[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE
OF VETERANS IN AMERICA
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC
OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
__________
Serial No. 119-36
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-606 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire,
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona Ranking Member
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
Mariana Islands DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
TOM BARRETT, Michigan TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
----------
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................ 1
The Honorable Chris Pappas, Ranking Member....................... 3
WITNESSES
Panel I
Mr. Kenneth Smith, Executive Director at Education Service,
Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans
Affairs........................................................ 5
Accompanied by:
Ms. Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive Director at Veterans
Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits
Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Panel II
Mr. Greg Hamm, Vice President of Field and Government Recruiting,
Werner Enterprise, On behalf of the American Trucking
Associations................................................... 20
Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr., Teamsters Local 282 Business Agent,
Helmets to Hardhats Teamsters Trade Advisor, First Sergeant
USMC, Ret...................................................... 21
Mr. Jerome A. Grant, Chief Executive Officer, Universal Technical
Institute Inc.................................................. 23
Mr. David Bostic, Service Development Manager, Aftermarket &
Customer Support for Region 4, Deere & Company................. 25
Mr. Ying Vang, Human Resources Manager, ORC Industries........... 27
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Mr. Kenneth Smith Prepared Statement............................. 41
Mr. Greg Hamm Prepared Statement................................. 44
Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr. Prepared Statement........................ 50
Mr. Jerome A. Grant Prepared Statement........................... 53
Mr. David Bostic Prepared Statement.............................. 55
Mr. Ying Vang Prepared Statement................................. 59
Statements For The Record
International Union of Elevator Constructors (IUEC) and the
National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP) Prepared
Statement...................................................... 61
50strong Prepared Statement...................................... 64
Helmets to Hardhats Prepared Statement........................... 82
National Association of State Approving Agencies Prepared
Statement...................................................... 84
National Association of Electrical Distributors (NAED) Prepared
Statement...................................................... 86
University of Health and Performance Prepared Statement.......... 88
APPENDIX--continued
Wounded Warrior Project Prepared Statement....................... 88
The American Legion Prepared Statement........................... 94
STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE
OF VETERANS IN AMERICA
----------
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Van Orden, Ciscomani, King-Hinds,
Barrett, Pappas, McGarvey, Ramirez, and Kennedy.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Van Orden. Good morning. The subcommittee will come to
order. The chair may declare a recess at any time in case we
have to run across the street.
Before I begin, I want to take a moment of silence to
recognize Sergeant Andrew Wolfe, who is currently recovering,
and Specialist Sarah Beckstrom, who was murdered by a terrorist
that came here from Afghanistan. Her sacrifice and his struggle
will not be forgotten. Please join me in a moment of silence.
[Moment of silence.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. I want to thank our witnesses for
being here today to discuss ways to strengthen America's
workforce with one of the best populations of Americans. Those
are veterans. They know where to be, when to be, and what
uniform to be in, and they are not on drugs.
The purpose of today's hearing is to examine how the U.S.
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) provides opportunities for
veterans to explore nontraditional education, whether that be
through apprenticeship, on-the-job training, or the Transition
Assistance Program (TAP). I look forward to continuing the
nonpartisan spirit of the subcommittee along with Ranking
Member Mr. Pappas, great to see him after Thanksgiving, to
ensure that the VA is working in lockstep with today's job
market to meet the needs of today's veterans.
Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) was
unable to come here today because the Senate has continued to
slow walk the confirmation process of President Trump's
appointees. I encourage them strongly to just get these people
in place. This is not a political issue. We need our political
leaders in the executive branch to be able to execute the
programs that we write for them.
Last Congress, the Biden administration's U.S. Department
of Labor-Veterans' Employment and Training Service (DOL-VETS)
consistently failed veterans. We had multiple hearings about
that. By the end of the Congress, their employment statistics
were worse than a regular American job center. This committee
must hear how DOL-VETS is going to turn it around. I look
forward to having Mr. Workman testify shortly after he is
confirmed.
On this note, we had a rather contentious meeting with Mr.
Tim Cummings, who is in place now. I would like to apologize to
him for getting a little senior chiefy on him, which I did. I
have the utmost confidence in Secretary Chavez-DeRemer and also
Secretary Collins to work this out for the betterment of the
veterans. That is very important for all of us. We do
understand that is a higher purpose.
This hearing is not only getting these VA programs back on
track, but also to note the importance of shoring up American
manufacturing as a national security issue. I also serve on the
House Armed Services Committee, and I cannot tell you enough
how badly America needs to reenergize defense manufacturing so
that we are always ready for today and tomorrow to defend our
way of life. One of the best ways to do this is to show these
companies that have jobs available that there are thousands of
veterans ready to fill them.
Many veterans use the GI Bill within a year of
transitioning out of the military, oftentimes as a fallback
option when they do not know what their next mission is.
Veterans using VA's On-the-Job Training (OJT) and
apprenticeship programs are able to supplement their income
with both a living stipend payment from the VA for the post 9-
11 GI Bill benefits as well as wages from their employer while
they are enrolled in these VA programs. At the end of their
training program, they are able to step right into a beneficial
career. I do not know of many major programs at institutions of
higher learning that can promise a job at the end of their
programs. This promise of employment through the apprenticeship
training is what makes the VA program so special and can help
combat underemployment and suicide in our veterans population.
In VA's most recent annual benefits report, the number of
veterans using their post GI Bill to pursue OJT or
apprenticeship continues to decline. In 2023, there were only
1,008 apprenticeships and 776 OJT participants representing
less than 1 percent of the post GI Bill population. With some
states having zero individuals participating in this program,
we are spending around $241 million a year on administrative
expenses, which include staff salaries and counseling services,
for such a low success rate, and that is just pathetic. I mean,
that has just got to stop. The number of veterans in this
program and our administrative spending are concerning,
especially given the involvement--or the evolving needs of
today's workforce in the 21st century.
In this Congress my subcommittee has championed key
legislatives regarding VA's apprenticeship programs. My bill,
H.R. 982, the Warriors Workforce Act, would increase the
monthly housing allowance that a veteran pursuing an
apprenticeship or on-the-job training receives during a 6-to
12-month from 80 to 90 percent. Additionally, Representative
Barrett led a bill that passed the House, H.R. 3055, the
Transitioning Retiring and New Service Members to Port Ocean
Rail and Truck (TRANSPORT) Jobs Act, which would connect
military veterans with supply chain employment while helping
veterans secure careers that put their skills and expertise to
use. My friend from Arizona, Representative Ciscomani, has an
important bill, H.R. 1458, that would expand GI Bill
opportunities to get veterans into mechanical fields. Even
Ranking Member Pappas, Chris, right here, has a bill which I am
co-sponsoring, H.R. 2954, the Veterans', excuse me, Transition
to Trucking Act, which will allow VA to access as a State
approving agent for apprenticeship programs in more than one
State to receive VA approval. It is an outstanding bill, Chris.
Clearly this goal of getting veterans at the forefront of
critical positions in American economy is a nonpartisan issue.
I would now like to yield to Ranking Member Pappas for his
opening remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHRIS PAPPAS, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks
for the bipartisan spirit there as you highlighted some
important initiatives on the legislative front. I am really
glad to be here for this important hearing.
Before I begin, I want to just state that I am disappointed
that DOL-VETS will not be joining this hearing and we will not
be hearing their testimony today. I am glad to have VA with us.
There is an important issue that I wanted to address at the
outset here, and that is the issue of Chapter 35 benefits. I
think it is important to hear from VA about the fact that
75,000 survivors and dependents using Chapter 35 benefits have
seen delays over the last many months. Veteran survivors and
dependents across the country who rely on these benefits for
housing, education, or anything else have been left in limbo
with no acknowledgement of the issue or any indication from VA
when the problem will be resolved.
Now, we have got a hearing in a few weeks on this topic,
but I was just discussing this with the chairman in advance of
this hearing. I am hopeful to hear more from Mr. Smith today
that he can communicate an update in terms of what is going on,
not just for us here in the room, but for the veterans,
families, and survivors at home that have been waiting for
their benefits for far too long. I am respectfully requesting
this because we are at the end of the semester, 4 months in,
beneficiaries have not been able to receive payments and cannot
wait another 2 weeks to find out what is happening and what the
status is. It is just unacceptable that VA has failed to
communicate when answers are needed today.
We have been hearing from this in our office. To put a
human face on this, I have a disabled veteran from Laconia, New
Hampshire, who reached out to our office because his son's
benefits were delayed a couple months at that point in time.
Chapter 35 beneficiaries, they need to budget, they need to
sign leases, pay for textbooks and food, and they need answers.
At the hearing in 2 weeks, I expect VA to send a prepared
witness to directly respond to these challenges and to talk
about the substantive specific information that can help us
understand this situation. The witness should be a political
appointee that will not pass the buck.
With tens of thousands of Americans lives impacted by VA's
error, it is absolutely unacceptable that not a single VA
official has bothered to respond to letters that have been sent
by Ranking Member Takano, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and myself
to the Department. It is unacceptable that the Department
canceled a briefing on this topic on October 1st. I know that
one will be conducted later, that it was over 2 months from
when this was originally requested. It is almost unbelievable
that we found out that the impacted beneficiaries grew from 750
people to over 75,000 through the press. There was no
communication from the Department to the committee about this.
This is not a partisan issue. We all have student veterans
and survivors in our districts have waited months for any
information. In that spirit, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can work
together on this and focus on getting the answers that our
constituents deserve.
Last, when we do convene a hearing on this, it is critical
that we hear directly from student veterans themselves, from
their families, from survivors to fully understand the impact
on this failure on their lives.
Now to the topic at hand today, employment pathways for
veterans. There is a variety of government programs designed to
help veterans secure employment after their service, but we
frequently hear from companies that navigating all the programs
in the various agencies is confusing and it does not meet the
needs of employers. It is clear to me that much more progress
needs to be made to improve VA's, U.S. Department of Defense's
(DOD), and DOL's systems so that more employers are willing to
participate. When you compare the results for employment-
focused programs like Skill Bridge with education-focused
programs like Veterans Technology Education Courses (VET TEC),
it is clear that involving employers early is key to placing
veterans in jobs and careers.
Data shows that programs run directly by employers, trade
groups, and unions, where veterans get on-the-job training,
upskilling, and certifications, continue to result in
successful job placements while companies save on recruiting
and salary and the government saves on training costs. It is a
win-win. This dynamic with the government paying a living
stipend and employers paying for training is a perfect example
of a public-private partnership that benefits everyone
involved, most importantly the veteran.
That being said, we need to continue to ensure that these
partnership opportunities are not limited to big business.
Small-and medium-sized companies must have the opportunity to
participate, to train and hire veterans, which may be where
trade groups and unions come in. Our small businesses and union
partners strengthen communities and can provide veterans
opportunities closer to home.
Today I would like to hear from our employer panel on their
interactions with various DOD, VA, and DOL-VETS programs, their
thoughts on if we should specialize different programs further,
and what a single point of entry for employers would look like,
and how we should advertise the benefits of participating in
these programs to the rest of the business community and who
should be responsible for that.
In closing, I just want to note one difference between the
programs that we are talking about today and the GI Bill. Since
its inception in 1944, the GI Bill's educational component has
been about more than just going to school. It is a tool to help
reintegrate servicemembers back into civil society after their
service, to enmesh them back into their communities, and to
build connections after being gone in service of their Nation.
We must hold those 36 months of eligibility sacred, especially
now that the benefit does not expire, thanks to the Forever GI
Bill. We must resist the urge to water it down by using it to
pay for other benefits.
If an employment program that we are talking about today
drains a veteran's GI Bill benefit, we must absolutely ensure
that, number one, it results in an actual gainful employment
and that the start of a career is meaningful and not a dead end
job. number two, that it protects veterans from bad actors who
take advantage of them. Number three, that it fulfills
Congress' original intent of the 1944 GI Bill by helping to
reintegrate servicemembers through community building and
substantive interaction.
Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. You are welcome, sir. Thank you, Ranking
Member Pappas.
I will just be frank, as long as I am the chairman of the
subcommittee and Mike Bost is the chair of the whole committee,
the GI Bill will not be touched, nor will the VA Home Loan
Guarantee program. It is interesting that you and I, I think,
are responsible for the two most successful programs the U.S.
Government has ever created. I am very proud to do that. I
gotcha.
I will now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is
Mr. Kenneth Smith, executive director at Education Services,
Veterans Benefit Administration at the Department of Veterans
Affairs. Accompanying Mr. Smith is Ms. Chanel--it is Chantile?
Ms. Stovall. Correct, sir, Chantile.
Mr. Van Orden. Chantile Stovall, acting executive director,
Veterans Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits
Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs.
I would ask that the witnesses please stand and raise your
right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you. You may sit. Let the
record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the
affirmative.
Mr. Smith, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
STATEMENT OF KENNETH SMITH
Mr. Smith. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member
Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today to discuss how we can strengthen
the veteran workforce. Joining me today is Chantile Stovall,
acting executive director of Veterans Readiness and Employment.
We are honored to speak with you about how VA is supporting
veterans as they transition from military to civilian life,
especially through vocational rehabilitation, noncollege degree
training, and employment-focused programs.
Transition support begins early. The VA is committed to
supporting every servicemember transitioning from the military
to the civilian workforce as seamlessly as possible. Through
our partnership with the Department of War, VA reaches
approximately 200,000 servicemembers each year through the
Transition Assistance Program. TAP helps servicemembers
understand and access the full range of VA benefits including
education, employment, and healthcare.
To further support transition, in 2019, Virginia launched
the VA Solid Start (VASS) program. Solid Start calls all
eligible veterans, regardless of their character of discharge,
at three key stages during the first year after separation from
active duty. These calls are unscripted and focus on connecting
veterans to the right resources at the right time. Since its
launch, VASS has successfully connected with nearly 75 percent
of eligible veterans, and these veterans are more likely to use
their other VA services critical to securing meaningful
employment.
In addition to programs provided during service and
transition, VA supports veterans toward their pathways to
employment and career readiness, including the Veterans
Readiness and Employment Program benefits focused on education
and nongovernmental collaboration and support. Veteran
Readiness and Employment (VR&E) is the cornerstone of our
employment support through individualized counseling,
employment planning, and hands-on training for disabled
veterans seeking to overcome service-connected disabilities and
return to work. In Fiscal Year 2024 alone, VR&E conducted
nearly 20,000 one-on-one briefings with transitioning
servicemembers. The program also supports noncollege pathways,
like apprenticeships, on-the-job training, and the non-paid
Work Experience Program, helping veterans gain real-world
skills in fields like trucking, plumbing, and contracting.
Personalized career planning and guidance (PCPG) counseling
is available to discharging veterans and ensures that they make
the most informed choice for their post military education and
employment path. PCPG helps veterans weigh options for college,
apprenticeships, certificate programs, on-the-job training, and
other high demand sectors to maximize career outcomes and
economic mobility.
Noncollege degree training is a growing priority and VA is
ready to assist. President Trump issued Executive Orders 14278
and 14269 to optimize and target Federal programs and workforce
development for high-paying skilled trades and maritime
industries. In Fiscal Year 2024, over 17,000 post 9-11 GI Bill
beneficiaries began vocational or technical training and nearly
1,800 entered on-the-job or apprenticeship programs. Benefits
may be used for apprenticeships in OJT and high-paying skilled
trades, including advanced manufacturing, welding automation,
and industrial technology.
Additionally, VA reimburses for licensing and certification
exams such as for commercial driving, home inspection, nursing
assistance, and artificial intelligence. VA will continue to
partner with Department of Labor and others to expand marketing
to assist employers in recruiting veterans and ensure veterans
are aware of the GI Bill opportunities, including
apprenticeships and OJT programs.
In Fiscal Year 2026, the VA looks forward to the
implementation of the new VET TEC program authorized by the
Elizabeth Dole Act to connect veterans to high-tech training in
fields like cybersecurity, data analytics, and cloud computing.
During the pilot phase, over 16,000 veterans completed training
and more than 8,000 secured meaningful employment within 6
months, earning an average starting salary of over $65,000.
In closing, VA is committed to ensuring that every
transitioning servicemember and veteran has access to the
tools, training, and support they need to succeed in the
civilian workforce, whether through college, vocational
training, or direct employment pathways.
Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Kenneth Smith Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Smith. The written statement
of Mr. Smith will be entered into the hearing record.
We are now going to proceed with questioning, and I will
remind our members that you will each have 5 minutes for your
questions.
I now recognize Ranking Member Pappas for 5 minutes.
Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Smith, if I could turn to you and just get at the
challenges that I presented in my opening remarks that veterans
are facing right now with respect to Chapter 35 of benefits for
veterans and their survivors. Can you talk and give us an
update on these Chapter 35 issues?
Back in August, we received information that this was an
issue impacting about 750 individuals. Schools found out that
that number was more like 75,000. Where does that number stand?
Most importantly, when can these beneficiaries in districts
like ours receive their overdue payments?
Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. We look forward to
addressing Chapter 35 questions in detail at the upcoming
hearing, as well as in our staff briefing this Friday. We have
continued to make progress through the 42 days of the shutdown
and the 13 business days since then, and we will have a full
set of statistics for you at that hearing or on Friday.
Mr. Pappas. I am not asking for complete detail right now,
but just some assurance that VA is working on this issue and
making progress. We are talking about thousands and thousands
of veterans and their family members that have been impacted by
this. They deserve an answer today.
We have sent a couple letters on this topic, one dated
October 3d to the Department, another dated November 13th. It
has been crickets. We have not heard anything back, and
veterans deserve an answer. Can you give them a little bit more
of an assurance how VA is working to address this?
Mr. Smith. You have my assurance that we have been working
on it. Our field team of claims processors has been hard at
work doing this through the shutdown. I apologize for the
delays in these letters. It is my understanding that they are
working their way through the VA concurrence process and will
be released to you as soon as possible.
Mr. Pappas. Where does that number stand? How many folks
are waiting right now?
Mr. Smith. I cannot provide you an answer on that right
now.
Mr. Pappas. Are you going to provide us with a briefing in
advance of the hearing in 2 weeks that will give us a little
bit more detail so that we can provide the oversight that
veterans and their family members deserve?
Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
Mr. Pappas. Now, can you talk a little bit more about some
of the other challenges the Department has faced? I am just
wondering, in terms of the lapse of funding, who has made
decisions with respect to furloughing employees during the
shutdown? Is it your understanding that the White House's
guidance during the lapse in appropriations was that employees
supporting government-funded programs, including mandatory
programs, were to be essential in working during the shutdown?
Mr. Smith. Sir, our VA contingency plan was published on
the website. I know decisions were made far above my level
about furlough status, so I would have to take that back for
the Department to respond to.
Mr. Pappas. Who made those decisions in terms of the
programs we are talking about today?
Mr. Smith. In terms of the overall VA posture, I cannot
say, sir. I would have to get the Department's opinion on that.
Mr. Pappas. Well, we are going to need more detail there,
too.
Ms. Stovall, if I can turn to you about VR&E. The American
Legion statement for the record highlighted concerns with
staffing numbers, and that is an ongoing challenge we have
discussed in this subcommittee quite frequently. What is the
current counselor to veteran ratio?
Ms. Stovall. Currently the ratio is 1-to-200.
Mr. Pappas. Okay. How many counselor job openings do you
have across the country? Can you just assess whether counselors
are keeping up with that workload, knowing that that ratio is
far above where the target is?
Ms. Stovall. Yes, we have 1,310 positions allocated for our
Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor (VRC) VRSS, and we have
currently 1,010 onboarded.
To the second part of your question, so we have implemented
our national case assignment strategy to help with those high
work--high caseloads at some of the stations that have lower
capacity to complete some of that work. We are also
implementing overtime for our VRCs on a voluntary basis. We are
also implementing help teams to complete orientations to get
veterans into entitlement decisions--see counselors for
entitlement decisions more quickly.
Mr. Pappas. Yes. How have these issues impacted the veteran
experience? What are their wait times like for VR&E?
Ms. Stovall. The current overall wait time is 81 days.
Prior to the shutdown, we were seeing a decline from 54 days
down to 50 days, and now we are currently at 81 days. Again, we
are using those help teams to help us make sure that we can get
veterans seen in entitlement decisions and plans written so
that they are able to start school in January.
Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you. I appreciate your attention to
those matters.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The ranking member yields back.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Barrett from the great State
of Michigan for 5 minutes.
Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
panel. Thank you both for being here today. Mr. Chairman, thank
you for the shout-out on the TRANSPORT Jobs Act. We are hopeful
that that will help kind of bridge the gap between members
leaving military service and finding employment in critical
sectors of the economy where we certainly have a shortage
taking place.
You know, this really struck a chord with me recently as we
saw the tragic case out in California, where an illegal
Commercial Driver's License (CDL) operator, illegal immigrant
in the country, performed an illegal maneuver, led to, you
know, to the fatalities of Americans that were here. To me, I
am thinking about this, I am like, why are we operating a
system where it is benefiting people operating illegally when
we could be employing veterans who have trained and are
qualified in these ways, but may not have the appropriate
civilian licensing that is necessary? They have driven trucks,
they have done supply chain jobs in their military capacity,
but then they do not have the reciprocity with civilian
licensing to get that appropriate job and opportunity back
home.
One of the original reasons, the very first reason I was
motivated to run for office a decade ago, I came home from the
Army and I saw that a whole host of my battle buddies that I
had served with were really struggling to find opportunities in
Michigan at the time. We were leading the country. We were the
second overall State in the Nation for veteran unemployment
rate. This is back in, you know, the 2000, mid-2000, 2015
timeframe. Michigan was coming out of this great recession at
the time, and we were hit predominantly hard in that effect.
Veterans always seem to suffer the worst brunt of economic
downturns. Having a robust ability for transitioning veterans
to come home is really important because I think it really
provides that stability, that purpose, and that fundamental
dignity that comes with being someone who is transitioning back
home and finding that next mission in life.
The work that we do on this committee is really important
in that effort to really establish a framework for how we are
going to welcome people back home and provide them that self-
sufficient dignity that they deserve.
I had a few questions for you about some of the shifts that
we have seen within the economy away from maybe some of the
traditional 4-year degree programs and into other skilled trade
or other skilled professions and things like that. I am curious
if you can give us any insight why we have still seen an
overwhelming preponderance of people going into the traditional
4-year degree fields and less inclined to go into the trade
opportunities that may be a better fit for them based on their
skills that they have acquired in the military.
Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I wish I had a
good answer for you, but, honestly, we do not have a survey
mechanism to ask veterans why they choose the path that they
choose. That would certainly be, you know, something that we--
--
Mr. Barrett. Yes. Do you think it has anything to do with
the reimbursement rates and what they can qualify for under a
4-year program versus a trade opportunity, the apprenticeship
programs, and some of the just I guess, reimbursement and other
value ability of some of these programs that are available to
them?
Mr. Smith. It could be. There are a number of instances
where if you look at a 4-year--you know, what we pay for a 4-
year college degree----
Mr. Barrett. Yes.
Mr. Smith [continuing]. the total package value would be
much higher than for a noncollege degree or an apprenticeship
program.
Mr. Barrett. Okay. Then I know I actually was in Michigan a
few weeks ago in my district and met with a man who runs this
group, Workshops for Warriors. I think he has actually
testified in front of this subcommittee last Congress. He told
me that there is a cap. He runs a trade program, a skilled
trade apprenticeship-type program that gives certification to
veterans, things like that. I think he told me there is a cap
for an institution of how many of their students can receive GI
Bill and other veteran benefits. Is that true, that there is a
limitation there for institutions?
Mr. Smith. There is a statutory requirement for 85 percent.
It is an 85-15 rule, up to 85 percent supportable through
government programs.
Mr. Barrett. Is there a waiver available for that or would
that need to be provided in law?
Mr. Smith. Yes. I am sorry, I said that backward, 85
percent nonfunded, 15 percent funded. We can give a waiver to
allow someone to exceed 35 percent as well, so that that waiver
opportunity is available.
Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Appreciate it.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back with 10 seconds
to go.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy from the great State
of New York.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Thank you all for being here, your
testimony.
The GI Bill is a sacred promise that helps veterans pursue
education, transition into civilian life, and provide for their
families, including the survivors and children of those who
have sacrificed everything. Our responsibility on this
committee is to ensure that that promise remains strong.
A recent negotiated rule from the Department of Education
on loan limits for certain advanced graduate degrees has raised
serious concerns, especially for veterans pursuing fields like
nursing, education, physical and occupational therapy, social
work, and many other advanced degrees in healthcare,
particularly, but not exclusively. These are students and
veterans who rely on both GI benefits and Federal loans to
cover the full cost of their programs.
We need answers about delays as well on Chapter 35 benefits
for survivors and dependents. The VA has not responded to
congressional inquiries and recent staffing cuts affecting
payment processing is certainly troubling. These issues require
immediate attention. The delay is beyond concerning. It is
infuriating, quite frankly.
Mr. Smith, countless Americans, including future nurses,
therapists, and other essential healthcare providers, are
worried they may no longer be able to complete their graduate
professional degree programs under the Department of
Education's rule that restricts access to Federal loans for
certain healthcare professions. Veterans relying on GI Bill
benefits deserve immediate clarity. Is it your understanding
that GI Bill coverage for professional degree programs like
nursing, physical and occupational therapy, and others will
remain entirely separate from and completely unaffected by the
Department of Education's draft rule?
Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I am unaware of
the details of the Department of Education's draft rule, but we
do pay benefits up to the annual max amount set by Congress for
private schools. For public schools, there is no limit. As
well, the Yellow Ribbon program allows veterans to--and allows
schools to match 50 percent to exceed that the max cap that is
set each year.
Mr. Kennedy. The rule that was passed in the Big Ugly Bill,
it cuts the ability for a student in half to achieve their
Federal loan need. My question is very simple. Will that impact
our veterans who also rely on the GI Bill?
Mr. Smith. We will continue to administer GI Bill payments
just as we always have. I cannot imagine a deference to the
Department of Education on that.
Mr. Kennedy. Okay. You do not know the answer?
Mr. Smith. I do not know.
Mr. Kennedy. Okay. Well, unfortunately, that does not
answer my question. Obviously, veterans, including those
pursuing these advanced degrees in healthcare, need clear
guidance and assurances. Many are still going to require
Federal loans even after using their GI Bill benefits. If those
loans are restricted under this rule, it is going to impede
their ability to afford their education. Hence, they are not
going to go into these healthcare roles where the need for
nursing by 2033, we are told from the Bureau of Labor
Statistics, we need to be hiring 200,000 nurses a year to
achieve where we need to be. We are already behind the eight
ball and we know our veterans make great nurses and healthcare
practitioners across the board.
I am curious how the VA is assessing the impact on these VA
benefits. You know, how are our returning veterans that are
trying to go into these fields, how are they going to be
impacted?
Mr. Smith. The statute allows us to pay 36 months of
benefits in the post--under the post 9-11 GI Bill program. We
will continue to deliver benefits to include both tuition and
fees, books and supplies, as well as the monthly housing
allowance to all veterans who are in the program.
Mr. Kennedy. I think this is essential that the VA consider
moving forward is how to prevent veterans who have served our
Nation from being denied access or being pushed out of the
field that they would like to go into, especially with such a
great need for healthcare practitioners in this country.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the
beautiful Northern Mariana Islands.
Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the
witnesses for the opportunity to have a conversation this
morning.
You know, jobs, right, we are here because we want to talk
about how we get these vets employed. One of the things that I
always hear back home that makes me laugh, but makes me kind of
sad, is when I see certain vets, they are like, thank you for
your service, but where is the service for my service? Right? I
think there are gaps in terms of some of these programs that
they are entitled to, that is not translating into them after
leaving service to get into a career where some of these
benefits that are currently provided for is not leading to that
path.
I also sit in the Small Business Committee. One of the
conversations that we had last week with some of the panelists
is, you know, just the shortage of workers in certain
industries, like manufacturing. Right? One of the panelists
said something that really struck me, which was, you know, it
is not--it should not be education for all, but careers for
all. What we are seeing as a trend across the country is that
there are all these jobs that are just very hard to fill
because we do not have the skilled labor.
I am listening to the conversation that we are having about
the GI Bill and, you know, Rep. Barrett's question with regards
to the amount of benefits that are given for 4-year degree
programs versus these technical trade schools types of programs
that are available. Obviously, folks are going to be
incentivized to pursue the 4-year route, right, if you are
going to get more money.
How do we look at that gap and create an opportunity where
trade school education has the same value as a 4-year degree
within the system? It is an open-ended question to both of you.
Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. I think we are
certainly willing to help Congress and we can meet with you as
well as with employers and other stakeholders to have that
conversation about the policy issues and how to resolve those
through new statute.
Ms. King-Hinds. Did you want to chime in, Ms. Stovall?
Ms. Stovall. I would say in my short 4 months that I have
been in this position, it has been rather exploratory. I do
know that we have some areas where we can focus more on
employment and that is one of the areas that I am looking to
improve. Currently, we do have 96 percent of our participants
that are following our employment through long-term services
track and only about 2.5 percent that are in our rapid access
track, which is the track that we use for veterans that have
skills and may just need resume development and job development
services to help them.
I am looking into that to see what is driving that high
usage rate of our employment through long-term services track
to see how we can improve and leverage participation of our
other tracks that may be more appropriate. We do know that
veterans come out of the military with multiple skill sets and
so we need to figure out what we need to do to make sure that
we are utilizing them and we are looking at how we can return
them to the employment market.
Ms. King-Hinds. Do you see some sort of perhaps an
accrediting system as something that would be beneficial? That
when, you know, folks are in the military who already developed
a certain skill, right, when they come out, some sort of an
accrediting body can now take whatever that skill level is so
that they are not now having to replicate the same training
that they have already had and that they have already been
doing, but could actually have physical paperwork to say I am
qualified, I am certified, I have the credentials.
Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. I do believe that
it is, for VR&E, I think it is important for us to help them
identify how they are able to sell themselves and when they are
talking to employers.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from the great State
of Illinois.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Ranking
Member, for having us in this hearing today. I want to thank
both of our witnesses who are joining us today.
It has been a couple months since this subcommittee met and
a lot has happened in those 5 months. I want to go ahead and
start, since I am not sure when we will have another committee
hearing, to talk a little bit about the effects of the last 5
months. Really, I want to talk about the impact that the
government shutdown had on veterans.
Mr. Smith, I want to go ahead and start with you. Mr.
Smith, for the record, did the government shutdown negatively
affect veterans? Yes or no?
Mr. Smith. Yes.
Ms.Ramirez. Thank you. Yes. Just for the record, I
appreciate you answering honestly here. 1.2 million veterans
were at risk of losing Supplemental Nutrition Assistance
Program (SNAP) benefits, as you know. More than 75,000 veterans
and their family members had their tuition and housing payments
delayed after the software problem stopped the automated
delivery of their benefits. We also know that 56 VA Regional
Benefit Offices were closed to the public, and more than 16,000
servicemembers preparing to leave the military were unable to
receive the VA transition briefings.
Mr. Smith, recognizing that you saw the impact, did the
government furlough any veteran employees at the VA? Yes or no?
Mr. Smith. Did we furlough----
Ms.Ramirez. Did you furlough any veteran employees at the
Veteran Affairs Department?
Mr. Smith. I am sure we did.
Ms. Ramirez. Yes, you did. According to the VA press
release, 37,000 VA employees were furloughed, and estimates
that are about 120,000 veterans that work for the VA also were
impacted. It is likely that many, many veterans were
furloughed.
Mr. Smith, did the government shutdown have any negative
impact on veterans trying to access educational benefits like
the GI Bill hotline or the VR&E counseling case management? Yes
or no?
Mr. Smith. The education call center was closed during the
shutdown.
Ms. Ramirez. It was impacted. Okay.
Just for the record, I just want to make sure we note this
since we have not met for the last 5 months, and this shutdown
by the majority really had an impact. I want to make sure I put
this on the record. More than 900,000 veterans were unable to
get assistance from the GI Bill hotline. More than 100,000
enrolled veterans did not get their Veteran Readiness and
Employment program, counseling, or case management services. By
October 30, there was a backlog of new applicants for the
program of more than 61,988 applications. I want to make sure I
put that on the record.
I also want to state that I was extremely frustrated that
my staff were working around the clock every single day and
they were unable to connect with the congressional liaison when
they were attempting to advocate on behalf of the veterans that
I represent. The Secretary directed leaders and staff within
the VA to use congressionally appropriated funds to send these
politically charged messages to veterans and congressional
staff about the shutdown, which I think is a clear violation of
the Hatch Act, instead of trying to work with us to try to help
them. I want to make sure that I note this because the shutdown
may have ended, but the impact is still there.
With that, the last minute and a half I have, I want to
talk a little bit more about workforce opportunities here.
Access to a quality education is one of the promises we made to
veterans and we must deliver. The VET TEC is now drowning on GI
Bill benefits, yet VA's own data shows that the VET TEC's
employment rate is only at 49 percent within the 180 days of
program completion.
Mr. Smith, when VA's own data shows that the VET TEC fails
to leave to employment for more than half of participating
veterans, is not restoring their GI Bill benefits essential so
veterans are not stuck paying the price when their training
fails to yield gainful employment?
Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. Based on the statute
and design of the VET TEC program authorized by the Elizabeth
Dole Act, if there is no remaining entitlement, the veteran is
allowed to train without cost, so they are allowed to enroll
and pursue the VET TEC program. Then they are charged
entitlement if they do have remaining entitlement.
Ms.Ramirez. Yet half of the participating veterans are not
getting their restorated GI Bill benefits. I just want to make
sure I note that because the purpose is to be able to help them
get gainful employment. That is why, you know, I think some of
us have been working the last few years.
I have 10 seconds left, Chairman. I worked on the Student
Veteran Benefit Restoration Act and I am going to be
reintroducing it. It will be really important for us to work
bipartisan the way we did before to make sure this bill finally
passes.
With that, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields back.
The chair now recognizes my great friend, Mr. Juan
Ciscomani from the State of Arizona.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chairman. Thank
you all for the witnesses here for being here as well to
testify about this important topic.
You know, as our country continues to face shortages in key
industries like electrical work, trucking, manufacturing, and
energy, this committee must ensure that veterans are made aware
of every pathway to a meaningful career. In a recent survey,
more than 70 percent of Veteran Readiness Employment
participants of the VR&E enter into an undergraduate program
where about 3-1/2 percent entered into a vocational or
technical program and participation rates on for on-the-job
training remain especially low. Given the robust wages and
impressive employment outcomes associated with these programs,
it is clear that significant improvements in outreach are
needed.
My bill, H.R. 1458, the Veteran Education and Technical
Skills Opportunity Act, the Veterans Education and Technical
Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, expands access to vocational and
technical training by extending educational benefits in the
post 9-11 GI Bill to include both in-person and hybrid versions
of skilled trade training programs in order to address skilled
trade labor shortages. Today's hearing is an opportunity to
learn how the VA is refocusing on all educational pathways,
degrees and non-degrees, and the best ways we can assist
veterans in obtaining high-paying jobs and strengthen the
American workforce and the shortages associated with that.
I have got a--I want to start off with a question here
regarding the Dole Act. Now, Mr. Smith, this is for you. The
Dole Act was signed into law last January and it included
improvements to the VET TEC program that is very key to the
issues that we are talking about here. Now, the VA now it says
that it is going to implement the VET TEC program into the
first quarter of 2026. That is well over a year after this was
signed into law. This is, quite frankly, unacceptable. I am not
sure why it is taking so long, especially given that Congress
paid for the provisions to this almost immediately.
I am also on the Appropriations Committee, so I know that
well. We had the legislation and we had the appropriated funds
for that as well. Why has it taken this long and why cannot we
implement it today?
Mr. Smith. Sir, thank you for the question. We have been
working to build a payment or a claims processing and payment
system to support the VET TEC program. Because of the changes
to the underlying program, the requirements changed and we
needed to make changes to our claims processing tool.
Second, our new payment processing system needs to be
updated so that it can also process and pay those. We are
looking to do that in third quarter of this year, be done in
third quarter of this year, so that we can field that program.
Mr. Ciscomani. Third quarter of this year?
Mr. Smith. Yes, 2026.
Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, next year then you are talking about.
Mr. Smith. We are in Fiscal Year 2026. I am sorry.
Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, Okay. On the fiscal year, gotcha.
Well, there has got to be a way to be able to speed this
up. I mean, the funds are there. The legislation was passed.
This has a direct impact on where we want to go here with
workforce, especially when we talk about the traits and so on.
I am hoping to maybe get a little more concrete timeline or
what is in the way of this. I do want to add some friendly
pressure here because this is--time is of the essence here.
Again, it has been--it will be over a year by the time
that, you know, your stated goal of quarter 1 gets implemented.
Hopefully, we can get on that pretty quickly. I would
appreciate an update on that when you have a more specific
timeline.
Mr. Smith. Will do.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Now, let me move on to another
question. I cannot see my time here, Mr. Chairman. One minute.
Okay. Well, I do not have a lot of time, but so I will move to
Ms. Stovall, if we can do that.
The VR&E meta data report highlights that, like I said,
only 3-1/2 percent of veterans in the program pursue vocational
or technical training and just about 0.4 percent participate in
apprenticeships. What do you believe is driving such low
participation in the career-building pathway, specifically on
this one? What strategies can be implementing to increase
awareness and enrollment in those programs?
Ms. Stovall. That is one of the areas that I am looking
into, sir, to determine, you know, what is driving the high
participation rates in training programs. What I have tasked my
staff with is looking at what are our top 4-year degree
programs and how can we match those with apprenticeships and
OJTs that currently exist that may be a better route to help
our veterans enter employment more quickly?
Mr. Ciscomani. I agree. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I would
say that, you know, I think we, at least in Arizona or in
Tucson, we may need not as many more attorneys, but we need
more on the trades. We are missing that for sure. If we can----
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Ciscomani. No offense to any of the attorneys in the
room here, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Not me.
Mr. Ciscomani. No, I am not looking at you. I am looking
past you.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. Ciscomani. Okay.
Mr. Van Orden. We are good. Mr. Kennedy? Maybe. I do not
know. The gentleman's time has expired.
The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State
of Kentucky.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This hearing is pretty simple. We want to make sure that
our veterans, our men and women who put on the uniform, can
build a good life and a good career after they transition away
from the military. We know that there are some successful
programs. The GI Bill has done a great job, but not all
veterans need a 4-year degree. In fact, there are a lot of
programs out there that can help, but the fact is veterans are
not using these nondegree options.
We got to build some pathways. This is like, I hate using
government speak. Let us not talk about pathways. Veterans need
jobs and we got to make sure that they have what they need to
get jobs. We have some things out there. Skill Bridge, these
are registered apprenticeships, union training programs,
industry partnerships. We know how this can work. Our
collective responsibility, both on this committee and at the VA
is to make sure that our veterans are not burning through their
benefits only to be left with nothing really to show for it at
the end.
We need accountability. We got to have some clarity. We got
to have some employer partnerships that deliver results for our
veterans. We got to make sure that our veterans who have
already shown the initiative to put on that uniform, to go into
the service, can take the skills they have there and use them
in the civilian world to get a good job and have a good life
for their families.
I look at this statistic. I am going to follow up on what
Mr. Ciscomani said a minute ago. Fewer than 20 percent of their
veterans right now use the GI Bill for nondegree options. Only
20 percent. Your testimony today has stated this may be due to
a lack of wider awareness. Not using government speak, let us
talk about this in a real way. What percentage of our veterans
do you think should be using their GI Bill for nondegree
options? What is the VA doing to make sure they know about
these options and where they exist?
Mr. Smith. I will ask Ms. Stovall to respond in a second.
First let me say I think there is an awareness problem. Both VA
needs to be communicating with employers, partnering with
employers to overcome that apprehension behind, you know,
entering into a formal arrangement where they will be
submitting enrollments and other documentation to VA.
Second, while we address this in PCPG, all of the pathways
for education benefits, I think that we need to do a better job
of other marketing around the idea of what opportunities are
available for all of these different avenues.
You know, we are limited in some degree based on the
statute. We deliver the benefit, we do not advise. That is
where Ms. Stovall's team comes in, so I will ask her to add
just a little bit to that.
Ms. Stovall. Under VR&E, the way that the statute is
written, a veteran is able to identify a vocational goal and
based on that vocational goal would receive the training,
whether that is a degree, diploma, or certification. They
receive the training that is recognized for entry into that
field. Based on comprehensive assessments, the VRC, or
vocational rehabilitation counselor, will work with them to
determine what the most appropriate goal would be to get them
to suitable employment.
Mr. McGarvey. 20 percent right now are using the GI Bill
for nondegree options. Do you think that number should be
higher or lower?
Ms. Stovall. I would defer that to Mr. Smith.
Mr. Smith. I do not have an opinion. I do not know what the
right number should be.
Mr. McGarvey. Okay, Okay. Right now, it says that VR&E
employment outcomes are at 74 percent for program completers.
We have learned that counselor shortages and long wait times
are part of this problem. Right now, VR&E employment outcomes
are at 74 percent. That needs to be higher. Right? We have
heard about counselor shortages, long wait times. How are we
fixing this problem to make sure that veterans do not have to
wait months just to start?
Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. We are looking at
increasing--well, there is a couple things we are doing as far
as our transformation efforts to make sure that we can render
timely services. We have implemented a new case assignment
system. We have--actually, I forgot to mention it earlier, but
we do have 91 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) that we will be
onboarding this month to help with our vacant--fill those
vacancies. We are also continuing to use some of our help teams
to assist with backlogs.
Mr. McGarvey. We are out of time. I have more thing. I do
want to point out, Mr. Chairman, graduation rates look Okay,
but only half of graduates land meaningful employment within
180 days. That is 6 months without a paycheck, so we got to do
better.
Mr. Van Orden. Roger that. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Part of this issue is back in the 1970's for some reason
everybody thought that every single American needed to go to a
4-year college. They treated the rest of us that decided to
join the military at 18 like we are less people, and that is
not the case. The trades are where it is at. If you want to
work with your hands, work with your hands because that is how
America is built. America is not built because somebody has a
degree in 13th century French poetry. It is because a dude went
to one of these union shops and became a carpenter. Let us just
remember that.
These numbers should be higher. The goal is employment. It
is not a piece of paper on a wall. Let us always remember that.
A lot of these things I think, you know, my colleagues are
concerned about. I am, too. I think we need to look at making
sure that our TAP program addresses this more, that we educate
our folks getting out of the military about the trades. Show
them that, you know, you can make an exceptionally good living
by being a tradesman.
I went, gee, it was last year, I was driving by, you know,
doing doors and stuff when I was running for office, a year and
a half ago, I guess. There was this dude there, he had this
great house and this bitching boat and a truck and all this
stuff. I stopped, I asked him what he did for a living. He said
he is a lineman and his wife went to a tech school and she was
an X-ray tech. You can live a very, very high-quality life by
working with your hands. I just need to make sure that
everybody understands that.
Mr. Smith, DOL-VETS is not here today, and we talked about
that earlier. I think it is because of the intransigence of the
Senate. We need to get those people in here. Can you tell me
any redundancies between you and DOL-VETS? Between the
Department of Veterans Affairs and the DOL-VETS.
Mr. Smith. I do not believe there is any redundancy. We
certainly partner with DOL-VETS and we leverage their
registration process for apprenticeships and we then accept
them. We deem them as approved.
Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Smith, you guys have similar workforce
programs, homeless programs. There are a lot of redundancies
and we see these all the time. Can you tell me all these
processing things that we have going on, it just seems like it
is taking a long time. Do you guys use any type of innovative
technologies to accelerate the process of registering? We have
got a shortage of our counselors. What type of automated
processes are in place to help speed along all of these
functions?
Mr. Smith. In education, we are very interested in
automation. Right now we are automating more than 50 percent of
our claims to speed benefits to people. Mostly--or benefits are
actually delivered in less than 15 minutes. You can apply for a
certificate of eligibility and, you know, in a matter of
minutes know that you are eligible to use your benefits for any
number of programs.
Mr. Van Orden. Then it takes, what, 81 days, ma'am, to get
rolling? Is that right?
Ms. Stovall. Eighty-one days in reference to?
Mr. Van Orden. Did not you say it takes 81 days to get
these things done for the Army?
Ms. Stovall. The wait time.
Mr. Van Orden. The wait time.
Ms. Stovall. The wait time. Correct.
Mr. Van Orden. If it can be automated in 15 minutes, Mr.
Smith, why does it take 81 days for completion?
Mr. Smith. That is on the education side, to provide an
entitlement determination for the GI Bill.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. Smith. Vocational rehabilitation has a different
process, you know, that requires some additional work on the
front end.
Mr. Van Orden. Well, so I used VR&E, and I do not
understand, I mean, you sit down and you fill out this battery
of questions, then you talk to somebody. I do not know why that
takes 81 days. I mean, I just--I simply do not understand that.
Ms. Stovall. We have, with our new case management system,
Readiness and Employment System, or RES, we have been able to
automate the eligibility process.
Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
Ms. Stovall. With that, that has reduced the wait time for
a veteran to be seen by a case manager for an entitlement
decision.
Mr. Van Orden. Yes, we have lower--we got a bill through
the House that lowered the education requirement for these
counselors; used to have a master's degree for this. I do not
mean to disparage the folks that are doing this job, but it
simply is not that complicated. More automation, more better.
We just have to get over this institutional inertia that is the
VA and focus on the veterans. I know that you guys are doing
that pretty well.
With that, I yield back. We will--with that, I yield back,
and we will be dismissing this panel. Thank you so much for
your time. I appreciate it greatly. We will take a short break
while we empanel the next question group.
[Recess.]
Mr. Van Orden. The committee will come to order.
On our second panel, we are going to hear from the
following witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Greg Hamm, vice
president of field and government recruiting at Werner
Enterprise, testifying on behalf of the American Trucking
Associations (ATA). Our next witness is Gary LaBarbera, Jr.
Where? There you are. Business agent, Teamsters Local 282, and
Helmets to Hardhats trade advisor, testifying on behalf of the
International Brotherhood of Teamsters. I want to thank First
Sergeant LaBarbera for his service. He just retired. First
shirt, good job. Semper Fi. We just had our 250th birthday.
Kind of a big deal. Hope you had a good time. Woke up with a
headache, probably. Our third witness is Mr. Jerome A. Grant,
chief executive officer (CEO) at Universal Technical Institute
(UTI). Our fourth witness is from the great State of Wisconsin.
Mr. Vang, it is wonderful to see you. Human resources manager
at ORC Industries. I want to thank Mr. Vang for being here and
representing my home State. It is great to see you, sir. Our
final witness is Mr. Dave Bostic, service development manager,
aftermarket and customer support for Region 4, testifying on
behalf of Deere & Company.
I would like all the witnesses to stand and raise your
right hand, please.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Very well. You may be seated. Let the record
reflect that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Hamm, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony.
STATEMENT OF GREG HAMM
Mr. Hamm. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member
Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting
me to testify on behalf of the American Trucking Associations
and Werner Enterprises. My name is Greg Hamm. I am the vice
president of field and government recruiting at Werner
Enterprises. As a proud U.S. Army veteran, I understand, both
personally and professionally, the challenges that come with
transition into the civilian role.
The Army transformed my life by giving me the discipline to
do things the right way, even when no one is watching, the grit
to push through when things get hard, and the commitment to
finish what I start, and a sense of honor that comes from being
part of something bigger than myself. These are the same
qualities that I see in veterans embarking on civilian careers.
It is why I am devoted to helping find them opportunities in
the trucking industry.
At Werner, we take pride in being one of the Nation's
largest and most dedicated employers of veterans and military
families. Our average driver earns over $75,000 a year, and
many earn well into the six figures. Approximately 20 percent,
or 1 in 5, of our 13,000 associates are military-connected and
our goal is to reach 25 percent, or 1 in 4. Our team of veteran
recruiters has walked the same path as the men and women that
we serve.
Veterans entering Werner can pursue careers ranging from
professional drivers to technicians to safety roles,
operations, logistics management. We extend educational
support, tuition assistance, and military community resource
groups to ensure that veterans and spouses have the tools they
need to thrive.
Werner's holistic approach to career development has
produced countless success stories. One example is Sergeant
Eric Macedo, who served over 6 years in the Army as a mechanic.
Despite his extensive experience maintaining complex equipment
and leading soldiers, he struggled to translate his skills into
the civilian career. By using his GI Bill benefits to enroll in
Werner's Registered Apprenticeship program, he earned a CDL,
quickly advanced at our company, and today he serves as a road
team captain and as a mentor. Eric frequently tells us that the
structure and the community that he rediscovered at Werner
restored his sense of purpose that he felt in the service.
Eric's story underscores what is possible when policymakers
and employers work hand in hand. The Federal Government can
help more veterans like Eric by increasing funding for the
Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) Operator Safety Training Grant
program, CMVOST, which will expand access to quality CDL
programs; passing Chairman Van Orden's Warriors to Workforce
Act to ease the housing burden on veterans undergoing job
training; passing the Veterans Transition to Trucking Act to
reduce the VA's red tape on apprenticeship programs; and
passing the TRANSPORT Jobs Act to make it easier for veterans
and their spouses to find jobs in the supply chain.
Each year, approximately 200,000 servicemembers separate
from the U.S. armed forces. In trucking and across the country,
the benefits of hiring veterans are clear: the work ethic,
leadership, adaptability, teamwork, high moral standard and
character, and the ability to operate under pressure. Veterans
bring the values that make the workplace and the supply chain
stronger. Hiring them is not charity. This is smart business.
Ranking Member Pappas and Chairman Van Orden demonstrated
their commitment to expanding meaningful career pathways for
those who have served by spearheading the passage of the
Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act last year.
I am confident that this subcommittee will build on that
progress to empower veterans and their families and employers
to broaden and broaden our economy in the months ahead.
I appreciate the opportunity to join you here today and I
hope to contribute constructively to your efforts to strengthen
America's veteran workforce. I look forward to answering your
questions. Thank you very much.
[The Prepared Statement Of Greg Hamm Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
Mr. Hamm and Mr. Vang, I did not recognize your service,
but you were in the Army so I am not supposed to. Just throwing
that out there. Hey.
Sorry. That was for you for sure, for sure.
I now recognize Mr. LaBarbera, Jr., to deliver his opening
statement.
STATEMENT OF GARY LABARBERA
Mr. LaBarbera. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking
Member Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to testify today on these critical issues. My
name is Gary LaBarbera, Jr., and I currently serve as a
business agent for Teamsters Local 282 in New York City as well
as the Teamsters trade advisor to Helmets to Hardhats, working
to create employment opportunities for veterans working as
Teamsters in the building construction trades.
I retired from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023 as a
company first sergeant, Company A-125, following two
deployments for Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and one for
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF). My experience is also one of
a successful transition from military service to civilian union
employment.
Following my first deployment, I obtained my commercial
driver's license and began driving a truck while serving in
Reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my
career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy
construction industry in New York City.
In total, The Teamsters represent 1.3 million members,
including tens of thousands of veterans currently serving
Reservists and military spouses, and we appreciate the
subcommittee's attention to this issue. We appreciate the
committee's longstanding bipartisan efforts to improve the
lives of veterans and to ensure that when they transition they
can access careers that allow them to take care of themselves
and their families. It is my hope that from today's hearing
that the takeaway I can leave you with is the role that the
Teamsters have and continue to play in securing employment for
veterans like me, thousands of current members and future
transitioning veterans.
As I mentioned, I am the Teamsters representative to the
Helmets to Hardhats program, which provides opportunities
within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the
unionized building trades and has connected nearly 55,000
veterans to good paying careers since 2003, 13,000 of which
over the past 5 years. We are able to achieve this through many
partnerships with trade unions, employers, Department of Labor,
and many others. I have worked with countless veterans
connecting them to local training centers and employers,
affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as
Teamsters in the construction industry.
I have also had many discussions with our locals and
training centers who are committed to aiding our Nation's
veterans and seek them out while looking to grow their
workforce. I view this program to be a model of how labor can
play an essential role in securing good jobs and careers for
veterans.
The Teamsters' efforts in this area have been significant
and wide-reaching. Over the years, our airline division
membership realized that we were failing to transition military
aircraft mechanics into civilian service. While we counted many
veterans among the Teamster-represented pilots, we did not see
this among the nearly 10,000 aircraft mechanics we represent,
largely United Airlines. We led an effort to streamline the
process in the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
Reauthorization Bill, which the Federal Aviation Administration
is currently working to complete. We thank Committee Chairman
Bost for his leadership in securing that language.
Trucking has long been a strong source of employment for
veterans, but also an industry where opportunity presents
itself to work with Congress. For example, we thank
Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
other members of the committee for their leadership on the
Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act, which was
signed into law last year and cut unnecessary red tape for CDL
training.
Uniquely, Teamster Locals across the country also operate
our own free or no cost CDL training programs which frequently
work with transitioning veterans. Our programs graduate highly
skilled drivers with pathways to stable and well-paid
employment. The Teamsters are very interested in expanding our
programs and searching for ways to do so in conjunction with
Congress. For example, through a large expansion of the
Department of Transportation's Commercial Motor Vehicle
Operator Safety Training, CMVOST, Competitive Grant Program.
Last year the program received less than $4 million in total.
By increasing the funding for this program substantially,
Teamster Locals can secure these available funds to expand
existing programs, increasing offerings, and open new programs
where they currently do not exist.
I should also note that the program is a perfect fit for
today's discussion. The law already creates preference for
programs which serve veterans, a requirement we strongly
support. We are prioritizing expansion of CMVOST in ongoing
surface transportation reauthorization discussions and hope for
your support as negotiations on that bill continue.
Finally, we know that members of this subcommittee and the
full committee have put forth numerous proposals on veteran
employment and will continue to do so. The Teamsters are fully
committed to working with all members on this shared goal and
it is our hope we can both work with you on advancing those
priorities and that in shaping proposals, programs, and new
initiatives that you consider the ability of the Teamsters to
be a partner in those efforts. We are proud to represent the
greatest range of industries and occupations of any labor
organization in this country and have a demonstrated track
record of commitment to our Nation's veterans.
I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today
and look forward to any questions you may have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Gary LaBarbera Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, First Sergeant. Both your and Mr.
Hamm's record--or, excuse me, written testimony will be entered
into the hearing record.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Grant for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JEROME GRANT
Mr. Grant. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas,
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
speak to you today. It is an honor to speak with you about
something that is core to our work and essential to our
Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage career
pathways for America's veterans.
My name is Jerome Grant and I serve as CEO of Universal
Technical Institute, which includes UTI and Concord Career
Colleges. Across our 32 campuses we focus entirely on hands-on,
career-focused education in fields that keep this country
running: automotive, diesel technology, aviation, welding,
electrical, and energy trades. On the Concord side, nursing,
dental professions, respiratory therapy, surgical technology,
and other critical healthcare fields.
Last year we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military
affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our
population. They are central to our mission. They bring
discipline, maturity, problem solving, and leadership that
elevate every classroom they are in. At UTI and Concord, we
have built a support system around them: dedicated admissions,
financial aid, counselors trained on VA benefits, military
scholarships, salute to service tuition reductions, career
coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies.
Our measure of success is straightforward. Four out of five
of UTI's graduates are employed in their field of study within
a year. Our success is measured across the full employment
cycle. We support graduates for life with placement assistance
and continuing education that is complementary because, much
like the military, they carry our name long after they leave
ranks. With new campuses opening, this impact will continue to
grow.
One of the most powerful examples of what works is our
partnership with the Department of Defense through Skill
Bridge. UTI operates three on-base programs at Fort Bliss, Fort
Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of the more than 3,500 Skill
Bridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200 operate on
bases.
Our Skill Bridge programs offer free on-base housing for
servicemembers, guardsmen, and revision reservists coming from
other installations. It also is open to dependents because we
support the whole military family, not just the servicemember.
We are honored to be among them. We hope to see the base
commands embrace these important transition opportunities for
servicemembers.
These programs cost the servicemembers nothing. Over just
12 to 16 weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel
technician training that leads to civilian jobs with starting
wages above $50,000. There is no gap between leaving the
military and entering the workforce. It is immediate with life-
changing impact and we should be doing more of it.
We also work closely with the United Service Organizations
(USO) and U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hiring Our Heroes program to
deliver transition workshops, career preparation, and direct
connections to employers. In every industry we serve, whether
it is the skilled trades or healthcare, the message from
employers is the same: we need more talent. Veterans are an
ideal fit for these skilled collared careers that value
discipline, teamwork, and technical ability.
We are proud to be recognized as a military-friendly school
and veterans-friendly institution. What really matters is not
the designation, it is outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring
veterans leave us with strong credentials and even stronger
careers.
As for the opportunity to create more visibility into high-
paying jobs and skilled trades, I could not agree more with
what Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, said just a couple weeks ago.
The skill gap in the United States is no longer a distant
warning. It is a present day crisis.
When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technical
jobs sitting unfilled it tells us one thing: our country must
dramatically expand the training pipeline for skilled technical
careers that keep America moving. Veterans are often well-
suited for these skilled trade jobs.
At Universal Technical Institute and Concord Career
Colleges, we are focused every day on solving this problem.
Across our nationwide campuses, UTI trains students in
automotive, diesel, Electric Vehicle (EV), hybrid systems,
welding, aviation maintenance, electrical, and energy
technology, the very roles Ford and the entire transportation
and mobility sectors urgently need.
As part of UTI's success is our industry-leading
partnerships and manufacturers allow us to offer both industry
and company-specific training sought by our employers. We have
manufacturer-specific advanced training programs with Ford,
General Motors, Daimler Trucks, Cummins Engines, and several
other incredible manufacturers.
We are eager to expand these partnerships with leading
manufacturers to meet the needs of the moment. That includes
scaling EV and next generation propulsion training, creating
more Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) aligned curriculum
and growing career pathways, opening additional on-base
programs, and working together to recruit more veterans, career
changers, and young adults to these skilled collared careers.
America cannot remain competitive without a strong
technical workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate and
partner----
[The Prepared Statement Of Jerome Grant Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlemen's time has expired. Sir, your
written testimony will be entered into the record.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Bostic for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF DAVID BOSTIC
Mr. Bostic. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. My name is David Bostic and I am here on behalf
of John Deere to share information about an issue that affects
thousands of transition servicemembers every year, which is the
successful reintegration into the civilian workforce.
As you know, our Nation's veterans bring unmatched skills
and resilience to their communities. Yet despite these
strengths, many face significant challenges transitioning from
military service. This issue hits me close to home. In 1997,
fresh out of high school, I started work as a technician at a
John Deere dealership in Lexington, Illinois. Except for the
years spent in college and in the Marine Corps, I have spent my
career supporting John Deere customers, first with a wrench in
my hand and then in every single corporate role I have held at
John Deere for the past 18 years.
John Deere manufactures equipment and technology that
enables our customers to produce the food, fiber, fuel, and
infrastructure that supports a growing global population. To
accomplish this, we employ over 30,000 employees across 16 U.S.
states, including 250 employees in Chairman Van Orden's
district. We do not do this alone. John Deere equipment is sold
and serviced by a network of independently owned dealers, like
United Ag and Turf and James R. Rosencrantz & Sons in
Congressman Pappas' district. These are small businesses
embedded in thousands of communities across the United States
that employ an additional 50,000 people. Currently, these
dealerships face a critical shortage of skilled workers,
especially equipment technicians.
John Deere has always been a staunch supporter of this
country's military and its veterans. Over the past several
years, we have taken greater strides to advocate and support
for veterans. In 2019, a team of fellow veterans and I launched
John Deere's military hiring program. It was designed to help
connect dealers with technicians to close the skilled trades
gap.
Our goal was simple. We were set out to follow three key
principles. First, be simple to navigate for servicemembers and
dealerships. My team and I take on as much of the logistical
and paperwork workload as possible. Second, add value to the
servicemember and their potential employer. To do this, we
provide free training to the candidates. This helps sets them
up for success and it helps translate the skills that they have
gained in the military into terms civilian employers can
understand. Last, we stay focused on positive outcomes. Our
goal is not charity or good press. Our goal is the successful
employment of our participants.
Since 2019, our dealers have hired approximately 800
veterans, including hosting over 300 Skill Bridge interns,
which has become a cornerstone of our military hiring program.
Today, I urge the subcommittee to consider stronger
partnerships between the government and employers to manage
transition programs like Skill Bridge.
Employers are on the front lines of the workforce
development. We understand the skills needed, the gaps, and the
potential that veterans can bring to their organizations. By
involving employers directly, we can ensure programs are
relevant and responsive to a rapidly changing labor market.
Here are three key recommendations. First, formalize
employer advisory councils to help shape transition programs
like Skill Bridge, ensuring alignment with industry needs.
Second, expand incentives for small and midsize employers to
hire veterans and participate in programs like Skill Bridge. At
John Deere, we are able to leverage our size and infrastructure
to help our independent dealers navigate this process. Many
small businesses would benefit from a similar model. Third,
create a centralized employer portal to streamline veterans'
benefits, track outcomes, and share best practices across
industries. Well-intentioned businesses often struggle to
navigate the existing systems and connect with the right
resources.
In closing, I ask for your leadership to create a future
where the government, veterans, and employers have a clear path
to create positive economic opportunities. It is often said
that the best recruiting tool the military has is a
servicemember that becomes a successful civilian.
Thank you for your time and commitment to those who have
worn the uniform.
[The Prepared Statement Of David Bostic Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Mr. Bostic, your
written testimony will be entered into the record.
I am going to throw a little Semper Fi to you, too. Kilo
Company, is that right?
Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir, Kilo 324.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Al Anbar? Al Anbar?
Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Garden spot, was not it? It was not at all.
Yes.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Vang for 5 minutes. Before I
say this, Mr. Vang, I have been to your facility and it is
remarkable. What you guys do there is life-changing for so many
people. It gets not just the veteran side. I am talking about
some of the other folks that are there. They take tremendous
pride in getting up and going to work. They are part of a
community. They are supporting themselves and their family. I
want to personally thank you for changing the lives of
thousands of people. It is just remarkable.
With that, sir, I yield to you for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF YING VANG
Mr. Vang. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
strengthening the veteran workforce through nontraditional
career path in manufacturing. My name is Yang Vang. I am here
on behalf of ORC Industries, a not-for-profit manufacturer
dedicated to creating meaningful employment opportunities,
especially for individual disabilities and for our veterans.
Across the country, manufacturers are facing a workforce
shortage. National Association of Manufacturers estimates by
2030 up to 2.1 manufacturing positions will need to be filled.
It is a readiness problem. It is an economic opportunity
problem. For our veterans in particular, a missed chance to
connect people who are ready to serve and work that truly
matters.
One of the most overlooked part of the sector is cut-and-
sew manufacturing. It is a highly specialized trade, but not
unlike many fields, it does not require a 4-year degree. It
does require training, discipline, precision, and the ability
to show up every day to do the job right.
When a servicemember transitions out of the military, many
of them are not looking for a traditional office job. They want
to work. The work that they want is hands-on. They are used to
being part of a team. They are motivated by mission and not a
paycheck. They are exactly the conditions. These are the
conditions, especially on a manufacturing floor: a shared
mission, clear standards, and a culture where everyone's role
matters.
Unfortunately, significant barriers keep many veterans from
considering these paths. First, there is a awareness problem.
When servicemembers go through transition counseling,
manufacturing, especially cut-and-sew, is rarely presented as a
high-value, long-term career. Many veterans simply do not know
these jobs exist. We can change that. I urge Congress to ensure
that career transitions explicitly include a pathway to
manufacturing, including trades like cut-and-sew.
The Department of Labor register apprenticeship programs
are powerful tools. We need to use it and we need to extend it.
Provide additional training funding incentive for veterans in
these role. These will increase the pipeline.
Second, there are constraints in the GI Bill that can be
used. Many veterans need short-term, skill-focused training
programs, not 2 or 4 years in classroom. Right now it can be
difficult to fully utilize the GI Bill. We need to condense
training stackable credentials in trades like cut-and-sew
manufacturing, expand eligibility, and flexibility.
Third, the cost of training falls entirely on the employer.
For a not-for-profit manufacturer, like ORC, and many other
small mid-sized businesses, the desire to hire and train
veterans is there. The margins are tight. Every dollar invested
in training has to be carefully weighted. Congress can help by
derisking the investments, targeted training grants, tax cut,
tax credit, dedicated funding for veterans-focused
apprenticeship, and work experience program.
ORC's mission is to employ individuals with disability
while strengthening America's manufacturing base, including
creating opportunity for veterans. Our cut-and-sew lines
produce critical defense textile product. Veterans working on
these products can see a direct line between their work and the
readiness of the next generation of servicemember.
At ORC, we receive--employees receive an onsite training
regardless of their educational background. We do not require a
4-year degree. We require willingness to learn to work as a
team to meet with high-quality standard. We promote from
within.
In closing, I want to emphasize three key points. First,
cut-and-sew manufacturing, skilled trade more broadly, offers
scalable, nontraditional career path for veterans that do not
require a 4-year degree, but do offer dignity, purpose, and
advancement. Second, better awareness of traditional programs,
more flexibility. Third, when we do this, we do not just help
veterans. We strengthen America's manufacturing capability, our
national readiness. We close critical work gaps, support
domestic production of defense textile, and other strategic
goods, and demonstrate that this country still values skilled
trades as a vital part of our economy.
Thank you for your time and for your commitment to
expanding opportunity for those who serve.
[The Prepared Statement Of Ying Vang Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Thank you, Mr. Vang.
Your written testimony will be entered into the record.
For anybody that is wondering, in fact, everyone from the
State of Wisconsin has the same tie. I know, right? It is kind
of cool.
All right. We will now proceed to questioning.
The chair now recognizes Ranking Member Pappas for 5
minutes.
Mr. Pappas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to thank our panelists for their testimony today. I
think it is all important for us to consider as we think about
how we match up the skills and potential of our veterans who
are being separated from service with the opportunities that
are out there and the need in so many critical sectors of our
economy. I appreciate the work that you are all doing and how
you are bringing together education and labor and the private
sector to help solve this problem and to help make sure our
veterans have everything they need to thrive.
Mr. Bostic, if I can start with you. I want to thank you
for what you have put on the table here today and talking a
little bit more about your military hiring program that you
stood up. It sounds like you did it in a way that provided the
best opportunity for veterans to have access to it. I thank you
for the feedback that you have provided in terms of how we can
improve things with respect to veteran employment. You talked
about employer advisory councils to, you know, better reflect
the feedback from the private sector; incentives for smaller
employers to participate, which absolutely is something that
Congress needs to focus on. It should not just be big business
that is able to be able to navigate these programs and create
opportunities for veterans, because we know most of our
employers fall into the small business category.
I just want to see if I could get a little bit more detail
from you on this central portal idea that you had. There are so
many different programs out there with overlapping points of
contact and employment coordinators with responsibilities that
overlap with each other. Can you talk about the value in having
this in one place and whether you think Congress needs to give
better guidance to various departments to consolidate and
delineate responsibilities and ensure that agencies are working
together with the end goal of opening more doors to veterans?
Mr. Bostic. Certainly, and thank you for the question. Yes,
absolutely. A centralized portal, some single point of
communication that streamlines exactly what benefits a veteran
qualifies for or what benefits an employer would qualify for
would be extremely helpful. It kind of mirrors how I run the
program. With our military hiring program we are the single
point of contact for the veterans and the servicemembers that
come to us as well as the dealers.
We do not get too heavily involved within the specific
benefits. I am just the matchmaker between the veterans,
servicemembers, and the dealerships. That process of having
somebody that knows there is one phone call they can make,
there is one email address they can send an email off to, or
one website they can go to and get a single point of
information is extremely helpful.
Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks very much for your feedback.
Mr. Hamm, if I can turn to you, thanks as well for talking
a little bit about the career development focus that your
company has had. I appreciate you relating some of the feedback
from the American Trucking Association and talking about some
of the legislation that we have considered and hopefully will
consider soon to cut red tape and help more veterans secure
employment in the trucking industry. I thank the ATA for
supporting that legislation.
Has the ATA seen any impact on a bill that we already
passed and was signed into law last year, the Veteran
Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act? Do you have any
recommendations on other steps Congress should be taking to pay
close attention to this issue in terms of implementation?
Mr. Hamm. I thank the ranking member for his question. We
have already seen impact across agencies, especially those that
have multiple locations across multiple states. The old
inability to have students access their GI Bill benefits just
because you were in another State location of a corporation or
an entity that had it already approved in another State was
burdensome on the veterans trying to use their benefits. We
have already seen, in just the short year that it has been in
effect, we have already seen progress in students having access
to funding through their GI Bill benefits to get quality
education at these quality training providers.
Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks for that feedback. That is
important.
Mr. LaBarbera, if I can talk to you a little bit about CDL
as well. You mentioned in your written testimony about the bad
actors that are out there. Can you talk a little bit more about
the impact that this has on the lives of student veterans and
what we should be paying attention to make sure that there are
some guardrails and that we are protecting, ultimately,
veterans to be able to get access to the right programming so
that they can get the skills they need to have good-paying
jobs?
Mr. LaBarbera. Yes. Thank you. Anywhere where somebody can
gain a few dollars, I feel there are people out there that will
do that. There are all these programs where they will bring a
veteran in, they will spit them out with a license, and then
you are on your own. That is not what we do as the Teamsters
and the programs that we work with is you come in with us, we
train you, and then you go into a good career that has--
sustaining for your family and medical benefits and to be able
to provide for your family for your whole life.
Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Ciscomani from Arizona.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Grant, welcome.
Thanks for being here, sir.
You know, with Universal Technical Institute's headquarters
and major campus being in Arizona, you connect firsthand with
veterans that are looking for technical and vocational training
programs. We talked a little bit about in the previous panel on
the demand and the interest from veterans being way, way higher
on the 4-year degree versus some of these vocational programs
that, quite frankly, they are in a higher need, I was kidding
around in the last panel, than any of the other maybe
professions out there. More on the technical side, but yet we
see 3-1/2 percent or so of the interest in that.
That is a challenge that I think we need to take as a
society overall to say how do we promote that more, especially
among our veterans that I think are eager to get in there. Most
of the people that go to these programs graduate debt-free and
they start making a good living, definitely more than what I
was making with a bachelor's degree in political science right
after college and with student loan debt as well.
What--so I am trying to get a gauge here. What policy or
administrative barriers impede veterans from enrolling in
technical programs like this? How can Congress help expand
access to high-wage technical careers?
Mr. Grant. Sure. What a great question. It is come up a
couple of different times in the conversations here, so I am
glad it is part of the conversation.
First of all, the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458, starts
to address some of the barriers that currently stand in the way
of people picking these sort of careers. I think the best way
to think about it is from ford of a high level. You are coming
out of the military and you want to access your GI Bill. You
can either go to a 4-year school or you could go to a technical
school. Not every technical school and not every program in
every technical school and not every technical school that has
hybrid or online programs. Which one sounds easier for you to
make a decision?
Mr. Ciscomani. Yes. No, I agree. Can you tell me why that
is?
Mr. Grant. Well, because it is the way the statutes are
written.
Mr. Ciscomani. The statutes are written that only certain
technical programs apply?
Mr. Grant. To certain ways and certain accredited
institutions can go or you could go to every 4-year school.
When you are coming out and you want to take advantage of the
GI Bill because it is well-earned and you are going to be a
great person out there in the world, there is just a lot of
having to think it through that happens when you are thinking
about taking----
Mr. Ciscomani. It almost feels like the system is guiding
our veterans or anyone to go into that 4-year degree route
versus anything else. It almost seems like discouraging to go a
different route.
Mr. Grant. Well, that gets to there is really two issues,
that gets to the second issue, which is there is a very
longstanding cultural bias----
Mr. Ciscomani. Yes.
Mr. Grant [continuing]. to go to 4-year schools. We have
153 career counselors on high school campuses. There are
hundreds of high schools that will not allow our students--our
career counselors on their campuses because they do not want
their kids to go to technical schools. We need to continue to
break that down and get more programs into the high schools,
into the community colleges, and then cleanup some of the
language that makes it easier for servicemembers.
Mr. Ciscomani. I am all for that. I am running out of time.
I cannot really see my time, but I feel that it is coming.
1:45. I am sitting in that one angle that you cannot see either
clock here. It is not that my eyesight is that bad, I promise.
I want to continue this conversation with you. You know, we
had a veteran, actually a plumber that came over to our house
and when he was leaving and we looking at the invoice, I told
my wife we are in the wrong business here. You know, this is a
good-paying job and for our veterans, we love that this is
happening and we need to encourage more people to get in there
as well.
I will switch real quick with the time that I have left on
CDL. Mr. Hamm, if I can ask you this. My dad who, you know,
talk about the stigma and all this. My family, as I think some
of you know this, immigrated from Mexico. When my parents were
like, what do you want your son to be? Some careers were not
what they would have preferred. Now looking back it is like,
you know, it could have been, you know, for many people that
perspective changing.
My dad had a CDL. He was a bus driver most of the time that
we have been in this amazing Nation. The trucking industry
reports a high need for commercial drivers, certified drivers,
and highlights that 12.9 percent of veterans already hold the
CDL. Right? I went one of the training sites and they focus
heavily in recruiting veterans as well. Can you talk a little
bit about that? What can the VA do better here in supporting
and training these programs and the GI Bill with the VR&E
program?
Mr. Hamm. I cannot really speak specifically to the VR&E,
but I can tell you that, you know, interest in our--in the
supply chain, interest in commercial driver's license is not
just a--you know, it is a security issue, it is a national
security issue. This is an area that we have to spend money on,
we have to focus on. I think you know, multiple people on the
panel have talked about CMVOST and the appropriate nature in
which we fund----
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from Illinois.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you from the great State of Illinois.
Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank all of you for being here
with us today. Really appreciate the work that you do to ensure
that our veterans are getting good-paying, living wage jobs so
that they can retire with dignity.
Look, the work that we do in this committee is incredibly
important and, frankly, it is our responsibility to ensure that
we are safeguarding and protecting the full benefits our
veterans earn and deserve. Access to quality education is one
of those promises we have made to veterans and it is our job
every single day to deliver for them.
However, in recent years student veterans have been
targeted by bad actors, folks who are seeking to enrich
themselves by exploiting veterans' GI Bill benefits. I find
that unacceptable. I have been talking about it since I got
here to Congress 3 years ago. Veterans should be able to choose
an educational program that meets their needs while being
confident that their choice is going to result in high-quality
education that ultimately results in good paying jobs. When a
student veteran is defrauded by bad faith actors, it is only
the right to be able to have a recourse to restore their GI
Bill benefits.
That is why almost 3 years ago I introduced the Student
Veteran Benefits Restoration Act of 2025. The bill would ensure
that veterans who have been victims of fraudulent practices by
predatory institutions of higher education receive the
educational benefits that they were entitled to so they could
actually graduate and get the jobs that they deserve. We
actually passed this bill out of the House with bipartisan
support and with a lot of support from the chairman here last
Congress.
I want to make sure that I, for the record, note that I am
urging my colleagues to support the bill as a first step to
protecting our veterans from this fraudulent behavior.
Now, I want to talk about 2017. Congress made a deliberate
decision to exclude nondegree independent study programs from
GI Bill eligibility due to the rampant fraud and exploitation
in nondegree independent study programs.
Mr. Grant, I wanted to ask you a question. What do you
think in your opinion has changed now to justify allowing
nondegree independent study programs to use the GI Bill
benefits when we know that they are still being exposed to the
same risks that we saw back then? What has changed for you?
Mr. Grant. Well, thank you for the opportunity to respond
to that. Number one, I will not pretend to be the voice of an
entire educational industry. I can speak very highly for
Universal Technical Institute and its outcomes.
I also would like to follow up on one of your other
questions around the number of employed veterans that are out
in the market after 6 months because your statistic is
accurate, which gets to the notion of quality of education, but
it is not complete. The reason is, is that because the military
benefits are 36 months, many of our veterans, 3,300 we educated
last year, go on and do another program. Once they graduate
from one program, say it takes a year, they will go on and do
another 6-month or 9-month program. They do not get credit for
going to school for that other program.
Anyway, so we pride ourselves on their outcomes and the
high degree of integrity around the industry alignment. We are
very proud of what we put out in the market in terms of veteran
graduates.
Ms. Ramirez. That is great. Let me ask you, I am really
concerned about bad actors and veterans' education. I think you
are as well and I know from the work that you do. I guess my
question is like what are we doing to ensure that we are
preventing these risks from continuing to happen?
Let me, I have a little bit of time so I just need to get
to the next question.
Mr. Grant. Sure.
Ms. Ramirez. If I can, I will come back to you.
Mr. Grant. Sure.
Ms. Ramirez. Mr. Bostic, your company participated in the
Skill Bridge, which has employment rates above 90 percent.
Meanwhile, we are seeing the consequences of programs like VET
TEC overpromising and undelivering. Mr. Bostic, what should the
VA in Congress be looking for to distinguish high-quality
training providers from those who offer training without real
career opportunities at the end, where they end up having to go
to other programs and other programs?
Mr. Bostic. That is a fantastic question. Thank you. I will
allude to what is been mentioned several times in this
testimony already is to track outcomes, especially in the
skilled trades where we have such a deficit across all
industries from transportation, manufacturing, repair, all of
those. There is really no reason why a training institution or
a company would not be able to put somebody through a training
program and get them employed. For me, when looking at any
program, and especially how I look at our own program and
evaluate its success, is to look at, you know, how many
veterans, how many servicemembers are we actually getting
employed?
Ms. Ramirez. Let me ask one last question in 7 seconds. Do
you believe restoring benefits to veterans who are defrauded
would be beneficial for higher employment rates and veteran
career progression?
Mr. Bostic. I believe so, it would, yes. Thank you.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the
Northern Mariana Islands.
Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It is not too often where I sit in front of folks who have
shared their successful transition from military life to
civilian life and so I want to start with you, Mr. LaBarbera.
Thank you for your service. Congratulations on your retirement.
You stated in your testimony that, you know, that journey
has been successful for you. I just really want to hear more
about it to better understand where the gaps are and how we can
look at the system that we have in terms of policy to formulate
some of these action plans.
Mr. LaBarbera. Sure. For my experience, I came out and I
was fortunate enough to have an opportunity in my reserve
status. I think that the big gap is education for the young
servicemember that comes out. I know, you know, there is TAP in
the services. There is a lot of different things that are out
there, but there is so much information that comes out. From
veterans that I talk to on a regular basis, what I see is they
are just looking for opportunities on things to do and they are
kind of, you know, I will use the analogy of throwing spaghetti
at a wall and seeing what sticks sort of. I think just a little
more education and a little more one-on-one time with them,
maybe during that transition period on what is a viable option
for them.
One thing that I have heard a lot today from everybody here
is, you know, a skilled trade is really--you know, it is not
something that people should be looking down on. It is a great
career path, whether it be with the Teamsters or any other, in
my opinion, organized union trade. That is something that
people should be striving for.
Ms. King-Hinds. Did you actively seek out the opportunities
that you have now or was this something that was connected to
you through some nonprofit that directly deals with the VA?
Mr. LaBarbera. No, I was not through any nonprofit. It was
a simple referral process. Somebody said, would you like to,
you know, come work here and drive a truck? I said, sure. Then
after my second deployment, when I had returned home, I had the
opportunity through referrals to join Local 282 and begin my
excellent story.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. Thank you for that.
My next question is to Mr. Bostic or Mr. Vang. You both
spoke about incentivizing companies and I wanted to kind of
further flesh out what that would look like in terms of policy,
so.
Mr. Vang. I believe that, you know, it is really just
opening up, you know, the door for veterans here, meaning that,
you know, helping. You know, a lot of the costs, we as the
employer take on that burden, especially with the training. For
us at ORC, you know, I do have tuition reimbursement program
for our employees, but the goal here is getting them trained,
getting them in, taking them through the process. It costs a
lot of money from my time, all of the management time, to the
training time, to the employer's time, to the lead person time.
Having incentive out there to help employers, especially when
our budget is tight, would be beneficial to open that door.
Ms. King-Hinds. What would that look like specifically?
Mr. Vang. I mean, average, if you really look at it, you
know, cost of training is between 3-to $5,000 per individual,
an employee. You know, being able to take on that burden with
subsidies coming in would really, really help us expand that
door for all of our veterans.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. I have about a minute left. Mr.
Bostic, can you chime in on some of those suggestions that you
stated during your testimony, specifically the incentive part?
Mr. Bostic. Yes, ma'am. The--I will echo what was said
earlier with the biggest--one of the biggest upfront costs is
training. Remarkably very similar dollar figures on the
equipment technician side.
In addition to wages, the training is one of the largest
upfront costs. We are able to discount, provide for free a lot
of our internal training to servicemembers. I know the
dealerships that have hired our servicemembers, they provide a
lot of training up front as well. Several of our dealers will
even sponsor veterans to go on to an accredited community
college, an actual diesel tech program, and do not require the
servicemembers to use their own GI Bill benefits to do so.
Ms. King-Hinds. All right. Thank you for that. I yield my
time.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State
of Kentucky.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. LaBarbera, I wanted to start with you today. You warned
about predatory CDL programs targeting veterans. What
safeguards should Congress put in place to make sure that GI
Bill funds only--and supports high-quality training providers?
Mr. LaBarbera. I am not sure I have an exact recommendation
of what safeguards could go in place, but I think really
looking at them and if you look at, like I said before,
something that leads into a career and not just a CDL program,
I think, you know, focusing the time and resources on that, I
think will be beneficial.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. Mr. Bostic, John Deere's Skill
Bridge program has already shown how veterans can move straight
into dealership careers where employers are directly involved.
Building on that success, what should VA do to formalize
employer advisory councils and make it easier for small
businesses to take part in Skill Bridge?
Mr. Bostic. I do not have a good answer. It is--it is a--
honestly, it is a complicated issue as far as getting the right
people involved at the right time for the right purposes.
Again, I do not have a ton of interaction with the VA benefits.
As I said earlier, I connect them with dealers. It is just in
my own personal experience at trade shows or career shows or
events similar to this one, when you have employers together
talking about the gaps that they need filled, best practices,
and especially when they have the ear of legislatures in the
same area, those sort of conversations foster a lot of change
and a lot of growth. Anything along those same similar lines
would be beneficial.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. I think, you know, what you all
are saying is what we want as well, right? Veterans do not just
need programs. Veterans need jobs. We got to make sure that
programs, even if they are well-intention programs up here, are
actually leading to veterans getting jobs. We know that
employer-focused pathways work. We know that short-term
education programs need accountability. We know that there
needs to be transparency from the VA, especially how they are
implementing the Dole Act and Rudisill. You know, I want to
make sure that transparency is there, accountability is there,
and that when the rubber meets the road and our veterans who
are motivated, who are skilled, are coming into civilian life,
that we are able to help with that transition from the military
to getting a good job, so they can take care of themselves,
take care of their families, just as they took care of us when
they have the uniform on.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
What has come up repeatedly is the education industrial
complex. That is what that is. It has essentially turned into a
racket. Let us be honest. We got these kids going to school.
They get out with hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of
debt and zero ability to be employed. That is just wrong and it
has got to stop.
You know, I guess I could say I have a complicated
relationship with higher education because, you know, we need
to have these schools. You got to remember someone did go to a
4-year institution and then maybe for a couple extra years and
they got a master's in electrical engineering, but then they
handed the plans to a dude that went to your training program
who did the wiring. There is room for everybody here. We just
got to understand that when we are out of foot soldiers, you
cannot win a war. That is who you guys are representing just to
be super clear.
Mr. Bostic, you made a very profound statement. One of the
best recruiting tools is a highly employed and happy veteran. I
need you to talk to your folks and I appreciate that
tremendously. I want to know your Touch to the Transition
Assistance Program. When is the last time your people have been
on a military base and speaking to folks that are Active Duty
that are on their way out of the service?
Mr. Bostic. I make it a point to be to as many on-base
career fairs as possible. We are a corporate sponsor of several
organizations, like Recruit Military, Hiring Our Heroes, and 50
Strong, and participate in them. Every time that I am on a
military base, I make it a point to go and talk to the
Transition Assistance Office to make sure that they are aware
of our program and our benefits.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got to--me and Chris got to make
sure that you get there more often and that door is open for
you.
Mr. Vang, have you guys ever been over to Fort McCoy or to
Volk Field to talk to the folks that are separating?
Mr. Vang. Yes, actually, I am actually stationed right at
Fort McCoy.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. Vang. I do work closely with the team there. Again, you
know, especially in our manufacturing. It is actually really,
really difficult. It is a skill set.
Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
Mr. Vang. Okay. It is tough.
Mr. Van Orden. If you guys do not know, they make our white
hats, which is kind of cool. The Dixie cup, that is what your
brains call it, I know.
Mr. Grant, what is your Touch to TAP program?
Mr. Grant. We have 26 employees who are former military
that are on 26 bases around the country giving career
counseling seminars on a regular basis.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Let us make that 50.
Mr. Grant. All right.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay? We got a lot of bases.
Mr. Grant. I would also like to say I did not get the memo
on the tie. I am from the great State of Wisconsin.
Mr. Van Orden. Where are you from in Wisconsin?
Mr. Grant. I was born in Milwaukee, raised in Racine,
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) graduate.
Mr. Van Orden. Oh, really? Okay. Well, let us get the memo
out next time.
First Sergeant, what is your Touch to the TAP program?
Mr. LaBarbera. Our Touch is through the Helmets to Hardhats
program, where there are regional managers that visit every
site that is available to a member base anytime they are there.
I think it is roughly 25,000 veterans they touch on a regular
basis----
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. LaBarbera [continuing]. that contact Helmets to
Hardhats seeking a career.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Mr. Hamm.
Mr. Hamm. Thank you for the question. Yes, we are on the
bases every single week. We have got a team of people that
travel the country every single week and are attending the TAP
program briefings and actively trying to recruit folks to come
to our great industry.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got some of my fellows back there
with those funny hats on. We got to make sure that you guys are
connected to our Veterans Service Organizations (VSO), also. It
is critically important. We need the American Legion, we need
the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. (VFW), Disabled Vets.
She is in the back corner hiding from DVA. We got to make sure
that you guys are connected. As Mr. McGarvey said before he
departed, it is about jobs.
We have an issue with the Skill Bridge program, and we are
trying to make sure--I mean, we have paid for this thing, and
we are kind of getting the Heisman once in a while from the
Active-Duty component. We are going to start working with those
cats, because if we are not filling those billets or if they
are going to a certain pay grade, which they are, you know,
that is not Okay. We will be working--I am also on the House
Armed Services Committee. We bring this up because we got to
get those people into these programs that we have because they
are critically important.
With that, I am going to yield back.
I want to thank you all for coming to discuss veterans'
employment. It is critically important, as I just said. It is
clear that this is an invaluable program for our veterans and
something--we need more guarantees for jobs for our veterans
when they get out. I hope to continue working with Chris, my
friend, and the rest of the committee to improve the
administration of these approved apprenticeship programs and
enhance them in private sector and nonprofit sector to continue
to help future generations.
With that, I would like to yield Mr. Pappas for any
comments you may have.
Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the
witnesses all attending today and for your testimony. I know it
takes a lot out of your day to be able to travel here, but we
benefit from having your voice in this conversation.
We need to be able to track skill growth, income, and
career building within the industry long term to truly see if
these employment programs that we have been talking about today
are successful for veterans. I took notice that almost all the
written testimony contained references to TAP. Getting
employment wrong, especially during a transition out of the
military or between duty statuses for our National Guard and
Reserve component servicemembers, put the veteran and their
family at risk for negative outcomes like housing insecurity,
food insecurity, substance abuse, and suicidal ideations. That
is why we need to ensure that veterans are protected from scams
and programs that waste their time. TAP was not the subject of
this hearing, but it is a crucial piece of this discussion. I
hope to see improvements on the program in the upcoming
National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), including a TAP
curriculum for spouses and families.
I was disappointed to read in the American Legion statement
that the Department of Defense recently declined to meet with
them on TAP, and I hope to continue rigorous oversight of that
program with you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much for everyone's contributions and I
yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered.
This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
=======================================================================
A P P E N D I X
=======================================================================
Prepared Statements of Witnesses
----------
Prepared Statement of Kenneth Smith
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished
Members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear
before you today to discuss how we can strengthen the Veteran
workforce. Accompanying me today is Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive
Director, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) Service.
As critical members of the workforce, empowering Veterans
continuously proves to be a catalyst for revitalizing and driving
America forward. Congress has authorized several training and education
programs to accomplish this and ensure Veterans have impactful civilian
careers.
Service Member Support
The Transition Assistance Program (TAP) provides support for
transitioning Service members through an interagency effort led by the
Department of War (DoW), Department of Labor, and the Small Business
Administration, which is supported by VA and other Federal agencies.
Every year, TAP prepares about 200,000 Service members to return to the
civilian world. As part of the general 5-day TAP curriculum, there is a
1-day mandatory VA Benefits and Services course that covers many VA
benefits and services available to Service members, their families, and
caregivers. TAP serves as an important opportunity for introducing
transitioning Service members to their education benefits, but it is
only one touchpoint. As all Members on the Dais know, it takes several
touches over a period and through a variety of media to commit this
critical information to memory. Further, if a Veteran is not intending
to use their education benefits immediately upon separation, they are
less inclined to see the benefit of the information VA is providing
through TAP.
Transition Support
Understanding these challenges, VA launched the VA Solid Start
(VASS) Program in 2019 to make early, consistent, and caring contact
with newly separated Veterans.\1\ VASS requires VA staff to call all
eligible Veterans at three key stages during their first year after
separation from the armed forces. By doing this, VASS aims to increase
the likelihood that recently separated Veterans will get connected to
VA earlier and utilize VA benefits and services. VA also sends
transitioning Service members comprehensive employment information
through VA's early communications initiative which begins 1 year before
separation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ On October 17, 2022, VASS was signed into law (https://
www.Congress.gov/117/plaws/publ205/PLAW-117publ205.pdf), permanently
authorizing VA to expand VASS with DoD coordination.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post Separation Support
Once a Veteran determines they wish to utilize their VA education
benefits to upskill or improve their employability, VA has two pillar
programs--VR&E and the GI Bill. For Veterans who are eligible for these
programs, they can access supportive services with proven outcomes.
VR&E Engagement
VR&E services and assistance are delivered through five tracks of
service. Four of the five tracks focus on employment and employment-
related services with Service members and Veterans. Across all tracks,
Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors help Veterans and Service members
develop a highly individualized plan, monitor their progress, and
provide professional counseling and support. Service members and
Veterans are also supported by Employment Coordinators whose role is to
assist in direct job placement and sustainment.
VR&E leverages programs such as the Non-Paid Work Experience which
enable participants to bridge the experience gap by gaining training
and practical job experience. VR&E also includes use of on-the-job
training (OJT) and registered apprenticeships to expand employment
opportunities for Veterans. Through these initiatives, VR&E supports
Veterans in developing marketable skills and trades via non-college
degree programs with hands-on training experiences that offer quick
entry into the labor market. Occupational programs in this area include
contracting specialists, truck drivers, plumbers, and many more.
Veterans who complete a program of rehabilitation show
significantly better outcomes compared to those who stop participating,
such as higher employment rates (74 percent vs. 40 percent) and greater
income earnings ($90,000 vs. $60,000). Additionally, their reliance on
supplemental programs decreased (35 percent vs. 58 percent).\2\ In
Fiscal Year 2025, VR&E exceeded its previous record with 10,527
employment outcomes out of 19,372 positive outcomes for Veterans
exiting the program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ Fiscal Year 2023 Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E)
Longitudinal Study (https://www.benefits.va.gov/VOCREHAB/docs/FY2023-
longitudinal-study.pdf)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Utilizing Education Benefits
Separate from VR&E, VA's pathway for Veterans to develop skills to
enter the workforce is the GI Bill, which allows for non-4-year
programs including an array of vocational or technical training,
including certificate programs, licensing and certification exams, and
OJT and registered apprenticeship opportunities. During Fiscal Year
2025, 15,290 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries began training at
vocational/technical schools and 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries
began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same time period,
78,382 individuals began training in undergraduate or graduate degree
programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
GI Bill entitlement can also be used to cover the costs of licenses
and certifications required for certain jobs following completion of
these educational programs, even if the individual does not pass the
test. During Fiscal Year 2025, 3,541 Veterans received GI Bill benefits
for test reimbursement.
VA can also pay for new employee training in vocational fields
through approved OJT and registered apprenticeship programs.
Individuals who qualify receive a monthly payment for living expenses
that varies based on the GI Bill program used. However, as demonstrated
by the numbers above, fewer than 20 percent of Veterans this Fiscal
Year have opted to use their GI bill benefit to pursue a non-degree
option. VA recognizes that this is in part an awareness issue, and the
agency will do more to ensure Veterans are informed of all the
potential uses of the GI bill entitlement and explain how an
apprenticeship can be a better option because it would equip
individuals with the skills needed to more quickly secure employment.
The Importance of Partnerships
One area which continues to expand is our internal and external
partnerships. This starts with VA identifying high-demand career
pathways and partnering with organizations that can further the growth
for the American workforce. In the past, VA partnered with the
Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics to compile lists of
high demand occupations for the implementation of the Veterans
Retraining Assistance Program (VRAP) and the Veterans Rapid Retraining
Assistance Program (VRRAP). VA will also continue to work with DOL-VETS
to develop outreach and marketing to employers who may be able to
expand their workforce through Veteran-focused recruitment. VA would
seek to reduce employer apprehension of administrative burden by
providing marketing tools for use in conjunction with their recruiting
efforts and demonstrating current tools to manage benefits, thereby
demonstrating how employers can support Veterans using Post 9/11 GI
Bill apprenticeship and OJT benefits. One example is VA's partnership
with private companies such as the International Business Machines
Corporation (IBM) to scale the IBM SkillsBuild program access to
certifications and training in high-demand industries. This free,
credentialed online program gives veterans access to information
technology (IT) skills and builds pathways to meet current
technological demands in rapidly expanding fields like Data Analytics,
Cybersecurity, Artificial Intelligence, and Cloud Computing. After
successful completion, all participants earn IBM-branded digital
certificates to certify their relevant skills in emerging technologies
and related proficiencies to prepare them for successful careers in
technology. Although participation in the IBM SkillsBuild program for
Fiscal Year 2025 is still underway, we have already seen an increase in
participants from 12,215 to 14,368 learners to date. Individuals can
learn more about this program at https://www.va.gov/education/other-va-
education-benefits/ibm-skillsbuild-program/.
Internally, VA partners with DoD to offer the Warrior Training
Advancement Course (WARTAC), a national-level VBA training program for
active-duty Service members seeking employment as VA claims processors.
VA has successfully trained 2,893 transitioning Veterans through the
WARTAC program since its inception in 2014, and most graduates remain
employed with VA today, many of whom have transitioned into leadership
positions within the organization.
Other key initiatives aimed at helping Veterans who face employment
challenges are the Special Employer Incentives and Veteran Employment
Through Technology Education Courses (VET-TEC) programs, which provide
job training and experience with little or no risk for employers.
Through both of these programs, VA maintains partnerships with
employers such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Department of
Transportation, Social Security Administration, and many more.
Challenges and Opportunities
VA acknowledges the Nation's rapidly evolving labor market demands
a nimble workforce, and Veterans are uniquely equipped to meet many of
our employers' emerging needs. However, to achieve this and ensure
Veterans are informed of all their education and training benefits, VA
must reassess how we communicate.
Additionally, substantive changes enacted by Congress in its
reauthorization of the VET TEC program are leading to considerable
implementation delays, due to the need for multiple system and business
process changes required to manage entitlement and payments. Given the
defined opportunity window for VET TEC 2.0, with the program only being
authorized until September 30, 2027, VA is looking at low-code solution
options and expects to have a viable solution identified in Quarter 1,
Fiscal Year 2026.
Despite the IT delays, VA has made forward progress with other VET
TEC 2.0 requirements. For example, VA has revised the training provider
and student applications, updated training provider and expert
credentials checklists, and drafted training and communications
documents.
Another area of concern is our limited engagement with
transitioning Service members during TAP courses. The 2019 National
Defense Authorization Act authorizes 1 day for VA to cover health care
and benefits during the 1 week of TAP. Education, Personalized Career
Planning and Guidance (PCPG), and VR&E are covered in the curriculum.
But a single day, which amounts to 6 classroom hours after lunch and
breaks, is a very condensed time period for Service members to receive
such a large amount of information. We regularly revise our curriculum
based on Service member feedback to regularly improve the Service
member experience within the allotted time.
Conclusion
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, this concludes my
statement. We would be happy to answer any questions you or other
Members of the Subcommittee may have.
Prepared Statement of Greg Hamm
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Gary LaBarbera
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and members of the
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
``Strengthening the Workforce of Veterans in America.''. The
International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 1.3 million
hardworking people in the United States, Canada, and Puerto Rico, in
nearly every congressional district, including tens of thousands of
veterans, currently serving reservists, and military spouses.
I currently serve as a Business Agent for Teamster Local 282 in New
York City, as well as the Teamsters Trade Advisor to Helmets to
Hardhats, working to create employment opportunities for Veterans
working as Teamsters in the Building and Construction Trades. I retired
from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023, as Company First Sergeant,
Company A, 1st Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, following two
deployments in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and one in support of
Operation Enduring Freedom.
My experience is also one of a successful transition from military
service to civilian employment. Following my first deployment, I
received my Commercial Drivers License and began driving a truck while
serving in reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my
career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy
construction industry in New York City.
The most important message I hope to leave the Subcommittee with is
the value and the promise of a union contract and union career to our
Nation's veterans--and the ability and dedication of the Teamsters
union to secure such a career.
Not only do I come from a union household, but the strong wages,
working conditions, and opportunities provided by union jobs, and union
training programs have provided real careers for hundreds of thousands
of my brothers and sisters leaving the Armed Services.
The Teamsters have long been heavily engaged in these efforts -
both creating and operating our own training programs, working in
conjunction with other labor organizations, and advocating for common-
sense legislative proposals in Congress.
Helmets to Hard Hats
The Teamsters have long been proud participants in Helmets to
Hardhats (H2H), a national program that assists veterans, transitioning
service members, and Guard and Reserve members in finding opportunities
within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the unionized
building trades. Since 2003, H2H has connected nearly 55,000 veterans
to good-paying, stable careers providing solid middle class lives for
the families of the brave young men and women who served our country.
H2H collaborates with the 14 major building trades unions under
North America's Building Trades Unions, nearly 80,000 contractors
nationwide, the Department of Labor Veterans' Employment and Training
Service, Hire Our Heroes, the National Guard Association of the United
States, and the Army Reserve's Public-Private Partnership. These
partnerships ensure veterans aren't just placed in jobs but launched
into meaningful careers that value their discipline and leadership.
While working with Helmets to Hardhats, I have worked with
countless veterans connecting them to locals, training centers, and
employers, affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as
Teamsters in the construction industry. I have also had many
discussions with our locals and training centers who are committed to
aiding our Nation's veterans and seek them out while looking to grow
their workforce.
Commercial Drivers Licensure
Across the country, Teamsters local unions in 20 states have
established training trusts or apprenticeship programs to train and
certify our members and other workers as CDL drivers, as well as
offering training in hazmat, passenger, school bus and doubles/triples
endorsements--all at little or even no cost to students. Our programs
graduate CDL holders who not only have the actual skills needed to be
safe drivers but also obtain a pathway to employment, and we are proud
to have trained many veterans through these programs.
Not only are these programs high-quality, but they serve as an
important bulwark against predatory CDL programs persist across the
country. As the Commercial Vehicle Training Association (CVTA) stated
in a recent letter to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, ``the
continued presence of non-compliant entities on the TPR [training
provider registry] allows these bad actors to offer substandard
training services, resulting in students paying out-of-pocket for
instruction that does not meet Federal standards. These students are
often left unable to pass the CDL skills test, obtain employment, or
operate safely; creating a significant risk to all who share the
road.'' It benefits no one to generate ``graduates'' who can't pass a
skill tests or, if they can, are not able to operate safely.
Regrettably, these programs have been to know to target
transitioning veterans, taking advantage of both their personal
resources and resources available through the G.I bill. As discussed
later, the pervasiveness of these programs necessitates both
congressional interventions broadly, and specifically in support of
high-quality programs like those offered by Teamsters locals.
Transition Assistance Program
The International Brotherhood of Teamsters includes 315 Local
Unions throughout all 50 States, and represent a vast array of
industries, we sometimes refer to as workers ``from A to Z, Airline
Pilots to Zookeepers''. Our nation-wide, multi-industry structure puts
the Teamsters Union in a strong position to assist those who may be
entering the workforce for the first time or re-entering the workforce
after a long absence. Veterans have skills that are in demand and many
military skills can be parlayed into family sustaining careers as
Teamsters where a member will earn top wages, superior health insurance
benefits for his/her family and secure retirement benefits.
Given the deep breadth of our membership and occupations, we
believe that there are future opportunities for the Teamsters Union
would to more closely partner with the Department of Defense Transition
Assistance Program (DoDTAP) to assist returning service members with
career assistance as they transition to civilian life, and commit to
working with any member of the Committee in ensuring that participants
in TAP have the opportunity to pursue the vast array of careers our
members work in.
Congressional Priorities
The Teamsters have been deeply involved in numerous legislative
efforts intended to strengthen veteran employment pipelines and career
opportunities in Teamster represented industries. We believe that
working in conjunction with your Committee, and other committees of
jurisdiction, we can accomplish critical legislative changes to improve
the pipeline and increase the availability of good jobs to veterans.
Aircraft Maintenance
The Teamsters are proud to represent approximately 10,000 aircraft
mechanics, the majority of whom work for United Airlines. While it has
long been the case that much of our commercial pilot workforce is made
of veterans who flew military aircraft, the same is unfortunately not
the case for individuals who performed military aircraft maintenance -
in fact less than 10 percent of military aircraft mechanics are able to
make the transition to civilian commercial service. In part, this gap
existed because of failure of the Departments of Transportation,
Defense, and Veteran's Affairs to work cooperatively to address the
needs of these workers as they transition out.
This includes failures to educate service members on resources
which already exist, such as the Joint Service Aviation Maintenance
Technician Certification Council (JSAMTCC) process, a pathway for
military members to meet the requirements for an FAA Airframe &
Powerplant (A&P) mechanic certificate based on their military training
and experience. It also includes limitations in those programs, such as
requiring separating services members to participate in duplicative
testing or qualification which may be unnecessary.
To close this gap, the Teamsters led efforts during the FAA
Reauthorization bill to create similar pathways that exist for pilots
for mechanics, which ultimately included in the enacted legislation.\1\
We thank particularly thank Committee Chairman Bost for his advocacy in
ensuring the provision was included in the bill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Sec. 426. Military aviation maintenance technicians rule
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The provision requires FAA to create new regulation, including
creating a written competency test for military mechanics to reduce
testing burden and consider developing an Airman Certification Standard
to qualify eligible military maintenance technicians for a civilian
mechanic certificate. The Teamsters are pleased that the FAA has
already tasked the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee in developing
these requirements, as well as identifying other actions that can be
taken to streamline the FAA mechanic certification process for military
applicants. We call on FAA to complete its tasking and these
requirements expeditiously.
Supporting High-Quality CDL Training
While we are proud to run the CDL training programs discussed
previously, our locals are limited in resources, which has constrained
our ability to both operate new programs, and expand existing programs.
To that end, we believe that Congress can play an important role in
expanding access by increasing competitive grant opportunities for
high-quality CDL training. Currently, Congress has funded driver
training though the Commercial Motor Vehicle Operator Safety Training
(CMVOST) grant program.
The program is small in scope--in 2024 it awarded a total of $3.5
million to 27 awardees, and most awards are targeted at advanced safety
training for previously licensed drivers.\2\ As Congress debates
surface transportation reauthorization, we strongly support an
expansion of that program to include significantly higher funding
levels, and a focus on initial licensure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Grants/CMVOST.aspx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
By doing so, Congress and the Department of Transportation can
partner with the Teamsters and other quality operators to provide CDL
training, including to veterans. CMVOST is also a particularly good fit
for these efforts, as existing law requires that the ``Secretary shall
award priority to grant applications for programs to train former
members of the armed force'' \3\, a tasking we are prepared to meet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ 49 U.S. Code Sec. 31103(c)
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Additionally, we have previously supported common-sense legislation
which improves the pathway to careers as a commercial driver. The
Teamsters were proud to endorse the Veteran Improvement Commercial
Driver License Act, which was signed into law last year, and thank many
members of the Committee, including Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden and
Ranking Member Pappas for their sponsorship of the bill. In short, the
legislation allows veterans to make use of G.I. funds at new CDL
training schools, provided it is a new campus of an existing program,
making use of the existing curriculum. This resolved a problem with
G.I. bill restrictions for new facilities and we were pleased to see it
become law.
Similarly, we have previously endorsed the Veterans' Transition to
Trucking Act, led by Ranking Member Pappas and Representative Kiggans,
further cosponsored by Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, which would
allow the VA to streamline the approval of apprenticeship programs in
the trucking industry.
In sum, we believe that trucking offers tremendous career
opportunity for transitioning veterans, and hope to continue to work
closely with this Subcommittee and Congress to assist veterans in
finding careers in the industry.
Rail Benefits
It is also critical that existing statute does not create
unnecessary barriers or deterrents for veterans to pursue particular
careers. In the rail industry, workers receive unemployment and
sickness benefits through the Federal Railroad Retirement Board.
However, current Federal law excludes railroad workers who are also
receiving military retirement pay from receiving rail unemployment or
sickness benefits that they have otherwise earned. This exclusion harms
veteran rail workers without logical cause and should be addressed - to
that end we support the enactment of H.R. 10109, the Veteran Benefits
Enhancement Act, led by Representative Stansbury.
Other Legislation
The Teamsters are also committed to working with Congress and this
Subcommittee on legislation to improve pathways to employment for
veterans which are not inherently specific to the transportation
industry. We have previously endorsed both the Servicemember
Apprenticeship Act and the College Opportunities for Servicemembers
Act, led by Reps. Sherrill and Kiggans, which would expand access to
Registered Apprenticeship programs that are available to servicemembers
in the Skillbridge Program, and foster cooperation between colleges and
the Department of Defense with regards to veterans' entrance into
Skillbridge programs, respectively.
We know that numerous members of this Subcommittee and the full
Committee have also introduced various pieces of legislation on this
important subject, and we welcome the opportunity to work closely with
members on advancing proposals which will improve the veteran
employment pipeline moving forward.
Conclusion
The Teamsters have been proud to work for decades at various
initiative to ensure the men and women of the Armed Forces have
opportunities for good careers, with strong wages and benefits which
can support them and their families upon transitioning out of the
service. We fundamentally believe that we, the Nation's strongest labor
union representing workers in nearly every industry, have a unique and
critical role to play in this effort. It is our hope that we can
continue to, and grow, our partnerships with Congress and the Federal
Government in our effort to achieve these shared goals.
Prepared Statement of Jerome Grant
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
Subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to be here today. It's an
honor to speak with you about something at the core of our work and
essential to our Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage
career pathways for America's veterans.
My name is Jerome Grant, and I serve as CEO of Universal Technical
Institute, which includes both UTI and Concorde Career Colleges. Across
our 30+ campuses, we focus entirely on hands-on, career-focused
education in fields that keep this country running: automotive and
diesel technology, aviation, welding, electrical and energy trades, and
on the Concorde side--nursing, dental professions, respiratory therapy,
surgical technology, and other critical healthcare roles.
Last year, we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military-
affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our population--they
are central to our mission. They bring discipline, maturity, problem-
solving, and leadership that elevate every classroom they're in.
At UTI and Concorde, we've built a support system around them:
dedicated admissions and financial-aid counselors trained on VA
benefits, military scholarships, Salute to Service tuition reductions,
career coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies. Our measure of
success is straightforward: four out of five of our graduates are
employed in their field of study within a year. Our success is measured
across the full employment cycle. We support graduates for life with
placement assistance and continuing education, because--much like the
military--they carry our name long after they leave our ranks. And,
with new campuses opening, that impact will continue to grow.
One of the most powerful examples of what works is our partnership
with the Department of Defense through SkillBridge. UTI operates three
on-base programs--at Fort Bliss, Fort Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of
more than 3,500 SkillBridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200
operate on base. Our SkillBridge programs offer free on-base housing
for service members, Guardsmen, and Reservists coming from other
installations. It's also open to dependents because we support the
whole military family, not just the service member. We're honored to be
among them. We hope to see base command embrace these important
transition opportunities for service members.
These programs cost the service member nothing. Over just 12 to 16
weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel technician training
that leads to civilian jobs with starting wages at or above $50,000.
There's no gap between leaving the military and entering the workforce.
It is immediate, with life-changing impact. And we should be doing more
of it.
We also work closely with the USO and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
Hiring Our Heroes program to deliver transition workshops, career
preparation, and direct connections to employers. In every industry we
serve--whether it's the skilled trades or healthcare--the message from
employers is the same: We need more talent. And veterans are an ideal
fit for these ``skilled--collar'' careers that value discipline,
teamwork, and technical ability.
We're proud to be recognized as a Military Friendly School and a
Veteran Friendly Institution, but what truly matters is not the
designation--it's the outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring veterans
leave us with strong credentials and stronger careers.
As for the opportunity to create more visibility into the high
paying jobs in skilled trades, I could not agree more with what Jim
Farley the CEO of Ford said a couple of weeks ago. The skills gap in
the United States is no longer a distant warning--it is a present-day
crisis. When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technician jobs
sitting unfilled, it tells us one thing: our country must dramatically
expand the training pipeline for skilled, technical careers that keep
America moving and veterans are often well suited to these skilled
trades jobs.
At Universal Technical Institute and Concorde Career Colleges, we
are focused every day on solving this problem. Across our nationwide
campuses, UTI trains students in automotive, diesel, EV and hybrid
systems, welding, aviation maintenance, electrical and energy
technologies--the very roles Ford and the entire transportation and
mobility sectors urgently need.
A part of UTI's success is our industry leading partnerships with
manufacturers which allow us to offer both industry and company-
specific training sought by our employers. We have manufacturer
specific advanced training programs with Ford, General Motors, Daimler
Trucks, Communis Engines, and several other incredible manufacturers.
We are eager to expand our partnerships with leading manufacturers
to meet this moment. That includes scaling EV and next-generation
propulsion training, creating more OEM-aligned curriculum, growing
career pathways, opening additional on-base programs, and working
together to recruit more veterans, career-changers, and young adults
into these skilled-collar careers.
America cannot remain competitive without a strong technical
workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate, and partner even more
aggressively to help close the skills gap and ensure employers have the
talent they need to power the next century of American manufacturing.
That's why we strongly support the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458,
led by Congressman Ciscomani and Congressman Davis with the support of
Chairman Van Orden. This bill is simple, bipartisan, and urgently
needed. It modernizes the GI Bill to allow veterans to use their
benefits for accredited hybrid and flexible certificate and diploma
programs--programs that match the realities of today's workforce.
This legislation would expand opportunities in fields where demand
is high, wages are strong, and veterans thrive. It would reduce
underemployment, strengthen our workforce, and allow more veterans to
pursue careers in the skilled trades and healthcare--sectors where
shortages are persistent and nationally significant.
At a moment when many white-collar entry-level markets are
tightening, the skilled trades and healthcare fields are wide open.
Veterans deserve to walk through those open doors. Passing the VETS
Opportunity Act is one of the most important steps Congress can take to
ensure veterans have access to the jobs of today and the careers of
tomorrow.
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, Members of the
Subcommittee--thank you for your leadership and for your commitment to
helping every veteran transition into a meaningful, well-paid civilian
career. At UTI and Concorde, we are privileged to serve those who have
served, and we stand ready to work with you to expand opportunity and
strengthen outcomes for America's veterans.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
Prepared Statement of David Bostic
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Ying Vang
The Opportunity
The manufacturing sector is currently experiencing a
significant workforce shortage. According to the National Association
of Manufacturers, an estimated 2.1 million manufacturing positions may
remain unfilled by 2030.
Cut & sew manufacturing represents a specialized trade
that, while having considerable barriers to entry, offers comparatively
lower obstacles for initiation; this field does not necessitate a 4-
year degree, but instead relies on training, discipline, and
precision--qualities inherent to many veterans.
Veterans transitioning from military service frequently
seek roles characterized by hands-on engagement, teamwork, and mission-
oriented environments, attributes commonly found within manufacturing
settings.
Why Veterans & Manufacturing Align
Transferable Skills: Veterans bring attention to detail,
proficiency with complex equipment, and the ability to follow
procedures under pressure.
Non-Traditional Pathways: Roles such as sewing, machine
operation, quality assurance, and logistics can be acquired through
practical experience, short-term training programs, or apprenticeships.
Career Progression: Opportunities exist to advance from
entry-level sewing positions to advanced technical operator roles,
supervisory capacities, and ultimately plant leadership.
Barriers and Proposed Solutions
Barrier: Lack of awareness of manufacturing (and
especially cut & sew) as a high-value career path.
Solution: Expand and enhance career transition counseling to
include pathways into manufacturing. Utilize and strengthen the
Department of Labor Registered Apprenticeship Programs (RAPs)
designed for veterans, and advocate for expanded funding
incentives to encourage employers to hire veterans into
apprenticeship roles.
Barrier: GI Bill constraints regarding coverage for
short-term, skills-focused training initiatives.
Solution: Expand eligibility and time for technical
certifications and apprenticeships in cut & sew
manufacturing. Streamline the conversion of military
training into civilian licenses, such as transitioning
medics to EMT or paramedic roles, leadership
certifications to senior management, and engineers to
construction project management certifications. Support
the growth and extended eligible length of time with
the Department of Defense's Credentialing Opportunities
Online (COOL) program.
Maximize GI Bill benefits through an extended eligible
period beyond 2 years, stackable credentials, and rapid
upskilling modules. These alternatives offer efficient
pathways to employment without requiring traditional
degrees.
Barrier: Training expenses are predominantly borne by
employers.
Solution: Provide incentives to employers through training
grants, tax credits, and funding targeted explicitly to veteran
apprenticeship and work-experience programs.
Stories That Resonate/Case Study: ORC Industries
Mission: Dedicated to employing individuals with
disabilities while strengthening America's manufacturing base
capabilities, including employment opportunities for veterans.
Cut & Sew Capabilities: Manufactures key defense textile
products such as Army tarps, Navy ``Dixie Cup'' caps, shelters, and
more.
Career Pathways for Veterans: Sewing/machine operators
receive onsite training regardless of educational background.
Supervisory, quality assurance, and other indirect roles are promoted
internally, leveraging both training and leadership abilities.
Advancement into management or technical fields is further supported
through ORC's educational benefits.
Educational Support: ORC provides $3,000 annually in
tuition reimbursement for technical or associate degrees and $5,000 per
year for bachelor's degrees.
Takeaway/Conclusion
Cut & sew manufacturing presents a scalable, non-
traditional career pathway for veterans. Enhanced recognition of
skilled trades in the US, support for employer-driven training, and
expanded funding for short-term credentials will empower veterans to
obtain stable, well-compensated employment without the prerequisite of
a 4-year degree, while simultaneously helping to address the Nation's
critical manufacturing workforce deficit.
Statements for the Record
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Prepared Statement of International Union of Elevator Constructors
(IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP),
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
Subcommittee: Thank you for the opportunity to share the union skilled
trades perspective on veteran apprenticeship programs and Post-9/11 GI
Bill utilization. I am Jason Gray, a proud veteran and the National
Chairman of the IUEC Veterans Assistance Program. We submit this
statement on behalf of the International Union of Elevator Constructors
(IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP),
in solidarity with other union apprenticeship programs.
We are concerned that although the Post-9/11 GI Bill was expanded
in 2011 to cover apprenticeships and on-the-job training, these
pathways remain underutilized by veterans. Based on DOL VETS data, in
2024, only 0.31 percent of Post-9/11 GI Bill participants enrolled in
OJT/APP (On-The-Job/Apprenticeship) programs. These numbers have
dropped substantially over the last 6 years: in 2024, 140,000 fewer
apprentices utilized the GI Bill for OJT/APP programs than in 2019.
This indicates that tens of thousands of veterans are missing out on
valuable ``earn-and-learn'' career opportunities in the skilled trades.
We submit this statement of record to explain the issues and
provide recommendations to improve veteran participation in skilled
trades apprenticeships.
GI Bill Apprenticeships: A Largely Overlooked Opportunity
When Congress opened the Post-9/11 GI Bill to apprenticeships in
2011, it created a powerful tool for veterans. In a registered
apprenticeship, veterans work as paid apprentices in industries such as
construction, utilities, and manufacturing while simultaneously
receiving GI Bill benefits, including tax-free money for books and
supplies, and a monthly housing allowance during training. Unlike a
traditional college path, the union apprenticeship model charges no
tuition - training costs are covered by joint labor-management
programs, meaning veterans incur no student debt. An apprentice earns
wages from day one (with regular raises) and often receives
collectively bargained benefits, such as healthcare and pensions. The
GI Bill benefits essentially serve as a boost to help cover rent,
utilities, childcare, and other living expenses for the veteran as they
advance through a 3-5-year apprenticeship that leads to journeyman
status, including journeyman wages and benefits.
In the elevator industry, the IUEC represents about 32,000 elevator
and escalator mechanics and apprentices in the United States and
Canada. The IUEC has collective bargaining agreements with 615
employers in the industry, including large corporations such as Otis,
KONE, Schindler, and TK Elevator. NEIEP is the apprenticeship program
run by a joint board of Trustees with equal representation from the
union and employers. It provides a 5-year, state-of-the-art
apprenticeship program in over 65 locations across the country, where
apprentices ``learn as they earn'' from day one, while incurring no
debt for their education. When apprentices graduate from the program
and become elevator and escalator mechanics, they join a trade that has
consistently ranked as the highest-paying blue-collar job in the United
States. (Forbes.com). And other trades--from plumbers and pipefitters
to electricians, ironworkers, cement masons, bricklayers, painters, and
more--offer tens of thousands of similar opportunities.
Despite these advantages, veteran usage of GI Bill benefits for
apprenticeships remains very low. The overwhelming majority of eligible
veterans still choose to use their education benefits for college or
other schooling. This gap is not due to a lack of ability or interest
among veterans, but rather a lack of awareness and access. Many
transitioning service members are simply not informed about
apprenticeship opportunities during their transition or by VA
educational counselors.
The GAO concluded in 2015 that VA needed to improve outreach and
ease administrative hurdles for the OJT/apprenticeship benefit, and VA
concurred with all the recommendations. Unfortunately, from our vantage
point in the skilled trades, this outreach gap persists today--too few
separating service members ever learn about programs like ours. The
result is a largely overlooked opportunity: veterans who could thrive
in high-demand trade careers are missing the chance to use their hard-
earned GI Bill benefits to pursue them. What's more, these industries
are missing out on attracting qualified, skilled workers to fill a
critical skilled labor shortage in construction.
The following recommendations outline how VA and Congress can
collaborate to achieve these goals, generating positive economic
impacts for veterans, employers, and communities alike.
Recommendation 1: Leverage Partnerships and Portals to Connect Veterans
with Apprenticeship Opportunities
VA should strengthen and expand partnerships with industry-
affiliated programs to improve awareness and access to skilled trades
apprenticeships for transitioning service members and veterans.
One existing resource the VA can immediately leverage is Helmets to
Hardhats (H2H). H2H is a national nonprofit portal that connects
transitioning service members and veterans to registered apprenticeship
programs in the construction and building trades. Backed by 15 major
construction trade unions and contractor associations, H2H serves as a
comprehensive navigator for veterans into these careers. Since 2003,
H2H has helped close to 50,000 military members transition into
civilian construction trades careers. It aggregates over 82,000
contractors and 1,600 training centers across 65 different crafts on a
single platform, essentially offering a one-stop shop for veterans to
explore trade opportunities nationwide. Through H2H, a veteran can
learn about apprenticeships for electricians, plumbers, carpenters,
ironworkers, and more, and be directly referred to local union
apprenticeship training centers. Importantly, H2H also educates
veterans on how to use their GI Bill stipends during apprenticeship to
supplement their entry-level wages - helping them financially sustain
the ``earn while you learn'' period. Given this proven track record, VA
should formally collaborate with Helmets to Hardhats (and similar
programs) to amplify its reach.
For example, VA can integrate H2H into the Transition Assistance
Program (TAP) curriculum and VA websites, so every separating service
member learns about this pipeline to the building and construction
trades. The Department of Labor has already worked to include
apprenticeship information in TAP classes; a coordinated VA endorsement
would further validate this route.
Recommendation 2: Remove Barriers and Provide Incentives for
Apprenticeship Program Participation
Oftentimes, the red tape surrounding approval of OJT/APP programs
through State Approving Agencies (SAAs) stands in the way of veterans
capitalizing on their earned education benefits. Even if a company or
union has a Registered Apprenticeship Program certified by the
Department of Labor (or a State apprenticeship agency), they must
separately apply to their state's SAA for VA approval. This parallel
process can be redundant and time-consuming. Moreover, if the
apprenticeship sponsor operates in multiple states, historically, it
has needed approvals in each State.
For example, NEIEP currently operates over 65 locations across the
country. Although each facility uses the same curriculum and
instructional methods, they must individually apply and reapply to
SAAs, creating inefficiencies and administrative burdens. The 2017
VALOR Act made some progress in reducing these burdens by allowing
multi-state apprenticeship sponsors to work with a single
``headquarters'' SAA for approval and accelerating multi-state program
certification. Despite this advancement, unions, which typically do not
meet the criteria under the VALOR Act, are still at a disadvantage with
regards to the application process. A thorough review and revision of
the VALOR Act could simplify approval processes and broaden access to
union apprenticeships for veterans.
Ideally, VA, DOL, and SAAs should work together on data-sharing
systems so that when a program is registered or a veteran enrolls in a
registered apprenticeship program, the approval for education benefits
is almost automatic. This collaboration would establish a single,
unified approval process instead of two separate tracks. If legislative
changes are necessary, Congress should amend Title 38 to recognize DOL
registration as fulfilling SAA requirements or further revise the VALOR
Act to cover all multi-state scenarios.
Recommendation 3: Enhance Financial Support for Veteran Apprentices -
Especially Housing Allowances
To attract more transitioning service members into skilled trades
apprenticeships, we need to ensure that veterans participating in these
programs receive sufficient financial support, comparable to what they
would get attending traditional college programs. Specifically, the
housing allowance for apprentices under the Post-9/11 GI Bill should be
improved to eliminate disincentives. Currently, a veteran using the GI
Bill in an apprenticeship or on-the-job training program receives a
Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) that begins at the same rate as a full-
time student's allowance but then decreases by 20 percent every 6
months of training. This means that as a veteran advances and
presumably gains more skills (and possibly increases family
obligations), their VA housing support significantly declines. In one
analysis, after 2 years, a veteran apprentice only receives 20 percent
of their original allotment, turning what was once a robust living
allowance into a small sum that barely covers groceries.'' Conversely,
a veteran attending a university continues to receive their full
housing stipend throughout their entire education. The financial
disparity can be striking. For example, in Fiscal Year 2025, both the
University of Connecticut (UConn) and IUEC Local 91 (Connecticut) will
have a Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) of $2,646. Over 4 years, an in-
state UConn student would receive about $95,000 in MHA, along with
$20,366 in tuition coverage per year--totaling roughly $175,000 in
benefits. In comparison, a veteran in the IUEC/NEIEP apprenticeship in
Connecticut would receive just over $57,000 in total MHA, a difference
of approximately $118,000. This stark disparity discourages many
veterans from choosing OJT/APP pathways.
Congress should take action to level the playing field by offering
full housing allowance support throughout a veteran's apprenticeship
training. H.R. 982 - The Warrior to Workforce Act, sponsored by Rep.
Van Orden, is a positive step. We strongly endorse this bill, but it
should be viewed as the start of broader efforts to close the GI Bill
value gap for veterans in OJT/APP programs. Removing the stepped-down
reduction would ensure fair housing aid for OJT learners, as experts
recommend. This change would make apprenticeships far more financially
appealing. Allowing veterans to fully use their GI Bill for living
expenses during apprenticeships will support their families' financial
stability and enable them to focus on learning their trade. It also
clearly shows that trades are valued equally with college education.
There's no reason a veteran who, for example, wants to become an
elevator mechanic or HVAC technician, should have to forfeit thousands
of dollars in benefits compared to peers attending college. By aligning
the housing allowance policy, Congress and VA would eliminate a major
disincentive that currently discourages some veterans from pursuing
apprenticeships.
Key Steps Moving Forward
By supporting organizations like Helmets to Hardhats, veterans are
more likely to find careers in labor organizations. Simplifying the
process for GI Bill approval allows these organizations to enroll
veterans quickly, enabling them to receive their earned education
benefits. Continuing efforts to close the gap in the use of education
benefits for OJT/APP programs and traditional universities will
encourage more veterans to pursue careers in labor and strengthen the
veteran workforce in America. We urge the Committee to review the
benefits structure to ensure fair access for all eligible veterans,
whether they choose a university or an apprenticeship path. In support
of that goal, we respectfully submit these recommendations.
Prepared Statement of 50strong
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Helmets to Hardhats
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of National Association of State Approving Agencies
Introduction
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas and members of the
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, on behalf of the fifty-three-
member State agencies of the National Association of State Approving
Agencies (NASAA) and their over 220 staff members, thank you for the
opportunity to provide comments on strengthening the workforce of
American veterans.
State approving agencies are State approving agencies responsible
for approving standard college degrees, preparatory courses, residency
courses, license and certification exams, non-college degree (NCD),
apprenticeship (APP), and on-the-job training (OJT) programs for the GI
Bill. As such, we review programs to ensure they align with our mission
and provide high-quality instruction and training that prepares
veterans and their beneficiaries for lucrative careers as they make
their transition from the military to civilian life. As pointed out by
Chairman Van Orden, we are concerned that APP and OJT programs now
account for less that 1 percent of the veterans using the GI Bill, a
continual decline over the last decade due to a lack of awareness and
little incentive to utilize this benefit to pursue workforce training.
For example, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) reports that
during Fiscal Year 2025, only 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries
began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same period, 78,382
individuals began receiving the same benefit while enrolled in
undergraduate or graduate degree programs. We believe that the
underutilization of this important benefit is partially due to lack of
veteran awareness. Furthermore, VA admits that this benefit has been
inadequately promoted and more should be done to ensure veterans are
informed of all the potential uses of their GI Bill entitlement. It is
important that the value of an apprenticeship and how it can equip
individuals with the skills needed to quickly enter the workforce be
properly explained.
Veterans that enroll in an APP or OJT can effectively use their
benefit to transition more quickly into the civilian workforce while
for themselves and their families. For this reason, we strongly support
H.R. 982, the Warriors to Workforce Act of 2025, introduced by Chairman
Derrick Van Orden in February of this year. This important legislation
would increase the benefits that veterans receive during their first
year of an apprenticeship by changing the law so that after 6 months of
training, the amount of benefit veterans receive will increase to 90
percent as opposed to the current 80 percent prescribed by law. This
increase will provide a needed incentive for veterans to use this
program, while enhancing the likelihood that they will persist in their
training, enter the workforce, and support their families. The sooner
veterans identify a career path and training program that aligns with
their goals, their chance for successful transition to civilian life
increases significantly.
Over the past several decades, Congress has greatly increased the
financial incentives for veterans to seek a college degree, but little
has been done for veterans who seek practical on-the-job training
rather than a college degree. While in the military, many
servicemembers work in occupations that are more hands-on and can
utilize these transferable skills that are greatly needed in the
civilian workforce. With this increase in their APP/OJT benefit,
veterans could be better incentivized to join the workforce
immediately, thereby securing gainful employment, becoming a tax paying
citizen and contributing to their local communities and families.
NASAA also strongly supports H.R. 1458, the Veterans Education and
Technical Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, which expands access to high-
quality, high-demand skilled trade and technical training programs for
those who served. Introduced by Rep. Juan Ciscomani earlier this year,
this legislation ensures that GI Bill benefits can be used for in-
person and hybrid skilled-trade programs offered at accredited
institutions approved by State Approving Agencies. By requiring
regular, substantive interaction between students and instructors, this
bill protects the integrity of VA education benefits as students are
prepared for employment in high-skill technical fields. As Rep.
Ciscomani noted, this commonsense reform will expand the benefits that
veterans earned to cover the costs of high-skilled training programs
and allow veterans to receive training to address nationwide shortages
in trades like welding, pipe fitting, HVAC, and advanced manufacturing
fields. Similarly to H.R. 982, this bill can help to encourage more
veterans to seek training in high demand occupations and provide
pathways to successful careers in today's workforce. These bills better
align training and education with employer demand while upholding
quality standards and allowing veterans to use their transferable
skills to pursue vocational and technical careers and contribute to the
rebuilding of our Nation's infrastructure.
Finally, NASAA is concerned with some provisions of H.R. 2954, the
Veterans' Transition to Trucking Act of 2025. While we agree with the
noble intention of this legislation to address a shortage of drivers in
our Nation, we have reservations about the fact that this legislation
removes State Approving Agency (SAA) oversight of trucking programs, an
important protection for veterans and their families. Legislation
currently exists that provides for the approval of national
apprenticeship programs without removing SAA protections such as
ensuring only high-quality programs are approved. SAAs have dedicated
staff in each State to provide compliance oversight and training to
approved truck driving schools, whereas the VA may face challenges
conducting thorough inspections at these institutions. NASAA welcomes
the opportunity to work with the sponsors of this legislation to
address these concerns and ensure that veterans can more quickly and
efficiently use their earned education benefits to enter high-quality
training programs--no matter where they live or relocate to, without
the loss of the protections which SAA approval and oversight can
provide for them.
Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives
Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, NASAA has
not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 2025, nor has it
received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.
NASAA has not received payments or contracts from any foreign
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.
Prepared Statement of National Association of Electrical Distributors
(NAED)
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of University of Health and Performance
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished
members of the Subcommittee:
Thank you for the opportunity to submit written testimony for the
record on behalf of the University of Health and Performance (UHP). My
name is Matt Hesse, and I am the CEO of UHP, a vocational school
located in Gentry, Arkansas. Our institution is dedicated exclusively
to empowering former servicemembers as they transition to civilian
life, providing them with the skills, certifications, and community
support needed to thrive in high-demand, non-traditional industries. I
appreciate the Subcommittee's focus on exploring alternative career
pathways for veterans beyond the traditional 4-year degree, and I am
eager to share how UHP's innovative model contributes to strengthening
America's veteran workforce and boosting our economy.
UHP was founded with a singular mission: to serve those who have
served our Nation. We focus exclusively on former servicemembers,
creating a tailored educational environment that honors their unique
experiences and needs. Unlike conventional programs, UHP replicates the
structure and intensity of active military training to ease the
transition out of service. Our programs prepare veterans for missions
in civilian life, emphasizing short-duration, high-intensity coursework
in areas such as personal training, integrative health coaching, and
culinary nutrition. This compressed, immersive approach allows students
to complete their training in just 18 days--or 140 hours--compared to
the months or years required in traditional 4-year degree programs or
even standard semester-based vocational schools. By condensing the
timeline without sacrificing quality, we enable veterans to quickly
enter the workforce, often within weeks of separation from service,
addressing the critical first-year post-separation period when many
utilize their GI Bill benefits.
What sets UHP apart is our veteran-centric model, which not only
delivers practical skills but also fosters fellowship and wellness
through a community of peers. Veterans train alongside other veterans
in a supportive, familiar environment that cultivates the values they
adopted during their time in service--discipline, resilience, and
camaraderie. This shared experience promotes mental and physical
wellness, helping participants rebuild confidence and purpose. Our
dedicated staff, many of whom are veterans themselves, serve as
positive role models, creating a space where students can sustain and
build upon the productive habits honed in the military. The result is
not just skill acquisition, but holistic personal growth, as veterans
find renewed motivation and a sense of belonging that traditional
educational settings often fail to provide.
Our success metrics demonstrate the effectiveness of this approach.
Based on survey data from our graduates:
91 percent are employed following completion of the
program.
35 percent work directly in the health and fitness
fields.
37 percent report an increase in income after graduating,
with 93 percent passing accreditation exams on their first attempt.
98 percent describe the program as ``effective and
valuable.''
78 percent apply UHP's core framework--``Think, Train,
Feel, and Lead''--in their daily lives.
98 percent have referred or would refer a friend to UHP.
These outcomes highlight how UHP equips veterans with marketable
certifications and real-world readiness, leading to meaningful careers
in high-paying industries that align with their strengths.
In conclusion, programs like UHP are vital for expanding non-
traditional educational opportunities. UHP exemplifies how targeted,
accelerated training can empower veterans to build prosperous civilian
careers, strengthen our economy, and enhance their overall well-being
through community and purpose. I urge the Subcommittee to support
policies that promote these alternative pathways, ensuring more
veterans can access the opportunities they deserve.
Thank you for your time and commitment to our Nation's heroes.
Prepared Statement of Wounded Warrior Project
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
Subcommittee - thank you for the opportunity to share Wounded Warrior
Project's (WWP) perspective on opportunities to improve employment
pathways for veterans. We appreciate the Subcommittee's leadership in
examining how military-to-civilian transition, education, and
employment programs can better support veterans pursuing non-
traditional, skills-based professions.
Supporting long-term financial independence has been an enduring
component of WWP's mission to honor and empower wounded warriors.
Beyond the services WWP offers to support veterans' mental and physical
well-being, our Warriors to Work program provides high-touch, career
coaching services to warriors and family support members to prepare
them for employment and enhance their overall financial wellness. In
Fiscal Year 2025, we provided over 62,000 services to help over 1,200
warriors and family members achieve employment. Our national service
officers and partnership network extend our impact even further - all
free of cost to those we serve. Collectively, our engagements with
warriors across the country have shaped our perspective on how the
community is meeting veterans' employment needs, including for those
pursuing high-skilled vocations and apprenticeships.
The modern labor market increasingly rewards skills, credentials,
apprenticeships, and hands-on training. According to the Bureau of
Labor Statistics, nearly 60 percent of new jobs created between 2020
and 2030 will be in occupations that do not require a college
degree.\1\ Many of the fastest-growing, best-paying jobs, such as wind
turbine technicians, solar installers, industrial machinery mechanics,
commercial pilots, and community health workers, are built on
apprenticeships, on-the-job training (OJT), or short-term credentials
rather than 4-year degrees.\2\
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\1\ U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STAT., CAREER OUTLOOK: FAST-GROWING
OCCUPATIONS THAT PAY WELL AND DON'T REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE (June
2022), available at https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/article/
occupations-that-dont-require-a-degree.htm.
\2\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite these trends, many of the Federal systems designed to
prepare veterans transitioning to civilian life remain oriented toward
a ``college-first'' model. Commitments to higher education at the
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) can and should continue; however,
to keep pace with labor-market realities, Congress can help set new
strategies to optimize veterans' chances of finding successful and
fulfilling careers after military service. We believe that meaningful
progress can be made by reversing underutilization trends for OJT and
apprenticeships; creating more consistency in VA's Veteran Readiness &
Employment (VR&E) program; and embracing innovation in connecting
veterans to jobs in emerging fields.
Underutilization of OJT and Apprenticeships
Veterans have several avenues to pursue non-traditional careers,
but current outcomes and observations suggest that existing structures
are funneling fewer individuals toward these opportunities than might
be expected. Across the past five fiscal years (FY2020-FY2024),
participation in GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs has remained
strikingly low, averaging only 1,700-2,300 veterans per year,
representing well under one-half of 1 percent of all GI Bill users in
any year.\3\ In Fiscal Year 2024, those figures broke down to
approximately 776 apprenticeships and 1,008 OJT participants under the
Post-9/11 GI Bill, versus 454,179 veterans and Service members using
the GI Bill in that fiscal year.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS
REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET.
BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2023 154 (2024);
U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT
FISCAL YEAR 2022 154 (2023); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS
ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2021 150 (2022); U.S. DEP'T
OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR
2020 151 (2021).
\4\ U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL
BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These results may be explained by how responsible Federal agencies
coordinate their efforts. The Department of Defense (DoD) oversees the
Transition Assistance Program (TAP), a multi-day event attended by
Service members as a part of their out-processing from the military
that includes several briefings, including Department of Labor (DOL)
workshops, Small Business Administration information on
entrepreneurship, Office of Personnel Management Federal employment
information, and a VA-led seminar on VA benefits.\5\ While these three
programs aim to support transitioning veterans and their families,
these programs lack interoperability and consistent communication,
often leaving veterans and their families alone to piece together
fragmented resources across three separate cabinet-level agencies.
Further, RAND and Government Accountability Office (GAO) have both
noted a commonality among these programs - that they have historically
emphasized college enrollment over helping veterans translate military
skills into civilian jobs or apprenticeships. \6\, \7\ RAND
also found that more than 95 percent of Federal transition program
funding goes to education-related programs, while very few resources
support direct employment or vocational pathways.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ Transition Assistance Program, U.S. Department of Labor https:/
/www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/tap.
\6\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-16-51, VA BENEFITS:
INCREASING OUTREACH AND MEASURING OUTCOMES WOULD IMPROVE POST-9/11 GI
BILL ON-THE-JOB TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS 2 (2015).
\7\ Meredith Kleykamp et al., RAND, FEDERAL PROGRAMS TO ASSIST
MILITARY-TO-CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT TRANSITIONS LIMITED SCRUTINY AND
SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN EDUCATION PROGRAMS 51 (2024), available at
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1363-12.html.
\8\ Id. at 55.
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Fortunately, improvements are underway. TAP has undergone reforms
and now includes a standardized curriculum. DoD provides optional in-
depth workshops to prepare Service members for civilian employment
through advanced job search strategies and networking (Employment
Track) and to guide them in exploring technical careers and obtaining
necessary certifications (Vocational Track). DOL VETS administers three
employment-focused workshops worldwide. The Employment Fundamentals of
Career Transition (EFCT) is a mandatory, 1-day course that provides all
transitioning Service members with foundational employment preparation,
including labor-market awareness, transferable skills identification,
and basic resume concepts. After completing EFCT, Service members may
participate in optional 2-day workshops. The Department of Labor
Employment Workshop (DOLEW) offers in-depth instruction on resume
development, interviewing, and networking. The Career and Credential
Exploration (C2E) track uses structured assessments to guide
participants toward vocational pathways, apprenticeships, and industry-
recognized credentials. All three workshops are delivered by DOL VETS
facilitators through in-person, virtual, and online learning formats.
These modules constitute the employment and skills-development
components of TAP and are intended to support Service members in
meeting DoD's Career Readiness Standards. EFCT is typically delivered
early in the TAP sequence, immediately after initial counseling and
DoD's ``Transition Day.'' DOLEW and C2E are scheduled later based on
the Service member's tier level and Individual Transition Plan.
While these programs provide high level links to information on GI
Bill OJT/apprenticeships, non-degree training, and licensure/
certification reimbursement, they do not go deeply into navigation of
these benefits, nor do they cover programs such as Compensated Work
Therapy (CWT), Individual Placement and Support (IPS), or VetSuccess on
Campus counseling. Anecdotal evidence from WWP's Warriors to Work
program indicates that many warriors are unaware of the available
benefits - which in this context may include VR&E services, GI Bill
OJT/apprenticeships and non-degree training, licensure/certification
reimbursements, VetSuccess on Campus counseling, CWT and supported
employment programs, and TAP-related career services - and do not learn
that these benefits exist until years after separation. This concern
was underscored in a Government Accountability Office (GAO) 2015
report, which found that VA's mandatory TAP benefits briefings heavily
emphasized degree programs while offering limited practical guidance on
apprenticeships or OJT.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\9\ GAO-16-51 at 2.
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VA has since implemented GAO's recommendations by expanding OJT and
apprenticeship content in TAP (a separate offering from DoD's Career
and Credential Exploration track); publishing an employer guide on DoD
and Department of Labor - VETS webpages; allowing electronic submission
of employer monthly certifications confirming the veteran's
participation; and, as of August 2020, modifying its data system so it
can track how many veterans complete their OJT or apprenticeship
experience.\10\ Despite this progress, many veterans continue to have
an incomplete picture of the opportunities available to them due, in
part, to inconsistent counseling and limited real-time information
presented during TAP about non-degree employment routes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\10\ Id. at 22-23.
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To improve outcomes, DoD's TAP transition counselors should ensure
they are guiding veterans to options that match their goals, disability
profiles, family circumstances, and local workforce needs, especially
when a skills-based pathway would be more appropriate than a degree
program.\11\ Even if warriors are aware of these nontraditional
avenues, a 2023 GAO report explained that some institutions (with
nontraditional training such as outdoor recreation certificate
programs) are unable to accept GI Bill funding because they are
concerned about the administrative burden pursuing GI Bill approval may
create.\12\ Thus, multiple factors are operating to move veterans away
from pursuing tracks to high-skilled apprenticeships and vocational
trades. While VA has tools that can help veterans explore and pursue
those options, many service-connected disabled veterans remain unaware
about VR&E and specifically the other program features that the GI Bill
does not offer, including special equipment to help them mitigate or
overcome the effects of their disability, such as mobility aids and
voice recognition software.\13\ Moreover, approval processes are slow,
guidance is inconsistent, and modern credential programs often fall
outside VA GI Bill eligibility rules even when employer demand is
strong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\11\ Id. at 21.
\12\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-23-106149, VETERANS
EMPLOYMENT: GI BILL BENEFITS CAN HELP LEAD TO OUTDOOR RECREATION
CAREERS 9 (2023).
\13\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-21-450, VA COULD BETTER
INFORM VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES ABOUT THEIR EDUCATION BENEFIT OPTIONS
8 (2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion, veterans cannot take advantage of pathways they do
not know exist, are unsure how to access, or are pushed toward programs
that are not the right fit or do not lead to viable careers. To improve
use of apprenticeships, OJT, and other non-degree routes, DoD, DOL, and
VA could modernize their outreach, strengthen TAP counseling, and
ensure veterans receive clear, reliable information long after
separation. Doing so will allow more warriors to pursue employment
options that match their skills, health needs, and family realities.
Inconsistencies with Veteran Readiness & Employment
Among VA's most notable occupational training programs, VR&E
provides job training, employment, resume development, and job-seeking
skills coaching for veterans whose service-connected disabilities make
it hard to prepare for, obtain, or maintain employment. A meaningful
number of WWP warriors - one in five (21.1 percent) - have used, or are
using, the VR&E program according to 2023 Warrior Survey data. VR&E's
recent challenges with high counselor-to-veteran ratios and geographic
wait time disparities are becoming more pronounced, but there are other
issues which deserve attention.
While VR&E has great potential to help veterans, inconsistent VA
VR&E counselor guidance and decision-making can materially shape
veterans' long-term employment outcomes. Highly variable experiences
with VR&E counselors - ranging from those who fully support OJT/
apprenticeships to others who strongly steer toward degree programs -
lead to structural barriers and unequal access to the full range of
employment opportunities veterans are entitled to consider. In 2019,
GAO found inconsistent decision-making among counselors where veterans
with similar disabilities, experiences, and goals may receive entirely
different training plans based solely on individual counselor
discretion.\14\ Labor-market data is not incorporated consistently,
which can result in veterans being guided toward degree programs even
when apprenticeships or OJT would better align with regional workforce
needs as well as the veteran's own strengths.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\14\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-20-28, VA VOCATIONAL
REHABILITATION AND EMPLOYMENT: ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENT COULD ENHANCE
CONSISTENCY AMONG COUNSELORS 7 (2019).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
GAO also found that VR&E lacked a mechanism to assess whether
counselors were applying common planning factors consistently, raising
concerns about unequal treatment of similarly situated veterans who may
be denied benefits in a non-standard and arbitrary manner. VA
subsequently conducted a counselor consistency study in early 2020 and
provided targeted refresher training later that year, leading GAO to
close its recommendation as implemented.\15\ Even so, VR&E still does
not measure or publish outcomes by training track, making it difficult
to evaluate whether degree, OJT, credential, or apprenticeship channels
produce the strongest long-term results. Without transparent outcomes
across training types, veterans cannot make fully informed choices, and
Congress cannot effectively oversee and evaluate the programs it funds.
Even employers who are deeply committed to hiring veterans tell us the
process to participate in VA-supported OJT/apprenticeships is
confusing, administratively burdensome, and unpredictable. Small and
mid-sized employers frequently cite administrative burdens and
consistently lack the human resource capacity to navigate VA paperwork,
limiting the number of veterans who can access these options.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\15\ Id. at 13.
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The impact of the VA VR&E inconsistencies is even more pronounced
for warriors with the highest support needs. WWP's Independence Program
participants, many of whom live with severe physical, cognitive, or
psychological injuries, face unique barriers in traditional classroom
environments. Yet structured employment, supported apprenticeships, and
individualized technical training models have shown strong promise when
paired with coaching, memory supports, workplace accommodations, and
employer education regarding invisible injuries. These models can open
channels to independence for warriors who might otherwise be excluded
from the workforce, yet they remain difficult to access through current
VA programs.
Current VR&E eligibility rules are also limiting the program's
potential for improving the lives of veterans who are seeking to return
to work as their disability picture changes. Under current law,
veterans who left the military prior to January 1, 2013, must apply for
VR&E benefits within 12 years of separation (38 U.S.C. Sec. 3103),
which means every Post-9/11 veteran who got out prior to this date has
now passed that window of eligibility.\16\ For many wounded, ill, and
injured veterans, this window may have closed just as they reached the
point of stability needed to pursue retraining.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\16\ 38 C.F.R. Sec. 21.41.
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Veterans registering for WWP services do so on average 9 years
after discharge, and nearly half of veterans responding to our most
recent Warrior Survey report chronic physical or mental health
conditions that worsen over time. GAO and VA longitudinal data
similarly indicate that veterans with traumatic brain injury, post-
traumatic stress disorder, chronic pain, and other complex conditions
often delay pursuing education or employment services until well beyond
the 10-year mark due to extended treatment cycles and fluctuating
symptoms.\17\ As a result, many veterans become ready for
apprenticeships, OJT, or industry credentials only after their VR&E
eligibility has expired.
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\17\ See, e.g., U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., POST-SEPARATION TRANSITION
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OUTCOME STUDY: 2021 LONGITUDINAL SURVEY REPORT
(2022).
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Eliminating the delimiting eligibility date would ensure veterans
can access training when they are medically and functionally prepared
to benefit from it, rather than losing eligibility because recovery
took longer than the statute anticipates. To bring parity across all
generations of service, we believe that the 12-year delimiting date
should be removed for all veterans. VA already has the authority to
waive the 12-year rule on a case-by-case basis if the veteran is
determined to have a ``serious employment handicap.'' However, the
standards used to make that determination are not clear and, without
specific guidance to follow, a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor
(VRC) is left to make a subjective decision whether to grant the
veteran eligibility to the program. Wider and more predictable
participation should be the goal.
Wounded Warrior Project is grateful for legislative progress
already being made on several of these issues. We are proud to support
Representative Hamadeh's bill, H.R. 1793, the Veterans Readiness and
Employment Transparency Act, which would improve outreach by requiring
informational sessions, and enhancing reporting measures to ensure
better veteran outcomes. Furthermore, we thank this Committee and bill
sponsor Representative Ciscomani for advancing H.R. 3579, the Veterans
Readiness and Employment Program Integrity Act out of the House of
Representatives this year; this bill seeks to impose limits to protect
VR&E counselor workloads and to require the publication of current wait
times sorted by regional office. We are hopeful that both pieces of
legislation are signed into law during this 119th Congress.
Innovative Approaches as Gateways to Employment
Innovative approaches to employment include short-term, industry-
recognized credentials that open doors to high-growth careers without
requiring a traditional degree. Entry-level information technology and
cybersecurity roles increasingly rely on certifications such as the
Computing Technology Industry Association (CompTIA) Information
Technology Fundamentals (ITF+), CompTIA A+, or CompTIA Network+, rather
than two-or 4-year programs. Skilled trades and infrastructure
employers prioritize Occupational Safety and Health Administration
(OSHA)-10, OSHA-30, and National Center for Construction Education and
Research (NCCER) Core credentials to demonstrate safety and job
readiness. Cloud computing pathways, one of the fastest-growing sectors
in the economy, often begin with the Amazon Web Services (AWS) Cloud
Practitioner certification. Process-improvement roles across
healthcare, logistics, and government frequently accept Lean Six Sigma
Yellow Belt, while emergency response and healthcare careers open
through short-term credentials such as Emergency Medical Technician-
Basic (EMT-Basic). These programs can be completed in weeks, not years,
yet lead to stable, well-paid careers, reinforcing that many of today's
strongest labor-market opportunities are built on skills and
credentials rather than traditional degrees.
As we work to ensure VA's education and employment systems reflect
the opportunities available in today's labor market, we must ensure
more veterans are entering high-growth, skills-based occupations; have
shorter periods between separation and stable employment; improve
outcomes for historically underserved populations; and have clear,
reliable data demonstrating that non-degree channels can produce wages
and career progression comparable to or greater than those achieved
through traditional degrees.
One example of how innovative, non-traditional training models can
meet these needs in the field is Wounded Warrior Project's Drone
Certification initiative, which demonstrates how innovative, non-
traditional career avenues can support veterans' whole health while
opening doors to meaningful employment. Through WWP's new Drone
Initiative, warriors receive hands-on, employer-aligned training that
prepares them for FAA Part 107 commercial drone certification, an
accessible credential that does not require prior drone experience or a
traditional college degree. This model directly addresses several of
the most persistent barriers veterans face in the civilian workforce,
including difficulty translating military skills, limited exposure to
emerging technical fields, and uncertainty navigating nontraditional
career ladders. By embedding this program within Warriors to Work, WWP
ensures veterans receive not only skills-based training but also career
counseling, resume writing support, and a bridge to employment
opportunities in sectors such as construction, infrastructure
inspection, public safety, agriculture, and environmental mapping.
Most importantly, the program's impact extends beyond career
readiness to veterans' mental, emotional, and physical well-being.
Drone operations promote focus, reduce stress, encourage outdoor
activity, and stimulate cognitive engagement - benefits comparable to
mindfulness practices and rehabilitative therapy. The WWP Warrior
Survey found that warriors report renewed confidence, restored purpose,
and meaningful social connection through team-based instruction and
peer engagement. The program is also highly adaptable for veterans with
physical injuries or mobility limitations, allowing them to develop
technical expertise, contribute to mission-driven work such as disaster
response or search-and-rescue, and retain a sense of service and
identity. In short, WWP's Drove Initiative is more than a skills
program - it is a holistic model that strengthens wellness, reduces
barriers to employment, and empowers veterans to succeed in rapidly
growing, nontraditional industries.
In conclusion, innovative, skills-based pathways like drone
certification illustrate why VA's education and employment systems must
be flexible enough to meet veterans where they are, aligning training
choices with each veteran's goals, disability profile, family
circumstances, and the workforce needs of their local community. By
modernizing these systems to recognize short-term credentials,
employer-aligned training, and holistic supports, we can ensure more
veterans access meaningful careers that honor their service and sustain
long-term well-being.
Concluding Remarks
Wounded Warrior Project stands ready to support the Economic
Opportunity Subcommittee's efforts and to work alongside VA, DoD, DOL,
employers, and our fellow veteran service organizations (VSO) to ensure
every warrior can pursue the training pathway that best fits their
goals and circumstances. Veterans bring extraordinary potential to
America's workforce, and our systems must help unlock it. Thank you for
the opportunity to submit this statement for the record. We look
forward to working with you to help improve employment outcomes for
veterans.
Prepared Statement of The American Legion
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