[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


             MARKUP OF: H.R. 5763, MAIN STREET PARITY
               ACT; H.R. 5788, 504 PROGRAM RISK OVER-
               SIGHT ACT; H.R. 3496, NORTHERN MARIANA 
               ISLANDS SMALL BUSINESS ACCESS ACT; H.R.
               5764, AI FOR MAINSTREET ACT; H.R. 5784,
               ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE WISDOM FOR INN-
               OVATIVE SMALL ENTERPRISES (AI-WISE) ACT; 
               H.R. 5778, IMPROVING SBA ENGAGEMENT ON 
               EMPLOYEE OWNERSHIP ACT; H.R. 4305, DE-
               STROYING UNNECESSARY, MISALIGNED, AND
               PROHIBITIVE (DUMP) RED TAPE ACT OF 2025
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                           NOVEMBER 18, 2025

                               __________

[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILBLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                               
            Small Business Committee Document Number 119-022
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
                               __________
                               

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
62-202                    WASHINGTON : 2026               
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------          
            
                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri
                         NICK LALOTA, New York
                        BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota
                          TONY WIED, Wisconsin
                      ROB BRESNAHAN, Pennsylvania
                          BRIAN JACK, Georgia
                         TROY DOWNING, Montana
             KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern Marina Islands
                         DEREK SCHMIDT, Kansas
                        JIMMY PATRONIS, Florida
               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
                      LAMONICA MCIVER, New Jersey
                        GIL CISNEROS, California
                       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
                        GEORGE LATIMER, New York
                         DEREK TRAN, California
                       LATEEFAH SIMON, California
                       JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
                        HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
                    MAGGIE GOODLANDER, New Hampshire

                 Lauren Holmes, Majority Staff Director
                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director
                            C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Roger Williams..............................................     1
Hon. Nydia Velazquez.............................................     3

                                APPENDIX

Additional Material for the Record:
Text of Legislation:
    H.R. 5763 - Main Street Parity Act...........................    32
    H.R. 5788 - 504 Program Risk Oversight Act...................    34
    H.R. 3496 - Northern Mariana Islands Small Business Access 
      Act........................................................    39
    H.R. 5764 - AI for Main Street Act...........................    41
    H.R. 5784 - Artificial Intelligence Wisdom for Innovative 
      Small Enterprises (AI-WISE) Act............................    44
    H.R. 5778 - Improving SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership 
      Act........................................................    53
    H.R. 4305 - Destroying Unnecessary, Misaligned, and 
      Prohibitive (DUMP) Red Tape Act of 2025....................    56
Amendments:
    ANS to H.R. 3496, offered by Ms. King-Hinds..................    59
    ANS to H.R. 5764, offered by Mr. Alford......................    61
    ANS to H.R. 4305, offered by Mr. Wied........................    64
    Amendment #1 to the ANS to H.R. 4305 offered by Mr. Cisneros.    68
    Amendment #1 to the ANS to H.R. 4305 offered by Ms. Scholten.    73
Support Documents:
    E-Vote Results...............................................    74
    OpenAI Letter................................................    83
    INTUIT Letter................................................    85
    Coalition for Sensible Safeguards (CSS) Letter...............    87
    National Association of Development Companies (NADCO) - H.R. 
      5763 Letter................................................    89
    National Association of Development Companies (NADCO) - H.R. 
      5788 Letter................................................    90
    The National Cooperative Business Association (NCBA) Letter..    91
    Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council (SBE) - H.R. 5764 
      Letter.....................................................    93
    Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council (SBE) - H.R. 4305 
      Letter.....................................................    94
    Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council (SBE) - H.R. 5763 
      Letter.....................................................    95
Votes:
    H.R. 3496 - ANS offered by Ms. King-Hinds agreed to by voice.    96
    H.R. 5764 - ANS offered by Mr. Alford agreed to by voice.....    97
    H.R. 4305 - ANS offered by Mr. Wied agreed to by voice.......    98
    H.R. 5763 - Main Street Parity Act Ordered to be reported by 
      the Yeas and Nays: 27-0....................................    99
    H.R. 5788 - 504 Program Risk Oversight Act Ordered to be 
      reported by the Yeas and Nays: 27-0........................   100
    H.R. 3496 - Northern Mariana Islands Small Business Access 
      Act (As Amended) Ordered to be reported by the Yeas and 
      Nays: 27-0.................................................   101
    H.R. 5764 - AI for Main Street Act (As Amended) Ordered to be 
      reported by the Yeas and Nays: 27-0........................   102
    H.R. 5784 - Artificial Intelligence Wisdom for Innovative 
      Small Enterprises (AI-WISE) Act Ordered to be reported by 
      the Yeas and Nays: 27-0....................................   103
    H.R. 5778 - Improving SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership 
      Act Ordered to be reported by the Yeas and Nays: 27-0......   104
    Amendment #1 to the ANS to H.R. 4305 offered by Mr. Cisneros 
      Ordered to be reported by the Yeas and Nays: 12-15.........   105
    Amendment #1 to the ANS to H.R. 4305 offered by Ms. Scholten 
      Ordered to be reported by the Yeas and Nays: 12-15.........   106
    H.R. 4305 - Destroying Unnecessary, Misaligned, and 
      Prohibitive (DUMP) Red Tape Act of 2025 (As Amended) 
      Ordered to be reported by the Yeas and Nays: 18-9..........   107

 
 MARKUP OF: H.R. 5763, MAIN STREET PARITY ACT; H.R. 5788, 504 PROGRAM 
RISK OVERSIGHT ACT; H.R. 3496, NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS SMALL BUSINESS 
  ACCESS ACT; H.R. 5764, AI FOR MAINSTREET ACT; H.R. 5784, ARTIFICIAL 
  INTELLIGENCE WISDOM FOR INNOVATIVE SMALL ENTERPRISES (AI-WISE) ACT; 
  H.R. 5778, IMPROVING SBA ENGAGEMENT ON EMPLOYEE OWNERSHIP ACT; H.R. 
 4305, DESTROYING UNNECESSARY, MISALIGNED, AND PROHIBITIVE (DUMP) RED 
                            TAPE ACT OF 2025

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
               Committee on Small Business,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:54 a.m., in Room 
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams 
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Van 
Duyne, Ellzey, Alford, LaLota, Finstad, Wied, Bresnahan, Jack, 
Downing, King-Hinds, Schmidt, Patronis, Velazquez, McGarvey, 
Scholten, McIver, Cisneros, Morrison, Latimer, Tran, Simon, 
Conaway, and Goodlander.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Before we get started, I want to 
recognize Representative Meuser from the great state of 
Pennsylvania to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance and a short 
prayer.
    Mr. MEUSER. Will you please stand and bow your heads? Dear 
God, we appreciate this day bringing us together back here in 
Washington, doing the best work we can for a great nation. And 
we thank you for helping be creative. Give us the wisdom. We 
ask for this often, but please give it to us to focus on the 
greater good, to truly put you and country ahead of self.
    And there is a biblical verse that is known as blessed are 
the meek for they will inherit the Earth. The meek, of course, 
are those that are humble, have humility, and appreciate the 
people and the world around them most. They will inherit the 
Earth. Allow us to follow this line from Scripture.
    In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, God be 
with you. Thank you. Amen.
    We will now do the pledge.
    ALL. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States 
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one 
nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 
all.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The Committee will now come to order and 
a quorum is present. Without objection, the Chair is authorized 
to declare a recess of the Committee at any time.
    As required by the House rules, a copy of the legislative 
measures have been made available to Members and the public at 
least 24 hours in advance. Without objection, the Committee 
will vote electronically in accordance with the Committee rules 
and regulations developed by the House Committees on Rules and 
Administration.
    I now recognize myself for opening remarks.
    Today we will mark up seven important bills that support 
small business across the country. These bills reflect the 
commitment to equipping entrepreneurs with the tools they need 
to innovate, grow, and compete in our ever-evolving economy. 
From the expanding access to artificial intelligence resources, 
strengthening oversight, removing outdated barriers to capital, 
and tackling burdensome regulations, each of these bills will 
support Main Street America in a meaningful way.
    As Chairman, I am proud of the network--or proud of the 
work being done in this Committee to support the 
administration's efforts and ensure that small businesses 
remain at the forefront of the American economy. These bills 
represent the Committee's bipartisan commitment to fostering an 
environment where small businesses can grow, innovate, and 
invest in their communities.
    Several of the bills we are considering today focus on the 
transformative role of artificial intelligence and ensure that 
small businesses have access to resources and training to help 
them utilize AI. Our bills today will also bring greater 
accountability and oversight of the SBA 504 loan program and 
improve access to SBA lending by all types of industries. We 
will also consider a bill that would finally bring SBA 
microlending to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana 
Islands.
    I appreciate the Ranking Member and the Committee staff who 
have supported the Committee's effort over the years on this 
issue. Another bill will require the SBA to implement 
requirements for the fiscal year 2019 NDAA to provide 
information and outreach about employee ownership for small 
businesses. And finally, we will consider a bill that empowers 
small businesses to report burdensome regulations by codifying 
the SBA Office of Advocacy's Red Tape Hotline.
    I am proud of the continued bipartisan efforts that have 
resulted in today's markup. These efforts have led to the 
passage of 18 small business bills out of the House this year, 
which now await Senate consideration. I look forward to working 
with my colleagues so we can continue to pass meaningful 
legislation that empowers small businesses and strengthens our 
communities.
    Now, with that, I look forward to today's markup and I 
yield to the distinguished Member and my friend, the Ranking 
Member from New York, Ms. Velazquez, for her opening remarks.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this 
markup today.
    As we consider legislation to shape the future of small 
businesses across the country, it is important to address both 
the opportunities and challenges facing small businesses today. 
I plan to lend my support to the six bipartisan bills under 
consideration and I will lay out my concerns with the last 
bill. And I appreciate the Chairman's efforts to mark up a fair 
ratio of Republican and Democratic bills. I am encouraged to 
see us working together on commonsense, bipartisan bills that 
provide more opportunity for small businesses because expanding 
opportunities shouldn't be a partisan issue.
    With that said, we need the SBA to be a more accountable 
partner. Ignoring congressional oversight letters and requests 
for meetings undermines trust. It needs to change and my hope 
is that you will join me in ensuring the agency is more 
responsive to this Committee.
    And I am hopeful we can work together on issues that really 
matter: lowering costs for small businesses. These critical 
employers who account for a large portion of jobs in this 
country are not hiring because they are grappling with 
inflation and escalating costs. According to the Center for 
American Progress analysis, more than 5 million self-employed 
small business owners have health insurance coverage through 
the ACA. We cannot allow these tax credits to expire, causing 
premiums to double for millions of Americans. And our ranchers 
and farmers are reeling from decisions on tariffs and beef 
purchases that have been unilaterally made by this 
administration. I urge you to schedule a hearing so we can hear 
directly from small businesses about these important issues.
    Thank you again, Mr. Williams, and I look forward to a 
productive markup. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The lady yields back. And does any other 
Member seek recognition for the purpose of making an opening 
statement?
    Okay. Seeing none, we will now move to consideration of the 
first bill.
    H.R. 5763
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5763, the 
Main Street Parity Act, introduced by Chairman, myself, and 
Representative Simon. The clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 5763, a bill to amend the Small Business--
--
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 5763 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    I now recognize myself for a statement on the bill.
    Most small business owners applying for 504 loans must 
contribute 10 percent as a form of down payment. However, if 
their loan involves a limited purpose property, such as bowling 
alley, dairy farm, or doctor's office, they must contribute an 
extra 5 percent, a total of 15 percent down. And everyday 
businesses on main street like these are unfairly burdened with 
this extra equity requirement that is based on outdated, 
inaccurate assumptions that these kinds of businesses pose a 
greater risk to the program. So most of the loans in these 
affected industries, like bowling alleys, hospitals, and 
wineries, perform better on average than the entire 504 
portfolio.
    So this bill will remove unnecessary burdens for 
entrepreneurs who are seeking loans for these special purpose 
buildings and will put them on equal footing with their peers. 
This change will support the countless small businesses at the 
center of our communities and drive the economy. And it is time 
to bring parity back to main street.
    So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5763. And I 
yield back.
    And I now recognize the bill's cosponsor, Representative 
Simon from the great state of California for her remarks.
    Ms. SIMON. It is Simon. But I really like----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Simon.
    Ms. SIMON. But I like Simone. It sounds a lot more 
dignified.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. She is my friend. I was just checking 
her out. Thank you.
    Ms. SIMON. Simone gives it a little French flair. My family 
is from Louisiana, sir.
    Thank you so much. And it has been an honor to work with 
you on this bill together, you and I, championing this bill and 
others. It has been a real honor. And I want to thank our 
Ranking Member Velazquez for really lifting up the freshman 
Members of this Committee to ensure that we are a part of this 
legislative process full scale.
    The Main Street Parity Act is a simple way to support a 
broad range of small businesses in this country, not just the 
ones with standard commercial property. So right now, 
businesses in my district and in districts across the country 
operate in what is called a special purpose property and they 
are being penalized simply for having unique construction or 
building needs. You referenced bowling alleys, and you are 
absolutely right. These include places, not just bowling 
alleys, but car washes and marinas and funeral homes and 
recreation centers. These are the kind of small businesses in 
our community that serve local families, that create real jobs, 
and keep our communities running.
    The Main Street Parity Act lowers the equity requirement 
for these borrowers to the same 10 percent required for 
everyone else. This is definitely a commonsense bill that 
supports small business owners throughout the country. This 
bill is a simple fix. It is nonpartisan and it really does what 
our constituents have asked us to do, making small business 
work on main street in rural and in urban communities 
throughout this country. It is about promoting fair, inclusive 
economic growth and recognizing that opportunity should not 
depend on something as small as the type of building your 
business happens to own or run in.
    I urge all of my colleagues today to support the Main 
Street Parity Act and ensure fair capital access across all 
small business industries in our great nation.
    Thank you, sir, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I thank Congressman Simon for that.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    I now recognize the Ranking Member to speak on the bill.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I support H.R. 
5763. This bill makes important adjustments to improve SBA 504 
CDC program. I applaud Chairman Williams and Representative 
Simon for their leadership on this issue.
    The 504 CDC program has long supported small businesses in 
accessing capital for the development of major fixed assets, 
ensuring that these businesses have the resources they need to 
be successful and support thousands of jobs across the country. 
As part of the 504 CDC program, loans are guaranteed for so-
called special use properties, like bowling alleys, car washes, 
and marinas. Since the special use designation was created in 
1996, businesses developing these properties have been required 
to pay a special use penalty when accessing 504 CDC loans. The 
additional equity requirement was put in place by Congress 
because of the belief that these special use properties will be 
challenging to repurpose, shrinking the market pool of 
potential buyers and making them more difficult to sell, 
thereby posing a higher risk to the SBA loan portfolio if one 
of these businesses ever faced financial hardship and needed to 
be sold.
    However, in almost 30 years since the designation was 
created and the penalty was put in place, many of these 
properties have been successfully repurposed for alternative 
uses. More importantly, the shut-off rate since that time is 
substantially similar to standard 504 CDC loans, demonstrating 
that this loan poses no greater risk than standard loans. 
Therefore, it is time to remove the special use penalty and 
lower the equity barrier these properties face when accessing 
capital through the 504 CDC program.
    This bill reduces the minimum equity requirement for 
special use property to at least 10 percent, in line with the 
requirement for standard loans under the 504 CDC program. It 
also maintains the discretionary authority to require higher 
equity requirements of the borrower if the CDC so chooses.
    I want to thank my Republican colleagues for their 
collaboration on H.R. 5788, which we are also discussing, that 
increases the SBA reporting requirements to Congress for 504 
CDC loans, including for special use properties, so that we can 
continue to monitor the changes we are making in this bill in 
the future. This bill is supported by the National Association 
of Development Companies.
    I urge my colleagues to support the bill and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    And does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Okay. Seeing none, the question now occurs on favorably 
reporting H.R. 5763.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. H.R. 5763 is 
agreed to.
    Ms. KING-HINDS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to request a 
recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested. A 
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and 
House rule XI, further proceedings on this bill are postponed.
    H.R. 5788
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5788, the 
504 Program Risk Oversight Act, introduced by Representative 
Tran and Patronis. The clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 5788, a bill----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 5788 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Representative Tran 
from the great state of California for a statement on the bill.
    Mr. TRAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to 
discuss an essential piece of legislation today, the 504 
Program Risk Oversight Act. The 504 Program Risk Oversight Act 
would require the SBA to conduct an annual risk assessment of 
the 504 CDC program and provide Congress with a report 
containing the results by December 1st each year.
    The 504 Loan Program is SBA's premier economic development 
program providing low-cost, fixed-rate capital to help small 
businesses expand. Since its inception in 1986, the program has 
provided approximately 400 billion in total project financing 
and created over 3.3 million jobs. In California, that 
translates to 95 billion in total capital and the creation of 
over 715,000 good paying jobs.
    The SBA's 504 program is central to long-term business 
growth and competitiveness for many small business owners. 
However, as small business grow and take on larger and more 
complex projects, I have heard from my constituents that the 
limitation in SBA's 504 financing imposes unnecessary 
constraints on the organic and profitable growth of their 
business. Many times I have heard that a limitation they faced 
was when their financing needs were more than what the SBA 
could lend due to the loan limits. That is why I support 
increasing the maximum loan size for 504 to allow the program 
to have a bigger impact and adjust the loan limits which have 
not been changed since 2010. However, it is also important to 
ensure program performance remains a top priority and the 504 
program stays healthy for its long-term availability to small 
businesses.
    Currently, SBA is not required to conduct an annual 
portfolio risk analysis of the 504 program and provide Congress 
with a detailed report containing the results. This bipartisan 
bill will address the problem and help more Americans launch 
and grow small businesses by improving oversight and risk 
assessment of the 504 program. Transparent data is the 
cornerstone of a productive partnership between the SBA, 
Congress, and the industry and the work we do to modernize the 
504 loan limit for all borrowers while keeping the program 
healthy.
    I am proud to lead this bill and I want to thank my 
colleague Representative Jimmy Patronis for his partnership in 
co-leading this important piece of legislation with me.
    I urge my colleagues to support this important bipartisan 
bill. Thank you and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Patronis from the great 
state of Florida for a statement on the bill.
    Mr. PATRONIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate my 
colleague Congressman Tran's work on this good bill. I am 
pleased also to be a original cosponsor on this legislation.
    Transparency and responsible government is key to an 
effective government. This bill is an example of just that. As 
a former CFO of the State of Florida, I was responsible for 
overseeing the state's investments, especially in the 
retirement space. We must ensure that the taxpayers' dollars 
are being used effectively and not set on fire. This bill will 
make sure that there is always risk analysis being done on 504 
program activities.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any of the Members who wish to be recognized for 
a statement on the bill?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me start off by 
thanking Representatives Tran and Patronis for working together 
on a bipartisan basis to introduce this important bill. 
Information and transparency are central to ensuring the proper 
operation and functioning of the SBA lending programs, 
including the 504 CDC program. And this bill will help our 
Committee carry out our oversight responsibility.
    For months I have investigated and warned about the rising 
default levels in the SBA other main lending program, the 
flagship 7(a) program. Federal law requires the SBA Office of 
Credit Risk Management to conduct an annual portfolio risk 
analysis of the 7(a) program and provide Congress with a 
detailed report of the results. It is this report that has 
helped our Committee examine the 7(a) program's rising defaults 
and tailor our actions accordingly. The report provides 
detailed information on the program's overall risks set forth 
by industry concentration, risks created by individual lenders, 
enforcement actions that have been taken, and other important 
data points.
    Unfortunately, a similar statutory requirement does not 
exist for the 504 CDC program. H.R. 5788 will fix that by 
compelling the SBA to conduct an annual risk analysis of the 
504 CDC program and provide Congress with the results tailored 
to meet the 504 CDC program's unique features. This bill will 
require the SBA to provide many of the same data points on the 
504 CDC program as it is currently providing us on the 7(a) 
program.
    Let me be clear, loan defaults do not currently seem to be 
a concern in the 504 CDC program. Publicly available 
information demonstrate responsible operation of the program, 
but this bill will give us information we need to monitor the 
program now and in the future so its zero subsidy requirement 
is maintained.
    Finally, H.R. 5788 will require that the 504 CDC risk 
report also be posted on the SBA website and made available to 
the public. H.R. 5788 is supported by the National Association 
of Development Companies.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back, and thank 
you.
    And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    The SBA's 504 loan program plays a crucial role in 
financing fixed assets for small businesses through community-
based partners. While these loans help local small businesses 
grow, there is a clear lack of reporting on the health and risk 
within the 504 portfolio. So as Americans and policymakers need 
a clear timely information on the program to ensure that 
taxpayer dollars are protected, we need to know that the 
program is sustainable and effective for small businesses 
nationwide.
    The 504 Program Risk Oversight Act ensures that Congress 
can carry out its constitutional duty of oversight by requiring 
annual data-driven reports from the SBA on the health of the 
504 loan program. By enhancing transparency and insight, this 
legislation will help Congress identify and mitigate risk 
early, strengthening the long-term viability of the 504 loan 
program and ensuring continued support for American 
entrepreneurs.
    So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5788, and I 
yield back.
    Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Okay. Seeing none, the question is now on favorably 
reporting H.R. 5788 to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 5788 
is agreed to.
    Mr. PATRONIS. Mr. Chairman?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes.
    Mr. PATRONIS. I would like to request a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. We have got a recorded vote has 
been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. And pursuant to 
Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further proceedings on 
this bill are postponed.
    H.R. 3496
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 3496, 
Northern Mariana Island Small Business Access Act, introduced 
by Delegate King-Hinds and cosponsored by Representative 
Conaway. And the clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 3496, a bill to amend the Small Business--
--
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 3496 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    The bill sponsor Delegate King-Hinds has an amendment in 
the nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has been 
distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
    The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 
34----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is 
considered as read and the substitute will be considered as a 
base text for the purpose of further amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Delegate King-Hinds 
from the Great Northern Mariana Islands, for a statement on the 
bill and the amendment.
    Ms. KING-HINDS. Thank you, Chairman Williams and Ranking 
Member Velazquez, for agreeing to include my bill, H.R. 3496, 
the Northern Mariana Islands Small Business Access Act, in 
today's markup. H.R. 3496 would include my district, the 
Northern Mariana Islands, in the Small Business 
Administration's Microloan Program. The Microloan Program 
issues loans of $50,000 or less at low interest rates to help 
small businesses that may be unable to access capital 
elsewhere, grow their businesses, or create jobs.
    Since the program became operational in 1992, it has issued 
over 69,000 loans totaling over 900 million and supported over 
250,000 American jobs. Despite the program's impressive impact 
for Americans across the country, the Northern Mariana Islands 
is the only state or territory not explicitly included under 
the law. This bill would simply add the CNMI to be eligible for 
the program alongside every other territory.
    I thank my co-lead on the bill, Representative Conaway, for 
his best support and Congressman Cisneros for cosponsoring this 
legislation as well. Again, my bill simply adds my district to 
the Microloan Program that is already available to all other 
Americans. I urge my colleagues to support this bipartisan, 
commonsense, no-cost bill.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Conaway from the great state 
of New Jersey for a statement on the bill and the amendment.
    Mr. CONAWAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to echo 
support for H.R. 3496, the Northern Mariana Island Small 
Business Access Act, along with my colleague, Congresswoman 
King-Hinds.
    As has been said, the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana 
Islands, you know, I don't say that very often, Northern 
Mariana Islands is one of the six territories in the U.S. and, 
despite its status as a territory, the Northern Mariana Islands 
have been excluded from certain small business programs. This 
is important legislation that would ensure that there are 
expanded access to SBA's Microloan Program to small businesses 
on the Northern Mariana Islands.
    As you know, access to capital is vital for success and 
stability of small businesses. The SBA's Microloan Program is 
designed to assist women, low-income persons, veterans, 
minority entrepreneurs, and small business owners. And said 
loans can be used for a myriad of purposes, including working 
capital, inventory, supplies, furniture, fixtures, machinery, 
and equipment. Ensuring that the Northern Mariana Islands has 
better access to this important SBA program is very important 
and I urge all of my colleagues to support this important piece 
of legislation.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlemen yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill and the amendment.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to express 
my support for H.R. 3496, as amended. I commend Delegate King-
Hinds and Dr. Conaway for reintroducing the bill we have worked 
on for several years now.
    The Northern Mariana Islands Small Business Access Act is a 
straightforward but important bill that expands access to the 
SBA Microloan Program to small businesses in the Commonwealth 
of the Northern Mariana Islands. The program has been hugely 
successful.
    With that said, small businesses in the Northern Mariana 
Islands face unique challenges as geographic isolation leads to 
higher costs for goods and services, and their economy is 
heavily reliant on tourism, which can ebb and flow with economy 
and natural disaster. Having access to affordable credit gives 
small businesses the ability to weather the storms and economic 
uncertainty and fully prepare for the next opportunity.
    I worked to ensure the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana 
Islands had access to the Microloan Program as part of a more 
comprehensive bill to improve the Microloan Program. Despite 
passing the House, that bill was not considered in the Senate. 
While I would prefer to handle this issue in a more complete 
review of the program to make much needed improvements, I am 
willing to set aside those concerns today to ensure that small 
business owners in CNMI have access to the SBA Macro Loan 
program, and I urge my colleagues to support this bipartisan 
measure.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back. Thank you.
    I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    The SBA Microloan Program offers entrepreneurs access to 
small dollar loans through intermediaries. By statute, the SBA 
portions Microloan Program funding to each state and territory 
except for the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands. This 
exclusion makes it more challenging for small businesses in the 
Northern Mariana Islands to access capital. And the Northern 
Mariana Island Small Business Access Act amends the Small 
Business Act to include the Northern Mariana Islands in the 
program's geographic coverage.
    Expanding microloan eligibility will spark 
entrepreneurship. It strengthens that local economy for all 
states and territories and further assisting constituents of 
our colleague, Delegate King-Hinds, to access opportunities to 
grow.
    I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 3496, and I yield 
back.
    Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Seeing none, the question now occurs on the adoption of the 
substitute amendment offered H.R. 3496 by Delegate King-Hinds.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, the 
amendment in the nature of a substitute H.R. 3496 is adopted.
    Okay. The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 3496, 
as amended, to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 
3496, as amended, is agreed to.
    Ms. KING-HINDS. Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose does the gentlelady 
seek recognition?
    Ms. KING-HINDS. I would like to request a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. A recorded vote has been 
requested. A roll call vote is ordered, and pursuant to 
Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further proceedings on 
this bill are postponed.
    H.R. 5764
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5764, AI 
for Main Street Act, introduced by Representatives Alford and 
Scholten. The clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 5764, bill to amend the Small Business----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 5764 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    The bill sponsor, Representative Alford, has an amendment 
in the nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has 
been distributed in advance. The clerk will report the 
amendment.
    The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 
57----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is 
considered as read and the substitute will be considered as 
base text for the purpose of further amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Representative Alford 
from the great state of Missouri, for a statement on the bill 
and the amendment.
    Mr. ALFORD. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, 
Ranking Member Velazquez, for holding this hearing today. It is 
so good to see everyone on both sides of the aisle.
    This Committee exists in Congress to champion main street, 
to ensure that the small businesses that employ about half of 
all Americans can continue to thrive. As we all know, the AI 
revolution is not coming. It is already here. And if any 
company from main street to wall street is not adapting, they 
will be left behind. This is why I was proud to introduce the 
AI for Main Street Act along with Congresswoman Scholten.
    This bill directs Small Business Development Centers to 
help small businesses evaluate and adopt artificial 
intelligence by providing guidance, training, and outreach. It 
builds on existing efforts, like America's SBDC AIU program. I 
urge all of my colleagues to support this important legislation 
to ensure that main street gets the counseling they need to 
survive and thrive during the AI era, which is not going away 
anytime soon.
    And with that I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Scholten from the great 
state of Michigan for a statement on the bill and the 
amendment.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I have been 
so proud to partner with Rep. Alford to lead the AI for Main 
Street Act.
    He said it so well and this Committee has recognized the 
absolute revolutionary power that AI can have for so many of 
our small business owners. Yet far too many don't know how to 
access its power in a responsible way. This bill will help 
small businesses get quality guidance on how to adopt 
artificial intelligence into their operations.
    At a time when AI tools are becoming more accessible, but 
also more complex, small business owners need trusted local 
resources to help them navigate this new terrain. We have seen 
firsthand in our district how cutting-edge AI help from Small 
Business Development Centers can be just an absolute game-
changer, and that is where the AI for Main Street Act comes in. 
Our bill will direct Small Business Development Centers to 
provide guidance, training, and outreach to small business 
owners so they can evaluate the use of AI for their businesses 
and implement it according to their unique needs.
    SBDCs are already a lifeline for small businesses, places 
where they turn to for help, practical expertise, and real-
world solutions. By equipping these centers with AI-focused 
training, we are meeting small business owners where they are 
and giving them tools that they can put to work immediately.
    In our increasingly connected world, AI presents major 
changes to our economy and our way of life, from streamlining 
bookkeeping to managing inventory to improving customer 
outreach. AI can help small businesses save time, cut cost, 
stay competitive, but only if they have the knowledge how to 
use it effectively. That makes it all the more important that 
small businesses have the right resources. The AI for Main 
Street Act gives small businesses, again, the key word is 
trust, that trusted place to turn as they decide how to use AI 
to serve their goals.
    I urge my colleagues to support this bill, and I yield the 
remainder of my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill and the amendment.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am really pleased 
to support the AI for Main Street Act, which would allow the 
Small Business Development Centers to assist small business 
owners on how to evaluate artificial intelligence. I commend 
Mr. Alford and Ms. Scholten for working together on this 
bipartisan legislation.
    Among other things, AI has the potential to boost 
productivity, enhance customer service, and save costs, but 
small businesses must learn to use and manage AI tools 
effectively. If they don't, it can backfire and cause serious 
problems. We all heard the story of the Chevy dealership in 
Watsonville, California, that deployed an automated customer 
service chatbot that was manipulated into offering a Tahoe for 
a dollar and stating the deal is legally binding.
    As AI advances, so do the inherent risks. That is why it is 
important for SBA and its entrepreneurial ecosystem to help 
small businesses make the most of this technology. And it also 
makes sense to further empower the national network of SBDCs to 
guide and train small businesses for the future. I urge my 
colleagues to vote yes.
    I yield back my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back, and thank 
you.
    And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    Evolving artificial intelligence tools are transforming the 
business world and reshaping how entrepreneurs and small 
businesses operate and compete. While larger corporations are 
already harnessing new technologies, many small businesses are 
struggling to help keep up due to limited resources, lack of 
training, and concerns about cybersecurity. But the AI for Main 
Street Act addresses this gap by directing the SBA Small 
Business Development Centers to provide training, coaching, and 
ongoing support for integrating AI responsibility into small 
business.
    SBDCs are a crucial public-private partnership that operate 
in every state to assist all small businesses, whether they are 
just starting or fully established. Ensuring that these 
resource partners can provide AI education will give small 
businesses the proper tools and safeguards to compete in 
today's economy. As AI becomes an integral driver of 
productivity and competitiveness across the economy, small 
businesses must not be left behind. Technology won't wait for 
small business to catch up and Congress must help bridge that 
gap to help close the innovation divide.
    I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5764, and I yield 
back.
    Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Okay. Seeing none, the question now occurs in the adoption 
of the substitute amendment offered to H.R. 5764 by Mr. Alford.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and the 
amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 5764 is 
adopted.
    The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 5764, as 
amended, to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    The opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 5764, 
as amended, is agreed to
    Mr. ALFORD. Mr. Chair?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. For what purpose does the gentleman seek 
recognition?
    Mr. ALFORD. I request a recorded vote, please.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested. A 
roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and 
House rule XI, further proceedings on the bill are postponed.
    H.R. 5784
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5784, the 
Artificial Intelligence Wisdom for Innovative Small 
Enterprises, or AI WISE Act, introduced by Representatives 
Scholten and Downing. And the clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 5784, a bill to amend the Small Business 
Act----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 5784 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Representative Scholten 
from the great state of Michigan, for a statement on the bill.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. You are 
sensing a theme today. And I am so glad that this Committee 
takes the inclusion and implementation of AI in the small 
business arena seriously. It is absolutely critical.
    As we know, artificial intelligence is rapidly shaping 
industries across the globe. But small businesses, who are the 
backbone of our economy, often struggle to keep up with fast-
paced technological change. My--oops, sorry, hold on. I think I 
got the wrong--this is the AI for main street. Sorry, I was 
like that sounds really familiar. AI WISE. We can vote on that 
one now, too. We are on AI for main street--we are on AI WISE. 
We are on AI WISE. Yes. Okay, sorry. Apologies. This is when 
you get all these great AI bills.
    The AI WISE Act requires the SBA to create AI literacy 
resources tailored specifically to small businesses. Through 
the SBA's e-learning platform, entrepreneurs and small business 
owners will be empowered with clear, actionable information on 
how to leverage AI in their operations, whether that is through 
automating tasks, improving customer service, or making smarter 
decisions using data.
    According to the U.S. Census Bureau, nearly one in four 
businesses do not know whether they will use AI in production 
within the next 6 months. They just don't know if it is going 
to be a part of their business or not. That is untenable in a 
rapidly evolving technological landscape where small businesses 
cannot afford to be left behind. This bill will level the 
technological playing field for small businesses, providing 
them the tools they need to thrive in an ever-changing global 
economy.
    AI isn't just for the tech giants. It is for everyone, 
especially small businesses. Whether we are talking about a 
local bakery, a landscaping company, or a digital startup, AI 
has the potential to increase productivity, reduce costs, and 
open up new growth opportunities. The AI WISE Act gives our 
small businesses the knowledge they need to embrace AI and 
remain the top job creators in our country.
    I want to express my gratitude to Congressman Downing for 
joining me in leading this bill. And I ask unanimous consent to 
insert into the record letters of support for the AI WISE Act 
from Intuit and OpenAI. I urge all of my colleagues to support 
the AI WISE Act. The future of our economy depends on helping 
small businesses harness the power of emerging technologies 
like AI and this bill will help make that a reality.
    I yield the remainder of my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, we will accept your 
papers.
    I now recognize Representative Downing from the great state 
of Montana for a statement on the bill.
    Mr. DOWNING. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to my 
colleague, Representative Scholten, for the work on this bill.
    You know, over the course of the last several years, we 
have seen incredible advancements in the development of AI 
technology. AI capabilities, like machine learning, language 
processing, these will play a critical role in our economy 
moving forward. Businesses across our country are rapidly 
incorporating AI to streamline key operations, like workforce 
recruitment, marketing, strategy development. However, like any 
emerging technology, businesses with substantial and stable 
access to capital tend to be better positioned for technology 
adoption and dealing with its ramifications. Small businesses, 
on the other hand, including businesses in rural communities 
like in my home district of central and eastern Montana, often 
lack the resources and information needed to facilitate 
technology adoption.
    Now, according to a 2025 report from the U.S. Chamber of 
Commerce, 59 percent of Montana small businesses have adopted 
AI into their operations. While this figure is significant, it 
pales in comparison to the near universal adoption of AI that 
we have seen with Fortune 500 companies. This is why I am proud 
to co-lead H.R. 5784, the AI WISE Act, with my colleague 
Representative Scholten.
    The AI WISE Act directs SBA to establish educational 
resources on AI for small businesses through its online 
learning program. In doing so, this legislation seeks to 
provide small businesses with the technical and practical 
knowledge needed in order to best navigate AI adoption.
    To assemble this information, this legislation directs the 
SBA to work in coordination with the National Institute for 
Standards and Technology, NIST, as well as an advisory working 
group of public and private sector partners. The scope of this 
new AI educational material will include resources for small 
businesses on how AI models work, best practices for 
coordinating with third-party providers of AI tools, and how 
businesses can identify tasks that AI can reliably and 
effectively perform.
    I would like to again thank my colleague Representative 
Scholten for co-leading this legislation with me. The AI WISE 
Act will ensure SBA provides small businesses with the 
information that they will need to most effectively utilize AI 
to bolster their business.
    I urge all my colleagues to support this legislation, and, 
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any of the Members who wish to be recognized for 
a statement on the bill?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to 
support legislation to create artificial intelligence literacy 
resources at the SBA and the resource partners. I thank Ms. 
Scholten and Mr. Downing and the numerous AI and small business 
stakeholders for working with me to develop this bill over the 
last 2 years.
    I has captured the imagination, excitement, and anxiety of 
Main Street America and Congress since the launch of ChatGPT 
just 2 years ago. While AI has the potential to make small 
businesses more efficient and competitive, it also has risks 
associated with its use. The AI WISE Act will empower America's 
small businesses with the skill needed to evaluate and adopt AI 
in this challenging landscape. It requires the SBA to create an 
online AI literacy resource for small businesses and allow 
their resource partners to build upon it with specialized and 
localized resources to better serve their communities. As AI 
revolutionizes our way of life, it is critical to ensure small 
businesses are not left behind by the larger firms better 
equipped to adopt the technology.
    With that, I urge my colleagues to vote yes, and I yield 
back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back. Thank you.
    And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    As we talked about today, nearly half of small businesses 
are using the AI in some form, and more are exploring ways they 
could make their businesses more efficient. As AI adoption 
accelerates, it is critical that small businesses have the 
tools and knowledge to stay competitive and thrive in the free 
market. The AI WISE Act directs the SBA to establish 
educational resources and online learning tools to help small 
businesses understand the benefits and risks of integrating AI 
into their operations.
    This bill brings together the SBA, the National Institute 
of Standards and Technology, and AI leaders to leverage 
existing AI resources and develop educational tools that don't 
just focus on the potential risks. It includes information 
about how AI could enhance operations, customer service, and 
productivity across main street's businesses. The AI WISE Act 
puts the SBA at the forefront of streamlining information 
directly for the many small businesses that don't know where to 
access materials they need to fully scale their businesses 
while leveraging AI.
    I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5784, and I yield 
back.
    Now, does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Seeing none, the question is now on favorably reporting 
H.R. 5784 to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 5784 
is agreed to.
    Mr. DOWNING. Mr. Chair?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman is recognized.
    Mr. DOWNING. I request a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman requests, a recorded vote 
has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to 
Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further proceedings on the 
bill are postponed.
    H.R. 5778
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 5778, the 
Improving SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership Act, introduced 
by Representatives McIver and Bresnahan and Ranking Member 
Velazquez. The clerk will report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 5778, a bill to direct the administrator--
--
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 5778 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Representative McIver 
from the great state of New Jersey, for a statement on the 
bill.
    Mrs. MCIVER. Thank you so much, Chairman. And thank you to 
our Ranking Member for holding this markup today. I would like 
to speak in strong support of my bill, H.R. 5778, the Improving 
SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership Act, a bipartisan bill 
that I am proud to lead with my colleague, Congressman 
Bresnahan, there we go--sorry for butchering that--of 
Pennsylvania and Ranking Member Velazquez of New York.
    Employee ownership is one of the most powerful tools we 
have to help working people build real wealth and strengthen 
local economies. When employees become owners, whether through 
employee stock ownership plans or cooperatives, they share in 
the profits, have a voice in decision-making, and gain direct 
stake in the success of the business. These are concrete 
pathways for everyday people to obtain financial security and 
stable jobs and to increase community investment. We have seen 
it through data and through real-world stories. Programs like 
this help our communities and economy.
    Employee ownership has made a difference for people like 
Emilio in my district at the Urban Agriculture Cooperative in 
Newark, New Jersey. The Urban Agriculture Cooperative operates 
a food hub, distributing healthy New Jersey products through 
farmers markets and wholesale. Most recently, they provided 
high-quality, local-grown produce to families in need during 
the SNAP crisis. As a cooperative, like those my bill would 
further support, they help employees build retirement savings 
and keep businesses rooted in the neighborhoods they serve. 
Employee owners like Emilio give so much to their workplace and 
with this model, they get something positive in return.
    Yet for far too long, the Small Business Administration has 
not met its obligation to support these models. Despite the 
proven benefits of ESOPs and cooperatives, SBA lending 
programs, especially the flagship 7(a) program, have reached 
only a tiny fraction of employee-owned businesses. In fact, 
over the last several years, the SBA approved just five 7(a) 
loans for SOPs or ESOPs and fewer than 100 for cooperatives, 
serving only a silver of the thousands of employees--a sliver, 
excuse me, serving only a sliver of the thousands of employee-
owned businesses operating nationwide. That is not because the 
models don't work. It is because the federal government has not 
kept up with the growing demand of broad-based ownership.
    My bill changes that. The Improving SBA Engagement on 
Employee Ownership Act ensures that the SBA finally does its 
job to support employee-owned businesses. It requires the 
agency to show up consistently and at the highest levels in 
federal discussions and about employee ownership and 
cooperative development. It expands SBA outreach, especially 
through the SBIC program, so lenders, investors, and 
entrepreneurs understand how to use SBA tools to finance 
transitions to employee ownership. And it directs the SBA to 
finally start up the Small Business Employee Ownership and 
Cooperatives Promotion Program, I must need another cup of 
coffee, which Congress required 6 years ago, but has yet to be 
implemented.
    These are practical, commonsense steps that will help real 
people, the blue collar worker at a manufacturing plant trying 
to buy the business before it closes, the single mother working 
at a home care agency who wants to keep serving families in her 
community, or the young entrepreneur building a cooperative 
that offers good jobs and share prosperity for their neighbors. 
This bill helps them access capital, receiving technical 
assistance, and navigate the federal programs that exist to 
support them.
    Employee ownership is critical to worker dignity and shared 
success. It is about making sure workers are treated as 
partners, not just laborers, and building an economy that 
rewards hard work and not just wealth. I urge my colleagues to 
support this bipartisan effort by improving SBA's engagement 
with employee-owned businesses and cooperatives. We are 
protecting good jobs, ensuring working people have a fair shot 
at wealth. This is how we build a more inclusive economy for 
all.
    With that, Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Bresnahan from the great 
state of Pennsylvania for a statement on the bill.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So great to be 
back. And thank you to my colleague Rep. McIver for leading 
this important piece of legislation.
    ESOPs are a proven asset to help workers become successful 
partners in their businesses. When employees share in 
ownership, they share in achievement, creating a workplace that 
promotes personal investment and a group cooperation to grow a 
business successfully. That is why I am proud to co-lead the 
Improving SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership Act.
    This legislation will strengthen the Small Business 
Administration's ability to work with cooperative and employee-
owned businesses to enrich local economies and provide business 
owners with critical assistance to preserve jobs and promote 
broad-based ownership. I am looking forward to seeing this bill 
passed through committee, so we can continue to support the 
small businesses and strengthen their impact on our 
communities' economic stability.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I support H.R. 
5778, and I want to thank Representatives McIver and Bresnahan 
for their leadership on this issue.
    Employee-owned businesses are a valuable model that 
empowers workers and create strong American businesses. 
Employee-owned businesses, like ESOPs, and other common control 
enterprises, like co-ops, play a significant role in the U.S. 
economy. As of 2022, there were more than 5,500 ESOPs holding 
more than $1.8 trillion in assets and approximately 65,000 co-
ops generating more than $324 billion in revenue.
    These businesses need the backing of the products and 
technical training that SBA provides in order to reach their 
full potential. These businesses have had only limited access 
to the SBA products, including the flagship 7(a) loan program. 
Technical support for employee-owned businesses has also been 
limited. The SBA has acknowledged these shortcomings and during 
the Biden administration began to engage with ESOPs and co-ops 
more directly. But more needs to be done. This bill will build 
on the progress made by providing a framework for increasing 
engagement between the SBA and other executive branch agencies 
currently developing policies and regulations related to ESOPs 
and co-ops.
    I want to thank Representatives McIver and Bresnahan for 
working on this bipartisan legislation and I encourage my 
colleagues to support the bill. I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back, and thank 
you.
    And I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    For some entrepreneurs, employee ownership and cooperative 
business models can offer opportunities to empower their 
employees and share the success of the company. The Improving 
SBA Engagement on Employee Ownership Act requires the SBA to 
finally implement requirements passed in the fiscal year 2019 
NDAA to offer information and technical assistance on employee 
ownership. It also gives the SBA a seat at the table where 
other agencies are discussing these types of business models.
    I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 5778, and I yield 
back.
    Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Seeing none, the question is now on favorably reporting 
H.R. 5778 to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 5778 
is agreed to.
    Mr. BRESNAHAN. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The gentlemen asks for recorded 
votes. It has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. 
Pursuant to Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further 
proceedings on the bill are postponed.
    H.R. 4305
    The Committee now moves to consideration of H.R. 4305, 
Destroying Unnecessary, Misaligned, and Prohibitive Red Tape 
Act of 2025, or the DUMP Red Tape Act, introduced by the 
Representative Wied. The clerk report the bill.
    The CLERK. H.R. 4305, a bill to direct the chief----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, H.R. 4305 is 
considered as read and open for amendment.
    The bill sponsor, Representative Wied, has an amendment in 
the nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has been 
distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.
    The CLERK. Amendment in the nature of a substitute to 
H.R.----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is 
considered as read and the substitute will be considered in 
base text for the purpose of further amendment.
    I now recognize the bill's sponsor, Representative Wied 
from the great state of Wisconsin, for a statement on the bill 
and the amendment.
    Mr. WEID. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After suffering through 
4 years of regulatory onslaught by the Biden administration, 
totaling nearly 1.8 trillion in new costs and requiring an 
additional 360 million hours to comply with these new 
regulations, small businesses are desperate for regulatory 
relief. In response, earlier this year, the Small Business 
Administration created the Red Tape Hotline under its Office of 
Advocacy. This hotline gives small businesses a seat at the 
table to highlight the prohibitive red tape regulations from 
across federal agencies that hurt their ability to grow and 
compete.
    My bill, H.R. 4305, the Destroying Unnecessary, Misaligned, 
and Prohibitive Red Tape Act, codifies the SBA's Red Tape 
Hotline. It also requires annual reports to Congress from the 
Office of Advocacy detailing the most burdensome regulations 
for small business owners and what the steps the SBA has taken 
to advocate on their behalf. This bill is a commonsense way to 
gather input directly from the people most harmed by 
overregulation. I urge all of my colleagues to support this 
important piece of legislation and stand with America's small 
businesses.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    Mr. MEUSER. Mr. Chairman?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Representative Meuser, Pennsylvania, 
recognized.
    Mr. MEUSER. May I be recognized? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. H.R. 4305, the DUMP Red Tape Act, I commend my 
colleague, Mr. Wied, for introducing. I do think, however, it 
should have been named the DUMP Blue Tape Act.
    Anyway, we would require--it requires the SBA Office of 
Advocacy to codify the Red Tape Hotline and submit an annual 
report to Congress and Administrator Loeffler. This will 
provide small businesses with an outlet to report arbitrary and 
unnecessary regulations, as stated, directly to Congress and 
the public.
    Small businesses are the backbone of the U.S. economy, 
generating 44 percent of economic activity and employing over 
60 percent of the workforce. Yet under the Biden 
administration, small businesses were forced to navigate a 
complex regulatory landscape, resulting in $1.7 trillion in new 
regulatory costs and over 300 million hours of paperwork. These 
burdens ultimately fell on small businesses, limiting their 
ability to innovate, grow, and compete.
    So the Red Tape Hotline demonstrates that the Trump 
administration and Republicans want to hear directly from small 
businesses about the regulatory challenge they are facing. 
Unlike the Biden administration, we will continue delivering 
for small businesses by increasing transparency, promoting pro-
growth policies, and streamlining communications.
    I urge my colleagues to support the bill, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    Seeing none, I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
to speak on the bill and the amendment.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to express 
my opposition to H.R. 4305. While this bill is less 
objectionable than other anti-regulatory bills we have 
considered this Congress, it is simply not necessary.
    To begin with, a deregulatory hotline already exists on 
regulations.gov. Establishing another creates duplication and 
drains SBA resources.
    More concerning the proposal hasn't been vetted properly. 
In the first 100-day report, Advocacy indicated there were 96 
small business submissions. Yet despite repeated requests for 
more detailed information, Advocacy has failed to provide any 
specific information about this request. We have no way of 
knowing if the submissions are related to rules. They could 
have easily been about tariffs or unpaid invoices to 
contractors. That is why I cannot support it. We have no 
information and the bill is more slogan than substance, 
ignoring other federal actions that are harming small 
businesses.
    We have heard testimony that small businesses are not 
talking about regulations. It ranks near the bottom of their 
list of concerns. Inflation, tariffs, and finding good 
employees are some of the top challenges facing small 
businesses. Take a walk down main street and you will hear the 
same concern from small business owners up and down the block. 
The uncertainty and rising costs tied to the Trump tariffs are 
crushing their small businesses, plain and simple.
    And to the best of my knowledge, Advocacy has not weighed 
in with the administration, which raises concerns over their 
lack of independence from the administration. I recall the many 
times the administrator from the Biden administration came here 
to testify and, you know, she was castigated, asking her if she 
talked to Joe Biden, the President, about the impact of taxes 
on them. Well, now my question is, is the administrator 
discussing with Donald Trump the impact that tariffs is having 
on small businesses. Or healthcare subsidy expirations, how 
will that impact small businesses?
    Instead of looking for ways to address inflation, tariffs, 
and labor shortages, this bill is narrowly drafted to focus on 
rolling back rules that protect our health, environment, and 
safety. Turning to the specifics, the bill lacks adequate 
reporting mechanisms to identify who is making the submissions, 
leaving it vulnerable to abuse. Advocacy has come under fire 
for doing the bidding of big businesses in the past, and they 
are not reporting a requirement in this bill to distinguish 
between a small business, trade association, or law firm. And 
the bill focuses only on the cost of regulations, not the 
benefits, which is only one-half of the equation.
    We need to look at both sides of the ledger, and by doing 
so, we will see that the benefits of the rule greatly outweigh 
the costs. For this reason, I plan to oppose the bill.
    With that said, if we can get the specific information from 
Advocacy as to what small businesses are actually submitting on 
the hotline and a better understanding of the mechanics of the 
hotline to ensure independence between SBA and Advocacy, I may 
be then willing to work with you on this bill.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    Are there any other Members who wish to be recognized for a 
statement on the bill?
    Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Chair?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Recognized.
    Mr. STAUBER. Thank you very much. I support this bill. I 
think the intentions are pure.
    And whenever we have had witnesses in this Committee, we 
have asked how many of you want more bureaucrat issues, more 
regulations, more rules, more redundancy, more impact on small 
businesses? Every one of them said the federal government, stay 
off our backs, get out of our pockets, let us live the American 
dream and work in our communities. Mr. Wied understands that in 
his town of Wisconsin. I understand that in northern Minnesota. 
This bill is a very good bill. It is a good start to make sure 
that they have the opportunity to succeed.
    And the gentlelady, the Ranker, talks about, you know, 
asking small businesses beforehand. Well, I say the 
Unaffordable Care Act, you never ask small businesses. They are 
damaged because of that.
    Mr. Wied, this is a very good piece of legislation and I 
support it. I commend you for bringing it up. This is what the 
small business is for, to make sure that the men and women 
across this nation who risk everything to succeed.
    This is one of those pieces of legislation that I am in 
favor of, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize myself to speak in support of this 
legislation.
    H.R. 4305, the DUMP Red Tape Act, codifies the Red Tape 
Hotline launched by the SBA Office of Advocacy on March 10, 
2025. The hotline gives small businesses a direct line to SBA 
Advocacy to report burdensome regulations that are holding them 
back and further enhances our ability to combat job-crushing 
red tape by requiring the Office of Advocacy to bring this 
feedback straight to Congress. And by empowering small business 
to speak up to federal agencies accountable, this bill will 
strengthen our commitment to pro-growth, pro-innovation 
economy. It is necessary to get the government out of the way 
so that our small business owners can do what they do best.
    I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H.R. 4305, and I yield 
back.
    Now, does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Mr. CISNEROS. Mr. Chairman?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So moved. You are recognized.
    Mr. CISNEROS. I have an amendment at the desk.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. There is an amendment at the desk. 
We will briefly pause while staff distributes the amendment.
    Okay. The clerk will report the amendment.
    The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a 
substitute to H.R. 43----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is 
considered as read.
    And I now recognize the Representative Cisneros for 5 
minutes on the amendment.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank 
you and the Ranking Member on the great bipartisan work you 
have done today on so many of these amendments.
    My amendment would build on the ability of small businesses 
and entities to not only report on potentially erroneous and 
burdensome regulations, but to report rules that help safeguard 
small business interests and competition. My amendment also 
expands the hotline to better listen to small business concerns 
on other government actions that impact them, such as tariffs, 
healthcare, and immigration enforcement.
    What I hear the most from small businesses is that they 
need relief from tariffs and the uncertainty around them. If we 
truly want to support small businesses, we need to provide them 
with an avenue to express their grievances and truly hear what 
they need and to act on it. Some Members of this Committee plug 
their ears and close their eyes when tariffs are mentioned. But 
that is what small businesses are overwhelmingly sharing as 
their main concern right now. If the Office of Advocacy won't 
advocate for small businesses regarding tariffs, who else in 
our federal government will? Where can small businesses share 
their concerns?
    The Office of Advocacy is meant to advocate for small 
businesses, period. Assertions about their limitations are a 
fabrication of this administration and a byproduct of Project 
2025. If you truly believe that Advocacy cannot advocate 
against policies like tariffs that negatively impact small 
businesses, then I am open to working with you to expand the 
mandate to ensure small businesses have a voice in government 
that advances their views and concerns before Congress, the 
White House, across federal agencies, and the courts, as 
appropriate.
    The unfortunate thing about this hotline is that we have 
not had anyone from the Office of Advocacy come to publicly 
testify before this Committee, much less share what small 
businesses have raised so far. So my amendment would require 
more transparency from the Advocacy through the information it 
needs to report to Congress. My amendment would do this by 
ensuring Advocacy provides Congress information on all the 
government actions small businesses are raising, the 
recommendations for the actions to minimize those burdens, a 
summary of actions taken by Advocacy, and a type of entity that 
is making no submissions.
    We all want to unleash the innovations and level the 
playing field for our small businesses. I hope my colleagues 
across the aisle will join me in supporting my amendment to 
ensure that our small businesses truly have their voices heard 
throughout the federal government.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Is there further debate on the amendment?
    Mr. Wied, you are recognized.
    Mr. WEID. I noticed you even want to change the name of our 
bill from DUMP Red Tape Act to Cut the Burden, Keep the 
Benefits. Translation: Keep the red tape. But here is the 
thing. Small businesses don't benefit from more bureaucracy. 
They benefit when we actually cut the red tape holding them 
back, which is exactly what my bill does.
    This amendment tries to capture all federal actions, 
including presidential actions, but that is far beyond the 
scope of the SBA statutory mission. The SBA's Office of 
Advocacy was created to be the voice of small businesses in the 
regulatory process, not a catch-all for every executive or 
presidential action. If you expand the scope of the Red Tape 
Hotline, you will drown out legitimate small business concerns 
in a sea of unrelated political disputes.
    Ironically, this amendment adds layers of bureaucracy by 
requiring SBA to track and report on presidential action, 
something outside its expertise. That means more paperwork, 
more delays, and fewer resources devoted to actually helping 
small businesses. Our bill is about streamlining, not expanding 
government paperwork.
    I urge my colleagues to vote no on this amendment.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Is there any further debate on the amendment?
    Okay. The Ranking Member?
    Mrs. MCIVER. Chairman?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes, ma'am.
    Mrs. MCIVER. I would like to yield some time to my 
colleague.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. And Mrs. McIver, you are recognized.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Ms. McIver, for yielding me my 
time--this time. Just to answer back, you know, to my colleague 
over there, this bill has no way of expanding red tape at all. 
It actually simply, I think, helps make your bill better by 
requiring the Small Business Association, the Office of 
Advocacy, to actually come to us and report and share what they 
are hearing from these small businesses, which only helps us be 
more impactful in helping support their small businesses.
    Really, that is simply all that we are asking. And we are 
asking that they, you know, kind of broaden their scope as to 
what, you know, as to what the small businesses can report. 
Right? Whether it is tariffs, healthcare, other issues, you 
know, collecting this information and then reporting what this 
information is, what are they gathering, and bringing that to 
us. That in no way increases the amount of red tape or anything 
that we are asking for. We are just asking them to report on 
what is being reported to them and sharing that information 
with us, which helps us better help the small businesses.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Is there any further debate on the amendment?
    Okay. Seeing none, the Ranking Member is now recognized to 
speak on the amendment.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I lend my support 
to the amendment being offered by my colleague, Mr. Cisneros.
    The amendment will make a number of improvements to the 
underlying bill. First, it strengthens the legislative text by 
refining the definitions and scope to better align with 
Advocacy's role and the requirements set forth in the 
Regulatory Flexibility Act. The gentleman said that this 
amendment is out of the scope of Advocacy. That is not true. So 
let me read the statute. ``The Office of Advocacy should also 
perform the following duties on a continuing basis: serve as a 
local point for the receipt of complaints, criticism, and 
suggestions concerning the policies and activities of the 
administration, including the current administration and any 
other federal agency which affects small businesses.''
    Second, the amendment allows small entities to weigh in on 
executive orders and other actions being taken by the 
administration, and, more importantly, requires Advocacy to 
report on the actions taken. This provision is particularly 
critical now as the Trump tariffs are generating widespread 
confusion and uncertainty and inflicting onerous burden on 
small businesses. You don't want to talk about tariffs and the 
impact that it is having on small businesses. You want to talk 
about regulations. But when you go and walk down the street and 
talk to small businesses, small farmers, they are all raising 
the issue of the impact of tariffs in their businesses. 
Surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, the Office of Advocacy 
has been eerily silent on this topic as well as this Committee.
    Finally, the amendment will strengthen the reporting 
requirements and rename the bill to the Cut the Burden, Keep 
the Benefits Act. Advocacy will be required to report on the 
benefits of the rules, which must always outweigh the causes. 
Mr. Cisneros is offering a commonsense amendment. I urge all my 
colleagues to support this amendment.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize myself to speak on the amendment.
    After only 50 days of opening the hotline earlier this 
year, the SBA Advocacy received 96 red tape hotline inquiries 
from small businesses across the country. Small businesses have 
been taking advantage of the hotline and Congress needs to 
ensure stability by codifying the hotline. We need to focus on 
how we can provide main street with the best avenues to reach 
regulatory relief, and that is through the original amendment 
in the nature of a substitute provided by Representative Wied.
    I urge my colleagues to vote no on this legislation. Vote 
no on the amendment on this legislation.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Chair?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. You know, you said just now that there has 
been 96 submissions. Since our side has not been given the 
opportunity to look at those submissions, have you seen those 
submissions? Are they related to regulation?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. We can--I mean, what we can--we can find 
out. I have not seen them. No. Okay?
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. I rest of my case.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. All right.
    The question now occurs on the amendment offered by 
Representative Cisneros.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the noes have it.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. A recorded vote has been requested and a 
roll call vote is ordered, so further proceedings on the 
amendment are postponed.
    Does anyone wish to offer an amendment?
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Mr. Chair?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. There is amendment.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yes. Mr. Chair, sorry, I have an amendment at 
the desk.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Oh, so moved. There is an amendment at 
the desk. We will briefly pause while staff distributes the 
amendment.
    Okay. The clerk will report the amendment.
    The CLERK. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a 
substitute to H.R. 4305, offered by----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Without objection, the amendment is 
considered as read.
    And I now recognize Representative Scholten for 5 minutes 
on the amendment.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the best parts 
of the Small Business Committee is how often Democrats and 
Republicans can come together to solve real problems facing 
main street. Small business owners don't cut corners to get 
results and, most of the time, neither do Members of this 
Committee. Unfortunately, with the DUMP Red Tape Act, Committee 
Republicans have rushed a flawed bill to solve a problem we 
could be addressing on a bipartisan basis.
    Small businesses are the backbone of our economy. It has 
been said several times today. If there is no greater bedrock 
in this Committee, it is that. And we all agree that they need 
support in navigating the complex web of challenges that they 
face every day. Maintaining a hotline that will help small 
business owners report some of their most significant hurdles 
is a good idea. It is already in practice and something that 
Democrats and Republicans can continue to do in a bipartisan 
fashion.
    The problem with today's bill is that Committee Republicans 
are trying to codify a hotline where it seems that anyone, 
small business or not, can register a complaint. And that is 
because they get reported to Congress anonymously, and the 
complaint has to be about a specific regulation. So the real 
problem is individuals from lobbying firms, attorneys 
representing major businesses can register complaints here 
anonymously under the guise of being a small business. Large 
businesses themselves can come here and register these 
complaints anonymously. Is this really about helping small 
businesses or is this a suggestion box for billionaires?
    If we are going to spend taxpayer money on running this 
hotline, it is our job to make that hotline help real small 
businesses with real challenges. The DUMP Red Tape Act needs 
significant changes to meet that bar, and today I am offering 
an amendment to get us one step closer to legislation that is 
worthy of the small businesses in our districts.
    My amendment addresses a concern I hear from so many 
business owners in West Michigan. Running a business is 
challenging, and doing so in an unpredictable economic 
landscape is even more difficult. President Trump promised to 
lower prices starting on day one, but instead he has 
implemented a series of tariffs that have created chaos and 
real costs for entrepreneurs. As the cost of materials have 
jumped across the board, small businesses have borne the brunt 
of these policies. I know my Republican colleagues have heard 
it, too.
    As currently written, the hotline under the DUMP Red Tape 
Act permits submissions on burdensome rules and regulations, 
but it does not allow for submissions on executive actions like 
tariffs. My amendment to the DUMP Red Tape Act will allow small 
businesses to submit concerns to the hotline about executive 
orders and proclamations relating to tariffs. We should not be 
afraid to receive this feedback. We should not be limiting the 
uses of the hotline, especially when tariffs remain one of the 
biggest challenges small business owners deal with on a daily 
basis.
    The Trump administration has already set up a hotline that 
has received 96 submissions. Unfortunately, we do not know what 
these submissions are about, as the Ranking Member pointed out. 
They could very well be about tariffs, rules, or nonpayment of 
government contractors, not just burdensome regulations. This 
Committee and the people that we represent deserve to know what 
those submissions are about. If we are going to pass 
legislation to make this hotline permanent, we need to ensure 
that it can receive submissions accounting for all of the very 
real challenges of small business ownership. My amendment would 
help to do just that.
    I urge my colleagues to support this amendment. We want to 
make this hotline work and be a real tool for small businesses 
to connect and make real change.
    I yield back the remainder of my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    And is there further debate on the amendment?
    Mr. WEID. Yes.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Representative Wied.
    Mr. WEID. As a former small business owner for my entire 
lifetime up to this point, I would say the purpose of this bill 
is to give our hardworking small businesses a voice in, you 
know, exposing overbearing regulations that hurt our small 
businesses from growing.
    Tariffs are a matter of national trade and foreign policy 
overseen by Congress and the administration, not the SBA. 
Tariffs right now, they are used to protect American 
industries, enforce fair trade, and respond to global 
imbalances in trade. They are not red tape. They don't impose 
compliance paperwork or permitting delays that continue to hurt 
small businesses. Including presidential tariff actions, that 
would turn the hotline into a political complaint desk about 
trade policy. That undermines its credibility as a neutral, 
business-focused tool.
    Congress already has oversight mechanisms for tariffs and 
trade policy. Our bill avoids duplication by keeping the 
hotline focused on regulations. If every tariff proclamation is 
subject to hotline review, it signals to foreign competitors 
that U.S. trade policy is fragmented and negotiable. That 
weakens America's hand in trade negotiations and could harm the 
very small businesses the amendment claims to protect.
    I urge my colleagues to vote no on this amendment.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Is there further debate on the amendment?
    Mr. McGarvey is recognized.
    Mr. MCGARVEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield my time to 
Congresswoman Ms. Scholten.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Mr. Chairman, most small business owners 
don't necessarily know the difference between a regulation, a 
point of law, or the tariffs that are harming their small 
businesses, but they sure know what is impacting their bottom 
line. This Committee should not be afraid to receive feedback 
and, further, to know what is included in those 96 complaints 
that have already been received. This is a commonsense 
amendment that would open this up for small business owners to 
be able to have the freedom to share with this Committee how we 
can best help them.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Is there any further debate on the 
amendment?
    Mr. CISNEROS. Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Cisneros is recognized.
    Mr. CISNEROS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Look, I just want to 
address the issue we do need--the one thing that I hear from my 
small businesses in my district is just give us stability. I 
need stability. But when we have a President who makes a whim 
on a tariff and raises them for Canada because he didn't like a 
commercial that he saw during the World Series, that is no 
stability there. Right? That is not what our small businesses 
are asking for, and they need to be able to kind of make that 
complaint and bring it forward. And that is something the 
Office of Advocacy should be reporting to us in Congress, so 
that we can help address these issues.
    But with that, we just want to make this bill better. Give 
the small businesses the opportunity to report what they are 
hearing and have the SBA come to us and tell us what they are 
hearing, which is, obviously, which is not happening now with 
the way this is working now.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    Is there further debate on the amendment?
    Okay. The Ranking Member is now recognized to speak on the 
amendment.
    Ms. VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I lend my 
support to the amendment offered by my colleague, Ms. Scholten.
    The amendment would allow small businesses to submit 
concerns about tariffs and require Advocacy to report on its 
action to limit the burden. The Office of Advocacy is the voice 
of small businesses. It is not limited only to complaints about 
regulations. It is open to anything that impacts small 
businesses. The 96 submissions to the advocacy hotline could 
have easily been about tariffs, but we don't know. The Chairman 
doesn't know. I just asked him. He hasn't seen any of the 
submissions. The administration didn't provide information to 
us. So if we are here passing legislation based on what we hear 
and what the SBA wants to tell us, but not to share the 
specific information, we need to do better by small businesses.
    Tariffs, not regulations, are crushing small businesses. 
Small businesses all across the country are shouldering the 
costs of the Trump tariffs. The cost of goods is rising 
exponentially, making it harder and hard for small businesses 
to do what they do best: create jobs, innovate, and flourish. 
Despite promises made by the Trump administration to lower 
costs on day one, President Trump's policies have inflicted 
pain on every sector of the small business economy.
    And where is the Office of Advocacy when small businesses 
are under siege? Nowhere to be found.
    I strongly support the amendment, which would allow us to 
get a better understanding of how many small businesses are 
contacting Advocacy about tariffs and see if Advocacy is 
advocating for them.
    I urge my colleagues to support this amendment, and I yield 
back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentlelady yields back.
    I now recognize myself to speak on the amendment.
    As my colleague mentioned, the amendment is unnecessary 
because the Red Tape Hotline needs to be targeted to address 
the regulatory burdens main street is feeling every day, not 
what is defined in this proposed amendment. I urge my 
colleagues to vote no on this amendment.
    Now, the question now occurs on the amendment offered by 
Representative Scholten.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the noes----
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member is recognized and a recorded 
vote has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. Further 
proceedings on the amendment are postponed.
    Okay. Now, the question now occurs on the adoption of the 
substitute amendment offered to H.R. 4305 by Representative 
Wied.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. The 
amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 4305 is 
adopted.
    The question is now on favorably reporting H.R. 4305, as 
amended, to the House.
    All those in favor, say aye.
    All those opposed, say no.
    In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and H.R. 
4305, as amended, is agreed to.
    Mr. WEID. Mr. Chairman, ask for a recorded vote.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay, we recognize that and a recorded 
vote has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. And 
pursuant to Committee rule 13 and House rule XI, further 
proceedings on the bill are postponed.
    Now, the Committee will stand in recess subject to the call 
to the Chair. Members, please return, do we know 11:40? Please 
return at 11:40 to resume consideration of the bill on which 
the roll call votes were requested and postponed.
    [Recess.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The Committee will now come to 
order.
    The Committee will resume consideration of the bills on 
which roll call votes were requested and postponed. We start 
with H.R. 5763.
    The question now is on adopting H.R. 5763 and ordering it 
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 
5763 is adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
    The question now is adopting H.R. 5788 and ordering it 
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change their vote?
    Okay. If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk 
will report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5788 is 
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
    The question now is adopting H.R. 3496, as amended, and 
ordering it favorably to the House. The clerk will open the 
vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change the vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 
3496, as amended, is adopted and will be reported favorably to 
the House.
    The question now is on ordering H.R. 5764, as amended, and 
ordering it favorably to the House.
    The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted and wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5764, 
as amended, is adopted and will be reported favorably to the 
House.
    The question now is on adopting H.R. 5784 and ordering it 
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any of the Members who have 
not voted or wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5784 is 
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
    The question now is on adopting H.R. 5778 and ordering it 
favorably to the House. The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 27 and 
the noes are 0.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 5778 is 
adopted and will be reported favorably to the House.
    Now, we will now vote on H.R. 4305. The question is on the 
amendment offered by Representative Cisneros. The clerk will 
open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 12 and 
the noes are 15.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The amendment is not agreed to.
    The question is on the amendment offered by Representative 
Scholten. The clerk will open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other Members who have not 
voted or wish to change their vote?
    If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will 
report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 12 and 
the noes are 15.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Okay. The amendment is not agreed to.
    Now, the question is now, is adopting to H.R. 4305, as 
amended, and ordering it favorably to the House. The clerk will 
open the vote.
    [The vote was taken.]
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Are there any other--okay. Are there any 
Members who have not voted or wish to change their vote?
    Okay. If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk 
will report.
    The CLERK. Mr. Chairman, on this vote, the ayes are 18 and 
the noes are 9.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The motion is agreed to and H.R. 4305, 
as amended, is adopted and will be reported favorably to the 
House.
    Now, if there is--okay. If there is no further business, 
this concludes today's markup. I want to say I think we had a 
good markup. Bipartisanship is strong in this Committee, and we 
are getting things done.
    So, without objection, the Committee staff is authorized to 
make technically conforming changes and Members have 2 business 
days to file additional supplemental, dissenting, and minority 
views.
    I want to thank all of you for being here today. Without 
objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:51 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]
    
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