[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                 




 
                   AN UPDATE ON MAIL THEFT AND CRIME

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS

                                 of the

              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 23, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-43

                               __________

Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

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    Available on: govinfo.gov, oversight.house.gov or docs.house.gov
    
             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-721 PDF              WASHINGTON : 2025   
    
    
    
    
    
    
              COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                    JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman

Jim Jordan, Ohio                     Robert Garcia, California, Ranking 
Mike Turner, Ohio                        Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona                  Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina            Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin            Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas                 Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Gary Palmer, Alabama                 Ro Khanna, California
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Pete Sessions, Texas                 Shontel Brown, Ohio
Andy Biggs, Arizona                  Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Nancy Mace, South Carolina           Maxwell Frost, Florida
Pat Fallon, Texas                    Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Byron Donalds, Florida               Greg Casar, Texas
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania            Jasmine Crockett, Texas
William Timmons, South Carolina      Emily Randall, Washington
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Suhas Subramanyam, Virginia
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Yassamin Ansari, Arizona
Lauren Boebert, Colorado             Wesley Bell, Missouri
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida           Lateefah Simon, California
Nick Langworthy, New York            Dave Min, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri              Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eli Crane, Arizona                   Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Brian Jack, Georgia                  Vacancy
John McGuire, Virginia
Brandon Gill, Texas

                                 ------                                

                       Mark Marin, Staff Director
                   James Rust, Deputy Staff Director
                     Mitch Benzine, General Counsel
               Lauren Hassett, Professional Staff Member
                      Bill Womack, Senior Advisor
      Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk

                      Contact Number: 202-225-5074

                Robert Edmonson, Minority Staff Director
                      Contact Number: 202-225-5051
                                 ------                                

                 Subcommittee On Government Operations

                     Pete Sessions, Texas, Chairman

Virginia Foxx, North Carolina        Kweisi Mfume, Maryland, Ranking 
Gary Palmer, Alabama                     Minority Member
Tim Burchett, Tennessee              Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of 
Brian Jack, Georgia                      Columbia
Brandon Gill, Texas                  Maxwell Frost, Florida
                                     Emily Randall, Washington
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page

Hon. Pete Sessions, U.S. Representative, Chairman................     1

Hon. Maxwell Frost, U.S. Representative..........................     2

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Brendan Donahue, Inspector in Charge, United States Postal 
  Inspection Service
Oral Statement...................................................     4

Mr. Julius Rothstein, Deputy Inspector General, U.S. Postal 
  Service Office of Inspector General
Oral Statement...................................................     7

Mr. Brian Renfroe, President, National Association of Letter 
  Carriers
Oral Statement...................................................     9

Mr. Frank Albergo, President, Postal Police Officers Association
Oral Statement...................................................    11

Mr. Anthony Holloway, Chief of Police, St. Petersburg, Florida 
  Police Department
Oral Statement...................................................    12

Written opening statements and bios are available on the U.S. 
  House of Representatives Document Repository at: 
  docs.house.gov.

                           INDEX OF DOCUMENTS

  * Statement for the Record, ABA; submitted by Rep. Mfume.

  * Statement for the Record, National Association of Postal 
  Supervisors; submitted by Rep. Sessions.

The documents listed above are available at: docs.house.gov.

                          ADDITIONAL DOCUMENTS

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Albergo; submitted by Rep. 
  Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Albergo; submitted by Rep. 
  Mfume.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Donahue; submitted by Rep. 
  Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Donahue; submitted by Rep. 
  Mfume.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Holloway; submitted by Rep. 
  Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Holloway; submitted by Rep. 
  Frost.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Renfroe; submitted by Rep. 
  Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Renfroe; submitted by Rep. 
  Mfume.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Rothstein; submitted by Rep. 
  Foxx.

  * Questions for the Record: Mr. Rothstein; submitted by Rep. 
  Mfume.

These documents were submitted after the hearing, and may be 
  available upon request.



                   AN UPDATE ON MAIL THEFT AND CRIME

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 23, 2025

                     U.S. House of Representatives

              Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

                 Subcommittee on Government Operations

                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:06 p.m., in 
room HVC-210, U.S. Capitol Visitor Center, Hon. Pete Sessions 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Sessions, Foxx, Palmer, Burchett, 
Mfume, Norton, Frost, and Randall.
    Mr. Sessions. Subcommittee on Government Operations will 
come to order.
    I would like to welcome everyone. Without objection, the 
Chair may declare a recess at any time.
    I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening 
statement.
    Before we go too far, we are being visited today by an 
honorable, distinguished veteran of the United States military. 
And as I was describing to a fellow--a Marine, a gentleman who 
served our country as a Marine, I said, well, this guy, General 
Al Zapanta, retired two-star Special Forces, United States 
Army. And he said, yeah, the Army is kind of like the Armed 
Services.
    So, General Zapanta, if you would please stand up and be 
recognized for your service. Thank you very much.
    [Applause.]
    Mr. Sessions. In fairness, if there are others who have 
served our United States military, if you would please take 
time and stand up and let us honor you also.
    That would be the great Bill Womack, United States Marine 
Corps.
    [Applause.]

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN PETE SESSIONS REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                             TEXAS

    Mr. Sessions. Today's hearing regards the Postal Service's 
response to mail theft and crime. I just took a few minutes and 
met again our guests who are here today to provide us leading-
edge ideas about exactly that issue.
    The Postal Service is charged with delivering mail to every 
address in our Nation six days a week. Within that system, 
there are numerous points where bad actors attempt to steal 
mail and harm people who work for the United States Postal 
Service and others.
    It is common for myself and other Members of Congress to 
hear about mail theft from our constituents. In fact, we hear 
things most days, one way or another, about frustrations as it 
is related to mail security. The Postal Inspection Service, the 
Postal Service law enforcement arm is responding by creating a 
strategy called Project Safe Delivery to combat mail theft.
    While progress has been made, Congress has certainly been 
informed that criminals have increasingly begun to target 
letter carriers also. There has been an 845 percent increase in 
letter carrier robberies from 2019 to 2023. As such, this 
Subcommittee on Government Operations is a part of trying to 
make sure we are staying on top of this issue and to advise our 
colleagues.
    Congress needs to ensure that the Postal Service is 
responding to these threats and keeping not just letter 
carriers safe, but the United States--entire United States 
postal system. Mail theft creates distrust in the system, and 
we need to make sure that more people have not just confidence, 
but that fewer people are taken advantage of.
    For this reason, addressing mail theft and related crime is 
a key to supporting the United States Postal Service in its 
goal to become self-sufficient. I look forward to a robust 
discussion.
    We believed, and Mr. Mfume believed, that this was timely 
some months ago. We have chosen today, well before the 
Thanksgiving and Christmas season, but certainly in time to 
make sure that we hear from each of you about this, and I am 
delighted that you are here today.
    One thing that you will learn today that you may not know, 
and that is the Government Operations Subcommittee and 
government workforce works on a bipartisan basis. We work 
carefully, Mr. Mfume, myself, and the gentleman who sits to my 
right today, Mr. Frost, is a prime example of a person who has 
come to this Subcommittee with the idea we are going to get 
away from fight and go to fix.
    So, I am delighted today to welcome the distinguished 
gentleman from Florida, Mr. Frost, for an opening statement. 
The gentleman is recognized.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF MAXWELL FROST

                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM FLORIDA

    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. And thank you 
so much to our witnesses for being here today.
    Appreciate this hearing on one of the most pressing 
challenges facing the Postal Service, the recent surge of 
crimes committed against the United States mail system and 
postal employees. Postal crimes threaten the safety of our 
letter carriers and disrupt the lives of millions of Americans 
who depend on reliable and secure mail delivery.
    The data we will hear today paints a troubling picture. 
Between fiscal years 2019 and 2023, serious crimes against the 
postal employees nearly doubled nationwide. Attacks on letter 
carriers increased by more than sevenfold during the same 
period.
    In the Fiscal Year 2024 alone, the United States Postal 
Service received more than 268,000 complaints; 100,000 
complaints of mail and volume of receptacle theft, which is 
roughly the same level of complaints received in the Fiscal 
Year 2020.
    Meanwhile, postal inspectors opened over 1,100 cases, 
representing just half of one percent of reported incidents. I 
commend the power of the postal inspectors who achieved an 89 
percent clearance rate in the Fiscal Year 2024 for mail theft 
arrests versus convictions, but the human costs of these crimes 
cannot be captured by the data alone.
    Our letter carriers are dedicated public servants who 
ensure Americans receive critical information, documents, 
ballots, medication, and personal letters. And yet, they are 
the ones being targeted, assaulted, and robbed at high rates.
    The theft of universal arrow keys that letter carriers use 
to unlock mailboxes in bulk have surged from over 1,300 reports 
in 2020 to more than 3,400 reports in 2024. In October 2024, a 
letter carrier based in Baltimore was robbed at knife point on 
their route so the thief could steal a package. These acts are 
abhorrent.
    Mail fraud is another disturbingly, yet sadly prevalent, 
part of postal-related crimes. In 2023, check fraud schemes 
involving the Postal Service resulted in an estimate $688 
million in losses.
    In March 2025, a U.S. district judge sentenced the man in 
Baltimore for exploiting the Postal Service to engage in elder 
fraud schemes of more than $700,000. These crimes destroy 
lives.
    Unfortunately, independent oversight bodies have found gaps 
in the Postal Service response to this crime. The Postal 
Service is working to implement their recommendations, but 
ongoing independent, nonpartisan oversight is critical to 
ensure continued transparency and accountability.
    That is why two years into the launch of Project Safe 
Delivery, our Ranking Member, Mr. Mfume, led a letter to 
request that the GAO conduct a review of implementation and 
results of the initiative. I look forward to reading those 
findings.
    The Postal Service has a constitutional mandate and is the 
lifeline of millions of Americans, particularly in rural 
communities and hard-to-reach areas. When thieves target our 
mail system, they attack the foundation Americans--American 
commerce and communication.
    It is crucial that the Postal Service has the resources, 
authority, and strategic direction needed to protect letter 
carriers, secure the mail, and restore public's trust in the 
Postal Service. Postal employees deserve a workplace where they 
can deliver the mail without fear, and the American people 
deserve a postal system that they can trust.
    I hope this hearing serves as an important step toward 
achieving that goal, but we need everyone on board to do so.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Frost, thank you very much. I appreciate 
not just your comments, but your highlighting, once again, the 
importance of today's hearing.
    I am pleased to welcome our witnesses for today.
    Brendan Donahue is Inspector in Charge of the United States 
Postal Inspection Service.
    Julius Rothstein is Deputy Inspector General at the U.S. 
Postal Service Office of the Inspector General.
    Brian Renfroe is the president of the National Association 
of Letter Carriers.
    Frank Albergo is the president of the Postal Police 
Officers Association.
    And then we have Chief Anthony Holloway, Chief of Police of 
St. Petersburg, Florida Police Department.
    I am delighted that each of you are here today, and while I 
had an opportunity to come down and welcome you, I think that 
the role that you are going to play today will be instrumental 
to every single Member of Congress.
    At this time, I would like to have each of our witnesses 
stand for the administration of oath to witness. Pursuant to 
Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will please stand and raise 
their right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you 
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth, so help you God?
    [Chorus of ayes.]
    Mr. Sessions. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
have all answered in the affirmative and we would like to thank 
you very much, and please take your seat.
    We appreciate your time, your professionalism, and your 
conduct today to lead this Subcommittee toward better answers, 
not just to understand the facts of the case that we have 
talked about, but also your professional witness testimony 
today.
    Please know that while we ask that you limit your oral 
statements to 5 minutes, I would like for you to make sure you 
make your point. I do not want you to stop in the middle of a 
sentence. I want you to finish what you are trying to do.
    Likewise, each of the Members here will afford you that 
same privilege as they are talking with you. We want to make 
sure that you have come here for a reason, and that we 
understand what that is.
    As a reminder, you will notice that in front of you, there 
is a button on the microphone in front of you. Please do, at 
the time you are asked or recognized, that you push that button 
so that the Members can hear you.
    And when you begin to speak, you will see a green light, 
and then after 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow and then 
the red light comes on. At that I ask that you prepare yourself 
to finish your feedback to us.
    I now recognize the distinguished gentleman, Mr. Donahue, 
for his opening statement, and welcome.

STATEMENT OF BRENDAN DONAHUE, INSPECTOR IN CHARGE UNITED STATES 
                   POSTAL INSPECTION SERVICE

    Mr. Donahue. Good afternoon, Chairman Sessions, Ranking 
Member Mfume, and Members of the Committee. I appreciate your 
interest in understanding the U.S. Postal Inspection Service's 
role in securing our Nation's mail and protecting Postal 
Service employees from harm.
    My name is Brendan Donahue, and I am an Inspector in Charge 
for the Postal Inspection Service, the law enforcement, crime 
prevention, and security arm of the United States Postal 
Service.
    In my role, I provide executive leadership for domestic, 
global, and national security. I proudly served as a postal 
inspector and a postal employee since 2012, and I was 
previously a uniformed police officer in Massachusetts.
    I want to specifically talk about mail theft and letter 
carrier robberies with you today, and the steps that we have 
taken to mitigate those crimes. Beginning around 2020 and 
continuing to around 2023, the Postal Service experienced a 
significant increase in theft from mail receptacles, primarily 
driven by financial crimes like check fraud.
    The significant rise in mail theft and associated financial 
crimes has been driven by highly organized criminal groups who 
shifted their focus from high-risk, high-reward crimes to the 
perpetration of low-risk, high-reward financial crimes.
    Although there is no single cause for the shift, it is 
likely due in part, first, to mass pandemic relief fraud 
perpetrated during the COVID-19 pandemic; second, to the 
proliferation of cyber-enabled techniques that facilitate the 
perpetration of financial crime; and third, a lax prosecutorial 
and sentencing climate for property and financial crimes in 
some U.S. jurisdictions.
    Prior to 2020, mail theft from mail receptacles, such as 
blue collection boxes, was primarily perpetrated through forced 
entry or using fishing devices. We countered that with physical 
security enhancements to mail receptacles.
    During the same period these physical security enhancements 
were implemented, and corresponding with a significant rise in 
mail theft, the Postal Service began to experience a marked 
increase in letter carrier robberies. The same organized 
criminal groups perpetrating mail theft-related financial 
crimes have also conducted a vast majority of these robberies 
for postal keys carried by letter carriers.
    To counter these attacks against our postal employees and 
to protect our delivery network, we launched Project Safe 
Delivery, which includes our national strategy to combat mail 
theft and letter carrier robberies.
    Since Project Safe Delivery was launched on May 12, 2023, 
and in fulfillment of our strategy, we have installed more than 
23,000 high-security blue collection boxes nationwide, with an 
additional 16,000 blue collection and relay boxes to be 
installed shortly.
    Replaced more than 42,000 antiquated hour locks with 
electronic locks, with an additional 55,000 to be installed 
shortly.
    Made more than 419 arrests for letter carrier robberies.
    Made more than 2,700 arrests for mail theft-related crimes.
    Conducted 16 enforcement surge operations in ten cities, 
leading to 68 arrests with more than 1,000 investigative 
actions.
    Hired ten Special Assistant United States Attorneys to 
prosecute letter carrier robberies, mail theft, and other 
postal crimes.
    Partnered with local and state law enforcement agencies, 
such as the St. Petersburg, Florida Police Department, who is 
here today, by adding more than 29 state and local law 
enforcement task force officers to specifically investigate 
mail theft-related financial crimes and letter carrier 
robberies, adding to the more than 140 task force officers we 
already have.
    Coordinated with the financial crimes enforcement network 
to identify and analyze financial intelligence, associated mail 
theft-related check fraud.
    Significantly raised reward amounts for information leading 
to the arrest and conviction for postal crimes, including mail 
theft with a reward of up to $100,000, and postal robberies 
with a reward up to $150,000.
    Partnered with American Bankers Association and Independent 
Community Bankers of America to produce and distribute check 
fraud prevention material.
    Raised awareness among postal employees through all 
employee standup talks and pay stub inserts.
    These are just some of the steps we have taken over the 
past two years, and I can report today that we have seen 
significant progress in mitigating these issues. Last fiscal 
year, we saw a 27 percent decrease in letter carrier robberies. 
And this fiscal year we are on track to see a 32 percent 
decrease in letter carrier robberies.
    We have also seen a decrease in measures in mail theft, 
with a 20 percent decrease in mail theft complaints last fiscal 
year, and we are on track to see a four percent decrease in 
mail theft complaints this fiscal year. This progress is 
notable, but we acknowledge that we still have more work to do.
    There are no amount of attacks on our employees and no 
amount of mail theft that will ever be acceptable to us. We 
also continue to face challenges, such as with prosecution, 
sentencing, and investigative tools where Congress' help would 
be beneficial.
    The Postal Inspection Service is committed to protecting 
all postal employees, securing the mail, and defending the 
Postal Service's infrastructure from criminal attack. We have 
answered this call for 250 years, and intend to continue our 
proud tradition of service. We are committed to our mission and 
to continually making significant investments of time, capital, 
personnel, and resources to protect all employees and the mail.
    Thank you, Chairman Sessions, Ranking Member Mfume, and 
Members of the Committee, for the opportunity to submit this 
testimony. I look forward to answering your questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Donahue, thank you very much.
    Mr. Rothstein, before we come to you, I have a request, 
which I am going to grant, pending Mr. Frost's agreeing.
    That is that one of our young Members, the Chairman of the 
Rules Committee, has asked that she be allowed to go first in 
asking questions right now because she has a bunch of votes at 
her Ed and Workforce Committee.
    So, the gentlewoman would be recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Foxx. Mr. Chairman, I truly appreciate this 
dispensation you are giving me, and I appreciate the witnesses 
and Mr. Mfume. And I will make this fairly quick. I will submit 
some questions for the record for you, but I did want to come 
here.
    The Postal Service has always been very important to me. I 
am a person that uses the Postal Service a lot. I write a lot 
of notes. I tell the story to people, when I was a student at 
Appalachian State University in the 1960s, somebody wrote me a 
letter: my name; Boone, North Carolina; no address. The post 
office delivered it to me.
    That is the positive feeling I have about the post office, 
and I want to see us have post offices like that all over the 
country. Now, I know it is too complicated now; life was not 
quite as complicated then.
    I want you to know I use the post office a lot. The people 
in my area use it. It is an important infrastructure for all 
Americans, especially those in rural areas, not only to send 
important documents, bills and letters, but receive sensitive 
items, such as medications and all kinds of important packages. 
My husband uses it an awful lot.
    Therefore, any disruption in the flow of mail through theft 
or other criminal interference should be taken very seriously.
    Mr. Donahue, you have just outlined some excellent things 
that the post office is doing in conjunction with other people, 
and I am not going to ask you to go into detail now, but I am 
going to say, I would like to know what additional steps the 
Postal Service can do to protect mail and workers experiencing 
an increase in robberies and crime without additional cost to 
the post office. I would like to know if there are ways to do 
it.
    And then you alluded to the fact that Congress might be 
able to do some things, and I would like to see those in 
writing.
    And then to all the rest of the witnesses, we want--again, 
constituents want to know when they put a check for their rent 
or utilities in the mail, they expect it to be delivered on 
time, not months later, and then they receive service charges 
and all that.
    But I would like to know from you all any--I will read your 
testimonies, but anything else that you do not have in your 
testimonies that we can do to help the situation.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate again your 
indulgence, and I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Is the gentlewoman 
seeking that she provided data and information and would look 
for them to address that during this hearing or to respond in 
writing?
    Ms. Foxx. No. I will ask that they respond in writing, and 
I will have formal questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Respond in writing. Thank you very much, 
Chairman.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you. And we do have 20-plus votes, and they 
need me. Thank you.
    Mr. Sessions. Yes, ma'am. Good luck at that. If you are at 
the Rules Committee, it can be done very expeditiously, I am 
sure.
    Mr. Rothstein, you are now recognized.

                 STATEMENT OF JULIUS ROTHSTEIN

         DEPUTY INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE

                  OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL

    Mr. Rothstein. Good afternoon, Chairman Sessions, Ranking 
Member Mfume, Members of the Subcommittee.
    My name is Julius Rothstein. I am a Deputy Inspector 
General for the United States Postal Service Office of 
Inspector General. I was an organized crime prosecutor for 
close to 30 years, and prior to coming to the OIG, I led DOJ's 
largest crime intelligence fusion center.
    I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the OIG's work on 
mail theft today. The OIG's mission is promoting the integrity 
and accountability and efficiency of the U.S. Postal Service 
and its regulator. We have oversight responsibility for an 
agency of close to 640,000, with an annual revenue of $80 
billion per year. We also are one of the most active OIGs when 
it comes to closing cases and securing convictions.
    A significant focus of the oversight work that we do 
involves mail theft. It involves both our investigations and 
our audits. And while sometimes mail theft is a singular act 
done by an individual, it is often a comprehensive, complex, 
coordinated effort between a postal employee and outside 
criminal organizations.
    As a result, we work in close cooperation with other law 
enforcement agencies to disrupt and dismantle all elements of 
this criminal network. Given the volume and complexity of these 
cases, we must leverage cutting-edge technology and data 
analytics that allow us to efficiently focus our limited 
resources.
    One example is a powerful data tool that we developed in 
collaboration with the financial services industry and also the 
U.S. Department of the Treasury. It helps us pinpoint exactly 
where in the postal system stolen checks and credit cards go 
missing.
    This tool has proven to be invaluable in allowing us to 
proactively identify mail theft. To date, this tool has 
identified around $250 million in stolen financial instruments, 
leading us to open 75 investigations and obtaining more than 35 
indictments.
    Our data analytics support both our audits and our 
investigations into mail theft. Recently, we used data 
analytics and audits in targeted hotspots around the country 
where we saw mail theft increase.
    We also examined the Postal Service's response to 
mitigating mail theft, and although we found some positive 
steps we are taking toward that end, there remain opportunities 
for improvement.
    These run the gamut from low-tech to high-tech solutions, 
and they include better management and tracking of universal 
arrow keys, timely implementation of new technology, enhanced 
security and maintenance of mailboxes, and improved security 
management at postal facilities as simply as disallowing use of 
backpacks on the workroom floor.
    Analytic support is crucial for our investigations so we 
may focus on stopping large-scale mail theft schemes where 
criminal organizations recruit postal employees often through 
encrypted messaging apps or social media platforms with the 
promise of a quick and easy buck.
    These employees, who have access to the mail, allow them to 
steal letters containing checks, credit cards, and other 
financial instruments. Criminal groups then use these items to 
steal identities, commit forgery and fraud, or sell them 
usually on social media platforms.
    In one recent case in Alabama, we caught a couple of postal 
employees who were recruited to steal checks and mail directed 
at local businesses. Co-conspirators would then alter these 
stolen checks for a higher amount and then sell them on 
encrypted messaging apps. This group stole more than $17 
million from over 1,600 victims.
    As a result of our efforts, one of the postal employees was 
convicted and sentenced to five years in prison, and another 
main co-conspirator received a sentence of eight years.
    Sometimes a single hotline complaint from one of your 
constituents is all we need to open up a larger investigation. 
A recent Washington, D.C., area case started with that, a 
single hotline complaint about a stolen credit card. Through 
detailed analysis, we discovered that this was part of a larger 
overall criminal scheme and linked it to other law enforcement 
investigations in the area.
    In collaboration with the Postal Inspection Service, as 
well as the Montgomery County Police in Maryland, we identified 
a postal worker and external collaborator who stole more than 
2,000 checks worth a total estimated loss of $2.8 million.
    In another case, our special agents uncovered a large 
digital marketplace that sold stolen checks, which also 
included U.S. Treasury checks. This led to a joint Federal and 
local law enforcement investigation in North Carolina, and we 
found a postal employee and co-conspirators had stolen checks 
and sold them on this digital marketplace, costing the victims 
close to $24 million.
    This case also inspired us to develop an analytics tool 
that leverages AI to automate our ability to identify and 
analyze suspected stolen checks. Our agents can now search for 
these checks in far less time, making them more effective and 
efficient.
    This is just a small sample of the work that we do that 
protects the Postal Service, its employees, and the American 
public.
    Thank you, again, for allowing me the opportunity to talk 
about our work, and I look forward to answering any of your 
questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Rothstein, thank you very much.
    The gentleman, Mr. Renfroe, is now recognized.

             STATEMENT OF BRIAN RENFROE, PRESIDENT

            NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF LETTER CARRIERS

    Mr. Renfroe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Mfume, for the opportunity to testify on this issue that is 
critically important to the Nation's 200,000 active letter 
carriers.
    The safety, health, and well-being of the public servants 
that I am privileged to represent are, of course, a top 
priority for me. They should be a top priority for all of us.
    If we want to protect America's mail, we have to first 
protect the people who deliver it. Congress has an opportunity 
to do that by passing the bipartisan Protect Our Letter 
Carriers Act, which is a comprehensive solution that would 
deter crime against postal employees, hold those who commit 
them accountable, and keep letter carriers and America's mail 
safer.
    When I started as a letter carrier in Hattiesburg, 
Mississippi, 21 years ago, violent crime was rare. 
Unfortunately, that is no longer the reality, as we have heard 
earlier in this hearing.
    Since 2022, five letter carriers have been murdered while 
doing their jobs. Thousands of other postal employees have been 
violently attacked. Nearly every single day, I learn of another 
heartbreaking attack against one of our members. And we refuse 
to accept that this is a new normal. It is dangerous for us, it 
is dangerous for the American people, it is dangerous for the 
mail.
    Just last week, new Postmaster General David Steiner 
started his new appointment. He and other leaders of the Postal 
Service take this issue seriously, and they have pursued 
changes to deter these crimes, such as replacing our old lock-
and-key system for accessing mailboxes.
    My union supports the agency's Project Safe Delivery 
initiative, and we applaud the hard work of the Postal 
Inspection Service, which is made up of dedicated public 
servants just like the letter carriers that I represent.
    But the simple fact is, despite their best efforts, the 
scope of this problem has severely outgrown their capacity to 
protect us, and we need protection now. We cannot wait for 
another letter carrier to be murdered, we cannot wait for more 
violent Federal crimes against these civil servants that serve 
the American people every single day to decide that it is 
finally time for legislative action. The time is now.
    Even as these assaults continue to surge, the number of 
arrests and convictions remain alarmingly low. In recent years, 
less than half of these crimes have been followed by an arrest, 
and less than a quarter of these investigations led to 
convictions. So, the majority of those who violently rob and 
assault the public servants in uniform are getting away with it 
with no consequences.
    Regardless of the administration in the White House, at any 
point in time the Department of Justice must prosecute these 
violent Federal crimes. Unlike many topics in this town, this 
is not a partisan or political issue. This is not a finger-
pointing exercise. It is not a blame game. It is a problem that 
everyone should recognize and be 100 percent behind addressing.
    No one wants violent crime in their neighborhood, 
especially crimes that target public servants and jeopardize 
the security of people's mail and packages. You know, everyone 
in this building that is privileged to serve after being 
elected as a Member of Congress is a public servant. All of the 
witnesses here on this panel today are public servants, as are 
many others in this room.
    And a primary duty of any employer, but especially the 
government of the United States of America, should be to ensure 
the safety of its employees. And the top priority for any on-
the-job safety should be to prevent and protect workers from 
the threat of violent crime.
    Americans depend on us. They trust us. We proudly serve 
them every day by delivering mail and packages, as well as 
being important parts of our communities in a number of other 
ways. And letter carriers want nothing more than to serve our 
people, but we must be protected.
    And the people that commit these crimes, they must be 
arrested, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced. I urge you to 
pass the bipartisan Protect Our Letter Carriers Act.
    Thank you, once again, for the invitation to testify, and I 
look forward to answering any questions that you may have.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Renfroe, thank you very much.
    Mr. Albergo, you are now recognized for your opening 
statement. The gentleman is recognized.

             STATEMENT OF FRANK ALBERGO, PRESIDENT

               POSTAL POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Albergo. Good afternoon, Chairman Sessions, Ranking 
Member Mfume, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to speak today.
    It is difficult to overstate how senseless and, quite 
frankly, indefensible the current posture of the Postal 
Inspection Service has become. We are not talking about 
abstract policy failures. We are talking about a measurable 
collapse in institutional responsibility happening in real time 
with real victims.
    In 2010, there were just over 2,200 high-volume mail theft 
attacks. By 2023, that number skyrocketed to over 49,000, a 
2,000-percent explosion. And yet, throughout this period, the 
Inspection Service denied there was a crisis, suppressed 
internal data, and removed its own uniform police from the 
streets.
    This is not about lost birthday cards anymore. We have 
entered an era of organized postal crime. Earlier this year, 
the FBI warned Americans not to mail checks; a public vote of 
no confidence from one Federal agency to another.
    And at a time when law enforcement agencies across the 
country were expanding uniform patrols, the Inspection Service 
did the opposite. In 2020, it benched its own Federal police 
force. Even worse, it publicly declared that it had 
comprehensively curtailed postal police patrols, effectively 
inviting postal crime.
    Instead of prevention, the Inspection Service has become 
reactive, conducting investigations only after the damage is 
done. But you cannot stop crime with a case file. You stop it 
with visible police presence. That is what the postal police 
force did for 50 years. That is what we are still trained and 
equipped to do. And if anyone says otherwise, they are not 
being truthful.
    The Inspection Service's own data confirmed that postal 
police officers are the agency's most effective tool to stop 
street-level postal crime. I provided the Subcommittee with 
that data showing sharp declines in mail theft and robberies 
whenever and wherever postal police are deployed.
    Now, contrast that to Project Safe Delivery, essentially a 
PR campaign long on talking points and short on deterrence. 
Hard and blue boxes and lengthy investigations do not stop 
criminals from prying open cluster box units, raiding postal 
delivery trucks, or sticking a gun in a carrier's face.
    Meanwhile, both the GAO and the OIG have reached the same 
conclusion. The Inspection Service has no method to determine 
staffing needs, no performance metrics, and no strategy for 
prevention. And instead of fixing it, the Inspection Service 
asked for more time, until 2026, to decide what to do while 
hoping Congress does not notice that the mail keeps getting 
stolen.
    But the solution already exists: the postal police force. 
Specifically, H.R. 2095, the Postal Police Reform Act, a 
bipartisan bill that restores postal police authority to patrol 
high-risk areas beyond postal property where postal police 
officers (PPO)s are needed most.
    This no-cost legislation is endorsed by the National 
Association of Police Organizations, the Fraternal Order of 
Police, and the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. 
But instead of reinvesting in uniformed deterrence, the 
Inspection Service is quietly dismantling it through attrition 
and chronic under hiring to pay for investigative functions 
that often duplicate the efforts of the Federal Bureau of 
Investigation (FBI), Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and 
others.
    If the Inspection Service truly wants to save money, it 
should cut unnecessary inspector investigations, not highly 
effective police patrols. But it will not because the decisions 
are being made by postal inspectors for postal inspectors.
    Since 2016, the postal police force has been decimated by 
over 33 percent. Today, PPOs are being quietly phased out. And 
yet, the number of postal inspectors remains fixed at about 
1,300. For every inspector hired, the Postal Service could have 
hired two PPOs at less cost. Still, the Inspection Service 
insists that this is a job for postal inspectors.
    But here is what the Department of Justice told the Ninth 
Circuit. The overwhelming majority of postal inspectors' time 
is spent working at a desk or in an office setting. That is the 
DOJ. Not patrolling, not intervening, and often claiming credit 
for arrests made by local police, padding performance metrics 
without ever leaving their cubicles. That is not law 
enforcement. That is bureaucracy.
    We know what works. Uniformed deterrence, geographic 
targeting, and data-driven patrols. Not drawn-out, costly 
investigations that rarely lead to arrests or convictions.
    PPOs are already trained, already deployed to the highest 
risk zip codes and already on the payroll, but banned by policy 
from stepping off postal property. That is not law enforcement. 
That is policy failure.
    Thank you, and I welcome your questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Albergo, thank you very much.
    Chief Holloway, welcome. The gentleman is recognized.

         STATEMENT OF ANTHONY HOLLOWAY, CHIEF OF POLICE

           ST. PETERSBURG, FLORIDA POLICE DEPARTMENT

    Mr. Holloway. Thank you, sir.
    Chairman Sessions, Ranking Member Mfume, Members of the 
Committee, my name is Anthony Holloway. I am the Chief of 
Police with the St. Petersburg Police Department with over 39 
years of law enforcement experience; ten years as the police 
chief with the St. Petersburg Police Department; prior to that, 
Clearwater and Somerville, Massachusetts.
    The city of St. Petersburg is the fifth largest city in 
Florida, with a population of over 266,000. The St. Petersburg 
Police Department has sustained a two-decade collaboration with 
United States Postal Inspection Services, initially through our 
canine task force embedded in the drug interdiction unit.
    In July 2023, this partnership expanded when United States 
Postal Inspection Service, Tampa Division, invited the St. 
Petersburg Police Department to join its newly formed financial 
crime task force to combat the surge in check fraud linked to 
stolen mail.
    Detective Daniel Nettleton was selected on August 23 to 
join this task force as a task force officer to initiate--to 
initial upon the completion of United States Postal Inspection 
Service task officer training program on February 20, 2024, 
assuming full-time ability to investigate crime.
    The detective was assigned to investigate check fraud 
investigations stemming from intercepted United States postal 
mail, as well as theft from postal bicycles, vehicles, and 
facilities within the city limits of St. Petersburg and any 
Federal crime across the Tampa Bay area.
    In June 2024, his work led to arrests of two separate 
suspects, one who is facing pending Federal charges, and this 
enforcement activity corresponds with the nearly decrease of 50 
percent reduction in reported check fraud crime to the city of 
St. Petersburg Police Department.
    In June 2023 through June 2024, we had 256 cases. In June 
2024 through June 2025, we only had 134 cases. In late 2024, 
the detective spearheaded an investigation into the alleged 
election mail theft, an inquiry that elevated to the DOJ Public 
Integrity Unit in Washington, D.C. Federal prosecutors resulted 
in additional arrests and pending Federal charges.
    With this task officer assigned to this task force, it has 
taken down the barriers where it allows the officers to work 
outside the jurisdiction of St. Petersburg, Florida, where the 
mail is stolen in the city of St. Petersburg, and then the 
suspect then goes to either another city or another county and 
then commits the fraud.
    Prior to this task force, the officers could only take a 
report number, and we could not investigate those crimes. Now, 
due to joining this task force, these officers can continue to 
investigate these crimes being closer not only to the 
residents, but also to the business owners into the city of St. 
Petersburg and also allowing these suspects know that we will 
follow them no matter where they enter.
    Our main job in the city of St. Petersburg is to make sure 
not only our citizens are safe, but also anyone that works, 
play, and visit in our city.
    For the detective's outstanding work, he received a letter 
of commendation from Tom Sylvester, issuing a commendation on 
November 24, praising his experience and his valuable role 
working for the Tampa financial crimes task force.
    I want to thank you very much for allowing me here to speak 
today, and I will answer any questions.
    Mr. Sessions. Chief, thank you very much.
    I will first go to the distinguished gentleman, Mr. Mfume, 
for any questions in his 5 minutes. The gentleman is 
recognized.
    Mr. Mfume. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Without 
objection, I am going to yield out of order to Mr. Frost, thank 
him also for developing the opening statement, and yield back 
to you right now.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The U.S. Postal Service investigation service has 
reportedly joined an investigative task force to help the 
President, Stephen Miller, and Kristi Noem's Department of 
Homeland Security carry out mass deportation efforts against 
immigrants.
    In April, United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) 
officers reportedly participated in an immigration raid where 
more than 100 immigrants were detained in a Colorado nightclub. 
Only two of the people arrested had outstanding warrants.
    I strongly believe that the Postal Service should not 
divert USPIS officers to partner with the Administration on 
this work that they are doing. My Democratic colleagues and I 
on this Committee recently sent a letter to both the Postal 
Service and USPIS demanding transparency on the reported 
coordination with DHS as it targets people for detention and 
deportation. We have not held back--heard back. So, hoping to 
have some questions answered here.
    Inspector Donahue, how often does the Inspection Service 
cooperate with DHS on investigations involving immigration 
enforcement?
    Mr. Donahue. So, thank you for the question. First, let me 
clarify.
    The Postal Inspection Service does not have immigration 
enforcement authority, and we do not conduct immigration 
investigations. And I just want to make that very clear.
    Mr. Frost. You do not conduct investigations, but do you at 
some points divert personnel to help with some of that 
operation?
    Mr. Donahue. We do not divert personnel. Any participation 
in any sort of enforcement operation, such as the one that you 
noted in April, that would be related to a postal crime.
    So, while there may be an immigration operation, our 
participation, again, related to a postal crime. So, for 
example, somebody mailing drugs, fentanyl through the mail, 
somebody committing identity theft, somebody engaging in money 
laundering. That would be the extent of our presence at one of 
those operations.
    Mr. Frost. Are you familiar with that exact situation? What 
was the postal crime associated that warranted the officers 
being there?
    Mr. Donahue. I believe in that specific circumstance, it 
was a narcotics-related matter.
    Mr. Frost. Are there standing meetings between leadership 
at USPIS and DHS regarding immigration enforcement?
    Mr. Donahue. So, I am not familiar with any meetings 
between leadership and DHS on immigration enforcement. We 
certainly have met with DHS and FBI and other counterparts 
relative to the homeland security task forces, but we regularly 
participate in those types of task forces, again, specific to 
postal-related crime.
    So, those involving the sending of drugs through the mail, 
the money laundering, those targeting cartels, those engaged in 
human trafficking where the mail may be used to facilitate 
that, again, such as with money laundering.
    That would be our extent of participation in those task 
forces; again, not related to immigration enforcement.
    Mr. Frost. How many USPIS personnel have been assigned to 
such cases thus far?
    Mr. Donahue. Can you provide some clarity to me when you 
say----
    Mr. Frost. Cases that--cases where DHS is involved because 
there is an immigration matter, but there is also some sort of 
postal issue going on as well.
    Mr. Donahue. So, I am not sure at this time. But my team 
behind me can take that question back, and we will provide a 
written response.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you. Are there any ongoing agreements that 
oblige y'all to cooperate with any of this?
    Mr. Donahue. I am not aware of any agreements that are in 
place that would oblige us to cooperate if you are speaking 
relative to any sort of immigration matter.
    Mr. Frost. What happens to inspectors' regular work of 
combating mail crime if they are assigned to cases that have to 
do with immigration enforcement?
    Mr. Donahue. So, I am not aware of us, again, working any 
of those cases. We do not have immigration enforcement 
authority. We do not conduct immigration investigations.
    Our investigations, again, are focused on those postal 
crimes. That is where our expertise is, and I expect that is 
where it will continue to be long into the future.
    Mr. Frost. We have seen reports of DHS and Immigration and 
Customs Enforcement (ICE). But they have reportedly broken the 
law; violated constitutional rights of citizens, noncitizens; 
detained veterans; different things like this.
    As it relates to cases where USPIS officers are engaged 
with DHS, is there any kind of guidance that you all are giving 
your inspectors when it comes to working with DHS?
    Mr. Donahue. So, our guidance would be our existing 
policies that we follow, that the Postal Inspection Service has 
that guides the work that we do, in addition to following the 
law and the Constitution, and what we do every single day with 
investigations that we conduct regardless of who those 
investigations are, whether the Federal, state, or local level.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you so much. I look forward to response on 
some of the numbers we spoke about.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. Gentleman yields back his time. Distinguished 
gentleman, the young Chairman, Mr. Palmer.
    Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have seen a spike 
in mail theft and postal-related crime.
    Is there a particular reason why we are seeing that, Mr. 
Donahue?
    Mr. Donahue. I believe so. There are a number of reasons. 
First, as I referred to in my oral testimony, then also my 
written testimony, we have seen a shift from criminal activity 
from what would be considered high-risk, high-reward crimes, 
such as drug trafficking, to those organizations engaging in 
low-risk, high-reward financial crimes. And that is really what 
motivates individuals to commit mail theft.
    They are seeking to steal the mail to perpetrate financial 
crimes that has driven activity, also online forums and 
marketplaces where--whether it is stolen checks, postal keys 
can be easily sold, and also the use of encrypted messaging 
that makes it more difficult for law enforcement to be able to 
intercept those communications and to be able to conduct its 
investigations.
    All of those things, I believe, have helped to add to this 
atmosphere where criminals believe it is permissive to commit 
these crimes, and I think also there is a significant issue 
when it comes to deterrence and being able to deter these.
    Again, in my oral written testimony, I spoke to some of the 
prosecutorial challenges we have, but then also some of the 
challenges that we have with sentencing.
    Mr. Palmer. Well, let me ask you.
    Mr. Donahue. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Palmer. I want to go a little bit deeper into this, a 
little different direction.
    So, based on your answer there, are they seeking to get 
personal identification information from the mail, and if they 
are doing that, are they transferring that, selling that 
information to international organizations? I mean, is that 
where we are seeing the uptick?
    Mr. Donahue. So, I believe the uptick is what I mentioned 
before, specific to the theft of financial instruments. But 
certainly, we see the theft of mail to perpetrate identity 
theft, the theft of personal identifying information.
    Mr. Palmer. You see international groups involved in that?
    Mr. Donahue. We certainly do see international groups in a 
lot of investigations that we conduct, both involving mail 
theft, financial crimes, and others.
    Mr. Palmer. We saw during the COVID pandemic an enormous 
amount of theft in regard to unemployment bonus compensation 
and other compensation, and a lot of that was perpetrated by 
international groups. Some of it was perpetrated within the 
United States by different groups, and they were using the 
mail, for instance, where states sent out debit cards.
    Is that part of--have we seen--has that continued going 
forward, that type criminal activity? Anyone can answer.
    Mr. Donahue. So, we certainly have seen, as you noted, 
during the pandemic where criminal organizations, both 
domestically and overseas, perpetrated mass pandemic fraud, 
taking advantage of the large amount of money that was made 
available, and also some of the looser restrictions on 
obtaining those funds.
    And then in some cases stealing checks or prepaid debit 
cards or other payment mechanisms that were in the mail to 
perpetrate these crimes.
    Mr. Palmer. Where do most of these crimes occur? Do they 
occur at the individual's post office box at the street or--I 
think theft at collection boxes has gone down quite a bit.
    Are they interdicting the postal delivery officer en route? 
Where do most of the thefts occur?
    Mr. Donahue. So, if it involves the Postal Service in terms 
of that financial crime, the theft of PII, personal identifying 
information, or financial instrument, that can occur anywhere 
along the process in which mail is being sent or received.
    And so, in some cases that is at the street level, and when 
it is at the collection box. In some cases, it is when it is at 
a person's mailbox at their house that is unsecured. In other 
cases, unfortunately, there are a very small number of 
individuals that work for the Postal Service who commit crime 
and take advantage of their position and steal mail from there, 
which Mr. Rothstein spoke to earlier.
    So, we see it all along the process where there is 
potential for theft.
    Mr. Palmer. What should people be doing to secure their 
personal identification information against mail theft?
    Mr. Donahue. So, there are a number of things that 
individuals can do to secure their personal identifying 
information against mail theft. First, suggest that 
individuals, when they receive their mail, that they pick it up 
as soon as possible when it is delivered to their mailbox.
    We encourage customers to sign up for Informed Delivery. 
That gives them a preview of mail that is coming to their house 
so they can identify what mail is going to come to their house, 
and they can be on the lookout for it and get it.
    We also encourage individuals, if they are going to send 
mail, to mail in the most secure way possible; they can bring 
it into the post office; they can hand it to their letter 
carrier who will take it from them; or if they work at a place 
of business, they can have it picked up there.
    Those are just some of the tips that we provide to the 
public on how to safely and securely send their mail.
    Mr. Palmer. With your permission, Mr. Chairman, one last 
question.
    Do you provide that information online, or how would you 
get that information to the customers of the U.S. Postal 
Office?
    Mr. Donahue. Thank you. So, we do provide it a number of 
ways. In some cases online, in some cases the prevention 
material that I showed before that we worked on with the 
American Bankers Association, which is made available through 
them and all the other financial institutions.
    In some cases, we share it with the public through 
community forums, through presentations, in some cases, coming 
on to Members of the House and their town halls that they have 
with their constituents where we are more than happy to 
participate and share that information.
    Social media.
    Again, there are a number of ways that we share that 
information.
    Mr. Palmer. Thank you. I thank the witnesses, thank the 
Chairman for his indulgence, and I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. Gentleman yields back his time.
    The gentlewoman, Ms. Norton, is recognized.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Postal Service has a mandate to provide efficient and 
reliable mail service to every address in America. That mandate 
requires the security of the mail and the people who deliver 
it.
    Unfortunately, crime committed through or against the U.S. 
mail system remains high. The Postal Service must maintain 
strong prevention and enforcement activities to stop this 
crime. Historically, postal police officers defended employees, 
customers, and property against the clock seven days a week, 
wherever there was email.
    But in 2020, the Postal Service issued a determination that 
post officers limit their role in postal facilities. Today, the 
Postal Service employs 450 postal police officers that guard 
postal facilities across the country.
    Mr. Albergo, what examples of crimes can postal police 
officers not assist with under this current policy?
    Mr. Albergo. So, under current policy, if a postal police 
officer is traveling from one post office to another, and we 
witness mail theft in progress, if we witness a letter carrier 
being attacked, we are told to stand down, we are told to call 
911.
    In New York, we are prohibited from responding. We cannot 
respond. They do not want us to respond.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you. The Government Accountability Office 
issued a report in 2024 that found that the Postal Inspection 
Service improperly documented, and here I quote, ``the 
processes for determining how many law enforcement workers it 
needs across its divisions to respond to serious crime.''
    It is surprising that the Postal Service lacks this 
critical data to inform the strategic personnel and security 
procedures.
    Mr. Donahue, has the Postal Service prepared a cross-
current review of its inspector workforce and security 
assessment? If so, can you provide this information to the 
Committee as soon as it is complete?
    Mr. Donahue. So, thank you for that question. In regards to 
the workforce assessment that you spoke of, that is underway 
now, and I expect that it will be completed by September 1. And 
we will make sure that, once that is complete and available to 
share, that that is shared with you.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you. I hope the new Postmaster General 
will reverse the Postal Service's decision to limit postal 
police officers' jurisdiction. If not, Congress should.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    Ms. Randall, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Randall. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    You know, Americans in all of our districts rely on the 
Postal Service to ensure the safe and efficient delivery of 
sensitive information, personal letters, cards, financial 
documents, medicines, ballots. And regardless of where 
Americans might live, the Postal Service, as we all know, has a 
legal and universal obligation to, quote, ``provide prompt, 
reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and 
shall render postal services to all communities.''
    Unfortunately for Americans living in rural parts of the 
country, like Queets, and Elma and Quilcene and the Key 
Peninsula in my district, this is a far cry from their lived 
reality, partly due to postal-related crime.
    Despite the recent collaborative efforts from the Postal 
Service and Postal Inspection Services to combat rampant mail 
theft and crimes targeting letter carriers, postal-related 
crimes continue to disproportionately impact local, rural 
communities in my home state.
    In Washington, mail theft has spiked, and more letter 
carriers are being attacked on the job. Since last December, 
West Seattle has reported multiple cases of mail stolen 
directly from delivery trucks. In Spanaway, a carrier was 
robbed at gunpoint for his arrow key, which, as you know, is 
the universal key that unlocks mailboxes and cluster mailboxes.
    Inspector Donahue and Mr. Rothstein, what are your 
respective agencies doing to address the violent attacks on 
carriers in communities like mine and across the country?
    Mr. Donahue. So, first, in regards to your community and 
every state, the Postal Inspection Service has postal 
inspectors located across the country in nearly every state, 
and also in our territories. And we utilize those personnel to 
respond to attacks on employees to investigate those cases and 
to bring those responsible for it to justice, and especially 
when there is an attack, we prioritize those cases and ensure 
that they are thoroughly investigated.
    In regard to other steps that we have taken, prevention 
being one of them, and there are a number of ways that we have 
done that. Raising awareness amongst postal employees about 
steps that they can take to protect themselves, raising 
awareness amongst the public about steps that they can protect 
their mail, which may lessen the chances of an attack on an 
employee depending upon the motive.
    In addition to that, we have helped secure our network by 
investing and making improvements to infrastructure that we 
have. I spoke about the additional e-locks that we are 
installing earlier in my testimony, and then also our high-
security collection boxes and really trying to devalue that 
arrow key so it is not an attractive target for a criminal in 
order to steal that.
    Another way that we have done it, is partnering with local 
and state law enforcement agencies to add task force officers 
to serve as a force multiplier. You know, some of the biggest 
challenges that we have with prosecution are in some cases with 
juveniles. I think, as you know, there is no Federal juvenile 
system, but yet we see juveniles recruited to help perpetrate 
these crimes. And in some cases, they are committing these 
violent acts, but the Federal system is not appropriate for 
them.
    And so, our partnership with local, state law enforcement 
agencies allows us to leverage the power of their state 
authority or local authority that they have to bring charges 
there. And those are just some of the steps that we have taken.
    And I will note we are looking to add additional task force 
officers, both on financial crimes and our violent crime task 
force officers, but those that investigate other crimes. And 
certainly, that is available in Washington State and in other 
states represented by the Members here.
    Ms. Randall. Mr. Rothstein, do you have anything to add?
    Mr. Rothstein. Yes. I would like to state that, again, the 
primary responsibility for investigating violent crime against 
mail carriers does lie with the Inspection Service, but we do, 
at the OIG, work violent crime cases.
    Quite frankly, I get an incident report every time that 
there is violence done within a mail facility or done to one of 
our carriers, and it gets to my desk, and I hear about it that 
morning when that happens.
    And although it is not a primary responsibility, our 
special agents work hand in hand with postal inspectors, just 
like they do with us during our cases. And especially if it is 
a violent case where we are asked for assistance, our special 
agents will roll out there, do surveillance, help work with the 
arrest scene.
    And if I ever hear that our agents decline an offer to 
assist with that, I will make corrective action in that, 
because that is simply not the way that we roll. And it is 
simply not the partnership that we want to have.
    Even though we do have oversight of the Inspection Service, 
we know that in investigating these cases, especially when 
dealing with public safety or the safety of postal employees, 
we are going to be working those cases arm in arm.
    Ms. Randall. Thank you so much.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
    The gentleman, Mr. Mfume, the Ranking Member, my dear 
friend, you are recognized.
    Mr. Mfume. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to 
thank you for the working partnership that we have had on this 
Committee and the bipartisan manner in which we have tried to 
deal with a number of different things, not the least of which 
is our love and respect for the Postal Service and the men and 
women that make it work day in and day out.
    I cannot underscore enough how I appreciate the testimony 
and the work of all of you who have come before us today. Each 
one of these sessions becomes a learning tool for those of us 
who sit on this Committee, because we do not see everything 
from every angle. So, your perspective on all these things 
alone is very, very important.
    I think that without a doubt we are all still astonished by 
more than a quarter of a million complaints of mail and mail 
volume receptacle theft that we continue to hear about and read 
about.
    The Postal Service, as has been said, and as we all know, 
has a constitutional mandate. It is, in fact, a lifeline for 
millions and millions of Americans, particularly in rural 
communities and those people who cannot fight and stand up for 
themselves, but who rely day in and day out on a basic service 
that has been so much part and parcel of the fabric of our 
Nation, going all the way back to Benjamin Franklin.
    And so, it is crucial that the Post Office, in my opinion, 
has the resources to carry out their mission and to realize 
also that in many respects this is about data, but it is more 
than data.
    It is also about human beings who are on the other side of 
the equation. We refer to them as letter carriers. And they 
work day in and day out to make sure that the service that we 
have come to take for granted is still there.
    What we find challenging is the rate of devilish 
interception and the rate of interception that comes from 
thieves, and this criminal mindset that if you put up two 
fences, we want to find a way to scale a third one.
    It is trying to get in front of those persons and getting 
in front of that criminal mind that is a real challenge, not 
just in this matter but in all matters.
    So, the more you can work to do that, I think it is clear 
that the more it is appreciated by a lot of us.
    And I have listened. And this whole issue of Project Safe 
Delivery, I do not want to undercount it. I think it is 
important. The progress that is being made there is important. 
I commend the inspector generals. Your work is a tough job day 
in and day out.
    But we have got to find a way, I think, Mr. Chairman, to 
make sure that as we use cutting-edge technology, and as we 
work to improve data analysis so that we can reduce, if not to 
some extent try to eliminate much of this problem, is 
important.
    I cannot help but to go back again to letter carriers and 
what they are faced with in the street. In my own district in 
Baltimore, we continue to get reports of assaults and attempted 
assaults on letter carriers.
    I sometimes will get out of my car and talk with one or two 
of them just for them to feel comfortable enough to give me a 
straightforward feel of what they see every day, what they feel 
in their heart, what their ideas are on how we can find a way 
to get a handle on this, and it is an amazing kind of 
testimony.
    So, when we here on this Committee try to deal with this 
issue openly and objectively in a nonpartisan way, we really 
have to be open to every suggestion--suggestions on the data 
side, suggests on the human side--that hopefully will move us 
forward.
    Mail fraud and all that it has brought about is disturbing. 
I cannot begin to tell you that. I listened to the gentlewoman 
from North Carolina talk about what her experience was back in 
the 1960s.
    So, many people have positive experiences with the Postal 
Service. The Postal Service's rating among Americans has been 
high for such a long time, and it is because the Postal Service 
is a part of the family. That is how people look at things.
    So, when I, Mr. Albergo, listen to your testimony, I am 
reminded of that testimony I heard from you and from many of 
your men.
    In fact, a year ago, or two years ago, they presented me 
with their badge. They said, ``Take this, put it in your desk, 
do not ever forget that the Postal Police are out here and that 
we are out here to service you and to service the country.''
    I just think we have got to create, Mr. Chairman, a way to 
give the police clear lines of demarcation so we will know what 
they can do, what they cannot do, and what we expect them to 
do, and how we are going to support them.
    So, I would ask all of you what is the number one thing we 
could do. I am sure that is to provide necessary resources.
    But above and beyond that, I just want to thank you all for 
your service. I want to pledge the commitment of this side of 
the aisle as the Chairman and I work together on these issues 
to try to move a Congress, which is really stratified these 
days and dug in on different sides of the fence.
    We try to find that sliver in the middle where most people 
are, which is where you are governed from, not the far left or 
the far right, but the middle. And people expect us to be able, 
in that middle, to move along in such a way that we create 
progress.
    So, I am sure this is not going to be the last time that we 
see some of you before the Committee. I would strongly urge, 
outside of your written testimony, if there are new things that 
develop over the course of the next couple of months, that you 
transmit them to the Chairman and myself so that we can also 
take those into consideration; and where there needs to be 
clarity on news reports sometimes that are a little ambitious, 
to say the least, that you provide us with what the actual 
facts were and are.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I would yield back the balance 
of my time. Thank you, again. It has been a good working 
partnership. And I yield.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Mfume, thank you very much. The chance to 
hear your comments about the workability of this Subcommittee, 
I hope, is important to anyone who is listening, because when 
we do work together, I think we achieve so much more.
    I would ask unanimous consent that a statement provided by 
the National Association of Postal Supervisors be entered into 
the record, by Mr. Chuck Mulidore, who is in attendance today 
with Mr. Levi.
    And I welcome both of you.
    Without objection, that will be entered into the record.
    Mr. Mfume. Good to see both of you again.
    Mr. Sessions. It is good.
    Chief Holloway, you have heard Mr. Mfume give strong 
credence and support to postal workers, postal employees, that 
also include their law enforcement, and the men and women who 
take an obligation to deliver our mail fairly, quickly, 
properly.
    And I think it is the reason why you were included on here, 
or at least the reason why I included you, was we also count on 
our local partners. And you represent, by being a chief in 
Florida of a large department, you recognize that we just do 
not have enough Postal police officers, inspector generals, and 
those postal inspectors to be looking out everywhere, every 
time.
    Talk to us about a reasonableness issue related to the way 
you see it, about your officers, your command, your use of your 
force in support of crimes that may be committed against 
people, including the United States Postal Service.
    Chief Holloway. Thank you very much, Chairman, for that 
question.
    Mr. Sessions. Yes. I am sorry, sir. Is your microphone on?
    Chief Holloway. It is, sir.
    Mr. Sessions. Okay. I need to turn my hearing aid up. I do 
not have one, but I will pay attention here. Thank you, sir.
    Chief Holloway. Thank you, again, sir, and thank you for 
the question.
    In the city of St. Petersburg, we have over 602 officers, 
and our partnership with the United States Postal Inspection 
Service works quite well because it gives us that added tool 
that we need to help enforce the crime that is in our 
community.
    Again, as I said in my earlier statement, it breaks down 
some of the walls to give the investigators the ability to go 
throughout the county and throughout the state to follow these 
criminals no matter where they are.
    Our main primary goal is to make sure that the citizens in 
the city of St. Petersburg are safe at all times, and the 
people that work there, our mail carriers. So, when there is an 
issue, that we want to be working hand in hand with the 
inspectional services to make sure that we can address that.
    I can tell you--I only can speak for the Tampa Bay region--
that when something does happen, that the inspectors and the 
local law enforcement officers are working hand in hand 
together to figure out how we are going to, one, make sure that 
the mail person is safe, and also make sure the community is 
safe.
    The biggest thing that we see early, again, like I said 
earlier, is that the victims, when their checks or when their 
credit cards are stolen from them, there was no followup, 
because it happens in one jurisdiction, and the suspect will go 
to another jurisdiction, and those two local law enforcement 
agencies are only going to handle the crime that occurred in 
their city.
    Whereas working with our Federal partners, it allows us the 
opportunity to go across those barriers, so we can bring not 
only those suspects into custody, but also to bring these 
victims what they need, closure, because even though the money 
is put back into their accounts, they are still a victim of 
identity theft, and they still have to live through that.
    So, that is our job, is to make sure that we continue to 
bring closure to those victims and also to make sure we get 
these suspects in custody.
    Mr. Sessions. Very nice. So you are stretched also for your 
resources?
    Chief Holloway. I am very fortunate, Chair, that my mayor, 
my city council, whatever we need, we are able to get those 
resources available to us. Again, I only can speak for my city 
and my law enforcement.
    Could we use more law enforcement officers out there? Of 
course we can. But at the same time, when we have an issue, we 
have the right resources that we can bring to those issues that 
are needed.
    Mr. Sessions. So, I heard you say, without you saying it, 
that you believe that if there is a crime perpetrated against 
someone, some sort of a mail crime, that you would, in fact, go 
and initiate, write a report.
    And then, do you then refer that, generally speaking, to 
the postal inspectors? Or what is your process? Or do you even 
know what that might be?
    Chief Holloway. No, sir. Because we have an officer, a 
detective, assigned now to the Postal Inspection Service, so we 
have a task force officer, so he is available now, and he can 
investigate those crimes, where before we were part of the task 
force, it would just sit there. It would just be a report 
number waiting for someone to look at it.
    Now, with us joining the task force 18 months ago, we are 
now actively working these cases each and every day. So, when a 
case is reported to the St. Petersburg Police Department, we 
actively look into it, and we use our partners at the Post 
Office to make sure we can continue these investigations.
    Mr. Sessions. Without putting words into your mouth, 
because you have this association that is a strong working 
relationship, is there, generally speaking, a time of the year 
that you believe your officers would be reminded and there 
would be at a higher level of understanding to be looking for 
mail crimes, postal crimes to occur, to where, because you do 
have that relationship, it helps your officers to spot and 
solve these matters?
    Chief Holloway. It does by that detective assigned to the 
task force. When he sees something, he can report it back to 
our intelligence unit, and we can put a BOLO out so those zone 
officers, or even our surveillance team, will know where to go, 
so they can provide protection for those mail carriers when we 
see an issue that we need to address, or that we get 
information that we are looking for a certain suspect, that we 
can also be able to follow those suspects and make sure there 
is no harm caused to our mail carriers in the city of St. 
Petersburg.
    Mr. Sessions. It is refreshing for me to hear that you care 
about them as you do any other citizen, and thank you very 
much.
    Mr. Rothstein or Mr. Donahue, do you have an understanding 
about maybe the success that might be turned about--and I am 
going to use the wrong term, but there was a term, maybe 
``notice of delivery,'' I have had that in my mail, or where 
they notify you of the delivery. Do you perceive that you could 
use that as a tool where you know you had certain post offices 
or where you had certain areas where there were checks that 
came in or an abundance of something to where you would then 
notify--it is easier to find, I assume also, a piece of mail 
that has been, I will call it, tagged, a notice of delivery.
    Does that help you in your investigative duties 
proactively? Or can you discuss that viewpoint that I think I 
have had about maybe this is an important way to help you solve 
crimes?
    Mr. Rothstein. Yes, Chairman. I believe that IIC Donahue 
talked about the Informed Delivery system. And, again, it is 
one way that any postal customer can sign up for the Postal 
Service's Informed Delivery system, that will give them an 
email, to their email of choice, of the letters and now even 
packages that are slated to be delivered to that address.
    So, that customer, that postal customer who is expecting a 
credit card or expecting a check, will have an actual image of 
that envelope and that mail that is supposed to be delivered 
for them.
    And, again, this goes into being a good consumer. If you do 
not receive it, you are given notice that, well, sometimes 
delays happen. Give it a couple days. If you do not receive it 
within three days, I always say, give the OIG a call.
    Because, again, if it was on the mailman's part, that is 
primarily our responsibility, to investigate the internal 
employees if they are involved. Go to our hotline, file a 
complaint, give our OIG a call.
    And we do use data for that. I know that the Ranking Member 
talked about data and the difference. Yes, there is a 
difference between victims of violent crime, as well as looking 
at the data.
    But the data does enlighten and give our agents insight 
into what is happening. If you are familiar with military 
threat attack doctrine or cybercrime, there is a term called 
``zero day,'' and that is the time of realization of that 
vulnerability when it is either a cyber-attack or a military 
attack.
    The zero day when it comes down to financial crime is the 
realization that your accounts have been compromised--a check 
has been stolen, someone has withdrawn amounts or charged to 
your credit card, or created another credit card in your name. 
That happens, unfortunately, so much later because sometimes 
consumers are either not very, again, vigilant in checking 
their credit card statements and check statements, or they are 
just simply unaware fraud has happened.
    What the data has done, especially with this data-sharing 
partnership that we have with the Treasury Department and more 
than a dozen banks in the United States, is that we get this 
data, and we are informed about credit cards and checks that 
are not delivered in the requisite amount of time.
    It allows us sometimes to act even before that fraud is 
committed or that check is converted or stolen on the, again, 
encrypted messaging apps. And that is a huge tool in reducing 
the cost to consumers, huge in reducing the cost to financial 
institutions.
    And it gives us a leg up because now we know what financial 
instrument has been compromised. And we could look through the, 
again, the platforms that we know are being used for illicit 
sales and resales of these stolen items that were stolen from 
the mail. And so, it gives law enforcement a leg up.
    And so, when you talk about successes, again, it is one 
thing to talk about how this is effective. I would not 
necessarily call it successes right now because we are seeing, 
again, similar actions like this that we do not have the 
resources to respond to from last year and projected this year 
alone.
    We use data and all these data sources to examine what are 
the potentially similar or different types of cases that we do 
not have the resources to open, and, unfortunately, that number 
is over 100,000 different cases. And, quite frankly, with 450 
agents, we are limited in what actions we do take.
    And so, it makes us more effective, but we are far from, I 
think, seeing the success that the American public really 
deserves in having their financial instruments, their hard-
earned money secured.
    Mr. Sessions. I think that what you have said is not just a 
positive attribute of the system but shows its flexibility with 
the ability to proactively contact customers to let them know, 
offer services, and do those things.
    One of the things which I regularly try and do is I try and 
give tips or feedback to people, whether it be about Medicare, 
Medicaid, Social Security. I really need to include something 
about this Informed Delivery.
    And while I have been a part of it in the past, I did not 
know how I got it. It showed up. I became aware of it. I think 
it was a positive thing.
    But I definitely think that someone that is looking for 
something that has been talked about, by not just Mr. Frost, 
not just Virginia Foxx, not just Ms. Randall, but valuables--
valuables--that I am looking for something as opposed to 
something showing up.
    I think that that would be a hot tip that I would be 
pleased to notify my people.
    Last, the issue of cluster boxes, cluster boxes have 
created within the congressional district that I represent in 
largely new areas, large areas where maybe a new homeowners 
association was formed or a new housing project came in.
    Does anybody have any advice about something that they have 
learned about how to better secure them, data and information 
that might be a tip to a consumer? Any one of you.
    Mr. Donahue. So, in regard to cluster boxes and securing 
them, I think one of the most important things that somebody 
who is a resident of a neighborhood that has a cluster box, if 
there is damage to it, either if it is due to purposeful damage 
or if it is inadvertent damage, that they report that, so that 
that can be repaired.
    I see so often there were cluster box units, and even in 
apartment buildings, those apartment mailbox panels, they 
become damaged, and then they become potential targets for 
theft and go unreported.
    And to the extent that it can be shared with the public, to 
report those instances when it is damaged, to do so. And that 
also affords us in the Postal Service the ability to determine 
whether or not potentially that cluster box unit was broken 
into and if it was purposeful, or if there was some other 
reason for it.
    And so, it also affords us the opportunity to work with the 
homeowners association to get it repaired.
    Mr. Sessions. Good.
    Mr. Mfume, I would offer, if you have any other questions. 
I, while being here, I have found this most instructive. It is 
a question that you and I and probably every Member deals with 
one way or another. Sometimes frustration,
    Mr. Mfume. Yes.
    Mr. Sessions. Sometimes achievement. But I will tell you 
that one thing that you and I know, and that is the men and 
women, by and large, vastly across this Service, are devoted to 
not only their job, but also think of themselves as being 
public servants also. And I think that that is a high standard 
that speaks volumes about each and every one of you.
    Chief, you would fit in there also, though not with the 
Postal Service, but in service.
    The gentleman is recognized.
    Mr. Mfume. Yes, let me followup on this matter of cluster 
boxes and arrow keys. It seems like it is all I have been 
talking about the last five years.
    Is it correct to assume that if I rob you and I am able to 
evade the Postal Police, and I go to a cluster box and take 
this universal key and put it in, it will open all of my access 
to all of the mailboxes? Is that correct? Is there a code that 
has to precede that?
    Mr. Renfroe. No. So, the arrow lock-and-key system that we 
have had for many years, that we still utilize today in most of 
the country, if you get your hands on that key, you can open 
anything, at minimum, within that ZIP Code, sometimes far, far 
beyond that--collection boxes, cluster boxes.
    It is one of the reasons that a very, very important piece 
of the solution is an effort that the Postal Service has 
already undertaken, and that is to replace them with an 
electronic alternative.
    We have done testing in the past. They are, as aggressively 
as they can, replacing them with an electronic alternative that 
does not have that same value.
    Mr. Mfume. And how many of these cluster boxes do you 
anticipate exist nationwide?
    Mr. Renfroe. Well, there are over nine million locks, which 
is--every one of those locks has got to be changed manually.
    And that is one of the important pieces of the bipartisan 
legislation that has been introduced in the House and the 
Senate, the Protect Our Letter Carriers Act, is that it will 
provide funding so that the Postal Service could speed up 
replacement of not just that entire key system, but also the 
high security collection boxes that Mr. Donahue was mentioning.
    Mr. Mfume. Right. And I understand. I mean, I am a 
cosponsor of the bill here in the House. I get it, trust me.
    I am just trying to figure out how in the hell did we get 
in a situation where we created an entry system for nine 
million, or how many millions there are out there of boxes 
where there are going to be valuables, checks, personal 
information, medicine, that people are waiting for? How did we 
get to that, do you know?
    Mr. Renfroe. I think many years ago, decades ago, that was 
the only alternative, and like many other things with the 
Postal Service that we have talked about in this very room, it 
has been starved of modernization. And, unfortunately, we are 
at a point where the modernization of this particular system 
being past due is harming people, frankly.
    Mr. Mfume. So, until we get to the point, through data and 
electronics and analytics, that we can replace or reduce that, 
is there no suggestion, no way around that?
    I mean, we cannot put a Postal Police officer at every 
cluster box. And so, we know that this rate of crime continues 
to go up.
    Are there suggestions that any of you have about what we 
can do in the interim, knowing where we are trying to go with 
this?
    In the interim, what can take place to reduce some of the 
pain and a great deal of the loss that is out there every day?
    Mr. Albergo. Well, when we know an arrow key is stolen and 
we know the same blue collection boxes are being hit over and 
over again, the same cluster boxes are being hit over and over 
again, and you have trained Postal Police officers, it might be 
a good idea to actually deploy those Postal Police officers to 
protect those boxes that are being infiltrated.
    Mr. Mfume. Well, Mr. Albergo, it seems to me that the 
previous Postmaster reduced the authority of Postal Police and 
on many occasions said that their jurisdiction was not 
applicable here, there, or somewhere else. And the Congress did 
not, in my opinion, do all it could to provide the resources.
    So, you are understaffed. You are in a situation where we 
have got a new Postmaster. There is previous precedent where 
the outgoing or long-gone Postmaster has said Postal Police 
should not go here, they should not go there, they should not 
do this, and we are going to provide less money.
    So, I guess, I do not want to tell you what your testimony 
is here, but I would like to know what you would suggest to 
this body before we conclude this hearing on how do we find a 
way to increase jurisdiction and at the same time increase the 
ability to bring on more.
    Mr. Albergo. Well, the enabling statute that gives Postal 
Police their authority is ambiguous. So, the Postal Service can 
interpret that statute any way they want.
    They made a policy choice to bench the Postal Police Force 
during a postal crime wave. I mean, it was misguided. They are 
saying--I mean, what are they supposed to say at this point? It 
was really stupid? I mean, that is not what they are going to 
say.
    So, they are looking for excuses when--and who is 
suffering? I mean, when they hardened those blue collection 
boxes, it just displaced the crime. It put a target on letter 
carriers' backs, and carriers started getting robbed.
    And while that was happening, the Inspection Service--it 
was not actually their choice. It was Postal legal that made 
the decision. They grounded the Postal Police. And not only did 
they ground us, when media asked why, they said: Well, Postal 
Police do not have any jurisdictional authority.
    And most people do not differentiate Postal Police from the 
Postal Inspection Service. So, the Postal Service was actually 
saying the Inspection Service--or this is what people were 
hearing--the Inspection Service does not have authority to 
arrest mail thieves. So, it was a criminal free-for-all.
    Mr. Mfume. Yes, yes. That it was, that it was.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Albergo.
    Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much.
    This now ends the hearing portion of this, and I would 
defer to Mr. Mfume if he would choose to give a closing 
statement, and then I plan to.
    Mr. Mfume. No, I really do not have much more to say. I 
think the witnesses can see my frustration. I can see their 
frustration. We all have different roles in trying to figure 
this out.
    And I think we all feel a great deal of empathy for victims 
across this country who are expecting medicine or valuables or 
checks in the mail, only to find out that they do not get them. 
And then, of course, the people who are delivering them are 
under threat of being robbed, shot, stabbed, or killed.
    Maybe we ought to conclude on my side with that, Mr. 
Chairman. I want to thank them again, and thank you, and 
certainly yield back for whatever statement you might have.
    Mr. Sessions. Mr. Mfume, thank you very much.
    I hope that the witnesses who are before us today recognize 
that as you drew questions from Members, there still is a wide 
variance of people who have comments about the Postal Service.
    It is my hope that you heard us say today that we have 
confidence in you, that we do know that the cost of the stamp 
and the cost of the Postal Service and the work that is being 
done, the day-to-day work that is done, not only by these 
letter carriers but mail people, is one that goes on and on and 
on. And they are expected to--and do--deliver, and many times 
in overtime and circumstances that are not beautiful.
    We have circumstances like the floods that we had in Texas 
where those rural letter carriers in most of the instances that 
I am thinking of now, but also others in the Service, where the 
Post Office bends over backward to accommodate communities and 
people and hold mail and try and do the extra work that it 
would mean to someone who might be in stress, someone who might 
be searching to find a loved one who perhaps they cannot find 
now or have not been found, would recognize the need that that 
family has to gain confidence of getting their mail.
    I could just go through a hundred circumstances that could 
happen--freezes, tornadoes, a crisis that families have--and 
the Post Office is embedded in much of those same types of 
circumstances. And when I deal with the Post Office, I find 
that they want to bend over backward to help people.
    So, on behalf of this Subcommittee, which has the 
jurisdiction for the Postal Service, I want you to know that 
Mr. Mfume and I have great confidence in what you have done 
today.
    You helped us to prepare ourselves as we think about the 
future and, perhaps more importantly, to know that Mr. Mfume 
and I appreciate and respect you and the people you represent 
in the Postal Service.
    I now will move to the end. With that, and without any 
objection, all Members have five legislative days within which 
to submit material and additional written questions for the 
witnesses, and they will be forwarded to the witnesses from the 
Subcommittee.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:38 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]