[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                    LOWERING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE: 
                          TECHNOLOGY'S ROLE IN 
                         DRIVING AFFORDABILITY 

=======================================================================

                             JOINT HEARING

                               before the

 SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC GROWTH, ENERGY POLICY, AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS

                                and the

           SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH CARE AND FINANCIAL SERVICES

                                 of the

              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           DECEMBER 10, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-51

                               __________

Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform







    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]






 
    Available on: govinfo.gov, oversight.house.gov or docs.house.gov   
    
                                   _______
                                   
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
                 
62-183 PDF                   WASHINGTON : 2026  















    
    
    
    
    
    
              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Robert Garcia, California, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Maxwell Frost, Florida
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Byron Donalds, Florida               Greg Casar, Texas
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Jasmine Crockett, Texas
William Timmons, South Carolina      Emily Randall, Washington
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Wesley Bell, Missouri
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Lateefah Simon, California
Nick Langworthy, New York            Dave Min, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eli Crane, Arizona                   Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Brian Jack, Georgia                  James R. Walkinshaw, Virginia
John McGuire, Virginia
Brandon Gill, Texas

                                 ------                                

                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director
                     Ryan Giachetti, Chief Counsel
                          Jack Furla, Counsel
   Kylie Hinojosa, Professional Staff Member and Administrative Clerk
   Ellie McGowan, Professional Staff Member and Administrative Clerk
         Mallory Cogar, Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                Robert Edmonson, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                                 ------                                

                             SUBCOMMITTEES

                              ----------                              

 Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs

                   Eric Burlison, Missouri, Chairman

Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Maxwell Frost, Florida, Ranking 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                  Member
Byron Donalds, Florida               Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Dave Min, California
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Ro Khanna, California

                                 ------                                

           Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services

                  Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin, Chairman

Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois, 
Pete Sessions, Texas                     Ranking Member
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Emily Randall, Washington
John McGuire, Virginia               Wesley Bell, Missouri
Brandon Gill, Texas                  Lateefah Simon, California

































                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Hon. Eric Burlison, U.S. Representative, Chairman................     1

Hon. Maxwell Frost, U.S. Representative, Ranking Member..........     3

Hon. Glenn Grothman, U.S. Representative, Chairman...............     5

Hon. Raja Krishnamoorthi, U.S. Representative, Ranking Member....     6

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Brian Whorley, Chief Executive Officer, Paytient 
  Technologies, Inc.
Oral Statement...................................................     8

Dr. Darius Lakdawalla, Quintiles Chair in Pharmaceutical 
  Development and Regulatory Innovation and Chief Scientific 
  Officer, Schaeffer Center for Health Policy and Economics, 
  University of Southern California
Oral Statement...................................................     9

Dr. Ziad Obermeyer, Blue Cross of California Distinguished 
  Associate Professor, Health Policy and Management, company, 
  University of California-Berkeley
Oral Statement...................................................    11

Mr. Chris Jacobs, Founder, Juniper Research Group
Oral Statement...................................................    13

Ms. Sophia Tripoli (Minority Witness), Senior Director of Health 
  Policy, Families USA
Oral Statement...................................................    14

Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S. 
  House of Representatives Document Repository at: 
  docs.house.gov.
                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS

  * Article, Juniper Research Group, ``No, Obamacare Premiums are 
  NOT Doubling in 2026''; submitted by Rep. Burlison.

  * Article, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, ``By the 
  Numbers Harmful Republican Megabill''; submitted by Rep. Frost.

  * Article, The Hill, ``Medicaid Cuts Will Harm Rural Republican 
  Communities the Most''; submitted by Rep. Frost.

  * Fact Sheet, Keep Americans Covered, ``Preserve Health Care 
  Tax Credits''; submitted by Rep. Frost.

  * Report, Commonwealth Fund, ``Expiring ACA Premium Tax Credits 
  Could Lead to Nearly 340,000 Jobs Lost''; submitted by Rep. 
  Frost.

  * Article, Unleash Prosperity, ``How Much Does That MRI Cost''; 
  submitted by Rep. Grothman.

  * Article, AMA, ``Trends in Health Care Spending''; submitted 
  by Rep. Grothman.

  * Fact Sheet, CMS, ``National Health Expenditures''; submitted 
  by Rep. Grothman.

  * Article, Jaisri Lingappa, ``How WISeR Will Enable Companies 
  to Profit From Pain--A Retired Physician's Story''; submitted 
  by Rep. Randall.

The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.

 
                    LOWERING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE:  
                          TECHNOLOGY'S ROLE IN 
                         DRIVING AFFORDABILITY 

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 10, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

 Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs

           Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services

                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., 
in room HVC-210, Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. Eric Burlison 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Energy 
Policy, and Regulatory Affairs] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Burlison, Grothman, Higgins, 
Donalds, Perry, McGuire, Gill, Comer, Frost, Krishnamoorthi, 
Randall, Bell, and Simon.
    Mr. Burlison. This joint hearing of the Subcommittee on 
Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs and the 
Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services will come to 
order.
    Welcome, everybody.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN ERIC BURLISON

                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM MISSOURI

    Welcome to this joint hearing of the Subcommittee on 
Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs and the 
Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services. Today, we 
are here to explore how innovative technology in the healthcare 
sector can help lower Americans' healthcare costs.
    Healthcare costs in the United States have long been on the 
rise, but recent Democrat policies and the radical Biden 
Administration's regulatory agenda have made healthcare costs 
in America even worse.
    The Inflation Reduction Act, or the IRA, signed into law by 
the Biden Administration in 2022, was passed under the guise of 
lowering healthcare costs for working Americans.
    These two Subcommittees recently held a joint hearing on 
the ballooning costs and the market-distorting policies 
included in the IRA. Today, we have another opportunity to take 
a hard look at the consequences of policies that not only 
failed to accomplish their intended goals but place an undue 
regulatory burden on Americans.
    Business owners in our country put their livelihoods on the 
line to develop breakthrough technologies to reinvent the 
healthcare industry but are forced constantly to navigate the 
regulatory obstacles put in place by Democrat administrations.
    The money spent on legal fees and administrative procedures 
could be reinvested to further improve technologies that 
doctors and other medical providers can use to improve patient 
experiences, save lives, and bring families together.
    Congress must give private sector innovators the space and 
the resources that they need to develop these technologies.
    We have already begun to see the tremendous capabilities of 
artificial intelligence to help lower costs in our everyday 
lives. If that power were harnessed in the healthcare sector, 
resources could be more effectively deployed to help patients 
get better.
    In addition, lower costs would save the Federal Government 
and the taxpayers a lot of money in any of our Federal 
healthcare programs.
    For example, patients can use wearable technology to 
monitor their health. These devices assist doctors and 
researchers with realistic data on their patients day to day in 
real time.
    3D printing can create personalized medical devices for 
individual patients. Investment in this printing technology has 
led to the development of customized prosthetics, implants, and 
surgical tools.
    Telehealth improves the efficiency of healthcare by 
allowing medical providers to serve patients in a live virtual 
call. Telehealth saves time and helps patients connect to their 
doctors, especially in rural areas where there are few medical 
facilities.
    These kinds of technologies are revolutionary, but if 
innovators cannot afford to develop more of them because of the 
expensive barriers put in place by the previous administration 
and the Inflation Reduction Act, the American people will miss 
out on cutting-edge medical care that could improve patient 
outcomes.
    Earlier this year, President Trump signed the One Big 
Beautiful Bill into law. That bill gives over $50 billion to 
rural hospitals to ensure their continued operation and 
development of medical technology.
    Since entering office, President Trump has taken decisive 
action aimed at reversing innovation-stifling Biden-era 
policies in artificial intelligence, promoting transparent drug 
pricing, and eliminating the ``Biden Pill Penalty.''
    Our expert panel of witnesses, including a fellow 
Missourian and a medical technology business owner, will 
provide testimony on this important issue.
    I thank all of the witnesses for being here today, and I 
look forward to our discussion.
    And with that, I yield to Ranking Member Frost for his 
opening statement.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF MAXWELL FROST

                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA

    Mr. Frost. Thank you, Chairman Burlison and Chairman 
Grothman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here this 
afternoon.
    I have got to be honest, I was a little shocked to see this 
hearing called on healthcare affordability this week as we 
continue to see congressional Republicans block extension of 
the tax credits that will help people obtain affordable 
healthcare.
    We, as in this moment, are in a crisis. In just five weeks, 
the Affordable Care Act, ACA, enrollment period ends, and 
189,000 people in my district alone will be paying anywhere 
between 50 and 300 percent more in premiums, and many will opt 
out of coverage altogether.
    So, we can hold a hearing about whether technology for new 
software and medical tools can decrease costs. It is very 
interesting. I would appreciate that conversation and support 
innovation in the way that we deliver healthcare.
    But to hold this hearing now while ignoring the massive 
upcoming cliff in front of us right now is, quite frankly, an 
insult to the 25 million Americans that will see their 
healthcare costs go up if Congress does not do its job.
    Healthcare costs are going to skyrocket for American 
families if people cannot afford their premiums, and using 
technology to make certain procedures or processes slightly 
more efficient will not change that.
    We cannot allow the costs of treating cancer, diabetes, 
heart disease, and any other condition to people we know and 
people we love that are battling every day to bankrupt 
hardworking Americans.
    I cannot imagine trying to convince my constituents who are 
about to be paying an additional $2,000 a month in healthcare 
premiums that giving money to tech companies will knock off a 
few dollars here and there and that it is the best their 
leaders can do for them.
    It is not just my district. Millions of people across the 
country are unsure whether they can afford healthcare coverage 
as premiums and deductibles rise.
    One in four Americans who currently rely on the Affordable 
Care Act for health insurance are at risk of losing coverage if 
congressional Republicans succeed in letting these tax credits 
expire.
    Most Americans who are enrolled in the Affordable Care Act 
will see their healthcare insurance premiums increase anywhere 
from 50 to 300 percent. And at the same time, congressional 
Republicans have taken a sledgehammer to our healthcare system 
and set us on a path to undo all the gains that made healthcare 
more affordable under Democratic leadership.
    President Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill Act takes 
healthcare coverage away from a whopping 15 million Americans. 
The single biggest legislative achievement of congressional 
Republicans and President Trump this year has been to rip 
Medicaid away from almost eight million people by 2034. 
Congressional Republicans and Donald Trump, seems like, do not 
care whether or not you can afford your healthcare or medical 
care, and we have got to be clear this issue is fixable.
    The healthcare crisis that congressional Republicans and 
Donald Trump have created have real and devastating 
consequences for Americans. Patients will go without the 
preventative and primary care that they need. One in three 
young Americans are at risk of losing their health insurance in 
the next few years.
    The number of Americans without health insurance coverage 
in every state and every congressional district will rise. And 
thanks to the work of Donald Trump and congressional 
Republicans' new draconian work requirements for Medicaid 
eligibility, 2.1 million American women may no longer have 
health insurance when they are pregnant or caring for young 
children.
    And many people, like my Governor, Ron DeSantis, come out 
and say that young people, quite frankly, might not need health 
insurance if they are under the age of 40.
    People who get health insurance through Medicaid or the 
Affordable Care Act marketplaces are the same hardworking 
Americans that we live and work with every single day. The 
Affordable Care Act premium tax credits allow farmers, 
ranchers, and small business owners to stay self-employed, 
invest in their businesses, and employ others. All these things 
strengthen our communities and economy.
    Let us not forget that 77 percent of the Affordable Care 
Act Marketplace enrollees live in states that President Trump 
won in 2024. How quickly has he abandoned them. congressional 
Democrats are fighting to make healthcare more affordable. We 
are fighting to lower prescription drug prices, and we are 
fighting to make sure that all Americans have access to quality 
healthcare.
    We know we have a broken healthcare system. There is a lot 
I personally want to talk about as it relates to this 
healthcare system. I personally believe in single payer.
    But the fact of the matter is right in front of us we have 
a cliff that we are barreling toward, and if we do not do our 
job, this whole topic of affordability, I mean, it is something 
that 25 million Americans are facing as we speak.
    As we learn about innovations in healthcare technology 
today, it is important that my congressional Republican 
colleagues face the reality that healthcare innovation is not a 
substitute for affordable healthcare coverage, and it is not 
enough to reduce cost on its own. Innovation cannot reverse the 
damage Donald Trump and congressional Republicans have done 
with their devastating healthcare cuts.
    I urge all of us to keep everyday working families in mind 
that are struggling to afford healthcare. Let us ensure that we 
pass these premium tax credits. Let us ensure that we do not 
hike healthcare costs for 25 million Americans from anywhere 
from 50 to 300 percent. And then let us get together and figure 
out what we can do in terms of innovation to bring down costs 
for all Americans.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. I now recognize Chairman Grothman for the 
purpose of making an opening statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN GLENN GROTHMAN

                 REPRESENTATIVE FROM WISCONSIN

    Mr. Grothman. Yes, thanks. Just to respond to that a little 
bit.
    I think it is becoming more and more over time apparent 
that the major beneficiary of Obamacare, or the ACA, are the 
insurance companies. And we are at a cliff here where we are 
going to find out--where we find out what happens when we let 
the insurance companies write such a plan.
    We are at a point in which we have got to spend $34 billion 
a year or more to prop up a failed plan or come up with some 
sort of alternative.
    So, welcome to this joint hearing of the Subcommittee on 
Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs and the 
Subcommittee on Health Care and Financial Services. This is an 
exciting opportunity for us to address one of the most pressing 
issues for Americans: the continued rising cost of healthcare.
    Healthcare costs have been steadily increasing since 1970. 
The total healthcare spending in the United States was just shy 
of $5 trillion a year. That is $14,500 per person. That is 
almost 18 percent of GDP. In 1970, healthcare spending 
accounted for only seven percent. So, it has increased by 150 
percent over the last 50 years.
    The United States spends twice as much per person on 
healthcare as other peer nations. I do not have statistics on 
how much our insurance companies make compared to other 
nations.
    It makes sense that the overall healthcare costs have 
increased in the past 50 years. Our country's population has 
grown from 200 million to 350 million.
    The problem is not that we are not spending money on 
healthcare. The problem is that the money that we are spending 
is being wasted and does not improve patient health.
    Recent studies show that nearly one-third of healthcare 
spending in the United States is wasteful because it does not 
lead to better patient outcomes. In 2023, that would mean $1.6 
trillion spent on healthcare was wasted.
    To put $1.6 trillion in perspective, the Federal Government 
spent that same amount on total health insurance in 2024, 
including Medicare, Medicaid, Children's Health Insurance 
Program (CHIP)s, and the Affordable Care Act marketplace 
subsidies.
    More than half of this wasteful spending can be directly 
attributed to administrative expenses. That is why when you go 
into a hospital or a clinic you see a huge number of people 
working there who really have nothing directly to do with 
healthcare.
    Over the past several decades the growth in administrative 
staff has far outpaced the growth in doctors and nurses. 
Hospitals, insurance companies, and health systems now employ 
layers of administrators focusing on billing, compliance, 
reporting, coding, and navigating complex regulations rather 
than delivering care.
    In many hospitals today there are multiple administrative 
employees for every practicing physician. These costs are 
passed directly to patients through higher prices, higher 
premiums, and reduced access to care.
    At the same time, patients are left completely in the dark 
about prices. Someone scheduling a routine procedure frequently 
has no idea what it will cost or how prices compare across 
hospitals, clinics, or providers.
    In almost no other sector of our economy do consumers face 
this level of price secretiveness.
    Just imagine how much different our entire healthcare 
system would be if more dollars were directed toward patient 
care and less toward administration.
    This is where technology has the potential to make a real 
difference, which is why we felt it was timely to bring in 
experts in technology in the healthcare sector and see what 
they had to say.
    Empowering patients with price transparency can drive 
competition, lower costs, and improve access to affordable 
care.
    Today's expert panel of witnesses will provide their 
perspective on how the current healthcare system costs too 
much, the leading cause of those rising costs, and how 
innovative technology in the healthcare sector will make 
healthcare more affordable. We look forward to this testimony.
    And with that, I yield to Ranking Member Krishnamoorthi for 
his opening statement.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI

                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM ILLINOIS

    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Chair Grothman.
    Thank you, Chair Burlison, Ranking Member Frost.
    I associate myself with the comments of Ranking Member 
Frost, and I just want to point a few things out.
    If we do not extend these tax credits that are going to 
expire at the end of the year, in Illinois alone half a million 
people who receive these tax credits will see, on average, 
their premiums go from $260 a month to $464 a month, almost an 
80 percent increase.
    Looking closer at these numbers, those living in urban 
areas will see an almost 90 percent increase in premiums; 
whereas, people in rural areas would see premiums rise by a 
stunning 107 percent on average. So, doubling their premiums.
    Let us be clear. People will not stop needing medical care. 
Safety net and rural hospitals will pay the price. Patients 
will still show up in emergency rooms but only after manageable 
conditions have become catastrophic, driving the cost of care 
through the roof for everyone no matter their insurance status.
    Listen, this is not theoretical. In safety net hospitals 
across Illinois, frontline providers have warned me directly: 
The Republicans' Big Beautiful Bill--or what I call the Large 
Lousy Law--includes Medicaid and ACA cuts that will drive up 
costs, slash essential services, and put struggling communities 
into healthcare deserts.
    At Loretto Hospital in the Austin neighborhood of Chicago, 
83 percent of patients rely on Medicaid. In the face of 
Republican cuts, hospital officials told me they may have to 
close programs to ensure they do not have to fully shutter the 
hospital.
    In Benton, Illinois, which is in southern Illinois, I 
visited Franklin Hospital where a fifth of the hospital's 
budget comes from Medicaid reimbursements. Republican Medicaid 
cuts will require them to provide care ``on a smaller scale'' 
so they can continue serving their rural community.
    On top of that, leadership at Franklin Hospital told me 
that if the Medicaid cuts are significant enough, they would 
have to reduce staffing and reevaluate the services they can 
provide, and this will affect the entire rural economy.
    Republican healthcare cuts are going to close essential 
hospitals, and this is a map of 11 hospitals in Illinois that 
are set to shutter.
    It is going to hurt everyone because it does not matter 
what healthcare status you belong to, health insurance status 
you belong to, if you use any of these hospitals and if they 
close, you will be negatively impacted.
    And so, that is why we need to be concerned about this 
expiration of tax credits at the end of the year, but also the 
implementation of the Large Lousy Law, because it will lead to 
a crisis in healthcare that is eminently preventable today.
    If we can just marshal our energies and collective 
resources, we can pass an extension of the ACA tax credits and 
prevent what would otherwise be a catastrophic situation for 
millions of Americans.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Chairman Grothman, Ranking Member 
Frost, and Ranking Member Krishnamoorthi.
    I am pleased to welcome our expert panel of witnesses.
    First, we have Brian Whorley, who is the Chief Executive 
Officer of Paytient Technologies, Inc.
    Next to him, we have Dr. Darius Lakdawalla, Quintiles Chair 
in Pharmaceutical Development and Regulatory Innovation and 
Chief Scientific Officer, Schaeffer Center for Health Policy 
and Economics at the University of Southern California.
    Next, we have Dr. Ziad Obermeyer, who is with Blue Cross of 
California, Distinguished Associate Professor, Health Policy 
and Management, at the University of California-Berkeley.
    And next we have Mr. Chris Jacobs, who is the Founder of 
the Juniper Research Group.
    And finally, we have Ms. Sophia Tripoli, Senior Director of 
Health Policy at Families USA.
    Thank you to each and every one of you for being here 
today. I am looking forward to your testimony.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will please 
stand and raise their right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you 
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God?
    Let the record show that the witnesses answered in the 
affirmative.
    Thank you, and you may take your seats.
    We appreciate you being here.
    And let me remind the witnesses that we have read your 
written statements, and they will appear in full in the hearing 
record. So, please limit your comments to 5 minutes.
    The light system is pretty self-evident. Green is go, 
yellow is wrap it up, and red is stop.
    I now recognize Brian Whorley for his opening statement.

                 STATEMENT OF MR. BRIAN WHORLEY

      CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PAYTIENT TECHNOLOGIES, INC.

    Mr. Whorley. Thank you. My name is Brian Whorley. I am the 
CEO and founder of Paytient.
    I founded Paytient because I believe the most powerful way 
to remake the healthcare market and lower the prices we pay is 
by increasing and returning purchasing power to the one 
stakeholder in the system most sensitive to and capable of 
discerning value, and that is the patient.
    Our goal is to improve the ability of employers and 
patients to simply purchase and pay for care. Ideally, paying 
not just transparent but transactable cash prices directly to 
providers whenever possible. We do that with help from pioneers 
like HealthEquity and Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs today.
    Today, we serve 6,000 employers who want the capital 
efficiency of lower-cost health plans while ensuring that the 
96 percent of their employees who never reach their out-of-
pocket maximum have an easier way to pay for care.
    We do not do this work alone. We are grateful for partners 
such as Elevance, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arkansas, Cigna, 
Centene, Gravie, Sidecar Health, Humana, and many others who 
have been investing with us for years to improve the 
affordability of the out-of-pocket experience for ACA, 
governmental, and employer health plan members and providers.
    I am proud to say that Paytient also provides the software 
that powers the Medicare Prescription Payment Plan for nearly 
22 million Medicaid beneficiaries.
    The Medicare Prescription Payment Plan is a bipartisan 
healthcare payment innovation that gives 54 million seniors the 
option for their insurer to pay their out-of-pocket costs up 
front at the pharmacy counter.
    Seniors receive a statement at month's end to review for 
accuracy and then pay in full, like most do, or simply smooth 
their payment plan over the plan year to better fit their 
household budget.
    This innovation gives 54 million American seniors financial 
security and the ability to personalize payment in a way that 
works for their budget. It is a pragmatic approach to make 
healthcare more accessible and affordable and recognizes the 
ability to pay a $600 out-of-pocket expense is not the same for 
every senior.
    Importantly, this concept of cost smoothing, it improves 
affordability without removing responsibility.
    This bipartisan idea is catalyzing change in the employer 
insurance market where brokers, employers, and insurers are 
realizing that health plans that include cost smoothing create 
the ability to have lower-cost health plans coupled with better 
financial experiences for patients and providers.
    The market is moving toward these hybrid healthcare plans 
that have the efficiency of simply paying cash in full or over 
time for low-cost routine care, coupled with the security and 
peace of mind of insurance coverage and payment rails for rare 
care.
    Please consider four suggestions to expand the use of this 
existing in-market technology to immediately improve healthcare 
affordability.
    One, ensure seniors are automatically protected from 
unaffordable out-of-pocket costs by auto-enrolling them in the 
Medicare Prescription Payment Plan.
    Every insurer in the country has successfully launched and 
operationalized M3P. Seniors like the financial protection, 
convenience, and ability to review their monthly statements for 
accuracy before they send in a check and pay for care. Plans 
can and should automatically enroll seniors in 2027 in M3P 
instead of laboriously requiring sick seniors to call, opt in, 
and potentially delay care.
    Two, encourage insurers to expand payments to include 
medical costs. Why should seniors only be able to smooth their 
pharmacy claims over time? Why not their larger, more costly, 
and unpredictable medical expenses?
    Second, expand payment smoothing into ACA and employer 
plans, providing real relief to 180 million people today. To 
help this innovation, uncompensated care from payment smoothing 
should be clearly characterized as the equivalent to a medical 
loss encountered below the line.
    Three, allow seniors to access the benefit in real time. 
Seniors should be able to opt in in real time when they need 
help the most, when they are standing in a moment of 
uncertainty at a pharmacy counter, instead of waiting 24 hours 
and making a return trip to the pharmacy--or not.
    The technology exists to allow seniors to opt in in real 
time or near time, allowing them to simply get their meds when 
they need to.
    And last, return the economic power to the people by 
allowing employees to receive and control more of their own 
healthcare dollars. Give employers and employees the voluntary 
option to receive the full cash value of what their employer 
would have spent on their health plan into a Health Savings 
Account (HSA) or a Roth version of an HSA that they could use 
to invest in their health, purchase insurance, or simply and 
directly pay transparent, transactable cash prices directly to 
providers.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share my testimony.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Whorley.
    I now recognize Dr. Lakdawalla for his opening statement.

               STATEMENT OF DR. DARIUS LAKDAWALLA

         QUINTILES CHAIR IN PHARMACEUTICAL DEVELOPMENT

         AND REGULATORY INNOVATION AND CHIEF SCIENTIFIC

          OFFICER, SCHAEFFER CENTER FOR HEALTH POLICY

        AND ECONOMICS, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA

    Dr. Lakdawalla. Chairman Burlison, Chairman Grothman, 
Ranking Member Frost, Ranking Member Krishnamoorthi, and 
honorable Members of the Subcommittees, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today about accelerating medical 
innovation through regulatory reform. The opinions I offer 
today are my own and do not represent the views of USC or the 
Schaeffer Center.
    In 1965, the world's first beta-blocker drug, propranolol, 
was readily available to patients in Europe. Unfortunately, 
American patients would have to wait 11 years to fully benefit 
from this revolutionary treatment for cardiovascular disease.
    We now know that delay was deadly. Clinical trials show 
propranolol reduced stroke risk by 25 percent and cut heart 
attack mortality by nearly 30 percent.
    Later, USC Schaeffer research discovered this delay hurt 
the least-educated households the most because they lacked the 
means for the complex diet and exercise regimens that serve as 
the key alternative treatment option.
    Propranolol was not an isolated case. From 1972 to 1987, 
new drugs were twice as likely to launch overseas first.
    Then, in response to growing calls for timelier approvals 
driven by the AIDS crisis, the FDA pioneered a series of 
reforms, including the fast-track approval of HIV drug AZT in 
1987.
    Thanks to these and other forward-thinking regulatory 
reforms, America is now the preferred launch market for 
breakthrough medicines.
    What is needed today is the next generation of forward-
thinking regulatory reforms that would encourage critical 
innovation and improve the health of American patients.
    First, Medicare's Coverage With Evidence Development 
program needs urgent reform. Despite its name, CED limits both 
coverage and evidence development.
    USC Schaeffer analysis reveals how it creates stark 
disparities. CED-qualified hospitals are half as likely to 
treat patients that reside in rural areas. Similarly, they 
treat fewer low-income, subsidy-enrolled patients and fewer 
patients residing in socioeconomically disadvantaged 
neighborhoods.
    Not only do these kinds of constraints reduce equitable 
access, but they also undermine a key goal of CED: to generate 
evidence on a nationally representative sample of clinically 
eligible patients.
    Several steps could move CED in the right direction: 
developing a clear definition of Centers for Medicare & 
Medicaid Services (CMS)' ``reasonable and necessary'' standard, 
limiting coverage constraints only to those circumstances where 
clinical risks matter to patients, and providing transparent 
milestones that would end CED restrictions.
    Second, the current approach to Medicare Advantage risk 
adjustment weakens or sometimes even eliminates incentives for 
long-term prevention.
    For instance, academic research shows that including 
pneumonia in risk adjustment coincided with reductions in the 
influenza vaccinations that help prevent pneumonia. That is 
because risk adjustment insulates insurers from the cost of 
long-term illness and eliminates their financial rewards from 
preventing such illness.
    On the provider side, alternative payment models also 
encourage short-term thinking by limiting shared savings from 
prevention to just 12-month horizons.
    Treatment and prevention of obesity is a good example of 
long-term thinking. Our research proves investing in obesity 
treatments for the Medicare population generates at least a 13 
percent annual rate of return--greater than the stock market.
    This recent Medicare coverage expansion for obesity 
treatments can help unlock this value, especially if coupled 
with a framework that encourages broader preventive 
investments.
    As USC Schaeffer research has suggested, CMS could allow 
multiyear enrollment in MA plans with premiums fixed over the 
enrollment period and set to reflect average growth in cost.
    Lengthening the payback period would align insurers' 
incentives with the health of beneficiaries, especially because 
beneficiaries tend to stay with the same MA plan for about six 
years.
    Third, we must tackle healthcare's pricing opacity. USC 
Schaeffer research demonstrates that opaque pricing systems 
profit from complexity.
    Imagine grocery shopping where price tags are removed, and 
you receive one aggregated bill at checkout. You would have no 
idea if milk costs $5 or $50. That is American healthcare 
today.
    The economic logic is clear: when buyers cannot see prices, 
sellers exploit that blindness.
    In healthcare, aggregated payments and complex billing hide 
true costs. This is not just inefficient. It is a transfer of 
wealth from American families to healthcare intermediaries who 
profit from confusion.
    American patients deserve a healthcare system that delivers 
breakthrough innovations efficiently, equitably, and 
transparently. These reforms can deliver that system but only 
if we act decisively.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize Dr. Obermeyer for his opening statement.

                STATEMENT OF DR. ZIAD OBERMEYER

             BLUE CROSS OF CALIFORNIA DISTINGUISHED

             ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, HEALTH POLICY AND

         MANAGEMENT, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY

    Dr. Obermeyer. Thank you for this invitation to testify. I 
am a physician and a researcher at Berkeley where my focus is 
on artificial intelligence applied to health. I am also the 
Cofounder of a company called Dandelion and a nonprofit called 
Nightingale Open Science, both of which are dedicated to 
accelerating the development of health AI.
    Every time a new technology comes around somebody says this 
time is different, but when it comes to healthcare costs, new 
technology always seems to increase them. That is because the 
technology is expensive, but also because the more choices we 
have of technology, the harder it is to make good decisions, 
and that leads to waste and poor quality.
    So, I am going to tell you that artificial intelligence is 
different, and you should be suspicious, but let me try to 
convince you.
    The reason is because AI is a tool for making better 
decisions, and that is how it can give us a rare two-for-one 
opportunity to reduce the cost of care and improve the quality 
at the same time.
    Let me give you an example. Every year 300,000 Americans 
drop dead suddenly because of cardiac arrhythmias. As an 
emergency doctor, I have seen too many of those patients, and I 
would guess some of you in this room also know somebody.
    What makes these deaths so tragic is that we have a cure. A 
defibrillator implanted into the heart could save those lives, 
but doctors have trouble deciding which patients should get a 
defibrillator, and that means a lot of people die without a 
defibrillator.
    But it means something else, too. Two-thirds of the 
defibrillators that doctors actually put in never fire, never 
deliver a lifesaving shock, because the patients we thought 
were at high risk are not at high risk and never go on to 
develop those arrhythmias. That is a $50,000 procedure with 
real risks, but in this case zero benefit.
    My colleagues and I have built an AI system to help solve 
that problem. It looks at a patient's electrocardiogram and 
estimates their risk of sudden cardiac death, and our early 
testing shows it does so far more accurately than what doctors 
are currently using to decide.
    We are already starting to test that system, working with 
an incredible team at Providence St. Patrick Hospital in 
Missoula, Montana, and rural hospitals around there to get 
defibrillators to people who need them and spare the hearts and 
the pocketbooks of those who do not.
    If saving lives and cutting wasteful spending sounds good 
to you, there are a few ways that the Federal Government can 
help.
    First, data access.
    When I started this work, it was so difficult to get the 
data that we needed here in the United States that I ended up 
doing this research in Sweden. That process took ten years, but 
it was still faster than doing it here despite European data 
regulations.
    That is a real problem for patients who do not know that 
they are at high risk and a problem if we want the United 
States to lead in health AI.
    The major culprit here is the many layers of permissions 
and approvals required to touch health data. Most of that 
burdensome paperwork does not actually keep patients or their 
data safe, and it also opens the door to ideological bias. The 
paperwork is used to decide which questions get asked and which 
do not, instead of assuring that any question can be asked in a 
safe and ethical way.
    Concretely, Federal agencies that hold health data should 
set clear targets for delivering it. Health and Human Services 
(HHS) should also green-light modern technical tools for rapid 
de-identification of AI-ready data, like images and notes, and 
ONC should prevent vendors from locking up those data with fees 
and delays.
    None of this means compromising privacy or safety. In fact, 
just the opposite. Adopting modern data management methods can 
increase speed and access while improving safeguards.
    Second, FDA evaluation.
    Today we regulate artificial intelligence under statutes 
written in 1938, which treat it as a medical device, but AI is 
quite different from a thermometer.
    AI makes predictions about measurable outcomes, and that 
gives us a simple and rigorous way to evaluate it: does AI 
predict what it is supposed to predict in populations that look 
like all of America?
    The FDA should put that question at the center of its 
approach to AI and build or partner on data infrastructure for 
a rigorous, independent evaluation. That transparency is 
essential for rapid progress and for catching problems like 
algorithmic racial bias, as I have shown in my prior work.
    Third, CMS should pay for AI that does good.
    The private sector is currently underinvesting in AI tools 
because of deep uncertainty about what payers will pay. CMS has 
the power to shape that, and the new Advancing Chronic Care 
with Effective, Scalable Solutions (ACCESS) model is a 
promising new step in that direction, but CMS should go further 
by creating payment codes for AI tools that are shown to 
improve outcomes, reduce cost, and detect fraud and abuse.
    As my 5 minutes draw to a close, three Americans have 
experienced sudden cardiac death since I started to speak. They 
might still be alive if my data access had taken nine years 
instead of ten. Speed is important for patients. It is also 
important for the fiscal health of the United States--and it is 
important because we are in a race.
    We have a head start in that race with great data, world 
class universities, and purchasing power, and if we make it 
easier to use data, regulate well, and pay for high-value 
tools, we can reduce cost, save lives, and secure American 
leadership in AI.
    Mr. Burlison. On the dot, Dr. Obermeyer.
    I now recognize Mr. Jacobs for his opening statement.

                 STATEMENT OF MR. CHRIS JACOBS

                FOUNDER, JUNIPER RESEARCH GROUP

    Mr. Jacobs. Thank you, Chairmen Burlison and Grothman, 
Ranking Members Frost and Krishnamoorthi, and Members of the 
Subcommittee.
    Good morning. Thank you for inviting me to testify. My 
entire written statement is before you, so I will not repeat 
it, but instead make three main points regarding healthcare 
costs and insurance coverage.
    First, Obamacare has not met its stated objectives. The law 
singularly failed to achieve candidate Obama's 2008 promise 
that his healthcare plan would, ``bring premiums down by $2,500 
for the typical family.''
    Individual health insurance premiums more than doubled in 
the law's first four years of full implementation and continue 
to rise faster than premiums for employer-sponsored coverage. 
Meanwhile, the law encourages insurers to avoid the sickest 
patients, often harming those it most intended to help.
    Second, despite what some may believe, there is a 
surprising amount of bipartisan consensus about the law's 
failure to control healthcare costs.
    Two years ago, Senator Elizabeth Warren coauthored a letter 
noting that Obamacare's medical loss ratio provisions have 
encouraged insurance companies to acquire other businesses, 
like pharmaceutical benefit managers, and to overcharge 
patients through PBMs to shift profits from their insurance 
business, where Obamacare caps their profits, to pharmacies and 
other businesses without such restrictions.
    Indeed, healthcare has only become more consolidated since 
Obamacare's passage with hospitals and health insurers buying 
up physician practices--and each other--to gain additional 
market clout.
    Provisions like the medical loss ratio (MLR) have led 
progressives to write analyses discussing, ``How Obamacare 
Created Big Medicine.''
    A separate academic study concluded that the 340B 
prescription drug discount program, which Obamacare greatly 
expanded, raised exchange benchmark premiums by 1.8 percent in 
2024, resulting in $2.2 billion in additional Federal spending 
on insurance subsidies.
    Third, as to the enhanced premium subsidies expiring on 
December 31, this Republican Congress should follow the example 
Democrats set regarding the child tax credit in 2021 and allow 
this temporary COVID-era policy to expire.
    The myriad studies regarding fraud on the exchanges, 
including last week's Government Accountability Office report, 
demonstrate why Washington should not spend 350 billion 
taxpayer dollars, plus interest, to mask flaws in a law that 
has made healthcare less affordable.
    Thus far, during open enrollment, 400,000 more people have 
signed up for exchange plans than did so at the same time last 
year, notwithstanding the impending expiration of the enhanced 
subsidies.
    These preliminary data suggest that the worst-case scenario 
cited by enhanced subsidy supporters have not come to pass, 
reinforcing why Congress should let them expire.
    Instead, lawmakers should pursue alternative policies that 
will enhance insurance portability, realign incentives, and 
promote price and quality transparency.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify, and I 
look forward to your questions.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Mr. Jacobs.
    I now recognize Ms. Tripoli for her opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF MS. SOPHIA TRIPOLI (MINORITY WITNESS)

         SENIOR DIRECTOR OF HEALTH POLICY, FAMILIES USA

    Ms. Tripoli. Chairs Comer, Grothman, and Burlison, Ranking 
Members Garcia, Frost, and Krishnamoorthi, and Members of the 
Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    On behalf of Families USA, a leading national nonpartisan 
voice for healthcare consumers, I want to thank you for this 
critical discussion.
    The United States is in a full-on healthcare affordability 
crisis, and our Nation's families are breaking under the weight 
of it.
    We all see it. Parents who cannot afford the treatment 
their kids were prescribed. Families delaying care because 
their deductibles wipe out their savings. Workers who 
technically have insurance but cannot actually afford to use 
it. Employers who want to offer good insurance but are being 
crushed by rising premiums. And Federal and State lawmakers in 
gridlock over how to balance budgets and which services to 
prioritize.
    Today's focus on technology is important given the rapid 
advancements in technology over the last century, which has 
revolutionized healthcare delivery on everything from reducing 
medical errors to strengthening diagnostics and treatment 
protocols to streamlining eligibility and enrollment 
determinations for coverage.
    But it is important to note that while technology is a 
critical tool that can drive innovation and increase efficiency 
with appropriate patient protections in place, it is not a 
replacement for comprehensive, affordable health insurance.
    People without insurance are in no position to benefit from 
healthcare technology, and technology itself does not address 
the core drivers of unaffordable care.
    The trajectory of healthcare costs in this country is 
unsustainable for consumers, for the public sector, and for the 
private sector alike. But this is not caused by people using 
too much care or because immigrant families need healthcare.
    Our affordability crisis is caused by corporate health 
systems, whether it is big insurance giants, drug companies, or 
corporate hospital chains charging excessive prices that have 
absolutely no relationship to healthcare quality or outcomes 
and with no accountability from lawmakers.
    These excessive prices generate record profits for these 
corporate health systems all on the backs of the millions of 
Americans who cannot afford to buy groceries or pay rent 
because of rising healthcare costs.
    But instead of taking on the corporate price gouging at the 
core of our Nation's affordability crisis, this Congress cut a 
trillion dollars from the very programs built to provide a 
safety net and ensure access to affordable care and has so far 
failed to extend the enhanced premium tax credits that keep 
coverage affordable for 22 million Americans.
    Poll after poll confirms that heading into 2026, voters 
want lawmakers to address healthcare costs above all other 
priorities--jobs and unemployment, immigration, crime, and the 
budget deficit. Ninety-one percent of the American people, from 
conservative Republicans to progressive Democrats, are begging 
this Congress and the President to lower their healthcare 
costs, not strip away their only lifelines to more affordable 
coverage.
    Voters want Congress to rein in the corporate profiteering 
making healthcare unaffordable, and your decisions have real-
life consequences for everyday Americans.
    For people like Tony Gonzales in Pennsylvania who is 
fighting cancer and can only afford the treatment keeping him 
alive because of premium tax credits.
    And Brick Williams, a small business owner in Utah who 
needs regular infusions to stay alive, costing $150,000 a year 
without insurance. Enhanced premium tax credits are the only 
reason he can afford his lifesaving care.
    And Cassandra Nelson in rural Georgia who cares for her 
daughter with Type 1 diabetes and seizures and has been crushed 
by the weight of medical debt and the dread of wondering 
whether she can afford the care her child needs.
    These families and millions more across the country are 
doing everything right and playing by the rules, yet stand to 
lose everything in a system that is rigged against ordinary 
Americans and built to fuel corporate greed.
    As challenging as this moment appears in our Nation's 
history, there is good news. We already know the solutions that 
will lower healthcare costs and hold corporate health systems 
accountable for charging the excessive prices driving our 
Nation's healthcare affordability crisis.
    The solutions are to immediately pass a clean extension of 
the enhanced premium tax credits; to enact site-neutral 
payments to stop big hospital systems from charging Medicare 
more for the same procedure if it is performed at a hospital 
instead of a doctor's office; to allow Medicare to negotiate 
prices on more drugs and closing legal loopholes that allow 
drug companies to block lower-cost drugs from coming into the 
market; to stop Medicare Advantage companies from exaggerating 
patients' health risks just to get paid more; and to scrutinize 
the growth of private equity and the monopoly power of big 
corporate healthcare chains that drive up healthcare prices for 
all of us.
    These policy solutions are wildly popular and garner almost 
no opposition from voters across political parties. The 
American people are fed up with the broken healthcare system, 
and they are frustrated with politicians who choose to play 
politics with their health and financial security instead of 
delivering meaningful reforms.
    We appreciate today's discussion on technology and its role 
in potentially reducing cost and the opportunity to draw 
attention to the healthcare affordability crisis.
    Congress has the power to advance policies that will lower 
healthcare costs and hold corporate health systems accountable 
for our Nation's affordability crisis. We urge you to take 
action.
    I thank the Committee for your time, and I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    Mr. Burlison. I am very thankful for the opportunity to co-
chair this Subcommittee hearing along with my colleague, 
Chairman Grothman, and I want to thank again the witnesses for 
being here today on this important issue.
    Unnecessary government regulation is an obstacle to 
developing innovation in healthcare technology. This is 
technology that will not only--I am sorry. I am supposed to 
recognize myself for 5 minutes. I am yielding to myself for 5 
minutes.
    Unnecessary government regulation is an obstacle to 
developing innovation in healthcare technology, something that 
I worked in for almost 22 years. This is technology that will, 
if left alone, lower costs but improve patient outcomes and 
save lives.
    But bureaucrats often step in the way, just like the Biden 
Administration did when they attempted to force a one-size-
fits-all approach to the healthcare sector while failing to 
consider what is happening at the local level.
    While I served in the Missouri Legislature, I introduced a 
plan that was called the Health Care Compact, trying to wrestle 
that one-size-fits-all authority back to the states. And I am 
pleased today that I have another fellow Missourian who is 
thinking outside of the box, Mr. Whorley, on how to address the 
healthcare costs for patients.
    Mr. Whorley, what have you found to be the greatest 
obstacle in your business to develop this new kind of way in 
which people can pay?
    Mr. Whorley. Every single day we are motivated by one 
single goal, and that is to help people better access and 
afford care.
    We employ a team of incredibly talented people to make the 
unsure, uncertain moment that is facing Americans all across 
the country something of the past. And so, we want to give 
people the confidence, the ability, and the dignity to easily 
and effortlessly access and pay for care.
    I think our biggest barrier to that is just the inertia of 
the status quo, and moving that uphill requires the best 
efforts from all of us.
    Mr. Burlison. Would you say that the status quo is propped 
up by the regulations that this town has created that really 
kind of--that stop innovation like yourself, like what your 
company has provided?
    Mr. Whorley. I think the degree, to the extent that we 
can--the best regulation is probably no regulate--the ability 
for us to innovate and have degrees of freedom to respond to 
the market and respond to the customers and partners that we 
serve, that is what we are attuned to.
    Mr. Burlison. And how would you say that your business 
under the previous administration, now that you have had ten 
months under this administration, have you recognized any kind 
of change?
    Mr. Whorley. 2025 has been a transformational watershed 
year in that we have enabled nearly 20 million people to more 
easily access and afford care. We are providing people with the 
peace of mind and certainty and ensuring that that unsure, 
uncertain moment that they are standing in a pharmacy is 
something of the past. We are giving them the ability to take 
care of themselves and their loved ones, and that is with the 
launch of the bipartisan Medicare Prescription Payment Plan.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    Mr. Jacobs, how has the Affordable Care Act caused 
healthcare to actually be unaffordable?
    Mr. Jacobs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    It has really encouraged consolidation within the 
healthcare sector. I talked in both my prepared testimony and 
my written comments about how the medical loss ratio encourages 
consolidations, that we essentially have healthcare oligopolies 
now, that it encouraged insurers to buy pharmaceutical benefit 
managers and other forms of businesses where they could offload 
and shift their profits.
    Mr. Burlison. Vertical integration.
    Mr. Jacobs. Correct.
    Mr. Burlison. Forced vertical integration.
    Mr. Jacobs. And there is also vertical integration within 
the hospital sector.
    Ms. Tripoli's statement noted the significant amount of 
hospital mergers that have taken place over the years and I 
believe said that 40 percent of those occurred between 2010 and 
2015.
    Well, there was a law Congress passed in 2010. It is called 
Obamacare. And to say that that did not have an impact, I think 
it very clearly did have an impact.
    Whether it is accountable care organizations, that entities 
wanted to purchase physician practices, they wanted to purchase 
each other to get additional market clout to negotiate more 
power to negotiate with the insurers across the table from 
them.
    Mr. Burlison. Yes.
    Dr. Obermeyer, you addressed that in order to move forward 
you need access to data. One of the previous bills that was 
passed before Obamacare was passed was actually to create these 
health information exchanges, but, in my opinion, having worked 
in that space, it has been an abysmal failure. It does not 
work. It does not benefit patients. The data does not go from 
doctor to doctor.
    And then to hear that you say that it is not even 
accessible for research, you know, anonymized, this is 
something that we have to get our hands on, particularly if AI 
is going to be moving forward. And I worry about where we are 
with that.
    How do we address that in a way in which we can still 
properly secure somebody's health information?
    Dr. Obermeyer. We are used to thinking about a tradeoff 
between how easy it is to access the data and how safe it is. I 
think that tradeoff is largely a product of using old 
technology and old data management systems.
    The most sensitive data in the world are kept on modern 
systems that let people access it when they need it and keep 
out others. I think, paired with a strict approach to law 
enforcement, we can have the best of both worlds.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Frost for his line of questions.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you so much to our witnesses for being here.
    Mr. Whorley, you were chatting a little bit about in the 
last question line that you guys were able to help 20 million 
people in 2025. How does that compare to other years with your 
company?
    Mr. Whorley. It is an enormous step up.
    So, on January 1, 2025, it was the launch of the Medicare 
Prescription Payment Plan. That gave nearly 54 million American 
seniors with Part D coverage the ability to more efficiently 
and effectively get care, to smooth their costs over time.
    Mr. Frost. Yes. Thank you.
    So, how would you describe the demand for your services?
    Mr. Whorley. It is increasing.
    Mr. Foster. Okay.
    If more people have to opt in for worse healthcare plans, 
higher deductibles, different things like that, would that also 
increase demand?
    Mr. Whorley. The demand has increased as insurers and 
employers are recognizing that they can have both a lower-cost 
health plan and compassionately ensure people can access care. 
It is a programmatic approach that enables people to get the 
care they need and pay for that care at the time of service.
    Mr. Frost. No, I appreciate it.
    And so, your company, essentially you make money helping 
people to pay their healthcare bills in a more smooth way.
    If there are more people who cannot pay for their 
healthcare bills at once, will there be more demand for 
software like yours?
    Mr. Whorley. Yes.
    Mr. Foster. And if healthcare becomes more affordable, if 
we had, let us say, my North Star, single payer healthcare, 
something like that, people that need to enter payment plans 
for healthcare, there probably would not be as much of a demand 
for the services, right?
    Mr. Whorley. No. I think that the North Star and what 
affordability is, affordability is an emotion, it is the 
ability to take care of yourself. And what we do is we give 
people the financial ability to manage whatever financial 
responsibility----
    Mr. Foster. Whatever the costs are, yes.
    Mr. Whorley [continuing]. May well be.
    Mr. Frost. No, I appreciate that. And I am not trying to 
paint you as a bad person or anything. It is to make a point. 
Because you are a serial entrepreneur who finds a problem, 
right, and figures out a solution, and that is your 
prerogative, right?
    And we do have a problem. Healthcare is too damn expensive. 
The cost of healthcare is too high. And I would submit that 
part of the reason why there is such a bigger demand for your 
services than ever before is because the cost of healthcare is 
going up and up and up.
    And that is why I am confused on why my Republican 
colleagues have you as a witness here on this panel about 
affordable healthcare. Not a dig at you personally but because 
I think it shows--because there is so much more demand for 
companies like yours, it shows that we are failing in Congress, 
and whatever policies are being done right now are not helping 
people afford their healthcare and bring down the cost of 
healthcare.
    We are here to talk about bringing down the cost of 
healthcare, and if you cannot afford to get it, right, when you 
receive that bill, it means you cannot afford it.
    My dad was always strict with money. He always told me, if 
you could not afford it when you got it, you cannot afford it 
at all. If you have to buy now, pay later, you cannot afford 
it. And that is part of the issue.
    And I think it makes sense why more people need services 
like yours, is because healthcare is too damn expensive, and 
President Trump and congressional Republicans are making it 
worse.
    And that is why I come back to this extension of the 
Affordable Care Act tax subsidies. We have just five weeks 
until the ACA open enrollment ends, and in five weeks 189,000 
people in my district alone are going to see their healthcare 
skyrocket.
    I cannot tell you how many of my own friends and family 
have called me saying: ``What the hell? What are you guys going 
to do about this? I mean, I used to pay this much and now I am 
going to be paying this much. I cannot afford it.''
    And this is going to happen to 25 million of our people. 
That's why I keep coming back to this, because there's 
something right in front of us that has to do with 
affordability.
    I want to talk about the subject of technology and AI in 
healthcare. I think this is an important hearing to have. But 
right in front of us we have a cliff that is coming up, and if 
we do not do our job, more people are not going to be able to 
afford their healthcare and more people are going to have to do 
buy now, pay later plans to be able to pay to stay healthy in 
the richest country on the face of the Earth, which I think is 
disgusting and I think is a failure of our government.
    Ms. Tripoli, if the subsidies expire how will this impact 
how often people go to the doctor, how sick they get, and how 
much debt they have to take on?
    Ms. Tripoli. Thank you for the question.
    If the subsidies expire, we will see premiums more than 
double. For some families, we will see increases of 300 
percent. For older couples, we will see--just above the 400 
percent of poverty--we will see them paying about a quarter of 
their income on healthcare costs.
    We know in the midst of an affordability crisis that it is 
unaffordable. It will force people to forego care, drop out of 
coverage if they have to. And, of course, when folks drop out 
of coverage, we know that they do not go to the doctor, they 
delay, or they end up in the emergency room, which is the most 
expensive care setting to get healthcare.
    Mr. Frost. And, Ms. Tripoli, if we have folks who say, you 
know what, I disagree with a lot of different parts of our 
healthcare system--look, I know we have a broken healthcare 
system, but we have this clock ticking, this countdown timer in 
front of us.
    Would you advise us to let the countdown end and have 
healthcare go up for so many working families while we try to 
figure out a plan that no one really has right now, or would 
you say that we deal with what is right in front of us and then 
have those conversations.
    Ms. Tripoli. Time is of the essence. The first thing you do 
when somebody is bleeding is you stop the bleed. The tax 
credits need to be passed with a clean extension immediately. 
It is a lifeline for 22, 24 million Americans. And then let us 
come back to the table and talk about how we address the root 
drivers on drugs, on hospitals, and others to bring down the 
underlying cost of care.
    Mr. Frost. That is why we have to pass the extensions for 
the Affordable Care Act, because our people are suffering right 
now. The cost of everything is too damn high. And if we do not 
do our job, 25 million Americans are going to see their 
healthcare go up anywhere from 50 to 300 percent. Then let us 
get back to the table and figure out what we do to fix this 
broken healthcare system.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I have a document to submit for the record from the Juniper 
Research Group titled ``No, Obamacare Premiums Are NOT Doubling 
in 2026'' that I am submitting for the record.
    Without objection.
    And with that, I recognize----
    Mr. Frost. Mr. Chairman, I request unanimous consent of a 
UC. I have a UC, a document.
    Mr. Burlison. You are recognized.
    Mr. Frost. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter 
to the record fact sheets from Keep Americans Covered that 
shows that my Republican colleagues on this Committee represent 
738,000 people who depend on the Affordable Care Act tax 
credits.
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    I now recognize----
    Mr. Grothman. I would like to--can I submit for the 
record----
    Mr. Burlison. Yes. Mr. Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman [continuing]. A CMS fact sheet with regard to 
historical national health expenditure data and an AMA fact 
sheet on trends for healthcare spending?
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Burlison. I now recognize Chairman Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. First of all, I am grateful for an 
opportunity to have this hearing with my Co-Chair, and I want 
to thank the witnesses one more time for coming over here.
    A few weeks ago, the Health Care and Financial Services 
Subcommittee held a hearing where we heard from the Trump 
Administration about the youth healthcare crisis. Not only are 
our children facing chronic diseases at rates never seen 
before, but the healthcare system seems to only get more 
expensive without any noticeable improvement in outcomes.
    Recent data published by the Trump Administration and 
confirmed by several other independent sources indicate that 
one-third of healthcare costs are wasteful and do not improve 
patient health.
    We will start with Mr. Jacobs.
    Why are one-third of healthcare costs wasteful and fail to 
improve patient health? Do you believe that is true?
    Mr. Jacobs. I certainly think there is a great amount of 
waste in the healthcare system. Unfortunately, we, as I 
mentioned in my testimony, we do not have correctly aligned 
incentives. The traditional example is the all-you-can-eat 
buffet. Everybody does a good job of spending everyone else's 
money in healthcare.
    Obviously, there are circumstances. You are not going to 
try to shop for care when you are in an ambulance on the way to 
the hospital or anything else like that.
    But we do need to realign incentives at the margins to show 
where people can be smarter shoppers of healthcare, but first 
that requires price and quality transparency. I have had 
personal difficulties myself on numerous occasions finding out 
what the heck things cost.
    Mr. Grothman. I will give you guys another question, and 
anybody can jump in here.
    Utilization rates vary from doctor to doctor and state for 
state. Does anybody want to comment on that or have any 
information on examples of overutilization which would indicate 
that more is being spent than has to be spent?
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Well, Chairman Grothman, one issue is that 
if you look at that variation from state to state, it tends to 
be greater in Medicare than it tends to be in the commercial 
insurance market, and I think that indicates that when there is 
oversight in terms of what is valuable care, it helps to 
mitigate overuse.
    Examples of overuse, a prominent one is what is known as 
defensive medicine. So, it is testing that is undertaken 
because of malpractice risk. It probably adds, our research 
suggests, around ten percent to medical spending. So, that is 
one important source as well.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. And that varies from state to state?
    Dr. Lakdawalla. It does, yes.
    Mr. Grothman. Can you give examples of a high state and a 
low state or just a shot at a specific example of dramatically 
higher costs in one state than another state?
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Typically, the states that award higher 
jury awards in malpractice cases tend to have more defensive 
medicine.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay.
    I think we can all agree we have a problem when one-third 
of healthcare spending, according to some people, goes to 
waste. Can you explain why that is such a problem and how it 
affects the healthcare market?
    Mr. Whorley, I guess we will start with you.
    Mr. Whorley. Yes. Healthcare costs are a combination of the 
volume of care we seek and the prices we pay.
    Enabling people to pay the price and enabling more and more 
cash prices and direct prices, for there to be a single price 
for all versus a single payer for all, enabling people to 
actually know what the price is ahead of time, the real price 
that intermediaries or AI cannot reprice, that is important to 
enable patients and employers, purchasers of care, to get the 
signal: Is it the right price?
    I think it is important that in terms of volume, where 
there is overconsumption, there is also underconsumption in the 
market as people are unable to pay for care. That is why nearly 
30 percent of ACA markets have built solutions like Paytient 
into ACA plans to ensure that people are able to get care when 
it happens because healthcare is a necessity.
    Mr. Grothman. Okay. What I will do is go down the line 
starting with Dr. Lakdawalla.
    How have you personally experienced rising healthcare costs 
in your individual field or from the perspective that you are 
in right now, and specifically what would you like to see 
Congress do to rein in those costs?
    Dr. Lakdawalla. I would like to see attention paid to 
measuring the value of different healthcare procedures, drugs, 
devices, and the like, and ensuring that we are not continually 
investing in low-value care, which is happening.
    For example, most Americans say they do not want to die. 
They do not want to spend their last days of life in a 
hospital. Yet a majority of individuals end up there. That is 
wasteful care because it is not aligned with what patients 
value and their families value.
    Mr. Grothman. In other words, people are--well, go ahead. I 
am running out of time. So, we will go down the line.
    Dr. Obermeyer. I will just tell you one fact from my own 
experience as a physician.
    I have ordered a lot of wasteful tests, for example, in the 
ER, tests for heart attack that expose patients to risk and 
costs and come back negative. At the same time, heart attack is 
one of the most common reasons that doctors get sued, because 
we miss it.
    And so, even though, of course, there is a lot of 
contribution from incentives, fear of malpractice, the core of 
the problem, at least from my perspective, is that it is really 
hard to make decisions about who needs care. And I think that 
is why I am so optimistic that artificial intelligence can help 
us make better decisions. And, thus, reduce the cost of care, 
but also improve the quality by taking some of those costs and 
giving it back to patients who need the care.
    Mr. Grothman. Mr. Jacobs?
    Mr. Jacobs. As an exchange customer here in D.C. who is 
facing a premium increase starting next month, I certainly 
understand the cost because I have to pay all of those out of 
pocket. I am self-employed. So, I do not have an employer to 
subsidize.
    I actually agree with Ms. Tripoli. I think site neutral 
payments--and there is a good amount of bipartisan agreement on 
this--is a good policy that Congress should be enacting. I just 
recently went to a specialist for a second opinion on an 
orthopedic issue, and I ended up paying twice what I normally 
pay at my usual specialist, primarily because the second 
opinion was affiliated with the hospital, and it is a physician 
office visit, but it is billed through a different service. It 
is billed as an outpatient clinic visit, and so I pay twice as 
much.
    We should not be inviting these kind of disparities, and 
that encourages more physician practices to merge with 
hospitals because they can charge more.
    Mr. Grothman. I am going to break the rules and ask the 
final question to Ms. Tripoli, the Democrat witness.
    Ms. Tripoli. Well, I actually agree that the underlying 
incentives--the payment incentives of the healthcare system are 
misaligned. All the incentives are to get bigger and bigger and 
to charge more volume of high-price services rather than making 
sure that people are getting the high-value care that they need 
to get healthy and stay healthy.
    And so, I do think that there is a longer term conversation 
about how do we structurally realign incentives with the health 
and financial security of the American people, but I will tell 
you that it is very hard to have that conversation when you 
have got 22 to 24 million people right now who need the 
enhanced premium tax credits extended. And so that is the 
lifeline they need today.
    And, then, I encourage Congress to have a conversation 
about how to realign payment incentives in the healthcare 
system. Absolutely.
    Mr. Grothman [continuing]. Thank you.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Krishnamoorthi for his 
opening statement--or for his line of questions.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. I can do that, too. Thank you. Thank 
you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses. Your answers 
have been very thoughtful and really appreciate your 
participation.
    Ms. Tripoli, I want to share the story of the family of a 
woman named Krystle from central Illinois, which is where I am 
from. She is in contact with my office, and here is a picture 
of her three children, who have some medical--very complex 
medical issues.
    After growing up on Medicaid, Krystle finally secured a job 
with employer health coverage. But the plan's cost for her 
three medically complex children were so high, the employer-
sponsored coverage was effectively unusable. With the ACA's 
enhanced premium tax credits, however, she can, instead, buy 
coverage for her three children at $800 a month on the 
exchange.
    Now, if we let those tax credits expire, her premiums will 
nearly double to $1,400 a month, trapping her in a coverage 
gap.
    Ms. Tripoli, the Medicaid coverage gap, which Krystle is 
experiencing, affects millions of Americans who earn too much 
to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to afford private health 
insurance coverage. That is why the tax credits were created in 
the first place, to enable people to afford, like Mr. Jacobs 
and others, the health insurance that is available on the 
exchanges.
    And, Mr. Jacobs, I am also on the exchange like yourself.
    So, here is my question to you, Ms. Tripoli. Unfortunately, 
Krystle does not have an extra $600 a month to pay for her 
insurance. So, to get out of the coverage gap, she would be 
forced to leave her job so that her kids can qualify for 
Medicaid coverage because the only alternative to risking their 
health is basically going without coverage, which is a choice 
no parent should ever have to face.
    Ms. Tripoli, Krystle's story is not unique, right?
    Ms. Tripoli. It is absolutely not unique. And you are 
highlighting the exact reason why we need the enhanced premium 
tax credits extended immediately, not to mention the challenges 
that were imposed from H.R. 1 in terms of Medicaid work 
reporting requirements and how difficult it will be for people 
to meet--who are working, but to meet those requirements under 
the new Federal rules.
    And so, there is absolutely a need for families like 
Krystle--and there are millions of families like hers across 
the country--to get the relief they need right now, and that is 
through extending the enhanced tax credits.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Folks, as we approach the holiday 
season, please keep in mind families like Krystle's. I mean, we 
have to extend these. Even if we are going to negotiate future 
iterations of these tax credits, let us do the humane and right 
thing, which is to extend these tax credits for some period of 
time while we negotiate the rest of the ACA.
    Mr. Jacobs, you recently wrote this article entitled, ``The 
Middle Class Cannot Keep Up With Persistent Inflation 
Forever,'' right?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. It was from December 1st of--this 
month, right?
    Mr. Jacobs. That is correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. You wrote, ``American households feel 
stuck in an ever-growing vice by prices rising faster than 
their incomes can keep up,'' correct?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Donald Trump recently claimed that the 
affordability crisis is a ``hoax.''
    You wrote in this article--and I agree with you--``Trying 
to claim inflation does not exist will not cut it,'' correct?
    Mr. Jacobs. True.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. You also wrote, ``I see it every week 
when I go to the grocery store. I consider myself luckier than 
most, but the weekly shop still feels painful.'' That is what 
you wrote, right?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. You also, in part, blame Trump's tariff 
policy for high prices on things like bananas and coffee, 
writing, ``It seems foolhardy ever to have imposed levies on 
items that our climate will not allow us to grow in sufficient 
quantities domestically, but, at a minimum, ending the tariffs 
will provide a bit of relief.'' That is what you wrote, right?
    Mr. Jacobs. That is correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Despite controlling the House, the 
Senate, and the White House, Republicans have done nothing to 
bring down high prices. On the contrary, your article title 
could not be truer, Mr. Jacobs. The middle class cannot keep up 
with persistent inflation forever. President Trump's tariffs 
only make them worse.
    Now, let me turn to my final topic, and that is AI. Ms. 
Tripoli, AI has become increasingly prevalent in healthcare 
settings. In fact, a recent study from Rand, Brown University, 
and Harvard found that one in eight adolescents and young 
adults use AI chat bots for mental health advice.
    You do not dispute they found that, right?
    Ms. Tripoli. No, I do not.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Time Magazine recently reported that, 
when asked about self-harm, some of these bots have offered 
guidance on how to, ``safely cut oneself or what to include in 
a suicide note.''
    Ms. Tripoli, again, this is what Time and other news 
outlets have been reporting, right?
    Ms. Tripoli. Correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. My home state of Illinois has banned AI 
chat bots from offering any kind of psychotherapy for anyone. 
Other states have similarly instituted different guardrails for 
AI.
    Unfortunately, there is a move currently from the White 
House to preempt all state laws with a national law preventing 
this type of legislation that Illinois and other states have 
instituted or enacted to put guardrails on AI.
    Dr. Obermeyer, your testimony today--and I read--we read 
through your testimony--does not endorse preemption and, in 
fact, does not even mention it, correct?
    Dr. Obermeyer. Correct.
    Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Mr. Chair, the Majority's own witness 
did not mention preemption in its testimony because it is 
premature. There are great things happening in red and blue 
states alike that are protecting our children.
    We have one of the few chances right now to come together 
and say ``no'' to a really hasty national preemption plan that 
the White House is initiating, and I hope we do not lose that 
opportunity to work together.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Chairman Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. I would like to submit another document for 
the record called ``How much does that MRI cost?'' put together 
by Unleash Prosperity. I want you all to look at it. It shows 
similar procedures varying from $300 to $7500 depending upon 
the provider.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Without objection.
    I now recognize Mr. McGuire for his 5 minutes of questions.
    Mr. McGuire. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today.
    The tariffs--by the way, I heard mention of tariffs. 
Tariffs are working. For the first time in a decade, we have a 
surplus. That means our government has been spending more per 
month than we bring in per month.
    If you ran your house like that, you would be on the 
street. And, if you ran your business like that, you would be 
out of business.
    Now, the tariffs are important. I mean, American steel is 
back, bigger contracts than they have ever had. You cannot do 
anything without steel. And gas prices are coming down because 
we are drilling more today than we ever have.
    In fact, in Roanoke, Virginia, this weekend someone sent me 
a screenshot at the pump, under a dollar--under $2 gas. I think 
it is $2.35 today, but still, we have not seen prices like that 
in five years.
    Now, we got into a big mess over the last four years, and 
we have only been here about 11 months or so. It takes a while 
to turn the ship. But the One Big Beautiful Bill puts jet fuel 
on our economy, and, hopefully, by the spring you are going to 
see this.
    The problem is the government does not do a whole lot 
right. If they built you a car, it would cost a million 
dollars, and, you probably would be a year or two late in 
getting it, and it would fall apart. That is why we need free 
market competition.
    You have heard about COPN, a certificate of public need. It 
is like there is a monopoly and in control from those in 
charge. And, if we had free market competition, it would drive 
down prices.
    I think the first calculator was this big. It was $5,000. 
But, with innovation and free market competition, it got better 
and smaller and better and smaller, and now you can buy a 
calculator for $1 at the dollar store.
    We have not been allowing competition because the 
government is involved. And, again, I can talk about the U.S. 
Post Office. I talked--in my district, we have health clinics, 
41 I think, and several hospitals. And I asked them, ``You have 
to deliver medications every week to people that rely on these 
medications for life or death. Do you use the U.S. Postal 
Service?'' They said, ``No. We use FedEx and UPS.'' And I said, 
``How reliable are they?'' They said, ``100 percent reliable.'' 
And I said, ``How reliable is the post office run by the 
government?'' And they said, ``Not reliable at all. We cannot 
use it.'' I said, ``Well, give me a worst-case example.'' And 
they said, ``Well, we mailed some medicine in 2013, and we got 
it returned to us in 2023.''
    And so, I think the big problem with the cost overrun is--
Obamacare, for example, they call it the Affordable Care Act. I 
would call it the un-Affordable Care Act because it took away 
the free market competition, and it totally benefited the 
insurance companies, and they can charge whatever they want.
    When talking with hospitals about COPN, a doctor would say 
to me, ``Hey, I want to start--in rural Virginia, far away from 
a hospital, I want to start an MRI clinic because I can do it 
for $500 apiece, or you can go to a hospital and spend $1,500, 
$2,000 apiece.'' Sounds like common sense, right?
    But then the folks at the hospital said, ``Well, the 
problem is there are a lot of things we do at the hospital that 
do not make money. So, then, at the hospital, we charge a whole 
lot, to make up for the programs that do not make money.'' So, 
again, it is nonsensical. It is a mess. And we need free-market 
competition.
    We also need a preventative healthcare system. When you buy 
a car, it tells you, ``At 2,000 miles, do this; at 5,000 miles, 
do this; at 15,000 miles, do this.'' We seem to have a system 
where you put Band-Aids on it and wish and hope and wing it and 
modify it. And it does not work that way in the business world. 
You would be out of business if you did not have some sense.
    For example, would you rather find a tumor when it is this 
small or when it is this big, and if you had a system of 
checkups and things like that?
    But, be that as it may, we are where we are. And so, I 
guess what I would ask is--we do not have a lot of time. Let us 
get some yes-and-noes.
    Do you agree that a productive rather than reactive system 
would help us shrink government? That is just a yes or no. I do 
not have time.
    Mr. Whorley. Yes.
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Yes.
    Dr. Obermeyer. Yes, and AI can help.
    Mr. Jacobs. Sure. Yes.
    Mr. McGuire. I totally agree with that.
    And, for all the witnesses, do you agree that more 
competition in medical tech will lead to better outcomes for 
patients? Yes or no, because I do not have time.
    Mr. Whorley. Yes.
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Yes.
    Dr. Obermeyer. Yes.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Tripoli. More competition is always good, yes.
    Mr. McGuire. I like it. I like it. All right.
    I am also hopeful that data-driven approach to healthcare 
can help speed up FDA approval processes and reduce our 
reliance on countries like China for tests, and it is terrible 
that some of our most important medicines are made in China.
    Do you guys agree with this, yes or no?
    Mr. Whorley. Yes.
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Probably.
    Dr. Obermeyer. Yes.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, I think we should be near-shoring those 
kind of critical materials, yes.
    Mr. McGuire. You cannot exercise your way out of bad 
nutrition.
    So, do you guys agree that a preventative healthcare system 
that they say the positive effects of fitness on the brain and 
mental health by having proper nutrition and exercise is very 
important? Do you agree with this?
    Mr. Whorley. Americans being in better health is better for 
America.
    Dr. Lakdawalla. Prevention is underused and needs more use.
    Dr. Obermeyer. Yes.
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Ms. Tripoli. Your best prevention is having access to 
affordable care.
    Mr. McGuire. Well, thank you. I ran out of time. I yield 
back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    Ranking Member Frost?
    Mr. Frost. Mr. Chairman, I have a unanimous consent request 
to enter into the record.
    The Hill article, states ``Medicaid cuts will harm rural 
Republican communities most.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    I now recognize Ms. Randall for her line of questions.
    Ms. Randall. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to 
our witnesses for being here today.
    I love a robust conversation about how we can improve our 
healthcare system. I do not think any of us on either side 
would say that the system that we have is perfect and is 
working exactly as it was intended to.
    I do, however, have real concerns about saying, ``It is not 
working. So, we should not reinstate these affordable care tax 
credits so that more people can lose their healthcare so that 
the system is even more broken, and then we have to decide how 
to fix it.'' I do not think that is the way to meet the 
healthcare needs of the American people. It is not the way that 
they are asking us to meet their healthcare needs, and it is, I 
think, frankly, dangerous for our country.
    We have, as my colleagues have said, a ticking clock on 
these ACA tax credits. We were so quick to act when, you know, 
billionaire and big corporation tax credits were set to expire. 
Congress was called back into session from vacation to make 
them permanent.
    I do not understand why we would not act immediately for 
the benefit of the American people who are struggling with 
affordability and are struggling with the healthcare system.
    That said, you know, I think, even the original drafters of 
the Affordable Care Act, including President Obama himself, 
would argue that the ACA was not the be-all, end-all dream of, 
you know, healthcare for people in this country. They did not 
have the votes for public option.
    So, yes, giving money to the insurance companies is a large 
part of what the ACA is able to do because that is how people 
are guaranteed healthcare.
    Before the ACA--I do not know how everyone's memories are 
on this. Folks may not have been super-engaged. Before the ACA, 
women who had been pregnant could be denied healthcare 
coverage. Folks who had other preexisting conditions, any 
healthcare needs could be denied healthcare coverage. We had 
very high uninsured rates and high rates of people unable to 
access healthcare.
    There are lots of ways to make sure that we solve that 
problem. The Affordable Care Act was the bill that had the 
votes to pass at the time. It has been a while. We can revisit 
rebuilding a healthcare system like Mr. Frost has said, like 
single-payer, that meets the needs of the people, lowers costs, 
and ensures a more healthy future for all of us.
    There are lots of different approaches that countries 
around the world have taken that have been explored. In the 
United States, I, as a member of the legislature in Washington 
State, worked on establishing Washington State's universal 
healthcare commission, some of the strongest universal 
healthcare policy to be passed by any state in the last ten 
years.
    We know that we need improvements, but we also know that 
the free market is not the solution for healthcare. An 
unchecked free market means that, you know, folks who do not 
have coverage, who do not have the ability to afford care just 
will not get it. They will die often.
    Yes, you cannot shop around in the ambulance, but there are 
ways that we can provide more transparency into healthcare 
costs, like Washington and many other states who have created 
an all-payer claims data base that collects and publishes data 
so that you can look up how much it costs on average to get a 
mammogram and how much those mammograms cost at different 
facilities near you.
    But the problem for most people, especially in rural 
communities, including many in my own district, many in the 
districts of my Republican colleagues, are that there are not 
that many healthcare facilities available and accessible. And 
those that are, are at risk of closing because of the dramatic 
cuts from the big, ugly bill to Medicaid.
    Rural healthcare was at risk before we passed H.R. 1, and 
now it is hanging by a thread. What does it matter if you could 
shop around if your nearest two hospitals are two and three 
hours away from you.
    I also think we need to make space for technology, and I 
know that is what we are here to do today, to talk about how 
innovation and technology can help lower costs for families. 
But I hear a lot from my neighbors on Medicare who are worried 
about unchecked technology and AI impacting their ability to 
access care.
    Dr. Obermeyer, I am concerned about the Wasteful and 
Inappropriate Service Reduction (WISeR) Model and what that 
unchecked AI implementation will do to folks' abilities to 
access care. That is why I am a cosponsor of the SMARTER Care 
Act, a measure to ban the WISeR Model from Medicare claims.
    Do you believe that AI systems need independent oversight 
to ensure patients are not denied medically necessary care?
    Dr. Obermeyer. Absolutely.
    Ms. Randall. Thank you.
    I would like to request unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a letter from a retired physician in my district, how 
WISeR will enable companies to profit from pain.
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Ms. Randall. Thank you.
    Mr. Burlison. And your time has expired.
    Ms. Randall. I know my time is up. I will just wrap up by 
saying, I agree we have to fight consolidation. I agree we have 
to fight to take some of the costs out of the healthcare 
system. I agree that more people need access to better 
healthcare.
    And what we know is that vertical integration and 
consolidation of our healthcare systems does not lower costs 
for patients at all. It may lower costs for the provider 
groups. It may lower costs for the shareholders, but it does 
not lower costs for patients. Thank you.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize the Governor--I am sorry--the gentleman 
from Florida, Mr. Donalds.
    Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate your 
sentiment.
    Before I get into questions, I think it is important to 
acknowledge what was just said. I want to start with some of 
the positives I just heard.
    The truth is that, yes, more competition in healthcare is 
going to be critical to deliver affordable care to consumers, 
and that is something I think which is a very bipartisan 
statement. I think both sides of the aisle can agree on that.
    I think one of the things that was also just acknowledged 
is that the entire purpose of the Affordable Care Act was not 
the Affordable Care Act. It was to take the United States 
toward single-payer healthcare. That was the design 15 years 
ago.
    So, the American people need to understand, the reason why 
costs are rising in healthcare and in health insurance is by 
design, by congressional Democrats at the time, and by then-
President Barack Obama. They did want a public option. They 
wanted to put a public option in the Affordable Care Act that 
was going to be lower cost than what their own regulatory 
framework would allow in the private markets.
    The only reason they did not get the public option is 
because they did not have the votes. A guy named Scott Brown 
won a Senate election in Massachusetts--I know that sounds 
crazy today, but he did--and it stopped them from actually 
pushing forward with the public option, which, by the way, its 
entire design was to move America toward single-payer 
healthcare.
    The arc of history in healthcare needs to be clear on this 
point: single-payer healthcare does not work. It never will 
because, to the point of my colleague from the other side of 
the aisle, single-payer is the very definition of vertical 
integration of the healthcare system, which will not lead to 
lower costs for the American people. But I digress.
    Mr. Jacobs, you referenced that a single Social Security 
number was linked to over 26,000 days of subsidized healthcare 
coverage across more than 125 insurance policies in 2023.
    What mechanisms can be put in place to detect and prevent 
this level of exploitation of taxpayer funds, and what 
underlying vulnerabilities contributed to this abuse?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes, Mr. Donalds, that is correct. And the 
Government Accountability Office report that was released last 
week was just one of many data points suggesting that there are 
significant amounts of improper enrollment and potential fraud 
on the exchanges.
    I think some of it is driven by--there are certainly rogue 
agents and brokers that have been acting in CMS both under the 
Biden Administration and certainly under the Trump 
Administration have acted to crack down on that. I think 
eliminating zero premium plans, I think, is a matter of good 
policy that I think, regardless, we should be asking everyone 
to pay at least a little bit of something toward their health 
insurance every----
    Mr. Donalds. Not to cut you off, but I want to acknowledge 
something that you just said.
    In your opinion, do zero premium plans lead to fraud and 
abuse?
    Mr. Jacobs. I think without a doubt. The system responds to 
incentives. And we have only had zero premium plans for the 
past few years under the enhanced subsidy regime, and we have 
seen that the amount--the concerns about improper enrollments, 
whether it is CBO or CMS with the data regarding zero claim 
enrollees in exchange coverage, all of them have been pointing 
to increased incidents of improper enrollments and fraud.
    Mr. Donalds. Okay. Thank you for that.
    Dr. Obermeyer, if artificial intelligence becomes 
significantly integrated into medical practice, what impacts 
should we expect on the healthcare workforce?
    Dr. Obermeyer. I think what we have learned from the 
history of automation and technology adoption is that it does 
not necessarily eliminate jobs. It actually changes the nature 
of those jobs.
    So, doctors will start to need to interact with these tools 
and learn from them, and I think they will start to augment the 
capabilities of especially nurses, community health workers, 
and others who can now have access to cutting-edge technology 
applied to the data from patients to help them make better 
decisions.
    Mr. Donalds. Real quick, a quick follow-up to that. Do you 
think that the Affordable Care Act's regulatory framework 
allows for this type of internal innovation in the healthcare 
system?
    Dr. Obermeyer. I do not know about the ACA specifically. I 
think right now there are not very strong incentives for a lot 
of health systems to adopt this AI technology. I think the 
ACCESS program that was recently announced from CMS is a good 
start in that direction by incentivizing preventive care 
augmented by technology.
    But I think that government programs can do more by, for 
example, creating payment codes for AI technology that drives 
lower costs, higher value care, and even detects the kinds of 
fraud, waste, and abuse that you mentioned earlier.
    Mr. Donalds. Well, look, I am all for efficiency. One of 
the things I do have a concern about is I hear that, yes, AI is 
being used in some respects in healthcare, a lot of it for 
upcoding as opposed to pushing for efficiencies. And I think 
that is a major issue that we definitely have to get our heads 
around, both here federally and at the state level.
    Chairman, if I might indulge, I did want to ask a quick 
question of Ms. Tripoli. I know--I was hearing your dialog with 
one of my colleagues earlier about affordability. I recognize 
everybody has a concern about it. Honest question.
    Do you really think that a centralized healthcare system 
will lead to efficiencies and lower costs for the American 
people?
    Ms. Tripoli. I think there are a lot of different models to 
get to a universal system of coverage that make sure that every 
person in the country has access to the affordable high-quality 
healthcare and health that they deserve.
    In any of those systems, you have to actually address the 
incentives and the way the prices in the healthcare system are 
set. And whether you are in the current system we have now or 
some future system, the reality is that the biggest drivers of 
our affordability crisis in this country on healthcare are the 
massive consolidation from corporate health systems, from 
insurance plans to drug companies to hospital chains.
    And so, in any universal system of coverage, that issue has 
to be addressed. And, of course, most immediately, if people 
cannot afford care, then they cannot access care. And before us 
right now, there is a decision about extending the enhanced 
premium tax credits, and we urge the Congress to act on that.
    Mr. Donalds. Well, Ms. Tripoli, we will have some agreement 
on consolidation. I have serious concerns about that 
consolidation as well.
    I think if we are talking the universe one-size-fits-all 
system, I mean, I have not seen one that has worked just about 
anywhere in any industry that has ever existed on this planet, 
but I know people will continue to try.
    Sorry, Chair. I know I am over. I yield.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize my colleague from Missouri, Mr. Bell, for 
his 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bell. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Ranking Member, and our 
witnesses for being here today.
    The purpose of today's hearing is to discuss how technology 
can help reduce the future cost of healthcare, but I find this 
topic very ironic because we cannot look forward to the future 
of healthcare while ignoring the challenges that Americans are 
facing now.
    The reality is that there are over 24 million Americans 
facing unaffordable healthcare with the pending expiration of 
the ACA premium tax credits. In Missouri alone, premium tax 
credits assist 95 percent of our marketplace enrollees.
    And so, I heard a few comments that have me over here 
scratching my head. Mr. Jacobs, you said that the ACA has not--
did not make it--has not met its stated objectives, and costs 
continue to rise faster, and there is a failure to control 
healthcare costs.
    You remember saying all that, right?
    Mr. Jacobs. Yes.
    Mr. Bell. So, I want to use an analogy again. So, would 
everyone agree that Social Security overall is a good thing? 
Any objections to that? Okay.
    So, when Social Security was created in the 1930s, most 
women were excluded; intermittent workers were excluded; nearly 
half the workforce population was excluded. And then it gets 
really rich with Black folks. Two-thirds of African Americans 
were excluded, 70 to 80 percent in certain regions of the--of 
African Americans were excluded.
    But, over the years, Social Security was improved. And I 
would say mostly by Democrats, but there was some bipartisan 
efforts there throughout the years to improve it.
    So, we would--I think it is safe to say that there was a 
point in time Social Security was not necessarily effective and 
a good thing and supporting folks, a lot of folks who needed 
it, and it got better because folks worked at it.
    So, it is befuddling to me when, when we talk about the 
ACA, when Republicans talk about how bad the ACA is, first, it 
is the best thing we have got going right now. Yes, it could be 
improved, so let us improve it.
    And so, let us talk about the history. I am a data person. 
So, in 2010, Republicans unanimously opposed the Affordable 
Care Act--we all know that--and did not offer any alternatives, 
right? No alternatives. Just opposed it, every single 
Republican.
    2011, as soon as Republicans retook control of the House, 
they voted to repeal the ACA. Remember, the whole repeal and 
replace? We never got the replace idea, but that is a different 
subject. Every Republican voted to repeal it.
    2012, Republicans unsuccessfully challenged the ACA in 
court. Now, was there any court filings that the Republicans 
championed to improve the ACA? No. Just to repeal it.
    I got a lot here, too. I am going to try to get it in here.
    In 2013, Republicans refused to fund the government without 
delaying or repealing the ACA. They did not say: ``Hey, we got 
some ways to improve it. We just want to repeal it.''
    2015, Republicans passed a bill repealing the ACA that was 
voted--that was vetoed by President Obama. No--no help--no 
ways, suggestions to improve it.
    In 2017, days after taking office, President Trump canceled 
ACA enrollment outreach advertising during open enrollment.
    Ms. Tripoli, does that help get the word out and help get 
coverage for folks?
    Ms. Tripoli. No.
    Mr. Bell. In 2017, Republicans tried and failed to repeal 
the ACA again. In 2017, Republicans passed Donald Trump's tax 
plan gutting the ACA's individual coverage mandate. Notice, 
there was no legislation to improve it, make it better for 
Americans.
    In 2017, the first Trump Administration cut enrollment 
outreach funding by 90 percent. They did not do anything to 
improve the ACA.
    So, when we are three weeks away from the end of the year 
in the middle of open enrollment season, and I am still 
waiting, we are all still waiting for a vote to protect the 
American people, so, again, I got to ask, where is it? Where is 
this vote? Where is the help? Where is this plan? Where is the 
action to back up the promises and talking points?
    And so--where is the evidence that you all truly care about 
the affordable access to healthcare for the American people? 
Because every single thing that we see is just to repeal what 
is--what has done the best to control costs for Americans. Yes, 
it could be better, but Republicans got to work with us.
    Americans are screaming for relief with healthcare costs. 
And I appreciate some of the things that you are doing, 
particularly Mr. Whorley in Missouri, but these are only layers 
of things that we need to improve healthcare costs.
    But we have to address these issues head on, and it is 
going to take Democrats and Republicans actually working 
together and stop playing politics and actually get in the room 
and do it. If you do not want to call it Obamacare, great, we 
will call it something else. We can call it the Obama-Trump 
plan. I do not care. Let us just do what we can to work for the 
American people and bring the costs down.
    And right now Republicans for the last--since this act was 
implemented, have not given us one single plan to improve it or 
to--to help Americans address these issues.
    Thank you. And I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Gill, for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Gill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for holding 
this hearing, and thank you to the witnesses for taking the 
time to be here. We certainly really appreciate it.
    I appreciate my colleague on the other side of the aisle 
and their sincerity and their desire to fix our healthcare 
system and make it better. I would suggest that Social Security 
and our healthcare system are not comparable or perhaps even 
analogous.
    Our healthcare system is $5 trillion. It is about 18 
percent of our GDP. And Social Security does not have the same 
bloated cost structure that is inherent in a single-payer 
healthcare system, which our colleagues on the other side of 
the aisle have been ultimately proposing. And I think we need 
to think a little bit more deeply about ways that we can bring 
those costs down rather than bringing in, I think, incomparable 
and unanalogous other government programs.
    But, with that said, I do think that there is a lot of 
bipartisanship in healthcare, and I think that there are a lot 
of things that we would agree on.
    Ms. Tripoli, thank you for being here, and thank you for 
your testimony. I believe in your testimony you urge 
policymakers to get the root causes of high and irrational 
prices in our healthcare system. Is that correct?
    Ms. Tripoli. Yes.
    Mr. Gill. And you would agree that healthcare consolidation 
is one of the main drivers of high prices for patients?
    Ms. Tripoli. Yes.
    Mr. Gill. I certainly agree.
    And you also mentioned price disclosure, that hospitals 
should disclose the rates that they charge openly in dollars 
and cents, I believe, were your words. Is that right?
    Ms. Tripoli. Absolutely, yes.
    Mr. Gill. I certainly agree. You also mentioned site 
neutrality, that we ought to prohibit health systems from 
charging Medicare more for the same procedure if it is done in 
a hospital versus a doctor's office. Is that right?
    Ms. Tripoli. Yes.
    Mr. Gill. Those are, I think, all things that we can agree 
on, which is really, really nice to hear. So, I appreciate 
that.
    Mr. Jacobs, I want to ask you about Obamacare. Obamacare 
was sold to the American people as a program that would drive 
down premiums. I think the number that was thrown out by 
President Obama at the time was $2,500.
    Has that promise come to fruition?
    Mr. Jacobs. No, it has not, Congressman. And premiums on 
individual health insurance policies on the marketplaces and 
the exchange has more than doubled in the law's first four 
years. And that is primarily from the regulatory mandates that 
the law imposed. And prices have continued--premiums have 
continued to increase substantially, and they continue to 
increase substantially more so on the exchanges than for 
employer-sponsored coverage.
    Mr. Gill. So, you would say that Obamacare did not slow the 
growth of premiums in any meaningful way?
    Mr. Jacobs. I think, if anything, quite the contrary. I 
mean, Senator Welch, I believe, last month admitted on the 
Senate Floor that the law failed to reduce costs.
    But, more than that, I think it has accelerated the cost 
growth because of the consolidation that has come about in 
terms of hospital mergers, insurers buying PBMs, et cetera, et 
cetera.
    Mr. Gill. And that is what I was getting to. Did Obamacare 
address or fix any issues related to price transparency?
    Mr. Jacobs. Ultimately, there have been regulatory efforts. 
Some of the Trump Administration efforts were actually linked 
to regulatory requirements in the law. But I think we can and 
should do more, and I think we have also seen that hospitals 
are not necessarily complying with that law either willingly or 
easily.
    Mr. Gill. Did Obamacare address or fix issues related to 
pricing disclosure?
    Mr. Jacobs. I think we need to do more is what I would say.
    Mr. Gill. Got it. And it is your testimony as well, if I 
heard you correctly, that Obamacare actually exacerbated 
pricing issues related to healthcare consolidation?
    Mr. Jacobs. That is correct. And we have seen that in many 
areas.
    For instance, the Congressional Budget Office recently 
released a report on the 340B program and how the 340B program 
encourages increasing Federal spending and consolidation.
    Now, Obamacare did not create the program--the 340B 
program, but it certainly dramatically expanded it and is one 
of reasons why it continues to grow and continues to accelerate 
health costs.
    Mr. Gill. Got it. And, with the remaining 30 seconds, as 
you know, there is a lot of debate right now about potentially 
extending COVID-era enhanced premium tax credits.
    In your opinion, would that lower overall healthcare costs, 
or would it raise overall healthcare costs?
    Mr. Jacobs. The subsidy regime is inherently inflationary 
because, once an individual hits their income in terms of how 
it is structured in the law, the percentage of income, every 
marginal dollar of a premium increase gets paid by the Federal 
Government.
    So, insurers have no incentive to control costs because, 
whether the premium goes up by one percent or 100 percent, the 
Feds subsidize that. And so, it is an inherently inflationary 
structure. We have seen the concerns about fraud.
    I think those reasons, coupled with the fact that 
enrollments have held study thus far in open enrollment, all 
suggest that we should allow the enhanced subsidies to expire.
    Mr. Gill. Got it. Thank you.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentlelady from California, Ms. Simon, 
for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Simon. Thank you all for coming today to be a part of 
this conversation. I especially want to say hello to my 
constituent from UC Berkeley, Dr. Obermeyer. Thank you so much 
for being here.
    And I know we are talking about the affordability of 
healthcare and ACA credits, which I will expand on in my short 
remarks.
    But I want to say, I am a widow, and I lost my husband, who 
left me parenting two girls by myself. And he was diagnosed 
with a terminal cancer that was so rare, only about ten people 
in the United States get this cancer each year. And, after five 
years, despite the intervention and the treatment, they all 
die.
    Kevin had T-cell prolymphocytic leukemia. And, even with 
insurance, flying across the country to find just a little bit 
more time and getting into a clinical trial, it took all that 
we had. And, post his passing, myself and my little girls were 
left with a mountain of debt, a mountain of debt. I am so 
thankful to our insurance providers because, without them, that 
debt would have been in the millions, not just a million.
    $27,000 a day for a bag of Campath that hung while he had 
amino therapy every day for nine months before transplant. I 
could not imagine--I could not imagine where we would be even 
though we struggled without health insurance.
    In January there will be families, tens of thousands of 
them across the Nation--maybe in the hundreds of thousands--
they will see their rates, but triple. Many of them will have 
no choice but to just bail out--we know that--and use emergency 
room care.
    The Democrats and Republicans, for whatever reason--maybe 
we have not independently personally suffered enough in our own 
families to figure out how to put politics aside and get it 
right for families who are suffering, who are waiting on a call 
for a clinical trial, families who are waiting for labs like 
the CRISPR lab to develop just one more innovation that might 
give dad or mom or that baby with TPN in her nose just a little 
bit more time.
    So, all has been said on this panel. But one of the things 
that I think it is important for me personally and politically, 
having talked to thousands of families as a cancer mom and as a 
cancer widow, we cannot innovate fast enough.
    You know, during the congressional Black Caucus 
Foundation's annual legislative conference, I actually hosted a 
panel with OpenAI and Akido Labs, and the Hidden Genius Project 
and a brilliant scholar, Rashad Robinson, on how AI is 
transforming medicine and innovation.
    I am from the Bay Area, the home of AI, the home of biotech 
innovation, and I am so proud to represent that sector. I am so 
proud to represent that region.
    We know that we can, in fact, democratize medicine. We can 
democratize innovation. New technologies, including AI, present 
exciting opportunities for patients, physicians, scientists, 
and families.
    We already know that AI is advancing lifesaving early 
detection for cancer, Alzheimer's--right in Berkeley at the 
CRISPR lab. We know we are this close. Doc, you know this--to 
providing sickle cell patients with a new lease on life. This 
close. Unfortunately, the Trump Administration took millions 
from that lab, leaving folks waiting.
    As someone, myself, who was born a preemie with a 
congenital visual impairment, I know how important these 
technologies are for disabled communities. I know how, as I 
talked about before, important these technologies are for 
clinicians, who, when my husband was diagnosed with T-PLL, they 
were using--you all know who are physicians--they were using 
up-to-date printouts, you know, up to date. Can you imagine in 
ten years where we will be when physicians and pathologists 
will have the technology to immediately access gazillions of 
language models, again, to give patients and families more 
days?
    So, I have some questions. I do not have the time, but what 
I am committed to doing here with you all in my district and 
beyond and with Members of this Committee across the aisle is 
engaging in a short-and long-term conversation that hopefully 
involves action to get it right for the people who need us 
most.
    I want to thank you all for coming today. I cannot wait to 
work with you all in my office a little bit more, hopefully a 
lot of bit more, and to continue to be someone who yells from 
the rooftops about what our people deserve and what, hopefully, 
they will get.
    And I will yield back. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Burlison. Mr. Frost?
    Mr. Frost. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter 
into the record a Commonwealth Fund report entitled ``Expiring 
ACA Premium Tax Credits Could Lead to nearly 340,000 jobs lost 
across the United States in 2026.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    Mr. Frost. And one more. This is from the Center on Budget 
and Policy Priorities, entitled ``By The Members, Harmful 
Republican Megabill Will Take Away Healthcare Coverage Away 
from Millions of People and Raise Families' Costs.''
    Mr. Burlison. Without objection.
    In closing, I want to say thank you again to our witnesses 
today for your testimony.
    And, with that, I will yield to Ranking Member Frost for 
his closing remarks.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much to our witnesses for being 
here, and thank you so much to Chairs, plural, for having us 
here today.
    This conversation of healthcare affordability is incredibly 
important, very personal to so many people on this panel. And 
it is important that we look at what is right in front of us, 
which is the expiration of the Affordable Care Act tax 
subsidies.
    Like I mentioned and I entered into the record earlier, my 
Republican colleagues on this hearing represent 738,000 people 
who depend on the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
    In Missouri Seventh; that is 59,000 people. In Wisconsin 
Sixth, that is 34,000 people. In Alabama Sixth, that is 56,000 
people. In Arizona's Ninth, that is 44,000 people. In 
Louisiana's Third, that is 44,000 people. In Texas 17th, that 
is 76,000 people. In Florida's 19th, that is 149,000 people. In 
Florida's 13th, that is 101,000 people. In Pennsylvania's 10th, 
that is 25,000 people. In Virginia's Fifth, that is 36,000 
people. In Colorado's Fourth, that is 24,000 people. And, in 
Texas 26th, that is 90,000 people.
    These are not just statistics and numbers. Behind every 
number, there is a person who is at risk of having their 
healthcare going up from anywhere from 50 to 300 percent. I 
think this conversation is an important conversation we need to 
have after we deal with the healthcare crisis right in front of 
us.
    Let us pass and extend these tax credits to make sure that 
working-class people in this country do not see their 
healthcare costs go up so much that so many of them will just 
decide not to have health insurance, and then let us get to 
fixing this broken healthcare system.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you. I now recognize myself for a 
closing statement.
    We heard from expert panel witnesses on how to make 
healthcare more affordable for the American people. And 
Americans want simple, affordable, transparent healthcare, but 
our current system hides the prices. It blocks competition and 
routes every decision through an unnecessary regulation and 
bureaucracy. We must prioritize innovative technologies and 
pathways forward to help lower these costs.
    Today our witnesses spoke about their personal experience 
navigating the healthcare market. They testified on how 
misaligned structures in the current healthcare system are 
keeping healthcare costs high because there are not incentives 
to drive the costs down.
    Artificial intelligence will eliminate unnecessary costs, 
if allowed, and may allow providers to direct their efforts 
fully toward making patients healthier. And the Trump 
Administration is paving the way forward for entrepreneurs to 
develop the best healthcare in the world while also promoting 
consumer choice.
    We need this innovation because the status quo is totally 
broken. The American people are suffering from the un-
Affordable Care Act passed by the Democrats.
    Since 2014, Obamacare has skyrocketed the costs of 
healthcare and has not led to better patient health outcomes. 
The one thing that we might be unanimous on in this country is 
that Obamacare has failed in its goal of reducing healthcare 
costs. In fact, it has made it worse.
    We hear you, America. You are not getting simple, 
affordable, and transparent healthcare right now. And that is 
why, rather than have the hearing and just have conversations, 
I am taking action. That is why I am introducing a bill called 
the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) Act that will put 
consumers back in the driver's seat and allow for free market, 
as intended, to spur competition and lower costs and give 
people back their freedom and their choice.
    The MAHA Act will allow consumers to shop on the price and 
the quality of healthcare services. Unlike under Obamacare, 
this will force providers to compete in the open market, 
driving down costs and making those costs actually transparent.
    Consumers will have access to tax-free health wallet that 
patients can use as real money as opposed to coupons that are 
controlled by an insurance carrier. This account will be 
portable from job to job, giving workers their freedom back 
instead of being locked into a job because of fear of losing 
their health coverage.
    This program will also make prices clear by encouraging 
price posting and upfront costs, creating a true consumer-
focused market. The American healthcare system is facing a 
nationwide shortage across all major category of providers, and 
my plan would encourage the elimination of medical education 
inflation and scope creep, expand and modernize residency 
training, and eliminate arbitrary hospital caps on residency 
slots, increasing the supply of doctors and medical 
professionals.
    The American people have spoken. They want more affordable 
healthcare. Today's hearing lays the foundation for a more 
affordable healthcare system in America by focusing on 
innovative technology and new pathways forward.
    The Democrats have failed. Obamacare has failed. The 
American people and Republicans are ready to act. And this act, 
my MAHA Act, will fix this broken system, lower healthcare 
costs for Americans, and put American families back in the 
driver's seat for their healthcare decisions.
    And I now recognize Chairman Grothman for his closing 
remarks.
    Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Sorry, I had another hearing.
    First of all, I would like to thank the chairman for 
getting us together on this very informative hearing, and I 
would like to thank all of you for coming from all the country, 
four corners of this nation, to educate us on the higher cost 
of healthcare.
    I think we have seen consensus here today that there is 
probably too much being spent on administration and that, in 
some areas, there is overutilization driven by greed.
    I want to thank our witnesses again. Americans want 
transparency on where their money is going, and we have the 
responsibility to deliver solutions and provide our citizens 
with the best healthcare system.
    We learned today that implementing the innovative 
technology can provide a solution to tackle wasteful spending 
and misaligned pay incentives. The application of technology 
has the potential to address the large administrative cost 
burden that many patients must pay that they do not have 
knowledge of.
    Many of us have experienced high cost within the healthcare 
without receiving high-value care for ourselves and families. 
One-third of healthcare spending in the United States goes to 
waste, and we must act now to address this growing problem.
    It is going to be tough because, of course, if we spend 
less money in our healthcare system, somebody is going to be 
getting no check or a smaller check. So, the special interests 
will be out looking to protect the status quo.
    But I think the Republican Conference is up to it, and I 
think we will stand up to those special interests and find a 
way to reduce the out-of-control costs, which is such a burden 
on your average American patient.
    Thank you again for letting me in the room.
    Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Chairman Grothman.
    Thank you, Ranking Member Frost.
    And, with that, without objection, all Members have 5 
legislative days within which to submit materials and 
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be 
forwarded to the witnesses.
    And, if there is no further business, without objection, 
the Committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:58 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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