veterans. That is the line we cannot cross. 
That is the mission that is central to this committee.
    I have a few questions that I think we can begin to answer 
today. If we are trying to figure out whether the current 
schedule actually works, we have got a real challenge. There is 
almost no up-to-date, publicly available research on how VA's 
compensation system is performing. How do we fill that gap? 
What additional data do we need? How do we get it? How do we 
use it?
    If today's hearing is about understanding the methodology 
VA is using to update this disability rating schedule, then I 
welcome that. Across multiple administrations, VA's work on 
VASRD has been a black box. Veterans deserve transparency. 
Congress deserves transparency so that we can help our 
veterans.
    Mr. Chairman, I also want to address something that we have 
been hearing in the media a little bit, that there is a growing 
narrative that disability compensation is somehow too generous 
or that it is arbitrary and there is encouragement for veterans 
to game the system. I want full transparency. I want to know 
everything that is going on. I resent that characterization of 
our veterans. Our veterans, it is not who they are, and it is 
not what this program is.
    These benefits are not handouts. They are not freebies. 
They are a recognition of service and sacrifice. For many 
veterans, they are the only support they have when service-
connected conditions make work difficult or impossible.
    Mr. Chairman, you know better than I do about the risks 
that military service carries and that most civilians will 
never fully understand. Those risks do not end when someone 
takes off their uniform. They can follow a veteran for the rest 
of their life, and they cannot be reduced to a simple earnings 
loss formula.
    We also have to remember that health relates to the whole 
person. A diagnosis that sounds minor to you or to me might be 
a sign of something much bigger. A veteran who has cystic acne 
that is linked to Agent Orange exposure is not just dealing 
with acne. They are living with the consequence of toxic 
exposure, and that context matters.
    We also have to remember what these programs are. No matter 
how big they are or how big they get, the heart of these 
programs are our veterans, human beings. Our brothers, sisters, 
moms, dads, sons, and daughters who put on a uniform willing to 
serve us, people who deserve the dignity and care they have 
earned in exchange for that service.
    Which brings me to the last point I will raise, Mr. 
Chairman. My concern today that we only have one veteran 
service organization testifying. Veterans are not monoliths. 
They go into different branches of the service with different 
experiences at different times. Their voices should be central 
to this conversation. I hope that we can have more 
conversations with the Veterans Service Organizations (VSO) on 
this topic as we move forward. Their voices are important, the 
most important ones in this discussion.
    Mr. Chairman, I am looking forward to a productive and 
honest discussion today. I hope this is just the beginning of 
our oversight into this issue. There is a lot more work to do, 
and I yield back.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
    I would like to introduce our witnesses. Our lead witness 
from VA is Ms. Nina Tann. Ms. Tann is the executive director of 
Compensation Service at the Veterans Benefits Administration 
(VBA). Good afternoon. She is joined with Dr. Sokol, correctly 
pronounced, is a medical officer in Compensation Services at 
the Veterans Benefits Administration. Thank you both for being 
here today. I ask that you please stand. Raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Luttrell. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative. You may be seated.
    Ms. Tann, at any moment if you need to--okay. Ms. Tann, you 
are now recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

                     STATEMENT OF NINA TANN

    Ms. Tann. Good afternoon, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member 
McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to appear before you today.
    Mr. Luttrell. Ms. Tann, is your mic on?
    Ms. Tann. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Thank you.
    Ms. Tann. Good afternoon, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member 
McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss VA's efforts 
to modernize disability benefits. I am accompanied today by Dr. 
Ulia Sokol, medical officer with the Veterans Benefits 
Administration.
    For disability compensation or pension purposes, a 
veteran's disabilities are evaluated using the guidance in the 
VA Schedule for Rating Disability, or VASRD, also known as the 
rating schedule. Under the authority established by 38 U.S.C. 
1155, the VA Secretary shall adopt and apply a schedule of 
ratings of reductions in earning capacity from specific 
injuries or combination of injuries. This rating shall be 
based, as far as practicable, upon the average impairments of 
earning capacity resulting from such injuries in civil 
occupations. The Secretary shall, from time to time, readjust 
this schedule of ratings in accordance with experience.
    VA is committed to updating its disability rating criteria 
to accurately reflect medical science advancements and improved 
technology and current terminology. These updates allow VA to 
ensure its disability evaluations more accurately compensate 
veterans based on impairments and average earning ability. 
While VA has made numerous changes to the VASRD, it has not 
completed a holistic comprehensive update since 1945.
    In 2003, the Government Accountability Office, or GAO, 
deemed VA's disability program high-risk because VA had not 
systematically updated the VASRD. In response, VA developed a 
modernization plan in 2009, with the goal of comprehensively 
updating all 15 body systems of the VASRD. VA established work 
groups that included medical and VA policy Subject Matter 
Experts (SME) and used the analysis following its thorough 
review of established medical research to begin the rulemaking 
process, which involves drafting and publishing a proposed and 
final rule for each body system.
    To date, VA has completed updates on 11 of the 15 body 
systems. Any updates made to the VASRD are point forward in 
that they do not impact veterans currently service-connected 
for that particular condition or veterans who filed their 
claims prior to the implementation date of new rules. VA 
anticipates publishing the final rules for all four body 
systems in three rulemakings by the end of Fiscal Year 2026, 
which will complete the first holistic comprehensive update 
since 1945.
    In 2019, VA established the VASRD Program Management Office 
with a mission of revising the VASRD through rulemaking, body 
system by body system in staggered cycles of recurring reviews 
as well as in response to GAO's high-risk recommendations. VA 
has successfully met three of the five high-risk categories 
identified by GAO and have partially met the remaining two as 
we continue the iterative process of ensuring alignment of the 
VASRD evaluation criteria with medical, scientific, and 
technological advancements.
    The rulemaking process generally takes 2 to 5 years to 
complete, but can take longer due to the length and medical 
complexity of the VASRD proposed updates. Updates to the VASRD 
require coordination to implement required claims processing 
changes and to provide training and guidance to clinicians on 
the disability benefits questionnaires and to claims processors 
charged with correctly applying current disability evaluation 
criteria.
    Following the completion of the first holistic and 
comprehensive update to the VASRD since 1945, VA will actively 
pursue opportunities to update the VASRD. In our next phase VA 
plans to continue updating the VASRD with the evolution of 
medical science, technology, and treatment modalities. While VA 
aims to update the schedule to simplify the claims process for 
veterans and to promote a fair, objective, and efficient 
process, VA will also standardize rating terminology, 
incorporate the effects of court decisions, and address 
contemporary claims processing issues to assist claims 
processors charged with delivering fair, efficient, and timely 
benefit decisions to veterans. VA is focused on completing the 
first holistic change and anticipate starting the next phase of 
this iterative process at the end of this fiscal year.
    In closing, VA remains committed to modernizing disability 
benefits by making continuous updates to the VASRD. We thank 
the committee for your continued support of programs that serve 
the Nation's veterans and look forward to working together to 
further enhance delivery of benefits and service to veterans.
    Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. My colleague and 
I are prepared to respond to any questions that you or other 
members of the subcommittee may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Nina Tann Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Ms. Tann. The written statement of 
Ms. Tann will be entered into the record. We will now move to 
questioning.
    I am going to ask some clarification questions. By the end 
of 2026, all body systems will be complete and this program 
will be completely buttoned up?
    Ms. Tann. This first holistic comprehensive review of the 
body systems.
    Mr. Luttrell. All 15 body systems?
    Ms. Tann. All 15 body systems.
    Mr. Luttrell. By the--in the Fiscal Year 2026?
    Ms. Tann. By the end of this fiscal year.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. That is great news. Good to hear that.
    Can you explain to me, and I can appreciate the 
complexities of this, why has this taken so long? I do not want 
to have to ask you this question at the end of 2026 of why we 
have not completed it. Can you explain to me? I understand when 
we are diving into the mental health issue, and I know that is 
almost impossible to figure out. Right? Can you explain to me 
why the last three have taken so long considering--and I will 
not put 1945 in there, just from the late 2019s to now.
    Ms. Tann. Sure. We have actually been updating all along. 
We have focused in, primarily, some of the most recent updates 
have been from 2017, but we have updates all the way back to 
1994. Some of the----
    Mr. Luttrell. What is an update?
    Ms. Tann. Update is through a final rule in which we are 
using updated medical evidence, science, technology to look at 
each of the body systems, as you mentioned, and we are looking 
at each of the diagnostic criteria that goes along with it.
    Mr. Luttrell. Where are we aggregating our data from?
    Ms. Tann. We have a series of processes through our work 
groups and the development where we look at all sorts of data 
from the medical community, and Dr. Sokol can speak more 
about----
    Mr. Luttrell. Our medical community or outside the VA?
    Ms. Tann. We use a combination. We look at published 
literature. We use resources from things like all the 
American--also American Heart Association, for example. We look 
at peer-reviewed literature, all sorts of data and information.
    Mr. Luttrell. We are bringing that internal to the VA 
system? Aggregated data outside and internal to the VA is all 
aggregated internal to the VA, correct?
    Ms. Tann. When we establish a working group, we have a 
number of SMEs and clinical advisors, both in VA and outside of 
VA, and they look at current medical literature from those 
types of associations and things of that nature. They are 
bringing all of that data in. We do have clinicians, not only 
in VBA, in Compensation Service and our Medical Disability 
Examination Office (MDO) office, which you are familiar with, 
at Veterans Health Administration (VHA). Those are some of the 
sources who then look at the available data and evidence and 
they pull that into the process.
    Mr. Luttrell. Where do we currently sit with the 
advancements of Machine Learning (ML) and Artificial 
Intelligence (AI)?
    Ms. Tann. We are open to exploring how we can bring 
technology into this process. I think we have a unique 
opportunity now.
    Mr. Luttrell. We have not done that yet?
    Ms. Tann. Not in the process of VASRD modernization.
    Mr. Luttrell. Why not? The world around us is.
    Ms. Tann. Sure.
    Mr. Luttrell. You may not be able to answer that question, 
but I know somebody in your Department who I am going to call 
as soon as this hearing is over with to ask why implementation 
of AI and ML is not in this rating discussion, because it makes 
absolute sense for it to be.
    Ms. Tann. I think as our focus has been on this first 
holistic update as we move into our next iteration, that is 
something that we are absolutely welcome to explore. I think 
there is opportunity for that, sir, and I can take that back or 
as--if you----
    Mr. Luttrell. Please do. I would actually like to have an 
answer to that. It makes more sense to me now and an 
understanding of how machine learning is effectively changing 
the dynamics of how we interpret medicine. I can assure you our 
veterans will be very pleased to know that we can do this in a 
matter of milliseconds, not a matter of months and years, and 
these platforms can do that for us. Implementation is where we 
seem to be hung up.
    Not to beat up on the VA too much, but the VA can be very 
siloed at times. I think that might be a missed opportunity if 
we just continue down the kind of the railway that we are on 
with--and by all means, I know that everyone that touches this 
information is brilliant, but when you can process information 
at petaflop speeds, that is a game-changer. Thank you.
    Ranking Member.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will build on that 
point for just a second. I do not want to speak for you at all, 
but, you know, we do not want to hear something is too 
complicated, especially if that means 5 and 10 years from now 
it is really a lot more complicated because we did not do 
something today that we should be doing. I just want to build 
on that a second.
    Ms. Tann, I will start with you. As I said at the 
beginning, veterans are at the heart of every single thing we 
do. That is what this committee is about. It is about serving 
our veterans. I would like to start by asking the Department's 
process for including veteran and VSO feedback into your 
methodology.
    Ms. Tann. So----
    Mr. McGarvey. Waiting until the notice and comment period 
for proposed rules, to me that is too late. I want to know to 
what extent and through what process do you ask stakeholders 
for their input before you get into the rule drafting phase?
    Ms. Tann. We do follow the American Procedures Act (APA) 
and within that we do have limited opportunities with which we 
can have what is considered ex parte conversations so that we 
are not being unduly influenced or having more weight or access 
to more information for any group of stakeholders and others so 
that we maintain transparency. We do invite, through that 
required 60-day public comment period as--we invite anyone to 
provide input into that process. We do not actually currently 
have processes in which we are doing it because we are bound by 
those requirements of the APA.
    Mr. McGarvey. I appreciate you being clear and at the end 
there getting to the point: it does not happen. To take this 
out of government-speak, when you said there is limited 
opportunities for ex parte conversation, what that really means 
is we are not talking to veterans before you all come up with a 
rule. To me that needs to change.
    You said unduly influenced. I do not view this as undue 
influence. I think talking to the end user of this service is 
of paramount importance, particularly because this is all about 
helping our veterans and we know this. Sometimes something can 
look good on paper and then it gets into practice and it does 
not work the way you intended, even if you had the best 
intentions. Getting that feedback from our veterans is really 
important.
    I understand that Disability Compensation Advisory 
Committee exists, but their work is infrequent and it is 
increasingly sidelined by this administration. Can you commit 
to doubling down on efforts to get more veteran input into this 
process at an earlier stage?
    Ms. Tann. I will identify ways that we can do that, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. We would love that.
    As I understand it, VA is working on a new loss-earnings 
study given how old the previous one is. When do you expect to 
complete that study? Will you commit to making both the data 
supporting that study and its results public?
    Ms. Tann. We are evaluating the deliverables from that 
study. We actually had contractor support that ended at the end 
of Fiscal Year 2025. My team is actually in the process of 
evaluating that information from those studies, which was a 
test program and a proof of concept to kind of see where we go 
next from that.
    Mr. McGarvey. Can we see the data supporting the study and 
the results when it is all finished?
    Ms. Tann. I will take that back, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. Yes. I am going to press you a little bit on 
that because I think we deserve better than that and I know our 
veterans deserve better than that.
    This is not a gotcha moment. This is asking for the data 
used in conducting a study and the results that impacts our 
veterans. We want to understand how we are coming up with these 
calculations that our veterans oftentimes depend on when they 
have been injured because of their military service and what 
that means for them. It is really important for anyone to have 
that and for it to be a transparent, inclusive process so we 
know what is going on.
    We are going to keep following up with you on that. It 
needs to be more than an answer, a throwaway answer in a 
committee of we will take that back to somebody. I know our 
veterans are entitled to that information and I want to make 
sure they get it.
    As I understand it, the VA has historically provided 
updates to GAO on your ongoing work around revising VASRD. When 
was the last time VA met with them? Have you shared your 
methodology with them recently?
    Ms. Tann. We do meet with GAO regularly. The last status 
update, I cannot give you the exact date when we did that. I do 
know in Fiscal Year 2025 that is when we had the increase and 
moved to partially met for the monitoring stage of the high-
risk list criteria. We do have ongoing communications with GAO 
and others and provide status updates as required.
    Mr. McGarvey. Have you shared it with any outside 
researchers at all?
    Ms. Tann. Not to my knowledge, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. I think it would, also--this is another 
thing. I just think it is helpful to have a second set of eyes 
on this type of thing to validate the methodology, to make sure 
we are coming up with the best system to help our veterans. 
Especially these are our veterans who have been injured in 
their service or are disabled because of their service. 
Appreciate that.
    Mr. Chairman, my time is expired. I yield back.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Bergman, General, you are recognized, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I had a chance here the last 20 minutes or so just kind of 
reflect on what everybody was saying. Couple of thoughts.
    1945, my dad was just mustering out of the Navy after World 
War II. Okay. I think about his last endeavor before he passed 
some 40-some years ago, was he was a volunteer driver for the 
county VSO to get the veterans to the VA hospital over by the 
Minneapolis airport. I, you know, I think about my parents, 
what they went through in the Depression and then World War II. 
We are using the date here, 1945, in current data. Scares the 
hell out of me in some ways because it means we did not change.
    Someone said a couple of different ways, it is complicated. 
Yes. Life is tough, but it is tougher when you are not exactly, 
you know, embracing it every day. It gets more complicated. It 
is like a ball of bureaucratic string that was built over time. 
Nobody knows where it starts, where it ends. All they know is 
it is this big ball of string, and it is a reason to say no.
    Having said that, let me just ask just--and a sense of 
urgency would be extremely helpful and desired within the 
Veterans Administration, as well as everybody involved in this, 
whether it is the VSOs, the veterans, but especially the 
bureaucracy of the Veterans Administration. If it is 
complicated, it is up to those of us in charge of what we are 
doing right now to uncomplicate it as best we can. When you 
heard about AI and ML, that is a way to begin the unraveling 
and the uncomplication of it.
    To what extent do outdated portions of the VASRD--you can 
use that in a pronunciation and an acronym, VASRD?
    Ms. Tann. ``VASR-D.''
    Mr. Bergman. Yes, boy. ``Varsity,'' VASRD, huh? As opposed 
to the junior varsity? Okay, got it.
    Ms. Tann. You can say rating schedule, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. All right. To what extent does the outdated 
portions of it make it harder for the VA to consistently and 
accurately evaluate modern, complex conditions among younger 
veterans? We know, based on the nature of war, the injuries 
that were received in World War I, World War II, Korea, 
Vietnam, Desert Shield, Desert Storm, Operation Iraqi Freedom 
(OIF), Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) have changed because of 
the nature of the fight, the survivability, et cetera, et 
cetera. Are we getting rid of the outdated stuff? I mean, 
regardless of timelines, do you really think when all is said 
and done, this will really be reflective of the types of 
injuries that our veterans are receiving in conflicts today?
    Ms. Tann. Yes, sir, I do. As part of our updates, and 
again, to be clear, it is not that we have not updated since 
1945. The systemic and holistic update has not been completed, 
but we have updated body systems, diagnostic codes, and we do 
remove outdated terminology. We remove outdated testing and 
things that are not accepted in the medical and clinical 
community. We remove instances where there may be subjective 
criteria.
    I will use for an example in the proposed rule for the 
neurological body system where some nerve paralysis could be 
rated by mild, moderate, or severe. Well, that is not really 
great objective criteria then for someone to use. We are adding 
testing and objective and measurable components that help 
reflect the current disability picture, like you mentioned, of 
what our veterans are experiencing today. We add new diagnostic 
codes. We--like for mental health, for example, we are 
proposing updates that adapt to the DSM-4.
    Mr. Bergman. I mean, I know you could--okay. Is there a 
sense of urgency?
    Ms. Tann. Absolutely.
    Mr. Bergman. I guess it would be helpful if you could, you 
know, not today, but give us something that shows a sense of 
urgency, that actually shows that. We hear it, but I can be 
honest with you, I do not see it. Okay?
    Ms. Tann. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. I will just leave it at that and I will yield 
back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mrs. Radewagen, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this 
important hearing today. Thank you to the witnesses.
    Ms. Tann, what is VA's plan for future updates of the VASRD 
and what criteria is VA using to prioritize future updates?
    Ms. Tann. Thank you for that question. We are using the 
lessons learned from this first iteration and best practices. 
We are looking at ways to be more strategic in that. We do not 
just necessarily want to take a look body system by body 
system, but where we have evidence and data that supports that 
we need to take another look. Some of that may come from 
studies and things such as our earnings loss studies, if we are 
able to use that. We will use areas where we know in medical 
science that have changed and updated through technology and 
treatment modalities. We will look at the body systems.
    We will also look at individual diagnostic codes and, based 
off the available evidence, we will prioritize those remaining 
updates or the next phase of updates with all of that 
information in mind. Trying to take a much more strategic 
approach, project management focused approach to it, I think, 
because we do have this experience and lessons learned from 
this first holistic update that will be completed by the end of 
this fiscal year.
    Ms. Radewagen. Ms. Tann, does VA have a project management 
plan or other document that outlines goals, objectives, or a 
schedule for future updates? If not, is there a timeline for VA 
to develop such a plan?
    Ms. Tann. We do have a plan for the first iteration, which 
is coming to a close, as I mentioned before, and we are working 
on what that project management plan for the next iteration 
will look like so that we do have schedules, milestones, and 
things like that to measure our progress and to make sure that 
we are following good project management principles for our 
future updates.
    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, ma'am.
    Mr. Self, sir, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have just got some 
probably easy questions to answer. Why sleep apnea? Is that 
military related?
    Ms. Tann. It can be. For VA disability purposes, we look at 
disabilities that were incurred in or caused by or aggravated 
by military service. If something started during military 
service, then we have a responsibility according to the law to 
service-connect sleep apnea for any residual disability based 
upon that.
    Mr. Self. Really? Okay. How much of this, and I realize 
this is not Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN) driven, 
but how much of this is customization that is allowed amongst 
the different contractors? How much of that? We see that, I see 
that often, we allow too much customization across the VA.
    Ms. Tann. So are you referring to our Disability Benefits 
Commission?
    Mr. Self. Yes, yes, the----
    Ms. Tann. We have criteria which must be supported by 
clinical findings and medical evidence. That is one----
    Mr. Self. How much of that is customizable?
    Ms. Tann. We do cut down on areas of free text, but we do 
need the doctor's observations. We do--but we use testing, we 
use clinical criteria, and we look at the entire disability 
record and we do not rest anything on just one single piece of 
evidence.
    Mr. Self. There is a statement in here that more veterans 
are relying on disability. Is that actually true or is that--do 
we see a growth in this?
    Ms. Tann. I do not have any evidence to support that. More 
evidence--excuse me, more veterans are relying on this benefit. 
We do have veterans that are employed. Most veterans that we 
serve are actually employed in some part and gainfully employed 
in many situations.
    Mr. Self. Would you just give me, and you may have already 
covered this and you probably have, and I apologize if you 
have, give me a short dissertation on impairment disability 
versus financial inability to earn? Why that distinction and 
how is that working in all of this review that you are doing? 
This seems to me to be part of the crux of what we are asking 
here.
    Ms. Tann. Part of our evaluations, we look at occupational 
impairment and functional loss. I think when, in VA terms, when 
we look at things like TDIU, which I am sure you are familiar 
with, when we find veterans who are unemployable because of 
service-connected disabilities, if they do not meet that 
criteria otherwise, then we have benefits in store for that. 
You could very easily have a 100 percent service-connected 
disabled veteran who is able to work, For us, a disability and 
100 percent evaluation does not mean unable to work in many 
situations.
    Disability compensation does not mean that a veteran cannot 
earn wages, that they are unemployable. It means that based off 
the residual impairment, the VA finds them to be 100 percent 
disabled because of the severity of their disabilities.
    Mr. Self. Right. How are you going to apply either one of 
those really to mental health, which is a growth industry? As 
we know, mental health amongst veterans is rampant. How is that 
working with mental health? It is a little bit different than 
physical impairment.
    Ms. Tann. Certainly. I am going to ask----
    Mr. Self. How are you going to apply that?
    Ms. Tann. I am going to ask Dr. Sokol to address that 
because she has done a lot of the work in that area.
    Dr. Sokol. Good afternoon. Currently, the portion of the 
rating schedule which addresses mental disorders is in the 
final stages of its publication as a final rule. We did publish 
the proposed rule several years ago, which received 
overwhelmingly positive feedback from the veterans community, 
from clinicians. That is because we adhered to the latest 
approach to assessing the functional impairment due to mental 
disorders, which is outlined in great detail in DSM-5, which is 
the governing document for all psychiatrists and clinical 
psychologists to assess the level of functional impairment due 
to mental disorders. In this new portion of the rating 
schedule, we will be able to adequately address the level of 
functional impairment and corresponding occupationally 
significant disability. We are looking forward to publishing it 
by the end of the Fiscal Year 2026.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Real quickly, what has the toxic exposure 
law done to this examination, this review of your disability 
criteria?
    Dr. Sokol. I will ask Ms. Tann to weigh in on this 
question, please.
    Mr. Self. Just quickly. I am out of time.
    Ms. Tann. Sorry, sir. We have a process by which we look at 
toxic exposures through our military. I am sorry, it is called 
the Military Environmental Exposures Sub-Council (MEESC) for--
it escapes me right now what that group looks at, but that is a 
separate group that looks for things based off our presumptive 
conditions----
    Mr. Self. Right.
    Ms. Tann [continuing]. based off the codified requirement 
for that disease process. We look at those slightly differently 
based off exposures and what the science and evidence shows 
based off that exposure.
    Mr. Self. You have made my point, more complexity. I yield, 
Chairman.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Self.
    If we are using DSM-5, what data--can you give me, Dr. 
Sokol, can you give me kind of a timeframe of the data that we 
are currently using to define mental health for the VASR 
system, VASRD system? Let me give you a little bit more depth 
to this because----
    Dr. Sokol. Yes. Will you please----
    Mr. Luttrell. Yes, absolutely.
    Dr. Sokol [continuing]. expand a little bit on the data 
portion?
    Mr. Luttrell. Before I showed up to this wonderful place, 
my focus was in neuroscience. One thing my professors told me 
when I was in grad school is that what you are going to learn 
today will not be correct in 5 years. How were they right. It 
is not more or less a concern because research is research, but 
are we about to do an implementation of information that is 
already outdated?
    Dr. Sokol. Well, let me revisit DSM-5. DSM-5 is updated on 
average every 16 to 18 years.
    Mr. Luttrell. Great. I mean, that is a home run.
    Dr. Sokol. There is a great big committee which gathers all 
the data between the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of 
Mental Disorders (DSM) publications. The current DSM, DSM-5, 
was published in 2013, and it had introduced a lot of changes 
to the way we look at the functional impairment due to mental 
disorders.
    Mr. Luttrell. In 2013, a severe traumatic brain--there were 
three levels of traumatic brain injury in 2013: mild, medium, 
and severe.
    Dr. Sokol. Well----
    Mr. Luttrell. That is it.
    Dr. Sokol. Actually the biggest introduction was the 
multidimensional approach to the way we look at their mental 
health and mental disability. Those multidimensional approach 
means that all of us are built the same way and there are 
certain number of domains of function, such as ability to 
interact with others, cognition, self care, and so on and so 
forth. That multidimensional approach, which was introduced 
based on a great deal of data by DSM-5, is the basis of our 
review of the VASRD Rating Schedule for disability mental 
disorders portion.
    Mr. Luttrell. That will not be updated until the DSM-5 
comes out with the DSM-6 version?
    Dr. Sokol. It will be updated by the end of Fiscal Year 
2026. It is updated already. It will be published. This final 
rule----
    Mr. Luttrell. Off of the DSM-5?
    Dr. Sokol. Yes. It is based on DSM-5 multidimensional 
approach.
    Mr. Luttrell. Fifteen years ago. Somebody do the math.
    Dr. Sokol. No, it was----
    Mr. Luttrell. 2013?
    Dr. Sokol. 2013.
    Mr. Luttrell. 23 is 10 plus--that is concerning because how 
much more we know today will not be near as much as we know 
tomorrow when we are dealing with the beautiful mind that sits 
between our ears, which every single human being is different, 
which I am sure you absolutely know.
    Ms. Tann, the end of 2020, give me a--do you have a date? I 
am big on dates. The day after this thing goes out, I would 
like you and Dr. Sokol sitting in front of us and assuring us 
that we are--we got a green light and we are good to go. Do you 
have----
    Ms. Tann. We anticipate our remaining final rules to be 
published around the summer of 2026.
    Mr. Luttrell. Summer of 2026.
    Ms. Tann. Then we will have time for implementation and an 
effective date, sir, beyond that.
    Mr. Luttrell. Summer of 2026. Interesting. Okay.
    Mr. McGarvey, you good? General? Mrs. Radewagen, do you 
have a question? You are good? Mr. Self? Good to go?
    Okay. Thank you very much for your testimony today. Thank 
you. Again, thank you for everything that you are doing for our 
veterans and the Department of Veterans Affairs. I like to say 
this every single time we have a hearing. The VA is one--is a 
big machine. Everybody plays their role. Every morning that we 
wake up, every morning that you wake up, we absolutely know 
that who we are serving is our veterans, and we are here 
because of them. Thank you and have a very blessed day.
    Ms. Tann. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you for this.
    Dr. Sokol. Thank you for this opportunity.
    Mr. Luttrell. Yes, ma'am.
    Once the first panel is up, panel number two may be seated.
    Our first witness on this panel will be Ms. Elizabeth 
Curda. Ms. Curda is the director of Education, Workforce, and 
Income Security at the Government Accountability Office. Second 
witness on the panel is Mr. Philip Armour. Mr. Armour is the 
director of the RAND School of Public Policy Ph.D. program and 
a senior economist at RAND. Our third witness is Dr. Kyleanne 
Hunter. Dr. Hunter is the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Iraq 
and Afghanistan Veterans of America (IAVA). What branch?
    Dr. Hunter. Marine Corps. Best one.
    Mr. Luttrell. I feel like as a Navy guy, I should say 
something. Okay. Thank you for your service. I would like to 
welcome the witnesses to our second panel. The witnesses, I 
please ask that you stand and raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Luttrell. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative.
    Ms. Curda, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH CURDA

    Ms. Curda. Good afternoon, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking 
Member McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. I am pleased 
to discuss GAO's work on VA's efforts to update its disability 
rating schedule.
    When veterans file claims for disability compensation, VBA 
claims processors use the rating schedule to determine monthly 
compensation. VA's Disability Compensation Program provides 
billions of dollars in benefits to millions of veterans and 
their families. VA must be able to make accurate decisions 
about the amount of compensation a veteran receives as a matter 
of fairness to veterans and to ensure the program is achieving 
its intended results.
    VA has struggled to stay current with needed updates to the 
rating schedule. In 2003, we designated VA's Disability 
Compensation Program high-risk, in part because its rating 
schedule did not fully reflect advances in medicine and 
technology and changes in the labor market that have occurred 
since 1945. VA is required to base its compensation decisions 
on the average loss in civilian earnings resulting from a 
veteran's service-connected disability, but it has never 
updated this information based on data-driven analysis. My 
testimony today discusses VA's progress on updating the medical 
and earnings loss information in the rating schedule as well as 
remaining challenges.
    Medical information includes the types of disabling 
conditions that veterans may have organized into the 15 body 
systems. Earnings loss information is the average decrease in 
expected earnings caused by those disabilities. VA has taken 
positive steps to improve the process for updating medical 
information.
    In terms of progress, between 1945 and 2009, VA mainly 
focused on updating the rating schedule with new medical terms 
and criteria for determining a condition's severity. In 2009, 
VA embarked upon an ambitious effort to comprehensively update 
both medical and earnings loss information. These changes 
included establishing an office to plan and oversee these 
efforts. VA has also begun making plans for a 10-year cycle for 
updating the medical information to more systematically 
consider advances in the evaluation and treatment of medical 
conditions.
    Since 2009, VA has completed updates to the medical 
information for 11 of 15 body systems. After years of fits and 
starts, VA has also begun testing its own earnings loss 
studies. VA is testing how the Department could produce 
earnings loss data and update the rating schedule with this 
information.
    However, VA still faces challenges keeping its rating 
schedule up to date. It has yet to complete comprehensive 
revisions for four body systems. VA's attempts to revise some 
of these systems have been going on for years. In addition, 
information about how veterans' disabilities affect earnings 
loss remain a major gap. It is uncertain whether or when VA 
will complete these studies and use the information to update 
the rating schedule.
    Going back decades, VA and external studies have evaluated 
the average loss of earnings for veterans with service-
connected disabilities and suggested that not all veterans were 
being equitably compensated. For example, certain external 
studies suggested that veterans with mental health conditions 
were being undercompensated. As of today, VA has not updated 
its rating schedule with earnings loss information. 
Consequently, ratings determinations for all earnings loss 
calculations remain based on information from over eight 
decades ago.
    We have been monitoring VA's efforts to fix these problems 
through the lens of our high-risk list. As of 2025, VA has met 
three of the five criteria for removal from the list. It has 
shown leadership, commitment, developed an action plan to 
address root causes of its problems, and has been monitoring 
its progress. To have this area removed from the high-risk 
list, VA must continue to meet these three criteria and fully 
meet two more: capacity and demonstrated progress. Capacity 
involves things like identifying and applying the resources 
needed to implement its plans, and demonstrated progress means 
VA is accomplishing its goals and objectives for updating the 
rating schedule.
    Ultimately, without a rating schedule that fully reflects 
present day medicine and changes in the labor market since 
1945, VA may overcompensate some veterans while 
undercompensating others.
    This concludes my prepared statement and I am happy to 
address your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Elizabeth Curda Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Luttrell. The written statement from Ms. Curda will be 
entered into the record.
    Mr. Armour, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF PHILIP ARMOUR

    Mr. Armour. Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and 
members of the committee, thank you for your invitation to 
testify.
    As a labor economist, I research how health conditions 
impact individuals' ability to earn income and on the design of 
disability programs. Today I will focus on four points related 
to the economic effects of disability and describe implications 
for VA Disability Compensation (VADC).
    By statute, VADC benefits consider veterans' earning losses 
from service-connected disabilities, not just a medical rating 
of impairment severity. The most recently published VA 
commissioned earning loss study was in 2008. Although there 
have been more recent studies, none of these studies have 
incorporated modern disability research findings, specifically 
how different elements of disability programs can independently 
impact earnings. Evidence from other programs shows that cash 
and noncash disability benefits do directly affect earnings, 
but no research exists on how VA's programs impact today's 
veterans' earnings.
    Updated earnings loss studies that incorporate research on 
today's veterans would inform more accurate disability ratings. 
Alternatively, a move toward individualized disability 
determinations could also increase accuracy and eliminate the 
need for detailed earnings loss studies, but would require 
statutory changes.
    To zoom out, in disability studies, there is a distinction 
between impairment and disability. Physical or mental 
conditions can lead to impairment, a reduction in the 
functioning of a body system or structure which can be 
diagnosed by medical professionals. Disability, however, 
relates to how these conditions lead to limitations to societal 
participation. For many disability programs in the U.S., there 
is a focus on how impairments lead to work disability, 
specifically reduced earnings capacity. Unlike with 
impairments, evaluating work disability requires consideration 
of the economic consequences of health conditions and thus 
requires collaboration between medical and labor force experts.
    VA disability compensation is aptly named. By statute, a 
veteran with a service-connected health condition receives a 
rating that, quoting here, ``shall be based upon the average 
impairments of earning capacity resulting from such injuries in 
civil occupations.'' Given the statutory requirements, VA has 
commissioned studies to estimate how service-connected health 
conditions translate into average earnings losses. In general, 
these studies compare earnings of veterans with service-
connected ratings with earnings of otherwise similar 
nonveterans or veterans without ratings. There are two issues 
facing the state of VA earnings loss studies.
    First, to be relevant, earnings loss studies need to 
reflect the current employment environment. However, the last 
published study relied on data from at least 20 years ago. 
Since then, there have been substantial changes in medical 
treatments, veteran disability evaluation, and the labor 
market, such as, for example, substantial increases in remote 
work.
    Furthermore, a rated health condition is rated because of 
its impact on earnings capacity, but the rating then 
facilitates access to VADC benefits and additional VA programs. 
How participation in VA programs affects the earnings of 
veterans is largely unknown. Yet, since the publication of the 
last earnings loss study, research on the causal impacts of 
other disability programs has proliferated. Specifically, there 
is now strong evidence on how the benefits in those programs 
have direct effects on earnings.
    For example, recent evidence indicates that low cost-
sharing healthcare access and targeted vocational 
rehabilitation benefits similar to benefits offered by the VA 
can facilitate return to work and higher earnings. Not 
accounting for these program-induced earnings increases would 
make average earnings losses appear less severe, but only due 
to the success of the programs.
    Other programs are different than VAs and serve different 
populations, and the field of disability research also tells us 
the program details matter and that different populations 
respond differently. These other findings are suggestive of 
potential VA effects, but are not conclusive.
    Because we do not have a clear understanding of the 
relationship among VADC, other VA programs, and veterans' 
earnings, we have limited ability to evaluate these programs' 
effectiveness and thus limited ability to estimate earnings 
losses from service-connected work disability.
    Other disability programs also offer potential alternatives 
to the average earnings loss approach. The VADC statute 
reflects a concept known as disability-based average justice, 
or the notion that individuals with similar levels of 
disability should receive the same rating and the same 
compensation. Most other disability systems take an individual 
justice approach to at least disability determination, where an 
applicant's disability is rated based on the impacts of their 
health condition on their own earnings capacity, not on the 
average work disability.
    Regardless of the conceptual framework, recent research 
from Social Security and Workers' Compensation programs can 
provide insight into how the impact of VA programs on earnings 
could be incorporated into the current average justice 
framework or on how VADC could implement an individual justice 
framework. Yet these other programs serve distinct populations, 
so additional research with and insights from today's veterans 
are essential to ensure an accurately implemented VADC program.
    Thank you for your time and I look forward to your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Philip Armour Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Luttrell. The written statement for Mr. Armour will be 
entered into the hearing record.
    Dr. Hunter, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF KYLEANNE HUNTER

    Dr. Hunter. Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today. Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America is 
dedicated to improving the lives of post 9-11 veterans and it 
is an honor to speak on their behalf today.
    It is also concerning that at today's hearing there is only 
one veteran organization represented. This despite the fact 
that veterans who engage with the VASRD are not a monolith and 
there are several voices not in this room, including those that 
have directly worked with veterans to navigate the benefit 
process, and I hope in future conversations we can include more 
veteran voices. Modernization should be done with us, not 
merely on our behalf.
    Veterans Affairs is currently undertaking a process of 
modernizing the VASRD, attempting to reflect both the realities 
of injuries experienced by servicemembers and advancement in 
medical science. The modern veteran population faces conditions 
and occupational realities that were not examined in many of 
the previous efforts. For example, traumatic brain injuries, 
toxic exposure, military sexual trauma, and complex mental 
health disorders are central to the post 9-11 veteran 
experience and have a significant impact on veteran quality of 
life and long-term employment outcomes.
    Current modernization efforts to be undertaken by the VA 
include earning-loss studies to incorporate data on how 
service-connected conditions affect veterans' earning capacity 
and to align compensation with functional impairment and labor 
market realities. However, there remains virtually no 
transparency into how these studies are being conducted and 
whether or not they truly reflect the complete reality of the 
veteran experience.
    Earnings loss studies may provide us useful data, but are 
in an incomplete lens to view the problem. For example, the 
Congressional Budget Office study on disability compensation 
focused only on male veterans, despite the fact that when this 
study was conducted, women made up the fastest growing group of 
veterans. We do have significant evidence to show that women 
veterans, even when fully employed, have different earnings 
than their male peers. As a representative of the generation 
that has seen the largest increase in women's service, this 
shows why it is critical that veteran voices are included at 
the table to ensure fulsome and essential studies.
    While the VASRD shares some similarities to other 
disability compensation programs, there are fundamental 
differences between veteran and civilian populations. Military 
service impacts the human body physically and mentally in ways 
that few civilian occupations ever will. From high physical 
risk occupations to repeated exposures to toxic substances, to 
increased risks for interpersonal harmful behaviors, and to 
having little control over where one lives, military service 
comes with inherent health risks. VASRD is one way that the 
country recognizes and compensates the individuals who 
volunteered and accepted these risks on behalf of the American 
people.
    This system also exists in a unique legal framework shaped 
by the Ferris Doctrine, which prevents servicemembers from 
suing the Federal Government for injuries incurred during 
military services. Because veterans cannot legally seek tort 
damages for pain and suffering or loss of quality of life, 
disability compensation often also serves as not just income 
replacement, but redress for harms incurred while choosing to 
serve one's country.
    Many service-connected conditions, such as chronic pain, 
migraines, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), sleep 
disorders, may not immediately remove a veteran from the 
workforce, but still impose real lifelong impairments that 
merit compensation. Veterans service organizations for decades 
have been advocating to include lagging quality of life 
indicators in disability compensation calculations and that 
total compensation should look not just at the ability of 
veterans to be employed, but the compound and long-term medical 
impacts of service-connected illnesses and injuries. New 
research is also showing that quality of life indicators may be 
uniquely impactful to veterans and may exacerbate existing 
employment challenges.
    VASRD as a program is also not just an investment in those 
that served, but an investment in our long-term national 
security. Veteran care after service is still a strong 
recruitment tool for military service, which requires the 
public trust. Veterans' participation in the modernization 
process will increase the confidence that these reforms are 
justified, fair, and aligned with modern veterans needs. It 
maintains the buy-in of one of the country's best recruiting 
assets: those of us who have already served.
    Like many other veterans organizations, IAVA stands ready 
to support the VA in these modernization efforts and our 
members are eager to engage. In our most recent polity priority 
survey, over 50 percent of IAVA members cited modernizing the 
process as their top area that they would like to be involved 
in. Additionally, of our members that have a disability raising 
over 65 percent report that their disability payments are 
essential to their overall financial well being.
    Thank you for your commitment to America's veterans and I 
look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kyleanne Hunter Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Luttrell. The written statement of Dr. Hunter will be 
entered into the hearing record. Well said, Dr. Hunter.
    All right. Mr. Armour, I was trying to pick your opening 
statement apart as best I could, but what I took from it is I 
think we are in trouble. Now I am going to ask you to talk to 
me. I consider myself a highly educated guy, but if you would 
not mind putting it in crayon for me. What you just said is do 
we have the capability to get there from here with compensation 
levels through this rating system? It did not sound like it. 
You were doing a comparative analysis to the civilian 
population and the veteran population, and Dr. Hunter most 
eloquently defined both, which, again, good job. Can we do this 
or is this an uphill battle that we will constantly have VA in 
front of us saying it will be next year?
    Mr. Armour. I can speak for the analytic question.
    Mr. Luttrell. I am going to beat on you. You got a Ph.D. 
That means you are way smarter than me.
    Mr. Armour. We can do the earnings loss. We can do modern 
earnings loss studies. That is right. I think transparency 
about the methods that are used in it, pretty much all the 
methods used so far from the work cited in my testimony and the 
other panelists, it is outdated or it is using estimation 
techniques that are just not actually getting action.
    Mr. Luttrell. It will always be outdated.
    Mr. Armour. Not always 20 years outdated.
    Mr. Luttrell. We have to land somewhere, this panel right 
here and subcommittee, the full committee, all the way to where 
it needs to go. It will always be outdated. Where is the 
landing zone for us? We are going to have this conversation 
with VA and the fact that the other veteran organizations--Dr. 
Hunter, as you stated, this is an--anyone is welcome to sit in 
front of this committee at any time. I welcome it. We welcome 
that.
    Mr. Armour. We have done these, this kind of research for 
other programs. They do differ in these ways, but modern 
techniques can do it and they can do it relatively quickly in 
terms of, you know, months and years instead of decades.
    Mr. Luttrell. Define ``relatively quickly'' for the Federal 
Government.
    Mr. Armour. Months and years instead of decades.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Dr. Curda, is the VA in a position to 
get this thing completed and pushed across the finish line in 
summer of 2026, in your personal opinion?
    Ms. Curda. I cannot tell you that they will be done in 
2026. We----
    Mr. Luttrell. From the information that you have gathered 
and the research that you have done, what are we looking at?
    Ms. Curda. They are in the final stages.
    Mr. Luttrell. Final stage. Man, I tell you what, you would 
be surprised how many people are in final stages in the U.S. 
Government. I mean, we are like there.
    Ms. Curda. That is what I--that is all I know.
    Mr. Luttrell. I mean, the electronic healthcare record has 
been in the final stages for the past 10 years and we are about 
50 billion into it and it is still not done. Matter of fact, we 
are shutting it down.
    Ms. Curda. Yes. Meaning they are just before the Office of 
Management and Budget (OMB) phase, I guess----
    Mr. Luttrell. Right.
    Ms. Curda [continuing]. with the final rule. It is possible 
that they can be done this year and we are hopeful. We would 
love them to be done this year. I cannot be sure they will. We 
have not seen an update on their progress since June of last 
year, and we have not had a substantive update on their action 
plans since August 2024.
    Mr. Luttrell. I would be interested to know how, once the 
15 body systems rescheduling is complete and we have the 15 
body systems that we consider, okay, how do we continue to 
update that at a pace that stays relevant to science and 
medicine? Mr. Armour, you got something for that? You are a 
doctor, are you not?
    Mr. Armour. Ph.D. Again, I think we can do these analyses 
much faster. We have the capacity.
    Mr. Luttrell. Can I will tell you what?
    Mr. Armour. That access is the biggest issue, I think, 
right now.
    Mr. Luttrell. Analysis to application is the death of this 
place. You know how--looking around at the walls, everybody 
wants to write about something. We have to touch human bodies. 
I mean, I am so sick and tired of that. I am not beating up on 
you. I am talking out loud for the world to hear this.
    How do we stay relevant in your personal and professional 
opinion once this thing goes nuclear? Is that a possibility or, 
Ms. Curda, are we going to be having this conversation 5 years 
from now that we are still using the DSM-5 and the information 
that we have on traumatic brain injuries date from 2013? I am 
sure Dr. Dexter is going to clack off on this one in a hurry 
when it is her turn.
    Ms. Curda. Yes, I am not a medical doctor either. I think 
it is possible for VA to stay up to date and I think they need 
to stay up to date, but they will have to continue to have 
really rigorous and realistic planning. They need to address 
some of the root causes of the issues. For example, the 
internal review process. I took a look at all the stakeholders 
internally to VA and there is something like 18 different--8 
parts of VA that have to look at the draft rule and 16, 
according to them, 16 levels of review. Then once you are done 
with that, there is external parties, there is something like 
11 external parties that they review it.
    Mr. Luttrell. I mean, the complexities are mind-numbing, 
but it is so important for us to figure this out, us, we, the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, figure this out because it is 
the veterans that are feeling the pressures.
    Mr. McGarvey, you are recognized, sir.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I am just going to pick 
up on what you were just saying, Dr. Armour. I used to work 
with a lawyer who would say, had an old expression, he said, 
you can get it fast, good, and cheap. Pick any two of three. 
Right. What is the best and fastest way we keep up to date?
    Mr. Armour. I think it is facilitating access to data for 
researchers. There is a paper that Dr. Hunter cited forthcoming 
by David Silver and Jonathan Zhang, looking at the impacts of 
ratings for mental conditions on quality of life outcomes and 
on healthcare utilization. That was--it is a phenomenal 
project. I think that represents the current state of what 
research can do in this field. It is entirely limited to 
outcomes that the Veterans Health Administration has access to.
    Mr. McGarvey. Where is the lag in data coming from?
    Mr. Armour. I cannot speak to specifically the internals of 
that study. I think, in general, getting linkages between VBA 
and VHA to occur is pretty much impossible to have happen, let 
alone the other aspect of this, which is the earnings loss 
studies. Those data generally need to come from the Social 
Security Administration, which has--they will not export 
individual data, but will allow for some Memorandum of 
Understandings (MOU) to understand it. Setting those up, 
facilitating that, that enables research to be done, the good 
research, and--yes.
    Ms. Curda. Can I comment on--just comment on that?
    Mr. McGarvey. Yes.
    Ms. Curda. VA actually has in place agreements now with the 
Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue Service 
(IRS) and some other entities to do that kind of data exchange. 
They have made progress in that area. I just wanted to point 
that out.
    Mr. McGarvey. It sounds like we still need to have some 
progress in that area. One thing we need you all is help on and 
I can tell you on this committee, we are not going to accept 
the idea that we cannot do this because I think we can.
    Dr. Hunter, do you want to say something?
    Dr. Hunter. Yes. I will just add to the conversation and I 
will disclose Phil and I were colleagues until just a little 
while ago here. There is also a big issue in the transparency 
of these studies being done. We hear a lot that VA is making 
these--like having these MOUs, doing all of these data, but 
they are doing it in a black box, which does not allow for 
either organizations like RAND and other Federally Funded 
Research and Development Centers (FFRDC) to actually do 
reproduction surveys or you do the data or do the studies 
faster, often through tools, or for VSOs to validate and 
understand. Like are you actually representative of this 
hierarchy of the population? We end up with studies like the 
U.S. Congressional Budget Office (CBO) does that excludes the 
fastest growing part of our population. Data transparency 
coming out of the VA is one of the biggest blockers to being 
able to do these fast and accurately.
    Mr. McGarvey. That should be something we should be able to 
help fix a little bit, I would think, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Hunter, I am going to go over to you. Thank you for 
your service. Appreciate that. I want to get away from--we have 
been out of government-speak now for a solid 3 minutes. I hope 
we can stay in this zone. I am just going to ask you point 
blank, do you think the VA disability is overly generous right 
now?
    Dr. Hunter. No.
    Mr. McGarvey. Have you spoken with anybody who does?
    Dr. Hunter. No.
    Mr. McGarvey. Okay, good. What would you say to someone who 
thinks that veterans who receive VA disability are somehow 
taking advantage of taxpayers, they are scamming the system?
    Dr. Hunter. I would first say that when you raise your 
right hand to serve, you make a contract with the United 
States, and that is that we put our lives on the line 24/7, and 
as a result, we are to be taken care of for the time when we 
are done.
    Mr. McGarvey. I think that contract you make when you raise 
your right hand and give yourself to service is both a legal 
and a moral obligation that we have as a country.
    I want to ask you about the statutory mandate for the basis 
of disability ratings. The law says, quote, ``The rating shall 
be based upon the average impairments of earning capacity 
resulting from such injuries in civil occupations,'' which is 
wonderful statutory language to say you get injured in the 
service. We are going to look at your disability rating based 
off a civilian counterpart. It is that ``civil occupations'' 
part that concerns me because military occupations do not 
always line up with civilian occupations.
    You yourself, Dr. Hunter, you were an attack pilot on a 
helicopter. I am not sure there is a civilian equivalent for 
that type of job.
    Dr. Hunter. I have not found it. I was looking for it for a 
long time. I have not found it.
    Mr. McGarvey. I do not think it is there. You know, and 
whether it is a Navy SEAL, whether it is an artillery crewman, 
we are going to have trouble lining this up.
    Dr. Hunter, how do you compare injuries and illnesses that 
happen in military service with civilians?
    Dr. Hunter. They are not comparable. The military service, 
as I stated, there are physical risks that are unique. There 
are mental and psychological risks that are unique. There are 
environmental risks that are unique. One of the biggest areas 
of sort of divergence between the civilian and military 
occupations is that military servicemembers have very little to 
no control over where they spend their time, what environmental 
factors might be around them, what they are exposed to, the 
types of injuries they may receive.
    A lot of the research that is done on the civilian side 
also include some opt in, right, some buy in to whatever career 
path they choose to be in in terms of how those calculations 
are done. The military, that is also removed, which goes back 
to some of this contract, that there is a volunteer to do 
whatever the country asks of you to do. Both the type of 
injuries and the environment in which those injuries might take 
place are divergent in medical aspects as well as the moral 
contract that we have made with the country.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you very much. I do think that how, 
when, and where the injuries occur are often important in 
military service, just as the injury itself.
    Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. I yield back.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, sir.
    General Bergman, sir, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is really 
fascinating to sit here and listen to the discussion back and 
forth because I sense everybody here is--no matter what role 
you are playing, even if you are sitting out there in a crowd, 
we are all here for the betterment for veterans outcomes, which 
is a good thing. Not necessarily in Washington, DC, can that be 
said in every hearing room. I will just leave that for a 
discussion of a different time.
    I would like--and this is a generic--it is not a generic 
question. It is a specific question for any of you to respond 
to. To what extent do silos currently exist that inhibit the 
breakthrough results and the speed at which we need--the change 
that we know needs to occur occurs? Would anyone like to 
address the--however you want to address silos?
    Ms. Curda. Yes, there are silos that exist that prevent the 
speed of things getting done.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. In that case, so we agree that there are 
silos. I think that is not a surprise. Is the level of 
understanding that those silos exist, let us say within the 
Veterans Administration, to acknowledge they exist and then 
deal with the fact that do they need to exist? Do we need--is 
it additive in a positive way for the outcomes? Sometimes we 
have to work to get things done. If we work too long in a silo, 
we do not share the information.
    As the Veterans Administration looks at their 
reorganization of the business, which was just announced, you 
know, in the last month or so, do you believe that a part of 
being able to speed up the process here toward positive 
results, it would be a positive effect to, however it is done, 
break down, rewicker, whatever you want to call the silos?
    Dr. Hunter. Sir, I will answer that one and I will answer 
it both from now as a CEO of a veteran organization and someone 
who was a public policy researcher before coming into this 
role. Absolutely, and particularly breaking down the silo 
between the VA and veterans in this research.
    One of the things I learned very early on doing public 
policy research is that numbers are all great and fine in the 
spreadsheet, but the rubber meets the road when you engage the 
population that whatever you are researching is going to be 
impacting. Breaking down that silo, A, it will allow 
information to get to the VA faster about the reality of what 
is happening to veterans rather than waiting 10 years of the 
study. Talk to us, ask us. We can tell you that very quickly, 
as well as allow for a more, you know, robust and rapid 
updating of the system to meet the realities.
    We talk a lot and we hear in the news all the time that 
warfare and the type of, like, modern warfare is expanding at 
this exponential rate. We have--whether it is advancements in 
technologies or the change in the type of enemies that we have, 
and if the VA remains siloed and cutoff, doing their research 
and not interacting with those who most recently served, there 
is always going to be this lag. We are always going to be 
playing catch-up and saying, oh, yes, well, next time we will 
deal with this injury. Next time we will look into this body 
system. Next time we will figure this out.
    From where we sit, absolutely, we are here and ready and 
want to break down those silos and work to ensure that our 
veterans are taken care of.
    Mr. Bergman. Anybody else want to comment? Okay, that is 
all right. Silence is you do not want to comment.
    Okay. Along with the silos, what can we do, from your 
perspective, as a committee to advance the decrease--or, excuse 
me, the increase in transparency? Once you have got the silos 
broken down, how do you set the environment where now if you 
are working on this project--we are all working, you know, but 
there is that transparency of data exchange? Any thoughts?
    Ms. Curda. Well, I think certainly hearings like this are a 
great way to make situations at VA more transparent and having 
testimony. I think, encouraging the agency to be forthcoming 
and transparent with information with GAO, for example. We have 
had a good dialog with them in the past number of years as we 
have been monitoring their progress on the high-risk issue. 
Sometimes the information has to go through extensive levels of 
clearance and takes a lot of time to get to us. We just would 
prefer to have a more give-and-take kind of relationship on 
these things because we think that would help give us an 
opportunity to respond to them sooner and it may help things--
keep things from going off track.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay, thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you. I see I am over my time. I yield 
back.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, General. Dr. Morrison, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you and 
the ranking member for holding this hearing today. I want to 
thank our witnesses for being here to testify, too.
    I am also glad there is bipartisan agreement that the VA 
Schedule for Rating Disability should be modernized and it is 
essential that we get this right. We need to require 
transparency from VA and a process that incorporates feedback 
from medical experts, economists, and, of course, the veterans 
themselves.
    My late father-in-law was an Army Ranger and received 
disability compensation for the injuries he sustained in 
combat. We know that so much has changed since veterans like my 
father-in-law served, both in terms of the nature of military 
service as well as significant advances in medical research and 
treatment. We know more than ever we have the--we know more 
about the effects of military service on veterans' physical and 
mental health. It is critical that we put this data as well as 
veterans' experience to use as we tackle this important issue.
    Dr. Hunter, I want to begin with you. As you noted, women 
are the fastest growing group of veterans. According to VA, 
women made up about 4 percent of the veteran population in 
2000. By 2040, VA expects that number to increase to 18 
percent. What should VA be doing to incorporate data that 
accurately accounts for the increasing population of women 
veterans?
    Dr. Hunter. When we look at women veterans, and 
particularly for this topic in particular, there are two areas 
that need to be done. One is ensuring that when we are looking 
at the actual impacts of certain injuries, illnesses, and 
exposures, that women are part of the clinical studies to 
understand what the impairments actually are. There is a long 
history of medical research excluding women and so we are 
basing women's conditions off of what men have experienced. We 
know that women are not just little men in this regard. 
Actually doing the clinical studies to understand the impact on 
women is essential.
    When we are looking at earnings loss statements as well, 
women need to be considered in the workforce aspect of this. 
You know, we look at a lot of conditions that may, you know, 
triple or almost quadruple impact women if we look at things 
like reproductive healthcare issues that are connected to 
service-related conditions and what that does to workforce 
engagement. We also have a whole like a host of new issues 
since women have been involved in ground combat of the 
musculoskeletal systems that have not been studied. We cannot 
make accurate determinations without knowing that. Which is 
why, again, the veteran community stands here willing and 
wanting to be involved.
    Ms. Morrison. I appreciate that and thank you for bringing 
reproductive healthcare and its impacts into it. As an 
Obstetrics and Gynecologist (OB/GYN) myself, I think that is 
critically important.
    Dr. Hunter, in your testimony you mentioned that post 9-11 
veterans are more likely than previous generations to endure 
exposure experiences that contribute to diagnosed mental health 
disorders, both from the psychological and physiological 
perspective. Traumatic brain injury, toxic exposure, and 
military sexual trauma are all factors that have to be 
considered to meet the needs of the modern day veteran 
population. As we continue to learn more about these various 
forms of trauma--how these various forms of trauma affect a 
veteran's quality of life and economic prospects, what role do 
veteran service organizations have to play in ensuring the 
needs of the veteran are reflected in any proposed changes to 
the rating schedule?
    Dr. Hunter. Thank you so much for bringing up the mental 
health side of this, too. I think VSOs have three or four big 
areas that we play.
    One is we are the frontline touch points with veterans. As 
IAVA, we conduct multiple surveys a year to understand the 
experiences in closer to real time than any of these VA studies 
can be done. If we want to know how this is impacting people, 
we can tell you. We actually have that data. When we talk about 
data sharing and transparency, we can get it to you in a much 
faster way.
    Additionally, one of the big parts of this is that VSOs 
engage with veterans who may not be in the VA system. When VA 
is doing their studies, they have a huge bias that we have not 
even talked about, the fact that when they are looking at 
outcomes, they are looking most often at people who are already 
part of the VHA system. Part of what we want to do is catch 
that wherever it is, between 20 and 50 percent, depending on 
what study you read, of veterans who are outside of the system. 
We are the conduit to those people. We are the conduit to the 
people that is actually the hardest to get the data on, which 
is important.
    Then third, we are a trusted agent. There has been 
historic--through all of the scandals and all of the reporting, 
the VA has been all over the place in how much the veteran 
community actually trusts them. VSOs are often more trusted 
organizations, and we can serve a role in helping the VA build 
that trust back in the veteran population through collaborative 
work.
    Ms. Morrison. Thank you so much. Many more questions, but I 
see my time has expired. One more? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mrs. Radewagen.
    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the 
witnesses for appearing today.
    Ms. Curda, does GAO believe that VA is still treating this 
rating schedule updating, overhaul as a project instead of a 
program?
    Ms. Curda. I am not sure I understood your question.
    Ms. Radewagen. Does GAO believe that VA is still treating 
this rating schedule updating, overhaul as a project instead of 
a program?
    Ms. Curda. No, they have--they are treating it like a 
program. They have a program office which they have 
established. They have staffed it mostly. Those staff have 
been, you know, developing, promulgating the regulations to 
provide the medical updates. They have also been working on the 
earnings loss studies.
    Ms. Radewagen. How does the schedule influence the claims 
processing workload? Do you believe that the lack of updates is 
causing issues within VBA when it comes to claims processing?
    Ms. Curda. No, I do not think it really affects the claims 
processing. You know, down the road, if they change the 
regulations, it will have an impact. They will have to make 
updates to a lot of the training and all the inputs that go 
into the process so that it is up to date and in line with the 
regulations.
    I think the impact is more along the lines of the equity 
issues we have been discussing today, where outdated 
information might lead some veterans to be overcompensated and 
others to be undercompensated. I mean, if you are just strictly 
on an earnings loss basis.
    Ms. Radewagen. Yes. Mr. Armour, when researchers evaluate 
the impact of veterans' benefits, what challenges exist in 
isolating the effects of a single benefit when many veterans 
are accessing multiple programs at the same time?
    Mr. Armour. There is a lot of challenges with that. That is 
actually a fundamental concern here, is that we do not have a 
sense of why some veterans access certain programs at different 
times and thus the impacts that those program--participation in 
those programs has. It is very difficult to tease apart for 
these earnings losses. You know, was it vocational 
rehabilitation, the Veterans Readiness and Employment (VR&E) 
services that went into it? Was it kind of the access to VA 
healthcare being priority group 1 through 3 that had an impact 
or is it just fundamentally the health condition itself 
improved? These are all things that are from the data alone are 
quite challenging because we just do not have an evidence base 
on the impacts of these programs or also like how benefits 
themselves sort into using them. Yes, so I guess I would leave 
it at that.
    Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the 
balance of my time.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, ma'am.
    Dr. Dexter, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Dexter. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you both, our 
ranking member as well as you, for your leadership in this. I 
think this is a really important topic and I am grateful for 
this today. I appreciate the committee being engaged and 
bipartisan as well. This is unique in Congress to have folks 
who are aligned, so thanks. To our witnesses, thank you, also, 
for your service as well as being here today.
    As a physician, I strongly believe that disability rating 
schedules must be data-driven, medically sound, comprehensive, 
and centered on veterans' lived experiences, so certainly need 
to include women in those studies as well as many other 
conditions. I will just share, as a medical student and then as 
a medical resident in the early 2000's, 30 years after the 
Vietnam War, I cared for patients in the VA system with complex 
and poorly understood symptoms. Over time, research made clear 
that many of these conditions were linked to Agent Orange 
exposure, something that many of the veterans expressed 
suspicion of, but felt very, we will say, gaslit these days. We 
were not saying that then, but not trusted. The frustration, 
the betrayal, the despair I saw so many veterans experience 
left an impression. It also showed how long it can take for 
science to catch up to exposure impacts and why ongoing 
monitoring and research are essential.
    As a pulmonologist, the lungs in particular are uniquely 
vulnerable. They are the only organ continuously exposed to the 
outside world without any protective barrier unless we put 
something on. Toxic exposures are constantly evolving, as we 
know on this committee, which means our understanding of their 
long-term health impacts must evolve as well.
    First for Mr. Armour, you noted--or Dr. Armour, sorry, you 
noted that the last VA Commission's RAND studies were conducted 
more than 20 years ago before much of our current understanding 
of toxic exposure, PTSD, and traumatic brain injury were 
available. From your perspective, what are the most important 
next steps to ensure veterans are benefiting from the most up-
to-date science when disability rating schedules are reviewed 
and updated?
    Mr. Armour. I mean, just updating those earnings loss 
studies and in particular like bringing in the issues that we 
have observed from other disability programs to address, like 
those modern techniques.
    Ms. Dexter. Just to follow up on that, that is sufficient, 
you think, for the science to catch up as well?
    Mr. Armour. I will speak as an economist on what the 
economic angle would be.
    Ms. Dexter. Okay.
    Mr. Armour. I think that would check that box, but I am not 
a physician.
    Ms. Dexter. No, of course. Obviously, it is an unfair 
question for many of you. I will just state that we need to 
have ongoing evaluation and iterative evaluation of our medical 
information in the same way that I hear you arguing for 
economic information.
    The second question, I am proud that my bipartisan bill to 
strengthen the Veterans Readiness and Employment Program, the 
VR&E Act, with a lot of support from people here passed both 
the House and Senate, and I am continuing to work to better 
support VR&E counselors. Mr. Armour, can you speak to the role 
of rigorous research in evaluating and strengthening VR&E and 
what this program can tell us about earnings losses associated 
with service-connected disabilities?
    Mr. Armour. I can tell you I think there is tremendous 
potential to learn those things. I think the current state of 
research on it is such that it is very difficult to identify 
the causal impact of those services. There are--the VR&E 
longitudinal study is one sort of study that has been going on 
for a stretch of time. Again, it is sort of a study that does 
not use modern methods in comparing people who did get services 
versus those who did not and the subsequent outcomes.
    I think that there are ways in which we could--there is a 
lot of potential to find out for whom it is working and what 
those impacts are. We just do not have that evidence base right 
now.
    Ms. Dexter. Very good. Not good, but obviously you have 
expressed the need for implementing change to how we collect 
data.
    Dr. Hunter, disability rating decisions must be grounded in 
sound medical evidence. Proposals to lower disability ratings 
based on whether a condition is treated raise serious concerns 
for me. Take obstructive sleep apnea as an example. When 
untreated, it can worsen hypertension, heart failure, and 
significantly increase risk of heart attack and stroke. Trying 
to lower ratings to treatment could discourage veterans from 
seeking care, which puts their health at risk and may 
ultimately cost more for the VA as well as cost of productive 
life here for those veterans. Dr. Hunter, from a veteran's 
perspective, can you speak to the concerns around lowering 
disability ratings based on treatment status?
    Dr. Hunter. In addition to what you mentioned about it 
potentially discouraging veterans from getting care, there is 
also the very real thing that we need to look at about 
treatment for veterans who may not live close to VA symptoms. 
Like, I am out in the West, as are you, and for me, I get all 
of my care at the VA and I often have to travel 3-1/2 to 5 
hours, depending on the weather conditions, to get some 
specialized care. If we say, well, you are getting care, you 
are not getting compensation, the other thing that we have to 
look at is how does that remove people from the workplace? What 
is the added stress and time and, you know, hardship that is 
put on it, on an individual? Which is something that needs to 
be looked at as the total overall compensation. We do not want 
to say we are correcting one issue and making a bigger problem, 
which is why these updated studies need to be done.
    Additionally, what it does not take into effect is the 
long-term impact in quality of life issues that arise. Even if 
a condition is considered treated, there still is often a 
lagging quality of defect of life indicator. I actually 
encourage the committee to encourage the VA to look at studies 
coming out of Australia and Canada and Israel where they 
actually include like verified quality of life measures into 
their veterans' disability compensation programs that have had 
results of actually improving workplace outcomes through 
addressing the fact that there were initial quality of life 
concerns. Just through the redress payments from those, you end 
up having much better long-term economic outcomes as well.
    Ms. Dexter. Thank you. I appreciate your patience.
    Mr. Luttrell. Yes, ma'am.
    Mr. Self, you are recognized for 5 minutes, sir.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Curda, I was very curious that the management of 
disability compensation claims has been on your high-risk list 
since 2003. Yet you said that August of 2024, January, 
February, and June of 2025, you got a lot of input. Can you 
estimate how much of the advances they have made happened since 
August of 2024? Just a rough estimate.
    Ms. Curda. That I cannot tell you much. I would say it is 
not true that is the first time we have heard from them. We 
actually have been talking to them pretty frequently since 
about 2019, but we saw progress more in more recent years.
    It took a while. We went through a process of deciding, 
okay, what are the root causes of these issues? VA came up with 
root causes. They developed an action plan to address those 
root causes. The first version was more like a list of stuff we 
have done. It was not a plan. Then they had to go back to the 
drawing board and come up with a plan that had milestones and 
goals and, you know, ended up being something we were--we 
thought was an actionable plan and they had something they 
could monitor their progress against. It just--it is been a 
multiyear effort and it has not all been since 2024.
    Mr. Self. Well, I would ask you what can Congress do to 
help GAO? Not just in VA, but across the government, you have 
hundreds and hundreds of reports that have not been acted on by 
many of the departments. I think Congress ought to be looking 
at GAO, how we help you to get things implemented.
    Now, let us go back to your five criteria for removing them 
from the GAO high-risk list. They have met leadership 
commitment, action plan, and monitoring, less so in capacity, 
which is basically resources. It is not capacity, it is 
resources, and demonstrated progress. We have got a saying in 
Texas, when you look at the three that they have met, they are 
still fixing to do something.
    Ms. Curda. Yes.
    Mr. Self. They have not done--I mean, logistics is 
everything. If they have not provided the resources for the 
capacity to do it, then they are not going to demonstrate 
progress. I think this is very telling chart that you have 
given us, that they really need to do something now that they 
have made the commitment, apparently.
    Then, Dr. Armour, you talked about individual versus 
average justice. You spent a lot of time on that with the 
Social Security. Now, Social Security Administration supposedly 
has outdated computers, old coding, and yet you basically said 
that the Social Security Administration does a far better job 
individualizing plans. Can you kind of talk to that?
    Mr. Armour. I will say historically, Social Security has 
been very welcoming to the research community in allowing us to 
conduct research on how the disability determination process 
works and at sort of which stage. They do contract with--they 
contract with states to actually administer the first stage of 
it. For each kind of level of that. They have shared a lot of 
their earnings data, their benefit data, and we have provided 
over the years a lot of strong results on kind of the--every 
stage of their determination process, sort of how it works. 
That has allowed them to make various policy decisions to 
provide that feedback back to that determination process. They 
have also engaged in a lot of National Academies of Science, 
Engineering, and Medicine panels to update their own listings.
    Mr. Self. Well, that is not really my question because you 
get a very individualized plan from Social Security 
Administration. These are your earnings, this is your 
disability. This is--I mean, it is pretty detailed and it is 
individualized. Yet you say that VA uses an average justice 
sort of model. Yet we spend a lot of time individually, and 
part of that is the problem. We have 66 percent of claims have 
errors and 44 percent of all--I have forgotten the data, but, I 
mean, we have a tremendous error rating. Why is that if we are 
using average justice as opposed to individualized? It looks to 
us as though we spend a lot of time with the individual. Can 
you explain that?
    Mr. Armour. I can speak to how Social Security does this--
--
    Mr. Self. All right.
    Mr. Armour [continuing]. and how they separate the 
determination process into two steps. One is a listing of 
impairments. These are conditions that are sort of severe 
enough that through medical evidence alone can determine that 
there is a disability. There is that. They have an all or 
nothing determination as well, is another thing that makes that 
makes Social Security a little clearer.
    Then if there is not that listing of that level of 
severity, then it is an individualized assessment that they 
have, and it is a residual--it is trying to estimate functional 
capacity at that individual level. They have done a, you know, 
spelling things out for the things that can be easily spelled 
out and then having an individual assessment where they see 
people's earnings leading up to it. You know, they have 
physicians comment not just on the medical component, but on 
the functional capacity component, and then they have a lot of 
oversight of that particular process. They have split apart 
that decision instead of trying to schedule everything.
    Mr. Self. Thank you very much. I think that is something we 
might do a deeper dive on.
    Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Self.
    Go ahead.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want a couple 
of quick follow-up questions.
    Ms. Curda, earlier I asked VA if they would commit to 
sharing their methodology with you. Would you be receptive to 
that?
    Ms. Curda. Absolutely.
    Mr. McGarvey. Perfect. Beyond sharing methods and data, is 
there anything more that you would ask the VA to better provide 
oversight, accountability, and quality assurance in this rating 
schedule?
    Ms. Curda. Just quicker turnarounds on things. When we ask 
for information, just instead of having to wait a long time for 
clearances and stuff, you know, just get it to us. If it 
exists, they should be able to provide it.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. One common theme between the first 
panel and between you all seem to be these silos of 
information. These silos are terrible things that I think are 
hurting our veterans. They are holding information and keeping 
it from people who need it when it should be shared, it should 
be transparent.
    Dr. Armour, you talked a little bit about this and we seem 
to be dealing with several information gaps, in part caused by 
some of these silos, which leads to nonexistent research, out-
of-date data sets. What other sorts of basic research need to 
happen and does it make sense to have that before people start 
talking about radically changing the VA compensation system?
    Mr. Armour. I think given the state of knowledge on the 
economic consequences of VA benefits, yes, we just do not have 
a lot of publicly available research on, right, today's 
veterans and today's system. I think, yes, kind of more 
research. I particular, I think it is not wildly complicated. I 
think it is sharing the existing data that Social Security has 
that the VBA, the VHA has, together could provide if that were 
more widely available, if more research could be conducted on 
that in a way in which there is transparency and comment so 
that modern techniques could be used. I think that would answer 
a lot of questions very quickly, again, if things moved.
    Mr. McGarvey. Transparency and sharing of information, I 
like it.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back to you.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. McGarvey, I have--since my time in 
academia to the time I am sitting next to you today, trying to 
convince--I do not care which institute of higher learning you 
are talking about and that famous catchphrase of silos, how do 
you sew the seams between the two? Who will have the 
willingness to open--like in my personal opinion, the VA should 
be the premier institute of research on the planet, amount of 
information that is inside of the VA system. They have always 
been, since I have had the opportunity to work alongside the VA 
or with the VA, very protective of us, the veteran community. 
That information is some of the most cherished data on the 
planet. Everyone is knocking on the door saying, please let us 
engage with you to share this information so we can move any 
side, any kind of information forward. VA has always been very 
reluctant of that because who is going to fall on the sword? 
Who is going to take responsibility if there is a breach and 
the information is gone or lost or taken or worst case 
scenario?
    Conversations on the committee and with secretaries, deputy 
secretary, who you are talking to, and this kind of goes to 
what you are talking about, Dr. Hunter and Mr. Armour, is, yes, 
if other institutions, whether that is VSO or any institute of 
higher learning, had the opportunity to do that, where would we 
be now? I have been having this conversation for 12, 15 years, 
so I can only imagine how long you guys have been having it. I 
speak to the broader research base. You guys look like you are 
in your 20's. How do we break that down? We do. It is a fair 
question.
    I can understand and I really appreciate where we are in 
the protection mechanism, especially in the branches of 
artificial intelligence, machine learning, and the bad actors 
that are pushing that out to take from us that we cannot defend 
against. As we incorporate machine learning language models 
into this data to find these answers, at what point, this is a 
fair question to ask, at what point do we find the answers to 
solve the issues of the brain?
    If we have the ability to get rid of sleep apnea or 
tinnitus or the varying degrees of heart disease and exposures 
from being in combat, where do we sit then? Do we ask the 
veterans, like, hey, we are going to give you this and 
everything is going to be okay? Or do we grandfather it in and 
we move forward into the next generation? These are discussions 
we are going to have to have. You would be pleasantly surprised 
how challenging those discussions are going to be. It lends 
itself to what Mr. Self was saying, is that what point do we 
say, hey, look, we can fix these things? How do we engage with 
the veterans so they will receive it? How does the VA implement 
it? Then how do we move forward to make sure that we do not 
talk about 1945 infrastructure, which I still find moderately 
entertaining?
    I will never say we are moving fast enough because of all 
the veterans in my district that walk up to me and say we are 
not. I am listening. As a veteran myself, I have that same 
response. I do understand how complicated the VA system is just 
from this side. I have never actually been inside the VA, but 
having offline afterschool conversations of how challenging it 
could be, it is. I just hope and pray every single day they 
keep moving forward. We will do everything that we can on this 
committee to make sure that they have what they need.
    As problem sets continue to increase and it seems like we 
always have to talk about dollar bills. Well, I am going to be 
quite honest. You know what? Dollar bills is something that is 
extremely hard to find even in the VA considering how far in 
debt we are as a country. We beg, borrow, and steal and kick a 
lot of butt to get the money for our veterans because we would 
not be sitting there having this conversation if it was not for 
you all. We are willing to do that, but we make sure we have to 
do it right. It has to be done right.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for joining us today 
to discuss how the Department can address the longstanding 
delays in updating the rating schedule and, more importantly, 
how we ensure this does not remain a recurring problem for the 
future and for our veterans. When the rating schedule is 
outdated or applied inconsistently, it just creates confusion, 
frustration, and delay. That is something that we do not want.
    Updating the system is necessary. I am excited about the 
opportunity. This will be closed up and we will complete this 
at the summer of this year. This committee will be on standby 
to see if that actually happens.
    Ranking Member, do you have closing remarks? We good to go?
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Luttrell. Yep. I ask unanimous consent that all members 
may have 5 legislative days to revise and extend their remarks 
and include extraneous material. Without objection, so ordered.
    We are adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

      
      
      
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                    Prepared Statement of Nina Tann

    Good afternoon, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and 
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity 
to appear before you today to discuss the Department of Veterans 
Affairs' (VA) efforts to modernize disability benefits. Joining me 
today is Dr. Ulia Sokol, a Medical Officer with the Veterans Benefits 
Administration.
    For disability compensation or pension purposes, a Veteran's 
disabilities are evaluated using the VA Schedule for Rating 
Disabilities (VASRD), also known as the ``rating schedule.'' The 
statute giving VA authority to establish and maintain the rating 
schedule, 38 U.S.C. section 1155, states: ``The Secretary shall adopt 
and apply a schedule of ratings of reductions in earning capacity from 
specific injuries or combination of injuries. The ratings shall be 
based, as far as practicable, upon the average impairments of earning 
capacity resulting from such injuries in civil occupations...The 
Secretary shall from time to time readjust this schedule of ratings in 
accordance with experience.''
    VA is committed to updating its disability compensation rating 
criteria to accurately reflect medical science, advancements and 
improvements in technology, and current terminology. These updates 
allow VA to ensure its disability evaluations accurately compensate 
Veterans based on average impairments in earning capacity.
    While VA has made numerous changes to the VASRD over time,\1\ it 
has not completed a holistic and comprehensive update since 1945, 
despite notable progress during that time period. In 2003, the 
Government Accountability Office (GAO) deemed VA's disability program 
high-risk because VA had not systematically updated the VASRD. In 
response, VA developed a Modernization Plan in 2009 with the goal of 
comprehensively updating all 15 body systems of the VASRD. VA 
established workgroups that included medical and VA policy subject 
matter experts. VA used the groups' analyses of established medical 
research to begin the rulemaking process, which involves drafting and 
publishing a proposed and final rule for each body system. To date, VA 
has completed updates on 11 of the 15 body systems. Specifically, VA 
completed: Dental and Oral Conditions in Fiscal Year (FY) 2017; 
Endocrine, Gynecological Conditions and Disorders of the Breast, Organs 
of Special Sense (Eyes), and Skin in Fiscal Year 2018; Hematologic and 
Lymphatic and Infectious Diseases, Immune Disorders, and Nutritional 
Deficiencies in Fiscal Year 2019; Musculoskeletal, Cardiovascular, and 
Genitourinary in Fiscal Year 2021; and Digestive in Fiscal Year 2024. 
Updates made to the VASRD are generally applied prospectively and 
therefore, do not impact current beneficiaries in receipt of disability 
compensation. In circumstances where a change to the rating schedule 
lowers the rating assigned to a particular disability, Veterans enjoy 
numerous protections. Most notable of these protections is that a 
readjustment in the rating schedule cannot cause a rating in effect at 
the time of the change to be reduced unless an improvement in the 
Veteran's disability is shown to have occurred.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Genitourinary, effective 02/17/1994. Dental/Oral, effective 02/
17/1994. Gynecological Conditions/Breast Disorders, effective 05/22/
1995. Hemic and Lymphatic, effective 10/23/1995. Endocrine, effective 
06/06/1996. Infectious Diseases, effective 08/30/1996. Respiratory, 
effective 10/07/1996. Mental Disorders, effective 11/07/1996. Muscle 
Injuries, effective 07/03/1997. Cardiovascular System, effective 01/12/
1998. Ear, effective 05/11/1999. Skin, effective 08/30/2002. Eye, 
effective 11/10/2008.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    VA published proposed rules for the remaining four body systems, 
Mental Disorders (AQ82), Respiratory, and Ear (AQ72) in Fiscal Year 
2022 and Neurological Conditions and Convulsive Disorders (AQ73) in 
Fiscal Year 2025. VA anticipates publishing the final rules for all 
four body systems in three rulemakings by the end of Fiscal Year 2026, 
which will complete the first holistic and comprehensive update since 
1945.
    In 2019, VA established the VASRD Program Management Office with a 
mission of revising the VASRD through rulemaking--body system by body 
system, in staggered cycles of recurring reviews, in response to GAO's 
high-risk recommendations. This iterative process ensures continuing 
alignment of the VASRD evaluation criteria with medical, scientific, 
and technological advancements. As with the initial iteration, VA will 
apply lessons learned from previous efforts and begin future iterations 
by establishing workgroups prior to developing proposed and final 
rules, which undergo a thorough medical, legal, and policy review prior 
to publication in the Federal Register. The rulemaking process 
generally takes 2 to 5 years to complete but can take longer due to the 
length and medical complexity of the VASRD updates. Updates to the 
VASRD require coordination to implement required claims processing 
system changes and to provide training and guidance to clinicians on 
disability benefits questionnaires and to claims processors charged 
with correctly applying current disability evaluation criteria.
    Following the completion of the first holistic and comprehensive 
update to the VASRD, VA plans to continue updating the VASRD with the 
evolution of medical science and treatment modalities. While VA aims to 
update the rating schedule to simplify the claims process for Veterans 
and promote a fair and efficient process, VA will also standardize 
rating terminology and address contemporary claims processing issues to 
assist claims processors charged with delivering fair, efficient, and 
timely benefits decisions to Veterans.
    In closing, VA remains committed to modernizing disability benefits 
by making continuous updates to the VASRD. We thank the Committee for 
your continued support of programs that serve the Nation's Veterans and 
look forward to working together to further enhance delivery of 
benefits and services to Veterans.
    Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. We look forward to 
answering any questions you may have.

                 Prepared Statement of Elizabeth Curda

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                  Prepared Statement of Philip Armour

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                 Prepared Statement of Kyleanne Hunter

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


            Prepared Statement of Disabled American Veterans

    Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey and members of the 
Subcommittee:

    On behalf of DAV (Disabled American Veterans) and our nearly 1 
million members, I am pleased to offer this statement outlining our 
views of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) disability 
compensation schedule of rating disabilities (VASRD) and how well it 
fulfills the purposes for which it was created. As you know, DAV is a 
congressionally chartered, VA-accredited, nonprofit veterans service 
organization (VSO) with nearly a million members, all of whom are 
wartime service-disabled veterans. We are dedicated to a single 
purpose: empowering veterans to lead high-quality lives with respect 
and dignity.
    To fulfill DAV's service mission assisting veterans, their 
families, caregivers and survivors seeking benefits earned as a result 
of their military service, we have over 4,200 chapter, department, 
transition and national service officers (NSO) nationwide; including 
DAV accredited county veterans service officers. Today there are over 
1.1 million veterans and their survivors who have chosen DAV to be 
their representative before the VA and last year we helped them file 
over 560,000 claims for benefits to the Veterans Benefits 
Administration (VBA), taking over 3.1 million actions to support them. 
This assistance, like all of DAV's charitable services, was provided at 
no charge to veterans and their families, and DAV receives no 
compensation of any kind from the government for providing these 
services. Our comments are informed by the collective experience and 
expertise of our benefits experts.
    The Subcommittee's hearing comes in the wake of a series of 
outrageously misleading and highly inaccurate stories that The 
Washington Post published last fall. Frankly, DAV was shocked and 
disgusted to read the Post stories and deeply disappointed with certain 
so-called veterans advocates who have been repeating and amplifying 
these falsehoods. To assess how well the VASRD has served and can 
continue to serve as an instrument to provide justice and compensation 
to veterans injured, disabled, and made ill from their service, it is 
necessary to first debunk several myths about VA disability 
compensation.
    For example, the Post alleged that disabled veterans are 
``swamping'' the VA with ``false'', ``fraudulent'' and ``dubious'' 
disability claims for injuries and illnesses because the Post considers 
them illegitimate. Nothing could be farther from the truth. According 
to the VA Office of Inspector General, there have been fewer than 200 
fraud convictions annually in recent years. With VBA processing almost 
3 million claims in the most recent fiscal year, that equates to a 
fraud rate of less than 1/100th of 1 percent. To justify their 
conclusion that VA is ``swamped'' with illegitimate claims, the Post 
argued that common claims for conditions such as depression, PTSD, 
hypertension, diabetes, eczema, tinnitus, and pain were ``dubious'' and 
``exaggeration''. With veteran suicide still slowly rising, it is 
outrageous to assert that depression and PTSD are not real 
disabilities, just as it is absurd to argue that hypertension and 
diabetes are exaggerations. Moreover, severe eczema, tinnitus and pain 
can be highly disruptive and disabling to a veterans life.
    The Post also advanced the myth that ``Congress and VA have made it 
easier to cheat and take advantage of the system,'' referring to the 
Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our Promise to Address 
Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act of 2022 (P.L. 117-168) and the Veterans 
Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act (AMA) (P.L. 115-55). These 
landmark laws were expressly designed by Congress to make it easier for 
veterans to receive earned benefits because millions of them have faced 
unnecessary obstacles that delayed or too often denied their legitimate 
claims for benefits. It is a gross mischaracterization to imply that 
these laws made it easier for criminal veterans to steal taxpayer 
dollars, rather than recognize how the laws have fundamentally improved 
the ability of millions of veterans to receive long overdue justice and 
compensation.
    Another misunderstanding the Post and others continue to promote is 
that VA disability compensation should only go to veterans unable to 
work. According to the Post story, ``The current [VA] disability 
program was designed 80 years ago to provide a safety net for 
unemployable [emphasis added] veterans wounded or injured during World 
War II.'' That statement demonstrates ignorance about the history and 
purpose of VA's disability compensation system, how it has evolved over 
the years, and how it operates today. It is important to recognize that 
the VA disability compensation system is fundamentally different than 
Social Security Disability Insurance and workmen's compensation 
programs that are only concerned with a person's ability to work. This 
is because military service is a uniquely dangerous type of work for 
the men and women who wear the uniform. Further, unlike other hazardous 
occupations, service members are not able to quit their jobs whenever 
they choose, since they are under orders. They are also not able to sue 
the Federal Government if they are injured, regardless of the 
circumstances, due to the Feres Doctrine\1\.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Feres v. United States, 340 U.S. 135 (1950)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The VA disability compensation was not created only to assist 
``unemployable'', veterans, nor was it designed to compensate for 
veterans' lost earnings, a common misunderstanding. Instead, beginning 
after World War I, Congress created and over the course of many years 
evolved a system centered on providing compensation to disabled 
veterans based on ``...the average impairments in earnings 
capacity...'', a legal phrase that may sound like economic loss, but in 
reality, measures functional loss. Under this standard, a blind or 
paralyzed veteran who through perseverance is able to overcome their 
disabilities and work is still recognized as having suffered a loss of 
functional capacity and deserving of compensation. The fact that they 
have been able to overcome their disability does not alleviate our 
Nation's obligation to compensate them for the price they paid and will 
continue to pay for the rest of their lives.
    For these reasons, VA disability compensation uses an ``average 
person'' standard rather than an ``individual'' one that would require 
VA to evaluate the unique characteristics and circumstances of each of 
the millions of veterans who are wounded, injured, or made ill in 
service. Creating such a system based on each individual veteran's 
actual loss of earnings would not only be impractical - since most 
service members leaving the military have never had a full-time 
civilian job - but would also be dramatically more complicated, time-
consuming, and expensive to implement. What this also means in practice 
is that disabled veterans are strongly incentivized to seek meaningful 
work since doing so will not result in a reduction in their disability 
compensation.
    In fact, this is one of the most important but often overlooked 
strengths of the current VA disability compensation system: disabled 
veterans are incentivized to continually improve their health and well-
being in order to pursue meaningful employment and entrepreneurship. 
The Post apparently believes that even severely disabled veterans - 
those who have lost limbs, are blind or paralyzed - only merit 
disability compensation when they are unable to work. This view fails 
to recognize all the time and effort it may take for these men and 
women to overcome such disabilities, the impact on the families and the 
other parts of their lives, including how it often shortens their 
lives. Providing disability compensation is just one way that our 
government helps to keep the promise to the men and women who served.
    Another common myth is the false belief that VA's disability rating 
system, and specifically the VASRD, has not been updated or modernized 
since 1945. While there was a major overhaul of the rating schedule 
following World War II, particularly to add new psychological 
conditions, there have been literally hundreds of changes and updates 
to the VASRD since then, as can be seen in the Code of Federal 
Regulations (CFR) Appendix A to Subpart B of Part 4. More recently, 
since September 2017, VA has comprehensively reviewed and updated the 
rating schedule for at least eight of the 15 body systems, and is 
actively working on the others.
    Mr. Chairman, almost two decades ago, after Congress created the 
Veterans Disability Benefits Commission to explore whether major 
changes were needed to VA's benefit programs, one of my DAV 
predecessors testified that the disability compensation system was:

    ``...fundamentally sound and the most practical approach to the 
complex task of fairly compensating a large number of veterans for whom 
the effect of disability is as diverse as the demographic and 
socioeconomic characteristics of the members of the military force and 
the citizens of our Nation from which those members come.'' \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Testimony of Rick Surratt, DAV Deputy National Legislative 
Director, before the Committee on Medical Evaluation of Veterans for 
Disability Compensation of the Institute of Medicine, July 7, 2006.

    This statement echoes a famous quote attributed to Winston 
Churchill, who observed that, ``democracy is the worst form of 
government except for all those other forms that have been tried...'' 
While the VA rating system and the VASRD is not perfect, DAV continues 
to believe that is the most effective and efficient way to fairly and 
equitably compensate veterans for the disabilities, injuries, and 
illnesses they have suffered in service to the Nation.
    We also believe that some of the questions being raised about 
whether the VA disability compensation system is properly structured 
are the result of persistent problems with the claims processing 
system. If veterans were able to receive fast, accurate, and 
transparent decisions on their claims for benefits, confidence in the 
system could be significantly improved. To help accomplish that, DAV 
offers the following recommendations to make the claims processing 
system work better for veterans.

          Allow veterans to file claims by phone
        VA allows a veteran to submit an Intent to File (ITF) form by 
        phone, but not a formal claim, such as for an increased 
        evaluation or secondary condition. We believe a veteran should 
        be able to contact the VA by phone and file a claim for any 
        condition at any time, just as they can for an ITF.

          Amend VA's policy on incorrect forms
        Currently, the VA treats claims filed on an incorrect form 
        merely as a request for a claims application, which can result 
        in a veteran receiving a delayed effective date and potential 
        loss of tens of thousands of dollars in benefits. To remedy 
        this situation, VA should accept any filing made by a veteran 
        for benefits as a clear statement of the veteran's ``intent to 
        file'' a claim and protect that effective date.

          Allow veterans to certify their symptom statements 
        during examinations
        When veterans receive VA disability examinations, they are 
        often required to describe symptoms of conditions they are 
        claiming to be used in making a rating decision. However, when 
        they receive their claims decisions, many times the symptoms 
        they reported during the exam are different from what was 
        recorded by the examiner. To alleviate this problem, VA should 
        add a step in the exam process that allows veterans to review 
        and certify that the symptoms they reported have been 
        accurately recorded.

          Strengthen presumptive decision-making processes for 
        toxic exposure claims
        Presumptive service connection is used to improve the process 
        and outcomes for veterans filing benefit claims related 
        primarily to military toxic exposures and environmental 
        hazards. The historic PACT Act created new presumptives for 
        burn pits and other airborne hazards, however, it did not cover 
        all affected veterans and all toxic substances. The DAV and 
        MOAA report, Ending the Wait for Toxic-Exposed Veterans, 
        includes a number of recommendations to build on the PACT Act 
        and create a more effective presumptive decision-making process 
        to improve the accuracy and timeliness of toxic-exposed 
        veterans claims for disability compensation.

          Optimize the use of technology, particularly AI
        In order to improve both productivity and accuracy, VBA must 
        continue to maximize and optimize the use of advanced 
        technology, including artificial intelligence (AI), which can 
        significantly increase processing speed and reduce errors. 
        However, its application must be carefully implemented and 
        continuously monitored to ensure essential expertise and 
        decision-making authority is retained by human employees.

          Ensure VA has the resources to improve accuracy and 
        timeliness of claims
        Due to the enactment of the PACT Act in August 2022, along with 
        expanded outreach efforts to veterans in crisis or at risk of 
        suicide, VBA has seen a tremendous influx of new benefit claims 
        and a larger claims backlog. Thanks to staffing increases in 
        2023 and 2024, the rising backlog was stemmed early in 2025 and 
        has since declined. However, we urge the Committee to closely 
        monitor staffing levels at VBA, and particularly VA's 30,000 
        FTE force reduction last year, to ensure there are adequate 
        resources to process veterans claims quickly and accurately.

    Mr. Chairman, we appreciate the Committee's interest in reviewing 
the VA rating schedule and how well it serves disabled veterans. While 
it is not perfect, we believe it is a proven and reliable methodology 
to fairly compensate the men and women who have served, suffered, and 
sacrificed for the country. We look forward to working with the 
Committee and VA to continually review, and when appropriate, update 
the VASRD and other aspects of VA's disability compensation to keep the 
promise to the men and women who served.

                    Prepared Statement of Berry Law

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


  Prepared Statement of Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States

    Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and members of the 
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars of the United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) 
ongoing modernization of the Veterans Affairs Schedule for Rating 
Disabilities (VASRD), which is a critical component of VA's disability 
compensation system.
    The VFW considers this review as essential to ensuring the accuracy 
of disability compensation ratings while also providing equitable 
financial relief to veterans whose service-connected injuries or 
illnesses have caused, or may cause, undue economic hardship. As we 
begin this most important discussion publicly, we must note no 
witnesses appearing before the subcommittee for this hearing represent 
national VA-accredited organizations that routinely interact with VA 
and the rating schedule on behalf of claimants. Notably absent are 
organizations such as the VFW, Disabled American Veterans, the American 
Legion, the National Association of County Veterans Service Officers, 
any accredited agents or attorneys, or their representative trade 
associations that collectively hold power of attorney for millions of 
VA beneficiaries, and possess decades of direct, practical experience 
navigating the complexities and nuance of the VASRD in real-world 
adjudication.
    Moreover, anyone who is accredited through VA has a regulatory 
requirement under 38 CFR Part 14 to understand the intricacies of the 
VASRD. Without witnesses who routinely train on and apply the VASRD for 
claimants seeking benefits, this hearing risks trusting academic or 
theoretical assessments rather than current, veteran-centered 
perspectives grounded in daily practice. This may unintentionally shape 
the subcommittee's understanding of the VASRD in ways that do not fully 
reflect its operational realities.
    The VFW is particularly concerned that mischaracterizations or 
misunderstandings about the VASRD may go unchallenged, including 
assertions that it is inherently flawed due to its perceived age, that 
the combined ratings table philosophy is incoherent, or that disability 
compensation should be tied to employability. These arguments, while 
often presented as justification for radical reforms, carry serious 
implications for veterans and their families. Absent testimony from 
accredited advocates who can explain these principles in practical 
terms, the VFW believes the subcommittee may accept these positions 
without sufficient scrutiny or rebuttal from those most familiar with 
how these standards protect veterans from economic harm resulting from 
service-connected disabilities.
    If these issues are not fully and publicly examined in the hearing 
room, the conversation risks moving in directions that undermine long-
standing principles of veteran disability compensation. This 
compensation is first and foremost recognition of diminished earning 
capacity caused by injuries or illnesses incurred in service. Likewise, 
the combined ratings table reflects deliberate calculations intended to 
balance equity, consistency, and sustainability. These are complex 
matters that demand input from experienced practitioners who represent 
veterans every day, not just abstract policy discussions.
    For these reasons, we believe the subcommittee has a responsibility 
to convene an additional future hearing that includes testimony from 
accredited Veterans Service Organizations, agents, and attorneys with 
experience applying the VASRD on behalf of claimants. Committee members 
deserve to hear directly from those who understand the downstream 
consequences of proposed changes. Similarly, we recognize that our 
perspective is not the only perspective on this matter, and we invite 
public dialog and scrutiny of our perspective from members of the 
subcommittee to reach the best possible outcome for our veterans. 
Veterans deserve nothing less than a complete, balanced, and fully 
informed record before the subcommittee contemplates any legislative 
reforms to this critical system.
    The current VA disability rating framework has been in existence 
since April 1, 1945. For more than 80 years, this framework has 
undergone continued modernization to ensure veterans receive fair and 
accurate compensation based on current medical science and labor market 
realities. The basis of the current system is centered on the ``whole 
person'' formula, establishing a mathematical calculation that assesses 
each disability as independent of one another.
    This structure works hand in hand with a veteran's ``average 
impairment'' and the claimant's current disability picture. Previous to 
this implementation, a veteran who was fortunate enough to be granted a 
disability rating received payments based on ``occupational variants'' 
that were grounded in the veteran's pre-war occupation. The current 
structure offers a more objective evaluation based on the ``average 
impairment of earnings capacity'' more reflective of the typical person 
in civil occupations. The justification for this structure is grounded 
in tort law, as the VFW has noted in its recent discussions over The 
Washington Post's misrepresentation of the current VA disability 
system. This fact was recently reinforced in a Military.com editorial 
by contributor and Marine Corps veteran Haley Fuller, reminding readers 
that service-connected disability payments ``were not designed as a 
safety net for those unable to function in civilian life. They were 
designed as a liability mechanism.''
    Any deliberation on changes to the VASRD must respect this legal 
fact. Proposals like eliminating compensation for so-called minor 
disabilities or means testing the receipt of compensation must be 
stopped before ever coming before Congress. The VFW invites discussion 
with the subcommittee on these principles to ensure that there is 
consensus that ``average impairment'' and ``lost earning potential'' 
mean that veterans drawing service-connected compensation can both work 
and thrive financially, but that these factors do not absolve the U.S. 
Government of its responsibility to resolve the tort.
    Every American who volunteers for military service understands that 
service is dangerous. Every enlistment contract obligates the service 
member to upon order report to ``combat or other hazardous 
situations.'' Understanding this contractual obligation, veterans 
cannot sue the military for resolution of occupational illnesses or 
injuries under the well-established Feres doctrine. Eroding this 
paradigm would compromise the good order and discipline of the military 
and undermine the willingness of Americans to volunteer for this 
inherently dangerous profession. This is why the VFW has vocally 
opposed anyone who whispers the notion of eroding this benefit system, 
scaling back compensation systems, or radically manipulating the rating 
schedule.
    While some view providing benefits to veterans as a sacred 
obligation, it is in fact much simpler than that. It is fulfilling a 
contract. Honor the contract.
    At the time of its implementation, the schedule categorized 
approximately 1,600 medical conditions into broad body systems. The 
criteria were heavily designed to evaluate the physical trauma more 
common to World War II such as shrapnel and gunshot wounds, 
amputations, and infectious diseases. In the present day, there are 
more than 1,100 specific diagnostic codes, organized into 15 body 
systems that may qualify a veteran for disability compensation.
    This is clearly indicative of the changes in how medicine has 
advanced, but it also indicates that VA has been receptive to changing 
with the times. We know that on today's modern battlefield, troops are 
more likely to survive catastrophic injuries or diseases that may have 
been fatal in past conflicts. The current rating system is reflective 
of these advances that have been adjusted as medicine and other 
technologies continue to evolve.

MODERNIZATION

    The VA's modernization plan is centered on a phased revision of all 
15 body systems in the VASRD. This effort involves updating outdated 
diagnostic criteria, incorporating modern medical terminology, and 
aligning evaluation criteria with contemporary clinical and functional 
evidence. Part of this modernization includes Earnings Loss Studies 
(ELS) that use data from multiple Federal sources to better understand 
how disabilities impact veterans' earning capacity, which is a critical 
data source for setting compensation levels. Organizationally, the VFW 
has asked for updates to any available ELS data on multiple occasions 
but has yet to receive any useful information. This data is critical to 
ensure that veterans are fairly compensated for injuries during service 
that impact their financial well-being. Additionally, this critical 
information will help show more clearly the long-term effects of 
illness or injury incurred in service in a way that is often overlooked 
in the civilian sector, and especially in recent news articles that 
have painted veterans as undeserving and even criminal.
    Many veterans who have rightfully been awarded a disability payment 
end up unemployed or underemployed because of long-term or unseen 
effects of their service. This is particularly true in veterans who 
experience the consequences of mental health or traumatic brain 
injuries. Previous occupations may trigger symptoms or cause 
disruptions in their daily employment. Employers may not be aware of 
these injuries and do not understand why the veteran needs to be absent 
from work for treatment or the side effects of medications. This can 
result in veterans taking jobs that do not require exposure to loud 
noises, interactions with the public, or other stressors that may have 
a negative result. The rating system, whether in its current form or 
future state, is critical to acknowledge and be sympathetic to the 
symptoms they may suffer and provide the necessary compensation to make 
up for lost wages.
    To date, VA has made measurable but nominal progress. Several body 
systems, such as digestive, dental, endocrine, gynecological, and 
others, have recently been revised or updated with new criteria. 
Updates to the digestive system, which added or refined evaluation 
criteria for conditions like celiac disease and irritable bowel 
syndrome, became effective in 2024. Additional proposed updates for 
respiratory, auditory, and mental disorders are underway, with public 
commentary periods concluded and rulemaking in progress.
    Despite these efforts, implementation has been slower than expected 
and extended far beyond initial timelines. According to the Government 
Accountability Office (GAO), the comprehensive update has been delayed 
by lengthy internal reviews and lack of clear metrics. As a result, 
full completion is now projected for Fiscal Year 2026, far behind VA's 
original intent. The VFW provided comments to the Federal Register as 
far back as April 2022 for proposed changes to mental disorders among 
others. Through the last two Administrations, we have asked for 
progress reports as to the remaining proposed changes and final rules. 
We have been consistently told that the regulations are still under 
review.
    We are happy to note that over the past 3 years limited progress 
has taken place. However, it has been inconsistent and, at times, 
obscure. While VA has published updated criteria for some body systems, 
major areas still await final rulemaking and implementation. Several 
proposed changes have been delayed multiple times, leaving veterans and 
stakeholders uncertain about timing and the potential effects of the 
proposed changes. This prolonged uncertainty undermines confidence 
among veterans, family members, and survivors.
    There are considerable advantages to the modernization plan. 
Updated criteria reflect contemporary medical understanding, removing 
archaic language and measurement concepts, and enabling adjudicators to 
make clearer, more consistent decisions. By continuing to evaluate and 
incorporate earnings loss data, there will be a closer tie between 
disability evaluation and real-world economic impact. This can lead to 
fairer and more equitable compensation among veterans. It will also 
encourage those who may have shied away from seeking benefits and 
health care treatment to pursue the benefits their service has earned 
them.

CHALLENGES

    However, this modernization effort also faces substantial 
challenges. The slow pace of rulemaking and implementation frustrates 
veterans who have waited years for meaningful updates. The lack of 
transparency, clearly defined metrics, and organizational leadership as 
noted in GAO reports, makes it difficult to assess where bottlenecks 
persist and how they will be resolved.
    As VA moves forward with modernizing the rating schedule, it must 
also continue to invest in its IT infrastructure. This has long been a 
concern of the VFW and our partner organizations. The constant changing 
of platforms and systems may be an operational necessity, but it also 
has unintended consequences. If VA were to complete its review today, 
it is more than likely that the underlying systems VA depends on to 
process claims still would not be up to date to manage these vast and 
complex changes. This will lead to continued delays in benefits and an 
excess workload.
    The VFW has long held that we support the use of AI and analytics 
to assist in the claims development and review process. It has the 
potential to increase the efficiency of evidence gathering, improve 
accuracy, and promote consistency in benefit decisions. We agree that 
changes to the rating schedule and its underlying support system are 
necessary to support objective review and decision-making. However, we 
remain steadfast in our position that VA must balance technology and 
human discernment. An overreliance on underdeveloped technology may 
lead to poor quality in decisions, especially when considering the 
unique human factors of each disability claim. While AI is a powerful 
tool to promote efficiency, the VFW maintains that claims must include 
human review prior to issuing any final decisions. VA should ensure 
that regulatory changes and the use of technological platforms enhance 
the process but do not replace the human element of supporting 
veterans.

CONCLUSION

    In closing, the modernization of the VA Schedule for Rating 
Disabilities represents a potential vital step toward a more just and 
contemporary disability compensation system for our Nation's veterans, 
if it is conducted with the needs of the veteran as its central 
obligation. While the current plan has yielded some updates and 
demonstrates a commitment to consistent, evidence-based revisions, its 
execution has been hampered by delays and management challenges.
    VA's advisory mechanisms, such as the Advisory Committee on 
Disability Compensation, provide important stakeholder input, but they 
too have consistently highlighted the complexity of this reform. These 
committees are designed to guide periodic review and revision of the 
VASRD, yet their outputs must be integrated into a larger regulatory 
process that has proven slow and administratively heavy.
    The VFW is ready to work with VA and this subcommittee to overcome 
these persistent obstacles. VA must continue to honor the selfless 
service of veterans, family members, and survivors. We look forward to 
working together to ensure equitable benefits for all entitled 
claimants. The VFW urges VA to accelerate progress, provide clear 
updates to stakeholders and this subcommittee, establish clear 
milestones, and maintain transparent communication with veterans and 
Congress.
    Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, this concludes our 
testimony. We are happy to answer any questions you may have.

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

    Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW 
has not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 2026, nor has it 
received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign 
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.

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