    [House Hearing, 119 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                          STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE
                             OF VETERANS IN AMERICA

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC
                                  OPPORTUNITY

                                     of the

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION
                                   __________

                           TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025
                                   __________

                               Serial No. 119-36
                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

                    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                        Available via http://govinfo.gov
                                    ______

                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    62-606                    WASHINGTON : 2026

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

    AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
      American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
    JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
    NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
    MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
    GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina      Florida
    DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
    MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
    JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
    KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
    JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
    ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
    KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
      Mariana Islands
    TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                           Jon Clark, Staff Director
                      Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                     DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

    JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire,
    ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                   Ranking Member
    KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
      Mariana Islands                    DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
    TOM BARRETT, Michigan                TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York

    Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
    hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
    published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
    official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
    both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
    of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
    unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
    current publication process and should diminish as the process is
    further refined.

                            C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025

                                                                       Page

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................     1
    The Honorable Chris Pappas, Ranking Member.......................     3

                                   WITNESSES

                                    Panel I

    Mr. Kenneth Smith, Executive Director at Education Service,
      Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans
      Affairs........................................................     5

            Accompanied by:

        Ms. Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive Director at Veterans
            Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits
            Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

                                    Panel II

    Mr. Greg Hamm, Vice President of Field and Government Recruiting,
      Werner Enterprise, On behalf of the American Trucking
      Associations...................................................    20

    Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr., Teamsters Local 282 Business Agent,
      Helmets to Hardhats Teamsters Trade Advisor, First Sergeant
      USMC, Ret......................................................    21

    Mr. Jerome A. Grant, Chief Executive Officer, Universal Technical
      Institute Inc..................................................    23

    Mr. David Bostic, Service Development Manager, Aftermarket &
      Customer Support for Region 4, Deere & Company.................    25

    Mr. Ying Vang, Human Resources Manager, ORC Industries...........    27

                                    APPENDIX

                        Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

    Mr. Kenneth Smith Prepared Statement.............................    41
    Mr. Greg Hamm Prepared Statement.................................    44
    Mr. Gary LaBarbera Jr. Prepared Statement........................    50
    Mr. Jerome A. Grant Prepared Statement...........................    53
    Mr. David Bostic Prepared Statement..............................    55
    Mr. Ying Vang Prepared Statement.................................    59

                           Statements For The Record

    International Union of Elevator Constructors (IUEC) and the
      National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP) Prepared
      Statement......................................................    61
    50strong Prepared Statement......................................    64
    Helmets to Hardhats Prepared Statement...........................    82
    National Association of State Approving Agencies Prepared
      Statement......................................................    84
    National Association of Electrical Distributors (NAED) Prepared
      Statement......................................................    86
    University of Health and Performance Prepared Statement..........    88

                              APPENDIX--continued

    Wounded Warrior Project Prepared Statement.......................    88
    The American Legion Prepared Statement...........................    94

                          STRENGTHENING THE WORKFORCE
                             OF VETERANS IN AMERICA

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, DECEMBER 2, 2025

          Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
                        Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                 U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in
    room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden
    (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
        Present: Representatives Van Orden, Ciscomani, King-Hinds,
    Barrett, Pappas, McGarvey, Ramirez, and Kennedy.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN

        Mr. Van Orden. Good morning. The subcommittee will come to
    order. The chair may declare a recess at any time in case we
    have to run across the street.
        Before I begin, I want to take a moment of silence to
    recognize Sergeant Andrew Wolfe, who is currently recovering,
    and Specialist Sarah Beckstrom, who was murdered by a terrorist
    that came here from Afghanistan. Her sacrifice and his struggle
    will not be forgotten. Please join me in a moment of silence.
        [Moment of silence.]
        Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. I want to thank our witnesses for
    being here today to discuss ways to strengthen America's
    workforce with one of the best populations of Americans. Those
    are veterans. They know where to be, when to be, and what
    uniform to be in, and they are not on drugs.
        The purpose of today's hearing is to examine how the U.S.
    Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) provides opportunities for
    veterans to explore nontraditional education, whether that be
    through apprenticeship, on-the-job training, or the Transition
    Assistance Program (TAP). I look forward to continuing the
    nonpartisan spirit of the subcommittee along with Ranking
    Member Mr. Pappas, great to see him after Thanksgiving, to
    ensure that the VA is working in lockstep with today's job
    market to meet the needs of today's veterans.
        Unfortunately, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) was
    unable to come here today because the Senate has continued to
    slow walk the confirmation process of President Trump's
    appointees. I encourage them strongly to just get these people
    in place. This is not a political issue. We need our political
    leaders in the executive branch to be able to execute the
    programs that we write for them.
        Last Congress, the Biden administration's U.S. Department
    of Labor-Veterans' Employment and Training Service (DOL-VETS)
    consistently failed veterans. We had multiple hearings about
    that. By the end of the Congress, their employment statistics
    were worse than a regular American job center. This committee
    must hear how DOL-VETS is going to turn it around. I look
    forward to having Mr. Workman testify shortly after he is
    confirmed.
        On this note, we had a rather contentious meeting with Mr.
    Tim Cummings, who is in place now. I would like to apologize to
    him for getting a little senior chiefy on him, which I did. I
    have the utmost confidence in Secretary Chavez-DeRemer and also
    Secretary Collins to work this out for the betterment of the
    veterans. That is very important for all of us. We do
    understand that is a higher purpose.
        This hearing is not only getting these VA programs back on
    track, but also to note the importance of shoring up American
    manufacturing as a national security issue. I also serve on the
    House Armed Services Committee, and I cannot tell you enough
    how badly America needs to reenergize defense manufacturing so
    that we are always ready for today and tomorrow to defend our
    way of life. One of the best ways to do this is to show these
    companies that have jobs available that there are thousands of
    veterans ready to fill them.
        Many veterans use the GI Bill within a year of
    transitioning out of the military, oftentimes as a fallback
    option when they do not know what their next mission is.
    Veterans using VA's On-the-Job Training (OJT) and
    apprenticeship programs are able to supplement their income
    with both a living stipend payment from the VA for the post 9-
    11 GI Bill benefits as well as wages from their employer while
    they are enrolled in these VA programs. At the end of their
    training program, they are able to step right into a beneficial
    career. I do not know of many major programs at institutions of
    higher learning that can promise a job at the end of their
    programs. This promise of employment through the apprenticeship
    training is what makes the VA program so special and can help
    combat underemployment and suicide in our veterans population.
        In VA's most recent annual benefits report, the number of
    veterans using their post GI Bill to pursue OJT or
    apprenticeship continues to decline. In 2023, there were only
    1,008 apprenticeships and 776 OJT participants representing
    less than 1 percent of the post GI Bill population. With some
    states having zero individuals participating in this program,
    we are spending around $241 million a year on administrative
    expenses, which include staff salaries and counseling services,
    for such a low success rate, and that is just pathetic. I mean,
    that has just got to stop. The number of veterans in this
    program and our administrative spending are concerning,
    especially given the involvement--or the evolving needs of
    today's workforce in the 21st century.
        In this Congress my subcommittee has championed key
    legislatives regarding VA's apprenticeship programs. My bill,
    H.R. 982, the Warriors Workforce Act, would increase the
    monthly housing allowance that a veteran pursuing an
    apprenticeship or on-the-job training receives during a 6-to
    12-month from 80 to 90 percent. Additionally, Representative
    Barrett led a bill that passed the House, H.R. 3055, the
    Transitioning Retiring and New Service Members to Port Ocean
    Rail and Truck (TRANSPORT) Jobs Act, which would connect
    military veterans with supply chain employment while helping
    veterans secure careers that put their skills and expertise to
    use. My friend from Arizona, Representative Ciscomani, has an
    important bill, H.R. 1458, that would expand GI Bill
    opportunities to get veterans into mechanical fields. Even
    Ranking Member Pappas, Chris, right here, has a bill which I am
    co-sponsoring, H.R. 2954, the Veterans', excuse me, Transition
    to Trucking Act, which will allow VA to access as a State
    approving agent for apprenticeship programs in more than one
    State to receive VA approval. It is an outstanding bill, Chris.
        Clearly this goal of getting veterans at the forefront of
    critical positions in American economy is a nonpartisan issue.
        I would now like to yield to Ranking Member Pappas for his
    opening remarks.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF CHRIS PAPPAS, RANKING MEMBER

        Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thanks
    for the bipartisan spirit there as you highlighted some
    important initiatives on the legislative front. I am really
    glad to be here for this important hearing.
        Before I begin, I want to just state that I am disappointed
    that DOL-VETS will not be joining this hearing and we will not
    be hearing their testimony today. I am glad to have VA with us.
        There is an important issue that I wanted to address at the
    outset here, and that is the issue of Chapter 35 benefits. I
    think it is important to hear from VA about the fact that
    75,000 survivors and dependents using Chapter 35 benefits have
    seen delays over the last many months. Veteran survivors and
    dependents across the country who rely on these benefits for
    housing, education, or anything else have been left in limbo
    with no acknowledgement of the issue or any indication from VA
    when the problem will be resolved.
        Now, we have got a hearing in a few weeks on this topic,
    but I was just discussing this with the chairman in advance of
    this hearing. I am hopeful to hear more from Mr. Smith today
    that he can communicate an update in terms of what is going on,
    not just for us here in the room, but for the veterans,
    families, and survivors at home that have been waiting for
    their benefits for far too long. I am respectfully requesting
    this because we are at the end of the semester, 4 months in,
    beneficiaries have not been able to receive payments and cannot
    wait another 2 weeks to find out what is happening and what the
    status is. It is just unacceptable that VA has failed to
    communicate when answers are needed today.
        We have been hearing from this in our office. To put a
    human face on this, I have a disabled veteran from Laconia, New
    Hampshire, who reached out to our office because his son's
    benefits were delayed a couple months at that point in time.
    Chapter 35 beneficiaries, they need to budget, they need to
    sign leases, pay for textbooks and food, and they need answers.
    At the hearing in 2 weeks, I expect VA to send a prepared
    witness to directly respond to these challenges and to talk
    about the substantive specific information that can help us
    understand this situation. The witness should be a political
    appointee that will not pass the buck.
        With tens of thousands of Americans lives impacted by VA's
    error, it is absolutely unacceptable that not a single VA
    official has bothered to respond to letters that have been sent
    by Ranking Member Takano, Ranking Member Blumenthal, and myself
    to the Department. It is unacceptable that the Department
    canceled a briefing on this topic on October 1st. I know that
    one will be conducted later, that it was over 2 months from
    when this was originally requested. It is almost unbelievable
    that we found out that the impacted beneficiaries grew from 750
    people to over 75,000 through the press. There was no
    communication from the Department to the committee about this.
        This is not a partisan issue. We all have student veterans
    and survivors in our districts have waited months for any
    information. In that spirit, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can work
    together on this and focus on getting the answers that our
    constituents deserve.
        Last, when we do convene a hearing on this, it is critical
    that we hear directly from student veterans themselves, from
    their families, from survivors to fully understand the impact
    on this failure on their lives.
        Now to the topic at hand today, employment pathways for
    veterans. There is a variety of government programs designed to
    help veterans secure employment after their service, but we
    frequently hear from companies that navigating all the programs
    in the various agencies is confusing and it does not meet the
    needs of employers. It is clear to me that much more progress
    needs to be made to improve VA's, U.S. Department of Defense's
    (DOD), and DOL's systems so that more employers are willing to
    participate. When you compare the results for employment-
    focused programs like Skill Bridge with education-focused
    programs like Veterans Technology Education Courses (VET TEC),
    it is clear that involving employers early is key to placing
    veterans in jobs and careers.
        Data shows that programs run directly by employers, trade
    groups, and unions, where veterans get on-the-job training,
    upskilling, and certifications, continue to result in
    successful job placements while companies save on recruiting
    and salary and the government saves on training costs. It is a
    win-win. This dynamic with the government paying a living
    stipend and employers paying for training is a perfect example
    of a public-private partnership that benefits everyone
    involved, most importantly the veteran.
        That being said, we need to continue to ensure that these
    partnership opportunities are not limited to big business.
    Small-and medium-sized companies must have the opportunity to
    participate, to train and hire veterans, which may be where
    trade groups and unions come in. Our small businesses and union
    partners strengthen communities and can provide veterans
    opportunities closer to home.
        Today I would like to hear from our employer panel on their
    interactions with various DOD, VA, and DOL-VETS programs, their
    thoughts on if we should specialize different programs further,
    and what a single point of entry for employers would look like,
    and how we should advertise the benefits of participating in
    these programs to the rest of the business community and who
    should be responsible for that.
        In closing, I just want to note one difference between the
    programs that we are talking about today and the GI Bill. Since
    its inception in 1944, the GI Bill's educational component has
    been about more than just going to school. It is a tool to help
    reintegrate servicemembers back into civil society after their
    service, to enmesh them back into their communities, and to
    build connections after being gone in service of their Nation.
    We must hold those 36 months of eligibility sacred, especially
    now that the benefit does not expire, thanks to the Forever GI
    Bill. We must resist the urge to water it down by using it to
    pay for other benefits.
        If an employment program that we are talking about today
    drains a veteran's GI Bill benefit, we must absolutely ensure
    that, number one, it results in an actual gainful employment
    and that the start of a career is meaningful and not a dead end
    job. number two, that it protects veterans from bad actors who
    take advantage of them. Number three, that it fulfills
    Congress' original intent of the 1944 GI Bill by helping to
    reintegrate servicemembers through community building and
    substantive interaction.
        Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. You are welcome, sir. Thank you, Ranking
    Member Pappas.
        I will just be frank, as long as I am the chairman of the
    subcommittee and Mike Bost is the chair of the whole committee,
    the GI Bill will not be touched, nor will the VA Home Loan
    Guarantee program. It is interesting that you and I, I think,
    are responsible for the two most successful programs the U.S.
    Government has ever created. I am very proud to do that. I
    gotcha.
        I will now introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is
    Mr. Kenneth Smith, executive director at Education Services,
    Veterans Benefit Administration at the Department of Veterans
    Affairs. Accompanying Mr. Smith is Ms. Chanel--it is Chantile?
        Ms. Stovall. Correct, sir, Chantile.
        Mr. Van Orden. Chantile Stovall, acting executive director,
    Veterans Readiness and Employment Service, Veterans Benefits
    Administration at the Department of Veterans Affairs.
        I would ask that the witnesses please stand and raise your
    right hand.
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you. You may sit. Let the
    record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the
    affirmative.
        Mr. Smith, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
    your testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

                       STATEMENT OF KENNETH SMITH

        Mr. Smith. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member
    Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the
    opportunity to testify today to discuss how we can strengthen
    the veteran workforce. Joining me today is Chantile Stovall,
    acting executive director of Veterans Readiness and Employment.
    We are honored to speak with you about how VA is supporting
    veterans as they transition from military to civilian life,
    especially through vocational rehabilitation, noncollege degree
    training, and employment-focused programs.
        Transition support begins early. The VA is committed to
    supporting every servicemember transitioning from the military
    to the civilian workforce as seamlessly as possible. Through
    our partnership with the Department of War, VA reaches
    approximately 200,000 servicemembers each year through the
    Transition Assistance Program. TAP helps servicemembers
    understand and access the full range of VA benefits including
    education, employment, and healthcare.
        To further support transition, in 2019, Virginia launched
    the VA Solid Start (VASS) program. Solid Start calls all
    eligible veterans, regardless of their character of discharge,
    at three key stages during the first year after separation from
    active duty. These calls are unscripted and focus on connecting
    veterans to the right resources at the right time. Since its
    launch, VASS has successfully connected with nearly 75 percent
    of eligible veterans, and these veterans are more likely to use
    their other VA services critical to securing meaningful
    employment.
        In addition to programs provided during service and
    transition, VA supports veterans toward their pathways to
    employment and career readiness, including the Veterans
    Readiness and Employment Program benefits focused on education
    and nongovernmental collaboration and support. Veteran
    Readiness and Employment (VR&E) is the cornerstone of our
    employment support through individualized counseling,
    employment planning, and hands-on training for disabled
    veterans seeking to overcome service-connected disabilities and
    return to work. In Fiscal Year 2024 alone, VR&E conducted
    nearly 20,000 one-on-one briefings with transitioning
    servicemembers. The program also supports noncollege pathways,
    like apprenticeships, on-the-job training, and the non-paid
    Work Experience Program, helping veterans gain real-world
    skills in fields like trucking, plumbing, and contracting.
        Personalized career planning and guidance (PCPG) counseling
    is available to discharging veterans and ensures that they make
    the most informed choice for their post military education and
    employment path. PCPG helps veterans weigh options for college,
    apprenticeships, certificate programs, on-the-job training, and
    other high demand sectors to maximize career outcomes and
    economic mobility.
        Noncollege degree training is a growing priority and VA is
    ready to assist. President Trump issued Executive Orders 14278
    and 14269 to optimize and target Federal programs and workforce
    development for high-paying skilled trades and maritime
    industries. In Fiscal Year 2024, over 17,000 post 9-11 GI Bill
    beneficiaries began vocational or technical training and nearly
    1,800 entered on-the-job or apprenticeship programs. Benefits
    may be used for apprenticeships in OJT and high-paying skilled
    trades, including advanced manufacturing, welding automation,
    and industrial technology.
        Additionally, VA reimburses for licensing and certification
    exams such as for commercial driving, home inspection, nursing
    assistance, and artificial intelligence. VA will continue to
    partner with Department of Labor and others to expand marketing
    to assist employers in recruiting veterans and ensure veterans
    are aware of the GI Bill opportunities, including
    apprenticeships and OJT programs.
        In Fiscal Year 2026, the VA looks forward to the
    implementation of the new VET TEC program authorized by the
    Elizabeth Dole Act to connect veterans to high-tech training in
    fields like cybersecurity, data analytics, and cloud computing.
    During the pilot phase, over 16,000 veterans completed training
    and more than 8,000 secured meaningful employment within 6
    months, earning an average starting salary of over $65,000.
        In closing, VA is committed to ensuring that every
    transitioning servicemember and veteran has access to the
    tools, training, and support they need to succeed in the
    civilian workforce, whether through college, vocational
    training, or direct employment pathways.
        Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Kenneth Smith Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Smith. The written statement
    of Mr. Smith will be entered into the hearing record.
        We are now going to proceed with questioning, and I will
    remind our members that you will each have 5 minutes for your
    questions.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Pappas for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Smith, if I could turn to you and just get at the
    challenges that I presented in my opening remarks that veterans
    are facing right now with respect to Chapter 35 of benefits for
    veterans and their survivors. Can you talk and give us an
    update on these Chapter 35 issues?
        Back in August, we received information that this was an
    issue impacting about 750 individuals. Schools found out that
    that number was more like 75,000. Where does that number stand?
    Most importantly, when can these beneficiaries in districts
    like ours receive their overdue payments?
        Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. We look forward to
    addressing Chapter 35 questions in detail at the upcoming
    hearing, as well as in our staff briefing this Friday. We have
    continued to make progress through the 42 days of the shutdown
    and the 13 business days since then, and we will have a full
    set of statistics for you at that hearing or on Friday.
        Mr. Pappas. I am not asking for complete detail right now,
    but just some assurance that VA is working on this issue and
    making progress. We are talking about thousands and thousands
    of veterans and their family members that have been impacted by
    this. They deserve an answer today.
        We have sent a couple letters on this topic, one dated
    October 3d to the Department, another dated November 13th. It
    has been crickets. We have not heard anything back, and
    veterans deserve an answer. Can you give them a little bit more
    of an assurance how VA is working to address this?
        Mr. Smith. You have my assurance that we have been working
    on it. Our field team of claims processors has been hard at
    work doing this through the shutdown. I apologize for the
    delays in these letters. It is my understanding that they are
    working their way through the VA concurrence process and will
    be released to you as soon as possible.
        Mr. Pappas. Where does that number stand? How many folks
    are waiting right now?
        Mr. Smith. I cannot provide you an answer on that right
    now.
        Mr. Pappas. Are you going to provide us with a briefing in
    advance of the hearing in 2 weeks that will give us a little
    bit more detail so that we can provide the oversight that
    veterans and their family members deserve?
        Mr. Smith. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Pappas. Now, can you talk a little bit more about some
    of the other challenges the Department has faced? I am just
    wondering, in terms of the lapse of funding, who has made
    decisions with respect to furloughing employees during the
    shutdown? Is it your understanding that the White House's
    guidance during the lapse in appropriations was that employees
    supporting government-funded programs, including mandatory
    programs, were to be essential in working during the shutdown?
        Mr. Smith. Sir, our VA contingency plan was published on
    the website. I know decisions were made far above my level
    about furlough status, so I would have to take that back for
    the Department to respond to.
        Mr. Pappas. Who made those decisions in terms of the
    programs we are talking about today?
        Mr. Smith. In terms of the overall VA posture, I cannot
    say, sir. I would have to get the Department's opinion on that.
        Mr. Pappas. Well, we are going to need more detail there,
    too.
        Ms. Stovall, if I can turn to you about VR&E. The American
    Legion statement for the record highlighted concerns with
    staffing numbers, and that is an ongoing challenge we have
    discussed in this subcommittee quite frequently. What is the
    current counselor to veteran ratio?
        Ms. Stovall. Currently the ratio is 1-to-200.
        Mr. Pappas. Okay. How many counselor job openings do you
    have across the country? Can you just assess whether counselors
    are keeping up with that workload, knowing that that ratio is
    far above where the target is?
        Ms. Stovall. Yes, we have 1,310 positions allocated for our
    Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor (VRC) VRSS, and we have
    currently 1,010 onboarded.
        To the second part of your question, so we have implemented
    our national case assignment strategy to help with those high
    work--high caseloads at some of the stations that have lower
    capacity to complete some of that work. We are also
    implementing overtime for our VRCs on a voluntary basis. We are
    also implementing help teams to complete orientations to get
    veterans into entitlement decisions--see counselors for
    entitlement decisions more quickly.
        Mr. Pappas. Yes. How have these issues impacted the veteran
    experience? What are their wait times like for VR&E?
        Ms. Stovall. The current overall wait time is 81 days.
    Prior to the shutdown, we were seeing a decline from 54 days
    down to 50 days, and now we are currently at 81 days. Again, we
    are using those help teams to help us make sure that we can get
    veterans seen in entitlement decisions and plans written so
    that they are able to start school in January.
        Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you. I appreciate your attention to
    those matters.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The ranking member yields back.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Barrett from the great State
    of Michigan for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
    panel. Thank you both for being here today. Mr. Chairman, thank
    you for the shout-out on the TRANSPORT Jobs Act. We are hopeful
    that that will help kind of bridge the gap between members
    leaving military service and finding employment in critical
    sectors of the economy where we certainly have a shortage
    taking place.
        You know, this really struck a chord with me recently as we
    saw the tragic case out in California, where an illegal
    Commercial Driver's License (CDL) operator, illegal immigrant
    in the country, performed an illegal maneuver, led to, you
    know, to the fatalities of Americans that were here. To me, I
    am thinking about this, I am like, why are we operating a
    system where it is benefiting people operating illegally when
    we could be employing veterans who have trained and are
    qualified in these ways, but may not have the appropriate
    civilian licensing that is necessary? They have driven trucks,
    they have done supply chain jobs in their military capacity,
    but then they do not have the reciprocity with civilian
    licensing to get that appropriate job and opportunity back
    home.
        One of the original reasons, the very first reason I was
    motivated to run for office a decade ago, I came home from the
    Army and I saw that a whole host of my battle buddies that I
    had served with were really struggling to find opportunities in
    Michigan at the time. We were leading the country. We were the
    second overall State in the Nation for veteran unemployment
    rate. This is back in, you know, the 2000, mid-2000, 2015
    timeframe. Michigan was coming out of this great recession at
    the time, and we were hit predominantly hard in that effect.
    Veterans always seem to suffer the worst brunt of economic
    downturns. Having a robust ability for transitioning veterans
    to come home is really important because I think it really
    provides that stability, that purpose, and that fundamental
    dignity that comes with being someone who is transitioning back
    home and finding that next mission in life.
        The work that we do on this committee is really important
    in that effort to really establish a framework for how we are
    going to welcome people back home and provide them that self-
    sufficient dignity that they deserve.
        I had a few questions for you about some of the shifts that
    we have seen within the economy away from maybe some of the
    traditional 4-year degree programs and into other skilled trade
    or other skilled professions and things like that. I am curious
    if you can give us any insight why we have still seen an
    overwhelming preponderance of people going into the traditional
    4-year degree fields and less inclined to go into the trade
    opportunities that may be a better fit for them based on their
    skills that they have acquired in the military.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I wish I had a
    good answer for you, but, honestly, we do not have a survey
    mechanism to ask veterans why they choose the path that they
    choose. That would certainly be, you know, something that we--
    --
        Mr. Barrett. Yes. Do you think it has anything to do with
    the reimbursement rates and what they can qualify for under a
    4-year program versus a trade opportunity, the apprenticeship
    programs, and some of the just I guess, reimbursement and other
    value ability of some of these programs that are available to
    them?
        Mr. Smith. It could be. There are a number of instances
    where if you look at a 4-year--you know, what we pay for a 4-
    year college degree----
        Mr. Barrett. Yes.
        Mr. Smith [continuing]. the total package value would be
    much higher than for a noncollege degree or an apprenticeship
    program.
        Mr. Barrett. Okay. Then I know I actually was in Michigan a
    few weeks ago in my district and met with a man who runs this
    group, Workshops for Warriors. I think he has actually
    testified in front of this subcommittee last Congress. He told
    me that there is a cap. He runs a trade program, a skilled
    trade apprenticeship-type program that gives certification to
    veterans, things like that. I think he told me there is a cap
    for an institution of how many of their students can receive GI
    Bill and other veteran benefits. Is that true, that there is a
    limitation there for institutions?
        Mr. Smith. There is a statutory requirement for 85 percent.
    It is an 85-15 rule, up to 85 percent supportable through
    government programs.
        Mr. Barrett. Is there a waiver available for that or would
    that need to be provided in law?
        Mr. Smith. Yes. I am sorry, I said that backward, 85
    percent nonfunded, 15 percent funded. We can give a waiver to
    allow someone to exceed 35 percent as well, so that that waiver
    opportunity is available.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Appreciate it.
        With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back with 10 seconds
    to go.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Kennedy from the great State
    of New York.
        Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Thank you all for being here, your
    testimony.
        The GI Bill is a sacred promise that helps veterans pursue
    education, transition into civilian life, and provide for their
    families, including the survivors and children of those who
    have sacrificed everything. Our responsibility on this
    committee is to ensure that that promise remains strong.
        A recent negotiated rule from the Department of Education
    on loan limits for certain advanced graduate degrees has raised
    serious concerns, especially for veterans pursuing fields like
    nursing, education, physical and occupational therapy, social
    work, and many other advanced degrees in healthcare,
    particularly, but not exclusively. These are students and
    veterans who rely on both GI benefits and Federal loans to
    cover the full cost of their programs.
        We need answers about delays as well on Chapter 35 benefits
    for survivors and dependents. The VA has not responded to
    congressional inquiries and recent staffing cuts affecting
    payment processing is certainly troubling. These issues require
    immediate attention. The delay is beyond concerning. It is
    infuriating, quite frankly.
        Mr. Smith, countless Americans, including future nurses,
    therapists, and other essential healthcare providers, are
    worried they may no longer be able to complete their graduate
    professional degree programs under the Department of
    Education's rule that restricts access to Federal loans for
    certain healthcare professions. Veterans relying on GI Bill
    benefits deserve immediate clarity. Is it your understanding
    that GI Bill coverage for professional degree programs like
    nursing, physical and occupational therapy, and others will
    remain entirely separate from and completely unaffected by the
    Department of Education's draft rule?
        Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question, sir. I am unaware of
    the details of the Department of Education's draft rule, but we
    do pay benefits up to the annual max amount set by Congress for
    private schools. For public schools, there is no limit. As
    well, the Yellow Ribbon program allows veterans to--and allows
    schools to match 50 percent to exceed that the max cap that is
    set each year.
        Mr. Kennedy. The rule that was passed in the Big Ugly Bill,
    it cuts the ability for a student in half to achieve their
    Federal loan need. My question is very simple. Will that impact
    our veterans who also rely on the GI Bill?
        Mr. Smith. We will continue to administer GI Bill payments
    just as we always have. I cannot imagine a deference to the
    Department of Education on that.
        Mr. Kennedy. Okay. You do not know the answer?
        Mr. Smith. I do not know.
        Mr. Kennedy. Okay. Well, unfortunately, that does not
    answer my question. Obviously, veterans, including those
    pursuing these advanced degrees in healthcare, need clear
    guidance and assurances. Many are still going to require
    Federal loans even after using their GI Bill benefits. If those
    loans are restricted under this rule, it is going to impede
    their ability to afford their education. Hence, they are not
    going to go into these healthcare roles where the need for
    nursing by 2033, we are told from the Bureau of Labor
    Statistics, we need to be hiring 200,000 nurses a year to
    achieve where we need to be. We are already behind the eight
    ball and we know our veterans make great nurses and healthcare
    practitioners across the board.
        I am curious how the VA is assessing the impact on these VA
    benefits. You know, how are our returning veterans that are
    trying to go into these fields, how are they going to be
    impacted?
        Mr. Smith. The statute allows us to pay 36 months of
    benefits in the post--under the post 9-11 GI Bill program. We
    will continue to deliver benefits to include both tuition and
    fees, books and supplies, as well as the monthly housing
    allowance to all veterans who are in the program.
        Mr. Kennedy. I think this is essential that the VA consider
    moving forward is how to prevent veterans who have served our
    Nation from being denied access or being pushed out of the
    field that they would like to go into, especially with such a
    great need for healthcare practitioners in this country.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the
    beautiful Northern Mariana Islands.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the
    witnesses for the opportunity to have a conversation this
    morning.
        You know, jobs, right, we are here because we want to talk
    about how we get these vets employed. One of the things that I
    always hear back home that makes me laugh, but makes me kind of
    sad, is when I see certain vets, they are like, thank you for
    your service, but where is the service for my service? Right? I
    think there are gaps in terms of some of these programs that
    they are entitled to, that is not translating into them after
    leaving service to get into a career where some of these
    benefits that are currently provided for is not leading to that
    path.
        I also sit in the Small Business Committee. One of the
    conversations that we had last week with some of the panelists
    is, you know, just the shortage of workers in certain
    industries, like manufacturing. Right? One of the panelists
    said something that really struck me, which was, you know, it
    is not--it should not be education for all, but careers for
    all. What we are seeing as a trend across the country is that
    there are all these jobs that are just very hard to fill
    because we do not have the skilled labor.
        I am listening to the conversation that we are having about
    the GI Bill and, you know, Rep. Barrett's question with regards
    to the amount of benefits that are given for 4-year degree
    programs versus these technical trade schools types of programs
    that are available. Obviously, folks are going to be
    incentivized to pursue the 4-year route, right, if you are
    going to get more money.
        How do we look at that gap and create an opportunity where
    trade school education has the same value as a 4-year degree
    within the system? It is an open-ended question to both of you.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. I think we are
    certainly willing to help Congress and we can meet with you as
    well as with employers and other stakeholders to have that
    conversation about the policy issues and how to resolve those
    through new statute.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Did you want to chime in, Ms. Stovall?
        Ms. Stovall. I would say in my short 4 months that I have
    been in this position, it has been rather exploratory. I do
    know that we have some areas where we can focus more on
    employment and that is one of the areas that I am looking to
    improve. Currently, we do have 96 percent of our participants
    that are following our employment through long-term services
    track and only about 2.5 percent that are in our rapid access
    track, which is the track that we use for veterans that have
    skills and may just need resume development and job development
    services to help them.
        I am looking into that to see what is driving that high
    usage rate of our employment through long-term services track
    to see how we can improve and leverage participation of our
    other tracks that may be more appropriate. We do know that
    veterans come out of the military with multiple skill sets and
    so we need to figure out what we need to do to make sure that
    we are utilizing them and we are looking at how we can return
    them to the employment market.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Do you see some sort of perhaps an
    accrediting system as something that would be beneficial? That
    when, you know, folks are in the military who already developed
    a certain skill, right, when they come out, some sort of an
    accrediting body can now take whatever that skill level is so
    that they are not now having to replicate the same training
    that they have already had and that they have already been
    doing, but could actually have physical paperwork to say I am
    qualified, I am certified, I have the credentials.
        Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. I do believe that
    it is, for VR&E, I think it is important for us to help them
    identify how they are able to sell themselves and when they are
    talking to employers.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from the great State
    of Illinois.
        Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Ranking
    Member, for having us in this hearing today. I want to thank
    both of our witnesses who are joining us today.
        It has been a couple months since this subcommittee met and
    a lot has happened in those 5 months. I want to go ahead and
    start, since I am not sure when we will have another committee
    hearing, to talk a little bit about the effects of the last 5
    months. Really, I want to talk about the impact that the
    government shutdown had on veterans.
        Mr. Smith, I want to go ahead and start with you. Mr.
    Smith, for the record, did the government shutdown negatively
    affect veterans? Yes or no?
        Mr. Smith. Yes.
        Ms.Ramirez. Thank you. Yes. Just for the record, I
    appreciate you answering honestly here. 1.2 million veterans
    were at risk of losing Supplemental Nutrition Assistance
    Program (SNAP) benefits, as you know. More than 75,000 veterans
    and their family members had their tuition and housing payments
    delayed after the software problem stopped the automated
    delivery of their benefits. We also know that 56 VA Regional
    Benefit Offices were closed to the public, and more than 16,000
    servicemembers preparing to leave the military were unable to
    receive the VA transition briefings.
        Mr. Smith, recognizing that you saw the impact, did the
    government furlough any veteran employees at the VA? Yes or no?
        Mr. Smith. Did we furlough----
        Ms.Ramirez. Did you furlough any veteran employees at the
    Veteran Affairs Department?
        Mr. Smith. I am sure we did.
        Ms. Ramirez. Yes, you did. According to the VA press
    release, 37,000 VA employees were furloughed, and estimates
    that are about 120,000 veterans that work for the VA also were
    impacted. It is likely that many, many veterans were
    furloughed.
        Mr. Smith, did the government shutdown have any negative
    impact on veterans trying to access educational benefits like
    the GI Bill hotline or the VR&E counseling case management? Yes
    or no?
        Mr. Smith. The education call center was closed during the
    shutdown.
        Ms. Ramirez. It was impacted. Okay.
        Just for the record, I just want to make sure we note this
    since we have not met for the last 5 months, and this shutdown
    by the majority really had an impact. I want to make sure I put
    this on the record. More than 900,000 veterans were unable to
    get assistance from the GI Bill hotline. More than 100,000
    enrolled veterans did not get their Veteran Readiness and
    Employment program, counseling, or case management services. By
    October 30, there was a backlog of new applicants for the
    program of more than 61,988 applications. I want to make sure I
    put that on the record.
        I also want to state that I was extremely frustrated that
    my staff were working around the clock every single day and
    they were unable to connect with the congressional liaison when
    they were attempting to advocate on behalf of the veterans that
    I represent. The Secretary directed leaders and staff within
    the VA to use congressionally appropriated funds to send these
    politically charged messages to veterans and congressional
    staff about the shutdown, which I think is a clear violation of
    the Hatch Act, instead of trying to work with us to try to help
    them. I want to make sure that I note this because the shutdown
    may have ended, but the impact is still there.
        With that, the last minute and a half I have, I want to
    talk a little bit more about workforce opportunities here.
    Access to a quality education is one of the promises we made to
    veterans and we must deliver. The VET TEC is now drowning on GI
    Bill benefits, yet VA's own data shows that the VET TEC's
    employment rate is only at 49 percent within the 180 days of
    program completion.
        Mr. Smith, when VA's own data shows that the VET TEC fails
    to leave to employment for more than half of participating
    veterans, is not restoring their GI Bill benefits essential so
    veterans are not stuck paying the price when their training
    fails to yield gainful employment?
        Mr. Smith. Thank you for the question. Based on the statute
    and design of the VET TEC program authorized by the Elizabeth
    Dole Act, if there is no remaining entitlement, the veteran is
    allowed to train without cost, so they are allowed to enroll
    and pursue the VET TEC program. Then they are charged
    entitlement if they do have remaining entitlement.
        Ms.Ramirez. Yet half of the participating veterans are not
    getting their restorated GI Bill benefits. I just want to make
    sure I note that because the purpose is to be able to help them
    get gainful employment. That is why, you know, I think some of
    us have been working the last few years.
        I have 10 seconds left, Chairman. I worked on the Student
    Veteran Benefit Restoration Act and I am going to be
    reintroducing it. It will be really important for us to work
    bipartisan the way we did before to make sure this bill finally
    passes.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields back.
        The chair now recognizes my great friend, Mr. Juan
    Ciscomani from the State of Arizona.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chairman. Thank
    you all for the witnesses here for being here as well to
    testify about this important topic.
        You know, as our country continues to face shortages in key
    industries like electrical work, trucking, manufacturing, and
    energy, this committee must ensure that veterans are made aware
    of every pathway to a meaningful career. In a recent survey,
    more than 70 percent of Veteran Readiness Employment
    participants of the VR&E enter into an undergraduate program
    where about 3-1/2 percent entered into a vocational or
    technical program and participation rates on for on-the-job
    training remain especially low. Given the robust wages and
    impressive employment outcomes associated with these programs,
    it is clear that significant improvements in outreach are
    needed.
        My bill, H.R. 1458, the Veteran Education and Technical
    Skills Opportunity Act, the Veterans Education and Technical
    Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, expands access to vocational and
    technical training by extending educational benefits in the
    post 9-11 GI Bill to include both in-person and hybrid versions
    of skilled trade training programs in order to address skilled
    trade labor shortages. Today's hearing is an opportunity to
    learn how the VA is refocusing on all educational pathways,
    degrees and non-degrees, and the best ways we can assist
    veterans in obtaining high-paying jobs and strengthen the
    American workforce and the shortages associated with that.
        I have got a--I want to start off with a question here
    regarding the Dole Act. Now, Mr. Smith, this is for you. The
    Dole Act was signed into law last January and it included
    improvements to the VET TEC program that is very key to the
    issues that we are talking about here. Now, the VA now it says
    that it is going to implement the VET TEC program into the
    first quarter of 2026. That is well over a year after this was
    signed into law. This is, quite frankly, unacceptable. I am not
    sure why it is taking so long, especially given that Congress
    paid for the provisions to this almost immediately.
        I am also on the Appropriations Committee, so I know that
    well. We had the legislation and we had the appropriated funds
    for that as well. Why has it taken this long and why cannot we
    implement it today?
        Mr. Smith. Sir, thank you for the question. We have been
    working to build a payment or a claims processing and payment
    system to support the VET TEC program. Because of the changes
    to the underlying program, the requirements changed and we
    needed to make changes to our claims processing tool.
        Second, our new payment processing system needs to be
    updated so that it can also process and pay those. We are
    looking to do that in third quarter of this year, be done in
    third quarter of this year, so that we can field that program.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Third quarter of this year?
        Mr. Smith. Yes, 2026.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, next year then you are talking about.
        Mr. Smith. We are in Fiscal Year 2026. I am sorry.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Okay, Okay. On the fiscal year, gotcha.
        Well, there has got to be a way to be able to speed this
    up. I mean, the funds are there. The legislation was passed.
    This has a direct impact on where we want to go here with
    workforce, especially when we talk about the traits and so on.
    I am hoping to maybe get a little more concrete timeline or
    what is in the way of this. I do want to add some friendly
    pressure here because this is--time is of the essence here.
        Again, it has been--it will be over a year by the time
    that, you know, your stated goal of quarter 1 gets implemented.
    Hopefully, we can get on that pretty quickly. I would
    appreciate an update on that when you have a more specific
    timeline.
        Mr. Smith. Will do.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Now, let me move on to another
    question. I cannot see my time here, Mr. Chairman. One minute.
    Okay. Well, I do not have a lot of time, but so I will move to
    Ms. Stovall, if we can do that.
        The VR&E meta data report highlights that, like I said,
    only 3-1/2 percent of veterans in the program pursue vocational
    or technical training and just about 0.4 percent participate in
    apprenticeships. What do you believe is driving such low
    participation in the career-building pathway, specifically on
    this one? What strategies can be implementing to increase
    awareness and enrollment in those programs?
        Ms. Stovall. That is one of the areas that I am looking
    into, sir, to determine, you know, what is driving the high
    participation rates in training programs. What I have tasked my
    staff with is looking at what are our top 4-year degree
    programs and how can we match those with apprenticeships and
    OJTs that currently exist that may be a better route to help
    our veterans enter employment more quickly?
        Mr. Ciscomani. I agree. Mr. Chairman, thank you. I would
    say that, you know, I think we, at least in Arizona or in
    Tucson, we may need not as many more attorneys, but we need
    more on the trades. We are missing that for sure. If we can----
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
        Mr. Ciscomani. No offense to any of the attorneys in the
    room here, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Van Orden. Not me.
        Mr. Ciscomani. No, I am not looking at you. I am looking
    past you.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Okay.
        Mr. Van Orden. We are good. Mr. Kennedy? Maybe. I do not
    know. The gentleman's time has expired.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State
    of Kentucky.
        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        This hearing is pretty simple. We want to make sure that
    our veterans, our men and women who put on the uniform, can
    build a good life and a good career after they transition away
    from the military. We know that there are some successful
    programs. The GI Bill has done a great job, but not all
    veterans need a 4-year degree. In fact, there are a lot of
    programs out there that can help, but the fact is veterans are
    not using these nondegree options.
        We got to build some pathways. This is like, I hate using
    government speak. Let us not talk about pathways. Veterans need
    jobs and we got to make sure that they have what they need to
    get jobs. We have some things out there. Skill Bridge, these
    are registered apprenticeships, union training programs,
    industry partnerships. We know how this can work. Our
    collective responsibility, both on this committee and at the VA
    is to make sure that our veterans are not burning through their
    benefits only to be left with nothing really to show for it at
    the end.
        We need accountability. We got to have some clarity. We got
    to have some employer partnerships that deliver results for our
    veterans. We got to make sure that our veterans who have
    already shown the initiative to put on that uniform, to go into
    the service, can take the skills they have there and use them
    in the civilian world to get a good job and have a good life
    for their families.
        I look at this statistic. I am going to follow up on what
    Mr. Ciscomani said a minute ago. Fewer than 20 percent of their
    veterans right now use the GI Bill for nondegree options. Only
    20 percent. Your testimony today has stated this may be due to
    a lack of wider awareness. Not using government speak, let us
    talk about this in a real way. What percentage of our veterans
    do you think should be using their GI Bill for nondegree
    options? What is the VA doing to make sure they know about
    these options and where they exist?
        Mr. Smith. I will ask Ms. Stovall to respond in a second.
    First let me say I think there is an awareness problem. Both VA
    needs to be communicating with employers, partnering with
    employers to overcome that apprehension behind, you know,
    entering into a formal arrangement where they will be
    submitting enrollments and other documentation to VA.
        Second, while we address this in PCPG, all of the pathways
    for education benefits, I think that we need to do a better job
    of other marketing around the idea of what opportunities are
    available for all of these different avenues.
        You know, we are limited in some degree based on the
    statute. We deliver the benefit, we do not advise. That is
    where Ms. Stovall's team comes in, so I will ask her to add
    just a little bit to that.
        Ms. Stovall. Under VR&E, the way that the statute is
    written, a veteran is able to identify a vocational goal and
    based on that vocational goal would receive the training,
    whether that is a degree, diploma, or certification. They
    receive the training that is recognized for entry into that
    field. Based on comprehensive assessments, the VRC, or
    vocational rehabilitation counselor, will work with them to
    determine what the most appropriate goal would be to get them
    to suitable employment.
        Mr. McGarvey. 20 percent right now are using the GI Bill
    for nondegree options. Do you think that number should be
    higher or lower?
        Ms. Stovall. I would defer that to Mr. Smith.
        Mr. Smith. I do not have an opinion. I do not know what the
    right number should be.
        Mr. McGarvey. Okay, Okay. Right now, it says that VR&E
    employment outcomes are at 74 percent for program completers.
    We have learned that counselor shortages and long wait times
    are part of this problem. Right now, VR&E employment outcomes
    are at 74 percent. That needs to be higher. Right? We have
    heard about counselor shortages, long wait times. How are we
    fixing this problem to make sure that veterans do not have to
    wait months just to start?
        Ms. Stovall. Thank you for the question. We are looking at
    increasing--well, there is a couple things we are doing as far
    as our transformation efforts to make sure that we can render
    timely services. We have implemented a new case assignment
    system. We have--actually, I forgot to mention it earlier, but
    we do have 91 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) that we will be
    onboarding this month to help with our vacant--fill those
    vacancies. We are also continuing to use some of our help teams
    to assist with backlogs.
        Mr. McGarvey. We are out of time. I have more thing. I do
    want to point out, Mr. Chairman, graduation rates look Okay,
    but only half of graduates land meaningful employment within
    180 days. That is 6 months without a paycheck, so we got to do
    better.
        Mr. Van Orden. Roger that. The gentleman yields back.
        I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
        Part of this issue is back in the 1970's for some reason
    everybody thought that every single American needed to go to a
    4-year college. They treated the rest of us that decided to
    join the military at 18 like we are less people, and that is
    not the case. The trades are where it is at. If you want to
    work with your hands, work with your hands because that is how
    America is built. America is not built because somebody has a
    degree in 13th century French poetry. It is because a dude went
    to one of these union shops and became a carpenter. Let us just
    remember that.
        These numbers should be higher. The goal is employment. It
    is not a piece of paper on a wall. Let us always remember that.
        A lot of these things I think, you know, my colleagues are
    concerned about. I am, too. I think we need to look at making
    sure that our TAP program addresses this more, that we educate
    our folks getting out of the military about the trades. Show
    them that, you know, you can make an exceptionally good living
    by being a tradesman.
        I went, gee, it was last year, I was driving by, you know,
    doing doors and stuff when I was running for office, a year and
    a half ago, I guess. There was this dude there, he had this
    great house and this bitching boat and a truck and all this
    stuff. I stopped, I asked him what he did for a living. He said
    he is a lineman and his wife went to a tech school and she was
    an X-ray tech. You can live a very, very high-quality life by
    working with your hands. I just need to make sure that
    everybody understands that.
        Mr. Smith, DOL-VETS is not here today, and we talked about
    that earlier. I think it is because of the intransigence of the
    Senate. We need to get those people in here. Can you tell me
    any redundancies between you and DOL-VETS? Between the
    Department of Veterans Affairs and the DOL-VETS.
        Mr. Smith. I do not believe there is any redundancy. We
    certainly partner with DOL-VETS and we leverage their
    registration process for apprenticeships and we then accept
    them. We deem them as approved.
        Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Smith, you guys have similar workforce
    programs, homeless programs. There are a lot of redundancies
    and we see these all the time. Can you tell me all these
    processing things that we have going on, it just seems like it
    is taking a long time. Do you guys use any type of innovative
    technologies to accelerate the process of registering? We have
    got a shortage of our counselors. What type of automated
    processes are in place to help speed along all of these
    functions?
        Mr. Smith. In education, we are very interested in
    automation. Right now we are automating more than 50 percent of
    our claims to speed benefits to people. Mostly--or benefits are
    actually delivered in less than 15 minutes. You can apply for a
    certificate of eligibility and, you know, in a matter of
    minutes know that you are eligible to use your benefits for any
    number of programs.
        Mr. Van Orden. Then it takes, what, 81 days, ma'am, to get
    rolling? Is that right?
        Ms. Stovall. Eighty-one days in reference to?
        Mr. Van Orden. Did not you say it takes 81 days to get
    these things done for the Army?
        Ms. Stovall. The wait time.
        Mr. Van Orden. The wait time.
        Ms. Stovall. The wait time. Correct.
        Mr. Van Orden. If it can be automated in 15 minutes, Mr.
    Smith, why does it take 81 days for completion?
        Mr. Smith. That is on the education side, to provide an
    entitlement determination for the GI Bill.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
        Mr. Smith. Vocational rehabilitation has a different
    process, you know, that requires some additional work on the
    front end.
        Mr. Van Orden. Well, so I used VR&E, and I do not
    understand, I mean, you sit down and you fill out this battery
    of questions, then you talk to somebody. I do not know why that
    takes 81 days. I mean, I just--I simply do not understand that.
        Ms. Stovall. We have, with our new case management system,
    Readiness and Employment System, or RES, we have been able to
    automate the eligibility process.
        Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
        Ms. Stovall. With that, that has reduced the wait time for
    a veteran to be seen by a case manager for an entitlement
    decision.
        Mr. Van Orden. Yes, we have lower--we got a bill through
    the House that lowered the education requirement for these
    counselors; used to have a master's degree for this. I do not
    mean to disparage the folks that are doing this job, but it
    simply is not that complicated. More automation, more better.
    We just have to get over this institutional inertia that is the
    VA and focus on the veterans. I know that you guys are doing
    that pretty well.
        With that, I yield back. We will--with that, I yield back,
    and we will be dismissing this panel. Thank you so much for
    your time. I appreciate it greatly. We will take a short break
    while we empanel the next question group.
        [Recess.]
        Mr. Van Orden. The committee will come to order.
        On our second panel, we are going to hear from the
    following witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Greg Hamm, vice
    president of field and government recruiting at Werner
    Enterprise, testifying on behalf of the American Trucking
    Associations (ATA). Our next witness is Gary LaBarbera, Jr.
    Where? There you are. Business agent, Teamsters Local 282, and
    Helmets to Hardhats trade advisor, testifying on behalf of the
    International Brotherhood of Teamsters. I want to thank First
    Sergeant LaBarbera for his service. He just retired. First
    shirt, good job. Semper Fi. We just had our 250th birthday.
    Kind of a big deal. Hope you had a good time. Woke up with a
    headache, probably. Our third witness is Mr. Jerome A. Grant,
    chief executive officer (CEO) at Universal Technical Institute
    (UTI). Our fourth witness is from the great State of Wisconsin.
    Mr. Vang, it is wonderful to see you. Human resources manager
    at ORC Industries. I want to thank Mr. Vang for being here and
    representing my home State. It is great to see you, sir. Our
    final witness is Mr. Dave Bostic, service development manager,
    aftermarket and customer support for Region 4, testifying on
    behalf of Deere & Company.
        I would like all the witnesses to stand and raise your
    right hand, please.
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        Mr. Van Orden. Very well. You may be seated. Let the record
    reflect that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
        Mr. Hamm, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
    your testimony.

                         STATEMENT OF GREG HAMM

        Mr. Hamm. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member
    Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting
    me to testify on behalf of the American Trucking Associations
    and Werner Enterprises. My name is Greg Hamm. I am the vice
    president of field and government recruiting at Werner
    Enterprises. As a proud U.S. Army veteran, I understand, both
    personally and professionally, the challenges that come with
    transition into the civilian role.
        The Army transformed my life by giving me the discipline to
    do things the right way, even when no one is watching, the grit
    to push through when things get hard, and the commitment to
    finish what I start, and a sense of honor that comes from being
    part of something bigger than myself. These are the same
    qualities that I see in veterans embarking on civilian careers.
    It is why I am devoted to helping find them opportunities in
    the trucking industry.
        At Werner, we take pride in being one of the Nation's
    largest and most dedicated employers of veterans and military
    families. Our average driver earns over $75,000 a year, and
    many earn well into the six figures. Approximately 20 percent,
    or 1 in 5, of our 13,000 associates are military-connected and
    our goal is to reach 25 percent, or 1 in 4. Our team of veteran
    recruiters has walked the same path as the men and women that
    we serve.
        Veterans entering Werner can pursue careers ranging from
    professional drivers to technicians to safety roles,
    operations, logistics management. We extend educational
    support, tuition assistance, and military community resource
    groups to ensure that veterans and spouses have the tools they
    need to thrive.
        Werner's holistic approach to career development has
    produced countless success stories. One example is Sergeant
    Eric Macedo, who served over 6 years in the Army as a mechanic.
    Despite his extensive experience maintaining complex equipment
    and leading soldiers, he struggled to translate his skills into
    the civilian career. By using his GI Bill benefits to enroll in
    Werner's Registered Apprenticeship program, he earned a CDL,
    quickly advanced at our company, and today he serves as a road
    team captain and as a mentor. Eric frequently tells us that the
    structure and the community that he rediscovered at Werner
    restored his sense of purpose that he felt in the service.
        Eric's story underscores what is possible when policymakers
    and employers work hand in hand. The Federal Government can
    help more veterans like Eric by increasing funding for the
    Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) Operator Safety Training Grant
    program, CMVOST, which will expand access to quality CDL
    programs; passing Chairman Van Orden's Warriors to Workforce
    Act to ease the housing burden on veterans undergoing job
    training; passing the Veterans Transition to Trucking Act to
    reduce the VA's red tape on apprenticeship programs; and
    passing the TRANSPORT Jobs Act to make it easier for veterans
    and their spouses to find jobs in the supply chain.
        Each year, approximately 200,000 servicemembers separate
    from the U.S. armed forces. In trucking and across the country,
    the benefits of hiring veterans are clear: the work ethic,
    leadership, adaptability, teamwork, high moral standard and
    character, and the ability to operate under pressure. Veterans
    bring the values that make the workplace and the supply chain
    stronger. Hiring them is not charity. This is smart business.
        Ranking Member Pappas and Chairman Van Orden demonstrated
    their commitment to expanding meaningful career pathways for
    those who have served by spearheading the passage of the
    Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act last year.
    I am confident that this subcommittee will build on that
    progress to empower veterans and their families and employers
    to broaden and broaden our economy in the months ahead.
        I appreciate the opportunity to join you here today and I
    hope to contribute constructively to your efforts to strengthen
    America's veteran workforce. I look forward to answering your
    questions. Thank you very much.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Greg Hamm Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        Mr. Hamm and Mr. Vang, I did not recognize your service,
    but you were in the Army so I am not supposed to. Just throwing
    that out there. Hey.
        Sorry. That was for you for sure, for sure.
        I now recognize Mr. LaBarbera, Jr., to deliver his opening
    statement.

                      STATEMENT OF GARY LABARBERA

        Mr. LaBarbera. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking
    Member Pappas, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for
    the opportunity to testify today on these critical issues. My
    name is Gary LaBarbera, Jr., and I currently serve as a
    business agent for Teamsters Local 282 in New York City as well
    as the Teamsters trade advisor to Helmets to Hardhats, working
    to create employment opportunities for veterans working as
    Teamsters in the building construction trades.
        I retired from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023 as a
    company first sergeant, Company A-125, following two
    deployments for Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and one for
    Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF). My experience is also one of
    a successful transition from military service to civilian union
    employment.
        Following my first deployment, I obtained my commercial
    driver's license and began driving a truck while serving in
    Reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my
    career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy
    construction industry in New York City.
        In total, The Teamsters represent 1.3 million members,
    including tens of thousands of veterans currently serving
    Reservists and military spouses, and we appreciate the
    subcommittee's attention to this issue. We appreciate the
    committee's longstanding bipartisan efforts to improve the
    lives of veterans and to ensure that when they transition they
    can access careers that allow them to take care of themselves
    and their families. It is my hope that from today's hearing
    that the takeaway I can leave you with is the role that the
    Teamsters have and continue to play in securing employment for
    veterans like me, thousands of current members and future
    transitioning veterans.
        As I mentioned, I am the Teamsters representative to the
    Helmets to Hardhats program, which provides opportunities
    within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the
    unionized building trades and has connected nearly 55,000
    veterans to good paying careers since 2003, 13,000 of which
    over the past 5 years. We are able to achieve this through many
    partnerships with trade unions, employers, Department of Labor,
    and many others. I have worked with countless veterans
    connecting them to local training centers and employers,
    affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as
    Teamsters in the construction industry.
        I have also had many discussions with our locals and
    training centers who are committed to aiding our Nation's
    veterans and seek them out while looking to grow their
    workforce. I view this program to be a model of how labor can
    play an essential role in securing good jobs and careers for
    veterans.
        The Teamsters' efforts in this area have been significant
    and wide-reaching. Over the years, our airline division
    membership realized that we were failing to transition military
    aircraft mechanics into civilian service. While we counted many
    veterans among the Teamster-represented pilots, we did not see
    this among the nearly 10,000 aircraft mechanics we represent,
    largely United Airlines. We led an effort to streamline the
    process in the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
    Reauthorization Bill, which the Federal Aviation Administration
    is currently working to complete. We thank Committee Chairman
    Bost for his leadership in securing that language.
        Trucking has long been a strong source of employment for
    veterans, but also an industry where opportunity presents
    itself to work with Congress. For example, we thank
    Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
    other members of the committee for their leadership on the
    Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act, which was
    signed into law last year and cut unnecessary red tape for CDL
    training.
        Uniquely, Teamster Locals across the country also operate
    our own free or no cost CDL training programs which frequently
    work with transitioning veterans. Our programs graduate highly
    skilled drivers with pathways to stable and well-paid
    employment. The Teamsters are very interested in expanding our
    programs and searching for ways to do so in conjunction with
    Congress. For example, through a large expansion of the
    Department of Transportation's Commercial Motor Vehicle
    Operator Safety Training, CMVOST, Competitive Grant Program.
    Last year the program received less than $4 million in total.
    By increasing the funding for this program substantially,
    Teamster Locals can secure these available funds to expand
    existing programs, increasing offerings, and open new programs
    where they currently do not exist.
        I should also note that the program is a perfect fit for
    today's discussion. The law already creates preference for
    programs which serve veterans, a requirement we strongly
    support. We are prioritizing expansion of CMVOST in ongoing
    surface transportation reauthorization discussions and hope for
    your support as negotiations on that bill continue.
        Finally, we know that members of this subcommittee and the
    full committee have put forth numerous proposals on veteran
    employment and will continue to do so. The Teamsters are fully
    committed to working with all members on this shared goal and
    it is our hope we can both work with you on advancing those
    priorities and that in shaping proposals, programs, and new
    initiatives that you consider the ability of the Teamsters to
    be a partner in those efforts. We are proud to represent the
    greatest range of industries and occupations of any labor
    organization in this country and have a demonstrated track
    record of commitment to our Nation's veterans.
        I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today
    and look forward to any questions you may have.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Gary LaBarbera Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, First Sergeant. Both your and Mr.
    Hamm's record--or, excuse me, written testimony will be entered
    into the hearing record.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Grant for 5 minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF JEROME GRANT

        Mr. Grant. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas,
    members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
    speak to you today. It is an honor to speak with you about
    something that is core to our work and essential to our
    Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage career
    pathways for America's veterans.
        My name is Jerome Grant and I serve as CEO of Universal
    Technical Institute, which includes UTI and Concord Career
    Colleges. Across our 32 campuses we focus entirely on hands-on,
    career-focused education in fields that keep this country
    running: automotive, diesel technology, aviation, welding,
    electrical, and energy trades. On the Concord side, nursing,
    dental professions, respiratory therapy, surgical technology,
    and other critical healthcare fields.
        Last year we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military
    affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our
    population. They are central to our mission. They bring
    discipline, maturity, problem solving, and leadership that
    elevate every classroom they are in. At UTI and Concord, we
    have built a support system around them: dedicated admissions,
    financial aid, counselors trained on VA benefits, military
    scholarships, salute to service tuition reductions, career
    coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies.
        Our measure of success is straightforward. Four out of five
    of UTI's graduates are employed in their field of study within
    a year. Our success is measured across the full employment
    cycle. We support graduates for life with placement assistance
    and continuing education that is complementary because, much
    like the military, they carry our name long after they leave
    ranks. With new campuses opening, this impact will continue to
    grow.
        One of the most powerful examples of what works is our
    partnership with the Department of Defense through Skill
    Bridge. UTI operates three on-base programs at Fort Bliss, Fort
    Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of the more than 3,500 Skill
    Bridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200 operate on
    bases.
        Our Skill Bridge programs offer free on-base housing for
    servicemembers, guardsmen, and revision reservists coming from
    other installations. It also is open to dependents because we
    support the whole military family, not just the servicemember.
    We are honored to be among them. We hope to see the base
    commands embrace these important transition opportunities for
    servicemembers.
        These programs cost the servicemembers nothing. Over just
    12 to 16 weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel
    technician training that leads to civilian jobs with starting
    wages above $50,000. There is no gap between leaving the
    military and entering the workforce. It is immediate with life-
    changing impact and we should be doing more of it.
        We also work closely with the United Service Organizations
    (USO) and U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hiring Our Heroes program to
    deliver transition workshops, career preparation, and direct
    connections to employers. In every industry we serve, whether
    it is the skilled trades or healthcare, the message from
    employers is the same: we need more talent. Veterans are an
    ideal fit for these skilled collared careers that value
    discipline, teamwork, and technical ability.
        We are proud to be recognized as a military-friendly school
    and veterans-friendly institution. What really matters is not
    the designation, it is outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring
    veterans leave us with strong credentials and even stronger
    careers.
        As for the opportunity to create more visibility into high-
    paying jobs and skilled trades, I could not agree more with
    what Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford, said just a couple weeks ago.
    The skill gap in the United States is no longer a distant
    warning. It is a present day crisis.
        When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technical
    jobs sitting unfilled it tells us one thing: our country must
    dramatically expand the training pipeline for skilled technical
    careers that keep America moving. Veterans are often well-
    suited for these skilled trade jobs.
        At Universal Technical Institute and Concord Career
    Colleges, we are focused every day on solving this problem.
    Across our nationwide campuses, UTI trains students in
    automotive, diesel, Electric Vehicle (EV), hybrid systems,
    welding, aviation maintenance, electrical, and energy
    technology, the very roles Ford and the entire transportation
    and mobility sectors urgently need.
        As part of UTI's success is our industry-leading
    partnerships and manufacturers allow us to offer both industry
    and company-specific training sought by our employers. We have
    manufacturer-specific advanced training programs with Ford,
    General Motors, Daimler Trucks, Cummins Engines, and several
    other incredible manufacturers.
        We are eager to expand these partnerships with leading
    manufacturers to meet the needs of the moment. That includes
    scaling EV and next generation propulsion training, creating
    more Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) aligned curriculum
    and growing career pathways, opening additional on-base
    programs, and working together to recruit more veterans, career
    changers, and young adults to these skilled collared careers.
        America cannot remain competitive without a strong
    technical workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate and
    partner----

        [The Prepared Statement Of Jerome Grant Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlemen's time has expired. Sir, your
    written testimony will be entered into the record.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Bostic for 5 minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF DAVID BOSTIC

        Mr. Bostic. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and
    members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
    testify today. My name is David Bostic and I am here on behalf
    of John Deere to share information about an issue that affects
    thousands of transition servicemembers every year, which is the
    successful reintegration into the civilian workforce.
        As you know, our Nation's veterans bring unmatched skills
    and resilience to their communities. Yet despite these
    strengths, many face significant challenges transitioning from
    military service. This issue hits me close to home. In 1997,
    fresh out of high school, I started work as a technician at a
    John Deere dealership in Lexington, Illinois. Except for the
    years spent in college and in the Marine Corps, I have spent my
    career supporting John Deere customers, first with a wrench in
    my hand and then in every single corporate role I have held at
    John Deere for the past 18 years.
        John Deere manufactures equipment and technology that
    enables our customers to produce the food, fiber, fuel, and
    infrastructure that supports a growing global population. To
    accomplish this, we employ over 30,000 employees across 16 U.S.
    states, including 250 employees in Chairman Van Orden's
    district. We do not do this alone. John Deere equipment is sold
    and serviced by a network of independently owned dealers, like
    United Ag and Turf and James R. Rosencrantz & Sons in
    Congressman Pappas' district. These are small businesses
    embedded in thousands of communities across the United States
    that employ an additional 50,000 people. Currently, these
    dealerships face a critical shortage of skilled workers,
    especially equipment technicians.
        John Deere has always been a staunch supporter of this
    country's military and its veterans. Over the past several
    years, we have taken greater strides to advocate and support
    for veterans. In 2019, a team of fellow veterans and I launched
    John Deere's military hiring program. It was designed to help
    connect dealers with technicians to close the skilled trades
    gap.
        Our goal was simple. We were set out to follow three key
    principles. First, be simple to navigate for servicemembers and
    dealerships. My team and I take on as much of the logistical
    and paperwork workload as possible. Second, add value to the
    servicemember and their potential employer. To do this, we
    provide free training to the candidates. This helps sets them
    up for success and it helps translate the skills that they have
    gained in the military into terms civilian employers can
    understand. Last, we stay focused on positive outcomes. Our
    goal is not charity or good press. Our goal is the successful
    employment of our participants.
        Since 2019, our dealers have hired approximately 800
    veterans, including hosting over 300 Skill Bridge interns,
    which has become a cornerstone of our military hiring program.
    Today, I urge the subcommittee to consider stronger
    partnerships between the government and employers to manage
    transition programs like Skill Bridge.
        Employers are on the front lines of the workforce
    development. We understand the skills needed, the gaps, and the
    potential that veterans can bring to their organizations. By
    involving employers directly, we can ensure programs are
    relevant and responsive to a rapidly changing labor market.
        Here are three key recommendations. First, formalize
    employer advisory councils to help shape transition programs
    like Skill Bridge, ensuring alignment with industry needs.
    Second, expand incentives for small and midsize employers to
    hire veterans and participate in programs like Skill Bridge. At
    John Deere, we are able to leverage our size and infrastructure
    to help our independent dealers navigate this process. Many
    small businesses would benefit from a similar model. Third,
    create a centralized employer portal to streamline veterans'
    benefits, track outcomes, and share best practices across
    industries. Well-intentioned businesses often struggle to
    navigate the existing systems and connect with the right
    resources.
        In closing, I ask for your leadership to create a future
    where the government, veterans, and employers have a clear path
    to create positive economic opportunities. It is often said
    that the best recruiting tool the military has is a
    servicemember that becomes a successful civilian.
        Thank you for your time and commitment to those who have
    worn the uniform.

        [The Prepared Statement Of David Bostic Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Mr. Bostic, your
    written testimony will be entered into the record.
        I am going to throw a little Semper Fi to you, too. Kilo
    Company, is that right?
        Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir, Kilo 324.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Al Anbar? Al Anbar?
        Mr. Bostic. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Van Orden. Garden spot, was not it? It was not at all.
    Yes.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Vang for 5 minutes. Before I
    say this, Mr. Vang, I have been to your facility and it is
    remarkable. What you guys do there is life-changing for so many
    people. It gets not just the veteran side. I am talking about
    some of the other folks that are there. They take tremendous
    pride in getting up and going to work. They are part of a
    community. They are supporting themselves and their family. I
    want to personally thank you for changing the lives of
    thousands of people. It is just remarkable.
        With that, sir, I yield to you for 5 minutes.

                         STATEMENT OF YING VANG

        Mr. Vang. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, members of the
    subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
    strengthening the veteran workforce through nontraditional
    career path in manufacturing. My name is Yang Vang. I am here
    on behalf of ORC Industries, a not-for-profit manufacturer
    dedicated to creating meaningful employment opportunities,
    especially for individual disabilities and for our veterans.
        Across the country, manufacturers are facing a workforce
    shortage. National Association of Manufacturers estimates by
    2030 up to 2.1 manufacturing positions will need to be filled.
    It is a readiness problem. It is an economic opportunity
    problem. For our veterans in particular, a missed chance to
    connect people who are ready to serve and work that truly
    matters.
        One of the most overlooked part of the sector is cut-and-
    sew manufacturing. It is a highly specialized trade, but not
    unlike many fields, it does not require a 4-year degree. It
    does require training, discipline, precision, and the ability
    to show up every day to do the job right.
        When a servicemember transitions out of the military, many
    of them are not looking for a traditional office job. They want
    to work. The work that they want is hands-on. They are used to
    being part of a team. They are motivated by mission and not a
    paycheck. They are exactly the conditions. These are the
    conditions, especially on a manufacturing floor: a shared
    mission, clear standards, and a culture where everyone's role
    matters.
        Unfortunately, significant barriers keep many veterans from
    considering these paths. First, there is a awareness problem.
    When servicemembers go through transition counseling,
    manufacturing, especially cut-and-sew, is rarely presented as a
    high-value, long-term career. Many veterans simply do not know
    these jobs exist. We can change that. I urge Congress to ensure
    that career transitions explicitly include a pathway to
    manufacturing, including trades like cut-and-sew.
        The Department of Labor register apprenticeship programs
    are powerful tools. We need to use it and we need to extend it.
    Provide additional training funding incentive for veterans in
    these role. These will increase the pipeline.
        Second, there are constraints in the GI Bill that can be
    used. Many veterans need short-term, skill-focused training
    programs, not 2 or 4 years in classroom. Right now it can be
    difficult to fully utilize the GI Bill. We need to condense
    training stackable credentials in trades like cut-and-sew
    manufacturing, expand eligibility, and flexibility.
        Third, the cost of training falls entirely on the employer.
    For a not-for-profit manufacturer, like ORC, and many other
    small mid-sized businesses, the desire to hire and train
    veterans is there. The margins are tight. Every dollar invested
    in training has to be carefully weighted. Congress can help by
    derisking the investments, targeted training grants, tax cut,
    tax credit, dedicated funding for veterans-focused
    apprenticeship, and work experience program.
        ORC's mission is to employ individuals with disability
    while strengthening America's manufacturing base, including
    creating opportunity for veterans. Our cut-and-sew lines
    produce critical defense textile product. Veterans working on
    these products can see a direct line between their work and the
    readiness of the next generation of servicemember.
        At ORC, we receive--employees receive an onsite training
    regardless of their educational background. We do not require a
    4-year degree. We require willingness to learn to work as a
    team to meet with high-quality standard. We promote from
    within.
        In closing, I want to emphasize three key points. First,
    cut-and-sew manufacturing, skilled trade more broadly, offers
    scalable, nontraditional career path for veterans that do not
    require a 4-year degree, but do offer dignity, purpose, and
    advancement. Second, better awareness of traditional programs,
    more flexibility. Third, when we do this, we do not just help
    veterans. We strengthen America's manufacturing capability, our
    national readiness. We close critical work gaps, support
    domestic production of defense textile, and other strategic
    goods, and demonstrate that this country still values skilled
    trades as a vital part of our economy.
        Thank you for your time and for your commitment to
    expanding opportunity for those who serve.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Ying Vang Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields. Thank you, Mr. Vang.
    Your written testimony will be entered into the record.
        For anybody that is wondering, in fact, everyone from the
    State of Wisconsin has the same tie. I know, right? It is kind
    of cool.
        All right. We will now proceed to questioning.
        The chair now recognizes Ranking Member Pappas for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Pappas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I want to thank our panelists for their testimony today. I
    think it is all important for us to consider as we think about
    how we match up the skills and potential of our veterans who
    are being separated from service with the opportunities that
    are out there and the need in so many critical sectors of our
    economy. I appreciate the work that you are all doing and how
    you are bringing together education and labor and the private
    sector to help solve this problem and to help make sure our
    veterans have everything they need to thrive.
        Mr. Bostic, if I can start with you. I want to thank you
    for what you have put on the table here today and talking a
    little bit more about your military hiring program that you
    stood up. It sounds like you did it in a way that provided the
    best opportunity for veterans to have access to it. I thank you
    for the feedback that you have provided in terms of how we can
    improve things with respect to veteran employment. You talked
    about employer advisory councils to, you know, better reflect
    the feedback from the private sector; incentives for smaller
    employers to participate, which absolutely is something that
    Congress needs to focus on. It should not just be big business
    that is able to be able to navigate these programs and create
    opportunities for veterans, because we know most of our
    employers fall into the small business category.
        I just want to see if I could get a little bit more detail
    from you on this central portal idea that you had. There are so
    many different programs out there with overlapping points of
    contact and employment coordinators with responsibilities that
    overlap with each other. Can you talk about the value in having
    this in one place and whether you think Congress needs to give
    better guidance to various departments to consolidate and
    delineate responsibilities and ensure that agencies are working
    together with the end goal of opening more doors to veterans?
        Mr. Bostic. Certainly, and thank you for the question. Yes,
    absolutely. A centralized portal, some single point of
    communication that streamlines exactly what benefits a veteran
    qualifies for or what benefits an employer would qualify for
    would be extremely helpful. It kind of mirrors how I run the
    program. With our military hiring program we are the single
    point of contact for the veterans and the servicemembers that
    come to us as well as the dealers.
        We do not get too heavily involved within the specific
    benefits. I am just the matchmaker between the veterans,
    servicemembers, and the dealerships. That process of having
    somebody that knows there is one phone call they can make,
    there is one email address they can send an email off to, or
    one website they can go to and get a single point of
    information is extremely helpful.
        Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks very much for your feedback.
        Mr. Hamm, if I can turn to you, thanks as well for talking
    a little bit about the career development focus that your
    company has had. I appreciate you relating some of the feedback
    from the American Trucking Association and talking about some
    of the legislation that we have considered and hopefully will
    consider soon to cut red tape and help more veterans secure
    employment in the trucking industry. I thank the ATA for
    supporting that legislation.
        Has the ATA seen any impact on a bill that we already
    passed and was signed into law last year, the Veteran
    Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act? Do you have any
    recommendations on other steps Congress should be taking to pay
    close attention to this issue in terms of implementation?
        Mr. Hamm. I thank the ranking member for his question. We
    have already seen impact across agencies, especially those that
    have multiple locations across multiple states. The old
    inability to have students access their GI Bill benefits just
    because you were in another State location of a corporation or
    an entity that had it already approved in another State was
    burdensome on the veterans trying to use their benefits. We
    have already seen, in just the short year that it has been in
    effect, we have already seen progress in students having access
    to funding through their GI Bill benefits to get quality
    education at these quality training providers.
        Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks for that feedback. That is
    important.
        Mr. LaBarbera, if I can talk to you a little bit about CDL
    as well. You mentioned in your written testimony about the bad
    actors that are out there. Can you talk a little bit more about
    the impact that this has on the lives of student veterans and
    what we should be paying attention to make sure that there are
    some guardrails and that we are protecting, ultimately,
    veterans to be able to get access to the right programming so
    that they can get the skills they need to have good-paying
    jobs?
        Mr. LaBarbera. Yes. Thank you. Anywhere where somebody can
    gain a few dollars, I feel there are people out there that will
    do that. There are all these programs where they will bring a
    veteran in, they will spit them out with a license, and then
    you are on your own. That is not what we do as the Teamsters
    and the programs that we work with is you come in with us, we
    train you, and then you go into a good career that has--
    sustaining for your family and medical benefits and to be able
    to provide for your family for your whole life.
        Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much. I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. Ciscomani from Arizona.
        Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Grant, welcome.
    Thanks for being here, sir.
        You know, with Universal Technical Institute's headquarters
    and major campus being in Arizona, you connect firsthand with
    veterans that are looking for technical and vocational training
    programs. We talked a little bit about in the previous panel on
    the demand and the interest from veterans being way, way higher
    on the 4-year degree versus some of these vocational programs
    that, quite frankly, they are in a higher need, I was kidding
    around in the last panel, than any of the other maybe
    professions out there. More on the technical side, but yet we
    see 3-1/2 percent or so of the interest in that.
        That is a challenge that I think we need to take as a
    society overall to say how do we promote that more, especially
    among our veterans that I think are eager to get in there. Most
    of the people that go to these programs graduate debt-free and
    they start making a good living, definitely more than what I
    was making with a bachelor's degree in political science right
    after college and with student loan debt as well.
        What--so I am trying to get a gauge here. What policy or
    administrative barriers impede veterans from enrolling in
    technical programs like this? How can Congress help expand
    access to high-wage technical careers?
        Mr. Grant. Sure. What a great question. It is come up a
    couple of different times in the conversations here, so I am
    glad it is part of the conversation.
        First of all, the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458, starts
    to address some of the barriers that currently stand in the way
    of people picking these sort of careers. I think the best way
    to think about it is from ford of a high level. You are coming
    out of the military and you want to access your GI Bill. You
    can either go to a 4-year school or you could go to a technical
    school. Not every technical school and not every program in
    every technical school and not every technical school that has
    hybrid or online programs. Which one sounds easier for you to
    make a decision?
        Mr. Ciscomani. Yes. No, I agree. Can you tell me why that
    is?
        Mr. Grant. Well, because it is the way the statutes are
    written.
        Mr. Ciscomani. The statutes are written that only certain
    technical programs apply?
        Mr. Grant. To certain ways and certain accredited
    institutions can go or you could go to every 4-year school.
    When you are coming out and you want to take advantage of the
    GI Bill because it is well-earned and you are going to be a
    great person out there in the world, there is just a lot of
    having to think it through that happens when you are thinking
    about taking----
        Mr. Ciscomani. It almost feels like the system is guiding
    our veterans or anyone to go into that 4-year degree route
    versus anything else. It almost seems like discouraging to go a
    different route.
        Mr. Grant. Well, that gets to there is really two issues,
    that gets to the second issue, which is there is a very
    longstanding cultural bias----
        Mr. Ciscomani. Yes.
        Mr. Grant [continuing]. to go to 4-year schools. We have
    153 career counselors on high school campuses. There are
    hundreds of high schools that will not allow our students--our
    career counselors on their campuses because they do not want
    their kids to go to technical schools. We need to continue to
    break that down and get more programs into the high schools,
    into the community colleges, and then cleanup some of the
    language that makes it easier for servicemembers.
        Mr. Ciscomani. I am all for that. I am running out of time.
    I cannot really see my time, but I feel that it is coming.
    1:45. I am sitting in that one angle that you cannot see either
    clock here. It is not that my eyesight is that bad, I promise.
        I want to continue this conversation with you. You know, we
    had a veteran, actually a plumber that came over to our house
    and when he was leaving and we looking at the invoice, I told
    my wife we are in the wrong business here. You know, this is a
    good-paying job and for our veterans, we love that this is
    happening and we need to encourage more people to get in there
    as well.
        I will switch real quick with the time that I have left on
    CDL. Mr. Hamm, if I can ask you this. My dad who, you know,
    talk about the stigma and all this. My family, as I think some
    of you know this, immigrated from Mexico. When my parents were
    like, what do you want your son to be? Some careers were not
    what they would have preferred. Now looking back it is like,
    you know, it could have been, you know, for many people that
    perspective changing.
        My dad had a CDL. He was a bus driver most of the time that
    we have been in this amazing Nation. The trucking industry
    reports a high need for commercial drivers, certified drivers,
    and highlights that 12.9 percent of veterans already hold the
    CDL. Right? I went one of the training sites and they focus
    heavily in recruiting veterans as well. Can you talk a little
    bit about that? What can the VA do better here in supporting
    and training these programs and the GI Bill with the VR&E
    program?
        Mr. Hamm. I cannot really speak specifically to the VR&E,
    but I can tell you that, you know, interest in our--in the
    supply chain, interest in commercial driver's license is not
    just a--you know, it is a security issue, it is a national
    security issue. This is an area that we have to spend money on,
    we have to focus on. I think you know, multiple people on the
    panel have talked about CMVOST and the appropriate nature in
    which we fund----
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
        The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from Illinois.
        Ms. Ramirez. Thank you from the great State of Illinois.
    Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank all of you for being here
    with us today. Really appreciate the work that you do to ensure
    that our veterans are getting good-paying, living wage jobs so
    that they can retire with dignity.
        Look, the work that we do in this committee is incredibly
    important and, frankly, it is our responsibility to ensure that
    we are safeguarding and protecting the full benefits our
    veterans earn and deserve. Access to quality education is one
    of those promises we have made to veterans and it is our job
    every single day to deliver for them.
        However, in recent years student veterans have been
    targeted by bad actors, folks who are seeking to enrich
    themselves by exploiting veterans' GI Bill benefits. I find
    that unacceptable. I have been talking about it since I got
    here to Congress 3 years ago. Veterans should be able to choose
    an educational program that meets their needs while being
    confident that their choice is going to result in high-quality
    education that ultimately results in good paying jobs. When a
    student veteran is defrauded by bad faith actors, it is only
    the right to be able to have a recourse to restore their GI
    Bill benefits.
        That is why almost 3 years ago I introduced the Student
    Veteran Benefits Restoration Act of 2025. The bill would ensure
    that veterans who have been victims of fraudulent practices by
    predatory institutions of higher education receive the
    educational benefits that they were entitled to so they could
    actually graduate and get the jobs that they deserve. We
    actually passed this bill out of the House with bipartisan
    support and with a lot of support from the chairman here last
    Congress.
        I want to make sure that I, for the record, note that I am
    urging my colleagues to support the bill as a first step to
    protecting our veterans from this fraudulent behavior.
        Now, I want to talk about 2017. Congress made a deliberate
    decision to exclude nondegree independent study programs from
    GI Bill eligibility due to the rampant fraud and exploitation
    in nondegree independent study programs.
        Mr. Grant, I wanted to ask you a question. What do you
    think in your opinion has changed now to justify allowing
    nondegree independent study programs to use the GI Bill
    benefits when we know that they are still being exposed to the
    same risks that we saw back then? What has changed for you?
        Mr. Grant. Well, thank you for the opportunity to respond
    to that. Number one, I will not pretend to be the voice of an
    entire educational industry. I can speak very highly for
    Universal Technical Institute and its outcomes.
        I also would like to follow up on one of your other
    questions around the number of employed veterans that are out
    in the market after 6 months because your statistic is
    accurate, which gets to the notion of quality of education, but
    it is not complete. The reason is, is that because the military
    benefits are 36 months, many of our veterans, 3,300 we educated
    last year, go on and do another program. Once they graduate
    from one program, say it takes a year, they will go on and do
    another 6-month or 9-month program. They do not get credit for
    going to school for that other program.
        Anyway, so we pride ourselves on their outcomes and the
    high degree of integrity around the industry alignment. We are
    very proud of what we put out in the market in terms of veteran
    graduates.
        Ms. Ramirez. That is great. Let me ask you, I am really
    concerned about bad actors and veterans' education. I think you
    are as well and I know from the work that you do. I guess my
    question is like what are we doing to ensure that we are
    preventing these risks from continuing to happen?
        Let me, I have a little bit of time so I just need to get
    to the next question.
        Mr. Grant. Sure.
        Ms. Ramirez. If I can, I will come back to you.
        Mr. Grant. Sure.
        Ms. Ramirez. Mr. Bostic, your company participated in the
    Skill Bridge, which has employment rates above 90 percent.
    Meanwhile, we are seeing the consequences of programs like VET
    TEC overpromising and undelivering. Mr. Bostic, what should the
    VA in Congress be looking for to distinguish high-quality
    training providers from those who offer training without real
    career opportunities at the end, where they end up having to go
    to other programs and other programs?
        Mr. Bostic. That is a fantastic question. Thank you. I will
    allude to what is been mentioned several times in this
    testimony already is to track outcomes, especially in the
    skilled trades where we have such a deficit across all
    industries from transportation, manufacturing, repair, all of
    those. There is really no reason why a training institution or
    a company would not be able to put somebody through a training
    program and get them employed. For me, when looking at any
    program, and especially how I look at our own program and
    evaluate its success, is to look at, you know, how many
    veterans, how many servicemembers are we actually getting
    employed?
        Ms. Ramirez. Let me ask one last question in 7 seconds. Do
    you believe restoring benefits to veterans who are defrauded
    would be beneficial for higher employment rates and veteran
    career progression?
        Mr. Bostic. I believe so, it would, yes. Thank you.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
        The chair now recognizes Representative King-Hinds from the
    Northern Mariana Islands.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        It is not too often where I sit in front of folks who have
    shared their successful transition from military life to
    civilian life and so I want to start with you, Mr. LaBarbera.
    Thank you for your service. Congratulations on your retirement.
        You stated in your testimony that, you know, that journey
    has been successful for you. I just really want to hear more
    about it to better understand where the gaps are and how we can
    look at the system that we have in terms of policy to formulate
    some of these action plans.
        Mr. LaBarbera. Sure. For my experience, I came out and I
    was fortunate enough to have an opportunity in my reserve
    status. I think that the big gap is education for the young
    servicemember that comes out. I know, you know, there is TAP in
    the services. There is a lot of different things that are out
    there, but there is so much information that comes out. From
    veterans that I talk to on a regular basis, what I see is they
    are just looking for opportunities on things to do and they are
    kind of, you know, I will use the analogy of throwing spaghetti
    at a wall and seeing what sticks sort of. I think just a little
    more education and a little more one-on-one time with them,
    maybe during that transition period on what is a viable option
    for them.
        One thing that I have heard a lot today from everybody here
    is, you know, a skilled trade is really--you know, it is not
    something that people should be looking down on. It is a great
    career path, whether it be with the Teamsters or any other, in
    my opinion, organized union trade. That is something that
    people should be striving for.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Did you actively seek out the opportunities
    that you have now or was this something that was connected to
    you through some nonprofit that directly deals with the VA?
        Mr. LaBarbera. No, I was not through any nonprofit. It was
    a simple referral process. Somebody said, would you like to,
    you know, come work here and drive a truck? I said, sure. Then
    after my second deployment, when I had returned home, I had the
    opportunity through referrals to join Local 282 and begin my
    excellent story.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. Thank you for that.
        My next question is to Mr. Bostic or Mr. Vang. You both
    spoke about incentivizing companies and I wanted to kind of
    further flesh out what that would look like in terms of policy,
    so.
        Mr. Vang. I believe that, you know, it is really just
    opening up, you know, the door for veterans here, meaning that,
    you know, helping. You know, a lot of the costs, we as the
    employer take on that burden, especially with the training. For
    us at ORC, you know, I do have tuition reimbursement program
    for our employees, but the goal here is getting them trained,
    getting them in, taking them through the process. It costs a
    lot of money from my time, all of the management time, to the
    training time, to the employer's time, to the lead person time.
    Having incentive out there to help employers, especially when
    our budget is tight, would be beneficial to open that door.
        Ms. King-Hinds. What would that look like specifically?
        Mr. Vang. I mean, average, if you really look at it, you
    know, cost of training is between 3-to $5,000 per individual,
    an employee. You know, being able to take on that burden with
    subsidies coming in would really, really help us expand that
    door for all of our veterans.
        Ms. King-Hinds. Okay. I have about a minute left. Mr.
    Bostic, can you chime in on some of those suggestions that you
    stated during your testimony, specifically the incentive part?
        Mr. Bostic. Yes, ma'am. The--I will echo what was said
    earlier with the biggest--one of the biggest upfront costs is
    training. Remarkably very similar dollar figures on the
    equipment technician side.
        In addition to wages, the training is one of the largest
    upfront costs. We are able to discount, provide for free a lot
    of our internal training to servicemembers. I know the
    dealerships that have hired our servicemembers, they provide a
    lot of training up front as well. Several of our dealers will
    even sponsor veterans to go on to an accredited community
    college, an actual diesel tech program, and do not require the
    servicemembers to use their own GI Bill benefits to do so.
        Ms. King-Hinds. All right. Thank you for that. I yield my
    time.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields.
        The chair now recognizes Mr. McGarvey from the great State
    of Kentucky.
        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. LaBarbera, I wanted to start with you today. You warned
    about predatory CDL programs targeting veterans. What
    safeguards should Congress put in place to make sure that GI
    Bill funds only--and supports high-quality training providers?
        Mr. LaBarbera. I am not sure I have an exact recommendation
    of what safeguards could go in place, but I think really
    looking at them and if you look at, like I said before,
    something that leads into a career and not just a CDL program,
    I think, you know, focusing the time and resources on that, I
    think will be beneficial.
        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. Mr. Bostic, John Deere's Skill
    Bridge program has already shown how veterans can move straight
    into dealership careers where employers are directly involved.
    Building on that success, what should VA do to formalize
    employer advisory councils and make it easier for small
    businesses to take part in Skill Bridge?
        Mr. Bostic. I do not have a good answer. It is--it is a--
    honestly, it is a complicated issue as far as getting the right
    people involved at the right time for the right purposes.
    Again, I do not have a ton of interaction with the VA benefits.
    As I said earlier, I connect them with dealers. It is just in
    my own personal experience at trade shows or career shows or
    events similar to this one, when you have employers together
    talking about the gaps that they need filled, best practices,
    and especially when they have the ear of legislatures in the
    same area, those sort of conversations foster a lot of change
    and a lot of growth. Anything along those same similar lines
    would be beneficial.
        Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. I think, you know, what you all
    are saying is what we want as well, right? Veterans do not just
    need programs. Veterans need jobs. We got to make sure that
    programs, even if they are well-intention programs up here, are
    actually leading to veterans getting jobs. We know that
    employer-focused pathways work. We know that short-term
    education programs need accountability. We know that there
    needs to be transparency from the VA, especially how they are
    implementing the Dole Act and Rudisill. You know, I want to
    make sure that transparency is there, accountability is there,
    and that when the rubber meets the road and our veterans who
    are motivated, who are skilled, are coming into civilian life,
    that we are able to help with that transition from the military
    to getting a good job, so they can take care of themselves,
    take care of their families, just as they took care of us when
    they have the uniform on.
        Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
        What has come up repeatedly is the education industrial
    complex. That is what that is. It has essentially turned into a
    racket. Let us be honest. We got these kids going to school.
    They get out with hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of
    debt and zero ability to be employed. That is just wrong and it
    has got to stop.
        You know, I guess I could say I have a complicated
    relationship with higher education because, you know, we need
    to have these schools. You got to remember someone did go to a
    4-year institution and then maybe for a couple extra years and
    they got a master's in electrical engineering, but then they
    handed the plans to a dude that went to your training program
    who did the wiring. There is room for everybody here. We just
    got to understand that when we are out of foot soldiers, you
    cannot win a war. That is who you guys are representing just to
    be super clear.
        Mr. Bostic, you made a very profound statement. One of the
    best recruiting tools is a highly employed and happy veteran. I
    need you to talk to your folks and I appreciate that
    tremendously. I want to know your Touch to the Transition
    Assistance Program. When is the last time your people have been
    on a military base and speaking to folks that are Active Duty
    that are on their way out of the service?
        Mr. Bostic. I make it a point to be to as many on-base
    career fairs as possible. We are a corporate sponsor of several
    organizations, like Recruit Military, Hiring Our Heroes, and 50
    Strong, and participate in them. Every time that I am on a
    military base, I make it a point to go and talk to the
    Transition Assistance Office to make sure that they are aware
    of our program and our benefits.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got to--me and Chris got to make
    sure that you get there more often and that door is open for
    you.
        Mr. Vang, have you guys ever been over to Fort McCoy or to
    Volk Field to talk to the folks that are separating?
        Mr. Vang. Yes, actually, I am actually stationed right at
    Fort McCoy.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
        Mr. Vang. I do work closely with the team there. Again, you
    know, especially in our manufacturing. It is actually really,
    really difficult. It is a skill set.
        Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
        Mr. Vang. Okay. It is tough.
        Mr. Van Orden. If you guys do not know, they make our white
    hats, which is kind of cool. The Dixie cup, that is what your
    brains call it, I know.
        Mr. Grant, what is your Touch to TAP program?
        Mr. Grant. We have 26 employees who are former military
    that are on 26 bases around the country giving career
    counseling seminars on a regular basis.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Let us make that 50.
        Mr. Grant. All right.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay? We got a lot of bases.
        Mr. Grant. I would also like to say I did not get the memo
    on the tie. I am from the great State of Wisconsin.
        Mr. Van Orden. Where are you from in Wisconsin?
        Mr. Grant. I was born in Milwaukee, raised in Racine,
    University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) graduate.
        Mr. Van Orden. Oh, really? Okay. Well, let us get the memo
    out next time.
        First Sergeant, what is your Touch to the TAP program?
        Mr. LaBarbera. Our Touch is through the Helmets to Hardhats
    program, where there are regional managers that visit every
    site that is available to a member base anytime they are there.
    I think it is roughly 25,000 veterans they touch on a regular
    basis----
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
        Mr. LaBarbera [continuing]. that contact Helmets to
    Hardhats seeking a career.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Mr. Hamm.
        Mr. Hamm. Thank you for the question. Yes, we are on the
    bases every single week. We have got a team of people that
    travel the country every single week and are attending the TAP
    program briefings and actively trying to recruit folks to come
    to our great industry.
        Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We got some of my fellows back there
    with those funny hats on. We got to make sure that you guys are
    connected to our Veterans Service Organizations (VSO), also. It
    is critically important. We need the American Legion, we need
    the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. (VFW), Disabled Vets.
    She is in the back corner hiding from DVA. We got to make sure
    that you guys are connected. As Mr. McGarvey said before he
    departed, it is about jobs.
        We have an issue with the Skill Bridge program, and we are
    trying to make sure--I mean, we have paid for this thing, and
    we are kind of getting the Heisman once in a while from the
    Active-Duty component. We are going to start working with those
    cats, because if we are not filling those billets or if they
    are going to a certain pay grade, which they are, you know,
    that is not Okay. We will be working--I am also on the House
    Armed Services Committee. We bring this up because we got to
    get those people into these programs that we have because they
    are critically important.
        With that, I am going to yield back.
        I want to thank you all for coming to discuss veterans'
    employment. It is critically important, as I just said. It is
    clear that this is an invaluable program for our veterans and
    something--we need more guarantees for jobs for our veterans
    when they get out. I hope to continue working with Chris, my
    friend, and the rest of the committee to improve the
    administration of these approved apprenticeship programs and
    enhance them in private sector and nonprofit sector to continue
    to help future generations.
        With that, I would like to yield Mr. Pappas for any
    comments you may have.
        Mr. Pappas. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the
    witnesses all attending today and for your testimony. I know it
    takes a lot out of your day to be able to travel here, but we
    benefit from having your voice in this conversation.
        We need to be able to track skill growth, income, and
    career building within the industry long term to truly see if
    these employment programs that we have been talking about today
    are successful for veterans. I took notice that almost all the
    written testimony contained references to TAP. Getting
    employment wrong, especially during a transition out of the
    military or between duty statuses for our National Guard and
    Reserve component servicemembers, put the veteran and their
    family at risk for negative outcomes like housing insecurity,
    food insecurity, substance abuse, and suicidal ideations. That
    is why we need to ensure that veterans are protected from scams
    and programs that waste their time. TAP was not the subject of
    this hearing, but it is a crucial piece of this discussion. I
    hope to see improvements on the program in the upcoming
    National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), including a TAP
    curriculum for spouses and families.
        I was disappointed to read in the American Legion statement
    that the Department of Defense recently declined to meet with
    them on TAP, and I hope to continue rigorous oversight of that
    program with you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you very much for everyone's contributions and I
    yield back.
        Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
        I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5
    legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
    extraneous materials. Without objection, so ordered.
        This hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

    =======================================================================

                             A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

    =======================================================================

                        Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                                  ----------

                      Prepared Statement of Kenneth Smith

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished
    Members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear
    before you today to discuss how we can strengthen the Veteran
    workforce. Accompanying me today is Chantile Stovall, Acting Executive
    Director, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) Service.
        As critical members of the workforce, empowering Veterans
    continuously proves to be a catalyst for revitalizing and driving
    America forward. Congress has authorized several training and education
    programs to accomplish this and ensure Veterans have impactful civilian
    careers.

    Service Member Support

        The Transition Assistance Program (TAP) provides support for
    transitioning Service members through an interagency effort led by the
    Department of War (DoW), Department of Labor, and the Small Business
    Administration, which is supported by VA and other Federal agencies.
    Every year, TAP prepares about 200,000 Service members to return to the
    civilian world. As part of the general 5-day TAP curriculum, there is a
    1-day mandatory VA Benefits and Services course that covers many VA
    benefits and services available to Service members, their families, and
    caregivers. TAP serves as an important opportunity for introducing
    transitioning Service members to their education benefits, but it is
    only one touchpoint. As all Members on the Dais know, it takes several
    touches over a period and through a variety of media to commit this
    critical information to memory. Further, if a Veteran is not intending
    to use their education benefits immediately upon separation, they are
    less inclined to see the benefit of the information VA is providing
    through TAP.

    Transition Support

        Understanding these challenges, VA launched the VA Solid Start
    (VASS) Program in 2019 to make early, consistent, and caring contact
    with newly separated Veterans.\1\ VASS requires VA staff to call all
    eligible Veterans at three key stages during their first year after
    separation from the armed forces. By doing this, VASS aims to increase
    the likelihood that recently separated Veterans will get connected to
    VA earlier and utilize VA benefits and services. VA also sends
    transitioning Service members comprehensive employment information
    through VA's early communications initiative which begins 1 year before
    separation.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ On October 17, 2022, VASS was signed into law (https://
    www.Congress.gov/117/plaws/publ205/PLAW-117publ205.pdf), permanently
    authorizing VA to expand VASS with DoD coordination.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Post Separation Support

        Once a Veteran determines they wish to utilize their VA education
    benefits to upskill or improve their employability, VA has two pillar
    programs--VR&E and the GI Bill. For Veterans who are eligible for these
    programs, they can access supportive services with proven outcomes.

    VR&E Engagement

        VR&E services and assistance are delivered through five tracks of
    service. Four of the five tracks focus on employment and employment-
    related services with Service members and Veterans. Across all tracks,
    Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors help Veterans and Service members
    develop a highly individualized plan, monitor their progress, and
    provide professional counseling and support. Service members and
    Veterans are also supported by Employment Coordinators whose role is to
    assist in direct job placement and sustainment.
        VR&E leverages programs such as the Non-Paid Work Experience which
    enable participants to bridge the experience gap by gaining training
    and practical job experience. VR&E also includes use of on-the-job
    training (OJT) and registered apprenticeships to expand employment
    opportunities for Veterans. Through these initiatives, VR&E supports
    Veterans in developing marketable skills and trades via non-college
    degree programs with hands-on training experiences that offer quick
    entry into the labor market. Occupational programs in this area include
    contracting specialists, truck drivers, plumbers, and many more.
        Veterans who complete a program of rehabilitation show
    significantly better outcomes compared to those who stop participating,
    such as higher employment rates (74 percent vs. 40 percent) and greater
    income earnings ($90,000 vs. $60,000). Additionally, their reliance on
    supplemental programs decreased (35 percent vs. 58 percent).\2\ In
    Fiscal Year 2025, VR&E exceeded its previous record with 10,527
    employment outcomes out of 19,372 positive outcomes for Veterans
    exiting the program.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \2\ Fiscal Year 2023 Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E)
    Longitudinal Study (https://www.benefits.va.gov/VOCREHAB/docs/FY2023-
    longitudinal-study.pdf)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Utilizing Education Benefits

        Separate from VR&E, VA's pathway for Veterans to develop skills to
    enter the workforce is the GI Bill, which allows for non-4-year
    programs including an array of vocational or technical training,
    including certificate programs, licensing and certification exams, and
    OJT and registered apprenticeship opportunities. During Fiscal Year
    2025, 15,290 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries began training at
    vocational/technical schools and 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries
    began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same time period,
    78,382 individuals began training in undergraduate or graduate degree
    programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
        GI Bill entitlement can also be used to cover the costs of licenses
    and certifications required for certain jobs following completion of
    these educational programs, even if the individual does not pass the
    test. During Fiscal Year 2025, 3,541 Veterans received GI Bill benefits
    for test reimbursement.
        VA can also pay for new employee training in vocational fields
    through approved OJT and registered apprenticeship programs.
    Individuals who qualify receive a monthly payment for living expenses
    that varies based on the GI Bill program used. However, as demonstrated
    by the numbers above, fewer than 20 percent of Veterans this Fiscal
    Year have opted to use their GI bill benefit to pursue a non-degree
    option. VA recognizes that this is in part an awareness issue, and the
    agency will do more to ensure Veterans are informed of all the
    potential uses of the GI bill entitlement and explain how an
    apprenticeship can be a better option because it would equip
    individuals with the skills needed to more quickly secure employment.

    The Importance of Partnerships

        One area which continues to expand is our internal and external
    partnerships. This starts with VA identifying high-demand career
    pathways and partnering with organizations that can further the growth
    for the American workforce. In the past, VA partnered with the
    Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics to compile lists of
    high demand occupations for the implementation of the Veterans
    Retraining Assistance Program (VRAP) and the Veterans Rapid Retraining
    Assistance Program (VRRAP). VA will also continue to work with DOL-VETS
    to develop outreach and marketing to employers who may be able to
    expand their workforce through Veteran-focused recruitment. VA would
    seek to reduce employer apprehension of administrative burden by
    providing marketing tools for use in conjunction with their recruiting
    efforts and demonstrating current tools to manage benefits, thereby
    demonstrating how employers can support Veterans using Post 9/11 GI
    Bill apprenticeship and OJT benefits. One example is VA's partnership
    with private companies such as the International Business Machines
    Corporation (IBM) to scale the IBM SkillsBuild program access to
    certifications and training in high-demand industries. This free,
    credentialed online program gives veterans access to information
    technology (IT) skills and builds pathways to meet current
    technological demands in rapidly expanding fields like Data Analytics,
    Cybersecurity, Artificial Intelligence, and Cloud Computing. After
    successful completion, all participants earn IBM-branded digital
    certificates to certify their relevant skills in emerging technologies
    and related proficiencies to prepare them for successful careers in
    technology. Although participation in the IBM SkillsBuild program for
    Fiscal Year 2025 is still underway, we have already seen an increase in
    participants from 12,215 to 14,368 learners to date. Individuals can
    learn more about this program at https://www.va.gov/education/other-va-
    education-benefits/ibm-skillsbuild-program/.
        Internally, VA partners with DoD to offer the Warrior Training
    Advancement Course (WARTAC), a national-level VBA training program for
    active-duty Service members seeking employment as VA claims processors.
    VA has successfully trained 2,893 transitioning Veterans through the
    WARTAC program since its inception in 2014, and most graduates remain
    employed with VA today, many of whom have transitioned into leadership
    positions within the organization.
        Other key initiatives aimed at helping Veterans who face employment
    challenges are the Special Employer Incentives and Veteran Employment
    Through Technology Education Courses (VET-TEC) programs, which provide
    job training and experience with little or no risk for employers.
    Through both of these programs, VA maintains partnerships with
    employers such as Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Department of
    Transportation, Social Security Administration, and many more.

    Challenges and Opportunities

        VA acknowledges the Nation's rapidly evolving labor market demands
    a nimble workforce, and Veterans are uniquely equipped to meet many of
    our employers' emerging needs. However, to achieve this and ensure
    Veterans are informed of all their education and training benefits, VA
    must reassess how we communicate.
        Additionally, substantive changes enacted by Congress in its
    reauthorization of the VET TEC program are leading to considerable
    implementation delays, due to the need for multiple system and business
    process changes required to manage entitlement and payments. Given the
    defined opportunity window for VET TEC 2.0, with the program only being
    authorized until September 30, 2027, VA is looking at low-code solution
    options and expects to have a viable solution identified in Quarter 1,
    Fiscal Year 2026.
        Despite the IT delays, VA has made forward progress with other VET
    TEC 2.0 requirements. For example, VA has revised the training provider
    and student applications, updated training provider and expert
    credentials checklists, and drafted training and communications
    documents.
        Another area of concern is our limited engagement with
    transitioning Service members during TAP courses. The 2019 National
    Defense Authorization Act authorizes 1 day for VA to cover health care
    and benefits during the 1 week of TAP. Education, Personalized Career
    Planning and Guidance (PCPG), and VR&E are covered in the curriculum.
    But a single day, which amounts to 6 classroom hours after lunch and
    breaks, is a very condensed time period for Service members to receive
    such a large amount of information. We regularly revise our curriculum
    based on Service member feedback to regularly improve the Service
    member experience within the allotted time.

    Conclusion

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, this concludes my
    statement. We would be happy to answer any questions you or other
    Members of the Subcommittee may have.

                        Prepared Statement of Greg Hamm

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                      Prepared Statement of Gary LaBarbera

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and members of the
    Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on
    ``Strengthening the Workforce of Veterans in America.''. The
    International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 1.3 million
    hardworking people in the United States, Canada, and Puerto Rico, in
    nearly every congressional district, including tens of thousands of
    veterans, currently serving reservists, and military spouses.
        I currently serve as a Business Agent for Teamster Local 282 in New
    York City, as well as the Teamsters Trade Advisor to Helmets to
    Hardhats, working to create employment opportunities for Veterans
    working as Teamsters in the Building and Construction Trades. I retired
    from the Marine Corps Reserves in 2023, as Company First Sergeant,
    Company A, 1st Battalion, 25th Marine Regiment, following two
    deployments in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and one in support of
    Operation Enduring Freedom.
        My experience is also one of a successful transition from military
    service to civilian employment. Following my first deployment, I
    received my Commercial Drivers License and began driving a truck while
    serving in reserve status. Following my second deployment, I began my
    career as a Teamster in Local 282, driving trucks in the heavy
    construction industry in New York City.
        The most important message I hope to leave the Subcommittee with is
    the value and the promise of a union contract and union career to our
    Nation's veterans--and the ability and dedication of the Teamsters
    union to secure such a career.
        Not only do I come from a union household, but the strong wages,
    working conditions, and opportunities provided by union jobs, and union
    training programs have provided real careers for hundreds of thousands
    of my brothers and sisters leaving the Armed Services.
        The Teamsters have long been heavily engaged in these efforts -
    both creating and operating our own training programs, working in
    conjunction with other labor organizations, and advocating for common-
    sense legislative proposals in Congress.

    Helmets to Hard Hats

        The Teamsters have long been proud participants in Helmets to
    Hardhats (H2H), a national program that assists veterans, transitioning
    service members, and Guard and Reserve members in finding opportunities
    within registered apprenticeship programs and careers in the unionized
    building trades. Since 2003, H2H has connected nearly 55,000 veterans
    to good-paying, stable careers providing solid middle class lives for
    the families of the brave young men and women who served our country.
        H2H collaborates with the 14 major building trades unions under
    North America's Building Trades Unions, nearly 80,000 contractors
    nationwide, the Department of Labor Veterans' Employment and Training
    Service, Hire Our Heroes, the National Guard Association of the United
    States, and the Army Reserve's Public-Private Partnership. These
    partnerships ensure veterans aren't just placed in jobs but launched
    into meaningful careers that value their discipline and leadership.
        While working with Helmets to Hardhats, I have worked with
    countless veterans connecting them to locals, training centers, and
    employers, affording them opportunities to begin well paid careers as
    Teamsters in the construction industry. I have also had many
    discussions with our locals and training centers who are committed to
    aiding our Nation's veterans and seek them out while looking to grow
    their workforce.

    Commercial Drivers Licensure

        Across the country, Teamsters local unions in 20 states have
    established training trusts or apprenticeship programs to train and
    certify our members and other workers as CDL drivers, as well as
    offering training in hazmat, passenger, school bus and doubles/triples
    endorsements--all at little or even no cost to students. Our programs
    graduate CDL holders who not only have the actual skills needed to be
    safe drivers but also obtain a pathway to employment, and we are proud
    to have trained many veterans through these programs.
        Not only are these programs high-quality, but they serve as an
    important bulwark against predatory CDL programs persist across the
    country. As the Commercial Vehicle Training Association (CVTA) stated
    in a recent letter to Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, ``the
    continued presence of non-compliant entities on the TPR [training
    provider registry] allows these bad actors to offer substandard
    training services, resulting in students paying out-of-pocket for
    instruction that does not meet Federal standards. These students are
    often left unable to pass the CDL skills test, obtain employment, or
    operate safely; creating a significant risk to all who share the
    road.'' It benefits no one to generate ``graduates'' who can't pass a
    skill tests or, if they can, are not able to operate safely.
        Regrettably, these programs have been to know to target
    transitioning veterans, taking advantage of both their personal
    resources and resources available through the G.I bill. As discussed
    later, the pervasiveness of these programs necessitates both
    congressional interventions broadly, and specifically in support of
    high-quality programs like those offered by Teamsters locals.

    Transition Assistance Program

        The International Brotherhood of Teamsters includes 315 Local
    Unions throughout all 50 States, and represent a vast array of
    industries, we sometimes refer to as workers ``from A to Z, Airline
    Pilots to Zookeepers''. Our nation-wide, multi-industry structure puts
    the Teamsters Union in a strong position to assist those who may be
    entering the workforce for the first time or re-entering the workforce
    after a long absence. Veterans have skills that are in demand and many
    military skills can be parlayed into family sustaining careers as
    Teamsters where a member will earn top wages, superior health insurance
    benefits for his/her family and secure retirement benefits.
        Given the deep breadth of our membership and occupations, we
    believe that there are future opportunities for the Teamsters Union
    would to more closely partner with the Department of Defense Transition
    Assistance Program (DoDTAP) to assist returning service members with
    career assistance as they transition to civilian life, and commit to
    working with any member of the Committee in ensuring that participants
    in TAP have the opportunity to pursue the vast array of careers our
    members work in.

    Congressional Priorities

        The Teamsters have been deeply involved in numerous legislative
    efforts intended to strengthen veteran employment pipelines and career
    opportunities in Teamster represented industries. We believe that
    working in conjunction with your Committee, and other committees of
    jurisdiction, we can accomplish critical legislative changes to improve
    the pipeline and increase the availability of good jobs to veterans.

    Aircraft Maintenance

        The Teamsters are proud to represent approximately 10,000 aircraft
    mechanics, the majority of whom work for United Airlines. While it has
    long been the case that much of our commercial pilot workforce is made
    of veterans who flew military aircraft, the same is unfortunately not
    the case for individuals who performed military aircraft maintenance -
    in fact less than 10 percent of military aircraft mechanics are able to
    make the transition to civilian commercial service. In part, this gap
    existed because of failure of the Departments of Transportation,
    Defense, and Veteran's Affairs to work cooperatively to address the
    needs of these workers as they transition out.
        This includes failures to educate service members on resources
    which already exist, such as the Joint Service Aviation Maintenance
    Technician Certification Council (JSAMTCC) process, a pathway for
    military members to meet the requirements for an FAA Airframe &
    Powerplant (A&P) mechanic certificate based on their military training
    and experience. It also includes limitations in those programs, such as
    requiring separating services members to participate in duplicative
    testing or qualification which may be unnecessary.
        To close this gap, the Teamsters led efforts during the FAA
    Reauthorization bill to create similar pathways that exist for pilots
    for mechanics, which ultimately included in the enacted legislation.\1\
    We thank particularly thank Committee Chairman Bost for his advocacy in
    ensuring the provision was included in the bill.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ Sec. 426. Military aviation maintenance technicians rule
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The provision requires FAA to create new regulation, including
    creating a written competency test for military mechanics to reduce
    testing burden and consider developing an Airman Certification Standard
    to qualify eligible military maintenance technicians for a civilian
    mechanic certificate. The Teamsters are pleased that the FAA has
    already tasked the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee in developing
    these requirements, as well as identifying other actions that can be
    taken to streamline the FAA mechanic certification process for military
    applicants. We call on FAA to complete its tasking and these
    requirements expeditiously.

    Supporting High-Quality CDL Training

        While we are proud to run the CDL training programs discussed
    previously, our locals are limited in resources, which has constrained
    our ability to both operate new programs, and expand existing programs.
    To that end, we believe that Congress can play an important role in
    expanding access by increasing competitive grant opportunities for
    high-quality CDL training. Currently, Congress has funded driver
    training though the Commercial Motor Vehicle Operator Safety Training
    (CMVOST) grant program.
        The program is small in scope--in 2024 it awarded a total of $3.5
    million to 27 awardees, and most awards are targeted at advanced safety
    training for previously licensed drivers.\2\ As Congress debates
    surface transportation reauthorization, we strongly support an
    expansion of that program to include significantly higher funding
    levels, and a focus on initial licensure.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \2\ https://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/Grants/CMVOST.aspx
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        By doing so, Congress and the Department of Transportation can
    partner with the Teamsters and other quality operators to provide CDL
    training, including to veterans. CMVOST is also a particularly good fit
    for these efforts, as existing law requires that the ``Secretary shall
    award priority to grant applications for programs to train former
    members of the armed force'' \3\, a tasking we are prepared to meet.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \3\ 49 U.S. Code Sec.  31103(c)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Additionally, we have previously supported common-sense legislation
    which improves the pathway to careers as a commercial driver. The
    Teamsters were proud to endorse the Veteran Improvement Commercial
    Driver License Act, which was signed into law last year, and thank many
    members of the Committee, including Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden and
    Ranking Member Pappas for their sponsorship of the bill. In short, the
    legislation allows veterans to make use of G.I. funds at new CDL
    training schools, provided it is a new campus of an existing program,
    making use of the existing curriculum. This resolved a problem with
    G.I. bill restrictions for new facilities and we were pleased to see it
    become law.
        Similarly, we have previously endorsed the Veterans' Transition to
    Trucking Act, led by Ranking Member Pappas and Representative Kiggans,
    further cosponsored by Subcommittee Chairman Van Orden, which would
    allow the VA to streamline the approval of apprenticeship programs in
    the trucking industry.
        In sum, we believe that trucking offers tremendous career
    opportunity for transitioning veterans, and hope to continue to work
    closely with this Subcommittee and Congress to assist veterans in
    finding careers in the industry.

    Rail Benefits

        It is also critical that existing statute does not create
    unnecessary barriers or deterrents for veterans to pursue particular
    careers. In the rail industry, workers receive unemployment and
    sickness benefits through the Federal Railroad Retirement Board.
    However, current Federal law excludes railroad workers who are also
    receiving military retirement pay from receiving rail unemployment or
    sickness benefits that they have otherwise earned. This exclusion harms
    veteran rail workers without logical cause and should be addressed - to
    that end we support the enactment of H.R. 10109, the Veteran Benefits
    Enhancement Act, led by Representative Stansbury.

    Other Legislation

        The Teamsters are also committed to working with Congress and this
    Subcommittee on legislation to improve pathways to employment for
    veterans which are not inherently specific to the transportation
    industry. We have previously endorsed both the Servicemember
    Apprenticeship Act and the College Opportunities for Servicemembers
    Act, led by Reps. Sherrill and Kiggans, which would expand access to
    Registered Apprenticeship programs that are available to servicemembers
    in the Skillbridge Program, and foster cooperation between colleges and
    the Department of Defense with regards to veterans' entrance into
    Skillbridge programs, respectively.
        We know that numerous members of this Subcommittee and the full
    Committee have also introduced various pieces of legislation on this
    important subject, and we welcome the opportunity to work closely with
    members on advancing proposals which will improve the veteran
    employment pipeline moving forward.

    Conclusion

        The Teamsters have been proud to work for decades at various
    initiative to ensure the men and women of the Armed Forces have
    opportunities for good careers, with strong wages and benefits which
    can support them and their families upon transitioning out of the
    service. We fundamentally believe that we, the Nation's strongest labor
    union representing workers in nearly every industry, have a unique and
    critical role to play in this effort. It is our hope that we can
    continue to, and grow, our partnerships with Congress and the Federal
    Government in our effort to achieve these shared goals.

                       Prepared Statement of Jerome Grant

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
    Subcommittee thank you for the opportunity to be here today. It's an
    honor to speak with you about something at the core of our work and
    essential to our Nation's future: creating strong, reliable, high-wage
    career pathways for America's veterans.
        My name is Jerome Grant, and I serve as CEO of Universal Technical
    Institute, which includes both UTI and Concorde Career Colleges. Across
    our 30+ campuses, we focus entirely on hands-on, career-focused
    education in fields that keep this country running: automotive and
    diesel technology, aviation, welding, electrical and energy trades, and
    on the Concorde side--nursing, dental professions, respiratory therapy,
    surgical technology, and other critical healthcare roles.
        Last year, we educated more than 3,300 veterans and military-
    affiliated students. Veterans are not a subset of our population--they
    are central to our mission. They bring discipline, maturity, problem-
    solving, and leadership that elevate every classroom they're in.
        At UTI and Concorde, we've built a support system around them:
    dedicated admissions and financial-aid counselors trained on VA
    benefits, military scholarships, Salute to Service tuition reductions,
    career coaching, and veteran recognition ceremonies. Our measure of
    success is straightforward: four out of five of our graduates are
    employed in their field of study within a year. Our success is measured
    across the full employment cycle. We support graduates for life with
    placement assistance and continuing education, because--much like the
    military--they carry our name long after they leave our ranks. And,
    with new campuses opening, that impact will continue to grow.
        One of the most powerful examples of what works is our partnership
    with the Department of Defense through SkillBridge. UTI operates three
    on-base programs--at Fort Bliss, Fort Bragg, and Camp Pendleton. Out of
    more than 3,500 SkillBridge organizations nationwide, fewer than 200
    operate on base. Our SkillBridge programs offer free on-base housing
    for service members, Guardsmen, and Reservists coming from other
    installations. It's also open to dependents because we support the
    whole military family, not just the service member. We're honored to be
    among them. We hope to see base command embrace these important
    transition opportunities for service members.
        These programs cost the service member nothing. Over just 12 to 16
    weeks, participants complete automotive and diesel technician training
    that leads to civilian jobs with starting wages at or above $50,000.
    There's no gap between leaving the military and entering the workforce.
    It is immediate, with life-changing impact. And we should be doing more
    of it.
        We also work closely with the USO and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce
    Hiring Our Heroes program to deliver transition workshops, career
    preparation, and direct connections to employers. In every industry we
    serve--whether it's the skilled trades or healthcare--the message from
    employers is the same: We need more talent. And veterans are an ideal
    fit for these ``skilled--collar'' careers that value discipline,
    teamwork, and technical ability.
        We're proud to be recognized as a Military Friendly School and a
    Veteran Friendly Institution, but what truly matters is not the
    designation--it's the outcomes. Our responsibility is ensuring veterans
    leave us with strong credentials and stronger careers.
        As for the opportunity to create more visibility into the high
    paying jobs in skilled trades, I could not agree more with what Jim
    Farley the CEO of Ford said a couple of weeks ago. The skills gap in
    the United States is no longer a distant warning--it is a present-day
    crisis. When companies like Ford have 5,000 high-wage technician jobs
    sitting unfilled, it tells us one thing: our country must dramatically
    expand the training pipeline for skilled, technical careers that keep
    America moving and veterans are often well suited to these skilled
    trades jobs.
        At Universal Technical Institute and Concorde Career Colleges, we
    are focused every day on solving this problem. Across our nationwide
    campuses, UTI trains students in automotive, diesel, EV and hybrid
    systems, welding, aviation maintenance, electrical and energy
    technologies--the very roles Ford and the entire transportation and
    mobility sectors urgently need.
        A part of UTI's success is our industry leading partnerships with
    manufacturers which allow us to offer both industry and company-
    specific training sought by our employers. We have manufacturer
    specific advanced training programs with Ford, General Motors, Daimler
    Trucks, Communis Engines, and several other incredible manufacturers.
        We are eager to expand our partnerships with leading manufacturers
    to meet this moment. That includes scaling EV and next-generation
    propulsion training, creating more OEM-aligned curriculum, growing
    career pathways, opening additional on-base programs, and working
    together to recruit more veterans, career-changers, and young adults
    into these skilled-collar careers.
        America cannot remain competitive without a strong technical
    workforce. UTI is ready to grow, innovate, and partner even more
    aggressively to help close the skills gap and ensure employers have the
    talent they need to power the next century of American manufacturing.
        That's why we strongly support the VETS Opportunity Act, H.R. 1458,
    led by Congressman Ciscomani and Congressman Davis with the support of
    Chairman Van Orden. This bill is simple, bipartisan, and urgently
    needed. It modernizes the GI Bill to allow veterans to use their
    benefits for accredited hybrid and flexible certificate and diploma
    programs--programs that match the realities of today's workforce.
        This legislation would expand opportunities in fields where demand
    is high, wages are strong, and veterans thrive. It would reduce
    underemployment, strengthen our workforce, and allow more veterans to
    pursue careers in the skilled trades and healthcare--sectors where
    shortages are persistent and nationally significant.
        At a moment when many white-collar entry-level markets are
    tightening, the skilled trades and healthcare fields are wide open.
    Veterans deserve to walk through those open doors. Passing the VETS
    Opportunity Act is one of the most important steps Congress can take to
    ensure veterans have access to the jobs of today and the careers of
    tomorrow.
        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, Members of the
    Subcommittee--thank you for your leadership and for your commitment to
    helping every veteran transition into a meaningful, well-paid civilian
    career. At UTI and Concorde, we are privileged to serve those who have
    served, and we stand ready to work with you to expand opportunity and
    strengthen outcomes for America's veterans.
        Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

                       Prepared Statement of David Bostic

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                        Prepared Statement of Ying Vang

    The Opportunity

          The manufacturing sector is currently experiencing a
    significant workforce shortage. According to the National Association
    of Manufacturers, an estimated 2.1 million manufacturing positions may
    remain unfilled by 2030.

          Cut & sew manufacturing represents a specialized trade
    that, while having considerable barriers to entry, offers comparatively
    lower obstacles for initiation; this field does not necessitate a 4-
    year degree, but instead relies on training, discipline, and
    precision--qualities inherent to many veterans.

          Veterans transitioning from military service frequently
    seek roles characterized by hands-on engagement, teamwork, and mission-
    oriented environments, attributes commonly found within manufacturing
    settings.

    Why Veterans & Manufacturing Align

          Transferable Skills: Veterans bring attention to detail,
    proficiency with complex equipment, and the ability to follow
    procedures under pressure.

          Non-Traditional Pathways: Roles such as sewing, machine
    operation, quality assurance, and logistics can be acquired through
    practical experience, short-term training programs, or apprenticeships.

          Career Progression: Opportunities exist to advance from
    entry-level sewing positions to advanced technical operator roles,
    supervisory capacities, and ultimately plant leadership.

    Barriers and Proposed Solutions

          Barrier: Lack of awareness of manufacturing (and
    especially cut & sew) as a high-value career path.

            Solution: Expand and enhance career transition counseling to
            include pathways into manufacturing. Utilize and strengthen the
            Department of Labor Registered Apprenticeship Programs (RAPs)
            designed for veterans, and advocate for expanded funding
            incentives to encourage employers to hire veterans into
            apprenticeship roles.

          Barrier: GI Bill constraints regarding coverage for
    short-term, skills-focused training initiatives.

                    Solution: Expand eligibility and time for technical
                    certifications and apprenticeships in cut & sew
                    manufacturing. Streamline the conversion of military
                    training into civilian licenses, such as transitioning
                    medics to EMT or paramedic roles, leadership
                    certifications to senior management, and engineers to
                    construction project management certifications. Support
                    the growth and extended eligible length of time with
                    the Department of Defense's Credentialing Opportunities
                    Online (COOL) program.

                    Maximize GI Bill benefits through an extended eligible
                    period beyond 2 years, stackable credentials, and rapid
                    upskilling modules. These alternatives offer efficient
                    pathways to employment without requiring traditional
                    degrees.

          Barrier: Training expenses are predominantly borne by
    employers.

            Solution: Provide incentives to employers through training
            grants, tax credits, and funding targeted explicitly to veteran
            apprenticeship and work-experience programs.

    Stories That Resonate/Case Study: ORC Industries

          Mission: Dedicated to employing individuals with
    disabilities while strengthening America's manufacturing base
    capabilities, including employment opportunities for veterans.

          Cut & Sew Capabilities: Manufactures key defense textile
    products such as Army tarps, Navy ``Dixie Cup'' caps, shelters, and
    more.

          Career Pathways for Veterans: Sewing/machine operators
    receive onsite training regardless of educational background.
    Supervisory, quality assurance, and other indirect roles are promoted
    internally, leveraging both training and leadership abilities.
    Advancement into management or technical fields is further supported
    through ORC's educational benefits.

          Educational Support: ORC provides $3,000 annually in
    tuition reimbursement for technical or associate degrees and $5,000 per
    year for bachelor's degrees.

    Takeaway/Conclusion

          Cut & sew manufacturing presents a scalable, non-
    traditional career pathway for veterans. Enhanced recognition of
    skilled trades in the US, support for employer-driven training, and
    expanded funding for short-term credentials will empower veterans to
    obtain stable, well-compensated employment without the prerequisite of
    a 4-year degree, while simultaneously helping to address the Nation's
    critical manufacturing workforce deficit.

                           Statements for the Record

                                  ----------

      Prepared Statement of International Union of Elevator Constructors
     (IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP),

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
    Subcommittee: Thank you for the opportunity to share the union skilled
    trades perspective on veteran apprenticeship programs and Post-9/11 GI
    Bill utilization. I am Jason Gray, a proud veteran and the National
    Chairman of the IUEC Veterans Assistance Program. We submit this
    statement on behalf of the International Union of Elevator Constructors
    (IUEC) and the National Elevator Industry Educational Program (NEIEP),
    in solidarity with other union apprenticeship programs.
        We are concerned that although the Post-9/11 GI Bill was expanded
    in 2011 to cover apprenticeships and on-the-job training, these
    pathways remain underutilized by veterans. Based on DOL VETS data, in
    2024, only 0.31 percent of Post-9/11 GI Bill participants enrolled in
    OJT/APP (On-The-Job/Apprenticeship) programs. These numbers have
    dropped substantially over the last 6 years: in 2024, 140,000 fewer
    apprentices utilized the GI Bill for OJT/APP programs than in 2019.
    This indicates that tens of thousands of veterans are missing out on
    valuable ``earn-and-learn'' career opportunities in the skilled trades.
        We submit this statement of record to explain the issues and
    provide recommendations to improve veteran participation in skilled
    trades apprenticeships.

    GI Bill Apprenticeships: A Largely Overlooked Opportunity

        When Congress opened the Post-9/11 GI Bill to apprenticeships in
    2011, it created a powerful tool for veterans. In a registered
    apprenticeship, veterans work as paid apprentices in industries such as
    construction, utilities, and manufacturing while simultaneously
    receiving GI Bill benefits, including tax-free money for books and
    supplies, and a monthly housing allowance during training. Unlike a
    traditional college path, the union apprenticeship model charges no
    tuition - training costs are covered by joint labor-management
    programs, meaning veterans incur no student debt. An apprentice earns
    wages from day one (with regular raises) and often receives
    collectively bargained benefits, such as healthcare and pensions. The
    GI Bill benefits essentially serve as a boost to help cover rent,
    utilities, childcare, and other living expenses for the veteran as they
    advance through a 3-5-year apprenticeship that leads to journeyman
    status, including journeyman wages and benefits.
        In the elevator industry, the IUEC represents about 32,000 elevator
    and escalator mechanics and apprentices in the United States and
    Canada. The IUEC has collective bargaining agreements with 615
    employers in the industry, including large corporations such as Otis,
    KONE, Schindler, and TK Elevator. NEIEP is the apprenticeship program
    run by a joint board of Trustees with equal representation from the
    union and employers. It provides a 5-year, state-of-the-art
    apprenticeship program in over 65 locations across the country, where
    apprentices ``learn as they earn'' from day one, while incurring no
    debt for their education. When apprentices graduate from the program
    and become elevator and escalator mechanics, they join a trade that has
    consistently ranked as the highest-paying blue-collar job in the United
    States. (Forbes.com). And other trades--from plumbers and pipefitters
    to electricians, ironworkers, cement masons, bricklayers, painters, and
    more--offer tens of thousands of similar opportunities.
        Despite these advantages, veteran usage of GI Bill benefits for
    apprenticeships remains very low. The overwhelming majority of eligible
    veterans still choose to use their education benefits for college or
    other schooling. This gap is not due to a lack of ability or interest
    among veterans, but rather a lack of awareness and access. Many
    transitioning service members are simply not informed about
    apprenticeship opportunities during their transition or by VA
    educational counselors.
        The GAO concluded in 2015 that VA needed to improve outreach and
    ease administrative hurdles for the OJT/apprenticeship benefit, and VA
    concurred with all the recommendations. Unfortunately, from our vantage
    point in the skilled trades, this outreach gap persists today--too few
    separating service members ever learn about programs like ours. The
    result is a largely overlooked opportunity: veterans who could thrive
    in high-demand trade careers are missing the chance to use their hard-
    earned GI Bill benefits to pursue them. What's more, these industries
    are missing out on attracting qualified, skilled workers to fill a
    critical skilled labor shortage in construction.
        The following recommendations outline how VA and Congress can
    collaborate to achieve these goals, generating positive economic
    impacts for veterans, employers, and communities alike.

    Recommendation 1: Leverage Partnerships and Portals to Connect Veterans
    with Apprenticeship Opportunities

        VA should strengthen and expand partnerships with industry-
    affiliated programs to improve awareness and access to skilled trades
    apprenticeships for transitioning service members and veterans.
        One existing resource the VA can immediately leverage is Helmets to
    Hardhats (H2H). H2H is a national nonprofit portal that connects
    transitioning service members and veterans to registered apprenticeship
    programs in the construction and building trades. Backed by 15 major
    construction trade unions and contractor associations, H2H serves as a
    comprehensive navigator for veterans into these careers. Since 2003,
    H2H has helped close to 50,000 military members transition into
    civilian construction trades careers. It aggregates over 82,000
    contractors and 1,600 training centers across 65 different crafts on a
    single platform, essentially offering a one-stop shop for veterans to
    explore trade opportunities nationwide. Through H2H, a veteran can
    learn about apprenticeships for electricians, plumbers, carpenters,
    ironworkers, and more, and be directly referred to local union
    apprenticeship training centers. Importantly, H2H also educates
    veterans on how to use their GI Bill stipends during apprenticeship to
    supplement their entry-level wages - helping them financially sustain
    the ``earn while you learn'' period. Given this proven track record, VA
    should formally collaborate with Helmets to Hardhats (and similar
    programs) to amplify its reach.
        For example, VA can integrate H2H into the Transition Assistance
    Program (TAP) curriculum and VA websites, so every separating service
    member learns about this pipeline to the building and construction
    trades. The Department of Labor has already worked to include
    apprenticeship information in TAP classes; a coordinated VA endorsement
    would further validate this route.

    Recommendation 2: Remove Barriers and Provide Incentives for
    Apprenticeship Program Participation

        Oftentimes, the red tape surrounding approval of OJT/APP programs
    through State Approving Agencies (SAAs) stands in the way of veterans
    capitalizing on their earned education benefits. Even if a company or
    union has a Registered Apprenticeship Program certified by the
    Department of Labor (or a State apprenticeship agency), they must
    separately apply to their state's SAA for VA approval. This parallel
    process can be redundant and time-consuming. Moreover, if the
    apprenticeship sponsor operates in multiple states, historically, it
    has needed approvals in each State.
        For example, NEIEP currently operates over 65 locations across the
    country. Although each facility uses the same curriculum and
    instructional methods, they must individually apply and reapply to
    SAAs, creating inefficiencies and administrative burdens. The 2017
    VALOR Act made some progress in reducing these burdens by allowing
    multi-state apprenticeship sponsors to work with a single
    ``headquarters'' SAA for approval and accelerating multi-state program
    certification. Despite this advancement, unions, which typically do not
    meet the criteria under the VALOR Act, are still at a disadvantage with
    regards to the application process. A thorough review and revision of
    the VALOR Act could simplify approval processes and broaden access to
    union apprenticeships for veterans.
        Ideally, VA, DOL, and SAAs should work together on data-sharing
    systems so that when a program is registered or a veteran enrolls in a
    registered apprenticeship program, the approval for education benefits
    is almost automatic. This collaboration would establish a single,
    unified approval process instead of two separate tracks. If legislative
    changes are necessary, Congress should amend Title 38 to recognize DOL
    registration as fulfilling SAA requirements or further revise the VALOR
    Act to cover all multi-state scenarios.

    Recommendation 3: Enhance Financial Support for Veteran Apprentices -
    Especially Housing Allowances

        To attract more transitioning service members into skilled trades
    apprenticeships, we need to ensure that veterans participating in these
    programs receive sufficient financial support, comparable to what they
    would get attending traditional college programs. Specifically, the
    housing allowance for apprentices under the Post-9/11 GI Bill should be
    improved to eliminate disincentives. Currently, a veteran using the GI
    Bill in an apprenticeship or on-the-job training program receives a
    Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) that begins at the same rate as a full-
    time student's allowance but then decreases by 20 percent every 6
    months of training. This means that as a veteran advances and
    presumably gains more skills (and possibly increases family
    obligations), their VA housing support significantly declines. In one
    analysis, after 2 years, a veteran apprentice only receives 20 percent
    of their original allotment, turning what was once a robust living
    allowance into a small sum that barely covers groceries.'' Conversely,
    a veteran attending a university continues to receive their full
    housing stipend throughout their entire education. The financial
    disparity can be striking. For example, in Fiscal Year 2025, both the
    University of Connecticut (UConn) and IUEC Local 91 (Connecticut) will
    have a Monthly Housing Allowance (MHA) of $2,646. Over 4 years, an in-
    state UConn student would receive about $95,000 in MHA, along with
    $20,366 in tuition coverage per year--totaling roughly $175,000 in
    benefits. In comparison, a veteran in the IUEC/NEIEP apprenticeship in
    Connecticut would receive just over $57,000 in total MHA, a difference
    of approximately $118,000. This stark disparity discourages many
    veterans from choosing OJT/APP pathways.
        Congress should take action to level the playing field by offering
    full housing allowance support throughout a veteran's apprenticeship
    training. H.R. 982 - The Warrior to Workforce Act, sponsored by Rep.
    Van Orden, is a positive step. We strongly endorse this bill, but it
    should be viewed as the start of broader efforts to close the GI Bill
    value gap for veterans in OJT/APP programs. Removing the stepped-down
    reduction would ensure fair housing aid for OJT learners, as experts
    recommend. This change would make apprenticeships far more financially
    appealing. Allowing veterans to fully use their GI Bill for living
    expenses during apprenticeships will support their families' financial
    stability and enable them to focus on learning their trade. It also
    clearly shows that trades are valued equally with college education.
    There's no reason a veteran who, for example, wants to become an
    elevator mechanic or HVAC technician, should have to forfeit thousands
    of dollars in benefits compared to peers attending college. By aligning
    the housing allowance policy, Congress and VA would eliminate a major
    disincentive that currently discourages some veterans from pursuing
    apprenticeships.

    Key Steps Moving Forward

        By supporting organizations like Helmets to Hardhats, veterans are
    more likely to find careers in labor organizations. Simplifying the
    process for GI Bill approval allows these organizations to enroll
    veterans quickly, enabling them to receive their earned education
    benefits. Continuing efforts to close the gap in the use of education
    benefits for OJT/APP programs and traditional universities will
    encourage more veterans to pursue careers in labor and strengthen the
    veteran workforce in America. We urge the Committee to review the
    benefits structure to ensure fair access for all eligible veterans,
    whether they choose a university or an apprenticeship path. In support
    of that goal, we respectfully submit these recommendations.

                         Prepared Statement of 50strong

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                   Prepared Statement of Helmets to Hardhats

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

     Prepared Statement of National Association of State Approving Agencies

    Introduction

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas and members of the
    Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, on behalf of the fifty-three-
    member State agencies of the National Association of State Approving
    Agencies (NASAA) and their over 220 staff members, thank you for the
    opportunity to provide comments on strengthening the workforce of
    American veterans.
        State approving agencies are State approving agencies responsible
    for approving standard college degrees, preparatory courses, residency
    courses, license and certification exams, non-college degree (NCD),
    apprenticeship (APP), and on-the-job training (OJT) programs for the GI
    Bill. As such, we review programs to ensure they align with our mission
    and provide high-quality instruction and training that prepares
    veterans and their beneficiaries for lucrative careers as they make
    their transition from the military to civilian life. As pointed out by
    Chairman Van Orden, we are concerned that APP and OJT programs now
    account for less that 1 percent of the veterans using the GI Bill, a
    continual decline over the last decade due to a lack of awareness and
    little incentive to utilize this benefit to pursue workforce training.
    For example, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) reports that
    during Fiscal Year 2025, only 2,219 Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries
    began an OJT or apprenticeship program. During the same period, 78,382
    individuals began receiving the same benefit while enrolled in
    undergraduate or graduate degree programs. We believe that the
    underutilization of this important benefit is partially due to lack of
    veteran awareness. Furthermore, VA admits that this benefit has been
    inadequately promoted and more should be done to ensure veterans are
    informed of all the potential uses of their GI Bill entitlement. It is
    important that the value of an apprenticeship and how it can equip
    individuals with the skills needed to quickly enter the workforce be
    properly explained.
        Veterans that enroll in an APP or OJT can effectively use their
    benefit to transition more quickly into the civilian workforce while
    for themselves and their families. For this reason, we strongly support
    H.R. 982, the Warriors to Workforce Act of 2025, introduced by Chairman
    Derrick Van Orden in February of this year. This important legislation
    would increase the benefits that veterans receive during their first
    year of an apprenticeship by changing the law so that after 6 months of
    training, the amount of benefit veterans receive will increase to 90
    percent as opposed to the current 80 percent prescribed by law. This
    increase will provide a needed incentive for veterans to use this
    program, while enhancing the likelihood that they will persist in their
    training, enter the workforce, and support their families. The sooner
    veterans identify a career path and training program that aligns with
    their goals, their chance for successful transition to civilian life
    increases significantly.
        Over the past several decades, Congress has greatly increased the
    financial incentives for veterans to seek a college degree, but little
    has been done for veterans who seek practical on-the-job training
    rather than a college degree. While in the military, many
    servicemembers work in occupations that are more hands-on and can
    utilize these transferable skills that are greatly needed in the
    civilian workforce. With this increase in their APP/OJT benefit,
    veterans could be better incentivized to join the workforce
    immediately, thereby securing gainful employment, becoming a tax paying
    citizen and contributing to their local communities and families.
        NASAA also strongly supports H.R. 1458, the Veterans Education and
    Technical Skills (VETS) Opportunity Act, which expands access to high-
    quality, high-demand skilled trade and technical training programs for
    those who served. Introduced by Rep. Juan Ciscomani earlier this year,
    this legislation ensures that GI Bill benefits can be used for in-
    person and hybrid skilled-trade programs offered at accredited
    institutions approved by State Approving Agencies. By requiring
    regular, substantive interaction between students and instructors, this
    bill protects the integrity of VA education benefits as students are
    prepared for employment in high-skill technical fields. As Rep.
    Ciscomani noted, this commonsense reform will expand the benefits that
    veterans earned to cover the costs of high-skilled training programs
    and allow veterans to receive training to address nationwide shortages
    in trades like welding, pipe fitting, HVAC, and advanced manufacturing
    fields. Similarly to H.R. 982, this bill can help to encourage more
    veterans to seek training in high demand occupations and provide
    pathways to successful careers in today's workforce. These bills better
    align training and education with employer demand while upholding
    quality standards and allowing veterans to use their transferable
    skills to pursue vocational and technical careers and contribute to the
    rebuilding of our Nation's infrastructure.
        Finally, NASAA is concerned with some provisions of H.R. 2954, the
    Veterans' Transition to Trucking Act of 2025. While we agree with the
    noble intention of this legislation to address a shortage of drivers in
    our Nation, we have reservations about the fact that this legislation
    removes State Approving Agency (SAA) oversight of trucking programs, an
    important protection for veterans and their families. Legislation
    currently exists that provides for the approval of national
    apprenticeship programs without removing SAA protections such as
    ensuring only high-quality programs are approved. SAAs have dedicated
    staff in each State to provide compliance oversight and training to
    approved truck driving schools, whereas the VA may face challenges
    conducting thorough inspections at these institutions. NASAA welcomes
    the opportunity to work with the sponsors of this legislation to
    address these concerns and ensure that veterans can more quickly and
    efficiently use their earned education benefits to enter high-quality
    training programs--no matter where they live or relocate to, without
    the loss of the protections which SAA approval and oversight can
    provide for them.

    Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

    Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, NASAA has
    not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 2025, nor has it
    received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

    NASAA has not received payments or contracts from any foreign
    governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.

     Prepared Statement of National Association of Electrical Distributors
                                     (NAED)

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           Prepared Statement of University of Health and Performance

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and distinguished
    members of the Subcommittee:

        Thank you for the opportunity to submit written testimony for the
    record on behalf of the University of Health and Performance (UHP). My
    name is Matt Hesse, and I am the CEO of UHP, a vocational school
    located in Gentry, Arkansas. Our institution is dedicated exclusively
    to empowering former servicemembers as they transition to civilian
    life, providing them with the skills, certifications, and community
    support needed to thrive in high-demand, non-traditional industries. I
    appreciate the Subcommittee's focus on exploring alternative career
    pathways for veterans beyond the traditional 4-year degree, and I am
    eager to share how UHP's innovative model contributes to strengthening
    America's veteran workforce and boosting our economy.
        UHP was founded with a singular mission: to serve those who have
    served our Nation. We focus exclusively on former servicemembers,
    creating a tailored educational environment that honors their unique
    experiences and needs. Unlike conventional programs, UHP replicates the
    structure and intensity of active military training to ease the
    transition out of service. Our programs prepare veterans for missions
    in civilian life, emphasizing short-duration, high-intensity coursework
    in areas such as personal training, integrative health coaching, and
    culinary nutrition. This compressed, immersive approach allows students
    to complete their training in just 18 days--or 140 hours--compared to
    the months or years required in traditional 4-year degree programs or
    even standard semester-based vocational schools. By condensing the
    timeline without sacrificing quality, we enable veterans to quickly
    enter the workforce, often within weeks of separation from service,
    addressing the critical first-year post-separation period when many
    utilize their GI Bill benefits.
        What sets UHP apart is our veteran-centric model, which not only
    delivers practical skills but also fosters fellowship and wellness
    through a community of peers. Veterans train alongside other veterans
    in a supportive, familiar environment that cultivates the values they
    adopted during their time in service--discipline, resilience, and
    camaraderie. This shared experience promotes mental and physical
    wellness, helping participants rebuild confidence and purpose. Our
    dedicated staff, many of whom are veterans themselves, serve as
    positive role models, creating a space where students can sustain and
    build upon the productive habits honed in the military. The result is
    not just skill acquisition, but holistic personal growth, as veterans
    find renewed motivation and a sense of belonging that traditional
    educational settings often fail to provide.
        Our success metrics demonstrate the effectiveness of this approach.
    Based on survey data from our graduates:

          91 percent are employed following completion of the
    program.

          35 percent work directly in the health and fitness
    fields.

          37 percent report an increase in income after graduating,
    with 93 percent passing accreditation exams on their first attempt.

          98 percent describe the program as ``effective and
    valuable.''

          78 percent apply UHP's core framework--``Think, Train,
    Feel, and Lead''--in their daily lives.

          98 percent have referred or would refer a friend to UHP.

        These outcomes highlight how UHP equips veterans with marketable
    certifications and real-world readiness, leading to meaningful careers
    in high-paying industries that align with their strengths.
        In conclusion, programs like UHP are vital for expanding non-
    traditional educational opportunities. UHP exemplifies how targeted,
    accelerated training can empower veterans to build prosperous civilian
    careers, strengthen our economy, and enhance their overall well-being
    through community and purpose. I urge the Subcommittee to support
    policies that promote these alternative pathways, ensuring more
    veterans can access the opportunities they deserve.
        Thank you for your time and commitment to our Nation's heroes.

                 Prepared Statement of Wounded Warrior Project

        Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Pappas, and Members of the
    Subcommittee - thank you for the opportunity to share Wounded Warrior
    Project's (WWP) perspective on opportunities to improve employment
    pathways for veterans. We appreciate the Subcommittee's leadership in
    examining how military-to-civilian transition, education, and
    employment programs can better support veterans pursuing non-
    traditional, skills-based professions.
        Supporting long-term financial independence has been an enduring
    component of WWP's mission to honor and empower wounded warriors.
    Beyond the services WWP offers to support veterans' mental and physical
    well-being, our Warriors to Work program provides high-touch, career
    coaching services to warriors and family support members to prepare
    them for employment and enhance their overall financial wellness. In
    Fiscal Year 2025, we provided over 62,000 services to help over 1,200
    warriors and family members achieve employment. Our national service
    officers and partnership network extend our impact even further - all
    free of cost to those we serve. Collectively, our engagements with
    warriors across the country have shaped our perspective on how the
    community is meeting veterans' employment needs, including for those
    pursuing high-skilled vocations and apprenticeships.
        The modern labor market increasingly rewards skills, credentials,
    apprenticeships, and hands-on training. According to the Bureau of
    Labor Statistics, nearly 60 percent of new jobs created between 2020
    and 2030 will be in occupations that do not require a college
    degree.\1\ Many of the fastest-growing, best-paying jobs, such as wind
    turbine technicians, solar installers, industrial machinery mechanics,
    commercial pilots, and community health workers, are built on
    apprenticeships, on-the-job training (OJT), or short-term credentials
    rather than 4-year degrees.\2\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ U.S. BUREAU OF LABOR STAT., CAREER OUTLOOK: FAST-GROWING
    OCCUPATIONS THAT PAY WELL AND DON'T REQUIRE A COLLEGE DEGREE (June
    2022), available at https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2022/article/
    occupations-that-dont-require-a-degree.htm.
        \2\ Id.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Despite these trends, many of the Federal systems designed to
    prepare veterans transitioning to civilian life remain oriented toward
    a ``college-first'' model. Commitments to higher education at the
    Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) can and should continue; however,
    to keep pace with labor-market realities, Congress can help set new
    strategies to optimize veterans' chances of finding successful and
    fulfilling careers after military service. We believe that meaningful
    progress can be made by reversing underutilization trends for OJT and
    apprenticeships; creating more consistency in VA's Veteran Readiness &
    Employment (VR&E) program; and embracing innovation in connecting
    veterans to jobs in emerging fields.

    Underutilization of OJT and Apprenticeships

        Veterans have several avenues to pursue non-traditional careers,
    but current outcomes and observations suggest that existing structures
    are funneling fewer individuals toward these opportunities than might
    be expected. Across the past five fiscal years (FY2020-FY2024),
    participation in GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs has remained
    strikingly low, averaging only 1,700-2,300 veterans per year,
    representing well under one-half of 1 percent of all GI Bill users in
    any year.\3\ In Fiscal Year 2024, those figures broke down to
    approximately 776 apprenticeships and 1,008 OJT participants under the
    Post-9/11 GI Bill, versus 454,179 veterans and Service members using
    the GI Bill in that fiscal year.\4\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \3\ U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS
    REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET.
    BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2023 154 (2024);
    U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT
    FISCAL YEAR 2022 154 (2023); U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS
    ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2021 150 (2022); U.S. DEP'T
    OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR
    2020 151 (2021).
        \4\  U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., VET. BENEFITS ADMIN. - ANNUAL
    BENEFITS REPORT FISCAL YEAR 2024 157 (2025).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        These results may be explained by how responsible Federal agencies
    coordinate their efforts. The Department of Defense (DoD) oversees the
    Transition Assistance Program (TAP), a multi-day event attended by
    Service members as a part of their out-processing from the military
    that includes several briefings, including Department of Labor (DOL)
    workshops, Small Business Administration information on
    entrepreneurship, Office of Personnel Management Federal employment
    information, and a VA-led seminar on VA benefits.\5\ While these three
    programs aim to support transitioning veterans and their families,
    these programs lack interoperability and consistent communication,
    often leaving veterans and their families alone to piece together
    fragmented resources across three separate cabinet-level agencies.
    Further, RAND and Government Accountability Office (GAO) have both
    noted a commonality among these programs - that they have historically
    emphasized college enrollment over helping veterans translate military
    skills into civilian jobs or apprenticeships. \6\, \7\ RAND
    also found that more than 95 percent of Federal transition program
    funding goes to education-related programs, while very few resources
    support direct employment or vocational pathways.\8\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \5\ Transition Assistance Program, U.S. Department of Labor https:/
    /www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/tap.
        \6\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-16-51, VA BENEFITS:
    INCREASING OUTREACH AND MEASURING OUTCOMES WOULD IMPROVE POST-9/11 GI
    BILL ON-THE-JOB TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS 2 (2015).
        \7\  Meredith Kleykamp et al., RAND, FEDERAL PROGRAMS TO ASSIST
    MILITARY-TO-CIVILIAN EMPLOYMENT TRANSITIONS LIMITED SCRUTINY AND
    SUBSTANTIAL INVESTMENT IN EDUCATION PROGRAMS 51 (2024), available at
    https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1363-12.html.
        \8\  Id. at 55.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Fortunately, improvements are underway. TAP has undergone reforms
    and now includes a standardized curriculum. DoD provides optional in-
    depth workshops to prepare Service members for civilian employment
    through advanced job search strategies and networking (Employment
    Track) and to guide them in exploring technical careers and obtaining
    necessary certifications (Vocational Track). DOL VETS administers three
    employment-focused workshops worldwide. The Employment Fundamentals of
    Career Transition (EFCT) is a mandatory, 1-day course that provides all
    transitioning Service members with foundational employment preparation,
    including labor-market awareness, transferable skills identification,
    and basic resume concepts. After completing EFCT, Service members may
    participate in optional 2-day workshops. The Department of Labor
    Employment Workshop (DOLEW) offers in-depth instruction on resume
    development, interviewing, and networking. The Career and Credential
    Exploration (C2E) track uses structured assessments to guide
    participants toward vocational pathways, apprenticeships, and industry-
    recognized credentials. All three workshops are delivered by DOL VETS
    facilitators through in-person, virtual, and online learning formats.
    These modules constitute the employment and skills-development
    components of TAP and are intended to support Service members in
    meeting DoD's Career Readiness Standards. EFCT is typically delivered
    early in the TAP sequence, immediately after initial counseling and
    DoD's ``Transition Day.'' DOLEW and C2E are scheduled later based on
    the Service member's tier level and Individual Transition Plan.
        While these programs provide high level links to information on GI
    Bill OJT/apprenticeships, non-degree training, and licensure/
    certification reimbursement, they do not go deeply into navigation of
    these benefits, nor do they cover programs such as Compensated Work
    Therapy (CWT), Individual Placement and Support (IPS), or VetSuccess on
    Campus counseling. Anecdotal evidence from WWP's Warriors to Work
    program indicates that many warriors are unaware of the available
    benefits - which in this context may include VR&E services, GI Bill
    OJT/apprenticeships and non-degree training, licensure/certification
    reimbursements, VetSuccess on Campus counseling, CWT and supported
    employment programs, and TAP-related career services - and do not learn
    that these benefits exist until years after separation. This concern
    was underscored in a Government Accountability Office (GAO) 2015
    report, which found that VA's mandatory TAP benefits briefings heavily
    emphasized degree programs while offering limited practical guidance on
    apprenticeships or OJT.\9\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \9\ GAO-16-51 at 2.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        VA has since implemented GAO's recommendations by expanding OJT and
    apprenticeship content in TAP (a separate offering from DoD's Career
    and Credential Exploration track); publishing an employer guide on DoD
    and Department of Labor - VETS webpages; allowing electronic submission
    of employer monthly certifications confirming the veteran's
    participation; and, as of August 2020, modifying its data system so it
    can track how many veterans complete their OJT or apprenticeship
    experience.\10\ Despite this progress, many veterans continue to have
    an incomplete picture of the opportunities available to them due, in
    part, to inconsistent counseling and limited real-time information
    presented during TAP about non-degree employment routes.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \10\ Id. at 22-23.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        To improve outcomes, DoD's TAP transition counselors should ensure
    they are guiding veterans to options that match their goals, disability
    profiles, family circumstances, and local workforce needs, especially
    when a skills-based pathway would be more appropriate than a degree
    program.\11\ Even if warriors are aware of these nontraditional
    avenues, a 2023 GAO report explained that some institutions (with
    nontraditional training such as outdoor recreation certificate
    programs) are unable to accept GI Bill funding because they are
    concerned about the administrative burden pursuing GI Bill approval may
    create.\12\ Thus, multiple factors are operating to move veterans away
    from pursuing tracks to high-skilled apprenticeships and vocational
    trades. While VA has tools that can help veterans explore and pursue
    those options, many service-connected disabled veterans remain unaware
    about VR&E and specifically the other program features that the GI Bill
    does not offer, including special equipment to help them mitigate or
    overcome the effects of their disability, such as mobility aids and
    voice recognition software.\13\ Moreover, approval processes are slow,
    guidance is inconsistent, and modern credential programs often fall
    outside VA GI Bill eligibility rules even when employer demand is
    strong.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \11\ Id. at 21.
        \12\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-23-106149, VETERANS
    EMPLOYMENT: GI BILL BENEFITS CAN HELP LEAD TO OUTDOOR RECREATION
    CAREERS 9 (2023).
        \13\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-21-450, VA COULD BETTER
    INFORM VETERANS WITH DISABILITIES ABOUT THEIR EDUCATION BENEFIT OPTIONS
    8 (2021).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        In conclusion, veterans cannot take advantage of pathways they do
    not know exist, are unsure how to access, or are pushed toward programs
    that are not the right fit or do not lead to viable careers. To improve
    use of apprenticeships, OJT, and other non-degree routes, DoD, DOL, and
    VA could modernize their outreach, strengthen TAP counseling, and
    ensure veterans receive clear, reliable information long after
    separation. Doing so will allow more warriors to pursue employment
    options that match their skills, health needs, and family realities.

    Inconsistencies with Veteran Readiness & Employment

        Among VA's most notable occupational training programs, VR&E
    provides job training, employment, resume development, and job-seeking
    skills coaching for veterans whose service-connected disabilities make
    it hard to prepare for, obtain, or maintain employment. A meaningful
    number of WWP warriors - one in five (21.1 percent) - have used, or are
    using, the VR&E program according to 2023 Warrior Survey data. VR&E's
    recent challenges with high counselor-to-veteran ratios and geographic
    wait time disparities are becoming more pronounced, but there are other
    issues which deserve attention.
        While VR&E has great potential to help veterans, inconsistent VA
    VR&E counselor guidance and decision-making can materially shape
    veterans' long-term employment outcomes. Highly variable experiences
    with VR&E counselors - ranging from those who fully support OJT/
    apprenticeships to others who strongly steer toward degree programs -
    lead to structural barriers and unequal access to the full range of
    employment opportunities veterans are entitled to consider. In 2019,
    GAO found inconsistent decision-making among counselors where veterans
    with similar disabilities, experiences, and goals may receive entirely
    different training plans based solely on individual counselor
    discretion.\14\ Labor-market data is not incorporated consistently,
    which can result in veterans being guided toward degree programs even
    when apprenticeships or OJT would better align with regional workforce
    needs as well as the veteran's own strengths.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \14\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFF., GAO-20-28, VA VOCATIONAL
    REHABILITATION AND EMPLOYMENT: ADDITIONAL ASSESSMENT COULD ENHANCE
    CONSISTENCY AMONG COUNSELORS 7 (2019).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        GAO also found that VR&E lacked a mechanism to assess whether
    counselors were applying common planning factors consistently, raising
    concerns about unequal treatment of similarly situated veterans who may
    be denied benefits in a non-standard and arbitrary manner. VA
    subsequently conducted a counselor consistency study in early 2020 and
    provided targeted refresher training later that year, leading GAO to
    close its recommendation as implemented.\15\ Even so, VR&E still does
    not measure or publish outcomes by training track, making it difficult
    to evaluate whether degree, OJT, credential, or apprenticeship channels
    produce the strongest long-term results. Without transparent outcomes
    across training types, veterans cannot make fully informed choices, and
    Congress cannot effectively oversee and evaluate the programs it funds.
    Even employers who are deeply committed to hiring veterans tell us the
    process to participate in VA-supported OJT/apprenticeships is
    confusing, administratively burdensome, and unpredictable. Small and
    mid-sized employers frequently cite administrative burdens and
    consistently lack the human resource capacity to navigate VA paperwork,
    limiting the number of veterans who can access these options.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \15\ Id. at 13.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The impact of the VA VR&E inconsistencies is even more pronounced
    for warriors with the highest support needs. WWP's Independence Program
    participants, many of whom live with severe physical, cognitive, or
    psychological injuries, face unique barriers in traditional classroom
    environments. Yet structured employment, supported apprenticeships, and
    individualized technical training models have shown strong promise when
    paired with coaching, memory supports, workplace accommodations, and
    employer education regarding invisible injuries. These models can open
    channels to independence for warriors who might otherwise be excluded
    from the workforce, yet they remain difficult to access through current
    VA programs.
        Current VR&E eligibility rules are also limiting the program's
    potential for improving the lives of veterans who are seeking to return
    to work as their disability picture changes. Under current law,
    veterans who left the military prior to January 1, 2013, must apply for
    VR&E benefits within 12 years of separation (38 U.S.C. Sec.  3103),
    which means every Post-9/11 veteran who got out prior to this date has
    now passed that window of eligibility.\16\ For many wounded, ill, and
    injured veterans, this window may have closed just as they reached the
    point of stability needed to pursue retraining.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \16\ 38 C.F.R. Sec.  21.41.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Veterans registering for WWP services do so on average 9 years
    after discharge, and nearly half of veterans responding to our most
    recent Warrior Survey report chronic physical or mental health
    conditions that worsen over time. GAO and VA longitudinal data
    similarly indicate that veterans with traumatic brain injury, post-
    traumatic stress disorder, chronic pain, and other complex conditions
    often delay pursuing education or employment services until well beyond
    the 10-year mark due to extended treatment cycles and fluctuating
    symptoms.\17\ As a result, many veterans become ready for
    apprenticeships, OJT, or industry credentials only after their VR&E
    eligibility has expired.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \17\ See, e.g., U.S. DEP'T OF VET. AFF., POST-SEPARATION TRANSITION
    ASSISTANCE PROGRAM OUTCOME STUDY: 2021 LONGITUDINAL SURVEY REPORT
    (2022).
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Eliminating the delimiting eligibility date would ensure veterans
    can access training when they are medically and functionally prepared
    to benefit from it, rather than losing eligibility because recovery
    took longer than the statute anticipates. To bring parity across all
    generations of service, we believe that the 12-year delimiting date
    should be removed for all veterans. VA already has the authority to
    waive the 12-year rule on a case-by-case basis if the veteran is
    determined to have a ``serious employment handicap.'' However, the
    standards used to make that determination are not clear and, without
    specific guidance to follow, a Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor
    (VRC) is left to make a subjective decision whether to grant the
    veteran eligibility to the program. Wider and more predictable
    participation should be the goal.
        Wounded Warrior Project is grateful for legislative progress
    already being made on several of these issues. We are proud to support
    Representative Hamadeh's bill, H.R. 1793, the Veterans Readiness and
    Employment Transparency Act, which would improve outreach by requiring
    informational sessions, and enhancing reporting measures to ensure
    better veteran outcomes. Furthermore, we thank this Committee and bill
    sponsor Representative Ciscomani for advancing H.R. 3579, the Veterans
    Readiness and Employment Program Integrity Act out of the House of
    Representatives this year; this bill seeks to impose limits to protect
    VR&E counselor workloads and to require the publication of current wait
    times sorted by regional office. We are hopeful that both pieces of
    legislation are signed into law during this 119th Congress.

    Innovative Approaches as Gateways to Employment

        Innovative approaches to employment include short-term, industry-
    recognized credentials that open doors to high-growth careers without
    requiring a traditional degree. Entry-level information technology and
    cybersecurity roles increasingly rely on certifications such as the
    Computing Technology Industry Association (CompTIA) Information
    Technology Fundamentals (ITF+), CompTIA A+, or CompTIA Network+, rather
    than two-or 4-year programs. Skilled trades and infrastructure
    employers prioritize Occupational Safety and Health Administration
    (OSHA)-10, OSHA-30, and National Center for Construction Education and
    Research (NCCER) Core credentials to demonstrate safety and job
    readiness. Cloud computing pathways, one of the fastest-growing sectors
    in the economy, often begin with the Amazon Web Services (AWS) Cloud
    Practitioner certification. Process-improvement roles across
    healthcare, logistics, and government frequently accept Lean Six Sigma
    Yellow Belt, while emergency response and healthcare careers open
    through short-term credentials such as Emergency Medical Technician-
    Basic (EMT-Basic). These programs can be completed in weeks, not years,
    yet lead to stable, well-paid careers, reinforcing that many of today's
    strongest labor-market opportunities are built on skills and
    credentials rather than traditional degrees.
        As we work to ensure VA's education and employment systems reflect
    the opportunities available in today's labor market, we must ensure
    more veterans are entering high-growth, skills-based occupations; have
    shorter periods between separation and stable employment; improve
    outcomes for historically underserved populations; and have clear,
    reliable data demonstrating that non-degree channels can produce wages
    and career progression comparable to or greater than those achieved
    through traditional degrees.
        One example of how innovative, non-traditional training models can
    meet these needs in the field is Wounded Warrior Project's Drone
    Certification initiative, which demonstrates how innovative, non-
    traditional career avenues can support veterans' whole health while
    opening doors to meaningful employment. Through WWP's new Drone
    Initiative, warriors receive hands-on, employer-aligned training that
    prepares them for FAA Part 107 commercial drone certification, an
    accessible credential that does not require prior drone experience or a
    traditional college degree. This model directly addresses several of
    the most persistent barriers veterans face in the civilian workforce,
    including difficulty translating military skills, limited exposure to
    emerging technical fields, and uncertainty navigating nontraditional
    career ladders. By embedding this program within Warriors to Work, WWP
    ensures veterans receive not only skills-based training but also career
    counseling, resume writing support, and a bridge to employment
    opportunities in sectors such as construction, infrastructure
    inspection, public safety, agriculture, and environmental mapping.
        Most importantly, the program's impact extends beyond career
    readiness to veterans' mental, emotional, and physical well-being.
    Drone operations promote focus, reduce stress, encourage outdoor
    activity, and stimulate cognitive engagement - benefits comparable to
    mindfulness practices and rehabilitative therapy. The WWP Warrior
    Survey found that warriors report renewed confidence, restored purpose,
    and meaningful social connection through team-based instruction and
    peer engagement. The program is also highly adaptable for veterans with
    physical injuries or mobility limitations, allowing them to develop
    technical expertise, contribute to mission-driven work such as disaster
    response or search-and-rescue, and retain a sense of service and
    identity. In short, WWP's Drove Initiative is more than a skills
    program - it is a holistic model that strengthens wellness, reduces
    barriers to employment, and empowers veterans to succeed in rapidly
    growing, nontraditional industries.
        In conclusion, innovative, skills-based pathways like drone
    certification illustrate why VA's education and employment systems must
    be flexible enough to meet veterans where they are, aligning training
    choices with each veteran's goals, disability profile, family
    circumstances, and the workforce needs of their local community. By
    modernizing these systems to recognize short-term credentials,
    employer-aligned training, and holistic supports, we can ensure more
    veterans access meaningful careers that honor their service and sustain
    long-term well-being.

    Concluding Remarks

        Wounded Warrior Project stands ready to support the Economic
    Opportunity Subcommittee's efforts and to work alongside VA, DoD, DOL,
    employers, and our fellow veteran service organizations (VSO) to ensure
    every warrior can pursue the training pathway that best fits their
    goals and circumstances. Veterans bring extraordinary potential to
    America's workforce, and our systems must help unlock it. Thank you for
    the opportunity to submit this statement for the record. We look
    forward to working with you to help improve employment outcomes for
    veterans.

                   Prepared Statement of The American Legion

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