[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                       THE FUTURE OF CONSTITUENT
                        ENGAGEMENT WITH CONGRESS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON MODERNIZATION
                             AND INNOVATION

                                 OF THE

                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           December 17, 2025

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      

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                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                          
                   COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION

                    BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman

LAUREL LEE, Florida, Vice Chair      JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia                 Ranking Member
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia         TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          NORMA TORRES, California
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             JULIE JOHNSON, Texas
MARY MILLER, Illinois
MIKE CAREY, Ohio

                       Mike Platt, Staff Director
                  Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director

                                 ------                                

              SUBCOMMITTEE ON MODERNIZATION AND INNOVATION

                  STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma, Chairwoman

MIKE CAREY, Ohio                     NORMA TORRES, California,
                                          Ranking Member
                                     JOSEPH MORELLE, New York

               Jordan Wilson, Subcommittee Staff Director
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                           Opening Statements

Chairwoman Stephanie Bice, Representative from the State of 
  Oklahoma.......................................................     1
    Prepared statement of Chairwoman Stephanie Bice..............     3
Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Modernization and 
  Innovation Norma Torres, Representative from the State of 
  California.....................................................     3
    Prepared statement of Ranking Member Norma Torres............     4
Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on House Administration Joseph 
  Morelle, Representative from the State of New York.............    68
    Prepared statement of Ranking Member Joseph Morelle..........    69

                               Witnesses

Dr. Michael Neblo, professor, The Ohio State Institute for 
  Democratic Engagement and Accountability.......................     6
    Prepared statement of Dr. Michael Neblo......................     9
Mrs. Aubrey Wilson, Director of Global Initiatives, POPVOX 
  Foundation.....................................................    22
    Prepared statement of Mrs. Aubrey Wilson.....................    24
Dr. Beth Simone Noveck, Chief AI Strategist, State of New Jersey.    34
    Prepared statement of Dr. Beth Simone Noveck.................    36
Mr. Ken Ward, Director of House Digital Services, CAO............    60
    Prepared statement of Mr. Ken Ward...........................    62

                        Questions for the Record

Mr. Ken Ward answers to submitted questions......................    78
Mrs. Aubrey Wilson answers to submitted questions................    84
Michael Neblo and Laura Moses answers to submitted questions.....    96
Dr. Beth Simone Noveck answers to submitted questions............   100

 
           THE FUTURE OF CONSTITUENT ENGAGEMENT WITH CONGRESS

                              ----------                              


                           December 17, 2025

        Subcommittee on Modernization and Innovation,
                 Committee on House Administration,
                                  House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in 
room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Stephanie Bice 
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Bice, Carey, Torres, and Morelle.
    Staff present: Michael Platt, Staff Director; Rachel 
Collins, General Counsel; Abby Salter, Deputy General Counsel; 
Jordan Wilson, Director of Member Services, Modernization and 
Innovation; Marian Currinder, Senior Professional Staff; 
Kristen Monterroso, Director of Operations; Annemarie Cake, 
Professional Staff and Deputy Clerk; Jamie Fleet, Minority 
Staff Director; Sarah Nasta, Minority Senior Advisor and 
Director of Outreach; Kwame Newton, Minority Oversight Counsel.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEPHANIE BICE, CHAIRWOMAN OF THE 
     SUBCOMMITTEE ON MODERNIZATION AND INNOVATION, A U.S. 
                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM OKLAHOMA

    Chairwoman Bice. Good morning. The Subcommittee on 
Modernization and Innovation will come to order.
    The title of today's hearing is ``The Future of Constituent 
Engagement with Congress.'' I note that a quorum is present.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time. Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain 
open for 5 legislative days so that Members may submit any 
materials they wish to be included therein.
    At the beginning of the 119th Congress, we decided to 
update the Subcommittee's name to the Subcommittee on 
Modernization and Innovation. The behind-the-scenes work of 
closing out recommendations made by the Select Committee on 
Modernization continues, but we also need to look forward and 
determine how we can ensure that House technologies and systems 
continue to evolve instead of getting stuck in time. This is 
where innovation comes into play. Bringing Microsoft Copilot 
into the House community is a great example of how the 
Subcommittee is leaning into this work.
    For the past couple of months, we have worked closely with 
the CAO on a comprehensive plan to provide Copilot licenses and 
targeted training to our House staff. As of today, 150 Member 
offices have licenses, and in January, licenses will be 
available to every Member, Committee, Leadership, and House 
support office. Integrating AI technologies into House 
operations is really a game-changing first step in making the 
House a more efficient and effective institution.
    Constituent engagement, the topic of today's hearing, is 
another area that is ripe for innovation. There are all kinds 
of innovative tools and technologies that we could be using 
right now rather than scrambling to play catch-up later.
    Communicating with our constituents is absolutely essential 
for doing our jobs, the jobs we were elected to do. Assisting 
with casework, responding to questions, and explaining our 
positions on the issues of the day requires interacting with 
our constituents in effective and meaningful ways. As we all 
know, the communications landscape is evolving at a rapid pace, 
and there are now many different ways to engage and share 
information.
    Our constituents are exposed to new technologies daily, 
whether they are scheduling appointments, ordering food, or 
using AI tools that work. The forms of communication they 
encounter outside of Congress are much less common inside of 
Congress. Rather than assume that they will read our letters 
and emails, we should figure out how to meet our constituents 
where they are at today, tomorrow, and into the future. If we 
do not begin to incorporate new and emerging technologies and 
platforms into our constituent outreach strategies, we risk 
losing the ability to effectively connect with the people we 
need to hear from the most.
    For decades, the House has relied on a small number of 
constituent management systems, or CMS, for handling Members' 
constituent engagement and outreach needs. While these systems 
have added different features and upgrades over time, I do not 
think that any of us would call these systems cutting edge. 
That is not at all a criticism as much as it is a reflection of 
the fact that the market here is limited and it lacks the kind 
of competition that is typically needed to spark innovation.
    All of this presents us with a real opportunity to 
reimagine constituent engagement. Members represent vastly 
different districts and constituencies, so maybe a, quote, 
build-your-own system makes more sense than a one-size-fits-
all. That way Members could choose technologies and platforms 
that best meet the needs of their districts and constituents.
    More options could encourage real innovation, and that is 
really what we want. I am looking forward to learning more 
about public views on the current and future states of 
constituent engagement as well as what other countries and 
States are doing that is innovative and effective. The 
discussion today will help inform the Subcommittee's 
exploration of how the House can innovate to improve how we 
connect with all of the people that we represent.
    I would now like to recognize Ranking Member Torres for the 
purpose of providing an opening statement.
    [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Bice follows:]

    PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
          MODERNIZATION AND INNOVATION CHAIRWOMAN BICE

    At the beginning of the 119th Congress, we decided to 
update the Subcommittee's name to the Subcommittee on 
Modernization and Innovation. The behind-the-scenes work of 
closing out recommendations made by the Select Committee on 
Modernization continues, but we also need to look forward and 
figure out how to ensure that the House's technologies and 
systems continue to evolve instead of getting stuck in time. 
This is where innovation comes into play. Bringing Microsoft 
Copilot to the House community is a great example of how the 
Subcommittee is leaning into this work.
    For the past couple of months, we have worked closely with 
the CAO on a comprehensive plan to provide Copilot licenses and 
targeted training to House staff. As of today, 150 Member 
offices have licenses and in January, licenses will be 
available to every Member, Committee, Leadership, and House 
support office. Integrating AI technologies into House 
operations is a game-changing first step in making the House a 
more efficient and effective institution.
    Constituent engagement, the topic of today's hearing, is 
another area that is ripe for innovation. There are all kinds 
of innovative tools and technologies that we could be using 
now, rather than scrambling to play catch-up later. 
Communicating with our constituents is absolutely essential for 
doing the jobs we were elected to do. Assisting with casework, 
responding to questions, and explaining our positions on the 
issues of the day requires interacting with our constituents in 
effective and meaningful ways. As we all know, the 
communications landscape is evolving at a rapid pace and there 
are now many different ways to engage and share information.
    Our constituents are exposed to new technologies daily, 
whether they are scheduling appointments, ordering food, or 
using AI tools at work. The forms of communication they 
encounter outside of Congress are much less common inside of 
Congress. Rather than assume they'll read our letters and 
emails, we should figure out how to meet our constituents where 
they are at today, tomorrow, and in the future. If we do not 
begin incorporating new and emerging technologies and platforms 
into our constituent outreach strategies, we risk losing the 
ability to effectively connect with the people we need to hear 
from most.
    For decades, the House has relied on a small number of 
constituent management systems (CMS) for handling Members' 
constituent engagement and outreach needs. While these systems 
have added different features and upgrades over time, I do not 
think any of us would call them ``cutting edge.'' That is not a 
criticism as much as it's a reflection of the fact that the 
market here is very limited and lacks the kind of competition 
that is typically needed to spark innovation.
    All of this presents us with a real opportunity to 
reimagine constituent engagement. Members represent vastly 
different districts and constituencies so maybe a ``build-your-
own'' system makes more sense than a ``one-size-fits-all'' 
system. That way, Members could choose technologies and 
platforms that best meet the needs of their districts and 
constituents. More options could encourage real innovation and 
that is what we want.
    I am looking forward to learning more about public views on 
the current and future states of constituent engagement, as 
well as what other countries and States are doing that is 
innovative and effective. The discussion today will help inform 
the Subcommittee's exploration of how the House can innovate to 
improve how we connect with the people we represent.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. NORMA TORRES, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
     SUBCOMMITTEE ON MODERNIZATION AND INNOVATION, A U.S. 
                 REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA

    Mrs. Torres. Good morning, everyone. Thank you, Chairwoman 
Bice, and thank you so much to our distinguished witnesses for 
taking the time to share your insights with us today.
    I am glad to be here working together with my colleagues on 
these--and experts on the most fundamental goals of an elected 
Representative. How can we listen to our constituents, and how 
can we build the trust that we need with them?
    I worry that faith in Government is broken. We know that 
too many people feel like their Government fails them, that we 
just simply do not listen to them, that they do not hear from 
us, they do not unders--we do not understand their complicated 
lives, and that whatever we do does not help them with their 
challenges. When they do reach out to us, they feel--will they 
feel heard? I am not sure that that is a true statement. I 
think that at least the constituents in my district want to 
feel that there is a human on the other side representing them.
    I represent a district about an hour east of Los Angeles, 
where Latinos make up more than two-thirds of the population. 
At a time when Americans need to be able to connect with their 
elected Representatives in a straightforward, efficient way, 
the disconnect between Washington and my constituents in the 
Inland Empire can often feel as an uncrossable divide.
    This hearing is an opportunity to confront the reality of 
record low trust in Government and determine how Congress can 
improve its approach to constituent engagement through 
modernization and innovation. What I do believe is that we need 
to meet people where they are. The goal is to create systems 
that make it easier for people to be heard. We need tools to 
better listen, to better hear the American people, and to 
better serve them.
    I must say very loud and clear that a faster system that 
still excludes people is not progress. We need to design tools 
that are accessible, transparent, and responsible to the lived 
experiences of our constituents. These new methods of 
engagement must also protect constituents' privacy and personal 
information when necessary.
    If Congress is serious about strengthening democracy and 
encouraging civic participation, we must build the tools that 
do not just work on paper in Washington, but they actually work 
in our communities. These tools need to work in practice for 
every American who needs to be heard, because when a 
constituent finally takes that step to reach out to their 
Government, that moment matters. How we respond may determine 
whether they ever try again.
    A good example of a broken system--and that is not just 
here in Congress--this year, as of August of this year, we had 
returned over $23 million to our constituents. We can say 
congratulations to my office, to my employees, to the 
caseworkers. I want to look at it as a failure of agencies that 
have failed to respond in a timely manner and a respectful 
manner and have failed to truly hear the needs of that 
constituent. Shouldn't take a Member of Congress to have to 
play lobbyist for our constituents. If they deserve certain 
benefits, they should get them. A system that could help me 
deliver even more money to my constituents is what I am here 
for.
    I am going to turn it back to our chairwoman, and I look 
forward to listening to the conversation today.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Torres follows:]

  PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
           MODERNIZATION AND INNOVATION NORMA TORRES

    I am glad to be here working together with my colleagues on 
these--and experts on the most fundamental goals of an elected 
Representative. How can we listen to our constituents, and how 
can we build the trust that we need with them? I worry that 
faith in Government is broken. We know that too many people 
feel like their Government fails them, that we just simply do 
not listen to them, that they do not hear from us, they do not 
understand we do not understand their complicated lives, and 
that whatever we do does not help them with their challenges. 
When they do reach out to us, they feel--will they feel heard? 
I am not sure that that is a true statement. I think that at 
least the constituents in my district want to feel that there 
is a human on the other side representing them.
    I represent a district about an hour east of Los Angeles, 
where Latinos make up more than two-thirds of the population. 
At a time when Americans need to be able to connect with their 
elected Representatives in a straightforward, efficient way, 
the disconnect between Washington and my constituents in the 
Inland Empire can often feel as an uncrossable divide.
    This hearing is an opportunity to confront the reality of 
record low trust in Government and determine how Congress can 
improve its approach to constituent engagement through 
modernization and innovation. What I do believe is that we need 
to meet people where they are. The goal is to create systems 
that make it easier for people to be heard. We need tools to 
better listen, to better hear the American people, and to 
better serve them. I must say very loud and clear that a faster 
system that still excludes people is not progress. We need to 
design tools that are accessible, transparent, and responsible 
to the lived experiences of our constituents. These new methods 
of engagement must also protect constituents' privacy and 
personal information when necessary.
    If Congress is serious about strengthening democracy and 
encouraging civic participation, we must build the tools that 
do not just work on paper in Washington, but they actually work 
in our communities. These tools need to work in practice for 
every American who needs to be heard, because when a 
constituent finally takes that step to reach out to their 
Government, that moment matters. How we respond may determine 
whether they ever try again.
    A good example of a broken system--and that is not just 
here in Congress--this year, as of August of this year, we had 
returned over $23 million to our constituents. We can say 
congratulations to my office, to my employees, to the 
caseworkers. I want to look at it as a failure of agencies that 
have failed to respond in a timely manner and a respectful 
manner and have failed to truly hear the needs of that 
constituent. Shouldn't take a Member of Congress to have to 
play lobbyist for our constituents. If they deserve certain 
benefits, they should get them. A system that could help me 
deliver even more money to my constituents is what I am here 
for.

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Ranking Member Torres.
    Our first witness is Dr. Michael Neblo, director of the 
Ohio State University Institute for Democratic Engagement and 
Accountability, IDEA, an alumni-endowed professor at Okla--I am 
sorry--at Ohio State University. I have Oklahoma State 
University on the brain. I just graduated a child from there on 
Saturday, so my apologies--at Ohio State University.
    Dr. Neblo has designed ``Deliberative Town Halls'' for the 
U.S. Congress, the Chilean Constitutional Convention, and the 
Australian, Nigerian, and U.K. legislatures. He has further 
projects planned for Malawi, Korea, and the European Parliament 
and Commission.
    Our next witness is Ms. Aubrey Wilson. Aubrey is Director 
of Global Initiatives for the nonpartisan, nonprofit 
organization POPVOX Foundation. In this role, she leads the 
Digital Parliaments Project, which is focused on directly 
assisting legislatures around the world in adopting technology 
to improve operations, transparency, and continuity. In recent 
years, this work has had a heavy emphasis on AI, leading Aubrey 
to present AI training to parliamentarians around the world.
    Prior to joining POPVOX, Aubrey served as a deputy staff 
director and director of oversight and modernization for the 
Committee on House Administration. Welcome back.
    Our next witness is Dr. Beth Noveck. Dr. Noveck is the 
chief AI strategist for the State of New Jersey and the founder 
of InnovateUS, which delivers free AI training to States and 
cities across the United States. Her newest book is ``Reboot: 
The Race to Save Democracy with AI,'' that will appear with the 
Yale Press this summer.
    Our final witness is Ken Ward, senior director of House 
Digital Services. Drawing from his Hill experience and computer 
science degree from Georgetown University, Mr. Ward founded 
Fireside 21 in 2007. He led the company for over a decade as it 
deployed a broad scope of constituent products still used by 
House offices today. Mr. Ward returned to the Hill in 2020 and 
has since led a team of technologists to deliver high-impact 
technology products for the House community. Welcome. We are 
glad to have you.
    Thank you to the panel of witnesses for all being with us 
today. Please remember to press the button on the microphone in 
front of you so that the green light is on. When you begin to 
speak, the timer in front of you will turn green, and after 4 
minutes it will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your 
5 minutes have expired, and we would ask you to please kindly 
wrap up.
    At this time, I now recognize Dr. Neblo for 5 minutes.

  STATEMENTS OF DR. MICHAEL NEBLO, PROFESSOR, THE OHIO STATE 
 INSTITUTE FOR DEMOCRATIC ENGAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY; MRS. 
     AUBREY WILSON, DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL INITIATIVES, POPVOX 
FOUNDATION; DR. BETH SIMONE NOVECK, CHIEF AI STRATEGIST, STATE 
  OF NEW JERSEY; AND MR. KEN WARD, DIRECTOR OF HOUSE DIGITAL 
                         SERVICES, CAO

                   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL NEBLO

    Mr. Neblo. Chairwoman Bice, Ranking Member Torres, Members 
of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to speak today.
    Our Founders famously established a republic, fearing 
direct democracy would lose sight of the common good. Less 
famously, they feared that if Government were too indirect, 
Congress would lose touch with the common people. They proposed 
capping the number of residents per district. Instead, Congress 
capped the number of districts. Americans today believe 
Congress has lost touch. You represent 280 times the Founders' 
limit. How could you stay in touch?
    This hearing turns that rhetorical question into a real 
question. How could future engagement help you stay in touch? 
How can technology help reconnect Congress to constituents?
    We partnered with this Committee and the House Digital 
Services on a survey of 1,000 citizens to find answers. At 
best, only one in five contacted their Member last year. What 
about the other four? Their silence does not mean they are 
satisfied because only 13 percent trust Congress to do what is 
right. Are they apathetic? No. The vast majority are 
frustrated. They are frustrated because they believe Congress 
does not care what people like them think and only listens to 
organized interests and party activists, so they see no reason 
to engage.
    We have worked with enough offices to know Members care 
very much. As average citizens withdraw, however, only 
organized interests and party activists remain to tell Congress 
what they want. We have fallen into a self-reenforcing cycle.
    There is good news. Governments around the world have used 
new approaches in technology to engage citizens in meaningful 
two-way communication. We could easily adapt them, and citizens 
are eager to try.
    Unlike apathy, frustration creates energy for change. Only 
9 percent of our survey respondents said they would not be 
willing to engage if they were invited to what they thought was 
an authentic and consequential forum. Our research shows that 
is not cheap talk. When we invite ordinary constituents to 
online deliberative town halls, previously disengaged citizens 
prepare, show up, and contribute more than those who already 
call your office. They find the forums so transformative that 
94 percent say they are, quote, very valuable for our democracy 
and they want to participate in more.
    Think about that. In an era when only 13 percent of 
citizens trust Congress, you can create spaces where 94 percent 
of citizens say the experience is so worthwhile they would do 
it again. That 81-percent gap tells us everything about what is 
possible.
    Participating Members and staff have also found the forums 
valuable but simply lack the time and resources for ongoing 
deliberation. Yet in our surveys, citizens rated such forums as 
the most legitimate and effective way to communicate. Mass 
emails and social media scored lower, and at the bottom, 80 
percent of citizens told us that AI chatbots were not 
acceptable for matters of substance.
    This finding is crucial. AI can transform how staff manage 
the deluge of routine requests. It is a deluge. Unless we use 
the freed up time the right way, AI will not dent the core 
problem. A customer service model makes sense for many 
important constituent service tasks: scheduling Capitol tours, 
tallying issue sentiments from correspondents, et cetera.
    Think about what customer service implies about 
representative Government. You own the company, and citizens 
can take or leave what you are selling. An office could have 
stellar customer service and constituents will still find that 
problematic. Lobbyists might be clients of Congress, but 
citizens want to be partners in self-government. I know that 
most Members want to be such partners too.
    Engagement that treats them like partners produces lasting 
gains in their political knowledge, trust, voting rate, 
civility, and willingness to work together. These patterns hold 
in forums with over 7,000 citizens. Mr. Kilmer and Mr. Timmons' 
national forum with the predecessor to this Committee rolled 
back 38 years worth of rising partisan animosity, the largest 
decline in polarization ever documented.
    Citizens also reward and encourage legislative expertise 
and collegiality in these formats. We have had similar success 
with official forums as part of the Chilean Constitutional 
Convention, the Good Friday Accords in Northern Ireland, and 
many others, with several more projects planned.
    Citizens are so frustrated with representative democracy 
that they are prepared to work around it through referenda and 
the like, and an alarming number are now willing to consider 
alternatives to democracy itself. Like our Founders, the vast 
majority would rather work with and through their 
Representatives--that is, if we reimagine what that entails.
    I am so grateful for this opportunity to testify because I 
believe the future of American democracy depends much more than 
we realize on the future of constituent engagement. The 
technology exists, the models are proven, your constituents are 
ready and waiting if you are ready to meet them. I know that 
all of us on this panel stand ready to help you do that.
    Thank you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Neblo follows:]

              PREPARED STATEMENT OF MICHAEL NEBLO
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Dr. Neblo.
    I now recognize Ms. Wilson for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF AUBREY WILSON

    Ms. Wilson. Chairwoman Bice, Ranking Member Torres, and 
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
be part of today's hearing. I am Aubrey Wilson, director of 
global initiatives at POPVOX Foundation and, as previously 
stated, a former House staffer, had the immense pleasure of 
working for the Committee on House Administration during the 
117th and 118th Congresses.
    At POPVOX, our mission is to help democratic institutions 
keep pace in a rapidly changing world. The majority of our team 
are prior congressional staffers, but our love for legislative 
institutions has expanded, leading us to work directly with 
parliaments around the world to transform their internal 
operations, helping them leapfrog from paper to cutting edge.
    Over the last 2 years, much of our work has focused on 
legislatures' adoption of AI, specifically as it relates to 
improving internal operations. I have been asked to share 
international examples of how emerging technologies improving 
constituent engagement in ways that could benefit Congress.
    Chatbots represent one of the lowest hanging fruit. They 
are familiar to users, quickly deployable, and capable of 
providing 24/7 assistance regardless of users' age, language, 
or education level. Estonia has developed two AI legislative 
systems for MPs and staff that search through parliamentary 
legislative data bases to find information about current laws, 
legislative proposals, and amendments. While not currently 
public facing, these chatbots are a model for how constituents 
might one day be able to interact with data on Congress.gov to 
understand which bills have been introduced and how those laws 
may affect them.
    Estonia has also launched a public-facing chat interface 
through which citizens are able to access services across 18 
agencies. Through this one point of service they can file 
consumer complaints, apply for permits, renew ID cards, report 
car accidents, and even borrow library books.
    This vision of constituent engagement transcends the 
legislative branch by imagining Government as an integrated 
service provider that could support individuals in navigating 
our complex ecosystem of Federal agencies in any language at 
any time.
    Beyond streamlining access to information is enabling two-
way interaction. Brazil's Ulysses Suite empowers constituents 
to leave detailed remarks about legislation via online poll. AI 
then groups and analyzes this broad public input and presents 
it back to policymakers, giving constituents meaningful 
participation while equipping legislators with actionable 
insights.
    AI can also foster quality constituent interactions at 
scale. In 2024, Remesh, which is a U.S.-based company, 
facilitated an AI-assisted community dialog between the major 
social groups in Gaza. The insights from this were aggregated 
into informative data for international negotiators and went in 
the ongoing peace process.
    These examples, along with the additional ones included in 
my written testimony, show what is possible. They also 
demonstrate that legislatures do not have to accept the all too 
common public perception that they are slow to innovate. With 
441 lawmakers with diverse backgrounds and expertise, the House 
is already witnessing the deployment of technology in new ways 
by Members and staff to engage with their constituents. The 
Congressional Hackathon, House Digital Service, modernization 
initiatives account, and Congressional Data Task Force 
exemplify the resources available that institutionalize 
innovation.
    The House has all the inspirational components it needs, 
but it must go beyond one-off initiatives by adopting a new way 
of doing things that allows ongoing experimentation, learning, 
and refinement. As the Subcommittee evaluates next steps for 
institutional modernization, we encourage you to partner with 
the CAO to reform House IT procurement and introduce 
transparency.
    While few tools are built specifically for legislative use, 
a vibrant marketplace of tools that can be used in Congress 
exists. If other institutions share open-sourced models, the 
selection of customizable legislative tools will also expand. 
Members who identify promising tools need a clear pathway for 
institutional approval. This Subcommittee in partnership with 
the CAO has a wide spectrum of potential approaches to support 
responsible innovation.
    For instance, the Subcommittee can support the CAO in 
exploring new contracting vehicles. It can work with CAO to 
establish rapid-pilot authorities and provide guardrails on 
low-risk, no- or low-code experiments. It can champion 
innovative projects like House Digital Services' amazing data 
lake and innovation sandboxes where Members can test new tools 
before institution-wide deployment.
    Together, additionally, the Subcommittee and CAO must 
prioritize the establishment of robust but expedient 
cybersecurity review processes. A 1-year authorization 
timelines for new tools is incompatible with 2-year election 
cycles.
    Finally, building off of Catherine Szpindor's legacy, the 
next CAO needs to be ready to work hand-in-hand with the 
Subcommittee to usher in the next era of House innovation by 
identifying actionable solutions that empower Members to pilot, 
experiment, and reimagine how new tools can serve constituents.
    Around the world, legislatures are experimenting with 
emerging technologies, deploying new tools, and learning from 
each other about new approaches for the future of constituent 
engagement. The House can benefit from this innovation but only 
when it has adopted the internal processes to institutionalize 
new ways of doing things.
    Thank you for being leaders in this conversation, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Wilson follows:]

              PREPARED STATEMENT OF AUBREY WILSON
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Ms. Wilson.
    I now recognize Dr. Beth Noveck for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF BETH SIMONE NOVECK

    Ms. Noveck. Chairwoman Bice, Ranking Member Torres, Members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today.
    It is precisely at this moment when Congress is most 
overworked, when the issues are getting ever more complex. The 
Committee staff are roughly 40 percent smaller than they were 
in 1980, when the support agencies, CRS and GAO and CBO, they 
have shrunk 45 percent in the last generation. Public 
engagement at this point really can sound like an unreasonable 
burden. Frankly, it is hard enough to field more than 81 
million calls coming into Congress every year from 
constituents.
    Historically--let us be realistic--meaningful participation 
has been too expensive. It has been too time-consuming, and it 
has really lacked the structure that has made public 
contributions useful for institutions. The web has made it 
easier for everybody to talk, but that does not mean it has 
made it easier for our institutions in our democracy to listen.
    In the State of New Jersey, what we have learned is that 
pairing the right artificial intelligence tools today with a 
disciplined process with the right design can actually make it 
possible for Government institutions both to serve residents 
better, to deliver services, but also to listen and to govern, 
not only faster and more efficiently, but also more 
inclusively, even at scale.
    There are two recommendations that are outstanding, 176 and 
174, from this Subcommittee that provide a practical starting 
point for what we might do and for that transformation.
    176 calls for exploring ways to solicit public input for 
Committee hearings. Long before Generative AI, Brazil's Senate, 
larger than our own, began inviting residents to submit 
questions for Committee hearings both by phone and on the web. 
Today, the Brazilian Senate has been integrating AI tools that 
are helping staff de-duplicate comments, cluster similar 
questions, and highlight those that directly are relevant to a 
Committee's oversight goals. Participation has been 
substantial: 46,000 questions across 546 hearings in 2023, and 
69,000 questions across 440 hearings in 2024. Public input has 
become so routine that the staff report to me that when they do 
not get it in fast enough, the senators call them and say, 
Where is my list of questions?
    This Subcommittee could begin testing recommendation 176 
through a simple, low-risk pilot conducted over the course of a 
few hearings that invite the public to submit questions. But, 
look, until recently, the idea of putting up an open text box 
on the web and say ``comment here,'' this was really an 
impractical idea. AI now makes it straightforward to gather 
that feedback, not just by text but by voice, to remove 
duplicates, to filter off-topic comments, to cluster questions 
into themes, and to synthesize learnings.
    I outline the specifics of this process in the written 
remarks. Let me just add that my students in a program we call 
``AI for Impact'' that we teach through Northeastern University 
and our community college system in New Jersey, they are 
embedded full time with Government partners, they just built a 
tool, a free open-source tool called Open Feedback, which is 
being deployed at scale by the city of Boston. Residents can 
submit feedback in natural language, and the AI assistant 
responds with clarifying questions to improve the submission. 
The tool allows staff to organize comments by topic, to analyze 
patterns, and to route issues to the right department for 
faster feedback.
    The next AI for Impact co-op starts--cohort--excuse me--
begins in January, and we would be happy to adapt this tool for 
your use and to be of use.
    Through InnovateUS, the free, nonpartisan, nonprofit, peer-
to-peer training program that I founded, where Government 
professionals teach one another how to use AI and where we have 
trained 150,000 people around the country now in using AI to 
serve the public, we are learning from jurisdictions around the 
country, from the Engaged California project, from the Bowling 
Green engagement project, from work we have done in New Jersey 
and around the world, about how different jurisdictions are 
using AI to do engagement at scale. We are turning those 
learnings into a training which we will be happy to provide on 
how to effectively use AI for public engagement.
    Of course, there are risks, and Congress must guard against 
hallucinations by ensuring that we are using AI to sort and to 
organize and not to make decisions. The greater risk is, of 
course, that we engage in ineffective or performative 
engagement that is disconnected from real decision-making. 
These pilots, they create an opportunity, a practical and 
immediate way to tap the expertise and the lived and 
credentialed experience of the American public to strengthen 
lawmaking, to strengthen oversight. To quote Michael, we all 
stand at the ready to assist.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Noveck follows:]

            PREPARED STATEMENT OF BETH SIMONE NOVECK
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Dr. Noveck.
    Just a bit of housekeeping. You probably heard the bells. 
House votes have been called. We will go ahead and finish 
opening statements, along with the opening statement from 
Ranking Member Morelle of the full Committee. Then we will take 
a brief pause for Members to go vote, and then we will return.
    At this time, I recognize--Mr. Ward, you are recognized for 
5 minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF KEN WARD

    Mr. Ward. Good morning. Thank you for inviting the Chief 
Administrative Office to participate in today's hearing. I am 
joined by our CAO, Catherine Szpindor; our chief information 
officer, Jamie Crotts; our chief digital officer, Bob Barrett; 
and our deputy chief information security officer, Addie 
Adeniji.
    Personally, I have spent my entire career in and around the 
legislative branch. I worked in a Member office. I founded the 
citizen engagement software company Fireside 21, and I served 
as CEO for 10 years. I have spent the last 5 years here at the 
CAO and lead our House Digital Service. I have had a front row 
seat to see how technology has changed and impacted Member 
offices.
    The era dominated by landlines and letters is certainly 
over, and today, citizens and advocacy groups are already 
leveraging AI to reach and influence Congress. Here in the 
House, the CAO has been bringing new methodologies and 
technologies online: human-centered design practices, business 
automation, cloud integration, and responsible AI, just to name 
a few.
    These innovations bring new possibilities for our products 
and services, and today, we are sharing a new vision to help 
Members and their staff improve constituent engagement while 
continuing to ensure the privacy and security of the sensitive 
data.
    In the unique environment of the House, the nonpartisan CAO 
plays the role of both innovator and host when it comes to 
innovation. As an innovator, we build and maintain custom 
applications, like the Communicating with Congress API, e-Dear 
Colleague System, House Cal, LegiDex, and Quill. Over the past 
several years, in large part because of this Subcommittee and 
the previous Select Committee on Modernization, the House has 
advanced constituent-focused technology as well. We launched 
FlagTrack, which helps offices manage flag requests from 
constituents, and we are piloting Case Compass, an initiative 
to aggregate and analyze casework to help Members better 
understand trends and conduct oversight of the executive 
branch.
    In our other role as host to innovation, the CAO 
facilitates access to commercial technologies, like office 
productivity suites, photo and video editing software, 
collaboration tools, and correspondence management systems, the 
CMS systems your offices use daily.
    The current contract structure for CMS is designed so every 
Member's constituent data resides within one of a few 
proprietary systems, and now this design is limiting our 
innovation because other vendors cannot access your data to 
provide new or improved services. To be clear, we are not 
blaming CMS vendors. They are all operating within the 
framework that the House has required for several decades that 
ensures the protection of your data. However, with recent 
advancements in secure storage and computing technologies, the 
House can and should explore making changes that could spur 
Members' access to more innovation, most notably, by changing 
the way constituent data is stored and accessed.
    As you know, we have proposed creating a secure, House-
controlled constituent data lake for each Member that can be 
leveraged by multiple House and vendor applications if and as 
authorized by each Member.
    In short, your constituent data would be hosted in a way 
that gives you control over who can securely access your 
office's data, and that shared access will allow you to pick 
from a variety of vendors, offering a range of constituent 
engagement services. This concept will open the door to new 
technologies and greater interoperability with existing House 
applications.
    Just this past September, over 20 innovators pitched new 
Congress-specific applications at the Congressional Hackathon. 
Presenters shared tools that use AI to identify constituent 
sentiment, automate sorting, and show real-time analytics. A 
data lake would help bring these new innovations to Congress 
and provide opportunities to enhance numerous other internal 
applications. For example, you can imagine receiving an eDear 
Colleague and that invitation to cosponsor a new bill already 
having data from your citizens who support and oppose that 
bill.
    We think our issue is not a lack of innovation. It is just 
an access to this innovation. Migrating to a House-controlled 
data lake will require a multiyear investment. However, our 
iterative approach will not only validate ongoing investment 
but also deliver new capabilities along the way, new 
capabilities that will be available to all Member offices 
without the need to switch your CMS.
    If done correctly, building a data platform that focuses on 
security, governance, users, and constituents, the House will 
spur both internal and external innovation in constituent 
engagement. It is a future where Members are more empowered 
with a wider range of options to best serve and interact with 
the American public.
    Again, thank you for today's invitation, and happy to 
answer your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ward follows:]

                 PREPARED STATEMENT OF KEN WARD
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Mr. Ward.
    Thank you to all the panelists for those opening 
statements.
    At this time, I am going to recognize Ranking Member of the 
full Committee on House Administration, Mr. Morelle, for an 
opening statement.
    Mr. Morelle.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
 COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                            NEW YORK

    Mr. Morelle. Thank you. I will be very brief given that we 
have votes. I appreciate the witnesses for being here on a 
really important subject, and certainly to you, Madam Chair, 
for your continued good work in helping to modernize Congress, 
and certainly to my friend, Ranking Member Torres, as well for 
your leadership.
    I do want to acknowledge Catherine Szpindor who is retiring 
in the next few days and thank her for her long service to the 
Congress. We are very, very grateful. Wish her the very best as 
she transitions to the next phase of her life.
    I also just want to acknowledge Mike Carey who keeps adding 
layers of clothing because it is so damn cold on that side of 
the room, and the House Administration Committee ought to do 
something about it.
    In a serious mode, I think of, as I was thinking about this 
in my head, how constituents engage with Congress. I am sure 
there are many different buckets, but the four that I am 
particularly interested in--one is just access to information 
about Congress, what bills are happening, making it easy to 
access that so it is not as bewildering as it may seem to 
people.
    The second is sort of the interaction with Members, 
engaging us in terms of providing perspective on issues before 
the House, issues before the country, what they think we ought 
to be doing, and for us to be able to engage with constituents. 
That interaction is very important.
    Then the last two are related. One is access to Government 
services. How do people know how to connect with all the things 
that we offer, both Federal, State, local?
    Then the final, which is related and adjacent, but it is 
access to community services. How do I know--if I am suddenly 
in crisis, how do I know to engage? I think many times when we 
do constituent services, people reaching out because they are 
entering into a system that is, to them, bewildering.
    At a time when we have clearly lost the faith and 
confidence of the American people institutionally as 
Government, that last--those last two buckets may be, in some 
ways, the most important just because as people are in crisis, 
our family members are in crisis, how do they engage? I have 
some real thoughts on that.
    The introduction of AI clearly is critical, and I would 
love to learn more about it. I will admit, many websites I go 
to where I am doing a chatbot, and it is clearly a chat 
assistance, I find incredibly frustrating. I do not feel like--
I feel like I might as well read the frequently asked questions 
because there is no other engagement other than the frequently 
asked questions being regurgitated to me. That will get better. 
Clearly, having humans engaged in this is going to be a big 
deal. I appreciate all of what you have to say, and I am 
looking forward to, after votes, coming back and engaging 
again.
    Madam Chair, thanks for giving me the opportunity to say a 
few words.
    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Morelle follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE 
                 ADMINISTRATION JOSEPH MORELLE

    I do want to acknowledge Catherine Szpindor who is retiring 
in the next few days and thank her for her long service to the 
Congress. We are very, very grateful. Wish her the very best as 
she transitions to the next phase of her life. I also just want 
to acknowledge Mike Carey who keeps adding layers of clothing 
because it is so damn cold on that side of the room, and the 
House Administration Committee ought to do something about it.
    In a serious mode, I think of, as I was thinking about this 
in my head, how constituents engage with Congress. I am sure 
there are many different buckets, but the four that I am 
particularly interested in--one is just access to information 
about Congress, what bills are happening, making it easy to 
access that so it is not as bewildering as it may seem to 
people.
    The second is sort of the interaction with Members, 
engaging us in terms of providing perspective on issues before 
the House, issues before the country, what they think we ought 
to be doing, and for us to be able to engage with constituents. 
That interaction is very important. Then the last two are 
related. One is access to Government services. How do people 
know how to connect with all the things that we offer, both 
Federal, State, local? Then the final, which is related and 
adjacent, but it is access to community services. How do I 
know--if I am suddenly in crisis, how do I know to engage? I 
think many times when we do constituent services, people 
reaching out because they are entering into a system that is, 
to them, bewildering. At a time when we have clearly lost the 
faith and confidence of the American people institutionally as 
Government, that last--those last two buckets may be, in some 
ways, the most important just because as people are in crisis, 
our family members are in crisis, how do they engage? I have 
some real thoughts on that.
    The introduction of AI clearly is critical, and I would 
love to learn more about it. I will admit, many websites I go 
to where I am doing a chatbot, and it is clearly a chat 
assistance, I find incredibly frustrating. I do not feel like--
I feel like I might as well read the frequently asked questions 
because there is no other engagement other than the frequently 
asked questions being regurgitated to me. That will get better. 
Clearly, having humans engaged in this is going to be a big 
deal.

    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Ranking Member Morelle.
    I want to second the comments that you made about Catherine 
Szpindor and her departure from the CAO. It has been a joy and 
pleasure working with the entire CAO staff but particularly 
Catherine on these endeavors. Your presence will be noted as 
you depart for greener pastures potentially.
    With that, we are going to take a recess of the 
Subcommittee, and we will return upon the conclusion of votes.
    The Subcommittee will now come to order.
    We will now move to questions for the witnesses, beginning 
with me, followed by the Ranking Member Torres, Mr. Carey, and 
Mr. Morelle. Each Member will have 5 minutes to ask questions, 
so I ask to please keep your responses concise. I now recognize 
myself for the purpose of questioning the witnesses.
    First of all, thank you for the very insightful testimony. 
I think that we can agree that AI is certainly becoming a 
useable tool as we look to improve constituent engagement 
across the House.
    My first question, though--and this may be more for Dr. 
Noveck or Mr. Ward--is, how do you build a platform that would 
be useful as an AI tool, for example, using a chatbot, that 
could actually give responses that are going to be accurate 
and/or make sense? Are you looking at building some sort of 
customized element to actually interact with the House website?
    Second, how could you ensure that the responses that are 
being given are going to be customized to each office? Because, 
for example, Mrs. Torres and I may have a different perspective 
on an ag issue. Can you talk a little bit about how you might 
do that?
    Ms. Noveck. No red light on my end.
    I--thank you for the question. I think one of the things 
that we have done in New Jersey, first of all, and that we have 
done through our work building tools for other States as well 
is to start with internal-facing chatbots. I think it is really 
important to recognize that these tools are extremely good for 
synthesizing information and that is what has made it possible 
to do things like train an AI tool on a specific corpus of 
documents.
    That would mean a Member could--and it is something, by the 
way, that together with POPVOX, the AI for Impact program built 
the first and tested the first chatbot for a Member, where we 
loaded it with all of that Member's position statements, bill 
drafts, et cetera. Then--the tools are getting much better at 
restricting responses only to what is on--what is in that 
corpus of knowledge. That is one way to avoid the hallucination 
problem, No. 1.
    No. 2, internal-facing tools, so that what you are doing is 
giving staff a tool that they can use to quickly give answers 
to people. In New Jersey, for example, we are not using 
chatbots to answer constituent calls. You are not getting, you 
know, a machine. What you are getting is a human who in turn 
has a good lookup tool on their end that is allowing them to 
synthesize a lot of information. I think the best place to 
start is with those tools for the people answering the phone, 
to make their jobs easier. The tools are allowing us to get 
better, especially when you train them to restrict their 
answers to a specific corpus of knowledge. That is also what 
has allowed us in New Jersey to bring down the time it takes to 
answer a call from 40 minutes to now 3 minutes and modernize 
all of our call centers using some of these practices.
    Chairwoman Bice. Fantastic. Would you like to add anything, 
Mr. Ward?
    Mr. Ward. I would just echo that. I think we have a lot of 
opportunities here internally for those chatbots. There is a 
use case where staff is trying to find House operational 
information; that could be on HouseNet. There is the data that 
is private to your office; that could be a different chatbot. 
There is data in your CMS; that could be a separate chatbot. It 
is just about structuring data the right way to enable those 
services.
    Chairwoman Bice. Perfect. Thank you.
    Dr. Neblo, I want to pivot to you. Your testimony 
highlighted the mismatch between public frustration and 
Congress' current engagement methods. What specific 
institutional reforms would help bridge this gap and make 
constituent input more actionable for Members?
    Mr. Neblo. Thank you. That is a--that is a great question.
    At the Institute so far, we have had a relatively small set 
that we have implemented and have hard evidence on. I try to 
follow a kind of political science Hippocratic oath, so I will 
separate a little bit between what I have firsthand, you know, 
scientific evidence about and then some other ideas that we do 
not have as much backing on.
    Deliberative town halls, we have done, I forget how many 
now, and none have gone badly. There is some----
    Chairwoman Bice. Define ``gone badly.''
    Mr. Neblo. OK. Define--that is a great question. In no--in 
no case has a Member not gained trust approval, voting rates, 
voting for the Member rates. Now, in some cases it is small. In 
other cases it is eye-popping. Gone wrong would be the Member 
stuck their neck out, tried something new, and it hurt them in 
the eyes of their constituents. That is how I would define it. 
That has not happened once.
    Chairwoman Bice. How do you ensure--with a particular 
platform that you are utilizing, is it--are you able to ensure 
that the individuals that you are connecting with are 
constituents of that particular Member?
    Mr. Neblo. Yes. That is one of the really nice things about 
doing the online town halls and doing them by invitation. In 
principle, somebody that we give the invitation to and have the 
verified link could give it to somebody else but not be on at 
the same time themselves, right. There is a little shadow of a 
possibility once in a while, but we have reason to think that 
we are talking about tiny numbers, maybe no one, on that.
    The results are really quite large. Your predecessors on 
the Select Committee did a joint bipartisan town hall, and 2 
weeks after it, affective polarization, dislike of the out 
party relative to the in party, was as if 38 years ago. Thirty-
eight--I mean, that--over 100 studies have been published 
trying to lower affective polarization. This is the largest 
one. Most of the other large ones, you cannot talk about 
politics. We need to learn how to talk about politics.
    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you very much, Dr. Neblo. I 
appreciate that.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mrs. Torres, for 5 
minutes.
    Mrs. Torres. Thank you again. I am really excited to hear 
more about this developing technology. Certainly, you know, the 
in-person town halls have caused a lot of security concerns. 
They require law enforcement presence, security presence, not 
just for the Member but for the attendees. To be able to have a 
conversation with constituents, for me it has been a lot more 
work because that means that we have to limit information to 
maybe 120 people in a smaller setting or we do a lot more 
roundtable discussions with 30, 40 people versus doing a town 
hall that can bring in, you know, 4-, 600 people. I look 
forward to continue and to hear more about that.
    On the issue of securing data, I think we--you and I talked 
a little bit, Mr. Ward, about some of my concerns that I have. 
We have a lot of casework that is open. Some of it is 10 years 
old. It takes that long to get some of the cases completed. I 
want to be able to, when a constituent calls my office, for 
anyone in the office to be able to respond to that constituent 
so that constituent do not have to wait for the caseworker 
assigned to their individual case to get a response. You know, 
we are still researching your information. We are still waiting 
for the agency to reply to us. We cannot check back in for 
another 3 or 4 days.
    How do I ensure that anyone who answers the call in my 
office, in any one of my offices--and many times, they are 
interns answering the phone--has some data available that they 
can immediately respond to that caller but not be able to see 
specific data, such as a Social Security or identifiable 
information for that constituent?
    Mr. Ward. OK. Well, a couple things. I think, you know, 
with what we are proposing, one of the benefits of what we are 
proposing is to be able to have governance that is specific to 
different parts of that data. We are not certainly proposing 
taking all this data and putting it in a large language model, 
for example. With a data lake, you can have different settings 
and different governance on different segments of data and 
sharing, similarly, you know, what people can see. Now, that 
will require some integration with the service providers, make 
sure that there is integration there. That is very feasible.
    There is also potential to have more self-service 
capabilities for citizens. They can go to a portal and access 
the status as well.
    Mrs. Torres. The constituent----
    Mr. Ward. Correct.
    Mrs. Torres [continuing]. themselves. OK. Where they would 
be able to input their personal data so the bot or the 
computer--the system knows that it is responding to the correct 
person.
    Mr. Ward. That is right. They would have to authenticate 
into the system. But, you know, for example, with our FlagTrack 
product, a little--much different, but we are proposing 
expanding that so citizens can, you know, self-service checking 
the status of those orders. Something similar could exist for 
casework.
    Mrs. Torres. Right. Nearly one in three working Americans 
have very little digital skills. We learned the hard way about 
this when the VA made a change requiring digital IDs instead of 
ID cards. My office had created a system that we could go to 
any location and be able to get a constituent a real ID that 
they can carry in their pocket, that they can show for their 
benefits and other public benefits--public and private benefits 
that are available to them. You know, we have to create systems 
that do not shut them out completely.
    Outside of going out and training our constituents on how 
to create a screen name or, you know, an email address, how do 
you propose that we jump through some of these hoops that are 
also challenges?
    Ms. Noveck, you seem to really be involved in the 
constituency part of this.
    Ms. Noveck. We have rolled out a program that we call our 
Civic AI training program. It works via WhatsApp in multiple 
languages that was designed to teach people what AI is but how 
to use it to engage and interact with Government. It is 
specifically for that purpose. We designed it, actually, with 
families in California, in fact, as part of a program where we 
co-designed together with those families tools using AI to help 
understand their child's individualized education program, the 
document you get from Government, the 100-page PDF you get 
about the services to which you are entitled when your child 
has a--is differently-abled.
    We believe that citizens are smart. They want to learn. 
They are capable of not just understanding what these tools are 
but helping to build them. That is why we are rolling out via 
the mobile phone multilingual support in--free--in how to use 
AI to interact with----
    Mrs. Torres. What is the program called?
    Ms. Noveck. Sorry. Civic AI.
    Mrs. Torres. Civic AI. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    At this time, I recognize Representative Carey for 5 
minutes for questions.
    Mr. Carey. Thank you. I want to thank the Chair and the 
Ranking Member.
    Doctor, I am going to start with you. Of course, knowing 
where you are from, I have to start off with OH. All right. We 
all know that the public trust in Congress is much lower than 
we would like it to be, and that continues to be a cause of 
concern. I was struck by the survey finding that 70 percent of 
respondents are willing to engage more directly with elected 
officials on important issues. Now, to me, that is a positive 
sign.
    Now, you mentioned deliberative town halls as an effective 
form of two-way engagement. At this time, could you talk maybe 
a little bit more how those might work?
    Mr. Neblo. Sure. Thank you for the opportunity.
    The real difference in--there are a few differences in 
deliberative town halls. One of them is that, as if we were 
doing a survey, we try to get a real random sample of the 
entire constituency and affirmatively and personally invite 
them. It turns out that it could seem like there is a 
contradiction, citizens saying they do not think Members care 
what they think and yet, you know, they want to engage, right. 
The distinction is that when the Member affirmatively reaches 
out and says, No, really, I want to hear what you have to say, 
how does Tuesday at 7 sound? The citizen says, Oh, OK, they are 
one of the good ones.
    It is very, very fragile, very, very easy to get them to 
believe that you do care. That is where the apathy/frustration 
difference is really important. Affirmatively inviting a very 
broad sample.
    The broad sample also tremendously alters the dynamics. 
Your average constituent does not want to yell at you. Your 
average constituent has not even necessarily made up his or her 
mind on the issue. They are not there to necessarily give you a 
piece of their mind. They want to hear what you have to say 
before making up their mind, which is why this interactive 
dialog is so valuable. You get to hear from them about their 
concerns, their values, their questions. They actually want to 
hear from you too, right.
    We do a survey beforehand. These are real field 
experiments. There is also a control group that we survey. 
People attend. Then there is a survey usually about 2 weeks 
later of everybody again. The forums are online on a secure 
platform. We are building a bespoke platform. It is very, very 
easy to use, will be linked to the 14 most spoken languages in 
the United States. My grandfather was illiterate. You know, we 
have oral versions. We have real-time captioning for the 
hearing impaired. We are very serious about trying to really--
any enfranchised citizen should be able to talk to their Member 
of Congress.
    Mr. Carey. I appreciate that. I am going to be cutting 
short on time here.
    Now, there is, of course--I mean, you have seen this, you 
have all seen this in the press, there is a real concern about 
Member safety. You know, I think that we on this Committee on 
House Admin work very hard to increase the security budget of 
most of our Members. Like many Members, we have had death 
threats. We now have to have a security detail, which we never 
thought we would have to have before.
    In the two-way communication forums, are there effective 
ways--I know you only have a minute--to take down the 
temperature from the onset of those forums?
    Mr. Neblo. That is really one of the most extraordinary 
things that we found, is that when you get a random sample--as 
I said, your average constituent does not want to yell at you. 
They do not want to throw bombs.
    Very quickly. We had a provision in the first very study we 
did, an NSF-funded project built these. If a question or 
comment was considered abusive, inciting, or vulgar, we had to 
pull it out. Over 1,400 questions submitted in the first round 
that we did. Zero. Not once did we have to pull it out. That 
tells you the difference of the--of the people who are the 
frequent flyers--and some of them are great. They are active 
citizens. We have got to represent them too--or you have to 
represent them too.
    The random sampling helps a lot. Online helps a lot. 
Moderation helps a lot. They look around--even people who might 
be inclined look around, and their fellow citizens are being 
civil and behaving, or the Members are treating each other with 
dignity.
    Mr. Carey. Doctor, I want to thank you for your time.
    Chair, with that, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Mr. Carey.
    At this time, we do have time for a second round of 
questions. I will recognize myself for an additional 5 minutes 
of questions.
    Ms. Wilson, I want to direct this to you. You have worked 
with legislatures around the world. What lessons from global 
experiments with AI do you think that Congress can uniquely 
position--is uniquely positioned to maybe adopt?
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you so much for these questions.
    I will start by saying that our work with international 
legislatures has actually been an extremely eye-opening 
experience, especially as a prior congressional staffer. I 
think that I took for granted the incredibly robust IT 
infrastructure and all of the benefits that this body has. I 
think that that is in itself a lesson to learn from.
    A lot of the legislatures that we work with, the way that 
they are implementing AI is to rapidly modernize their internal 
processes in the practice, which is digitizing documents, 
making data accessible, getting up-to-date websites, things 
that we really do take for granted, I think, as a U.S. 
Congress. That really, I think, showcases that the fact that 
the U.S. Congress already has such a strong IT foundation lets 
you kind of build on top of that.
    While other countries are using AI to kind of build that 
foundation, we actually have the ability to experiment and to 
be the people who do design the future of constituent 
engagement. I would say that that is kind of the first--the 
first element.
    The second element is one of the biggest kind of difference 
makers with international institutions that I have been able to 
kind of move more agilely is having internal processes that 
allow them to test and experiment and adopt new tools. A lot of 
that comes back down to kind of your internal authorization and 
security protocols. With that, having kind of a tiered system 
has really helped kind of expedite the ability for new tools to 
be tested that are low risk and be more quickly adopted so that 
then they can be implemented and staff and Members can start 
benefiting from them.
    Chairwoman Bice. That was an incredible segue into my next 
question to the panelists, so thank you for that.
    There is a couple things that we think about when we are 
trying to launch new technology within the House. Specifically, 
cybersecurity becomes a big topic of conversation. I think 
the--for the panel, I would ask you all, you know, there are 
rigorous standards to become a vendor for the House. Some of 
the individuals that want to partner with us may have their 
particular platform rejected for a variety of reasons.
    This is going to be a couple of--maybe parts of a question. 
One, is there a way for us to speed up that approval process? 
Two, are the individuals, the vendors that are wanting to 
partner with us, are they able to know and learn why they may 
have been denied? What should we be thinking about as a 
Committee to try to help improve the process and/or the 
recruitment of vendors that potentially have innovative 
technologies that the House could be utilizing? It is a lot, 
but I will throw it open to anyone who wishes to answer.
    Mr. Ward and Dr. Noveck seem to be looking at each other.
    Mr. Ward. We have a number of different processes that 
depend a little bit on what the technology is. For example, 
with CMS, there is a specific process for that, and there is 
other processes for other cloud services.
    Chairwoman Bice. Can I ask a question on that? How often is 
the process reviewed, would you say?
    Mr. Ward. Well, the CMS contract is, you know, typically 
issued for like a 6-year term with option years, but every 
option period, every 2-year option period it is reviewed. The 
cloud approval process we are always kind of looking at. That 
is a House information security policy of the Committee. There 
is work underway now, I think you are aware of, in 
collaboration with your staff to look at that.
    You mentioned two things that I think will be realized in 
the new year, which is more information on House.gov for 
vendors, more information on HouseNet for staff to understand 
those processes. What we propose with the CMS modernization is 
a part of a larger puzzle of doing business with the House that 
we want to improve.
    Chairwoman Bice. Dr. Noveck.
    Ms. Noveck. I am happy to take offline the question of how 
we streamline that process in New Jersey for making it faster 
for vendors.
    Let me just speak to the public engagement pilot idea. This 
is not something that needs to integrate with core systems, and 
therefore it should be something that is easy to try 
effectively tomorrow----
    Chairwoman Bice. A standalone.
    Ms. Noveck. Sorry?
    Chairwoman Bice. It is a standalone.
    Ms. Noveck. One can do something in a sandboxed environment 
that is a standalone that allows you to test processes while 
you work in parallel to figure out then how would you integrate 
technologies. It could stand alone. Because you are talking 
about public comments, not something that involves private 
information--and, by the way, you can use AI to filter out any 
private information or Social Security numbers that someone 
does accidentally type in. That is something fairly easy to do. 
That would be something relatively quickly to stand up as a 
pilot without worrying about integration with back-end systems.
    Chairwoman Bice. I think that is the end of the questions 
that I have at the moment.
    Mrs. Torres, would you like to----
    Mrs. Torres. Yes, just----
    Chairwoman Bice. I recognize Mrs. Torres----
    Mrs. Torres. Thank you. I just want to do a follow-up.
    Is 6 years too long to give someone an opportunity to 
improve their systems? How do we get feedback from the actual 
users? Are we constantly requesting that input from the users 
so that we are improving systems or ensuring that our vendors 
are meeting the moment or the contract?
    Mr. Ward. Yes, absolutely. I think that with this--what the 
CAO is doing is trying to be more and more engaged with staff 
and users of these services to constantly learn. What we are 
proposing is a response to that, to bring more options and more 
flexibility and more capability.
    Mrs. Torres. Yes. I just want to ensure that we are 
constantly asking for input from the users to ensure that we 
are utilizing the best applications out there for our needs.
    Everything that was said today sounds wonderful. We are 
really moving into a new digital world that would help us be a 
bit more responsive to our constituents. All of that is only as 
good as the internet services that service our communities 
could withstand. I can tell you that I chose the location of my 
district office to be directly across from an international 
airport thinking, you know, it would be a great place to have 
the best WiFi and the best internet services in this suburb. 
Unfortunately, that is not the case and, you know, we are 
constantly having to deal with a 3- or 4-minute delay just to 
send an email from one--from the D.C. office to the district 
office.
    I just want to remind my colleagues that investing in the 
infrastructure across America, especially for, you know, to 
meet that--to close that digital divide is so critically 
important. Suburbs as well as, you know, States that are very 
rural I think deserve to have an opportunity to also hear from 
their Representatives.
    With that, I yield back to the Chair. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Bice. Thank you, Ranking Member Torres.
    I want to thank the panelists for joining us, for having 
this important conversation. I think you have given us a lot to 
think about as we are looking to continue to innovate within 
the House infrastructure and provide the best possible 
constituent engagement that we can, keeping in mind that 
technology changes rapidly. There are certain limitations and 
challenges that we have, including the cybersecurity piece of 
this. There is a lot of innovation happening right now and 
incredible opportunity for us to be able to leverage and 
utilize that because, after all, this is the people's House.
    With that, this Subcommittee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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