[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                EXPLORING THE USE OF UNMANNED AIRCRAFT
                  SYSTEMS ACROSS THE DHS ENTERPRISE

=======================================================================


                             JOINT HEARING

                               before the

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                    BORDER SECURITY AND ENFORCEMENT

                                and the

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                        EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND
                               TECHNOLOGY

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                             APRIL 1, 2025
                               __________

                           Serial No. 119-11
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                             
                             

               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                              __________
                                
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

61-303 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025







































                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas, Vice       Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
  Chair                                Ranking Member
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Eric Swalwell, California
Michael Guest, Mississippi           J. Luis Correa, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           Shri Thanedar, Michigan
August Pfluger, Texas                Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              Julie Johnson, Texas, Vice Ranking 
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma                Member
Elijah Crane, Arizona                Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              Nellie Pou, New Jersey
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Gabe Evans, Colorado                 Robert Garcia, California
Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania         Vacancy
Brad Knott, North Carolina
                    Eric Heighberger, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                       
                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON BORDER SECURITY AND ENFORCEMENT

                  Michael Guest, Mississippi, Chairman
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 J. Luis Correa, California, 
Elijah Crane, Arizona                  Ranking Member
Andrew Ogles, Tennessee              Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Sheri Biggs, South Carolina          Julie Johnson, Texas
Brad Knott, North Carolina           Vacant
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Vacant
  officio)                           Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                       (ex officio)
                Natasha Eby, Subcommittee Staff Director
       Brieana Marticorena, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
       
                                 ------                                

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY

                   Dale W. Strong, Alabama, Chairman
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma              Timothy M. Kennedy, New York, 
Gabe Evans, Colorado                   Ranking Member
Ryan Mackenzie, Pennsylvania         Julie Johnson, Texas
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Pablo Jose Hernandez, Puerto Rico
  officio)                           Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                       (ex officio)
               Diana Bergwin, Subcommittee Staff Director
          Lauren McClain, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
          































          
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable Michael Guest, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Mississippi, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Border 
  Security and Enforcement:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     3
The Honorable J. Luis Correa, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of California, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Border Security and Enforcement:
  Oral Statement.................................................     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     5
The Honorable Dale W. Strong, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Alabama, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Emergency 
  Management and Technology:
  Oral Statement.................................................     6
  Prepared Statement.............................................     7
The Honorable Timothy M. Kennedy, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of New York, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Emergency Management and Technology:
  Oral Statement.................................................     8
  Prepared Statement.............................................    10
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................    10

                               Witnesses

Mr. Bryan Farrell, Interim Director, Raspet Flight Research 
  Laboratory, Mississippi State University:
  Oral Statement.................................................    12
  Prepared Statement.............................................    13
Mr. Michael Ledbetter, Executive Vice President and Chief 
  Operating Officer, COLSA Corporation:
  Oral Statement.................................................    15
  Prepared Statement.............................................    17
Mr. Jerry H. Hendrix, Executive Director, Rotorcraft Systems 
  Engineering and Simulation Center, University of Alabama in 
  Huntsville:
  Oral Statement.................................................    19
  Prepared Statement.............................................    21
Chief Kevin Fetterman, Fire Division Chief, Division 4, Orange 
  County Fire Authority, On Behalf of the International 
  Association of Fire Chiefs:
  Oral Statement.................................................    25
  Prepared Statement.............................................    27

                             For the Record

The Honorable J. Luis Correa, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of California, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Border Security and Enforcement:
  Article, Department of Homeland Security.......................    32

 
                   EXPLORING THE USE  OF  UNMANNED AIR-
                    CRAFT SYSTEMS ACROSS THE DHS ENTER-
                    PRISE

                                ----------                              

                         Tuesday, April 1, 2025

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                           Subcommittee on Border Security 
                                   and Enforcement, and the
                                 Subcommittee on Emergency 
                                 Management and Technology,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:39 p.m., in 
room 310, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Michael Guest 
(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Guest, Strong, Biggs, Knott, 
Correa, Kennedy, and Ramirez.
    Mr. Guest. Good afternoon. The Committee on Homeland 
Security, Committee on Border Security and Enforcement and 
Subcommittee on Emergency Management and Technology will now 
come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare the 
committee in recess at any point.
    The purpose of this hearing is to examine the Department of 
Homeland Security's use of unmanned aircraft systems across 
DHS's components to enhance situation awareness and increase 
capabilities across its mission.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
    Today we convene to examine the expanding role of unmanned 
aircraft systems across the Department of Homeland Security. 
UAS technology, more commonly simply referred to as drones, 
play a critical role in border security, drug interdiction, 
disaster mitigation, and emergency response.
    As the United States faces evolving security threats, 
drones have become an important tool, and serve as a force 
multiplier for both law enforcement and first responders. 
Drones can provide Federal law enforcement with faster response 
times and a tactical advantage to include surveillance, remote 
tracking, aid delivery, and intelligence collection.
    Since 2005, the Department of Homeland Security has 
integrated unmanned aircraft systems into its border security 
mission. Drones have equipped Customs and Border Protection 
with the ability to locate and track threats in the air, while 
also increasing officer and agent safety on the ground. CBP 
operates several UAS programs, including a small UAS program 
enabling rapid deployment of quadrocopters to provide United 
States Border Patrol agents with real-time situational 
awareness. Thanks to the integration of this drone technology, 
CBP seized approximately 2,800 pounds of illicit narcotics from 
fiscal year 2020 through fiscal year 2023.
    CBP's air and marine operations oversee the agency's large 
unmanned aircraft fleet. The MQ-9s, a critical asset in border 
security and surveillance operation, has extended the eyes of 
agents in the land and maritime environments. Equipped with 
cutting-edge radar systems, these platforms operate covertly, 
significantly enhancing situational awareness, threat 
detection, and interdiction capabilities to strengthen our 
national security.
    In addition to border security, drones are also deployed in 
response to natural disasters and national emergencies. In 
Mississippi, we have seen how these systems have proven 
invaluable to law enforcement and first responders assisting in 
search-and-rescue missions in the aftermath of hurricanes, 
tornadoes, floods, fires, and other disasters.
    In this ever-evolving field, partnering with private 
industry and public institutions are critical to enhance law 
enforcement's capabilities. DHS partnerships like the one with 
Mississippi State University's Raspet Flight Research 
Laboratory have contributed to multiple advances in UAS 
applications.
    Drones have undeniably strengthened DHS operations by 
increasing efficiency, reducing manpower requirements, and 
saving American lives. As technology continues to evolve, it is 
imperative that DHS further develop and define these 
capabilities.
    I believe that Congress has a responsibility to ensure that 
DHS, along with its public and private partners, has the 
necessary resources to advance the critical technology in 
support of national security and public safety. I hope this 
hearing provides us with some concrete ideas on which this body 
can act in furthering this important mission on behalf of our 
fellow citizens.
    Before I yield to the Ranking Member, I would like to take 
a moment to thank Supervisory Special Agent Larry Martino for 
his outstanding contributions to the committee. Over the past 
18 months, Agent Martino has been detailed to the Border 
Security and Enforcement Subcommittee where he has provided 
invaluable expertise and guidance on critical border security 
matters. His deep knowledge, dedication, and commitment to 
strengthening our national security has been instrumental in 
shaping key policy discussions and legislative initiatives.
    Next week, Agent Martino will return to his home agency, 
HSI, where he will continue to play a vital role in combating 
transnational crime, enforcing immigration law, and protecting 
our national security. I extend the committee's sincere 
gratitude for his service in safeguarding our great Nation.
    At this time I would like to recognize the Ranking Member 
for the Subcommittee on Border Security and Enforcement, the 
gentleman from the great State of California, Mr. Correa, for 
his opening statement.
    [The statement of Chairman Guest follows:]
    
                  Statement of Chairman Michael Guest
                  
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Today, we convene to examine the expanding role of Unmanned 
Aircraft Systems across the Department of Homeland Security. UAS 
technology, more commonly referred to simply as ``drones,'' play a 
critical role in border security, drug interdiction, disaster 
mitigation, and emergency response. As the United States faces evolving 
security threats, drones have become an important tool and serve as a 
force multiplier for both law enforcement and first responders. Drones 
can provide Federal law enforcement with faster response times and a 
tactical advantage, to include surveillance, reconnaissance, remote 
tracking, aid delivery, and intelligence collection.
    Since 2005, the Department of Homeland Security has integrated 
unmanned aircraft systems into its border security mission. Drones have 
equipped Customs and Border Protection--CBP--with the ability to locate 
and track threats in the air, while also increasing officer and agent 
safety on the ground. CBP operates several UAS programs including a 
small-UAS program enabling rapid deployment of quadcopters to provide 
U.S. Border Patrol agents with real-time situational awareness. Thanks 
to the integration of this drone technology, CBP seized approximately 
2,800 pounds of illicit narcotics from fiscal year 2020 through 2023.
    CBP's Air and Marine Operations oversees the agency's large 
Unmanned Aircraft fleet. MQ-9s, a critical asset in border security and 
surveillance operations, has extended the eyes of agents in the land 
and maritime environments. Equipped with cutting-edge radar systems, 
these platforms operate covertly, significantly enhancing situational 
awareness, threat detection, and interdiction capabilities to 
strengthen our national security.
    In addition to border security, drones are also deployed in 
response to natural disasters and national emergencies. In Mississippi, 
we have seen how these systems have proven invaluable to law 
enforcement and first responders, assisting in search-and-rescue 
missions in the aftermath of hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, and other 
disasters.
    In this ever-evolving field, partnering with private industry and 
public institutions are critical to enhance law enforcement 
capabilities. DHS partnerships, like with Mississippi State 
University's Raspet Flight Research Laboratory, have contributed to 
multiple advancements in UAS applications.
    Drones have undeniably strengthened DHS operations by increasing 
efficiency, reducing manpower requirements, and saving American lives. 
As technology continues to evolve, it is imperative that DHS further 
develop and refine these capabilities. I believe that Congress has a 
responsibility to ensure that DHS, along with its public and private 
partners, has the necessary resources to advance this critical 
technology in support of national security and public safety. I hope 
this hearing provides us with some concrete ideas on which this body 
can act in furthering this important mission on behalf of our fellow 
citizens.
    Before I turn it over to the Ranking Member of the Border Security 
and Enforcement Subcommittee, Mr./Rep. Correa, I would like to take a 
moment to thank Supervisory Special Agent Larry Martino for his 
outstanding contributions to the committee. Over the past 18 months, 
Agent Martino has been detailed to the Border Security and Enforcement 
Subcommittee, where he has provided invaluable expertise and guidance 
on critical border security matters. His deep knowledge, dedication, 
and commitment to strengthening our Nation's security have been 
instrumental in shaping key policy discussions and legislative 
initiatives. Next week, Agent Martino will return to his home agency, 
Homeland Security Investigations, where he will continue to play a 
vital role in combating transnational crime, enforcing immigration 
laws, and protecting our national security. I extend the committee's 
sincere gratitude for his service in safeguarding our great country.

    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Chairman Guest and Chairman Strong, 
for holding this most important hearing today. I want to thank 
our guests today as well. Thank you very much.
    Important hearing today on the use of unmanned aircraft 
systems across DHS. Today we're going to hear about how drones 
are used by the Department of Homeland Security to strengthen 
disaster response, border security, and keep Americans safe. 
It's important to hear from our partners in the field where the 
rubber meets the road, as well as those developing these 
critical technologies, about what we in Congress can do to 
support Federal, State, and local partners in this effort. I 
believe we also need to continue to support research in new and 
emerging technologies, like drones.
    With the terrible environmental disasters happening almost 
on a daily basis across the country, we must support our front-
line partners with the tools that you need to do your jobs and 
keep our community safe. I must say that I am concerned to see 
the administration moving to dismantle FEMA and to reduce the 
resources available for disaster response.
    Our partners in the field are facing greater challenges in 
delivering aid to those who need it the most in a timely basis. 
This hearing is timely as we continue to explore how we can 
better equip those in the front lines, especially as our 
resources continue to shrink under this administration.
    From the California wildfires to hurricanes and flooding in 
Florida and North Carolina, drones can help front-line 
personnel respond quickly and effectively to these situations. 
For example, drones can help first responders find the quickest 
route to respond to a disaster and assist with search-and-
rescue missions. As we saw during the terrible fires in 
Pasadena--at Pasadena earlier this year, they can also provide 
first responders and the public with real-time information. 
Once disasters are contained, they can also help with damage 
assessment in identifying safe routes.
    Technologies such as drones not only help with disaster 
response, but they also keep our communities safe, and drones 
can enhance public safety by providing real-time situation 
awareness. They can also help law enforcement monitor and 
respond to illicit activities at the border, such as drug 
trafficking. As we can see, drones also have an important role 
in enhancing public safety. This is why I introduced the 
bipartisan legislation earlier this year, the DRONE Act of 
2025, which would allow law enforcement to use Federal grants 
to purchase and operate drones.
    In my discussions with law enforcement and emergency 
responders, it is clear that drones play a big and bigger role 
in saving lives. But as useful as the drones for law 
enforcement and first responders may be, we also need to 
prepare for those that use them against us. As Ranking Member 
of the Border Security and Enforcement Subcommittee, I've heard 
that cartels will use drones to carry drugs across the border 
and surveil men and women of DHS at the front lines.
    Last year, the top general for U.S. Northern Command 
testified in the Senate Armed Services Committee that drone 
incursions along our Southern Border likely exceed 1,000 per 
month. The threats posed by drones at our border increase the 
need to understand how DHS uses drones and is it set up 
sufficiently well to encounter and stop these drones. I hope 
the committee will continue to do its good work so that our 
front-line officers can continue to be equipped to do the best 
job that they can protecting American citizens.
    It's also vital that the Federal Government collaborate 
with research centers, the private sector, with venture 
capitalists to develop and adopt cost-effective innovative 
technologies such as drones and counter-drone systems to help 
confront the challenges that are essentially on top of us now.
    We in Congress must continue to work together to create 
constructive opportunities for DHS, our State and local 
partners, to utilize new technologies to effectively respond to 
disasters, to save lives, to protect national security, to help 
trade, travel, and keep our community safe.
    I look forward to this hearing today, look forward to 
taking notes from our witnesses about the recommendations you 
all may have regarding drones, countering drones, and 
protecting American lives.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With that, I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Correa follows:]
    
               Statement of Ranking Member J. Luis Correa
               
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Today we'll hear about how Unmanned Aircraft Systems, specifically 
drones, are used by the Department of Homeland Security to strengthen 
disaster response, border security, and the safety of Americans. It is 
important to hear from our partners in the field, as well as those 
developing these critical technologies, about what we can do in 
Congress to support our Federal, State, and local partners. We also 
need to continue to support research in new and emerging technologies, 
like drones.
    Particularly with the terrible environmental disasters devastating 
communities across the country in recent years, we must support our 
front-line partners with the tools needed to do their jobs and keep our 
communities safe. However, I am concerned to see the administration 
move to dismantle FEMA, and reduce the resources available for disaster 
response. Our partners in the field are facing greater challenges in 
delivering aid to those who need it most.
    This hearing is timely as we continue to explore how we can better 
equip those on the front lines, especially as their resources shrink 
under the Trump administration. From the California wildfires to 
hurricanes and flooding in Florida and North Carolina, environmental 
disasters regularly create life-and-death situations.
    Drones can help front-line personnel respond quickly and 
effectively to these situations. For example, drones can help first 
responders find the quickest route to respond to a disaster and assist 
with search-and-rescue operations. As we saw during the terrible fire 
in Pasadena earlier this year, they can also provide first responders 
and the public with information in real time.
    Once the disaster is contained, they can also help with damage 
assessments and identifying safe routes. Technologies such as drones 
not only help with disaster response, but they also keep our 
communities safe. Drones can enhance public safety by providing real-
time situational awareness to law enforcement during active crimes or 
hazardous material spills. They can also help law enforcement monitor 
and respond to illegal activities at the border such as drug 
trafficking.
    As we can see, drones have an important role in enhancing public 
safety. This is why I introduced bipartisan legislation earlier this 
year--the Directing Resources for Officers Navigating Emergencies 
(DRONE) Act of 2025, which would allow law enforcement to use Federal 
grants to purchase and operate drones.
    In my discussions with law enforcement and emergency responders, 
it's clear that drones play a big part in saving lives. And will 
continue to play an ever-growing role in protecting our communities and 
responding to emergencies. By continuing to unlock their potential, we 
can save taxpayers millions and make our streets safer. It's a win-win. 
But as useful as drones are for law enforcement and first responders, 
we also need to be prepared for adversaries to use them against us.
    As Ranking Member of the Border Security and Enforcement 
Subcommittee, I've heard that cartels will use drones to carry drugs 
across the border and surveil the men and women of DHS on the front 
lines. Last year, the top general for U.S. Northern Command testified 
to the Senate Armed Services Committee that drone incursions along the 
Southern Border likely exceed 1,000 a month.
    The threats posed by drones at our border increase the need to 
understand how DHS uses drones and also how they are set up to counter 
the drones. I hope the committee will continue its good work on that 
front in the future. It's also vital that the Federal Government 
collaborate with research centers, the private sector, and venture 
capital to develop and adopt cost-effective and innovative technologies 
such as drones and counter-drone systems to help confront the 
challenges we face.
    We in Congress must continue to work together to create 
opportunities for DHS, and our State and local partners to utilize new 
technologies to effectively respond to disasters, save lives protect 
national security, facilitate trade and travel, and keep our 
communities safe.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about the 
recommendations they have regarding drones and counter-drone technology 
which can help secure our border and make our communities safer.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Ranking Member Correa.
    I now recognize the Chairman for the Subcommittee on 
Emergency Management and Technology, the gentleman from 
Alabama, Mr. Strong, for his opening statement.
    Mr. Strong. Good afternoon. Thank you, my friend, Chairman 
Michael Guest of Mississippi, for leading this important 
discussion, and Ranking Member Correa, and to all Members for 
being here today. I want to also thank our witnesses for their 
time, for sharing their expertise.
    Let me start by shining a light on my district, Alabama's 
Fifth, which I'm proud to say is well-represented on this panel 
today. As many of you know, Huntsville, Alabama, is renowned 
for its leadership in cutting-edge research and development. As 
home to Redstone Arsenal, the Nation's second-largest research 
park and several universities, Huntsville is a thriving hub for 
American innovation. I'm glad we have such an excellent panel 
here, and look forward to our discussion.
    Today we're here to explore how our Homeland Security 
partners use unmanned aircraft systems, or UAS, and how this 
technology can be a force multiplier for law enforcement, first 
responders, CBP, and the DHS mission set. Emerging technologies 
like UAS are reshaping the way we respond to disasters. Drones 
enable the protection of emergency management personnel in 
high-risk situations, while at the same time increasing the 
effectiveness of the work that they do.
    For example, small UAS with sophisticated cameras assist in 
monitoring critical infrastructure and assessing damage. When 
equipped with AI, these drones can spot potential flood zones 
or identify hot spots and wildfires. The data collected from 
this--these flights equip first responders with the tools to 
better allocate manpower, vehicles, and victim assistance.
    Larger drones with heavier payload capacity and longer 
flight times are also critical tools in disaster management. 
Rapid deployment and agility enable UAS to access hazardous 
areas that first responders cannot reach, which proves 
especially useful when trying to locate survivors or deliver 
supplies.
    In response to Hurricane Helene, the Ashville Police 
Department deployed drones for search and rescue, damage 
assessment, and overwatch for FEMA. Additionally, prepositioned 
UAS in western Florida quickly deployed in response to 
Hurricane Milton to track the storms and provide real-time data 
to law enforcement and first responders. Two hundred flight 
hours across 16 agencies were recorded, representing over 1,000 
flights flown in the first days following the storm. This 
helped to create a common operating picture that enabled first 
responders to allocate much-needed resources. This technology 
helped save countless lives in the wake of these moments of the 
storm.
    DHS has also utilized UAS to safeguard our borders. They 
leverage this technology to protect our homeland from illegal 
crossings and combat illicit activities, such as human and drug 
smuggling. CBP faces tremendous challenges from dangerous 
environments and a broadening mission set to adversaries that 
continue to evolve their tactics and capabilities. Drone 
technology decreases the workload on CBP agents and provided 
critical situation awareness to paint a comprehensive picture 
of the threats impacting our border.
    Additionally, DHS's Science and Technology Directorate 
leads Government-wide UAS research to counter threats and 
improve response in recovery operations for disasters. For 
example, S&T's Air Domain Awareness program detects, tracks, 
and identifies aircraft to prevent and respond to criminal 
activities along the border. Also, S&T's National Urban 
Security Technology Laboratory manages the SAVER program. This 
initiative helps emergency responders and law enforcement make 
informed, cost-effective equipment purchases that meets 
national standards.
    On top of these programs, S&T is leading critical 
development in counter-UAS ensuring operational components can 
defend against nefarious actors. This work is supported by 
universities and industry partners, reflecting a collaborative 
public-private partnership across all sectors.
    As the use of these technologies become more commonplace, 
these partnerships are critical so that UAS can be safely 
utilized to their fullest potential. I look forward to today's 
conversation learning more about great work that our witnesses 
are doing in this space.
    I'd also like to mention and recognize the CEO of COLSA 
Corporation, Francisco Collazo, who is not with us today. He's 
back home at the headquarters in Huntsville, Alabama. He's been 
a friend of mine for many years, and I know that this 
organization does a phenomenal job.
    I also want to mention the University of Alabama 
Huntsville. I live within 5 minutes of the University of 
Alabama in Huntsville, and I can tell you today UAH is a 
critical part to national security; with our average ACT test 
score of a 28.5, a little less than 10,000 students, where 80 
percent of them choose never to leave after graduation to work 
in national security.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. It's an honor to be here, and I 
want to thank our guests for joining us.
    [The statement of Chairman Strong follows:]
    
                 Statement of Honorable Dale W. Strong
                 
    Good afternoon.
    Thank you to my friend, Chairman Guest, for leading this important 
discussion and to all the Members for being here today.
    I want to also thank our witnesses for their time and for sharing 
their expertise.
    Let me start by shining a light on my district, Alabama's 5th, 
which I'm proud to say is well-represented on this panel today.
    As many of you know, Huntsville, Alabama is renowned for its 
leadership in cutting-edge research and development.
    As home to Redstone Arsenal, the Nation's second-largest research 
park, and several universities including UAH, Huntsville is a thriving 
hub for American innovation.
    I am glad we have such an excellent panel here and look forward to 
our discussion.
    Today we're here to explore how our homeland security partners use 
Unmanned Aircraft Systems, or UAS, and how this technology can be a 
force multiplier for law enforcement, first responders, CBP, and the 
DHS mission set.
    Emerging technologies like UAS are reshaping the way we respond to 
disasters.
    Drones enable visibility and capability--allowing for the 
protection of emergency management personnel in high-risk situations, 
while at the same time increasing the effectiveness of the work they 
do.
    For example--small UAS with sophisticated cameras assist in 
monitoring critical infrastructure and assessing damage.
    When equipped with AI, these drones can spot potential flood zones 
or identify hot spots in wildfires.
    The data collected from these flights equips first responders with 
the tools to better allocate manpower, vehicles, and victim assistance.
    Larger drones with heavier payload capacity and longer flight times 
are also critical tools in disaster management.
    Rapid deployment and agility enable UAS to access hazardous areas 
that first responders cannot reach, which proves especially useful when 
trying to locate survivors or deliver supplies.
    In response to Hurricane Helene, the Asheville Police Department 
deployed drones for search and rescue, damage assessment, and overwatch 
for FEMA.
    Additionally, pre-positioned UAS in western Florida were quickly 
deployed in response to Hurricane Milton to track the storm and provide 
real-time data to law enforcement and first responders.
    Two hundred flight hours across 16 agencies were recorded, 
representing over 1,000 flights flown in the first days following the 
storm.
    This helped to create a common operating picture that enabled first 
responders to allocate much-needed resources.
    This technology has helped save countless lives in the wake of 
these storms.
    DHS also utilizes UAS to safeguard our borders. They can leverage 
this technology to protect our homeland from illegal crossings and 
combat illicit activities such as human and drug smuggling.
    The CBP faces tremendous challenges, from dangerous environments 
and a broadening mission set to adversaries that continue to evolve 
their tactics and capabilities.
    Drone technology decreases the workload on CBP agents and provides 
critical situational awareness to paint a comprehensive picture of the 
threats impacting our border.
    In addition to the use of drones to support operational efforts, 
DHS's Science and Technology Directorate also leads Government-wide UAS 
research to counter threats and improve response and recovery 
operations for disasters.
    For example, S&T's Air Domain Awareness program detects, tracks, 
and identifies aircraft to prevent and respond to criminal activities 
along the border.
    Also, S&T's National Urban Security Technology Laboratory manages 
the SAVER program.
    This initiative helps emergency responders and law enforcement make 
informed, cost-effective equipment purchases that meet national 
standards.
    On top of these programs, S&T is leading critical developments in 
counter-UAS, ensuring operational components can defend against 
nefarious actors.
    This work is supported by universities and industry partners, 
reflecting a collaborative public-private partnership across all 
sectors.
    As the use of these technologies becomes more commonplace, 
collaboration is critical so that these devices can be safely operated 
in a commercial environment and utilized to their full potential.
    I look forward to today's conversation and learning more about the 
great work our witnesses are doing in this space.
    Again, thank you all for being here today and I yield back.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Chairman Strong.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member for the Subcommittee on 
Emergency Management and Technology, the gentleman from New 
York, Mr. Kennedy, for his opening statement.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Chairman, and also thanks to my 
fellow Ranking Members.
    Good afternoon. Thank you to each and every one of you for 
being here today to discuss the use of unmanned aerial systems 
by the Department of Homeland Security. However, I want to 
begin by discussing the alarming remarks and actions by the 
White House and the Department of Homeland Security Secretary 
Noem.
    Just last week, Secretary Noem stated on national 
television that ``we are going to eliminate FEMA''. This, 
disturbingly, received immediate praise from President Trump.
    Reportedly, Secretary Noem is active discuss--is in active 
discussions with FEMA leadership about dismantling the agency 
by October 1, a reckless move that could leave millions of 
Americans vulnerable to the impacts of natural disasters, like 
hurricanes, tornadoes, winter storms, wildfires, and floods, 
without any Federal assistance.
    It's deeply concerning that today's hearing isn't solely 
focused on holding this administration accountable for its 
plans to dismantle the only Federal agency solely dedicated to 
assisting Americans in the aftermath of disasters. I encourage 
my Republican colleagues, many of whom have had disasters in 
their districts, to take action to prevent this administration 
from doing irreparable harm to the American people by 
dismantling FEMA.
    While today's hearing is about drones, the unfortunate 
reality is that the Trump White House continues to create 
obstacles that jeopardize the very programs that we're 
discussing.
    The Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology 
Directorate has played a crucial role in integrating unmanned 
aerial systems in the national security and emergency response 
efforts. However, the reckless mass firings by Elon Musk and 
President Trump have hindered S&T's work force in its capacity 
to innovate and lead. At the same time, the administration's 
freeze on Federal grants, which is being carried out in 
violation of court orders, has left communities and first 
responders unable to secure the vital funding needed for 
acquiring and deploying drone technology.
    Grant funding from the Department of Homeland Security has 
been instrumental in funding local law enforcement seeking to 
adopt drone technology. However, under Republican House 
leadership, we've seen a 10 percent reduction in DHS grant 
programs in fiscal year 2024, followed by similarly inadequate 
funding levels in fiscal year 2025. This has significantly 
hampered local agencies' ability to acquire critical technology 
like drones.
    This is especially impactful for western New Yorkers, the 
people I represent, where emergency services, law enforcement, 
fire departments, and other agencies rely on Federal grant 
funding to deploy drone technologies and disaster response.
    I can name many different examples of this, but first 
responders are oftentimes utilizing drone technology in 
critical missions in my community. For instance, late last 
year, Buffalo police used drones during extremely cold 
temperatures to locate and rescue a man who had become 
disoriented in the snow, bringing him to safety. Without 
adequate funding, local agencies may be unable to respond to 
future emergencies as effectively as they otherwise could.
    Ensuring our local agencies are equipped and funded is not 
just a matter of policy, but a commitment to the safety and 
resilience of our communities. I look forward to discussing 
today how we can promote responsible law enforcement use of 
drones to equip our first responders with the tools they need 
to protect and serve effectively.
    I thank you all for your testimony and your service, and 
look forward to hearing from you.
    With that, I yield back. Thank you, Chairman.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Kennedy follows:]
    
             Statement of Ranking Member Timothy M. Kennedy
             
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Just last week, Secretary Noem stated on national television that 
``We are going to eliminate FEMA.'' This, disturbingly, received 
immediate praise from President Trump.
    Reportedly, Secretary Noem is in active discussions with FEMA 
leadership about dismantling the agency by October 1--a reckless move 
that could leave millions of Americans vulnerable to the impacts of 
natural disasters like hurricanes, winter storms, wildfires, tornadoes, 
and floods--and without any Federal assistance.
    It is deeply concerning that today's hearing isn't solely focused 
on holding this administration accountable for its plans to dismantle 
the only Federal agency solely dedicated to assisting Americans in the 
aftermath of disasters. I encourage my Republican colleagues, many of 
whom have had disasters hit their districts, to take action to prevent 
this administration from doing irreparable harm to the American people 
by dismantling FEMA.
    While today's hearing is about drones, the unfortunate reality is 
that the Trump White House continues to create obstacles that 
jeopardize the very programs we are discussing. The Department of 
Homeland Security's Science and Technology Directorate (S&T) has played 
a crucial role in integrating unmanned aerial systems into national 
security and emergency response efforts. However, the reckless mass 
firings by Elon Musk and President Trump have hindered S&T's workforce 
and its capacity to innovate and lead.
    At the same time, the administration's freeze on Federal grants, 
which is being carried out in violation of court orders, has left 
communities and first responders unable to secure the vital funding 
needed for acquiring and deploying drone technology.
    Grant funding from the Department of Homeland Security has been 
instrumental in funding local law enforcement seeking to adopt drone 
technology. However, under Republican House leadership, we have seen a 
10 percent reduction in DHS grant programs in fiscal year 2024, 
followed by similarly inadequate funding levels in fiscal year 2025.
    This has significantly hampered local agencies' ability to acquire 
critical technologies like drones. This is especially impactful for 
western New Yorkers, where emergency services--law enforcement, fire 
departments, and other agencies--rely on Federal grant funding to 
deploy drone technologies in disaster response.
    First responders in my community rely on drones for critical 
missions. For instance, late last year, Buffalo Police used drones 
during extremely cold temperatures to locate and rescue a man who had 
become disoriented in the snow, bringing him to safety. Without 
adequate funding, local agencies may be unable to respond to future 
emergencies like this one as effectively as they could. Ensuring our 
local agencies are equipped and funded is not just a matter of policy 
but a commitment to the safety and resilience of our communities.
    I look forward to discussing today how we can promote responsible 
law enforcement use of drones to equip our first responders with the 
tools they need to protect and serve effectively.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Ranking Member Kennedy.
    Other Members of the committee are reminded opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
    
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
             
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Drones are invaluable tools for law enforcement and fire 
departments. They assist with aerial surveillance, damage assessments, 
search-and-rescue operations, and monitoring large-scale wildfires--
tasks once handled by crewed aircraft. DHS components like Customs and 
Border Protection, Homeland Security Investigations, Secret Service, 
the Science and Technology Directorate (S&T), and FEMA use drones for 
critical operations.
    In my home State of Mississippi, drones have played a vital role in 
assessing the damage caused by the devastating tornadoes that hit my 
district in 2023, which claimed the lives of at least 21 people.
    However, as we discuss the use of drones today, President Trump and 
Elon Musk are relentlessly attacking the very agencies working to 
secure the homeland.
    Just last week, Secretary Noem and other Trump-Musk administration 
officials discussed dismantling the one agency dedicated to serving 
Americans after a disaster: FEMA. Secretary Noem is proud of this 
misguided effort, saying ``we're going to eliminate FEMA.'' News 
outlets are reporting that FEMA may be abolished by October.
    The Trump administration's reckless push to eliminate FEMA is 
dangerous and a betrayal of Americans in need of support during the 
most vulnerable moments of their lives--when disasters strike. FEMA is 
not just an agency; it's the lifeline that provides critical aid to 
communities before, during, and after disasters.
    By attempting to dismantle FEMA, the administration is weakening 
the very infrastructure designed to keep Americans safe. With hurricane 
and tornado seasons just around the corner, this move will leave our 
communities even more vulnerable. Unfortunately, my colleagues across 
the aisle remain silent--complicit in this dangerous erosion of our 
homeland security.
    FEMA also administers vital homeland security grant programs that 
defend us against the very real threat of terrorism. Many of these 
grant programs have been unlawfully paused by the Trump administration. 
Grants also fund the use of drones by first responders in our 
communities. Yet these critical grant programs have been either gutted, 
put on hold, or slowed down by the Trump-Musk administration. Again, my 
Republican colleagues remain silent.
    Mr. Chairman, by failing to protect FEMA's programs that support 
each of our districts. The Majority should be bringing administration 
officials here to testify about their actions and plans and make sure 
they preserve FEMA and critical homeland security grants programs. 
Instead, committee Republicans have abdicated their oversight 
obligations and our Nation's homeland security will suffer as a result.

    Mr. Guest. I'm pleased to welcome our panel of witnesses. 
At this time I would ask our witnesses to please rise and to 
please raise your right hand. I will now issue the oath.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Guest. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative.
    Thank you, and please be seated.
    I would now like to briefly formally introduce our 
witnesses.
    The first witness is Mr. Bryan Farrell. Bryan is the 
interim director of the Mississippi State University's Raspet 
Flight Research Laboratory, which is one of the leading 
academic research centers dedicated to the advancement of 
aviation. Mr. Farrell previously led the university's 
international research partnership and professional development 
efforts at his international institution.
    Our second witness is Dr. Michael Ledbetter. Dr. Ledbetter 
is the executive vice president and chief operating officer at 
COLSA Corporation, where he oversees strategic operations. 
Previously, he served as senior vice president for COLSA's 
Cyber/Information Warfare and Data Science Program. Before 
joining COLSA, Dr. Ledbetter served for 28 years as a United 
States Marine officer.
    Our third witness is Mr. Jerry Hendrix. Mr. Hendrix is the 
director of the UAS program at the University of Alabama in 
Huntsville, leading all UAS research and testing support, both 
commercial, military, and Government customers. Mr. Hendrix has 
many years of experience in the aerospace industry.
    Our final witness is Chief Kevin Fetterman. Chief Fetterman 
currently serves as the division chief for the Orange County 
Fire Authority, where he leads fire, rescue, and other 
emergency services. Chief Fetterman is the emerging technology 
liaison for Orange County and all the--for Orange County and 
the all-hazard incident management team program manager. He has 
over 29 years of fire and emergency services experience.
    I would like to thank all our witnesses for being here 
today. The witnesses' full testimony will appear in the record. 
I would now recognize Mr. Farrell for 5 minutes to summarize 
his opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF  BRYAN FARRELL,  INTERIM DIRECTOR, 
        RASPET FLIGHT RESEARCH LABORATORY, MISSISSIPPI
        STATE UNIVERSITY

    Mr. Farrell. Thank you.
    Good day, Chairman Guest, Chairman Strong, Ranking Members 
Correa and Kennedy, and the honorable Members of the 
subcommittees. I want to thank you and your staff for welcoming 
me here today to talk about UAS as it pertains to the needs of 
the Department of Homeland Security and, more broadly, our 
domestic security and resiliency.
    My name is Bryan Farrell. I'm the interim director of the 
Raspet Flight Research Lab at Mississippi State University and 
the lead for Project JUSTICE. This program is housed within DHS 
S&T, under the Air, Land, and Ports of Entry Program. The 
primary mission is to serve the operational entities within DHS 
through research, development, testing, integration, and 
evaluation of UAS and related technologies.
    Raspet has a proud 75-year history in aerospace research, 
with a keen focus the last 15 years on the newest frontier of 
aviation, UAS. Raspet maintains a fleet of UAS and manned 
aircraft, including the largest UAS in academic use, the Navmar 
Teros. Raspet leverages MSU property and external partnerships 
to operate at a myriad of test locations, to include restricted 
air space as well as over 75,000 square miles of FAA-authorized 
air space.
    We are also the house of the ASSURE Center of Excellence 
for UAS for the FAA, where we work with 32 other universities 
and test sites to integrate UAS into the national air space 
system. Through our designations and expertise, we serve 
industry, Government partners to advance UAS technologies for 
their missions.
    In the spirit of today's hearing, I hope to provide 
insights not only into the benefits and use cases of UAS, but 
also an understanding of the considerations and efforts that 
support the integration of this technology. UAS are common in 
daily operations across industry and Government alike. These 
aircraft augment and enhance capabilities and provide 
perspectives that operational units may not always be able to 
access.
    Drones provide situational awareness paramount to 
individual safety and security, whether that be in the 
execution of high-risk law enforcement activity or in the 
aftermath of a disaster where life-saving operations are under 
way. DHS component missions require integration of different 
UAS platforms, sensors, and operational parameters.
    Even within a single DHS component such as CBP, you see a 
vast different usage of UAS types. For example, broad area 
border surveillance requires a platform capable of the 
necessary endurance and operational distance, while an agent 
engaged in tactical operations may need to carry a small UAS 
that can be deployed in confined environments.
    Beyond the UAS selected, the components also need to 
establish protocols and flight authorizations. They need to 
understand sensors and sensor availabilities for the platforms 
and how that data will be viewed, stored, and distributed. They 
need to make decisions based on the costs and maintenance of 
the aircraft, and all of these considerations exist within a 
policy backdrop and legal constraints about where the device is 
made and the critical components come from. These are just some 
of the variables that underpin how UAS get employed within the 
DHS enterprise.
    Why UAS get deployed comes down to efficiency and safety. 
Looking at the last 2 examples, traditional broad area 
surveillance requires expensive, crude aircraft, a network of 
sensors, or something like a satellite feed. These options can 
be expensive and can oftentimes be unreliable. A UAS, by 
contrast, efficiently integrates into ground operations at a 
lower initial and operational cost point, while potentially 
having greater endurance and a higher-quality data feed.
    The tactical community is a great example of enhanced 
safety. Portability and maneuverability are paramount when 
these teams are executing high risk of operations. A manned 
portable small UAS can be rapidly deployed to provide 
situational awareness crucial for informed decision making.
    Shifting gears from law enforcement to emergency 
management, this past hurricane season provided countless 
examples of UAS being utilized for response and recovery. 
Raspet's own operations supported Region 4 UAS/remote sensing 
coordinator and other stakeholders in leveraging our largest 
UAS, the Teros, for disaster response, where in the aftermath 
we broadcast live video and live tiled imagery to a myriad of 
stakeholders, including the White House. This facilitated 
faster response, faster recovery, and significantly improved 
the damage assessments.
    Raspet is quite fortunate to engage deeply in all aspects 
of UAS, including the technical and regulatory complexities 
required to operationalize. It provides us with a good vantage 
point to understand those pesky ``it depends'' scenarios that 
often arise around UAS.
    I look forward to engaging more deeply about our work at 
Mississippi State University and providing greater insights 
into the benefits of UAS for DHS and the needs associated with 
integrating this technology. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Farrell follows:]
    
                  Prepared Statement of Bryan Farrell
                  
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Good day Chairman Guest, Chairman Strong, Ranking Members Correa 
and Kennedy, and the honorable Members of the Subcommittee on Border 
Security and Enforcement and the Subcommittee on Emergency Management 
and Technology.
    I want to thank you and your staff for welcoming me here today to 
discuss UAS, or drone technology, as it pertains to needs for the 
Department of Homeland Security and more broadly our domestic security 
and resiliency.
    My name is Bryan Farrell, and I am the interim director for the 
Raspet Flight Research Laboratory at Mississippi State University. I am 
also the principal investigator for Project JUSTICE or the Joint 
Unmanned Systems Testing in a Collaborative Environment. Project 
JUSTICE is a program housed within DHS Science and Technology under the 
Air, Land, and Ports of Entry portfolio. The primary mission of JUSTICE 
is to serve the operational entities within DHS through research, 
development, testing, integration, and evaluation of UAS and related 
technologies. Mississippi State University is also the chair of the 
Federal Aviation Administration's Center of Excellence for UAS known as 
the Alliance for System Safety of UAS through Research Excellence, or 
ASSURE, where Raspet collaborates with 32 other universities and many 
UAS test sites to execute the research necessary for integration of UAS 
into the national air space system (NAS) as well as develop and deliver 
first responder UAS training. Raspet has a proud 75-year history in 
Aerospace research and development with keen focus these last 15 years 
on the newest frontier of aviation, UAS. Raspet maintains a fleet of 
UAS and manned aircraft including the largest UAS in academic use, the 
NASC Teros. Raspet leverages MSU property and external partnerships to 
operate at a myriad of test locations to include restricted air space 
and 75,000 square miles of COA air space. Through our designations and 
expertise, we serve industry and Government partners to advance UAS 
technologies for their mission.
    In the spirit of today's hearing titled ``Exploring the Use of 
Unmanned Aircraft Systems Across the DHS Enterprise'' I hope to be able 
to provide insights into not only the benefits and use-cases of UAS as 
a tool, but also an understanding of the considerations and efforts 
that support the integration of this technology. UAS have become a 
ubiquitous feature in daily operations across many industries and 
certainly within the DHS mission set. These aircraft augment and 
enhance capabilities and provide perspectives that operational units 
may not always be able to access. UAS also provide situational 
awareness paramount to individual safety and security, whether that be 
in the execution of a high-risk law enforcement activity or in the 
aftermath of a disaster where life-saving operations are under way.
    DHS being a complex organization, components will utilize drones in 
very different ways. The component's mission will require integration 
of different UAS platforms, sensors, and operational parameters. Even 
within a single DHS component such as Customs and Border Protection you 
could see vastly different UAS types and uses. As an example, a 
platform capable of the necessary endurance and operational distance 
required for broad area border surveillance in remote regions would not 
be a UAS platform beneficial for something like tactical operations 
where an agent may need to physically carry the UAS and deploy into 
confined environments. In addition to the UAS selected for the mission, 
the component may need to establish protocols or authorizations for 
integration of the aircraft into the national air space system, 
understand the types of sensors available for that platform and how the 
data will be viewed, stored, or distributed as well as make a decision 
based on the costs associated with procurement and maintenance of the 
aircraft versus other platforms or processes. All these considerations 
exist within a backdrop of policy and legal constraints around where 
the device, or critical components within the device, are manufactured.
    These are just some of the variables that underpin the conversation 
about how UAS get employed within the DHS enterprise. Why UAS get 
deployed comes down to efficiency and safety. Let us take the 2 
examples above to highlight where efficiencies and safety exist. 
Traditional broad area surveillance may require expensive manned 
aircraft operations, a network of sensors that are costly to deploy and 
potentially come with their own technical risk and challenges, or 
advanced geospatial solutions that are not always available. A UAS by 
contrast can integrate into the operational envelope of the agents on 
the ground at a lower initial and operational cost point while 
potentially having greater endurance and a higher-quality data feed. As 
an example of enhanced safety let's examine the needs of the tactical 
community where portability and maneuverability are paramount when 
executing things like high-risk warrants or attempting to bring 
peaceful resolution to hostage situations. A small UAS with the ability 
to be carried and deployed inside a structure to provide situational 
awareness is crucial for informed decision making.
    During this past hurricane season there were countless examples of 
UAS utilized for response and recovery efforts. In the Federal 
Emergency Management Agency's (FEMA) Region 4 where MSU and Raspet are 
located, we have worked with the Region 4 UAS/Remote Sensing 
Coordinator and other stakeholders to explore the usage and integration 
of large UAS for disaster response. Raspet's largest aircraft, the 
Teros, has the capacity to operate all day with distributed video and 
imagery to stakeholders. This was the first time that in the immediate 
aftermath of a large disaster, FEMA and other stakeholders were able to 
view live aerial imagery and communicate mission assignments with the 
aircraft in mid-flight. This live broadcast, facilitated by Project 
JUSTICE, was disseminated to an extensive network of stakeholders. We 
were notified that the White House was observing the live coverage of 
the damage, significantly expediting the damage assessment evaluation 
process. Beyond Raspet operations, first responders and other 
government agencies leveraged UAS for search and rescue, damage 
assessment, ingress/egress, critical infrastructure assessments, 
medical or supply delivery, and multiple other uses. It is in 
situations such as this that UAS showcase, very publicly, their value 
to the American people. The disaster response use-cases do not stop at 
natural disasters either. There are many examples where a first 
responder may want to leverage a UAS during situations that are man-
made. If we look at Chemical, Biological, Radiological, and Nuclear 
(CBRN)-type events, the advantage of a stand-off distance as well as 
complex sensors can minimize risk to the first responder while 
increasing situational awareness and provide decisions such as triage 
or evacuation planning. These examples of use-cases and technological 
innovations highlight only a few of the many uses of UAS within DHS.
    Raspet is quite fortunate to engage deeply in all aspects of UAS. 
The complexities associated with operationalizing the technology from 
both a regulatory and technical perspective provide us with a good 
vantage point to understand those pesky ``it depends'' scenarios that 
often arise around UAS. I look forward to engaging more deeply about 
our work at Mississippi State University and providing greater insights 
into the benefits of UAS for DHS and the needs associated with 
integration of this technology.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Farrell.
    I now recognize Dr. Ledbetter for 5 minutes to summarize 
his opening statement.

     STATEMENT  OF  MICHAEL LEDBETTER,  EXECUTIVE  VICE
      PRESIDENT AND CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, COLSA COR-
      PORATION

    Mr. Ledbetter. Good afternoon, Chairman Strong and Guest, 
Ranking Members Kennedy and Correa, and Members of the 
subcommittee. I'm Mike Ledbetter, chief operating officer for 
COLSA Corporation, a Huntsville-based--Huntsville, Alabama-
based engineering services firm and drone manufacturer.
    On behalf of our founder and chairman, 30-year Army 
veteran, Mr. Frank Collazo, I'm pleased to testify before your 
subcommittees today to discuss the importance of promoting 
innovation and security in the unmanned aircraft systems 
industry.
    COLSA began designing, developing, and manufacturing small 
UASes in 2019. Since then, we've manufactured and delivered 
over 1,400 UASes to the Army, developed software to swarm large 
numbers of UASes, and recently developed a line of 
commercially-available UASes.
    The concept for COLSA's original work was developed as 
lower-cost systems with increasing capability began flooding 
the commercial market. At the same time, the threat from swarms 
of UASes was becoming better understood. Some of these risks 
include saturating air defense systems, electronic warfare 
capabilities able to jam communications, disrupt radars, or 
spoof the location of enemy systems. COLSA is now a leading 
provider of low-cost, nondevelopmental, deployable group 1 and 
group 2 swarm UASes. These systems support unit training and 
operations and aid in testing counter UAS technologies. The 
program also provides soldiers with a low-workload, easy-to-use 
command-and-control system, enabling a single operator to 
control the swarm up to 100 UASes simultaneously.
    In 2023, COLSA invested in an internal research and 
development, IR&D program, to leverage our extensive domain 
expertise and talent pool to develop UAS designs that are 
better suited for commercial and civil agency applications, 
with an array of sensors and payloads to address several 
emergency response and border security use cases, such as 
delivering medical and humanitarian supplies, search and 
rescue, disaster assessment, and communications resiliency.
    One of the challenges the industry faces is balancing the 
availability of new UASes, components, and features that 
address genuine needs with the ability to obtain independent 
third-party compliance assessments. As the committee is aware, 
Federal Government agencies are restricted from procuring or 
operating UASes or UAS components manufactured by foreign 
entities. The dilemma, however, is that there are very few 
certifying bodies that can assess UASes and ensure they meet 
the strict security and compliance standards. Further, the 
organizations that do exist operate with resources too limited 
to maintain the pace with UAS innovation.
    For example, the Defense Innovation Unit, DIU, held a Blue 
UAS Refresh Challenge with the purpose of verifying the 
submitted systems compliance with the supply chain restrictions 
and cybersecurity best practices. There were 369 submissions 
that participated in this once-a-year refresh challenge. 
However, there were only enough resources to accept 23 
platforms and 14 other components. These rates do not match the 
pace that American drone manufacturers are producing new 
systems or developing advanced technologies that could support 
emergency management or border security use cases.
    The impact is that Federal and State agencies who had 
previously invested in fleets of UASes manufactured in 
restricted nations now have very few and increasingly expensive 
options for bringing their UAS operations into compliance. 
COLSA is well-positioned--well-structured to do business with 
these Government agencies at very low risk. However, there's a 
challenging process to be evaluated and certified for sales to 
either defense or civil agencies.
    For UASes to be able to reach their potential in the use 
cases mentioned, several technologies need to be developed and 
matured to include but not limited to beyond visual line of 
sight, BVLOS, operations that require long-range communications 
over a variety of networks with reliable data links for real-
time data transmission. Artificial intelligence and on-board 
processing must progress so that UASes can detect and avoid 
obstacles, self-determine route planning, and make mission-
driven decisions during BVLOS operations.
    Battery technology struggles to provide the necessary power 
for extended flight times. Currently, China still manufactures 
70 to 80 percent of the world's lithium-ion batteries. We thank 
Congress for securing the UAS technology supply chain as it is 
an essential step to shore up vulnerabilities from foreign 
exploitation.
    To maintain capacity and allow for greater competition in 
the market, we must open the aperture in approving compliant 
UAS technologies and platforms for both defense and civil 
agency use. This could be achieved through streamlined 
evaluations, additional certifying bodies, and automation.
    Finally, we hope you will support research and development 
in the technology areas that support BVLOS operations, improve 
domestic production capacity, and improve battery technology.
    I greatly appreciate the opportunity to address this 
committee and would happily take your questions. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Ledbetter follows:]
    
                     Statement of Michael Ledbetter
                     
                         Tuesday, April 1, 2025
                         
                              introduction
                              
    Good morning, Chairs Strong and Guest, Ranking Members Kennedy and 
Correa, and Members of the subcommittee. I am Mike Ledbetter, chief 
operating officer for COLSA Corporation, a Huntsville, AL-based 
engineering services firm and drone manufacturer. On behalf of our sole 
proprietor and 30-year Army veteran, Mr. Frank Collazo, I am pleased to 
testify before your subcommittees today to discuss the importance of 
promoting innovation and security in the unmanned aircraft systems 
(UAS) industry. COLSA began designing, developing, and manufacturing 
small UAS in 2019 was awarded an Other Transaction Authority (OTA) 
through the Vertical Lift Consortium (VLC) of the Aviation & Missile 
Technology Consortium (AMTC). Since then, we have manufactured and 
delivered over 1,400 UAS to the Army, developed software to swarm large 
numbers of UAS, and recently developed a line of commercially-available 
UAS.

                   lessons from assessing the threat
                   
    The concept for COLSA's original OTA was developed as lower-cost 
systems with increasing capability began flooding the commercial 
market. At the same time, the threat from swarms of UAS was becoming 
better understood. Some of these risks include:
   Saturating air defense systems causing the use of expensive 
        interceptor missiles on inexpensive drones,
   Coordinated attacks at multiple sensitive sites 
        simultaneously,
   Distributed and redundant operations that can withstand 
        losses of individual drones without disruption of the attack 
        mission,
   Electronic warfare capabilities, able to jam communications, 
        disrupt radars, or spoof the location of enemy systems.
    Following the successful completion of the OTA, COLSA was awarded a 
contract that transitioned into a Program of Record pathway. Through 
these contracts, COLSA has designed and developed highly-reliable and -
resilient UAS, and manufactured thousands of units currently deployed 
worldwide. We also developed software to coordinate UAS swarming. COLSA 
is now a leading provider of low-cost, non-developmental, deployable 
Group 1 and Group 2 Swarm UAS. As the Prime contractor, the primary 
objective of drone program is to provide realistic responses to 
emerging battlespace threats from UAS by rapidly designing, 
manufacturing, producing, and delivering representative threat 
capabilities. These systems support unit training and operations at 
Combat Training Centers (CTCs) and aid in testing Counter-UAS (C-UAS) 
technologies at Army Test and Evaluation Command (ATEC) ranges. The 
program also provides soldiers with a low workload, easy-to-use 
command-and-control system, enabling a single operator to control a 
swarm of up to 100 UAS simultaneously. This capability significantly 
reduces personnel workload, acts as a force multiplier for UAS 
operations, and enhances coverage and persistence (time-over-target).
    In 2023, COLSA invested in an Internal Research and Development 
(IR&D) program to leverage our extensive domain expertise and talent 
pool to develop UAS designs that are better suited for commercial and 
civil agency applications such as disaster response, search and rescue, 
law enforcement and security, surveillance, infrastructure inspection, 
precision agriculture, surveying and mapping, utility and 
transportation monitoring, insurance assessments, and construction. We 
are now positioning our systems and services for commercial sales and 
for contracts with civil agencies in addition to our continued support 
of Department of Defense (DoD) clients.
    In fact, we have designed our commercial systems to address a 
number of emergency response and border security use cases such as:
   Delivering Medical and Humanitarian Supplies.--UAS are able 
        access difficult terrain and dangerous areas with greater speed 
        and less risk to first responders.
   Search and Rescue.--Our systems can carry advanced thermal 
        sensors to find missing people, fugitives in hiding, or illegal 
        migrants in low-visibility conditions.
   Disaster Assessment.--UAS can carry LiDAR sensors to derive 
        high-resolution 3D mapping of the environment following natural 
        disasters.
   Communications Resiliency.--UAS can carry equipment to 
        create temporary mobile networks when infrastructure is 
        damaged.
   Ports of Entry Security.--Swarms of UAS using AI can patrol 
        and react to threats at land, air, and maritime ports.
   Nighttime Operations.--UAS can deploy high-output lighting 
        to illuminate nighttime rescue operations from overhead.
        
                  innovation is outpacing legislation
                  
    One of the challenges the industry faces is balancing the 
availability of new UAS, components, and features that address genuine 
needs with the ability to obtain independent third-party compliance 
assessments. As the committee is aware, Federal Government agencies are 
restricted from procuring or operating UAS or UAS components 
manufactured by covered foreign entities. The dilemma however is that 
there are very few certifying bodies that can assess UAS and ensure 
they meet the strict security and compliance standards, including those 
outlined in the National Defense Authorization Acts (NDAA) and American 
Security Drone Act (ASDA). Further, the organizations that do exist 
operate with resources too limited to maintain pace with UAS 
innovation.
    In August 2024, the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU) held a Blue UAS 
Refresh Challenge with the purpose of verifying the submitted systems 
compliance with the supply chain restrictions and cybersecurity best 
practices. There were 369 submissions to participate in this once-a-
year Refresh Challenge but only enough resources to accept 23 platforms 
and 14 other components (DIU Updates Blue UAS List, Framework With 23 
Drones & 14 UAS, February 18, 2025). The Association for Uncrewed 
Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) launched the Green UAS program in 
2023 to address non-Department of Defense (DoD) needs. However, in 2 
years there have only been 7 platforms cleared for Green UAS 
certification (IAW the AUVSI website, 24 March 2025). These rates do 
not match the pace that American drone manufacturers are producing new 
systems or developing advanced technologies that could support 
emergency management or border security use cases. The U.S. Customs and 
Border Protection, law enforcement agencies, and State and Federal 
emergency management agencies are all examples that would benefit from 
reliable solutions in these areas.
    The impact is that Federal and State agencies who had previously 
invested in fleets of UAS manufactured in restricted nations now have 
very few and increasingly expensive options for bringing their UAS 
operations into compliance. COLSA and other companies like ours are 
well-structured to do business with these Government agencies. A 
company of our size with a successful track record in Federal contracts 
makes the support to these agencies low risk. However, there is a 
challenging process to be evaluated and certified for sales to either 
defense or civil agencies.

                    evolution of industry technology
                    
    In the coming years, major areas of technological enhancement will 
certainly focus on the concept of empowering autonomous mission 
execution. For UAS to be able to reach their potential to seek injured 
persons after a natural disaster, for example, technologies that 
support Beyond Visual Line of Sight (BVLOS) operations must mature. 
BVLOS requires long-range communication links to maintain control of 
the UAS over extended distances, potentially using cellular networks, 
satellite links, or high-frequency radio signals. Reliable data links 
are necessary for real-time data transmission, including video feeds, 
sensor data, and control commands to the ground station.
    BVLOS relies on autonomous navigation capabilities, allowing drones 
to follow pre-programmed routes or respond to real-time commands 
without constant human oversight. To accomplish this, resilient Global 
Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) or alternative navigation methods, 
resistant to jamming, are crucial for accurate positioning and 
tracking.
    Finally, Artificial Intelligence and on-board processing must 
progress so that UAS can detect and avoid obstacles, self-determine 
route planning, and make mission-driven decisions during BVLOS 
operations.
    Battery technology has come a long way, but this area must also 
evolve. Current battery technology struggles to provide the necessary 
power for extended flight times without being excessively heavy. 
Research into new battery chemistries and materials is crucial to 
increasing the amount of energy that can be stored in a given volume 
and weight. Every ounce of weight affects flight time. More 
sophisticated sensors are likely to increase the overall power draw, 
too. China still manufactures 70-80 percent of the world's lithium-ion 
batteries. Developing faster recharging systems and batteries that 
maintain optimal performance across a wider temperature range are also 
important areas of improvement in battery technology.

                               conclusion
                               
    We thank Congress for securing the UAS technology supply chain 
through the ASDA and other NDAA provisions. We believe it is an 
essential step to shore up vulnerabilities from foreign exploitation. 
We also acknowledge the work of DIU and AUVSI to create certification 
pathways by vetting UAS platforms and technologies. These actions 
enable agency confidence when procuring systems and enhance the 
domestic UAS and component manufacturing base.
    To maintain capacity and allow for greater competition in the 
market, we must open the aperture in approving compliant UAS 
technologies and platforms for both defense and civil agency use. This 
could be achieved through streamlined evaluations, additional 
certifying bodies, and automation.
    Finally, we hope you will support research and development in the 
technology areas that support BVLOS operations, improve domestic 
production capacity, and improve battery technology.
    I greatly appreciate the opportunity to address this committee and 
would be happy to take questions.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Dr. Ledbetter.
    I now recognize Mr. Hendrix for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF JERRY H. HENDRIX, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,
       ROTORCRAFT  SYSTEMS  ENGINEERING  AND  SIMULATION
       CENTER, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA IN HUNTSVILLE

    Mr. Hendrix. Good afternoon, Chairman Guest and Strong and 
Ranking Members Correa and Kennedy and the subcommittees. On 
behalf of myself, Jerry Hendrix, and our 130 Center employees, 
all of who are U.S. citizens and are cleared, the University of 
Alabama brings you greetings from Alabama.
    Thank you for inviting us up today to testify. Thank you 
for you and your staff's service to the American people. We 
really appreciate that.
    UAH ranks sixth in federally funding in aeronautical and 
aerospace research. Our center specializes in autonomous 
research focusing on unmanned aircraft systems and counter-
unmanned aircraft systems.
    Our disaster response research has been recognized 
nationally by the Commercial Drone Alliance in testimony before 
Congress in 2023. UAH's research with exercises across natural 
and human-made disasters was identified as one of the top 8 UAS 
programs to bring benefit to the American people.
    Over the past 20 years, I've been involved in over 4,000 
development operations, training, and policy development 
programs, and separate incidents in testing, exercise, and 
disaster response. Some of our Center's research capabilities 
includes UAS use in disaster exercises, more operations and 
real disasters, world-wide unmanned aircraft systems threat 
analysis, development of unmanned aircraft systems as threat 
replicas and also role play, and development of unmanned 
aircraft systems in use by the DOD. Our center also supports 
FAA UAS research and trains DOJ agents in UAS use.
    Drone technology is advancing and evolving and offers great 
benefit to the DHS enterprise. We need 3 things: DHS-focused 
innovations, clear and controllable air space, and special 
provisions for training exercise and operations.
    UAH research has resulted in many operations. Here's just a 
few.
    Of concern, operational disciplines across the UAS domain, 
especially when it comes to operational procedures compliance 
and controlling the operational environment for unwanted UAS 
operators. Some responders noted to us that the air responses 
are really the ``Wild West.''
    Consistent operation procedures with checklists, 
checklists, and even more checklists must be used for any safe 
operation and response. The training and credentialing of our 
operators to a standard set of minimal operation proficiency 
standards is a must. Research, training, and exercises in 
operations are overburdened by regulations and processes 
imposed by multiple agents. We must be able to research and 
train as we respond and conduct missions.
    Responders and agents must be able to protect our own 
assets and our transportation infrastructure from unwanted 
sometimes nefarious UAS incursions. Therefore, counter UAS 
systems must be tested and validated against certified threats 
by independent agents, and the surrounding environment is 
supposed to be characterized for possible impacts.
    Today most UAS systems are becoming just too expensive. 
Introducing new technologies and innovations are needed. 
Regulatory restrictions, process, and documentation cannot 
force unnecessary technological constraints that drive cost.
    New technology for controlling the air space via the 
automated Air Boss, use of autonomy, swarming artificial 
intelligence/machine learning, beyond visual line-of-sight 
operations, and technologies offer the ability to respond more 
rapidly and effectively.
    Research is needed to incorporate these 2 technologies and 
must be adjusted to allow safe introduction. Such technology 
insertion research could be part of a DHS innovation program to 
identify novel UAS technology that is simple, low cost, highly 
productive to mission needs, and rapidly reconfigurable to 
adjust to the mission as it adjusts. The results would be a DHS 
meeting need instead of UAS that is being made and manufactured 
in America.
    We should allow a realistic use of national air space in 
the location of UAS and test UAS ranges like, for example, at 
the Huntsville International Airport with appropriate waivers.
    Additionally, cooperative threat analysis across multiple 
agents is needed. For the border's UAS open-source threat 
analysis that we just ran shows the following: Cartels are 
using UAS for surveillance; fiber optic control UAS are at the 
border; drones dropping bombs and incendiary devices are also 
there. This capability came from the Ukraine-Russian war and is 
now available to be purchased on-line making it easily 
available. We have seen multiple drone carriers as well from 
manned aircraft and morphing structures.
    In conclusion, support is needed for more effective and 
efficient responses. I ask for the committee's assistance in 
allowing DHS enterprise more leeway and freedom to research, 
test, and conduct exercises. Changing regulations for this 
support and allocating more resources for more research in 
supporting technology will allow a more effective, efficient, 
and real-world life response. We need to train and exercise as 
we operate.
    We need the innovation program that would generate UAS 
technology specified by DHS that is DHS-focused, simply used, 
low cost, reconfigurable, and highly developed to mission 
needs.
    Thank you for your attention and consideration. I look 
forward to continuing discussion, and I want to assure that UAH 
will continue to support and research to protect our citizenry, 
assist our soldiers and agents, get disaster victims on the 
road to recovery faster, and save lives.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hendrix follows:]
    
                 Prepared Statement of Jerry H. Hendrix
                 
                             April 1, 2025
                             
                              introduction
                              
    Good morning Chairmen Guest and Strong and the Ranking Members and 
Members of the Border Security and Enforcement and Emergency Management 
and Technology Subcommittees. On behalf of myself, our 130 center 
employees who are all cleared and U.S. Citizens, and the University of 
Alabama in Huntsville, I bring you greeting from Alabama. Thank you for 
inviting me to testify today April 1, 2025 on ``Exploring the Use of 
Unmanned Aircraft Systems Across the DHS Enterprise''.
    My name is Jerry Hendrix and I serve as the executive director of 
one of our 17 University research centers focused on performing 
autonomous aerospace research at the University of Alabama in 
Huntsville (UAH). Our center is part of a tier 1 research university 
that ranks 6th in Federal investment in aeronautical and aerospace 
engineering research. The center specializes in autonomous research 
focusing on uncrewed systems and counter-uncrewed systems. Our unmanned 
aircraft system (UAS) disaster research has been recognized nationally 
by the Commercial Drone Alliance in testimony to the House Space, 
Science, and Technology Committee in 2023. UAH's research was specified 
as the one of the top 8 UAS programs to ``bring benefit to the American 
People.'' That research was focused on ``UAS Use in Natural and Human 
Disasters''.
    Over the past 20 years, I have been involved in UAS development, 
operations, training, and policy development. I have been involved in 
over 4,000 separate UAS operations in testing, exercises, and disaster 
responses working across several academic institutions and Government 
agencies. While at Texas A&M University, I served as the Air Wing 1 
Commander for the State of Texas and the Federal Emergency Management 
Agency (FEMA) Texas Task Force 1 for disaster response while also 
serving as the executive director of the Texas Federal Aviation 
Administration (FAA)-designated UAS Test Site. While at UAH, I recently 
completed my term as president of Huntsville's Pathfinder Chapter of 
the Association of Uncrewed Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI) and 
led our UAS research at UAH. That research includes UAS use in 
disasters research and exercises, deployment of UAS to real border 
operations and real disasters, uncrewed threat analyses, development of 
uncrewed systems as threat replicas, and development of uncrewed 
systems used by the DOD. Our center has supported the Department of 
Homeland Security (DHS) in evaluating and using UAS as a viable 
technology and evaluations of counter-insurgency systems. The 
university holds a Cooperative Research Agreement with NOAA for UAS use 
in disasters. A majority of our center's staff are currently FEMA-
trained for disaster response.

               an overview of research/operations results
               
    Applied research focused on the DHS domains has resulted in many 
observations documented within this testimonial statement. The broad 
base of our experience researching and operating UAS is with FEMA, DHS 
Science and Technology, CBP, and in some cases supporting critical 
infrastructure protection. In UAS, our center trains DOJ agents in UAS 
operations, develops UAS for DOD including threat replicas, performs 
multiagency threat analyses and supports the FAA and the National 
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) research applications. 
This testimony will focus on these areas based on lessons learned 
supporting the DHS enterprise.
    There are several primary areas of concern with UAS Operations in 
the DHS Enterprise:
    1. Operational discipline across the UAS domain especially when it 
        comes to operational procedures compliance and controlling the 
        operational environment;
    2. Overburden of regulations and processes imposed by multiple 
        agencies in training and operations;
    3. Protection of our own assets and infrastructure from unwanted 
        and sometime nefarious UAS incursions;
    4. The cost of systems at large based on the industrial complex 
        costing models;
    5. The challenges of introducing new technology and capabilities 
        that are mission-focused, low cost, and expendable or 
        maintainable.
     lessons learned from the use of uas across the dhs enterprise
    For the next couple of minutes, I would like to discuss the lesson 
learned from over 4,000 UAS missions and operations of which a large 
number relate to the DHS mission set.

              technology and common operational challenges
              
   Our research found that the current status is referred to by 
        existing UAS operators as the ``Wild West''. This is because of 
        the presence of untrained UAS operators and non-cooperative UAS 
        operators who appear during operations supporting disasters or 
        missions.
   Operational discipline is extremely important. Consistent 
        operational procedures including checklists, checklists, and 
        even more checklists must be used for any operation and 
        response. This will ensure a safe and effective operation. The 
        training and credentialing of operators to a standard set of 
        Minimal Operational Proficiency Standards (MOPS) would be 
        extremely valuable. The following 7 areas of proficiency are 
        highly recommended:
    1. Communications--Understanding terminology and its appropriate 
            use for command operations;
    2. Pilot Dexterity and Skills--Proficiency in the skill, precision, 
            and finesse of flying;
    3. Visual Acuity--Competence in using UAS for area scan searches 
            using different techniques;
    4. Air space Operations--Understanding regulatory frameworks 
            (Federal, State, and local) and limitations;
    5. Understanding Command Operations--How to operate with an Air 
            Boss and FEMA's established Incident Command Structure 
            (ICS);
    6. Performance of Safety and Risk Analysis--Institutionalized 
            safety practices and an identification process for risks 
            and mitigation strategies;
    7. Knowledge of UAS, Sensors, and Data Products--Understanding 
            which UAS and sensor sets best fit the mission need and 
            which data products are needed immediately and to be stored 
            for possible future actions.
   UAS development and fielding costs should continue to go 
        down over time as technology evolves unless regulatory 
        restrictions force unnecessary constraints. Autonomy, swarming 
        (multi-aircraft operations), Artificial Intelligence/Machine 
        Learning (AI /ML), Beyond Visual Line of Sight (BVLOS) 
        operations, special purpose solutions and other technology uses 
        offer the ability to respond more rapidly and effectively. 
        Research is needed to incorporate these technologies while 
        regulations must be adjusted to safely allow their 
        introduction. Such technology insertion research could be a 
        part of a National Security and Technology Innovation Program 
        to identify novel UAS technology that is simple, low cost, 
        highly productive to mission needs and rapidly reconfigurable 
        to adjust as the mission adjusts and Made and Manufactured in 
        America! The result would be highly-capable, low-cost UAS, 
        mission-focused solutions.
   Regulations are most necessary for UAS operations but hinder 
        UAS for both disaster response exercises and DHS training and 
        operational exercises. We need to train and plan as we operate! 
        Federal agencies might violate a law if they do any detection 
        or mitigation against a drone without specific authorization. 
        Those authorizations should be streamlined. I have provided 
        those regulations in my references.
   Overall, the use of mechanisms to control the air space 
        (such as an Automated Air Boss when DHS is operating) would 
        prohibit unwanted UAS operations for hobbyists or non-
        cooperative entities.
   Fleet control and an understanding all communications 
        systems and operational frequencies must be known by the 
        incident command structure and Air Boss.
   One of my concerns is the vulnerability of our Nation's 
        airports, highways, maritime transportation systems, railways 
        and mass transit, and pipeline systems to an unwanted UAS drone 
        attack. If we recall the total paralysis that the Nation 
        experienced after 9/11, it's not hard to imagine the impact of 
        a successful UAS attack on any major airport or transportation 
        system in the country. Consider the possibility of an attack on 
        the Mississippi River systems. Our transportation network could 
        be brought to its knees by a single strike. Therefore, the 
        effectiveness of counter uncrewed and UAS systems is of the 
        extreme importance. Counter UAS systems need to be tested and 
        validated against certified threats by independent agents. The 
        testing methods and standards should be established by the 
        independent agents and paid for by equipment vendors.
        
                       first responder challenges
                       
   It is critical to offer appropriate assistance in the event 
        as agreed to and tasked by Incident Command. Those tasking may 
        include collecting data for the tax assessor or assisting FEMA 
        evaluators to determine storm surge or even assisting in active 
        search-and-rescue events. The right UAS strike team, technology 
        (UAS and Sensors) are critical to success.
   Exercises and training should include the integration of UAS 
        Strike Teams within the response organizations reporting to 
        Incident Command as documented in the FEMA ICS construct.
   First responders can gain efficiency if they can exercise 
        realistically by employing BVLOS operations, Special Government 
        Interests (SGIs) and Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFRs) just 
        as they would in a real disaster or emergency response. This is 
        not currently allowed.
   Rapid field data assessment is needed in a concise and 
        consistent manner.
   Authority to approve special emergency Certificates of 
        Authorization or Waiver (ECOAs) or UAS Disaster Operations 
        should be allocated to Incident structures using Pre-approved 
        TFR training and processes as opposed to using the FAA's System 
        Operations Support Center (SOSC) which may take days.
   Air space approvals must be done in a timely manner and 
        approved operations with limited interference must be done more 
        efficiently. Refer to findings based on research, interviews, 
        and exercises in the Alliance for System Safety of UAS through 
        Research Excellence (ASSURE) A52 FAA Final Report, Reference 2.
   Technology like electromagnetic systems must control the 
        response areas keeping unwanted incursions from happening. 
        Operations must gain approved spectrum usage and air space 
        operational limits. Incidents of UAS operations around manned 
        aviation has been seen in fire and flooding responses.
   Although Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) are helpful, 
        MOPS would greatly improve response. However, funding is 
        lacking to institutionalize MOPS across all first responders.
   Operations in extreme temperatures may impact the 
        reliability of UAS and Sensor operations and certainly impacts 
        operator's ability to respond effectively. Research is needed 
        in this area of disaster-focused UAS.
   Utilization of tools like mobile internet, social media, 
        signal chat, and Android Team Awareness Kit (ATAK) are 
        beneficial in performing air space deconfliction and resource 
        management in disparate response areas like in the North 
        Carolina Mountains.
   The ability to conduct BVLOS operations is a must for first 
        responders. This can be accomplished through the use of a 
        global network, such as an Automated Air Boss, which overlays 
        the disaster area with the locations, altitudes, speed and 
        direction of aircraft and drones.
   Our research led us to build a Beyond Part 107 for First 
        Responders booklet to help first responders interpret the Part 
        107 law.
        
                           border challenges
                           
   Border operations would be better executed if allowed to 
        exercise realistically using national air space training 
        locations like the UAS and CUAS Test Range at Huntsville 
        International Airport (HSV) with appropriate approvals/waivers 
        from the FAA, Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and 
        Department of Justice (DOJ).
   Technological advances like automated Air Boss using AI/ML 
        overlaid onto existing solutions like ATAK would expedite 
        emergency responses and provide air space control to ``non-
        cooperatives''.
   UAH operates an open-source threat analysis for several 
        Federal organizations. We produced an open-source threat report 
        on the Southern and Northern Borders and augmented it with UAS 
        use on the border. Some of the results are as follows:
     Fiber Optic-controlled UAS sometimes referred to as 
            ``tethered drones or Dark Drones'' use fiber optic 
            communications. These UAS are not susceptible to jamming 
            with radio signals and can only be destroyed by blinding 
            the fiber or cutting the tether. Some are small in size but 
            have control fibers thousands of kilometers long. The 
            process originated in the Ukraine-Russia war and now is 
            available on-line. Terrorist organizations have begun or 
            will begin to use this technology shortly.
     Another technique now being employed by cartels also came 
            from the Ukraine-Russia war and that is the ability for 
            small, agile UAS known as weaponized drones to drop bombs 
            and other incendiary devices.
     In addition, cartels and drug lords are using their own 
            drones for surveillance of border agent movements and cargo 
            deliveries
            
conclusion--support is needed for more effective and efficient responses
                                                             
    In conclusion, I ask for these committees' assistance in allowing 
our DHS enterprise including our agents, first responders, and 
supporting partners more leeway and freedom to research, test, and 
conduct of exercises. Changing regulations for this support and 
allocating resources for more research into supporting technology will 
allow more effective and efficient responses.
    Agents and responders could benefit from a MOPS-like program to 
establish and standardize consistent, safe, and effective UAS 
operations that is focused on mission objectives.
    I also want to point out that establishing a National Security and 
Technology Innovation program that may mimic what has transpired in the 
DOD would generate technology specified by DHS. This program would be 
laser-focused on applications that are simple, low cost, highly 
productive to mission needs and rapidly reconfigurable and Made and 
Manufactured in America!
    And last, I would like to offer the concept of testing of any 
counter systems by using certified developed threats that replicate the 
threats we see today across peer nations and adversaries.
    Thank you for your attention and consideration. I look forward to 
continued discussions and want to assure you that UAH will continue to 
support research to protect our citizenry, assist our soldiers and 
agents, get disaster victims on the road to recovery, and save lives.
    Please note my references and resources as documented.
    
                         References & Resources
                         
    (1) FAA Memorandum dated February 29, 2024: ``Updated FAA 
        Priorities--New Test Plan for A11L.UAS.090, Evaluation of 
        Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Integration Safety and Security 
        Technologies in the National Airspace System (NAS) Program 
        (A60)'', Matt Novak and Tricia Fantinato.
    (2) UAH FAA A52 Final Report, ``ASSURE A52: Phase II--Preparation 
        for Disaster Preparedness and Response using UAS in the NAS 
        with Coordination Across First Responders'', October 2024. 
        chrome-extension://efaidnbm- nnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://
        assureuas.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/- 06/A52-Final-Report-
        V13_FINAL.pdf.
    (3) UAH FAA A62 Final Report, ``ASSURE A11L.UAS. 68_A62: Disaster 
        Preparedness and Emergency Response Phase III'', March 2025 
        chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://
        www.assureuas.org/wp-content/- uploads/2022/03/
        ASSURE_A11L.UAS_.68_A62_Final_Report_v3.pdf.
    (4) NewsNation Report March 21, 2025 ``US Unprepared for Dark 
        Drone''.
    (5) ``How the U.S. is confronting the threat posed by drones 
        swarming sensitive national security sites'', CBS News, ``60 
        Minutes,'' originally broadcast 3/16/25. https://
        www.cbsnews.com/news/drone-swarms-national-security-60-minutes-
        transcript/.
    (6) Detection: The Pen/Trap Statute, 18 U.S.C.  3121-3127, 
        criminalizes the ``use'' or ``installation'' of a ``device'' or 
        ``process'' that ``records,'' ``decodes,'' or ``captures'' non-
        content information like dialing, routing, addressing, or 
        signaling (``DRAS'') information. See Interagency (DOJ, DOT, 
        FCC, DHS) ``Advisory on the Application of Federal Laws to the 
        Acquisition and Use of Technology to Detect and Mitigate 
        Unmanned Aircraft Systems'' dated August 2020.
    (7) Detection: The Wiretap Act (also known as Title III), 18 U.S.C. 
         2510 et seq., prohibits, among other things, ``intentionally 
        intercept[ing]'' the content of ``any . . . electronic 
        communication[,]'' unless it is conducted pursuant to a court 
        order or a statutory exception applies. See Interagency (DOJ, 
        DOT, FCC, DHS) ``Advisory on the Application of Federal Laws to 
        the Acquisition and Use of Technology to Detect and Mitigate 
        Unmanned Aircraft Systems'' dated August 2020.
    (8) Mitigation: 18 U.S.C.  31(a)(1), The use of non-kinetic or 
        kinetic solutions may implicate Federal criminal prohibitions 
        against, among other things, intercepting and interfering with 
        communications, damaging a ``protected computer,'' and damaging 
        an ``aircraft.'' The term ``aircraft'' refers to ``a civil, 
        military, or public contrivance invented, used, or designed to 
        navigate, fly, or travel in the air.'' See Interagency (DOJ, 
        DOT, FCC, DHS) ``Advisory on the Application of Federal Laws to 
        the Acquisition and Use of Technology to Detect and Mitigate 
        Unmanned Aircraft Systems'' dated August 2020.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Mr. Hendrix.
    I now recognize Chief Fetterman for 5 minutes to summarize 
his opening statement.

    STATEMENT OF KEVIN FETTERMAN, FIRE DIVISION CHIEF, DI-
     VISION 4,  ORANGE COUNTY FIRE  AUTHORITY,  ON  BEHALF
     OF THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS

    Chief Fetterman. Good afternoon, Chairman Guest, Ranking 
Member Correa, Chairman Strong, and Ranking Member Kennedy. I'm 
Division 4 Chief Kevin Fetterman of the Orange County Fire 
Authority. Today I'm representing the International Association 
of Fire Chiefs. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss UAS and 
the role they play in the Department of Homeland Security's 
enterprise.
    Fire and EMS departments across the Nation are beginning to 
deploy UAS during emergency operations. UAS provides a number 
of capabilities to improve emergency response operations and 
reduce life and property loss. From the perspective of an 
incident commander, it is key to gain situational awareness at 
the beginning and maintain it throughout an incident.
    UAS provides real-time data about the incident scene 
through aerial high-resolution imagery plus videos. Thermal 
imaging by UAS can determine the spread of a fire or the 
potential hot spots outside the line of a wildland fire. The 
LIDAR capabilities of a UAS can be used to assess landslides 
and mud and debris flows. UAS can also be used to identify 
subjects during search-and-rescue missions and for operational 
missions, like delivering supplies or conducting firing 
operations during wildland fires.
    The September 2024 airport fire demonstrated the utility of 
public safety UAS. The OCFA deployed its UAS early to gain 
necessary situational awareness. During the incident, we used 
local and Federal UAS with infrared cameras to track the fire 
and determine the extent of the remaining hot spots. While the 
fire covered 23,519 acres and burned more than 160 structures, 
it still provided a great example of how interagency 
collaboration can manage an incident successfully in a high-
complexity environment.
    During wildland fires and other major incidents, it is 
important to integrate operations of multiple emergency 
response aircraft. In California, the fire traffic areas are 
established to provide coordination between helicopters, fixed-
wing air tankers, command-and-control aircraft, UAS, and other 
aircraft. The FAA also institutes temporary flight 
restrictions, also known as TFRs, to ensure the safety of first 
responders as they engage in emergency operations.
    The January 2025 L.A. fires demonstrated the advantages and 
risks of UAS use. For example, public safety UAS provided real-
time information and data on the fires in Pacific Palisades and 
other localities. However, public recreational UAS incursions 
create a great risk to our operations. Between January 7 and 
January 25, there were more than 700 incursions by more than 
400 different UAS. One UAS flight was recorded at a level of 
20,000 feet, and in another, a public UAS operator lost track 
of his aircraft and it hit a Canadian Super Scooper. It put a 
hole about this size in the wing. This accident endangered the 
lives of the crew, endangered the lives of first responders on 
the ground, and grounded the aircraft.
    We ask Congress and the Federal Government to take action 
to protect emergency operations from these UAS incursions. 
Specifically, we recommend passing legislation that would 
thwart pilots of UAS incursions into fire traffic areas and 
TFRs. Legal protections should be in place to maximize the 
ability of first responders to save lives.
    Formulating and implementing clear UAS mitigation 
procedures. Identifying Federal law enforcement personnel and 
processes for eliminating threats to public safety operations.
    Enhancing remote ID requirements and reducing remote ID 
bypasses.
    Establishing formal coordination plans with all relevant 
local, State, and Federal stakeholders.
    Implementing effective public awareness campaigns and 
developing continuing education for the public about the safe 
operations of UAS.
    Last, encouraging UAS manufacturers to develop solutions 
that universally support the emergency operations of American 
first responders.
    In closing, thank you for the opportunity to testify at 
today's hearing. Fire and emergency--EMS departments are 
embracing the various benefits that UAS can provide for their 
emergency response operations. By coordinating the use of 
Federal, State, and local UAS, the incident commanders can get 
a better understanding of emergency incidents and even identify 
and provide resources to victims. However, we must work to make 
the air space safer for our emergency responders. The Federal 
Government needs to be more aggressive in developing and 
enforcing restrictions on public UAS incursions into TFRs. As 
we tell the public in California, if you fly, we can't.
    I look forward to answering any questions that you may 
have. Thank you, and I appreciate the opportunity.
    [The prepared statement of Chief Fetterman follows:]
    
                 Prepared Statement of Kevin Fetterman
                 
                             April 1, 2025
                             
    Good afternoon, Chairman Guest; Ranking Member Correa; Chairman 
Strong; and Ranking Member Kennedy. My name is Kevin Fetterman. I am 
the Division 4 chief with the Orange County Fire Authority (OCFA) in 
Orange County, California. I oversee the delivery of Fire and Emergency 
Services in the communities of Tustin, Villa Park, and Yorba Linda. I 
appreciate the opportunity today to discuss Unmanned Aircraft Systems 
(UAS) and the role they play across the Department of Homeland Security 
(DHS) enterprise.
    Today I am testifying on behalf of the International Association of 
Fire Chiefs (IAFC). The IAFC represents the leadership of over 1.1 
million firefighters and emergency responders. IAFC members are the 
world's leading experts in firefighting, emergency medical services, 
terrorism response, hazardous materials (hazmat) incidents, wildland 
fire suppression, natural disasters, search and rescue, and public-
safety policy. Since 1873, the IAFC has provided a forum for its 
members to exchange ideas, develop best practices, participate in 
executive training, and discover diverse products and services 
available to first responders.
    America's fire and emergency service is an all-hazards response 
force that is locally situated, staffed, trained, and equipped to 
respond to all types of emergencies. There are approximately 1.1 
million men and women in the fire and emergency service--consisting of 
approximately 300,000 career firefighters and 800,000 volunteer 
firefighters--serving in over 30,000 fire departments around the 
Nation. They are trained to respond to all hazards ranging from 
earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods to acts of terrorism, 
hazardous materials incidents, technical rescues, fires, and medical 
emergencies. We usually are the first at the scene of a disaster and 
the last to leave.
    I also would like to extend my gratitude to Orange County Fire 
Chief Brian Fennessy, Deputy Chief TJ McGovern, and Assistant Chief 
Baryic Hunter for supporting my testimony here today. As you may know, 
Orange County is the third-most populous county in California and the 
sixth-most populous in the United States. The population is larger than 
21 States, and the county is the second-most-densely populated in 
California. The OCFA is an all-hazard regional fire service 
organization. Over 1,500 career firefighters and staff serve 23 cities 
in the county and all unincorporated areas in a 586-square-mile 
coverage area. The OCFA protects nearly 2 million residents from its 78 
fire stations, covers over 188,817 acres of wildland, and 658,659 
dwellings. The OCFA responded to nearly 183,900 incidents in 2024.

                         situational awareness
                         
    From the perspective of an incident commander, it is key to 
establish and maintain situational awareness at the beginning--and 
through the duration--of an incident. Situational awareness can be 
defined as the understanding of an environment, its elements, and how 
it changes over time or in response to other factors. As local fire 
departments purchase UAS and incorporate them into their operations, 
the UAS are becoming a significant asset in improving situational 
awareness on the incident scene.
    For example, UAS can provide real-time data of the incident scene 
by providing high-resolution aerial images and videos to the incident 
management team to better coordinate operations. Thermal imaging by UAS 
can determine the spread of a fire and potential hot spots in a 
wildland fire. The use of LIDAR (light detection and ranging) 
capabilities on UAS can be used to assess landslides and mud and debris 
flows. UAS also can be used in search-and-rescue incidents to both 
identify victims and provide overwatch during operations. By using a 
commercial common platform, incident commanders can analyze the data 
from UAS and make critical time-sensitive decisions to keep their 
personnel safe.
    The UAS also can take response roles during incidents. They can be 
used to provide medical resources and food to responders or civilians 
in the field. They also can be used as Plastic Sphere Dispensers to 
assist with firing operations during active fire areas. In many cases, 
UAS can be used in dangerous or technically challenging situations 
instead of endangering fire service personnel.

                           fire traffic areas
                           
    In order to successfully utilize UAS on incident scenes, they must 
be integrated with Fire Traffic Areas (FTA). The FTAs were established 
as interagency air space management tools for standard communication 
protocols. In California, it is the interagency standard for aerial 
firefighting. The FTA can be further defined as air space with a 5-
nautical-mile radius from an incident during suppression operations.
    FTAs are a layered approach to aeronautical management. Within 
FTAs, coordination takes place with helicopters, fixed-wing tanker 
aircraft, command-and-control aircraft, intelligence-gathering 
aircraft, as well as UAS used by public safety. When recreational or 
non-public safety UAS encroach upon FTAs or areas covered by the 
Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) Temporary Flight Restrictions 
(TFR), they create a significant danger for the fire service aircraft 
and personnel.

                    the september 2024 airport fire
                    
    These lessons and the validation of the benefits of public safety 
UAS were clearly proven on the Airport Fire in early September 2024. I 
was one of the Unified Incident Commanders for the 23,519-acre Airport 
Fire in Orange County. It burned aggressively between both Orange and 
Riverside counties, with, unfortunately, more than 160 structures being 
lost. It also coincided with the Lines Fire in San Bernardino County 
and the Bridge Fire in Los Angeles County.
    At the beginning of this incident, we were able to deploy OFCA's 
fleet of UAS to establish situational awareness as a first step to the 
response. During the incident, we were able to use Federal, county, and 
local UAS with infrared sensors to determine the extent of the 
remaining hotspots. This incident provided a great example of how 
Federal, State, and local interagency collaboration can successfully 
manage a dangerous incident. The OCFA is continuing to use its UAS 
fleet in collaboration with local academia to monitor for mud and 
debris flows in these same fire areas.

      2025 southern california wildfires and the importance of uas
      
    The beginning of 2025 brought some of the most challenging 
environmental conditions we have ever seen in Southern California. On 
January 7, the devastating wildfires that we saw in cities like Malibu, 
Altadena, Pasadena, and other localities impacted the lives of hundreds 
of thousands of people. The 2025 Southern California wildfires will 
have a lasting impact for us all.
    For many Californians, the 2025 Southern California wildfires were 
the first time they recognized that UAS could play a role in wildland 
fire response. Due to extensive media coverage of this event, citizens 
watched as UAS assisted first responders in their efforts to manage the 
incident. The UAS were able to provide up-to-date data and information 
in real time, including through thermal imaging. The combination of UAS 
and common UAS operation platforms provided the capability for first 
responders to save more lives.
    Proper procedures, such as FTAs and FAA TFRs, went into effect as 
the incident got under way. These safety procedures were put into place 
to mitigate the risk of recreational UAS interfering with the work of 
first responders. Unfortunately, many Southern Californians were either 
not aware of the FTA/TFRs or they simply chose to ignore them.

                      recreational uas incursions
                      
    In the State of California, we say ``if you fly, we can't.'' Two of 
the pillars that ensure successful UAS operations are communications 
and coordination. Often the response to a wildland fire can be chaotic. 
When the non-public safety UAS encroach upon the air space, it can 
create dangerous situations and accidents.
    The beginning of 2025 brought some of the worst air space 
deconfliction issues we have seen. There were more than 700 UAS 
intrusions into the Palisades Fire TFR/FTA by more than 400 different 
UAS between January 7 and 25. The highest UAS flight was even noted as 
high as 20,000 feet.
    In one instance, a California resident used his personal UAS to 
survey the fire damage during an active TFR. He launched the UAS from a 
parking garage in Santa Monica. After flying the UAS more than a mile 
away from his location, he lost track of the UAS' position. It crashed 
into a Canadair CL-145 fixed-wing, Canadian Super Scooper, which was 
engaged in fire suppression operations. It was 1 of the 2 Canadian 
Super Scoopers deployed to the fires.

 solutions to discourage recreational uas incursions during emergency 
                                 events
                                 
    This challenge of UAS incursions creates an extreme risk factor in 
situations such as fires, disasters, or at the border. There are many 
steps that can be taken to reduce/eliminate UAS incursions from 
incidents such as wildfires. These following suggestions are ways in 
which UAS operations can be strengthened for first responders:
   Develop and enact legislation that would thwart pilots of 
        UAS incursions into FTAs/TFRs. Legal protections should be in 
        place to maximize the ability of first responders to save lives
   Formulate and implement clear UAS mitigation procedures. 
        Identifying Federal law enforcement personnel and processes for 
        eliminating threats to public safety UAS operations.
   Enhance Remote ID Requirements and reducing Remote ID 
        bypasses.
   Establish formal coordination plans with all relevant local, 
        State, and Federal stakeholders.
   Implement effective public awareness campaigns and develop 
        continuing education for the public about the safe operation of 
        UAS.
   Encourage UAS manufacturers to develop solutions that 
        universally support the emergency operations of American first 
        responders.
        
                               conclusion
                               
    In closing, I would like to express my sincere appreciation for the 
opportunity to testify about the use of UAS across the DHS enterprise. 
A greater number of fire and EMS departments are deploying UAS to 
assist with their emergency operations. They are finding that UAS can 
improve situational awareness, deliver resources, and provide 
specialized capabilities for search-and-rescue and other specialized 
missions. However, the public must use UAS in a responsible manner and 
not be allowed to interfere with emergency operations or endanger the 
lives of the public or first responders. The IAFC looks forward to 
working with the committee to incentivize the available use of UAS for 
local public safety agencies, while also ensuring their safe operation 
by the public.

    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Chief Fetterman.
    Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their 
5 minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning 
may be called after all Members have been recognized. I now 
recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Director Farrell, thank you for being here today. We have 
seen that recent concerns over privacy, public safety, and 
national security have led to restrictions on drones from 
certain foreign manufacturers. Given these concerns and these 
restrictions, how is the industry affected by requirements 
imposed by the National Defense Authorization Act?
    Mr. Farrell. Thank you, Chairman Guest. So I believe that 
the United States industry is playing catch-up. I think that 
the commercial market and first responders have had access to 
cheaper Chinese technology, in particular, for quite a while. I 
think that we had heard testimony around the program that DIU 
has that has certainly led to advancements and investment in 
U.S. manufacturing. I think that the CHIPS Act and other 
efforts in order to bring the technology back here to invest in 
the critical components, the auto pilots, the camera systems 
have made a lot of headway.
    If you had asked me this question several years ago, I 
think I would have said we're pretty far away, but recent 
investments, recent technology is really showing vast 
improvements.
    The work that we're doing through program jus---or Project 
JUSTICE--is meant to support DHS components in their 
procurement processes. You heard about the bottleneck at DIU. 
One way that we're trying to support industry here is to give 
them an alternative pathway for DHS procurement processes where 
we do our own vetting, we do our own cyber vulnerability 
assessments as well as critical component analysis, and that 
opens the door for DHS components as they choose to request and 
look at different technologies to be able to give other 
manufacturers an opportunity to sell and to ensure that the 
components have a safe product at the end of the day.
    So all that to say is the NDAA requirements have truly 
caused some bottlenecks, but we are working rapidly to try to 
alleviate those and enhance the American product and as well as 
ensure the safe operations.
    Mr. Guest. Director Farrell, you mentioned project JUSTICE, 
a partnership between DHS S&T and the Raspet Flight Center 
there located at Mississippi State University. Could, No. 1, 
you just give us kind-of a brief overview of Project JUSTICE, 
and then you mentioned just a moment ago, but maybe go into a 
little bit more detail the work being done to support the 
Department of Homeland Security?
    Mr. Farrell. Absolutely. So Project JUSTICE was started as 
the common UAS test site back in 2016. We exist now in our 
current iteration as Justice NextGen as the joint unmanned 
systems testing in a collaborative environment program under 
the Air, Land, and Ports of Entry portfolio. As a part of this 
work, we support all of the components for their UAS testing, 
as well as research and development needs as it relates to UAS, 
as well as other associated technologies.
    So as DHS gets a gap within the UAS world, they'll reach 
out to us to be able to analyze that. This can take many 
different forms. It can be looking at the landscape of 
commercial available products. It can be examining what exists 
within our research portfolio to understand what can fit that 
space. It can also be custom UAS development. We've developed 
UAS that the market wasn't providing for HSI, an entry-level 
drone that had some really great capabilities. It can also be 
items where--like air domain awareness. We just delivered a 
tool for DHS that provides air domain awareness leveraging 
beyond visual line-of-sight capabilities that remote ID are 
meant to provide. Then also a broadcast or an ATAK system to 
give situational awareness, and we demoed that actually at the 
university's campus around a football game scenario.
    We've also leveraged the program to support FEMA Region 4, 
so we actually flew the Teros in support for Helene as well as 
Debby, and that was a really great showcase of a 44-foot 
wingspan aircraft, 24 hours of endurance that can distribute 
live video and tiled imagery.
    Those are just some of the things we're doing. But truly, I 
think that the portfolio, given the partnerships, given the 
collaborations with our ASSURE Center of Excellence as well as 
the other industry partners, really opens the gamut for what we 
can provide to DHS.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Director Farrell. My time has now 
expired.
    I would like to recognize Ranking Member Correa for 5 
minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Fetterman, you oversee the command and emergency 
planning division of the largest fire agency in Orange County. 
Nearly 2 million residents across 78 fire stations. You have a 
lot of experience with search-and-rescue and planning missions.
    How do emerging technologies like drone technology help 
keep Orange County residents safe?
    Chief Fetterman. Ranking Member Correa, thank you for the 
question. I appreciate the opportunity to answer it.
    Orange County Fire is fortunate, under the leadership of 
Fire Chief Brian Fennessy, to lean fairly in to emerging 
technology. We see it as an important aspect, that being 
meeting the threats that we face. We utilize every opportunity 
to engage in emerging technology, such as AI cameras for fire 
detection. As you pointed out, we utilize a significant fleet 
of drones.
    Utilizing on the fire line to determine and look for hot 
spots, especially outside of the line, those are areas of the 
fire that you might not be able to see from the ground, but 
using the aerial observation and gaining that situational 
awareness, you can find spots that could turn into a 
significant fire later, especially if there's spots in between 
the fire line and----
    Mr. Correa. So identifying those spots before they flare up 
saves countless lives, millions, if not billions, of dollars in 
damage. You mentioned 150 structures recently burned in Orange 
County. Boy, when those fires go, they really go quickly. 
Technology, emerging technology, private sector, public sector.
    Recently, Elon Musk attempted to fire 400 employees of DHS. 
Some of those employees were at the Department of Science and 
Technology Directorate, which is really in charge of R&D, 
figuring out better ways keeping Americans safe. They were 
developing, testing, and evaluating tools that help 
firefighters navigate in dark, smoke-filled buildings; how to 
rescue trapped civilians; communicate with firefighters, first 
responders.
    Can you speak to the importance of making sure that kind of 
research and development is developed as quickly as possible?
    Chief Fetterman. Yes. So, certainly, I would say that the 
DHS science and technology is a critical aspect. We utilize 
that technology. We're leaning into firefighter tracking and 
identifying where our personnel are, and that's not an easy 
task. We have to leverage all available technology to do that. 
So emerging technology and even the bigger support of FEMA 
programs, like the National Fire Academy and the U.S. Fire 
Administration, those are all critical to the fire service. 
Those are the backbones of our leadership programs and our 
ability to educate and teach our new and upcoming fire service 
leaders.
    Mr. Correa. Mr. Fetterman, we're talking about the 
affirmative use of drones. What about the defensive side in 
emerging technologies?
    You just talked about what I would consider a knucklehead, 
a drone flying in an active emergency situation. I'd say these 
people have no common sense. I don't care how criminal you make 
it. They are going to do dumb things.
    So I would imagine the emerging technologies that we can 
come up with to clear the field, so to speak, so you can do 
work is also an important part of the emerging technology.
    Chief Fetterman. Yes, sir. So seeing the report of the 
number of drone incursions on the fires in Los Angeles was, 
frankly, shocking. To see that number of drone incursions into 
a fire traffic area, and what that is, is you're talking about 
multiple aircrafts, 30 helicopters, 6 to 8 fixed-wing air 
tankers, and so--all operating to extinguish and mitigate the 
fire. So when you have drone incursions in there, we need to 
do--we and ideally this committee and Congress all together 
needs to take swift action to mitigate those incursions into 
our fire traffic areas, and specifically the TFRs. It's an 
incredibly dangerous situation.
    Mr. Correa. Chief, in my last 35 seconds, we've established 
that drone technology, emerging technology, very important, 
very useful, also very dangerous. How can we in Congress help 
you do your job better?
    Chief Fetterman. Well, certainly the emerging technology is 
critically important to us. Leaning into that, supporting 
legislation that protects the first responders. As I mentioned, 
the National Fire Academy is our leadership backbone. That's 
where all of our leaders that bring that vision to engage into 
emerging technology come from. They're coming out of programs 
like the Executive Fire Officer Program. Certainly the support 
of all the grant programs--AFG, SAFER, HSGP, UASI--those are 
the types of programs that help the first responders at the 
boots on the ground, boots in the dirt level, to continue to 
evolve. So I'd encourage this group to continue to support 
those programs.
    Mr. Correa. Chief Fetterman, thank you for joining us 
today, and look forward to continuing working with you. Thank 
you, sir.
    Mr. Chairman, I'm out of time, but before I do turn over my 
time, I'd like unanimous consent to insert into the record an 
article from the DHS Science and Tech Directorate dated 
November 6 of 2023, titled, ``Picturing the Future of 
Firefighters,'' which describes how science and technology 
serves a crucial role in R&D and testing technologies alongside 
the private sector to help our firefighters and other first 
responders to respond safely to emergencies and save lives.
    Mr. Guest. Without objection.
    [The information follows:]
    
         Feature Article: Picturing the Future of Firefighting
         
Release Date: November 6, 2023

https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/news/2023/11/06/feature-
        article-picturing-future-firefighting
    Trying to find your way through an unfamiliar building filled with 
dark, dense smoke while lives are on the line is not an ideal work 
environment, but for countless firefighters, it's the reality. These 
types of low-visibility situations are unavoidable--and can be 
extremely hazardous. Responders can become disoriented during emergency 
operations when every second counts. Rescuing trapped or incapacitated 
civilians, keeping tabs on fellow responders, communicating with the 
command center, and locating exit routes--all while navigating through 
flames and debris--is an enormously daunting task. The Science and 
Technology Directorate (S&T) has been working with an innovative 
private industry partner and first responder evaluators to design a 
technology that will guide firefighters through low-visibility 
environments and get them safely back home to their families.

                        seeing through the smoke
                        
    C-THRU is a real-time, indoor visualization system currently in 
development with San Francisco-based startup Qwake Technologies, Inc. 
S&T is supporting this research and development effort with funding as 
well as expert oversight every step of the way. ``The main objectives 
of the project are to provide effective navigation in obscured 
environments, enable safe and coordinated situational awareness in 
chaotic conditions, and support rapid decisionmaking in high stress 
situations,'' said S&T Program Manager Maua Karen Johnson. ``The bottom 
line is C-THRU will save lives.''
    The C-THRU system will deliver a hands-free, augmented reality 
visual overlay, powered by a micro-computer safely housed inside an 
easily wearable device that attaches to a standard firefighter helmet. 
C-THRU consists of two components: the Navigator (worn on the helmet) 
and the Visual Command (a tablet used by incident commanders to see 
what their crew members are seeing). The display is meant to minimize 
confusion and disorientation, using advanced thermal imaging to 
identify surfaces and objects in the vicinity, such as stairs and 
people.
    According to Qwake CEO Sam Cossman, ``One of the most important 
features of C-THRU is to take that raw thermal image . . . and kind of 
draw lines around all the objects in the frame. An outline around a 
human body or the geometry of a building is rapidly shown through the 
heads-up display. So, you can very quickly say, `Am I in a small closet 
or a big warehouse? Is there a victim on the ground? Is there a 
staircase to an egress?' This capability is referred to as edge 
detection and it leverages artificial intelligence and machine learning 
to help firefighters rapidly make sense of their environment.
    In addition to the edge extraction capability Cossman described, 
Qwake is working on developing a backtracking function that provides 
turn-by-turn guidance, allowing a responder to follow the path they 
took into the building back out to safety. It is all too easy to get 
turned around in an unfamiliar, low visibility environment. The ability 
to automatically locate a safe exit route addresses the very real 
concern of firefighters losing their way during a response because they 
are naturally focused on other issues. C-THRU eliminates the need to 
form a mental map of one's surroundings, allowing them to focus their 
attention to the mission at hand.
    The personal navigation is further enhanced with a simple, 
nonverbal two-way communication capability. Incident commanders can 
request personnel accountability reports through the Visual Command 
tablet to ensure that crew members are not in distress. Responders 
wearing C-THRU can send a ``thumbs-up'' reply, confirming their status 
or, if needed, issue a mayday to request help.
    There is also the opportunity to gain post-operation insight via 
the Visual Command tablet to support continuous improvement.

                      innovations upon innovations
                      
    The heart of the C-THRU device is the Navigator heads-up display. A 
small piece of abrasion-resistant glass flips down within the user's 
field of vision and images are projected onto this piece of glass. A 
reflective coating known as a dichroic filter splits the beam of light 
that's projecting the images, bouncing certain wavelengths of light 
back to the viewer's eye while also allowing them to still see through 
the glass. The glass features advanced hydrophilic coating materials 
designed to help reduce fogging and power consumption.
    C-THRU is designed to be attached to a firefighter's existing 
helmet during smoke investigations, structural firefighting, and 
general rescue operations. Three interlinked modules spread 
functionality and weight across the helmet, while reducing impact risk 
and snag hazard. The center of mass is strategically located toward the 
back of the head rather than the front to reduce forward tipping and 
improve comfort. The adjustable mechanical hinge boasts a breakaway 
safety feature, should the device become caught on something during a 
response.
    The technology was also designed to be able to take the heat. A 
major obstacle for any firefighters' gear, extreme temperatures were 
addressed up front with conscientious enclosure design and physical 
packaging. C-THRU has a rubberized surface with hard plastic beneath 
that protects the printed circuit boards and enables the software to 
properly function despite extreme temperature. Thermal survivability 
stress testing isn't limited to what the system--or the user--will 
encounter during a firefighting response, it also involves the function 
of the system itself. Developers needed to determine how much power the 
system uses with all peripherals connected and ensure the central 
processing unit and graphics processing unit could remain operational 
without overheating. S&T and Qwake created a full spectrum of simulated 
user stress levels to assess performance and optimize the C-THRU device 
for use in any situation a firefighter may face.

                      s&t prioritized ease of use
                      
    Every aspect of the product has been designed with user experience 
in mind, including ergonomic, well-placed buttons. In fact, a whole lot 
of thought has gone into refining the placement and function of the 
buttons to provide an intuitive tactile experience. Rather than simply 
pressing down from above onto a flat surface, like a computer keyboard, 
the architecture of C-THRU's buttons have a tilted angle and are each 
divided by elevated ridges so the user will be able to comfortably 
align their fingers and recognize which buttons are activated without 
seeing them. The development of the button geometry and configuration 
has incorporated invaluable feedback from firefighters in S&T's First 
Responder Resource Group who shared the need for large buttons that can 
accommodate their large gloves.
    ``I've been involved for quite a few years now, so I've seen the 
prototype evolve to where we're at right now . . . it's come a very, 
very long way. And I'm impressed,'' said Walter Vidosh, Menlo Park Fire 
Protection District Captain.
    The control menu is similarly intuitive and well-tested. C-THRU's 
three features of navigation, vision, and communication are accessed 
via an interactive flow that employs user experience/user interface 
best practices. The system is designed to minimize the number of 
selections necessary to arrive at a desired result and never leave the 
user in a digital dead end. Key communications features and functions 
include critical alerts such as emergency evacuation and mayday 
distress signal, incident notifications related to various stages of a 
response, and system status information, for example, battery charge 
levels.

                      putting the tech to the test
                      
    S&T officials, representatives from Qwake, and firefighter 
evaluators recently convened at the San Diego Fire-Rescue Training 
Facility in California at the end of August for an operational field 
assessment to test the capabilities of this innovative equipment 
enhancement. The assessment included both the Navigator helmet 
accessory and Visual Command tablet. S&T's National Urban Security 
Technology Laboratory (NUSTL) oversaw the event, designing three 
different scenarios that subjected this technology to the punishing 
realities of firefighting.
    Kris Dooley, NUSTL Program Analyst, explained, ``NUSTL will 
consolidate the data received from the responders, develop a report 
that will be published for the responder community, and that 
information goes to Qwake for potential inclusion, to enhance the 
products prior to commercialization.''
    Firefighters were outfitted with C-THRU Navigator prior to entering 
a heated, dark, smoke-filled space. The scenarios allowed them to 
assess operational aspects such as comfort, usability and compatibility 
with personal protective equipment as well as the edge detection 
thermal imagining, and incident command communication functions. The 
feedback from the responders will help further refine the product for 
successful commercialization in 2024.
    As Captain Justin Quarisa, of the Cosumnes Fire Department in Elk 
Grove, California, put it, ``The wow factor is just the incredible 
technology. Obviously, we have thermal imagers, but putting that on 
your helmet with a heads-up display and then the firefighter tracking 
is something that everybody's been trying to solve. So just having 
those capabilities and then the AI component where it enhances what 
you're seeing with the green image or you can, you know, take it off if 
you don't like it, but it really just gives you a lot better picture of 
a room, almost like you're watching a video game.''
    You can learn more about C-THRU by listening to our Tech Speak 
minisode of the Technologically Speaking podcast, ``Almost Like You're 
Watching a Video Game'' on Apple or Google podcasts or on our website.

    Mr. Correa. Thank you.
    Mr. Guest. I now recognize Chairman Strong for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Strong. To effectively counter emerging threats, it's 
important to understand enemy capabilities and the technologies 
that are evolving in this space. Dr. Ledbetter, I know COLSA 
designs and produces swarming threat represented drones for the 
Army, but can this technology be used for other purposes?
    Mr. Ledbetter. Absolutely. We've used swarming drones to 
create a symmetry on the battlefield. That can be used in a 
positive manner as well. For a couple of things, No. 1, we use 
multiple transmission methods that creates resiliency. When 
communications go down in a humanitarian assistance disaster 
recovery-type situation, that can provide resilience and 
communication. So that's one aspect it can be used.
    The second aspect could be coverage. So with swarms, you're 
just going to get more coverage instead of just 1 drone. You 
mentioned in one of the opening statements about MQ-9. It's 1 
drone. It's a very powerful drone. However, we can provide a 
swarm up to 100 from a single laptop. That can provide more 
coverage with more sensors that can do a lot of--essentially, 
100 different missions. So yes, it could absolutely be 
repurposed.
    Mr. Strong. While on the topic of drone technology, we also 
hear a lot about technological advancement in drones as they 
relate to AI decision making. Dr. Ledbetter, what role do you 
see for these technologies within the DHS and first responder 
mission spaces? What advancements are likely on the horizon?
    Mr. Ledbetter. Well, so we'll start with just AI. You know, 
we use that term a lot. Drone-to-drone communication using 
large language models to incorporate artificial intelligence/
machine learning into the swarms helps them automate not only 
their flight path but automate response. We've heard about 
drone in a box where you have drones prepositioned, and without 
anybody actually controlling the drone, you can use AI to 
respond to some incident or, you know, a variety of incidents, 
whether it be a lost person at night or whether it be, you 
know, an accident on the interstate.
    Mr. Strong. Thank you.
    Everyone here understands the essential role that colleges, 
universities, and other academic institutions play in 
supporting the research, testing, and evaluation of new and 
emerging technologies. Mr. Hendrix, your program at the 
University of Alabama in Huntsville has advanced both 
Government and industry use of aerospace and autonomous 
engineering solutions. Could you expand on the value that UAH 
and other academic institutions offer that differ from industry 
and why this is advantageous to DHS?
    Mr. Hendrix. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question, Chairman 
Strong. We appreciate that.
    So part of the research that we're doing in autonomy 
includes looking at advanced algorithms and development 
relative to artificial intelligence or machine learning, 
looking at things that are known as leader follower on multi-
application operations. We are having the ability to operate in 
close proximity at the university and also on the university to 
test out those certain kinds of paradigms. It gives us the 
ability to look at those algorithms and refine those 
developments in a more of a research standpoint so we can come 
up with a solution that an organization like COLSA could 
develop and then produce.
    One of the things we would originally do at the DOD side is 
a customer brought to us a very specialized requirement. I need 
you to build the capability to do X, Y, Z. I need you to have 
it built in a modular sense. Can you do it in 6 months? We did, 
and we developed that and that is now ready for production.
    Mr. Strong. Very impressive.
    Given the increasing importance of UAS in rapid response 
scenarios, it raises an important question about how our 
regulations and processes are evolving to keep pace. Mr. 
Hendrix, in your opinion, with the increased use and capability 
of drones, are there any UAS regulations or processes that need 
to be adjusted?
    Mr. Hendrix. Yes, sir, absolutely. If you look at the 
counter-UAS side, for example, we deal with economic--mentioned 
these in the testimony--the different types of regulations that 
need to be adjusted to allow us to do a full set of testing in 
the counter-UAS area where there would also be detection or 
mitigation. We're working with DHS on that, but we've been 
unable to, because of regulation, to be able to do full 
testing. Again, we test and we need to be able to test as we 
operate.
    Mr. Strong. Those partnerships are very valuable.
    Mr. Hendrix. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Strong. In the previous administration, for every drone 
flown by Border Patrol, the Mexican cartel flew 17, many times 
entering U.S. air space, to land and offload pounds of fentanyl 
in an attempt to kill a generation of Americans. What is most 
interesting, in Huntsville, Alabama, we have the proven 
technology to neutralize that drone threat. We can intercept 
and do forensics. We can block their flight or we can drop and 
destroy them. Our time is now.
    I thank each of you for being here today. Your information 
is very valuable. Again, thank you each for being here.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you, Chairman Strong.
    I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Ranking Member 
Kennedy, for his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you, Chairman. Again, thanks to each of 
you for your testimony.
    Also, Dr. Ledbetter, thank you for your 30 years of service 
in the United States Marine Corps. Extremely impressive.
    So I represent a Congressional district, Buffalo Niagara 
region in western New York, and we have our own fair share of 
extreme weather, and oftentimes it's extreme winter weather. We 
average over 90 inches of snowfall each winter. A few years 
back, Christmas weekend, over 48 hours there was over 50 inches 
of snow that dropped, along with blinding wind and below zero 
temperatures. It was a blizzard, Winter Storm Elliot, breaking 
record numbers. Forty-seven people perished in my community, 
just to give you an idea of the impact of this storm.
    I mentioned earlier in my opening remarks how local law 
enforcement used drone technology to find an individual that 
had been lost in a wooded area using infrared technology. Of 
course, Chief Fetterman, you're speaking to the impact of drone 
technology during wildfires, all of these natural disasters 
that are occurring with more ferociousness and certainly more 
often.
    Chief Fetterman, can you describe the importance of testing 
and piloting drones in emergencies that are caused by these 
extreme weather events?
    Chief Fetterman. Yes, sir. Ranking Member Kennedy, thank 
you for the question.
    So certainly the last time you want to put a drone up is 
the first time. So what we want to ensure is that our 
personnel, when they're using drones for life safety, is to 
ensure they have plenty of opportunities to be prepared and 
they're well-trained. So we can leverage the technology, 
example IR technology, in a remote rescue environment safely, 
professionally and, most importantly, quickly. You know, time 
is life in our business. So having that preparation in blue sky 
days is most important, that way our folks are ready and 
prepared to go to work when the time is right.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Are there ways the Federal 
Government can help with these test cases?
    Chief Fetterman. So certainly, as I stated, the support of 
grants that can assist with the testing process and the 
training process. For example, recently we used UASI grants for 
an incident management team training that revolved around drone 
swarms and aircraft and what would occur. So our personnel--and 
that was an operational, area-wide, county-wide program. Test 
and training is making us better prepared to respond.
    Mr. Kennedy. Thank you. Chief Fetterman, can you speak to 
how the Federal agencies support fire response? I'm personally 
extremely concerned about the impacts on local first responders 
at the cuts to FEMA and NOAA will have. Can you speak to the 
agency's support?
    Chief Fetterman. Sure. So certainly there are impacts to 
the fire service. Specifically under FEMA, U.S. Fire 
Administration is an essential element for fire service 
leadership and the American fire service. As I stated, the 
National Fire Academy is the backbone of our leadership. It's 
analogous to the Navy War College. It is important to our fire 
service leadership to be educated. Certainly, the grants, as I 
think as we mentioned, the funding opportunities to leverage to 
get those tools into the hands of the local first responders 
that are responding on Federal responsibility area land.
    Last, our fire department and many fire departments and 
police departments across this Nation participate in the 
National Urban Search and Rescue System. That is a system that 
I have personally deployed with in a handful of States and 
supported local first responders.
    The National Urban Search and Rescue System and its 28 
national task forces is a critical element of FEMA and it 
responds on every national disaster. For example, every 
hurricane, mud and debris flow, flooding, the Surfside building 
collapse in Florida, those are elements in areas that those 
task forces respond and support all the local entities. I can't 
say enough about how well and what a cost-effective resource 
those are. Because those aren't Federal responders all the 
time; those are hosted by the home agencies. So it's a great 
program.
    Mr. Kennedy. I have more questions, but I'm out of time. I 
yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you.
    I now recognize the gentlelady from South Carolina for her 
5 minutes of questioning, Mrs. Biggs.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you, Chairman Guest. I want to thank you 
for holding this hearing today, especially considering the 
recent wildfires that have impacted my own district. My 
thoughts and prayers are with the families and the first 
responders and the entire communities impacted by these fires.
    I have been on the ground alongside State and local 
leadership, and I want to be as helpful as possible. I have 
been inspired by the way our community has come together. 
That's the spirit of South Carolina and that's something to be 
proud of.
    Earlier today, I received a message that so far in my 
district, 12,652 acres have burned, with 30 percent 
containment. That was a little earlier today. This is the 
second record-setting natural disaster that my constituents 
have faced in the last 6 months. The Upstate is resilient and 
it will rebuild.
    So my question is to Mr. Farrell. Can you describe the 
coordination between your organization, Federal and local 
entities as you engaged in the response to Hurricane Helene? 
The second question on that is, what capabilities do you 
foresee drones being equipped with in future disaster 
responses, and how might this expand the future missions of 
drones in emergency response situations?
    Mr. Farrell. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    So the coordination is one where, especially in Region 4, 
we're very fortunate on the remote sensing side to have a 
collaborative collection plan that's really a model that 
doesn't exist in any of the other regions currently. So our 
partnership with Region 4 stemmed out of work that's gone back 
about 8 years with NOAA to assess flood mapping and monitoring 
missions through our NOAA cooperative, the Northern Gulf 
Institute, and our Geosystems Research Institute.
    The FEMA Region 4 took notice of the large UAS operations 
and reached out through that Federal collaboration to begin 
investigating the opportunity for a large UAS to engage in 
these kinds of disasters, given the broad-area-type 
surveillance that we can be able to provide and that endurance.
    So we begin doing blue sky exercises through Project 
JUSTICE to really illustrate that integration into the FEMA 
operation. So when a storm, especially around hurricanes, 
begins posing its threat to our region, the collaborative 
collection plan is put in place. The region coordinates with 
all of the stakeholders, including the State and local 
emergency management agencies, to understand what their needs 
are.
    FEMA will reach out to us, and then we will preposition as 
best as possible to be able to respond. As we get in, we on 
daily calls talk about areas and targets and interests for 
ingress, egress, damage assessment, search and rescue. Then we 
will get mission assigned and broadcast out as we collect the 
information necessary. Because we're doing this in a live 
fashion--we're actually doing it through a distributed Teams 
call with our pilots--they can reassign us as needed while 
we're in the air.
    As far as capabilities and the future for this mission, I 
think that--you know, we had the conversation about autonomy--
autonomy is going to play a large role, whether that's thrown 
in the box or greater capabilities around sensors, greater 
capabilities around platforms, more ubiquitous-type platforms 
in this type of disaster response.
    One of the things we're doing is doing assured safe 
training to actually train first responders in these kinds of 
missions; understand the air space management that exists and 
do the training for air space managers, your Air Boss, if you 
will. Then what we also want to do is work with our State and 
locals to be able to enhance their preparedness and understand 
what the constructs are and what contracts and what kind of 
needs need to be in place so that, at least in Mississippi on 
our land grant mission, we can prepare our community for 
response from kind-of a grassroots perspective.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you.
    I'm just going to finish up with Chief Fetterman. It's 
clear that drones will play a pivotal role in assisting 
disaster responses. What strategies have been used on the West 
Coast to integrate drones into wildfire responses, and how have 
they improved coordination between the Federal, State, and 
local responders?
    Chief Fetterman. Well, certainly creating situational 
awareness integrates information flow between local, State, and 
Federal responders and certainly on incident management teams. 
So drones provide that increased situational awareness, and 
they're a great tool to utilize on those kinds of events. 
Certainly, air space deconfliction is a priority to us. Drones 
and helicopters can't operate in the same space and time. So 
we're looking forward to additional AI technology that will 
allow that to better manage the air space.
    Mrs. Biggs. Thank you so much. Thank you all for being here 
today.
    Mr. Guest. I'll now recognize the gentlelady from Illinois, 
Mrs. Ramirez, for her 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairs and Ranking Members.
    I'm not sure if the title of these hearings are 
purposefully ironic or simply unfortunate coincidence from my 
Republican colleagues' boss. Unmanned is at the heart of 
President Musk's technologically-driven future world vision. 
Given his devotees in the room, it makes sense that we're not 
talking about the human casualties in DOGE's mass firings but 
the bots he wants to take their place.
    Don't get me wrong. I recognize that drones and other 
innovative technologies are critical tools to assist in 
disaster and emergency response, but I can't ignore the 
elephant in the room. Innovative technology should be 
assistive, supporting the work of emergency responders.
    Another place President Musk and I disagree is that bots 
assist humans, they don't replace them. People, both emergency 
responders and FEMA professionals, they're at the heart of our 
disaster response work across the country. But we know that 
President Musk doesn't believe people are at the heart of our 
disaster response work. He actually believes that machines can 
work better without the human messiness of debate, of 
oversight, of history, of reasoning, you know, some of the same 
building blocks that create democracy, I might point out.
    So it's deeply frustrating for me to see my colleagues go 
along with Musk's unmanned world view, robbing first responders 
of the basic resources they need to do their jobs, dismantling 
FEMA, and also allowing DHS to withhold the funds that this 
House appropriated which, by the way, is a violation of Federal 
law, and a clear failure of the Majority to provide appropriate 
oversight, the job that we have in this committee. But here we 
are.
    So I want to get into the questions. Chief Fetterman, yes 
or no, is it helpful to first responders, like our 
firefighters, when Federal agencies like FEMA cannot provide 
grants for local cities, counties, and other communities to 
prepare for and attend to natural disasters? Yes or no?
    Chief Fetterman. Congresswoman Ramirez, no, it is not 
helpful.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you. Chief Fetterman, I have another 
question for you. Yes or no, does it help firefighters when the 
Federal Government guts initiatives for research and new 
technologies that assist first responders in doing their job 
safer and more effectively?
    Chief Fetterman. No, it is not, ma'am.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you. Pivoting slightly. We know that 
some of these new technologies and bots that Elon loves so much 
has some bias and some privacy problems, just like him. In 
2024, the Government Accountability Office, GAO, found drones 
can support law enforcement. However, the use of those 
technologies in public spaces where a warrant is not 
necessarily required prior to use has led us with concerns 
about how law enforcement is ensuring that we're protecting 
civil rights, civil liberties, and privacy.
    Given that President Musk and Trump and his loyal follower 
Noem have gutted the Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, CRCL, 
Division at DHS which was tasked with preventing civil rights 
and liberty violations in the agency's work, I want to ask all 
of our witnesses here, how do your programs either offer 
capabilities or take steps to protect sensitive information 
acquired by the use of drones? I'll start with Mr. Farrell.
    Mr. Farrell. Yes, thank you. So I think when we develop 
these technologies, we definitely want to make sure that the 
information is safeguarded. I think, moreover, one step that 
we're taking specifically at Raspet is coordinating with the 
Ole Miss law program. So there's a Drone and Space Law program. 
I had an opportunity to guest lecture last Tuesday. One of the 
key initiatives that we were discussing was drone privacy, 
drone usage, admissibility in courts, as well as the 
safeguarding on that data.
    So one thing that we are really focused on is not only the 
enabling capability, the mitigating on the countering the 
threat, but also, how do you employ it in a way that's best to 
protect civil liberties for those operators?
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you for all that, Mr. Farrell.
    I want to get to the rest of you, so you have like 5 or 7 
seconds, but Dr. Ledbetter.
    Mr. Ledbetter. Yes, ma'am, thank you. The Army is our 
customer. We're bound by their cybersecurity and data 
requirements, and we're in compliance with them.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you. Mr. Hendrix.
    Mr. Hendrix. Yes. No social media location revealed and 
existing data, once a determination is made--[inaudible] for 
research to continue--I mean for search-and-rescue to continue, 
it's eliminated.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you. Chief Fetterman.
    Chief Fetterman. The fire service goes to great lengths to 
protect private information, but our priority is life safety. 
We focus on life safety and saving lives and property.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina, 
Mr. Knott, for his 5 minutes of questioning.
    Mr. Knott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses who are here.
    I will say that I am a little bit miffed whenever I hear 
grievances about the current President and the funding that 
seems to be at issue. When you look at sanctuary cities, 
sanctuary States, and the amount of tax dollars that are going 
to illegal immigrants and States just like Illinois, New York 
City, California, et cetera, where illegals, we now know, were 
getting free health care, free education, free transportation, 
these allocations in dollars far exceed the total budget of 
FEMA. So I find it a little bit disingenuous that we're railing 
on money that should otherwise be reappropriated or 
reallocated.
    Mrs. Ramirez. Mr. Knott, will the gentleman yield?
    Mr. Knott. No, ma'am.
    When we have had 4 years of draining billions and billions 
and billions of dollars to people who are not here illegally, 
crocodile tears over FEMA not having enough money seems to be 
somewhat disingenuous.
    In regards to the issue at hand that we should be 
discussing, I would love to ask you, Mr. Hendrix, as a former 
Federal prosecutor, drones are being used to a very effective 
extent to undermine law enforcement and, truly, our national 
security, whether it's the cartels, whether it's local 
transnational gangs, whether it's the Chinese Communist Party, 
whoever it may be, drones are a force multiplier. One of my 
greatest frustrations, whether it was the Bureau of Prisons, 
whether it was Federal law enforcement along the border, 
whether it was counter-surveillance measures that were being 
executed, what are technologies that we can implement and we 
can provide or promote that would stop criminals from using 
drones so effectively?
    Mr. Hendrix. There are some technologies that allow us to 
establish right world operations to eliminate aircraft from 
operating in the area. Of course, the threat has evolved so 
that now they're just flying aircraft on fiber optic cables, 
right. So it's hard to do that.
    Another thing I think is important from our standpoint is 
to look at what things we can do to enforce our capabilities so 
that they're not vulnerable to these technologies. Our counter-
UAS systems, for example, should be tested to certify threats 
by an independent agent based on a particular scenario that 
you're trying to protect.
    Mr. Knott. OK. Can you explain just briefly how that would 
work in the field? How would that technology be best 
implemented?
    Mr. Hendrix. So the right world technologies, for example, 
as you identify your particular aircraft that's going to be 
operating, you could look at it as comparable to, roughly, 
comparably remote ID or to UAS traffic management. You identify 
those aircraft that are operating in the area of any other 
aircraft that's reported or detected by radar, so certainly 
uncooperatives.
    Mr. Knott. OK. Thank you, sir.
    Dr. Ledbetter, I want to talk to you. In regards to the 
components that go into many drones that we use in a law 
enforcement capacity and a first responder capacity, it's my 
understanding that many of those components are made in other 
countries, whether it's China, whether it's other nation-
states. Are you familiar with the basic percentage of our 
components that are put into American drones that are made in 
China or other countries?
    Mr. Ledbetter. I'm not familiar with that number, sir.
    Mr. Knott. Are you familiar--is it a problem that you're 
aware of?
    Mr. Ledbetter. It is a problem, yes, sir.
    Mr. Knott. How would you quantify--briefly, we've got a 
minute-and-a-half--from your expertise, how can we assist 
bringing some of those jobs and technologies back to the United 
States for manufacturing?
    Mr. Ledbetter. Well, it's absolutely critical. I find that 
most, whether it's first responders, military members, 
whatever, they want to get the job done and they'll get the job 
done. Right now the cheapest, most available resource out there 
is going to be a DJI, which is a Chinese product. We need to 
comply with NDAA and bring those parts back into the United 
States and build a compliant American-made drone.
    Did I answer your question?
    Mr. Knott. It did, but in regards, I guess--to follow up, 
in regards to what we can do in this committee, are there 
certain regulations, rules, laws that make it more costly for 
drone manufacturers to operate or to produce their materials 
here as opposed to overseas, that you're aware of?
    Mr. Ledbetter. Absolutely. Supply chain is--you know, we're 
hamstrung by the supply chain to get parts. Availability is 
another issue, and then price. We're looking at anywhere from 3 
to 5 times the cost per part to make an American-made drone 
versus a DJI, or a Chinese part.
    Mr. Knott. In regards to the technology as you understand 
it, how are American companies, how are American innovators 
fairing as it relates to international competitors?
    Mr. Ledbetter. I don't really have that data. I know as far 
as we're concerned, it takes significantly more money and more 
resources and more time to build a compliant drone versus a 
noncompliant drone.
    Mr. Knott. One more question. When you say compliant drone, 
just so we understand, what are you referring to?
    Mr. Ledbetter. NDAA compliance.
    Mr. Knott. OK. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Guest. Thank you.
    In closing, I would like to thank all of our witnesses for 
their valuable testimony. I would like to thank Chairman 
Strong, Ranking Member Correa, Ranking Member Kennedy, and all 
of the Members for their participation in today's hearing.
    The Members of the subcommittees may have additional 
questions for the witnesses and we would ask the witnesses to 
respond to these questions in writing.
    Pursuant to committee rule VII(E), the hearing record will 
be held open for 10 days.
    Without objection, the subcommittees stand adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:03 p.m., the subcommittees adjourned.]

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