[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                      STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE 
                         OF VETERANS IN AMERICA

=======================================================================




                                HEARING

                               before the

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC  
                              OPPORTUNITY

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                       TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-36
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs




                [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]




                    Available via http://govinfo.gov 
                                ______
                                
                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

62-606                    WASHINGTON : 2026                     
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
  American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina      Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
  Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                 DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire, 
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                   Ranking Member
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
  Mariana Islands                    DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
TOM BARRETT, Michigan                TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York 





Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined. 

































                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                       TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................     1
The Honorable Chris Pappas, Ranking Member.......................     3

                               WITNESSES 
                               
                                Panel I

Mr. Kenneth Smith, Executive Director at Education Service, 
  Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................     5

        Accompanied by:

    Ms. Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive Director at Veterans 
        Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits 
        Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

                                Panel II

Mr. Greg Hamm, Vice President of Field and Government Recruiting, 
  Werner Enterprise, On behalf of the American Trucking 
  Associations...................................................    20

Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr., Teamsters Local 282 Business Agent, 
  Helmets to Hardhats Teamsters Trade Advisor, First Sergeant 
  USMC, Ret......................................................    21

Mr. Jerome A. Grant, Chief Executive Officer, Universal Technical 
  Institute Inc..................................................    23

Mr. David Bostic, Service Development Manager, Aftermarket & 
  Customer Support for Region 4, Deere & Company.................    25

Mr. Ying Vang, Human Resources Manager, ORC Industries...........    27

                                APPENDIX 
                                
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Kenneth Smith Prepared Statement.............................    41
Mr. Greg Hamm Prepared Statement.................................    44
Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr. Prepared Statement........................    50
Mr. Jerome A. Grant Prepared Statement...........................    53
Mr. David Bostic Prepared Statement..............................    55
Mr. Ying Vang Prepared Statement.................................    59

                       Statements For The Record

International Union of Elevator Constructors (IUEC) and the 
  National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP) Prepared 
  Statement......................................................    61
50strong Prepared Statement......................................    64
Helmets to Hardhats Prepared Statement...........................    82
National Association of State Approving Agencies Prepared 
  Statement......................................................    84
National Association of Electrical Distributors (NAED) Prepared 
  Statement......................................................    86
University of Health and Performance Prepared Statement..........    88

                          APPENDIX--continued

Wounded Warrior Project Prepared Statement.......................    88
The American Legion Prepared Statement...........................    94

 
                      STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE 
                         OF VETERANS IN AMERICA

                              ----------                              

                       TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025

      Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Van Orden, Ciscomani, King-Hinds, 
Barrett, Pappas, McGarvey, Ramirez, and Kennedy.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Van Orden. Good morning. The subcommittee will come to 
order. The chair may declare a recess at any time in case we 
have to run across the street.
    Before I begin, I want to take a moment of silence to 
recognize Sergeant Andrew Wolfe, who is currently recovering, 
and Specialist Sarah Beckstrom, who was murdered by a terrorist 
that came here from Afghanistan. Her sacrifice and his struggle 
will not be forgotten. Please join me in a moment of silence.
    [Moment of silence.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. I want to thank our witnesses for 
being here today to discuss ways to strengthen America's 
workforce with one of the best populations of Americans. Those 
are veterans. They know where to be, when to be, and what 
uniform to be in, and they are not on drugs.
    The purpose of today's hearing is to examine how the U.S. 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) provides opportunities for 
veterans to explore nontraditional education, whether that be 
through apprenticeship, on-the-job training, or the Transition 
Assistance Program (TAP). I look forward to continuing the 
nonpartisan spirit of the subcommittee along with Ranking 
Member Mr. Pappas, great to see him after Thanksgiving, to 
ensure that the VA is working in lockstep with today's job 
market to meet the needs of today's veterans.
    Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) was 
unable to come here today because the Senate has continued to 
slow walk the confirmation process of President Trump's 
appointees. I encourage them strongly to just get these people 
in place. This is not a political issue. We need our political 
leaders in the executive branch to be able to execute the 
programs that we write for them.
    Last Congress, the Biden administration's U.S. Department 
of Labor-Veterans' Employment and Training Service (DOL-VETS) 
consistently failed veterans. We had multiple hearings about 
that. By the end of the Congress, their employment statistics 
were worse than a regular American job center. This committee 
must hear how DOL-VETS is going to turn it around. I look 
forward to having Mr. Workman testify shortly after he is 
confirmed.
    On this note, we had a rather contentious meeting with Mr. 
Tim Cummings, who is in place now. I would like to apologize to 
him for getting a little senior chiefy on him, which I did. I 
have the utmost confidence in Secretary Chavez-DeRemer and also 
Secretary Collins to work this out for the betterment of the 
veterans. That is very important for all of us. We do 
understand that is a higher purpose.
    This hearing is not only getting these VA programs back on 
track, but also to note the importance of shoring up American 
manufacturing as a national security issue. I also serve on the 
House Armed Services Committee, and I cannot tell you enough 
how badly America needs to reenergize defense manufacturing so 
that we are always ready for today and tomorrow to defend our 
way of life. One of the best ways to do this is to show these 
companies that have jobs available that there are thousands of 
veterans ready to fill them.
    Many veterans use the GI Bill within a year of 
transitioning out of the military, oftentimes as a fallback 
option when they do not know what their next mission is. 
Veterans using VA's On-the-Job Training (OJT) and 
apprenticeship programs are able to supplement their income 
with both a living stipend payment from the VA for the post 9-
11 GI Bill benefits as well as wages from their employer while 
they are enrolled in these VA programs. At the end of their 
training program, they are able to step right into a beneficial 
career. I do not know of many major programs at institutions of 
higher learning that can promise a job at the end of their 
programs. This promise of employment through the apprenticeship 
training is what makes the VA program so special and can help 
combat underemployment and suicide in our veterans population.
    In VA's most recent annual benefits report, the number of 
veterans using their post GI Bill to pursue OJT or 
apprenticeship continues to decline. In 2023, there were only 
1,008 apprenticeships and 776 OJT participants representing 
less than 1 percent of the post GI Bill population. With some 
states having zero individuals participating in this program, 
we are spending around $241 million a year on administrative 
expenses, which include staff salaries and counseling services, 
for such a low success rate, and that is just pathetic. I mean, 
that has just got to stop. The number of veterans in this 
program and our administrative spending are concerning, 
especially given the involvement--or the evolving needs of 
today's workforce in the 21st century.
    In this Congress my subcommittee has championed key 
legislatives regarding VA's apprenticeship programs. My bill, 
H.R. 982, the Warriors Workforce Act, would increase the 
monthly housing allowance that a veteran pursuing an 
apprenticeship or on-the-job training receives during a 6-to 
12-month from 80 to 90 percent. Additionally, Representative 
Barrett led a bill that passed the House, H.R. 3055, the 
Transitioning Retiring and New Service Members to Port Ocean 
Rail and Truck (TRANSPORT) Jobs Act, which would connect 
military veterans with supply chain employment while helping 
veterans secure careers that put their skills and expertise to 
use. My friend from Arizona, Representative Ciscomani, has an 
important bill, H.R. 1458, that would expand GI Bill 
opportunities to get veterans into mechanical fields. Even 
Ranking Member Pappas, Chris, right here, has a bill which I am 
co-sponsoring, H.R. 2954, the Veterans', excuse me, Transition 
to Trucking Act, which will allow VA to access as a State 
approving agent for apprenticeship programs in more than one 
State to receive VA approval. It is an outstanding bill, Chris.
    Clearly this goal of getting veterans at the forefront of 
critical positions in American economy is a nonpartisan issue.
    I would now like to yield to Ranking Member Pappas for his 
opening remarks.

       OPENING STATEMENT OF CHRIS PAPPAS, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks 
for the bipartisan spirit there as you highlighted some 
important initiatives on the legislative front. I am really 
glad to be here for this important hearing.
    Before I begin, I want to just state that I am disappointed 
that DOL-VETS will not be joining this hearing and we will not 
be hearing their testimony today. I am glad to have VA with us.
    There is an important issue that I wanted to address at the 
outset here, and that is the issue of Chapter 35 benefits. I 
think it is important to hear from VA about the fact that 
75,000 survivors and dependents using Chapter 35 benefits have 
seen delays over the last many months. Veteran survivors and 
dependents across the country who rely on these benefits for 
housing, education, or anything else have been left in limbo 
with no acknowledgement of the issue or any indication from VA 
when the problem will be resolved.
    Now, we have got a hearing in a few weeks on this topic, 
but I was just discussing this with the chairman in advance of 
this hearing. I am hopeful to hear more from Mr. Smith today 
that he can communicate an update in terms of what is going on, 
not just for us here in the room, but for the veterans, 
families, and survivors at home that have been waiting for 
their benefits for far too long. I am respectfully requesting 
this because we are at the end of the semester, 4 months in, 
beneficiaries have not been able to receive payments and cannot 
wait another 2 weeks to find out what is happening and what the 
status is. It is just unacceptable that VA has failed to 
communicate when answers are needed today.
    We have been hearing from this in our office. To put a 
human face on this, I have a disabled veteran from Laconia, New 
Hampshire, who reached out to our office because his son's 
benefits were delayed a couple months at that point in time. 
Chapter 35 beneficiaries, they need to budget, they need to 
sign leases, pay for textbooks and food, and they need answers. 
At the hearing in 2 weeks, I expect VA to send a prepared 
witness to directly respond to these challenges and to talk 
about the substantive specific information that can help us 
understand this situation. The witness should be a political 
appointee that will not pass the buck.
    With tens of thousands of Americans lives impacted by VA's 
error, it is absolutely unacceptable that not a single VA 
official has bothered to respond to letters that have been sent 
by Ranking Member Takano, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and myself 
to the Department. It is unacceptable that the Department 
canceled a briefing on this topic on October 1st. I know that 
one will be conducted later, that it was over 2 months from 
when this was originally requested. It is almost unbelievable 
that we found out that the impacted beneficiaries grew from 750 
people to over 75,000 through the press. There was no 
communication from the Department to the committee about this.
    This is not a partisan issue. We all have student veterans 
and survivors in our districts have waited months for any 
information. In that spirit, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can work 
together on this and focus on getting the answers that our 
constituents deserve.
    Last, when we do convene a hearing on this, it is critical 
that we hear directly from student veterans themselves, from 
their families, from survivors to fully understand the impact 
on this failure on their lives.
    Now to the topic at hand today, employment pathways for 
veterans. There is a variety of government programs designed to 
help veterans secure employment after their service, but we 
frequently hear from companies that navigating all the programs 
in the various agencies is confusing and it does not meet the 
needs of employers. It is clear to me that much more progress 
needs to be made to improve VA's, U.S. Department of Defense's 
(DOD), and DOL's systems so that more employers are willing to 
participate. When you compare the results for employment-
focused programs like Skill Bridge with education-focused 
programs like Veterans Technology Education Courses (VET TEC), 
it is clear that involving employers early is key to placing 
veterans in jobs and careers.
    Data shows that programs run directly by employers, trade 
groups, and unions, where veterans get on-the-job training, 
upskilling, and certifications, continue to result in 
successful job placements while companies save on recruiting 
and salary and the government saves on training costs. It is a 
win-win. This dynamic with the government paying a living 
stipend and employers paying for training is a perfect example 
of a public-private partnership that benefits everyone 
involved, most importantly the veteran.
    That being said, we need to continue to ensure that these 
partnership opportunities are not limited to big business. 
Small-and medium-sized companies must have the opportunity to 
participate, to train and hire veterans, which may be where 
trade groups and unions come in. Our small businesses and union 
partners strengthen communities and can provide veterans 
opportunities closer to home.
    Today I would like to hear from our employer panel on their 
interactions with various DOD, VA, and DOL-VETS programs, their 
thoughts on if we should specialize different programs further, 
and what a single point of entry for employers would look like, 
and how we should advertise the benefits of participating in 
these programs to the rest of the business community and who 
should be responsible for that.
    In closing, I just want to note one difference between the 
programs that we are talking about today and the GI Bill. Since 
its inception in 1944, the GI Bill's educational component has 
been about more than just going to school. It is a tool to help 
reintegrate servicemembers back into civil society after their 
service, to enmesh them back into their communities, and to 
build connections after being gone in service of their Nation. 
We must hold those 36 months of eligibility sacred, especially 
now that the benefit does not expire, thanks to the Forever GI 
Bill. We must resist the urge to water it down by using it to 
pay for other benefits.
    If an employment program that we are talking about today 
drains a veteran's GI Bill benefit, we must absolutely ensure 
that, number one, it results in an actual gainful employment 
and that the start of a career is meaningful and not a dead end 
job. number two, that it protects veterans from bad actors who 
take advantage of them. Number three, that it fulfills 
Congress' original intent of the 1944 GI Bill by helping to 
reintegrate servicemembers through community building and 
substantive interaction.
    Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. You are welcome, sir. Thank you, Ranking 
Member Pappas.
    I will just be frank, as long as I am the chairman of the 
subcommittee and Mike Bost is the chair of the whole committee, 
the GI Bill will not be touched, nor will the VA Home Loan 
Guarantee program. It is interesting that you and I, I think, 
are responsible for the two most successful programs the U.S. 
Government has ever created. I am very proud to do that. I 
gotcha.
    I will now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is 
Mr. Kenneth Smith, executive director at Education Services, 
Veterans Benefit Administration at the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. Accompanying Mr. Smith is Ms. Chanel--it is Chantile?
    Ms. Stovall. Correct, sir, Chantile.
    Mr. Van Orden. Chantile Stovall, acting executive director, 
Veterans Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits 
Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs.
    I would ask that the witnesses please stand and raise your 
right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you. You may sit. Let the 
record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the 
affirmative.
    Mr. Smith, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

                   STATEMENT OF KENNETH SMITH

    Mr. Smith. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member 
Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today to discuss how we can strengthen 
the veteran workforce. Joining me today is Chantile Stovall, 
acting executive director of Veterans Readiness and Employment. 
We are honored to speak with you about how VA is supporting 
veterans as they transition from military to civilian life, 
especially through vocational rehabilitation, noncollege degree 
training, and employment-focused programs.
    Transition support begins early. The VA is committed to 
supporting every servicemember transitioning from the military 
to the civilian workforce as seamlessly as possible. Through 
our partnership with the Department of War, VA reaches 
approximately 200,000 servicemembers each year through the 
Transition Assistance Program. TAP helps servicemembers 
understand and access the full range of VA benefits including 
education, employment, and healthcare.
    To further support transition, in 2019, Virginia launched 
the VA Solid Start (VASS) program. Solid Start calls all 
eligible veterans, regardless of their character of discharge, 
at three key stages during the first year after separation from 
active duty. These calls are unscripted and focus on connecting 
veterans to the right resources at the right time. Since its 
launch, VASS has successfully connected with nearly 75 percent 
of eligible veterans, and these veterans are more likely to use 
their other VA services critical to securing meaningful 
employment.
    In addition to programs provided during service and 
transition, VA supports veterans toward their pathways to 
employment and career readiness, including the Veterans 
Readiness and Employment Program benefits focused on education 
and nongovernmental collaboration and support. Veteran 
Readiness and Employment (VR&E) is the cornerstone of our 
employment support through individualized counseling, 
employment planning, and hands-on training for disabled 
veterans seeking to overcome service-connected disabilities and 
return to work. In Fiscal Year 2024 alone, VR&E conducted 
nearly 20,000 one-on-one briefings with transitioning 
servicemembers. The program also supports noncollege pathways, 
like apprenticeships, on-the-job training, and the non-paid 
Work Experience Program, helping veterans gain real-world 
skills in fields like trucking, plumbing, and contracting.
    Personalized career planning and guidance (PCPG) counseling 
is available to discharging veterans and ensures that they make 
the most informed choice for their post military education and 
employment path. PCPG helps veterans weigh options for college, 
apprenticeships, certificate programs, on-the-job training, and 
other high demand sectors to maximize career outcomes and 
economic mobility.
    Noncollege degree training is a growing priority and VA is 
ready to assist. President Trump issued Executive Orders 14278 
and 14269 to optimize and target Federal programs and workforce 
development for high-paying skilled trades and maritime 
industries. In Fiscal Year 2024, over 17,000 post 9-11 GI Bill 
beneficiaries began vocational or technical training and nearly 
1,800 entered on-the-job or apprenticeship programs. Benefits 
may be used for apprenticeships in OJT and high-paying skilled 
trades, including advanced manufacturing, welding automation, 
and industrial technology.
    Additionally, VA reimburses for licensing and certification 
exams such as for commercial driving, home inspection, nursing 
assistance, and artificial intelligence. VA will continue to 
partner with Department of Labor and others to expand marketing 
to assist employers in recruiting veterans and ensure veterans 
are aware of the GI Bill opportunities, including 
apprenticeships and OJT programs.
    In Fiscal Year 2026, the VA looks forward to the 
implementation of the new VET TEC program authorized by the 
Elizabeth Dole Act to connect veterans to high-tech training in 
fields like cybersecurity, data analytics, and cloud computing. 
During the pilot phase, over 16,000 veterans completed training 
and more than 8,000 secured meaningful employment within 6 
months, earning an average starting salary of over $65,000.
    In closing, VA is committed to ensuring that every 
transitioning servicemember and veteran has access to the 
tools, training, and support they need to succeed in the 
civilian workforce, whether through college, vocational 
training, or direct employment pathways.
    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kenneth Smith Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Smith. The written statement 
of Mr. Smith will be entered into the hearing record.
    We are now going to proceed with questioning, and I will 
remind our members that you will each have 5 minutes for your 
questions.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Pappas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Smith, if I could turn to you and just get at the 
challenges that I presented in my opening remarks that veterans 
are facing right now with respect to Chapter 35 of benefits for 
veterans and their survivors. Can you talk and give us an 
update on these Chapter 35 issues?
    Back in August, we received information that this was an 
issue impacting about 750 individuals. Schools found out that 
that number was more like 75,000. Where does that number stand? 
Most importantly, when can these beneficiaries in districts 
like ours receive their overdue payments?
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. We look forward to 
addressing Chapter 35 questions in detail at the upcoming 
hearing, as well as in our staff briefing this Friday. We have 
continued to make progress through the 42 days of the shutdown 
and the 13 business days since then, and we will have a full 
set of statistics for you at that hearing or on Friday.
    Mr. Pappas. I am not asking for complete detail right now, 
but just some assurance that VA is working on this issue and 
making progress. We are talking about thousands and thousands 
of veterans and their family members that have been impacted by 
this. They deserve an answer today.
    We have sent a couple letters on this topic, one dated 
October 3d to the Department, another dated November 13th. It 
has been crickets. We have not heard anything back, and 
veterans deserve an answer. Can you give them a little bit more 
of an assurance how VA is working to address this?
    Mr. Smith. You have my assurance that we have been working 
on it. Our field team of claims processors has been hard at 
work doing this through the shutdown. I apologize for the 
delays in these letters. It is my understanding that they are 
working their way through the VA concurrence process and will 
be released to you as soon as possible.
    Mr. Pappas. Where does that number stand? How many folks 
are waiting right now?
    Mr. Smith. I cannot provide you an answer on that right 
now.
    Mr. Pappas. Are you going to provide us with a briefing in 
advance of the hearing in 2 weeks that will give us a little 
bit more detail so that we can provide the oversight that 
veterans and their family members deserve?
    Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Pappas. Now, can you talk a little bit more about some 
of the other challenges the Department has faced? I am just 
wondering, in terms of the lapse of funding, who has made 
decisions with respect to furloughing employees during the 
shutdown? Is it your understanding that the White House's 
guidance during the lapse in appropriations was that employees 
supporting government-funded programs, including mandatory 
programs, were to be essential in working during the shutdown?
    Mr. Smith. Sir, our VA contingency plan was published on 
the website. I know decisions were made far above my level 
about furlough status, so I would have to take that back for 
the Department to respond to.
    Mr. Pappas. Who made those decisions in terms of the 
programs we are talking about today?
    Mr. Smith. In terms of the overall VA posture, I cannot 
say, sir. I would have to get the Department's opinion on that.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, we are going to need more detail there, 
too.
    Ms. Stovall, if I can turn to you about VR&E. The American 
Legion statement for the record highlighted concerns with 
staffing numbers, and that is an ongoing challenge we have 
discussed in this subcommittee quite frequently. What is the 
current counselor to veteran ratio?
    Ms. Stovall. Currently the ratio is 1-to-200.
    Mr. Pappas. Okay. How many counselor job openings do you 
have across the country? Can you just assess whether counselors 
are keeping up with that workload, knowing that that ratio is 
far above where the target is?
    Ms. Stovall. Yes, we have 1,310 positions allocated for our 
Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor (VRC) VRSS, and we have 
currently 1,010 onboarded.
    To the second part of your question, so we have implemented 
our national case assignment strategy to help with those high 
work--high caseloads at some of the stations that have lower 
capacity to complete some of that work. We are also 
implementing overtime for our VRCs on a voluntary basis. We are 
also implementing help teams to complete orientations to get 
veterans into entitlement decisions--see counselors for 
entitlement decisions more quickly.
    Mr. Pappas. Yes. How have these issues impacted the veteran 
experience? What are their wait times like for VR&E?
    Ms. Stovall. The current overall wait time is 81 days. 
Prior to the shutdown, we were seeing a decline from 54 days 
down to 50 days, and now we are currently at 81 days. Again, we 
are using those help teams to help us make sure that we can get 
veterans seen in entitlement decisions and plans written so 
that they are able to start school in January.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you. I appreciate your attention to 
those matters.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The ranking member yields back.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Barrett from the great State 
of Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the 
panel. Thank you both for being here today. Mr. Chairman, thank 
you for the shout-out on the TRANSPORT Jobs Act. We are hopeful 
that that will help kind of bridge the gap between members 
leaving military service and finding employment in critical 
sectors of the economy where we certainly have a shortage 
taking place.
    You know, this really struck a chord with me recently as we 
saw the tragic case out in California, where an illegal 
Commercial Driver's License (CDL) operator, illegal immigrant 
in the country, performed an illegal maneuver, led to, you 
know, to the fatalities of Americans that were here. To me, I 
am thinking about this, I am like, why are we operating a 
system where it is benefiting people operating illegally when 
we could be employing veterans who have trained and are 
qualified in these ways, but may not have the appropriate 
civilian licensing that is necessary? They have driven trucks, 
they have done supply chain jobs in their military capacity, 
but then they do not have the reciprocity with civilian 
licensing to get that appropriate job and opportunity back 
home.
    One of the original reasons, the very first reason I was 
motivated to run for office a decade ago, I came home from the 
Army and I saw that a whole host of my battle buddies that I 
had served with were really struggling to find opportunities in 
Michigan at the time. We were leading the country. We were the 
second overall State in the Nation for veteran unemployment 
rate. This is back in, you know, the 2000, mid-2000, 2015 
timeframe. Michigan was coming out of this great recession at 
the time, and we were hit predominantly hard in that effect. 
Veterans always seem to suffer the worst brunt of economic 
downturns. Having a robust ability for transitioning veterans 
to come home is really important because I think it really 
provides that stability, that purpose, and that fundamental 
dignity that comes with being someone who is transitioning back 
home and finding that next mission in life.
    The work that we do on this committee is really important 
in that effort to really establish a framework for how we are 
going to welcome people back home and provide them that self-
sufficient dignity that they deserve.
    I had a few questions for you about some of the shifts that 
we have seen within the economy away from maybe some of the 
traditional 4-year degree programs and into other skilled trade 
or other skilled professions and things like that. I am curious 
if you can give us any insight why we have still seen an 
overwhelming preponderance of people going into the traditional 
4-year degree fields and less inclined to go into the trade 
opportunities that may be a better fit for them based on their 
skills that they have acquired in the military.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I wish I had a 
good answer for you, but, honestly, we do not have a survey 
mechanism to ask veterans why they choose the path that they 
choose. That would certainly be, you know, something that we--
--
    Mr. Barrett. Yes. Do you think it has anything to do with 
the reimbursement rates and what they can qualify for under a 
4-year program versus a trade opportunity, the apprenticeship 
programs, and some of the just I guess, reimbursement and other 
value ability of some of these programs that are available to 
them?
    Mr. Smith. It could be. There are a number of instances 
where if you look at a 4-year--you know, what we pay for a 4-
year college degree----
    Mr. Barrett. Yes.
    Mr. Smith [continuing]. the total package value would be 
much higher than for a noncollege degree or an apprenticeship 
program.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. Then I know I actually was in Michigan a 
few weeks ago in my district and met with a man who runs this 
group, Workshops for Warriors. I think he has actually 
testified in front of this subcommittee last Congress. He told 
me that there is a cap. He runs a trade program, a skilled 
trade apprenticeship-type program that gives certification to 
veterans, things like that. I think he told me there is a cap 
for an institution of how many of their students can receive GI 
Bill and other veteran benefits. Is that true, that there is a 
limitation there for institutions?
    Mr. Smith. There is a statutory requirement for 85 percent. 
It is an 85-15 rule, up to 85 percent supportable through 
government programs.
    Mr. Barrett. Is there a waiver available for that or would 
that need to be provided in law?
    Mr. Smith. Yes. I am sorry, I said that backward, 85 
percent nonfunded, 15 percent funded. We can give a waiver to 
allow someone to exceed 35 percent as well, so that that waiver 
opportunity is available.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Appreciate it.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back with 10 seconds 
to go.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy from the great State 
of New York.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Thank you all for being here, your 
testimony.
    The GI Bill is a sacred promise that helps veterans pursue 
education, transition into civilian life, and provide for their 
families, including the survivors and children of those who 
have sacrificed everything. Our responsibility on this 
committee is to ensure that that promise remains strong.
    A recent negotiated rule from the Department of Education 
on loan limits for certain advanced graduate degrees has raised 
serious concerns, especially for veterans pursuing fields like 
nursing, education, physical and occupational therapy, social 
work, and many other advanced degrees in healthcare, 
particularly, but not exclusively. These are students and 
veterans who rely on both GI benefits and Federal loans to 
cover the full cost of their programs.
    We need answers about delays as well on Chapter 35 benefits 
for survivors and dependents. The VA has not responded to 
congressional inquiries and recent staffing cuts affecting 
payment processing is certainly troubling. These issues require 
immediate attention. The delay is beyond concerning. It is 
infuriating, quite frankly.
    Mr. Smith, countless Americans, including future nurses, 
therapists, and other essential healthcare providers, are 
worried they may no longer be able to complete their graduate 
professional degree programs under the Department of 
Education's rule that restricts access to Federal loans for 
certain healthcare professions. Veterans relying on GI Bill 
benefits deserve immediate clarity. Is it your understanding 
that GI Bill coverage for professional degree programs like 
nursing, physical and occupational therapy, and others will 
remain entirely separate from and completely unaffected by the 
Department of Education's draft rule?
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I am unaware of 
the details of the Department of Education's draft rule, but we 
do pay benefits up to the annual max amount set by Congress for 
private schools. For public schools, there is no limit. As 
well, the Yellow Ribbon program allows veterans to--and allows 
schools to match 50 percent to exceed that the max cap that is 
set each year.
    Mr. Kennedy. The rule that was passed in the Big Ugly Bill, 
it cuts the ability for a student in half to achieve their 
Federal loan need. My question is very simple. Will that impact 
our veterans who also rely on the GI Bill?
    Mr. Smith. We will continue to administer GI Bill payments 
just as we always have. I cannot imagine a deference to the 
Department of Education on that.
    Mr. Kennedy. Okay. You do not know the answer?
    Mr. Smith. I do not know.
    Mr. Kennedy. Okay. Well, unfortunately, that does not 
answer my question. Obviously, veterans, including those 
pursuing these advanced degrees in healthcare, need clear 
guidance and assurances. Many are still going to require 
Federal loans even after using their GI Bill benefits. If those 
loans are restricted under this rule, it is going to impede 
their ability to afford their education. Hence, they are not 
going to go into these healthcare roles where the need for 
nursing by 2033, we are told from the Bureau of Labor 
Statistics, we need to be hiring 200,000 nurses a year to 
achieve where we need to be. We are already behind the eight 
ball and we know our veterans make great nurses and healthcare 
practitioners across the board.
    I am curious how the VA is assessing the impact on these VA 
benefits. You know, how are our returning veterans that are 
trying to go into these fields, how are they going to be 
impacted?
    Mr. Smith. The statute allows us to pay 36 months of 
benefits in the post--under the post 9-11 GI Bill program. We 
will continue to deliver benefits to include both tuition and 
fees, books and supplies, as well as the monthly housing 
allowance to all veterans who are in the program.
    Mr. Kennedy. I think this is essential that the VA consider 
moving forward is how to prevent veterans who have served our 
Nation from being denied access or being pushed out of the 
field that they would like to go into, especially with such a 
great need for healthcare practitioners in this country.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the 
beautiful Northern Mariana Islands.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for the opportunity to have a conversation this 
morning.
    You know, jobs, right, we are here because we want to talk 
about how we get these vets employed. One of the things that I 
always hear back home that makes me laugh, but makes me kind of 
sad, is when I see certain vets, they are like, thank you for 
your service, but where is the service for my service? Right? I 
think there are gaps in terms of some of these programs that 
they are entitled to, that is not translating into them after 
leaving service to get into a career where some of these 
benefits that are currently provided for is not leading to that 
path.
    I also sit in the Small Business Committee. One of the 
conversations that we had last week with some of the panelists 
is, you know, just the shortage of workers in certain 
industries, like manufacturing. Right? One of the panelists 
said something that really struck me, which was, you know, it 
is not--it should not be education for all, but careers for 
all. What we are seeing as a trend across the country is that 
there are all these jobs that are just very hard to fill 
because we do not have the skilled labor.
    I am listening to the conversation that we are having about 
the GI Bill and, you know, Rep. Barrett's question with regards 
to the amount of benefits that are given for 4-year degree 
programs versus these technical trade schools types of programs 
that are available. Obviously, folks are going to be 
incentivized to pursue the 4-year route, right, if you are 
going to get more money.
    How do we look at that gap and create an opportunity where 
trade school education has the same value as a 4-year degree 
within the system? It is an open-ended question to both of you.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. I think we are 
certainly willing to help Congress and we can meet with you as 
well as with employers and other stakeholders to have that 
conversation about the policy issues and how to resolve those 
through new statute.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Did you want to chime in, Ms. Stovall?
    Ms. Stovall. I would say in my short 4 months that I have 
been in this position, it has been rather exploratory. I do 
know that we have some areas where we can focus more on 
employment and that is one of the areas that I am looking to 
improve. Currently, we do have 96 percent of our participants 
that are following our employment through long-term services 
track and only about 2.5 percent that are in our rapid access 
track, which is the track that we use for veterans that have 
skills and may just need resume development and job development 
services to help them.
    I am looking into that to see what is driving that high 
usage rate of our employment through long-term services track 
to see how we can improve and leverage participation of our 
other tracks that may be more appropriate. We do know that 
veterans come out of the military with multiple skill sets and 
so we need to figure out what we need to do to make sure that 
we are utilizing them and we are looking at how we can return 
them to the employment market.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Do you see some sort of perhaps an 
accrediting system as something that would be beneficial? That 
when, you know, folks are in the military who already developed 
a certain skill, right, when they come out, some sort of an 
accrediting body can now take whatever that skill level is so 
that they are not now having to replicate the same training 
that they have already had and that they have already been 
doing, but could actually have physical paperwork to say I am 
qualified, I am certified, I have the credentials.
    Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. I do believe that 
it is, for VR&E, I think it is important for us to help them 
identify how they are able to sell themselves and when they are 
talking to employers.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from the great State 
of Illinois.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Ranking 
Member, for having us in this hearing today. I want to thank 
both of our witnesses who are joining us today.
    It has been a couple months since this subcommittee met and 
a lot has happened in those 5 months. I want to go ahead and 
start, since I am not sure when we will have another committee 
hearing, to talk a little bit about the effects of the last 5 
months. Really, I want to talk about the impact that the 
government shutdown had on veterans.
    Mr. Smith, I want to go ahead and start with you. Mr. 
Smith, for the record, did the government shutdown negatively 
affect veterans? Yes or no?
    Mr. Smith. Yes.
    Ms.Ramirez. Thank you. Yes. Just for the record, I 
appreciate you answering honestly here. 1.2 million veterans 
were at risk of losing Supplemental Nutrition Assistance 
Program (SNAP) benefits, as you know. More than 75,000 veterans 
and their family members had their tuition and housing payments 
delayed after the software problem stopped the automated 
delivery of their benefits. We also know that 56 VA Regional 
Benefit Offices were closed to the public, and more than 16,000 
servicemembers preparing to leave the military were unable to 
receive the VA transition briefings.
    Mr. Smith, recognizing that you saw the impact, did the 
government furlough any veteran employees at the VA? Yes or no?
    Mr. Smith. Did we furlough----
    Ms.Ramirez. Did you furlough any veteran employees at the 
Veteran Affairs Department?
    Mr. Smith. I am sure we did.
    Ms. Ramirez. Yes, you did. According to the VA press 
release, 37,000 VA employees were furloughed, and estimates 
that are about 120,000 veterans that work for the VA also were 
impacted. It is likely that many, many veterans were 
furloughed.
    Mr. Smith, did the government shutdown have any negative 
impact on veterans trying to access educational benefits like 
the GI Bill hotline or the VR&E counseling case management? Yes 
or no?
    Mr. Smith. The education call center was closed during the 
shutdown.
    Ms. Ramirez. It was impacted. Okay.
    Just for the record, I just want to make sure we note this 
since we have not met for the last 5 months, and this shutdown 
by the majority really had an impact. I want to make sure I put 
this on the record. More than 900,000 veterans were unable to 
get assistance from the GI Bill hotline. More than 100,000 
enrolled veterans did not get their Veteran Readiness and 
Employment program, counseling, or case management services. By 
October 30, there was a backlog of new applicants for the 
program of more than 61,988 applications. I want to make sure I 
put that on the record.
    I also want to state that I was extremely frustrated that 
my staff were working around the clock every single day and 
they were unable to connect with the congressional liaison when 
they were attempting to advocate on behalf of the veterans that 
I represent. The Secretary directed leaders and staff within 
the VA to use congressionally appropriated funds to send these 
politically charged messages to veterans and congressional 
staff about the shutdown, which I think is a clear violation of 
the Hatch Act, instead of trying to work with us to try to help 
them. I want to make sure that I note this because the shutdown 
may have ended, but the impact is still there.
    With that, the last minute and a half I have, I want to 
talk a little bit more about workforce opportunities here. 
Access to a quality education is one of the promises we made to 
veterans and we must deliver. The VET TEC is now drowning on GI 
Bill benefits, yet VA's own data shows that the VET TEC's 
employment rate is only at 49 percent within the 180 days of 
program completion.
    Mr. Smith, when VA's own data shows that the VET TEC fails 
to leave to employment for more than half of participating 
veterans, is not restoring their GI Bill benefits essential so 
veterans are not stuck paying the price when their training 
fails to yield gainful employment?
    Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. Based on the statute 
and design of the VET TEC program authorized by the Elizabeth 
Dole Act, if there is no remaining entitlement, the veteran is 
allowed to train without cost, so they are allowed to enroll 
and pursue the VET TEC program. Then they are charged 
entitlement if they do have remaining entitlement.
    Ms.Ramirez. Yet half of the participating veterans are not 
getting their restorated GI Bill benefits. I just want to make 
sure I note that because the purpose is to be able to help them 
get gainful employment. That is why, you know, I think some of 
us have been working the last few years.
    I have 10 seconds left, Chairman. I worked on the Student 
Veteran Benefit Restoration Act and I am going to be 
reintroducing it. It will be really important for us to work 
bipartisan the way we did before to make sure this bill finally 
passes.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields back.
    The chair now recognizes my great friend, Mr. Juan 
Ciscomani from the State of Arizona.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chairman. Thank 
you all for the witnesses here for being here as well to 
testify about this important topic.
    You know, as our country continues to face shortages in key 
industries like electrical work, trucking, manufacturing, and 
energy, this committee must ensure that veterans are made aware 
of every pathway to a meaningful career. In a recent survey, 
more than 70 percent of Veteran Readiness Employment 
participants of the VR&E enter into an undergraduate program 
where about 3-1/2 percent entered into a vocational or 
technical program and participation rates on for on-the-job 
training remain especially low. Given the robust wages and 
impressive employment outcomes associated with these programs, 
it is clear that significant improvements in outreach are 
needed.
    My bill, H.R. 1458, the Veteran Education and Technical 
Skills Opportunity Act, the Veterans Education and Technical 
Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, expands access to vocational and 
technical training by extending educational benefits in the 
post 9-11 GI Bill to include both in-person and hybrid versions 
of skilled trade training programs in order to address skilled 
trade labor shortages. Today's hearing is an opportunity to 
learn how the VA is refocusing on all educational pathways, 
degrees and non-degrees, and the best ways we can assist 
veterans in obtaining high-paying jobs and strengthen the 
American workforce and the shortages associated with that.
    I have got a--I want to start off with a question here 
regarding the Dole Act. Now, Mr. Smith, this is for you. The 
Dole Act was signed into law last January and it included 
improvements to the VET TEC program that is very key to the 
issues that we are talking about here. Now, the VA now it says 
that it is going to implement the VET TEC program into the 
first quarter of 2026. That is well over a year after this was 
signed into law. This is, quite frankly, unacceptable. I am not 
sure why it is taking so long, especially given that Congress 
paid for the provisions to this almost immediately.
    I am also on the Appropriations Committee, so I know that 
well. We had the legislation and we had the appropriated funds 
for that as well. Why has it taken this long and why cannot we 
implement it today?
    Mr. Smith. Sir, thank you for the question. We have been 
working to build a payment or a claims processing and payment 
system to support the VET TEC program. Because of the changes 
to the underlying program, the requirements changed and we 
needed to make changes to our claims processing tool.
    Second, our new payment processing system needs to be 
updated so that it can also process and pay those. We are 
looking to do that in third quarter of this year, be done in 
third quarter of this year, so that we can field that program.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Third quarter of this year?
    Mr. Smith. Yes, 2026.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, next year then you are talking about.
    Mr. Smith. We are in Fiscal Year 2026. I am sorry.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, Okay. On the fiscal year, gotcha.
    Well, there has got to be a way to be able to speed this 
up. I mean, the funds are there. The legislation was passed. 
This has a direct impact on where we want to go here with 
workforce, especially when we talk about the traits and so on. 
I am hoping to maybe get a little more concrete timeline or 
what is in the way of this. I do want to add some friendly 
pressure here because this is--time is of the essence here.
    Again, it has been--it will be over a year by the time 
that, you know, your stated goal of quarter 1 gets implemented. 
Hopefully, we can get on that pretty quickly. I would 
appreciate an update on that when you have a more specific 
timeline.
    Mr. Smith. Will do.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Now, let me move on to another 
question. I cannot see my time here, Mr. Chairman. One minute. 
Okay. Well, I do not have a lot of time, but so I will move to 
Ms. Stovall, if we can do that.
    The VR&E meta data report highlights that, like I said, 
only 3-1/2 percent of veterans in the program pursue vocational 
or technical training and just about 0.4 percent participate in 
apprenticeships. What do you believe is driving such low 
participation in the career-building pathway, specifically on 
this one? What strategies can be implementing to increase 
awareness and enrollment in those programs?
    Ms. Stovall. That is one of the areas that I am looking 
into, sir, to determine, you know, what is driving the high 
participation rates in training programs. What I have tasked my 
staff with is looking at what are our top 4-year degree 
programs and how can we match those with apprenticeships and 
OJTs that currently exist that may be a better route to help 
our veterans enter employment more quickly?
    Mr. Ciscomani. I agree. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I would 
say that, you know, I think we, at least in Arizona or in 
Tucson, we may need not as many more attorneys, but we need 
more on the trades. We are missing that for sure. If we can----
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Ciscomani. No offense to any of the attorneys in the 
room here, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Van Orden. Not me.
    Mr. Ciscomani. No, I am not looking at you. I am looking 
past you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Okay.
    Mr. Van Orden. We are good. Mr. Kennedy? Maybe. I do not 
know. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State 
of Kentucky.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    This hearing is pretty simple. We want to make sure that 
our veterans, our men and women who put on the uniform, can 
build a good life and a good career after they transition away 
from the military. We know that there are some successful 
programs. The GI Bill has done a great job, but not all 
veterans need a 4-year degree. In fact, there are a lot of 
programs out there that can help, but the fact is veterans are 
not using these nondegree options.
    We got to build some pathways. This is like, I hate using 
government speak. Let us not talk about pathways. Veterans need 
jobs and we got to make sure that they have what they need to 
get jobs. We have some things out there. Skill Bridge, these 
are registered apprenticeships, union training programs, 
industry partnerships. We know how this can work. Our 
collective responsibility, both on this committee and at the VA 
is to make sure that our veterans are not burning through their 
benefits only to be left with nothing really to show for it at 
the end.
    We need accountability. We got to have some clarity. We got 
to have some employer partnerships that deliver results for our 
veterans. We got to make sure that our veterans who have 
already shown the initiative to put on that uniform, to go into 
the service, can take the skills they have there and use them 
in the civilian world to get a good job and have a good life 
for their families.
    I look at this statistic. I am going to follow up on what 
Mr. Ciscomani said a minute ago. Fewer than 20 percent of their 
veterans right now use the GI Bill for nondegree options. Only 
20 percent. Your testimony today has stated this may be due to 
a lack of wider awareness. Not using government speak, let us 
talk about this in a real way. What percentage of our veterans 
do you think should be using their GI Bill for nondegree 
options? What is the VA doing to make sure they know about 
these options and where they exist?
    Mr. Smith. I will ask Ms. Stovall to respond in a second. 
First let me say I think there is an awareness problem. Both VA 
needs to be communicating with employers, partnering with 
employers to overcome that apprehension behind, you know, 
entering into a formal arrangement where they will be 
submitting enrollments and other documentation to VA.
    Second, while we address this in PCPG, all of the pathways 
for education benefits, I think that we need to do a better job 
of other marketing around the idea of what opportunities are 
available for all of these different avenues.
    You know, we are limited in some degree based on the 
statute. We deliver the benefit, we do not advise. That is 
where Ms. Stovall's team comes in, so I will ask her to add 
just a little bit to that.
    Ms. Stovall. Under VR&E, the way that the statute is 
written, a veteran is able to identify a vocational goal and 
based on that vocational goal would receive the training, 
whether that is a degree, diploma, or certification. They 
receive the training that is recognized for entry into that 
field. Based on comprehensive assessments, the VRC, or 
vocational rehabilitation counselor, will work with them to 
determine what the most appropriate goal would be to get them 
to suitable employment.
    Mr. McGarvey. 20 percent right now are using the GI Bill 
for nondegree options. Do you think that number should be 
higher or lower?
    Ms. Stovall. I would defer that to Mr. Smith.
    Mr. Smith. I do not have an opinion. I do not know what the 
right number should be.
    Mr. McGarvey. Okay, Okay. Right now, it says that VR&E 
employment outcomes are at 74 percent for program completers. 
We have learned that counselor shortages and long wait times 
are part of this problem. Right now, VR&E employment outcomes 
are at 74 percent. That needs to be higher. Right? We have 
heard about counselor shortages, long wait times. How are we 
fixing this problem to make sure that veterans do not have to 
wait months just to start?
    Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. We are looking at 
increasing--well, there is a couple things we are doing as far 
as our transformation efforts to make sure that we can render 
timely services. We have implemented a new case assignment 
system. We have--actually, I forgot to mention it earlier, but 
we do have 91 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) that we will be 
onboarding this month to help with our vacant--fill those 
vacancies. We are also continuing to use some of our help teams 
to assist with backlogs.
    Mr. McGarvey. We are out of time. I have more thing. I do 
want to point out, Mr. Chairman, graduation rates look Okay, 
but only half of graduates land meaningful employment within 
180 days. That is 6 months without a paycheck, so we got to do 
better.
    Mr. Van Orden. Roger that. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Part of this issue is back in the 1970's for some reason 
everybody thought that every single American needed to go to a 
4-year college. They treated the rest of us that decided to 
join the military at 18 like we are less people, and that is 
not the case. The trades are where it is at. If you want to 
work with your hands, work with your hands because that is how 
America is built. America is not built because somebody has a 
degree in 13th century French poetry. It is because a dude went 
to one of these union shops and became a carpenter. Let us just 
remember that.
    These numbers should be higher. The goal is employment. It 
is not a piece of paper on a wall. Let us always remember that.
    A lot of these things I think, you know, my colleagues are 
concerned about. I am, too. I think we need to look at making 
sure that our TAP program addresses this more, that we educate 
our folks getting out of the military about the trades. Show 
them that, you know, you can make an exceptionally good living 
by being a tradesman.
    I went, gee, it was last year, I was driving by, you know, 
doing doors and stuff when I was running for office, a year and 
a half ago, I guess. There was this dude there, he had this 
great house and this bitching boat and a truck and all this 
stuff. I stopped, I asked him what he did for a living. He said 
he is a lineman and his wife went to a tech school and she was 
an X-ray tech. You can live a very, very high-quality life by 
working with your hands. I just need to make sure that 
everybody understands that.
    Mr. Smith, DOL-VETS is not here today, and we talked about 
that earlier. I think it is because of the intransigence of the 
Senate. We need to get those people in here. Can you tell me 
any redundancies between you and DOL-VETS? Between the 
Department of Veterans Affairs and the DOL-VETS.
    Mr. Smith. I do not believe there is any redundancy. We 
certainly partner with DOL-VETS and we leverage their 
registration process for apprenticeships and we then accept 
them. We deem them as approved.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Smith, you guys have similar workforce 
programs, homeless programs. There are a lot of redundancies 
and we see these all the time. Can you tell me all these 
processing things that we have going on, it just seems like it 
is taking a long time. Do you guys use any type of innovative 
technologies to accelerate the process of registering? We have 
got a shortage of our counselors. What type of automated 
processes are in place to help speed along all of these 
functions?
    Mr. Smith. In education, we are very interested in 
automation. Right now we are automating more than 50 percent of 
our claims to speed benefits to people. Mostly--or benefits are 
actually delivered in less than 15 minutes. You can apply for a 
certificate of eligibility and, you know, in a matter of 
minutes know that you are eligible to use your benefits for any 
number of programs.
    Mr. Van Orden. Then it takes, what, 81 days, ma'am, to get 
rolling? Is that right?
    Ms. Stovall. Eighty-one days in reference to?
    Mr. Van Orden. Did not you say it takes 81 days to get 
these things done for the Army?
    Ms. Stovall. The wait time.
    Mr. Van Orden. The wait time.
    Ms. Stovall. The wait time. Correct.
    Mr. Van Orden. If it can be automated in 15 minutes, Mr. 
Smith, why does it take 81 days for completion?
    Mr. Smith. That is on the education side, to provide an 
entitlement determination for the GI Bill.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Smith. Vocational rehabilitation has a different 
process, you know, that requires some additional work on the 
front end.
    Mr. Van Orden. Well, so I used VR&E, and I do not 
understand, I mean, you sit down and you fill out this battery 
of questions, then you talk to somebody. I do not know why that 
takes 81 days. I mean, I just--I simply do not understand that.
    Ms. Stovall. We have, with our new case management system, 
Readiness and Employment System, or RES, we have been able to 
automate the eligibility process.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
    Ms. Stovall. With that, that has reduced the wait time for 
a veteran to be seen by a case manager for an entitlement 
decision.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes, we have lower--we got a bill through 
the House that lowered the education requirement for these 
counselors; used to have a master's degree for this. I do not 
mean to disparage the folks that are doing this job, but it 
simply is not that complicated. More automation, more better. 
We just have to get over this institutional inertia that is the 
VA and focus on the veterans. I know that you guys are doing 
that pretty well.
    With that, I yield back. We will--with that, I yield back, 
and we will be dismissing this panel. Thank you so much for 
your time. I appreciate it greatly. We will take a short break 
while we empanel the next question group.
    [Recess.]
    Mr. Van Orden. The committee will come to order.
    On our second panel, we are going to hear from the 
following witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Greg Hamm, vice 
president of field and government recruiting at Werner 
Enterprise, testifying on behalf of the American Trucking 
Associations (ATA). Our next witness is Gary LaBarbera, Jr. 
Where? There you are. Business agent, Teamsters Local 282, and 
Helmets to Hardhats trade advisor, testifying on behalf of the 
International Brotherhood of Teamsters. I want to thank First 
Sergeant LaBarbera for his service. He just retired. First 
shirt, good job. Semper Fi. We just had our 250th birthday. 
Kind of a big deal. Hope you had a good time. Woke up with a 
headache, probably. Our third witness is Mr. Jerome A. Grant, 
chief executive officer (CEO) at Universal Technical Institute 
(UTI). Our fourth witness is from the great State of Wisconsin. 
Mr. Vang, it is wonderful to see you. Human resources manager 
at ORC Industries. I want to thank Mr. Vang for being here and 
representing my home State. It is great to see you, sir. Our 
final witness is Mr. Dave Bostic, service development manager, 
aftermarket and customer support for Region 4, testifying on 
behalf of Deere & Company.
    I would like all the witnesses to stand and raise your 
right hand, please.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well. You may be seated. Let the record 
reflect that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
    Mr. Hamm, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your testimony.

                     STATEMENT OF GREG HAMM

    Mr. Hamm. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member 
Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting 
me to testify on behalf of the American Trucking Associations 
and Werner Enterprises. My name is Greg Hamm. I am the vice 
president of field and government recruiting at Werner 
Enterprises. As a proud U.S. Army veteran, I understand, both 
personally and professionally, the challenges that come with 
transition into the civilian role.
    The Army transformed my life by giving me the discipline to 
do things the right way, even when no one is watching, the grit 
to push through when things get hard, and the commitment to 
finish what I start, and a sense of honor that comes from being 
part of something bigger than myself. These are the same 
qualities that I see in veterans embarking on civilian careers. 
It is why I am devoted to helping find them opportunities in 
the trucking industry.
    At Werner, we take pride in being one of the Nation's 
largest and most dedicated employers of veterans and military 
families. Our average driver earns over $75,000 a year, and 
many earn well into the six figures. Approximately 20 percent, 
or 1 in 5, of our 13,000 associates are military-connected and 
our goal is to reach 25 percent, or 1 in 4. Our team of veteran 
recruiters has walked the same path as the men and women that 
we serve.
    Veterans entering Werner can pursue careers ranging from 
professional drivers to technicians to safety roles, 
operations, logistics management. We extend educational 
support, tuition assistance, and military community resource 
groups to ensure that veterans and spouses have the tools they 
need to thrive.
    Werner's holistic approach to career development has 
produced countless success stories. One example is Sergeant 
Eric Macedo, who served over 6 years in the Army as a mechanic. 
Despite his extensive experience maintaining complex equipment 
and leading soldiers, he struggled to translate his skills into 
the civilian career. By using his GI Bill benefits to enroll in 
Werner's Registered Apprenticeship program, he earned a CDL, 
quickly advanced at our company, and today he serves as a road 
team captain and as a mentor. Eric frequently tells us that the 
structure and the community that he rediscovered at Werner 
restored his sense of purpose that he felt in the service.
    Eric's story underscores what is possible when policymakers 
and employers work hand in hand. The Federal Government can 
help more veterans like Eric by increasing funding for the 
Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) Operator Safety Training Grant 
program, CMVOST, which will expand access to quality CDL 
programs; passing Chairman Van Orden's Warriors to Workforce 
Act to ease the housing burden on veterans undergoing job 
training; passing the Veterans Transition to Trucking Act to 
reduce the VA's red tape on apprenticeship programs; and 
passing the TRANSPORT Jobs Act to make it easier for veterans 
and their spouses to find jobs in the supply chain.
    Each year, approximately 200,000 servicemembers separate 
from the U.S. armed forces. In trucking and across the country, 
the benefits of hiring veterans are clear: the work ethic, 
leadership, adaptability, teamwork, high moral standard and 
character, and the ability to operate under pressure. Veterans 
bring the values that make the workplace and the supply chain 
stronger. Hiring them is not charity. This is smart business.
    Ranking Member Pappas and Chairman Van Orden demonstrated 
their commitment to expanding meaningful career pathways for 
those who have served by spearheading the passage of the 
Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act last year. 
I am confident that this subcommittee will build on that 
progress to empower veterans and their families and employers 
to broaden and broaden our economy in the months ahead.
    I appreciate the opportunity to join you here today and I 
hope to contribute constructively to your efforts to strengthen 
America's veteran workforce. I look forward to answering your 
questions. Thank you very much.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Greg Hamm Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    Mr. Hamm and Mr. Vang, I did not recognize your service, 
but you were in the Army so I am not supposed to. Just throwing 
that out there. Hey.
    Sorry. That was for you for sure, for sure.
    I now recognize Mr. LaBarbera, Jr., to deliver his opening 
statement.

                  STATEMENT OF GARY LABARBERA

    Mr. LaBarbera. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today on these critical issues. My 
name is Gary LaBarbera, Jr., and I currently serve as a 
business agent for Teamsters Local 282 in New York City as well 
as the Teamsters trade advisor to Helmets to Hardhats, working 
to create employment opportunities for veterans working as 
Teamsters in the building construction trades.
    I retired from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023 as a 
company first sergeant, Company A-125, following two 
deployments for Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and one for 
Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF). My experience is also one of 
a successful transition from military service to civilian union 
employment.
    Following my first deployment, I obtained my commercial 
driver's license and began driving a truck while serving in 
Reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my 
career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy 
construction industry in New York City.
    In total, The Teamsters represent 1.3 million members, 
including tens of thousands of veterans currently serving 
Reservists and military spouses, and we appreciate the 
subcommittee's attention to this issue. We appreciate the 
committee's longstanding bipartisan efforts to improve the 
lives of veterans and to ensure that when they transition they 
can access careers that allow them to take care of themselves 
and their families. It is my hope that from today's hearing 
that the takeaway I can leave you with is the role that the 
Teamsters have and continue to play in securing employment for 
veterans like me, thousands of current members and future 
transitioning veterans.
    As I mentioned, I am the Teamsters representative to the 
Helmets to Hardhats program, which provides opportunities 
within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the 
unionized building trades and has connected nearly 55,000 
veterans to good paying careers since 2003, 13,000 of which 
over the past 5 years. We are able to achieve this through many 
partnerships with trade unions, employers, Department of Labor, 
and many others. I have worked with countless veterans 
connecting them to local training centers and employers, 
affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as 
Teamsters in the construction industry.
    I have also had many discussions with our locals and 
training centers who are committed to aiding our Nation's 
veterans and seek them out while looking to grow their 
workforce. I view this program to be a model of how labor can 
play an essential role in securing good jobs and careers for 
veterans.
    The Teamsters' efforts in this area have been significant 
and wide-reaching. Over the years, our airline division 
membership realized that we were failing to transition military 
aircraft mechanics into civilian service. While we counted many 
veterans among the Teamster-represented pilots, we did not see 
this among the nearly 10,000 aircraft mechanics we represent, 
largely United Airlines. We led an effort to streamline the 
process in the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 
Reauthorization Bill, which the Federal Aviation Administration 
is currently working to complete. We thank Committee Chairman 
Bost for his leadership in securing that language.
    Trucking has long been a strong source of employment for 
veterans, but also an industry where opportunity presents 
itself to work with Congress. For example, we thank 
Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and 
other members of the committee for their leadership on the 
Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act, which was 
signed into law last year and cut unnecessary red tape for CDL 
training.
    Uniquely, Teamster Locals across the country also operate 
our own free or no cost CDL training programs which frequently 
work with transitioning veterans. Our programs graduate highly 
skilled drivers with pathways to stable and well-paid 
employment. The Teamsters are very interested in expanding our 
programs and searching for ways to do so in conjunction with 
Congress. For example, through a large expansion of the 
Department of Transportation's Commercial Motor Vehicle 
Operator Safety Training, CMVOST, Competitive Grant Program. 
Last year the program received less than $4 million in total. 
By increasing the funding for this program substantially, 
Teamster Locals can secure these available funds to expand 
existing programs, increasing offerings, and open new programs 
where they currently do not exist.
    I should also note that the program is a perfect fit for 
today's discussion. The law already creates preference for 
programs which serve veterans, a requirement we strongly 
support. We are prioritizing expansion of CMVOST in ongoing 
surface transportation reauthorization discussions and hope for 
your support as negotiations on that bill continue.
    Finally, we know that members of this subcommittee and the 
full committee have put forth numerous proposals on veteran 
employment and will continue to do so. The Teamsters are fully 
committed to working with all members on this shared goal and 
it is our hope we can both work with you on advancing those 
priorities and that in shaping proposals, programs, and new 
initiatives that you consider the ability of the Teamsters to 
be a partner in those efforts. We are proud to represent the 
greatest range of industries and occupations of any labor 
organization in this country and have a demonstrated track 
record of commitment to our Nation's veterans.
    I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today 
and look forward to any questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Gary LaBarbera Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, First Sergeant. Both your and Mr. 
Hamm's record--or, excuse me, written testimony will be entered 
into the hearing record.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Grant for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF JEROME GRANT

    Mr. Grant. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
speak to you today. It is an honor to speak with you about 
something that is core to our work and essential to our 
Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage career 
pathways for America's veterans.
    My name is Jerome Grant and I serve as CEO of Universal 
Technical Institute, which includes UTI and Concord Career 
Colleges. Across our 32 campuses we focus entirely on hands-on, 
career-focused education in fields that keep this country 
running: automotive, diesel technology, aviation, welding, 
electrical, and energy trades. On the Concord side, nursing, 
dental professions, respiratory therapy, surgical technology, 
and other critical healthcare fields.
    Last year we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military 
affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our 
population. They are central to our mission. They bring 
discipline, maturity, problem solving, and leadership that 
elevate every classroom they are in. At UTI and Concord, we 
have built a support system around them: dedicated admissions, 
financial aid, counselors trained on VA benefits, military 
scholarships, salute to service tuition reductions, career 
coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies.
    Our measure of success is straightforward. Four out of five 
of UTI's graduates are employed in their field of study within 
a year. Our success is measured across the full employment 
cycle. We support graduates for life with placement assistance 
and continuing education that is complementary because, much 
like the military, they carry our name long after they leave 
ranks. With new campuses opening, this impact will continue to 
grow.
    One of the most powerful examples of what works is our 
partnership with the Department of Defense through Skill 
Bridge. UTI operates three on-base programs at Fort Bliss, Fort 
Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of the more than 3,500 Skill 
Bridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200 operate on 
bases.
    Our Skill Bridge programs offer free on-base housing for 
servicemembers, guardsmen, and revision reservists coming from 
other installations. It also is open to dependents because we 
support the whole military family, not just the servicemember. 
We are honored to be among them. We hope to see the base 
commands embrace these important transition opportunities for 
servicemembers.
    These programs cost the servicemembers nothing. Over just 
12 to 16 weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel 
technician training that leads to civilian jobs with starting 
wages above $50,000. There is no gap between leaving the 
military and entering the workforce. It is immediate with life-
changing impact and we should be doing more of it.
    We also work closely with the United Service Organizations 
(USO) and U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hiring Our Heroes program to 
deliver transition workshops, career preparation, and direct 
connections to employers. In every industry we serve, whether 
it is the skilled trades or healthcare, the message from 
employers is the same: we need more talent. Veterans are an 
ideal fit for these skilled collared careers that value 
discipline, teamwork, and technical ability.
    We are proud to be recognized as a military-friendly school 
and veterans-friendly institution. What really matters is not 
the designation, it is outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring 
veterans leave us with strong credentials and even stronger 
careers.
    As for the opportunity to create more visibility into high-
paying jobs and skilled trades, I could not agree more with 
what Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, said just a couple weeks ago. 
The skill gap in the United States is no longer a distant 
warning. It is a present day crisis.
    When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technical 
jobs sitting unfilled it tells us one thing: our country must 
dramatically expand the training pipeline for skilled technical 
careers that keep America moving. Veterans are often well-
suited for these skilled trade jobs.
    At Universal Technical Institute and Concord Career 
Colleges, we are focused every day on solving this problem. 
Across our nationwide campuses, UTI trains students in 
automotive, diesel, Electric Vehicle (EV), hybrid systems, 
welding, aviation maintenance, electrical, and energy 
technology, the very roles Ford and the entire transportation 
and mobility sectors urgently need.
    As part of UTI's success is our industry-leading 
partnerships and manufacturers allow us to offer both industry 
and company-specific training sought by our employers. We have 
manufacturer-specific advanced training programs with Ford, 
General Motors, Daimler Trucks, Cummins Engines, and several 
other incredible manufacturers.
    We are eager to expand these partnerships with leading 
manufacturers to meet the needs of the moment. That includes 
scaling EV and next generation propulsion training, creating 
more Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) aligned curriculum 
and growing career pathways, opening additional on-base 
programs, and working together to recruit more veterans, career 
changers, and young adults to these skilled collared careers.
    America cannot remain competitive without a strong 
technical workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate and 
partner----

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jerome Grant Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlemen's time has expired. Sir, your 
written testimony will be entered into the record.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Bostic for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF DAVID BOSTIC

    Mr. Bostic. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today. My name is David Bostic and I am here on behalf 
of John Deere to share information about an issue that affects 
thousands of transition servicemembers every year, which is the 
successful reintegration into the civilian workforce.
    As you know, our Nation's veterans bring unmatched skills 
and resilience to their communities. Yet despite these 
strengths, many face significant challenges transitioning from 
military service. This issue hits me close to home. In 1997, 
fresh out of high school, I started work as a technician at a 
John Deere dealership in Lexington, Illinois. Except for the 
years spent in college and in the Marine Corps, I have spent my 
career supporting John Deere customers, first with a wrench in 
my hand and then in every single corporate role I have held at 
John Deere for the past 18 years.
    John Deere manufactures equipment and technology that 
enables our customers to produce the food, fiber, fuel, and 
infrastructure that supports a growing global population. To 
accomplish this, we employ over 30,000 employees across 16 U.S. 
states, including 250 employees in Chairman Van Orden's 
district. We do not do this alone. John Deere equipment is sold 
and serviced by a network of independently owned dealers, like 
United Ag and Turf and James R. Rosencrantz & Sons in 
Congressman Pappas' district. These are small businesses 
embedded in thousands of communities across the United States 
that employ an additional 50,000 people. Currently, these 
dealerships face a critical shortage of skilled workers, 
especially equipment technicians.
    John Deere has always been a staunch supporter of this 
country's military and its veterans. Over the past several 
years, we have taken greater strides to advocate and support 
for veterans. In 2019, a team of fellow veterans and I launched 
John Deere's military hiring program. It was designed to help 
connect dealers with technicians to close the skilled trades 
gap.
    Our goal was simple. We were set out to follow three key 
principles. First, be simple to navigate for servicemembers and 
dealerships. My team and I take on as much of the logistical 
and paperwork workload as possible. Second, add value to the 
servicemember and their potential employer. To do this, we 
provide free training to the candidates. This helps sets them 
up for success and it helps translate the skills that they have 
gained in the military into terms civilian employers can 
understand. Last, we stay focused on positive outcomes. Our 
goal is not charity or good press. Our goal is the successful 
employment of our participants.
    Since 2019, our dealers have hired approximately 800 
veterans, including hosting over 300 Skill Bridge interns, 
which has become a cornerstone of our military hiring program. 
Today, I urge the subcommittee to consider stronger 
partnerships between the government and employers to manage 
transition programs like Skill Bridge.
    Employers are on the front lines of the workforce 
development. We understand the skills needed, the gaps, and the 
potential that veterans can bring to their organizations. By 
involving employers directly, we can ensure programs are 
relevant and responsive to a rapidly changing labor market.
    Here are three key recommendations. First, formalize 
employer advisory councils to help shape transition programs 
like Skill Bridge, ensuring alignment with industry needs. 
Second, expand incentives for small and midsize employers to 
hire veterans and participate in programs like Skill Bridge. At 
John Deere, we are able to leverage our size and infrastructure 
to help our independent dealers navigate this process. Many 
small businesses would benefit from a similar model. Third, 
create a centralized employer portal to streamline veterans' 
benefits, track outcomes, and share best practices across 
industries. Well-intentioned businesses often struggle to 
navigate the existing systems and connect with the right 
resources.
    In closing, I ask for your leadership to create a future 
where the government, veterans, and employers have a clear path 
to create positive economic opportunities. It is often said 
that the best recruiting tool the military has is a 
servicemember that becomes a successful civilian.
    Thank you for your time and commitment to those who have 
worn the uniform.

    [The Prepared Statement Of David Bostic Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Mr. Bostic, your 
written testimony will be entered into the record.
    I am going to throw a little Semper Fi to you, too. Kilo 
Company, is that right?
    Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir, Kilo 324.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Al Anbar? Al Anbar?
    Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Garden spot, was not it? It was not at all. 
Yes.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Vang for 5 minutes. Before I 
say this, Mr. Vang, I have been to your facility and it is 
remarkable. What you guys do there is life-changing for so many 
people. It gets not just the veteran side. I am talking about 
some of the other folks that are there. They take tremendous 
pride in getting up and going to work. They are part of a 
community. They are supporting themselves and their family. I 
want to personally thank you for changing the lives of 
thousands of people. It is just remarkable.
    With that, sir, I yield to you for 5 minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF YING VANG

    Mr. Vang. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the 
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on 
strengthening the veteran workforce through nontraditional 
career path in manufacturing. My name is Yang Vang. I am here 
on behalf of ORC Industries, a not-for-profit manufacturer 
dedicated to creating meaningful employment opportunities, 
especially for individual disabilities and for our veterans.
    Across the country, manufacturers are facing a workforce 
shortage. National Association of Manufacturers estimates by 
2030 up to 2.1 manufacturing positions will need to be filled. 
It is a readiness problem. It is an economic opportunity 
problem. For our veterans in particular, a missed chance to 
connect people who are ready to serve and work that truly 
matters.
    One of the most overlooked part of the sector is cut-and-
sew manufacturing. It is a highly specialized trade, but not 
unlike many fields, it does not require a 4-year degree. It 
does require training, discipline, precision, and the ability 
to show up every day to do the job right.
    When a servicemember transitions out of the military, many 
of them are not looking for a traditional office job. They want 
to work. The work that they want is hands-on. They are used to 
being part of a team. They are motivated by mission and not a 
paycheck. They are exactly the conditions. These are the 
conditions, especially on a manufacturing floor: a shared 
mission, clear standards, and a culture where everyone's role 
matters.
    Unfortunately, significant barriers keep many veterans from 
considering these paths. First, there is a awareness problem. 
When servicemembers go through transition counseling, 
manufacturing, especially cut-and-sew, is rarely presented as a 
high-value, long-term career. Many veterans simply do not know 
these jobs exist. We can change that. I urge Congress to ensure 
that career transitions explicitly include a pathway to 
manufacturing, including trades like cut-and-sew.
    The Department of Labor register apprenticeship programs 
are powerful tools. We need to use it and we need to extend it. 
Provide additional training funding incentive for veterans in 
these role. These will increase the pipeline.
    Second, there are constraints in the GI Bill that can be 
used. Many veterans need short-term, skill-focused training 
programs, not 2 or 4 years in classroom. Right now it can be 
difficult to fully utilize the GI Bill. We need to condense 
training stackable credentials in trades like cut-and-sew 
manufacturing, expand eligibility, and flexibility.
    Third, the cost of training falls entirely on the employer. 
For a not-for-profit manufacturer, like ORC, and many other 
small mid-sized businesses, the desire to hire and train 
veterans is there. The margins are tight. Every dollar invested 
in training has to be carefully weighted. Congress can help by 
derisking the investments, targeted training grants, tax cut, 
tax credit, dedicated funding for veterans-focused 
apprenticeship, and work experience program.
    ORC's mission is to employ individuals with disability 
while strengthening America's manufacturing base, including 
creating opportunity for veterans. Our cut-and-sew lines 
produce critical defense textile product. Veterans working on 
these products can see a direct line between their work and the 
readiness of the next generation of servicemember.
    At ORC, we receive--employees receive an onsite training 
regardless of their educational background. We do not require a 
4-year degree. We require willingness to learn to work as a 
team to meet with high-quality standard. We promote from 
within.
    In closing, I want to emphasize three key points. First, 
cut-and-sew manufacturing, skilled trade more broadly, offers 
scalable, nontraditional career path for veterans that do not 
require a 4-year degree, but do offer dignity, purpose, and 
advancement. Second, better awareness of traditional programs, 
more flexibility. Third, when we do this, we do not just help 
veterans. We strengthen America's manufacturing capability, our 
national readiness. We close critical work gaps, support 
domestic production of defense textile, and other strategic 
goods, and demonstrate that this country still values skilled 
trades as a vital part of our economy.
    Thank you for your time and for your commitment to 
expanding opportunity for those who serve.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Ying Vang Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Thank you, Mr. Vang. 
Your written testimony will be entered into the record.
    For anybody that is wondering, in fact, everyone from the 
State of Wisconsin has the same tie. I know, right? It is kind 
of cool.
    All right. We will now proceed to questioning.
    The chair now recognizes Ranking Member Pappas for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Pappas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank our panelists for their testimony today. I 
think it is all important for us to consider as we think about 
how we match up the skills and potential of our veterans who 
are being separated from service with the opportunities that 
are out there and the need in so many critical sectors of our 
economy. I appreciate the work that you are all doing and how 
you are bringing together education and labor and the private 
sector to help solve this problem and to help make sure our 
veterans have everything they need to thrive.
    Mr. Bostic, if I can start with you. I want to thank you 
for what you have put on the table here today and talking a 
little bit more about your military hiring program that you 
stood up. It sounds like you did it in a way that provided the 
best opportunity for veterans to have access to it. I thank you 
for the feedback that you have provided in terms of how we can 
improve things with respect to veteran employment. You talked 
about employer advisory councils to, you know, better reflect 
the feedback from the private sector; incentives for smaller 
employers to participate, which absolutely is something that 
Congress needs to focus on. It should not just be big business 
that is able to be able to navigate these programs and create 
opportunities for veterans, because we know most of our 
employers fall into the small business category.
    I just want to see if I could get a little bit more detail 
from you on this central portal idea that you had. There are so 
many different programs out there with overlapping points of 
contact and employment coordinators with responsibilities that 
overlap with each other. Can you talk about the value in having 
this in one place and whether you think Congress needs to give 
better guidance to various departments to consolidate and 
delineate responsibilities and ensure that agencies are working 
together with the end goal of opening more doors to veterans?
    Mr. Bostic. Certainly, and thank you for the question. Yes, 
absolutely. A centralized portal, some single point of 
communication that streamlines exactly what benefits a veteran 
qualifies for or what benefits an employer would qualify for 
would be extremely helpful. It kind of mirrors how I run the 
program. With our military hiring program we are the single 
point of contact for the veterans and the servicemembers that 
come to us as well as the dealers.
    We do not get too heavily involved within the specific 
benefits. I am just the matchmaker between the veterans, 
servicemembers, and the dealerships. That process of having 
somebody that knows there is one phone call they can make, 
there is one email address they can send an email off to, or 
one website they can go to and get a single point of 
information is extremely helpful.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks very much for your feedback.
    Mr. Hamm, if I can turn to you, thanks as well for talking 
a little bit about the career development focus that your 
company has had. I appreciate you relating some of the feedback 
from the American Trucking Association and talking about some 
of the legislation that we have considered and hopefully will 
consider soon to cut red tape and help more veterans secure 
employment in the trucking industry. I thank the ATA for 
supporting that legislation.
    Has the ATA seen any impact on a bill that we already 
passed and was signed into law last year, the Veteran 
Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act? Do you have any 
recommendations on other steps Congress should be taking to pay 
close attention to this issue in terms of implementation?
    Mr. Hamm. I thank the ranking member for his question. We 
have already seen impact across agencies, especially those that 
have multiple locations across multiple states. The old 
inability to have students access their GI Bill benefits just 
because you were in another State location of a corporation or 
an entity that had it already approved in another State was 
burdensome on the veterans trying to use their benefits. We 
have already seen, in just the short year that it has been in 
effect, we have already seen progress in students having access 
to funding through their GI Bill benefits to get quality 
education at these quality training providers.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks for that feedback. That is 
important.
    Mr. LaBarbera, if I can talk to you a little bit about CDL 
as well. You mentioned in your written testimony about the bad 
actors that are out there. Can you talk a little bit more about 
the impact that this has on the lives of student veterans and 
what we should be paying attention to make sure that there are 
some guardrails and that we are protecting, ultimately, 
veterans to be able to get access to the right programming so 
that they can get the skills they need to have good-paying 
jobs?
    Mr. LaBarbera. Yes. Thank you. Anywhere where somebody can 
gain a few dollars, I feel there are people out there that will 
do that. There are all these programs where they will bring a 
veteran in, they will spit them out with a license, and then 
you are on your own. That is not what we do as the Teamsters 
and the programs that we work with is you come in with us, we 
train you, and then you go into a good career that has--
sustaining for your family and medical benefits and to be able 
to provide for your family for your whole life.
    Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much. I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Ciscomani from Arizona.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Grant, welcome. 
Thanks for being here, sir.
    You know, with Universal Technical Institute's headquarters 
and major campus being in Arizona, you connect firsthand with 
veterans that are looking for technical and vocational training 
programs. We talked a little bit about in the previous panel on 
the demand and the interest from veterans being way, way higher 
on the 4-year degree versus some of these vocational programs 
that, quite frankly, they are in a higher need, I was kidding 
around in the last panel, than any of the other maybe 
professions out there. More on the technical side, but yet we 
see 3-1/2 percent or so of the interest in that.
    That is a challenge that I think we need to take as a 
society overall to say how do we promote that more, especially 
among our veterans that I think are eager to get in there. Most 
of the people that go to these programs graduate debt-free and 
they start making a good living, definitely more than what I 
was making with a bachelor's degree in political science right 
after college and with student loan debt as well.
    What--so I am trying to get a gauge here. What policy or 
administrative barriers impede veterans from enrolling in 
technical programs like this? How can Congress help expand 
access to high-wage technical careers?
    Mr. Grant. Sure. What a great question. It is come up a 
couple of different times in the conversations here, so I am 
glad it is part of the conversation.
    First of all, the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458, starts 
to address some of the barriers that currently stand in the way 
of people picking these sort of careers. I think the best way 
to think about it is from ford of a high level. You are coming 
out of the military and you want to access your GI Bill. You 
can either go to a 4-year school or you could go to a technical 
school. Not every technical school and not every program in 
every technical school and not every technical school that has 
hybrid or online programs. Which one sounds easier for you to 
make a decision?
    Mr. Ciscomani. Yes. No, I agree. Can you tell me why that 
is?
    Mr. Grant. Well, because it is the way the statutes are 
written.
    Mr. Ciscomani. The statutes are written that only certain 
technical programs apply?
    Mr. Grant. To certain ways and certain accredited 
institutions can go or you could go to every 4-year school. 
When you are coming out and you want to take advantage of the 
GI Bill because it is well-earned and you are going to be a 
great person out there in the world, there is just a lot of 
having to think it through that happens when you are thinking 
about taking----
    Mr. Ciscomani. It almost feels like the system is guiding 
our veterans or anyone to go into that 4-year degree route 
versus anything else. It almost seems like discouraging to go a 
different route.
    Mr. Grant. Well, that gets to there is really two issues, 
that gets to the second issue, which is there is a very 
longstanding cultural bias----
    Mr. Ciscomani. Yes.
    Mr. Grant [continuing]. to go to 4-year schools. We have 
153 career counselors on high school campuses. There are 
hundreds of high schools that will not allow our students--our 
career counselors on their campuses because they do not want 
their kids to go to technical schools. We need to continue to 
break that down and get more programs into the high schools, 
into the community colleges, and then cleanup some of the 
language that makes it easier for servicemembers.
    Mr. Ciscomani. I am all for that. I am running out of time. 
I cannot really see my time, but I feel that it is coming. 
1:45. I am sitting in that one angle that you cannot see either 
clock here. It is not that my eyesight is that bad, I promise.
    I want to continue this conversation with you. You know, we 
had a veteran, actually a plumber that came over to our house 
and when he was leaving and we looking at the invoice, I told 
my wife we are in the wrong business here. You know, this is a 
good-paying job and for our veterans, we love that this is 
happening and we need to encourage more people to get in there 
as well.
    I will switch real quick with the time that I have left on 
CDL. Mr. Hamm, if I can ask you this. My dad who, you know, 
talk about the stigma and all this. My family, as I think some 
of you know this, immigrated from Mexico. When my parents were 
like, what do you want your son to be? Some careers were not 
what they would have preferred. Now looking back it is like, 
you know, it could have been, you know, for many people that 
perspective changing.
    My dad had a CDL. He was a bus driver most of the time that 
we have been in this amazing Nation. The trucking industry 
reports a high need for commercial drivers, certified drivers, 
and highlights that 12.9 percent of veterans already hold the 
CDL. Right? I went one of the training sites and they focus 
heavily in recruiting veterans as well. Can you talk a little 
bit about that? What can the VA do better here in supporting 
and training these programs and the GI Bill with the VR&E 
program?
    Mr. Hamm. I cannot really speak specifically to the VR&E, 
but I can tell you that, you know, interest in our--in the 
supply chain, interest in commercial driver's license is not 
just a--you know, it is a security issue, it is a national 
security issue. This is an area that we have to spend money on, 
we have to focus on. I think you know, multiple people on the 
panel have talked about CMVOST and the appropriate nature in 
which we fund----
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
    The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from Illinois.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you from the great State of Illinois. 
Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank all of you for being here 
with us today. Really appreciate the work that you do to ensure 
that our veterans are getting good-paying, living wage jobs so 
that they can retire with dignity.
    Look, the work that we do in this committee is incredibly 
important and, frankly, it is our responsibility to ensure that 
we are safeguarding and protecting the full benefits our 
veterans earn and deserve. Access to quality education is one 
of those promises we have made to veterans and it is our job 
every single day to deliver for them.
    However, in recent years student veterans have been 
targeted by bad actors, folks who are seeking to enrich 
themselves by exploiting veterans' GI Bill benefits. I find 
that unacceptable. I have been talking about it since I got 
here to Congress 3 years ago. Veterans should be able to choose 
an educational program that meets their needs while being 
confident that their choice is going to result in high-quality 
education that ultimately results in good paying jobs. When a 
student veteran is defrauded by bad faith actors, it is only 
the right to be able to have a recourse to restore their GI 
Bill benefits.
    That is why almost 3 years ago I introduced the Student 
Veteran Benefits Restoration Act of 2025. The bill would ensure 
that veterans who have been victims of fraudulent practices by 
predatory institutions of higher education receive the 
educational benefits that they were entitled to so they could 
actually graduate and get the jobs that they deserve. We 
actually passed this bill out of the House with bipartisan 
support and with a lot of support from the chairman here last 
Congress.
    I want to make sure that I, for the record, note that I am 
urging my colleagues to support the bill as a first step to 
protecting our veterans from this fraudulent behavior.
    Now, I want to talk about 2017. Congress made a deliberate 
decision to exclude nondegree independent study programs from 
GI Bill eligibility due to the rampant fraud and exploitation 
in nondegree independent study programs.
    Mr. Grant, I wanted to ask you a question. What do you 
think in your opinion has changed now to justify allowing 
nondegree independent study programs to use the GI Bill 
benefits when we know that they are still being exposed to the 
same risks that we saw back then? What has changed for you?
    Mr. Grant. Well, thank you for the opportunity to respond 
to that. Number one, I will not pretend to be the voice of an 
entire educational industry. I can speak very highly for 
Universal Technical Institute and its outcomes.
    I also would like to follow up on one of your other 
questions around the number of employed veterans that are out 
in the market after 6 months because your statistic is 
accurate, which gets to the notion of quality of education, but 
it is not complete. The reason is, is that because the military 
benefits are 36 months, many of our veterans, 3,300 we educated 
last year, go on and do another program. Once they graduate 
from one program, say it takes a year, they will go on and do 
another 6-month or 9-month program. They do not get credit for 
going to school for that other program.
    Anyway, so we pride ourselves on their outcomes and the 
high degree of integrity around the industry alignment. We are 
very proud of what we put out in the market in terms of veteran 
graduates.
    Ms. Ramirez. That is great. Let me ask you, I am really 
concerned about bad actors and veterans' education. I think you 
are as well and I know from the work that you do. I guess my 
question is like what are we doing to ensure that we are 
preventing these risks from continuing to happen?
    Let me, I have a little bit of time so I just need to get 
to the next question.
    Mr. Grant. Sure.
    Ms. Ramirez. If I can, I will come back to you.
    Mr. Grant. Sure.
    Ms. Ramirez. Mr. Bostic, your company participated in the 
Skill Bridge, which has employment rates above 90 percent. 
Meanwhile, we are seeing the consequences of programs like VET 
TEC overpromising and undelivering. Mr. Bostic, what should the 
VA in Congress be looking for to distinguish high-quality 
training providers from those who offer training without real 
career opportunities at the end, where they end up having to go 
to other programs and other programs?
    Mr. Bostic. That is a fantastic question. Thank you. I will 
allude to what is been mentioned several times in this 
testimony already is to track outcomes, especially in the 
skilled trades where we have such a deficit across all 
industries from transportation, manufacturing, repair, all of 
those. There is really no reason why a training institution or 
a company would not be able to put somebody through a training 
program and get them employed. For me, when looking at any 
program, and especially how I look at our own program and 
evaluate its success, is to look at, you know, how many 
veterans, how many servicemembers are we actually getting 
employed?
    Ms. Ramirez. Let me ask one last question in 7 seconds. Do 
you believe restoring benefits to veterans who are defrauded 
would be beneficial for higher employment rates and veteran 
career progression?
    Mr. Bostic. I believe so, it would, yes. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
    The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the 
Northern Mariana Islands.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    It is not too often where I sit in front of folks who have 
shared their successful transition from military life to 
civilian life and so I want to start with you, Mr. LaBarbera. 
Thank you for your service. Congratulations on your retirement.
    You stated in your testimony that, you know, that journey 
has been successful for you. I just really want to hear more 
about it to better understand where the gaps are and how we can 
look at the system that we have in terms of policy to formulate 
some of these action plans.
    Mr. LaBarbera. Sure. For my experience, I came out and I 
was fortunate enough to have an opportunity in my reserve 
status. I think that the big gap is education for the young 
servicemember that comes out. I know, you know, there is TAP in 
the services. There is a lot of different things that are out 
there, but there is so much information that comes out. From 
veterans that I talk to on a regular basis, what I see is they 
are just looking for opportunities on things to do and they are 
kind of, you know, I will use the analogy of throwing spaghetti 
at a wall and seeing what sticks sort of. I think just a little 
more education and a little more one-on-one time with them, 
maybe during that transition period on what is a viable option 
for them.
    One thing that I have heard a lot today from everybody here 
is, you know, a skilled trade is really--you know, it is not 
something that people should be looking down on. It is a great 
career path, whether it be with the Teamsters or any other, in 
my opinion, organized union trade. That is something that 
people should be striving for.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Did you actively seek out the opportunities 
that you have now or was this something that was connected to 
you through some nonprofit that directly deals with the VA?
    Mr. LaBarbera. No, I was not through any nonprofit. It was 
a simple referral process. Somebody said, would you like to, 
you know, come work here and drive a truck? I said, sure. Then 
after my second deployment, when I had returned home, I had the 
opportunity through referrals to join Local 282 and begin my 
excellent story.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. Thank you for that.
    My next question is to Mr. Bostic or Mr. Vang. You both 
spoke about incentivizing companies and I wanted to kind of 
further flesh out what that would look like in terms of policy, 
so.
    Mr. Vang. I believe that, you know, it is really just 
opening up, you know, the door for veterans here, meaning that, 
you know, helping. You know, a lot of the costs, we as the 
employer take on that burden, especially with the training. For 
us at ORC, you know, I do have tuition reimbursement program 
for our employees, but the goal here is getting them trained, 
getting them in, taking them through the process. It costs a 
lot of money from my time, all of the management time, to the 
training time, to the employer's time, to the lead person time. 
Having incentive out there to help employers, especially when 
our budget is tight, would be beneficial to open that door.
    Ms. King-Hinds. What would that look like specifically?
    Mr. Vang. I mean, average, if you really look at it, you 
know, cost of training is between 3-to $5,000 per individual, 
an employee. You know, being able to take on that burden with 
subsidies coming in would really, really help us expand that 
door for all of our veterans.
    Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. I have about a minute left. Mr. 
Bostic, can you chime in on some of those suggestions that you 
stated during your testimony, specifically the incentive part?
    Mr. Bostic. Yes, ma'am. The--I will echo what was said 
earlier with the biggest--one of the biggest upfront costs is 
training. Remarkably very similar dollar figures on the 
equipment technician side.
    In addition to wages, the training is one of the largest 
upfront costs. We are able to discount, provide for free a lot 
of our internal training to servicemembers. I know the 
dealerships that have hired our servicemembers, they provide a 
lot of training up front as well. Several of our dealers will 
even sponsor veterans to go on to an accredited community 
college, an actual diesel tech program, and do not require the 
servicemembers to use their own GI Bill benefits to do so.
    Ms. King-Hinds. All right. Thank you for that. I yield my 
time.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State 
of Kentucky.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. LaBarbera, I wanted to start with you today. You warned 
about predatory CDL programs targeting veterans. What 
safeguards should Congress put in place to make sure that GI 
Bill funds only--and supports high-quality training providers?
    Mr. LaBarbera. I am not sure I have an exact recommendation 
of what safeguards could go in place, but I think really 
looking at them and if you look at, like I said before, 
something that leads into a career and not just a CDL program, 
I think, you know, focusing the time and resources on that, I 
think will be beneficial.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. Mr. Bostic, John Deere's Skill 
Bridge program has already shown how veterans can move straight 
into dealership careers where employers are directly involved. 
Building on that success, what should VA do to formalize 
employer advisory councils and make it easier for small 
businesses to take part in Skill Bridge?
    Mr. Bostic. I do not have a good answer. It is--it is a--
honestly, it is a complicated issue as far as getting the right 
people involved at the right time for the right purposes. 
Again, I do not have a ton of interaction with the VA benefits. 
As I said earlier, I connect them with dealers. It is just in 
my own personal experience at trade shows or career shows or 
events similar to this one, when you have employers together 
talking about the gaps that they need filled, best practices, 
and especially when they have the ear of legislatures in the 
same area, those sort of conversations foster a lot of change 
and a lot of growth. Anything along those same similar lines 
would be beneficial.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. I think, you know, what you all 
are saying is what we want as well, right? Veterans do not just 
need programs. Veterans need jobs. We got to make sure that 
programs, even if they are well-intention programs up here, are 
actually leading to veterans getting jobs. We know that 
employer-focused pathways work. We know that short-term 
education programs need accountability. We know that there 
needs to be transparency from the VA, especially how they are 
implementing the Dole Act and Rudisill. You know, I want to 
make sure that transparency is there, accountability is there, 
and that when the rubber meets the road and our veterans who 
are motivated, who are skilled, are coming into civilian life, 
that we are able to help with that transition from the military 
to getting a good job, so they can take care of themselves, 
take care of their families, just as they took care of us when 
they have the uniform on.
    Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    What has come up repeatedly is the education industrial 
complex. That is what that is. It has essentially turned into a 
racket. Let us be honest. We got these kids going to school. 
They get out with hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of 
debt and zero ability to be employed. That is just wrong and it 
has got to stop.
    You know, I guess I could say I have a complicated 
relationship with higher education because, you know, we need 
to have these schools. You got to remember someone did go to a 
4-year institution and then maybe for a couple extra years and 
they got a master's in electrical engineering, but then they 
handed the plans to a dude that went to your training program 
who did the wiring. There is room for everybody here. We just 
got to understand that when we are out of foot soldiers, you 
cannot win a war. That is who you guys are representing just to 
be super clear.
    Mr. Bostic, you made a very profound statement. One of the 
best recruiting tools is a highly employed and happy veteran. I 
need you to talk to your folks and I appreciate that 
tremendously. I want to know your Touch to the Transition 
Assistance Program. When is the last time your people have been 
on a military base and speaking to folks that are Active Duty 
that are on their way out of the service?
    Mr. Bostic. I make it a point to be to as many on-base 
career fairs as possible. We are a corporate sponsor of several 
organizations, like Recruit Military, Hiring Our Heroes, and 50 
Strong, and participate in them. Every time that I am on a 
military base, I make it a point to go and talk to the 
Transition Assistance Office to make sure that they are aware 
of our program and our benefits.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got to--me and Chris got to make 
sure that you get there more often and that door is open for 
you.
    Mr. Vang, have you guys ever been over to Fort McCoy or to 
Volk Field to talk to the folks that are separating?
    Mr. Vang. Yes, actually, I am actually stationed right at 
Fort McCoy.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Vang. I do work closely with the team there. Again, you 
know, especially in our manufacturing. It is actually really, 
really difficult. It is a skill set.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
    Mr. Vang. Okay. It is tough.
    Mr. Van Orden. If you guys do not know, they make our white 
hats, which is kind of cool. The Dixie cup, that is what your 
brains call it, I know.
    Mr. Grant, what is your Touch to TAP program?
    Mr. Grant. We have 26 employees who are former military 
that are on 26 bases around the country giving career 
counseling seminars on a regular basis.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Let us make that 50.
    Mr. Grant. All right.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay? We got a lot of bases.
    Mr. Grant. I would also like to say I did not get the memo 
on the tie. I am from the great State of Wisconsin.
    Mr. Van Orden. Where are you from in Wisconsin?
    Mr. Grant. I was born in Milwaukee, raised in Racine, 
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) graduate.
    Mr. Van Orden. Oh, really? Okay. Well, let us get the memo 
out next time.
    First Sergeant, what is your Touch to the TAP program?
    Mr. LaBarbera. Our Touch is through the Helmets to Hardhats 
program, where there are regional managers that visit every 
site that is available to a member base anytime they are there. 
I think it is roughly 25,000 veterans they touch on a regular 
basis----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. LaBarbera [continuing]. that contact Helmets to 
Hardhats seeking a career.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Mr. Hamm.
    Mr. Hamm. Thank you for the question. Yes, we are on the 
bases every single week. We have got a team of people that 
travel the country every single week and are attending the TAP 
program briefings and actively trying to recruit folks to come 
to our great industry.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got some of my fellows back there 
with those funny hats on. We got to make sure that you guys are 
connected to our Veterans Service Organizations (VSO), also. It 
is critically important. We need the American Legion, we need 
the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. (VFW), Disabled Vets. 
She is in the back corner hiding from DVA. We got to make sure 
that you guys are connected. As Mr. McGarvey said before he 
departed, it is about jobs.
    We have an issue with the Skill Bridge program, and we are 
trying to make sure--I mean, we have paid for this thing, and 
we are kind of getting the Heisman once in a while from the 
Active-Duty component. We are going to start working with those 
cats, because if we are not filling those billets or if they 
are going to a certain pay grade, which they are, you know, 
that is not Okay. We will be working--I am also on the House 
Armed Services Committee. We bring this up because we got to 
get those people into these programs that we have because they 
are critically important.
    With that, I am going to yield back.
    I want to thank you all for coming to discuss veterans' 
employment. It is critically important, as I just said. It is 
clear that this is an invaluable program for our veterans and 
something--we need more guarantees for jobs for our veterans 
when they get out. I hope to continue working with Chris, my 
friend, and the rest of the committee to improve the 
administration of these approved apprenticeship programs and 
enhance them in private sector and nonprofit sector to continue 
to help future generations.
    With that, I would like to yield Mr. Pappas for any 
comments you may have.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the 
witnesses all attending today and for your testimony. I know it 
takes a lot out of your day to be able to travel here, but we 
benefit from having your voice in this conversation.
    We need to be able to track skill growth, income, and 
career building within the industry long term to truly see if 
these employment programs that we have been talking about today 
are successful for veterans. I took notice that almost all the 
written testimony contained references to TAP. Getting 
employment wrong, especially during a transition out of the 
military or between duty statuses for our National Guard and 
Reserve component servicemembers, put the veteran and their 
family at risk for negative outcomes like housing insecurity, 
food insecurity, substance abuse, and suicidal ideations. That 
is why we need to ensure that veterans are protected from scams 
and programs that waste their time. TAP was not the subject of 
this hearing, but it is a crucial piece of this discussion. I 
hope to see improvements on the program in the upcoming 
National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), including a TAP 
curriculum for spouses and families.
    I was disappointed to read in the American Legion statement 
that the Department of Defense recently declined to meet with 
them on TAP, and I hope to continue rigorous oversight of that 
program with you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you very much for everyone's contributions and I 
yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered.
    This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 





      
      
      
      
      


            
      
=======================================================================


                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

=======================================================================














                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              

                  Prepared Statement of Kenneth Smith

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished 
Members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear 
before you today to discuss how we can strengthen the Veteran 
workforce. Accompanying me today is Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive 
Director, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) Service.
    As critical members of the workforce, empowering Veterans 
continuously proves to be a catalyst for revitalizing and driving 
America forward. Congress has authorized several training and education 
programs to accomplish this and ensure Veterans have impactful civilian 
careers.

Service Member Support

    The Transition Assistance Program (TAP) provides support for 
transitioning Service members through an interagency effort led by the 
Department of War (DoW), Department of Labor, and the Small Business 
Administration, which is supported by VA and other Federal agencies. 
Every year, TAP prepares about 200,000 Service members to return to the 
civilian world. As part of the general 5-day TAP curriculum, there is a 
1-day mandatory VA Benefits and Services course that covers many VA 
benefits and services available to Service members, their families, and 
caregivers. TAP serves as an important opportunity for introducing 
transitioning Service members to their education benefits, but it is 
only one touchpoint. As all Members on the Dais know, it takes several 
touches over a period and through a variety of media to commit this 
critical information to memory. Further, if a Veteran is not intending 
to use their education benefits immediately upon separation, they are 
less inclined to see the benefit of the information VA is providing 
through TAP.

Transition Support

    Understanding these challenges, VA launched the VA Solid Start 
(VASS) Program in 2019 to make early, consistent, and caring contact 
with newly separated Veterans.\1\ VASS requires VA staff to call all 
eligible Veterans at three key stages during their first year after 
separation from the armed forces. By doing this, VASS aims to increase 
the likelihood that recently separated Veterans will get connected to 
VA earlier and utilize VA benefits and services. VA also sends 
transitioning Service members comprehensive employment information 
through VA's early communications initiative which begins 1 year before 
separation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ On October 17, 2022, VASS was signed into law (https://
www.Congress.gov/117/plaws/publ205/PLAW-117publ205.pdf), permanently 
authorizing VA to expand VASS with DoD coordination.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post Separation Support

    Once a Veteran determines they wish to utilize their VA education 
benefits to upskill or improve their employability, VA has two pillar 
programs--VR&E and the GI Bill. For Veterans who are eligible for these 
programs, they can access supportive services with proven outcomes.

VR&E Engagement

    VR&E services and assistance are delivered through five tracks of 
service. Four of the five tracks focus on employment and employment-
related services with Service members and Veterans. Across all tracks, 
Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors help Veterans and Service members 
develop a highly individualized plan, monitor their progress, and 
provide professional counseling and support. Service members and 
Veterans are also supported by Employment Coordinators whose role is to 
assist in direct job placement and sustainment.
    VR&E leverages programs such as the Non-Paid Work Experience which 
enable participants to bridge the experience gap by gaining training 
and practical job experience. VR&E also includes use of on-the-job 
training (OJT) and registered apprenticeships to expand employment 
opportunities for Veterans. Through these initiatives, VR&E supports 
Veterans in developing marketable skills and trades via non-college 
degree programs with hands-on training experiences that offer quick 
entry into the labor market. Occupational programs in this area include 
contracting specialists, truck drivers, plumbers, and many more.
    Veterans who complete a program of rehabilitation show 
significantly better outcomes compared to those who stop participating, 
such as higher employment rates (74 percent vs. 40 percent) and greater 
income earnings ($90,000 vs. $60,000). Additionally, their reliance on 
supplemental programs decreased (35 percent vs. 58 percent).\2\ In 
Fiscal Year 2025, VR&E exceeded its previous record with 10,527 
employment outcomes out of 19,372 positive outcomes for Veterans 
exiting the program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Fiscal Year 2023 Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) 
Longitudinal Study (https://www.benefits.va.gov/VOCREHAB/docs/FY2023-
longitudinal-study.pdf)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Utilizing Education Benefits

    Separate from VR&E, VA's pathway for Veterans to develop skills to 
enter the workforce is the GI Bill, which allows for non-4-year 
programs including an array of vocational or technical training, 
including certificate programs, licensing and certification exams, and 
OJT and registered apprenticeship opportunities. During Fiscal Year 
2025, 15,290 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries began training at 
vocational/technical schools and 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries 
began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same time period, 
78,382 individuals began training in undergraduate or graduate degree 
programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
    GI Bill entitlement can also be used to cover the costs of licenses 
and certifications required for certain jobs following completion of 
these educational programs, even if the individual does not pass the 
test. During Fiscal Year 2025, 3,541 Veterans received GI Bill benefits 
for test reimbursement.
    VA can also pay for new employee training in vocational fields 
through approved OJT and registered apprenticeship programs. 
Individuals who qualify receive a monthly payment for living expenses 
that varies based on the GI Bill program used. However, as demonstrated 
by the numbers above, fewer than 20 percent of Veterans this Fiscal 
Year have opted to use their GI bill benefit to pursue a non-degree 
option. VA recognizes that this is in part an awareness issue, and the 
agency will do more to ensure Veterans are informed of all the 
potential uses of the GI bill entitlement and explain how an 
apprenticeship can be a better option because it would equip 
individuals with the skills needed to more quickly secure employment.

The Importance of Partnerships

    One area which continues to expand is our internal and external 
partnerships. This starts with VA identifying high-demand career 
pathways and partnering with organizations that can further the growth 
for the American workforce. In the past, VA partnered with the 
Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics to compile lists of 
high demand occupations for the implementation of the Veterans 
Retraining Assistance Program (VRAP) and the Veterans Rapid Retraining 
Assistance Program (VRRAP). VA will also continue to work with DOL-VETS 
to develop outreach and marketing to employers who may be able to 
expand their workforce through Veteran-focused recruitment. VA would 
seek to reduce employer apprehension of administrative burden by 
providing marketing tools for use in conjunction with their recruiting 
efforts and demonstrating current tools to manage benefits, thereby 
demonstrating how employers can support Veterans using Post 9/11 GI 
Bill apprenticeship and OJT benefits. One example is VA's partnership 
with private companies such as the International Business Machines 
Corporation (IBM) to scale the IBM SkillsBuild program access to 
certifications and training in high-demand industries. This free, 
credentialed online program gives veterans access to information 
technology (IT) skills and builds pathways to meet current 
technological demands in rapidly expanding fields like Data Analytics, 
Cybersecurity, Artificial Intelligence, and Cloud Computing. After 
successful completion, all participants earn IBM-branded digital 
certificates to certify their relevant skills in emerging technologies 
and related proficiencies to prepare them for successful careers in 
technology. Although participation in the IBM SkillsBuild program for 
Fiscal Year 2025 is still underway, we have already seen an increase in 
participants from 12,215 to 14,368 learners to date. Individuals can 
learn more about this program at https://www.va.gov/education/other-va-
education-benefits/ibm-skillsbuild-program/.
    Internally, VA partners with DoD to offer the Warrior Training 
Advancement Course (WARTAC), a national-level VBA training program for 
active-duty Service members seeking employment as VA claims processors. 
VA has successfully trained 2,893 transitioning Veterans through the 
WARTAC program since its inception in 2014, and most graduates remain 
employed with VA today, many of whom have transitioned into leadership 
positions within the organization.
    Other key initiatives aimed at helping Veterans who face employment 
challenges are the Special Employer Incentives and Veteran Employment 
Through Technology Education Courses (VET-TEC) programs, which provide 
job training and experience with little or no risk for employers. 
Through both of these programs, VA maintains partnerships with 
employers such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Department of 
Transportation, Social Security Administration, and many more.

Challenges and Opportunities

    VA acknowledges the Nation's rapidly evolving labor market demands 
a nimble workforce, and Veterans are uniquely equipped to meet many of 
our employers' emerging needs. However, to achieve this and ensure 
Veterans are informed of all their education and training benefits, VA 
must reassess how we communicate.
    Additionally, substantive changes enacted by Congress in its 
reauthorization of the VET TEC program are leading to considerable 
implementation delays, due to the need for multiple system and business 
process changes required to manage entitlement and payments. Given the 
defined opportunity window for VET TEC 2.0, with the program only being 
authorized until September 30, 2027, VA is looking at low-code solution 
options and expects to have a viable solution identified in Quarter 1, 
Fiscal Year 2026.
    Despite the IT delays, VA has made forward progress with other VET 
TEC 2.0 requirements. For example, VA has revised the training provider 
and student applications, updated training provider and expert 
credentials checklists, and drafted training and communications 
documents.
    Another area of concern is our limited engagement with 
transitioning Service members during TAP courses. The 2019 National 
Defense Authorization Act authorizes 1 day for VA to cover health care 
and benefits during the 1 week of TAP. Education, Personalized Career 
Planning and Guidance (PCPG), and VR&E are covered in the curriculum. 
But a single day, which amounts to 6 classroom hours after lunch and 
breaks, is a very condensed time period for Service members to receive 
such a large amount of information. We regularly revise our curriculum 
based on Service member feedback to regularly improve the Service 
member experience within the allotted time.

Conclusion

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, this concludes my 
statement. We would be happy to answer any questions you or other 
Members of the Subcommittee may have.

                    Prepared Statement of Greg Hamm

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


                  Prepared Statement of Gary LaBarbera

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on 
``Strengthening the Workforce of Veterans in America.''. The 
International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 1.3 million 
hardworking people in the United States, Canada, and Puerto Rico, in 
nearly every congressional district, including tens of thousands of 
veterans, currently serving reservists, and military spouses.
    I currently serve as a Business Agent for Teamster Local 282 in New 
York City, as well as the Teamsters Trade Advisor to Helmets to 
Hardhats, working to create employment opportunities for Veterans 
working as Teamsters in the Building and Construction Trades. I retired 
from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023, as Company First Sergeant, 
Company A, 1st Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, following two 
deployments in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and one in support of 
Operation Enduring Freedom.
    My experience is also one of a successful transition from military 
service to civilian employment. Following my first deployment, I 
received my Commercial Drivers License and began driving a truck while 
serving in reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my 
career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy 
construction industry in New York City.
    The most important message I hope to leave the Subcommittee with is 
the value and the promise of a union contract and union career to our 
Nation's veterans--and the ability and dedication of the Teamsters 
union to secure such a career.
    Not only do I come from a union household, but the strong wages, 
working conditions, and opportunities provided by union jobs, and union 
training programs have provided real careers for hundreds of thousands 
of my brothers and sisters leaving the Armed Services.
    The Teamsters have long been heavily engaged in these efforts - 
both creating and operating our own training programs, working in 
conjunction with other labor organizations, and advocating for common-
sense legislative proposals in Congress.

Helmets to Hard Hats

    The Teamsters have long been proud participants in Helmets to 
Hardhats (H2H), a national program that assists veterans, transitioning 
service members, and Guard and Reserve members in finding opportunities 
within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the unionized 
building trades. Since 2003, H2H has connected nearly 55,000 veterans 
to good-paying, stable careers providing solid middle class lives for 
the families of the brave young men and women who served our country.
    H2H collaborates with the 14 major building trades unions under 
North America's Building Trades Unions, nearly 80,000 contractors 
nationwide, the Department of Labor Veterans' Employment and Training 
Service, Hire Our Heroes, the National Guard Association of the United 
States, and the Army Reserve's Public-Private Partnership. These 
partnerships ensure veterans aren't just placed in jobs but launched 
into meaningful careers that value their discipline and leadership.
    While working with Helmets to Hardhats, I have worked with 
countless veterans connecting them to locals, training centers, and 
employers, affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as 
Teamsters in the construction industry. I have also had many 
discussions with our locals and training centers who are committed to 
aiding our Nation's veterans and seek them out while looking to grow 
their workforce.

Commercial Drivers Licensure

    Across the country, Teamsters local unions in 20 states have 
established training trusts or apprenticeship programs to train and 
certify our members and other workers as CDL drivers, as well as 
offering training in hazmat, passenger, school bus and doubles/triples 
endorsements--all at little or even no cost to students. Our programs 
graduate CDL holders who not only have the actual skills needed to be 
safe drivers but also obtain a pathway to employment, and we are proud 
to have trained many veterans through these programs.
    Not only are these programs high-quality, but they serve as an 
important bulwark against predatory CDL programs persist across the 
country. As the Commercial Vehicle Training Association (CVTA) stated 
in a recent letter to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, ``the 
continued presence of non-compliant entities on the TPR [training 
provider registry] allows these bad actors to offer substandard 
training services, resulting in students paying out-of-pocket for 
instruction that does not meet Federal standards. These students are 
often left unable to pass the CDL skills test, obtain employment, or 
operate safely; creating a significant risk to all who share the 
road.'' It benefits no one to generate ``graduates'' who can't pass a 
skill tests or, if they can, are not able to operate safely.
    Regrettably, these programs have been to know to target 
transitioning veterans, taking advantage of both their personal 
resources and resources available through the G.I bill. As discussed 
later, the pervasiveness of these programs necessitates both 
congressional interventions broadly, and specifically in support of 
high-quality programs like those offered by Teamsters locals.

Transition Assistance Program

    The International Brotherhood of Teamsters includes 315 Local 
Unions throughout all 50 States, and represent a vast array of 
industries, we sometimes refer to as workers ``from A to Z, Airline 
Pilots to Zookeepers''. Our nation-wide, multi-industry structure puts 
the Teamsters Union in a strong position to assist those who may be 
entering the workforce for the first time or re-entering the workforce 
after a long absence. Veterans have skills that are in demand and many 
military skills can be parlayed into family sustaining careers as 
Teamsters where a member will earn top wages, superior health insurance 
benefits for his/her family and secure retirement benefits.
    Given the deep breadth of our membership and occupations, we 
believe that there are future opportunities for the Teamsters Union 
would to more closely partner with the Department of Defense Transition 
Assistance Program (DoDTAP) to assist returning service members with 
career assistance as they transition to civilian life, and commit to 
working with any member of the Committee in ensuring that participants 
in TAP have the opportunity to pursue the vast array of careers our 
members work in.

Congressional Priorities

    The Teamsters have been deeply involved in numerous legislative 
efforts intended to strengthen veteran employment pipelines and career 
opportunities in Teamster represented industries. We believe that 
working in conjunction with your Committee, and other committees of 
jurisdiction, we can accomplish critical legislative changes to improve 
the pipeline and increase the availability of good jobs to veterans.

Aircraft Maintenance

    The Teamsters are proud to represent approximately 10,000 aircraft 
mechanics, the majority of whom work for United Airlines. While it has 
long been the case that much of our commercial pilot workforce is made 
of veterans who flew military aircraft, the same is unfortunately not 
the case for individuals who performed military aircraft maintenance - 
in fact less than 10 percent of military aircraft mechanics are able to 
make the transition to civilian commercial service. In part, this gap 
existed because of failure of the Departments of Transportation, 
Defense, and Veteran's Affairs to work cooperatively to address the 
needs of these workers as they transition out.
    This includes failures to educate service members on resources 
which already exist, such as the Joint Service Aviation Maintenance 
Technician Certification Council (JSAMTCC) process, a pathway for 
military members to meet the requirements for an FAA Airframe & 
Powerplant (A&P) mechanic certificate based on their military training 
and experience. It also includes limitations in those programs, such as 
requiring separating services members to participate in duplicative 
testing or qualification which may be unnecessary.
    To close this gap, the Teamsters led efforts during the FAA 
Reauthorization bill to create similar pathways that exist for pilots 
for mechanics, which ultimately included in the enacted legislation.\1\ 
We thank particularly thank Committee Chairman Bost for his advocacy in 
ensuring the provision was included in the bill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Sec. 426. Military aviation maintenance technicians rule
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The provision requires FAA to create new regulation, including 
creating a written competency test for military mechanics to reduce 
testing burden and consider developing an Airman Certification Standard 
to qualify eligible military maintenance technicians for a civilian 
mechanic certificate. The Teamsters are pleased that the FAA has 
already tasked the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee in developing 
these requirements, as well as identifying other actions that can be 
taken to streamline the FAA mechanic certification process for military 
applicants. We call on FAA to complete its tasking and these 
requirements expeditiously.

Supporting High-Quality CDL Training

    While we are proud to run the CDL training programs discussed 
previously, our locals are limited in resources, which has constrained 
our ability to both operate new programs, and expand existing programs. 
To that end, we believe that Congress can play an important role in 
expanding access by increasing competitive grant opportunities for 
high-quality CDL training. Currently, Congress has funded driver 
training though the Commercial Motor Vehicle Operator Safety Training 
(CMVOST) grant program.
    The program is small in scope--in 2024 it awarded a total of $3.5 
million to 27 awardees, and most awards are targeted at advanced safety 
training for previously licensed drivers.\2\ As Congress debates 
surface transportation reauthorization, we strongly support an 
expansion of that program to include significantly higher funding 
levels, and a focus on initial licensure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ https://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Grants/CMVOST.aspx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By doing so, Congress and the Department of Transportation can 
partner with the Teamsters and other quality operators to provide CDL 
training, including to veterans. CMVOST is also a particularly good fit 
for these efforts, as existing law requires that the ``Secretary shall 
award priority to grant applications for programs to train former 
members of the armed force'' \3\, a tasking we are prepared to meet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ 49 U.S. Code Sec.  31103(c)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, we have previously supported common-sense legislation 
which improves the pathway to careers as a commercial driver. The 
Teamsters were proud to endorse the Veteran Improvement Commercial 
Driver License Act, which was signed into law last year, and thank many 
members of the Committee, including Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden and 
Ranking Member Pappas for their sponsorship of the bill. In short, the 
legislation allows veterans to make use of G.I. funds at new CDL 
training schools, provided it is a new campus of an existing program, 
making use of the existing curriculum. This resolved a problem with 
G.I. bill restrictions for new facilities and we were pleased to see it 
become law.
    Similarly, we have previously endorsed the Veterans' Transition to 
Trucking Act, led by Ranking Member Pappas and Representative Kiggans, 
further cosponsored by Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, which would 
allow the VA to streamline the approval of apprenticeship programs in 
the trucking industry.
    In sum, we believe that trucking offers tremendous career 
opportunity for transitioning veterans, and hope to continue to work 
closely with this Subcommittee and Congress to assist veterans in 
finding careers in the industry.

Rail Benefits

    It is also critical that existing statute does not create 
unnecessary barriers or deterrents for veterans to pursue particular 
careers. In the rail industry, workers receive unemployment and 
sickness benefits through the Federal Railroad Retirement Board. 
However, current Federal law excludes railroad workers who are also 
receiving military retirement pay from receiving rail unemployment or 
sickness benefits that they have otherwise earned. This exclusion harms 
veteran rail workers without logical cause and should be addressed - to 
that end we support the enactment of H.R. 10109, the Veteran Benefits 
Enhancement Act, led by Representative Stansbury.

Other Legislation

    The Teamsters are also committed to working with Congress and this 
Subcommittee on legislation to improve pathways to employment for 
veterans which are not inherently specific to the transportation 
industry. We have previously endorsed both the Servicemember 
Apprenticeship Act and the College Opportunities for Servicemembers 
Act, led by Reps. Sherrill and Kiggans, which would expand access to 
Registered Apprenticeship programs that are available to servicemembers 
in the Skillbridge Program, and foster cooperation between colleges and 
the Department of Defense with regards to veterans' entrance into 
Skillbridge programs, respectively.
    We know that numerous members of this Subcommittee and the full 
Committee have also introduced various pieces of legislation on this 
important subject, and we welcome the opportunity to work closely with 
members on advancing proposals which will improve the veteran 
employment pipeline moving forward.

Conclusion

    The Teamsters have been proud to work for decades at various 
initiative to ensure the men and women of the Armed Forces have 
opportunities for good careers, with strong wages and benefits which 
can support them and their families upon transitioning out of the 
service. We fundamentally believe that we, the Nation's strongest labor 
union representing workers in nearly every industry, have a unique and 
critical role to play in this effort. It is our hope that we can 
continue to, and grow, our partnerships with Congress and the Federal 
Government in our effort to achieve these shared goals.

                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Jerome Grant

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the 
Subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to be here today. It's an 
honor to speak with you about something at the core of our work and 
essential to our Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage 
career pathways for America's veterans.
    My name is Jerome Grant, and I serve as CEO of Universal Technical 
Institute, which includes both UTI and Concorde Career Colleges. Across 
our 30+ campuses, we focus entirely on hands-on, career-focused 
education in fields that keep this country running: automotive and 
diesel technology, aviation, welding, electrical and energy trades, and 
on the Concorde side--nursing, dental professions, respiratory therapy, 
surgical technology, and other critical healthcare roles.
    Last year, we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military-
affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our population--they 
are central to our mission. They bring discipline, maturity, problem-
solving, and leadership that elevate every classroom they're in.
    At UTI and Concorde, we've built a support system around them: 
dedicated admissions and financial-aid counselors trained on VA 
benefits, military scholarships, Salute to Service tuition reductions, 
career coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies. Our measure of 
success is straightforward: four out of five of our graduates are 
employed in their field of study within a year. Our success is measured 
across the full employment cycle. We support graduates for life with 
placement assistance and continuing education, because--much like the 
military--they carry our name long after they leave our ranks. And, 
with new campuses opening, that impact will continue to grow.
    One of the most powerful examples of what works is our partnership 
with the Department of Defense through SkillBridge. UTI operates three 
on-base programs--at Fort Bliss, Fort Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of 
more than 3,500 SkillBridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200 
operate on base. Our SkillBridge programs offer free on-base housing 
for service members, Guardsmen, and Reservists coming from other 
installations. It's also open to dependents because we support the 
whole military family, not just the service member. We're honored to be 
among them. We hope to see base command embrace these important 
transition opportunities for service members.
    These programs cost the service member nothing. Over just 12 to 16 
weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel technician training 
that leads to civilian jobs with starting wages at or above $50,000. 
There's no gap between leaving the military and entering the workforce. 
It is immediate, with life-changing impact. And we should be doing more 
of it.
    We also work closely with the USO and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce 
Hiring Our Heroes program to deliver transition workshops, career 
preparation, and direct connections to employers. In every industry we 
serve--whether it's the skilled trades or healthcare--the message from 
employers is the same: We need more talent. And veterans are an ideal 
fit for these ``skilled--collar'' careers that value discipline, 
teamwork, and technical ability.
    We're proud to be recognized as a Military Friendly School and a 
Veteran Friendly Institution, but what truly matters is not the 
designation--it's the outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring veterans 
leave us with strong credentials and stronger careers.
    As for the opportunity to create more visibility into the high 
paying jobs in skilled trades, I could not agree more with what Jim 
Farley the CEO of Ford said a couple of weeks ago. The skills gap in 
the United States is no longer a distant warning--it is a present-day 
crisis. When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technician jobs 
sitting unfilled, it tells us one thing: our country must dramatically 
expand the training pipeline for skilled, technical careers that keep 
America moving and veterans are often well suited to these skilled 
trades jobs.
    At Universal Technical Institute and Concorde Career Colleges, we 
are focused every day on solving this problem. Across our nationwide 
campuses, UTI trains students in automotive, diesel, EV and hybrid 
systems, welding, aviation maintenance, electrical and energy 
technologies--the very roles Ford and the entire transportation and 
mobility sectors urgently need.
    A part of UTI's success is our industry leading partnerships with 
manufacturers which allow us to offer both industry and company-
specific training sought by our employers. We have manufacturer 
specific advanced training programs with Ford, General Motors, Daimler 
Trucks, Communis Engines, and several other incredible manufacturers.
    We are eager to expand our partnerships with leading manufacturers 
to meet this moment. That includes scaling EV and next-generation 
propulsion training, creating more OEM-aligned curriculum, growing 
career pathways, opening additional on-base programs, and working 
together to recruit more veterans, career-changers, and young adults 
into these skilled-collar careers.
    America cannot remain competitive without a strong technical 
workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate, and partner even more 
aggressively to help close the skills gap and ensure employers have the 
talent they need to power the next century of American manufacturing.
    That's why we strongly support the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458, 
led by Congressman Ciscomani and Congressman Davis with the support of 
Chairman Van Orden. This bill is simple, bipartisan, and urgently 
needed. It modernizes the GI Bill to allow veterans to use their 
benefits for accredited hybrid and flexible certificate and diploma 
programs--programs that match the realities of today's workforce.
    This legislation would expand opportunities in fields where demand 
is high, wages are strong, and veterans thrive. It would reduce 
underemployment, strengthen our workforce, and allow more veterans to 
pursue careers in the skilled trades and healthcare--sectors where 
shortages are persistent and nationally significant.
    At a moment when many white-collar entry-level markets are 
tightening, the skilled trades and healthcare fields are wide open. 
Veterans deserve to walk through those open doors. Passing the VETS 
Opportunity Act is one of the most important steps Congress can take to 
ensure veterans have access to the jobs of today and the careers of 
tomorrow.
    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, Members of the 
Subcommittee--thank you for your leadership and for your commitment to 
helping every veteran transition into a meaningful, well-paid civilian 
career. At UTI and Concorde, we are privileged to serve those who have 
served, and we stand ready to work with you to expand opportunity and 
strengthen outcomes for America's veterans.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

                   Prepared Statement of David Bostic

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


                    Prepared Statement of Ying Vang

The Opportunity

      The manufacturing sector is currently experiencing a 
significant workforce shortage. According to the National Association 
of Manufacturers, an estimated 2.1 million manufacturing positions may 
remain unfilled by 2030.

      Cut & sew manufacturing represents a specialized trade 
that, while having considerable barriers to entry, offers comparatively 
lower obstacles for initiation; this field does not necessitate a 4-
year degree, but instead relies on training, discipline, and 
precision--qualities inherent to many veterans.

      Veterans transitioning from military service frequently 
seek roles characterized by hands-on engagement, teamwork, and mission-
oriented environments, attributes commonly found within manufacturing 
settings.

Why Veterans & Manufacturing Align

      Transferable Skills: Veterans bring attention to detail, 
proficiency with complex equipment, and the ability to follow 
procedures under pressure.

      Non-Traditional Pathways: Roles such as sewing, machine 
operation, quality assurance, and logistics can be acquired through 
practical experience, short-term training programs, or apprenticeships.

      Career Progression: Opportunities exist to advance from 
entry-level sewing positions to advanced technical operator roles, 
supervisory capacities, and ultimately plant leadership.

Barriers and Proposed Solutions

      Barrier: Lack of awareness of manufacturing (and 
especially cut & sew) as a high-value career path.

        Solution: Expand and enhance career transition counseling to 
        include pathways into manufacturing. Utilize and strengthen the 
        Department of Labor Registered Apprenticeship Programs (RAPs) 
        designed for veterans, and advocate for expanded funding 
        incentives to encourage employers to hire veterans into 
        apprenticeship roles.

      Barrier: GI Bill constraints regarding coverage for 
short-term, skills-focused training initiatives.

                Solution: Expand eligibility and time for technical 
                certifications and apprenticeships in cut & sew 
                manufacturing. Streamline the conversion of military 
                training into civilian licenses, such as transitioning 
                medics to EMT or paramedic roles, leadership 
                certifications to senior management, and engineers to 
                construction project management certifications. Support 
                the growth and extended eligible length of time with 
                the Department of Defense's Credentialing Opportunities 
                Online (COOL) program.

                Maximize GI Bill benefits through an extended eligible 
                period beyond 2 years, stackable credentials, and rapid 
                upskilling modules. These alternatives offer efficient 
                pathways to employment without requiring traditional 
                degrees.

      Barrier: Training expenses are predominantly borne by 
employers.

        Solution: Provide incentives to employers through training 
        grants, tax credits, and funding targeted explicitly to veteran 
        apprenticeship and work-experience programs.

Stories That Resonate/Case Study: ORC Industries

      Mission: Dedicated to employing individuals with 
disabilities while strengthening America's manufacturing base 
capabilities, including employment opportunities for veterans.

      Cut & Sew Capabilities: Manufactures key defense textile 
products such as Army tarps, Navy ``Dixie Cup'' caps, shelters, and 
more.

      Career Pathways for Veterans: Sewing/machine operators 
receive onsite training regardless of educational background. 
Supervisory, quality assurance, and other indirect roles are promoted 
internally, leveraging both training and leadership abilities. 
Advancement into management or technical fields is further supported 
through ORC's educational benefits.

      Educational Support: ORC provides $3,000 annually in 
tuition reimbursement for technical or associate degrees and $5,000 per 
year for bachelor's degrees.

Takeaway/Conclusion

      Cut & sew manufacturing presents a scalable, non-
traditional career pathway for veterans. Enhanced recognition of 
skilled trades in the US, support for employer-driven training, and 
expanded funding for short-term credentials will empower veterans to 
obtain stable, well-compensated employment without the prerequisite of 
a 4-year degree, while simultaneously helping to address the Nation's 
critical manufacturing workforce deficit.

                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


  Prepared Statement of International Union of Elevator Constructors 
 (IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP),

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the 
Subcommittee: Thank you for the opportunity to share the union skilled 
trades perspective on veteran apprenticeship programs and Post-9/11 GI 
Bill utilization. I am Jason Gray, a proud veteran and the National 
Chairman of the IUEC Veterans Assistance Program. We submit this 
statement on behalf of the International Union of Elevator Constructors 
(IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP), 
in solidarity with other union apprenticeship programs.
    We are concerned that although the Post-9/11 GI Bill was expanded 
in 2011 to cover apprenticeships and on-the-job training, these 
pathways remain underutilized by veterans. Based on DOL VETS data, in 
2024, only 0.31 percent of Post-9/11 GI Bill participants enrolled in 
OJT/APP (On-The-Job/Apprenticeship) programs. These numbers have 
dropped substantially over the last 6 years: in 2024, 140,000 fewer 
apprentices utilized the GI Bill for OJT/APP programs than in 2019. 
This indicates that tens of thousands of veterans are missing out on 
valuable ``earn-and-learn'' career opportunities in the skilled trades.
    We submit this statement of record to explain the issues and 
provide recommendations to improve veteran participation in skilled 
trades apprenticeships.

GI Bill Apprenticeships: A Largely Overlooked Opportunity

    When Congress opened the Post-9/11 GI Bill to apprenticeships in 
2011, it created a powerful tool for veterans. In a registered 
apprenticeship, veterans work as paid apprentices in industries such as 
construction, utilities, and manufacturing while simultaneously 
receiving GI Bill benefits, including tax-free money for books and 
supplies, and a monthly housing allowance during training. Unlike a 
traditional college path, the union apprenticeship model charges no 
tuition - training costs are covered by joint labor-management 
programs, meaning veterans incur no student debt. An apprentice earns 
wages from day one (with regular raises) and often receives 
collectively bargained benefits, such as healthcare and pensions. The 
GI Bill benefits essentially serve as a boost to help cover rent, 
utilities, childcare, and other living expenses for the veteran as they 
advance through a 3-5-year apprenticeship that leads to journeyman 
status, including journeyman wages and benefits.
    In the elevator industry, the IUEC represents about 32,000 elevator 
and escalator mechanics and apprentices in the United States and 
Canada. The IUEC has collective bargaining agreements with 615 
employers in the industry, including large corporations such as Otis, 
KONE, Schindler, and TK Elevator. NEIEP is the apprenticeship program 
run by a joint board of Trustees with equal representation from the 
union and employers. It provides a 5-year, state-of-the-art 
apprenticeship program in over 65 locations across the country, where 
apprentices ``learn as they earn'' from day one, while incurring no 
debt for their education. When apprentices graduate from the program 
and become elevator and escalator mechanics, they join a trade that has 
consistently ranked as the highest-paying blue-collar job in the United 
States. (Forbes.com). And other trades--from plumbers and pipefitters 
to electricians, ironworkers, cement masons, bricklayers, painters, and 
more--offer tens of thousands of similar opportunities.
    Despite these advantages, veteran usage of GI Bill benefits for 
apprenticeships remains very low. The overwhelming majority of eligible 
veterans still choose to use their education benefits for college or 
other schooling. This gap is not due to a lack of ability or interest 
among veterans, but rather a lack of awareness and access. Many 
transitioning service members are simply not informed about 
apprenticeship opportunities during their transition or by VA 
educational counselors.
    The GAO concluded in 2015 that VA needed to improve outreach and 
ease administrative hurdles for the OJT/apprenticeship benefit, and VA 
concurred with all the recommendations. Unfortunately, from our vantage 
point in the skilled trades, this outreach gap persists today--too few 
separating service members ever learn about programs like ours. The 
result is a largely overlooked opportunity: veterans who could thrive 
in high-demand trade careers are missing the chance to use their hard-
earned GI Bill benefits to pursue them. What's more, these industries 
are missing out on attracting qualified, skilled workers to fill a 
critical skilled labor shortage in construction.
    The following recommendations outline how VA and Congress can 
collaborate to achieve these goals, generating positive economic 
impacts for veterans, employers, and communities alike.

Recommendation 1: Leverage Partnerships and Portals to Connect Veterans 
with Apprenticeship Opportunities

    VA should strengthen and expand partnerships with industry-
affiliated programs to improve awareness and access to skilled trades 
apprenticeships for transitioning service members and veterans.
    One existing resource the VA can immediately leverage is Helmets to 
Hardhats (H2H). H2H is a national nonprofit portal that connects 
transitioning service members and veterans to registered apprenticeship 
programs in the construction and building trades. Backed by 15 major 
construction trade unions and contractor associations, H2H serves as a 
comprehensive navigator for veterans into these careers. Since 2003, 
H2H has helped close to 50,000 military members transition into 
civilian construction trades careers. It aggregates over 82,000 
contractors and 1,600 training centers across 65 different crafts on a 
single platform, essentially offering a one-stop shop for veterans to 
explore trade opportunities nationwide. Through H2H, a veteran can 
learn about apprenticeships for electricians, plumbers, carpenters, 
ironworkers, and more, and be directly referred to local union 
apprenticeship training centers. Importantly, H2H also educates 
veterans on how to use their GI Bill stipends during apprenticeship to 
supplement their entry-level wages - helping them financially sustain 
the ``earn while you learn'' period. Given this proven track record, VA 
should formally collaborate with Helmets to Hardhats (and similar 
programs) to amplify its reach.
    For example, VA can integrate H2H into the Transition Assistance 
Program (TAP) curriculum and VA websites, so every separating service 
member learns about this pipeline to the building and construction 
trades. The Department of Labor has already worked to include 
apprenticeship information in TAP classes; a coordinated VA endorsement 
would further validate this route.

Recommendation 2: Remove Barriers and Provide Incentives for 
Apprenticeship Program Participation

    Oftentimes, the red tape surrounding approval of OJT/APP programs 
through State Approving Agencies (SAAs) stands in the way of veterans 
capitalizing on their earned education benefits. Even if a company or 
union has a Registered Apprenticeship Program certified by the 
Department of Labor (or a State apprenticeship agency), they must 
separately apply to their state's SAA for VA approval. This parallel 
process can be redundant and time-consuming. Moreover, if the 
apprenticeship sponsor operates in multiple states, historically, it 
has needed approvals in each State.
    For example, NEIEP currently operates over 65 locations across the 
country. Although each facility uses the same curriculum and 
instructional methods, they must individually apply and reapply to 
SAAs, creating inefficiencies and administrative burdens. The 2017 
VALOR Act made some progress in reducing these burdens by allowing 
multi-state apprenticeship sponsors to work with a single 
``headquarters'' SAA for approval and accelerating multi-state program 
certification. Despite this advancement, unions, which typically do not 
meet the criteria under the VALOR Act, are still at a disadvantage with 
regards to the application process. A thorough review and revision of 
the VALOR Act could simplify approval processes and broaden access to 
union apprenticeships for veterans.
    Ideally, VA, DOL, and SAAs should work together on data-sharing 
systems so that when a program is registered or a veteran enrolls in a 
registered apprenticeship program, the approval for education benefits 
is almost automatic. This collaboration would establish a single, 
unified approval process instead of two separate tracks. If legislative 
changes are necessary, Congress should amend Title 38 to recognize DOL 
registration as fulfilling SAA requirements or further revise the VALOR 
Act to cover all multi-state scenarios.

Recommendation 3: Enhance Financial Support for Veteran Apprentices - 
Especially Housing Allowances

    To attract more transitioning service members into skilled trades 
apprenticeships, we need to ensure that veterans participating in these 
programs receive sufficient financial support, comparable to what they 
would get attending traditional college programs. Specifically, the 
housing allowance for apprentices under the Post-9/11 GI Bill should be 
improved to eliminate disincentives. Currently, a veteran using the GI 
Bill in an apprenticeship or on-the-job training program receives a 
Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) that begins at the same rate as a full-
time student's allowance but then decreases by 20 percent every 6 
months of training. This means that as a veteran advances and 
presumably gains more skills (and possibly increases family 
obligations), their VA housing support significantly declines. In one 
analysis, after 2 years, a veteran apprentice only receives 20 percent 
of their original allotment, turning what was once a robust living 
allowance into a small sum that barely covers groceries.'' Conversely, 
a veteran attending a university continues to receive their full 
housing stipend throughout their entire education. The financial 
disparity can be striking. For example, in Fiscal Year 2025, both the 
University of Connecticut (UConn) and IUEC Local 91 (Connecticut) will 
have a Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) of $2,646. Over 4 years, an in-
state UConn student would receive about $95,000 in MHA, along with 
$20,366 in tuition coverage per year--totaling roughly $175,000 in 
benefits. In comparison, a veteran in the IUEC/NEIEP apprenticeship in 
Connecticut would receive just over $57,000 in total MHA, a difference 
of approximately $118,000. This stark disparity discourages many 
veterans from choosing OJT/APP pathways.
    Congress should take action to level the playing field by offering 
full housing allowance support throughout a veteran's apprenticeship 
training. H.R. 982 - The Warrior to Workforce Act, sponsored by Rep. 
Van Orden, is a positive step. We strongly endorse this bill, but it 
should be viewed as the start of broader efforts to close the GI Bill 
value gap for veterans in OJT/APP programs. Removing the stepped-down 
reduction would ensure fair housing aid for OJT learners, as experts 
recommend. This change would make apprenticeships far more financially 
appealing. Allowing veterans to fully use their GI Bill for living 
expenses during apprenticeships will support their families' financial 
stability and enable them to focus on learning their trade. It also 
clearly shows that trades are valued equally with college education. 
There's no reason a veteran who, for example, wants to become an 
elevator mechanic or HVAC technician, should have to forfeit thousands 
of dollars in benefits compared to peers attending college. By aligning 
the housing allowance policy, Congress and VA would eliminate a major 
disincentive that currently discourages some veterans from pursuing 
apprenticeships.

Key Steps Moving Forward

    By supporting organizations like Helmets to Hardhats, veterans are 
more likely to find careers in labor organizations. Simplifying the 
process for GI Bill approval allows these organizations to enroll 
veterans quickly, enabling them to receive their earned education 
benefits. Continuing efforts to close the gap in the use of education 
benefits for OJT/APP programs and traditional universities will 
encourage more veterans to pursue careers in labor and strengthen the 
veteran workforce in America. We urge the Committee to review the 
benefits structure to ensure fair access for all eligible veterans, 
whether they choose a university or an apprenticeship path. In support 
of that goal, we respectfully submit these recommendations.

                     Prepared Statement of 50strong

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


               Prepared Statement of Helmets to Hardhats

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


 Prepared Statement of National Association of State Approving Agencies

Introduction

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas and members of the 
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, on behalf of the fifty-three-
member State agencies of the National Association of State Approving 
Agencies (NASAA) and their over 220 staff members, thank you for the 
opportunity to provide comments on strengthening the workforce of 
American veterans.
    State approving agencies are State approving agencies responsible 
for approving standard college degrees, preparatory courses, residency 
courses, license and certification exams, non-college degree (NCD), 
apprenticeship (APP), and on-the-job training (OJT) programs for the GI 
Bill. As such, we review programs to ensure they align with our mission 
and provide high-quality instruction and training that prepares 
veterans and their beneficiaries for lucrative careers as they make 
their transition from the military to civilian life. As pointed out by 
Chairman Van Orden, we are concerned that APP and OJT programs now 
account for less that 1 percent of the veterans using the GI Bill, a 
continual decline over the last decade due to a lack of awareness and 
little incentive to utilize this benefit to pursue workforce training. 
For example, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) reports that 
during Fiscal Year 2025, only 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries 
began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same period, 78,382 
individuals began receiving the same benefit while enrolled in 
undergraduate or graduate degree programs. We believe that the 
underutilization of this important benefit is partially due to lack of 
veteran awareness. Furthermore, VA admits that this benefit has been 
inadequately promoted and more should be done to ensure veterans are 
informed of all the potential uses of their GI Bill entitlement. It is 
important that the value of an apprenticeship and how it can equip 
individuals with the skills needed to quickly enter the workforce be 
properly explained.
    Veterans that enroll in an APP or OJT can effectively use their 
benefit to transition more quickly into the civilian workforce while 
for themselves and their families. For this reason, we strongly support 
H.R. 982, the Warriors to Workforce Act of 2025, introduced by Chairman 
Derrick Van Orden in February of this year. This important legislation 
would increase the benefits that veterans receive during their first 
year of an apprenticeship by changing the law so that after 6 months of 
training, the amount of benefit veterans receive will increase to 90 
percent as opposed to the current 80 percent prescribed by law. This 
increase will provide a needed incentive for veterans to use this 
program, while enhancing the likelihood that they will persist in their 
training, enter the workforce, and support their families. The sooner 
veterans identify a career path and training program that aligns with 
their goals, their chance for successful transition to civilian life 
increases significantly.
    Over the past several decades, Congress has greatly increased the 
financial incentives for veterans to seek a college degree, but little 
has been done for veterans who seek practical on-the-job training 
rather than a college degree. While in the military, many 
servicemembers work in occupations that are more hands-on and can 
utilize these transferable skills that are greatly needed in the 
civilian workforce. With this increase in their APP/OJT benefit, 
veterans could be better incentivized to join the workforce 
immediately, thereby securing gainful employment, becoming a tax paying 
citizen and contributing to their local communities and families.
    NASAA also strongly supports H.R. 1458, the Veterans Education and 
Technical Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, which expands access to high-
quality, high-demand skilled trade and technical training programs for 
those who served. Introduced by Rep. Juan Ciscomani earlier this year, 
this legislation ensures that GI Bill benefits can be used for in-
person and hybrid skilled-trade programs offered at accredited 
institutions approved by State Approving Agencies. By requiring 
regular, substantive interaction between students and instructors, this 
bill protects the integrity of VA education benefits as students are 
prepared for employment in high-skill technical fields. As Rep. 
Ciscomani noted, this commonsense reform will expand the benefits that 
veterans earned to cover the costs of high-skilled training programs 
and allow veterans to receive training to address nationwide shortages 
in trades like welding, pipe fitting, HVAC, and advanced manufacturing 
fields. Similarly to H.R. 982, this bill can help to encourage more 
veterans to seek training in high demand occupations and provide 
pathways to successful careers in today's workforce. These bills better 
align training and education with employer demand while upholding 
quality standards and allowing veterans to use their transferable 
skills to pursue vocational and technical careers and contribute to the 
rebuilding of our Nation's infrastructure.
    Finally, NASAA is concerned with some provisions of H.R. 2954, the 
Veterans' Transition to Trucking Act of 2025. While we agree with the 
noble intention of this legislation to address a shortage of drivers in 
our Nation, we have reservations about the fact that this legislation 
removes State Approving Agency (SAA) oversight of trucking programs, an 
important protection for veterans and their families. Legislation 
currently exists that provides for the approval of national 
apprenticeship programs without removing SAA protections such as 
ensuring only high-quality programs are approved. SAAs have dedicated 
staff in each State to provide compliance oversight and training to 
approved truck driving schools, whereas the VA may face challenges 
conducting thorough inspections at these institutions. NASAA welcomes 
the opportunity to work with the sponsors of this legislation to 
address these concerns and ensure that veterans can more quickly and 
efficiently use their earned education benefits to enter high-quality 
training programs--no matter where they live or relocate to, without 
the loss of the protections which SAA approval and oversight can 
provide for them.

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, NASAA has 
not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 2025, nor has it 
received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

NASAA has not received payments or contracts from any foreign 
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.

 Prepared Statement of National Association of Electrical Distributors 
                                 (NAED)

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


       Prepared Statement of University of Health and Performance

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished 
members of the Subcommittee:

    Thank you for the opportunity to submit written testimony for the 
record on behalf of the University of Health and Performance (UHP). My 
name is Matt Hesse, and I am the CEO of UHP, a vocational school 
located in Gentry, Arkansas. Our institution is dedicated exclusively 
to empowering former servicemembers as they transition to civilian 
life, providing them with the skills, certifications, and community 
support needed to thrive in high-demand, non-traditional industries. I 
appreciate the Subcommittee's focus on exploring alternative career 
pathways for veterans beyond the traditional 4-year degree, and I am 
eager to share how UHP's innovative model contributes to strengthening 
America's veteran workforce and boosting our economy.
    UHP was founded with a singular mission: to serve those who have 
served our Nation. We focus exclusively on former servicemembers, 
creating a tailored educational environment that honors their unique 
experiences and needs. Unlike conventional programs, UHP replicates the 
structure and intensity of active military training to ease the 
transition out of service. Our programs prepare veterans for missions 
in civilian life, emphasizing short-duration, high-intensity coursework 
in areas such as personal training, integrative health coaching, and 
culinary nutrition. This compressed, immersive approach allows students 
to complete their training in just 18 days--or 140 hours--compared to 
the months or years required in traditional 4-year degree programs or 
even standard semester-based vocational schools. By condensing the 
timeline without sacrificing quality, we enable veterans to quickly 
enter the workforce, often within weeks of separation from service, 
addressing the critical first-year post-separation period when many 
utilize their GI Bill benefits.
    What sets UHP apart is our veteran-centric model, which not only 
delivers practical skills but also fosters fellowship and wellness 
through a community of peers. Veterans train alongside other veterans 
in a supportive, familiar environment that cultivates the values they 
adopted during their time in service--discipline, resilience, and 
camaraderie. This shared experience promotes mental and physical 
wellness, helping participants rebuild confidence and purpose. Our 
dedicated staff, many of whom are veterans themselves, serve as 
positive role models, creating a space where students can sustain and 
build upon the productive habits honed in the military. The result is 
not just skill acquisition, but holistic personal growth, as veterans 
find renewed motivation and a sense of belonging that traditional 
educational settings often fail to provide.
    Our success metrics demonstrate the effectiveness of this approach. 
Based on survey data from our graduates:

      91 percent are employed following completion of the 
program.

      35 percent work directly in the health and fitness 
fields.

      37 percent report an increase in income after graduating, 
with 93 percent passing accreditation exams on their first attempt.

      98 percent describe the program as ``effective and 
valuable.''

      78 percent apply UHP's core framework--``Think, Train, 
Feel, and Lead''--in their daily lives.

      98 percent have referred or would refer a friend to UHP.

    These outcomes highlight how UHP equips veterans with marketable 
certifications and real-world readiness, leading to meaningful careers 
in high-paying industries that align with their strengths.
    In conclusion, programs like UHP are vital for expanding non-
traditional educational opportunities. UHP exemplifies how targeted, 
accelerated training can empower veterans to build prosperous civilian 
careers, strengthen our economy, and enhance their overall well-being 
through community and purpose. I urge the Subcommittee to support 
policies that promote these alternative pathways, ensuring more 
veterans can access the opportunities they deserve.
    Thank you for your time and commitment to our Nation's heroes.

                                 

             Prepared Statement of Wounded Warrior Project

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the 
Subcommittee - thank you for the opportunity to share Wounded Warrior 
Project's (WWP) perspective on opportunities to improve employment 
pathways for veterans. We appreciate the Subcommittee's leadership in 
examining how military-to-civilian transition, education, and 
employment programs can better support veterans pursuing non-
traditional, skills-based professions.
    Supporting long-term financial independence has been an enduring 
component of WWP's mission to honor and empower wounded warriors. 
Beyond the services WWP offers to support veterans' mental and physical 
well-being, our Warriors to Work program provides high-touch, career 
coaching services to warriors and family support members to prepare 
them for employment and enhance their overall financial wellness. In 
Fiscal Year 2025, we provided over 62,000 services to help over 1,200 
warriors and family members achieve employment. Our national service 
officers and partnership network extend our impact even further - all 
free of cost to those we serve. Collectively, our engagements with 
warriors across the country have shaped our perspective on how the 
community is meeting veterans' employment needs, including for those 
pursuing high-skilled vocations and apprenticeships.
    The modern labor market increasingly rewards skills, credentials, 
apprenticeships, and hands-on training. According to the Bureau of 
Labor Statistics, nearly 60 percent of new jobs created between 2020 
and 2030 will be in occupations that do not require a college 
degree.\1\ Many of the fastest-growing, best-paying jobs, such as wind 
turbine technicians, solar installers, industrial machinery mechanics, 
commercial pilots, and community health workers, are built on 
apprenticeships, on-the-job training (OJT), or short-term credentials 
rather than 4-year degrees.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STAT., CAREER OUTLOOK: FAST-GROWING 
OCCUPATIONS THAT PAY WELL AND DON'T REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE (June 
2022), available at https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/article/
occupations-that-dont-require-a-degree.htm.
    \2\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite these trends, many of the Federal systems designed to 
prepare veterans transitioning to civilian life remain oriented toward 
a ``college-first'' model. Commitments to higher education at the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) can and should continue; however, 
to keep pace with labor-market realities, Congress can help set new 
strategies to optimize veterans' chances of finding successful and 
fulfilling careers after military service. We believe that meaningful 
progress can be made by reversing underutilization trends for OJT and 
apprenticeships; creating more consistency in VA's Veteran Readiness & 
Employment (VR&E) program; and embracing innovation in connecting 
veterans to jobs in emerging fields.

Underutilization of OJT and Apprenticeships

    Veterans have several avenues to pursue non-traditional careers, 
but current outcomes and observations suggest that existing structures 
are funneling fewer individuals toward these opportunities than might 
be expected. Across the past five fiscal years (FY2020-FY2024), 
participation in GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs has remained 
strikingly low, averaging only 1,700-2,300 veterans per year, 
representing well under one-half of 1 percent of all GI Bill users in 
any year.\3\ In Fiscal Year 2024, those figures broke down to 
approximately 776 apprenticeships and 1,008 OJT participants under the 
Post-9/11 GI Bill, versus 454,179 veterans and Service members using 
the GI Bill in that fiscal year.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS 
REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. 
BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2023 154 (2024); 
U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT 
FISCAL YEAR 2022 154 (2023); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS 
ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2021 150 (2022); U.S. DEP'T 
OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 
2020 151 (2021).
    \4\  U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL 
BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These results may be explained by how responsible Federal agencies 
coordinate their efforts. The Department of Defense (DoD) oversees the 
Transition Assistance Program (TAP), a multi-day event attended by 
Service members as a part of their out-processing from the military 
that includes several briefings, including Department of Labor (DOL) 
workshops, Small Business Administration information on 
entrepreneurship, Office of Personnel Management Federal employment 
information, and a VA-led seminar on VA benefits.\5\ While these three 
programs aim to support transitioning veterans and their families, 
these programs lack interoperability and consistent communication, 
often leaving veterans and their families alone to piece together 
fragmented resources across three separate cabinet-level agencies. 
Further, RAND and Government Accountability Office (GAO) have both 
noted a commonality among these programs - that they have historically 
emphasized college enrollment over helping veterans translate military 
skills into civilian jobs or apprenticeships. \6\, \7\ RAND 
also found that more than 95 percent of Federal transition program 
funding goes to education-related programs, while very few resources 
support direct employment or vocational pathways.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Transition Assistance Program, U.S. Department of Labor https:/
/www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/tap.
    \6\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-16-51, VA BENEFITS: 
INCREASING OUTREACH AND MEASURING OUTCOMES WOULD IMPROVE POST-9/11 GI 
BILL ON-THE-JOB TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS 2 (2015).
    \7\  Meredith Kleykamp et al., RAND, FEDERAL PROGRAMS TO ASSIST 
MILITARY-TO-CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT TRANSITIONS LIMITED SCRUTINY AND 
SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN EDUCATION PROGRAMS 51 (2024), available at 
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1363-12.html.
    \8\  Id. at 55.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Fortunately, improvements are underway. TAP has undergone reforms 
and now includes a standardized curriculum. DoD provides optional in-
depth workshops to prepare Service members for civilian employment 
through advanced job search strategies and networking (Employment 
Track) and to guide them in exploring technical careers and obtaining 
necessary certifications (Vocational Track). DOL VETS administers three 
employment-focused workshops worldwide. The Employment Fundamentals of 
Career Transition (EFCT) is a mandatory, 1-day course that provides all 
transitioning Service members with foundational employment preparation, 
including labor-market awareness, transferable skills identification, 
and basic resume concepts. After completing EFCT, Service members may 
participate in optional 2-day workshops. The Department of Labor 
Employment Workshop (DOLEW) offers in-depth instruction on resume 
development, interviewing, and networking. The Career and Credential 
Exploration (C2E) track uses structured assessments to guide 
participants toward vocational pathways, apprenticeships, and industry-
recognized credentials. All three workshops are delivered by DOL VETS 
facilitators through in-person, virtual, and online learning formats. 
These modules constitute the employment and skills-development 
components of TAP and are intended to support Service members in 
meeting DoD's Career Readiness Standards. EFCT is typically delivered 
early in the TAP sequence, immediately after initial counseling and 
DoD's ``Transition Day.'' DOLEW and C2E are scheduled later based on 
the Service member's tier level and Individual Transition Plan.
    While these programs provide high level links to information on GI 
Bill OJT/apprenticeships, non-degree training, and licensure/
certification reimbursement, they do not go deeply into navigation of 
these benefits, nor do they cover programs such as Compensated Work 
Therapy (CWT), Individual Placement and Support (IPS), or VetSuccess on 
Campus counseling. Anecdotal evidence from WWP's Warriors to Work 
program indicates that many warriors are unaware of the available 
benefits - which in this context may include VR&E services, GI Bill 
OJT/apprenticeships and non-degree training, licensure/certification 
reimbursements, VetSuccess on Campus counseling, CWT and supported 
employment programs, and TAP-related career services - and do not learn 
that these benefits exist until years after separation. This concern 
was underscored in a Government Accountability Office (GAO) 2015 
report, which found that VA's mandatory TAP benefits briefings heavily 
emphasized degree programs while offering limited practical guidance on 
apprenticeships or OJT.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ GAO-16-51 at 2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    VA has since implemented GAO's recommendations by expanding OJT and 
apprenticeship content in TAP (a separate offering from DoD's Career 
and Credential Exploration track); publishing an employer guide on DoD 
and Department of Labor - VETS webpages; allowing electronic submission 
of employer monthly certifications confirming the veteran's 
participation; and, as of August 2020, modifying its data system so it 
can track how many veterans complete their OJT or apprenticeship 
experience.\10\ Despite this progress, many veterans continue to have 
an incomplete picture of the opportunities available to them due, in 
part, to inconsistent counseling and limited real-time information 
presented during TAP about non-degree employment routes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ Id. at 22-23.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To improve outcomes, DoD's TAP transition counselors should ensure 
they are guiding veterans to options that match their goals, disability 
profiles, family circumstances, and local workforce needs, especially 
when a skills-based pathway would be more appropriate than a degree 
program.\11\ Even if warriors are aware of these nontraditional 
avenues, a 2023 GAO report explained that some institutions (with 
nontraditional training such as outdoor recreation certificate 
programs) are unable to accept GI Bill funding because they are 
concerned about the administrative burden pursuing GI Bill approval may 
create.\12\ Thus, multiple factors are operating to move veterans away 
from pursuing tracks to high-skilled apprenticeships and vocational 
trades. While VA has tools that can help veterans explore and pursue 
those options, many service-connected disabled veterans remain unaware 
about VR&E and specifically the other program features that the GI Bill 
does not offer, including special equipment to help them mitigate or 
overcome the effects of their disability, such as mobility aids and 
voice recognition software.\13\ Moreover, approval processes are slow, 
guidance is inconsistent, and modern credential programs often fall 
outside VA GI Bill eligibility rules even when employer demand is 
strong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ Id. at 21.
    \12\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-23-106149, VETERANS 
EMPLOYMENT: GI BILL BENEFITS CAN HELP LEAD TO OUTDOOR RECREATION 
CAREERS 9 (2023).
    \13\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-21-450, VA COULD BETTER 
INFORM VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES ABOUT THEIR EDUCATION BENEFIT OPTIONS 
8 (2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In conclusion, veterans cannot take advantage of pathways they do 
not know exist, are unsure how to access, or are pushed toward programs 
that are not the right fit or do not lead to viable careers. To improve 
use of apprenticeships, OJT, and other non-degree routes, DoD, DOL, and 
VA could modernize their outreach, strengthen TAP counseling, and 
ensure veterans receive clear, reliable information long after 
separation. Doing so will allow more warriors to pursue employment 
options that match their skills, health needs, and family realities.

Inconsistencies with Veteran Readiness & Employment

    Among VA's most notable occupational training programs, VR&E 
provides job training, employment, resume development, and job-seeking 
skills coaching for veterans whose service-connected disabilities make 
it hard to prepare for, obtain, or maintain employment. A meaningful 
number of WWP warriors - one in five (21.1 percent) - have used, or are 
using, the VR&E program according to 2023 Warrior Survey data. VR&E's 
recent challenges with high counselor-to-veteran ratios and geographic 
wait time disparities are becoming more pronounced, but there are other 
issues which deserve attention.
    While VR&E has great potential to help veterans, inconsistent VA 
VR&E counselor guidance and decision-making can materially shape 
veterans' long-term employment outcomes. Highly variable experiences 
with VR&E counselors - ranging from those who fully support OJT/
apprenticeships to others who strongly steer toward degree programs - 
lead to structural barriers and unequal access to the full range of 
employment opportunities veterans are entitled to consider. In 2019, 
GAO found inconsistent decision-making among counselors where veterans 
with similar disabilities, experiences, and goals may receive entirely 
different training plans based solely on individual counselor 
discretion.\14\ Labor-market data is not incorporated consistently, 
which can result in veterans being guided toward degree programs even 
when apprenticeships or OJT would better align with regional workforce 
needs as well as the veteran's own strengths.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-20-28, VA VOCATIONAL 
REHABILITATION AND EMPLOYMENT: ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENT COULD ENHANCE 
CONSISTENCY AMONG COUNSELORS 7 (2019).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GAO also found that VR&E lacked a mechanism to assess whether 
counselors were applying common planning factors consistently, raising 
concerns about unequal treatment of similarly situated veterans who may 
be denied benefits in a non-standard and arbitrary manner. VA 
subsequently conducted a counselor consistency study in early 2020 and 
provided targeted refresher training later that year, leading GAO to 
close its recommendation as implemented.\15\ Even so, VR&E still does 
not measure or publish outcomes by training track, making it difficult 
to evaluate whether degree, OJT, credential, or apprenticeship channels 
produce the strongest long-term results. Without transparent outcomes 
across training types, veterans cannot make fully informed choices, and 
Congress cannot effectively oversee and evaluate the programs it funds. 
Even employers who are deeply committed to hiring veterans tell us the 
process to participate in VA-supported OJT/apprenticeships is 
confusing, administratively burdensome, and unpredictable. Small and 
mid-sized employers frequently cite administrative burdens and 
consistently lack the human resource capacity to navigate VA paperwork, 
limiting the number of veterans who can access these options.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ Id. at 13.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The impact of the VA VR&E inconsistencies is even more pronounced 
for warriors with the highest support needs. WWP's Independence Program 
participants, many of whom live with severe physical, cognitive, or 
psychological injuries, face unique barriers in traditional classroom 
environments. Yet structured employment, supported apprenticeships, and 
individualized technical training models have shown strong promise when 
paired with coaching, memory supports, workplace accommodations, and 
employer education regarding invisible injuries. These models can open 
channels to independence for warriors who might otherwise be excluded 
from the workforce, yet they remain difficult to access through current 
VA programs.
    Current VR&E eligibility rules are also limiting the program's 
potential for improving the lives of veterans who are seeking to return 
to work as their disability picture changes. Under current law, 
veterans who left the military prior to January 1, 2013, must apply for 
VR&E benefits within 12 years of separation (38 U.S.C. Sec.  3103), 
which means every Post-9/11 veteran who got out prior to this date has 
now passed that window of eligibility.\16\ For many wounded, ill, and 
injured veterans, this window may have closed just as they reached the 
point of stability needed to pursue retraining.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ 38 C.F.R. Sec.  21.41.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Veterans registering for WWP services do so on average 9 years 
after discharge, and nearly half of veterans responding to our most 
recent Warrior Survey report chronic physical or mental health 
conditions that worsen over time. GAO and VA longitudinal data 
similarly indicate that veterans with traumatic brain injury, post-
traumatic stress disorder, chronic pain, and other complex conditions 
often delay pursuing education or employment services until well beyond 
the 10-year mark due to extended treatment cycles and fluctuating 
symptoms.\17\ As a result, many veterans become ready for 
apprenticeships, OJT, or industry credentials only after their VR&E 
eligibility has expired.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ See, e.g., U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., POST-SEPARATION TRANSITION 
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OUTCOME STUDY: 2021 LONGITUDINAL SURVEY REPORT 
(2022).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Eliminating the delimiting eligibility date would ensure veterans 
can access training when they are medically and functionally prepared 
to benefit from it, rather than losing eligibility because recovery 
took longer than the statute anticipates. To bring parity across all 
generations of service, we believe that the 12-year delimiting date 
should be removed for all veterans. VA already has the authority to 
waive the 12-year rule on a case-by-case basis if the veteran is 
determined to have a ``serious employment handicap.'' However, the 
standards used to make that determination are not clear and, without 
specific guidance to follow, a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor 
(VRC) is left to make a subjective decision whether to grant the 
veteran eligibility to the program. Wider and more predictable 
participation should be the goal.
    Wounded Warrior Project is grateful for legislative progress 
already being made on several of these issues. We are proud to support 
Representative Hamadeh's bill, H.R. 1793, the Veterans Readiness and 
Employment Transparency Act, which would improve outreach by requiring 
informational sessions, and enhancing reporting measures to ensure 
better veteran outcomes. Furthermore, we thank this Committee and bill 
sponsor Representative Ciscomani for advancing H.R. 3579, the Veterans 
Readiness and Employment Program Integrity Act out of the House of 
Representatives this year; this bill seeks to impose limits to protect 
VR&E counselor workloads and to require the publication of current wait 
times sorted by regional office. We are hopeful that both pieces of 
legislation are signed into law during this 119th Congress.

Innovative Approaches as Gateways to Employment

    Innovative approaches to employment include short-term, industry-
recognized credentials that open doors to high-growth careers without 
requiring a traditional degree. Entry-level information technology and 
cybersecurity roles increasingly rely on certifications such as the 
Computing Technology Industry Association (CompTIA) Information 
Technology Fundamentals (ITF+), CompTIA A+, or CompTIA Network+, rather 
than two-or 4-year programs. Skilled trades and infrastructure 
employers prioritize Occupational Safety and Health Administration 
(OSHA)-10, OSHA-30, and National Center for Construction Education and 
Research (NCCER) Core credentials to demonstrate safety and job 
readiness. Cloud computing pathways, one of the fastest-growing sectors 
in the economy, often begin with the Amazon Web Services (AWS) Cloud 
Practitioner certification. Process-improvement roles across 
healthcare, logistics, and government frequently accept Lean Six Sigma 
Yellow Belt, while emergency response and healthcare careers open 
through short-term credentials such as Emergency Medical Technician-
Basic (EMT-Basic). These programs can be completed in weeks, not years, 
yet lead to stable, well-paid careers, reinforcing that many of today's 
strongest labor-market opportunities are built on skills and 
credentials rather than traditional degrees.
    As we work to ensure VA's education and employment systems reflect 
the opportunities available in today's labor market, we must ensure 
more veterans are entering high-growth, skills-based occupations; have 
shorter periods between separation and stable employment; improve 
outcomes for historically underserved populations; and have clear, 
reliable data demonstrating that non-degree channels can produce wages 
and career progression comparable to or greater than those achieved 
through traditional degrees.
    One example of how innovative, non-traditional training models can 
meet these needs in the field is Wounded Warrior Project's Drone 
Certification initiative, which demonstrates how innovative, non-
traditional career avenues can support veterans' whole health while 
opening doors to meaningful employment. Through WWP's new Drone 
Initiative, warriors receive hands-on, employer-aligned training that 
prepares them for FAA Part 107 commercial drone certification, an 
accessible credential that does not require prior drone experience or a 
traditional college degree. This model directly addresses several of 
the most persistent barriers veterans face in the civilian workforce, 
including difficulty translating military skills, limited exposure to 
emerging technical fields, and uncertainty navigating nontraditional 
career ladders. By embedding this program within Warriors to Work, WWP 
ensures veterans receive not only skills-based training but also career 
counseling, resume writing support, and a bridge to employment 
opportunities in sectors such as construction, infrastructure 
inspection, public safety, agriculture, and environmental mapping.
    Most importantly, the program's impact extends beyond career 
readiness to veterans' mental, emotional, and physical well-being. 
Drone operations promote focus, reduce stress, encourage outdoor 
activity, and stimulate cognitive engagement - benefits comparable to 
mindfulness practices and rehabilitative therapy. The WWP Warrior 
Survey found that warriors report renewed confidence, restored purpose, 
and meaningful social connection through team-based instruction and 
peer engagement. The program is also highly adaptable for veterans with 
physical injuries or mobility limitations, allowing them to develop 
technical expertise, contribute to mission-driven work such as disaster 
response or search-and-rescue, and retain a sense of service and 
identity. In short, WWP's Drove Initiative is more than a skills 
program - it is a holistic model that strengthens wellness, reduces 
barriers to employment, and empowers veterans to succeed in rapidly 
growing, nontraditional industries.
    In conclusion, innovative, skills-based pathways like drone 
certification illustrate why VA's education and employment systems must 
be flexible enough to meet veterans where they are, aligning training 
choices with each veteran's goals, disability profile, family 
circumstances, and the workforce needs of their local community. By 
modernizing these systems to recognize short-term credentials, 
employer-aligned training, and holistic supports, we can ensure more 
veterans access meaningful careers that honor their service and sustain 
long-term well-being.

Concluding Remarks

    Wounded Warrior Project stands ready to support the Economic 
Opportunity Subcommittee's efforts and to work alongside VA, DoD, DOL, 
employers, and our fellow veteran service organizations (VSO) to ensure 
every warrior can pursue the training pathway that best fits their 
goals and circumstances. Veterans bring extraordinary potential to 
America's workforce, and our systems must help unlock it. Thank you for 
the opportunity to submit this statement for the record. We look 
forward to working with you to help improve employment outcomes for 
veterans.

               Prepared Statement of The American Legion

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 


                                 [all]