[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                     BREAKING CHINA'S CHOKE HOLD ON
                     CRITICAL MINERAL SUPPLY CHAINS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                                 OF THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIA AND PACIFIC

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             July 15, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-27

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]        

Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov, http://docs.house.gov, 
                       or http://www.govinfo.gov
                       
                               __________
                       
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
61-691PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
                       
                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                    BRIAN J. MAST, Florida, Chairman
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York, 
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey         Ranking Member
JOE WILSON, South Carolina           BRAD SHERMAN, California
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
DARRELL ISSA, California             WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee              AMI BERA, California
MARK E. GREEN, Tennessee             JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  DINA TITUS, Nevada
RONNY JACKSON, Texas                 TED LIEU, California
YOUNG KIM, California                SARA JACOBS, California
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida        SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, 
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan                  Florida
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       GREG STANTON, Arizona
    American Samoa                   JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                JONATHAN L. JACKSON, Illinois
JAMES R. BAIRD, Indiana              SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
THOMAS H. KEAN, JR, New Jersey       JIM COSTA, California
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             GABE AMO, Rhode Island
CORY MILLS, Florida                  KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
KEITH SELF, Texas                    PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana               GEORGE LATIMER, New York
JAMES C. MOYLAN, Guam                JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI Jr, Maryland
ANNA PAULINA LUNA, Florida           JULIE JOHNSON, Texas
JEFFERSON SHREVE, Indiana            SARAH McBRIDE, Delaware
SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina          BRADLEY SCOTT SCHNEIDER, Illinois
MICHAEL BAUMGARTNER, Washington      MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania

              James Langenderfer, Majority Staff Director
                 Sajit Gandhi, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON EAST ASIA AND PACIFIC

                    YOUNG KIM, California, Chairwoman
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             AMI BERA, California, Ranking 
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                      Member
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       BRAD SHERMAN, California
    American Samoa                   JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
JAMES MOYLAN, Guam                   GABE AMO, Rhode Island
SHERI BIGGS, South Carolina          JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI, Maryland
RYAN MACKENZIE, Pennsylvania

                 Tom Hill, Subcommittee Staff Director
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                            REPRESENTATIVES

                                                                   Page
Opening Statement of Chairwoman Young Kim........................     1
Opening Statement of Ranking Member Ami Bera.....................     2

                               WITNESSES

Statement of the Hon. Frank Fannon, Managing Director, Fannon 
  Global Advisors................................................     4
  Prepared Statement.............................................     6
Statement of the Hon. Joseph Manchin, Former U.S. Senator for 
  West Virginia..................................................    14
  Prepared Statement.............................................    16
Statement of the Hon. Jose W. Fernandez, Former Under Secretary 
  for Economic Growth, Energy and the Environment, U.S. 
  Department of State............................................    23
  Prepared Statement.............................................    26

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    58
Hearing Minutes..................................................    60
Hearing Attendance...............................................    61

                        Questions for the Record

Question submitted to Jose W. Fernandez from Rep. Gabe Amo.......    62

 
     BREAKING CHINA'S CHOKE HOLD ON CRITICAL MINERAL SUPPLY CHAINS

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, July 15, 2025

                  House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on East Asia and Pacific,
                              Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Young Kim (chair 
of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mrs. Kim. Representative Troy Downing be allowed to sit on 
this dais and participate in today's hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    The Committee on East Asia and the Pacific will come to 
order. This hearing aims to explore strategies for the United 
States to reduce global dependence on the People's Republic of 
China for critical minerals by partnering with the private 
sector and allied nations.
    Let me now recognize myself for an opening statement. I 
think we're still in morning so good morning and welcome to 
East Asia and the Pacific Subcommittee's hearing titled 
``Breaking China's Choke Hold on Critical Mineral Supply 
Chains.''

           OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG KIM

    I want to thank our witnesses for joining us this morning.
    Critical minerals--lithium, cobalt, rare earth elements, 
and others are the building blocks of modern technology 
powering electric vehicles, microchips and advanced defense 
systems.
    Global demand for these minerals is surging with lithium 
demand alone growing nearly 30 percent annually from 2021 to 
2024, driven by rising electric vehicle battery production.
    Yet, the People's Republic of China, or PRC, controls 92 
percent of global rare earth element processing and dominates 
the manufacturing of battery and magnet components.
    This choke hold, reinforced by China's tens of billions in 
global mining investments and tactics like price manipulation 
and export restrictions, poses a direct threat to the United 
States and our allies.
    While the U.S. possesses significant mineral resources, 
domestic production alone cannot meet the speed or scale of 
this demand. The U.S. manufacturing operation costs increased 
significant in the region, increasing the regional bureau. It 
will take decades to permit natural mining in America.
    Moreover, the Federal Government lacks the financial 
capacity to fully subsidize the level of investment needed to 
drive large-scale private sector investment--expansion of 
domestic production.
    Relying solely on domestic solutions is insufficient, 
therefore, so we need a bold global strategy to secure 
resilient, diversified supply chains free from Chinese control.
    The current geopolitical landscape offers an opportune 
window to act. The recent developments such as President 
Trump's critical minerals agreement with Ukraine and the U.S.-
facilitated peace deal in the Democratic Republic of Congo open 
new opportunities to access vital resources.
    We have also seen coordination like the recently announced 
Quad critical minerals initiative underscore the importance of 
critical minerals through broader regional engagement.
    As the administration renegotiates trade relationships, we 
can strengthen partnerships with our allies to build non-
Chinese supply, chains enhancing both economic and national 
security.
    So today's hearing we will explore these challenges and 
opportunities. We will examine how to build a proactive global 
strategy to establish supply chains free from Chinese 
dominance.
    So our goal today is very clear, to ensure the United 
States and its allies have secure, reliable access to the 
critical minerals that will define the future of technology and 
security.
    I look forward to a productive discussion, and now let me 
now recognize the ranking member from California, 
Representative Bera, for his opening statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER AMI BERA

    Mr. Bera. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and, obviously, this 
is an incredibly important hearing. Your testimony could be my 
testimony and that demonstrates the bipartisan nature of 
creating redundant supplies of critical minerals and rare earth 
elements, weaning ourselves off of the choke hold that China 
currently has where we watch them use their current export 
restrictions on rare earths in retaliation to some of the trade 
negotiations that President Trump is leading.
    We can't be dependent on that and, again, so with that I 
certainly thank you for this important hearing.
    Creating and building a diversified, resilient, secure, 
critical mineral supply chain is crucial to our national 
security.
    That's why landmark legislation like the Inflation 
Reduction Act in which Senator Manchin played a key role led to 
historic investments to support a domestic critical mineral 
supply chains and started to diversify us away from foreign 
entities of concern.
    Unfortunately, in the Big Beautiful Bill some of these 
demand incentives with regards to electric vehicles, battery 
manufacturing, et cetera, potentially are going to be 
undermined and that's something that, you know, certainly as we 
look at implementation of this bill I think we ought to 
continue to build those demand signals.
    Also, while domestic production of critical minerals is 
crucial for the United States' security we can't do it alone if 
we want to shift away from reliance with China.
    That's why our subcommittee is going to play an important 
role to make sure the State Department, the Development Finance 
Corporation, and other national security agencies have the 
tools they need to build resilient global supply chains.
    I have, in the prior administration, worked closely with 
the State Department, worked closely with Under Secretary 
Fernandez to build those strong international partnerships on 
supply chain resilience both bilaterally and through 
multilaterally initiatives including the Mineral Security 
Partnership.
    The MSP brings together 14 partner countries including 
Australia, India, Japan, South Korea, and the United Kingdom as 
well as the European Union to strengthen critical mineral 
supply chains.
    The MSP finance network convenes development finance 
institutions like the DFC and its equivalents in the MSP 
partner nations to leverage private sector investment for 
critical mineral projects, focusing on minerals that are most 
relevant for advanced technologies, defense, energy and 
industrial processes.
    It is a positive sign that our ally South Korea has now 
succeeded the United States as chair of the MSP. That said, we 
have got to continue to work with the State Department and 
continue its robust leadership in the MSP to ensure that MSP 
projects are meeting our national security goals.
    That's why today I have introduced the bipartisan Mineral 
Security Partnership Authorization Act with my colleague 
Chairwoman Kim and Representative Moylan to authorize the State 
Department to lead the U.S. participation in the MSP.
    As our committee works to pass bills including 
reauthorizations of the Development Finance Corporation and 
State Department, it is critical that we work in a bipartisan 
nature to ensure that we have a clear international strategy 
for securing a critical mineral supply chains.
    The MSP is central to the State Department's role in this 
strategy and I look forward to hearing our witnesses' 
suggestions on how we can strengthen the MSP to be more 
expansive.
    With that, I look forward to hearing the testimony from the 
witnesses and I will yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you. Other members of the committee are 
reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the 
record.
    We are pleased to now have a distinguished panel of 
witnesses before us today on this very important topic and I 
would love to introduce them.
    The Honorable Frank Fannon, the managing director of Fannon 
Global Advisories. Thank you for joining us.
    The Honorable Joseph Manchin, former U.S. senator of West 
Virginia. Thank you for joining us.
    The Honorable Jose Fernandez, former under secretary for 
economic growth, energy, and the environment--the E family at 
the Department of State. Thank you for joining us.
    This committee recognizes the importance of the issues 
before us and is grateful to have all of you here to speak with 
us today.
    Your full statements will be made part of the record and 
I'll ask each of you to keep your spoken remarks to 5 minutes 
in order to allow time for member questions.
    I now recognize Mr. Fannon for your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF FRANK FANNON

    Mr. Fannon. Thank you, Subcommittee Chair Kim and Ranking 
Member Bera, for the opportunity to speak on one of the most 
pressing national security challenges of our time.
    China has been waging what I have termed a quiet war 
against the United States for years. This is not a war fought 
with missiles and bullets but one waged with minerals and 
refineries.
    The Chinese Communist Party has systematically weaponized 
its control over critical mineral supply chains as part of a 
broader strategy to displace the United States as the world's 
indispensable power.
    U.S. intelligence agencies have confirmed that communist 
China is an existential threat for many years, yet Washington 
has been reluctant to take the necessary and sometimes 
difficult actions.
    Unlike the West, Beijing does not subscribe to definition 
of war as simply acts of force but instead follows Sun Tzu's 
guidance that supreme excellence consists in breaking the 
enemy's resistance without fighting and recommends first 
attacking this strategy.
    Wars are fought with industrial capacity in the supply 
chains to fuel it. The CCP seeks to win its war by depriving 
the United States the means to ever wage a kinetic one.
    China controls most of the critical minerals that underpin 
defense and weapon systems, energy technologies, and the 
building blocks for the modern economy.
    Although America has a significant resource endowment, the 
U.S. is 100 percent import reliant on nearly a quarter of the 
50 critical minerals and over 50 percent reliant on 29 of them.
    The United States must take bold actions rather than spend 
time increasing awareness of the problem. President Trump's 
executive orders signal a meaningful shift toward action.
    With that in mind, I'd like to touch on a few of the 
recommendations from my written testimony.
    First, the United States should be clear that it is focused 
on critical minerals for national and economic security. By 
adopting security as America's organizing principle the U.S. 
can take the appropriate countermeasures.
    Further, this clear goal will signal to partners, 
governments, resource-rich nations, and investors that America 
is serious and committed to mineral security.
    Next, the U.S. must right size, modernize, and use its 
international finance tools. China has deployed more than a 
trillion dollars in Belt and Road Initiatives including in 
critical minerals and in 2023 increased mining and metals 
focused investments 158 percent over 22 levels.
    The United States should not try to emulate the Chinese 
state-led model. Instead, should leverage its comparative 
advantage, the American private sector. This requires an 
appropriate Federal financing partner on the other side and the 
DFC and EXIM Bank are those partners.
    For the U.S. Government the DFC and EXIM can advance 
America's foreign policy. From the business lens they are 
sources of catalytic capital and, importantly, a means to 
derisk investment opportunities in emerging markets.
    Congress should significantly increase the DFC's funding 
and fix the scoring problem that treats equity investments as 
grants.
    The EXIM should be more nimble, lower domestic content 
requirements, and have greater risk tolerance. The DFC and EXIM 
should prioritize partnerships with American investors and 
companies and disqualify partners--parties with substantial 
Chinese ownership interests.
    This approach is consistent with the important 
strengthening of the foreign entity of concern provisions 
included in the One Big Beautiful Bill.
    To meet our challenges will require working with partners 
and allies, but America's minerals diplomacy should focus on 
performance-based partnerships that include objective measures 
such as dollars invested and tons of material mined.
    China is the lowest cost producer through State investments 
and shirking labor and environmental protections. Congress 
should highlight China's unethical inhumane practices.
    By increasing transparency the U.S. and free nations can 
impose penalties or establish barriers against unethically 
sourced critical minerals and thereby catalyze differential 
pricing.
    Breaking China's choke hold requires moving beyond semantic 
debates about decoupling versus derisking and adopting a bold 
strategy necessary for victory.
    I stand ready to work with this committee and the 
administration to assure America wins this quiet war and 
secures our critical mineral independence for generations to 
come.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Fannon follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Mr. Fannon.
    I now recognize Mr. Manchin for your opening statement.

                  STATEMENT OF JOSEPH MANCHIN

    Mr. Manchin. Chairwoman Kim and Ranking Member Bera, I want 
to thank you all and the members of this committee for the 
opportunity to share my perspective on this vital and 
bipartisan economic and national security issue.
    It's something I put years of work into during my time as 
chair and ranking member of the Senate Committee on Energy and 
Natural Resources as well as the Senate Armed Services 
Committee.
    When I joined the Senate in 2010 China put rare earth 
export controls on Japan following a territorial dispute over 
islands they claimed ownership of, which should really sound 
familiar to all of us.
    From that moment through the Energy Act of 2020, which 
created the critical minerals list itself, through my last day 
in the Senate I focused on this issue, and while there has been 
good legislation there remains much more to be done.
    If I could leave you with one thing today is to impress the 
urgent need for us and our allies to have strong, reliable 
critical mineral supply chains across the three phases--
extraction, processing and manufacturing--so that no part of 
the process is in the hands of an adversary.
    The solution includes the use of our financing tools like 
the Development Finance Corporation, the Defense Production 
Act, and the Export-Import Bank. We need to reauthorize and 
strengthen these key financial tools so that we have a full 
toolbox, and given the committee's focus we must keep in mind 
that none of this works without diplomatic engagement.
    The Senate department must focus on energy security with 
experts who understand the complexity of resource economics and 
energy geopolitics with emphasis to prioritize the issue in 
country.
    Finally, we need to make sure that this effort is 
coordinated so that efforts across so many agencies are 
effective and don't work across purposes or waste investments.
    Here's why this matters now more than ever. Just like Putin 
weaponized Russia's oil and gas resources to try to scare off 
Europe from supporting Ukraine, Xi Jinping and the Chinese 
Communist Party are more than willing to use critical minerals 
as leverage to put Americans and the free world at risk.
    They have ramped that up in earnest recently by flooding 
the market with oversupply, driving prices down and leaving 
producers worldwide unable to compete, and then using export 
controls once they dominate the market.
    In fact, at the end of 2023 I held a hearing in the wake of 
the first round of China's export restrictions on gallium and 
germanium, two critical minerals that are needed for 
semiconductor fabrication.
    As I feared that export restrictions became a ban in the 
late 2024 that, with recent trade disputes, they have gone even 
further by cutting off our supplies of rare earths, antimony, 
tungsten, and more.
    That is why tariffs are so important. Tariffs are needed to 
protect the building blocks of our economy and national 
security as well those of our allies from China's market 
distortions and economic malfeasance.
    That is what tariffs are for, to protect strategic 
industries by penalizing bad actors and keeping the U.S. prices 
competitive.
    Even worse than Europe's addiction to Russian gas, which is 
about 45 percent of supply in 2021, we are over 90 percent 
reliant on China for graphite, gallium, rare earths, over 60 
percent reliant germanium, over 70 percent reliant for high-
grade cobalt and nickel, and I could go on and on.
    And China's critical mineral grip extends around the entire 
globe. They control mines throughout the world, all of which 
feed a processing and manufacturing powerhouse that they 
control.
    So just as we cannot solve this problem alone, we are not 
in this mess by ourselves either. We must acknowledge that 
while we can provide much of the minerals we need domestically, 
we don't have the capacity to produce or process every mineral 
in the quantities that we need here in the United States in 
North America or even in a newly formed AUKUS security 
partnership between Australia, the United Kingdom and the U.S.
    Even if capacity weren't an issue we can't afford to spend 
a billion dollars per mineral to support domestic suppliers. 
Our debt is a national security threat, too, and we must come 
to grips with that.
    Permitting reform is essential to fast track domestic 
production but we also need to ensure that we are working with 
trusted and reliable partners when it comes to overseas mineral 
resourcing.
    That means looking first to friends like Canada, Australia, 
Japan, and Norway but also building new trusted partners 
throughout efforts like the Mineral Security Partnership and 
countering China through the energy and mineral diplomacy 
efforts under the committee's jurisdiction.
    We must also be extremely cautious of our policies where 
the Chinese have a majority of control like the Democratic 
Republic of Congo and Indonesia and don't get sucked in when 
they have total control either.
    So in closing, the time to solve this issue is now and 
Congress has a grave responsibility to step up to the plate. I 
look forward to your questions and thank you for asking me to 
be here today.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Manchin follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you, Mr. Manchin.
    And now I recognize Mr. Fernandez for your opening 
statement.

                 STATEMENT OF JOSE W. FERNANDEZ

    Mr. Fernandez. Thank you. Thank you and good morning.
    Chairwoman Kim, Ranking Member Bera, members of this 
committee, thank you for having me here. I'm going to try and 
be brief because I very much share what's been said before me.
    Briefly stated, we have a need and we have a problem. The 
need is that the world needs exponentially more critical 
minerals and rare earths. We need them for just about anything 
and everything that we use--data centers, semiconductors, 
energy, battery storage, EVs--and these numbers are staggering.
    In the last couple of years the demand for energy battery 
storage has doubled. The IEA tells us that by 2050 we'll need 
42 times the amount of lithium that we use today. That's the 
need.
    The problem is that the PRC controls or owns just about 
all, if not--or at least most of these minerals, two-thirds of 
the world's lithium and cobalt, 100 percent of the graphite, 19 
out of 20 strategic minerals.
    This is a strategy that the PRC has followed now for over 
decades. It also involves subsidies. The IEA has estimated that 
20 to 40 percent of the cost of a mine in China is subsidized 
by the government.
    That is the problem, and as the senator just outlined the 
PRC has been willing to exercise its dominance. We saw it even 
this year with the seven heavy rare earths.
    When I was in office we helped to deal with the germanium 
export controls. We were able to secure 25 percent of the 
world's global supply through our allies and partners.
    We have also seen the PRC use predatory pricing. That's 
what a monopolist does. It uses its power in order to drive 
down the competition.
    So what have they done? They have flooded the market. The 
price of cobalt, the price of lithium, has gone down 75, 80 
percent. The price of cobalt today is lower than the price in 
2017. That is part of the strategy.
    But there's a bright side. There's a bright side, and that 
is that we are pushing on an open door. When we started working 
on the Mineral Security Partnership and I went to our allies 
and partners they shared the same concerns. They actually were 
looking to do something about their diversification of critical 
minerals.
    They saw the same need, and when we proposed the MSP 
concept they bought it immediately. They wanted U.S. 
leadership. That's our partners and allies.
    Producing countries want our investments. We don't bribe. 
We follow the law. We don't bring in our workers.
    So we created the Mineral Security Partnership based on the 
premise that no country can solve this problem alone. We had 
four lines of effort. We shared information with our partners 
because if we couldn't put together the deal for a mine perhaps 
other countries could.
    We did what private equity and banks do which is we finance 
together in order to derisk and minimize the risk. We included 
recycling projects because we are told that 30 percent of the 
world's need could be could be met in the next 10, 20 years by 
recycling.
    And last, we had to make a better offer and our offer was 
we would adhere to high ESG principles because we could not win 
a race to the bottom and so we had to change the terms of the 
debate.
    We were successful. We were a deal shop; we were not a talk 
shop. We had over 30 projects that we supported in our 2 years. 
Thirteen of those are public.
    We actually had countries come to me and say, Jose, if our 
companies invest in a mining deal in country X we're going to 
get screwed. But if the U.S. comes they won't mess with us.
    So some of what we did was diplomatic support. We also were 
able to work with our colleagues at the DFC, at EXIM Bank, at 
USTDA in order to finance together, and we were just getting 
started.
    I am very happy to see the--your proposed MSP authorization 
bill. I welcome it. It incorporates the lessons of the MSP. It 
gives it the tools for success.
    It's a partnership with partner countries that tries to 
galvanize the private sector and that is our best weapon. That 
is our secret weapon, our private sector as well as our allies.
    I've made three suggestions in my testimony that I hope we 
can discuss today. I think we're going to need more funding. If 
you look at what France, Germany, Australia, Japan, Korea, and 
others have done, all of those have billion-dollar investment 
funds in order to derisk and do early stage investing.
    They also--I've also proposed that we not ignore recycling 
and, last, that we create an emergency response team in order 
to address the continued weaponization by the PRC.
    But, again, I very much welcome your proposed bill and I 
hope we can discuss it later this morning.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Fernandez follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mrs. Kim.Thank you to all of our witnesses for your 
wonderful opening statements, and we'll go into member 
questioning and I recognize myself to first ask questions.
    And I want to pick up on what Mr. Fernandez said about the 
Chinese predatory tactics. So let me talk about how the 
significant challenge we face today is China's ability to flood 
global markets with low cost criminal--I mean, yes, criminal--
critical minerals leveraging state-backed subsidies, for 
example, nickel prices that have fallen 75 percent in the last 
several years because of the Chinese oversupply.
    So let me ask this question to Senator Manchin. Why does 
China's choke hold on critical minerals threaten the U.S. 
economic competitiveness and national security, and if you can 
talk about to what extent can domestic production reduce this 
dependence and why is international engagement still essential?
    Mr. Manchin. When you look at what we're dealing with and 
look in history, the 20th century--beginning in the 20th 
century the United States became a powerhouse because of our 
energy.
    Back then, it was relied upon on coal. Made the steel. We 
did an awful lot of things and we basically pulled ourselves 
out of poverty, became an industrial leader. That was necessary 
for us to have reliable, dependable, affordable energy.
    Today, critical minerals is the same as that energy was 
needed back in the 20th century. So in the 21st century the new 
boom is going to be basically critical minerals.
    Well, everything that we do depends on the superconductors 
and the magnets and all the different things and special alloys 
and steels that we use.
    Those are building blocks. Where I think that we made a 
mistake that we should have trade agreements and we should have 
basically penalties with tariffs in order to protect our 
building blocks. That's it.
    Everything else should be used as an incentive to do trade, 
but protecting, basically, protecting our allies and countries 
across the world that we can rely on and we have a chain of 
allies that we can depend on.
    We have Canada, tremendous cache of rare earth minerals; 
Australia, tremendous cache; the United States, possibility of 
a tremendous cache. We weren't allowed to mine and process. And 
then you have Japan and South Korea able to do refining.
    We have a building block right there that we could start 
and get in the game very quickly. You got to let the private 
sector in. We can't take this debt on--continue to take all 
these debts on and the risk.
    Those are the things, and what happens if you let China 
control that it will be no different than what Putin tried to 
do with oil and gas and our allies. Same thing. So you've got 
to have independence.
    Mrs. Kim.From that and then ask Mr. Fannon similar 
questions, too.
    Given China's capacity to undercut the competitors, what 
policies can we consider to shield domestic and allied mineral 
producers from predatory pricing tactics?
    Mr. Fannon. Thank you for the question. I think this is 
key. What I don't think we can do is rely on traditional, 
conventional norms and practices because China rejects them.
    We talked--the senator spoke about the rare earth dispute 
in 2010 and the response from the United States at the time, 
along with Europe and Japan, was to initiate a WTO action 
against China.
    It took 2 years for that to be concluded and it found what 
we knew, China was cheating, but in that interim China dumped 
material onto the market and killed the economic basis for that 
company so they went out of business.
    So what we have to do is a new way of thinking about these 
things. In terms of what the steps we should pursue one of 
those would be--and the senator mentioned tariffs--I think 
targeted tariffs is exactly the right approach.
    China, according to the International Energy Agency, 
recently concluded that China's cost of capital is 50 percent 
less than anywhere else in the world to do a mining project. 
That's very hard to compete with.
    Second, the issues on how they do their business it's very 
opaque. We don't know how they do their business. It's hard to 
see. What we know is that they violate environmental and human 
rights all the time and actually last year the Department of 
Labor issued a report underscoring that.
    I think a higher degree of scrutiny is important. It could 
create differential pricing. We always talk about having a 
green premium because there will be a commodity produced in a 
way with lower carbon, but industry is reluctant to pay more 
for it if they're competing against a commodity at a lower 
cost.
    Rather than ask U.S. industry and U.S. companies to pay 
more we should try to level the playing field. I think the 
administration is keen to do that by making the cost of the--
increasing the cost on the Chinese side.
    At the same time, we have a pacing challenge. The senator 
noted the amazing resource abundance in America. It takes a 
long time to develop a mine.
    We have to go where the rocks are and where there's 
political will to develop them. So it'll be a combination of 
domestic side, market interventions on pricing, but also to 
create a favorable environment to develop mines in some of 
these resource rich jurisdictions and the mobilization of 
entities like the DFC.
    Mrs. Kim.Thank you. I have a lot of questions to ask you 
so, hopefully, we'll have a second chance to come around 
questioning. But for now, I'm going to turn it over to my 
ranking member to ask questions.
    Mr. Bera. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And, again, 
listening to each of the witnesses you couldn't tell who were 
the Republican witnesses or who were the Democratic witnesses, 
which, again, just emphasizes why this is a nonpartisan issue 
and it's in our national security interest. So we should 
certainly approach it from that perspective.
    Under Secretary Fernandez, we worked pretty closely on the 
Mineral Security Partnership and, again, I think it is the 
right strategy, working with countries that share our values, 
take a free market approach, and obviously are--have directly 
felt the impact of economic coercion from the Chinese which, 
again, I think we're very afraid of.
    I'm going to ask you about--you made three recommendations 
that we should be thinking about and one that I've thought a 
lot about but I don't think we talk as much about is the 
recycling component of it.
    And if you want to expand on that and how you would think 
about it as we think about authorizations, investments, and 
recycling. I think you mentioned up to 30 percent of our supply 
could come from recycling.
    Mr. Fernandez. Thank you for your question.
    This is not my number. This is the IEA saying that in a few 
years 30 percent of our minerals could come from recycled 
batteries.
    Right now we don't have enough batteries to recycle but in 
a few years we will, and that's huge. I mean, we heard before 
that it takes 10, 15, sometimes 20 years for a mine to come on 
stream. It's much quicker to do a recycling project.
    The issue has been that there is not enough feed stock in 
order to feed recycling right now but so we need to put 
together incentives. We need to put together mandates in order 
to make sure that that feedstock exists.
    But right now there are companies. The MSP funded and 
supported a project in the U.K. a recycling project that the EU 
has also supported. There are opportunities right now and it's 
yet another opportunity for our private sector to get involved 
because there's money to be made here.
    Mr. Bera. Right.
    Senator Manchin, you talked about the various tools that we 
have available, whether that's the DFC, EXIM Bank, the Defense 
Production Act. Do you want to elaborate a little bit more on 
that?
    And, you know, I think one thing as we--this committee goes 
through the reauthorization process for DFC what are some 
fundamental changes other than we do think we need to increase 
the limits?
    Mr. Manchin. Representative Bera, the question you've asked 
is a good question because basically what we have is a critical 
situation in our country right today.
    National defense authorization would be the way to go right 
now because you can accelerate whether it be permitting that 
you needed for these projects. Permitting is something we have 
worked on very, very diligently.
    We made some inroads but not enough. In order to do that, 
to get into the rare earth minerals that we have in our 
country, I have always said this. You can't ask other countries 
to do what you won't do for yourself.
    If we have a cache of rare earth minerals we should be able 
to mine them, we should be able to process, and we should 
manufacture, and working with our allies around the world we 
should do the same.
    You have got to form a bloc, really, and basically national 
defense authorization for defense of our country, and this is 
what's at stake right now, can we defend ourselves? Can we have 
the defense we need?
    Do we have the critical minerals for that, computers and 
chips? Do we have it for our economic growth, compete in AI? 
All the things we're competing with right now it's a race, 
basically, who's going to lead the 21st century and beyond?
    And the United States has been the leader. It's, basically, 
leaderships looked upon from the free world and whether we 
survive or not.
    So with that, I think it's critical. Use what you have now 
but the big elephant in the room right now is national defense 
authorization. Allows you to bypass an awful lot of this and 
the determination that we have got to have this done as quickly 
as possible, and it could be.
    Mr. Bera. Great.
    And, Under Secretary Fernandez, if my colleague from 
California Dr. Ruiz was here, he's bent my ear a lot on, you 
know, Lithium Valley, the Salton Sea and the possibilities 
there, thinking about just the vast supplies of lithium 
potentially there, and doing it in an economically responsible 
way.
    I know he's talked to you in the past about this. Would you 
want to just expand on the potential? That is one of the 
poorest counties in California if not the country and, you 
know, doing something like that in a responsible way seems 
possible.
    Mr. Fernandez. I'm familiar with that project and that's a 
project that, like several other projects in the U.S., is quite 
promising and I think we need to find ways of supporting it.
    The senator spoke about permitting. Both sides recognize 
that this is a problem. We have got to speed that up. We don't 
have the luxury of time.
    The other thing on lithium goes to the question that 
Chairwoman Kim asked about oversupply. We have--oversupply is a 
temporary problem. Our lithium--our demand for lithium keeps 
going up year after year, 10, 20 percent over the last 5 years.
    But the prices go down. Why is that? Because of oversupply. 
But if you look at the numbers, if you look at the history, in 
10 years the world will need more lithium even with the 
overabundance that we have today.
    So what we have to do is find ways to help our industries, 
to help our companies, survive the next five to 10 years. It's 
almost like a boxer hanging on for that round to end so that 
they can take a break.
    And so I think we ought to be looking at lithium and we 
ought to be looking at the overabundance problem of something 
that we're going to need to deal now but that won't be there, 
hopefully, if we do our job right in the next 10 years.
    Mr. Bera. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mrs. Kim.All right. I now recognize the gentlelady from 
South Carolina Ms. Biggs.
    Ms. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    And my first question is for Senator Manchin. Given 
President Trump's March the 20th executive order titled 
``Immediate Measures to Increase American Mineral Production,'' 
to what extent can Congress direct the Development Finance 
Corporation to use the authorities available under the Defense 
Production Act to finance domestic mining projects?
    Mr. Manchin. Anything we do today from the government we 
have to consider the debt of the Nation, I think. It is very 
important to all of us.
    But with that being said, how do we partner up with private 
is what you're asking and we can do that. I think the MP 
project that the President just announced is a very good start.
    Basically, it's a company that was kind of toyed with with 
the Chinese forever. They really broke the company, put them in 
bankruptcy, took over basically their production, and basically 
now we're coming back to where the Federal Government stepped 
in to have ownership.
    A company I'm involved with is called Ramaco, just now that 
we have announced it mining coal--first coal mine in 70 years 
in Wyoming. It has critical minerals in the binding which is a 
tremendous opportunity for us to get two for one and that's 
going to be something we think is going to be very promising.
    There's others in the United States that we can do but the 
Federal Government really has to make--who's going to be the 
off take? Is it the Department of Defense? Is it going to be 
the private sector and the economy?
    Well, you've got to protect it from the standpoint that 
private sector capitalization is going to go where the cheapest 
prices are--it's just the way the system works--unless it's 
protected by tariffs that does not allow China to dump on us 
when you have rare earth, whether it be lithium, granite, 
germanium, whatever it may be.
    They can't come in and undercut it to where someone says, 
well, in the private sector I'll buy there versus here, and 
that's where you offset with your tariffs. That's what we think 
the Federal Government can do is they can be the referee.
    They can put the guardrails on that protects us to grow not 
just here, with Canada, Australia, some of our leading 
partners--Japan--things that they've been able to do.
    So there's an awful lot that we have that people work with 
us and be part of--be a partnership versus us trying to do it 
by ourself.
    Ms. Biggs. Thank you.
    And the second part what do you feel like are the primary 
reasons for DFC's limited success in financing mining and 
quarrying projects as evidenced by only a 1.2 percent of its 
active projects being in this sector?
    Mr. Manchin. Time. Just time. Permitting. You know, I'll 
give you an example. You can start. I'll give you a perfect 
example, the Mountain Valley Pipeline, MVP.
    We tried for a long time. It started out as a $3.2 billion 
project. Because of litigation and time ended up $8 billion. 
Companies won't do that. They just won't unless there's some 
certainty, and that's why I encourage all of you, permitting--
we have worked hard over the years, and Congressman Westerman 
is a good friend of mine.
    We worked together very closely and we're very--we have a 
bill we think is very close to being done. We think you all can 
take it across the finish line. It really needs to be done.
    You need to codify that. Even executive orders by the 
President with all his good will kind of gets back and forth--
seesaw back and forth in the process of legislation, if you 
will.
    But when you codify something it's much more permanent. 
That's what I would encourage. And timing is what's killing 
everything. They won't go into that unless they know there's 
going to be an off take.
    You can't get an off take to finance it unless you know 
they're time sensitive. People are not going to invest billions 
and billions of dollars knowing they may be strung out seven, 
10, 15 years to get something permitted. It has to come to 
market quicker than that.
    Ms. Biggs. Thank you so much for your insight.
    And my next question is for Mr. Fannon. A recent report 
highlights a critical vulnerability. The U.S. is completely 
dependent on imports for 10 essential minerals and over 50 
percent reliant on imports for 30 others.
    So these include vital materials like gallium. I think we 
have already mentioned a couple--germanium and graphite, which 
are crucial for everything from our weapon systems to batteries 
and electronics.
    So how important is it that we use supply chain tools 
capable of tracking these materials down to the specific bolt 
and chip in a system rather than just broad categories, and how 
does this level of detail help us pinpoint our vulnerabilities 
and precisely what needs fixing to keep our systems 
operational?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, thank you for the question.
    The critical mineral supply chain is remarkably complex and 
it is opaque. It is not like--like, oil and gas are--they're 
huge commodities. They're liquid. They're widely known. Pricing 
is clear.
    When it comes to some of these critical minerals how you do 
you even realize price discovery? What is the price and how--
who's exerting that pricing power? It's very difficult even to 
understand that, much less the provenance of some of these 
things.
    Some of the minerals--these minor but critically important 
minerals are actually produced alongside other commodities. The 
issue, germanium--the lack of that, there are defense primes 
who are in really dire straits because they can't source it.
    Where do they get it? This is an enormous problem. The 
challenge we have is also where within the U.S. Government 
should that kind of tracking sit. We have--because the 
administration--successful administration, the bipartisan issue 
of this has elevated the awareness of critical minerals.
    One of the issues now is we have about 15 Federal agencies 
asserting some kind of involvement. Well, how are we going to 
lead that?
    How are we going to coordinate that? I think the 
President's designation of the National Energy Dominance 
Council is a good start to help coordinate that and, perhaps, 
could start that tracking process for those minerals to 
understand where are they, where are they coming from, and how 
do we get more of them.
    Ms. Biggs. Thank you. And I'm sorry, my time has expired. I 
yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. Well, thank you.
    Let me now recognize the gentleman from Maryland Mr. 
Olszewski.
    Mr. Olszewski. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking 
Member Bera, and thank you to all of our witnesses today. I 
appreciate the focus of this hearing and there's, clearly, no 
question that the PRC's control of much of the critical mineral 
supply chain makes us more vulnerable.
    And I want to echo Ranking Member Bera's comments about how 
I really appreciate the ways in which this has become and 
remains a bipartisan concern because it is a serious concern 
that our largest global competitor supplies more than 50 
percent of demand for 24 critical minerals including more than 
90 percent of those rare earth elements as discussed.
    So I think we all agree that the U.S. needs to do more to 
do this and I want to thank our witnesses for providing some 
suggestions in this space.
    But I also don't want this Congress or this administration 
to focus so heavily just on competition that we also lose sight 
and disregard the very real labor and human rights abuses that 
we know are happening that are so prevalent across the mineral 
supply chain, primarily in artisanal and small-scale mines that 
operate informally and that are least regulated by governments.
    For example, reports suggest that major Chinese critical 
mineral producers use forced labor programs in the Uighur 
region. Across the DRC there are as many as 40,000 child 
laborers in its cobalt mines.
    And so, sadly, while I applaud some of the actions taken by 
the administration in this space, some of the tools that are 
really important in addressing these concerns have actually 
been taken away by this administration.
    Just two quick examples. Many of the grant programs within 
the Department of Labor's Bureau of International Labor Affairs 
has been cut.
    We know these are programs that have played a critical role 
in addressing forced labor and human trafficking across the 
world. This administration has also paused enforcement of the 
Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which has helped expose 
corruption in business practices.
    So I'm a member that believes we need all of the tools at 
our disposal to strengthen access to critical minerals but I 
also believe that goes hand in glove with our responsibility to 
ensure this is a sector that drives equitable growth, supports 
local communities, and is not built on the back of exploiting 
laborers and especially not exploiting children.
    So as our President ushers in a more transactional foreign 
policy I want to make sure that our investments are also 
staying aligned with our values.
    I'll start with you, Mr. Fernandez, in terms of questions. 
How do we strike that balance? How do we ensure that U.S. 
efforts to diversify our critical mineral supply chains don't 
come at the expense of human rights and transparency?
    Mr. Fernandez. Thank you for your question.
    Look, there is no--there's no conflict here. Good business 
practices, responsible business practices, are our calling 
card. If you talk to African leaders they want alternatives. 
They want alternatives to the PRC.
    We're not forcing them to do that. We're basically--they 
are basically saying to us, we want what they call 
beneficiation. They want value added investments, not just 
mining. They're looking for good labor practices. They complain 
that the PRC brings their own workers and takes the minerals 
back home.
    So they want those kinds of--those kinds of practices. It 
is our calling card. I've had African leaders get up and give 
me a hug when I talk to them about what we'd like to do for 
communities.
    There are lots of projects around the world that simply 
don't see the light of day because communities oppose them. 
They oppose them because of what you mentioned.
    So I don't see a conflict here. In fact, I see it as a 
business opportunity. I see it as part of what--our offer. Why 
is our offer better?
    Because we will not engage in the race to the bottom. We 
will not win a race to the bottom. We will engage in the race 
to the top. And if we do that I'll take my chances.
    Mr. Olszewski. Yes, good opportunity to both advance 
American interests but also do the right thing for humanity.
    I think I'll have time for one more question so I'll turn 
to workforce. We know that over half of the U.S. mining 
workforce, about 220,000 people, is projected to retire in the 
next 5 years.
    As we think about domestic production we should be 
concerned about that. We also know the number of mining and 
mineral engineering programs in the U.S. has dropped from 25 in 
1982 to 15 in 2023, a very stark contrast to China which 
actually has seen an increase in terms of their engineering 
programs.
    Senator Manchin, I know this is an issue you led on in the 
Senate quite a bit. How do you think we should address the 
critical talent gap so that Congress is doing all that we can 
to ensure that we're building a workforce to address the need?
    Mr. Manchin. Well, we would encourage you all to pass the 
Mining Schools Act that we sent over and I think you all took 
it under consideration and maybe ran out of time.
    That's an easy one to pick up and run with right now, which 
puts us back into the game as far as educating the workforce 
we're going to need for the future.
    If I can just say something about what you said before. The 
bottom line is supply and demand. There's a tremendous demand 
for the products that China is supplying. People really, when 
push comes to shove, they don't worry a whole lot.
    They just want that product and they're paying prices for 
it, and humans are paying a price--a horrific price. Until we 
get into the game with our allies in the free world you're not 
going to offset that.
    We have to give an alternative and then protect it with, 
basically, tariffs so they can't come in and destroy our 
markets. Then you can put that.
    But also we have so many restrictions and obligations that 
we put on businesses doing business within our sphere of the 
free world that it makes it more difficult, time consuming, and 
costly. That's what we have to protect to be more efficient.
    But the bottom line is supply and demand is what drives it 
all. But the act that we have--I think you all have that--that 
we're happy to reintroduce it if I can't get some of our 
friends to hand it right back to you all.
    Mr. Olszewski. Appreciate that. Sounds like we have to get 
to work. I know I'm over time. So with that, Madam Chair, I 
yield back. Thank you all.
    Mrs. Kim.I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania 
Mr. Mackenzie.
    Mr. Mackenzie. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all 
of our panelists for being here today. Very important topic 
about critical minerals, their importance for Americans' 
safety, security, economic prosperity, and also the challenge 
that we face with China and their control over key parts of the 
supply chain. So thank you all for being here.
    My first question is how is China currently leveraging its 
control over the supply chain against us and our allies? Is it 
mostly focused on economic control or is there also a national 
security element that they are laying a trap for us?
    And I'll go to any of the panelists who want to start.
    Mr. Manchin. Well, I mean, they started a long time ago. 
This is back in the 1990's when they saw something that they 
thought they could control and get involved with and they're 
doing the jobs that nobody else wanted to do.
    The refining they do is basically extremely harmful to the 
environment to a certain extent that we wouldn't accept that at 
all. With that being said, they don't have anybody to answer 
to.
    You know, their form of government basically allows them to 
do as they wish and they've been able to basically capture a 
market.
    Says, listen, you send all your product to us. They go over 
and do the mining--send their people over to do the mining. 
Send it back to China to do the processing and refining. No one 
else is willing to do it.
    And there is ways to do that. You know, there's technology 
that can do it much cleaner, much more safer for the 
environment and for the workers. But they dominated that market 
and had a 20-year start on all of us.
    So how do you get that? You can't say, well, we can't sit 
back and just accept what it is. We can get into the game very 
quickly. I think President Trump is in Pennsylvania today in 
your beautiful State right next door to my State and, 
hopefully, energy is going to be the topic of what they talk 
about today.
    And I think you're going to find some private sector 
willing to jump into the market now to accelerate that with the 
help of the government.
    Mr. Mackenzie. Mr. Fernandez?
    Mr. Fernandez. Congressman, they're using it right now with 
seven heavy rare earth materials. It's being used as we speak. 
But it's more than that. It's not just the exercise of that 
dominance. It's the threat of that dominance.
    There are many countries out there that will tell you, we 
do not want to do certain things because the PRC will take--
will retaliate. And so just that threat sometimes is enough to 
change behavior among our allies and partners. So it's got to 
go beyond the actual public bans--export bans and export 
restrictions.
    Mr. Mackenzie. Mr. Fannon?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I just would just add to that the IEA did 
a did a N1 analysis to look at what are--what's the 
availability of global supplies if you take out China, and it's 
only about 35 percent for a lot of these minerals--35 to 50 
percent of available global supplies as of right now.
    That changes the entire psychology of when countries 
interact with one another. They don't want to offend the 
supplier. So, like, Germany for years claimed that Russia was a 
reliable gas supplier until they weren't.
    It's the same. It changes--why were they unable to do it? 
Just because so much of their economy was linked to having 
cheap gas to fuel their manufacturing base. The same now that, 
like, in German--Russia gas now we're America critical minerals 
with China.
    We need to reverse that. I think we have the ability to do 
it as has been discussed. We just have to move forward and 
execute quickly.
    Mr. Mackenzie. Well, I appreciate all of your comments, 
clearly, a recognition of the problem that we're facing with 
China's control of the supply chain so--and the way that 
they're using it and leveraging it against us.
    We have heard some great suggestions about improving 
permitting, increasing partnerships with our allies. My 
question is there has been some discussion around one component 
of a solution being that the U.S. establish a strategic 
minerals reserve or a critical minerals reserve.
    I would love to hear any of your thoughts on that as 
something that we could do to address this challenge.
    Mr. Manchin. Up to about 20, 30 years ago we used to have 
critical mineral reserves. You can go around the country and 
find different deposits of it and that was eliminated after the 
cold war.
    Thought it wasn't needed anymore, which is a bad mistake. 
You know, I guess everyone's at fault of that but never thought 
it was needed. But that was changed--changed everything.
    So that would be something that we should do but we have 
got to get to production first. Look at what we did with LNG. 
We were able to do something with LNGs quicker than anything 
that's ever been done, ever thought we could do, and now we 
replaced most of Russia's oil and gas that was going into our 
allies and U.K. and all that, you know, with what we were able 
to do because we were able to put that into the market. We 
could do the same here if we work collaboration.
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I think it's a crucial issue. We have a 
national defense stockpile that exists but it's remarkably 
underfunded. There's very little in it.
    The other thing I think it's important to distinguish is, 
you know, we talk about the defense industrial base. I think 
that's a bit of a misnomer. It's just the industrial base. If 
things get hot all of our companies will throw in and be 
involved in an effort.
    What I think we have to think about is broader. The defense 
uses on an annualized basis about 500 tons of rare earth a 
year. The U.S. economy as a whole is 10,000 tons. We do have a 
stockpile that's for the U.S. economy when it comes to oil, the 
Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
    The question is do we consider that for the broad 
industrial base for the U.S. economy and then how do you do it. 
It's very, very challenging and I think that as Congress 
considers this and the administration, it's critical to talk to 
the private sector who are experts in this.
    Also, we're in a how do you fund it, how do you fill it, 
when we're so deficient currently. We're going to have to meet 
our needs and then start, not dissimilar to the question of 
recycling.
    We need to first have a foundation from which to recycle. 
We first need to have a foundation of resiliency from which to 
build a reserve.
    Thanks.
    Mr. Mackenzie. Thank you all. I think it is an important 
conversation that we have, going forward, and appreciate your 
input today.
    Thank you.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Let me now recognize the representative from Florida 
Moskowitz since he was here first, with all due respect.
    Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    Senator, good to see you again.
    Mr. Manchin. Good to see you.
    Mr. Moskowitz. So some really good questions on this. I 
want to spend my 5 minutes with trying to break this down for 
the American people because being the emergency management 
director during COVID in Florida I saw how the lack of 
manufacturing in this country, the reliance on China, was a 
major detriment in a pandemic.
    I can't imagine, God forbid, we got into a war in the near 
future, the surprise that the American people would have of the 
things that we, A, don't make here anymore, or B, rely on other 
folks to supply us supplies that could be cutoff.
    How do we educate the American people? Like, I got to be 
honest, when I started learning about antimony I was, like, is 
that adamantium in ``Wolverine?'' Like, I had no idea. I had no 
idea what it was and then I realized, oh, this is a real 
problem.
    China has us and they know it and, you know, so what I want 
to spend some time with you guys is how do we tell the American 
people, like, this is kind of wrapped up in the tariff issue 
with China.
    China is controlling exports--threatening to control 
exports and our U.S. military literally relies on this stuff 
for some of the most critical weapons that we make.
    And so China has such a huge advantage and I want to talk 
about the stockpile because that was another lesson we learned 
during COVID, right?
    We went to the cupboard and the cupboards were bare, right? 
That was what we heard. But it was true. It was true. The 
National Strategic Stockpile was empty.
    Now, they put $2 billion to build a stockpile but that's 
not going to be enough. So I kind of want to open it up. How do 
we educate the American people on the national security risk 
and why this is so important?
    Senator, I'll give you the first bite at that.
    Mr. Manchin. Well, thank you so much, and, you know, I 
would just take off of that. If history--knowing our history if 
you want to read one book that tells you how we became the 
superpower of the world, how we won World War II, how we were 
able to be the armament of the world, we supplied the arms that 
were needed around the world--we outproduced everybody--read 
``Freedom's Forge'' if you want to read one book that tells you 
exactly who we became and how we became who we are today.
    That would put everything in perspective what we need to do 
now because we're way behind the curve and you went--and 
eloquently went into that. If we don't get back to producing, 
you know--well, you can go back to NAFTA and blame NAFTA. You 
can blame USMC.
    You can blame anything you want. You can blame 1990's, 
allowing China in the WTO, everything that we allowed to happen 
thinking that we could open up after the wall fell, you know.
    Mr. Moskowitz. No, and that's exactly right. Like, we could 
go back and----
    Mr. Manchin. We have been lulled to sleep. That's all.
    Mr. Moskowitz. We could figure out how we got here.
    Mr. Manchin. Yes.
    Mr. Moskowitz. But how do we--the American people have a 
lot going on. There's a lot of incoming, a lot of----
    Mr. Manchin. We have got to produce.
    Mr. Moskowitz. A lot of distractions. In the rare earth 
space, especially in antimony, which I want to focus on, how do 
we cut through to the American people to make them understand 
how--what a dangerous situation, quite frankly, we find 
ourselves in in this rare earth space.
    I supported when the President wanted to sign a deal with 
Ukraine on rare earth minerals. Most Americans were probably 
thinking to themself why are we even talking--why is that part 
of the equation, right?
    And so we're going to have to--we're never going to 
manufacture this stuff here, you know, with all the 
environmental rules, or even if we try it's going to be such a 
small amount.
    We're going to have to depend on allies to do that. And 
even if we can find the rare earth we don't have the experience 
to manufacture it. I mean, the Chinese it's literally a closely 
guarded secret.
    They got specific people with the specific techniques 
that's been passed down through generations of people and they 
are not letting those people leave to go other places to show 
you how you refine this stuff.
    How do we explain this to the American people?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I think it's--I guess it's really a 
political question because how do you--what I think you're 
asking, Congressman, is how do you get the American people to 
buy in so that they are able to--because it's going to cost 
more eventually to do things in a way that----
    Mr. Moskowitz. Yes, that's right.
    Mr. Fannon [continuing]. as we discussed does not offend 
human rights and the environment.
    Mr. Moskowitz. But that's exactly right. I mean, like, 
look, the White House I've seen them working on this but they 
got to work on the communications piece of this to look the 
American people in the face and say, you want to know why the 
cost of military weapons are going up?
    Here is why we have to spend more money. You want to know 
why we're doing these tariffs with China? Here is why.
    Mr. Fernandez, I want to give you a chance before I run out 
of time.
    Mr. Fernandez. Look, I think we need a little bit of 
humility. It took us a long time to get--to dig this hole and 
we are in a hole. I think you go--you take some examples. Two 
years ago the PRC imposed restrictions on germanium.
    I had never heard of germanium but turns out germanium is 
needed for semiconductors. At that point we had a problem. We 
literally spoke to a hundred countries and said, do you have 
any extra germanium you can sell to the world?
    We actually found some through the MSP, 25 percent of the 
world's supply we were able to have. It was just hanging around 
in a country that we'd never heard of.
    And so I think you've got to go example by example and do 
the same thing we did with--during COVID which is, you know, we 
have a problem that we didn't have active ingredients in that 
supply chain, as you know.
    But you've got to go--you've got to take a couple of 
examples and say, we have got a problem. And it took us a while 
to get here. It'll take us a while to dig out of this hole.
    Mrs. Kim. The gentleman's time is up. Great question. Great 
answers. I wish we just had more time.
    Now let me recognize the gentleman from Guam Mr. Moylan.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you, Madam Chair, for setting this timely 
topic especially. Two weeks ago, the Quad 4 Ministers met in 
Washington, DC, and announced the launch of a major new 
initiative, and as they clearly stated reliance on any one 
country for processing and refining critical minerals further 
harms our economic and national security.
    Given this understanding, we need to strengthen both our 
domestic efforts and international cooperation to build more 
resilient and diversified critical mineral supply chains.
    As part of the domestic efforts our vast offshore sea bed 
areas has significant potential to boost the supply of critical 
minerals. The Bureau of Ocean Energy Management says the 
Pacific Outer Continental Shelf, including the surrounding area 
of Guam, contains four different mineral deposit types, and if 
we can successfully utilize these resources on a commercial 
scale it will greatly enhance our supply chain resilience and 
national security.
    I hope this effort will be carried out in a matter of 
respect both local--to local stakeholders and the environment. 
Another important aspect of the international cooperation to 
counter China's dominance in critical minerals, China's abrupt 
restriction of critical material exports caused major 
disruption in global automotive industry and posed serious 
threats to defense equipment suppliers.
    However, we cannot leave these challenges solely to the 
private entities because, as we know, China employs nonmarket 
practices such as large-scale subsidies and it's extremely 
difficult for private actors to compete on their own.
    Securing stable and reliable supply chains is an urgent 
issue not only for the U.S. but also international communities. 
So we need to develop a shared strategy and framework among 
like minded countries to build alternative and resilient supply 
chains.
    So, Mr. Fannon, you have great experience being the first 
Assistant Secretary of State Energy Resources and do you 
believe that the State Department needs additional authorities 
to develop international cooperation and support of private 
sector investment in foreign countries?
    Mr. Fannon. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
    I would say that I think--believe the State Department has 
considerable authorities. What I think what would be useful is 
to increase the authorities of sister agencies, the 
International Development Finance Corporation, over which the 
Secretary of State serves as the chairman.
    The DFC also is an entity that by its mandate is supposed 
to integrate America's foreign policy as part of their 
investment thesis. So I think that working with the State 
Department and that--the body of the chair could--to empower 
the DFC to do more and that has a significant role for Congress 
in the reauthorization to empower them to do more, increasing 
the investment limits and also to allow for greater equity to 
be invested.
    I think that will--this capital from the DFC is catalytic 
in the sense that it unlocks other investors. As Jose was 
speaking, other countries want a U.S. investor there but how do 
we get them there?
    How do we crowd source additional co-investors? And this is 
a critically important tool.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you.
    Senator, of course, we know China controls over, roughly, 
90 percent and you were talking about this question earlier as 
well of all our critical minerals, but yet we have all these 
minerals spread across the U.S., Australia, and parts of East 
Asia and beyond.
    So in your view what's the most significant factor that 
enabled China to dominate the market and what's the most urgent 
action that we and our partners should take to counter it?
    Mr. Manchin. I think, first of all, I want to thank you and 
your wonderful people, your beautiful island of Guam. I've 
slept there many times and just have the most respect for the 
strategic position that you have for our great country in the 
Pacific Rim.
    Next of all, I think I really, truly believe the Defense 
Production Act--if we announced the Defense Production Act is 
what we're going to use in order to have the defense of our 
country and our economy and all of our allies it would give us 
the catalyst that's going to be needed for the Development 
Finance Corporation to show how determined we are to make sure 
that we're up and running as quickly as humanly possible, be 
able to extract and assist all of our friends around the world 
in the free world, if you will, to contribute toward this.
    It's going to be a total all in effort. It's not just one 
of us can do it. We cannot get up to speed quickly by ourselves 
without you and all of our friends around the world.
    That's what we have to rely on and that's really how we can 
protect your markets also with the trade, if you will, tariffs 
protecting so China doesn't come in and distort your markets 
that they've tried to do.
    We have watched how they've been very aggressive in that 
part of the world, and we're determined basically to defend and 
help you.
    I would say one more thing, too. Is there some way that--
when you think about if it wasn't for the ore that China gets 
from Australia right now what kind of a crimp would that put?
    What kind of a buy would they be on if we were able to--all 
the free world--consume Australia's ore so they wouldn't have 
to go to China for that market? That might be things we could 
do to really put a pinch on them, too.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you. Thank you, you all.
    Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Mrs. Kim.Thank you. I now recognize the representative from 
Rhode Island Mr. Amo.
    Mr. Amo. Thank you, Chairwoman Kim, and thank you to our 
witnesses for being here including the distinguished former 
senator. It's an honor to be with you.
    For those watching at home, critical minerals and their 
supply chains are, like the name suggests, critical to our 
national security and American domestic manufacturing 
industries. From cell phones to solar panels to our most 
sensitive defense technologies, we rely on critical minerals 
every day.
    But as you know, China is the dominant processor of 19 of 
the 20 minerals the International Energy Agency considers key 
minerals and China has 70 percent of the global processing 
capabilities for these minerals.
    Through export controls the CCP wields access to these 
minerals to advance their global policy goals like a guillotine 
over everyone's head.
    In December 2024, China banned the export of gallium, 
germanium, and antimony to the U.S. In February 2025 China 
further restricted exports of tungsten, tellurium, bismuth, 
indium, and other minerals, and in April 2025 China cracked 
down on the exports of seven heavy rare earth and magnets 
derived from them: dysprosium, gadolinium, lutetium, samarium, 
scandium, terbium, and so on.
    And now, you know, the fact of the matter is most 
Americans, the folks that we're talking to at home, have not 
heard these names since studying the periodic table and even 
then I'm not sure they stored them to memory in their high 
school science classes.
    But it's important to break this down for the American 
people. It's critical because of the semiconductor, 
telecommunication, defense, and renewable energy industries. 
People around the country need to know this critical impact.
    Thankfully, President Biden understood the importance of 
securing our critical mineral supply chains. Under his 
leadership the State Department worked with the Development 
Finance Corporation and our allies to ensure that American 
businesses were shielded from the CCP's market pressures.
    In 2022 we established the Mineral Security Partnership, 
the State Department program that was dedicated to accelerating 
the development of diverse critical mineral supply chains free 
from China's control.
    But we have a challenge at hand because the Trump 
administration has gone forward with reductions in force that 
can have an impact that undermines all of these efforts, this 
awareness that we do have in a bipartisan way to have access to 
critical minerals.
    And we saw just last Friday the State Department lose 
through their reduction in force and firing of 1,300 employees 
as a part of a plan to shrink that workforce in a way that is 
not thoughtful, and instead of working to secure our critical 
mineral supply chains Trump is firing experts and causing those 
remaining to be distracted by fear for their jobs instead of 
focusing on American interests, and it is a real distraction.
    So, Under Secretary Fernandez, you know, I'd love to hear 
from you how these reductions in force harm State's work with 
other Federal agencies like the DFC to help American businesses 
secure our supply chains and what should we be doing to work 
with DFC to continue to play a supporting role in securing 
critical mineral supply chains?
    Mr. Fernandez. Thank you for your question.
    We could talk for a long time about this and I'll be brief.
    This has got to be a bipartisan issue because it's a 
bipartisan problem. It's also an international problem. Our 
allies and partners understand that this is a problem, which is 
why we need a strategy.
    Part of that strategy has to be--has to include the DFC. 
The DFC was a very good partner in the Mineral Security 
Partnership. Why? Because funding is often the problem that we 
all need to crack.
    There are a number of changes in the DFC authorization 
that, in my eyes, would help the equity scoring, for example. 
They have--there's a penalty for investing in equity.
    The number of countries, the types of countries they can 
finance projects in upper middle income countries are a 
problem. Argentina and Chile have the world's largest deposits 
of lithium and, yet, the DFC can't work in those two countries.
    And so we have got to find a strategy that turns the DFC 
loose, that allows us to use all of the tools at our disposal, 
EXIM Bank and TBA as well, and I think that's what the MSP did 
and, frankly, we had very good cooperation from the DFC.
    Mr. Amo. Thank you. My time has expired so I'll yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. I now recognize the gentleman from Kentucky Mr. 
Barr for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you all. Thanks to our witnesses. Senator, 
good to see you again----
    Mr. Manchin. You, too.
    Mr. Barr [continuing]. my neighbor from West Virginia and I 
want to talk about West Virginia and Kentucky coal in a minute. 
But let's just frame the problem.
    Today, China accounts for 70 percent of global rare earth 
element mining, 92 percent of rare earth refining, and 90 
percent of rare earth magnet production.
    It controls 99 percent of global gallium refining, which is 
a key material for advanced microelectronics used in U.S. 
defense systems, and this is a real concern because, as you 
know, in April China imposed export restrictions on seven of 17 
rare earths, many of which--many of which are essential for 
U.S. defense platforms such as the F-35 fighter which contains 
920-plus pounds of rare earths per unit, Tomahawk cruise 
missiles, and joint direct attack munition smart bombs.
    U.S. defense firms such as Raytheon, Honeywell, Lockheed 
Martin face supply delays, rising costs, and potential 
production halts. So breaking China's choke hold on these 
critical mineral supply chains will require more domestic 
production.
    Senator Manchin, you know this well. The Department of 
Energy estimates that recoverable coal, coal ash, and coal 
waste in the United States contains between 11 and 17 million 
metric tons of rare earth elements.
    U.S. consumption last year was just 8,800 metric tons. So 
we're talking about a domestic resource of rare earths that 
contains over a thousand times our annual demand for rare 
earths.
    Given that scale, Senator Manchin, wouldn't it be a 
strategic failure not to include coal-based mineral recovery 
from West Virginia, Kentucky, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, across 
this great fruited plain as a core pillar of our national 
critical mineral policy?
    Mr. Manchin. Well, thank you, and I think both of our 
respective states, both of our universities, are working very 
closely on this now as far as extraction from our waste--from 
our coal finds--things of that sort, and also water coming from 
coal mines.
    All that stuff can be turned into a tremendous value for 
our country and we're looking at that too and the cost of that 
versus with some new mining. I just said earlier that I'm 
involved with a company called Ramaco, basically, who's coal 
mining.
    They're going to open a new coal mine in Wyoming, first one 
in 70 years, and with that in the bindings, as people know 
layers between the coal, there's an awful lot of critical 
minerals in that, too, which is a great opportunity for us.
    So I think in all of this we have to do everything that we 
can. The bottom line is is that we can't make it more difficult 
for companies in the U.S. through the permitting constraints 
that happen for us to do what we need to do.
    If we can get that accelerated that's going to help us 
tremendously on that and I think there's a lot of inroads being 
made.
    Mr. Barr. Yes, and I've introduced a bill that would help 
my constituent company you referred to, Ramaco, expedite the 
permitting there. I know you were a real leader in reforming 
Federal permitting laws but there--in the Senate but we--
there's more work to be done there.
    I do have a bill called the RESCUE Act which I would 
share--I would urge my colleagues to support which would use 
that Fast-41 streamlining process for--streamline permitting 
for rare earth extraction from coal. I think that's important.
    But also, Senator Manchin, speak to the potential of using 
the Defense Production Act. I don't know if you've thought 
about that--the Defense Production Act--to cut through all this 
red tape to allow for coal mining or extraction of rare earths 
from coal.
    Mr. Manchin. I definitely have been speaking about defense 
production. I think it's the one tool that shows the urgency 
that we have in our country to defend ourselves and be able to 
help our allies.
    The other thing is the permitting process. Congressman 
Westerman and I worked very, very hard and very close and got 
very close last year, right down to the final bell when the 
bell rang.
    There's a piece of legislation I think that you all could 
take and run with very quickly. We passed it in the Senate. It 
came out of our committee basically 15 to four the first time, 
a bipartisan overhaul working with Senator John Barrasso, our 
Republican and Democrat colleagues seeing the need for this.
    Hopefully, you all can take it and make some changes if you 
need, whatever would be helpful.
    Judicial reform was the big thing in permitting. The courts 
will hold you up no matter what you try to do. The courts can 
hold you up for infinity and just wear you out price wise.
    Mr. Barr. That's why we might need to cut through that with 
the Defense Production Act.
    Mr. Manchin. Well, I hope you can.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you for your leadership on that.
    Mr. Fannon, let me just ask you real quick. You answered 
Mr. Moylan's question well on the potency of DFC in alternative 
critical mineral supply chains.
    What about the Office of Strategic Capital at the 
Department of Defense also supplementing the catalytic 
opportunities for supply chain resiliency outside of the United 
States?
    Mr. Fannon. I think it's an incredible tool that hasn't 
really been utilized yet. I think it's time to get that tool 
out of the toolbox and start using it.
    I would also say one of the--the construct of the OSC is 
only--it's only debt. It only provides debt. I think that we 
talked about fixing the equity fix in the DFC.
    I would propose, respectfully, that you consider OSC have 
some equity authority as well. It makes all the sense in the 
world.
    There is a huge level of dry powder there and also they 
need help getting that organization up and running and really 
moving forward. But it's an amazing tool that needs to be used.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Barr. Thank you for your time. I yield back.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Montana Mr. Downing for 
5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for 
allowing me to waive into this hearing on such an important 
topic, and thank you for the--to the witnesses for being here.
    In my home district I've got central and eastern Montana. 
You know, we have seen firsthand the ability of American 
adversaries to dominate and manipulate critical minerals 
markets.
    You know, the Stillwater Mine in Stillwater County, 
Montana, is the United States' only platinum and palladium mine 
and has been the victim of deliberate market manipulation by 
Russia.
    Russia's dumping of cheap minerals into the international 
market forced the Sibanye-Stillwater--he owners of the mine to 
scale back its operations and lay off 700 well-paid workers at 
the end of last year. Obviously, it's had an incredible impact 
on my district in those counties.
    So China employs similar manipulative tactics to an even 
greater degree in order to promote dependence and freeze out 
competition.
    So I'm going to start with Mr. Fannon. In your testimony 
you discuss how China will eagerly manipulate the global 
critical minerals market by restricting supplies on one hand 
and dumping them later to kill off growing competition.
    Can you elaborate on the degree to which global market 
manipulation is part of China's overall critical mineral 
strategy?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, thank you for the question. This is a play 
book that they have used and deployed multiple times, really, 
since 2010 when they first banned the export of rare earths.
    At the time, President Obama initiated a WTO challenge 
against China. It took years for that case to go through the 
WTO process. In the interim period China dumped material onto 
the market, crashed prices, and sent the one company--rare 
earth company into bankruptcy.
    A few years ago, China--Xi Jinping said he didn't like the 
way cobalt was being priced and announced he was going to look 
into that.
    The one cobalt mine in the development project in the State 
of Idaho that was starting to ramp up the U.S. Government was 
an investor in announced that they were going into care and 
maintenance because the prices crashed.
    Just the signal that China has, because it's not just that 
they're the biggest producer. It's also important to recognize 
they're also the largest purchaser.
    Mr. Downing. Right.
    Mr. Fannon. So they're working it on both sides of the 
ledger, which gives them massive, massive pricing power and it 
goes back to this price discovery challenge we have with China.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    With regard to combating Russian dumping, I introduced the 
Stop Russian Market Manipulation Act. It's a bill to ban the 
importation of platinum and palladium from Russia.
    And I'll go to the whole panel on this one. What steps can 
Congress take in order to combat similar efforts by Chinese 
producers to dominate the international market and crush 
American competition?
    Mr. Manchin. So trade and tariffs are the thing I think 
which--it's your tool and the tool we have in our great 
country, basically.
    Tariffs should be used as an incentive and a protection, 
protection, basically, of your building blocks and we talked 
about this earlier. The building blocks--we have to have what 
you're producing in Montana. We have to have that. The free 
world has to have that.
    But unless you're protected against the unfair practices of 
China and countries of concern, whether it be Russia, China, 
North Korea, Iran, they're never going to have our interests. 
They're never going to have our view.
    And with that you have to protect against them coming in 
and distorting our markets. That's where the tariffs can be 
used to protect building blocks.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. Any further comments?
    Mr. Fannon?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I would just--I would just say I would 
look to--we could shift the presumption. I think Congress 
already made a pretty important passed legislation in the 
Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, which created a presumption 
that if material--something's being produced in Xinjiang region 
it was presumed to be tainted and it requires Chinese suppliers 
to disclose where they're--their methods.
    I think we could apply that thinking into the critical 
minerals debate. You don't have to do anything, just ask them 
to start to disclose.
    U.S. mining companies are remarkably transparent and they 
disclose all this stuff all the time in response to government, 
in response to the NGO community, and other interested 
stakeholders. Why aren't we asking the Chinese to do the same 
thing?
    Thank you.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. Mr. Fernandez?
    Mr. Fernandez. Thank you.
    As I mentioned earlier, this is what a monopolist does. It 
floods the market. It cuts out the competitors. It's not just 
only in Montana but Australian mines have closed. Mines 
throughout the world have closed because of Chinese oversupply.
    I think tariffs are a tool. I would caution the overuse of 
tariffs. If we don't have the minerals in our country to 
replace those then it doesn't do us any good. But in the case 
of minerals that we do have I think tariffs are one of the 
tools that we have in our toolbox.
    Mr. Downing. Well, thank you. I've got a lot more but, 
unfortunately, I've run out of time.
    So Madam Chair, I yield.
    Mrs. Kim.Thank you. We have some time for a second round of 
questioning if the witnesses are OK to stay with us a little 
longer.
    Great. So let me first start with followup questions from 
what we were discussing earlier regarding the use of the 
Defense Production Act.
    I know, Senator, you just mentioned that you had 
legislation in the Senate. I would love to take a look at it 
because I also serve on the House Financial Services Committee 
Subcommittee on National Security and Illicit Finance and we 
are trying to work for a modernized DPA.
    So your input today as well as giving us some suggestions 
and recommendations on that regard is greatly appreciated.
    So if you want to just talk about that, just quickly.
    Mr. Manchin. Well, Madam Chair, first of all, I have two 
other articles I'd like to present for the consideration of the 
committee which gives a breakdown on the background of critical 
minerals and mineral sectors, and also the partners' critical 
minerals supply chain by country, the largest producers outside 
of China so we know we can get these two things. I think they'd 
be helpful.
    We'll share also with you, as we talked about, the 
workforce, what we have done in that, and also the comparison 
we have done with some other bills.
    Happy to share all that with you. I'll make sure that Peter 
back here gets it to you, OK, to----
    Mrs. Kim.Thank you very much. Thank you.
    And then as we are talking about breaking the chokehold on 
China's dominance on critical minerals, rare earth elements, 
mining, producing, manufacturing, we just recently saw the 
announcement coming from the administration that the Defense 
Department will be the largest shareholder of our--probably the 
biggest rare earth producer, MP Materials.
    So I just wanted you to comment on that a little bit 
because we also saw this morning Amazon--no, Apple, its big 
investment in the field as well.
    So can you, Mr. Fannon, talk about what we can learn from 
this deal?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, thank you. I would say that this deal is 
absolutely transformative in terms of the boldness and the 
scope, given that it's not just an investment but also over 
time off take and also price security, I would say.
    The Apple point is--I saw that announcement too where Apple 
is going to invest as well because they want these magnets, 
which is critical to their business. And so what I think that 
the lesson here is there's a role for the U.S. Government as an 
investor in these projects, first, whether in the United States 
or internationally.
    But also the lesson is that if there's an alternative 
supply chain then U.S. companies will source from it. The move 
by the Defense Department is answering the chicken or egg 
problem, I would say, and so now we see a major investor coming 
in.
    I think that this is a model, whether it's the Defense 
Department, the DFC, any other variety of other investors from 
the U.S. side. But it's that derisking where you'll see those 
off takes and other co-investments. And so I think it's 
absolutely transformative.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Manchin. Madam Chair, if I could say one thing.
    Mrs. Kim. Yes, go ahead.
    Mr. Manchin. I think basically with the Federal Government, 
as you saw, made the announcement last week into MP which is 
what it's about, when you see an off take coming to the Federal 
Government guaranteed by we're going to be needing this product 
and we're only going to buy it from an American producer 
changed the whole dynamic and that allowed Apple and other 
people with large sums of money that can invest, knowing it's 
going to be protected and basically used within our own system.
    Mrs. Kim. Got it.
    Well, we also, I mean, we--go ahead. Sorry about that, Mr. 
Fernandez.
    Mr. Fernandez. Just quickly.
    There are a couple of successful examples of the DPA being 
used in Canada for critical minerals and that was done during 
the Biden administration. I would suggest you look at that. 
Those were successful.
    Also, the--one of the beauties of the--of a deal with MP is 
that it actually--in the past what we have done is we 
privatized the gains and socialized the losses.
    What this does is it actually makes the U.S. Government a 
partner in the success and I would--and I would look at that as 
an example, going forward. It's not going to replace the 
private sector but it certainly can be an early stage investor.
    Mrs. Kim. Sure. Well, thank you so much, all of you, for 
that.
    Again, during our discussion we also talked about the role 
of DFC playing a bigger role in this space. So our subcommittee 
is also charged with reauthorizing DFC this--before this fall 
and we hope to do this soon.
    So we are looking at equity fix. We are also looking at 
expanding the countries that we can utilize our DFC in.
    So if you can talk about how that can be important tool, 
going forward. Obviously, domestic production is critically 
needed. We all established that. But we also need to work with 
our allies and partners in the region.
    So how can this be a critical tool in our also diplomatic 
toolkit? Go ahead, Mr. Fernandez.
    Mr. Fernandez. If I may.
    I've already talked about the need to fix the equity issue 
and also the need to expand the number of countries. Another--
something we did as part of the Mineral Security Partnership is 
we created a finance network and it is--so I would urge the DFC 
as well as EXIM and others to spend more time with their--with 
their counterparts in other countries.
    Why? Sometimes they can band together to derisk some of 
these projects but also just by sharing projects. There may be 
a project that the DFC is not interested in and you'd be 
surprised how often they wouldn't talk to their counterparts 
because they might be competitors.
    And so I would urge more involvement in terms of just 
exchanging projects, which is what the private sector does 
often.
    Mrs. Kim. I know my time is up and I want to turn it over 
to my ranking member to ask more questions but, hopefully, we 
can continue that conversation about some of the projects that 
our private sector can be encouraged and enticed to invest in 
utilizing our tools like DFC and so forth.
    Go ahead.
    Mr. Manchin. Madam Chair, one final thing.
    Access to capital is the mother's milk of production. 
Without capital they can't produce or they won't come to 
fruition.
    So that's what--access to capital in every way, shape and 
form is going to make the difference whether we produce in time 
or we don't.
    Mrs. Kim. Thank you.
    Ranking Member?
    Mr. Bera. And just for those watching at home, antimony is 
atomic number 51 on the periodic table with a symbol of SB. 
Just in case I ever make it on ``Jeopardy'' that's important 
information.
    I'm old enough to remember the energy crisis of the 1970's, 
just the long lines of folks waiting to fill up their cars with 
gasoline, and we responded as a Nation, right?
    We created the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, which has been 
used now over the last few decades to smooth out markets to 
address this.
    You know, we're doing the same in APIs. You know, 
Representative Moskowitz talked about COVID and, you know, we 
realized very quickly our pharmaceutical industry was overly 
dependent in this case, again, on the PRC for those APIs.
    We do have a national defense stockpile for rare earths and 
critical minerals that, again, has been alluded to. It's 
woefully inadequate at this juncture. Again, I'm not a 
complicated person but if prices are at historic lows it would 
seem to me that now would be the time for us to actually be 
gobbling up that market and creating that national stockpile.
    Maybe, Under Secretary Fernandez, you were in an 
administration and, again, it doesn't seem like rocket science. 
And then maybe Senator Manchin, since you're a fellow 
legislator, why is it that we seem to be lethargic in terms of 
recognize--we know the risk.
    It's not a partisan issue. What's holding us back from 
actually very intentionally going in and creating the 
stockpile?
    Mr. Fernandez. Well, I remember talking about it. Frankly, 
there was a lot of talk but not a lot of action. The funding is 
an issue and also I think we have been slow to realize the 
vulnerability.
    But I do think your suggestion that we consider it is one 
that the time is now because, you know, when you're as far 
behind as we are you need all hands on deck.
    You need everyone on board, and unless we move quickly, 
unless we do what, for example, the senator just mentioned in 
terms of permitting, takes us 10 to 20 years to build a mine.
    We can't continue operating that way. So it's all of the 
above and all hands on deck.
    Mr. Manchin. I think timing--I think, Congressman Bera, 
timing is the thing and uncertainty is the cost that no one can 
factor in.
    Those are the two things that really--permitting, like you 
said, from that standpoint the people jumping in, a lot of 
people litigation--they know they're going through litigation. 
You know, we're a litigious type of mentality, good in certain 
areas for protection but also overdone in so many areas that 
stymies it.
    Mr. Bera. Yes. So there's nothing that prevents us from 
doing both of these things, right? Because we can build the 
stockpile immediately if we were to appropriate the right 
resources and funds, which it sounds like we really ought to 
do, and then opening the mines.
    Doing the permitting reform will take a little bit longer 
but, you know, earlier in this Congress in a bipartisan way we 
passed the Fix Our Forests Act.
    Now, not necessarily the same thing but it was bipartisan. 
You know, a lot of us as Democrats got tired of watching our 
forests burn, certainly in California. It has NEPA reforms in 
there, et cetera.
    So we can do permitting reforms. You know, again, might be 
easier under a Republican administration.
    Mr. Manchin. We have the urgency now that we had with that, 
right now.
    Mr. Bera. Absolutely. Again, what I would urge my 
Republican colleagues to do is now is the time. I'm not asking 
to meet at the 50-yard line.
    We're not--we don't have the White House. We don't have the 
majorities in the Senate or the House. But don't take us to the 
end zone. Like, we can meet at the 35-yard line. We can do this 
if we're willing to negotiate.
    And, Senator Manchin, you did lead some of these efforts in 
the Senate. So maybe that is the starting point.
    Mr. Manchin. We have got some--yes, we have some good--
we're going to share that with you all what we had done and 
what we have come close to doing.
    Mr. Bera. Yes, and we ought to do it.
    Mr. Fannon, do you want to add anything on the petroleum 
reserves or the defense stockpile or permitting reform?
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I think the--I think it's important to 
acknowledge the administration has started to talk about 
permitting reform. It has some executive orders to try to 
shorten some of these time horizons.
    I think the point about--you made about the forests is a 
good one. You decided to pass this legislation and move this 
bill--bipartisan bill because you saw a crisis, and the crisis 
was real. It was material. It was--you know, the smoke was 
around your house. People acted.
    I think we need to--this goes back to an earlier comment. 
This is a political problem. How do we create that sense of 
urgency with the American people that the smoke is around the 
house to create that move and I think once you do that then 
we'll see some action. I think we're starting that now.
    Mr. Bera. Right. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Moylan.
    [Presiding.] Thank you.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Sherman from 
California for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Sherman. China controls most of this market. Is that 
because China is uniquely blessed by ores of all these rare 
earth minerals or is that just because China decades ago 
decided to do the mining, which is difficult, and the 
processing, which I believe is even more difficult?
    I'll ask any of the witnesses.
    Mr. Manchin. Let me just say, if I can, very quickly 
everything you just said was correct. They did something nobody 
else wanted to do, and if you won't do it in your own backyard 
don't expect someone else to do it.
    China took--filled the void and they saw it back when we 
got into the WTO in the 1990's and they went afterward and they 
captured some markets and basically hold it hostage and they've 
done it extremely, extremely efficient.
    Mr. Sherman. But it's--but other countries in the world 
have the ore deposits and could have done it. China did it.
    Mr. Manchin. China put the resources to it.
    Mr. Sherman. Got you.
    Mr. Manchin. They put the money to it.
    Mr. Sherman. There are those who advocate us--that America 
should have a strategic crypto currency.
    What? I guess one of our witnesses needed to leave.
    A crypto currency reserve, which seems bizarre. I've never 
heard of a short of crypto currency. As a matter of fact, if 
you want to get some Mongoose Coin or some Skibidi Toilet Coin 
that's available to you right away as are all the currencies.
    Do we have a rare earth minerals strategic reserve of any 
significance?
    Mr. Fannon. We have a defense reserve which is woefully 
underfunded and not terribly well stocked wherein there's some 
critical minerals I don't have insight into what the volume is.
    Mr. Sherman. And that's not designed to support our 
economy. That's just designed to allow us to make weapons that 
we might not otherwise----
    Mr. Fannon. It's still for defense.
    Mr. Sherman. And I'd point out we have a Strategic 
Petroleum Reserve that we should be refilling now because oil 
is under $70 in both administrations. Particularly the prior 
ones said that they would refill the reserve when oil went 
below $70 and that hasn't been done. But we continue to hold 
over $10 billion worth of crypto currency for reasons I have 
yet to figure out.
    China wants us to give them--sell them the most advanced 
chips. Nvidia is apparently going to be allowed to do that. To 
what extent did they get that incredible concession from us 
because otherwise they wouldn't sell us the rare earth 
minerals?
    Was that their big--their big stick?
    Mr. Fernandez. I'm not going to--I have no inside 
information on that one but I will say that its dominance--
China's dominance of critical minerals is a weapon and they 
weaponize it and they're good at it.
    Mr. Sherman. What other countries are moving toward 
developing rare earth minerals in a major way?
    Mr. Fannon. Other--Australia is a big--is very much in the 
game. The Japanese are one of the leaders in some of the 
refining and magnet production as well.
    There's actually joint development programs with those 
three countries already in a company or two. But those would 
be----
    Mr. Sherman. Now, China has lower labor costs than us and 
most of those other countries. Is a low labor cost critically 
important to being able to be competitive in this business?
    Mr. Fannon. I think when we talked about the rare earths 
it's more than just the labor. It's also the cost of the 
capital to run the plants, and I think someone has already 
alluded to the way in which they do it is a manner that would 
be objectionable in the United States or in most other Western 
countries.
    Mr. Sherman. What would be objectionable in the----
    Mr. Fannon. The way in the way in which they refine the 
rare earths. It's toxic.
    Mr. Sherman. Oh, you're talking about the local 
environmental impact?
    Mr. Fannon. Correct. Correct.
    Mr. Sherman. If you spend a bit more money can you refine 
these minerals and still meet the community standards we expect 
in America?
    Mr. Fannon. For sure, yes. That's--I think the announcement 
that was talked about earlier MP--the MP announcement--that's 
what they're seeking to do. There are other companies that are 
doing it as well.
    Mr. Sherman. Thank you.
    Mr. Fernandez. Of course we can. I mean, it's--it goes back 
to capital and the fact that the PRC has not--doesn't have the 
same standards that we do--environmental standards, labor 
standards.
    But that's an opportunity. That's why countries follow our 
record.
    Mr. Sherman. We certainly have capital. Much of it we bring 
in from China.
    And I'm going to yield back 10 seconds.
    Mr. Manchin. If I can just say one thing to you.
    Mr. Sherman. Yes, go ahead.
    Mr. Manchin. As far as you have the United States, you have 
Canada, and you have Australia, three main caches of where we 
know we have critical minerals we all need, then you have the 
ability of Japan to do the refining and South Korea is coming 
on strong, too.
    So these are all allies of ours in the free world. It's 
something we should be building an alliance with.
    Mr. Sherman. Thank you.
    Mr. Moylan. Thank you.
    The chair now recognizes Rep. Bera.
    Mr. Bera. I just want to ask a quick followup question.
    Absolutely, we can do this. You know, we have talked to the 
Australians a lot about it. We recognize that our price point, 
you know, given the environmental standards and everything 
else, is going to be a little bit higher than where China is.
    We also recognize that China--you know, Under Secretary 
Fernandez, you've talked about the monopolistic power. I think 
what I worry a little bit about is, you know, this is 
tangential but shareholder activism, right?
    There's tremendous pressure on boardrooms and companies for 
earnings--quarterly earnings--and it's proven extremely 
difficult for us to move some of our companies that even know 
the vulnerabilities because there is going to be a short-term 
cost here that will impact their quarterly earnings.
    And we don't have to get into it but I'd just put that one 
out there. That is something that we actually have to also 
think about is the long-term investments that, you know, give 
them long-term profitability as opposed to really the short-
term investments that drive some of these decisions to continue 
staying invested in China or making further investments in 
China even when they know the long-term vulnerabilities are 
there.
    So I don't--do you want to talk about that?
    Mr. Manchin. It's become the American way, which is not 
beneficial for us right now. Basically, everything is return on 
investment.
    Shareholders demand. It makes very, very bad decisions and 
the bottom line is pay me now or pay me later, and right now 
we're paying the price.
    And if we don't get in the game pretty quick and we don't 
look past the bottom line right now, if we'd have done that 
during World War II we'd have never won it and we're in that 
same situation right now.
    It's a life or death matter for the 21st century, our 
children and grandchildren. So we're either going to get 
involved, commit ourselves to making us independent and making 
our supply chain intertwined. If not, God help us.
    Mr. Fernandez. But it's also, I think, a role that 
government should play, and you're right that there is a short-
term view. But that's where government support can become 
involved to encourage a longer-term view.
    If you start from the premise that by 2035, according to 
most experts lithium prices will recover then you're looking at 
a short-term problem and then you need to find a way for--to 
help our companies and our partner countries' companies 
survive.
    And so that's an opportunity and--but you're right, we do 
have a--if we just let the market run the show the PRC will 
dominate. We have got to find a way of changing that debate.
    Mr. Fannon. Yes, I would just say that the shareholder 
issue is--of course, plays both ways. It's also one of the 
reasons why it's--some of the--why the mining industry in the 
United States in particular has--and a lot of other places has 
died down and why the best in class miners are reluctant to go 
to many emerging markets because of--there's a fear of 
shareholder activism.
    There's a fear of going into certain countries because 
there's a perceived--there's a perceived view that political 
risk. There may have been a history.
    Maybe it's there. But they don't go there and so what--that 
simply leaves those emerging markets susceptible to Chinese 
opaque practices, which is one of the reasons why we're where 
we are.
    So I think--I think it goes back to the earlier discussion 
about getting the American people to understand where things 
come from and how and differentiate those.
    Mr. Moylan. OK. With that, I thank the witnesses for their 
valuable testimony and the members for their questions.
    The members of this subcommittee may have some additional 
questions for the witnesses and we ask you to respond to these 
in writing.
    Pursuant to committee rules, all members may have 5 days to 
submit statements, questions, and extraneous materials for the 
record, subject to the length and limitations.
    So without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:47 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]


                                APPENDIX

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