[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE IMPACTS OF TEMPORARY
PROTECTED STATUS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2025
__________
Serial No. 119-47
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
62-402 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona Member
TOM McCLINTOCK, California JERROLD NADLER, New York
THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin ZOE LOFGREN, California
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
CHIP ROY, Texas HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin Georgia
BEN CLINE, Virginia ERIC SWALWELL, California
LANCE GOODEN, Texas TED LIEU, California
JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
TROY E. NEHLS, Texas J. LUIS CORREA, California
BARRY MOORE, Alabama MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KEVIN KILEY, California JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming LUCY McBATH, Georgia
LAUREL M. LEE, Florida DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
WESLEY HUNT, Texas BECCA BALINT, Vermont
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
MARK HARRIS, North Carolina DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York
ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
BRANDON GILL, Texas
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
AND ENFORCEMENT
TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington,
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin Ranking Member
CHIP ROY, Texas JERROLD NADLER, New York
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey J. LUIS CORREA, California
TROY NEHLS, Texas MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
WESLEY HUNT, Texas JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin ZOE LOFGREN, California
BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
ROBERT F. ONDER, Missouri Vacant
DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas Vacant
BRANDON GILL, Texas Vacant
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Wednesday, December 17, 2025
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of California.................................................. 1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee
on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the
State of Washington............................................ 3
WITNESSES
James Rogers, Senior Counsel, America First Legal Foundation
Oral Testimony................................................. 5
Prepared Testimony............................................. 8
George Fishman, Senior Legal Fellow, Center for Immigration
Studies
Oral Testimony................................................. 19
Prepared Testimony............................................. 21
James A. Williams, Jr., General President, International Union of
Painters and Allied Trades
Oral Testimony................................................. 43
Prepared Testimony............................................. 45
Larry Celaschi, Councilman, Borough of Charleroi
Oral Testimony................................................. 49
Prepared Testimony............................................. 51
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed
below.......................................................... 78
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
A letter to the Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration
Integrity, Security, and Enforcement, from Kristin
Hopkins, President, Charleroi Borough Council, Dec. 17,
2025
A letter to the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of
the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Washington, from Reverend
Sharon Woomer, Pastor, Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025
A letter to the Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration
Integrity, Security, and Enforcement, from Taris Alfred
Vrcek, a resident in Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025
A letter to the Representatives of the Committee on the
Judiciary, from Tim Maddocks, Faculty Member at the
University of Pittsburgh, Dec. 17, 2025
An article entitled, ``Temporary Protected Status protects
families while also boosting the U.S. economy,'' Feb.
2024, fwd.us
An article entitled, ``A Pennsylvania town is thriving with
Haitian immigrants--and is the latest target of
Republican hate,'' Oct. 20, 2024, The Guardian
An article entitled, ``How Trump warped and weaponized a
small Pennsylvania town's immigration story,'' Oct. 9,
2024, The Washington Post
An article entitled, ``FACTS: Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your
Jobs or Lowering Wages,'' Jan. 10, 2025, American
Business Immigration Coalition (ABIC)
A message from Navy J. Ellis, Mayor Elect, Councilwoman Elect,
Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025, submitted by the Honorable
Deborah K. Ross, a Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration
Integrity, Security, and Enforcementa North Carolina, for the
record
THE IMPACTS OF TEMPORARY
PROTECTED STATUS
----------
Wednesday, December 17, 2025
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., in Room
2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Tom McClintock
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives McClintock, Biggs,
Tiffany, Roy, Van Drew, Hunt, Grothman, Knott, Onder, Gill,
Jayapal, Scanlon, Ross, Garcia, Crockett, and Lofgren.
Mr. McClintock. The Subcommittee will come to order.
Without objection the Chair is authorized to declare a recess
at any time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on
Temporary Protected Status.
I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. The
Subcommittee meets today to consider the Temporary Protected
Status Program, its abuse by the Biden Administration, its
effect on American communities, and what reforms are required
to prevent such abuse in the future. Our Nation has just
suffered the largest illegal mass migration in history.
Aided abetted and encouraged by the Biden Administration
and its allies in Congress. This Subcommittee has documented
the cost to our country. Hospitals overrun with illegals
demanding care, food pantries, and homeless shelters
overwhelmed, classrooms packed with non-English speaking
students, rampant child sex, and labor trafficking.
Hundreds of thousands of Americans dead from fentanyl
overdoses, suppressed wages for working families, 160 billion
dollars in welfare costs to support this population. Worst of
all, the introduction of the most violent criminal gangs and
cartels in the world into our communities. President Trump
reversed these ruinous policies by simply enforcing our
existing immigration laws.
Illegal border crossings immediately plunged more than 95
percent. The largest illegal mass migration in history is now
followed by the largest legal deportation in history, although
it is being obstructed by vicious and often violent street mobs
incited and encouraged by some of our Democratic colleagues.
One aspect of this nightmare was the abuse of the so called
Temporary Protected Status Program under the Biden
Administration that proved Ronald Reagan's maxim that there is
nothing more permanent on this earth than a temporary
government program. TPS was intended to provide temporary
residency to aliens who were legally in our country when a
disaster befell their own.
An earthquake, a hurricane, and a civil war that
temporarily prevented their safe return. It was never intended
to encourage illegal entry by aliens fleeing in such
conditions. Its nature is in the first word to describe it is
``temporary.'' The law gives the administration broad latitude
not only to extend such Temporary Protected Status when
circumstances required, but also to withdraw that status when
those circumstances change.
Along the way Temporary Protected Status became Permanent
Protected Status. For example, such status was extended to
citizens in El Salvador after a series of earthquakes in 2001
and never withdrawn. It was extended to citizens of Honduras
after Hurricane Mitch struck that country in 1998 and never
withdrawn. Even the Democratic witness admits that many TPS
beneficiaries have been here ten or even 20 years.
Worst, most of the TPS beneficiaries under Biden did not
enter the country legally only to find themselves stranded by
unfortunate events, but rather they entered the country
illegally to claim such status or were rewarded for their
illegal entry by attaining such status. These abuses followed
the TPS Program to balloon from roughly 410,000 when Biden took
office, to nearly 1.5 million on the day that he left office.
As the number of aliens with TPS skyrocketed, American
communities such as Logansport, Indiana, Springfield, Ohio, and
Charleroi, Pennsylvania, cried out for help. These American
communities struggled as large influxes of these foreign
nationals arrived in their neighborhoods, most of whom had
entered the country illegally.
These aliens compete with Americans for housing, medical
care, education, emergency services, law enforcement services,
and other social services. New burdens on communities already
strained to the breaking point include linguistic and cultural
barriers in schools, forcing American students to learn at the
pace of those students who are still learning English.
Alarming numbers of car crashes involving foreign nationals
who in many cases do not carry the requisite insurance so that
the victim can be made whole. Increased numbers of emergency
calls, the reintroduction of diseases previously eradicated
from the United States, and much more. We will hear from one of
those communities in a few minutes.
The Trump Administration has heeded the cries of the
American people. Since taking office, the President has moved
to withdraw TPS status for foreign nationals whose conditions
no longer warrant such status. In other cases, the Trump
Administration has determined that these TPS designations are
simply not in our country's national interest.
These findings have terminated designations in all but five
of the 17 countries previously designated. The purpose of
today's hearing is to hear the real-world impact of these
abuses on American towns, and to identify what changes need to
be made to ensure that no future President can abuse this
program as did Joe Biden. I look forward to hearing from our
witnesses.
I now yield to the Ranking Member for her opening
statement.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for holding this hearing
on an issue that goes to the core of who we are as a country,
Temporary Protected Status, or TPS. I want to recognize that we
have a number of people here in the room who hold Temporary
Protected Status, I want to welcome you all to this hearing, I
am glad you are here, I am glad you are with us.
This program, established by Congress in 1990, provides
people who are already in the United States a safe haven when
their home countries are devastated by armed conflict, natural
disaster, or other extraordinary conditions. TPS is built on
the simple idea that we as a country should not force people
back to deadly and life-threatening conditions.
This is a principle that has guided both Republican and
Democratic Administrations for years. Today, the Trump
Administration is dismantling this longstanding commitment.
They are ending TPS for countries where conditions are still
extraordinarily dangerous, countries like Haiti, Venezuela, and
South Sudan.
All of which the Department of State currently lists under
level four, do not travel advisories because of the dangerous
and unstable conditions there. Let us be honest about what this
means, when TPS is terminated for these countries, we are
forcing people to return to real and imminent harm.
The actions by Secretary Noem will lead to people's deaths,
that goes against everything that this country is supposed to
stand for, as well as our own laws, and I am sad to see us go
down this path, but I can't say that I am surprised. This is
all part of this administration's mass deportation agenda,
which is wreaking havoc on this country.
Heavily armed, masked men are terrorizing communities all
across America under the guise of immigration enforcement. They
are snatching people of all immigration statuses on the street
and refusing to even identify themselves. Even U.S. citizens
have not been spared. There are too many reports of U.S.
citizens being wrongfully detained, and often times with
violent force.
Just last week a U.S. citizen in Minnesota was tackled by a
masked agent running full speed. He was put in a choke hold and
dragged into the agent's vehicle, despite repeatedly telling
the agents that he was a U.S. citizen, and that he had proof of
citizenship on his phone, he was held for several hours and
driven to a facility miles away before finally being released
and told to walk back in the snow.
This comes as Homeland Security Investigations has said in
court filings that the Trump Administrations does not consider
REAL IDs to be reliable proof of lawful status. I am not sure
how any of us anywhere in the country are supposed to feel safe
from being kidnaped and disappeared off the streets. The Trump
Administration's relentless attack on TPS is only making things
worse.
TPS recipients aren't outsiders in our communities, they
live in our neighborhoods, raise their families here, and help
keep local economies running. Nearly 600,000 U.S. citizens,
including more than 260,000 U.S. citizen children live in
households with TPS recipients. TPS has also allowed hundreds
of thousands of people to work legally, often in industries
that are already experiencing severe labor shortages.
These are folks working in construction, hospitality, food
processing, manufacturing, the kinds of jobs that keep our
economy running, and that many businesses are struggling to
fill. They pay taxes, support local businesses, and contribute
billions of dollars to our economy every single year.
In all, TPS holders contribute about 21 billion dollars
annually to the U.S. economy, and they pay 5.2 billion dollars
in combined Federal, payroll, State, and local taxes. They also
contribute about 690 million dollars annually to Social
Security. Many TPS holders have lived in the United States for
years, often decades, living in 12-18 month renewal increments.
As such, they are among the most frequently vetted
immigrants in the country. They have followed our laws, paid
their taxes, and demonstrated their commitment to this country.
Instead of stripping them of legal status and sending them back
to dangerous conditions, we should be providing them with a
path to long term stability. This is why when Democrats were in
the Majority, we passed H.R. 6, the American Dream and Promise
Act on a bipartisan basis I might add, in the 116th and 117th
Congress.
That legislation would have provided a path to citizenship
for individuals who currently had or were eligible for TPS. The
Trump Administration loves to claim that it is only going after
the quote ``Worst of the worst.'' We know that this is a lie.
Many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle used to
say that they love legal immigration.
They have been silent as this administration has done
everything it can to end legal immigration, including
decimating TPS, and throwing the lawful status of over a
million people into limbo. We should be using our time to work
toward an immigration system that is modernized, fair, and in
line with the needs of our families and our economy.
Attacking legal immigration is not just morally wrong, it
actually makes no sense. Thank you, and I look forward to
hearing from our witnesses.
I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] The gentlelady yields back. Without
objection, all other opening statements will be included in the
record.
We will now introduce today's witnesses. We begin with Mr.
James Rogers, who is Senior Counsel at America First Legal
Foundation, where he litigates in a number of areas including
border security, election integrity, parental rights, and
administrative and constitutional law.
Before joining America First Legal he served as a Senior
Litigation Counsel at the Solicitor General's Office of the
Arizona Attorney General's Office, as a foreign service officer
at the U.S. Department of State, and as a commercial litigation
partner at Osborn Maledon. Mr. Rogers earned his JD from
Harvard Law School, and an LLM in international law from the
University of Cambridge, and a BA with honors from Brigham
Young University.
Mr. George Fishman is a Senior Legal Fellow at the Center
for Immigration Studies. During the first Trump Administration,
Mr. Fishman served as Deputy General Counsel for the Department
of Homeland Security, and acting Chief Counsel for U.S.
Citizenship and Immigration Services. Prior to that Mr. Fishman
served for two decades as the Republican Chief Counsel for this
Subcommittee, shepherding through Congress countless
conservative immigration related pieces of legislation.
He earned a JD from the University of Michigan Law School,
and a BA in economics and philosophy from the University of
Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Mr. Fishman, welcome back to the
Committee. Mr. James Williams has been the General President of
the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades since
2021. Mr. Williams has served in various positions within the
organization, including leadership roles, since beginning his
career with the union in 1998.
Mr. Larry Celaschi--did I say that right, sir? Has served
as Councilman for the Borough of Charleroi, Pennsylvania, for
more--did I say that right, Charleroi? Charleroi, Pennsylvania,
for more than a decade. In addition to his public service, Mr.
Celaschi worked for 20 years as an insurance agent before
retiring in 2024.
He is also a college sports announcer, a professional
musician, what is your instrument? Drummer, OK, very good, and
a DJ. Mr. Celaschi attended California University of
Pennsylvania, where he earned a BA in economics. We welcome our
witnesses, and we thank each of you for joining us today. I
will begin by swearing you in.
Would you please rise and raise your right hand? Do each of
you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony
you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your
knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Let the
record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the
affirmative, you may be seated, thank you.
I want you to know that your written testimony has been
entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask
that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. When you are
nearing that five minutes, when ten or 15 seconds are left, you
are going to hear this, and then when you are done you are
going to hear this.
Then at some point we will--I don't know what we will do
next, but would ask you to keep it to the 5-minutes if you can,
and we encourage you very much. Also, remind you when it is
your turn, please turn on your microphones so we can all hear
you. Thank you.
We will begin now with Mr. Rogers for five minutes.
STATEMENT OF JAMES ROGERS
Mr. Rogers. Mr. Chair, Ranking Member Jayapal, and the
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to
testify. I have been an attorney since 2009, and a significant
part of my practice for years has been immigration law and
border security. I also bring six years' experience as a
foreign service officer, including two years as a consular
officer conducting visa interviews, and two years as an
attorney advisor in the State Department's legal office.
TPS was supposed to be a limited humanitarian program for
foreign nationals facing armed conflict, natural disasters, or
extraordinary emergencies. That humanitarian intent has been
twisted into permanent amnesty. The program fails at every
measure of its original purpose. It is not temporary, Somalia
has held TPS since 1991, longer than some sitting Members of
Congress have been alive.
It is not protective, TPS recipients remain decades after
the triggering events fade. It is not humanitarian, the
evidence shows economic motivations dominate amongst
beneficiaries, with TPS serving as cover for economic
migration. It is not limited; entire countries receive blanket
designations despite localized crises.
It is not lawfully administered, Congress explicitly barred
judicial review of TPS determinations, yet courts intervene
repeatedly to block lawful terminations. It is not fiscally
responsible, TPS recipients like illegal aliens generally are
predominantly low skilled, and impose net costs on tax payers.
Now, let me unpack some of those points a little more.
First, TPS is a backdoor amnesty mechanism. TPS country
designations can only last up to 18 months, after which DHS
must decide to extend or terminate. DHS has invented, with no
statutory basis, a practice of redesignation.
Whereby it extends eligibility to allow aliens who entered
after the original crisis. For Somalia the cutoff moved from
1991-2012, granting amnesty to 21 years' worth of illegal
entrants. Haiti's cutoff extended from 2010-2023. This creates
direct incentives for illegal immigration.
After Venezuela received TPS in 2021, and was redesignated
in 2023, encounters with Venezuelan nationals topped 300,000
each in fiscal years 2023-2024. Since Haiti's 2021
redesignation, CBP encountered roughly half a million Haitians
illegally crossing our borders. Each redesignation signals that
illegal entry will be eventually rewarded.
UCLA research shows TPS holders average 20 years of
residence, with two-thirds having children here. They are not
temporary visitors, but permanent settlers.
Second, TPS designations are pretextual and over broad. TPS
requires that aliens cannot safely return to their home country
because of war, natural disaster, or extraordinary and
temporary conditions.
Yet, at the same time the State Department has continued to
issue temporary visas to citizens of TPS countries. That is
incoherent. Nonimmigrant visa applicants must prove intent to
return home. If conditions truly prevent safe return, how can
consular officers credibly issue visas? Either conditions are
not uniformly dangerous, undermining TPS' rationale, or State
Department consular officers are illegally issuing visas.
Designations are also geographically overbroad. El Salvador
received TPS for localized earthquakes, yet the designation
covered all Salvadorans. The same happened with Haiti's
earthquake at Port-au-Prince. The statute permits designating
part of a foreign State, but DHS never uses that authority,
resulting in blanket coverage far exceeding humanitarian need.
Third, judges have usurped executive authority. Congress
was clear, the statute specifically says there is no judicial
review, that is a quote, ``No judicial review'' of the
secretary's TPS designations or terminations. Courts have
repeatedly blocked Trump Administration TPS terminations,
including for Haiti, Honduras, Nepal, Nicaragua, and Venezuela.
Demanding extraordinary justification, and scrutinizing
terminations for more strictly than extensions. This one way
ratchet means that TPS only grows, never contracts.
Fourth, TPS imposes net fiscal costs. TPS recipients like
illegal immigrants generally are predominantly low skilled.
Research shows the average illegal immigrant creates a lifetime
net fiscal drain of 87,000-110,000 per person even accounting
for taxes paid.
With 1.3 million TPS recipients, that represents 113-143
billion dollars in total net costs. In conclusion, TPS
functions as permanent amnesty that undermines the rule of law,
burdens taxpayers, and signals worldwide that illegal entry
pays. At minimum Congress should restrict eligibility to
legally admitted aliens.
Eliminate the catch all extraordinary conditions category,
prohibit redesignations, require that designations be
geographically limited, set firm time limits, and prevent
courts from blocking lawful terminations. Better yet, abolish
TPS entirely. Unless reformed or eliminated, TPS will continue
undercutting immigration law, and burdening Americans while
providing minimal genuine humanitarian protection. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rogers follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fishman
for his five minutes.
STATEMENT OF GEORGE FISHMAN
Mr. Fishman. Mr. Biggs, Ranking Member Jayapal, I am
honored to have the opportunity to testify before you, the
Members of the Subcommittee. Who said you can never go home
again? I began working for the Subcommittee in 1995, became
Chief Republican Counsel in 1998, and served in that capacity
until 2018.
While on the Committee I worked under four extraordinary
Chairs, and I worked with extraordinary colleagues, none more
so than Andrea Loving. As the Ninth Circuit has explained
beginning in 1980, Congress introduced a series of bills to
address its concerns with extended voluntary departure.
To provide a more formal and orderly mechanism for group
based grants of humanitarian protection, eventually culminating
in the 1990 enactment of Temporary Protected Status. Extended
voluntary departure is blanket immigration relief for all
members of a national group. The former Chair of this
Subcommittee, Romano Mazzoli, in 1988 described it as having
only the shakiest of legislative foundations without any
statutory criteria.
Congress created TPS for three reasons.
First, to provide immigration relief to many thousands of
illegal aliens from El Salvador.
Second, in the words of Judiciary Committee Ranking Member,
Ranking Republican at the time, Hamilton Fish, because there
was then no clear statutory relief available providing
temporary protection for reasons unrelated to persecution.
Third, because as Subcommittee Chair at the time Bruce
Morrison said,
The Executive Branch had created EVD out of whole cloth, and
there ought to be a statutory structure.
At a 1999 hearing of this Subcommittee on this subject, Chair
Lamar Smith said,
The question is not whether TPS should be granted, in many
instances it should be. The question is whether it is really
temporary, and to what extent TPS invites fraud.
That is the lens through which I view TPS. Congressional
advocates at the time were careful to emphasize that TPS would
be (1) convey a purely temporary status, and (2) require
beneficiaries to leave once their country's designation was
terminated. House Democrat Whip William Gray said,
We are not asking that they be allowed to live indefinitely in
the country.
Chair Mazzoli said,
The aliens must return home unless TPS status is extended.
That beneficiaries will be identified so that when they can
safely return home, we can enforce the laws with respect to
them.
Representative Joe Moakley said,
I have heard it said that if we enact TPS, the people covered
will stay here forever.
Assured people, assured members that I am certain that many
if not most dream of the day that they can return to the land
where they were born, and that a substantial majority will
return voluntarily, and this bill provides a mechanism to
ensure this result. In fact, the Judiciary Committee report
criticized EVD in contrast to Temporary Protected Status,
because quote,
INS cannot effectuate the deportation of aliens whose EVD
status has expired.
At the Subcommittee's 1999 hearing, my colleague Mark Krikorian
testified that,
TPS would simply be a lie if it were used as a backdoor to
permanent immigration.
Predicted that few if any Hondurans or Nicaraguans currently
covered by TPS will ever depart voluntarily or be removed.
These fears were certainly prescient. Last year the Pew
Research Center concluded that some TPS beneficiaries have
lived in the U.S. for two decades or more. In fact, under the
law, periodically following a TPS designation, the DHS shall
determine whether the conditions for such designation continue
to be met.
If it determines that a country no longer continues to meet
the conditions for designation, the DHS shall terminate the
designation. Otherwise, thr DHS shall extend the designation.
The Biden Administration's extension of El Salvador's
designation earlier this year demonstrates why a country can
remain designated for so long.
The DHS did not believe that present day adverse conditions
have to bear any relationship to the original qualifying event
such as a quarter century old earthquake. The DHS did believe
that nonoptimal climactic conditions were sufficient even with
no expectation of change in anyone's lifetime.
In fact, Leon Rodriguez, the Obama Administration's USCIS
director said that,
Intervening factors were relevant regardless of whether they
had any connection to the event that formed the basis for the
original designation.
TPS needs to be reformed, and I thank you for the privilege of
testifying.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fishman follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Fishman, thank you. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Williams for his five-minute testimony.
STATEMENT OF JIMMY WILLIAMS, Jr.
Mr. Williams. Good afternoon, Mr. Biggs, and Ranking Member
Jayapal. As stated, my name is Jimmy Williams, I serve as the
General President of the International Union of Painters and
Allied Trades. I look forward to being able to talk about the
positive impact that TPS recipients have had both in our
industry, in our union, and in our communities.
Our union is made up of over 140,000 men and women across
the United States and Canada, who work largely in the finishing
trades industries. I myself am a construction worker by trade,
and am a fourth-generation member of my union, a union that was
founded by immigrant workers, and our union has always fought
hard to make sure that this body looks to find a humane and
dignifying path for immigrant workers and the contributions
that they have made on our country.
I look forward to talking about the positive impacts that
TPS workers have had on our union for well over 30 years. The
IUPAT has been at the forefront of fighting for true,
comprehensive immigration reform, and we will continue to fight
for true, comprehensive immigration reform. As was stated by
Ranking Member Jayapal, TPS recipients are the most screened
group of immigrants that come to our country.
Every 18 months have to submit to background checks, have
to pay fees to this country. Within our union, those that are
members of our union pay my salary to represent them like I am
here today, and pay your salary in the form of taxes. The
contributions that have been made by TPS recipients go well
beyond just what they do in the workplace, in their communities
as well.
As was stated, they are families, they fought wars, and
they have supported this country at every single level. We owe
them the respect that they deserve, and our union will continue
to fight for them. Within our union we have had numerous,
numerous complaints already by our employers, our partners that
are worried about where the workforce of tomorrow is going to
be.
In the construction industry we are experiencing severe
workforce shortages. We are seeing long term investments that
have been made into TPS recipients in the form of workforce
training that our union alone spends over 125 million dollars a
year to train the highest skilled workforce known to man.
When we talk about immigrant workers as low skilled, it can
become offensive, because I know the investment that we have
made. When you think about what this country is doing to TPS
recipients by pulling the rug out while they are contributing
to this society, it only will drive people further into the
shadows.
Our country cannot look at this issue as just an
immigration issue. It is also a labor law issue. I can tell you
I served 14 years as my union's organizing director, and I have
spoken to the worst of the worst cases of worker
misclassification and wage theft when allowed to be used,
because this country has yet to adopt labor law reform in my
lifetime.
It is impossible for our membership, and for U.S. born
construction workers to compete in such a low road economy.
With the current administration's plan to strip nearly one
million workers of the protections that allow them to work
legally in this country, we run the risk of running one more
million workers into that shadow economy, which has destroyed
working conditions for our members, and for working people here
in the United States.
Look, there is also just what is the country we want to
live in? Our unions were founded by immigrants, and most unions
in this country were. At a time where we actually gave workers
more authority, and more power over their economy, I believe
that this body's inability to act over the course of the last
40 years on comprehensive immigration reform is what has led us
to this point.
It is interesting, you don't hear the President of the
United States, and you don't hear counterparts talk about the
employers that have abused the system of immigration now to
create what is the largest wealth gap since prior to the Great
Depression. We cannot have a conversation here today about
immigration reform if we don't also include how we treat
workers in this country. I thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Williams follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Celaschi
for your five minutes.
STATEMENT OF LARRY CELASCHI
Mr. Celaschi. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member,
and the Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity
to appear before you today. My name is Larry Celaschi, I am a
resident and elected Councilman of the Borough of Charleroi,
Pennsylvania, a small former mill and glass town of
approximately 4,000 residents in Washington County.
I am not appearing before you as someone chasing talking
points, as an academic, or as a policy consultant. I am here as
a local elected official, who has had to look residents in the
eye, and explain why their town no longer feels safe, stable,
or familiar, and why decisions made afar from Charleroi have
imposed consequences our community never agreed to accept.
Charleroi did not volunteer to become a test case for
Federal immigration policy. We were not consulted, we were not
asked about capacity, and we were not equipped for what was
imposed on us. Our borough has been repeatedly referenced in
national media and political discussions as an example of how
current immigration policy plays out in real American
communities.
I am here to explain what that means on the ground.
Charleroi is less than a mile long from its first traffic light
to its last. Under the Biden Administration's approach to
immigration enforcement and refugee placement, our borough
absorbed an estimated 2,000-3,000 migrants in a very short
period of time. That represents a population increase of
approximately 50-75 percent.
No communities large or small can observe that level of
growth overnight without serious consequences. Charleroi has
limited tax base, aging housing stock, and leaning on municipal
services by necessity, not choice. Our police department is
small, our fire department is volunteer, our ambulance service
is nonprofit, and operates on margins of financial viability.
We are not a sanctuary city, a border community, or a major
metropolitan area with layered social service infrastructure,
yet we were treated as if we were. Federal decisions with local
consequences. The placement of large numbers of migrants in
Charleroi was not initiated by our borough council, we were not
asked if we had the housing capacity, public safety resources,
school support, or healthcare infrastructure to absorb this
population.
Federal agencies and nongovernmental organizations placed
individuals into our housing, schools, and neighborhoods
without providing proportional investments in policing,
emergency medical services, housing inspections, translation
services, healthcare capacity, or infrastructure. The outcome
was predictable and preventable.
Strain on public safety and municipal services, Charleroi's
police department, volunteer fire department, ambulance
service, and code enforcement have all experienced a
significant increase in service calls. Many of these calls
involve language barriers, overcrowded housing conditions, and
unfamiliarity with local laws and traffic regulations.
Charleroi does not have a paid, dedicated interpreted or
translation service. Our first responders now spend
significantly more time on each call, stretching limited
resources, and increasing response times for everyone in the
community. Our ambulance service is currently caring for more
than 250,000 dollars in uncollect-ible debt tied to the migrant
emergency calls.
For a small, nonprofit service, this level of uncompensated
care is unsustainable, and places the entire community at risk.
Our volunteer fire department is feeling the brunt of the
financial stress the immigrant community has placed on their
shoestring budget. Our code enforcement office has been
overwhelmed by unsafe and overcrowded rental properties, some
housing double or triple their intended occupancies.
These conditions pose serious risks to occupants,
neighboring residents, and first responders. Let me be clear,
the individuals arriving in Charleroi are human beings, but the
local residents are human beings as well, and they are paying,
tax paying American citizens who have done nothing wrong, and
who are bearing the consequences of the Biden Administration
immigration policies.
The photographs and documentation I submitted are not
exaggerated, and it is certainly not a joke. It makes our
community very angry that our town has experienced frequent car
crashes caused by migrant drivers. This has wreaked havoc on
the not-at-fault parties who had to pay the price. Vehicles
driven by unlicensed, uninsured, and non-English speaking
drivers are involved in daily collisions on narrow residential
streets, cars overturning, plowing into homes, businesses, and
destroying personal property.
Even the current and former Mayor's own property has been
damaged under these circumstances. This is reality in
Charleroi, folks, where the posted speed limit is 25 miles an
hour or less. Families are afraid in their own neighborhoods
and seniors are frightened to walk outside. This is not just
about traffic safety; Charleroi has suffered severe
reputational and legal harm.
The United States Justice Department successfully
prosecuted a Charleroi staffing agency owner, sentencing him to
prison, and awarded over 3.6 million in restitution for
harboring illegal aliens, and failing to pay employment taxes.
There has been a targeted killing of an immigrant tied to the
immigrant van agencies. Another immigrant death is currently
under investigation by the Washington County District
Attorney's Office.
These events have placed a national spotlight on a small
borough that lacks the resources, staffing, and infrastructure
to manage the fallout. Request, as a resident and Councilman of
the Borough of Charleroi, I respectfully urge Congress to
require mandatory consultation with local governments before
migrant or refugee placements occur. Limited placements to
levels communities can realistically--
[The prepared statement of Mr. Celaschi follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, he is over a minute of time, and
you were gaveling down others, so I would appreciate it if you
would stop the witness.
Mr. Celaschi. My apologies.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Celaschi, thank you, we have your full
written testimony here. Appreciate it, thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
Tiffany.
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Celaschi, I will
give you 30 seconds of my time to conclude your remarks. Go
ahead.
Mr. Celaschi. Again, on request, limit placements to a
level communities can realistically support based on housing,
public safety, school, and healthcare capacity. Provide direct,
flexible funding to municipalities absorbing migrant
populations so local taxpayers are not left carrying the
burden. Increased transparency, accountability, and oversight
of nonprofit organizations involved in placement decisions.
Reaffirm that immigration policy must balance humanitarian
objectives with the safety, stability, and well-being of
American communities. Charleroi is not anti-immigrant, I
support legal immigration and the American dream pursued
through lawful means. However, what was imposed on our borough
has pushed public services to the breaking point and
fundamentally altered our community without its consent.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Celaschi, I gave you 30 seconds, you had
45 seconds.
Mr. Celaschi. Thank you.
Mr. Tiffany. Let me ask some questions here. Describe the
role of the agencies and the NGOs, the agencies of the Federal
Government, the NGOs, describe their role in how they brought
these people into your community.
Mr. Celaschi. That is the million-dollar question, the only
thing it comes back to is the NGOs.
Mr. Tiffany. When did it start?
Mr. Celaschi. Roughly about 2022 we saw an influx.
Mr. Tiffany. You are saying it is primarily NGOs that were
driving these people in, is that correct?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. Tiffany. Should locals have a say in this happening?
Mr. Celaschi. Absolutely.
Mr. Tiffany. I just introduced a bill in regard to refugees
called the CARE Act that would give State and locals a say in
this, rather than the Federal Government just taking these
actions and FYI. Has this led to a housing shortage in your
community?
Mr. Celaschi. It has led to long time Charleroi residents
selling their homes and leaving. What used to be a heavily home
ownership to landlord tenant, 75 to 25, 64, has reversed that
trend. It is now heavy on landlord tenant to home ownership,
and a lot of those landlord tenants are immigrant related.
Mr. Tiffany. It has decreased home ownership in your
community?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. Tiffany. Which has always been a bedrock of the
American dream, right?
Mr. Celaschi. You are absolutely right.
Mr. Tiffany. To be able to own your own home. Thank you
very much for that.
Mr. Celaschi. Thank you.
Mr. Tiffany. Did I hear correctly, Mr. Fishman, that
climate change is used as a justification not to return people
to their home countries, did I hear that right?
Mr. Fishman. Not only is it used--
Mr. Tiffany. Turn your mike on.
Mr. Fishman. Sorry about that. Not only is it used, it is
used for climate change, having absolutely nothing to do with
the event that precipitated TPS in the first place, it's not
much rainfall, well that could exist for thousands of years,
that is not temporary.
Mr. Tiffany. Is an earthquake climate change? Are
earthquakes caused by climate change?
Mr. Fishman. I think geological are also packed in there,
geological conditions.
Mr. Tiffany. OK. Does the program as it is currently setup,
and how it has been for the last few decades, does it lead to
fraud in the immigration system?
Mr. Fishman. I think it very likely does lead to fraud,
especially as Mr. Rogers was talking about, people receiving
TPS benefits who came here well after the initial designation,
in many cases by giving fraudulent information about when they
came to the United States.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Rogers, same question.
Mr. Rogers. Yes, it absolutely could lead to fraud. Like
Mr. Fishman said, ``the form just asks for a date for when you
arrived, and they can fill in any date they want.''
Mr. Tiffany. What types of fraud would you see with
something--what types of fraud have you seen as a result of
this?
Mr. Rogers. Well personally as a Consular Officer, I never
dealt with TPS beneficiaries. The kind of fraud you would see
is that kind of thing--falsification of dates. The whole point
of TPS is it is supposed to be temporary. When you have
permanent immigrants coming there is lots of vetting that just
doesn't happen that is required for a permanent immigrant, and
that is one of the problems, this has become a program for
permanent immigration that doesn't do all that vetting.
Mr. Tiffany. I just want to respond in regard to Mr.
Williams' testimony and thank you for that testimony. You
referred to the wealth gap, and you are correct. Part of the
reason for the wealth gap is that those business owners you
were referencing have brought in cheap labor, and it has kept
labor rates down as a result of bringing cheap labor in.
When you have 10 million people that came in the last four
years, that is going to drive wages down. You commented about
the inability to act by Congress. This body acted last session
to put in place a strong immigration reform, we did do that.
I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields. The Chair recognizes the
Ranking Member, Ms. Jayapal.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned,
Temporary Protected Status is a bipartisan program, and it
allows individuals from countries facing war, unrest, and
natural disaster to remain in the United States until it is
safe for them to return to their home countries. These are
individuals, as Mr. Williams testified to, with work
authorization.
Those who have put down roots in their communities,
followed the legal processes that are available to them. These
are not the worst of the worst that Trump claimed he would go
after, and yet this administration is well on its way to
stripping the lawful status of over one million people by early
next year. Mr. Williams, very powerful testimony, thank you.
TPS recipients work in a variety of sectors experiencing
workforce shortages, including childcare, and construction. As
the President of the International Union of Painters and Allied
Trades, can you discuss the impact that the TPS terminations
are having on the work sites where your union members work, and
on the broader economy?
Mr. Williams. For sure, and I would also add hospitality
too--
Ms. Jayapal. Hospitality as well.
Mr. Williams. It is a very important industry that could
see unprecedented worker shortages. In speaking to our members
on the regular, and listen, our members are just like the rest
of this country, very divided around immigration, let us not
kid ourselves. Our members never looked at those brothers and
sisters that they worked side by side with in some very
dangerous, dangerous working conditions as people that were
considered here unlawfully.
The safety issues that can take place, when you remove that
many workers that have been trained, and highly skilled to work
on things like painting bridges, hanging off the side of
buildings, you rely on one another. In our industry you already
are seeing the fear over who are you going to work with side by
side that you can trust?
The person you work with for the last 15 years, or somebody
brand new in the industry? There is definite fear both among
our employers and our members about what is going to happen to
our workers going forward.
Ms. Jayapal. I appreciated your challenging the notion that
these are low-skilled workers, because you have invested a lot
of money into training people, and they bring extremely
valuable skills to the job. I also want to talk about the
effect that the Trump Administration's indiscriminate
immigration enforcement is having on your union members. Do
people feel safe coming into work?
Mr. Williams. No. We have had horror story after horror
story of members of ours that have been granted status in this
country that have been targeted on the job site for removal,
followed to their homes, and on the way to work being pulled
over by local law enforcement, and being detained, only not to
be heard from again. What is going on in our country right now
should alarm all of us.
Should really bring back to the middle a conversation on
how we can deal with immigration as a whole, and coupled with
fixing our broken labor laws to give workers more power at the
bargaining table.
Ms. Jayapal. You have lots of members who are also of
varied immigration statuses, including U.S. citizens, green
card holders, others, what do you hear from them about their
feelings about coming to work, even though they are maybe U.S.
citizens or green card holders?
Mr. Williams. Genuine fear. In certain instances, and I can
tell you this in Southern California and Los Angeles, ever
since the National Guard has been called up, our members are in
fear of even gathering in large groups. We have had to cancel
our union meetings, which have been a tradition of ours for
over 130 years for fear of being targeted just by the way they
look.
Ms. Jayapal. As you know, being on TPS carries a lot of
uncertainty, you only get your status for 12-18 month renewal
periods, and in your testimony you mention the importance of
providing a path to citizenship for TPS holders. Can you
explain why you as the General President of the International
Union of Painters and Allied Trades, and the AFL CIO writ large
think that this is so important for us to do?
Mr. Williams. Because it would remove this question of
temporary that seems to be constantly thrown around when these
workers have contributed to this country way more than they are
given credit for and have been demonized based on that
temporary status. They are members of our communities, they are
parents, and they are longstanding members of our unions.
Ms. Jayapal. I want to give you a chance to respond to the
gentleman across the aisle when he said well, the problem with
wealth, and equality, and the wealth gap is really the fact
that we have got these workers here, I just wondered if you
wanted to say anything about that.
Mr. Williams. It is the biggest misnomer out there. Give
workers more power at the bargaining table over their own
economic standing, and you will see that income gap shortens
for sure. I realize I am out of time.
Ms. Jayapal. That is good, see, some people pay attention
to that. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I do have a unanimous consent
request.
Mr. Biggs. OK.
Ms. Jayapal. Since Mr. Celaschi was announced as a witness
we have been inundated with unsolicited outreach from people
including the Mayor in Charleroi seeking to correct the
record--
Mr. Biggs. What is your request?
Ms. Jayapal. Explaining that his views are not
representative of the community. I am asking unanimous consent
to enter into the record a statement from Kristin Hopkins, the
President of the Charleroi Borough Council.
I am asking for unanimous consent to enter into the record
a statement from Reverend Sharon Woomer, a Pastor in Charleroi,
explaining how the termination of TPS--
Mr. Biggs. Without explanation, or else I will read my--
Ms. Jayapal. --will strain the entire community--
Mr. Biggs. You either want--someone is going to object, or
are you going--
Ms. Jayapal. I ask unanimous consent to enter--
Mr. Biggs. That is enough.
Ms. Jayapal. --into the record the statement from Travis
Vrcek, the Executive Director of McKees Rock Community
Development Corporation, and a volunteer at a church in
Charleroi--
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the
statement from Tim Maddocks, a Researcher and Faculty Member at
the University of Pittsburgh--
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
statement from Nancy J. Ellis, the former Mayor and newly re-
elected Mayor of the Borough of Charleroi, who said Mr.
Celaschi's opinions--
Mr. Biggs. No, no, no.
Ms. Jayapal. --are biased, and will not get a fair view.
Mr. Biggs. No, no, I object. If you are going to read it,
then I am going to object.
Ms. Jayapal. You gave him an extra minute, so I want to
make sure--
Mr. Biggs. I am going to object.
Ms. Jayapal. That we are being fair about the person who is
testifying, making sure people understand that he is not
representative--
Mr. Biggs. You have put in four, you got to put in four,
and then you had to read the statement--
Ms. Jayapal. I didn't read the statement.
Mr. Biggs. Which you know clearly goes beyond the
parameters of normal conduct and decorum--
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, I didn't read the statement--
Mr. Biggs. Yes, you did, yes, you did.
Ms. Jayapal. Let me do it again. I ask unanimous consent to
enter into the record--
Mr. Biggs. You are out of order. I recognize the gentleman
from New Jersey, Mr. Van Drew.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, Mr. Williams, I
am glad to see you here, I support your union, in fact, I am
proud I have got a big plaque in one of my offices from the
painters. I am saying this to you respectfully, there are a lot
of members that you have that would thoroughly, intensely,
completely disagree with what you say.
I hope you meet with all the locals, and all the people
that are really doing the job, and really working hard. I just
want you to know that. Temporary Protected Status was created
with a noble cause in mind, it was meant to reflect America at
its best, a compassionate, but lawful way for our country to
assist those going through unavoidable disaster.
Just as importantly, it was meant to be temporary, that is
why it has that name. Congress was clear about it from the very
beginning, TPS was never, ever intended to be permanent. It was
never meant to be a pathway to permanent residency or
citizenship. It was never intended to replace asylum, and it
was never intended to become an open-ended program that expands
indefinitely without accountability.
That is just wrong. When TPS is limited in scope, limited
in time, and tied directly to real conditions on the ground, it
has worked, and we have seen that. It is America at its best.
In the late 1990s the United States provided temporary
protection to hundreds of thousands of Kosivars fleeing a
brutal contact, they came to America, they were here for a
limited time, it was tied directly to conditions on the ground.
When the conflict ended, they went home. That is the way it
was supposed to work, and it is supposed to look that way. It
helps people through a genuine emergency, it is the right thing
to do, but that is not what is happening now. Designations are
repeatedly extended, entire countries now remain under TPS for
decades, a long time, long, long after the original crisis has
passed.
The message this sends is unmistakable, if you can make it
here, eventually the rules will allow you to bend, and to stay
here, and that is wrong. Because so many people have come here
legally, and worked so hard to be here, and we value
immigration, and we value those immigrants that came here, and
we think that they have value always.
We are misusing the system, and it disrespects those who do
it the right way. The communities, the councilman talked about
it, these places were never asked if they wanted to do this,
they were never consulted, they were never given the resources
to absorb decisions made in D.C. as usual. Schools are
overwhelmed, hospitals are strained, police, and first
responders are stretched thin.
Who pays it all? The hard-working men and women, many of
them members of unions that are tired of it. We care about
people in crisis, and we care also about respecting the law.
That is why this hearing matters. Mr. Chair, thank you for
doing this, we appreciate it. It is exactly what I look forward
to today, discussing this. I am going to ask quick questions
because I don't want to run out of time.
Forgive me for this, I wish we had an hour to go through
this, but we don't, from each member here. I am going to ask a
question, I am going to ask a yes or a no, and first I am going
to ask Mr. Fishman, just a yes or a no. Was Temporary Protected
Status intended by Congress to last for decades?
Mr. Fishman. No.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. We have TPS designations that have
lasted more than three decades, is that correct, yes or no?
Mr. Fishman. At least two--I believe so.
Mr. Van Drew. Two to three decades.
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Van Drew. Was TPS ever intended to become a permanent
alternative to asylum, or lawful permanent residency?
Mr. Fishman. No.
Mr. Van Drew. Was it intended to be an alternative to legal
immigration, which we love?
Mr. Fishman. No.
Mr. Van Drew. Did Congress envision eligibility dates being
repeatedly moved forward to cover people who arrived long after
the original disaster, yes or no?
Mr. Fishman. No.
Mr. Van Drew. What practices occurred repeatedly under
current recent administrations, is that correct?
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Van Drew. If a program lasts for decades and cannot
realistically end, is it still temporary in any meaningful
sense, yes or no?
Mr. Fishman. No.
Mr. Van Drew. For Mr. Rogers, has TPS as currently
administered remained limited in scope and duration as the
statute requires?
Mr. Rogers. No.
Mr. Van Drew. The program is no longer operating as
Congress, this body designed it. Am I correct in saying that?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Van Drew. Do repeated extensions and redesignations of
TPS create incentives for additional illegal immigration?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Van Drew. TPS is no longer just responding to
emergencies, it is shaping future migration decisions
illegally, is that correct?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Van Drew. In practice, once TPS is granted, it really
results in departure every anymore?
Mr. Rogers. No, it doesn't result in departure.
Mr. Van Drew. OK. I don't have any more time, Mr. Chair, I
yield back.
Mr. McClintock. [Presiding.] Thank you. Ms. Scanlon?
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, interesting
hearing. Despite this administration's worst rhetoric about
going after the worst of the worst when it comes to
immigration, time and again we have seen that is just not true,
and nowhere is that more clear than what we see happening with
respect to the TPS program.
Where this administration has targeted people who have been
here legally, sometimes for many, many years, and have suddenly
had their legal status ripped out from under them, all so that
Stephen Miller can try to meet his deportation quotas. In my
district, across the country, Venezuelans, Haitians, Afghans,
and others living here under TPS status have had the rug pulled
out from under them.
TPS is a bipartisan program created by Congress which
allows people from countries facing war, unrest, natural
disasters to stay in the U.S. until it is safe to return. The
fact that this administration is basically declaring war on
Venezuela, and simultaneously saying that Venezuelans can't
stay here anymore is truly through the looking glass, but we
are not expecting consistency from this administration.
Now, Mr. Celaschi raised a number of points, which I am
from Pennsylvania, although on the other side of Pennsylvania,
and it just didn't match up with what I know about that area. I
started pulling up some of the articles that I have read about
Charleroi, and reviewing the materials that have been entered
into the record, and the public record indicates a very
different picture.
That Charleroi is a place with a large meat packing plant,
which is not a job that a lot of Americans seem to want to
apply for anymore, but that they ended up having a large
Haitian immigration population start working in the meat
packing plant. As Mr. Celaschi indicated, there was Federal
enforcement of the fact that there was a contractor there who
was bringing people in.
Illegally transporting them, illegally housing them,
failing to pay wages, failing to do tax reports. Whereas we
have reams of data, reams of studies showing that immigrants in
our country are a net economic benefit, we saw something that I
think Mr. Williams had alluded to, which is that unscrupulous
employers use people's immigration status to undermine working
conditions for everyone.
We saw someone get prosecuted and convicted in Charleroi of
bringing in immigrant labor. Folks who were not getting paid
what they were supposed to, which presumably undermined wages
for folks in the community, and that is exactly what this kind
of chaos in the immigration system can enable.
Instead of going after the folks who are trying to work and
do a job, maybe we should be going after the employers who are
creating these kinds of conditions, and exploiting people in
this way. Now, I did want to just mention something along the
same topic, in Philadelphia I have had the opportunity to see a
great partnership between the Welcoming Center.
Which is a local nonprofit that promotes economic
opportunities and assimilation for newcomers to our country,
and the AFL-CIO, and the shipyard, the Philly Shipyard in our
region. We have a shipyard where we have billions of dollars of
investment going to ramp up American shipbuilding, and we need
welders, and we need shipbuilders, and we need people who can
outfit ships.
Our labor community and the Welcoming Center said wait a
minute, we have some really smart folks here who have work
authorization, they are here legally, let us see if we can help
them transition into those jobs. What can you tell us about
those kinds of projects, Mr. Williams?
Mr. Williams. Yes, those are the projects that we speak of
when we talk about the construction industry, and the need for
a workforce that wants to work in that industry. We don't talk
enough about how this country has treated the way the
construction industry has been a pathway for people to the
middle class.
We have demonized those that work with our hands, and have
forced people into this false notion that just going to college
is the only way to make a living, and to achieve the middle
class. You know what, on some levels it is true, because in
certain aspects of our industry when workers are forced to work
in such low-wage conditions, it is hard to sustain their
families.
People have walked away from the construction industry
because it has been inbred in them throughout high school that
that industry is not an industry that you can support your
families on. It is a real problem that we have.
Ms. Scanlon. Well, certainly an effort we are with you on,
trying to make sure that people understand there is a different
pathway, and the trades are a great way to go. It is another
inconsistency of this immigration enforcement effort that they
are going after people on construction sites, going after
people going to Home Depot to be day laborers. Going after
people who are going to work, these are not the worst of the
worst.
Thank you, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady's time has expired. Mr.
Gill?
Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the
witnesses for coming here, and taking the time to have another
good hearing on the dangers of mass migration, and what
ultimately amounts to is a form of backdoor amnesty. Just a
second ago we were hearing from our colleagues on the other
side of the aisle talking about the benefits of a TPS system
for communities all over the globe.
We need to recenter our conversation and ask what type of
immigration system benefits the American people. We hear a lot
about, and we have heard in the news recently about the number
of Afghanis for instance who have come into the United States
under TPS or other various forms. The question that we need to
ask is how does that benefit our people?
How does it benefit American citizens to bring people in
from a part of the globe that is the most backward, perhaps the
most backward part of the globe. An area where pederastic rape
is considered culturally acceptable, where women are chattel.
How does it benefit American citizens to bring these people
into our country?
We have got to ask the question about unassimilable aliens
who are coming into America. Do we really have an obligation to
throw away our cultural inheritance to promote some sort of
globalist open borders agenda? That is insane, we need to be
looking out for our people, and not for the rest of the globe.
With that said, happy to jump into questions here.
Mr. Fishman, thank you for your testimony earlier. You
talked about the legislative history of the TPS program, how
the author of the bill established it claimed a substantial
majority will return voluntarily, and this bill, according to
them, provides a mechanism to ensure this result. Has that
turned out to be the case?
Mr. Fishman. That has not turned out to be the case,
because in large measure, TPS has just been extended for years
if not decades, so there is never any occasion to test it. When
there was an occasion to test it, Chair Smith back in the 1999
hearing asked the General Counsel of the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, do you have any data on how many people
actually returned when their TPS status went away?
How many people you remove if they don't voluntarily
return? The answer was I have no idea; we don't track that.
Mr. Gill. Right, TPS was intended to be temporary, at least
ostensibly, but we had a 25-year TPS status for Honduras since
1999 due to a hurricane. Similarly, El Salvador was initially
designated in March 2001, based on a series of earthquakes. The
current administration terminated TPS for Honduras, we still
have that status for El Salvador.
I have got another question for you, Mr. Fishman. The
statute that you mentioned earlier clearly states quote,
There is no judicial review with respect to the designation, or
termination, or extension of a designation of a foreign State.
Despite that we frequently see that open border groups sue to
stop the Trump Administration from terminating TPS designation.
Including those that were issued decades ago, I am curious if
you have any thoughts as to why they have been filing these
lawsuits?
Mr. Fishman. Well, they clearly are filing the lawsuits to
frustrate the operation of the TPS law, which says if the
conditions are no longer remaining, it shall be terminated. I
think clearly that is the motivation.
Mr. Gill. Got it. Let me ask you, in January 2021, there
were about 55,000 Haitian TPS beneficiaries in the United
States, and January 2025, there were 342,000, that is about a
six times increase in just four years. The majority of these
people simply just came into the country illegally, they walked
in, didn't have a visa, and were illegally paroled by the Biden
Administration on a categorical basis as we understand, and
given this sort of alleged legal status.
Let me ask you, did the U.S. Government vet any of these
individuals on an individual basis?
Mr. Fishman. They may have looked in databases, but as
Rodney Scott, DHS Secretary Mayorkas' Border Patrol Chief said,
for events that occur outside the U.S.,
We really have no idea, there is no data in the databases
regarding those events. An alien could be a saint, an alien
could be a serial killer.
Those are his words; we have no idea because there is nothing
to look at in the databases.
Mr. Gill. Thank you.
Mr. McClintock. [Inaudible.]
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our
witnesses for being here today. As we have heard, and as we
know, U.S. law permits TPS designation for nationals of a
country when ongoing armed conflict poses a serious threat to
their personal safety. I recently sent a letter to the
administration with the Ranking Member calling out the
hypocrisy of revoking TPS for South Sudan.
A country plagued by armed clashes, with DHS claiming that
there have been improvements in the civil safety outlook. At
the very same time, the administration has designated South
Sudan as a level four travel advisory zone, do not travel.
Stating that the armed conflict is ongoing and includes
fighting between various political and ethnic groups.
As Ms. Scanlon referenced, at the same time the Trump
Administration has revoked TPS protections for hundreds of
thousands of Venezuelans, while escalating actions that could
lead us into war with their home country, which we had a
bipartisan briefing on yesterday. Mr. Williams, President Trump
campaigned on going after the quote, ''Worst of the worst when
it comes to immigrants.''
To be eligible for TPS, you have to not only be from one of
these countries that is designated for TPS, you also have to
meet strict criminal background checks, and be revetted every
18 months to ensure that you are still eligible for TPS. Are
the TPS holders that work with your union, and your colleagues
the kinds of people that Trump has called the worst of the
worst?
Mr. Williams. Yes, I don't know how you could call somebody
who pays their taxes, who works on the books, and works in our
industry the worst of the worst. I was offended by Congressman
Van Drew saying that our membership supports pulling the rug on
TPS. When we speak to our membership, that is their brother,
that is their sister, that is not somebody who is here
unlawfully.
That is somebody who is here lawfully under the protections
that were granted by this body and given every chance to build
an American lifestyle for them and their families.
Ms. Ross. Well, I really appreciate that, Mr. Williams. We
have had a bunch of ICE raids, and CBP raids in my area of
North Carolina, and what has resulted is people who do have
legal status being picked up. Citizens being picked up at
construction sites completely shut down. Now, I actually was
born in Pennsylvania, but I am not from your area of
Pennsylvania.
Let me tell you, the research triangle of North Carolina is
a growing area, and we have active projects, and we cannot have
people who are here legally scared to go to work and to have
the construction projects shut down. Before we talk a little
bit about that, so get ready, Mr. Williams.
I want to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record
the statement from Nancy J. Ellis, the former Mayor and newly
re-elected Mayor of the Borough of Charleroi, who said that the
testimony of Mr. Celaschi's and his opinions are biased and
will not give a fair view of the Haitian community of
Charleroi.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Ross. With the time that you have, a little bit, about
a minute, Mr. Williams talk about the effects on construction
projects, infrastructure projects, when people who have legal
status are afraid to show up to work.
Mr. Williams. Yes, not just afraid to show up to work, but
leaving the industry because of how the industry itself is
being targeted. The effect that we have is it creates an even
larger worker shortage in this country, skilled workers that
have been trained, that have been vetted, that have worked in
the industry for well over 10-15 years.
The effects are dramatic, and as a labor leader I am her
talking about the human aspect of this on our membership, but I
can tell you, our partners, which are our employers in our
industry, those that directly employ TPS recipients are saying
wait a second, this is not what we thought we voted for.
Most of those employers supported this current President of
the United States and have been supporters of many people on
the other side of the aisle than the Democratic party, and that
is the truth. They are concerned about where they are going to
find a workforce into the future.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Biggs?
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Rogers, Temporary
Protected Status, the ``T'' is for temporary, and let us just
talk about this. The status is granted to people who are in an
ongoing armed conflict with a foreign State, is that correct?
Mr. Rogers. Correct.
Mr. Biggs. It isn't could lead us into war, could be a war,
could be a conflict, that doesn't count, is that right?
Mr. Rogers. Correct, armed conflict is a statutory term,
there has to be a war going on.
Mr. Biggs. Yes, a foreign State requests for TPS because it
temporarily cannot handle the return of its nationals due to an
environmental disaster. Environmental disaster, right? In some
cases, it might be an earthquake or a volcanic eruption in some
places we have seen. When that is over, and that has been
treated, that situation that warranted the TPS status
dissipates, isn't that true?
Mr. Rogers. Correct.
Mr. Biggs. Then, you get to extraordinary and temporary
conditions, which could be--not on a group basis, but on a
particularized basis for individuals coming through, maybe it
could be a health situation even. This Temporary Protected
Status where they are going to grant you parole to basically be
coming in for a period of time, but getting to this thing, we
just heard a witness testify that these people are getting
criminal background checks. Do they get a criminal background
check?
Mr. Rogers. It is impossible to do a criminal background
check about their activities in their home country.
Mr. Biggs. If they are coming in, and they are getting TPS
status under CHNV, if you remember that program that was given
by Biden, it was impossible to do a criminal background check,
because we don't have access to Venezuela's records. If they
are coming from Somalia, we don't have access to Somalia
because Somalia doesn't even have records. It is just BS to say
everybody is fully vetted, they are, we know, we know.
Because we don't know. To say otherwise means you have
never been to the border, and watched this happen. Should never
testify to something you haven't seen, or don't know for sure.
When we have the CHNV program, you have got people coming in,
how many people that have TPS are illegally in the country?
They started off illegally in the country.
Mr. Rogers. I don't have the exact numbers, I am not sure
anyone really tracks that, but it is a majority of them, it is
the vast majority of them.
Mr. Biggs. The 1.2 or whatever million it is, the majority
got into this country illegally, for instance Syrians, how many
came in illegally? We don't know a lot; more than half are the
estimates. Haitians, how many came in? More than half, under
the CHNV program. The CHNV program was not authorized to allow
anyone in legally.
CHNV program simply said we are not going to enforce the
law, right? That is what happened under the Biden
Administration. How many of them got TPS status? We know that
there is over 600,000 Venezuelans who got TPS status, the vast
majority of them under the Biden Administration's CHNV program,
right? Isn't that true, Mr. Rogers?
Mr. Rogers. Correct, the justification was poverty, and
just difficult conditions in the country. It wasn't even one of
the things we were talking about, environmental conditions, or
war, it was--
Mr. Biggs. None of the statutory provisions then?
Mr. Rogers. Correct. They brought in those that
extraordinary circumstances way past what the statute actually
meant.
Mr. Biggs. We have got going back to El Salvador. El
Salvador by the way, I have been to El Salvador in the last two
years, it is now one of the safest countries in the world. You
can go ask their leadership, and they will say Andy, ''we will
leave you in this alley overnight, you might get a little
uncomfortable because it is a little cold, but guess what Andy?
1Nobody is going to harm or molest you''; it is safe, this is
the safest country. Guess what? You have got 230,000 El
Salvadorans that have been here for 25-plus years. That ain't
temporary anymore, that becomes something more accessible than
a refugee claim or an asylum claim, because it becomes
permanent. That becomes the next question.
They have to come in every 6-18 months for review, and
under what authority are they extended protected status, under
what authority do we essentially make it permanent? For
instance, Syrians, 20 years, El Salvadorans, 25 years, under
what authority, Mr. Rogers? If there are any.
Mr. Rogers. There is none. The statute requires re-
evaluation every 6-18 months, and what the Trump Administration
is doing is just re-evaluating, and finding that those
conditions aren't met. It is not pulling anything back from
people, it is just pulling anything back from people, it is
just deciding not to renew something that the statute requires
them not to renew.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time is expired. Mr.
Garcia?
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Chair McClintock. The Trump
Administration and its loyalists in Congress continue their
efforts to persecute immigrants, and undermine our legal
immigration system. Today their target is Temporary Protected
Status, they are here to scapegoat and demonize people with TPS
to justify Trump and Miller's decision to send a million people
with legal status back to countries with extreme levels of
armed conflict, and other conditions.
As my colleagues have pointed out, many TPS recipients have
lived in the U.S. for decades. They are our friends, neighbors,
and community members. They contribute roughly $21 billion to
our economy, and they pay over $5 billion in taxes to Federal,
State, and local entities. Republicans don't care about their
economic contributions, or about supporting this engine of
economic growth.
They are committed to a xenophobic agenda that blames
immigrants for every problem in society. It is the same
strategy that Vice-President J.D. Vance used when he lied about
Haitians with TPS eating people's pets. It is the same strategy
that Donald Trump uses when he refers to other nations as
quote, ``Shithole countries.''
Republicans are doing this because they have no plan on
affordability, on healthcare, on education, on housing, on
public safety, or fixing our broken immigration system. Their
only plan is to blame hardworking immigrants. Their assault on
immigrants is fundamentally an assault on workers, and it is a
continuation of the administration's antiworker policies.
The President has gutted agencies overseeing occupational
safety standards, lowered the minimum wage for Federal
contractors, terminated Department of Labor grants that fought
child labor, and supported workers' rights, and stripped
Federal workers of their collective bargaining power. Mr.
Williams, thank you for being here today, and for your
commonsense.
Can you talk about how going after lawful working
immigrants like TPS recipients fits into the antiworker agenda,
and how does aggressive immigration enforcement disrupt work
sites, and destabilize communities?
Mr. Williams. Yes, thank you, Congressman. Thank you for
your words about the real impacts that the American workers
faced. It is not the immigrant worker that our American workers
should be worried about, it is corporate America who has truly
exploited the broken labor laws of this country, coupled with a
broken immigration system.
It is probably the No. 1 factor, and at least in the
construction industry, that has led to the decline in wages,
real wages being earned, the ability to afford the communities
that they live in, to be able to retire with dignity. To be
able to provide healthcare, all these assaults on the working
class have been systematically put in place, and by design.
Yet, we don't talk about who the real people that are
destroying the working class in this country, and it is
corporate America's insatiable desire to want to put profits
over people, and that includes immigrant workers as well. They
have been unwilling victims of that system now for generations.
I am 47 years old, it has been going on my entire life.
Mr. Garcia. On the disruption of work sites?
Mr. Williams. The work sites in this country have been
disrupted most recently based on these immigration raids and
continue to be disrupted. You never see the person employing
them put in the back of a van. You have never seen them put on
TV as people that are exploiting workers. We have lost our way
in the way we view this.
Mr. Garcia. Do these raids at work sites make workers
safer, or does it put them at risk?
Mr. Williams. It puts them at extreme risk. Listen, you
can't work safely when you are worried about being targeted for
removal. The truth is people just won't show up to work, which
we have seen in North Carolina, in Florida, where you have a
disproportionate amount of TPS holders too in the State of
Florida, Texas, and New York.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you so much. This administration's TPS
policy is a disgrace. Congress should act and pass the American
Dream and Promise Act, which would provide stability, a path to
citizenship, and a boost to the economy.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Knott?
Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it defies
commonsense and logic that the talking point that the previous
questioner keeps repeating, that regardless of where you come
from, if you come here legally or illegally you will lead to a
robust economy. It doesn't matter if you are literate, it
doesn't matter if you are skilled, and it doesn't matter if you
are a member of a cartel.
There is just a carte blanche statement that if you come to
this country from anywhere other than America, America will
prosper. It is just such a reckless statement, it defies logic,
and it is not borne out in the statistics. Many people from
around the world come here and live off of American charity,
they live off of criminal livelihoods, and they live off of
fraud as we have seen in Minnesota.
This idea that every immigrant is a force multiplier
regardless of legal status, is a force multiplier for good is
just an absolute farce. Mr. Rogers also wanted to talk to you
about this idea that the Biden Administration was a responsible
arbiter of legal immigration policy. From my understanding,
from where I sit, they used the Temporary Protected Status
Program to usher in huge amounts of unvetted people from all
over the world. Is that correct?
Mr. Rogers. Yes, that is correct--
Mr. Knott. Explain how they did that. Sorry, go ahead.
Mr. Rogers. It is not just Temporary Protected Status, they
abused scores of immigration laws. They abused the parole
power, they stretched every statute they could way beyond
breaking point to justify illegal entry of 10-20 million
illegal immigrants.
Mr. Knott. How many people were ushered in under the TPS
program?
Mr. Rogers. The TPS program I believe went up from 400,000
to 1.3 million, so about a million people, just under a
million.
Mr. Knott. Mr. Williams, just off the cuff, do you believe
that that was done responsibly?
Mr. Williams. Because this country has no comprehensive
immigration reform, I do believe it was the only path to
provide people with true work authorization in this country.
Mr. Knott. I am asking do you think that Joe Biden operated
responsibly using TPS to usher in almost 1.3 million people
into the country?
Mr. Williams. I am saying the system is broken as it stands
now, and I don't believe President Biden authored in anybody.
We have people coming into this country with no pathway--
Mr. Knott. He did usher in people.
Mr. Williams. I don't think personally--
Mr. Knott. His administration did.
Mr. Williams. Fair.
Mr. Knott. Is that a fair use of the program, to bring in
over a million people who were not vetted?
Mr. Williams. When there are over and approaching 20
million workers in this country that are coming to this country
without any system to greet them at our borders, and to come in
legally, and the TPS program has been the one pathway for
people to receive work authorization, I believe that the
extension of TPS should be considered even further by this
body.
Mr. Knott. You are avoiding the question. Is granting TPS
to a million unvetted people responsible?
Mr. Williams. I do believe it is.
Mr. Knott. You believe it is?
Mr. Williams. I do.
Mr. Knott. OK, well that is a very irrational position that
you take. Do you think that people who were brought in under
that program caused harm to the country?
Mr. Williams. I do not, because they have work
authorization--
Mr. Knott. Not one, not one? You are speaking in very broad
terms, you don't think one person who came in under Biden's
immigration recklessness has harmed the country?
Mr. Williams. You asked, does the process of TPS cause
harm? Do I have any understanding of one person? I don't think
that is a fair question to ask.
Mr. Knott. No, I asked did the Biden Administration use TPS
responsibly?
Mr. Williams. I believe TPS is the most responsible way for
immigrants of this country to come and work in our country
legally.
Mr. Knott. Did the Biden Administration use the program
responsibly? It is beyond any shadow of a doubt that he ushered
in--
Mr. Williams. I believe they did.
Mr. Knott. Over a million people with no vetting.
Mr. Williams. I believe they did.
Mr. Knott. You believe they did?
Mr. Williams. I do.
Mr. Knott. All right. Now, Mr. Rogers, back to you. Please
explain for the room how that program was abused under the
Biden Administration.
Mr. Rogers. Well, first, they used pretextual
justifications to grant TPS, for example, to Haiti and
Venezuela. They just used general poverty and difficult
conditions in the country, which is never what TPS was designed
for. To the point about needing workers, we actually have work
visas, we have the H-2 Visa which lets temporary workers enter
the country lawfully.
There is a process to bring those workers, we don't need
TPS to do that, there is no reason for that.
Mr. Knott. Sure. In terms of the abuses, again, we see this
talking point echoed repeatedly, that vetting is thorough. Can
you please dispel that notion that it was applied the last four
years?
Mr. Rogers. The vetting is impossible. As we have said, you
can't. When an immigrant applies for a work visa, or for an
immigrant visa, they have to get a police certificate from
their local police station in their home country. None of that
happens under TPS. If you look at the form, it is just a bunch
of yes or no questions. Have you ever done X or Y, and they
self-report.
Mr. Knott. Right. Basically what we have concluded, looking
at Biden's Administration administering the TPS program, is
that it fits within a broader narrative that there really
should not be any restriction for any person who wants to come
into the United States. Is that fair?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Knott. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. [Inaudible.]
Ms. Crockett. I didn't hear him, sorry. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. President Trump has made it clear that he only opposes
lawful immigration when non-White people immigrate to the
United States. His immigration agenda isn't about public
safety, or economic stability, or jobs, it is about racism. It
was racist during his first administration; it is racist now.
His first administration, he has hired a bunch of racists
to carry it out. In fact, I am going to pause here really
quickly, I know we are talking about TPS, but I don't know if
anyone else has mentioned the fact that ICE agents were
literally dragging a pregnant woman just this week in a viral
video. Don't tell me that this isn't about cruelty, because it
is.
Moving on. The President is now on record admitting to
calling majority Black and Brown nations quote, ``Shithole
countries.'' He consistently refers to Black and Brown people
as quote, ``low IQ, stupid, or nasty.'' His agenda is about one
thing, giving racial preference to specific people seeking to
immigrate to America, which is illegal and unconstitutional.
Nevertheless, they are going to keep trying to get all to
believe that immigrants are the cause of all your problems.
Here is the truth, immigrants are not responsible for a
billionaire CEO refusing to increase your wage. The corporation
you work for isn't replacing your job with artificial
intelligence because of Haitian refugees.
Your landlord isn't increasing your rent because someone
who is fleeting gang violence in Central America moved into
your community. A Palestinian kid who was afforded a
scholarship to study at an American university isn't
responsible for your child's tuition increasing. Latino farm
workers aren't responsible for prices of your groceries
increasing.
Let us be clear, blaming migrants, deporting migrants, and
ending TPS won't improve the lives of most Americans. As you
can see, we are in the middle of the largest, most inhumane
deportation program in American history. Guess what, housing is
still unaffordable, healthcare is still too expensive,
groceries are still too expensive, wages aren't keeping up with
inflation, and jobs are still being outsourced.
Maybe it is not the immigrants, maybe it is the failed
Republican policies. In my State of Texas the Republicans
control the House, the Senate, and the Governor's mansion. In
the United States the Republicans control the House, the
Senate, and the White House. Maybe it is the fact that
Republicans would rather give permanent tax cuts to
billionaires, but won't even give middle class Americans
temporary healthcare benefits.
Maybe it is the fact that President Trump has the
wealthiest cabinet in American history, and these people are
out of touch with the American public. Now, Mr. Williams, will
ending TPS help or hurt the finishing trades industry your
union members work in?
Mr. Williams. It will hurt the construction industry as a
whole.
Ms. Crockett. Let me tell you this, or let me ask you this,
this ain't in here. Has it already hurt the construction
industry?
Mr. Williams. It has, because of the fear and uncertainty.
Ms. Crockett. There is a lot of fear, there are workers
that are not showing up to their jobs, regardless of their
status, because of how immigration is being carried out under
this administration, is that correct?
Mr. Williams. That is correct.
Ms. Crockett. Will ending TPS help or hurt job site safety?
Mr. Williams. It will hurt job site safety.
Ms. Crockett. Will ending TPS help or hurt affordability in
our communities?
Mr. Williams. It will hurt affordability in our
communities.
Ms. Crockett. Exactly. As people are complaining about the
fact that housing is up, you have got to think about what those
input costs look like. Those input costs, besides the fact that
the has been reckless, and ridiculous, and not been reined in
as it relates to the tariffs, and we know that we get a lot of
lumber out of Canada, we want to fight with Canada, we want to
fight with Mexico.
Then, we want to tell people that have come here and are
going through the process, and I am not going to say that any
process is perfect, but the last time that I checked,
Republicans continue to offer us concepts of a plan instead of
actual plans, because they would rather campaign on the chaos
instead of fixing it. Listen, none of us sitting here, whether
you are a Democrat or a Republican wants to be unsafe in our
country.
I want to be clear, I don't want a criminal in my
neighborhood either. But going after all these countries when
we talk about--it looks like they want to end TPS for Burma, El
Salvador, Ethiopia, Haiti, Lebanon, Somalia, South Sudan,
Sudan, and Syria, they actually do have Ukraine got extended a
little bit, and Yemen got extended a little bit.
The vast majority of these countries, there is one thing in
common. A lot of those people from those countries have a
little bit of melanin in their skin.
With that, I will yield.
Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady yields back. Mr. Onder?
Mr. Onder. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For decades Temporary
Protected Status has been systematically distorted far beyond
what Congress intended. What was meant to be a short-term
humanitarian measure has become a backdoor pathway for illegal
aliens to remain in the United States indefinitely, often with
full work authorization, and no meaningful enforcement of the
law.
Under the Biden-Harris Administration this abuse has not
only continued, but it has exploded. The 1.5 million TPS
recipients are now in the United States, a number that has
quadrupled over the past four years of the Biden
Administration. This reckless expansion was not authorized by
Congress, and it imposes real and growing costs on American
communities.
Towns like Springfield, Ohio, Charleroi, Pennsylvania,
Logansport, Indiana, and towns that never consented to become
immigration test cases are now overwhelmed. Local leaders and
residents are pleading for help as thousands of TPS recipients
pour into their communities with little warning, and no Federal
support, and often as we have heard today, stayed forever.
These communities are reporting rising crime and traffic
incidents, school systems are stretched beyond the breaking
point, and public health concerns, including reappearance of
diseases once eradicated in the United States are now with us
again. Hospitals are being pushed to their limits. Mr.
Celaschi, has the arrival--when I was in medical school
residency fellowship, internal medicine, I saw a total of maybe
half a dozen cases of tuberculosis.
They were generally in either elderly homeless people, they
were in people who were immune compromised, and some were in
immigrants. Has the arrival of TPS recipients in your community
coincided with the re-emergence of diseases that we generally
don't see in America?
Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge there have been a
couple of cases that have come to the forefront.
Mr. Onder. Have you seen those in Charleroi?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. Onder. Have you seen some cases in Charleroi?
Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge there have been a
few cases.
Mr. Onder. In schools?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. Onder. Presumably young, healthy people bringing in TB?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. Onder. Do you know whether those have been multidrug
resistant TB cases? That has been a problem recently.
Mr. Celaschi. I do not know that.
Mr. Onder. Yes. Are there other ways the TPS program has
affected American students who attend your schools?
Mr. Celaschi. Really can't get into much from the school
district. I know that they were frustrated at the very
beginning, they were not receiving any funding, nor did the
borough receive any funding. They did through, I guess months,
years, they received a little bit to help with the influx of
immigrants, but the borough has still not received anything.
Mr. Onder. Have the schools had to hire more English
learner teachers because of this influx?
Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
Mr. Onder. OK. Mr. Rogers, 1.5 million TPS recipients, when
deciding to award Temporary Protected Status, is any
distinction made between people who have come to this country
legally or illegally?
Mr. Rogers. No, no distinction at all.
Mr. Onder. Do you know, the 1.5 million, this may have been
in someone's testimony, but do we know how that breaks down as
people who have come here legally versus illegally?
Mr. Rogers. I don't have the specific breakdown, but it is
generally agreed that the vast majority are illegal.
Mr. Onder. It was, I believe your testimony, Somalia, TPS
status since 1991, I had not yet finished my medical training
in 1991, I had a lot more hair, what in the world, 1991, is it
in Federal law, some procedure to end Temporary Protected
Status at some point?
Mr. Rogers. Yes, the designation of a country only lasts
six to 18 months, and then DHS is required to re-evaluate and
decide whether to renew or not. It has just been renewed every
time it has come up--
Mr. Onder. It has just been renewed indiscriminately
without any potential--the earthquake was 15 years ago, maybe
people could go home perhaps?
Mr. Rogers. Yes, until the Trump Administration, it was
just renewed.
Mr. Onder. Until the Trump Administration, OK. Well, thank
you very much for your testimony. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Celaschi,
would you like to respond to the drive by smear by Ms. Ross
that you are out of touch with your town?
Mr. Celaschi. Could you repeat?
Mr. McClintock. Would you like to respond to the drive by
smear we heard from Ms. Ross a few minutes ago?
Mr. Celaschi. I wish you would have let it into the record,
because names that were delivered, our current mayor is in full
support of mayor. He is a Republican mayor in town. There were
claims that the future mayor, and they named her name, Ms.
Ellis, she declared not to be the future mayor; it was a front
page article that she was taking the seat on council, and not
mayor, but she won both seats, so that was inaccurate as well
too.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Mr. Fishman, the statue clearly
states that there is quote,
There is no judicial review with respect to the designation, or
termination, or extension of a foreign State on the TPS list.
Despite that, we frequently see the open border groups sue to
stop the Trump Administration from terminating TPS
designations. How can that be the case, and what should we do
about it?
Mr. Fishman. Well, they do it--some of these Federal courts
do it on a theory that doesn't apply to constitutional
violations, that doesn't apply to systemic issues independent
of individual determination. The Supreme Court has stepped up
this year, and stayed a lot of those injunctions, and allowed
the Trump Administration to actually carry forth the law, and
terminate, where appropriate, past designations of TPS.
Mr. McClintock. The law in your opinion is clear; it is
just certain partisan judges who were abusing it?
Mr. Fishman. Well, I mean the law could be made stronger if
there was an opportunity to reform it. Even under the current
language, it is a stretch, and the Supreme Court has stepped in
to prevent that sort of stretch.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Rogers, what is your view of that?
Mr. Rogers. The law is very clear, it says no judicial
review. I don't see how you can get any clearer than that.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Fishman, this Subcommittee has received
extensive testimony about how illegal labor forces down the
wages of American workers with whom that labor competes. As we
flood these markets with illegal labor, the supply of labor
increases, thus the wages for that labor decrease. What would
you advise someone like the Democratic witness who assures us
that he is looking out for the best interest of his members?
Mr. Fishman. I worked, when I worked for the Subcommittee
we had many hearings on the deleterious effect on American
workers, both of any race or ethnicity on mass low-skilled
immigration. Not only does it lower wages, but there has been a
collapse in the labor force--
Mr. McClintock. That is simple economics, right? You flood
a market with--
Mr. Fishman. Yes, a collapse in labor force participation.
Mr. McClintock. Additional labor, the price of that labor
is suppressed or declines, it is a supply a demand function.
Mr. Fishman. Exactly, the result is currently many working
age Americans simply are dropped out of the labor force because
of the wage rate that mass low-skilled immigration has caused.
Mr. McClintock. We are talking about adding a million such
people is a good thing for American workers, that we need them
in our shipyards and construction. Yet, Temporary Protected
Status is by definition a temporary program. Are the Democrats
tacitly telling us they intend to make it a permanent program?
Mr. Fishman. What they are saying is completely at odds
with what the Democrats who championed TPS in 1990 promised TPS
was for.
Mr. McClintock. Well, it seems to me that if they want to
make it a permanent program, they ought to just say so, and
attempt to that through legislation, and level with the
American people that this is their objective. If you are an
American construction worker or shipyard worker, you just have
to suck it up, and put up with suppressed wages indefinitely,
because after all they are paying union dues, so the union
bosses are happy. Is that essentially it?
Mr. Fishman. Exactly, if you want amnesty, if that is your
goal, call it what it is.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Celaschi, in your opinion, is TPS as it
is currently conceived in the best interest of the American
people, or is it more benefiting foreign national interests and
business interests that want to exploit these populations for
cheap labor regardless of any effects that they have on the
communities that these people resettle in?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes, I absolutely agree with that.
Mr. McClintock. Your experience is consistent with that in
Charleroi as an elected official?
Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
Mr. McClintock. Great, I am going to yield back. Recognize
Mr. Roy. I'm sorry, Mr. Jayapal for a unanimous consent
request.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to ask
unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from
FWD.us called ``Temporary Protected Status Protects Families
While also Boosting the U.S. Economy.''
I would like to enter into the record, this is from The
Guardian, ``A Pennsylvania Town is Thriving with Haitian
Immigrants and is the Latest Target of Republican Hate.''
I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the
record an article from The Washington Post called, ``How Trump
Warped and Weaponized a Small Pennsylvania Town's Immigration
Story.''
I would like to enter into the record an article from the
American Business Immigration Coalition entitled, ``Facts
Immigrants aren't Stealing your Jobs or Lowering Wages.''
Mr. McClintock. Without objection. Mr. Hunt?
Mr. Hunt. Thank you so much, and thank you witnesses for
being here today. As of today, roughly 1.5 million people in
the U.S. have Temporary Protected Status. Most of these TPS
recipients entered the U.S. during the Biden-Harris
Administration. They permitted millions of undocumented
individuals to enter our country under the pretense of quote,
``protection.''
What was once intended to temporarily help those who live
in the countries that are in ongoing armed conflicts, serious
natural disasters, or aliens returning to their country of
origin is not in the interest of the United States has now
become a way for Democrats to import their own voters, as we
have seen for the past four years.
Nearly 725,000 TPS illegal migrants entered the country
during the Biden-Harris Administration, often with little to no
information provided about their reasons for entry. Illegals
from Haiti, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Sudan, Nicaragua, and El
Salvador, many of these criminal aliens have claimed American
lives, innocent victims such as Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray,
Rachel Morin, and Nathaniel Baker.
This must, and it will stop, it has stopped under the
current administration. The Trump Administration has made
remarkable progress reaching its seven consecutive months
without illegal border crossings, the fewest that we have seen
in the modern history of this great Nation. Congress needs to
act to make sure criminals, gang members, cartels, and
terrorists never set foot on American soil.
As somebody that served and fought in combat for this great
Nation, that is exactly why I served this country, and it is
exactly why I continue to serve in the halls of Congress, to
continue to protect my fellow Americans. Mr. Celaschi, thank
you for being here, sir. In your testimony you stated that many
residents in your town have serious concerns about housing
capacity, safety resources, school support, and healthcare
resources.
You also made it clear that your city did not sign up to be
used as a test subject. Let me make it clear, your request to
Congress is not absurd, it is not cruel, but rather reasonable,
and based on commonsense, and I want to thank you for that.
What your town has experienced is unfair, it is unjust, it is
un-American.
With that being said, I want to give you some time on how
your commonsense request will benefit your community and local
residents.
Mr. Celaschi. Everything begins with communication, and
there wasn't any from the start. If that had been brought to
the table, I think the dialog would have become more healthier.
All this has caused is a lot of division and a lot of hate. I
am sorry to say that. I feel that from the Federal Government
to the State Government, again, if this would have been handled
more professionally, I think everyone at the table in our small
community could have come up with a good solution.
Being that we weren't permitted to be involved, and they
dumped these immigrants into our community, and again, I have
compassion for them too, they are human beings, as I stated.
This went over and above something that should have been placed
in a small town such as Charleroi, Pennsylvania.
Mr. Hunt. Sir, are you xenophobic?
Mr. Celaschi. Pardon?
Mr. Hunt. Are you xenophobic?
Mr. Celaschi. Pardon?
Mr. Hunt. Are you xenophobic, are you racist, are you
xenophobic? Do you hate immigrants, do you hate people that
come to this country looking for a better way of life, do you
hate them, or?
Mr. Celaschi. Sir, I have three biracial grandchildren who
I love.
Mr. Hunt. Well, I will be damned. This is literally about
keeping your community safe, and literally about what it means
to be an American regardless of the way you look, it is about
taking care of our citizens. Would you agree with that
assessment, sir?
Mr. Celaschi. Absolutely.
Mr. Hunt. Well, thank you very much for your passion, I
really, really appreciate that. I have got a minute left, and I
want to end with this. Under the Biden Administration our
country was invaded by illegal immigrants period. It was an
invasion of 20 million people that entered this country
illegally, which is completely unacceptable.
Now, the Trump Administration has taken decisive action to
clean this mess up and make sure that we don't ever see
anything like we saw for the past four years again. President
Trump got re-elected in large part because of what happened on
our Southern border. As a Texan, as somebody that bore the
brunt of a lot of these issues, and a lot of these problems
during the Biden Administration, I am here to tell you that I
am utterly disgusted at what I saw.
No, I am not racist, and no, I am not xenophobic. I am a
person that is willing to die for my country, and I am a person
that fought for my country in combat. I want everyone to know
this, that Americans need to be the top priority in our
country. Every other country in the world operates like that,
and so should we. Thank you for being here, God bless you, and
Merry Christmas, sir.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Roy?
Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair for holding this hearing, I
appreciate the witnesses, thank you for being here. A couple of
questions, and I think I will start with you, Mr. Rogers. I am
just going to level set, and some of this may have been covered
before I got here. Under President Biden the TPS population
increased from I believe somewhere around 410,000 at the end of
the first Trump Administration.
To 1.5 million before Biden left office this January,
basically quadrupling, is that roughly correct?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Roy. In other words, and I have heard some people
talking about some of the data, but I just do think it merits
observation for the American people. In other words, Biden
added over 700,000 aliens to the TPS population, meaning over
70 percent of all aliens granted TPS initially entered the U.S.
during the Biden-Harris Administration?
Mr. Rogers. Correct.
Mr. Roy. According to Federal data and Pew Research, most
TPS holders are illegal aliens who crossed the border without
authorization, or overstayed their visa before receiving TPS,
not individuals who were lawfully present on valid, temporary
visas, do you agree with that assertion?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Roy. During the Biden Administration's four years,
nearly three million illegal aliens were paroled into the
interior, and he even created the CHNV program in 2022, which
created specific parole programs to admit hundreds of thousands
of Haitians and Venezuelans, correct?
Mr. Rogers. Correct.
Mr. Roy. Venezuela and Haiti received TPS designations in
2023-2024 respectively, both after the launch of the mass CHNV
parole program in 2022, right?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Is it plausible that the Biden Administration used
TPS to allow large numbers of illegal aliens, Venezuelans and
Haitians to remain in the U.S., since most of these individuals
likely did not enter the U.S. lawfully or qualify for asylum?
Mr. Rogers. It is definitely plausible, in fact, there were
designations at the beginning of his term, and then they
backdated, and extended the dates after they let all those
people in.
Mr. Roy. Right, impeached Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas blew
our borders wide open by exploiting asylum and parole, it is
fairly well documented. In my view, breaking the law in doing
so. I would think it is well within the realm of possibilities
that TPS was also abused to shield those released illegal
aliens from deportation, right?
Mr. Rogers. Yes, it is definitely plausible.
Mr. Roy. It just wasn't Haiti and Venezuela, right?
Mayorkas and Biden used TPS to shield upwards of 700,000
illegal aliens from Afghanistan, Burma, Cameroon, El Salvador,
Ethiopia, Honduras, Lebanon, Nepal, Nicaragua, Somalia, South
Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, and Yemen, all true, right?
Mr. Rogers. Correct.
Mr. Roy. Let me ask you this. The premise--and maybe I will
ask you, Mr. Fishman, just because I want to spread the wealth
here a little bit, I am having fun with George. The premise for
TPS is providing temporary immigration relief to aliens already
in the U.S. when a catastrophic event occurs in their home
country?
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Yet, beginning with TPS Liberia in 1997, the
Executive Branch unilaterally created a new authority called a
TPS redesignation, right? Which it uses to move up the
eligibility cutoff date, and cover aliens who come to the U.S.
after the event that resulted in the initial granting of TPS?
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Roy. The term redesignation does not appear in Section
244 of the INA, right?
Mr. Fishman. It does not.
Mr. Roy. Nevertheless, the Executive Branch, including the
Biden Administration, used redesignation to apply the initial
designation, even if the event occurred 10-20 years ago to
cover recent U.S. present illegal aliens from that country, is
that right?
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Can you explain how the Executive is supposed to
square this redesignation with congressional intent given that
it is not stated anywhere in the relevant INA sections?
Mr. Fishman. Well, the USCIS Director under President
Biden--President Obama, I am sorry, was very clear. DHS
designation can be extended based on things, adverse climactic
conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with why TPS was
designated for that country in the first place.
Mr. Roy. Like the abuse of parole, like the abuse of
asylum, it is abuse of the statutes that Congress put forward
to do these designations, wouldn't you say?
Mr. Fishman. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Mr. Rogers, do you agree with that?
Mr. Rogers. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Mr. Chair, I appreciate you holding this hearing.
I think this is an important topic that we need to elevate. I
will yield back my last 30 seconds for the sake of time.
Mr. McClintock. I appreciate that, the gentleman yields
back. We have no one else here to continue questioning, so we
will conclude today's hearing. I want to thank our witnesses--I
am told Mr. Grothman is on his way, but if he is not here now,
we will just have to go along without him. Again, thank you for
appearing before the Subcommittee today.
Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses,
or additional materials for the record. Without objection, and
without Mr. Grothman, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:56 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
All materials submitted for the record by the Members of
the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforce-
ment can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=118767.
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