    [House Hearing, 119 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                    AN INSIDE JOB: HOW NGO'S FACILITATED THE
                               BIDEN BORDER CRISIS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                         COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION
                                   __________

                                 JULY 16, 2025
                                   __________

                               Serial No. 119-23
                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security

                   [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   __________

                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    61-406                    WASHINGTON : 2026

                         COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                     Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
    Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Vice       Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi,
      Chair                                Ranking Member
    Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Eric Swalwell, California
    Michael Guest, Mississippi           J. Luis Correa, California
    Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           Shri Thanedar, Michigan
    August Pfluger, Texas                Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
    Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Daniel S. Goldman, New York
    Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
    Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
    Morgan Luttrell, Texas               LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
    Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Julie Johnson, Texas, Vice Ranking
    Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma                Member
    Elijah Crane, Arizona                Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
    Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              Nellie Pou, New Jersey
    Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
    Gabe Evans, Colorado                 Al Green, Texas
    Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania         Vacancy
    Brad Knott, North Carolina
                        Eric Heighberger, Staff Director
                      Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                           Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   Statements

    Honorable Michael Guest, a Representative in Congress From the
      State of Mississippi:
      Oral Statement.................................................     1
      Prepared Statement.............................................     4
    Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From
      the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on
      Homeland Security:
      Oral Statement.................................................     5
      Prepared Statement.............................................    13

                                   Witnesses

    Mr. Michael Howell, Director, Oversight Project, The Heritage
      Foundation:
      Oral Statement.................................................    15
      Prepared Statement.............................................    19
    Ms. Alicia Hopper, President and Founder, GUARD Against
      Trafficking:
      Oral Statement.................................................    22
      Prepared Statement.............................................    23
    Mr. Julio Rosas, Private Citizen:
      Oral Statement.................................................    26
      Prepared Statement.............................................    28

                                 For the Record

    Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress From
      the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on
      Homeland Security:
      Letter, July 16, 2025..........................................     7
      Statement of Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio..........................    89
    Honorable Timothy M. Kennedy, a Representative in Congress From
      the State of New York:
      Press Release, June 11, 2025...................................    40
      Letter From Pope Francis, February 10, 2025....................    76
      Op Ed, Newsweek, July 11, 2025.................................    78
    Honorable Daniel S. Goldman, a Representative in Congress From
      the State of New York:
      Post, Truth Social, July 16, 2025..............................    53
    Honorable Elijah Crane, a Representative in Congress From the
      State of Arizona:
      Article, Oversight Project.....................................    86
    Honorable Sheri Biggs, a Representative in Congress From the
      State of South Carolina:
      Article, The Free Press........................................    92
    Honorable Troy A. Carter, a Representative in Congress From the
      State of Louisiana:
      Report, The Coalition for Sustainable Flood Insurance..........   104
      Letter, August 4, 2022.........................................   154
    Honorable Gabe Evans, a Representative in Congress From the State
      of Colorado:
      Report excerpt.................................................   158
      Report excerpt.................................................   159

                                   Appendix I

    Exhibits to Prepared Statement of Alicia Hopper..................   171

                                  Appendix II

    Roll Call Votes..................................................   301

                     AN INSIDE JOB: HOW NGO'S FACILITATED
                            THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS

                                  ----------

                            Wednesday, July 16, 2025

                 U.S. House of Representatives,
                        Committee on Homeland Security,
                                                Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in
    room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Michael Guest
    [Member of the committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Guest, Green, McCaul, Higgins,
    Gimenez, Pfluger, Garbarino, Gonzales, Luttrell, Strong,
    Brecheen, Crane, Ogles, Biggs, Evans, Mackenzie, Knott,
    Thompson, Swalwell, Correa, Thanedar, Magaziner, Goldman,
    Ramirez, Kennedy, McIver, Johnson, Hernandez, and Pou.
        Mr. Guest [presiding]. The Committee on Homeland Security
    will come to order. Without objection, the Chair may declare
    the committee in recess at any point.
        Before we begin, I want to start off by expressing the
    condolences of this committee to the people of the great State
    of Texas, who have been devastated by recent tragic flooding. I
    know this hits especially hard to the home of several of our
    colleagues who call Texas home. Our thoughts and our prayers
    are with the victims of this flooding and their families. We
    are grateful for the courageous efforts of the Coast Guard,
    CBP, and many other first responders and volunteers who have
    placed themselves in harm's way to rescue those caught in the
    flooding. These American heroes, like Coast Guard swimmer Scott
    Ruskan, saved countless lives through their bravery and they
    deserve our Nation's gratitude and honor. This committee will
    continue to do everything we can to ensure the victims receive
    the assistance they need and that the Federal agencies are
    prepared to help in times of trouble.
        The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the role that
    taxpayer-supported nongovernmental agencies played in
    facilitating the border crisis under the Biden-Harris
    administration. I now recognize myself for a brief opening
    statement.
        For 4 years, the Biden-Harris administration created the
    worst border crisis in American history. From Day 1, Biden-
    Harris and the Department of Homeland Security Secretary
    Alejandro Mayorkas implemented a policy of mass catch and
    release, dismantling effective border policies, and gutted
    interior enforcement. As a result, roughly 13 million
    inadmissible aliens were either encountered at our border or
    entered as gotaways.
        The consequences of these acts have been devastating.
    Thousands of Americans were lost to fentanyl poisoning. Gang
    members wreaked havoc in local communities. Young women like
    Laken Riley, Joycelyn Nungaray, and Rachel Morin were raped,
    abused, and murdered at the hands of illegal aliens.
        This committee led the way by impeaching Secretary Mayorkas
    for his willful and systematic refusal to enforce longstanding
    immigration law, laws passed and amended over the years by
    bipartisan majorities in Congress. The American people also
    emphatically rejected the open-border policies at the ballot
    box last November.
        What is not known by many and what will be highlighted
    today at this hearing is that the Biden-Harris administration
    could not have executed an open-door border policy on its own.
    They needed help. That help came from nongovernmental agencies
    funded by the Federal Government. These groups that received
    billions in taxpayer funding would prove instrumental in
    helping the Biden-Harris administration process and release a
    historic number of illegal aliens into our country.
        Under a DHS program called the Emergency Food and Shelter
    Humanitarian Program, EFSHP, which later became the Shelter and
    Service Program, FEMA provided grants to numerous NGO's, many
    of whom were operating at the Southwest Border. These groups
    spent billions of taxpayers' dollars given to them by the
    Biden-Harris administration to provide all types of benefits to
    illegal aliens, those individuals who were recently released
    from DHS custody. Our taxpayer dollars were spent on purchasing
    tens of thousands of nights in hotel rooms for illegal aliens
    instead of using existing ICE detention facilities to house
    those detained individuals. The Biden-Harris administration
    sent taxpayer dollars to NGO's to put them in hotels at the
    cost, again, of hundreds of thousands of dollars over the
    course of those contracts, in many cases without any ICE
    supervision.
        Even worse, our taxpayer dollars were used to form the
    final link in the cartels' human smuggling operation, paying to
    help illegal aliens travel to their preferred destinations:
    Chicago, New York, Miami, Los Angeles, or other destinations of
    choice. Jason Owens, then the chief of the Border Patrol Del
    Rio sector, told the committee in an official interview, ICE
    would then turn over illegal aliens over to NGO's for them to
    travel to wherever they were going to go while awaiting their
    hearing. Recent studies have shown that illegal aliens who
    passed through the doors of these NGO's at the border ended up
    in effectively every Congressional district across the country.
        Many of the NGO's served as a launching pad for mass
    illegal immigration. The abuse was so widespread that even the
    Biden-Harris administration, the NGO's themselves, couldn't
    deny it was happening in June 2022, when DHS officials said
    that the Department will continue to closely coordinate with
    and support NGO's to facilitate the movement of any individual
    encountered at the Southwest Border. John Martin with the
    Opportunity Center for the Homelessness and NGO in El Paso,
    said that his organization works with illegal aliens to,
    ``facilitate travel to destinations of their choice.'' These
    actions appear to many on the committee to constitute a
    violation of Section 274 of the Immigration and Nationalization
    Act, which prohibits any individual from encouraging or
    inducing someone to enter the country unlawfully or helping
    transport them to the interior.
        Corruption and waste were rampant in the spending by the
    NGO's. Under the Biden-Harris administration, DHS's top
    watchdog audited millions of dollars that had gone to local
    grant recipients over a 6-month period in 2021. They found that
    a lack of documentation kept them from determining how more
    than half the money had been spent. In some cases, they
    discovered that funds had been used to pay for benefits for
    individuals who were legally inadmissible to receive them.
        The Biden border crisis proved to be a profitable business
    for some NGO's. According to the Free Press, 3 large NGO's
    involved in handling unaccompanied alien children; the Global
    Refuge, who received 85 percent of its revenue from
    Governmental grants; Endeavors, who received 97 percent of
    their revenue from Governmental grants; and Southwest Keys
    program, who received an astonishing 99 percent of its revenue
    from the Federal Government. These 3 groups saw their combined
    revenue grow to an astonishing $2 billion-plus by 2022.
        I would argue that these groups had a vested interest in
    prolonging the crisis when NGO Southwest Key Properties used
    the increase in Government funding to raise salaries of
    officers and officials across the board, including according to
    recent media reporting, an increase of over $675,000 increase
    to their CEO. Many NGO's tried to mislead the public in how
    these funds were being allocated. This was documented by a
    recent Florida grand jury investigation that just said that--in
    that investigation the grand jury said that they were actively
    obstructed. They were obstructed from determining how these
    Federal dollars were spent. The grand jury also noted that some
    NGO's received the vast majority of their Federal funding from
    grants or the vast majority of their funding from Federal
    grants. Pretty interesting for groups that like to call
    themselves nongovernmental organizations.
        The American people are tired of being told that we should
    fund the actions of lawbreakers. They are tired of groups
    encouraging people to cross the border illegally and
    organizations that facilitate the release of illegal aliens
    into the interior. When would-be border crossers know that they
    receive a host of benefits that await them immediately after
    crossing the border, they are more likely to make the deadly
    and dangerous journey. That is exactly what happened on the
    Biden-Harris watch as millions of vulnerable people put
    themselves in harm's way at the hands of cartels and smuggling
    groups.
        An untold number perished along the route. Tens of
    thousands or more suffered physical and sexual abuse on the
    way. Many are still trapped today, paying off their cartel debt
    through forced labor or working in the sex trade.
        We can and should look for ways to care for the vulnerable
    and less fortunate. But using taxpayer dollars to undermine our
    laws and the well-being of Americans and migrants alike is not
    the way to do it. We cannot let taxpayer dollars be used to
    facilitate law-breaking. We must shine a light on this
    disgraceful step as we begin to hold these organizations
    accountable. This cannot on our watch ever be allowed to happen
    again.
        [The statement of Mr. Guest follows:]
                        Statement of Hon. Michael Guest
        This afternoon, our hearing will provide a critical opportunity to
    investigate how the Biden-Harris administration systematically weakened
    our national border security and at the same time, intentionally
    facilitated the influx of millions of inadmissible aliens in the United
    States through the unlawful use of mass parole.
        As Members of the Legislative branch, it is our duty to determine
    how and why the Biden-Harris administration abused this authority to
    grant parole meant to be applied only on a case-by-case basis for
    urgent humanitarian reads or significant public benefit to justify the
    mass release of between 2 and 3 million inadmissible aliens into our
    country.
        However, the Biden-Harris mass parole programs, though stopped by
    the Trump administration, continued to impose significant financial
    costs on the American public and generate increased public safety
    threats. During his time in office, former President Biden's open
    policies incentivized illegal immigration, signaling to the world that
    our borders were open. In response, people from around the world
    flooded across our borders and overran our communities. This resulted
    in historic never-before-seen apprehension numbers.
        To combat the bad optics of the growing border crisis and to try to
    cover up the true scale of illegal immigrants entering the United
    States, the Biden-Harris administration created multiple mass parole
    programs to hide the truth from the American people and to quickly
    release individuals into the interior. These programs were deliberately
    designed to conceal and downplay the true scope of our border crisis.
        One of the ways the former administration misled the public was
    through the conversion of a little-known program originally designed to
    schedule cargo inspections into the one of the most abused programs in
    our Nation's history. The CBP One app was used in a manner never
    authorized by Congress to create a fast-track pathway for parole into
    the interior of the country. The implementation of the CBP One mass
    parole program resulted in nearly 1 million illegal aliens entering
    this country.
        This committee found that the individuals who applied for entry
    into the United States using the CBP One app were only released into
    the interior at least 95 percent of the time. Additionally, more than
    half a million other inadmissible aliens were granted parole under the
    Mass Parole Program for Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans, and Venezuelans.
        The Trump administration has wisely ended both of these programs by
    Executive Order, but the fallout remains. Earlier this year, DHS Office
    of Inspector General released a review of specific Biden-Harris
    administration parole programs, confirming that the previous
    administration had no plan to remove aliens whose parole had expired.
    That meant that there are potentially hundreds of thousands of
    inadmissible aliens who may still be at large in a country long after
    their parole has expired. To make matters worse, many of these aliens
    and those who sponsored their entry were not properly vetted.
        Both the CHNV program and the CBP One appointments had to be paused
    due to suspected rampant fraud. The consequences of these reckless and
    unlawful parole programs have been devastating and the American public
    has paid the price.
        One horrifying example is the brutal murder of 22-year-old Laken
    Riley, an Augusta University student, at the hands of an illegal alien
    from Venezuela who was paroled into the country by the Biden-Harris
    administration.
        More recently, an Afghan national who was paroled into the United
    States in 2021 was arrested for plotting an attack in the name of ISIS
    on Election Day 2024. This arrest and Laken's tragic death should be a
    wake-up call to lawmakers, that we must be serious about preventing
    future abuse of our immigration law.
        In closing, Congress has a responsibility to examine what steps
    should be taken to mitigate the on-going financial and public safety
    threats enabled by the previous administration's abuse of parole.
        There's no scenario in which paroling millions of inadmissible
    aliens in the country is consistent with current law. We must never
    allow this to happen again. We must work together to ensure that future
    administrations can never again jeopardize our Nation's safety and
    sovereignty. We must implement legislative solutions that will
    guarantee American security for generations to come. I look forward to
    hearing from our witnesses today and with that I yield back.

        Mr. Guest With that, I would like to recognize the Ranking
    Member and my friend from my home State of Mississippi, Mr.
    Thompson, for his opening statement.
        Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Welcome
    also to this hearing and I look forward to the information we
    get.
        But before we begin, I want to express my heartfelt
    condolences to the families of those who lost lives in the
    tragic Texas flooding on Independence Day. Our thoughts and
    prayers are with them. Also, I want to say that we had a
    smaller flood. Nonetheless, we lost lives in New Mexico and we
    want to acknowledge that, also.
        Mr. Chairman, my Republican colleagues and the Trump
    administration are waging a war on faith in civil society in
    the United States. That is a real inside job. So let's talk
    about it.
        Faith-based service and civic associations bring Americans
    together in pursuit of the greater good. That threatens Donald
    Trump and MAGA Republicans because they believe their political
    strength lies in driving wedges between people. In their
    pursuit of political power, Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans
    are ripping apart the fabric of what makes America great: our
    freedom to believe, to practice our faith, and to associate in
    civic organizations that help us in our pursuit of happiness.
        Donald Trump started his second term by attacking religious
    organizations and he has not rested since. On the first day in
    office, Donald Trump paused foreign assistance for the needy,
    harming the work of faith-based religious agencies. On his
    second day in office, Donald Trump decided that deportation
    forces could begin entering houses of worship to arrest
    migrants. After a week in office, Donald Trump's OMB attempted
    to freeze Federal grants, including the Nonprofit Security
    Grant Program, which helped houses of worship protect
    themselves from violence.
        Republicans on this committee appear to want in on that
    action. Just read the Republicans' press release about their
    vindictive investigation of American charities and this sham
    hearing. Republicans falsely accuse Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran,
    Methodist, Evangelical Muslim, and secular charities that feed,
    clothe, and aid the needy of having ``supercharged the business
    model of cartels.'' That is a slanderous accusation and fringe
    conspiracy theories with no basis in reality.
        Republicans sent out 215 letters falsely accusing
    organizations of wrongdoing, even though most of the
    organizations don't receive Federal dollars or provide direct
    services to migrants. This is a scare tactic, plain and simple.
    Republicans' so-called investigation and today's hearing are
    shameful abuses of Congressional power to bully people for how
    they choose to exercise their religion and help their fellow
    man. It is an attack on diverse faith-based organizations over
    their religious practices and is a threat to charities that do
    humanitarian work Republicans do not like.
        It does not surprise me that the Chairman of this
    committee, Mark Green, is absent for his last full committee
    hearing before retiring to Guyana. I, too, would be embarrassed
    if I had to sign off on this hearing.
        What does surprise me is that my good friend, Michael
    Guest, my colleague from Mississippi, a proud Sunday school
    teacher, is chairing a hearing that attacks Christianity and
    bullies private citizens over what they choose to do in lawful
    service in their communities. But that is the damage done--
    Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans have done to our country
    and to the Republican Party.
        Republicans don't want to investigate who's really running
    things at DHS while Kristi Noem is filming all her commercials.
    They don't want to investigate what Donald Trump is hiding by
    restricting Congress' access to Classified files. They don't
    want to investigate why the Trump administration deported sick
    American kids. They don't want to investigate how thousands of
    calls from flood survivors in Texas went unanswered by FEMA.
    Instead, committee Republicans are attacking charities and
    religious organizations for providing food, clothing, and
    shelter to people in need.
        Let me be clear, Republicans have voted for years across
    multiple Presidential administrations to fund humanitarian
    programs that provide food, shelter, basic medical care, and
    transportation for migrants. That includes 10 Republican
    Members of this committee, including every single Republican
    currently running to be the next Chairman. Now, suddenly, they
    have a problem with a program they supported and they need a
    distraction. I might add the program they are criticizing
    actually came about under the Trump administration. Somehow we
    say this is a Biden program, but it was created when Donald
    Trump was President.
        Well, let me say it is shameful that Republicans on this
    committee are scapegoating charities and churches and that help
    the needy just because some of the needy happen to be migrants.
    It is hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle are
    attacking programs they authorized and funded. It is pitiful
    that Republicans would violate Americans' First Amendment
    rights to freedom of religion and association just to distract
    from Kristi Noem's failed natural disaster response, Donald
    Trump's illegal and cruel treatment of migrants, and this
    administration's weaponization of DHS. If committee Republicans
    truly wanted to oversee how DHS used the funding they supported
    to help local governments and charities would provide essential
    services to migrants, they would have invited FEMA here to
    testify, since it administers the Emergency Food and Shelter
    Program.
        On that point, let me say we have been here since January
    20. We have had one administration witness come before this
    committee. One. That was the FEMA administrator. We haven't
    seen anybody else in the third-largest Government agency.
    Republicans would have invited Customs and Border Protection to
    testify since CBP worked with FEMA to establish the shelter and
    services program. Our Republicans would have invited Secretary
    Noem to testify since the funding Republicans have questioned
    about flowed through DHS. Somehow Republicans forgot to ask
    Secretary Noem about the spending during her only appearance
    before this committee this year.
        But Republicans did none of that. Instead, they invited a
    private panel of witnesses to perpetuate Republican attacks
    against organizations that are feeding, sheltering, and helping
    the least of our brothers and sisters. Many on the other side
    purport to be Christians, but their actions today do not square
    with anything I learned in church. This is a shameful
    spectacle, Mr. Chairman, and frankly, it is un-American.
        In closing, I want to say a word to the organizations being
    targeted by the other side. I know many of you are watching
    today and worried that your work is being disrupted by these
    baseless attacks and that people are suffering as a result.
    Please know that those of us on this side of the aisle support
    your Constitutional right to live out your faith and act on the
    courage of your convictions as citizens of this great country.
    Nothing could be more American than that.
        Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I ask unanimous consent
    to enter into the record a letter from over 600 nonprofit and
    nonpartisan organizations who stand in opposition to this
    hearing and Republican attacks on the services and advocacy
    they provide communities.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be admitted into the
    record.
        [The information follows:]
      Letter Submitted on Behalf of 600+ Organizations by Ranking Member
                               Bennie G. Thompson
                                         July 16, 2025.

        We, the undersigned more than 600 nonprofit and nonpartisan
    organizations, stand united in opposition to the House Homeland
    Security Committee's and Senator Josh Hawley's unfounded demands for
    information from hundreds of nonprofit organizations. These charities
    and organizations have done nothing but carry out their work including
    what is outlined in the Federal grants some of them were awarded, and
    include religious organizations and groups working on advocacy and
    services for immigrants, workers, youth, and a vast array of other
    organizations serving their communities.
        These letters of inquiry target civic organizations that have
    provided services under valid Federal contracts that were authorized
    and appropriated by Congress, filling a need the Government cannot
    perform itself. No allegations of wrongdoing, or evidence, is provided
    for these extraordinary and burdensome inquiries. This effort appears
    to be an attempt to weaponize Congressional power and create the
    appearance of wrongdoing against those who the signers believe disagree
    with their political agenda. The process these lawmakers intend to drag
    these law-abiding, community-serving organizations through is the
    punishment.
        As nonprofit and nonpartisan organizations, we work in communities
    across the country to feed the hungry; house those without shelter;
    protect our air and water, our rights to vote, worship, and organize;
    we fight for consumers, workers, and our children; we advocate for
    civil and human rights at home and abroad; we have made it safer to
    drive on our roads, easier to start a business, and healthier to live
    in our cities. We span the full ideological spectrum. And today, we
    stand together for our democracy and in solidarity with those nonprofit
    organizations unjustly targeted by these Congressional letters.
        Let us be clear--this investigation is Congress weaponizing its
    powers to target and intimidate nonprofit organizations that are
    fulfilling the guidelines of Federal grants simply because they
    disagree with the policy those grants advance. This unfounded inquiry
    is not about protecting Americans, rooting out waste and fraud, or
    defending the public interest. It is about using unchecked power to
    chill Constitutionally-protected activity, community activism, and
    voices those sending the letters may disagree with. That is un-American
    and flies in the face of the Constitution.
        This specific attack on nonprofits is not happening in a vacuum.
    Rather, this attack exists in the context of a wholesale offensive
    against organizations and individuals the administration and its allies
    find objectionable. We are standing in solidarity with the
    organizations targeted in this unfounded investigation because
    nonprofits of all types, members of the clergy and religious groups,
    advocates, and community-serving organizations should not be punished
    for their work--even if those in power find it threatening to their
    policy agenda. Our Government is meant to serve the people, not those
    in office.
        Efforts by Members of Congress to attack nonprofit groups they
    disagree with are reprehensible, dangerous, and a violation of
    fundamental American freedoms. Speaking out for the voiceless is, and
    has always been, our collective mission. As such, we stand with those
    organizations wrongly targeted, and with one another.
                Sincerely,
    100 percent Democracy: An Initiative for Universal Voting
    2 Inspire Peace Inc.
    350 Bay Area
    350 Seattle
    350Hawaii
    360 Philanthropy Group LLC
    A Place Called Home
    AAPI NJ
    Abortion Action Missouri
    Acacia Center for Justice
    Action for a Better Community
    Action Together NEPA
    Advocacy for Principled Action in Government
    Afghan Legal Empowerment Portal
    AFLCIO
    African Human Rights Coalition
    AFT
    Air Alliance Houston
    Akonadi Foundation
    Alabama Campaign for Adolescent Sexual Health
    All Voting is Local
    AllBeforeUs, LLC
    Alliance for a Just Society
    Alliance for Justice
    Alliance San Diego
    Alliance to Reclaim Our Schools
    Alternative Schools Network--Added Chance
    American Association of University Women (AAUW)
    American Atheists
    American Humanist Association
    American Jewish World Service
    American Midwest Ballet
    American Oversight
    Americans Against Government Censorship
    Americans for Financial Reform
    Americans United for Separation of Church and State
    Amigos de Guadalupe Center for Justice and Empowerment
    AMPLIFY Girls
    Arab American Institute
    Ascend Justice
    Asian Counseling and Referral Service
    Asian Law Alliance
    Athena Coalition
    Austin Region Justice for Our Neighbors
    Autism Alliance of Michigan
    Autistic People of Color Fund
    Autistic Women & Nonbinary Network
    AVAN Immigrant Services
    Avodah
    Bainbridge Ometepe Sister Islands Organization
    Ballot Initiative Strategy Center
    Bank Climate Advocates
    Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty
    Battle Born Progress
    Bayard Rustin Center for Social Justice
    Bearnstow
    Beta Cell Action
    Better Brazoria Clean Air and Water
    Better Lives Rhode Island
    Bicycle Alliance of Minnesota
    Black Nonbelievers
    Black Women for Wellness Action Project
    Bloodline Dance Theatre
    Bright Lines Project
    CA Budget & Policy Center
    California Climate & Agriculture Network (CalCAN)
    California Communities Against Toxics
    California Donor Table
    California Women's Law Center
    California Work & Family Coalition
    CalNonprofits
    CalPride
    CalWild
    Campaign Legal Center
    CASA, Inc.
    Cedar Tree Foundation
    Center for Common Ground
    Center for Earth, Energy and Democracy
    Center For Economic And Policy Research
    Center for Economic Justice
    Center for Effective Philanthropy
    Center for Elder Law & Justice
    Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law
    Center for International Environmental Law
    Center for Jewish Nonviolence
    Center for Media and Democracy
    Center for Progressive Reform
    Center for Story & Witness
    Center on Policy Initiatives
    CenterLink: The Community of LGBTQ Centers
    Central American Legal Assistance
    Central Coast Alliance United for a Sustainable Economy (CAUSE)
    Ceres Community Project
    ChangeLab Solutions
    Charlotte Trans Health
    Chesapeake Legal Alliance
    Chicago Appleseed Center for Fair Courts
    Chicago Council of Lawyers
    Chicago Jobs Council
    Chicago Women in Trades
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        Mr. Thompson. I yield back.
        [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
                 Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
                                 July 16, 2025
        My Republican colleagues and the Trump administration are waging a
    war on faith and civil society in the United States. That is the real
    ``inside job.'' So, let's talk about it.
        Faith-based service and civic associations bring Americans together
    in pursuit of the greater good, and that threatens Donald Trump and
    MAGA Republicans because they believe their political strength lies in
    driving wedges between people.
        In their pursuit of political power, Donald Trump and MAGA
    Republicans are ripping apart the fabric of what makes America great--
    our freedom to believe, to practice our faith, and to associate in
    civic organizations that help us in our pursuit of happiness.
        Donald Trump started his second term by attacking religious
    organizations, and he has not rested since. On his first day in office,
    Donald Trump paused foreign assistance for the needy, harming the work
    of faith-based relief agencies. On his second day in office, Donald
    Trump decided that deportation forces could begin entering houses of
    worship to arrest migrants. After a week in office, Donald Trump's OMB
    attempted to freeze Federal grants, including the Nonprofit Security
    Grant Program, which helps houses of worship protect themselves from
    violence.
        Republicans on this committee appear to want in on that action.
    Just read the Republicans' press releases about their vindictive
    investigation of American charities and this sham hearing. Republicans
    falsely accuse Catholic, Jewish, Lutheran, Methodist, Evangelical,
    Muslim, and secular charities that feed, clothe, and aid the needy of
    having, ``supercharged the business model of cartels.'' That is a
    slanderous accusation and fringe conspiracy theory with no basis in
    reality.
        Republicans sent out 215 letters falsely accusing organizations of
    wrongdoing, even though most of the organizations don't receive Federal
    dollars or provide direct services to migrants.
        This is a scare tactic, plain and simple. Republicans' so-called
    investigation and today's hearing are shameful abuses of Congressional
    power to bully people for how they choose to exercise their religion
    and help their fellow man. It is an attack on diverse faith-based
    organizations over their religious practices. And it is a threat to
    charities that do humanitarian work Republicans do not like.
        It does not surprise me that the Chairman of this committee, Mark
    Green, is absent for his last full committee hearing before retiring to
    Guyana. I, too, would be embarrassed if I had signed off on this
    hearing.
        What does surprise me is that Michael Guest, a proud Sunday school
    teacher, is chairing a hearing that attacks Christianity and bullies
    private citizens over what they choose to do in lawful service to their
    communities. But that is the damage Donald Trump and MAGA have done to
    our country and to the Republican Party.
        Republicans don't want to investigate who is really running things
    at DHS while Kristi Noem is filming all her commercials. They don't
    want to investigate what Donald Trump is hiding by restricting
    Congress's access to Classified files. They don't want to investigate
    why the Trump administration deported sick American kids. And they
    don't want to investigate how thousands of calls from flood survivors
    in Texas went unanswered by FEMA.
        Instead, Committee Republicans are attacking charities and
    religious organizations for providing food, clothing, and shelter to
    people in need.
        Let me be clear, Republicans have voted--for years and across
    multiple Presidential administrations--to fund humanitarian programs
    that provide food, shelter, basic medical care, and transportation for
    migrants. That includes TEN Republican Members of this committee,
    including every single Republican currently running to take over as
    Chairman.
        Now, suddenly, they have a problem with the programs they
    supported, and they need a distraction. Well, let me just say, it is
    shameful that Republicans on this committee are scapegoating charities
    and churches that help the needy just because some of the needy happen
    to be migrants. It is hypocritical that my colleagues across the aisle
    are attacking programs they authorized and funded.
        It is pitiful that Republicans would violate Americans' First
    Amendment rights to freedom of religion and association just to
    distract from Kristi Noem's failed natural disaster response, Donald
    Trump's illegal and cruel treatment of migrants, and this
    administration's weaponization of DHS.
        If committee Republicans truly wanted to oversee how DHS used the
    funding they supported to help local governments and charities provide
    essential services to migrants, they would have invited FEMA to
    testify, since it administers the Emergency Food and Shelter Program.
    Republicans would have invited Customs and Border Protection to
    testify, since CBP worked with FEMA to establish the Shelter and
    Services Program. Or Republicans would have invited Secretary Noem to
    testify, since the funding Republicans have questions about flowed
    through DHS. Somehow Republicans ``forgot'' to ask Secretary Noem about
    the spending during her only appearance before us this year.
        But Republicans did none of that. Instead, they invited a private
    panel of witnesses to perpetuate Republican attacks against
    organizations that are feeding, sheltering, and helping ``the least of
    our brothers and sisters.'' Many on the other side purport to be
    Christians, but their actions here today do not square with anything I
    learned in church. This is a shameful spectacle. And frankly, it's un-
    American.
        In closing, I want to say a word to the organizations being
    targeted by the other side. I know many of you are watching today and
    are worried that your work is being disrupted by these baseless attacks
    and that people are suffering as a result.
        Please know that those of us on this side of the aisle support your
    Constitutional right to live out your faith and act on the courage of
    your convictions as citizens of this great country. Nothing could be
    more American than that.

        Mr. Guest. Other Members of the committee are reminded that
    opening statements may be submitted for the record.
        Today, we are pleased to have a highly distinguished panel
    of witnesses before us. I would ask that our witnesses please
    rise and please raise your right hand. I will administer the
    oath.
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        Mr. Guest. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the
    witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Our witnesses,
    thank you and please be seated. I would now like to take a
    moment to formally introduce our witnesses.
        First, I'd like to introduce Mike Howell. Mike is the
    president of the Oversight Project, which has done significant
    work through litigation and investigation to uncover
    information about the Biden border crisis. He served as
    oversight counsel at the Department of Homeland Security under
    the first Trump administration and has senior experience in
    different oversight positions on Capitol Hill. A graduate of
    Duke University and Emory Law School, Howell is also a board
    member of the National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
        Second, I would like to introduce Ali Hopper. She is a
    nationally-recognized expert in human trafficking and the
    president and founder of GUARD Against Trafficking, an
    organization that conducts research and advocacy to counter
    exploitation and human trafficking. She authored Florida's
    landmark anti-grooming bill, now used as a model language in
    States across the country. She has testified before Congress on
    child trafficking and has delivered numerous Congressional
    briefings on human trafficking. She conducts on-the-ground
    research in the United States, Mexico, Central and South
    America, and has trained INTERPOL in South America, has trained
    law enforcement officers here at home, and policy makers across
    multiple States and countries.
        Last is Julio Rosas. He is an expert and a renowned
    national correspondent for Blaze Media. As a journalist, he has
    reported on the ground from the Southwest Border during the
    Biden border crisis and has uncovered many riots and protests--
    and has covered many riots and protests across the country,
    notably those sparked by antifa and the Black Lives Matter
    riots of 2020. Julio has previously served in the United States
    Marine Corps as a Reserve.
        I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here.
        I would now like to recognize Mr. Howell for 5 minutes to
    summarize his opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF MICHAEL HOWELL, DIRECTOR, OVERSIGHT PROJECT,
                         THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION

        Mr. Howell. Chairman Guest, Members of the committee, thank
    you for having me here today to testify. My name is Mike Howell
    and I'm the president of the Oversight Project. I'm also a
    visiting fellow for the Heritage Foundation and a board member
    at the National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
        I especially thank you for giving me a platform to plead
    with Members of this body on the Democrats' side to stand down
    on their threats against the men and women of Immigration and
    Customs Enforcement. The violence is getting out of control and
    it is fueled by the demagoguery of politicians. Whether it is
    one of your Members telling Axios that there needs to be blood
    to grab the attention of the press and the public, another
    saying civility isn't working and to prepare for violence, or
    even a Member of this committee being arrested for forcibly
    impeding and interfering with Federal officials, this
    escalation deserves condemnation. It needs to stop and it needs
    to stop now. Assaults against ICE officers are up over 830
    percent and that's a lowball estimate.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Howell. There have been violent incidents in Alvarado,
    McAllen, Portland----
        Mr. Guest. Would the gentleman suspend briefly?
        Yes, Mr. Ranking Member.
        Mr. Thompson. So I got a point of order. Pursuant to clause
    2(k)(8) of rule XI, I raise a point of order that this
    testimony is outside the scope of the hearing.
        Mr. Higgins. I would object to that position, Mr. Chairman.
    That's absurd.
        Mr. Crane. I would object as well.
        Mr. Higgins. The man has a right to his 5 minutes of
    testimony. Clearly, the Democrats don't want to hear truth. I
    object to the Ranking Member's ridiculous position.
        Mr. Guest. The point of order offered by the Ranking Member
    is not in order. This individual has the opportunity to
    summarize his opening statement and the information upon which
    he used to form that opening statement. So the objection is
    overruled.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, if I may. Obviously, I am going
    to appeal the ruling of the Chair and ask for a vote. But
    again, you know, this guy has an opinion.
        Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Thompson. Wait. Do you--no, I respect it.
        Mr. Guest. The Chair has ruled that his testimony is part
    of the basis upon which he is briefing this committee. It will
    be used to talk about his ultimate findings as it relates to
    the purpose of this committee. I understand your objection. The
    objection has been overruled. If you would like to challenge
    that, you are welcome to challenge that. Is the Ranking Member
    challenging the ruling of the Chair?
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I challenge the ruling of the
    Chair.
        Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
        Mr. Higgins. I have a motion.
        Mr. Guest. What is that motion, Mr. Higgins?
        Mr. Higgins. Motion to table.
        Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. The gentleman has
    moved that the motion to table. This is privileged and
    nondebatable. So we will then--is there a second to the motion
    to table?
        Mr. Crane. I second it.
        Mr. Guest. Motion and several seconds of the motion to
    table.
        All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by
    saying aye.
        Any opposed?
        In the ruling of the Chair, the ayes have it and the motion
    is tabled.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.
        Mr. Higgins. As do I.
        Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested. We would ask
    the Clerk to please call the roll.
        The Clerk will call the roll and then once the roll is
    called, we will wait on the additional Members to arrive so
    that they can cast their vote. But the Clerk can begin to call
    the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. I'm sorry, apologies. Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Nay.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes nay.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green.
        [No response.]
        Mr. Guest. Are there other Members that wish to have their
    vote recorded?
        Mr. Clerk, how am I recording?
        The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. I would like to be recorded as an aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. The Clerk will report the tally.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 9 ayes and
    8 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion to table is agreed to.
        Any other issues that need to be taken up before Mr. Howell
    resumes his testimony?
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Yes, sir, Mr. Ranking Member.
        Mr. Thompson. I would like to ask unanimous consent that
    Ms. Ansari from Arizona be permitted to sit with the committee
    and question today's witnesses.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, she will be allowed to sit
    and question witnesses, but not allowed to vote on any matters.
        Any other issues that need to be taken up?
        Mr. Howell, you are recognized once again to continue your
    summation of your opening statement.
        Mr. Howell. Thank you. Reclaiming my time. The violence,
    obstruction, and subversion of the United States that is
    emanating from so-called nongovernmental organizations, unwell
    individuals, some probably paid, and supported by the political
    mainstreaming of violent rhetoric from national politicians,
    should not come as a surprise. We saw the writing on the wall
    during the Biden border crisis with the sick marriage between
    the Government and so-called nongovernmental organizations
    facilitating illegal immigration. The reason I call these
    groups so-called nongovernmental organizations is because they,
    for the most part, draw funds from the Government or have a
    preferential tax status from the Government. They are more
    creatures of the Government than they are nongovernmental.
        Now, the United States of America is still reeling from the
    consequences of the worst border invasion in history. This was
    an invasion that was planned, promoted, encouraged, funded, and
    sustained by radical elements of the previous administration.
    This invasion could not have been accomplished without a
    colossal partnership between the Government and open borders
    organizations. Simply put, under the Biden administration's
    open border policies, the Government could only do so much to
    facilitate mass illegal immigration, welcome illegal aliens
    into the United States, and move them around the country. The
    Biden administration needed help. So they drove an estimated $6
    billion to a conglomerate of 15 U.N. agencies and over 200
    nonprofits as recently calculated by the Center for Immigration
    Studies to do the open borders work for them.
        Now, my organization, the Oversight Project, has led the
    way on exposing this border industrial complex. In December of
    2022, we published the first-of-its-kind study tracking the
    cell phone movement of illegal aliens through these
    organizations at the border. With only a small sample size of
    30,000 devices, we found that these devices went to 431
    Congressional districts. That's nearly everywhere in the
    country.
        In New York, we discovered a taxpayer-funded shelter
    providing false residency documents to illegals. In Mexico, we
    discovered flyers at an illegal alien staging camp encouraging
    illegals to remember to vote for Biden when they got in the
    United States. In Arizona, we found a Mexican consulate
    official at an NGO advising illegals on how to lie to law
    enforcement and evade ICE. We have produced documentary
    evidence of noncitizens admitting on camera to being registered
    to vote in Arizona, Georgia, Minnesota, and North Carolina.
    This year we obtained video evidence of an open borders
    organization in New York City hosting a seminar on how to evade
    ICE.
        This is the new trend. Open borders organizations are now
    in the obstruction of ICE business. Without the partnership and
    the money of the Biden administration, a blob of nonprofits,
    legal groups, and foot soldiers are taking to the streets to
    create chaos. This makes sense because the goal has always been
    destabilization. This destabilization is happening right here
    around us. Incendiary and defamatory protest rhetoric linked to
    the group 50501 and FLARE, which is formerly the May Day
    Movement, which did No Kings, which many members of this body
    promoted and Party for Socialism and Liberation movements are
    some of the groups that are radicalizing individuals and
    inciting violence. This only ends in violence.
        Now, the Oversight Project has asked this administration,
    the President Trump's administration, to stop issuing permits
    for peaceful protest to nonpeaceful groups. People should be
    able to go to work in the District of Columbia without being
    spat on, assaulted, or having an air horn blown into their
    eardrums. This happens all the time. I know first-hand.
        In conclusion, I'd encourage you all to think broadly about
    the blob of various organizations and strategies that were
    involved in sustaining the Biden border crisis and also
    understand what is still happening today. I thank you for the
    opportunity to testify and I'm happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Howell follows:]
                      Prepared Statement of Michael Howell
                                 july 16, 2025
        Chairman Guest and Members of the House Committee on Homeland
    Security, thank you for inviting me to testify. My name is Mike Howell
    and I am the president of the Oversight Project as well as a visiting
    fellow for the Heritage Foundation and an advisory board member for the
    National Immigration Center for Enforcement.
        I especially thank you for giving me a platform to plead with
    Members of this body, all on the Democrat side, to stand down on their
    threats against the personnel of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    The violence is getting out of control, and it is a direct result of
    the demagoguery from Congress. Whether it is one of your Members
    telling Axios that ``there needs to be blood to grab the attention of
    the press and the public,'' another saying ``civility isn't working''
    and to prepare for ``violence'', or even a Member of this very
    committee being arrested for forcibly impeding and interfering with
    Federal officers, this escalation deserves condemnation from all
    regardless of politics. It needs to stop and stop now.
        Now to the matter at hand today, the role of the so-called non-
    governmental organizations in facilitating illegal immigration and the
    subversion of the United States' sovereignty, with a particular focus
    on their role in the Biden Border Crisis. The reason I call these
    groups so-called non-governmental organizations is because they, for
    the most part, draw Government funds or have a preferential tax status
    from the Government. They are more creatures of the Government than
    non-governmental organizations. For the remainder of my testimony, I
    will call them what they are: open borders organizations that are part
    of the Border Industrial Complex.
        The United States of America is still reeling from the consequences
    of the worst border invasion in its history. This was an invasion that
    was planned, promoted, encouraged, funded, and sustained by radical
    elements of the previous administration. This invasion could not have
    been accomplished without a colossal ``partnership'' between the
    Government and open borders organizations. It is the dramatic excesses
    of the previous 4 years, built on decades of lackadaisical enforcement
    at the border in the interior, that created the situation we are in now
    where there is an urgent need for mass deportation as the common-sense
    correction to the problem. This was plain as day for all those who
    cared to see it as most Americans united behind policies to promote the
    biggest enforcement activities in American history.
        Simply put, under the Biden administration's open-border policies,
    the Government could only do so much to facilitate mass illegal
    migration, welcome the illegal aliens to the United States, and move
    them around the country. It needed help and open borders organizations
    jumped at the opportunity to fill the void. The Biden administration
    repaid them by driving an estimated $6 billion to a conglomerate of 15
    U.N. agencies and 230 NGO's, as recently calculated by the Center for
    Immigration Studies, to do this work for them.\1\ In doing so, the
    Biden administration turned the Border Patrol into nothing more than a
    welcome center, a day care, and glorified Uber drivers that ferried
    illegal aliens to open borders organizations. In turn, the open borders
    organizations facilitated mass migration of illegal aliens throughout
    the interior of the United States.
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        \1\ https://nypost.com/2025/02/01/opinion/how-us-taxpayers-funded-
    the-largest-illegal-migration-in-history/.
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        The Oversight Project has led the way on exposing this border
    industrial complex. In December 2022, we published a first-of-its-kind
    study tracking the movement of illegal aliens by their cell phones
    through these organizations at the border.\2\ Our investigation was
    simple. We purchased the ad tech cell phone data of approximately
    30,000 devices found at open borders organization facilities and
    tracked the movement of those devices throughout the United States
    during the month of January 2022. The results were staggering. We found
    that these devices traveled to 431 different Congressional districts in
    the United States. Our research proved that indeed ``every town is a
    border town.''
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        \2\ https://www.heritage.org/the-oversight-project/securing-
    americas-borders/tracking-movement-illegal-aliens-ngos-the-us.
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        Our work provided much-needed ammunition for the House of
    Representatives to write and pass H.R. 2 (118th Cong.), which notably
    contained a provision prohibiting DHS from providing funds to NGO's
    that facilitate or encourage illegal immigration or provide certain
    services such as lodging or legal services.\3\ This was a landmark
    shift for politicians in Washington, DC, with the dirty little secret
    being that many had a cozy relationship with these organizations.
    Moving forward, prohibiting the funding of the invasion itself through
    these groups should be a common-sense staple. To that end, DHS's
    freezing of such money only makes sense and Congress should follow-on
    to legislate that no taxpayer dollar ever again goes toward any
    organization that advertises, promotes, facilitates, or provides
    assistance, including but not limited to transportation, lodging or
    shelter, legal services, or financial support to illegal aliens. And
    those are just the terms that I can think of today. To put it simply,
    our entire government and the money that flows from it should be
    opposed to illegal immigration and never spend a single penny to help
    illegal immigration.
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        \3\ https://www.Congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2.
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        I pause for a moment to discuss the entire point of H.R. 2, which
    was to close the loopholes that the Biden administration weaponized to
    open the border and to prevent future administrations adverse to border
    security from doing the same. There has been much misinformation on
    this very point, with some of your colleagues in the Senate and the
    previous administration who united around a policy to maintain record
    numbers of illegal border crossings as a new normal. As President Trump
    said in his State of the Union, those people ``kept saying we needed
    new legislation to secure the border--but it turned out that all we
    really needed was a new President.'' How right he is.
        In addition, the Oversight Project has uncovered instance after
    instance of seedy behaviors at open borders organizations promoting
    illegal immigration. In New York, we discovered a taxpayer-funded
    shelter providing false residency documents to illegals. In Mexico, we
    discovered flyers at an illegal alien staging camp encouraging illegals
    to remember to vote for Biden when they got to the United States. In
    Arizona, we found a former Mexican consulate official at an NGO
    advising illegals to lie to law enforcement to evade ICE--a probable
    violation of 8 U.S.C.  1324. Additionally, we have produced
    documentary evidence of noncitizens admitting, on camera, to being
    registered to vote in Georgia, North Carolina, Illinois, and New
    York.\4\ Recently, we obtained video evidence of an open borders
    organization in New York City hosting a seminar on how to evade ICE.
    This is the new trend: open borders organizations are now in the
    obstruction-of-ICE business.
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        \4\ https://x.com/OversightPR/status/1836145827091210719.
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        Where are the deep dives and accounting audits into the over $6
    billion spent by our Government but outside the Government to promote a
    border crisis? A scandal of such epic proportions deserves
    accountability of epic proportions. The Biden Border Crisis was a
    flagrant Constitutional abuse, perhaps the greatest in American history
    for its scale and just complete contradiction of the very duties of our
    own Government to secure our own borders and protect Americans, not to
    make them worse. This body funded the groups that facilitated of Jose
    Ibarra's illegal entry into this country and multiple trips to New York
    and Georgia, where he killed Laken Riley. They are the poster children
    for this fiscal negligence.
        I encourage all of you to commit to a deep investigation into the
    actions of these organizations over the last few years, not to mention
    the troubling trend of these groups working against the national
    interest to assist illegals in evading ICE. I am glad to hear that some
    steps have been taken in that direction. They should continue. This
    body funded these groups and retains the responsibility to the taxpayer
    to figure out who spent that money, how, and what information they
    retain about the illegals they moved and where.
        But the one thing I want to leave you with, and perhaps most
    importantly, is that it took immense organizational sophistication and
    creative genius by open borders advocates to design a system where they
    could significantly augment the ability of the Government to get
    illegal aliens into the country. You can now do the same to get them
    out.
        Now is the time to look at all available streams of funding to
    drive capacity toward those outside the Federal Government who can help
    get this done. Whether it is educating illegals that their free ride is
    over and deportation is in the offing, helping arrange travel home, or
    empowering States, the same can be done in reverse. The funding from
    the reconciliation package makes this possible. It is time for a
    complete modernization of the immigration enforcement system and border
    security. We do not need to secure our country for just 2025, but for
    the future. This means a renaissance in applying technological and
    scientific advancements. Currently, the stove-piped systems of various
    Federal agencies holding different sets of critical information for
    enforcement are outdated. We need to lean into the available
    technological and scientific advancements to make sure our immigration
    enforcement capabilities are the world's envy.
        We should also be preparing for the cartels to fight back. These
    transnational criminals made a lot of money in cooperation with the
    Biden administration. They aren't just going to give up territory and
    profit modes of human and drug trafficking. I encourage you all to
    think deeply about not just investing in traditional modes of border
    security and personnel, but about what it means to secure the border
    against drones, kinetic attacks, and evolving means of asymmetrical
    warfare. The events of October 7 in Israel should be instructive in
    this regard.
        I thank Chairman Guest and Members of the committee for the
    opportunity to testify, and I am happy to answer any questions.

        Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Howell.
        At this time, I would like to recognize Ms. Hopper for her
    5 minutes to summarize her opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF ALICIA HOPPER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, GUARD
                          AGAINST TRAFFICKING

        Ms. Hopper. Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, and
    distinguished committee Members, thank you for the opportunity
    to testify. My name is Ali Hopper, president and cofounder of
    GUARD Against Trafficking, a nonprofit dedicated to combating
    human trafficking.
        As a Hispanic mother, I have held a 6-year-old Colombian
    child in my arms, cold, dirty, and shaking, left to die at the
    border by the cartel. I have seen children that have crossed
    the border alone, holding scraps of paper with sponsor
    information given to them by the cartels. When I testified in
    November, we discussed the exploitation of children at our
    border. Today, countless children continue to be neglected,
    abused, or trafficked by a system meant to protect them. We
    must ask, how was this allowed to happen? And what role did
    NGO's play?
        My research partner, Dr. Jarrod Sadulski, and I have
    conducted extensive field work, including interviewing
    incarcerated traffickers, cartel members, whistleblowers, and
    unaccompanied alien children themselves. An ORR field
    specialist had visited a home to place a 17-year-old and
    reported serious concerns, most notably that the adult claiming
    to be the child's mother was adorned in MS-13 tattoos. Despite
    these concerns, ORR leadership overruled that specialist.
    Tragically, 3 months later, that child was found dead, his
    pants around his ankles, with an older man passed out next to
    him. This heartbreaking case is not isolated. It highlights a
    system overwhelmed by both scale and mismanagement.
        Since 2008, over $20 billion has been dispersed under the
    UAC program, almost 14 billion of that in the last 6 years
    alone. Meaning over two-thirds of funding was spent in just
    one-third of the program's lifespan. Yet despite this massive
    investment, hundreds of thousands of children remain
    unaccounted for as the U.S. taxpayer dollars fueled a system
    hijacked by criminal networks. No-bid billion-dollar contracts
    were awarded with little oversight, while influx facilities
    became transportation hubs.
        A striking example is Endeavors. Their IRS filings show
    revenues soaring from 65 million in 2019 to 1.18 billion in
    2022, driven almost entirely by Federal contracts. During this
    time, CEO Jon Allman's salary rose from 292,000 to 730,000 with
    six-figure executive surge bonuses added. Endeavors ended 2022
    with $112 million surplus.
        Andrew Lorenzen-Strait, a former Biden transition official
    and ICE advisor, helped secure no-bid Federal contracts for
    Endeavors and was caught on camera calling the border crisis a
    boom for business. Inside, Endeavors' leadership blocked
    critical safety protocols, resisted oversight, and silenced
    internal dissent. Our interviews with contracted auditors at
    Endeavors' Pico, Texas, facility revealed disturbing findings.
    Male staff had been found inside female dorm rooms. An employee
    had led 150 teenage girls in sexually explicit routines, dance
    routines, teaching them how to twerk on multiple occasions. A
    female over 18 had been shielded from ICE. Others nearing 18
    were released early to avoid transfer to ICE. And auditors were
    blocked from reviewing child sponsor placements.
        These abuses are not unique to Endeavors. Similar patterns
    existed across multiple NGO's. Federal contracts had
    prioritized speed over safety and rewarded output over
    outcomes, conditions which cartels exploited. A cartel
    operative in Tecate, Mexico, explained to us how children were
    routinely kidnapped and funneled into the United States for
    profit. Cartels infiltrated NGO's along those smuggling routes,
    turning humanitarian pathways into trafficking pipelines.
        Weak sponsor vetting worsened this problem. An HHS audit
    later found that 70 percent of sponsor applications were
    fraudulent, making proper post-placement welfare checks nearly
    impossible. Recently, we discovered about 117 unaccompanied
    children believed to be trafficked on a farm in the Midwest
    where our intervention sparked a current investigation. These
    cases are emerging nationwide. Last week, ICE and CBP arrested
    about 361 illegal aliens at two cannabis farms in California,
    finding 10 unaccompanied children.
        So where do we go from here? This is not about politics.
    It's about protecting children and confronting modern-day
    slavery. Good intentions and humanitarian missions must never
    excuse harm when policies enable exploitation. Accountability
    and decisive action must ensure it never happens again.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Hopper follows:]
                      Prepared Statement of Alicia Hopper
        Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, and distinguished Members
    of the committees, thank you for the opportunity to testify and for
    addressing this urgent matter.
        My name is Ali Hopper, and I am the president & co-founder of GUARD
    Against Trafficking, a 501(c)3 dedicated to combatting human
    trafficking through innovative research, dynamic education, and
    empowered action. As a Hispanic mother, I have held in my arms a 6-
    year-old Colombian child that was left to die at the border by the
    cartel. The child was dirty, cold, and terrified.
        I've walked the very paths these children traveled along the
    border--trails littered with discarded IDs, torn clothing, and haunting
    signs of the sexual exploitation they've endured. We've seen
    unaccompanied children first-hand crossing our border clutching scraps
    of paper with a name, a phone number, and an address--given to them by
    the cartels, already coached on who to request as their sponsor.
        And in the 5 minutes I speak to you, countless unaccompanied alien
    children are still suffering--abused, trafficked, and forgotten by a
    system that was supposed to protect them.
        When I testified before you in November, we spoke about how men,
    women, and children were being sold, exploited, and brutalized within
    our own borders--and how unaccompanied children became some of the most
    vulnerable victims.
        Today, we must ask the harder question: How did we allow this to
    happen? And what role did NGO's play in making it possible?
                               research findings
        My research partner Dr. Jarrod Sadulski, and I have conducted
    extensive field research including direct interviews with unaccompanied
    alien children (UACs), human traffickers, cartel members, and
    whistleblowers. Our findings revealed were significant systemic
    failures and corruption at the highest levels:
       Unprecedented Trafficking Due to Lax Sponsor Vetting.--In
            interviews with cartel members incarcerated for human
            trafficking, they explained how weak sponsor verification
            incentivized trafficking by enabling cartels to control
            children's placement by supplying children with exact sponsor
            information, allowing control over their destination.
       Alarming Conditions at the Border.--A cartel operative in
            Tecate, Mexico, described the routine kidnapping of children
            for trafficking into the United States, made easier by open
            borders, inadequate border security, and flawed NGO screening
            practices. Cartels infiltrated NGOS along smuggling routes to
            the Southwest Border, using them to facilitate in the smuggling
            or trafficking of children. By providing children with false
            documents and pairing them with adults to pose as family units,
            they placed the children in grave danger.
       Falsified Records.--According to an internal audit conducted
            by Health and Human Services (HHS), approximately 70 percent of
            sponsor applications examined were found to be fraudulent,
            making child traceability and safety assurances nearly
            impossible.\1\
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        \1\ https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-immigration-advisor-targets-
    criminals-exploiting-unaccompanied-minors-who-entered-us-under-biden.
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       Neglect of the Hotline System.--The HHS hotline, established
            to address concerns about UAC placements, received nearly
            65,000 calls from August 2023 to January 2025, that went
            largely unanswered, allowing trafficking to continue
            unchecked.\2\ For example, one call was received of a child
            reporting ``a lot of grown men were coming into his bedroom and
            touching him''. This call was ignored by the previous
            administration and only acted upon after this current
            administration took over, leading to a welfare check, the child
            being rescued and the sponsor being arrested.
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        \2\ https://www.grassley.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/
    grassley_to_hhs_backlog_of_unac-
    companied_migrant_children_reports.pdf.
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                failure of ngo's to adequately protect children
        Today we are here to examine how that happened. To confront how
    children were failed grossly mismanaged by NGO's funded by U.S.
    taxpayer dollars.
        Because here's the hard truth: the United States Government became
    the middleman in a humanitarian pipeline exploited by cartels and
    obscured by Federal contracts. They awarded no-bid, billion-dollar
    contracts to NGO's without oversight; and allowed influx facilities,
    funded by taxpayers, to operate as transportation hubs.
        One notable example of this mismanagement is Endeavors. While we
    will focus on specific instances there, a broader review of all NGO's
    involved in this process suggests similarly troubling findings are
    likely widespread--such as those uncovered within Southwest Key
    programs.
                    endeavors: a case study in mismanagement
        We examined Endeavors' IRS Form 990's from 2019 through 2022
    [Exhibit 1], looking for indicators of financial irregularities,
    executive enrichment, program mismanagement, and misuse of Federal
    funds related to the UAC program. Prior to 2021, Endeavors was a mid-
    level social service nonprofit (revenues $50-60 million) with a mix of
    grants (VA, HUD, etc.) and program service income. In 2020, Endeavors
    reported $52 million in revenue. By 2021, that number had soared to
    $658 million. In 2022, it eclipsed $1.18 billion, comparable to the
    very largest NGO's like Save the Children USA ($1.0 billion) or
    International Rescue Committee ($900 million). However, Endeavors'
    funding is nearly 100 percent Federal, whereas Save the Children and
    IRC have diversified funding (private donations, U.N. grants, etc.).
    Save the Children, for example, gets 55 percent of its funding from
    the U.S. Government and the rest from private donors. What was the key
    driver of this soaring scalability? Government contracts like the $385
    million no-bid contract from the Office of Refugee Resettlement.\3\
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        \3\ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2035069/hhs-awarded-
    group-with-biden-ties-530m-no-bid-contract-to-house-migrant-children/.
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        During that same period, Endeavors executives padded their pockets.
    CEO Jon Allman's compensation doubled to $615,000 in 2021, then rose to
    $730,000 in 2022. The CFO and COO weren't far behind. The executive
    team received six-figure ``surge bonuses'' directly tied to revenue
    growth--bonuses funded by the very grants meant to protect children
    were treated like venture capital--not public service. Endeavors ended
    2021 with a $33 million surplus and $112 million in 2022.
        And behind those numbers stood some of the individuals who helped
    make it all possible. Andrew Lorenzen-Strait, a former Biden transition
    official and ICE advisor, helped facilitate no-bid Federal contracts to
    Endeavors and was caught on camera referring to the border crisis as a
    ``boom for business''.\4\ The Endeavors' director of training and
    compliance, along with the acting senior director for migrant services
    & federal affairs, reinforced this environment by blocking safety
    protocols, resisting oversight, and silencing internal dissent.
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        \4\ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/1785362/biden-
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        Based our research interviews with contracted compliance officers
    with first-hand accounts at the Endeavors' Pecos, Texas facility, and
    their written statements [Exhibit 2]:
       ``Staff were hired without completed fingerprinting or
            thorough background checks.''
       ``Male staff were found inside female dorms.''
       ``A contractor led 150 teenage girls, minors in sexually
            explicit dance routines, teaching them how to `twerk'. He did
            it twice--once at the facility's ribbon-cutting, and again
            months later--before an on-site compliance officer demanded
            intervention.''
       ``Children collapsed after being subjected to massive
            vaccination protocols with no parental consent and no clear
            medical follow-up.''
       ``Two compliance officers discovered a female housed alone
            in a dorm who was over 18 years of age. Endeavors was shielding
            her from ICE. In other cases, UACs on the verge of turning 18
            were released early to avoid ICE transfer.''
       ``An Endeavors employee that raised concerns about too many
            children being sent a single address was terminated.''
       ``A former ICE employee with a background in case
            management, serving as a contracted compliance team lead was
            actively stonewalled from reviewing child placements.''
                        consequences of systemic neglect
        To reiterate, it wasn't just Endeavors. Across the country, NGO's
    became way stations--processing points in a steady flow of children.
    Federal contracts incentivized output over outcomes, prioritizing speed
    over safety.
        And the cartels took full advantage. They studied every gap and
    exploited them, sending children into a system they knew would fast-
    track them to cartel-controlled sponsors--without meaningful background
    checks, with addresses verified through postal databases, and IDs often
    accepted via WhatsApp or text with no facial match to the sender. This
    is how 70 percent of sponsor data became falsified or fraudulent.
        Post-placement welfare checks were typically limited to two phone
    calls made to the sponsor's home; if no one answered, the case was no
    longer followed up on. This broken process contributed to the
    staggering over 300,000 children who went unaccounted for.
        NGO's were also tasked with transporting children to the unvetted
    sponsors, yet we personally witnessed unaccompanied children from the
    border flying alone with no escort. Flight attendants encountered
    situations where children were sent to the wrong locations, couldn't
    communicate due to language barriers and in some cases required CPS or
    police intervention when sponsors failed to appear at the airport gate.
    Most children were placed without home studies to assess their safety--
    though a small number of exceptions existed.
        Through research, we uncovered the case of an Office of Refugee
    Resettlement (ORR) field specialist who visited a home where a 17-year-
    old child was set to be placed. The field specialist noted that the
    person claiming to be the child's mother was adorned in MS-13 tattoos.
    Despite the specialist's report of serious concerns, ORR leadership
    overruled them. Three months following placement, that child was found
    dead--his pants around his ankles, with an older man passed out next to
    him.
        In another case in Cleveland, a 30-year-old sponsor falsely claimed
    to be a ``brother'' of a 14-year-old UAC. After placement, the child
    was raped by other men in the household.
        Just last week, ICE and CBP arrested approximately 200 total
    illegal aliens at two cannabis farms in California, where 10
    unaccompanied children were found--part of an ongoing investigation
    into child labor violations and suspected trafficking. Similar cases
    are happening nationwide.\5\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \5\ https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/11/ice-and-cbp-law-
    enforcement-dodge-literal-bullets-rioters-while-rescuing-least-10.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Through our research, we discovered approximately 117 UAC children
    that are believed to be trafficked on a farm in the Midwest. Through
    our intervention, there is a now a current criminal investigation into
    that matter. We cannot allow global industries to profit from
    trafficking, abuse, and modern-day slavery.
        So, where do we go from here?
        First, we must acknowledge the hard truth: these failures were not
    isolated or unforeseeable. They were the result of negligence, lack of
    oversight, and a culture of unaccountability.
                             policy recommendations
        This moment is not about partisanship. It's about protecting
    children and standing united against the evils of modern-day slavery.
    Humanitarian missions--no matter how good the intention is of that
    mission, must never excuse negligence. When policies lead to the
    exploitation or harm of children, there must be accountability.
        Therefore, I respectfully urge Congress to:
        1. Initiate a full forensic audit of all ORR contracts exceeding
            $100 million, suspending funding until audits are completed.
        2. Implement full claw-back provisions to return every unspent
            dollar to the Treasury.
        3. Mandate transparent public disclosures, independent Federal
            oversight, and standardized tracking for UAC placements.
        4. Require comprehensive home studies both before and after
            placements of unaccompanied minors.
        We have the responsibility and the opportunity to do what is right.
    We must move forward with courage, moral clarity, and unity to restore
    integrity to this system--and to protect the innocent lives depending
    on us.
        Thank you for your time, and for the opportunity to share my
    research. I welcome your questions.
                                  exhibits \6\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \6\ [Exhibits to this prepared statement may be found in Appendix
    II.]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        1. Endeavors' IRS Form 990s from 2019 through 2022.
        2. Written Statements from Gabriela Pacheco and Derrick Charleston.

        Mr. Guest. Thank you, Ms. Hopper.
        I now recognize Mr. Rosas for 5 minutes to summarize his
    opening statement.

               STATEMENT OF JULIO ROSAS, PRIVATE CITIZEN

        Mr. Rosas. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the
    opportunity to speak today about this important topic.
        I've been covering the U.S.-Mexico border as a reporter
    since 2019. I saw first-hand how secure the Southern Border was
    during President Trump's first term. I went on to be at the
    Southern Border for the next 4 years to document the deliberate
    and horrific open-border policies implemented by the Biden-
    Harris administration.
        The numbers don't lie, the videos don't lie. What our
    country experienced was a deliberate invasion at the behest of
    the previous administration. Their efforts could not have been
    possible without the nongovernmental organizations who provided
    the Federal Government the ability to flood our country with
    people who brazenly cross our borders illegally.
        The NGO's located along the border were often the first
    place processed migrants went to after being released by Border
    Patrol. These organizations helped the Biden-Harris
    administration avoid the bad optics of released migrants having
    to be on the street due to the large volume of overcrowding in
    certain sectors. Even with those efforts, the mass overcrowding
    still resulted in people sleeping on the streets, sometimes
    during the winter.
        Ultimately, the goal of these NGO's was to get people to
    their desired destination within the United States and get them
    settled in, even though their legal status was far from being
    secured. I would often see volunteers or staffers at the
    airport when I left the border guiding these process migrants
    to ensure they made their flights. A few times I saw them
    ushering unaccompanied minors. This is haunting to think back
    on now, knowing that Biden's HHS lost track of tens of
    thousands of minors once they reached their supposed final
    destination.
        By having this guaranteed help once they reach U.S. soil,
    illegal aliens had greater incentive to put their lives in
    danger by traversing through the Darien Gap in cartel-
    controlled territory in Mexico. One shelter in El Paso told me
    in 2023, around 80 percent of the women who had come to them
    had been raped, sometimes in front of their children. This
    highlights that despite the NGO's having the stated goal of
    helping these people, their help ends up harming the people who
    would go to use their services. Yes, they made it to the United
    States, but at what cost?
        Congress needs to ensure taxpayer dollars cannot be used to
    go toward enabling an invasion of our country ever again. It is
    a misuse of taxpayer dollars and, most importantly, it's a
    betrayal to the American people. Our tax money should be going
    toward Americans first and foremost. Instead, millions of
    dollars went to organizations such as Catholic Charities and
    International Rescue Committee.
        The reason why it's important to not let this happen again
    is because the 4-year-long border crisis facilitated by these
    NGO's is the reason why there are riots in sanctuary cities
    today. President Trump campaigned and won on carrying out mass
    deportations. And the American people want to undo the damage
    inflicted by the Biden-Harris administration. NGO's have even
    made an appearance at the recent unrest happening in Los
    Angeles County. A recent example of this is Federal agents
    arresting 4 people for interfering with an operation by
    allegedly placing homemade spikes on the road with the
    intention to damage their tires. On their person was a bag
    branded with the logo of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant
    Rights, Los Angeles. Congress needs to look into whether NGO's
    are supporting people directly or indirectly who are currently
    interfering with Federal operations.
        I can tell you that while Americans are happy the border
    crisis is finally over, they want to see accountability. I
    believe Congress can make that accountability happen should you
    decide to act.
        Since I have a few a little bit of time left, I want to say
    I'm here testifying today as a proud Latino. But most
    importantly, I'm here as an American citizen. This is my
    country, this is my home, this is where I grew up in. That is
    why the rhetoric coming from one side of the aisle about these
    operations saying, no, no, no, we got to keep our cheap labor
    so that we can maintain our standard of living proves that they
    want to view Latinos simply as a underclass to siphon votes
    from and fearmonger from every time that there's an election.
    They're content with keeping us as that servant underclass.
        That is why it is disgusting to see them criticize that
    recent raid in Ventura County where they found unaccompanied
    minors working alongside convicted sex offenders at a cannabis
    farm. No, we got to keep them there because or else how else
    are we going to get high if we can't have unaccompanied minors
    harvest our weed? It's quite frankly despicable.
        The last thing I want to say is that the last time I
    appeared before this committee, we had one Member say that
    antifa is just an ideology, it's not a movement, by using an
    outdated quote from the FBI director. Well, coming back from
    Los Angeles, Seattle, and Portland, just this past month, with
    the recent riots, I can tell you that antifa is very real and
    the fact that they are also connected to that recent attempted
    ambush at that ICE facility in Texas.
        So I just wanted to reflect for the record that I was right
    then, right now, that antifa is very real and very dangerous.
    Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Rosas follows:]
                       Prepared Statement of Julio Rosas
        Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak
    today about this important topic. I have been covering the U.S.-Mexico
    border since 2019. I saw first-hand how secure the Southern Border was
    during President Trump's first term. I went on to be at the Southern
    Border for the next 4 years to document the deliberate and horrific
    open border policies implemented by the Biden-Harris administration.
        The numbers don't lie. The videos don't lie. What our country
    experienced was a deliberate invasion at the behest of the previous
    administration. Their efforts could not be possible without the non-
    governmental organizations who provided the Federal Government the
    ability to flood our country with people who brazenly crossed our
    borders illegally.
        The NGO's located along the border were often the first place
    processed migrants went to after being released by Border Patrol. These
    organizations helped the Biden-Harris administration avoid the bad
    optics of released migrants having to be on the street due to the large
    volume of overcrowding in certain sectors. Even with those efforts, the
    mass overcrowding still resulted in people sleeping on the streets,
    sometimes during the winter.
        Ultimately, the goal of these NGO's was to get people to their
    desired destination within the United States and get them settled in,
    even though their legal status was far from being secured. I would
    often see volunteers or staffers at the airport when I left the border
    guiding these processed migrants to ensure they made their flight. A
    few times I saw them ushering unaccompanied minors. This is haunting to
    think back on now knowing Biden's HHS lost track of thousands of minors
    once they reached their supposed final destination.
        By having this guaranteed help once they reached U.S. soil, illegal
    aliens had greater incentive to put their lives in danger by traversing
    through the Darien Gap and cartel-controlled territory in Mexico. One
    shelter in El Paso told me in 2023 around 80 percent of the women who
    came to them had been raped, sometimes in front of their children. This
    highlights that despite the NGO's having the stated goal of helping
    these people, their ``help'' ends up harming the people who used their
    services. Yes, they made it to the United States, but at what cost?
        Congress needs to ensure taxpayer dollars cannot be used to go
    toward enabling an invasion of our country ever again. It is a misuse
    of taxpayer dollars and a betrayal to the American people. Our tax
    money should be going toward Americans, first and foremost.
        Instead, millions of dollars went to organizations such as Catholic
    Charities and the International Rescue Committee.
        The reason why it is important to not let this happen again is
    because the 4-year-long border crisis, facilitated by these NGO's, is
    the reason why there are riots in sanctuary cities today. President
    Trump won on mass deportations and the American people want to undo the
    damage inflicted by the Biden-Harris administration.
        NGO's have made an appearance at the recent unrest happening in Los
    Angeles County. A recent example of this is Federal agents arresting 4
    people for interfering with an operation by allegedly placing homemade
    spikes on the road with the intention to damage tires. On their person
    was a bag branded with the logo of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant
    Rights Los Angeles. Congress needs to look into whether NGO's are
    supporting people, directly or indirectly, who are interfering with
    Federal operations.
        I can tell you that while Americans are happy the acute border
    crisis is over, they want to see accountability. I believe Congress can
    make that accountability happen should you decide to act.
        Thank you again for this opportunity and I look forward to your
    questions.

        Mr. Guest. Thank you. I want to thank all of our witnesses,
    again, for being here and for their opening statements.
        Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their
    5 minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning
    may be called after all Members have been recognized.
        I would like to recognize the gentleman from the great
    State of Louisiana, Clay Higgins, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
    panelists for being here today.
        Let me ask you all a yes or no question and we are going to
    build this thing out. Do you believe if an employee or an agent
    of an NGO that is implicated in child trafficking in a criminal
    investigation, if they cross the threshold of reasonable
    suspicion and they are investigated, and that investigation
    leads to the jurisdictional authority, the investigative
    authority, developing probable cause, so they cross the
    threshold of probable cause and they are arrested and then they
    are prosecuted, and if they are convicted, they cross the
    threshold of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and they are
    convicted. I am talking about an employee of an NGO that
    participated willingly during the last 4 years with the
    trafficking of human beings, including children that were
    destined to be trafficked into the sex trade.
        Mr. Howell, do you think that employee of that NGO should
    be convicted and incarcerated based upon the judicial system
    and the criminal justice system I just described? Yes or no?
        Mr. Howell. Yes.
        Mr. Higgins. Ms. Hopper.
        Ms. Hopper. Yes.
        Mr. Higgins. Mr. Rosas.
        Mr. Rosas. Yes.
        Mr. Higgins. Well, I concur. Much to the chagrin of a whole
    abhorrent industry of child trafficking that prospered from the
    open border policies of the Biden administration for 4 years,
    2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024, much to the chagrin of these people
    that made bank, man, we are coming after them. This Executive
    branch is building criminal files. So I hope they are watching
    and I hope they are frightened. I hope they are getting their
    affairs in order, hiring their liberal attorneys to defend
    them, starting to shuffle their money around. We will find it.
        Mr. Howell, are you aware that ongoing right now, right now
    in our country, of DHS, ICE, FBI, local, and State law
    enforcement agencies working on Classified operations to
    locate, find, and rescue trafficked tender age, mostly girls.
    Talking about girls 14 and younger across the country that were
    trafficked into our country in 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. Are
    you aware that those operations are on-going?
        Mr. Howell. Yes, sir. They're trying to find the children
    the Biden administration lost.
        Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Howell.
        Ms. Hopper, you aware?
        Ms. Hopper. I am.
        Mr. Higgins. Mr. Rosas.
        Mr. Rosas. Correct. I'm aware.
        Mr. Higgins. Thank you. Would you be surprised, and
    according to my research, which will very soon be revealed next
    week, they have rescued so far 35,000 tender-aged kids? How do
    you like that?
        Now, according to Ms. Hopper's research, which I find
    fascinating, everybody up here should, 70 percent of the
    documentation turned in by so-called sponsors, which were lined
    up by who? The NGO's. Through who? Primarily HHS. There is a
    pipeline, man. We fed a pipeline of tender-aged children into
    sex trafficking and slave labor into our country. We are
    finding these kids. We are tracking this fraudulent document.
        You are right, Ms. Hopper. My research showed a little bit
    less, 65 percent, you said, 70 percent. I will go with 70. So
    be advised, be advised, we are building out case files,
    criminal case files. We are interviewing these 35,000 kids and
    we are finding out exactly what the hell happened, how they
    ended up in the nightmare where they were, and we are rescuing
    more, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. We are
    going to identify these children. We are locating these
    children. We are rescuing these children. We are building out
    criminal files based upon the testimony of these young
    teenagers and the documentation of fraudulent vetting. Many of
    these NGO employees are going to find themselves wearing
    orange. It will be their new favorite color.
        Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the indulgence. I yield.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields.
        The Chair now recognizes Ranking Member Thompson for his 5
    minutes of questioning.
        Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Chairman, you and I both are from Mississippi, and we
    know all too well the sense of devastation and hopelessness
    experienced by disaster survivors. Many of the nonprofits the
    Majority is attacking today under your leadership are the very
    people who rush to support our constituents in their darkest
    days. It is a disappointing way to begin your tenure as
    Chairman if your conference does, in fact, select you for that
    post.
        Mr. Chairman, you have read the same reporting I have. You
    have heard the same whispers of concern about the
    administration's action decimating staff across the Department.
    And you have seen the horrific results of the Department's
    gross incompetence in just 6 short months. As the July 4th
    weekend began, the deadliest floods in Texas history were
    wreaking havoc in communities across the State. Over 130 people
    died, including nearly 30 campers and counselors at an all-
    girls Christian summer camp.
        Now, we know that because of Secretary Noem's policies,
    FEMA's urban search-and-rescue teams were not deployed until at
    least 72 hours after the flooding began and FEMA's Recovery
    Center contracts were allowed to collapse. Disaster survivors
    called FEMA for help, but it answered only 35 percent of their
    calls. As Texans suffered, Secretary Noem was posting glamour
    shots for her South Dakota official portrait on Instagram.
    Apparently Federal disaster response can wait, but Instagram
    posts cannot.
        President Reagan once said the 9 most terrifying words in
    the English language were, ``I'm from the Government and I'm
    here to help.'' Secretary Noem's DHS has proven that it is far
    scarier when you call the Government for help and no one
    answers.
        The Secretary has also allowed ICE to execute racist
    immigration raids, haphazardly rounding up Americans and
    migrants alike based on skin color, ethnicity, and the language
    someone speaks. She has defied court orders to halt deportation
    and timely returns wrongly deported individual. Worst of all,
    the Secretary has overseen the deportation of American citizen
    children, including a 4-year-old with cancer, which I suppose
    is something you might expect from someone who is proud of
    shooting her puppy in the face.
        The Secretary has empowered unqualified MAGA lackeys to
    manage critical anti-terrorism operation charged with
    protecting our communities from hate-filled violence. As we
    face increasingly sophisticated cyber threats, the Secretary
    has harassed nearly 1,000 cyber experts at CISA into quitting
    their jobs and eliminating its election security work because
    the President is still upset that he lost the 2020 election.
        Though she might have been reluctant to respond to the
    multiple oversight requests made by committee Democrats, she
    has managed to find time to go on television to gaslight the
    public. Secretary Noem has a lot of answers for Republicans who
    have impeached Cabinet secretaries for less for noting in fact.
    For those reasons, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of
    rule XI, I move that the committee subpoena Department of
    Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Lynn Noem.
        Mr. Guest. Does the gentleman yield back?
        Mr. Thompson. I yield.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back. Is there a motion?
        Mr. Gimenez. Move to table the motion.
        Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. The committee will
    suspend at this time.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman is recognized.
        Mr. Thompson. Parliamentary inquiry. Are we waiting on
    something?
        Mr. Guest. Waiting on Members to return to the committee
    room.
        Mr. Goldman. So will you entertain that request from the
    Minority when we don't have enough members to defeat a vote?
        Mr. Guest. It is going--the committee hearing at this point
    is in suspension per the rules. I have the ability to call us
    into suspension and that's where we are at this point.
        Mr. Goldman. No, I understand. I am just wondering if you
    are going to do it similarly and equally for the Minority or
    you are just going to make it for the Majority.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I know this is your maiden
    voyage, but there is a motion on the floor and you can't recess
    a motion because the Members are not here.
        Mr. Guest. The committee is not in recess, Ranking Member
    Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Well, that is what you said.
        Mr. Guest. I am sorry. The committee has been suspended.
        Mr. Thompson. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Yes, sir, Mr. Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. You know, there is a motion before the
    committee and I ask that my motion be acted on. You can't
    suspend it or do anything like that. That is not the rules.
        Mr. Chairman, the rules of this committee don't allow for
    it just to stop. I am just asking that we go forward with the
    motion.
        Mr. Guest. The Chair has already explained where we are at
    this point, Mr. Thompson. Until additional Members return to
    the chamber, we will not be moving forward.
        Mr. Thompson. You know, I am just saying that if we are
    following the rules of the committee, what you are doing is not
    in the rule.
        Mr. Guest. Your point has been made and is in the record
    that you do not feel that I am following the rules. That has
    been made clear, Mr. Thompson. So you can continue to make that
    and continue to put that in the record if you would like.
        Mr. Goldman. Can you cite to us what rule allows for you to
    suspend until Members return? Parliamentary inquiry.
        Mrs. McIver. The people, this is how we break rules all day
    here. Law and order, folks.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I asked a parliamentary inquiry.
        Mr. Guest. Yes, Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. Can you please cite the rule of the committee
    that allows you to suspend the hearing to wait for Members to
    come for a vote? I assume you want to follow the rules of the
    committee as the Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. As I understand, Mr. Goldman, it is at the
    Chair's discretion. I have used that discretion and I have
    suspended. I understand that you and Mr. Thompson and other
    Members may not be happy with that, but that is the decision I
    made.
        Mr. Goldman. No, I just want you to follow the rules.
    Simple question. I assume you want to follow the rules as the
    Acting Chairman. So, presumably, there is a rule that you can
    cite to that allows you to do this. There is no general
    discretion of the Chair to do whatever the Chair wants to do.
    That is not a rule in the House of Representatives.
        Mr. Guest. All right. At this time, the motion before the
    Chair is a motion to table. That motion to table is privileged.
    That motion is nondebatable.
        All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
    by saying aye.
        Any opposed, please signify by saying no.
        The Chair rules that the ayes have it and that the motion
    prevails.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. I am assuming that there is a request for a
    recorded vote. Is that correct, Mr. Thompson?
        Mr. Thompson. There is a request for a recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest. All right. There has been a request for a
    recorded vote. We will let our Clerk get situated. Mr. Clerk,
    would you please call the roll?
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Nay.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        Mr. Magaziner. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        Ms. Pou. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
        Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green.
        [No response.]
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chairman is not recorded.
        Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Are there other Members who wish to have their
    vote recorded or to change their vote?
        Seeing none, would the Clerk please report the tally of the
    vote?
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 12 ayes
    and 11 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion passes.
        Mr. Kennedy. Point of order. Can we please have the list of
    aye votes read to us, the Members that voted aye?
        The Clerk. The Members that voted aye are as follows: Mr.
    Higgins, Mr. Gimenez, Mr. Pfluger, Mr. Garbarino, Mr. Luttrell,
    Mr. Strong, Mr. Brecheen, Mr. Crane, Mr. Ogles, Mrs. Biggs, and
    Mr. Evans and Chairman Guest.
        Mr. Kennedy. Were all present to cast their votes?
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, were all present and cast their
    votes, to your knowledge?
        The Clerk. Yes, all were present in the room when they
    voted.
        Mr. Kennedy. Thank you.
        Mr. Guest. The Ranking Member has yielded back.
        At this time, I would recognize myself for my 5 minutes of
    questioning.
        I want to respond to some of the allegations contained in
    the Ranking Member's opening statement. Mr. Thompson, I am
    assuming that you didn't write that statement because you have
    known me for some period of time. I know you to be someone
    who--that I have a long-standing relationship with and do not
    believe that you would write an opening statement attacking
    mine or the Christianity of any other Member of this committee.
        I don't believe that you would weaponize my religious
    beliefs. I don't believe that you would criticize me because I
    choose to teach Sunday school in my church and to somehow say
    that because I am a Sunday School, because I am a Christian,
    that me being a part of this hearing somehow in some way flies
    in the face of my religious beliefs. Because what we are doing
    here today is we are not casting a broad net on every
    nongovernmental organization, every nonprofit. We are instead
    focusing this hearing on those who have profited off of the
    illegal immigration that we saw under the Biden-Harris
    administration.
        I have mentioned nothing in my statement about nonprofits
    such as Red Cross, Catholic Charities, Samaritan's Purse,
    Doctors Without Borders, nonprofits who actually take money and
    use it for the good, who are out there collecting money from
    their congregation, from members of the community who wish to
    give back. Instead, this hearing is focused on those handful of
    nonprofits who received their money almost exclusively from
    grants from the Federal Government, but yet still claim to be
    nonprofits.
        Ms. Hopper, you mentioned two of those in your written
    testimony, two that I referenced in my opening statement. Those
    two being Endeavors, who, according to my information that I
    received, Endeavors received 97 percent of their funding from
    Federal or local grants. They weren't out raising money. They
    weren't out there ringing the bell there at Christmas asking
    people to give money. They weren't in churches asking members
    of the congregation to please give to these organizations. They
    were instead an arm of the Federal Government in that they
    received 97 percent of their funding.
        Then Southwest Key properties was an NGO that blew past
    that: 99 percent of their funding came from grants from the
    Federal Government. What did these organizations do with that?
        You talk about in your testimony, Ms. Hopper, you talk
    about Endeavors, that in 2020, Endeavors reported $52 million
    in revenue. Then in 2021, they reported $658 million in
    revenue, a $600 million increase in a year, with 97 percent of
    that money coming from the Federal Government. Then in 2022,
    they reported a record $1.18 billion from the Federal
    Government, or at least 97 percent of that.
        You talk about how executives for Endeavor padded their
    pockets, that with this increase in revenue comes increase in
    salary, that the compensation for the CEO doubled. You talk
    about these particular CEOs that I mentioned instead of using
    that money to protect children, they were treating this money
    like venture capitalists. You also stated in there that an
    Endeavors individual, someone within their organization, said
    that the border crisis was a boom for business.
        In an article from the New York Post, they talk about
    another one of these nonprofits. They talk about Southwest Key.
    The headline says, ``Texas nonprofit housing migrant kids took
    3 billion in grants from Biden administration and boosted
    executive salaries up to 139 percent to pull the plug.''
        So I am offended when people from the other side say that
    we are not being Christian, that we don't want to help people.
    We are not saying that all nonprofits are bad. Many of us
    support and give money and volunteer to those. But this hearing
    today is focused on those nonprofits which were government-
    funded, which were used by the Biden-Harris administration to
    continue to move people across the border against the will of
    the public and without the authorization of Congress.
        So with that, I yield back.
        I now recognize my friend from California, Mr. Correa, for
    5 minutes for his questioning of the witnesses.
        Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do hope to continue
    to work with you as a friend here in this committee.
        I would also, though, want to point out that some of our
    witnesses have to be careful with the testimony. Mr. Rosas has
    pointed out Catholic Charities as being one of those
    organizations that received funding. I am a Catholic, kind-of
    disappointed in that.
        Mr. Rosas. Why?
        Mr. Correa. Because of what the Chairman said. This
    Catholic Charities does good work. You pointed out somebody who
    got money who did something that was unethical or illegal.
    Thank you.
        But Mr. Chairman, big job here of this committee is
    oversight. OK. Homeland Security's budget is doubled. The
    mission, as was pointed out some of the witnesses here today,
    was to go after undocumented criminals. Yet back home every day
    we are a peaceful, loving community. Masked ICE agents, no
    badge, no identification, grabbing people off the streets on
    the suspicion that they may be undocumented. Today, 70 percent
    of those apprehended undocumented are not criminals. They are
    hardworking taxpayers.
        Recently, a pastor in Florida that had been here for 20
    years with a stay of removal was arrested. All of you have
    known, told you the story, I will tell you again. Father, 25
    years, not a traffic ticket to his name, father of 3 Marines
    was apprehended. DHS recently raided a church in California,
    sanctuary. I thought we were supposed to go after criminals.
    What authority does DHS have to go after churches? Are these
    the right people? Not quite sure. Are we creating a national
    Federal police here with unlimited powers?
        You know, let's not talk about undocumented here. Let's
    talk about U.S. citizens. OK? Countless U.S. citizens being
    detained in this country. In my district, an attorney, woman,
    female, walking down Centennial Park, apprehended by ICE, did
    not touch, did not do anything offensive to the ICE agent, was
    arrested, put in a van with no windows, cuffed, taken to a
    detention center for hours. What are we coming to? Many stories
    like that. U.S. citizens being detained by ICE, not for a few
    hours, but for a few days. So a U.S. citizen speaking with an
    accent. U.S. citizens. Do I have to carry around a passport
    now? Do I have to tell children that are American citizens to
    have their ID and passports with them? Is that what we're
    coming to?
        Mr. Chairman, I want to work with you. Let's work on
    oversight, OK? A lot of these ICE agents, their performance are
    probably going to rely on that defense called qualified
    immunity when they do things like violate our Constitutional
    rights. What is our defense for not doing a job of oversight?
        Facial recognition technology now. Everybody now, citizens
    or not, U.S. citizens, facial recognition technology without
    your permission, without a warrant.
        We should, Mr. Chairman, today have Todd Lyons, acting
    director of ICE, come before this committee and explain what is
    going on. Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI,
    I move that the committee subpoena Mr. Todd Lyons, the acting
    director of ICE, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I move to table.
        Mr. Guest. There is a motion to table. Mr. Correa, do you
    yield back at this point?
        Mr. Correa. Yes.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentleman from Florida has moved to table. The motion
    is privileged and is nondebatable.
        All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
    by stating aye.
        Any opposed, signify by stating no.
        In the opinion of the Chair the ayes have it.
        Is there a request, Mr. Ranking Member?
        Mr. Correa. Recorded vote, sir.
        Mr. Guest. A request for Mr. Correa for a recorded vote. We
    will allow the Clerk a moment to--a recorded vote in this
    matter has been called.
        Mr. Clerk, if you would please call the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Nay.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        Ms. Pou. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
        Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        [No response.]
        Mr. Guest. Are there other Members who wish to have their
    vote recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans is not recorded.
        Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chair is not recorded.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chair, is Mr. Magaziner recorded?
        Mr. Guest. Is Mr. Magaziner recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner was not recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Magaziner, how would you like to be
    recorded? Mr. Magaziner is recorded as a no.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chair has not been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. The Clerk will report the total.
        The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 12 ayes
    and 11 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion is not successful. Excuse me, the
    motion is successful and is agreed to.
        At this point, I would recognize my friend from the State
    of Florida, Mr. Gimenez, for his 5 minutes of questioning.
        Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hopper, how many
    children do you think that DHS basically lost, didn't have
    track of during the 4 years of the Biden administration that
    were made into the United States?
        Ms. Hopper. The reports vary, but as of the last number
    that we were made aware of was over 325,000 children that went
    unaccounted for.
        Mr. Gimenez. Three hundred and twenty-five thousand
    children are not accounted for. So my colleagues on the other
    side don't want to speak about this hearing. They want nothing
    to do with this hearing. All right. Why? Because of the
    failure, and one of the greatest failures in American history,
    of the Biden administration, I believe, was in not keeping
    track of children. It wasn't like the folks that sit on the
    other side of this aisle weren't made aware by people sitting
    on this side of the aisle that it was happening. You know, they
    failed to do anything or speak out against really, this
    atrocity that was happening to the children that were coming
    through the border.
        So this hearing is about the enrichment of certain, you
    know, NGO's and their part in this tragedy. But also, one thing
    that we haven't talked about is really, not only did this
    administration enrich a lot of these NGO's, and I'm not
    painting them all the same. I'm Catholic and I'm a really good
    friend of our bishop in Miami. All right? You know, we have
    dinner and all that. So I know the great work that they do, but
    I know there's also bad apples in there.
        But also the billions of dollars that flowed to the Mexican
    cartels through human trafficking and all of it, all of it, and
    you heard, this is not the first time you're going to hear me
    say it, was done on purpose, because you can't be that stupid.
    You can't be that dumb.
        So the Biden administration allowed--lost track of 300,000
    people, children, right, probably lost track of millions of
    other people, migrants, you know, in the United States as they
    were being trafficked all around, some indentured servants, the
    children indentured servants and, even worse, in sex trade, all
    done on purpose. That has to be one of the biggest scandals in
    American history. That's why my colleagues on the other side
    are running for the hills. But you can run, but you can't hide
    and you can't justify the inexcusable. It's not like we didn't
    tell them. It wasn't like I wasn't here for 4 years telling
    them, hey, this is happening and it's done on purpose. A lot of
    my colleagues here were doing the same thing, and they just ran
    away. Now they're trying to say, well, I don't want to talk
    about this. I don't want to talk about what we're talking about
    today.
        So what we're trying to guess bring to light is we want to
    make sure this never happens again. Yes, we need to bring it to
    light right now because it wasn't going to be brought to light
    under the Biden administration, all right, and make sure that
    it never happens again. I thank God that we have President
    Trump in office who has controlled the border. So the cartels
    aren't getting richer by the minute using human trafficking,
    and that our children--those children are not being exploited.
        So, again, what can we do to make sure this never happens
    again, Ms. Hopper?
        Ms. Hopper. Thank you for your question. I actually had
    compiled a couple of policy recommendations. Now there are more
    than what--that I can provide. But first of all, we need to
    initiate forensic audits of all ORR contracts over $100 million
    and potentially suspend funding until completed, along with
    implementing full clawback provisions for unspent funds and
    mandate independent Federal oversight, standardized tracking,
    and thorough home studies for UAC placements.
        Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. I hope that we as a committee can
    take those recommendations and put them into legislation. I
    hope it would be a bipartisan effort, because what's happening
    to those children is definitely a crime.
        Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        Mr. Kennedy. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Point of order.
        Mr. Guest. Point of order.
        Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. I ask unanimous consent to include
    into the record this Republican press release from this
    committee saying that Catholic Charities and the U.S.
    Conference of Catholic Bishops is, in fact, under
    investigation.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be admitted.
        [The information follows:]
               Press Release Submitted by Hon. Timothy M. Kennedy
                                 June 11, 2025
        This week, House Committee on Homeland Security Chairman Mark E.
    Green, MD (R-TN) and Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and
    Accountability Chairman Josh Brecheen (R-OK) launched a probe into more
    than 200 non-governmental organizations (NGO's) that were involved in
    providing services or support to inadmissible aliens during the Biden-
    Harris administration's historic border crisis.
        The Chairmen are examining whether these NGO's used taxpayer
    dollars to facilitate illegal activity, as the previous administration
    incentivized millions of inadmissible aliens to cross our borders--many
    of whom were subsequently aided by NGO's after being released at the
    border under the Biden-Harris administration's mass catch-and-release
    policies. Most recently, one recipient of the letter, the Coalition for
    Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA), has been linked to the far-left,
    anti-law enforcement riots in Los Angeles. Another recipient of the
    letter, Southwest Key Programs, received more than $3 billion under the
    previous administration to provide services, including the
    transportation and housing of unaccompanied alien children. Read the
    full letter to CHIRLA here.\1\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/2025-06-
    10-Green-Brecheen-to-Salas-CHIRLA-re-Federal-Funding.pdf.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        In the letter, the Chairmen request each NGO complete a survey that
    includes questions on the Government grants, contracts, and
    disbursements they have received; any lawsuits against the U.S. Federal
    Government they are petitioning; amicus briefs they have filed in any
    lawsuit brought against the U.S. Federal Government; any legal service,
    translation service, transportation, housing, sheltering, or any other
    form of assistance provided to illegal immigrants or unaccompanied
    alien children since January 2021; and more.
        In each letter, the Chairmen write, ``To respond to unprecedented
    surges of illegal immigrants between January 20, 2021, and January 20,
    2025, the Federal Government outsourced a much greater share of its
    migrant response to NGO's, increasing NGO revenues while placing the
    burden of the Biden Administration's policies on American taxpayers.
    Under the Biden Administration, the Department of Homeland Security
    (DHS) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) funneled
    billions of dollars to NGO's to provide material support, including
    transportation, translation services, and housing, to illegal aliens
    throughout the United States. The Biden Administration's reliance on
    NGO's therefore created a pull factor by signaling to those who arrived
    illegally or without proper documentation that they could expect such
    assistance, all expensed to American taxpayers, once they arrived in
    the United States.''
        The Chairmen continue, ``Meanwhile, these same NGO's saw their
    annual revenues rise significantly. For example, it was reported that
    three prominent NGO's that assisted illegal aliens made a combined $597
    million in revenue in 2019, while in 2022 those NGO's enjoyed a
    combined revenue of $2 billion. Further, the Committee is concerned
    that some of these NGO's may currently be actively advising and
    training illegal aliens on strategies to avoid cooperation with
    immigration officials. An undercover video recently exposed one NGO,
    which receives 55 percent of its revenue from Federal and State
    government grants, for training illegal aliens to avoid or potentially
    impede immigration officials.''
        The Chairmen conclude, ``The Committee is also deeply troubled by
    the near-total lack of accountability for how these dollars are being
    spent by NGO's. In March 2023, the DHS Office of Inspector General
    (OIG) reported an audit of how NGO's spent millions of dollars received
    from the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Ultimately, the
    government watchdog could not account for more than half of the funding
    it had audited, due to lack of proper documentation by these groups.''
        A few of the NGO's that received this letter:
       Catholic Charities USA
       Council on American-Islamic Relations
       Haitian Bridge Alliance
       U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
       The Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights (CHIRLA)
       Global Refuge
       Southwest Key Programs
       Endeavors
       Make the Road New York
                                   background
        The committee's Phase One report into the Biden-Harris
    administration's border crisis, published in July 2023, found that from
    the early days of the crisis in 2021 to the end of the previous
    administration, DHS released inadmissible aliens to a vast network of
    NGO's, particularly those located at the border, who then provided
    logistical support to inadmissible aliens. These groups received
    billions of taxpayer dollars from DHS to provide all manner of services
    to illegal aliens once they were released from U.S. Customs and Border
    Protection (CBP) or Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) custody,
    including food, lodging, and transportation to the destination of their
    choice. In 2022, ICE told Fox News that it was transporting these
    individuals ``to airports and transit hubs, and coordinat[ing] with
    non-governmental organizations to provide migrants with shelter, food,
    clothing and transport.''
        The Government Accountability Office (GAO) left no doubt about the
    Federal Government's collaboration with NGO's at the Southwest Border,
    per a report issued April 19, 2023. In the study, the GAO notes, ``When
    releasing these noncitizens into the U.S., DHS components such as CBP
    and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement may coordinate with
    nonprofit organizations that provide services such as food, shelter,
    and transportation.'' One groundbreaking study in 2022 used mobile-
    device data to show that NGO's are serving as a launching pad for
    illegal aliens to disperse throughout the country.
        In April, Chairmen Green and Brecheen sent a letter to the Chinese-
    American Planning Council (CPC) in response to a video reportedly
    showing employees of the NGO--which has been awarded over $1 million in
    taxpayer funding since 2022--advising illegal aliens on how to evade
    apprehension by ICE. The NGO has allegedly received funding from
    Chinese government-backed entities that are linked to the Chinese
    Communist Party (CCP), according to new reports.
        In March, Chairmen Green and Brecheen were joined by Subcommittee
    on Emergency Management and Technology Chairman Dale Strong (R-AL) in
    sending letters to the mayors of New York City, Los Angeles, and
    Chicago, investigating whether Federal funds were given to entities
    engaged in or facilitating illegal activities during the Biden-Harris
    administration's historic border crisis. The committee suspects that
    funds awarded, obligated, or distributed under the Shelter and Services
    Program (SSP) helped incentivize illegal immigration.
        In October 2023, Chairman Green and then-Chairman of the
    Subcommittee on Oversight, Investigations, and Accountability Dan
    Bishop sent 2 letters documenting the committee's deepening
    investigation into suspicious contracts awarded by ICE that were
    facilitated by ICE official Claire Trickler-McNulty and her former
    colleague, Andrew Lorenzen-Strait.
        In August 2023, Lorenzen-Strait admitted in an undercover video
    that he used his previous connections with former President Joe Biden's
    2020 transition team to help facilitate sole-source, no-bid contracts
    to the non-profit group Endeavors--for which Lorenzen-Strait went to
    work in January 2021 as senior director for migrant services and
    Federal affairs--to provide services to illegal aliens. Despite having
    no experience as lead contractor for such shelter services, Endeavors
    ultimately received more than $600 million in contracts from DHS and
    HHS. Lorenzen-Strait later left the organization in September 2022.
        Trickler-McNulty was the ICE official in charge of approving or
    terminating contracts involving new alien detention facilities and
    Alternatives to Detention (ATD) programs, and she has prior
    professional relationships with anti-enforcement groups. The Chairmen
    demanded answers from Mr. Lorenzen-Strait and were joined by then-
    Chairman of the Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcement Clay
    Higgins (R-LA) in demanding answers from then-Acting ICE Director
    Patrick J. Lechleitner on the concerning reports of impropriety and
    suspected anti-enforcement bias at senior levels in the agency.

        Mr. Guest. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from the
    State of Michigan, Dr. Thanedar, for his 5 minutes of
    questions.
        Mr. Thanedar. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking
    Member.
        Today I speak as a representative of the American people
    who desire accountability, transparency, and integrity. My
    Republican colleagues on this committee continue to discuss
    fabricated allegations and are intimidating NGO's, a step
    straight out of the authoritarian playbook. If they want to
    investigate fraud, waste, and abuse, this committee should
    instead focus on DHS Inspector General Joseph Cuffari's failure
    to uphold his office's core principles of accountability,
    transparency, and integrity.
        The position of Inspector General is a vital one. IGs are
    tasked with ensuring the agency they oversee remains honest and
    lawful. During a period when the DHS is riddled with
    incompetence and abuse of law, the Inspector General is ever so
    important. However, it is clear that Mr. Cuffari is incapable
    of holding DHS responsible due to his own disregard for
    accountability.
        IG Cuffari misused 1.4 million in taxpayer dollars by
    hiring a private law firm to investigate his own employees in
    retaliation for their criticism of his qualifications. He
    ultimately had to pay one of those employees 1.7 million
    settlement. Inspector Generals are supposed to protect
    whistleblowers from retaliation, not be the source of
    retaliation.
        The IG misrepresented himself during his confirmation
    process by failing to disclose when asked that at the time of
    his retirement from the Justice Department, he was under
    investigation by the DOJ's Office of Inspector General for
    ethics violations. Furthermore, he provided inaccurate and
    misleading answers with respect to possible misconduct when he
    was a Federal law enforcement officer. We also know that Mr.
    Cuffari routinely deleted text messages from his own
    Government-issued phone, a violation of Federal recordkeeping
    laws. Last, he continuously obstructed this committee's work to
    by refusing to respond to inquiries and blocking his employees
    from appearing for transcribed interviews.
        Investigating all of these controversies, the Council of
    Inspector General on Integrity and Efficiency, an office then
    run by a Trump-appointed Inspector General, found that Mr.
    Cuffari had abused his authority and engaged in substantial
    misconduct, recommending that President Biden fire him. Mr.
    Cuffari's tenure as Inspector General has been marked by fraud,
    waste, and abuse. He has rendered the very watchdog office
    meant to protect DHS from abuse and mismanagement untrustworthy
    and inefficient. For the sake of accountability and for the
    sake of public trust in Government, this committee must demand
    more from the Inspector General and hold him responsible.
        Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move
    that the committee subpoena DHS Inspector General Joseph V.
    Cuffari to appear before this committee to provide sworn
    testimony and to produce all relevant documents regarding his
    performance as the DHS Inspector General.
        With that----
        Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chair, I move to table.
        Mr. Thanedar [continuing]. I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back. There has been a
    motion from Mr. Gimenez from Florida to table, the gentleman
    that moves the table. That motion is privileged and is
    nondebatable.
        All those in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
        All those opposed, signify by saying no.
        The ruling of the Chair is that the ayes prevail.
        Is there a motion for a recorded vote? Dr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. Yes. Yes.
        Mr. Guest. A motion for a recorded vote has been made. If
    we will take a moment to allow the Clerk to return to his
    position.
        Would the Clerk please call the roll?
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans. Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. No.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        Ms. Pou. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
        Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        [No response.]
        Mr. Swalwell. How am I recorded?
        The Clerk. I am sorry, I didn't see who the request was
    from.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Swalwell.
        The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell is not recorded.
        Mr. Swalwell. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chair has not been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. The Chair votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to be
    recorded?
        Mr. Higgins. How is Higgins recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins was not recorded.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Any additional Members who wish to be recorded
    on this vote?
        The Clerk will tally and report the totals.
        The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 13 ayes
    and 11 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion is agreed to.
        At this time, the Chair would recognize for 5 minutes of
    his questioning Mr. Pfluger from the great State of Texas.
        Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Never been so
    disappointed to sit in a partisan hearing. I mean, what a joke.
        Let me just correct the record for the gentleman from
    Mississippi talking about the floods in Texas and FEMA not
    being there. False. Completely false. They were there. I don't
    think the Ranking Member was there. I was there. Several people
    on this committee were there. So the assertion that FEMA was
    not there, you want to politicize something, go politicize
    something else, but that is out of bounds. What a tragedy. To
    try to take advantage of that in this space, the Homeland
    Security space, formed after 9/11, what a tragic statement to
    make. I mean, of all the things. We kind-of knew the
    politicization was coming, but for it to happen in this
    committee. The Secretary was there multiple times. FEMA
    director was engaged everywhere. People on this committee were
    recovering and searching for bodies. I am just shocked, totally
    shocked at that statement.
        You know, where else my colleagues on the other side of the
    aisle were not? They weren't at the border for the last 4
    years. I was there. I would like to seek unanimous consent to
    submit for the record 2 videos from the Darien Gap from a CODEL
    in 2023, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection.*
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        * The videos are retained in committee files and they are available
    upon request.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mr. Pfluger. These videos show the children that are
    walking through. Only one Democrat accepted the offer to go to
    that CODEL, to go see first-hand. Only one. The entire
    subcommittee was invited and yet only one and he is no longer a
    Member. Only one. You know how many hearings we had at the
    border from 2021 and 2022? Zero. You know how many hearings we
    had on border security from 2021 to 2022? Zero. So it is pretty
    rich to hear the assertions from the gentleman from Mississippi
    that the FEMA director is not involved in flooding. The DHS is
    not involved in flooding.
        Ms. Hopper, in your testimony, you talk about unprecedented
    trafficking due to lack of sponsor vetting, and you also talk
    about alarming conditions and falsified records. I am going to
    give you 2 minutes to describe the lack of sponsor vetting that
    led to the abuse of children at a level that is completely
    unprecedented. Be specific.
        Ms. Hopper. Thank you for your time. When we're talking
    about sponsor vetting, when I spoke with a retired Border
    Patrol agent, he had said that the requirements to adopt a dog
    that was about to be euthanized were higher than the standards
    and the documents that needed to be provided for an adult to
    sponsor a child. He went through more hoops to adopt a dog than
    what people would go through to sponsor a child. When it only
    takes 2 phone calls to verify that someone picks up on the
    other line, voice verification, or you receive a photograph of
    an identification through WhatsApp with no facial match to the
    person sending the photograph; when people talk about doing
    better job in photoshop with fake IDs than what the documents
    they received in a picture of an ID. No meaningful background
    checks on these sponsors, when you have children that are
    unaccompanied, and as a mother, as a Christian, as a Hispanic,
    you have children being sent to known pedophiles, known gang
    members, known individuals with criminal backgrounds, that is
    what led to this.
        Mr. Pfluger. Thank you. Every single person that was on
    this committee from 2021 to the end of President Biden's
    presidency went to the border multiple times, multiple times,
    and saw these atrocities that were happening first-hand, talked
    to these kids, saw the ones that were left in the brush. So
    it's pretty rich to say that we shouldn't be looking at NGO's
    that had a role, that were culpable and complicit in not
    vetting people or not doing the appropriate work.
        Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you for holding this
    hearing. I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr.
    Swalwell.
        Mr. Swalwell. Nobody asked for the cruel deportations that
    we are seeing right now. We were promised that violent
    criminals, the worst in our community, would be removed. I am
    good with that. I don't want violent criminals who are
    undocumented in our community. I will help with that. Put out a
    list of a thousand people, most Americans are up for getting
    those folks out of our community. We were promised the worst
    would be removed.
        What we have found is that rather than focusing on the
    worst offenders in our community, this administration arrested
    a 6-year-old battling leukemia and detained that 6-year-old in
    the cruelest, harshest conditions. ICE detained a 6-year-old
    leukemia patient and his family even though they followed every
    immigration rule. In detention, the children cried every night
    according to the family's attorney. The woman's 6-year-old son
    also experienced bruising and bone pain, both symptoms of
    leukemia, and missed an appointment related to his cancer
    treatment. His sister barely ate.
        Don't give me this Christian nonsense that I have heard
    from some of these witnesses. I am a Christian, I am a father,
    I am from a law enforcement family. I was a prosecutor. This is
    not who we are. This is not what any American signed up for.
        This administration deported a 4-year-old American citizen
    battling cancer. They arrested a U.S. marshal. They are not up
    for this job. They are just up for the cruelty, for owning the
    libs. They are not serious about protecting our communities
    from the worst.
        These ICE agents running around our communities like masked
    bank robbers, terrorizing women, they are going to get
    themselves hurt, and I hope that doesn't happen. We are already
    seeing women are being targeted by people who are impersonating
    ICE agents. I hope every State that is able to and every
    community that is able to unmasks ICE with their policies. If
    you are standing on the law, you can show your face.
        The FBI, they are probably doing a search-and-seizure right
    now at some dangerous criminal's home. They are not masked.
    They loudly on their blue jackets have that yellow insignia
    that says FBI. No other law enforcement agency in America runs
    around our communities masked. It is time that we unmask ICE.
        This is an administration that does not want to be held
    accountable. Secretary Noem does not want to come in and
    testify. Stephen Miller certainly doesn't want to sit in that
    chair and defend putting this 6-year-old battling leukemia into
    deportation proceedings. Tom Homan doesn't want to come here
    and defend why he thinks it is OK to target people based on
    their accent and the color of their skin. Yes, he said that.
    Thankfully, a California court has shut that down and,
    hopefully, more lawsuits are brought across America to shut
    that down.
        But my Republican colleagues in Congress, they don't work
    for the administration. They are, theoretically, an independent
    branch of Government, Article 1, the preeminent branch of
    Government. So why do they go for this? Why do they enable
    this? Why aren't they outraged that this 6-year-old boy was in
    a condition where children are crying every night and
    experiencing bone pain as he fights cancer?
        This issue is pretty simple. Go after the worst and protect
    the most vulnerable, the ones who are contributing to our
    community. So if our Republican colleagues are not up for
    holding the administration accountable, then Democrats will.
        So, Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I
    move that the committee subpoena White House Deputy Chief of
    Staff for Policy and Homeland Security Advisor Stephen Miller.
        Mr. Guest. Does the gentleman yield back?
        Mr. Swalwell. Yes.
        Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
        Mr. Higgins. Motion to table.
        Mr. Guest. There has been a motion to table.
        Mr. Swalwell. Recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman moves the motion to table. The
    motion to table is privileged and nondebatable.
        All those in favor of the motion to table, please signify
    by saying aye.
        Any opposed, no.
        The ruling of the Chair is the ayes have it.
        Mr. Swalwell----
        Mr. Swalwell. Recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest [continuing]. Is there a motion for a recorded
    vote? A motion for a recorded vote has been made. We will allow
    the Clerk a moment to resume his position.
        The Clerk will call the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
        Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. No.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        Mr. Swalwell. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
        Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        Mr. Magaziner. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Goldman.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
        Mr. Goldman has not been recorded.
        Mr. Goldman. No, sir.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how is the Chair recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chair has not yet been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Chair votes aye.
        The Clerk. The Chairman votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to have
    their vote recorded? If not, the Clerk will report the total to
    the committee.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 14 ayes
    and 12 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion is passed at this time.
        The Chair would recognize the gentleman from the great
    State of New York, Mr.--oh, I am sorry. At this time, we would
    recognize the gentleman from the great State of Texas, Mr.
    Luttrell, for his questioning.
        Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I am going to point out Mr. Swalwell's point about that
    young man, and I don't know the information on it, that he was
    detained. We have to do a better job. You know, here on this
    committee, as far as oversight goes, there are multiple
    problems that I see. We should do our absolute best in the
    Department to not make mistakes. The number of 325,000 missing
    children is a problem. We shouldn't have that problem.
        My question is to Mr. Howell and Ms. Hopper. When those
    babies came across the border and were touched by Homeland
    Security and then passed on to an NGO, I would think that the
    NGO should have responsibility of knowing where those children
    went, correct?
        Ms. Hopper. They should.
        Mr. Luttrell. Are we aware whether or not the NGO's have
    records of who took those children into custody? Because I
    would think that we should have the NGO's also in front of us
    answering those questions so we can find those children.
        Ms. Hopper. They should.
        Mr. Luttrell. Do they?
        Ms. Hopper. That would be a great question for the NGO's.
        Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Howell.
        Mr. Howell. Congressman, in litigation, we have sued the
    Department for record sets kept by the NGO's that the
    Department has access to. Those record sets do not have a lot
    of information. That is by design. It is why the Government
    offloads this responsibility to nonprofits so they don't have
    to answer your tough questions and have custody of this
    derogatory information.
        Mr. Luttrell. So to clarify your statement, NGO's are not
    to be held accountable for data aggregation on children that
    they move from their--through their organization into custody
    of someone else?
        Mr. Howell. They absolutely should be held accountable.
        Mr. Luttrell. I know they should be, but are you saying
    that they are or are not?
        Mr. Howell. Are not.
        Mr. Luttrell. And that is in the language that has been
    created for NGO's to get Government grants?
        Mr. Howell. Correct. There are obligations on the recipient
    of grants to keep statistics, information, et cetera, and all
    sorts of other legal obligations that are upon them.
        Ms. Hopper. To add to that, they have a contractual
    accountability. But aside from contractual accountability, it
    ends there.
        Mr. Luttrell. What you got?
        Mr. Rosas. Well, that's exactly the problem, because it's
    not just the fact that we had this massive volume of people and
    so things are obviously going to slip through the cracks.
    There's no way to really figure out exactly how many they ran
    through or how many they processed, because, like Border Patrol
    at the time, and Customs, they were overwhelmed because people
    had a greater incentive to arrive illegally because of the
    policies pursued by the Biden-Harris administration.
        Mr. Luttrell. So to my understanding for this committee and
    moving forward, we need to make sure that legislation states
    properly that any NGO, whether or not be it the Catholic
    organization or whomever, has to follow certain guidelines and
    rules which obviously that is not in place. Correct? In order
    for us to maintain accountability for any and all who come
    through our border, child, whomever, into the United States of
    America, we need to know exactly where they are at all times.
    Correct?
        Ms. Hopper. It should be tied in the contract along with
    the grant money that it is outlined who is responsible for the
    data collection and management, whether it's HHS or the NGO's.
    If the NGO's are responsible, it needs to outline the
    requirements and the expectations of how to maintain.
        Mr. Luttrell. So DHS needs to provide those, those
    standards to any NGO. Those NGO's need to have those standards
    passed on to anybody that is receiving a child.
        Ms. Hopper. If they're accepting the grant dollars.
        Mr. Luttrell. Correct. So that is our next step. I would
    say that is pretty simple. Right?
        Mr. Howell. I would say the simpler solution is to stop
    funding the invasion of the United States. We can impose the
    standards.
        Mr. Luttrell. I don't--OK. I got you, buddy. I am trying to
    go granular on this. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I am
    trying to fix a problem that exists. We can bitch about it all
    day long, which we are just going to beat each other up and we
    are not going to go anywhere. I am really trying to fix this
    problem. OK? So we have to move legislatively in order to solve
    that problem.
        Mr. Howell. Right. H.R. 2 contains a provision which would
    do a lot of that. It could also be improved.
        Mr. Luttrell. OK. So my next step as Congressional Member
    is to write a legislation that both sides would agree on in
    order to fix this problem. That sounds like a pretty good fix.
    Correct?
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Mr. Higgins [presiding]. The gentlemen yields.
        Mr. Goldman is recognized for questioning.
        Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Here we are again La-La-Land and Homeland Security
    Committee conducting oversight of the President and his
    administration. Great. Because there are many, many things that
    Congress should be conducting oversight over this
    administration. Donald Trump campaigned on finding convicted
    criminals who are unlawfully here in this country and deporting
    them. The worst of the worst, he said. Instead, he and his
    unidentified, masked secret ICE agents are snatching and
    arresting immigrants from court proceedings, nonviolent,
    noncriminal immigrants pursuing legal pathways to immigrate to
    this country, and then illegally detaining them in horrific
    conditions and even possibly deporting them despite the fact
    that they are here legally.
        You would think the committee with jurisdiction over the
    Department of Homeland Security would want to conduct oversight
    over the Department's refusal to allow Members of Congress to
    observe the conditions of DHS detention facilities. In fact,
    there is a specific statute that authorizes both Republicans
    and Democrats to conduct oversight over facilities that house
    or detain immigrants. But no, the Department refuses. So we are
    here in the Homeland Security Committee and I am sure the
    Republican Majority of does not like it when this
    administration undermines its own authority, its own statutory
    authority to conduct oversight.
        But no, instead of all of that, we are here talking yet
    again about Joe Biden. News flash: Joe Biden is not the
    President. He hasn't been the President for 7 months. So if we
    are going to conduct oversight here, why are we doing it about
    the Biden administration when this administration is literally
    detaining lawful permanent residents and even some U.S.
    citizens?
        It gets worse. It is not just those masked ICE agents.
    There are many FBI agents who are being called away from their
    duties to investigate terrorism, violent gangs, child
    trafficking, and other crimes in order to help ICE arrest and
    detain immigrants with legal asylum claims, nonviolent. That
    makes our homeland less safe, not more safe. So we should hear
    from FBI Director Kash Patel about how many of his criminal
    investigators are being taken away from their criminal
    investigatory jobs keeping Americans safe in order to help
    round up noncriminal immigrants trying to immigrate the right
    way.
        Some of these detainees are being held in Bureau of
    Prisons' detention centers that are unfit for convicted
    criminals to stay in. We should hear from Pam Bondi about how
    much of the Department's resources are being used to detain
    these nonviolent, noncriminal immigration detainees.
        While they are here, we can ask them about a very pressing:
    what is going on with the Epstein files? Donald Trump promised
    to release them. Pam Bondi said she had the files on her desk
    and that she was going to release them in the name of
    transparency. Kash Patel has spent years railing against the
    FBI to release the files. Many of my Republican colleagues were
    banging on the table to release the Epstein files. But now, all
    of a sudden, after a months-long review, Bondi and Patel say
    nothing to see here. No evidence that any American would want
    to see about accomplices, co-conspirators, or other people
    involved.
        Yesterday, the Republicans voted against releasing the
    files. So what has changed? Well, we all know Donald Trump had
    a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He flew on his plane, he
    hung out in parties, spoke highly of him. Now there are many
    people saying that Donald Trump is included in the Epstein
    files. In fact, there are reporters who say that there are
    videos of him with topless women. Elon Musk even confirmed that
    Trump is blocking the release of these files because he is in
    them. Pam Bondi says there is nothing there. But Donald Trump
    even acknowledges that there is evidence there. It is just not
    credible. It is made up.
        This is a Truth Social post from 9:43 this morning. It is
    an admission that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and the
    American people deserve to know whether he is or not.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
    Garbarino is recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I would--pursuant to clause
    2(k)(6) of rule XI----
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman is not recognized. Your time has
    expired.
        Mr. Goldman. I have a motion, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. Mr. Garbarino, you are recognized for
    questioning.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, I have a motion.
        Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a motion?
        Mr. Goldman. Pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move
    that the committee subpoena Pam Bondi, Attorney General of the
    United States, and Kash Patel, the Director of the Federal
    Bureau of Investigation.
        Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, motion to table.
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a motion?
        Mr. Garbarino. Motion to table.
        Mr. Higgins. Motion to table is privileged and
    nondebatable.
        I shall ask all those in favor of the motion to table say
    aye.
        All those opposed?
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it and the
    motion to table is agreed to.
        Mr. Goldman. Can I have a recorded vote, please?
        Mr. Higgins. A recorded vote is requested. The Clerk shall
    call to roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. No.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        Mr. Swalwell. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
        Mr. Correa.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
        Mr. Goldman. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes no.
        Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes no.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        Mr. Hernandez. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez votes no.
        Ms. Pou.
        Ms. Pou. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes no.
        Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
        Mr. Correa. Am I recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa is not recorded.
        Mr. Correa. Vote no.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Guest. How am I recorded?
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest is not recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Chair votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Higgins. Is any other Member not recorded?
        Mrs. Biggs. Biggs votes aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, what are we waiting for?
        Mr. Higgins. I am sorry, sir?
        Mr. Goldman. What are we waiting for?
        Mr. Higgins. We are waiting for all Members to complete
    voting, sir.
        Mr. Goldman. We have all Members who have completed votes,
    Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. I am sorry, sir?
        Mr. Goldman. We would like to call the question and have
    the vote tallied. All Members who are present have voted.
        Mr. Higgins. Your request is heard and denied. We are
    waiting for Members to return to the chamber to vote.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. Yes, Mr. Ranking Member.
        Mr. Thompson. We went through this once, but that is not in
    the rule.
        Mr. Higgins. It is kind of you to have that opinion, Mr.
    Ranking Member, but I am the Chairman and we are going to wait
    till Members return for the vote. You guys are pushing a button
    on these procedural votes. It is not on the agenda. It was not
    discussed prior to this hearing. We are going to give all
    Members of both sides ample time to return to the chamber and
    cast their vote. That is the end of that debate.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman. For the record----
        Mr. Higgins. Perhaps it is not.
        Mr. Thompson [continuing]. The committee didn't even give
    notice of this hearing. So you are talking about engaging?
        Mr. Higgins. I am quite certain that the committee is
    within the parameters of the rules of the House and the
    committee. Mr. Ranking Member, you have been on the committee
    longer than most of us have been----
        Mr. Thompson. That is why I am trying to----
        Mr. Higgins [continuing]. An adult.
        Mr. Thompson [continuing]. Explain the rules to you.
        Mr. Higgins. I am pretty sure you know the rules. We are
    following the rules.
        Mr. Goldman. Which rule are you following, Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Higgins. You are the attorney, sir. You can look up the
    rules. I can tell you that I have high confidence that this
    committee, the staff of this committee is following every rule
    and the parameters shall be continued. We will wait for Members
    to return to the chambers. This happens all the time. This is
    not new. This happens in every committee. When procedural votes
    are called Members have excused themselves after their
    questioning to handle our business. They have to return to the
    chamber. We will allow that for the Democrats. We will allow it
    for the Republicans. That is fair.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, we have never asked to wait on
    to vote. We never have.
        Mr. Higgins. Well, did anyone tell you to ask, Mr. Ranking
    Member? Because that is----
        Mr. Thompson. Yes, it is not in the rules of the committee.
        Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Generally a rule.
        Mr. Thompson. It is not the rules of the committee.
        Mr. Higgins. OK. Well, you are welcome to have that
    opinion. But I state again that the committee is operating
    within the parameters of the rules of the House and the
    committee. I have the gavel.
        Mr. Goldman. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. I have the gavel and I have the right to keep
    the vote open until Members have returned from across campus to
    cast an important vote.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. This is not new. It is historically accurate
    and traditional in Congress.
        Mr. Goldman. That is not true, Mr. Chairman. It is never
    done in this committee and other committees have specific rules
    that allow for the Chairman to do this. This committee does not
    have that rule. We are simply asking if you are doing this
    pursuant to the rules of the House or the committee that you
    simply point us to the rule that allows you to do this. Because
    if you are now ruling as Chairman without the authority of the
    rules, we have a whole different issue.
        Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, point of order.
        Mr. Higgins. Point of order to the gentleman, Mr.
    Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. This committee existed before the gentleman
    from New York was a Member of Congress. I was in the Minority
    back here in 2021. Some of my colleagues did. The Ranking
    Member who was Chairman at that time repeatedly held votes open
    when they were not--for Members to return here to vote, not
    because----
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields?
        Mr. Garbarino [continuing]. They were for one way or
    another, but for Members to get back on procedural motions. I
    have experienced it. When I was the Member Minority, Members
    were allowed ample time to return from unscheduled votes in
    this committee. Thank you.
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman yields. The gentlemen is----
        Mr. Thompson. The gentlemen from New York. Since you----
        Mr. Higgins. Is the Ranking Member asking----
        Mr. Thompson. Yes.
        Mr. Higgins [continuing]. To be recognized?
        Mr. Thompson. Obviously, Mr. Garbarino, that is not true.
    When did that happen? When did that happen?
        Mr. Higgins. The Ranking Member is not recognized.
        Does Mrs. McIver wish to be recognized?
        Mr. Thompson. No, I am still talking.
        Mr. Higgins. You haven't been recognized.
        Mr. Thompson. You recognized me.
        Mr. Higgins. Would you like--I did not.
        Mr. Thompson. You did.
        Mr. Higgins. You want me to recognize you now? You are
    recognized now.
        Mr. Thompson. Obviously, I was talking to you already, Mr.
    Garbarino, because I had been recognized.
        Mr. Garbarino. Yes.
        Mr. Thompson. But that is not true. That is factually not
    true, what you said.
        Mr. Garbarino. That is--I don't recall the date, but I
    recall it happening. I recall votes being held open. So because
    whether there were other votes or other committees, there was
    procedural motions. There were also markups where votes were
    held open or sometimes delayed.
        Mr. Thompson. I reclaim my time. Look, all this is just
    delaying till somebody gets here. Mr. Chairman, the rules are
    the rules. For you to try to make them up as you go, that is
    not how you do it.
        Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. Does the gentleman yield?
        Mr. Magaziner. How am I recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner has not been recorded.
        Mr. Magaziner. I asked to be recorded as a no.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Goldman. Mr. Chairman, while we wait, can I introduce a
    UC request?
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman has a unanimous consent request.
    You are recognized.
        Mr. Goldman. I would move to introduce a Truth Social post
    from Donald Trump from 9:43 a.m. railing against----
        Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, we are in the middle of a
    vote. I don't think you can entertain a UC request.
        Mr. Higgins. All right. I am advised, although quite
    generous with recognizing my colleagues across the aisle here,
    it is contrary specifically to the rules for you to introduce
    unanimous consent. Will the gentleman let us close this vote
    out? We are happy to recognize you.
        Mr. Goldman. Of course. I am happy to agree.
        Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. Trying to be polite.
        Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman, given that there seem to be
    some attendance issues, at least on the Republican side, I move
    that the committee do now adjourn.
        Mr. Higgins. There is an open vote right now. You are
    welcome to make a motion to adjourn after we close this vote.
        Mr. Magaziner. Mr. Chairman, point of order. A motion to
    adjourn is the highest privilege. So it would supersede----
        Mr. Higgins. I am not doing an open vote.
        Mr. Magaziner. It would supersede----
        Mr. Higgins. Motion to adjourn----
        Mr. Magaziner [continuing]. An open vote.
        Mr. Higgins. If you continue with your motion and enter
    your motion, after we have closed this vote the Chair will
    entertain that.
        Mr. Magaziner. But parliamentary----
        Mr. Higgins. Right now----
        Mr. Magaziner. Can I make a----
        Mr. Higgins [continuing]. This vote is open and is going to
    remain open until Members----
        Mr. Magaziner. Chairman, can I ask a question?
        Mr. Higgins [continuing]. Have been allowed to return.
        Mr. Magaziner. Parliamentary inquiry. My understanding is
    that a motion to adjourn is the highest privilege and has to be
    acted on even if there is another open vote. Particularly a
    vote that has not been properly closed.
        Mr. Higgins. Agree, with concurrence which is reflective of
    my understanding. I respect Mr. Magaziner's position and it is
    privileged, but cannot be entertained during an open vote, and
    this is an open vote. So if you would like to enter a motion to
    adjourn, good sir, we will certainly entertain that once we
    have closed this vote.
        Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. The madam is recognized.
        Mr. Kennedy. Request a tally----
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman is recognized.
        Mr. Kennedy. Request a tally of the vote as it stands at
    the moment.
        Mr. Guest. Yes, the Chair will request a tally at
    conclusion of the vote, when we close the vote.
        Mr. Green. Green from Texas, Mr. Chairman. May I be
    recognized?
        Mr. Higgins. Of course. My friend from Texas is recognized.
        Mr. Green. Thank you, my friend. Is it in order to make a
    motion to close the vote?
        Mr. Higgins. I don't believe that a motion to close a vote
    is in order or required. The Chair is keeping the vote open
    until Members from either side of the aisle return to the
    chamber for this unscheduled procedural vote.
        Mr. Green. May I consider this a ruling of the Chair?
        Mr. Higgins. You can't challenge the ruling of the Chair on
    a motion that is not recognized during an open vote. So if you
    continue with--if you would like to submit a motion to adjourn,
    I would suggest you follow the rules there as well. But you
    will have to wait until this vote is closed, good sir.
        Mr. Green. What I would like to do is, as we have done with
    other motions, is appeal the ruling of the Chair.
        Mr. Higgins. You are welcome to appeal the ruling of the
    Chair if it is within the parameters of the rule, but that
    appeal will not be entertained during an open vote.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, you have made a decision by
    keeping the vote open. That is, in effect, a ruling. Mr. Green
    is appealing that decision you have made.
        Mr. Higgins. Yes, we are not going to entertain a motion or
    an appeal while the vote is open, Mr. Ranking Member. You know
    that.
        Mr. Thompson. Well, I know it, but it is not the rules.
        Mr. Higgins. We have always--and ladies and gentlemen, I
    understand your position, understand you are making a stance in
    the Homeland Security Committee.
        Mr. Thompson. We are just making a stance for you to follow
    the rules.
        Mr. Higgins. Historically and traditionally, this committee
    and every committee I have served on has kept votes open when
    you have an unscheduled procedural vote to allow Members to
    return to the chamber to cast a vote.
        Mr. Brecheen. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. This happens if we are in the Majority or you
    are in the Majority. It is ideologically, you know, appropriate
    from either perspective to allow your Members to return to the
    chamber. It is certainly the historical and traditional means
    by which we deal with unscheduled procedural votes.
        Mr. Brecheen. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Higgins. Who was that, please? Mr. Brecheen, you are
    recognized.
        Mr. Brecheen. Point of order or parliamentary inquiry. I
    would put it to you, but I would put it to the Democrat
    opposition, also, is I would love for someone to point out
    where the rules say that you, as Chairman of a committee, do
    not have the discretion over this matter. The accusation that
    the rules are being violated, but yet where is it in the rules
    that does not give the Chairman the allowance or the discretion
    to make this decision?
        Mr. Higgins. Mr. Brecheen yields.
        Mr. Clerk, how is Mr. Mackenzie recorded?
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie has not yet been recorded.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
        Mr. McCaul has not been recorded.
        Mr. McCaul. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul votes aye.
        Mr. Higgins. The Clerk will record a tally.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 15 ayes
    and 14 noes.
        Mr. Higgins. The motion to table has succeeded. The Chair
    recognizes Mr. Magaziner for questioning. You have a motion? I
    am sorry. Mr. Magaziner, you have a motion?
        Mr. Magaziner. No, I will proceed.
        Mr. Higgins. The gentleman withdraws his intention. Mr.
    Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
    witnesses for being here. I am sorry that you are experiencing
    this today. It is not normal how the committee works.
        I will tell you, it is amazing listening to the other side
    complain about our law enforcement officers, ICE, and saying
    that they should not be wearing masks even though they are
    rounding up MS-13 criminals, who in my district would chop up
    children with machetes whether I was in Brentwood or C.I. But
    they want them to be demasked and possibly face retribution. It
    is amazing. The first time that I am asking--they are asking
    for anybody be demasked. I mean antifa, they can wear their
    masks. The violent protesters that burned down cities, burned
    down cars, looted, they can keep their masks on. God forbid we
    hold criminals accountable and ask them to be demasked. But our
    law enforcement officers, let's put them in danger for
    retribution from violent drug cartels and MS-13, who we know,
    whether in the United States or in Mexico or in South America
    or in Central America, kill whoever they want, however they
    want, whenever they want. But let's put our law enforcement
    officers in harm's way.
        Ms. Hopper, organizations that aided and embedded illegal
    immigration activities must be held accountable and the
    committee has identified countless nongovernmental
    organizations appear to have played a larger role in propping
    up the Biden administration's border crisis, helping play a
    role in obscuring the true extent of the lawlessness that
    occurred over the last 4 years. Can you highlight some of the
    most egregious examples of the activities NGO's engaged in in
    support of the Biden administration's open border policies?
        Ms. Hopper. Thank you. Absolutely. I think Florida's grand
    jury review of the whole unaccompanied children process is a
    great place to start if people haven't looked into that. There
    are numerous situations where you can look at the funding of
    what the NGO's took in, starting with the 990's. Then when you
    start to zoom in, you look at the program mismanagement, waste,
    fraud, and abuse. This isn't about the humanitarian mission.
    This isn't about the religious component of the organization,
    the nonprofit. We heard people bring up the religious component
    of the nonprofit. That has nothing to do with that. It has to
    do with how the humanitarian organization handled the program,
    handled these children, handled these funds, and handled the
    sponsors. They didn't, they didn't handle any of that. Now, not
    all NGO's mismanaged children and mismanaged funds, but there
    were a lot of them that did. Taxpayers funded it, they paid for
    it, and they must be held accountable for it.
        Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much. Can you also elaborate
    on the extent to which the Biden administration's reliance on
    nongovernmental organizations endangered the lives of those
    children? I know you touched about it a little bit, but can you
    talk about especially the UACs? That is something that was--we
    saw a lot of UACs being sent up to New York, to Long Island, my
    district, and there was no follow-up or very little follow-up
    after they were sent. Can you talk about that, please?
        Ms. Hopper. Yes. So once NGO's were sending children to
    their sponsors, they were supposed to have an individual
    traveling with them to make sure that they got to their
    destination. We were actually on a flight with numerous UACs
    that were unaccompanied, couldn't speak the language, and
    airlines struggled to communicate with them. They were
    traveling alone. When we spoke with the flight attendants, they
    outlined numerous situations where children showed up at
    incorrect locations. CPS would have to be called because the
    sponsor either didn't show up, they were at the wrong location,
    they couldn't communicate with these unaccompanied children,
    and they were not supposed to be traveling alone. Once they got
    to that State, there wasn't a follow-up, there were 2 phone
    calls and there was very little follow-up or coordination with
    State-level agencies to share that information for meaningful
    welfare checks.
        Mr. Garbarino. Thank you very much for your answer.
        Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of House rule XI,
    I have a motion requesting the committee subpoena former
    Department of Homeland Security Secretary Mayorkas. He refused
    to testify here in his own impeachment trial. We believe the
    Americans should hear from him on his unlawful policies,
    especially the ones that we are addressing here today. So that
    is my motion, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
        Mr. Guest [presiding]. Motion made by Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Magaziner. Point of order. I am sorry, I will defer to
    the----
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, I move to table the motion.
        Mr. Guest. Motion to table. The motion to table is
    privileged and is nondebatable.
        All those in favor of the motion to table, signify voting
    by saying aye.
        All those opposed, signify by saying no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the nays have it.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman, ask for a recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested on the motion
    to table. We will allow the Clerk to resume his position.
        Mr. Clerk, if you will please call the roll.
        Mr. Kennedy. Point of order. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like this committee to wait for other Members to return
    from both sides of the aisle for the vote.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Kennedy, thank you for your input, but, Mr.
    Clerk, if you would please call the roll.
        Mr. Kennedy. Thank you for your consideration, Mr.
    Chairman, as you are clearly demonstrating your partisanship in
    not allowing Members of this committee to return, as you held
    this open for at least 15 minutes on the last vote, which I
    have never seen anything so ridiculous in my entire two-plus
    decades of service in Government. This committee has broken the
    rules countless times today and it continues.
        Mr. Ogles. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. If you open the vote so we can begin, is it
    possible for you to hold the vote open so other Members can
    return it as we just did previously, sir?
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, if you will call the roll, Members
    will have the opportunity to return as the vote is being called
    and as votes are being recorded. So please call the roll. I
    believe we also have votes that are occurring now on the House
    floor, so if you will call the roll on this matter.
        Mr. Magaziner. Point of order, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Garbarino
    stated that Secretary Mayorkas did not come before this
    committee. He came dozens of times, but Stephen Miller has
    refused to come. Tom Homan has refused to come.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, votes have been called in the
    chamber. If you will please call the roll on this matter.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        Mr. McCaul. McCaul votes no.
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul votes no.
        Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes no.
        Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes no.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes no.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes no.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        Mr. Gonzales. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales votes no.
        Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes no.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes no.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes no.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes no.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes no.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes no.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes no.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes no.
        Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes no.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Aye.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes aye.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes aye.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes aye.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        Mr. Magaziner. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes aye.
        Mr. Goldman.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes aye.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes aye.
        Mrs. McIver.
        Mrs. McIver. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes aye.
        Ms. Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. Aye.
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson votes aye.
        Mr. Hernandez.
        Mr. Hernandez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez votes aye.
        Ms. Pou.
        Ms. Pou. Aye.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou votes aye.
        Mr. Carter.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Any other Members wish to record their vote?
        Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Please record me as a no.
        Mr. Goldman has entered the Chamber. Mr. Goldman, would you
    like to be recorded?
        Mr. Goldman. I would. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Any other additional Members who wish to be
    recorded?
        Mr. Clerk, if you will please report the tally.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 16 ayes
    and 12 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The motion to table is not agreed to.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. With votes being called, the Chair intends to
    call a recess. We will return back after votes have been called
    to then debate the motion. So at this time, the committee
    stands in recess.
        [Recess.]
        Mr. Guest. The committee will come to order. At this time,
    I would like to recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr.
    Garbarino, on his motion.
        Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Chairman, out of respect for the
    witnesses that are here and the importance of this topic, I am
    going to withdraw my motion.
        Mr. Guest. The motion has been withdrawn.
        I will now recognize Mrs. Ramirez for 5 minutes for her
    questioning.
        Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Ranking
    Member Thompson.
        It has been a long time in this committee, but I want to
    start by talking about civil society, because civil society, in
    my opinion, is the first line of defense for our communities
    when authoritarianism, you know, like the one that the
    President is attempting on our democracy, tries to attack us.
    When Trump demands a public enemy and abuses our authority to
    target them, it is civil society that holds the line.
        I find it deeply undemocratic and un-American and
    unacceptable that my Republican colleagues are targeting more
    than 212 organizations across the country that assist community
    members, including immigrant children, since we have been
    talking about children, as if you care about immigrant
    children, and asylum seekers to meet their basic needs. So I
    want to make sure that I remind my colleagues, since we have
    been here for a while, that Secretary Noem and this
    administration, a couple of things.
        First of all, crossing a border to the United States to
    request the opportunity to apply for asylum is actually legal.
    Adjusting your status, if you have a pathway to do so, is
    legal. Supporting immigrants to apply for asylum, TPS, parole,
    and other forms of relief is legal. Supporting people to become
    United States citizens is also legal.
        Look, Republicans are going to lie and gaslight us all to
    help their fascist boss suppress dissent. Let me ask you, who
    drags the reputations of essential nonprofits in our
    communities? I will tell you who. Authoritarians, bullies,
    these weak, wannabe kings who are scared of civil society
    because they uphold the democracy.
        This hearing has been unserious, especially since the
    illegal and unlawful activities are actually being perpetrated
    by the people in the White House, the Cabinet, and Republican
    leadership. Tom Homan said during an interview that ICE
    officers and Border Patrol agents don't need any probable cause
    to walk up to someone, question them, and detain them based on
    their physical appearance, occupation, or location. So he
    basically said that if someone looks like me and a couple of
    colleagues here, they can walk up and question us. That is
    racial profiling, which is illegal.
        At the same time, Homan consistently complains about the
    communities like the one I represent from Chicago for knowing
    their rights, because if they know their rights, it is harder
    for him to violate them. Tom Homan's disregard for our rights
    is unconstitutional. Since Mr. Homan, aka the Border Czar, has
    the audacity to repeatedly brag about his legal immigration
    enforcement practices and disrespect due process, I demand he
    come before us to respond to the multitude of questions we have
    for him in person.
        But not just him. Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida is
    complicit in the construction of the Alligator Alcatraz and the
    violations of human rights being perpetrated there. Florida's
    replica of one of our most notorious prisons is a clear
    illustration of the brutality of the Trump administration. They
    unlawfully robbed funds from cities supporting asylum seekers
    to build a CECOT-like detention center in one of the most
    dangerous places in the United States. Yet DeSantis has the
    audacity to repeatedly brag about the inhumane conditions at
    Alligator Alcatraz and celebrate the violence being perpetrated
    with American tax dollars. Governor DeSantis must testify
    before this committee and provide answers to our questions
    about the atrocities being committed in his State.
        He should also bring Secretary Marco Rubio. Because the
    truth is we shouldn't be sending people to foreign countries
    when they may face torture and death with no chance for due
    process or appeal, particularly when they have not had their
    day in court and have not been subject to an extradition
    request. It is a gross violation of our shared humanity and our
    ideals as a Nation to use money that's been appropriated to
    support refugees, to disappear them to offshore prisons in
    countries they do not know and have no connection to. Yet
    Trump, Noem, and Rubio have repeatedly been caught red-handed,
    blatantly breaking the law, entering into backdoor agreements
    with foreign countries to deport people without due process.
        So, Mr. Chair, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I
    move that this committee subpoena Thomas Douglas Homan, Ron
    DeSantis, and Marco Rubio.
        Mr. Guest. Does the gentlelady yield back?
        Mrs. Ramirez. I would like to make sure that my subpoena
    request is in record and is considered.
        Mr. Guest. Yes, ma'am. Do you yield back?
        Mrs. Ramirez. I do.
        Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
        Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I move to table.
        Mr. Guest. A motion to table has been offered. The
    gentleman that moves the motion to table, this is, as we well
    know now, a privileged and nondebatable motion.
        All those in favor of tabling the motion, please signify by
    saying aye.
        Any opposed, no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. Is there a
    motion?
        Mrs. Ramirez. I would like a recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest. There has been a motion for a recorded vote.
        Mr. Clerk, thank you for your yeoman's work today. Mr.
    Clerk, if you will please call the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        Mr. Higgins. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins votes aye.
        Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Pfluger votes aye.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        Mr. Garbarino. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino votes aye.
        Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Luttrell. My apologies.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. You were just called, yes, sir.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. That's all right. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
        Mr. Knott.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. No.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        Mr. Magaziner. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Goldman.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
        Mrs. Ramirez. No.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez votes no.
        Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Are there any Members who wish to record their
    vote?
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chairman has not yet been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Would you please report the tally?
        Mr. Kennedy. Point of order, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Yes.
        Mr. Kennedy. Are we going to leave the voting tally open
    until everybody gets here as we did earlier? There are people
    that are still outstanding, missing votes on both sides of the
    table, bipartisan.
        Mr. Guest. Mrs. McIver, would you like to be recorded?
        Mrs. McIver. Yes. I vote no.
        The Clerk. Mrs. McIver votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Will the Clerk report the tally?
        Mr. Kennedy. Mr. Chairman, are we going to leave the----
        Mr. Guest. Would the Clerk report the tally? You are not
    recognized, Mr. Kennedy.
        The Clerk. On that vote there were 13 ayes and 9 noes.
        Mr. Guest. The opinion of the Chair based upon the recorded
    vote, the motion prevails and this motion is, in fact, tabled.
        At this point, I would recognize Mr. Strong for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Strong. Thank you, Chairman Guest. To our witnesses I
    want to apologize to each of you. I know that y'all have walked
    into a spit wad fight here and I thank each of you for being
    here before us today.
        The American people deserve details, accountability, and
    especially when it comes to their taxpayer dollars they deserve
    answers. You think about it. In recent years, far too much
    Federal funding has gone to NGO's with little oversight,
    questionable practices, and, in some cases, connections that
    raise serious red flags. In 2021, ICE awarded an $86 million
    no-bid contract to Endeavors for hotel stays for illegal
    immigrants.
        Mr. Howell, could you broadly talk about the risk to border
    security and accountability when the Federal Government
    outsources key functions to nongovernment organizations?
        Mr. Howell. Absolutely. So there's a clear break in the
    paper trail and accountability. Once the money leaves DHS,
    there's little in the way of reporting requirements as to how
    it's spent, how it's maintained, where the illegals go, and all
    sorts of other standards that relate to condition. For example,
    in these nonprofit facilities, not much in the way of licensing
    requirements or living standards are there. Yet you have all
    this attention on ICE facilities for quite the opposite
    reasons. So it's a vastly different ecosystem.
        Mr. Strong. In his testimony, Mr. Rosas noted that certain
    nongovernment organizations were present during the recent
    unrest in Los Angeles, and many have played a role in
    obstructing Federal operations. Mr. Howell, has your team
    identified any instances where Federally-funded nongovernment
    organizations appear to be aligned with political and advocacy
    groups or campaigns in ways that could raise concerns about
    conflicts of interest or inappropriate influence?
        Mr. Howell. Absolutely. I think the most recent, you know,
    former Secretary of Homeland Security, Alejandro Mayorkas, who
    was impeached, coming from Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, is an
    example of how this whole system works and the very cozy
    relationship between the nonprofits and Governmental actors. As
    it relates to the violence we see in the streets, the foot
    soldiers and organizers, I would say, are one degree removed
    away from those receiving Government funds, you know, the giant
    organizations like Catholic Charities and others, who do a lot
    more in terms of public advocacy. It's a very complex ecosystem
    all pushing in the same direction.
        Mr. Strong. Turning to Ms. Hopper, DHS OIG previously found
    that nearly 60 percent of certain emergency food and shelter
    programs reimburses lacked adequate receipts, didn't turn in
    receipts. Does this suggest a pattern of gross financial
    mismanagement or potential fraud among NGO's receiving DHS
    grants?
        Ms. Hopper. It absolutely does. When you're unable to
    provide receipts. We have first-hand accounts of facilities
    serving rice and beans and charging the U.S. Government a steak
    and lobster diet, that's a problem.
        Mr. Strong. Ms. Hopper, in your view, how did the Federal
    Government's emphasis on raid placement--rapid placement over
    thorough screening create opportunities for traffickers to
    exploit the Unaccompanied Alien Children Program?
        Ms. Hopper. They absolutely did. We interviewed
    incarcerated cartel members that knew when this administration
    took over that they were not going to have access to the same
    pipelines and taxpayer dollars that they had access to before.
    They know that when unaccompanied children came in, they would
    provide the name, number, and address of the sponsor, cartel-
    controlled, so that the child could be put to work to pay off
    the debt that they owed their smuggler or trafficker.
        Mr. Strong. Ms. Hopper, beyond the serious risk of
    exploitation and trafficking, there are growing concerns that
    some unaccompanied alien children may be vulnerable to
    recruitment by violent gangs like MS-13 or Tren de Aragua. Is
    that something that has come up in your investigations and
    research?
        Ms. Hopper. It absolutely has. With the open borders, we
    had numerous transnational criminal organizations, criminal
    networks, bad actors come into this country and with them they
    are looking for recruits. So when you have young teenagers
    looking for--they have food instability, housing instability,
    and they have a debt to pay off, they are going to pay that off
    by working with cartel members.
        Mr. Strong. Thank you. To close out my time, one issue that
    has been raised by State and local law enforcement is the lack
    of communication by NGO's as they facilitate the movement and
    settlement of these aliens in local communities. Keeping law
    enforcement out of the loop creates public safety concerns and
    likewise does a disservice to the settlement of migrants. For
    any of our witnesses, can you speak to why these NGO's were
    encouraged not to work with local law enforcement and some of
    the downstream implications of these poor policies?
        Mr. Howell. It's because that would have gotten in the way
    of moving as many illegal aliens around the country as humanly
    possible, which was completely the opposite of the goal of the
    Biden administration and the NGO's. That's why they don't
    cooperate.
        Ms. Hopper. They didn't cooperate because they didn't have
    to cooperate. Contractually, they weren't required to and so
    they didn't.
        Mr. Rosas. I concur with my fellow witnesses.
        Mr. Strong. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair recognizes Mr. Magaziner for 5 minutes of
    questioning.
        Mr. Magaziner. Thank you, Chairman.
        Donald Trump said he would focus on deporting criminals and
    people with removal orders, but that is not what his
    administration has been doing. Instead, the Trump
    administration has been going after innocent, hardworking
    people who have committed no crimes, including children,
    including U.S. citizens, children, grandparents, veterans,
    students who express unpopular political opinions, and yes,
    even United States citizens. The latest data from Donald
    Trump's Department of Homeland Security, their own data, shows
    that more than 70 percent of those in ICE detention have no
    criminal convictions.
        They are locking people up who have tried immigrating to
    the United States the legal way, who presented themselves at
    ports of entry and asked for asylum. People like Andry
    Hernandez Romero, a gay makeup artist from Venezuela, who came
    to the United States seeking asylum. Listen to this. He did not
    enter the country illegally. He presented himself at a port of
    entry near San Diego, tried to do it the legal way. What did
    the Trump administration do? They put him on a plane to El
    Salvador to a prison where he is still today. He has never been
    convicted of any crimes. He did not even enter the United
    States illegally. We have been asking the administration, can
    you give us a proof of life? Can you let us know that he is
    still alive? They refused to do so.
        They deported a mother from Louisiana along with her 7-
    year-old daughter and 4-year-old son, both of whom are U.S.
    citizens and the 4-year-old has stage 4 cancer. The mother of
    these children has said that she did not consent to having her
    children deported with her. Secretary Noem was here and she
    said under oath that she had documentation proving that the
    mother had consented. She said she would provide it. She still
    has not. Representative Swalwell and I followed up with her.
    She still has not presented any documentation, any rationale
    for why this 4-year-old U.S. citizen with cancer was deported
    to a country that is not his own.
        So when I hear my colleagues and when I hear our witnesses
    saying that they care about the lives of the children, I am
    sorry, you have no credibility if you are not prepared to call
    out the injustice of deporting a 4-year-old with cancer, a 7-
    year-old with leukemia. Where is your sympathy for those
    children? No, Donald Trump gets a free pass always, no matter
    what he does from this crowd. That is how we know that what we
    are hearing is political today, not a real concern for the
    children who have been caught up in all of this.
        There is more. This family in Oregon, 4 children, all U.S.
    citizens. These 4 children, along with their parents, who have
    no criminal record, were put into detention by ICE for 2 weeks
    in a Border Patrol facility that is not designed for long-term
    detention. A 10-by-10 cell that these 5 were in, they were just
    released after 2 weeks. These U.S. citizen children, where is
    the concern for them?
        We know why this is happening. It is because on May 21,
    Stephen Miller summoned ICE officials to Washington and ordered
    them to make mass arrests, not to focus on criminals. He said
    go after people at Home Depot and 7-Eleven. Because, again,
    unlike what President Trump promised, that they were going to
    go after the worst of the worst, Stephen Miller, who apparently
    is calling the shots, ordered ICE to round up everybody,
    regardless of whether they are hardened criminals or not.
        Please, someone tell me, what threat to our country do
    these children pose or their parents who have lived here and
    worked here for years and committed no crimes in the country?
    Is this the worst of the worst? Of course not.
        This is the same Stephen Miller, by the way, who was the
    architect of the family separation policy under the first Trump
    administration, during which 4,600 children were removed from
    their parents, some as young as 10 months old. Where is the
    concern for those 4,600 children? I haven't heard a word from
    any of our partisan witnesses or any of my partisan colleagues
    on the other side. You lose your credibility when you refuse to
    acknowledge the humanity of those 4,600 children who were
    separated purposefully from their families by the first Trump
    administration or the children who are being unlawfully
    detained and deported today.
        I will leave you with this. Pope Leo, His Holiness, posted
    on X about the Trump administration deporting people to El
    Salvador. He said, ``Do you not see the suffering? Is your
    conscience not disturbed? How can you stay quiet?''
        This is not what the American people want. Let's focus on
    going after real criminals, not children, not U.S. citizens,
    not people who are just trying to make a living, who pose no
    threat. Let's focus on the criminals.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair recognizes Mr. Brecheen for his 5 minutes of
    questioning.
        Mr. Brecheen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We tend to find
    tactics of distraction, distraction, distraction, distraction.
    It is what we see happening with people that are trying to stop
    ICE from deportation efforts. We see that happening in the
    committee, and H.R. 2 is not law. What H.R. 2 was designed to
    do is to stop the $6 billion. That is an entire State budget.
    Many of us think about the size of your State budget. Six
    billion dollars under the Biden administration went to these
    nongovernment organizations, many of which are 100 percent
    Federally-funded, like Endeavors that reach the size of Save
    the Children.
        Ms. Hopper, you mentioned that in your testimony. Save the
    Children been around for generations. It is designed for--that
    is privately funded. This Endeavors nongovernment organization
    went from $52 million and went to over $1 billion because of
    Government funding.
        Ms. Hopper, you talked about the NGO's being complicit. I
    don't know how many were stirred by your conversation about the
    17-year-old child that was placed with someone that was
    discovered from the Office of Refugee Resettlement had tattoos
    resembling that of MS-13 gang members. It was reported,
    supervisors overruled that, a month or two later the child is--
    the 17-year-old is found dead. A man passed out has his pants--
    de-pantsed, sexual activity being absolutely implied. You are
    talking about all the different ways that these NGO's who got
    rich, hundred--$700,000 CEO figures for the CEO of Endeavors.
    That man needs to be held accountable, Jon Allman.
        We are talking about children that were ushered into the
    interior of the United States. These NGO's profited from it.
    Cozy relationships with the Democrat administration. Who knows
    what political payback there is? Who knows how many of those
    dollars that are still retained? When you are talking a billion
    dollars retained by these organizations, who knows how many of
    the activities that are trying to stop deportation are still
    those dollars are reproducing after themselves? Who knows how
    many times we also see in New York City people being taught how
    to evade ICE? We know it is NGO's.
        This is a lawmaking exercise. We hold these hearings to
    hold people accountable for the misuse of taxpayer funds. This
    is evil and we haven't solved it. We have to have legislation
    to stop any future administration from co-opting FEMA dollars
    and repurposing for these nefarious ends.
        All right. Mr. Howell, you all did a project where you took
    these NGO's, these 230 NGO's, some of them out of country,
    helping bring people in, some of them in country working as an
    Uber service, you all did a $30,000 data search on cell phones
    and you found among these 230 organizations of which 15 United
    Nation spends by the U.S. Government, funneled through the
    United Nations ended up into some of these NGO's. You all found
    that tracking 30,000 cell phones that the Uber service, these
    organizations getting rich, went to every Congressional
    district in this committee hearing.
        Not just every Congressional district in this hearing,
    every Congressional district in the United States moving
    unaccompanied minors, children to these sponsors. Only 4
    Congressional districts out of 435 Congressional districts
    where we weren't, where these NGO's were not moving people. The
    gentleman who raped and murdered Laken Riley was among the list
    who had 2 trips where he went to New York City paid for at NGO
    expense. I am sorry, taxpayer expense funneled through these
    nongovernment organizations.
        I need to let you talk.
        Mr. Howell. You're absolutely right, sir. So for our study
    back in 2022, when this country and towns across it, we're
    seeing flights being dropped off in the middle of the night
    with no advance notice, citizens were living in fear, we
    decided to do a small, very small sample size of that huge mass
    of the NGO blob. We looked at only 30 locations for a 1-month
    period, grabbed the cell phone movement, in and out of them,
    30,000 devices. From that very small sample size they went to
    every single Congressional district.
        Mr. Brecheen. I have got 19 seconds left. I want to say
    this. You also report that in New York you saw that these funds
    were being used for shelter programs, providing false residency
    documents to illegals, showing them how to provide false
    documents. Other NGO you found in Mexico tied into this,
    illegal alien camps that had flyers teaching people--telling
    people, don't forget to vote for Biden. You had NGO's advising
    illegals to lie to law enforcement to evade ICE. All a part of
    your organization's information. We need to spend more time on
    this because this could still continue in the future absent
    legislation prohibiting and cranking the screws down to make
    sure this is never repeated.
        I yield.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from New York, Mr.
    Kennedy, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Chairman. Earlier I entered into
    the record a press release from this Republican-led committee
    stating that the U.S. Conference of Bishops and Catholic
    Charities USA are under investigation, directly contradicting
    what was stated by my Republican colleagues in this committee
    earlier in our deliberations.
        I would like to enter into the record a letter from Pope
    Francis to the bishops of the United States of America back on
    February 10, 2025. Pope Francis sent a letter to the U.S.
    Conference of Bishops rebuking the Trump administration on its
    mass deportation policies, which included the deportation of
    U.S. citizens, mind you. Just a couple of months later, what
    seems like retribution from the Trump administration and
    Congressional Republicans, now Catholic Charities USA and U.S.
    Conference of Bishops are being investigated and funding is
    being cut to the humanitarian work that they are doing across
    our country. It is deeply offensive to Catholics across this
    Nation and it reeks of anti-Catholicism and it needs to stop.
        But this is just the tip of the iceberg. You know, as is
    the case with all of our districts, there are many
    organizations that do incredible work that help resettle new
    Americans and refugees. We lose sight of the selfless
    humanitarian work that these local nongovernment organizations
    do when we rope them in with the partisan grievances that we
    are hearing here today. In my own district, there are hundreds
    of refugees that have settled in just the last 3 months alone.
    But in the last year, across our country, over 100,000 refugees
    have come to this great Nation, who have faced unimaginable
    hardship based on religion, race, nationality, political
    opinions, or sexual orientation. They rely on the housing, case
    management, nutrition, and job placement services provided by
    these NGO's. They are doing their best to make ends meet, to
    become a part of a new community.
        You know, while that is critical, life-altering support
    made possible in large part to the Federal Government
    investment in these programs, these programs and funding
    streams are being cut by this administration and Congressional
    Republicans. They are not only affecting jobs and livelihoods
    across the country in every single community represented on
    this committee, but they are forcing the workers to be laid
    off. Hence the work that they were doing to help new Americans
    assimilate into our country is not being done. Refugees can no
    longer rely on these services, workers can no longer rely on
    support from the Federal Government to keep the lights on.
        Meanwhile, American people are watching as people,
    including U.S. citizens and children with cancer, are grabbed
    off the street by masked ICE agents in plain clothes. Migrants
    are mistreated at detention center by the administration's
    Department of Homeland Security. People who came here legally
    to seek a better life see their futures in jeopardy under
    Trump's policies.
        Finally, I want to share my remarks about an incredibly
    pressing issue that this committee would be better off
    addressing and is suited to explore. It's already been
    addressed today, but all of our hearts are broken about what
    transpired in Texas with the flooding just a week and a half
    ago. In Kerr County, Texas, surrounding areas experiencing the
    unimaginable devastation and loss of life. Over 132 lives lost,
    over 100 still missing. In the aftermath of this tragedy,
    current FEMA employees sounding the alarm about the Trump
    administration's slow and delayed response to Central Texas and
    reporting suggesting that FEMA failed to answer many calls,
    thousands of calls from victims in the days following the
    flooding.
        So make no mistake, emergency responders and local
    officials in Texas carried out acts of heroism to save lives
    and pick up the pieces of the lives that were shattered. But
    this committee has an obligation to investigate how the Trump
    administration's months-long degradation of FEMA, from
    defunding to layoffs to consolidation, played a role in these
    delays. Seventy-two hours it took them to get people on the
    ground from FEMA into the flood zone to save lives and to help
    those poor people in that horrific disaster. I am so
    disappointed that there has not been more of a measured
    response from Republicans to address the authority and
    oversight of this committee.
        I have sent a letter with Congressman Gabe Amo, the Ranking
    Member of the House subcommittee with oversight over emergency
    weather alerts, asking the administration to address these
    issues. I ask you, Chairman and my colleagues, it is our
    responsibility to conduct this oversight in an urgent matter
    moving forward. Let's address these real threats and not chase
    political distractions.
        On that note, I would like to, also, with unanimous
    consent, put into the record this op-ed from the former FEMA
    head, Deanne Criswell, ``Cuts to Federal Response Programs
    Guarantee Future Disasters.''
        I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, the gentleman yields. Without
    objection, be entered into the record. The gentleman yields
    back.
        [The information follows:]

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     former fema head: cuts to federal response programs guarantee future
                               disasters/opinion
    By Deanne Criswell, Newsweek, July 11, 2025
        I've been an emergency manager for nearly three decades, and one
    thing has never changed: All disasters begin and end at the local
    level. Whether I was leading emergency operations in a small town or in
    the nation's largest city, this fundamental truth remained the same--
    local responders are the first line of defense. But they can't do it
    alone.
        Emergency management has long followed this principle: local
    execution, State management, Federal support. Local firefighters, EMS,
    police, and emergency managers are always the first on scene. When
    local capacity is overwhelmed, they reach out to the State. When the
    State needs more, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) steps
    in. FEMA doesn't supplant local responders; it supports them. This
    system can take days to escalate--or mere hours when disaster strikes
    fast, like it did in Western North Carolina last year or Kerr County,
    Texas, this past week.
        Let's be clear: FEMA does not take over response operations. It
    supports them. And in a disaster, time is our most precious resource.
        FEMA exists to support States and communities when they need help
    the most. But the system only works when it's allowed to work. In
    recent months, we've seen challenges that could limit FEMA's ability to
    lead: reduced grant funding, constrained hiring authorities, and
    administrative delays that slow or sideline responses. These moves
    don't just weaken FEMA--they weaken the entire emergency management
    system.
        One of the most powerful tools we have to save lives is early
    warning. Sirens, wireless alerts, NOAA weather radios--these systems
    work. But they require trust and investment. Communities must have the
    training and system access they need to issue warnings. FEMA's grant
    and technical assistance programs make this possible, especially for
    smaller jurisdictions. Yet already, one major grant program has been
    eliminated, stripping communities of their chance to install or
    maintain life-saving systems.
        FEMA's grants fund nearly half the emergency management workforce
    in many communities. These dollars support planning, training,
    staffing, and early warning systems--tools that are essential in the
    face of increasing threats, such as hurricanes, wildfires, floods, and
    even cyber attacks. Without this Federal support, we're asking local
    governments to meet 21st-Century risks with 20th-Century tools.
        We've been here before.
        Nearly 20 years ago, Hurricane Katrina exposed critical failures in
    our disaster response system. FEMA was unprepared, under-resourced, and
    poorly integrated with other agencies. Still settling into the newly-
    created Department of Homeland Security, the agency suffered from
    dysfunctional coordination and confusion about who was in charge. Some
    in top leadership had no emergency management experience. Political
    affiliations, not qualifications, shaped appointments. Bureaucracy
    slowed life-saving action. People died.
        In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, FEMA was restructured and
    strengthened through the Post-Katrina Emergency Management Reform Act,
    which clarified the agency's authorities and restored some of its
    autonomy within DHS. The law mandated two key reforms: First, the FEMA
    administrator must have real, on-the-ground emergency management
    experience. Second, FEMA was elevated to a Presidentially-appointed,
    Senate-confirmed position with direct access to the President during
    disasters, cutting through red tape to speed up response. It also
    introduced the concept of response doctrine through the National
    Response Framework, based on five key principles: engaged partnership,
    tiered response, scalable/flexible/adaptable operations, unity of
    effort through unified command, and readiness to act. These reforms
    weren't partisan--they were about saving lives.
        Emergency management standards are born from tragedy. But the
    farther we get from Katrina, the more those hard-won lessons seem
    forgotten. In the case of this week's floods in Texas, FEMA was ready
    to respond--but was delayed by administrative hurdles and approval
    processes that took 72 hours to resolve. That's time we can never get
    back. And in emergencies, delayed help can cost lives.
        Imagine a major hurricane bearing down on Florida while wildfires
    rage in California and floods surge across the Midwest. That's not a
    hypothetical--it's our new normal. And we're talking about dismantling
    the very system designed to protect us from it.
        So now what?
        I've spent my career responding to crises. I've seen how quickly
    lives can change, and how deeply preparedness matters. The choices we
    make now will shape how this Nation weathers the storms ahead--
    literally and figuratively. If we continue down the path of dismantling
    FEMA, we're not just inviting disaster. We're guaranteeing it.
        Helping people before, during, and after disaster is not just
    FEMA's job--it's America's promise to everyone who calls this great
    Nation home. Every level of government has a role to play. Of course
    the system can improve. But reforms must be thoughtful, informed by
    experience, and shaped in partnership with the State, tribal,
    territorial, and local emergency managers who rely on FEMA's support.
        Now is not the time to weaken FEMA. Instead, we must strengthen it
    with the essential tools, resources, and leadership to confront future
    challenges head-on. Emergency managers across the country are working
    tirelessly, and they don't need theatrics. What they need is genuine
    partnership and unwavering support. It's time to come together and
    ensure all emergency managers, including FEMA, have everything they
    need to protect and serve our communities effectively.
        Today, we mourn the lives lost in Kerrville, Texas. But tomorrow,
    it could be any community--your community or mine. The threats we face
    are increasing, not diminishing. We can't afford to strip away the
    resources or experience needed to respond.
        We must remember the lessons of our past--so we don't repeat them
    in our future.

    Deanne Criswell was the 12th FEMA Administrator and confirmed
    unanimously by the U.S. Senate. Previously, she served as lead
    emergency manager for New York City and Aurora, Colorado. She also was
    a fire firefighter and a member of the Colorado Air National Guard.

        Mr. Guest. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona,
    Mr. Crane, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this
    hearing today on how NGO's facilitated the Biden border crisis.
        You can see our colleagues are very upset that we are
    having this hearing today. They don't want to talk about this
    stuff. They don't want to talk about the 300,000 kids that we
    still don't know where they are. They are upset that President
    Trump got elected. They are upset that he is doing exactly what
    he said he was going to do. We are backing him up here in
    Congress. This is what the American people voted for because
    they saw 4 years of the carnage that these open-border policies
    plagued on the United States. We are talking about the NGO's
    that they used as middlemen to carry out their operations, like
    the Catholic Charities they used to facilitate, normalize, and
    accelerate illegal immigration into this country.
        Ms. Hopper, you have worked closely with trafficking
    victims and survivors. I would like to explore the role that
    the NGO's have played in enabling the trafficking and
    exploitation of unaccompanied alien children. Under the last
    administration, what safeguards were put in place to protect
    vulnerable unaccompanied children?
        Ms. Hopper. I previously discussed the post-placement
    welfare checks, which consisted of 2 phone calls. Again, if the
    sponsor didn't answer, the case was no longer followed up on.
    But there was also a notice of concern hotline where people
    could report concerns about the unaccompanied child's safety.
    But what this administration found was from August 2023 to
    January 2025, 65,000 calls went unanswered. Those calls spanned
    from, you know, complaints about stale bread all the way to
    being abused, to one case where a child's call was reporting
    that grown men were coming into his room at night and they were
    touching him. Nothing happened with that call. That call went
    unanswered until this administration took office, went through
    those 65,000 calls, made follow-ups, conducted a welfare check,
    and now that child has been rescued and that sponsor has been
    arrested. These are the safeguards that were put in place, but
    accountability and oversight was not had.
        Mr. Crane. So you are telling this committee that the Biden
    administration, while they were letting all of these
    unaccompanied minors into the country, and as we have talked
    about today, they weren't keeping track of them, they issued
    these kids a hotline that they could call if they had trouble
    with the sponsor family that they were put with? You are saying
    that 65,000 calls to this hotline designated to protect these
    kids went unanswered. Is that what you are telling this
    committee?
        Ms. Hopper. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Crane. Wow. That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. I
    believe you also said, Ms. Hopper, that according to your
    research, it was easier to adopt a pet or a dog than it was to
    get one of these children. Is that what you said?
        Ms. Hopper. I said that it was easier to get a child, yes,
    than to adopt a dog. You actually had to provide more paperwork
    to adopt a pet from a pet shelter than you did to sponsor a
    child.
        Mr. Crane. Yes. Think about it, guys. This is exactly why
    the American people are so upset. This is why they voted for
    the President, and this is why they voted for this agenda, to
    not only remove people from this country to secure our borders,
    but to find these kids. I mean, this is completely atrocious in
    a day and age where we are starting to wake up to the realities
    of sex trafficking and what is going on with these kids. They
    let all these kids in. We still don't know where over 300,000
    of these kids are. You are sitting here testifying, saying that
    they gave a hotline for these kids to report if they were OK,
    if they needed anything, and 65,000 calls went unanswered. Do
    you know how many staffers the administration assigned to
    answering these phones and helping these kids?
        Ms. Hopper. One.
        Mr. Crane. One staffer? Any idea how many hours a day this
    staffer was working?
        Ms. Hopper. No.
        Mr. Crane. Maybe that is why there were 65,000 calls that
    weren't answered from these little kids. Huh? Unbelievable.
    Thank you.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from New Jersey, Ms.
    McIver, for 5 minutes.
        Mrs. McIver. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I first want to start off by just advising that witnesses
    should definitely come here with the facts. One of the
    witnesses today stated that I was arrested, and that is a
    complete lie, and I want to put that on the record.
        Mr. Chairman, this hearing is a shame, a sham, and a
    complete disgrace. Just because Republicans don't want to see
    it doesn't mean it is not true. The charities the majority is
    targeting are doing the Lord's work, quite literally.
    Republicans are trying to misrepresent and undermine and attack
    the work of these charities do to, excuse me, these charities
    do to assist the most vulnerable and underserved, all while
    quoting scripture from the Bible. No matter what narrative my
    colleagues across the aisle try to spin, the truth is that
    these religious organizations and other nonprofits are not
    political. They seek to provide aid to those who are fleeing
    violence and seeking asylum.
        To every person working at the charities, religious
    organizations, and other NGO's that are the subject of this
    hearing I say this to you, thank you and I am sorry. Thank you
    for providing the services and resources that our Government
    has failed to provide to desperate people who are in need. I am
    sorry that Republicans are trying to intimidate you and prevent
    you from carrying out this critical work.
        I am appalled that this hearing is being used as an attempt
    to target religious organizations and prevent them from serving
    their communities in accordance with their faith. Meanwhile,
    the Republican Majority has not done an ounce of oversight of
    the Trump administration, even as Trump and his administration
    tear apart DHS.
        In January, Trump installed unelected billionaire Elon Musk
    as the leader of DOGE and empowered him to derail and demonize
    critical functions across the Government, including at DHS.
    Elon has long had massive, unexplained ties to China. He did
    not file any kind of financial disclosure, even as he took a
    role in overhauling the Federal Government. But did the
    Republican Majority demand any information on Musk's conflicts?
    Did they ask questions about his ties to the Chinese
    government, a topic that draws their interest in just about
    every context every week on this committee? No, they did not.
    Instead, they turned the blind eye to DOGE and installed
    unqualified staffers across DHS, gained access to sensitive
    security systems, and drove off untold members of dedicated
    civil servants carrying out important missions to secure our
    homeland.
        DOGE has been dismantling and reshaping DHS for 6 months
    now. Has the Republican Majority held a single hearing or
    called a single witness to examine these massive changes to the
    Department? No, they have not.
        More recently, Elon Musk and Donald Trump had a very messy
    breakup. Perhaps men are just too fragile and emotional for
    these jobs, but I digress. We did, in fact, learn a few things
    during this breakup. On June 6, Musk tweeted, ``Time to drop
    the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files.''
    That is the real reason they have not been made public. ``Have
    a nice day, DJT.'' Wow. Now that is some inside information.
    Elon Musk, Donald Trump's right-hand man, who spent hundreds of
    millions of dollars to help get Trump elected, says the
    President is tied to the notorious child sex predator. Look
    what we are talking about today. Indeed, over the past several
    days, Trump has moved to permanently squash the release of the
    Epstein files.
        Now, my Republican colleagues have long expressed a desire
    to fight human trafficking. Woohoo. Talking about it today, but
    yet scared to call out to ask the administration to release the
    Epstein files. Surely that must be something we can all get
    behind. Surely we can all agree that if Elon Musk has evidence
    that Donald Trump is or has ever been involved in child sex
    trafficking, then Musk should be compelled to come share his
    evidence to with this committee and the public.
        Now, I am sure some of my colleagues may argue that Musk is
    just blowing smoke, but who is to say? Let's find out. I might
    have my doubts, but if you think that under oath Musk would
    admit he does not actually have any evidence to back up his
    claims, then great, let's find out. Let's do some real work on
    this committee.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentlelady yields back.
        The Chair recognizes Mr. Ogles from the State of Tennessee
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Ogles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to enter
    into the record for unanimous consent a news story by News
    Nation, updated on June 7, 2023, by Mr. Ventura and Mr.
    Markham, talking about the NGO's using tax dollars to relocate
    migrants, and quite frankly----
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, the document ** will be
    entered into the record.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ** [The information referred to a video rather than a document,
    found at the following: https://www.newsnationnow.com/video/us-relies-
    heavily-on-nonprofits-to-receive-migrants-morning-in-america/8713310.]
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Mr. Ogles. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        When you look at their track record, and there is some
    statistics I will quote, and most of this can be directed at
    you, Ms. Hopper, but to the other 2 witnesses, feel free to
    chime in, we will just have an open dialog, is they were
    clearly putting profit over the safety of these children. My
    colleagues on the other side have spent most of the day
    disrupting this hearing, stalling this hearing with procedural
    votes. Meanwhile, we have 325,000 children that are unaccounted
    for. We have 65,000 calls of concern that went unanswered. Yet
    all they want to talk about is Trump and Elon Musk and some
    tweet has since been redacted. I mean, it is nonsense.
        By the way, you know, one of my colleagues mentioned
    religion, religion, you know, saying that, you know, we over
    here are righteous. Yet I do believe if you look at the context
    of this hearing, they are the ones that are quoting the Pope
    and the Catholic bishops and all the other stuff. Meanwhile, I
    want to talk about the children. How do we find these 300,000
    kids? How many of them are being sexually abused right now? I
    think in your testimony, 70 percent, or one of your
    testimonies, 70 percent of the records involving children were
    falsified. Eighty percent of the women coming into an El Paso
    shelter were sexually assaulted. Where is the outrage on the
    other side, folks? That is what this is about.
        This should be a nonpartisan committee. We are talking
    about the safety of the homeland, talking about 300,000
    children that right now could be being raped systematically and
    trafficked. They want to talk about the boogeyman. I want to
    talk about the boogeyman, too. I want to talk about all the
    predators and the gangbangers and the murderers that were
    allowed into this country; just in Nashville, the ICE raid
    where they arrested murderers, rapists, traffickers, child
    traffickers. That is who they are protecting. Let's talk about
    these 300,000 kids. How do we find them? How do we undo this
    mess?
        Oh, by the way, the idea that none of these folks are
    criminals, if you came into this country on false pretense,
    that is a crime. They are not migrants. They are illegal
    immigrants, and they are breaking our laws and I have had
    enough of this crap. Let's talk about the facts, the facts
    around this hearing and these children.
        Ms. Hopper.
        Ms. Hopper. There needs to be complete coordination with
    the State and local agencies. They know that UACs were sent to
    their specific districts, their counties. There's a database on
    the ORR website, specifically outlining how many UACs were sent
    to certain counties and cities across all 50 States. So, with
    the help of the local, State, and Federal agencies, that would
    be a good place to start. But a lot of these State agencies are
    stonewalling and blocking our efforts because they want to
    protect illegal aliens over finding unaccompanied children.
        Mr. Ogles. Mr. Howell.
        Mr. Howell. One of the best ways to find these children is
    to dramatically ramp up worksite enforcement by ICE. A lot of
    these kids are working in factory farms, weed farms, all across
    the country. Until ICE begins increasing their activities
    there, I don't think we will find a lot of these missing kids.
        Mr. Ogles. Mr. Rosas.
        Mr. Rosas. Congressman, what I'll say, I mean, I'll echo
    that, they came here because they wanted to work, obviously in
    horrible conditions. What I'll say and what I'll address is
    that it's false to say that these raids that are happening are
    not targeting the worst of the worst. I was with Border Patrol
    in Los Angeles County just recently, and they did an operation
    at a Home Depot, and they found a convicted pedophile because
    he's there looking for work. Those are the people that they
    want to hire to bring them into their homes, around their
    families? It doesn't work that way. So I would concur that
    worksite operations need to increase, not decrease by any
    stretch.
        Mr. Ogles. Mr. Chairman, you know, I thank you for the
    importance of this hearing, the topic. I thank you to the
    witnesses. But as we look at the systematic trafficking that we
    have seen across this country, Ms. Hopper, you are an expert on
    this, when you look at the distribution networks that the
    cartels have into our country, a distribution network, by the
    way, that would rival FedEx or, you know, the United Postal
    Service, and their ability to move product, and for them,
    product is human trafficking. Product is kids and women.
        So with that, I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Puerto Rico, Mr.
    Hernandez.
        Mr. Hernandez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I would like to just briefly raise my voice in favor of
    NGO's and the service they provided. As a law student, I worked
    with NGO's dedicated to immigrants, but not just to make sure
    that they could normalize their immigration status. I worked
    with immigrants on behalf of a cause that I think all
    Republicans support. I worked with immigrants to help them
    assimilate to United States culture and identity. I helped them
    study for their U.S. citizenship exams. I could see their hope,
    their commitment. I would even say they were more patriotic and
    committed to this Nation than many people who are born and
    raised here.
        I worked with NGO's to help victims of domestic violence
    who fled their home countries with their children, fleeing from
    terrible, terrible, terrible life circumstances, and people who
    found hope and security in this Nation. People that I was proud
    to see this Nation welcome to provide them safety and security
    and a brighter future. So I really profoundly regret to see
    this Congress, to see this committee attack NGO's so broadly
    under a false pretext, that this is really to protect the
    people. We are attacking people. We are attacking institutions
    that help people. I want to make sure that history reflects the
    side that we, the Democratic Caucus, this side of the aisle,
    stand on today.
        Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Crane. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. I am sorry. Who wants to be recognized?
        Mr. Crane. Crane from Arizona.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Request to enter into the record from Oversight
    Project article, ``Tracking Movement of Illegal Aliens From
    NGO's to the U.S. Interior.''
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it shall be admitted into the
    record.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Crane. Thank you.
        Mr. Thompson. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. I would like to enter into the record the
    statement of Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of Brooklyn, New York, in
    which he states, ``From our Catholic faith perspective, the
    issue is ultimately about human beings.''
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be entered into the
    record.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Guest. With the gentleman yielding, the Chair now
    recognizes the gentlelady from South Carolina, Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Chairman Guest. Thank you to our
    witnesses for your patience today.
        This hearing is important, and I think it is crucial that
    we know the role that the NGO's played in the invasion of our
    country. While the Biden administration opened the doors, the
    NGO's fueled the invasion. They provided or coordinated
    transportation to the interior of the country, along with food,
    shelter, legal fees, and more, all with your tax dollars.
        Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record this
    piece of The Free Press titled ``Nonprofits are Making Billions
    Off the Border Crisis.''
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it shall be entered into the
    record.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mrs. Biggs. So, Global Refuge, one of these Trojan horses,
    listed $202 million in revenue in 2022, up from $50 million in
    2018, which is 86 percent of that money came directly from the
    taxpayers. Another organization, which we have already talked
    about today, Endeavor, received 99.6 percent of its revenue
    from taxpayers. These groups made profits by forcing us to pay
    for the invasion of our own country.
        So my first question, and I would really like to leave it
    open for any of you to please feel free to comment, but it is
    kind-of simple. How many illegals did these bad actors bring
    in? How much of our hard-earned tax dollars did they spend? Did
    they even attempt to determine if any of the illegals that
    flooded our homeland were violent criminals?
        Mr. Rosas. Congresswoman, what I'll say is that it's also
    not just the unaccompanied monitors that were processed
    through. There wasn't DNA testing being done with family units
    who were being presented and turning themselves over to Border
    Patrol. So there were ``family units'' that these NGO's also
    helped and processed. But, you know, you ask any border
    official, any border enforcement, they'll tell you that they
    rent kids out to act as family units or they're trafficking
    these kids as family units.
        So I know, understandably, we're talking a lot about the
    unaccompanied minors, and that should definitely have a big
    focus. But we also can't forget the fake family units that took
    advantage of the Biden administration not doing DNA testing to
    ensure that those were actual families.
        Ms. Hopper. That was a very good question. Thank you so
    much for that. Between the ports of entry, it's really hard to
    determine how many bad actors and criminal networks came into
    the interior of the country during the Biden-Harris
    administration. I know it's frustrating to hear that we keep
    mentioning the Biden-Harris administration, but when you have
    over 300,000 children that went missing under that
    administration, it is worth asking because they are still
    missing.
        With these criminal networks, we worked with another
    nonprofit in California. Again, we're not against nonprofits.
    We are against the ones that take taxpayer dollars and
    mismanage the funds and abuse the funds to reiterate for the
    record. But they found numerous cell phones of smugglers. The
    Goat Initiative works with local law enforcement and turns over
    cell phones that include data as far as how to obtain a child
    once you're in the United States, what pathways to take and
    even include the nuclear posture of the United States. These
    are not, you know, your average construction worker.
        When you say they have no criminal background, please
    understand that that might be in the United States. You don't
    know where they came from, their country of origin, what their
    criminal background was in their country of origin, on top of
    the fact that when they had their false documents, if their
    documents said Mickey Mouse, that is what Border Patrol wrote
    down. So how do we know what their backgrounds truly are from
    their home countries when we did no meaningful checking of the
    false documents that they provided to our agencies?
        Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
        Mr. Howell. Congresswoman, to answer the heart of your
    question, I think it's virtually all of the illegals that were
    released into the interior. Just like it's virtually impossible
    for an illegal to get to the Southern Border without going
    through cartel custody, it is virtually impossible for the
    illegals, once they are released, to not reap a direct or
    indirect benefit from the nonprofit system. That's why this is
    so detestable. They had built a system on parallel with the
    cartels. The NGO's and the Biden administration operated as the
    final chain in the link of this human smuggling, not only of
    children, but of everyone who came illegally.
        Mrs. Biggs. Thank you very much. It is very disheartening
    and I appreciate your insight on this.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentlelady yields back.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr.
    Carter, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I wholeheartedly support all of my Democratic colleagues'
    efforts today to demand information and accountability about
    the cruel and profoundly un-American mass deportation agenda
    being undertaken by the Donald Trump administration and his
    allies, as well as this administration's dereliction of duty in
    Federal disaster response amid hurricane season. However, I
    would like to take a few moments to highlight a critical
    financial issue affecting families and businesses in Louisiana:
    flood insurance. Flood risk is not just a coastal issue. It
    affects all of us. Since 1996, flood events have occurred in
    all 50 States and 99 percent of them in U.S. counties. That
    means nearly every single American community has experienced
    economic, environmental, or emotional toll of flooding. With
    climate change intensifying, the frequency and severity of
    major storms, the need for accessible, affordable, and
    transparent flood insurance has never been more urgent.
    Unfortunately, FEMA's implementation of Risk Rating 2.0, the
    new methodology for calculating National Flood Insurance
    Program, NFIP, premiums, have created serious affordability
    problems for our constituents.
        Let me be clear. Congress did not pass legislation to
    mandate Risk Rating 2.0, nor did we have any meaningful input
    in its development. FEMA claims that this overhaul falls under
    its administrative authority. However, FEMA bypassed a formal
    rulemaking process, conducted no economic impact analysis, and
    declined to brief Congress before the implementing of one of
    the most sweeping changes to NFIP in its history. In fact, FEMA
    has continuously refused to release its full Risk Rating 2.0
    methodology. Policyholders do not have access to their property
    level rating factors inputs, except for the few listed on the
    declaration page, which are made available only after coverage
    is purchased. The lack of transparency is unacceptable.
        In my district, the consequences are real and deeply
    concerning. Premiums are rising drastically and, in some cases,
    unpredictably, exasperating our on-going housing affordability
    crisis. Louisiana is not alone in this issue. There are over
    1.5 million policy holders in Florida and approximately 700,000
    in Texas, among others. On average, Risk Rating 2.0 and NFIP
    policies will cost $1,800, representing a 103.6 increase over
    legacy rates. There are 17 States with higher average rates
    than Louisiana. Rates will increase by over 50 percent in 41
    States. Some of the States with the highest average risk rates
    include Maine at 183 percent rate increase, West Virginia at
    171, Mississippi at 149 percent, Florida at 131, and New York
    at 85 percent. Among metropolitan areas, my district in New
    Orleans has the second-highest average insurance coverage
    behind only Miami.
        For working families already struggling to keep up with the
    mortgage payments, high insurance costs could mean having to
    choose between flood protection and other essential needs. Many
    have opted out at NFIP altogether, leaving them and their
    entire communities vulnerable and uninsured in the face of
    disaster. Within just 2 years of implementing Risk Rating 2.0,
    NFIP lost over 215,000 policy holders or nearly 5 percent of
    all policies. States that saw the biggest decline in policy
    holders were West Virginia, losing nearly 20 percent of
    policies, Oklahoma about 18 percent, and Texas with 15 percent
    decline. Not far behind over 1 in 10 policyholders in Louisiana
    has opted out.
        This is not a partisan issue. I have been highly critical
    of Risk Rating 2.0 throughout the Biden administration, with
    even former Secretary Mayorkas acknowledge that Risk Rating 2.0
    is flawed. Yet during both Biden and Trump administrations,
    FEMA continued to push forward without correcting course,
    listening to Congress, or properly engaging the people most
    affected by these changes.
        The bottom line is this: we need a flood insurance system
    that protects, not penalizes, American families. It should be
    grounded in science, equity, and economic reality, but also
    accountability and transparency. Congress must have a role in
    shaping the future of the NFIP and our constituents deserve to
    know how decisions impacting their homes and livelihoods are
    made.
        Mr. Chair, I would like to enter into the record this
    research from the Coalition of Sustainable Flood Insurance,
    which lays out details on this issue.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Carter. As well as a letter from the entire delegation,
    Louisiana delegation, bipartisan Republican, Democrat, my dear
    friend Mr. Higgins, who is not sitting here now, also signed
    off on this letter.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will also be admitted.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Carter. I urge my colleagues to this letter demanding
    information on how public mitigation projects have impacted
    Louisiana. To date we have not gotten any information.
        I urge my colleagues to support the bipartisan, common-
    sense legislative efforts that will bring oversight,
    affordability, accountability, fairness back to the National
    Flood Insurance Program because flood insurance isn't something
    that we should wait. However, we need to do this now.
        Mr. Chairman, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6), rule XI, I move
    that the committee subpoena Elizabeth Ashley, assistant
    administrator of the Federal Insurance Directorate of FEMA to
    provide this committee with the details agencies have been
    withholding from Congress.
        Mr. Guest. Is there a motion?
        Mr. Evans. There is a motion. Move to table.
        Mr. Guest. Motion to table. The gentleman moves to table.
    The motion to table is privileged and nondebatable. We will
    allow a few moments for Members to return to the committee
    room. As the room, let the record reflect, is very vacant at
    this point, so we will suspend momentarily for that to take
    place.
        There has been a motion to table in this matter brought
    forth by Mr. Evans. The motion is privileged. It is
    nondebatable.
        All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.
        All those opposed, please signify by saying no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it. Is there a
    motion?
        Mr. Thompson. Motion to have a recorded vote.
        Mr. Guest. Motion for a recorded vote has been requested by
    the Ranking Member.
        If the Clerk would please call the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        Mr. Pfluger. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
        My apologies. Mr. Pfluger, is that aye? Yes, sir.
        Mr. Garbarino.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        Mr. Brecheen. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Brecheen votes aye.
        Mr. Crane.
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Ogles.
        Mr. Ogles. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles votes aye.
        Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
        Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Nay.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        Mr. Swalwell. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Swalwell votes no.
        Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner.
        Mr. Magaziner. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Magaziner votes no.
        Mr. Goldman.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
        Mr. Hernandez. No.
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who wish to be
    recorded?
        Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chairman has not yet been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. You will please report the totals.
        The Clerk. On that vote, Mr. Chairman, there were 12 ayes
    and 8 noes.
        Mr. Guest. In the opinion of the Chair, based on the
    recorded vote, the motion passes and the request has been
    tabled.
        Mr. Carter, did you yield back? I was trying to think, have
    you yielded the rest of your time? I believe, if I'm not
    mistaken.
        All right. At this time then, the Chair would recognize Mr.
    Evans for 5 minutes for his questioning.
        Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, of course, to
    the witnesses for coming.
        Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the record this
    committee's report from last year in which then-CBP chief
    patrol agents told the committee that ``NGO's will facilitate
    the migrant's travel plans to wherever that's going to be while
    they wait for their immigration hearing.'' And ``Once they're
    released from our custody, the NGO's then provide them with
    potentially transportation up to the Phoenix area or other
    areas of the interior to help them make travel arrangements,
    things like that.''
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, the document will be entered
    into the record.
        [The information follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Also for the record, a
    statement by now-CBP Commissioner Rodney Scott in this same
    report in which he says that cartels and NGO's actually coach
    would-be border crossers on claiming asylum after being
    apprehended by the Border Patrol.
        Mr. Guest. Without objection, it will be entered into the
    record.
        [The information follows:]

       [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Evans. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        For everybody that stuck with us through today, I think it
    has been extremely clear that certain NGO's have benefited
    significantly from the Biden administration's open-border
    policies to the point where they actually found migrants before
    they reached the border to encourage them to illegally enter
    the United States in return for all of the amnesty and other
    benefits they could obtain, more benefits, in fact, than many
    American citizens receive, including free cell phones and
    upscale hotel stays.
        Mr. Howell, first question will be to you. Your
    organization's in-depth study tracked devices given to illegal
    immigrants by border NGO's and showed, unsurprisingly, that my
    part of the world, Denver, Colorado, and the surrounding areas
    was one of their more popular final destinations. The sanctuary
    State policies in Colorado and Denver have allowed NGO's and
    Government entities to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to
    provide services to illegal immigrants and have proliferated
    crime in our area, making Colorado this year the second-most
    dangerous State in the country. When the Biden admin and
    Democrats in Colorado reimburse NGO's to provide these services
    and benefits, how does that incentivize illegal immigration and
    encourage criminal enterprises to conduct business in the
    United States and in places like Denver and Colorado?
        Mr. Howell. Simply put, if you build it, they will come. It
    is a completely cost-free for the illegal alien transportation
    and funding stream with everything they could ever need or
    want, things beyond what are even applied or given to our poor
    and needy in the United States. It also takes a lot of pressure
    off the cartels and makes it much easier for them to sell in
    the first instance for an illegal to come to the border in the
    first place. Don't take my word for it, look how the border is
    secured now. People aren't even trying to come because they
    know these benefits aren't available to them even in the event
    they're able to get in.
        Mr. Evans. Thank you. Ms. Hopper, next question will be to
    you. I was a cop and a soldier for about 22 years combined and
    I am Latino. Unfortunately, I know through those experiences
    and others exactly how bad the crime situation is in Colorado.
    We are the national headquarters for Tren de Aragua, which I
    think we all know now. Violent Venezuelan prison gang that does
    a lot of bad things to include human trafficking.
        You have substantial experience in the dangers that
    unaccompanied minors face on their journey to the border and
    then once released into the United States. Currently, the
    Federal Government is trying to review sponsors in Colorado. We
    have heard earlier today over 300,000 kids that we are trying
    to track down. The Federal Government has reached out to
    Colorado to try to see if these kids that may be in Colorado
    are in safe environments. However, State laws in Colorado that
    my Governor has signed more than once are preventing the
    release of this basic information to Federal investigators and
    obstructing the ability to do just basic safety checks.
        How do State policies that restrict Federal oversight of
    unaccompanied minors and NGO's that fail to properly screen
    these sponsors enable cartels like Tren de Aragua and MS-13 to
    exploit or recruit children in the United States and then,
    again, specifically in sanctuary jurisdictions like Colorado?
        Ms. Hopper. It absolutely encourages cartels and criminal
    networks to direct their activity to sanctuary cities and
    States, knowing that those protections will exist for them and
    knowing that there isn't that cooperation and Federal oversight
    and accountability for that. So, unfortunately, I don't know
    what the motivation is for your State's Governor, and I'm sorry
    for that because of the fact that that isn't helping these
    children, that isn't helping the citizens of Colorado, that
    isn't helping your constituents when you're protecting illegal
    aliens over that of those that elected you.
        Mr. Evans. Thank you. I got 4 seconds, Chairman. Yield
    back.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr.
    Green.
        Mr. Green. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Chairman, I am concerned about children. I am concerned
    about the 37 children who have lost their lives to the
    Guadalupe River in Texas. I am concerned that we are not having
    a hearing to address the needs of these families. These are
    people who had their children at a summer camp. They expected
    to pick their children up. They didn't expect to see their
    children waste away. Many of them haven't been found.
        I am concerned about children, too, but I am concerned
    about all children. I don't segregate children. I don't
    conclude that some children have lives that are worth more than
    others. I want to see something done about those children. Why
    aren't we having a hearing to deal with the needs of the people
    of the State of Texas and other States, too, that may have
    similar needs? I don't segregate. I integrate children. Let's
    do something about all children.
        To proclaim this hearing to be one that is related to
    charities, I am going to defend Catholic Charities. I don't
    believe you think that Catholic Charities would have 65,000
    children mistreated. I just don't believe you think that. I
    don't think so. Catholic Charities does an outstanding job. I
    would love to think that we could resolve all of these things
    today, but apparently we cannot. Let me go to something that I
    think would be relevant for this hearing as it relates to the
    State of Texas.
        This, my friends, is a picture of Mr. David Richardson,
    missing. Have you seen the acting FEMA administrator? Where is
    he? Why is he not here to help us understand what is happening
    to those children in Texas, to explain to those parents why
    FEMA has been feckless and ineffective? I have intelligence in
    my hand indicating that an internal FEMA assessment ordered by
    David Richardson, the current senior official performing the
    duties of FEMA administrator, dated May 12, 2025, paint a dire
    and deeply troubling picture. According to these internal
    reviews, FEMA is fundamentally unprepared to respond to
    national emergencies due to severe workforce reductions. Hello?
    Workforce reductions, terminated contracts, and systemic
    management under the current Trump administration.
        I care about all children. I want to help resolve any
    issues that we have with children. I don't want to see us
    decide that we can't have a hearing to deal with this man who
    is missing in action. Let me have this, please. Missing in
    action. Missing at a time when he ought to be on the ground in
    the State of Texas. Where is he? Why aren't we subpoenaing him?
    Why don't we get him here? Well, let's find out if we really
    are serious about children. Let's find out if we can get him
    here.
        Mr. Chairman, given that the Secretary won't appear and
    can't be subpoenaed because you have already taken that issue
    up, pursuant to clause 2(k)(6) of rule XI, I move that the
    committee subpoena David Richardson, senior official performing
    the duties of FEMA administrator. I want to see where you
    stand. Why can't we have him here? Why can't he come in and
    talk? You have these 3 witnesses here to talk about the other
    children. Good. Let's get him here. I so move, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman's time has expired. Is there a
    motion?
        Mr. Gimenez. Move to table.
        Mr. Guest. Motion to table. All those in favor of the
    motion to table, and before we call the motion, the motion is
    nondebatable and is privileged.
        So all those in favor of the motion to table, please
    signify by saying aye.
        Any opposed, no.
        Mr. Green. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Guest. In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it.
    Yes, sir, Mr. Green.
        Mr. Green. Green of Texas would have this committee go on
    record explaining why.
        Mr. Guest. A recorded vote has been requested.
        Mr. Clerk, you will please call the roll.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Tennessee.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. McCaul.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Higgins.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez.
        Mr. Gimenez. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes no.
        Mr. Pfluger.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Garbarino.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Greene.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Gonzales.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell.
        Mr. Luttrell. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Luttrell votes aye.
        Mr. Strong.
        Mr. Strong. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Strong votes aye.
        Mr. Brecheen.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Ogles.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs.
        Mrs. Biggs. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mrs. Biggs votes aye.
        Mr. Evans.
        Mr. Evans. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Evans votes aye.
        Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Mackenzie votes aye.
        Mr. Knott.
        Mr. Knott. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Knott votes aye.
        Ranking Member Thompson.
        Mr. Thompson. Nay.
        The Clerk. Ranking Member Thompson votes no.
        Mr. Swalwell.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa.
        Mr. Correa. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Correa votes no.
        Mr. Thanedar.
        Mr. Thanedar. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Thanedar votes no.
        Mr. Magaziner.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Goldman.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mrs. Ramirez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy.
        Mr. Kennedy. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Kennedy votes no.
        Mrs. McIver.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Johnson.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Hernandez.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Ms. Pou.
        [No response.]
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter.
        Mr. Carter. No.
        The Clerk. Mr. Carter votes no.
        Mr. Green of Texas.
        Mr. Green. On behalf of the 37 children who have lost their
    lives, Green votes nay.
        The Clerk. Mr. Green of Texas votes no.
        Mr. Guest. Do any Members wish to change their vote?
        Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Chairman, I wish to change my vote to yes.
        The Clerk. Mr. Gimenez votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Are there any other Members who have not yet
    been recorded that wish to vote?
        Mr. Crane. Aye.
        The Clerk. Mr. Crane votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. Mr. Clerk, how am I recorded?
        The Clerk. The Chairman has not been recorded.
        Mr. Guest. Guest votes aye.
        The Clerk. Chairman Guest votes aye.
        Mr. Guest. The Clerk will please report the total.
        The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, on that vote there were 9 ayes and
    6 nays.
        Mr. Guest. The motion to table passes, and the gentleman's
    request for subpoena will not be taken up.
        The gentleman has yielded.
        At this time, the Chair would recognize a gentleman from
    the great State of Pennsylvania, Mr. Mackenzie.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is truly an
    honor to be a Member of the Homeland Security Committee, where
    we deal with so many important issues on a daily basis. The
    breadth of the topics that we are faced with, dealing with, and
    discussing is quite extensive. I look forward to continuing the
    work of this committee on a wide range of issues, some of them
    raised here today as we move forward.
        But the topic at hand is the failings of the Biden
    administration and how NGO's facilitated the Biden border
    crisis, where millions of people entered our country illegally
    during those 4 years. Within that, there was a subset of
    children. Three hundred thousand children were not effectively
    monitored and their whereabouts were sometimes unknown. That
    was questioned by my colleagues on the other side of the aisle,
    and fact checks were done on that.
        What did the fact checks come back with? They said, well,
    you know, the 300,000, it wasn't that they were effectively
    monitored, but there were just 32,000 who didn't show up for a
    court case. So they were at a greater risk of sex trafficking,
    exploitation, or forced labor. Thirty-two thousand children who
    are left vulnerable. My colleagues on the other side of the
    aisle don't want to ask a single question about that? They
    don't want to talk about that topic. They want to sweep it
    under the rug. They want to turn a blind eye. They want to
    pretend that it didn't happen during the Biden administration
    because it is politically inconvenient.
        The welfare of children is something that they don't want
    to talk about all of a sudden because it happened under a
    Democratic administration. We have documented cases of rape of
    children, children working in extremely dangerous conditions.
    Those unaccompanied minors, when they went to do welfare checks
    on them, they are unaccounted for, simply gone. But they don't
    want to ask any questions about that. They don't want to talk
    about it.
        So we have a responsibility as the adults in the room to
    govern, to do oversight, to do these questions that come before
    this committee to make sure every American is safe. As a State
    representative, I contacted the Biden administration about this
    very issue. They didn't respond. I contacted our Democratic
    Governor, he didn't respond. Nobody wants to talk about this
    issue of missing children in our country. So I am glad we are
    having this hearing today because we need to get some answers.
        So my first question is for Mr. Howell. I want to
    understand the flow of money, what appropriation, what line
    item it was in, where it went to DHS, and how it moved to
    either States to facilitate the movement of these children or
    to NGO's.
        Mr. Howell. So for the DHS money, most of it went out
    through FEMA and the SSP program, which was renamed about
    halfway through the Biden administration. It used to be called
    something else, but there would be a series of grant-making
    exercises. A lot of them are publicly posted on-line where you
    can see the main organizations that received it. After that
    there are subgrants and other things. It's very difficult to
    follow the money all the way from Federal Government to end
    recipient, let alone the usage.
        Mr. Mackenzie. So it went through FEMA, which is intended
    for emergency management in situations like we faced in Texas
    and was just talked about, but the money was gone. It was used
    for these programs, you are telling me.
        Mr. Howell. That's absolutely correct. They begged for more
    time and time again.
        Mr. Mackenzie. Simply astonishing that the money would be
    used in that way and not for the safety of the American public
    in emergency situations.
        The next question I have is for Ms. Hopper. Who is supposed
    to have the accountability and responsibility for the well-
    being of the children? When they move from one agency to the
    other, does the accountability and responsibility hand off to
    the next organization or is it Homeland Security, since they
    did the initial intake, they are the ones who should be held
    ultimately accountable?
        Ms. Hopper. It's a very good question. A lot of these
    agencies are pointing fingers at each other. Without a clear
    established person or group or agency that's responsible, you
    had Border Patrol that had 48 hours to move these children,
    these men, these women through. Then they went to HHS, which,
    depending on the situation, would outsource that responsibility
    to NGO's. So without that clear oversight on who was
    responsible, it really makes it challenging to hold people
    accountable.
        But at the end of the day, I would look to whoever is
    issuing the grant. There is a scope, there are deliverables,
    there is requirements that need to be met. So the grant issuer
    is responsible for managing that contract to make sure
    everything is being met before issuing more moneys.
        Mr. Mackenzie. I appreciate that. I see my time is expiring
    and so I would just like to say that this should just be the
    start of the conversation about what we can do to protect
    children in this country. Whether it is more accountability
    that needs to be done at the Homeland Security and officials
    who were in the Biden administration that let this happen, on
    worksite enforcement where children are being employed in
    dangerous, violent situations. Also what we can do to stop
    anything like this from ever happening again by securing our
    border and having ultimate accountability throughout the entire
    chain of custody of these children. I just can't thank you
    enough for being here today. It is an important topic and we
    are going to continue to do oversight as we move forward. Thank
    you.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman yields back.
        The Chairman recognizes the gentlelady from Arizona, Ms.
    Ansari.
        Ms. Ansari. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate
    the opportunity to waive on to the Homeland Security Committee
    today to speak on an issue that is critically important to my
    district in Arizona.
        I represent one of the most diverse districts in the entire
    country where more than 64 languages are spoken. First of all,
    I want to emphasize how vital and life-saving the work of
    NGO's, like Catholic Charities, like the International Rescue
    Committee and like Lutheran Social Services has been to
    constituents in my district. They work day-in and day-out with
    very little resources to serve people.
        The Trump administration's mass deportation policy has
    demonstrably failed our Nation and our values. According to a
    recent Gallup poll, a 62 percent margin of folks disapprove of
    the Trump administration's ineffective, authoritarian, and
    inhumane immigration policies. I have seen the cruel policies
    of this administration first-hand in my district. Separating
    families, masked ICE agents showing up to immigration courts in
    downtown Phoenix where people had appointments ripping people
    away from their families. Detainees in inhumane conditions.
    This includes DACA recipients. This includes green card
    holders. This includes U.S. citizens. Deporting innocent people
    without due process to foreign prisons. It is unconscionable.
        About 1 month ago, I went to the Eloy detention facility
    about an hour outside of my district in Phoenix. I spoke with
    more than a dozen women there who were desperate, devastated
    about the conditions that they are living in, facing
    significant harassment. They described a situation where one of
    the staff members literally forced them outside to march
    outside in 110-degree Arizona heat, marching around for over 2
    hours, yelling at them, ``This is the price of the American
    Dream.''
        This is disgusting. When we are talking about well-being of
    citizens. Even if you believe that these people should not be
    in the United States, it is embarrassing that our country would
    be treating any human being like that.
        So, Mr. Howell, I have a couple of questions for you. Very
    straightforward, yes or no. Do you support this type of
    treatment of human beings?
        Mr. Howell. I'm sorry, I wasn't listening. All the other
    Democrats haven't asked a question, so I kind-of wasn't paying
    attention. Can you restate it?
        Ms. Ansari. OK. The detention center facility conditions in
    this country are atrocious. Women are being harassed, they are
    being dehumanized. In Arizona, they were forced to march
    outside in 120-degree heat until somebody fainted. I have
    visited these detention centers as part of my oversight
    responsibilities. I know you are a big fan of oversight. Do you
    think that is acceptable treatment of human beings by the
    United States of America?
        Mr. Howell. For illegal aliens to be detained throughout
    their immigration proceedings? Yes, I think it's the law----
        Ms. Ansari. To be treated like way. To be treated like
    that.
        Mr. Howell. I'm not taking your word for it.
        Ms. Ansari. OK. On top of that, 17 million Americans were
    just cut off of health care thanks to the vote of all of the
    Republican colleagues over here. Meanwhile, Republicans just
    gave more money to ICE and DHS to the tune of $170 billion. It
    is now one of the largest funded agencies in the world, about
    16th or 17th in terms of what a military would look like for
    other countries. Again, you talked about the importance of
    oversight, Mr. Howell. Do you believe that Members of Congress
    are legally allowed to conduct oversight of ICE detention
    facilities?
        Mr. Howell. As we've written extensively, the Oversight
    Project, because we're trying to help keep your colleagues out
    of jail, like Representative McIver, who was indicted. I
    misspoke when I said she was arrested. You, as an individual
    Member, do not have oversight authority. Oversight authority by
    the rules of the House flows through the full House to the
    Chairman, and that right now is held by the Majority. So
    despite the statute----
        Ms. Ansari. It is legally allowed----
        Mr. Howell [continuing]. That you cite, it's going to end
    up with more Democrats clogging your jails.
        Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, reclaiming my time.
        Mr. Howell. I want to keep you out of jail.
        Ms. Ansari. Reclaiming my time. Thank you. It is actually
    legal for Members of Congress to go to detention center
    facilities that are operated by our Government and to conduct
    oversight. That actually is legally allowed.
        Mr. Howell. That is incorrect.
        Ms. Ansari. We also know that the Trump administration is
    funneling billions and billions of dollars to private for-
    profit prisons. I heard today a number of 6 billion to NGO's
    that you all are so concerned about. The private prison
    companies in this country, like CoreCivic and GEO Group, are
    making billions of dollars in profits because of the massive,
    you know, and stunning corruption. They gave billions of
    dollars to elect Donald Trump. Now we are making sure that they
    make billions of dollars.
        Speaking of sheer corruption and cover-ups for the ultra
    wealthy, Mr. Howell, I know you have spent quite a lot of time
    talking about the importance of releasing the Epstein files,
    but now you are kind-of parroting Trump talking points about
    this being a Democratic hoax. I am wondering if, yes or no----
        Mr. Howell. What did I say?
        Ms. Ansari [continuing]. Do you support the----
        Mr. Howell. Now, what have I parroted?
        Ms. Ansari. Do you support----
        Mr. Howell. About it being a hoax?
        Ms. Ansari. It is a simple yes or no. Do you support----
        Mr. Howell. No, it's not. You said something false. I'm
    asking you to cite what you said, which is clearly false
    because I've not said what you said.
        Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, my question is do you support the
    public release of the Epstein files?
        Mr. Howell. My answer is written in the op-ed in the Blaze,
    which you can read.
        Ms. Ansari. Yes or no? Yes or no?
        Mr. Howell. Listen, ma'am, I am trying to answer your
    question.
        Ms. Ansari. It is a yes or no.
        Mr. Howell. You are lying to the American people.
        Ms. Ansari. I'm asking you a question.
        Mr. Howell. In your misstatements, you just told a lie in
    this committee room.
        Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell----
        Mr. Howell. I'm trying to clear up the record.
        Ms. Ansari [continuing]. It is very simple.
        Mr. Howell. I am trying to answer if you let me speak.
        Ms. Ansari. OK. Do you support it?
        Mr. Howell. I think the public deserves way more
    transparency than we've got. I've written that. You've accused
    me of parroting another talking point----
        Ms. Ansari. It would be wonderful to know that.
        Mr. Howell [continuing]. Which I have not. Bring the
    receipts. You're lying and everybody knows it.
        Mr. Guest. The gentleman will suspend.
        Ms. Ansari. Mr. Howell, I am just asking you a question.
        Mr. Guest. The gentlelady's time has----
        Ms. Ansari. It is a yes or no question.
        Mr. Guest. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        The Chair will now recognize Mr. Knott for 5 minutes of
    questioning.
        Mr. Knott. Mr. Chairman, it is good to be here. Thank you
    for having this hearing. To the witnesses, I would say thank
    you. I think I owe you another thank you. This has been quite a
    long hearing.
        Unfortunately, the Democrats have obstructed, they have
    distracted, and they have refused to engage in this topic
    because it shows that their narrative that they have authored
    is false. That what happened at the border was just perfectly
    in line with the norm. It was beneficial to the country. There
    was nothing they could do about it. Whatever. Whatever
    narrative they have written, it is false.
        This was a designed, intentional, and protected endeavor to
    bring millions of people into this country regardless of the
    consequences. It was designed by the Biden-Harris
    administration. The Democrats on this committee are still
    defending it. It is just astounding. They will not say this
    hurts the American people. Unchecked illegal immigration hurts
    the American people. We could go on and on. I want to give you
    all some time to talk.
        Mr. Howell, starting with you. One of our esteemed
    colleagues on the other side declared that what happened at the
    Biden border was not politically motivated. It was all charity.
    Do you agree with that statement?
        Mr. Howell. Absolutely not. It was a highly coordinated
    plan executed by some of the most radical elements of this
    country for the sole purposes of ushering in a massive border
    crisis, which caused tremendous damage and is still being
    defended to this day.
        Mr. Knott. Does that affect the electoral count or
    Congressional apportionment?
        Mr. Howell. Absolutely. It affects the Census.
        Mr. Knott. Do you think that that is lost on Democratic
    Governors, Senators, and Congressmen, and the Biden-Harris
    administration?
        Mr. Howell. It is absolutely not.
        Mr. Knott. Was there a plan to send them to politically-
    sensitive States?
        Mr. Howell. I think they sent them everywhere. But the
    highest concentrations are the urban areas, which are clearly a
    benefit to the Democrats.
        Mr. Knott. Was there evidence that these individuals here
    illegally were coached on how to register to vote, where to go,
    what to say, how to evade capture from immigration officials?
        Mr. Howell. Correct. It's happening still today with these
    nonprofits coaching them on how to evade. As for the voting, as
    the country's voting system became a laughingstock with the
    mass mail-in ballots, we have evidence from the Biden White
    House of a listening session they held with these radical
    activists where they were encouraging the Biden White House not
    to even ask people if they were citizens before trying to
    register them to vote.
        Mr. Knott. It is worth noting that the Democratic Party is
    staunchly and uniformly against voter ID, no matter what State
    has been proposed. Just a random thought.
        Ms. Hopper, what interest do international parties have in
    sending millions of people to this country illegally, including
    children?
        Ms. Hopper. Particularly the countries that we have
    visited, a lot of the individuals that are leaving are
    criminals in their home countries. So their governments, their
    country's government have no interest in retaining them. You
    are having the worst of the worst leave your country. You are
    having a decrease in crime because the worst of the worst are
    leaving your country.
        Mr. Knott. Is there also financial incentives? Are they not
    sending money out of this country back to their home countries?
        Ms. Hopper. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. They make money in
    this country.
        Mr. Knott. So they are getting rid of criminals and then
    they are taking home money.
        Ms. Hopper. Exactly.
        Mr. Knott. Amazing. You mentioned earlier, I am sorry for
    being quick, there was one person at this call center for
    abused children, 65,000 unanswered phone calls. Let's back up
    before they even got here. How many people were in charge of
    vetting the millions of people that came across the border?
        Ms. Hopper. I would----
        Mr. Knott. Vetting is being used as though it happened.
    Vetting did not happen, did it?
        Ms. Hopper. Not in a meaningful way, no.
        Mr. Knott. It was a process. They were processed into the
    country.
        Ms. Hopper. Supposedly and not in a consistent way.
        Mr. Knott. Right. Now, I have got one more question, Mr.
    Rosas, and I want to give you a chance to respond to Mr. Green.
    He looked right at you and said he didn't believe that you
    really thought that children were mistreated by a charity with
    the name Catholic in it. I want to make a distinction. It was
    not an extension of the Catholic Church. This was a uniformly
    named charity with the word Catholic in it. But I want to give
    you a chance to respond.
        Mr. Rosas. Well, yes, because the reason why that was just
    a weird thing to say is because the people at the border, they
    know how these things work. Right. This isn't new. So these
    NGO's, not just Catholic Charities, a whole bunch of them, they
    knew that the vetting wasn't done, that this was being done
    haphazardly because of the volume. Right. The volume
    overwhelmed the system. So there are shortcuts that need to be
    taken.
        Mr. Knott. By design.
        Mr. Rosas. By design, exactly. So they still took the money
    to do that. They knew that these children were being abused
    before they arrived at the border. That it was probably going
    to happen after they, you know, got to their final destination,
    whether it was a workplace or sexual abuse. They still took the
    money because it was taxpayer dollars and they increased their
    pockets.
        So it's very frustrating because I've seen children as
    young as 7 crossing by themselves. I saw a girl hold a 2-year-
    old, just them. So, you know, he doesn't know me. A lot has
    been said about our credibility, but I've been there and I've
    seen it, and this was a big problem.
        Mr. Knott. Yep. Well, I'll close with this. Again, this was
    the biggest problem that I have seen in my lifetime and it is
    going to take decades to fix. It is astounding that the
    Democratic Party not only built it, not only implemented it,
    but they are still defending it. The American people need to
    know that if they get back in power, those open-border policies
    and the flood of mass migration will return. We cannot let that
    happen.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Knott.
        With consultation with the Ranking Member, there are no
    closing statements in this matter. I would like to thank our
    witnesses for being with us today and would like to remind our
    witnesses that Members of the committee may have additional
    questions for you. We would ask the witnesses to respond to
    these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule VII(E), the
    hearing record will be held open for a period of 10 days.
        Without objection, this committee stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:28 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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