    [House Hearing, 119 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                            VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION
                         AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL
                            STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES
    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY
                                   MODERNIZATIOOF THE

                                       OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                             MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 119-29

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                        Available via http://govinfo.gov

                                    __________

                       U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    61-356                     WASHINGTON : 2025

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

    AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
        American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
    JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
    NANCY MACE, South Carolina           CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
    MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
    GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina        Florida
    DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
    MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
    JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
    KEITH SELF, Texas                    TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
    JEN KIGGANS, Virginia                MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
    ABE HAMADEH, Arizona                 HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
    KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern       KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
        Mariana Islands
    TOM BARRETT, Michigan

                           Jon Clark, Staff Director
                      Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                        TOM BARRETT, Michigan, Chairman

    NANCY MACE, South Carolina           NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois, Ranking
    MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Member
                                         SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
                                             Florida

    Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
    hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
    published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
    official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
    both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
    of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
    unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
    current publication process and should diminish as the process is
    further refined.

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------

                             MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

                                                                       Page

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    The Honorable Tom Barrett, Chairman..............................     1
    The Honorable Nikki Budzinski, Ranking Member....................     3

                                   WITNESSES
                                    Panel I

    Mr. Eddie Pool, Acting Assistant Secretary for Information
      Technology and Chief Information Officer, Office of Information
      and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............     5

            Accompanied by:

        Mr. Jack Galvin, Acting Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary
            and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Office of
            Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans
            Affairs

        Dr. Timothy Puetz, Ph.D., Deputy Chief Information Officer
            for IT Budget & Finance and Chief Financial Officer,
            Office of Information and Technology, U.S. Department of
            Veterans Affairs

        Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy Chief Information Officer for
            People Science and Chief People Officer, Office of
            Information and Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans
            Affairs

    Ms. Carol Harris, Director, Information Technology and
      Cybersecurity Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office....     7

                                    APPENDIX
                        Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

    Mr. Eddie Pool Prepared Statement................................    25
    Ms. Carol Harris Prepared Statement..............................    27

                            VA OFFICE OF INFORMATION
                         AND TECHNOLOGY ORGANIZATIONAL
                            STRUCTURE AND PRIORITIES

                                  ----------

                             MONDAY, JULY 14, 2025

      Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                        Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                 U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 p.m., in
    room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Tom Barrett
    (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
        Present: Representatives Barrett, Budzinski, and Cherfilus-
    McCormick.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF TOM BARRETT, CHAIRMAN

        Mr. Barrett. Good afternoon, the subcommittee will come to
    order.
        I want to thank by or start by thanking our witnesses for
    being here today and for the testimony that you are going to
    provide and the insight you are going to give to our committee.
    I appreciate that.
        I want to kind of set the stage for why we are here today
    and why the committee is interested in this topic. Nothing in
    the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) functions without
    technology.
        I think we all understand that and it is a huge part of
    what makes the VA work and in certain instances make the VA not
    work as well as it could. It is also the really predominant
    focus of course of the jurisdiction of this subcommittee as
    well.
        It is a simple statement, but it gets to the heart of what
    Office of Information and Technology (OIT)--why OIT's mission
    is so important. The VA needs reliable modern technology in
    order to provide the quality benefits and services that you our
    veterans deserve and have earned through their service.
        Since its creation in 2016, OIT has been constantly
    fighting a two-front battle. The first of which is to maintain
    and secure the existing technology systems that we have to
    shore those up from vulnerability and make sure that they
    function properly and in a way that we have expected. The
    second is to replace or modernize what is broken and outdated.
        It reminds me a little bit of our physical infrastructure
    throughout the country where we have roads and bridges that are
    being maintained over time, but also those that reach the point
    of needing replacement and having to do both at once is a
    difficult and challenging process. You have my respect for the
    difficulty and challenges that that presents.
        While it is easy to ask for more money, history has shown
    that funding alone does not necessarily result in the outcomes
    that we would like and many of OIT's persistent issues raises
    important questions in this way. Is OIT getting the best
    possible result for their technology investments?
        Is OIT prioritizing cost effectiveness and veteran outcomes
    in their decision-making? Does OIT operate a certain way
    because it is the best way or is it because it is the only way
    we have ever done it. Sometimes we get into a decision matrix
    where we have done things a certain way over time and that
    becomes the bit of a de facto experience.
        I have run into that here in Congress and, you know, we are
    elected to do a certain job and oftentimes are faced with well,
    we have always done it this way so that is the way we are going
    to continue to do it.
        I was pleased to see that President Trump's VA budget
    request for Fiscal Year 2026 laid out a brand of smarter, not
    bigger and a strategy for OIT that takes direct aim at many of
    OIT's problems.
        According to the strategy, OIT will take advantage of past
    investments in automation and digital services to streamline
    and become a more cost effective organization. They plan to
    change workflows and align similar functions across services to
    become more efficient.
        OIT will be making substantial investment in cybersecurity
    monitoring and infrastructure readiness to ensure that their
    hardware and software can meet the demands after VA's growing
    operations.
        I look forward to hearing about these plans and more from
    our VA's witnesses today. As technology changes and new
    problems, arise OIT needs to be flexible and adaptable in order
    to deliver the best outcome for our veterans. OIT's priorities
    should determine how the organization is structured, not the
    other way around.
        However, we cannot talk about smarter Information
    Technology (IT) strategy without talking about the money that
    VA has spent on IT projects that have not delivered as were
    expected.
        For years this committee has highlighted the wasteful
    spending, the over budget projects, poor outcomes that seem to
    come with all IT projects in VA, but really throughout
    government as I have seen. OIT needs to be involved in the
    conversation from the very beginning before VA buys new IT
    systems, starts projects or makes major investments.
        As I said before, nothing in VA functions without
    technology so there must be real ownership and emphasis from
    the VA's central office to involve the experts at OIT in
    technology decisions. Doing so might help avoid costly
    disasters down the road.
        Earlier this year we held an Oversight hearing on VA's
    software licensing management where we dug into the reasons why
    VA struggles to track whether the software licenses that are
    purchased are actually being used. The VA still does not know
    exactly how much money they are wasting on unused or
    duplicative software licenses.
        This committee has heard examples of software the VA
    purchased, tested and hen put on a shelf and never used after
    that. It is taxpayer money that is not being used to fix or
    modernize VA's IT systems because it was spent on IT that
    nobody will ever use.
        It is also not going to the benefit of a veteran or rapidly
    responding to an appeal or developing a claim in a more
    thoughtful or meaningful or efficient process.
        Major IT projects that support healthcare systems,
    education benefits and financial management are way over budget
    and have consistently fallen below expectations. This is just a
    few examples and there are many more that we could point to.
        People of Michigan's Seventh congressional District sent me
    to Congress to make VA smarter and work better for our Nation's
    veterans and I want to do my part to make sure that he follow
    on that commitment.
        As the chairman of this subcommittee, my job is to make
    sure that the billions of dollars that VA spends on IT is
    accounted for and produces real results. The strategy that OIT
    is taking seems to focus on being more careful with big
    projects, making sure they deliver results and spend money
    wisely and are involved in IT decisions from the start. I look
    forward to discussing this strategy and more with our witnesses
    here today.
        Last, I am looking forward to working with the President
    nominee for the VA Chief Information Officer (CIO) Mr. Ryan
    Cote after he is confirmed by my Senate colleagues. We urge
    them to move quickly and swiftly in that direction. OIT has an
    important mission in the work that OIT is doing today, as well
    as the work Mr. Cote will do has a direct and meaningful impact
    on veterans' lives.
        With that, I want to yield to Ranking Member Budzinski for
    her opening statement, and again, thank you all for being here.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF NIKKI BUDZINSKI, RANKING MEMBER

        Ms. Budzinski. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman for
    holding today's hearing. I am glad VA's acting CIO is here to
    present to discuss the Office of Information and Technology's
    organizational structure and priorities. Everything VA does to
    provide veterans with world class healthcare and benefits they
    have earned happens on computers. Information technology is
    foundational to the Department. I will say that again. I really
    truly believe that that is foundational to the services we
    provide to our veterans.
        I am extremely concerned that this foundation is at risk.
    OIT's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request was already what many
    deemed a quote, unquote maintenance budget, mostly due to
    Republican's spending caps. This meant that many in the
    Department's modernization efforts had to be throttled and VA's
    already aging IT infrastructure continues to crumble.
        To make matters worse, the VA administration and Secretary
    Collins just informed Congress that they tried to illegally
    transfer $182 million from OIT to Veterans Health
    Administration (VHA) and Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA)
    to compensate for even more community care expansion and
    mandatory overtime for claims examiners.
        As if that was not bad enough, the Fiscal Year 2026 budget
    request cuts OIT's budget by half a billion dollars. In each of
    our hearings over the past 6 months, I have repeatedly
    highlighted the importance of OIT and the critical employees in
    this office. The budget and the planned reorganization of OIT
    makes it clear that Secretary Collins and the Trump
    administration do not share those same feelings. I expect to
    hear from my colleagues that they think Congress has long since
    over budgeted and over resourced this office, without fixing
    any issues.
        I also expect to hear about how the Democrats are simply
    fine with quote, unquote the status quo. I could not disagree
    with that more. While there are many struggles in VA's
    technology modernization efforts, they are not going to be
    fixed by syphoning money and resources out of the office to
    fund VBA overtime pay or community care. This year's budget
    request indicates one thing and it is not a decrease of
    bureaucracy. For years we have seen a continuous dismantlement
    of capacity by expanding its portfolio of what it must take on
    without making equitable investments in resources and staff.
    More work with less resources is never a recipe for success.
        Further, I have strong issues with the written testimony VA
    submitted for this hearing. It is almost as if VA is bragging
    about the loss of trusted, hardworking and knowledgeable
    Federal employees, many of whom are veterans themselves to the
    voluntary retirement program or VERA. Of those who have
    participated in the Deferred Resignation Program (DRP) and VERA
    programs, VA notes 78 percent of the these were retirement
    eligible, which reads to me that VA lost a significant amount
    of institutional knowledge and technical expertise.
        That is extremely troublesome, especially as the remaining
    VA's are poised to take on more and more work to compensate for
    contract cuts, staffing cuts and accelerated deployments.
        The fatigue that is likely to cause creates major risk for
    system stability and cybersecurity. I am also concerned about
    the office's reliance on quote, unquote natural attrition to
    reach whatever staffing goals that they have set for themselves
    or have been set for them. With national attrition you can
    control the size of the team, but it is much harder to control
    the composition. VA has already lost critical technology
    expertise and if the Department does not get this under
    control, it is going to lose even more.
        Ultimately, I am concerned that if VA's IT foundation is
    allowed to continue crumbling, the Department will not be there
    for generations of veterans. We cannot allow this to happen.
        I look forward to hearing from both the VA and U.S.
    Government Accountability Office (GAO) witnesses today on this
    reorganization and the potential intended and unintended
    impacts. I will close by saying that I hope VA gets a Senate
    confirmed CIO soon.
        I hope that whoever the administration chooses, they are
    competent and qualified to lead one of largest information and
    technology programs in the country, if not the world. VA
    employees and veterans deserve nothing less.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
        I am now going to introduce our witnesses from VA's Office
    of Information Technology, Mr. Eddie Pool, acting assistant
    secretary for information technology and chief information
    officer. A very long title, sir. Thank you for being here.
        Accompanying Mr. Pool is Mr. Jack Galvin, the acting
    principal deputy assistant secretary and deputy chief
    information officer. Also lot to fit on a business card.
        Mr. Tim Puetz, deputy information officer for IT budget and
    finance and Chief Financial Officer.
        Ms. Devon Beard, acting deputy chief information officer
    for people science and chief people officer. I think we used to
    call that Human Resources (HR). Is that correct? Okay, thank
    you.
        Finally, we have Ms. Carol Harris, the director of
    information technology and cybersecurity at the and Government
    Accountability Office. I was telling my staff, Carol, that I
    think we are just going to have to get you an office in the
    Cannon building at this point since you are here as frequently
    as you are and we appreciate your willingness to come
    participate and give us your insight.
        Thank you all.
        I ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right-
    hand.
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you and let the reflect that all
    witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
        Mr. Pool, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
    your opening statement on behalf of VA.

                        STATEMENT OF EDDIE POOL

        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Barrett, Ranking
    Member Budzinski, and distinguished members of the
    subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on
    behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Office of
    Information and Technology. I am Eddie Pool performing the
    delegatable duties of the assistant secretary for OIT and VA's
    chief information officer.
        I am honored to appear before you to provide an update on
    the status of OI and T and the critical work we are doing to
    deliver secure, modern and veteran-centered IT solutions. I am
    accompanied by my OI and T colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz chief
    financial officer and deputy CIO for IT, budget and finance.
    Mr. Jack Galvin, deputy CIO for end user services and acting
    principal deputy assistant secretary for OI and T. Ms. Devon
    Beard, acting deputy CIO and chief people officer for the
    office of people science.
        Today I will focus on three strategic imperatives, budget
    optimization, workforce reshaping and cybersecurity dominance.
        First the budget, we are executing a bold, mission-first
    approach so every dollar delivers maximum value to our Nation's
    veterans. Over the past few months we have conducted an
    exhaustive review of our budgets, resulting in the immediate
    reinvestment of $89 million into infrastructure readiness
    programs with an additional 100 million poised for strategic
    reinvestment.
        We have intensified contract oversight and enforced
    accountability with acquisition partners without degrading
    service delivery. In many instances we have enhanced delivery
    of those services. We are consolidating VA's digital experience
    into a single modern platform with the goal of securely and
    seamlessly delivering the benefits and services to our Nation's
    veterans.
        This platform now supports over 16 million monthly unique
    users, along with over 3 million veterans who have downloaded
    the VA mobile app. Our overarching goal is to bring VA to the
    veteran through this platform.
        Additionally, we are launching an initiative to consolidate
    VA context and it is to deliver an improved experience for
    veterans, whether it be just by phone, chat, text or other
    methods.
        To further optimize, we are requesting changes to
    appropriation language to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts
    and authorize a 3-year availability for IT funds. This will
    empower VA to plan and execute with greater agility, a line of
    investments with outcomes, minimize procurement risk and
    operational delays.
        Second, the workforce. We are reshaping OI and T's
    workforce to achieve veteran-facing outcomes with speed and
    precision. Through participation in U.S. Office Personnel
    Management (OPM) and the VA deferred retirement programs and
    voluntary early retirement authorities, 78 percent of voluntary
    departures resulted in retirements.
        In our reshaping efforts we are simplifying our
    organizational structure and reallocating and aligning
    positions to critical IT functions. This reorganization
    reallocation of positions is designed to cut bureaucratic
    overhead, accelerate decision-making and focus every OI and T
    position on delivering secure, reliable and modern IT solutions
    to improve veterans' lives.
        Finally, cybersecurity. Cybersecurity threats are not
    static and neither is our posture. We are pivoting from
    compliance based checked boxes to dynamic threat informed
    defenses with proactive risk mitigation to stay ahead of
    evolving threats. This shift demands that Federal Information
    Security Modernization Act (FISMA) and Federal Information
    Systems Control Audit Manual (FISCAM) audits accurately reflect
    the complexity and operational reality of VA's massive digital
    infrastructure.
        We are implementing Zero Trust architecture (ZTA),
    enterprise wide, instilling a security-first mindset that
    includes rigorous identity verification, continuous monitoring
    and strict access controls. Our success requires continued
    reinvestment in modern cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel
    and rigorous standardized processes. The sensitive information
    we steward demands nothing less than unwavering vigilance and
    world class cyber defenses.
        In conclusion, the changes we are implementing are focused
    on a single mission, delivering unparalleled, life-changing
    outcomes to America's veterans. We are not simply modernizing
    IT systems, we are building a future-ready VA, where platforms
    are secure, teams are agile and every taxpayer dollar generates
    maximum impact for the veterans we serve.
        With that, I welcome your questions.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Eddie Pool Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Mr. Pool. Your written statement
    will be entered into the hearing record.
        I assume the rest of your panel from VA is accounted for in
    your remarks as well. Thank you.
        I will now go to Ms. Harris, you are recognized for 5
    minutes to deliver your opening statement on behalf of GAO.

                       STATEMENT OF CAROL HARRIS

        Ms. Harris. Thank you, Chairman Barrett and Ranking Member
    Budzinski. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about VA as you
    examine the Department's planned efforts to reform within its
    Office of Information Technology. VA operates and maintains an
    IT infrastructure that is intended to provide the backbone
    necessary to meet the day-to-day operational needs of its
    medical centers, veteran-facing systems, benefits delivery
    system, memorial services and all other systems supporting the
    Department's mission. It is also responsible for protecting
    veteran data against cybersecurity threats.
        We have reported on VA's challenges with managing a myriad
    of major IT acquisitions and operations such as software
    licensing and cloud procurement over the years. VA's track
    record of delivering failed or troubled IT systems is in large
    part why we designated VA healthcare as a high risk area for
    the Federal Government in 2015. We also added VA acquisition
    management to our high-risk list in 2019 due challenges with
    managing its acquisition workforce and inadequate strategies
    and policies among other things. Both areas remain high risk
    today.
        As requested, I will highlight some key reform efforts of
    VA's IT Fiscal Year 2026 IT budget request and then our work on
    leading practices and selected questions for assessing agency
    reform.
        The VA has requested $7.3 billion to fund its IT systems in
    Fiscal Year 2026, an $300 million overall decrease from the
    prior year. It has also requested funding to support roughly
    7,000 full-time equivalent (FTE) employees, which is an overall
    decrease of about 11.7 percent from the 2025 enacted levels.
        Additionally, the budget request proposed amounts also
    reflects reduced spending on duplicative legacy systems and
    pauses a procurement of new systems until VA can conduct a full
    review of them resulting in about a $500 million reduction.
        Further, the VA's request states that a reduction of 931
    full-time equivalents is consistent with maturing technology
    delivery models and a shift toward automation and digital
    services.
        We have found that effective reform efforts require a
    combination of people, processes, technologies and other
    critical success factors to achieve results. Our prior work
    describes 12 leading practices that Federal agencies can use in
    agency reform efforts, including efforts to streamline and
    improve the efficiency and effectiveness of operations.
        These 12 practices fall into four broad categories such as
    the process for developing reforms and strategically managing
    the Federal workforce. Our prior work also identifies key
    questions that can be used to assess the development and
    implementation of agency reforms. For example, what data and
    evidence has the agency used to develop and justify its
    proposed reforms? How has the agency ensured their continued
    delivery of services during reform implementation.
        To what extent has the agency conducted strategic workforce
    planning to determine whether it will have the needed resources
    and capacity, including the skills and competencies in place
    for the proposed reforms. Consideration of these leading
    practice and relevant questions can benefit VA's development
    and implementation of its reform efforts.
        My hope is that VA will be able to satisfactorily answer
    these key questions for you today. If not, be able to pivot, to
    do the work necessary and adjust plans accordingly, to be able
    to give you satisfactory responses in the near future. Because
    if these leading practices and relevant questions are
    effectively implemented, such efforts can result in success in
    overcoming VA's long history of ineffectively managing IT
    resources.
        On a final note, we have 26 open recommendations that
    relate to the VA's IT operations and cybersecurity posture.
    They are foundational in nature so I strongly urge the
    Department to get those fully addressed quickly. Doing so will
    put them in a stronger position to succeed in many of their
    plans for form initiative.
        That concludes my statement and I look forward to
    addressing your questions.

        [The Prepared Statement Of Carol Harris Appears In The
    Appendix]

        Mr. Barrett. Thank you for your testimony, Ms. Harris. The
    written statement you provided will be entered into the hearing
    record.
        From here we will proceed with questioning. I will
    recognize myself for 5 minutes. Thank you all for participating
    in today's hearing.
        Mr. Pool I wanted to begin with your statements and have
    some questions for you. The Fiscal Year 2026 budget document
    that OIT has laid out a smarter, not bigger IT strategy. Can
    you give me some examples of how OIT is not being as smart as
    they could be currently.
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman for the question. To your
    comments that you made in your opening remarks, I believe it
    was the stuff that is never used. That is stuff we are no
    longer doing. Our budget for 2026 and beyond will be spent on
    things that again drive maximum value to the veteran community.
    Things that do not have a use or do not provide value or
    maximum value, those will be repurposed and reinvested where
    again we are getting the biggest bang for our buck for the
    veterans of this country, as they deserve.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that.
        From there, can you tell me how you are reorganizing your
    workforce to deliver services more efficiently, through the
    process improvement that you kind of touched on in your opening
    remarks.
        Mr. Pool. Sure, thank you, Mr. Chairman, again. OI and T's
    reorganization we are focusing again not just our investment
    capital, but our human capital as well, making sure that our
    organization is aligned to effectively deliver the most
    significant outcomes that we can for the Department. Where we
    have things that again are not driving significant value, we
    are looking, analyzing and realigning those functions to again
    bring that--bring those outcomes that we are after.
        Essentially, we are simply making sure that every decision
    that we make, every dollar we spend, every realignment,
    repurpose--everything that we do, again our north star is that
    we are driving absolute maximum value for the Department and in
    turn the greatest impact we can make on the veteran community.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Would you agree with me that
    essentially IT and this technological improvement is done to
    alleviate the need for more manual, human-driven processes that
    we can rely more on automated features or more technology-
    driven process improvement, thereby requiring us to have fewer
    manual processes in there. As a result, fewer people involved
    in that chain of activity going on.
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, absolutely. It is
    about automating what we can automate. Working smarter, not
    harder, absolutely.
        Mr. Barrett. Yes, I do not think we--it is not the position
    of me or certainly of others I assume on this committee to
    completely automate anything to the point that we do not have
    human interaction in the process to bring about the best
    outcome necessary. I think since the dawn of technology we have
    used it to do things to alleviate the necessitation of manual,
    you know, processes in labor along the way.
        The discussion around reduction in some of the IT staff
    around 12 percent I think Ms. Harris pointed out a little bit
    more at 11. something, close to 12 percent. Can you give us
    some insight into what that would involve and who exactly would
    be impacted by that?
        Mr. Pool. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. Yes,
    in terms of the overall staffing numbers today, we are at
    approximately 8,205 FTEs. As part of our organizational
    reshaping, a lot of those billets are being looked at and
    analyzed. Like I said, the goal is not to reduce necessarily
    the numbers, but it is to make sure that we are optimizing how
    we allocate those resources.
        I will turn it over to Ms. Devon Beard who can speak a
    little bit more about the breakdown of the numbers for you.
    Thank you.
        Ms. Beard. Yes, we are currently about a decrease of 100
    employees from the start of January. We did participate in the
    OPM, VA and VERA program within the VA. Those were sprinkled
    across our organization but we were able to sustain those
    without any impact to our veterans due to succession planning,
    cross training, upscaling, reassignments. The tools that are in
    our toolkit to make sure that we every day have the resources
    that we need to meet our veterans.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Can you briefly I have only go
    about 15 seconds left can you condition firm that no position
    with actual IT application, like interfacing, coding, things of
    that sort are being eliminated throughout any of this process.
        Ms. Beard. Once again, we are going through the workforce
    reshaping activities. Those are all being focused on are they
    delivering the largest value. As long as they align with our
    guiding light, then absolutely we are retaining those so we can
    meet our mission.
        Mr. Barrett. Okay. I was told in some briefing ahead of
    this that it was mostly in support, not to wreck IT interfacing
    positions, but more in the supportive roles of that. Can you
    confirm that?
        Ms. Beard. Yes, I can confirm a lot of back office or
    administrative type support functions are absolutely being
    evaluated. As you mentioned in your opening do the processes
    that we have today need to remain in the way that they are? Are
    there redundancies that have built up over time that we need to
    reevaluate and make sure that we can accomplish what is still
    needed but do it in a most effective manner.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
        Ranking Member Budzinski, for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman. I will actually try to
    pick up where you left off here. My question was going to be
    for Mr. Pool, but I will open it up to Ms. Beard as well if you
    have answers to this.
        Were you just saying that there were 100 people that have
    taken either the DRP or the VERA, they have accepted--you have
    accepted their resignations, 100 people within OIT? Is that
    what you had said.
        Mr. Pool. Let me hand it over to Ms. Beard, ranking member.
    It is actually not 100, it is actually somewhat north of that.
    Ms. Beard.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay.
        Ms. Beard. Our total participation in the program is 1,172
    as of today.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay, that took advantage of one of those
    too. Okay.
        Ms. Beard. Yes.
        Ms. Budzinski. Then when you were talking about it and I
    appreciate what were you saying that these are folks that were
    providing support. I guess my concern is that support does that
    support the overall mission of OIT so at what level or what
    point does that type of a level of vacancies then erode the
    overall mission of OIT----
        I guess I will direct this to you, Mr. Pool--if you could
    kind of further elaborate on when you were accepting these
    early retirements or resignations, how did you kind of consider
    that when they came to you? Does it in any way erode what you
    are trying to accomplish within OIT.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski.
        Yes, to answer your question this is largely an opportunity
    where we have looked at where duplicated functions exist but
    then IT and where these administrative functions are being
    performed elsewhere.
        I will use HR as an example where in OI and T we built our
    own HR function within the IT department. This is a shared
    service that we can get from the Department level HR area so
    that in itself is a pretty significant opportunity where we are
    able to basically reinvest back into the mission focused
    functions of IT. To be as, again, as mission facing, mission
    purposed as we possibly can.
        Ms. Budzinski. I guess would it be possible to provide to
    this subcommittee kind of a list of you know who participated
    in this reorganization and where these resignations or early
    retirements have come, just so we can kind of better
    understand.
        I appreciate the example you gave with HR but obviously if
    it is well north of 1,000 people, just concerned about where
    all those are coming from.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman. We can absolutely do that.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay, thank you.
        Could I just ask, Ms. Harris, could you kind of elaborate a
    little bit on, you know, what you have been able to observe as
    far as OIT's workforce planning and how they looked at this? I
    know they have done a significant amount of restructuring.
        Ms. Harris. Yes so back in January 2025 we actually issued
    a report evaluating VA's cyber workforce in particular. I think
    those trends can probably be applied across OIT. What we found
    was OIT's strategic workforce plan was incomplete. They do not
    have an inventory of their current workforce skills and
    competencies so in terms of if, you know, with the
    restructuring not even having a baseline of what it is that
    they have, it is going to be difficult to tell, okay, from
    there what is it that you are going to project to and what you
    are going to need in the future.
        They also did not comprehensively identify their current
    and future human capital needs and skills and competencies.
    Those are essential things that you are going to need with any
    reform effort. Whatever your goals are and objectives are for a
    reform effort, you are going to need to make sure that the
    workforce matches that need.
        Being able to have those processes in place and have a
    complete picture of what you currently have and what you need
    to have in the future to match your reform effort, that is
    essential. Right now VA does not have that capability. We have
    open recommendations related to that.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Could I just, Mr. Pool, ask you to
    kind of respond to that? I would be curious kind of how you
    might have looked through your processes in these different
    early retirements, what processes were in place?
        Talk a little bit more about that and kind of trying to
    meet it metric I think the GAO is pointing out being important
    to the overall--again, the mission of OIT.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, thank you for the question again,
    Congresswoman.
        We looked at every single one of the individuals that took
    advantage of these opportunities and assessed that from a
    leadership perspective to ensure that this would not create any
    operational gaps or introduce unnecessary risk to the
    Department. Going through that process we made certain that in
    order to honor the request, the voluntary requests that were
    being submitted and again we had mitigation strategies in place
    to ensure continuity of operations.
        As I mentioned previously, it gave us the opportunity to
    actually bring efficiencies in some areas and optimize some of
    those processes and workflows to really again provide a better
    outcome for the Department. It was very, very rationalized and
    very, very closely analyzed as we went about that process.
        Ms. Budzinski. I think I am out of time, but I will yield
    back for now.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick for 5
    minutes.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chair Barrett and thank
    you Ranking Member Budzinski for convening today's hearing.
        As a former healthcare executive and former ranking member
    of this subcommittee, I understand that information technology
    is vital in delivering world class healthcare in fulfilling our
    sacred promise to our veterans. I also know that significant
    organizational change can be disruptive, but often necessary.
        The way Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Mr.
    Vogt have approached these changes at OIT seemed intentionally
    cruel. I have heard you trying to right this ship and recognize
    the valuable contributions of the employees while implementing
    the change. Mr. Pool, what other steps are you taking to repair
    employee morale?
        Mr. Pool. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. It is
    a good opportunity to talk about the bigger picture at VA.
    Obviously change is very challenging. In this particular
    instance change is very necessary. It is an opportunity under
    this administration to really improve the things that VA on a
    scale have really not seen before.
        As we go about that, we are doing very frequent
    communications. We have a lot of activities underway. We have
    surveying and taking a pulse of the organization. Again, just
    to check in a make sure, you know, the workforce is getting the
    information that they need.
        Particularly through the DRP programs we made certain that
    we had lots of frequent communications, lots of options, lots
    of questions and answers with the workforce so that the
    employees could make the best decision for themselves and their
    families, given the opportunity that has presented.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. What are you doing to bolster
    retention efforts?
        Mr. Pool. To bolster retention efforts we are again making
    our mission focus back on the veteran. We are focusing
    exclusively on trying to optimize everything that we do to
    drive maximum value.
        I think that in itself has been a uniter with the staff and
    a good focus on the organization to really again focus on our
    core mission, what can we do to improve services to veterans
    across the board through technology.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Do you have any mechanisms in
    place that can actually truly track feedback to make sure that
    you are getting the desired effect?
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Congresswoman, we absolutely actually do. In
    fact, I will yield to Ms. Beard who will talk a little bit more
    about those mechanisms.
        Ms. Beard. Yes, thank you for the questions. During a time
    of change it is so important to have strong communications with
    the staff that make sure that we are providing back the
    visibility and understanding and why we are doing what we are
    doing. Since January especially we have been doing a lot of
    town halls and other communications.
        We have an over 80 percent satisfaction rate with over 78
    percent attendance, so good saturation along with strong
    satisfaction. On the development side, we also have released a
    career developmental portal for all categories along the
    National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
    cybersecurity codes for employees that focuses on not only
    assessing their current skills and upscaling into the areas
    they want to do.
        Our focus around retention is not only to take care of them
    now, but also take care of what the VA's going to need and what
    they need to continue their growth here with OI and T.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. My next question has to
    do the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO), because there
    has been significant changes within the organization. How much
    involvement has the CISO had?
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. She has been involved
    as has her executive team. I believe that organization has four
    executives in the Department. What we have done is primarily
    focused on the operational aspects and then again with the CISO
    herself, that is going to be more focused on the policy side of
    things.
        Operationally, we are looking at those immediate concerns,
    but as we evolve and grow throughout this reshaping effort,
    this will be probably much more involvement on the policy side.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. How much control and execution
    control does she have?
        Mr. Pool. Congressman, I am not sure I understand the
    question.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, how much control,
    operational control over the execution does the CISO have,
    since that person is going to be held accountable. How much
    control will they have?
        Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I would say quite a bit of
    control, I mean this is an environment where we welcome
    feedback from all areas of the organization. Where that is
    available to collect and inform our strategy we certainly
    maximize the opportunity to collect that so----
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Why is the CISO not here today?
        Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, I cannot really speak to that. I
    know that operationally most of the components for our
    reshaping are being aligned more toward the technical
    operations side of the organization like moving security
    functions where the next to the operations they support and.
    Most of that is under Mr. Jack Galvin to my left.
        I thought given the organizational direction we were going
    I thought given the organizational direction we go in it would
    probably be better to have Mr. Galvin here to speak to some of
    those issues.
        Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. I only have a second left, I just
    want to say that I do have some deep concerns that we will be
    holding this person accountable and they are not here to
    actually talk about the level of control they and what they
    have been--how they have been participating.
        Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you.
        I recognize myself for 5 minutes again. Mr. Galvin, I want
    to make sure we get your parking validated for your
    participation today so I have got to ask you a question. OIT
    has gone through reorganizations in the past, can you tell me
    what is different about this current reorganization and what
    lessons learned we have had that we can apply to this process
    that we are in now.
        Mr. Galvin. Sure, thanks for that question, chair. You
    know, I think the big game changer for this one is the singular
    focus that the administration has put on standardization and
    priority on veteran outcomes. You know, when you had your
    hearing on the software asset management for instance, you
    know. We are having conversations now that it is on the how not
    the why.
        We are all in sync with what our priorities are. Saving
    duplication, enabling functions for software for instance that
    do not duplicate but solve the requirement at hand. I think
    that is the big game changer I think or change in this
    organizational change and, you know, in the past. Been through
    many of them, each one is built upon each other, you know.
        I would like to say that principles have staying powers,
    there are priorities that change, but principles of operation,
    especially in IT, have staying power. We still have the
    principle of cybersecurity, the protection of veteran data,
    the--you know, performance, service performance, ensuring we
    are accountable for system reliability and accountability. I
    think to speak to some of the other conversation is there is an
    excitement building now to deliver, you know, real outcomes,
    you know, Electronic Health Record Modernization (EHRM)
    acceleration.
        I mean, we are champing at the bit to show that, you know,
    in your area in Michigan we are ready to go. Our four sites in
    Michigan are already prepared in terms of their heavy lift IT
    infrastructure. We have a complete dashboard that shows every
    site in across the VA in terms of their readiness status.
        In fact, all 13 sites in the next year in Fiscal Year 2026
    are ready in those four key areas of devices, network
    infrastructure, wireless, all of that is done already. In fact,
    next year we will be working on Fiscal Year 2027, thanks to Dr.
    Puetz here in keeping a steady flow of the infrastructure
    readiness program and the funding that we have for technical
    debt.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you, I appreciate that. I understood
    some of what you said so that was helpful.
        The--to me if feels like in the past some of what we were
    doing with technology was like layering on, stacking up instead
    of replacing the systems with one another, we were kind of
    adding to and layering up and up and up and next thing you know
    we have got so many systems, it is not as many unique users
    using each one of them, but nobody wants to give up the legacy
    model of whatever they had that they were used to using instead
    of kind of learning along the way and upgrading into what they
    were, you know, more familiar with.
        I remember when, what was it, one of the legacy windows
    versions finally stopped being supported and people were
    struggling to, you know, move up to whatever the next of newer
    generation of that was.
        Sometimes that is necessary and I feel like with technology
    we cannot move at the pace of the slowest participant. We have
    to move at the pace that is necessary to move the organization
    along. I think that having that in mind is important.
        I have heard the Secretary speak a number of times at some
    of his observations and how when he walked in the door on his
    first day he could not even know how many people were in the
    department and where they were all assigned because he had
    different payroll systems and different human resources
    management systems and all these other things that are not--
    again, delivering care and benefits to veterans, they are
    simply the--running the system itself.
        They are kind of a drag, if you will, on the efficiency of
    the overall system if we have duplicative processes and more
    than on system in place doing the same thing or this, you know,
    part of the department over here is using this thing, but this
    department is using that. They do the same or they have the
    same purpose, but they are now duplicative in nature and then
    you have got to have IT resources designed to cover both of
    those, when instead you could have one that covers the total
    systems.
        I think that there is a lot there that can be done better.
    I think, I hope that we all recognize that, especially when it
    relates to IT.
        Dr. Puetz, can you tell us from your perspective how
    important is it from a resource allocation perspective to have
    an efficiently organized workforce, specifically around these
    IT projects so that people kind of know their mission and they
    have the sight focus that they need?
        Dr. Puetz. Thank you for the question, chairman. When we
    talk about resources, people and money, it is only as effective
    as we put against the actions that drive outcomes.
        It is very important to answer your question that we have
    that aligned. Like we talked about in the beginning, it is not
    about bigger budgets, it is about smarter budgets.
        That is where that alignment occurs. Do you have the
    traceability from the dollars that were requested through the
    activities that they were invested in to ultimately what is
    produced for the veteran at the end of the day.
        It is about setting controls, working with Inspector
    General (IG) to have controlled environment, to make sure that
    the plan is impacted as placed by the Department.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I appreciate that. I am out of time
    on this round of questions. I will yield to Ranking Member
    Budzinski for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Budzinski. I would just like to say, you know, I hear
    you when you say this about smarter, not bigger. Part of today
    is not--anybody is talking about bigger, we are talking about
    bigger cuts, cuts that are actually happening and what that is
    going to mean for what the mission is for OIT, that is more
    of--that is my concern.
        I do want to go back to this question about staffing and
    the lower levels of staffing through the DRP, the VERA and then
    natural attrition.
        Mr. Pool, if I could ask you IT staffing looks now lower
    than what is budgeted for Fiscal Year 2026. Will OIT now need
    to rehire staff after essentially paying employees to leave?
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman, for the question. Yes,
    we will likely need to continue to hire folks, just as we will
    in perpetuity. It is a cyclical thing you have got people
    coming in and going out and different life cycles of the
    employment process. Many of the folks that left were again
    retirement eligible.
        As I mentioned before, 78 percent of those resulted in
    retirements. We will continue to recruit. We will bring in new
    folks to the workforce. As we do that, we will be focusing
    exclusively on mission.
        Whereas we might have hired across the board previously we
    are going to be looking at prioritizing for the most again
    value added opportunities and how we are driving the mission
    forward for the Department as we----
        Ms. Budzinski. I cannot imagine you could hire new folks. I
    mean for those that have left can you imagine having to rehire
    any of them because the vacancy itself is too critical, they
    left, we have to bring them back. Can you see that happening?
        Mr. Pool. Congresswoman no, I would not see that happening.
    Again, as we went through this process, we put a lot of rigor
    behind how we approved folks that wanted to take advantage of
    these opportunities and making sure that we did not create any
    operational gaps.
        It would be highly unlikely that we would be hiring folks
    back. As a contingency, many of them are again available to the
    end of year, but I do not anticipate that being a contingency,
    we would have to exercise it.
        Ms. Budzinski. I should say, like, some of my concern is
    coming from the fact that over the last 8 years it seems like
    OIT staff--the OIT department has been saying we are way
    understaffed and now we have seen a major attrition of
    employees over just this last 6 months.
        I guess that is part of where my concern is, but the
    question I would also have is how are you then prioritizing?
    When you are talking about mission and we want everything to be
    mission driven of course, but within that mission you are going
    to have to make probably with less staff some really hard
    decisions on what is prioritized and what it not. Can you walk
    me through what that looks like.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, certainly. You know, it goes back to the
    opportunity here with standardization. You know, previously in
    the construct that you referred to, OI and T would be in
    position to support maybe five, six, seven, 10 or more similar
    type workflows capabilities or systems across the Department
    for one set of capability.
        As the departments standardize down to a real enterprise
    process on how we do business that allows OI and T to in the
    come in and really automate an enterprise solution around those
    functions. That in itself will be a tremendous efficiency
    driver for how we staff the organization.
        Then second, as I mentioned previously as well we have a
    number of administrative functions that we have grown into the
    organization. We have a lot of things that do not--are not pure
    IT focus mission that are consuming resources within the
    Department.
        We are no different than the rest of the organization. We
    are going to get back to our core mission which is delivering
    IT and where we can get services and functions from other
    places in the Department that are not IT related, we will be
    pursuing that.
        Ms. Budzinski. Can you give me an example of what that
    would be?
        Mr. Pool. Sure, I will go back to the exam of HR, you know,
    we in IT over the previous administration decided to build our
    own HR function within the Office of Information Technology.
    That consumes 300 plus resources to do that.
        At the Department level, we do have an HR department. We
    have several HR options within the organization. Again it does
    not make a lot of sense financially or otherwise to build that
    function in house when we can leverage the Department level
    resources for that.
        Ms. Budzinski. I appreciate what you are saying about
    standardization because this comes up a lot. When we have been
    talking about the EHRM, moving that forward standardization
    seems to be really important.
        I would just kind of point out my bigger concern here is
    without enough people power to help the VA actually in OIT
    standardized that could set yourself up for failure if you do
    not have the people to do the standardization because the VA is
    such a unique place and has a lot of challenges as it relates
    to standardization so maybe easier said than done.
        I will I yield back.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. I will now recognize myself for 5
    minutes again.
        Mr. Pool, I wanted to circle back just for a moment on
    something the ranking member just asked you. You said there
    were 300--under the previous administration there were 300
    people in the HR part of the OIT, is that correct, doing HR
    functions?
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that was an estimate around
    300. I believe Ms. Beard has the exact number if you want or we
    can take that for the record but roughly 300 resources.
        Mr. Barrett. 300 out of 8,200, were doing HR functions that
    could have been or would have otherwise been done by the
    department as a whole and absorbed into the workflow of the
    Department into the I am sure robust HR portfolio of managing
    400 and some out thousand people within the Department. Would
    you say that is fairly accurate?
        Mr. Pool. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. I mean, again, that
    does put it in great perspective, you know. We have 8,200 folks
    roughly in OI and T, do we need a 300 person plus organization
    to do our own?
        We are driving the business to standardize on common
    technologies.
        Mr. Barrett. Right.
        Mr. Pool. We will do the same.
        Mr. Barrett. Ms. Beard, do you have anything further on
    that?
        Ms. Beard. Yes, I do have the number, it is 242. We do have
    some additional upcoming attritions through the programs that
    are impacting that, but to reinforce the focus about how we can
    once again make sure we still get the services we need for OI
    and T to meet our veterans needs, but also make sure that we
    have the capabilities to achieve that through with the HR
    functions.
        Mr. Barrett. Sure. Is that roughly 300 or 242 or the number
    you gave me, is that included in the roughly 1,100 that you
    talked about in, like, deferred retirements, things, that sort?
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. It is spread across the board.
    Again, we did not exempt any positions as part of that from OI
    and T perspective for the DRP programs or VERA. That 1,100
    consists of multiple different domains in areas within the
    organization.
        Mr. Barrett. Sure, but hey also those 300 people are not
    minimizing or suggesting they do not have a legitimate, you
    know, work ethic or anything, but if that job can be done on an
    aggregated level, there is not a reduction and benefit for a
    veteran or delayed in a claim or anything of that sort that
    would result from that job being done by a higher level
    department asset.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that is correct. Again, it
    is----
        Mr. Barrett. Those Chinese cyber attacks are affected by
    that? No, you know, no update to the mobile app that I use or
    veterans like me use throughout the management of our claim or
    interfacing with the VA so--okay.
        Mr. Pool. All right.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you. Mr. Pool, VA's budget documents
    describe a buy before build strategy. I think that is a good
    insight into some of the motivation for how we make this
    better, you know, we have to design it from the ground up or
    can we take something that is preexisting and kind of, you
    know, modify it for our use within the Department. Can you kind
    of give me some insight into how that works and what the
    motivation behind it was.
        Mr. Pool. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you for the
    question, it is a really good one in terms of how we are
    approaching optimizing the organization. The buy versus build
    is really driven by the need to look at enterprise standard
    tools out there today that can deliver functionality for the
    Department. Previously we have invested in building and
    building and building.
        We have a very large portfolio of products that are custom,
    they are built and maintained and we are perpetually stuck and
    a lot of those given to the legacy portfolio. When you go out
    and buy capability from industry, you can generally get the
    enterprise platform that you can consolidate a standard
    workflow and process for the Department on and maintain and
    keep that system modernized. Again, it is a much better model.
        With that comes increased cybersecurity, a lot of other--
    efficiencies in terms of just how we maintain those products.
        Mr. Barrett. Sure. I appreciate that. I had worked
    previously in our State treasurer's office a number of years
    ago and we were using legacy systems that were built from the
    ground up and we were having a hard time finding servers that
    would actually run them any longer. These things were 30 years
    old at the time.
        That was just one hardship that we were encountering,
    whereas if you have a processor or you have a product that is
    purchased off the market, it has the robust backbone necessary
    to kind of keep it functional and running just as one example
    and this necessitates less maintenance over time and people
    doing that to be sure.
        I am almost out of time so I am going to yield to the
    ranking member for 5 minutes for her questions.
        Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Pool, can you tell me why are millions of dollars being
    transferred out of OIT to plus up other parts of the Department
    when there are nearly 20 unaddressed, unfunded priorities on
    the 1:N list?
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congresswoman. You know, I cannot
    really speak much about what is driving transfers. I can speak
    about what we are investing in OI and T in. I will turn it over
    to Dr. Puetz, maybe he can provide some more insight for you on
    that.
        Dr. Puetz. There are two specific things that we need to
    address your question, the first is that there is OIT, but we
    are driving the larger department and for the needs for
    veterans across the entire Department. At the end of day we may
    have a 1:N list, but VA also has a 1:N list. Sometimes the
    other administrations and staff offices may have a priority
    over IT and that is a decision that sits with the Secretary.
        The second aspect of that is you asked about the 1:N list
    that exists within OIT. It is important to remember that when
    we submit that 1:N list it is part of our congressional
    justification, that is a point in time. Since that time when
    that is submitted, we almost immediately start funding into and
    against that list.
        That list that you have seen, we have been able to start to
    drive down our 1:N list. We look at lists monthly with our end
    of month close and where we able to identify savings, we are
    able to reinvest in real-time. We do not wait for the end of
    the year to come in and then pay our 1:N list, it is happening
    in real-time.
        Again, with budgets it is point in time. Good organizations
    are not just planning for the future, they are moving in real-
    time to create it.
        Ms. Budzinski. A follow-up question to that because I did
    take time to look at the 1:N and, like, the top 5 issues one
    was cybersecurity and incident report, the second was data
    privacy and security, the third was governance risk and
    compliance, you go to fifth it is threat and vulnerability
    management. These are all at the very top of the 1:N list.
    Those sound very serious to me. What you are saying is that
    those have been resolved.
        Dr. Puetz. In the opening testimony from Mr. Pool you have
    seen that when we were here last year about that time he said
    that we are carrying some risk within our cybersecurity and
    Incident Response Plan (IRP) and that we will fund against that
    to really buy down that risk.
        Ms. Budzinski. That is exactly my question, though.
        Dr. Puetz. That is exactly----
        Ms. Budzinski. Excuse me, excuse me. That is my question,
    though, as you have transferred money away. My understanding
    though is that if those millions of dollars, you know, the
    Fiscal Year 2026 budget request, $434.2 million decrease from
    Fiscal Year 2025, that difference alone from what we understand
    would basically solved 70 percent of what is on that 1:N list.
        Dr. Puetz. Yes, ma'am, that is correct. I can also say that
    we have invested over 100 million in our IRP and I just signed
    off documentation to put a major investment within our ZTA just
    in the last few days. The funding is being redirected to these
    key priorities and we are spending down against that risk.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay. Mr. Pool, your testimony highlights a
    reinvestment of nearly $200 million from contract
    cancellations. Can you provide the committee a full list of
    contacts canceled within OIT and where this money is being
    reinvested?
        Mr. Pool. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, we can take that
    back for the record and provide a list as requested.
        I would like to just add on the last question, just for
    clarity, our 1:N list are a capturing of requirements whether
    they be valid requirements or things that they would like to
    do. These are outside of our base budget normally.
        These are things that we know are unfunded largely, that we
    will be able to fund as funding becomes available, you know,
    for various reasons. This is how we prioritize those lists.
        The ones that you mentioned on top, those are largely ones
    that you can normally assume will be funded. It is when you get
    further down the list, just the racking and stacking to make
    sure that we capture those requirements and then we can invest
    in those as we are able to do throughout the fiscal year.
        Ms. Budzinski. Just to clarify, so you are saying that with
    the 434 million that is being cut from OIT's budget in Fiscal
    Year 2026, you are still going to be able to resolve all of
    that on the 1:N list?
        Mr. Pool. Congresswoman, like I mentioned previously with
    the standardization approach to how we are approaching things,
    again, the reference to where we may have 20, 30 different
    similar capabilities in the environment today, consolidating
    down to one enterprise platform, you know, again, the
    opportunity from a fiscal perspective is pretty substantial.
    Yes, I do believe with the funding that we have, we will be
    able to meet the majority of our needs.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I have a question about DOGE. Was DOGE
    or any of its representatives involved in the contracts that
    were canceled?
        Mr. Pool. We do not have DOGE employees at VA. I do
    understand that there is, being sensitive to ongoing
    litigation, that I am aware, is underway. We will have to refer
    you to our Office of General Counsel for our follow up on that.
        Ms. Budzinski. Okay. I am over time. Sorry about that.
        Mr. Barrett. That is okay. We are going to move to closing
    statements. I want to recognize you for your closing statement.
        Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you again to
    the witnesses for being here. I hope that both VA and OIT
    leadership have heard the concerns that I have raised today. I
    am not one for maintaining the status quo, nor throwing money
    at issues needlessly. I am not one for maintaining the status
    quo.
        Again, I do believe in mission-driven work. I appreciated
    those comments. Improvements to VA's organizational structure,
    processes, and strategies and operational workload can and
    should occur.
        However, as the ranking member of the Subcommittee on
    Jurisdiction of this jurisdiction, I believe that this change
    must happen methodically and must be driven by data. VA's IT
    foundation will not continue to support the Department's
    mission otherwise.
        Unfortunately, I have not had heard today anything that
    really reassures me here. VA's answers have not indicated that
    the reorganization staffing or budgetary decisions will reach
    using data or evidence-based strategic thinking.
        I am concerned that this was rushed to be finalized before
    a new permanent CIO could be confirmed. I would hope that the
    Department would delay implementing such drastic changes until
    a CIO can be appropriately named, vetted, and confirmed.
        Mr. Pool, I hope that we, and your team, can continue our
    dialog here and ensure that OIT can find the right balance in
    terms of structure and staffing. The work for your employees
    perform undergirds much of the work VA performs, and I want
    that talent to be recognized, appreciated, and cultivated. I
    hope you and whoever is confirmed as the next CIO share that
    same desire. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Barrett. Thank you, Ranking Member Budzinski, and thank
    you our panelists for being here today. I appreciate your
    insight and testimony to helping us drive, you know, good
    decision-making within this committee. Thank you.
        OIT, it stands hopefully without saying, but it has an
    important mission and many competing priorities. We even saw
    some of that on display here today. When everything becomes a
    priority, nothing then reaches the top of the list, right? We
    have to do a job of determining within those priorities what
    stands out as our most necessary attention.
        I am glad to see that under Secretary Collins leadership,
    OIT is reevaluating where they are investing, how they are
    utilizing their workforce, what they can do to be a more
    efficient organization. No organization, not even the Federal
    Government has unlimited resources.
        During this hearing, we have discussed several important
    steps that OIT is taking as part of its smarter, not bigger
    strategy to become a more effective and efficient organization.
        Starting fewer large development projects that come with
    the risk of ballooning budgets and poor outcomes, reevaluating
    the current organizational structure in order to make OIT a
    smarter and more resourceful organization, investing in IT
    infrastructure, cybersecurity monitoring, and reducing
    technical debt to make the VA more resilient.
        Some of things, Mr. Pool, that you pointed out about
    enterprise-wide, large-scale systems that can be delivered more
    efficiently with greater cybersecurity are important to see and
    review.
        I look forward to working with the OIT witnesses here today
    and once Mr. Cote is confirmed to accomplish these goals and
    more.
        As the chairman of this subcommittee, I will continue to
    ensure that OIT has the right priorities, the appropriate
    responsibilities, and is organized in a way that best supports
    the VA's mission.
        I ask unanimous consent that all members have five
    legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
    extraneous material. Without objection, that's so ordered. This
    hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

    =======================================================================

                             A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

    =======================================================================

                        Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                                  ----------

                        Prepared Statement of Eddie Pool

    Introduction

        Chairman Barrett, Ranking Member Budzinski, and distinguished
    Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify
    on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Office of
    Information and Technology (OIT). I am Eddie Pool, performing the
    delegable duties of the Assistant Secretary for Information and
    Technology and Chief Information Officer (CIO). I am honored to appear
    before you today to provide an update on the status of OIT and the
    critical work we are doing to deliver secure, modern, and Veteran-
    centered information technology (IT) solutions. I am accompanied by my
    OIT colleagues, Dr. Timothy Puetz, Chief Financial Officer and Deputy
    CIO for IT Budget and Finance; Mr. Jack Galvin, Deputy CIO for End User
    Services; and Ms. Devon Beard, Acting Deputy CIO and Chief People
    Officer for the Office of People Science.
        Let me center my remarks on three core priorities: budget
    modernization, workforce reshaping, and cybersecurity posture.

    Budget

        We are driving a bold and forward-thinking approach to budget
    modernization, one that matches the pace of today's technological
    landscape. Over the past few months, OIT has undertaken a comprehensive
    and rigorous review of our contracts and budget to ensure that every
    dollar spent delivers real value to Veterans and their families. During
    this process, we were able to reinvest $89 million into the
    infrastructure readiness program. Furthermore, we are positioned to
    reinvest an additional $100 million. The Improvement and Remediation
    Program (IRP) serves as the investment fund dedicated to ensuring all
    IT infrastructure such as endpoints, network, and datacenters is both
    ``Fit for Purpose'' through modernization efforts, and ``Fit for Use''
    via technology refresh initiatives. In recent years, the Office of
    Information and Technology (OIT) has effectively leveraged the IRP to
    address technical debt stemming from aging systems or solutions that no
    longer meet current requirements.
        Any contract terminations or modifications occurred after OIT
    assessed internal capabilities and confirmed that critical work could
    continue without disruption. This intentional, mission-first strategy
    has strengthened continuity, reduced complexity, and delivered smarter,
    more reliable IT capabilities. By intensifying our contract oversight
    and forging stronger coordination with our acquisition partners, we are
    decisively managing contract changes without compromising service
    delivery. This proactive approach not only boosts efficiency but also
    enables us to strategically redirect resources to mission-critical
    areas and emerging priorities, ensuring we remain agile and focused on
    delivering positive outcomes for Veterans.
        OIT is vigorously working to eliminate unnecessary expenses while
    maintaining operational readiness. These initiatives underscore our
    dedication to being responsible stewards of taxpayer dollars while
    effectively fulfilling our mission. Where necessary, we actively
    reassess the use of Government-furnished equipment, cut down on unused
    cellular lines, and enforce stricter eligibility criteria to guarantee
    that resources are allocated solely to essential personnel.
        We are also requesting changes to the appropriations language to
    allow VA to eliminate rigid statutory subaccounts and authorize a 3-
    year period of availability for IT funds. Granting a 3-year funding
    cycle will allow us to plan and execute across longer horizons, respond
    more effectively to real-time needs, and align investments with
    outcomes. These adjustments promote disciplined, results-driven
    investment while minimizing procurement risk and operational delays.
    Furthermore, we have implemented rigorous internal controls including
    quarterly reporting and CIO risk ratings to ensure accountability
    remains central.

    Workforce

        OIT is committed to deploying staff resources in the most effective
    and efficient way to better serve our Veteran community. OIT is
    actively engaged in workforce reshaping to ensure we assign resources
    to critical positions to meet the Department's mission.
        We are decisively aligning every staff resource to achieve Veteran-
    facing outcomes. Recently, we participated in the Office of Personnel
    Management and VA Deferred Resignation Program/Voluntary Early
    Retirement Authority. Among those who voluntarily participated, 78
    percent opted for retirement, with over 53 percent being Veterans who
    entered early retirement. This grants a unique ability to reallocate
    human capital to meet emerging mission needs, particularly in areas
    like cybersecurity and AI, thereby delivering better outcomes for
    Veterans. We are taking bold steps to reshape our workforce structure
    from nine service lines to three: Technical Operations, Product
    Delivery, and the Office of the Chief of Staff. This strategic
    realignment is designed to eliminate unnecessary bureaucracy,
    accelerate decision-making, and sharpen our focus on delivering
    innovative, impactful IT services that directly support Veterans.
        To build a robust workforce, OIT is prioritizing and reallocating
    staff to bolster essential functions. We are aligning our onboarding
    efforts with mission delivery to ensure we possess the technical
    capacity required to meet the Department's future needs. Our approach
    effectively balances immediate operational demands with long-term
    workforce planning, ensuring both continuity and readiness in all our
    endeavors.

    Cybersecurity

        Cybersecurity is a complex and constantly evolving threat. We are
    shifting our strategy toward dynamic, threat-informed defenses
    prioritizing proactive risk mitigation over reactive compliance. This
    is not just about meeting checkboxes anymore; it is about anticipating
    threats and acting before they happen. Federal Information Security
    Management Act/Federal Information System Controls Audit Manual audits
    must reflect the complexity of VA's digital infrastructure and the
    sophistication of adversaries we face. Our shift embraces dynamic,
    threat-informed defenses and promotes proactive mitigation over
    retrospective correction.
        OIT is promoting Zero Trust by fostering a security-first mindset
    across the Department and by prioritizing the protection of critical
    information and resources. Zero Trust is a security model and framework
    that operates on the principle that no user, device, or application
    should be trusted by default, regardless of whether they are inside or
    outside an organization's network. Instead, every access request must
    be continuously authenticated, authorized, and validated before
    granting access to resources.
        This approach involves rigorous identity verification, continuous
    monitoring, and strict access controls to ensure only authorized users
    interact with sensitive systems, such as those managing electronic
    health records that contain personally identifiable information and
    personal health information. This robust Zero Trust implementation
    delivers a seamless, secure experience for Veterans in an increasingly
    interconnected and threat-contested digital environment, while
    protecting patient safety, ensuring regulatory compliance, and
    maintaining the public's trust in VA.
        It is essential that the Department continues investing in modern
    cybersecurity tools, skilled personnel, and robust processes. VA's
    systems hold the personal information and health records of millions of
    Veterans, and we must protect these systems with the utmost seriousness
    and commitment they deserve.

    Conclusion

        In conclusion, every change we are implementing, whether it is
    enhancing accountability, transforming the workforce, or advancing
    cybersecurity, is firmly rooted in a singular mission: to deliver
    unparalleled service to our Veterans. We are not merely modernizing
    systems; we are constructing a future-ready VA where platforms are
    secure, teams are empowered, and every dollar generates a significant
    impact.
        I am eager to address your questions and collaborate with you to
    develop an IT enterprise that truly honors those who have served. Thank
    you.

                       Prepared Statement of Carol Harris
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