[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
MARKUP OF: H.R. 2066, INVESTING IN ALL AMER-
ICA ACT OF 2025; H.R. 4549, OFFICE OF
RURAL AFFAIRS ENHANCEMENT ACT; H.R. 4495,
SBA FRAUD ENFORCEMENT EXTENSION ACT;
H.R. 4491, SBA IT MODERNIZATION REPORTING
ACT; H.R. 3174, MADE IN AMERICA MANUFAC-
TURING FINANCE ACT OF 2025
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
UNITED STATES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD
JULY 22, 2025
__________
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Small Business Committee Document Number 119-016
Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-540 WASHINGTON : 2026
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
MARK ALFORD, Missouri
NICK LALOTA, New York
BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota
TONY WIED, Wisconsin
ROB BRESNAHAN, Pennsylvania
BRIAN JACK, Georgia
TROY DOWNING, Montana
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern Marina Islands
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
JIMMY PATRONIS, Florida
NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
LAMONICA MCIVER, New Jersey
GIL CISNEROS, California
KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
GEORGE LATIMER, New York
DEREK TRAN, California
LATEEFAH SIMON, California
JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
MAGGIE GOODLANDER, New Hampshire
Lauren Holmes, Majority Staff Director
Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Pete Stauber................................................ 1
Hon. Nydia Velazquez............................................. 2
APPENDIX
Additional Material for the Record:
Text of Legislation:
H.R. 2066 - Investing in All of America Act of 2025.......... 18
H.R. 4549 - Office of Rural Affairs Enhancement Act.......... 25
H.R. 4495 - SBA Fraud Enforcement Extension Act.............. 31
H.R. 4491 - SBA IT Modernization Reporting Act............... 33
H.R. 3174 - Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025 37
Amendments:
ANS to H.R. 2066, offered by Mr. Meuser...................... 41
ANS to H.R. 3174, offered by Mr. Williams.................... 46
Velazquez Amendment, no. 1, to H.R. 3174..................... 49
Velazquez Amendment, no. 2, to H.R. 3174..................... 50
Support Documents:
E-Vote Results............................................... 56
Defense Credit Union Council (DCUC).......................... 60
Small Business Investor Alliance (SBIA)...................... 64
Hon. Morrison Letter......................................... 66
Ready Capital Letter......................................... 67
Votes:
Meuser Amendment, no. 1, to H.R. 2066........................ 68
Williams Amendment, no. 1, to H.R. 3174...................... 69
Final Passage to H.R. 3174................................... 70
Final Passage to H.R. 2066................................... 71
Final Passage to H.R. 4549................................... 72
Final Passage to H.R. 4495................................... 73
Final Passage to H.R. 4491................................... 74
MARKUP OF: H.R. 2066, INVESTING IN ALL AMERICA ACT OF 2025; H.R. 4549,
OFFICE OF RURAL AFFAIRS ENHANCEMENT ACT; H.R. 4495, SBA FRAUD
ENFORCEMENT EXTENSION ACT; H.R. 4491, SBA IT MODERNIZATION REPORTING
ACT; H.R. 3174, MADE IN AMERICA MANUFACTURING FINANCE ACT OF 2025
----------
TUESDAY, JULY 22, 2025
House of Representatives,
Committee on Small Business,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:45 a.m., in Room
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Pete Stauber [Member
of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Stauber, Meuser, Van Duyne,
Ellzey, Alford, LaLota, Finstad, Wied, Bresnahan, Jack,
Downing, King-Hinds, Schmidt, Patronis, Velazquez, McGarvey,
Scholten, McIver, Cisneros, Morrison, Latimer, Tran, Simon,
Olszewski, Conaway, and Goodlander.
Mr. STAUBER. [Presiding.] The Committee will now come to
order and a quorum is present. Before I get into my comments, I
would like to say it is going to be a busy day. We are going to
have Members from both sides of the aisle coming to and from
the Small Business Committee. So just be aware that there will
be comings and goings of Members.
So without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare
recess of the committee at any time. As required by House
rules, a copy of the legislation measures have been made
available to Members and the public at least 24 hours in
advance. Pursuant to committee rule 13 and House rule XI, all
votes will be rolled to the end of the meeting. Without
objection, the committee will vote electronically in accordance
with Committee rules and regulations developed by the House
Committees on Rules and Administration.
Before recognizing myself for opening remarks, I want to
pass along a brief message from Chairman Williams, who could
not be here today due to a family matter. He is very proud of
the progress made by this Committee this year, especially the
five bills being considered today. The Chairman urges support
of all five bills for consideration today and looks forward to
this Committee continuing its great work for the American
people.
And I will recognize myself for opening remarks.
Today we will mark up five important bills that support
small businesses across America. These bills will revitalize
American manufacturing, support rural entrepreneurs, protect
taxpayers' dollars, and hold fraudsters accountable. Small
businesses are vital to the American economy. Under President
Trump's leadership, small business optimism is at an all-time
high and that didn't happen by accident. It happened because we
are cutting taxes, reducing burdensome regulations, and
ensuring entrepreneurs have the freedom to grow. These bills
build on all that momentum.
This Committee is dedicated to unleashing American
manufacturing, strengthening our domestic supply chains, and
keeping investment in good paying jobs at home rather than
overseas. These bills reflect those same commitments. We will
meet the needs of small American manufacturers, encourage
greater private investment into critical technologies, and
reinforce support for rural entrepreneurs. Additionally, these
bills hold fraudsters accountable to preserve taxpayer trust.
Members of this Committee on both sides of the aisle have
been working tirelessly to get these bills to where they are
today. I look forward to working with my colleagues so we can
continue to pass meaningful legislation that empowers small
businesses and strengthens our communities.
With that, I look forward to today's markup and yield to
the distinguished Ranking Member from New York, Ms. Velazquez.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
markup to discuss policies that will strengthen the services
SBA provides to America's 35 million small businesses.
Today we will consider four bipartisan bills negotiated in
good faith and in the spirit of collaboration. First, the
Investing in All of America Act of 2025, as amended, will give
small business investment companies, or SBICs, additional
leverage when they invest in small businesses in rural or
underserved communities, small manufacturers, or small
businesses critical to our national security.
Second, the Office of Rural Affairs Enhancement Act will
empower the SBA's Office of Rural Affairs by elevating its
leader's role to that of an Assistant administrator and
requiring the office to host webinars and outreach events.
Third, the SBA Fraud Enforcement Extension Act would hold
fraudsters accountable for exploiting pandemic relief programs
intended for America's small restaurants and performance venues
by extending the statute of limitation for fraud offenses.
And fourth, the SBA IT Modernization Reform Act of 2025
would require SBA to implement 11 recommendations made by the
Government Accountability Office to reform future IT
modernization projects.
These four bills make commonsense policy changes that will
meaningfully make the SBA a stronger resource for small
businesses across the country. I am proud to support them and I
thank my colleagues on both sides of the aisle for their hard
work and thoughtful discussion to get these bills to a good
place.
Unfortunately, we were not able to reach an agreement on
the Made in America Manufacturing Finance of 2025. On the
surface the idea may sound good, but with any bill you must get
past the message and do the due diligence on the policy. I,
however, I am not ruling out further negotiations over the
summer provided you work with us to raise loan limits for small
manufacturers in a way that maintain the integrity of SBA
lending programs and protects taxpayers' dollars.
Thank you and I yield back.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much. Does any other Member
seek recognition for the purpose of making an opening
statement?
H.R. 2066
Seeing none, we will now move to consideration of the first
bill. Consideration of H.R. 2066, Investing in All of America
Act of 2025. The committee now moves to consideration of H.R.
2066, the Investing in all of America Act of 2025, introduced
by Representatives Meuser and Scholten. The clerk will report
the bill.
The CLERK. H.R. 2066, a bill to amend----
Mr. STAUBER. Without objection, H.R. 2066 is considered as
read and open for amendment.
The bill sponsor, Mr. Meuser, has an amendment in the
nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has been
distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R.
2066 offered by Mr. Meuser.
Mr. STAUBER. Without objection, the amendment is considered
as read and the substitute will be considered as base text for
the purpose of further amendment.
I now recognize the bill sponsor, Mr. Meuser, for a
statement on the bill and the amendment.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My bipartisan legislation, H.R. 2066, the Investing in All
of America Act, would incentivize small business investment
companies, SBICs, to deploy additional capital to small
businesses located in rural or low-income areas, as well as
small businesses in manufacturing and national security
technology sectors. SBICs are privately owned and managed
investment funds that are licensed and regulated by the SBA.
These companies raise private capital which is then matched
with SBA guaranteed leverage. SBICs invest both their private
capital and SBA leverage into qualifying small businesses and
communities across the country. Importantly, the SBIC program
operates at zero subsidy cost to the American taxpayer.
Over the past 2 decades, SBIC backed businesses have
created 3 million new jobs and supported an additional 10.5
million jobs over the last 2 decades. Over the last 5 years,
SBIC has invested over $130 billion in small businesses across
America, including $1.3 billion in my home state of
Pennsylvania.
Though the SBIC program is successful, recent studies have
shown that less than 20 percent of SBIC investments reaches
low- to middle-income communities, especially rural ones. The
Investing in All America Act encourages private capital
investments in parts of America that are often overlooked by
not counting dollars invested in these areas against individual
SBIC's leverage cap.
It is important to note that the bonus leverage included in
this legislation does not change the cost or the risks of the
SBIC program. The existing model operates at no cost to the
taxpayer and this will remain the same.
The Trump Administration SBA Administrator Kelly Loeffler
are focused on fueling small business growth and reinvigorating
domestic manufacturing throughout the United States. This
legislation supports that effort by encouraging increased
private investment in the manufacturing sector. By expanding
access to capital and reducing barriers to entry, this
legislation helps manufacturers scale operations and create
high-quality American jobs.
Before I conclude, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask
unanimous consent to insert a letter into the record from the
Small Business Investor Alliance in support of this
legislation.
Mr. STAUBER. Without objection.
Mr. MEUSER. Thank you. I would also like to thank
Representative Scholten for her partnership on this legislation
and the bipartisan group of Members who have cosponsored it. I
would also like to thank Chairman Williams for bringing this
bill forward for consideration today.
This legislation will have the tangible positive impacts we
plan for them to have for our communities. A similar version of
this legislation passed this committee and house unanimously
last Congress. So I encourage my colleagues to support this
legislation.
And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. STAUBER. I now recognize the bill's cosponsor, Ms.
Scholten, for a statement on the bill and the amendment.
Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am so proud to speak
on my bill, the Investing in All of America Act, which I am so
proud to cosponsor with Mr. Meuser.
Michigan is home to almost 1 million small businesses. That
is 99.6 percent of all privately owned businesses in the state.
On any given day the issue of access to capital is among the
greatest challenges for our small businesses. For low-income or
rural communities and small manufacturers, this issue hits even
closer to home.
Recent studies have shown that less than 20 percent of
small business investment companies, their funds, are reaching
these communities. For a program with a long history of
success, this disparity is unacceptable and it is incumbent
upon us in this committee to remedy the program so it serves
small businesses in every corner of our country. That is why I
am so proud to lead the Investing in All of America Act, which
would incentivize the deployment of additional capital to the
communities and small manufacturers that need it most.
Simply put, this bill would exclude certain amounts of
leverage invested in these businesses from the SBIC's leverage
cap. This bill will enable further support for small businesses
and underserved communities in addition to small manufacturers
and other businesses in critical manufacturing sectors. This
bipartisan solution would bolster the SBIC's program success as
a zero subsidy public-private partnership by encouraging
investments in rural areas and industries that are vital to the
nation's defense both here in West Michigan and across the
country. It is critical that these businesses can get the
investment they need to continue growing our economy. I
strongly urge Members to vote yes on this important
legislation.
Thank you, Chair. I yield the rest of my time.
Mr. STAUBER. Thank you. Are there any other Members who
wish to be recognized for a statement on the bill?
Seeing none, I would now like to recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on the bill and the amendment.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Stauber. And thank you to
Representatives Meuser and Scholten for your bipartisan
leadership on this bill.
H.R. 2066 makes statutory improvements to the SBIC program
to provide SBICs with access to additional leverage when they
invest in certain sectors. Due to their often capital-intensive
nature and early revenue profile, small businesses operating in
America's critical technology sector need institutional
investors with longer term time horizons to raise capital. Yet
due to statutory constraint, these investors are often limited
in their ability to participate in the SBIC program.
By providing SBICs with additional leverage flexibility,
H.R. 2066 more appropriately matches the SBIC program with the
capital needs for America's small businesses in critical
sectors. This alignment will enable the SBA and Defense
Department to continue to successfully carry out their joint
SBIC critical technology initiative. And by providing SBICs
with additional bonus leverage, we are encouraging investment
in small businesses in our communities that need it the most.
I again want to thank both Representatives Meuser and
Scholten for their leadership on this issue. I also want to
thank Chairman Williams and his team for their collaboration on
technical edits to this bill. I believe through the effort of
all parties, we have gotten this bill to a good place. I am
proud to support it and encourage Members to vote yes.
I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. [Presiding.] Thank you. I now recognize
myself to speak in support of this legislation for 5 minutes.
One of the most significant barriers to economic growth
across our country is the lack of access to capital for small
businesses. While some regions and industries are flush with
investment, too many small businesses struggle to secure the
funding they need to grow. H.R. 2066, the investing in All of
America Act, is a bipartisan, commonsense bill that strengthens
one of the federal government's most successful public-private
partnerships, the Small Business Investment Company Program, or
SBIC. This program was created to unlock private capital and
fuel small business growth.
SBICs are privately managed investment funds licensed and
regulated by the SBA. The SBA provides government-guaranteed
funding to qualified SBICs to increase investments in small
businesses. This bill would further strengthen the SBIC program
by encouraging investments in rural areas, American
manufacturing, and critical national security technologies.
Additionally, this bill directs no new spending and
mandates, allowing the program to continue operating at zero
cost to the taxpayer. With these improvements, SBIC could
unleash nearly 20 billion into American small businesses,
expand operations and drive job creation across America.
I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 2066, and I yield
back.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
If none--seeing none, the question now occurs on the
adoption of the substitute amendment offered to H.R. 2066 by
Mr. Meuser.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. The
amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 2066 is
adopted.
The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 2066, as
amended, to the House.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and H.R.
2066 is agreed to.
Yes. For what purpose does the gentleman seek recognition?
Mr. MEUSER. I would like to request a recorded vote.
Ms. KING-HINDS. A recorded vote has been requested. A roll
call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and House
rule XI, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
H.R. 4549
The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 4549, the
Office of Rural Affairs Enhancement Act, introduced by
Representatives Goodlander and Wied. The clerk will report the
bill.
The CLERK. H.R. 4549, a bill----
Ms. KING-HINDS. Without objection, H.R. 4549 is considered
as read and open for amendment.
I now recognize the sponsor of the bill, Mrs. Goodlander,
for a statement on the bill.
Ms. GOODLANDER. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member
Velazquez. Thank you for the opportunity to speak about this
bill.
I am very proud to sponsor the Office of Rural Affairs
Enhancement Act. This is a bipartisan, commonsense bill that is
going to ensure the voices of rural America aren't just heard,
but they are prioritized within the Small Business
Administration. Look, this bill comes directly from
conversations that I have had with rural small businesses all
across my home state, New Hampshire. Everywhere I go, from
Chesterfield to Colebrook, I hear the same basic thing from so
many small rural businesses: that federal programs designed to
help them are simply not tailored to their needs and, even more
often, they fail to be able to reach them at all. I have heard
this from farmers in Loudon as recently as Saturday, from
retailers in Lisbon, small manufacturing businesses in Swanzey,
and loggers in West Stewartstown.
Thirty-five years ago, in 1990, the Office of Rural Affairs
was created to address this precise set of problems. But what
we have seen over the last 35 years is that this office has
underperformed. It has been chronically understaffed and under-
resourced. It needs clear direction. It needs stronger tools to
really be able to do what we all want to do, which is to
deliver for our rural small businesses. And that is exactly
what our bill aims to do.
It ensures that the office is led by someone with direct
experience in rural economic development. This is a big core
pillar, which is accountability. It requires annual reporting
to Congress, which is going to be very valuable reporting that
will help us track and keep this office accountable with
respect to impact and improvement. And it is also going to
improve access. This bill mandates regular outreach to small
businesses in meaningful ways that are going to ensure that the
Small Business Administration is meeting small businesses in
rural America precisely where they are.
So this bill is about accountability, it is about access,
and above all, it is about basic fairness, basic fairness for
rural America's entrepreneurs and small businesses who are far
too often forgotten, who have been unheard for far too long,
and who have so much to offer our great country. So in passing
this bill, we are saying--we would be saying clearly to our
rural small businesses, we see you, we hear you, and we are
fighting for you.
So I urge all of my colleagues to join me in supporting the
Office of Rural Affairs Enhancement Act. And I want to thank my
colleague from the great state of Wisconsin, Tony Wied, for
partnering with me in this bipartisan effort.
And with that, I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Are there any other Members who wish to be
recognized for a statement on the bill?
Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member
to speak on the bill and amendment.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to
support legislation to enhance the Office of Rural Affairs, and
I commend Ms. Goodlander, Mr. Wied, and Mr. Golden for their
commitment to making this office operate more effectively for
rural small businesses.
In 2019, Mr. Golden, as a former Member of the Small
Business Committee, raised this as one of his top priorities
for the Committee. Because the office has been largely vacant
for 15 years, he worked to ensure resources were devoted to the
office. Similar legislation was approved by the Committee in
the last Congress. I am delighted that Ms. Goodlander is
championing it this Congress.
Rural small businesses are powerful drivers of economic
growth across the country, fueling the agriculture, tourism,
manufacturing, and energy sectors. Yet they receive
disproportionately fewer SBA loans and resources than their
urban counterparts. In fiscal year 2025, only 16 percent of
7(a) loans and 13 percent of 504 loans got to rural areas.
So, today, we are sending a message to 7(a) lenders and 504
companies that rural America must be taken care of. By
codifying the Office of Rural Affairs, we will ensure that
rural entrepreneurs have a permanent advocate at SBA to help
them overcome persistent challenges. We have heard the
challenges and we know the gaps. Now it is time to act. I urge
my colleagues to vote yes.
I yield back my time.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you, Ranking Member.
I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation for 5 minutes.
I rise in support of H.R. 4549, the Office of Rural Affairs
Enhancement Act. Rural small businesses face distinct and
persistent challenges that often hinder their growth and
sustainability. These challenges include a shortage of business
assistance resources and limited access to capital. This bill
addresses these challenges by clarifying the critical role of
the SBA's Office of Rural Affairs in rural entrepreneurship.
A recurring theme with the Office of Rural Affairs is that
it often goes unused or is ignored at the detriment of many
rural communities. At the heart of this bill is a commitment to
leadership that understands and prioritizes the rural economy.
This bill ensures that the office will be utilized to reach
rural entrepreneurs where they are, Main Street America. These
efforts will strengthen local networks and equip entrepreneurs
with the knowledge and support necessary for long-term growth.
H.R. 4549 is about investing in the future of rural America,
creating jobs, and ensuring resources reach all businesses
across America.
I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I
yield back.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on favorably reporting
H.R. 4549 to the House.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and H.R.
4549 is agreed to.
Mr. MEUSER. Madam Chair?
Ms. KING-HINDS. For what purpose does the gentleman seek
recognition?
Mr. MEUSER. I request a recorded vote.
Ms. KING-HINDS. A recorded vote has been requested. A roll
call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and House
rule XI, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
H.R. 4495
The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 4495, the
SBA Fraud Enforcement Extension Act, introduced by
Representatives Downing and Conaway. The clerk will report the
bill.
The CLERK. H.R. 4495, a bill to extend the statute----
Ms. KING-HINDS. Without objection, H.R. 4495 is considered
as read and open for amendment.
I now recognize the bill sponsor, Mr. Downing, for a
statement on the bill.
Mr. DOWNING. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Over the course of the coronavirus pandemic, the Small
Business Administration carried out an extensive effort
channeling funding to small businesses facing unprecedented
economic challenges. In total, during this period, SBA provided
over $1.2 trillion in emergency loans and grants to small
businesses. Two of these SBA COVID era programs, the Restaurant
Revitalization Fund and the Shuttered Venue Operators Grant,
targeted financial assistance towards businesses that rely on
confined gathering places and were thus disproportionately
harmed by lockdown policies.
While COVID era SBA programs in many cases delivered much
needed aid to small businesses, they were also exploited to an
unacceptable degree by criminals seeking to defraud American
taxpayers and secure illegitimate loans and grants. According
to a 2023 report from the SBA's Office of Inspector General,
SBA distributed over $200 billion in potentially fraudulent
funds in its COVID era programs. This level of fraud undermines
the integrity of the SBA. It is essential that we track these
criminal fraudsters down and hold them accountable.
Notably, the statute of limitations for prosecuting fraud
for SBA's Restaurant Revital Revitalization Fund and the
Shuttered Venue Operators Grant is set to expire in December.
If Congress doesn't act, law enforcement will not be able to
investigate and prosecute these crimes. This is why I
introduced H.R. 4495, the SBA Fraud Enforcement Extension Act.
This bill extends the statute of limitations from 5 years to 10
years for fraud with respect to SBA's Restaurant Revitalization
Fund and Shuttered Venue Operations Grant. This extension will
provide critical time for law enforcement to track down
fraudsters and hold them accountable. Moreover, it will
establish parity with the statute of limitations for fraud for
other SBA COVID era programs, like the Paycheck Protection
Program and the Economic Injury Disasters Loan.
I would like to personally thank my colleague and former
Air Force veteran, Dr. Conaway, for co-leading this legislation
with me. The fraudulent spending of federal taxpayer dollars
undermines our trust in our government. It is essential that
law enforcement is given the proper tools and authority to
punish those who subvert the integrity of the SBA and to ensure
fraudsters face consequences for their actions.
With that, I urge my colleagues to support this
legislation. And, Madam Chair, I yield my time.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you.
I now recognize Mr. Conaway for a statement on the bill.
Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you, Madam Chairman. And thank you
certainly to my friend and fellow Air Force officer, Troy
Downing, for joining me in bringing this, well, this important
program to account for those parts of the program that didn't
work according to the expectations of the American people.
The American people understood very well how important it
is to help during the pandemic. But these are taxpayer dollars,
and the American people expect that those taxpayer dollars are
going to be spent according to the law and that those who
violate the law should be held to account for those
transgressions.
More than 30 million small businesses were negatively
impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. The federal government quite
properly took action in an unprecedented way to ensure that
money flowed into our small businesses, which are so important
to our economy. And over the course of 18 months, the SBA
administered 4 major loan programs and delivered 22 million
loans and grants totaling $1.2 trillion. It is estimated after
the SBA undertook its review and issued a report called ``
Protecting the Integrity of Pandemic Relief Programs,'' an
estimated one-third of that $1.2 trillion went to persons who
fraudulently obtained them and businesses who fraudulently
obtained them.
As of June this year, the Office of Investigator General
has opened 31--I would say just 31 investigations related to
potential fraud in these programs by opening 25 cases in the
Restaurant Relief Program and 6 open cases in the Shuttered
Venue Program. To date, the OIG's efforts have resulted in
charges against 25 individuals with 14 criminal convictions and
more than $61 million in recovery. However, it remains
important for OIG that it has the appropriate amount of time to
process these fraudulent claims and why it is so important that
the Congress act to extend the statute of limitations so that
the SBA and the OIG can get after these fraudsters who have
taken advantage of the largesse and generosity and goodwill of
their fellow citizens here in the United States.
I would note that in the Restaurant Revitalization Fund,
nearly $29 billion was spent in that program. And in the
Shuttered Venues Operators Grant, just about $15 million was
spent in that program.
We understand small businesses in Jersey. It is nearly half
of our jobs are created there. We have tens of thousands of
restaurants and hundreds of thousands of small businesses. They
are very important to our economy. But all of those people, all
of those people work very hard and they want their tax dollars
spent in a way that meets their expectations for a competent
program that is free of fraud. That is the best way, one
certainly good way to eliminate fraud and waste in federal
spending.
So, as has been mentioned, the statute of limitations will
be extended. And I only hope that as we look forward in time
that we will have enough people there to actually get after all
this money and take whatever other steps we need to take to
make sure that these fraudulent funds are returned to the
federal government, so that the people who, through their tax
dollars, support them, can be confident that we are doing the
accountability job we must do here in the government.
Thank you again to my colleague. And thank you, Madam
Chairman, for allowing this bill to move forward.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Are there any other Members who wish to be
recognized for a statement on the bill?
Seeing none, I would like to now recognize the Ranking
Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I would like to
lend my support to the legislation sponsored by Mr. Downing and
Dr. Conaway. I commend both of you for working together to
extend the statute of limitations from 5 years to 10 years for
the additional COVID programs.
This bill is a good complement to the one former Ranking
Member Leutkemeyer and myself enacted into law for the PPP and
EIDL. During the pandemic, the SBA executed 14 years of lending
in 14 days to help keep small businesses stay afloat. This
program helped millions of small businesses across the country.
Unsurprisingly, there was fraud committed by bad actors looking
to take advantage of our work to assist entrepreneurs in their
time of need. While we may never know the full extent of that
fraud, we do know for certain that the majority of that fraud
took place in the first 9 months of the pandemic.
To combat fraud, the previous administration reinstated the
internal controls in the PPP and EIDL programs and put strong
upfront controls in place for the RRF and SVOG programs. And
for the most part, it worked. Today, the Office of Inspector
General's work has resulted in charges against 25 individuals,
14 criminal convictions, and more than $61 million in recovery.
The OIG has 31 open RRF cases and 6 open SVOG cases. While
these numbers may seem modest, each case is complex, involving
layered transactions, full documentations, and financial
concealment. These cases take time to investigate and
prosecute, and we owe it to the experts doing the work to give
them the tools they need.
But I will be remiss if I didn't mention that extending the
statute of limitations is only part of the equation. We also
need to provide full funding so that they have the resources to
root out fraud. And we cannot talk about fraud and then look
the other way while the administrator cuts the agency staff by
43 percent. More than 100 employees were reviewing these cases'
awards to ensure the money were used in accordance with the
terms of the grant. And despite multiple requests for
information about staff cuts, we do not know whether SBA
retained these employees. Without sufficient funds dedicated to
oversight and investigative staff, SBA and the OIG may not be
able to fully recover the monies.
In closing, I commend Mr. Downing and Mr. Conaway for
leading this effort and support the bill. I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you.
I now recognize myself to speak in support of this
legislation for 5 minutes.
H.R. 4495 is essential to extend the soon to expire statute
of limitations for two pandemic era relief programs, Shuttered
Venue Operators Grants and Restaurant Revitalization Fund.
First, I want to thank my colleagues across the aisle and their
staff for working with us to deliver this important piece of
legislation.
Taxpayer dollars should be protected at all costs.
Unfortunately, fraudsters, too many fraudsters stole COVID
relief funds from small businesses across the country. These
fraudsters hope that the statute of limitations for their
crimes pass, allowing them to skirt justice. We cannot let this
happen. This Committee is committed to holding fraudsters
accountable.
Earlier this year, the House passed H.R. 825, the Assisting
Small Businesses, Not Fraudsters Act. Once passed by the Senate
and signed into law, that bill will cut off the ability for the
same individuals to have access to the agency that they
defrauded.
The Ranking Member led the charge in the 117th Congress to
hold fraudsters accountable in the Paycheck Protection Program
and COVID Economic Injury Disaster Loans. I am glad this
bipartisan effort will do the same for SVOG and RRF programs.
This legislation sends a clear message that the era of taking
advantage of the American taxpayer is over.
I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I
yield back.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on favorably reporting
H.R. 4495 to the House.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. H.R. 4495 is
agreed to.
Mr. DOWNING. Madam Chair?
Ms. KING-HINDS. For what purpose does the gentleman seek
recognition?
Mr. DOWNING. Madam Chair, I request a recorded vote.
Ms. KING-HINDS. A vote has been requested. Pursuant to
Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further proceedings on the
bill are postponed.
H.R. 4491
All right. The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R.
4491, the SBA IT Modernization Reporting Act, introduced by
Representatives Cisneros and Jack. The clerk will report the
bill.
The CLERK. H.R. 4491, a bill to require the Administrator--
--
Ms. KING-HINDS. Without objection, H.R. 4491 is considered
as read and open for amendment.
I now recognize--is Mr. Cisneros available? He is? I now
recognize the bill's sponsor, Mr. Cisneros, for a statement on
the bill.
Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank
the Chairman and the Ranking Member for the support on this.
I am proud this committee can work in a bipartisan manner
so that SBA can modernize its IT infrastructure and improve its
services to small business. I thank Representative Jack for
joining me in introducing this SBA IT Modernization Reporting
Act, which will require the SBA to implement 11 recommendations
made by the Government Accounting Office to address future IT
modernization projects and keep Congress informed of those
changes.
Billions of dollars in federal contracts are awarded to
small businesses every year, and the SBA plays a vital role in
promoting small business participation. But over the years, the
SBA's outdated and inefficient IT systems have made it harder
for entrepreneurs to access the resources they need. A recent
GAO report identified critical gaps in the SBA's modernization
efforts, from risk management to cybersecurity and budgeting.
Going forward, it is important for our small businesses that
the SBA follow best practices when modernizing IT systems.
My bill directly addresses these issues by requiring the
SBA Administrator to implement 11 GAO recommendations. It also
mandates a clear plan of action and ensures that we in Congress
are kept in the loop by ensuring we receive a copy of the
implementation plan, a briefing on the plan, and the details
and timeline for all actions within the plan. This means better
oversight, better execution, and, most importantly, better
service by the SBA for all small businesses.
I worked across the aisle with Rep. Jack to introduce this
common sense bipartisan legislation, which shows that
modernizing how the SBA works is not a partisan issue. Together
we can ensure that the SBA is prepared to meet the evolving
needs of small businesses. I urge my colleagues to support this
bill to ensure we give the SBA modern tools it needs to support
the success of America's small businesses.
And with that, I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Are there any other Members who wish to be
recognized for a statement on the bill?
Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member
to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to
Representatives Cisnero and Jack for your work on this
important bill.
After repeated, unsuccessful attempts to develop and deploy
a platform that will be a one-stop shop for contracting
certifications, I asked GAO to review SBA efforts and figure
out why they failed. An efficient and fully operational IT
platform is critical for the SBA to conduct the certifications
that open the door to the federal marketplace for so many small
businesses. While I urge SBA to address the shortcomings GAO
identified for the Unified Certification Platform, I appreciate
that today's bill addresses ``the underlying issue that GAO
highlighted'' SBA does not have the processes and procedures in
place that should govern any IT modernization project.
Failing to use best practices to manage risk, costs, and
security wastes taxpayers' dollars and puts the information
small businesses have provided to SBA at risk. The SBA IT
Modernization Reporting Act will ensure that the SBA addresses
the root causes that lead IT projects to fall behind schedule,
increase cost, or outright fail.
Again, I appreciate the leadership of our Contracting
Subcommittee Ranking Member Representative Cisnero to move this
bill. It strikes the right balance of providing SBA with
sufficient flexibility to make necessary changes while holding
them accountable through smart congressional oversight.
I urge all my colleagues to support it, and I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you. I now recognize myself to speak
in support of this legislation for 5 minutes.
I rise in support of H.R. 4491, the SBA IT Modernization
Reporting Act. Under the Biden Administration, mismanagement of
the SBA was an all-time high. This was evident with last year's
disastrous overhaul of SBA's contract certification system.
This Committee raised the alarm over the unorganized plan with
no internal controls and guardrails to ensure small businesses
don't suffer. While the SBA delayed the launch of the contract
certification system for months, they ignored our concerns. The
Biden-Harris SBA left a final product with serious flaws,
including cybersecurity risks.
Late last year, the GAO reviewed these failures and issued
a series of recommendations to strengthen the SBA's policies
around IT system upgrades. This bill requires the SBA to
implement these recommendations and establish a plan for proper
safeguards. This will prevent future disruptions and restore
trust in the SBA's ability to serve small businesses
efficiently and securely.
I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I
yield back.
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question is now on favorably reporting
H.R. 4491 to the House.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. H.R. 4491 is
agreed to.
Mr. SCHMIDT. Madam Chair?
Ms. KING-HINDS. For what purpose does the gentleman seek
recognition?
Mr. SCHMIDT. Madam Chair, I request a recorded vote.
Mr. STAUBER. A recorded vote has been requested. A roll
call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and House
rule XI, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
H.R. 3174
Ms. KING-HINDS. The Committee now moves into consideration
of H.R. 3174, the Made in America Manufacturing Finance Act,
introduced by Chairman Williams. The clerk will report the
bill.
The CLERK. H.R. 3174, a bill to increase loan lending----
Mr. STAUBER. Without objection, H.R. 3174 is considered as
read and open for amendment.
As designated by Chairman Williams, I now call up an
amendment in the nature of a substitute at the desk on his
behalf. The amendment has been distributed in advance. The
clerk will report the amendment.
The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R.
3174 offered by Mr. Williams.
Mr. STAUBER. Without objection, the amendment is considered
as read and the substitute will be considered as base text for
the purposes of further amendment.
I now recognize myself for an opening statement on the
Chairman's bill and the amendment.
I am proud to speak about H.R. 3174, the Made in America
Manufacturing Finance Act of 2025, or MAMFA for short, a bill
that the Chairman introduced on May 1, 2025. H.R. 3174 will
increase the loan limit for small manufacturers under the SBA
7(a) and 504 lending programs from 5 million to 10 million
dollars. This bill will provide American manufacturers the
capital they need to invest in new technology as well as hire,
grow, and reshore jobs that have been lost.
In the last year of President Biden's term, the U.S. lost
over 100,000 manufacturing jobs. While this alone is
staggering, the decline of the American manufacturing sector
did not happen overnight. It is the result of America last
policies that carelessly shipped jobs overseas, opening the
door for foreign adversaries to fill the void. We must reverse
this trend which will require more than just luck.
The ability to manufacture in the United States is vital to
our country's economic and national security. President Trump
understands this. As part of his administration's priorities,
he has been championing pro-growth and pro-American policies
that are fueling a domestic manufacturing comeback. I would
like to thank FSGG Chairman Dave Joyce and his staff for
working with the Committee to provide additional loan authority
for small manufacturers to account for H.R. 3174 in the FSGG
bill approved by the Subcommittee yesterday.
H.R. 3174 is essential to keep pace with demand for capital
and bringing jobs back to the United States. That is why SBA
Administrator Loeffler and manufacturing and lending
stakeholders have come out in support of this bill.
Some on the other side of the aisle plan to oppose this
bill, claiming that it will add risk to the SBA's loan
portfolio. But the truth is that SBA's modeling shows that the
7(a) loan fee structure would actually return more fees to the
SBA and help ensure the programs remains zero subsidized,
costing the taxpayers nothing.
The Chairman has worked very hard on this legislation and
wishes he could be here to speak in support of it. I urge my
colleagues to support H.R. 3174, a crucial piece of legislation
that will support small businesses and revitalize the American
manufacturing base.
I now recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill.
Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Madam Chair.
One of my longstanding legislative priorities for
modernizing this 504 program raises the 504 loan limit for
small manufacturers. But more can be done and I look forward to
continuing discussions to further strengthen the program.
Turning to 7(a), last Congress we heard concern from our
colleagues on the other side of the aisle about rising default
rates. I share those anxieties and have since been working to
better understand the situation. But apparently, we are
dismissing the default rates and just ignoring all the data we
have worked diligently to collect. I would like to reach an
agreement, but it will take more time and more evidence to
ensure we are protecting the program and taxpayers. I am
committed to continuing our discussions to make thoughtful
modifications after additional briefings with the agency. But
let me just lay out some concerns with the text as drafted.
Perhaps most frustrating is the fact that there is no
evidence to demonstrate that the 7(a) loan limit needs to be
increased. In fact, SBA data shows the opposite. There is
greater demand for manufacturing loans of $1 million and less
than there is for loans greater than $3 million. Since 2023,
there has been over 6,300 manufacturing loans worth $1 million
or less, but only 362 loans worth more than $3 million. Maybe
there could be a demand now that we have erratic tariff
policies harming domestic manufacturers. Unfortunately, we do
not know what the need is nor evidence that manufacturers
cannot access financing in our conventional markets required by
the credit elsewhere test. This remains amongst the questions I
need answer from SBA.
And I recognize the loan limits haven't been increased
since 2010 and admit there is a conversation to be had on that
topic. However, neither the SBA nor the majority have justified
in any way how they arrived at the $10 million limit. Instead,
this number just seemed to be plucked out of thin air and well
beyond the adjustment for inflation.
More importantly, raising the loan limits does not happen
in a vacuum. Defaults have increased annually for the last 3
years and stands at 3.7 percent. More alarming, the 7(a) loans
originated to manufacturers have the second highest percentage
of defaults in the program. And I want to repeat that. More
alarming, 7(a) loans originated to manufacturers have the
second highest percentage of defaults in the program.
The 7(a) program is zero subsidy. But when defaults are
rising, like they are now, the SBA spends more taxpayer money
to reimburse lenders for losses threatening the program's
ability to pay for itself and necessitating additional
congressional spending. We are on track to reach the overall
program cap for the 7(a) program and my fear is that increasing
the loan limit for manufacturers risks allowing this loan to
use up a disproportionate share of the lending authority, which
could result in fewer small dollar loans.
I recognize that the House FSGG appropriations bill
proposes an increase to the 7(a) cap and I appreciate Mr.
Williams efforts on this point. But that is just the first step
in a lengthy appropriation process and there is no guarantee if
there will be an increase at all. I remain committed to working
together to find agreement on raising small business loans for
manufacturers, but must be done in a responsible way and not at
the expense of the program's integrity. Chairman Williams and I
have agreed to continue working together on this measure in an
effort to make the bill as strong as possible.
With that, I yield back.
Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you. Are there any other Members who
wish to be recognized for a statement on the bill?
Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
Seeing none, the question now occurs on the adoption of the
substitute amendment offered to H.R. 3174.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. The
amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 3174 is
adopted.
The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 3174, as
amended, to the House.
All those in favor, say aye.
All those opposed, say no.
In the opinion of Chair, the ayes have it. H.R. 3174, as
amended, is adopted and will be reported favorably to the
House.
The Committee will stand in recess subject to the call of
the Chair. Members, please return at 11 p.m. to resume
consideration of the bills--11 a.m., 11 a.m. to resume
consideration of the bills on which roll call votes were
requested and postponed.
[Recess.]
Mr. STAUBER. [Presiding.] The Committee will come to order.
The Committee will resume consideration of the bills on which
roll call votes were requested and postponed. We will start
with H.R. 2066.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 2066, as amended, and
ordering it favorably to the House. The clerk will open the
vote.
[The vote was taken.]
Mr. STAUBER. Are there any other Members who have not voted
or wish to change their vote?
If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will
report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote the ayes are 23 and
the noes are 0.
Mr. STAUBER. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 2066, as
amended, is adopted and will be reported favorably to the
House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4549 and ordering it
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
[The vote was taken.]
Mr. STAUBER. Are there any other Members who have not voted
or wish to change their vote?
If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will
report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote the ayes are 23 and
the noes are 0.
Mr. STAUBER. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 4549 is
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4495 and ordering it
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
[The vote was taken.]
Mr. STAUBER. Are there any other Members who have not voted
or wish to change their vote?
If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will
report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote the ayes are 23 and
the noes are 0.
Mr. STAUBER. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 4495 is
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
The question now is on adopting H.R. 4491 and ordering it
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
[The vote was taken.]
Mr. STAUBER. Are there any other Members who have not voted
or wish to change the vote?
If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will
report.
The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote the ayes are 23 and
the noes are 0.
Mr. STAUBER. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 4491 is
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
Without objection, the Committee staff is authorized to
make technical and conforming changes. And Members have 2
business days to file additional supplemental, dissenting, and
minority views.
I want to thank all of you for being here today. If there
is no further business, this concludes today's markup.
Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:07 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]
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