[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION:
                  DEVELOPING THE FUTURE OF MAIN STREET 
                               SUCCESS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                           FEBRUARY 24, 2026

                               __________

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                               

            Small Business Committee Document Number 119-031
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
                               __________
                               
                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
63-057                       WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================             
            
                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri
                         NICK LALOTA, New York
                        BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota
                          TONY WIED, Wisconsin
                      ROB BRESNAHAN, Pennsylvania
                          BRIAN JACK, Georgia
                         TROY DOWNING, Montana
             KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern Marina Islands
                         DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
                        JIMMY PATRONIS, Florida
               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
                      LAMONICA MCIVER, New Jersey
                        GIL CISNEROS, California
                       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
                        GEORGE LATIMER, New York
                         DEREK TRAN, California
                       LATEEFAH SIMON, California
                       JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
                    MAGGIE GOODLANDER, New Hampshire

                 Lauren Holmes, Majority Staff Director
                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Roger Williams..............................................     1
Hon. Derek Tran..................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Dr. Keith E. Gunuskey, Superintendent of Schools, Wallenpaupack 
  Area School District, Honesdale, PA............................     6
Mr. Mike Gibson, Executive Vice President, Associated General 
  Contractors (AGC) of Kansas, Wichita, KS.......................     8
Dr. Nikki Nix, Chief Academic Officer, Godley Independent School 
  District, Godley, TX...........................................    10
Mr. Zach Boren, Senior Vice President, Apprenticeships for 
  America, Washington, DC........................................    11

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Dr. Keith E. Gunuskey, Superintendent of Schools, 
      Wallenpaupack Area School District, Honesdale, PA..........    40
    Mr. Mike Gibson, Executive Vice President, Associated General 
      Contractors (AGC) of Kansas, Wichita, KS...................    44
    Dr. Nikki Nix, Chief Academic Officer, Godley Independent 
      School District, Godley, TX................................    48
    Mr. Zach Boren, Senior Vice President, Apprenticeships for 
      America, Washington, DC....................................    57
Questions for the Record:
    None.
Answers for the Record:
    None.
Additional Material for the Record:
    Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC)....................    67
    Greenhut Construction Company, Inc...........................    69
    National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA)..............    71
    Central Midwest Regional Council of Carpenters (CMRCC) and 
      the Indiana-Kentucky-Ohio Joint Apprenticeship Training 
      Fund (IKORCC JATF).........................................    73
    Hon. Lateefah Simon letter...................................    76
    International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) Local 
      Union 369 letter...........................................    78

 
                    CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION:
              DEVELOPING THE FUTURE OF MAIN STREET SUCCESS

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2026

                  House of Representatives,
               Committee on Small Business,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:01 a.m., in Room 
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams 
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Van 
Duyne, Finstad, Wied, Bresnahan, Jack, Downing, Schmidt, 
McIver, Cisneros, Morrison, Tran, Olszewski, and Goodlander.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I want to welcome everybody to the 
hearing today.
    The first thing I want to say is that I want to 
congratulate Congressman Stauber from the great State of 
Minnesota, a former Olympic hockey player. And the hockey USA 
team, we know, won the gold medal.
    I want to say congratulations to you and your sport.
    Mr. STAUBER. Yes.
    [Applause.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. And before we get started, I would like 
to recognize Congressman Schmidt from the great State of Kansas 
to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance and the prayer.
    Please stand.
    Mr. SCHMIDT. Will you join me in prayer?
    Heavenly Father, thank you for this opportunity to come 
together today, for bringing us all safely here. And please 
keep watching over those who are traveling in and traveling 
around our country in this time of difficult weather.
    Give us the courage, the wisdom, and the fortitude to come 
together and lead this great country as you would see fit.
    In the name of your son, Jesus Christ, amen.
    Please join me for the pledge.
    I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of 
America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, 
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I want to say good morning to everyone. 
I want to call the Committee on Small Business to order.
    And, without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare 
a recess of the Committee at any time.
    I want to now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    And I want to say welcome to today's hearing, ``Career and 
Technical Education: Developing the Future of Main Street 
Success.''
    First, I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today 
during the National Career and Technical Education Month.
    Thank you all for being here.
    And career and technical education programs, also known as 
CTE programs, play a vital role in society that is all too 
often overlooked.
    Today, the Committee will focus on several issues holding 
Main Street America back. There is no denying that small 
businesses across the nation are facing a shortage of skilled 
American workers. Millions of trade jobs remain unfilled, and 
this crisis is compounded as baby boomers retire in record 
numbers.
    The shortage is even worse in rural communities, like those 
I represent in Texas, where employers face additional barriers 
to finding qualified workers. And I hear from people back home 
every day that we need more plumbers, we need more welders, we 
need carpenters, we need nurses, we need mechanics.
    Yet where there is a crisis, there is also an opportunity. 
CTE programs have proven to provide students with effective 
pathways to high-wage, high-demand careers.
    President Trump and his administration have made workforce 
development a priority to address the growing demand for 
skilled workers in skilled trades.
    The Working Families Tax Cut Act created Workforce Pell 
Grants to cover the costs of short-term credential programs, 
not just traditional college degrees.
    In addition to the SBA's workforce development resources, 
the Department of Labor announced a $145 million investment 
opportunity on January 6, 2026, to support the national 
apprenticeship program and system.
    Earlier this Congress, the House passed my bill, H.R. 1642, 
the Connecting Small Businesses with Career and Technical 
Education Graduates Act. And this bill requires Small Business 
Development Centers and Women's Business Centers to provide 
educational resources to small businesses on hiring CTE program 
graduates.
    Now, I would like to once again thank my colleagues for 
their bipartisan support of this measure, and I look forward to 
hearing more today about additional actions this Committee can 
take to strengthen the pipeline to high-demand jobs and help 
address our nation's workforce shortage crisis.
    I want to thank our panel, again, of witnesses for taking 
the time from your home to participate in this important 
hearing, and we look forward to your testimony today.
    I now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member, 
Representative Tran from the great State of California, for his 
opening remarks.
    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this 
hearing on one of the most pressing issues facing small 
businesses--a shortage of workers with needed skill sets.
    The American workforce is facing a series of compounding 
crises. An aging population means millions of baby boomers are 
soon retiring. Aggressive immigration enforcement is removing 
capable and law-abiding workers from the labor pool. And 
artificial intelligence is rapidly reshaping which skills are 
valuable. Investing thoughtfully in workplace development is 
more urgent than ever.
    These workforce shortages are hitting hardest in the 
sectors where affordability has become a defining challenge for 
young Americans. In healthcare, we will be short over 267,000 
registered nurses by 2028. In housing, we already lack as many 
as half a million builders, contractors, and construction 
managers. And as we attempt to reshore critical manufacturing, 
we lack the electricians, welders, and the advanced 
manufacturing workforce to make it a reality.
    The trend is clear: Traditional education pathways are 
failing workers and employers. Revamping career and technical 
education, or CTE, is a promising solution that builds on a 
system that has existed for decades. It is already widely 
present in high schools, and students who concentrate in it see 
successful outcomes.
    Despite this success, it has long been underfunded. 
Adjusted for inflation, it has been cut by more than 50 percent 
since 1980. Over the past two decades, high school enrollment 
has flattened, while post-secondary enrollment has dropped by 
25 percent. Bolstering these budgets is a worthwhile 
investment.
    Conversely, registered apprenticeships have become one of 
the fastest-growing CTE strategies, with the number of 
apprentices doubling over the past decade. By combining 
classroom education with paid on-the-job training, they provide 
a direct pipeline into a job. Ninety-four percent of 
apprentices retain employment after completion, with an average 
starting salary of $80,000.
    They don't just benefit workers; they benefit businesses as 
well. By strengthening retention and growing the labor pool, 
they provide a proven return on investment.
    Despite the benefits, small businesses face significant 
barriers to participation. The registration process is time-
consuming and complex, making it difficult for resource-
constrained small employers. Promising solutions like 
apprenticeship intermediaries and consortiums give us an 
opportunity to reduce that burden. These models remove much of 
the administrative work for small businesses and allow them to 
partner together to address shortages.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how 
strengthening CTE and apprenticeships can relieve our workforce 
shortages, bolster small-business growth, and make life more 
affordable for the American people.
    Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I will now turn to witness introductions and recognize Mr. 
Bresnahan from the great State of Pennsylvania to introduce his 
constituent testifying here today.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I am proud to introduce our first witness today, 
northeastern Pennsylvania's very own Dr. Keith Gunuskey.
    Dr. Gunuskey currently serves as superintendent of the 
Wallenpaupack Area School District. He brings more than 24 
years of experience in education, having served students in a 
range of roles, including special education teacher, assistant 
principal, principal, and assistant superintendent.
    Dr. Gunuskey has been a strong advocate for expanding 
student access to career and technical education, helping 
ensure his students can pursue good-paying technical careers 
after graduation in fields like aviation, construction, 
culinary arts, and more. And they have a real-life 737 
simulator.
    In Pennsylvania, career and technical centers allow school 
districts within a region to share high-quality facilities and 
equipment, partner with local employers, and provide students 
with hands-on training that aligns with local workforce needs. 
Yet Wayne and Pike Counties in my district remain the only two 
counties in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania without access to 
a CTC.
    That is finally being fixed, as the Wallenpaupack School 
District, alongside neighboring school districts, is stepping 
up to fill this gap. I am proud to work with Dr. Gunuskey to 
make sure this project becomes a reality for the students and 
families in Wayne and Pike.
    Beyond his professional duties, he is actively involved in 
his community, serving on the Wayne County YMCA Board and the 
Wayne Memorial Hospital Advisory Committee and volunteering for 
more than 30 years as a firefighter.
    Dr. Gunuskey earned his Doctorate of Education in 
leadership studies, with a concentration of disaster 
preparedness and emergency management from Louisiana State 
University Shreveport.
    And thank you for joining us today, taking time out of the 
busy day up in northeastern Pennsylvania. And I am looking 
forward to our meaningful conversation.
    I yield.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I would like to now recognize Congressman Schmidt from 
the great State of Kansas to introduce his constituent 
testifying here today.
    Mr. SCHMIDT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much 
for convening this hearing today, and we appreciate your having 
a Kansan on the panel.
    It is my pleasure to introduce Mike Gibson. Mr. Gibson is 
the executive vice president of the Associated General 
Contractors of Kansas.
    The AGC of Kansas often bills itself as the Chamber of 
Commerce for the construction industry in Kansas, representing 
over 300 Kansas general contractors, subcontractors, and 
professional service firms and their 20,000 employees. It is 
headquartered in Wichita, but we forgive that because they have 
their legislative affairs shop in Topeka.
    Before this role, Mike was involved in similar workforce 
development roles with the industry in New Mexico, Louisiana, 
and Houston, Texas. He has served on the Board of Directors for 
the National Center for Construction Education and Research and 
currently serves on that organization's Workforce Development 
Committee.
    He is here today to talk with us about the Build Up Kansas 
program. Each of our colleagues has a pamphlet on their desk. 
And I would just characterize it this way: This is an industry- 
and employer-driven effort to connect all of the parts that are 
producing plumbers and construction workers and electricians, 
so that the pipeline is feeding the actual jobs that are needed 
and fit in the local dynamics in every community around the 
State. It is a terrific initiative.
    I would just finally say, Mr. Chairman, Mike attended Texas 
Tech, which we forgive him for. But he is married to his wife, 
Rachal, for which we are grateful he brought her today.
    Rachal, wave for everybody.
    And, Mr. Chairman, thanks for having this hearing.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back. And you are 
right on Texas Tech.
    Mr. GIBSON. Don't hold that against me.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Our next witness today is Dr. Nikki Nix, 
one of my constituents, from the great State of Texas and the 
great city of Godley, Texas.
    Dr. Nix serves as chief academic officer for the Godley 
Independent School District in Godley, Texas. And Dr. Nix has 
worked for nearly 20 years in public education, serving as a 
teacher, dual enrollment instructor, academic advisor, director 
of career and technical education, and as chief readiness 
officer.
    She has served on district committees and advisory boards, 
including the Godley Chamber of Commerce Board of Directors.
    Dr. Nix holds a Bachelor of Business Administration from 
Midwestern State University, a Master of Education from Lamar 
University, and a Doctorate in Education from Arkansas State 
University.
    She is a respected leader in our district, and we 
appreciate her being here today.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member from the great State of 
California, Mr. Tran, to briefly introduce our last witness 
appearing before us today.
    Mr. TRAN. I got the pleasure of introducing Mr. Zach Boren, 
who is a senior vice president of Apprenticeships for America, 
where he leads national efforts to expand and modernize 
registered apprenticeships across the United States.
    With nearly two decades of experience in apprenticeship and 
workforce policy, he previously directed federally and 
privately funded apprenticeship initiatives at the Urban 
Institute and served as Director of Registered Apprenticeship 
and Policy at the U.S. Department of Labor.
    His work has been featured in multiple publications, 
including U.S. News & World Report, NBC News, the Pittsburgh 
Post-Gazette, Washington Monthly, and Real Clear Politics.
    Thank you, Mr. Boren, and I look forward to your testimony. 
And welcome to your family as well.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I want to say thank you again to all of the witnesses. 
We appreciate you being here today.
    Now, before recognizing the witnesses, I would like to 
remind them--we have got some rules around here, okay? I would 
like to remind them that their oral testimony is restricted to 
5 minutes in length.
    If you see the light turn red in front of you, it means 
your 5 minutes have concluded and you should wrap up your 
testimony. And if you hear this--[gavel banging]--that means 
you are going too long, you are ignoring the federal government 
and all that stuff that goes with it. So we won't have much of 
that. But we do watch that very closely, so you will see the 
lights there.
    Now, before recognizing the witnesses, I want to remind 
them that your oral testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in 
length, and if you see the light turn red, you will know what 
the time is.
    So I want to now recognize Dr. Gunuskey for his 5-minute 
opening remarks.

   STATEMENTS OF KEITH GUNUSKEY, SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, 
WALLENPAUPACK AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT; MIKE GIBSON, EXECUTIVE VICE 
  PRESIDENT, ASSOCIATED GENERAL CONTRACTORS (AGC) OF KANSAS; 
 NIKKI NIX, CHIEF ACADEMIC OFFICER, GODLEY INDEPENDENT SCHOOL 
       DISTRICT; AND ZACH BOREN, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, 
                  APPRENTICESHIPS FOR AMERICA

                  STATEMENT OF KEITH GUNUSKEY

    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Chairman and Members of the United States 
House Small Business Committee, thank you for the opportunity 
to appear before you today. It is truly an honor to speak with 
you about the critical role career and technical education 
plays in strengthening Main Street America and building 
America's workforce.
    I can say that this topic is so important to me that I 
literally drove through a blizzard to be here today. It was 
more of a blizzard warning.
    My name is Keith Gunuskey, and I proudly serve as 
superintendent of the Wallenpaupack Area School District in 
northeastern Pennsylvania. Our district serves 3,000 students 
from Wayne and Pike Counties and is very rural, covering 325 
square miles. I am proud to say that our communities are rich 
in work ethic, resilience, and commitment to opportunity.
    Wayne and Pike Counties are unique in Pennsylvania. We are 
the only 2 counties out of the 67 counties in the State that do 
not currently have a dedicated career and tech center.
    Yet, despite this, we have never approached career and 
technical education with a deficit mindset. Instead, we have 
embraced a ``do the best you can with what you have'' mindset. 
Using limited space and shared facilities, we have built 
strong, high-quality programs in automotive technology; outdoor 
power equipment; building construction; childcare; allied 
health, which is our nursing program; engineering; culinary 
arts; protective services, which covers law enforcement, EMS, 
and firefighting; rehabilitation aid; and aviation.
    These AI-resistant programs reflect the real workforce 
needs of our region and provide students with meaningful 
pathways to employment, entrepreneurship, and life-sustaining 
wages, all while staying in the beautiful northern Pocono 
Mountains.
    I am privileged to be a part of a school district with a 
rich history of identifying community and workforce needs and 
aligning those needs to curricular pathways and creating 
opportunities for our students so that schools-to-work 
relationships can be strengthened.
    My predecessors did not wait for the perfect conditions to 
make CTE programs a critical part of our school. Instead, 
robust programs were created, and I am happy to report that, 
today, over 40 percent of our high school students participate 
in CTE programs.
    We have accomplished this by flipping the script on career 
and tech education. Our programs are no longer viewed as 
vocational-ed programs for the non-academic or the non-college-
bound student. Our programs are driven by certifications and 
post-secondary accreditation, which allows students to bank 
college credits in high school, thus allowing them to graduate 
from college quicker, with less debt, and allow the students to 
begin honing their skills and expertise earlier in their 
educational experience.
    At the same time, the demand for career and tech education 
in rural Pennsylvania is overwhelming. Our neighboring career 
and tech centers are operating at full capacity, with hundreds 
of students on waiting lists. For example, the Monroe County 
Technical Institute currently has more than 600 students 
waiting for admission, and they are not alone. These are 
motivated students who want to learn, work, and contribute to 
their communities but who are being turned away simply because 
there is not enough space.
    We feel the same restriction in our own CT programs, as 
many of our class sizes are limited due to the lack of student 
space in our school. Where we might have 25 students in a CTE 
program in a CTC, that is held--we are limited to about a dozen 
students in our current high school. That reality underscores 
the need for a CTC in Wayne and Pike Counties.
    Today, we are in the process of building what will be the 
final CTC in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. This facility 
will represent the completion of a statewide network of CTE 
infrastructure and will ensure that no region is left behind.
    A major reason this project is possible is the federal 
government's investment, secured through the leadership of 
Representative Bresnahan. Through his advocacy, Wayne Pike CTC 
was awarded $3 million in federal funding. This investment is 
allowing us to expand capacity, modernize equipment, and create 
learning environments that mirror today's workplaces.
    This funding is not about bricks and mortar; it is about 
access. It is about workforce readiness. It is about giving 
rural students the same opportunities as their peers in more 
populated, affluent areas.
    In our region, 60 percent of our students are considered 
economically disadvantaged. Career and tech education is not an 
``alternative'' path; for many families, it is the primary 
pathway to economic stability. It connects students directly to 
local contractors, healthcare providers, manufacturers, service 
businesses, and entrepreneurs. It prepares them not only to 
work on Main Street USA but to become Main Street USA.
    Our students graduate ready to participate in post-
secondary education if they choose, ready to contribute to our 
country in the Armed Forces if they choose, and ready to 
contribute to our workforce if they choose. Our employers gain 
skilled workers. Our communities grow stronger.
    Today, I look forward to sharing how strategic investments 
in career and tech education can strengthen small businesses, 
expand rural economies, and build a workforce prepared for 
long-term success.
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here, and I welcome 
your questions and our discussion.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Gibson for his 5-minute opening 
remarks.

                    STATEMENT OF MIKE GIBSON

    Mr. GIBSON. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    First, I want to thank Congressman Derek Schmidt for his 
leadership and vision of Kansas and his invite today.
    I also would like to thank your staffer Colin Hall for his 
assistance in having us today.
    The purpose of my testimony today is to share with you some 
best practices and successes that AGC of Kansas has developed 
in Kansas.
    Our program, our workforce development program for CTE is 
called Build Up Kansas. And you have a brochure in front of you 
that is already outdated, but it gives you a little flavor of 
what it is all about.
    But this is the most successful public-private partnership 
in the State of Kansas and maybe Midwest in terms of focus, 
bringing together policymakers, educators, and the construction 
industry to laser-focus on CTE technical training for our 
younger generation.
    A historical perspective: Over the last 40 years, schools 
have been told to send everybody to college. We all know that. 
But, with that, they have spent the lion's share of their 
resources on preparing kids for college.
    In Kansas, we, with our focus groups--and I believe this 
reflects the country--nearly 70 percent of our students either 
can't afford to go to college or don't want to go to college. 
So what are they doing?
    We approached the Kansas Board of Regents, which oversees 
the college and community college and vo-tech colleges, and the 
Kansas Department of Education with our training curriculum 
partner, the National Center for Construction Education and 
Research, NCCER, to get that curriculum approved.
    It is the only construction trade materials approved by 
both agencies. The reason for that is, it has a credential 
component that the students have that they can demonstrate 
their proficiencies.
    But it now has become the number-one pathway, cited by the 
Kansas Department of Education. Construction technology leads 
the way of every profession pathway in the State. And we are 
real proud about that.
    What brought us to this point, in terms of CTE programming 
being a top priority for Kansas?
    Four years ago, Panasonic was looking to move out of 
California, and they looked at Oklahoma and looked at Kansas. 
The key question that they asked--and I would suggest to you, 
why your Committee is so important to this country is--the 
question they asked our Governor, our Lieutenant Governor, and 
our legislature was: If we are going to invest $5 billion in 
your State, we need 13,000 construction workers to build that 
facility. But the question was, can you build and can you 
maintain our facility?
    I will suggest to each one of you as policymakers, that is 
the key to success for every State that you represent, now and 
well into the future: Can you build and maintain our facility?
    And we stepped up with Build Up Kansas. We now, with 
funding from the State, which pays for the textbooks, the 
online testing for credentials, and the train-the-trainer for 
the instructors--in less than 3 years, we have had 150 high 
schools and community colleges come on line with CTE programs, 
10,000 students in carpentry, welding, electrical, HVAC, sheet 
metal, plumbing, and the core curriculum.
    The great news is, 21 percent of those 10,000 students are 
female. The female population is being migrated or drawn in to 
construction because of the great careers and great pay.
    We also, with the NCCER curriculum--it is approved by the 
Department of Labor, Department of Education, Department of 
Justice, our Kansas Board of Regents, and Kansas Department of 
Education.
    We are not just stopping with the high schools and 
community colleges. We have four correctional facilities that 
are using our curriculum. The largest is right outside of 
Wichita. The El Dorado Correctional Facility has 150 low-risk 
inmates taking masonry training. Those low-risk inmates, as 
soon as they are being released, are being hired by industry. 
They are telling me they are better employees than the ones 
they have.
    The other component that the Department of Commerce likes 
with what we are doing--we have an HR platform that we provide 
at no cost to the construction industry to post their jobs by 
craft and by city. And we geofence the high schools that are 
partners with us. The kids can download their resume and send 
it directly to the HR director who posted that job opening for 
an interview. That is something that no one else has.
    The publisher for NCCER curriculum is Pearson. Pearson has 
gone all over the country; they have not seen a partnership 
like what Build Up Kansas has brought to the table.
    My recommendations to you, in closing: increase funding. 
The Perkins Act is critical.
    I also would suggest that the administration, whether it be 
this one or in the future, establish a CTE czar. That way, 
business and industry and education knows who to go to in the 
Department of Labor that specializes in CTE.
    I would also take a page from my former life running the 
AGC Highway: Look at a funding formula, that if a State spends 
$1 on CTE, the Feds match those dollars.
    And the last one: Don't forget about construction trade 
associations. They have the finger on the pulse of 
policymakers, education, and business and industry. They know 
what their workforce needs are. And if you put provisions in 
your congressional----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman's time is up.
    Mr. GIBSON. Yep. I am sorry, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the 
time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, again, for that great report.
    I now recognize Dr. Nix for her 5-minute opening remarks.

                     STATEMENT OF NIKKI NIX

    Ms. NIX. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Tran, and 
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today on the critical connection between career and 
technical education, CTE, and our nation's workforce in 
developing the future of main street success.
    My name is Dr. Nikki Nix, chief academic officer for Godley 
ISD in Texas. With more than 20 years in education as a CTE 
teacher, coordinator, and director, I have seen firsthand how 
education and small business must work together to prepare 
students for meaningful careers.
    Godley is a fast-growing, rural community southwest of Fort 
Worth, Texas. Our district serves around 3,300 students and 
covers 122 square miles. Our residential growth has surged, but 
our large-scale industry has not grown. Strong public schools 
and thriving small businesses are truly the heartbeat of our 
community.
    In 2024, we opened The WILD, The Wildcat Innovative 
Learning Destination, a 77,000-square-foot CTE center 
intentionally designed within a traditional football-stadium 
footprint to maximize taxpayer dollars.
    What looks like a football stadium from the highway is 
actually more than 40 classrooms, collaboration spaces, and 
learning environments serving 13 CTE programs of study, ranging 
from agriculture and health science to audio-video and 
entrepreneurship. In these programs, students earn industry-
based certifications aligned with real workforce needs.
    Because local internship opportunities are limited for us, 
we intentionally designed student-run enterprises inside The 
WILD to replicate real-world experiences.
    Shop The WILD, our school store, is a fully student-run 
enterprise, where entrepreneurship students manage every aspect 
of the business while selling apparel and spirit items. Shop 
The WILD also serves as the point of sale for programs within 
the facility like our drone students, who are often hired to 
film aerial footage of properties for our local real estate 
agents, and welding students building custom projects for 
community members.
    Wild Blooms is our floral design shop. It is open to the 
public during high-demand events like homecoming and 
Valentine's Day, turning the classroom into a working retail 
business.
    iLEAD, our information technology program, supports and 
services all of our student technology devices across the 
district. Through this student-led enterprise, we are able to 
bring device repairs in-house, eliminating costly outsourcing 
fees while providing students with authentic, hands-on 
experience.
    Since opening The WILD, CTE enrollment has grown 
significantly. Our students are drawn to the authentic labs, 
real-world equipment, and coursework that lead to tangible 
credentials and career opportunities.
    Texas provides weighted funding for CTE courses, which is 
critical. However, in fast-growth communities like ours, 
increases in the State homestead exemption limit local revenue 
growth. This directly affects our ability to expand facilities 
and meet the demand students have for high-quality workforce 
programs.
    The Small Business Committee can play a pivotal role in 
strengthening CTE. Some key actions from you might include 
things like: creating tax incentives or direct funding for 
small businesses that hire high school interns or apprentices, 
helping to offset training and supervision costs; providing 
incentives for local and regional workforce development 
organizations to formally partner with public schools in 
building workforce-ready talent pipelines; supplementing local 
salary schedules to create competitive CTE teacher pay, 
enabling schools to recruit professionals with real-world 
experience; prohibiting unfunded state and federal mandates and 
ensuring that K-12 funding grows at at least the rate of 
inflation; and restricting State actions that reduce or 
undermine local funding mechanisms, particularly those that 
limit bonding capacity for fast-growth districts like Godley, 
such as excessive increases to homestead exemptions that erode 
districts' ability to finance facilities and CTE 
infrastructure.
    Career and technical education is no longer an alternative 
pathway; it is an essential strategy for economic growth and 
small-business sustainability. When students graduate with 
certifications and real-world experience, they strengthen small 
business, they fill workforce gaps, and they often become 
entrepreneurs themselves.
    At Godley ISD, we believe education should launch students 
into opportunity, supporting small businesses and the future of 
main street.
    Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to your 
questions.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Boren for his 5-minute opening remarks.

                    STATEMENT OF ZACH BOREN

    Mr. BOREN. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Tran, and 
distinguished Members of this Committee, thank you for 
convening this hearing on how we can strengthen America's main 
streets by investing in career and technical education, 
including apprenticeships.
    I am Zach Boren. I am senior vice president of 
Apprenticeships for America. We are a national industry 
association advancing apprenticeships as America's first choice 
talent strategy. Our North Star is to reach at least 4 million 
active apprentices over the next decade, putting us on par with 
Germany, Switzerland, England, competitors that invest heavily 
in the trades and apprenticeships.
    I am grateful to be here at a hearing about career and 
technical education because that is what apprenticeships are. 
Apprenticeships are the oldest form of work-based learning. And 
CTE is where that journey begins, building real, hands-on 
skills. And apprenticeships are where those skills turn into 
paid jobs, credentials, and careers. Together, they form this 
seamless pathway from school to work.
    I am also the proud son of an apprenticeship graduate 
myself. My dad completed a meter technician apprenticeship in 
Indiana. His apprenticeship didn't just land him a job; it 
built a trade that sustained our family and built our American 
Dream for more than 50 years and still does today.
    My career includes a decade of civil service at the U.S. 
Department of Labor, working across multiple administrations to 
expand registered apprenticeships. During that time, we reached 
a 20-year high in apprentices and participating employers, we 
cut red tape by 70 percent, and we expanded the GI Bill for 
veterans who needed access to those education dollars.
    I have worked with Fortune 500s like Google and GM to build 
apprenticeship programs, but, just as importantly, I have 
worked with small employers with similar talent needs. One 
example is Technically IT. It is a small, minority-owned 
business in South Carolina. Its founder, Ashley, turned to 
apprenticeships to grow in a tight labor market. With support 
for training and start-up costs, she launched quickly and saved 
nearly $100,000 in education expenses, and her company grew.
    Her story matters because small businesses employ nearly 
half of America's private-sector workforce, yet they 
consistently say that the biggest challenge is finding skilled 
workers. Registered apprenticeships allow employers to train 
workers to industry specifications with local flexibility while 
workers earn a paycheck from day one.
    The average apprentice, as Congressman Tran pointed out, 
earns about $80,000 when they complete that apprenticeship 
program, and their earnings increase 50 percent. Employers see 
a good return too: a 144-percent return on investment while 
significantly lowering worker turnover.
    Yet, today, just three-tenths of 1 percent of American 
workers are apprentices.
    With nearly 680,000 Americans learning through 
apprenticeships each year, that is more learners than the nine 
largest public universities combined, but apprenticeships 
receive only a fraction of the federal investment for 
education. For every dollar we invest in apprenticeships, 
$1,000 is spent on higher education.
    Small businesses face their own set of barriers to adopting 
apprenticeships. Those include upfront costs, administrative 
complexity, and slow State approval processes that can hamper 
their success.
    I have experienced this kind of apprenticeship bureaucracy 
myself. In Pennsylvania, a small business I supported waited 
more than 10 months and three council hearings for approval, 
even though they had a solid training plan that met the State's 
requirements and they were ready to hire. Delays like that mean 
lost contracts and lost workers.
    If Congress wants to unlock apprenticeship growth, then we 
must make it easier to start and financially workable for small 
employers. The most effective model is a group employer sponsor 
approach. That is where multiple small businesses share 
infrastructure and coordinate training and compliance.
    North Carolina really shows the way, where more than 25 
groups help employers collaborate with community colleges to 
scale their own apprenticeship programs in a variety of 
industries.
    When small businesses work together, they don't have to 
build everything on their own. They train together, and they 
grow.
    This Committee can incentivize groups of employers to start 
apprenticeships through a pay-for-performance model that 
rewards hiring and completion, not paperwork and process that 
protects taxpayers and lowers risk for employers.
    This Committee gets it: What drives main street is risk, 
cash flow, and workforce. Building and incentivizing 
apprenticeship addresses all three. It is the most effective 
talent and anti-poverty strategy we have, where Americans can 
advance through their sweat, not student debt, strengthening 
families and hometowns.
    We do not need a new idea for small-business talent; we 
need an old one. Registered apprenticeship works. Let's scale 
what works.
    Thank you for your time. I look forward to your questions.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Let me also bring up something. If you see Members walking 
in, walking out, it is nothing you said; nobody is mad. There 
are a lot of other hearings going on, and so they will come and 
go. So I just want to make sure we understand that.
    And now we will move to the Member questions under the 5-
minute rule we talked about, and I will recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    Dr. Nix, based on your experience teaching CTE programs, 
these programs provide a pivotal solution to the skilled 
workforce shortage and offer students a robust pathway to 
acquire hands-on experience, industry-recognized 
certifications, and valuable partnerships with local 
businesses.
    My question is, what more can be done to increase awareness 
of skilled trades so students can utilize them as pathways to 
high-paying, in-demand careers?
    Ms. NIX. I think it starts with really recognizing the fact 
that you can graduate and enter the workforce with a skilled 
trade that costs you pretty much nothing if you are coming from 
public school. There is not a college tuition that you have to 
pay to get that. A lot of times, high schools can provide that 
full certification in your high school experience, and you can 
graduate with little to no debt.
    I think incentivizing that and helping parents understand 
that is a huge part of promoting and recruiting students into 
skilled trades, for sure.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Perfect.
    So, additionally, how would an increase in CTE students and 
graduates benefit rural communities like Godley, like the one 
that you serve in my district, and those others around it?
    Ms. NIX. The more students we can get certified and ready 
to enter the workforce, the faster our community is going to 
grow.
    As I mentioned earlier, we are a rural community, and our 
growth has largely come from rooftops and not an industry or 
even a lot of small businesses.
    If we can graduate students who understand the culture of 
Godley and in keeping our small-town feel that our community 
loves, those students want to come back and live and work in 
our community and start new businesses there to provide 
construction trades and welding and masonry jobs right here 
locally to our own community, and that helps our own town in a 
tremendous way.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Gibson, by 2030, data suggests that 
if the workforce shortage is not addressed, it will cost the 
U.S. economy $1.75 trillion in lost revenue.
    So can you explain how your member businesses have 
strengthened their partnerships with CTE programs?
    Mr. GIBSON. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
    One thing I will build on with my company--we did a 
presentation last fall amongst western Kansas economic 
developers. And after the presentation, a mayor of a little 
town of 500 came up to me and said, ``Mike, y'all keep focusing 
on technical trades.'' He said, ``We had a water main break in 
our city 6 months ago. It took 3 weeks to find a backhoe 
operator, and we had to have our residents use bottled water.'' 
That is one example. How did that impact quality of life and 
economic development?
    But I would suggest to you, going back to the original 
question that Panasonic asked: building and maintain a 
facility. We are, right now--you are--working to try to attract 
all those companies that left this country over the years to 
come back here. And I know they are asking the same question: 
Are we capable of building and maintaining our facilities?
    And the key to that is technical trades. I will promise 
you, the return on the investment is multifold--in terms of 
what the employer needs, the employee has a professional 
career.
    In our State, we need 58,000 new construction workers. I 
told the Speaker of the House--I made this comment 2 years ago. 
I said, ``You have a partner with AGC of Kansas that cannot 
fail.'' He said, ``You are making a bold statement in front of 
my colleagues.'' I said, ``No, sir.'' I said, ``If we don't get 
58,000 new construction workers over the next 3 to 5 years, I 
may have a lot of construction firms going out of business, 
because the first thing a contractor needs is people in order 
to bid a project.''
    So this has a ripple effect throughout the economy.
    And with the infrastructure, the--we all know that our 
highways and bridges and overall infrastructure is aging. It is 
going to require a big amount of professional career folks 
coming out of high school and community college and vo-tech, 
more so than ever before.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    Dr. Gunuskey, the Wayne Pike Career and Technical Center is 
a joint effort among multiple school districts in Pennsylvania 
to house 13 career and technical education programs.
    My question is, can you discuss the importance of a 
dedicated CTE center for engaging students in CTE programs at a 
very young age?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Absolutely.
    I think, you know, one of the things--going back to a 
previous question of what else we can do, I think it is 
important to begin early exploration of the trades in career 
and tech education, starting at kindergarten on up. It not only 
really allows the students to home in on an interest that they 
may particularly have, it also focuses on non-traditional 
students, students that may not have seen their pathway going 
through the world of career and tech education.
    And so I do believe having that CTC--having a CTC is 
critical, because it puts the message out that this is 
important.
    It also creates half-day programs. Right now, our students, 
if they want to attend a career and tech ed program in our 
school from a neighboring school district, they must actually 
withdraw from their current school and enroll in our school, 
leaving their friends and families behind. So we are forcing 
kids to choose between their families and friends----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. My time is up.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY.--and their career.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. My time is up.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yep.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you for that.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Boren, I am proud to co-lead H.R. 1642, the Connecting 
Small Businesses with Career and Technical Education Graduates 
Act, with my colleagues Chairman Williams, Congressman 
Olszewski, and Congressman Bresnahan. Our bill aims to help 
small-business owners fill gaps in their workforce by 
connecting them with graduates of vocational programs through 
SBA's Small Business Development Center program.
    I think one of the largest missed opportunities in our 
economy is between connecting CTE graduates and the small 
businesses that desperately need their skills. Right now, small 
businesses are often the last to know that a pipeline of 
trained, job-ready workers exists in their own backyard.
    From your work with apprenticeships nationwide, how 
important is it to formally connect small businesses with CTE 
graduates? And what best practices have you seen that ensure 
these partnerships translate into jobs?
    Mr. BOREN. That is a great question.
    And, you know, it really begins with CTE. CTE builds those 
foundational skills at the high school and community college 
level. But we have not yet built this pathway from career and 
technical education into registered apprenticeships, which are 
those paid on-the-job learning opportunities. We have this real 
disconnect between what happens at the Department of Education 
under CTE and registered apprenticeship, which has a large--
fairly large footprint of 680,000 apprentices nationwide.
    We can also look at pre-apprenticeship as a real bridge in 
between CTE and apprenticeships. And, you know, a really great 
example of that is what is happening in Iowa.
    So I worked with Central Campus in Des Moines, Iowa, led by 
a terrific director. They partnered with John Deere and a bunch 
of their suppliers to build apprenticeship programs at the high 
school that leverages the CTE training that is happening in the 
high school with what is happening at the factory.
    So this is really the idea of, like, how do we connect, you 
know, CTE leaders at the high school level with businesses that 
actually have those jobs in demand.
    Mr. TRAN. You know, on that, in your written testimony, you 
wrote about a secret sauce that helps small businesses' 
apprenticeship programs succeed. Can you further discuss those 
factors?
    Mr. BOREN. Yeah. I think the secret sauce is really coming 
out of North Carolina, and it is not just their barbecue. It is 
really how they have built 25 different consortia across the 
State--you know, these consortium that bring employers together 
to design apprenticeship programs, to organize them with other 
employers who have like needs, and then also to bring them to 
scale.
    So a great example of that is Apprenticeship 2000. It is a 
30-year youth apprenticeship program just outside of Charlotte. 
It began with about eight or nine companies, both German, 
Swiss, Austrian, and American. And, you know, a really amazing 
aspect of that is that they had this need in 1994 for something 
called mechatronics. And mechatronics is probably pretty 
familiar to everyone today, but it is really this combination 
of mechanics and engineering at the factory-floor level. But 
the community college had no idea how to teach it.
    So they came together as a consortium to build the 
apprenticeship program together as, you know, kind of, not 
necessarily competitors but people working in the same 
industry. And they have been able to sustain that program for 
over 30 years.
    One of the young men I met there was at Ameritech Die & 
Mold, named Sean. He was 21 years old, just finished his 
apprenticeship program. He was buying his second house, getting 
married. We asked him what his friends were doing. Most of them 
were on their couch, you know, vaping and playing video games. 
Meanwhile, he is living the American Dream.
    Mr. TRAN. A question for the entire panel if I can get a 
chance: How do we change the narrative nationally so that 
career and technical education is seen as an equal value to 
traditional college pathways?
    Why don't I start with you, Dr. Gunuskey?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yes. Just to re-echo what I said before, I 
think it is the early education. It is going to our--you know, 
going to the elementary schools and the middle schools and 
giving them the opportunities to see what their pathway can 
include.
    I also think it is important to ensure that all of the 
equipment that we have is reflective of the equipment that is 
in industry so that we are not working on two different levels, 
teaching kids one pathway and then they enter the field in an 
industry and they are working on different equipment. So I 
think mirroring that equipment is critical.
    Mr. TRAN. Thank you. I am out of time, but--Chairman, I 
yield back--look forward to talking with you all a little more.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I now recognize Mr. Stauber from the great State of 
Minnesota, the hockey magnate in this group, and champion, for 
5 minutes.
    Mr. STAUBER. Well, first off, Mr. Chair, I appreciate you 
holding this meeting.
    And I want to be real crystal-clear: I actually tried out 
for the 1992 Olympic team, and I wasn't good enough. So that 
was the way it is.
    But my younger brother coached the women's team to the 2018 
Olympic gold medal in Pyeongchang. And I can tell you that 
these, the women's Olympic gold medal and the men's gold 
medal--something special for our country. And I think we have 
to congratulate the athletes.
    And I don't know about you, but you get chills and a tear 
in your eye when they have that flag wrapped around them, you 
know, skating around the rink. Both the men's and the women's 
team, we are so proud of them and all the athletes that made 
the United States proud.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Gibson, at the end of last year, there were roughly 6.5 
million job openings nationwide. In northern Minnesota and 
across the Eighth District, contractors tell me they have work 
lined up but it can be difficult to find enough skilled workers 
to get it done.
    From your vantage point, how is the skilled labor shortage 
impacting the construction companies you represent, especially 
small and midsize firms?
    Mr. GIBSON. Thank you.
    Build Up Kansas took this on several years ago, because, 
again, we need 58,000 new construction workers to keep up with 
market demand. But the bottom line is, the small to medium-size 
firms are now having to be very selective on what they bid, 
which keeps them from being able to grow their company, grow 
their expertise, and other related growth opportunities----
    Mr. STAUBER. And that is what we want to do in small 
business, Mr. Gibson----
    Mr. GIBSON. Absolutely.
    Mr. STAUBER.--have the small-business man or woman be part 
of that.
    Mr. GIBSON. Absolutely.
    The other thing and the thing I saw when I moved to Kansas 
15 years ago was, Kansas has ranked over the last 40 years 40 
to 45th in the country for out-migration of population. We are 
actually slowing that down, to where employers are starting to 
see, because of CTE programs, those young women and men taking 
technical trade programs, and they are getting their 
credentials, to where they can get jobs close to home where 
they grew up versus moving somewhere else and their parents 
following where they go. And when their parents retire, guess 
what? They follow and sell their homes and take their wealth 
with them to wherever their kids and grandkids are.
    So our employers are really excited about what CTE has 
brought to the table, because it has actually increased the 
number of a working pool of technical trade folks with 
credentials that they can immediately put to work on the job 
site.
    Mr. STAUBER. Right.
    You know, one of the things when I talk to high schools, I 
say the--at the graduation, you know, instead of when we 
recognize the highest GPA in the class, why don't we recognize 
the best mechanic? Why don't we recognize the best carpenter? 
Why don't we recognize the sheet-metal worker that made 
something to put on display? We have to--we have to really push 
for that.
    And I want to thank you all, you know, for doing--go ahead, 
Mr. Gibson.
    Mr. GIBSON. We actually--with our community college and vo-
tech, we actually have a graduation ceremony where, just as a 
graduation for our college students, we are doing the same 
thing.
    But the bottom line being is, you have to look at how you 
provide those resources for that younger generation. They look 
for structure.
    Mr. STAUBER. Yes.
    Mr. GIBSON. And technical trade programs, apprenticeship 
programs--in fact, my good friend Mr. Boren talked about the 
different programs out there. Kansas is now one of the leading 
apprenticeship programs, pre-apprenticeship programs. And the 
reason for that is, it brings structure to the younger 
generation, who is seeking that structure.
    Mr. STAUBER. I have 1 minute left. And this is for anybody 
here----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. You can have another minute if you want.
    Mr. STAUBER. I can have another--oh, thank you, Mr. Chair.
    What would you say the impact will be from the new policy 
in the One Big Beautiful Bill where Congress created the 
Workforce Pell Grant, which will allow Pell funds to be used 
for components of registered apprenticeship programs starting 
this July?
    Mr. BOREN. I am happy to take that one.
    Mr. STAUBER. Go ahead, Mr. Boren.
    Mr. BOREN. Yeah. We are excited about Workforce Pell. I 
think, you know, Pell has long incentivized, you know, college 
students to do well in college to be able to save some of those 
dollars that--that gets really expensive. You know, the average 
student loan debt is $38,000 across the United States--a 
whopping $1.7 trillion in student loans.
    And today we are really looking at Workforce Pell being 
able to bring new talent into the trades and to a number of 
occupations that don't necessarily require a 4-year degree and 
offset both the costs of the student as well as the small 
employer that wants to hire that talent.
    We are going to see how this rolls out. We are really 
excited about what the Department of Education has done here. 
But it is going to take a lot of innovation at the State level 
to get it off the ground.
    Mr. STAUBER. And I think that--you bring it up--at the 
State level, I want the States to compete. I want the States to 
compete, you know, for the workforce. And I hope that all 50 
States agree with that. Because at the State level, I think 
this would be great--things coming out of, you know, the 
discussions at the State level.
    Does anybody else want to talk about the Workforce Pell 
Grants? Because Pell Grants have never been used for registered 
apprenticeships. Anybody?
    Mr. Gibson, go ahead.
    Mr. GIBSON. I think you are going to see that the States 
that are focused on CTE are going to step up and take advantage 
of these opportunities like no tomorrow. Because, again, what 
we are seeing is, our policymakers, our education 
deliverables--we use community college and vo-tech to deliver a 
lot of our training programs.
    And then the other thing that we told Congressman Schmidt--
what a great story legislators have to tell to their 
constituents on how articulation agreements are being used by 
high schools and community colleges to use resources, like 
resources, and not having to duplicate it. But these Pell 
Grants will only reinforce that momentum that is being shown on 
CTE.
    Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much.
    Thank you for indulging me for an extra minute, Mr. Chair, 
and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Cisneros from the great State of 
California for 5 minutes.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thanks to all our witnesses for being here today on 
this important topic.
    I am going to start this first question with our two 
educators here on the panel, Dr. Gunuskey and Dr. Nix.
    You know, back when I was in high school, which was not 
that many--a few years ago, you know, we had electives where 
you could take, whether it be wood shop, metal shop, auto 
mechanics, home economics. And a lot of that went away.
    And I know, now, we have created these pathways that 
students can get on. But the thing I kind of worry about, 
right, it is--you know, these used to be electives, things that 
could kind of go--you could go from this or that and kind of 
see what you liked, rather than having to choose a pathway and 
then that becomes your direction that now you are--for a lot of 
students, if they do it for a little while and then decide they 
don't like it, they are still kind of stuck on that pathway on 
their way to graduation.
    How do we get back to a system where we can expose students 
to different things, let them choose these electives, so they 
don't have to kind of make this decision and they can kind of 
work--``You know what? I think I like this.'' You know, ``Maybe 
I didn't like that, but let me try this.'' How do we get back 
to that?
    Ms. NIX. Well, if you use myself as an example, I changed 
my major five times in college and got a degree and then still 
went back and got an alternative certification to become an 
educator. So, most times, even after you enter the workforce, 
you change your job multiple times before you actually find 
where you land.
    I think that is an important distinction to make for our 
students as well. And it is something that people have touched 
on in different arenas already. Pell Grants are great for you 
when you are graduating high school. Apprenticeships are great 
for you as you are in high school and leaving high school and 
going into college. These are all things that address the 
problem when you are ready to enter the workforce. But I think 
a bigger part of the core problem is addressing this from pre-K 
to professionals.
    There is an initiative we have in our district where we 
start with students as young as pre-K, start having 
conversations with students about what their innate abilities 
and strengths are. If you aren't good at conflict resolution as 
a kindergartener and you can't keep your hands to yourself, you 
probably won't be a really good police officer, if you are not 
innately good at that. It doesn't mean that you can't be, but 
it is going to be a lot harder path for you to achieve that and 
be successful in it.
    So we have a lot of conversations about students learning 
about what their abilities are, where their strengths lie, and 
then helping them understand what careers align with that 
outside of just their sphere of influence. Because if you grew 
up in a household where your dad was a police officer and your 
grandpa was a police officer and your uncle was a police 
officer, that is what is familiar to you.
    So we have to be very intentional about exposing students 
to careers outside of what they are immediately in contact 
with, helping them learn about who they are as individuals, and 
then helping connect them to careers that align with those so 
that they can make informed decisions as they move through 
life.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Well, thank you for that answer. I think it 
is important to kind of work with kids young to find what they 
are good at and kind of help facilitate that process.
    But, Dr. Gunuskey, what would you--how would you do this?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah, absolutely. I think that is a great 
question.
    And what we do at our school is, as ninth graders, all 
students pick a wide variety of introductory classes that they 
can take--short, little bursts which are basically a microcosm 
of the pathways that they can explore.
    And then the students, once they pick that pathway, they 
are able to change if that is something they realize they don't 
like. Because it is not only important to find out what you 
want to do for the rest of your life, it is also equally 
critical to find out what you don't want to do for the rest of 
your life as early as possible.
    But I think it is important--and I will use this analogy--
when you talk about taking a variety of classes, I think that, 
you know, if you were to look at each class as a brick and if 
you just take a smattering of classes throughout your entire 
career, at the end of your high school career, you might have a 
pile of bricks. If you take those within a given pathway, you 
have taken those bricks and built a foundation of which you can 
now build your career on.
    So that is kind of the idea that we are focusing on, is 
ensuring that kids are leaving with a firm foundation, not a 
pile of bricks.
    Mr. CISNEROS. All right. Thank you for that.
    And, you know, Mr. Boren, let me ask you this, right? I 
have been told--but I have heard it--and, actually, the 
Chairman kind of said the same thing here, right? But I have 
been told by many CEOs, ``I don't need more MBAs. I need more 
welders.''
    Mr. BOREN. Uh-huh.
    Mr. CISNEROS. So how can this Committee help facilitate 
that process?
    Mr. BOREN. Yeah, I think this Committee plays an important 
role on really helping small employers work together. As I 
mentioned in my testimony, North Carolina is a great example of 
how we build consortia of small employers and medium-sized 
employers with all the similar talent challenges.
    You know, I talked about how these employers can come 
together through group sponsorship programs offered by the U.S. 
Department of Labor--and certainly in California, it is 
possible--to bring together the same training under the same 
roof with the same ability to recruit, build a brand name, just 
the way we see colleges build a brand name today, and go out 
and build really first-class training programs.
    Mr. CISNEROS. All right.
    Well, thank you for those answers.
    And I am out of time, so I yield back.
    Mr. GIBSON. Mr. Chair, could I just expand on his question?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Ten seconds.
    Mr. GIBSON. Ten seconds.
    It is how you deliver to the younger generation. They get 
all their information here. We spend almost 40 percent of our 
total budget, workforce CTE budget, on social media, pushing 
out the careers and the pathways----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman's time is up.
    Mr. GIBSON. And so, keep that in mind.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Meuser from the great State of 
Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thank you to our witnesses very much.
    Dr. Gunuskey, nice to see you.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Good to see you.
    Mr. MEUSER. I know that ride very well that you took on the 
way down here. And I am also not surprised at all to hear how 
Congressman Bresnahan was very supportive, as he works real 
hard for the district, of course, for the long term and the 
short term. So that is outstanding work. Good to hear.
    You know, career and technical schools, we all get it, as 
far as their importance. All you have to do is walk in one and 
see a young man, a young lady, who might have their head on the 
desk in traditional schooling and now has a bounce in their 
step, they are taking care of business, they love what they are 
doing. It is fantastic. I love seeing it in the high schools, 
in the public schools, and then, you know, in the CTEs 
themselves.
    We, fortunately, in my district, right outside of 
Congressman Bresnahan's district, have some great CTE schools--
Penn Tech, for instance, Schuylkill County Technical Center, 
Northumberland County, Lebanon County Technical Center. We have 
some great ones--Columbia-Montour, Berks County. Luzerne County 
Community College has an outstanding program.
    Yet they are jammed. And they--they could be more 
expansive, and the funding is not there, necessarily, for the 
capacity. And let's face it, as well, the apparatuses and 
machines that they use are not always available, because they 
need the latest things in order to develop the skills at the 
right level.
    So it is great how you integrate with--you know, it is 
really a training ground for a lot of businesses. So I know 
that is a big piece of it.
    Another big piece of it, of course, is, in 2019, our friend 
from Pennsylvania, actually, GT Thompson, had a lot to do with 
the Perkins Grants being expanded. So that is very, very 
important and very meaningful. Last year, Pennsylvania got $50 
million. I would like to see that be a lot more than that--
double, if not triple.
    And, as well, the Pell Grants. Under the BBB, as I think 
you know, the Pell Grants were expanded from not just a long-
term but short-term.
    So, really--I mean, I have a list of questions here, but I 
would really just like to hear from you all, what else do we 
need to do to help improve, expand, provide the right equipment 
to the schools that you are all doing such a great job and 
dedicated to developing?
    I will start with you, Dr. Gunuskey.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah, I would just say, I think a targeted 
infrastructure funding model of some kind, where--when you look 
around the country and you assess the CTCs that are successful, 
that have 600 kids on a waiting list--which, as I mentioned in 
my opening, at Monroe County, is sad. I mean, that is something 
that certainly needs to be addressed. So I think a targeted 
funding structure would be great.
    I also think--and you had mentioned Perkins, and I can't 
agree more. That is something that certainly supports our 
funding for career and tech education but in an indirect way. 
So do the other funding models that we have, including title 
funding, special-ed funding under IDEA. We have a number of 
special-needs students who participate in our career and tech 
ed programs and are able to work and live independently because 
of those programs.
    And so I think identifying all of those sources and just 
taking a look and seeing if there is anything else where they 
could be supported would be helpful to our programs.
    Mr. MEUSER. That is good that you mixed a little bit of 
business administration into that----
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah.
    Mr. MEUSER.--towards the end of----
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. My business administrator will be happy, yes.
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah, good. Good.
    Mr. Gibson?
    Mr. GIBSON. Congressman, I will tell you, obviously, 
increasing Perkins funds is one thing, but reaching out and 
working with trade associations. The reason for that is, we can 
then reach out to our manufacturer reps and suppliers to donate 
materials.
    We have programs in the high schools and community colleges 
where we will get a sheet-metal subcontractor to donate a 
sheet-metal brake, which costs about $150,000 to $200,000 
apiece----
    Mr. MEUSER. Right.
    Mr. GIBSON.--but if they see that that school is committed 
to CTE programming----
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah.
    Mr. GIBSON.--AGC can reach out to our contractors or our 
subcontractors and suppliers and their manufacturer reps and 
say, ``We want you to get involved.''
    Why are they going to get involved? Why would Black & 
Decker donate materials to that? Because they know that those 
kids are going to be trained on those tools, and they are going 
to be on the job site and they are going to ask that company to 
buy those tools that they were trained on.
    Mr. MEUSER. Huh.
    Mr. GIBSON. So that public-private partnership really pays 
huge dividends not just with the federal dollars and State 
dollars but the private dollars that are contributed.
    Mr. MEUSER. Maybe some sort of tax deduction for such 
donations is something we could work on.
    Mr. GIBSON. I will tell you, all industries would welcome 
that.
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah. Okay, great.
    Dr. Nix?
    Ms. NIX. Perkins funding is amazing, and it does support 
programs in our district. And when you hear the dollar value at 
the national level, it sounds really big, but when you look at 
the dollar value at a local level, our Perkins allocation was 
just around $20,000.
    Mr. MEUSER. Thank you.
    Ms. NIX. We have a history----
    Mr. MEUSER. I am out of time.
    I am very glad you folks are in the positions you are in. 
Thanks for the great work you do.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay.
    The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Ms. Goodlander from the great State of New 
Hampshire for 5 minutes.
    Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to our witnesses for being here today for 
this really important and exciting hearing.
    In New Hampshire, our small businesses are the beating 
heart of our economy. And I hear the same story everywhere I 
go, and the data bears this out: A third of our small 
businesses can't fill basic positions.
    It is about recruiting and retaining talent. And the energy 
and excitement around starting that pipeline as early as 
possible in our schools is really overwhelming.
    You know, as I have talked to and visited our schools and 
our tech centers--we have more than two dozen across New 
Hampshire--you know, I hear the same thing from students, who 
have really lost faith in a traditional 4-year-college path, 
and for very good reasons. You know, the national student debt 
balance right now has ballooned to over $1.8 trillion. It is 
all very understandable. And this is where I really believe the 
power of career and technical education comes in.
    As I have traveled around New Hampshire and seen at Alvirne 
High School in Hudson the next generation of nurses, I have 
seen in Claremont at Sugar River Valley Regional Tech Center--
multiple generations of people whose lives and livelihoods 
started right in these tech centers. And it is an inspiration 
to see.
    We have talked about a lot of the barriers that I have 
heard about again and again. I want to start with funding.
    You know, as I look at the federal budget--and, you know, I 
serve on the Armed Services Committee. It is a trillion-dollar 
budget for our Pentagon. And when I think about what you are 
doing with $20,000 in your district, what my State has done in 
leveraging, you know, $7 million in Perkins Grants, it should 
be humbling to anyone administering a trillion-dollar budget 
anywhere in this government.
    But, as I understand it, federal funding for career and 
technical education has fallen since 1980 from around $3.5 
billion to just $1.5 billion in 2024.
    Mr. Gunuskey, you mentioned that there are several sources 
of federal funding, including IDEA funding, that is essential 
to the programs.
    And, by the way, I just want to thank--anyone who does the 
job of superintendent deserves a massive round of applause for 
what you do, because it is one of the hardest jobs, I think, in 
our country.
    But can you say a little bit more--I mean, I have been very 
seized by the fact that Congress now has chronically failed to 
live up to our obligations under IDEA and funding it at the 
level that we said we would. Can you just speak more to the 
other sources of funding beyond Perkins that are essential to 
your programs?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah, absolutely. And there are three that I 
will highlight.
    First is the title funding that we receive, Title I for 
low-income students. That is imperative in our area, with 60 
percent of our students defined as economically disadvantaged. 
That funding is critical to move our programs forward. As I had 
mentioned, being over 325 square miles, access to our programs, 
transportation, is also a very big challenge that we face.
    So the Perkins funding is there. One of the items----
    Ms. GOODLANDER. So do you use Perkins for transportation?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. We do not use Perkins for transportation. We 
use the Title I funding for----
    Ms. GOODLANDER. [Inaudible.]
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yes. And we can use it for, really, classroom 
supports, aides that we may have, teachers in our classrooms to 
support reading and math work as well.
    Special education with IDEA is huge, as many of our 
students require teacher assistants to be with them to help 
with their instruction, special-education teachers to help 
process and modify curriculum so that it is understandable for 
the students. And so that is very important.
    And then there is something called a WIOA that I wanted to 
mention, which is the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. 
And, really, that is super-important in helping us network with 
our workforce boards. And it is a real collaborative approach 
that we have been able to work with in our community in just 
trying to leverage as much funding as we can and collaboration 
and to having our students have as much experience as possible.
    Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you.
    Mr. Boren, you mentioned in your written testimony that the 
National Apprenticeship Act hasn't been meaningfully modernized 
in more than 80 years. I really look forward to working with 
you on that project.
    You mentioned that sometimes just the red tape, excessive 
paperwork, and registration requirements, which can exceed 35 
pages, have been a real barrier to getting small businesses 
involved with apprenticeship programs. And you chronicled some 
pretty outrageous stories of red tape.
    Show us the red tape; let's cut it together. I am out of 
time, but I appreciate your testimony on this point and look 
forward to working with you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Bresnahan from the great State of 
Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to Congressman Meuser for those kind remarks 
earlier.
    And thank you to the witnesses. I know it is quite time-
consuming to take time out of your days and your lives to come 
here and advocate for your causes in front of Congress, but it 
really does mean a lot.
    And, Dr. Gunuskey, thank you for making the trek through 
the blizzard from northeastern Pennsylvania. And we will be 
spending some time on Thursday, so should you need a ride home, 
we will make some room to accommodate.
    But one of the first places that I got to visit after 
becoming a new Member of Congress was your CTE. And something 
that really stuck with me was the excitement and the passion 
that we saw from your students, whether that was in the 
culinary program, the aviation program, the small automotive 
repair industry.
    And something that I also experienced in my last life as 
being a contractor--I am sure Mr. Gibson would agree--is just 
the pipeline and availability of the future workforce. And the 
careers and the education that you are providing for your 
students are industries and jobs that will never be replaced by 
artificial intelligence.
    And the availability of work and jobs and family-sustaining 
careers the day after they graduate from your program was 
something that was certainly inspiring, which led us to support 
the $3 million community project funding for the enhancement 
and the new facility that I am really excited for that I assume 
will be state-of-the-art based off of all of the other programs 
that you have to offer.
    And I think it is an investment that is just one step to 
ensure that hundreds of students that are eager to pursue a 
career in skilled trades and technical fields can do so in just 
an incredibly new facility.
    But something else that you do incredibly well was--and I 
hope that you can provide some insight back to the Committee 
here on--how you partner with small businesses inside of the 
community and the curriculum that you are creating matches what 
the current workforce actually needs.
    So are there any examples of successful partnerships with 
small businesses somewhere within your over-300-mile radius 
that you can point to that we can have some better insight on?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yes, absolutely. I would be happy to share 
that.
    So one of the reasons that I think our programs are so 
successful is because they are celebrated and embraced by our 
community. Our community loves that we have these programs. 
They see the value in them. They just understand that we need 
more of them and we need them to grow, we need more 
participation.
    What has, I think, greatly benefited our program--and it is 
something that I think Pennsylvania does very well--is the 
requirement for every CTE program to have occupational advisory 
committees, OAC committees, that meet twice a year. And those 
committees are required for small businesses, industry 
professionals, post-secondary institutions to come in and meet 
with us twice a year, each program, and really dissect what we 
are doing--looking at our task list, looking at what students 
are learning, looking at the equipment that we are utilizing--
and giving us feedback as to, are we hitting the mark or are we 
not? What do we need to change? What do we need to update?
    And so I would strongly suggest the OAC to any school who 
is not doing that. I think that is a strong complement to any 
program.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. How frequently will you adjust curriculum 
based off of that feedback?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. After every meeting. So, after every meeting, 
our teachers will take the feedback and they will begin 
adjusting task lists for the future.
    And, again, that keeps us in sync with the small 
businesses, who are--again, our small businesses are terrific 
partners. We would like to have more small-business 
participation, because we believe that the more numbers that we 
have, the greater value that we have in our programs and the 
better feedback that we can receive and make those changes.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. How has the local community and surrounding 
area been receiving the idea of such a large investment and the 
idea that, out of--two counties in the Commonwealth of 
Pennsylvania are the only two that don't have a dedicated CTE 
CTC? How has that surrounding community been in response to 
this initiative?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yes. They have been very supportive, because, 
once again, they see the need.
    As I had mentioned before, the difficulties that we now 
face with students sharing districts. Having to dis-enroll in 
one district and re-enroll in another district naturally puts 
up barriers for students and families that are really--is 
really inequitable when you look across the entire State, where 
no other county has to do this except our two counties.
    So it has been very well-received and very well-supported.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. Well, I appreciate you making the trek out 
here.
    Thank you for all that you all do for your communities, and 
I look forward to our continued working relationship.
    And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my 
time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mrs. McIver from the great State of New 
Jersey for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you so much, Chairman, and thank you to 
our Ranking Member for convening today's hearing.
    I want to thank each of our witnesses for joining us here 
today, especially with all of the weather and everything going 
on. Happy that you can be here with us.
    Across the country, small businesses are struggling to find 
workers with the skills they need, while too many young people 
are questioning whether a traditional, 4-year degree is the 
only path to economic prosperity. Last December, one-third of 
small-business owners reported job openings they could not 
fill.
    At the same time, student loan debt is rising, and recent 
college graduates are experiencing higher unemployment rates 
than the broader workforce. We must build better bridges 
between education and the workforce, which we have heard today 
on this panel.
    In my district, we see this both as a challenge and an 
opportunity. Institutions like Essex County College and Newark 
Vocational High School are working to empower students. They 
are helping young people earn industry certifications and 
hands-on technical skills that align with businesses' needs.
    At the same time, initiatives like the Urban League of 
Essex County's Microenterprise and Skilled Trades Training 
Center show how partnerships between industry and educators can 
create pipelines into high-demand careers. This strengthens 
vocational opportunities in our community. These programs show 
that, when we invest in practical pathways, we prepare students 
for well-paying jobs and we ensure that small businesses have 
the talent they need to compete.
    With that, I have one question for Mr. Boren.
    Participation in career and technical education programs 
has remained largely flat for years, and instructor shortages 
continue to limit expansion in high-demand fields.
    From your perspective, what federal policy changes would 
most effectively expand high-quality CTE pathways and better 
connect people to apprenticeships and employment opportunities?
    Mr. BOREN. That is a great question, Congresswoman.
    Mrs. MCIVER. It is a mouthful. It is a mouthful.
    Mr. BOREN. And I appreciate the question, because we just 
have underinvested in CTE and apprenticeships. It was laid out 
earlier that, you know, we have had 50-percent cuts in CTE 
since 1980. And, you know, when we look at registered 
apprenticeship, for every dollar we invest in higher education, 
we are spending $1,000--or, for every dollar we invest in 
apprenticeships, we are spending $1,000 on higher education. So 
there is a huge disparity.
    You know, since 2016, we want to thank the Congress for 
investing in registered apprenticeship. Prior to 2016, the 
Office of Apprenticeship had absolutely zero dollars, when I 
started there, to invest in companies and intermediaries and in 
the trades. Today, we are at $285 million--still kind of a 
fraction in comparison to the $27 billion or more that we spend 
on higher education.
    So, critically important that we continue to think about 
modernizing apprenticeships, making them easier for small 
businesses to start, cutting red tape and some of the paperwork 
as well as speeding the amount of time that it can take for 
these programs to get approved.
    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you so much for that.
    And just in the small amount of time that I have left, I 
would love for each witness if they can--I know many of you 
have talked about this a little bit. What strategies should 
Congress support to improve early awareness for these types of 
non-4-year-college pathways?
    Mr. GIBSON. One, setting the tone. Again, I hear--and I 
have outlawed in my office--``local control,'' but--local 
control from the State down to the school districts.
    Most of the school districts we talk to--and we have 150 
partners, and we have got 300 school districts, so we are on 
our way to getting 100 percent saturation in terms of 
participation in CTE. But most of those school districts are 
looking for direction. They are looking for direction from the 
Department of Ed. They are looking for direction out of 
Washington, D.C.
    So I would suggest to you, don't be afraid to set the tone. 
Because I can promise you, especially in rural America, they 
are looking for direction, they are looking for help. And you, 
as the policymakers here in Washington, D.C., can set that 
tone.
    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you.
    With that, I am running out of time, but I will say, thank 
you each for all of your, you know, expertise that you shared 
up here today.
    Me, I am a true supporter of skilled trades. I used to work 
in a school district as a personnel director, and I know how 
important skilled trades is. And I wish we could have more 
dollars, more funding to be able to support such. And if I 
could do it all over again, I would have been an electrician, 
for sure, okay?
    Thank you.
    With that, I yield back, Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. That is your new nickname, ``The 
Electrician.''
    With that, the gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Downing from the great State of Montana 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. DOWNING. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to the witnesses for being here.
    You know, it is interesting, I was thinking the other day, 
it wasn't that long ago when I saw political slogans always 
talking about creating jobs.
    And I travel around my district, and, you know, there are 
two big limiting factors in small businesses and industry 
across my district--you know, access to capital and the ability 
to recruit and retain employees. And that seems to be one of 
the biggest limiting factors, is finding employees.
    And there are so many, you know, issues there, from housing 
to, you know, trades education to make sure that you have, you 
know, folks coming in that have the skills necessary. And it 
really underscores the need for more workforce development, 
more of this type of training.
    And one of the things that I noticed--I am going to start 
with you, Mr. Gibson. According to a survey conducted by your 
own association, by the Associated General Contractors of 
America, 92 percent of construction firms nationally reported 
having difficulty finding workers to hire.
    Can you elaborate on how this shortage of construction 
workers is impacting the companies that you represent?
    Mr. GIBSON. Well, this didn't happen overnight. And one of 
the components of Build Up Kansas is to change the perception 
of our industry. Construction has always been an afterthought. 
Now it is becoming back what it was in the 1950s and 1960s, and 
that is, a noble profession. And investment, of which Kansas is 
doing, leading the way on CTE in the Midwest, is providing that 
pipeline.
    But I said earlier, setting a tone. We are setting that 
pace and that tone to send a message to our membership across 
the State of Kansas and even across the country that it is a 
noble profession, it has got good pay, it has got a good 
career. And I said ``career,'' not ``a job.''
    Mr. DOWNING. Yeah.
    Mr. GIBSON. And you have to also deliver this type 
education materials the way the younger generation wants to 
receive it, and that is through social media.
    But the bottom line is, it is costing companies in re-
work----
    Mr. DOWNING. So can I--I want to elaborate on that. And I 
think that is a really good message, and I appreciate that. 
But--so to what degree do you believe that this shortage is 
contributing to the rising costs of both, you know, housing and 
commercial real estate in this country?
    Mr. GIBSON. There is no question about it. Again, if a 
contractor only has X number of employees and they need Y-plus, 
they are limited on how many projects they can bid, which 
limits the competition on commercial, industrial, whatever 
project it is. The more competition, the better pricing you are 
going to get and the better quality that you are going to get 
all the way across the board.
    But it has an across-the-board impact on our industry----
    Mr. DOWNING. Right.
    Mr. GIBSON.--starting with development of workforce.
    Mr. DOWNING. And, briefly, what role do you think CTE 
programs can play in bridging this current skills gap?
    Mr. GIBSON. CTE is the number-one issue, the number-one 
issue, bar none. And that goes for all industries across, but 
especially construction.
    What was the first thing everybody did this morning in 
getting up? You turned on a light switch, right? Somebody had 
to install that light switch.
    Mr. DOWNING. Right.
    Mr. GIBSON. Okay? So point----
    Mr. DOWNING. Thank you for those answers. I really like 
that message.
    I am going to turn now to Dr. Gunuskey.
    I want to discuss your experience as a superintendent in 
rural Pennsylvania. So my district, central and eastern 
Montana, is one of the most rural congressional districts in 
the country. And rural high school students, notably, 
participate in CTE programs at significantly higher rates than 
their suburban and urban counterparts.
    So, Dr. Gunuskey, can you elaborate on the benefits of CTE 
programming and rural education and why these programs are 
particularly effective in sparsely populated school districts?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah. As I said in my opening statement, I 
think that, you know, with having the high economically 
disadvantaged populations that we have, for many of our kids, 
they get into it as a way of life.
    And many of our students, when they graduate, they want to 
live in our community. And so, fortunately, what we are trying 
to do is continually match the needs of our community with what 
we are offering in schools----
    Mr. DOWNING. Right.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY.--so that the kids can learn, they can 
contribute to the local economy, they can stay, they don't have 
to leave, they don't have to leave with college debt.
    Mr. DOWNING. So I appreciate that.
    And as emerging technologies like AI play an increasingly 
important role in our society, in what ways do you think CTE 
programs can be leveraged to best prepare rural students for 
employment in this future economy?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. That is a great question. And I think what we 
are seeing is a shift in the interest level of the CTE programs 
being demanded by students.
    Years ago, computers, computer programming, graphic arts--
those were the most requested programs.
    Mr. DOWNING. Right.
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. But, now, AI can create those for you in 2 
seconds and create all types of coding.
    So, again, everything that we are trying to do is that AI-
resistant program that allows--that AI is not going to take 
over.
    Mr. DOWNING. All right. Thank you, Doctor.
    It looks like I have run out of time, so, Mr. Chair, I 
yield.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I now recognize Ranking Member Olszewski from the great 
State of Maryland for 5 minutes.
    Mr. OLSZEWSKI. Thank you very much, Chairman Williams. I 
want to thank you and Ranking Member Velazquez for holding this 
hearing.
    Thank you to all of our witnesses for your presence here 
today.
    Mr. Boren, I appreciate that you ground a lot of your work 
in the teachings of Jesus. And I know that our faith calls us 
to look at policy as if we are our brother's keeper. And I just 
want to say first that I respect that you are doing that, and 
hope that we can continue to see more of that perspective here 
on Capitol Hill.
    I know that you and many others in my State worked hard to 
pass Maryland's RAISE Act to create more tools and expand 
registered apprenticeships to new industries, employers, and 
communities.
    During my time as a State delegate, long before I came to 
Congress, I was proud to be the primary sponsor of the now-
nationally-recognized Employment Advancement Right Now Act, or 
EARN program. For the past decade, EARN has strengthened the 
State's workforce pipeline to supply local and small businesses 
with a well-trained workforce and has placed residents into 
good-paying jobs. Over 11,000 Marylanders have obtained full-
time employment because of EARN, and more than 15,000 incumbent 
workers have benefited from the program's upscaling 
opportunities.
    I would commend to my Chairman and my colleagues on the 
Committee this successful statewide initiative be explored and 
perhaps replicated at the federal level.
    Back home in my district, Reisterstown's main street is 
home to the nonprofit Cavanagh House, which hosts a partnering 
apprenticeship program for upholstery and sewing that matches 
students with workrooms and experienced tradespeople at 
industry-leading businesses. These partnerships allow students 
to refine their skills, gain invaluable hands-on experience, 
and build confidence in professional settings.
    Unfortunately, as we know, not every small business can 
provide this type of paid service to train and retain its 
students as workers, and that is where CTE bridges the gap.
    That is why I was proud to partner with Chairman Williams 
to pass the Connecting Small Business with Career and Technical 
Education Graduates out of the House last year, a bill that 
will help match students and graduates of CTE with actual job 
opportunities through Small Business Development Centers and 
Women's Business Development Centers.
    We will have to get it done in the Senate soon, Mr. 
Chairman.
    We need more of this commonsense type of legislation. Doing 
so will help ensure that America continues to be a place where 
small businesses, especially those on main streets, can thrive.
    Mr. Boren, I will start with you. We know that small 
businesses make up 99 percent of employers but just a small 
fraction of apprenticeship sponsors. Is the main issue the 
administrative capacity, or are there other barriers we should 
be tracking?
    Mr. BOREN. Yeah, I think the--and thanks for your opening 
remarks. I do appreciate you being from my home State. And 
Maryland really being the second-fastest-growing apprenticeship 
State in the country has a lot to do with the leadership of the 
Governor and folks like yourself.
    And one of the things that we are seeing, where Maryland is 
leading, is really in pay-for-performance for apprenticeships. 
So that really came about in the RAISE Act, as you know, and is 
being undertaken by the State, to pay for what works.
    You know, oftentimes we are using federal dollars where we 
put grants out, bespoke programs, and we hope that they work. 
This idea around pay-for-performance pays for success when 
apprentices are gainfully hired, retained, and, ultimately, 
what we hope to get to in one of our new pilot programs is to 
where they complete. So, if you are going to start an 
apprenticeship program, there is no reason why we ought not pay 
that employer or that apprenticeship sponsor for that 
completion as well.
    One area I just wanted to highlight, too, that I think is 
really critical for this Committee is helping our veterans. 
Veterans are a critical component of how small businesses can 
grow, yet the Post-9/11 GI Bill focuses only on higher 
education.
    If we are to really help expand apprenticeships with small 
businesses, we need to level the playing field, giving them 
their full housing benefits and tuition. My calculation looks 
at, if you choose apprenticeship, you are getting $200,000 less 
than you would if you decided to go pursue that French lit 
degree at Brown University.
    Mr. OLSZEWSKI. That is a really important perspective. 
Thank you for that.
    With my remaining time, 30 seconds, Dr. Nix, what 
percentage of your CTE graduates are going on to 
apprenticeships? And do you have any formal partnerships with 
employers to help create those pathways?
    Ms. NIX. In Texas, we have an indicator on accountability 
called CCMR: College, Career, and Military Readiness. Eighty-
six percent of our students graduate with an indicator in one 
way or another. Seventy-seven percent of students indicate that 
through career or military readiness. So a large portion of our 
students do graduate with that indicator.
    Just to add, one barrier that we have in fulfilling 
apprenticeships are age restrictions and liability that 
apprentice providers face as far as housing students underage 
in their facilities.
    Mr. OLSZEWSKI. Hm.
    I appreciate all that feedback, and thank you all for the 
work. Sorry I didn't have time for questions for everybody, but 
thanks again for being here.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Congressman Schmidt from the great State of 
Kansas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. SCHMIDT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this 
hearing.
    And thanks again to our witnesses for being here. I think 
it has been a great discussion.
    I want to look a little more down the road toward the 
horizon here and talk about maybe some spin-offs and some 
entrepreneurship issues. And I am going to start with Mr. 
Gibson and then go down the line to the extent that my time 
allows here.
    I am from a fairly little town. We have about 10,000 people 
now. My wife is from the Kansas City metro area. When we were 
first contemplating getting married--she is from a town of 2.5 
million people if you count the metro, and I told her, ``Well, 
I am from the biggest town in my area too,'' and I didn't 
disclose all the details. Sometimes our local dynamics were a 
little different.
    And, you know, one thing that strikes me--and I hear it 
everywhere I go. We hear the same dynamics, that we don't have 
enough plumbers, we don't have enough electricians, we don't 
have enough carpenters. But, in our world, that is not just 
having more folks at our regional construction companies, 
whether it is a Key or a Crossland or a Hutton--you know, we 
all have those. It is also having folks in our local 
communities who do that.
    And they are often mom-and-pop shops. They are somebody who 
hung out, you know, at Bob's Carpentry and Joe's Plumbing, and 
they either don't have employees or they have one or two or 
they have them ad hoc, and they live in a community. And, at 
least anecdotally, it sure looks to me like in big parts of the 
area I represent we have fewer of those folks than we did a 
generation ago.
    So here is what I am wondering. Let's assume--you know, Mr. 
Gibson, your literature talks about needing 58,000 more workers 
in the CTE space over the next 5 years in Kansas. That is 
great. Let's assume we succeed in that through a combination of 
all these great things we are talking about.
    Here is what I am guessing. Tell me if I am right or not. I 
am guessing that, out of the several thousand young folks that 
we encourage and support and they get into this field and they 
become carpenters, plumbers, electricians, whatever--metal 
workers--with these midsize companies, larger companies, some 
portion of them are going to have life events that make them 
decide they want to go back home, or they don't want to work 
for somebody else, they want to hang out their own shingle, and 
they want to raise their kids where they were raised or near 
grandparents or whatever, and those may be in smaller 
communities.
    What do we need to be thinking about--this is the Small 
Business Committee. What do we need to be thinking about now, 
as you are growing workers, to also be identifying and be 
prepared to help grow the entrepreneurs who spin off 5 years 
from now, 10 years from now, and become that next generation?
    Mr. Gibson?
    Mr. GIBSON. The lion's share of the contractors that I 
represent are small to medium-size firms. A lot of them started 
in entry-level positions and worked their way up. In fact, one 
of the contractors I wanted to bring with me today--and I don't 
think he will mind if I say who it is--Jeromy Bartz, Bartz 
Construction.
    He came out of a construction management program at Kansas 
State, went to work for McCownGordon, which is a large firm, 
got 7, 8 years of experience. But his hometown is Great Bend, 
Kansas, a very rural community, but he saw a niche. There 
wasn't a general contractor in that area. And he and another 
McCownGordon employee decided to break off and start their own 
company. And they started that company 3 years ago, and they 
are serving that area very well.
    But I go back to my story about the mayor that was looking 
for a backhoe operator. If you don't have craftspeople in your 
community--and a lot of these folks that are coming out of CTE 
programs want to stay close to home. And we are giving them 
that life skill early on, because they are not interested in 
going to college or they can't afford to go to college, and 
they are finding their way to stay close to home and meet their 
future spouse. We are starting to see population growth versus 
out-migration of population, all because of CTE programming.
    Mr. SCHMIDT. Thank you, Mr. Gibson.
    Dr. Gunuskey, you mentioned entrepreneurship in your 
opening. That caught my attention. And, you know, just because 
you are a great plumber and electrician doesn't mean you know 
how to handle HR issues or tax prep issues or advertising 
issues. What do we need to be doing with the SBA or otherwise?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah, I think--and that is a great question.
    What we do is, we bake entrepreneurship into all of our 
programs. So, regardless of the career pathway that the 
students are in, kids have a rich exposure in entrepreneurship.
    Through that, students also participate in something called 
our seminar programs, where they have a rich understanding of 
financial literacy, what it takes to start a business, to own a 
business, public relations, answering a phone call, all of the 
little things that mean so much today.
    So I think, as we are doing this as a country, I think 
entrepreneurship has to be baked in across the board.
    Mr. GIBSON. Congressman, I would just say, the Small 
Business Administration is a great connector to CTE programs 
because of the resources that they provide, just as the doctor 
talked about, not only technical resources but financial 
resources. And small business coming out of CTE programs could 
definitely be that great connector to the Small Business 
Administration.
    Mr. SCHMIDT. Thank you.
    My time has expired.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields.
    And I now recognize Dr. Morrison from the great State of 
Minnesota for 5 minutes.
    Ms. MORRISON. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member, for 
holding this hearing.
    And thanks to our witnesses for being here today. This has 
been a really great conversation.
    Workforce training and development is critical, of course, 
to both helping our small businesses grow and ensuring the next 
generation of the skills they need to succeed and advance.
    Minnesota's Third District is proud to be the home of Anoka 
Technical College, Hennepin Technical College, and Normandale 
Community College, which provide higher education and training 
through career and technical programs to ensure their students 
are equipped with the skills they need to succeed in today's 
and tomorrow's workforce.
    I had the honor of visiting Normandale Community College, 
actually, just last week and hearing about how they are shaping 
and preparing Minnesota's workforce.
    AI is increasingly impacting the way we work and changing 
the skills that employers are looking for in their employees. A 
common concern I hear from recent graduates entering the 
workforce is that AI is replacing many entry-level jobs. During 
my visit to Normandale, I learned about how they are training 
students to do jobs that AI can never replace.
    Mr. Boren, how can apprenticeships, technical education 
programs, and community colleges help ensure that students have 
the skills they need to succeed in an increasingly AI-driven 
job market and they are able to find a job now and in the 
future?
    Mr. BOREN. I think you are exactly right, Congresswoman. We 
are seeing a hollowing out of the entry-level labor market due 
to AI replacing that early-level, entry-level jobs.
    The challenge is, you know, we are going to need these 
folks later on too, and we need to get them in the workforce 
today. Nobody can wait 5 or 6 years to get into the workforce.
    And that is where apprenticeship, especially registered 
apprenticeship, is a flexible, industry-driven training 
program, where employers drive the learning. It is not a train-
and-pray model. It is where we invest today in apprenticeships, 
as we have since 2016, and we see an 80-percent increase in the 
number of employers and the number of apprentices being engaged 
in a variety of fields.
    One of the exciting things is that, since we have invested, 
we see more than 50 percent of apprenticeships now being 
outside of the trades. So they can be in insurance, in 
healthcare, in IT. A number of different industries are now 
investing.
    Ms. MORRISON. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Perfect segue to my next question for you. I am a doctor by 
training, and I am really worried about the growing shortage of 
healthcare workers and how this impacts access to care, 
especially in our rural communities.
    So, Mr. Boren, during your testimony, you mentioned that 
you have worked directly with small businesses as an 
apprenticeship intermediary, recruiting employers, designing 
programs, and helping companies across sectors, including 
healthcare, launch apprenticeship programs that meet workforce 
needs.
    Can you elaborate on how registered apprenticeships can 
help address workforce challenges, such as staffing shortages, 
in the healthcare industry?
    Mr. BOREN. Well, that is right. I am actually really 
excited to be here with my wife today, who is a registered 
nurse. But she ended up going the route of getting a master's 
degree. But we are seeing more States like Texas, Michigan, and 
a number of States create registered apprenticeship programs 
for nursing, where you don't need to go into debt. You can 
start that registered apprenticeship, where you are learning at 
the hospital with a preceptor, and that continuum goes on, up 
to receiving your license as an RN.
    But we see those shortages in a number of occupations just 
like that, whether that is surgical technicians or physical 
therapists, radiologists--a number of occupations that are now 
being created for apprenticeships. But we still have a lot of 
licensing barriers at the State levels that don't allow those 
apprentices to have that hands-on learning that we really need 
some relief from that regulatory burden at the State.
    Ms. MORRISON. And you kind of touched on this, but what 
skills do apprenticeships teach that can't be taught in 
conventional classrooms?
    Mr. BOREN. Well, they teach the hands-on. So, I mean, when 
you are in a classroom, you are learning it by theory. When you 
are on the job, you are learning directly from a mentor who--
and a journeyperson who has done that work as a full 
professional.
    And, in fact, we are seeing what is interesting about 
apprenticeships is, 85 percent of apprentices today are men, 
and a lot of the last few administrations have treated that as 
a flaw, not a feature. We are seeing a number of men drop out 
of college, not being able to return, and apprenticeships are 
this great way where men--and research is showing that men 
really do well when they have that hands-on learning. And it is 
a great way to get them into a great career that pays really 
well as well.
    Ms. MORRISON. Thank you so much. And a quick thank you to 
your wife for taking care of patients.
    Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Wied from the great State of Wisconsin 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. WIED. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to all the witnesses that are testifying here 
today.
    For far too long, our education system has prioritized 4-
year colleges and has treated CTE education as an afterthought. 
Despite our nation's clear need for skilled tradesmen and a 
high demand from students, we have continued to see a lack of 
resources allocated to these programs.
    CTE programs offer a less expensive alternative to a 4-year 
degree, and students often graduate in as little as 18 months, 
prepared for good-paying, in-demand careers.
    In northeastern Wisconsin, many high schools and technical 
colleges partner with local small businesses to ensure students 
can begin an apprenticeship immediately after graduation. This 
not only provides students with paid hands-on experience but 
also helps small businesses connect with eager, hardworking 
students.
    I am encouraged by the work of our witnesses here and all 
that you have done to bring technical education back into the 
high school curriculum. The demand from schools in my district 
for CTE education underscores the pressing need for these 
programs.
    Like all of you, I feel very strongly about this issue, and 
I remain committed to supporting CTE in schools in northeastern 
Wisconsin and, of course, across our nation.
    Dr. Gunuskey, from the great school district of 
Wallenpaupack, obviously you are doing a great job. And what I 
am impressed with is--and you had mentioned--the community 
support. And that is key to building, you know, the vocational 
education, of course, in your district. And you also have great 
small-business support in your area.
    What advice would you give to other school districts, maybe 
some best practices of things that have gone very well, in 
order to build the culture that you have? We have questions. A 
lot of districts in our area want to improve. And so what would 
you offer to them?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. First and foremost, seeing is believing. 
Invite them in. Invite them in to see the programs, to meet 
with the students, to participate in OACs, to contribute.
    Many times, we will have organizations and industry 
partners come in, and they didn't necessarily see how they fit 
into the overall picture of the curriculum, how they can 
support the CTE. And so, by bringing them in, it does not take 
them very long to realize that they are very integral in part. 
So I would say, seeing is believing is absolutely critical.
    In our school, we don't have--we have a pre-apprenticeship 
program but not a full apprenticeship program, because, again, 
we are not a CTC. But we do have students in the healthcare 
field that are actually working in the hospital for half a day, 
going out to--rehabilitation aide, PT, OT, PTAs--for half a 
day, getting that hands-on experience.
    Mr. WIED. We have a lot of great districts that do very 
well in vocation. Luxemburg-Casco, for one, has built, over a 
long time, great community support, great support with local 
businesses.
    Mr. Gibson, what would you say, maybe some of the things 
that--some big wins that you have seen in partnering with local 
school districts? What would you say to contractors and 
businesses? What can we do better?
    Mr. GIBSON. Well, Build Up Kansas has--its success has come 
down--and the doctor talked about advisory councils, industry 
advisory councils. I would go one step farther. One of the 
things that has been successful is not only bringing industry 
in to share what type of professions they are looking for, but 
we bring in recent graduates of that high school CTE program, 
because they can relate to that younger generation better than 
the contractor. And that has really turned a lot of heads.
    In fact, I mentioned about social media. If you go to Build 
Up Kansas--BuildUpKS.com, you will see testimonies of a lot of 
students that have graduated out of the high school CTE 
programs.
    Matter of fact, I mentioned Panasonic. One of our community 
colleges up in Topeka, Washburn Technology, graduated 300 
electrical technicians. All of them received contracts to go to 
work for Panasonic.
    So get the industry and recent students that have graduated 
from their local schools to tell the story, and I can tell you, 
you will get a lot of heads turning to CTE programming.
    Mr. WIED. That is fantastic.
    Clearly, technical colleges we are talking about. But 
apprenticeships--Mr. Boren, what are--that you have seen--what 
are some best practices in building this community engagement 
and, you know, the relationships with school districts that you 
have done, that others could use around the country?
    Mr. BOREN. Yeah. And I just congratulate Wisconsin on being 
the oldest and one of the most robust apprenticeship States----
    Mr. WIED. Uh-huh.
    Mr. BOREN.--who has done a great job with youth 
apprenticeship.
    But I also look to Iowa, who has created high schools as 
sponsors, working as sponsors of apprenticeship programs, 
working across different industries, from being a butcher to 
being a cybersecurity analyst. You can do it, if you create the 
program at the high school level.
    Mr. WIED. Great.
    Thank you all.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Mr. Jack from the great State of Georgia 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. JACK. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And I want to thank our witnesses for testifying today.
    I would be remiss if I didn't open my remarks walking you 
all through something that was very special to my district.
    Just last month, I brought our Secretary of Education, 
Linda McMahon, to my district. And, just for reference, I 
represent a part of Georgia that is just southwest of Atlanta, 
includes Coweta County. And, very specifically, within it, we 
have got a Central Educational Center. And this is--this 
provided, frankly, for the State a blueprint for success for 
how high schools can better prepare our students to be well-
equipped for the ever-evolving workforce in today's 
technological age.
    And I say that because--we brought the Secretary of 
Education. We have had, you know, a lot of important people 
come but never a Cabinet Member. I was proud to bring her. And 
what they did is--effectively, this community, Newnan, Georgia, 
about 30, 40 years ago, they said, we have high school students 
that are graduating that are not prepared for the workforce 
that we have now recruited to come into our communities, so we 
have to partner with our school and provide an opportunity for 
students to leave the school place during the day for a small 
period of time, go learn some technical skills, and then come 
back and participate just as they normally would.
    This blueprint was so successful--Central Educational 
Center, I encourage anybody to look at it--that the State of 
Georgia has now replicated it in over 60 counties. They 
literally copy-paste-replace in different cities and counties 
around the State. So I am very proud of that.
    And, in that vein, if I could, I just want to start with 
Mr. Gunuskey.
    So, as you think--and we have talked about this today. As 
we think about this global economy that we have today, new 
technologies constantly evolving, how can schools better 
integrate these kinds of tools and training into career and 
technical education? How does that help support small 
businesses that rely on a skilled, adaptable workforce?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Effective communication--communication with 
the small businesses, communication with your county and 
community.
    And I applaud what you have done in Georgia. And the work 
that they have done certainly is a great example of that 
communication--groups coming together, having effective 
communication, finding out what needs to be done, what 
workforce needs to be met, and how the schools can implement 
those strategies to supplement the workforce locally.
    Mr. JACK. And what would you say the biggest barriers are 
for schools that want to adopt and maintain these types of 
projects? How can federal policy help break down some of those 
barriers to help more students get to enjoy this?
    Mr. GUNUSKEY. Yeah. I know we talked about funding, because 
funding is the--is probably the biggest hurdle.
    I think in rural Pennsylvania another issue that we are 
facing--and I know my colleague mentioned this before--is also 
the staffing, the CTE teacher shortage that we are 
experiencing. It is very difficult.
    A starting teacher at Wallenpaupack is right around 
$60,000. So, when you take somebody out of industry who is 
making significantly more than that, invite them in and say, 
``Here, now you can teach 12 to 15 kids, and you have to go 
back to college to get certification,'' it is not very 
enticing.
    And so it is something that we are continually trying to 
work on. And so, if there was any type of, you know, work that 
we could do with potential industry teachers to come back and 
help, you know, be teachers in the classroom, it would be 
significant.
    Mr. JACK. Well, thank you very much.
    If I can next move to Mr. Gibson.
    I would also be remiss if I didn't note my colleague to my 
right, Congressman Schmidt. We were just talking about you. I 
was with Marty Jackley, the attorney general for South Dakota, 
who said you were one of the best attorneys general he's served 
with. So you are well-represented in Kansas, and I want to----
    Mr. GIBSON. Absolutely.
    Mr. JACK.--make that clear for the record.
    But, as I mentioned, in my district, the Central 
Educational Center, of which I am very proud, was created 
because the community recognized that students needed to access 
training to compete in this changing economy.
    And I am curious, from your perspective, how, too, do you 
see--especially within the workforce that you have to recruit, 
you know, what type of educational opportunities would you like 
to see better provided for students coming out of some of these 
technical schools?
    And, frankly, I also have to ask--you know, we are seeing a 
more autonomous workforce. I see it across factories I visit 
all the time. And, obviously, you are more focused on general 
contracting. But I am curious, how do we prepare ourselves for 
this autonomous workforce that is coming?
    Mr. GIBSON. Well, first, I want to build on the question. 
Instructors are critical. We are losing instructors as fast as 
we are losing the older generation.
    And, through our HR platform, we are giving the schools the 
ability to post their jobs. We have actually had experience of 
bringing back recently retired tradesmen to come back and teach 
at a local school. We actually got the State to change the 
legislation to where they didn't have to have a Ph.D. or a 
master's to teach----
    Mr. JACK. Huh.
    Mr. GIBSON.--if it was regarding technical training.
    But the key in getting everything to a point where CTE 
becomes important is training.
    We use the NCCER curriculum because it was developed by the 
construction industry with education in mind. It has a 
credential that goes along with it. The contractors--and I 
represent general contractors, subs, and suppliers--they are 
migrating to it because there is a proven curriculum that the 
schools are embracing.
    And that credential that comes along with it is like a high 
school diploma, to where they can demonstrate--like, for 
example, the core has blueprint reading, OSHA 10-hour safety, 
hand tools, power tools. All of that accumulates like a high 
school degree, to where that applicant can show that contractor 
what skills they have to go to work immediately in the 
industry.
    Mr. JACK. Thank you, Mr. Gibson.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I want to thank our witnesses today for your testimony.
    And I want you to go home and--I always get asked, can't 
you reach across the aisle with these guys and gals? I think 
you have seen we can do that. A pretty good hearing today. We 
were just remarking, there wasn't--I mean, we all agree on 
everything. So this is great. We will get something done. And 
that is not true everywhere, but here, we all agree on 
everything right now.
    But, anyway, without objection, Members have 5 legislative 
days to submit additional materials and written questions for 
the witnesses to the Chair, which will be forwarded to the 
witnesses.
    I ask the witnesses to please respond promptly if that 
happens.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:52 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
                           
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