[House Hearing, 119 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
STRENGTHENING THE TRANSITION
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM: EXPLORING
OUTCOMES TO IMPROVE THE
TRANSITION TO CIVILIAN LIFE
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINETEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
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TUESDAY, JUNE 24, 2025
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Serial No. 119-27
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
61-166 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas DELIA RAMIREZ, Illinois
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas TIMOTHY M. KENNEDY, New York
JEN KIGGANS, Virginia MAXINE DEXTER, Oregon
ABE HAMADEH, Arizona HERB CONAWAY, New Jersey
KIMBERLYN KING-HINDS, Northern KELLY MORRISON, Minnesota
Mariana Islands
TOM BARRETT, Michigan
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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TUESDAY, JUNE 24, 2025
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Mike Bost, Chairman................................ 1
The Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member........................ 3
WITNESSES
Panel I
Mr. Manish Gupta, Chief Technology Officer, Combined Arms........ 6
Mr. Ross Dickman, Chief Executive Officer, Hire Heroes USA....... 7
Mr. Joseph Loomis, Founder and Chief Executive Officer,
TurboVets, Inc................................................. 9
Ms. Rebecca Burgess, Senior Fellow, Yorktown Institute........... 10
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Mr. Manish Gupta Prepared Statement.............................. 41
Mr. Ross Dickman Prepared Statement.............................. 42
Mr. Joseph Loomis Prepared Statement............................. 46
Ms. Rebecca Burgess Prepared Statement........................... 47
Statements For The Record
Schultz Family Foundation Prepared Statement..................... 53
Blue Star Families Prepared Statement............................ 55
Document for the Record Submitted by The Honorable Derrick Van
Orden, U.S. House of Representatives, (WI-3)................... 61
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and U.S. Department of
Defense Memorandum of Understanding............................ 63
Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness at Penn State
(Clearinghouse) Prepared Statements............................ 66
STRENGTHENING THE TRANSITION
ASSISTANCE PROGRAM: EXPLORING OUTCOMES TO IMPROVE THE
TRANSITION TO CIVILIAN LIFE
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TUESDAY, JUNE 24, 2025
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Bost
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Bost, Mace, Miller-Meeks, Murphy,
Van Orden, Luttrell, Ciscomani, Kiggans, Hamadeh, King-Hinds,
Takano, Brownley, Pappas, Cherfilus-McCormick, McGarvey,
Ramirez, Budzinski, Kennedy, and Conaway.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE BOST, CHAIRMAN
The Chairman. The Committee will come to order, and without
objection, the chair may declare recess at any time. Good
morning, everyone, and thank you for being here. I want to
thank the witnesses for being here. Now, before we begin, I
want to take a moment to pause and think about the service
members stationed throughout the Middle East right now. I,
along with some of our colleagues, just returned from a visit
with our service members that were deployed overseas in Spain.
Whenever I met with these men and women, and I always return
home with the assurance that one, we have the best and most
capable military in the world. Two, the people that do that are
some of the best people in the world. While we were in Spain,
we were going to visit and see the destroyers that were located
there. They had all shipped out.
Matter of fact, one of them, it reminded me of what it was
like to be a young person in the military. There at the
reception area in the airport was a volunteer and she and her
husband had just, this was their first duty station in Spain. I
came, we came in and her husband, when they deploy those
cruisers, normally it is about 4 months to 4 and a half months
out. Her husband had came back in and 48 hours went right back
out. She was learning what it was like to be a military spouse
as well as him understanding what it was like to be and be in
the military. If we want to, if you would just remember them
all in your prayers and make sure that you ask for the Lord to
keep them all safe no matter what their duty is. Today we are
going to focus on the importance of the TAP, our Transition
Assistant Program, or TAP, and broader themes of service
members transition experience. A service member's transition
begins during the last year of their active duty.
During TAP, a service member is required to go to classes
hosted by U.S. Department of Defense (DoD), U.S. Department of
Labor (DOL) and U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). The
goal of TAP is to set each service member up for success in
civilian life, regardless of their role in the military. Now
that means whether you are a young corporal or three-star
general, TAP should offer the personalized assistance service
members need to thrive. My staff knows that I was make this
statement and I will make it again now. It is in my--in my
script here, but I am going to add a little to it. You know,
when I was a Marine when, and I went through, there was a TAP
program and the TAP program was whenever the colonel tapped you
on the shoulder and said, ``Goodbye, have a great life.'' The
other TAP program was when you got with your buddies the last
time and you hit the TAP at the bar. Other than that, that was
the TAP programs that were available. However, thanks to former
members of this Committee and this Committee as a whole, we
have done a lot of work to make the program mandatory and
improve outcomes to find what works for our veterans. This is
not to say there is still that progress does not still need to
be made.
Matter of fact, a lot of progress still needs to be made.
Even after significant legislation, only 52 percent of service
members meet the 1-year TAP timeline requirements. I believe
that 52 should not be counted as a success but as a failure.
Additionally, research from Pennsylvania State University
Veterans Metric Initiative shows that more than 60 percent of
veterans are either unemployed or underemployed. In many cases
this is due to poor transition. Finally, nearly 20 percent of
veterans do not feel like they are fully transitioned until 6
years after leaving the military service. I also believe we
must view TAP and transition as a vitally important to all
volunteer forces (AVF).
An unsuccessful transition can impact public view of how we
treat our military members, which can impact our Nation's
security by the fact that in all voluntary service people are
not encouraged to volunteer. Clearly there is more work to be
done by this Committee and by the community to fill the gaps.
In front of us today are innovators in the transition
community. These groups have unique programs and forward-
thinking technologies that have helped make thousands of
service members transition to veteran status better. Now,
without these organizations, veterans will continue to slip
through the cracks and VA will always be playing catch up to
get these veterans back in the groove of civilian life. Under
President Trump leadership, I know we are going to put you the
veterans VA services back at the center of the VA mission, and
I hope to hear from these groups about the broader solution
that Congress can take back and get legislation that will boost
our TAP program. Many of these themes are already included in
my friend Subcommittee Chairman Derrick Van Orden's Bill H.R.
3387.
With that I want to welcome the witnesses and look forward
to your testimony. I now recognize the Ranking Member Takano
for his opening ceremony, opening statement.
Mr. Takano. I have not done opening ceremonies in a while.
The Chairman. If you want to do them, go ahead.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Takano. Thank you Chairman Bost. I appreciate your
opening comments about keeping our service members in our
thoughts and prayers. I would ask that all here and all who are
watching the hearing keep my committee staffers who are service
members who are currently deployed. Chris Bennett, he is
actually saw and witnessed the Qatar bombing. I believe he is
in Qatar. Matt Reill is in the theater. I am not exactly sure
where he is, my staff director. I appreciate your sentiment,
Mr. Chairman.
I appreciate this committee's continued focus on service
member transition. The period of transition is oftentimes the
hardest period for veterans to navigate. This committee was the
driving force behind the 2019 National Defense Authorization
Act's (NDAA) improvements to the Transition Assistance Program,
or TAP. The improvements included offering transitioning
service members more tailored courses and information. However,
much of that law is still not implemented, and many more
improvements are needed to make sure veterans leave the
military with a job, a plan for their education, or whatever
resources they need for a smooth transition. Failure to do so
can have catastrophic results. Studies continue to find
correlations between difficulties in transition and suicides.
The more difficulty a service member has during their
transition period, the more likely they are to have suicidal
ideations. If this administration is serious about reducing
veteran suicide rates, it is critical we get the period of
transition right.
This Committee has treated transition with the seriousness
it deserves, having held 7 hearings at the subcommittee level
or full committee level over the last 5 years. However, the
Veterans Affairs Committee is only one part of the story, which
also includes the Armed Services Committee as well as the
Department of Defense and Veterans Affairs. Over the same 5
years, our counterparts on the House Armed Services Committee
have yet to hold a similar hearing.
However, because of where transition was originally written
into Federal code, our committee only has secondary referral
and jurisdiction of this topic. As we see from the witnesses
before us, none of the Federal agencies responsible for a
transition is before us. In fact, I ask that the secretary of
defense or his designee to testify before us today. Last week,
the Department of Defense abruptly refused to participate in
this hearing after previously committing to appear. This
cancellation came just days after Secretary Collins and
Secretary Hegseth signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU)
titled ``Strengthening Our Partnership to Those Who Serve,'' a
memo that was not provided to the committee, but rather we
received from our Veterans Service Organization (VSO) partners.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that this MOU be included
in the hearing record.
The Chairman. Without objection.
Mr. Takano. Now, this hearing would have been a perfect
opportunity for DoD and VA to present to the Committee how
their proposal to collaborate on sharing healthcare resources
will work and to provide us with the details on how they plan
to address VA enrollment during transition. Now, I have been
working for years to pass my legislation, the Ensuring
Veterans' Smooth Transition (EVEST) Act, which would charge VA
health care enrollment from an opt in, excuse me, would
change--which would change VA health care enrollment from an
opt in process to an opt out, meaning you are automatically
enrolled in VA when you transition out of the military. Now, if
the MOU is to be believed, the administration shares this view
and I would like to hear more. It is just too bad they are not
here. Finally, if DoD was here, we could learn how it plans to
identify transitioning service members who may be at higher
risk from mental health challenges.
Now, it is impossible to mention DoD's absence and not
think about the unconstitutional airstrikes in Iran ordered by
President Trump over the weekend. Congress was not provided any
justification for these strikes. Congress did not vote on an
authorization of military force. The public only learned about
the strikes from president's--from the president's personally
owned, failing niche social network website. This Congress is
choosing to give up its responsibility as a co-equal branch of
government and that will have grave consequences. We are in the
middle of an unprecedented constitutional crisis. There are no
Federal agencies here before us from which to demand
accountability. What disservice are we doing to service members
at this moment when they are called upon to this--in this
unprecedented and dangerous time? How can we respond to the
transition needs as the economy continues to spiral and we face
massive threats to the programs and services on which service
members and veterans and their families depend? None of our
agency partners found it worth their time to come today, and my
Republican colleagues do not think it worthwhile to invite
them. Where does that leave us? We are left holding a hearing
on a legally mandated program that our committee lacks primary
jurisdiction of. I appreciate the witnesses that are here today
to share their work. Servicemembers and veterans should not be
left depending on charitable donations to foundations for their
post separation needs, nor should they depend on the for-profit
industry to navigate their earned benefits.
Unfortunately, the lack of participation of the Trump
Department of Defense, the Trump Labor Department of Labor, and
the Trump VA is indicative of the goal of this administration.
Hollowing out Federal agencies, firing workers, and shifting
responsibility of the mission of VA and DoD onto individual
veterans where nonprofit entities are squeezed and overwhelmed
and where claim sharks and scammers rush in to take advantage.
Now, this is unacceptable, and this committee should not stand
by and accept playing second fiddle on this issue. We certainly
should not accept a hearing on a Federal program without the
responsible Federal agencies being present. Failures at
transition become responsibilities for VA, VSOs, and other
stakeholders. Solving a crisis is always more expensive and
less successful than preventing one. For example, preventing
homelessness with supportive housing costs 1/3 of what it does
to house a chronically homeless person. Investing in quality
education instead of allowing for profit predatory schools to
recruit veterans would save the Federal Government and veterans
billions of dollars in wasted GI Bill benefits. Translating
career skills gained during military service into quality
employment would save tens of millions of dollars in
unemployment benefits paid by the Department of Defense. Now,
these are goals I believe every member of this committee agrees
with. I put it to my colleagues, does this Committee deserve
better than being ignored by DoD? Does this Committee deserve
better than being ignored by DoD on such a critical issue like
transition? Mr. Chairman, DoD's absence is unacceptable, and I
ask you to join me in delivering that message. I also ask you
to join me in petitioning our respective leadership about
updating House rules to put the responsibility of transition
where it belongs, with the House Veterans Affairs Committee,
our committee.
With that, I yield back.
The Chairman. Before we go on to the witnesses, you know, I
want to say I find it funny now that the Republicans are in the
White House. Suddenly there is a concern that the Secretary of
Defense and the Department of Defense is not available for
hearings. Under Secretary Lloyd Austin and the Biden
administration, DoD had the reputation of not showing up for
hearings at all. If the ranking member did not have issue with
the last Congress, I do not see the ranking member should have
issue at this time. The Congress, under President Trump's
leadership and department, has already been to two economic
opportunities subcommittee hearings. To me, that seems like a
partisan exercise that wanted to get real with the answers from
DoD and responding like that. I also find it surprising that
the ranking members should bring up this, frankly, when the
secretary right now has pretty big issues in the Middle East.
We both agree that we need to pray for those men and women,
because we talked about that. I do also find it funny now that
with the Republicans in the White House, suddenly there is a
concern for our colleagues about how VA is being run. During
the Obama administration, VA grew considerably. This is not
only from the number of veterans, but from the programs being
created and reformed to by the Congress and the administration.
During those 8 years, the Obama administration dropped over
92,000 bombs in the Middle East. Now, after one strike, to
prevent an adversary from having nuclear weapons, some people
in this room think VA should halt any changes to making the
agency work better or believe that VA needs additional
bureaucracy. That is ridiculous. If there is a conflict in the
Middle East, veterans will need VA working for them instead of
bureaucracy more than ever. That is why over 75 million
Americans elected President Trump. That is also exactly why
what Secretary Collins has appointed, why he is been appointed
by the president, and what his intention is, is to do the job
of the VA for our veterans as they--and now we want to talk
about why they are transitioning and how they are transitioning
and how we make that better.
Testifying before us we have Mr. Manish Gupta, chief
technical officer at Combined Arms, Mr. Ross Dickman, chief
executive officer (CEO) of Hire Heroes USA, Mr. Joseph Loomis,
founder and chief executive officer of TurboVets, and Ms.
Rebecca Burgess, senior fellow at Yorktown Institute.
Will the witnesses please stand and raise their right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth?
[Witnesses sworn.]
The Chairman. Thank you. Let the record reflect that the
witnesses answered in the affirmative. You may be seated.
I now ask Mr. Gupta for 5-minute opening testimony, if you
please.
STATEMENT OF MANISH GUPTA
Mr. Gupta. Chairman, Ranking Member and distinguished
members of the committee, thank you for inviting Combined Arms
to testify and for your unwavering commitment to our veterans.
Combined Arms is a nonprofit technology company that
empowers veterans and military families with access to vetted
veteran sources service organizations through our innovative
Software as a Service (SaaS) platform. As the chief technology
officer of Combined Arms, I lead a network that harnesses
advanced technology to strengthen veterans' transitions. Our
platform spans all 50 states, integrating 650 vetted
organizations that provide over 1500 available social services
including housing, job, healthcare services and more. When
joining Combined Arms, veterans complete secure profiles
detailing service history, skills, and wellness needs, enabling
personalized support pathways to match them to resources.
Veterans are able to select services such as job training or
mental health support using filters by location and category.
We also provide real time analytics that tracks delivery and
accountability of services. Our pilot with United Service
Organization (USO) will engage with active duty 18 months pre-
separation. Our innovative data strategies streamlined access
to essential help, delivering an Amazon shopping cart style
approach to navigate social services.
We are proud to serve over 85,000 veterans and military
families across the country, connecting them to thousands of
social services. The Transition Assistance Program or TAP,
which is a result of interagency partnership across the Federal
Government, provides information, tools and training to ensure
service members and their families are prepared to enter the
civilian life. TAP is a vital bridge to connecting veterans to
civilian resources. With enhanced collaboration from Department
of Defense, Veteran Affairs and Labor, Combined Arms platform
could serve as a force multiplier for TAP.
Our closed loop data powered digital marketplace can
significantly enhance TAP's ability to deliver seamless
personalized support to service members. For example, DOD
collaboration could provide early service data along TAP to
tailor pre-separation career and benefit plans. VA integration
could accelerate benefit access, linking veterans to health
care and or education support. Dual partnerships could enhance
job pipelines, integrating programs like SkillBridge to boost
employment outcomes. Our platform is equipped with provider
interfaces featuring case management, interagency referrals,
digitized forms, and Americans Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA)
508 compliance, and has been endorsed by the VA and George W.
Bush Institute. We recommend standardized VA liaisons, flexible
policies for community innovations like mentorship and national
community of practice.
Our digital hub could enable TAP stakeholders to share best
practices leveraging over 220,000 strong audience reach to
drive continuous improvement. Our platform can strengthen TAP's
outcome measurements, employment, mental health and civilian
satisfaction. We provide advanced analytics which facilitate
over 14,000 careers placements since 2020 and layer client data
with public metrics to generate county level heat maps
identifying service gaps in rural or unserved areas.
With DoD, VA and DOL data sharing, TAP could accommodate
resources, track long-term well-being, ensuring adaptability to
veterans evolving needs and as recognized by the VA. These
analytics empower data driven decisions optimizing TAP's
effectiveness across diverse Western communities. To realize
this vision, Combined Arms recommends Congress fund technology
integration with TAP platform leveraging VA systems for cost
efficient personalized support Enhanced VA led task force to
standardize collaboration and integration private sector
networks and support pilot programs to test these solutions
with metrics tracking employment and well-being.
In conclusion, with robust D0D, VA, and DOL collaboration,
Combined Arms platforms could serve as a force multiplier for
TAP, revolutionizing veteran transitions through technology. We
stand ready to partner with this committee and stakeholders to
build a future where every service member thrives. Thank you
and I welcome your questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Manish Gupta Appears In The
Appendix]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Gupta. Mr. Dickman, you are
recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF ROSS DICKMAN
Mr. Dickman. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano and
members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify on improving outcomes for veterans and transitioning
service members. I am Ross Dickman, CEO of Hire Heroes USA, the
Nation's leading nonprofit focused on veterans and military
spouse employment. We serve over 25,000 clients every year,
primarily transitioning service members, veterans, and members
of the Guard and Reserve, offering personalized one-on-one
support to help them achieve meaningful and lasting careers
after service. The transition from military to civilian life is
more than a single moment. It is a process, one that can take
years and looks different for everyone. Multiple factors
contribute to the transition and the unique circumstances
surrounding a service member's experience. Though rank often
serves as a key indicator of success. The American Enterprise
Institute's April 2025 report spotlighted that junior enlisted
veterans face the most challenges post service, including high
unemployment, poor economic outcomes and low utilization of
existing services.
This highlights a clear need we must move beyond a one size
fits all approach to one that is responsive to the different
experiences, challenges, and goals of each veteran. While
helpful for broad awareness and education of benefits, the
Transition Assistance Program's current structure is not
optimal for individualized employment success. Last year's
Research and Development (RAND) report and a similar U.S.
Government Accountability Office (GAO) report a year earlier
determined that nonprofit organizations fill a critical gap to
supplement Federal transition programs. Of the $13 billion the
government spends annually to support transition services,
approximately 97 percent of funds are spent on education,
despite career support being the number one requested service.
Allow me to offer three areas of concern that deserve
congressional action.
First, outcomes must matter more than outputs. Success
cannot be measured solely by TAP course completion or number of
attendees. Many veterans are underemployed in roles that do not
reflect their skills, experience, or leadership potential.
Sixty-one percent of veterans report underemployment 3 years
post-separation, and that number barely budges after 6 years.
These numbers signal that we must redefine a successful
transition experience.
Second, skills-based hiring must be elevated and
incentivized. Many veterans possess advanced experience and
leadership capabilities that do not align with traditional
degree requirements but make them highly competitive and
qualified for in demand roles. At Hire Heroes USA, we help
veterans articulate and validate these transferable skills to
employers. Broader adoption of skills-based practices supported
by Federal incentives could dramatically increase access to
meaningful employment.
Third, public-private partnerships are successful and they
work. Federal programs like TAP are foundational, but their
structure limits the level of personalization. That is where
nonprofits like ours come in. As an original partner of the
Department of Labor's Employment Navigator and Partnership
Program, Hire Heroes USA has delivered faster and more
sustainable employment outcomes for thousands of veterans.
These results are made possible by high quality nonprofit
partners who deliver these services at no cost to veterans and
without compensation from the Federal Government. This model is
not sustainable. Based on these concerns, we recommend the
following to improve veteran transition to civilian life.
First, we encourage Congress to prioritize individualized
solutions and Federal transition programs. Concerted efforts
should be made to focus on service delivery during the 2 years
immediately following separation from service and on the
promising practice of skills-based hiring. Second, outcome
measures must align in the public and private sectors. Metrics
like underemployment, skills utilization and long-term
financial security must be part of the equation.
Last, we urge Congress to incentivize long-term sustainable
participation of nonprofits in these programs through
contractual agreements and competitive grants. Private
organizations relying on philanthropic support have mitigated
TAP shortcomings, but declining resources jeopardize the
private sector's continued sustainment of individualized
employment programs. Veterans deserve a transition system that
reflects the realities of today's labor market. One that
empowers them with the tools, guidance, and opportunities to
build the futures they have earned. We look forward to working
with Congress to improve this system to benefit all veterans
and military spouses.
Thank you for the opportunity to be here today and for your
leadership on this issue. I welcome your questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Ross Dickman Appears In The
Appendix]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Dickman. Mr. Loomis, you are
recognized for 5 minutes to open your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH LOOMIS
Mr. Loomis. Chairman Bost, Ranking Members and
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to speak with you. My name is Joseph Loomis. I am
the Navy Veteran and the founder of TurboVets and CEO, a
veteran focused technology company committed to improving how
service members and veterans apply and access all their
benefits and services at no cost for the entirety of their
lives. Over the past 20 years, I have led innovation in
cybersecurity advanced technology, building companies that
solve complex problems and challenges, including systems
integrations in many of the agencies.
At TurboVets, our mission is to close the gap between
policy and technology, ensuring that service members as well as
veterans experience a streamlined, supportive, successful
transition from civilian into civilian life beyond and life
beyond service. The current transition assistance program is
obviously outdated and insufficient in addressing actual needs
of the dynamics of a service member. Despite the efforts of
dedicated agencies, the structure often leaves military service
members without clarity, relevant instruction, support, and
resources.
Like many veterans, I also experienced firsthand challenges
in navigating the maze of the disconnected systems. The process
felt more like death by PowerPoint and the consequences are
much more significant. Today we are seeing a rising rates of
unemployment, financial hardship, mental health crisis,
increased homelessness as well in the veteran community. Most
concerning of all, we continue to lose more than 6,000 veterans
to suicide each year. This is not just a number, it is a call
to action and why my team and I started TurboVets. A problem
that we are solving today with the Department of Veteran
Affairs and the Department of Defense. TAP can be and must be
reimaged into a long-term personalized journey rooted in the
trust and capability and support.
The transformation requires public-private partnership that
integrates technology at every stage of the service members
transition process. It also is more than just briefings. It is
more than just learning and continuous statements that are made
by command leadership. It is tailored tools and podcasts,
relevant video instruction, personal mentorship, transparency
in real time products. We must envision a secure centralized
platform, a true one stop that is similar to the evolution of
technology today, a system that allows online resumes job
building connections to nonprofits like the other witnesses
here today. The platform must seamlessly integrate into
government systems with providing real time data automating
eligibility verifications, eliminating fraud, protecting
veterans from claim sharks and other organizations leveraging
their benefits unbeknownst to their eligibility.
The vision is the foundation upon what we built TurboVets.
It is a veteran led team. We use Artificial Intelligence (AI)
automation system integrations from our previous experiences in
building companies. We are partnered with the agencies in order
to solve this problem together. Technology can no longer be a
luxury anymore. It is a necessity to integrate and exist in the
world today. My team and I, as well as my fellow Americans owe
our veterans not just gratitude, but effective modern solutions
that deliver meaningful outcomes. It is our duty to serve for
those who served us and I have committed my life to partnering
with government agencies to fulfill this responsibility. I am
confident that with the leadership of the VA and DoD and a
collaboration with TurboVets, we will build that outcome and
success we seek today.
Thank you for the opportunity to share this vision. I look
forward to working ahead and the chance to take anyone
questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Loomis Appears In The
Appendix]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Loomis. Ms. Burgess, you are
recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF REBECCA BURGESS
Ms. Burgess. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano and
distinguished members of this committee, for 250 years, every
branch of the U.S. Armed Forces has had one consistent output,
the military veteran. Yet for 250 years, our Nation has never
articulated a national veteran strategy. Not even when we
returned to our voluntary service routes in 1973 do we
recognize the importance of the well transitioned veteran for
the sustained success of the AVF. This failure to ask what it
might take societally to sustain a volunteer professional
military is rooted in the failure to understand there is a life
cycle to military recruitment that both begins and ends with
the veteran. The veteran is the unacknowledged but permanent
Ambassador of national service. How we treat them, talk about
them, legislate about them directly relates to how society
conceptualizes military service. Perhaps we come to this
failure honestly. We have separated our Department of Defense
from our Department of Veteran Affairs. That physical
structural breaking apart has resulted in a mental breaking
apart, especially among those employed in the Defense
Department treating soldiers as national security concerns, but
veterans as vanishing into the ether of someone else's domestic
policy concern.
Our first need then is to recognize that any failed
reintegration of a veteran is a discouragement against joining
the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Space Force, or Coast
Guard. Every successful reintegration is equally an incentive
to join. The several service branches and their secretaries and
DoD at large must be brought to recognize that it has a vested
interest in the successful reintegration of each veteran after
their active or reserve duty is completed. In the Nation having
a coherent, modernized, effective, and efficient suite of
programs and services to make up that transition process. Two
concrete steps to take in this regard are to reestablish the
Chairman's Office of Reintegration, thereby returning DoD
leadership to the transition process while signaling to all
stakeholders that transition outcomes are crucial to the
sustainment of the AVF.
Second, perhaps this step would finally trigger the Armed
Services Committees of both House and Senate to hold joint
hearings with those of Veterans Affairs. Around 200,000 service
members exit the military every year, having access to some
45,000 registered nonprofit veterans service organizations,
numerous VA benefits such as the Post 911 GI Bill, DoD
SkillBridge apprenticeship and immersive career programs, and
corporate hiring initiatives. Most of these services and
programs have come about haphazardly. The result is that the
current institutional framework governing the scope of
challenges affecting veterans remains far too disparate,
reactive, and administratively marginalized. Survey after
survey consistently reveals that the number one source of
stress and anxiety for veterans they themselves identify is
about knowing where and how to navigate these benefits. We know
that transition is both an event and a process taking up to 10
years for some individuals. Generally speaking, the first 90
days are crucial, but the bulk of the reintegrating work occurs
in the initial 2-year period after receiving one's DD 2 and 4.
Those significant numbers of at least post 911 veterans have
felt that they were not entirely fully transitioned at even 6.5
years after service. The Veterans Metrics Initiative have
identified 7 domains that are critical to success in
transition. Employment, education, finances, legal security,
social connections, and physical and mental health.
Furthermore, we know that our junior enlisted women and
minority veterans are facing the steepest post service
challenges, which are exacerbated by low utilization of
existing employment services. Explanations for why include the
current fragmentation of the veteran support system. Further
insight continues to elude us because of a lack of data
transparency and a lack of data about veterans simply. Enhanced
data sharing among the DoD, VA and other entities is essential.
Connecting the VA DoD identity repository data base and
information available from the Social Security Administration
specific to payroll information at the zip code level would go
a far way toward enabling a better delivery of resources
targeted to regions of the country with enduring economic
challenges. The majority of VA programs appear only to measure
outputs rather than outcomes.
This leaves us in the dark about whether the billions of
dollars that are annually allocated for these programs are
accomplishing anything other than smoke signals. Any funding
would therefore be directed to the programs that effectively
improve veteran outcomes and have concrete evidence of the
same. Similarly, neither VA nor Congress have articulated any
key performance indicators to measure key transition goals. The
result is there is no standardized set of outcomes and impact
measures for veterans serving programs. Mandating evidence-
based funding and third-party oversight to ensure alignment
with measurable goals via implementing a Veterans Impact
Dashboard would allow for the tracking of the effectiveness of
any of the investments in support programs for government
delivered and nonprofit and private organizations that receive
Federal dollars.
In conclusion, what we need for an improved transition from
soldier to civilian is not more programs or more money, but
better coordination, data sharing and outcome measurement of
existing programs and initiatives. We are 52 if not 250 years
behind in examining and understanding the dynamics that exist
between our society, our government and our military branches
in order to sustain an entirely volunteer military. Thank you.
[The Prepared Statement Of Rebecca Burgess Appears In The
Appendix]
The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Burgess. I want to say thank
you to all the witnesses and the written statement of all the
witnesses will be entered into the hearing record and we are
now going to go to questions and I recognize myself for 5
minutes.
Mr. Gupta, Combined Arms has over 312 member organizations
and has successfully made 85,000 military connections. What is
the biggest gap you see from the TAP program that transition
service members need from Combined Arms?
Mr. Gupta. Thank you for the question, sir. Combined Arms
focus continues to be supporting the veterans and the military
families and part of the TAP's transition program. The biggest
gap we have seen is the early intervention in making awareness
of how nonprofits programs like ours, platform like Combined
Arms, can support the transition into civilian life,
translating their skills, experiences in a translatable
civilian job profile manner and helping them find the resources
and services they need in a very unified single open-door
policy where they do not have to think or worry what the next
step of support structure might look like.
The Chairman. What feedback have you received from the
companies that hire through Combined Arms? What do you hear
from them that they need when hiring veterans?
Mr. Gupta. Veterans have identified the corporate structure
lacks the awareness and the discipline to guide the transition
to civilian in terms of translation of their benefits offered
by the government and available to them through their GI bills.
That is the biggest gap in the overall administration on how
they move forward and receive the resources and the care they
need.
The Chairman. Thank you. Ms. Burgess, in one of your
articles you discussed the broken veteran narrative. What can
Congress do to reverse this narrative, especially when it comes
to transition?
Ms. Burgess. Thank you very much for that question. I
believe that actually the tone of congressional legislation can
help us nationally reverse that broken veteran narrative. In
other words, most of our legislation historically has always
taken a kind of victim aspect, looking at the needs and the
wants and the potential hurts of veterans. If we could flip
that narrative, where we are encasing the language in which we
identify bills as veterans, as social assets that need
particular programs that will lift them up rather than social
deficits, I think this could go a very large way toward
changing the veteran narrative at that national level.
The Chairman. I think the frustration that we see with this
committee, and I have expressed it to other members many times
from this committee, and that is the fact that we quite often
always have to deal with what are we going to do to get
physically and mentally straightened out painting a picture
that all veterans are broken and all veterans are not broken.
They are the best employees that you could have. They are going
to show up to work on time. Once you give them a mission set,
they are going to accomplish that mission because that is what
they are used to. We need to focus, I think, more on that, to
make sure that people know and understand that. Do you agree?
Ms. Burgess. Absolutely. If I could add, I think something
we have not looked at nationally is to try and understand
veteran transition. If it is about a 10-year process, how does
that compare to the civilian transition from college and the
identity that you create in college to those first years in the
professional world? We all--we all probably went through it as
a very, you know, unsettling time. What is unique to the
veteran and what is unique, you know, just to young adults
taking on a new--new identity and sense of purpose.
The Chairman. Mr. Dickman, what challenges do junior
enlisted veterans face during transition compared to officers?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question.
Junior enlisted service members face some of the largest
barriers in terms of their relative perceived inexperience,
their overwhelming lack of degrees. Most junior enlisted
service members, almost a 20 percent differential from
civilians, job seekers, do not have a bachelor's degree, which
impacts them in their career search. They also struggle to
connect through like a no wrong door policy into organizations
that can help them with the right coaching to leverage the
experience they do have them in the military and the skills
that they do have that translate immediately to direct hiring
action. When that is done well and that they are supported from
someone that understands their experience, they do tend to use
more services within our organization. They use about 2.7
services compared to other clients of ours, and they get hired
very well using technical skills, but it takes time to help
them translate that and find the right pathways.
The Chairman. Are there other groups, I mean, obviously the
difference between a junior enlisted and an officer it is just
maturity and everything like that, someone who was in the
military. Are there other unique areas of certain people coming
out with different non skill sets or whatever that we could
look at?
Mr. Dickman. There certainly are, Mr. Chairman. I mean we
look at women veterans have unique struggles as well in terms
of leveraging their experience and networks appropriately. We
also see and do not want to minimize the challenges that
military spouses face in their career search and the impact
that has on the sustainment of the service members
participation as an active-duty service member. Junior
enlisted, from our research we have been doing this for 20
years as far as delivering service interventions, that is the
group that has the had the most consistent struggles in
obtaining equitable employment after service.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. My time has expired and
I now recognize the ranking member.
Mr. Takano. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
Chairman, in your rejoinder, in your remarks about the role of
DoD, I just want to point out that I actually think you
actually made my argument that DoD is not here. The argument is
that they are busy. Even when they are not busy, you know, DoD
has not made transition services a priority regardless of which
party is in control. You know, I would just submit to you that
the energy and the bipartisanship behind ideas to move
transition forward has come from this committee, and we should
not have to do it through the NDAA. I would just request that
you join me in going to our respective leaderships and ask for
this change because I would rather have changes to TAP come
straight from all of us here. I see you nodding, yes.
I am not calling out Pete Hegseth on this particular issue.
I just say, I just think that the talent and the energy from
this committee on a bipartisan basis would be better channeled
if we--if we had the jurisdiction. With that I am going to ask
my question to--first question to Ms. Burgess.
Last month, with no explanation, Congress, VA, and DoD
announced a memorandum of understanding strengthening our
partnership in service to those who serve. While DoD was asked
to attend this hearing to explain this MOU, they declined
testifying. My question for you is regarding the automatic
enrollment into VA healthcare. My legislation EVEST requires
automatic VA enrollment during transition, changing an opt in
to an opt out. How would this shift service members? How would
this shift serve service members and veterans?
Ms. Burgess. Am I understanding you correctly? Your
question is how would it shift the narrative, the public
perception of the veterans?
Mr. Takano. Well, how would this shift to an opt--an opt
out, meaning you are automatically enrolled in VA from an opt
in where you have to go and sign up for VA. How would that, how
would that shift serve service members and veterans?
Ms. Burgess. I think it would help many of the veterans who
are--who assume that they are automatically enrolled. This is a
point of interest maybe to many veterans or to those who serve
veterans. Many veterans do not understand that it is not an
automatic process and it comes as a shock to them. Sometimes
after the process, if they were already automatically enrolled,
it would take out potentially some of the stress of those the
first 90 days or the first 2 years of trying to scramble after
they already need a service and getting into a hole of service.
Mr. Takano. If we have 200,000 veterans a year
transitioning from military and civilian life and they were all
automatically enrolled, that would mean VA could stay in touch
with them, they could make sure that they knew about programs
that VA had to reduce the stressors of that transition. You
know, employment programs, training programs, health programs,
et cetera. It also strikes me that, well, I was going to Mr.
Gupta. Mr. Gupta, the GAO reported on March 2024 that younger
and lower ranked service members and service members facing
unanticipated separations for short notice administrative or
medical separations were experienced a more difficult
transition. What are some of the unique transition challenges
you have observed among these groups of veterans?
Mr. Gupta. The unique challenges across any veteran is the
adaptation and accumulation back to the society with their
basic needs to be met. What we have seen, based on the data
driven strategies and active feedback from our strong member
audience, is navigation of the space. With Combined Arms as a
technology platform which has an open-door policy, what we see
is most veterans are engaged in one aspect of life like job
security, resulting into other opportunities and support
services which they might not have been aware of. Awareness
seems to be a bigger challenge in navigating the space and how
to seek assistance. That is where the platform connects and
reaches out. Mention their basic needs and all life standards
are met.
Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Mr. Chairman, in closing, let
me just say that I had hoped that both secretaries would
communicate more forthrightly with members with such an
important memorandum. Especially I am delighted that both
secretaries are looking at some sort of automatic enrollment
and doing it administratively. I would appreciate if we could
get representatives from both departments to explain how this
memorandum understanding would be implemented, what the details
are, et cetera. Thank you.
The Chairman. Representative Mace, you are recognized for 5
minutes of question.
Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
opportunity to discuss the Transition Assistance Program today.
An important step for our service members as they leave active
duty embark on the next chapter of their lives. We owe our
veterans a seamless path to success after service. For many
service members, the transition from the structure of military
life can be overwhelming. Every individual has different needs
when it comes to leaving service, and the TAP program must
equip every departing veteran with the skills they need to
succeed in civilian life. When TAP succeeds, communities
prosper, local businesses gain skilled employees, colleges
enroll motivated students, and veterans are given the skills
they need to thrive. I am particularly interested in the ways
the Department of Veterans Affairs can leverage technology to
improve TAP, so the bulk of my questions will be related to
that today.
Modernizing TAP through digital platforms and data driven
approaches greatly improves our ability to prepare service
members for civilian life. By embracing technology and
streamlining processes, we can deliver personalized guidance
earlier, monitor outcomes more effectively, and adapt quickly
to evolving needs. A more connected TAP bridges gaps,
simplifies access, and ensures every veteran completes his
journey ready to succeed in their next role in life and
civilian life. Private companies have played an important role
in modernizing and improving the TAP process to better serve
our veterans. My first question is for to you, Mr. Gupta. How
do your services differ from the traditional TAP experience?
Mr. Gupta. Thank you for the question. At Combined Arms, it
is an opt in model and it is a big force multiplier for any
veteran or the family members seeking assistance. Like
previously mentioned, we focus on the care and supporting
sustaining life's healthy thriving models. Regardless of your
needs, using our technology predictive analytic data driven
approach, we analyze the patterns of a given veteran.
Individualized care is provided based on the frequency of the
resource needed or the amount of care needed for that
individual scenario.
Ms. Mace. Can you talk to a little bit about technology
integration to the TAP program to leverage VA systems? How can
you elaborate a little bit more on how that would work?
Mr. Gupta. Given the predictive and data driven
storytelling and overlaying of AI with a data governance and
strict cadence given and only the needed data of a veteran is
shared with the resource agencies, we can establish patterns
and technology pathways to guide and predict the next steps in
a journey of a family care.
Ms. Mace. Is that solely AI driven?
Mr. Gupta. Oh no. AI is just a force multiplier. You can
never replace a human interaction to understand that underlying
cause. Entry point to a resource might be, let us say job or
food assistance, but through the frequency and the nature of
engagement of a veteran and the services they need, AI
predictive models, prescriptive models can help analyze the
pattern and the next best care made available to that veteran.
Ms. Mace. Can you talk to some of the collaboration between
DoD and VA in this model?
Mr. Gupta. Yes, early awareness.
Ms. Mace. Okay.
Mr. Gupta. Right from preparation.
Ms. Mace. How early? When you say early awareness, how do
you define early awareness?
Mr. Gupta. Right from the engagement or the enrollment into
a TAP's program or a class, streamlining the veteran community,
potential community, and tying it back to geographical
locations, the transitions might happen. Balancing that with
the nursing natural resources care facilities in that area,
made available to that veteran can help bridge this gap and
make the transition very smooth.
Ms. Mace. Okay, Mr. Loomis, you got my last minute and a
half. Can you speak to how your digital platform connects
veterans with job opportunities and career guidance?
Mr. Loomis. Yes. Thank you, Congresswoman. More
specifically, I think it has to do with the way the world is
integrated today and becoming more and more integrated. It is
understanding the service members story, what their journey is
like. Everybody's journey is different and that is more
specifically around what their role or their career was in the
military, what their likes and preferences are, where are they
geographically wanting to be located during discharge or their
last destination.
More specifically, what are their objectives, what are
their 5-year goals, what are they looking for in order for job
placement? Then working with--we are more of an integrator
where we integrate with organizations that offer job placement
programs for veterans. More specifically, to the witness to my
right, Mr. Dickman, it is really about enabling the veterans
data to drive what the potential and the possible job
opportunity that sets them up for success. You know, it is not
a matter of just applying for every job that you can. It is
more about what are the top five employment opportunities that
were ideal for me to succeed in my career. That is really the
integration point.
Ms. Mace. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Pappas, I recognize you for 5
minutes.
Mr. Pappas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to you and the
ranking member for holding this session here today on an
important topic, the transition from military to civilian life.
I want to thank our Panel for their contributions to this
conversation. We know that TAP continues to fall short in many
ways. Many service providers members report that the program
feels more like a checkbox rather than a serious investment in
their futures.
60 percent of post 911 veterans report difficulty adjusting
to civilian life. Many relocate to entirely new communities
with little support in finding housing, employment or
structure. Although TAP is a multi-agency effort, I have heard
from far too many veterans who complete the program only to
scramble later in life for answers on benefits, job placement,
and stability for their families. These gaps underscore the
indispensable role of VSOs, nonprofits, and Non-Governmental
Organizations (NGO). Your organizations are often the ones
filling the void offering career prep, benefit navigation, job
placement and much needed support structure along that road. I
wanted to ask you a question, Mr. Dickman.
I appreciated your discussion about measuring outcomes,
about skills-based hiring opportunities and public-private
partnerships. SkillBridge is one program that Congress has
focused its attention on over the last many years. I have seen
the success of this in my district. We know that these
experiences help service members build resumes, gain exposure
to market relevant skills, and in many cases lead to post
service employment with the same organization. In my State,
partners offer opportunities in advanced manufacturing,
aerospace, software development, and even public service roles
with our State Department of Transportation. Congress has taken
steps in recent years to expand an institutionalized
SkillBridge. I am wondering if you have any observations for us
in terms of what is working, what more we can do to modernize
this program for today's workforce? Cut back on red tape and
invite more employers to be a part of it.
Mr. Dickman. Thank you, sir, for the question. Yes, we are
as at Hire Heroes USA, we are not a SkillBridge facilitator. We
are a sort of a upstream preparation for active-duty service
members and military spouses before they compete for a
SkillBridge opportunity. If you think about it, SkillBridge as
an internship model has the same challenges that any other
veteran might encounter. They have to interview for that
internship opportunity. They have to know what their skills
are. They have to know what their value proposition is. They
have to be able to kind of land that internship and perform
well in it.
What we have seen that works really well is when service
members engage in one-on-one coaching with one of our
transition specialists at Hire Heroes USA for skills
development, resume interviewing prep and the ability to
articulate what their goals are. They perform better in their
SkillBridge internship and are more likely to obtain employment
afterwards. What I would encourage to improve that system is
more upstream interventions that are aligned around the time
sequence for what that service member might need to compete
more effectively at that maximum point closer to their
transition when they are eligible for SkillBridge.
Understanding how to articulate and validate their skills in a
way an employer would recognize and use those to make a hiring
decision that can happen upstream and does not need to happen
right at the point of transition when everything's very
stressful for a service member.
Mr. Pappas. I appreciate that and I think that responds to
the statistic you cited, 61 percent of veterans that report
being underemployed once separated from military service.
If I could go to you Ms. Burgess. Question about just the
mental health issue that you cited in your testimony. I am
wondering if you can provide any additional observations on
gaps in the continuum of care from DoD to VA and what steps we
should be taking to address those gaps. You talked about data
sharing and coordination as important priorities. Any other
observations you might have I think are incredibly helpful as
we work to provide the best mental health support we can?
Ms. Burgess. Thank you very much, Congressman, for that
question and the opportunity to elaborate a little bit on that.
I think that one of the most difficult things for Congress when
it comes to mental health of veterans is that you cannot
legislate hope, but you can legislate the things of hope. I
think the things of hope for the transitioning veteran are many
of the things which all of my fellow panelists were speaking
about today. Are the particular programs that are rooted in
especially education, employment, legal services, financial
well-being, but especially what the research continues to show
both in the U.S. and recent studies out of Sweden and out of
the UK show that the sense of identity is the single most
important element of the transitioning veteran. They are losing
a very important identity which is rooted in a public, a very
large sense of service and purpose.
Trying to enable them to return to refine to that sense of
purpose is what each of these programs should be helping them
as one rung up the ladder to be able to do so, enabling them to
connect with these different programs at their own level and as
they need it. This is what gets to that 24-7 model of the
technology, the importance of the technology rather than
thinking about a job fair for the 21st century. Where does a
21-year-old or a 25-year-old go today? They talk to their buddy
or they go online and do a Google search. We need better
immediate touch points, Search Engine Optimization (SEO) that
enable that veteran to find the support services that they need
and that come to them in a way rather than them having to go
out to discover across the board what may or may not work, what
may or may not be in that area.
As someone who has worked and has observed Combined Arms in
the past, to me this is a model that could be scaled because it
brings to the veteran kind of a clearinghouse of here are all
the programs that ask you the questions that you need and you
are able to input what you are looking for and then it spits
back out at you and unscientific language. Here are the
different programs or government agencies that you could be
connected with that could help you and then it makes those
appointments, helps you find those people.
Mr. Pappas. Thanks for your thoughts. I yield back.
The Chairman. Dr. Miller-Meeks, make sure you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much. I really want to
thank Chairman Bost for having this extraordinarily important
hearing. This is something that we hear about. As a 24-year
army veteran who left--who left the service and to your point,
Ms. Burgess, I actually left to pursue education, to go to
medical school. I had hope that there was a career pathway for
me outside of the military. I think how we help assist active
duty to go into the veteran space or into civilian life is
extraordinarily important. There is a ton of questions I would
love to ask, but I now have 4 minutes and 27 seconds.
Mr. Gupta, the recently congressionally mandated report
showed that 52 percent of veterans met the mandated 360-day
timelines for TAP. Do you think service members would be more
prepared for transition if there was accountability to actually
get service members to TAP on time?
Mr. Gupta. Thank you for the question. The accountability
translates in our mind is toward awareness and the benefits and
education. It is not just a matter of just a class, one class
and you are done. It is more of engagement and enrollment and
also outreach to the local community in terms of being
readiness to accept that volume of veterans coming in. It is a
two-way street and has to be coordinated appropriately.
Ms. Miller-Meeks. Yes. Our Governor Brandstad had did that
with an initiative called Homestead Iowa. We have communities
all throughout that prepare to receive veterans and veteran
spouses. In your testimony you mentioned that combining
technology integration into the TAP program to leverage VA
systems would be beneficial. Can you elaborate--elaborate on
how this would practically work?
Mr. Gupta. Yes. Through the transition, the biggest
challenge is adaptation and education and acceptance and
through technology, not only veterans who can be made aware of
social services and community events or any kind of campaigns
going on, but it is also important for the community to be
aware of the veteran's skill set coming in, the hardships they
have gone through and how do we translate a military life to a
civilian life. That partnership really helps.
Ms. Miller-Meeks. I am going to follow up on that with Mr.
Dickman. With over 100,000 successful hires, how does Hire
Heroes USA, what do you do to find opportunities for veterans
and help them stay employed? Do you track attrition rates?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
Actually, probably as we are speaking today, we will pass
110,000 unique service members and military spouses put into
work through our program. The way we work on that is through a
one-on-one personalized care model where a member of our staff
is both their coach, their guide, and at times the
uncomfortable truth teller that a service member might need to
hear about how do they need to leverage their skills and apply
in their job search
Running behind them in the back end that the veteran may or
may not be aware of is a complicated series of both searches,
placement activity and employer engagement systems that are
aligning that skill experience. That we are running searches in
the background based on the experience and data that we have.
We also then tap into forward facing and more active searches
so webinars and engagements directly with employers so they can
build that connective tissue.
We do track attrition and we have seen that when placed
well, veterans stay longer and employers and are promoted
faster. It is that first role that tends to be the most
critical. The challenge point that we see is, especially with
long delay in seeking services and support, is that often
veterans have to make a choice of getting a job now versus
finding that right job where their skills are going to be put
to the best use.
Ms. Miller-Meeks. Mentioning that nonprofits currently bear
a lot of the burden of assisting veterans and transitioning
service members. Mr. Loomis, the veteran post transition
outcome data is lacking and is one of the main reasons it is
been so hard to get government agencies to prioritize TAP. How
can TurboVets help fill this gap?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you Congresswoman for the question. The
priority really comes down to the collaboration and the first
time we are really driving the idea that the DoD and the VA
need to be working together and to integrate this new
technology. There is no way that historically it is been done--
it has always been a very siloed approach where one owned one
version or phase of it and then another agency owned the next
phase. That disconnection really the veteran or the service
member would feel the most. Our collaboration of working with
the Secretary of Defense's office as well as the Secretary of
VA's office more specifically to focus on that integration of
being able to connect their data of what the DoD has for the
service member, integrating that into the job market and then
integrating that also into the veteran status role model. Our
approach is getting the veteran to sign up for VA benefits
automatically with our product. Whether we can get the law and
the acts passed and the policy endorsed in order to make that
happen, we are doing it for them because we want to get the
veterans.
Ms. Miller-Meeks. That is an excellent point. My time has
expired and I yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Budzinski.
Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Chairman,
and thank you, Ranking Member Takano for holding this hearing.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here as well. I am
really glad that this committee is spending time focusing on
that transition period for active-duty military into civilian
life. We do know, and I know it is been mentioned, there have
been a number of improvements made to the TAP program. We also
acknowledge that we still have work to do in this space. I
would share with you, I have heard from my Women Veterans
Advisory Council and recent reports from the Wounded Warrior
Project, Disabled American Veterans (DAV) and others confirm
that women veterans are among the most vulnerable in the
transition process.
I am especially concerned about the mental health
challenges veterans face, obviously during this transition.
That is why I introduced a bipartisan bill, the VA Mental
Health Outreach and Engagement Act with Congressman Edwards,
which would expand VA's outreach to veterans about the mental
health services that are available to them. There is bipartisan
consensus that too many transitioning service members and
recently separated veterans are still falling through the gaps.
Organizations like those represented here today help fill those
gaps by connecting veterans with peer support, career services,
and assistance navigating VA benefits. We are missing the
opportunity today, which is disappointing to hear from the
Department of Defense directly, which is, I understand,
declined to join today's hearing.
It is incumbent upon DoD, in partnership with VA and the
Department of Labor, to ensure that every service member, every
veteran is afforded transition counseling and supports that
they need to flourish in civilian life. The Federal Government
must lead this using key performance indicators and outcome
measures to improve transparency and accountability. During the
previous administration, governmentwide work on navigating the
transition to civilian life produced valuable insights. Now we
must use these insights to take action to reshape the
transition experience, so that it is easier and more tailored
for each service member's individual needs and goals. My
question is for Ms. Burgess.
Your testimony highlights that women, minorities and junior
enlisted veterans face the steepest post service challenges.
You bring up the need for better demographic data to research
and understand this. What would you recommend to reduce those
gaps? Could you also speak to what key performance indicators
would you recommend to access to assess improvement?
Ms. Burgess. Thank you very much, Congresswoman, for your
comments and your question. I think one of the most important
things when it comes to women veterans, again, we suffer so
much in this area from a lack of actual data or access to data.
For those of us who live in the research world and want to
understand this, especially if you do not have a background in
actual military service. The other thing is changing the
narrative about mental health itself. That for a veteran,
accessing mental health care is not about giving yourself a
life sentence. We have completely distorted what happens to a
veteran after their terms of service. In fact, maybe only 10
percent actually experience Post-Traumatic Stress (PTS), where
most transitioning veterans actually experience something
called transition stress. Then there is something else that
many of our special operators especially experience, which is
operator syndrome. All of these have these new. Medical
research has made leaps and bounds about how to address access
these things.
For most of the American public and most of the
transitioning veterans, the idea is that if you seek mental
health, you are acknowledging to yourself that you have this
life sentence ahead of you. Women especially shrink back from
that type of a label for themselves. While we have also found
through some research of just social data bases that women
veterans are frequently the most to express some of their
concerns socially, among social media, they actually are less
frequent to find and actually do something about it for
themselves. That can also just go back to some of the other
support services that, you know, are out there that should be
identified for them because they have a lack of access to
childcare or their caregiver in addition to maybe going to
school. It is identifying which of those other underlying
issues might be there that is preventing them from actually
seeking the health care provider, or is it simply not
understanding that there is an online component that they could
avail themselves of.
That is one aspect and something that could help us
understand whether it is kind of financial and local to a
region versus in general is what I mentioned in my testimony,
which is connecting VA and DoD identity repository data base
with information from the Social Security Administration that
is specific to the payroll at the zip code level. That could
tell us so much information that we could then isolate out even
types of service, whether it is National Guard, which none of
us have mentioned today, about the struggles of National
Guardsmen or women coming back versus reservists, active-duty,
et cetera. That is one idea. Could go on all day, but I will--
--
Ms. Budzinski. That is really wonderful. Thank you, that is
helpful. Would love to hear more of your ideas too after today.
Thank you. Thank you and I will yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Luttrell is recognized by the
Chairman.
Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Ranking Member and Chairman Bost.
You know, we would not have the veteran community if we did not
have DoD, and we would not have DoD if we did not have the
veteran community. You, most of you, the Panel has said it,
there needs to be a relationship between the two. It seems like
it has fallen short or has fallen short. I will just be
brutally honest. It has fallen short.
There is a lot of intangibles, a lot of pitfalls between
there and here when it comes to DoD and the VA. You know, we
need to take a hard look at, and I call them children, but they
are grown men and women, when they enlist in the military,
especially our junior enlisted service members, and they will
come out of high school at 17 years old, 18 years old, spend a
short amount of time or extended period of time in the
military, and then they are kind of cast out into the civilian
population.
Well, there is a lot that happens. If you leave high school
and you go to college and your parents kind of put you in this
position here, you learn how to be an adult. I do not have a
better way to say it, but you have the--nobody's paying for
your--nobody's paying for where you are, you know, when you go
out at night, paying your bills, your car payment, you take
that responsibility. Junior enlisted service members, they are
taught how to walk, talk, shoot, do all the other kind of
stuff. Give them a place to live, give them a place to eat, no
matter what, they are taken care of. Then when their time is
up, here we go, and welcome to the real world. Now, if they are
married with children, if they have a disability, that is a lot
to shoulder the second that you step off that train that is
traveling down the track. When we were talking about transition
assistance and the platform itself and how do we assist these
members there is, I do not know how you, and I do not mean this
in a negative connotation, but how do you teach somebody how to
be a responsible adult in a way that when you are in the
civilian world, when you have not had to do that more or less
when you are in the military, again, because it is provided for
you a lot of times. That is another one of those things that we
are going to have to figure out.
Now, when we are populating the digital footprint in your
organizations, I want to make sure that everybody is
specifically, that we focus on each individual specifically.
Like if my resume or my portfolio is inside the organization
and his is inside the organization, his and I are very similar,
but we are very different people. I am obviously a way better
congressional member than this guy. I was a way better seal at
the time.
Mr. Van Orden. This is not true.
Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Gupta, I heard you speak on the personal
relationships that you have inside your organizations with
those members. Now, I think that we should start transitioning
a member's resume from the time they complete basic training
until the time that they exit the military. That way, when you
are talking to a Marines, like, ``Hey, what did you do?'' The
response from the Marine is, ``Look show me bad man. I take bad
man away.'' You know, that is kind of an infantry Marine's
response. That is their job, and that is their responsibility.
How does that translate into the civilian world? We are
responsible for making that articulation the day that we leave.
Hey, here you go. Thanks for playing. Figure it out.
The communication breakdown in between these organizations
is one of my primary concerns, from start to finish again. Mr.
Loomis, can you--can you kind of walk me through what you think
the best way to have VA and DoD communicate? Again, two very
large organizations that live on different platforms, and this
committee always runs into whomever we are speaking to it is
like we do not talk to each other very well. If we are creating
a digital footprint to assist our veterans, how does that--how
can that work?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you, Congressman. I think, it goes back
to your point about when people join the military and then
having something that they can build a relationship with along
through their journey of military service, including their goal
and their career goal aspirations while they are in the
military. I do believe that the way that we are talking with
the VA and the DoD right now is to build a ecosystem that
essentially allows a service member to understand what benefits
there are in the military and staying in the military, as well
as the benefits of going into civilian life. I think that is
not presented well when it comes to service members when they
are going through TAP, including what pitfalls there are, what
difficulties, what opportunities there are to retain certain
talent to stay in the military.
I think the integration that is going on today between the
DoD and the VA is more around the service member's journey.
What is this service member doing? What are their goals, and
can we match those goals? Can the DoD aid in keeping that
service member enlisted to join and achieve their goals? If
they cannot, then what can the VA do to help that service
member achieve their goals? Whether it is a career in
technology, whether it is owning your own business, going
through the vocational readiness program. I think it is more
about the way that the data is shared, right? The DoD does not
share data with the VA very well, including the service member.
They do not get their DoD data very easily. I think that the
way that the data connectivity is with working with our
platform is to build that career, the service member has their
data with them 24-7, 365 from the day they join the military to
the day they transition to the day that they need any kind of
benefits.
Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
The Chairman. Ms. Brownley.
Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to
each of you for what you do for our Nation's veterans. I am not
sure what our system would look like without you, so I am very,
very grateful. Ms. Burgess, I appreciate how in your testimony
you describe the role veterans play as the unacknowledged, but
permanent Ambassador of national service and how they are
treated after service can have a big impact on public
perception and recruitment for our country's all volunteer
force. Clearly, high quality health care is a solemn promise
that we make to our Nation's veterans. That is certainly why
the VA benefits and service brief during the TAP course is
required and so consequential for transitioning service
members.
I would like, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous
consent to enter into the record an article from the Guardian
published on June 18, 2025 titled, ``VA Hospitals Remove
Politics and Marital Status from Guidelines Protecting Patients
from Discrimination.''
The Chairman. Without objection.
Ms. Brownley. Are you familiar, Ms. Burgess, with the new
medical staff bylaws language discussion in this article that
eliminates the requirement for healthcare professionals to care
for veterans regardless of their politics and marital status?
Ms. Burgess. Unfortunately, I have not kept up quite on
that aspect of.
Ms. Brownley. Okay, all right. Assuming that it is true,
and it is true that the VA has changed the bylaws in their
language, they that would allow the VA medical professionals to
the bylaws at least eliminate the requirement for healthcare
professionals to care for veterans regardless of politics and
marital status. What that really means is it could be that
individual providers could now decline care for patients based
on their personal characteristics or their marital status and
that would not be protected under the law. Do you think a
change like that should be brought to service members attention
during the TAP program, during the VA benefit and service
brief?
Ms. Burgess. I think one of the difficulties is when they
are in those TAP programs, they feel so inundated by
information that it goes in one ear out one ear and they do not
remember any of those particular particulars. I would like to
say while in theory, maybe, when else would they understand
that or be presented with it. In reality, they are not going,
that will be so far down on their list of concerns outside of a
few where their lifestyles might have them particularly attuned
to that type of issue.
Ms. Brownley. I think probably the more important question
is what do you think the impact will be on perception and
recruitment if members leaving the service, transitioning to be
in veteran status now learns that they could be discriminated
against based on their marital status or their political
beliefs by medical professionals within the VA?
Ms. Burgess. I think, again, that will vary by kind of
subsets of culture within the military. Many of those who might
be already concerned about those questions might never think
about joining the military in the first place because they
might see it as not conducive.
Ms. Brownley. Do you think they have the right to be, to
know and understand that they may be denied care?
Ms. Burgess. I am sure we all have every American should
understand their rights in terms of accessing health care. I do
think, though, on the health care side, I will just--I will
yield back right now.
Ms. Brownley. Okay. All right. Well, Mr. Chairman, I bring
this up because I find that this policy is really outrageous
and it is a concern. I mean, it is not just their political
views in one direction or the other. It does not matter in
terms of what your political views are. If a medical
professional believes and does not like that political view, he
or she can deny care. Simple as that.
The Chairman. The Chair--the secretary did give a full
video explaining that that was not the case----
Ms. Brownley. I do not know why they published it in their
bylaws to say that. It----
The Chairman. Just telling you what is the other----
Ms. Brownley. I think it is consistent with the Trump
administration that they are inconsistent in their message
messages. I will just leave it at that. I will--well, it looks
like my time is up, but I will leave it at that. Again, I am
very, very concerned that our Nation's veterans could be denied
care based on their political beliefs and or their marital
status. I will yield back.
The Chairman. Representative King-Hinds, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Ms. King-Hinds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
Member. Thank you to all of you for being here today. I just
wanted to see what the interplay is with regards to your
organizations. Are you in some sort of a data base or a data
bank where a vet, for example, can, going to your point about a
la carte services, is there a one stop shop or a site where, if
I was a vet and I was looking for different options or
different services that are available through nonprofits, is
there a site that I can go where I can pull that information or
resource?
Mr. Gupta. Thank you for that question. At Combined Arms we
have a very vigorous vetting process for all the VSOs. It is at
no charge to the veteran and the organizations will never
charge the veteran. Through full transparency and an open-door
policy, a veteran coming in can reach out to any organization,
seek any resource, and the agencies are under Combined Arms
agreement to help them to the best they can and forward on the
veteran to other agencies without them having to search and
start all over again.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay, did you want to share----
Mr. Dickman. Thank you, Representative for the question.
For example, our organization is one of the vetted
organizations that is partnered with Combined Arms.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay.
Mr. Dickman. If a service member in Texas joins Combined
Arms Network and is curious or needs help with their job
search, their filters would then direct them to us for support
and our one-on-one transition specialist would support that
veteran with their career search. We are only an employment
service delivery organization, so we carry a network of about
1600 referral partners who serve other need areas such as
housing or financial insecurity, food insecurity, any other
area that we have also vetted, and we will refer them to. There
is a variety of open-source websites that attempt to serve as
sort of a catch all index of veteran service organizations, but
with about 45,000 out there, the closest are probably some of
the more tailored lists that stick to the top 100 or 200.
Ms. King-Hinds. Do you service places outside of the
continent of the United States, like the territories? I am from
the Northern Marianas where access to services is very limited.
Is there an opportunity to be able to provide folks with the
resources that you currently provide, whether through online
platforms or whatever other mediums?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you, Representative. Yes, at Hire Heroes
USA we serve any veteran, any service member, any military
spouse. It does not matter when they served, how long they
served, what rank, the constitution of their service or where
they live. Any member of your constituency as long as they
served 1 day in uniform or were married or partnered with a
service member is eligible for our services all through our
web-based platform. Then our online coaching is a distributed
and remote model.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay.
Mr. Gupta. Just to add to that, currently at Combined Arms
we do have active veteran and military family profiles
leveraging the platform from Indian territories and other
states, Puerto Rico, Guam, equally.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay, great.
Mr. Gupta. They--all services available either regionally
or at national level to them.
Ms. King-Hinds. Okay, that is good to hear. Did you want to
chime in?
Mr. Loomis. Yes ma'am. More specifically, we want to talk
about what our focus is unlike the witnesses here is to really
how benefits application process and management goes. We are
more on the benefits and application process for all benefits
across all different services. It could be disability,
vocational readiness, GI Bill, healthcare, even active-duty
service members wanting a VA loan. We are working on automating
the VA loan to lower cost to the service members as well being
very disruptive of how all benefits operate on a single unified
platform.
While we handle all the technology of benefits management,
when it comes to services and support nonprofits, integrations
like working with Hire Heroes or Combined Arms, which we are in
conversations with, is to elevate that there is too much
repetition in the nonprofit and services community. I quite
frankly think it should be combined in order to remove the
redundancy and combine, really do a force multiplier. I also
think that, when it comes to recruitment and how to do
recruitment and how do service members have access to services
that they do not even know they have. Like when you are active-
duty, there is education benefits that you can use for
continuing education that most service members do not know they
have. That is the benefit of putting all the benefits on one
unified platform that we are building.
Ms. King-Hinds. All right, well, may I yield the balance of
my time?
Mr. Gupta. Dr. Conaway, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Conaway. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have listening
intently and I guess where I would start with Ms. Burgess, do
you have a thought or an opinion about how the, the yearlong
educational process on the transition of veterans from the
service works? You know, the data that they provided to us
suggests that, I guess despite this long transition education
there is a low uptake of completion of those services. Do you
have thoughts about how we want to change that process to raise
the number of veterans transitioning from the service, actually
complete the training so that they can successfully transition
from the service?
Ms. Burgess. Yes. Thank you for the question. Though I am
not a specialist in all of the nitty gritty of all the top ins
and outs, I would say one, there is a radical solution that I
would love to put on the table, which is to think of the end of
service with a 30-day leave. You do not just say that you are
going to exit the service and then be gone and then be in
uniform 1 day. Now you have 30 days in which you could really
get through each one of those aspects of reintegrating into
civilian service, as in try and figure out where you are going
to live, where the jobs are that you want to be, et cetera.
The other is that it seems very anecdotally. Again, this is
one of the issues of the data. Much of this is anecdotal from
individual soldiers and those from other branches coming back
telling us that the yearlong, when they start, they forget the
information that they may have received and they forget at
when--at which point in that year it would be the most helpful
to apply some of that, especially regarding enrollment in, say,
VA healthcare type issues. Perhaps, you know, it needs to be
thought of as a more condensed issue at one particular point
rather than over that year. Though, in general----
Mr. Conaway. Thank you. I just want to reclaim my time
because you have answers, I think you will agree have been
quite long. Any comment from the other--other members of the
Panel? Good, because let me move on. I just certainly want to
say that I am concerned about the statistics that 60 percent of
veterans are having difficulty finding employment after 6 and
half years. Clearly we need to do more. I am hopeful that our
committee here in the Congress and other interested Members of
Congress will address that issue.
I do have a concern about privacy in particular. This
question is to Mr. Loomis.
As I understand it, you are leveraging data to help
veterans apply for services and the like. You know, I am a data
privacy legislator. I am very concerned about access by private
entities to personal data and how that might be misused. In
fact, I have introduced the VA Data Act, which would restrict
special government employees from accessing and extracting data
in possession of Veterans Affairs. I am concerned about data.
Could you just describe to me and the Committee how you
access and get access to the data that you are using to help
veterans access the services that you are offering in your
program, Mr. Loomis?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you, Congressman. The data access is
through technology. It is through secure communication between
the VA data base systems and our data base systems. That is
done through a program called Lighthouse. It is a Lighthouse
team that goes through a rigorous program of terms of service.
What is used with that data? The data is never used. It is
never, never repopulated. There is no advertising of the data.
It is never sold to any organization. The veteran owns their
own data. They can delete their own data. They can consent to
the data extraction from the VA in order to apply for benefits
and aid them with it. More specifically, because of my
cybersecurity background, data security is a very big, serious
concern for us as well. More and more importantly, we are
working on hosting the platform inside of the Federal ramp,
which is the government cloud, so that this data is not out in
the commercial marketplace. It is in a protected environment
behind the government infrastructure so that government systems
can securely communicate to each other.
Mr. Conaway. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will
yield back.
The Chairman. Thank you. Mr. Van. Or Representative Van
Orden.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Unfortunately, you
know, I have got a bunch of stuff I want to ask, but I got to
counter what my Democrat colleagues have been saying.
This is a--this is an email from the VA that directly
disputes that bullshit article from The Guardian. I am sorry
for using that profanity, sir. I want this with--I would like
this entered into the record.
The Chairman. Without objection.
Mr. Van Orden. What Ms. Brownley, who I respect
tremendously, said is an absolute flat out lie. We are not
going to take that when--when my Democrat colleagues did decide
to lie like that. It makes people not want to go to the VA and
that increases the risk of suicide, and that is unacceptable.
My Democrat colleagues also have seemed to rail against
President Trump deciding to take out the Iranian nuclear
problem. I do not recall any of them, and many of which were in
Congress when President Obama executed 4 American citizens with
drone strikes. Enough is enough. We should not politicize this.
I am the chairman of the Subcommittee for Echo, or for Economic
Opportunity (EO). I would like to thank Chase, Holly and Ali.
They are my subcommittee staff, so I take personal
responsibility for the TAP program. I do not mean them. I do
not mean this committee. I mean me. The DoD has testified twice
in front of my subcommittee, so maybe they do not like the
folks on the other side of the aisle. They have been here, and
they have showed up and I appreciate that tremendously. I got
to ask some very pointy questions. Mr. Gupta, how much money do
you receive from the Federal Government for your programs?
Mr. Gupta. I am sorry, I do not have the information top of
my hand, but we can get back that to you.
Mr. Van Orden. You received money from the Federal
Government?
Mr. Gupta. We work at a State level.
Mr. Van Orden. You do? Okay, good. Dickman, how about you?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you for the question, Mr. Congressman.
It makes up the smallest portion of our total revenue.
Mr. Van Orden. How much?
Mr. Dickman. It is about 5 percent for Homeless Veterans
Reservation program.
Mr. Van Orden. How much is that give me dollar?
Mr. Dickman. It is less than $700,000.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. How about you, Loomis?
Mr. Loomis. Zero. We are privately funded organizations.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Ms. Burgess.
Ms. Burgess. Zero.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Are you guys familiar with the Muddy
Oaks Warrior Foundation?
You are? Okay. They are the most successful program that
has ever existed to prevent veteran suicide. They receive zero
money from the Federal Government. The answer to my colleagues
on the other side of this dais is not Federal dollars, it is
the application of will. Ma'am, you talked about hope. You want
hope, you are going to find it in faith. You are not going to
find it in a Federal dollar. I just want to bring us all down
to zero and understand that if in fact, we have very, very
successful programs that receive zero money from the Federal
Government, we should look at that and we should apply those
same things. Mr. Gupta, how many veterans do you serve?
Mr. Gupta. We have over 85,000 veterans on the platform,
sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Dickman.
Mr. Dickman. We serve 25,000 annually.
Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Loomis, what are you looking to serve?
Mr. Loomis. Every veteran service member we are aimed to
put on the platform for free of charge.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Ms. Burgess.
Ms. Burgess. 18 million veterans alive and all those
coming.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Are you guys familiar with the
enlisted ladder? That is a program. It takes a person when they
join the Navy to a 30-year career. What I would like to do, and
if you are not doing this, you should take that from the 30-
year career into your entire lifetime. I think that is very, it
would be valorous if we were able to do that.
I am looking forward to working with all of you guys in the
future. Listen, I do not care if you are a private, public
thing. If you are a public thing or a private thing, I do not
care. If you are helping our veterans, I am with you. On that
note, I have 43 seconds. Will everybody here in the audience
raise their hand if you are a veteran? How many people went
through the TAP program? How many people thought it was worth.
Yes, thanks. Well, Mr. Chairman, maybe I should resign because
that is my failure. I want to thank you all for coming here. My
office is always open for you cats. Jason, thanks for showing
up, pal. There is another frogman there, too.
With that, I will yield back, sir.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman. Yes.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Mr. Chairman, does the Committee
have rules on decorum? Personally----
The Chairman. It does. I was going to express my concern
that decorum should be followed as. The rules are that way,
regardless how frustrated you are with that. Representative
Ramirez, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman. This weekend, many of us
watched, appalled, as the President launched an illegal and
unauthorized attack on Iran that had put our country and our
service members in harm's way. He justified taking us to the
brink of war with the same excuses his predecessors used to
send service members to endless wars. This administration is
fully committed to undermining our democracy, undermining our
security and our safety through reckless disregard of the
Constitution, irresponsible and unpredictable governance,
dangerous and unaccountable decision-making. The way he
approached foreign affairs this weekend is not unlike how this
administration has approached veterans care. You see there is a
pattern here. Reckless disregard of VA workers, 30 percent of
whom are veterans, by the way, irresponsible and unpredictable
rulemaking, dangerous and unaccountable empowerment of
Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) to make unproven
changes across agencies. While the administration is running
around bombs out and middle fingers up. We as Members of
Congress still have a promise to uphold for our veterans.
Veterans deserve to know that we are doing everything,
everything to ensure their peace and safety when they return
home.
The transition to civilian life is complex. Many service
members return with physical injuries and mental health
challenges that require so much more than the transitionary to
do's and checklist. The Transition Assistance Program, we know,
is a vital means of ensuring that veterans achieve peace,
fulfillment and safety after service. We know that from
employment assistance to health services, housing support and
continued education, our veterans deserve an integrated
education and streamlined, comprehensive approach to TAP that
provides them with the resources and the supports that they
need to succeed. It is why you are here.
TAP should be a gateway to stability to opportunity and
dignity for every service member leaving active-duty, not just
some as we saw a moment ago. Nearly 70 percent, 70 percent of
service members are still not accessing the program on time. To
me, that is systemic failure that Congress has to rectify. I
want to talk about SkillBridge.
Last week I met with previously approved SkillBridge
providers in my district who were recently and without notice,
without notice, removed from the SkillBridge provider website.
They still do not know the exact date or reason why they were
unlisted. They did not get no notice, no explanation. You and I
both know that the SkillBridge is an important component of
TAP. Ms. Burgess, can you explain what it means for veterans if
trusted SkillBridge providers are being quietly removed? My
follow up to that, how will this affect service members
transition into your program?
Ms. Burgess. Thank you for your question. I do not have a
program. I am a researcher, PhD and I look at the whole
ecosystem. From kind of that 10,000-foot view, I would say
probably my colleagues at this table have better, more
detailed, tangible answers to you. In general, though, of
course, it will affect whichever employers, potential employers
that were dropped, any of those individuals who are interested
in those particular types of employment.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Ms. Burgess. Let me ask you then,
Mr. Loomis, Mr. Dickman or Mr. Gupta, what can Congress do to
ensure that service members have the greatest level of access
to SkillBridge approved organizations?
Mr. Loomis. I think a strong public-private partnership
that is endorsed and supported regardless of administration
that allows private organizations and nonprofits to be able to
work with government to do the heavy lifting. I think that is
been proven that innovation and disruption comes from the
outside in the commercial markets and really is the only way to
integrate. I believe TAP should start probably 12 months prior
to discharge, primarily so that you can either retain the
individual for a military service career because it is a good
opportunity for them, or to start the transition process,
including repair, financial viability, credit repair, all that
stuff takes time. 30 days is not going to solve that.
Ms. Ramirez. You recommend 12 months?
Mr. Loomis. At least 12 months in advance.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. What about you, Mr. Dickman, and
Mr. Gupta?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I
would recommend to the constituents who that had their
SkillBridge removed to obviously keep pursuing that discussion
with the Department of Defense. Unfortunately, I am not an
expert on SkillBridge administration, so I would not be able to
advise them on what rules that they would have to follow. I
would encourage them as well to expand their talent pipeline
considerations for veterans transitioning military and military
spouses. There are numerous other direct hiring actions that
they could take that plug into already separated veterans or
military spouses or others who are not eligible for SkillBridge
who equally are struggling with underemployment that they
could----
Ms. Ramirez. My time is up. Mr. Gupta, if you want to do 3
seconds before.
Mr. Gupta. Yes, I would agree with our speaker s here. Then
focusing on the need and the feedback from the veteran on where
the lack is, is a primary target and focus how we serve them
better. If it is education, extensive partnerships, as long as
they are geared and supported to the veteran well-being.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Mr. Gupta. Look, I know my time is
up, so Chairman, I am going to yield back and just remind us
that we have to make sure that these programs are effectively
helping every one of our veterans. It is actually how we honor
their service with action. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Hamadeh, you are recognized 5
minutes.
Mr. Hamadeh. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a veteran myself
and I also serve on the Armed Services and Veteran Affairs
Committee and you know this program I have been through it as a
former Army Reservist, when I was getting off my deployment of
14 months, I did not find it all that useful, especially
because I was a reservist going back to my civilian job. I
think we got to have some common sense in a lot of this
policies. We also need personalization.
I want to first ask my question to you, Mr. Loomis. Your
Arizona-based company, TurboVets, aims to make TAP technology
driven and personalized. One complaint I consistently hear is
that the TAP program feels like a one size fits all checkbox.
You have spoken about customization and in your view, what
steps could the DoD and VA take to make it a little bit more
personalized?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you, Congressman. The personalization
comes from the individuality of the person that is going
through TAP. That includes their upbringing, their service
connective services that they did, their career that they did
in the military, their desires, their interests. TAP needs to
be built on what their inadequacies are and what their goals
are. More specifically, that changes by the individual. The
individual, that is the problem. With AI today and the ability
to consume lots of data and being able to build a roadmap, we
like to build a custom curriculum per individual that
specifically focuses on 5-year goals, what their career in the
military was, what their weak points are, what their strengths
are so that they can have good job placement, but they can also
work on their--what they are struggling with. If they have got,
you know, weak financial viability, they need to have, you
know, put together a program about budgeting, you know,
financial saving, credit repair. You know, all of these things
are required prior to discharge. You know, if you try to get an
apartment or a home after military service and you have got bad
credit, that is going to be a real problem. That is the goal of
financial literacy is a very, very strong component to
individualizing everybody's transition.
Mr. Hamadeh. Yes, I like that. I think a lot of the
innovation comes from the private sector. Keep it up. Another
question, Mr. Loomis. I am also concerned about the classroom
approach and how it fails to resonate with a lot of the
transitioning service members. How do we bridge that civilian
military gap and what would a technology enabled TAP program
actually look like on the ground?
Mr. Loomis. On the ground, thank you, Congressman, for the
additional question. On the ground, it is more about
partnerships. We are working with the Medal of Honor Museum in
Arlington, Texas. We are working with popular podcasters that
are out there, Mr. Ryan, who is obviously a Navy SEAL as well,
to really personalize the experience where these are service
members talking to future veterans. That connectivity of
personalizing it, getting, you know, digital learning is
different today than it was 25 years ago. You know, people are
looking at 5-minute clips of video to gather and consume the
data rather than reading a chapter of a book. You have to kind
of keep up with time. On the ground, it is about building that
digital platform to be able to have one, the content that is
changing to the market. We cannot--we cannot sell and teach
based on PowerPoint anymore. People lose their attention. They
will be thinking about what they want to do tomorrow. More
importantly, it is about staying with relevant with data. Then
obviously good stakeholder's human effect. We do not need AI
teaching everybody everything. We really need to have good
content from video creators and obviously social media
platforms.
Mr. Hamadeh. Very good. Ms. Burgess, I got a question for
you. In your testimony, you mentioned that a majority of the
potential employers believe that veterans need more training or
additional education on soft skills before they are ready to
maintain a career in the civilian sector. Can you elaborate on
that, how we can better prepare the soft skills aspect of it?
Ms. Burgess. Sure. Thank you for the question. Essentially,
it comes down to translating the skills that they had in the
military into more civilian speak. Communication skills is
often considered the first or most principle of this. In terms
of how do you do an interview, how do you present yourself in
an interview, in a civilian interview, elaborate about your
personal characteristics and what you bring to an employment
location.
Mr. Hamadeh. Very good. I know there is a lot of foreign
investments coming to United States. Every single one of these
companies that have met with me I encourage them to hire
Americans and hire veterans specifically because there is
always, they always mention the challenge of our workforce. I
know the veterans are the hardest workers. As the chairman said
earlier, they show up on time, they are disciplined, and I
think they make the best employees.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Cherfilus-McCormick, you are
recognized for 5 minutes for question.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you so much for your service and being here in helping
our veterans.
We have talked extensively about the TAP program and the
problems with it. I wanted to deep into, take a deep dive into
some of the services that you provide, especially some of your
software. Now, we know the most critical thing is connecting
our former service workers into jobs that they want, where they
can leverage their talents.
My first question is for Mr. Loomis. I understand that your
company is currently designing and testing a product that helps
transitioning service members to identify employers that want
to hire our veterans. Can you walk us through the product and
what has the preliminary feedback been from our veterans and
also their employers?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you, Congresswoman. The preliminary
feedback is that it is a high-speed solution right now and it
is customized. Transition is a very tricky thing because
everybody's transition is different. Right. Some might going
through it with no financial literacy and no financial
stability. I think the institutionalization that happens when
you are a service member, we take for granted that we are being
paid, fed and housed without thinking about it. No matter what
problem comes up, when you are military service, you have a
chain of command that will help you solve that problem.
I think with transition, it is really preparation. Do
people and individuals going through the service, through the
TAP program as service members, do they understand those
differentiations that you are going to have to provide for
yourself, you are going to have to feed yourself, you are
always going to have to house yourself? I think we take that
for granted. Even for myself, it was a big change to make that.
The feedback that we are receiving is the individuality that
comes from everybody's situation is different. It should start
12 months prior to discharge because. If someone has made a bad
loan when they were young and they did not know that 30 percent
loan that they did not pay ruined their credit, that is going
to be a problem when they are in the civilian world. It takes
time, as we all know in this committee to repair your credit.
The time and the accessibility of solutions that is key. That,
you know, with technology we can connect those dots. We connect
with partners that are on this Panel as well.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Now, with looking at that
feedback, is there any recommendations you would make directly
to Congress that we can institute to help you also in your
feedback and what you are finding to help our soldiers
transition?
Mr. Loomis. Yes, the 12-month requirement. I also think
that 1 day, one or a few hours a week per command endorsement,
we find that a lot of commands do not really support the TAP
program because the individual might be a high performer and
that individual then does not really get any time off. They
kind of leverage them to the day they get off. I think that it
would be important, important that every command in the U.S.
Military endorses and supports an individual spending and doing
their TAP. They really need to back them in that second
transition from the first. I do not think that is happening
today. I think that the command sometimes will just disregard
that as not important compared to the mission itself.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Now, has there been any negative
feedback that you have gotten from your application?
Mr. Loomis. No, the only negative feedback is when can we
have more features. Everybody is pretty impatient with when can
I, when can you have more stuff in your product roadmap come
online?
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, one of the biggest
complaints I hear from my veterans in my district is that the
military assumes they want to continue the same or similar jobs
that they have been doing when they were civilian workforce.
What do you--is there a filter that helps matches them? They
might have other talents that they would like to explore. How
are you actually bridging that gap for our veterans who feel
the same? Feel that way?
Mr. Loomis. Yes. That is the partnership with like, you
know, here's for hire. Also there is another company called
OpLine that actually does the matching. The other thing is a
lot of veterans and service members do not realize that you can
also contract back to the military for your same job. There is
an opportunity. If you have a very specialized skill set, like
working on certain aircraft that only the military has, there
are contracting opportunities for those individuals to continue
their service in the civilian world.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Another question that I get also
is that we hear a lot about how veterans are being exploited
for a profit by claim sharks. How does the TurboVets product
prevent veterans from the predatory practices of claim sharks?
What safeguards are in place to prevent the claim sharks from
accessing this?
Mr. Loomis. Thank you. That is our number one driver is to
eliminate the vulnerability that exists with veterans that do
not know that there is free help out there. There is good help
with the disabled, American veterans, American Legion, the
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States (VFW), all have
VSOs, and the county veterans service officers, Texas Veterans
Commission, all have free services to help these veterans. Our
goal is to build a shielded environment. We are shielded from
access of anybody of a claim shark. For example, we work with a
company called ID.me, which all veterans are familiar with. We
use it to log into va.gov. Blake Hall is a very good friend. We
only allow veterans or validated individuals, including
accredited agents or VSOs access to our platform. There is no
cross selling, there is no poaching, there is no manipulation.
Our goal is to eliminate the claim shark business whatsoever
altogether in its entirety. There is no need for veterans to be
giving up their compensation for getting their forms filled out
and for the proper things done.
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, thank you so much. My time
is up and I yield back.
The Chairman. Representative Kiggans, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the
witnesses for giving us your time today and sharing how
Congress can help the men and women who served our Nation
transition into civilian life more easily. As a Navy veteran,
the wife of a retired Navy veteran, and the Representative who
represents a very large veteran population down in Hampton
Roads, Virginia, I understand the challenges service members
and their families face when transitioning from a mission
driven career into everyday civilian life outside of the
uniform. I hear it time and time again just when I am out and
about in the community about the challenges just of leaving
service and leaving that really the job we do every day and
taking on a new life. They are very communicative and I
appreciate just being part of the solution. Thank you for your
work.
It is estimated that 200,000 service members transition
from the military into civilian life each year. It is getting
harder and harder for them to do so. Nearly 60 percent of the
post 911 veterans have reported difficulty adjusting to
civilian life, compared to 25 percent of veterans from earlier
eras. You must support programs that make the transition from
the service to civilian life as smooth as possible.
I am excited to announce today we have introduced the
Veterans Energy Transition Act, or the VET Act. This
legislation will create a Department of Labor grant program for
employers in the energy and advanced manufacturing sectors to
train and hire eligible veterans and transitioning service
members, addressing workforce shortages in these critical
sectors, as well as ensuring our veterans have ample
opportunities for gainful employment. This bill directly
complements the mission that many of you have here today. I
thank you again for being here to discuss how we can establish
new and improve existing programs to make this transition
period smoother for our Nation's veterans. I have a question
for Mr. Dickman. Mr. Dickman, one of the main goals of Hire
Heroes USA is to help veterans secure employment after their
time in service through one-on-one support that aims to help
them. Can you elaborate on the sort of skills that many
veterans leave the service with and how those match up with
what skills employers are looking for? How often are employers
in the energy and manufacturing sectors looking to connect with
skilled veterans?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you so much for the question,
Congresswoman. One of the things that we have learned and
learned through our partnerships with McKinsey as well is that
junior enlisted and enlisted service members have really strong
representative technical skills that employers make hiring
decisions off of really quickly. In the manufacturing sector,
in the logistics sector, in the healthcare sector, and in the
energy sector, anything dealing with manual labor or cyber-
Information Technology (IT), those inform hiring manager
decisions and those enlisted service members get hired on those
skills really quickly. Where they tend to struggle is that
their leadership or personal or soft skills are not recognized
as much. They struggle to be upwardly mobile within those
organizations. More senior service members, their leadership
skills, decision-making, product management, program
management, those are more recognized and are way more into
hiring manager decisions for those more senior and executive
type of transitioning military, but they are not often hired on
technical roles in those types of industries.
Ms. Kiggans. Great. We will, continue to work on that.
During a service members transition, what does this period look
like for the family? How does Hire Heroes USA make the families
of service members leaving the military just help them to make
the adjustment as well?
Mr. Dickman. Thank you for the continued question,
Congresswoman. It is extremely stressful on the family. You
know, not only is the service member leaving that culture that
they are part of, but the military spouse and children are
leaving that tight knit community as well. We do work with
military spouses, any military spouse, regardless when they met
their partner, if they are still partnered with them or not.
Any marriage to a service member affects the career trajectory
of that spouse and has long-term effect. We encourage military
members that we are working with to have their partner or
spouse sign up with us as well for continued career support,
especially if they are moving to a new area. We are happy to
say that a lot of our referrals come from partners of an
already existing client.
Ms. Kiggans. Great. Thank you for that. As a military
spouse, that is important. As a mom to future veterans, I know
that will be important to them as well. Thank you for that
work.
Last question for Ms. Burgess. Ms. Burgess, in your
testimony you noted that around 200,000 service members exit
the military each year. As well as that there are around 45,000
registered veterans, service focused nonprofit organizations,
that is one nonprofit for almost every 4 veterans. The issue is
obviously not with the amount of organizations but rather
access to or the coordination of programs.
How can government agencies better focus on employment
services for veterans to create a more efficient experience?
How can we streamline the existing landscape to perhaps put
things more in one place?
Ms. Burgess. I will echo some of the--some of the other
witnesses on this testimony. I think that it comes down to
public-private partnerships and leveraging what each side--each
side is doing best. I think more importantly is we need to
start with measuring outcomes, not outputs. That is something
that is directly something that Congress can mandate for all of
these VA programs. We are not going to know what works best
unless we know what the outcomes are. To know what the best
outcomes are, first we have to determine what it is that
Congress wants out of all of these programs. Thank you.
Ms. Kiggans. We will continue to do our part as well. Thank
you so much. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you. Representative Cherfilus-
McCormick, is there any closing statement you need to make for
the----
All right, then. First off, I want to say thank you to our
witnesses. As you know, this is a very important issue to each
of us on this Panel. Sometimes I think we should stay focused
on the issue out here than bringing up the other issues around
that kind of cause havoc in that. Let me say this. I would
agree with the ranking member in his statement earlier that
regardless whether Republican or Democrat, whichever
administration there, it has been difficult to get the DoD to
communicate with the VA on this issue. I am hoping that we are
working with the administration to try to find that common
ground. Remember DoD, and when I look at our veterans that are
sitting at the table there, remember DoD's job is to put a
bullet down range or support those who do.
Trying to find that window and trying to convince
commanding officers that how important the TAP program is, is a
challenge for all of us. We want to make sure that we do that
in a way, as I explained in my opening statement, that it is
got better, but by no means are we done yet. Okay? It is
vitally important. I have watched my own nephews, grandson go
through this. I was blessed in the fact that I went home to a
family business, knew what I was going to do. Believe me, by
the time my, this will stick into your mind, by the time I had
my mullet and curly perm grown out, I had already transitioned.
No problem. Not everybody does that. Okay? We need to make sure
that TAP program is there and that our military personnel are
advised. I also want to bring up that, you know, when we went
out and visited the TAP program in Twentynine Palms, one thing
that they did that was very wise is they did bring the spouse
in. Quite often our military personnel, when they get ready,
especially junior, when they are getting, if they are married,
they are getting ready to leave, they just want to get out,
their spouse quite often is more worried about the landing zone
than they are.
Trying to put this together, this is vitally important. I
hope that we will sit down with both secretaries and try to
find that place and through their employees so that we can find
that place where we can focus on making sure there is plenty of
time for the TAP program.
With that, I want to say thank you again, and we are
looking forward to continue to work. I ask unanimous consent
that all members have 5 legislative days to revise and extend
their remarks and include extraneous material.
Hearing no objection. So, ordered.
The hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
=======================================================================
A P P E N D I X
=======================================================================
Prepared Statements of Witnesses
----------
Prepared Statement of Manish Gupta
Chairman, Ranking Member, and distinguished members of the
Committee, thank you for inviting Combined Arms to testify and for your
unwavering commitment to our veterans. As Chief Technology Officer of
Combined Arms, I lead a network that harnesses advanced technology to
streamline veterans' transitions. Our digital platform, proven by
connecting a veteran to housing and job resources in mere minutes,
showcases the power of applying innovative data strategies to
streamline access to essential help, delivering an ``Amazon shopping
cart''-style approach to navigating social services. With enhanced
collaboration from the DoD, VA, and DoL, Combined Arms' platform could
serve as a force multiplier for the Transition Assistance Program
(TAP), transforming its ability to deliver seamless, personalized
support to servicemembers.
TAP is a vital bridge, guiding veterans to civilian resources.
Combined Arms' platform, spanning all 50 states, integrates 650 vetted
organizations, including 76 national partners, to amplify TAP's impact
through innovative technology and robust agency partnerships.
Our platform is a closed-loop, data-powered digital marketplace
designed to enhance TAP's efficiency. Veterans complete secure
profiles--detailing service history, skills, and wellness needs--
enabling personalized support pathways to match them to resources,
serving as a one-stop shop for social services. DoD collaboration could
provide early service data, allowing TAP to tailor pre-separation
career and benefit plans. Veterans select services, such as job
training or mental health support, using intuitive filters for location
and category. Real-time analytics track delivery, ensuring
accountability, while quick connections to over 650 service agencies
drive efficiency. Our platform's ability to serve over 85,000 clients,
connecting them to over 190,000 social services demonstrate its
capacity to scale TAP's resource delivery.
The platform fosters multi-sector collaboration to broaden TAP's
reach. Equipped with provider interfaces--featuring case management,
interagency referrals, digitized forms, and ADA/508 compliance--it
streamlines coordination, as endorsed by the VA and George W. Bush
Institute.
VA integration could accelerate benefit access, linking veterans to
healthcare or education support. DoL partnerships could enhance job
pipelines, integrating programs like SkillBridge to boost employment
outcomes. Our USO pilot, engaging veterans 18 months pre-separation,
aligns with TAP's early intervention goals. We recommend standardized
VA liaisons, flexible policies for community innovations like
mentorship, and a National Community of Practice. This digital hub
would enable TAP stakeholders to share best practices, leveraging our
220,000-strong audience reach to drive continuous improvement.
Our platform strengthens TAP's outcome measurement--employment,
mental health, and civilian satisfaction. Advanced analytics, which
facilitated 14,406 career placements since 2020, layer client data with
public metrics to generate county-level heat maps, identifying service
gaps in rural or underserved areas. With DoD, VA, and DoL data sharing,
TAP could dynamically allocate resources and track long-term well-
being, ensuring adaptability to veterans' evolving needs, as recognized
by the VA. These analytics empower data-driven decisions, optimizing
TAP's effectiveness across diverse veteran communities.
To realize this vision, Combined Arms recommends:
1. Fund technology integration with the TAP platform,
leveraging VA systems for cost-efficient, personalized support.
2. Establish a VA-led task force to standardize collaboration
and integrate private-sector networks.
3. Support pilot programs to test these solutions, with metrics
tracking employment and well-being.
In conclusion, with robust DoD, VA, and DoL collaboration, Combined
Arms' platform could serve as a force multiplier for TAP,
revolutionizing veteran transitions through technology. We stand ready
to partner with this Committee and stakeholders to build a future where
every servicemember thrives. Thank you, and I welcome your questions.
Prepared Statement of Ross Dickman
Introduction
Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and Members of the Committee,
thank you for the opportunity to speak today on improving outcomes for
veterans and transitioning service members. Leaving the military is a
shared experience for those who serve, but each servicemember's journey
is unique. Ensuring the Federal Transition Assistance Program is
tailored to meet the needs of all those transitioning, while
standardizing effective outcome measures is essential to improving the
transition process. The sustainable future of the all-volunteer force
relies on providing the right care to veterans as they exit, and
through their post-service careers.
Background
Hire Heroes USA is the Nation's leading veteran and military spouse
employment nonprofit. Headquartered in Alpharetta, Georgia, we are
proud of our nationwide presence, serving clients in all 50 states and
abroad. Hire Heroes USA offers comprehensive, one-on-one employment
services to 25,000 transitioning service members, veterans, and
military spouses annually. Founded in 2005, we are celebrating our 20th
anniversary this year and have helped secure employment for nearly
110,000 unique individuals.
The scope and scale of our client population provides us with
robust insights into the myriad employment barriers veterans face after
they leave the military. Approximately 60 percent of our clients
registered for assistance while still on active duty, and 32 percent
registered after their separation from the military. Around 8 percent
of our annual clients are military spouses.\1\ This individualized
model grants us a unique lens on interventions both pre-and post-
separation. I am honored to elevate our clients' experiences for the
committee today, especially those related to evaluating and improving
the transition process. The transition process must incorporate policy
reforms that support the right solutions and outcomes.
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\1\ ``Hire Heroes Report,'' 2023, https://www.hireheroesusa.org/wp-
content/uploads/2024/12/2023-Hire-Heroes-Report.pdf.
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The Transition System: A Fragmented Landscape
Each veteran experiences a unique journey after service, including
education, embarking on a career path, starting a business, or
continuing service to their community. Due to the variety of pathways
available when leaving active duty, developing a standardized method of
measuring every veteran's success can have its challenges. However, we
can effectively evaluate indicators of well-being for veterans in their
civilian lives. Data from key nonprofit and research entities in this
sector propose solutions for not only assessing but improving outcomes
in veteran programming. These datasets reveal several key contextual
factors that policymakers should consider when seeking to reform
military to civilian transitions: (1) transition is a process, (2)
specific needs exist at critical intervals throughout that process, and
(3) needs vary based on each individual; and those needs could be
impacted by their rank, education, timeline, experience, and other
unique factors at time of separation.
First, transition is a process that can extend well beyond the
point of separation from the military. Data from The Veterans Metric
Initiative (TVMI) longitudinal study conducted by Penn State
University's Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness studied the
well-being of over 10,000 individuals who separated from the military
in 2016. The study examined seven domains of well-being: employment,
education, financial security, legal issues, social connectedness,
physical health, and mental health. A key finding from the research is
that transition from military to civilian life is a process--not a
single moment in time. While 65 percent of veterans reported feeling
fully transitioned within 3 years of separation, 19 percent still did
not feel fully transitioned even six and a half years later.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness The Pennsylvania
State University, An Overview of the Typical Veteran in Transition
(2025), https://veteranetwork.psu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/TVMI-
VETS_Transitioning-Veteran-Infographic_2025Mar26.pdf.
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The study also highlights that the first 2 years post-separation
are critical for intervention, revealing that specific needs exist at
critical intervals throughout the transition process. During this time,
65 percent of transitioning service members accessed at least one
program offering specialized services across the well-being domains.\3\
Most veterans used multiple services throughout their transition
journey, with financial security emerging as a primary concern.
Although many pursued higher education after leaving the military, they
often did so while simultaneously seeking employment to stabilize their
financial situation.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ The Pennsylvania State University, ``An Overview of the Typical
Veteran in Transition.''
\4\ The Pennsylvania State University, ``An Overview of the Typical
Veteran in Transition.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, multiple factors contribute to the unique circumstances
surrounding a service member's transition, though rank often serves as
a key indicator of transition success. AEI's April 2025 Report
highlighted that Junior Enlisted veterans (ranks E1 to E4) face the
most challenges post-service, including high unemployment, poor
economic outcomes, and low utilization of existing services. It further
says that despite the robust network of support services available to
this group, measurable results are not being achieved.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ Matt Amidon and Brent Orrell, ``Sustaining a National Treasure:
Veteran Transitions and the Life Cycle of the All-Volunteer Force''
(American Enterprise Institute, April 2025), https://www.aei.org/wp-
content/uploads/2025/04/RPT_Amidon_Orrell_Sustaining-a-National-
Treasure-Veteran-Transitions-and-the-Life-Cycle-of-the-All-Volunteer-
Force_April-2025-5.pdf?x85095.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Supporting these findings, our data indicates that 28 percent of
clients classified as in active duty, reserve, or veteran status, have
a rank between E-1 and E-4 (Junior Enlisted). Their top self-identified
barriers to employment were Education (27.9 percent), Lack of
Experience (27.6 percent), Career Change (21.5 percent), and License
and Certification Requirements (18.6 percent). Our Junior Enlisted
clients also report higher rates of unemployment and underemployment
compared to other rank categories, and when given access partake in
multiple services at a high rate--an average of 2.69 services per
client. In 2023, we observed this population shift from being the least
likely to most likely to utilize services.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ ``Hire Heroes Report.''
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The Need for an Individualized Approach
Individualized employment services--and other educational and
vocational resources--are an essential complement to the Federal
Transition Assistance Program (TAP). A joint initiative led by the
Department of Defense (DoD), the Department of Labor (DOL), the
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), and other Federal agencies, TAP
has played an integral part in gradually improving employment and
various other outcomes for transitioning service members, veterans, and
military spouses. However, TAP is an insufficiently individualized
process that is not dynamic enough to address the unique employment
barriers veterans face. TAP has faced no shortage of challenges in its
more than 20-year history, many of which still remain despite
recognition by Congress, the military, and the veteran community. A
recent GAO report reveals concerning findings about TAP, including a
lack of timely completion of pre-separation counseling requirements and
inadequate attendance at career-track classes for service members most
at risk.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\7\ U.S. Government Accountability Office, Servicemembers
Transitioning to Civilian Life: DOD Could Enhance the Transition
Assistance Program by Better Leveraging Performance Information U.S.
GAO, (Nov. 9, 2023), https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106793.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sheer volume of transitioning service members each year coupled
with DoD resource constraints makes a fully one-on-one model
exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, for the government to
implement on their own. Individualized employment services and
vocational resources are an essential complement of Federal military to
civilian transition services, notes the RAND Corporation's recent
investigation into the Federal and nonprofit landscape. Their June 2024
report found that the Federal Government spends over $13 billion
annually on 45 different programs across 11 agencies to support
military transition. Approximately 97 percent of these funds are
allocated to education services rather than employment services,
despite the fact that employment services are frequently the number one
requested support for transitioning service members. Upon further
investigation into the role of nonprofit organizations in the
transition process, RAND found that these organizations fill a critical
gap to supplement Federal transition programs, particularly in
providing individualized employment services.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\8\ Federal Programs to Assist Military-to-Civilian Employment
Transitions: Limited Scrutiny and Substantial Investment in Education
Programs (RAND Corporation, 2024), https://doi.org/10.7249/RRA1363-12.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Data collected and analyzed by research institutions and nonprofit
entities show the importance of individualized service delivery during
the transition process. Such data should inform future partnerships and
collaborations when discussing and determining how best to measure
success for our Nation's warfighters once they become civilians.
Today's veterans and the labor market do not look like those of an age
gone by--neither should our transition programs. We need a transition
system that fits the challenges of today's veterans and provides
opportunities for individuals to overcome challenges and barriers to a
successful civilian life.
The Persistence of Underemployment
Absent from much of the data on veteran transition, the less
visible and harder to track trend of underemployment is a persistent
problem for veterans in the civilian workforce. According to Penn State
University's Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness,
underemployment occurs ``when veterans' skills, education, and
experiences are not fully utilized or maximized in a current job
role.'' \9\ The Veterans Metric Initiative (TVMI) data illustrates that
61 percent of veterans report underemployment 3 years after separation
from the military. This number only drops slightly to 60 percent of
veterans reporting underemployment at six and a half years post-
separation.\10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\9\ ``Policy Brief: Mitigating Veteran Underemployment,'' October
2023, https://veteranetwork.psu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/
PSU_Mitigating-Veteran-Underemployment_OCT-2023-FINAL.pdf.
\10\ The Pennsylvania State University, ``An Overview of the
Typical Veteran in Transition.''
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Many veterans experience underemployment because there is not
always a direct translation of skills gained from their military
experience. Skills translation is especially critical given that 74
percent of nonveterans hold a bachelor's degree or higher, compared to
just 54 percent of veterans.\11\ Hire Heroes USA's data reflect this
with approximately 26 percent of 2023 registrants having a 4-year
degree and around 17 percent having a 2-year degree. The largest share
of those jobseekers (40 percent) enter the job market with degree
attainment lower than a bachelor's. When compared with analysis from
the Occupational Information Network (O*NET), TVMI's research found
that 40 percent of veterans were underemployed according to O*NET job
education requirements.\12\, \13\ Perceived insufficient
level of educational attainment, regardless of skills and experience,
prohibits veterans from landing jobs where they are challenged and
fulfilled. This perceived education gap can follow veterans throughout
their career--significantly impacting earnings and career progression--
and reaffirming the need for career support services far beyond the
point of transition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\11\ ``Table 3. Employment Status of People 25 Years and over by
Veteran Status, Period of Service, and Educational Attainment, 2024
Annual Averages--2024 A01 Results,'' Bureau of Labor Statistics,
accessed June 3, 2025, https://www.bls.gov/news.release/vet.t03.htm.
\12\ ``US Departments of Labor, Commerce Release Skills-First
Hiring Guide to Help Employers Hire, Promote Workers Based on Skill,
Knowledge,'' DOL, accessed June 3, 2025, https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/
releases/osec/osec20241113.
\13\ The Pennsylvania State University, ``An Overview of the
Typical Veteran in Transition.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opportunities in Skills-Based Hiring
The persistence of underemployment among veterans demonstrates a
need for realigning outcome measures. Skills-based hiring presents a
promising solution to mitigate this. Skills-based hiring refers to
``the hiring or promotion of workers around skills, knowledge and
abilities that workers can demonstrate they have, regardless of how or
where they attained those skills.'' \14\ A 2023 study from McKinsey
notes that ``unleashing the value of veterans' work experience through
skills-based hiring could reach almost $15 billion over 10 years.''
\15\ Our private sector partners recognize this untapped economic
potential. According to the National Skills Coalition, 52 percent of
jobs require training beyond high school, but not a 4-year degree.\16\
Opportunity @ Work, a nonprofit working across sectors to implement
skills-based hiring, promisingly reports that 8600,000 jobs have opened
up for STAR (Skilled Through Alternative Routes) jobseekers as 26
states removed degree requirements from government job descriptions
between 2022 and 2025.\17\ This crucial step in removing degree
barriers in employment opportunities is an important development for
all of our clients, but particularly for the 78 percent of Hire Heroes
USA's Junior Enlisted clients (ranks E1-E4) without a bachelor's
degree.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\14\ ``US Departments of Labor, Commerce Release Skills-First
Hiring Guide to Help Employers Hire, Promote Workers Based on Skill,
Knowledge,'' DOL, accessed June 3, 2025, https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/
releases/osec/osec20241113.
\15\ ``Hiring Veterans Can Help Reduce the US Labor Gap McKinsey,''
accessed June 12, 2025, https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/people-
and-organizational-performance/our-insights/from-the-military-to-the-
workforce-how-to-leverage-veterans-skills.
\16\ ``Skills Mismatch,'' National Skills Coalition (blog),
accessed June 12, 2025, https://nationalskillscoalition.org/skills-
mismatch/.
\17\ Chris Francica, ``Three Years In: Tracking the State of the
Paper Ceiling,'' Medium, March 25, 2025, https://
blog.opportunityatwork.org/three-years-in-tracking-the-state-of-the-
paper-ceiling-f24450273266.
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While the concept of skills-based hiring is not entirely new--every
role inherently requires specific skills--validating and leveraging
skills has been an uncommon practice until recently. At Hire Heroes
USA, elements to support a skills-validation framework were already in
place, but much had to be developed. Over the past 2 years, we
collaborated with skill development and validation organizations, job
seekers, career coaches, and employers to integrate skills-based work
throughout our efforts. Hire Heroes USA's clients consistently report
that they find skills validation valuable for enhancing career
development; in fact, 66 percent of respondents indicated they felt
more confident in their job search following a skills-based search
webinar.\18\ There is clear interest among employers and in emphasizing
skills and competencies that would allow job seekers to demonstrate
their value more effectively; however, a definitive and market-wide
framework has yet to emerge. Ensuring widespread standardization and
adoption of this practice will require continued collaboration between
employers, nonprofits, validation platforms, and the Federal
Government. Decision-makers at all levels must actively join the
movement to remove employment barriers for more than 70 million
Americans.\19\
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\18\ ``Skills-Based Hiring White Paper Report,'' 2024, https://
www.hireheroesusa.org/skills-based-white-paper/.
\19\ ``Advocate for Skills-First Government Policies
Opportunity@Work,'' accessed June 12, 2025, https://
www.opportunityatwork.org/topics/skills-first-government-policies.
The Value of Nonprofit Organizations and Opportunities to Expand
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Public-Private Partnerships
In addition to the formal Transition Assistance Program, the
Federal Government provides other military transition programs at no
cost to the service member. One such program is the U.S. Department of
Labor's Employment Navigator & Partnership Pilot (ENPP) program.\20\
ENPP provides one-on-one career assistance to transitioning service
members and their spouses at select military installations. The program
shows great potential as initial reports indicate ENPP participants
experienced 2 months less time from separation to employment and 11
percent higher wages than those who did not participate in ENPP.\21\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\20\ ``Employment Navigator & Partnership Program (ENPP),'' DOL,
accessed June 4, 2025, https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/tap/
employment-navigator-partnership.
\21\ Witness Statement, (2025), https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VR/
VR10/20250325/118028/HHRG-119-VR10-Wstate-DevlinM-20250325.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The success of ENPP is due in large part to the nonprofit partners
that execute service delivery for the program at no cost to the Federal
Government. Since launching in 2021, Hire Heroes USA has served almost
2,000 veterans, resulting in over 1,125 hired veterans. For Hire Heroes
USA's ENPP referrals, the 2024 average salary upon hire was $64,485.
More recently, Hire Heroes USA has participated with the U.S.
Department of Veterans' Affairs, Veteran Readiness & Employment (VR&E)
office. Through this relationship, VR&E case managers refer veterans
most in need of individualized employment services to us for support,
and we work diligently with the VA system to ensure a smooth client
experience.
Behind Hire Heroes USA's success is our highly individualized
approach, where employment services are tailored to the unique needs of
each client. Our industry-leading employment model is centered around a
team of trained Transition Specialists who work one-on-one with their
assigned `client' throughout their employment journey. Our approach not
only results in better employment outcomes for veterans and military
spouses, but it also leads to higher levels of satisfaction and
earnings that surpass the national average for veterans by over 30
percent.\22\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\22\ ``Hire Heroes Annual-Report 2022,'' accessed June 4, 2025,
https://www.hireheroesusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Hire-
Heroes_Annual-Report-Digital-2022-V3.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a need for more public-private partnerships to grow
effective transition programs. Rather than risk duplicity by creating
new programs, the government should strengthen existing programs by
partnering with nonprofit organizations that are already producing
positive outcomes for those they serve. This position has been
supported by multiple industry leaders, including the RAND Corporation
\23\ and AEI \24\ which cite the need for nonprofit partners to be
appropriately funded to do this work. Private organizations, relying on
philanthropic support, have filled TAP's shortcomings, but declining
resources jeopardize the private sector's continued sustainment of
individualized employment programs. Nonprofits continue to absorb an
increasing share of the management and measurement of the transition
process. The Federal Government must incentivize their long-term
sustainable participation in these programs through mechanisms other
than philanthropic support, including contractual agreements, grants,
and other arrangements. These collaborations are critical to ensuring
service members have access to all the resources they need in a timely
manner.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\23\ The Role, Effectiveness, and Sustainability of Nonprofit
Organizations That Provide Employment Support for Veterans (RAND
Corporation, 2024), https://doi.org/10.7249/RRA1363-10.
\24\ Amidon and Orrell, ``Sustaining a National Treasure: Veteran
Transitions and the Life Cycle of the All-Volunteer Force.''
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In addition to effective partnerships and individualized service
delivery, there is also a need for standardization in data measurement
and program evaluation across both private and public programs. We need
to move beyond simply counting outputs, such as job placement and
starting salary, to outcomes, such as underemployment, and predictors
for long-term financial security. Importantly, these outcomes must
account for factors such as rank at separation, educational attainment,
and existing support systems.
Moving past a one-size-fits-all approach to transition services and
toward individualized solutions is key to ensuring that service members
are set up for long-term career success, not just temporary jobs. Under
the status quo, the success box for veteran employment is checked
without building sustainable pathways for upward mobility. Unfulfilling
job hopping without career progression is not a successful outcome in
our books. However, current guidelines and objectives used by TAP
evaluators consider these outputs successful.
Conclusion
This concludes my statement. Chairman Bost and Ranking Member
Takano, and Members of the Committee, I once again thank you on behalf
of Hire Heroes USA for your leadership on these pressing issues. We are
honored to submit our perspective on improving employment outcomes for
the thousands of transitioning military members, veterans, and military
spouses we serve. We welcome any questions you may have.
Prepared Statement of Joseph Loomis
Chairman, Ranking Member, and Distinguished Members of the
Committee:
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is
Joseph Loomis. I am a Navy veteran and the Founder / CEO of TurboVets,
a veteran-focused technology company committed to improving how service
members and veterans apply for, manage, and access their benefits and
services, at no cost, for the entirety of their lives. Over the past 20
years, I've led innovation in cybersecurity and advanced technology,
building companies that solve complex challenges through automation and
systems integration.
At TurboVets, our mission is to close the gap between policy and
technology, ensuring that service members and veterans experience a
streamlined, supportive, and successful transition into civilian life
and beyond.
The current Transition Assistance Program (TAP) is fragmented,
outdated, and insufficient in addressing the actual needs of today's
transitioning service members. Despite the efforts of dedicated
agencies, the structure often leaves veterans without the clarity,
relevant instruction, support, or resources necessary to succeed.
Like many veterans, I experienced firsthand the challenges of
navigating a maze of disconnected systems, outdated portals, and
impersonal content. The process can feel like 'death by PowerPoint,'
and the consequences are and have been significant. Today, we face
rising rates of unemployment, financial hardship, mental health crises,
and increasing homelessness within the veteran community. Most
concerning of all, we continue to lose over 6,000 veterans to suicide
each year. This is not just a number, it was the call to action to why
my team and I started TurboVets; a problem we must solve together with
the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and Department of Defense
(DoD).
TAP must be reimagined as the beginning of a long-term,
personalized journey rooted in trust, capability and support. This
transformation requires a public-private partnership that integrates
technology at every stage of the service members transition process.
Servicemembers need more than briefings, they need continuous access to
tailored tools, podcasts, relatable video instruction, personal
mentorship, and transparent, real-time systems.
We must envision a secure, centralized digital platform, a true
'one-stop shop,' where service members can view and access their
benefits, monitor application progress, explore career guidance, online
resume and networking, as well as job opportunities, and even consider
military reenlistment/retention offers to remain in service. This
platform must seamlessly integrate with government systems, providing
real-time data, automating eligibility verification, and removing the
burdens that currently deter many from seeking help.
This vision is the foundation upon which we built TurboVets. Our
veteran-led team uses AI, automation, and system integration to bridge
the gaps between agencies and those they serve. We are committed to
delivering a customized experience that reduces delays, improves
accuracy, fosters trust, and combats fraud, waste, and loss.
Technology is no longer a luxury anymore; it is a necessity to
integrate and exist in the world today. My team and I as well as my
fellow Americans owe our veterans not just gratitude, but effective,
modern solutions that deliver meaningful outcomes. It is our duty to
serve those who served us, and I have committed my life to partnering
with government agencies to fulfill that responsibility.
I am confident that, under the leadership of the VA and DoD, and in
collaboration with TurboVets, we can transform TAP into a foundation
for long-term success, retention, and national security.
Thank you again for the opportunity to share this vision. I look
forward to the work ahead and the chance to make it a reality.
Prepared Statement of Rebecca Burgess
Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of
the Committee:
Thank you for your leadership in convening this hearing on
rethinking the transition process from military service to civilian
life. Too often, veterans' issues are treated as merely human-interest
stories--tales to invigorate or innervate the heart; to lighten the
pocketbook; to castigate government--rather than as serious policy
issues of national importance. As a Nation, we too often take symbolic
action rather than substantive actions when it comes to taking care of
those who have worn the Nation's uniform, their families, survivors,
and caregivers.\1\ That symbolism is now exorbitantly expensive; the
evidence now also suggests that it has been largely ineffective.\2\ And
this continues to have adverse impacts on our national security: A
nation that struggles to staff adequately each of the separate branches
of its military, because of false or mythologized impressions of any
lasting effects of military service at the individual level, is a
nation that cannot remain secure and strong for long.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Symbolic, even when immensely expensive and to the tune of $400
billion (the 2025 budget of the Department of Veterans Affairs alone).
For a detailed expose of this dynamic, see Rebecca Burgess, ``Triaging
the VA,'' National Review Magazine, July 2024, https://
www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2024/07/triaging-the-va/.
\2\ Meredith Kleykamp et al., Federal Programs to Assist Military-
to-Civilian Employment Transitions: Limited Scrutiny and Substantial
Investment in Education Programs, RAND Corporation, June 11, 2024,
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1363-12.html.
\3\ Bradley Bowman, Marcus Ruzek, and Dan Goldenberg, ``Veterans
and American National Security,'' Foreign Podicy, February 21, 2025,
https://www.fdd.org/podcasts/2025/02/21/veterans-and-american-national-
security/.
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Understanding the DoD-VA Landscape
For 250 years, beginning with the Continental Army, every branch of
the U.S. Armed Forces has had one consistent output, the military
veteran, and yet for 250 years, our Nation has never articulated a
national veterans' strategy. Not even when we professionalized military
service and returned to our voluntary service roots with the creation
of the All-Volunteer Force in 1973, did we officially recognize the
importance--to the Nation, and especially to the military itself--of
the well-transitioned military veteran.\4\ Every recruitment cycle
since that has been overshadowed in concerns about meeting even lowered
required enlistment numbers is proof of this embarrassing inattention.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ Rebecca Burgess, ``Saluting Those Who Freely Serve,'' Law and
Liberty, August 22, 2023, https://lawliberty.org/features/saluting-
those-who-freely serve/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
An all-volunteer force is not a self-sustaining institution.
Because we never asked ourself as a nation what it might take
societally to sustain a volunteer, professional military, we seem to
have failed to understand that there is a lifecycle to military
recruitment that both begins and ends with the military veteran. As I
have repeatedly argued, the veteran is the unacknowledged but permanent
ambassador of national service: How we publicly portray veterans--by
how we treat them, legislate about them, talk about them--directly
relates to how society conceptualizes military service, including what
happens to an individual during that service.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ See, for instance, Rebecca Burgess, ``From a Social Deficit to
a Social Asset Model: How Congress and the VA Can Empower Veterans and
Reverse the `Broken Veteran' Narrative'', Statement before the House
Committee on Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
Hearing on Pending Legislation, April 9, 2019, https://docs.house.gov/
meetings/VR/VR10/20190409/109258/HHRG-116-VR10-Wstate-BurgessR-
20190409.pdf.
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As a Nation, we have consistently failed to recognize that there is
a societal ``continuum'' or lifecycle between the veteran and the
potential military recruit. Perhaps we come by this failure honestly
and despite the best of intentions, as a byproduct of our government
structure. Unlike in the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Singapore, and
several other countries, in the United States we have created a
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) that is an executive agency that is
independent in every meaningful way from the Department of Defense
(DoD), from physical buildings to budgets, to personnel, to
programs.\6\ This physical, structural breaking apart seems to have
resulted in a mental breaking apart, among those especially employed in
the Defense Department, of treating soldiers as proper national
security concerns but dismissing veterans as domestic policy concerns,
and as almost entirely healthcare policy concerns.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ Institute for Defense and Government Advancement, ``Five
Countries: Five Approaches to Veteran Programs,'' VA Healthcare 2018,
https://eco-cdn.iqpc.com/gfiles/
_SXIJAfive_countries_five_approaches_to_veterans_programs_whitepaper.pdf.
\7\ I use ``soldiers'' here collectively for all those serving in
the armed forces.
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There is a long-running attitude--however informally articulated--
within DoD that essentially treats anyone handed a DD214 form as a
failure of retention and thus as deadweight. That perception must be
reshaped. Such a mindset is not only outdated, but it directly
negatively impacts the health of each service branch. It is a mindset
in drastic need of re-education, in order to recognize the reality that
every veteran who succeeds or fails to reintegrate healthily into
civilian society represents investment funds or withdrawals (as it
were) from the future military, in the form of potential recruits.
Every failed reintegration of a veteran into civilian life is a
disincentive and discouragement from joining the Army, Navy, Marine
Corp, Air Force, Space Force, or Coast Guard; every successful
reintegration is equally if not more an incentive to join one of those
same service branches.\8\ Veterans are just as much alumni of their
alma mater service branch as any college graduate is of their college
or university. And if there is one thing that alumni represent for
their alma mater, it is a walking advertisement for enrollment. Or, as
Brent Orwell and Matt Amidon recently put it, ``veterans are
recruitment influencers.'' \9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\8\ See Brent Orrell and Matthew Amidon, ``Sustaining a National
Treasure: Veteran Transitions and the Life Cycle of the All-Volunteer
Force,'' American Enterprise Institute, April 24, 2025, https://
www.aei.org/research--products/report/sustaining-a-national-treasure-
veteran-transitions-and-the-life-cycle-of-the-all-volunteer-force/
#scrollSection0.
\9\ Ibid.
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The military, and thus DoD, must be brought to recognize these
societal dynamics. The Defense Department must understand that it has a
vested interest in the successful transition or reintegration into
civilian living and society of each veteran after their active or
reserve duty is completed. And thus the several service branches and
their secretaries must also understand that they have a vested interest
in the Nation having a coherent, modernized, effective, and efficient
suite of programs and services to make up that transition process for
all veterans, but especially the most vulnerable veterans, including
young veterans and junior enlisted veterans.
Mapping the Transition to Civilian Life
Some 200,000 service members exit the military and re-begin their
civilian journey every year, having access to some 45,000 registered
nonprofit veterans service organizations, numerous VA benefits such as
the Post-9/11 GI Bill, DoD SkillBridge apprenticeship and immersive
career programs, and corporate hiring initiatives. Many if not most of
these services and programs have come about haphazardly. The result is
that the ``current institutional framework governing the scope of
challenges affecting veterans remains far to disparate, reactive, and
administratively marginalized.'' \10\ What we need for an improved
transition from soldier to civilian and a strengthened transition
assistance program for veterans is not more programs or more money, but
better coordination, data sharing, and outcome measurement of existing
programs and initiatives.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\10\ Nicholas J. Armstrong and Michael Haynie, ``A National
Veterans Strategy: The Economic, Social and Security Imperative,''
Institute for Veterans and Military Families and Institute for National
Security and Counterterrorism, Syracuse University, February 19, 2013,
https://securitypolicylaw.syr.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/National-
Strategy-PublicationFINAL.pdf.
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More than 20 years ago, the 1996 Congressional Commission on
Servicemembers and Veterans Transition Assistance conducted the most
comprehensive review of veterans' benefits since the Bradley Commission
in 1956. Since many of the benefits and services were established in
the waning days of World War II, Congress tasked the commission to
examine everything meant to help service members transition to civilian
life. The commission was then to propose modernizing measures and
improvements, including consolidating and eliminating the administering
organizations.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\11\ Veterans' Benefits Improvements Act of 1996, Pub. L. 104-275
(1996), https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-104publ275.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The commission acknowledged the success of the original GI Bill's
education and employment provisions. These included traditional
education assistance and vocational training for nondisabled veterans;
rehabilitation training; home, business, and farm loans; job counseling
and employment placement services; and an unemployment benefit. But the
commission bridged the post-Industrial Revolution time span between
1944 and 1996 with a declaration: ``If employment is the door to a
successful transition to civilian life, education will be the key to
employment in the information age.'' \12\ Still in a pre-9/11, pre- War
on Terror atmosphere, the commission was concerned that the 20th-
century structural system of benefits the VA oversaw was outmatched by
the actual needs of veterans in the 21st century.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\12\ Congressional Commission on Servicemembers and Veterans
Transition Assistance, ``Congressional Commission on Servicemembers and
Veterans Transition Assistance Final Report,'' January 14, 1999, 3
https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/
PB2006113212.xhtml.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The commission found ``in some cases, benefits and services have
become so outdated, and program management so ineffective that they
break faith with those who served, and currently serve, their Nation in
uniform.'' \13\ The commission therefore distinguished between benefits
and services that directly help service members readjust to civilian
life and those that offered mitigated or delayed compensation ``for the
hardships of military duty,'' opportunities lost or deferred by
performing military service, or treatment or rehabilitation for
injuries incurred while on active duty.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\13\ Ibid.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Nation and its veterans historically have shifted emphasis
between these types of programs according to the concerns of the
moment. After World War I, the 1918 Smith-Sears Veterans Rehabilitation
Act, also known as the Soldiers Rehabilitation Act, recognized the
demands that a rapidly growing manufacturing economy placed on
individuals' commercial abilities. It emphasized vocational
rehabilitation courses for injured soldiers, so that they could return
to their old jobs or enter new occupations and ``carry on a gainful
occupation.'' \14\ This was bookended by compensation legislation
specifically addressing financial and personal opportunities perceived
to be lost by performing military service. The post-World War II GI
Bill further shifted post-service benefits toward education in general.
In fact, the Congressional Research Service dates the VA's education
assistance benefits as beginning with the 1944 bill. The Congressional
Research Service notes that a consistent theme of all GI Bill-type
programs since 1944 is to ``promote development of work-related skills
to facilitate entry or re-entry into the civilian workforce.'' \15\ It
is this theme that the 1996 Transition Commission stresses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\14\ Smith-Sears Veterans Rehabilitation Act, Pub. L. 65-178
(1918).
\15\ Congressional Research Service, ``GI Bills Enacted Prior to
2008 and Related Veterans' Educational Assistance Programs.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
``Returning to private life after serving in the military is a very
complex undertaking,'' former Deputy Under Secretary of Defense
(Military Community and Family Policy) Leslye Arsht observed in
response to the Transition Commission recommendations. ``To assist them
in doing so, we must empower servicemembers with the tools and
information they need to fashion individual solutions to the challenges
they will face in civilian life.'' \16\ Anthony Principi, the former
chairman of the Transition Commission and former VA secretary, added:
``The ultimate measure of successful transition from military to
civilian life is long-term, sustained employment.'' \17\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\16\ Leslye A. Arsht, testimony before the Subcommittee on Economic
Opportunity Oversight, Committee on Veterans' Affairs, US House of
Representatives, December 7, 2006, https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/
CHRG-109hhrg31325/html/CHRG-109hhrg31325.htm.
\17\ Anthony J. Principi, testimony before the Subcommittee on
Economic Opportunity Oversight, Committee on Veterans' Affairs, US
House of Representatives, December 7, 2006, 6, chrome-extension://
bdfcnmeidppjeaggnmidamkiddifkdib/viewer.html?file=https://
www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-109hhrg31325/pdf/CHRG-
109hhrg31325.pdf.
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Ten years after the Transition Commission was formed, both Arsht
and Principi were concerned that the VA's suite of resources was still
tailored to ``the needs of a century gone by.'' Rather than helping
veterans reenter an economy based on manufacturing and agriculture, the
VA needed to orient its programs toward a services-and information-
dominated economy. Furthermore, the VA needed to be taking into account
the fault line that seemed to have developed between those who
volunteered to serve and decision-makers in government, business,
labor, academia, and the media, as the Gulf War and post-9/11 conflicts
reinforced America's reliance on a professional all-volunteer force and
avoidance of conscription. Echoing the Transition Commission, Arsht and
Principi emphasized that, with this in mind, Congress, the DOD, and the
VA needed to especially rethink education assistance as a benefit of
service to potential recruits.
Beyond anecdotal evidence that this remains true in 2025, a wealth
of scholarship and empirical data gathered from diverse surveys
reinforces how pivotal the framing of the VA's education benefits is
for the VA's message of 21st-century economic opportunity for veterans.
It is equally pivotal for civilian employers and the taxpayer community
at large to see veterans as a unique national resource in order for the
Nation to capitalize on its investment in its soldiers' training and
development. It is illuminating in this regard to examine veteran
employment through the lens of the military-civilian divide. This
reveals how education is the crossroads for both veterans and
employers.
Two decades of veteran employment research show that both
individual-and group-level factors, involving psychological elements
for the person and cultural elements tied to group functioning, work to
``ease or impede'' veterans' successful transition from the military to
civilian workforce.\18\ This is bidirectional, reflecting both the
veteran employee's and the civilian employer's perspectives. The
veteran perceives his or her transition as having to negotiate
military-civilian identities while navigating a civilian society and
integrating into a civilian workforce. The employer may or may not know
how to translate the veterans' military skills and experience to the
workplace (generally the employer does not feel adequate to do this),
but he or she does believe that the veteran lacks communication
skills.\19\ A majority of potential employers express openness to
hiring veterans yet also some concern about veterans as employees,
often linked to their perceived lack of translatable skills but
sometimes linked to the ``broken veteran'' narrative.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\18\ Hazel R. Atuel et al., ``Veteran Employment in the 21st
Century,'' in The Civilian Lives of U.S. Veterans: Issues and
Identities, vol. 1, eds. Louis Hicks, Eugenia L. Weiss, and Jose E.
Coll (Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2017), 161-79.
\19\ Martin Berman-Gorvine, ``'Skills Translation' Crucial for
Hiring Veterans,'' Berkshire Associates, October 2, 2017, https://
www.berkshireassociates.com/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In summary, the majority of potential employers believe veterans
need more training or additional education, particularly in ``soft
skills'' such as communication, before they are ready for careers in
the civilian sector. Veterans tend to agree with this assessment, while
50 percent of current service members believe their military experience
and skills are easily transferable to the private sector. Regardless,
both veterans and employers nearly unanimously agree on the benefit of
internship or apprenticeship programs for veterans as they seek to
reenter the civilian workforce--both traditional employment learning
paths. Post-9/11 veterans especially see education as crucial to their
continued success.
Truly, as the Transition Commission noted, education is the key to
employment in the 21st century, and employment is the door to a
successful transition to civilian life. Given this reality, it behooves
the Nation to ``provide transitioning service members with the means
and opportunity to succeed in their civilian lives and to invest their
talent and ability in the American economy.'' \20\ Existing VA programs
already have the infrastructure to do this. All that is lacking is a
structural reorientation of these programs in alignment with 21st-
century realities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\20\ Congressional Commission on Servicemembers and Veterans
Transition Assistance, ``Congressional Commission on Servicemembers and
Veterans Transition Assistance Final Report, 2.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recommendations for a 21st-Century Strengthened Transition Process
In the 21st-century information age, education is key to
employment, and employment is the door to a successful transition to
civilian life. Education and employment combined give veterans the
crucial tools to reforge civilian identities stronger even than their
military ones. The psychic rewards of work, productivity, and a career
cannot be underestimated, which is corroborated by the true veteran
narrative: Veterans, it turns out, are immensely successful. Empirical
data shore that up by showing how veterans with increased levels of
education are wealthier, healthier, and more civically engaged than
even their civilian peers over the life course. Additional research
established the links between these outcomes and reduces rates of
dependence, disability, and criminality.
But in 2025, outside of these more 10,000 foot observations and
bits of knowledge, we also know a few additional, essential things when
it comes to veterans transitioning into civilian life, in terms of
where the gaps in our knowledge are and where the challenges exist.
Here, I echo some of the findings and observations that are helpfully
condensed in the recently published report by the American Enterprise
Institute, ``Sustaining a National Treasure: Veteran Transitions and
the Life Cycle of the All-Volunteer Force,'' for which I provided some
thoughts, observations, and advice.
We know that transition is both an event and a process, taking up
to 10 years for some individuals. Generally speaking, the bulk of the
reintegrating ``work'' occurs in the initial 2-year period after
receiving one's DD214, though significant numbers of at least Post-9/11
veterans have felt that they were not entirely ``fully'' transitioned
at even 6.5 years after service. Mental health, employment, and making
and keeping friends are profound concerns for the typical veteran
during this process. The Veterans Metrics Initiative has identified
seven domains that are ``critical'' to success in transition:
employment, education, finances, legal security, social connections,
and physical and mental health.
We also know that that initial 2-year period post-transition is the
most impactful for intervention, and that those programs are the most
impactful that allow for customized and timely support geared toward
improving employment and well-being outcomes.Furthermore, we know that
currently, our junior enlisted, women, and minority veterans are facing
the steepest post-service challenges, which are exacerbated by low
utilization of existing employment services. Explanations for why there
is the low utilization by those who most stand to profit from accessing
them include the fact that the veteran support system as it currently
exists is fragmented. But further insight continues to elude us,
because of this pervasive problem when it comes to veteran-serving
programs: a lack of data transparency, and a lack of data about
veterans, simply.
High-quality information on veteran demographics and locations is
scare, hindering efficient resource allocation. Enhanced data sharing
among the DoD, VA, and other entities is essential. Connecting the VA/
DoD Identity Repository Database and information available from the
Social Security Administration specific to payroll information at the
zip code level, for instance, would go a far way toward enabling a
better delivery of resources targeted to regions of the country with
enduring economic challenges.
When it comes to the lack of data transparency, our Nation's
veterans are ill-served by programs that are never meaningfully held to
account via a true measurement of their outcomes. The majority of VA
programs, for instance, appear only to measure outputs, rather than
outcomes. This leaves us in the dark about whether the billions of
dollars that are annually allocated for these programs are
accomplishing anything other than smoke from how quickly the monies are
consumed. Any funding should therefore be directed to programs that
effectively improve veteran outcomes and have concrete evidence of the
same, including partnerships with successful nonprofit and private
initiatives.
Currently, neither VA nor Congress (for the VA) have articulated
any key performance indicators to measure key transition goals. The
result is that there is no standardized set of outcomes and impact
measures for veterans-serving programs. Mandating evidence-based
funding and third-party oversight to ensure alignment with measurable
goals via implementing a ``Veteran Impact Dashboard'' would be one step
toward answering this conundrum. Such a dashboard would allow for the
tracking of the effectiveness of the aforementioned investments in
support programs for government-delivered and nonprofit and private
organizations that receive Federal dollars.
What might boost such efforts to improve veterans' transition
assistance programs would be better, and serious, attention paid to
them coming from the Department of Defense. Reestablishing the
Chairman's Office of Reintegration would enable the return of DoD
leadership to the transition process. Rather than distributing the
responsibility and authority for transition success across multiple
government entities, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff needs to
fund and lead high-quality reintegrations. Reestablishing the
Chairman's Office of Reintegration would highlight to all stakeholders
that transition outcomes are crucial to the sustainment of the AVF. And
perhaps this step is what is needed to get both the Senate and the
House Armed Services Committees to hold joint hearings with the House
and Senate Veterans Affairs Committees.
Since the birth of the All-Volunteer Force in 1973, our Nation has
never thought to seriously examine the dynamics that do exist--and that
must exist--between our society, our government, and our military
branches in order to sustain an entirely volunteer military. A national
veterans strategy that reestablishes in the minds of our national
security sector, our public officials in the executive branch as well
as in Congress, and in the American public at large, the reality that
the veteran is the beginning point as much as the end point of military
service, is crucial for the continued health of these United States.
Statements for the Record
----------
Prepared Statement of Schultz Family Foundation
Introduction
In the initial years following the September 11, 2001, attacks,
many of the men and women who answered the call to serve returned home
to uncertain futures. Unemployment for this group soared to nearly 12
percent, far exceeding that of nonveterans.
Over the past two decades, however, employment outcomes for
veterans have improved significantly. A key reason is because the
private and philanthropic sectors have played an outsized role in
supporting the transition to civilian employment. Among the critical
contributions of philanthropy has been to help spur the growth of
innovative veteran-service organizations, which pioneered new skill-
conversion and job-placement programs that have been instrumental in
pushing the unemployment rate for veterans below the overall national
average. Corporate hiring also has helped to create a post-9/11 society
where returning veterans were greeted with gratitude and respect, not
stigma.
The Schultz Family Foundation, founded by Sheri and Howard Schultz,
has been at the forefront of this philanthropic movement, investing $64
million since 2014 to support our Nation's veterans, with a specific
focus on junior enlisted service members who are transitioning into
civilian life.
The role of philanthropy
The Center for a New American Security, in a 2015 paper, described
the support for veterans from corporate and philanthropic donors as a
``sea of goodwill.'' As a result of this support, ``Nonprofit service
organizations and grantmaking entities alike grew up around the
country, particularly as the unique needs of and issues facing post-9/
11 service members and their families emerged.'' \1\
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\1\ files.cnas.org/hero/documents/
VeteransPhilanthropy_151207_rev.pdf
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Over the last decade, the Schultz Family Foundation has flowed
substantial resources into this sea, investing in more than 50 veteran
service organizations, including those that encourage veterans to
reconnect and serve in their community, those who support families and
spouses of those who served, and those who enable veteran
entrepreneurship. Our core focus has been connecting veterans to
employment. We believe that when veterans have good jobs, they are more
likely to have structure, purpose, and financial stability--all keys to
a successful transition after military service. We also recognize that
veterans bring a set of skills, experience, and perspective that our
public and private sector institutions can benefit from, including
leadership, discipline, problem solving, and teamwork.
Our largest investment, at nearly $24 million, has been to support
the launch of the Onward to Opportunity (O2O) initiative, launched
through partnership with Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans
and Military Families (IVMF) and JP Morgan Chase. O2O is now active at
15 military and regional locations and is available virtually to
transitioning servicemembers globally. It offers free, industry-backed
career-training and certification programs in high-demand fields such
as information technology, cybersecurity, business, and customer
service and reaches about 22,000--more than 10 percent of all--
transitioning service members a year.
In 2023, IVMF commissioned an impact evaluation study from the
Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness at The Pennsylvania State
University. Using The Veterans Metrics Initiative, a longitudinal
study, the evaluations found that participation in O2O led to a higher
salary, an increased likelihood to leave a job for better opportunity,
and a strong benefit for the junior enlisted population. O2O is now the
only veteran career-training program, including those sponsored by the
Department of Labor through the SkillBridge program, that can
demonstrate third-party validated efficacy for program participation.
In total, the Foundation's support has helped:
71,000 veterans secure employment
73,000 veterans receive additional skills or credentials
25,000 veterans connect to a mentor
17,000 veterans engage in community service post-
transition
The foundation also has supported the USO's development of a master
data management system (MDM) that enables a ``warm handoff'' of young
veterans from the time of separation to a veterans service organization
best situated to meet their employment needs. In its first year of
operation, the USO Pathfinder program, which generates service member
data to populate the MDM, more than tripled engagement with junior
enlisted clients--jumping from 3,000 a year to more than 10,500 a year.
We expect this system to not only expand the number of junior enlisted
being served and improve the experience and outcomes for young
veterans, but also to deliver data to all stakeholders that offers a
holistic view of the broader transition ecosystem.
A shrinking sea
As the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan fade further into our national
rear-view mirror, other priorities are capturing the attention of
philanthropies and corporations. From our perspective as a funder that
interacts with other funders, we clearly see the level of support for
veterans' employment transitions--and all veterans-related
initiatives--heading for a significant reduction. Several leading
veterans organizations already have reported a significant diminution
in grants and other commitments from philanthropic and corporate
funders.
This should be unsurprising. Philanthropy and the business
community stepped up when we were a nation at war and facing a short-
term challenge in successfully transitioning legions of troops who
served overseas. But private funders should not be expected to sustain
their war footing at a time of peace.
Our military and its interagency partners, including the Department
of Labor and the Department of Veterans Affairs, should bear principal
responsibility for supporting service members in transitioning
successfully and achieving gainful employment. Given the role
successful transitions play in sustaining the all-volunteer force, as
Brent Orrell and Matthew Amidon have written in the American Enterprise
Institute paper ``Sustaining a National Treasure: Veteran Transitions
and the Life Cycle of the All-Volunteer Force,'' \2\ greater engagement
from the Department of Defense is essential. We do not leave the
feeding of active-duty troops to the goodwill of citizens living next
to military installations. The responsibility for employment transition
should not depend so significantly on the goodwill of philanthropists
and businesses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://www.aei.org/research-products/report/sustaining-a-
national-treasure-veteran-transitions-and-the-life-cycle-of-the-all-
volunteer-force/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
A new model
This is not a call for new funding. The good news is that the best
nonprofit programs incubated with philanthropic funds have pioneered
new models of helping veterans. Although government job-navigation
programs have improved in recent years, they remain costly and
relatively ineffective compared to what nonprofit veterans
organizations offer. Far more veterans have been aided in employment
transitions over the past several years by nongovernmental
organizations than efforts run by government agencies and their direct
contractors.
We believe a greater share of Federal funds devoted to veterans
employment transitions should be directed toward the most effective
nonprofit and private initiatives. Doing so would provide greater
benefit to our transitioning service members with no additional cost to
taxpayers.
To be sure, many of those leaving the military today did not serve
in Iraq or Afghanistan--they are products of a peacetime armed forces.
But to simply let veterans organizations and their programs atrophy
would be more than a disservice to those who have worn the cloth of the
Nation. These organizations are critical for three reasons:
Facilitating successful employment transitions among
service members is critical to the health of our all-volunteer force,
which is 52 years old this year. If we wish to recruit the best and
brightest into our military, we need to show that those who serve go on
to successful post-military careers.
The full employment of our veterans helps our overall
economy. Unemployment payments to veterans who are jobless in their
first year out of the military are borne by the Pentagon, sapping money
that would otherwise be used for operations and readiness. In addition,
veterans bring valuable leadership, problem-solving, and teamwork to
the American workplace, benefiting everyone.
Should our Nation be at war again, we will need the
services of our best-performing, most-impactful veterans organizations.
Too many veterans fell through the cracks in the years before this
infrastructure developed.
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this important
discussion. The Schultz Family Foundation looks forward to working with
the subcommittee and the executive branch to improve services and
outcomes for all who have served our country.
Prepared Statement of Blue Star Families
Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished Members
of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on
``Strengthening the Transition Assistance Program: Exploring Outcomes
to Improve the Transition to Civilian Life.''
Blue Star Families is the Nation's largest military and veteran
family support organization, with nearly 380,000 families in our
membership and impacting more than 1.5 million military family members
every year. By cultivating innovative programs and partnerships, Blue
Star Families seeks to ensure that our military and veteran families
always feel connected, supported, and empowered to thrive, wherever
their service or post-service life takes them, in order to ensure
military readiness, retention, and recruiting.
Blue Star Families' research calls attention to the unique
experiences and challenges faced by military and veteran families. Our
annual Military Family Lifestyle Survey (MFLS)--developed in
partnership with Syracuse University's D'Aniello Institute for Veterans
and Military Families (IVMF) and fielded since 2009--is the largest
annual comprehensive survey of military and veteran families, providing
millions of data points to date. Data from the MFLS and other research
by Blue Star Families has been used at every level of government to
help inform those tasked with making policy decisions that impact our
military-connected communities.
Blue Star Families maintains a nationwide footprint through 13
strategically located chapters, offering both virtual and in-person
support to active-duty, Guard, Reserve, and veteran families. These
chapters serve as trusted local hubs--delivering innovative programs,
hosting community events, and providing essential services that foster
connection and belonging. By building bridges between military families
and their local neighbors, institutions, and community organizations,
we work to ensure that those who serve and their families are fully
integrated into the communities where they live.
The last 2 years marked a significant milestone in our efforts to
enhance the well-being of veteran and military families. Craig Newmark,
founder of Craigslist, demonstrated extraordinary leadership and
commitment by pledging $100 million to address urgent issues such as
mental health and suicide prevention, housing and homelessness, and
food insecurity. Blue Star Families is deeply honored to be among the
beneficiaries of Mr. Newmark's generosity, which includes a direct
investment in the establishment of three to five new chapters and 25
Blue Star Families Outposts.
These new outposts will buildupon our existing chapter
infrastructure and expand our reach into additional communities.
Through partnerships with local organizations, we will bring programs,
services, and trusted resources even closer to where veterans and
military families live. This expansion represents the power of public-
private collaboration to strengthen communities, improve mental health
outcomes, and create a more connected and resilient support network for
those who serve.
At Blue Star Families, we recognize that behind every data point
lies a deeply personal story. It is an honor to bring both evidence and
lived experience to this discussion as we examine veteran suicide
prevention and highlight the impact of our community-based initiative,
Blue Star Support Circles/Upstream Solutions to Crisis. Our work is
grounded in both rigorous data and the real-world voices of those
affected--and we believe both are essential to informing effective
policy solutions.
Veterans Transition Experiences
The enduring collaboration between Blue Star Families and IVMF over
the past decade has provided invaluable insights into the experiences
of military and veteran families. Our annual MFLS has served as a
powerful tool, unraveling the intricate tapestry of the transition and
post-service life for veterans and their families.
One consistent and sobering revelation from the survey is the
persistent challenge veterans face during their transition. In the most
recent 2024 MFLS, approximately half of the veteran respondents
described their overall transition as ``difficult'' or ``very
difficult.'' \1\ This statistic underscores the profound and complex
nature of the hurdles encountered by veterans as they navigate the
shift from military to civilian life.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Blue Star Families. 2025. ``2024 Military Family Lifestyle
Survey Comprehensive Report.'' https://bluestarfam.org/wp-content/
uploads/2025/02/BSF_MFLS24_Comp_Report_Full-v2.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Department of Defense's Transition Assistance Program (TAP) is
intended to serve as a foundational resource for service members as
they prepare to separate from military service and reintegrate into
civilian life. However, recent data indicates that TAP is underutilized
and inconsistently effective among the veteran population.
According to the 2024 Military Family Lifestyle Survey, only 28
percent of veteran respondents reported using TAP resources and finding
them helpful, while 23 percent reported using them but not finding them
helpful, and a notable 49 percent did not use TAP resources at all
during their transition.\2\ Under current DoD policy, service members
are eligible to begin TAP up to 12 months prior to separation, or up to
24 months prior to retirement, providing a meaningful window of
opportunity to prepare for civilian life.\3\ Despite this flexibility,
the low engagement rates suggest a need to improve both awareness and
relevance of the program to better meet the evolving needs of
transitioning service members and their families.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ Ibid
\3\ Vergun, David. 2023. ``Military Well Prepared for Civilian
Transition.'' U.S. Department of Defense. https://www.defense.gov/News/
News-Stories/Article/Article/3561651/military-well-prepared-for-
civilian-transition-official-says/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the actual timing of participation in TAP may vary among
service members, the VA strongly advocates for an early engagement with
the program. The rationale behind this encouragement lies in the belief
that early participation equips transitioning service members with the
necessary tools, information, and skills to make a successful and
smoother transition into civilian life.
Insights from our 2023 MFLS shed light on the perceived
preparedness of veterans for the military-to-civilian transition. We
found that when veteran respondents have more time to get ready to
separate from the military, they feel more prepared for a successful
transition. Yet retired veteran respondents generally report more time
to prepare than non-retired veterans with non-retired Veterans
reporting ``I did not or was not able to prepare for my transition.''
\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ Blue Star Families. 2024. ``2023 Military Family Lifestyle
Survey Comprehensive Report.'' https://bluestarfam.org/wp-content/
uploads/2025/05/BSF_MFLS_Comp_Report_Full_Digital.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Furthermore, a significant proportion of all veterans respondents,
regardless of retirement status, had ``less than a year before
separating'' despite the DoD and VA recommendations. Some of this may
be due to unit mission and staffing demands, but it is important to
consider from a sustainability perspective.
The quality of the military-to-civilian transition experience has a
measurable impact on how veterans perceive their service--and
critically, whether they would recommend military service to the next
generation. The 2023 MFLS revealed a statistically significant
difference in veterans' likelihood to recommend military service based
on their transition experience. Veterans who reported a smooth
transition were more likely to recommend service to a young person in
their family (M = 6.90, SD = 3.18, n = 766) compared to those who
experienced a difficult transition (M = 6.13, SD = 3.41, n = 1,080).\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ Ibid
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These findings illuminate the broader implications of transition
support--not only for individual well-being but also for the long-term
sustainability of the All-Volunteer Force. Improving the transition
experience may be a key factor in restoring confidence in military
service and strengthening future recruitment pipelines.
This underscores the importance of effective transition programs
and support mechanisms in not only facilitating a smoother shift to
civilian life, but also in influencing veterans' perceptions of the
overall value and benefits of military service. Early engagement with
programs like TAP could support a smoother transition for veterans. By
initiating the transition preparation process well in advance, veterans
may be better equipped with the knowledge, skills, and confidence
necessary to face the unique challenges associated with post-service
life and, in turn, contribute positively to the perception and
recommendation of military service to future generations.
Families' Experiences with Transition
The transition from military to civilian life is often framed as an
individual journey for the service member; however, in reality, the
entire family undergoes this transition. Military spouses and children
are deeply affected by the shift in structure, identity, and support
systems that accompany separation from service.
Findings from our 2024 MFLS highlight this reality, with more than
60 percent of respondents reporting that they experienced the military-
to-civilian transition as a military spouse.\6\ These spouses often
shoulder the emotional and logistical burden of the transition while
supporting their service member and managing the needs of the
household.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ Blue Star Families. 2025. ``2024 Military Family Lifestyle
Survey Comprehensive Report.'' https://bluestarfam.org/wp-content/
uploads/2025/02/BSF_MFLS24_Comp_Report_Full-v2.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moreover, additional research underscores the potential long-term
consequences of this transition on family well-being. Military spouses
who have undergone the transition have been shown to experience poorer
mental health outcomes and diminished family relationship quality over
time. Specifically, studies have identified increased symptoms of PTSD,
declines in marital satisfaction, and greater work-family conflict from
baseline to follow up.\7\ These outcomes suggest that the transition
process can introduce or exacerbate stressors that affect the entire
family unit--not just the service member.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\7\ Corry, Nida H., Rayan Joneydi, Hope S. McMaster, Christianna S.
Williams, Shirley Glynn, Christopher Spera, and Valerie A. Stander.
2022. ``Families Serve Too: Military Spouse Well-Being after Separation
from Active-Duty Service.'' Anxiety, Stress, & Coping 35 (5): 1-17.
https://doi.org/10.1080/10615806.2022.2038788.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Military spouses play a vital and often underrecognized role in
sustaining the well-being and stability of the military family unit,
particularly during and after the transition to civilian life. They
frequently serve as the primary caregivers for both children and
veterans--especially when physical injuries, psychological trauma, or
service-related health conditions are present. This caregiving role
becomes even more critical when veterans are managing the aftereffects
of combat exposure,\8\ which can introduce complex challenges such as
post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), depression, or chronic pain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\8\ Pflieger, Jacqueline C., Cynthia A. LeardMann, Hope S.
McMaster, Carrie J. Donoho, and Lyndon A. Riviere. 2018. ``The Impact
of Military and Nonmilitary Experiences on Marriage: Examining the
Military Spouse's Perspective.'' Journal of Traumatic Stress 31 (5):
719-29. https://doi.org/10.1002/jts.22321.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Families in which the service member has been exposed to combat are
significantly more likely to encounter difficulties during the
reintegration process. These difficulties may include strained family
relationships, disrupted communication, and an increased caregiving
burden for spouses, all of which can undermine long-term family
functioning and well-being.
Reintegration plays a foundational role in shaping how military
families adapt to life after service.\9\ The military-to-civilian
transition requires the renegotiation of roles, routines, and family
structures, as families shift away from the predictability and
institutional support of military life. The success of this transition
varies widely and is influenced by how effectively each family member--
particularly the spouse--adapts to these new demands and
responsibilities.\10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\9\ O'Neal, Catherine Walker, and Justin A. Lavner. 2021.
``Military-Related Stress and Family Well-Being among Active Duty Army
Families.'' Family Relations 70 (4). https://doi.org/10.1111/
fare.12561.
\10\ Elnitsky, Christine A., Cara L. Blevins, Michael P. Fisher,
and Kathryn Magruder. 2017. ``Military Service Member and Veteran
Reintegration: A Critical Review and Adapted Ecological Model.''
American Journal of Orthopsychiatry 87 (2): 114-28. https://doi.org/
10.1037/ort0000244.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
While the health and well-being of spouses play a critical role in
the successful transition of service members, many spousal support
services are discontinued at the point of separation--precisely when
families may need them most.\11\ Although TAP resources are technically
available to spouses, they are often insufficiently marketed or
tailored to their unique needs.\12\ This gap in outreach and support
leaves many spouses underprepared for the challenges of military-to-
civilian transition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\11\ Graham, Emily. 2024. ``The US Military Does Not Adequately
Prepare Members for Transition from Service.'' https://surface.syr.edu/
cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1251&context=lerner
\12\ Ibid
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These findings reinforce the need for holistic transition support
strategies that include spouses and family members--not only as
caregivers, but as individuals with their own unique transition-related
needs. Recognizing and addressing the unique role of military spouses
and the broader family unit is essential to a comprehensive approach to
transition support. A successful transition is not solely defined by
the veteran's employment or benefits access, but also by the family's
ability to remain connected, stable, and supported as they navigate the
shift to civilian life.
Family Support Circles Transition Together
Throughout TAP training, the potential psychological impacts of
transitioning from military to civilian life are largely
overlooked.\13\ Many service members report a profound sense of loss--
of family, community, and purpose--following military separation.\14\
However, TAP often approaches transition as a career shift rather than
a transformation of identity, leaving veterans underprepared for the
emotional challenges that may arise.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\13\ Ibid
\14\ Ibid
\15\ Ibid
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
During the separation process, veterans and their families
consistently report feeling overwhelmed and stressed, despite the
availability of numerous resources.\16\, \17\ A primary
challenge lies in identifying their specific needs and navigating the
complex landscape of programs and organizations to find appropriate
support.\18\
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\16\ Wounded Warrior Project. 2025. ``Strategies for a Smoother
Transition from Military Service.'' https://
newsroom.woundedwarriorproject.org/Strategies-for-a-Smoother-
Transition-from-Military-Service
\17\ Markowitz, Fred E., Sara Kintzle, and Carl A. Castro. 2022.
``Military-To-Civilian Transition Strains and Risky Behavior among
Post-9/11 Veterans.'' Military Psychology 35 (1): 1-12. https://
doi.org/10.1080/08995605.2022.2065177.
\18\ Kleykamp, Meredith, Jeffrey B Wenger, Elizabeth Hastings Roer,
Matthew Kubasak, and Travis Hubble. 2024. ``Federal Programs to Assist
Military-To-Civilian Employment Transitions.'' RAND. https://
www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA1363-12.html.
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In the 2024 MFLS, veteran respondents identified ``discussions with
peers''--including conversations with colleagues, neighbors, and
friends--as one of the most frequently used and effective methods for
seeking and obtaining information about available resources with 42
percent reporting this method was helpful.\19\
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\19\ Blue Star Families. 2025. ``2024 Military Family Lifestyle
Survey Comprehensive Report.'' https://bluestarfam.org/wp-content/
uploads/2025/02/BSF_MFLS24_Comp_Report_Full-v2.pdf
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In addition to understanding which resources are utilized during
the military-to-civilian transition, it is equally important to examine
how those resources are discovered. Among veteran respondents who
reported using resources during separation (n=610), the majority (54
percent) indicated that they identified these resources through peer-
to-peer interactions, underscoring the critical role of informal
networks in facilitating access to support services.\20\
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\20\ Ibid
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Given the clear gap in emotional, psychological, and overall family
support during the transition process--and the demonstrated value of
peer-to-peer connections--there is a critical need for programs that
center community, identity, and shared experience. Blue Star Families'
Family Support Circles Transition Together program directly addresses
this need by offering structured, peer-based support for families
navigating the military-to-civilian transition. This innovative
initiative recognizes that the transition is not just a professional
shift, but a profound personal and familial transformation. By
equipping participants with psychoeducation, peer connection, and
practical tools, the program provides an upstream, community-rooted
model that complements TAP and strengthens the overall transition
ecosystem.
Core Components of the Program
Family Transition Workshops
As part of a comprehensive approach to military-to-civilian
transition, Family Transition Workshops can offer vital support to
service members and their families by fostering emotional wellness,
strengthening interpersonal dynamics, and encouraging a proactive
outlook on civilian life. These workshops could include the following
core components:
Mindfulness and Stress Management: Introduce evidence-
based techniques such as deep breathing, meditation, and progressive
muscle relaxation to help families reduce stress and manage the
emotional uncertainty that often accompanies transition.
Strengthening Communication: Provide practical exercises
aimed at enhancing communication among spouses and family members.
These sessions help cultivate empathy, patience, and understanding as
familial roles and expectations evolve post-service.
Goal Setting and Vision Building: Support families in
identifying and articulating shared goals for their civilian lives.
This may include developing a ``family mission statement'' to promote
unity, purpose, and a positive forward-looking perspective.
These workshops reflect an upstream, family-centered model that
acknowledges the broader impact of transition and empowers military
families to navigate change with confidence and resilience.
Peer Support Groups
Peer support groups are a vital component of promoting mental
health, fostering resilience, and enhancing social integration during
the military-to-civilian transition. These groups--organized separately
for service members, spouses, and children--create safe, inclusive
environments where participants can share experiences, express
concerns, and receive guidance from trained peer facilitators. Tailored
group sessions may include:
Managing Role Changes: Assist spouses in navigating
evolving family dynamics and responsibilities as the service member
reintegrates into the home, helping to reduce tension and promote
stability.
Building New Routines: Provide practical strategies and
peer-driven insights on creating consistent daily routines that reflect
new employment, education, or community schedules--strengthening a
sense of predictability and support across the household.
Coping with Change: Equip children and adolescents with
age-appropriate tools to process and adapt to the changes associated
with a parent's separation from service, ensuring their emotional well-
being is not overlooked.
By leveraging the power of shared experience and trusted peer
connections, these groups serve as a critical supplement to formal
services, addressing the emotional and relational dimensions of
transition often missed in traditional programs.
Community-Building Activities
The loss of established social networks following separation from
military service can lead to feelings of isolation for both service
members and their families. To address this challenge, community-
building activities are essential for fostering connection, belonging,
and resilience during the transition to civilian life. Suggested
initiatives include:
Social Events and Family Outings: Organize family
friendly outdoor experiences and community gatherings to encourage
exploration, recreation, and bonding. Initiatives such as ``outdoor
adventure boxes'' can promote accessible engagement with nature, while
community service projects create opportunities for families to connect
with neighbors and strengthen local ties through shared purpose.
Buddy Program: Establish a peer mentorship initiative
that pairs transitioning families with those who have successfully
navigated the shift to civilian life. This informal model provides
practical guidance and emotional support, helping families build
confidence and connection through shared lived experience.
These community-based efforts promote social integration and reduce
the sense of disconnection that often accompanies transition,
reinforcing the importance of relational support as a core component of
successful reintegration.
Resource Navigation Hub--Blue Star Neighborhood
One of the persistent challenges facing families after separation
from military service is the lack of awareness and access to available
resources. To address this gap, the Blue Star Neighborhood would serve
as a centralized Resource Navigation Hub, offering streamlined access
to nonclinical wellness tools, practical support, and community
connections. Key components of the program include:
Digital Resource Portal: A user-friendly, centralized
platform where families can access a wide range of resources,
including:
Financial planning tools to support long-term
stability.
Employment workshops and webinars to assist with
career transitions.
Continuing education opportunities for spouses and
veterans.
Self-care resources, including toolkits that promote
holistic wellness through exercise, nutrition, and sleep
hygiene
Community Support Networks: The Neighborhood would also
help families locate and engage with local veteran-serving
organizations, recreational activities, and community groups--
strengthening social ties and fostering a sense of belonging in their
new civilian environments.
By consolidating critical information and reducing the complexity
of navigating post-service life, this model empowers military families
to access the tools and support they need to thrive.
The military-to-civilian transition is one of the most critical--
and vulnerable--periods in the life of a military family. While
existing programs like TAP provide important career-focused resources,
they often fall short in addressing the emotional, relational, and
identity-based challenges that service members and their families face
during this time. As our research and experience show, families are not
just passive observers of transition--they are active participants who
also carry the weight of change.
Blue Star Families' Family Support Circles Transition Together
program fills a crucial gap by offering a comprehensive, upstream
approach rooted in community, peer connection, and proactive wellness.
Through family transition workshops, peer support groups, community-
building activities, and a centralized resource navigation hub, this
program meets families where they are--emotionally, socially, and
geographically.
We urge Congress to act this year to improve the Transition
Assistance Program (TAP) by formally including families as a core part
of the transition process. Successful reintegration is not solely about
securing employment or accessing benefits--it is about strengthening
family resilience, preventing isolation, and ensuring the long-term
well-being of those who have served and the loved ones who have served
alongside them. By modernizing TAP to be family centered, Congress has
the opportunity to make a lasting investment in the health, stability,
and continued success of our veteran families.
On behalf of Blue Star Families and the communities we serve, thank
you for your commitment to bridging the gap and ensuring that every
veteran and their family has access to the resources, support, and hope
they need to thrive.
Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished Members of
the Committee, thank you once again for the opportunity to share the
work and insights of Blue Star Families in support of our Nation's
veterans and their families.
Document for the Record Submitted by Derrick Van Orden
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and U.S. Department of Defense
Memorandum of Understanding
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statements of Clearinghouse for Military Family Readiness at
Penn State (Clearinghouse)
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[all]