[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                  EXPANDING CHOICE AND INCREASING SUPPLY: 
                    HOUSING INNOVATION IN AMERICA
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE

                                 OF THE

                    COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 14, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-22

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       

                            www.govinfo.gov
                            
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-502 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2026              
          
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                 HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES

                    FRENCH HILL, Arkansas, Chairman

BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan, Vice        MAXINE WATERS, California, Ranking 
    Chairman                             Member
FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas, Vice 
PETE SESSIONS, Texas                     Ranking Member
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  BRAD SHERMAN, California
ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas                GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota                 DAVID SCOTT, Georgia
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                AL GREEN, Texas
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin               JAMES A. HIMES, Connecticut
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    Carolina                         JOYCE BEATTY, Ohio
MARLIN STUTZMAN, Indiana             JUAN VARGAS, California
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         JOSH GOTTHEIMER, New Jersey
DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania          VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas
YOUNG KIM, California                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois
BYRON DONALDS, Florida               AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          RITCHIE TORRES, New York
MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska                 NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas             CLEO FIELDS, Louisiana
ANDREW OGLES, Tennessee              JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
ZACHARY NUNN, Iowa                   SAM LICCARDO, California
LISA MCCLAIN, Michigan
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
TROY DOWNING, Montana
MIKE HARIDOPOLOS, Florida
TIM MOORE, North Carolina

                      Ben Johnson, Staff Director

                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE

                     MIKE FLOOD, Nebraska, Chairman

MONICA DE LA CRUZ, Texas, Vice       EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri, Ranking 
    Chairwoman                           Member
JOHN W. ROSE, Tennessee              NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York
WILLIAM R. TIMMONS, IV, South        RASHIDA TLAIB, Michigan
    Carolina                         AYANNA PRESSLEY, Massachusetts
RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina         RITCHIE TORRES, New York
ANDREW R. GARBARINO, New York        SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          NIKEMA WILLIAMS, Georgia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             BRITTANY PETTERSEN, Colorado
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida               JANELLE BYNUM, Oregon
TROY DOWNING, Montana
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                              May 14, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

Hon. Mike Flood, Chairman of the Subcommittee on Housing and 
  Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Nebraska.................     1
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Housing and Insurance, a U.S. Representative from Missouri.....     2

                               STATEMENTS

Hon. French Hill, Chairman of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from Arkansas..................     4
Hon. Maxine Waters, Ranking Member of the Committee on Financial 
  Services, a U.S. Representative from California................     4

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Bill Boor, President and Chief Executive Officer, Cavco 
  Industries, Testifying on behalf of the Manufactured Housing 
  Institute (MHI) as Chairman of the Board.......................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
Mr. Eric Schaefer, Chief Business Development Officer, Fading 
  West...........................................................    20
    Prepared statement...........................................    22
Dr. Andrew P. McCoy, PH.D., Director of the Virginia Center for 
  Housing Research (VCHR), Professor in the Department of 
  Building Construction, and Associate Director of the Myers 
  Lawson School of Construction (MLSoC), Virginia Tech University    30
    Prepared statement...........................................    32
Mr. Colten Lewis Fleu, Senior Attorney, Mountain State Justice, 
  Inc............................................................    38
    Prepared statement...........................................    40

                                APPENDIX

                   MATERIAL SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Hon. Mike Flood:
    Rural Voices for Conservation Coalition (RVCC)...............    80
Hon. Maxine Waters:
    The Private Equity Stakeholder Project (PESP)................    82
    Next Step Network............................................   105
Hon. Sam Liccardo:
    Cavco Industries.............................................   110
The Lincoln Institute for Land Policy............................   112

                 RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD

Written responses to questions for the record from Mr. Bill Boor
    Representative Emanuel Cleaver...............................   115
    Representative Maxine Waters.................................   118
Written responses to questions for the record from Mr. Colten 
  Lewis Fleu
    Representative Emanuel Cleaver...............................   121
    Representative Maxine Waters.................................   123
Written responses to questions for the record from Dr. Andrew P. 
  McCoy
    Representative Maxine Waters.................................   124

                              LEGISLATION

H.R. ----, a bill to require approval from the Secretary of 
  Housing and Urban Development for any Federal manufactured home 
  and safety standards, and for other purposes...................   125
H.R. ----, the Expansion of Attainable Homeownership Through 
  Manufactured Housing Act of 2025...............................   128

 
                    EXPANDING CHOICE AND INCREASING
                 SUPPLY: HOUSING INNOVATION IN AMERICA

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, May 14, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
             Subcommittee on Housing and Insurance,
                           Committee on Financial Services,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m., in 
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mike Flood 
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Flood, Hill, Rose, Timmons, 
Garbarino, Fitzgerald, Lawler, De La Cruz, Salazar, Downing, 
Cleaver, Waters, Velazquez, Tlaib, Pressley, Torres, Garcia, 
Williams of Georgia, and Bynum.
    Also present: Representative Liccardo.
    Chairman Flood. Well, good morning, everybody. I am pleased 
to call to order the Housing and Insurance Subcommittee.
    Without objection, the chair is authorized to call a recess 
of the subcommittee at any time.
    The title of today's hearing is, ``Expanding Choice and 
Increasing Supply: Housing Innovation in America.''
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit extraneous materials to the chair for inclusion in 
the record.
    I will now recognize myself for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

     OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE FLOOD, CHAIRMAN OF THE 
 SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE 
                         FROM NEBRASKA

    First and foremost, I would like to thank all of our 
witnesses for being with us today, and I very much look forward 
to hearing your testimony on the topic of innovation in 
housing. In our March hearing, we examined the broader issue of 
housing supply and its shortage. That problem takes many forms, 
but one aspect that I have observed in my district is an 
absence of what is referred to as ``workforce housing.''
    According to data from the National Association of Home 
Builders, the median cost of constructing a new single-family 
home in 2024 was $428,215. For many Americans, a home built at 
that cost is simply not affordable. We have government programs 
that focus on housing subsidies for low-and very low-income 
people. We have market rate developments that are able to meet 
some of the demand for higher income people. What we need is 
housing that can meet the needs of all the people that fall 
somewhere in between those two worlds.
    Maybe it is someone who has been working in a factory for 
years, saving up so that they can make the transition from 
renting to owning a home. Maybe it is a young person that is 
new to the workforce and dreams of financial stability and 
freedom that comes from having a place to call your own. 
Whatever their situation, I am sure all of us have seen the 
dire need for housing supply that meets the needs of this 
population in all of our districts. I know some of you may look 
at this problem and clamor for greater subsidies or more market 
intervention by the Federal Government, but the reality is we 
do not need more subsidies. We just need more homes at prices 
people can afford. In this hearing, we will examine how 
different building technology and home types can contribute to 
a solution that meets the demand from this population. Whether 
it is manufactured homes, modular homes, or homes constructed 
using 3D printing, we need to explore all the options out there 
that can get housing built that is affordable to more 
Americans.
    In addition to better understanding how these technologies 
work and the potential savings they may provide, I hope this 
hearing will give us an opportunity to explore what barriers 
can become a hindrance to manufactured housing and modular 
housing development across the country. Manufactured housing 
is, by definition, built to a Housing and Urban Development 
(HUD) code, and, as a result, manufactured housing issues go 
directly through this committee's jurisdiction. Two bills 
noticed for this hearing specifically address current barriers 
to greater adoption of manufactured housing across the country. 
Number one, Congressman John Rose's expansion of attainable 
homeownership through the Manufactured Housing Act would remove 
the requirement that manufactured homes be built on a permanent 
chassis. Number two, I have a draft bill notice to the hearing 
that would give HUD the authority to reject or approve 
manufacturing standards proposed by other regulators affecting 
manufactured homes.
    These proposals could go a long way toward removing some of 
the Federal barriers that prevent greater utilization of 
manufactured homes. However, additional barriers exist that are 
worth exploring further. Zoning and land use policies at the 
State and local level, challenges with financing mortgages, and 
a general lack of understanding of these housing types can all 
contribute to challenges in their utilization in areas across 
the country. I am excited to dig deeper into each of these 
issues today, and I look forward to our witnesses' testimony.
    The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the 
subcommittee, Mr. Cleaver, for 4 minutes for an opening 
statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. EMANUEL CLEAVER, RANKING MEMBER OF 
       THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HOUSING AND INSURANCE, A U.S. 
                  REPRESENTATIVE FROM MISSOURI

    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
calling this hearing.
    The United States faces a severe housing shortage. In fact, 
it may well be our number one domestic issue. Since the year 
2000, growth in housing demand has far exceeded growth in 
housing supply. Housing costs have increased faster than 
household income, and access to affordable housing and 
homeownership options for American families has decreased. 
Underproduction of housing impacts every corner of the Nation. 
This also includes rural areas and smaller cities who need 
affordable housing to attract businesses and ensure that 
residents can live affordably. The combination of a national 
supply shortage and the escalating cost of home construction is 
raising awareness of new construction processes, materials, and 
technologies that can deliver housing in an affordable way. I 
support housing that is safe, I support housing that is decent, 
and I support housing that is affordable. Safe, decent and 
affordable housing, by nature, includes basic resident 
protections to ensure that housing does not become unsafe, 
indecent, and radically unaffordable.
    One example of housing innovation under consideration today 
is manufactured housing. I have spoken with the Manufactured 
Housing Institute, and I am very, very interested in how we can 
work together to expand safe, decent, and affordable housing 
options that protect residents. More than 20 million Americans 
live in manufactured housing. Manufactured housing is typically 
used by low-income families, seniors on limited incomes, people 
with disabilities, and those living in rural areas and small 
towns. The next generation of manufactured housing is more 
affordable. It is faster to construct, and it can be built to 
be energy efficient with little waste due to factory precision.
    There is value in reducing barriers to the adoption of many 
forms of affordable housing innovation in a responsible way. 
That includes in urban areas, like Kansas City, Missouri, which 
I represent, and like Little Rock, represented by the chair of 
this committee. Let me be clear, President Trump has put 
forward a skinny budget that would defund Federal housing 
programs and threaten millions of Americans with housing 
instability in the middle of a housing crisis. No amount of 
innovation will offset the impact of the President's skinny 
budget if implemented or harmful executive actions. It is not a 
skinny budget. It is a starvation budget.
    The irony is that Congress is incoherently discussing how 
to increase the affordable housing supply while discussing the 
elimination of key housing programs. This includes a 44 percent 
cut--44 percent cut--to HUD, including programs that directly 
support the adoption of housing innovation and supply. 
Additionally, tariffs, I agree with the Wall Street Journal, 
make building all types of housing more expensive. Democrats 
will continue to defend Federal programs and put forward 
solutions to the housing crisis. Senator Warren, Senator 
Warnock, and I have introduced the American Housing and 
Economic Mobility Act, which would build nearly 3 million new 
housing units.
    I believe it is also in the best interest of the country to 
find bipartisan agreement where possible, and I have 
appreciated the engagement of the chair of this legislation on 
a bipartisan interest. I look forward to today's hearing. Thank 
you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. The chair recognizes the chairman of the 
full committee, Mr. Hill, for 1 minute.

  STATEMENT OF HON. FRENCH HILL, CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON 
    FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM ARKANSAS

    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Chairman Flood. It is no secret 
that parts of America are facing severe housing supply 
challenges. Recent estimates place this shortfall ranging from 
2.3 to nearly 7 million housing units, which has contributed to 
a sharp increase in home prices. Specifically, in my home town 
of Little Rock, the median home price is up 11 percent just 
over the last year. This rapid price increase, combined with 
inflation's impact on financing costs, is putting homeownership 
out of reach for many hardworking American families, and that 
is what makes Chairman Flood's hearing today so important. We 
have got an opportunity to explore solutions to these housing 
challenges and provide consumers more choice. By embracing 
innovative housing solutions and removing barriers to outdated 
regulations, land use restrictions, and other financial 
barriers, we can make a difference. I thank Chairman Flood, 
Ranking Member Cleaver for their leadership on this issue. I 
look forward to our panel today, and I yield back the balance 
of my time.
    Chairman Flood. The chair now recognizes the ranking member 
of the full committee, Ms. Waters, for 1 minute.

    STATEMENT OF HON. MAXINE WATERS, RANKING MEMBER OF THE 
  COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Families 
across America are reeling from our growing housing and 
homelessness crisis, so it is very important we discuss 
expanding affordable housing through manufactured housing, and 
I want to thank Mr. Cleaver for his leadership and the work 
that he has been doing on this issue, but as usual, Republicans 
are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They say they 
want affordable housing but support Trump's proposed budget 
that would cut $26 billion in rental assistance programs and 
defund key Federal housing programs that keep families in 
affordable housing. Meanwhile, new homes are projected to be 
$11,000 more expensive with Trump's dumb tariffs.
    If Republicans are serious, Democrats are ready to work on 
building affordable manufactured housing that is climate 
resilient and shielded from predatory private investors. We are 
also ready to advance real solutions like my bill, the Housing 
Crisis Response Act, which would invest 150 billion to end the 
housing crisis for good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, 
Mr. Cleaver.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady----
    Ms. Waters. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady yields back. Good morning to 
everyone. Today, we welcome the testimony of Mr. Bill Boor, 
President and CEO of Cavco Industries, and Chairman of the 
Manufactured Housing Institute. Mr. Eric Schaefer is with us 
today, Chief Business Development Officer of Fading West; 
Doctor Andrew P. McCoy, the Director of the Virginia Center for 
Housing Research, Professor in the Department of Building 
Construction, and Associate Director of the Myers Lawson School 
of Construction at Virginia Tech. We also welcome today Mr. 
Colten Lewis Fleu, Senior Attorney at Mountain State Justice, 
Incorporated.
    We thank each of you for taking the time to be here. Each 
of you will be recognized for 5 minutes to give an oral 
presentation of your testimony. Without objection, your written 
statements will be made part of the record.
    Mr. Boor, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
oral remarks.

STATEMENT OF BILL BOOR, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, 
  CAVCO INDUSTRIES, TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF THE MANUFACTURED 
           HOUSING INSTITUTE AS CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD

    Mr. Boor. Thank you, Chairman Flood, Ranking Member 
Cleaver, and members of the subcommittee. I am Bill Boor, CEO 
of Cavco Industries. We are the third largest U.S. producer of 
factory-built homes. Last year, we built nearly 20,000 homes in 
31 factories. We have 79 retail stores, a mortgage lending 
company, and an insurance company, all focused on manufactured 
housing. I also serve as Chairman of the Board of the 
Manufactured Housing Institute, the national trade association 
representing all segments of our industry.
    Manufactured housing is the most affordable path to 
homeownership for millions of Americans. Our homes are built to 
a Federal building code that ensures quality, safety, and 
weather resiliency. This year, our industry expects to build 
over 100,000 homes, accounting for 10 percent of all new 
single-family home starts. These homes are built by 36 American 
companies and delivered nationwide. This committee can help us 
keep costs low, encourage innovation, and expand financing 
options. My testimony today focuses on actionable steps 
Congress can take to increase the supply of affordable housing, 
and that is without taxpayer subsidies.
    First, clarify HUD's authority as sole regulator of 
manufactured housing. For over 50 years, HUD has been the sole 
Federal regulator of manufactured home design, construction, 
and installation, ensuring consistent, performance-based 
national standards that prioritize quality, safety, durability, 
and affordability. As the primary example of confusion created 
by a lack of regulatory clarity, the Department of Energy, 
under a 2007 law, attempted to impose energy standards on 
manufactured housing without recognizing how our homes are 
built in a factory and transported to site. The result, if 
implemented, would be a conflicting set of energy standards 
that undermine both HUD's role and housing affordability. Our 
industry has a proven track record of improving energy 
efficiency and is committed to continued progress, but that 
progress must come through HUD's established regulatory 
framework. Congress should pass legislation to reaffirm HUD's 
sole authority over all Federal construction standards for 
manufactured homes.
    Relatedly, HUD and Congress should work to overcome local 
zoning and regulatory barriers to manufactured homes. Congress 
has attempted to overcome local and State zoning issues that 
purposely exclude manufactured homes. In 2000, Congress 
expanded HUD's preemption authority over local requirements, 
saying it should be ``broadly and liberally construed''. 
Manufactured Housing Institute (MHI) believes it is past time 
for HUD to update its 1997 policy statement, and Congress 
should direct them to do so. We are not asking for advantages 
relative to other forms of housing, just a level playing field, 
so we can expand the supply of affordable homes.
    Next, modernize the chassis requirement for manufactured 
homes. Federal law requires manufactured homes to be built on a 
permanent chassis. This is an outdated standard rooted in the 
era of mobile homes. Today's manufactured homes are rarely 
moved once installed. Eliminating the chassis requirement would 
allow our industry to design homes with a lower profile that 
would improve curb appeal, and it would enable development of 
multi-story designs and other innovations.
    Next, expand how financing options for manufactured homes. 
Affordable financing is critical to making homeownership 
accessible. Congress should direct Federal Housing 
Administration (FHA), Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac to support 
buyers of manufactured homes through targeted actions. First, 
expand cross-model lending programs. These programs should 
include single-section homes that meet all the other criteria 
of cross-mod homes. The only thing that limits the single-
section home from being included is its size. It is basically 
an oversight. Next, ensure fair access to commercial loans for 
community operators. Commercial financing should be available 
to all community operators, not just nonprofits. Privately 
operated communities have a long track record of success with 
high resident satisfaction. Create effective home-only loan 
programs. Despite years of discussion, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, 
and Ginnie Mae have failed to create a secondary market for 
home-only loans. Congress should require meaningful action to 
make these loans accessible and affordable. Access to 
affordable financing is not just a policy goal, it is a 
practical necessity for millions of American families.
    The manufactured housing industry is not asking for 
subsidies or preferential treatment. We are asking for 
sensible, clear regulations, fair access to locations that need 
affordable housing, and inclusion in Federal homebuyer 
financing programs so we can do what we do best, build 
affordable, high-quality homes for American families. Thank you 
for the opportunity to testify.

    [Prepared statement of Mr. Boor follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Flood. Thank you, Mr. Boor. Mr. Schaefer, you are 
now recognized for 5 minutes for your oral remarks.

STATEMENT OF ERIC SCHAEFER, CHIEF BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT OFFICER, 
                          FADING WEST

    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you, Chairman Flood and Ranking Member 
Cleaver of the Subcommittee on Housing and Insurance, for the 
opportunity to testify today on your hearing of housing 
innovation in America. I speak today as an advocate for 
innovative solutions to our Nation's persistent affordable 
housing crisis by using offsite modular construction. The 
hearing is timely given the lack of affordable housing across 
the country caused by workforce shortages, supply chain 
disruptions, coupled with inflation, entitlement burdens, and 
design approval challenges.
    I am Eric Schaefer, Chief Business Development Officer of 
Fading West, located in Buena Vista, Colorado. Fading West 
began in 2016 with what we thought was going to be a one-time 
workforce housing project called The Farm, located in Buena 
Vista, before we ended up building our own factory almost 4 
years ago. We found that modular manufacturing carries 
significant advantages over stick-built construction. I am here 
today because Fading West and the modular manufacturing 
industry firmly believes the U.S. Congress can have a role in 
helping the Nation's homebuilding industry to continue to 
innovate and, thereby, be a partner in resolving the housing 
shortages across the country.
    Off-site modular construction offers a compelling 
alternative. This method involves manufacturing individual 
housing modules in a controlled factory setting. These modules, 
complete with electrical wiring, plumbing, interior finishes, 
are then transported and assembled onsite; so, 90 percent of 
the home ends up being built in the factory. Fading West has 
integrated the entire construction value stream by combining 
real estate development, modular manufacturing, and the general 
contracting to reduce waste and improve quality and speed. We 
can build homes 10 to 20 percent less expensive by reducing 
waste from 30 percent to less than 5 percent, and by 
standardizing processes and products similar to a car 
manufacturer. We increase volume, which brings down cost. We 
can complete homes 50 to 70 percent quicker than traditional 
construction. A typical Fading West home is built in less than 
8 working days in our factory and then completed at the site in 
less than 30 days. From start to finish, a new home can be 
completed in less than 40 days, compared to the greater than 9 
months for traditional construction.
    Last September and October, Fading West built 80 homes, 
actually over 80 homes, in our Colorado factory, put them on 
trucks and trucked them to Seattle, and then barged them to 
Maui, where homes were completed for families affected by the 
Lahaina fires; so, by January of this year, all families had 
moved in. From the start of production to completion, the whole 
process took less than 4 months. Fading West recently partnered 
with Vail Valley Habitat for Humanity to build 16 homes for 
teachers. Built the usual way, Habitat would have only been 
able to complete either two or three homes instead of 16. It 
took Fading West 1 month to build the homes in the factory, 
allowing the teachers to move in for the beginning of this 
school year.
    These are just a couple of successful proof-of-concept 
projects that have been completed using modular. To fully 
leverage the potential of offsite modular construction, we need 
your support. This includes, first, as a long-term solution, 
mandate the harmonization of regional building codes to 
streamline the housing construction regulatory process. An 
example of this, last week, Governor Polis of Colorado signed a 
regional codes bill to reduce the number of building codes 
around our State, dropping it from 300 down to under 10. Number 
two, invest in research and development to support modular 
design, materials, and new construction techniques. Third, to 
provide grants and low-interest loans to the supply side, using 
Federal funds to help build modular manufacturing facilities to 
increase housing supply instead of just subsidizing the demand 
side projects.
    Off-site modular construction is not just a trend. It is a 
viable and innovative solution that can significantly impact 
the affordable housing crisis. By embracing this approach, we 
can build more homes faster and at a lower cost and with a 
higher quality. Let us work together to unlock the potential of 
modular construction and provide safe, decent, and affordable 
housing for all Americans. Thank you for the opportunity to 
testify before the subcommittee, and I look forward to 
answering your questions.

    [Prepared statement of Mr. Schaefer follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Flood. Thank you. Dr. McCoy, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes for your oral remarks.

   STATEMENT OF DR. ANDREW P. McCOY, PH.D., DIRECTOR OF THE 
 VIRGINIA CENTER FOR HOUSING RESEARCH (VCHR), PROFESSOR IN THE 
 DEPARTMENT OF BULDING CONSTRUCTION, AND ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF 
THE MYERS LAWSON SCHOOL OF CONSTRUCTION (MLSoC), VIRGINIA TECH 
                           UNIVERSITY

    Dr. McCoy. I want to first thank Chairman Flood and Ranking 
Member Cleaver and the subcommittee for inviting me here today. 
It is an honor to be here and discuss the role of housing 
innovation and driving the past and future of our industry.
    The space race was one of the biggest boons of the 20th 
century to housing technology. It advanced materials like 
insulation that we now take for granted. In the 21st century, 
industrialized construction methods will build faster with 
greater precision and less waste. Artificial intelligence will 
automate and accelerate processes while reducing delays, 
errors, and costs. Smart materials will transform the parts of 
housing. Emerging innovations, like digital twins, real-time 
construction monitoring, and data processing, will offer 
predictive control and assurance for quality costs, operations, 
and maintenance. Importantly, these technologies will not 
remove the need for people. They will expand opportunities for 
skilled work, increase accessibility, and empower a new 
generation of construction professionals with tools, support, 
and control.
    In many ways, home-building technologies are a public 
event. The processes of U.S. home building are visible to the 
public every day. Innovation creates benefits for consumers, 
and the knowledge created by one firm creates value for other 
firms and their customers. Our policy dilemma is that the 
Nation is not reaping economic and social returns from 
innovation when the industry is not innovating as much as 
possible. We tend to think of housing as an economic indicator 
while we need to see housing innovation as an economic driver.
    Over time, several milestones have influenced the role of 
technology in the housing industry. The U.S. Government 
actively began supporting housing advances in technology 
through the housing policy in 1949s American Housing Act. In 
1970, the Housing and Urban Development Act provided additional 
authority to improve the physical quality of housing through 
technological change, effectively mandating housing technology 
as public policy. Examples of public programs that concentrated 
on housing innovation nationally include the 1962 Civilian 
Industrial Technology Program, the late 1960s Operation 
Breakthrough Program, and the 1990s Partnership for Advancing 
Technology in Housing, or PATH. Lessons learned include the 
need for public-private partnerships, the impacts of local 
regulation and fragmentation, and the need for more funding 
options specific to this industry.
    More recently, the 2008 financial downturn led to a 
dispersion of trades away from construction and resulted in a 
decade of underproducing new homes. The percentage of new 
construction, which provides the majority of housing's economic 
impacts--jobs, materials, services--only recently recovered.
    Over the last decade, labor shortages, a lack of available 
land, cost inflation, supply disruptions, and rising financial 
costs have resulted in few options for the median home buyer. 
As we heard earlier, the National Association of Home Builders 
estimates that 103.5 million households, or 77 percent of U.S. 
households, are not able to afford the $428,000 cost of a 
median-priced home. Attention now has shifted to innovation. By 
example of the Commonwealth of Virginia, local agencies and 
governments are implementing zoning reforms, funding options, 
and regulatory reform that reduce barriers to innovation. The 
Virginia Housing Development Authority (VHDA) has particularly 
leaned in. For example, their qualified allocation plan scoring 
incorporates points for developers who use innovation in their 
low-income housing tax credit developments, making them more 
competitive. VHDA has also created community innovation grants 
up to $500,000 that de-risk the adoption process for builders 
willing to try new technologies.
    Our 3D concrete printing program has recently benefited. 
Producing four workforce homes and starting on an additional 
10, Virginia's Department of Housing and Community Development 
also recently modified parts of the building code to facilitate 
the use of modular housing, getting out of the way and making 
these technologies more accessible to the market. The city of 
Danville and Southside Virginia recently changed the zoning to 
allow for manufactured and modular housing units to reduce 
costs and provide options. Also, Governor Youngkin's permitting 
dashboard at the Department of Environmental Quality is an 
example of streamlining and speeding up process. Nevertheless, 
the cumulative result is persistent underproduction. The path 
forward will require coordinated partnerships and investment, 
regulatory modernization, workforce development, innovative 
financing, and cross-sector collaboration.
    Construction technology is especially compelling right now 
because it does not replace human workers, it amplifies them. 
Let me say that again. Construction technology is especially 
compelling right now because it does not replace human workers, 
it amplifies them, innovations like augmented reality for 
training robotic assistance of repetitive tasks and digital 
project coordination. For example, a framer using layout tools 
with augmented reality can complete work faster and with fewer 
errors. The goal is not to automate people out of housing, but 
to build better industry around them. It is time to harness 
these tools for progress in the housing industry. In doing so, 
home-building technologies could expand from a public event----
    Chairman Flood. The gentlemen's time has expired.
    Dr. McCoy [continuing]. to a public opportunity. Thank you.

    [Prepared statement of Dr. McCoy follows:]
   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Flood. Thank you very much. Mr. Fleu, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes for your oral remarks.

 STATEMENT OF MR. COLTEN LEWIS FLEU, SENIOR ATTORNEY, MOUNTAIN 
                      STATE JUSTICE, INC.

    Mr. Fleu. Chairman Flood, Ranking Member Cleaver, members 
of the subcommittee, on behalf of Mountain State Justice, thank 
you for inviting me to testify today regarding manufactured 
housing. I am a Senior Attorney at Mountain State Justice 
(MSJ), a nonprofit legal services provider in West Virginia. We 
exclusively represent low-income people at no cost to them. 
Since 1996, we have served thousands of homeowners of 
manufactured housing in danger of losing their homes or losing 
their homes and their land from predatory lending practices. We 
also represent these homeowners living in unsafe and unhealthy 
environments due to conditions of their home or damages from 
natural disasters. This testimony is also on behalf of the 
National Consumer Law Center and its low-income clients.
    In West Virginia, we are proud to have the highest rate of 
homeownership in the Nation. We maintain that level of 
homeownership while possessing the 49th lowest average 
household income. It is no coincidence that West Virginians 
occupy manufactured housing at more than twice the national 
average. These homeowners are overwhelmingly folks on fixed 
incomes--the elderly, veterans, and the disabled. Those not on 
fixed incomes are working families struggling to make ends 
meet, yet these homeowners face widespread abuses in loan 
financing and systemic problems with community conditions. I 
want to share a couple of these folks' stories with you and 
some recommendations gleaned from my experience, but please 
remember this; manufactured homes are fundamentally different 
than stick-built homes. Manufactured homes, also called mobile 
homes, are not so mobile. They have a finite lifespan and 
moving them can be cost-prohibitive if they can be moved at 
all. Manufactured homes depreciate like cars. Manufactured 
homes are a vital source of housing, but they are not a wealth-
building tool. It is a fact we urge you to keep in mind as you 
look to expand access to this important housing.
    The first case I want to share involves a leased land 
community, a mobile home park, specifically five mobile home 
parks totaling more than 640 home sites in Mercer County, West 
Virginia. It was bought by a hedge fund for investment. For a 
quick background, Mercer County is in the coalfields of 
Southern West Virginia. The median household income is under 
$48,000 a year, yet 70 percent of the housing units in the 
county are still owner occupied. One of these owner-occupied 
houses belonged to Mr. and Mrs. P. Six years ago, they cashed 
out their meager savings, bought a home for $30,000, and moved 
into one of these 640 lots. The entire time they were there, 
they paid $300 a month for rent and got by with their Social 
Security income. Other residents of these communities include 
Ms. R and her husband, who ran a small business, averaged about 
$42,000 a year in take-home pay, paid $225 a month in lot rent. 
Ms. V, who had been living in one of these lots for 14 years 
was providing around-the-clock care for her adult disabled son 
and was paid through the Medicaid Waiver program. She also paid 
$225 a month for lot rent.
    But when the hedge fund consolidated its new investments, 
it issued notices of rent increases, just 60 days' warning and 
time to hit just before Christmas. The rent increases were 
steep: 75 percent for Mr. and Mrs. P, $300 a month to $525; 120 
percent for Ms. R--she went from $225 a month to $495; 133 
percent for Ms. V and her disabled son, an increase from $225 a 
month to $525. Each one of these families were told to pay the 
new amount or there would be an eviction filed, and at the same 
time, the landlord neglected the community upkeep, leading to 
conditions such as a septic tank overflow onto community land. 
There is no happy ending to this story had the hedge fund 
provider provided proper notice to the residents. Most States 
have no specific protections for lot rent increases or neglect 
in community conditions. Like Mr. and Mrs. P, the residents 
invest tens of thousands of dollars in these homes that sit on 
rented land without any assurance of security.
    In my written remarks, I also share the story of Mr. and 
Mrs. A, who fell victim to a bait-and-switch financing scheme, 
trapping them in a loan that they could not afford and 
jeopardizing the loss of both their home and their land. 
Without meaningful competition among lenders for manufactured 
home purchases, the potential for exploitation of buyers, 
again, overwhelmingly the elderly, the disabled, and veteran 
communities. Expanding manufactured housing market needs 
greater government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) backing of loans 
to ensure sustainable financing, including for those living in 
older homes and in manufactured communities. These programs 
also must include tenant protections to protect both residents 
and lenders.
    Thank you for the opportunity again to speak with you 
today, and I welcome any questions.

    [Prepared statement of Mr. Fleu follows:]
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman Flood. Thank you Mr. Fleu. I now recognize myself 
for 5 minutes for questions, but before I start my questions to 
our witnesses, I want to recall a quick story that helps frame 
my interest in manufactured housing in particular.
    Last year, I heard about a new development of manufactured 
homes in Hagerstown, Maryland. The developer was working in 
partnership with Freddie Mac. Each one of these homes was built 
on fee-simple-owned individual lots. From what I had heard, 
these homes did not fit the mold of what I imagined a 
manufactured home community would look like. It was not the 
manufactured homes of the 1970s. These were the kind of homes 
that a small family could be proud of, and yet, they were going 
on the market for fairly low cost relative to stick-built 
homes. There were curbs. There were gutters. There were trees. 
There were driveways.
    Interested, I organized a group of Nebraskans and all the 
housing groups I could think of to go see the development. We 
chartered a bus. We went up to Maryland with the Nebraska 
Investment Finance Authority, local builders, and local 
nonprofits to check out the development. Sure enough, the homes 
looked as advertised. They were not big or glamorous, but they 
were nice, solid homes that you would not have known they were 
manufactured homes if you were not told. In fact, I was so sure 
that I was not looking at a manufactured home, I got underneath 
one of the homes, and I saw the chassis. I could imagine a 
young couple moving into one of those homes to start a family, 
and I could imagine them beaming with pride. Kids running 
around in the neighborhood next to a playground the first day 
they get the keys to their new house. Well, they will not fix 
everything. I do think there is potential here for some of 
these development types to be part of a broader housing supply 
solution in this country.
    Mr. Boor, manufactured housing is built to a national 
standard under the HUD code. How can Congress and HUD better 
leverage this existing code to expand the use of manufactured 
homes in federally funded affordable housing projects?
    Mr. Boor. Thank you, Chairman Flood, and I appreciate the 
story. We are proud of the homes we are building, so thanks for 
that.
    A lot of it is what I tried to outline. I mean, I think 
expanding affordable housing is really a game of expanding the 
playing field under the HUD code. Doing things like removing 
the chassis allows us to innovate, and that innovation will 
lead to us developing products, for example, that can go into 
urban infill, which is an area our industry traditionally has 
not penetrated. Those kinds of things, the financing that we 
talked about, if we can get home-only financing through the 
GSEs, that reduces the monthly cost for a buyer and makes more 
homes affordable. That is a huge opportunity. At the other 
extreme, some of the cross-mod homes we are doing are probably 
similar to what you saw. Currently, for no reason I can 
understand multi-section homes that meet that criteria fit, but 
single-section homes that are just smaller still meeting the 
criteria do not qualify under cross-mod, and so that seems like 
an oversight to me. I would like to see that changed. All of 
these things grow the playing field, grow the opportunity for 
us to innovate, and will allow us to provide more homes for 
families.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you very much. Mr. Schaefer, can you 
describe how modular manufacturing can reduce home costs, and 
roughly how much savings could a home buyer expect to see with 
a modular home relative to a stick-built home?
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes. Thank you, Chairman Flood. What we are 
seeing again, it is speed to market. We have 18 workstations in 
our factory, so again, imagine a Toyota car factory. The box is 
moved from station to station to station. About 90 percent of 
the home is built in the factory, so these are very high-
quality, built to the international building code. These are 
put on permanent foundations, so high quality, energy 
efficient, to your point earlier, architecturally interesting. 
We want to build homes that people who are moving into them are 
proud to live in them. Then the onsite work is dramatically 
reduced. It is set on a permanent foundation, as I said, and 
then about 30 days until the final Certificate of Occupancy 
(CO), so the savings come kind of in two or three ways. First, 
it is the speed, so the----
    Chairman Flood. Before you go there, I have one more 
question for Mr. Boor before my time runs out. I do not mean to 
cut you off, but----
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes.
    Chairman Flood. Mr. Boor, what are the risks to 
affordability of access if other Federal agencies, like 
Department of Energy, impose conflicting standards without 
HUD's coordination or oversight?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. At a high level, I think the issue is those 
agencies do not always understand our process, so they are 
myopically going after a given improvement that they are 
viewing. Yet, HUD has a more robust, holistic process that 
considers those energy advancements in this case, but relative 
to affordability, the Department of Energy (DOE) rules would 
drive the costs up considerably for our homebuyers.
    Chairman Flood. Thank you very much, and Mr. Schaefer, I 
apologize again for having cut you off. I would ask that you 
respond to the rest of my question for the record so that I can 
make it part of the record for this hearing.
    Mr. Schaefer. Absolutely. Again, how we----
    Chairman Flood. Unfortunately, I have to cut myself off 
again because I only have 5 minutes, but I appreciate you very 
much. Thank you. The gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Cleaver, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I kind of want to 
follow up in that same direction. Mr. Fleu, if you would, you 
are familiar with the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) 
and the Home program, I believe. These are critically important 
programs, and they are the two largest Federal sources of 
flexible funding used by States and Federal and local 
governments to preserve, rehabilitate, and, in some cases, 
actually develop manufacturing housing. These programs support 
infrastructure upgrades, housing rehabilitation, land 
acquisition, and a number of other critical improvements in 
manufactured housing communities.
    Now, these programs have been targeted, unfortunately and 
for me, painfully, despite their role in addressing 
affordability and improving conditions in underserved areas. Do 
you see, as I do, the negative impact of these programs being 
cut would have on what I think most of us in this room are 
interested in trying to develop?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you, Ranking Member Cleaver. I do see that. 
I do agree with the ranking member. I would actually urge that 
these programs should be expanded and funds should be available 
to more communities to improve the conditions.
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you. The ability, I think, of us to get 
something done will depend on our ability to work jointly, and 
I think there is, as I hope you can see, some bipartisan 
support for the new, innovative ways in which we can reduce 
costs to build decent housing for our constituents. When 
renters are evicted, they typically leave the unit behind. In 
contrast, manufactured homeowners face a far more complex 
situation, probably legal maneuvering would be involved, but 
they must either sell their home or relocate to another site, 
and during coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), the market for 
manufactured homes declined sharply. In the case where the 
manufactured homeowners cannot find buyers, they have little 
resources and may just leave the home in some kind of a 
residential area or in a park. In many States, these 
manufactured homes are considered abandoned property after 30 
days, to which landlords can take over the titles and lease 
them to new tenants. To any of you, what kind of protection 
should we develop to protect those homeowners?
    Mr. Fleu. If I may, Ranking Member Cleaver, unfortunately, 
I think that problem that you have identified is a State law 
issue. Besides just the abandoned property, we see storage fees 
assessed when the resident has to leave their home, and the 
eviction process in West Virginia is no different for an owner 
of a manufactured home in a rented land community than from an 
apartment. They leave behind and they end up forfeiting the 
largest asset that they own oftentimes. Unfortunately, as I 
say, these eviction laws, landlord-tenant laws, are usually 
State law issues, and so it will take really a 50-State 
strategy, I believe.
    Mr. Cleaver. In other words, Congress has to come together 
and agree to what Chairman Flood and I say. They must do what 
we said----
    Mr. Fleu. That is right.
    Mr. Cleaver [continuing]. to fix this. Everybody?
    [Nonverbal response.]
    Mr. Cleaver. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The chairman of 
the full committee, the gentleman from Arkansas, Mr. Hill, is 
now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Chairman Hill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, thanks to 
the panel. Very good testimony.
    Mr. Boor, really appreciate your testimony, and I was 
particularly interested in the cost you outlined, the 
flexibility of the regulatory agenda you outlined. I hope that 
we can do something to propose that. I was a staffer on the 
Housing Subcommittee in 1983, and we had the exact same 
testimony. Technology has advanced and innovation has advanced, 
but apparently, HUD and the regulatory system is stuck in the 
1970s on this matter. Would you agree with that?
    Mr. Boor. I think there are some very specific actions that 
could be taken, and they do not seem that complex to me, but 
that is outside of this city, I guess.
    Chairman Hill. Yes. I would like your views on the idea of 
this removal. To have a chassis required to be in a 
manufactured home is a 50-year-old idea. It seems ridiculous to 
me----
    Mr. Boor. Right.
    Chairman Hill [continuing]. particularly considering Mr. 
Schaefer's good testimony on modular construction, generally. 
Tell me a couple of success stories in urban areas in multi-
story, at least let us just start, Bill, with you and comment 
on it and then turn to Mr. Schaefer.
    Mr. Boor. Success stories of manufactured housing in urban 
areas?
    Chairman Hill. Yes, exactly.
    Mr. Boor. Yes. It is really an untapped market opportunity. 
Our homes have traditionally gone into rural areas because of 
the zoning challenges we talked about earlier. What we have 
seen is where affordability is the absolute worst, that is 
where municipalities are starting to lower the barriers. We 
have seen that in some small towns. Martinsville, Virginia, we 
had a project that was aimed at homeownership for people with 
average incomes of $17 an hour. A variety of agencies got 
involved in that, but then you take it to the other extreme. 
L.A. County has done a tremendous amount of work to open up the 
opportunity for factory-built solutions. In that case, 
affordable dwelling units (ADUs) were one of the solutions that 
they have really grabbed on to. We have shown that our products 
can penetrate those and increase affordable housing in 
traditionally or nontraditional markets. It usually takes----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you. Mr. Schaefer, could you comment 
on that, too, please?
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes. A great example is in the town of 
Breckenridge, who acted as the developer for this project. 
There was nowhere for the workforce to live, so we built 60 
apartment units just a block from Main Street. If you have been 
skiing there, you know exactly where that is, and land was 
donated, which allowed some affordability of those 60 units. 
One thousand and one hundred people applied for the lottery to 
get those units. So, you can just see the incredible need for 
workforce housing, especially in ski and mountain towns.
    Chairman Hill. I was taken by your testimony as well where 
you talked about $93,000 in regulatory costs per unit, meaning 
about 24 percent of the median home price in the country. That 
is mind blowing to, I think, this committee. I hope it is. I 
mean, I hope that is flabbergasting to people in this 
committee.
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes. One of my lines that I use quite often 
is the word, ``affordable'' and ``housing,'' should never be 
used in the same sentence. There is no such thing.
    Chairman Hill. Yes, and you also referenced, and Bill did 
in his testimony as well, which is, so much of this and we have 
heard this testimony for years, is a State-and local-driven set 
of barriers. Those costs are mostly State and local, the 
barriers to creative uses and density rates, obviously in urban 
areas and that comes from, you say in your testimony, 43,096 
jurisdictions that all have different building codes, different 
zoning requirements, different not in my backyard. Is there a 
model city or county that you think is outstanding on this 
issue that we could share? Yes, Mr. Boor, go ahead and start.
    Mr. Boor. I would answer it in a different way. I think 
that is the beauty of the HUD code. The HUD code provides a 
Federal code that, in concept, if we meet that Federal code, we 
can place those homes anywhere, and HUD has preemptive 
authority. One of the actions I outlined was Congress should 
point to HUD and say update your policy statement, exert your 
preemptive authority so that there is a stronger statement from 
the Federal Government about not disallowing HUD code homes.
    Chairman Hill. Yes. Anybody else want to talk about that? 
Mr. Schaefer.
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes, I can just comment. There were over 300 
building codes in our State. Again, to use the car analogy, 
that would mean a Camry would be built 300 different ways. It 
would cost $200,000 if cars were governed the same way that 
houses were. What we have done in our State, and this was just 
signed last Thursday, was to reduce those codes to regional 
codes; so, the coldest areas will have a different building 
code, obviously, than the plains----
    Chairman Hill. Thank you very much. Very useful testimony. 
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman 
from California, Ms. Waters, who is also the ranking member of 
the full Financial Services Committee, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much. Mr. Fleu. In your 
testimony, you noted that private investors acquiring 
manufactured housing communities often fail to comply with 
State laws that require that they honor existing leases and 
provide advance notice before increasing rents. This violation 
leaves residents vulnerable to sudden cost increases and 
housing instability. Can you speak more about how common these 
violations are and what tools, whether regulatory or 
legislative, are needed to ensure that these protections and 
notice requirements are enforced in manufactured housing 
communities? Are you talking about preempting State laws and 
doing something from the Federal level? What are you thinking 
about?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you for the question. The way I would see 
Federal law preempting State law, if you will, if the GSE-
backed funding would expand and allow owners of homes that are 
not converted to real property, so they remain personal 
property loans. If the GSEs would provide funding for those 
loans and provide within that funding requirement, certain 
rules and regulations which would have to be complied with by 
communities, that would go some distance, I think, to setting a 
baseline standard.
    Ms. Waters. That makes good sense. Even as communities 
across the country struggle with severe housing shortages, 
local governments continue to use discriminatory zoning and 
land use regulations to block the development of placement of 
manufactured homes. These restrictions are often rooted in 
outdated and stigmatizing beliefs about manufactured housing 
and the people who live in it, making it nearly impossible to 
expand this affordable housing option in many areas. How have 
exclusionary zoning practices limit access to the use of 
manufactured housing, and how, again, can Federal Government 
help push communities to adopt zoning reforms?
    Mr. Fleu. Congresswoman, I really am not qualified to speak 
to your question. In West Virginia, we have very few zoning 
laws, and so I am not the proper witness, I think, to answer 
your question.
    Ms. Waters. You are absolutely correct. This is something 
that our city councils and mayors have to deal with in zoning, 
and it is a big political problem. Let me go on.
    Manufactured housing communities are often on the front 
lines of increasingly frequent climate disasters, such as 
hurricanes, floods, and wildfires, yet they face some of the 
biggest barriers to recovery. Many live in homes that are 
decades old and not built to resiliency standards. Others 
struggle to access Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) 
assistance due to land tenure issues or documentation barriers. 
Too often, these residents are left behind when Federal 
recovery funds are distributed. What changes are needed within 
FEMA and HUD to ensure manufactured housing residents receive 
equitable disaster assistance and that Federal investments 
prioritize resilience and preservation of their homes in these 
communities? I guess you would say that is what we should be 
thinking about. We should have some answers to that, but maybe 
you can help us out with that.
    Mr. Fleu. I think you hit the nail on the head there. The 
discrimination between personal property homes and real 
property homes, I think everyone on this panel would probably 
agree is really a distinction that no longer is accurate, and I 
think that Congress and the Agency should work toward an even 
playing field for all homeowners, whether they own the land the 
home sits on or not.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much. I would just like to say 
to you, and perhaps to the other witnesses here today, this is 
an issue that could get bipartisan support. In doing that, we 
must recognize the experiences we have had and clean it up and 
make sure that it is available and that the money is there. If 
we do that, I think we can move this issue, and it is needed 
desperately in this country. We have to get rid of 
homelessness, and the unhoused people, expect us to come up 
with answers but let us not be shy about it. Let us get 
together and say we want the money, we want the assistance, we 
want the care that should be given to manufactured housing, 
just as it is expected for everybody in this country. I am 
looking forward to us being able to do that, and I yield back 
the balance of my time.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from Tennessee, Mr. Rose, who is arguably our subject matter 
expert on the majority side and passionate about manufactured 
housing, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you, Chairman Flood, and thank you, Ranking 
Member Cleaver, for holding this important hearing, and thank 
you to all of our witnesses for taking time out of your 
schedules to be with us today.
    It is no secret that we are facing a serious housing 
shortage in this country. I hear from my constituents back in 
the 6th District of Tennessee all the time about their 
difficulties locating affordable housing. I daresay my 
colleagues hear the same story. In many areas of our Nation, 
starter homes simply do not exist at an affordable price. So I 
applaud Chairman Flood's leadership and focus on increasing the 
housing supply, and I appreciate that a discussion draft of my 
bill, the Expansion of Attainable Homeownership through 
Manufactured Housing Act of 2025, has been attached to this 
hearing. My bill would remove the statutory requirement that 
all manufactured homes be built on a permanent chassis.
    Mr. Boor, I appreciate that the Manufactured Housing 
Institute supports passage of the Expansion of Attainable 
Homeownership Through Manufactured Housing Act of 2025. Can you 
discuss why it is so important to remove the statutory 
requirement that manufactured homes be built on a permanent 
chassis?
    Mr. Boor. Absolutely. Thank you for the question. I think 
this bill represents a true expansion of the scope of housing 
that can be covered under the HUD code, and we have talked 
about the advantages of the HUD code generally across the 
country. Once this bill is passed, we will still have homes 
built on chassis because there is obviously a place for that, 
but now we have the opportunity to innovate in ways where the 
home can be brought down. The curb appeal can be approved. We 
can go multistory. We can do a lot of innovation that, 
particularly, will allow us to overcome some of the hesitance 
about placing our homes in urban and suburban environments.
    Mr. Rose. I completely agree, and I think Ranking Member 
Waters was correct when she said that removing the stigma 
attached to manufactured housing is a big part of the task in 
front of us; so, I think this gives us a chance to move forward 
and realize the potential of what manufactured housing can do 
to increasing homeownership affordability.
    Mr. Boor, my office has worked extensively with the 
Manufactured Housing Institute on the bill that is attached to 
today's hearing to remove the permanent chassis requirement. 
One of the issues that we have focused on is ensuring that this 
bill does not impact the financing of manufactured homes. Do 
you believe that the bill attached to this hearing strikes the 
right balance of ensuring removal of the permanent chassis 
requirement while also making sure that the financing of 
manufactured homes is not adversely affected?
    Mr. Boor. Yes, there is a lot of work to be done. I think 
the first step is your bill, and we have already started this 
process within the industry. We are going to have to sync up 
State law to that bill so that the financing concerns can be 
alleviated. There is a lot of work to be done afterwards, but 
you will start the ball rolling.
    Mr. Rose. Do you believe that State work can happen quickly 
enough to usher along this transformation?
    Mr. Boor. I believe it will be a snowball. I think there 
will be some really quick, easy wins there, and once some 
States are doing it, other States are going to quickly conform.
    Mr. Rose. Mr. Boor, I am intrigued by the cross-mod concept 
and product. Could you elaborate on what a cross-mod home is 
and what the new single section cross-mod product entails? 
Additionally, how can this housing innovation make 
homeownership more attainable for Americans?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. ``Cross-mod'' is a term we use, really, to 
sync up with the Fannie and Freddie programs that say, if a 
home meets certain criteria, it can be appraised against site-
built comps, and that is a big deal, right? That recognizes 
that the provider of money says that our homes, from a quality 
perspective, are equal to site-built homes, which they are. The 
issue that I raised, which I think is a pretty straightforward 
fix, is that right now, those programs only insure homes that 
are multi-section. These homes have certain characteristics 
from the factory, and they also have certain characteristics at 
the site to qualify for this financing, and I believe it is an 
oversight not to allow smaller homes that qualify under this 
criterion to also qualify. So, I think it is a pretty 
straightforward change that will expand the concept of cross-
mod home availability.
    Mr. Rose. Dr. McCoy, do you feel that single-section cross-
mod has the potential to make homeownership attainable for more 
Americans?
    Dr. McCoy. I am not sure I can answer that from my 
perspective and my expertise, but I can also say that one of 
the things that we talk about with innovation is that the 
residential construction industry is not necessarily very 
innovative, but when we look closely, we see that these are all 
innovations. Everything we are talking about is an improvement, 
and it is something that can help with getting more housing to 
more people that need it.
    Mr. Rose. Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman 
from Massachusetts, Ms. Pressley, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Housing is a 
fundamental human right. Housing and affordability are the 
number one issue I hear about from my constituents. Adding 
insult to injury, Trump is proposing a cut to rental aid 
assistance by 40 percent, essentially ending Section 8, and has 
already canceled contracts that support affordable housing. 
Trump is putting profits over people, worsening our housing 
crisis, and we need Congress to tackle zoning reform.
    Exclusionary zoning is a national problem and has a deep 
history in my district, the Massachusetts 7th, and, in fact, in 
the early 20th century, Boston adopted zoning codes that 
explicitly restricted where Black and immigrant families could 
live. Redlining, disinvestment, and segregation concentrated 
poverty in some neighborhoods while hoarding wealth in others, 
and today, that legacy lives on. Zoning regulations in Boston 
are so contradictory and complex, in fact, that what would take 
a day and less than $100 to be approved in another city takes 
$10,000 and more than 6 months in the city of Boston. There is 
abundant research showing exclusionary zoning perpetuates 
housing scarcity, economic segregation, unequal school systems, 
and disparate health outcomes.
    Dr. McCoy, I would like to begin with you. For folks 
watching this hearing who may not be steeped in housing policy, 
can you explain the difference between single-family zoning and 
multi-family zoning, and how does that difference affect the 
overall supply and affordability of housing?
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. I came prepared to 
talk about technology, but I can do my best to try to expand a 
little bit on what you are asking. Single-family zoning would 
typically be restricted to a certain size of a footprint of the 
building on a lot and would restrict certain uses of that 
building and would ensure that anyone who purchased that 
building was restricted to that over time. Multifamily 
typically is something that we are going to use in a denser 
situation where we need to have multiple units on top of each 
other or organized on the site, and, of course, it has its own 
different uses that it is restricted to.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you. In Boston, more than 80 percent of 
residential land is still zoned exclusively for single-family 
homes or low-density housing, and we know that zoning has never 
been neutral. Mr. Fleu, in your legal advocacy work, can you 
elaborate on how zoning has been used historically as a 
mechanism of segregation and displacement, and what role you 
see Congress playing in reversing that legacy while still 
respecting local governance?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you, Congresswoman. Again, I am not the 
best witness to answer questions regarding zoning because in my 
State, we have so few zoning laws. I certainly recognize the 
conditions that the Congresswoman has identified, and I see 
those perpetuated in my own State, not by zoning laws, but by 
convention, but I cannot address the question specifically.
    Ms. Pressley. All right then. Let me pose a question to all 
of our witnesses today. Please raise your hand if you believe 
Congress should consider tying certain Federal housing 
infrastructure funds to local zoning reform.
    [Hands raised.]
    Ms. Pressley. All right. Let the record reflect that all 
four of our witnesses raised their hand, and I agree. Congress 
cannot wait any longer. We need to lift bans on multifamily 
housing, reduce minimum lot sizes, and modernize outdated code 
that limits supply, because if we are going to invest Federal 
dollars into housing and infrastructure, we need to ensure 
those dollars are not being undermined by local rules that 
drive prices up. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from New York, Mr. Lawler, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Lawler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the most common 
concerns I hear from my constituents is affordability of 
housing. With mortgage rates near their highest since the turn 
of the millennium, a limited housing supply in many 
communities, and broader affordability concerns across the last 
several years, it is perhaps the most difficult time to 
purchase a home in our region's history. At the heart of this 
crisis is supply. We are millions of units underbuilt in this 
country and simply not building enough, and certainly not fast 
enough. Last year, I introduced the Revitalizing America's 
Housing Act, which calls for a wide-ranging series of 
bipartisan reforms and policies that would, amongst other 
goals, reframe how we are treating prefabricated homes in order 
to incentivize construction and reduce unaffordability. Dr. 
McCoy, what role do prefabricated homes play in addressing 
housing shortfalls in our developed nations around the globe?
    Dr. McCoy. In developed nations around the globe?
    Mr. Lawler. Yes.
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. I guess what I would 
answer is, I advocate for a deep bench on this. We need many 
different options. We have a lot of capacity in this country, 
and we have lost some capacity, especially in terms of 
manufactured housing that we can bring back, right? In terms of 
prefabricated options, it is growing, and we have seen a lot of 
growth in this. Mr. Schaefer can attest to that, and it is a 
very viable option for how we can get housing on the ground 
quickly.
    Mr. Lawler. In comparison to countries like Sweden and 
Japan, in particular, when you look at America's housing 
market, what limitations do you see to the industry reaching 
max capacity and scale on the regulatory and economic levels?
    Dr. McCoy. I am not certain of the type of regulations, for 
example, that you have in Japan versus Sweden. I think in some 
ways, what we have seen is a perception problem, and that is 
something that we really need to work on and make a national 
priority is how do we work against the perception that somehow 
the buildings that are built is modular or are not built 
onsite, for example, that they have less quality in some way, 
which is not true from my experience and from our studies.
    Mr. Lawler. Mr. Schaefer, what role does building code 
complexity add to our current housing supply gap, and how could 
the greater use and acceptance of prefabricated homes help 
reduce that gap?
    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you, Congressman, for your question. 
Yes, I would say, first of all, again, as we have mentioned, it 
is almost $100,000 just in entitlement fees to get to the point 
where you can build a home; so, we are already starting from 
behind. So streamlining those, let building codes per State go 
to regional codes, what that would allow us, then, is to build 
faster, and if you build faster, then the cost comes down.
    Mr. Lawler. What other government barriers might exist at 
the local, State, or Federal level that prevent modular housing 
from reaching their full potential?
    Mr. Schaefer. I would say, again, the higher density. Some 
of the things that we have already heard that would change 
things if the lot sizes were smaller, then you can get more 
homes. Let us say, for instance, in the farm development that 
we did, we were able to get 10 homes per acre, which then 
dropped the price of the homes because we did five-plexes and 
single-family homes down to the $80 to $120 area median income. 
So, shrinking density or increasing density would be a 
tremendous help.
    Mr. Lawler. Thanks. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
from New York, Mr. Torres, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Torres. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Boor, you began your 
testimony with the following statement, ``We are not here today 
asking for subsidies,'' and then toward the end of your opening 
statement, you proceeded to ask for an expansion of the 223(f) 
HUD loan program, which kind of sounds like a subsidy to me 
because it means the government would have to take on the risk. 
We are bearing the risk, and we are subsidizing that risk, so 
it feels like subsidies for me, but not for thee. Are you 
testifying that public policy and regulation can be a barrier 
to cost effective, affordable housing construction? I share 
that view. Do you believe the Trump tariffs fall into that 
category?
    Mr. Boor. Could you explain the role into that category? I 
am sorry.
    Mr. Torres. Do you believe the Trump tariffs raised the 
cost of housing construction materials, which, in turn, raised 
the cost of housing construction, which, in turn, raises the 
cost of housing itself?
    Mr. Boor. To the extent our costs are increased, I will say 
that we import materials that go into our homes and electrical 
components. We ship homes with appliances that come from 
overseas. To the extent tariffs increase and inflate those 
products, that drives up costs for sure, and I would not deny. 
I would completely agree that----
    Mr. Torres. It was absent----
    Mr. Boor [continuing]. monthly costs----
    Mr. Torres [continuing]. from your testimony but if we are 
going to speak about barriers to cost-effective, affordable 
housing construction, the elephant in the room is the Trump 
tariff regime, which is not manufacturing housing. It is 
manufacturing housing shortages.
    Mr. Boor. We should work on all these problems.
    Mr. Torres. I am an evangelist for the housing abundance 
movement and a proponent for housing innovation, land use 
reform, and modular construction. The more innovation, the more 
reasonable regulatory reform, the merrier, but housing and 
housing innovation is a supplement to, not a substitute for, 
housing investment. If you are advocating for housing 
disinvestment, you are not part of the solution, you are part 
of the problem. Mr. Fleu, is it fair to say that housing is a 
priority for most Americans?
    Mr. Fleu. Absolutely.
    Mr. Torres. Housing is a priority for the American people, 
but it is not a priority for Congress. The HUD budget is over 
$70 billion. The overall Federal budget is $7 trillion. Housing 
is a mere 1 percent of the overall Federal budget, and Donald 
Trump wants to take that meager 1 percent and cut it in half at 
a time when America is facing the deepest affordability crisis 
since the Great Depression. Donald Trump is not only seeking to 
cut housing assistance in half, but he is also seeking to 
impose a 2-year limit on the housing assistance he is cutting 
in half.
    As you know, most heads of households in public housing and 
Section 8 are working people. These are not undeserving poor 
people who are gaming the system. These are working people, 
like my mother, who cannot afford market rate rent. The median 
rent in New York City is upward of $3,000. Can you raise your 
hand if you know many working people who can afford $3,000 a 
month?
    [No response.]
    Mr. Torres. Median rent in Brooklyn is around $4,000. 
Median rent in Manhattan is $4,000 to $5,000. If you impose a 
2-year limit on rental assistance, what do you think will 
happen to the working people who live in HUD-assisted housing? 
Mr. Fleu, do you want to take a guess as to what will happen?
    Mr. Fleu. A lot of people would lose their homes.
    Mr. Torres. Right. Instead of the working poor, we would 
have the working homeless and so, the policy choice before us 
is not a choice between the cost of housing and no cost at all. 
It is the choice between the cost of housing and the cost of 
homelessness. Mr. Fleu, which is more expensive both 
economically and socially, housing or homelessness?
    Mr. Fleu. Congressman, I firmly believe that homelessness 
is more expensive.
    Mr. Torres. By orders of magnitude, right? In Donald 
Trump's America, if you are a working-class person, you might 
lose your public housing or Section 8, causing you to pay more 
for housing. You might lose your Supplemental Nutrition 
Assistance Program (SNAP), causing you to pay more for food. 
You might lose your Medicaid, causing you to pay more out of 
pocket for healthcare. You are not only paying more for food 
and housing and healthcare, but you are also paying more for 
everyday goods and services because of the Trump tariffs, 
which, by the way, is raising the cost of housing. Again, I am 
all for housing innovation, but housing investment is 
indispensable to addressing the affordability crisis in 
America. Does anyone disagree with anything I just said?
    [No response.]
    Mr. Torres. There is a consensus. There is bipartisanship 
in America. Modular construction, to what extent can modular 
construction cut the cost of construction? Do we have estimates 
on time savings, cost savings?
    Mr. Schaefer. Just from experience, for us, it is between 
10 and 20 percent.
    Mr. Torres. Okay, and is that national or is that in 
particular places?
    Mr. Schaefer. I can only speak for what we are experiencing 
in Colorado.
    Mr. Torres. Got it. Look, I feel like it is not either/or. 
We need more innovation and more investment, and I hope we can 
build a bipartisan consensus for both. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
from South Carolina, Mr. Timmons, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the 
witnesses for being here today.
    The U.S. housing market has long faced a significant supply 
gap, particularly for low-and moderate-income families, while 
traditional site-built homes have largely dominated. Innovative 
solutions like manufactured, modular, and 3D-printed homes 
present a promising path to expanding affordable housing 
options. I am always fascinated by how technology can be 
harnessed to solve some of our country's most pressing 
challenges. To address the growing housing shortage, it is 
crucial that Congress explore out-of-the-box solutions, 
including emerging technologies, to ensure that all Americans 
have access to safe, affordable housing.
    Dr. McCoy, 3D-printed homes represent a significant 
technological innovation in the housing industry. How do you 
believe this technology can revolutionize the way we approach 
home construction, especially in terms of affordability and 
efficiency?
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. Do you mind just 
repeating the very end of that, ``because when the door 
opened?'' I missed it.
    Mr. Timmons. How do you believe this technology can 
revolutionize the way we approach----
    Dr. McCoy. 3D printing.
    Mr. Timmons [continuing]. home construction, especially in 
terms of affordability and efficiency?
    Dr. McCoy. Excellent. Thank you so much. We have been doing 
a lot of 3D printing. It speeds up the process. It is very 
customizable. It also can augment current processes that we 
see. We have different parts of the home that it can augment 
that, but also, what we are really looking at is how do we 
modernize the construction workforce, so they understand how to 
work with machines as well. I think that is something that we 
have seen in modular and manufacturing that they have already 
started to attempt to understand. We need to understand how we 
can modernize our workforce in the process. I am not sure I am 
exactly answering your question, but there are a lot of 
different options that we can----
    Mr. Timmons. Let me ask you a different way. Permitting and 
regulation are a huge challenge, timing and getting all your 
subs in order and getting the inspectors out, and all that 
stuff. When a computer is doing it, when it is predetermined, I 
would imagine that time, and the lack thereof, necessarily, 
inspections and permitting, there are not a lot of variables in 
subcontractors. You do not need to say is the framing right if 
a computer is doing it. Would that be a huge benefit to the 
construction process?
    Dr. McCoy. Yes it would, if we can get there, right? Right 
now, we have different authorities holding jurisdiction that we 
need to educate, and so we need to have processes that can 
streamline those processes, make sure that we agree to their 
safety and quality, and then I think we can move forward.
    Mr. Timmons. Sure. Thank you. Mr. Schaefer, understanding 
that only a few hundred 3D-printed homes were built last year, 
how long do you believe it will take before this technology can 
realistically scale up and begin making a meaningful impact on 
our Nation's housing crisis?
    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you for the question. Again, this is 
not my area of expertise. The one thing I will say about 3D 
printing, I think it is in the early stages, right? We have 18 
stations in our factory. A 3D printer would only help with 
stations one and two; so, this is an emerging possibility, and 
the hope is that it will be one piece of the puzzle in the 
future.
    Mr. Timmons. Sure. Thank you. Dr. McCoy, across the world, 
are other countries further advanced than we are in adopting 3D 
printing?
    Dr. McCoy. That is a very good question. Thank you for the 
question. They are moving forward quickly, and so we are doing 
what we can to keep up. Mostly, the work has been done in 3D 
concrete printing when it comes to buildings. We do have some 
polymer-based printing, but typically, that is not for the 
entire building, right, for the walls and the structure. A lot 
of the work we have been doing has been in trying to understand 
new materials for this process, understand how the code 
processes would work, how we can integrate with existing 
processes as well.
    Mr. Timmons. Sure. Thank you for that. I want to shift 
attention to another innovative solution in housing that 
Chairman Flood discussed earlier: single section cross-mod 
homes. These homes combine the efficiency and speed of modern 
manufactured housing with the look and features of traditional 
site-built homes, such as higher roof pitches, front porches, 
and permanent foundations. Cross-mod homes finance and appraise 
like site-built homes, and according to Federal Housing Finance 
Agency (FHFA) House Price Index, they have appreciated at rates 
similar to traditional homes since 2020. This innovation 
presents a real opportunity to increase attainable single-
family housing without sacrificing quality or long-term value. 
Mr. Boor, can you discuss how this innovation can help expand 
homeownership opportunities for a broader range of Americans, 
particularly in terms of terms of affordability, financing, and 
long-term value retention?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. I mean, we have talked about anything that 
you would call priced in a starter home category. I think 
cross-mod homes are really the thing that can fill in that void 
because it is so much less expensive, and yet the quality and 
aesthetics are comparable with what people would expect from a 
site-built starter home. It is really filling a gap that home 
builders are vacating by not being able to hit those price 
points.
    Mr. Timmons. Sure. Thank you for that. Mr. Chairman, I am 
out of time. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman 
from Texas, Ms. Garcia, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much 
for bringing attention to the housing crisis. I think we can 
all agree that there is a housing crisis, not just in some 
States, but throughout America. I know, Mr. Chairman, we had 
another subcommittee hearing where we had the head of the 
homebuilders here, and he responded to some questions I had 
specifically that I have today for Mr. Boor and Mr. Schaefer, 
who are the for-profit builders here. What impact will the 
tariffs have on your construction? I know, Mr. Boor, you were 
asked that question by Mr. Torres, but you kind of hedged there 
a little bit, so specifically, and all I need is a percent. I 
do not need a whole explanation for it. What percent do you 
anticipate the increased cost in your building due to the 
tariffs?
    Mr. Boor. I think I was volunteered to go first on this 
one.
    Ms. Garcia. I asked you first, so yes.
    Mr. Boor. Okay.
    Ms. Garcia. I just need a number. I do not need an 
explanation.
    Mr. Boor. The difficulty is that the tariffs keep moving on 
us, as you know, so it is part of uncertainty on this----
    Ms. Garcia. That is part of the problem with the----
    Mr. Boor. Right, on our cost structure----
    Ms. Garcia [continuing]. with the tariffs is it is 
unpredictable, and it is one thing today and another thing 
tomorrow, but today, what is the impact?
    Mr. Boor. In our cost structure, I would tell you it would 
be in the low-single digits on the cost side.
    Ms. Garcia. What number, sir?
    Mr. Boor. I do not have a specific number. Below 5 percent.
    Ms. Garcia. I am sorry?
    Mr. Boor. Below 5 percent, based on the tariffs----
    Ms. Garcia. Below 5 percent?
    Mr. Boor [continuing]. Based on the tariffs that exist 
today.
    Ms. Garcia. All right. You do use some steel products, do 
you not?
    Mr. Boor. Yes.
    Ms. Garcia. Because those comes from Canada, and I know 
that was a big concern for the home builders, the lumber and 
the steel products from Canada.
    Mr. Boor. Yes, and I believe those have been reversed back 
to the preexisting tariffs.
    Ms. Garcia. They are on pause because of the North American 
Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), but they will come back.
    Mr. Boor. Correct.
    Ms. Garcia. Trust me.
    Mr. Boor. Correct.
    Ms. Garcia. What about the modular homes, Mr. Schaefer?
    Mr. Schaefer. Yes. Our homes--thank you for the question--
are built with lumber, so that would be the one that we would 
be watching. So----
    Ms. Garcia. What percent would that be, sir? I just need a 
number.
    Mr. Schaefer. Five percent.
    Ms. Garcia. Five percent. Would it surprise both of you 
that the home builder said about 25 to 40 percent, just 
tariffs? Now, you also use a lot of labor, and there will be a 
shortage of labor with the increased deportations and 
immigration enforcement. What percent would that impact, and, 
Mr. Schaefer, you will go first this time.
    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you for the question. Yes, we have not 
had a shortage of labor. We have about 110 folks in our 
factories.
    Ms. Garcia. I just need a number, sir.
    Mr. Schaefer. Zero.
    Ms. Garcia. Zero? You will have no impact?
    Mr. Schaefer. No impact.
    Ms. Garcia. You have all the workers in the world.
    Mr. Schaefer. Correct.
    Ms. Garcia. That is very nice. You are probably the only 
sector I have ever talked to that has responded in that way, 
and Mr. Boor?
    Mr. Boor. I would appreciate 1 minute to just talk, that 
the one thing about the difference you are hearing for now----
    Ms. Garcia. Sir, I just need a number because I have only 
got 2 more minutes left.
    Mr. Boor. I would agree with the zero percent on labor 
because we are hiring unskilled labor, and we are training 
them.
    Ms. Garcia. So the tariffs do not impact you much? 
Immigration? None at all?
    Mr. Boor. We have not seen an impact on labor of any----
    Ms. Garcia. Would it surprise you to know that the 
homebuilders had 30 percent based on immigration deportations, 
and that was----
    Mr. Boor. What I wanted to point out is that our 
processes----
    Ms. Garcia. Sir, I did not ask you a question. Let me move 
on. Sir, I want to go to Mr. Fleu, and, Mr. Fleu, thank you for 
your work. I was a legal aid lawyer myself, and my favorite tee 
shirt was one that said, ``Housing for People, Not for 
Profits.'' I was in the housing section. I used to have it 
until I had this horrible accident in Mexico, and my van blew 
up and everything in it; so, I lost the tee shirt. I wanted to 
ask you a question about extreme heat, hurricane events, 
weather events, and the risk to manufactured homes. Can you 
talk just a little bit about that? I am from Houston. We have a 
lot of hurricanes, and we do not have that many manufactured 
homes in Houston, but there are pockets around Houston that are 
semi-rural that do.
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you for the question. I can speak to the 
issue briefly. As everyone knows, these homes that we are 
talking about that are on non-permanent foundations on piers 
are secured primarily through the hurricane straps, metal 
strapping, ultimately secured to the ground by a large screw. 
What we see, not just in high-wind events, but in high-water 
events, we see a lot of flash flooding events in West Virginia. 
There has been a lot of news about the storms that hit North 
Carolina and the issues that they have had with the homes. The 
other thing that I would like to mention, and maybe I am 
dealing with mainly older homes, but when these homes become 
waterlogged when they suffer from a natural disaster event, it 
is not like you call in Servpro, and they vacuum out your 
basement. These homes suffer for the rest of their existence 
through mold issues from other deterioration, and I think it is 
a very important issue that you have identified.
    Ms. Garcia. Right. It would be a mistake to dismantle or do 
away with FEMA.
    Mr. Fleu. It would be a mistake.
    Ms. Garcia. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The 
gentlewoman from Texas, Ms. De La Cruz, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you, chairman, and thank you to the 
witnesses for being here today.
    I am from deep South Texas, the tip of Texas. It is a 
largely Hispanic community and a community that has a humble 
average income for families; so, low cost in housing is 
something very, very important to me. Affordability is 
important to me, and I am excited that the work that we are 
doing here in this committee is to find meaningful solutions to 
end the housing crisis. I am especially interested in ending 
homelessness for veterans as well, and this is why I am proud 
to have a bill that helps address this for disabled veterans, 
which is H.R. 225, the Disabled Veterans Housing Support Act. 
As I said, it passed successfully out of the of the House and 
will, God willing, pass out of the Senate, as well.
    That being said, when we worked on this bill, what we found 
was that there are simple legislation changes that can be made 
that can be bipartisan and make tremendous impact on a 
community, in this case, veterans. While I was listening to her 
discussion today, I realized how important manufactured homes 
are to solving affordability and housing in our Nation, 
especially given all the advancements in construction. 3D 
printing, 3D building is very interesting, quality, making sure 
that it is quality. Texas is home to the most total shipments 
of manufactured homes, and while manufactured homes are less 
expensive, they have seen a percentage cost increase, much like 
our standard brick homes.
    Mr. Boor, what do you think are key Federal changes that we 
can make to reduce the price of manufactured housing for Texans 
and for all Americans?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. The price that matters to the people you are 
talking about is their monthly cost, and there are some very 
clear actions to be taken on the financing side, encouraging 
directing the GSEs, in particular, and FHA to develop programs 
they have talked about for a long time for home-only financing. 
I would imagine in your area--I know, because we are in those 
markets--that there are a lot of people there that are buying 
home only, and they need that kind of loan. The GSEs really do 
not support that at all, and if they did, the cost of those 
loans would come down, and the monthly cost, which matters to 
those people, would be reduced. A lot of people are right on 
the outside of affordability, and that makes a big difference.
    Ms. De La Cruz. So GSEs, you said they do not support the 
manufactured home buyer?
    Mr. Boor. No. Under their duty-to-serve programs, they have 
talked about pilot programs and other efforts to get into this 
segment, and yet, we have really seen very little activity, so 
it would be a huge impact on people being able to get in. There 
are so many people just outside of affordability. If you get 
that efficiency, that secondary market for home-only loans, 
their monthly cost comes down, and they can afford it.
    Ms. De La Cruz. You said they were developing programs. Is 
it a funding issue for them? Why do you think the GSEs have not 
supported manufactured housing?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. I am hesitant to speculate on the reasons. I 
think it is a small market for them. What they would tell you 
is they do not have data about the risk reward, but in the 
public market with investors, they are pretty attracted to the 
risk reward. I think a secondary market would bring that 
interest rate down and again, have a huge impact on the number 
of families that could afford a home.
    Ms. De La Cruz. That has been very helpful. Thank you. I 
appreciate that. I know I do not have very much time left, but 
we talked about financing. I am very curious about the 3D 
building. I will just ask Dr. McCoy or Mr. Schaefer about the 
3D building, and modernizing workforce. You said, it is very 
important to make sure that we have the workforce to be able to 
produce this. Can you speak briefly to this?
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. Yes, this is a 
critical aspect of getting more workers into this industry. 
Right now, we have a labor shortage, considerable. I have heard 
today that maybe that might not be in the factories, and so we 
are seeing that definitely in construction sites and across the 
industry in many different ways. Getting more people excited, 
changing the perception of this industry, I think it will go a 
long way and then talking to younger generations about how 
exciting all of the different opportunities are, the different 
technologies that we are working with, it will go a long way to 
making this a great economy-building industry.
    Ms. De La Cruz. Thank you. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The 
gentlewoman from Georgia, Ms. Williams, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Thank you, Chairman Flood and 
Ranking Member Cleaver, and to all of our witnesses for having 
this discussion today because you all, I understand that 
manufactured housing can be an important tool in our tool kit 
to help ensure that everyone, no matter their zip code, has a 
roof over their head. In fact, I have benefited from this. See, 
I grew up in rural Alabama, and I grew up in a home that had no 
indoor plumbing and no running water. I remember when my Aunt 
Pat purchased a manufactured home, and it was the first home 
that I lived in that had indoor plumbing and running water. I 
now live in downtown Atlanta, you all, and so I represent a 
district that this just is not possible.
    I listened to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, 
and I can tell that this hearing, while it would benefit many 
of my relatives, many people that I grew up with in rural 
Alabama, it would not do anything for most of the constituents 
that I represent in the heart of the city of Atlanta because 
there is simply no place that the people of Atlanta can have a 
manufactured home. You all, they need housing, too, because we 
have all agreed that affordable housing is a crisis in this 
country. My constituents have been quite vocal about this one-
size-fits-all solution that is being forced on them, and I am 
their voice in Congress. So I have an obligation to speak up on 
their behalf. They are begging my colleagues to not gut HUD. 
They are begging my colleagues to not get rid of affordable 
housing programs and they are asking for us to do something 
that will benefit so many Americans that are struggling, to 
meet them where they are and deal with Trump and his 
administration's skyrocketing housing costs, because here is 
the truth of the matter, you all.
    While this convo today would help a small segment of the 
country; my constituents would be left behind and still 
struggling. Why else would my Republican colleagues focus this 
week on kicking people off of healthcare, raising costs with 
reckless tariffs, or gutting SNAP benefits for the most 
vulnerable families? You all, this, too, is personal for me 
because I benefited from SNAP growing up. It was called food 
stamps at the time when I grew up in the 1980s and 1990s when I 
was raised by my grandparents, but I would not be here in 
Congress today, serving the people that I represent, if the 
Trump Administration and my colleagues had their way with a lot 
of the policies that we are forcing on the American people 
today. What I know is that we have a job to do, and if my 
colleagues really care about affordable housing for all 
Americans, they will work with us to ensure that housing is 
affordable for the lowest-income families.
    Mr. Boor, this is a very simple question. Do not need all 
the details in background. My Republican colleagues say they 
want to make manufactured homes and homes in general cheaper, 
which is a noble idea, but President Trump is putting tariff 
taxes on steel and aluminum coming from some of our biggest 
trade partners, like Canada and Mexico. That is the stuff that 
we build homes with, you all. Mr. Boor, simple question, will 
Trump's tariff taxes make prices for new homes increase or 
decrease? Increase or decrease, Mr. Boor?
    Mr. Boor. We talked earlier. It is probably the same single 
digit----
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Just increase or decrease, Mr. 
Boor.
    Mr. Boor. Price increase.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. Increase. That is right. Mr. Boor, 
recent data from Home Builders shows that Trump's tariff taxes 
are adding almost $11,000 to the cost of an average home, but 
the good news is, you all, is that I actually have solutions to 
bring costs down. In fact, a few weeks back in a committee 
markup, I offered an amendment that will increase funding for 
the Community Block Grant and Home Investment Partnerships 
programs. These programs are lifelines used to help States and 
local communities to preserve and rehabilitate homes and low-
income communities. Unfortunately, my Republican colleagues all 
voted against it, and President Trump has proposed eliminating 
these programs entirely. As if an $11,000 tax increase was not 
enough for struggling families, my Republican colleagues, you 
all, they just want to keep it going.
    Mr. Fleu, if Republicans got their way and eliminated these 
programs, what would happen to the average price of affordable 
housing across the Country?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you, Congresswoman. First of all, I am here 
in a nonpartisan capacity, but to answer your question, they 
would soar.
    Ms. Williams of Georgia. The facts are the facts, Mr. Fleu, 
and you are right, they would soar, but now, it is not going to 
solve everything, you all. If Republicans are serious about 
making manufactured homes part of the solution, which they 
absolutely should be, we need to make sure that these homes are 
built to last and insured. Just last year, my district was hit 
with two hurricanes, and I live in Atlanta, you all. We are not 
even coastal. There is nothing costlier than a damaged home 
that cannot be repaired. Mr. Fleu, my time is up, but I have 
more questions for all of our witnesses that I will submit for 
the record, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The 
gentlewoman from Florida, Ms. Salazar, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman Flood, for putting 
together this very important and interesting hearing, and my 
first question is for any of you would like to answer. My name 
is Maria Salazar. I represent the city of Miami. Miami is now 
in fashion. Everyone wants to move to Miami. There are tall, 
pretty, nice, expensive buildings being bought by the New 
Yorkers, but the problem is that one of the biggest issues 
facing the constituents, the regular Miami resident, is housing 
costs. I have never really understood why this is. When I have 
spoken with the developers, they say that the land is too 
expensive and they cannot buy the land, then they make their 
money because they are in the private sector, not like us that 
we are in the public one serving the public.
    So the modular homes, do you think that maybe that could 
help this problem? I am talking about the land costs, but then 
you have to put on top of that the construction expense. Any of 
you that would like to tell me, give me some hope about Miami 
and the overall housing costs coming down. Who is familiar with 
Florida?
    Mr. Boor. I will take a swing. Yes, I think the land cost 
issue is somewhat of a given, and so what you have to look for 
is density. I mean, this whole problem is a supply side 
problem. This is not about throwing money at higher-cost homes. 
It is about supply, and so if we can get more housing units on 
that expensive land, then we win, right? More supply. So, I 
think the pessimism about what manufactured housing can do in 
urban environments is unwarranted. We have innovated with 
duplexes and other solutions that get more units on the same 
piece of land, so I think it is a supply problem, and that is 
the solution.
    Ms. Salazar. All right. Any other comments? Any 
suggestions? If you were to be talking right now to one of the 
developers that do want to provide what you just explained, 
what would you say to them?
    Mr. Boor. First, I would talk about density, but I would 
also point out that order of magnitude, the cost of placing our 
units is about 30 percent less than the cost of a site built, 
and so if they want to lower their cost to try to hit 
affordable price points, density and manufactured solutions.
    Ms. Salazar. So that would entail to changing the zoning 
laws, as well----
    Mr. Boor. Correct.
    Ms. Salazar [continuing]. with the dense----
    Mr. Boor. Change the zoning and allow us to innovate with 
products that fit in those environments.
    Ms. Salazar. What about this other idea that I was hearing 
about, the accessory dwelling units, which are similar to 
little efficiencies? Could you explain a little bit more 
because we have so many----
    Mr. Boor. Yes, that is like creating land. This is not 
something an economy----
    Ms. Salazar. Creating what again?
    Mr. Boor. Excuse me?
    Ms. Salazar. Creating?
    Mr. Boor. Creating land is what I would say, and that is 
not a----
    Ms. Salazar. Oh, creating land.
    Mr. Boor. That is not a concept that an economist would 
agree with me on, but people have backyards that are available, 
and if they can put a rental or a mother-in-law-type unit in 
the backyard, you have placed another unit in a dense area 
which grows the supply and lowers the cost of housing.
    Ms. Salazar. Sure, and then why is that not happening more 
often in Florida? Do you have any idea?
    Mr. Boor. I think they are slow to take it up. I think if 
you looked at L.A., as an example, L.A. has really grabbed onto 
this idea and removed the barriers.
    Ms. Salazar. Could you just give me a picture of what the 
accessory dwelling unit looks like?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. They are typically much smaller. What we see 
a lot in L.A. County that I have used an example is people 
leveling their detached garage, on that footprint, putting a 
400 to 500 self-contained living unit, and that could be 
rented----
    Ms. Salazar. All right. With a kitchen and a bathroom, 
everything that a little home entails?
    Mr. Boor [continuing]. Everything, and that unit can be 
rented to the schoolteachers and the nurses and the fire people 
that cannot afford to live in those areas that they serve, and 
now, again, you have lowered the incremental cost of rent and 
increased housing.
    Ms. Salazar. How much does a 500-square-feet unit accessory 
dwelling unit may cost?
    Mr. Boor. One might be--and I am winging it here--but basic 
one might be $50,000 to $60,000, and it can be as nice as you 
want to make them.
    Ms. Salazar. Wow. Great. How do we access that? Give me 
two.
    Mr. Boor. Oh, how do you get it----
    Ms. Salazar. Meaning, I think it is a very innovative idea. 
I had not heard about it, but I definitely would like to know 
more so we can share this new concept with the rest of the 
developers that are desperate.
    Mr. Boor. We are developing the case studies in some 
municipalities. It is a great solution.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you. I yield back. Thanks.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The 
gentlewoman from Michigan, Ms. Tlaib, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Tlaib. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We know that when private 
equity firms purchase manufacturing housing communities, 
residents can face new regulations, as we know, higher rents, 
and even displacement or eviction. In Michigan, 1 in 10 
manufacturing housing communities are owned by private equity 
firms. Private equity firms have purchased manufactured housing 
communities in my own district called Crestwood Estates, and 
Dearborn Heights is one of them, and one of the residents in 
Crestwood Estates had reached out. She is a seasoned resident. 
In March, she called us, reached out, and after her community 
was purchased by a private equity firm, her rent went up 65 
percent. That is before the water, sewage, trash, and other 
fees were added on. She told me that some of her neighbors have 
lived there for 20 or 30 years, but now most of us cannot even 
afford to live here anymore, and they have no place to go.
    Mr. Fleu, in your testimony, you noted that residents of 
manufactured housing communities are overwhelmingly people on 
fixed income, like my resident that I mentioned. Can you touch 
base on many of our seasoned residents? Ironically, for some 
reason, a lot of my veteran neighbors really like living in 
manufactured home communities, as you probably know, and we 
have a lot of residents living with disabilities on fixed 
income that also, in particular, face financial disruptions and 
so forth. Can you talk a little bit about what those impacts 
look like post private equity firms buying out these 
manufactured communities?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. What 
those impacts look like are, frankly, pitiful. You see people 
that have lived in communities for decades, as you have 
mentioned, that find themselves homeless. You find people that 
have lived in communities for decades that start having all 
kinds of health issues because of the stress that this 
increased rent has put on them. You find people that have 
enjoyed a community for years and interacted with their 
neighbors that no longer feel that sense of community because 
people have left, the conditions have deteriorated, et cetera. 
If I may, I would suggest that one of the issues with private 
equity would be providing incentives for sellers to sell to 
residents and incentives for residents to purchase their own 
communities and convert----
    Ms. Tlaib. I love that. We actually been talking about it. 
For people listening to this committee, I know we are not the 
most popular committee today, but one of the things we have 
been talking about on our team is the resident-owned 
communities of having kind of an approach of resident-owned, 
having the homeowner have a share in the governing of it, the 
oversight and so forth, and having some way to even vote on 
some of the conditions of the facility, and I am glad you 
mentioned it. If you can talk about the benefits--and again, 
this is new to many people in the public--called resident-owned 
communities a little bit. I know in the past, you have heard 
and I know the ranking member has heard, cooperatives 
structured as cooperatives and things like that. If my mom or 
your mom was in this room, how would you explain that and the 
benefits of it?
    Mr. Fleu. Sure. It is the difference between an apartment 
building and a condo.
    Ms. Tlaib. That is right.
    Mr. Fleu. By allowing residents to actually purchase the 
communities they live in, the homes are better upkept, the 
conditions in the communities themselves are generally more 
improved, the upkeep is improved, but like you say, it gives an 
ownership. It gives, basically, a real piece of land that goes 
with the home, and it allows people to have that pride of 
ownership and to have that asset that they do not have when 
they only own the home, but they are basically powerless with 
regards to the decisions made about the----
    Ms. Tlaib. In your testimony, you actually mentioned the 
abusive financial practices faced by purchasers of manufactured 
homes and I know in the past, Consumer Financial Protection 
Bureau (CFPB) had exposed those practices and pursued bad 
actors. However, I know the current administration is not 
interested in doing that. In my opinion, I do not see that 
being something of a commitment. Does the weakening of consumer 
protections mean that borrowers, like my constituent seeking to 
purchase, are exposed to some of these fraudulent schemes?
    Mr. Fleu. Absolutely, and the weakening of consumer 
protections is a snowball effect.
    Ms. Tlaib. Uh-huh.
    Mr. Fleu. One bad actor breeds another bad actor, breeds 
another.
    Ms. Tlaib. Yes, Mr. Fleu, you should have seen--I do not 
know, chairman, I should have brought the article. One of our 
manufacturing homes owned by a private equity firm, they just 
had no water access because he did not pay it. I mean, it is 
private equity firm, but they had that one person. He did not 
pay it. They did not have water. I do not know, I just feel 
like these are some of our most vulnerable, and we should do 
more. Thank you.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The gentleman 
from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald, is now recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chairman. Mr. Boor, did I hear 
you right when I first walked in, you said one of the answers 
to the housing shortage is to move your mother-in-law out in 
the backyard? Build her a separate place, or how would that 
work? Who is going to deliver that message?
    The Next Generation Housing Initiative in Washington 
County, Wisconsin, is a locally driven effort to expand 
affordable homeownership for middle-income families by 
developing a thousand new owner-occupied homes by 2032. It is 
backed by $10 million in county investment. The program 
provides infrastructure subsidies to developers and down 
payment assistance to buyers up to $20,000 per home. It sets 
clear affordability targets, requiring 40 percent of homes to 
be sold under $340,000, and all under $420,000. Obviously, what 
we are focused on is reducing the development costs, expanding 
housing options and the initiative also promotes zoning reforms 
that allow for smaller lots and diverse housing types, like 
duplexes and townhouses. It is an example of a public private 
advisory group that cannot only implement this but oversee 
this.
    Mr. Schaefer, I think you are familiar with the concept. I 
am going to ask you, from your vantage point and working 
closely with developers and local governments and nonprofits, I 
know you have seen a lot of changes and maneuvering on some of 
those challenges to building affordability. Have you seen 
programs similar to this throughout the Nation starting to 
develop, or do you think something similar could be kind of 
scaled down maybe, and used at the Federal level? I was 
wondering what your thoughts are on that.
    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you for your question, and what you 
just described is, basically, what we have been doing 
throughout the State of Colorado. It is municipalities and the 
State tackling this missing middle, so 80 to 120 percent of the 
area median income (AMI), which you described on this 
particular project. Yes, higher-density townhomes are a part of 
it. It could be duplexes, up to four or five or six plexes, and 
then the public-private partnership piece, or you could add 
philanthropic, as well, into that piece, which it sounds like 
you are doing. These are going on throughout all the mountain 
towns and really throughout the State of Colorado, very similar 
to what you did, so you hit on all the main points.
    The only one that I might add is, again, you are focusing 
on the demand side. The one piece we are challenging folks to 
is to look at the supply side. Building one factory in the 
State of Wisconsin could provide 500 affordable homes per year. 
With everything that you just mentioned in this initiative, we 
would just want to add that to it.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Very good. Thank you so much. Mr. Boor, 
government-mandated caps and regulations on single-family 
rentals reduces supply of housing. It has kind of been 
discussed, I know, this morning, but studies have shown minimum 
lot size requirements restrictions on multifamily housing 
developments and the lengthy permitting process, which, if you 
are a Member of Congress, you hear every time you are in the 
district and you talk to somebody that is a builder themselves. 
Do you believe that there is an increase in the number of 
single-family rental homes that are available, and how could 
this improve overall housing affordability? I guess, what is 
the effect on the pricing?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. There is a huge need for rental solutions, 
as well. I think the challenge, and this relates to your 
earlier question. The challenge is not only on the financing 
and funding side but it is also getting entitlement to do these 
expansions. Communities, whether they are rental or land lease, 
provide homes for a lot of people in this country, and they are 
very satisfied with their living situation. To further your 
point, I think some of the lot size requirements is one form of 
zoning restriction that keeps manufactured housing out of urban 
developments. We have not even cracked the opportunity of 
infill with factory-built housing, and it is because of those 
kinds of restrictions that you are mentioning.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentlewoman 
from Oregon, Ms. Bynum, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Fleu, in my home State 
of Oregon, I have noticed how private equity firms have 
significantly increased investments in manufactured housing 
communities. From your work, have you seen any impact on the 
cost to renters when entire manufactured housing communities 
are purchased on a systematic scale? One point to note, we in 
the State have suffered from extraordinary wildfire events, and 
so many families rely on the accessibility of being able to 
move into a manufactured housing community pretty quickly. So 
that is why this is really important to us.
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you for the question. As explained a little 
further in my written testimony that was submitted, I have 
never seen private equity or a hedge fund buy a manufactured 
housing community and not increase rents as the first thing 
they do. Unfortunately, that is often coupled with a decrease 
in investment in the community, allowing infrastructure to 
deteriorate and living conditions to worsen.
    Ms. Bynum. My second question for you. Manufactured housing 
is the largest source of unsubsidized affordable housing stock, 
and it represents an essential source of affordable housing, 
particularly for seniors. I remember going door-to-door one 
time, and seniors were pretty upset because a row of the homes 
had been condemned because they were noted by the county as 
being very close to falling into the river, and that was, of 
course, a challenge for them, and I asked them if there was a 
replacement, and they said no. So that was particularly 
stressing for them.
    From your perspective, what specific risks come from the 
aggressive purchasing of manufactured housing communities, 
particularly to vulnerable populations like seniors, veterans, 
low-income families, and what actions, from a policy 
standpoint, do you think Congress should take to mitigate these 
risks? One more quick point on this, when I asked the question 
earlier in a committee about capital, the response was that we 
should be agnostic to the type of capital that comes in to do a 
particular job. Okay. That is fair. That was in respect to 
young people being able to buy their first home. I think the 
challenge now is that we have a legislative opportunity here. 
We have a policy decision to make, irrespective of the money, 
but what should we be doing? What should we be thinking about 
to making that policy decision?
    Mr. Fleu. Thank you. I will answer that last question, but 
to sort of go back to the first question, when you have people 
on fixed incomes, when you have vulnerable communities, low-
income communities, the median household income (MHI), they 
released a study that says the average increase year over year 
in manufactured housing communities, land leased communities, 
6.5 percent, I believe. The average increase for this year is 
2.5 percent, so there is just no way that someone that is on 
fixed benefits can keep up and keep a roof over their head. 
Answering your last question, I think that the government can 
incentivize. I think, again, we are all talking about the need 
for further expansion of GSE-backed loans, but I think part and 
parcel of that expansion must come with rules from those GSE 
that require certain treatment, certain benefits to the 
residents of these communities.
    Ms. Bynum. Thank you. I guess in closing--Mr. Fleu, thank 
you for your testimony--I am really concerned about threats to 
affordable housing that could create these conditions where 
seniors are pushed out of their communities and veterans on 
fixed incomes, as you have just mentioned, are hit with rent 
hikes that they cannot afford, and I think that this is 
happening without transparency. Congress needs to provide some 
level of guardrails so that we shore up the market, make sure 
that it continues to be there, and especially as we try to 
replace housing in areas where wildfires have really hit home. 
I am committed to working with my colleagues on both sides of 
the aisle to ensure that we get a safe, affordable, and steady 
housing stock. I do not think our homes should be necessarily 
an opportunity for just the outright profit. It is a source of 
intergenerational wealth for many families, just keeping a roof 
over their head, but I think this is more about dignity and 
opportunity for families. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
    Chairman Flood. The gentlewoman yields back. The gentleman 
from California, Mr. Liccardo, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for 
allowing me to waive on. I would like to think I am becoming an 
honorary member of the subcommittee. Thank you, and I 
appreciate your willingness to hold this important meeting 
because innovation in the housing industry is critical. I have 
certainly seen that in my time as a mayor. In the city of San 
Jose, we actually have more mobile home residents than any 
other city in the country, and we relied heavily on 
prefabricated modular housing for many solutions, and, frankly, 
we need much more.
    I do share Mr. Torres' view, though, that the public is 
being presented with a false choice between innovation and 
sensible housing safety net programs, and we desperately need 
both. We do need innovation construction development. We also 
know that the actions that either have been taken or being 
contemplated to decimate Section 8, for example, requiring 2-
year limitations, for example, cutting already thousands of 
families off the program. Section 8 already fails to serve 
about three-quarters of American families that qualify for it 
by income; so, the devastation we are going to see from the 
cuts there, in that and other similar programs, the tariffs on 
Canadian lumber and Chinese steel, none of these are making our 
efforts to combat the housing crisis any easier.
    My concern is that as millions of Americans will suffer 
from both these cuts and poor economic strategies, we are going 
to see more people pushed out in the street, and communities 
are going to take a generation to recover because we know that 
arsonists can move much faster than home builders can. I would 
urge Congress to move carefully, very carefully, in dismantling 
these critical safety net programs.
    I want to get to the heart here of what we are discussing 
here today, and I certainly saw the benefits of prefabricated 
modular housing, particularly with regard to ADUs, backyard 
homes. We created programs, partnering with manufactured home 
builders, identifying a couple dozen preapproved floor plans so 
that our planning department could enable homeowners to get a 
permit in a single day by going online and choosing one of the 
preapproved plans. We saw the permits for ADUs backyard homes 
skyrocketed from about 15 a year back in 2015 to more than 800 
by 2019. Huge opportunities. The problem was homeowners got the 
permits, but what we were told over and over is that many of 
them were not getting shovels in the ground because they could 
not get the financing. For modest income homeowners, there is 
just no simple tools to enable them if they do not have enough 
equity in their homes to be able to expand housing in their own 
neighborhoods where we know there is great opportunity for many 
cities, like San Jose, that want to provide that opportunity.
    We are working on a bill now, and I certainly welcome my 
colleagues who may be interested in this, to provide that 
opportunity, essentially, through a mandate to FHA. I would 
welcome any of our witnesses as to any opinions that you might 
have about what opportunities there are for innovation in 
financing, particularly with Fannie-or Freddie-backed lending, 
that could actually unlock this great opportunity we have with 
land in lots of cities throughout this country. We have ample 
land and not enough housing.
    Mr. Boor. I will jump in. I think you are right on point. I 
mean, what we have seen, whether it is ADUs or duplexes, any of 
these solutions that can help particularly in more urban 
environments, is that the physical product innovation happens 
first, and it sometimes takes a long time for the financing to 
catch up with it. I do think there is some direction that could 
be given to the government entities--FHA, Freddie, and Fannie--
to accelerate development of those programs. In some cases, I 
will tell you like duplexes, as an example, I get in 
discussions, and they talk about the problems and what they do 
not know and then I say, well, do you fund site-built duplexes, 
and right away they say, oh yes, we do that. What is the 
difference? These homes are not going to move. They are built 
to the same quality, but there seems to be a difficulty of just 
jumping over the mindset that somehow manufactured housing 
should be treated differently in financing, and I think you 
guys can encourage those entities to think differently and 
move.
    Mr. Liccardo. Thank you. I agree, and we are going to push. 
I would point out, and, Mr. Boor, I appreciate your comments, 
and I agree very much with your suggestion about the need for 
preemptive approaches around antiquated restrictions, around 
chassis requirements, and so forth, and I would support some 
preemption, but I am very concerned about preemption and safety 
requirements. I know your own company faced those very 
challenges, as I understand, as recently as last year with a 
$270,000 fine that was considered from the Department of Labor 
regarding safety. We do need minimum requirements around 
safety, on construction, and on occupation. I hope you agree.
    Mr. Boor. You are talking about factory safety.
    Mr. Liccardo. That is right.
    Mr. Boor. Yes, very proud of our record there. We are well 
below the industry average, but it is very important. I would 
not disagree with you at all.
    Mr. Liccardo. All right. I am concerned because I know 
Cavco certainly had its challenges----
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Liccardo [continuing]. and we certainly do not want to 
replicate that. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The gentleman 
from Montana, Mr. Downing, is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you, Chairman Flood. Montana, between 
2018 and 2013, has seen just staggering increase in the median 
home values. It went almost 90 percent, 89.6 percent, and 
during that same time, median household income increased by 
about 28 percent. On one hand, you have almost a 90 percent 
increase in cost or value, and you have less than a 30 percent 
in income. Obviously, those numbers are not tracking. The 
median home price in Livingston, Montana, is $640,000, or in 
Helena, $600,000, and something I think about often is the 
American dream. Homeownership, to me, is foundational. It is a 
cornerstone to the American Dream.
    So, how do we solve this problem? Obviously we need to 
figure out ways of getting people into homes, finding it 
cheaper, and I have said these statistics on this committee 
before. I think this was from the homebuilders who estimate 
that every $1,000 extra that it costs to build a home, you are 
eliminating about 106,000 possible people that can buy that 
home, so we need to find solutions here. I am going to first 
turn to innovation. I was a tech entrepreneur, and I am a firm 
believer that the United States needs to embrace and lead in 
innovation, innovative solutions, increased efficiencies, make 
products more affordable to everyone, so I am excited about the 
idea of 3D printed homes. I am excited about this. I am going 
to start with Dr. McCoy.
    You already spoke earlier today about the potential 
benefits of 3D printing technologies. Are there any other 
possible innovative solutions to increase the supply of 
affordable housing that might not even be on our radar right 
now?
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. Yes, I think if you 
look at artificial intelligence right now, we have a lot of 
opportunities to take antiquated records, permitting processes, 
planning processes, we can look at a lot of the different 
systems we are currently using, and we can work toward more 
efficient processes in that. That could speed up our 
construction and scheduling, of course, and hopefully, allow us 
to produce more units faster.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you.
    Dr. McCoy. That is one area.
    Mr. Downing. I am going to move on to energy. I am all for 
energy efficiency. I live in Montana. Energy efficiency is 
important. This can be for Mr. Boor. What impact does the 
imposition of Federal energy codes by the Department of Energy 
have on the cost and availability of manufactured housing in 
America?
    Mr. Boor. Yes, that attempted rulemaking, because it was 
somewhat ill-advised and out of sequence with how we 
manufacture and transport homes, it was poorly targeted, and we 
have estimated that there is a lot of variation in assessment, 
with $5,000 to $6,000 of added cost for the consumer. Our 
industry has come forward and said we can get similar 
efficiency improvements in ways that work for us and it would 
not drive that cost, and that is the importance of the HUD 
process.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. I am going to move on to Mr. 
Schaefer. Some places completely prohibit manufactured homes. 
Do you notice any difference in housing affordability in areas 
that allow manufactured homes versus those that do not?
    Mr. Schaefer. Thank you for the question, and, again, we 
deal with or we build modular homes, not manufactured homes, so 
I am not sure I am the right person to answer this. Again, for 
us, if the communities or the State allow for regional codes 
that allow us to build faster, quicker, more efficiently, very 
similar in Colorado as it is in Montana.
    Mr. Downing. Thank you. Mr. Boor, do you agree or do you 
have anything to add there?
    Mr. Boor. It is all about supply. I mean, your starting 
point about the relative increase of housing and incomes in 
Montana proves the point that what we need is supply. So turn 
us loose, give us a level playing field, and we will increase 
the supply.
    Mr. Downing. I appreciate that. Kind of building on that, 
can you talk about how prefabricated homes can increase the 
supply of affordable housing in rural areas where there is not 
much development? We can go back to Mr. Boor.
    Mr. Boor. Yes, we traditionally have covered rural areas 
pretty effectively. I think the next frontier, and it is a big 
one, is to get into suburban and urban areas, and that is where 
a combination of product innovation and zoning improvements 
would allow us to do a big job.
    Mr. Downing. My last couple of seconds, to anybody on the 
panel, any other barriers that have not been discussed today 
that prevent prefabricated homes from being utilized? It looks 
like I ran out of time, so I am sorry to get that late. Mr. 
Chair, I yield.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. The chair now 
recognizes the good gentleman from New York, saving the best 
for last. Mr. Garbarino is now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garbarino. I do not think I have ever been called the 
best before, but thank you, Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for being here.
    Recent data from the National Association of Realtors 
highlights a critical shortage of housing, particularly for 
first-time homebuyers and in the moderate income price range. 
First-time buyers decreased to 24 percent of the market share 
from last year, marking the lowest share since 1981. Dr. McCoy, 
how could innovative housing types, like manufactured, modular, 
or 3D-printed homes, help address both the housing supply 
shortage and affordability challenges facing first-time 
homebuyers?
    Dr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. I think I said this 
before, but, really, I would advocate for a deep bench. We 
would have a lot of different tools that we can look at 
different segments of the market and be able to satisfy 
different parts of the market in different ways or different 
local market conditions that we need to satisfy, and I think 
that is part of what needs to happen to understand that we have 
a lot of options. If we can bring some innovation that needs to 
be brought back online, but also push innovation as much as 
possible, then, hopefully, we can have many different tools for 
many different options.
    One of the things that was mentioned before, a couple of 
times, that we have not really talked about is, if we can 
satisfy a certain segment of the market, we do not have what is 
called a crowding-out effect where we might have people who 
are, basically, paying below what they can afford, and so you 
can actually open up areas for people to have more housing as a 
result in markets where you do not find that people can afford.
    Mr. Garbarino. My colleague, just before, he was talking 
about how some municipalities and localities have put in 
prohibitions on these types of homes. What specific zoning 
reforms or incentives, Dr. McCoy, should localities consider to 
ensure these innovative housing solutions are fairly 
incorporated into local land use plans?
    Dr. McCoy. In many ways, I am here to talk about 
technology, but I can reiterate some of what we have talked 
about and what we have seen in Virginia. We have seen a lot of 
really good programs that work on speeding up the processes 
around permitting. We have seen plan books where people can 
pick from a book of plans, and that really speeds up the 
process from a code standpoint. We also have seen a lot of 
State-level grants that try to incentivize innovation through 
our housing finance agency.
    Mr. Garbarino. Any other witnesses want to take a stab at 
that? Any other ideas?
    Mr. Boor. I talked to in my testimony about strengthening 
HUD's policy statement on this. Congress has been clear about 
the preemption authority of HUD, and they need to strengthen 
their policy statements so they can work with local communities 
to overcome, really, the outdated view of factory-built 
housing. I think if we can push a little bit harder on the 
municipalities, we will get more acceptance, and there will be 
success stories.
    Mr. Garbarino. Actually, my next question was about 
updating HUD policies, so that was great. Mr. Boor, Cavco was 
the first builder to unveil a duplex model after HUD code was 
updated to allow for zero lot line and 2-to 4-unit manufactured 
homes. Can you speak to how this innovation expands the range 
of homes built to the Federal construction code and where you 
see duplexes fitting into the market, and what barriers, if 
any, your company is encountering as you bring this product to 
scale?
    Mr. Boor. Yes. I mean, it is a fantastic change, and HUD 
supported us by changing their code to allow it. The early 
adopters really are community operators that intend to rent 
long term because they can get commercial funding for the 
units. The hurdle seems to be to get consumer funding or owner 
funding, but I think the frontier that we want to get to is 
where these can be solutions for urban infill. It is a great 
solution there, and the big hurdle, again, is financing and 
developing programs where owners can get consumer financing for 
these units.
    Mr. Garbarino. Wonderful. Thank you. Since you already 
answered my last question, I yield back. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Flood. The gentleman yields back. I would like to 
thank all of our witnesses for your testimony today.
    Without objection, all members will have 5 legislative days 
to submit additional written questions for the witness to the 
chair. The questions will be forwarded to the witnesses for 
their responses. Witnesses, please respond no later than June 
20, 2025.

    [The information referred to can be found in the appendix.]

    Chairman Flood. This hearing is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                 APPENDIX

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