[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                      PROMOTING FOREST HEALTH AND
                   RESILIENCY THROUGH IMPROVED ACTIVE
                               MANAGEMENT

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON FORESTRY AND HORTICULTURE

                                 OF THE

                        COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 10, 2025
                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-14



               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]



          Printed for the use of the Committee on Agriculture
                         agriculture.house.gov
                         





                                ______
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

61-970 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025                         






































                        COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE

                 GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania, Chairman

FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota, Ranking 
AUSTIN SCOTT, Georgia, Vice          Minority Member
  Chairman                           DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
ERIC A. ``RICK'' CRAWFORD, Arkansas  JIM COSTA, California
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee          JAMES P. McGOVERN, Massachusetts
DOUG LaMALFA, California             ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina
DAVID ROUZER, North Carolina         JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut
TRENT KELLY, Mississippi             SHONTEL M. BROWN, Ohio, Vice 
DON BACON, Nebraska                  Ranking Minority Member
MIKE BOST, Illinois                  SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
DUSTY JOHNSON, South Dakota          ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana              DONALD G. DAVIS, North Carolina
TRACEY MANN, Kansas                  JILL N. TOKUDA, Hawaii
RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa                 NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
MARY E. MILLER, Illinois             ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 GABE VASQUEZ, New Mexico
KAT CAMMACK, Florida                 JONATHAN L. JACKSON, Illinois
BRAD FINSTAD, Minnesota              SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              ADAM GRAY, California
RONNY JACKSON, Texas                 KRISTEN McDONALD RIVET, Michigan
MONICA De La CRUZ, Texas             SHOMARI FIGURES, Alabama
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   EUGENE SIMON VINDMAN, Virginia
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         JOSH RILEY, New York
DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington             JOHN W. MANNION, New York
TONY WIED, Wisconsin                 APRIL McCLAIN DELANEY, Maryland
ROBERT P. BRESNAHAN, Jr.,            CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine
Pennsylvania                         SALUD O. CARBAJAL, California
MARK B. MESSMER, Indiana
MARK HARRIS, North Carolina
DAVID J. TAYLOR, Ohio
                                 ______

                     Parish Braden, Staff Director
                 Brian Sowyrda, Minority Staff Director
                                 ______

               Subcommittee on Forestry and Horticulture

                   DOUG LaMALFA, California, Chairman

BARRY MOORE, Alabama, Vice Chair     ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon, Ranking 
DAVID ROUZER, North Carolina           Minority Member
TRENT KELLY, Mississippi             JIM COSTA, California
JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana              GABE VASQUEZ, New Mexico
DAN NEWHOUSE, Washington             ADAM GRAY, California
TONY WIED, Wisconsin                 JOSH RILEY, New York, Vice Ranking 
                                     Minority Member
                                     CHELLIE PINGREE, Maine

                                  (ii)
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                  
                                                                  
                                  
                                  
                             C O N T E N T S

                               ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Craig, Hon. Angie, a Representative in Congress from Minnesota, 
  opening statement..............................................     7
    Prepared statement...........................................     9
LaMalfa, Hon. Doug, a Representative in Congress from California, 
  opening statement..............................................     1
    Prepared statement...........................................     3
Salinas, Hon. Andrea, a Representative in Congress from Oregon, 
  opening statement..............................................     4
    Prepared statement...........................................     5
Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from 
  Pennsylvania, opening statement................................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................     7

                               Witnesses

Barnes, Jamie, Director/State Forester, Utah Department of 
  Natural Resources, Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands, 
  Salt Lake City, UT; on Behalf of National Association of State 
  Foresters......................................................    12
    Prepared statement...........................................    13
Dane, Bradley ``Scott'', Executive Director, American Loggers 
  Council, Gilbert, MN...........................................    17
    Prepared statement...........................................    19
Monohan, Ph.D., Carrie, Director of Natural Resources, Mooretown 
  Rancheria of Maidu Indians, Oroville, CA.......................    31
    Prepared statement...........................................    32
DeLuca, Ph.D., Thomas H., Dean, College of Forestry, Oregon State 
  University; Director, Oregon Forest Research Laboratory, OSU, 
  Corvallis, OR..................................................    34
    Prepared statement...........................................    36

 
                      PROMOTING FOREST HEALTH AND
                   RESILIENCY THROUGH IMPROVED ACTIVE 
                               MANAGEMENT

                               ----------                              

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
                 Subcommittee on Forestry and Horticulture,
                                  Committee on Agriculture,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:01 a.m., in 
Room 1300, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Doug LaMalfa 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives LaMalfa, Moore, Baird, 
Wied, Thompson (ex officio), Salinas, Costa, Riley, and Craig 
(ex officio).
    Staff present: John Busovsky, Laurel Lee Chatham, John 
Hendrix, Sofia Jones, John Konya, Ari Perlmutter, Emma Simon, 
Michael Stein, and Jackson Blodgett.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DOUG LaMALFA, A 
         REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM CALIFORNIA

    The Chairman. Welcome. Thank you for joining our hearing 
today entitled, Promoting Forest Health and Resiliency Through 
Improved Active Management. After brief opening remarks, 
Members will receive testimony from our witnesses today, and 
then the hearing will be open to questions.
    So, in consultation with the Ranking Member and pursuant to 
Rule XI(e)(1), I want to make Members of the Subcommittee aware 
that other Members of the full Committee may join us today.
    So, with that, once again, welcome. Today, we will be 
hearing from a panel of witnesses to discuss the National 
Forest System, state and private forests, and the many issues 
before the U.S. Forest Service and the communities located in 
those forested areas. Today's hearing is also an opportunity to 
receive feedback on these important issues and recommendations 
on what Congress could do to encourage more active management 
of our forests, to restore them, improve forest health, 
encourage the use of more forest products, and, very 
importantly, reduce the threat of catastrophic wildfire in 
areas that are at the highest risk of these ever-present 
dangers.
    That last part is especially important in the West. We 
continue to witness devastating wildfires year after year as 
millions of acres of forestland are burned annually--the loss 
of forests, homes, property, wildlife, the environmental 
damage--so much more than we should be enduring, so it, 
unfortunately, continues to be a challenge as we constantly 
face this in the West. The increased severity of the impacts of 
wildfires is the result of inadequate management and, in some 
cases, outright mismanagement of our forestlands over decades. 
In this year alone, more than 47,000 wildfires in the U.S. have 
burned more than 4 million acres of land. As of yesterday, we 
have some 66 large fires currently burning in 12 states, 
including--in the West: Idaho, California, Montana, Washington, 
Oregon, and several others. Earlier in the year, we saw an 
unprecedented urban fire situation in southern California, 
which is, indeed, an unfortunate example of what if we aren't 
prepared for these threats in all aspects.
    What was once a fire season, especially in southern 
California, seems to be now more of a fire year, a constant 
year-round effect. Even now, fires rage across the northern and 
eastern parts of my own district, my colleagues in Oregon, 
Nevada, as we named them off, burning thousands of acres of 
land in devastating wildfires that, ultimately, are 
preventable. It is a crisis. More needs to be done to increase 
the pace and scale of forest management and reduce the levels 
of hazardous fuels across our forests. We need every tool in 
the toolbox. We need to be thinking about partnerships and 
management on a much larger scale than we have in the recent 
past.
    I appreciate many of the actions taken by this 
Administration this year to do just that, specifically, the 
identification of new acreage in need of treatment and plans to 
ramp up the use of emergency authorities. Those are good 
starts. Another promising initiative is the effort to increase 
timber harvest levels above the current targets. For decades, 
harvesting National Forests has remained far below previous 
levels and below the amount authorized in current plans. 
Increasing these goals will help support forest products, rural 
communities, and overall management of the National Forest 
System. With all that in mind, Congress still has much more to 
do to support the agency, the states, counties, Tribes, and 
other partners to accelerate forest management.
    Last year's House farm bill--the Farm, Food, and National 
Security Act of 2024 (H.R. 8467, 118th Congress) provided a 
variety of new tools and authorities intended to expand 
partnerships, continue cross-boundary management, improve 
environmental processes, and help grow new markets for forest 
products. These are positive reforms that will help land 
managers restore our forests and protect communities by 
reducing the threat of wildfire. I support these reforms. I am 
hopeful this Committee and Congress will soon pass a new farm 
bill and see these many improvements signed into law.
    Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today, as 
well as our colleagues on the panel. Your experience and 
testimony as witnesses are invaluable as this Committee, and as 
Congress, considers ways to better manage our forests and truly 
improve wildlife conditions. And with that, I would like to 
also specifically acknowledge from my home district, Carrie 
Monohan from Mooretown Rancheria, for traveling all the way 
from California. I know what that is like. Welcome to all of 
our witnesses, and we look forward to your testimony and 
perspectives.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaMalfa follows:]

 Prepared Statement of Hon. Doug LaMalfa, a Representative in Congress 
                            from California
                            
    Good morning, everyone. Welcome to today's Forestry and 
Horticulture Subcommittee hearing titled ``Promoting Forest Health and 
Resiliency Through Improved Active Management.''
    Today we will be hearing from a panel of witnesses to discuss the 
National Forest System, state and private forests, and the many issues 
before the U.S. Forest Service and communities located in forested 
areas.
    Today's hearing is also an opportunity to receive feedback on these 
important issues and recommendations on what Congress can do to 
encourage more active management of our forests to restore them, 
improve forest health, encourage the use of more forest products, and 
reduce the threat of catastrophic wildfire in areas that are at highest 
risk of these ever-present disasters.
    That last part is especially important. In the West, we continue to 
witness devastating wildfires year after year as millions of acres of 
forestland are burned annually. The loss of forests, homes and 
property, and unfortunately lives continues to be a challenge we 
constantly face in the West.
    The increased severity and impacts of wildfires is the result of 
inadequate management, and in some cases, outright mismanagement of our 
forestlands over decades.
    In this year alone, more than 47,000 wildfires in the U.S. have 
burned more than 4 million acres of land. As of yesterday, we have some 
66 large fires currently burning in 12 states; including Idaho, 
California, Montana, Washington, Oregon, and several others.
    Earlier in the year, we saw the unprecedented urban fires in 
southern California, which was an unfortunate example of what can 
happen if we aren't prepared for these threats. What was once a fire 
season, is now more of a fire year.
    Even now fires rage across the northern and eastern parts of my 
district, burning thousands of acres of land in devastating wildfires 
that ultimately are preventable.
    This is a crisis and more needs to be done to increase the pace and 
scale of forest management and reduce the levels of hazardous fuels 
across our forests.
    We need every tool in the toolbox; and we need to be thinking about 
partnerships and management on a much larger scale than we have in the 
past.
    I appreciate many of the actions that the Trump Administration has 
taken this year to do just that. Specifically, the identification of 
new acreage in need of treatment and plans to ramp up the use of 
emergency authorities are good starts.
    Another promising initiative is the effort to increase timber 
harvest levels above the current targets. For decades, harvesting in 
the National Forest System has remained far below previous levels, and 
below the amount authorized in current plans.
    Increasing those goals will help support forest products, rural 
communities, and the overall management of the National Forest System.
    With that all in mind, Congress still has much more to do to 
support the agency, the states, counties, Tribes, and other partners to 
accelerate forest management.
    Last year's House farm bill--the Farm, Food and National Security 
Act--provided a variety of new tools and authorities intended to expand 
partnerships, continue cross-boundary management, improve environmental 
processes, and help grow new markets for forest products.
    These are positive reforms that will help land managers restore our 
forests and protect communities by reducing the threat of wildfire.
    I support these reforms and am hopeful this Committee and Congress 
will soon pass a new farm bill and see these many improvements signed 
into law.
    Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. Your 
experience and testimony are invaluable as this Committee and Congress 
consider ways to better manage our forests and truly improve wildfire 
conditions.
    I'd also like to specifically acknowledge Dr. Carrie Monohan with 
the Mooretown Rancheria for traveling all the way from California to be 
here today.
    Welcome to all of our witnesses, and we look forward to your 
testimony and perspectives.
    With that, I will yield to Ranking Member Salinas for any opening 
remarks she would like to provide.

    The Chairman. I will now yield to our Ranking Member 
Salinas for any her opening remarks.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANDREA SALINAS, A  
            REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM OREGON

    Ms. Salinas. Well, thank you, Chairman LaMalfa, for 
convening us today, and thank you to our witnesses for being 
here and making the trek out. And I especially want to thank 
Dean DeLuca, who has consistently provided my team and me with 
valuable input that informs our work here in Washington. I know 
that Dean's testimony and answers today, along with the 
perspectives of our other distinguished witnesses, will give 
this Subcommittee important insights as we consider the future 
of active forest management across the country.
    I want to be clear at the outset of this hearing, active, 
science-based management is not about clear-cutting large 
swaths of forests. It is about targeted thinning, prescribed 
fire, fuels reduction, and other practices that restore balance 
to ecosystems and reduce wildfire risks to our communities. We 
can prevent and combat catastrophic wildfires without 
irreparably harming and damaging the habitat and ecosystems we 
require to survive as humans. Unfortunately, even as the need 
for active management has grown more urgent, recent actions by 
the Trump Administration have undermined the Forest Service's 
ability to actually meet that challenge. The Department of 
Agriculture's proposed reorganization, which would centralize 
staff and research in distant hubs, threatens to strip away 
local expertise and the trusted partnerships that are essential 
for success. That includes longstanding collaborations with 
institutions like the Oregon State University. Workforce 
reductions have only worsened the problem. As many as 5,000 
Forest Service employees have been lost this year when the 
agency already isn't meeting its needed staffing requirements. 
These personnel cuts have primarily impacted staff who were 
relatively new to their roles, as well as the agency's most 
experienced staff nearing the end of their careers. The result 
is critical gaps in knowledge, research, and local capacity at 
the very moment when we should be scaling up all of these 
efforts.
    On top of these workforce challenges, the Trump 
Administration's budget proposes deep reductions to the very 
programs that help state, Tribal, and private partners carry 
out active management. These are the programs that fund 
cooperative agreements, technical assistance, and cross-
boundary projects. Cutting them undermines the ability of 
states and Tribes to match Federal efforts on the ground, 
weakening the partnerships we know are essential for forest 
health.
    That leads me to a larger point. The success of active 
forest management depends on partnerships. Tribes, states and 
local governments, universities, and private landowners all 
bring unique tools and expertise to this work. Programs like 
Good Neighbor Authority, Service First agreements, and shared 
stewardship show what is possible when we work together. In 
Oregon, we have seen firsthand how impactful these partnerships 
can be, and institutions like Oregon State have proven how 
seamlessly they can work with their Federal partners. But 
instead of strengthening these partnerships, the Trump 
Administration has pursued theatrical actions that will 
undermine our ability to meaningfully improve the health and 
resilience of our forests.
    One example is Secretary Rollins' repeal of the 2001 
Roadless Rule, which she justified as a way to expand active 
management and reduce wildfire risk. The truth is that roadless 
areas are remote and costly to access. They are not landscapes 
where decades of logging and deferred management have led to 
overstock and increased fire risk. They are not where wildfire 
poses the greatest threat to communities, people, and property. 
In fact, research shows that fire risk only increases in areas 
with roads and human activities. Our priority must be to focus 
on active management where the risk is highest, not to rescind 
protections in hopes of opening up new areas for industrial 
access.
    The Subcommittee has a responsibility to ensure that the 
Forest Service has the resources, workforce, and research 
capacity it needs to carry out its mission and ensure the 
health and resilience of our nation's forestlands. We must 
advance policies in the upcoming farm bill and beyond that 
expand science-informed management, strengthen partnerships, 
and keep our focus squarely on protecting people, communities, 
and ecosystems at risk. I look forward to hearing from our 
witnesses and working together to chart a path forward that 
will help us achieve these goals.
    Thank you so much, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Salinas follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Andrea Salinas, a Representative in Congress 
                              from Oregon
                              
    Thank you, Chairman LaMalfa, for convening us today, and thank you 
to our witnesses for making the trip.
    I especially want to thank Dean DeLuca, who has consistently 
provided my team and me with valuable input that informs our work here 
in Washington. I know the Dean's testimony and answers today, along 
with the perspectives of our other distinguished witnesses, will give 
this Subcommittee important insights as we consider the future of 
active forest management in this country.
    I want to be clear at the outset of this hearing--active, science-
based management is not about clear-cutting large swaths of forest. It 
is about targeted thinning, prescribed fire, fuels reduction, and other 
practices that restore balance to ecosystems and reduce wildfire risks 
to communities. We can prevent and combat catastrophic wildfires 
without irreparably damaging the habitat and ecosystems we require to 
survive as humans.
    Unfortunately, even as the need for active management has grown 
more urgent, recent actions by the Trump Administration have undermined 
the Forest Service's ability to meet that challenge.
    The Department of Agriculture's proposed reorganization, which 
would centralize staff and research in distant hubs, threatens to strip 
away local expertise and trusted partnerships that are essential for 
success. That includes long-standing collaborations with institutions 
like Oregon State University.
    Workforce reductions have only worsened the problem. As many as 
5,000 Forest Service employees have been lost this year, when the 
agency already isn't meeting it's needed staffing requirements. These 
personnel cuts have primarily impacted staff who were relatively new to 
their roles, as well as the agency's most experienced staff nearing the 
end of their careers. The result is critical gaps in knowledge, 
research, and local capacity at the very moment when we should be 
scaling up our efforts.
    On top of these workforce challenges, the Trump Administration's 
budget proposes deep reductions to the very programs that help state, 
Tribal, and private partners carry out active management. These are the 
programs that fund cooperative agreements, technical assistance, and 
cross-boundary projects. Cutting them undermines the ability of states 
and Tribes to match Federal efforts on the ground, weakening the 
partnerships we know are essential for forest health.
    That leads me to a larger point--the success of active forest 
management depends on partnerships. Tribes, states, local governments, 
universities, and private landowners all bring unique tools and 
expertise. Programs like Good Neighbor Authority, Service First 
agreements, and shared stewardship show what's possible when we work 
together. In Oregon, we have seen firsthand how impactful these 
partnerships can be, and institutions like Oregon State have proven how 
seamlessly they can work with their Federal partners.
    But, instead of strengthening these partnerships, the Trump 
Administration has pursued theatrical actions that will undermine our 
ability to meaningfully improve the health and resilience of our 
forests.
    One example is Secretary Rollins's repeal of the 2001 Roadless 
Rule, which she has justified as a way to expand active management and 
reduce wildfire risk.
    The truth is that roadless areas are remote and costly to access. 
They are not the landscapes where decades of logging and deferred 
management have led to overstock and increased fire risk. They are not 
where wildfire poses the greatest threat to communities, people, and 
property. In fact, research shows that fire risk only increases in 
areas with roads and human activities. Our priority must be to focus on 
active management where the risk is highest, not to rescind protections 
in hopes of opening new areas for industrial access.
    This Subcommittee has a responsibility to ensure the Forest Service 
has the resources, workforce, and research capacity it needs to carry 
out its mission and ensure the health and resilience of our nation's 
forestlands. We must advance policies in the upcoming farm bill and 
beyond that expand science-informed management, strengthen 
partnerships, and keep our focus squarely on protecting people, 
communities, and ecosystems at risk.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and working together 
to chart a path forward that will help us achieve these goals.
    Thank you, and I yield back.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Salinas. We will recognize our 
Chairman of our Agriculture Committee, Mr. Thompson, for his 
comments.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. GLENN THOMPSON, A 
         REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM PENNSYLVANIA

    Mr. Thompson. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking 
Member, and thanks to our witnesses for being here today. 
Chairman and Ranking Member, great job with the folks you have 
brought to the table for this hearing. I am excited to read 
their testimony. I am excited to hear from them. Coming to 
Washington is never easy, but it is so important for you to be 
here and to share your perspectives today, to bring your 
expertise.
    For decades, our nation's forests have seen a decline in 
forest health due to a lack of management, invasive species 
outbreaks, overgrowth, and other factors. I have been proud of 
the work this Committee has done over the past several farm 
bill cycles to provide the Forest Service with a number of 
tools and authorities intending to encourage more active 
management, more partnerships, and the use of forest products, 
expanding the markets. For example, this includes the 
authorization of the Good Neighbor, authorities for cross-
boundary projects, and expanded categorical exclusions such as 
insect and disease CEs, just to name a few. These are 
commonsense reforms that will help encourage more landscape-
scaled management of the National Forest System and adjacent 
forestlands.
    Now, given the scale of the restoration and the fuels 
reduction needed on millions of acres, we must be thinking 
about management on a much larger landscape scale. Now, while I 
remain encouraged by many of the President's Executive Orders 
and management actions proposed by the Forest Service, 
particularly the efforts to increase harvest above the current 
targets, this Committee must also do its part to support the 
agency to help get more work on the ground as quickly and as 
effectively as possible. Last year, this Committee favorably 
reported the Farm, Food, and National Security Act to deliver a 
new farm bill for rural America. Title VIII, the forestry 
title, expanded on the good work that this Committee has done 
in the 2014 and 2018 Farm Bills in a variety of ways to 
encourage more management, more market opportunities for forest 
products, and commonsense improvements to environmental 
processes and Forest Service administration. We are now 2 years 
past the original expiration of the 2018 Farm Bill, and the 
time to act on a new law is now.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how we can 
encourage and improve forest health and resiliency and what 
this Committee should also be thinking about to further support 
forest managers and rural communities. And with that, Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Thompson follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Glenn Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
                           from Pennsylvania
                           
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to our witnesses for being 
here today.
    Coming to Washington is never easy but it is so important for you 
to be here and share your perspectives today.
    For decades, our nation's forests have seen a decline in forest 
health due to a lack of management, invasive species outbreaks, 
overgrowth, and other factors.
    I have been proud of the work this Committee has done over the past 
several farm bill cycles to provide the Forest Service with a number of 
new tools and authorities intending to encourage more active 
management, more partnerships, and the use of forest products.
    For example, this includes the authorization of Good Neighbor, 
authorities for cross-boundary projects, and expanded categorical 
exclusions such as the insect and disease CE, just to name a few.
    These are commonsense reforms that will help encourage more 
landscape-scale management of the National Forest System and adjacent 
forestlands. Given the scale of the restoration and fuels reduction 
needed on millions of acres, we must be thinking about management on a 
much larger landscape scale.
    While I remain encouraged by many of the President's Executive 
Orders and management actions proposed by the Forest Service, 
particularly the efforts to increase harvest above the current targets, 
this Committee must also do it's part to support the agency to help get 
this more work on the ground as quickly and effectively as possible.
    Last year, this Committee favorably reported the Farm, Food, and 
National Security Act to deliver a new farm bill for rural America.
    Title VIII expanded on the good work this Committee has done in 
prior farm bills in a variety of ways to encourage more management, 
more market opportunities for forest products, and commonsense 
improvements to environmental processes and Forest Service 
administration.
    We're now 2 years past the original expiration of the 2018 Farm 
Bill and the time to act on a new law is now.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how we can 
encourage improved forest health and resiliency, and what this 
Committee should also be thinking about to further support forest 
managers and rural communities.
    With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will recognize our 
Ranking Member, Angie Craig, for any comments she would have to 
make.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ANGIE CRAIG, A
            REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM MINNESOTA

    Ms. Craig. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you 
to my colleagues for organizing this hearing, and especially to 
our witnesses for taking time out of your busy schedules to be 
here today.
    I am pleased to see the Committee engage more on forestry 
issues and, specifically, the current conversation about the 
future of the U.S. Forest Service. I cannot overstate my 
concern over the hollowing out of the Forest Service in recent 
months. We have lost countless dedicated public servants, many 
of whom held wildfire certifications, served on the line during 
fire season, and played essential support roles for the 
agency's core functions. In total, the agency has lost more 
than 5,000 employees, amounting to nearly 15 percent of the 
total workforce. I hope our witnesses will speak to the effect 
this downsizing is having or may have on the Forest Service's 
ability to fulfill its critical mission.
    Many of this Administration's policies regarding the Forest 
Service are deeply concerning. They have recklessly proposed 
slashing Federal funding for state, Tribal, and private 
forestry programs that provide critical technical and financial 
assistance to forest landowners and land managers helping to 
conserve our nation's forests and protect vulnerable 
communities from wildfire. I know we have witnesses here today 
that can share with us the importance of these farm bill-
authorized programs. The President's budget also included the 
total elimination of funding for all but one of the Forest 
Service's research and development programs. The world-class 
scientists at Forest Service research stations throughout the 
country work every day to develop early warning technology that 
keeps our communities and firefighters on the frontlines safe. 
They analyze data to identify where we are most vulnerable to 
fire, landslides, or insect and disease outbreaks, and test 
responses so that we can protect our communities with evidence-
based management practices. My colleagues on this Subcommittee 
cannot ignore the risk this Administration is taking here in 
managing these critical issues.
    Proposals to move wildfire activity out of the Forest 
Service, especially during an active fire season, are ill 
informed and threaten the agency's comprehensive approach to 
forest management. Additionally, the Administration's 
announcement to rescind the 2001 Roadless Rule puts our forests 
at greater risk of wildfire, watershed degradation, and 
wildlife habitat loss. There are more high-priority acres that 
need management to reduce these risks than we currently have 
capacity to treat. We should target these rather than reopening 
a decades-old political fight that is sure to result in 
litigation. I share this Administration's goal to increase 
active management on Federal lands, and I agree that more 
board-feet need to come off our National Forests to reduce the 
risk of mega-fires, which has the added benefit of supporting 
the wood products industry. But, do we even have the staff 
capacity to accomplish our timber goals? And if we eliminate 
Forest Service R&D, will the wood products industry end up 
suffering more than it benefits from changes to Federal policy? 
More recently, the USDA's half-baked reorganization plan 
promises to consolidate forestry research scientists and 
jeopardizes the work they are doing with universities and other 
partners throughout the country.
    Simply put, all these decisions undermine the Forest 
Service's statutory requirement to manage our nation's forests 
to meet the needs of present and future generations. A 5 year 
farm bill represents a serious opportunity in front of this 
Committee to not only address the commonsense issues that 
everyone agrees need to be made, but also the challenges and 
concerns which undermine the Forest Service's mission and 
threaten forests across the country. Only if a farm bill 
process is truly and meaningfully bipartisan and devoid of 
poison pills will we be able to provide stability to the Forest 
Service, clarify Congressional intent on the agency's 
operations, and challenge some of the Administration's most 
ill-informed and rash decisions. I look forward to working with 
my colleagues, our witnesses, and the broader forestry 
community on the way forward.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Craig follows:]

 Prepared Statement of Hon. Angie Craig, a Representative in Congress 
                             from Minnesota
                             
    Thank you to my colleagues for organizing this hearing and to our 
witnesses for taking time out of your busy schedules to be here today. 
I am pleased to see this Committee engage more on forestry issues, and 
specifically the current conversation about the future of the U.S. 
Forest Service.
    I cannot overstate my concern over the hollowing out of the Forest 
Service in recent months. We have lost countless dedicated public 
servants, many of whom held wildfire certifications, served on the line 
during fire season and played essential support roles for the agency's 
core functions. In total, the agency has lost more than 5,000 
employees, amounting to nearly 15 percent of the total workforce. I 
hope our witnesses will speak to the effect this downsizing is having 
or may have on the Forest Service's ability to fulfill its critical 
mission.
    Many of this Administration's policies regarding the Forest Service 
are deeply concerning. They have recklessly proposed slashing Federal 
funding for state, Tribal and private forestry programs that provide 
critical technical and financial assistance to forest landowners and 
land managers helping to conserve our nation's forests and protect 
vulnerable communities from wildfire. I know we have witnesses here 
today that can share with us the importance of these farm bill-
authorized programs.
    The President's budget request also included the total elimination 
of funding for all but one of the Forest Service's research and 
development programs. The world class scientists at Forest Service 
research stations throughout this country work every day to develop 
early warning technology that keeps our communities and firefighters on 
the front line safe. They analyze data to identify where we are most 
vulnerable to fire, landslides or insect and disease outbreaks and test 
responses so that we can protect our communities with evidence-based 
management practices. My Republican colleagues on this Subcommittee 
cannot ignore the risks this Administration is taking here in managing 
these critical issues.
    Proposals to move wildfire activity out of the Forest Service, 
especially during an active fire season, are ill-informed and threaten 
the agency's comprehensive approach to forest management.
    Additionally, the Administration's announcement to rescind the 2001 
Roadless Rule puts our forests at greater risk of wildfire, watershed 
degradation and wildlife habitat loss. There are more high-priority 
acres that need management to reduce these risks than we currently have 
capacity to treat. We should target these rather than reopening a 
decades old political fight that is sure to result in litigation. I 
share this Administration's goal to increase active management on 
Federal lands. And I agree that more board-feet need to come off our 
National Forests to reduce the risk of mega-fires, which has the added 
benefit of supporting the wood products industry. But do we even have 
the staff capacity to accomplish our timber goals? And if we eliminate 
Forest Service R&D, will the wood products industry end up suffering 
more than it benefits from changes to Federal policy?
    Most recently, the USDA's half-baked reorganization plan promises 
to consolidate forestry research scientists and jeopardizes the work 
they're doing with universities and other partners throughout the 
country. Simply put, all these decisions undermine the Forest Service's 
statutory requirement to manage our nation's forests to meet the needs 
of present and future generations.
    A 5 year farm bill represents a serious opportunity in front of 
this Committee to not only address the common-sense issues that 
everyone agrees need to be made, but also the challenges and concerns 
which undermine the Forest Service's mission and threaten forests 
across the country. Only if a farm bill process is truly and 
meaningfully bipartisan and devoid of poison pills will we be able to 
provide stability to the Forest Service, clarify Congressional intent 
on the agency's operations and challenge some of the Administration's 
most rash decisions. I look forward to working with my colleagues, our 
witnesses and the broader forestry community on the way forward.
    Thank you and I yield back.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Craig. Normally, 
this would be the time I would have the witnesses give their 
testimony, but we have multiple committees today, so I would 
like to have the opportunity for our Members here to be able to 
get their work in here before they would have to go. So, I am 
going to recognize Mr. Moore for 5 minutes with a statement and 
questions of the panel, so, panel, be ready, and we will get to 
your comments in a moment here. Thank you.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today.
    I recently sat down for a conversation about the future of 
space mining and how we might one day source minerals and 
metals from beyond Earth to fuel innovation here at home, but 
there is one resource the scientists have yet to find in space, 
and that is wood. The Lord put our forests right here on Earth, 
and they remain one of the most renewable, reliable resources 
we have been blessed with, all while supporting jobs, 
communities, and industries across Alabama and our entire 
nation. Mr. Dane, your testimony described the Fix Our Forests 
Act (H.R. 471) as comprehensive forest management. In your 
view, what are the most important forest management reforms 
provided by that legislation or the Farm, Food, and National 
Security Act?
    Mr. Dane. Mr. Chairman, Committee, thank you very much for 
the opportunity to talk about that. The Fix Our Forests Act, 
first of all, is a forest management and a wildfire mitigation 
piece of legislation. The American--the logging industry are 
just merely tools to help accomplish those objectives in the 
Fix Our Forests Act. Now, there are quite a few things that are 
included in the Fix Our Forests Act. One of them--I know this 
somewhat controversial--is litigation reform, but there is no 
denying the fact that litigation has dragged out billions of 
board-feet of timber management for protracted periods of time 
and resulted in many lost opportunities, so litigation reform 
is important.
    Let me see here. The Fix Our Forests Act, obviously they 
are looking at increasing the scope and scale--or pace and 
scale of forest management, and that is extremely critical as 
well. The western states, particularly, that are dependent upon 
Federal timber, have been choked out in many instances, to the 
point where the supply was not there to support the mills 
remaining viable. In California alone, there were 150 mills 20, 
25 years ago. They are down to 27 mills there. So, increasing 
the available timber supply is vital to supporting the 
infrastructure that is necessary for forest management. As an 
example, if there is no market, there is no management.
    Mr. Moore. So, the litigation itself is slowing the process 
of getting the timber to the mills. Is that kind of what I am 
understanding, Mr. Dane? Is that part of it?
    Mr. Dane. Yes.
    Mr. Moore. What else is causing issues?
    Mr. Dane. That is part of it. I mean, it drags it out for 
multiple years. And as an example, fire salvage timber that is 
put up for sale can be dragged out 6 years before it can 
actually go to market. Eighteen months after the fire goes 
through, the value of the timber is useless except for anything 
more than biomass, so if we could salvage that within that 18 
month period, we could add value to it and utilize that timber. 
That is an example.
    Mr. Moore. Gotcha. Mr. Dane, retaining saw mills, 
obviously, and increase in forest product infrastructure 
continues to be a challenge in many areas. Given that the 
industry is a key partner in managing forests, do you think 
there are ways that we can help sustain and support new 
processing and infrastructure? I think the lawsuits are part of 
that, but what else do you think we might could do from 
Congress' standpoint to help?
    Mr. Dane. Well, I think that a major step with this 
Administration has occurred with the trade investigations and 
the imports. As an example, the United States' sawmills are 
operating at 72 percent capacity right now, and they can 
obviously go up to 85+ percent capacity. We are the largest 
importer of softwood lumber in the world right now. We can 
produce more domestically. And as another example, Brazil is 
exporting plywood to the United States while the United States 
is closing plywood mills. So, trade is a very big factor 
regarding increasing market share and supporting the current 
infrastructure.
    Mr. Moore. All right. Ms. Barnes, one last question. I have 
about 45 seconds. We know coordination between state, local, 
and Federal land managers and fire responders is an ongoing 
workload. Can you tell us more about how this coordination 
occurs before, during, and after a fire, and are there specific 
barriers that hinder the cooperation?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. Thank you for the question. Interagency 
coordination is key, especially in the State of Utah. State, 
local, and Federal partners work together in a seamless space 
of how to respond to wildfires and how to do forest management. 
There are things that can hinder that at times based on 
resource capacity, based on jurisdictional boundaries, but in 
Utah, we are pretty good at responding to fires and working in 
a seamless capacity. I like to tell people that wildfire is one 
thing that we can't do alone. It takes all of us to do it, so 
bringing in that interagency coordination from a local level 
and to a state level and also a Federal level is something that 
is very important, and it is something that we have to continue 
to do.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Moore. Good luck in the 
markup.
    All right. Now, we will go back to the regularly-scheduled 
programming here, so, again, panelists, thank you for joining 
us. You know the rules. Each of you will have 5 minutes, and so 
just watch the timer and watch the colors on the stoplight, and 
you will know what to do.
    So, let me first introduce Ms. Jamie Barnes, the Utah State 
Forester in the Division of Forestry Fire and State Lands of 
the Utah Department of Natural Resources. So, take it away, 5 
minutes.

    STATEMENT OF JAMIE BARNES,  DIRECTOR/STATE  FORESTER,
     UTAH  DEPARTMENT  OF NATURAL RESOURCES,  DIVISION OF 
     FORESTRY, FIRE AND STATE LANDS,  SALT LAKE CITY, UT; 
     ON BEHALF OF NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF STATE FORESTERS

    Ms. Barnes. Thank you, Chairman LaMalfa, and Ranking Member 
Salinas, and Members of the Subcommittee, for holding this 
hearing today and for the opportunity to testify before you on 
behalf of the National Association of State Foresters. My name 
is Jamie Barnes. I am the State Forester and Director of the 
Division of Forestry, Fire and State Lands in Utah. In my role, 
I am responsible for overseeing forest health, and responding 
to wildfires and managing sovereign lands in Utah. Established 
in 1920, the National Association of State Foresters is 
composed of the directors of forestry agencies in 50 states, 
D.C., and all the U.S. Territories, and nations in compacts of 
free association.
    State Foresters have been tasked with implementing National 
Forest policy priorities for over a century, providing 
technical assistance to landowners, and managing 76 million 
acres of state-owned forested land that supply critical timber. 
State Foresters also work cooperatively to improve the 
resilience and productivity of Federal lands. State Foresters 
work to advance resilient landscapes and provide effective 
wildfire response across 1.5 billion acres. NASF, the only non-
Federal entity on the National Multi-Agency Coordinating Group, 
is a critical part of the national interagency fire 
coordination that provides response on Federal lands and 
manages the nation's largest, most complex fires. State 
forestry agencies and local departments respond to 80 percent 
of the fires nationwide.
    Under the first Trump Administration, State Foresters 
formalized their commitments to greater partnerships through 
shared stewardship with the Forest Service and other agencies. 
Utah is on our second shared stewardship agreement, the first 
being signed in 2019 and the second in 2022. Utah has had great 
success bringing partners together and stakeholders together to 
focus on the right work in the right place at the right scale. 
A total of $30 million has been invested in active forest 
management actions, which include work in critical watersheds 
that are high risk for wildfires. With President Trump's recent 
Executive Orders, there has been a renewed emphasis on the role 
of states in assisting with pressing challenges facing our 
forests. Utah has taken a proactive approach with the Forest 
Service, engaging in conversations around a shared stewardship 
agreement or other supported model where we partner together in 
land management. Utah values the partnerships we have built in 
the state, and we support carrying out critical management 
objectives together to meet increased acreage targets, 
production goals, the ability to better serve our industry 
partners and reduce wildfire risk in our rural communities, 
revitalizing these communities for our future generations.
    Good Neighbor Authority has been a critical tool for states 
to increase the pace and scale of cooperative Federal land 
management while providing economic opportunities for rural 
communities. Through GNA, western states have completed over 
66,000 acres of fuels and forest health projects, 291 timber 
sales across 98,000 acres of Federal lands, and generating over 
840 million of board-feet of timber. However, the ability for 
GNA to meet current national needs is dependent on four levers: 
sustaining the state and private forestry programs, integrating 
state-Federal project planning, dedicated and predictable 
funding for the GNA projects, and state discretion and 
operational autonomy under GNA.
    State staff with GNA responsibilities are frequently 
supported by a broad range of Federal funding. On average, 
state forestry agencies would lose 20 percent of their 
workforce capacity if Forest Service and private and state 
forestry programs were defunded. In addition, predictable and 
increased funding for GNA projects cannot be understated 
because not all states have Forest Service lands that have 
robust timber markets or marketable timber. Forested lands in 
Utah are one of the state's most valuable natural resources. 
They provide scenic beauty, wildlife habitat, clean air, and 
supply timber products. Most of the forested lands in each of 
the states are held by private landowners or by the Forest 
Service. In Utah, the Division 6 area offices employs a 
forester who works with landowners to provide assistance to 
those wishing to utilize or improve their forested lands. This 
is made possible through Congressional authorities and funding. 
It plays an important role in the work we do in Utah and 
creates direct results on the ground that are cross-boundary, 
benefiting communities and future generations to come.
    NASF is grateful for the Committee's work this last year on 
the farm bill to capture State Foresters' priorities, sustain 
the active management for private forested lands, including 
authorizing assistance for the State Action Plan, strengthening 
our national reforestation capacity by codifying the RNGR, and 
NASF looks forward to working with the Committee to address 
additional amendments to the Conservation Reserve Program and 
the Volunteer Fire Assistance Program. Thank you again for this 
opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Barnes follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Jamie Barnes, Director/State Forester, Utah 
 Department of Natural Resources, Division of Forestry, Fire and State 
 Lands, Salt Lake City, UT; on Behalf of National Association of State 
                               Foresters
                               
    The National Association of State Foresters (NASF) is pleased to 
provide written testimony to the House Agriculture Subcommittee on 
Forestry and Horticulture for this important hearing on Promoting 
Forest Health and Resiliency Through Improved Active Management. Thank 
you, Chairman LaMalfa, Ranking Member Salinas, and Members of the 
Subcommittee for holding this hearing today and for the opportunity to 
testify on behalf of NASF.
    Established in 1920, the National Association of State Foresters is 
a nonprofit organization composed of the directors of forestry agencies 
in the 50 states, five U.S. territories, three nations in compacts of 
free association with the U.S., and the District of Columbia. State 
Forestry Agencies have been tasked with implementing National Forest 
policy priorities for over a century, underpinned by direction and 
authorities provided by the House and Senate Agriculture Committee to 
achieve the necessary scale and coordination that is otherwise out of 
reach. Since the 2008 Farm Bill, this role has been supported by State 
Forest Action Plans, guiding State Forestry Agencies in active 
management and protection of state and private forests, which encompass 
nearly \2/3\ of all forests nationwide. State Foresters provide 
technical assistance to private landowners and directly manage 76 
million acres of state-owned forestland that supply critical timber for 
domestic uses. In addition, State Foresters and their agencies work to 
improve the health, resilience, and productivity of Federal lands 
through partnerships such as Shared Stewardship Agreements and farm 
bill authorities such as Good Neighbor Authority and cross-boundary 
hazardous fuel reduction projects.
    In collaboration with local governments and Federal agencies, State 
Foresters also work to advance resilient landscapes and fire-adapted 
communities and provide safe, effective wildfire response on 1.5 
billion acres, a large portion of which is in the wildland-urban 
interface. NASF--the only non-Federal partner serving on the National 
Multi-Agency Coordinating Group at the National Interagency Fire 
Center--is a critical part of the national interagency coordination 
that provides response on Federal lands and manages the nation's 
largest, most complex fires. Collectively, State Forestry Agencies and 
local fire departments respond to 80 percent of fires nationwide and in 
2024 over a third of state and local dispatches through the National 
Interagency Fire Center were deployed to battle fires on Federal lands.
    As State Forester and Director of the Utah Division of Forestry, 
Fire & State Lands, my agency is responsible for forest health, 
responding to wildland fires and managing sovereign lands in Utah. In 
Utah the approach to fighting wildfire is an interagency model through 
coordinated efforts with state, Federal and local partners. This 
collaborative framework, referred to as the Cooperative Wildfire 
System, helps fund large fires throughout the state but also focuses on 
prevention, preparedness and mitigation efforts in exchange for that 
ability to delegate.
    Meaningful, landscape-scale active forest management is spurred and 
strengthened by Federal investment provided through the farm bill and 
conveyed through the USDA Forest Service's State, Private, and Tribal 
Forestry mission area, with the Natural Resources Conservation Service 
and Farm Service Agency also playing significant partnership roles. We 
thank the Committee for their work in the Farm, Food, and National 
Security Act of 2024 to capture a number of State Forester priorities 
to bring these tools and resources to bear and offer the following 
perspectives and priorities as the Committee works towards a 2025 Farm 
Bill.
Cooperative Federal Land Management through State Forestry Agencies
    State Forestry Agencies provide boots-on-the-ground capacity to get 
the work done quickly and effectively by leveraging a wide range of 
investments made through the Forest Service and other Federal partners. 
Thanks to the support under the first Trump Administration, over 30 
states took the initiative to formalize their commitments to greater 
partnership and collaboration through Shared Stewardship Agreements 
with the Forest Service and other agencies. State Forestry Agencies 
have played a vital role in ensuring the success of the collaborative 
shared stewardship framework by coordinating key partners and 
facilitating active management across all ownerships including Federal 
lands.
    Utah is on our second Shared Stewardship agreement, the first being 
signed in 2019 and the second in 2022. Utah has had great success in 
this area bringing partners and stakeholders to focus on the right 
work, in the right place at the right scale. A total of $30 million has 
been invested in this program in active forest management actions which 
include work in critical watersheds that are at high risk for 
wildfires.
    With the President's March 2025 Executive Order 14225 Immediate 
Expansion of American Timber Production and the Forest Service National 
Active Management Strategy, there has been renewed emphasis on the role 
of states in assisting with addressing the pressing challenges facing 
our Federal forests, namely reducing catastrophic wildfire risk and 
revitalizing rural economies. NASF supports the Trump Administration's 
bold and proactive approach to forest management and affirms our 
continued commitment to partnering across jurisdictions. Through Good 
Neighbor Authority (GNA) and other authorities, State Forestry Agencies 
are able to support the Forest Service in carrying out critical active 
management treatments to meet domestic timber production goals, support 
industry partners, and reduce wildfire risk across forested landscapes.
    Utah has taken a proactive approach with the Forest Service 
engaging in conversations around a renewed Shared Stewardship agreement 
or other supported model where we partner together in land management. 
Utah values the partnerships we have built in the state and we support 
carrying out critical management objectives together to meet increased 
acreage targets, production goals, the ability to better serve our 
industry partners and reduce the wildfire risk in our rural communities 
revitalizing these communities for our future generations.
    GNA has been proven time and again as an effective tool for states 
and the Forest Service to increase the pace and scale of improvements 
to forests and watersheds, reducing wildfire risks, supporting cross-
boundary projects and coordination, and providing job opportunities for 
rural communities. GNA has been utilized by over \2/3\ of the nation's 
State Forestry Agencies since its enactment in the 2014 Farm Bill. In 
this time, 13 state forestry agencies in the western United States have 
reported a cumulative 170 agreements with the Forest Service, 
completing over 66,000 acres of fuels and forest health projects and 
291 timber sales across almost 98,000 acres. These timber sales have 
generated over 840 million board-feet of timber and a combined net 
value in excess of $80 million.
    However, the ability for GNA meet the current needs on Federal 
lands is dependent on four critical levers: sustained funding for the 
Forest Service's State, Private, and Tribal Forestry programs, 
integrated state and Federal planning for activities, treatments, and 
long-term goals, dedicated and predictable funding for state GNA 
projects, and state discretion and operational autonomy under GNA to 
act effectively on needed active forest management activities. State 
staff with GNA responsibilities are frequently supported by a broad 
range of Federal funding including state, Private, and Tribal Forestry 
programs, and a recent survey of NASF membership indicated that on 
average State Forestry Agencies would lose 20 percent of their 
workforce capacity if the programs were defunded, with individual 
agency losses as high as 80 percent.
    Additionally, the role of dedicated and predictable funding for 
State Forestry Agencies to perform GNA cannot be understated, 
especially as not all states and National Forest System lands have 
robust timber markets and/or marketable timber that can sustain a state 
GNA program. Given the Forest Service's request for states to 
contribute to Congress and the Administration's goal of increasing 
timber harvest and mitigating wildfire risk, additional Federal funds 
will be required to bolster state GNA programs and projects. As further 
strides are made between State Forestry Agencies and the Forest Service 
on new Shared Stewardship Agreements and an increased utilization of 
GNA--including the final implementation of the flexibilities provided 
by the EXPLORE Act--we look forward to working with the Committee on 
any statutory amendments for the 2025 Farm Bill to improve the 
effectiveness and efficiency of existing authorities.
    In addition to GNA, NASF acknowledges and thanks the Committee for 
a number of reauthorizations and expansions of cross-boundary and 
Federal forest management authorities in the Farm, Food, and National 
Security Act of 2024, including:

   Reauthorization of Cross-boundary Hazardous Fuel Reduction 
        Projects (Section 8202)--The threat posed by wildland fire 
        requires a comprehensive all-lands approach to proactive forest 
        management and prevent the spread of wildfire between 
        jurisdictions. First championed by then-Senator Ted Stevens in 
        Fiscal Year 2002, cross-boundary hazardous fuels reduction 
        funding is allocated by Congressional direction to facilitate 
        coordinated fuels reduction on private lands in proximity to 
        National Forest System lands. This critical funding has 
        provided flexibility for the Forest Service to use the money 
        where it provides the most benefit for community protection. 
        With inconsistent national distribution of this capacity under 
        the Fiscal Year 2025 Continuing Resolution, we look forward to 
        working with the Committee to reauthorize this authority in the 
        2025 Farm Bill.

   Amending the Definition of At-Risk Community (Section 
        8201)--The Healthy Forest Restoration Act contains a 
        problematic definition for ``at-risk community'' which is 
        restricted to wildland urban interface communities only within 
        the vicinity of Federal lands. This language has long been 
        viewed as a problem by NASF because it excludes communities 
        that have been identified as ``at-risk'' by state wildfire risk 
        assessments and other collaboratively developed tools used by 
        Federal and state agencies, such as the Pacific Northwest 
        Quantitative Wildfire Risk Assessment and the Southern Wildfire 
        Risk Assessment Portal.

   National Forest System Management Authorities (Sections 
        8402, 8403, 8404, and 8411)--NASF is grateful for the 
        Committee's inclusion of the ``Cottonwood Fix''--clarifying the 
        criteria under which Federal land managers are not required to 
        re-initiate Endangered Species Act consultation--and the 
        reauthorization and expansion of categorical exclusions for 
        wildfire resilience projects, fuel breaks, and insect and 
        disease projects. These provisions can meaningfully increase 
        the pace and scale of cross-boundary forest management and 
        wildfire mitigation work.

   Joint Chiefs' Landscape Restoration Partnership Program 
        (Section 8420)--NASF appreciates the Committee extending the 
        authorization for the Joint Chiefs' Program which--through 
        bringing to bear resources and expertise of the Forest Service 
        and the Natural Resources Conservation Service--has improved 
        the health and resilience of forest landscapes across National 
        Forest System lands and state, Tribal, and private land.
Sustaining Active Management of State and Private Forests through the 
        Farm Bill
    Since the turn of the 20th century, Congress has recognized and 
reinforced the need for partnership between the Federal Government and 
states for the benefit of actively managing all of America's forests--
private, state, and Federal. Only a few years after the Forest Service 
was created, Congress created the nexus between the Forest Service and 
State Forestry Agencies with the Weeks Act of 1911 and the Clarke-
McNary Act of 1924, authorizing technical and financial assistance to 
states for wildfire control and post-fire reforestation. Subsequent 
legislative milestones in the form of the Cooperative Forest Management 
Act of 1950, the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act of 1978, the 1990 
Farm Bill, and every farm bill since have further provided 
Congressional direction and authorities to the Forest Service and its 
role as a key partner to State Forestry Agencies in the active 
management of state and private forestlands.
    Forested lands in Utah are one of the state's most valuable natural 
resources. They provide scenic beauty, wildlife habitat, clean air and 
supply timber products. Most of the forested lands in the state are 
held by private landowners or by the Forest Service. Each of the 
Division's 6 area offices employs a forester who works with landowners 
and to provide assistance to those wishing to utilize, improve or 
conserve their forested lands, this includes reducing the risk of 
catastrophic wildfire. This is made possible through Congressional 
direction, authorities and funding. It plays an important role in the 
work we do in Utah and creates direct results on the ground cross-
boundary benefiting communities and future generations to come.
    NASF is grateful for the Committee's work in the Farm, Food, and 
National Security Act of 2024 to capture a number of State Foresters' 
key national priorities to sustain the active management of state and 
private forestlands--or \2/3\ of all forests nationwide--including:

   State Forest Action Plan Implementation Capacity (Section 
        8101)--Mandated by the 2008 Farm Bill, State Forest Action 
        Plans offer practical and comprehensive roadmaps for investing 
        Federal, state, local, and private resources where they can be 
        most effective in achieving national conservation goals. 
        Collectively, State Forest Action Plans make up one strategic 
        plan for America's forests. States have consistently advocated 
        for funding flexibility--that is the ability for each state to 
        receive funds that allow for the use of all the authorities of 
        the Cooperative Forestry Assistance Act. By eliminating the 
        color of money associated with several different Federal 
        programs, State Forestry Agencies will be able to more 
        effectively utilize the resources needed to implement the 
        forest management goals of their individual State Forest Action 
        Plans, while bringing state, nonprofit, and philanthropic 
        support that states are uniquely able to unlock.

   Supporting Reforestation through the Forest Service's 
        Reforestation, Nurseries and Genetic Resources (RNGR) Program 
        (Section 8305)--First created in 2001, the Forest Service's 
        RNGR Program provides assistance to states, Tribes and other 
        partners in native plant seed and seedling production, focusing 
        on adequate supplies of seedlings for conservation and 
        reforestation, propagation and planting methods, cost-effective 
        production and planting techniques, and--ultimately--tree 
        planting to address forest resilience, land reclamation, and 
        land rehabilitation after extreme fire events or other natural 
        disasters impacting forests. However, because the program has 
        been governed through Memorandums of Understanding between 
        agency deputy areas rather than as a standalone program, the 
        significant national reforestation demands on Federal, state, 
        and private lands, and an estimated $160 million in unmet 
        infrastructure needs at state and Tribal nurseries that serve 
        all landownerships, codifying and resourcing the RNGR Program 
        is critical. We greatly appreciate the Committee's work on 
        including this provision and ask for the addition of a critical 
        pay-for mechanism--identified funding from the Forest Service's 
        Reforestation Trust Fund--that is important for ensuring the 
        permanent nursery infrastructure program does not redirect 
        funds from other programs necessary for executing national 
        forestry priorities.

   Bolstering the Emergency Forest Restoration Program (Section 
        8708)--The Emergency Forest Restoration Program--administered 
        by the Farm Service Agency with technical expertise from the 
        Forest Service--was codified in the 2008 Farm Bill and has 
        proven to be woefully inadequate and too cumbersome for most 
        landowners to benefit from. NASF applauds the work of the 
        Committee to allow for impacted private forest landowners to 
        receive 75 percent of cost of payment up front, as opposed to a 
        program design based on reimbursement. Timely and ecologically 
        proper timber salvage and reforestation helps ensure our 
        nation's private forestlands continue to provide public 
        benefits like clean air and water, recreational opportunities, 
        rural economic stimulus and more.

    NASF also looks forward to working with the Committee to address 
two further priorities as it considers a 2025 Farm Bill:

   Utilizing the Conservation Reserve Program--In the face of 
        increasing conversion of farm and forestland to other uses like 
        commercial and residential development and the more recent 
        proliferation of solar farms--especially in the southeastern 
        United States--the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is a 
        critical incentive for keeping forests as forests. CRP-trees 
        acres under contract have declined precipitously in the past 
        decade and to reverse this trend, changes to current policy are 
        needed. These include allowing more re-enrollment opportunities 
        for stands of trees of all species on the condition they are 
        being actively managed to maintain healthy stand conditions, 
        financial support of mid-contract management through thinning 
        and prescribed fire, and allowing for the eventuality of 
        harvesting stands at maturity as part of sustainable forest 
        management. CRP-tree contracts are a high priority for states 
        in many parts of the country, especially the pine belt in the 
        South. These policy needs would allow for states to retain 
        discretion on setting their own priorities for CRP.

   Modernizing Eligibility for the Forest Service's Volunteer 
        Fire Assistance Program--The Volunteer Fire Assistance (VFA) 
        Program provides financial capacity to volunteer fire 
        departments (VFDs) protecting small, rural communities. State 
        and locals respond to 80 percent of wildland fires nationwide 
        and with expansion of the wildland-urban interface, the 
        frequency and complexity of fire has necessitated improved 
        collaboration with volunteer organizations. However, the 
        program's statutory eligibility requirements are over 40 years 
        old and do not acknowledge the reduced volunteerism, population 
        growth in areas served by existing VFDs, and some challenges in 
        VFDs meeting the match requirements. NASF is aligned with the 
        National Volunteer Fire Council and the International 
        Association of Fire Chiefs in proposing changing the qualifying 
        community population threshold from 10,000 to 15,000 or less, 
        changing the percent volunteer firefighting personnel threshold 
        from 80 percent to 70 percent or more, and allowing for 
        Secretarial discretion on waiving match requirement for VFDs, 
        similar to other fire and forestry programs.
Conclusion
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Subcommittee 
today and provide testimony on behalf of NASF. We appreciate the 
ongoing work of this Subcommittee to provide Federal and state forest 
managers, as well as private landowners, with tools that increase the 
pace and scale of active forest management, cross-boundary work, and 
rapid and effective response to insects, disease and wildland fire. We 
look forward to working with the Subcommittee, the Full Committee, and 
our Federal partners to provide the collective insights of the nation's 
State Foresters in a final 2025 Farm Bill.
    I look forward to answering any questions the Subcommittee may 
have.

    The Chairman. Perfect. Thank you Ms. Barnes. Appreciate 
your testimony. I now will recognize our next witness, Mr. 
Scott Dane from the American Loggers Council. He is their 
executive director. Go ahead.

       STATEMENT OF BRADLEY ``SCOTT'' DANE, EXECUTIVE 
       DIRECTOR, AMERICAN LOGGERS COUNCIL, GILBERT, MN

    Mr. Dane. Chairman LaMalfa, Ranking Member Salinas, and 
Committee Members, on behalf of the American Loggers Council, I 
want to thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding 
promoting forest health and resiliency through improved active 
management. I am the Executive Director of the American Loggers 
Council, which represents members in 49 states.
    I would like to begin by addressing silviculture forest 
management, which is the science of controlling the 
establishment, growth, composition, and health of forests and 
woodlands, and societal objectives, such as producing timber, 
maintaining wildlife habitat, improving forest health, 
recreation, and protecting watersheds on a sustainable basis. 
This is accomplished by a range of practices, including 
planting, thinning, and harvesting, to guide the development of 
forests stands for desired outcomes. These sustainable forest 
management activities are not being fully utilized on National 
Forests, particularly as they apply to timber harvesting over 
the past few decades.
    The volume of timber harvest on National Forests has 
declined by over 75 percent. Additionally, silvicultural 
standards establish tree stand densities, trees per acre, that 
is optimal for achieving healthy forest objectives. According 
to top forest researchers, low-density stands that largely 
eliminate tree competition are key to creating forest 
resilience to the multiple stressors of severe wildfire, 
drought, bark beetles, and climate change. They conclude that 
managing for resilience requires drastically reducing 
densities, as much as 80 percent of trees in some cases.
    Tree mortality for the first time, according to the U.S. 
Forest Service reports, exceeds tree growth by two times. Let 
me repeat that: twice as many trees are dying in the National 
Forests than are growing. Much of this mortality is driven by 
wildfire. It is not timber harvesting. Timber harvesting only 
represents 25 percent of the net tree growth, and seven times 
more trees are dying than are being harvested. Logging isn't 
the problem. In fact, it is a solution. These statistics 
clearly indicate that National Forest management policy for the 
past 3 decades has not worked. The health of our National 
Forests are in decline.
    This brings me to wildfire. Millions of acres of forest 
burn annually. Fire science is basic. Three components are 
necessary for fire: an ignition source, quite often, lightning 
strikes, oxygen, and fuel. The only one that we can control is 
fuel, and in the case of wildfires, unhealthy forests that are 
overstocked and filled with dying and dead timber. In an effort 
to begin reducing hazardous fuels from National Forest lands, 
the American Loggers Council, in partnership with the U.S. 
Forest Service, developed a Biomass Transportation Incentive 
Pilot Project, which removed 120,000 green tons of hazardous 
fuels, primarily biomass, and utilized it as feedstock for 
biomass power generation. This successful demonstration evolved 
into the USDA U.S. Forest Service Hazardous Fuels 
Transportation Assistance Program that continues to remove 
hazardous fuels from the National Forest landscape. This public 
and private partnership is one of the many opportunities 
available to collaboratively mitigate wildfire threats and 
severity by reducing fuel loads and addressing the backlog of 
landscape treatment.
    The U.S. Forest Service has developed a wildfire crisis 
strategy to begin addressing 50 million acres of high-risk 
forest firesheds. The primary component of the wildfire crisis 
strategy is fuel--timber--reduction. This Administration 
recognizes these facts and has issued numerous Executive 
Orders, initiated trade investigations, issued policy 
directives, and taken other actions to improve forest 
management and support the timber and forest products 
industries. These directives need to be codified to ensure 
their long-term implementation. This crisis a problem decades 
in the making and will require decades to correct.
    The most comprehensive legislation to codify this and other 
forest management reforms is the Fix Our Forests Act. Passing 
this legislation will ensure the forest management and wildfire 
mitigation, regulations, policies, and procedures survive 
political cycles. With the new Congress and Administration, the 
American Loggers Council prepared a ``Roadmap to Recovery'' 
that identified the top seven priority issues and actionable 
Congressional administrative responses. I have included a copy 
with my testimony to be included in the Congressional record.
    With over 150 mills closed across the United States in the 
past 36 months, markets are seriously compromised. To promote 
forest health and resiliency through improved active 
management, markets are necessary. No markets, no management. 
We are at a crossroads. Congress and the Administration must 
take action to improve forest health through active management 
before the logging and mill infrastructure deteriorates to a 
point that forest management will no longer be possible. Thank 
you very much.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Dane follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Bradley ``Scott'' Dane, Executive Director, 
                 American Loggers Council, Gilbert, MN
                 
    Chairman LaMalfa and Committee Members, on behalf of the American 
Loggers Council, I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify 
regarding Promoting Forest Health and Resiliency Through Improved 
Active Management.
    I am the Executive Director of the American Loggers Council which 
represents members in 49 states.
    I would like to begin by addressing silviculture (forest 
management), which is the science of controlling the establishment, 
growth, composition, and health of forests and woodlands and societal 
objectives, such as producing timber, maintaining wildlife habitat, 
improving forest health, recreation, and protecting watersheds on a 
sustainable basis. This is accomplished by a range of practices 
including planting, thinning, and harvesting to guide the development 
of a forest stand for desired outcomes.
    These sustainable forest management activities are not being fully 
utilized on our National Forests, particularly as they apply to timber 
harvesting. Over the past few decades, the volume of timber harvest on 
National Forests has declined by over 75%, from a high of 13 billion 
board-feet to 3 billion board-feet.
    Additionally, silvicultural standards establish tree stand density 
(trees per acre) that is optimal for achieving healthy forest 
objectives. According to top forest researchers: ``. . . low-density 
stands that largely eliminate tree competition are key to creating 
forests resilient to the multiple stressors of severe wildfire, 
drought, bark beetles and climate change.'' They conclude that 
``managing for resilience requires drastically reducing densities--as 
much as 80% of trees, in some cases.'' \1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Operational resilience in western US frequent-fire forests: 
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/
S0378112721010975?dgcid=author#preview-section-abstract
    Authors: Malcolm P. North, USFS Pacific Southwest Research Station; 
Ryan E. Tompkins, Department of Plant Sciences, University of CA, 
Davis; Alexis A. Bernal, University of CA Cooperative Extension, 
Plumas-Sierra; Brandon M. Collins, Department of Environmental Science, 
Policy, and Management, Ecosystem Sciences Division, University of 
California, Berkeley; Scott L. Stephens, Center for Fire Research and 
Outreach, Univ. of CA, Berkeley; Robert A. York, USFS Pacific Southwest 
Research Station.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tree mortality for the first time (2016), according to USFS 
reports,\2\ exceeds tree growth by two times. Let me repeat that--twice 
as many trees are dying in the National Forests than are growing. Much 
of this mortality is driven by wildfire. It is not timber harvesting. 
Timber harvesting is only 25% of the net tree growth, and seven times 
more trees are dying than are being harvested. Logging isn't the 
problem; in fact, it is the solution. I have included a copy of this 
report for the Congressional record.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Annual Net Growth, Mortality, and Harvest on National Forest on 
National Forest Timberlands 1952-2016.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    These statistics clearly indicate that National Forest management 
policy for the past 3 decades has not worked. The health of National 
Forests is in severe decline.
    This brings me to wildfire. Millions of acres of forests burn 
annually. Fire science is basic. Three components are necessary for 
fire: an ignition source (quite often lightning strikes), oxygen, and 
fuel. The only one that we can control is fuel, and in the case of 
wildfires, unhealthy forests that are overstocked and filled with dying 
and dead timber.
    In an effort to begin reducing hazardous fuels from National Forest 
lands, the American Loggers Council, in partnership with the U.S. 
Forest Service, developed the Biomass Transportation Incentive Pilot 
project that removed 120,000 green tons of hazardous fuels (primarily 
biomass) and utilized it as feedstock for biomass power generation. 
This successful demonstration evolved into the USDA/USFS Hazardous 
Fuels Transportation Assistance Program that continues to remove 
hazardous fuels from National Forest landscapes.
    This public-private partnership is one of many opportunities 
available to collaboratively mitigate wildfire threats and severity by 
reducing fuel loads and addressing the backlog of landscape treatment.
    The USFS has developed a Wildfire Crisis Strategy to begin 
addressing 50 million acres of high-risk forest firesheds. The primary 
component of the Wildfire Crisis Strategy is fuel (timber) reduction.
    The Administration recognizes these facts and has issued numerous 
Executive Orders, initiated trade investigations, issued policy 
directives, and taken other actions to improve forest management and 
support the U.S. timber and forest products industries.
    These directives need to be codified to ensure their long-term 
implementation. This crisis is a problem--decades in the making and it 
will require decades to correct. The most comprehensive legislation to 
codify this and other forest management reforms is the Fix Our Forests 
Act. Passing this legislation will ensure that forest management and 
wildfire mitigation regulations, policies, and procedures survive 
political cycles.
    With the new Congress and Administration, the American Loggers 
Council prepared A Road Map to Recovery \3\ that identified the top 
seven priority issues and actionable Congressional and Administration 
responses. I have included a copy with my testimony to be included in 
the Congressional record.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ A Roadmap to Recovery, American Loggers Council 2025.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With over 150 mills closed across the country in the past 36 
months, markets are seriously compromised. To Promote Forest Health and 
Resiliency Through Improved Active Management, markets are necessary.
No Markets, No Management
    We are at a crossroads. Congress and the Administration must take 
action to improve forest health through active management, before the 
logging and mill infrastructure deteriorates to a point that forest 
management will not be possible.
                              attachment 1
Annual Net Growth, Mortality, and Harvest on National Forest 
        Timberlands--1952-2016
        
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
        
                              attachment 2

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


The Dawn of a New Age in the American Timber Industry--A Road Map to 
        Recovery
        
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
        
A Roadmap To Recovery of the U.S. Timber Industry
    The American Timber Industry is in a serious state of decline that 
threatens the entire forest products (paper, lumber, bioenergy) 
industry and public-private healthy forest management goals and 
objectives. Human infrastructure continues to age (average logger age 
over 55) and employment within the logging sector is declining 2% 
annually over the past 20 years. The logging sector is the first link 
in the forest industry supply chain supporting 900,000 jobs, with a 
$300 billion U.S. economic impact. All of this is supported by 50,000 
timber industry workers employed by small family multigenerational 
logging and trucking businesses, without which the entire timber and 
forest products industry would collapse. These jobs are rural in 
nature, but supply materials for products that all of American society 
depends on daily.
    The factors contributing to the decline of the U.S. timber and 
forest products industry have been identified and can be rectified 
through proper trade policy, active forest management practices, new 
forest products market development, maximizing transportation 
efficiency, workforce development, de-weaponizing obstructionist 
litigation, and favorable tax policy.
    All of the challenges and threats to the timber and forest products 
industry can be boiled down to one common denominator--markets. Markets 
drive investment, investment drives development, development drives 
competition, competition drives profitability, profitability drives 
competitiveness, and competitiveness drives wages/benefits.
    The following information identifies the priority issues and 
actions that can serve as a road map to the recovery of the U.S. timber 
and forest products industry that Congress and the Administration must 
undertake.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

National Forest Management
Issue: National Forest Management
    There is an obvious correlation between areas where declining 
National Forest management dominates the landscape--and the occurrence 
of unhealthy, overgrown and dense forests plagued by disease, 
infestation and wildfire.
    This National Forest decline creates a self-fulfilling downward 
spiral of reduced timber management and harvest volume leading to a 
loss of forest products mills/markets, which is then used to justify 
continued reduction in timber sales volume that is inadequate to 
support the supply needs of existing markets thereby causing the 
failure of remaining markets and perpetuating the circular downward 
spiral of forest health and industry. The end result of this harmful 
National Forest situation is forest deterioration by fire, disease and 
infestation. This deterioration fails to comply with the National 
Forest Management Act of 1976, which requires the U.S. Forest Service 
``to maintain effective land management''.
    National Forest Plans identify the Allowable Sale Quantity that can 
be harvested during a 10 year period, while maintaining sustainability 
based on areas suitable for timber production. The U.S. Forest Service 
and the Bureau of Land Management have failed to achieve this volume 
during the past 3 decades.
    The U.S. Forest Service currently harvests approximately 3 billion 
board-feet of lumber, compared to 13 billion board-feet 40 years ago. 
Today, the U.S. Forest Service spends more of their budget on wildfire 
response than forest management. Ironically, of the nearly 30,000 U.S. 
Forest Service employees, just 3% are foresters.
    In Minnesota, where the National Forests represent 11% of the 
forested land, it only contributes 4% of harvested timber. This trend 
is significantly multiplied in regions (western states) where the 
majority of public lands is managed by national agencies. These areas 
also experience higher mortality, wildfire, overstocking, and lost 
infrastructure. In contrast, regions that are majority privately 
managed land, forest health and markets are more productive, healthy 
and stable.
    The U.S. has an abundant renewable resource that can be sustainably 
managed to provide raw material for lumber and other forest products 
production if active forest management is returned to the public 
landscape.
    A commitment to increased forest management timber harvest volume 
will enable the remaining forest products industry infrastructure to 
maintain sustainability while conveying a commitment that will secure 
additional investment and growth. Thus, reversing the decline in 
National Forest management and timber industry infrastructure, as well 
as wildfire severity.
    The National Forests will be critical to support the development 
and expansion of domestic softwood lumber markets and the reduction in 
softwood lumber imports as noted in the first issue.
    Many rural counties and schools historically benefited from far 
greater National Forest timber sales revenue, due to their proximity to 
National Forests and the statutory timber harvest revenue sharing with 
counties and schools from those National Forests. In response to a 
reduction in timber management and sales--critical county and school 
revenues paid by National Forests have declined. To offset the losses 
and stabilize the revenue stream, Secure Rural Schools Funding (SRS) 
was established by Congress in 2000, which provides revenue to counties 
and schools. The Secure Rural Schools Funding represents a small 
fraction of county and school revenue received 40 years ago (In 2024, 
$250 million annually for 775 rural counties and 4,400 rural schools 
across the country). However, the Secure Rural Schools Funding expired 
at the end of 2024.
    Many policies, actions and Executive Orders are politically-driven 
to support environmental agendas, but have the unintended consequence 
of further obstructing active forest management. However, recent 
legislation has been introduced that would address and correct existing 
ill-conceived policies, actions and Executive Orders that are being 
abused in the furtherance of obstructing healthy forest management.
Action: Manage National Forests
   The Fix Our Forests Act (FOFA) is comprehensive legislation 
        that would address many of the known shortcomings and 
        challenges that are inhibiting proper forest management. This 
        FOFA bill should be priority legislation passed to immediately 
        realign the healthy forest management objectives for the 
        National Forests.

   Secure Rural Schools Act (SRS) reauthorization would be most 
        effective when paired with the Fix Our Forests Act (FOFA). 
        Passing these two bills together would accomplish the dual 
        benefits of improving National Forest management and 
        maintaining vital National Forest management revenue source for 
        rural counties, schools, forest management infrastructure, and 
        vibrant rural forest communities.

   The U.S. Forest Service must increase active forest 
        management and timber harvest as per their current volume 
        ``target''. This National Forest target is typically \1/2\ to 
        \1/3\ of the legally-authorized Allowable Sale Quantity; and 
        even at that reduced volume is rarely achieved. In Alaska, the 
        second largest National Forest, the Chugach has zero timber 
        harvest planned.

   Litigation Reform is addressed in the Fix Our Forest Act. 
        Additionally, require litigating parties challenging USFS 
        forest management plans and activities to have ``standing'' and 
        to post bonds sufficient to cover the costs of defense, loss of 
        property/lives due to delay, and timber contract holder lost 
        revenue should the challenge be denied.

   Direct the USFS to cease efforts based on EO 14072 to 
        inventory ``mature and old growth timber''.

   Reform the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). 
        Multiple bills have been introduced in the House of 
        Representatives to amend NEPA, which would address flaws in the 
        statute that have resulted in unreasonable timelines and 
        litigation.

   Pass a Congressional Review Act rescinding the uplisting of 
        the Northern Long Eared Bat from Threatened to Be Endangered. 
        This was passed in the House and Senate with bipartisan support 
        in 2023 but vetoed by President Biden.
Trade Policy
Issue: Trade Policy
    The U.S. is the leading global importer of softwood lumber. The 
primary source is Canada, followed by Brazil and China as well as 
Europe. The U.S. continues to import wood products (plywood) from 
Russia. In fact, manufactured wood products constituted over 50% of the 
trade between the U.S. and Russia in 2024, increasing 53% in the latter 
half of 2024. All while record numbers (100+) of forest products mills 
close in the U.S., millions of acres of U.S. forests burn annually, and 
over 10,000 jobs have been lost in the timber and forest products 
industries in the past 24 months.
    Clearly the U.S. demand and market exists for softwood lumber. The 
U.S. should not be supporting the timber industry of other countries at 
the demise of the U.S. forests and industry.
    Additionally, in some cases, raw timber is shipped from the U.S. 
(due to a lack of domestic mills that have gone offshore) to countries 
that process it into finished products and then ship it back to the 
U.S. markets.
    The U.S. practices third party certification silvicultural based 
forest management which ensures sustainable management of U.S. forests. 
Today's U.S. timberlands exceed the acres of timberlands from 100 years 
ago. U.S. forest management practices do not result in deforestation. 
The only deforestation that occurs in the U.S. is due to urban 
development and massive solar farms. Imposing additional redundant 
administrative management requirements, as per the European Union 
Deforestation Regulations, only adds more time and expense to the 
operations and reduces efficiency and competitiveness.
Action: Fair Trade
   Enact trade policy, including tariffs, to level the playing 
        field and allow for U.S. forest management, U.S. raw material 
        harvesting, U.S. forest products production, and create U.S. 
        jobs.

   Enact and enforce a full ban on Russian origin lumber.

   Inform the European Union that the United States has strict 
        sustainable forestry practices and standards recognized and, in 
        some cases, originating in Europe that ensure no deforestation 
        practices are conducted. In fact, the forested area of the 
        United States has increased over what it was 100 years ago. 
        Therefore, the U.S. will not be implementing the unnecessary 
        requirement of the ill-conceived European Union Deforestation 
        Regulations (EUDR). The EUDR is an environmental driven 
        initiative to further obstruct the timber industry, add 
        uncompensated costs, and generally a solution looking for a 
        problem where, regarding the U.S., one does not exist.
Safer Transportation
Issue: Interstate Truck Weight Restrictions
    The U.S. transportation policy and inconsistencies creates a 
competitive burden for agricultural products, including raw timber. 
Weight limits on the Federal interstate systems vary drastically for 
timber products, although it is the same interstate system. Foreign 
transportation policy allows for heavier transportation weights than 
parts of the United States.

                    Log Truck Weight Limits Examples
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Canada (national roadways)           140,000 (up to) pounds based on
                                      configuration
Michigan (164,000)                   164,000 pounds w/11 axles
New England (2010 pilot, 2017        100,000/99,000 pounds w/6 axles
 permanent)                           (Maine/Vermont)
Minnesota (2015. Limited to 23       99,000 Winter w/6 axles
 miles)
Mississippi (2024)                   88,000 pounds w/5 axles
Wisconsin (2015. Limited to          100,000 winter w/6 axles
 designated routes)
North Carolina (new interstates      88,000 pounds w/5 axles
 grandfathered in at state weights)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Aside from these variances, states are restricted to 80,000 pounds 
on their respective interstates.
    The Minnesota Department of Transportation, the University of 
Georgia, State of Mississippi, State of Maine, and other sources have 
conducted studies and analysis of the road impacts, safety, braking 
capacity, fuel consumption (mpg), CO2 emissions, miles 
traveled, and truck trips of various configurations of logging trucks 
using the Federal interstate system. All have concluded that there are 
benefits in every category, particularly safety.

    A recent study found that nearly 78% of all log truck fatal crashes 
occurred in the Southeast region of the U.S. In these states, oncoming 
cars infringing on the logging trucks' lanes were the leading cause of 
logging truck accidents.

    Routing these trucks off rural roadways, school zones, residential 
neighborhoods, pedestrian areas, and narrower two-lane opposing traffic 
routes will reduce accidents and improve safety.
    The State of Maine documented a reduction in logging truck 
accidents after they were authorized to access the Federal interstate 
system.
    Logging truck interstate access is already authorized in many 
states. The Federal precedent has been established in Minnesota, 
Wisconsin, Mississippi, Maine, Vermont, North Carolina, and Michigan. 
Identical language and legislation should extend Federal interstate 
access to allow log trucks already operating on local, county and state 
roads in each state as per their own criteria to utilize the Federal 
interstate road system. The Safe Routes Act has been introduced in 
Congress with Bipartisan support annually.
    Additionally, the commercial trucking sector is experiencing severe 
a driver shortage with a projected 60,000 commercial truck drivers 
needed. This is even more pronounced within the log truck driving 
category due to the unique aspects of hauling logs. Improving 
transportation efficiency will enable the log trucking sector of the 
timber industry to do more with less.
Action: Improving Transportation Safety and Efficiency
    Congress must immediately pass the ``Safe Routes Act'' to 
universally provide the authorization of each respective state to pass 
legislation at the state level extending access to the Federal 
interstate systems as per their current weight limits and criteria.

   The Administration should issue an Executive Order 
        authorizing states to authorize commercial trucks currently 
        operating within their intrastate road system (non-Federal), 
        and at weights/configurations to extend operation of these 
        commercial vehicles to the Federal interstate system.

   Incentivize commercial truck driver entry through refundable 
        tax credits of up to $7,500 for Class A Commercial Drivers 
        License (CDL) operators as per the bipartisan 2022 
        ``Strengthening Supply Chains Through Truck Driver Incentives 
        Act.''
Renewable Fuel Standard
Issue: Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS)
    The Renewable Fuel Standard was established by the Energy Policy 
Act of 2005 and expanded by the Energy Independence and Security Act of 
2007 for the purpose of; reducing the country's reliance on foreign 
oil; grow the renewable energy industry; and reduce greenhouse gas 
emissions. The program is implemented by the EPA in ``consultation'' 
with USDA and DOE.
    There are four renewable fuel categories:

   Biomass based diesel

   Cellulosic biofuels

   Advanced biofuel

   Total renewable fuel

    Within these categories there are five subcategories or silos 
describing the various Renewable Index Numbers (RIN's) per specific 
type of renewable fuel. The D3 and D7 RIN's are cellulosic based 
produced from cellulose, hemicellulose, or lignin. This would include 
forest-based feedstock.
    D3 and D7 cellulosic renewable fuels have never been commercially 
produced and is confirmed by the EPA who have developed Cellulosic 
Waiver Credits due to ``recognizing the short-term difficultly in 
attaining required volumes of cellulosic standards.''
    However, there are billions of dollars in investment prepared to 
produce D3 and D7 cellulosic renewable fuels, including sustainable 
aviation fuel (SAF) upon approval of project pathway applications. The 
only obstacles are EPA's timely Pathway application response and 
approval and overly restrictive ``interpretation'' of eligible forest-
based feedstock (contrary to USDA USFS consultation). There are 
millions of tons of unmerchantable timber, biomass and hazardous fuels 
available as feedstock for the production of D3 and D7 cellulosic 
renewable fuels.

    The USFS Wildfire Crisis Strategy recognizes the need to treat 50 
million acres, including hazardous fuels that are feeding the 
wildfires. The challenge is what to do with this otherwise 
unmerchantable biomass. The answer is to use it as feedstock for 
renewable fuels production.

    The EPA's position on Pathway Application processing is to address 
each application on a case-by-case basis. This creates uncertainty and 
delays the collective processing of similar projects. Approval of the 
known projects to produce cellulosic renewable fuels will compliment 
the U.S. energy independence agenda and produce new and much needed 
forest product markets.
    Nearly 15 years ago the EPA recognized that electricity derived 
from renewable biomass qualified as a renewable transportation fuel as 
part of the 2010 RFS2 Rule, but the EPA has failed to comply with the 
language in their own rule and activate the electric pathway. With the 
emergence of electric vehicles, which represent 9% of vehicle market 
share, the EPA's delay jeopardizes legally obligated revenue streams 
and fiscal viability of these biomass electric generation facilities.
    The EPA has failed to implement the full scope of the RFS as per 
the Congressional Intent.
    The EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality (OTAQ), Office of 
Air and Radiation (OAR) does not have the background, understanding, or 
expertise of forest-based cellulosic feedstock and forest management 
practices to effectively administer or process the Pathway Applications 
for D3 and D7 RIN's projects. EPA has not collectively deferred to 
USDA/USFS expertise, advice, and direction regarding forest management 
practices and timber source marketing/value.
Action: RFS Administration
   The RFS program must be moved from OTAQ, OAR to the USDA/
        USFS or other administration authority that is knowledgeable in 
        forest-based feedstock (biomass, hazardous fuels, 
        unmerchantable timber, cull wood, etc.) or headed by a 
        political appointee with a Memorandum of Understanding with the 
        USDA/USFS.

   All Pathway Applications must be reviewed, processed and 
        approved/disapproved within ninety days of submission.

   Recognize forest-based biomass as a renewable carbon neutral 
        feedstock for electrical power generation and renewable fuel 
        production, as practiced by the rest of the developed global 
        countries.

   Include e-RIN's (renewable electricity generated from 
        forest-based renewable feedstock) as eligible for RIN credits. 
        This renewable energy displaces petroleum-based fuel and can be 
        traced to electric vehicle charging. Therefore, it accomplishes 
        the goals of the ``reducing the country's reliance on foreign 
        oil; grows the renewable energy industry (particularly 
        hazardous fuels identified in the Wildfire Crisis Strategy); 
        and reduces greenhouse gas emissions.'' These facilities can 
        address the projected demand for additional baseload 
        electricity to feed the grid more readily, cost-effectively, 
        and quickly than larger traditional power plants while 
        replacing the many coal power plants that are shutdown or 
        scheduled for shutdown.

   Amend EPA's biomass definition in the proposed Renewable 
        Volume Obligations (RVO) rule pending issuance in March 2025 to 
        expand ``biomass obtained from certain areas at risk of 
        wildfire from 200 feet to 1.5 miles of buildings or other areas 
        regularly occupied by people, or of public infrastructure.''
Workforce Development
Issue: Workforce Development
    The demographics of the timber industry workforce are well 
documented to be aging, with over half 55+ years old (2017) and a 
declining total workforce of 2% annually as referenced. Surveys of 
existing logging businesses also revealed the majority were owned by 
individuals 55 years or older. Many of their succession plans do not 
include passing on the family business but instead closing the 
business. This aging workforce and ownership is going to compound the 
workforce shortage in the next 5-10 years.

   Wage and Benefit Competitiveness

   Seasonality

   Profitability

   Public Perception/Image

    There has been trade school programs developed around the country; 
however, they typically train small numbers (10-12 students) per 
session.
    Starting or maintaining a logging business is capital intensive 
requiring millions of dollars in investment, with the profit margins of 
1-3% for many companies, and significant risk and uncertainty. Most 
logging companies do not have binding volume or price contracts with 
mills that they do business with. Volumes and rates paid are commonly 
reduced by the mills with a phone call, text, or letter with minimal 
recourse from the logger.
    Seasonal harvest windows have created operational restrictions that 
render employment within the sector as seasonal. Maintaining a skilled 
workforce in a seasonally limited environment is challenging and 
undermines the employment sustainability within the logging workforce. 
Coupled with long hours, harsh environment, and operational hazards 
without commiserate compensation and benefits, these factors have a 
negative impact in attracting young new workers into the industry.
    Logging businesses are small family-owned multigenerational 
agricultural businesses very similar to farming. In recognition of the 
workforce structure and succession of farming businesses, farmers are 
able to integrate their family members that are 16-17 years old in the 
``mechanized'' operation of farming equipment to facilitate learning 
the operations and for future succession.

    Exemptions to the Hazardous Occupations (HO) Orders do not apply to 
youth employed or operated by their parents. At age 16 minors can 
perform any farm job, including those declared hazardous by the 
Secretary of Labor. In other occupations minors are not allowed to 
perform hazardous work until the age of 18. Ref. U.S. Department of 
Labor

    Loggers are not currently specifically permitted this exemption, 
although the Department of Labor Child Labor Bulletin 102 states:

          The Hazardous Occupations (HO) Orders for Agricultural 
        Employment, Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides a minimum 
        age of 16 years for any agricultural occupations which the 
        Secretary of Labor finds and declares to be particularly 
        hazardous for persons under the age of 16. The Secretary of 
        Labor has found and declared that the following occupations are 
        hazardous for minors under 16 years of age: Felling, bucking, 
        skidding, loading or unloading timber with butt diameter of 
        more than 6"[.]

    This could be interpreted to allow for ``logging operations'' to be 
conducted by agricultural workers 16 years and older.

          Note: Contrary to Bureau of Labor Statistics reporting (i.e., 
        Logging Industry Most Dangerous Occupation), a review of all 
        injury and fatality reports found the reporting criteria is 
        skewed and misleading. The American Loggers Council met with 
        the Bureau of Labor Statistics in Washington DC to review their 
        data. That meeting revealed that the report of fatalities per 
        100,000 (98/100,000) employees was extrapolated since there are 
        only 40,000-50,000 loggers in the workforce and for the year 
        reviewed was actually 47 fatalities. Of those, 80% were non-
        mechanized operations (i.e., chainsaws and hand-felling) and 
        some were log truck accidents. When adjusted for these factors, 
        actual mechanized logging operations fatalities would be 
        approximately ten per year or extrapolated to be \20/100000\--
        comparable to the agricultural sector at \23/100000\, the 
        second highest fatality rate.
Action: Logging is Agriculture
   The same opportunity for family members 16-17 years old to 
        operate ``mechanized'' logging equipment should be extended to 
        family logging businesses. The mechanization of the logging 
        industry is the single largest factor that has contributed to 
        improving safety. This legislation has been introduced with 
        bipartisan support into Congress for many years in the form of 
        the Future Logging Careers Act. This is the most readily 
        available pipeline for workforce entry and family business 
        succession.

   Trade schools specializing in logging industry workforce 
        training should receive Federal support and investment to 
        provide cost free tuition to prospective students. Efforts to 
        recruit at risk, under-served demographics, including an 
        emphasis on rural and urban areas should be a targeted focus. 
        Employers hiring from these programs should receive an 
        ``apprentice'' tax credit for the first year.
Taxes
Issue: Tax Burden Holding Back Investment
    The Federal Excise Tax on heavy trucks was first enacted in 1917 
(3%) to help pay for World War I and is the highest excise tax levied 
by the Federal Government. Over the course of 100 years the tax was 
repealed (1924), reinstated (1932 at 2% due to the depression), 
increased in 1941 (2.5%) and 1941 (5%) during WWII, 1951 (8% due to the 
Korean War), 1956 (10% for the formation of the National Interstate 
Highway Program), 1972 scheduled to be reduced to 5%, but due to 
ongoing interstate construction and overruns is maintained at 10%, 1975 
Senate votes to repeal, but House does not, 1982 increased to 12% and 
extended to present day.
    This tax adds more than $30,000 to the cost of new trucks and 
trailers. Off-highway equipment such as agriculture, earthmoving, 
forestry and mining machinery are exempt from the tax. This tax is paid 
at the time of sale on new trucks (not used since the excise tax has 
already been levied when new), which consequently incentivizes the 
purchase of used trucks over new trucks.
    The Federal Excise Tax on new over the road trucks disincentivizes 
purchasing new trucks that are safer, more efficient, and produce less 
carbon emissions. Half of the Class 8 trucks on the road today are over 
10 years old and lack the cleaner technologies and fuel efficiency 
gains of today's new trucks.
    The price of conventional diesel trucks ($150,000+) has increased 
over 50% in 10 years, and the price of electric trucks ($250,000+) is 
nearly double the price of a standard diesel truck. The Federal Excise 
Tax is 12%. While the taxable value has increased significantly, the 
Federal Excise Tax has remained the same, generating a disproportionate 
amount of additional revenue at the expense of the consumer.
    The timber industry provides the forest-based feedstock to biomass 
power plants. These markets are critical to comprehensive forest 
management operations and particularly the removal of hazardous fuels. 
In the realm of the renewable energy environment (wind, solar, biomass) 
60% of renewable energy consumed in the U.S. is derived from biomass 
according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. However, the 
biomass renewable energy sector is at risk of losing IRS tax code 
sections 45Y and 48E production and investment tax credits in the 
Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 due to a lack of guidance from the 
Biden Administration. This creates an untenable uncertainty for 
renewable biomass power facilities.
Action: Reduce Taxes to Support Economic Investment and Growth
   Reduce or eliminate the Federal Excise Tax on Commercial 
        Trucks. This funding ($5 billion annually) has been included in 
        the Highway Trust Fund. The question is how to keep the Highway 
        Trust Fund whole with the elimination or reduction in this 
        revenue stream.

   Considering the significant increase in truck and trailer 
        value over the past 10 years, a 50% reduction in the Federal 
        Excise Tax, from 12% to 6% would theoretically generate the 
        same revenue as 2013.

   Another alternative would be to backfill the Federal Excise 
        Tax revenue with a 2.5 per gallon fuel tax. The U.S. consumes 
        135 billion gallons of gas annually and 45 billion gallons of 
        diesel fuel. A 2.5 per gallon tax will generate $4.5 billion 
        annually. This would allow for the full elimination of the 
        Federal Excise Tax.

   Transferring the fee to the actual vehicles impacting the 
        Highway system upon annual registration is a simple alternative 
        that will capture all vehicles including electric vehicles. 
        With 283,000,000 private vehicles and three million commercial 
        trucks, a flat $20 per vehicle registration annually will fully 
        offset the $5 billion current Federal Excise Tax.

   Regarding Clean Electricity Production and Investment Tax 
        Credits (Sections 45Y, 48E and 45Z) for Renewable Biomass Power 
        generating facilities, Congress and the Administration must 
        provide immediate clarity through the Department of Treasury 
        and the Internal Revenue Service of eligibility. The lack of 
        direction and certainty from the Biden Administration has left 
        the renewable biomass industry in a compromised position that 
        threatens the vital role these facilities represent in 
        renewable energy production, timber industry markets, forest 
        management and wildfire mitigation.
Disaster Assistance
Issue: Preserving Critical Infrastructure
    Natural disasters impact the agricultural sector through floods, 
hurricanes, droughts, infestations and wildfires. The USDA Federal Crop 
Insurance Program protects agricultural producers from losses due to 
natural disasters or price fluctuations.
    Timber Is Agriculture. However, timber crops do not receive similar 
protection. Loggers represent critical infrastructure and were deemed 
essential during the Pandemic. The Pandemic Assistance for Harvesters 
and Haulers (PATHH) provided funding ($200 million) to offset the 
financial losses during this period.
    Due to recent hurricanes, drought and beetle infestations $1.6 
billion is being considered to provide assistance to private timberland 
owners to recover from losses associated with natural disasters.
    Preserving private timberlands and the service contractor 
infrastructure is necessary to support the entire forest products 
industry. Assistance programs in response (after the fact) to natural 
and economic disasters do not provide certainty, encourage investment, 
nor provide timely assistance. The need for these assurances for other 
agricultural sectors is recognized and available. Establishing standing 
programs for the timber industry will provide parity and protection 
that other agriculture commodities receive.
Action
   Pass the bipartisan Loggers Economic Assistance and Relief 
        Act that has been introduced in the House and Senate.
        
        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
        
                          Gifford Pinchot famously wrote in Breaking 
                        New Ground, ``Forestry is Tree Farming. 
                        Forestry is handling trees so that one crop 
                        follows another. To grow trees as a crop is 
                        Forestry.''

                          The father of forestry and the first Chief of 
                        the U.S. Forest Service

                        Contact

    Scott Dane, Executive Director, 
[email protected], 202-627-6961

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

          ``First and foremost, you can never afford to forget for one 
        moment what is the object of the forest policy. Primarily that 
        object is not to preserve forests because they are beautiful--
        though that is good in itself--not to preserve them because 
        they are refuges for the wild creatures of the wilderness--
        though that too is good in itself--but the primary objective of 
        the forest policy as of the land policy of the United States, 
        is the making of prosperous homemaking of our country. Every 
        other consideration comes as secondary. The whole effort of the 
        government in dealing with the forests must be directed to this 
        end.''
                                                Theodore Roosevelt 1903

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Dane. Appreciate your 
testimony.
    We will now go to our next witness Carrie Monohan, who is 
the Director of Natural Resources at the Mooretown Rancheria of 
Maidu Indians in northern California. You have 5 minutes.

        STATEMENT OF  CARRIE MONOHAN, Ph.D.,  DIRECTOR OF 
          NATURAL RESOURCES, MOORETOWN RANCHERIA OF MAIDU 
          INDIANS, OROVILLE, CA

    Dr. Monohan. Thank you, Chairman Thompson, Chairman 
LaMalfa, Ranking Member Salinas, and other Subcommittee 
Members, for the opportunity to speak here today.
    As you recognized in your remarks, we face a nationwide 
forest health crisis, and in the West, fires are the number one 
public safety, forest health, and environmental concern. 
Healthy forests are critical to the environment and to the 
economy, to rural communities and to Tribes. Tribal 
governments, like Mooretown Rancheria, a federally-recognized 
Tribe in northern California, can be a force multiplier to 
address this crisis, and we are already doing so through an 
innovative model using the Service First authority.
    Committee Members likely recall the Camp Fire, which 
destroyed the Town of Paradise and took 85 lives in 2018. But 
since that time, we have also faced the 320,000 acre North 
Complex fire, the million acre Dixie Fire, and just last year, 
the Park Fire. Our community is ground zero of the National 
Forest health crisis, and while we have cultural and economic 
purposes for our forest management efforts, it is also a matter 
of necessity. I am here today to tell you about the Service 
First model, which can be used to rapidly address forest 
management needs across the nation without requiring new 
legislation or regulatory changes. At the same time, using 
Service First with Tribes can support Tribal economic 
development and bring to bear the skills and knowledge of those 
who have managed our forest for thousands of years.
    Under the Service First model, the Bureau of Indian Affairs 
and the Forest Service enter into an interagency agreement, 
including Mooretown as an implementing partner. Forest Service 
funds are transferred to the Interior, then to a trust account 
held on the Tribe's behalf, and as work is completed, the Tribe 
is reimbursed for expenses incurred. It is important to note 
that Mooretown does not just work on our reservation and does 
not just work on the aboriginal territories of the Tribe, but 
that we provide forest management anywhere it is needed. For 
example, when Congress appropriated wildfire crisis funding, 
that funding was directed to National Forests designated as 
wildfire crisis landscapes. A number of National Forests in 
California and Nevada initiated interagency agreements with the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs and Mooretown to fund fuels reduction 
and ecosystem-enhancement projects. This included removing 
hazard trees, creating fuel breaks in the wildland-urban 
interface, and road repair to restore access.
    Our crews are working as I speak on fuels reduction 
projects under those agreements, using both hand crews and a 
fleet of large equipment like masticators and log processors. 
However, we have experienced some challenges in working with 
the Forest Service under this model. We found that Forest 
Service personnel can be hesitant to use new tools like the 
Service First model unless they already have done so 
previously. We have found that capacity challenges in some of 
the districts have actually precluded them from approving 
projects supported by outside grant funding. Even when funding 
is available, environmental review complete, and we have an 
existing interagency agreement, we rely on Forest Service 
personnel to prepare scopes of work. We found that remaining 
staff often have not been trained to develop these key planning 
materials, and we have seen an exodus of older, experienced 
personnel.
    To address many of these challenges, we have hired retired 
Forest Service employees, who can write the scopes of work and 
that are from the districts we work in, know what work is ready 
to proceed, and can coordinate with remaining Forest Service 
staff to help them use existing agreements and create new ones. 
In addition, we have had preliminary discussions with Forest 
Service leadership about developing training to ensure 
personnel are familiar with the Service First model and know 
its advantages. We are fighting a war on catastrophic wildfire, 
and we are trying to get ahead of it with basic forestry 
practices while recovering from decades of forest mismanagement 
in an era where the Forest Service is reeling from major 
personnel reductions. In summary, Mooretown forestry has 
demonstrated that Tribes using interagency agreements with the 
BIA and Forest Service is the most efficient means of deploying 
forest management funding, and it is working. Looking forward, 
we hope that the Committee will support more widespread 
adoption of the Service First model, help us secure training 
for Forest Service personnel, and, when appropriating forest 
management and wildfire crisis funding, recognize that Service 
First is the most efficient means of getting projects underway.
    Finally, I would like to close by thanking Chairman LaMalfa 
for his long-term support of the Tribe and our forestry 
program, and Chairman Thompson and Chairman LaMalfa for 
visiting us in northern California to view the impacts of 
wildfire firsthand, and for inviting the Tribe here today.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Monohan follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Carrie Monohan, Ph.D., Director of Natural 
     Resources, Mooretown Rancheria of Maidu Indians, Oroville, CA
     
    Chairman LaMalfa, Ranking Member Salinas, thank you for the 
opportunity to address the Subcommittee. As you recognized in your 
remarks, we face a nationwide forest health crisis and in the West 
fires are the number one public safety, forest health, and 
environmental concern. Healthy forests are critical to the environment 
and the economy, to rural communities and Tribes. Tribal governments 
like Mooretown Rancheria, a federally recognized Tribe in northern 
California, can be a force multiplier to address this crisis, and we 
are already doing so through an innovative model using the Service 
First authority.
    Mooretown Rancheria is located in Bute County, California. The 
Maidu peoples' ancestral lands stretch from Mount Lassen in the North 
to the Yuba River in the South, from the Sacramento River in the West 
over the crest of the Sierra Nevada Mountains to Honey Lake in the 
East. Within these lands are three National Forests and a National 
Park, along with several state parks and other public lands. 
Mooretown's members historically worked largely in California's forest 
products industry and many lived in the town of Feather Falls, until it 
was destroyed by wildfire in 2020. Today Mooretown has a small 
reservation near the City of Oroville, though we also manage nearby 
Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service lands through co-
management and co-stewardship agreements.
    Subcommittee Members likely recall the Camp Fire, which destroyed 
the Town of Paradise and took 85 lives in 2018, but since that time we 
have also faced the 320,000 acre North Complex fire, which killed 15 
and destroyed 2,500 structures; the million acre Dixie Fire, the 
largest fire in California history; and, just last year, the 430,000 
acre Park Fire, the fourth-largest in California history. Our community 
is ground zero of the National Forest health crisis, and while we have 
cultural and economic purposes for our forest management efforts, it is 
also a mater of necessity.
    I am here today to tell you about our use of the Service First 
authority to provide forest management for the U.S. Forest Service 
(``USFS'') as a federally recognized Tribe, allowing us to deploy funds 
appropriated by Congress in a timely manner, often within weeks, and 
respond to this crisis at the pace and scale that it requires. The 
Service First model can be used to rapidly address hazardous conditions 
and other forest management needs across the nation, without requiring 
new legislation or regulatory changes. At the same time, using Service 
First with Tribes can support Tribal economic development and bring to 
bear the skills and knowledge of those who have managed our forests for 
thousands of years.
    We participate in Interagency Agreements between the USFS and 
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) through Service First Authority, which 
enables USDA and the Interior Department to share Federal resources to 
efficiently complete projects. Without the Bureau of Indian Affairs' 
California Central Forestry Department, a critical partner, we would 
not be able to conduct thousands of acres of fuels reduction for the 
Forest Service as we have every year since 2017.
    Under this Service First model, BIA and USFS enter into an 
Interagency Agreement including Mooretown as an implementing partner; 
USFS funds are transferred to Interior, then to a trust account held on 
the Tribe's behalf; finally, we begin project implementation and are 
reimbursed as we submit expenses to BIA for work completed. The process 
allows us to initiate work as soon as funds are placed in our trust 
account, while maintaining strict Federal accounting and reporting 
requirements.
    It's important to note that Mooretown does not just work on our 
reservation and the aboriginal territories of the Tribe, but that we 
provide forest management anywhere it is needed. For example, when 
Congress appropriated Wildfire Crisis funding, that funding was 
directed to the many National Forests designated as Wildfire Crisis 
Landscapes. A number of National Forests in California and Nevada 
initiated Interagency Agreements with the BIA and Mooretown to fund 
forest fuels and ecosystem enhancement projects; this included removing 
hazard trees, creating fuel breaks in the wildland-urban interface, and 
road repair to restore public and management access. Our Tribal member-
led crews are working as I speak on fuels reduction projects under 
these agreements, using both hand crews and a fleet of large equipment 
like masticators and log processors. When the Tribe conducts work 
outside of its ancestral lands, we partner with local Tribes to train 
and employ their members, helping them build capacity to take on their 
own projects in the future.
    Through this Service First model, the Tribe has partnered with BIA 
and other Federal agencies to conduct nearly $40 million of forest 
treatments since Mooretown Forestry Contract Services began operating. 
We have completed over 10,000 acres of fuels reduction, cleared 
hundreds of miles of roads of post-fire hazards, and built fuel breaks 
to make communities safer and our forests healthier.
    We could not do this work without our partners at BIA Forestry, who 
serve a critical role in developing agreements, processing funding, and 
coordinating with USFS. We are also grateful for the many USFS 
personnel who recognize the unique benefits the Service First model 
provides, and who have energetically worked with us to deploy our teams 
wherever they can be most effective.
    The Tribe does use other types of agreements, including a Master 
Service Agreement with Plumas National Forest, our closest partner, and 
hopes to enter Good Neighbor Authority to allow us to more efficiently 
and quickly move forest products, including timber, off the landscape. 
We are grateful for the Committee's efforts to address Good Neighbor 
Authority and are hopeful that the Fix Our Forests Act is enacted this 
year.
    However, we have experienced some challenges in working with USFS 
under the Service First model:

   We've found that USFS personnel can be hesitant to use new 
        tools like our Service First model unless they have already 
        done so previously. At times funding transfers have been 
        delayed because of a disconnect between USFS field staff, who 
        understand our model, and grants and agreements staff, who may 
        not have experience with it.

   Capacity challenges in some USFS districts have actually 
        precluded them from approving projects supported by outside 
        grant funding, preventing valuable work which does not rely on 
        Federal funding.

   Even when funding is available, environmental review is 
        complete, and we have an existing Interagency Agreement, we 
        must rely upon USFS personnel to prepare a scope of work. 
        Younger staff often haven't been trained to develop these key 
        planning materials, and we've seen an exodus of older, 
        experienced personnel.

   At times we've also been told we should work directly with 
        USFS, rather than use the Service First model with BIA 
        participation. Service First is often superior to other 
        agreement types because it is less cumbersome, faster, and does 
        not require the Tribe to sign a limited waiver of sovereign 
        immunity.

    To address many of these challenges, and to stop the bleeding, we 
have hired retired USFS personnel who can write scopes of work, and 
that are from the districts we work in, know what work is ready to 
proceed, and can coordinate with remaining USFS staff to help them use 
existing agreements and create new ones.
    We have had preliminary discussions with USFS leadership about 
developing training to ensure personnel are familiar with the Service 
First model and know its advantages. I am hopeful that the Committee 
will support this effort, and appreciate Chief Schultz's willingness to 
discuss this concern with us.
    The Tribe is also working to develop an overarching MOU with the 
BIA to provide a firm structure to the Service First model, in part to 
reassure USFS personnel of the process and also to make our 
interactions with both agencies more predictable, routine, and durable.
    We are fighting a war on catastrophic wildfire and we are trying to 
get ahead of it with basic forestry practices, while recovering from 
decades of forest mismanagement in an era where the Forest Service is 
reeling from major personnel reductions. In our region, that 
mismanagement began with the onslaught of the California Gold Rush and 
resulted in mass genocide and displacement of the communities that had 
managed the forests for millennia. The Tribe truly believes that if we 
take care of the Forests, they will take care of us; that rural 
communities are in need of wildfire protection; that watersheds are 
need forest management to protect water supplies for humans and 
wildlife; and, that key habitats hang on a razor's edge, vulnerable to 
being wiped out by a single fire.
    In summary, Mooretown Forestry has demonstrated that Tribes using 
Interagency Agreements with the BIA and USFS are the fastest means of 
deploying forest management funding, and certainly faster than using 
nonprofit partners that rely upon the same laborious contracting 
requirements as the USFS. Mooretown can and does just get out there and 
do the work.
    We are honored to come here to tell you that the Service First 
model of working with BIA and USFS using Interagency Agreements is 
working. We are proud of how much we have done, but recognize how much 
more work is needed. Looking forward, we hope that the Committee will 
support more widespread adoption of the Service First model, help us 
secure training for USFS personnel, and, when appropriating forest 
management and wildfire crisis funding, recognize that Service First is 
the fastest means of getting projects underway.
    Finally, I would like to close by thanking Chairman LaMalfa for his 
long-term support of the Tribe and our Forestry program, and Chairman 
Thompson for visiting us in northern California, viewing the impacts of 
wildfire firsthand, and inviting the Tribe here today to testify.

    The Chairman. Thanks again, Dr. Monohan. Appreciate your 
testimony, and we will listen to our final witness, Dr. Thomas 
DeLuca, the Dean of the College of Forestry at Oregon State 
University. You have 5 minutes. Thank you.

    STATEMENT OF THOMAS H., DeLUCA, Ph.D., DEAN, COLLEGE OF 
      FORESTRY, OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY;  DIRECTOR,  OREGON
      FOREST RESEARCH LABORATORY, OSU, CORVALLIS, OR

    Dr. DeLuca. Chairman LaMalfa, Ranking Member Salinas, and 
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today. My name is Tom DeLuca. I serve as the Dean of 
the College of Forestry at Oregon State University.
    Decades of timber harvest and fire suppression on Federal 
forestlands, followed by a precipitous decline in active 
management starting in the 1980s, resulted in a large portion 
of Federal forests being dangerously overstocked, vulnerable to 
insects and disease, and at high risk of high-severity 
wildfires. I applaud meaningful actions that can accelerate and 
increase science-informed forest management to improve forest 
health and resilience. The current Administration has 
prioritized action on Federal forestlands. There are, however, 
key challenges that put the potential for success at risk. I 
encourage this Committee to consider the following: can the 
Federal Government effectively achieve the desired management 
outcomes while reducing Federal workforce and research 
capacity? Second, given that we are far behind in addressing 
the Federal forests' condition, it is imperative that we focus 
precisely on where work needs to be done.
    For the greatest potential for success, I offer three 
points for your consideration. First, Federal reductions in 
force and restructuring proposals undermine our collective 
ability to ramp up localized active management. Secretary 
Rollins issued a memorandum on July 24 to propose 
reorganization plans for the U.S. Forest Service to centralize 
personnel and resources in regional hubs. While this may offer 
administrative efficiencies, this action risks undermining the 
foundation of effective natural resource management by losing 
local knowledge and partnerships, trust, and ecological 
specificity that is critical to effective natural resource 
management. Workforce reductions initiated earlier this year 
are already constraining Federal capacity. The agency's 
research and development arm has dropped by about 25 percent, 
or nearly 400 permanent employees, since 2024. Over the same 
period, the Pacific Northwest Research Station, co-located on 
OSU's Corvallis campus, staff has declined by 60 positions, or 
24 percent. These rapid reductions act to destabilize the 
agency being tasked with advancing enhanced management on our 
National Forests.
    Second, U.S. Forest Service research enterprise reductions 
hinder science-informed management practices to support forest 
health and productivity. Our forests face ever-evolving 
threats, such as increasingly hot, dry conditions, novel 
insects and pathogens, and exotic plants. Science must be done 
to evolve with these novel threats. The U.S. Forest Service 
plays a critical role in advancing and translating science for 
active management to address these complex challenges. Equally 
important is the role of the U.S. Forest Service's Experimental 
Forest Network. Long-term ecological data collection at sites, 
such as the H.J. Andrews Experimental Forest in Oregon, have 
provided irreplaceable insights into how forests function for 
more than 75 years. No other government agency or industry 
outside of the U.S. Forest Service is positioned to replace 
those losses in scientific work currently advanced by the 
agency.
    Third and final, rescinding the Roadless Rule distracts 
from the priority management activities that improve forest 
health and resilience. The Roadless Rule restricts new road 
construction on approximately 58 of the 193 million acres of 
National Forest lands. Most of the acres in roadless areas are 
steep, remote, and costly to access for timber harvest. 
Historically, roads were built where it was most economically 
viable to harvest and haul timber. This remains true today, and 
the distance from un-roaded lands to active mills is even 
further today due to the large number of mill closures over the 
last 30 years. Rescinding the Roadless Rule won't mitigate 
wildfire risk, which is based on three factors: the likelihood 
that a wildfire will happen in a given place, the potential 
severity of a fire when it occurs, and the values at risk. The 
highest priority for reducing wildfire risk is in the wildland-
urban interface where people, property, and infrastructure are 
exposed.
    In conclusion, after decades of intensive use followed by 
prolonged inaction, our forests face unprecedented stress from 
wildfire, insects, and disease and drought. We must implement 
proactive management at a meaningful scale, informed by robust 
science, and supported by a prepared workforce and regional 
infrastructure. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. DeLuca follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Thomas H., DeLuca, Ph.D., Dean, College of 
  Forestry, Oregon State University; Director, Oregon Forest Research 
                     Laboratory, OSU, Corvallis, OR
                     
    Chairman LaMalfa, Vice Chair Moore, Ranking Member Salinas, Vice 
Ranking Member Riley, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today on the role of active management in 
promoting forest health, including wildfire resilience, and on the 
potential for National Forestlands to contribute to additional domestic 
timber production. My name is Thomas DeLuca; I serve as Dean of the 
College of Forestry at Oregon State University (OSU).
    The U.S. Forest Service stewards approximately 193 million acres of 
National Forest System lands. Following direction from Executive Order 
14225, Immediate Expansion of American Timber Production (signed March 
1, 2025), USDA Secretary Rollins issued a memo \1\ designating 112 
million acres--approximately 60% of the system--as an ``emergency 
situation'' to expedite active management and timber production.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://www.usda.gov/sites/default/files/documents/sm-1078-
006.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I fully agree with the position that the pace and scale of active 
management on these lands must increase. Our federally managed 
forestlands look much different today than they would have when 
European settlers first arrived. Much of today's National Forests, with 
the exception of lands that have been under long-term protection (such 
as National Parks and designated Wilderness areas) have been harvested, 
densely planted and managed primarily for timber production for 
decades. However, major reductions in active management starting in the 
1980s, combined with deferred maintenance of roads and firebreaks as 
well as the exclusion of fire and of Indigenous stewardship on these 
landscapes, have resulted in many forests being dangerously 
overstocked, vulnerable to insects and disease, and at risk of high-
intensity wildfires. Active, science-informed management is essential 
for restoring resilience and productivity to these forests.
    I applaud meaningful policy and actions that can accelerate and 
increase science-informed management, but we face a key challenge I 
respectfully encourage this Committee to further consider: Can the 
Federal Government effectively achieve the active management outcomes 
needed on the collective of Federal forestlands while simultaneously 
implementing proposed USDA plans to reduce the workforce and research 
capacity needed to support this work?
    There is a clear and present opportunity to increase timber 
production on previously managed forestlands and in the process restore 
forest health and fire resiliency. To restore forest health, reduce 
wildfire risk, and support a sustainable domestic timber supply, the 
strategy must be grounded in science and paired with investments in 
workforce, local capacity, and partnerships. The Forest Service cannot 
deliver science-based, regionally tailored management without people 
and resources to plan, implement, and monitor projects at scale. With 
this in mind, I share three key points for your consideration.
1. Federal Reductions in Force and Restructuring Proposals Undermine 
        Ability To Ramp Up Localized Active Management
    Secretary Rollins issued a memorandum \2\ on July 24 to propose 
reorganization plans for the Department of Agriculture and the U.S. 
Forest Service. This proposal outlined key goals, including 
streamlining agency processes, removing barriers to success, and 
enhancing the ability of Federal employees to interface with their 
constituents. The USDA reorganization plan to centralize personnel and 
resources in regional hubs may offer administrative efficiencies; 
however, this action risks undermining the foundation of effective 
natural resource management by losing local knowledge and partnerships, 
trust, and ecological specificity that are critical to natural resource 
management.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ https://www.usda.gov/about-usda/news/press-releases/2025/07/24/
secretary-rollins-announces-usda-reorganization-restoring-departments-
core-mission-supporting.
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    Workforce reductions are already constraining Federal capacity. 
Although the total number of staff departures is difficult to 
determine, a July Reuters investigation reported that as many as 5,000 
USFS employees--or 15% of the workforce--left the agency in the last 5 
months.\3\ This is a rapid and destabilizing loss for the agency that 
is now tasked with ramping up management efforts across the nation's 
forests.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-wildfires-rage-
trump-staff-cuts-force-firefighters-clean-toilets-critics-say-2025-07-
21/.
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    The cuts that have occurred across Federal agencies supporting 
forestry and natural resource management have disproportionately fallen 
on early-career staff, often during probationary periods, as well as 
veteran employees with legacy knowledge nearing retirement. The 
reduction in both cohorts simultaneously creates not only a significant 
gap in knowledge transfer within the agencies, but a missed opportunity 
to onboard young professionals trained in the latest science and 
management approaches.
    Likewise, for forestry and natural resources graduates entering the 
workforce, the opportunities to contribute the latest scientific 
knowledge and best practice to the field are dwindling, despite the 
need for their expertise increasing. Anecdotally, in Oregon State 
University's job posting system for students, the USDA Forest Service 
posted more than 270 full-time, seasonal, and internship opportunities 
for OSU students during the 2023-24 academic year. For the 2024-25 
academic year, the agency posted only 13. The impact of the loss of 
these internship opportunities is still being assessed, but at a 
minimum they represent a significant loss in opportunities for students 
in forestry and the natural resources.
    The USDA reorganization proposal also includes moving from 
regionally located scientists and local field managers in favor of a 
centralized USFS research and development office in Fort Collins, 
Colorado. While this may be administratively efficient, it risks 
ignoring the ecological complexity of distinct forest types across the 
country. Co-location of regional offices where forest management 
activities take place fosters collaboration, accelerates innovation, 
and supports the training of the next generation of scientists and land 
managers. These partnerships are often rooted in shared landscapes and 
mutual investment in local outcomes--something that is difficult to 
replicate from a distant hub.
2. USFS Research Enterprise Reductions Hinder Science-Informed 
        Management Practices To Support Forest Health and Productivity
    Second, and closely related to overall USFS workforce reductions in 
regional field staff, are the implications for the U.S. Forest Service 
Research Enterprise. Colleagues at the USFS report that headcount in 
the agency's research and development arm has dropped 25 percent--
nearly 400 permanent employees--since 2024. At the Pacific Northwest 
Research Station specifically, which is co-located at Oregon State 
University's Corvallis campus, staff declined by 60 positions, or 24 
percent, over the same period. Although Congress has allocated funds 
for additional R&D staff, hiring freezes prevent the agency from 
filling these critical roles.
    The USFS research enterprise plays a critical role in advancing 
American forestry. Its synergy with universities ensures that science 
is regionally focused, grounded in local eco-regions, and responsive to 
the needs of forest-dependent communities. The proposal to further 
reduce headcounts and centralize USFS staff in Fort Collins, Colorado, 
risks further weakening the ties that sustain joint research, student 
mentorship, and rapid knowledge exchange between the agency and 
universities such as Oregon State University on a local and regional 
scale.
    We cannot manage today's forests without science-based practices 
that are continuously updated based on ever-evolving threats to our 
forests, including increasingly hot, dry conditions, novel insects and 
pathogens, and exotic plants to name a few. For decades, many Federal 
forestlands were intensively managed, followed by decades of minimal 
management. The resulting landscapes are primed for disease, insect 
outbreaks, drought stress, and catastrophic wildfire.
    Rather than creating efficiencies or improving the ability to 
readily adapt to changing conditions, centralization would raise costs 
and reduce opportunities for field-based science--science that is 
essential to effective forest management, timber production, wildfire 
risk reduction, and long-term forest health. Research conducted by OSU 
and the USFS Pacific Northwest Research Station, for instance, 
demonstrates that carefully applied thinning and the reintroduction of 
prescribed fire can restore resiliency to these forests. Innovations in 
wildfire risk reduction, wood utilization, and forest management 
technologies continue to grow through such collaborative partnerships.
    Equally important is the role of the USFS experimental forest 
network. Long-term ecological data collection at sites such as the H.J. 
Andrews Experimental Forest have provided irreplaceable insights into 
how forests function for more than 75 years. The H.J. Andrews leverages 
approximately three times the money invested by the USFS, including 
from OSU, to support this work. No other government agency or industry 
outside of the USFS is positioned or has the incentives to support the 
scientific work currently advanced by USFS and the associated knowledge 
generation that supports forestry on both public and private lands. 
Interruptions to these datasets would represent permanent losses to our 
collective understanding of forest ecosystems.
    Centralization would also reduce opportunities for the local 
collaborations that make science actionable--partnerships with Tribes, 
state agencies, industry, and communities--as well as limit training 
opportunities for graduate students and the next generation of forest 
stewards. While virtual tools can help, they cannot replace the value 
of shared landscapes and on-the-ground collaboration. Over time, this 
shift would narrow perspective, slow innovation, and weaken the 
scientific foundation for National Forest policy.
    It is also essential to recognize that forest management challenges 
differ greatly by region. The nation's strongest concentrations of 
forestry capacity are in the Pacific Northwest and the Southeast. 
Centralizing USFS R&D in a single hub ignores this reality and risks 
one-size-fits-all solutions that fail to account for ecological 
diversity and regional economies.
    Finally, not all forest management is fuels management. Practices 
must be grounded in science and legal frameworks to balance ecological, 
economic, and social goals. Federal and state governments, Tribes, 
universities, communities, nonprofits, and industry all offer tools, 
knowledge, and partnerships to adopt more active and sustainable forest 
management. But this requires that the USFS research enterprise remain 
robust, well-resourced, and regionally engaged. Without that, our 
ability to expand active management at scale--and do it responsibly--
will be compromised.
3. Rescinding the Roadless Rule Distracts from Priority Management 
        Activities that Improve Forest Health and Resilience
    There is a large body of research to strongly support the urgent 
need to expand active management to restore forest health and reduce 
wildfire risk, and I again applaud efforts to accelerate this work. But 
using wildfire mitigation as the justification to rescind the 2001 
Roadless Rule is a distraction from where treatments are most urgently 
needed.
    The Roadless Rule restricts new road construction on approximately 
58 million acres of the 193 million acres of National Forest lands. 
Removal of protections in these roadless areas has been proposed with 
the goal, as stated by Secretary Rollins in an Aug. 27 press 
release,\4\ to ``properly manage our Federal lands to create healthy, 
resilient, and productive forests for generations to come,'' with a 
particular concern for wildfire mitigation and timber production.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ https://www.usda.gov/about-usda/news/press-releases/2025/08/27/
secretary-rollins-opens-next-step-roadless-rule-rescission.
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    Rescinding the Roadless Rule risks diverting resources away from 
urgent priorities, which include restoring resilience where people, 
homes, communities, economies, and ecosystems are most vulnerable.
    While there may be some benefit to both wildfire mitigation and 
timber supply by accessing roadless areas, the costs far outweigh the 
benefits from both an environmental and economic perspective. Most of 
these acres are steep, remote, and costly to access for timber harvest. 
Historically, roads were built where it was economically viable to 
harvest and haul timber and areas left without roads were often too 
costly or impractical to develop. This remains true today. And, if 
anything, the distance from un-roaded lands to active mills is further 
today due to the large number of mill closures over the last 30 years.
    Rescinding the rule also won't significantly mitigate wildfire 
risk. Wildfire risk is based on three factors: the likelihood that a 
wildfire will happen in a specific place, the potential intensity of a 
fire when it does happen, and the values at risk. The highest priority 
for reducing wildfire risk is the wildland-urban interface, where 
people, property, and infrastructure are most exposed. Fuels treatments 
near communities, watersheds, and critical habitats provide the 
greatest benefit. By contrast, dedicating scarce resources to build 
roads into steep backcountry for timber and fire suppression diverts 
attention from where it matters most (Downing, et al. 2022).\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ https://www.fs.usda.gov/rm/pubs_journals/2022/
rmrs_2022_downing_w001.pdf.
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    This is supported by scientific research indicating that wilderness 
and inventoried roadless areas experience fewer ignitions than roaded 
``front-country'' areas, where human-caused fires dominate. According 
to a recent study, 84% of ignitions nationally are human-caused, and 
they overwhelmingly occur where roads already exist (Balch, et al. 
2017).\6\ While roads can improve suppression access, they also 
increase ignition risk, facilitate invasive species spread, and 
fragment habitat. (Johnston, et al. 2021).\7\
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    \6\ https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/pdfs/
BalchPNAS-2017.pdf.
    \7\ https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac13ee/
pdf.
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Conclusion
    The health and resilience of our nation's forests depend on active, 
science-informed management. After decades of both intensive use and 
prolonged inaction, our forests face unprecedented stress from 
wildfire, insects, disease, and drought. To mitigate, we must implement 
proactive management at a meaningful scale.
    The need to increase pace and scale has been acknowledged across 
multiple Administrations, on both sides of the aisle, and I commend 
this Administration for prioritizing the health and resiliency of 
Federal forestlands. If policy directives alone could achieve this, 
however, it would have been done by now. Real progress demands 
investment in the people, science, and infrastructure that make 
management possible. That means sustaining a skilled Federal workforce, 
supporting the U.S. Forest Service research enterprise and enabling 
collaboration with research institutions and other partners. It also 
means ensuring sufficient regional milling capacity and innovative wood 
products like cross-laminated timber (``CLT''), other mass timber 
components, and composites to process and use material removed through 
restoration and fuels reduction treatments. Without these, even the 
best policy goals cannot be met.
    I also want to recognize and commend the Administration for 
advancing programs like the Joint Chiefs' Landscape Restoration 
Partnership. One of the recently funded projects--the Oregon-Hood River 
Wildfire & Watershed Project,\8\ in which Oregon State University's 
Extension Fire Program is a partner--is a model for how Federal 
investment can align with local expertise to achieve real results. By 
bringing agencies, research institutions, and communities together, 
this project will reduce wildfire risk, protect watersheds, and 
strengthen community resilience. This is exactly the kind of science-
based, collaborative work we should be expanding nationwide.
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    \8\ https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/programs-initiatives/joint-chiefs-
landscape-restoration-partnership/summary-of-fy25-selected-joint.
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    By contrast, cuts to staffing, proposed consolidation of regional 
offices and research efforts, and distractions such as revisiting the 
Roadless Rule will not help us reach these goals. They will hinder 
progress at the very moment we need to accelerate it. We should be 
focusing instead on scaling treatments in priority landscapes, 
expanding partnerships with Tribes, states, and communities, and 
building on the innovations that universities and the Forest Service 
have already developed together.
    If we are serious about restoring forest health, reducing wildfire 
risk, and supporting rural economies, we must invest in capacity--this 
includes people, businesses, and resilient communities--not reduce it. 
By pairing active management with robust science, a prepared workforce, 
and regional infrastructure, we can truly help ``properly manage our 
Federal lands to create healthy, resilient, and productive forests for 
generations to come,'' as Secretary Rollins and the Administration have 
stated.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. DeLuca. We will now go to 
Member questions, and I will recognize first, Ranking Member 
Salinas.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you Chairman LaMalfa. So, let's just 
dive right in. Dr. DeLuca, your testimony gave us some valuable 
insight and overview of the importance and impacts of 
partnerships between universities, like Oregon State and the 
Forest Service, in advancing research and skilled workforce 
development. Can you share and dive in a little deeper on some 
examples of research and/or projects of the College of Forestry 
that you might be working on with the Forest Service right now, 
and how do these projects help inform Federal land management?
    Dr. DeLuca. Yes. We work directly with the Forest Service 
on innumerable projects. Some that are particularly of 
relevance to this Committee would be on the Wildfire and Water 
Security Research Project, which deals with looking at the 
effect of wildfire on municipal drinking water quality and 
availability. And that work was a joint project between U.S. 
Forest Service and several universities, including Oregon State 
University. That project was actually rescinded just recently, 
but it is an example of the type of work we are doing together.
    We also have the extensive work on the H.J. Andrews 
Experimental Forest. It is the longest-standing, long-term 
ecological research site in the nation, and it is a 
collaboration between U.S. Forest Service and Oregon State 
University, and in that site, it has burned three times in the 
last 4 years. We have had fires on that site three times in the 
last 4 years, which opens up incredible opportunities for 
studying wildfire recovery and restoration, and those are 
projects that are being initiated on the forests today. I would 
go on, but I want to be--I recognize time limitations.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, and I would imagine that the 
information and the research that you are gathering actually 
helps inform policies then on the ground and for the Federal 
Government to figure out which direction to take and be most 
efficient and less wasteful.
    Dr. DeLuca. Yes, absolutely. I think research is 
exceptionally important and having science-informed policy, 
policy that incorporates unbiased information, that is built 
out of not just individual studies, but a corpus of data that 
is collected over tens of years. And especially in a field such 
as forestry, that long-term science is exceptionally important, 
and that is where programs, such as the Experimental Forest 
Network within the U.S. Forest Service, is so important because 
it provides that continual data collection over the lifecycle 
of forests and rotations.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. The Trump Administration has cited 
improving fire prevention efforts as a justification for 
rescinding the 2001 Roadless Rule, claiming that the decision 
will reduce the risk of wildfire--I mentioned this in my 
opening statement--but research also shows that human activity 
is the leading cause of fire. In fact, according to the Forest 
Service's own data, humans cause upwards of 85 percent of 
wildfire fires. Further, a study from the Wilderness Society 
found that fire ignition density rates are highest within 50 
meters of roads. So, again to Dr. DeLuca, what does the 
scientific literature say about roadless area and fire risk, 
and do you see rescission of the Roadless Rule as a meaningful 
step toward improving our fire preparedness and response?
    Dr. DeLuca. Yes. We know that in areas where humans are 
present, we have more fire ignitions. We also, of course, have 
lightning fire ignitions or natural ignitions, but humans 
greatly increase the number of ignitions that occur on the 
landscape. So, once you build roads into areas, you increase 
access and you increase the potential ignitions. Whether those 
fires erupt into full-scale wildfires is dependent on whether 
there are conditions that are conducive to that fire erupting. 
However, the roadless area and the existing designated 
wilderness areas are areas that were not managed heavily in the 
past because of the lack of roading and have the lower 
densities, stand densities, than those areas that were managed 
and then not managed. Those areas, you open the stand up, and 
you have higher density. And so, following--especially with the 
combination of no management combined with active fire 
suppression increases the severity of fires that occur in that 
area. And, of course, those areas are closer to where 
communities exist, and that is where the effort to reduce fuels 
should be prioritized at this stage.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Salinas. I will now 
recognize our Chairman of the full Committee, Mr. Thompson from 
Pennsylvania.
    Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. Thanks again 
for the witnesses for being here. In many forests, including my 
National Forest, Allegheny National Forest, which I represent, 
we have significant challenges with invasive species. Ms. 
Barnes, can you speak to the role that state forestry agencies 
play with combating these invasives that undermine forest 
health?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. So, invasive species is something we take 
very seriously, and trying to combat those and eradicate those 
on the landscape is something that should be done. These can 
add fuel to the fire and growth to fires and actually lead to 
catastrophic wildfires in the communities, so working to 
control those, to eradicate those. In our fuels program, we 
work to provide projects that can help to reduce those and 
restore native vegetation in the landscape, which is a very, 
very important component to reducing the risk of catastrophic 
wildfire.
    Mr. Thompson. Yes, and I really appreciate the role the 
partnership between USDA and our state agencies. That teamwork 
really does make a difference for us. In Pennsylvania, we don't 
have massive wildfires, but we have small ones, pretty easily 
managed, but it is the invasives that do the damage in the 
Allegheny National Forest.
    Ms. Barnes, in your testimony, you mentioned support for 
the so-called Cottonwood fix, which was included in the Farm, 
Food, and National Security Act of 2024, and due to the 
Cottonwood decision 2015, the Forest Service is required to re-
initiate consultation with the Fish and Wildlife Service on 
completed forest plans when a new species is listed under the 
Endangered Species Act, or new information is brought forward. 
Now, Forest Service Chiefs, both under Republican and 
Democratic Administrations, have said that further consultation 
isn't necessary as it would require more than 100 forest plans 
to be revised, costing taxpayer dollars and agency staff time 
but with no real benefits. A partial fix was provided by 
Congress in 2018 but expired in 2023. Do you have any further 
comment on Cottonwood and why we need to fix it once and for 
all?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. I would just say that this is an important 
thing to look at. I think fixing this would be helpful, also 
looking at the forest action plans and how they address that. 
This is an avenue that is a strategic plan for the forests, but 
paying special attention on how we can streamline matters, how 
we can make permanent fixes for something is something that we 
are always looking for, and ways to get things done in a more 
streamlined and better process.
    Mr. Thompson. Very good, and then just one final question. 
In 2014, I had the privilege of chairing the Conservation, 
Energy, and Forestry Subcommittee that included some other 
jurisdictions and then--and then the bill in 2018 all provided 
some categorical exemptions, some tools to the U.S. Forest 
Service. So, I will open this up to the whole panel: is there 
anything that comes to mind of new tools that we need to equip 
the U.S. Forest Service with so they can do their job of 
managing the forest in a healthy way? And I measure health 
environmentally by the health of the forest through active 
management, tempering, replanting to the environment, and, 
quite frankly, through the economies for the municipalities 
that we are struggling right now to get Secure Rural Schools 
reauthorized, which is a crime. I mean, I understand out West, 
there are schools that have closed because the Secure Rural 
Schools has expired, and as hard as this Committee has worked, 
we have had a difficult time getting the rest of Congress to 
reauthorize that. And so, are there any tools that come to mind 
that you think that we certainly should consider within the 
remaining portion of the Farm Bill 2.0?
    Dr. Monohan. I would be happy to respond to that, Chairman 
Thompson.
    Mr. Thompson. Please, and thank you for the visit.
    Dr. Monohan. Heck yes.
    Mr. Thompson. Yes, hosting--our great Chairman and I, we 
had a great visit to your headquarters there. Very impressive.
    Dr. Monohan. We are very honored to have you come visit us. 
My testimony today is speaking about a process, an agreement 
type that is already in place that would allow much of what you 
are talking about to continue to go forward. And the challenge 
that we have with that agreement type is that our Forest 
Service partners aren't familiar enough to feel comfortable 
using it when it is new to them, so one of the opportunities we 
have is to work with them on training so that they can use a 
Service First agreement. The Service First would not 
necessarily allow harvest. It is basic forestry practices, 
right, to allow for fuels reduction, prescribed fire, but we 
would need other tools to do more sustainable harvesting, and 
that could be the Good Neighbor Agreement, and, again, that is 
new to them, this new version of it, and that is what takes 
time.
    Mr. Thompson. Yes, and my time has expired, but I would 
encourage our witnesses, anything you can put in writing and 
forward to our Chairman and Ranking Member of the Subcommittee. 
It is time to get 2.0 done, and I want to make sure, just like 
in 2014 and 2018, we have a robust forestry title in what will 
be the Farm, Food, and National Security Act of 2025. So, 
thanks so much. I yield back.
    The Chairman. I appreciate that. Good work, Mr. Chairman, 
and it doesn't always meet the eye for people that a lot of 
great forestry work is getting done in our farm bills, so thank 
you, sir. Now, with that, will recognize my colleague from 
California, Mr. Costa.
    Mr. Costa. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman of the 
Subcommittee and the Chairman of the full Committee, for 
holding this hearing. The purpose, of course, is promoting 
forest health and resiliency through improved active 
management. Frankly, I think that we need to examine the whole 
effort that is going forth between the United States Department 
of Agriculture and the Forest Service--U.S. Forest Service 
agency in terms of this change that--of rearranging priorities 
and the management for the Forest Service. Frankly, I am 
puzzled, and I think I have suggested to the Chairman that we 
need to have greater oversight in this reorganization act 
because I don't think it is clear how--ultimately, what the 
goals are going to be and how it is going to impact the 
mission, in this case, of the U.S. Forest Service.
    I have been here for 21 years, and I think through 
Administrations of both parties, there has been a lack of focus 
and emphasis on the two areas that we are talking about here 
today: forest management and the efforts to provide support for 
fire suppression. And what we have done is we have had a series 
of circumstances in which we appropriate money for forest 
management, but the fire season, as the Chairman noted in his 
opening statement, is no longer a season, but it is year round 
throughout the West. And we run out of money to deal with the 
fire suppression, we borrow that money from forest management, 
and we don't do a very good job in either, in my view.
    Let me, to the point, talk about an effort that took place 
by a number of us a few years ago to provide a 10 year wildfire 
crisis strategy, which invested $1.4 billion to deal with 
forest management, and, Dr. Monohan, I didn't get a chance to 
see you last night, but I am glad you are here because I would 
like you to comment on this. It deals with ten high-risk 
landscapes in eight western states. It was a tragedy, what 
occurred in Chairman LaMalfa's district in Paradise, as we all 
noted. We had the Creek Fire in my area some few years ago that 
lasted 2\1/2\ months and burned over 400,000 acres of forests. 
Right now as I speak, we have the Garnet Fire. In 2 weeks, it 
has consumed over 60,000 acres, and it is 15 percent contained. 
I am wondering exactly what we are doing, and they--the Forest 
Service--the USDA has removed from their website this effort on 
the Inflation Reduction Act (Pub. L. 117-169) on $1.4 billion 
to manage these ten high-risk areas. I don't understand why 
they are doing that, why we are depleting resources from the 
Forest Service that needs it now at this critical time with 
climate change and other factors that we are dealing with.
    Dr. Monohan, would you please comment on where we are 
putting our resources and the reduction of people that need to 
be there, who have the expertise and the experience to combat 
the challenges with this fire season?
    Dr. Monohan. Thank you. I think you put--you are right on 
it, Congressman Costa. We have separated fire from forestry. 
Fire is an important part of forestry and can actually be good 
fire to help manage our forests and keep it so that 
catastrophic wildfire doesn't destroy them. Because we have 
literally separated those funding streams at the very, very 
top, we currently have a forest management system that responds 
to catastrophic fire after the fact.
    Mr. Costa. And it makes no sense. I mean, it is 
inconsistent.
    Dr. Monohan. Correct. We need long-term sustainable funding 
for ongoing forest management that really has nothing to do 
with harvesting huge amounts of trees. These forests require 
constant work and maintenance, and prescribed fire needs to be 
a part of that, right, as does other types of fuels reductions 
so we can get to it.
    Mr. Costa. Absolutely. We have lost over 20 percent of the 
giant sequoia trees since 2015, and right now, this Garnet Fire 
is threading another sequoia grove. I wrote a letter yesterday, 
many of my California colleagues supported it, to the Secretary 
of Agriculture to put a potential focus right now. They are 
using Chinook helicopters for night flying, which is good, but 
we need to provide other resources so that we don't have a 
repeat of what occurred during the Creek Fire some 3 years ago.
    Dr. Monohan. I agree completely with you. I am very sad to 
see what is happening to the sequoias right now, and, really, 
this about getting ahead of the next catastrophic wildfire 
already.
    Mr. Costa. Yes. My time is expiring here, Mr. Chairman, but 
I think Mr. Dane talked about the closure of 130 mills to 
provide a logging resource. And there is a lot of complexity 
that is involved in our supply chain that I think we need to 
really examine when we look at supply of wood materials from 
not only Canada, but from Brazil, and how we keep our supply 
chain focused in a way that makes sense for all the multiple 
uses that we use for wood products. And I know that we don't 
have time here, but there are a lot of facets to this important 
Subcommittee hearing. I commend you for doing that. I would 
like to say one other thing. I would like to invite the U.S. 
Department of Agriculture and the representative from the 
Forest Service to testify before the Committee as to what this 
reorganization means and what their end game is.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Costa. That is certainly, our 
intention is, in further hearings, to have them in and get a 
handle on where we are right now because this Committee wants 
to be more active on that work, so I thank you. And to your 
other point, too, we need to have longer-term commitments from 
Forest Service supplies so that we can have the milling 
capacity, have the confidence they are going to be able to have 
a return on investment should they invest in more milling 
capacity. That would be huge. So, and last you mentioned some 
of the tragedy in our district. I am sorry you got a big fire 
going on in yours. This is--actually I was presented with two 
gavels, one for the Carr Fire in northern California and one 
for the Camp Fire. This is not an oversized gavel. I have just 
shrunk a little bit.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. So, with that----
    Mr. Costa. Well, the tragedy of our fires in the state and 
the West is something that I think we all share.
    The Chairman. Big time, sir, yes, and our colleague in 
Oregon as well, we are dealing with that. So, let me recognize 
Mr. Baird for his opportunity, 5 minutes. Thank you.
    Mr. Baird. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Ranking 
Member, for holding this hearing, and then I always appreciate 
the witnesses making the effort to be here to give us your 
insight into whatever industry we are talking about. And, I got 
a brother that is involved in the forestry business or in the 
industry, and in Indiana, we have a lot of hardwoods, both red 
and white oak, cherry, walnut. And since we are talking about 
forestry management, the last thing I knew out of Indiana that 
through forest management, we end up having more growth than we 
do in the harvest, and so the timber is continuing to grow more 
than we are harvesting. And the other thing that I think we 
need to keep--and this just a comment, but timber, plus the 
wood industry, plus the furniture business, really provides us 
a long-term carbon sequestration, carbon storage. So, I think 
we ought to give the forest industry credit for doing that, but 
I better get back on course here, Mr. Chairman.
    So, Scott, you laid out the serious decline in forest 
health and the urgent need to reduce hazardous fuels through 
active management. As Congress works to pass a farm bill this 
year, what provisions do you believe are the most critical to 
include now so we don't lose more time in tackling the wildfire 
crisis and supporting the logging industry? And I know you have 
probably addressed that in some of your other comments, but I 
will give you an opportunity to review that.
    Mr. Dane. Mr. Chairman, Congressman, thank you very much. 
When it comes to reducing hazardous fuels, the obstacle there 
is what do you do with the low-value/no-value hazardous fuels, 
small-diameter unmerchantable timber, and we are really limited 
on what we can do because of the lack of infrastructure to 
utilize that. And we find that the only viable markets right 
now for that are biomass power generation, and they have been 
cut out of the tax credits that they have been a part of for 
many, many years, and so that jeopardizes those existing 
markets. Now, if we can develop new markets, such as 
sustainable aviation fuel from forest-based feedstock, to 
utilize that, that is great, but we are not there yet. So, we 
need to support the biomass power sector as the only viable 
option for utilization of hazardous fuels in many cases.
    As an example, when the Inflation Reduction Act passed and 
there was money for hazardous fuel reduction in there, I spoke 
to the White House and I said, ``That is terrific, but what are 
you going to do with the biomass once we collect it?'' And they 
said, ``What do you mean?'' I said, ``We have such a limited 
infrastructure to utilize that, that we don't really have the 
ability to transport it 100 miles or more under the current 
cost structure.'' So, they said, ``What are you going to do 
with it?'' I said, ``We are going to push it up in a pile, and 
we are going to light it on fire and open burn.'' So, that is 
an example of why we need to have the markets to support the 
utilization of hazardous fuels.
    Mr. Baird. I can't resist asking--when you talk about the 
biomass, I can't resist asking this question about biochar, if 
there are any comments you care to make on that in that regard.
    Mr. Dane. Yes, there are quite a few developments in the 
biochar sector. In fact, I was meeting this week with a couple 
of representatives that have biomass power plants, and they are 
going to site biochar facilities on their biomass power plant 
sites as well. So, it is a new product, but it has a lot of 
potential, and forest-based feedstock would be the primary 
feedstock for developing biochar.
    Mr. Baird. Thank you, and we got about 1 minute left for 
me. So, any of the other three of you have any thoughts in that 
arena?
    Dr. DeLuca. Well, just really briefly, following up on the 
biochar issue, one of the key things that has to happen for 
biochar to be successful as a product is to demonstrate its 
value. It isn't like applying a fertilizer. It doesn't yield at 
a direct yield response that you know what you are going to get 
out of it in a given year. And so, there are studies that need 
to be conducted to demonstrate its long-term value as a soil 
amendment because right now, there just isn't a market for 
biochar. So, the break-even haul distances to get the stuff to 
a place where you can convert it as an energy source is a 
problem, but if we can have that value add of biochar, it would 
make a big difference.
    Mr. Baird. But it is almost pure carbon, and so it would 
really contribute to soil health.
    Dr. DeLuca. Yes. Yep.
    Mr. Baird. Do I have an opportunity to ask one more 
question or----
    The Chairman. Go fast, and we will let you.
    Mr. Baird. Real fast. Anyone else?
    Dr. Monohan. I would love to chime in about the biochar 
conversation. In our watersheds, we experienced the California 
Gold Rush 150 years ago, and we have mine-impacted acres from 
hydraulic mining. This is denuded areas with no topsoil. These 
areas are excellent for biochar amendments, and we have done 
some--both lab tests and field studies with Pacific Southwest 
Research Station partners to look at biochar and its benefits 
of putting that carbon sequestration benefits included on that 
hydraulic mine-impacted landscape, and we would really like to 
continue to pursue that. In fact, I mentioned that Forest 
Service sometimes are so limited in their capacity, that even 
though we brought funded grants to them to continue this work, 
they had a hard time accepting and going forward with it 
because they were at max.
    Mr. Baird. We better end there, and I thank you and 
appreciate your responses, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. All right. Thank you, Mr. Baird, and, Dr. 
Monohan, I was just noting you said 150. Actually, yesterday 
was California's 175th birthday, so happy birthday, home state. 
Yes, time flies, doesn't it?
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. It is also my mother-in-law's birthday that 
day. I won't say what that number is.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. So, anyway, Mr. Riley from New York.
    Mr. Riley. Thanks. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I was just about 
to jump in and bail you out, but you saved yourself there 
with----
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Riley. So, where I am from in upstate New York, we know 
a thing or two about bad trade deals, lost a lot of jobs over 
the last generation because of them, and I think that what we 
are seeing right now with our current situation with the 
logging industry is really, really bad. Mr. Dane, in your 
testimony, you talked a bit about this. I saw you submitted the 
Roadmap to Recovery, and in it, you identified a bunch of top 
priorities for your Council, and one of those was fixing our 
trade system. It is also a top priority for my constituents. I 
have one for--just as one example.
    I have a constituent in Green County, whose family business 
employs dozens of our neighbors. They have become a real, real 
leader in sustainability in the community, and their business 
is mostly domestic, but, historically, they have depended on 
access to foreign markets to stay afloat. And speaking of 
staying afloat, she has literally had logs floating in the 
ocean since March when China retaliated against Trump's tariffs 
regime, and she has lost access to these markets, which is 
inflicting a ton of damage on her small family business. And 
you meet these folks, they are people who are working their 
tails off, they are doing everything that has been asked of 
them, and all of a sudden, they have the rug ripped out from 
underneath them, and it is just simply not fair to put that 
family and that family business in that situation.
    And so, my office, we have been pressing USDA and USTR to 
make this right for that small family business and their dozens 
of employees, but I am pretty frustrated because I don't think 
anybody is treating this with the urgency that it demands. 
Around this place in Washington, it is bureaucracy and red tape 
and nonsense. Back home, these are real jobs for real people in 
a real community doing real work, and it is really important. 
And your testimony said that there are 150 mills that have 
closed in just the last 36 months, and that is just not an 
acceptable trajectory for us. And so, my question for you is, 
generally, for my constituent, any thoughts that you have for 
them, any thoughts that you have for us and for this Committee 
to make sure that folks in that situation aren't having so much 
damage inflicted on them because of the current trade situation 
that we are in.
    Mr. Dane. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Congressman. I 
am glad you brought that up. The trade policy that we are 
talking about is extremely complex, and there--it is--it is far 
more than the softwood lumber which gets all the attention. I 
have been in touch with your constituents up in New York, and 
we have made it very clear that we support the softwood lumber 
tariffs and duties. However, we do not support the impacts to 
hardwood exports, the point being is these markets are limited 
in the United States. Most of the people up near your district 
are sourcing or marketing domestically about 50 percent of 
their hardwood, but there is no other market left beyond that 
capacity, so the China market was extremely important. And 
until we get more domestic markets established in the United 
States, the American Loggers Council supports the export of 
hardwood logs to China, and we have made that clear to the 
Administration in our discussions with them as well.
    Mr. Riley. Well, I appreciate that very much, and I think 
what you described is, as I understand it, with my 
constituent's business, exactly the case. They have a 
significant, even a majority domestic market, but that market 
can't absorb everything, and so they have depended on access to 
foreign markets. I think all of it goes to the point that a 
smart, strategic, targeted trade policy in this country needs 
to make sure that Americans are operating on a level playing 
field, and it needs to be thoughtful instead of just throwing a 
bunch of stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks. And we 
are seeing, if we had a thoughtful strategic trade policy, this 
business would be thriving, would be continuing to thrive, and 
so I appreciate the nuance that you are thinking about this. 
And, Mr. Chairman, with that, I will yield back.
    The Chairman. All right. Thank you, Mr. Riley. I will 
recognize Mr. Wied from Wisconsin.
    Mr. Wied. Well, thank you, Chairman LaMalfa and Ranking 
Member Salinas, for this hearing today.
    Wisconsin has a strong heritage with the forest products 
industry, employing over 57,000 people and contributing nearly 
$27 billion to our state economy. The industry ranks second in 
economic output for our state. Wisconsin has been a leader in 
the lumber industry for nearly 200 years, and I am proud that 
my home county, Brown County, is the leader for the state in 
terms of jobs and output. Without proper management of our 
forests, the rest of this incredibly important industry for 
Wisconsin's 8th District would cease to exist. As far as forest 
management, I am proud to represent the Menominee Nation, who 
are frequently recognized as managing one of the most 
sustainable forests in the world. I am proud to serve on this 
Subcommittee for this reason and have enjoyed being able to 
learn more about the state of American forestry and how we as 
Congress can do a better job.
    So, as I got to Congress, I immediately recognized the 
importance of Wisconsin's timber and paper industry and, 
specifically, maintaining and improving the safety and 
efficiency of it. Even though it is a transportation- and 
infrastructure-referred bill, I wanted to reference how proud I 
was to introduce the bipartisan Safe Routes Act of 2025 (H.R. 
2166) to promote exactly this by opening up more short-distance 
routes for loggers. Mr. Dane, and I will open this up to anyone 
here, what are some more creative ways we could promote safety 
and efficiency for loggers?
    Mr. Dane. Mr. Chairman, Congressman, it is nice to meet 
you. I have heard a lot about you from Henry Simbeck who was 
here yesterday with me doing some work.
    Mr. Wied. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. A couple of things to think about. You referenced 
the Menominee Tribe, and they are known nationally as one of 
the most productive forest programs in the country. And when I 
talked to them, they told me that their chief with their 
forestland said you start at one end and you log across, 
selectively, you practice forest management until you get to 
the other end, and then you turn around and you start over 
again. They recognize sustainable forestry and practice that as 
well as other Tribes, I am sure, across the country. Now, when 
it comes to safer routes, I really appreciate that. That is an 
important issue. We have no consistency in the United States 
for efficient transportation.
    Mr. Wied. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. We have states that can run 99,000 pounds, that 
can run 100,000 thousand pounds year round, different axle 
configurations, and they are forcing these logging trucks to 
avoid the interstate--that is what we are talking about, the 
interstate here--and use county and state roads.
    Mr. Wied. Right.
    Mr. Dane. In Minnesota, we used to have to run down a 
cobblestone road in Duluth, Minnesota, parallel to an 
interstate system. Now, we did get the law changed and allowed 
us to go around Duluth, Minnesota and use the interstate for a 
23 mile corridor.
    Mr. Wied. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. That would be one step. Another thing for the 
farm bill would be the future careers in logging. Workforce 
development is critical issue. The timber industry is based on 
small, multigenerational family businesses. These are not large 
corporations. These are family businesses.
    Mr. Wied. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. And they just want to train their family members 
coming up, just like farmers can do right now, when their 
children are 16 and 17 years old to operate mechanized 
equipment. Logging is mechanized today. There is still hand 
filling, but the majority of it is mechanized. We just want 
that same opportunity to train the next generation coming up. 
The Secure Our Rural Schools that was mentioned here, for the 
first time it is not funded, and it is going to be 
catastrophic.
    Mr. Wied. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. This was designed to replace funding that was 
lost by the reduction of Federal timber harvesting receipts to 
keep these communities that are forestry dependent whole, and 
so Secure Our Rural Schools is important. And then Loggers 
Economic Assistance and Relief Act (H.R. 4665) was recently 
introduced by Congressman Golden, and it is cosponsored by 
Congressman Pete Stauber from Minnesota. We need to have some 
safety nets in place for these industries when markets are 
closing and stuff. And then, of course, the biomass power under 
the renewable fuel standard and the tax credits would go a long 
way as well, sir.
    Mr. Wied. Great. Well, thank you. Anyone else? We have 
about 30 seconds.
    Ms. Barnes. Mr. Chairman, if I may, in Utah, piggybacking 
off what he said, partnering with the colleges for rural 
education in our communities is something we focused on big. 
The forestry industry is somewhat depleted in our areas, so 
making sure that we can build that trade still in our rural 
communities is something that is very important. I would also 
say, in Utah, we have a different type of timber market, so not 
quite the same of what you are talking about, but also economic 
development is important in our communities, and also money 
from economic development, whether it is at the state or the 
local or even the Federal level, but to help these businesses 
get started up. And then also, long-term timber contracts that 
they can rely on in order to start producing, and get credit, 
and start up these businesses has been really important in 
Utah. Utah lost two of our mills recently to fires, and so 
trying to get those mills back online and getting them to be in 
a profitable manner has been really difficult with our market.
    Mr. Wied. Yes. Great. All right. Well, thank you for being 
here, and with that I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Wied. For those Members or 
staff that are monitoring our Committee on TV, et cetera, we 
are getting down to the last couple questions here. So, if they 
are on the sidelines or straddling other committees, I would 
encourage them to come to our Subcommittee if they wish. So, 
anyway, I will recognize myself for a little bit for questions 
of our panel. Again, thank you all for being here, and I will 
start with Mr. Dane.
    You stated a bit earlier that the timber harvest in our 
forest system has declined by about 75 percent--I think this is 
from about the mid-1990s or so--from a high of about 13 billion 
board-feet to right around 3 billion board-feet right now, so, 
and even that number, 3 billion, is below what was actually 
authorized under current forest plans across the country. So, 
talk to me about that inventory. What does that mean as far as 
the number of board-feet we are growing each year versus the 
number of board-feet we are taking out?
    Mr. Dane. Yes. The harvest volume is 25 percent of the 
growth volume on National Forests, so that----
    The Chairman. So, juxtapose that with overcrowded trees and 
landscapes, and things like that. So, if we are going to be 
removing product at 25 percent of the growth, 3 to 1--1 to 3--
how is that going to be successful long-term on thinning 
forests and getting back to a balance of fire safety and not 
overdraft of the--what is water supply. And it might be, we see 
when we have arid areas that go through drought, it exacerbates 
it. So, touch on that more specifically, please.
    Mr. Dane. The USDA's announcement that they want to 
increase--in the President's announcement, they want to 
increase timber harvest by 25 percent, that would take us from 
3 billion board-feet to 4 million board-feet, roughly 
speaking--4 billion board-feet. Excuse me.
    The Chairman. So, in one sense, 25 percent sounds like a 
lot. On the other hand, if we are keeping up with just a mere 
fraction of what is growing out there, then that hardly even 
touches the issue level we should be. Do you agree with that 
or----
    Mr. Dane. I agree with that, and you are correct, and the 
emphasis needs to really be placed on the western states. 
People look at Minnesota as an example where the Federal 
forests represent 11 percent of the forestland, and they only 
contribute four percent of the harvested volume. Now, that is--
11 percent, four percent, that is a small amount. When you are 
out West, you are looking at 50+ percent of Federal land out 
there. So it is much more dependent upon increasing the Federal 
timber supply to support the mills and increasing capacity for 
domestic production. So, the initial steps are not going to be 
sufficient to really address the hazard of the density at this 
time.
    The Chairman. And where does the U.S. rank on imported 
lumber as far as other countries?
    Mr. Dane. I am afraid I don't have that answer. I know 
where the U.S. ranks at the top.
    The Chairman. My understanding, it is--up until China had 
their downturn in the economy, we were number two. Now we are 
the number one importer of wood products, so----
    Mr. Dane. We are number one. Yes, sir.
    The Chairman. I don't know how that makes much sense, but, 
Dr. Monohan, again, thank you for being part and for your--our 
interactions earlier on in NorCal. Appreciate that. You noted 
some hesitancy of Forest Service personnel to use new tools and 
authorities unless that has been a long established pattern. 
So, there have been discussions with Forest Service on 
developing training to help familiarize staff with such 
authorities, so can you talk a little more about what it takes 
to get personnel up to speed to be either aware of them or be 
comfortable or even aggressive on implementing them?
    Dr. Monohan. Thank you, Chairman LaMalfa. The idea or the 
discussion we had with Chief Schultz and his Office of Tribal 
Relations, Reed Robinson, was to try and provide training 
materials that came from the Forest Service for the Forest 
Service, and that would be the most effective way to have 
grants and agreements folks, for example, become familiar with 
how to utilize the Service First authority with Tribes that are 
coming towards them. We work mostly with people directly in the 
districts, right--the silviculturists, the forest engineers, 
sometimes the forest ranger--to be able to identify work that 
is needed. Those are different folks than the ones that are 
doing the grants and agreements, and that connection between 
the two is not something an external partner can necessarily be 
the best at making. And so, by having those kinds of trainings, 
that is what we are hoping to be able to improve efficiencies 
for.
    The Chairman. Okay. Thank you. My 5 minutes is expiring, 
but we are going to go to a second round, so I will recognize 
my colleague, Ms. Salinas, here for her second round.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you for the additional time, Chairman 
LaMalfa. So, I am going to go back to you, Dr. Monohan. The 
President's budget proposal includes significant cuts to 
states' Tribal and private forestry programs, and as we have 
been talking about, these programs provide technical and 
financial assistance to landowners and resource managers to 
help sustain the nation's forests and grasslands, protect 
communities from wildfire, and restore forest ecosystems. Can 
you dive in a little bit deeper and describe how Mooretown 
Rancheria interacts with these programs and what their 
elimination would actually mean for you and your Tribe?
    Dr. Monohan. Thank you for the question, Ranking Member 
Salinas. We are in a time of great change. We are at an 
inflection point, and we are looking for the most efficient way 
to do the most basic forestry practices, and sustained funding 
for ongoing forest management is going to be a critical piece 
of that. Right now, the funding that we have the most of, the 
most types, is wildfire crisis funding, so it is after the 
horrible thing has taken place. It is that crisis funding that 
comes down to the districts, and it is a response to the 
wildfire. I think that forests have been in need of ongoing 
sustained funding for a really long time, and that will be 
ongoing.
    Ms. Salinas. And would their elimination harm localities' 
ability to implement responsible forest management practices, 
and what would the effect be for economic development for 
Tribes?
    Dr. Monohan. Every Tribe does forestry a little bit 
differently. For our Tribe, it could be devastating to not have 
Federal partners in order to do this work.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. All right. So, I am struggling with 
trying to figure out what the Administration's plan is around 
forest management. I am hearing so many different things, and 
so, Dr. DeLuca, this question will go to you. Adding a billion 
board-feet of harvest on Federal forests and then this 
competing idea that we are seeing increases in pests and 
disease and wildfire risk, and I am not sure how you reconcile 
a calculated board-feet harvest with our goals on ecosystems 
and reducing pest disease and wildfires. Can you help explain 
how we get to balance and some of the scientific research 
around that?
    Dr. DeLuca. I can try. It is--thank you. Yes, it is complex 
and I can try, but the whole problem here is complexity. I have 
been thinking about this as my fellow panelists have been 
talking. We have the significant problem. It is particularly 
bad in the West and in the dry forest types in particular. The 
value of the timber that exists in those landscapes, having 
been managed and then not managed, it is small-diameter, low-
value material, and getting it to market is an enormous 
challenge onto itself. Historically, that was managed by Native 
American communities for millennia using fire. We are talking 
about trying to use mechanical treatments to get in and reduce 
the density of those stands, improve the forest health of those 
stands. That requires resources because of the fact that the 
value is low and the distance to markets is far, so it is very 
complex.
    At the same time, the value of timber has dropped through 
the floor recently, and mills are in trouble. The existing mill 
infrastructure is in trouble. So, as we are trying to ramp up 
production on Federal land just by 25 percent, where is that 
going to go? It does provide an opportunity for private 
landowners to go into a longer rotation, but they have to be 
able to sustain that longer rotation in terms of, economically, 
is it viable to them. So, it is incredibly complex, but I 
believe that we know where the biggest problems exist on the 
landscape, and we know where the most structures and people's 
lives are at risk, and that, of course, is where we have 
managed heavily in the past and then we ceased that management. 
So, targeting near communities and in areas of dry forest type 
make the most sense.
    The problem is the highest-value timber isn't going to be 
located there. It is going to be in wet, more moist forest 
types and in areas where, yes, forest health treatments are 
needed, but that may be that it is not at the level of priority 
as the dry forest types, which lack the mill infrastructure. 
So, sorry to just amp up the complexity perhaps, but I think 
that Dr. Monohan's point about fire having been a part of this 
landscape, it is a fundamental part of the ecology of these 
forests, and we need to learn how to live with fire and how to 
work with fire. And that means using those mechanical 
treatments that allow us to get fire back on the land then 
allow fire to do the work that it normally does in a way that 
doesn't threaten communities and threaten lives and economies.
    There is also more to say about private land management and 
the amount of timber that is being generated there versus what 
is being generated on Federal land and putting that in that 
global context, because, yes, we are importing--30 percent of 
our total lumber demand is coming from outside the country, and 
it is coming from places that don't have the environmental laws 
like we do have here. And so, we actually export an 
environmental footprint that we don't have necessarily here in 
this country, and that global context needs to be taken. Sorry 
I went over a little.
    Ms. Salinas. No. Thank you. Thank you for your response. I 
only gave you 3 minutes to explain something very complex. 
Thank you.
    The Chairman. We can loosen up here a little bit at the 
end, so that is all right. Let me come back to you, Dr. 
Monohan, on, we were talking about the personnel and ability to 
get out the tools and use them a little bit more. Is there any 
more you wish to finish on that thought before we go to the 
next thought?
    Dr. Monohan. I think I said the most important things. I 
just think that we do need those folks that are familiar with 
the districts and are designing the treatments that need to be 
done in those areas to continue to do the work that they are 
doing on the--on the Forest Service side, if you will.
    The Chairman. Well, I guess it is more specific on newer 
tools and newer ideas that--and authorities, exclusive, et 
cetera. Are they--hasn't been to--seems it hasn't been the 
participation or desire to use those tools as strongly as 
some--there is a lot of frustration out there, so.
    Dr. Monohan. Yes, that is correct.
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Dr. Monohan. It is definitely people using what they 
already know or what they were trained to use, and those older 
ways of doing work are, in general, less efficient than using 
their Tribal partners through the Service First authority.
    The Chairman. What do we need to take it to the next level? 
Do you see pent-up demand or roadblocks towards having more 
Tribal and local participation as more towns have been doing 
and trying to partner with others on?
    Dr. Monohan. I think that is the opportunity we are looking 
at squarely in the face and trying to figure out how to do 
that. Using Service First for harvesting timber won't 
necessarily be the right tool. We will need to use the Good 
Neighbor Authority and thank you for this Committee's work on 
that.
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Dr. Monohan. It is very exciting. Again, we have a couple 
of folks that are interested in having that conversation with 
us at different forests.
    The Chairman. Are you seeing any impediments to do that 
right now from the government side, or is it a matter of just 
getting out there and getting after it?
    Dr. Monohan. It will be interesting to see how it plays 
out. It will take time. The treatment has to be fully figured 
out in order to use a Good Neighbor agreement. That is on the 
Forest Service's shoulders, and they are at capacity.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Dr. Monohan. So, the extent to which that gets out to us 
will depend on their ability to get those treatments ready to 
be put into an agreement. That is a time-consuming process.
    The Chairman. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Dane, let's come back to 
the tree mortality situation a little bit. That mortality seems 
to be running around nearly two percent per year, additional 
trees dying off, and that is not counting fire. Is that just 
insects or age, or other factors?
    Mr. Dane. That includes fire from the chart that I 
submitted with my testimony today.
    The Chairman. It does include fire.
    Mr. Dane. Fire, natural disasters, insect infestation, yes.
    The Chairman. Yes. I guess when I look at some of our 
Sierra forests here that haven't burned, like one example east 
of Fresno there when we have traveled, there are so many gray 
trees amidst the green ones, and so that has got to be insect 
or drought. So, what representation is that of the overall 
problem?
    Mr. Dane. It is a big part of it. In Minnesota, we had a 
30,000 acre fire this year. We don't have a lot of wildfires in 
Minnesota. It was all spruce budworm kill in the National 
Forest, so infestation and mortality as a result of that 
definitely has an impact. Many years ago, when Colorado was 
impacted by the lodgepole pine beetle infestation, the Forest 
Service, the counties, they got together and said, ``Well, we 
need to address this problem we have here, let's get the 
loggers to come in here and clean this up.'' And then they had 
a little bit more of a conversation and they said, ``Wait a 
minute, where are all the loggers that used to be here in 
Colorado?'' And they said, ``Oh, we ran them off 20 years 
ago.''
    The Chairman. Yes.
    Mr. Dane. So, they actually called Minnesota loggers to 
come down to Colorado to explore cleaning up the timber down 
there. So, the infestations are a problem, and if you don't 
have support for a timber industry, you can't just turn the 
light switch on and bring loggers in to clean up those messes.
    The Chairman. So, you can count on a lot of it being not 
just insects or drought, but on wildfire, too. Tell me a little 
about what is your thinking on the way wildfire is handled. We 
have had some frustration in past years of a monitoring 
approach with Forest Service on at least several California 
fires, and even though there were promises made to jump on them 
as soon as possible, why does it seem there is so much 
frustration with monitoring, or my deal is I always like to say 
I would like to get the fire out before it has a name or a tee 
shirt vendor selling it with the name. So, how do we--what is 
your--what is your picture--why do you picture that with the--
how the veracity of a getting at the fire and how hard it is 
fought on Federal land?
    Mr. Dane. When my son was young, he fell down and got 
injured and hurt his back, and they were--he actually lost 
feeling from his waist down for a period of time. And we 
brought him into the doctor, and the doctor said, ``Well, we 
are going to practice skillful neglect.'' I said, ``What does 
that that mean?'' He said, ``We are not going to do anything. 
We will just watch and see what happens.'' I think that 
describes the firefighting response for the past few decades of 
skillful neglect of monitoring. However, this new 
Administration, this new fire chief, U.S. Forest Service, USDA 
is taking a much more aggressive approach to firefighting. Now, 
it can be argued that that aggressive approach might contribute 
to the buildup of density and fuels and stuff, but you got one 
choice or the other, and I think that we can deal with the 
fuels in a different way than strictly fire.
    The Chairman. Fire is a great tool if used properly. Of 
course we had an example in New Mexico a few years ago. I wish 
our colleague could have been here to ask about that, but I 
think over 300,000 acres from a prescribed fire that was done 
incorrectly timing-wise, weather-wise, what have you.
    Is hesitancy for using more of good fire grow out of that, 
or are we utilizing prescribed fire the way we should be?
    Mr. Dane. I don't think we are utilizing it to the degree 
that we could be utilizing it. It is very tricky. I have been 
on wildfires myself and everything else like that, so I know 
one time a fire got away. They do get away, I mean, and it was 
interesting. The after-action report that came out on that, the 
Forest Service said we had an over-achievement of our 
prescribed fire plan.
    The Chairman. Hmm. Yes, treated acres. Ms. Barnes, would 
you like to touch upon that from the Utah perspective?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes, I would. Thank you for that, Mr. Chairman. 
I think prescribed fire is something we try to use in Utah and 
use it the right way. This year, we were in a full suppression 
mode on all fires because of the drought in Utah and because of 
the excessive fuels. We had two really good winters that had an 
excessive grass crop with flashy fuels and hot temperatures, 
but I do think that we have to be careful when we are doing 
prescribed fire. It is easy to turn a community off to 
prescribed fire if it is not done in the right way. It is a 
useful tool on the landscape that can be done wisely and 
correctly. Right now in Utah, managing our forests is something 
that we have looked at doing cross-boundary-wise and using all 
kinds of different methods to do that, but I think it is an 
important way to use prescribed fire on the landscape. Also, we 
have a lot of beetle kill in Utah. Trying to figure out what to 
do with those trees, get in, and reduce those fuels on that 
landscape is something that is very important to us that we are 
trying to work through. Those present a catastrophic wildfire 
hazard, and so reducing that is very important.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I have blown through my timeline 
that is loosening up here. I will recognize Ms. Salinas for a 
while.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, Chairman LaMalfa. This has been a 
great conversation. So, Ms. Barnes, in your testimony, you 
touched on the importance of the Reforestation, Nurseries, and 
Genetics Resources program, which supports tree planting to 
help rehabilitate forestlands after severe fire events and 
other natural disasters. Can you share some more specifics as 
to why additional investment in the reforestation supply chain 
is needed?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. So, this RNGR program is something that 
has been really important, bringing partners in for native 
plant seed, and talking about reforestation work, also for 
seedling production and focusing on adequate supplies of 
seedlings. Unfortunately, in Utah, more than a few years ago, 
probably within the last 10 years, we lost our nursery in Utah, 
so we rely on other states now for that seedling production or 
private nurseries in that area for that, or a seed warehouse 
where we do seeding but don't have any of the seedlings. So, 
ultimately, this is very important for forest resilience, 
landscape reclamation, and also just for the rehabilitation 
after extreme fire events, and it is something that really 
needs to be focused on.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, and I appreciate that, given that I 
do have a big nursery industry in Oregon, so I do hope Oregon 
is a state that you look to, but would love to work with you on 
that program.
    Ms. Barnes. Yes, that would be great.
    Ms. Salinas. Okay, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I wanted to go over this roadless 
issue a little bit here because it has been made controversial. 
And so, Ms. Barnes, what have you seen in Utah and the other 
areas you have expertise on with--previous roads, we have a lot 
that has happened in California, but roads that already existed 
being removed. I know of people saying, ``Well, they are paid, 
contracted to remove roads.'' And so, when we talk about 
roadless areas, what are the facts on areas that did used to 
have roads and were actually able to be logged, managed, 
utilized, et cetera, and then made roadless because of neglect, 
became too expensive is sometimes the excuse to maintain, or 
just, flat, the priorities changed and they didn't want roads 
on them anymore. Do you have any insight on that inventory of 
roads going down versus some of the areas being talked about 
for possible new roads going in?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. I don't have those exact numbers. I would 
be happy to provide those with you as far as Utah goes on the 
inventory of the number of roads. The Roadless Rule in Utah----
    The Chairman. What does the trend feel like to you in Utah 
then?
    Ms. Barnes. There are quite a few areas that have been 
closed off due to the Roadless Rule that prevents us from 
getting in and doing work in that area.
    The Chairman. But, you used to have roads or----
    Ms. Barnes. Correct, yes.
    The Chairman. Yes. So, they have been taken out.
    Ms. Barnes. Yes. So, with regard to that, Utah would 
support being able to get into areas to do fuel mitigation 
work. The one thing that we can't control is where that fire 
starts, and that is the unfortunate place for us. The one thing 
we can try to control is the fuels, like I was talking about 
earlier. So, being able to navigate through those areas and 
remove those hazardous fuels is something that we would benefit 
from, and also being able to reduce the risk of catastrophic 
wildfire.
    The Chairman. What do you think of this contention that 
installing roads means more fire where the roads are versus how 
fires are caused, because what I notice in my area is that you 
will have hundreds--many hundreds of lightning strikes causing 
fire of one size or the other versus roadways that do have 
people going up and down them. Like, the Carr Fire in Redding 
was caused by a flat tire on somebody towing a trailer and 
ground the tire down until you made sparks and it got in the 
weeds. Even then, the response could have probably put it out, 
but that is a different story. So, what about this idea that 
roaded areas are somehow a greater fire danger than natural 
causes, such as lightning, et cetera?
    Ms. Barnes. Yes, I think there is truth to that. I mean, in 
Utah we have a number of human-caused wildfires.
    The Chairman. Sure.
    Ms. Barnes. One thing we have done in Utah is we have 
started what we call the Fire Sense Program, and that is 
changing human behaviors of how humans start wildfires. We have 
been really successful at reducing human-caused wildfires in 
Utah. This is an educational campaign. We have been able to 
reduce human-caused wildfires. They were up in the upwards of 
80 percent. We are now down into the 50 to 60 percent, so that 
is almost a 60 percent reduction in some years for human-caused 
wildfires. Unfortunately, this year, we have seen some large 
fires on our landscape in Utah that have been caused by humans. 
We also get a lot of dry lightning in Utah, and that also 
causes fires. But I think focusing on what your number one 
cause of those starts are and starting campaigns like we have 
for Fire Sense that really focuses on that human behavior 
change is really, really important. I would encourage other 
states to look to Utah as we have had a lot of success in that 
area. The one thing that we can control, and I will go back to 
that, is just the fuels on the landscape by doing proactive 
work, and that is something that we are trying to get better at 
doing.
    The Chairman. Certainly. We have worked legislatively to 
try to have more clearance around roads, and especially power 
lines, too, we are not talking every Forest Service road, per 
se, of having a wide gap, but certainly along our highways, our 
freeways, the bigger roads, we need to have a wider buffer 
between them and the forested area. And, Mr. Dane, would you 
touch on that a little bit, too, please with the roadless 
conversation?
    Mr. Dane. Yes. Mr. Chairman, I really appreciate the 
opportunity. I was getting a little anxious there. I wanted to 
try chime in there. The Roadless Rule was an end-run to block 
access, and particularly for logging and mining. That is my 
opinion, okay? However, it was an artificial restriction. 
Before the Roadless Rule, for 100 years, forest management was 
working just fine. So, according to the American Forest 
Resource Council, nearly half of all roadless acres are located 
in areas rated as high or very high wildfire risk. Since the 
Roadless Rule was enacted, more than 8 million acres of 
roadless forests have burned, highlighting the consequences of 
limiting access and management.
    The Chairman. Yes. And so, the Roadless Rule was merely put 
in by the Forest Service as a guidance or as a rule. It wasn't 
made by a change of law, correct?
    Mr. Dane. Yes, it was a rule. In fact, if you look back at 
the history of it, there were quite a few comments opposing it 
from within the Forest Service.
    The Chairman. Within the Forest Service. Okay. So, I guess 
the winds change on that a little bit, don't they? Do you have 
anything more? You got shorted last time. Okay. All right. 
Well, I could go all day, but I don't think everybody wants to 
do that. We are pretty fired up about this issue.
    So, I will close a little bit on the personnel, which is 
indeed a difficult one, with Forest Service, that we know that 
they have over 11,000 firefighters on hand, which, actually, is 
above their stated goal for 2025. So, we have--did have--indeed 
have employees leave the agency, and some do hold red cards and 
those were able to be recalled, and a handful--300 of them 
are--came back that actually ever had fire experience. So, the 
numbers we are talking about on the firefighting side is--we 
are not out of bounds, so, and, indeed, we will come back to 
the thought that staffing is a challenge. We had a firing--
excuse me--a hiring freeze that was initiated over a year ago 
under the previous regime as well, you can go back and forth on 
that, but I think we will continue to work to make sure that we 
have the best trained, best equipped as best we can, and we 
will get through this because we want great results.
    And the partnerships like Dr. Monohan was working on, and 
those are pretty great, and many others around the country, so 
we want to expand upon that with more success in the farm bill. 
We still have to address the skinny portion in the farm bill 
where policy changes and updates will be done here soon, and 
so, hopefully, we can get that done, right? So, I think we are 
in a pretty good spot for today's hearing. I look forward to 
having more here soon. We have been trying to drink from a fire 
hose so far this year, so I would like to have more of this 
activity right, Ms. Salinas, and address it because it is a big 
thing.
    Ms. Salinas. Yes.
    The Chairman. It is an ongoing issue in the midst of this 
fire season here. Thankfully, it hasn't been worse, but I won't 
say that to people's six-digit fires in their district too 
much. So, anyway let me get to the legalities here real 
quickly, and we will----
    Ms. Salinas. Mr. Chairman?
    The Chairman. Did you have a closing thought?
    Ms. Salinas. Just quickly, yes.
    The Chairman. Okay. Let me recognize Ms. Salinas for a 
closing statement.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you again 
to our witnesses for being here today. Like I said, the 
conversation was very robust, and I think we had a lot of 
takeaways. And I am really concerned, actually, about our 
forest health and the capacity to address it at the Federal 
level, and I don't think we are making the right investments. 
We weren't at a place of full capacity when I got to Congress 
in 2023, and the situation has only gotten worse. And from the 
witnesses today, I think we all do need to work together to 
figure this out, to make sure that we have market access and a 
fair level playing field for the wonderful product that we do 
have here in the United States. And I think we have to figure 
out how we restore balance, but we do need the help of the 
Federal Government, and the workforce that it provides, and the 
right training as well, and that was a big takeaway for me 
today.
    So, I just want to thank, again, our witnesses. I am eager 
to work across the aisle with my colleagues and to figure out 
how we move something that meets the moment and meets the 
demand that we are seeing. So, thank you, and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you. All right. About to wrap up here, 
too. So, I guess just one final thought on the roadless areas 
is that just because it might be declared open to 58 million 
acres additionally, it doesn't mean all 58 million are going to 
have that work done on them. It is going to be pretty strategic 
in where, if it is access to timber or if it is an issue of the 
best strategy for the infrastructure for fighting fire. 
Sometimes the things get a little hysterical on that, but 
certainly you are not going to see all 58 million acres 
immediately affected by roads. I have had some conservationists 
or outdoors folks expressing some opinions with me on that, and 
it is when you are talking about some of our trails for--
Pacific Crest Trail, actually, is closed in a portion right 
now. And that is--you are not going to necessarily preserve all 
of it by being forced to stay out of it.
    So, I think what we are just after here really is the 
ability to manage the land and have it be healthy, fire safe, 
and, of course, the economic value that we used to have for our 
communities that the timber and seeds will bring. Instead, we 
have to go hat in hand each year and work on this battle for 
Secure Rural Schools, which I hope we can get done in this CR 
round here because we are way over time on that, and it is kind 
of shameful. So, with that, thank you, panelists. Thank you for 
your time, your travel, and for everybody taking part, our 
staff here both sides of the aisle, fellow colleagues.
    So, under Rules of the Committee, the record of today's 
hearing will remain open for 10 calendar days to receive 
additional material or supplementary written responses from any 
of the witnesses to any question posed by any of the Members 
today.
    So, this hearing of the Subcommittee on Forestry and 
Horticulture is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:55 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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