[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION
                     AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL
                        STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY 
                               MODERNIZATIOOF THE
                               
                                   OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-29

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
61-356                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                       
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
    Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                    TOM BARRETT, Michigan, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois, Ranking 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Member
                                     SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
                                         Florida

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom Barrett, Chairman..............................     1
The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, Ranking Member....................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Mr. Eddie Pool, Acting Assistant Secretary for Information 
  Technology and Chief Information Officer, Office of Information 
  and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............     5

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Jack Galvin, Acting Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary 
        and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Office of 
        Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans 
        Affairs

    Dr. Timothy Puetz, Ph.D., Deputy Chief Information Officer 
        for IT Budget & Finance and Chief Financial Officer, 
        Office of Information and Technology, U.S. Department of 
        Veterans Affairs

    Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy Chief Information Officer for 
        People Science and Chief People Officer, Office of 
        Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans 
        Affairs

Ms. Carol Harris, Director, Information Technology and 
  Cybersecurity Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office....     7

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Eddie Pool Prepared Statement................................    25
Ms. Carol Harris Prepared Statement..............................    27

 
                        VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION
                     AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL
                        STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES

                              ----------                              


                         MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

  Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Tom Barrett 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Barrett, Budzinski, and Cherfilus-
McCormick.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF TOM BARRETT, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Barrett. Good afternoon, the subcommittee will come to 
order.
    I want to thank by or start by thanking our witnesses for 
being here today and for the testimony that you are going to 
provide and the insight you are going to give to our committee. 
I appreciate that.
    I want to kind of set the stage for why we are here today 
and why the committee is interested in this topic. Nothing in 
the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) functions without 
technology.
    I think we all understand that and it is a huge part of 
what makes the VA work and in certain instances make the VA not 
work as well as it could. It is also the really predominant 
focus of course of the jurisdiction of this subcommittee as 
well.
    It is a simple statement, but it gets to the heart of what 
Office of Information and Technology (OIT)--why OIT's mission 
is so important. The VA needs reliable modern technology in 
order to provide the quality benefits and services that you our 
veterans deserve and have earned through their service.
    Since its creation in 2016, OIT has been constantly 
fighting a two-front battle. The first of which is to maintain 
and secure the existing technology systems that we have to 
shore those up from vulnerability and make sure that they 
function properly and in a way that we have expected. The 
second is to replace or modernize what is broken and outdated.
    It reminds me a little bit of our physical infrastructure 
throughout the country where we have roads and bridges that are 
being maintained over time, but also those that reach the point 
of needing replacement and having to do both at once is a 
difficult and challenging process. You have my respect for the 
difficulty and challenges that that presents.
    While it is easy to ask for more money, history has shown 
that funding alone does not necessarily result in the outcomes 
that we would like and many of OIT's persistent issues raises 
important questions in this way. Is OIT getting the best 
possible result for their technology investments?
    Is OIT prioritizing cost effectiveness and veteran outcomes 
in their decision-making? Does OIT operate a certain way 
because it is the best way or is it because it is the only way 
we have ever done it. Sometimes we get into a decision matrix 
where we have done things a certain way over time and that 
becomes the bit of a de facto experience.
    I have run into that here in Congress and, you know, we are 
elected to do a certain job and oftentimes are faced with well, 
we have always done it this way so that is the way we are going 
to continue to do it.
    I was pleased to see that President Trump's VA budget 
request for Fiscal Year 2026 laid out a brand of smarter, not 
bigger and a strategy for OIT that takes direct aim at many of 
OIT's problems.
    According to the strategy, OIT will take advantage of past 
investments in automation and digital services to streamline 
and become a more cost effective organization. They plan to 
change workflows and align similar functions across services to 
become more efficient.
    OIT will be making substantial investment in cybersecurity 
monitoring and infrastructure readiness to ensure that their 
hardware and software can meet the demands after VA's growing 
operations.
    I look forward to hearing about these plans and more from 
our VA's witnesses today. As technology changes and new 
problems, arise OIT needs to be flexible and adaptable in order 
to deliver the best outcome for our veterans. OIT's priorities 
should determine how the organization is structured, not the 
other way around.
    However, we cannot talk about smarter Information 
Technology (IT) strategy without talking about the money that 
VA has spent on IT projects that have not delivered as were 
expected.
    For years this committee has highlighted the wasteful 
spending, the over budget projects, poor outcomes that seem to 
come with all IT projects in VA, but really throughout 
government as I have seen. OIT needs to be involved in the 
conversation from the very beginning before VA buys new IT 
systems, starts projects or makes major investments.
    As I said before, nothing in VA functions without 
technology so there must be real ownership and emphasis from 
the VA's central office to involve the experts at OIT in 
technology decisions. Doing so might help avoid costly 
disasters down the road.
    Earlier this year we held an Oversight hearing on VA's 
software licensing management where we dug into the reasons why 
VA struggles to track whether the software licenses that are 
purchased are actually being used. The VA still does not know 
exactly how much money they are wasting on unused or 
duplicative software licenses.
    This committee has heard examples of software the VA 
purchased, tested and hen put on a shelf and never used after 
that. It is taxpayer money that is not being used to fix or 
modernize VA's IT systems because it was spent on IT that 
nobody will ever use.
    It is also not going to the benefit of a veteran or rapidly 
responding to an appeal or developing a claim in a more 
thoughtful or meaningful or efficient process.
    Major IT projects that support healthcare systems, 
education benefits and financial management are way over budget 
and have consistently fallen below expectations. This is just a 
few examples and there are many more that we could point to.
    People of Michigan's Seventh congressional District sent me 
to Congress to make VA smarter and work better for our Nation's 
veterans and I want to do my part to make sure that he follow 
on that commitment.
    As the chairman of this subcommittee, my job is to make 
sure that the billions of dollars that VA spends on IT is 
accounted for and produces real results. The strategy that OIT 
is taking seems to focus on being more careful with big 
projects, making sure they deliver results and spend money 
wisely and are involved in IT decisions from the start. I look 
forward to discussing this strategy and more with our witnesses 
here today.
    Last, I am looking forward to working with the President 
nominee for the VA Chief Information Officer (CIO) Mr. Ryan 
Cote after he is confirmed by my Senate colleagues. We urge 
them to move quickly and swiftly in that direction. OIT has an 
important mission in the work that OIT is doing today, as well 
as the work Mr. Cote will do has a direct and meaningful impact 
on veterans' lives.
    With that, I want to yield to Ranking Member Budzinski for 
her opening statement, and again, thank you all for being here.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman for 
holding today's hearing. I am glad VA's acting CIO is here to 
present to discuss the Office of Information and Technology's 
organizational structure and priorities. Everything VA does to 
provide veterans with world class healthcare and benefits they 
have earned happens on computers. Information technology is 
foundational to the Department. I will say that again. I really 
truly believe that that is foundational to the services we 
provide to our veterans.
    I am extremely concerned that this foundation is at risk. 
OIT's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request was already what many 
deemed a quote, unquote maintenance budget, mostly due to 
Republican's spending caps. This meant that many in the 
Department's modernization efforts had to be throttled and VA's 
already aging IT infrastructure continues to crumble.
    To make matters worse, the VA administration and Secretary 
Collins just informed Congress that they tried to illegally 
transfer $182 million from OIT to Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA) and Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) 
to compensate for even more community care expansion and 
mandatory overtime for claims examiners.
    As if that was not bad enough, the Fiscal Year 2026 budget 
request cuts OIT's budget by half a billion dollars. In each of 
our hearings over the past 6 months, I have repeatedly 
highlighted the importance of OIT and the critical employees in 
this office. The budget and the planned reorganization of OIT 
makes it clear that Secretary Collins and the Trump 
administration do not share those same feelings. I expect to 
hear from my colleagues that they think Congress has long since 
over budgeted and over resourced this office, without fixing 
any issues.
    I also expect to hear about how the Democrats are simply 
fine with quote, unquote the status quo. I could not disagree 
with that more. While there are many struggles in VA's 
technology modernization efforts, they are not going to be 
fixed by syphoning money and resources out of the office to 
fund VBA overtime pay or community care. This year's budget 
request indicates one thing and it is not a decrease of 
bureaucracy. For years we have seen a continuous dismantlement 
of capacity by expanding its portfolio of what it must take on 
without making equitable investments in resources and staff. 
More work with less resources is never a recipe for success.
    Further, I have strong issues with the written testimony VA 
submitted for this hearing. It is almost as if VA is bragging 
about the loss of trusted, hardworking and knowledgeable 
Federal employees, many of whom are veterans themselves to the 
voluntary retirement program or VERA. Of those who have 
participated in the Deferred Resignation Program (DRP) and VERA 
programs, VA notes 78 percent of the these were retirement 
eligible, which reads to me that VA lost a significant amount 
of institutional knowledge and technical expertise.
    That is extremely troublesome, especially as the remaining 
VA's are poised to take on more and more work to compensate for 
contract cuts, staffing cuts and accelerated deployments.
    The fatigue that is likely to cause creates major risk for 
system stability and cybersecurity. I am also concerned about 
the office's reliance on quote, unquote natural attrition to 
reach whatever staffing goals that they have set for themselves 
or have been set for them. With national attrition you can 
control the size of the team, but it is much harder to control 
the composition. VA has already lost critical technology 
expertise and if the Department does not get this under 
control, it is going to lose even more.
    Ultimately, I am concerned that if VA's IT foundation is 
allowed to continue crumbling, the Department will not be there 
for generations of veterans. We cannot allow this to happen.
    I look forward to hearing from both the VA and U.S. 
Government Accountability Office (GAO) witnesses today on this 
reorganization and the potential intended and unintended 
impacts. I will close by saying that I hope VA gets a Senate 
confirmed CIO soon.
    I hope that whoever the administration chooses, they are 
competent and qualified to lead one of largest information and 
technology programs in the country, if not the world. VA 
employees and veterans deserve nothing less.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
    I am now going to introduce our witnesses from VA's Office 
of Information Technology, Mr. Eddie Pool, acting assistant 
secretary for information technology and chief information 
officer. A very long title, sir. Thank you for being here.
    Accompanying Mr. Pool is Mr. Jack Galvin, the acting 
principal deputy assistant secretary and deputy chief 
information officer. Also lot to fit on a business card.
    Mr. Tim Puetz, deputy information officer for IT budget and 
finance and Chief Financial Officer.
    Ms. Devon Beard, acting deputy chief information officer 
for people science and chief people officer. I think we used to 
call that Human Resources (HR). Is that correct? Okay, thank 
you.
    Finally, we have Ms. Carol Harris, the director of 
information technology and cybersecurity at the and Government 
Accountability Office. I was telling my staff, Carol, that I 
think we are just going to have to get you an office in the 
Cannon building at this point since you are here as frequently 
as you are and we appreciate your willingness to come 
participate and give us your insight.
    Thank you all.
    I ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right-
hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you and let the reflect that all 
witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
    Mr. Pool, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver 
your opening statement on behalf of VA.

                    STATEMENT OF EDDIE POOL

    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Barrett, Ranking 
Member Budzinski, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on 
behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of 
Information and Technology. I am Eddie Pool performing the 
delegatable duties of the assistant secretary for OIT and VA's 
chief information officer.
    I am honored to appear before you to provide an update on 
the status of OI and T and the critical work we are doing to 
deliver secure, modern and veteran-centered IT solutions. I am 
accompanied by my OI and T colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz chief 
financial officer and deputy CIO for IT, budget and finance. 
Mr. Jack Galvin, deputy CIO for end user services and acting 
principal deputy assistant secretary for OI and T. Ms. Devon 
Beard, acting deputy CIO and chief people officer for the 
office of people science.
    Today I will focus on three strategic imperatives, budget 
optimization, workforce reshaping and cybersecurity dominance.
    First the budget, we are executing a bold, mission-first 
approach so every dollar delivers maximum value to our Nation's 
veterans. Over the past few months we have conducted an 
exhaustive review of our budgets, resulting in the immediate 
reinvestment of $89 million into infrastructure readiness 
programs with an additional 100 million poised for strategic 
reinvestment.
    We have intensified contract oversight and enforced 
accountability with acquisition partners without degrading 
service delivery. In many instances we have enhanced delivery 
of those services. We are consolidating VA's digital experience 
into a single modern platform with the goal of securely and 
seamlessly delivering the benefits and services to our Nation's 
veterans.
    This platform now supports over 16 million monthly unique 
users, along with over 3 million veterans who have downloaded 
the VA mobile app. Our overarching goal is to bring VA to the 
veteran through this platform.
    Additionally, we are launching an initiative to consolidate 
VA context and it is to deliver an improved experience for 
veterans, whether it be just by phone, chat, text or other 
methods.
    To further optimize, we are requesting changes to 
appropriation language to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts 
and authorize a 3-year availability for IT funds. This will 
empower VA to plan and execute with greater agility, a line of 
investments with outcomes, minimize procurement risk and 
operational delays.
    Second, the workforce. We are reshaping OI and T's 
workforce to achieve veteran-facing outcomes with speed and 
precision. Through participation in U.S. Office Personnel 
Management (OPM) and the VA deferred retirement programs and 
voluntary early retirement authorities, 78 percent of voluntary 
departures resulted in retirements.
    In our reshaping efforts we are simplifying our 
organizational structure and reallocating and aligning 
positions to critical IT functions. This reorganization 
reallocation of positions is designed to cut bureaucratic 
overhead, accelerate decision-making and focus every OI and T 
position on delivering secure, reliable and modern IT solutions 
to improve veterans' lives.
    Finally, cybersecurity. Cybersecurity threats are not 
static and neither is our posture. We are pivoting from 
compliance based checked boxes to dynamic threat informed 
defenses with proactive risk mitigation to stay ahead of 
evolving threats. This shift demands that Federal Information 
Security Modernization Act (FISMA) and Federal Information 
Systems Control Audit Manual (FISCAM) audits accurately reflect 
the complexity and operational reality of VA's massive digital 
infrastructure.
    We are implementing Zero Trust architecture (ZTA), 
enterprise wide, instilling a security-first mindset that 
includes rigorous identity verification, continuous monitoring 
and strict access controls. Our success requires continued 
reinvestment in modern cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel 
and rigorous standardized processes. The sensitive information 
we steward demands nothing less than unwavering vigilance and 
world class cyber defenses.
    In conclusion, the changes we are implementing are focused 
on a single mission, delivering unparalleled, life-changing 
outcomes to America's veterans. We are not simply modernizing 
IT systems, we are building a future-ready VA, where platforms 
are secure, teams are agile and every taxpayer dollar generates 
maximum impact for the veterans we serve.
    With that, I welcome your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Eddie Pool Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Pool. Your written statement 
will be entered into the hearing record.
    I assume the rest of your panel from VA is accounted for in 
your remarks as well. Thank you.
    I will now go to Ms. Harris, you are recognized for 5 
minutes to deliver your opening statement on behalf of GAO.

                   STATEMENT OF CAROL HARRIS

    Ms. Harris. Thank you, Chairman Barrett and Ranking Member 
Budzinski. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about VA as you 
examine the Department's planned efforts to reform within its 
Office of Information Technology. VA operates and maintains an 
IT infrastructure that is intended to provide the backbone 
necessary to meet the day-to-day operational needs of its 
medical centers, veteran-facing systems, benefits delivery 
system, memorial services and all other systems supporting the 
Department's mission. It is also responsible for protecting 
veteran data against cybersecurity threats.
    We have reported on VA's challenges with managing a myriad 
of major IT acquisitions and operations such as software 
licensing and cloud procurement over the years. VA's track 
record of delivering failed or troubled IT systems is in large 
part why we designated VA healthcare as a high risk area for 
the Federal Government in 2015. We also added VA acquisition 
management to our high-risk list in 2019 due challenges with 
managing its acquisition workforce and inadequate strategies 
and policies among other things. Both areas remain high risk 
today.
    As requested, I will highlight some key reform efforts of 
VA's IT Fiscal Year 2026 IT budget request and then our work on 
leading practices and selected questions for assessing agency 
reform.
    The VA has requested $7.3 billion to fund its IT systems in 
Fiscal Year 2026, an $300 million overall decrease from the 
prior year. It has also requested funding to support roughly 
7,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) employees, which is an overall 
decrease of about 11.7 percent from the 2025 enacted levels.
    Additionally, the budget request proposed amounts also 
reflects reduced spending on duplicative legacy systems and 
pauses a procurement of new systems until VA can conduct a full 
review of them resulting in about a $500 million reduction.
    Further, the VA's request states that a reduction of 931 
full-time equivalents is consistent with maturing technology 
delivery models and a shift toward automation and digital 
services.
    We have found that effective reform efforts require a 
combination of people, processes, technologies and other 
critical success factors to achieve results. Our prior work 
describes 12 leading practices that Federal agencies can use in 
agency reform efforts, including efforts to streamline and 
improve the efficiency and effectiveness of operations.
    These 12 practices fall into four broad categories such as 
the process for developing reforms and strategically managing 
the Federal workforce. Our prior work also identifies key 
questions that can be used to assess the development and 
implementation of agency reforms. For example, what data and 
evidence has the agency used to develop and justify its 
proposed reforms? How has the agency ensured their continued 
delivery of services during reform implementation.
    To what extent has the agency conducted strategic workforce 
planning to determine whether it will have the needed resources 
and capacity, including the skills and competencies in place 
for the proposed reforms. Consideration of these leading 
practice and relevant questions can benefit VA's development 
and implementation of its reform efforts.
    My hope is that VA will be able to satisfactorily answer 
these key questions for you today. If not, be able to pivot, to 
do the work necessary and adjust plans accordingly, to be able 
to give you satisfactory responses in the near future. Because 
if these leading practices and relevant questions are 
effectively implemented, such efforts can result in success in 
overcoming VA's long history of ineffectively managing IT 
resources.
    On a final note, we have 26 open recommendations that 
relate to the VA's IT operations and cybersecurity posture. 
They are foundational in nature so I strongly urge the 
Department to get those fully addressed quickly. Doing so will 
put them in a stronger position to succeed in many of their 
plans for form initiative.
    That concludes my statement and I look forward to 
addressing your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Carol Harris Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Barrett. Thank you for your testimony, Ms. Harris. The 
written statement you provided will be entered into the hearing 
record.
    From here we will proceed with questioning. I will 
recognize myself for 5 minutes. Thank you all for participating 
in today's hearing.
    Mr. Pool I wanted to begin with your statements and have 
some questions for you. The Fiscal Year 2026 budget document 
that OIT has laid out a smarter, not bigger IT strategy. Can 
you give me some examples of how OIT is not being as smart as 
they could be currently.
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the question. To your 
comments that you made in your opening remarks, I believe it 
was the stuff that is never used. That is stuff we are no 
longer doing. Our budget for 2026 and beyond will be spent on 
things that again drive maximum value to the veteran community. 
Things that do not have a use or do not provide value or 
maximum value, those will be repurposed and reinvested where 
again we are getting the biggest bang for our buck for the 
veterans of this country, as they deserve.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    From there, can you tell me how you are reorganizing your 
workforce to deliver services more efficiently, through the 
process improvement that you kind of touched on in your opening 
remarks.
    Mr. Pool. Sure, thank you, Mr. Chairman, again. OI and T's 
reorganization we are focusing again not just our investment 
capital, but our human capital as well, making sure that our 
organization is aligned to effectively deliver the most 
significant outcomes that we can for the Department. Where we 
have things that again are not driving significant value, we 
are looking, analyzing and realigning those functions to again 
bring that--bring those outcomes that we are after.
    Essentially, we are simply making sure that every decision 
that we make, every dollar we spend, every realignment, 
repurpose--everything that we do, again our north star is that 
we are driving absolute maximum value for the Department and in 
turn the greatest impact we can make on the veteran community.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Would you agree with me that 
essentially IT and this technological improvement is done to 
alleviate the need for more manual, human-driven processes that 
we can rely more on automated features or more technology-
driven process improvement, thereby requiring us to have fewer 
manual processes in there. As a result, fewer people involved 
in that chain of activity going on.
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, absolutely. It is 
about automating what we can automate. Working smarter, not 
harder, absolutely.
    Mr. Barrett. Yes, I do not think we--it is not the position 
of me or certainly of others I assume on this committee to 
completely automate anything to the point that we do not have 
human interaction in the process to bring about the best 
outcome necessary. I think since the dawn of technology we have 
used it to do things to alleviate the necessitation of manual, 
you know, processes in labor along the way.
    The discussion around reduction in some of the IT staff 
around 12 percent I think Ms. Harris pointed out a little bit 
more at 11. something, close to 12 percent. Can you give us 
some insight into what that would involve and who exactly would 
be impacted by that?
    Mr. Pool. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. Yes, 
in terms of the overall staffing numbers today, we are at 
approximately 8,205 FTEs. As part of our organizational 
reshaping, a lot of those billets are being looked at and 
analyzed. Like I said, the goal is not to reduce necessarily 
the numbers, but it is to make sure that we are optimizing how 
we allocate those resources.
    I will turn it over to Ms. Devon Beard who can speak a 
little bit more about the breakdown of the numbers for you. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Beard. Yes, we are currently about a decrease of 100 
employees from the start of January. We did participate in the 
OPM, VA and VERA program within the VA. Those were sprinkled 
across our organization but we were able to sustain those 
without any impact to our veterans due to succession planning, 
cross training, upscaling, reassignments. The tools that are in 
our toolkit to make sure that we every day have the resources 
that we need to meet our veterans.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Can you briefly I have only go 
about 15 seconds left can you condition firm that no position 
with actual IT application, like interfacing, coding, things of 
that sort are being eliminated throughout any of this process.
    Ms. Beard. Once again, we are going through the workforce 
reshaping activities. Those are all being focused on are they 
delivering the largest value. As long as they align with our 
guiding light, then absolutely we are retaining those so we can 
meet our mission.
    Mr. Barrett. Okay. I was told in some briefing ahead of 
this that it was mostly in support, not to wreck IT interfacing 
positions, but more in the supportive roles of that. Can you 
confirm that?
    Ms. Beard. Yes, I can confirm a lot of back office or 
administrative type support functions are absolutely being 
evaluated. As you mentioned in your opening do the processes 
that we have today need to remain in the way that they are? Are 
there redundancies that have built up over time that we need to 
reevaluate and make sure that we can accomplish what is still 
needed but do it in a most effective manner.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    Ranking Member Budzinski, for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman. I will actually try to 
pick up where you left off here. My question was going to be 
for Mr. Pool, but I will open it up to Ms. Beard as well if you 
have answers to this.
    Were you just saying that there were 100 people that have 
taken either the DRP or the VERA, they have accepted--you have 
accepted their resignations, 100 people within OIT? Is that 
what you had said.
    Mr. Pool. Let me hand it over to Ms. Beard, ranking member. 
It is actually not 100, it is actually somewhat north of that. 
Ms. Beard.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay.
    Ms. Beard. Our total participation in the program is 1,172 
as of today.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay, that took advantage of one of those 
too. Okay.
    Ms. Beard. Yes.
    Ms. Budzinski. Then when you were talking about it and I 
appreciate what were you saying that these are folks that were 
providing support. I guess my concern is that support does that 
support the overall mission of OIT so at what level or what 
point does that type of a level of vacancies then erode the 
overall mission of OIT----
    I guess I will direct this to you, Mr. Pool--if you could 
kind of further elaborate on when you were accepting these 
early retirements or resignations, how did you kind of consider 
that when they came to you? Does it in any way erode what you 
are trying to accomplish within OIT.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
    Yes, to answer your question this is largely an opportunity 
where we have looked at where duplicated functions exist but 
then IT and where these administrative functions are being 
performed elsewhere.
    I will use HR as an example where in OI and T we built our 
own HR function within the IT department. This is a shared 
service that we can get from the Department level HR area so 
that in itself is a pretty significant opportunity where we are 
able to basically reinvest back into the mission focused 
functions of IT. To be as, again, as mission facing, mission 
purposed as we possibly can.
    Ms. Budzinski. I guess would it be possible to provide to 
this subcommittee kind of a list of you know who participated 
in this reorganization and where these resignations or early 
retirements have come, just so we can kind of better 
understand.
    I appreciate the example you gave with HR but obviously if 
it is well north of 1,000 people, just concerned about where 
all those are coming from.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman. We can absolutely do that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay, thank you.
    Could I just ask, Ms. Harris, could you kind of elaborate a 
little bit on, you know, what you have been able to observe as 
far as OIT's workforce planning and how they looked at this? I 
know they have done a significant amount of restructuring.
    Ms. Harris. Yes so back in January 2025 we actually issued 
a report evaluating VA's cyber workforce in particular. I think 
those trends can probably be applied across OIT. What we found 
was OIT's strategic workforce plan was incomplete. They do not 
have an inventory of their current workforce skills and 
competencies so in terms of if, you know, with the 
restructuring not even having a baseline of what it is that 
they have, it is going to be difficult to tell, okay, from 
there what is it that you are going to project to and what you 
are going to need in the future.
    They also did not comprehensively identify their current 
and future human capital needs and skills and competencies. 
Those are essential things that you are going to need with any 
reform effort. Whatever your goals are and objectives are for a 
reform effort, you are going to need to make sure that the 
workforce matches that need.
    Being able to have those processes in place and have a 
complete picture of what you currently have and what you need 
to have in the future to match your reform effort, that is 
essential. Right now VA does not have that capability. We have 
open recommendations related to that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Could I just, Mr. Pool, ask you to 
kind of respond to that? I would be curious kind of how you 
might have looked through your processes in these different 
early retirements, what processes were in place?
    Talk a little bit more about that and kind of trying to 
meet it metric I think the GAO is pointing out being important 
to the overall--again, the mission of OIT.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you for the question again, 
Congresswoman.
    We looked at every single one of the individuals that took 
advantage of these opportunities and assessed that from a 
leadership perspective to ensure that this would not create any 
operational gaps or introduce unnecessary risk to the 
Department. Going through that process we made certain that in 
order to honor the request, the voluntary requests that were 
being submitted and again we had mitigation strategies in place 
to ensure continuity of operations.
    As I mentioned previously, it gave us the opportunity to 
actually bring efficiencies in some areas and optimize some of 
those processes and workflows to really again provide a better 
outcome for the Department. It was very, very rationalized and 
very, very closely analyzed as we went about that process.
    Ms. Budzinski. I think I am out of time, but I will yield 
back for now.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chair Barrett and thank 
you Ranking Member Budzinski for convening today's hearing.
    As a former healthcare executive and former ranking member 
of this subcommittee, I understand that information technology 
is vital in delivering world class healthcare in fulfilling our 
sacred promise to our veterans. I also know that significant 
organizational change can be disruptive, but often necessary.
    The way Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Mr. 
Vogt have approached these changes at OIT seemed intentionally 
cruel. I have heard you trying to right this ship and recognize 
the valuable contributions of the employees while implementing 
the change. Mr. Pool, what other steps are you taking to repair 
employee morale?
    Mr. Pool. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. It is 
a good opportunity to talk about the bigger picture at VA. 
Obviously change is very challenging. In this particular 
instance change is very necessary. It is an opportunity under 
this administration to really improve the things that VA on a 
scale have really not seen before.
    As we go about that, we are doing very frequent 
communications. We have a lot of activities underway. We have 
surveying and taking a pulse of the organization. Again, just 
to check in a make sure, you know, the workforce is getting the 
information that they need.
    Particularly through the DRP programs we made certain that 
we had lots of frequent communications, lots of options, lots 
of questions and answers with the workforce so that the 
employees could make the best decision for themselves and their 
families, given the opportunity that has presented.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. What are you doing to bolster 
retention efforts?
    Mr. Pool. To bolster retention efforts we are again making 
our mission focus back on the veteran. We are focusing 
exclusively on trying to optimize everything that we do to 
drive maximum value.
    I think that in itself has been a uniter with the staff and 
a good focus on the organization to really again focus on our 
core mission, what can we do to improve services to veterans 
across the board through technology.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Do you have any mechanisms in 
place that can actually truly track feedback to make sure that 
you are getting the desired effect?
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman, we absolutely actually do. In 
fact, I will yield to Ms. Beard who will talk a little bit more 
about those mechanisms.
    Ms. Beard. Yes, thank you for the questions. During a time 
of change it is so important to have strong communications with 
the staff that make sure that we are providing back the 
visibility and understanding and why we are doing what we are 
doing. Since January especially we have been doing a lot of 
town halls and other communications.
    We have an over 80 percent satisfaction rate with over 78 
percent attendance, so good saturation along with strong 
satisfaction. On the development side, we also have released a 
career developmental portal for all categories along the 
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) 
cybersecurity codes for employees that focuses on not only 
assessing their current skills and upscaling into the areas 
they want to do.
    Our focus around retention is not only to take care of them 
now, but also take care of what the VA's going to need and what 
they need to continue their growth here with OI and T.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. My next question has to 
do the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO), because there 
has been significant changes within the organization. How much 
involvement has the CISO had?
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. She has been involved 
as has her executive team. I believe that organization has four 
executives in the Department. What we have done is primarily 
focused on the operational aspects and then again with the CISO 
herself, that is going to be more focused on the policy side of 
things.
    Operationally, we are looking at those immediate concerns, 
but as we evolve and grow throughout this reshaping effort, 
this will be probably much more involvement on the policy side.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. How much control and execution 
control does she have?
    Mr. Pool. Congressman, I am not sure I understand the 
question.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, how much control, 
operational control over the execution does the CISO have, 
since that person is going to be held accountable. How much 
control will they have?
    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I would say quite a bit of 
control, I mean this is an environment where we welcome 
feedback from all areas of the organization. Where that is 
available to collect and inform our strategy we certainly 
maximize the opportunity to collect that so----
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Why is the CISO not here today?
    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I cannot really speak to that. I 
know that operationally most of the components for our 
reshaping are being aligned more toward the technical 
operations side of the organization like moving security 
functions where the next to the operations they support and. 
Most of that is under Mr. Jack Galvin to my left.
    I thought given the organizational direction we were going 
I thought given the organizational direction we go in it would 
probably be better to have Mr. Galvin here to speak to some of 
those issues.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. I only have a second left, I just 
want to say that I do have some deep concerns that we will be 
holding this person accountable and they are not here to 
actually talk about the level of control they and what they 
have been--how they have been participating.
    Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
    I recognize myself for 5 minutes again. Mr. Galvin, I want 
to make sure we get your parking validated for your 
participation today so I have got to ask you a question. OIT 
has gone through reorganizations in the past, can you tell me 
what is different about this current reorganization and what 
lessons learned we have had that we can apply to this process 
that we are in now.
    Mr. Galvin. Sure, thanks for that question, chair. You 
know, I think the big game changer for this one is the singular 
focus that the administration has put on standardization and 
priority on veteran outcomes. You know, when you had your 
hearing on the software asset management for instance, you 
know. We are having conversations now that it is on the how not 
the why.
    We are all in sync with what our priorities are. Saving 
duplication, enabling functions for software for instance that 
do not duplicate but solve the requirement at hand. I think 
that is the big game changer I think or change in this 
organizational change and, you know, in the past. Been through 
many of them, each one is built upon each other, you know.
    I would like to say that principles have staying powers, 
there are priorities that change, but principles of operation, 
especially in IT, have staying power. We still have the 
principle of cybersecurity, the protection of veteran data, 
the--you know, performance, service performance, ensuring we 
are accountable for system reliability and accountability. I 
think to speak to some of the other conversation is there is an 
excitement building now to deliver, you know, real outcomes, 
you know, Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM) 
acceleration.
    I mean, we are champing at the bit to show that, you know, 
in your area in Michigan we are ready to go. Our four sites in 
Michigan are already prepared in terms of their heavy lift IT 
infrastructure. We have a complete dashboard that shows every 
site in across the VA in terms of their readiness status.
    In fact, all 13 sites in the next year in Fiscal Year 2026 
are ready in those four key areas of devices, network 
infrastructure, wireless, all of that is done already. In fact, 
next year we will be working on Fiscal Year 2027, thanks to Dr. 
Puetz here in keeping a steady flow of the infrastructure 
readiness program and the funding that we have for technical 
debt.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, I appreciate that. I understood 
some of what you said so that was helpful.
    The--to me if feels like in the past some of what we were 
doing with technology was like layering on, stacking up instead 
of replacing the systems with one another, we were kind of 
adding to and layering up and up and up and next thing you know 
we have got so many systems, it is not as many unique users 
using each one of them, but nobody wants to give up the legacy 
model of whatever they had that they were used to using instead 
of kind of learning along the way and upgrading into what they 
were, you know, more familiar with.
    I remember when, what was it, one of the legacy windows 
versions finally stopped being supported and people were 
struggling to, you know, move up to whatever the next of newer 
generation of that was.
    Sometimes that is necessary and I feel like with technology 
we cannot move at the pace of the slowest participant. We have 
to move at the pace that is necessary to move the organization 
along. I think that having that in mind is important.
    I have heard the Secretary speak a number of times at some 
of his observations and how when he walked in the door on his 
first day he could not even know how many people were in the 
department and where they were all assigned because he had 
different payroll systems and different human resources 
management systems and all these other things that are not--
again, delivering care and benefits to veterans, they are 
simply the--running the system itself.
    They are kind of a drag, if you will, on the efficiency of 
the overall system if we have duplicative processes and more 
than on system in place doing the same thing or this, you know, 
part of the department over here is using this thing, but this 
department is using that. They do the same or they have the 
same purpose, but they are now duplicative in nature and then 
you have got to have IT resources designed to cover both of 
those, when instead you could have one that covers the total 
systems.
    I think that there is a lot there that can be done better. 
I think, I hope that we all recognize that, especially when it 
relates to IT.
    Dr. Puetz, can you tell us from your perspective how 
important is it from a resource allocation perspective to have 
an efficiently organized workforce, specifically around these 
IT projects so that people kind of know their mission and they 
have the sight focus that they need?
    Dr. Puetz. Thank you for the question, chairman. When we 
talk about resources, people and money, it is only as effective 
as we put against the actions that drive outcomes.
    It is very important to answer your question that we have 
that aligned. Like we talked about in the beginning, it is not 
about bigger budgets, it is about smarter budgets.
    That is where that alignment occurs. Do you have the 
traceability from the dollars that were requested through the 
activities that they were invested in to ultimately what is 
produced for the veteran at the end of the day.
    It is about setting controls, working with Inspector 
General (IG) to have controlled environment, to make sure that 
the plan is impacted as placed by the Department.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that. I am out of time 
on this round of questions. I will yield to Ranking Member 
Budzinski for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Budzinski. I would just like to say, you know, I hear 
you when you say this about smarter, not bigger. Part of today 
is not--anybody is talking about bigger, we are talking about 
bigger cuts, cuts that are actually happening and what that is 
going to mean for what the mission is for OIT, that is more 
of--that is my concern.
    I do want to go back to this question about staffing and 
the lower levels of staffing through the DRP, the VERA and then 
natural attrition.
    Mr. Pool, if I could ask you IT staffing looks now lower 
than what is budgeted for Fiscal Year 2026. Will OIT now need 
to rehire staff after essentially paying employees to leave?
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the question. Yes, 
we will likely need to continue to hire folks, just as we will 
in perpetuity. It is a cyclical thing you have got people 
coming in and going out and different life cycles of the 
employment process. Many of the folks that left were again 
retirement eligible.
    As I mentioned before, 78 percent of those resulted in 
retirements. We will continue to recruit. We will bring in new 
folks to the workforce. As we do that, we will be focusing 
exclusively on mission.
    Whereas we might have hired across the board previously we 
are going to be looking at prioritizing for the most again 
value added opportunities and how we are driving the mission 
forward for the Department as we----
    Ms. Budzinski. I cannot imagine you could hire new folks. I 
mean for those that have left can you imagine having to rehire 
any of them because the vacancy itself is too critical, they 
left, we have to bring them back. Can you see that happening?
    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman no, I would not see that happening. 
Again, as we went through this process, we put a lot of rigor 
behind how we approved folks that wanted to take advantage of 
these opportunities and making sure that we did not create any 
operational gaps.
    It would be highly unlikely that we would be hiring folks 
back. As a contingency, many of them are again available to the 
end of year, but I do not anticipate that being a contingency, 
we would have to exercise it.
    Ms. Budzinski. I should say, like, some of my concern is 
coming from the fact that over the last 8 years it seems like 
OIT staff--the OIT department has been saying we are way 
understaffed and now we have seen a major attrition of 
employees over just this last 6 months.
    I guess that is part of where my concern is, but the 
question I would also have is how are you then prioritizing? 
When you are talking about mission and we want everything to be 
mission driven of course, but within that mission you are going 
to have to make probably with less staff some really hard 
decisions on what is prioritized and what it not. Can you walk 
me through what that looks like.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, certainly. You know, it goes back to the 
opportunity here with standardization. You know, previously in 
the construct that you referred to, OI and T would be in 
position to support maybe five, six, seven, 10 or more similar 
type workflows capabilities or systems across the Department 
for one set of capability.
    As the departments standardize down to a real enterprise 
process on how we do business that allows OI and T to in the 
come in and really automate an enterprise solution around those 
functions. That in itself will be a tremendous efficiency 
driver for how we staff the organization.
    Then second, as I mentioned previously as well we have a 
number of administrative functions that we have grown into the 
organization. We have a lot of things that do not--are not pure 
IT focus mission that are consuming resources within the 
Department.
    We are no different than the rest of the organization. We 
are going to get back to our core mission which is delivering 
IT and where we can get services and functions from other 
places in the Department that are not IT related, we will be 
pursuing that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Can you give me an example of what that 
would be?
    Mr. Pool. Sure, I will go back to the exam of HR, you know, 
we in IT over the previous administration decided to build our 
own HR function within the Office of Information Technology. 
That consumes 300 plus resources to do that.
    At the Department level, we do have an HR department. We 
have several HR options within the organization. Again it does 
not make a lot of sense financially or otherwise to build that 
function in house when we can leverage the Department level 
resources for that.
    Ms. Budzinski. I appreciate what you are saying about 
standardization because this comes up a lot. When we have been 
talking about the EHRM, moving that forward standardization 
seems to be really important.
    I would just kind of point out my bigger concern here is 
without enough people power to help the VA actually in OIT 
standardized that could set yourself up for failure if you do 
not have the people to do the standardization because the VA is 
such a unique place and has a lot of challenges as it relates 
to standardization so maybe easier said than done.
    I will I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for 5 
minutes again.
    Mr. Pool, I wanted to circle back just for a moment on 
something the ranking member just asked you. You said there 
were 300--under the previous administration there were 300 
people in the HR part of the OIT, is that correct, doing HR 
functions?
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that was an estimate around 
300. I believe Ms. Beard has the exact number if you want or we 
can take that for the record but roughly 300 resources.
    Mr. Barrett. 300 out of 8,200, were doing HR functions that 
could have been or would have otherwise been done by the 
department as a whole and absorbed into the workflow of the 
Department into the I am sure robust HR portfolio of managing 
400 and some out thousand people within the Department. Would 
you say that is fairly accurate?
    Mr. Pool. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. I mean, again, that 
does put it in great perspective, you know. We have 8,200 folks 
roughly in OI and T, do we need a 300 person plus organization 
to do our own?
    We are driving the business to standardize on common 
technologies.
    Mr. Barrett. Right.
    Mr. Pool. We will do the same.
    Mr. Barrett. Ms. Beard, do you have anything further on 
that?
    Ms. Beard. Yes, I do have the number, it is 242. We do have 
some additional upcoming attritions through the programs that 
are impacting that, but to reinforce the focus about how we can 
once again make sure we still get the services we need for OI 
and T to meet our veterans needs, but also make sure that we 
have the capabilities to achieve that through with the HR 
functions.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. Is that roughly 300 or 242 or the number 
you gave me, is that included in the roughly 1,100 that you 
talked about in, like, deferred retirements, things, that sort?
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. It is spread across the board. 
Again, we did not exempt any positions as part of that from OI 
and T perspective for the DRP programs or VERA. That 1,100 
consists of multiple different domains in areas within the 
organization.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure, but hey also those 300 people are not 
minimizing or suggesting they do not have a legitimate, you 
know, work ethic or anything, but if that job can be done on an 
aggregated level, there is not a reduction and benefit for a 
veteran or delayed in a claim or anything of that sort that 
would result from that job being done by a higher level 
department asset.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is correct. Again, it 
is----
    Mr. Barrett. Those Chinese cyber attacks are affected by 
that? No, you know, no update to the mobile app that I use or 
veterans like me use throughout the management of our claim or 
interfacing with the VA so--okay.
    Mr. Pool. All right.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Mr. Pool, VA's budget documents 
describe a buy before build strategy. I think that is a good 
insight into some of the motivation for how we make this 
better, you know, we have to design it from the ground up or 
can we take something that is preexisting and kind of, you 
know, modify it for our use within the Department. Can you kind 
of give me some insight into how that works and what the 
motivation behind it was.
    Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you for the 
question, it is a really good one in terms of how we are 
approaching optimizing the organization. The buy versus build 
is really driven by the need to look at enterprise standard 
tools out there today that can deliver functionality for the 
Department. Previously we have invested in building and 
building and building.
    We have a very large portfolio of products that are custom, 
they are built and maintained and we are perpetually stuck and 
a lot of those given to the legacy portfolio. When you go out 
and buy capability from industry, you can generally get the 
enterprise platform that you can consolidate a standard 
workflow and process for the Department on and maintain and 
keep that system modernized. Again, it is a much better model.
    With that comes increased cybersecurity, a lot of other--
efficiencies in terms of just how we maintain those products.
    Mr. Barrett. Sure. I appreciate that. I had worked 
previously in our State treasurer's office a number of years 
ago and we were using legacy systems that were built from the 
ground up and we were having a hard time finding servers that 
would actually run them any longer. These things were 30 years 
old at the time.
    That was just one hardship that we were encountering, 
whereas if you have a processor or you have a product that is 
purchased off the market, it has the robust backbone necessary 
to kind of keep it functional and running just as one example 
and this necessitates less maintenance over time and people 
doing that to be sure.
    I am almost out of time so I am going to yield to the 
ranking member for 5 minutes for her questions.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Pool, can you tell me why are millions of dollars being 
transferred out of OIT to plus up other parts of the Department 
when there are nearly 20 unaddressed, unfunded priorities on 
the 1:N list?
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. You know, I cannot 
really speak much about what is driving transfers. I can speak 
about what we are investing in OI and T in. I will turn it over 
to Dr. Puetz, maybe he can provide some more insight for you on 
that.
    Dr. Puetz. There are two specific things that we need to 
address your question, the first is that there is OIT, but we 
are driving the larger department and for the needs for 
veterans across the entire Department. At the end of day we may 
have a 1:N list, but VA also has a 1:N list. Sometimes the 
other administrations and staff offices may have a priority 
over IT and that is a decision that sits with the Secretary.
    The second aspect of that is you asked about the 1:N list 
that exists within OIT. It is important to remember that when 
we submit that 1:N list it is part of our congressional 
justification, that is a point in time. Since that time when 
that is submitted, we almost immediately start funding into and 
against that list.
    That list that you have seen, we have been able to start to 
drive down our 1:N list. We look at lists monthly with our end 
of month close and where we able to identify savings, we are 
able to reinvest in real-time. We do not wait for the end of 
the year to come in and then pay our 1:N list, it is happening 
in real-time.
    Again, with budgets it is point in time. Good organizations 
are not just planning for the future, they are moving in real-
time to create it.
    Ms. Budzinski. A follow-up question to that because I did 
take time to look at the 1:N and, like, the top 5 issues one 
was cybersecurity and incident report, the second was data 
privacy and security, the third was governance risk and 
compliance, you go to fifth it is threat and vulnerability 
management. These are all at the very top of the 1:N list. 
Those sound very serious to me. What you are saying is that 
those have been resolved.
    Dr. Puetz. In the opening testimony from Mr. Pool you have 
seen that when we were here last year about that time he said 
that we are carrying some risk within our cybersecurity and 
Incident Response Plan (IRP) and that we will fund against that 
to really buy down that risk.
    Ms. Budzinski. That is exactly my question, though.
    Dr. Puetz. That is exactly----
    Ms. Budzinski. Excuse me, excuse me. That is my question, 
though, as you have transferred money away. My understanding 
though is that if those millions of dollars, you know, the 
Fiscal Year 2026 budget request, $434.2 million decrease from 
Fiscal Year 2025, that difference alone from what we understand 
would basically solved 70 percent of what is on that 1:N list.
    Dr. Puetz. Yes, ma'am, that is correct. I can also say that 
we have invested over 100 million in our IRP and I just signed 
off documentation to put a major investment within our ZTA just 
in the last few days. The funding is being redirected to these 
key priorities and we are spending down against that risk.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Mr. Pool, your testimony highlights a 
reinvestment of nearly $200 million from contract 
cancellations. Can you provide the committee a full list of 
contacts canceled within OIT and where this money is being 
reinvested?
    Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, we can take that 
back for the record and provide a list as requested.
    I would like to just add on the last question, just for 
clarity, our 1:N list are a capturing of requirements whether 
they be valid requirements or things that they would like to 
do. These are outside of our base budget normally.
    These are things that we know are unfunded largely, that we 
will be able to fund as funding becomes available, you know, 
for various reasons. This is how we prioritize those lists.
    The ones that you mentioned on top, those are largely ones 
that you can normally assume will be funded. It is when you get 
further down the list, just the racking and stacking to make 
sure that we capture those requirements and then we can invest 
in those as we are able to do throughout the fiscal year.
    Ms. Budzinski. Just to clarify, so you are saying that with 
the 434 million that is being cut from OIT's budget in Fiscal 
Year 2026, you are still going to be able to resolve all of 
that on the 1:N list?
    Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, like I mentioned previously with 
the standardization approach to how we are approaching things, 
again, the reference to where we may have 20, 30 different 
similar capabilities in the environment today, consolidating 
down to one enterprise platform, you know, again, the 
opportunity from a fiscal perspective is pretty substantial. 
Yes, I do believe with the funding that we have, we will be 
able to meet the majority of our needs.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I have a question about DOGE. Was DOGE 
or any of its representatives involved in the contracts that 
were canceled?
    Mr. Pool. We do not have DOGE employees at VA. I do 
understand that there is, being sensitive to ongoing 
litigation, that I am aware, is underway. We will have to refer 
you to our Office of General Counsel for our follow up on that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I am over time. Sorry about that.
    Mr. Barrett. That is okay. We are going to move to closing 
statements. I want to recognize you for your closing statement.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again to 
the witnesses for being here. I hope that both VA and OIT 
leadership have heard the concerns that I have raised today. I 
am not one for maintaining the status quo, nor throwing money 
at issues needlessly. I am not one for maintaining the status 
quo.
    Again, I do believe in mission-driven work. I appreciated 
those comments. Improvements to VA's organizational structure, 
processes, and strategies and operational workload can and 
should occur.
    However, as the ranking member of the Subcommittee on 
Jurisdiction of this jurisdiction, I believe that this change 
must happen methodically and must be driven by data. VA's IT 
foundation will not continue to support the Department's 
mission otherwise.
    Unfortunately, I have not had heard today anything that 
really reassures me here. VA's answers have not indicated that 
the reorganization staffing or budgetary decisions will reach 
using data or evidence-based strategic thinking.
    I am concerned that this was rushed to be finalized before 
a new permanent CIO could be confirmed. I would hope that the 
Department would delay implementing such drastic changes until 
a CIO can be appropriately named, vetted, and confirmed.
    Mr. Pool, I hope that we, and your team, can continue our 
dialog here and ensure that OIT can find the right balance in 
terms of structure and staffing. The work for your employees 
perform undergirds much of the work VA performs, and I want 
that talent to be recognized, appreciated, and cultivated. I 
hope you and whoever is confirmed as the next CIO share that 
same desire. Thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski, and thank 
you our panelists for being here today. I appreciate your 
insight and testimony to helping us drive, you know, good 
decision-making within this committee. Thank you.
    OIT, it stands hopefully without saying, but it has an 
important mission and many competing priorities. We even saw 
some of that on display here today. When everything becomes a 
priority, nothing then reaches the top of the list, right? We 
have to do a job of determining within those priorities what 
stands out as our most necessary attention.
    I am glad to see that under Secretary Collins leadership, 
OIT is reevaluating where they are investing, how they are 
utilizing their workforce, what they can do to be a more 
efficient organization. No organization, not even the Federal 
Government has unlimited resources.
    During this hearing, we have discussed several important 
steps that OIT is taking as part of its smarter, not bigger 
strategy to become a more effective and efficient organization.
    Starting fewer large development projects that come with 
the risk of ballooning budgets and poor outcomes, reevaluating 
the current organizational structure in order to make OIT a 
smarter and more resourceful organization, investing in IT 
infrastructure, cybersecurity monitoring, and reducing 
technical debt to make the VA more resilient.
    Some of things, Mr. Pool, that you pointed out about 
enterprise-wide, large-scale systems that can be delivered more 
efficiently with greater cybersecurity are important to see and 
review.
    I look forward to working with the OIT witnesses here today 
and once Mr. Cote is confirmed to accomplish these goals and 
more.
    As the chairman of this subcommittee, I will continue to 
ensure that OIT has the right priorities, the appropriate 
responsibilities, and is organized in a way that best supports 
the VA's mission.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members have five 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous material. Without objection, that's so ordered. This 
hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
     
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                    Prepared Statement of Eddie Pool

Introduction

    Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and distinguished 
Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Office of 
Information and Technology (OIT). I am Eddie Pool, performing the 
delegable duties of the Assistant Secretary for Information and 
Technology and Chief Information Officer (CIO). I am honored to appear 
before you today to provide an update on the status of OIT and the 
critical work we are doing to deliver secure, modern, and Veteran-
centered information technology (IT) solutions. I am accompanied by my 
OIT colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz, Chief Financial Officer and Deputy 
CIO for IT Budget and Finance; Mr. Jack Galvin, Deputy CIO for End User 
Services; and Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy CIO and Chief People 
Officer for the Office of People Science.
    Let me center my remarks on three core priorities: budget 
modernization, workforce reshaping, and cybersecurity posture.

Budget

    We are driving a bold and forward-thinking approach to budget 
modernization, one that matches the pace of today's technological 
landscape. Over the past few months, OIT has undertaken a comprehensive 
and rigorous review of our contracts and budget to ensure that every 
dollar spent delivers real value to Veterans and their families. During 
this process, we were able to reinvest $89 million into the 
infrastructure readiness program. Furthermore, we are positioned to 
reinvest an additional $100 million. The Improvement and Remediation 
Program (IRP) serves as the investment fund dedicated to ensuring all 
IT infrastructure such as endpoints, network, and datacenters is both 
``Fit for Purpose'' through modernization efforts, and ``Fit for Use'' 
via technology refresh initiatives. In recent years, the Office of 
Information and Technology (OIT) has effectively leveraged the IRP to 
address technical debt stemming from aging systems or solutions that no 
longer meet current requirements.
    Any contract terminations or modifications occurred after OIT 
assessed internal capabilities and confirmed that critical work could 
continue without disruption. This intentional, mission-first strategy 
has strengthened continuity, reduced complexity, and delivered smarter, 
more reliable IT capabilities. By intensifying our contract oversight 
and forging stronger coordination with our acquisition partners, we are 
decisively managing contract changes without compromising service 
delivery. This proactive approach not only boosts efficiency but also 
enables us to strategically redirect resources to mission-critical 
areas and emerging priorities, ensuring we remain agile and focused on 
delivering positive outcomes for Veterans.
    OIT is vigorously working to eliminate unnecessary expenses while 
maintaining operational readiness. These initiatives underscore our 
dedication to being responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars while 
effectively fulfilling our mission. Where necessary, we actively 
reassess the use of Government-furnished equipment, cut down on unused 
cellular lines, and enforce stricter eligibility criteria to guarantee 
that resources are allocated solely to essential personnel.
    We are also requesting changes to the appropriations language to 
allow VA to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts and authorize a 3-
year period of availability for IT funds. Granting a 3-year funding 
cycle will allow us to plan and execute across longer horizons, respond 
more effectively to real-time needs, and align investments with 
outcomes. These adjustments promote disciplined, results-driven 
investment while minimizing procurement risk and operational delays. 
Furthermore, we have implemented rigorous internal controls including 
quarterly reporting and CIO risk ratings to ensure accountability 
remains central.

Workforce

    OIT is committed to deploying staff resources in the most effective 
and efficient way to better serve our Veteran community. OIT is 
actively engaged in workforce reshaping to ensure we assign resources 
to critical positions to meet the Department's mission.
    We are decisively aligning every staff resource to achieve Veteran-
facing outcomes. Recently, we participated in the Office of Personnel 
Management and VA Deferred Resignation Program/Voluntary Early 
Retirement Authority. Among those who voluntarily participated, 78 
percent opted for retirement, with over 53 percent being Veterans who 
entered early retirement. This grants a unique ability to reallocate 
human capital to meet emerging mission needs, particularly in areas 
like cybersecurity and AI, thereby delivering better outcomes for 
Veterans. We are taking bold steps to reshape our workforce structure 
from nine service lines to three: Technical Operations, Product 
Delivery, and the Office of the Chief of Staff. This strategic 
realignment is designed to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy, 
accelerate decision-making, and sharpen our focus on delivering 
innovative, impactful IT services that directly support Veterans.
    To build a robust workforce, OIT is prioritizing and reallocating 
staff to bolster essential functions. We are aligning our onboarding 
efforts with mission delivery to ensure we possess the technical 
capacity required to meet the Department's future needs. Our approach 
effectively balances immediate operational demands with long-term 
workforce planning, ensuring both continuity and readiness in all our 
endeavors.

Cybersecurity

    Cybersecurity is a complex and constantly evolving threat. We are 
shifting our strategy toward dynamic, threat-informed defenses 
prioritizing proactive risk mitigation over reactive compliance. This 
is not just about meeting checkboxes anymore; it is about anticipating 
threats and acting before they happen. Federal Information Security 
Management Act/Federal Information System Controls Audit Manual audits 
must reflect the complexity of VA's digital infrastructure and the 
sophistication of adversaries we face. Our shift embraces dynamic, 
threat-informed defenses and promotes proactive mitigation over 
retrospective correction.
    OIT is promoting Zero Trust by fostering a security-first mindset 
across the Department and by prioritizing the protection of critical 
information and resources. Zero Trust is a security model and framework 
that operates on the principle that no user, device, or application 
should be trusted by default, regardless of whether they are inside or 
outside an organization's network. Instead, every access request must 
be continuously authenticated, authorized, and validated before 
granting access to resources.
    This approach involves rigorous identity verification, continuous 
monitoring, and strict access controls to ensure only authorized users 
interact with sensitive systems, such as those managing electronic 
health records that contain personally identifiable information and 
personal health information. This robust Zero Trust implementation 
delivers a seamless, secure experience for Veterans in an increasingly 
interconnected and threat-contested digital environment, while 
protecting patient safety, ensuring regulatory compliance, and 
maintaining the public's trust in VA.
    It is essential that the Department continues investing in modern 
cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel, and robust processes. VA's 
systems hold the personal information and health records of millions of 
Veterans, and we must protect these systems with the utmost seriousness 
and commitment they deserve.

Conclusion

    In conclusion, every change we are implementing, whether it is 
enhancing accountability, transforming the workforce, or advancing 
cybersecurity, is firmly rooted in a singular mission: to deliver 
unparalleled service to our Veterans. We are not merely modernizing 
systems; we are constructing a future-ready VA where platforms are 
secure, teams are empowered, and every dollar generates a significant 
impact.
    I am eager to address your questions and collaborate with you to 
develop an IT enterprise that truly honors those who have served. Thank 
you.

                   Prepared Statement of Carol Harris
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