[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                   SURVEILLANCE, SABOTAGE, AND STRIKES: INDUS-
                    TRY PERSPECTIVES ON HOW DRONE WARFARE 
                    ABROAD IS TRANSFORMING THREATS AT 
                    HOME

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                  TRANSPORTATION AND MARITIME SECURITY

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             JULY 15, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-21

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     

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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                               __________
                               

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-404 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Vice       Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
    Chair                                Ranking Member
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Eric Swalwell, California
Michael Guest, Mississippi           J. Luis Correa, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           Shri Thanedar, Michigan
August Pfluger, Texas                Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Julie Johnson, Texas, Vice Ranking 
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma                  Member
Elijah Crane, Arizona                Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              Nellie Pou, New Jersey
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Gabe Evans, Colorado                 Al Green, Texas
Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania         Vacancy
Brad Knott, North Carolina
                    Eric Heighberger, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                                 ------                                

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND MARITIME SECURITY

                  Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida, Chairman
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        LaMonica McIver, New Jersey, 
Elijah Crane, Arizona                    Ranking Member
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
    officio)                         Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                         (ex officio)
             Roland Hernandez, Subcommittee Staff Director
           Alex Marston, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable Carlos A. Gimenez, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Florida, and Chairman, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     3
The Honorable LaMonica McIver, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of New Jersey, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     4
  Prepared Statement.............................................     6
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7

                               Witnesses

Mr. Paul Churchill Hutton, IV, Chief Growth Officer, 
  Aerovironment, Inc.:
  Oral Statement.................................................     9
  Prepared Statement.............................................    10
Mr. Tom Walker, Founder and CEO, DroneUp, LLC:
  Oral Statement.................................................    12
  Prepared Statement.............................................    14
Mr. Brett Feddersen, Vice President, Strategy and Government 
  Affairs, D-Fend Solutions:
  Oral Statement.................................................    20
  Prepared Statement.............................................    22
Mr. Michael Robbins, President and CEO, Association for Uncrewed 
  Vehicle Systems International:
  Oral Statement.................................................    26
  Prepared Statement.............................................    28

 
                 SURVEILLANCE, SABOTAGE, AND STRIKES: 
   INDUSTRY PERSPECTIVES ON HOW DRONE WARFARE ABROAD IS TRANSFORMING 
                            THREATS AT HOME

                              ----------                              


                         Tuesday, July 15, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                        Subcommittee on Transportation and 
                                         Maritime Security,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in 
room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Carlos A. Gimenez 
(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Gimenez, Garbarino, Crane, Biggs 
of South Carolina, McIver, Kennedy of New York, and Carter of 
Louisiana.
    Also present: Representative Pfluger.
    Mr. Gimenez. The Committee on Homeland Security 
Subcommittee on Transportation and Maritime Security will come 
to order.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare the subcommittee 
in recess at any point.
    Today's hearing is examining how drone warfare tactics used 
abroad are transforming threats to our homeland.
    From Ukraine to the Middle East, our adversaries are 
deploying increasingly sophisticated drone capabilities that 
can be adapted by terrorists, lone actors, or State proxies 
within the United States.
    This hearing will explore how industry leaders are 
innovating to help close critical security gaps and better 
protect our transportation systems and infrastructure.
    Without objection, the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Pfluger, 
is permitted to sit with the subcommittee and ask questions of 
the witnesses.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    Good morning. I want to thank everyone for joining us for 
today's hearing, which will examine how drone warfare overseas 
is reshaping the threat environment here at home.
    In recent years, the use of unmanned aircraft systems--or 
drones--by foreign adversaries, terrorist groups, and proxy 
forces has grown significantly.
    Once confined to distant battlefields, these platforms are 
now being deployed in ways that challenge traditional security 
assumptions and expose critical vulnerabilities across our 
homeland.
    Drones have become essential tools of modern warfare. On 
the battlefields of Ukraine, both Russian and Ukrainian forces 
are deploying thousands of drones not only for surveillance and 
artillery targeting, but for direct offensive operations.
    These include quadcopters assembled from commercial parts, 
long-range loitering munitions, and first-person-view kamikaze 
drones enhanced by open-source software. They are low-cost, 
adaptable, and increasingly precise.
    Just weeks ago, Ukraine launched a deep strike inside 
Russian territory using a coordinated wave of drones, damaging 
strategic bombers thousands of miles from the front lines.
    Russia continues to rely on Iranian-made Shahed drones to 
bombard Ukrainian energy infrastructure, saturate air defenses, 
and inflict lasting psychological and economic harm.
    In the Middle East, Iranian-backed groups such as Hezbollah 
and the Houthis have demonstrated the operational reach and 
lethality of these systems. They have targeted U.S. service 
members, international shipping, and critical infrastructure.
    The drone strike that killed 3 American service members in 
Jordan in early 2024 underscored just how dangerous and 
asymmetric this threat has become.
    More recently, during a 12-day conflict last month, Israel 
launched a series of drone and missile strikes against Iranian 
military sites, some originating from launch points within Iran 
itself, illustrating how even layered air defense systems can 
be bypassed using prepositioned commercial technologies.
    What makes these developments more alarming is the 
accessibility of the technology. Many of the systems deployed 
abroad are constructed using commercially-available components 
and open-source software.
    These tools are not limited to nation-states. Lone actors, 
extremists, networks, and transnational criminal organizations 
can easily acquire and weaponize drones with minimal cost and 
training.
    Here in the United States the warning signs are emerging. 
Reports of unauthorized drone activity near airports and other 
critical infrastructure are becoming more frequent. Hundreds of 
sightings have been documented near military installations and 
sensitive energy facilities in the past year alone.
    The potential for a coordinated drone attack on an airport, 
seaport, or mass gathering is a credible and growing threat.
    My home district in South Florida is particularly exposed. 
With major transportation hubs like Miami International 
Airport, the Port of Miami, and a dense network of energy and 
telecommunications infrastructure, we are a high-profile 
target.
    A single drone equipped with an explosive device or 
electronic warfare payload could cause significant disruption, 
physical damage, and wide-spread panic.
    We cannot afford to be reactive. The time to act is now.
    Another concern is the wide-spread presence of Chinese-
manufactured drones operating within the United States.
    DJI, a company based in Communist China, commands a 
significant share of both the global and U.S. commercial drone 
market. Its platforms are used by private industry, lobbyists, 
and even some public safety agencies.
    In fact, even several DHS components have--inexplicably--
used DJI's AeroScope system to monitor drone activity near 
sensitive locations.
    While AeroScope may offer affordable situational awareness, 
it also raises serious concerns about the national security 
risks posed by Chinese-linked technology, especially regarding 
data access, remote control capabilities, and potential 
sabotage during a future crisis or conflict with China.
    Today's hearing will explore what the private sector is 
experiencing on the front lines of drone security, the counter-
UAS tools that are currently available, and the extent to which 
Federal, State, and local authorities are equipped with the 
legal and operational capabilities to address these threats.
    At present, the Department of Homeland Security has limited 
authorities to disrupt or disable malicious drone activity. 
Most State and local law enforcement agencies have no authority 
whatsoever.
    This is a glaring gap in our national preparedness, one 
that we must urgently address as we prepare to host globally 
significant events like the 2026 FIFA World Cup and the 2028 
Summer Olympics.
    We'll also hear testimony on the broader risks posed by 
Chinese-made drones collecting sensitive location data across 
the United States. These systems could be used for surveillance 
or even to carry out attacks.
    This is not simply a question of data privacy. It's a 
matter of homeland security.
    Our adversaries are adapting rapidly. Our defenses must 
keep pace. That means updating our legal authorities, investing 
in next-generation detection and mitigation tools, and 
partnering closely with industry and State and local 
stakeholders.
    I want to thank our witnesses for appearing before the 
subcommittee today and for their continued efforts to keep our 
Nation secure. Your perspectives will help inform the 
committee's work as we seek to close dangerous gaps before they 
are exploited.
    I look forward to your testimony and to a productive 
discussion. Thank you.
    [The statement of Chairman Gimenez follows:]
                  Statement of Chairman Carlos Gimenez
                             July 15, 2025
    Good afternoon. I want to thank everyone for joining us for today's 
hearing, which will examine how drone warfare overseas is reshaping the 
threat environment here at home.
    In recent years, the use of unmanned aircraft systems, or 
``drones'', by foreign adversaries, terrorist groups, and proxy forces 
has grown significantly. Once confined to distant battlefields, these 
platforms are now being deployed in ways that challenge traditional 
security assumptions and expose critical vulnerabilities across our 
homeland.
    Drones have become essential tools of modern warfare. On the 
battlefields of Ukraine, both Russian and Ukrainian forces are 
deploying thousands of drones not only for surveillance and artillery 
targeting, but for direct offensive operations. These include 
quadcopters assembled from commercial parts, long-range loitering 
munitions, and first-person-view kamikaze drones enhanced by open-
source software. They are low-cost, adaptable, and increasingly 
precise.
    Just weeks ago, Ukraine launched a deep strike inside Russian 
territory using a coordinated wave of drones, damaging strategic 
bombers thousands of miles from the front lines. Russia continues to 
rely on Iranian-made Shahed drones to bombard Ukrainian energy 
infrastructure, saturate air defenses, and inflict lasting 
psychological and economic harm.
    In the Middle East, Iranian-backed groups such as Hezbollah and the 
Houthis have demonstrated the operational reach and lethality of these 
systems. They have targeted U.S. service members, international 
shipping, and critical infrastructure. The drone strike that killed 3 
American service members in Jordan in early 2024 underscored just how 
dangerous and asymmetric this threat has become.
    More recently, during a 12-day conflict last month, Israel launched 
a series of drone and missile strikes against Iranian military sites, 
some originating from launch points within Iran itself, illustrating 
how even layered air defense systems can be bypassed using 
prepositioned commercial technologies.
    What makes these developments more alarming is the accessibility of 
the technology. Many of the systems deployed abroad are constructed 
using commercially-available components and open-source software. These 
tools are not limited to nation-states. Lone actors, extremist 
networks, and transnational criminal organizations can easily acquire 
and weaponize drones with minimal cost and training.
    Here in the United States, the warning signs are emerging. Reports 
of unauthorized drone activity near airports and other critical 
infrastructure are becoming more frequent. Hundreds of sightings have 
been documented near military installations and sensitive energy 
facilities over the past year alone. The potential for a coordinated 
drone attack on an airport, seaport, or mass gathering is a credible 
and growing threat.
    My home district in South Florida is particularly exposed. With 
major transportation hubs like Miami International Airport, the Port of 
Miami, and a dense network of energy and telecommunications 
infrastructure, we are a high-profile target. A single drone equipped 
with an explosive device or an electronic warfare payload could cause 
significant disruption, physical damage, and wide-spread panic. We 
cannot afford to be reactive. The time to act is now.
    Another concern is the wide-spread presence of Chinese-manufactured 
drones operating within the United States. DJI, a company based in 
Communist China, commands a significant share of both the global and 
U.S. commercial drone market. Its platforms are used by private 
industry, hobbyists, and even some public safety agencies. In fact, 
even several DHS components have, inexplicably, used DJI's AeroScope 
system to monitor drone activity near sensitive locations.
    While AeroScope may offer affordable situational awareness, it also 
raises serious concerns about the national security risks posed by 
Chinese-linked technology, especially regarding data access, remote 
control capabilities, and potential sabotage during a future crisis or 
conflict with China.
    Today's hearing will explore what the private sector is 
experiencing on the front lines of drone security, the counter-UAS 
tools that are currently available, and the extent to which Federal, 
State, and local authorities are equipped with the legal and 
operational capabilities to address these threats.
    At present, the Department of Homeland Security has limited 
authorities to disrupt or disable malicious drone activity. Most State 
and local law enforcement agencies have no authority at all. This is a 
glaring gap in our national preparedness, one that we must urgently 
address as we prepare to host globally significant events like the 2026 
FIFA World Cup and the 2028 Summer Olympics.
    We will also hear testimony on the broader risk posed by Chinese-
made drones collecting sensitive location data across the United 
States. These systems could be used for surveillance or even to carry 
out attacks. This is not simply a question of data privacy. It is a 
matter of homeland security.
    Our adversaries are adapting rapidly. Our defenses must keep pace. 
That means updating our legal authorities, investing in next-generation 
detection and mitigation tools, and partnering closely with industry 
and State and local stakeholders.
    I want to thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee 
today and for their continued efforts to keep our Nation secure. Your 
perspectives will help inform the committee's work as we seek to close 
dangerous gaps before they are exploited.
    I look forward to your testimony and to a productive discussion.

    Mr. Gimenez. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the 
gentlewoman from New Jersey, Mrs. McIver, for her opening 
statement.
    Mrs. McIver. Good morning. Thank you so much, Chairman.
    Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.
    Before turning to the topic of today's hearing, I want to 
offer my condolences to the families, friends, and loved ones 
of the children and other victims lost in the devastating 
floods in Texas last week. My thoughts and prayers are with all 
those impacted.
    As the affected communities begin to recover from this 
tragedy, I hope our committee will soon have the opportunity to 
examine what went wrong and ensure our Government can better 
respond to future disasters.
    I also want to thank the brave first responders who helped 
prevent further loss of life, including Coast Guard Petty 
Officer Third Class Scott Ruskan of New Jersey and the other 
Coast Guard members on board helicopter 6553 who helped save 
many lives from the floodwaters.
    The emergency response in Texas is actually relevant to 
today's hearing as one helicopter involved in the rescue and 
recovery operations had to be grounded after a collision with a 
private drone flying in restricted air space.
    The incident goes to show the threats drones can pose even 
when operators have no ill intent and the need for more robust 
Government capabilities to address such threats.
    In recent years, drone usage has become commonplace across 
a wide range of applications, from emergency response to 
photography and news coverage. Drone operations provide 
benefits to businesses and hobbyists alike.
    As drone activity increases, we must ensure the Government 
has the authorities and resources necessary to take action 
against drone operators who do not follow the rules, including 
both careless and clueless operators, as well as those who may 
seek to use drones to carry out attacks.
    Though such large-scale attacks have yet to occur within 
the United States, our critical infrastructure, mass 
gatherings, and Government facilities are vulnerable to being 
targeted, especially by lone-wolf actors.
    With the World Cup coming to the United States next year, 
including to MetLife Stadium in my home State of New Jersey, as 
well as the Olympics coming in 2028, the need for Congress to 
extend and expand the Government's counter-drone authorities 
have never been more pressing.
    In October 2018, Congress passed legislation providing the 
Departments of Homeland Security and Justice with limited 
authorities to detect, track, intercept, and seize drones.
    However, just a few months later, incidents at Gatwick 
Airport in England and my home airport, Newark Liberty 
International Airport, displayed the inaccuracy of CUAS 
capabilities as drones shut down airport operations, disrupting 
travel for thousands of passengers.
    Given this subcommittee's jurisdiction over transportation 
security, I am hopeful that any expansion of authorities 
provides a path forward for protecting airports from drones.
    Last year, New Jersey was again the focus of media 
attention as the public reported spotting large numbers of 
drones and unknown aircraft flying over our State.
    Further investigation revealed that the aircraft were most 
likely authorized flights. But, nevertheless, the incident 
revealed the Government's lack of domain awareness and 
capabilities for protecting the national air space.
    Moving forward, Congress must act to extend and expand 
authorities in a matter that provides the capabilities needed 
to counter the threats we face.
    At the same time, we must ensure counter-drone systems are 
operated in a safe and responsible manner that does not impact 
the safety of commercial flights or violate individual privacy 
rights and civil liberties.
    I hope the Republican majority will prioritize moving 
legislation to address counter-drone authority soon.
    Thank you again for our witnesses for joining us today.
    With that, I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member McIver follows:]
              Statement of Ranking Member LaMonica McIver
                             July 15, 2025
    Before turning to the topic of today's hearing, I want to offer my 
condolences to the families, friends, and loved ones of the children 
and other victims lost in the devastating floods in Texas last week. My 
thoughts and prayers are with all those impacted.
    As the affected communities begin to recover from this tragedy, I 
hope our committee will soon have the opportunity to examine what went 
wrong and ensure our Government can better respond to future disasters.
    I also want to thank the brave first responders who helped prevent 
further loss of life, including Coast Guard Petty Officer 3d Class 
Scott Ruskan and the other Coast Guard members onboard helicopter 6553, 
who helped save many lives from the flood waters.
    The emergency response in Texas is actually relevant to today's 
hearing, as one helicopter involved in rescue and recovery operations 
had to be grounded after a collision with a private drone flying in 
restricted air space. The incident goes to show the threats drones can 
pose even when operators have no ill intent--and the need for more 
robust Government capabilities to address such threats.
    In recent years, drone usage has become commonplace across a wide 
range of applications, from emergency response to farming to 
photography and news coverage. Drone operations provide benefits to 
businesses and hobbyists alike. As drone activity increases, we must 
ensure the Government has the authorities and resources necessary to 
take action against drone operators who do not follow the rules--
including both ``careless and clueless'' operators, as well as those 
who may seek to use drones to carry out attacks.
    Recent drone attacks by Russia, Ukraine, and Israel have displayed 
how drones can be used in warfare to deadly effect. Though such large-
scale attacks have yet to occur within the United States, our critical 
infrastructure, mass gatherings, and Government facilities are 
vulnerable to being targeted, especially by lone-wolf actors.
    With the World Cup coming to the United States next year--including 
to MetLife Stadium in my home State of New Jersey--as well as the 
Olympics coming in 2028, the need for Congress to extend and expand the 
Government's counterdrone authorities has never been more pressing. In 
October 2018, Congress passed legislation providing the Departments of 
Homeland Security and Justice with limited authorities to detect, 
track, intercept, and seize drones.
    However, just a few months later, incidents at Gatwick Airport in 
England and my home airport of Newark Liberty International Airport 
displayed the inadequacy of C-UAS capabilities, as errant drones shut 
down airport operations, disrupting travel for thousands of passengers.
    Given this subcommittee's jurisdiction over transportation 
security, I am hopeful that any expansion of authorities provides a 
path forward for protecting airports from drones. Last year, New Jersey 
was again the focus of media attention as the public reported spotting 
large numbers of drones and unknown aircraft flying over our State. 
Further investigation revealed that the aircraft were mostly authorized 
flights, but nevertheless, the incident revealed the Government's lack 
of domain awareness and capabilities for protecting the national air 
space.
    Moving forward, Congress must act to extend and expand authorities 
in a manner that provides the capabilities needed to counter the 
threats we face. At the same time, we must ensure counterdrone systems 
are operated in a safe and responsible manner that does not impact the 
safety of commercial flights or violate individual privacy rights and 
civil liberties. I hope the Republican Majority will prioritize moving 
legislation to address counterdrone authorities soon.

    Mr. Gimenez. I want to thank the Ranking Member.
    Other Members of the committee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
                             July 15, 2025
    I want to begin by offering my condolences to those impacted by the 
tragic floods in Texas. The loss of life is devastating, and my 
thoughts are with the victims, survivors, and their families and loved 
ones. Sadly, the damage wrought by the floods was exacerbated by the 
Trump administration's mismanaged response. I have called on Chairman 
Green to immediately convene a hearing to examine the administration's 
actions to undermine FEMA and our preparedness for the remainder of 
hurricane season. I hope he will answer that call soon.
    In the mean time, today we are here to discuss a different threat 
to the homeland: the threat posed by unmanned aerial systems or drones. 
In 2018, Congress enacted the Preventing Emerging Threats Act of 2018, 
which provided the Departments of Homeland Security and Justice with 
targeted authorities to detect, track, and mitigate unauthorized drones 
that pose a threat to certain facilities, assets, and events. These 
authorities have allowed the Federal Government to begin to develop the 
testing, policies, and processes to procure and deploy effective 
counter-UAS systems and technologies.
    DHS and DOJ have had some significant successes in protecting high-
profile National Special Security Events from unauthorized drone 
incursions. However, the use of drones has continued to proliferate 
rapidly, both domestically and abroad. Drones are used for a wide 
variety of purposes across many sectors, including in emergency 
response, agriculture, law enforcement, photography, and package 
delivery. Drones have also been used in warfare by the United States 
and our allies and adversaries alike, providing militaries and 
intelligence agencies with a novel tool for intelligence, surveillance, 
reconnaissance, interference, and kinetic attacks. Though the vast 
majority of drone use within the United States is harmless and law-
abiding, the use of drones in warfare abroad makes clear the potential 
threats drones may pose to the homeland.
    The potential for bad actors to use drones to carry out attacks on 
mass gatherings, critical infrastructure, and other targets 
necessitates the extension and expansion of authorities for the Federal 
Government and law enforcement partners to detect, track, intercept, 
and seize unauthorized drones flying in restricted air space. The 
Government must have the ability to respond to developing threats and 
prevent attacks. At the same time, authorities must be expanded in a 
manner that protects individuals' privacy and due process rights, as 
well as the safety of the national air space. Already, we have seen the 
potentially damaging effects counter-drone technologies can have when 
operated without appropriate coordination.
    Earlier this year, the U.S. Secret Service allegedly operated a C-
UAS system without clearance from the Federal Aviation Administration, 
resulting in inappropriate automated alerts to several pilots flying 
aircraft near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, which could 
have undermined flight safety. Over the past several years, I have 
worked in a bipartisan manner with colleagues across the committees 
with shared jurisdiction to develop legislation to extend and expand 
counterdrone authorities in a significant yet thoughtful manner. Last 
Congress, Chairman Green introduced H.R. 8610, the Counter-UAS 
Authority, Security, Safety, and Reauthorization Act, which I supported 
as a cosponsor.
    The bill would have extended and expanded C-UAS authorities in 
several key ways, including by establishing a DHS pilot program for 
State and local law enforcement agencies to receive counterdrone 
mitigation authorities. The Transportation and Infrastructure Committee 
reported the bill with bipartisan support last September, but House 
Republican leadership never called the bill up for floor consideration. 
I have continued to work with my colleagues to refine the legislation 
and expect we will reintroduce a version of it soon. I hope the 
Republican Majority will act swiftly to advance the bill to the floor, 
through the House, and ultimately into law.
    The threats posed by drones are too critical for Congress to wait, 
especially given the need to protect upcoming events including the 
World Cup and the Olympics. Thank you again to our witnesses for 
joining us today to discuss these critical challenges.

    Mr. Gimenez. I'm pleased to have a distinguished panel of 
witnesses before us today on this critical topic.
    I ask that our witnesses please rise and raise their right 
hands.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Gimenez. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative.
    Thank you, and please be seated.
    I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses.
    Mr. Church Hutton serves as AeroVironment's chief growth 
officer, a role he assumed in May 2025 to lead the company's 
strategic expansion and long-term growth initiatives.
    Prior to this, he served as senior vice president of 
government relations, marketing, and communications beginning 
in 2024 where he played a key role in shaping AeroVironment's 
public profile and strengthening relationships with government 
stakeholders.
    A retired Army officer and combat veteran, Mr. Hutton spent 
a decade in senior staff positions on Capitol Hill, including 
on the professional staff of the Senate Appropriations and 
Senate Armed Services Committees.
    Mr. Tom Walker is the founder and chief executive officer 
of DroneUp, a leading U.S.-based drone technology company 
specializing in advanced American-made unmanned aerial systems 
and integration services.
    Under his leadership, DroneUp has become a key industry 
innovator, supporting a wide range of mission-critical 
operations, including border security, emergency response, 
infrastructure monitoring, and last-mile logistics.
    Prior to founding DroneUp, Mr. Walker served nearly 17 
years as a U.S. Navy officer where he led efforts to modernize 
digital systems and enhance operational support for the United 
States and allied special operations forces.
    Mr. Brett Feddersen serves as the vice president for 
strategy and governmental affairs at D-Fend Solutions, where he 
oversees the company's strategy, public policy, and engagement 
with U.S. Government agencies, policy makers, and regulators.
    Prior to joining the private sector, he held senior 
executive roles across the Federal Government, including the 
Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of Defense, and 
the White House. He is also a retired U.S. Army lieutenant 
colonel and a former Pennsylvania State trooper.
    Mr. Michael Robbins is president and chief executive 
officer of the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems 
International, the world's largest trade association for 
uncrewed systems, robotics, and autonomous technologies, 
representing companies in both the commercial and defense 
sectors.
    He joined the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems 
International in 2020 and previously served as chief advocacy 
officer. Michael is also presently serving as an officer in the 
United States Navy Reserve.
    I thank each of our distinguished guests for being here 
today.
    I now recognize Mr. Hutton for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF PAUL CHURCHILL HUTTON, IV, CHIEF GROWTH OFFICER, 
                      AEROVIRONMENT, INC.

    Mr. Hutton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member McIver, and distinguished 
Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify on drone warfare abroad and how it's informing domestic 
investments that will help us prepare for threats here in the 
United States.
    I commend the committee's focus on these challenges and 
your efforts to enhance the safety of the American people and 
U.S. transportation systems.
    My name is Church Hutton. I serve as the chief growth 
officer at AV, formerly AeroVironment. It is my pleasure to 
testify alongside my industry partners in highlighting the 
challenges and opportunities of providing effective 
capabilities to our service members and first-line responders 
in light of the lessons learned from drone warfare abroad.
    By way of background, AV is the top producer and supplier 
by volume of unmanned aerial systems, or UAS, to the Department 
of Defense, as well as the leading provider of counter-UAS 
solutions deployed overseas actively protecting Americans, 
allies, and critical infrastructure abroad. This gives us a 
holistic view of UAS threats, mitigation tools, and the 
implications for both to U.S. homeland security.
    With major public events on the near horizon, including the 
World Cup, as you said, Chairman, America's 250th anniversary 
celebrations, and the 2028 Summer Olympics, we have a 
collective need to apply these lessons to address threats to 
U.S. infrastructure and public safety.
    Collaboration between Congress and industry is essential to 
ensure the safety of the American people and critical 
infrastructure from the evolving threat.
    Effective collaboration has a few basic tenets. The first 
is that we learn the lessons of the foreign drone experience; 
that authorities are granted to Federal and State agencies to 
deploy safe and effective UAS solutions in what are clearly 
complex jurisdictional scenarios; and finally, that Congress 
provide flexible funding so that Government agencies can 
validate and adopt technology quickly.
    State and non-State actors have increased access to drone 
capabilities and have demonstrated their ability to achieve 
lethal effects.
    The rapid evolution of small drone systems in conflicts, as 
demonstrated by Operation Spider's Web in Ukraine and of course 
Israel's recent campaign against Iran, emphasized the need for 
agile real-time collaboration to field detection and 
interdiction tools.
    These threats, of course, are not limited to overseas 
conflicts. UAS increasingly threaten U.S. critical 
infrastructure with techniques like drone swarming and GPS and 
radar jamming.
    Recent aerial intrusions highlight the need for advanced 
detection and mitigation technologies to protect our space and 
maritime domains.
    Additionally, acquisition processes must evolve to deliver 
necessary capabilities. We advocate for agile development and 
deployment of affordable open systems, clear operational 
authorities, and Government-industry partnerships to address 
these threats effectively.
    U.S.-based defense innovators have developed systems to 
detect, track, and counter these threats that you'll hear about 
today.
    To meet these challenges, the defense industrial base 
requires strong demand signals, enabling policies, and 
streamlined authorities. We must act decisively to prevent 
foreign battlefield lessons from becoming domestic threats.
    AV and other innovative companies stand ready to 
collaborate and provide solutions, but policy inertia and 
acquisition drag remain significant obstacles.
    Collectively, we'll either address these issues now, before 
we suffer a major drone attack in the homeland, or we'll 
address them afterward, but certainly we will have to address 
them.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hutton follows:]
            Prepared Statement of Paul Churchill Hutton, IV
                              8 July 2025
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member McIver, and distinguished Members 
of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity today to testify on 
how drone warfare abroad is transforming and informing domestic 
investments to prepare for threats here in the United States. I commend 
this committee's focus on these national security challenges along with 
your efforts to enhance the safety of U.S. transportation systems. The 
collaboration between Congress and industry is essential to keeping the 
American people and critical national infrastructure safe from today's 
rapidly-evolving drone threats.
    AV has a unique vantage point in this space as the top producer and 
supplier of Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) to the Department of Defense 
(DoD) coupled with our layered counter-UAS solutions deployed to 
multiple conflict zones abroad. This gives us a holistic view of the 
UAS threats, mitigation tools, and relevant implications for homeland 
security. The lessons we have learned from operations abroad underscore 
the urgent need to address this threat with greater speed and resolve 
to protect critical U.S. infrastructure and public safety including at 
high-visibility events like the 2026 FIFA World Cup, America's 250th 
birthday celebrations, and the 2028 Summer Olympics. In order to 
accomplish this goal, we believe it is vital that the U.S. Government 
and Industry have 3 key things in place: (1) a resolve to adopt lessons 
learned from real operational feedback; (2) flexible sources of funding 
to modify or scale up the production and delivery of new, software-
defined platforms that can be updated in response to evolving threats, 
and (3) the necessary authorities to allow Federal and State government 
users to employ technology solutions in what we know are complex 
jurisdictional scenarios.
                    threats and evolving environment
    As a former soldier who benefited from DoD's nascent UAS arsenal 
over 2 decades ago, I commend this panel for bringing awareness to the 
American people regarding the proliferation of UAS technology--
particularly how its capability, lethality, availability, and quantity, 
when combined, can enable malign actors to threaten unprotected 
infrastructure and lives.
    Looking abroad, Ukraine's recent ``Operation Spider's Web'' against 
Russia's strategic bomber infrastructure demonstrated the precision, 
reach, and destructive ability of small UAS. Spider's Web highlighted 
the rapid evolution of small drone system capabilities at an affordable 
cost. The reports of covert Ukrainian launches from inside Russia 
emphasize the need for agile, real-time Government and industry 
collaboration to develop detection systems and interdiction tools here 
at home. Municipal, State, and Federal agencies need to adequately 
prepare for unmanned and increasingly autonomous systems in their 
public safety and security strategies.
    More recently, in June 2025, during a 12-day conflict with Iran, 
Israel coordinated a drone and missile campaign targeting Iranian air 
defenses, ballistic missile platforms, and command infrastructure. 
While Israeli fighter jets visibly degraded Iran's missile sites and 
attacked military personnel, Israeli drones, pre-positioned 
quadcopters, and internet-connected launch platforms operated from 
within Iran, showcasing this new frontier of drone warfare.
    The implications for the defense of our homeland is significant. 
The use of drones built from commercial parts and operated with minimal 
infrastructure is increasingly plausible by proxy networks or lone 
actors on domestic soil. Techniques like drone swarming, GPS jamming, 
and antiradar flights, perfected abroad, could be adapted to threaten 
critical U.S. infrastructure.
    In the maritime environment, UAS pose a significant threat to 
shipping in vital trade chokepoints. From 2023 to 2024, there were over 
50 UAS incidents in the Red Sea, many involving direct attacks or 
surveillance of commercial vessels. The increasing frequency and 
sophistication of these drone operations, by state and non-state actors 
alike, highlight the urgent need for improved countermeasures to 
protect critical maritime infrastructure.
    Closer to home, unidentified aerial objects have reportedly entered 
U.S. air space off the East Coast and have raised national security 
concerns. From 2021 to 2024, over 30 incidents were reported, with 
objects demonstrating advanced maneuverability and speed. These 
incursions underscore the critical need for advanced detection and 
mitigation technologies to protect key maritime regions and ensure U.S. 
air space security.
    Activities at the Southern Border continue to pose a direct threat 
to our homeland, as transnational criminal organizations, gangs, and 
extremist organizations adopt UAS to aid in their transport of illicit 
material into the United States. The defense industrial base is poised 
to work with Congress and our Executive branch counterparts to ensure 
we are prepared for UAS incursions and possible attacks through our own 
borders.
    Many of your industry partners recognize these threats and are 
developing robust countermeasures today. Although these investments are 
taking place, many challenges remain--requiring Congressional, Federal 
Executive, plus State, local, and municipal action.
                               challenges
    Traditional defense acquisition processes are inadequate to deliver 
the capabilities necessary to outpace the fast-evolving UAS threat. We 
can no longer afford multi-year requirements development followed by 
lengthy science and technology experimentation cycles. Government and 
industry must work together to develop and field new agile counter-UAS 
programs, and pair these programs with key authorities designed to 
protect critical infrastructure.
    Effective solutions require affordable, open, and adaptable 
technologies rather than high-cost, proprietary systems. Operational 
clarity and streamlined authorities are essential for establishing 
guidelines for UAS detection and defeat within domestic air space. 
Government and industry partnership will benefit all parties, 
maximizing innovative and delivering cost-effective solutions.
    Solutions must be tailored to meet the unique demands of countering 
UAS threats. To succeed, we need acquisition reform--but we also need 
operational clarity. Homeland security stakeholders must work together 
to establish operational directives that define authorities for UAS 
detection, identification, and defeat in domestic air space and enable 
responsible action under clearly-defined legal and safety parameters.
    The rapid increase in UAS lethality--as demonstrated in the Ukraine 
conflict, where drones now cause the majority of casualties--serves as 
a stark warning. Our traditional defenses and authorities have not kept 
pace, and we must act swiftly to prevent similar threats against our 
infrastructure and population.
                             opportunities
    U.S.-based defense innovators are developing promising systems to 
detect, track, and defeat UAS threats. Soft-kill techniques, such as 
jamming or radio frequency (RF) manipulation, have dominated this space 
in the past 5 years. In an effort to combat these defensive tactics, 
adversaries increasingly employ drones guided by fiber optics, 
preprogrammed autonomy, various frequency bands, or cellular signals. A 
few systems, like ours at AV, have capabilities against GPS. The 
existing authorities make it difficult to utilize these advanced 
technologies, so we are expanding our ability to counter peer threat 
capable systems. In parallel, we must continue the development of hard-
kill solutions--systems that physically destroy or disable drones.
    As has been heard in testimony before other House committees, the 
President's budget requests critically-needed investments in drone 
technologies and policy changes to improve acquisition and production 
of drone systems, at scale. The Government is poised to be able to take 
advantage of fast-moving private-sector innovation to field low-cost, 
attritable, kinetic, and non-kinetic UAS and counter-UAS systems.
    Detection technologies, directed energy (laser) and kinetic defeat 
capabilities offer a promising path forward. The U.S. Army, for 
example, has demonstrated the effectiveness of high-energy laser 
systems deliver hard-kill effects with minimal collateral damage. When 
combined with acoustic sensors, passive radar, and software-defined 
radio receivers, this creates an integrated drone shield that can be 
safely deployed in mixed civilian environments focused today on small 
and medium-sized UAS at close range. Kinetic alternatives, like the 
Army's Next Generation Counter-UAS Missile, complement directed energy 
solutions, allowing affordable defense at greater range, elevation, and 
weather scenarios, though the employment of these systems would be 
limited in accordance with the sensitivity of the protected 
infrastructure and public safety requirements. Kinetic solutions are 
more effective against large UAS, which have been used extensively in 
Ukraine and the Middle East. These offerings provide alternatives to 
the unsustainable practice currently employed of shooting down low-cost 
drones with multi-million-dollar weapons systems, which are expended 
upon use and difficult to replace.
    These technologies are ready, but they require strong demand 
signals, enabling policies, and streamlined authorities to mature and 
scale. Without decisive action, the United States risks trailing our 
adversaries' rapid innovations. We need expanded authorities for UAS 
defeat operations inside U.S. borders, clear operational doctrines, and 
funding structures that reward responsiveness. With additional 
authorities and funding, the defense industrial base can meet the needs 
of the country. Affordable, attritable platforms at mass are 
transforming the way in which we fight and are rapidly evolving in a 
way that necessitates we take advantage of solutions available today, 
both custom and commercial. We commend the DoD's continued efforts to 
eliminate overly bureaucratic processes and fund the fielding of 
systems across all domains.
    AV, alongside other forward-leaning, innovative U.S. companies, 
stands ready to meet this challenge. However, policy inertia and 
acquisition drag--not technology--remain our most significant 
obstacles. It is encouraging to see agencies like DoD, DHS, and Members 
of Congress and committees like yours begin to take steps to rectify 
the issues we face today. All parties understand that we must act now 
to prevent foreign battlefield experiences from becoming domestic 
tragedies.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to 
your questions.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Hutton.
    I now recognize Mr. Walker for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF TOM WALKER, FOUNDER AND CEO, DRONEUP, LLC

    Mr. Walker. Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member McIver, and 
Members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity 
to testify this morning.
    My name is Tom Walker. I am the CEO of DroneUp and a former 
U.S. Naval officer, and I lead one of the Nation's top drone 
technology companies.
    Over the past decade, I've been proud to play a part in the 
evolution of uncrewed systems from novelty tools to essential 
elements of our critical infrastructure.
    Today, we've all seen that these systems are also emerging 
as national security threats.
    DroneUp has operated one of the most significant drone 
services operations in the United States with tens of thousands 
of operators. We also built one of the most extensive drone 
delivery networks in the world.
    Through our work with the FAA and the national defense 
agencies, we have gained direct operational insight into both 
the extraordinary promise and the real dangers of drone 
technology.
    Today, our air space faces an urgent threat. In the first 
quarter of 2025 alone, the FAA recorded more than 400 illegal 
drone incursions over U.S. airports, representing a 25 percent 
increase over the same period last year. The military 
documented or reported 350 unauthorized flights over more than 
a hundred bases.
    These are not isolated events. They are growing, sustained, 
and increasingly malicious.
    In one case, persistent hostile drone activity forced the 
relocation of F-22 Raptors at Langley Air Force Base in 
Virginia. Despite weeks of investigation by the Pentagon, the 
FBI, and NASA, the operators were never identified.
    As a veteran, it scares the hell out of me to imagine if 
something like that had happened during Operation Midnight 
Hammer.
    Just 2 weeks ago, as the Ranking Member mentioned, during 
high-intensity search-and-rescue operations amid the July 4 
flash floods in Texas, a privately-operated drone struck a 
rescue helicopter over Kerr County forcing it to land and 
taking it out of service while dozens were still missing.
    Fortunately, no one was injured in the accident. However, 
the incident could have had very different outcomes. It's the 
latest reminder that these are not hypothetical threats. They 
are happening now in active emergency zones and putting lives 
at risk.
    These threats now affect nearly every sector that is 
exposed to air space misuse, including commercial aviation, 
critical infrastructure, prisons, and public events. Drones 
have recently collided with manned aircraft and in some cases 
have grounded emergency response efforts.
    Criminals have used drones to drop contraband into 
correctional facilities. They have conducted surveillance on 
energy facilities and seaports.
    This is no longer theoretical. The systems meant to stop 
this are simply not up to the task.
    The root problem is simple: We do not have an integrated 
national framework for drone oversight. The system we were 
promised still does not exist.
    We rely on fragmented tools. We rely on unconnected 
sensors. We rely on outdated approval processes. This creates 
blind spots. It slows response time and it leaves critical 
infrastructure exposed.
    But the solutions are within reach. The technology to keep 
Americans safe exists today.
    We must mandate a national real-time flight information 
exchange. We need a low altitude air space coordination system 
that provides law enforcement, regulators, and commercial 
operators with a real-time view of what is flying, where it is, 
and its intentions.
    We must unify all flight authorizations into a single 
secure process. We must bind pilot, drone, and mission data 
together, using cryptographic credentials to prevent spoofing.
    All aircraft, manned and unmanned, should electronically 
broadcast their position to reduce collision risk and remain 
visible in our air space.
    Remote ID signals must be authenticated and protected from 
spoofing. Detection systems, such as radar, RF, and acoustic 
tools, must be fused into a single integrated surveillance 
picture.
    The FAA should publish national mission priority tables. 
This must digitally be enforced by the authorization system so 
that emergency and critical flights are automatically 
prioritized.
    America must equip and empower local law enforcement by 
expanding its counter-UAS authority. Today, only a handful of 
Federal agencies are authorized to act against rogue drones. 
That must change before the current authority sunsets in 
September.
    This is no longer a concern for the future. It's a present-
day crisis. Each delay increases our exposure to a serious 
event. The technology is ready. What we need now is clear 
direction and decisive action.
    I stand ready to assist the committee in protecting our 
national air space and ensuring the safe, responsible growth of 
uncrewed systems in the United States.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Walker follows:]
                    Prepared Statement of Tom Walker
                              July 8, 2025
                        introduction and purpose
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member McIver, and Members of the 
committee: I am Tom Walker, chief executive officer of DroneUp and a 
former U.S. naval officer. Throughout my career, from military service 
to leading one of the Nation's largest uncrewed aviation networks, I 
have witnessed the rapid evolution of drone technology, both in its 
ability to serve the public and in the emerging risks it poses to 
national security.
    My written testimony provides operational data and first-hand 
insights from thousands of commercial drone missions conducted across 
the United States. These missions have revealed consistent 
vulnerabilities in our air space and infrastructure that warrant urgent 
attention from the Federal Government.
    I will also outline practical measures that government and industry 
can take together to close these gaps, improve air space coordination, 
and reduce the risks posed by uncrewed systems.
    I appreciate the committee's leadership on this issue and stand 
ready to support efforts to ensure the safety, security, and 
scalability of U.S. air space.
                     background and qualifications
    DroneUp was founded in 2016 to scale drone services nationwide. We 
built what became the world's largest drone services network, 
activating tens of thousands of independent drone pilots nationwide.
    We subsequently launched the largest drone delivery operation in 
the country at that time, with the capacity to serve nearly 4 million 
households through partnerships with major retailers and State 
governments.
    As part of that effort, we operated 34 drone hubs in 6 States, 
including Chairman Gimenez's home State of Florida. We obtained FAA 
Part 135 Air Carrier Certification and gained first-hand insight into 
both the operational potential and the technical limitations of drone 
systems at scale.
    As our operations expanded, it became clear that the most 
significant constraint was not aircraft performance or logistics. The 
limiting factor was the absence of a technological foundation to safely 
integrate uncrewed systems into national air space. Ensuring future 
aviation safety, protecting critical infrastructure, and maintaining 
safe separation between crewed and uncrewed aircraft requires a 
systems-level solution.
    Today, DroneUp focuses on integrating autonomous air space using 
AI-enabled technology. Our platform enables real-time deconfliction, 
autonomous flight coordination, and persistent situational awareness in 
dynamic and high-risk environments. We collaborate directly with 
Federal regulators, defense agencies, and commercial operators to close 
security and operational gaps that traditional aviation systems were 
never designed to address.
    This perspective is grounded in real-world operational experience 
and technical development. It reflects what we are already observing in 
the field and what must now be done to protect the air space.
                    overview of the threat landscape
    As of mid-2025, the United States is facing a sharp escalation in 
drone-related threats across aviation, infrastructure, and national 
security. In the first quarter of 2025 alone, the FAA recorded 411 
illegal drone incursions near U.S. airports, a 25.6 percent increase 
over the same period in 2024 (FAA).
    Separately, U.S. Northern Command documented over 350 unauthorized 
drone flights across more than 100 military installations in 2024 (Fox 
News).
    These are not isolated incidents. They are active, sustained, and 
growing. They disrupt flight operations, interfere with emergency 
services, and expose vulnerabilities at military and civilian 
facilities nationwide.
    This is not a domestic problem alone. Internationally, drones have 
shut down major airports, penetrated secure sites, and been used for 
espionage, sabotage, and targeted attacks. When drone activity shut 
down London's Gatwick Airport for 33 hours in 2018, it disrupted 1,000 
flights and stranded over 140,000 passengers (BBC). That type of 
disruption is no longer hypothetical here. It is beginning to happen on 
U.S. soil.
    The threat is real, immediate, and growing faster than our ability 
to contain it.
                          threats to aviation
    Drones now pose a direct and rising risk to manned aviation in the 
United States. In 2024, they accounted for nearly two-thirds of all 
reported near-mid-air collisions at the Nation's 30 busiest airports, 
according to analysis by the Associated Press and NASA's Aviation 
Safety Reporting System (AP News, The Sun).
    Pilots have reported drones within hundreds of feet of commercial 
aircraft during takeoff and landing:
   A quadcopter flew within 300 feet of a jetliner's cockpit on 
        approach to San Francisco International (AP News)
   A drone was observed at 4,000 feet near Miami International
   At Newark Liberty, a drone came within 50 feet of a 
        departing jet's wing.
    The FAA continues to receive over 100 drone sighting reports every 
month near U.S. airports (FAA).
    The trend is accelerating, and these are not all near misses. In 
January 2023, an F-16 fighter jet collided midair with a drone during a 
training mission over Arizona (AZFamily). In January 2025, a drone 
struck a Los Angeles County firefighting aircraft during an emergency 
evacuation, tearing a 6-foot hole in the wing and grounding the 
aircraft while 192,000 residents were under evacuation orders (ABC7, 
AP).
    The threat is global. In September 2023, a Virgin Atlantic Boeing 
787 carrying 264 passengers narrowly avoided a drone collision just 
after takeoff from Heathrow Airport. U.K. aviation authorities 
described it as one of the closest calls on record (D-Fend Solutions).
    Many of these drones are too small to appear on radar and are often 
operated by individuals who may not be visible to authorities. Without 
stronger detection systems, improved coordination, and apparent 
enforcement authority, the risk to commercial and emergency aviation 
will continue to grow.
                   threats to critical infrastructure
Military Installations
    Drone incursions into U.S. military air space have reached 
unprecedented levels. In December 2023, Langley Air Force Base in 
Virginia experienced 17 consecutive nights of drone overflights. 
Witnesses described formations as large as 20 feet long, traveling at 
100 miles per hour, and reaching altitudes of 3,000 to 4,000 feet (Task 
& Purpose). The incident forced the relocation of F-22 Raptor aircraft 
and the suspension of training operations. Despite weeks of 
investigation by the Pentagon, FBI and NASA, the drone operators were 
never identified.
    In December 2024, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base was forced to 
close its air space for 4 hours due to heavy UAS activity. Controllers 
reported multiple unidentified drones operating over the facility (CNN, 
The War Zone).
    These are not hobbyist drones. These are sustained, strategic 
incursions targeting sensitive national security infrastructure.
Energy Infrastructure
    In 2024, over 13,000 drone incursions were detected at U.S. power 
generation sites. Analysts estimate that 60 new vulnerability points 
are added to the grid every day (E&E News, Dedrone). The Department of 
Homeland Security has warned that extremist actors and foreign 
adversaries have considered using drones for surveillance or sabotage.
    In January 2024, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security 
Agency and the FBI issued a joint advisory warning that Chinese-
manufactured drones operating in the U.S. energy and telecommunications 
sectors could expose sensitive data to foreign access (CISA).
Prisons
    Drones are now a standard tool for delivering contraband into U.S. 
prisons. From 2023 to 2024, Georgia reported 774 drone sightings at 
State correctional facilities. Of these, 720 involved contraband drops, 
including drugs, weapons, and cell phones. The incidents led to over 
540 felony arrests. At Washington State Prison alone, authorities 
intercepted 21 drone drops in 1 year, arresting more than 40 
individuals linked to smuggling operations (WGXA News).
Public Events
    In 2023, NFL stadiums reported 2,845 unauthorized drone incursions, 
up from just 67 in 2018, a 4,145 percent increase (Reuters). The NFL, 
Department of Justice, and FBI have all called on Congress to expand 
detection and mitigation authority to protect public events.
Ports and Maritime Infrastructure
    America's maritime transportation system underpins more than $5.4 
trillion in economic activity and carries over three-quarters of all 
U.S. trade, according to the 2023 Cyberspace Solarium Commission and 
independent StateScoop reporting. (cybersolarium.org, Statescoop.com)
    Yet ports remain attractive, under-protected targets. The Port of 
Los Angeles blocked roughly 60 million attempted cyber-intrusions every 
month in 2023, up from 7 million in 2014, its chief information 
security officer told trade press and security researchers. (ajot.com, 
amu.apus.edu)
    At the same time, the U.S. Coast Guard warns that unauthorized 
drone flights over sensitive maritime facilities have become ``a common 
occurrence,'' and that most local authorities still lack the equipment 
and legal authority to detect or interdict them. (hstoday.us)
    These low-cost aircraft can hover above container stacks, record 
ship movements, and capture other line-of-sight intelligence that 
traditional perimeter systems cannot block, exposing a critical gap 
between the economic value of U.S. ports and the security resources 
dedicated to protecting them.
         conclusion: a growing gap between threat and response
    These incidents are not anomalies. They reflect an accelerating 
pattern. Drone technology is becoming faster, cheaper, and easier to 
operate, while our detection systems, legal authorities, and response 
capabilities have not kept pace. From airliners and emergency aircraft 
to power grids, prisons, and ports, drones are exposing fundamental 
operational gaps.
    If these vulnerabilities are not addressed with urgency and 
coordination, it is not a matter of if they will be exploited, but when 
and with what consequence.
    the system we were promised still doesn't exist, and the gap is 
                               dangerous
    By 2017, NASA's UTM trials had demonstrated that data-driven 
services, rather than radio calls, could safely manage low-altitude 
drones. The industry told Congress that a nationwide system was 
imminent. Every drone would file a digital plan, receive near-instant 
clearance, and broadcast a trusted ID while shielding crewed aircraft 
and sensitive air space.
    Eight years on, that promise remains unfulfilled. LAANC automates 
only the simplest flights; Remote-ID is little more than a broadcast 
license plate; and the architecture intended to weave authorization, 
intent, surveillance, and enforcement into a single safety net stalled 
at the prototype stage. The low-altitude NAS is a patchwork of manual 
waivers, siloed registries, partial awareness, and policy-only 
defenses.
    Nine critical gaps keep the system fragmented:
    1. Patchwork Authorization.--Anything beyond basic flights slides 
        into slow waivers; approval pipelines don't share live pilot, 
        aircraft, or risk data, so regulators default to broad caps no 
        one can enforce.
    2. Fragmented Identity.--Pilot certificates, hull IDs, 
        Authorizations, and Restrictions all live in different 
        databases. Nothing cryptographically binds drone + pilot + 
        mission.
    3. No Live Intent Ledger.--While each DSS can expose only minimal 
        ``need-to-know'' metadata, each USS keeps its complete plans 
        private. Multiple DSSs can overlap but federate only on a best-
        effort handshake, with no cryptographic trust anchor or shared 
        governance in place. The result: no authoritative, real-time 
        ledger of intent, leaving controllers, law enforcement, and 
        defense without a complete situational picture or conformance 
        guarantee.
    4. Prototype-level UTM Functions.--While basic constraint ingestion 
        has been proven, functions such as collaborative detect-and-
        avoid, demand/capacity balancing, and dynamic rerouting remain 
        at the prototype stage, even as low-altitude drone activity 
        continues to rise faster than the supporting infrastructure can 
        keep pace.
    5. Policy-only Protection.--Flight rules, TFRs, and NOTAMs depend 
        on voluntary compliance. The 2018 Gatwick shutdown demonstrated 
        how quickly policy can fail when authorities can't verify or 
        neutralize a rogue drone. The recent withdrawal of manufacturer 
        geofences further widens the exposure.
    6. Thin Cooperative Detection.--Remote-ID has a limited range, can 
        be spoofed, and has experienced slow adoption; significant gaps 
        exist in conformance validation and law enforcement's ability 
        to respond.
    7. Invisible Manned Traffic.--ADS-B Out is mandatory only in 
        controlled cores. Below 10,000 ft or outside Mode C veils, 
        numerous helicopters and general aviation aircraft fly 
        electronically dark. Drones must either hire human spotters or 
        stay grounded, while manned pilots receive no warning, creating 
        an asymmetric blind spot that endangers safety and national 
        security.
    8. Siloed Non-cooperative Sensors.--Radar, RF, acoustic, and EO/IR 
        feeds terminate in siloed consoles. Without a consolidated 
        fusion layer that de-duplicates tracks, tags provenance, and 
        applies confidence scores, agencies lack an authoritative air 
        picture; low-signature threats slip through the seams while 
        false alarms drain resources.
    9. Minimal Enforcement Tools.--Many agencies lack the resources, 
        statutory authority, or training to act; penalties rarely deter 
        non-compliance.
    These gaps compound: the labyrinthine nature of authorizations, 
weak identity, a missing intent ledger, and endless prototype tests and 
deployments have left the NAS blind. Policy-only protection and scant 
enforcement embed risk; asymmetric conspicuity and unfused sensors 
hamper both safety and security. Domestic incidents, from prison 
contraband drops to critical-infrastructure overflights, are 
accelerating, and foreign actors already field swarm-scale, AI-directed 
drone operations that would overwhelm today's fragmented defenses.
    Without a fully digital, interoperable, security-grade low-altitude 
traffic management and security backbone, we risk ceding safety, 
commerce, and strategic credibility. Closing these gaps requires a 
cohesive national program. One that unifies real-time authorization and 
intent data, provides universal e-conspicuity for every aircraft, fuses 
cooperative and non-cooperative sensor feeds, and ensures adequately 
funded enforcement and training, so that every flight is known, every 
risk is quantified, and every violation is actionable.
     building a safe, trusted, and scalable low-altitude air space
    What we need today is not theoretical. It is practical, achievable, 
and urgent. The foundation is simple. If something is in the sky, we 
should know what it is, who is operating it, whether it belongs there, 
and how to respond if it does not.
    establish a national low-altitude information & flight exchange
    The exchange will provide every UAS Service Supplier and Government 
stakeholder with a live, sub-second view of low-altitude air space by 
requiring them to publish their flight data to, and subscribe to, a 
common event bus protected by role-based access control. An immutable, 
cryptographically-signed ledger will preserve each transaction, 
enabling regulators, first responders, and counter-UAS systems to 
verify provenance and reconstruct events with forensic certainty.
             deploy a unified flight-authorization service
    This service will replace disparate grids, waivers, and letters of 
authorization with a single standards-based API. Operators will submit 
an Operational Intent that describes their mission and objectives. The 
service will automatically validate air space status, aircraft 
performance, crew credentials, and relevant exemptions, and then issue 
a digitally-signed authorization token. The token will be broadcast via 
Remote-ID during flight and stored in the National Low-Altitude 
Information and Flight Exchange, providing field personnel with instant 
compliance checks and enabling the FAA with a tunable, permission-
verified control point for all mission types.
                 mandate digital credentials & binding
    Verifiable credentials will cryptographically bind pilot, aircraft, 
flight plan, and authorizations. Any mismatch or change in 
authorization will block take-off and trigger immediate alerts. Public-
safety officers will resolve a Remote-ID signal to a licensed operator 
with one query, and insurers will rely on tamper-evident evidence after 
an incident.
                require universal electronic conspicuity
    All crewed and uncrewed aircraft will transmit a verifiable 
position signal using on-board equipment or low-power beacons. Making 
every aircraft electronically visible balances the see-and-avoid burden 
and enables safe, scalable drone operations nationwide.
             implement network remote-id & non-repudiation
    Add a compact cryptographic signature to every Remote-ID packet, 
broadcast or on-line, so the Unified Flight Authorization Service, 
public-safety observers, and counter-UAS sensors can verify 
authenticity within milliseconds. Spoofed or replayed identifiers will 
be flagged instantly, while genuine packets will flow unchanged into 
the National Low-Altitude Information & Flight Exchange as tamper-proof 
evidence. Every legitimate drone in U.S. air space will thus carry a 
verifiable, non-repudiable identity, providing regulators, integrators, 
and first responders with the cryptographic certainty needed to 
automate trust decisions at machine speed.
                 adopt a mission-priority rules engine
    Embed a five-tier priority framework directly in the authorization 
service so emergency, public-safety, and critical-infrastructure 
flights automatically outrank commercial and recreational missions. The 
engine will eliminate manual deconfliction and restore predictability 
for time-sensitive operations.
      build a sensor-fusion backbone for low-altitude surveillance
    Fuse cooperative tracks from the National Low-Altitude Information 
& Flight Exchange with radar, RF, acoustic, and electro-optical 
detections provided by Government and commercial sources. Privacy 
controls will permit graduated data disclosure, ensuring that all 
authorized users, from airport towers to local law enforcement, use the 
same trusted, continuously-updated common operating picture.
                       launch a friend-or-foe api
    Provide authorized sensors and effectors with a one-call verdict: 
COMPLIANT, UNKNOWN, or HOSTILE, plus confidence and priority metadata. 
This API will shorten decision cycles, reduce friendly-fire risk, and 
log every query for after-action accountability.
                operate a flight-restricted-area service
    Publish a single, near-real-time catalog of restricted air space,  
2209 critical-infrastructure sites, stadium Temporary Flight 
Restrictions, wildfire boxes, VIP security rings, and temporary 
counter-UAS volumes, and push updates digitally within seconds. The 
authorization service will validate the current catalog during planning 
and periodically in flight. If a change is detected, onboard logic will 
force a reroute or a safe landing, delivering geofence-like protection 
in a standardized, manufacturer-agnostic format.
            fund a local enforcement equip-and-train program
    Supply State, local, Tribal, and territorial agencies with multi-
band Remote-ID receivers tied into the National Low-Altitude 
Information & Flight Exchange, a Friend-or-Foe-enabled mobile 
application, and concise on-line training. Statutory amendments will 
authorize certified officers to order landings or seize non-compliant 
aircraft, transforming Federal data streams into actionable local 
enforcement.
       start a vehicle-to-vehicle spectrum & standards initiative
    Kick off a technical and regulatory effort to identify and allocate 
low-latency spectrum for direct detect-and-avoid messaging between 
crewed and uncrewed aircraft, while deferring any equipage mandate 
until the Unified Flight-Authorization Service and Universal Electronic 
Conspicuity have operated long enough to reveal any remaining mid-air-
collision risk.
                          why time is critical
    The pace of the drone threat is outstripping our national response. 
What was once a future-looking concern is now a present and growing 
danger. The volume, complexity, and frequency of drone-related 
incidents are rising across every major sector: commercial aviation, 
military installations, public infrastructure, law enforcement 
operations, and emergency services. Each passing month adds to the 
evidence that we are operating in a risk environment that is evolving 
faster than our laws, technologies, and authorities can keep up.
    This urgency is not abstract. It is measurable in hard numbers and 
operational strain. In the first quarter of 2025 alone, drone 
incursions near airports increased by more than 25 percent compared to 
the previous year. Security officials at military bases are now forced 
to treat drone sightings as recurring operational threats rather than 
one-off anomalies. Emergency response aircraft have been grounded mid-
mission. Correctional facilities and utility providers are managing not 
theoretical vulnerabilities, but routine air space violations.
    What makes the current threat especially urgent is that many of the 
most critical policy tools to address it already exist on paper, but 
have not been implemented. For example, FAA Section 2209, mandated 
initially in 2016, was intended to create a process for restricting 
drone flights over critical infrastructure. Nearly 9 years later, the 
rule remains unfinalized, leaving power plants, refineries, and other 
sensitive sites without the reliable Federal protection they need.
    Similarly, the FAA's long-awaited rule to enable beyond visual 
line-of-sight (BVLOS) drone operations remains delayed. This rule is 
essential not only for commercial expansion but also for ensuring the 
safe and scalable use of drones in emergency response and 
infrastructure monitoring. Its continued absence has created both 
operational inefficiencies and potential safety risks.
    Most concerning is the limited authority for detecting and 
neutralizing rogue drones. As of today, only a handful of Federal 
agencies have narrowly defined counter-UAS mitigation authority. State 
and local law enforcement, as well as most infrastructure operators, 
remain legally barred from using even basic mitigation tools. 
Bipartisan proposals to expand this authority have been repeatedly 
drafted, but Congress has yet to act. If the current Federal authority 
sunsets in September 2025 as scheduled, no agency, Federal or local, 
will have a clear legal ability to respond to a malicious drone in real 
time.
    We are approaching a point where the probability of a serious 
incident, such as a downed aircraft, a disrupted power grid, or a mass 
evacuation triggered by an air space breach, is no longer low. Without 
coordinated action, the current patchwork of regulations and 
capabilities will leave critical gaps that adversaries, criminals, or 
careless actors can continue to exploit.
    The United States has the technological capacity to lead in the 
safe and secure integration of drones. But every delay in closing these 
policy and infrastructure gaps increases the risk to public safety and 
national security. Time is not neutral. Inaction allows the threat to 
mature, while preparedness becomes more difficult and costly.
    We are not sounding the alarm in anticipation of a future crisis. 
We are responding to the reality that the crisis has already begun. The 
question before us is how quickly we choose to act.
                     conclusion and call to action
    The vulnerabilities outlined in this testimony are not theoretical; 
they are real and present a significant risk. They are documented, 
active, and growing. The threats posed by uncrewed aerial systems to 
aviation safety, critical infrastructure, and national security have 
increased in frequency, complexity, and impact. At the same time, the 
systems designed to detect, identify, authorize, and respond to these 
threats remain fragmented, underdeveloped, and in many cases 
unenforced.
    The foundational technologies required to close these gaps are 
already available. Real-time air space coordination, digital flight 
authorization, cryptographically-verifiable credentials, secure 
identity broadcasts, and integrated sensor fusion are not experimental. 
These capabilities have been demonstrated in operational environments 
and validated through collaboration between Government and industry. 
What remains is the directive to implement them at scale.
    To that end, I respectfully submit the following priorities for 
immediate Congressional action:
    1. Mandate the establishment of a national real-time low-altitude 
        air space coordination framework. This system must integrate 
        flight intent, identity, and enforcement data into a single 
        operational platform.
    2. Require digital credentialing that binds pilots, aircraft, 
        missions, and authorizations. This will enable instant 
        validation of lawful flights and allow for automated detection 
        of non-compliant activity.
    3. Implement a universal electronic conspicuity requirement for all 
        crewed and uncrewed aircraft operating below 18,000 feet. This 
        is essential for ensuring visibility and reducing the risk of 
        mid-air collisions.
    4. Finalize FAA Section 2209 and direct the creation of a Federal 
        flight-restriction service. This service must provide a 
        machine-readable feed that all drones and autopilot systems 
        consult before and during flight.
    5. Expand counter-UAS detection and mitigation authority to 
        qualified State, local, Tribal, and territorial agencies. 
        Oversight and safeguards must be in place, but these agencies 
        need the authority to act.
    6. Fund and deploy a local law enforcement equip-and-train program. 
        This program must provide officers with the tools, training, 
        and legal clarity to verify and respond to drone threats in the 
        field.
    7. Require the FAA to implement a unified flight authorization 
        service. This service should support all drone operations 
        through a single digital process from request to real-time 
        verification.
    Each of these actions addresses a core structural weakness that has 
allowed unregulated drone activity to outpace national preparedness. 
These are not isolated or speculative risks. They are recurring 
incidents that have grounded emergency aircraft, disrupted commercial 
aviation, penetrated military air space, and exposed key infrastructure 
to surveillance and interference.
    The time line for addressing these issues is urgent. As the pace of 
drone innovation continues to increase, so does the risk of a high-
consequence event. The United States cannot afford to treat low-
altitude air space as an ungoverned or optional domain. It must be 
protected with the same level of accountability and structure applied 
to every other mode of transportation that affects public safety and 
national defense.
    Congress has both the authority and the responsibility to ensure 
this system is put in place. The tools are ready. The risks are known. 
The solution is feasible. What is needed now is coordinated direction 
and the will to act.
    I thank the committee for the opportunity to provide this written 
testimony. I stand ready to support any effort that will help secure 
the national air space system and enable the safe, scalable, and 
responsible integration of uncrewed aircraft systems in the United 
States.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Walker.
    I now recognize Mr. Feddersen for 5 minutes to summarize 
his opening statements.

  STATEMENT OF BRETT FEDDERSEN, VICE PRESIDENT, STRATEGY AND 
              GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS, D-FEND SOLUTIONS

    Mr. Feddersen. Good morning, Chairman Gimenez, Ranking 
Member McIver, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. 
Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you on matters 
of critical importance to the national security and public 
safety of our country and our citizens.
    My name is Brett Feddersen. I am the vice president of 
strategy and government affairs at D-Fend Solutions, the 
leading counter-drone manufacturer of radio frequency cyber 
takeover solutions for drone threats, both domestically and 
internationally.
    I also serve as the chair of the Security Industry 
Association's drone security subcommittee and have been working 
on the drone and counter-drone problem set since 2008. During 
my time in the military, as a Federal civilian, and in the 
private sector, we've seen this problem grow.
    Today, I hope to help the subcommittee better understand 
how overseas drone operations are transforming domestic risk 
vectors, the status of the U.S. capabilities and legal 
frameworks, and offer targeted recommendations for Congress to 
bolster detection, interdiction, and resilience against drone-
borne threats in the United States homeland.
    Drones have transitioned from niche reconnaissance tools to 
central components of modern warfare. Their wide availability, 
small size, low cost, and modular payloads make them attractive 
for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, as well as 
destruction of critical infrastructure and effective delivery 
of ordnance.
    In conflicts outside the United States, inexpensive 
commercially-available drones and do-it-yourself drones have 
become the weapon of choice.
    Alarmingly, these same drones are flown across the United 
States every day. There are over 1 million drones registered in 
the United States according to the FAA, and that number is 
predicted to grow to 2.7 million by 2027.
    The weaponization of private drones in the United States is 
also a significant and growing concern. While drones have been 
beneficial applications with public safety and various 
industries, their potential misuse, especially when armed, 
poses challenges for law enforcement and national security.
    Battlefield tactics, techniques, and procedures for drones 
have proliferated through the internet and are ready to be used 
today.
    During my time at the FAA, we received several videos and 
briefings showcasing drones outfitted with chainsaws, 
flamethrowers, firearms, and makeshift chemical dispensers.
    Just weeks ago, the world witnessed a historic shift in 
small drone warfare. Ukraine's planning and execution of 
Operation Spiderweb has rewritten the rule book on drone 
threats: distance, cost, and autonomy no longer constraining 
our adversaries.
    The audacious plan involved Ukraine striking Russian air 
bases up to 3,100 miles from the battlefield using small 
commercially-available AI-enabled drones.
    For context, this is equivalent to conducting an attack by 
drone in Los Angeles, California, from your home in Cape Cod, 
Massachusetts.
    This attack demonstrates the capability to build and deploy 
do-it-yourself drones at scale and at distance, accurately 
delivering ordnance to create strategic impact and fast 
destruction of significant assets.
    An attack like this can be prevented today using current 
safe and effective counter-drone technology, such as RF cyber 
takeover technology which can detect, track, identify, and take 
control of the drone, then landing it safely when and where law 
enforcement or security want it to.
    This type of technology is legal and safe to use. It does 
not violate privacy laws or Fourth Amendment protections. And 
it does not implicate Federal wiretap or pen trap statutes or 
regulations.
    According to the FAA data and previous DOD testimony, drone 
incursions have steadily increased since the establishment of 
the Federal counter-drone authorities in 2018. That 5-year 
pilot program is now in its seventh year.
    First responders report that drones are tailing SWAT teams, 
dropping contraband into prisons, spying on neighbors, and 
hovering over chemical plants.
    While the threat is local, the legal tools remain 
predominantly Federal in nature.
    DHS, DOJ, the security industry, State and local law 
enforcement, Tribal and territorial law enforcement agencies, 
along with trained security professionals, have repeatedly 
urged Congress to expand authorities to enable air domain 
awareness and drone protection in American communities and over 
our critical infrastructure.
    Unfortunately, those requests have not resulted in any 
expanded new authorities and limited authorities since 2018 
have been periodically renewed only for short periods of time, 
creating uncertainty for law enforcement and the industry.
    To summarize, drone warfare abroad has evolved rapidly over 
the past decade. Regrettably, U.S. legislation, regulation, and 
policy has not. Today, we should acknowledge the topic of drone 
threats in our homeland is neither timely nor new.
    What we can say is that the threat is real, the United 
States is vulnerable, and that without bold and immediate 
legislative action the American public will remain unprotected 
from a drone attack.
    The industry agrees an attack is only a matter of time. It 
is not a matter of if it will happen.
    I strongly urge the subcommittee and the full committee to 
take immediate action in meaningful bipartisan legislation.
    The industry, public safety professionals, and American 
public are calling for 3 simple actions that can be taken now 
to make Americans and our skies safer.
    Expand authorities to State and local law enforcement and 
trained security professionals guarding our critical 
infrastructure.
    Develop and implement a counter-UAS training program using 
a Federally-accredited curriculum.
    Provide dedicated funding programs that enable critical 
infrastructure operators to procure, train, deploy, and operate 
counter-UAS systems.
    Thank you for your leadership and the opportunity to appear 
before you. I look forward to taking your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Feddersen follows:]
                 Prepared Statement of Brett Feddersen
                              July 8, 2025
                              introduction
    Chairmen Gimenez and Green, Ranking Members McIver and Thompson, 
and distinguished Members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before you on matters critically important to 
the national security and public safety of our country and its 
citizens.
    My name is Brett Feddersen, and I am the vice president of strategy 
and government affairs at D-Fend Solutions, the leading counter-drone 
manufacturer of radio frequency (RF)-cyber takeover solutions for the 
drone threat, both overseas and in the United States. I also serve as 
the chair of the Security Industry Association's (SIA) drone security 
subcommittee and have been working on the drone and counter-drone 
problem set since 2008, during my time in the military, as a Federal 
civilian, and in the private sector. Today, I am honored to appear 
before the subcommittee representing both D-Fend Solutions and the 
drone security industry.
    Bottom line up front: Drone warfare abroad has evolved rapidly over 
the past decade, with State and non-State actors fielding drones for 
surveillance, sabotage, and strikes in theaters from Eastern Europe to 
the Middle East. Tactics refined in these conflict zones--persistent 
reconnaissance, weaponized loitering munitions, and saturation swarm 
attacks--are now manifesting as emerging threats to U.S. homeland and 
national security.
    These threats are here to stay and mean that things like our 
critical infrastructure--such as power grids, water treatment plants, 
transportation networks, and communication systems--is increasingly 
vulnerable to threats from nefarious actors who can exploit drones' 
capabilities, including surveillance, sabotage, and payload delivery, 
to conduct physical attacks. Successful drone attacks on critical 
infrastructure can lead to power outages, transportation disruptions, 
communication failures, and substantial economic consequences. More 
concerning is the potential for the loss of human life, for example, a 
drone using aerosol dispersal or payload delivery over a mass gathering 
can cause mass panic, causing serious injury or even death to 
attendees. Confronting this reality requires a proactive and multi-
layered homeland defense strategy that includes early detection, safe 
and effective mitigation technologies, and updated security protocols.
    From local football games to open-air shopping centers, large 
gatherings of Americans are part of our everyday lives and remain 
incredibly vulnerable to drone-based threats. As the United States 
prepares to host high-profile, global sporting events like the 2026 
FIFA World Cup and the 2028 Olympics, I am grateful that the committee 
is closely overseeing the threat environment and preparations for these 
events and is willing to engage in difficult conversations surrounding 
our real vulnerability and capability gaps.
    Today, I hope to help the subcommittee better understand how 
overseas drone operations are transforming domestic risk vectors, the 
status of U.S. capabilities and legal frameworks, and offer targeted 
recommendations for Congress to bolster detection, interdiction, and 
resilience against drone-borne threats in the United States homeland.
                modern drone warfare abroad and at home
    Drones have transitioned from niche reconnaissance tools to central 
components of modern warfare. Their wide availability, small size, low 
cost, and modular payloads make them attractive for intelligence, 
surveillance, and reconnaissance missions, as well as the destruction 
of critical infrastructure and the effective delivery of ordnance.
    Just weeks ago, the world witnessed a historic shift in small drone 
warfare. Ukraine's planning and execution of Operation Spider Web has 
rewritten the rulebook on drone threats: distance, cost, and autonomy 
no longer constrain adversary reach. Below are key counter-drone 
lessons drawn from Ukraine's Operation Spider Web--an audacious 
campaign in which Ukraine struck Russian airbases up to 5,000 km (3,106 
miles) from the front using small, commercial AI-enabled drones. This 
is farther than driving from New York City to Los Angeles.
Rear Areas Are Not Safe
   Ukraine proved that ``strategic depth'' offers no immunity: 
        drones launched from deep inside friendly territory reached 
        ostensibly secure Russian airfields, destroying billions of 
        dollars' worth of aircraft. Defenders must extend coverage well 
        beyond the front lines to include logistics hubs, maintenance 
        depots, and forward operating bases.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ American University, ``Ukraine's Operation Spider Web Upended 
Traditional Rules of War,'' June 5, 2025. Benjamin Jensen; 
chathamhouse.org american.edu.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Defense in Depth--Layer Every Segment
   Traditional point-defense systems (e.g., local radar or a 
        single interceptor battery) were overwhelmed. Operation Spider 
        Web integrated covert logistics, telecom exploitation, and 
        ground infiltration to bypass singular defenses, underscoring 
        the need for a layered approach to counter-drone detection (RF, 
        radar, EO/IR) and mitigation (RF cyber takeover, electronic 
        warfare measures, and directed energy).\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Counter-UAS Hub, ``Putting Operation Spider's Web in Context,'' 
June 20, 2025, Ben Connable; cuashub.comirregularwarfare.org.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resilience to Jamming and GPS Denial
   Spider Web's drones used dead-reckoning navigation and 
        civilian cellular (SIM-card) links rather than GPS, making them 
        resilient to traditional GNSS jamming. Given this, counter-
        drone systems should include extensive RF spectrum monitoring, 
        non-GPS-dependent geofencing, and safe mitigation techniques 
        that can detect, take control of, or disrupt alternate control 
        channels.
    In conflicts outside the United States, inexpensive, commercially 
available, and do-it-yourself (DIY) drones have become the weapon of 
choice. Alarmingly, these same drones are flown across the United 
States every day. There are over 1 million drones registered with the 
FAA in the United States--a number that is predicted to grow to 2.7 
million by 2027.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ FAA, ``Drones by the Numbers,'' updated April 1, 2025, https://
www.faa.gov/node/54496; ``Drone Operations,'' Government Accountability 
Office, https://www.gao.gov/drone-operations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The weaponization of private drones in the United States is a 
significant and growing concern. While drones have beneficial 
applications in public safety and various industries, their potential 
for misuse, especially when armed, poses challenges for law enforcement 
and national security. Battlefield tactics, techniques, and procedures 
for drones have proliferated through the internet, and the same drones 
used in combat overseas are available and in use here in the United 
States.
    During my time at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), we 
received several videos and briefings showcasing drones outfitted with 
chainsaws, flamethrowers, firearms, and makeshift chemical dispersal 
systems. We have witnessed rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) warheads and 
grenades being dropped from simple commercial and do-it-yourself (DIY) 
drones. Additionally, we have seen drones equipped with modified 
shotguns used to shoot down other drones.
Key Concerns and Examples of Weaponization
   Potential for Malicious Use.--Drones can be easily outfitted 
        with various weapons, including firearms, explosives, 
        incendiary devices, or even chemical or biological agents, 
        posing a risk to individuals, critical infrastructure, and 
        Government facilities.
     Terrorism.--Terrorist organizations can adapt and exploit 
            drone technology to target public spaces and 
            infrastructure, potentially magnifying casualties and 
            damage. Cartels operating in Mexico along the U.S. Southern 
            Border are already using weaponized drones to drop munition 
            payloads.
     Drone swarms.--Coordinated attacks utilizing drone swarms 
            can overwhelm traditional defenses and enhance the 
            effectiveness of sabotage operations.
   Drone Incursions and Modern Espionage.--There have been 
        numerous drone incursions over sensitive sites, including 
        military bases and critical infrastructure, raising concerns 
        about potential threats. Drones can be used for corporate and 
        foreign espionage, including surveillance of facilities, 
        intimidation through observation, and even cyber attacks by 
        leveraging proximity to networks.
   Smuggling and Criminal Activity.--Drones are used by 
        criminals for illegal drug shipments, delivery of contraband 
        into prisons, and counter-surveillance of law enforcement.
   Privacy Concerns.--Drones equipped with cameras and other 
        sensors can be used for unauthorized surveillance and invasion 
        of privacy.
   Interference with Public Events and Aircraft.--Unauthorized 
        drone flights can disrupt public events and pose a risk to 
        aviation safety, including the potential for collisions with 
        manned aircraft.
    Common commercial drones have already been used in attempts to 
destroy or damage critical infrastructure, and we continue to see 
variations of weaponized drones attempting to attack the public in the 
heartland and law enforcement in cities and on the border.
   2020 Pennsylvania Power Substation Incident.--A modified 
        drone was discovered outside an electrical substation in 
        Pennsylvania. It was equipped with a copper wire, likely 
        intended to create a short circuit and disrupt power. The drone 
        crashed before reaching its target, but it highlights the 
        potential threat.
   Attempted Attack in Nashville (2024).--A man was arrested in 
        November for planning to use a weapon of mass destruction to 
        attack an energy facility in Nashville. Court documents 
        indicated he planned to use a drone to deliver an explosive.
   Suspicious Drone Activity Near Energy Sites (2024).--In 
        December, multiple energy sites requested temporary flight 
        restrictions due to unusual drone activity in New Jersey, New 
        York, and Maryland. Although the operators weren't identified, 
        this incident reflects the on-going concern about drone 
        threats.
What is Our Current Air Space Protection Posture?
    Over the years, drones have evolved from simple weekend toys to 
sophisticated tools used for smuggling, corporate espionage, and 
terrorist surveillance. Unfortunately, Federal policies have struggled 
to keep up with these emerging threats, leaving State, local, Tribal, 
and territorial (SLTT) law enforcement agencies in a challenging 
position and their constituents unprotected. These agencies and trained 
security professionals are on the front lines protecting critical 
locations--such as stadiums, power plants, and city skylines--but they 
face legal restrictions that prevent them from effectively addressing 
drones that pose a danger to these sites and the American public.
    As you know, only a few Federal law enforcement components in the 
Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Justice (DOJ), and Defense 
(DoD)--have explicit legal authority under 6 U.S.C.  124(n) and 10 
U.S.C.  130(i) to detect and mitigate (or stop) illicit drone 
activities. Other entities, including State and local police 
departments and trained security professionals, must rely on Federal 
support or remain powerless, while unidentified drones fly dangerously 
over parades, concerts, major sporting events, and critical 
infrastructure. By their own admission, the DOJ and DHS can only 
respond to less than 1 percent of the thousands of counter-drone 
operational requests they receive each year.
    According to FAA data and previous DoD testimony, drone incursions 
have steadily increased since the establishment of Federal counter-
drone authorities in 2018. First responders report that drones are 
tailing SWAT teams, dropping contraband into prisons, spying on 
neighbors, and hovering over chemical plants. While the threat is 
local, the legal tools remain predominantly Federal in nature.
    In 2014, while serving as the National Security Council Director 
for Aviation Security at the White House, we encountered drone 
incursions on the White House and Capitol campuses. Subsequently, the 
interagency met to develop a response plan for these ``non-traditional 
aviation threats.'' As a result of these efforts, the FAA received 
Congressional direction to begin testing counter-drone technology 
systems in 2016. In 2017, the Department of Defense was granted 
additional authorities. In 2018, Congress authorized a 5-year pilot 
program for Federal law enforcement as part of the FAA Reauthorization 
process to provide counter-drone authorities to the Department of 
Homeland Security (DHS) and the Department of Justice (DOJ). Seven 
years later, these authorities remain unchanged.
    DHS, DOJ, the security industry, and State, local, Tribal, and 
territorial (SLTT) law enforcement agencies and trained security 
professionals have repeatedly urged Congress to expand authorities to 
enable air domain awareness and drone protection in American 
communities and over our critical infrastructure. Unfortunately, those 
requests have not resulted in any expanded or new authorities, and the 
limited authorities from 2018 have been periodically renewed only for 
short periods of time, creating uncertainty for law enforcement and the 
industry.
               legislative recommendations and next steps
    The President's recent Executive Orders are a good start to address 
our legislative and regulatory inaction. However, Executive action 
alone is not a permanent shield--it can be revoked by future 
administrations or challenged in court. Congress must move now to 
codify SLTT counter-UAS authorities with the same privacy safeguards 
and oversight as outlined in President Trump's Executive Orders.
    I strongly urge the subcommittee and full committee to take 
bipartisan legislative action now. The industry, public safety 
professionals, and the American public are calling for 3 simple actions 
that can be taken immediately to make Americans and our skies safer.
    1. Expand the current 6 U.S.C.  124(n) detection and mitigation 
        authorities to all SLTT-LE and trained security professionals, 
        safeguarding our critical infrastructure, and amend 49 U.S.C.  
        14501 to include an explicit ``Counter-UAS Exception,'' 
        authorizing approved non-Federal entities to employ safe and 
        effective, non-kinetic mitigation under DHS oversight.
    2. Develop, implement, and oversee a counter-drone operator 
        training regime, using a Federally-accredited curriculum 
        required for all counter-drone operators using approved 
        mitigation technology; and
    3. Provide dedicated funding programs that enable critical 
        infrastructure operators to procure, train, deploy, and operate 
        counter-drone systems deemed safe and effective by the Federal 
        Government.
                               conclusion
    The tactics developed in overseas drone conflicts--such as 
persistent surveillance, sabotage using payload delivery, loitering 
munitions, and swarm saturation strikes--are now poised to harm us at 
home. The increasing number of drone incursions into sensitive air 
space we've seen in recent years should serve as a loud and distinct 
alarm bell, warning us of the immediate necessity for deploying safe 
and effective counter-drone technology to enable rapid response 
capabilities. While the industry has developed effective detection, 
identification, and mitigation solutions, challenges such as legal 
uncertainties, regulatory delays, and funding shortages are hindering 
nationwide implementation. To address these issues, Congress should 
clarify its legal authorities, streamline the approval process, and 
establish dedicated funding. This will enable U.S. stakeholders to 
effectively deter and counter drone-related threats before they reach 
our shores. Now is the time to strengthen our defenses in the skies 
before tomorrow's headlines report the first successful drone strike on 
U.S. soil.
    Thank you for your leadership and the opportunity to appear before 
you today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have.



    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you Mr. Feddersen.
    I now recognize Mr. Robbins for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statements.

 STATEMENT OF MICHAEL ROBBINS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, ASSOCIATION 
           FOR UNCREWED VEHICLE SYSTEMS INTERNATIONAL

    Mr. Robbins. Thank you, Chairman Gimenez and Ranking Member 
McIver and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. It's an 
honor to be with you here again today and to represent AUVSI 
and our member companies that are providing solutions in 
aviation and national security every day.
    We're at a pivotal moment in aviation history. Drones and 
advanced aviation are unlocking tremendous gains for safety, 
security, technology, and economic opportunity.
    These technologies, they're no longer theoretical. They're 
delivering real-world value today across our economy and for 
our Armed Forces.
    Drones are enhancing public safety, enabling faster 
emergency response, improving infrastructure inspections, 
supporting precision agriculture, and expanding package 
delivery networks.
    Across the country, high-rate production facilities are 
coming on-line, thousands of skilled manufacturing jobs are 
being created, and these innovations are expanding access to 
aviation careers.
    But all of that progress and the significant national 
benefit it represents is at risk today if we fail to address 
the growing security threats posed by the malicious use of 
drones.
    We've long rightly been focused on aviation safety, but we 
can no longer afford to ignore the security side of the 
equation.
    I actually entered this industry in direct response to a 
drone incident. As mentioned by Ranking Member McIver, in 
December 2018 London's Gatwick Airport, the second-busiest in 
the United Kingdom, was shut down for nearly 24 hours because 
of a drone--or possibly multiple drones--spotted near the 
airfield.
    The Government and the airport were paralyzed. Thousands of 
flights across Europe were canceled or delayed. In the end no 
one could say with certainty what happened, how to respond, or 
if the drones were actually ever even there.
    In the aftermath of that event, I formed and staffed the 
Blue Ribbon Task Force on UAS Mitigation at Airports on behalf 
of AUVSI and the Airports Council International--North America.
    Our mission was simple: Make sure a Gatwick-style shutdown 
never happens in the United States. The task force made dozens 
of policy recommendations to Congress to help achieve that 
goal. Unfortunately, most of those have still not been acted 
upon.
    In the years since, we've seen far more serious and 
frequent drone incursions--in military installations, like, as 
mentioned, at Langley Air Force Base, at commercial airports 
and ports and power plants, prisons and disaster response 
sites, stadiums, and even the White House complex. A Chinese 
DJI drone was even used in the attempted assassination of 
President Trump around this time last summer.
    We've seen mass confusion over drones--or what some 
mistakenly thought to be drones--in New Jersey last December, 
resulting in significant media excitement and very few answers.
    We've seen drone warfare evolve at a blistering pace 
overseas, from Ukraine and the stunning Spiderweb swarm attack 
last month, to the Middle East and Africa where small, low-cost 
drones are being used to overwhelm air defenses and carry out 
coordinated strikes with devastating efficiency.
    Despite all of this, U.S. policy hasn't changed, not 
meaningfully and not at the scale this threat demands.
    This is not a technology problem. AUVSI member companies, 
including the 3 at this witness table with me today, have built 
and deployed proven, effective solutions for detection, 
identification, and mitigation of rogue drones.
    This is a policy failure, and that failure is putting 
American lives, infrastructure, and national security at risk.
    There is a great deal of finger-pointing whenever 
unauthorized drones disrupt sensitive air space. But let me be 
clear: Congress should not be pointing any fingers unless 
holding up a mirror.
    The last expansion of counter-UAS authorities was in 2018, 
7 years ago, and the authorities granted are limited and 
clearly inadequate for addressing the evolving threat. This is 
an unacceptably long time line.
    Furthermore, the lack of progress is unjust to local, 
State, Tribal, and Federal authorities, including Capitol 
Police, as well as infrastructure owners and operators, who 
lack the tools and authorities to do much of anything in a 
drone disruption situation.
    We applaud the Trump administration's Executive Order 
issued last month restoring American air space sovereignty 
which begins to address these challenges. But executive action 
alone is not enough. Congress must act.
    We need legislation that expands detection authority 
broadly, especially to those responsible for protecting 
critical infrastructure and mass gatherings, and expands 
mitigation authority narrowly, with strong training, oversight, 
and accountability.
    We cannot let perfection be the enemy of progress. We need 
to start chipping away at the problem with urgency and resolve.
    Congress can either shape the future with considered 
proactive legislation or be forced to react to the next crisis 
with confusion and regret.
    Every time a drone is used to spy or disrupt or threaten, 
it erodes public trust and jeopardizes the life-saving, job-
creating, future-defining promise of drone technology.
    The time for action is long past. Congress must act to 
ensure our air space, to secure our air space, empower those on 
the front line, and ensure that innovation and security are 
moving forward together.
    Thank you, and I very much look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Robbins follows:]
                 Prepared Statement of Michael Robbins
                             July 15, 2025
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member McIver, and Members of the 
subcommittee: Thank you for the opportunity to testify before you 
today. My name is Michael Robbins, and I am the president and CEO of 
the Association for Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI), the 
world's largest nonprofit trade association dedicated to the 
advancement of uncrewed systems, autonomy, and robotics. AUVSI 
represents a broad spectrum of stakeholders who are committed to the 
secure, responsible, and innovative integration of drones and other 
autonomous technologies into our national air space system and 
associated infrastructure.
    The topic of this hearing could not be timelier. Across the globe, 
including on-going conflicts in Ukraine, Africa, and the Middle East, 
we are witnessing a transformation in modern warfare and at the center 
of this transformation are uncrewed systems, in particular, unmanned 
aircraft systems (UAS or drones). Drones transform battlefields because 
they both extend operational reach as well as reduce the risk to human 
life. As I have said on a number of occasions, including in recent 
Congressional testimony, robots don't bleed.\1\
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    \1\ AUVSI Testifies Before House Aviation Subcommittee on FAA 
Reauthorization Implementation with Emphasis on Drone & Advanced Air 
Mobility Regulations--AUVSI.
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    But this hearing is not just about foreign battlefields. What 
happens abroad is actively shaping the threat landscape here in the 
United States. Unfortunately, to date, what is happening abroad has not 
yet meaningfully changed our policy landscape to mitigate these 
threats. Inexpensive, consumer, and commercial drones that are easily 
accessible and widely available are being modified to carry out 
surveillance, cyber disruption, espionage, and kinetic attacks against 
critical infrastructure. State-sponsored and criminal actors are 
increasingly looking to these platforms for asymmetric advantages 
because they are accessible, inexpensive, adaptable, and often 
undetectable by legacy air defenses. Drone warfare abroad has shown us 
what's possible, and just as significantly, what's vulnerable.
    As the title of today's hearing suggests, the same systems 
transforming how we move goods, inspect infrastructure, and save lives 
through public safety operations are also reshaping the threat 
landscape. Drones are inherently dual-use. Their commercial potential 
is vast and offers tremendous promise, yet their accessibility and 
adaptability also make them attractive tools for malicious actors. It 
is imperative that Federal policy both leverages the benefits of these 
technologies and mitigates the emerging risks. Innovation and security 
must advance in lockstep.
    U.S. airports, maritime facilities, power plants, prisons, 
amusement parks, sports stadiums, and even Statehouses have 
increasingly seen incursions by unauthorized drones. While most are not 
overt attacks, they are proof points of how porous our defenses remain. 
Unfortunately, despite the many responsible drone users and operators 
around our country, especially those operating under Federal Aviation 
Administration (FAA) rules including Part 107 and Part 135, there are 
rogue actors looking to utilize these critical life-saving tools for 
nefarious purposes.
    Yet our domestic policy and regulatory framework has not kept pace 
with the threat. There is no singular Federal authority to counter 
uncrewed threats, no consistent framework for what technologies can be 
deployed or by whom, and no mandated reporting of drone incidents that 
could inform a national picture of risk. Congress has not updated our 
Nation's UAS detection and mitigation authorities since 2018.\2\ 
Meanwhile, the air space has evolved tremendously, the threat landscape 
has changed dramatically, and the number of drones operating in the 
United States has expanded exponentially.
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    \2\ https://www.auvsi.org/progress-on-domestic-uas-detection-
mitigation-is-required-for-public-trust-enabling-drone-regulations/.
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    The lack of Federal action and investment has left a dangerous gap 
in our ability to respond to reckless or nefarious drone activity. 
Today, only 4 Federal agencies, the Department of Defense (DoD), 
Department of Homeland Security (DHS), Department of Energy (DOE), and 
Department of Justice (DOJ), are authorized to detect and mitigate UAS 
threats, and their authorities are very limited. State and local law 
enforcement, airport and prison operators, and other critical 
infrastructure entities are left watching and waiting while 
unauthorized drones fly overhead.
    Today, only a limited number of top-tier events are able to get 
Federal support and equipment painting a clear picture of the air 
space. If something catastrophic happens--a drone collision with a 
passenger aircraft, an attack on a packed stadium, or an intrusion into 
a sensitive Government facility--finger-pointing will be inevitable. 
Congress, the White House, FAA, DHS, industry, and local authorities 
will all scramble to assign blame. But pointing fingers won't prevent a 
crisis, acting now will.
    AUVSI applauds the Trump administration's recent Executive Orders, 
Restoring American Airspace Sovereignty\3\ and Unleashing American 
Drone Dominance,\4\ that addressed some counter-UAS (c-UAS) related 
issues and showcased the importance this administration places on drone 
issues, but Congressional action is still necessary to expand c-UAS 
authorities.
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    \3\ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/06/
restoring-american-airspace-sovereignty/.
    \4\ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/06/
unleashing-american-drone-dominance/.
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    The threats we're examining today demand a serious and coordinated 
response, one that strengthens our ability to defend against malicious 
use of drones while also preserving the critical benefits these 
technologies bring. Every day, drones support law enforcement, 
firefighters, energy providers, and emergency response teams in 
protecting lives and infrastructure. As we enhance our national 
security posture, it's essential that we also sustain the innovation 
and trusted uses that serve our communities. Striking that balance is 
not only possible, but also essential to both our security and our 
continued progress.
 the dual-use nature of drones: a strategic asset and a tactical threat
    Events unfolding around the world are not just instructive, they 
are sounding an alarm we cannot afford to ignore.
    In Ukraine, the defense ministry's Operation Spiderweb \5\ clearly 
showcased how swarms of small drones can be used to saturate enemy air 
space, overwhelm air defense systems, and execute lethal strikes. These 
low-cost, high-impact platforms are changing the dynamics of warfare, 
not with brute force, but with agility, coordination, and volume. In 
the Middle East, Israel has leveraged drones to preemptively disrupt 
Iranian air defense networks, enhancing the safety and effectiveness of 
manned and unmanned aerial operations.
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    \5\ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Spiderweb.
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    These examples demonstrate a common truth: even small, 
commercially-available drones, when used in a strategic and coordinated 
manner, can pose serious threats to fixed infrastructure. Ports, 
bridges, shipping terminals, and maritime chokepoints are all 
vulnerable to surveillance, sabotage, or disruption by hostile UAS 
activity. These vulnerabilities do not only exist in active war zones. 
They exist today, here at home, across the transportation and maritime 
sectors that support our national economy and security.
    In short, the tactics we are witnessing in modern conflict zones 
are not constrained by geography. The barriers to entry are low, the 
technology is widely available, and the intent of our adversaries is 
clear. We must assume that the threat is already here, and we must act 
accordingly to protect the systems and infrastructure that keep this 
country not only moving, but safe.
   drones in transportation and maritime security: a critical force 
                               multiplier
    Those very same drone systems that can be misused are also being 
used daily to protect American lives, infrastructure, and supply 
chains. Across the United States, transportation and maritime 
authorities are leveraging drones as essential tools for homeland 
security operations, providing perimeter monitoring, real-time subject 
tracking, and as part of Drone as First Responder (DFR) public safety 
programs. These applications allow rapid situational awareness and 
response to developing threats or incidents.
    When used by trusted operators, with secure platforms, drones offer 
unmatched speed, agility, and visibility. They enable rapid situational 
awareness, improve officer safety, and shorten response times during 
high-risk incidents from port intrusions to natural disasters.
    In infrastructure management, drones enable safe and cost-effective 
inspections of bridges, railways, pipelines, ports, runways, and more, 
tasks that would otherwise require human workers to operate in high-
risk, unsafe environments. They provide real-time imaging and data that 
supports predictive maintenance and operational readiness. A 
particularly powerful example of the utility of drones came in the 
aftermath of the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore, 
Maryland. Drones were immediately deployed by local and Federal 
authorities to assist with damage assessment, guide search and rescue 
teams, and coordinate the emergency response. These operations 
illustrated the agility, speed, and value of drone systems in 
supporting critical transportation and maritime missions.
    This is the dual-use reality we face. While malicious actors may 
seek to weaponize this technology, the overwhelming majority of use 
cases, particularly in public safety and critical infrastructure, are 
enhancing our ability to respond to threats and protect American lives. 
As policy makers, it is vital to distinguish between threats and 
trusted uses, and to ensure that our response to one does not hinder 
our ability to leverage the other.
     national security risks from people's republic of china (prc)-
                          manufactured drones
    While drones are proving to be essential tools for homeland defense 
and emergency response, not all systems are created equal, and some 
represent an active and growing risk. Drones manufactured by companies 
with ties to the PRC continue to be widely used by public safety and 
other agencies, even in sensitive infrastructure environments. In some 
cases, Federal agencies are still using these platforms. This is 
largely due to the absence of consistent Federal procurement 
restrictions or guidance and minimal oversight of mandates already 
enacted into law as part of the American Security Drone Act and other 
legislation.
    The national security implications are stark and well-documented. 
Numerous assessments by DoD, DHS, and other Federal intelligence 
agencies have documented how PRC-made drones present unacceptable 
risks, including unauthorized data collection and transmission to the 
PRC.
    AUVSI has been the tip of the spear in urging the swift 
implementation of Section 1709 of the Fiscal Year 2025 National Defense 
Authorization Act (NDAA), which would add the communications equipment 
and services of PRC drone manufacturers DJI and Autel Robotics (and any 
of their subsidiaries, affiliates, partners, joint venture entities, or 
entities with a technology sharing or licensing agreement with a named 
entity) to the Federal Communications Commission's (FCC) Covered List. 
This will occur after a relevant national security agency makes a 
determination on their unacceptable risk to national security, or, on 
23 December 2025 as directed by Congress if action is not taken 
sooner.\6\
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    \6\ Whitepaper: AUVSI Partnership for Drone Competitiveness.
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    Despite these legitimate and documented concerns, many agencies 
continue to procure and operate PRC platforms due to a lack of 
consistent Federal policy, market incentives, and clear alternatives. 
Allowing adversary-linked systems to operate in the heart of our 
national infrastructure networks is a liability we cannot afford. To 
defend against emerging threats, we must ensure that the platforms used 
to secure our infrastructure are not themselves potential vectors for 
surveillance, sabotage, cyber intrusion, or supply chain warfare.
    This is not about cutting off access to drones, it is about 
ensuring that the platforms used to secure the homeland are not 
themselves Trojan horses. Allowing systems tied to adversarial 
governments to operate within our most critical infrastructure networks 
is a legitimate threat that we can address through common-sense action.
    We cannot effectively defend against surveillance or sabotage if we 
continue to operate systems that may be compromised from within. 
Building a trusted, resilient domestic drone ecosystem is not just a 
competitive advantage, it's a national security necessity here in the 
United States. Congress must act to accelerate the transition to 
trusted U.S. and allied systems, by setting clear procurement 
standards, supporting domestic manufacturing, and incentivizing the 
adoption of secure platforms.\7\
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    \7\ AUVSI_Rethinking Acquisition to Unleash American Leadership in 
Uncrewed Systems.
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    advancing security solutions and maritime-specific applications
    Several mature, scalable solutions are already available and in 
use. Technologies such as Remote Identification (Remote ID), drone 
detection and tracking systems, and defensive mitigation tools, both 
kinetic and non-kinetic, have advanced significantly in recent years 
alone. These tools allow security personnel to identify, assess, and, 
when authorized, neutralize malicious drone activity.
    While much of the public conversation has focused on protecting 
airports, stadiums, and Federal buildings, our maritime and 
transportation infrastructure remains significantly under protected.\8\ 
Shipyards, ports, offshore energy platforms, rail crossings, and inland 
waterways are just as vulnerable to surveillance, sabotage, and 
disruption; and in many cases, even more difficult to secure due to 
their geographic scale and open access.
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    \8\ AUVSI Testifies at Congressional Hearing on the State of 
America's Maritime Infrastructure.
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    Adaptation of these technologies for maritime domains, including 
ports, shipyards, and offshore energy infrastructure, is both necessary 
and feasible. These critical nodes in our logistics and energy networks 
deserve the same layered protections that are being discussed for 
airports, stadiums, and Government facilities.
    Importantly, these efforts must be guided by clear Federal 
frameworks that balance security with privacy, protect authorized drone 
operations, and enable public-private coordination. AUVSI urges 
Congress to support the deployment of scalable c-UAS solutions, 
particularly in cooperation with the U.S. Coast Guard (USCG), Customs 
and Border Protection (CBP), and the Department of Transportation 
(DOT). These agencies must be empowered and resourced to defend our 
maritime and other infrastructure effectively.
   the need for expanded c-uas authorities and thoughtful regulation
    Today, the Federal Government's ability to detect and mitigate 
rogue drones remains limited to a small number of agencies under narrow 
statutory authorities. This patchwork is unsustainable in the face of a 
growing and evolving threat.
    I had the privilege of co-chairing the FAA's Section 383 UAS 
Detection and Mitigation Systems Aviation Rulemaking Committee, which 
brought together industry, Government, and civil society to assess the 
legal and operational challenges of c-UAS deployments. One resounding 
conclusion: More entities need clearly-defined, narrowly-tailored 
authorities to engage in drone detection and mitigation activities, 
especially those protecting high-risk infrastructure.
    We urge Congress to act on the committee's recommendations, create 
a legal framework for authorized detection and mitigation operations, 
and ensure interagency coordination, privacy protections, and operator 
transparency.\9\
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    \9\ UAS Detection and Mitigation Systems Aviation Rulemaking 
Committee Final Report. January 9, 2024.
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    Congress should pass the bipartisan Disabling Enemy Flight Entry 
and Neutralizing Suspect Equipment (DEFENSE) Act which aims to protect 
outdoor sporting events from unauthorized drones and enhances security 
at major outdoor gatherings and sporting events by ensuring that State 
and local law enforcement have the authority and tools necessary to 
protect these events from aerial threats in real time, rather than 
waiting for Federal intervention. The bill would give State and local 
law enforcement the authority to mitigate threats posed by drones in 
places where a temporary flight restriction is in place. This includes 
large outdoor and sporting events. It would also require DOJ, FAA, FCC, 
and the National Telecommunications and Information Administration 
(NTIA) to create a list of approved technology that local and State law 
enforcement officers can use to address these threats.
    Additionally, it is imperative that Congress consider broad c-UAS 
legislation this Congress. Whether it is a refreshed version of the 
Counter-UAS Authority Security, Safety, and Reauthorization Act from 
the 118th Congress,\10\ which this committee worked diligently on, or a 
something akin to the Safeguarding the Homeland from the Threats Posed 
by Unmanned Aircraft Systems Act,\11\ our country and threat landscape 
needs 3 critical things--modernization, protection, and progress.
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    \10\ https://www.Congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/8610/
text/.
    \11\ https://www.Congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4333/
text/.
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                     conclusion and recommendations
    Drone technology is transforming the landscape of transportation 
and maritime security, creating both unprecedented capabilities and new 
avenues of risk. As we've seen on the global stage, drones can be tools 
of war, espionage, and disruption. But they are also indispensable 
assets in defending the homeland, securing our infrastructure, and 
responding to emergencies with speed and precision.
    As the threats are evolving rapidly, so must our policies, 
capabilities, and posture. The time for Federal leadership is now.
    To meet this call to action, AUVSI recommends that Congress take 
the following actions:
    1. Expand c-UAS authorities to additional Federal agencies and 
        delegate detection authorities to State, local, Tribal, and 
        territorial (SLTT) agencies operating at critical sites, with 
        appropriate and robust Federal training and oversight, and 
        delegate mitigation authorities in more limited instances, 
        again with significant Federal training and oversight.
    2. Enact legislation restricting PRC-manufactured drones from use 
        in critical infrastructure environments, inclusive of a 
        suitable transition period, and a funding stream that provides 
        support for operators to transition their fleets away from 
        unsecure PRC platforms to secure domestic or allied 
        alternatives.\12\
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    \12\ Whitepaper: AUVSI Partnership for Drone Competitiveness.
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    3. Support domestic drone production and adoption of secure, 
        trusted systems through advanced market commitments, grant 
        programs, tax incentives, loan guarantees, and other Federal 
        mechanisms.
    4. Invest in detection, Remote ID, and mitigation technologies, 
        including maritime applications.
    5. Promote interagency coordination through unified national 
        strategies and continued stakeholder engagement.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today, as well as 
the committee's leadership and focus on these urgent issues. AUVSI and 
its members stand ready to support this committee and the broader 
Congress in advancing smart, secure, and future-ready drone policies 
that defend our homeland while enabling innovation and trusted use.
    I look forward to your questions.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Robbins.
    Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their 
5 minutes of questioning. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes 
of questioning.
    A lot of the testimony I think hits the point that we can 
either be reactive when it happens or we can actually be 
proactive now and start to address this issue.
    Some 25 years ago, some manned aircraft systems were used 
to perpetrate the largest terrorist attack in American history.
    My fear is that in the not-too-distant future unmanned 
systems will perpetrate the largest terrorist attack in 
American history using drones, obviously.
    This is not something that's new to me. In 2017, I traveled 
to Israel when I was mayor of Miami-Dade County. We operate 
Miami International Airport. I went there with the explicit 
purpose of finding out from the Israelis what they did to 
protect their airports from drones, AI drones. I know we can 
protect ourselves from piloted drones, but AI drones.
    Their solution at the time was eagles. I just don't think 
we just have enough eagles to go around to do that.
    So we haven't done much since then. Drone technology has 
just gotten worse--I mean, gotten more and more advanced--and I 
think the threat is expanding.
    We talk a lot about authorities, and so let me put an 
assumption to you.
    If a drone, an AI drone, were to interfere or incur into an 
airport, say, the airport space, would that airport have the 
authority to deal with it in a kinetic fashion, in a way to 
knock it down in whatever way?
    If you can't do it through signal interruption, is there 
any way that that airport, does it have the authority to bring 
it down, even though they may know it poses an unbelievable 
risk to their passengers?
    Mr. Robbins. No, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. We do not have that authority?
    Mr. Robbins. No, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK.
    Does anybody have that authority?
    Mr. Robbins. In a very limited fashion, the Department of 
Defense, the Department of Justice, the Department of Homeland 
Security, and the Department of Energy have the authority to 
mitigate a rogue drone.
    It's not a standing authority. They can't just be doing 
that all of the time. The way Congress has restricted the 
authority at the moment, it has to go through a very specific 
approval process and requires a very high-level signature, 
usually at like the deputy secretary level or higher.
    Mr. Gimenez. Let me put an example to you. What happened in 
Ukraine, what the Ukrainians did to the Russians, it should be 
a wake-up call to us and a call to action, because had that 
happened here in the United States, let's say a coordinated 
attack on major airports, yes, there would be loss of life, 
there would be injury, there would be a lot of damage.
    But there's something else that we're not thinking about. 
It's the economic damage that it does. In Miami-Dade County 
alone, Miami International Airport is the single largest 
economic generator of that county, 40,000 people directly 
employed by that airport, 300,000 people indirectly employed by 
that airport.
    If you had that kind of attack in the United States and, 
say, across the world, you could ground air transportation to a 
halt--to a halt--and that would cause irreparable economic 
damage.
    So I'm committed and hopefully my colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle should be committed to confronting this head-
on. We need to do this now. Because, like you said, also I live 
in Miami and we have things called hurricanes. Hurricanes 
aren't a question of if. It's a question of when. I consider 
this threat by drones not to be a question of if. It's a 
question of when.
    The question is, then, are we going to be proactive against 
it and try to mitigate that or are we going to say, ``Oh my 
God,'' and then do all kinds of stuff after the fact.
    So what kind of legislation do we need in order to break 
through the barriers and actually give our State, local, and 
Federal agencies the power that they need, the authorities that 
they need in order to protect the American public?
    Who would be best to answer that?
    Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. Thank you, Chairman.
    I think I would challenge the presumption that the 
immediate need is to be able to develop a reactionary device or 
a reactionary element to the strategy. I think a more important 
component is that right now we don't have awareness of the air 
space.
    So we don't necessarily know whether the drone that's in--
recently, as you know, in Miami a drone was spotted at 4,000 
feet above the Miami airport.
    The question was: What was that drone? Who was flying that 
drone? What was their mission?
    So we can't automatically make the assumption that just 
because a drone is operating within 3 miles or 5 miles of an 
airport that it is necessarily hostile. So we need to start 
with understanding what is in the air space.
    Right now we have no integrated air space management 
solution that tells us who's operating, what platform they're 
operating, and what are their intents. Therefore, we also have 
no way to be able to authorize those flights and deauthorize 
those flights to be able to separate potentially hostile from 
nonhostile or friend from foe.
    So we have to start with: How do we identify what's in the 
air space? Is it a threat? Then from that point determine what 
we're going to authorize legislatively as the appropriate 
response to those threats. I think we have to start there 
first.
    Mr. Gimenez. I will disagree on one point. I think we have 
to do all of the above at the same time. We have to find out 
what's out there, but also if it becomes--if we know it's 
hostile, we need to take action against it.
    So my time is up, and I recognize the Ranking Member.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much.
    Thank you all for your testimonies today.
    Mr. Robbins, am I saying that right? Robbins?
    Mr. Robbins. Yes, ma'am.
    Mrs. McIver. OK. Robbins. I want to make sure I get it 
right.
    Mr. Robbins. Thank you, ma'am.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you for joining us today again.
    As you are well aware, expanding counter-drone authorities 
to additional government agencies and potentially State and 
local law enforcement is a complicated task. Agencies must 
ensure careful coordination to avoid unintended consequences 
that counter-drone systems can have on air space safety, 
especially in urban environments and near airports.
    In March, the Secret Service allegedly operated a counter-
drone system without appropriate coordination with interagency 
partners, including the FAA. The system reportedly operated 
outside of the approved frequencies, resulting in automated 
alerts to the pilots of several aircraft flying around DCA 
airport, which could have had an adverse impact to flight 
safety.
    With that being said, what can be learned from this 
incident?
    Mr. Robbins. Great question, ma'am. Thank you so much.
    First and foremost, I think it's important that there is a 
hot wash from that incident and that the lessons are understood 
and distributed to all currently Federally-authorized users to 
learn lessons from what occurred in that incident so it doesn't 
happen again elsewhere in the Nation.
    But I think one of the elements that we can also take is 
training and delegating authority to State, local, Tribal, 
territorial law enforcement is not entirely new to the Federal 
Government.
    There are programs that exist now that include explosive 
ordnance disposal and SWAT team training that are typically 
held at the Federal level and then delegated down to the State 
level through training programs, as well as with Federal grants 
as well.
    There's training facilities at Quantico, in Huntsville, 
Alabama, and other places around the country where State and 
local law enforcement go and they learn from our Nation's very 
best operators, and then they are deputized to go out and do 
these kind of more difficult missions.
    Not necessarily every public safety official, therefore, 
should be a counter-UAS operator, but some should be and go 
through very rigorous training.
    Then it is incumbent upon Congress, in my view, to then 
provide oversight of that program and how is it going. In the 
same way that you're providing oversight on the Secret Service 
incident, providing oversight on the future authorities that 
are delegated down.
    Thank you, ma'am.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much for that. That was my Part 2 
question about what can Congress do. But thank you so much for 
that, because I am always preaching about oversight, which is 
extremely important.
    Mr. Feddersen, I understand you have experience working 
within the Executive branch, including at the National Security 
Council. What can we as legislators do to help ensure 
appropriate interagency coordination within the Executive 
branch?
    Mr. Feddersen. I think the actual interagency coordination 
is on-going and moving well. Obviously, there was a missed 
connection with the last incident that you mentioned.
    However, I'd like it to be known that out of the 5-year 
pilot program for Federal law enforcement, now 7 years into the 
program, that was the first and only publicly-broadcast issue 
that they've had.
    I know there is a concern with, again, moving that to 
private security or moving it to State and local law 
enforcement, but out of 7 years, 1 incident, and it was 
deconflicted following the incident.
    They have interagency processes in place to go ahead and 
deal with an investigation, to follow up and correct those 
issues.
    So beyond that, I think it's just transparency between--I 
know some departments and agencies are a little slow to respond 
to Congressional requests for reports, but I think that is, 
again, just transparency, communication, and coordination.
    I know that the interagency is talking about this issue. I 
know the interagency wishes that we'd have the expansion 
authorities. DHS, DOJ, and the FAA have all commented on 
expansion authorities.
    I think, to wrap up that question, I think it's important 
to understand that there is no reason today why detection 
authorities and mitigation authorities cannot be expanded so 
long as the individuals are properly trained.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you. Thank you so much for that.
    I'm short on time for my next question about drones flying 
over New Jersey. For some reason, they seem to love New Jersey.
    But with that, I'll yield back, Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    I'll recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you guys for showing up today.
    Obviously, this is a very serious topic. I don't think that 
most Americans have the slightest idea how warfare is evolving, 
especially over in the Middle East and Europe right now when it 
comes to drones, and that greatly concerns me as somebody who 
sits on the Homeland Security Committee.
    A couple weeks ago up here in the District of Columbia we 
were down in the SCIF getting a secret briefing from several of 
the agencies on our drone capabilities pertaining to many of 
these major events that are coming up in the United States, 
like the World Cup, the Olympics, et cetera.
    One of the recommendations that I made was that we do 
everything in our power to make sure that these events take 
place in domes, with roofs over the top, for obvious reasons. I 
think that would cut down a lot and seriously mitigate attacks 
from drones and the effectiveness that they could have in 
either dropping chemicals, dropping explosives, et cetera.
    One of the gentlemen in there said he would put that in his 
report, but he said he couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't be 
stripped out of the report.
    I did some research and there are 10 NFL stadiums within 
the United States that have domes. I'll read those for you now. 
We got the State Farm Stadium in Arizona; Mercedes-Benz Stadium 
in Atlanta; AT&T Stadium, Dallas Cowboys; Ford Field, Detroit 
Lions; NRG Stadium, Houston, Texas; Lucas Oil Stadium, 
Indianapolis Colts; Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Raiders; SoFi 
Stadium, Los Angeles; U.S. Bank Stadium, Minnesota Vikings; 
Caesars Superdome in New Orleans.
    Have any of you guys made any recommendations to the 
interagency or any of the other groups that are responsible for 
hosting these events about making sure that they do everything 
in their power to hold these events in domes?
    Go ahead, Mr. Hutton.
    Mr. Hutton. Thank you, Congressman.
    I would be happy to follow up in a Classified session to 
talk about some of the things that my company and others have 
done to support Federal law enforcement agencies at high-
profile events. We have not made that specific recommendation, 
though it makes a lot of sense.
    Mr. Crane. Why not?
    Mr. Hutton. That's been outside of our remit. It makes a 
lot of sense. It's entirely possible that at the action officer 
tactical level that that recommendation has been made, but as a 
company we have not. It has not come across our path. However--
--
    Mr. Crane. Thank you for that.
    Let me ask you a follow-up, Mr. Hutton. I know you can't 
give me a specific here. But what percentage do you think that 
that would cut down the threat if we were to host the Olympics 
and these World Cup games in domes when it comes to drone 
warfare?
    Mr. Hutton. I think that would take a significant risk off 
the table.
    Mr. Crane. OK. Would you commit to pass that along and help 
me amplify that message to FIFA and everybody involved in 
homeland security and protecting Americans?
    Because I also looked up the average stadium size for the 
World Cup coming up, and it's between 64,000 to 105,000 
Americans.
    If we don't think for a second that terrorists and other 
State actors who would be willing to commit an attack on U.S. 
soil doesn't see that as a fat, juicy, vulnerable target, we're 
out of our minds.
    Would you commit to helping me amplify that, Mr. Hutton?
    Mr. Hutton. I'd be happy to.
    Mr. Crane. What about the rest of you guys?
    Mr. Robbins. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Feddersen. Yes.
    Mr. Crane. OK.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Kennedy.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank you and 
Ranking Member McIver for holding this important hearing today.
    Up in New York, we have had many conversations about the 
impact on drones, both positive for the communities across our 
State as well as the potential threats that are coming with the 
drones, in many ways incursions into air space. We know last 
year the worry, the concern, and the fright that it caused up 
in the Northeast, whether it be New York, New Jersey.
    I'd like to know, especially being along the Canadian 
border, my district, the 26 New York, Buffalo Niagara region, I 
have 4 bridges into Canada in my district. We are also aware 
that many of these foreign nationalists have used drones--when 
I say negative--to smuggle narcotics across the border. It is 
part of their network.
    How do we balance as a Government the positive influence of 
drones in our lives and the technology that society can benefit 
from to the real negatives that oversaturation of drones is 
bringing into our society?
    Mr. Walker. I appreciate that question, and I think it goes 
back to what we were discussing earlier. I appreciate the 
Congressman's question about potentially moving everybody 
indoors for safety and protecting against that capability.
    But one of the things that you pointed out is very--is 
probably the most critical point here, and that is we have both 
good and bad actors in the air. Right now we can't identify 
which is which.
    Whether they're flying over a bridge for appropriate 
purposes, not flying, flying across the border for appropriate 
purposes, not flying, we have to start there. We have to start 
by having an awareness and seeing our air space.
    The NFL, for example, has reported a 4,000-percent 
increase. I know you pointed out that there's 10 stadiums. 
Ironically enough, there's 22 others and they have mostly 
better teams, which I don't know if that has anything to do 
with being indoors or outdoors.
    So we have to be able to identify what's operating in that 
air space, be able to control and protect and restrict those 
operators from flying in those areas that we don't want, and 
then and only then should we be able to effectively initiate 
whether it's electronic or kinetic countermeasures.
    I think that's where we have to start, and I think that 
fixes the problem. It also establishes public trust.
    Back to the Ranking Member's question about what happened 
in New Jersey. The bigger issue there, I think we all know, it 
turns out what was there was, if were it drones, was 
authorized, but we didn't know that at the time and we probably 
should have known that at the time.
    So I want to just continue to reemphasize that we need to 
understand what's happening, we need an integrated air space 
management, we need to be able to be comfortable, you as 
regulators, policy makers, our Americans as the general public, 
and first responders and law enforcement.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Walker.
    Thank you all for being here and your testimony.
    But, Mr. Walker, thank you for taking that question head-
on.
    As a leader in the industry, what are your thoughts on it? 
How does the industry suggest that we regulate your own 
industry to make it safer and to prevent these bad actors from 
doing harm to our communities?
    Mr. Walker. Well, the industry is working I think 
aggressively to both grow the industry and create systems, 
technologies, and our own individual policies at the operator 
level that protect the general public.
    But we're operating in silos. We're fragmented and we're 
awaiting a set of standards that we can mutually agree upon 
that both grant policies for how we operate and then regulatory 
authorities for how we leverage the systems that we've created.
    I think it's important--and I think Mr. Robbins said it 
earlier, I think everybody up here that's witnessing now--the 
technologies exist. This is not a technology problem. We keep 
talking about it as though, how do we solve this problem?
    We solve this problem by getting a Congressional mandate, 
getting funding, and allow for innovative development programs 
to start testing these solutions. They've been around.
    So how do we do it? The industry is ready to come together. 
I know we are. I know everyone else in our industry is. We just 
need direction, we need authority, and we need funding.
    Mr. Feddersen. If I can add to that, sir.
    The issue is, like we said, is the technology is there and 
there is safe technology. The FAA has been testing and 
evaluating counter-UAS technology since 2019. Every one of our 
vendors, every one of the industry members have to go through 
several levels of test and evaluation at every agency, every 
department, and every component. It's a burden on the industry 
to have to do that because the Government can't share that 
information.
    But, regardless, there are safe technologies out there that 
can detect, track, identify, and monitor air space and give us 
air domain awareness, and it can be layered.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Carter.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you all for being here today.
    In today's world, technology is rapidly advancing, and with 
that progress comes new challenges for us in Congress, the 
Federal agencies, and first responders at home.
    Unmanned aircraft systems have become more prevalent in our 
daily lives. We must ensure that the safety and security of 
Americans are protected.
    This is particularly true for my district, which covers the 
greater New Orleans area, home to the Superdome. I thank Mr. 
Crane for highlighting that we're a great place to have events. 
Safe, secure. We recently hosted the Super Bowl without 
incident, I might add. We have Final Four, Sugar Bowls, 
countless conventions and festivals.
    As I look forward and continue to work on this committee on 
bipartisan legislation that empowers Federal agencies and local 
governments to counter the threats drones pose, and as my dear 
friend Mr. Kennedy just said, we know that there are great 
applications, we also know that there are nefarious 
applications. So we must continue to work to endeavor to 
amplify those positive ones and discourage the negative ones.
    Mr. Robbins, my district and the Gulf Coast will soon be in 
the most active period of hurricane season. How do unauthorized 
and unidentified drones interfere with disaster response 
activities, such as search-and-rescue missions, using 
helicopters and drones, and what are the potential consequences 
for survivor recovery and response safety given the new 
application?
    Mr. Robbins. Thank you for that question, Mr. Carter, and 
it's a serious problem. Ranking Member McIver mentioned it in 
her opening statement as well, as did Mr. Walker.
    The incident that occurred just a couple weeks ago down in 
Texas in a similar situation during search-and-rescue disaster 
response, an unauthorized rogue drone collided with a 
helicopter. We had a similar incident in California last year 
when a scooper airplane was doing water distribution on a 
forest fire also was struck by a drone.
    When that happens, it hurts public trust, it endangers 
lives, and it damages the reputation of responsible drone users 
across the country. We have to do better.
    When there is an incident response, like a hurricane or a 
wildfire or a flood, there is a temporary flight restriction 
put in place. There is technology available that should be able 
to restrict the flight from occurring if the operator is 
responsible and looking at technology that the FAA makes 
available to individuals who are operating these flights.
    I also think it's important to distinguish between 
responsible commercial operators and those that are flying 
commercial off-the-shelf drones that maybe they bought on 
Walmart or----
    Mr. Carter. Are these Walmart-type commercial drones that 
are purchased capable of being retrofit to do harm?
    Mr. Robbins. They absolutely are, sir. The No. 1 seller of 
those drones in this country is a Chinese company called DJI, 
which used to restrict their drones from flying in spaces like 
where there was a TFR in place or over an airport.
    Last December DJI removed the geofencing on their drones, 
giving the operators--these are not typically commercial 
operators. Sometimes they are, but oftentimes they're just 
random people who buy a drone and sometimes do stupid things 
with them. They've removed the geofencing, so now they can go 
into a zone, like the helicopter incident in Texas, that used 
to not be able until DJI changed their own rules.
    Mr. Carter. How can UAS intervention mitigate the dangers 
of drones, particularly with the Port of New Orleans or major 
sporting events, as I mentioned? We know these drones at large-
scale public events, free parties, Mardis Gras. I mean, I'm 
deathly afraid of what could happen. How do we detect and 
mitigate the dangers of that?
    Mr. Robbins. Yes. As mentioned, it is not a technology 
problem anymore. All 3 of these companies as well as many other 
AUVSI member companies have technologies that provide a very 
complex, intimate portrait of the air space to be able to 
distinguish between authorized drones and unauthorized rogue 
drones, and then as necessary be able to take action, whether 
it's a kinetic or nonkinetic action, against a drone to remove 
it from the unauthorized air space.
    Mr. Carter. Real quickly, because I have about 29 seconds. 
What can local and State government do to augment what we're 
doing at the Federal level and what you're doing? We have local 
players, our State police, our State sheriffs--local sheriffs--
--
    Mr. Robbins. Presently not much. You can maybe find the 
operator and ask him politely land the drone. But until 
Congress extends and expands detection and mitigation 
authorities and allows for delegation to State and local law 
enforcement, unfortunately, those individuals, those great 
public servants are left without many tools right now, and 
that's unfair to them and it's unsafe to Americans.
    Mr. Carter. My time is expired, but I'd love to dig deeper 
into this, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Another time.
    Thank you all.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. Garbarino.
    Mr. Garbarino. Thank you, Chairman. Perfect timing. Thanks 
for holding this great hearing today.
    As the Chair of the Subcommittee on Cybersecurity and 
Infrastructure Protection, I'm especially concerned about the 
potential for foreign-manufactured drones to be exploited by 
adversaries to carry out cyber and physical attacks against 
critical systems.
    Many U.S. law enforcement and municipal agencies continue 
to use DJI drones despite security warnings from the Department 
of Homeland Security and CISA.
    Mr. Walker and Mr. Feddersen, from your perspectives, what 
are the cyber risks posed by these platforms? Do you believe 
agencies understand the surveillance or data exfiltration 
vulnerabilities they may be exposing themselves to?
    Mr. Feddersen, if you want.
    Mr. Feddersen. Yes. So I appreciate the question, sir.
    The cyber effect obviously we've seen in different formats 
and different forms capable of carrying a virus and injecting 
it into the internet of things and different places. We've seen 
this happen. We know it's happened several times. Anything that 
can connect to WiFi, Bluetooth, or anything, that connect even 
on the LTE bands, can inject some type of virus or some type of 
cybersecurity vulnerability into the system.
    This is something that I know the interagency is aware of. 
They're trying to address it. But when it comes from all the 
different threat vectors out there, a cyber attack from a drone 
tends to fall low on the list.
    It's not that it shouldn't be up on the list or it 
shouldn't be considered, it's just a priority-based aspect of 
things. But we know the potential's there. We know it's been 
used in the past.
    Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. Thank you.
    It's a really good question, and it's a very important 
matter. Essentially any time that we have interconnected 
devices, internet of things, on a broad scale like this, you 
have cybersecurity concerns.
    One of the things that we proposed in our written statement 
was that we need to have a digital flight-authorization service 
that has cryptographic credentials for both the operators for 
the platform and for their intention, and that only when those 
3 elements are fused together in an appropriate manner will we 
authorize that flight.
    That is just one approach that we believe is appropriate to 
ensuring that we are strengthening our cybersecurity wall 
against potential vulnerabilities.
    Mr. Garbarino. Mr. Feddersen, in your answer you said that 
the interagencies are aware, you believe they're aware, and 
they're trying to address it. Wouldn't addressing it just be 
stop using the drones? Or, I mean, is there another way to 
address it?
    Mr. Feddersen. Honestly, the simplest way to do it is to 
use detection and mitigation capabilities that are out there 
today. I mean, the technologies and vendors that are out there 
can identify and stop a drone from moving into an area that may 
be sensitive or unprotected.
    Again, when you talked about critical infrastructure, 
though, I think it's important for us to remember that critical 
infrastructure is protected by private security, not law 
enforcement.
    So when we talk about data centers, we talk about the 
stadiums or anything else, or even power plants, even our 
nuclear plants are private security, not State and local law 
enforcement.
    So the authorities that we talk about must be expanded to 
them as well if we're going to actually take care of our 
critical infrastructure.
    Mr. Garbarino. I've had this discussion with the NFL and a 
whole bunch of other people, saying these authorities need to 
be expanded to local law enforcement when these issues arise.
    Mr. Walker, did you want to add something else? You looked 
like you were about to.
    Any others? Do you want to add anything? OK.
    Mr. Feddersen, as we've seen, our adversaries have utilized 
unmanned aircraft system capabilities at various activities and 
conflicts around the world.
    Based on your work in intelligence and cyber operations, 
how realistic is the threat of adversaries using unmanned 
aircraft systems or platforms to preconflict-shaping 
activities, such as mapping soft targets or collecting signal 
intelligence inside the United States?
    Mr. Feddersen. It's already being used, sir. I mean, you 
just take a look at the borders. You take a look at the 
cartels. You talk to the cells that we know are inside the 
country. We know the agencies are actively pursuing them and 
going after them. But the threat is here today.
    Mr. Garbarino. It's just not the border. But what else are 
they mapping out that we might not have--the public doesn't 
know about yet or it's not on the top of their radar?
    Mr. Feddersen. It's pattern of life. So they watch agents. 
They watch officials, Government officials going to and from 
their house. They figure out patterns of that. They can do 
surveillance and figure out patterns at airports, other 
critical infrastructure aspects of things.
    We know--and particularly prisons are being infiltrated 
every day with drones that are going back and forth. So, again, 
it's being able to figure out guard shifts, patterns, different 
things like that.
    Mr. Walker. Yes. I would like to add to that, Congressman.
    I mean, there's been 3,000 drone flights, unauthorized and 
unidentified drone flights over power plants and power 
installations in the last 24 months alone.
    We don't know who flew it, why they were there, what their 
intention was, and what data they collected. So sometimes it is 
difficult to answer your question on specifically what we're 
doing because we don't know who they are.
    Mr. Garbarino. I had another question, but I've run out of 
time. I yield back.
    Thank you, Chairman.
    Mr. Gimenez. I thank the gentleman from New York.
    I now recognize the gentlewoman from South Carolina, Mrs. 
Biggs.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The FAA has reported over 1 million registered unmanned 
aircraft systems, more commonly known as drones, as of April 
2025, with many more believed to be unregistered.
    Unauthorized drone incursions are increasing in frequency, 
particularly in proximity to sensitive sites, such as military 
installations, nuclear power plants, which were just mentioned, 
and airports.
    Between 2022 and 2024, North American Aerospace Defense 
Command and the Department of Defense documented more than 600 
unauthorized drone overflights of U.S. military facilities.
    Public reporting has also noted concerning incidents near 
critical infrastructure, such as the appearance of low-altitude 
drones over nuclear facilities and near commercial airport 
perimeters in multiple States.
    So I think all of you are perfectly capable of answering my 
question, so I'll just leave it open.
    But my first question is, what are some of the direct 
impacts of unauthorized drone overflights at military 
facilities, airports, and maritime ports?
    Specifically for airports and maritime ports, could you 
explain the potential cascading effects that such incidents 
could or may have regionally or even nationwide?
    Mr. Robbins. I'm happy to take that question, 
Congresswoman, and thank you very much.
    I think, first and foremost, obviously, there's with each 
incident the potential for there being some sort of a 
catastrophic event.
    Thankfully, as mentioned, we haven't seen that in the 
United States as yet, but we have seen it overseas, as the 
topic of this overall hearing, of how drone warfare abroad is 
changing the situation at home.
    But even without those catastrophic events, each time one 
of these incidents occurs it erodes public trust as well. It 
also damages the public perception around the positive utility 
of drones.
    At AUVSI we represent companies that focus on the defense 
against drones. But we also represent dozens of drone operators 
that are doing lifesaving critical missions every day, whether 
it's for public safety or package delivery or other really 
important things for our economy and public safety. All of that 
could go away if there's a very terrible drone incident that 
occurs in the United States.
    Again, as we've talked about today, this is no longer a 
technology problem. The technology is in place. These 3 
companies, as well as others, all have the ability to offer the 
protection to all the different sites that you listed.
    But Congress hasn't updated the rules since 2018. 
Obviously, the landscape and the threat environment have 
changed dramatically. It's incumbent upon you as lawmakers to 
give Federal officials more authorities and to be able to 
delegate those authorities with proper training and oversight 
to local and State police as well.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Feddersen. I think there's 2 things to add back on 
there. I think one of it is really kind-of a lexicon we've had 
for a while. We should get rid of careless and clueless. Just 
like a vehicle on the road and our highways, you either drive 
it legally or you drive it illegally. The enforcement aspect of 
that needs to be understood.
    I think also when we say counter-drone or counter-UAS, I 
think sometimes that's a misnomer. Again, these systems provide 
air domain awareness. They are a safety tool. More than 
everything else, they provide safety to the general public, to 
any of the events that we have.
    The security element is there in mitigation which is also 
necessary. It's making sure that you have the exact tools that 
you need to enforce what crimes are being committed and then 
take appropriate action through the judicial process.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you so much for your insight.
    Mr. Walker, I have a quick question for you.
    From an industry perspective, what are the most effective 
tools available today to detect and neutralize these threats 
before they cause harm? Are private operators and owners of 
critical infrastructure equipped to use them?
    Mr. Walker. That's a very good question.
    So first you have to understand that there are a variety of 
technologies out there, from RF detection, acoustic, we could 
go down the list of the various different ways to detect these 
devices. Everybody's technology is--everybody's system is an 
amalgamation of a very specific group of technologies.
    But, no, not everybody has the availability of that. I've 
spoken with multiple law enforcement agencies who don't even 
know these technologies exist, much less have access to them.
    So I think back to what everybody here has been saying. 
First off, do we need to give--and I really appreciate him 
pointing out that I think there's a fear about delegating 
counter-UAS authority down to certain agencies because 
everybody just assumes that that means we're going to be 
shooting down drones or taking down drones and that's not 
necessarily the case. It is the identification of whether or 
not these are hostile or not hostile.
    There's, again, we've said it enough, but I'm going to say 
it one more time, it's not a technology problem. They exist.
    Do the appropriate law enforcement agencies at all various 
different levels have access to these technologies? They don't. 
They don't have access to the training for them either.
    So there's a lot Congress can do to help make this 
situation a lot better and fast.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentlewoman yields back.
    We're going to go through a second round of questioning 
here, and I'll ask each of you to please answer this.
    Mr. Hutton, are you worried about a catastrophic drone 
attack happening in the United States?
    Mr. Hutton. It's a very short space between the 
inconvenience that we have seen to date--shutting down 
airports, raising alarm bells--and a catastrophe.
    Mr. Gimenez. Are you worried about a catastrophic drone 
attack on the United States?
    Mr. Hutton. It's very worrisome, yes. The answer is yes.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Feddersen.
    Mr. Feddersen. Absolutely.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Robbins.
    Mr. Robbins. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. Would you consider that--I mean, you're right, 
that we've seen the enemy and probably the enemy is right here, 
that we haven't given the authorities and we have a fragmented 
defense system against drones.
    There's 2 levels really. There's the reckless, the reckless 
drone operator that puts life in danger, not because they're 
nefarious, but because they're reckless. They're flying 
somewhere they shouldn't be flying. Then there's nefarious. 
There's different ways to deal with each one.
    Will you help this subcommittee identify the different 
agencies or different even committees of jurisdiction that we 
need to bring into focus so that we have a comprehensive policy 
in defense of our homeland? Would you commit to do that?
    Mr. Hutton.
    Mr. Hutton. Absolutely.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Feddersen.
    Mr. Feddersen. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Robbins.
    Mr. Feddersen. We recommend a tiger team so those 
jurisdictions can actually coordinate in a rapid manner.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Robbins.
    Mr. Robbins. Absolutely, yes, sir.
    Mr. Gimenez. Look, I put this hearing together, but I don't 
know every single committee that has jurisdiction on this. I'm 
sure the FAA, which is part of Transportation and 
Infrastructure, and maybe Judiciary has it. But somehow we've 
got a disjointed defense mechanism here, and we need to bring 
it together.
    This committee was formed in the aftermath of 9/11 to 
provide for the security of the homeland. We don't have all the 
jurisdiction to provide for that. Absent that, we need to make 
sure that we coordinate that with the other committees.
    So I'm afraid that--and I hope not--but I hope that we 
don't have to have an incident similar to 9/11 for us to come 
together as a Congress and say these are the things that we 
need to do to counter this threat, these are the things that we 
need to do to counter cybersecurity threats that we have that 
also can be quite devastating also.
    So I want to thank you for volunteering. The staff of this 
subcommittee will get with you all. Then we'll also have some 
other--we'll contact other folks.
    What it is that this subcommittee, this committee needs to 
do in order to coordinate this so that we do come up with a 
strategy and an adequate defense of the homeland? Because, as 
you can tell, I'm really scared about this, and I think it's 
just a matter of time.
    Since we've already--9/11, you can say, ``Gee, nobody 
thought about that.'' Well, we've thought about this now. If we 
fail in this, it's our failure. We can't just sit in a room and 
think about it. We are thinking about it and we need to do 
something about it.
    I yield the rest of my time back. I now yield to the 
Ranking Member.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    This gives me the opportunity to talk about drones flying 
over New Jersey.
    As many of you know, last year we had the situation where 
there were tons of drones flying over different parts of New 
Jersey, which honestly sent people in a frantic. You can 
understand why. Even to this day, there are still drones flying 
over New Jersey.
    My sister was driving down the Garden State Parkway the 
other day, and she literally freaked out because she said she 
saw like a drone flying so close to the parkway, and it was 
just very scary. Honestly, it kind-of gave people a feeling 
where it's like an aircraft out of space somewhere. You're 
like, ``What is happening?'' because people are not used to 
seeing drones just flying over them. So it continues to be a 
problem in New Jersey.
    We have been given information from the Government about 
how these drones were not dangerous, they were OK, nothing. 
But, honestly, I'm not even quite sure if they understood where 
the drones--where they belong to, who they belong to, and can 
say that they weren't dangerous. We just don't know.
    It doesn't seem confident that there is concrete, really 
good information coming from the Government about these drones 
flying, especially when you have so many and you can't really 
pinpoint where they are coming from.
    So we've spent the last hour-and-a-half talking with you 
all, all of you sharing your expertise of what we should be 
doing, where we should be focused at. Hopefully, we lead this 
committee to really put some meat to the bone on this matter.
    When we come out of it, I think one of the things that one 
of you said was about the oversight, having oversight. But I 
just think we need a more in-depth situation and process of how 
we are countering, especially these drones that we just cannot 
determine where they are coming from.
    So I would love to learn more or learn more from you, for 
you to discuss--and anyone--honestly, I would love to hear from 
each of you of what we've learned from these incidents in terms 
of the Government's domain awareness and the public's 
understanding, shall I say, with drone rules and regulations, 
because that's a problem too.
    Many people, if you see this thing flying over your 
backyard, people just don't even understand what is happening, 
what is the process, what is the procedure that these drones 
should just be flying? Who should they call? Like who should I 
call if I see this drone? First, they're getting on Facebook, 
first of all, like tagging me and everyone else that they can 
think of about what is happening.
    But what is your input on that?
    Mr. Feddersen. I appreciate the question.
    I'd like to start with the idea that these processes are 
already in place. Again, if anybody has issues in the 
community, they call their local law enforcement. If there's a 
security issue at a private site, security knows who to kind-of 
call and kind-of run into it.
    So, again, if State and local law enforcement or private 
security would have had the technology in place at that point 
and the authority to detect and the authority to mitigate, they 
can identify drones and are able to call the FAA and find out 
whether or not they're authorized or not authorized.
    There is equipment, including ours, where you can whitelist 
drones so you know whether a drone is actually authorized to 
fly in a certain area or not authorized to fly in a certain 
area. You can deconflict and focus your security efforts that 
way.
    But it has to be decentralized, it has to be pushed to the 
lowest level in order for the process to work.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much for that.
    Mr. Walker. Here is what you didn't know, and this is part 
of the problem. Right now we have no integrated system which 
ties the operator and their qualifications and their 
certifications to operate digitally to the platform that they 
are operating and to their intent where you can immediately 
identify who that is operating. That's the point that we've 
been trying to make for a long time, is, yes, it's great that 
we can go out and we see that drone.
    But to your point, you should have had no concern as a 
Member of Congress or as a member of the general public that 
that drone is operating appropriately and is authorized. There 
should not be that fear.
    If you go back to what happened earlier in New Jersey, the 
answer was nobody knew because there was no system that 
provided the regulators and the air space policy managers a way 
to determine whether those flights were appropriate or 
inappropriate. We have to start there.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much for that, Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Robinson.
    Mr. Robbins. Yes, I'd just add to that.
    I think it also speaks to that erosion of public trust 
around drones. The drones that are still flying in New Jersey 
are more than likely doing some sort of important mission--
infrastructure inspection, public safety, package delivery, 
things of that nature.
    Compare the erosion of public trust in New Jersey, though, 
to north Texas, where drone operations have been authorized in 
a trial program by the FAA to do significant operations in the 
north Texas area.
    People are--like communities are fighting over who gets 
drone delivery next, whose public safety agency is going to get 
the drone operations to help extend the operational reach of 
their local police.
    So the inverse of that is when drones are authorized and 
the community becomes familiar with them, they become a huge 
asset to the community and a boost to public safety.
    Mrs. McIver. Thank you so much for that.
    Mr. Robbins. I wanted to call you Mr. Robinson. Again, I'm 
sorry.
    Mr. Robbins. It's OK, ma'am.
    Mrs. McIver. I'm out of time. So forgive me, Mr. Hutton.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. The Ranking Member yields back.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Pfluger.
    Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for holding 
this. This is a continuation of multiple hearings that we've 
had, and I have been personally concerned about this for a 
number of reasons.
    But I'll start with just a statement about the fact that 
the weekend's and last week's tragedies that happened in Texas, 
which we were involved in, had several local and State law 
enforcement officials reach out and say, ``What are we going to 
do?'' Because the Chinese-made technology is allowing them to 
do things like search and rescue. But, obviously, we're 
concerned about that, and we have stated those concerns in this 
hearing and for at least 2, maybe 3 or 4 years.
    So not really a question so much as a statement of, like, 
how do we go faster? How do we get to a point where we can keep 
up with that technology?
    Then I'll go to Mr. Hutton on the conversation of Ukraine, 
which I've spent a lot of time studying.
    The iterative nature of the drones that we are seeing in 
that conflict is quite alarming. I'm not sure that we're 
keeping up. So it's kind-of in the same vein as what I've 
mentioned about some of our law enforcement needs.
    But what features of these drones raise concern of similar 
tactics, techniques, and procedures being used here against us, 
whether it be critical infrastructure, military bases, or the 
like?
    Mr. Hutton. You put your finger on it, Congressman. Not 
just the technology, but also the tactics, techniques, and 
procedures are iterating at an incredibly fast pace.
    As has been mentioned already, prior to your arrival, the 
Operation Spiderweb in Ukraine demonstrated the control of 
small UAS with kinetic payloads at 2,000 miles distance, 
indicating that you wouldn't even have to be in the United 
States or even on this side of the planet to be able to conduct 
or execute a terrorist attack against U.S. critical 
infrastructure. We're there.
    Mr. Pfluger. So with that statement, Mr. Feddersen, let's 
think about the truck, the 18-wheeler truck that the Ukrainians 
deployed against the Russian airplanes and fighter aircraft.
    Is that a possibility here? Do we have a possibility of 
shipping containers being in our ports that have already those 
types of drones that are ready to go preprogrammed?
    Mr. Feddersen. We do. It's a scenario that's been, 
obviously, discussed kind-of ad nauseam in the community as to 
how it can happen. It can be at the ports. It can be an 18-
wheeler. But it can also just be a flatbed pickup truck or any 
other truck that's driving around.
    Mr. Pfluger. What resources do we need that we do not have 
right now to both protect against some sort of critical 
infrastructure, military or even civilian-type attack? What do 
we need to think about legislatively? I will open that up. We 
can just go down the line. We have a minute and 40 seconds.
    Mr. Hutton. I'll move quickly.
    You need a common integrated air picture. Three companies 
before you all make competitive products in this space. There 
is a supply of this capability.
    Mr. Pfluger. Who would run that air picture?
    Mr. Hutton. Well, that would depend. Probably it would have 
to be delegated down to the operational users using a set of 
standards and certifications and valuations provided for by the 
Federal Government.
    Mr. Pfluger. Mr. Walker.
    Mr. Walker. I think the other thing that you need to think 
about, sir, is the fact that it's easier to hide in a crowd. 
Drones in our air space right now outnumber manned aircraft 4 
to 1. That's going to double by 2027. That's going to double 
again by 2030.
    So as we're talking about the ability to defend against 
these threats, we have to equally be thinking about, how do we 
quickly identify those threats?
    I know I sound like a broken record on that, but that's 
going to become much more concerning and much more of a 
challenge because we have to remember, of those drones in the 
air, 99 percent or better of them are performing real valuable 
missions that are saving and protecting American lives.
    Mr. Pfluger. Mr. Feddersen. We'll have 30 seconds. Split it 
with Mr. Robbins.
    Mr. Feddersen. Yes, real quick on the whole concept.
    It's integration. So we are collaborating to compete in the 
space. We just need the policies to open up so that individuals 
can figure out what they need--there is no one silver bullet--
so all the systems can talk to each other and be able to cover 
each other in layers.
    Mr. Pfluger. Last.
    Mr. Robbins. As mentioned, the Congressional rules have not 
been updated since 2018. Expand air space awareness detection 
technology very broadly and expand the mitigation tools more 
narrowly with vigorous training and oversight of that program.
    Mr. Pfluger. We have asked, Mr. Chairman, I have asked 
NORAD and NORTHCOM to come and testify. I think it's imperative 
that they do that. Because if we're going to delegate those, 
and we're going to integrate with the State and local level 
with the common air picture, which I agree with, then they're 
going to play a key role, and that positive identification is 
absolutely key.
    Thanks for holding this hearing. Yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentleman from Texas yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Carter, 
for a second round.
    Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I'm going to follow up on the comments that my friend Mr. 
Pfluger started.
    You state in your testimony that swarms of small drones are 
prevalent, like those that were used in Operation Spiderweb in 
Russia, and can be used to saturate enemy air space, overwhelm 
air defense systems, and execute lethal strikes.
    How easy would it be for foreign governments to conduct 
similar attacks as Operation Spiderweb did here on U.S. soil?
    Mr. Robbins. Well, I will say I have great confidence in 
our intelligence community and law enforcement that they're 
doing excellent work every day to keep us safe and prevent such 
an attack from happening in the United States.
    But from a technology perspective, as mentioned, the 
technology is there, it could be in this country already, and--
--
    Mr. Carter. How easy is it for that to be conducted? Is it 
something that is just farfetched?
    Mr. Robbins. No.
    Mr. Carter. Is it something, as our Chairman has just 
suggested, something we really--let me try to finish first--
that we should not find ourself flatfooted thinking, ``Oh, wow 
we know this has happened before''?
    Chairman Gimenez has said very clearly shame on us if we 
fall prey to another attack. My suspicion is, as it was done 
there causing some $7 billion worth of damage, we are one 
accident away from being a victim of it ourselves.
    Mr. Robbins. Absolutely. Completely agree with you, sir.
    Mr. Carter. I know it's been said over and over again. What 
can we be doing? ISIS has actively encouraged lone-wolf attacks 
targeting public--to target public civilian spaces. I know none 
of these are easy questions, and I know neither of you have 
easy answers for us. But because we are on a fact-finding 
mission to determine how we can better empower you and others 
to protect our homeland, what else we can be doing?
    Any of you can jump in.
    Mr. Hutton, would you?
    Mr. Hutton. Three of us here in front of you provide 
situational awareness and mitigation technologies. Those 
Government agencies who would be our customers at the State and 
local level--and often at the Federal level--cannot buy them, 
they cannot--they do not have a forum to deeply learn about 
them and understand what capabilities are there, and if they 
did buy them would not have the authority to employ them.
    Mr. Carter. Given that there's so many of them in the air, 
you indicated, I think, Mr. Feddersen, that many of them are in 
fact providing useful tools. Are we able to easily identify 
those that have nefarious actions versus those who aren't?
    The second part of the question is we know that--you 
mentioned DJI, which is a Chinese-owned-and-operated company 
that provides most of the commercial, I guess, recreational 
drones.
    Do we know if those drones are able to capture photograph 
images, video, that an independent person is using perhaps just 
for fun? Do we know if they have access with their technology 
to actually use that information unbeknownst to the operator?
    Mr. Feddersen. Every time they update the drone. Every time 
it touches the internet, they get a new update to it, new 
profile. All that information's in there.
    Going back to the question, sir, about how easy is it. It's 
coding and algorithms. People are doing it all the time with 
Raspberry Pis, creating their own 3-D printed drones, putting 
the control systems in there and figuring it out.
    We see it with drone-like displays on a regular basis. I 
mean, the technology to do those swarm attacks and things are 
being used commercially in here.
    I think one of the things that we were could all benefit 
from, especially after all the testing and evaluation that the 
U.S. Government has done on systems like ours, is to publish a 
list of those that have already been deemed safe to operate, 
safe to use, so that individuals, especially critical 
infrastructure, can look at a menu of options as what they want 
and we know that it's safe in the National Airspace System.
    Mr. Carter. Forty-six seconds. Anybody else want to weigh 
in on that?
    Mr. Hutton.
    Mr. Hutton. Federal agencies have to have a level of 
certainty about the safety and reliability and effectiveness of 
the systems. Without the authorities to employ the systems, 
they don't get to the point at which they can determine whether 
those systems are safe, effective, and reliable.
    Mr. Carter. So the drone that looks like it's dropping off 
a package and the drone that looks like it's dropping off a 
bomb looks exactly the same, and that makes your job that much 
more difficult.
    My time has expired.
    Mr. Feddersen. But that is why, again, law enforcement and 
trained security professionals who go through training for 
physical security and threat assessment are the individuals 
that should have these tools in their hands today.
    Mr. Carter. Well, I would encourage, Mr. Chairman, the 
joint committees that are working on joint legislation, that we 
step up our game, because every minute that goes by that we are 
paralyzed by analysis we are an accident waiting to happen.
    I want to be on record, along with the Chairman in this 
committee, in urging that the joint committees truly push 
forward. We cannot wait for the next accident and American 
lives are lost.
    I yield.
    Mr. Gimenez. I fully agree. The gentleman yields.
    I now recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    A couple months back, I pulled in, asked for a meeting with 
several of the agencies that were in charge of protecting the 
Capitol for Inauguration Day. I was very concerned about the 
President after 2 assassination attempts.
    I was also concerned about just a drone attack here, or 
another type of attack when you've got all the Members of 
Congress, all the Cabinet executives, et cetera. That's a huge, 
juicy target.
    One of the things I learned is that Capitol Police doesn't 
even have the authorization to mitigate and deal with drones.
    So we introduced a bill. It's H.R. 3334. I would love it if 
the Chairman would consider supporting this effort to give 
Capitol Police the ability to take down drones. I realize there 
is the Secret Service as well that has the capability and the 
authorization to do so.
    But if we're not even willing to give authorization to 
protect the Capitol, I think that's a pretty key indicator that 
we're not prepared to protect the rest of the country, which I 
think needs to happen.
    So I appreciate, Mr. Walker, you bringing up the integrated 
air space management needed. I know you've been beating that 
drum today, and I definitely appreciate it.
    Back to Operation Spiderweb that we've talked about a lot 
today where the Ukrainians flew drones over 2,000 miles--some 
of the reporting says 2,800 miles--to attack Russian bombers, 
very sophisticated operation.
    I'm glad, Mr. Hutton, you brought up the fact that some of 
our adversaries could launch an attack like that that mimics 
that attack from outside the United States. Is that correct?
    Mr. Hutton. Yes, it is.
    Mr. Crane. They could do that from a country like--or a 
city like Monterrey in Mexico or Ottawa or Calgary in Canada? 
Is that correct?
    Mr. Hutton. That's correct.
    Mr. Crane. Have you guys done any assessments on--I talked 
about the average stadium for the World Cup holding about 7,500 
civilians. Have you guys done any analysis on what a drone 
swarm could do to that many citizens just watching a soccer 
game?
    Mr. Hutton. We know from lessons learned in Eastern Europe 
exactly what would happen. You could put all of them at risk, 
every one of them.
    Mr. Crane. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
    Well, I appreciate you guys coming today. I want to--again, 
I know I've talked about this in my first round--but I want to 
publicly say that I think FIFA and Homeland Security should 
absolutely host all of these events coming up, for a short-term 
fix, in domes, because I think that that would greatly mitigate 
the threats that we're talking about today.
    Because when you host it in a dome, then you start 
filtering people watching the games through magnetometers. 
There is a whole new level of threats that you have to deal 
with. But at least mitigate much of the drone capabilities that 
some of these nation-states and bad actors have as far as 
targeting large populations of people. We know that terrorist 
groups love to do that.
    So I want to make sure it's stated publicly.
    Mr. Carter, I think he left, but I hope that my other 
colleagues on the panel will consider sponsoring my bill and 
working with industry leaders like yourself in making sure that 
we're proactive and not reactive. Because as you guys know, 
this place moves at a snail's pace, and it almost seems as if 
most of the time we have to wait for a catastrophe to happen 
before we actually move on anything.
    So thank you.
    Mr. Feddersen. Sir, I applaud the bill you and Mr. Perry 
put forward. We wholeheartedly agree the critical 
infrastructure here inside the NCR should be protected. We urge 
that we should protect the other 50 State capitals in 
legislation.
    Mr. Crane. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you.
    Mr. Gimenez. The gentleman from Arizona yields.
    I think we have really put a light on the issue and the 
fact that we in Congress need to focus in. We're kind-of spread 
out on our authorities. We need to kind-of focus this in.
    You have my word that this subcommittee and the staff of 
the subcommittee are going to work with you to identify those 
areas and those other jurisdictions and other committees of 
jurisdictions will need to work on in order to really protect 
America, which is really what our job is.
    As you also can see, this is a bipartisan effort. Both 
sides of the aisle see the threat, and both sides of the aisle 
are committed to try to resolve this problem before anything 
happens.
    So I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable 
testimony and the Members for their questions. Members of the 
subcommittee may have some additional questions for the 
witnesses and we would ask the witnesses to respond to these in 
writing.
    Pursuant to committee rule VII(E), the hearing record will 
be held open for 10 days.
    Without objection, this subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:41 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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