[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                       SAFE WORKPLACES, STRONGER
                    PARTNERSHIPS: THE FUTURE OF OSHA
                         COMPLIANCE ASSISTANCE
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               Before The

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON WORKFORCE PROTECTIONS

                                 OF THE

                  COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________


             HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JULY 16, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-23

                               __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Workforce
    
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

        Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
        
                               __________
                               
                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-266 PDF                    WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
       
                  COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE

                    TIM WALBERG, Michigan, Chairman

JOE WILSON, South Carolina           ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, 
VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina            Virginia,
GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania           Ranking Member
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut
ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York          FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia               SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JAMES COMER, Kentucky                MARK TAKANO, California
BURGESS OWENS, Utah                  ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina
LISA C. McCLAIN, Michigan            MARK DeSAULNIER, California
MARY E. MILLER, Illinois             DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey
JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana              LUCY McBATH, Georgia
KEVIN KILEY, California              JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut
MICHAEL A. RULLI, Ohio               ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota
JAMES C. MOYLAN, Guam                HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan
ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       GREG CASAR, Texas
RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania         SUMMER L. LEE, Pennsylvania
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington      JOHN W. MANNION, New York
MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          YASSAMIN ANSARI, Arizona
MARK B. MESSMER, Indiana
RANDY FINE, Florida

                     R.J. Laukitis, Staff Director
              Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON WORKFORCE PROTECTIONS

                 RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania, Chairman

MARK B. MESSMER, Indiana             ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota,
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin              Ranking Member
JAMES COMER, Kentucky                HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan
MARY E. MILLER, Illinois             GREG CASAR, Texas
RANDY FINE, Florida                  MARK TAKANO, California
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on July 16, 2025....................................     1

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

    Mackenzie, Hon. Ryan, Chairman, Subcommittee on Workforce 
      Protections................................................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     3
    Omar, Hon. Ilhan, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Workforce 
      Protections................................................     5
        Prepared statement of....................................    12

                               WITNESSES

    Williams, Chris, Executive Director, Voluntary Protection 
      Programs Participants' Association.........................    14
        Prepared statement of....................................    16
    Harper, Myron, National Health and Safety Director, Cintas 
      Corporation................................................    20
        Prepared statement of....................................    21
    Reindel, Rebecca L., Safety and Health Director, American 
      Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial 
      Organizations (AFL-CIO)....................................    22
        Prepared statement of....................................    25
    Sell, Kevin, Senior Manager Corporate Development, Kwest 
      Group......................................................    44
        Prepared statement of....................................    46

                         ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS

    Chairman Mackenzie:
        Letter dated July 16, 2025, from the National Retail 
          Federation (NRF).......................................    64
    Ranking Member Omar:
        Statement for the Record from United Steelworkers (USW)..     7

 
                       SAFE WORKPLACES, STRONGER
                    PARTNERSHIPS: THE FUTURE OF OSHA
                         COMPLIANCE ASSISTANCE

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, July 16, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on Workforce Protections,
                      Committee on Education and Workforce,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in 
Room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC, Hon. 
Ryan Mackenzie (Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Mackenzie, Messmer, Grothman, 
Fine, Walberg, Omar, Stevens, Takano, and Scott.
    Staff present: Vlad Cerga, Director of Information 
Technology; Libby Kearns, Press Assistant; Katerina Kerska, 
Legislative Assistant; Trey Kovacs, Director of Workforce 
Policy; Campbell Ladd, Clerk; R.J. Laukitis, Staff Director; 
Danny Marca, Director of Information Technology; Brad Mannion, 
Professional Staff Member; John Martin, Deputy Director of 
Workforce Policy/Counsel; Audra McGeorge, Communications 
Director; Alexis Morgan, Intern; Daniel Nadel, Legislative 
Assistant; Kevin O'Keefe, Professional Staff Member; Ethan 
Pann, Deputy Press Secretary and Digital Director; Kane 
Riddell, Staff Assistant; Carl Rifino, Intern; Sara Robertson, 
Press Secretary; Heidi Schneider, Professional Staff Member; 
Ambrose Tierney, Intern; Ali Watson, Director of Member 
Services; Joe Wheeler, Professional Staff Member; James 
Whittaker, General Counsel; Samantha Wright, Intern; Sayda Bir, 
Minority Intern; Ilana Brunner, Minority General Counsel; 
Alexandra Walker, Minority Intern; Dhrtvan Sherman, Minority 
Research Assistant; Bob Shull, Minority Senior Labor Policy 
Counsel; Raiyana Malone, Minority Press Secretary; Brian 
Marshall, Minority Legal Intern; Kevin McDermott Minority 
Director of Labor Policy; Marie McGrew, Minority Press 
Assistant; Eleazer Padilla, Minority Staff Assistant; Veronique 
Pluviose, Minority Staff Director; Banyon Vassar, Minority 
Director of IT.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Good morning. This Subcommittee on 
Workforce Protections will come to order. I note that a quorum 
is present. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to call 
a recess at any time. Today's hearing will explore compliance 
assistance programs offered by OSHA, the Occupational Safety 
and Health Administration, and its State partners.
    We will consider ways to strengthen these Federal programs 
and learn more about the public, private, safety partnerships 
that OSHA's mission includes, with goals of protecting those 
who work hard every day to provide for their families and 
deserve to do so in safe working conditions.
    Since its establishment in 1971, OSHA has developed 
enforcement efforts and robust compliance assistance programs. 
These programs help protect the millions of Americans who work 
hard every day to provide for their families, by giving 
employers the tools and guidance they need to prevent injuries 
and illness before they occur.
    Instead of relying solely on inspections and investigations 
after a violation happens, compliance assistance programs 
encourage a proactive approach to safety, which is essential to 
any effective health and safety management system. Many of 
these programs have been in place for almost as long as OSHA 
itself.
    For example, this year marks the 50th anniversary of OSHA's 
onsite consultation program, which provides no cost, 
confidential occupational safety and health services that are 
tailored for small and medium sized businesses. In 1982, OSHA 
approved the first site for its Voluntary Protection Programs, 
which recognized workplaces with safety and health practices 
that go above and beyond legal requirements.
    In addition to OSHA's many Federal programs, there is a 
vast network of programs and initiatives conducted by states 
with their own OSHA approved State plans. As we look ahead, it 
is clear that workplaces are changing rapidly. New industries, 
emerging technologies, and evolving hazards require OSHA's 
compliance assistance programs to be more innovative, 
accessible, and adaptable than ever before.
    Updating compliance assistance programs calls for a 
collaborative approach. Strong partnerships among State 
agencies, nonprofit organizations, industry leaders, and other 
stakeholders will be vital. We will combine--we must combine 
enforcement efforts with educational opportunities for 
employers and workers who want to meet their compliance 
obligations if we are going to protect workers.
    Importantly, certain Federal programs, such as the VPP are 
discretionary programs, meaning their effectiveness can change 
dramatically year over year, and employers engaged in these 
programs are under constant threat of losing this critical 
resource. We will hear more about a solution that addresses 
this concern, and codifies the program, allowing it to perform 
more consistently.
    Today, we will also hear from individuals in their 
workplaces where these compliance assistance programs are used. 
The witnesses will offer their perspective on how these 
programs have made their workplaces safer, and they will make 
recommendations about how these programs can be improved to 
ensure worker health and safety.
    I look forward to today's hearing, and today's witnesses, 
discussing strategies to make OSHA's compliance assistance 
programs more effective and responsive to the needs of the 
workforce. With that, I yield to the Ranking Member for her 
opening statement.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Mackenzie follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]     

    Ms. Omar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today. Over the last 6 months, the 
Trump administration has embarked on an aggressive assault on 
worker protections. Just in the past 2 weeks, Trump's 
Department of Labor has released five dozen deregulatory 
rulemakings, two thirds of which focus on health and safety 
issues.
    These proposals target core worker protections, including 
changes to child labor rules, removing a requirement as basic 
and essential as having adequate lighting on construction 
sites, and even weakening workers' protection against asbestos. 
This spree of deregulation follows months of mass firing at the 
very agencies tasked with researching and investigating 
workplace conditions and a proposed budget that would reduce 
inspections and slash DOL's capacity to develop new safety 
standards.
    The message is clear. Workers' rights and protections are 
under attack. Compliance assistance programs, such as the 
Voluntary Protection Program, have their place, but they are no 
substitute for clear standards that are actively and 
effectively enforced. No job should ever be a death sentence.
    Workers deserve to come home to their families at the end 
of the day alive, healthy, and whole, yet according to the AFL-
CIO, workplace hazards killed approximately 140,000 workers in 
2023, including 5,283 workers from traumatic injuries and an 
estimated 135,000 from occupational diseases.
    To protect workers from harm, Congress has passed landmark 
safety laws, and established important agencies like OSHA, 
MSHA, NIOSH, and the Chemical Safety and Hazards Investigation 
Board. When they are all allowed to do their jobs and are fully 
funded, these agencies save lives and prevent harm to workers.
    Now, the Trump administration is attempting to strip away 
safety regulations and dismantle critical agencies like NIOSH 
and CSB. In doing so, they are threatening the lives of workers 
who rely on those safeguards and the resources these agencies 
provide.
    In my own district, we are already feeling the consequences 
of these cuts. The University of Minnesota's Midwest Center for 
Occupational Health and Safety is one of just 18 NIOSH-funded 
Education and Research Centers in the Nation. It trains the 
next generation of workplace safety experts, who will help 
protect our workers in the high-risk industries. Without NIOSH, 
the invaluable research and workforce development provided by 
that center and others like it across the country will be lost.
    That means fewer trained medical and safety professionals, 
less research capacity on critical issues, such as heat stress, 
and decreased investment in innovative technologies that can 
prevent illness and injury. The Trump administration's 
deregulatory agenda will result in more injuries, more deaths, 
more grieving families, and less accountability for employers 
who put their workers in harm's way.
    Committee Democrats are committed to honoring these workers 
who have been harmed or killed on the job, not just with words, 
but with action to change the system. Later today, Ranking 
Member Scott will reintroduce a bill that will finally bring 
workers the common-sense protection they deserve against heat-
related injuries and illness.
    I am proud to cosponsor the Asuncion Valdivia Heat Illness, 
Injury, and Fatality Prevention Act, which requires OSHA to 
finally issue an enforceable rule with the strongest feasible 
protection against heat illness, including paid rest breaks, 
access to water, shaded or cooled recovery areas, and training 
that is delivered in the language and format the workers 
understand.
    These are sensible safeguards that will save lives. Ranking 
Member Scott, Representative Courtney, and I also reintroduced 
the Protecting American Workers Act, which would make long 
overdue improvements to the enforcement of the Occupational 
Safety and Health Act. This bill would expand coverage to 
millions of workers currently excluded from the law's 
protections and strengthen whistleblower protections.
    These reforms are critical to preventing the most serious 
violations that endanger worker safety. Democrats are offering 
real solutions to the problems workers face on the job instead 
of ripping away protections. I hope that our discussion today 
can center around ensuring that workers come home safely at the 
end of the day.
    Finally, Mr. Chairman, I request unanimous consent to enter 
into the record a statement from the United Steelworkers about 
the compliance assistance program we will be discussing today.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Without objection.
    [The information of Ms. Omar follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Ms. Omar. Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Omar follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Mackenzie. Pursuant to Committee Rule 8(c), all 
members who wish to insert written statements into the record 
may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk 
electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 p.m., 14 days 
after this hearing. Without objection, the hearing record will 
remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other 
extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted 
for the official hearing record.
    Now, to the introduction of our witnesses for today. Our 
first witness is Mr. Chris Williams, the Executive Director for 
the Voluntary Protection Programs Participants' Association in 
Falls Church, Virginia.
    Our second witness is Mr. Myron Harper, the National Health 
and Safety Director for Cintas Corporation in Indianapolis, 
Indiana. Our third witness is Ms. Rebecca Reindel, the Safety 
and Health Director at the AFLCIO in Washington, DC. Our final 
witness is Mr. Kevin Sell, Senior Director for Corporate 
Development at Kwest Group in Alexandria, Kentucky. Mr. Sell is 
testifying on behalf of the Associated Builders and 
Contractors.
    We want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today, 
and we look forward to hearing each of your testimony. Pursuant 
to Committee Rules, I will ask that each of you limit your oral 
testimony to a 3-minute summary of the written testimony that 
you have provided as Committee members have many questions to 
ask for you.
    The clock will count down from 3 minutes. Pursuant to 
Committee Rule 8(d), the Committee practice, however, is that 
we will not cutoff your testimony until you reach the 5-minute 
mark. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of 
their responsibility to provide accurate information to the 
Subcommittee, and with that I will recognize our first witness 
today, Mr. Williams. You are recognized for your testimony.

STATEMENT OF MR. CHRIS WILLIAMS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, VOLUNTARY 
 PROTECTION PROGRAMS PARTICIPANTS' ASSOCIATION, FALLS CHURCH, 
                            VIRGINIA

    Mr. Williams. Chairman Mackenzie, Chairman Walberg, Ranking 
Member Omar, and members of the Subcommittee, I thank you for 
the opportunity to testify in support of OSHA's compliance 
assistance programs.
    My name is Chris Williams, and I serve as the Executive 
Director of the Voluntary Protection Programs Participants' 
Association. For 40 years, VPPPA has represented cites and 
companies involved in VPP.
    Our more than 1,400 members represent every industry, and 
collectively represent nearly 300,000 workers, union and non-
union. More than half of VPPPA's members occur at VPP cites, 
along with the nearly 1,900 sites across the country share in 
our mission to raise the standard for workplace health and 
safety excellence.
    VPP is a program founded on collaboration. In 1979, the 
California Building Trades Council, a National Constructors 
Association and Cal/OSHA came together to develop the 
Cooperative Self Inspection Program. It was aimed at preventing 
injuries and illnesses during construction of the San Onofre 
Nuclear Power Plant. Led by labor, and with a full management 
buy-in, and oversight by Cal/OSHA, this resulted in levels of 
cooperation previously unseen and laid the foundation for the 
program that we see today.
    OSHA's VPP has maintained this bedrock commitment to 
employee involvement, management commitment, and regulatory 
oversight, working together to foster a culture of continuous 
improvement. The proof is in the numbers. According to OSHA 
data, VPP sites maintain an average injury and illness rate 53 
percent below BLS industry averages.
    To put that in perspective, the average American workplace 
sees nearly three injured workers per 100 fulltime employees. 
For VPP sites, that number is closer to one, and that is the 
one too many because VPP fosters a culture where safety is the 
core value on which every decision is made. It is why VPP works 
and saves.
    VPP's impact goes beyond participants. It is felt across 
the more than 10 million workplaces in the United States 
through countless process innovations and best practices. It's 
felt by OSHA, through the Special Government Employee program, 
with VPP companies committing their own personal and resources 
to work alongside OSHA developing new ideas that are routinely 
adopted and improved.
    Simply put, VPP is a shining example of what labor, 
management, and government can do when working together toward 
a shared vision of what can be, yet VPP remains a discretionary 
program, it can be eliminated at any time for any reason by any 
party. Make no mistake, it has been under threat before.
    That is why we are pleased to see the introduction of H.R. 
2844, the Michael Enzi Voluntary Protection Program Act. This 
bill's aim is simple, to make VPP a permanent program within 
OSHA, require that a percentage of OSHA's budget bet set aside 
to fund VPP, and to create a pathway for every American 
workplace to reach VPP level performance.
    VPP enjoys broad support, democrats and republicans, 
management and labor. In fact, VPP was built by labor, nearly 
500 locals or signatories to VPP agreements, among them were 
the 380 AFL-CIO affiliated unions. VPP is the gold standard of 
safety and health management systems, and the only one 
available free to every workplace willing to commit to, and 
abide by, its stringent ongoing requirements.
    Participants know that protecting workers is not 
proprietary. It is not a union or non-union issue. It is about 
sending our loved ones home in the same or better condition 
than which they arrived every day. Thank you for your time, and 
I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Williams follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you, Mr. Williams. Next, we have 
Mr. Harper, and I recognize you for your testimony.

   STATEMENT OF MR. MYRON HARPER, NATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY 
      DIRECTOR, CINTAS CORPORATION, INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA

    Mr. Harper. Good morning, Chairman Mackenzie and Ranking 
Member Omar, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for 
holding this hearing, and for the opportunity to testify on the 
importance of the Voluntary Protection Program. My name is 
Myron Harper. I am a Director of Health and Safety for Cintas 
Corporation.
    Cintas is dedicated to helping more than one million 
businesses of all types and sizes across the United States get 
ready to open their doors with confidence by providing a wide 
range of products. Cintas employs approximately 47,000 employee 
partners in our workforce today, and our overarching goal is to 
ensure everyone returns home safely at the end of the day.
    We accomplish this through our Cintas Health and Safety 
Management System, which is modeled after our OSHA Voluntary 
Protection Program. Since the certification of our first site 
in 2010, 139 additional Cintas facilities nationwide have 
achieved VPP Star certification.
    Achieving VPP Star certification is a rigorous process. Our 
locations must show that all employee partners work together to 
prevent workplace injuries and incidents. I also serve as a 
special government employee through OSHA's Voluntary Protection 
Program. As a special government employee, I had the 
opportunity to engage with peers through multiple educational 
opportunities, mentoring, and by participating in onsite 
evaluations.
    Even though OSHA works together with sites to find 
solutions and give feedback, we are held to an even higher 
standard and are still subject to audits and evaluations post-
certification, and this remains critical to the success of this 
program today.
    I would like to thank Congresswoman Diana Harshbarger and 
Congressman Mike Thompson, the bipartisan cosponsors of H.R. 
2844, the Michael Enzi Voluntary Protection Program Act. 
Passage of this legislation would ensure the long-term success 
of this great program in keeping all employees engaged, 
healthy, and safe.
    Thank you again to the Subcommittee for the opportunity to 
testify. I will look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Harper follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next I will recognize Ms. 
Reindel for your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF MS. REBECCA L. REINDEL, SAFETY AND HEALTH 
              DIRECTOR, AFL-CIO, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Ms. Reindel. Good morning, Chairman Mackenzie, Ranking 
Member Omar, and members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to testify today on behalf of the AFL-CIO about 
protecting worker health and safety.
    I want to start by saying that the magnitude of work-
related fatalities, injuries, and illnesses is enormous for 
American workers, and it's totally unacceptable in this 
country. Each year in the U.S., more than 5,000 workers die on 
the job from traumatic injury, and an estimated 135,000 die 
each year from work related disease.
    The families of these workers suffer the consequences, and 
these are devastating, and they are preventable. What we are 
talking about today are not just numbers and goals and 
achievements, they are people's lives.
    The job safety enforcement agency for most work places, 
OSHA, has been starved by budget cuts and hampered by staffing 
reduction, and low penalty structures that keep it from 
carrying out its core responsibilities entrusted to it by 
Congress, even before the Trump administration's recent efforts 
that will reduce these resources even more.
    Between 1991 and 2024, OSHA's budget decreased 8 percent. 
In the last 35 years we have seen a 19 percent reduction in all 
of OSHA's staff, including at headquarters, and with a whopping 
35 percent decrease in enforcement staff alone. Meanwhile, 
employment has grown 43 percent and workplaces have grown 82 
percent.
    Overall, this is a 38 percent reduction in the amount the 
agency has to protect each worker it is responsible for. Now 
only $3.92 for each worker.
    We do a calculation each year in our report on the number 
of years it would take OSHA to inspect each workplace and its 
jurisdiction once, based on its resources. Since 1991, that 
number has gone from once every 84 years to once every 185 
years. Under the President's budget proposal for fiscal 1926, 
that number would be the worst on record, once every 266 years. 
They have proposed to reduce the number of OSHA inspections by 
nearly 30 percent.
    Meanwhile, 8 million public sector workers have no OSHA 
coverage, a number that has increased 10 percent in the last 35 
years.
    All of this means that the budget appropriated by Congress 
is not enough for the agency to carry out even its core 
responsibilities of setting standards and enforcing them. A 
quick reminder, the two duties in the OSH Act are for employers 
that must, one, maintain a workplace free from recognized 
hazards and, two, comply with the standards promulgated by the 
agency. Recent firings of the health and safety agency staff, 
like at NIOSH, and new policies by the Trump administration 
will only make things worse for America's workers.
    Right before the Fourth of July, the administration just 
proposed to rescind and weaken dozens of worker health and 
safety rules, including removing training and medical 
evaluation requirements for PPE to function properly, removing 
employer requirements on reporting illnesses, and removing 
OSHA's general duty to keep workers safe.
    Meanwhile, OSHA has not been able to issue many standards 
in recent years, and when they do it can take up to 20 years to 
get one out the door.
    Compliance assistance has always been part of the OSHA 
model, but compliance assistance is just that, assistance to 
aid employers with understanding and complying with the law. 
OSHA has many compliance assistance programs. Examples are 
resources for businesses to better understand the standards 
they need to follow, guidance on specific hazards and ways to 
correct them, and recommendations on systemic issues to keep 
those hazards corrected. Lower penalties, just like inspection 
exemptions, incentives to under report injuries, and a lack of 
meaningful worker and union participation, all undermine the 
credibility of any voluntary program.
    Resources are not distributed evenly. For years OSHA has 
consistently spent more than ten times the amount of money on 
employer compliance assistance than it has on worker safety and 
health training. Now, the President has proposed to zero out 
worker health and safety training altogether in OSHA's budget. 
OSHA's few resources are not a reason to spend more money on 
the voluntary approaches. Compliance assistance is an important 
part of the OSHA model, but only as an aid to support the 
mandate the agency was given by Congress, not a replacement for 
it.
    Thank you for inviting me to testify, and I would be happy 
to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Reindel follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Last, I will recognize Mr. 
Sell for your testimony.

    STATEMENT OF MR. KEVIN SELL, SENIOR MANAGER, CORPORATE 
         DEVELOPMENT, KWEST GROUP, ALEXANDRIA, KENTUCKY

    Mr. Sell. Thank you, Chairman Mackenzie, Ranking Member 
Omar, and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
invitation to testify this morning and for the opportunity to 
discuss Voluntary Protection Programs, and the future of 
Occupational Safety and Health Administration's compliance 
assistance.
    Again, my name is Kevin Sell, I currently serve as the 
Senior Manager of Corporate Development at Kwest Group. We are 
a 100 percent employee-owned company founded in 2003. Kwest 
Group has grown from its roots in Port Clinton, Ohio to become 
a trusted partner across the United States.
    Today Kwest Group is licensed in nearly 40 states, with 
seven regional offices, and two craft education facilities. 
Today I am testifying on behalf of Associated Builders and 
Contractors, a national trade association with 67 chapters, 
representing more than 23,000 member companies, and millions of 
craft professionals.
    I began my career as a firefighter, and later shift 
commander, and that helped me launch a career in construction. 
Before Kwest Group, I contributed to the significant growth of 
Century Construction and United Group Services through safety 
quality programs and workforce development solutions from 1990 
to 2004.
    I have also held leadership roles on both the Kentucky 
Workers' Compensation Funding Commission, and I chaired the 
Kentucky Occupational Safety Health and Review Commission. 
Aside from my education, I hold several certifications in the 
health and safety field.
    The area offices of OSHA provide employees and employers 
with valuable expertise and support through the compliance 
assistant specialist, and their challenge program that is a 
path to VPP.
    By having a partnership with the area office, you gain non-
enforcement support, so you can work with OSHA to get better 
and reduce risk to your entire team. This is especially 
important for construction as many of us have mobile workforce 
that moves around a lot, and this presents its own set of 
challenges that are far different and more complex than most 
general industry sites.
    In 1999, we met with then Region 5 administration Mike 
Connors, who challenged us to take the ABC's STEP, which is 
Safety Training Evaluation Process and challenge program to a 
construction version of the Voluntary Protection Program, or 
VPP. We started that demonstration program in 2001.
    VPP in every industry allows employers, employees and labor 
to apply for an audit that leads to the VPP designation. Many 
of us call the VPP, OSHA's seal of approval. The VPP makes the 
work environment better, safer, and even supports business 
growth and job security.
    It is also important to note that positions like the 
compliance assistance specialist in VPP allow OSHA to focus on 
the bad employers and use their VPP partners as subject matter 
experts and resources.
    OSHA standards are minimum standards, and it is far better 
for employees to be protected by a VPP employer. It is also 
important to mention a bit more about ABC STEP Program. This 
process gives you a position of where your health and safety 
program is at, and how to get better, based on levels like 
gold, platinum, diamond.
    When I mentor construction companies applying for VPP, I 
always ask them for their STEP level, or have them start this 
process. STEP was a key factor in creating VPP in construction, 
and I still find it of high value to that application process. 
STEP has also evolved to add something of great importance to 
all of us in every industry, and that is mental health and 
suicide prevention.
    Together, with all other aspects, we now focus on total 
human health. I look forward to discussing this important issue 
with the Subcommittee today and hopefully provide insight into 
the successful programs. Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sell follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Under Committee Rule 9, we 
will now ask questions of the witnesses under the 5-minute 
rule, and I will be recognizing myself for the first series of 
questions. Mr. Williams, your written testimony noted that the 
mission of the Voluntary Protection Program is to send workers 
home from work in safe or better condition than when they 
arrived.
    How do OSHA's compliance assistance programs, like VPP, 
complement the enforcement side of OSHA's work in achieving 
this goal?
    Mr. Williams. Thank you for your question. Quite simply, 
VPP is an efficiency tool for OSHA in that it supplements 
personnel from VPP sites in the form of special government 
employees who go out and conduct audits, can review 
applications in some regions, and the like. It does free up 
those resources, potentially for enforcement efforts.
    It also allows VPP itself, the performance of those 
companies and sites in the program. It allows OSHA to focus on, 
as the witness stated, the truly bad actors who for reasons 
incomprehensible to the moral mind, refuse to comply with OSHA 
requirements.
    We know the VPP sites from a performance standpoint are 
well above beyond compliance, and they are well above beyond 
their performance, their peers, so VPP sites also commit to 
that pay it forward model, where their resources, their best 
practices, are openly shared amongst industry, amongst their 
peers, not as proprietary, but in order to help send those 
workers home safe every day.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Well, I appreciate that response, and 
it actually sets up my next question perfectly. Mr. Harper, you 
highlight in your written testimony the opportunities given to 
you as a special government employee, or an SGE. As an SGE you 
are able to offer your knowledge and experience to smaller 
businesses just starting out, and businesses in need of 
strengthening their current safety practices.
    How has your work as an SGE benefited smaller businesses?
    Mr. Harper. With the small businesses, we have been able to 
partner with them through SGE initiatives, through Voluntary 
Protection Program by going out visiting both sites, directly 
partnering with them, sharing those best practices with them, 
as well as inviting them to our sites to partner with them.
    It is a great benefit to those smaller sites, as well as to 
our site to partner with other businesses that may have the 
same issues that we have faced before, and we are able to help 
identify those solutions directly, so there will be businesses 
and community involvement together to send every employee home 
safe and sound.
    Chairman Mackenzie. We appreciate the work you do helping 
small businesses there. I think that is fantastic. How does 
that benefit your organization, Cintas?
    Mr. Harper. With Cintas, especially with the customers that 
we have, we have been able to partner with those small 
businesses to help them with their initiatives and help us as 
far as a company to build that relationship with that site. If 
they continue to build and grow that helps us long run on our 
side as well, but helps us with our knowledge, sharing best 
practices from those sites, and things that we are able to 
benefit-from that with the SGE evaluations and tools that we 
get from those sites.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Fantastic. My final question is for Mr. 
Sell. By having the Voluntary Protection Program in place, OSHA 
gains industry Ambassadors who enthusiastically offer their 
expertise to industry safety efforts, as we just heard. OSHA 
may also exempt VPP sites from programmed inspections, which 
allows the agency to allocate resources toward expanding 
outreach, or when needed, enforcement.
    Having participated in the VPP, can you highlight the 
benefits an employer and its employees receive from the 
program?
    Mr. Sell. Certainly, and thank you for the question, Mr. 
Chairman. As the employer of the group, the company, the 
benefits received is that you are starting that--it is not just 
a partnership. I would argue that it is a relationship, and you 
are in regular communication with your respective area office.
    Getting to know those people and what they do also gives 
you a--more access to standards that are coming out, more 
input. The employees understand that they are working for a 
company and with a company where they are engaged in the 
voluntary protection process, and where they look at OSHA as a 
partner.
    They do not look at them as the occupational police, which 
I am not saying that is not needed, I am just saying in the VPP 
setting, that it is a cooperation, it is engagement, it is 
collaboration with the agency, which is I think we all would 
welcome more collaboration with Federal agencies that actually 
benefit employees.
    Chairman Mackenzie. I appreciate that answer. Thank you. 
With that, I will conclude my questioning, and next I will 
recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Ms. Omar. Ms. Reindel, thank you so much for joining us 
today. Just this week OSHA announced a major policy change 
related to the monetary penalties for workplace safety 
violations. Under current law, what is the maximum penalty OSHA 
can seek for a serious violation?
    Ms. Reindel. Excuse me, the maximum penalty is $16,550, so 
it is roughly $16,000.
    Ms. Omar. What if a worker is killed?
    Ms. Reindel. If a worker is killed, it depends on the type 
of violation. It could also be a maximum of $16,000 if it is a 
serious violation.
    Ms. Omar. Just to be clear, these are only the maximum 
penalties, right?
    Ms. Reindel. These are maximum penalties. They are often 
much, much lower. In our annual report we do look at this, and 
for Federal OSHA the average serious penalty that OSHA issues 
is $4,000 for a serious violation of the OSH Act.
    Ms. Omar. Now, can you briefly tell us what OSHA announced 
this week, and what are the consequences of this decision, and 
will workers' lives be at risk?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. OSHA announced on Monday a new policy 
change related to its penalty structure and related to reducing 
penalties for businesses when they are cited by OSHA. OSHA has 
always, long-term, has had four categories for good faith 
penalty reduction, history (lack of a history of violations), 
penalty reduction, quick-fix penalty reduction, and size-based 
penalty reductions.
    What this policy did here was it changed the criteria, and 
it is letting more employers into the penalty reduction space, 
and that includes large employers, not just small businesses. 
It also increases the penalty reductions to 70 percent, so you 
get fined by OSHA you can have up to a 70 percent penalty 
reduction now, or 80 percent for willful violations.
    If you have not had an inspection in 5 years, you actually 
can have a reduction in penalties. What it used to be was that 
you had to have an inspection in the last 5 years without any 
serious violations in order to achieve that.
    Ms. Omar. Wow. What message does it send when this 
administration is willing to make it cheaper to break the law?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. This new policy just creates incentives 
for employers to take the low road, and to not follow the law. 
If you know that, you know, we already know that OSHA does not 
show up to workplaces because of its resources that it cannot 
make it to so many workplaces every year, and further now we 
know that if they will show up to employers can expect, you 
know, penalties that are much too low to be a deterrent for 
violating our Nation's safety and health laws.
    Ms. Omar. In May, Secretary Chavez-DeRemer told this 
Committee that she would double-down in addressing child labor, 
and yet her Labor Department recently sent a draft rule to OMB 
on child labor, which has not been made public, that may 
actually weaken child labor protections.
    With child labor violations rising across the country, we 
need to make our child labor laws stronger, not weaker. I hope 
everyone here can agree with that because potential rollback is 
very troubling. Ms. Reindel, if this new DOL rule increases 
hours that children can work, or exposes them to more dangerous 
jobs, what exactly is the Trump administration doubling down 
on?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. Yes, we have not seen this rule in full 
yet, but it is by title about hazardous occupations for 
children to work in, so we actually have seen these things 
before in the first Trump administration where they have 
attempted to lower the age that children could work in 
dangerous occupations and having them work at different hours 
for long time periods.
    Right now, for decades our Nation has, you know, prevented 
children from working in certain hazardous occupations. We have 
had many violations of this over the years, and child labor 
violations are a very clear indicator of other health and 
safety violations that are going on in workplaces.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we will go to the 
Chairman of the Full Committee, Mr. Walberg from Michigan.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for 
holding this hearing, and thanks to the panel for being here. 
Mr. Williams, you indicated that in your written testimony that 
an estimated 1,900 worksites participate in the Voluntary 
Protection Program. What percentage of those sites are 
unionsites?
    Mr. Williams. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While there is no 
accurate data put out by OSHA in terms of worksite affiliation, 
labor, non-labor, or union, non-union, in looking through the 
list of unions that are signatories to VPP agreements, and with 
those sites, a conservative estimate would be 15 percent. I 
would put that above 20 percent of VPP sites that are union 
worksites.
    I say that because the data is incomplete to some extent. 
For example, in California, 61 percent of VPP sites are union 
affiliated.
    Mr. Walberg. Okay. What additional requirements are there 
for worksites who are represented by a union and want to join 
VPP, and then if you could also respond what kind of feedback 
have you received from the unions about these sites?
    Mr. Williams. Certainly. Any site that employs union labor 
must have every trade that is represented on that site sign off 
on any VPP agreement. If even one declines, then there is no--
then we do not proceed. The VPP process stops.
    Labor maintains a critical role, and a critical oversight 
role in terms of if at any point labor looks at that VPP 
agreement, looks at that site and says you are not upholding 
your end of the bargain, management. We can withdraw our 
signature, and the site is out of VPP.
    In terms of feedback from local labor affiliates, it has 
been overwhelmingly positive, just simply based on the number 
of local signatories that I cite in my opening statement, but I 
want to give you a statement in their own words. This is from 
Jack Griffith, who works at the Central Plateau Cleanup Company 
out in Richland, Washington.
    He is a member of the Hanford Atomic Metal Trades Council, 
and Local 1951 of the International Association of Machinists 
and Aerospace Workers. He is a full-time union safety 
representative VPP coordinator. He has been involved in VPP for 
almost 30 years now and in his words, and I quote, ``VPP is not 
a flavor of the month program.
    It requires a management commitment with employee 
involvement. Unionized sites must endorse their commitment, or 
the application will not be accepted by OSHA. Attaining VPP 
Star recognition is not easy for companies. They must have 
implemented an effective safety and health management system. 
Fostering a culture of safety and continuous improvement can 
take time.
    I have seen where the safety culture needed to change to 
meet the rigorous requirements of going above and beyond the 
basic OSHA requirements to demonstrate exemplary safety and 
health management systems. On a VPP site, every employee has 
the right to stop work without fear of retaliation when 
identifying anything that was not covered.''
    Mr. Walberg. It is not surprising that he would State that. 
That is just common sense, and what the program is, is a high 
standard program that you have to voluntarily commit to, to 
keep the job. Thank you. Mr. Harper, there is a misguided 
belief that by participating in VPP, employees scoot their 
compliance obligations.
    However, your written testimony states that VPP worksites 
are held to an even higher standard than non-participants 
through the program, audits, and evaluation process. Could you 
briefly explain why that is, and do you believe this high 
standard has had a direct impact on employee recruitment, 
retention, and growth there at Cintas?
    Mr. Harper. Thank you for your question. When it comes to 
the high level of importance for safety at Cintas, and within 
our facilities, partnering with our employees has definitely 
helped to further the importance of safety. When it comes to 
audits that happens with OSHA, we have to make sure that we 
hold to a high standard with the OSHA on an annual basis. We 
have got to submit our records of where we are for continuous 
improvement, and then every so often they have to come back and 
re-reevaluate our site to make sure that we are held to that 
standard.
    In addition, when submitting our applications, we have to 
be lower than the industry average, lower or at the industry 
average based on the BLS rate, and so our incident rates has to 
be below, so they are also looking at our involvement from our 
employees and leaders, as well as our numbers.
    It has definitely helped us with the accountability side, 
as far as having OSHA there to help partner with us, and 
continue our efforts, sending partners home every day safe to 
their families, and so it helps with our programs initially.
    Mr. Walberg. Thank you. Not much time left, but Mr. Sell, 
yes or no, has the participation in VPP and other compliance 
assistance program shifted the culture of your workplace to 
prioritize safety?
    Mr. Sell. Yes, it has.
    Mr. Walberg. That is all I wanted to hear. Thank you. I 
yield back.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Fantastic. Next, we are going to go to 
Mr. Takano from California.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for being here. Ms. Reindel, the National Institutes 
for Occupational Safety and Health, or NIOSH, is the only 
Federal agency that conducts research on workers' safety and 
hazardous health matters.
    As you describe in your testimony, NIOSH researches which 
chemicals could shorten their workers' lifespan, how future 
accidents can be prevented, and the application of life-saving 
interventions that protect workers and employers, among other 
things. Is it true that the staff of NIOSH was gutted this 
week, depriving the agency of enough staff to function?
    Ms. Reindel. Thank you for the question. In the spring, the 
Trump administration fired two-thirds of the staff of NIOSH, 
and even though some of them have been returned, more than a 
third of the agency is still out, and those are people who do 
critical work around researching.
    Mr. Takano. Critical work, these are the trained 
researchers, people with advanced degrees?
    Ms. Reindel. That is right. They are uniquely skilled. This 
is not--this is a small field with a very high level of 
expertise, and a very unique level of expertise to do 
occupational safety and health.
    Mr. Takano. Can you give me a number, an estimated number 
of staff that will be affected?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. We still have more than 400 staff who 
are out of NIOSH, and these are people who do critical mining 
safety and health research, critical research on warehouses, 
and many other, you know, studies and industry partnerships.
    Mr. Takano. What might be the immediate consequences of 
these staff cuts? Do you have some ideas in mind?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. You know, for instance in the mining 
sector at NIOSH, they do long-term studies, but they also do, 
you know, they test explosive environments. They have very, you 
know, critical state-of-the-art facilities where you can test 
explosive environments, for instance, or in mines, prevent roof 
collapses. You also have partnerships with the fishing 
industry, with the construction industry.
    These are a lot of the industries that are still--the 
research is highly impactful, and it is also research that is 
applied, and it is immediate, so it is understanding why 
employers or employees are not adopting safety practices and 
helping them.
    Mr. Takano. Great, thank you. My district contains one of 
the largest logistics hubs in the world. In the Inland Empire, 
more than 200,000 people are employed by the warehousing 
industry. Warehousing work has among the highest rates of 
serious injury of any industry in the country. Workers suffer 
life-long injuries from overexertion and repetitive stress, 
which can permanently destroy an employee's back, wrists, and 
other joints.
    Heavy objects and equipment that mean a collision or a fall 
could be deadly, and that has resulted in hundreds of worker 
fatalities per year. As online shopping booms, so does the 
safety risk associated with that industry. A 2024 Senate report 
indicated that one Amazon Prime Day, just one Prime Day at 
Amazon, led to a rate--a rate of 45 injuries per 100 workers. 
That is nearly a 50 percent injury rate.
    Ms. Reindel, researchers at NIOSH's Western States Division 
were conducting research into making warehouse work safer. 
Their staff was just eliminated. How will cuts at NIOSH affect 
my constituents?
    Ms. Reindel. Absolutely. The Western States Division is a 
smaller office out in the Western states that is incredibly 
efficient, and they affect warehouses because they do important 
work on ergonomics, which you were just talking about, and 
preventing musculoskeletal disorders from repetitive stress 
injuries, and also on fatigue.
    I mean warehouses have extreme issues with workers working 
long hours, fatigue issues, transportation issues related to 
the logistics industry, so we can expect without NIOSH that 
injuries and illnesses will go up, fatalities will go up, and 
this is going to harm generations to come.
    Mr. Takano. I just--we just passed this Big, Ugly Bill, 160 
billion dollars to do immigration enforcement. A budget that is 
bigger than like several defense budgets put together. There is 
a tradeoff here. We are going to eliminate an office, a small 
office, that could make warehouse work safer for my 
constituents, so I am seeing a tradeoff here, Ms. Reindel, and 
I am very, very alarmed by it. I yield back.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we will go to Mr. 
Messmer from Indiana.
    Mr. Messmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for the 
witnesses for being here today, especially my fellow Hoosier, 
Mr. Harper. Mr. Harper, compliance assistance programs are a 
proactive approach that results in reduced costs for both OSHA 
and the participating employers. Can you explain to our 
Subcommittee how these programs reduce costs for both OSHA and 
the employers?
    Mr. Harper. Thank you for your question. With the 
assistance programs, especially with the SGEs, we are able to 
have multiple people go to a site, or partner with other sites, 
versus having one personnel from OSHA in one area, one region, 
supporting thousands of sites. By helping other businesses 
partner with other businesses through VPP has absolutely helped 
partner with other sites, build that relationship, especially 
with the government--special government employee program.
    Mr. Messmer. Thank you. You also ran a successful VPP 
program, and those worksites require buy-in from all parties 
involved. What role does employee involvement play in a 
successful VPP worksite?
    Mr. Harper. Thanks again for your question. With the 
employee involvement one cannot get a VPP site. You cannot go 
through certification without having that involvement, without 
having that engagement from your employes. This is not built 
on--our safety system is not built on one person, but it is all 
the employees at that site, in multiple sites, so that is buy-
in from everyone at that site to get everyone home safe and 
sound.
    That is very important to the success of this program and 
VPP.
    Mr. Messmer. Thank you. OSHA has found significantly lower 
injury and illness rates among the VPP participants. Mr. 
Williams, would you say that that employee buy in creates a 
culture of safety within your organization by being a VPP 
participant?
    Mr. Williams. Absolutely, sir. It is a culture that, as I 
mentioned before, safety is the core value on which every 
decision is made, and where employees, frontline workers, are 
empowered to stop work in that program.
    Mr. Messmer. Thank you. Mr. Williams, critics of VPP will 
claim that by passing H.R. 2844, we will take away from OSHA's 
ability to enforce safety standards, keep workers safe, even 
though legislation dedicates--this legislation dedicates 5 
percent of OSHA's annual funds to continuation of the program. 
What would you say in response to that claim?
    Mr. Williams. I would look at it from the standpoint of VPP 
funding alone, we know that that number is significantly lower. 
It is less than 1 percent of OSHA's overall budget at present. 
That 5 percent number represents growth in the program that we 
know has been successful, and I would relate that as well from 
the standpoint of we look toward what VPP accomplishes in the 
scheme of--we talk about enforcement, enforcement will always 
have a need within OSHA and will always be part of its core 
mission.
    Enforcement results in an inspection that may be on a site 
one, two, 3 days. The other 362 years ago, what compliance 
assistance programs like VPP tackled. It is creating that 
environment, the conditions and the culture at a worksite, so 
that employees are empowered to work safe, empowered to own the 
program, management commits to that, and the regulatory 
oversight as the other witnesses have talked about from their 
personal perspectives, is the fact that there is no self-
evaluation in that audit.
    A VPP site is going to see OSHA on their site every three 
to 5 years. They openly welcome them.
    Mr. Messmer. Okay. Thank you. I yield back the rest of my 
time.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we will go to Ms. 
Stevens from Michigan.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our 
Ranking Member as well, and of course our witnesses. We all 
know that OSHA plays an incredibly vital role in making sure 
Americans across the country are safe at work. As a daughter of 
a small business owner who was a landscaper, and employed a lot 
of people, we know a thing or two about workplace safety in my 
family.
    As someone who has visited over 200 manufacturers in my 
time in Congress, through my Manufacturing Monday Program, I 
see those safety standards in play. I want to focus my 
questions certainly on Michigan, but I also just do not want to 
leave out the assault on our Federal workforce, and decades of 
underfunding at OSHA, that has been mentioned, that leave 
workers more exposed than ever.
    That combined with catastrophic Medicaid cuts in the 
Reconciliation Bill that came down, makes it very difficult for 
workers at this time, and particularly for folks who I hear 
from a lot in Michigan. An AFL-CIO report found that OSHA has 
just $3.92 per worker that it is responsible for protecting, 
and that is down from $6.36 in 1991.
    The number of OSHA inspectors per million workers has 
fallen from 9.7 to 6.1, so Ms. Reindel, you served at OSHA, you 
mentioned that, how does this consistent and worsening under-
resourcing of the agency that leaves workers exposed to 
increased safety risks on the job?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. You know, the--I think in short, just to 
say, that you have the fox guarding the hen house, right? You 
have fewer inspections, fewer presence in the--lesser presence 
in the workplace by OSHA by an independent--by an external 
third party. You also do not have an avenue for workers to 
reach out to an external party. We know there is a lot of fear 
right now in the U.S. generally speaking, and without the 
ability for OSHA to show up and to talk to workers, this has a 
severe, dampening effect on how we actually can measure what is 
going on.
    I also want to say that enforcement has been effectively 
evaluated by many studies to look at OSHA enforcement and OSHA 
standards, and how those have saved lives, and been effective, 
and actually greater than the standards even predict, so we 
have effectiveness of OSHA enforcement that's been shown 
through many, many studies.
    I think a lot of my colleagues are talking about VPP. This 
program still has not been critically evaluated, and where it 
has there have been big problems with those evaluations to show 
that they are actually effective. What we really want to do is, 
you know, make sure employers are following the law.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes, and how about attraction, so when we 
think about growing our manufacturing sector we also need to 
think about the talent that we are bringing in. I am curious if 
we are--when we are ripping away regulatory frameworks, and the 
things that protect people on the job, if it is going to make 
it easier or harder to attract the talent?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. I know there is definitely an emphasis 
on domestic manufacturing, but how do you do that if workplaces 
are not safe? I think that, you know, we have also heard today 
about OSHA being a critical part of the VPP Program. I will say 
there are a lot of onsite consultation programs and industry 
partnerships and resources, and compliance assistance are all 
very important, but OSHA and VPP actually does not do audits, 
until once every three to 5 years, so that is a long time.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes. One other quick one as well, when you 
talk about the valuable role that NIOSH plays in keeping 
workers safe, and what American workers will miss out on, how 
does this upheaval affect that?
    Ms. Reindel. NIOSH is really our major--our only source in 
the government for critical research on health and safety 
issues. It also already has a lot of industry partnerships, a 
lot of academic partnerships, real implementation on the ground 
of preventing workplace injuries and illnesses practically in 
real time, and also conducting surveillance, so we actually 
know what is going on in workplaces throughout the states.
    Ms. Stevens. Well, thank you so much, and I yield back my 
time.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we are going to go to 
Mr. Fine from Florida.
    Mr. Fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of 
you for being here to talk about this important topic. 
Obviously, we want to make sure that all of our workers are 
safe and do not get injured, or even worse, get killed. I have 
a couple questions. I am going to start with Mr. Sell.
    The argument in favor of compliance assistance programs is 
that it reduces costs by seeking to prevent injuries and 
accidents, as opposed to dealing with them afterwards. There 
may also be additional cost savings as well, and that is where 
I am. How can we do things cheaper.
    How do OSHA's compliance assistance programs reduce the 
compliance burden for employers?
    Mr. Sell. That is a great question. Thank you for that. The 
compliance assistance specialist acting in a non-enforcement 
capacity can actually work with every employer. It really 
benefits small employers that do not have those types of 
resources, but every employer is entitled to that service.
    Whether it is program development risk assessment or just 
trying to figure it out what is the best way to protect your 
employees from a particular risk. That is where they come into 
play. That is where they have the expertise. Where they save 
money, quite frankly to a business, is the output of that.
    If they are helping the employer on the front end, then 
there is no risk, or there is reduced risk on the back end. You 
also see that come through, at least in my opinion, you have a 
greater reduction to capacity of your worker's comp insurance, 
which is based on hours worked.
    Your general liability goes down, so the company becomes 
better financially because that compliance assistance 
specialist in fact is saving them money. They also, if they are 
working in that partnership, and this is an indirect output, 
employers want employees to work for them, and employees, 
especially, America's workers, want to work for employers of 
choice.
    They want to go somewhere where they are protected and 
treated well, and a compliance assistance specialist helps that 
because they see them there, and they know the employer cares.
    Mr. Fine. Okay. Well, thank you for that. My next question 
is for Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams, your written testimony 
expresses support for H.R. 2844, the Michael Enzi Voluntary 
Protection Program Act. This bill would require OSHA to 
dedicate 5 percent of its annual budget to funding the VPP.
    A version of this bill has been introduced in previous 
Congresses, long before I got here, but so that is why I want 
to know. What were past concerns with this legislation, and how 
does H.R. 2844 address those concerns?
    Mr. Williams. Thank you for the question. I will touch on a 
couple potential issues that may have been stumbling blocks in 
previous sessions. First and foremost is that it is in the 
language from a funding standpoint in previous versions, the 
legislation would have been considered open ended.
    I think there is some concern from both parties that it was 
a blank check, and carte blanche from the Secretary of Labor, 
whoever that may be at any given time to fund as much or as 
little or VPP like systems. I think that 5 percent rider 
addresses that, whether OSHA's budget is 500 million or 50 
million, it would still be 5 percent of the amount.
    Second, would be that I think in looking from the 
standpoint we talked of that budget number, and if there has 
also been a misconception that the program is pro one party or 
the other, pro-labor, pro non-labor and non-union. I think this 
legislation in the past has suffered from that misconception 
that one side or the other supports it.
    It is a bill for everyone. It is a bill that has had 
bipartisan support in previous sessions, including this one. It 
is a simple piece of legislation. It aims to make a program 
that has been so successful reducing workplace injury and 
illnesses, and engaging employees in workplace safety and 
health. It simply makes it better. I think there has been a 
little bit of misconception from the standpoint of one side, or 
the other is going to get a victory here.
    This is a victory for all of American workers.
    Mr. Fine. Thank you. Thank you all for being here, and that 
answers my questions. I yield back Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we will go to the 
Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Scott from Virginia.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Reindel, 
the Department of Labor released dozens of new rule notices, 
which reverse worker protections. Can you describe and comment 
on some of those initiatives?
    Ms. Reindel. Sure. Thank you for the question. I am happy 
to just--I mentioned in my testimony just before the Fourth of 
July, dozens of these rules--actions, I should say, were 
issued.
    Many are proposals, and there are, you know, most of them 
are attempts to weaken existing safety and health protections, 
and also to roll back some altogether, so very basic, but very 
important items like adequate lighting in workplaces, or using, 
you know, safety colors to detect, you know, caution, you know, 
very important things.
    There are--there is a proposal to remove OSHA's general 
duty protections to certain occupations because they are 
``inherently risky,'' and we see this as problematic, and 
really a problem for many workers across the U.S., not just the 
occupations that they named in the proposal, but setting a 
precedent for doing that going forward, and thinking that, you 
know, employees somehow should assume the risk in their 
workplaces. That is where employers should be controlling 
hazards.
    One other area is going after the respiratory protection 
requirements, and we know that in order for respirators and 
other PPE to work properly in workplaces, and protect workers, 
it must fit, and we must medically evaluate people in order to 
ensure that they are safe when they are wearing those 
protections.
    Mr. Scott. Are independent contractors covered by OSHA?
    Ms. Reindel. Independent contractors are not covered.
    Mr. Scott. You responded to a question about the relatively 
low penalties to businesses. Usually, accountability can be 
achieved by lawsuits, but if an employee is covered by OSHA, 
covered by workers' comp, is it true they cannot sue for 
negligence?
    Ms. Reindel. Yes, under OSHA law there is no private right 
of action. Workers do not have other recourse.
    Mr. Scott. In the voluntary plans, what should we look for 
to ensure that the plans are actually working as intended?
    Ms. Reindel. Right. These voluntary--so, I will just say 
the compliance assistance has many types of programs at OSHA. I 
know we are talking a lot about VPP today, and that is just one 
of the programs. Onsite consultation is already a program that 
exists for small businesses, and that is a free and a 
confidential service that OSHA already offers to small 
businesses.
    VPP tends to benefit large corporations. Those are 
employers that are already paying attention to safety because 
they have to do that in order to get into the program. They 
have to have low injury and illness rates to maintain to stay 
in their program, and where we have seen pressure to maintain 
low injury and illness rates, we also see policies and pressure 
for workers to not raise and report injuries and illnesses.
    There is also a significant problem of every VPP employer 
having inspection exemptions, so for voluntary programs we 
should not be exempting OSHA from having inspections. It is 
sort of a backward way of thinking. If you are doing your best, 
and you are having the best employers who should be going above 
and beyond OSHA standards, they should pass inspections without 
problem, but we do have--we have seen many willful violations 
and fatalities at VPP sites-.
    I am not saying all, and I am not saying that there are 
not, you know, good VPP programs in some workplaces with some 
employers, but the problem systematically, or the program 
systematically has problems.
    Mr. Scott. Mr. Williams, how can we be confident that 
violations are actually reported, and can that be legally 
enforced?
    Mr. Williams. Absolutely Mr. Scott, I would address the 
concern about the program inspection exemption with this. VPP 
does not exempt sites, the program does not exempt sites from 
inspections for imminent dangers, from whistleblower actions, 
so VPP sites are still required, and are still subject to those 
inspections.
    From a validation standpoint, I would also like to mention 
that VPP--the GAO, issued a report in 2009 that offered up 
recommendations to improve the program from an internal 
standpoint at OSHA.
    I do want to thank previous Secretary of Labor Dr. Michaels 
and Assistant Secretary Jordan Barab, because under their watch 
they implemented the changes that GAO recommended to improve 
and strengthen the program, and so I want to thank them for 
their support of VPP, and also for making the program better 
and validating that it is successful.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. Next, we will go to Mr. 
Grothman from Wisconsin.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Give Andrew your expertise. In 
your written testimony, you say at the 150 Cintas sites are 
currently participating in the Voluntary Protection Program, 
making you the largest VPP participant by total number of 
worksites. Can you share any data or success stories showing 
how VPP has helped reduce injuries?
    Mr. Harper. Yes, sir. Thank you for your question. The VPP 
Program has tremendously helped Cintas in improving their 
employee engagement, their culture, and making sure everyone 
returns home safe at the end of the day.
    Building more of a great system that we have, our health 
and safety management system together, not just with one 
person, or one department, but with all employees there reduced 
our instant rates, as well as helped with partnering with other 
businesses outside of Cintas to help with our best practice of 
being able to implement within our four walls.
    It is rare that the answer is found just within our four 
walls, so partnering with other successful companies with great 
management systems has been a benefit for us.
    Mr. Grothman. Oh, just a plus, plus, plus. Okay. Mr. Sell, 
do you have anything to add to that or your experience?
    Mr. Sell. Well, certainly from the construction application 
since 2001 it has been extremely helpful because you know in 
construction we have our own set of issues, so it has addressed 
a lot of issues that we have had over the years with respect to 
working with OSHA. It has always been our desire to do that, 
and VPP has enabled that.
    I would like to add just kind of off topic for a second, we 
were talking about compliance assistance specialists, and I 
think it is good to know if just using Region 5, there is only 
four compliance assistance specialists, one in Ohio, three in 
Illinois, which also means none in Wisconsin, and I wish Ms. 
Stevens would still be here. It means there is none in Michigan 
either.
    There is a severe lack of that that we are not reaching out 
and partnering with employees, employers. Thank you.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. I guess you kind of brought this up, 
but I will followup with a question anyway. How could OSHA 
better support industry-led safety initiatives and 
partnerships, rather than pursuing policies that appear more 
focused on headlines than really improving safety?
    Mr. Sell. Well, that is a great question, and it seems to 
be the hot topic currently. Clearly----
    Mr. Grothman. New day, new day.
    Mr. Sell. Love it. Certainly the 5 percent funding of 
Voluntary Protection Programs will be a step in the right 
direction, as well as getting these area offices their 
compliance assistance specialists back, so they can work with 
the people that want to improve health and safety in the lives 
of their workers and enable the businesses to grow.
    You know, we are all trying to grow in a way that is 
healthy, safe and smart, to provide workers, you know, a 
quality of life, and to provide this great country with a 
future.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. Mr. Williams, I will finish up with 
you. Could you tell us how VPP helps your business improve 
safety without the threat of penalties or adversarial 
enforcement?
    Mr. Williams. I can certainly speak from the perspective of 
our 1,400 members of which more than half are current VPP 
sites. It is quite frankly a culture change. I come from a 
construction background, a construction kid, grew up with the 
industry, and my dad was a contractor.
    I have seen firsthand 30-40 years ago, when I was much 
younger and not gray, what safety culture was back in--I will 
call them the old days, the bad, old days. What VPP has from an 
effect standpoint is increased that T change in culture, where 
we move from there's acceptable risks to, we will not perform a 
task if it is not completely safe.
    We will work with our employees. We will ask our frontline 
workers what they need to function safely, to go home at the 
end of the day in the same or better condition in which they 
arrived. That culture change is a direct result of VPP, and the 
stringent requirements not just from the application and 
certification process, but every year at the annual self-
evaluation.
    Every three to 5 years, with that audit when OSHA comes on 
that site with their SGEs, and they will pick apart that site, 
and our VPP sites, our members welcome that, they want that 
because that is an outside third-party audit that they are 
going to gain a better perspective than what they see on their 
own.
    There is that compliance portion of it, and the direct 
positive effect, not just from a business standpoint because 
safety pays, VPP works and saves, but also from an employee 
morale standpoint, and an employee well-being standpoint.
    Mr. Grothman. Can you give us an example of some of the 
negative grandstanding that you may have gotten in the past 
from OSHA, or that you are familiar with?
    Mr. Williams. I can tell you that there has been threats to 
the program from the standpoint of--it is usually from the 
enforcement. As I said earlier before, enforcement is always 
going to be a core function for the Occupational Safety and 
Health Administration. When you look at enforcement, and 
comments here today we have heard some of them.
    Enforcement inspections are similar to a speeding ticket. 
Police officer pulls you over, gives you the ticket, you go on 
your way. The short-term impact is very positive. You are most 
likely going to get a good look at--you are not going to speed, 
but over time you regress to going back over the speed limit, 
you are creating that hazard.
    Compliance assistance, education, from a speeding ticket 
standpoint going to a driver's ed course or remedial course to 
talk about the impact that someone speeding has on a victim of 
an accident that is caused by speeding, for example. The 
similar comparison with VPP compliance assistance. Compliance 
assistance goes over those other 363 days when the Inspector is 
not onsite and helps make that site safer.
    It is that long-term education and value component that 
prevents that fatality, prevents that catastrophic injury.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. Thank you.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. That concludes questioning 
from members, and I want to thank all the members for 
participating today. With that, we are going to go to closing 
remarks, and I would like to recognize the Ranking Member for 
her closing statement.
    Ms. Omar. Thank you Chairman and thank you once again to 
all of our witnesses for speaking with us today. Today's 
discussion has made one thing abundantly clear. The future of 
workplace safety depends not on weakening protections, but on 
strengthening partnerships between OSHA, employers, and 
workers.
    Compliance assistance should be about empowering everyone 
to work together to identify hazards before they cause harm and 
not about providing loopholes that allow dangerous conditions 
to persist. We have seen--what we have seen from the Trump 
administration is a systematic effort to deregulate, defund and 
dismantle the very institutions that keep workers safe.
    The human cost of this deregulatory agenda will be 
devastating. From slashing capacity at NIOSH, to gutting OSHA 
enforcement, to zeroing out the Chemical Safety Board, this 
administration's reckless decisions would lead to more deaths, 
more injuries, and more families broken by preventable 
tragedies.
    We need strong enforceable standards, not voluntary 
programs that lack accountability or budget and staffing cuts 
that risk more worker lives. Good employers understand that 
safety is both a moral duty, and an essential for business 
success.
    The bills introduced by Ranking Member Scott, myself, and 
some of my other colleagues, like the Protecting American 
Workers Act, and the Heat Illness Prevention Act, offer 
practical solutions to close coverage gaps and strengthen 
enforcement, and address deadly risks like heat stress.
    As we conclude, I urge all members of this Committee to 
remember the stakes. Every regulation we weaken, every resource 
we cut, means more workers at risk of injury or death. Every 
worker deserves to return home safe and healthy, regardless of 
the industry or job.
    Let us commit to building safer workplace through robust 
standards, effective enforcement, and stronger partnerships, 
because no worker's life should ever be threatened as 
expendable. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairman Mackenzie. Thank you. I would like to thank all of 
our witnesses for joining us here today for this important 
conversation about ways that we can keep workers safe in their 
workplaces. Voluntarily Protection Programs can be one 
important component of workplace safety, and we heard in the 
testimony today about how we can actually prevent accidents 
before they occur by creating that culture for safety that 
exists throughout the entire year for workers, not just a 
snapshot in time when an enforcement official shows up for OSHA 
for a day or 2 days, and they get to see and experience what is 
going on in that workplace.
    I think again, we all want to have that preventative 
maintenance going on, that preventative safety, and I think 
Voluntary Protection Programs help aid and assist workers in 
having that culture of safety in their workplaces. We also had 
a broader discussion about the reforms that are going on at the 
Department of Labor.
    I think they are critically important because I think we 
saw during the last administration, the absolute failings of 
the Biden administration and democrats to hold them accountable 
for workplace safety. We saw that during the last 
administration in the spike of child labor violations that went 
on around this country, 100fold increases, multiple 100fold 
increases in child violations.
    All the regulations that they want to talk about, all the 
people that were at the Department of Labor during the last 
administration, they did nothing to keep children in this 
country safe. Absolutely nothing. To sit here and say that we 
need no reforms and no changes is absolutely absurd.
    We want to work hand in hand with the Trump administration 
to make sure that we are keeping workers safe in all 
environments, and that is what we are going to do. The 
administration is making critical reforms that are so 
important, and we are going to work with them as a legislative 
body to make sure that workers across this country are kept 
safe.
    Again, I cannot believe that we sit here and hear from the 
other side about how they want to keep workers safe in this 
country when they did nothing for years to keep those children 
safe in their workplaces. Absolutely nothing. That is an 
outrage, and it should be on the record that they did nothing. 
They said nothing, and now they want to sit here and try to 
take the moral high ground for workers.
    Absolutely absurd. With that, I would again like to thank 
our witnesses for being here today, I look forward to working 
with all of you, and everybody across the aisle in a bipartisan 
fashion, to find ways that we can keep workers safe in this 
country, whether it is in a voluntary fashion, or in a 
regulatory fashion. We all share that same goal, and I want to 
thank you again for being here. With that, this meeting is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:29 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
    [Additional submissions from Chairman Mackenzie follows:]
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