[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
AN INSIDE JOB: HOW NGO'S FACILITATED THE
BIDEN BORDER CRISIS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JULY 16, 2025
__________
Serial No. 119-23
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
61-406 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Vice Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi,
Chair Ranking Member
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Eric Swalwell, California
Michael Guest, Mississippi J. Luis Correa, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida Shri Thanedar, Michigan
August Pfluger, Texas Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Tony Gonzales, Texas Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Morgan Luttrell, Texas LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Dale W. Strong, Alabama Julie Johnson, Texas, Vice Ranking
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma Member
Elijah Crane, Arizona Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee Nellie Pou, New Jersey
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Gabe Evans, Colorado Al Green, Texas
Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania Vacancy
Brad Knott, North Carolina
Eric Heighberger, Staff Director
Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Statements
Honorable Michael Guest, a Representative in Congress From the
State of Mississippi:
Oral Statement................................................. 1
Prepared Statement............................................. 4
Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From
the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on
Homeland Security:
Oral Statement................................................. 5
Prepared Statement............................................. 13
Witnesses
Mr. Michael Howell, Director, Oversight Project, The Heritage
Foundation:
Oral Statement................................................. 15
Prepared Statement............................................. 19
Ms. Alicia Hopper, President and Founder, GUARD Against
Trafficking:
Oral Statement................................................. 22
Prepared Statement............................................. 23
Mr. Julio Rosas, Private Citizen:
Oral Statement................................................. 26
Prepared Statement............................................. 28
For the Record
Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From
the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on
Homeland Security:
Letter, July 16, 2025.......................................... 7
Statement of Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio.......................... 89
Honorable Timothy M. Kennedy, a Representative in Congress From
the State of New York:
Press Release, June 11, 2025................................... 40
Letter From Pope Francis, February 10, 2025.................... 76
Op Ed, Newsweek, July 11, 2025................................. 78
Honorable Daniel S. Goldman, a Representative in Congress From
the State of New York:
Post, Truth Social, July 16, 2025.............................. 53
Honorable Elijah Crane, a Representative in Congress From the
State of Arizona:
Article, Oversight Project..................................... 86
Honorable Sheri Biggs, a Representative in Congress From the
State of South Carolina:
Article, The Free Press........................................ 92
Honorable Troy A. Carter, a Representative in Congress From the
State of Louisiana:
Report, The Coalition for Sustainable Flood Insurance.......... 104
Letter, August 4, 2022......................................... 154
Honorable Gabe Evans, a Representative in Congress From the State
of Colorado:
Report excerpt................................................. 158
Report excerpt................................................. 159
Appendix I
Exhibits to Prepared Statement of Alicia Hopper.................. 171
Appendix II
Roll Call Votes.................................................. 301
AN INSIDE JOB: HOW NGO'S FACILITATED
THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS
----------
Wednesday, July 16, 2025
U.S. House of Representatives,
Committee on Homeland Security,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Michael Guest
[Member of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Guest, Green, McCaul, Higgins,
Gimenez, Pfluger, Garbarino, Gonzales, Luttrell, Strong,
Brecheen, Crane, Ogles, Biggs, Evans, Mackenzie, Knott,
Thompson, Swalwell, Correa, Thanedar, Magaziner, Goldman,
Ramirez, Kennedy, McIver, Johnson, Hernandez, and Pou.
Mr. Guest [presiding]. The Committee on Homeland Security
will come to order. Without objection, the Chair may declare
the committee in recess at any point.
Before we begin, I want to start off by expressing the
condolences of this committee to the people of the great State
of Texas, who have been devastated by recent tragic flooding. I
know this hits especially hard to the home of several of our
colleagues who call Texas home. Our thoughts and our prayers
are with the victims of this flooding and their families. We
are grateful for the courageous efforts of the Coast Guard,
CBP, and many other first responders and volunteers who have
placed themselves in harm's way to rescue those caught in the
flooding. These American heroes, like Coast Guard swimmer Scott
Ruskan, saved countless lives through their bravery and they
deserve our Nation's gratitude and honor. This committee will
continue to do everything we can to ensure the victims receive
the assistance they need and that the Federal agencies are
prepared to help in times of trouble.
The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the role that
taxpayer-supported nongovernmental agencies played in
facilitating the border crisis under the Biden-Harris
administration. I now recognize myself for a brief opening
statement.
For 4 years, the Biden-Harris administration created the
worst border crisis in American history. From Day 1, Biden-
Harris and the Department of Homeland Security Secretary
Alejandro Mayorkas implemented a policy of mass catch and
release, dismantling effective border policies, and gutted
interior enforcement. As a result, roughly 13 million
inadmissible aliens were either encountered at our border or
entered as gotaways.
The consequences of these acts have been devastating.
Thousands of Americans were lost to fentanyl poisoning. Gang
members wreaked havoc in local communities. Young women like
Laken Riley, Joycelyn Nungaray, and Rachel Morin were raped,
abused, and murdered at the hands of illegal aliens.
This committee led the way by impeaching Secretary Mayorkas
for his willful and systematic refusal to enforce longstanding
immigration law, laws passed and amended over the years by
bipartisan majorities in Congress. The American people also
emphatically rejected the open-border policies at the ballot
box last November.
What is not known by many and what will be highlighted
today at this hearing is that the Biden-Harris administration
could not have executed an open-door border policy on its own.
They needed help. That help came from nongovernmental agencies
funded by the Federal Government. These groups that received
billions in taxpayer funding would prove instrumental in
helping the Biden-Harris administration process and release a
historic number of illegal aliens into our country.
Under a DHS program called the Emergency Food and Shelter
Humanitarian Program, EFSHP, which later became the Shelter and
Service Program, FEMA provided grants to numerous NGO's, many
of whom were operating at the Southwest Border. These groups
spent billions of taxpayers' dollars given to them by the
Biden-Harris administration to provide all types of benefits to
illegal aliens, those individuals who were recently released
from DHS custody. Our taxpayer dollars were spent on purchasing
tens of thousands of nights in hotel rooms for illegal aliens
instead of using existing ICE detention facilities to house
those detained individuals. The Biden-Harris administration
sent taxpayer dollars to NGO's to put them in hotels at the
cost, again, of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the
course of those contracts, in many cases without any ICE
supervision.
Even worse, our taxpayer dollars were used to form the
final link in the cartels' human smuggling operation, paying to
help illegal aliens travel to their preferred destinations:
Chicago, New York, Miami, Los Angeles, or other destinations of
choice. Jason Owens, then the chief of the Border Patrol Del
Rio sector, told the committee in an official interview, ICE
would then turn over illegal aliens over to NGO's for them to
travel to wherever they were going to go while awaiting their
hearing. Recent studies have shown that illegal aliens who
passed through the doors of these NGO's at the border ended up
in effectively every Congressional district across the country.
Many of the NGO's served as a launching pad for mass
illegal immigration. The abuse was so widespread that even the
Biden-Harris administration, the NGO's themselves, couldn't
deny it was happening in June 2022, when DHS officials said
that the Department will continue to closely coordinate with
and support NGO's to facilitate the movement of any individual
encountered at the Southwest Border. John Martin with the
Opportunity Center for the Homelessness and NGO in El Paso,
said that his organization works with illegal aliens to,
``facilitate travel to destinations of their choice.'' These
actions appear to many on the committee to constitute a
violation of Section 274 of the Immigration and Nationalization
Act, which prohibits any individual from encouraging or
inducing someone to enter the country unlawfully or helping
transport them to the interior.
Corruption and waste were rampant in the spending by the
NGO's. Under the Biden-Harris administration, DHS's top
watchdog audited millions of dollars that had gone to local
grant recipients over a 6-month period in 2021. They found that
a lack of documentation kept them from determining how more
than half the money had been spent. In some cases, they
discovered that funds had been used to pay for benefits for
individuals who were legally inadmissible to receive them.
The Biden border crisis proved to be a profitable business
for some NGO's. According to the Free Press, 3 large NGO's
involved in handling unaccompanied alien children; the Global
Refuge, who received 85 percent of its revenue from
Governmental grants; Endeavors, who received 97 percent of
their revenue from Governmental grants; and Southwest Keys
program, who received an astonishing 99 percent of its revenue
from the Federal Government. These 3 groups saw their combined
revenue grow to an astonishing $2 billion-plus by 2022.
I would argue that these groups had a vested interest in
prolonging the crisis when NGO Southwest Key Properties used
the increase in Government funding to raise salaries of
officers and officials across the board, including according to
recent media reporting, an increase of over $675,000 increase
to their CEO. Many NGO's tried to mislead the public in how
these funds were being allocated. This was documented by a
recent Florida grand jury investigation that just said that--in
that investigation the grand jury said that they were actively
obstructed. They were obstructed from determining how these
Federal dollars were spent. The grand jury also noted that some
NGO's received the vast majority of their Federal funding from
grants or the vast majority of their funding from Federal
grants. Pretty interesting for groups that like to call
themselves nongovernmental organizations.
The American people are tired of being told that we should
fund the actions of lawbreakers. They are tired of groups
encouraging people to cross the border illegally and
organizations that facilitate the release of illegal aliens
into the interior. When would-be border crossers know that they
receive a host of benefits that await them immediately after
crossing the border, they are more likely to make the deadly
and dangerous journey. That is exactly what happened on the
Biden-Harris watch as millions of vulnerable people put
themselves in harm's way at the hands of cartels and smuggling
groups.
An untold number perished along the route. Tens of
thousands or more suffered physical and sexual abuse on the
way. Many are still trapped today, paying off their cartel debt
through forced labor or working in the sex trade.
We can and should look for ways to care for the vulnerable
and less fortunate. But using taxpayer dollars to undermine our
laws and the well-being of Americans and migrants alike is not
the way to do it. We cannot let taxpayer dollars be used to
facilitate law-breaking. We must shine a light on this
disgraceful step as we begin to hold these organizations
accountable. This cannot on our watch ever be allowed to happen
again.
[The statement of Mr. Guest follows:]
Statement of Hon. Michael Guest
This afternoon, our hearing will provide a critical opportunity to
investigate how the Biden-Harris administration systematically weakened
our national border security and at the same time, intentionally
facilitated the influx of millions of inadmissible aliens in the United
States through the unlawful use of mass parole.
As Members of the Legislative branch, it is our duty to determine
how and why the Biden-Harris administration abused this authority to
grant parole meant to be applied only on a case-by-case basis for
urgent humanitarian reads or significant public benefit to justify the
mass release of between 2 and 3 million inadmissible aliens into our
country.
However, the Biden-Harris mass parole programs, though stopped by
the Trump administration, continued to impose significant financial
costs on the American public and generate increased public safety
threats. During his time in office, former President Biden's open
policies incentivized illegal immigration, signaling to the world that
our borders were open. In response, people from around the world
flooded across our borders and overran our communities. This resulted
in historic never-before-seen apprehension numbers.
To combat the bad optics of the growing border crisis and to try to
cover up the true scale of illegal immigrants entering the United
States, the Biden-Harris administration created multiple mass parole
programs to hide the truth from the American people and to quickly
release individuals into the interior. These programs were deliberately
designed to conceal and downplay the true scope of our border crisis.
One of the ways the former administration misled the public was
through the conversion of a little-known program originally designed to
schedule cargo inspections into the one of the most abused programs in
our Nation's history. The CBP One app was used in a manner never
authorized by Congress to create a fast-track pathway for parole into
the interior of the country. The implementation of the CBP One mass
parole program resulted in nearly 1 million illegal aliens entering
this country.
This committee found that the individuals who applied for entry
into the United States using the CBP One app were only released into
the interior at least 95 percent of the time. Additionally, more than
half a million other inadmissible aliens were granted parole under the
Mass Parole Program for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans.
The Trump administration has wisely ended both of these programs by
Executive Order, but the fallout remains. Earlier this year, DHS Office
of Inspector General released a review of specific Biden-Harris
administration parole programs, confirming that the previous
administration had no plan to remove aliens whose parole had expired.
That meant that there are potentially hundreds of thousands of
inadmissible aliens who may still be at large in a country long after
their parole has expired. To make matters worse, many of these aliens
and those who sponsored their entry were not properly vetted.
Both the CHNV program and the CBP One appointments had to be paused
due to suspected rampant fraud. The consequences of these reckless and
unlawful parole programs have been devastating and the American public
has paid the price.
One horrifying example is the brutal murder of 22-year-old Laken
Riley, an Augusta University student, at the hands of an illegal alien
from Venezuela who was paroled into the country by the Biden-Harris
administration.
More recently, an Afghan national who was paroled into the United
States in 2021 was arrested for plotting an attack in the name of ISIS
on Election Day 2024. This arrest and Laken's tragic death should be a
wake-up call to lawmakers, that we must be serious about preventing
future abuse of our immigration law.
In closing, Congress has a responsibility to examine what steps
should be taken to mitigate the on-going financial and public safety
threats enabled by the previous administration's abuse of parole.
There's no scenario in which paroling millions of inadmissible
aliens in the country is consistent with current law. We must never
allow this to happen again. We must work together to ensure that future
administrations can never again jeopardize our Nation's safety and
sovereignty. We must implement legislative solutions that will
guarantee American security for generations to come. I look forward to
hearing from our witnesses today and with that I yield back.
Mr. Guest With that, I would like to recognize the Ranking
Member and my friend from my home State of Mississippi, Mr.
Thompson, for his opening statement.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome
also to this hearing and I look forward to the information we
get.
But before we begin, I want to express my heartfelt
condolences to the families of those who lost lives in the
tragic Texas flooding on Independence Day. Our thoughts and
prayers are with them. Also, I want to say that we had a
smaller flood. Nonetheless, we lost lives in New Mexico and we
want to acknowledge that, also.
Mr. Chairman, my Republican colleagues and the Trump
administration are waging a war on faith in civil society in
the United States. That is a real inside job. So let's talk
about it.
Faith-based service and civic associations bring Americans
together in pursuit of the greater good. That threatens Donald
Trump and MAGA Republicans because they believe their political
strength lies in driving wedges between people. In their
pursuit of political power, Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans
are ripping apart the fabric of what makes America great: our
freedom to believe, to practice our faith, and to associate in
civic organizations that help us in our pursuit of happiness.
Donald Trump started his second term by attacking religious
organizations and he has not rested since. On the first day in
office, Donald Trump paused foreign assistance for the needy,
harming the work of faith-based religious agencies. On his
second day in office, Donald Trump decided that deportation
forces could begin entering houses of worship to arrest
migrants. After a week in office, Donald Trump's OMB attempted
to freeze Federal grants, including the Nonprofit Security
Grant Program, which helped houses of worship protect
themselves from violence.
Republicans on this committee appear to want in on that
action. Just read the Republicans' press release about their
vindictive investigation of American charities and this sham
hearing. Republicans falsely accuse Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran,
Methodist, Evangelical Muslim, and secular charities that feed,
clothe, and aid the needy of having ``supercharged the business
model of cartels.'' That is a slanderous accusation and fringe
conspiracy theories with no basis in reality.
Republicans sent out 215 letters falsely accusing
organizations of wrongdoing, even though most of the
organizations don't receive Federal dollars or provide direct
services to migrants. This is a scare tactic, plain and simple.
Republicans' so-called investigation and today's hearing are
shameful abuses of Congressional power to bully people for how
they choose to exercise their religion and help their fellow
man. It is an attack on diverse faith-based organizations over
their religious practices and is a threat to charities that do
humanitarian work Republicans do not like.
It does not surprise me that the Chairman of this
committee, Mark Green, is absent for his last full committee
hearing before retiring to Guyana. I, too, would be embarrassed
if I had to sign off on this hearing.
What does surprise me is that my good friend, Michael
Guest, my colleague from Mississippi, a proud Sunday school
teacher, is chairing a hearing that attacks Christianity and
bullies private citizens over what they choose to do in lawful
service in their communities. But that is the damage done--
Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans have done to our country
and to the Republican Party.
Republicans don't want to investigate who's really running
things at DHS while Kristi Noem is filming all her commercials.
They don't want to investigate what Donald Trump is hiding by
restricting Congress' access to Classified files. They don't
want to investigate why the Trump administration deported sick
American kids. They don't want to investigate how thousands of
calls from flood survivors in Texas went unanswered by FEMA.
Instead, committee Republicans are attacking charities and
religious organizations for providing food, clothing, and
shelter to people in need.
Let me be clear, Republicans have voted for years across
multiple Presidential administrations to fund humanitarian
programs that provide food, shelter, basic medical care, and
transportation for migrants. That includes 10 Republican
Members of this committee, including every single Republican
currently running to be the next Chairman. Now, suddenly, they
have a problem with a program they supported and they need a
distraction. I might add the program they are criticizing
actually came about under the Trump administration. Somehow we
say this is a Biden program, but it was created when Donald
Trump was President.
Well, let me say it is shameful that Republicans on this
committee are scapegoating charities and churches and that help
the needy just because some of the needy happen to be migrants.
It is hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle are
attacking programs they authorized and funded. It is pitiful
that Republicans would violate Americans' First Amendment
rights to freedom of religion and association just to distract
from Kristi Noem's failed natural disaster response, Donald
Trump's illegal and cruel treatment of migrants, and this
administration's weaponization of DHS. If committee Republicans
truly wanted to oversee how DHS used the funding they supported
to help local governments and charities would provide essential
services to migrants, they would have invited FEMA here to
testify, since it administers the Emergency Food and Shelter
Program.
On that point, let me say we have been here since January
20. We have had one administration witness come before this
committee. One. That was the FEMA administrator. We haven't
seen anybody else in the third-largest Government agency.
Republicans would have invited Customs and Border Protection to
testify since CBP worked with FEMA to establish the shelter and
services program. Our Republicans would have invited Secretary
Noem to testify since the funding Republicans have questioned
about flowed through DHS. Somehow Republicans forgot to ask
Secretary Noem about the spending during her only appearance
before this committee this year.
But Republicans did none of that. Instead, they invited a
private panel of witnesses to perpetuate Republican attacks
against organizations that are feeding, sheltering, and helping
the least of our brothers and sisters. Many on the other side
purport to be Christians, but their actions today do not square
with anything I learned in church. This is a shameful
spectacle, Mr. Chairman, and frankly, it is un-American.
In closing, I want to say a word to the organizations being
targeted by the other side. I know many of you are watching
today and worried that your work is being disrupted by these
baseless attacks and that people are suffering as a result.
Please know that those of us on this side of the aisle support
your Constitutional right to live out your faith and act on the
courage of your convictions as citizens of this great country.
Nothing could be more American than that.
Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I ask unanimous consent
to enter into the record a letter from over 600 nonprofit and
nonpartisan organizations who stand in opposition to this
hearing and Republican attacks on the services and advocacy
they provide communities.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be admitted into the
record.
[The information follows:]
Letter Submitted on Behalf of 600+ Organizations by Ranking Member
Bennie G. Thompson
July 16, 2025.
We, the undersigned more than 600 nonprofit and nonpartisan
organizations, stand united in opposition to the House Homeland
Security Committee's and Senator Josh Hawley's unfounded demands for
information from hundreds of nonprofit organizations. These charities
and organizations have done nothing but carry out their work including
what is outlined in the Federal grants some of them were awarded, and
include religious organizations and groups working on advocacy and
services for immigrants, workers, youth, and a vast array of other
organizations serving their communities.
These letters of inquiry target civic organizations that have
provided services under valid Federal contracts that were authorized
and appropriated by Congress, filling a need the Government cannot
perform itself. No allegations of wrongdoing, or evidence, is provided
for these extraordinary and burdensome inquiries. This effort appears
to be an attempt to weaponize Congressional power and create the
appearance of wrongdoing against those who the signers believe disagree
with their political agenda. The process these lawmakers intend to drag
these law-abiding, community-serving organizations through is the
punishment.
As nonprofit and nonpartisan organizations, we work in communities
across the country to feed the hungry; house those without shelter;
protect our air and water, our rights to vote, worship, and organize;
we fight for consumers, workers, and our children; we advocate for
civil and human rights at home and abroad; we have made it safer to
drive on our roads, easier to start a business, and healthier to live
in our cities. We span the full ideological spectrum. And today, we
stand together for our democracy and in solidarity with those nonprofit
organizations unjustly targeted by these Congressional letters.
Let us be clear--this investigation is Congress weaponizing its
powers to target and intimidate nonprofit organizations that are
fulfilling the guidelines of Federal grants simply because they
disagree with the policy those grants advance. This unfounded inquiry
is not about protecting Americans, rooting out waste and fraud, or
defending the public interest. It is about using unchecked power to
chill Constitutionally-protected activity, community activism, and
voices those sending the letters may disagree with. That is un-American
and flies in the face of the Constitution.
This specific attack on nonprofits is not happening in a vacuum.
Rather, this attack exists in the context of a wholesale offensive
against organizations and individuals the administration and its allies
find objectionable. We are standing in solidarity with the
organizations targeted in this unfounded investigation because
nonprofits of all types, members of the clergy and religious groups,
advocates, and community-serving organizations should not be punished
for their work--even if those in power find it threatening to their
policy agenda. Our Government is meant to serve the people, not those
in office.
Efforts by Members of Congress to attack nonprofit groups they
disagree with are reprehensible, dangerous, and a violation of
fundamental American freedoms. Speaking out for the voiceless is, and
has always been, our collective mission. As such, we stand with those
organizations wrongly targeted, and with one another.
Sincerely,
100 percent Democracy: An Initiative for Universal Voting
2 Inspire Peace Inc.
350 Bay Area
350 Seattle
350Hawaii
360 Philanthropy Group LLC
A Place Called Home
AAPI NJ
Abortion Action Missouri
Acacia Center for Justice
Action for a Better Community
Action Together NEPA
Advocacy for Principled Action in Government
Afghan Legal Empowerment Portal
AFLCIO
African Human Rights Coalition
AFT
Air Alliance Houston
Akonadi Foundation
Alabama Campaign for Adolescent Sexual Health
All Voting is Local
AllBeforeUs, LLC
Alliance for a Just Society
Alliance for Justice
Alliance San Diego
Alliance to Reclaim Our Schools
Alternative Schools Network--Added Chance
American Association of University Women (AAUW)
American Atheists
American Humanist Association
American Jewish World Service
American Midwest Ballet
American Oversight
Americans Against Government Censorship
Americans for Financial Reform
Americans United for Separation of Church and State
Amigos de Guadalupe Center for Justice and Empowerment
AMPLIFY Girls
Arab American Institute
Ascend Justice
Asian Counseling and Referral Service
Asian Law Alliance
Athena Coalition
Austin Region Justice for Our Neighbors
Autism Alliance of Michigan
Autistic People of Color Fund
Autistic Women & Nonbinary Network
AVAN Immigrant Services
Avodah
Bainbridge Ometepe Sister Islands Organization
Ballot Initiative Strategy Center
Bank Climate Advocates
Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty
Battle Born Progress
Bayard Rustin Center for Social Justice
Bearnstow
Beta Cell Action
Better Brazoria Clean Air and Water
Better Lives Rhode Island
Bicycle Alliance of Minnesota
Black Nonbelievers
Black Women for Wellness Action Project
Bloodline Dance Theatre
Bright Lines Project
CA Budget & Policy Center
California Climate & Agriculture Network (CalCAN)
California Communities Against Toxics
California Donor Table
California Women's Law Center
California Work & Family Coalition
CalNonprofits
CalPride
CalWild
Campaign Legal Center
CASA, Inc.
Cedar Tree Foundation
Center for Common Ground
Center for Earth, Energy and Democracy
Center For Economic And Policy Research
Center for Economic Justice
Center for Effective Philanthropy
Center for Elder Law & Justice
Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law
Center for International Environmental Law
Center for Jewish Nonviolence
Center for Media and Democracy
Center for Progressive Reform
Center for Story & Witness
Center on Policy Initiatives
CenterLink: The Community of LGBTQ Centers
Central American Legal Assistance
Central Coast Alliance United for a Sustainable Economy (CAUSE)
Ceres Community Project
ChangeLab Solutions
Charlotte Trans Health
Chesapeake Legal Alliance
Chicago Appleseed Center for Fair Courts
Chicago Council of Lawyers
Chicago Jobs Council
Chicago Women in Trades
Children's Defense Fund
Choose Democracy
Citizen Action of New York
Citizen Action of Wisconsin
Citizens Awareness Network
Citizens for Public Schools
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW)
City of York Human Relations Commission
Civic Shout Foundation
Civil Liberties Defense Center
Clean Air Coalition of Western New York
Clean Air Council
Clean Elections Texas
Climate Action California
Climate Hawks Vote
Climate Justice Alliance
Climate Museum
Climate Psychology Alliance of North America
Co-Counsel NYC
Coalition for a Better Chinese American Community
Coalition on Human Needs
CODEPINK
Collective Power for Reproductive Justice
Colorado Common Cause
Colorado Foundation for Universal Health Care
Columbia Legal Services
Common Cause
Common Counsel Foundation
CommonWealth Kitchen
Communities In Schools Whatcom-Skagit
Community Change Action
Community Labor United
Community Legal Services in East Palo Alto
Community Resource Exchange
Compass Pro Bono
Compassion & Choices
Conant Family Foundation
Conceivable Future
Connecticut Voices for Children
Consumer Action
Cottonwood Institute
Courage California
Data & Society
David Rockefeller Fund
DAWN
Dear Asian Youth
Defend Public Health
Defending Rights & Dissent
Demcast
Democracy 21 Education Fund
Democracy Action Team at First Unitarian Society of Denver
Democracy Defenders Fund
Democracy Maine
Democracy Matters
Demos
Denver Food Rescue
Desert Advocacy Media Network
Detroit Disability Power
Dignidad
Direct Action Everywhere
Doctors for America
Domestic Violence Solutions for Santa Barbara County
Dutchess County Pride Center
Earth Ethics, Inc.
Earth Island Institute
Earthworks
East Bay Children's Law Offices
Economic Policy Institute
EFERT, Inc.
Elders Action Network
Elders Climate Action
Elephant Circle
Emerald Cities Collaborative
End Child Poverty California
End Citizens United
Endangered Species Coalition
Environmental Protection Network
Equality California
EquaSpace
Essential Information
Everybody Votes Campaign
EVkids, Inc.
Fab Youth Philly
Fair and Just Prosecution
Fair Fight Action
Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California
Faith in Action
Family Farm Defenders
Family Health Partnership Clinic
Family Values @ Work
Fight for the Future
Firedoll Foundation
First 5 California
Fishline
Flint Jewish Federation
Florida Immigration Law and Justice Center
Flow Water Advocates
Food & Water Watch
Food Empowerment Project
Food for Maine's Future
Food in Neighborhoods
Foodwise Community
Footloose Montana
Fossil Free California
Fox Valley Citizens for Peace & Justice (Illinois)
Free Press Action
Free Speech For People
Freedom From Religion Foundation
Freedom Network USA
Freedom of the Press Foundation
Freedom Oklahoma
Fresh Films
FreshWater Accountability Project
Friends Committee on Legislation of California
Friends of Grand Rapids Parks
Friends of Merrymeeting Bay
Friends of Rose Creek
Friends of the Boundary Waters Wilderness
Friends of the Earth
Friends of the Inyo
Friends of the Mississippi River
Frontera Federation
Full Plates Full Potential
Fun with Financials
Funders for Justice
Get Free
GLBTQ Legal Advocates and Defenders (GLAD Law)
Global Detroit
Global Faith and Justice Project
GLYS WNY and the Pride Center of WNY
Goodnation
Grand Rapids Trans Foundation
Grantmakers in the Arts
Grassroots Global Justice Alliance
Grassroots International
Grassroots Leadership
Greater Good Studio
Greater Pittsburgh Art Council
Greenpeace USA
Ground Game LA
Groundswell Charleston
Grow Food Northampton
Grupo de Apoyo e Integracion Hispanoamericano
Hammond Climate Solutions Foundation
HANA Center
Hands United
Harm Reduction Therapeutics, Inc.
Hawaii J20
Hawaii State Rural Health Association
Health & Medicine Policy Research Group
Health Care Without Harm
Healthcare Alternatives System INC.
Hello Future
HIAS Pennsylvania
Hill-Snowdon Foundation
Hilltown Vision
Hindus for Human Rights
Hispanics in Philanthropy
Hmong Innovating Politics
Hope Acts
Housing and Family Services of Greater New York
Houston Voting Initiative
Human Rights Watch
Human Services Council of New York
Hunger Solutions New York
Hyams Foundation
Illinois Collaboration on Youth
Illinois Network of Centers for Independent Living
Immigrant Legal Defense
Immigration Center for Women and Children
Impact Investors
In This Together NEPA
Indivisible
Institute for the Critical Study of Zionism
Institute of Cooperative Learning
Interfaith Alliance
Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility
International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers
(IFPTE)
International Mayan League
Intransitive
JACL Honolulu
Jane Doe Inc.
JCFS Chicago
John Brown Lives!
Jolt Action
Junta Comunitaria Pastillo Tibes Corp.
Just Solutions
Just Strategy
Justice At Last
Justice Funders
Justice in Aging
Kansas Interfaith Action
Kataly
Kettle Range Conservation Group
Keystone Development Center
KIAC
Kinder World
KinderUSA
Kitsap Immigrant Assistance Center
Krupp Family Foundation
Ktisis Capital
Kyo-Shin-An Arts Inc.
L Professional Writing, LLC
La Puerta Abierta
La Raza Centro Legal
La Raza Community Resource Center
LA Voice
Larksparre Consulting LLC
Latino Community Fund of WA
Latino Network
League of Conservation Voters
Leadership Education for Asian Pacifics (LEAP)
Libra Foundation
Literacy Works
Little Tokyo Service Center
Living Cities
Long Beach Alliance for Clean Energy
Long Island Progressive Coalition
Los Angeles Neighborhood Land Trust
Los Angeles Neighborhood Land Trust
Lumina Alliance
Maine Council of Churches
Maine Society of CPAs
Make the Road Nevada
Malcolm X Center for Self Determination
Manzanita Capital Collective
MARBE SA
Marguerite Casey Foundation
Mary Reynolds Babcock Foundation
McGregor Fund
Media Alliance
Mekong NYC
Merck Family Fund
Michigan Interfaith Power & Light
Milwaukee LGBT Community Center
Minnesota Center for Environmental Advocacy
Minnesota Council of Nonprofits
Minnesota Council on Foundations
Minorities in Shark Sciences
Mint Chip Studios LLC
Mississippi Rising Coalition
Missouri Jobs with Justice
Missouri Workers Center
Mobile Pathways
MoNetwork
Morningside Retirement and Health Services
Mosaic Changemakers
Mount Diablo Bird Alliance
Movement Strategy Center
MoveOn
MPower Change Action Fund
Muncie OUTreach LGBTQ+ Center
Museum Geelvinck
Muslim Advocates
Muslim Anti-Racism Collaborative (MuslimARC)
Muslim Legal Fund of America (MLFA)
Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC)
Muslims for Just Futures
My Place Teen Center
NAACP Las Vegas, Branch 1111
Najam Consulting
NAKASEC
National Abortion Federation
National Asian Pacific American Families Allied for Substance Awareness
and Harm Reduction
National Association for Family, School and Community Engagement
(NAFSCE)
National Association of the Remodeling Industry
National Coalition For Asian Pacific American Community Development
(CAPACD)
National Coalition Against Censorship
National Coalition Against Cryptomining
National Committee for Responsive Philanthropy (NCRP)
National Council of Jewish Women Pittsburgh
National Health Care for the Homeless Council
National Homelessness Law Center
National Institute for Reproductive Health
National Lawyers Guild-Massachusetts Chapter
National LGBTQ+ Bar Association and Foundation
National Women's Law Center Action Fund
National Working Positive Coalition
North Carolina Environmental Justice Network
New Day Nevada
New Disabled South
New Haven Legal Assistance Association, Inc.
New Jersey Consortium for Immigrant Children
New Jewish Narrative
New Mexico Environmental Law Center
New York City Employment and Training Coalition
New York Civic Engagement Table
New York Communities for Change
New York Folklore
New York Foundation
New York Progressive Action Network
NFP Consulting
NH Peace Action
NM Communidades en Accion Y de Fe (NM CAFe)
Nonprofit Professional Employees Union, IFPTE Local 70
Nonviolence International
NorCal Resist
Normandie Foundation
North Dakota Human Rights Coalition
Northern New Jersey Sanctuary Coalition
Northwest Environmental Advocates
Nourish California
NRDC
NYenvironcom
Oasis Legal Services
Occupy Bergen County (New Jersey)
Ocean Conservation Research
Ohio Equal Rights
Ohio Immigrant Alliance
Oklahoma Policy Institute
One Arizona
One Colorado
One Voice Recovery, Inc.
Open Markets Institute
Open MIC
OpenMedia
Opioid Policy Institute
Opportunity Fund
Oregon Natural Desert Association
Oregon Physicians for Social Responsibility
Our Revolution
Oxfam America
PA Harm Reduction Network
Palestine Legal
Palestinian American Community Center
Paper Crane Associates
Partners for Progressive Israel
Peace Action New York State
Pelecanus
PEN America
Pennsylvania Stands Up
People For the American Way
People Power United
Phoenix Legal Action Network
Physicians for Social Responsibility
Pine River Group Home, Inc.
Pipe Line Awareness Network for the Northeast
Planned Parenthood Action Fund
Plastic Pollution Coalition
Plug In America
PowerSwitch Action
Predator Defense
Prevention Institute
Project Access Northwest
Project Include
Project On Government Oversight
Project South
Project TAHA
Proyecto Faro
Public Advocacy for Kids (PAK)
Public Citizen
Public First Law Center
Public Justice Center
Public Knowledge
Puertas Abiertas INC
QWELL Community Foundation
Race Forward
Rainbow Bridge Community Center
Raksha, Inc
Rank the Vote
Ready for Change
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Refugee Council USA
Reimagine Wealth LLC
Release Aging People in Prison (RAPP Campaign)
Religions for Peace usa
Reproaction
Resonance Arts
Resource Center
Resource Renewal Institute
Restore The Fourth
Revolution Workshop
Rhode Island Environmental Education Association
Rights & Democracy Institute
Rights & Democracy Project
Rise Economy
River Otter Ecology Project
Robertson Foundation for Government
Rockefeller Brothers Fund
Rocky Mountain Conference, UCC
Roots Reborn
RootsAction
Rural AIDS Action Network
Safe Horizon
San Francisco Foundation
Save Ohio Parks
Save Our Streams
ScienceWorks Hands-On Museum
Secure Elections Network
Seneca Lake Guardian
Seven Counties Services
Seventh Generation Interfaith Coalition for Responsible Investment
Shelter Youth and Family Services
Sierra Health Foundation
Sierra Nevada Alliance
Silver State Equality
SMYAL
SoCal 350 Climate Action
Social Justice Legal Foundation
Social Justie Collaborative
Solidaire Network
Solidarity Engineering
South Asian Network
South Bay People Power
Southeast Asian Community Alliance
Southern Vision Alliance
Southside Food Co-op
SouthWings
Sowing Justice
St Michael's Food Pantry
St. Matthew Trinity Lunchtime Ministry
Stand Up America
Stanley Center for Peace and Security
Starting Over Inc
Step Forward
Stop AAPI Hate
Strong Arm Investments, LLC
Students Engaged in Advancing Texas (SEAT)
Sunrise Movement
Support Center for Nonprofit Management
Swan View Coalition
Syzygy
T'ruah
Tacoma Area Coalition of Individuals with Disabilities
Taproot Collective, Inc.
Tara Health Foundation
Tennessee Justice for Our Neighbors
Texas Gulf Coast Area Labor Federation
The Boone Family Foundation
The Climate Center
The Climate Museum
The ClimateMusic Project
The Episcopal Church
The Funders Network
The Harbour
The Health & Housing Consortium
The Human Trafficking Legal Center
The Humanization Project
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights
The Living City Project
The Mansfield Foundation
The Ocean Project
The Philanthropy Coach, LLC
The Pride Center at Equality Park
The Progressive Foundation
The Redress Movement
The Right to Immigration Institute
The Source LGBT+ Center
The Statewide Independent Living Council of Illinois
The Street Trust
The Workers Circle
Thurston Climate Action Team
Tides
Tikkun Olam Foundation, Inc.
TransCanWork
Transgender Law Center
TransitCenter, Inc.
Transparency International U.S.
Treatment Action Group (TAG)
Trucha
Trust-Based Philanthropy Project
Trustees for Alaska
Turkopticon
Turtle Island Restoration Network
U.S. Department of Arts & Culture
Unitarian Universalist FaithAction New Jersey
Unitarian Universalists for a Just Economic Community
Unitarian Universalists for Social Justice
United Church of Christ
United for a New Economy
United for Respect
United Neighborhood Houses
United Women of Color
UNRWA USA National Committee
Uptown People's Law Center
US PPLHIV Caucus
Ventura County Legal Aid
Vermont Community Thermal Networks
Vermont Public Interest Research Group
Veterans For Peace
Victim Rights Law Center
Virginia Women's Foundation
Vocal-KY (Voices of Community Activist and Leaders-Kentucky)
VOCAL-TX
Voices for Progress Ed Fund
Voting Access For All Coalition (VAAC)
WDIY 88.1 FM
We Lead By Example, Inc.
Welcoming America
West Virginia Highlands Conservancy
Western Center on Law & Poverty
Western Colorado Alliance
Western Environmental Law Center
Western Watersheds Project
Whose Corner Is It Anyway
Wildlife for All
Willow Fund
Wingbeat 88
Winter Film Festival
Winter Wildlands Alliance
Women Thinking Out Loud
Women's Alliance for Theology, Ethics, and Ritual (WATER)
Women's Center of Greater Lansing
Women's Fund of Rhode Island
Women's March
Woodstock Institute
Worksafe
X-Lab
Yes In My Back Yard
Yleana Leadership Foundation
Youth Pride, Inc.
Youth United for Community Action
Zakat Foundation of America
Zero Hour
Zero Waste Ithaca
Mr. Thompson. I yield back.
[The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
July 16, 2025
My Republican colleagues and the Trump administration are waging a
war on faith and civil society in the United States. That is the real
``inside job.'' So, let's talk about it.
Faith-based service and civic associations bring Americans together
in pursuit of the greater good, and that threatens Donald Trump and
MAGA Republicans because they believe their political strength lies in
driving wedges between people.
In their pursuit of political power, Donald Trump and MAGA
Republicans are ripping apart the fabric of what makes America great--
our freedom to believe, to practice our faith, and to associate in
civic organizations that help us in our pursuit of happiness.
Donald Trump started his second term by attacking religious
organizations, and he has not rested since. On his first day in office,
Donald Trump paused foreign assistance for the needy, harming the work
of faith-based relief agencies. On his second day in office, Donald
Trump decided that deportation forces could begin entering houses of
worship to arrest migrants. After a week in office, Donald Trump's OMB
attempted to freeze Federal grants, including the Nonprofit Security
Grant Program, which helps houses of worship protect themselves from
violence.
Republicans on this committee appear to want in on that action.
Just read the Republicans' press releases about their vindictive
investigation of American charities and this sham hearing. Republicans
falsely accuse Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran, Methodist, Evangelical,
Muslim, and secular charities that feed, clothe, and aid the needy of
having, ``supercharged the business model of cartels.'' That is a
slanderous accusation and fringe conspiracy theory with no basis in
reality.
Republicans sent out 215 letters falsely accusing organizations of
wrongdoing, even though most of the organizations don't receive Federal
dollars or provide direct services to migrants.
This is a scare tactic, plain and simple. Republicans' so-called
investigation and today's hearing are shameful abuses of Congressional
power to bully people for how they choose to exercise their religion
and help their fellow man. It is an attack on diverse faith-based
organizations over their religious practices. And it is a threat to
charities that do humanitarian work Republicans do not like.
It does not surprise me that the Chairman of this committee, Mark
Green, is absent for his last full committee hearing before retiring to
Guyana. I, too, would be embarrassed if I had signed off on this
hearing.
What does surprise me is that Michael Guest, a proud Sunday school
teacher, is chairing a hearing that attacks Christianity and bullies
private citizens over what they choose to do in lawful service to their
communities. But that is the damage Donald Trump and MAGA have done to
our country and to the Republican Party.
Republicans don't want to investigate who is really running things
at DHS while Kristi Noem is filming all her commercials. They don't
want to investigate what Donald Trump is hiding by restricting
Congress's access to Classified files. They don't want to investigate
why the Trump administration deported sick American kids. And they
don't want to investigate how thousands of calls from flood survivors
in Texas went unanswered by FEMA.
Instead, Committee Republicans are attacking charities and
religious organizations for providing food, clothing, and shelter to
people in need.
Let me be clear, Republicans have voted--for years and across
multiple Presidential administrations--to fund humanitarian programs
that provide food, shelter, basic medical care, and transportation for
migrants. That includes TEN Republican Members of this committee,
including every single Republican currently running to take over as
Chairman.
Now, suddenly, they have a problem with the programs they
supported, and they need a distraction. Well, let me just say, it is
shameful that Republicans on this committee are scapegoating charities
and churches that help the needy just because some of the needy happen
to be migrants. It is hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle
are attacking programs they authorized and funded.
It is pitiful that Republicans would violate Americans' First
Amendment rights to freedom of religion and association just to
distract from Kristi Noem's failed natural disaster response, Donald
Trump's illegal and cruel treatment of migrants, and this
administration's weaponization of DHS.
If committee Republicans truly wanted to oversee how DHS used the
funding they supported to help local governments and charities provide
essential services to migrants, they would have invited FEMA to
testify, since it administers the Emergency Food and Shelter Program.
Republicans would have invited Customs and Border Protection to
testify, since CBP worked with FEMA to establish the Shelter and
Services Program. Or Republicans would have invited Secretary Noem to
testify, since the funding Republicans have questions about flowed
through DHS. Somehow Republicans ``forgot'' to ask Secretary Noem about
the spending during her only appearance before us this year.
But Republicans did none of that. Instead, they invited a private
panel of witnesses to perpetuate Republican attacks against
organizations that are feeding, sheltering, and helping ``the least of
our brothers and sisters.'' Many on the other side purport to be
Christians, but their actions here today do not square with anything I
learned in church. This is a shameful spectacle. And frankly, it's un-
American.
In closing, I want to say a word to the organizations being
targeted by the other side. I know many of you are watching today and
are worried that your work is being disrupted by these baseless attacks
and that people are suffering as a result.
Please know that those of us on this side of the aisle support your
Constitutional right to live out your faith and act on the courage of
your convictions as citizens of this great country. Nothing could be
more American than that.
Mr. Guest. Other Members of the committee are reminded that
opening statements may be submitted for the record.
Today, we are pleased to have a highly distinguished panel
of witnesses before us. I would ask that our witnesses please
rise and please raise your right hand. I will administer the
oath.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Guest. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the
witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Our witnesses,
thank you and please be seated. I would now like to take a
moment to formally introduce our witnesses.
First, I'd like to introduce Mike Howell. Mike is the
president of the Oversight Project, which has done significant
work through litigation and investigation to uncover
information about the Biden border crisis. He served as
oversight counsel at the Department of Homeland Security under
the first Trump administration and has senior experience in
different oversight positions on Capitol Hill. A graduate of
Duke University and Emory Law School, Howell is also a board
member of the National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
Second, I would like to introduce Ali Hopper. She is a
nationally-recognized expert in human trafficking and the
president and founder of GUARD Against Trafficking, an
organization that conducts research and advocacy to counter
exploitation and human trafficking. She authored Florida's
landmark anti-grooming bill, now used as a model language in
States across the country. She has testified before Congress on
child trafficking and has delivered numerous Congressional
briefings on human trafficking. She conducts on-the-ground
research in the United States, Mexico, Central and South
America, and has trained INTERPOL in South America, has trained
law enforcement officers here at home, and policy makers across
multiple States and countries.
Last is Julio Rosas. He is an expert and a renowned
national correspondent for Blaze Media. As a journalist, he has
reported on the ground from the Southwest Border during the
Biden border crisis and has uncovered many riots and protests--
and has covered many riots and protests across the country,
notably those sparked by antifa and the Black Lives Matter
riots of 2020. Julio has previously served in the United States
Marine Corps as a Reserve.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here.
I would now like to recognize Mr. Howell for 5 minutes to
summarize his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL HOWELL, DIRECTOR, OVERSIGHT PROJECT,
THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION
Mr. Howell. Chairman Guest, Members of the committee, thank
you for having me here today to testify. My name is Mike Howell
and I'm the president of the Oversight Project. I'm also a
visiting fellow for the Heritage Foundation and a board member
at the National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
I especially thank you for giving me a platform to plead
with Members of this body on the Democrats' side to stand down
on their threats against the men and women of Immigration and
Customs Enforcement. The violence is getting out of control and
it is fueled by the demagoguery of politicians. Whether it is
one of your Members telling Axios that there needs to be blood
to grab the attention of the press and the public, another
saying civility isn't working and to prepare for violence, or
even a Member of this committee being arrested for forcibly
impeding and interfering with Federal officials, this
escalation deserves condemnation. It needs to stop and it needs
to stop now. Assaults against ICE officers are up over 830
percent and that's a lowball estimate.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Howell. There have been violent incidents in Alvarado,
McAllen, Portland----
Mr. Guest. Would the gentleman suspend briefly?
Yes, Mr. Ranking Member.
Mr. Thompson. So I got a point of order. Pursuant to clause
2(k)(8) of rule XI, I raise a point of order that this
testimony is outside the scope of the hearing.
Mr. Higgins. I would object to that position, Mr. Chairman.
That's absurd.
Mr. Crane. I would object as well.
Mr. Higgins. The man has a right to his 5 minutes of
testimony. Clearly, the Democrats don't want to hear truth. I
object to the Ranking Member's ridiculous position.
Mr. Guest. The point of order offered by the Ranking Member
is not in order. This individual has the opportunity to
summarize his opening statement and the information upon which
he used to form that opening statement. So the objection is
overruled.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, if I may. Obviously, I am going
to appeal the ruling of the Chair and ask for a vote. But
again, you know, this guy has an opinion.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Thompson. Wait. Do you--no, I respect it.
Mr. Guest. The Chair has ruled that his testimony is part
of the basis upon which he is briefing this committee. It will
be used to talk about his ultimate findings as it relates to
the purpose of this committee. I understand your objection. The
objection has been overruled. If you would like to challenge
that, you are welcome to challenge that. Is the Ranking Member
challenging the ruling of the Chair?
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I challenge the ruling of the
Chair.
Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
Mr. Higgins. I have a motion.
Mr. Guest. What is that motion, Mr. Higgins?
Mr. Higgins. Motion to table.
Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. The gentleman has
moved that the motion to table. This is privileged and
nondebatable. So we will then--is there a second to the motion
to table?
Mr. Crane. I second it.
Mr. Guest. Motion and several seconds of the motion to
table.
All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by
saying aye.
Any opposed?
In the ruling of the Chair, the ayes have it and the motion
is tabled.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.
Mr. Higgins. As do I.
Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested. We would ask
the Clerk to please call the roll.
The Clerk will call the roll and then once the roll is
called, we will wait on the additional Members to arrive so
that they can cast their vote. But the Clerk can begin to call
the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Guest. I'm sorry, apologies. Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Nay.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes nay.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green.
[No response.]
Mr. Guest. Are there other Members that wish to have their
vote recorded?
Mr. Clerk, how am I recording?
The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
Mr. Guest. I would like to be recorded as an aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. The Clerk will report the tally.
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 9 ayes and
8 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion to table is agreed to.
Any other issues that need to be taken up before Mr. Howell
resumes his testimony?
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Yes, sir, Mr. Ranking Member.
Mr. Thompson. I would like to ask unanimous consent that
Ms. Ansari from Arizona be permitted to sit with the committee
and question today's witnesses.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, she will be allowed to sit
and question witnesses, but not allowed to vote on any matters.
Any other issues that need to be taken up?
Mr. Howell, you are recognized once again to continue your
summation of your opening statement.
Mr. Howell. Thank you. Reclaiming my time. The violence,
obstruction, and subversion of the United States that is
emanating from so-called nongovernmental organizations, unwell
individuals, some probably paid, and supported by the political
mainstreaming of violent rhetoric from national politicians,
should not come as a surprise. We saw the writing on the wall
during the Biden border crisis with the sick marriage between
the Government and so-called nongovernmental organizations
facilitating illegal immigration. The reason I call these
groups so-called nongovernmental organizations is because they,
for the most part, draw funds from the Government or have a
preferential tax status from the Government. They are more
creatures of the Government than they are nongovernmental.
Now, the United States of America is still reeling from the
consequences of the worst border invasion in history. This was
an invasion that was planned, promoted, encouraged, funded, and
sustained by radical elements of the previous administration.
This invasion could not have been accomplished without a
colossal partnership between the Government and open borders
organizations. Simply put, under the Biden administration's
open border policies, the Government could only do so much to
facilitate mass illegal immigration, welcome illegal aliens
into the United States, and move them around the country. The
Biden administration needed help. So they drove an estimated $6
billion to a conglomerate of 15 U.N. agencies and over 200
nonprofits as recently calculated by the Center for Immigration
Studies to do the open borders work for them.
Now, my organization, the Oversight Project, has led the
way on exposing this border industrial complex. In December of
2022, we published the first-of-its-kind study tracking the
cell phone movement of illegal aliens through these
organizations at the border. With only a small sample size of
30,000 devices, we found that these devices went to 431
Congressional districts. That's nearly everywhere in the
country.
In New York, we discovered a taxpayer-funded shelter
providing false residency documents to illegals. In Mexico, we
discovered flyers at an illegal alien staging camp encouraging
illegals to remember to vote for Biden when they got in the
United States. In Arizona, we found a Mexican consulate
official at an NGO advising illegals on how to lie to law
enforcement and evade ICE. We have produced documentary
evidence of noncitizens admitting on camera to being registered
to vote in Arizona, Georgia, Minnesota, and North Carolina.
This year we obtained video evidence of an open borders
organization in New York City hosting a seminar on how to evade
ICE.
This is the new trend. Open borders organizations are now
in the obstruction of ICE business. Without the partnership and
the money of the Biden administration, a blob of nonprofits,
legal groups, and foot soldiers are taking to the streets to
create chaos. This makes sense because the goal has always been
destabilization. This destabilization is happening right here
around us. Incendiary and defamatory protest rhetoric linked to
the group 50501 and FLARE, which is formerly the May Day
Movement, which did No Kings, which many members of this body
promoted and Party for Socialism and Liberation movements are
some of the groups that are radicalizing individuals and
inciting violence. This only ends in violence.
Now, the Oversight Project has asked this administration,
the President Trump's administration, to stop issuing permits
for peaceful protest to nonpeaceful groups. People should be
able to go to work in the District of Columbia without being
spat on, assaulted, or having an air horn blown into their
eardrums. This happens all the time. I know first-hand.
In conclusion, I'd encourage you all to think broadly about
the blob of various organizations and strategies that were
involved in sustaining the Biden border crisis and also
understand what is still happening today. I thank you for the
opportunity to testify and I'm happy to answer any questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Howell follows:]
Prepared Statement of Michael Howell
july 16, 2025
Chairman Guest and Members of the House Committee on Homeland
Security, thank you for inviting me to testify. My name is Mike Howell
and I am the president of the Oversight Project as well as a visiting
fellow for the Heritage Foundation and an advisory board member for the
National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
I especially thank you for giving me a platform to plead with
Members of this body, all on the Democrat side, to stand down on their
threats against the personnel of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
The violence is getting out of control, and it is a direct result of
the demagoguery from Congress. Whether it is one of your Members
telling Axios that ``there needs to be blood to grab the attention of
the press and the public,'' another saying ``civility isn't working''
and to prepare for ``violence'', or even a Member of this very
committee being arrested for forcibly impeding and interfering with
Federal officers, this escalation deserves condemnation from all
regardless of politics. It needs to stop and stop now.
Now to the matter at hand today, the role of the so-called non-
governmental organizations in facilitating illegal immigration and the
subversion of the United States' sovereignty, with a particular focus
on their role in the Biden Border Crisis. The reason I call these
groups so-called non-governmental organizations is because they, for
the most part, draw Government funds or have a preferential tax status
from the Government. They are more creatures of the Government than
non-governmental organizations. For the remainder of my testimony, I
will call them what they are: open borders organizations that are part
of the Border Industrial Complex.
The United States of America is still reeling from the consequences
of the worst border invasion in its history. This was an invasion that
was planned, promoted, encouraged, funded, and sustained by radical
elements of the previous administration. This invasion could not have
been accomplished without a colossal ``partnership'' between the
Government and open borders organizations. It is the dramatic excesses
of the previous 4 years, built on decades of lackadaisical enforcement
at the border in the interior, that created the situation we are in now
where there is an urgent need for mass deportation as the common-sense
correction to the problem. This was plain as day for all those who
cared to see it as most Americans united behind policies to promote the
biggest enforcement activities in American history.
Simply put, under the Biden administration's open-border policies,
the Government could only do so much to facilitate mass illegal
migration, welcome the illegal aliens to the United States, and move
them around the country. It needed help and open borders organizations
jumped at the opportunity to fill the void. The Biden administration
repaid them by driving an estimated $6 billion to a conglomerate of 15
U.N. agencies and 230 NGO's, as recently calculated by the Center for
Immigration Studies, to do this work for them.\1\ In doing so, the
Biden administration turned the Border Patrol into nothing more than a
welcome center, a day care, and glorified Uber drivers that ferried
illegal aliens to open borders organizations. In turn, the open borders
organizations facilitated mass migration of illegal aliens throughout
the interior of the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ https://nypost.com/2025/02/01/opinion/how-us-taxpayers-funded-
the-largest-illegal-migration-in-history/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Oversight Project has led the way on exposing this border
industrial complex. In December 2022, we published a first-of-its-kind
study tracking the movement of illegal aliens by their cell phones
through these organizations at the border.\2\ Our investigation was
simple. We purchased the ad tech cell phone data of approximately
30,000 devices found at open borders organization facilities and
tracked the movement of those devices throughout the United States
during the month of January 2022. The results were staggering. We found
that these devices traveled to 431 different Congressional districts in
the United States. Our research proved that indeed ``every town is a
border town.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://www.heritage.org/the-oversight-project/securing-
americas-borders/tracking-movement-illegal-aliens-ngos-the-us.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our work provided much-needed ammunition for the House of
Representatives to write and pass H.R. 2 (118th Cong.), which notably
contained a provision prohibiting DHS from providing funds to NGO's
that facilitate or encourage illegal immigration or provide certain
services such as lodging or legal services.\3\ This was a landmark
shift for politicians in Washington, DC, with the dirty little secret
being that many had a cozy relationship with these organizations.
Moving forward, prohibiting the funding of the invasion itself through
these groups should be a common-sense staple. To that end, DHS's
freezing of such money only makes sense and Congress should follow-on
to legislate that no taxpayer dollar ever again goes toward any
organization that advertises, promotes, facilitates, or provides
assistance, including but not limited to transportation, lodging or
shelter, legal services, or financial support to illegal aliens. And
those are just the terms that I can think of today. To put it simply,
our entire government and the money that flows from it should be
opposed to illegal immigration and never spend a single penny to help
illegal immigration.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ https://www.Congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I pause for a moment to discuss the entire point of H.R. 2, which
was to close the loopholes that the Biden administration weaponized to
open the border and to prevent future administrations adverse to border
security from doing the same. There has been much misinformation on
this very point, with some of your colleagues in the Senate and the
previous administration who united around a policy to maintain record
numbers of illegal border crossings as a new normal. As President Trump
said in his State of the Union, those people ``kept saying we needed
new legislation to secure the border--but it turned out that all we
really needed was a new President.'' How right he is.
In addition, the Oversight Project has uncovered instance after
instance of seedy behaviors at open borders organizations promoting
illegal immigration. In New York, we discovered a taxpayer-funded
shelter providing false residency documents to illegals. In Mexico, we
discovered flyers at an illegal alien staging camp encouraging illegals
to remember to vote for Biden when they got to the United States. In
Arizona, we found a former Mexican consulate official at an NGO
advising illegals to lie to law enforcement to evade ICE--a probable
violation of 8 U.S.C. 1324. Additionally, we have produced
documentary evidence of noncitizens admitting, on camera, to being
registered to vote in Georgia, North Carolina, Illinois, and New
York.\4\ Recently, we obtained video evidence of an open borders
organization in New York City hosting a seminar on how to evade ICE.
This is the new trend: open borders organizations are now in the
obstruction-of-ICE business.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ https://x.com/OversightPR/status/1836145827091210719.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where are the deep dives and accounting audits into the over $6
billion spent by our Government but outside the Government to promote a
border crisis? A scandal of such epic proportions deserves
accountability of epic proportions. The Biden Border Crisis was a
flagrant Constitutional abuse, perhaps the greatest in American history
for its scale and just complete contradiction of the very duties of our
own Government to secure our own borders and protect Americans, not to
make them worse. This body funded the groups that facilitated of Jose
Ibarra's illegal entry into this country and multiple trips to New York
and Georgia, where he killed Laken Riley. They are the poster children
for this fiscal negligence.
I encourage all of you to commit to a deep investigation into the
actions of these organizations over the last few years, not to mention
the troubling trend of these groups working against the national
interest to assist illegals in evading ICE. I am glad to hear that some
steps have been taken in that direction. They should continue. This
body funded these groups and retains the responsibility to the taxpayer
to figure out who spent that money, how, and what information they
retain about the illegals they moved and where.
But the one thing I want to leave you with, and perhaps most
importantly, is that it took immense organizational sophistication and
creative genius by open borders advocates to design a system where they
could significantly augment the ability of the Government to get
illegal aliens into the country. You can now do the same to get them
out.
Now is the time to look at all available streams of funding to
drive capacity toward those outside the Federal Government who can help
get this done. Whether it is educating illegals that their free ride is
over and deportation is in the offing, helping arrange travel home, or
empowering States, the same can be done in reverse. The funding from
the reconciliation package makes this possible. It is time for a
complete modernization of the immigration enforcement system and border
security. We do not need to secure our country for just 2025, but for
the future. This means a renaissance in applying technological and
scientific advancements. Currently, the stove-piped systems of various
Federal agencies holding different sets of critical information for
enforcement are outdated. We need to lean into the available
technological and scientific advancements to make sure our immigration
enforcement capabilities are the world's envy.
We should also be preparing for the cartels to fight back. These
transnational criminals made a lot of money in cooperation with the
Biden administration. They aren't just going to give up territory and
profit modes of human and drug trafficking. I encourage you all to
think deeply about not just investing in traditional modes of border
security and personnel, but about what it means to secure the border
against drones, kinetic attacks, and evolving means of asymmetrical
warfare. The events of October 7 in Israel should be instructive in
this regard.
I thank Chairman Guest and Members of the committee for the
opportunity to testify, and I am happy to answer any questions.
Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Howell.
At this time, I would like to recognize Ms. Hopper for her
5 minutes to summarize her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF ALICIA HOPPER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, GUARD
AGAINST TRAFFICKING
Ms. Hopper. Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, and
distinguished committee Members, thank you for the opportunity
to testify. My name is Ali Hopper, president and cofounder of
GUARD Against Trafficking, a nonprofit dedicated to combating
human trafficking.
As a Hispanic mother, I have held a 6-year-old Colombian
child in my arms, cold, dirty, and shaking, left to die at the
border by the cartel. I have seen children that have crossed
the border alone, holding scraps of paper with sponsor
information given to them by the cartels. When I testified in
November, we discussed the exploitation of children at our
border. Today, countless children continue to be neglected,
abused, or trafficked by a system meant to protect them. We
must ask, how was this allowed to happen? And what role did
NGO's play?
My research partner, Dr. Jarrod Sadulski, and I have
conducted extensive field work, including interviewing
incarcerated traffickers, cartel members, whistleblowers, and
unaccompanied alien children themselves. An ORR field
specialist had visited a home to place a 17-year-old and
reported serious concerns, most notably that the adult claiming
to be the child's mother was adorned in MS-13 tattoos. Despite
these concerns, ORR leadership overruled that specialist.
Tragically, 3 months later, that child was found dead, his
pants around his ankles, with an older man passed out next to
him. This heartbreaking case is not isolated. It highlights a
system overwhelmed by both scale and mismanagement.
Since 2008, over $20 billion has been dispersed under the
UAC program, almost 14 billion of that in the last 6 years
alone. Meaning over two-thirds of funding was spent in just
one-third of the program's lifespan. Yet despite this massive
investment, hundreds of thousands of children remain
unaccounted for as the U.S. taxpayer dollars fueled a system
hijacked by criminal networks. No-bid billion-dollar contracts
were awarded with little oversight, while influx facilities
became transportation hubs.
A striking example is Endeavors. Their IRS filings show
revenues soaring from 65 million in 2019 to 1.18 billion in
2022, driven almost entirely by Federal contracts. During this
time, CEO Jon Allman's salary rose from 292,000 to 730,000 with
six-figure executive surge bonuses added. Endeavors ended 2022
with $112 million surplus.
Andrew Lorenzen-Strait, a former Biden transition official
and ICE advisor, helped secure no-bid Federal contracts for
Endeavors and was caught on camera calling the border crisis a
boom for business. Inside, Endeavors' leadership blocked
critical safety protocols, resisted oversight, and silenced
internal dissent. Our interviews with contracted auditors at
Endeavors' Pico, Texas, facility revealed disturbing findings.
Male staff had been found inside female dorm rooms. An employee
had led 150 teenage girls in sexually explicit routines, dance
routines, teaching them how to twerk on multiple occasions. A
female over 18 had been shielded from ICE. Others nearing 18
were released early to avoid transfer to ICE. And auditors were
blocked from reviewing child sponsor placements.
These abuses are not unique to Endeavors. Similar patterns
existed across multiple NGO's. Federal contracts had
prioritized speed over safety and rewarded output over
outcomes, conditions which cartels exploited. A cartel
operative in Tecate, Mexico, explained to us how children were
routinely kidnapped and funneled into the United States for
profit. Cartels infiltrated NGO's along those smuggling routes,
turning humanitarian pathways into trafficking pipelines.
Weak sponsor vetting worsened this problem. An HHS audit
later found that 70 percent of sponsor applications were
fraudulent, making proper post-placement welfare checks nearly
impossible. Recently, we discovered about 117 unaccompanied
children believed to be trafficked on a farm in the Midwest
where our intervention sparked a current investigation. These
cases are emerging nationwide. Last week, ICE and CBP arrested
about 361 illegal aliens at two cannabis farms in California,
finding 10 unaccompanied children.
So where do we go from here? This is not about politics.
It's about protecting children and confronting modern-day
slavery. Good intentions and humanitarian missions must never
excuse harm when policies enable exploitation. Accountability
and decisive action must ensure it never happens again.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hopper follows:]
Prepared Statement of Alicia Hopper
Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, and distinguished Members
of the committees, thank you for the opportunity to testify and for
addressing this urgent matter.
My name is Ali Hopper, and I am the president & co-founder of GUARD
Against Trafficking, a 501(c)3 dedicated to combatting human
trafficking through innovative research, dynamic education, and
empowered action. As a Hispanic mother, I have held in my arms a 6-
year-old Colombian child that was left to die at the border by the
cartel. The child was dirty, cold, and terrified.
I've walked the very paths these children traveled along the
border--trails littered with discarded IDs, torn clothing, and haunting
signs of the sexual exploitation they've endured. We've seen
unaccompanied children first-hand crossing our border clutching scraps
of paper with a name, a phone number, and an address--given to them by
the cartels, already coached on who to request as their sponsor.
And in the 5 minutes I speak to you, countless unaccompanied alien
children are still suffering--abused, trafficked, and forgotten by a
system that was supposed to protect them.
When I testified before you in November, we spoke about how men,
women, and children were being sold, exploited, and brutalized within
our own borders--and how unaccompanied children became some of the most
vulnerable victims.
Today, we must ask the harder question: How did we allow this to
happen? And what role did NGO's play in making it possible?
research findings
My research partner Dr. Jarrod Sadulski, and I have conducted
extensive field research including direct interviews with unaccompanied
alien children (UACs), human traffickers, cartel members, and
whistleblowers. Our findings revealed were significant systemic
failures and corruption at the highest levels:
Unprecedented Trafficking Due to Lax Sponsor Vetting.--In
interviews with cartel members incarcerated for human
trafficking, they explained how weak sponsor verification
incentivized trafficking by enabling cartels to control
children's placement by supplying children with exact sponsor
information, allowing control over their destination.
Alarming Conditions at the Border.--A cartel operative in
Tecate, Mexico, described the routine kidnapping of children
for trafficking into the United States, made easier by open
borders, inadequate border security, and flawed NGO screening
practices. Cartels infiltrated NGOS along smuggling routes to
the Southwest Border, using them to facilitate in the smuggling
or trafficking of children. By providing children with false
documents and pairing them with adults to pose as family units,
they placed the children in grave danger.
Falsified Records.--According to an internal audit conducted
by Health and Human Services (HHS), approximately 70 percent of
sponsor applications examined were found to be fraudulent,
making child traceability and safety assurances nearly
impossible.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-immigration-advisor-targets-
criminals-exploiting-unaccompanied-minors-who-entered-us-under-biden.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neglect of the Hotline System.--The HHS hotline, established
to address concerns about UAC placements, received nearly
65,000 calls from August 2023 to January 2025, that went
largely unanswered, allowing trafficking to continue
unchecked.\2\ For example, one call was received of a child
reporting ``a lot of grown men were coming into his bedroom and
touching him''. This call was ignored by the previous
administration and only acted upon after this current
administration took over, leading to a welfare check, the child
being rescued and the sponsor being arrested.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/
grassley_to_hhs_backlog_of_unac-
companied_migrant_children_reports.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
failure of ngo's to adequately protect children
Today we are here to examine how that happened. To confront how
children were failed grossly mismanaged by NGO's funded by U.S.
taxpayer dollars.
Because here's the hard truth: the United States Government became
the middleman in a humanitarian pipeline exploited by cartels and
obscured by Federal contracts. They awarded no-bid, billion-dollar
contracts to NGO's without oversight; and allowed influx facilities,
funded by taxpayers, to operate as transportation hubs.
One notable example of this mismanagement is Endeavors. While we
will focus on specific instances there, a broader review of all NGO's
involved in this process suggests similarly troubling findings are
likely widespread--such as those uncovered within Southwest Key
programs.
endeavors: a case study in mismanagement
We examined Endeavors' IRS Form 990's from 2019 through 2022
[Exhibit 1], looking for indicators of financial irregularities,
executive enrichment, program mismanagement, and misuse of Federal
funds related to the UAC program. Prior to 2021, Endeavors was a mid-
level social service nonprofit (revenues $50-60 million) with a mix of
grants (VA, HUD, etc.) and program service income. In 2020, Endeavors
reported $52 million in revenue. By 2021, that number had soared to
$658 million. In 2022, it eclipsed $1.18 billion, comparable to the
very largest NGO's like Save the Children USA ($1.0 billion) or
International Rescue Committee ($900 million). However, Endeavors'
funding is nearly 100 percent Federal, whereas Save the Children and
IRC have diversified funding (private donations, U.N. grants, etc.).
Save the Children, for example, gets 55 percent of its funding from
the U.S. Government and the rest from private donors. What was the key
driver of this soaring scalability? Government contracts like the $385
million no-bid contract from the Office of Refugee Resettlement.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2035069/hhs-awarded-
group-with-biden-ties-530m-no-bid-contract-to-house-migrant-children/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
During that same period, Endeavors executives padded their pockets.
CEO Jon Allman's compensation doubled to $615,000 in 2021, then rose to
$730,000 in 2022. The CFO and COO weren't far behind. The executive
team received six-figure ``surge bonuses'' directly tied to revenue
growth--bonuses funded by the very grants meant to protect children
were treated like venture capital--not public service. Endeavors ended
2021 with a $33 million surplus and $112 million in 2022.
And behind those numbers stood some of the individuals who helped
make it all possible. Andrew Lorenzen-Strait, a former Biden transition
official and ICE advisor, helped facilitate no-bid Federal contracts to
Endeavors and was caught on camera referring to the border crisis as a
``boom for business''.\4\ The Endeavors' director of training and
compliance, along with the acting senior director for migrant services
& federal affairs, reinforced this environment by blocking safety
protocols, resisting oversight, and silencing internal dissent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1785362/biden-
transition-official-caught-on-camera-saying-border-crisis-is-boom-for-
business/#google_vignette.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based our research interviews with contracted compliance officers
with first-hand accounts at the Endeavors' Pecos, Texas facility, and
their written statements [Exhibit 2]:
``Staff were hired without completed fingerprinting or
thorough background checks.''
``Male staff were found inside female dorms.''
``A contractor led 150 teenage girls, minors in sexually
explicit dance routines, teaching them how to `twerk'. He did
it twice--once at the facility's ribbon-cutting, and again
months later--before an on-site compliance officer demanded
intervention.''
``Children collapsed after being subjected to massive
vaccination protocols with no parental consent and no clear
medical follow-up.''
``Two compliance officers discovered a female housed alone
in a dorm who was over 18 years of age. Endeavors was shielding
her from ICE. In other cases, UACs on the verge of turning 18
were released early to avoid ICE transfer.''
``An Endeavors employee that raised concerns about too many
children being sent a single address was terminated.''
``A former ICE employee with a background in case
management, serving as a contracted compliance team lead was
actively stonewalled from reviewing child placements.''
consequences of systemic neglect
To reiterate, it wasn't just Endeavors. Across the country, NGO's
became way stations--processing points in a steady flow of children.
Federal contracts incentivized output over outcomes, prioritizing speed
over safety.
And the cartels took full advantage. They studied every gap and
exploited them, sending children into a system they knew would fast-
track them to cartel-controlled sponsors--without meaningful background
checks, with addresses verified through postal databases, and IDs often
accepted via WhatsApp or text with no facial match to the sender. This
is how 70 percent of sponsor data became falsified or fraudulent.
Post-placement welfare checks were typically limited to two phone
calls made to the sponsor's home; if no one answered, the case was no
longer followed up on. This broken process contributed to the
staggering over 300,000 children who went unaccounted for.
NGO's were also tasked with transporting children to the unvetted
sponsors, yet we personally witnessed unaccompanied children from the
border flying alone with no escort. Flight attendants encountered
situations where children were sent to the wrong locations, couldn't
communicate due to language barriers and in some cases required CPS or
police intervention when sponsors failed to appear at the airport gate.
Most children were placed without home studies to assess their safety--
though a small number of exceptions existed.
Through research, we uncovered the case of an Office of Refugee
Resettlement (ORR) field specialist who visited a home where a 17-year-
old child was set to be placed. The field specialist noted that the
person claiming to be the child's mother was adorned in MS-13 tattoos.
Despite the specialist's report of serious concerns, ORR leadership
overruled them. Three months following placement, that child was found
dead--his pants around his ankles, with an older man passed out next to
him.
In another case in Cleveland, a 30-year-old sponsor falsely claimed
to be a ``brother'' of a 14-year-old UAC. After placement, the child
was raped by other men in the household.
Just last week, ICE and CBP arrested approximately 200 total
illegal aliens at two cannabis farms in California, where 10
unaccompanied children were found--part of an ongoing investigation
into child labor violations and suspected trafficking. Similar cases
are happening nationwide.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/11/ice-and-cbp-law-
enforcement-dodge-literal-bullets-rioters-while-rescuing-least-10.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Through our research, we discovered approximately 117 UAC children
that are believed to be trafficked on a farm in the Midwest. Through
our intervention, there is a now a current criminal investigation into
that matter. We cannot allow global industries to profit from
trafficking, abuse, and modern-day slavery.
So, where do we go from here?
First, we must acknowledge the hard truth: these failures were not
isolated or unforeseeable. They were the result of negligence, lack of
oversight, and a culture of unaccountability.
policy recommendations
This moment is not about partisanship. It's about protecting
children and standing united against the evils of modern-day slavery.
Humanitarian missions--no matter how good the intention is of that
mission, must never excuse negligence. When policies lead to the
exploitation or harm of children, there must be accountability.
Therefore, I respectfully urge Congress to:
1. Initiate a full forensic audit of all ORR contracts exceeding
$100 million, suspending funding until audits are completed.
2. Implement full claw-back provisions to return every unspent
dollar to the Treasury.
3. Mandate transparent public disclosures, independent Federal
oversight, and standardized tracking for UAC placements.
4. Require comprehensive home studies both before and after
placements of unaccompanied minors.
We have the responsibility and the opportunity to do what is right.
We must move forward with courage, moral clarity, and unity to restore
integrity to this system--and to protect the innocent lives depending
on us.
Thank you for your time, and for the opportunity to share my
research. I welcome your questions.
exhibits \6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ [Exhibits to this prepared statement may be found in Appendix
II.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Endeavors' IRS Form 990s from 2019 through 2022.
2. Written Statements from Gabriela Pacheco and Derrick Charleston.
Mr. Guest. Thank you, Ms. Hopper.
I now recognize Mr. Rosas for 5 minutes to summarize his
opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JULIO ROSAS, PRIVATE CITIZEN
Mr. Rosas. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the
opportunity to speak today about this important topic.
I've been covering the U.S.-Mexico border as a reporter
since 2019. I saw first-hand how secure the Southern Border was
during President Trump's first term. I went on to be at the
Southern Border for the next 4 years to document the deliberate
and horrific open-border policies implemented by the Biden-
Harris administration.
The numbers don't lie, the videos don't lie. What our
country experienced was a deliberate invasion at the behest of
the previous administration. Their efforts could not have been
possible without the nongovernmental organizations who provided
the Federal Government the ability to flood our country with
people who brazenly cross our borders illegally.
The NGO's located along the border were often the first
place processed migrants went to after being released by Border
Patrol. These organizations helped the Biden-Harris
administration avoid the bad optics of released migrants having
to be on the street due to the large volume of overcrowding in
certain sectors. Even with those efforts, the mass overcrowding
still resulted in people sleeping on the streets, sometimes
during the winter.
Ultimately, the goal of these NGO's was to get people to
their desired destination within the United States and get them
settled in, even though their legal status was far from being
secured. I would often see volunteers or staffers at the
airport when I left the border guiding these process migrants
to ensure they made their flights. A few times I saw them
ushering unaccompanied minors. This is haunting to think back
on now, knowing that Biden's HHS lost track of tens of
thousands of minors once they reached their supposed final
destination.
By having this guaranteed help once they reach U.S. soil,
illegal aliens had greater incentive to put their lives in
danger by traversing through the Darien Gap in cartel-
controlled territory in Mexico. One shelter in El Paso told me
in 2023, around 80 percent of the women who had come to them
had been raped, sometimes in front of their children. This
highlights that despite the NGO's having the stated goal of
helping these people, their help ends up harming the people who
would go to use their services. Yes, they made it to the United
States, but at what cost?
Congress needs to ensure taxpayer dollars cannot be used to
go toward enabling an invasion of our country ever again. It is
a misuse of taxpayer dollars and, most importantly, it's a
betrayal to the American people. Our tax money should be going
toward Americans first and foremost. Instead, millions of
dollars went to organizations such as Catholic Charities and
International Rescue Committee.
The reason why it's important to not let this happen again
is because the 4-year-long border crisis facilitated by these
NGO's is the reason why there are riots in sanctuary cities
today. President Trump campaigned and won on carrying out mass
deportations. And the American people want to undo the damage
inflicted by the Biden-Harris administration. NGO's have even
made an appearance at the recent unrest happening in Los
Angeles County. A recent example of this is Federal agents
arresting 4 people for interfering with an operation by
allegedly placing homemade spikes on the road with the
intention to damage their tires. On their person was a bag
branded with the logo of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant
Rights, Los Angeles. Congress needs to look into whether NGO's
are supporting people directly or indirectly who are currently
interfering with Federal operations.
I can tell you that while Americans are happy the border
crisis is finally over, they want to see accountability. I
believe Congress can make that accountability happen should you
decide to act.
Since I have a few a little bit of time left, I want to say
I'm here testifying today as a proud Latino. But most
importantly, I'm here as an American citizen. This is my
country, this is my home, this is where I grew up in. That is
why the rhetoric coming from one side of the aisle about these
operations saying, no, no, no, we got to keep our cheap labor
so that we can maintain our standard of living proves that they
want to view Latinos simply as a underclass to siphon votes
from and fearmonger from every time that there's an election.
They're content with keeping us as that servant underclass.
That is why it is disgusting to see them criticize that
recent raid in Ventura County where they found unaccompanied
minors working alongside convicted sex offenders at a cannabis
farm. No, we got to keep them there because or else how else
are we going to get high if we can't have unaccompanied minors
harvest our weed? It's quite frankly despicable.
The last thing I want to say is that the last time I
appeared before this committee, we had one Member say that
antifa is just an ideology, it's not a movement, by using an
outdated quote from the FBI director. Well, coming back from
Los Angeles, Seattle, and Portland, just this past month, with
the recent riots, I can tell you that antifa is very real and
the fact that they are also connected to that recent attempted
ambush at that ICE facility in Texas.
So I just wanted to reflect for the record that I was right
then, right now, that antifa is very real and very dangerous.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rosas follows:]
Prepared Statement of Julio Rosas
Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak
today about this important topic. I have been covering the U.S.-Mexico
border since 2019. I saw first-hand how secure the Southern Border was
during President Trump's first term. I went on to be at the Southern
Border for the next 4 years to document the deliberate and horrific
open border policies implemented by the Biden-Harris administration.
The numbers don't lie. The videos don't lie. What our country
experienced was a deliberate invasion at the behest of the previous
administration. Their efforts could not be possible without the non-
governmental organizations who provided the Federal Government the
ability to flood our country with people who brazenly crossed our
borders illegally.
The NGO's located along the border were often the first place
processed migrants went to after being released by Border Patrol. These
organizations helped the Biden-Harris administration avoid the bad
optics of released migrants having to be on the street due to the large
volume of overcrowding in certain sectors. Even with those efforts, the
mass overcrowding still resulted in people sleeping on the streets,
sometimes during the winter.
Ultimately, the goal of these NGO's was to get people to their
desired destination within the United States and get them settled in,
even though their legal status was far from being secured. I would
often see volunteers or staffers at the airport when I left the border
guiding these processed migrants to ensure they made their flight. A
few times I saw them ushering unaccompanied minors. This is haunting to
think back on now knowing Biden's HHS lost track of thousands of minors
once they reached their supposed final destination.
By having this guaranteed help once they reached U.S. soil, illegal
aliens had greater incentive to put their lives in danger by traversing
through the Darien Gap and cartel-controlled territory in Mexico. One
shelter in El Paso told me in 2023 around 80 percent of the women who
came to them had been raped, sometimes in front of their children. This
highlights that despite the NGO's having the stated goal of helping
these people, their ``help'' ends up harming the people who used their
services. Yes, they made it to the United States, but at what cost?
Congress needs to ensure taxpayer dollars cannot be used to go
toward enabling an invasion of our country ever again. It is a misuse
of taxpayer dollars and a betrayal to the American people. Our tax
money should be going toward Americans, first and foremost.
Instead, millions of dollars went to organizations such as Catholic
Charities and the International Rescue Committee.
The reason why it is important to not let this happen again is
because the 4-year-long border crisis, facilitated by these NGO's, is
the reason why there are riots in sanctuary cities today. President
Trump won on mass deportations and the American people want to undo the
damage inflicted by the Biden-Harris administration.
NGO's have made an appearance at the recent unrest happening in Los
Angeles County. A recent example of this is Federal agents arresting 4
people for interfering with an operation by allegedly placing homemade
spikes on the road with the intention to damage tires. On their person
was a bag branded with the logo of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant
Rights Los Angeles. Congress needs to look into whether NGO's are
supporting people, directly or indirectly, who are interfering with
Federal operations.
I can tell you that while Americans are happy the acute border
crisis is over, they want to see accountability. I believe Congress can
make that accountability happen should you decide to act.
Thank you again for this opportunity and I look forward to your
questions.
Mr. Guest. Thank you. I want to thank all of our witnesses,
again, for being here and for their opening statements.
Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their
5 minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning
may be called after all Members have been recognized.
I would like to recognize the gentleman from the great
State of Louisiana, Clay Higgins, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
panelists for being here today.
Let me ask you all a yes or no question and we are going to
build this thing out. Do you believe if an employee or an agent
of an NGO that is implicated in child trafficking in a criminal
investigation, if they cross the threshold of reasonable
suspicion and they are investigated, and that investigation
leads to the jurisdictional authority, the investigative
authority, developing probable cause, so they cross the
threshold of probable cause and they are arrested and then they
are prosecuted, and if they are convicted, they cross the
threshold of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and they are
convicted. I am talking about an employee of an NGO that
participated willingly during the last 4 years with the
trafficking of human beings, including children that were
destined to be trafficked into the sex trade.
Mr. Howell, do you think that employee of that NGO should
be convicted and incarcerated based upon the judicial system
and the criminal justice system I just described? Yes or no?
Mr. Howell. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Ms. Hopper.
Ms. Hopper. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Rosas.
Mr. Rosas. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Well, I concur. Much to the chagrin of a whole
abhorrent industry of child trafficking that prospered from the
open border policies of the Biden administration for 4 years,
2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024, much to the chagrin of these people
that made bank, man, we are coming after them. This Executive
branch is building criminal files. So I hope they are watching
and I hope they are frightened. I hope they are getting their
affairs in order, hiring their liberal attorneys to defend
them, starting to shuffle their money around. We will find it.
Mr. Howell, are you aware that ongoing right now, right now
in our country, of DHS, ICE, FBI, local, and State law
enforcement agencies working on Classified operations to
locate, find, and rescue trafficked tender age, mostly girls.
Talking about girls 14 and younger across the country that were
trafficked into our country in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. Are
you aware that those operations are on-going?
Mr. Howell. Yes, sir. They're trying to find the children
the Biden administration lost.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Howell.
Ms. Hopper, you aware?
Ms. Hopper. I am.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Rosas.
Mr. Rosas. Correct. I'm aware.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you. Would you be surprised, and
according to my research, which will very soon be revealed next
week, they have rescued so far 35,000 tender-aged kids? How do
you like that?
Now, according to Ms. Hopper's research, which I find
fascinating, everybody up here should, 70 percent of the
documentation turned in by so-called sponsors, which were lined
up by who? The NGO's. Through who? Primarily HHS. There is a
pipeline, man. We fed a pipeline of tender-aged children into
sex trafficking and slave labor into our country. We are
finding these kids. We are tracking this fraudulent document.
You are right, Ms. Hopper. My research showed a little bit
less, 65 percent, you said, 70 percent. I will go with 70. So
be advised, be advised, we are building out case files,
criminal case files. We are interviewing these 35,000 kids and
we are finding out exactly what the hell happened, how they
ended up in the nightmare where they were, and we are rescuing
more, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. We are
going to identify these children. We are locating these
children. We are rescuing these children. We are building out
criminal files based upon the testimony of these young
teenagers and the documentation of fraudulent vetting. Many of
these NGO employees are going to find themselves wearing
orange. It will be their new favorite color.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the indulgence. I yield.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields.
The Chair now recognizes Ranking Member Thompson for his 5
minutes of questioning.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, you and I both are from Mississippi, and we
know all too well the sense of devastation and hopelessness
experienced by disaster survivors. Many of the nonprofits the
Majority is attacking today under your leadership are the very
people who rush to support our constituents in their darkest
days. It is a disappointing way to begin your tenure as
Chairman if your conference does, in fact, select you for that
post.
Mr. Chairman, you have read the same reporting I have. You
have heard the same whispers of concern about the
administration's action decimating staff across the Department.
And you have seen the horrific results of the Department's
gross incompetence in just 6 short months. As the July 4th
weekend began, the deadliest floods in Texas history were
wreaking havoc in communities across the State. Over 130 people
died, including nearly 30 campers and counselors at an all-
girls Christian summer camp.
Now, we know that because of Secretary Noem's policies,
FEMA's urban search-and-rescue teams were not deployed until at
least 72 hours after the flooding began and FEMA's Recovery
Center contracts were allowed to collapse. Disaster survivors
called FEMA for help, but it answered only 35 percent of their
calls. As Texans suffered, Secretary Noem was posting glamour
shots for her South Dakota official portrait on Instagram.
Apparently Federal disaster response can wait, but Instagram
posts cannot.
President Reagan once said the 9 most terrifying words in
the English language were, ``I'm from the Government and I'm
here to help.'' Secretary Noem's DHS has proven that it is far
scarier when you call the Government for help and no one
answers.
The Secretary has also allowed ICE to execute racist
immigration raids, haphazardly rounding up Americans and
migrants alike based on skin color, ethnicity, and the language
someone speaks. She has defied court orders to halt deportation
and timely returns wrongly deported individual. Worst of all,
the Secretary has overseen the deportation of American citizen
children, including a 4-year-old with cancer, which I suppose
is something you might expect from someone who is proud of
shooting her puppy in the face.
The Secretary has empowered unqualified MAGA lackeys to
manage critical anti-terrorism operation charged with
protecting our communities from hate-filled violence. As we
face increasingly sophisticated cyber threats, the Secretary
has harassed nearly 1,000 cyber experts at CISA into quitting
their jobs and eliminating its election security work because
the President is still upset that he lost the 2020 election.
Though she might have been reluctant to respond to the
multiple oversight requests made by committee Democrats, she
has managed to find time to go on television to gaslight the
public. Secretary Noem has a lot of answers for Republicans who
have impeached Cabinet secretaries for less for noting in fact.
For those reasons, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of
rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena Department of
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Lynn Noem.
Mr. Guest. Does the gentleman yield back?
Mr. Thompson. I yield.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back. Is there a motion?
Mr. Gimenez. Move to table the motion.
Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. The committee will
suspend at this time.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Thompson. Parliamentary inquiry. Are we waiting on
something?
Mr. Guest. Waiting on Members to return to the committee
room.
Mr. Goldman. So will you entertain that request from the
Minority when we don't have enough members to defeat a vote?
Mr. Guest. It is going--the committee hearing at this point
is in suspension per the rules. I have the ability to call us
into suspension and that's where we are at this point.
Mr. Goldman. No, I understand. I am just wondering if you
are going to do it similarly and equally for the Minority or
you are just going to make it for the Majority.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I know this is your maiden
voyage, but there is a motion on the floor and you can't recess
a motion because the Members are not here.
Mr. Guest. The committee is not in recess, Ranking Member
Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Well, that is what you said.
Mr. Guest. I am sorry. The committee has been suspended.
Mr. Thompson. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Yes, sir, Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. You know, there is a motion before the
committee and I ask that my motion be acted on. You can't
suspend it or do anything like that. That is not the rules.
Mr. Chairman, the rules of this committee don't allow for
it just to stop. I am just asking that we go forward with the
motion.
Mr. Guest. The Chair has already explained where we are at
this point, Mr. Thompson. Until additional Members return to
the chamber, we will not be moving forward.
Mr. Thompson. You know, I am just saying that if we are
following the rules of the committee, what you are doing is not
in the rule.
Mr. Guest. Your point has been made and is in the record
that you do not feel that I am following the rules. That has
been made clear, Mr. Thompson. So you can continue to make that
and continue to put that in the record if you would like.
Mr. Goldman. Can you cite to us what rule allows for you to
suspend until Members return? Parliamentary inquiry.
Mrs. McIver. The people, this is how we break rules all day
here. Law and order, folks.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I asked a parliamentary inquiry.
Mr. Guest. Yes, Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. Can you please cite the rule of the committee
that allows you to suspend the hearing to wait for Members to
come for a vote? I assume you want to follow the rules of the
committee as the Chairman.
Mr. Guest. As I understand, Mr. Goldman, it is at the
Chair's discretion. I have used that discretion and I have
suspended. I understand that you and Mr. Thompson and other
Members may not be happy with that, but that is the decision I
made.
Mr. Goldman. No, I just want you to follow the rules.
Simple question. I assume you want to follow the rules as the
Acting Chairman. So, presumably, there is a rule that you can
cite to that allows you to do this. There is no general
discretion of the Chair to do whatever the Chair wants to do.
That is not a rule in the House of Representatives.
Mr. Guest. All right. At this time, the motion before the
Chair is a motion to table. That motion to table is privileged.
That motion is nondebatable.
All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
by saying aye.
Any opposed, please signify by saying no.
The Chair rules that the ayes have it and that the motion
prevails.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. I am assuming that there is a request for a
recorded vote. Is that correct, Mr. Thompson?
Mr. Thompson. There is a request for a recorded vote.
Mr. Guest. All right. There has been a request for a
recorded vote. We will let our Clerk get situated. Mr. Clerk,
would you please call the roll?
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Nay.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
Mr. Magaziner. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
Ms. Pou. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green.
[No response.]
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
The Clerk. The Chairman is not recorded.
Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Are there other Members who wish to have their
vote recorded or to change their vote?
Seeing none, would the Clerk please report the tally of the
vote?
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 12 ayes
and 11 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion passes.
Mr. Kennedy. Point of order. Can we please have the list of
aye votes read to us, the Members that voted aye?
The Clerk. The Members that voted aye are as follows: Mr.
Higgins, Mr. Gimenez, Mr. Pfluger, Mr. Garbarino, Mr. Luttrell,
Mr. Strong, Mr. Brecheen, Mr. Crane, Mr. Ogles, Mrs. Biggs, and
Mr. Evans and Chairman Guest.
Mr. Kennedy. Were all present to cast their votes?
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, were all present and cast their
votes, to your knowledge?
The Clerk. Yes, all were present in the room when they
voted.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
Mr. Guest. The Ranking Member has yielded back.
At this time, I would recognize myself for my 5 minutes of
questioning.
I want to respond to some of the allegations contained in
the Ranking Member's opening statement. Mr. Thompson, I am
assuming that you didn't write that statement because you have
known me for some period of time. I know you to be someone
who--that I have a long-standing relationship with and do not
believe that you would write an opening statement attacking
mine or the Christianity of any other Member of this committee.
I don't believe that you would weaponize my religious
beliefs. I don't believe that you would criticize me because I
choose to teach Sunday school in my church and to somehow say
that because I am a Sunday School, because I am a Christian,
that me being a part of this hearing somehow in some way flies
in the face of my religious beliefs. Because what we are doing
here today is we are not casting a broad net on every
nongovernmental organization, every nonprofit. We are instead
focusing this hearing on those who have profited off of the
illegal immigration that we saw under the Biden-Harris
administration.
I have mentioned nothing in my statement about nonprofits
such as Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Samaritan's Purse,
Doctors Without Borders, nonprofits who actually take money and
use it for the good, who are out there collecting money from
their congregation, from members of the community who wish to
give back. Instead, this hearing is focused on those handful of
nonprofits who received their money almost exclusively from
grants from the Federal Government, but yet still claim to be
nonprofits.
Ms. Hopper, you mentioned two of those in your written
testimony, two that I referenced in my opening statement. Those
two being Endeavors, who, according to my information that I
received, Endeavors received 97 percent of their funding from
Federal or local grants. They weren't out raising money. They
weren't out there ringing the bell there at Christmas asking
people to give money. They weren't in churches asking members
of the congregation to please give to these organizations. They
were instead an arm of the Federal Government in that they
received 97 percent of their funding.
Then Southwest Key properties was an NGO that blew past
that: 99 percent of their funding came from grants from the
Federal Government. What did these organizations do with that?
You talk about in your testimony, Ms. Hopper, you talk
about Endeavors, that in 2020, Endeavors reported $52 million
in revenue. Then in 2021, they reported $658 million in
revenue, a $600 million increase in a year, with 97 percent of
that money coming from the Federal Government. Then in 2022,
they reported a record $1.18 billion from the Federal
Government, or at least 97 percent of that.
You talk about how executives for Endeavor padded their
pockets, that with this increase in revenue comes increase in
salary, that the compensation for the CEO doubled. You talk
about these particular CEOs that I mentioned instead of using
that money to protect children, they were treating this money
like venture capitalists. You also stated in there that an
Endeavors individual, someone within their organization, said
that the border crisis was a boom for business.
In an article from the New York Post, they talk about
another one of these nonprofits. They talk about Southwest Key.
The headline says, ``Texas nonprofit housing migrant kids took
3 billion in grants from Biden administration and boosted
executive salaries up to 139 percent to pull the plug.''
So I am offended when people from the other side say that
we are not being Christian, that we don't want to help people.
We are not saying that all nonprofits are bad. Many of us
support and give money and volunteer to those. But this hearing
today is focused on those nonprofits which were government-
funded, which were used by the Biden-Harris administration to
continue to move people across the border against the will of
the public and without the authorization of Congress.
So with that, I yield back.
I now recognize my friend from California, Mr. Correa, for
5 minutes for his questioning of the witnesses.
Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do hope to continue
to work with you as a friend here in this committee.
I would also, though, want to point out that some of our
witnesses have to be careful with the testimony. Mr. Rosas has
pointed out Catholic Charities as being one of those
organizations that received funding. I am a Catholic, kind-of
disappointed in that.
Mr. Rosas. Why?
Mr. Correa. Because of what the Chairman said. This
Catholic Charities does good work. You pointed out somebody who
got money who did something that was unethical or illegal.
Thank you.
But Mr. Chairman, big job here of this committee is
oversight. OK. Homeland Security's budget is doubled. The
mission, as was pointed out some of the witnesses here today,
was to go after undocumented criminals. Yet back home every day
we are a peaceful, loving community. Masked ICE agents, no
badge, no identification, grabbing people off the streets on
the suspicion that they may be undocumented. Today, 70 percent
of those apprehended undocumented are not criminals. They are
hardworking taxpayers.
Recently, a pastor in Florida that had been here for 20
years with a stay of removal was arrested. All of you have
known, told you the story, I will tell you again. Father, 25
years, not a traffic ticket to his name, father of 3 Marines
was apprehended. DHS recently raided a church in California,
sanctuary. I thought we were supposed to go after criminals.
What authority does DHS have to go after churches? Are these
the right people? Not quite sure. Are we creating a national
Federal police here with unlimited powers?
You know, let's not talk about undocumented here. Let's
talk about U.S. citizens. OK? Countless U.S. citizens being
detained in this country. In my district, an attorney, woman,
female, walking down Centennial Park, apprehended by ICE, did
not touch, did not do anything offensive to the ICE agent, was
arrested, put in a van with no windows, cuffed, taken to a
detention center for hours. What are we coming to? Many stories
like that. U.S. citizens being detained by ICE, not for a few
hours, but for a few days. So a U.S. citizen speaking with an
accent. U.S. citizens. Do I have to carry around a passport
now? Do I have to tell children that are American citizens to
have their ID and passports with them? Is that what we're
coming to?
Mr. Chairman, I want to work with you. Let's work on
oversight, OK? A lot of these ICE agents, their performance are
probably going to rely on that defense called qualified
immunity when they do things like violate our Constitutional
rights. What is our defense for not doing a job of oversight?
Facial recognition technology now. Everybody now, citizens
or not, U.S. citizens, facial recognition technology without
your permission, without a warrant.
We should, Mr. Chairman, today have Todd Lyons, acting
director of ICE, come before this committee and explain what is
going on. Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI,
I move that the committee subpoena Mr. Todd Lyons, the acting
director of ICE, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I move to table.
Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. Mr. Correa, do you
yield back at this point?
Mr. Correa. Yes.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The gentleman from Florida has moved to table. The motion
is privileged and is nondebatable.
All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
by stating aye.
Any opposed, signify by stating no.
In the opinion of the Chair the ayes have it.
Is there a request, Mr. Ranking Member?
Mr. Correa. Recorded vote, sir.
Mr. Guest. A request for Mr. Correa for a recorded vote. We
will allow the Clerk a moment to--a recorded vote in this
matter has been called.
Mr. Clerk, if you would please call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Nay.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
Ms. Pou. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
[No response.]
Mr. Guest. Are there other Members who wish to have their
vote recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Evans is not recorded.
Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
The Clerk. The Chair is not recorded.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chair, is Mr. Magaziner recorded?
Mr. Guest. Is Mr. Magaziner recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner was not recorded.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Magaziner, how would you like to be
recorded? Mr. Magaziner is recorded as a no.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
The Clerk. The Chair has not been recorded.
Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. The Clerk will report the total.
The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 12 ayes
and 11 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion is not successful. Excuse me, the
motion is successful and is agreed to.
At this point, I would recognize my friend from the State
of Florida, Mr. Gimenez, for his 5 minutes of questioning.
Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hopper, how many
children do you think that DHS basically lost, didn't have
track of during the 4 years of the Biden administration that
were made into the United States?
Ms. Hopper. The reports vary, but as of the last number
that we were made aware of was over 325,000 children that went
unaccounted for.
Mr. Gimenez. Three hundred and twenty-five thousand
children are not accounted for. So my colleagues on the other
side don't want to speak about this hearing. They want nothing
to do with this hearing. All right. Why? Because of the
failure, and one of the greatest failures in American history,
of the Biden administration, I believe, was in not keeping
track of children. It wasn't like the folks that sit on the
other side of this aisle weren't made aware by people sitting
on this side of the aisle that it was happening. You know, they
failed to do anything or speak out against really, this
atrocity that was happening to the children that were coming
through the border.
So this hearing is about the enrichment of certain, you
know, NGO's and their part in this tragedy. But also, one thing
that we haven't talked about is really, not only did this
administration enrich a lot of these NGO's, and I'm not
painting them all the same. I'm Catholic and I'm a really good
friend of our bishop in Miami. All right? You know, we have
dinner and all that. So I know the great work that they do, but
I know there's also bad apples in there.
But also the billions of dollars that flowed to the Mexican
cartels through human trafficking and all of it, all of it, and
you heard, this is not the first time you're going to hear me
say it, was done on purpose, because you can't be that stupid.
You can't be that dumb.
So the Biden administration allowed--lost track of 300,000
people, children, right, probably lost track of millions of
other people, migrants, you know, in the United States as they
were being trafficked all around, some indentured servants, the
children indentured servants and, even worse, in sex trade, all
done on purpose. That has to be one of the biggest scandals in
American history. That's why my colleagues on the other side
are running for the hills. But you can run, but you can't hide
and you can't justify the inexcusable. It's not like we didn't
tell them. It wasn't like I wasn't here for 4 years telling
them, hey, this is happening and it's done on purpose. A lot of
my colleagues here were doing the same thing, and they just ran
away. Now they're trying to say, well, I don't want to talk
about this. I don't want to talk about what we're talking about
today.
So what we're trying to guess bring to light is we want to
make sure this never happens again. Yes, we need to bring it to
light right now because it wasn't going to be brought to light
under the Biden administration, all right, and make sure that
it never happens again. I thank God that we have President
Trump in office who has controlled the border. So the cartels
aren't getting richer by the minute using human trafficking,
and that our children--those children are not being exploited.
So, again, what can we do to make sure this never happens
again, Ms. Hopper?
Ms. Hopper. Thank you for your question. I actually had
compiled a couple of policy recommendations. Now there are more
than what--that I can provide. But first of all, we need to
initiate forensic audits of all ORR contracts over $100 million
and potentially suspend funding until completed, along with
implementing full clawback provisions for unspent funds and
mandate independent Federal oversight, standardized tracking,
and thorough home studies for UAC placements.
Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. I hope that we as a committee can
take those recommendations and put them into legislation. I
hope it would be a bipartisan effort, because what's happening
to those children is definitely a crime.
Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Kennedy. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Point of order.
Mr. Guest. Point of order.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. I ask unanimous consent to include
into the record this Republican press release from this
committee saying that Catholic Charities and the U.S.
Conference of Catholic Bishops is, in fact, under
investigation.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be admitted.
[The information follows:]
Press Release Submitted by Hon. Timothy M. Kennedy
June 11, 2025
This week, House Committee on Homeland Security Chairman Mark E.
Green, MD (R-TN) and Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and
Accountability Chairman Josh Brecheen (R-OK) launched a probe into more
than 200 non-governmental organizations (NGO's) that were involved in
providing services or support to inadmissible aliens during the Biden-
Harris administration's historic border crisis.
The Chairmen are examining whether these NGO's used taxpayer
dollars to facilitate illegal activity, as the previous administration
incentivized millions of inadmissible aliens to cross our borders--many
of whom were subsequently aided by NGO's after being released at the
border under the Biden-Harris administration's mass catch-and-release
policies. Most recently, one recipient of the letter, the Coalition for
Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA), has been linked to the far-left,
anti-law enforcement riots in Los Angeles. Another recipient of the
letter, Southwest Key Programs, received more than $3 billion under the
previous administration to provide services, including the
transportation and housing of unaccompanied alien children. Read the
full letter to CHIRLA here.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/2025-06-
10-Green-Brecheen-to-Salas-CHIRLA-re-Federal-Funding.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the letter, the Chairmen request each NGO complete a survey that
includes questions on the Government grants, contracts, and
disbursements they have received; any lawsuits against the U.S. Federal
Government they are petitioning; amicus briefs they have filed in any
lawsuit brought against the U.S. Federal Government; any legal service,
translation service, transportation, housing, sheltering, or any other
form of assistance provided to illegal immigrants or unaccompanied
alien children since January 2021; and more.
In each letter, the Chairmen write, ``To respond to unprecedented
surges of illegal immigrants between January 20, 2021, and January 20,
2025, the Federal Government outsourced a much greater share of its
migrant response to NGO's, increasing NGO revenues while placing the
burden of the Biden Administration's policies on American taxpayers.
Under the Biden Administration, the Department of Homeland Security
(DHS) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) funneled
billions of dollars to NGO's to provide material support, including
transportation, translation services, and housing, to illegal aliens
throughout the United States. The Biden Administration's reliance on
NGO's therefore created a pull factor by signaling to those who arrived
illegally or without proper documentation that they could expect such
assistance, all expensed to American taxpayers, once they arrived in
the United States.''
The Chairmen continue, ``Meanwhile, these same NGO's saw their
annual revenues rise significantly. For example, it was reported that
three prominent NGO's that assisted illegal aliens made a combined $597
million in revenue in 2019, while in 2022 those NGO's enjoyed a
combined revenue of $2 billion. Further, the Committee is concerned
that some of these NGO's may currently be actively advising and
training illegal aliens on strategies to avoid cooperation with
immigration officials. An undercover video recently exposed one NGO,
which receives 55 percent of its revenue from Federal and State
government grants, for training illegal aliens to avoid or potentially
impede immigration officials.''
The Chairmen conclude, ``The Committee is also deeply troubled by
the near-total lack of accountability for how these dollars are being
spent by NGO's. In March 2023, the DHS Office of Inspector General
(OIG) reported an audit of how NGO's spent millions of dollars received
from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Ultimately, the
government watchdog could not account for more than half of the funding
it had audited, due to lack of proper documentation by these groups.''
A few of the NGO's that received this letter:
Catholic Charities USA
Council on American-Islamic Relations
Haitian Bridge Alliance
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
The Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA)
Global Refuge
Southwest Key Programs
Endeavors
Make the Road New York
background
The committee's Phase One report into the Biden-Harris
administration's border crisis, published in July 2023, found that from
the early days of the crisis in 2021 to the end of the previous
administration, DHS released inadmissible aliens to a vast network of
NGO's, particularly those located at the border, who then provided
logistical support to inadmissible aliens. These groups received
billions of taxpayer dollars from DHS to provide all manner of services
to illegal aliens once they were released from U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) or Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) custody,
including food, lodging, and transportation to the destination of their
choice. In 2022, ICE told Fox News that it was transporting these
individuals ``to airports and transit hubs, and coordinat[ing] with
non-governmental organizations to provide migrants with shelter, food,
clothing and transport.''
The Government Accountability Office (GAO) left no doubt about the
Federal Government's collaboration with NGO's at the Southwest Border,
per a report issued April 19, 2023. In the study, the GAO notes, ``When
releasing these noncitizens into the U.S., DHS components such as CBP
and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement may coordinate with
nonprofit organizations that provide services such as food, shelter,
and transportation.'' One groundbreaking study in 2022 used mobile-
device data to show that NGO's are serving as a launching pad for
illegal aliens to disperse throughout the country.
In April, Chairmen Green and Brecheen sent a letter to the Chinese-
American Planning Council (CPC) in response to a video reportedly
showing employees of the NGO--which has been awarded over $1 million in
taxpayer funding since 2022--advising illegal aliens on how to evade
apprehension by ICE. The NGO has allegedly received funding from
Chinese government-backed entities that are linked to the Chinese
Communist Party (CCP), according to new reports.
In March, Chairmen Green and Brecheen were joined by Subcommittee
on Emergency Management and Technology Chairman Dale Strong (R-AL) in
sending letters to the mayors of New York City, Los Angeles, and
Chicago, investigating whether Federal funds were given to entities
engaged in or facilitating illegal activities during the Biden-Harris
administration's historic border crisis. The committee suspects that
funds awarded, obligated, or distributed under the Shelter and Services
Program (SSP) helped incentivize illegal immigration.
In October 2023, Chairman Green and then-Chairman of the
Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Accountability Dan
Bishop sent 2 letters documenting the committee's deepening
investigation into suspicious contracts awarded by ICE that were
facilitated by ICE official Claire Trickler-McNulty and her former
colleague, Andrew Lorenzen-Strait.
In August 2023, Lorenzen-Strait admitted in an undercover video
that he used his previous connections with former President Joe Biden's
2020 transition team to help facilitate sole-source, no-bid contracts
to the non-profit group Endeavors--for which Lorenzen-Strait went to
work in January 2021 as senior director for migrant services and
Federal affairs--to provide services to illegal aliens. Despite having
no experience as lead contractor for such shelter services, Endeavors
ultimately received more than $600 million in contracts from DHS and
HHS. Lorenzen-Strait later left the organization in September 2022.
Trickler-McNulty was the ICE official in charge of approving or
terminating contracts involving new alien detention facilities and
Alternatives to Detention (ATD) programs, and she has prior
professional relationships with anti-enforcement groups. The Chairmen
demanded answers from Mr. Lorenzen-Strait and were joined by then-
Chairman of the Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcement Clay
Higgins (R-LA) in demanding answers from then-Acting ICE Director
Patrick J. Lechleitner on the concerning reports of impropriety and
suspected anti-enforcement bias at senior levels in the agency.
Mr. Guest. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the
State of Michigan, Dr. Thanedar, for his 5 minutes of
questions.
Mr. Thanedar. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking
Member.
Today I speak as a representative of the American people
who desire accountability, transparency, and integrity. My
Republican colleagues on this committee continue to discuss
fabricated allegations and are intimidating NGO's, a step
straight out of the authoritarian playbook. If they want to
investigate fraud, waste, and abuse, this committee should
instead focus on DHS Inspector General Joseph Cuffari's failure
to uphold his office's core principles of accountability,
transparency, and integrity.
The position of Inspector General is a vital one. IGs are
tasked with ensuring the agency they oversee remains honest and
lawful. During a period when the DHS is riddled with
incompetence and abuse of law, the Inspector General is ever so
important. However, it is clear that Mr. Cuffari is incapable
of holding DHS responsible due to his own disregard for
accountability.
IG Cuffari misused 1.4 million in taxpayer dollars by
hiring a private law firm to investigate his own employees in
retaliation for their criticism of his qualifications. He
ultimately had to pay one of those employees 1.7 million
settlement. Inspector Generals are supposed to protect
whistleblowers from retaliation, not be the source of
retaliation.
The IG misrepresented himself during his confirmation
process by failing to disclose when asked that at the time of
his retirement from the Justice Department, he was under
investigation by the DOJ's Office of Inspector General for
ethics violations. Furthermore, he provided inaccurate and
misleading answers with respect to possible misconduct when he
was a Federal law enforcement officer. We also know that Mr.
Cuffari routinely deleted text messages from his own
Government-issued phone, a violation of Federal recordkeeping
laws. Last, he continuously obstructed this committee's work to
by refusing to respond to inquiries and blocking his employees
from appearing for transcribed interviews.
Investigating all of these controversies, the Council of
Inspector General on Integrity and Efficiency, an office then
run by a Trump-appointed Inspector General, found that Mr.
Cuffari had abused his authority and engaged in substantial
misconduct, recommending that President Biden fire him. Mr.
Cuffari's tenure as Inspector General has been marked by fraud,
waste, and abuse. He has rendered the very watchdog office
meant to protect DHS from abuse and mismanagement untrustworthy
and inefficient. For the sake of accountability and for the
sake of public trust in Government, this committee must demand
more from the Inspector General and hold him responsible.
Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move
that the committee subpoena DHS Inspector General Joseph V.
Cuffari to appear before this committee to provide sworn
testimony and to produce all relevant documents regarding his
performance as the DHS Inspector General.
With that----
Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chair, I move to table.
Mr. Thanedar [continuing]. I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back. There has been a
motion from Mr. Gimenez from Florida to table, the gentleman
that moves the table. That motion is privileged and is
nondebatable.
All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
All those opposed, signify by saying no.
The ruling of the Chair is that the ayes prevail.
Is there a motion for a recorded vote? Dr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. Yes. Yes.
Mr. Guest. A motion for a recorded vote has been made. If
we will take a moment to allow the Clerk to return to his
position.
Would the Clerk please call the roll?
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans. Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. No.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
Ms. Pou. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
[No response.]
Mr. Swalwell. How am I recorded?
The Clerk. I am sorry, I didn't see who the request was
from.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Swalwell.
The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell is not recorded.
Mr. Swalwell. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
The Clerk. The Chair has not been recorded.
Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to be
recorded?
Mr. Higgins. How is Higgins recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins was not recorded.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Any additional Members who wish to be recorded
on this vote?
The Clerk will tally and report the totals.
The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 13 ayes
and 11 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion is agreed to.
At this time, the Chair would recognize for 5 minutes of
his questioning Mr. Pfluger from the great State of Texas.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Never been so
disappointed to sit in a partisan hearing. I mean, what a joke.
Let me just correct the record for the gentleman from
Mississippi talking about the floods in Texas and FEMA not
being there. False. Completely false. They were there. I don't
think the Ranking Member was there. I was there. Several people
on this committee were there. So the assertion that FEMA was
not there, you want to politicize something, go politicize
something else, but that is out of bounds. What a tragedy. To
try to take advantage of that in this space, the Homeland
Security space, formed after 9/11, what a tragic statement to
make. I mean, of all the things. We kind-of knew the
politicization was coming, but for it to happen in this
committee. The Secretary was there multiple times. FEMA
director was engaged everywhere. People on this committee were
recovering and searching for bodies. I am just shocked, totally
shocked at that statement.
You know, where else my colleagues on the other side of the
aisle were not? They weren't at the border for the last 4
years. I was there. I would like to seek unanimous consent to
submit for the record 2 videos from the Darien Gap from a CODEL
in 2023, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Without objection.*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* The videos are retained in committee files and they are available
upon request.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Pfluger. These videos show the children that are
walking through. Only one Democrat accepted the offer to go to
that CODEL, to go see first-hand. Only one. The entire
subcommittee was invited and yet only one and he is no longer a
Member. Only one. You know how many hearings we had at the
border from 2021 and 2022? Zero. You know how many hearings we
had on border security from 2021 to 2022? Zero. So it is pretty
rich to hear the assertions from the gentleman from Mississippi
that the FEMA director is not involved in flooding. The DHS is
not involved in flooding.
Ms. Hopper, in your testimony, you talk about unprecedented
trafficking due to lack of sponsor vetting, and you also talk
about alarming conditions and falsified records. I am going to
give you 2 minutes to describe the lack of sponsor vetting that
led to the abuse of children at a level that is completely
unprecedented. Be specific.
Ms. Hopper. Thank you for your time. When we're talking
about sponsor vetting, when I spoke with a retired Border
Patrol agent, he had said that the requirements to adopt a dog
that was about to be euthanized were higher than the standards
and the documents that needed to be provided for an adult to
sponsor a child. He went through more hoops to adopt a dog than
what people would go through to sponsor a child. When it only
takes 2 phone calls to verify that someone picks up on the
other line, voice verification, or you receive a photograph of
an identification through WhatsApp with no facial match to the
person sending the photograph; when people talk about doing
better job in photoshop with fake IDs than what the documents
they received in a picture of an ID. No meaningful background
checks on these sponsors, when you have children that are
unaccompanied, and as a mother, as a Christian, as a Hispanic,
you have children being sent to known pedophiles, known gang
members, known individuals with criminal backgrounds, that is
what led to this.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you. Every single person that was on
this committee from 2021 to the end of President Biden's
presidency went to the border multiple times, multiple times,
and saw these atrocities that were happening first-hand, talked
to these kids, saw the ones that were left in the brush. So
it's pretty rich to say that we shouldn't be looking at NGO's
that had a role, that were culpable and complicit in not
vetting people or not doing the appropriate work.
Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you for holding this
hearing. I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr.
Swalwell.
Mr. Swalwell. Nobody asked for the cruel deportations that
we are seeing right now. We were promised that violent
criminals, the worst in our community, would be removed. I am
good with that. I don't want violent criminals who are
undocumented in our community. I will help with that. Put out a
list of a thousand people, most Americans are up for getting
those folks out of our community. We were promised the worst
would be removed.
What we have found is that rather than focusing on the
worst offenders in our community, this administration arrested
a 6-year-old battling leukemia and detained that 6-year-old in
the cruelest, harshest conditions. ICE detained a 6-year-old
leukemia patient and his family even though they followed every
immigration rule. In detention, the children cried every night
according to the family's attorney. The woman's 6-year-old son
also experienced bruising and bone pain, both symptoms of
leukemia, and missed an appointment related to his cancer
treatment. His sister barely ate.
Don't give me this Christian nonsense that I have heard
from some of these witnesses. I am a Christian, I am a father,
I am from a law enforcement family. I was a prosecutor. This is
not who we are. This is not what any American signed up for.
This administration deported a 4-year-old American citizen
battling cancer. They arrested a U.S. marshal. They are not up
for this job. They are just up for the cruelty, for owning the
libs. They are not serious about protecting our communities
from the worst.
These ICE agents running around our communities like masked
bank robbers, terrorizing women, they are going to get
themselves hurt, and I hope that doesn't happen. We are already
seeing women are being targeted by people who are impersonating
ICE agents. I hope every State that is able to and every
community that is able to unmasks ICE with their policies. If
you are standing on the law, you can show your face.
The FBI, they are probably doing a search-and-seizure right
now at some dangerous criminal's home. They are not masked.
They loudly on their blue jackets have that yellow insignia
that says FBI. No other law enforcement agency in America runs
around our communities masked. It is time that we unmask ICE.
This is an administration that does not want to be held
accountable. Secretary Noem does not want to come in and
testify. Stephen Miller certainly doesn't want to sit in that
chair and defend putting this 6-year-old battling leukemia into
deportation proceedings. Tom Homan doesn't want to come here
and defend why he thinks it is OK to target people based on
their accent and the color of their skin. Yes, he said that.
Thankfully, a California court has shut that down and,
hopefully, more lawsuits are brought across America to shut
that down.
But my Republican colleagues in Congress, they don't work
for the administration. They are, theoretically, an independent
branch of Government, Article 1, the preeminent branch of
Government. So why do they go for this? Why do they enable
this? Why aren't they outraged that this 6-year-old boy was in
a condition where children are crying every night and
experiencing bone pain as he fights cancer?
This issue is pretty simple. Go after the worst and protect
the most vulnerable, the ones who are contributing to our
community. So if our Republican colleagues are not up for
holding the administration accountable, then Democrats will.
So, Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I
move that the committee subpoena White House Deputy Chief of
Staff for Policy and Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.
Mr. Guest. Does the gentleman yield back?
Mr. Swalwell. Yes.
Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
Mr. Higgins. Motion to table.
Mr. Guest. There has been a motion to table.
Mr. Swalwell. Recorded vote.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman moves the motion to table. The
motion to table is privileged and nondebatable.
All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
by saying aye.
Any opposed, no.
The ruling of the Chair is the ayes have it.
Mr. Swalwell----
Mr. Swalwell. Recorded vote.
Mr. Guest [continuing]. Is there a motion for a recorded
vote? A motion for a recorded vote has been made. We will allow
the Clerk a moment to resume his position.
The Clerk will call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. No.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
Mr. Swalwell. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
Mr. Magaziner. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Goldman.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
Mr. Goldman has not been recorded.
Mr. Goldman. No, sir.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
The Clerk. The Chair has not yet been recorded.
Mr. Guest. Chair votes aye.
The Clerk. The Chairman votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to have
their vote recorded? If not, the Clerk will report the total to
the committee.
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 14 ayes
and 12 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion is passed at this time.
The Chair would recognize the gentleman from the great
State of New York, Mr.--oh, I am sorry. At this time, we would
recognize the gentleman from the great State of Texas, Mr.
Luttrell, for his questioning.
Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am going to point out Mr. Swalwell's point about that
young man, and I don't know the information on it, that he was
detained. We have to do a better job. You know, here on this
committee, as far as oversight goes, there are multiple
problems that I see. We should do our absolute best in the
Department to not make mistakes. The number of 325,000 missing
children is a problem. We shouldn't have that problem.
My question is to Mr. Howell and Ms. Hopper. When those
babies came across the border and were touched by Homeland
Security and then passed on to an NGO, I would think that the
NGO should have responsibility of knowing where those children
went, correct?
Ms. Hopper. They should.
Mr. Luttrell. Are we aware whether or not the NGO's have
records of who took those children into custody? Because I
would think that we should have the NGO's also in front of us
answering those questions so we can find those children.
Ms. Hopper. They should.
Mr. Luttrell. Do they?
Ms. Hopper. That would be a great question for the NGO's.
Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Howell.
Mr. Howell. Congressman, in litigation, we have sued the
Department for record sets kept by the NGO's that the
Department has access to. Those record sets do not have a lot
of information. That is by design. It is why the Government
offloads this responsibility to nonprofits so they don't have
to answer your tough questions and have custody of this
derogatory information.
Mr. Luttrell. So to clarify your statement, NGO's are not
to be held accountable for data aggregation on children that
they move from their--through their organization into custody
of someone else?
Mr. Howell. They absolutely should be held accountable.
Mr. Luttrell. I know they should be, but are you saying
that they are or are not?
Mr. Howell. Are not.
Mr. Luttrell. And that is in the language that has been
created for NGO's to get Government grants?
Mr. Howell. Correct. There are obligations on the recipient
of grants to keep statistics, information, et cetera, and all
sorts of other legal obligations that are upon them.
Ms. Hopper. To add to that, they have a contractual
accountability. But aside from contractual accountability, it
ends there.
Mr. Luttrell. What you got?
Mr. Rosas. Well, that's exactly the problem, because it's
not just the fact that we had this massive volume of people and
so things are obviously going to slip through the cracks.
There's no way to really figure out exactly how many they ran
through or how many they processed, because, like Border Patrol
at the time, and Customs, they were overwhelmed because people
had a greater incentive to arrive illegally because of the
policies pursued by the Biden-Harris administration.
Mr. Luttrell. So to my understanding for this committee and
moving forward, we need to make sure that legislation states
properly that any NGO, whether or not be it the Catholic
organization or whomever, has to follow certain guidelines and
rules which obviously that is not in place. Correct? In order
for us to maintain accountability for any and all who come
through our border, child, whomever, into the United States of
America, we need to know exactly where they are at all times.
Correct?
Ms. Hopper. It should be tied in the contract along with
the grant money that it is outlined who is responsible for the
data collection and management, whether it's HHS or the NGO's.
If the NGO's are responsible, it needs to outline the
requirements and the expectations of how to maintain.
Mr. Luttrell. So DHS needs to provide those, those
standards to any NGO. Those NGO's need to have those standards
passed on to anybody that is receiving a child.
Ms. Hopper. If they're accepting the grant dollars.
Mr. Luttrell. Correct. So that is our next step. I would
say that is pretty simple. Right?
Mr. Howell. I would say the simpler solution is to stop
funding the invasion of the United States. We can impose the
standards.
Mr. Luttrell. I don't--OK. I got you, buddy. I am trying to
go granular on this. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I am
trying to fix a problem that exists. We can bitch about it all
day long, which we are just going to beat each other up and we
are not going to go anywhere. I am really trying to fix this
problem. OK? So we have to move legislatively in order to solve
that problem.
Mr. Howell. Right. H.R. 2 contains a provision which would
do a lot of that. It could also be improved.
Mr. Luttrell. OK. So my next step as Congressional Member
is to write a legislation that both sides would agree on in
order to fix this problem. That sounds like a pretty good fix.
Correct?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Higgins [presiding]. The gentlemen yields.
Mr. Goldman is recognized for questioning.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Here we are again La-La-Land and Homeland Security
Committee conducting oversight of the President and his
administration. Great. Because there are many, many things that
Congress should be conducting oversight over this
administration. Donald Trump campaigned on finding convicted
criminals who are unlawfully here in this country and deporting
them. The worst of the worst, he said. Instead, he and his
unidentified, masked secret ICE agents are snatching and
arresting immigrants from court proceedings, nonviolent,
noncriminal immigrants pursuing legal pathways to immigrate to
this country, and then illegally detaining them in horrific
conditions and even possibly deporting them despite the fact
that they are here legally.
You would think the committee with jurisdiction over the
Department of Homeland Security would want to conduct oversight
over the Department's refusal to allow Members of Congress to
observe the conditions of DHS detention facilities. In fact,
there is a specific statute that authorizes both Republicans
and Democrats to conduct oversight over facilities that house
or detain immigrants. But no, the Department refuses. So we are
here in the Homeland Security Committee and I am sure the
Republican Majority of does not like it when this
administration undermines its own authority, its own statutory
authority to conduct oversight.
But no, instead of all of that, we are here talking yet
again about Joe Biden. News flash: Joe Biden is not the
President. He hasn't been the President for 7 months. So if we
are going to conduct oversight here, why are we doing it about
the Biden administration when this administration is literally
detaining lawful permanent residents and even some U.S.
citizens?
It gets worse. It is not just those masked ICE agents.
There are many FBI agents who are being called away from their
duties to investigate terrorism, violent gangs, child
trafficking, and other crimes in order to help ICE arrest and
detain immigrants with legal asylum claims, nonviolent. That
makes our homeland less safe, not more safe. So we should hear
from FBI Director Kash Patel about how many of his criminal
investigators are being taken away from their criminal
investigatory jobs keeping Americans safe in order to help
round up noncriminal immigrants trying to immigrate the right
way.
Some of these detainees are being held in Bureau of
Prisons' detention centers that are unfit for convicted
criminals to stay in. We should hear from Pam Bondi about how
much of the Department's resources are being used to detain
these nonviolent, noncriminal immigration detainees.
While they are here, we can ask them about a very pressing:
what is going on with the Epstein files? Donald Trump promised
to release them. Pam Bondi said she had the files on her desk
and that she was going to release them in the name of
transparency. Kash Patel has spent years railing against the
FBI to release the files. Many of my Republican colleagues were
banging on the table to release the Epstein files. But now, all
of a sudden, after a months-long review, Bondi and Patel say
nothing to see here. No evidence that any American would want
to see about accomplices, co-conspirators, or other people
involved.
Yesterday, the Republicans voted against releasing the
files. So what has changed? Well, we all know Donald Trump had
a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He flew on his plane, he
hung out in parties, spoke highly of him. Now there are many
people saying that Donald Trump is included in the Epstein
files. In fact, there are reporters who say that there are
videos of him with topless women. Elon Musk even confirmed that
Trump is blocking the release of these files because he is in
them. Pam Bondi says there is nothing there. But Donald Trump
even acknowledges that there is evidence there. It is just not
credible. It is made up.
This is a Truth Social post from 9:43 this morning. It is
an admission that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and the
American people deserve to know whether he is or not.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
Garbarino is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I would--pursuant to clause
2(k)(6) of rule XI----
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman is not recognized. Your time has
expired.
Mr. Goldman. I have a motion, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Garbarino, you are recognized for
questioning.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I have a motion.
Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a motion?
Mr. Goldman. Pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move
that the committee subpoena Pam Bondi, Attorney General of the
United States, and Kash Patel, the Director of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation.
Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, motion to table.
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a motion?
Mr. Garbarino. Motion to table.
Mr. Higgins. Motion to table is privileged and
nondebatable.
I shall ask all those in favor of the motion to table say
aye.
All those opposed?
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and the
motion to table is agreed to.
Mr. Goldman. Can I have a recorded vote, please?
Mr. Higgins. A recorded vote is requested. The Clerk shall
call to roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. No.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
Mr. Swalwell. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
Mr. Correa.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
Mr. Goldman. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
Mr. Hernandez.
Mr. Hernandez. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez votes no.
Ms. Pou.
Ms. Pou. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
Mr. Correa. Am I recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Correa is not recorded.
Mr. Correa. Vote no.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Guest. How am I recorded?
The Clerk. Chairman Guest is not recorded.
Mr. Guest. Chair votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Higgins. Is any other Member not recorded?
Mrs. Biggs. Biggs votes aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, what are we waiting for?
Mr. Higgins. I am sorry, sir?
Mr. Goldman. What are we waiting for?
Mr. Higgins. We are waiting for all Members to complete
voting, sir.
Mr. Goldman. We have all Members who have completed votes,
Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. I am sorry, sir?
Mr. Goldman. We would like to call the question and have
the vote tallied. All Members who are present have voted.
Mr. Higgins. Your request is heard and denied. We are
waiting for Members to return to the chamber to vote.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. Yes, Mr. Ranking Member.
Mr. Thompson. We went through this once, but that is not in
the rule.
Mr. Higgins. It is kind of you to have that opinion, Mr.
Ranking Member, but I am the Chairman and we are going to wait
till Members return for the vote. You guys are pushing a button
on these procedural votes. It is not on the agenda. It was not
discussed prior to this hearing. We are going to give all
Members of both sides ample time to return to the chamber and
cast their vote. That is the end of that debate.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman. For the record----
Mr. Higgins. Perhaps it is not.
Mr. Thompson [continuing]. The committee didn't even give
notice of this hearing. So you are talking about engaging?
Mr. Higgins. I am quite certain that the committee is
within the parameters of the rules of the House and the
committee. Mr. Ranking Member, you have been on the committee
longer than most of us have been----
Mr. Thompson. That is why I am trying to----
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. An adult.
Mr. Thompson [continuing]. Explain the rules to you.
Mr. Higgins. I am pretty sure you know the rules. We are
following the rules.
Mr. Goldman. Which rule are you following, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Higgins. You are the attorney, sir. You can look up the
rules. I can tell you that I have high confidence that this
committee, the staff of this committee is following every rule
and the parameters shall be continued. We will wait for Members
to return to the chambers. This happens all the time. This is
not new. This happens in every committee. When procedural votes
are called Members have excused themselves after their
questioning to handle our business. They have to return to the
chamber. We will allow that for the Democrats. We will allow it
for the Republicans. That is fair.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, we have never asked to wait on
to vote. We never have.
Mr. Higgins. Well, did anyone tell you to ask, Mr. Ranking
Member? Because that is----
Mr. Thompson. Yes, it is not in the rules of the committee.
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Generally a rule.
Mr. Thompson. It is not the rules of the committee.
Mr. Higgins. OK. Well, you are welcome to have that
opinion. But I state again that the committee is operating
within the parameters of the rules of the House and the
committee. I have the gavel.
Mr. Goldman. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. I have the gavel and I have the right to keep
the vote open until Members have returned from across campus to
cast an important vote.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. This is not new. It is historically accurate
and traditional in Congress.
Mr. Goldman. That is not true, Mr. Chairman. It is never
done in this committee and other committees have specific rules
that allow for the Chairman to do this. This committee does not
have that rule. We are simply asking if you are doing this
pursuant to the rules of the House or the committee that you
simply point us to the rule that allows you to do this. Because
if you are now ruling as Chairman without the authority of the
rules, we have a whole different issue.
Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, point of order.
Mr. Higgins. Point of order to the gentleman, Mr.
Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. This committee existed before the gentleman
from New York was a Member of Congress. I was in the Minority
back here in 2021. Some of my colleagues did. The Ranking
Member who was Chairman at that time repeatedly held votes open
when they were not--for Members to return here to vote, not
because----
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields?
Mr. Garbarino [continuing]. They were for one way or
another, but for Members to get back on procedural motions. I
have experienced it. When I was the Member Minority, Members
were allowed ample time to return from unscheduled votes in
this committee. Thank you.
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman yields. The gentlemen is----
Mr. Thompson. The gentlemen from New York. Since you----
Mr. Higgins. Is the Ranking Member asking----
Mr. Thompson. Yes.
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. To be recognized?
Mr. Thompson. Obviously, Mr. Garbarino, that is not true.
When did that happen? When did that happen?
Mr. Higgins. The Ranking Member is not recognized.
Does Mrs. McIver wish to be recognized?
Mr. Thompson. No, I am still talking.
Mr. Higgins. You haven't been recognized.
Mr. Thompson. You recognized me.
Mr. Higgins. Would you like--I did not.
Mr. Thompson. You did.
Mr. Higgins. You want me to recognize you now? You are
recognized now.
Mr. Thompson. Obviously, I was talking to you already, Mr.
Garbarino, because I had been recognized.
Mr. Garbarino. Yes.
Mr. Thompson. But that is not true. That is factually not
true, what you said.
Mr. Garbarino. That is--I don't recall the date, but I
recall it happening. I recall votes being held open. So because
whether there were other votes or other committees, there was
procedural motions. There were also markups where votes were
held open or sometimes delayed.
Mr. Thompson. I reclaim my time. Look, all this is just
delaying till somebody gets here. Mr. Chairman, the rules are
the rules. For you to try to make them up as you go, that is
not how you do it.
Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. Does the gentleman yield?
Mr. Magaziner. How am I recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner has not been recorded.
Mr. Magaziner. I asked to be recorded as a no.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, while we wait, can I introduce a
UC request?
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a unanimous consent request.
You are recognized.
Mr. Goldman. I would move to introduce a Truth Social post
from Donald Trump from 9:43 a.m. railing against----
Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, we are in the middle of a
vote. I don't think you can entertain a UC request.
Mr. Higgins. All right. I am advised, although quite
generous with recognizing my colleagues across the aisle here,
it is contrary specifically to the rules for you to introduce
unanimous consent. Will the gentleman let us close this vote
out? We are happy to recognize you.
Mr. Goldman. Of course. I am happy to agree.
Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. Trying to be polite.
Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman, given that there seem to be
some attendance issues, at least on the Republican side, I move
that the committee do now adjourn.
Mr. Higgins. There is an open vote right now. You are
welcome to make a motion to adjourn after we close this vote.
Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman, point of order. A motion to
adjourn is the highest privilege. So it would supersede----
Mr. Higgins. I am not doing an open vote.
Mr. Magaziner. It would supersede----
Mr. Higgins. Motion to adjourn----
Mr. Magaziner [continuing]. An open vote.
Mr. Higgins. If you continue with your motion and enter
your motion, after we have closed this vote the Chair will
entertain that.
Mr. Magaziner. But parliamentary----
Mr. Higgins. Right now----
Mr. Magaziner. Can I make a----
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. This vote is open and is going to
remain open until Members----
Mr. Magaziner. Chairman, can I ask a question?
Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Have been allowed to return.
Mr. Magaziner. Parliamentary inquiry. My understanding is
that a motion to adjourn is the highest privilege and has to be
acted on even if there is another open vote. Particularly a
vote that has not been properly closed.
Mr. Higgins. Agree, with concurrence which is reflective of
my understanding. I respect Mr. Magaziner's position and it is
privileged, but cannot be entertained during an open vote, and
this is an open vote. So if you would like to enter a motion to
adjourn, good sir, we will certainly entertain that once we
have closed this vote.
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. The madam is recognized.
Mr. Kennedy. Request a tally----
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Kennedy. Request a tally of the vote as it stands at
the moment.
Mr. Guest. Yes, the Chair will request a tally at
conclusion of the vote, when we close the vote.
Mr. Green. Green from Texas, Mr. Chairman. May I be
recognized?
Mr. Higgins. Of course. My friend from Texas is recognized.
Mr. Green. Thank you, my friend. Is it in order to make a
motion to close the vote?
Mr. Higgins. I don't believe that a motion to close a vote
is in order or required. The Chair is keeping the vote open
until Members from either side of the aisle return to the
chamber for this unscheduled procedural vote.
Mr. Green. May I consider this a ruling of the Chair?
Mr. Higgins. You can't challenge the ruling of the Chair on
a motion that is not recognized during an open vote. So if you
continue with--if you would like to submit a motion to adjourn,
I would suggest you follow the rules there as well. But you
will have to wait until this vote is closed, good sir.
Mr. Green. What I would like to do is, as we have done with
other motions, is appeal the ruling of the Chair.
Mr. Higgins. You are welcome to appeal the ruling of the
Chair if it is within the parameters of the rule, but that
appeal will not be entertained during an open vote.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, you have made a decision by
keeping the vote open. That is, in effect, a ruling. Mr. Green
is appealing that decision you have made.
Mr. Higgins. Yes, we are not going to entertain a motion or
an appeal while the vote is open, Mr. Ranking Member. You know
that.
Mr. Thompson. Well, I know it, but it is not the rules.
Mr. Higgins. We have always--and ladies and gentlemen, I
understand your position, understand you are making a stance in
the Homeland Security Committee.
Mr. Thompson. We are just making a stance for you to follow
the rules.
Mr. Higgins. Historically and traditionally, this committee
and every committee I have served on has kept votes open when
you have an unscheduled procedural vote to allow Members to
return to the chamber to cast a vote.
Mr. Brecheen. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. This happens if we are in the Majority or you
are in the Majority. It is ideologically, you know, appropriate
from either perspective to allow your Members to return to the
chamber. It is certainly the historical and traditional means
by which we deal with unscheduled procedural votes.
Mr. Brecheen. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Higgins. Who was that, please? Mr. Brecheen, you are
recognized.
Mr. Brecheen. Point of order or parliamentary inquiry. I
would put it to you, but I would put it to the Democrat
opposition, also, is I would love for someone to point out
where the rules say that you, as Chairman of a committee, do
not have the discretion over this matter. The accusation that
the rules are being violated, but yet where is it in the rules
that does not give the Chairman the allowance or the discretion
to make this decision?
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Brecheen yields.
Mr. Clerk, how is Mr. Mackenzie recorded?
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie has not yet been recorded.
Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
Mr. McCaul has not been recorded.
Mr. McCaul. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul votes aye.
Mr. Higgins. The Clerk will record a tally.
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 15 ayes
and 14 noes.
Mr. Higgins. The motion to table has succeeded. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Magaziner for questioning. You have a motion? I
am sorry. Mr. Magaziner, you have a motion?
Mr. Magaziner. No, I will proceed.
Mr. Higgins. The gentleman withdraws his intention. Mr.
Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
witnesses for being here. I am sorry that you are experiencing
this today. It is not normal how the committee works.
I will tell you, it is amazing listening to the other side
complain about our law enforcement officers, ICE, and saying
that they should not be wearing masks even though they are
rounding up MS-13 criminals, who in my district would chop up
children with machetes whether I was in Brentwood or C.I. But
they want them to be demasked and possibly face retribution. It
is amazing. The first time that I am asking--they are asking
for anybody be demasked. I mean antifa, they can wear their
masks. The violent protesters that burned down cities, burned
down cars, looted, they can keep their masks on. God forbid we
hold criminals accountable and ask them to be demasked. But our
law enforcement officers, let's put them in danger for
retribution from violent drug cartels and MS-13, who we know,
whether in the United States or in Mexico or in South America
or in Central America, kill whoever they want, however they
want, whenever they want. But let's put our law enforcement
officers in harm's way.
Ms. Hopper, organizations that aided and embedded illegal
immigration activities must be held accountable and the
committee has identified countless nongovernmental
organizations appear to have played a larger role in propping
up the Biden administration's border crisis, helping play a
role in obscuring the true extent of the lawlessness that
occurred over the last 4 years. Can you highlight some of the
most egregious examples of the activities NGO's engaged in in
support of the Biden administration's open border policies?
Ms. Hopper. Thank you. Absolutely. I think Florida's grand
jury review of the whole unaccompanied children process is a
great place to start if people haven't looked into that. There
are numerous situations where you can look at the funding of
what the NGO's took in, starting with the 990's. Then when you
start to zoom in, you look at the program mismanagement, waste,
fraud, and abuse. This isn't about the humanitarian mission.
This isn't about the religious component of the organization,
the nonprofit. We heard people bring up the religious component
of the nonprofit. That has nothing to do with that. It has to
do with how the humanitarian organization handled the program,
handled these children, handled these funds, and handled the
sponsors. They didn't, they didn't handle any of that. Now, not
all NGO's mismanaged children and mismanaged funds, but there
were a lot of them that did. Taxpayers funded it, they paid for
it, and they must be held accountable for it.
Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much. Can you also elaborate
on the extent to which the Biden administration's reliance on
nongovernmental organizations endangered the lives of those
children? I know you touched about it a little bit, but can you
talk about especially the UACs? That is something that was--we
saw a lot of UACs being sent up to New York, to Long Island, my
district, and there was no follow-up or very little follow-up
after they were sent. Can you talk about that, please?
Ms. Hopper. Yes. So once NGO's were sending children to
their sponsors, they were supposed to have an individual
traveling with them to make sure that they got to their
destination. We were actually on a flight with numerous UACs
that were unaccompanied, couldn't speak the language, and
airlines struggled to communicate with them. They were
traveling alone. When we spoke with the flight attendants, they
outlined numerous situations where children showed up at
incorrect locations. CPS would have to be called because the
sponsor either didn't show up, they were at the wrong location,
they couldn't communicate with these unaccompanied children,
and they were not supposed to be traveling alone. Once they got
to that State, there wasn't a follow-up, there were 2 phone
calls and there was very little follow-up or coordination with
State-level agencies to share that information for meaningful
welfare checks.
Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much for your answer.
Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of House rule XI,
I have a motion requesting the committee subpoena former
Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas. He refused
to testify here in his own impeachment trial. We believe the
Americans should hear from him on his unlawful policies,
especially the ones that we are addressing here today. So that
is my motion, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Guest [presiding]. Motion made by Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Magaziner. Point of order. I am sorry, I will defer to
the----
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I move to table the motion.
Mr. Guest. Motion to table. The motion to table is
privileged and is nondebatable.
All those in favor of the motion to table, signify voting
by saying aye.
All those opposed, signify by saying no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the nays have it.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, ask for a recorded vote.
Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested on the motion
to table. We will allow the Clerk to resume his position.
Mr. Clerk, if you will please call the roll.
Mr. Kennedy. Point of order. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
I would like this committee to wait for other Members to return
from both sides of the aisle for the vote.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Kennedy, thank you for your input, but, Mr.
Clerk, if you would please call the roll.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you for your consideration, Mr.
Chairman, as you are clearly demonstrating your partisanship in
not allowing Members of this committee to return, as you held
this open for at least 15 minutes on the last vote, which I
have never seen anything so ridiculous in my entire two-plus
decades of service in Government. This committee has broken the
rules countless times today and it continues.
Mr. Ogles. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. If you open the vote so we can begin, is it
possible for you to hold the vote open so other Members can
return it as we just did previously, sir?
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, if you will call the roll, Members
will have the opportunity to return as the vote is being called
and as votes are being recorded. So please call the roll. I
believe we also have votes that are occurring now on the House
floor, so if you will call the roll on this matter.
Mr. Magaziner. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Garbarino
stated that Secretary Mayorkas did not come before this
committee. He came dozens of times, but Stephen Miller has
refused to come. Tom Homan has refused to come.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, votes have been called in the
chamber. If you will please call the roll on this matter.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
Mr. McCaul. McCaul votes no.
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul votes no.
Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes no.
Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes no.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes no.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes no.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
Mr. Gonzales. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales votes no.
Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes no.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes no.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes no.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes no.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes no.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes no.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes no.
Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes no.
Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes no.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Aye.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes aye.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes aye.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes aye.
Mr. Magaziner.
Mr. Magaziner. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes aye.
Mr. Goldman.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes aye.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes aye.
Mrs. McIver.
Mrs. McIver. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes aye.
Ms. Johnson.
Ms. Johnson. Aye.
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes aye.
Mr. Hernandez.
Mr. Hernandez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez votes aye.
Ms. Pou.
Ms. Pou. Aye.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes aye.
Mr. Carter.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Any other Members wish to record their vote?
Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
Mr. Guest. Please record me as a no.
Mr. Goldman has entered the Chamber. Mr. Goldman, would you
like to be recorded?
Mr. Goldman. I would. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Any other additional Members who wish to be
recorded?
Mr. Clerk, if you will please report the tally.
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 16 ayes
and 12 noes.
Mr. Guest. The motion to table is not agreed to.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. With votes being called, the Chair intends to
call a recess. We will return back after votes have been called
to then debate the motion. So at this time, the committee
stands in recess.
[Recess.]
Mr. Guest. The committee will come to order. At this time,
I would like to recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Garbarino, on his motion.
Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, out of respect for the
witnesses that are here and the importance of this topic, I am
going to withdraw my motion.
Mr. Guest. The motion has been withdrawn.
I will now recognize Mrs. Ramirez for 5 minutes for her
questioning.
Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking
Member Thompson.
It has been a long time in this committee, but I want to
start by talking about civil society, because civil society, in
my opinion, is the first line of defense for our communities
when authoritarianism, you know, like the one that the
President is attempting on our democracy, tries to attack us.
When Trump demands a public enemy and abuses our authority to
target them, it is civil society that holds the line.
I find it deeply undemocratic and un-American and
unacceptable that my Republican colleagues are targeting more
than 212 organizations across the country that assist community
members, including immigrant children, since we have been
talking about children, as if you care about immigrant
children, and asylum seekers to meet their basic needs. So I
want to make sure that I remind my colleagues, since we have
been here for a while, that Secretary Noem and this
administration, a couple of things.
First of all, crossing a border to the United States to
request the opportunity to apply for asylum is actually legal.
Adjusting your status, if you have a pathway to do so, is
legal. Supporting immigrants to apply for asylum, TPS, parole,
and other forms of relief is legal. Supporting people to become
United States citizens is also legal.
Look, Republicans are going to lie and gaslight us all to
help their fascist boss suppress dissent. Let me ask you, who
drags the reputations of essential nonprofits in our
communities? I will tell you who. Authoritarians, bullies,
these weak, wannabe kings who are scared of civil society
because they uphold the democracy.
This hearing has been unserious, especially since the
illegal and unlawful activities are actually being perpetrated
by the people in the White House, the Cabinet, and Republican
leadership. Tom Homan said during an interview that ICE
officers and Border Patrol agents don't need any probable cause
to walk up to someone, question them, and detain them based on
their physical appearance, occupation, or location. So he
basically said that if someone looks like me and a couple of
colleagues here, they can walk up and question us. That is
racial profiling, which is illegal.
At the same time, Homan consistently complains about the
communities like the one I represent from Chicago for knowing
their rights, because if they know their rights, it is harder
for him to violate them. Tom Homan's disregard for our rights
is unconstitutional. Since Mr. Homan, aka the Border Czar, has
the audacity to repeatedly brag about his legal immigration
enforcement practices and disrespect due process, I demand he
come before us to respond to the multitude of questions we have
for him in person.
But not just him. Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida is
complicit in the construction of the Alligator Alcatraz and the
violations of human rights being perpetrated there. Florida's
replica of one of our most notorious prisons is a clear
illustration of the brutality of the Trump administration. They
unlawfully robbed funds from cities supporting asylum seekers
to build a CECOT-like detention center in one of the most
dangerous places in the United States. Yet DeSantis has the
audacity to repeatedly brag about the inhumane conditions at
Alligator Alcatraz and celebrate the violence being perpetrated
with American tax dollars. Governor DeSantis must testify
before this committee and provide answers to our questions
about the atrocities being committed in his State.
He should also bring Secretary Marco Rubio. Because the
truth is we shouldn't be sending people to foreign countries
when they may face torture and death with no chance for due
process or appeal, particularly when they have not had their
day in court and have not been subject to an extradition
request. It is a gross violation of our shared humanity and our
ideals as a Nation to use money that's been appropriated to
support refugees, to disappear them to offshore prisons in
countries they do not know and have no connection to. Yet
Trump, Noem, and Rubio have repeatedly been caught red-handed,
blatantly breaking the law, entering into backdoor agreements
with foreign countries to deport people without due process.
So, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I
move that this committee subpoena Thomas Douglas Homan, Ron
DeSantis, and Marco Rubio.
Mr. Guest. Does the gentlelady yield back?
Mrs. Ramirez. I would like to make sure that my subpoena
request is in record and is considered.
Mr. Guest. Yes, ma'am. Do you yield back?
Mrs. Ramirez. I do.
Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I move to table.
Mr. Guest. A motion to table has been offered. The
gentleman that moves the motion to table, this is, as we well
know now, a privileged and nondebatable motion.
All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by
saying aye.
Any opposed, no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. Is there a
motion?
Mrs. Ramirez. I would like a recorded vote.
Mr. Guest. There has been a motion for a recorded vote.
Mr. Clerk, thank you for your yeoman's work today. Mr.
Clerk, if you will please call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
Mr. Higgins. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
Mr. Garbarino.
Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
Mr. Luttrell. My apologies.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. You were just called, yes, sir.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. That's all right. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
Mr. Knott.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. No.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
Mr. Magaziner. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Goldman.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
Mrs. Ramirez. No.
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
Mr. Guest. Are there any Members who wish to record their
vote?
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
The Clerk. The Chairman has not yet been recorded.
Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Would you please report the tally?
Mr. Kennedy. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Yes.
Mr. Kennedy. Are we going to leave the voting tally open
until everybody gets here as we did earlier? There are people
that are still outstanding, missing votes on both sides of the
table, bipartisan.
Mr. Guest. Mrs. McIver, would you like to be recorded?
Mrs. McIver. Yes. I vote no.
The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
Mr. Guest. Will the Clerk report the tally?
Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, are we going to leave the----
Mr. Guest. Would the Clerk report the tally? You are not
recognized, Mr. Kennedy.
The Clerk. On that vote there were 13 ayes and 9 noes.
Mr. Guest. The opinion of the Chair based upon the recorded
vote, the motion prevails and this motion is, in fact, tabled.
At this point, I would recognize Mr. Strong for 5 minutes.
Mr. Strong. Thank you, Chairman Guest. To our witnesses I
want to apologize to each of you. I know that y'all have walked
into a spit wad fight here and I thank each of you for being
here before us today.
The American people deserve details, accountability, and
especially when it comes to their taxpayer dollars they deserve
answers. You think about it. In recent years, far too much
Federal funding has gone to NGO's with little oversight,
questionable practices, and, in some cases, connections that
raise serious red flags. In 2021, ICE awarded an $86 million
no-bid contract to Endeavors for hotel stays for illegal
immigrants.
Mr. Howell, could you broadly talk about the risk to border
security and accountability when the Federal Government
outsources key functions to nongovernment organizations?
Mr. Howell. Absolutely. So there's a clear break in the
paper trail and accountability. Once the money leaves DHS,
there's little in the way of reporting requirements as to how
it's spent, how it's maintained, where the illegals go, and all
sorts of other standards that relate to condition. For example,
in these nonprofit facilities, not much in the way of licensing
requirements or living standards are there. Yet you have all
this attention on ICE facilities for quite the opposite
reasons. So it's a vastly different ecosystem.
Mr. Strong. In his testimony, Mr. Rosas noted that certain
nongovernment organizations were present during the recent
unrest in Los Angeles, and many have played a role in
obstructing Federal operations. Mr. Howell, has your team
identified any instances where Federally-funded nongovernment
organizations appear to be aligned with political and advocacy
groups or campaigns in ways that could raise concerns about
conflicts of interest or inappropriate influence?
Mr. Howell. Absolutely. I think the most recent, you know,
former Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, who
was impeached, coming from Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, is an
example of how this whole system works and the very cozy
relationship between the nonprofits and Governmental actors. As
it relates to the violence we see in the streets, the foot
soldiers and organizers, I would say, are one degree removed
away from those receiving Government funds, you know, the giant
organizations like Catholic Charities and others, who do a lot
more in terms of public advocacy. It's a very complex ecosystem
all pushing in the same direction.
Mr. Strong. Turning to Ms. Hopper, DHS OIG previously found
that nearly 60 percent of certain emergency food and shelter
programs reimburses lacked adequate receipts, didn't turn in
receipts. Does this suggest a pattern of gross financial
mismanagement or potential fraud among NGO's receiving DHS
grants?
Ms. Hopper. It absolutely does. When you're unable to
provide receipts. We have first-hand accounts of facilities
serving rice and beans and charging the U.S. Government a steak
and lobster diet, that's a problem.
Mr. Strong. Ms. Hopper, in your view, how did the Federal
Government's emphasis on raid placement--rapid placement over
thorough screening create opportunities for traffickers to
exploit the Unaccompanied Alien Children Program?
Ms. Hopper. They absolutely did. We interviewed
incarcerated cartel members that knew when this administration
took over that they were not going to have access to the same
pipelines and taxpayer dollars that they had access to before.
They know that when unaccompanied children came in, they would
provide the name, number, and address of the sponsor, cartel-
controlled, so that the child could be put to work to pay off
the debt that they owed their smuggler or trafficker.
Mr. Strong. Ms. Hopper, beyond the serious risk of
exploitation and trafficking, there are growing concerns that
some unaccompanied alien children may be vulnerable to
recruitment by violent gangs like MS-13 or Tren de Aragua. Is
that something that has come up in your investigations and
research?
Ms. Hopper. It absolutely has. With the open borders, we
had numerous transnational criminal organizations, criminal
networks, bad actors come into this country and with them they
are looking for recruits. So when you have young teenagers
looking for--they have food instability, housing instability,
and they have a debt to pay off, they are going to pay that off
by working with cartel members.
Mr. Strong. Thank you. To close out my time, one issue that
has been raised by State and local law enforcement is the lack
of communication by NGO's as they facilitate the movement and
settlement of these aliens in local communities. Keeping law
enforcement out of the loop creates public safety concerns and
likewise does a disservice to the settlement of migrants. For
any of our witnesses, can you speak to why these NGO's were
encouraged not to work with local law enforcement and some of
the downstream implications of these poor policies?
Mr. Howell. It's because that would have gotten in the way
of moving as many illegal aliens around the country as humanly
possible, which was completely the opposite of the goal of the
Biden administration and the NGO's. That's why they don't
cooperate.
Ms. Hopper. They didn't cooperate because they didn't have
to cooperate. Contractually, they weren't required to and so
they didn't.
Mr. Rosas. I concur with my fellow witnesses.
Mr. Strong. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Magaziner for 5 minutes of
questioning.
Mr. Magaziner. Thank you, Chairman.
Donald Trump said he would focus on deporting criminals and
people with removal orders, but that is not what his
administration has been doing. Instead, the Trump
administration has been going after innocent, hardworking
people who have committed no crimes, including children,
including U.S. citizens, children, grandparents, veterans,
students who express unpopular political opinions, and yes,
even United States citizens. The latest data from Donald
Trump's Department of Homeland Security, their own data, shows
that more than 70 percent of those in ICE detention have no
criminal convictions.
They are locking people up who have tried immigrating to
the United States the legal way, who presented themselves at
ports of entry and asked for asylum. People like Andry
Hernandez Romero, a gay makeup artist from Venezuela, who came
to the United States seeking asylum. Listen to this. He did not
enter the country illegally. He presented himself at a port of
entry near San Diego, tried to do it the legal way. What did
the Trump administration do? They put him on a plane to El
Salvador to a prison where he is still today. He has never been
convicted of any crimes. He did not even enter the United
States illegally. We have been asking the administration, can
you give us a proof of life? Can you let us know that he is
still alive? They refused to do so.
They deported a mother from Louisiana along with her 7-
year-old daughter and 4-year-old son, both of whom are U.S.
citizens and the 4-year-old has stage 4 cancer. The mother of
these children has said that she did not consent to having her
children deported with her. Secretary Noem was here and she
said under oath that she had documentation proving that the
mother had consented. She said she would provide it. She still
has not. Representative Swalwell and I followed up with her.
She still has not presented any documentation, any rationale
for why this 4-year-old U.S. citizen with cancer was deported
to a country that is not his own.
So when I hear my colleagues and when I hear our witnesses
saying that they care about the lives of the children, I am
sorry, you have no credibility if you are not prepared to call
out the injustice of deporting a 4-year-old with cancer, a 7-
year-old with leukemia. Where is your sympathy for those
children? No, Donald Trump gets a free pass always, no matter
what he does from this crowd. That is how we know that what we
are hearing is political today, not a real concern for the
children who have been caught up in all of this.
There is more. This family in Oregon, 4 children, all U.S.
citizens. These 4 children, along with their parents, who have
no criminal record, were put into detention by ICE for 2 weeks
in a Border Patrol facility that is not designed for long-term
detention. A 10-by-10 cell that these 5 were in, they were just
released after 2 weeks. These U.S. citizen children, where is
the concern for them?
We know why this is happening. It is because on May 21,
Stephen Miller summoned ICE officials to Washington and ordered
them to make mass arrests, not to focus on criminals. He said
go after people at Home Depot and 7-Eleven. Because, again,
unlike what President Trump promised, that they were going to
go after the worst of the worst, Stephen Miller, who apparently
is calling the shots, ordered ICE to round up everybody,
regardless of whether they are hardened criminals or not.
Please, someone tell me, what threat to our country do
these children pose or their parents who have lived here and
worked here for years and committed no crimes in the country?
Is this the worst of the worst? Of course not.
This is the same Stephen Miller, by the way, who was the
architect of the family separation policy under the first Trump
administration, during which 4,600 children were removed from
their parents, some as young as 10 months old. Where is the
concern for those 4,600 children? I haven't heard a word from
any of our partisan witnesses or any of my partisan colleagues
on the other side. You lose your credibility when you refuse to
acknowledge the humanity of those 4,600 children who were
separated purposefully from their families by the first Trump
administration or the children who are being unlawfully
detained and deported today.
I will leave you with this. Pope Leo, His Holiness, posted
on X about the Trump administration deporting people to El
Salvador. He said, ``Do you not see the suffering? Is your
conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet?''
This is not what the American people want. Let's focus on
going after real criminals, not children, not U.S. citizens,
not people who are just trying to make a living, who pose no
threat. Let's focus on the criminals.
I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Brecheen for his 5 minutes of
questioning.
Mr. Brecheen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We tend to find
tactics of distraction, distraction, distraction, distraction.
It is what we see happening with people that are trying to stop
ICE from deportation efforts. We see that happening in the
committee, and H.R. 2 is not law. What H.R. 2 was designed to
do is to stop the $6 billion. That is an entire State budget.
Many of us think about the size of your State budget. Six
billion dollars under the Biden administration went to these
nongovernment organizations, many of which are 100 percent
Federally-funded, like Endeavors that reach the size of Save
the Children.
Ms. Hopper, you mentioned that in your testimony. Save the
Children been around for generations. It is designed for--that
is privately funded. This Endeavors nongovernment organization
went from $52 million and went to over $1 billion because of
Government funding.
Ms. Hopper, you talked about the NGO's being complicit. I
don't know how many were stirred by your conversation about the
17-year-old child that was placed with someone that was
discovered from the Office of Refugee Resettlement had tattoos
resembling that of MS-13 gang members. It was reported,
supervisors overruled that, a month or two later the child is--
the 17-year-old is found dead. A man passed out has his pants--
de-pantsed, sexual activity being absolutely implied. You are
talking about all the different ways that these NGO's who got
rich, hundred--$700,000 CEO figures for the CEO of Endeavors.
That man needs to be held accountable, Jon Allman.
We are talking about children that were ushered into the
interior of the United States. These NGO's profited from it.
Cozy relationships with the Democrat administration. Who knows
what political payback there is? Who knows how many of those
dollars that are still retained? When you are talking a billion
dollars retained by these organizations, who knows how many of
the activities that are trying to stop deportation are still
those dollars are reproducing after themselves? Who knows how
many times we also see in New York City people being taught how
to evade ICE? We know it is NGO's.
This is a lawmaking exercise. We hold these hearings to
hold people accountable for the misuse of taxpayer funds. This
is evil and we haven't solved it. We have to have legislation
to stop any future administration from co-opting FEMA dollars
and repurposing for these nefarious ends.
All right. Mr. Howell, you all did a project where you took
these NGO's, these 230 NGO's, some of them out of country,
helping bring people in, some of them in country working as an
Uber service, you all did a $30,000 data search on cell phones
and you found among these 230 organizations of which 15 United
Nation spends by the U.S. Government, funneled through the
United Nations ended up into some of these NGO's. You all found
that tracking 30,000 cell phones that the Uber service, these
organizations getting rich, went to every Congressional
district in this committee hearing.
Not just every Congressional district in this hearing,
every Congressional district in the United States moving
unaccompanied minors, children to these sponsors. Only 4
Congressional districts out of 435 Congressional districts
where we weren't, where these NGO's were not moving people. The
gentleman who raped and murdered Laken Riley was among the list
who had 2 trips where he went to New York City paid for at NGO
expense. I am sorry, taxpayer expense funneled through these
nongovernment organizations.
I need to let you talk.
Mr. Howell. You're absolutely right, sir. So for our study
back in 2022, when this country and towns across it, we're
seeing flights being dropped off in the middle of the night
with no advance notice, citizens were living in fear, we
decided to do a small, very small sample size of that huge mass
of the NGO blob. We looked at only 30 locations for a 1-month
period, grabbed the cell phone movement, in and out of them,
30,000 devices. From that very small sample size they went to
every single Congressional district.
Mr. Brecheen. I have got 19 seconds left. I want to say
this. You also report that in New York you saw that these funds
were being used for shelter programs, providing false residency
documents to illegals, showing them how to provide false
documents. Other NGO you found in Mexico tied into this,
illegal alien camps that had flyers teaching people--telling
people, don't forget to vote for Biden. You had NGO's advising
illegals to lie to law enforcement to evade ICE. All a part of
your organization's information. We need to spend more time on
this because this could still continue in the future absent
legislation prohibiting and cranking the screws down to make
sure this is never repeated.
I yield.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Kennedy, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Chairman. Earlier I entered into
the record a press release from this Republican-led committee
stating that the U.S. Conference of Bishops and Catholic
Charities USA are under investigation, directly contradicting
what was stated by my Republican colleagues in this committee
earlier in our deliberations.
I would like to enter into the record a letter from Pope
Francis to the bishops of the United States of America back on
February 10, 2025. Pope Francis sent a letter to the U.S.
Conference of Bishops rebuking the Trump administration on its
mass deportation policies, which included the deportation of
U.S. citizens, mind you. Just a couple of months later, what
seems like retribution from the Trump administration and
Congressional Republicans, now Catholic Charities USA and U.S.
Conference of Bishops are being investigated and funding is
being cut to the humanitarian work that they are doing across
our country. It is deeply offensive to Catholics across this
Nation and it reeks of anti-Catholicism and it needs to stop.
But this is just the tip of the iceberg. You know, as is
the case with all of our districts, there are many
organizations that do incredible work that help resettle new
Americans and refugees. We lose sight of the selfless
humanitarian work that these local nongovernment organizations
do when we rope them in with the partisan grievances that we
are hearing here today. In my own district, there are hundreds
of refugees that have settled in just the last 3 months alone.
But in the last year, across our country, over 100,000 refugees
have come to this great Nation, who have faced unimaginable
hardship based on religion, race, nationality, political
opinions, or sexual orientation. They rely on the housing, case
management, nutrition, and job placement services provided by
these NGO's. They are doing their best to make ends meet, to
become a part of a new community.
You know, while that is critical, life-altering support
made possible in large part to the Federal Government
investment in these programs, these programs and funding
streams are being cut by this administration and Congressional
Republicans. They are not only affecting jobs and livelihoods
across the country in every single community represented on
this committee, but they are forcing the workers to be laid
off. Hence the work that they were doing to help new Americans
assimilate into our country is not being done. Refugees can no
longer rely on these services, workers can no longer rely on
support from the Federal Government to keep the lights on.
Meanwhile, American people are watching as people,
including U.S. citizens and children with cancer, are grabbed
off the street by masked ICE agents in plain clothes. Migrants
are mistreated at detention center by the administration's
Department of Homeland Security. People who came here legally
to seek a better life see their futures in jeopardy under
Trump's policies.
Finally, I want to share my remarks about an incredibly
pressing issue that this committee would be better off
addressing and is suited to explore. It's already been
addressed today, but all of our hearts are broken about what
transpired in Texas with the flooding just a week and a half
ago. In Kerr County, Texas, surrounding areas experiencing the
unimaginable devastation and loss of life. Over 132 lives lost,
over 100 still missing. In the aftermath of this tragedy,
current FEMA employees sounding the alarm about the Trump
administration's slow and delayed response to Central Texas and
reporting suggesting that FEMA failed to answer many calls,
thousands of calls from victims in the days following the
flooding.
So make no mistake, emergency responders and local
officials in Texas carried out acts of heroism to save lives
and pick up the pieces of the lives that were shattered. But
this committee has an obligation to investigate how the Trump
administration's months-long degradation of FEMA, from
defunding to layoffs to consolidation, played a role in these
delays. Seventy-two hours it took them to get people on the
ground from FEMA into the flood zone to save lives and to help
those poor people in that horrific disaster. I am so
disappointed that there has not been more of a measured
response from Republicans to address the authority and
oversight of this committee.
I have sent a letter with Congressman Gabe Amo, the Ranking
Member of the House subcommittee with oversight over emergency
weather alerts, asking the administration to address these
issues. I ask you, Chairman and my colleagues, it is our
responsibility to conduct this oversight in an urgent matter
moving forward. Let's address these real threats and not chase
political distractions.
On that note, I would like to, also, with unanimous
consent, put into the record this op-ed from the former FEMA
head, Deanne Criswell, ``Cuts to Federal Response Programs
Guarantee Future Disasters.''
I yield back.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, the gentleman yields. Without
objection, be entered into the record. The gentleman yields
back.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
------
former fema head: cuts to federal response programs guarantee future
disasters/opinion
By Deanne Criswell, Newsweek, July 11, 2025
I've been an emergency manager for nearly three decades, and one
thing has never changed: All disasters begin and end at the local
level. Whether I was leading emergency operations in a small town or in
the nation's largest city, this fundamental truth remained the same--
local responders are the first line of defense. But they can't do it
alone.
Emergency management has long followed this principle: local
execution, State management, Federal support. Local firefighters, EMS,
police, and emergency managers are always the first on scene. When
local capacity is overwhelmed, they reach out to the State. When the
State needs more, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) steps
in. FEMA doesn't supplant local responders; it supports them. This
system can take days to escalate--or mere hours when disaster strikes
fast, like it did in Western North Carolina last year or Kerr County,
Texas, this past week.
Let's be clear: FEMA does not take over response operations. It
supports them. And in a disaster, time is our most precious resource.
FEMA exists to support States and communities when they need help
the most. But the system only works when it's allowed to work. In
recent months, we've seen challenges that could limit FEMA's ability to
lead: reduced grant funding, constrained hiring authorities, and
administrative delays that slow or sideline responses. These moves
don't just weaken FEMA--they weaken the entire emergency management
system.
One of the most powerful tools we have to save lives is early
warning. Sirens, wireless alerts, NOAA weather radios--these systems
work. But they require trust and investment. Communities must have the
training and system access they need to issue warnings. FEMA's grant
and technical assistance programs make this possible, especially for
smaller jurisdictions. Yet already, one major grant program has been
eliminated, stripping communities of their chance to install or
maintain life-saving systems.
FEMA's grants fund nearly half the emergency management workforce
in many communities. These dollars support planning, training,
staffing, and early warning systems--tools that are essential in the
face of increasing threats, such as hurricanes, wildfires, floods, and
even cyber attacks. Without this Federal support, we're asking local
governments to meet 21st-Century risks with 20th-Century tools.
We've been here before.
Nearly 20 years ago, Hurricane Katrina exposed critical failures in
our disaster response system. FEMA was unprepared, under-resourced, and
poorly integrated with other agencies. Still settling into the newly-
created Department of Homeland Security, the agency suffered from
dysfunctional coordination and confusion about who was in charge. Some
in top leadership had no emergency management experience. Political
affiliations, not qualifications, shaped appointments. Bureaucracy
slowed life-saving action. People died.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, FEMA was restructured and
strengthened through the Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform Act,
which clarified the agency's authorities and restored some of its
autonomy within DHS. The law mandated two key reforms: First, the FEMA
administrator must have real, on-the-ground emergency management
experience. Second, FEMA was elevated to a Presidentially-appointed,
Senate-confirmed position with direct access to the President during
disasters, cutting through red tape to speed up response. It also
introduced the concept of response doctrine through the National
Response Framework, based on five key principles: engaged partnership,
tiered response, scalable/flexible/adaptable operations, unity of
effort through unified command, and readiness to act. These reforms
weren't partisan--they were about saving lives.
Emergency management standards are born from tragedy. But the
farther we get from Katrina, the more those hard-won lessons seem
forgotten. In the case of this week's floods in Texas, FEMA was ready
to respond--but was delayed by administrative hurdles and approval
processes that took 72 hours to resolve. That's time we can never get
back. And in emergencies, delayed help can cost lives.
Imagine a major hurricane bearing down on Florida while wildfires
rage in California and floods surge across the Midwest. That's not a
hypothetical--it's our new normal. And we're talking about dismantling
the very system designed to protect us from it.
So now what?
I've spent my career responding to crises. I've seen how quickly
lives can change, and how deeply preparedness matters. The choices we
make now will shape how this Nation weathers the storms ahead--
literally and figuratively. If we continue down the path of dismantling
FEMA, we're not just inviting disaster. We're guaranteeing it.
Helping people before, during, and after disaster is not just
FEMA's job--it's America's promise to everyone who calls this great
Nation home. Every level of government has a role to play. Of course
the system can improve. But reforms must be thoughtful, informed by
experience, and shaped in partnership with the State, tribal,
territorial, and local emergency managers who rely on FEMA's support.
Now is not the time to weaken FEMA. Instead, we must strengthen it
with the essential tools, resources, and leadership to confront future
challenges head-on. Emergency managers across the country are working
tirelessly, and they don't need theatrics. What they need is genuine
partnership and unwavering support. It's time to come together and
ensure all emergency managers, including FEMA, have everything they
need to protect and serve our communities effectively.
Today, we mourn the lives lost in Kerrville, Texas. But tomorrow,
it could be any community--your community or mine. The threats we face
are increasing, not diminishing. We can't afford to strip away the
resources or experience needed to respond.
We must remember the lessons of our past--so we don't repeat them
in our future.
Deanne Criswell was the 12th FEMA Administrator and confirmed
unanimously by the U.S. Senate. Previously, she served as lead
emergency manager for New York City and Aurora, Colorado. She also was
a fire firefighter and a member of the Colorado Air National Guard.
Mr. Guest. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona,
Mr. Crane, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
hearing today on how NGO's facilitated the Biden border crisis.
You can see our colleagues are very upset that we are
having this hearing today. They don't want to talk about this
stuff. They don't want to talk about the 300,000 kids that we
still don't know where they are. They are upset that President
Trump got elected. They are upset that he is doing exactly what
he said he was going to do. We are backing him up here in
Congress. This is what the American people voted for because
they saw 4 years of the carnage that these open-border policies
plagued on the United States. We are talking about the NGO's
that they used as middlemen to carry out their operations, like
the Catholic Charities they used to facilitate, normalize, and
accelerate illegal immigration into this country.
Ms. Hopper, you have worked closely with trafficking
victims and survivors. I would like to explore the role that
the NGO's have played in enabling the trafficking and
exploitation of unaccompanied alien children. Under the last
administration, what safeguards were put in place to protect
vulnerable unaccompanied children?
Ms. Hopper. I previously discussed the post-placement
welfare checks, which consisted of 2 phone calls. Again, if the
sponsor didn't answer, the case was no longer followed up on.
But there was also a notice of concern hotline where people
could report concerns about the unaccompanied child's safety.
But what this administration found was from August 2023 to
January 2025, 65,000 calls went unanswered. Those calls spanned
from, you know, complaints about stale bread all the way to
being abused, to one case where a child's call was reporting
that grown men were coming into his room at night and they were
touching him. Nothing happened with that call. That call went
unanswered until this administration took office, went through
those 65,000 calls, made follow-ups, conducted a welfare check,
and now that child has been rescued and that sponsor has been
arrested. These are the safeguards that were put in place, but
accountability and oversight was not had.
Mr. Crane. So you are telling this committee that the Biden
administration, while they were letting all of these
unaccompanied minors into the country, and as we have talked
about today, they weren't keeping track of them, they issued
these kids a hotline that they could call if they had trouble
with the sponsor family that they were put with? You are saying
that 65,000 calls to this hotline designated to protect these
kids went unanswered. Is that what you are telling this
committee?
Ms. Hopper. Yes, sir.
Mr. Crane. Wow. That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I
believe you also said, Ms. Hopper, that according to your
research, it was easier to adopt a pet or a dog than it was to
get one of these children. Is that what you said?
Ms. Hopper. I said that it was easier to get a child, yes,
than to adopt a dog. You actually had to provide more paperwork
to adopt a pet from a pet shelter than you did to sponsor a
child.
Mr. Crane. Yes. Think about it, guys. This is exactly why
the American people are so upset. This is why they voted for
the President, and this is why they voted for this agenda, to
not only remove people from this country to secure our borders,
but to find these kids. I mean, this is completely atrocious in
a day and age where we are starting to wake up to the realities
of sex trafficking and what is going on with these kids. They
let all these kids in. We still don't know where over 300,000
of these kids are. You are sitting here testifying, saying that
they gave a hotline for these kids to report if they were OK,
if they needed anything, and 65,000 calls went unanswered. Do
you know how many staffers the administration assigned to
answering these phones and helping these kids?
Ms. Hopper. One.
Mr. Crane. One staffer? Any idea how many hours a day this
staffer was working?
Ms. Hopper. No.
Mr. Crane. Maybe that is why there were 65,000 calls that
weren't answered from these little kids. Huh? Unbelievable.
Thank you.
I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from New Jersey, Ms.
McIver, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. McIver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I first want to start off by just advising that witnesses
should definitely come here with the facts. One of the
witnesses today stated that I was arrested, and that is a
complete lie, and I want to put that on the record.
Mr. Chairman, this hearing is a shame, a sham, and a
complete disgrace. Just because Republicans don't want to see
it doesn't mean it is not true. The charities the majority is
targeting are doing the Lord's work, quite literally.
Republicans are trying to misrepresent and undermine and attack
the work of these charities do to, excuse me, these charities
do to assist the most vulnerable and underserved, all while
quoting scripture from the Bible. No matter what narrative my
colleagues across the aisle try to spin, the truth is that
these religious organizations and other nonprofits are not
political. They seek to provide aid to those who are fleeing
violence and seeking asylum.
To every person working at the charities, religious
organizations, and other NGO's that are the subject of this
hearing I say this to you, thank you and I am sorry. Thank you
for providing the services and resources that our Government
has failed to provide to desperate people who are in need. I am
sorry that Republicans are trying to intimidate you and prevent
you from carrying out this critical work.
I am appalled that this hearing is being used as an attempt
to target religious organizations and prevent them from serving
their communities in accordance with their faith. Meanwhile,
the Republican Majority has not done an ounce of oversight of
the Trump administration, even as Trump and his administration
tear apart DHS.
In January, Trump installed unelected billionaire Elon Musk
as the leader of DOGE and empowered him to derail and demonize
critical functions across the Government, including at DHS.
Elon has long had massive, unexplained ties to China. He did
not file any kind of financial disclosure, even as he took a
role in overhauling the Federal Government. But did the
Republican Majority demand any information on Musk's conflicts?
Did they ask questions about his ties to the Chinese
government, a topic that draws their interest in just about
every context every week on this committee? No, they did not.
Instead, they turned the blind eye to DOGE and installed
unqualified staffers across DHS, gained access to sensitive
security systems, and drove off untold members of dedicated
civil servants carrying out important missions to secure our
homeland.
DOGE has been dismantling and reshaping DHS for 6 months
now. Has the Republican Majority held a single hearing or
called a single witness to examine these massive changes to the
Department? No, they have not.
More recently, Elon Musk and Donald Trump had a very messy
breakup. Perhaps men are just too fragile and emotional for
these jobs, but I digress. We did, in fact, learn a few things
during this breakup. On June 6, Musk tweeted, ``Time to drop
the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.''
That is the real reason they have not been made public. ``Have
a nice day, DJT.'' Wow. Now that is some inside information.
Elon Musk, Donald Trump's right-hand man, who spent hundreds of
millions of dollars to help get Trump elected, says the
President is tied to the notorious child sex predator. Look
what we are talking about today. Indeed, over the past several
days, Trump has moved to permanently squash the release of the
Epstein files.
Now, my Republican colleagues have long expressed a desire
to fight human trafficking. Woohoo. Talking about it today, but
yet scared to call out to ask the administration to release the
Epstein files. Surely that must be something we can all get
behind. Surely we can all agree that if Elon Musk has evidence
that Donald Trump is or has ever been involved in child sex
trafficking, then Musk should be compelled to come share his
evidence to with this committee and the public.
Now, I am sure some of my colleagues may argue that Musk is
just blowing smoke, but who is to say? Let's find out. I might
have my doubts, but if you think that under oath Musk would
admit he does not actually have any evidence to back up his
claims, then great, let's find out. Let's do some real work on
this committee.
With that, I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentlelady yields back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Ogles from the State of Tennessee
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Ogles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to enter
into the record for unanimous consent a news story by News
Nation, updated on June 7, 2023, by Mr. Ventura and Mr.
Markham, talking about the NGO's using tax dollars to relocate
migrants, and quite frankly----
Mr. Guest. Without objection, the document ** will be
entered into the record.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
** [The information referred to a video rather than a document,
found at the following: https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/us-relies-
heavily-on-nonprofits-to-receive-migrants-morning-in-america/8713310.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Ogles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
When you look at their track record, and there is some
statistics I will quote, and most of this can be directed at
you, Ms. Hopper, but to the other 2 witnesses, feel free to
chime in, we will just have an open dialog, is they were
clearly putting profit over the safety of these children. My
colleagues on the other side have spent most of the day
disrupting this hearing, stalling this hearing with procedural
votes. Meanwhile, we have 325,000 children that are unaccounted
for. We have 65,000 calls of concern that went unanswered. Yet
all they want to talk about is Trump and Elon Musk and some
tweet has since been redacted. I mean, it is nonsense.
By the way, you know, one of my colleagues mentioned
religion, religion, you know, saying that, you know, we over
here are righteous. Yet I do believe if you look at the context
of this hearing, they are the ones that are quoting the Pope
and the Catholic bishops and all the other stuff. Meanwhile, I
want to talk about the children. How do we find these 300,000
kids? How many of them are being sexually abused right now? I
think in your testimony, 70 percent, or one of your
testimonies, 70 percent of the records involving children were
falsified. Eighty percent of the women coming into an El Paso
shelter were sexually assaulted. Where is the outrage on the
other side, folks? That is what this is about.
This should be a nonpartisan committee. We are talking
about the safety of the homeland, talking about 300,000
children that right now could be being raped systematically and
trafficked. They want to talk about the boogeyman. I want to
talk about the boogeyman, too. I want to talk about all the
predators and the gangbangers and the murderers that were
allowed into this country; just in Nashville, the ICE raid
where they arrested murderers, rapists, traffickers, child
traffickers. That is who they are protecting. Let's talk about
these 300,000 kids. How do we find them? How do we undo this
mess?
Oh, by the way, the idea that none of these folks are
criminals, if you came into this country on false pretense,
that is a crime. They are not migrants. They are illegal
immigrants, and they are breaking our laws and I have had
enough of this crap. Let's talk about the facts, the facts
around this hearing and these children.
Ms. Hopper.
Ms. Hopper. There needs to be complete coordination with
the State and local agencies. They know that UACs were sent to
their specific districts, their counties. There's a database on
the ORR website, specifically outlining how many UACs were sent
to certain counties and cities across all 50 States. So, with
the help of the local, State, and Federal agencies, that would
be a good place to start. But a lot of these State agencies are
stonewalling and blocking our efforts because they want to
protect illegal aliens over finding unaccompanied children.
Mr. Ogles. Mr. Howell.
Mr. Howell. One of the best ways to find these children is
to dramatically ramp up worksite enforcement by ICE. A lot of
these kids are working in factory farms, weed farms, all across
the country. Until ICE begins increasing their activities
there, I don't think we will find a lot of these missing kids.
Mr. Ogles. Mr. Rosas.
Mr. Rosas. Congressman, what I'll say, I mean, I'll echo
that, they came here because they wanted to work, obviously in
horrible conditions. What I'll say and what I'll address is
that it's false to say that these raids that are happening are
not targeting the worst of the worst. I was with Border Patrol
in Los Angeles County just recently, and they did an operation
at a Home Depot, and they found a convicted pedophile because
he's there looking for work. Those are the people that they
want to hire to bring them into their homes, around their
families? It doesn't work that way. So I would concur that
worksite operations need to increase, not decrease by any
stretch.
Mr. Ogles. Mr. Chairman, you know, I thank you for the
importance of this hearing, the topic. I thank you to the
witnesses. But as we look at the systematic trafficking that we
have seen across this country, Ms. Hopper, you are an expert on
this, when you look at the distribution networks that the
cartels have into our country, a distribution network, by the
way, that would rival FedEx or, you know, the United Postal
Service, and their ability to move product, and for them,
product is human trafficking. Product is kids and women.
So with that, I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Puerto Rico, Mr.
Hernandez.
Mr. Hernandez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to just briefly raise my voice in favor of
NGO's and the service they provided. As a law student, I worked
with NGO's dedicated to immigrants, but not just to make sure
that they could normalize their immigration status. I worked
with immigrants on behalf of a cause that I think all
Republicans support. I worked with immigrants to help them
assimilate to United States culture and identity. I helped them
study for their U.S. citizenship exams. I could see their hope,
their commitment. I would even say they were more patriotic and
committed to this Nation than many people who are born and
raised here.
I worked with NGO's to help victims of domestic violence
who fled their home countries with their children, fleeing from
terrible, terrible, terrible life circumstances, and people who
found hope and security in this Nation. People that I was proud
to see this Nation welcome to provide them safety and security
and a brighter future. So I really profoundly regret to see
this Congress, to see this committee attack NGO's so broadly
under a false pretext, that this is really to protect the
people. We are attacking people. We are attacking institutions
that help people. I want to make sure that history reflects the
side that we, the Democratic Caucus, this side of the aisle,
stand on today.
Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Crane. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. I am sorry. Who wants to be recognized?
Mr. Crane. Crane from Arizona.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Request to enter into the record from Oversight
Project article, ``Tracking Movement of Illegal Aliens From
NGO's to the U.S. Interior.''
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it shall be admitted into the
record.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Crane. Thank you.
Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. I would like to enter into the record the
statement of Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn, New York, in
which he states, ``From our Catholic faith perspective, the
issue is ultimately about human beings.''
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be entered into the
record.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Guest. With the gentleman yielding, the Chair now
recognizes the gentlelady from South Carolina, Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Chairman Guest. Thank you to our
witnesses for your patience today.
This hearing is important, and I think it is crucial that
we know the role that the NGO's played in the invasion of our
country. While the Biden administration opened the doors, the
NGO's fueled the invasion. They provided or coordinated
transportation to the interior of the country, along with food,
shelter, legal fees, and more, all with your tax dollars.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record this
piece of The Free Press titled ``Nonprofits are Making Billions
Off the Border Crisis.''
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it shall be entered into the
record.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Biggs. So, Global Refuge, one of these Trojan horses,
listed $202 million in revenue in 2022, up from $50 million in
2018, which is 86 percent of that money came directly from the
taxpayers. Another organization, which we have already talked
about today, Endeavor, received 99.6 percent of its revenue
from taxpayers. These groups made profits by forcing us to pay
for the invasion of our own country.
So my first question, and I would really like to leave it
open for any of you to please feel free to comment, but it is
kind-of simple. How many illegals did these bad actors bring
in? How much of our hard-earned tax dollars did they spend? Did
they even attempt to determine if any of the illegals that
flooded our homeland were violent criminals?
Mr. Rosas. Congresswoman, what I'll say is that it's also
not just the unaccompanied monitors that were processed
through. There wasn't DNA testing being done with family units
who were being presented and turning themselves over to Border
Patrol. So there were ``family units'' that these NGO's also
helped and processed. But, you know, you ask any border
official, any border enforcement, they'll tell you that they
rent kids out to act as family units or they're trafficking
these kids as family units.
So I know, understandably, we're talking a lot about the
unaccompanied minors, and that should definitely have a big
focus. But we also can't forget the fake family units that took
advantage of the Biden administration not doing DNA testing to
ensure that those were actual families.
Ms. Hopper. That was a very good question. Thank you so
much for that. Between the ports of entry, it's really hard to
determine how many bad actors and criminal networks came into
the interior of the country during the Biden-Harris
administration. I know it's frustrating to hear that we keep
mentioning the Biden-Harris administration, but when you have
over 300,000 children that went missing under that
administration, it is worth asking because they are still
missing.
With these criminal networks, we worked with another
nonprofit in California. Again, we're not against nonprofits.
We are against the ones that take taxpayer dollars and
mismanage the funds and abuse the funds to reiterate for the
record. But they found numerous cell phones of smugglers. The
Goat Initiative works with local law enforcement and turns over
cell phones that include data as far as how to obtain a child
once you're in the United States, what pathways to take and
even include the nuclear posture of the United States. These
are not, you know, your average construction worker.
When you say they have no criminal background, please
understand that that might be in the United States. You don't
know where they came from, their country of origin, what their
criminal background was in their country of origin, on top of
the fact that when they had their false documents, if their
documents said Mickey Mouse, that is what Border Patrol wrote
down. So how do we know what their backgrounds truly are from
their home countries when we did no meaningful checking of the
false documents that they provided to our agencies?
Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
Mr. Howell. Congresswoman, to answer the heart of your
question, I think it's virtually all of the illegals that were
released into the interior. Just like it's virtually impossible
for an illegal to get to the Southern Border without going
through cartel custody, it is virtually impossible for the
illegals, once they are released, to not reap a direct or
indirect benefit from the nonprofit system. That's why this is
so detestable. They had built a system on parallel with the
cartels. The NGO's and the Biden administration operated as the
final chain in the link of this human smuggling, not only of
children, but of everyone who came illegally.
Mrs. Biggs. Thank you very much. It is very disheartening
and I appreciate your insight on this.
With that, I yield back.
Mr. Guest. The gentlelady yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr.
Carter, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I wholeheartedly support all of my Democratic colleagues'
efforts today to demand information and accountability about
the cruel and profoundly un-American mass deportation agenda
being undertaken by the Donald Trump administration and his
allies, as well as this administration's dereliction of duty in
Federal disaster response amid hurricane season. However, I
would like to take a few moments to highlight a critical
financial issue affecting families and businesses in Louisiana:
flood insurance. Flood risk is not just a coastal issue. It
affects all of us. Since 1996, flood events have occurred in
all 50 States and 99 percent of them in U.S. counties. That
means nearly every single American community has experienced
economic, environmental, or emotional toll of flooding. With
climate change intensifying, the frequency and severity of
major storms, the need for accessible, affordable, and
transparent flood insurance has never been more urgent.
Unfortunately, FEMA's implementation of Risk Rating 2.0, the
new methodology for calculating National Flood Insurance
Program, NFIP, premiums, have created serious affordability
problems for our constituents.
Let me be clear. Congress did not pass legislation to
mandate Risk Rating 2.0, nor did we have any meaningful input
in its development. FEMA claims that this overhaul falls under
its administrative authority. However, FEMA bypassed a formal
rulemaking process, conducted no economic impact analysis, and
declined to brief Congress before the implementing of one of
the most sweeping changes to NFIP in its history. In fact, FEMA
has continuously refused to release its full Risk Rating 2.0
methodology. Policyholders do not have access to their property
level rating factors inputs, except for the few listed on the
declaration page, which are made available only after coverage
is purchased. The lack of transparency is unacceptable.
In my district, the consequences are real and deeply
concerning. Premiums are rising drastically and, in some cases,
unpredictably, exasperating our on-going housing affordability
crisis. Louisiana is not alone in this issue. There are over
1.5 million policy holders in Florida and approximately 700,000
in Texas, among others. On average, Risk Rating 2.0 and NFIP
policies will cost $1,800, representing a 103.6 increase over
legacy rates. There are 17 States with higher average rates
than Louisiana. Rates will increase by over 50 percent in 41
States. Some of the States with the highest average risk rates
include Maine at 183 percent rate increase, West Virginia at
171, Mississippi at 149 percent, Florida at 131, and New York
at 85 percent. Among metropolitan areas, my district in New
Orleans has the second-highest average insurance coverage
behind only Miami.
For working families already struggling to keep up with the
mortgage payments, high insurance costs could mean having to
choose between flood protection and other essential needs. Many
have opted out at NFIP altogether, leaving them and their
entire communities vulnerable and uninsured in the face of
disaster. Within just 2 years of implementing Risk Rating 2.0,
NFIP lost over 215,000 policy holders or nearly 5 percent of
all policies. States that saw the biggest decline in policy
holders were West Virginia, losing nearly 20 percent of
policies, Oklahoma about 18 percent, and Texas with 15 percent
decline. Not far behind over 1 in 10 policyholders in Louisiana
has opted out.
This is not a partisan issue. I have been highly critical
of Risk Rating 2.0 throughout the Biden administration, with
even former Secretary Mayorkas acknowledge that Risk Rating 2.0
is flawed. Yet during both Biden and Trump administrations,
FEMA continued to push forward without correcting course,
listening to Congress, or properly engaging the people most
affected by these changes.
The bottom line is this: we need a flood insurance system
that protects, not penalizes, American families. It should be
grounded in science, equity, and economic reality, but also
accountability and transparency. Congress must have a role in
shaping the future of the NFIP and our constituents deserve to
know how decisions impacting their homes and livelihoods are
made.
Mr. Chair, I would like to enter into the record this
research from the Coalition of Sustainable Flood Insurance,
which lays out details on this issue.
Mr. Guest. Without objection.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carter. As well as a letter from the entire delegation,
Louisiana delegation, bipartisan Republican, Democrat, my dear
friend Mr. Higgins, who is not sitting here now, also signed
off on this letter.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will also be admitted.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Carter. I urge my colleagues to this letter demanding
information on how public mitigation projects have impacted
Louisiana. To date we have not gotten any information.
I urge my colleagues to support the bipartisan, common-
sense legislative efforts that will bring oversight,
affordability, accountability, fairness back to the National
Flood Insurance Program because flood insurance isn't something
that we should wait. However, we need to do this now.
Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6), rule XI, I move
that the committee subpoena Elizabeth Ashley, assistant
administrator of the Federal Insurance Directorate of FEMA to
provide this committee with the details agencies have been
withholding from Congress.
Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
Mr. Evans. There is a motion. Move to table.
Mr. Guest. Motion to table. The gentleman moves to table.
The motion to table is privileged and nondebatable. We will
allow a few moments for Members to return to the committee
room. As the room, let the record reflect, is very vacant at
this point, so we will suspend momentarily for that to take
place.
There has been a motion to table in this matter brought
forth by Mr. Evans. The motion is privileged. It is
nondebatable.
All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.
All those opposed, please signify by saying no.
In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. Is there a
motion?
Mr. Thompson. Motion to have a recorded vote.
Mr. Guest. Motion for a recorded vote has been requested by
the Ranking Member.
If the Clerk would please call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Pfluger.
Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
My apologies. Mr. Pfluger, is that aye? Yes, sir.
Mr. Garbarino.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
Mr. Crane.
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Ogles.
Mr. Ogles. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Nay.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
Mr. Swalwell. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner.
Mr. Magaziner. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
Mr. Goldman.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
Mr. Hernandez. No.
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to be
recorded?
Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
The Clerk. The Chairman has not yet been recorded.
Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. You will please report the totals.
The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 12 ayes
and 8 noes.
Mr. Guest. In the opinion of the Chair, based on the
recorded vote, the motion passes and the request has been
tabled.
Mr. Carter, did you yield back? I was trying to think, have
you yielded the rest of your time? I believe, if I'm not
mistaken.
All right. At this time then, the Chair would recognize Mr.
Evans for 5 minutes for his questioning.
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, of course, to
the witnesses for coming.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record this
committee's report from last year in which then-CBP chief
patrol agents told the committee that ``NGO's will facilitate
the migrant's travel plans to wherever that's going to be while
they wait for their immigration hearing.'' And ``Once they're
released from our custody, the NGO's then provide them with
potentially transportation up to the Phoenix area or other
areas of the interior to help them make travel arrangements,
things like that.''
Mr. Guest. Without objection, the document will be entered
into the record.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also for the record, a
statement by now-CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott in this same
report in which he says that cartels and NGO's actually coach
would-be border crossers on claiming asylum after being
apprehended by the Border Patrol.
Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be entered into the
record.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
For everybody that stuck with us through today, I think it
has been extremely clear that certain NGO's have benefited
significantly from the Biden administration's open-border
policies to the point where they actually found migrants before
they reached the border to encourage them to illegally enter
the United States in return for all of the amnesty and other
benefits they could obtain, more benefits, in fact, than many
American citizens receive, including free cell phones and
upscale hotel stays.
Mr. Howell, first question will be to you. Your
organization's in-depth study tracked devices given to illegal
immigrants by border NGO's and showed, unsurprisingly, that my
part of the world, Denver, Colorado, and the surrounding areas
was one of their more popular final destinations. The sanctuary
State policies in Colorado and Denver have allowed NGO's and
Government entities to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to
provide services to illegal immigrants and have proliferated
crime in our area, making Colorado this year the second-most
dangerous State in the country. When the Biden admin and
Democrats in Colorado reimburse NGO's to provide these services
and benefits, how does that incentivize illegal immigration and
encourage criminal enterprises to conduct business in the
United States and in places like Denver and Colorado?
Mr. Howell. Simply put, if you build it, they will come. It
is a completely cost-free for the illegal alien transportation
and funding stream with everything they could ever need or
want, things beyond what are even applied or given to our poor
and needy in the United States. It also takes a lot of pressure
off the cartels and makes it much easier for them to sell in
the first instance for an illegal to come to the border in the
first place. Don't take my word for it, look how the border is
secured now. People aren't even trying to come because they
know these benefits aren't available to them even in the event
they're able to get in.
Mr. Evans. Thank you. Ms. Hopper, next question will be to
you. I was a cop and a soldier for about 22 years combined and
I am Latino. Unfortunately, I know through those experiences
and others exactly how bad the crime situation is in Colorado.
We are the national headquarters for Tren de Aragua, which I
think we all know now. Violent Venezuelan prison gang that does
a lot of bad things to include human trafficking.
You have substantial experience in the dangers that
unaccompanied minors face on their journey to the border and
then once released into the United States. Currently, the
Federal Government is trying to review sponsors in Colorado. We
have heard earlier today over 300,000 kids that we are trying
to track down. The Federal Government has reached out to
Colorado to try to see if these kids that may be in Colorado
are in safe environments. However, State laws in Colorado that
my Governor has signed more than once are preventing the
release of this basic information to Federal investigators and
obstructing the ability to do just basic safety checks.
How do State policies that restrict Federal oversight of
unaccompanied minors and NGO's that fail to properly screen
these sponsors enable cartels like Tren de Aragua and MS-13 to
exploit or recruit children in the United States and then,
again, specifically in sanctuary jurisdictions like Colorado?
Ms. Hopper. It absolutely encourages cartels and criminal
networks to direct their activity to sanctuary cities and
States, knowing that those protections will exist for them and
knowing that there isn't that cooperation and Federal oversight
and accountability for that. So, unfortunately, I don't know
what the motivation is for your State's Governor, and I'm sorry
for that because of the fact that that isn't helping these
children, that isn't helping the citizens of Colorado, that
isn't helping your constituents when you're protecting illegal
aliens over that of those that elected you.
Mr. Evans. Thank you. I got 4 seconds, Chairman. Yield
back.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr.
Green.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I am concerned about children. I am concerned
about the 37 children who have lost their lives to the
Guadalupe River in Texas. I am concerned that we are not having
a hearing to address the needs of these families. These are
people who had their children at a summer camp. They expected
to pick their children up. They didn't expect to see their
children waste away. Many of them haven't been found.
I am concerned about children, too, but I am concerned
about all children. I don't segregate children. I don't
conclude that some children have lives that are worth more than
others. I want to see something done about those children. Why
aren't we having a hearing to deal with the needs of the people
of the State of Texas and other States, too, that may have
similar needs? I don't segregate. I integrate children. Let's
do something about all children.
To proclaim this hearing to be one that is related to
charities, I am going to defend Catholic Charities. I don't
believe you think that Catholic Charities would have 65,000
children mistreated. I just don't believe you think that. I
don't think so. Catholic Charities does an outstanding job. I
would love to think that we could resolve all of these things
today, but apparently we cannot. Let me go to something that I
think would be relevant for this hearing as it relates to the
State of Texas.
This, my friends, is a picture of Mr. David Richardson,
missing. Have you seen the acting FEMA administrator? Where is
he? Why is he not here to help us understand what is happening
to those children in Texas, to explain to those parents why
FEMA has been feckless and ineffective? I have intelligence in
my hand indicating that an internal FEMA assessment ordered by
David Richardson, the current senior official performing the
duties of FEMA administrator, dated May 12, 2025, paint a dire
and deeply troubling picture. According to these internal
reviews, FEMA is fundamentally unprepared to respond to
national emergencies due to severe workforce reductions. Hello?
Workforce reductions, terminated contracts, and systemic
management under the current Trump administration.
I care about all children. I want to help resolve any
issues that we have with children. I don't want to see us
decide that we can't have a hearing to deal with this man who
is missing in action. Let me have this, please. Missing in
action. Missing at a time when he ought to be on the ground in
the State of Texas. Where is he? Why aren't we subpoenaing him?
Why don't we get him here? Well, let's find out if we really
are serious about children. Let's find out if we can get him
here.
Mr. Chairman, given that the Secretary won't appear and
can't be subpoenaed because you have already taken that issue
up, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move that the
committee subpoena David Richardson, senior official performing
the duties of FEMA administrator. I want to see where you
stand. Why can't we have him here? Why can't he come in and
talk? You have these 3 witnesses here to talk about the other
children. Good. Let's get him here. I so move, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman's time has expired. Is there a
motion?
Mr. Gimenez. Move to table.
Mr. Guest. Motion to table. All those in favor of the
motion to table, and before we call the motion, the motion is
nondebatable and is privileged.
So all those in favor of the motion to table, please
signify by saying aye.
Any opposed, no.
Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Guest. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it.
Yes, sir, Mr. Green.
Mr. Green. Green of Texas would have this committee go on
record explaining why.
Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested.
Mr. Clerk, you will please call the roll.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
Mr. Gimenez. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes no.
Mr. Pfluger.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
Mr. Strong.
Mr. Strong. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
Mr. Brecheen.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Crane.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Ogles.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs.
Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
Mr. Evans.
Mr. Evans. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
Mr. Knott.
Mr. Knott. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
Ranking Member Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Nay.
The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
Mr. Swalwell.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
Mr. Thanedar.
Mr. Thanedar. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
Mr. Magaziner.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
Mr. Kennedy. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
Mrs. McIver.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
[No response.]
The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. No.
The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
Mr. Green of Texas.
Mr. Green. On behalf of the 37 children who have lost their
lives, Green votes nay.
The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
Mr. Guest. Do any Members wish to change their vote?
Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I wish to change my vote to yes.
The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who have not yet
been recorded that wish to vote?
Mr. Crane. Aye.
The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
Mr. Guest. The Clerk will please report the total.
The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 9 ayes and
6 nays.
Mr. Guest. The motion to table passes, and the gentleman's
request for subpoena will not be taken up.
The gentleman has yielded.
At this time, the Chair would recognize a gentleman from
the great State of Pennsylvania, Mr. Mackenzie.
Mr. Mackenzie. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is truly an
honor to be a Member of the Homeland Security Committee, where
we deal with so many important issues on a daily basis. The
breadth of the topics that we are faced with, dealing with, and
discussing is quite extensive. I look forward to continuing the
work of this committee on a wide range of issues, some of them
raised here today as we move forward.
But the topic at hand is the failings of the Biden
administration and how NGO's facilitated the Biden border
crisis, where millions of people entered our country illegally
during those 4 years. Within that, there was a subset of
children. Three hundred thousand children were not effectively
monitored and their whereabouts were sometimes unknown. That
was questioned by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle,
and fact checks were done on that.
What did the fact checks come back with? They said, well,
you know, the 300,000, it wasn't that they were effectively
monitored, but there were just 32,000 who didn't show up for a
court case. So they were at a greater risk of sex trafficking,
exploitation, or forced labor. Thirty-two thousand children who
are left vulnerable. My colleagues on the other side of the
aisle don't want to ask a single question about that? They
don't want to talk about that topic. They want to sweep it
under the rug. They want to turn a blind eye. They want to
pretend that it didn't happen during the Biden administration
because it is politically inconvenient.
The welfare of children is something that they don't want
to talk about all of a sudden because it happened under a
Democratic administration. We have documented cases of rape of
children, children working in extremely dangerous conditions.
Those unaccompanied minors, when they went to do welfare checks
on them, they are unaccounted for, simply gone. But they don't
want to ask any questions about that. They don't want to talk
about it.
So we have a responsibility as the adults in the room to
govern, to do oversight, to do these questions that come before
this committee to make sure every American is safe. As a State
representative, I contacted the Biden administration about this
very issue. They didn't respond. I contacted our Democratic
Governor, he didn't respond. Nobody wants to talk about this
issue of missing children in our country. So I am glad we are
having this hearing today because we need to get some answers.
So my first question is for Mr. Howell. I want to
understand the flow of money, what appropriation, what line
item it was in, where it went to DHS, and how it moved to
either States to facilitate the movement of these children or
to NGO's.
Mr. Howell. So for the DHS money, most of it went out
through FEMA and the SSP program, which was renamed about
halfway through the Biden administration. It used to be called
something else, but there would be a series of grant-making
exercises. A lot of them are publicly posted on-line where you
can see the main organizations that received it. After that
there are subgrants and other things. It's very difficult to
follow the money all the way from Federal Government to end
recipient, let alone the usage.
Mr. Mackenzie. So it went through FEMA, which is intended
for emergency management in situations like we faced in Texas
and was just talked about, but the money was gone. It was used
for these programs, you are telling me.
Mr. Howell. That's absolutely correct. They begged for more
time and time again.
Mr. Mackenzie. Simply astonishing that the money would be
used in that way and not for the safety of the American public
in emergency situations.
The next question I have is for Ms. Hopper. Who is supposed
to have the accountability and responsibility for the well-
being of the children? When they move from one agency to the
other, does the accountability and responsibility hand off to
the next organization or is it Homeland Security, since they
did the initial intake, they are the ones who should be held
ultimately accountable?
Ms. Hopper. It's a very good question. A lot of these
agencies are pointing fingers at each other. Without a clear
established person or group or agency that's responsible, you
had Border Patrol that had 48 hours to move these children,
these men, these women through. Then they went to HHS, which,
depending on the situation, would outsource that responsibility
to NGO's. So without that clear oversight on who was
responsible, it really makes it challenging to hold people
accountable.
But at the end of the day, I would look to whoever is
issuing the grant. There is a scope, there are deliverables,
there is requirements that need to be met. So the grant issuer
is responsible for managing that contract to make sure
everything is being met before issuing more moneys.
Mr. Mackenzie. I appreciate that. I see my time is expiring
and so I would just like to say that this should just be the
start of the conversation about what we can do to protect
children in this country. Whether it is more accountability
that needs to be done at the Homeland Security and officials
who were in the Biden administration that let this happen, on
worksite enforcement where children are being employed in
dangerous, violent situations. Also what we can do to stop
anything like this from ever happening again by securing our
border and having ultimate accountability throughout the entire
chain of custody of these children. I just can't thank you
enough for being here today. It is an important topic and we
are going to continue to do oversight as we move forward. Thank
you.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
The Chairman recognizes the gentlelady from Arizona, Ms.
Ansari.
Ms. Ansari. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate
the opportunity to waive on to the Homeland Security Committee
today to speak on an issue that is critically important to my
district in Arizona.
I represent one of the most diverse districts in the entire
country where more than 64 languages are spoken. First of all,
I want to emphasize how vital and life-saving the work of
NGO's, like Catholic Charities, like the International Rescue
Committee and like Lutheran Social Services has been to
constituents in my district. They work day-in and day-out with
very little resources to serve people.
The Trump administration's mass deportation policy has
demonstrably failed our Nation and our values. According to a
recent Gallup poll, a 62 percent margin of folks disapprove of
the Trump administration's ineffective, authoritarian, and
inhumane immigration policies. I have seen the cruel policies
of this administration first-hand in my district. Separating
families, masked ICE agents showing up to immigration courts in
downtown Phoenix where people had appointments ripping people
away from their families. Detainees in inhumane conditions.
This includes DACA recipients. This includes green card
holders. This includes U.S. citizens. Deporting innocent people
without due process to foreign prisons. It is unconscionable.
About 1 month ago, I went to the Eloy detention facility
about an hour outside of my district in Phoenix. I spoke with
more than a dozen women there who were desperate, devastated
about the conditions that they are living in, facing
significant harassment. They described a situation where one of
the staff members literally forced them outside to march
outside in 110-degree Arizona heat, marching around for over 2
hours, yelling at them, ``This is the price of the American
Dream.''
This is disgusting. When we are talking about well-being of
citizens. Even if you believe that these people should not be
in the United States, it is embarrassing that our country would
be treating any human being like that.
So, Mr. Howell, I have a couple of questions for you. Very
straightforward, yes or no. Do you support this type of
treatment of human beings?
Mr. Howell. I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. All the other
Democrats haven't asked a question, so I kind-of wasn't paying
attention. Can you restate it?
Ms. Ansari. OK. The detention center facility conditions in
this country are atrocious. Women are being harassed, they are
being dehumanized. In Arizona, they were forced to march
outside in 120-degree heat until somebody fainted. I have
visited these detention centers as part of my oversight
responsibilities. I know you are a big fan of oversight. Do you
think that is acceptable treatment of human beings by the
United States of America?
Mr. Howell. For illegal aliens to be detained throughout
their immigration proceedings? Yes, I think it's the law----
Ms. Ansari. To be treated like way. To be treated like
that.
Mr. Howell. I'm not taking your word for it.
Ms. Ansari. OK. On top of that, 17 million Americans were
just cut off of health care thanks to the vote of all of the
Republican colleagues over here. Meanwhile, Republicans just
gave more money to ICE and DHS to the tune of $170 billion. It
is now one of the largest funded agencies in the world, about
16th or 17th in terms of what a military would look like for
other countries. Again, you talked about the importance of
oversight, Mr. Howell. Do you believe that Members of Congress
are legally allowed to conduct oversight of ICE detention
facilities?
Mr. Howell. As we've written extensively, the Oversight
Project, because we're trying to help keep your colleagues out
of jail, like Representative McIver, who was indicted. I
misspoke when I said she was arrested. You, as an individual
Member, do not have oversight authority. Oversight authority by
the rules of the House flows through the full House to the
Chairman, and that right now is held by the Majority. So
despite the statute----
Ms. Ansari. It is legally allowed----
Mr. Howell [continuing]. That you cite, it's going to end
up with more Democrats clogging your jails.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, reclaiming my time.
Mr. Howell. I want to keep you out of jail.
Ms. Ansari. Reclaiming my time. Thank you. It is actually
legal for Members of Congress to go to detention center
facilities that are operated by our Government and to conduct
oversight. That actually is legally allowed.
Mr. Howell. That is incorrect.
Ms. Ansari. We also know that the Trump administration is
funneling billions and billions of dollars to private for-
profit prisons. I heard today a number of 6 billion to NGO's
that you all are so concerned about. The private prison
companies in this country, like CoreCivic and GEO Group, are
making billions of dollars in profits because of the massive,
you know, and stunning corruption. They gave billions of
dollars to elect Donald Trump. Now we are making sure that they
make billions of dollars.
Speaking of sheer corruption and cover-ups for the ultra
wealthy, Mr. Howell, I know you have spent quite a lot of time
talking about the importance of releasing the Epstein files,
but now you are kind-of parroting Trump talking points about
this being a Democratic hoax. I am wondering if, yes or no----
Mr. Howell. What did I say?
Ms. Ansari [continuing]. Do you support the----
Mr. Howell. Now, what have I parroted?
Ms. Ansari. Do you support----
Mr. Howell. About it being a hoax?
Ms. Ansari. It is a simple yes or no. Do you support----
Mr. Howell. No, it's not. You said something false. I'm
asking you to cite what you said, which is clearly false
because I've not said what you said.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, my question is do you support the
public release of the Epstein files?
Mr. Howell. My answer is written in the op-ed in the Blaze,
which you can read.
Ms. Ansari. Yes or no? Yes or no?
Mr. Howell. Listen, ma'am, I am trying to answer your
question.
Ms. Ansari. It is a yes or no.
Mr. Howell. You are lying to the American people.
Ms. Ansari. I'm asking you a question.
Mr. Howell. In your misstatements, you just told a lie in
this committee room.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell----
Mr. Howell. I'm trying to clear up the record.
Ms. Ansari [continuing]. It is very simple.
Mr. Howell. I am trying to answer if you let me speak.
Ms. Ansari. OK. Do you support it?
Mr. Howell. I think the public deserves way more
transparency than we've got. I've written that. You've accused
me of parroting another talking point----
Ms. Ansari. It would be wonderful to know that.
Mr. Howell [continuing]. Which I have not. Bring the
receipts. You're lying and everybody knows it.
Mr. Guest. The gentleman will suspend.
Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, I am just asking you a question.
Mr. Guest. The gentlelady's time has----
Ms. Ansari. It is a yes or no question.
Mr. Guest. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The Chair will now recognize Mr. Knott for 5 minutes of
questioning.
Mr. Knott. Mr. Chairman, it is good to be here. Thank you
for having this hearing. To the witnesses, I would say thank
you. I think I owe you another thank you. This has been quite a
long hearing.
Unfortunately, the Democrats have obstructed, they have
distracted, and they have refused to engage in this topic
because it shows that their narrative that they have authored
is false. That what happened at the border was just perfectly
in line with the norm. It was beneficial to the country. There
was nothing they could do about it. Whatever. Whatever
narrative they have written, it is false.
This was a designed, intentional, and protected endeavor to
bring millions of people into this country regardless of the
consequences. It was designed by the Biden-Harris
administration. The Democrats on this committee are still
defending it. It is just astounding. They will not say this
hurts the American people. Unchecked illegal immigration hurts
the American people. We could go on and on. I want to give you
all some time to talk.
Mr. Howell, starting with you. One of our esteemed
colleagues on the other side declared that what happened at the
Biden border was not politically motivated. It was all charity.
Do you agree with that statement?
Mr. Howell. Absolutely not. It was a highly coordinated
plan executed by some of the most radical elements of this
country for the sole purposes of ushering in a massive border
crisis, which caused tremendous damage and is still being
defended to this day.
Mr. Knott. Does that affect the electoral count or
Congressional apportionment?
Mr. Howell. Absolutely. It affects the Census.
Mr. Knott. Do you think that that is lost on Democratic
Governors, Senators, and Congressmen, and the Biden-Harris
administration?
Mr. Howell. It is absolutely not.
Mr. Knott. Was there a plan to send them to politically-
sensitive States?
Mr. Howell. I think they sent them everywhere. But the
highest concentrations are the urban areas, which are clearly a
benefit to the Democrats.
Mr. Knott. Was there evidence that these individuals here
illegally were coached on how to register to vote, where to go,
what to say, how to evade capture from immigration officials?
Mr. Howell. Correct. It's happening still today with these
nonprofits coaching them on how to evade. As for the voting, as
the country's voting system became a laughingstock with the
mass mail-in ballots, we have evidence from the Biden White
House of a listening session they held with these radical
activists where they were encouraging the Biden White House not
to even ask people if they were citizens before trying to
register them to vote.
Mr. Knott. It is worth noting that the Democratic Party is
staunchly and uniformly against voter ID, no matter what State
has been proposed. Just a random thought.
Ms. Hopper, what interest do international parties have in
sending millions of people to this country illegally, including
children?
Ms. Hopper. Particularly the countries that we have
visited, a lot of the individuals that are leaving are
criminals in their home countries. So their governments, their
country's government have no interest in retaining them. You
are having the worst of the worst leave your country. You are
having a decrease in crime because the worst of the worst are
leaving your country.
Mr. Knott. Is there also financial incentives? Are they not
sending money out of this country back to their home countries?
Ms. Hopper. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. They make money in
this country.
Mr. Knott. So they are getting rid of criminals and then
they are taking home money.
Ms. Hopper. Exactly.
Mr. Knott. Amazing. You mentioned earlier, I am sorry for
being quick, there was one person at this call center for
abused children, 65,000 unanswered phone calls. Let's back up
before they even got here. How many people were in charge of
vetting the millions of people that came across the border?
Ms. Hopper. I would----
Mr. Knott. Vetting is being used as though it happened.
Vetting did not happen, did it?
Ms. Hopper. Not in a meaningful way, no.
Mr. Knott. It was a process. They were processed into the
country.
Ms. Hopper. Supposedly and not in a consistent way.
Mr. Knott. Right. Now, I have got one more question, Mr.
Rosas, and I want to give you a chance to respond to Mr. Green.
He looked right at you and said he didn't believe that you
really thought that children were mistreated by a charity with
the name Catholic in it. I want to make a distinction. It was
not an extension of the Catholic Church. This was a uniformly
named charity with the word Catholic in it. But I want to give
you a chance to respond.
Mr. Rosas. Well, yes, because the reason why that was just
a weird thing to say is because the people at the border, they
know how these things work. Right. This isn't new. So these
NGO's, not just Catholic Charities, a whole bunch of them, they
knew that the vetting wasn't done, that this was being done
haphazardly because of the volume. Right. The volume
overwhelmed the system. So there are shortcuts that need to be
taken.
Mr. Knott. By design.
Mr. Rosas. By design, exactly. So they still took the money
to do that. They knew that these children were being abused
before they arrived at the border. That it was probably going
to happen after they, you know, got to their final destination,
whether it was a workplace or sexual abuse. They still took the
money because it was taxpayer dollars and they increased their
pockets.
So it's very frustrating because I've seen children as
young as 7 crossing by themselves. I saw a girl hold a 2-year-
old, just them. So, you know, he doesn't know me. A lot has
been said about our credibility, but I've been there and I've
seen it, and this was a big problem.
Mr. Knott. Yep. Well, I'll close with this. Again, this was
the biggest problem that I have seen in my lifetime and it is
going to take decades to fix. It is astounding that the
Democratic Party not only built it, not only implemented it,
but they are still defending it. The American people need to
know that if they get back in power, those open-border policies
and the flood of mass migration will return. We cannot let that
happen.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Knott.
With consultation with the Ranking Member, there are no
closing statements in this matter. I would like to thank our
witnesses for being with us today and would like to remind our
witnesses that Members of the committee may have additional
questions for you. We would ask the witnesses to respond to
these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule VII(E), the
hearing record will be held open for a period of 10 days.
Without objection, this committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:28 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X I
----------
Exhibits to Prepared Statement of Alicia Hopper
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
A P P E N D I X I I
----------
ROLL CALL VOTES
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[all]