    [House Hearing, 119 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                            THE IMPACTS OF TEMPORARY
                                PROTECTED STATUS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

        SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                          WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 2025

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 119-47

                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

                   [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
                                  ______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    62-402                    WASHINGTON : 2026

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                            JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

    DARRELL ISSA, California             JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland, Ranking
    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Member
    TOM McCLINTOCK, California           JERROLD NADLER, New York
    THOMAS P. TIFFANY, Wisconsin         ZOE LOFGREN, California
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
    CHIP ROY, Texas                      HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
    SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin              Georgia
    BEN CLINE, Virginia                  ERIC SWALWELL, California
    LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  TED LIEU, California
    JEFFERSON VAN DREW, New Jersey       PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
    TROY E. NEHLS, Texas                 J. LUIS CORREA, California
    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
    KEVIN KILEY, California              JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
    HARRIET M. HAGEMAN, Wyoming          LUCY McBATH, Georgia
    LAUREL M. LEE, Florida               DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
    WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   BECCA BALINT, Vermont
    RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
    GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
    BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
    MARK HARRIS, North Carolina          DANIEL S. GOLDMAN, New York
    ROBERT F. ONDER, Jr., Missouri       JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
    DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
    BRANDON GILL, Texas
    MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington
                                     ------

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
                                AND ENFORCEMENT

                       TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair

    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington,
    TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Ranking Member
    CHIP ROY, Texas                      JERROLD NADLER, New York
    JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            J. LUIS CORREA, California
    TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH K. ROSS, North Carolina
    WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   JESUS G. ``CHUY'' GARCIA, Illinois
    RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          JASMINE CROCKETT, Texas
    GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin            ZOE LOFGREN, California
    BRAD KNOTT, North Carolina           STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
    ROBERT F. ONDER, Missouri            Vacant
    DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas                Vacant
    BRANDON GILL, Texas                  Vacant

                   CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
                    ARTHUR EWENCZYK, Minority Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                          Wednesday, December 17, 2025
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page

    The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
      Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
      of California..................................................     1
    The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee
      on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the
      State of Washington............................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    James Rogers, Senior Counsel, America First Legal Foundation
      Oral Testimony.................................................     5
      Prepared Testimony.............................................     8
    George Fishman, Senior Legal Fellow, Center for Immigration
      Studies
      Oral Testimony.................................................    19
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    21
    James A. Williams, Jr., General President, International Union of
      Painters and Allied Trades
      Oral Testimony.................................................    43
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    45
    Larry Celaschi, Councilman, Borough of Charleroi
      Oral Testimony.................................................    49
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    51

              LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

    All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
      Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed
      below..........................................................    78

    Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
      Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
      and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
        A letter to the Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration
            Integrity, Security, and Enforcement, from Kristin
            Hopkins, President, Charleroi Borough Council, Dec. 17,
            2025
        A letter to the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of
            the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
            Enforcement from the State of Washington, from Reverend
            Sharon Woomer, Pastor, Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025
        A letter to the Members of the Subcommittee on Immigration
            Integrity, Security, and Enforcement, from Taris Alfred
            Vrcek, a resident in Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025
        A letter to the Representatives of the Committee on the
            Judiciary, from Tim Maddocks, Faculty Member at the
            University of Pittsburgh, Dec. 17, 2025
        An article entitled, ``Temporary Protected Status protects
            families while also boosting the U.S. economy,'' Feb.
            2024, fwd.us
        An article entitled, ``A Pennsylvania town is thriving with
            Haitian immigrants--and is the latest target of
            Republican hate,'' Oct. 20, 2024, The Guardian
        An article entitled, ``How Trump warped and weaponized a
            small Pennsylvania town's immigration story,'' Oct. 9,
            2024, The Washington Post
        An article entitled, ``FACTS: Immigrants Aren't Stealing Your
            Jobs or Lowering Wages,'' Jan. 10, 2025, American
            Business Immigration Coalition (ABIC)
    A message from Navy J. Ellis, Mayor Elect, Councilwoman Elect,
      Charleroi Borough, Dec. 17, 2025, submitted by the Honorable
      Deborah K. Ross, a Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration
      Integrity, Security, and Enforcementa North Carolina, for the
      record

                            THE IMPACTS OF TEMPORARY
                                PROTECTED STATUS

                                  ----------

                          Wednesday, December 17, 2025

                            House of Representatives

                Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,

                                and Enforcement

                           Committee on the Judiciary

                                 Washington, DC

        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., in Room
    2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Tom McClintock
    [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
        Members present: Representatives McClintock, Biggs,
    Tiffany, Roy, Van Drew, Hunt, Grothman, Knott, Onder, Gill,
    Jayapal, Scanlon, Ross, Garcia, Crockett, and Lofgren.
        Mr. McClintock. The Subcommittee will come to order.
    Without objection the Chair is authorized to declare a recess
    at any time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on
    Temporary Protected Status.
        I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. The
    Subcommittee meets today to consider the Temporary Protected
    Status Program, its abuse by the Biden Administration, its
    effect on American communities, and what reforms are required
    to prevent such abuse in the future. Our Nation has just
    suffered the largest illegal mass migration in history.
        Aided abetted and encouraged by the Biden Administration
    and its allies in Congress. This Subcommittee has documented
    the cost to our country. Hospitals overrun with illegals
    demanding care, food pantries, and homeless shelters
    overwhelmed, classrooms packed with non-English speaking
    students, rampant child sex, and labor trafficking.
        Hundreds of thousands of Americans dead from fentanyl
    overdoses, suppressed wages for working families, 160 billion
    dollars in welfare costs to support this population. Worst of
    all, the introduction of the most violent criminal gangs and
    cartels in the world into our communities. President Trump
    reversed these ruinous policies by simply enforcing our
    existing immigration laws.
        Illegal border crossings immediately plunged more than 95
    percent. The largest illegal mass migration in history is now
    followed by the largest legal deportation in history, although
    it is being obstructed by vicious and often violent street mobs
    incited and encouraged by some of our Democratic colleagues.
        One aspect of this nightmare was the abuse of the so called
    Temporary Protected Status Program under the Biden
    Administration that proved Ronald Reagan's maxim that there is
    nothing more permanent on this earth than a temporary
    government program. TPS was intended to provide temporary
    residency to aliens who were legally in our country when a
    disaster befell their own.
        An earthquake, a hurricane, and a civil war that
    temporarily prevented their safe return. It was never intended
    to encourage illegal entry by aliens fleeing in such
    conditions. Its nature is in the first word to describe it is
    ``temporary.'' The law gives the administration broad latitude
    not only to extend such Temporary Protected Status when
    circumstances required, but also to withdraw that status when
    those circumstances change.
        Along the way Temporary Protected Status became Permanent
    Protected Status. For example, such status was extended to
    citizens in El Salvador after a series of earthquakes in 2001
    and never withdrawn. It was extended to citizens of Honduras
    after Hurricane Mitch struck that country in 1998 and never
    withdrawn. Even the Democratic witness admits that many TPS
    beneficiaries have been here ten or even 20 years.
        Worst, most of the TPS beneficiaries under Biden did not
    enter the country legally only to find themselves stranded by
    unfortunate events, but rather they entered the country
    illegally to claim such status or were rewarded for their
    illegal entry by attaining such status. These abuses followed
    the TPS Program to balloon from roughly 410,000 when Biden took
    office, to nearly 1.5 million on the day that he left office.
        As the number of aliens with TPS skyrocketed, American
    communities such as Logansport, Indiana, Springfield, Ohio, and
    Charleroi, Pennsylvania, cried out for help. These American
    communities struggled as large influxes of these foreign
    nationals arrived in their neighborhoods, most of whom had
    entered the country illegally.
        These aliens compete with Americans for housing, medical
    care, education, emergency services, law enforcement services,
    and other social services. New burdens on communities already
    strained to the breaking point include linguistic and cultural
    barriers in schools, forcing American students to learn at the
    pace of those students who are still learning English.
        Alarming numbers of car crashes involving foreign nationals
    who in many cases do not carry the requisite insurance so that
    the victim can be made whole. Increased numbers of emergency
    calls, the reintroduction of diseases previously eradicated
    from the United States, and much more. We will hear from one of
    those communities in a few minutes.
        The Trump Administration has heeded the cries of the
    American people. Since taking office, the President has moved
    to withdraw TPS status for foreign nationals whose conditions
    no longer warrant such status. In other cases, the Trump
    Administration has determined that these TPS designations are
    simply not in our country's national interest.
        These findings have terminated designations in all but five
    of the 17 countries previously designated. The purpose of
    today's hearing is to hear the real-world impact of these
    abuses on American towns, and to identify what changes need to
    be made to ensure that no future President can abuse this
    program as did Joe Biden. I look forward to hearing from our
    witnesses.
        I now yield to the Ranking Member for her opening
    statement.
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for holding this hearing
    on an issue that goes to the core of who we are as a country,
    Temporary Protected Status, or TPS. I want to recognize that we
    have a number of people here in the room who hold Temporary
    Protected Status, I want to welcome you all to this hearing, I
    am glad you are here, I am glad you are with us.
        This program, established by Congress in 1990, provides
    people who are already in the United States a safe haven when
    their home countries are devastated by armed conflict, natural
    disaster, or other extraordinary conditions. TPS is built on
    the simple idea that we as a country should not force people
    back to deadly and life-threatening conditions.
        This is a principle that has guided both Republican and
    Democratic Administrations for years. Today, the Trump
    Administration is dismantling this longstanding commitment.
    They are ending TPS for countries where conditions are still
    extraordinarily dangerous, countries like Haiti, Venezuela, and
    South Sudan.
        All of which the Department of State currently lists under
    level four, do not travel advisories because of the dangerous
    and unstable conditions there. Let us be honest about what this
    means, when TPS is terminated for these countries, we are
    forcing people to return to real and imminent harm.
        The actions by Secretary Noem will lead to people's deaths,
    that goes against everything that this country is supposed to
    stand for, as well as our own laws, and I am sad to see us go
    down this path, but I can't say that I am surprised. This is
    all part of this administration's mass deportation agenda,
    which is wreaking havoc on this country.
        Heavily armed, masked men are terrorizing communities all
    across America under the guise of immigration enforcement. They
    are snatching people of all immigration statuses on the street
    and refusing to even identify themselves. Even U.S. citizens
    have not been spared. There are too many reports of U.S.
    citizens being wrongfully detained, and often times with
    violent force.
        Just last week a U.S. citizen in Minnesota was tackled by a
    masked agent running full speed. He was put in a choke hold and
    dragged into the agent's vehicle, despite repeatedly telling
    the agents that he was a U.S. citizen, and that he had proof of
    citizenship on his phone, he was held for several hours and
    driven to a facility miles away before finally being released
    and told to walk back in the snow.
        This comes as Homeland Security Investigations has said in
    court filings that the Trump Administrations does not consider
    REAL IDs to be reliable proof of lawful status. I am not sure
    how any of us anywhere in the country are supposed to feel safe
    from being kidnaped and disappeared off the streets. The Trump
    Administration's relentless attack on TPS is only making things
    worse.
        TPS recipients aren't outsiders in our communities, they
    live in our neighborhoods, raise their families here, and help
    keep local economies running. Nearly 600,000 U.S. citizens,
    including more than 260,000 U.S. citizen children live in
    households with TPS recipients. TPS has also allowed hundreds
    of thousands of people to work legally, often in industries
    that are already experiencing severe labor shortages.
        These are folks working in construction, hospitality, food
    processing, manufacturing, the kinds of jobs that keep our
    economy running, and that many businesses are struggling to
    fill. They pay taxes, support local businesses, and contribute
    billions of dollars to our economy every single year.
        In all, TPS holders contribute about 21 billion dollars
    annually to the U.S. economy, and they pay 5.2 billion dollars
    in combined Federal, payroll, State, and local taxes. They also
    contribute about 690 million dollars annually to Social
    Security. Many TPS holders have lived in the United States for
    years, often decades, living in 12-18 month renewal increments.
        As such, they are among the most frequently vetted
    immigrants in the country. They have followed our laws, paid
    their taxes, and demonstrated their commitment to this country.
    Instead of stripping them of legal status and sending them back
    to dangerous conditions, we should be providing them with a
    path to long term stability. This is why when Democrats were in
    the Majority, we passed H.R. 6, the American Dream and Promise
    Act on a bipartisan basis I might add, in the 116th and 117th
    Congress.
        That legislation would have provided a path to citizenship
    for individuals who currently had or were eligible for TPS. The
    Trump Administration loves to claim that it is only going after
    the quote ``Worst of the worst.'' We know that this is a lie.
    Many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle used to
    say that they love legal immigration.
        They have been silent as this administration has done
    everything it can to end legal immigration, including
    decimating TPS, and throwing the lawful status of over a
    million people into limbo. We should be using our time to work
    toward an immigration system that is modernized, fair, and in
    line with the needs of our families and our economy.
        Attacking legal immigration is not just morally wrong, it
    actually makes no sense. Thank you, and I look forward to
    hearing from our witnesses.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] The gentlelady yields back. Without
    objection, all other opening statements will be included in the
    record.
        We will now introduce today's witnesses. We begin with Mr.
    James Rogers, who is Senior Counsel at America First Legal
    Foundation, where he litigates in a number of areas including
    border security, election integrity, parental rights, and
    administrative and constitutional law.
        Before joining America First Legal he served as a Senior
    Litigation Counsel at the Solicitor General's Office of the
    Arizona Attorney General's Office, as a foreign service officer
    at the U.S. Department of State, and as a commercial litigation
    partner at Osborn Maledon. Mr. Rogers earned his JD from
    Harvard Law School, and an LLM in international law from the
    University of Cambridge, and a BA with honors from Brigham
    Young University.
        Mr. George Fishman is a Senior Legal Fellow at the Center
    for Immigration Studies. During the first Trump Administration,
    Mr. Fishman served as Deputy General Counsel for the Department
    of Homeland Security, and acting Chief Counsel for U.S.
    Citizenship and Immigration Services. Prior to that Mr. Fishman
    served for two decades as the Republican Chief Counsel for this
    Subcommittee, shepherding through Congress countless
    conservative immigration related pieces of legislation.
        He earned a JD from the University of Michigan Law School,
    and a BA in economics and philosophy from the University of
    Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Mr. Fishman, welcome back to the
    Committee. Mr. James Williams has been the General President of
    the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades since
    2021. Mr. Williams has served in various positions within the
    organization, including leadership roles, since beginning his
    career with the union in 1998.
        Mr. Larry Celaschi--did I say that right, sir? Has served
    as Councilman for the Borough of Charleroi, Pennsylvania, for
    more--did I say that right, Charleroi? Charleroi, Pennsylvania,
    for more than a decade. In addition to his public service, Mr.
    Celaschi worked for 20 years as an insurance agent before
    retiring in 2024.
        He is also a college sports announcer, a professional
    musician, what is your instrument? Drummer, OK, very good, and
    a DJ. Mr. Celaschi attended California University of
    Pennsylvania, where he earned a BA in economics. We welcome our
    witnesses, and we thank each of you for joining us today. I
    will begin by swearing you in.
        Would you please rise and raise your right hand? Do each of
    you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony
    you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your
    knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Let the
    record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the
    affirmative, you may be seated, thank you.
        I want you to know that your written testimony has been
    entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask
    that you summarize your testimony in five minutes. When you are
    nearing that five minutes, when ten or 15 seconds are left, you
    are going to hear this, and then when you are done you are
    going to hear this.
        Then at some point we will--I don't know what we will do
    next, but would ask you to keep it to the 5-minutes if you can,
    and we encourage you very much. Also, remind you when it is
    your turn, please turn on your microphones so we can all hear
    you. Thank you.
        We will begin now with Mr. Rogers for five minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF JAMES ROGERS

        Mr. Rogers. Mr. Chair, Ranking Member Jayapal, and the
    Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to
    testify. I have been an attorney since 2009, and a significant
    part of my practice for years has been immigration law and
    border security. I also bring six years' experience as a
    foreign service officer, including two years as a consular
    officer conducting visa interviews, and two years as an
    attorney advisor in the State Department's legal office.
        TPS was supposed to be a limited humanitarian program for
    foreign nationals facing armed conflict, natural disasters, or
    extraordinary emergencies. That humanitarian intent has been
    twisted into permanent amnesty. The program fails at every
    measure of its original purpose. It is not temporary, Somalia
    has held TPS since 1991, longer than some sitting Members of
    Congress have been alive.
        It is not protective, TPS recipients remain decades after
    the triggering events fade. It is not humanitarian, the
    evidence shows economic motivations dominate amongst
    beneficiaries, with TPS serving as cover for economic
    migration. It is not limited; entire countries receive blanket
    designations despite localized crises.
        It is not lawfully administered, Congress explicitly barred
    judicial review of TPS determinations, yet courts intervene
    repeatedly to block lawful terminations. It is not fiscally
    responsible, TPS recipients like illegal aliens generally are
    predominantly low skilled, and impose net costs on tax payers.
        Now, let me unpack some of those points a little more.
    First, TPS is a backdoor amnesty mechanism. TPS country
    designations can only last up to 18 months, after which DHS
    must decide to extend or terminate. DHS has invented, with no
    statutory basis, a practice of redesignation.
        Whereby it extends eligibility to allow aliens who entered
    after the original crisis. For Somalia the cutoff moved from
    1991-2012, granting amnesty to 21 years' worth of illegal
    entrants. Haiti's cutoff extended from 2010-2023. This creates
    direct incentives for illegal immigration.
        After Venezuela received TPS in 2021, and was redesignated
    in 2023, encounters with Venezuelan nationals topped 300,000
    each in fiscal years 2023-2024. Since Haiti's 2021
    redesignation, CBP encountered roughly half a million Haitians
    illegally crossing our borders. Each redesignation signals that
    illegal entry will be eventually rewarded.
        UCLA research shows TPS holders average 20 years of
    residence, with two-thirds having children here. They are not
    temporary visitors, but permanent settlers.
        Second, TPS designations are pretextual and over broad. TPS
    requires that aliens cannot safely return to their home country
    because of war, natural disaster, or extraordinary and
    temporary conditions.
        Yet, at the same time the State Department has continued to
    issue temporary visas to citizens of TPS countries. That is
    incoherent. Nonimmigrant visa applicants must prove intent to
    return home. If conditions truly prevent safe return, how can
    consular officers credibly issue visas? Either conditions are
    not uniformly dangerous, undermining TPS' rationale, or State
    Department consular officers are illegally issuing visas.
        Designations are also geographically overbroad. El Salvador
    received TPS for localized earthquakes, yet the designation
    covered all Salvadorans. The same happened with Haiti's
    earthquake at Port-au-Prince. The statute permits designating
    part of a foreign State, but DHS never uses that authority,
    resulting in blanket coverage far exceeding humanitarian need.
        Third, judges have usurped executive authority. Congress
    was clear, the statute specifically says there is no judicial
    review, that is a quote, ``No judicial review'' of the
    secretary's TPS designations or terminations. Courts have
    repeatedly blocked Trump Administration TPS terminations,
    including for Haiti, Honduras, Nepal, Nicaragua, and Venezuela.
        Demanding extraordinary justification, and scrutinizing
    terminations for more strictly than extensions. This one way
    ratchet means that TPS only grows, never contracts.
        Fourth, TPS imposes net fiscal costs. TPS recipients like
    illegal immigrants generally are predominantly low skilled.
    Research shows the average illegal immigrant creates a lifetime
    net fiscal drain of 87,000-110,000 per person even accounting
    for taxes paid.
        With 1.3 million TPS recipients, that represents 113-143
    billion dollars in total net costs. In conclusion, TPS
    functions as permanent amnesty that undermines the rule of law,
    burdens taxpayers, and signals worldwide that illegal entry
    pays. At minimum Congress should restrict eligibility to
    legally admitted aliens.
        Eliminate the catch all extraordinary conditions category,
    prohibit redesignations, require that designations be
    geographically limited, set firm time limits, and prevent
    courts from blocking lawful terminations. Better yet, abolish
    TPS entirely. Unless reformed or eliminated, TPS will continue
    undercutting immigration law, and burdening Americans while
    providing minimal genuine humanitarian protection. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Rogers follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fishman
    for his five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF GEORGE FISHMAN

        Mr. Fishman. Mr. Biggs, Ranking Member Jayapal, I am
    honored to have the opportunity to testify before you, the
    Members of the Subcommittee. Who said you can never go home
    again? I began working for the Subcommittee in 1995, became
    Chief Republican Counsel in 1998, and served in that capacity
    until 2018.
        While on the Committee I worked under four extraordinary
    Chairs, and I worked with extraordinary colleagues, none more
    so than Andrea Loving. As the Ninth Circuit has explained
    beginning in 1980, Congress introduced a series of bills to
    address its concerns with extended voluntary departure.
        To provide a more formal and orderly mechanism for group
    based grants of humanitarian protection, eventually culminating
    in the 1990 enactment of Temporary Protected Status. Extended
    voluntary departure is blanket immigration relief for all
    members of a national group. The former Chair of this
    Subcommittee, Romano Mazzoli, in 1988 described it as having
    only the shakiest of legislative foundations without any
    statutory criteria.
        Congress created TPS for three reasons.
        First, to provide immigration relief to many thousands of
    illegal aliens from El Salvador.
        Second, in the words of Judiciary Committee Ranking Member,
    Ranking Republican at the time, Hamilton Fish, because there
    was then no clear statutory relief available providing
    temporary protection for reasons unrelated to persecution.
        Third, because as Subcommittee Chair at the time Bruce
    Morrison said,

            The Executive Branch had created EVD out of whole cloth, and
            there ought to be a statutory structure.

    At a 1999 hearing of this Subcommittee on this subject, Chair
    Lamar Smith said,

            The question is not whether TPS should be granted, in many
            instances it should be. The question is whether it is really
            temporary, and to what extent TPS invites fraud.

        That is the lens through which I view TPS. Congressional
    advocates at the time were careful to emphasize that TPS would
    be (1) convey a purely temporary status, and (2) require
    beneficiaries to leave once their country's designation was
    terminated. House Democrat Whip William Gray said,

            We are not asking that they be allowed to live indefinitely in
            the country.

    Chair Mazzoli said,

            The aliens must return home unless TPS status is extended.

            That beneficiaries will be identified so that when they can
            safely return home, we can enforce the laws with respect to
            them.

    Representative Joe Moakley said,

            I have heard it said that if we enact TPS, the people covered
            will stay here forever.

        Assured people, assured members that I am certain that many
    if not most dream of the day that they can return to the land
    where they were born, and that a substantial majority will
    return voluntarily, and this bill provides a mechanism to
    ensure this result. In fact, the Judiciary Committee report
    criticized EVD in contrast to Temporary Protected Status,
    because quote,

            INS cannot effectuate the deportation of aliens whose EVD
            status has expired.

    At the Subcommittee's 1999 hearing, my colleague Mark Krikorian
    testified that,

            TPS would simply be a lie if it were used as a backdoor to
            permanent immigration.

    Predicted that few if any Hondurans or Nicaraguans currently
    covered by TPS will ever depart voluntarily or be removed.
        These fears were certainly prescient. Last year the Pew
    Research Center concluded that some TPS beneficiaries have
    lived in the U.S. for two decades or more. In fact, under the
    law, periodically following a TPS designation, the DHS shall
    determine whether the conditions for such designation continue
    to be met.
        If it determines that a country no longer continues to meet
    the conditions for designation, the DHS shall terminate the
    designation. Otherwise, thr DHS shall extend the designation.
    The Biden Administration's extension of El Salvador's
    designation earlier this year demonstrates why a country can
    remain designated for so long.
        The DHS did not believe that present day adverse conditions
    have to bear any relationship to the original qualifying event
    such as a quarter century old earthquake. The DHS did believe
    that nonoptimal climactic conditions were sufficient even with
    no expectation of change in anyone's lifetime.
        In fact, Leon Rodriguez, the Obama Administration's USCIS
    director said that,

            Intervening factors were relevant regardless of whether they
            had any connection to the event that formed the basis for the
            original designation.

    TPS needs to be reformed, and I thank you for the privilege of
    testifying.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Fishman follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Fishman, thank you. The Chair now
    recognizes Mr. Williams for his five-minute testimony.

                    STATEMENT OF JIMMY WILLIAMS, Jr.

        Mr. Williams. Good afternoon, Mr. Biggs, and Ranking Member
    Jayapal. As stated, my name is Jimmy Williams, I serve as the
    General President of the International Union of Painters and
    Allied Trades. I look forward to being able to talk about the
    positive impact that TPS recipients have had both in our
    industry, in our union, and in our communities.
        Our union is made up of over 140,000 men and women across
    the United States and Canada, who work largely in the finishing
    trades industries. I myself am a construction worker by trade,
    and am a fourth-generation member of my union, a union that was
    founded by immigrant workers, and our union has always fought
    hard to make sure that this body looks to find a humane and
    dignifying path for immigrant workers and the contributions
    that they have made on our country.
        I look forward to talking about the positive impacts that
    TPS workers have had on our union for well over 30 years. The
    IUPAT has been at the forefront of fighting for true,
    comprehensive immigration reform, and we will continue to fight
    for true, comprehensive immigration reform. As was stated by
    Ranking Member Jayapal, TPS recipients are the most screened
    group of immigrants that come to our country.
        Every 18 months have to submit to background checks, have
    to pay fees to this country. Within our union, those that are
    members of our union pay my salary to represent them like I am
    here today, and pay your salary in the form of taxes. The
    contributions that have been made by TPS recipients go well
    beyond just what they do in the workplace, in their communities
    as well.
        As was stated, they are families, they fought wars, and
    they have supported this country at every single level. We owe
    them the respect that they deserve, and our union will continue
    to fight for them. Within our union we have had numerous,
    numerous complaints already by our employers, our partners that
    are worried about where the workforce of tomorrow is going to
    be.
        In the construction industry we are experiencing severe
    workforce shortages. We are seeing long term investments that
    have been made into TPS recipients in the form of workforce
    training that our union alone spends over 125 million dollars a
    year to train the highest skilled workforce known to man.
        When we talk about immigrant workers as low skilled, it can
    become offensive, because I know the investment that we have
    made. When you think about what this country is doing to TPS
    recipients by pulling the rug out while they are contributing
    to this society, it only will drive people further into the
    shadows.
        Our country cannot look at this issue as just an
    immigration issue. It is also a labor law issue. I can tell you
    I served 14 years as my union's organizing director, and I have
    spoken to the worst of the worst cases of worker
    misclassification and wage theft when allowed to be used,
    because this country has yet to adopt labor law reform in my
    lifetime.
        It is impossible for our membership, and for U.S. born
    construction workers to compete in such a low road economy.
    With the current administration's plan to strip nearly one
    million workers of the protections that allow them to work
    legally in this country, we run the risk of running one more
    million workers into that shadow economy, which has destroyed
    working conditions for our members, and for working people here
    in the United States.
        Look, there is also just what is the country we want to
    live in? Our unions were founded by immigrants, and most unions
    in this country were. At a time where we actually gave workers
    more authority, and more power over their economy, I believe
    that this body's inability to act over the course of the last
    40 years on comprehensive immigration reform is what has led us
    to this point.
        It is interesting, you don't hear the President of the
    United States, and you don't hear counterparts talk about the
    employers that have abused the system of immigration now to
    create what is the largest wealth gap since prior to the Great
    Depression. We cannot have a conversation here today about
    immigration reform if we don't also include how we treat
    workers in this country. I thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Williams follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Celaschi
    for your five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF LARRY CELASCHI

        Mr. Celaschi. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member,
    and the Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity
    to appear before you today. My name is Larry Celaschi, I am a
    resident and elected Councilman of the Borough of Charleroi,
    Pennsylvania, a small former mill and glass town of
    approximately 4,000 residents in Washington County.
        I am not appearing before you as someone chasing talking
    points, as an academic, or as a policy consultant. I am here as
    a local elected official, who has had to look residents in the
    eye, and explain why their town no longer feels safe, stable,
    or familiar, and why decisions made afar from Charleroi have
    imposed consequences our community never agreed to accept.
        Charleroi did not volunteer to become a test case for
    Federal immigration policy. We were not consulted, we were not
    asked about capacity, and we were not equipped for what was
    imposed on us. Our borough has been repeatedly referenced in
    national media and political discussions as an example of how
    current immigration policy plays out in real American
    communities.
        I am here to explain what that means on the ground.
    Charleroi is less than a mile long from its first traffic light
    to its last. Under the Biden Administration's approach to
    immigration enforcement and refugee placement, our borough
    absorbed an estimated 2,000-3,000 migrants in a very short
    period of time. That represents a population increase of
    approximately 50-75 percent.
        No communities large or small can observe that level of
    growth overnight without serious consequences. Charleroi has
    limited tax base, aging housing stock, and leaning on municipal
    services by necessity, not choice. Our police department is
    small, our fire department is volunteer, our ambulance service
    is nonprofit, and operates on margins of financial viability.
        We are not a sanctuary city, a border community, or a major
    metropolitan area with layered social service infrastructure,
    yet we were treated as if we were. Federal decisions with local
    consequences. The placement of large numbers of migrants in
    Charleroi was not initiated by our borough council, we were not
    asked if we had the housing capacity, public safety resources,
    school support, or healthcare infrastructure to absorb this
    population.
        Federal agencies and nongovernmental organizations placed
    individuals into our housing, schools, and neighborhoods
    without providing proportional investments in policing,
    emergency medical services, housing inspections, translation
    services, healthcare capacity, or infrastructure. The outcome
    was predictable and preventable.
        Strain on public safety and municipal services, Charleroi's
    police department, volunteer fire department, ambulance
    service, and code enforcement have all experienced a
    significant increase in service calls. Many of these calls
    involve language barriers, overcrowded housing conditions, and
    unfamiliarity with local laws and traffic regulations.
        Charleroi does not have a paid, dedicated interpreted or
    translation service. Our first responders now spend
    significantly more time on each call, stretching limited
    resources, and increasing response times for everyone in the
    community. Our ambulance service is currently caring for more
    than 250,000 dollars in uncollect-ible debt tied to the migrant
    emergency calls.
        For a small, nonprofit service, this level of uncompensated
    care is unsustainable, and places the entire community at risk.
    Our volunteer fire department is feeling the brunt of the
    financial stress the immigrant community has placed on their
    shoestring budget. Our code enforcement office has been
    overwhelmed by unsafe and overcrowded rental properties, some
    housing double or triple their intended occupancies.
        These conditions pose serious risks to occupants,
    neighboring residents, and first responders. Let me be clear,
    the individuals arriving in Charleroi are human beings, but the
    local residents are human beings as well, and they are paying,
    tax paying American citizens who have done nothing wrong, and
    who are bearing the consequences of the Biden Administration
    immigration policies.
        The photographs and documentation I submitted are not
    exaggerated, and it is certainly not a joke. It makes our
    community very angry that our town has experienced frequent car
    crashes caused by migrant drivers. This has wreaked havoc on
    the not-at-fault parties who had to pay the price. Vehicles
    driven by unlicensed, uninsured, and non-English speaking
    drivers are involved in daily collisions on narrow residential
    streets, cars overturning, plowing into homes, businesses, and
    destroying personal property.
        Even the current and former Mayor's own property has been
    damaged under these circumstances. This is reality in
    Charleroi, folks, where the posted speed limit is 25 miles an
    hour or less. Families are afraid in their own neighborhoods
    and seniors are frightened to walk outside. This is not just
    about traffic safety; Charleroi has suffered severe
    reputational and legal harm.
        The United States Justice Department successfully
    prosecuted a Charleroi staffing agency owner, sentencing him to
    prison, and awarded over 3.6 million in restitution for
    harboring illegal aliens, and failing to pay employment taxes.
    There has been a targeted killing of an immigrant tied to the
    immigrant van agencies. Another immigrant death is currently
    under investigation by the Washington County District
    Attorney's Office.
        These events have placed a national spotlight on a small
    borough that lacks the resources, staffing, and infrastructure
    to manage the fallout. Request, as a resident and Councilman of
    the Borough of Charleroi, I respectfully urge Congress to
    require mandatory consultation with local governments before
    migrant or refugee placements occur. Limited placements to
    levels communities can realistically--
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Celaschi follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, he is over a minute of time, and
    you were gaveling down others, so I would appreciate it if you
    would stop the witness.
        Mr. Celaschi. My apologies.
        Mr. Biggs. Mr. Celaschi, thank you, we have your full
    written testimony here. Appreciate it, thank you.
        The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
    Tiffany.
        Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Celaschi, I will
    give you 30 seconds of my time to conclude your remarks. Go
    ahead.
        Mr. Celaschi. Again, on request, limit placements to a
    level communities can realistically support based on housing,
    public safety, school, and healthcare capacity. Provide direct,
    flexible funding to municipalities absorbing migrant
    populations so local taxpayers are not left carrying the
    burden. Increased transparency, accountability, and oversight
    of nonprofit organizations involved in placement decisions.
        Reaffirm that immigration policy must balance humanitarian
    objectives with the safety, stability, and well-being of
    American communities. Charleroi is not anti-immigrant, I
    support legal immigration and the American dream pursued
    through lawful means. However, what was imposed on our borough
    has pushed public services to the breaking point and
    fundamentally altered our community without its consent.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Celaschi, I gave you 30 seconds, you had
    45 seconds.
        Mr. Celaschi. Thank you.
        Mr. Tiffany. Let me ask some questions here. Describe the
    role of the agencies and the NGOs, the agencies of the Federal
    Government, the NGOs, describe their role in how they brought
    these people into your community.
        Mr. Celaschi. That is the million-dollar question, the only
    thing it comes back to is the NGOs.
        Mr. Tiffany. When did it start?
        Mr. Celaschi. Roughly about 2022 we saw an influx.
        Mr. Tiffany. You are saying it is primarily NGOs that were
    driving these people in, is that correct?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. Tiffany. Should locals have a say in this happening?
        Mr. Celaschi. Absolutely.
        Mr. Tiffany. I just introduced a bill in regard to refugees
    called the CARE Act that would give State and locals a say in
    this, rather than the Federal Government just taking these
    actions and FYI. Has this led to a housing shortage in your
    community?
        Mr. Celaschi. It has led to long time Charleroi residents
    selling their homes and leaving. What used to be a heavily home
    ownership to landlord tenant, 75 to 25, 64, has reversed that
    trend. It is now heavy on landlord tenant to home ownership,
    and a lot of those landlord tenants are immigrant related.
        Mr. Tiffany. It has decreased home ownership in your
    community?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. Tiffany. Which has always been a bedrock of the
    American dream, right?
        Mr. Celaschi. You are absolutely right.
        Mr. Tiffany. To be able to own your own home. Thank you
    very much for that.
        Mr. Celaschi. Thank you.
        Mr. Tiffany. Did I hear correctly, Mr. Fishman, that
    climate change is used as a justification not to return people
    to their home countries, did I hear that right?
        Mr. Fishman. Not only is it used--
        Mr. Tiffany. Turn your mike on.
        Mr. Fishman. Sorry about that. Not only is it used, it is
    used for climate change, having absolutely nothing to do with
    the event that precipitated TPS in the first place, it's not
    much rainfall, well that could exist for thousands of years,
    that is not temporary.
        Mr. Tiffany. Is an earthquake climate change? Are
    earthquakes caused by climate change?
        Mr. Fishman. I think geological are also packed in there,
    geological conditions.
        Mr. Tiffany. OK. Does the program as it is currently setup,
    and how it has been for the last few decades, does it lead to
    fraud in the immigration system?
        Mr. Fishman. I think it very likely does lead to fraud,
    especially as Mr. Rogers was talking about, people receiving
    TPS benefits who came here well after the initial designation,
    in many cases by giving fraudulent information about when they
    came to the United States.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Rogers, same question.
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, it absolutely could lead to fraud. Like
    Mr. Fishman said, ``the form just asks for a date for when you
    arrived, and they can fill in any date they want.''
        Mr. Tiffany. What types of fraud would you see with
    something--what types of fraud have you seen as a result of
    this?
        Mr. Rogers. Well personally as a Consular Officer, I never
    dealt with TPS beneficiaries. The kind of fraud you would see
    is that kind of thing--falsification of dates. The whole point
    of TPS is it is supposed to be temporary. When you have
    permanent immigrants coming there is lots of vetting that just
    doesn't happen that is required for a permanent immigrant, and
    that is one of the problems, this has become a program for
    permanent immigration that doesn't do all that vetting.
        Mr. Tiffany. I just want to respond in regard to Mr.
    Williams' testimony and thank you for that testimony. You
    referred to the wealth gap, and you are correct. Part of the
    reason for the wealth gap is that those business owners you
    were referencing have brought in cheap labor, and it has kept
    labor rates down as a result of bringing cheap labor in.
        When you have 10 million people that came in the last four
    years, that is going to drive wages down. You commented about
    the inability to act by Congress. This body acted last session
    to put in place a strong immigration reform, we did do that.
        I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields. The Chair recognizes the
    Ranking Member, Ms. Jayapal.
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned,
    Temporary Protected Status is a bipartisan program, and it
    allows individuals from countries facing war, unrest, and
    natural disaster to remain in the United States until it is
    safe for them to return to their home countries. These are
    individuals, as Mr. Williams testified to, with work
    authorization.
        Those who have put down roots in their communities,
    followed the legal processes that are available to them. These
    are not the worst of the worst that Trump claimed he would go
    after, and yet this administration is well on its way to
    stripping the lawful status of over one million people by early
    next year. Mr. Williams, very powerful testimony, thank you.
        TPS recipients work in a variety of sectors experiencing
    workforce shortages, including childcare, and construction. As
    the President of the International Union of Painters and Allied
    Trades, can you discuss the impact that the TPS terminations
    are having on the work sites where your union members work, and
    on the broader economy?
        Mr. Williams. For sure, and I would also add hospitality
    too--
        Ms. Jayapal. Hospitality as well.
        Mr. Williams. It is a very important industry that could
    see unprecedented worker shortages. In speaking to our members
    on the regular, and listen, our members are just like the rest
    of this country, very divided around immigration, let us not
    kid ourselves. Our members never looked at those brothers and
    sisters that they worked side by side with in some very
    dangerous, dangerous working conditions as people that were
    considered here unlawfully.
        The safety issues that can take place, when you remove that
    many workers that have been trained, and highly skilled to work
    on things like painting bridges, hanging off the side of
    buildings, you rely on one another. In our industry you already
    are seeing the fear over who are you going to work with side by
    side that you can trust?
        The person you work with for the last 15 years, or somebody
    brand new in the industry? There is definite fear both among
    our employers and our members about what is going to happen to
    our workers going forward.
        Ms. Jayapal. I appreciated your challenging the notion that
    these are low-skilled workers, because you have invested a lot
    of money into training people, and they bring extremely
    valuable skills to the job. I also want to talk about the
    effect that the Trump Administration's indiscriminate
    immigration enforcement is having on your union members. Do
    people feel safe coming into work?
        Mr. Williams. No. We have had horror story after horror
    story of members of ours that have been granted status in this
    country that have been targeted on the job site for removal,
    followed to their homes, and on the way to work being pulled
    over by local law enforcement, and being detained, only not to
    be heard from again. What is going on in our country right now
    should alarm all of us.
        Should really bring back to the middle a conversation on
    how we can deal with immigration as a whole, and coupled with
    fixing our broken labor laws to give workers more power at the
    bargaining table.
        Ms. Jayapal. You have lots of members who are also of
    varied immigration statuses, including U.S. citizens, green
    card holders, others, what do you hear from them about their
    feelings about coming to work, even though they are maybe U.S.
    citizens or green card holders?
        Mr. Williams. Genuine fear. In certain instances, and I can
    tell you this in Southern California and Los Angeles, ever
    since the National Guard has been called up, our members are in
    fear of even gathering in large groups. We have had to cancel
    our union meetings, which have been a tradition of ours for
    over 130 years for fear of being targeted just by the way they
    look.
        Ms. Jayapal. As you know, being on TPS carries a lot of
    uncertainty, you only get your status for 12-18 month renewal
    periods, and in your testimony you mention the importance of
    providing a path to citizenship for TPS holders. Can you
    explain why you as the General President of the International
    Union of Painters and Allied Trades, and the AFL CIO writ large
    think that this is so important for us to do?
        Mr. Williams. Because it would remove this question of
    temporary that seems to be constantly thrown around when these
    workers have contributed to this country way more than they are
    given credit for and have been demonized based on that
    temporary status. They are members of our communities, they are
    parents, and they are longstanding members of our unions.
        Ms. Jayapal. I want to give you a chance to respond to the
    gentleman across the aisle when he said well, the problem with
    wealth, and equality, and the wealth gap is really the fact
    that we have got these workers here, I just wondered if you
    wanted to say anything about that.
        Mr. Williams. It is the biggest misnomer out there. Give
    workers more power at the bargaining table over their own
    economic standing, and you will see that income gap shortens
    for sure. I realize I am out of time.
        Ms. Jayapal. That is good, see, some people pay attention
    to that. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I do have a unanimous consent
    request.
        Mr. Biggs. OK.
        Ms. Jayapal. Since Mr. Celaschi was announced as a witness
    we have been inundated with unsolicited outreach from people
    including the Mayor in Charleroi seeking to correct the
    record--
        Mr. Biggs. What is your request?
        Ms. Jayapal. Explaining that his views are not
    representative of the community. I am asking unanimous consent
    to enter into the record a statement from Kristin Hopkins, the
    President of the Charleroi Borough Council.
        I am asking for unanimous consent to enter into the record
    a statement from Reverend Sharon Woomer, a Pastor in Charleroi,
    explaining how the termination of TPS--
        Mr. Biggs. Without explanation, or else I will read my--
        Ms. Jayapal. --will strain the entire community--
        Mr. Biggs. You either want--someone is going to object, or
    are you going--
        Ms. Jayapal. I ask unanimous consent to enter--
        Mr. Biggs. That is enough.
        Ms. Jayapal. --into the record the statement from Travis
    Vrcek, the Executive Director of McKees Rock Community
    Development Corporation, and a volunteer at a church in
    Charleroi--
        I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the
    statement from Tim Maddocks, a Researcher and Faculty Member at
    the University of Pittsburgh--
        I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
    statement from Nancy J. Ellis, the former Mayor and newly re-
    elected Mayor of the Borough of Charleroi, who said Mr.
    Celaschi's opinions--
        Mr. Biggs. No, no, no.
        Ms. Jayapal. --are biased, and will not get a fair view.
        Mr. Biggs. No, no, I object. If you are going to read it,
    then I am going to object.
        Ms. Jayapal. You gave him an extra minute, so I want to
    make sure--
        Mr. Biggs. I am going to object.
        Ms. Jayapal. That we are being fair about the person who is
    testifying, making sure people understand that he is not
    representative--
        Mr. Biggs. You have put in four, you got to put in four,
    and then you had to read the statement--
        Ms. Jayapal. I didn't read the statement.
        Mr. Biggs. Which you know clearly goes beyond the
    parameters of normal conduct and decorum--
        Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, I didn't read the statement--
        Mr. Biggs. Yes, you did, yes, you did.
        Ms. Jayapal. Let me do it again. I ask unanimous consent to
    enter into the record--
        Mr. Biggs. You are out of order. I recognize the gentleman
    from New Jersey, Mr. Van Drew.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, Mr. Williams, I
    am glad to see you here, I support your union, in fact, I am
    proud I have got a big plaque in one of my offices from the
    painters. I am saying this to you respectfully, there are a lot
    of members that you have that would thoroughly, intensely,
    completely disagree with what you say.
        I hope you meet with all the locals, and all the people
    that are really doing the job, and really working hard. I just
    want you to know that. Temporary Protected Status was created
    with a noble cause in mind, it was meant to reflect America at
    its best, a compassionate, but lawful way for our country to
    assist those going through unavoidable disaster.
        Just as importantly, it was meant to be temporary, that is
    why it has that name. Congress was clear about it from the very
    beginning, TPS was never, ever intended to be permanent. It was
    never meant to be a pathway to permanent residency or
    citizenship. It was never intended to replace asylum, and it
    was never intended to become an open-ended program that expands
    indefinitely without accountability.
        That is just wrong. When TPS is limited in scope, limited
    in time, and tied directly to real conditions on the ground, it
    has worked, and we have seen that. It is America at its best.
    In the late 1990s the United States provided temporary
    protection to hundreds of thousands of Kosivars fleeing a
    brutal contact, they came to America, they were here for a
    limited time, it was tied directly to conditions on the ground.
        When the conflict ended, they went home. That is the way it
    was supposed to work, and it is supposed to look that way. It
    helps people through a genuine emergency, it is the right thing
    to do, but that is not what is happening now. Designations are
    repeatedly extended, entire countries now remain under TPS for
    decades, a long time, long, long after the original crisis has
    passed.
        The message this sends is unmistakable, if you can make it
    here, eventually the rules will allow you to bend, and to stay
    here, and that is wrong. Because so many people have come here
    legally, and worked so hard to be here, and we value
    immigration, and we value those immigrants that came here, and
    we think that they have value always.
        We are misusing the system, and it disrespects those who do
    it the right way. The communities, the councilman talked about
    it, these places were never asked if they wanted to do this,
    they were never consulted, they were never given the resources
    to absorb decisions made in D.C. as usual. Schools are
    overwhelmed, hospitals are strained, police, and first
    responders are stretched thin.
        Who pays it all? The hard-working men and women, many of
    them members of unions that are tired of it. We care about
    people in crisis, and we care also about respecting the law.
    That is why this hearing matters. Mr. Chair, thank you for
    doing this, we appreciate it. It is exactly what I look forward
    to today, discussing this. I am going to ask quick questions
    because I don't want to run out of time.
        Forgive me for this, I wish we had an hour to go through
    this, but we don't, from each member here. I am going to ask a
    question, I am going to ask a yes or a no, and first I am going
    to ask Mr. Fishman, just a yes or a no. Was Temporary Protected
    Status intended by Congress to last for decades?
        Mr. Fishman. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. Thank you. We have TPS designations that have
    lasted more than three decades, is that correct, yes or no?
        Mr. Fishman. At least two--I believe so.
        Mr. Van Drew. Two to three decades.
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Van Drew. Was TPS ever intended to become a permanent
    alternative to asylum, or lawful permanent residency?
        Mr. Fishman. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. Was it intended to be an alternative to legal
    immigration, which we love?
        Mr. Fishman. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. Did Congress envision eligibility dates being
    repeatedly moved forward to cover people who arrived long after
    the original disaster, yes or no?
        Mr. Fishman. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. What practices occurred repeatedly under
    current recent administrations, is that correct?
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Van Drew. If a program lasts for decades and cannot
    realistically end, is it still temporary in any meaningful
    sense, yes or no?
        Mr. Fishman. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. For Mr. Rogers, has TPS as currently
    administered remained limited in scope and duration as the
    statute requires?
        Mr. Rogers. No.
        Mr. Van Drew. The program is no longer operating as
    Congress, this body designed it. Am I correct in saying that?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Van Drew. Do repeated extensions and redesignations of
    TPS create incentives for additional illegal immigration?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Van Drew. TPS is no longer just responding to
    emergencies, it is shaping future migration decisions
    illegally, is that correct?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Van Drew. In practice, once TPS is granted, it really
    results in departure every anymore?
        Mr. Rogers. No, it doesn't result in departure.
        Mr. Van Drew. OK. I don't have any more time, Mr. Chair, I
    yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. [Presiding.] Thank you. Ms. Scanlon?
        Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, interesting
    hearing. Despite this administration's worst rhetoric about
    going after the worst of the worst when it comes to
    immigration, time and again we have seen that is just not true,
    and nowhere is that more clear than what we see happening with
    respect to the TPS program.
        Where this administration has targeted people who have been
    here legally, sometimes for many, many years, and have suddenly
    had their legal status ripped out from under them, all so that
    Stephen Miller can try to meet his deportation quotas. In my
    district, across the country, Venezuelans, Haitians, Afghans,
    and others living here under TPS status have had the rug pulled
    out from under them.
        TPS is a bipartisan program created by Congress which
    allows people from countries facing war, unrest, natural
    disasters to stay in the U.S. until it is safe to return. The
    fact that this administration is basically declaring war on
    Venezuela, and simultaneously saying that Venezuelans can't
    stay here anymore is truly through the looking glass, but we
    are not expecting consistency from this administration.
        Now, Mr. Celaschi raised a number of points, which I am
    from Pennsylvania, although on the other side of Pennsylvania,
    and it just didn't match up with what I know about that area. I
    started pulling up some of the articles that I have read about
    Charleroi, and reviewing the materials that have been entered
    into the record, and the public record indicates a very
    different picture.
        That Charleroi is a place with a large meat packing plant,
    which is not a job that a lot of Americans seem to want to
    apply for anymore, but that they ended up having a large
    Haitian immigration population start working in the meat
    packing plant. As Mr. Celaschi indicated, there was Federal
    enforcement of the fact that there was a contractor there who
    was bringing people in.
        Illegally transporting them, illegally housing them,
    failing to pay wages, failing to do tax reports. Whereas we
    have reams of data, reams of studies showing that immigrants in
    our country are a net economic benefit, we saw something that I
    think Mr. Williams had alluded to, which is that unscrupulous
    employers use people's immigration status to undermine working
    conditions for everyone.
        We saw someone get prosecuted and convicted in Charleroi of
    bringing in immigrant labor. Folks who were not getting paid
    what they were supposed to, which presumably undermined wages
    for folks in the community, and that is exactly what this kind
    of chaos in the immigration system can enable.
        Instead of going after the folks who are trying to work and
    do a job, maybe we should be going after the employers who are
    creating these kinds of conditions, and exploiting people in
    this way. Now, I did want to just mention something along the
    same topic, in Philadelphia I have had the opportunity to see a
    great partnership between the Welcoming Center.
        Which is a local nonprofit that promotes economic
    opportunities and assimilation for newcomers to our country,
    and the AFL-CIO, and the shipyard, the Philly Shipyard in our
    region. We have a shipyard where we have billions of dollars of
    investment going to ramp up American shipbuilding, and we need
    welders, and we need shipbuilders, and we need people who can
    outfit ships.
        Our labor community and the Welcoming Center said wait a
    minute, we have some really smart folks here who have work
    authorization, they are here legally, let us see if we can help
    them transition into those jobs. What can you tell us about
    those kinds of projects, Mr. Williams?
        Mr. Williams. Yes, those are the projects that we speak of
    when we talk about the construction industry, and the need for
    a workforce that wants to work in that industry. We don't talk
    enough about how this country has treated the way the
    construction industry has been a pathway for people to the
    middle class.
        We have demonized those that work with our hands, and have
    forced people into this false notion that just going to college
    is the only way to make a living, and to achieve the middle
    class. You know what, on some levels it is true, because in
    certain aspects of our industry when workers are forced to work
    in such low-wage conditions, it is hard to sustain their
    families.
        People have walked away from the construction industry
    because it has been inbred in them throughout high school that
    that industry is not an industry that you can support your
    families on. It is a real problem that we have.
        Ms. Scanlon. Well, certainly an effort we are with you on,
    trying to make sure that people understand there is a different
    pathway, and the trades are a great way to go. It is another
    inconsistency of this immigration enforcement effort that they
    are going after people on construction sites, going after
    people going to Home Depot to be day laborers. Going after
    people who are going to work, these are not the worst of the
    worst.
        Thank you, I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady's time has expired. Mr.
    Gill?
        Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the
    witnesses for coming here, and taking the time to have another
    good hearing on the dangers of mass migration, and what
    ultimately amounts to is a form of backdoor amnesty. Just a
    second ago we were hearing from our colleagues on the other
    side of the aisle talking about the benefits of a TPS system
    for communities all over the globe.
        We need to recenter our conversation and ask what type of
    immigration system benefits the American people. We hear a lot
    about, and we have heard in the news recently about the number
    of Afghanis for instance who have come into the United States
    under TPS or other various forms. The question that we need to
    ask is how does that benefit our people?
        How does it benefit American citizens to bring people in
    from a part of the globe that is the most backward, perhaps the
    most backward part of the globe. An area where pederastic rape
    is considered culturally acceptable, where women are chattel.
    How does it benefit American citizens to bring these people
    into our country?
        We have got to ask the question about unassimilable aliens
    who are coming into America. Do we really have an obligation to
    throw away our cultural inheritance to promote some sort of
    globalist open borders agenda? That is insane, we need to be
    looking out for our people, and not for the rest of the globe.
    With that said, happy to jump into questions here.
        Mr. Fishman, thank you for your testimony earlier. You
    talked about the legislative history of the TPS program, how
    the author of the bill established it claimed a substantial
    majority will return voluntarily, and this bill, according to
    them, provides a mechanism to ensure this result. Has that
    turned out to be the case?
        Mr. Fishman. That has not turned out to be the case,
    because in large measure, TPS has just been extended for years
    if not decades, so there is never any occasion to test it. When
    there was an occasion to test it, Chair Smith back in the 1999
    hearing asked the General Counsel of the Immigration and
    Naturalization Service, do you have any data on how many people
    actually returned when their TPS status went away?
        How many people you remove if they don't voluntarily
    return? The answer was I have no idea; we don't track that.
        Mr. Gill. Right, TPS was intended to be temporary, at least
    ostensibly, but we had a 25-year TPS status for Honduras since
    1999 due to a hurricane. Similarly, El Salvador was initially
    designated in March 2001, based on a series of earthquakes. The
    current administration terminated TPS for Honduras, we still
    have that status for El Salvador.
        I have got another question for you, Mr. Fishman. The
    statute that you mentioned earlier clearly states quote,

            There is no judicial review with respect to the designation, or
            termination, or extension of a designation of a foreign State.

    Despite that we frequently see that open border groups sue to
    stop the Trump Administration from terminating TPS designation.
    Including those that were issued decades ago, I am curious if
    you have any thoughts as to why they have been filing these
    lawsuits?
        Mr. Fishman. Well, they clearly are filing the lawsuits to
    frustrate the operation of the TPS law, which says if the
    conditions are no longer remaining, it shall be terminated. I
    think clearly that is the motivation.
        Mr. Gill. Got it. Let me ask you, in January 2021, there
    were about 55,000 Haitian TPS beneficiaries in the United
    States, and January 2025, there were 342,000, that is about a
    six times increase in just four years. The majority of these
    people simply just came into the country illegally, they walked
    in, didn't have a visa, and were illegally paroled by the Biden
    Administration on a categorical basis as we understand, and
    given this sort of alleged legal status.
        Let me ask you, did the U.S. Government vet any of these
    individuals on an individual basis?
        Mr. Fishman. They may have looked in databases, but as
    Rodney Scott, DHS Secretary Mayorkas' Border Patrol Chief said,
    for events that occur outside the U.S.,

            We really have no idea, there is no data in the databases
            regarding those events. An alien could be a saint, an alien
            could be a serial killer.

    Those are his words; we have no idea because there is nothing
    to look at in the databases.
        Mr. Gill. Thank you.
        Mr. McClintock. [Inaudible.]
        Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our
    witnesses for being here today. As we have heard, and as we
    know, U.S. law permits TPS designation for nationals of a
    country when ongoing armed conflict poses a serious threat to
    their personal safety. I recently sent a letter to the
    administration with the Ranking Member calling out the
    hypocrisy of revoking TPS for South Sudan.
        A country plagued by armed clashes, with DHS claiming that
    there have been improvements in the civil safety outlook. At
    the very same time, the administration has designated South
    Sudan as a level four travel advisory zone, do not travel.
    Stating that the armed conflict is ongoing and includes
    fighting between various political and ethnic groups.
        As Ms. Scanlon referenced, at the same time the Trump
    Administration has revoked TPS protections for hundreds of
    thousands of Venezuelans, while escalating actions that could
    lead us into war with their home country, which we had a
    bipartisan briefing on yesterday. Mr. Williams, President Trump
    campaigned on going after the quote, ''Worst of the worst when
    it comes to immigrants.''
        To be eligible for TPS, you have to not only be from one of
    these countries that is designated for TPS, you also have to
    meet strict criminal background checks, and be revetted every
    18 months to ensure that you are still eligible for TPS. Are
    the TPS holders that work with your union, and your colleagues
    the kinds of people that Trump has called the worst of the
    worst?
        Mr. Williams. Yes, I don't know how you could call somebody
    who pays their taxes, who works on the books, and works in our
    industry the worst of the worst. I was offended by Congressman
    Van Drew saying that our membership supports pulling the rug on
    TPS. When we speak to our membership, that is their brother,
    that is their sister, that is not somebody who is here
    unlawfully.
        That is somebody who is here lawfully under the protections
    that were granted by this body and given every chance to build
    an American lifestyle for them and their families.
        Ms. Ross. Well, I really appreciate that, Mr. Williams. We
    have had a bunch of ICE raids, and CBP raids in my area of
    North Carolina, and what has resulted is people who do have
    legal status being picked up. Citizens being picked up at
    construction sites completely shut down. Now, I actually was
    born in Pennsylvania, but I am not from your area of
    Pennsylvania.
        Let me tell you, the research triangle of North Carolina is
    a growing area, and we have active projects, and we cannot have
    people who are here legally scared to go to work and to have
    the construction projects shut down. Before we talk a little
    bit about that, so get ready, Mr. Williams.
        I want to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record
    the statement from Nancy J. Ellis, the former Mayor and newly
    re-elected Mayor of the Borough of Charleroi, who said that the
    testimony of Mr. Celaschi's and his opinions are biased and
    will not give a fair view of the Haitian community of
    Charleroi.
        Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
        Ms. Ross. With the time that you have, a little bit, about
    a minute, Mr. Williams talk about the effects on construction
    projects, infrastructure projects, when people who have legal
    status are afraid to show up to work.
        Mr. Williams. Yes, not just afraid to show up to work, but
    leaving the industry because of how the industry itself is
    being targeted. The effect that we have is it creates an even
    larger worker shortage in this country, skilled workers that
    have been trained, that have been vetted, that have worked in
    the industry for well over 10-15 years.
        The effects are dramatic, and as a labor leader I am her
    talking about the human aspect of this on our membership, but I
    can tell you, our partners, which are our employers in our
    industry, those that directly employ TPS recipients are saying
    wait a second, this is not what we thought we voted for.
        Most of those employers supported this current President of
    the United States and have been supporters of many people on
    the other side of the aisle than the Democratic party, and that
    is the truth. They are concerned about where they are going to
    find a workforce into the future.
        Ms. Ross. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. Mr. Biggs?
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Rogers, Temporary
    Protected Status, the ``T'' is for temporary, and let us just
    talk about this. The status is granted to people who are in an
    ongoing armed conflict with a foreign State, is that correct?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct.
        Mr. Biggs. It isn't could lead us into war, could be a war,
    could be a conflict, that doesn't count, is that right?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct, armed conflict is a statutory term,
    there has to be a war going on.
        Mr. Biggs. Yes, a foreign State requests for TPS because it
    temporarily cannot handle the return of its nationals due to an
    environmental disaster. Environmental disaster, right? In some
    cases, it might be an earthquake or a volcanic eruption in some
    places we have seen. When that is over, and that has been
    treated, that situation that warranted the TPS status
    dissipates, isn't that true?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct.
        Mr. Biggs. Then, you get to extraordinary and temporary
    conditions, which could be--not on a group basis, but on a
    particularized basis for individuals coming through, maybe it
    could be a health situation even. This Temporary Protected
    Status where they are going to grant you parole to basically be
    coming in for a period of time, but getting to this thing, we
    just heard a witness testify that these people are getting
    criminal background checks. Do they get a criminal background
    check?
        Mr. Rogers. It is impossible to do a criminal background
    check about their activities in their home country.
        Mr. Biggs. If they are coming in, and they are getting TPS
    status under CHNV, if you remember that program that was given
    by Biden, it was impossible to do a criminal background check,
    because we don't have access to Venezuela's records. If they
    are coming from Somalia, we don't have access to Somalia
    because Somalia doesn't even have records. It is just BS to say
    everybody is fully vetted, they are, we know, we know.
        Because we don't know. To say otherwise means you have
    never been to the border, and watched this happen. Should never
    testify to something you haven't seen, or don't know for sure.
    When we have the CHNV program, you have got people coming in,
    how many people that have TPS are illegally in the country?
    They started off illegally in the country.
        Mr. Rogers. I don't have the exact numbers, I am not sure
    anyone really tracks that, but it is a majority of them, it is
    the vast majority of them.
        Mr. Biggs. The 1.2 or whatever million it is, the majority
    got into this country illegally, for instance Syrians, how many
    came in illegally? We don't know a lot; more than half are the
    estimates. Haitians, how many came in? More than half, under
    the CHNV program. The CHNV program was not authorized to allow
    anyone in legally.
        CHNV program simply said we are not going to enforce the
    law, right? That is what happened under the Biden
    Administration. How many of them got TPS status? We know that
    there is over 600,000 Venezuelans who got TPS status, the vast
    majority of them under the Biden Administration's CHNV program,
    right? Isn't that true, Mr. Rogers?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct, the justification was poverty, and
    just difficult conditions in the country. It wasn't even one of
    the things we were talking about, environmental conditions, or
    war, it was--
        Mr. Biggs. None of the statutory provisions then?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct. They brought in those that
    extraordinary circumstances way past what the statute actually
    meant.
        Mr. Biggs. We have got going back to El Salvador. El
    Salvador by the way, I have been to El Salvador in the last two
    years, it is now one of the safest countries in the world. You
    can go ask their leadership, and they will say Andy, ''we will
    leave you in this alley overnight, you might get a little
    uncomfortable because it is a little cold, but guess what Andy?
    1Nobody is going to harm or molest you''; it is safe, this is
    the safest country. Guess what? You have got 230,000 El
    Salvadorans that have been here for 25-plus years. That ain't
    temporary anymore, that becomes something more accessible than
    a refugee claim or an asylum claim, because it becomes
    permanent. That becomes the next question.
        They have to come in every 6-18 months for review, and
    under what authority are they extended protected status, under
    what authority do we essentially make it permanent? For
    instance, Syrians, 20 years, El Salvadorans, 25 years, under
    what authority, Mr. Rogers? If there are any.
        Mr. Rogers. There is none. The statute requires re-
    evaluation every 6-18 months, and what the Trump Administration
    is doing is just re-evaluating, and finding that those
    conditions aren't met. It is not pulling anything back from
    people, it is just pulling anything back from people, it is
    just deciding not to renew something that the statute requires
    them not to renew.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time is expired. Mr.
    Garcia?
        Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Chair McClintock. The Trump
    Administration and its loyalists in Congress continue their
    efforts to persecute immigrants, and undermine our legal
    immigration system. Today their target is Temporary Protected
    Status, they are here to scapegoat and demonize people with TPS
    to justify Trump and Miller's decision to send a million people
    with legal status back to countries with extreme levels of
    armed conflict, and other conditions.
        As my colleagues have pointed out, many TPS recipients have
    lived in the U.S. for decades. They are our friends, neighbors,
    and community members. They contribute roughly $21 billion to
    our economy, and they pay over $5 billion in taxes to Federal,
    State, and local entities. Republicans don't care about their
    economic contributions, or about supporting this engine of
    economic growth.
        They are committed to a xenophobic agenda that blames
    immigrants for every problem in society. It is the same
    strategy that Vice-President J.D. Vance used when he lied about
    Haitians with TPS eating people's pets. It is the same strategy
    that Donald Trump uses when he refers to other nations as
    quote, ``Shithole countries.''
        Republicans are doing this because they have no plan on
    affordability, on healthcare, on education, on housing, on
    public safety, or fixing our broken immigration system. Their
    only plan is to blame hardworking immigrants. Their assault on
    immigrants is fundamentally an assault on workers, and it is a
    continuation of the administration's antiworker policies.
        The President has gutted agencies overseeing occupational
    safety standards, lowered the minimum wage for Federal
    contractors, terminated Department of Labor grants that fought
    child labor, and supported workers' rights, and stripped
    Federal workers of their collective bargaining power. Mr.
    Williams, thank you for being here today, and for your
    commonsense.
        Can you talk about how going after lawful working
    immigrants like TPS recipients fits into the antiworker agenda,
    and how does aggressive immigration enforcement disrupt work
    sites, and destabilize communities?
        Mr. Williams. Yes, thank you, Congressman. Thank you for
    your words about the real impacts that the American workers
    faced. It is not the immigrant worker that our American workers
    should be worried about, it is corporate America who has truly
    exploited the broken labor laws of this country, coupled with a
    broken immigration system.
        It is probably the No. 1 factor, and at least in the
    construction industry, that has led to the decline in wages,
    real wages being earned, the ability to afford the communities
    that they live in, to be able to retire with dignity. To be
    able to provide healthcare, all these assaults on the working
    class have been systematically put in place, and by design.
        Yet, we don't talk about who the real people that are
    destroying the working class in this country, and it is
    corporate America's insatiable desire to want to put profits
    over people, and that includes immigrant workers as well. They
    have been unwilling victims of that system now for generations.
    I am 47 years old, it has been going on my entire life.
        Mr. Garcia. On the disruption of work sites?
        Mr. Williams. The work sites in this country have been
    disrupted most recently based on these immigration raids and
    continue to be disrupted. You never see the person employing
    them put in the back of a van. You have never seen them put on
    TV as people that are exploiting workers. We have lost our way
    in the way we view this.
        Mr. Garcia. Do these raids at work sites make workers
    safer, or does it put them at risk?
        Mr. Williams. It puts them at extreme risk. Listen, you
    can't work safely when you are worried about being targeted for
    removal. The truth is people just won't show up to work, which
    we have seen in North Carolina, in Florida, where you have a
    disproportionate amount of TPS holders too in the State of
    Florida, Texas, and New York.
        Mr. Garcia. Thank you so much. This administration's TPS
    policy is a disgrace. Congress should act and pass the American
    Dream and Promise Act, which would provide stability, a path to
    citizenship, and a boost to the economy.
        Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. Mr. Knott?
        Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it defies
    commonsense and logic that the talking point that the previous
    questioner keeps repeating, that regardless of where you come
    from, if you come here legally or illegally you will lead to a
    robust economy. It doesn't matter if you are literate, it
    doesn't matter if you are skilled, and it doesn't matter if you
    are a member of a cartel.
        There is just a carte blanche statement that if you come to
    this country from anywhere other than America, America will
    prosper. It is just such a reckless statement, it defies logic,
    and it is not borne out in the statistics. Many people from
    around the world come here and live off of American charity,
    they live off of criminal livelihoods, and they live off of
    fraud as we have seen in Minnesota.
        This idea that every immigrant is a force multiplier
    regardless of legal status, is a force multiplier for good is
    just an absolute farce. Mr. Rogers also wanted to talk to you
    about this idea that the Biden Administration was a responsible
    arbiter of legal immigration policy. From my understanding,
    from where I sit, they used the Temporary Protected Status
    Program to usher in huge amounts of unvetted people from all
    over the world. Is that correct?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, that is correct--
        Mr. Knott. Explain how they did that. Sorry, go ahead.
        Mr. Rogers. It is not just Temporary Protected Status, they
    abused scores of immigration laws. They abused the parole
    power, they stretched every statute they could way beyond
    breaking point to justify illegal entry of 10-20 million
    illegal immigrants.
        Mr. Knott. How many people were ushered in under the TPS
    program?
        Mr. Rogers. The TPS program I believe went up from 400,000
    to 1.3 million, so about a million people, just under a
    million.
        Mr. Knott. Mr. Williams, just off the cuff, do you believe
    that that was done responsibly?
        Mr. Williams. Because this country has no comprehensive
    immigration reform, I do believe it was the only path to
    provide people with true work authorization in this country.
        Mr. Knott. I am asking do you think that Joe Biden operated
    responsibly using TPS to usher in almost 1.3 million people
    into the country?
        Mr. Williams. I am saying the system is broken as it stands
    now, and I don't believe President Biden authored in anybody.
    We have people coming into this country with no pathway--
        Mr. Knott. He did usher in people.
        Mr. Williams. I don't think personally--
        Mr. Knott. His administration did.
        Mr. Williams. Fair.
        Mr. Knott. Is that a fair use of the program, to bring in
    over a million people who were not vetted?
        Mr. Williams. When there are over and approaching 20
    million workers in this country that are coming to this country
    without any system to greet them at our borders, and to come in
    legally, and the TPS program has been the one pathway for
    people to receive work authorization, I believe that the
    extension of TPS should be considered even further by this
    body.
        Mr. Knott. You are avoiding the question. Is granting TPS
    to a million unvetted people responsible?
        Mr. Williams. I do believe it is.
        Mr. Knott. You believe it is?
        Mr. Williams. I do.
        Mr. Knott. OK, well that is a very irrational position that
    you take. Do you think that people who were brought in under
    that program caused harm to the country?
        Mr. Williams. I do not, because they have work
    authorization--
        Mr. Knott. Not one, not one? You are speaking in very broad
    terms, you don't think one person who came in under Biden's
    immigration recklessness has harmed the country?
        Mr. Williams. You asked, does the process of TPS cause
    harm? Do I have any understanding of one person? I don't think
    that is a fair question to ask.
        Mr. Knott. No, I asked did the Biden Administration use TPS
    responsibly?
        Mr. Williams. I believe TPS is the most responsible way for
    immigrants of this country to come and work in our country
    legally.
        Mr. Knott. Did the Biden Administration use the program
    responsibly? It is beyond any shadow of a doubt that he ushered
    in--
        Mr. Williams. I believe they did.
        Mr. Knott. Over a million people with no vetting.
        Mr. Williams. I believe they did.
        Mr. Knott. You believe they did?
        Mr. Williams. I do.
        Mr. Knott. All right. Now, Mr. Rogers, back to you. Please
    explain for the room how that program was abused under the
    Biden Administration.
        Mr. Rogers. Well, first, they used pretextual
    justifications to grant TPS, for example, to Haiti and
    Venezuela. They just used general poverty and difficult
    conditions in the country, which is never what TPS was designed
    for. To the point about needing workers, we actually have work
    visas, we have the H-2 Visa which lets temporary workers enter
    the country lawfully.
        There is a process to bring those workers, we don't need
    TPS to do that, there is no reason for that.
        Mr. Knott. Sure. In terms of the abuses, again, we see this
    talking point echoed repeatedly, that vetting is thorough. Can
    you please dispel that notion that it was applied the last four
    years?
        Mr. Rogers. The vetting is impossible. As we have said, you
    can't. When an immigrant applies for a work visa, or for an
    immigrant visa, they have to get a police certificate from
    their local police station in their home country. None of that
    happens under TPS. If you look at the form, it is just a bunch
    of yes or no questions. Have you ever done X or Y, and they
    self-report.
        Mr. Knott. Right. Basically what we have concluded, looking
    at Biden's Administration administering the TPS program, is
    that it fits within a broader narrative that there really
    should not be any restriction for any person who wants to come
    into the United States. Is that fair?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Knott. I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. [Inaudible.]
        Ms. Crockett. I didn't hear him, sorry. Thank you, Mr.
    Chair. President Trump has made it clear that he only opposes
    lawful immigration when non-White people immigrate to the
    United States. His immigration agenda isn't about public
    safety, or economic stability, or jobs, it is about racism. It
    was racist during his first administration; it is racist now.
        His first administration, he has hired a bunch of racists
    to carry it out. In fact, I am going to pause here really
    quickly, I know we are talking about TPS, but I don't know if
    anyone else has mentioned the fact that ICE agents were
    literally dragging a pregnant woman just this week in a viral
    video. Don't tell me that this isn't about cruelty, because it
    is.
        Moving on. The President is now on record admitting to
    calling majority Black and Brown nations quote, ``Shithole
    countries.'' He consistently refers to Black and Brown people
    as quote, ``low IQ, stupid, or nasty.'' His agenda is about one
    thing, giving racial preference to specific people seeking to
    immigrate to America, which is illegal and unconstitutional.
        Nevertheless, they are going to keep trying to get all to
    believe that immigrants are the cause of all your problems.
    Here is the truth, immigrants are not responsible for a
    billionaire CEO refusing to increase your wage. The corporation
    you work for isn't replacing your job with artificial
    intelligence because of Haitian refugees.
        Your landlord isn't increasing your rent because someone
    who is fleeting gang violence in Central America moved into
    your community. A Palestinian kid who was afforded a
    scholarship to study at an American university isn't
    responsible for your child's tuition increasing. Latino farm
    workers aren't responsible for prices of your groceries
    increasing.
        Let us be clear, blaming migrants, deporting migrants, and
    ending TPS won't improve the lives of most Americans. As you
    can see, we are in the middle of the largest, most inhumane
    deportation program in American history. Guess what, housing is
    still unaffordable, healthcare is still too expensive,
    groceries are still too expensive, wages aren't keeping up with
    inflation, and jobs are still being outsourced.
        Maybe it is not the immigrants, maybe it is the failed
    Republican policies. In my State of Texas the Republicans
    control the House, the Senate, and the Governor's mansion. In
    the United States the Republicans control the House, the
    Senate, and the White House. Maybe it is the fact that
    Republicans would rather give permanent tax cuts to
    billionaires, but won't even give middle class Americans
    temporary healthcare benefits.
        Maybe it is the fact that President Trump has the
    wealthiest cabinet in American history, and these people are
    out of touch with the American public. Now, Mr. Williams, will
    ending TPS help or hurt the finishing trades industry your
    union members work in?
        Mr. Williams. It will hurt the construction industry as a
    whole.
        Ms. Crockett. Let me tell you this, or let me ask you this,
    this ain't in here. Has it already hurt the construction
    industry?
        Mr. Williams. It has, because of the fear and uncertainty.
        Ms. Crockett. There is a lot of fear, there are workers
    that are not showing up to their jobs, regardless of their
    status, because of how immigration is being carried out under
    this administration, is that correct?
        Mr. Williams. That is correct.
        Ms. Crockett. Will ending TPS help or hurt job site safety?
        Mr. Williams. It will hurt job site safety.
        Ms. Crockett. Will ending TPS help or hurt affordability in
    our communities?
        Mr. Williams. It will hurt affordability in our
    communities.
        Ms. Crockett. Exactly. As people are complaining about the
    fact that housing is up, you have got to think about what those
    input costs look like. Those input costs, besides the fact that
    the has been reckless, and ridiculous, and not been reined in
    as it relates to the tariffs, and we know that we get a lot of
    lumber out of Canada, we want to fight with Canada, we want to
    fight with Mexico.
        Then, we want to tell people that have come here and are
    going through the process, and I am not going to say that any
    process is perfect, but the last time that I checked,
    Republicans continue to offer us concepts of a plan instead of
    actual plans, because they would rather campaign on the chaos
    instead of fixing it. Listen, none of us sitting here, whether
    you are a Democrat or a Republican wants to be unsafe in our
    country.
        I want to be clear, I don't want a criminal in my
    neighborhood either. But going after all these countries when
    we talk about--it looks like they want to end TPS for Burma, El
    Salvador, Ethiopia, Haiti, Lebanon, Somalia, South Sudan,
    Sudan, and Syria, they actually do have Ukraine got extended a
    little bit, and Yemen got extended a little bit.
        The vast majority of these countries, there is one thing in
    common. A lot of those people from those countries have a
    little bit of melanin in their skin.
        With that, I will yield.
        Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady yields back. Mr. Onder?
        Mr. Onder. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For decades Temporary
    Protected Status has been systematically distorted far beyond
    what Congress intended. What was meant to be a short-term
    humanitarian measure has become a backdoor pathway for illegal
    aliens to remain in the United States indefinitely, often with
    full work authorization, and no meaningful enforcement of the
    law.
        Under the Biden-Harris Administration this abuse has not
    only continued, but it has exploded. The 1.5 million TPS
    recipients are now in the United States, a number that has
    quadrupled over the past four years of the Biden
    Administration. This reckless expansion was not authorized by
    Congress, and it imposes real and growing costs on American
    communities.
        Towns like Springfield, Ohio, Charleroi, Pennsylvania,
    Logansport, Indiana, and towns that never consented to become
    immigration test cases are now overwhelmed. Local leaders and
    residents are pleading for help as thousands of TPS recipients
    pour into their communities with little warning, and no Federal
    support, and often as we have heard today, stayed forever.
        These communities are reporting rising crime and traffic
    incidents, school systems are stretched beyond the breaking
    point, and public health concerns, including reappearance of
    diseases once eradicated in the United States are now with us
    again. Hospitals are being pushed to their limits. Mr.
    Celaschi, has the arrival--when I was in medical school
    residency fellowship, internal medicine, I saw a total of maybe
    half a dozen cases of tuberculosis.
        They were generally in either elderly homeless people, they
    were in people who were immune compromised, and some were in
    immigrants. Has the arrival of TPS recipients in your community
    coincided with the re-emergence of diseases that we generally
    don't see in America?
        Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge there have been a
    couple of cases that have come to the forefront.
        Mr. Onder. Have you seen those in Charleroi?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. Onder. Have you seen some cases in Charleroi?
        Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge there have been a
    few cases.
        Mr. Onder. In schools?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. Onder. Presumably young, healthy people bringing in TB?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. Onder. Do you know whether those have been multidrug
    resistant TB cases? That has been a problem recently.
        Mr. Celaschi. I do not know that.
        Mr. Onder. Yes. Are there other ways the TPS program has
    affected American students who attend your schools?
        Mr. Celaschi. Really can't get into much from the school
    district. I know that they were frustrated at the very
    beginning, they were not receiving any funding, nor did the
    borough receive any funding. They did through, I guess months,
    years, they received a little bit to help with the influx of
    immigrants, but the borough has still not received anything.
        Mr. Onder. Have the schools had to hire more English
    learner teachers because of this influx?
        Mr. Celaschi. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
        Mr. Onder. OK. Mr. Rogers, 1.5 million TPS recipients, when
    deciding to award Temporary Protected Status, is any
    distinction made between people who have come to this country
    legally or illegally?
        Mr. Rogers. No, no distinction at all.
        Mr. Onder. Do you know, the 1.5 million, this may have been
    in someone's testimony, but do we know how that breaks down as
    people who have come here legally versus illegally?
        Mr. Rogers. I don't have the specific breakdown, but it is
    generally agreed that the vast majority are illegal.
        Mr. Onder. It was, I believe your testimony, Somalia, TPS
    status since 1991, I had not yet finished my medical training
    in 1991, I had a lot more hair, what in the world, 1991, is it
    in Federal law, some procedure to end Temporary Protected
    Status at some point?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, the designation of a country only lasts
    six to 18 months, and then DHS is required to re-evaluate and
    decide whether to renew or not. It has just been renewed every
    time it has come up--
        Mr. Onder. It has just been renewed indiscriminately
    without any potential--the earthquake was 15 years ago, maybe
    people could go home perhaps?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, until the Trump Administration, it was
    just renewed.
        Mr. Onder. Until the Trump Administration, OK. Well, thank
    you very much for your testimony. I yield back.
        Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Celaschi,
    would you like to respond to the drive by smear by Ms. Ross
    that you are out of touch with your town?
        Mr. Celaschi. Could you repeat?
        Mr. McClintock. Would you like to respond to the drive by
    smear we heard from Ms. Ross a few minutes ago?
        Mr. Celaschi. I wish you would have let it into the record,
    because names that were delivered, our current mayor is in full
    support of mayor. He is a Republican mayor in town. There were
    claims that the future mayor, and they named her name, Ms.
    Ellis, she declared not to be the future mayor; it was a front
    page article that she was taking the seat on council, and not
    mayor, but she won both seats, so that was inaccurate as well
    too.
        Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Mr. Fishman, the statue clearly
    states that there is quote,

            There is no judicial review with respect to the designation, or
            termination, or extension of a foreign State on the TPS list.

    Despite that, we frequently see the open border groups sue to
    stop the Trump Administration from terminating TPS
    designations. How can that be the case, and what should we do
    about it?
        Mr. Fishman. Well, they do it--some of these Federal courts
    do it on a theory that doesn't apply to constitutional
    violations, that doesn't apply to systemic issues independent
    of individual determination. The Supreme Court has stepped up
    this year, and stayed a lot of those injunctions, and allowed
    the Trump Administration to actually carry forth the law, and
    terminate, where appropriate, past designations of TPS.
        Mr. McClintock. The law in your opinion is clear; it is
    just certain partisan judges who were abusing it?
        Mr. Fishman. Well, I mean the law could be made stronger if
    there was an opportunity to reform it. Even under the current
    language, it is a stretch, and the Supreme Court has stepped in
    to prevent that sort of stretch.
        Mr. McClintock. Mr. Rogers, what is your view of that?
        Mr. Rogers. The law is very clear, it says no judicial
    review. I don't see how you can get any clearer than that.
        Mr. McClintock. Mr. Fishman, this Subcommittee has received
    extensive testimony about how illegal labor forces down the
    wages of American workers with whom that labor competes. As we
    flood these markets with illegal labor, the supply of labor
    increases, thus the wages for that labor decrease. What would
    you advise someone like the Democratic witness who assures us
    that he is looking out for the best interest of his members?
        Mr. Fishman. I worked, when I worked for the Subcommittee
    we had many hearings on the deleterious effect on American
    workers, both of any race or ethnicity on mass low-skilled
    immigration. Not only does it lower wages, but there has been a
    collapse in the labor force--
        Mr. McClintock. That is simple economics, right? You flood
    a market with--
        Mr. Fishman. Yes, a collapse in labor force participation.
        Mr. McClintock. Additional labor, the price of that labor
    is suppressed or declines, it is a supply a demand function.
        Mr. Fishman. Exactly, the result is currently many working
    age Americans simply are dropped out of the labor force because
    of the wage rate that mass low-skilled immigration has caused.
        Mr. McClintock. We are talking about adding a million such
    people is a good thing for American workers, that we need them
    in our shipyards and construction. Yet, Temporary Protected
    Status is by definition a temporary program. Are the Democrats
    tacitly telling us they intend to make it a permanent program?
        Mr. Fishman. What they are saying is completely at odds
    with what the Democrats who championed TPS in 1990 promised TPS
    was for.
        Mr. McClintock. Well, it seems to me that if they want to
    make it a permanent program, they ought to just say so, and
    attempt to that through legislation, and level with the
    American people that this is their objective. If you are an
    American construction worker or shipyard worker, you just have
    to suck it up, and put up with suppressed wages indefinitely,
    because after all they are paying union dues, so the union
    bosses are happy. Is that essentially it?
        Mr. Fishman. Exactly, if you want amnesty, if that is your
    goal, call it what it is.
        Mr. McClintock. Mr. Celaschi, in your opinion, is TPS as it
    is currently conceived in the best interest of the American
    people, or is it more benefiting foreign national interests and
    business interests that want to exploit these populations for
    cheap labor regardless of any effects that they have on the
    communities that these people resettle in?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes, I absolutely agree with that.
        Mr. McClintock. Your experience is consistent with that in
    Charleroi as an elected official?
        Mr. Celaschi. Yes.
        Mr. McClintock. Great, I am going to yield back. Recognize
    Mr. Roy. I'm sorry, Mr. Jayapal for a unanimous consent
    request.
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to ask
    unanimous consent to enter into the record an article from
    FWD.us called ``Temporary Protected Status Protects Families
    While also Boosting the U.S. Economy.''
        I would like to enter into the record, this is from The
    Guardian, ``A Pennsylvania Town is Thriving with Haitian
    Immigrants and is the Latest Target of Republican Hate.''
        I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the
    record an article from The Washington Post called, ``How Trump
    Warped and Weaponized a Small Pennsylvania Town's Immigration
    Story.''
        I would like to enter into the record an article from the
    American Business Immigration Coalition entitled, ``Facts
    Immigrants aren't Stealing your Jobs or Lowering Wages.''
        Mr. McClintock. Without objection. Mr. Hunt?
        Mr. Hunt. Thank you so much, and thank you witnesses for
    being here today. As of today, roughly 1.5 million people in
    the U.S. have Temporary Protected Status. Most of these TPS
    recipients entered the U.S. during the Biden-Harris
    Administration. They permitted millions of undocumented
    individuals to enter our country under the pretense of quote,
    ``protection.''
        What was once intended to temporarily help those who live
    in the countries that are in ongoing armed conflicts, serious
    natural disasters, or aliens returning to their country of
    origin is not in the interest of the United States has now
    become a way for Democrats to import their own voters, as we
    have seen for the past four years.
        Nearly 725,000 TPS illegal migrants entered the country
    during the Biden-Harris Administration, often with little to no
    information provided about their reasons for entry. Illegals
    from Haiti, Venezuela, Afghanistan, Sudan, Nicaragua, and El
    Salvador, many of these criminal aliens have claimed American
    lives, innocent victims such as Laken Riley, Jocelyn Nungaray,
    Rachel Morin, and Nathaniel Baker.
        This must, and it will stop, it has stopped under the
    current administration. The Trump Administration has made
    remarkable progress reaching its seven consecutive months
    without illegal border crossings, the fewest that we have seen
    in the modern history of this great Nation. Congress needs to
    act to make sure criminals, gang members, cartels, and
    terrorists never set foot on American soil.
        As somebody that served and fought in combat for this great
    Nation, that is exactly why I served this country, and it is
    exactly why I continue to serve in the halls of Congress, to
    continue to protect my fellow Americans. Mr. Celaschi, thank
    you for being here, sir. In your testimony you stated that many
    residents in your town have serious concerns about housing
    capacity, safety resources, school support, and healthcare
    resources.
        You also made it clear that your city did not sign up to be
    used as a test subject. Let me make it clear, your request to
    Congress is not absurd, it is not cruel, but rather reasonable,
    and based on commonsense, and I want to thank you for that.
    What your town has experienced is unfair, it is unjust, it is
    un-American.
        With that being said, I want to give you some time on how
    your commonsense request will benefit your community and local
    residents.
        Mr. Celaschi. Everything begins with communication, and
    there wasn't any from the start. If that had been brought to
    the table, I think the dialog would have become more healthier.
    All this has caused is a lot of division and a lot of hate. I
    am sorry to say that. I feel that from the Federal Government
    to the State Government, again, if this would have been handled
    more professionally, I think everyone at the table in our small
    community could have come up with a good solution.
        Being that we weren't permitted to be involved, and they
    dumped these immigrants into our community, and again, I have
    compassion for them too, they are human beings, as I stated.
    This went over and above something that should have been placed
    in a small town such as Charleroi, Pennsylvania.
        Mr. Hunt. Sir, are you xenophobic?
        Mr. Celaschi. Pardon?
        Mr. Hunt. Are you xenophobic?
        Mr. Celaschi. Pardon?
        Mr. Hunt. Are you xenophobic, are you racist, are you
    xenophobic? Do you hate immigrants, do you hate people that
    come to this country looking for a better way of life, do you
    hate them, or?
        Mr. Celaschi. Sir, I have three biracial grandchildren who
    I love.
        Mr. Hunt. Well, I will be damned. This is literally about
    keeping your community safe, and literally about what it means
    to be an American regardless of the way you look, it is about
    taking care of our citizens. Would you agree with that
    assessment, sir?
        Mr. Celaschi. Absolutely.
        Mr. Hunt. Well, thank you very much for your passion, I
    really, really appreciate that. I have got a minute left, and I
    want to end with this. Under the Biden Administration our
    country was invaded by illegal immigrants period. It was an
    invasion of 20 million people that entered this country
    illegally, which is completely unacceptable.
        Now, the Trump Administration has taken decisive action to
    clean this mess up and make sure that we don't ever see
    anything like we saw for the past four years again. President
    Trump got re-elected in large part because of what happened on
    our Southern border. As a Texan, as somebody that bore the
    brunt of a lot of these issues, and a lot of these problems
    during the Biden Administration, I am here to tell you that I
    am utterly disgusted at what I saw.
        No, I am not racist, and no, I am not xenophobic. I am a
    person that is willing to die for my country, and I am a person
    that fought for my country in combat. I want everyone to know
    this, that Americans need to be the top priority in our
    country. Every other country in the world operates like that,
    and so should we. Thank you for being here, God bless you, and
    Merry Christmas, sir.
        Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr. Roy?
        Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair for holding this hearing, I
    appreciate the witnesses, thank you for being here. A couple of
    questions, and I think I will start with you, Mr. Rogers. I am
    just going to level set, and some of this may have been covered
    before I got here. Under President Biden the TPS population
    increased from I believe somewhere around 410,000 at the end of
    the first Trump Administration.
        To 1.5 million before Biden left office this January,
    basically quadrupling, is that roughly correct?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. In other words, and I have heard some people
    talking about some of the data, but I just do think it merits
    observation for the American people. In other words, Biden
    added over 700,000 aliens to the TPS population, meaning over
    70 percent of all aliens granted TPS initially entered the U.S.
    during the Biden-Harris Administration?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct.
        Mr. Roy. According to Federal data and Pew Research, most
    TPS holders are illegal aliens who crossed the border without
    authorization, or overstayed their visa before receiving TPS,
    not individuals who were lawfully present on valid, temporary
    visas, do you agree with that assertion?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. During the Biden Administration's four years,
    nearly three million illegal aliens were paroled into the
    interior, and he even created the CHNV program in 2022, which
    created specific parole programs to admit hundreds of thousands
    of Haitians and Venezuelans, correct?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct.
        Mr. Roy. Venezuela and Haiti received TPS designations in
    2023-2024 respectively, both after the launch of the mass CHNV
    parole program in 2022, right?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. Is it plausible that the Biden Administration used
    TPS to allow large numbers of illegal aliens, Venezuelans and
    Haitians to remain in the U.S., since most of these individuals
    likely did not enter the U.S. lawfully or qualify for asylum?
        Mr. Rogers. It is definitely plausible, in fact, there were
    designations at the beginning of his term, and then they
    backdated, and extended the dates after they let all those
    people in.
        Mr. Roy. Right, impeached Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas blew
    our borders wide open by exploiting asylum and parole, it is
    fairly well documented. In my view, breaking the law in doing
    so. I would think it is well within the realm of possibilities
    that TPS was also abused to shield those released illegal
    aliens from deportation, right?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes, it is definitely plausible.
        Mr. Roy. It just wasn't Haiti and Venezuela, right?
    Mayorkas and Biden used TPS to shield upwards of 700,000
    illegal aliens from Afghanistan, Burma, Cameroon, El Salvador,
    Ethiopia, Honduras, Lebanon, Nepal, Nicaragua, Somalia, South
    Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Ukraine, and Yemen, all true, right?
        Mr. Rogers. Correct.
        Mr. Roy. Let me ask you this. The premise--and maybe I will
    ask you, Mr. Fishman, just because I want to spread the wealth
    here a little bit, I am having fun with George. The premise for
    TPS is providing temporary immigration relief to aliens already
    in the U.S. when a catastrophic event occurs in their home
    country?
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. Yet, beginning with TPS Liberia in 1997, the
    Executive Branch unilaterally created a new authority called a
    TPS redesignation, right? Which it uses to move up the
    eligibility cutoff date, and cover aliens who come to the U.S.
    after the event that resulted in the initial granting of TPS?
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. The term redesignation does not appear in Section
    244 of the INA, right?
        Mr. Fishman. It does not.
        Mr. Roy. Nevertheless, the Executive Branch, including the
    Biden Administration, used redesignation to apply the initial
    designation, even if the event occurred 10-20 years ago to
    cover recent U.S. present illegal aliens from that country, is
    that right?
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. Can you explain how the Executive is supposed to
    square this redesignation with congressional intent given that
    it is not stated anywhere in the relevant INA sections?
        Mr. Fishman. Well, the USCIS Director under President
    Biden--President Obama, I am sorry, was very clear. DHS
    designation can be extended based on things, adverse climactic
    conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with why TPS was
    designated for that country in the first place.
        Mr. Roy. Like the abuse of parole, like the abuse of
    asylum, it is abuse of the statutes that Congress put forward
    to do these designations, wouldn't you say?
        Mr. Fishman. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. Mr. Rogers, do you agree with that?
        Mr. Rogers. Yes.
        Mr. Roy. Mr. Chair, I appreciate you holding this hearing.
    I think this is an important topic that we need to elevate. I
    will yield back my last 30 seconds for the sake of time.
        Mr. McClintock. I appreciate that, the gentleman yields
    back. We have no one else here to continue questioning, so we
    will conclude today's hearing. I want to thank our witnesses--I
    am told Mr. Grothman is on his way, but if he is not here now,
    we will just have to go along without him. Again, thank you for
    appearing before the Subcommittee today.
        Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
    days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses,
    or additional materials for the record. Without objection, and
    without Mr. Grothman, the hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 3:56 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

        All materials submitted for the record by the Members of
    the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
    Enforce-
    ment can be found at the following links: https://
    docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=118767.

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